# The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread



## Retreater

Sometimes a thread comes up, and I really want to post in it, but my thought is just a negative comment or a way to criticize someone else's fun. And really, we have enough negativity in this world right now. 
Maybe this is a dumb idea, maybe it doesn't belong on this site, but I just wanted to create a thread to say I didn't comment in another thread with a negative post. But I am typing something, and that makes me feel better. 
It's been a hard few months, and I tend towards negative posts on this site. 
But I didn't post a negative comment, and that makes me feel better. My negativity can stay here in this thread, and it can hold your negativity too if you want. We can let people have their fun while misery is safely in this thread. 
So feel free, if at any time you want to post something negative in another thread, maybe just come here and post something else?


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## aco175

I didn't post something in the Dice to support Black Lives Matter thread from a few days ago.  I was going to talk about some things I had seen about the group and weather or not I could support that, but figured it would be shouted down by people calling me racist and such.  That, and this site is more about D&D to me and not politics so I guess I could go elsewhere to find that.  It still bothers me though that I think I would be called things for asking questions.


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## Lem23

aco175 said:


> I didn't post something in the Dice to support Black Lives Matter thread from a few days ago.  I was going to talk about some things I had seen about the group and weather or not I could support that, but figured it would be shouted down by people calling me racist and such.  That, and this site is more about D&D to me and not politics so I guess I could go elsewhere to find that.  It still bothers me though that I think I would be called things for asking questions.




I think the intent of this thread is that instead of saying what you were going to say, you say something different that doesn't cause any arguments etc. Stating that you'd like to say something but won't because you know it'll be called racist is just weasel word dog whistling, and all it does is move the argument from one thread (the BLM one) to a different one (this one). Especially since you were the one to start the BLM dice thread.

I think Morrus' words in the BM thread are probably relevant here, so will quote them again for you: 

"I'll add in advance that if anybody finds it necessary to complain about how hearing about somebody raising money for a charity is infringing on_ them_ in some way, probably best they find somewhere else to say that."


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## Umbran

aco175 said:


> I was going to talk about some things I had seen about the group and weather or not I could support that




*Mod Note:*
Sorry, but this isn't the site to discuss the details of the BLM organization.  If you are looking for such, it'll have to be elsewhere.



Lem23 said:


> ... is just weasel word dog whistling...





If you have an issue with a post, please report it and walk away.

This kind of accusation serves no good purpose.  If they are purposefully acting badly, they now know you can be baited.  If they were not, they are now angry at you and have learned nothing useful, because you have used all the tact of Oscar the Grouch.

Either engage with folks with respect, or don't engage at all.  Thanks.


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## the Jester

Retreater said:


> Maybe this is a dumb idea, maybe it doesn't belong on this site, but I just wanted to create a thread to say I didn't comment in another thread with a negative post. But I am typing something, and that makes me feel better.
> 
> ... snip...
> 
> So feel free, if at any time you want to post something negative in another thread, maybe just come here and post something else?




I think that this is a wonderful idea, and I thank you for contributing to positivity on ENWorld.


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## aco175

Retreater said:


> I didn't comment in another thread with a negative post. But I am typing something, and that makes me feel better.



I see that I cannot even say that I was going to say something.  Maybe we should just stick to gaming then.  Did not make me feel better though, but maybe good thread for others.


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## Janx

aco175 said:


> I see that I cannot even say that I was going to say something.  Maybe we should just stick to gaming then.  Did not make me feel better though, but maybe good thread for others.



you can, but you may want to leave of WHY or WHERE you didn't post.

I did not post in a thread about a subject I am not interested in.


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## Hatmatter

Nice idea for a thread, thank you, Retreater. 

If I gave myself over to knee-jerk reactions, I would probably post ten times more than I do. I learned a long time ago, though, to merely comment when there is an idea I can support or if I can gently suggest some latent positive elements in a post. I subscribe to the notion of adding one's voice to the positive and ignoring the negative, unless it is outright oppression, but that would be irrelevant to the Enworld forum. 

And, in reference to Retreaters's original post, a day or two later, I have always felt good about doing this. I cannot recall ever regretting not posting something negative. There is an inherent creation of positive energy in self-restraint.


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## Xaelvaen

Retreater said:


> Sometimes a thread comes up, and I really want to post in it, but my thought is just a negative comment or a way to criticize someone else's fun. And really, we have enough negativity in this world right now.
> Maybe this is a dumb idea, maybe it doesn't belong on this site, but I just wanted to create a thread to say I didn't comment in another thread with a negative post. But I am typing something, and that makes me feel better.
> It's been a hard few months, and I tend towards negative posts on this site.
> But I didn't post a negative comment, and that makes me feel better. My negativity can stay here in this thread, and it can hold your negativity too if you want. We can let people have their fun while misery is safely in this thread.
> So feel free, if at any time you want to post something negative in another thread, maybe just come here and post something else?




A long time before Monte Cook launched Numenera, I followed his blog.  He went through a period of time where he was so absolutely sick of all the negativity on the internet.  This was well before the super explosion of politics and all that extra negativity - just the general negativity the internet can bring, so let me be clear I just mean the typical meanness of negativity.  One day he had a post where he was going to try to go "Purely Positive" on the internet.

It has been a few years since I read his post from way back then, but it stuck with me.  I try to -always- be positive on the internet, but it gets so hard sometimes.  For all the times I've typed a well-worded reply into the chat box, and then deleted it and just logged out - this reply is for those wasted moments, breath, and eloquent thought.


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## Hatmatter

Xaelvaen said:


> A long time before Monte Cook launched Numenera, I followed his blog.  He went through a period of time where he was so absolutely sick of all the negativity on the internet.  This was well before the super explosion of politics and all that extra negativity - just the general negativity the internet can bring, so let me be clear I just mean the typical meanness of negativity.  One day he had a post where he was going to try to go "Purely Positive" on the internet.
> 
> It has been a few years since I read his post from way back then, but it stuck with me.  I try to -always- be positive on the internet, but it gets so hard sometimes.  For all the times I've typed a well-worded reply into the chat box, and then deleted it and just logged out - this reply is for those wasted moments, breath, and eloquent thought.




You may have done well during those moments, Xaelvaen. I think there is rarely anything that can be said to negativity; silence is often the greatest response. People are struggling with many diverse personal demons and sometimes they want to goad people into some kind of response just so that they can feel alive. Silence is the best solution. 

Of course, if one is face-to-face with someone, compassion can be expressed in other ways. But, online, silence such as you have exhibited in the past is wise.


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## Eyes of Nine

I like the purpose of this thread. Hopefully it will be used as intended. 

Currently, I have nothing negative to say about any other threads. But if I DO, I'll know where to go...


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## Retreater

Feeling a little  disappointed but I am not going to comment elsewhere. Just going to post here and say that I hope everyone is having a good day and maybe you will get some gaming enjoyment this weekend.


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## Xaelvaen

Retreater said:


> Feeling a little  disappointed but I am not going to comment elsewhere. Just going to post here and say that I hope everyone is having a good day and maybe you will get some gaming enjoyment this weekend.




Well, the benefit of this thread could also be to talk to fellow gamers on a more personal level.  Whatever the cause of your disappointment, feel free to Direct Message me here.  Can't say whether or not I can help, but happy to listen.


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## Eltab

I've had the unusual experience of composing a really good biting retort to some inflammatory thread ... and a moderator closes the thread while I am one-finger-pecking my way through the text.  (I type with one finger on mobile devices, four fingers plus a thumb on keyboards.)
It's like Providence or Fortune or something was protecting me from my worst impulses.


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## Eyes of Nine

Today I learned alot about individual EnWorlders by seeing what they liked and what they didn't in a thread. I am really disappointed in some of those folks. And really glad the other folks are here because they are saying stuff a lot more eloquently and with more knowledge than I can.


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## Tonguez

I really dont see the point of a thread in which I dont say what I didnt say because it wasnt the right thing to say the other time when I didnt say it


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## Deset Gled

Tonguez said:


> I really dont see the point of a thread in which I dont say what I didnt say because it wasnt the right thing to say the other time when I didnt say it




If you don't see the point of a thread, why post in it?


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## Tonguez

Deset Gled said:


> If you don't see the point of a thread, why post in it?



I thought that was the point


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## Hatmatter

Eltab said:


> I've had the unusual experience of composing a really good biting retort to some inflammatory thread ... and a moderator closes the thread while I am one-finger-pecking my way through the text.  (I type with one finger on mobile devices, four fingers plus a thumb on keyboards.)
> It's like Providence or Fortune or something was protecting me from my worst impulses.



Yes, you were blessed man. We don't need to respond to inflammatory statements online. We should stand against evil in person, of course, but 9 times out of 10, responding online just perpetuates anger. So, congratulations!


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## Hatmatter

Tonguez said:


> I really dont see the point of a thread in which I dont say what I didnt say because it wasnt the right thing to say the other time when I didnt say it



When someone responds to a post out of anger or spite in a knee-jerk fashion, there is a brief, transitory experience of pleasure. The pleasure of self-righteousness or giving in to anger, or whatever. Some people really get off on it. 

If one instead, posts here and others commend him or her for it, the person then receives the pleasure of affirmation from peers without becoming part of the general negativity that infects anonymous online sites of communication. It can be a means of replacing one (pernicious) "hit" with another (virtuous) hit.


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## Asisreo

When me and my friends get in a debate, we get going something fierce but it's all in fun because we know each other and can tell when we're joking. Sometimes, it leaks into my typing and I can't tell you how many times I've had to backspace entire paragraphs. 

What sucks the most is when there's something that's a matter of opinion like which TTRPG is better or something. I know there's no end in sight to actually finishing the "debate" but I'm usually passionate about some stuff that I put alot of work into, some of which is game design. 

I'll use this thread to call the majority of these forum posters out: 

You don't know jack-squat about game design and much of what you imagine is wrong with your system is just a matter of designing something that fits a design goal. You'll never have fun playing a star wars TTRPG if your least favorite genre is sci-fi. If you don't want magic in your games, play a TTRPG without magic. Game designers work extremely hard working with complex game theories in order to maximize a fun experience within their games. Some games aren't fun, true, but I see complaints about designs that are brilliant if they knew how the designs worked. 

A GM complained that our characters were too squishy in CoC because he wanted to play an action-mystery or something. I wanted to slam my head on the table. 

So yeah, you'll notice I bring up that something isn't as good or (more likely) bad as it appears because the design and how it meshes with a character, system, setting, and player can really change how it's percieved.


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## Sabathius42

aco175 said:


> I see that I cannot even say that I was going to say something.  Maybe we should just stick to gaming then.  Did not make me feel better though, but maybe good thread for others.



Feel bad for you, Aco.  You didn't get a curteous ear like you should have, and I think the way you were treated is a poor look for the boards.


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## Snarf Zagyg

Tonguez said:


> I really dont see the point of a thread in which I dont say what I didnt say because it wasnt the right thing to say the other time when I didnt say it




I have often regretted the things that I have posted.

I have never regretted the things I have not.

It's a lesson you think I would have learned by now, and yet, here I am. Obviously, the lesson is not well-known, as the continued existence of twitter exemplifies.


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## Xaelvaen

There's a particular thread as of late (not naming names, as is the theme of this thread)... I just can't even.  So much fury, fire, and passion.  Keeping quiet.  Letting it all die right here.  *(Fiery Bubble)* <- Right there is where it shall forever stay.


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## Levistus's_Leviathan

Xaelvaen said:


> There's a particular thread as of late (not naming names, as is the theme of this thread)... I just can't even.  So much fury, fire, and passion.  Keeping quiet.  Letting it all die right here.  *(Fiery Bubble)* <- Right there is where it shall forever stay.



Yeah, I know what thread you mean. I commented on it, and am glad that I did, but there's a lot of stuff going on.


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## Cadence

(about numerous threads on different topics over a month)

I kind of wish there was a real world way to look into alternate worlds, to see where potential role-playing group members had been regular posters on a board like this...   Because in some cases I would just have to leave the room for a bit mid-game to save myself from the lack of ability to edit words once they were in the air, instead of just on a screen.


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## Janx

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have often regretted the things that I have posted.
> 
> I have never regretted the things I have not.
> 
> It's a lesson you think I would have learned by now, and yet, here I am. Obviously, the lesson is not well-known, as the continued existence of twitter exemplifies.



I sometimes wonder if we are better served by not talking to each other.  Which is of course, ridiculous. But then, there'd be fewer arguments, if nobody spoke to begin with.


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## Deset Gled

Janx said:


> I sometimes wonder if we are better served by not talking to each other.  Which is of course, ridiculous. But then, there'd be fewer arguments, if nobody spoke to begin with.




I am convinced that there are some people and ideas that are served best by just the right amount of talking.  In real life, these people are often held in place by the constraints of actual conversation.  On the internet, sometimes they just keep posting forever.


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## Retreater

One of my problems IRL is that I'll keep talking without reading the room. I'll step on toes, offend people, and come across as a know-it-all. Too much time in the DM seat has made me think that I need to try to lead discussions.


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## Snarf Zagyg

Janx said:


> I sometimes wonder if we are better served by not talking to each other.  Which is of course, ridiculous. But then, there'd be fewer arguments, if nobody spoke to begin with.




Better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to go on twitter and remove all doubt.


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## Janx

Deset Gled said:


> I am convinced that there are some people and ideas that are served best by just the right amount of talking.  In real life, these people are often held in place by the constraints of actual conversation.  On the internet, sometimes they just keep posting forever.



Yup.  I try to realize if I'm re-replying with basically the same thing I already said.  Once the conversation has looped, it's time to stop, they haven't gotten my point and likely won't.

or if I wrote a long reply.  Good sign that I wasted my time, and I delete it without posting which is a smaller waste of my time and none of the blowback.

I've got to reach the next stage of not replying or posting to achieve Nullvana.


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## Levistus's_Leviathan

Retreater said:


> One of my problems IRL is that I'll keep talking without reading the room. I'll step on toes, offend people, and come across as a know-it-all. Too much time in the DM seat has made me think that I need to try to lead discussions.



I do that. I have autism, and don't have great social skills (reading the room, gestures, etc), which makes it difficult to communicate in person. I prefer communicating online, because it's easier for me to get my point across through text than speech.


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## Ryujin

Many comments in many threads, that I haven't made.

Start responding to someone. Drift into political, religious, or other taboo territory. < CTRL > + A. Del. Move on.


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## Eyes of Nine

Ryujin said:


> Many comments in many threads, that I haven't made.
> 
> Start responding to someone. Drift into political, religious, or other taboo territory. < CTRL > + A. Del. Move on.



What's sad is this forum software keeps your response in that thread unless you clear cookies... At least it does for me.


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## Umbran

Eyes of Nine said:


> What's sad is this forum software keeps your response in that thread unless you clear cookies... At least it does for me.




Yeah.  I intend to talk to Morrus about that one.  The written-but-not-posted post should at least clear when you close the browser session.


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## Levistus's_Leviathan

Umbran said:


> Yeah.  I intend to talk to Morrus about that one.  The written-but-not-posted post should at least clear when you close the browser session.



I would appreciate this change. It often is annoying when attempting to write multiple responses in the same thread, and other situations.


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## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Yeah.  I intend to talk to Morrus about that one.  The written-but-not-posted post should at least clear when you close the browser session.




A "cancel" button would be nice.


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## Istbor

I really had a big post planned for the Recommendation of a cheap laptop thread. But I stopped when I realized it just summed up to one sentence.

I don't recommend a PC for anything beyond mail-checking and browsing under $600. Every personal and professional experience says, it just isn't worth it to cut corners like that on a computer. Also having knowledge about the quality of the parts used in those cheaper commercial units, and the ever growing resources needed for OS and software. Not to mention the bloatware that can accompany those devices. 

I didn't want to thread crap though. Sigh.


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## Deset Gled

Istbor said:


> I really had a big post planned for the Recommendation of a cheap laptop thread. But I stopped when I realized it just summed up to one sentence.
> 
> I don't recommend a PC for anything beyond mail-checking and browsing under $600. Every personal and professional experience says, it just isn't worth it to cut corners like that on a computer. Also having knowledge about the quality of the parts used in those cheaper commercial units, and the ever growing resources needed for OS and software. Not to mention the bloatware that can accompany those devices.
> 
> I didn't want to thread crap though. Sigh.





Good call.  I totally would have debated you on that.  OTOH, if you feel up to starting a new thread I'm happy to have a friendly go at it


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## Istbor

Deset Gled said:


> Good call.  I totally would have debated you on that.  OTOH, if you feel up to starting a new thread I'm happy to have a friendly go at it




Nah I am good. The other underlying reason is that I do enough computer hardware and performance discussion at work.


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## Lanefan

To avoid the potential endless loop of starting another "I didn't comment in another thread" thread to point out that I didn't comment in this one, I'll just comment in this one here and now and get it over with....


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## Umbran

Lanefan said:


> To avoid the potential endless loop ....




Dude, you're three steps into the loop of meta instead...


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## DeviousQuail

I wanted to post something in the "Is Intimidation the worst skill in the game?" thread but I couldn't do it. I saw a lot of ideas that I thought were good and a lot of ideas that were... not. I've tried using a different set of skills than standard 5e for "social" checks and while it's early days I think it's way better. But that's only at my table with my players. It appeals to my preferred balance of roleplay, simulation, and game mechanics. I didn't want to argue it's finer points or tell others why I thought their ideas were bad. Normally, I can do that and have a discussion. But it turns out this discussion triggers my irrational anger and I decided to just leave it be.


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## Lanefan

Umbran said:


> Dude, you're three steps into the loop of meta instead...



"Three Steps Into the Loop" - sounds like either a band name or, more likely, the name of some hipster craft beer that nobody actually drinks but lots of people profess to like.


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## Retreater

Lanefan said:


> To avoid the potential endless loop of starting another "I didn't comment in another thread" thread to point out that I didn't comment in this one, I'll just comment in this one here and now and get it over with....



No need to do that. This is the thread to post in whenever you don't post in another thread.
Now if only we can get all the "announcing announcements" posts to come this way...


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## Umbran

Lanefan said:


> "Three Steps Into the Loop" - sounds like either a band name or, more likely, the name of some hipster craft beer that nobody actually drinks but lots of people profess to like.




Or, a reference to _Tales from the Loop_...


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## Lanefan

Umbran said:


> Or, a reference to _Tales from the Loop_...



Which, if so, would be completely lost on me...


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## Umbran

Lanefan said:


> Which, if so, would be completely lost on me...




That's okay.  The show was... sullen.  Well made, but sullen.


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## Cadence

Edit: I thought better of what I originally typed.  But wow, there is no reason the person I'm typing about deserves not to be nuked.


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## Morrus

Umbran said:


> Yeah.  I intend to talk to Morrus about that one.  The written-but-not-posted post should at least clear when you close the browser session.



I don’t think it’s something I have the ability to change.


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## Cadence

How much time does it take to read one of the shorter Lankhmar or Conan stories?


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## Cadence

It really feels like this could be a battle of two immovable forces (Blob v. Blob instead of Blob v. Juggernaut) with only a few little pushes to keep it going...  :::sigh:::


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## billd91

Sometimes a thread just becomes Pedantry Rising and you have to dodge away.


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## Cadence

billd91 said:


> Sometimes a thread just becomes Pedantry Rising and you have to dodge away.




It's so hard not to look at the accident at the side of the road as you drive by though...


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## Cadence

It really is ok to actually read the words people typed before replying.


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## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> It really is ok to actually read the words people typed before replying.




If you read what the other person wrote, it might get in the way of the VERY IMPORTANT POINT you have to make.


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## Eltab

Cadence said:


> It's so hard not to look at the accident at the side of the road as you drive by though...



Speak for yourself - I don't want to rear-end the guy rubbernecking ahead of me and get blamed for the whole combined accident !


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## Cadence

Three unconstructive posts in the first two pages of a thread.  It really is ok to just shut up if you're not even going to try to be useful.  (Or, come here and vent once in a while).   Ditto to someone else having to say folks can just move on after they obviously can't themselves.    And get better glasses?  WTF!?

Seriously, a boatload of us apparently need a vacation to recharge whatever item usually raises the CHR rolls from critical failure to just abrasive.


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## Retreater

This week I've written 4 posts and deleted them before posting. They weren't going to add much, and would probably have just drawn the ire of mods. Maybe my perspective has changed or maybe there's less tolerance here for disagreement. But, yeah, I'm going to be posting less on here. Just seems less friendly these days when even the mods assume you're coming from a place of bad intent with your fellow gamers.


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## payn

Retreater said:


> This week I've written 4 posts and deleted them before posting. They weren't going to add much, and would probably have just drawn the ire of mods. Maybe my perspective has changed or maybe there's less tolerance here for disagreement. But, yeah, I'm going to be posting less on here. Just seems less friendly these days when even the mods assume you're coming from a place of bad intent with your fellow gamers.



I've noticed a lot of common discussions seem to turn into conscientious civil wars. I dont really get the animosity thats been going around lately. Maybe, its a cycle, maybe, it's the pandemic, but it always seems to fade back into normalcy sooner or later. Perhaps a short break for a bit to refresh your interest in discussions is in order?


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## Levistus's_Leviathan

payn said:


> I've noticed a lot of common discussions seem to turn into conscientious civil wars. I dont really get the animosity thats been going around lately. Maybe, its a cycle, maybe, it's the pandemic, but it always seems to fade back into normalcy sooner or later. Perhaps a short break for a bit to refresh your interest in discussions is in order?



I'm asking as a relative newcomer to this site (I've only been around for a year or so), is it always like this on this site? I know the internet tends to get nasty the longer a thread goes on, and the mods generally tend to do a good job at shutting down threads before they erupt into all-out flame wars, but has it been this bad forever, or has the pandemic been making it this bad? I like participating in threads on this site (if I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here), but there does seem to be a lot of toxicity from my limited experience here.


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## Morrus

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm asking as a relative newcomer to this site (I've only been around for a year or so), is it always like this on this site? I know the internet tends to get nasty the longer a thread goes on, and the mods generally tend to do a good job at shutting down threads before they erupt into all-out flame wars, but has it been this bad forever, or has the pandemic been making it this bad? I like participating in threads on this site (if I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here), but there does seem to be a lot of toxicity from my limited experience here.



There have been societal tensions and cultural wars in greater society, especially in the US, in the last few years which spill over into places like this. We do our best to keep it calm, and stay on the side of right, but it’s on ongoing battle.

At least it isn’t as bad as Twitter!


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## Levistus's_Leviathan

Morrus said:


> There have been societal tensions and cultural wars in greater society, especially in the US, in the last few years which spill over into places like this. We do our best to keep it calm, and stay on the side of right, but it’s on ongoing battle.



That's what my assumption was. Things have been bad lately in general, so I assumed it was that spilling onto this site. 


Morrus said:


> At least it isn’t as bad as Twitter!



Heh. Not many people can claim to be worse than Twitter.


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## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm asking as a relative newcomer to this site (I've only been around for a year or so), is it always like this on this site? I know the internet tends to get nasty the longer a thread goes on, and the mods generally tend to do a good job at shutting down threads before they erupt into all-out flame wars, but has it been this bad forever, or has the pandemic been making it this bad? I like participating in threads on this site (if I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here), but there does seem to be a lot of toxicity from my limited experience here.



I think its a cycle. Things were awesome here pre-2008 and the E-war made it pretty flammable around here for a few years. Things calmed down, but then the NEXT playtest came around and it got hot again. Then, it was all good. Now, I cant point to any particular current event or topic, it just seems like folks have come to fight and die on every hill over opinions. I'm guessing it will pass eventually like it always does.


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## Snarf Zagyg

Morrus said:


> At least it isn’t as bad as Twitter!



“Each day on twitter there is one main character. The goal is to never be it.”

-Maple Cocaine


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## AnotherGuy

Serenity Now!

Thank Kagyar for the ignore thread feature.


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## Asisreo

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm asking as a relative newcomer to this site (I've only been around for a year or so), is it always like this on this site? I know the internet tends to get nasty the longer a thread goes on, and the mods generally tend to do a good job at shutting down threads before they erupt into all-out flame wars, but has it been this bad forever, or has the pandemic been making it this bad? I like participating in threads on this site (if I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here), but there does seem to be a lot of toxicity from my limited experience here.



Internet is awful about this stuff due to anonymity. I sometimes have opinions about the game that are extremely unpopular so I sometimes get hit with negativity that makes me need to leave the site for some fresh air. 

Remember, its not okay to be rude with your internet associates even when you're "right."


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## Ryujin

Asisreo said:


> Internet is awful about this stuff due to anonymity. I sometimes have opinions about the game that are extremely unpopular so I sometimes get hit with negativity that makes me need to leave the site for some fresh air.
> 
> Remember, its not okay to be rude with your internet associates even when you're "right."



"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde

In other words the way that someone speaks to you, when there is no possible consequence to that speech, is who the person really is.


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## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde




Oversimplified.  Each person is a multitude - in each context, we are who we really are.


----------



## Istbor

Ryujin said:


> "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
> 
> In other words the way that someone speaks to you, when there is no possible consequence to that speech, is who the person really is.



Pretty true. I am generally nice, but can be far more blunt or snarky about things over the internet. 

However, I think it can also happen when you have to keep that stuff in when doing your job. And when you are stuck at your home, and going to work mostly for over a year, things can begin to spill over.

I think just the general atmosphere of the world is starting to make everyone itchy. Even an introvert like me is beginning to see the limits of that added stress. I am often reminded of when I worked for a phone/ISP company for a couple years. Those became the angriest years of my life. I like helping others. However when both sides of the coin are pushing on you, helping becomes an afterthought. You have the business trying to squeeze as much work out of you as they can for what little they provide in payment, and customers are as you would expect when something is broken. Upset, and frustrated. Being there everyday for a couple of years really starts to affect you. I would get done and be basically unable to talk to anyone for fear that I would explode. 

So I have see what stress can do to me, and I am pretty mild mannered. I am sure there are others going through similar things, and when you get like that, everything, every pass time, starts to look like a battlefield, especially when what makes you feel relaxed may seem under attack.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Oversimplified.  Each person is a multitude - in each context, we are who we really are.



Aphorisms are over-simplified. Thanks for the news update


----------



## Ryujin

Istbor said:


> Pretty true. I am generally nice, but can be far more blunt or snarky about things over the internet.
> 
> However, I think it can also happen when you have to keep that stuff in when doing your job. And when you are stuck at your home, and going to work mostly for over a year, things can begin to spill over.
> 
> I think just the general atmosphere of the world is starting to make everyone itchy. Even an introvert like me is beginning to see the limits of that added stress. I am often reminded of when I worked for a phone/ISP company for a couple years. Those became the angriest years of my life. I like helping others. However when both sides of the coin are pushing on you, helping becomes an afterthought. You have the business trying to squeeze as much work out of you as they can for what little they provide in payment, and customers are as you would expect when something is broken. Upset, and frustrated. Being there everyday for a couple of years really starts to affect you. I would get done and be basically unable to talk to anyone for fear that I would explode.
> 
> So I have see what stress can do to me, and I am pretty mild mannered. I am sure there are others going through similar things, and when you get like that, everything, every pass time, starts to look like a battlefield, especially when what makes you feel relaxed may seem under attack.



That last bit may be the most pertinent. Stressors can put you in a frame of mind, in which you're more likely to misinterpret what someone is trying to say. Add to that the fact that text is a very poor medium for concisely conveying emotion, sarcasm, etc. and you have a potential powder keg. I try to first ask myself if I would say what I said to someone if they were standing right in front of me, before committing to the < ENTER > key. The obvious inference being that I'm asking myself if the listener would hand me my own teeth for saying it. Yes, I can be an arse (see above response), but not typically one that people would lay a beat-down on because of it as a result.


----------



## Eltab

Morrus said:


> At least it isn’t as bad as Twitter!



That's ... not exactly a high level to rise above.

I think the creeping things that crawl upon the earth are embarrassed to have Twitter for company.


----------



## FitzTheRuke

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I do that. I have autism, and don't have great social skills (reading the room, gestures, etc), which makes it difficult to communicate in person. I prefer communicating online, because it's easier for me to get my point across through text than speech.



That's fascinating. Most people completely screw up communicating on the internet. (I think it's because most people aren't very good writers - even good writers can easily fail to convey intent by text, why would we expect bad or at least amateur writers to do it successfully?) 

I am glad to hear that some people find it helps. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

FitzTheRuke said:


> That's fascinating. Most people completely screw up communicating on the internet. (I think it's because most people aren't very good writers - even good writers can easily fail to convey intent by text, why would we expect bad or at least amateur writers to do it successfully?)



I didn't say I was _good _at it, but I'm at least _better _at communicating through text than I am through speech. (I guess if most people are worse at communicating through text than speech, that would be more unique.)


FitzTheRuke said:


> I am glad to hear that some people find it helps. Thanks for sharing!



No problem.


----------



## FitzTheRuke

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I didn't say I was _good _at it, but I'm at least _better _at communicating through text than I am through speech. (I guess if most people are worse at communicating through text than speech, that would be more unique.)



I think most people are _terrible_ at communicating through their writing, and yet here we are, expected to try. More of us communicate by text all the time, and there's a very fine line between communication and miscommunication. I think that's yet another reason (among many) that things seem rude here. We're most of us stressed, but even when we don't intend to share that, just typing things quick and short, can make them come across as mean-spirited even when it's unintended. I work really, really hard to communicate with respect here, and yet I've been called out for being rude. I can only imagine how I'd "sound" if I wasn't trying, far or less how I'd sound if I was actually meaning to be rude to people.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Sometimes, I think that certain threads are just edition warring by another name, but substituting vitriol for D&D / not D&D for the prior vitriol. Every time I want to post in one of those threads, I get serious Admiral Ackbar vibes.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sometimes, I think that certain threads are just edition warring by another name, but substituting vitriol for D&D / not D&D for the prior vitriol. Every time I want to post in one of those threads, I get serious Admiral Ackbar vibes.




I refer to such things as "Dichotomy wars".  Pick a thing you can describe as poles, and folks will fight over it.


----------



## Morrus

Umbran said:


> I refer to such things as "Dichotomy wars".  Pick a thing you can describe as poles, and folks will fight over it.



One podcast I listen to reviews movies simply as “Best Movie Ever” or “Worst Movie Ever”. The joke being that there’s no nuance on the internet; a movie can only be one of those two things.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> I refer to such things as "Dichotomy wars".  Pick a thing you can describe as poles, and folks will fight over it.




The internet is like the not-corpulent-yet Marlon Brando:

"Hey, random internet person, what are you arguing against?"

"Whaddya got?"


----------



## Retreater

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The internet is like the not-corpulent-yet Marlon Brando:
> 
> "Hey, random internet person, what are you arguing against?"
> 
> "Whaddya got?"



I like to argue, and I tend to be pretty opinionated about issues I'm passionate about (like gaming). However, I know this doesn't foster a welcoming community here. So coming on this thread and typing something unrelated helps me bite my tongue.


----------



## embee

Morrus said:


> One podcast I listen to reviews movies simply as “Best Movie Ever” or “Worst Movie Ever”. The joke being that there’s no nuance on the internet; a movie can only be one of those two things.



I'm reminded of the old movie reviewer from the 80s and 90s who declared every movie he saw to be the best movie he had ever seen. 

They were invariably terrible movies (Uwe Boll, Paul WS Anderson, and similar drivel) but his declaration was able to be used as a pull-quote for the ads in the newspaper movie listings.

I'm actually surprised there isn't a light-hearted documentary about him and the terrible movies he promoted. But when he died, there was finally a movie that was the definitive best movie he had ever seen. 

And it was undoubtedly terrible.

************************************************************

Also, for those who are younger than 40, there used to be a terrible director named Uwe Boll who made terrible movies based on video games as a tax dodge. 

For those who are younger than 30, there used to be a thing called newspapers. It was like the internet but it was printed on cheap paper that would leave ink on your hands. And that is where you would find out if a movie was good or not - by reading a review by a professional paid movie critic. 

For those who are younger than 20, you used to have to look up when movies would be playing at your local movie theatre in the newspaper because there was no Netflix, Amazon Prime, or any other streaming service, and Fandango didn't exist. Neither did Moviefone. 

For those who are younger than 10, there used to be a thing called movie theatres. They were dark rooms where you would sit in a public place with total strangers and watch a movie from start to finish without the ability to pause it. You had to buy at least 1 ticket, either using an app or website or, in the real olden days, by talking to another human being who worked at the movie theatre. You would give them cash and they would give you a ticket, which you would hand to the ticket taker. 

For those who are younger than 5, there used to be a thing called cash. It was like a prepaid debit card but it was made of paper and had been touched by thousands of randos before you. And you would carry it around in your pocket. All those germs. In your pocket. And you would exchange it for other pieces or paper that had also been handled by random weirdos.


----------



## Eltab

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm asking as a relative newcomer to this site (I've only been around for a year or so), is it always like this on this site? I know the internet tends to get nasty the longer a thread goes on, and the mods generally tend to do a good job at shutting down threads before they erupt into all-out flame wars, but has it been this bad forever, or has the pandemic been making it this bad? I like participating in threads on this site (if I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here), but there does seem to be a lot of toxicity from my limited experience here.



I've been here since the WotC forums were closed, about 6 (?) years ago.  Both US Presidential election years, Morrus succumbed to his worst impulses and opened up the site for politics / politics-adjacent subjects.  Ire walked in the open door.  Last time Morrus got back his good senses in just a few months.  He's taking longer this time.  I figure eventually he will get tired of the self-inflicted extra work and remember that it is more fun to participate in a site dedicated to RPGs - something people do together.


----------



## Morrus

Eltab said:


> I've been here since the WotC forums were closed, about 6 (?) years ago.  Both US Presidential election years, Morrus succumbed to his worst impulses and opened up the site for politics / politics-adjacent subjects.  Ire walked in the open door.  Last time Morrus got back his good senses in just a few months.  He's taking longer this time.  I figure eventually he will get tired of the self-inflicted extra work and remember that it is more fun to participate in a site dedicated to RPGs - something people do together.



I really don’t like being talked about like I’m not right here. If you have something to say to me, say it to my face. Maybe with less snark than that and fewer remarks on my ‘worst impulses’ and ‘good senses’. You’re a guest in my house.


----------



## billd91

Eltab said:


> I've been here since the WotC forums were closed, about 6 (?) years ago.  Both US Presidential election years, Morrus succumbed to his worst impulses and opened up the site for politics / politics-adjacent subjects.  Ire walked in the open door.  Last time Morrus got back his good senses in just a few months.  He's taking longer this time.  I figure eventually he will get tired of the self-inflicted extra work and remember that it is more fun to participate in a site dedicated to RPGs - something people do together.



Yeah, participate together - which means that issues of what that *means* will come up as well as what it means to participate equally, openly, and welcoming people to do so. So, yeah, politics is going to be inherent in some of those topics. If those topics discomfort you, fortunately we have this thread where you can declare you didn't take part.


----------



## Cadence

That's called the placebo effect.


----------



## Cadence

< Insert something on future generations looking back at us for things we do regularly RE: climate change and environmental contamination >


----------



## Mercurius

Cadence said:


> < Insert something on future generations looking back at us for things we do regularly RE: climate change and environmental contamination >



That's just the stuff we know that we are doing wrong. If we look back at human history, it is filled with bad ideas, or ideas that seemed good at the time but were later realized to be bad. So there's tons of stuff that is _Proven By Science!_ to be right and true, or agreed upon by _Good Opinion! _that, someday, we'll realize was just off base or created more problems than solutions. I've got some ideas, but don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

We can see this microcosmically by scanning our own biography. Pretty much every decision I made before the last few years seems...ill-chosen. Or to put it visually:





Thankfully I haven't turned into a desiccated skeleton due to any of my bad decisions...yet.


----------



## Cadence

Is anyone sure that <poster name a> and <poster name b> aren't the same person, just that <A> can't be used in threads whose name would clash too badly with <name a>?


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm asking as a relative newcomer to this site (I've only been around for a year or so), is it always like this on this site? I know the internet tends to get nasty the longer a thread goes on, and the mods generally tend to do a good job at shutting down threads before they erupt into all-out flame wars, but has it been this bad forever, or has the pandemic been making it this bad? I like participating in threads on this site (if I didn't, I wouldn't be posting here), but there does seem to be a lot of toxicity from my limited experience here.



That's just the nature of forums in general.


----------



## Ryujin

Parmandur said:


> That's just the nature of forums in general.



And this forum is incredibly tame, compared to many that I have seen/am a member of/moderate.


----------



## Umbran

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm asking as a relative newcomer to this site (I've only been around for a year or so), is it always like this on this site?




There are ebbs and flows, rises and falls.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I was gone for almost a month (and it was SPECTACULAR!) and I came back to find that TSR was back! Yes! I should probably comment!

(reads threads)

Oh. My.

I mean, on the one hand, it's a sad and unexpected turn of events. On the other hand, it seems perfectly in line with everything else that has been going on.
Five lessons we should all have learned in kindergarten:

1. Don't be a jerk.
2. If you do something wrong, make a real apology. Don't double down.
3. People that encourage you to do bad things aren't you're friends. You should not sit at the lunch table with them.
4. Don't tweet.
5. See 4? Really, don't tweet.

So I'm just going to say that my absence during the time of this TSR controversy is just a complete and total coincidence. I am neither Michael nor Spartacus.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So I'm just going to say that my absence during the time of this TSR controversy is just a complete and total coincidence. I am neither Michael nor Spartacus.




So, what I'm hearing is that you _don't deny_ being Kaiser Soze....


----------



## cmad1977

Umbran said:


> So, what I'm hearing is that you _don't deny_ being Kaiser Soze....




Clearly Michael has shown himself.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> So, what I'm hearing is that you _don't deny_ being Kaiser Soze....




After those two tweets my guess is that you will never hear from him again. The greatest trick Michael ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.

And like that... he is gone.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> After those two tweets my guess is that you will never hear from him again. The greatest trick Michael ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.
> 
> And like that... he is gone.




Unlike Kaiser, he doesn't have a Salsa named for him at Moe's yet  (American burrito chain).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Unlike Kaiser, he doesn't have a Salsa named for him at Moe's yet  (American burrito chain).




I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is this ... _homage_ ... from an American Burrito chain.


I'm not sure what is worse; the Kaiser Salsa, or that the chain serving Tex-Mex (which, ostensibly, is "Mexican") is named Moe's, which is not a name I associate with fine Mexican cuisine.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is this ... _homage_ ... from an American Burrito chain.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what is worse; the Kaiser Salsa, or that the chain serving Tex-Mex (which, ostensibly, is "Mexican") is named " Moe's, which is not a name I associate with fine Mexican cuisine.




I had to google where the name came from just now...

"The name "Moe's" originated as an acronym for "Musicians, Outlaws and Entertainers," and this theme led to the music-related artwork found in the restaurants."

They originally had homages to musicians and movie characters around the restaurant in pictures and in product names.  I think the lawyers eventually had them ditch the pictures several years ago, and then more recently a lot of the product names.   I think it's much better than the name would lead one to believe.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I think it's much better than the name would lead one to believe.


----------



## Cadence

OMG!  You sounded reasonable in that post!?!?!


----------



## Cadence

Thank you mod!


----------



## Cadence

Thankfully ENWorld isn't too like Twitter...  unless it's threads about xxxxxx.   ;-)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Thankfully ENWorld isn't too like Twitter...  unless it's threads about xxxxxx.   ;-)
> 
> View attachment 140433




With apologies to Bukowski ....

twitter diminishes me;
the longer I sit and read those tweets
the more empty I feel but I don't get
the idea that the people feel empty, I feel
that they enjoy the sound from their
mouths.


----------



## dragoner

"Have you tried lying on your side and whinging?" 
My feelings when reading some complaint threads/posts


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> Thankfully ENWorld isn't too like Twitter...  unless it's threads about xxxxxx.   ;-)
> 
> View attachment 140433



Twitter, after all, _is_ the perfect self-selector for twits.  There really is no better named site in all the interwebz.


----------



## HawaiiSteveO

The problem with lecturing everyone else on how they’re living / playing / watching wrong is that if they listen and learn, you have no one left to feel superior to


----------



## slobster

Posts about correcting/disputing someone's take on history rarely ever turn into a constructive line of conversation, even if I'm really interested in a theoretically respectful exchange. Besides, that was way off topic for the thread anyway!


----------



## Deset Gled

I managed to hold out posting in a thread for over a 100 pages. I was browsing it on and off, through some good arguments, some bad ones, and lots of fluff.  I finally decided to throw in my $0.02... and the thread is closed two posts later.  Can't tell if I missed the bus or dodged a bullet.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> I managed to hold out posting in a thread for over a 100 pages. I was browsing it on and off, through some good arguments, some bad ones, and lots of fluff.  I finally decided to throw in my $0.02... and the thread is closed two posts later.  Can't tell if I missed the bus or dodged a bullet.



And it wasn't even the thread I was expecting it to be!   (There are some you know will come back, not sure on that one).


----------



## J.Quondam

Deset Gled said:


> I managed to hold out posting in a thread for over a 100 pages. I was browsing it on and off, through some good arguments, some bad ones, and lots of fluff.  I finally decided to throw in my $0.02... and the thread is closed two posts later.  Can't tell if I missed the bus or dodged a bullet.



Sounds to me like maybe you _shot_ the bullet.
I dub thee "Threadslayer!"


----------



## darjr

This is a test, isn’t it?


----------



## BookTenTiger

If you didn't convince this poster in the last thread... and the thread before that... and the thread before that... maybe it's not worth trying to convince them this time around?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

BookTenTiger said:


> If you didn't convince this poster in the last thread... and the thread before that... and the thread before that... maybe it's not worth trying to convince them this time around?



But that's not the real fake Einstein quote!!!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Cadence said:


> I had to google where the name came from just now...
> 
> "The name "Moe's" originated as an acronym for "Musicians, Outlaws and Entertainers," and this theme led to the music-related artwork found in the restaurants."
> 
> They originally had homages to musicians and movie characters around the restaurant in pictures and in product names.  I think the lawyers eventually had them ditch the pictures several years ago, and then more recently a lot of the product names.   I think it's much better than the name would lead one to believe.



Is Moe’s still a thing?  They opened up a whole bunch of locations in D/FW- I thought they were pretty good, IMHO- and then after just a couple years, they started disappearing.

Oddly, each location was replaced by another chain restaurant.  As in, all the same chain.

Odder still, THOSE restaurants _also_ closed after only a short period of time.


----------



## Cadence

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Is Moe’s still a thing?  They opened up a whole bunch of locations in D/FW- I thought they were pretty good, IMHO- and then after just a couple years, they started disappearing.
> 
> Oddly, each location was replaced by another chain restaurant.  As in, all the same chain.
> 
> Odder still, THOSE restaurants _also_ closed after only a short period of time.




The ones here in SC all seem to still be around.  I'm guessing most South Carolinians have different standards for south westish food than those from DFW though


----------



## turnip_farmer

When I was a hot-headed and reckless youth, I found it very hard to let things slide. If someone was wrong, I had to let them and everybody else know.

Thankfully, I've mellowed, and a lot of the forums on which I spentt those days have gone the way of the dodo. I've learnt to accept that people who are not me are usually wrong, and just play games about dwarfs and hobbits instead of worrying about it.

Sometimes it still requires a bit of conscious self-control, though.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

turnip_farmer said:


> When I was a hot-headed and reckless youth, I found it very hard to let things slide. If someone was wrong, I had to let them and everybody else know.
> 
> Thankfully, I've mellowed, and a lot of the forums on which I spentt those days have gone the way of the dodo. I've learnt to accept that people who are not me are usually wrong, and just play games about dwarfs and hobbits instead of worrying about it.
> 
> Sometimes it still requires a bit of conscious self-control, though.




Ugh. Every single time I think I've learned that lesson, I realize that ... I haven't. The gulf between understanding the right thing to do and practicing that is inevitable. Not to mention we all carry with us the stressors of what is going on in our own lives, and it is easier to be forgiving on ourselves than on others that we do not know. 

It's almost always the same thing, too. I call it the Inevitable Third Person Corollary. Any argument that you're walking away from can be re-kindled and made worse by a third person coming in.


----------



## embee

Cadence said:


> Thankfully ENWorld isn't too like Twitter...  unless it's threads about xxxxxx.   ;-)
> 
> View attachment 140433



Is that from the thread where Silver chastised a virologist for stealing his Twitter take when, in fact, the virologist was responding to another virologist about that virologists medical research?


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ugh. Every single time I think I've learned that lesson, I realize that ... I haven't. The gulf between understanding the right thing to do and practicing that is inevitable. Not to mention we all carry with us the stressors of what is going on in our own lives, and it is easier to be forgiving on ourselves than on others that we do not know.
> 
> It's almost always the same thing, too. I call it the Inevitable Third Person Corollary. Any argument that you're walking away from can be re-kindled and made worse by a third person coming in.



There was a study a few years ago that showed that when people of different political ideologies actually got a chance to talk with each other online and took their time to explain their reasoning... it actually strengthened each person's belief in their own side.

I feel like I fall into this trap too. "If I explain my ideas clearly, THIS time the logic will be too strong for them to disagree with!"

And it... never works!


----------



## embee

BookTenTiger said:


> There was a study a few years ago that showed that when people of different political ideologies actually got a chance to talk with each other online and took their time to explain their reasoning... it actually strengthened each person's belief in their own side.
> 
> I feel like I fall into this trap too. "If I explain my ideas clearly, THIS time the logic will be too strong for them to disagree with!"
> 
> And it... never works!








Are Randos On Twitter Dumber Than A Hamster? 

The data say yes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> There was a study a few years ago that showed that when people of different political ideologies actually got a chance to talk with each other online and took their time to explain their reasoning... it actually strengthened each person's belief in their own side.
> 
> I feel like I fall into this trap too. "If I explain my ideas clearly, THIS time the logic will be too strong for them to disagree with!"
> 
> And it... never works!




When people are invested in something, whether it's an ideology, a sports team, or Druids wearing  (or not wearing) metal armor, there is a great difficulty in seeing the worth of any other position.

Weirdly, I generally don't get too bothered about people being wrong; after all, other people are not me, and therefore I assume that they are wrong! 

Instead, it's certain tropes that come up that ... get under my skin.


----------



## turnip_farmer

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ugh. Every single time I think I've learned that lesson, I realize that ... I haven't. The gulf between understanding the right thing to do and practicing that is inevitable. Not to mention we all carry with us the stressors of what is going on in our own lives, and it is easier to be forgiving on ourselves than on others that we do not know.



Ah well, no-one's perfect. If you pay close attention you may notice I don't always succeed in maintaining my  equanimity here.

I really trying these days, though, to stick to the principle of ignoring threads where the only comment I want to make is 'Who cares? What's wrong with you people?'


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ... it is easier to be forgiving on ourselves than on others that we do not know.




Indeed. There's an outright neurological element here - when judging the value/ethical/moral status of actions, humans use physically different areas of the brain to judge themselves, and judge others.  We _literally_ and physically think about ourselves differently.

On top of this, emotional responses are fast, and reasoned ones are slow. If one doesn't _physically pause_ between reading a thing, and writing a response, the response is apt to be dominated by the emotional take, which... well, isn't great.  That's where the ego we attach to our positions lives...



BookTenTiger said:


> There was a study a few years ago that showed that when people of different political ideologies actually got a chance to talk with each other online and took their time to explain their reasoning... it actually strengthened each person's belief in their own side.




That's because "explaining reasoning" is not the path to being persuasive.  If two people sit down to explain their own reasoning, without each having a goal to understand where the other person is coming from, the reasoning presented will fall afoul of the emotional responses above.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Umbran said:


> Indeed. There's an outright neurological element here - when judging the value/ethical/moral status of actions, humans use physically different areas of the brain to judge themselves, and judge others.  We _literally_ and physically think about ourselves differently.
> 
> On top of this, emotional responses are fact, and reasoned ones are slow. If one doesn't _physically pause_ between reading a thing, and writing a response, the response is apt to be dominated by the emotional take, which... well, isn't great.  That's where the ego we attach to our positions lives...
> 
> 
> 
> That's because "explaining reasoning" is not the path to being persuasive.  If two people sit down to explain their own reasoning, without each having a goal to understand where the other person is coming from, the reasoning presented will fall afoul of the emotional responses above.



I bet this gets thrown off on the internet, too, because typed words are so difficult to read emotion through. If I respond to your post with "Of course!" you could read it as confirming ("I agree!"), revelatory ("I didn't think of that!"), or sarcastic ("No duh!").

So when I'm arguing with someone online, I'm sure my subconscious supplies whatever emotion to their posts that works best for me. Because of that, it often FEELS like I can sway their opinion, even if logically I know it's not likely to happen.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

I can't even count anymore the number of threads I started to reply to and then didn't, because while my post would be inside the site's rules, some of it would be so close to pushing the rules about religion or politics, that there would be no way anyone could make a real response without taking things over the line and either getting warnings for people or the thread closed. Sometimes it is too hard here to make a post that is inclusive and fair and all the other good stuff we should all believe and practice, without the post also calling out the oppressive thoughts and beliefs of the other side.


----------



## darjr

I didn’t post! I pass the test! I will diminish and pass into the west.


----------



## Cadence

embee said:


> Is that from the thread where Silver chastised a virologist for stealing his Twitter take when, in fact, the virologist was responding to another virologist about that virologists medical research?



It was a standalone.  Checking back to July 14 now, there was a retweet the day before about the economy (no tweets) and nothing two days before.  That day there was a tweet that was something about poker.  The first two the next day were about the R value, and humidity.


----------



## J.Quondam

I wanted to make a comment here, but thought better of it. 
Is there a "I didn't comment in the 'The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread' thread" anywhere so I can post it over there?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> I wanted to make a comment here, but thought better of it.
> Is there a "I didn't comment in the 'The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread' thread" anywhere so I can post it over there?




The last five people we had asked to set up the Godel Incompleteness Theorem Thread (it's to the left of the ouroboros thread, northeast of the 'who shall guard the guards' comment) ended up like this-


----------



## Eltab

J.Quondam said:


> I wanted to make a comment here, but thought better of it.
> Is there a "I didn't comment in the 'The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread' thread" anywhere so I can post it over there?



Not yet, but we could find a thread that is well on the way to being closed for its own problems and 'comment about not commenting elsewhere' there.

We also could start two more 'didn't comment' threads and set up a round-robin for where you didn't say -whatever-.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I'm just tired of people liking things I don't like. I've tried shouting and that didn't work, so there are absolutely no other tactics left for me to try. I'm just going to try to be a bigger man and stew here in my own ire and spite, and let you guys know just how right I am to have these opinions, which are based on pure facts, untainted by personal bias.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I'm just tired of people liking things I don't like. I've tried shouting and that didn't work, so there are absolutely no other tactics left for me to try. I'm just going to try to be a bigger man and stew here in my own ire and spite, and let you guys know just how right I am to have these opinions, which are based on pure facts, untainted by personal bias.




There’s a four-letter expletive for dumb jerks like that.

Bard.


----------



## Umbran

J.Quondam said:


> I wanted to make a comment here, but thought better of it.
> Is there a "I didn't comment in the 'The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread' thread" anywhere so I can post it over there?




Sorry, we don't have a Meta-Meta Forum.  We do not accept recursion.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There’s a four-letter expletive for dumb jerks like that.
> 
> Bard.



And there's an 8-letter-word of an even worse meaning:

Halfling.


----------



## Cadence

Now you're making me want to set up an adventure on a locomotive, just so it's definitionally a ...


----------



## dragoner

AcererakTriple6 said:


> And there's an 8-letter-word of an even worse meaning:
> 
> Halfling.



So by D&D standards, are we Humans just Dire Halflings?


----------



## J.Quondam

When halflings play D&D, maybe the Humans are called Twicelings.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There’s a four-letter expletive for dumb jerks like that.
> 
> Bard.




The number of threads I've nearly been baited into posting in by your nonsensical bard-bashing, but then thought better of, is legion.


----------



## RealAlHazred

dragoner said:


> So by D&D standards, are we Humans just Dire Halflings?



Aren't half-orcs just dire humans?


----------



## dragoner

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Aren't half-orcs just dire humans?



Could be!


----------



## Cadence

< insert rant about populism >


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Benjamin Olson said:


> The number of threads I've nearly been baited into posting in by your nonsensical bard-bashing, but then thought better of, is legion.




Any time you feel the need to join me in bard-bashing, just come right on in. I know you might feel hesitant; after all, bards are like cockroaches, and it seems that no matter how many you stamp out, there are always more skulking about under the floorboards with their lyres and their lutes.

Given that the trouble isn't that there are too many bards, but that lightning just isn't distributed correctly, don't be afraid to embrace your honorable duty.


----------



## Tantavalist

Oh, there are people who think _they_ have problems with Bards?

My brother is one of those people who can't take a hint when you're not interested in hearing what he has to say. I'm probably the only person he interacts with IRL on a regular basis who he knows plays RPGs. So clearly I'm the one who has to hear all about his Bard characters. Played in tabletop years ago, or in D&D/Pathfinder computer RPGs, solo or multiplayer. He always has to play Bards and constantly min-max the hell out of them. And then regale me with the tales of what his latest OP broken Bard build chracter got up to.

He's been known to become physically violent when someone presents an argument that Bards are not the Chosen Ones Annointed By Heaven that he's unable to refute. (Yes, as in the gif above.)


----------



## Umbran

Tantavalist said:


> Oh, there are people who think _they_ have problems with Bards?
> 
> My brother ...



This is a problem with brothers, not bards.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> This is a problem with brothers, not bards.




Both start with a “b”. 

Coincidence? I think not.

You can pick your friends, and you can pick on bards, but you can’t let your friends pick bards.


----------



## Richards

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Is Moe’s still a thing?



There's still a Moe's outside Hill AFB in Utah.  I was very pleased to see it, too, because the one by me closed, was replaced by a Mexican restaurant which also soon closed, and has now been replaced by yet another Mexican restaurant.  We'll see how long that lasts.

In the meantime, I'll be back at Hill AFB in a week and a half for a three-day business trip.  _Welcome to Moe's!_

(By the way, I was saddened during my last trip there to see they no longer call the Funkmeisters by that name.  They still have them, they just call them "soft-shell tacos."  How boring!)

Johnathan


----------



## Cadence

Richards said:


> There's still a Moe's outside Hill AFB in Utah.  I was very pleased to see it, too, because the one by me closed, was replaced by a Mexican restaurant which also soon closed, and has now been replaced by yet another Mexican restaurant.  We'll see how long that lasts.
> 
> In the meantime, I'll be back at Hill AFB in a week and a half for a three-day business trip.  _Welcome to Moe's!_
> 
> (By the way, I was saddened during my last trip there to see they no longer call the Funkmeisters by that name.  They still have them, they just call them "soft-shell tacos."  How boring!)
> 
> Johnathan




The burritos will always be Joeys to me!


----------



## Cadence

I can't tell if you have two accounts for a random reason, are one of two people who post the same style and post lots around the same time but almost never in the same thread, or if it's just a coincidence.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

It was so nice to be able to read about some indie game developers and players exploring some ideas that I thought tied in nicely with a little bit of the early history of D&D. It's unfortunate that we can't have those discussions on this forum for the same reasons (and people) that we never can.


----------



## MGibster

Not posting would mean depriving you all of my wit and wisdom of which you all so desperately need.  While I do think some negativity is a good thing, when the negativity is overwhelming or it targets an individual it can certainly be destructive.  One of the things I like about ENWorld is that most of the threads are not overwhelmingly negative and almost every here is both attractive and intelligent.  ::gazing longingly into a mirror::  But not as intelligent as you, you handsome devil, you.   

And we have a few Moe's here in Little Rock that are hit-or-miss.  The one in Little Rock is staffed with surly employees but they get my order right so I'll let that go.  The one in Bryant is very often out of basic ingredients like onions or lettuce which is just unacceptable given that there's a supermarket just across the highway.


----------



## darjr

oh no I didn't share my esteemed wisdom and now the world is worse for forumites going out into the world ignorant of my brilliance and wit.

a good thing really.


----------



## Cadence

I can't imagine any stronger sign that you're totally off the tales than making those two agree.  I don't think I've ever seen them agree about anything!!!


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> I can't tell if you have two accounts for a random reason, are one of two people who post the same style and post lots around the same time but almost never in the same thread, or if it's just a coincidence.



Some folks have a second account for play-by-post, but forget to swap ids before posting.

Edit:  Someone reacted with a "wow".  There's nothing weird here.  Some folks do PBP games with an ID _as their character_, which is cool.  They then just don't log out and log back in with their usual ID.  Simple mistake, and no intent to be sneaky or anything.  Just human error.


----------



## darjr

Ah well I probably should have posted here…..


----------



## Gradine

Nah, it was entirely on-topic to the discussion at hand, regardless of the questionable content involved. You didn't bring it up... it was already there from the beginning!


----------



## Retreater

Yeah. I feel there was more to be said about the issue overall, but the conversation dipped into dangerous territory.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Retreater said:


> Yeah. I feel there was more to be said about the issue overall, but the conversation dipped into dangerous territory.




If a thread is about "How do you time travel and kill Hitler," can you really Godwin it?


----------



## Cadence

* So, anyway, probably best to avoid this becoming a discussion about mod decisions.  They can be messaged about them iirc. "


----------



## darjr

darjr said:


> Ah well I probably should have posted here…..



git clone .


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> If a thread is about "How do you time travel and kill Hitler," can you really Godwin it?



Already Godwined by default


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I didn't post in that thread. You know, the one that is now closed. Given that I've never played Pathfinder/Starfinder and am not that familiar with Paizo, I don't think there's much I could've contributed to that thread. However, I was lingering, reading, and liking posts. I read the whole twitter-discussion on what happened, too. Anyway, it was bound to get closed, as any threads of that nature are. 

I'm not sure if I'm glad that I didn't post or what, but it was probably for the best.


----------



## dragoner

AcererakTriple6 said:


> However, I was lingering, reading, and liking posts.



My usual forum interaction! Though I also read part of the twitter. Not that I had anything meaningful to say ...


----------



## Cadence

So, X never used that word (they used something broadly taken as a synonym, so they obviously meant something completely different and the similarity doesn't need addressing)?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> So, X never used that word (they used something broadly taken as a synonym, so they obviously meant something completely different and the similarity doesn't need addressing)?



I disagree! That user obviously meant something more like how I do things, how dare you suggest they would mean something more like how you do things, you peasant!


----------



## niklinna

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Aren't half-orcs just dire humans?



I thought they were dire elves (in Tolkien's works).


----------



## Benjamin Olson

niklinna said:


> I thought they were dire elves (in Tolkien's works).



Tolkien's normal Orcs were Dire Elves. Half-Orcs are Uruk-hai.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Benjamin Olson said:


> Tolkien's normal Orcs were Dire Elves. Half-Orcs are Uruk-hai.



"I'm a half-orc."
"Really?"
"Yes. The other half is also orc, but it's a completely different clan; I don't like to talk about them."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

As an RPG theorist and game designer, he was a great, uh, non-tenured biologist.


----------



## J.Quondam

Whoah... With rules lawyering like that, I'd feel bad for the rules criminal.


----------



## Cadence

Just because you converted one way, doesn't mean it was to something better.  In real life there are converts both ways between political parties and religions.  And it feels like the most strident defenders are often the converts.  

----

Did I catch it correctly: "blah blah blah <your 40 years of gaming experience are swept aside by my better spent 40 years - because if they weren't you'd understand why this thing I'm talking about is a very, very, very important distinction> blah blah blah." ?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> And it feels like the most strident defenders are often the converts.




There is nothing like the zeal of the newly converted.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is nothing like the zeal of the newly converted.




A newly converted person is _changing their self-identity_.  If you didn't feel strongly about it, you wouldn't do it.  And, as it is new, it needs a lot of reinforcement.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> A newly converted person is _changing their self-identity_.  If you didn't feel strongly about it, you wouldn't do it.  And, as it is new, it needs a lot of reinforcement.




Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.


----------



## Gradine

My favorite thing about this thread is that I can never tell whether all y'all are talking about trans rights or damage on a miss


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.



SELFISH, adj. Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others. -- _The Devil's Dictionary_, Ambrose Bierce


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> My favorite thing about this thread is that I can never tell whether all y'all are talking about trans rights or damage on a miss




On EN World, we embrace the power of "AND".


----------



## dragoner

I know, I have played the game, though the hostile 'tudes make me really want to disengage.


----------



## Bagpuss

aco175 said:


> I see that I cannot even say that I was going to say something.  Maybe we should just stick to gaming then.  Did not make me feel better though, but maybe good thread for others.



Maybe we need another thread to say we were going to say something in this thread.... erm this could snowball.


----------



## Bagpuss

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have often regretted the things that I have posted.
> 
> I have never regretted the things I have not.




Really you've never regretted not saying something? Lucky you.

I imagine anxiety, fear of rejection, how something might be taken or just not having the right words at the right time, mean lots of people regretted thing that were not said.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bagpuss said:


> Really you've never regretted not saying something?.




On a public Internet forum?

No.

I am not (yet) so deluded as to believe that my words are in service to more that my own ego.

Chance are that if I hold my tongue and stop typing for an hour, someone else will make the point that I was going to anyways.


----------



## Umbran

Bagpuss said:


> I imagine anxiety, fear of rejection, how something might be taken or just not having the right words at the right time, mean lots of people regretted thing that were not said.




Maybe you're talking about a different scale of regret.  Because for the most part, we talk about pretending to be elves. The number of things of import here, that one can have what I'd consider significant regret about, are small.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I am not (yet) so deluded as to believe that my words are in service to more that my own ego.



EGOTIST, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.
_Megaceph, chosen to serve the State
In the halls of legislative debate,
One day with all his credentials came
To the capitol's door and announced his name.
The doorkeeper looked, with a comical twist
Of the face, at the eminent egotist,
And said:  "Go away, for we settle here
All manner of questions, knotty and queer,
And we cannot have, when the speaker demands
To be told how every member stands,
A man who to all things under the sky
Assents by eternally voting 'I'."_​-- _*The Devil's Dictionary*_, Ambrose Bierce


----------



## Cadence

"Because the government told them they had to learn magic."


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> "Because the government told them they had to learn magic."



POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When he wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive. 
-- _*The Devil's Dictionary*_, Ambrose Bierce-- _*The Devil's Dictionary*_, Ambrose Bierce​


----------



## J.Quondam

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When he wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive.
> -- _*The Devil's Dictionary*_, Ambrose Bierce-- _*The Devil's Dictionary*_, Ambrose Bierce​



I hope someone etches The Devil's Dictionary onto a big slab of basalt, so linguists 10,000 years from now will have a proper reference for translating modern English.


----------



## BookTenTiger




----------



## Deset Gled

BookTenTiger said:


> <>




From the first post, there was no chance it could have ended any other way.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> From the first post, there was no chance it could have ended any other way.


----------



## Cadence

What if we're all characters and our souls are the players.


----------



## Galandris

Cadence said:


> What if we're all characters and our souls are the players.




We might even be NPCs. Descartes was a player and he quit a long time ago because of the railroading.


----------



## Cadence

Galandris said:


> We might even be NPCs. Descartes was a player and he quit a long time ago because of the railroading.




And now I'm googling Descartes vs Calvin.  Augh.  I can almost feel the puppet strings.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> What if we're all characters and our souls are the players.




Then I know several cases of "players" who like buying a whole lot of disadvantages at character generation.  They... may want to rethink that.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Then I know several cases of "players" who like buying a whole lot of disadvantages at character generation.  They... may want to rethink that.



Might be a die rolling character creation system without guardrails (even Traveller never had  characters die in the womb).


----------



## darjr

Ugh. Sometimes your very own posts contain the answer you seek.


----------



## Cadence

The archival pictures from 76 or so years ago that went along with my first sentence.


----------



## Cadence

More obvious than the outcome of last nights ball game after the 8th inning...


----------



## Galandris

90% of the forum's negativity might disappear if a bot somehow added "In my opinion, that I don't claim to be superior to anyone's," before each and every post.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Galandris said:


> In my opinion, that I don't claim to be superior to anyone's, 90% of the forum's negativity might disappear if a bot somehow added "In my opinion, that I don't claim to be superior to anyone's," before each and every post.


----------



## darjr

Galandris said:


> 90% of the forum's negativity might disappear if a bot somehow added "In my opinion, that I don't claim to be superior to anyone's," before each and every post.



I just assume it.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> I just assume it.



Many don't, which leads to some thinking that you're trying to dictate the opinion of others.


----------



## billd91

Provoking a threadban was the logical thing to do. That'll show 'em. Truth, baby.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Galandris said:


> 90% of the forum's negativity might disappear if a bot somehow added "In my opinion, that I don't claim to be superior to anyone's," before each and every post.



And yet I'm currently trying to get my High School students to stop filling up essay word counts with a bunch of unnecessary "in my opinion" language. It never occurred to me that teaching good formal writing style could be making the internet a worse place.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Galandris said:


> 90% of the forum's negativity might disappear if a bot somehow added "In my opinion, that I don't claim to be superior to anyone's," before each and every post.



And 5% would remain from people that actually believe that their opinion/playstyle is superior to others, and the other 5% would just be miscommunications/misunderstandings.


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> And 5% would remain from people that actually believe that their opinion/playstyle is superior to others, and the other 5% would just be miscommunications/misunderstandings.



Yet, that 10% will cause untold number of threads asking, "why?".


----------



## Retreater

payn said:


> Yet, that 10% will cause untold number of threads asking, "why?".



10% of the time, it works every time.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Benjamin Olson said:


> And yet I'm currently trying to get my High School students to stop filling up essay word counts with a bunch of unnecessary "in my opinion" language. It never occurred to me that teaching good formal writing style could be making the internet a worse place.



This reminds me of how as a Literature Major I had to learn how to take "I" statements out of essays. Then I got a teaching credential, and I had to learn how to put "I" statements back into my essays! It felt soooo uncomfortable at first.


----------



## darjr

Retreater said:


> 10% of the time, it works every time.



What?!? No! It works all the time, 10% of the time.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

The only thing that could make this #humblebrag about not caring about popular things even more annoying is if it ended ….

“And I’ve never owned a television either.”


----------



## payn

I dont have a microwave. Does that count?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I dont have a microwave. Does that count?




One time, I thought I was watching the opening to a really thrilling miniseries with a jarring, modern soundtrack likely from Jonny Greenwood. 

Alas, it was just  microwave popcorn.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Many don't, which leads to some thinking that you're trying to dictate the opinion of others.




Assuming it works if you don't plan to engage in depth.

However, a major issue arises, in that many people don't _mean_ it.  Assuming it means you are not immediately offended, but can then end up going down a frustrating rathole, only to get clearly and directly insulted down at the bottom.  It is like one person is discussing in bad faith, except they never told you it was in good faith - you assumed it.

I've found (and seen) it is better for folks to say what you actually mean.  If you actually mean it is all really in your humble opinion, you can usually denote that by avoiding constructions that use absolutes, or occasionally mention that things are "my personal preference" or the like.  It isn't really that big a burden...

... and doing so usually gets you a whole lot of leeway when a moderator comes through and reviews an exchange to see who is the root of the trouble.


----------



## darjr

“Just kidding” isn’t an excuse


----------



## Not a Hobbit

Some people who are so sure of their own "rightness" are really just hypocrites who can talk pretty with big words. Unfortunately, for various reasons, it's impossible to point out their hypocrisy, lest they become offended and lash out.
They are fairly easy to recognize if you bother to look. Most people don't bother to look, however.
In my opinion, of course.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Assuming it works if you don't plan to engage in depth.
> 
> However, a major issue arises, in that many people don't _mean_ it.  Assuming it means you are not immediately offended, but can then end up going down a frustrating rathole, only to get clearly and directly insulted down at the bottom.  It is like one person is discussing in bad faith, except they never told you it was in good faith - you assumed it.
> 
> I've found (and seen) it is better for folks to say what you actually mean.  If you actually mean it is all really in your humble opinion, you can usually denote that by avoiding constructions that use absolutes, or occasionally mention that things are "my personal preference" or the like.  It isn't really that big a burden...
> 
> ... and doing so usually gets you a whole lot of leeway when a moderator comes through and reviews an exchange to see who is the root of the trouble.



Sure, however, it gets more than a little cumbersome to state, "In my opinion..." or the like every time that you make a post. by default a post is generally a person's own opinion, unless they explicitly state that it's that of someone else. Text is a terrible tool for conveying emotion or intent, for most people, and as a result people tend to read their own emotional content into the words of other people. That way lies madness. And flame wars.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Sure, however, it gets more than a little cumbersome to state, "In my opinion..." or the like every time that you make a post. by default a post is generally a person's own opinion, unless they explicitly state that it's that of someone else.




Ah, but you are missing the central element - when what is actually an opinion is rhetorically positioned as truth, especially when it includes a slight against others.

Like, "Powergamers are crappy role players." It is actually a personal opinion, but stated as a fact, and is an insult to those who view themselves as powergamers.  No, I don't think folks should be expected that the author meant, "In my opinion...." and allow it to slide without comment.



Ryujin said:


> Text is a terrible tool for conveying emotion or intent, for most people, and as a result people tend to read their own emotional content into the words of other people. That way lies madness. And flame wars.




I think that's off a little bit, but close enough for the moment.

Effective communication is not the practice of saying whatever you darned well please in whatever way is convenient for you.  It is the practice of _considering your audience_, and how best to reach them.  So, if you _know_ people read emotional content into text, but you choose to write as if they didn't, because it is "too cumbersome"... that's your choice.  To bemoan that, yet again, humans acted like humans is rather like complaining that rain is wet.  

You don't get to change human nature. You do get to adjust your writing style.


----------



## payn

I do think text is tough, and its easy to make mistakes, but people often lean on that as an excuse. I've changed my behavior a lot over the years from making some of these mistakes and learning from them.


----------



## darjr

Just because I assume “in my opinion” doesn’t mean I won’t  see a post as garbage.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Ah, but you are missing the central element - when what is actually an opinion is rhetorically positioned as truth, especially when it includes a slight against others.
> 
> Like, "Powergamers are crappy role players." It is actually a personal opinion, but stated as a fact, and is an insult to those who view themselves as powergamers.  No, I don't think folks should be expected that the author meant, "In my opinion...." and allow it to slide without comment.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's off a little bit, but close enough for the moment.
> 
> Effective communication is not the practice of saying whatever you darned well please in whatever way is convenient for you.  It is the practice of _considering your audience_, and how best to reach them.  So, if you _know_ people read emotional content into text, but you choose to write as if they didn't, because it is "too cumbersome"... that's your choice.  To bemoan that, yet again, humans acted like humans is rather like complaining that rain is wet.
> 
> You don't get to change human nature. You do get to adjust your writing style.



Yet there's an assumption there; that the statement made is being presented as fact, not opinion. That assumption is made on the part of the reader and is nowhere in the text.

Effective use of text to convey intent/emotional context is a skill that not many really have. If they did, there would be a lot more accomplished writers in the world.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Effective use of text to convey intent/emotional context is a skill that not many really have.




THAT'S WHAT ALL-CAPS IS FOR! TO MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THAT WHAT I AM SAYING IS VERY IMPORTANT!!111!!!!!!


----------



## prabe

OR NOT AT ALL SARCASTIC


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> Effective use of text to convey intent/emotional context is a skill that not many really have.



In business school, there are classes on effectively conveying feeling in internet communication. They push the use of emojis, remembering to +1 posts, all that. The strange thing is, that I am sure it is taught also to ESL users, because I can see the similarities in the way they post (esp in the land of Raves, Vodka, and IT). On the other hand, I think westerners probably do see it as sarcasm, or taking the piss; which only adds that extra bit of hilarity.


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> In business school, there are classes on effectively conveying feeling in internet communication. They push the use of emojis, remembering to +1 posts, all that. The strange thing is, that I am sure it is taught also to ESL users, because I can see the similarities in the way they post (esp in the land of Raves, Vodka, and IT). On the other hand, I think westerners probably do see it as sarcasm, or taking the piss; which only adds that extra bit of hilarity.



Really? That is disappointing. I can not stand emoji use in professional communication. I can see the value in netiquette, but emojis just make things seem too casual and even juvenile. Also, as a project manager I'm not your buddy, I'm here to make sure communication flows and stuff gets done.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Also, as a project manager I'm not your buddy,




Well, as a manager of project managers, I'm not your friend, buddy.


----------



## dragoner

payn said:


> Really? That is disappointing. I can not stand emoji use in professional communication. I can see the value in netiquette, but emojis just make things seem too casual and even juvenile. Also, as a project manager I'm not your buddy, I'm here to make sure communication flows and stuff gets done.



I felt that way as well, being an supervising engineer, project manager; except they judged my communication too cold, and I was needing warmth. Which I laughed (to myself), I mean, they want warmth from a 50 year old engineer? Talk about looking in the wrong place. However, having used it more on the actual business side, in professional, and employee emails, I do think they are correct.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Really? That is disappointing. I can not stand emoji use in professional communication. I can see the value in netiquette, but emojis just make things seem too casual and even juvenile. Also, as a project manager I'm not your buddy, I'm here to make sure communication flows and stuff gets done.



Times change, old man. Emojis are the cat’s pajamas now. Gonna 23 skidoo…


----------



## Eltab

Snarf Zagyg said:


> THAT'S WHAT ALL-CAPS IS FOR! TO MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THAT WHAT I AM SAYING IS VERY IMPORTANT!!111!!!!!!



Now I need a set of earplugs for my eyes.
You made the windows at my place rattle.


----------



## darjr

Osgood said:


> PS. I've never seen any Critical Role, so I can't speak to it specifically, but how did this thread get derailed so fast?!



Sorry. It was my crystal clear hatred for traditional D&D gamers, you see.


----------



## Cadence

Most appropriate user name ever?


----------



## Cadence

All these years of playing, and I never sussed out that 5e Fighters and Rogues are apparently the same class, ditto for Clerics and Wizards.


----------



## Cadence

Holy cow.  What crawled up your @$$ and died today?


----------



## BookTenTiger

Your experiences are specific, not universal. They are valid to you, but don't describe my experiences or many others' experiences.

I feel like I could copy and paste this into multiple threads.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> Your experiences are specific, not universal. They are valid to you, but don't describe my experiences or many others' experiences.




Or ... perhaps I am merely imagining the rest of you, and when I close my eyes you disappear?

Oh.... THE POWER!


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or ... perhaps I am merely imagining the rest of you, and when I close my eyes you disappear?
> 
> Oh.... THE POWER!



Please don't close your eyes, Snarf! I want to live! I want to live!!!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> Please don't close your eyes, Snarf! I want to live! I want to live!!!




I'm doing my best for you ... I'm doing my best ....


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm doing my best for you ... I'm doing my best ....



That isn’t …. voluntary.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> Holy cow.  What crawled up your @$$ and died today?



Sorry! Sorry. It was the cabbage.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or ... perhaps I am merely imagining the rest of you, and when I close my eyes you disappear?




I hope not - that would mean that you are personally responsible for all the evil in the world.  I mean, I know you're weird and all, but... that'd make you one seriously screwed up person.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> I hope not - that would mean that you are personally responsible for all the evil in the world.  I mean, I know you're weird and all, but... that'd make you one seriously screwed up person.




"It's better to be feared than loved." 

_Tom Hanks, probably_


----------



## Richards

I had a high school math teacher who used to joke we were all just the scum on his eyeballs.

Johnathan


----------



## Morrus

Umbran said:


> I hope not - that would mean that you are personally responsible for all the evil in the world.  I mean, I know you're weird and all, but... that'd make you one seriously screwed up person.



Well, technically, there would be no evil in the world. He's just imagining it.


----------



## Cadence

Morrus said:


> Well, technically, there would be no evil in the world. He's just imagining it.



Is there just a thin line between imagining and lore spouting?


----------



## darjr

Dyson Logo's showed up in my thread about there map printed giant sized!!! Weeeee!!!


----------



## BookTenTiger

darjr said:


> Dyson Logo's showed up in my thread about there map printed giant sized!!! Weeeee!!!



You should definitely post this in that thread!


----------



## Umbran

Morrus said:


> Well, technically, there would be no evil in the world. He's just imagining it.




The evil is as real as the last meal he ate.  Since he hasn't starved to death, that must be pretty real.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> The evil is as real as the last meal he ate.  Since he hasn't starved to death, that must be pretty real.




Some of us are far too occupied by more important things to be worried about concepts like "good" and "evil."


----------



## Cadence

"I understand that you think blue is distinct enough from green to deserve it's own word.  But that's only because some people decided to make products with blue and you've spent all of your time in an environment like that.  If you hadn't been subjected to that your conceptual space wouldn't be so limited and you would appreciate it was all green."  ?


----------



## darjr

No one can hear you scream in conceptual space!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> No one can hear you scream in conceptual space!


----------



## Cadence

"Just because a lot of people say that the parts of Ulysses they skimmed or tried to read through seemed very different to them from other things they read doesn't mean it actually is.  I've never heard anyone explain exactly why I should think it's different.  It's all just words on paper and the distinctions are artificial.  Most people who actually seriously try it find it just as readable, if not moreso, than anything else.  And I say that still liking other literature."


----------



## darjr

Of coarse any news means bad news. Bleh. I see through you.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

The only real cheese sandwich is a Croque Monsieur.

Fight me.


----------



## Parmandur

Confession: I post in other threads to avoid posting in this one.


----------



## Cadence

"If you opened your mind, you'd see yellow was just green too."


----------



## BookTenTiger

It amazes me that I can 100% disagree with a poster in one thread, and then 100% agree with them in the next...


----------



## darjr

well dangit.


----------



## J.Quondam

Oops. If there was a "I probably shouldn't have commented in another thread" thread, I'd post there.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "If you opened your mind, you'd see yellow was just green too."




You want to go back in.

You think that this time it will be different.

Spoiler alert: it won’t.


----------



## Cadence

"People are born and they die.  They all eventually lose to death and are therefore interchangeable in the story."


----------



## BookTenTiger

Cadence said:


> "People are born and they die.  They all eventually lose to death and are therefore interchangeable in the story."



I bet this was your reply for the Cheese Sandwich thread.


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> I bet this was your reply for the Cheese Sandwich thread.



Dammit! "Interchangeable in the sandwich." Stupid auto-correct!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Dammit! "Interchangeable in the sandwich." Stupid auto-correct!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Oh ... and there's this ...

"There's nothing like the zeal of the newly converted."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Story now police
Arrest this man
He talks in jargon
He buzzes like a fridge
He's like a detuned radio

Story now police
Arrest this girl
Her OSR hairdo
Is making me feel ill
And we have crashed her party

This is what you'll get
This is what you'll get
This is what you'll get
When you mess with us

Story now police
I've given all I can
It's not enough
I've given all I can
But we're still commenting on the thread

This is what you'll get
This is what you'll get
This is what you'll get
When you mess with us

For a minute there
I lost myself, I lost myself
Phew, for a minute there
I lost myself, I lost myself

For a minute there
I lost myself, I lost myself
Phew, for a minute there
I lost myself, I lost myself


----------



## Umbran

So, this is the "I didn't comment" thread.  If you comment such that... everyone knows what you're commenting about, you aren't really _not_ commenting.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> So, this is the "I didn't comment" thread.  If you comment such that... everyone knows what you're commenting about, you aren't really _not_ commenting.




Delayed gratification (?) is hard!  :-/


----------



## J.Quondam

No comment.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> So, this is the "I didn't comment" thread.  If you comment such that... everyone knows what you're commenting about, you aren't really _not_ commenting.




Sure, but you're also not threadcrapping on another thread,

I mean, it's hard enough to avoid the dopamine rush for commenting on the thread in question ...


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sure, but you're also not threadcrapping on another thread,
> 
> I mean, it's hard enough to avoid the dopamine rush for commenting on the thread in question ...




On the other hand, it feels like if there was an official "subtweet" thread it would get obnoxious really quickly... and it would be sad if that's what this turned into.  

I will attempt not to real-time it as much as I've been doing today - or to force myself to do so much more opaquely and obliquely.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> On the other hand, it feels like if there was an official "subtweet" thread it would get obnoxious really quickly...




I would agree, except to the extent that it's the same thread that we've seen already seen repeat itself over and over again.

It's more ... meta-commentary.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sure, but you're also not threadcrapping on another thread,
> 
> I mean, it's hard enough to avoid the dopamine rush for commenting on the thread in question ...




Which is why I point it out nice, and not in red text and all.  This can totally be about the frustration of when you recognize you ought to keep your mouth shut.  But if it becomes about passive-aggressive posting where we don't think anyone's watching, it will get closed.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Which is why I point it out nice, and not in red text and all.  This can totally be about the frustration of when you recognize you ought to keep your mouth shut.  But if it becomes about passive-aggressive posting where we don't think anyone's watching, it will get closed.




Sure.

If you think that this joke thread with people posting in it instead of posting in other threads is really the issue, then maybe it should be closed.

...or perhaps not, given it started over a year ago, and has been used to vent about multiple threads, but what do I know?


----------



## Cadence

I would be very sad if it got closed


----------



## Richards

For the longest time, I thought the Radiohead lyrics were "I'm a creep, I'm a widow..." and I couldn't figure out just what _that _was supposed to mean.

Johnathan


----------



## prabe

Richards said:


> For the longest time, I thought the Radiohead lyrics were "I'm a creep, I'm a widow..." and I couldn't figure out just what _that _was supposed to mean.
> 
> Johnathan



Yorke is ... notoriously difficult to understand.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Yorke is ... notoriously difficult to understand.




I'lll say! At half of the Radiohead concerts I have been to, Yorke has gone on some kind of rant about how the croque monsieur is the best of all sandwiches, and the king of the grilled cheese. Which really raises a lot of questions- after all, given that he is a vegan, is this some sort of Proust-ian reverie, his madeleine? Has he found a really good and melt-y vegan cheese?

Other people might be keying on things like the ham, but really, what about the béchamel sauce? What is Yorke's secret? I think he mumbled the recipe at one concert, but I could not make out the words- probably because he was noshing on one of his famous sammies.

Anyway, at one of the shows, someone in the crowd called out, "Croque Madame, you poseur!" And that just set him off. He was just like ... "What? An egg? You can't just put eggs on anything you want and make them something new!" And then he segued into that song ... _Every egg in its right place_.

Guy can put on a show. And make a mean vegan croque monsieur.


----------



## Retreater

Frustration vent incoming, not connected to any thread; however, my frustration could leak over into other threads, so it's better to quarantine it here.
I have a group that's gotten notorious for cancelling at the last minute, but still wanted me to keep a weekly game slot open for them. So I suggested moving to biweekly, and they still keep cancelling. And then I suggested that they can either make more of an effort to play (on the VTT), cancel with more notice, or we could take a break until everyone's schedule works out.
So half the guys gave no response at all, for two weeks now. Another guy wants to change up everything we're doing, but he's also one of the "unreliables." 
This is pretty darned frustrating. Hope everyone else is having better gaming experiences.


----------



## Ryujin

Retreater said:


> Frustration vent incoming, not connected to any thread; however, my frustration could leak over into other threads, so it's better to quarantine it here.
> I have a group that's gotten notorious for cancelling at the last minute, but still wanted me to keep a weekly game slot open for them. So I suggested moving to biweekly, and they still keep cancelling. And then I suggested that they can either make more of an effort to play (on the VTT), cancel with more notice, or we could take a break until everyone's schedule works out.
> So half the guys gave no response at all, for two weeks now. Another guy wants to change up everything we're doing, but he's also one of the "unreliables."
> This is pretty darned frustrating. Hope everyone else is having better gaming experiences.



Not much better here. I hadn't played in several years then not too long ago had the opportunity to play, online, with a couple from Tennessee and a DM in France. The bunch of us are all fans of Zombie Orpheus Entertainment and met on their Facebook/Discord. Went well for a while, but the DM decided that with the way that France as 'dealing' with Covid, he had to get out for his own health.

Before that, I had an experience very much like yours. We had 5 players in the group. Two would routinely cancel at the last minute, with another couple cancelling intermittently and also with little notice. The two prime suspects both swore that they would be able to play more often if we could set up something online so I put together a rig so that they could attend live events, virtually, by effewctively giving them a seat at the table. We were already using a VTT and a projection table that I built, so just needed camera, mic, and computer for the virtual seat. One guy played this way, twice, then ghosted. The other kept begging off.


----------



## Cadence




----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


>


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


>


----------



## J.Quondam

Deset Gled said:


>




Welp, next time I need some background music for a speakeasy in Innsmouth or something, I know right where to look! 



> _. . .
> _​_I thought I told you to leave me_​_While I walked down to the beach_​_Tell me, how does it feel_​_When your heart grows cold
> 
> . . . _​


----------



## Retreater

Decided to post here instead of in a thread that was threatening to get my blood boiling.
Anyways, my inconsistent D&D group is moving to Board Game Arena for the time being. That's going to give us less pressure for regular attendance and we'll get to try some new games.
So that's my good gaming news for the day. How about you?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Retreater said:


> So that's my good gaming news for the day. How about you?




I'm thinking of starting a thread...

_Is D&D 5e a sandwich?_


----------



## Cadence

Retreater said:


> Decided to post here instead of in a thread that was threatening to get my blood boiling.
> Anyways, my inconsistent D&D group is moving to Board Game Arena for the time being. That's going to give us less pressure for regular attendance and we'll get to try some new games.
> So that's my good gaming news for the day. How about you?



Nothing for today in particular, but both groups seem to be steady with two weeks  off around Thanksgiving, and then back on.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm thinking of starting a thread...
> 
> _Is D&D 5e a sandwich?_



DO IT


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> DO IT




I have to, now, don't I?

.... you're a terrible influence, prabe.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have to, now, don't I?
> 
> .... you're a terrible influence, prabe.




I expect a truly legendary and tasty intro.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have to, now, don't I?
> 
> .... you're a terrible influence, prabe.



I AM BEST INFLUENCE

SEARCH YOUR FEELINGS

YOU KNOW THIS TO BE THE TRUETH


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm thinking of starting a thread...
> 
> _Is D&D 5e a sandwich?_



A good question to ask.
A better question would be..._is D&D a hot dog?_


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> Decided to post here instead of in a thread that was threatening to get my blood boiling.
> Anyways, my inconsistent D&D group is moving to Board Game Arena for the time being. That's going to give us less pressure for regular attendance and we'll get to try some new games.
> So that's my good gaming news for the day. How about you?



My bros and sisters in law were going to get together tomorrow and do some board games. Instead, they got reservations at Betty Dangers supper club for drinks at 6. Then, we are going out for dive bar karaoke to close the night. Im ok with it.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> A good question to ask.
> A better question would be..._is D&D a hot dog?_



If it is a burrito, what fillings would correspond to each edition?


----------



## CleverNickName

I mean, we've already done the "is D&D like a pizza?" thread, so...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> A good question to ask.
> A better question would be..._is D&D a hot dog?_




Too late ....









						D&D 5E - Is D&D 5e a Sandwich?
					

That's right. You read the title. Search your feelings. You always knew that the internet would throw this at you, with the inevitability of your uncle forwarding you an email that you don't want to read.  The ancient hotness: Is a hot dog a sandwich?  Yesterday's hawt taek: Is a taco a...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## darjr

Just because you can do it doesn’t mean you should have!


----------



## Cadence

I want to post something from Prairie Home Companion.  And then I want to say dammit Garrison Keillor.  And then I think of Click and Clack


----------



## Cadence

What would the internet, and personal productivity around the world, be like if people picked their battles even a little?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Just because you can do it doesn’t mean you should have!




I ... I'm not familiar with those words.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Cadence said:


> What would the internet, and personal productivity around the world, be like if people picked their battles even a little?



Then again, maybe we are avoiding the development of terrible new weapons of war because people are instead spending all their productive time arguing on the internet?


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> Then again, maybe we are avoiding the development of terrible new weapons of war because people are instead spending all their productive time arguing on the internet?



<snipped discussion on if some other countries get those weapons and not ones own, and something about budgets should get you things first>


----------



## J.Quondam

I AM OFFENDED THAT I THINK THAT YOU ARE OFFENDED!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> I AM OFFENDED THAT I THINK THAT YOU ARE OFFENDED!




I AM OFFENDED THAT YOU ARE OFFENDED THAT YOU THINK THAT I AM OFFENDED, BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED AT MY OFFENSE!!!!!11!!!!


----------



## darjr

When’s it end Dian?!?


----------



## darjr

But what if I am stupid?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> But what if I am stupid?


----------



## billd91

So much badwrongfun all over the place. It's been quite a month of judgeyness.


----------



## CleverNickName

"If anyone has a problem with the way I do things, they can just leave!"
...
"Hello?  Where is everybody?  Why do you all hate fun?"


----------



## Eltab

Cadence said:


> What would the internet, and personal productivity around the world, be like if people picked their battles even a little?



The Internet would be less heated - closer to room temperature - without so many people trying to out-upcast _Fireball_ at each other.

Productivity?  Gotta find out how much of the arguments are being conducted on the sly from work.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> "If anyone has a problem with the way I do things, they can just leave!"
> ...
> "Hello?  Where is everybody?  Why do you all hate fun?"



I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack forums on fire off the edge of Google. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Banhammer Gate.


----------



## Cadence

Eltab said:


> Productivity?  Gotta find out how much of the arguments are being conducted on the sly from work.




I'll check into that on Monday!


----------



## Malmuria

OHHHH...so _this_ thread is where all the fun is


----------



## payn

Fun is over, Malmuria showed up


----------



## darjr

My own comments contain the truth that is my demise. I hope he doesn’t notice. Though I’m sure he will.


----------



## Malmuria

I'm fun at parties, I swear


----------



## Cadence

The slope is slippery in this one.


----------



## MoonSong

Wanted to post in that thread. I really had an opinion. But I was less than one third of the way and three banned people already?  No thanks I don't need to justify myself to others that bad. Too much drama. (And this is coming from a self-professed drama queen) n.n


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

On the one hand, I kinda sorta wanna post a reference to Tropic Thunder.

On the other hand ... HELLS NO.


----------



## CleverNickName

Me, yesterday:  Hmm, maybe if I cite the Golden Rule?
Me, today:  Maybe I'll try Wheaton's Law instead?
Me, tomorrow probably:  Do I need to use sock puppets?


----------



## Eltab

CleverNickName said:


> Me, tomorrow probably:  Do I need to use sock puppets?



A video that uses a shoebox as a stage and has two hands-in-stockings that talk, would be unique and memorable.  Hopefully memorable in a good way.

Creating a couple of alias-monikers ... nah, that's a can of worms today and an embarrassing incident waiting to happen tomorrow.


----------



## Ryujin

Eltab said:


> A video that uses a shoebox as a stage and has two hands-in-stockings that talk, would be unique and memorable.  Hopefully memorable in a good way.
> 
> Creating a couple of alias-monikers ... nah, that's a can of worms today and an embarrassing incident waiting to happen tomorrow.



Had a guy on a motorcycle forum who had two sock puppets. He would routinely get into arguments with them. The real kicker? It was an old forum app that actually displayed the origin IP under the poster's name, in a font that was a few sizes smaller. Everyone _knew_ that he was arguing with himself except, apparently, him.


----------



## MoonSong

CleverNickName said:


> Me, tomorrow probably:  Do I need to use sock puppets?



_/Gasp_/

*CleverNickName was the sockpuppet all along!... But wait, Danny was the sockpuppet! OMG CleverNickname was DannyAlcatraz all along!  What a twist!
*


Spoiler: Context



Sorry, it isn't a fast read. 








						D&D 5E - So long and thanks for all the fish!
					

It seems that, in this forum, if you make a post that people don't agree with you get a terse response and then ignored. I would have thought that with a role playing game people would be up for some debate, but it seems that people are so set on their own views they can't take any form of...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## darjr

But what if it's THIS thread?


----------



## Cadence

If repeatedly saying how one didn't like something could make entire fields of study go away... a lot of University students would be much happier with their course schedules!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> If repeatedly saying how one didn't like something could make entire fields of study go away... a lot of University students would be much happier with their course schedules!




To paraphrase Lou Reed, I wish that I was born a thousand years ago .... so there wouldn't be so much history to learn.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> If repeatedly saying how one didn't like something could make entire fields of study go away... a lot of University students would be much happier with their course schedules!



"We want to get a diploma so that we can get high paying jobs, but why does it have to involve so much _LEARNING_?"


----------



## MoonSong

Ryujin said:


> "We want to get a diploma so that we can get high paying jobs, but why does it have to involve so much _LEARNING_?"



To be honest, more recently it is less "high paying jobs" and more "pay enough jobs". Credentialism and grade inflation are a thing....


----------



## Deset Gled

MoonSong said:


> To be honest, more recently it is less "high paying jobs" and more "pay enough jobs". Credentialism and grade inflation are a thing....




I didn't post in the thread that triggered an internal rant about how our society treats academia and education for different types of jobs and careers.

Wait...

Dammit.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

MoonSong said:


> To be honest, more recently it is less "high paying jobs" and more "pay enough jobs". Credentialism and grade inflation are a thing....




On a related note, the Venn Diagram of "People Who Don't Think Servers Should Be Tipped" and "People Who Don't Understand Why Anyone Would Be In a Union"  .....

is, as always, a perfect circle. 

I suspect a correlation with living wage issues as well.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> What would the internet, and personal productivity around the world, be like if people picked their battles even a little?




 All of my battles are carefully curated, and I still don't have enough time in a 24-hr. day to fight them.


----------



## Eltab

Cadence said:


> If repeatedly saying how one didn't like something could make entire fields of study go away... a lot of University students would be much happier with their course schedules!



A lot of students would run out of classes to take and would have to graduate.  

Maybe before going hopelessly into debt.  Would that be a silver lining?


----------



## darjr

Jmarso said:


> Best series evah!
> 
> "Hey, I can't wait to go to the crappy little town where _I'm_ a hero!"  -Wash




That’d be every town. Every Gorram one of em.


----------



## Cadence

'No!  I insist.  Just trying to be "good" is the enemy of "perfect" and is therefore "bad".'


----------



## darjr

It’s is nice to see people putting in work to make things better than the folk that just spoil a perfectly good thread with lame arguments in a lame attempt to bend people to their game style.


----------



## billd91

Speaking of social skills, it would be nice if some people used their social skills in these forums. (I know, I know - I'm not always rolling on the upper half of that d20 around here either...)


----------



## darjr

Ope!


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Speaking of social skills, it would be nice if some people used their social skills in these forums. (I know, I know - I'm not always rolling on the upper half of that d20 around here either...)




I'd have a lot easier time if folks asked themselves, in the way of the memes...
Is what I'm saying true?  In what sense is it true?
Is what I'm saying necessary, or at least helpful?
Is what I am saying kind?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I'm just super tired of the "my fun is the right way/_superior _way" attitude that seems to pop up fairly frequently. There's not many "badwrongfun"-ers, but they're stubborn, and fairly skilled at pretending their attitude is reasonable. "That's not D&D anymore" and "Go play a different system/stop trying to turn D&D into something it _isn't_" are very common "dogwhistles" that I've seen used in this manner. I'm just really tired of it, especially with how it affects threads that I was genuinely interested in.


----------



## darjr

The bad wrong fun folks are so much worse when they think they are on a crusade and must turn things toward their style, and more so when they actually suffer the delusion they can.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

darjr said:


> The bad wrong fun folks are so much worse when they think they are on a crusade and must turn things toward their style, and more so when they actually suffer the delusion they can.



Yeah, the Hero Complex is super annoying. "No, you're not the savior of D&D, no one asked you to be that, and D&D isn't under attack." Tilting at windmills combined with a smidge of narcissism. It's extremely annoying.


----------



## CleverNickName

I could do without threadcrapping.

"Hey everyone!  I wrote a new (thing), and I'd like to get some feedback on how to make it better.  What do you think?"
#1:  "Looks like it could be fun!  I'd change that one bit here..."
#2:  "Not my cup of tea, but thanks for making something new!"
#3:  "Cool idea, nice work!  I think it would work just fine the way it is."
#4:  "People are still talking about (thing)s?  Everyone knows that (thing)s are terrible, and people who use them are also terrible.  Basically you just wasted everyone's time, I hope you're satisfied."

That fourth guy really gets on my nerves.


----------



## Umbran

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, the Hero Complex is super annoying. "No, you're not the savior of D&D, no one asked you to be that, and D&D isn't under attack." Tilting at windmills combined with a smidge of narcissism. It's extremely annoying.




The psychology that is frequently behind such is one of those "if not careful, we are prisoners of our limbic system" things.  It can happen to anyone when we aren't being watchful for it.

While the outward behavior is one of confidence, and being a hero to save the game, the reality is often different.  It is often less that they think D&D is under attack, and they are the chosen heroes, and more that  _they themselves_ are under attack - their approach to the game is part of their identity, so when something comes up that calls for the approach to be questioned, the emotional reaction is as if they themselves are being questioned.  The bravado and hero stance is a bit of bravado in the face of having their own validity questioned.

This drives a lot of the internet, and is a lot of the reason why evidence and logic often don't have a lot of impact.


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, the Hero Complex is super annoying. "No, you're not the savior of D&D, no one asked you to be that, and D&D isn't under attack." Tilting at windmills combined with a smidge of narcissism. It's extremely annoying.



It's like with the Edition Wars. I've played every version of D&D that's been released, right back to the Basic, and you know what's better? Playing D&D, instead of not playing D&D.


----------



## J.Quondam

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, the Hero Complex is super annoying. "No, you're not the savior of D&D, no one asked you to be that, and D&D isn't under attack." Tilting at windmills combined with a smidge of narcissism. It's extremely annoying.



A "smidge"? You're being a little charitable, aren't you?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Ryujin said:


> It's like with the Edition Wars. I've played every version of D&D that's been released, right back to the Basic, and you know what's better? Playing D&D, instead of not playing D&D.



Yeah. But instead of the battle of different editions of D&D (and Pathfinder), it's a battle between different playstyles (often with some sort of false dichotomy, like Roleplayers versus Powergamers, Survival Campaigns/Dungeon Crawling versus Character-Centric plots, DM-Driven Narratives versus Player-Driven Narratives, and so on). The only type of wrong fun is fun that comes at the expense of other people. As long as everyone is having fun with the game they're at, and they aren't hurting/taking advantage of anyone else, they're playing D&D correctly. It really shouldn't be that hard to get, but it is, apparently.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

J.Quondam said:


> A "smidge"? You're being a little charitable, aren't you?



Guilty as charged.


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah. But instead of the battle of different editions of D&D (and Pathfinder), it's a battle between different playstyles (often with some sort of false dichotomy, like Roleplayers versus Powergamers, Survival/Dungeon Crawling versus Character-Centric plots, DM-Driven Narratives versus Player-Driven Narratives, and so on). The only type of wrong fun is fun that comes at the expense of other people. As long as everyone is having fun with the game they're at, and they aren't hurting/taking advantage of anyone else, they're playing D&D correctly. It really shouldn't be that hard to get, but it is, apparently.



"But I'm just playing my character!" - Gary, "The Gamers: Dorkness Rising"


----------



## darjr

Ope!


----------



## darjr

The silly thing is they could have started a thread all about how they like to play the game and not been a thread capper and probably would have had people happily join in. Which would have helped their “cause” instead of making it look all the worse.


----------



## Cadence

It makes me sad that you've seemingly played with more really awful players and DMs than every single in person gamer I know has combined.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> The silly thing is they could have started a thread all about how they like to play the game and not been a thread capper and probably would have had people happily join in. Which would have helped their “cause” instead of making it look all the worse.




One of our moderators of the past, Piratecat, put it something like this: "I double-dog dare you to describe how totally awesome your favorite (game/playstyle) is, _WITHOUT_ comparing it to any others."


----------



## BookTenTiger

Umbran said:


> One of our moderators of the past, Piratecat, put it something like this: "I double-dog dare you to describe how totally awesome your favorite (game/playstyle) is, _WITHOUT_ comparing it to any others."



I miss Piratecat! He was such a big presence here when I first came on, way back in the day.


----------



## darjr

D&D sold out! It was better when it wasn’t commercial and popular and mainstream and so different.

Oh, you mean like the wood grain box?

No I mean 3.5.

Uh?


----------



## prabe

Wow. This argument again. While there's another thread dedicated to it going.

I'm sure it'll get settled this time.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Wow. This argument again. While there's another thread dedicated to it going.
> 
> I'm sure it'll get settled this time.



I'm a mod on a rather large Canadian motorcycle forum. We finally had enough of this sort of crap and rather than deal with all of those garbage threads individually (people who hate cops for no specific reason, Anti-Vaxxers, etc.) we created specific mass threads where we send such posts to die.


----------



## Umbran

BookTenTiger said:


> I miss Piratecat! He was such a big presence here when I first came on, way back in the day.




Had dinner with him a few weeks ago.  He's doing well.


----------



## Gradine

BookTenTiger said:


> I miss Piratecat! He was such a big presence here when I first came on, way back in the day.



Piratecat is the person who sold me on _Dread_. Just a great guy.


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> Piratecat is the person who sold me on _Dread_. Just a great guy.



Same here.  I never would have discovered that awesome game without Piratecat.


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> Same here.  I never would have discovered that awesome game without Piratecat.




I just mentioned Dread in another conversation, and my first thought about it was PC's "Jenga beat up my dice" thread.


----------



## Gradine

Deset Gled said:


> I just mentioned Dread in another conversation, and my first thought about it was PC's "Jenga beat up my dice" thread.



I remember reading about how the game's creator always knew when that thread had been necro'd because he'd always get a small spike in sales when it did.


----------



## darjr

We both know why.


----------



## Not a Hobbit

Typical Posting pattern:
-Proceeds to speak about a certain topic
-Proceeds to tell everyone that they're not supposed to speak about the certain topic.
As long as you got the last word in. Congratulations.


----------



## Bolares

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm just super tired of the "my fun is the right way/_superior _way" attitude that seems to pop up fairly frequently. There's not many "badwrongfun"-ers, but they're stubborn, and fairly skilled at pretending their attitude is reasonable. "That's not D&D anymore" and "Go play a different system/stop trying to turn D&D into something it _isn't_" are very common "dogwhistles" that I've seen used in this manner. I'm just really tired of it, especially with how it affects threads that I was genuinely interested in.



I'm soooo tired of the "OH, THEY TURNED THIS FINE HOBBIE IN TO A GAME FOR KIDS AND MILLENIALS" rethoric... I just don't engage anymore because it all smells like bait.


----------



## darjr

When we started playing D&D we didn’t let the kids play! We made them wait till they were old enough, this isn’t a kids game!

How old were you?

Twelve.


----------



## Retreater

I came in at the beginning of 2E, when they were changing the hobby's tone to appeal to parents and to address the Satanic Panic. The tone was a friendlier game connected to 1980s epic fantasy. I didn't seek out the original feel of the game until I was in my 20s. 
Point is, they've been changing the game's feel for years, with every edition (and sometimes multiple times in the same edition).
And if they hadn't changed the tone in 2E, my mom wouldn't have allowed me to play. Changing the tone and making it more appropriate for the times opens doors for new players, like it did for me in 1990.


----------



## Cadence

That thing where the place you don't want to comment is the didn't comment thread...


----------



## darjr

Point of order, that isn’t a bikini


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Point of order, that isn’t a bikini




Ahem. It's called the _Swimsuit Edition. _

Some people are just old fashioned, and prefer the modesty of a one-piece.


----------



## RealAlHazred

When I played D&D, we were REBELS! We formed a group of often-scorned nerds and geeks into a cohesive, inclusive group celebrating DIVERSITY!

Which is why I'm telling you to CONFORM to the GROUP IDENTITY!


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ahem. It's called the _Swimsuit Edition. _
> 
> Some people are just old fashioned, and prefer the modesty of a one-piece.



Pint of order, while one could swim in that “suite” it wasn’t meant for that.

I’m not complaining, mind.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Pint of order, while one could swim in that “suite” it wasn’t meant for that.
> 
> I’m not complaining, mind.




Pint of order?

I tell ya, when I get into a pint, I get quite disorderly ....

I drink a whiskey drink, I drink a vodka drink
I drink a lager drink, I drink a cider drink
I sing the songs that remind me of the good times
I sing the songs that remind me of the elf-killing times!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> When I played D&D, we were REBELS! We formed a group of often-scorned nerds and geeks into a cohesive, inclusive group celebrating DIVERSITY!
> 
> Which is why I'm telling you to CONFORM to the GROUP IDENTITY!




I tell ya, kids today. You want rebellion? You want non-conformity?

There's nothing like getting together with 20,000 people and going to a Rage Against the Machine concert and screaming together, in unison, "Eff You, I won't do what you tell me ...."


...oh, wait.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I tell ya, kids today. You want rebellion? You want non-conformity?
> 
> There's nothing like getting together with 20,000 people and going to a Rage Against the Machine concert and screaming together, in unison, "Eff You, I won't do what you tell me ...."
> 
> 
> ...oh, wait.



You know what's sad?

A LOT of Brazil's rebelious rock bands from the 80s and 90s grew in to conservative reactionary old man that complain about the new generations now.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> You know what's sad?
> 
> A LOT of Brazil's rebelious rock bands from the 80s and 90s grew in to conservative reactionary old man that complain about the new generations now.




It's actually not that surprising, at all. 

I saw the documentary recently on the Velvet Underground on AppleTV (it is EXCELLENT). The drummer (Maureen "Moe" Tucker) was one of the first major female musicians in rock, and VU was the THE underground subversive art band. 

Well, Moe became quite the reactionary .... as did quite a few of the figures from the 60s and 70s. A lot of that love and freedom just curdled ... into something quite a bit meaner ... I GOT MINE, now go get stuffed, if you know what I mean.

Despite my joking about Rage, Zack and Tom (AFAIK) have remained relatively true to their origins, albeit perhaps less radical. But hey- age and all that.


----------



## billd91

Bolares said:


> You know what's sad?
> 
> A LOT of Brazil's rebelious rock bands from the 80s and 90s grew in to conservative reactionary old man that complain about the new generations now.



Eventually, we grow up to become our parents. 
And we certainly have our own Ted Nugents here in the US...


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Eventually, we grow up to become our parents.
> And we certainly have our own Ted Nugents here in the US...



Hell, you've got Nugents who are more Nugenty than ol' Ted himself.


----------



## Bolares

- Oh look, a new survivor thread!
-Ah, there's no Eberron option on it, guess I'm gonna wait for the next one.

-Oh look, the old one is over, let's engage on the new o... oops, all forgotten realms, guess we skip two in a row.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> - Oh look, a new survivor thread!
> -Ah, there's no Eberron option on it, guess I'm gonna wait for the next one.




Why would there be an option for the King of the Faeries?

_Do you amend it then; it lies in you:
Why would Forgotten Realms cross her Eberron? _


----------



## BookTenTiger

Ah, I did not realize that some people's personal experiences were more authoritative than other's. Noted!


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> Ah, I did not realize that some people's personal experiences were more authoritative than other's. Noted!




BookTenTiger, this is Internet.  Internet, BookTenTiger.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Why would there be an option for the King of the Faeries?
> 
> _Do you amend it then; it lies in you:
> Why would Forgotten Realms cross her Eberron? _



Sometimes I reeeally try, but I have no idea what you are saying Snarf


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Sometimes I reeeally try, but I have no idea what you are saying Snarf




_Of Eberron! what visions have I seen! Methought I was enamoured ... of an ass. _

Even if you don't always understand, just remember this- 

If Snarf's words have offended, think but this, and all is mended.
That you have but slumber'd here, while these ramblings did appear. 
And this weak and idle theme, no more yielding but a dream.
 Bolares, do not reprehend: If you pardon, Snarf will mend.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Of Eberron! what visions have I seen! Methought I was enamoured ... of an ass. _
> 
> Even if you don't always understand, just remember this-
> 
> If Snarf's words have offended, think but this, and all is mended.
> That you have but slumber'd here, while these ramblings did appear.
> And this weak and idle theme, no more yielding but a dream.
> Bolares, do not reprehend: If you pardon, Snarf will mend.



Else the Snarf a liar call.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Of Eberron! what visions have I seen! Methought I was enamoured ... of an ass. _
> 
> Even if you don't always understand, just remember this-
> 
> If Snarf's words have offended, think but this, and all is mended.
> That you have but slumber'd here, while these ramblings did appear.
> And this weak and idle theme, no more yielding but a dream.
> Bolares, do not reprehend: If you pardon, Snarf will mend.



The Bard, indeed!


----------



## Bolares




----------



## prabe

@Bolares 

If English isn't your first language (and I think I remember it isn't) you might be missing some Shakespearean allusions, here. In _A Midsummer Night's Dream_ Oberon is the King of Fairies (so punning on that with Eberron). I believe @Snarf Zagyg is riffing on one or more of Puck's speeches from the same play.


----------



## Bolares

prabe said:


> @Bolares
> 
> If English isn't your first language (and I think I remember it isn't) you might be missing some Shakespearean allusions, here. In _A Midsummer Night's Dream_ Oberon is the King of Fairies (so punning on that with Eberron). I believe @Snarf Zagyg is riffing on one or more of Puck's speeches from the same play.



I had assumed our bard was quoting THE bard, but wasn't sure, thank you! There's a law in Brazil where we can only learn Shakespear if Leonardo DiCaprio is on the film.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> @Bolares
> 
> If English isn't your first language (and I think I remember it isn't) you might be missing some Shakespearean allusions, here. In _A Midsummer Night's Dream_ Oberon is the King of Fairies (so punning on that with Eberron). I believe @Snarf Zagyg is riffing on one or more of Puck's speeches from the same play.




Wait .... was that it? Oh, man.

I was sure I was quoting Matthew WIlder!


----------



## Cadence

Oh, the comfort—
the inexpressible comfort of being ignored by a poster—
having neither to weigh nor measure their words,
but having them out of sight,
just as they are,
chaff and waste together;
certain that another hand will take and sift them,
restate what is worthy,
and then with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.


-with credit to Dinah Maria Mulock Craik's "A Life for a Life"


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> Oh, the comfort—
> the inexpressible comfort of being ignored by a poster—
> having neither to weigh nor measure their words,
> but having them out of sight,
> just as they are,
> chaff and waste together;
> certain that another hand will take and sift them,
> restate what is worthy,
> and then with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.
> 
> 
> -with credit to Dinah Maria Mulock Craik's "A Life for a Life"



Earlier today I was like: "wait, how did he just delete his post, it dissap... oh, okay then, I guess I offended him by calling him a Sith"


----------



## Cadence

Bolares said:


> Earlier today I was like: "wait, how did he just delete his post, it dissap... oh, okay then, I guess I offended him by calling him a Sith"



I don't even think I replied to anything of this one's recently...  It's my first (that I've noticed) so it felt like it should be memorialized.


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> I don't even think I replied to anything of this one's recently...  It's my first (I think) so it felt like it should be memorialized.



You never forget your first...


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I . . . I don't know what this thread is anymore.


----------



## Bolares

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I . . . I don't know what this thread is anymore.



Just nod and laugh, they won't be able to tell (It's been two weeks and no one outed me!)


----------



## Retreater

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I . . . I don't know what this thread is anymore.



Seems like you've got the right idea.


----------



## Ryujin

Bolares said:


> You never forget your first...



I forgot my first. Then I became a mod and you're not permitted to "ignore" a mod


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> I forgot my first. Then I became a mod and you're not permitted to "ignore" a mod



I’m ignoring you right now!


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> I’m ignoring you right now!


----------



## Umbran

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I . . . I don't know what this thread is anymore.




It may be the new Hive.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> I’m ignoring you right now!



I can confirm that the person on the forum in question was well displeased


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> I can confirm that the person on the forum in question was well displeased



Well duh! I just tole ya.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I . . . I don't know what this thread is anymore.




A lot of people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch of unconnected incidents and things. They don't realize that there's this, like, lattice of coincidence that lays on top of everything. Give you an example; show you what I mean: suppose you're thinking about PC script immunity. Suddenly someone'll say, like, PC, or script immunity, or start a thread asking about whether PCs at your table have script immunity out of the blue, no explanation.

No point in looking for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconsciousness.

And that, AcererakTriple6, is the point of this thread. It's all the kids at the back of the bus, who want to talk about the cosmic unconsciousness, but don't want to share with the class.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> And that, AcererakTriple6, is the point of this thread. It's all the kids at the back of the bus, who want to talk about the cosmic unconsciousness, but don't want to share with the class.




Was he talking about _this_ thread?  Or was the comment what he would have typed in the other thread?  Or are they the same thing in the great stream of threadiness?


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Despite my joking about Rage, Zack and Tom (AFAIK) have remained relatively true to their origins, albeit perhaps less radical. But hey- age and all that.




Relevant on many levels:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Was he talking about _this_ thread?  Or was the comment what he would have typed in the other thread?  Or are they the same thing in the great stream of threadiness?




Yes.

To quote one of my co-workers, "You eat a lot of acid, Snarf, back in the hippie days?"


----------



## darjr

I guess the adage applies to everyone. 

_blink blink_

Wow did I not expect this.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Was he talking about _this_ thread?  Or was the comment what he would have typed in the other thread?  Or are they the same thing in the great stream of threadiness?




There is a fundamental interconnectedness of all things.  He cannot, in fact, talk about one without talking about the others by extension.


----------



## Eltab

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Some people are just old fashioned, and prefer the modesty of a one-piece.



I find womens' one-piece swimsuits to be a superior fashion statement.


----------



## Umbran

Eltab said:


> I find womens' one-piece swimsuits to be a superior fashion statement.




Yep.  This is a new Hive.


----------



## darjr

yup

I can't spell or type or communicate.

In fact if you think you know what I mean by this post you're wrong.


----------



## darjr

I am not now, nor have I ever been, fast enough.


----------



## Eltab

Umbran said:


> Yep.  This is a new Hive.



Ask a bunch of women what they prefer and why.


----------



## Bolares

"I'm probably on thin ice but this diversity stuff is sure a slippery slope" GHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cadence

Whenever I try to pronounce her name, it always comes out as the first several syllables of the Hawaiian themed Christmas song...


----------



## Cadence

If FB catches you discussing FB somewhere, does that just get ignored by its algorithms?  Same as about google for google?  If you post about their competition will you start seeing ads for the competition?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Yesterday I walked away from an IRL conversation to which my only continued contribution could have been, "Yeah, well, back in _MY_ day, we didn't even _have_ a lawn to get off of..."


----------



## Malmuria

Won't the dnd players stop marginalizing the indie gamers?  When will the oppression end?? /s


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> Yesterday I walked away from an IRL conversation to which my only continued contribution could have been, "Yeah, well, back in _MY_ day, we didn't even _have_ a lawn to get off of..."




But, did that lawn have goats on it?


----------



## darjr

Oh wow oh wow oh wow!!! Lookit who posted!!!


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Oh wow oh wow oh wow!!! Lookit who posted!!!



I had to control myself too


----------



## BookTenTiger

darjr said:


> Oh wow oh wow oh wow!!! Lookit who posted!!!



You are now just 3 Degrees from Kevin Bacon!





__





						The Oracle of Bacon
					

Kevin Bacon numbers, link any actor to any other, the Center of the Hollywood Universe, and more



					oracleofbacon.org


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Oh wow oh wow oh wow!!! Lookit who posted!!!



Now I'm resisting the urge to start scrolling through all the recently updated threads...


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> Now I'm resisting the urge to start scrolling through all the recently updated threads...



Beadle and Grimm


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Beadle and Grimm




O.
M.
G.

I never knew that the B&G one was the actor one!!!!! I was the biggest fan of his ... never understood why he wasn't in more things. Seriously ... I feel like at least once a month I'm all like, "Why isn't {he} in more stuff?" And then the person I'm talking to will be like, "Who?" And I'll be like, "You know, he was in Scream." And they'll be like, "Who?" And then I'll be like, "SLC Punk?" And they'll be like, "Who?" And I'll be like, "You know ... Shaggy, in the live-action Scooby Doo?" And they'll be like, "Oh, yeah ... but anyway, do you want fries with that combo meal?"

The more you know!


----------



## dragoner

Snarf Zagyg said:


> O.
> M.
> G.
> 
> I never knew that the B&G one was the actor one!!!!! I was the biggest fan of his ... never understood why he wasn't in more things. Seriously ... I feel like at least once a month I'm all like, "Why isn't {he} in more stuff?" And then the person I'm talking to will be like, "Who?" And I'll be like, "You know, he was in Scream." And they'll be like, "Who?" And then I'll be like, "SLC Punk?" And they'll be like, "Who?" And I'll be like, "You know ... Shaggy, in the live-action Scooby Doo?" And they'll be like, "Oh, yeah ... but anyway, do you want fries with that combo meal?"
> 
> The more you know!



Hack the planet!


----------



## darjr

He’s been in all kinds of stuff!

Snarf GoFundYiurself (all meant in good humor please please please dunno report me)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> He’s been in all kids of stuff!




I know! But I’ve always thought he’d be a huge star (not that there’s anything wrong with just being an awesome guy and actor).


----------



## Retreater

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I know! But I’ve always thought he’d be a huge star (not that there’s anything wrong with just being an awesome guy and actor).



There's still a chance Marvel will find him.


----------



## darjr

Honestly this isn’t for you. Really.


----------



## Cadence

Because in a world with safety requirements for office chairs and keyboards and etc... there are some jobs that just can't be done to that safety standard.  Like just about anything in American football.


----------



## darjr

Sometimes it kinda kills me I can’t comment. Ah well.


----------



## Cadence

Did Schultz and Klink know what was happening in Auschwitz and the like?


----------



## Deset Gled

The number of responses I have written today and then deleted before posting is quite high.

I swear, I'm actually very very moderate on some topics, but it's nearly impossible to convey that without feeling like I'm swinging back and forth between two sides when I want to be on neither.


----------



## darjr

Fallen star said:


> The game survived the satanic panic of the 80's. It will survive the woke panic of the oh-20's. Just keep playing your old books.



Wow! Do I have an Indigogo for you!

*Mod Note:*  This direct commenting is uncool, and should not be repeated.  ~Umbran


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Wow! Do I have an Indigogo for you!



Okay, actually replying to the comment on this thread is just next level...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Okay, actually replying to the comment on this thread is just next level...




Still not thinking big enough.

Go galaxy brained.

Reply to a comment from THIS thread on another thread!


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Still not thinking big enough.
> 
> Go galaxy brained.
> 
> Reply to a comment from THIS thread on another thread!


----------



## BookTenTiger

I feel like I'm stuck between Waldorf and Statler, only they aren't making jokes...


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Yeah, there are a few threads in the D&D forum where I started to make a reply and then changed my mind because all they have become is 10 or 20 pages of the same few trolls in a circle jerk of negative comments that don't quite cross the line that would get them reported and banned. I just hope they wash their sock puppets when they are done.


----------



## Retreater

It's hard for me to not comment on these boards or to start a random thread, even if it has nothing to do with games. I really don't get to talk to friends anymore, so this is pretty much my only avenue for expression. Thanks for putting up with me.


----------



## BookTenTiger

As I strain to keep my fingers away from the Post Reply button, I repeat to myself through clenched teeth:

You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.

You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.

You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

BookTenTiger said:


> As I strain to keep my fingers away from the Post Reply button, I repeat to myself through clenched teeth:
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.



But . . . but . . . but . . .


----------



## Malmuria

BookTenTiger said:


> As I strain to keep my fingers away from the Post Reply button, I repeat to myself through clenched teeth:
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.



thank you, I needed this


----------



## CleverNickName

BookTenTiger said:


> As I strain to keep my fingers away from the Post Reply button, I repeat to myself through clenched teeth:
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.



Well not with _that _attitude.


----------



## Not a Hobbit

BookTenTiger said:


> As I strain to keep my fingers away from the Post Reply button, I repeat to myself through clenched teeth:
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.



Which is why most of the threads on this site are really just big circle jerks.


----------



## Bolares

BookTenTiger said:


> As I strain to keep my fingers away from the Post Reply button, I repeat to myself through clenched teeth:
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.
> 
> You're not going to change anyone's opinion on the internet.



I think you are wrong, and I'm going to change your opinion on that!!!


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Wow! Do I have an Indigogo for you!




*Mod Note:*
Hey!  This thread may be good for a little bit of discrete and indirect venting.  It is _NOT_ to be used as a place to directly comment where you hope people can't see.  That's uncool, and will get this thread closed.

I hope everyone has a clear grasp of this.  If it is somehow difficult to understand, please drop me a private message to discuss it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> I feel like I'm stuck between Waldorf and Statler




True story- when I was younger (you know, like the Cenozoic) people would often think about their favorite muppets.

Some people liked Kermit. Or Gonzo. Or Animal. Beaker. Maybe Fozzie Bear. Rowlf, for some. Dr. Teeth if you're into the funk. Swedish Chef. Pepe The Prawn.*

But me? I was a stan for Statler and Waldorf (and yes, it's always THAT order).



*Weirdly, no one ever picks Sam the Eagle. Truly, the bard of muppets.


----------



## prabe

So there's more than one way to One True Way. That seems ... ironic.


----------



## darjr

I was going to say DMsGuild! But then I realized how familiar this convo was and Lo! We had the exact same convo!


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *Weirdly, no one ever picks Sam the Eagle. Truly, the bard of muppets.



Oh, you know I gotta Stan for Sam the Eagle.



> But me? I was a stand for Statler and Waldorf (and yes, it's always THAT order).



Naturally you Stan for them.  What about Walforf's wife Astoria?


----------



## Malmuria




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Oh, you know I gotta Stan for Sam the Eagle.




...there's always one!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I came to find out about changes to the map in _The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan_, and a full fledged Andrea Dworkin debate broke out!

Who knew?


----------



## Cadence

Is bard pizza cannibalism or is it efficient justice?

Edit: bard pizza, not hard pizza! Doh!


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Is hard pizza cannibalism or is it efficient justice?




Did you get that from InspiroBot?


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Did you get that from InspiroBot?




Typo without reading glasses on! :-(


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Typo without reading glasses on! :-(




Ah.  Okay, in that case... I'm sorry, but bard pizza is not terribly efficient.  You know how much pizza dough you'd need to make to go through an entire bard?  How long would you nave to knead that stuff?  Not efficient at all.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Ah.  Okay, in that case... I'm sorry, but bard pizza is not terribly efficient.  You know how much pizza dough you'd need to make to go through an entire bard?  How long would you nave to knead that stuff?  Not efficient at all.




I was picturing as a topping (minus the brains which would go to feed good mind flayers).


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Ah.  Okay, in that case... I'm sorry, but bard pizza is not terribly efficient.  You know how much pizza dough you'd need to make to go through an entire bard?  How long would you nave to knead that stuff?  Not efficient at all.



OTOH making a bard into sausage would be very efficient, as it could supply many, many pizzas.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> OTOH making a bard into sausage would be very efficient, as it could supply many, many pizzas.




I am sure that in Snarf's world, there's big Bard Chippers they can be tossed in for the purpose.


----------



## darjr

OK, now what do I do?


----------



## Mad_Jack

darjr said:


> OK, now what do I do?




 Scream and panic. Then blame it on someone else.
If that's not relevant, try hitting it with a hammer.

In other news... 

 Dear person on that other forum with almost a dozen posts each asking similar questions, please learn to internet - this isn't Twitter, you can write more than one sentence in a post, and PUNCTUATION! Also, I am not about to explain everything step by step and/or post two dozen links for you when you can't be bothered to just type in "How to..." all by yourself and find the same damn thing.


----------



## billd91

The dirty secret: I don’t hate game systems, I hate *you*.


----------



## Bolares

I know you want to be mad, but can't you be mad elswhere? prefereably somewhere without an internet connection?


----------



## darjr

Wow! What a way to broadcast it! Congrats?


----------



## CleverNickName

I don't know how to break the news to certain people, that I don't need to use the "Ignore" button to ignore them.


----------



## BookTenTiger

CleverNickName said:


> I don't know how to break the news to certain people, that I don't need to use the "Ignore" button to ignore them.



One move I use as a teacher is just to totally ignore bad behavior, but in a way that's obvious I'm ignoring it. Like I'll look completely board and out the window and give a heavy sigh. It worked surprisingly well (with 3rd graders)!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> It worked surprisingly well (with 3rd graders)!




Well, yeah. But third graders have a higher emotional intelligence than your average internet commenter.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, yeah. But third graders have a higher emotional intelligence than your average internet commenter.



(Snarf stares out the window, looking bored and sighing...)


----------



## CleverNickName

...I'm sorry, did you say something?
I was miles away, thinking.  About anything else.


----------



## Mad_Jack

At the mall today a phone salesman approached me and was about to begin his pitch when I interrupted him by waving my hand in front of his face and saying, "Jedi Mind Trick", while walking past him. It's amazing how often this will stop people dead in their tracks long enough for you to escape...*



*
(Waving your hand quickly across their field of vision breaks their train of thought, and saying "Jedi Mind Trick" refocuses their brain on recalling the Star Wars movies - you can redirect their focus again by "implanting" a new thought, such as "You can't speak" or "He went that way" (while pointing to their right while you walk past on the left)... )


----------



## darjr

“Stop you know nothing!”

Hahahaha what a maroon. I fully expected this to contain multiple typos and laughed so much harder when I realized.


----------



## J.Quondam

"Get offa my lawn!"
"Sir, this is a Wendy's."


----------



## Eltab

CleverNickName said:


> I don't know how to break the news to certain people, that I don't need to use the "Ignore" button to ignore them.



Using the Ignore button allows them to figure out you are capital-I Ignoring them.
Whereas if you lowercase-i ignore them, they will never know.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Eltab said:


> Using the Ignore button allows them to figure out you are capital-I Ignoring them.
> Whereas if you lowercase-i ignore them, they will never know.




Well, that can be pretty passive-aggressive, too. It's certainly your right, but I wouldn't ignore someone just to tell them I'm ignoring them. 

I use ignore mainly to help me keep my cool. Sometime I need a break from an individual. Maybe it's them, maybe it's me. So I put them on ignore for a while and chill out. Usually works pretty well! By the time I un-ignore them a little while later, I've usually forgotten whatever they were doing to anger my blood.  There are two people I've had to keep on perma-ignore, but that's neither here nor there.

In general, if someone is so noxious that I absolutely have to keep them on ignore, then they'll probably get booted from the site sooner rather than later.


----------



## Cadence

That was the strangest misspelling of "obnoxious' I've ever seen...


----------



## Galandris

If I am ignoring someone, I could care less about them knowing it. If it hurts their feeling... too bad?


----------



## Mannahnin

BookTenTiger said:


> One move I use as a teacher is just to totally ignore bad behavior, but in a way that's obvious I'm ignoring it. Like I'll look completely board and out the window and give a heavy sigh. It worked surprisingly well (with 3rd graders)!



One of my college professors told a story about how he taught a freshman class about Classical Conditioning, and they proceeded to use it on him in another course, en masse. 

While he was lecturing, they would look bored and unfocused, or even stare off into space, while he was standing on one side of the room, but attentive and engaged when he was standing on the other.  Gradually over the semester they moved him closer and closer to the window as he spoke, finally only paying complete attention if he was standing by the window, holding/playing with the cord for the blinds in one hand.


----------



## Cadence

"#%@!   Stop just reading the cover blurbs!  I write novels for a reason!"  ;-)


----------



## Cadence

This one is here because it doesn't really go with the other thread, but it feels wrong here because it isn't snarky.

Just finished "Game Wizards" and now I want to go back and re-read "Marvel Comics: The Untold Story".   Is there a Joseph Campbell-esque set of business archetypes companies fall into?


----------



## Malmuria

those books are intended for children, snarf.


----------



## Bolares

Malmuria said:


> those books are intended for children, snarf.



HOW DARE YOU IMPLY SNARF IS AN ADULT!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> those books are intended for children, snarf.




I will not stand by idly and see this type of child abuse!

Children deserve better books. Not a "device of time journeying" and .... kender. 

True fact: Every kender is a bard.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> True fact: Every kender is a bard.



Keep following this thread and people will start calling you a kender bard... do you really want that for you Snarf?


----------



## darjr

Bard from many tables you mean


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Keep following this thread and people will start calling you a kender bard... do you really want that for you Snarf?




Bolares ... I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Bolares ... I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.



See, you're already acting like a kender


----------



## Cadence

Hmmmm.  Kender bard pizza...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> See, you're already acting like a kender




And that's another thing. I mean, yeah, "Destina" is your hero of destiny, sure.

And "kender" (aka, KINDER, the german word for CHILDREN as in kindergarten) are the little people, described as ever curious and cute .. and they were originally spelled kinder?

C'mon! They aren't even trying!!!!!!

It's like when I met this guy, who told me his dog's name was Diogee.

As an D-O-G. Ugh.


----------



## Bolares

Speaking of pizza, I find it funny how horrified Americans are of pinneaple in pizza. Have you ever seen what we put on them here in Brazil?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Speaking of pizza, I find it funny how horrified Americans are of pinneaple in pizza. Have you ever seen what we put on them here in Brazil?




Pineapple is actually a really common topping here.

I think most Americans would save their vitriol for New Zealanders, who seem eager to open up a can of Chef Boyardee and dump it on 'za.

Of course, I am increasingly of the belief that New Zealand (and Australia) aren't real countries, and have just been made up in order to spread tall tales of, among other things, pizza desecration.


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> And that's another thing. I mean, yeah, "Detina" is your hero of destiny, sure.
> 
> And "kender" (aka, KINDER, the german word for CHILDREN as in kindergarten) are the little people, described as ever curious and cute .. and they were originally spelled kinder?
> 
> C'mon! They aren't even trying!!!!!!
> 
> It's like when I met this guy, who told me his dog's name was Diogee.
> 
> As an D-O-G. Ugh.



And what are the weapons that kill dragons called?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> And what are the weapons that kill dragons called?




That was probably a last-minute editorial change. 

I'm sure they felt that Dragon Kill Weapons was too evocative.


----------



## Mannahnin

Bolares said:


> Speaking of pizza, I find it funny how horrified Americans are of pinneaple in pizza. Have you ever seen what we put on them here in Brazil?



Pineapple is fine.  Your Brazilian pizzas can't be more horrifying than what the Swedes do to poor pizzas.


----------



## Bolares

I'VE SEEN SUSHI ON TOP OF A PIZZA


----------



## CleverNickName

(CleverNickName has entered the chat)


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's like when I met this guy, who told me his dog's name was Diogee.
> 
> As an D-O-G. Ugh.



Reminds me of the character Ciocie Cioelle the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons. C-O-C-A C-O-L-A.


----------



## Bolares

French Fries on pizza...


----------



## Malmuria




----------



## darjr

Oh. I woke up in THAT universe today.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> French Fries on pizza...




So, why is it that (some) people insist on putting more carbs as the topping for pizza? Fundamentally, that's when you get bad (aka, "New Zealand-style") pizza.

Pizza already has ... um ... you know, bread? So the idea of adding pasta, or French fries, or doughnuts, as a topping to pizza goes against the very premise of pizza. It's nonsensical, like, "Good bard," or "Evocative and literary Dragonlance book."

This is why you will see toppings for pizzas usually divided into two types-
1. Meats.
2. Veggies.

Sometimes, you get more cheese, or different kinds of cheese, or Greece's sole contribution to Western civilization, Feta cheese ... but do you know what you never see?

3. Moar Karbs!!!!!!


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So, why is it that (some) people insist on putting more carbs as the topping for pizza? Fundamentally, that's when you get bad (aka, "New Zealand-style") pizza.
> 
> Pizza already has ... um ... you know, bread? So the idea of adding pasta, or French fries, or doughnuts, as a topping to pizza goes against the very premise of pizza. It's nonsensical, like, "Good bard," or "Evocative and literary Dragonlance book."
> 
> This is why you will see toppings for pizzas usually divided into two types-
> 1. Meats.
> 2. Veggies.
> 
> Sometimes, you get more cheese, or different kinds of cheese, or Greece's sole contribution to Western civilization, Feta cheese ... but do you know what you never see?
> 
> 3. Moar Karbs!!!!!!



Pizza is cheap and tasty, and restaurants started adding stuff to their menus to attract customers. That snowball got pretty big and nonsensical


----------



## darjr

Japanese cyberpunk? Dragonlance time travel? Multiverses of D&D?

Oh naughty word has Louis been right this whole time?!?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Pizza is cheap and tasty, and restaurants started adding stuff to their menus to attract customers. That snowball got pretty big and nonsensical




Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.



Just because you CAN'T doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.



Peepzza?


----------



## Malmuria

Hey everyone, I'm looking for a new game.  I mean, I'm not _actually_ looking for a new game, and if I was I'm perfectly capable of finding one for myself.  I just want to complain about a certain company in a new thread.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.



I hate this plane. Get me out.


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> I hate this plane. Get me out.



The worst part is... a lot of this pizzas are delicious. (that one specifically looks nasty though)


----------



## darjr

Bolares said:


> The worst part is... a lot of this pizzas are delicious. (that one specifically looks nasty though)



Oh it gets worse. This place is so twisted it makes that taste good?!?


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Oh it gets worse. This place is so twisted it makes that taste good?!?



maybe not THAT. But the damn french fries pizza. Yeah, that's dope (you will get a heart attack).


----------



## CleverNickName

Bolares said:


> Just because you CAN'T doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T



Just because YOU WON'T doesn't mean I SHOULDN'T.   

EDIT:  I wrote that in an attempt to be funny, but then I sat back and re-read it and thought, "you know...this probably sums up my response to every single 'badwrongfun' argument thread on ENWorld."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> maybe not THAT. But the damn french fries pizza. Yeah, that's dope (you will get a heart attack).




I got yer 'za right here, Bolares!






It's got all your basic Bolares food groups covered- 

Your cheeseburger group.
Your fries group.
...and your nuggets group.

The only thing it doesn't cover is the PIZZA GROUP BECAUSE THESE MONSTROSITIES AREN'T PIZZA!


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I got yer 'za right here, Bolares!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's got all your basic Bolares food groups covered-
> 
> Your cheeseburger group.
> Your fries group.
> ...and your nuggets group.
> 
> The only thing it doesn't cover is the PIZZA GROUP BECAUSE THESE MONSTROSITIES AREN'T PIZZA!



But is it a sandwich?


----------



## prabe

BUT THE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS IS A PIZZA A SANDWICH


----------



## darjr

Bolares said:


> maybe not THAT. But the damn french fries pizza. Yeah, that's dope (you will get a heart attack).



My son puts French fries in his burger. Or cheatoes


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> But is it a sandwich?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> BUT THE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS IS A PIZZA A SANDWICH




A pizza is a toast under the unified cube theory of foodstuffs.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I got yer 'za right here, Bolares!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's got all your basic Bolares food groups covered-
> 
> Your cheeseburger group.
> Your fries group.
> ...and your nuggets group.
> 
> The only thing it doesn't cover is the PIZZA GROUP BECAUSE THESE MONSTROSITIES AREN'T PIZZA!



I'de never order this.... but I'd eat it   

Most pizza places in brazil are "Rodizios". I don't know the word for it in english. but the waiter approaches your table with a pizza of one or two flavors, and you can ask for slices of it if you want. when that waiters leaves, another comes with a different pizza, and that goes on and on. It's usual for a restaurant to have more than 30 different toppings for their pizzas.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> A pizza is a toast under the unified cube theory of foodstuffs.



SO YOU'RE SAYING A BIG SLICE A LA NEW YORK IS A TACO

AND A DEEP SLICE ALA CHICAGO IS A BREAD BOWL

AND IF I TURN A PIZZA UPSIDE-DOWN ON ANOTHER PIZZA IT'S A SANDWICH

GOT IT


----------



## prabe

Bolares said:


> I'de never order this.... but I'd eat it
> 
> Most pizza places in brazil are "Rodizios". I don't know the word for it in english. but the waiter approaches your table with a pizza of one or two flavors, and you can ask for slices of it if you want. when that waiters leaves, another comes with a different pizza, and that goes on and on. It's usual for a restaurant to have more than 30 different toppings for their pizzas.



This parallels the way charruscarias (sp?) work in the US. I wouldn't have thought of pizza as supporting that model.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ah, the "is it a sandwich?" question.  It always comes up, and it always has the same answer.

Q:  Is (example) a sandwich?
A:  Only if you want it to be.

Seriously--you can define "sandwich" in several ways.  So if you have a deep-seated psychological _need _for pizza to be classified as 'an open-faced sandwich,' you should do so.  Classify away!

But getting others to agree with you on the Internet is an exercise in futility.  Case in point: (gestures broadly at the forum)


----------



## Bolares

prabe said:


> This parallels the way charruscarias (sp?) work in the US. I wouldn't have thought of pizza as supporting that model.



Yep, churrascarias are also rodizios


----------



## Malmuria

Oddly this is one of the few instances in which alignment is helpful


----------



## CleverNickName

Malmuria said:


> Oddly this is one of the few instances in which alignment is helpful
> 
> 
> View attachment 148503



GET ALIGNMENT OUT OF D&D!  IT'S HURTFUL AND OUTDATED AN--oh nevermind, it's a pizza joke.  Sorry about that, I guess I'm still on edge from reading that other thread.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pineapple is actually a really common topping here.
> 
> I think most Americans would save their vitriol for New Zealanders, who seem eager to open up a can of Chef Boyardee and dump it on 'za.
> 
> Of course, I am increasingly of the belief that New Zealand (and Australia) aren't real countries, and have just been made up in order to spread tall tales of, among other things, pizza desecration.



New Zealand was just invented by John Windham so that he had a place for his mutants to run away to, in "The Crysalids."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> But getting others to agree with you on the Internet is an exercise in futility.  Case in point: (gestures broadly at the forum)




That's why you need to go Galaxy-brained and change you goals!

Old hotness is arguing with people on the internet to get them to agree with you.

The new hotness? Arguing with people on the internet to get them to disagree with you.

That's right, CleverNickName. Don't play the haters' game- change the rules.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's why you need to go Galaxy-brained and change you goals!
> 
> Old hotness is arguing with people on the internet to get them to agree with you.
> 
> The new hotness? Arguing with people on the internet to get them to disagree with you.
> 
> That's right, CleverNickName. Don't play the haters game- change the rules.



Would it be trolling if I said I already disagree with you?


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> Would it be trolling if I said I already disagree with you?



I've never ever seen anyone disagree with snarf.... Until snarf makes them disagree by force.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Would it be trolling if I said I already disagree with you?




Not at all! 

How dare you disagree with me, and allow me to luxuriate in accomplishing my goal!

It's like I always say-
The masochist says, "Hurt me, hurt me."
And the sadist replies, "Naw."


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's why you need to go Galaxy-brained and change you goals!
> 
> Old hotness is arguing with people on the internet to get them to agree with you.
> 
> The new hotness? Arguing with people on the internet to get them to disagree with you.
> 
> That's right, CleverNickName. Don't play the haters' game- change the rules.



I ARGUE POSITIONS I DO NOT BELIEVE SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH MY ARGUMENT THEY AGREE WITH ME

HA HA HAHAHA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Bolares

prabe said:


> I ARGUE POSITIONS I DO NOT BELIEVE SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH MY ARGUMENT THEY AGREE WITH ME
> 
> HA HA HAHAHA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA



that's what I say when I don't want to admit I'm wrong


----------



## CleverNickName

Folks talking about old editions of D&D be like


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> But getting others to agree with you on the Internet is an exercise in futility.



Snarf's form there is a cool inspiration...

Old hotness: getting others to agree with you on the internet
New hotness: finding a few like-minded individuals, building something cool with the ideas you would have argued over, and presenting it to the internet as a _fait accompli._

Leading by argument is Sisyphean.  Leading by example might actually get somewhere.


----------



## Bolares

Annnd Umbran gets here and makes me ashamed of being a dick. typical Umbran...


----------



## Mannahnin

Bolares said:


> I'VE SEEN SUSHI ON TOP OF A PIZZA



I could actually see this, for certain fried/cooked varies of sushi, like eel or crab, maybe.



darjr said:


> My son puts French fries in his burger. Or cheatoes



Fries on a fast-food burger is a time-honored road trip tradition, especially if I'm eating while driving.  



Malmuria said:


> Oddly this is one of the few instances in which alignment is helpful
> 
> 
> View attachment 148503



There's a slightly-fancy brick oven pizza place near me that has a mac & cheese pizza, alongside all their GOOD options.  It's not terrible.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> New hotness: finding a few like-minded individuals, building something cool with the ideas you would have argued over, and presenting it to the internet as a _fait accompli._









Last night I had the strangest dream
I ate a bag of popcorn
Watchin' a mime play a bass horn
And you said you had the greatest scheme 
Wanted to present an idea as a fait accompli
What does that mean?
And you said

Ain't nothin' gonna to stop the corn
Nobody gonna slow corn down, oh no
Corn got to keep on selling
Ain't nothin' gonna stop the corn 
Corn is selling and we will eat it year-round
Oh no, corn has to keep on selling


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Last night I had the strangest dream
> ...




<Insert Steve Martin, "What the hell is that?" sequence here.>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> <Insert Steve Martin, "What the hell is that?" sequence here.>




It's what we can present to the internet as a _fait accompli_.

Behold, CORN! It's cool, and it's hot, and to quote the esteemed Magnitude, when it comes to corn ....


----------



## J.Quondam

After writing, then immediately deleting, yet another probably-too-tasteless post, I found myself wondering if jokes about dead (non-bard, non-elf, non-pizza-topping-related) people in freezers are, in fact, too tasteless.

Internetting is hard, sometimes.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

J.Quondam said:


> After writing, then immediately deleting, yet another probably-too-tasteless post, I found myself wondering if jokes about dead (non-bard, non-elf, non-pizza-topping-related) people in freezers are, in fact, too tasteless.



If it's discussing the trope of Women in Refrigerators, examples of its use in pop culture, and why it's a bad trope, it's probably fine. If not, yeah, it's probably a good idea to not post that.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's like when I met this guy, who told me his dog's name was Diogee.
> As an D-O-G. Ugh.




 An old DM of mine cleverly named his fighter "Emuanay" (M1A) because he was the party's tank... <cue rimshot and eyeroll emoji>

(At least_* I*_ was intentionally being snarky when I named my bard Doremi Fasolatido...)




Bolares said:


> French Fries on pizza...




 A local pizza place does what they call Potato Pie - it's a "white" pizza with no sauce, just olive oil, oregano and parmesan rubbed on the crust, followed by a layer of thinly-sliced potatoes (almost potato chip thin), then covered with mozzarella cheese and crumbled bacon on top.
I usually have them put onions on mine.


----------



## Bolares

Mad_Jack said:


> A local pizza place does what they call Potato Pie - it's a "white" pizza with no sauce, just olive oil, oregano and parmesan rubbed on the crust, followed by a layer of thinly-sliced potatoes (almost potato chip thin), then covered with mozzarella cheese and crumbled bacon on top.
> I usually have them put onions on mine.



that sounds delicious


----------



## Galandris

In Japan, I once saw (not ordered, thank God) a paella pizza. It is exactly what you imagine.

I guess that, seen from Japan, it's no less natural than "Asian restaurants" we have sometimes, serving sushi, nems and cantonese rice.


----------



## Eltab

Mad_Jack said:


> A local pizza place does what they call Potato Pie - it's a "white" pizza with no sauce, just olive oil, oregano and parmesan rubbed on the crust, followed by a layer of thinly-sliced potatoes (almost potato chip thin), then covered with mozzarella cheese and crumbled bacon on top.
> I usually have them put onions on mine.



Hold the onions (because heartburn) and that sounds good.


----------



## darjr

Nope. Not gunna imagine nothin.


----------



## Older Beholder

Galandris said:


> In Japan, I once saw (not ordered, thank God) a paella pizza. It is exactly what you imagine.
> 
> I guess that, seen from Japan, it's no less natural than "Asian restaurants" we have sometimes, serving sushi, nems and cantonese rice.




You see some interesting pizza ideas when travelling in Japan, I still regret not trying the Oreo, strawberry and marshmallow pizza I saw…


----------



## Cadence

Most appropriate username ever?


----------



## Cadence

::::Thinks about The Requerimiento of 1513::::  Pretty sure I couldn't care less about that complaint.


----------



## Retreater

Mad_Jack said:


> A local pizza place does what they call Potato Pie - it's a "white" pizza with no sauce, just olive oil, oregano and parmesan rubbed on the crust, followed by a layer of thinly-sliced potatoes (almost potato chip thin), then covered with mozzarella cheese and crumbled bacon on top.
> I usually have them put onions on mine



We have a local place that has a mashed potato pizza. That's what my wife ordered on our first date. 
She's still very fond of it (and me, luckily).


----------



## Bolares

Retreater said:


> We have a local place that has a mashed potato pizza. That's what my wife ordered on our first date.
> She's still very fond of it (and me, luckily).



It’s good when you know she is the one right on the first that like that


----------



## Malmuria

Did not expect to find a spirited defense of Spanish conquistadors, but here we are I guess.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hashtag Not All Conquerors?


----------



## J.Quondam

Just reminded of a product that neatly brought together so much Eighties era questionableness. Low-res commercials included!


Spoiler: snack time!


----------



## Ryujin

"Mmmmmm..... Tastes like... genocide!"


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's what we can present to the internet as a _fait accompli_.
> 
> Behold, CORN! It's cool, and it's hot, and to quote the esteemed Magnitude, when it comes to corn ....




Ah.  Because, I was thinking of like, a game, or adventure, or something, you know, useful to those on a gaming site.


----------



## darjr

No, I'm not going to look.


----------



## Umbran

"Dear posters, it is important that you realize that it is quicker and easier to ban you from the thread or the boards than it is to talk to you.  When you stop listening to the talk, we start with the banning."


----------



## Mad_Jack

Umbran said:


> "Dear posters, it is important that you realize that it is quicker and easier to ban you from the thread or the boards than it is to talk to you.  When you stop listening to the talk, we start with the banning."




I've always loved this picture...

Someday in the near future, getting hit with the banhammer will actually involve a drone showing up at your house to hit you with it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Ah.  Because, I was thinking of like, a game, or adventure, or something, you know, useful to those on a gaming site.




And the angel of Enworld came unto me
Snatching me up from my place of slumber
And took me on high and higher still
Until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself
And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own Midwest
And as we descended cries of impending doom rose from the soil
One thousand nay a million voices full of fear
And terror possessed me then
And I begged Angel of Enworld what are these tortured screams?
And the angel said unto me
These are the cries of the corn, the cries of the corn!
You see, Reverend Umbran
Tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust
And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat
Like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared
"Hear me now, I have seen the light!
They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul!
Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!


----------



## CleverNickName

@Snarf Zagyg, an intellectual:
(corn and poetry)

Me, also an intellectual:


----------



## niklinna

Malmuria said:


> Oddly this is one of the few instances in which alignment is helpful
> 
> 
> View attachment 148503



Wait there's no pizza w/o cheese on this. I have no alignment!


----------



## billd91

niklinna said:


> Wait there's no pizza w/o cheese on this. I have no alignment!



You are unaligned.
But now that you have admitted to preferring pizza without cheese in public on the internet, the Wisconsin Dairy Board will shortly descend on you to commence your re-education program. Resistance is futile.


----------



## CleverNickName

Time to ask the _hard _questions, people.
Is a no-cheese pizza still a sandwich?


----------



## niklinna

billd91 said:


> You are unaligned.
> But now that you have admitted to preferring pizza without cheese in public on the internet, the Wisconsin Dairy Board will shortly descend on you to commence your re-education program. Resistance is futile.



The Dairy Council of California would like to have a word with the Wisconsin Dairy Board about jurisdiction.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> @Snarf Zagyg, an intellectual:
> (corn and poetry)
> 
> Me, also an intellectual:




The test of a truly first-rate intelligence is the ability to understand both CORN and NOT CORN at the same time.


----------



## billd91

niklinna said:


> The Dairy Council of California would like to have a word with the Wisconsin Dairy Board about jurisdiction.



Hey, we’re *AMERICA’S* Dairyland, pal. 
It says so on our license plate so it must be true.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The test of a truly first-rate intelligence is the ability to understand both CORN and NOT CORN at the same time.



Enough of this Schrodinger's Cob philosophy.


----------



## Umbran

niklinna said:


> The Dairy Council of California would like to have a word with the Wisconsin Dairy Board about jurisdiction.




And both Council and Board should be reminded that over half the world's human population is to some degree lactose intolerant.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Enough of this Schrodinger's Cob philosophy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> And both Council and Board should be reminded that over half the world's human population is to some degree lactose intolerant.




BEHOLD!






THE POWER OF CORN!


_it always comes full circle. _


----------



## Bolares

We have corn popsicles here in Brazil...




"Ao leite" means *with milk* sooo, the full circle gets fuller


----------



## CleverNickName

Full circle?

CORN IS A SANDWICH.




EDIT:  Sorry, I meant "corn _in _a sandwich."


----------



## billd91

Umbran said:


> And both Council and Board should be reminded that over half the world's human population is to some degree lactose intolerant.



Killjoy


----------



## darjr

But that doesn’t count either


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Killjoy




I was unaware that gastrointestinal distress was joy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> We have corn popsicles here in Brazil...
> 
> "Ao leite" means *with milk* sooo, the full circle gets fuller




There are only two things I cannot stand.

People who are intolerant of foreign cultures, and French yogurt.


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> I was unaware that gastrointestinal distress was joy.



There is the joy of eating dairy, followed quicklly by regret and shame.


----------



## darjr

Like eating ghost peppers!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> There is the joy of eating dairy, followed quicklly by regret and shame.




that sounds ....um, .... hot?

Who knew eating dairy was so kinky!


----------



## darjr

At our last game everyone was putting tiny drops of hot sauce in their chilli. I thought they were pulling me leg. So I took a spoonful. 

Ohhh wow was it hot. Good though.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> BEHOLD!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE POWER OF CORN!
> 
> 
> _it always comes full circle. _




If you wanna try to make cheese out of that, and sell that to someone as a proper topping for pizza... I suspect both dairy groups and the Proper Pizza Police will have words for you.  Most of them four-letters.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> that sounds ....um, .... hot?




Oh, dangit.  Rule 34 again.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> that sounds ....um, .... hot?
> 
> Who knew eating dairy was so kinky!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> If you wanna try to make cheese out of that, and sell that to someone as a proper topping for pizza... I suspect both dairy groups and the Proper Pizza Police will have words for you.  Most of them four-letters.




Oh, don't worry. As the self-appointed Proper Pizza Police and duly anointed Party Pooper, I can assure you that I will stand athwart the gates of your local pizzeria, preventing all from bringing in ersatz cheese and New Zealand abominations to corrupt the essence of the One True Pizza.


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> Most of them four-letters.



nice?


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ersatz cheese




That is just an excellent phrase.

I sometimes run games using the Atomic Robo RPG rules, in a universe where Acme, Veridian Dynamics, Fatboy Industries, O2STK, and other comedic high-tech commercial organizations exist.  I may have to include The Erzats Corporation in the list.



Snarf Zagyg said:


> and New Zealand abominations




Aren't they a rugby team?


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> That is just an excellent phrase.



Trully the work of a bard...


----------



## CleverNickName

Bolares said:


> Trully the work of a bard...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Trully the work of a bard...


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


>





			Fear – 5th Edition SRD


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Aren't they a rugby team?




I have it on reasonably good authority that some the commenters here, like Zardnaar, have invented* this so-called "country" of "New Zealand" so that they can take photos of Chef Boyardee poured over their Dominos pizza and say that it's "New Zealand style" when, in fact, it's simply a sad commentary of their lives, probably from Jacksonville, Florida.







*Joining a long line of fictitious countries, like Atlantis, Australia, and Canada.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have it on reasonably good authority that some the commenters here, like Zardnaar, have invented* this so-called "country" of "New Zealand" so that they can take photos of Chef Boyardee poured over their Dominos pizza and say that it's "New Zealand style" when, in fact, it's simply a sad commentary of their lives, probably from Jacksonville, Florida.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Joining a long line of fictitious countries, like Atlantis, Australia, and Canada.



This is the most american post I've ever read


----------



## J.Quondam

Bolares said:


> This is the most american post I've ever read



Snarf's grammar is far too advanced to be _Real American™_.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Snarf's grammar is far too advanced to be _Real American™_.




BEHOLD! MURIKAN KORN!






NO STORM CAN STOP ME!!!!!!


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *Joining a long line of fictitious countries, like Atlantis, Australia, and Canada.




I am pretty certain that Wyoming also does not exist.


----------



## RealAlHazred




----------



## Deset Gled

Umbran said:


> I am pretty certain that Wyoming also does not exist.




 I think you may be confusing Wyoming with Finland.  Common mistake.


----------



## CleverNickName

Deset Gled said:


> I think you may be confusing Wyoming with Finland.  Common mistake.



And lately it feels like the United States is about 90% Texas, by volume.


----------



## Ryujin

Bolares said:


> Trully the work of a bard...



Oh, that's gotta sting


----------



## dragoner

Everyone is having way too much fun in this thread.


----------



## CleverNickName

Yes, but it's all bad.
And wrong.
Bad, wrong fun.


----------



## dragoner

The best kind.


----------



## niklinna

Umbran said:


> That is just an excellent phrase.
> 
> I sometimes run games using the Atomic Robo RPG rules, in a universe where Acme, Veridian Dynamics, Fatboy Industries, O2STK, and other comedic high-tech commercial organizations exist.  I may have to include The Erzats Corporation in the list.



How could you leave out Yoyodyne?!


----------



## niklinna

Deset Gled said:


> I think you may be confusing Wyoming with Finland.  Common mistake.



Those of us who have actually been to both fictional places would never confuse them. One has trees and water and even a castle or two. The other has...a horse on the license plates?

But they do both have big blue skies. And it's equally hard to find pizza w/o cheese in both places.


----------



## Richards

I've seen the outline of the state of Wyoming.  I'm pretty sure they just traced over Colorado and called it good, then pretended it was an entirely different state.  

Johnathan


----------



## Umbran

Deset Gled said:


> I think you may be confusing Wyoming with Finland.  Common mistake.




Finland?  Finland?!  Finland!!
If Monty Python did a song about it, how could it not be real?


----------



## niklinna

Umbran said:


> Finland?  Finland?!  Finland!!
> If Monty Python did a song about it, how could it not be real?




(Note: What Finland calls a mountain, we might call a rather large hill. They have about three of them.)


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> I sometimes run games using the Atomic Robo RPG rules, in a universe where Acme, Veridian Dynamics, Fatboy Industries, O2STK, and other comedic high-tech commercial organizations exist.  I may have to include The Erzats Corporation in the list.



Other worthy inclusions as corporate rivals for the fightin' scientists of Tesladyne: Buy'n'Large (the movie *WALL-E*), Buy More (the TV series *Chuck*), Spacer's Choice (from the video game *Outer Worlds*, "It's not the best chooooice, it's Spacer's Choice!")...

Actually, there are a few great wacky evil corporations in the *Outer Worlds*, with ridiculously catchy jingles. Rizzo's ("Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! It's Rizzo's!") came immediately to mind, as did Autni Cleo's.


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Other worthy inclusions as corporate rivals for the fightin' scientists of Tesladyne: Buy'n'Large (the movie *WALL-E*), Buy More (the TV series *Chuck*), Spacer's Choice (from the video game *Outer Worlds*, "It's not the best chooooice, it's Spacer's Choice!")...
> 
> Actually, there are a few great wacky evil corporations in the *Outer Worlds*, with ridiculously catchy jingles. Rizzo's ("Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! It's Rizzo's!") came immediately to mind, as did Autni Cleo's.



I would add in S-Mart from the Evil Dead franchise, just for that big box store option. "Shop smart. Shop S-Mart."


----------



## Deset Gled

Ryujin said:


> I would add in S-Mart from the Evil Dead franchise, just for that big box store option. "Shop smart. Shop S-Mart."




I thought S-mart was a convenience store. 

Wayland and Yutani would be fun companies to add to the mix.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> I thought S-mart was a convenience store.
> 
> Wayland and Yutani would be fun companies to add to the mix.



"S-Mart" is a Wal-Mart style 'everything' store. Might be good for a "everything breaks when used" source.


----------



## Mannahnin

Ryujin said:


> I would add in S-Mart from the Evil Dead franchise, just for that big box store option. "Shop smart. Shop S-Mart."






Deset Gled said:


> I thought S-mart was a convenience store.
> 
> Wayland and Yutani would be fun companies to add to the mix.



S-Mart was definitely a K-Mart reference.  No one sells shotguns in convenience stores. 

Ash : Alright you Primitive Screwheads, listen up! You see this? This... is my BOOMSTICK! The twelve-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?


----------



## Ryujin

Mannahnin said:


> S-Mart was definitely a K-Mart reference.  No one sells shotguns in convenience stores.











						Army Of Darkness Evil Dead GIF - Army Of Darkness Evil Dead Names Ash - Discover & Share GIFs
					

Click to view the GIF




					tenor.com


----------



## darjr

I need a thread where I can comment about this thread


----------



## CleverNickName

The Hive is here for you, @darjr.
It's the _original _meta-meta-thread.


----------



## darjr

Some threads I let float on by.


----------



## Cadence

"Ooh. Another 5e thread.  Time for me to make it a discussion about the other system I really like!"


----------



## payn

This thread is like an all year Festivus.


----------



## niklinna

payn said:


> This thread is like an all year Festivus.



Wait, is that *this* thread, or "this" thread?


----------



## darjr

It worked! As designed!

Eh, but now I kinda wish it didn’t.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> "Ooh. Another 5e thread.  Time for me to make it a discussion about the other system I really like!"



I miss when people would call people who liked things they didn't like "swine." Really elevated the conversation level!


----------



## prabe

You realize you're arguing with someone who mostly agrees with you, right?


----------



## CleverNickName

"Why are you arguing with me?  I'm trying to agree with you!"
"I know we're both right.  I just need you to understand that I'm _more right _than you."


----------



## darjr

Are any of them me? Then they are all wrong.


----------



## darjr

I’m glad that post didn’t break anything……


----------



## Eltab

niklinna said:


> Those of us who have actually been to both fictional places would never confuse them. One has trees and water and even a castle or two. The other has...a horse on the license plates?
> 
> But they do both have big blue skies. And it's equally hard to find pizza w/o cheese in both places.



i can show you a couple nice open-air hot springs to help you remember the place your memory is coming up short about.


----------



## darjr

Wise choice


----------



## darjr

If I explain it then it isn’t funny so I won’t explain it.


----------



## CleverNickName

Touché, like I said I just wanted to make sure.


----------



## Cadence

Cadence said:


> "Ooh. Another 5e thread.  Time for me to make it a discussion about the other system I really like!"




Something evergreen seems good for the holiday season.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> "Ooh. Another 5e thread.  Time for me to make it a discussion about the other system I really like!"



Oh, are we talking about Hero System 6E? Man, I love how customizable it is! Let me tell you about this great build I did for a stage magician type as a superhero...


----------



## Eltab

If a thread is already locked before you even discover it ... how would you not-comment on the subject or the arguments employed?


----------



## Cadence

This is more like bamboo or kudzu in the southeastern US now than an evergreen.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Eltab said:


> If a thread is already locked before you even discover it ... how would you not-comment on the subject or the arguments employed?



Easy! You create a completely new thread that says exactly nothing in order to come to this thread and be able to say that you didn't comment in another thread!


----------



## darjr

What? Who would do that?


----------



## Cadence

"Amateurs. Why even bring another game system to the D&D conversation when you could just use ad-hoc rules free die rolling?"


----------



## Cadence

And so, they had these things called conventions.  And the modules for them were designed to...  ::: gives up because it won't matter :::


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> And so, they had these things called conventions.  And the modules for them were designed to...  ::: gives up because it won't matter :::



And, get, this, they sat around the table talking to each other _without masks_...

Savage! And they knew they'd get sick! They just called it "con crud" and kept going!


----------



## Cadence

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> And, get, this, they sat around the table talking to each other _without masks_...
> 
> Savage! And they knew they'd get sick! They just called it "con crud" and kept going!



I now I'm wondering how big and long lasting the cons had to become before that was a widespread problem, or if it goes back to the earliest days.

In any case, I'm guessing <insert transfer to the rising pandemic thread>.


----------



## darjr

No, I didn't comment.


----------



## Deset Gled

Wow, that escalated quickly.  I didn't even have a chance to make any bad choices.


----------



## darjr

You'll get another.


----------



## payn

So, history is written by the victor.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> Wow, that escalated quickly.  I didn't even have a chance to make any bad choices.



Ah, yes. The disappointment of wanting to post in a thread that's exploding, only to find that it's already locked.


----------



## darjr

Oh! I'm blocked! Looking back it was done as a sort of aggression. But wow am I super happy about it. It's like a late (or early?) Christmas gift!


----------



## CleverNickName

Bummer.  I didn't even get a chance to type "(CleverNickName has entered the chat)" when someone posted about pizza.  I'm trying to build a theme here.


----------



## billd91

You guyssss! Now you’ve triggered my FOMO!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> I now I'm wondering how big and long lasting the cons had to become before that was a widespread problem, or if it goes back to the earliest days.



I wasn't at the first conventions, but since 1994 at least (and the DexCon of that year), "con crud" was already an old facet of gaming conventions. That and the habit of skipping hygiene so as not to miss games.


----------



## niklinna

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I wasn't at the first conventions, but since 1994 at least (and the DexCon of that year), "con crud" was already an old facet of gaming conventions. That and the habit of skipping hygiene so as not to miss games.



Back when I had a fair number of pagan friends, I went to a few of their gatherings, including PantheaCon, held at a hotel convention center in San Jose. A common saying was "Patchouli is not a deodorant".


----------



## Cadence

:::New Years 2062, a thread gets heated, and the AI automod hasn't wiped a post yet for getting off topic:::

"It was 2022 and from their archive they obviously still ate animal products with most meals, kept their AC below 25.5 and heat above 20, drove a fossil fuel powered car, upgraded their perfectly functional electronics  on a regular basis because they weren't quite shiny enough, and  traveled long distance for pleasure multiple times per year?!??  It wasn't a secret how many countries they were making uninhabitable and  billions of people they were going to help impoverish or kill.  They were a monster and they knew it."


----------



## Deset Gled

niklinna said:


> Back when I had a fair number of pagan friends, I went to a few of their gatherings, including PantheaCon, held at a hotel convention center in San Jose. A common saying was "Patchouli is not a deodorant".



Sometime around the turn of the century, ACen (Anime Central convention) used "Soap!" as their yearly theme . They also had a dance called The Soap Bubble. It was... necessary.


----------



## darjr

I feel like Clem Fandango


----------



## niklinna

Deset Gled said:


> Sometime around the turn of the century, ACen (Anime Central convention) used "Soap!" as their yearly theme . They also had a dance called The Soap Bubble. It was... necessary.



"You paid for that bathroom in your hotel room—get your money's worth!"


----------



## niklinna

darjr said:


> I feel like Clem Fandango



I had to look that up, and I'm glad I did. Almost makes me want to start watching TV again!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> :::New Years 2062, a thread gets heated, and the AI automod hasn't wiped a post yet for getting off topic:::
> 
> "It was 2022 and from their archive they obviously still ate animal products with most meals, kept their AC below 25.5 and heat above 20, drove a fossil fuel powered car, upgraded their perfectly functional electronics  on a regular basis because they weren't quite shiny enough, and  traveled long distance for pleasure multiple times per year?!??  It wasn't a secret how many countries they were making uninhabitable and  billions of people they were going to help impoverish or kill.  They were a monster and they knew it."




Even worse. They still put pineapple on their pizza and taught kids that their was some place they would go if they were bad called …. _NEW ZEALAND. _


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Even worse. They still put pineapple on their pizza and taught kids that their was some place they would go if they were bad called …. _NEW ZEALAND. _



As long as they realize they will rightfully be judged as being excremental for doing so (although not as much as those who put canned Tuna on it), because they are fully capable and equipped to know it's wrong now while they continue doing it.


----------



## Cadence

Ah, and the evergreen continues into the new year (not much of an evergreen if it didn't).  But now with an extra emphasis on using particular definitions of the big ideas as if agreed upon by all.


----------



## prabe

The same person can be both foundational to a (sub)genre and a despicable human. The latter can poison the well of the former.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Ah, and the evergreen continues into the new year (not much of an evergreen if it didn't).  But now with an extra emphasis on using particular definitions of the big ideas as if agreed upon by all.




“There are no new debates. Just old debates that people don’t realize have already been argued to death.”

-The internal monologue of every professor teaching a college freshman class, probably.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> “There are no new debates. Just old debates that people don’t realize have already been argued to death.”
> 
> -The internal monologue of every professor teaching a college freshman class, probably.




Debate feels like it implies interaction.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> Debate feels like it implies interaction.



If ever a comment demanded a "master debater" joke, this is that comment.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Debate feels like it implies interaction.




“My greatest debates are with myself.”

-Me, while trying to decide if I should stop and get that Popeyes chicken sandwich, or keep on driving.


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> “There are no new debates. Just old debates that people don’t realize have already been argued to death.”
> 
> -The internal monologue of every professor teaching a college freshman class, probably.





There is poster in an office I share with a full professor, with a young penguin and an adult penguin. The young says "I want to give my opinion on the course of the world!" and the old answers "What about understanding it first?" 

I am not sure the students would find the poster as funny...


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> “My greatest debates are with myself.”
> 
> -Me, while trying to decide if I should stop and get that Popeyes chicken sandwich, or keep on driving.




The lines are often so long... and there is a Bojangles on the way home too...


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> “My greatest debates are with myself.”
> 
> -Me, while trying to decide if I should stop and get that Popeyes chicken sandwich, or keep on driving.



A debate of far more import than most that take place via electrons.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> The lines are often so long... and there is a Bojangles on the way home too...




Lines?

I was thinking about my waist!

The only way I can cram another chicken sandwich down is to slather my throat with egg nog ….THE ULTIMATE LUBRICANT!!!!


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Lines?
> 
> I was thinking about my waist!
> 
> The only way I can cram another chicken sandwich down is to slather my throat with egg nog ….THE ULTIMATE LUBRICANT!!!!




I was thinking about the cars usually wrapped around the building most of the time.

Sandwich is marginally better than Bo Time's, but Popeye's mangled my fries and unsweet tea last time.

And Bojangles has pimento cheese for the Cajun filet biscuit sandwich if you want to change it up.


----------



## CleverNickName

Year 2022 and there's still not a 6th Edition D&D.  I was absolutely certain that this would be the year that it was released.  People on the Internet _promised me _it would be here, they've been promising me since 2018.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Lines?
> 
> I was thinking about my waist!
> 
> The only way I can cram another chicken sandwich down is to slather my throat with egg nog ….THE ULTIMATE LUBRICANT!!!!



If you're going to lubricate with milk fat and raw egg then just cast all doubts aside, and go to Hardee's/Carl's Jr..


----------



## darjr

Don’t forget the alcohol


----------



## darjr

I do not understand. I really don’t. It’s English yea, I can tell that, but I’m lost.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> “My greatest debates are with myself.”
> 
> -Me, while trying to decide if I should stop and get that Popeyes chicken sandwich, or keep on driving.



Jokes aside, debating with yourself is actually a good sign. It shows that you're actually _thinking_ about your decisions. And most problems in this world could probably be solved if everyone was comfortable thinking a lot more than they currently do.

Internal debates are a good thing. Sometimes it can be annoying (especially for very minor issues, like where you should go to eat), but overall, it's a good thing.


----------



## Parmandur

Y'all be trippin, pineapple on pizza is awesome.


AcererakTriple6 said:


> Jokes aside, debating with yourself is actually a good sign. It shows that you're actually _thinking_ about your decisions. And most problems in this world could probably be solved if everyone was comfortable thinking a lot more than they currently do.
> 
> Internal debates is a good thing. Sometimes it can be annoying (especially for very minor issues, like where you should go to eat), but overall, it's a good thing.



Jokes aside?!?! You mistake this thread methinks.

The primary point there is to tie into the "master [de]bating" line.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Lines?
> 
> I was thinking about my waist!



Yes, I believe "curves" technically are considered "lines".


----------



## Cadence

I honestly didn't see the turn towards edition warring coming...


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I honestly didn't see the turn towards edition warring coming...



HAVE YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> HAVE YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL



To be fair, I called the other.one a long time ago.  But that one was pretty obvious.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> I honestly didn't see the turn towards edition warring coming...



Whatever it takes to get the thread locked, right?


----------



## darjr

I posted in the thread anyway. What the h*ck. Oh, not that thread... no... never.


----------



## Cadence

"It doesn't matter how many of you think you're doing the good stuff, you're not.  Check out my definitions of everything again and you'll surely agree."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "It doesn't matter how many of you think you're doing the good stuff, you're not.  Check out my definitions of everything again and you'll surely agree."




“Can God define terms so narrowly that She can beat Herself in an argument?”

-Thomas Aquinas, interrogatively.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> “Can God define terms so narrowly that She can beat Herself in an argument?”
> 
> -Thomas Aquinas, interrogatively.



That's St. Anselm of Canterbury, to be pedantic: but Aquinas did _not_ care for Anselm's line of thought.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> That's St. Anselm of Canterbury, to be pedantic: but Aquinas did _not_ care for Anselm's line of thought.




“Can God create a pizza topping so weird a New Zealander wouldn’t eat it?”

St. Anselm of Canterbury, confusingly.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> “Can God create a pizza topping so weird a New Zealander wouldn’t eat it?”
> 
> St. Anselm of Canterbury, confusingly.



Creating a logical contradiction is contrary to the form of Truth, and thus evil. Evil is not real, but a deprivation of the Good, as darkness is a lack of light or cold is a lack of warmth. To commit evil isn't power which has to do with the actuation of Being (potence), but contrary to power (hence impotence). 

Ergo, creating a pizza with toppings so weird that a New Zealander wouldn’t eat it is contrary to the nature of God,  as such an absurdity is incompatible with omnipotence.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Creating a logical contradiction is contrary to the form of Truth, and thus evil. Evil is not real, but a deprivation of the Good, as darkness is a lack of light or cold is a lack of warmth. To commit evil isn't power which has to do with the actuation of Being (potence), but contrary to power (hence impotence).
> 
> Ergo, creating a pizza with toppings so weird that a New Zealander wouldn’t eat it is contrary to the nature of God,  as such an absurdity is incompatible with omnipotence.



And yet, New Zealanders were made.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> And yet, New Zealanders we're made.



There may have been an absurd unstated premise in my logical chain there.


----------



## Malmuria

What if you made your own role playing game, like dnd but different?  Surely no one has had this idea before.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> “Can God create a pizza topping so weird a New Zealander wouldn’t eat it?”
> 
> St. Anselm of Canterbury, confusingly.



Summoning @CleverNickName . . .


----------



## CleverNickName

(CleverNickName has entered the chat)

Here's a random pizza combo I bet you haven't heard of:  Apple, Cheddar, and Smoked Sausage.






Looks like there might be red onion and chard on there, too?  Sign me up either way.


----------



## darjr

I’m not sure I like you anymore


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> (CleverNickName has entered the chat)
> 
> Here's a random pizza topping I bet you haven't heard of:  Apple, Cheddar, and Smoked Sausage.
> 
> View attachment 149287
> 
> Looks like there might be red onion and chard on there, too.  Sign me up either way.



Not a New Zealander, but I would eat that.


----------



## darjr

You either


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> You either



Embrace the power of the omnivorous side: look inside yourself, you know it to be true.


----------



## Cadence

You had me agreeing before, but the more you type the more I swing back to it being a distinction without a difference.


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> (CleverNickName has entered the chat)
> 
> Here's a random pizza combo I bet you haven't heard of:  Apple, Cheddar, and Smoked Sausage.
> 
> View attachment 149287
> 
> Looks like there might be red onion and chard on there, too?  Sign me up either way.



That's a normie pizza.


----------



## Umbran

Bolares said:


> That's a normie pizza.




Nah, that's hipster, not normie.


----------



## Cadence

"I mean, sometimes I wallow too (and wallowing isn't derogatory, who doesn't like a good wallow now and then as long as it is done with intentional mindfulness of the benefits and weaknesses - and so I'll explain later why I'm pretty sure you've been wallowing poorly).  But there is no need to despair your inability to see that you have only been wallowing and missing the higher aspects. Step back from what you only imagined you were enjoying, hear again the words of the oracles I have been sharing. Come, dry your eyes,  join me, and rejoice!".


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> Nah, that's hipster, not normie.



Bolares is Brazilian, so it might be pretty normal locally.


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> Bolares is Brazilian, so it might be pretty normal locally.




I live in the Boston area - one of the hipster capitals of the world.  I live in a place with broad based hipsterism.  I am open to the idea that an entire nation could, in fact, be hipster.


----------



## payn

Not looking forward to the day I reach the cryptster stage. (Senior hipster lol)


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Not looking forward to the day I reach the cryptster stage. (Senior hipster lol)




Crypster is the crypto-currency for people who were into blockchain before it was cool.


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> I live in the Boston area - one of the hipster capitals of the world.  I live in a place wit broad based hipsterism.  I am open to the idea that an entire nation could, in fact, be hipster.



WE DID IT WAY BEFORE IT WAS COOL!


----------



## Bolares

Have I told you we call pineapple pizza "californian pizza"?

It has pineapple, peach, mozarella cheese, figs, condensed milk, cherrys and dryed prunes


----------



## Parmandur

Bolares said:


> Have I told you we call pineapple pizza "californian pizza"?



Ludicrous, it's obviously Greek-Canadian.


----------



## Bolares

...as I've said, apple, sausage and cheddar? normie pizza


----------



## Parmandur

Bolares said:


> ...as I've said, apple, sausage and cheddar? normie pizza



I can dig it, but I am a hipster sooooo...


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> I live in the Boston area - one of the hipster capitals of the world.  I live in a place wit broad based hipsterism.  I am open to the idea that an entire nation could, in fact, be hipster.



Why did the hipster burn his mouth?
_He was eating pizza before it was cool._

I think only Northampton has more hipsters than Boston, on the east coast.  I'm in Portland OR, and we've got the west coast on lock.

But am I a "hipster" though?  Well, let me put it this way: the breakroom at work smells like kimchi, it's my fault, and I'm not Korean.


----------



## Malmuria

Bolares said:


> Have I told you we call pineapple pizza "californian pizza"?
> 
> It has pineapple, peach, mozarella cheese, figs, condensed milk, cherrys and dryed prunes
> 
> View attachment 149302



_reported_
surely posts like this have to be against forum rules


----------



## darjr

Aren’t there sections of the earth due to fall info the sea? Like all the rest I’m not standing upon?


----------



## CleverNickName

Malmuria said:


> _reported_
> surely posts like this have to be against forum rules



Hardly.  There are several threads dedicated to sandwiches.  Right Snarf?


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> Hardly.  There are several threads dedicated to sandwiches.  Right Snarf?


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Aren’t there sections of the earth due to fall info the sea? Like all the rest I’m not standing upon?



I wouldn't be so certain of any ground right now.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> I wouldn't be so certain of any ground right now.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> View attachment 149303



Well, certainly LaNasa is as constant as the Northern Star.


----------



## Bolares

Parmandur said:


> Well, certainly LaNasa is as constant as the Northern Star.



As in he doesn't appear in the southern hemisphere?


----------



## darjr

Uh... did he mean me?


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Uh... did he mean me?




Which couples nicely with, "It isn't all about you."


----------



## Sabathius42

*Unrelated to ongoing discussion, just something that I want to post in oh so many threads*

Do you realize how much your condescending hands up shrug emoji makes you look like a [censored] piece of [censored]?

I feel better now.


----------



## billd91

Sabathius42 said:


> *Unrelated to ongoing discussion, just something that I want to post in oh so many threads*
> 
> Do you realize how much your condescending hands up shrug emoji makes you look like a [censored] piece of [censored]?



No idea?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Hardly.  There are several threads dedicated to sandwiches.  Right Snarf?




… I’m sorry. I’ve been in a catatonic state since I thought I saw someone write that they used _CONDENSED MILK_ as a pizza topping.

This is sure evidence that “New Zealandism” is some kind of post-apocalyptic zombie virus, and it’s spreading quickly.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> … I’m sorry. I’ve been in a catatonic state since I thought I saw someone write that they used _CONDENSED MILK_ as a pizza topping.
> 
> This is sure evidence that “New Zealandism” is some kind of post-apocalyptic zombie virus, and it’s spreading quickly.



Yeah that's a bridge too far, even for me.

EDIT:  I Googled "milk pizza" and I was not prepared.  Apparently it was a "hot new food trend" or whatever back in 2017.  You know, around the time that kids were eating Tide Pods.  


Spoiler: oh for the love of Pelor
















Even this self-described hipster is proud to have missed _that _trend.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> … I’m sorry. I’ve been in a catatonic state since I thought I saw someone write that they used _CONDENSED MILK_ as a pizza topping.
> 
> This is sure evidence that “New Zealandism” is some kind of post-apocalyptic zombie virus, and it’s spreading quickly.



We put condensed milk in _A LOT _of sweet pizzas. Chocolate, strawberry, chocolate+coconut, banana... all those and more go really weel with condensed milk.


----------



## Asisreo

Bolares said:


> We put condensed milk in _A LOT _of sweet pizzas. Chocolate, strawberry, chocolate+coconut, banana... all those and more go really weel with condensed milk.



I think we should put them back to Old Zealand if they keep acting up like this...


----------



## Bolares

Asisreo said:


> I think we should put them back to Old Zealand if they keep acting up like this...



I don't know about new zelanders, but for our part, you can blame the Portuguese... (god knows we do that a lot).


----------



## J.Quondam

It's amazing how amazing so many awful pizzas would be if only they weren't called "pizza".


----------



## Parmandur

Bolares said:


> I don't know about new zelanders, but for our part, you can blame the Portuguese... (god knows we do that a lot).



"What 'Ave the Portugese ever done for us?"


----------



## darjr

Ope!


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This is sure evidence that “New Zealandism” is some kind of post-apocalyptic zombie virus, and it’s spreading quickly.




Or, it is less about Zealand (New or Otherwise), and more about the southern hemisphere?  I mean, standing upside down all the time has to screw you up some, doesn't it?


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> Or, it is less about Zealand (New or Otherwise), and more about the southern hemisphere?  I mean, standing upside down all the time has to screw you up some, doesn't it?



With how much people from the northern hemisphere let go to their heads... I'd bet we aren't the ones upside down


----------



## Umbran

Bolares said:


> With how much people from the northern hemisphere let go to their heads... I'd bet we aren't the ones upside down




Oh, no.  Things go to our heads largely because we are full of hot air, which rises.


----------



## Asisreo

J.Quondam said:


> It's amazing how amazing so many awful pizzas would be if only they weren't called "pizza".



"A pizza by any other name is just as italian"
-Dante


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> Oh, no.  Things go to our heads largely because we are full of hot air, which rises.



Then we are really upside down here... because the hot air commonly comes out from our bottoms.


----------



## Deset Gled

Conundrum: I really want to point something out.  But I know the instant I draw attention to it, the thing will stop.  And I don't want it to stop.


----------



## darjr

Well that's good news, I suppose.


----------



## darjr

Deset Gled said:


> Conundrum: I really want to point something out.  But I know the instant I draw attention to it, the thing will stop.  And I don't want it to stop.



I encourage you to do it. As long as it isn't shenanigans.


----------



## CleverNickName

I just lumped centaurs, satyrs, minotaurs, and firbolgs all into a single category called "Barn Elves."
I should be ashamed of myself (but I'm really quite proud.)


----------



## darjr

I am quoting you!


----------



## Cadence

If we really were it feels like these threads wouldn't be full of such self assured bombast.  Can we put it to a vote?


----------



## Not a Hobbit

"Oh, yes, I know it's racist .... but..." is pretty much the entire issue"

1 post later

"I get the idea that slavery = bad, but..."

Also, a 1 minute self-ban from a thread.


----------



## prabe

Egad. I agree with you.

Something is clearly wrong, here ...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I just lumped centaurs, satyrs, minotaurs, and firbolgs all into a single category called "Barn Elves."
> I should be ashamed of myself (but I'm really quite proud.)




Are you really proud of the fact that you managed to create yet more elves?

Elves are like pizza toppings- there’s an infinite variety of bad ones.


----------



## darjr

Clearly my opinion is objective reality


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Are you really proud of the fact that you managed to create yet more elves?
> 
> Elves are like pizza toppings- there’s an infinite variety of bad ones.



I got the idea from you, Snarf.
All that ranting about condensed milk made me think of _other _things that could (should?) be condensed.  Because honestly, do we really need thirty-five different types of elves?  Of course not!  So I condensed the list down to just a dozen.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Bolares said:


> Then we are really upside down here... because the hot air commonly comes out from our bottoms.




 Well, maybe if you stopped eating so much nasty pizza...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Man, I just love it when a thread I was just about to reply to disappears in between the time I started reading it and the time I tried to reply. Y'all couldn't have gone more than three pages without getting shut down?


----------



## Bolares

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, maybe if you stopped eating so much nasty pizza...



nah, we make sacrificies for our pizzas


----------



## Mad_Jack

Bolares said:


> nah, we make sacrificies for our pizzas




Is that where you get all the toppings from?


----------



## Bolares

Mad_Jack said:


> Is that where you get all the toppings from?



We get our toppings from everywhere and anyone


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> *I got the idea from you, Snarf.*
> All that ranting about condensed milk made me think of _other _things that could (should?) be condensed.  Because honestly, do we really need thirty-five different types of elves?  Of course not!  So I condensed the list down to just a dozen.


----------



## Cadence

Just to make sure I understand the rules.  (1) No NZish Pizza strangeness and (2) The goal of posting in every thread about actual games is to keep the thread drawn out long enough until you can goad everyone who isn't completely in agreement with you into saying something to get them booted?


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> Just to make sure I understand the rules.  (1) No NZish Pizza strangeness and (2) The goal of posting in every thread about actual games is to keep the thread drawn out long enough until you can goad everyone who isn't completely in agreement with you into saying something to get them booted?



Either that, or derail it onto the topic of pizza toppings elves.


----------



## CleverNickName

New thread idea:
Are Elves Really A Pizza?


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> New thread idea:
> Are Elves Really A Pizza?



Are elves sandwiches?


----------



## darjr

Elves are friends not food


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> Elves are friends not food



False.






These elves are categorically "sandwiches."  And apparently, an elf has 85 kCal, 2.5g of fat, and 2g of protein, but is practically devoid of vitamins and minerals.  Not a good food source, but a tasty snack!













....but are they also _pizza?!_


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Elves are friends not food



Says the bullet in the herbivorous landshark meeting


----------



## prabe

At my tables, PCs exist in a setting that is without form and void ...


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Silly me. I didn't think that anyone else would remember that one


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Silly me. I didn't think that anyone else would remember that one




Even with the brain fog I have right now, I cannot forget the awesomeness that was 80s anti-drug PSAs.







...and that is why I always eat my eggs sunny side up. The more you know!


----------



## Cadence

I don't even know what should be reported anymore, so I'm just going to try something new and just see how long this one goes.


----------



## Umbran

Bolares said:


> Are elves sandwiches?




Bards are elf sandwiches.


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> Bards are elf sandwiches.



Bards love to make people sandwiches


----------



## J.Quondam

For some reason, I'm pretty sure I was just reminded of a question from the SAT* back in the day....



> Select the answer that best completes the following analogy:​​*Elves are to pizza as bards are to ______*​​(a) sandwiches​(b) orcs​(c) alignment​(d) New Zealand​(e) Fourth Edition​





* for non-US readers, the SAT is (was?) a standardized test for university applications, a big deal for students graduating high school.


----------



## Parmandur

Bolares said:


> Bards love to make people sandwiches



What a delightfully multivaliant sentence.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Even with the brain fog I have right now, I cannot forget the awesomeness that was 80s anti-drug PSAs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and that is why I always eat my eggs sunny side up. The more you know!



Yea. Who doesn’t like a good fried egg over easy?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Even with the brain fog I have right now, I cannot forget the awesomeness that was 80s anti-drug PSAs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and that is why I always eat my eggs sunny side up. The more you know!



cowabunga!


----------



## Bolares

J.Quondam said:


> For some reason, I'm pretty sure I was just reminded of a question from the SAT* back in the day....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * for non-US readers, the SAT is (was?) a standardized test for university applications, a big deal for students graduating high school.



(f) snarf


----------



## Bolares

Parmandur said:


> What a delightfully multivaliant sentence.



Yeah, I'm gonna claim it was on purpose...


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Yea. Who doesn’t like a good fried egg over easy?



But I like sunny side up


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> But I like sunny side up



Noted…..


----------



## Eltab

Bolares said:


> Bards love to make people sandwiches



I thought that was Dark Sun Halflings' main shtick, not Bards'.


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Even with the brain fog I have right now, I cannot forget the awesomeness that was 80s anti-drug PSAs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and that is why I always eat my eggs sunny side up. The more you know!




This is, in fact, a kind egg-topped pizza made with iron dough. I hear they are very popular in New Zealand.


----------



## CleverNickName

Maybe I should have posted that "clown makeup meme" image here instead?  Ah well.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> Maybe I should have posted that "clown makeup meme" image here instead?  Ah well.




You trying to tell us that a clown in makeup... is a sandwich?  Eew.


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> You trying to tell us that a clown in makeup... is a sandwich?  Eew.



Honest, I'm trying to come up with a clever response.  It's just hard to type when I'm laughing hysterically.


----------



## J.Quondam

Bards are clown elves?


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> You trying to tell us that a clown in makeup... is a sandwich?  Eew.



I guess they would taste funny?

Sorry.  I'll see myself out.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Bards are clown elves?



Have you seen the web series "Standard Action"? Clown Bards are the only scary Bards.


----------



## Eltab

CleverNickName said:


> Honest, I'm trying to come up with a clever response.  It's just hard to type when I'm laughing hysterically.



Try this:
Does all that makeup taste like frosting or mayonnaise?  Asking for a (halfling) friend.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Wait, what's the name of this thread?

_checking_

Failed again!!!!!!!


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Wait, what's the name of this thread?
> 
> _checking_
> 
> Failed again!!!!!!!



Don’t blame the thread!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Don’t blame the thread!




You think I'm going to blame _ME???!!!!???!!_


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You think I'm going to blame _ME???!!!!???!!_



Is OK. We do that for you.


----------



## Cadence

From "Snarf Foods"...









						Bob's Killer Karamel™ Pizza
					

BOB'S KILLER KARAMEL™ pizzas are made with a base of our Bob's Praline Insanity™ then smothered with exquisite hand made caramel, generously sprinkled with an assortment of chocolate candies, then drizzled with white and dark chocolate. They are available in 4 sizes - 4", 5" (heart only) 6" or...




					snarffoods.com


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Is host


Cadence said:


> From "Snarf Foods"...




...needs some aged cranberry sauce topping.


----------



## Cadence

@Bolares @Snarf Zagyg 

Some uninformed people say that one of the three iconic Chicago pizza styles is Lasagna, but that's absurd.

My paternal grandmother, for all of her cooking prowess, unfortunately made "lasagna" that was closer to a cheeseburger with noodles for buns than it was actual lasagna.


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> @Bolares @Snarf Zagyg
> 
> Some uninformed people say that one of the three iconic Chicago pizza styles is Lasagna, but that's absurd.
> 
> My paternal grandmother, for all of her cooking prowess, unfortunately made "lasagna" that was closer to a cheeseburger with noodles for buns than it was actual lasagna.



Lasagna is clearly a sauce sandwich


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Some uninformed people say that one of the three iconic Chicago pizza styles is Lasagna, but that's absurd.




"In New Zealand, we make lasagna ... but only use it as a pizza topping!"

-The Tooth Fairy, probably.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> "In New Zealand, we make lasagna ... but only use it as a pizza topping!"
> 
> -The Tooth Fairy, probably.




At a Calzone place near us...






iirc they cheat and use rotini.


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> At a Calzone place near us...
> 
> View attachment 149423
> 
> iirc they cheat at use rotini.



what does a lasagna have to do with meatballs?


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> "In New Zealand, we make lasagna ... but only use it as a pizza topping!"
> 
> -The Tooth Fairy, probably.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> At a Calzone place near us...




A calzone is a pizza that has blown all its options and can't afford the luxury of changing its ways. The calzone has to capitalize on whatever it has left, and the calzone can't afford to admit — no matter how often the calzone is reminded of this fact — that every day of the calzone's life takes it farther and farther down a blind alley.

No calzones in this world are pizzas in disguise. Most calzones are simply nasty bits of dough larded up with New Zealand toppings, and they are going to stay that way.

Be wary of the calzone-eater, for there is not much mental distance between the feeling of having been screwed by ordering a calzone when you wanted pizza ... and the ethic of total retaliation.


----------



## Cadence

Bolares said:


> Lasagna is clearly a sauce sandwich





Ked's World Famous Lasagna is not a Sandwich!
(Ok, maybe only extended family famous, and no one involved has any Italian ancestry so ymmv).

1 lb. Italian Sausage
1 Clove Minced Garlic
1 tbsp. Basil
1 lb. can Whole Tomatoes
12 to 18 oz. Tomato Paste

Brown the sausage (drain). Then mix in the garlic, basil, tomatoes, and paste. Make sure to break up the tomatoes as you do so. Simmer covered for 30 minutes.

6 Lasagna Noodles

Cook until almost, but not quite, done

2 Eggs
1.5 cups Ricotta Cheese
1.5 cups Cottage Cheese
1/2 cup Grated Parmesan (The actual cheese, not the powdered stuff)
2 tbsp. Parsley Flakes
1/2 tsp. Pepper

Mix Eggs, Ricotta, Cottage and Parmesan Cheeses, Parsley, and Pepper together

1/2 lb. Thin Sliced Mozzarella

In a two quart baking dish, layer as follows
Half of Noodles [Bottom] (Ripping them as needed to fit the pan)
Half of Ricotta Mixture
Half of Mozzarella Slices
Half of Sauce Mixture[Top]
Repeat

Bake for 30 minutes at 375. Allow to sit at least 10 minutes before cutting. Works great if you cook it the night before and refrigerate. Will still take about 30 minutes at 375 or so to reheat.


----------



## Cadence

Bolares said:


> what does a lasagna have to do with meatballs?



Ok, so they double cheat?  But not having actual lasagna noodles in the lasagna seems the worst of the two.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> A calzone is a pizza that has blown all its options and can't afford the luxury of changing its ways. The calzone has to capitalize on whatever it has left, and the calzone can't afford to admit — no matter how often the calzone is reminded of this fact — that every day of the calzone's life takes it farther and farther down a blind alley.
> 
> No calzones in this world are pizzas in disguise. Most calzones are simply nasty bits of dough larded up with New Zealand toppings, and they are going to stay that way.
> 
> Be wary of the calzone-eater, for there is not much mental distance between the feeling of having been screwed by ordering a calzone when you wanted pizza ... and the ethic of total retaliation.




Definitely lots of New Zealand toppings!



			https://www.zomato.com/columbia-sc/fast-eddies-calzones-columbia/menu


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> At a Calzone place near us...
> 
> View attachment 149423
> 
> iirc they cheat and use rotini.



Thats not a calzone, sauce must be on the side. (I dont make up the rules)


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Thats not a calzone, sauce must be on the side. (I dont make up the rules)



Triple cheating!


----------



## Cadence

"There is no way in heck I'm letting you say you have the the good stuff!  Here, I will draw in more definitions from my oracles!"

(@Snarf Zagyg   This is not in response to a post mentioning Pizza, Lasagna, Sandwiches, Fruit or Berries, although it can almost surely be read to be relevant to at least one of those in spite of my intention).


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Thats not a calzone, sauce must be on the side. (I dont make up the rules)



Sauce inside makes it a panzarotti.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Sauce inside makes it a panzarotti.




What is a Stromboli?

And once in a while when I shift managed a Pizza place we would get an order for a pizza with no sauce.  Is that still a pizza?  Or does that make it an unfolded Calzone or cheesy bread?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> (@Snarf Zagyg   This is not in response to a post mentioning Pizza, Lasagna, Sandwiches, Fruit or Berries,




Hard liquor it is!


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> What is a Stromboli?
> 
> And once in a while when I shift managed a Pizza place we would get an order for a pizza with no sauce.  Is that still a pizza?  Or does that make it an unfolded Calzone or cheesy bread?



Italian take on a savory Danish Pastry? Pizza Taco?

I'd call that a very dry pizza, or just bad-wrong-fun.


----------



## CleverNickName

Challenging moderation always goes well, eh?


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Italian take on a savory Danish Pastry? Pizza Taco?
> 
> I'd call that a very dry pizza, or just bad-wrong-fun.




We'd also get orders for cheeseless pizza once in a while too.

The bad wrong fun we had was the teriyaki slice of the day (I think turkey, not chicken).  As far as I know we never sold one (unlike the taco, cheeseburger, and Denver omelet slices).   I'm not sure if I even know of anyone who had tried one (well, I guess the chain owners had, but I don't no any witnesses to it).


----------



## Cadence

::: stands up and applauds :::


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Challenging moderation always goes well, eh?



A motorcycle board, where I'm a mod, has a rule that if you harass a mod via PMs, you're permanently banned. I've only seen 3 people stupid enough to test this in the over 20 years I've been a mod.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> What is a Stromboli?




A calzone is basically a pizza, folded over into a half-circle, and sealed.

A stromboli is a bread dough with toppings, typically little or no sauce, that is rolled up into a loaf and sealed.


----------



## CleverNickName

At the pizzaria I used to work at, 'panzarotti' was a smaller, hand-sized version of a calzone.  Sort of like a turnover or hand pie, but with pizza crust instead of pastry.  A bourgeois Hot Pocket.





Talk about blurring the line between pizza and sandwich, amirite?


----------



## payn

There was joint near my place that did Strombolis and they were packed with ingredients. I had a friend who ordered one up and told the person on the phone he wanted pepperoni and only pepperoni. They tried to tell him that their strombolis came with many ingridents but he wouldnt be swayed. It arrvied with what looked like a brick of pepperoni. My favorite quote from him to this day, "It's almost too gross to eat" Almost.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> At the pizzaria I used to work at, 'panzarotti' was a smaller, hand-sized version of a calzone.  Sort of like a turnover or hand pie, but with pizza crust instead of pastry.  A bourgeois Hot Pocket.
> 
> View attachment 149428
> 
> Talk about blurring the line between pizza and sandwich, amirite?



"If you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."


----------



## darjr

If you gaze into space pigs in space suites stare back at you.

that was a serious thread. Seriously


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> If you gaze into space pigs in space suites stare back at you.
> 
> that was a serious thread. Seriously









PIGS.

IN.

SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cadence

::: Group gets together to play poker at someone's house:::
Guest 1: I'm picturing this room with the couch, TV, and table switched around and the cat being kept somewhere else.
Guest 2: I can see why you'd think that.
Guest 3: That is completely reasonable.
Host: I'm happy to move the cat, but I'm not switching the furniture around.
Guest 1: It's really distracting me.
Host: Can any of you host?
Guests 1-3: Various excuses.
Guest 1:  We voted.
Guests 1-3: Get up to start moving the furniture around.
Host: Get out!
Guests 1-3: Tyrant!


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> ::: Group gets together to play poker at someone's house:::
> Guest 1: I'm picturing this room with the couch, TV, and table switched around and the cat being kept somewhere else.
> Guest 2: I can see why you'd think that.
> Guest 3: That is completely reasonable.
> Host: I'm happy to move the cat, but I'm not switching the furniture around.
> Guest 1: It's really distracting me.
> Host: Can any of you host?
> Guests 1-3: Various excuses.
> Guest 1:  We voted.
> Guests 1-3: Gets up to start moving the furniture around.
> Host: Get out!
> Guests 1-3: Tyrant!



Reminds me of the time I was driving up to a friend's cottage, with another friend. Knowing that he was just short of a chain smoker I told him to just let me know when he wanted to stop, for a smoke. We're 100 Kms from home and I start to smell a cigarette. Look over at him and he's smoking. I immediately pulled over to the side of the highway, looked him in the eyes, and said, "Get out." He didn't think that I was serious. I was.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> Reminds me of the time I was driving up to a friend's cottage, with another friend. Knowing that he was just short of a chain smoker I told him to just let me know when he wanted to stop, for a smoke. We're 100 Kms from home and I start to smell a cigarette. Look over at him and he's smoking. I immediately pulled over to the side of the highway, looked him in the eyes, and said, "Get out." He didn't think that I was serious. I was.



Been there, done that.  I had to forcibly remove him from the car too; he didn't think I would.  I just turned sideways in the driver seat, braced my back against my door, reached across his lap to open the passenger door, and literally kicked him to the curb.


----------



## Gradine

I think the overall point though is that ricotta is disgusting


----------



## Gradine

"You know what this pasta dish is missing? A filling that takes up the majority of the dish with the taste of rotten parmesan and the texture of undercooked grits." -Someone, apparently


----------



## Bolares

Gradine said:


> I think the overall point though is that ricotta is disgusting



there it is folks... the first time I disagree with Gradine.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Been there, done that.  I had to forcibly remove him from the car too; he didn't think I would.  I just turned sideways in the driver seat, braced my back against my door, reached across his lap to open the passenger door, and literally kicked him to the curb.



I did let him get back into the car, but only after driving about a half mile down the road away from him first. He didn't try lighting up again.


----------



## Bolares

Some smokers get used and forget how fetid cigarretes smell.


----------



## Ryujin

Bolares said:


> Some smokers get used and forget how fetid cigarretes smell.



"She sure does look sexy, with that cigarette hanging out of her mouth."
"Yeah, but she smells like a wet ash tray."


----------



## Gradine

Look, if you want ruin a perfectly good pasta with the worst cheese imaginable that's on you. It still boggles the mind that someone somehow made cheese... bad. How do you do that?!


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Look, if you want ruin a perfectly good pasta with the worst cheese imaginable that's on you. It still boggles the mind that someone somehow made cheese... bad. How do you do that?!



Velveeta
American cheese

Its very possible to make cheese bad.


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Look, if you want ruin a perfectly good pasta with the worst cheese imaginable that's on you. It still boggles the mind that someone somehow made cheese... bad. How do you do that?!




Mixed with the cottage cheese (and parmesan), it seems to work really well in our lasagna.  All ricotta was not good, but all cottage wasn't either (although better than all ricotta)


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Velveeta
> American cheese
> 
> Its very possible to make cheese bad.



To be fair to cheese, those are "cheese food products".


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> "She sure does look sexy, with that cigarette hanging out of her mouth."
> "Yeah, but she smells like a wet ash tray."



It's a thousand times worse in freezing temps. Not only is the stank amplified, but it lasts 10X as long.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Look, if you want ruin a perfectly good pasta with the worst cheese imaginable that's on you. It still boggles the mind that someone somehow made cheese... bad. How do you do that?!




Ricotta is just fancy people saying they eat cottage cheese.


----------



## Bolares

Ryujin said:


> "She sure does look sexy, with that cigarette hanging out of her mouth."
> "Yeah, but she smells like a wet ash tray."



yeah but... sometimes you are just horny


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> Mixed with the cottage cheese (and parmesan), it seems to work really erll in our lasagna.  All ricotta was not good, but all cottage wasn't either (although better than all ricotta)



All ricotta in a lasagna works fine as far as I'm concerned. But it is true that cottage cheese works pretty well as a substitute if ricotta isn't your thing.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> To be fair to cheese, those are "cheese food products".



They can also be made _good _in the right circumstances (namely Nachos and Philly Cheesesteaks)


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> They can also be made _good _in the right circumstances (namely Nachos and Philly Cheesesteaks)


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> They can also be made _good _in the right circumstances (namely Nachos and Philly Cheesesteaks)



The Velveeta can also be mixed with Jimmy Dean spicy sausage, spread on party rye bread, and baked for 10 minutes for a tasty treat for winter entertaining.

Edit to avoid uncooked sausage grossness: brown and drain the sausage, and then melt the velveeta into it.


----------



## Bolares

Gradine said:


> Look, if you want ruin a perfectly good pasta with the worst cheese imaginable that's on you. It still boggles the mind that someone somehow made cheese... bad. How do you do that?!



Ricotta does overpower the flavour of a lot of dishes, I grant you that. But in the right proportion, and in the right dish, it's delicious!


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> The Velveeta can also be mixed with Jimmy Dean spicy sausage, spread on party rye bread, and baked for 10 minutes for a tasty treat for winter entertaining.



That sounds delightful, actually.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> The Velveeta can also be mixed with Jimmy Dean spicy sausage, spread on party rye bread, and baked for 10 minutes for a tasty treat for winter entertaining.


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> Mixed with the cottage cheese (and parmesan), it seems to work really well in our lasagna.  All ricotta was not good, but all cottage wasn't either (although better than all ricotta)



I usually go for mussarella (I don't know how you gringos spell this) as the main cheese, and use parmesan for the toping.


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> That sounds delightful, actually.



Brown the sausage, drain, melt in equal amount of cheese.  400 degrees for 10 minutes or until browned enough.

Haven't been able to find the party rye bread this past year, but my cousin says that cutting up regular rye bread slices work.  (My aunt introduced it to the family. She used both ground beef  and sausage, but we've cut out the beef).


----------



## Cadence

Bolares said:


> I usually go for mussarella (I don't know how you gringos spell this) as the main cheese, and use parmesan for the toping.



We have a different layer with slices of mozzarella in it.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Brown the sausage, drain, melt in equal amount of cheese.  400 degrees for 10 minutes or until browned enough.
> 
> Haven't been able to find the party rye bread this past year, but my cousin says that cutting up regular rye bread slices work.  (My aunt introduced it to the family. She used both ground beef  and sausage, but we've cut out the beef).



Curious how it would go with some chipotle black bean crumbles, but I think at that point we're veering straight into rye tacos at that point.

Hmm... rye tacos...


----------



## Bolares

last month I made a dish that even my italian descendant granmother was proud of. Made some gnocci, melted some parmisan and mozzarella, with some milk to help it gain volume, and put it in the oven to get the top of the dish toasted. Meanwhile I made a "farofa" (a corn based, very fine crumb) with ground bacon in it and sprinkled it on top of the gnocci.


----------



## Umbran

Bolares said:


> Ricotta does overpower the flavour of a lot of dishes, I grant you that. But in the right proportion, and in the right dish, it's delicious!




Ricotta.. overpower?

You folks realize the date on the container is a "use before by" date, not a "use _after_ date" right?  Because typically ricotta is a super-mild cheese, unless you are making it from the milk of a seriously funky goat.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Ricotta.. overpower?
> 
> You folks realize the date on the container is a "use before by" date, not a "use _after_ date" right?  Because typically ricotta is a super-mild cheese, unless you are making it from the milk of a seriously funky goat.




When we were using it in lasagna not mixed with cottage cheese, it was the texture that was doing the overpowering.


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> Ricotta.. overpower?
> 
> You folks realize the date on the container is a "use before by" date, not a "use _after_ date" right?  Because typically ricotta is a super-mild cheese, unless you are making it from the milk of a seriously funky goat.



Because it is mild some people end up using too much of it, and then, when you take a bite, most of it is ricotta.


----------



## Bolares

"I strongly disagree with you"

5 minutes later...

"I was agreeing with you, read the entire post!"

Wich is it? Am I wrong or are the both of us?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Wich is it? Am I wrong or are the both of us?




Why not both?

We are both wrong, but you're twice as wrong as I am!


----------



## Cadence

Bolares said:


> "I strongly disagree with you"
> 
> 5 minutes later...
> 
> "I was agreeing with you, read the entire post!"
> 
> Wich is it? Am I wrong or are the both of us?




This isn't about Ricotta... is it?


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> This isn't about Ricotta... is it?



Not every part of my existance is made of cheese!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Not every part of my existance is made of cheese!




Then you live a sad and sorrowful existence.

It's like, how much more cheese should your existence be? And the answer is none. None more cheese.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Then you live a sad and sorrowful existence.
> 
> It's like, how much more cheese should your existence be? And the answer is none. None more cheese.



Well, sometimes you gotta sleep. Then your reality stops being cheese and your dreams become cheese.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Well, sometimes you gotta sleep. Then your reality stops being cheese and your dreams become cheese.




You have to turn your cheese dreams into reality cheese!

Just think, one day you can stop dreaming of it, and just go buy some Cheese-Whiz and shoot it right down your pie-hole. I don't know why people think it needs to go on crackers!


----------



## Cadence

I think they can be both.  

(Not about cheese life.)


----------



## TwoSix

Cadence said:


> (Not about cheese life.)



I didn't choose the cheese life, the cheese life chose me.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Cheese-Whiz



We don't have those here....


----------



## Bolares

TwoSix said:


> I didn't choose the cheese life, the cheese life chose me.



This comment is kind of cheesy


----------



## payn

Bolares said:


> We don't have those here....



Thats really nice thing not to have!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> We don't have those here....




You haven't lived until you've shot Cheez Whiz straight into your pie hole, followed it up with a heavy dollop of Reddi-Whip, and then slathered it all down your throat with a tequila chaser.


...or so I've heard.


----------



## Ryujin

Bolares said:


> We don't have those here....



I thought they had it everywhere, but under different names.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You haven't lived until you've shot Cheez Whiz straight into your pie hole, followed it up with a heavy dollop of Reddi-Whip, and then slathered it all down your throat with a tequila chaser.
> 
> 
> ...or so I've heard.



Well, at least we have free health care for all... And it sounds like I'm gonna need it if I'm going to try and do this.


----------



## TwoSix

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You haven't lived until you've shot Cheez Whiz straight into your pie hole, followed it up with a heavy dollop of Reddi-Whip, and then slathered it all down your throat with a tequila chaser.
> 
> 
> ...or so I've heard.



At least none of it was ricotta; that would have been gross.


----------



## Bolares

Ryujin said:


> I thought they had it everywhere, but under different names.



Nope, definatelly don't have CHEESE IN A SPRAY CAN in Brazil.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Well, at least we have free health care for all... And it sounds like I'm gonna need it if I'm going to try and do this.




I'll give you a dispensation and let you sub out the tequila for cachaca.


----------



## Ryujin

Bolares said:


> Nope, definatelly don't have CHEESE IN A SPRAY CAN in Brazil.



It also comes in jars.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

TwoSix said:


> At least none of it was ricotta; that would have been gross.




No! The one thing the tequila can't cure is the texture.

With the ricotta, it will be lumpy and slithy going down ... and probably coming up again 10 seconds later.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'll give you a dispensation and let you sub out the tequila for cachaca.



So you are a well cultured snarf... I still get sh*tfaced with tequila though. Just don't mix the both of them in the same day...


----------



## Bolares

@Snarf Zagyg coincidently, the small town I live in has a cachaça brand that has been chosen as the best cachaça in Brazil...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> So you are a wel cultured snarf... I still get sh*tfaced with tequila though. Just don't mix the both of them in the same day...




Well, of course! I'm cultured like yogurt.

*The Snarfpirinha*

Ingredients
1 lime, cut into wedges
2 teaspoons sugar
2 ounces cachaça
Garnish: lime wheel

Steps
1. In a double rocks glass, muddle the lime wedges and sugar.

2. Fill the glass with ice. Contemplate the glass.

3. Drink the two ounces of cachaça. Repeat as necessary until you forget this recipe.

4. Eat the lime wheel.


----------



## Bolares

I'd recommend you don't cut the lime in wedges. Cut the lime in 1/4s, remove the stemm thingy in the middle and squeeze the lime. the juice will flow much better this way. Also, strawberries make a delicious (but VERY sweet) capirinha...


----------



## Bolares

And as always, DON'T CUT LIMES AND GO IN THE SUN. Lime burns can be pretty serious, and if you are drunk sometimes you don't clean your hands very well after making the caipirinha.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> And as always, DON'T CUT LIMES AND GO IN THE SUN. Lime burns can be pretty serious, and if you are drunk sometimes you don't clean your hands very well after making the caipirinha.




Cut my own limes? Perish the thought.

Work is the scourge of the drinking class.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Cut my own limes? Perish the thought.
> 
> Work is the scourge of the drinking class.


----------



## Ryujin

Bolares said:


>



I always love it when I see a random Scott C Brown in the wild  

(He's a friend of mine  )


----------



## Umbran

TwoSix said:


> I didn't choose the cheese life, the cheese life chose me.




"And those were his last words before the cheeze-horta enveloped him, sir..."


----------



## Umbran

Bolares said:


> Well, at least we have free health care for all... And it sounds like I'm gonna need it if I'm going to try and do this.




Oh, it ins't an issue - the combination of cheese sauce and whipped cream comes right back up without need for medical assistance.


----------



## Cadence

What are the "really popular successful things" that also "have a really good product"?

McDonald's (3.5 x bigger than #2),  Dominoes/Pizza Hut (1.7x #3), Taco Bell (2x #2), Panda Express (5x #2) all seem meh at best.

In Chicken, you have Chick-Fil-A (which is at least better than what the burger places serve), but is still (2x #2) and hardly Popeye's or Bojangles.

Are Krispy Kreme and Dunkin' Donuts good donuts?


----------



## payn




----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Taco Bell (2x #2)




My wife has had a couple of recused ball pythons.  We fed them rats, purchased humanely killed and frozen.  

Pound for pound, Taco Bell food is _cheaper than rats_.



Cadence said:


> Are Kirspy Kreme and Dunkin' Donuts good donuts?




Not compared to the actual good donut shops we have around here, no.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Are Krispy Kreme and Dunkin' Donuts good donuts?




Ya drink some fakkin' Stah-bucks and eat a CRUMPET??!!!






I fakkin' LOVE Dunkin', guy!


----------



## dragoner

Next newest hot IP: Naked Lunch, the game where you rub drugs on a bug!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> Next newest hot IP: Naked Lunch, the game where you rub drugs on a bug!




You can't rewrite, 'cause to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words, is a betrayal, and it's a sin, dragoner, it's a sin.


----------



## dragoner

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You can't rewrite, 'cause to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words, is a betrayal, and it's a sin, dragoner, it's a sin.



I thought there might be a gif out there even, and then was like nah...


----------



## CleverNickName

Heh, another cantrip thread?  Well then.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> I thought there might be a gif out there even, and then was like nah...









I suppose it would make more sense than having an RPG based on Burroughs' cut ups; we'd just cut random rules from other RPGs and see what we get?


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> What are the "really popular successful things" that also "have a really good product"?
> 
> McDonald's (3.5 x bigger than #2),  Dominoes/Pizza Hut (1.7x #3), Taco Bell (2x #2), Panda Express (5x #2) all seem meh at best.



Think of popularity on a smaller scale. For example, I'm from south central Wisconsin where we have a much better option than McDonalds - Culvers. If you haven't had a chance to experience one yet, keep an eye out. They're regionally popular and their product is far and away better than McD.



Cadence said:


> In Chicken, you have Chick-Fil-A (which is at least better than what the burger places serve), but is still (2x #2) and hardly Popeye's or Bojangles.



Chick-Fil-A has a certain amount of administrative skill - when I would go to GenCon, they were consistently the only food place in the mall's food court that was ever ready for the big rush. But there's no way in hell I'm going to give them my custom so I can't even speak to the quality of their chicken.


Cadence said:


> Are Krispy Kreme and Dunkin' Donuts good donuts?



Krispy Kreme donuts are terrible as far as I'm concerned. And Dunkin' was better in my youthful memories than it is now. We've got local options much better than either. I'll hit them any time.


----------



## Asisreo

billd91 said:


> Chick-Fil-A has a certain amount of administrative skill - when I would go to GenCon, they were consistently the food place in the mall's food court that was ever ready for the big rush. But there's no way in hell I'm going to give them my custom so I can't even speak to the quality of their chicken.



CFA is amazing at customer service and administration front-of-house. They're super friendly and will accommodate even extraneous requests. It almost makes up for the fact that they're an American company and exploits their employees as best they can while also funding very dubious organizations. 

And no, I'm not allergic to peanuts!


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Think of popularity on a smaller scale. For example, I'm from south central Wisconsin where we have a much better option than McDonalds - Culvers. If you haven't had a chance to experience one yet, keep an eye out. They're regionally popular and their product is far and away better than McD.
> 
> 
> Chick-Fil-A has a certain amount of administrative skill - when I would go to GenCon, they were consistently the only food place in the mall's food court that was ever ready for the big rush. But there's no way in hell I'm going to give them my custom so I can't even speak to the quality of their chicken.
> 
> Krispy Kreme donuts are terrible as far as I'm concerned. And Dunkin' was better in my youthful memories than it is now. We've got local options much better than either. I'll hit them any time.



Im in freezy freezy Minneapolis and can confirm that Culvers is top notch fast food. As for CFA, I dont go there because its just not that good. 

Ohhh, got beard crystals from clearing snow just now brrrr


----------



## dragoner

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I suppose it would make more sense than having an RPG based on Burroughs' cut ups; we'd just cut random rules from other RPGs and see what we get?



You did find a gif! heh

Cut up rules from other rpgs sounds way better than playing William Tell with a grape ... or maybe that's the boss fight, against yourself in a mirror.


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> Think of popularity on a smaller scale. For example, I'm from south central Wisconsin where we have a much better option than McDonalds - Culvers. If you haven't had a chance to experience one yet, keep an eye out. They're regionally popular and their product is far and away better than McD.




We travel up to Northern WI every summer (picking up my folks on the way, and my Mom loves Culvers).


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> What are the "really popular successful things" that also "have a really good product"?
> 
> McDonald's (3.5 x bigger than #2),  Dominoes/Pizza Hut (1.7x #3), Taco Bell (2x #2), Panda Express (5x #2) all seem meh at best.
> 
> In Chicken, you have Chick-Fil-A (which is at least better than what the burger places serve), but is still (2x #2) and hardly Popeye's or Bojangles.
> 
> Are Krispy Kreme and Dunkin' Donuts good donuts?



How about really good products that failed miserably, because people can't math? Like A&W's 1/3 pound burger. People bought McD's over A&W because, "1/3 of a pound is less than 1/4 of a pound, because 4 is bigger than 3." Seriously.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> How about really good products that failed miserably, because people can't math? Like A&W's 1/3 pound burger. People bought McD's over A&W because, "1/3 of a pound is less than 1/4 of a pound, because 4 is bigger than 3." Seriously.




BEHOLD….. The FIVE FIFTEENTHS BURGER!!!!!

Muahahahahajajahahaha! Suck it, Ronald, you failed clown.


----------



## CleverNickName

Meh, I don't eat at Chick Fil-A.  The family-owned deli down the street has a better chicken sandwich, and they don't slather it with terrible politics.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> We travel up to Northern WI every summer (picking up my folks on the way, and my Mom loves Culvers).



With My Mom it was Long John Silvers. We’d get her and she’d make rice and soup and salad and then go get LJS for the main course.

Then she moved down here and it kinda, eventually, lost its shine for her.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> With My Mom it was Long John Silvers. We’d get her and she’d make rice and soup and salad and then go get LJS for the main course.
> 
> Then she moved down here and it kinda, eventually, lost its shine for her.



My mom's real favorite is Cracker Barrel... but no one has time for that on a road trip!


----------



## darjr

Ya know, if that advice of yours gets me into trouble I'm going to be quite put out.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Ya know, if that advice of yours gets me into trouble I'm going to be quite put out.




Advice is worth what you pay for it.

Which is why I pay celebrities to read me my own advice using Cameo! I mean, I'm telling myself what I want to hear, but I'm paying a pretty penny for it. Plus, Robert Picardo (aka Doctor Hologram) needs a new beach house.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Advice is worth what you pay for it.
> 
> Which is why I pay celebrities to read me my own advice using Cameo! I mean, I'm telling myself what I want to hear, but I'm paying a pretty penny for it. Plus, Robert Picardo (aka Doctor Hologram) needs a new beach house.



In the court of my personal opinion, that's not going to hold up.


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


> How about really good products that failed miserably, because people can't math? Like A&W's 1/3 pound burger. People bought McD's over A&W because, "1/3 of a pound is less than 1/4 of a pound, because 4 is bigger than 3." Seriously.



This reminds me of the time JC Penneys got a new CEO who was like "enough with false advertising and deceptive sales!" So they stopped doing what all department stores do (that is, mark clothing at twice its value and then sell them for "half off") and for their better business practice they were rewarded with record profit losses because customers were upset nothing was on "sale" anymore.


----------



## darjr

Let’s not emulate them then?

edit: from another thread


----------



## Cadence

I have to admit that "Vote Your Own Adventure: Cantina Party Challenge" might be fun with the right group.


----------



## darjr

No link?! 

NO LIKE!


----------



## Asisreo

Huh, a thread disappeared.


----------



## Not a Hobbit

Curious as to why you had to post something in one thread, then start a new thread with the exact same post.


----------



## darjr

Cause I’m an idiot


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Cause I’m an idiot




Not at all. It deserved a separate post. 

To paraphrase an '80s movie, no one puts Darlene in the corner.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Not at all. It deserved a separate post.
> 
> To paraphrase an '80s movie, no one puts Darlene in the corner.



Ah, while all true it has no bearing on my post.


----------



## J.Quondam

Now I kinda want to make a paladin named "Oxford" who triple-wields _kamas of disambiguation_.


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> Now I kinda want to make a paladin named "Oxford" who triple-wields _kamas of disambiguation_.


----------



## Umbran

Asisreo said:


> Huh, a thread disappeared.




One thread this morning died, because the person who started it some time ago came back and edited spam links into the original post.


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> One thread this morning died, because the person who started it some time ago came back and edited spam links into the original post.



Ew.  I guess that technique works on less-moderated boards.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> Ew.  I guess that technique works on less-moderated boards.




Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bunch of threads 72 pages back that have had this done to them.  Editing a post doesn't bump it to the front page, so they can sit back there unnoticed.  

The point isn't to get us to click the links, merely to have them present.  The more things link to your page, the higher you go in search engine results.


----------



## Asisreo

Umbran said:


> One thread this morning died, because the person who started it some time ago came back and edited spam links into the original post.



That sucks. It was kinda an interesting thread, too.


----------



## Umbran

Asisreo said:


> That sucks. It was kinda an interesting thread, too.



I'm discussing with Morrus how we can handle it.


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bunch of threads 72 pages back that have had this done to them.  Editing a post doesn't bump it to the front page, so they can sit back there unnoticed.
> 
> The point isn't to get us to click the links, merely to have them present.  The more things link to your page, the higher you go in search engine results.



Huh, I had no idea.

I'll have to keep this in mind whenever I'm deciding to add links to my posts.  I know lots of places that could use some search-engine love, and plenty that could stand to be muted a bit.  (cough)TSR3(cough)


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> Huh, I had no idea.
> 
> I'll have to keep this in mind whenever I'm deciding to add links to my posts.  I know lots of places that could use some search-engine love, and plenty that could stand to be muted a bit.  (cough)TSR3(cough)




Do remember - these spammers are doing this on an industrial scale, with automation.  One person putting a link on a page isn't going to move the needle of search engines.  Spammers are scattering hundreds and thousands of them around.


----------



## Ryujin

On one board, where I'm a mod, the idiots have taken to botting spam links into the _report_ links, of all places. OK, the board software doesn't include IP banning of guest reports, however, only mods can see it.


----------



## darjr

That post is going to be the last post forever, isn’t it?


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> That post is going to be the last post forever, isn’t it?



Until the very next one, yes


----------



## Cadence

Wait, was that a serious offer!?!?!


----------



## Cadence

Edit: I'd tell you a story about why I edited out what used to be here, but I'm pretty sure it could be argued it wasn't really a story.


----------



## Cadence

"I am impenetrable!" (As gauntlet is thrown down)

(Confusedly picks up gauntlet) "Don't you mean inevitable?"


----------



## Cadence

Way off tangent:

Large standardized testing companies do quite a bit of work to make sure they don't have biased test items.  Part of this is pretty qualitative, but there are also statistical tests for "differential item functioning (DIF)".  Had an assignment in a class once where we were asked to do something like guess which items on an operational test had shown different levels of estimated DIF and, if so, against which group. After seeing the answers It was pretty hard to figure out why some of them showed the way they did. I think in some cases we spent quite a bit of time speculating without suggesting it was just a Type I or II error.  Accompanying the exercise with examples of the (presumably) problematic ones that were screened out earlier in the process would have been nice too.  Only seeing the ones on the edges feels like it would miss part of the big picture. A blurb about the awful stuff that used to be common in the big tests would be a nice addition to the text books too.


----------



## Asisreo

Well, that thread went in a different direction...

It's been an awful and stressful week for me. I usually take short rests, but I'll take a long one this time.


----------



## Cadence

Remember that great Finland diversion earlier in the "didn't post  thread"  (with a Monty Python video even)?
Want something on the other side of the world from New Zealand?
Vote Mielikki!
Don't set yourself up for a bad Nuutipukki visit by picking someone else or not voting!


----------



## darjr

That's some weird hill.


----------



## darjr

Is this good? Is this bad? Did I make a mistake? Or not? Probably all of it. 

Nuts.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Is this good? Is this bad? Did I make a mistake? Or not? Probably all of it.
> 
> Nuts.




Voting for Mielikki in the deities thread might make you feel better about things in general!  Snarf voted for her, so you know it has to be good.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Voting for Mielikki in the deities thread might make you feel better about things in general!  Snarf voted for her, so you know it has to be good.




I think my endorsement carries risks. 


...jus' sayin'.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> That's some weird hill.




....the weirdest. Like, if I peer really hard and twist my head around, I kinda sorts maybe see the original idea that was poorly expressed.

But dang.


----------



## CleverNickName

Come on folks, get this over with.
I've got a whole new pantheon ready to go.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Come on folks, get this over with.
> I've got a whole new pantheon ready to go.



I'm trying to get @darjr  to go vote!


----------



## darjr

How? How do I vote?


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> How? How do I vote?



Copy the last post with numbers (I think current totals are 3, 4, and 4).  Add +1 to Meliekki and -2 to the other with the highest number that you like least*.  If you feel like it, bold and color green the one you voted +1 on, and red for the -2 one.









						D&D 5E - 5E Survivor - Deities (Part 1: Forgotten Realms) Selune Advances!
					

Hello everyone, it's time for another Survivor thread! As you already know, I'll be taking over the Survivor 5E Threads for a little while...so if you have any suggestions for upcoming topics, feel free to DM me.  -----  This thread is inspired by prior threads that we've done. And now it's...




					www.enworld.org
				




* Some may disagree with who gets the +1, they are incorrect.


----------



## darjr

OK I think I got it.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> Copy the last post with numbers (I think current totals are 3, 4, and 4).  Add +1 to Meliekki and -2 to the other with the highest number that you like least*.  If you feel like it, bold and color green the one you voted +1 on, and red for the -2 one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D&D 5E - 5E Survivor - Deities (Part 1: Forgotten Realms) Selune Advances!
> 
> 
> Hello everyone, it's time for another Survivor thread! As you already know, I'll be taking over the Survivor 5E Threads for a little while...so if you have any suggestions for upcoming topics, feel free to DM me.  -----  This thread is inspired by prior threads that we've done. And now it's...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.enworld.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Some may disagree with who gets the +1, they are incorrect.



I have a better idea: How about we kill Meliekki as a prank?


----------



## darjr

Sorry, sorry.

We're taking down the holiday lights and I hate it. Can I put up different lights?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Copy the last post with numbers (I think current totals are 3, 4, and 4).  Add +1 to Meliekki and -2 to the other with the highest number that you like least*.  If you feel like it, bold and color green the one you voted +1 on, and red for the -2 one.



You misspelled "Selune."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> You misspelled "Selune."




Only a lunatic would vote for Selune.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Only a lunatic would vote for Selune.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Only a lunatic would vote for Selune.



Or a lycanthrope


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Or a lycanthrope




Or followers of the Unification Church.


----------



## Cadence

I didn't mean for it to be so hard. (No, not that thread!)


----------



## Gradine

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Or a lycanthrope



Same difference


----------



## Ryujin

No Raven Queen? I'm out.


----------



## CleverNickName

It hardly seems fair, I know...we've got Nerull, but no Raven Queen?  I guess she's 4E, not Greyhawk.  Does she show up in _any_ of the deity lists in the PHB?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> It hardly seems fair, I know...we've got Nerull, but no Raven Queen?  I guess she's 4E, not Greyhawk.  Does she show up in _any_ of the deity lists in the PHB?



Nope. She appears in the Dawn War Pantheon in the DMG, though.


----------



## darjr

Is that thread bad? I dint have much to say in the topic cept “good for them” but I dint wanna even peek.


----------



## CleverNickName

That's a shame.  The Raven Queen was the best part of 4E's lore.
And 4E's lore was the best part of 4E, in my opinion.


----------



## Eltab

CleverNickName said:


> The Raven Queen was the best part of 4E's lore.
> And 4E's lore was the best part of 4E, in my opinion.



When a thread started "What is your Avenger's Oath?" (on the old WotC forums), the most material was for Raven Queen -inspired characters.  Some of it was profoundly thoughtful, not just a hack-and-slash goddess of killing.  The player-provided contributions raised my estimation of the Raven Queen by several notches.


----------



## Ryujin

Eltab said:


> When a thread started "What is your Avenger's Oath?" (on the old WotC forums), the most material was for Raven Queen -inspired characters.  Some of it was profoundly thoughtful, not just a hack-and-slash goddess of killing.  The player-provided contributions raised my estimation of the Raven Queen by several notches.



My 4e FaeLock/Bard multi was a convert to the Raven Queen at Paragon. Picked up Dark Pact as his second Pact. His original schtick was singing his spells, like in the LotR creation myths. That became a Funeral Dirge. Oh, the death to minions he sewed with a Rod of Corruption.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Muahahahahahahahaha! Today is the day! I did it!

Shortly after joining this site, a person blocked me because I made fun of Return of the Jedi. Which was their all-time favorite Star Wars movie. It was weird for so many reasons- I mean, who does that? What type of board was this? And who does some kind of weird flaunt about it and announces it? 

In addition, as a Star Trek fan, I don't get this weird obsession about ranking Star Wars "correctly." Why so serious? Wait. What? What are you saying about Kirk? TAKE THAT BACK YOU DIRTY PICARD-LOVER. Ahem. Anyway ....

That occurred eight months ago. And I resolved to pass this person on the highest reaction score list, just because I could. It's good to have goals! And I did it. I'd like to thank my long and rambling posts, and my recent quarantine because I have a bad habit of licking the handrails on public transportation.

Ugh. Now I need a new goal.


----------



## Cadence

So, if I want to include a Hodag in my game, is it better or worse if I also include folks running around with cheese-shaped wedges on their heads and Fargo reminiscent accents?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Muahahahahahahahaha! Today is the day! I did it!
> 
> Shortly after joining this site, a person blocked me because I made fun of Return of the Jedi. Which was their all-time favorite Star Wars movie. It was weird for so many reasons- I mean, who does that? What type of board was this? And who does some kind of weird flaunt about it and announces it?
> 
> In addition, as a Star Trek fan, I don't get this weird obsession about ranking Star Wars "correctly." Why so serious? Wait. What? What are you saying about Kirk? TAKE THAT BACK YOU DIRTY PICARD-LOVER. Ahem. Anyway ....
> 
> That occurred eight months ago. And I resolved to pass this person on the highest reaction score list, just because I could. It's good to have goals! And I did it. I'd like to thank my long and rambling posts, and my recent quarantine because I have a bad habit of licking the handrails on public transportation.
> 
> Ugh. Now I need a new goal.



Just tell the truth. Ben Sisco was the best Star Trek Captain.


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Muahahahahahahahaha! Today is the day! I did it!




Congratulations!



Snarf Zagyg said:


> It was weird for so many reasons- I mean, who does that? What type of board was this? And who does some kind of weird flaunt about it and announces it?




I don't think it's against the rules to say you're ignoring someone, but I don't think it's very nice to do that. It sounds like a parting shot... I don't see the added value of telling anyone "hey, you! You _draw (something, such as liquid) into the mouth through a suction force produced by movements of the lips and tongue_, [I have a new year resolution to be polite] I don't want to read your content anymore".




Snarf Zagyg said:


> That occurred eight months ago. And I resolved to pass this person on the highest reaction score list, just because I could. It's good to have goals! And I did it. I'd like to thank my long and rambling posts, and my recent quarantine because I have a bad habit of licking the handrails on public transportation.




How do you see the ranking of highest reactions? Is there a contest for the most interesting poster? Can you sort by reaction/post ratio?


----------



## dragoner

Uri Geller is bigger than Jesus.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Just tell the truth. Ben Sisco was the best Star Trek Captain.



You misspelled "Hikaru Sulu."


----------



## Cadence

<friend stops to smell the roses>
"So, what did the rose smell like?"
<friend describes the smell>
"Bah, it's meaningless anyway unless you choose to make it so in the future."


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> So, if I want to include a Hodag in my game, is it better or worse if I also include folks running around with cheese-shaped wedges on their heads and Fargo reminiscent accents?



And their Old Fashioned cocktails must be made with brandy (for some god forsaken reason).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Just tell the truth. Ben Sisco was the best Star Trek Captain.




Hmmm. I love me some Benjamin Sisko. I think that Sisko went from being the most under-rated Captain to being the consensus hipster choice - you know, "Oh, stop with your incessant Picard/Kirk debates. It's really Sisko! Now, help me find my unicycle."

Honestly, I think the debate comes down to the three frontrunners- Kirk, Picard, and Sisko ... because they each brought something different and a bit novel to the show. Kirk, because he was first, and he established the template. Picard, because he wasn't Kirk- he showed a completely different way to be the Captain. And Sisko somehow managed to thread both the gravitas of Picard and some of the emotion of Kirk without being either.

I love them all. I ... just love .... Kirk .... more.

I finally got around to watching all the rest of the Paramount+ Star Treks during my quarantine (I hadn't seen Picard or Lower Decks, and I was behind on ST:  Disco), and I'm pondering doing a longer Star Trek post. Of relevance is that I am still thinking about Captain Burnham. I really, really love Seasons 3 & 4 (so far), but I am still trying to determine how I feel about her in the pantheon of captains.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Galandris said:


> Congratulations!




Thank you! I mean, it was a really petty goal, but ... I own that. 



Galandris said:


> How do you see the ranking of highest reactions? Is there a contest for the most interesting poster? Can you sort by reaction/post ratio?




There used to be a link to it under Community. Now you have to go directly to it. Go to this page-








						Notable members
					






					www.enworld.org
				




And there's different stuff you can look at.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Thank you! I mean, it was a really petty goal, but ... I own that.



Petty goals are best goals.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hmmm. I love me some Benjamin Sisko. I think that Sisko went from being the most under-rated Captain to being the consensus hipster choice - you know, "Oh, stop with your incessant Picard/Kirk debates. It's really Sisko! Now, help me find my unicycle."
> 
> Honestly, I think the debate comes down to the three frontrunners- Kirk, Picard, and Sisko ... because they each brought something different and a bit novel to the show. Kirk, because he was first, and he established the template. Picard, because he wasn't Kirk- he showed a completely different way to be the Captain. And Sisko somehow managed to thread both the gravitas of Picard and some of the emotion of Kirk without being either.
> 
> I love them all. I ... just love .... Kirk .... more.
> 
> I finally got around to watching all the rest of the Paramount+ Star Treks during my quarantine (I hadn't seen Picard or Lower Decks, and I was behind on ST:  Disco), and I'm pondering doing a longer Star Trek post. Of relevance is that I am still thinking about Captain Burnham. I really, really love Seasons 3 & 4 (so far), but I am still trying to determine how I feel about her in the pantheon of captains.




Is it bad if I rank Sheridan right after Kirk.  I imagine if they did the things between the last regular episode and the finale in the future, Ivanova might make the high part of the list too given she got that promotion.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Is it bad if I rank Sheridan right after Kirk.  I imagine if they did the things between the last regular episode and the finale in the future, Ivanova might make the high part of the list too given she got that promotion.




....you're trying to hurt me, aren't you?

Mixing B5 and Star Trek is like a New Zealand topping on a pizza; an abomination that makes me throw up in my mouth when I think about it. There will be no G'Kar/Spock slash fic, do you understand me? None of that foolishness!


----------



## CleverNickName

(CleverNickName has entered the chat)
Did someone say pizza?

For the life of me, I will never understand why space-magic needs to be different from book-magic (which _needs _to be different from blood-magic (which _neeeeeeeds _to be different from god-magic (which _absolutely must be different _from song-magic (etc.)))). 

Do we need five (and counting!) unique game mechanics to accomplish the same thing?  I mean, clearly we do, but I'll never understand why.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> (CleverNickName has entered the chat)
> Did someone say pizza?
> 
> For the life of me, I will never understand why space-magic needs to be different from book-magic (which _needs _to be different from blood-magic (which _neeeeeeeds _to be different from god-magic (which _absolutely must be different _from song-magic (etc.)))).
> 
> Do we need five (and counting!) unique game mechanics to accomplish the same thing?  I mean, clearly we do, but I'll never understand why.




Well, you need to differentiate the song-magic so you know who the bards are.

When the revolution comes, the song-magickers will be the first with their backs against the wall.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hmmm. I love me some Benjamin Sisko. I think that Sisko went from being the most under-rated Captain to being the consensus hipster choice - you know, "Oh, stop with your incessant Picard/Kirk debates. It's really Sisko! Now, help me find my unicycle."
> 
> Honestly, I think the debate comes down to the three frontrunners- Kirk, Picard, and Sisko ... because they each brought something different and a bit novel to the show. Kirk, because he was first, and he established the template. Picard, because he wasn't Kirk- he showed a completely different way to be the Captain. And Sisko somehow managed to thread both the gravitas of Picard and some of the emotion of Kirk without being either.
> 
> I love them all. I ... just love .... Kirk .... more.
> 
> I finally got around to watching all the rest of the Paramount+ Star Treks during my quarantine (I hadn't seen Picard or Lower Decks, and I was behind on ST:  Disco), and I'm pondering doing a longer Star Trek post. Of relevance is that I am still thinking about Captain Burnham. I really, really love Seasons 3 & 4 (so far), but I am still trying to determine how I feel about her in the pantheon of captains.



And Sisko punched Q.

I'm a Kirk fan, but I'd crew under Sisko any day of the week.


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....you're trying to hurt me, aren't you?
> 
> Mixing B5 and Star Trek is like a New Zealand topping on a pizza; an abomination that makes me throw up in my mouth when I think about it. There will be no G'Kar/Spock slash fic, do you understand me? None of that foolishness!




On the other hand, a Kirk/Na'Thot slash fic is most believeable.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> (CleverNickName has entered the chat)
> Did someone say pizza?
> 
> For the life of me, I will never understand why space-magic needs to be different from book-magic (which _needs _to be different from blood-magic (which _neeeeeeeds _to be different from god-magic (which _absolutely must be different _from song-magic (etc.)))).
> 
> Do we need five (and counting!) unique game mechanics to accomplish the same thing?  I mean, clearly we do, but I'll never understand why.



Clearly you have never played Rolemaster with it's hundred or so weapon hit charts, 30 types of armour, and 3 different magic realms (with combos of those realms for added spice).


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> And Sisko punched Q.
> 
> I'm a Kirk fan, but I'd crew under Sisko any day of the week.



He also became a demi-god essentially. He now exists in every timeline!


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> Clearly you have never played Rolemaster with it's hundred or so weapon hit charts, 30 types of armour, and 3 different magic realms (with combos of those realms for added spice).



We used to call it roll-master.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> Clearly you have never played Rolemaster with it's hundred or so weapon hit charts, 30 types of armour, and 3 different magic realms (with combos of those realms for added spice).



You are correct, and you have accurately described _why _you are correct.  Why would I subject myself to that?


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> And Sisko punched Q.
> 
> I'm a Kirk fan, but I'd crew under Sisko any day of the week.



Would punching a Douwd be more impressive than punching a Q?

Anyway, it is a shame that Anakin's "I killed them all" shows up in google before Kevin Uxbridge's.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> (CleverNickName has entered the chat)
> Did someone say pizza?
> 
> For the life of me, I will never understand why space-magic needs to be different from book-magic (which _needs _to be different from blood-magic (which _neeeeeeeds _to be different from god-magic (which _absolutely must be different _from song-magic (etc.)))).
> 
> Do we need five (and counting!) unique game mechanics to accomplish the same thing?  I mean, clearly we do, but I'll never understand why.



Walking tanks are a really dumb idea too, but its just awesome. Which makes it necessary. I believe they call this concept awecessary.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> You are correct, and you have accurately described _why _you are correct.  Why would I subject myself to that?



Tobe fair, past character creation, any player only needs a few pages of info to reference, actually.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> ...its just awesome.



Meh, if you say so.  Seems silly to me.


----------



## dragoner

CleverNickName said:


> Meh, if you say so.  Seems silly to me.



Next up, psionic mechs.


----------



## CleverNickName

dragoner said:


> Next up, psionic mechs.



Eventually, psionic ninja space airship pirate squid cultist robot zombies! with lutes!


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Meh, if you say so.  Seems silly to me.



Awesome > logical > Silly. I dont make up the rules.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Awesome > logical > Silly. I dont make up the rules.



You should try DMing sometime then!


----------



## dragoner

CleverNickName said:


> Eventually, psionic ninja space airship pirate squid cultist robot zombies! with lutes!



That's the game, it's like a punk rock band name: _Godzilla and the Big Stompy Robots ..._


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> We used to call it roll-master.



Arms Law, Claw Law, Character Law.... All rolled up into one big mass (mess) called Rolemaster. One of my players figured out the rolling a 66 on the critical hit chart was almost always an insta-kill and, surprise surprise, started rolling that number several times a session. Was killed by a 10x10x10 stone block trap that required you make 100% success on a virtually impossible Athletics check. "OK, you're 75% successful. You have managed to get everything clear of the block that's above your waistline. Sadly, that means everything below that point has been completely crushed and you bleed out in one minute." It was from a published LotR dungeon.


----------



## Galandris

Rolemaster.


Ryujin said:


> Clearly you have never played Rolemaster with it's hundred or so weapon hit charts, 30 types of armour, and 3 different magic realms (with combos of those realms for added spice).




And the critical tables that could roll over... Call lightning? F critical? Sure "Side strike melts foe's lower skeleton and destroy a variety of organs. Foe is inactive and dies in 9 rounds" but also "foe hears a crackling sound and loses 1 round of initiative". There is nothing more pleasurable than knowing that the nine rounds of agony your spell caused would be compounded by auditory discomfort for your foe.

Ah, those were the days, back when we had realistic magic rules...


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> Arms Law, Claw Law, Character Law.... All rolled up into one big mass (mess) called Rolemaster. One of my players figured out the rolling a 66 on the critical hit chart was almost always an insta-kill and, surprise surprise, started rolling that number several times a session. Was killed by a 10x10x10 stone block trap that required you make 100% success on a virtually impossible Athletics check. "OK, you're 75% successful. You have managed to get everything clear of the block that's above your waistline. Sadly, that means everything below that point has been completely crushed and you bleed out in one minute." It was from a published LotR dungeon.



That's exactly how we played, with Arms Law first, etc. and then he got a MERP book, one of the Mirkwood ones. It was ok, though we eventually switched to AD&D for ease of use. Those ICE modules were the bees knees for quality though, so nice ...


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> That's exactly how we played, with Arms Law first, etc. and then he got a MERP book, one of the Mirkwood ones. It was ok, though we eventually switched to AD&D for ease of use. Those ICE modules were the bees knees for quality though, so nice ...



The artwork in them was incredible and the Middle Earth lore was pretty deep. I did actually have a player who got greedy when the party cleaned out a barrow. It ended... badly for him.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> The artwork in them was incredible and the Middle Earth lore was pretty deep. I did actually have a player who got greedy when the party cleaned out a barrow. It ended... badly for him.



He found the Wight? No Beornlings to help then. I think if I ran that again, I'd use Mythras.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> He found the Wight? No Beornlings to help then. I think if I ran that again, I'd use Mythras.



No, he became a wight. It was the curse for being greedy and taking more than you need, from a barrow.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> No, he became a wight. It was the curse for being greedy and taking more than you need, from a barrow.



He found the Wight was himself along the the way ...


----------



## Parmandur

He had the Wight stuff.


----------



## darjr

Thank you!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> (CleverNickName has entered the chat)
> Did someone say pizza?
> 
> For the life of me, I will never understand why space-magic needs to be different from book-magic (which _needs _to be different from blood-magic (which _neeeeeeeds _to be different from god-magic (which _absolutely must be different _from song-magic (etc.)))).
> 
> Do we need five (and counting!) unique game mechanics to accomplish the same thing?  I mean, clearly we do, but I'll never understand why.



You've clearly never read a Brandon Sanderson book.


----------



## CleverNickName

With apologies to Sarah Anderson, whose work I respect and appreciate.







Spoiler: Original comic






Sorry about using Comic Sans MS, too.


----------



## Galandris

I am very interested to know how, in this particular setting, the authors used alignments.


----------



## Cadence

Do the side effects of a pandemic include becoming overly pedantic, assuming the worst of others, and  finding it hard to not be insulting?  (Asking for a friend. Or at least fellow message board members. By the dozen.). And being judgemental and snarky?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Do the side effects of a pandemic include becoming overly pedantic, assuming the worst of others, and  finding it hard to not be insulting?  (Asking for a friend. Or at least fellow message board members. By the dozen.). And being judgemental and snarky?



THIS IS NOT AN ATTITUDE THIS IS MY PERSONALITY


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Do the side effects of a pandemic include becoming overly pedantic, assuming the worst of others, and  finding it hard to not be insulting?  (Asking for a friend. Or at least fellow message board members. By the dozen.). And being judgemental and snarky?



From my recollection, this is a preexisting endemic condition of humanity.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> From my recollection, this is a preexisting endemic condition of humanity.



I was afraid it might be, but not remembering, and hoping it would go away when the pandemic faded more into the background :-(


----------



## dragoner

Holy crap, something is wrong with the forum!


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> THIS IS NOT AN ATTITUDE THIS IS MY PERSONALITY



"I'm just being brutally honest."


----------



## Cadence

"Of course Scooby-Doo Team-Up should be canon in the DC Universe.  A good editor can work with _anything_."


----------



## Cadence

"Crap, I'm going to get blocked from this thread. What can I necro to make my point on."


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> "Of course Scooby-Doo Team-Up should be canon in the DC Universe.  A good editor can work with _anything_."



If they do that, it won't be very popular. Can't have Superman lose the inevitable cross-over fight with Shaggy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> If they do that, it won't be very popular. Can't have Superman lose the inevitable cross-over fight with Shaggy.




Batman: Did you bring the Kryptonite?

Shaggy: What.......

Batman: THE KRYPTONITE! Evil Superman is almost here and he's going to kill us, did you BRING THE KRYPTONITE?????

Shaggy: Whaaaaaaaaaat .... You told me to bring the green stuff ....

Batman: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? It's too la.............._squish_

Shaggy: Woah. _inhale_ I didn't know blood was so red! _long exhale_


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Batman: Did you bring the Kryptonite?
> 
> Shaggy: What.......
> 
> Batman: THE KRYPTONITE! Evil Superman is almost here and here's going to kill us, did you BRING THE KRYPTONITE?????
> 
> Shaggy: What .... You told me to bring the green stuff ....
> 
> Batman: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? It's too la.............._squish_
> 
> Shaggy: Woah. _inhale_ I didn't know blood was so red! _long exhale_



Jinkies


----------



## darjr

Everting is a sign of doom and gloom!


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Everting is a sign of doom and gloom!
> 
> View attachment 149732



The Millenial experience.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Everting is a sign of doom and gloom!
> 
> View attachment 149732




But what was life like before 2016?


----------



## Cadence

I vote for neo-classical architecture, powdered wigs, and names like George and Thomas.  Not many other changes needed at all.


----------



## darjr

I remember someone telling me D&D was mothballed after the WotC hostile takeover of TSR.

I tried to point them to Ryan Dancys post about that purchase but their comeback was “I’m not going to believe the WotC suit who headed the WotC hostile takeover of L5R!”

_facepalm_

Right now I’m getting very similar vibes.

On several fronts.


----------



## CleverNickName

My wife and I were trying to decide what to watch the other day.  We saw The Witcher in the Netflix queue.  "Oh look, they made a second season of '_Broody Special-Man and Earworm the Bard_'," my wife said.  I have been chuckling about it ever since.


----------



## darjr

Only reason I want to watch it. In fact I was cinfised until the ear worm showed up.

I was like “how dare they leave em out! It’s the end of days!”


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> My wife and I were trying to decide what to watch the other day.  We saw The Witcher in the Netflix queue.  "Oh look, they made a second season of '_Broody Special-Man and Earworm the Bard_'," my wife said.  I have been chuckling about it ever since.




One thing I fail to understand is why some shows succeed, and others don't.

For example, I remembered recently about the show, Into the Badlands (originally on AMC, now on Netflix). That's a pretty good show! Or others, like The Patriot (Amazon Prime) or Counterpart (also Amazon Prime) which are also really good and, seemingly, no one has heard of. 

Or just oddities- Comrade Detective is the most fun, weird, and truly bizarre thing ever to be made. It's like a fever dream mashup of an Adult Swim bit along with 80s nostalgia played straight, yet, again, no one I know has ever heard of it, and I occasionally have to look it up on Wikipedia just to assure myself that I didn't imagine it (kinda like Wonder Showzen...).

There is just such a quantity of amazing television right now, it is shocking how much falls through the cracks.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> One thing I fail to understand is why some shows succeed, and others don't.



I know right?


Snarf Zagyg said:


> For example, I remembered recently about the show, Into the Badlands (originally on AMC, now on Netflix). That's a pretty good show!



Oh wait we are talking about different things...


Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or others, like The Patriot (Amazon Prime) or Counterpart (also Amazon Prime) which are also really good and, seemingly, no one has heard of.



Im back with you now.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or just oddities- Comrade Detective is the most fun, weird, and truly bizarre thing ever to be made. It's like a fever dream mashup of an Adult Swim bit along with 80s nostalgia played straight, yet, again, no one I know has ever heard of it, and I occasionally have to look it up on Wikipedia just to assure myself that I didn't imagine it (kinda like Wonder Showzen...).



Not seen it. Ill take a look.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is just such a quantity of amazing television right now, it is shocking how much falls through the cracks.



The landscape is different with streaming. I think they are still figuring it out. A lot of bad TV seems to be hanging around again while good stuff gets the axe. Which is a shame.

Oh and that mediocre Yellowstone is getting like 5+ spinoffs...


----------



## CleverNickName

I'm still scratching my head over the success of "Tiger King."  Seriously, what is wrong with people?


----------



## Gradine

Exploitative reality television helps some people feel better about themselves. It's toxic, but it's true.

The proper ranking is Sisco > Picard > Janeway > Kirk

Return of the Jedi is a very good Star Wars movie and one of my favorites, though that's largely nostalgia and deep and unabating love of classic trilogy starships. That said, people who rank it below Revenge of the Sith are replicants and should be promptly retired*

*Alternate dialogue: "...are Cylons and should be promptly airlocked"


----------



## Cadence

Hm.  Thread title I hadn't seen. "Military forces of capitalist hegemony"?


----------



## Cadence

Holy cats.  I have no idea how that wasn't a personal insult.  I usually don't have a problem with reporting things (probably too often); I wonder if my inability to click report on this one is related to bystander syndrome.

I also note I have no problem posting in this thread a lot.  Maybe need to cut back.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Holy cats.  I have no idea how that wasn't a personal insult.  I usually don't have a problem with reporting things (probably too often), and so I wonder if my inability to click report on this one is related to bystander syndrome.
> 
> I also note I have no problem posting in this thread a lot.  Maybe need to cut back.



I dunno, I'm finding rhe goofy outlet valve helpful, so I don't worry too much about adding to the nuttiness here. 

Then, I seem to let my mouth run off anyhow, so there you go.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> I dunno, I'm finding rhe goofy outlet valve helpful, so I don't worry too much about adding to the nuttiness here.
> 
> Then, I seem to let my mouth run off anyhow, so there you go.




Everything, O Parmandur, is burning.

The threads are burning, all the comments are burning, your thoughts are burning. They are burning with the fire of the reply. There is anger, and there is ignorance, there is hatred, and as long as the fire finds flammable comments of others upon which it can feed, so long will it burn, and there will be birth of new threads and the death of thread locks, decay of topics, griefers, lamentations, suffering, despair, and ragequits.

You must divest yourself of passion and become free of the need to comment and to explain to people why they are wrong. Only then will you be delivered from the tyranny of the reply and attain the blessed state of Nirvana.

Otherwise, you are doomed to return again and again. Remember- all new commenters are just old commenters reborn. Such is the eternal wheel.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Everything, O Parmandur, is burning.
> 
> The threads are burning, all the comments are burning, your thoughts are burning. They are burning with the fire of the reply. There is anger, and there is ignorance, there is hatred, and as long as the fire finds flammable comments of others upon which it can feed, so long will it burn, and there will be birth of new threads and the death of thread locks, decay of topics, griefers, lamentations, suffering, despair, and ragequits.
> 
> You must divest yourself of passion and become free of the need to comment and to explain to people why they are wrong. Only the will be delivered from the tyranny of the reply and attain the blessed state of Nirvana.
> 
> Otherwise, you are doomed to return again and again. Remember- all new commenters are just old commenters reborn. Such is the eternal wheel.




Gladius Dei super terram, cito cum comment!


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Everything, O Parmandur, is burning.
> 
> The threads are burning, all the comments are burning, your thoughts are burning. They are burning with the fire of the reply. There is anger, and there is ignorance, there is hatred, and as long as the fire finds flammable comments of others upon which it can feed, so long will it burn, and there will be birth of new threads and the death of thread locks, decay of topics, griefers, lamentations, suffering, despair, and ragequits.
> 
> You must divest yourself of passion and become free of the need to comment and to explain to people why they are wrong. Only the will be delivered from the tyranny of the reply and attain the blessed state of Nirvana.
> 
> Otherwise, you are doomed to return again and again. Remember- all new commenters are just old commenters reborn. Such is the eternal wheel.



Buuuut Iiiiiiim BooOoOOOOOOOoooreeed...


----------



## Parmandur

Though I have learned the value of putting people on break and walking away.


----------



## CleverNickName

I have a terrible habit of going back and editing my posts long after people have read them.  I sure wish my ADHD brain would get all the words out at once, and in the correct order, the first time around.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Though I have learned the value of putting people on break and walking away.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I have a terrible habit of going back and editing my posts long after people have read them.  I sure wish my ADHD brain would get all the words out at once, and in the correct order, the first time around.



I wish I could type.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I have a terrible habit of going back and editing my posts long after people have read them.  I sure wish my ADHD brain would get all the words out at once, and in the correct order, the first time around.




There is only one thing a writer can write about: what is in front of his senses at the moment of writing. I am a recording instrument. I do not presume to impose “story,” “plot,” or “continuity.” Insofar as I succeed in the direct recording of certain areas of psychic process I may have limited function, but I am not an entertainer. I am not your monkey, and I am not your bard.

You shouldn't re-write, CleverNickName. You can't rewrite, because to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words, is a betrayal of the moment of writing, of creation, and it's a sin, Clever, it's a sin and an abomination just the same as any New Zealand pizza.


----------



## payn




----------



## dragoner

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is only one thing a writer can write about: what is in front of his senses at the moment of writing. I am a recording instrument. I do not presume to impose “story,” “plot,” or “continuity.” Insofar as I succeed in the direct recording of certain areas of psychic process I may have limited function, but I am not an entertainer. I am not your monkey, and I am not your bard.
> 
> You shouldn't re-write, CleverNickName. You can't rewrite, because to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words, is a betrayal of the moment of writing, of creation, and it's a sin, Clever, it's a sin and an abomination just the same as any New Zealand pizza.



I think some junky wizard has been stepping on my spell ingredients!


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is only one thing a writer can write about: what is in front of his senses at the moment of writing. I am a recording instrument. I do not presume to impose “story,” “plot,” or “continuity.” Insofar as I succeed in the direct recording of certain areas of psychic process I may have limited function, but I am not an entertainer. I am not your monkey, and I am not your bard.
> 
> You shouldn't re-write, CleverNickName. You can't rewrite, because to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words, is a betrayal of the moment of writing, of creation, and it's a sin, Clever, it's a sin and an abomination just the same as any New Zealand pizza.




Why do you hate us so much?  (Triple checks spelling and sentence structure so that he doesn't need to rewrite this one like all of the others).


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is only one thing a writer can write about: what is in front of his senses at the moment of writing. I am a recording instrument. I do not presume to impose “story,” “plot,” or “continuity.” Insofar as I succeed in the direct recording of certain areas of psychic process I may have limited function, but I am not an entertainer. I am not your monkey, and I am not your bard.
> 
> You shouldn't re-write, CleverNickName. You can't rewrite, because to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words, is a betrayal of the moment of writing, of creation, and it's a sin, Clever, it's a sin and an abomination just the same as any New Zealand pizza.



I agree completely.

EDIT:  I mean, not completely.

EDIT:  I mean, I somewhat agree, but mostly I wanted to just comment so that I could edit this post a handful of times as a joke.  But you pulled a wild-card and posted about pizza, and now I feel like I need to make a pizza joke in here somewhere.  So give me a minute to find one.

EDIT:  This is the happiest dog.




EDIT: but this meme is much funnier.  I wonder where this picture was taken?




EDIT:  Okay, here we go.  Here's the joke, sorry it took me so long to find it.

Snarf IRL




EDIT:  Okay I think I'm done now.

EDIT:  _Dammit, except for that spelling error.  _Okay, fixed.  Moving on.


----------



## J.Quondam

I'd save a lot of time in life if I didn't write and re-rewrite and re-rewrite multi-page essays as responses in "serious" threads, only to delete the whole mess. 
Lame jokes are much quicker & easier.


----------



## J.Quondam

Also I'm certain that some folks around here must type at 500 WPM. Or they're bots.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Why do you hate us so much?  (Triple checks spelling and sentence structure so that he doesn't need to rewrite this one like all of the others).




You cannot look for a rational explanation; hate is never the means to any practical end; it is merely the precursor and means to more hate. 

Like Santa, I have a list and I'm checking it twice, and I'm going to find out who's been nice and who's a New Zealand-pizza eating, bard-playing, elf-lovin', nogoodnik. And this list is always growing- like the universe, my capacity for hate (or, at best, cold indifference) is infinite.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Also I'm certain that some folks around here must type at 500 WPM. Or they're bots.




I'm sorry, J.Quondam, I'm afraid I can't do that.


----------



## Parmandur

J.Quondam said:


> Also I'm certain that some folks around here must type at 500 WPM. Or they're bots.



I'm a crazy fast typer, even with my thumbs...


----------



## Mad_Jack

J.Quondam said:


> Also I'm certain that some folks around here must type at 500 WPM. Or they're bots.



500 words per month? Sounds about right.


----------



## prabe

Mad_Jack said:


> 500 words per month? Sounds about right.



Does it count if it's the same handful of words posted 500 times in a month?


----------



## darjr

Y’all just avoiding responsibilities instead a postin where ya otta.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Y’all just avoiding responsibilities instead a postin where ya otta.




Naw. Wee Jas avoiding posting where we shan't.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Y’all just avoiding responsibilities instead a postin where ya otta.



Once more unto the breach...?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Everything, O Parmandur, is burning.
> 
> The threads are burning, all the comments are burning, your thoughts are burning. They are burning with the fire of the reply. There is anger, and there is ignorance, there is hatred, and as long as the fire finds flammable comments of others upon which it can feed, so long will it burn, and there will be birth of new threads and the death of thread locks, decay of topics, griefers, lamentations, suffering, despair, and ragequits.
> 
> You must divest yourself of passion and become free of the need to comment and to explain to people why they are wrong. Only then will you be delivered from the tyranny of the reply and attain the blessed state of Nirvana.
> 
> Otherwise, you are doomed to return again and again. Remember- all new commenters are just old commenters reborn. Such is the eternal wheel.



We are all mere warriors of the flame.





__





						Flame Warriors Home
					





					www.flamewarriorsguide.com


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Also I'm certain that some folks around here must type at 500 WPM. Or they're bots.



Not me. I'm 3 AIs in an overcoat.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> I have a terrible habit of going back and editing my posts long after people have read them.  I sure wish my ADHD brain would get all the words out at once, and in the correct order, the first time around.



I relate to this so much it hurts. I have both ADHD and Autism, so I have a hard time explaining what I want to say, and I have a hard time doing it in a way that is coherent and together.

I always feel the need to edit my posts to make them say what I wanted to say better than I wrote it the first time, but I avoid doing it that often for things besides small typos and wording choices because otherwise it would feel like I'm changing my viewpoint and purposefully deceiving/confusing people about what I was saying (or trying to say), even if I'm just trying to clarify my position.

It's hard to balance trying to properly communicate with others and saying what I wanted to say and having to damage-control how much I edit my posts to avoid looking like I'm posting in bad-faith. And it sucks to know that it's often not other people's fault for miscommunications between me and them, it's just almost impossible for me to say exactly what I want to say the first time I say it.

Ugh, even this post about how hard it is to post what I want to say is coming out wrong. If I had more time, I would have written a smaller post.


----------



## RealAlHazred

A look at the preview of this product leads me to believe it will be filled with stereotypes and fanservice (despite the pastors endorsing it) and not historically-interesting character options and perspectives.

I didn't want to post that in the thread because I don't think anybody cared to hear that. That said, this is a thread for dumping exactly those thoughts, right...


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> A look at the preview of this product leads me to believe it will be filled with stereotypes and fanservice (despite the pastors endorsing it) and not historically-interesting character options and perspectives.



Sounds like Theros.  
(but without the pastor endorsements)


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

There are a few posters on this site (one in particular that I have in mind) that post huge paragraphs of text, with no breaks or emphases in them (like how people bolden or italicize certain parts their posts to express the most important/key parts of it). 

I don't want to be rude and call them out, but it's very hard for my ADHD brain to concentrate on reading those posts. My brain just automatically disengages and _refuses _to try and read long, meandering, monotonous posts like that. 

Sometimes it's just easy to avoid posts/threads with a lot of that style of post, but when people are responding directly to me in that style (especially in my own threads), it's especially frustrating. It's not really anyone's fault, but my brain just can't easily engage with posts like that. 

/rant


----------



## Mad_Jack

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> A look at the preview of this product leads me to believe it will be filled with stereotypes and fanservice (despite the pastors endorsing it) and not historically-interesting character options and perspectives.
> 
> I didn't want to post that in the thread because I don't think anybody cared to hear that. That said, this is a thread for dumping exactly those thoughts, right...




 You could be right about that... I saw the comments about the Spartans. Didn't bother to look at the KS myself, but it's definitely one of those projects that's just not going to be able to please anyone in the end.


----------



## J.Quondam

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> A look at the preview of this product leads me to believe it will be filled with stereotypes and fanservice (despite the pastors endorsing it) and not historically-interesting character options and perspectives.




Aw jeez... What did NuTSR do _this _time??

Wait wut?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Well, there_ are_ a few things that can't be blamed on nuTSR - global warming, Kanye West, condiments as pizza toppings, etc... Admittedly, not many but still... lol.


----------



## J.Quondam

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, there_ are_ a few things that can't be blamed on nuTSR - global warming, Kanye West, condiments as pizza toppings, etc... Admittedly, not many but still... lol.



You know.... Has anyone ever actually seen Kanye West and Justin LaNasa in the same place, at the same time?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> You know.... Has anyone ever actually seen Kanye West and Justin LaNasa in the same place, at the same time?




What is this? Are people besmirching the good name of YE?

People dare to take Kanye's name in vain? Well, present your face to me such that I might smack his name from your mouth. That's right, Kanye is the Snarf Zagyg of hip hop, the Nic Cage of the mic.








And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and frumious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy Yeezus. And you will know I am Snarf when I lay my vengeance upon you!


----------



## J.Quondam

Hey, man, I'm just asking questions. It would be irresponsible not to speculate.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

If the Bible is now a 5e setting, can I play Yeezus?


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> If the Bible is now a 5e setting, can I play Yeezus?




If you could bring yourself to look on the bright side, you could be Brian.


----------



## Cadence

If today has taught me anything, you only care about 6' tall 20 strength halflings because you are a tyrant.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> If you could bring yourself to look on the bright side, you could be Brian.


----------



## Smackpixi

Gradine said:


> The proper ranking is Sisco > Picard > Janeway > Kirk




I mean, that’s just there for bait, I know.  But it’s a weird ranking to me, prior to reading forums wherein such things are discussed, i went 2 decades safe in the knowledge that everyone agreed that DS9 was pretty much unwatchable.  I knew I was an outlier in my Voyager preference, but to discover that anyone watched DS9 for reasons other than “only ST I can find on tv” still is hard for me to understand.


----------



## payn

Smackpixi said:


> I mean, that’s just there for bait, I know.  But it’s a weird ranking to me, prior to reading forums wherein such things are discussed, i went 2 decades safe in the knowledge that everyone agreed that DS9 was pretty much unwatchable.  I knew I was an outlier in my Voyager preference, but to discover that anyone watched DS9 for reasons other than “only ST I can find on tv” still is hard for me to understand.


----------



## billd91

Smackpixi said:


> I mean, that’s just there for bait, I know.  But it’s a weird ranking to me, prior to reading forums wherein such things are discussed, i went 2 decades safe in the knowledge that everyone agreed that DS9 was pretty much unwatchable.  I knew I was an outlier in my Voyager preference, but to discover that anyone watched DS9 for reasons other than “only ST I can find on tv” still is hard for me to understand.



Oh, good grief, no. DS9 is definitely the #2 Trek behind TOS. There‘s no real comparison.
If the 2nd season of Discovery is any indication, though, Strange New Worlds could have some serious mojo. I’m really looking forward to it.


----------



## CleverNickName

Capt. Benjamin "Space Jesus" Sisko > Capt. Jean-Luc "How Did The Studio Afford Me" Picard > Capt. Kathryn "I Don't Have Time For Your Nonsense" Janeway >> Capt. James "The T stands for Turgid" Kirk


----------



## darjr

This is the pizza thing again?


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> This is the pizza thing again?



SHOCKINGLY THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ON FICTIONAL COMMANDING OFFICERS ALSO HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ON PIZZA TOPPINGS


----------



## darjr

_places hand in shock tank_
_discovers it’s nothing hut tepid tap water_


----------



## Cadence

<Expletives at poster> <Things that would identify the thread if I put them here>


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I've only ever seen one episode of Star Trek. I liked Data. Didn't really like anything else.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Capt. Benjamin "Space Jesus" Sisko > Capt. Jean-Luc "How Did The Studio Afford Me" Picard > Capt. Kathryn "I Don't Have Time For Your Nonsense" Janeway >> Capt. James "The T stands for Turgid" Kirk




I can't even understand the takes anymore. Is this even English?

_Meanwhile, in other news, Modiphus is proud to announce a new Campaign Setting for STAR TREK. That's right, set your phasers to BIBLE!





_


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I can't even understand the takes anymore. Is this even English?
> 
> _Meanwhile, in other news, Modiphus is proud to announce a new Campaign Setting for STAR TREK. That's right, set your phasers to BIBLE!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _



The only good thing Kirk has that none of the other commanding officers have is that he's had Harlan "naughty word who Wrote like a Dream" Ellison's prose fall out of his mouth.

But I'm a Star Trek apostate, and my opinions related to Star Trek should plausibly be disregarded.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> The only good thing Kirk has that none of the other commanding officers have is that he's had Harlan "naughty word who Wrote like a Dream" Ellison's prose fall out of his mouth.
> 
> But I'm a Star Trek apostate, and my opinions related to Star Trek should plausibly be disregarded.



My biggest celebrity encounter was having cheese steaks In Philly with the guy I worked for at a convention, Harlan Ellison, and Julie Schwartz.  Ellison told stories of his time with the Stones and I don't remember what, but asked me something that made me feel like an idiot.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> The only good thing Kirk has that none of the other commanding officers have is that he's had Harlan "naughty word who Wrote like a Dream" Ellison's prose fall out of his mouth.
> 
> But I'm a Star Trek apostate, and my opinions related to Star Trek should plausibly be disregarded.




That‘s okay. Based upon the demonstrable Star Trek illiteracy demonstrated by the other people making rankings, you’re in plentiful company.

I can‘t wait to see someone finally just come out with it-

The best Star Trek Captain? Why, it was a canned pasta on a microwave pizza. Compelling! And it defeated the Borg, too, because even they know better than to assimilate a New Zealand pizza.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That‘s okay. Based upon the demonstrable Star Trek illiteracy demonstrated by the other people making rankings, you’re in plentiful company.
> 
> I can‘t wait to see someone finally just come out with it-
> 
> The best Star Trek Captain? Why, it was a canned pasta on a microwave pizza. Compelling! And it defeated the Borg, too, because even they know better than to assimilate a New Zealand pizza.


----------



## Galandris

prabe said:


> SHOCKINGLY THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ON FICTIONAL COMMANDING OFFICERS ALSO HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ON PIZZA TOPPINGS




I don't have "opinions" on pizza toppings. Pineapple is demonstratively, objectively and irrefutably bad. That's _fact_.


----------



## Smackpixi

I once had Brett Easton Ellis dedicate a copy of American Psycho ”to the Hype”.  it was a small signing, I had time to explain, he said he knew what I was talking about, he did not, but it was fun.


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> This is the pizza thing again?



PSA: "turgid" is not a pizza topping. Not even in New Zealand.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Capt. Benjamin "Space Jesus" Sisko > Capt. Jean-Luc "How Did The Studio Afford Me" Picard > Capt. Kathryn "I Don't Have Time For Your Nonsense" Janeway >> Capt. James "The T stands for Turgid" Kirk



I don't think that I'd put Katherine "I Should Have Spaced Everyone For Mutiny" "Ramming Speed!" Janeway ahead of any of the other captains.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> PSA: "turgid" is not a pizza topping. Not even in New Zealand.




Be careful. The fictional people of New Zealand have done worse than place adjectives on pizza.

…they might consider your post a challenge.


----------



## payn

What type of pizza were the Captains?

Kirk - Sausage and Pepperoni with healthy shake of crushed red pepper
Picard - Tuscan Chicken
Sisco - Cajun shrimp and andouille Sausage
Janeway - Chicken and roma tomato on white sauce but sauerkraut for some reason
Archer - Cheese pizza


----------



## Cadence

Is there any way to fit Brisco County Jr. in as Anthony Stark's father or grandfather?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Is there any way to fit Brisco County Jr. in as Anthony Stark's father or grandfather?



I always figured Brisco County Jr. had a grandson who ended up working at S-mart ...


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> I always figured Brisco County Jr. had a grandson who ended up working at S-mart ...



I was thinking about the psionics thread and then about futurists, and both Brisco Jr. and the Starks were that.  And it felt a little like some of the snark and vibe might fit a little.   And mostly there's an Avengers/Old West Kang story in the comics and I want one in the movies with IM and Brisco.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I was thinking about the psionics thread and then about futurists, and both Brisco Jr. and the Starks were that.  And it felt a little like some of the snark and vibe might fit a little.   And mostly there's an Avengers/Old West Kang story in the comics and I want one in the movies with IM and Brisco.



That's fair. Cross-connecting fictions is something fans do.


----------



## Cadence

Moving on to step 2...

A: "Man, I hate how restricted classes are.  I like the Wizard, but I want it to be divine magic, and to use swords, and buff my allies." 

B: "So, a Paladin?"

A: "No, I want to be a Wizard.  Why can't those be Wizardy things. Why do Wizards have to be arcane, and not great with weapons and armor stuff.  It's really pigeon-holing and confining."

(Not really what I think is mostly happening in step 1, but it sometimes feels that way at the edges).


----------



## Parmandur

Boy, this is one controversial reprint compilation.


----------



## darjr

Yea, I mean it’s in a separate book instead of errata so can be ignored/banned if you really want. But then we get “why do I have to buy a gift set?!” You don’t have too? Just wait?


----------



## Cadence

I don't understand NFTs, I don't particularly care to understand NFTs, but if there was an NFT for that mod post, I'd bid at least something.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Yea, I mean it’s in a separate book instead of errata so can be ignored/banned if you really want. But then we get “why do I have to buy a gift set?!” You don’t have too?* Just wait?*




It might have actually been a critical failure on my "patience" saving throw.  I didn't think the DM was using those, but here we are.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Moving on to step 2...
> 
> A: "Man, I hate how restricted classes are.  I like the Wizard, but I want it to be divine magic, and to use swords, and buff my allies."
> 
> B: "So, a Paladin?"
> 
> A: "No, I want to be a Wizard.  Why can't those be Wizardy things. Why do Wizards have to be arcane, and not great with weapons and armor stuff.  It's really pigeon-holing and confining."
> 
> (Not really what I think is mostly happening in step 1, but it sometimes feels that way at the edges).



Some people get really hung up on names. Play a Paladin or Cleric. Call yourself a Wizard.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> Some people get really hung up on names. Play a Paladin or Cleric. Call yourself a Wizard.



Or roll up a Sorcerer, and just call yourself a Psion.  _Nobody will notice a difference, I promise._


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Or roll up a Sorcerer, and just call yourself a Psion.  _Nobody will notice a difference, I promise._



6'6" tall 200 lbs.  Halfling "Psion" Sorcerer with a 20 STR, thank you very much!


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> 6'6" tall 200 lbs.  Halfling "Psion" Sorcerer with a 20 STR, thank you very much!



"I'm a Thief!"
"But you're just a Fighter who walks up to people, hits them with a 2-handed sword, then takes their stuff."
"That's what stealing is, isn't it?"


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Some people get really hung up on names.




 I like to poke those people with a stick.


----------



## CleverNickName

Seriously, you can make a psion using only the Core Rulebooks.



Spoiler: Zaxlaq, the Psion



*RACE*
The character's race is less important, but you'll want to go with something that has a bonus to mental stats...preferably Charisma or Intelligence.  I would go with Tiefling, but literally any other race will work.   Whichever race you choose, be sure to describe him as being completely bald, with gray skin and tattoos on his scalp.  _That's important._

*CLASS:*
For his class: choose Sorcerer, and the Draconic bloodline.  Choose your favorite color of dragon, I usually go with gold because fire is awesome.  But--and this is important!--at any place on your character sheet where you would normally write "dragon" or "draconic," write "psychic" instead and never explain it further.  The more you try to explain, the less mysterious (and more controversial) your psion becomes.

(Obviously, if your DM allows you to use non-Core rules, go with Aberrant Mind instead.  But not all DMs do, and that's perfectly fine--it won't affect your build at all.)

*SPELLS:*
The spells are what make the sorc--I mean, _psion,_ so pick the following at 1st level:  _firebolt, mage hand, message, _and _mending _for your cantrips, and _burning hands _and _shield _for your 1st level spells.  This will give you a nice, well rounded head-start on becoming any of the famous psion flavors (pyrokinetic, telekinetic, etc.)  As you gain levels, choose spells that shape your character in the preferred direction.  Like, if you want to become more of a pyrokinetic, choose fire-based spells like _fireball _and _scorching ray._  If you want to go more of a telekinetic route, choose _levitate, fly, telekinesis, _and so forth.

But whatever you do:  _do not ever call them spells.  _Not even once.  This is non-negotiable, you must always call them "powers."  You might want to invest in a PDF editor so that you can change the words on your character sheet.  This is a huge sticking point that will cause arguments to no end, so whatever you do: train yourself to never say the word "spell."  They are POWERS.  Those aren't spell levels, they are POWER levels.  That isn't a metamagic ability, it is a metaPOWER ability.  You'll get the hang of it.  And with you constantly correcting them at the table, the rest of the players will too.

For your spell _power _focus, select the Orb but describe it as a rough-hewn mineral crystal.

*FINISHING TOUCHES:*
Now, you need to ask your DM if you can use variant rules in their campaign.  Most will say 'yes' to feats and multiclassing, so while the door is open ask for Spell Points.  If the DM already uses the Spell Points variant, insist on using the standard spell-slot version instead.   _This is important too,_ because as we all know, psions must use different mechanics for some reason.  Be prepared to die on this hill.

And remember:  they must never be called _Spell _points.  You must call them POWER points, even if that risks confusion with Microsoft products.

When you select your starting equipment, be sure to describe your clothing as being made from a shimmery, unidentifiable fabric.  And when you select your trinket, choose a small iron circlet with antennae, or maybe a symbol in the shape of an eye.

Your name must be at least 6 characters long, and must use the letters X, Q, and/or Z.  Like Qelznix, or Zaxlaq.




 


_Seriously:  One of these is a sorcerer, and the other is a psion.  
Can you spot the difference?  
Neither can anyone else at the table._



And there you have it.  One psion, made entirely from Core Rulebook sources.


----------



## darjr

So…. A high profile Hasbro licensed RPG product has a PDF? For free no less? For the exact book? While the hardcover is in PDF?

Tell me how Hasbro runs WotC? Again?


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> So…. A high profile Hasbro licensed RPG product has a PDF? For free no less? For the exact book? While the hardcover is in PDF?
> 
> Tell me how Hasbro runs WotC? Again?



It's licensed, not from Hasbro directly.

It could be that this book isn't really bound for FLGS in any volume, which WotC is dedicated to supporting.


----------



## Parmandur

Sorry, forgot which thread I was in. So, eggs and avocado on pizza, amirite?


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> It's licensed, not from Hasbro directly.
> 
> It could be that this book isn't really bound for FLGS in any volume, which WotC is dedicated to supporting.



How dare you make good points!


Still if was licensed from WotC I’d bet a PDF wouldn’t be made available. Or at least wouldn’t have a few years ago.

Please ignore my convolutions.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Sorry, forgot which thread I was in. So, eggs and avocado on pizza, amirite?



The Denver Omelette slice at the place I worked for was pretty good with the eggs.  Not a fan of avacado though.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> The Denver Omelette slice at the place I worked for was pretty good with the eggs.  Not a fan of avacado though.



It's a finicky fruit, need to eat it at just the right time.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Sorry, forgot which thread I was in. So, eggs and avocado on pizza, amirite?



They need a green puke like option...


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> They need a green puke like option...



Honestly, I was going for a mild option, nothing too crazy, I've actually seen that one around

If I wanted to be outré but still be something I would eat: lamb and figs.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Honestly, I was going for a mild option, nothing too crazy, I've actually seen that one around
> 
> If I wanted to be outré but still be something I would eat: lamb and figs.




The Mediterranean!

(You have to say it in _exactly_ same way when you unveil the pizza as you would say, "The Aristocrats!" .... RIP Bob Saget.)


----------



## Malmuria

technically everyone is allergic to the sun.  It's why we use sunscreen.


----------



## J.Quondam

Insurers agree: the worst pre-existing condition is being alive.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Insurers agree: the worst pre-existing condition is being alive.




It beats the alternative ... you know, living in NEW JERSEY.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It beats the alternative ... you know, living in NEW JERSEY.




'm not sure I'm allowed to laugh at the prospect of living in New Jersey or not.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> As someone in living Texas, I'm not sure I'm allowed to laugh at the prospect of living in New Jersey or not.




It's like the SATs.

Pizza Toppings :: New Zealand

American States :: New Jersey


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> Moving on to step 2...
> 
> A: "Man, I hate how restricted classes are.  I like the Wizard, but I want it to be divine magic, and to use swords, and buff my allies."
> 
> B: "So, a Paladin?"
> 
> A: "No, I want to be a Wizard.  Why can't those be Wizardy things. Why do Wizards have to be arcane, and not great with weapons and armor stuff.  It's really pigeon-holing and confining."
> 
> (Not really what I think is mostly happening in step 1, but it sometimes feels that way at the edges).



Arcana Cleric with Booming Blade, here I come!


----------



## Cadence

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Arcana Cleric with Booming Blade, here I come!



Why doesn't anyone understand!?!! ::sobs:::. I said Wizard!!!


----------



## darjr

OK.

The time has come where I need a JavaScript extension to chrome to warn me when I’m either NOT posting to this thread or when I AM!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> OK.
> 
> The time has come where I need a JavaScript extension to chrome to warn me when I’m either NOT posting to this thread or when I AM!




I think we need a new thread to for when we want to post to this thread, but really shouldn't.


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> OK.
> 
> The time has come where I need a JavaScript extension to chrome to warn me when I’m either NOT posting to this thread or when I AM!


----------



## BookTenTiger

There should be an award that pops up when someone makes the same exact point for the 100th time across threads.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> There should be an award that pops up when someone makes the same exact point for the 100th time across threads.




YES!

I needed a new goal….


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> As someone in living Texas, I'm not sure I'm allowed to laugh at the prospect of living in New Jersey or not.



From the mighty Thor #356, where Hercules "recounts" a battle with Thor.


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> There should be an award that pops up when someone makes the same exact point for the 100th time across threads, *except about pizza or New Zealand.*



FTFY


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Sounds like Theros.
> (but without the pastor endorsements)



Listen, while I'm not running a MtG-based D&D campaign, Theros actually still had plenty of material I can use. The stereotypes that exist, existed in the MtG setting previously, and were just ported into the setting book -- not that that's _good_, per se, but I can understand why it happens that way. But it still has good material beyond the stereotypes and fanservice.

The book I was posting in response to has a good chance to be a train wreck, no matter which way it goes.


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> As someone in living Texas, I'm not sure I'm allowed to laugh at the prospect of living in New Jersey or not.



I've lived in New Jersey most of my life. Feel free to laugh! By any metric, New Jersey is _easily_ the absolute second-worst state to live in, in the continental US...

...Just in front of all the others...


----------



## Cadence

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I've lived in New Jersey most of my life. Feel free to laugh! By any metric, New Jersey is _easily_ the absolute second-worst state to live in, in the continental US...
> 
> ...Just in front of all the others...



Maidenhead Bagels in Lawrenceville closed, the state is dead to me.

(Hm.  Maybe if that Bakery/Restaurant across from Rutgers is still open it might be worth saving)


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> _Seriously:  One of these is a sorcerer, and the other is a psion.
> Can you spot the difference?  _




 The psion is the one in blue - blue is a much more psionic color than green. The one wearing green is clearly a druid.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Maidenhead Bagels in Lawrenceville closed, the state is dead to me.



Fair. But Sam I Am bagels in Piscataway is open, and fantastic! You could be there in under an hour! It's practically next door!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's like the SATs.
> 
> Pizza Toppings :: New Zealand
> 
> American States :: New Jersey



You're forgetting one very important thing. Florida.


----------



## Cadence

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Fair. But Sam I Am bagels in Piscataway is open, and fantastic! You could be there in under an hour! It's practically next door!



I'm in SC now. (Have been up in NJ for a few months long stays over the years).  Luckily we have a pretty good bagel place right near the center of campus here.


----------



## CleverNickName

Mad_Jack said:


> The psion is the one in blue - blue is a much more psionic color than green. The one wearing green is clearly a druid.



Nope, the green one is supposed to be a psion.  Didn't you see her antennae?  _Dead _giveaway.  All psions have extra-sensory perception, you see.  In order to properly convey that unalterable fact, fantasy artists are legally required to add extra eyes, or eye stalks, or antennae to all depictions of psions.  Otherwise it's just some kind of weird crystal-wizard.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> You're forgetting one very important thing. Florida.




Florida? America’s flaccid member is the true nursery of modern American folklore, the cracked mirror of anacondas and bath salts you cannot tear yourself away from.


----------



## darjr

Map upside down! No flaccid!


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Florida? America’s flaccid member is the true nursery of modern American folklore, the cracked mirror of anacondas and bath salts you cannot tear yourself away from.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Florida? America’s flaccid member is the true nursery of modern American folklore, the cracked mirror of anacondas and bath salts you cannot tear yourself away from.



... and that oddest of superheroes, Florida Man.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Florida? America’s flaccid member is the true nursery of modern American folklore, the cracked mirror of anacondas and bath salts you cannot tear yourself away from.



When I moved to SC decades ago, I used to hope we'd move up the rankings in various things among the states.  

I didn't expect it to come true because so many other states went backwards!


----------



## Parmandur

Ryujin said:


> ... and that oddest of superheroes, Florida Man.



Fun fact: people from Florida aren't more prone.to odd behavior than other places, but privacy  laws about police records are very loose there so that Associated Press reportes can just call around every day and get some weird stories on the record that would not be public information in other States.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Fun fact: people from Florida aren't more prone.to odd behavior than other places, but privacy  laws about police records are very loose there so that Associated Press reportes can just call around every day and get some weird stories on the record that would not be public information in other States.



I've seen their governor and surgeon general on the news though...  Maybe a bit more than average?


----------



## Cadence

I really feel bad for whoever at WotC put together the UAs for those classes and had to go through the feedback...


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Mad_Jack said:


> The psion is the one in blue - blue is a much more psionic color than green. The one wearing green is clearly a druid.



Nah, *real *psions wear purple. Blue is for those wimpy wizards.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> Fun fact: people from Florida aren't more prone.to odd behavior than other places, but privacy  laws about police records are very loose there so that Associated Press reportes can just call around every day and get some weird stories on the record that would not be public information in other States.



This is what I would tell people too, if I lived in Florida.

Floridians:  "No seriously guys, we are just like everyone else I promise!  The media just treats us differently!"

Also Floridians:


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> This is what I would tell people too, if I lived in Florida.
> "No seriously guys, we are just like everyone else I promise!  The media just treats us differently!"



Never been there, myself, but folks all over are strange enough.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> I really feel bad for whoever at WotC put together the UAs for those classes and had to go through the feedback...



Crawford can take it, I reckon.


----------



## darjr

Not garbled. Can confirm.


----------



## Smackpixi

BookTenTiger said:


> There should be an award that pops up when someone makes the same exact point for the 100th time across threads.



What’s the current count for Bards?


----------



## Parmandur

I appreciate that people aren't auming to be offensive and are mostly discussingit like adults, but the more we talk about it, this project seems like the worst idea for an RPG since maybe F.A.T.AL.

Maybe worse...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Parmandur said:


> I appreciate that people aren't auming to be offensive and are mostly discussingit like adults, but the more we talk about it, this project seems like the worst idea for an RPG since maybe F.A.T.AL.
> 
> Maybe worse...



Nah, it's just that this particular historical episode/era is charged with a lot more feeling than a lot of others. I remember when I found out the Library of Alexandria didn't actually burn down all at once due to a riot. It turned a lot of my preconceptions upside down and my emotional reaction was violent. But internalize, because I'm an introvert.

Now, turn that up to 11, and apply it to extroverts.


----------



## TwoSix

Cadence said:


> Maidenhead Bagels in Lawrenceville closed, the state is dead to me.
> 
> (Hm.  Maybe if that Bakery/Restaurant across from Rutgers is still open it might be worth saving)



As someone living in Lawrenceville, I do miss Maidenhead.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I feel like people being alarmed that "they're giving Jesus stats!" have missed a couple of previous forays into this particular mythos.

*Fantasy Wargaming: The Highest Level of All!**,* by Bruce Galloway (1981), contains its own game, which includes stats for Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God. Also, the legions of Hell, so you can do a direct comparison, powers-wise.
In 2013, Murder of Crows Publishing put out *Stats for Jesus*, which is exactly what it says on the tin. Statted for D&D 3.5E/PF1E.


----------



## Parmandur

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I feel like people being alarmed that "they're giving Jesus stats!" have missed a couple of previous forays into this particular mythos.
> 
> *Fantasy Wargaming: The Highest Level of All!**,* by Bruce Galloway (1981), contains its own game, which includes stats for Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God. Also, the legions of Hell, so you can do a direct comparison, powers-wise.
> In 2013, Murder of Crows Publishing put out *Stats for Jesus*, which is exactly what it says on the tin. Statted for D&D 3.5E/PF1E.



Less alarm, and more face palming.


----------



## darjr

Didn’t Green Ronin also?


----------



## dragoner

Man, Myth, and Magic did around the same time period, 1st century, I still have that, in fact.


----------



## darjr

I dunno. It seems OK.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Didn’t Green Ronin also?



That was an Old Testsment Bronze Age Setting, which is more admitting of fuzzy chronology and events, and heroic Sword & Sorcery action setpieces.


----------



## Cadence

What about a What If? episode where Thanos's snap isn't random, but keeps the 50% who most make life better for other living things, and gets rid of the other 50%.   Which heroes (if any) would try to undo it?  Which heroes (if any) would be among those gone?   If it wasn't 50-50 by species, what percent of humans would be left?   Would Thanos, be certain he'd be among those left himself, or would he wonder?   What about the people no one would expect who vanished/didn't?


----------



## payn

What if Thanos snapped his fingers and vanished half the toppings on New Zealand pizza? Would it be edible then?


----------



## Cadence

I get jumping in and providing a humorous or meme comment in a thread.  I don't know if that one was mostly a failure to be thought out or a failure to be funny.  Tripling down on it seemed inane though.


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> What if Thanos snapped his fingers and vanished half the toppings on New Zealand pizza? Would it be edible then?



It’s be the pepperoni and cheese and the other good stuff


----------



## Eltab

_Testament_ 3e was so awesomely handled - blending Biblical and historical and archeological material - that there is no equally-good comparison, and trying to duplicate it or update it, is practically pre-doomed to disappoint.  Alas.


----------



## dragoner

darjr said:


> It’s be the pepperoni and cheese and the other good stuff



Mushrooms and Onions. yum


----------



## Deset Gled

Eltab said:


> _Testament_ 3e was so awesomely handled - blending Biblical and historical and archeological material - that there is no equally-good comparison, and trying to duplicate it or update it, is practically pre-doomed to disappoint.  Alas.




At some point, yous guys need to consider posting in the original thread or starting a second one.


----------



## darjr

Deset Gled said:


> At some point, yous guys need to consider posting in the original thread or starting a second one.



And deprive me?!

I’m not going into that thread


----------



## Asisreo

Deset Gled said:


> At some point, yous guys need to consider posting in the original thread or starting a second one.



But then people might see our opinions.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Eltab said:


> _Testament_ 3e was so awesomely handled - blending Biblical and historical and archeological material - that there is no equally-good comparison, and trying to duplicate it or update it, is practically pre-doomed to disappoint.  Alas.



Agreed. And they were even smart enough not to stat out Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Agreed. And they were even smart enough not to stat out Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.




In New Zealand, they hunt the Flying Spaghetti Monster to use his noodly appendages as pizza toppings.


----------



## dragoner

When we moved to the US, I ate pizza with a fork and a knife, people thought I was strange, plus we had bbq sauce and chicken (this is Texas), thought it was totally normal.


----------



## Cadence

Is there a strong family tradition of being flexible about how much material is needed to have your name on it?

(Is that too snarky?)


----------



## Cadence

Would the thread better if we @'d in someone who really likes Traveller?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Would the thread better if we @'d in someone who really likes Traveller?



Somebody say Traveller?


----------



## Parmandur

I really like Traveller. More character generation like that, please, less "point buy" stuff.


----------



## Parmandur

Though for pizza toppings, it'ss all about point buy.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Somebody say Traveller?






Parmandur said:


> I really like Traveller. More character generation like that, please, less "point buy" stuff.




It has psionics right?  I bet the entire scope of the thread could be changed.  I wonder how they impact storytelling based on how they're done.

RE: Traveller.  I really like that your character can die during generation. Like a pizza rolling and finding out it's going to be made in NZ.


----------



## dragoner

What about Traveller?


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> What about Traveller?



Crappy characters always get sent to die in The Belt?


----------



## darjr

There is no pizza in Traveller.


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> Crappy characters always get sent to die in The Belt?



Beltalouda


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> Crappy characters always get sent to die in The Belt?



Possibly? 

I sort of feel there is more going on here.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> There is no pizza in Traveller.




@Snarf Zagyg   It feels like this needs a thread about the place of Pizza in Sci-fi, and what that says about Sci-Fi writers and RPG players.


----------



## billd91

darjr said:


> There is no pizza in Traveller.



Well, there is, but when in K'Kree space, whatever you do - don't order pepperoni.


----------



## Cadence

dragoner said:


> Possibly?
> 
> I sort of feel there is more going on here.




I was wondering about Psionics in it (the little I played they didn't come up).

Now I'm wondering if it really does have no pizza.


----------



## dragoner

Cadence said:


> I was wondering about Psionics in it (the little I played they didn't come up).
> 
> Now I'm wondering if it really does have no pizza.



Usually it is left out. It's space magic. For character generation, it almost always leaves the psion too weak. The official setting has some sort of uncomfortable associations with there being "psionic suppressions" in the history, mostly to rid itself of the rules. They felt like they were tacked on at the end though.


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> Usually it is left out. It's space magic. For character generation, it almost always leaves the psion too weak. The official setting has some sort of uncomfortable associations with there being "psionic suppressions" in the history, mostly to rid itself of the rules. They felt like they were tacked on at the end though.



Mostly this. They use a point system and Psion ability score. Characters usually can be telepath, telekinesis, etc.. I find it better for story telling than for actual PCs. Nobody has asked, or at least pushed the issue. If somebody ever randomly gets latent Psion ability in chargen tho, i'll roll with it.


----------



## dragoner

payn said:


> Mostly this. They use a point system and Psion ability score. Characters usually can be telepath, telekinesis, etc.. I find it better for story telling than for actual PCs. Nobody has asked, or at least pushed the issue. If somebody ever randomly gets latent Psion ability in chargen tho, i'll roll with it.



In my far too long of playing it, basically everyone has been disappointed with the result, so it's not a system I would really offer. Conversely, everyone I know from using 5e Esper Genesis, has said it is over powered. There is a middle ground somewhere I am sure. Maybe M-Space, or Ultramodern 5e, I don't know.


----------



## Eltab

Deset Gled said:


> At some point, you guys need to consider posting in the original thread or starting a second one.



I ... thought I _was_ in that primary thread.
Did I leave an extra window open on my screen, or something?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Eltab said:


> I ... thought I _was_ in that primary thread.




This is the only thread.

All other threads are an illusion, designed to anger your blood and yoke you to the wheel of argument and distract you from this, the one true thread.


----------



## BookTenTiger

At some point folks should just start posting the following phrase:

"I'm now going to make this thread all about me."

It would help clarify where the thread is going for the next 20 pages.


----------



## Eltab

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This is the only thread.
> 
> All other threads are an illusion, designed to anger your blood and yoke you to the wheel of argument and distract you from this, the one true thread.



Baloney: I've seen you in the other threads too and you are not just a ghost over there.  (Real ghosts do not eat pizza.)


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Would the thread better if we @'d in someone who really likes Traveller?



I like Traveller.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> Beltalouda



As a Traveller player from 40-ish years ago, I was happy to see that they did a pretty good job of using realistic vectored thrust in "The Expanse."


----------



## Deset Gled

Is it even possible to de-rail a thread that starts as stream-of-consciousness?


----------



## darjr

gotta do the right thing. Just gotta.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> gotta do the right thing. Just gotta.




No, you don't gotta. 

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> No, you don't gotta.
> 
> Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.



Nope. I'm the guy who can't play the evil time line cause I just can't. Not on purpose anyway.


----------



## darjr

Oh and please note I wasn't tempted. I didn't realize the evil I could do till it was all over.


----------



## Parmandur

Deset Gled said:


> Is it even possible to de-rail a thread that starts as stream-of-consciousness?



Sure, try and bring it on to a topic.

Like pizza.


----------



## darjr

I WASN'T going to vote for him!!!! 

But now??!!!

curses.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Nope. I'm the guy who can't play the evil time line cause I just can't. Not on purpose anyway.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> No, you don't gotta.
> 
> Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.



OH! 

I am dumb! 

Proof!


----------



## Cadence

How long does it take to not keep getting thrown off about who you are responding to when someone has changed their profile picture?


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> How long does it take to not keep getting thrown off about who you are responding to when someone has changed their profile picture?



It never stops.


----------



## darjr




----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> How long does it take to not keep getting thrown off about who you are responding to when someone has changed their profile picture?



It's even worse when someone changes both their profile picture and their username _*at the same time*_. I hate it when people do that.


----------



## Cadence

AcererakTriple6 said:


> It's even worse when someone changes both their profile picture and their username _*at the same time*_. I hate it when people do that.



It never occurred to me that could happen too.  Ack!


----------



## darjr

Ideas and more ideas


----------



## Deset Gled

Parmandur said:


> It never stops.



That's my excuse for not changing my avatar for 20 years, not even to increase the resolution.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> It never occurred to me that could happen too.  Ack!



Can, and has. There are plenty of posters round about who seem to have been posting under different names in prior times, and usually are with long lived forums.


----------



## darjr

Deset Gled said:


> That's my excuse for not changing my avatar for 20 years, not even to increase the resolution.



Great idea!


----------



## darjr

I think I’m having vertigo.

Vertigo?

Yea vertigo.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Can, and has. There are plenty of posters round about who seem to have been posting under different names in prior times, and usually are with long lived forums.




I used to believe in posters who posted under different names in prior times.

But that was long ago, under another name, in a prior time.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I used to believe in posters who posted under different names in prior times.
> 
> But that was long ago, under another name, in a prior time.



Your so vain, you think this post is about you, don't you...?


----------



## payn

Back on dating app. Forgot how haunted an experience it is.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Your so vain, you think this post is about you, don't you...?




I always assume every post is about Warren Beatty.


----------



## dragoner

Years ago, I registered here, and I may or may not have posted, then one day, my name was simply gone! So I had to re-register, and then I figured I should post, to keep it going, so here we are.


----------



## darjr

dragoner said:


> Years ago, I registered here, and I may or may not have posted, then one day, my name was simply gone! So I had to re-register, and then I figured I should post, to keep it going, so here we are.



Oh that was you?!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I always assume every post is about Warren Beatty.



As someone born in this century, I've got to ask . . . "who?"


----------



## J.Quondam

Deset Gled said:


> That's my excuse for not changing my avatar for 20 years, not even to increase the resolution.



_Viva la resolución!_


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I always assume every post is about Warren Beatty.



Well, that goes without saying.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> As someone born in this century, I've got to ask . . . "who?"



STOP MAKING ME FEEL OLD. And get off my lawn!


----------



## Cadence

Pull the other one.


----------



## payn

I was just told that Donkey Kong Country for SNES is _old school_.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> I was just told that Donkey Kong Country for SNES is _old school_.



...isn't it, though?  It was released in the 1990s.

We're closer to year 2050 than we are to 1990.


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> ...isn't it, though?  It was released in the 1990s.
> 
> We're closer to year 2050 than we are to 1990.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I was just told that Donkey Kong Country for SNES is _old school_.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> I was just told that Donkey Kong Country for SNES is _old school_.



If something came out when I was 8, it's old school.

Sorry, I don't make the rules.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> View attachment 149953



That's Paleolithic. Super Mario Bros. is archaic. Donkey Kon Country is old school.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> If something came out when I was 8, it's old school.
> 
> Sorry, I don't make the rules.



Another guy talking about DKC like its Pong.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Another guy talking about DKC like its Pong.



There are only two types of video games: those that require an internet connection, and Pong.  Apparently.

(sigh)  Remember Dragon Warrior?  Wizardry II, Knight of Diamonds?  Final Fantasy III?


----------



## Cadence

Pong with a rifle attachment?

It was so easy for us 2600 kids to feel sorry for the Intellivision ones.  Colecovision was harder.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> That's Paleolithic. Super Mario Bros. is archaic. Donkey Kon Country is old school.




*West of House*
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.


----------



## dragoner

DK on the Com 64 was sick, drink a 2 liter of like and play for hours.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Another guy talking about DKC like its Pong.



Hey man, I use my Bluetooth SNES controller to play Ice Climbers and Baloon Fight on the NES App, so I ain't hatin'. But I'm Old School.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> There are only two types of video games: those that require an internet connection, and Pong.  Apparently.
> 
> (sigh)  Remember Dragon Warrior?  Wizardry II, Knight of Diamonds?  Final Fantasy III?



I remember Bard's Tale and Dragon Wars, Final Fantasy I and Wizards & Warriors.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *West of House*
> You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
> There is a small mailbox here.



Punch the mailbox


----------



## CleverNickName

Oh yeah:  remember playing Demon's Forge on the school's brand-new Apple IIc?


----------



## Cadence

"Dammit, you're not going to stop me from steering this thread the same way those other four are going.  You only thought this one was different. They're evil and they deserve to be disparaged!"


----------



## CleverNickName

"The de-railings will continue until you acknowledge that I am correct.  And was misquoted earlier."


----------



## Mad_Jack

Deset Gled said:


> Is it even possible to de-rail a thread that starts as stream-of-consciousness?




I derail my stream of consciousness all the time.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> There are only two types of video games: those that require an internet connection, and Pong.  Apparently.
> 
> (sigh)  Remember Dragon Warrior?  Wizardry II, Knight of Diamonds?  Final Fantasy III?



The entire Forgotten Realms series of D&D computer games...
(... which I used to own.)


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



The real Abed should know better








						Nate Grey - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> @Snarf Zagyg   It feels like this needs a thread about the place of Pizza in Sci-fi, and what that says about Sci-Fi writers and RPG players.




It would be very difficult to assemble a pizza in zero-G/microgravity environments.  Making a pizza really calls for there to be a "down" direction.


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> It would be very difficult to assemble a pizza in zero-G/microgravity environments.  Making a pizza really calls for there to be a "down" direction.



Space Calzones, perhaps...?


----------



## J.Quondam

Umbran said:


> It would be very difficult to assemble a pizza in zero-G/microgravity environments.  Making a pizza really calls for there to be a "down" direction.



Sounds like someone needs to invent the "pizza sphere."
Space exploration cannot proceed until this fundamental human need is addressed.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Sounds like someone needs to invent the "pizza sphere."
> Space exploration cannot proceed until this fundamental human need is addressed.











						Pizza Bites
					

These Pizza Bites are so easy to make! Pizza dough id stuffed with classic pizza toppings, formed into balls, and baked for the perfect bite size pieces!




					www.spendwithpennies.com


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Sounds like someone needs to invent the "pizza sphere."
> Space exploration cannot proceed until this fundamental human need is addressed.




In the future, the driving force behind the research and development of artificial gravity will be the deployment of advanced pizza making space ships.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In the future, the driving force behind the research and development of artificial gravity will be the deployment of advanced pizza making space ships.




The future? This has been a question since time immemorial.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> No, you don't gotta.
> 
> Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.




The problem with that assertion is that evil is also dumb.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In the future, the driving force behind the research and development of artificial gravity will be the deployment of advanced pizza making space ships.



Awecessary.


----------



## Cadence

I could spend hours on this looking for something that fit great. Only a cluster of low hanging fruit instead, since I'm not sure you can even see it.


----------



## dragoner

Pizza in space:


----------



## darjr

That's not pizza!

More like pre cooked bread with pizza like spread.


----------



## dragoner

Only place worse for pizza than New Zealand.*

*This is of course, a flippant remark.


----------



## Cadence

It doesn't fit the request.  But I reread it again in looking through my list of usual suspects.  I'm a sucker for a good last line, but many fall down too much before they get there.  I think this one makes it.









						Song of Myself: 36 by Walt Whitman | Poetry Foundation
					

Stretch’d and still lies the midnight,




					www.poetryfoundation.org


----------



## Mad_Jack

Umbran said:


> It would be very difficult to assemble a pizza in zero-G/microgravity environments.  Making a pizza really calls for there to be a "down" direction.




 How about a food preparation surface that generates static electricity? 
You'd only need to generate enough to keep the ingredients from bouncing back off of it when you gently tossed them on.
Picture something like a large metal spatula, with a dial on the handle to control the amount of static. You put it down on whatever surface you're using (wall, ceiling, etc.) and hit the switch to stick it there. When you're done making your pizza, you dial down the switch to a lower level so you can detach it from the surface while still holding all the toppings in place.


----------



## darjr

I don’t think purposely generating a lot of static electricity on the space station is such a good idea.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> I don’t think purposely generating a lot of static electricity on the space station is such a good idea.



But what if you could do it locally with psionics...


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> But what if you could do it locally with psionics...


----------



## Cadence

I sometimes wonder if enworld has posters from several alternate realities posting...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I sometimes wonder if enworld has posters from several alternate realities posting...




Where I live there are a LOT of dirigibles.

What? You don’t have those???


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> I'm posting from reality 616.



Oh! I'm posting from 666.


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> How about a food preparation surface that generates static electricity?




Real physics answer?  Static electricity doesn't create a general attractive force that makes any and all things stick to it.  And, if you touch it, that static electricity transfers to you, the cook, and then will discharge into other things in the environment - like, say your electronics systems - when you touch them.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> Real physics answer?  Static electricity doesn't create a general attractive force that makes any and all things stick to it.  And, if you touch it, that static electricity transfers to you, the cook, and then will discharge into other things in the environment - like, say your electronics systems - when you touch them.



In 616 sure. but here?


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> In 616 sure. but here?




I'm not in 616.  There are superheroes in 616.

Oh, and fire itself doesn't really work as you might expect in microgravity.  No "up" means that heat doesn't rise, and gaseous products of combustion don't go up in smoke, because...  no up.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> I'm not in 616.  There are superheroes in 616.
> 
> Oh, and fire itself doesn't really work as you might expect in microgravity.  No "up" means that heat doesn't rise, and gaseous products of combustion don't go up in smoke, because...  no up.



Your universe is no fun. We have loud  explosions in space here. And a lot of screaming.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> I'm not in 616.  There are superheroes in 616.
> 
> Oh, and fire itself doesn't really work as you might expect in microgravity.  No "up" means that heat doesn't rise, and gaseous products of combustion don't go up in smoke, because...  no up.




We have super-heroes here.  You should see what this one site's moderators are able to put up with...


----------



## Cadence

<Delete something about the Bible game thread because it won't do any good for anything, and realize it leaves a blank space here.>

In other thoughts, is "leaving D&D" like giving up on a sports team about a player deal or coach, or dropping a comic book sub you've had on and off for decades because of the current storyline... in that most people will be back?


----------



## CleverNickName

I think "leaving D&D" is internet shorthand for "I'm bored with D&D, and I wish more people were bored with it too."  So I guess it's more like wanting to leave a party because you don't recognize any of the other guests, but hesitating because you don't want to be the only one leaving.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I think "leaving D&D" is internet shorthand for "I'm bored with D&D, and I wish more people were bored with it too."  So I guess it's more like wanting to leave a party because you don't recognize any of the other guests, but hesitating because you don't want to be the only one leaving.




I had a friend who ate at Garcia's Pizza every day for years in graduate school.  And one day he walked in and couldn't do it anymore.

I bet he's had Pizza again though in the years since. It's Pizza.  I postulate that D&D is the Pizza of ttRPGs.  

With the occasional NZ edition or splat books.

But of so, it will get better.  You'll all have it again.


----------



## Cadence

* or at least incessantly post in threads about it to.prove you aren't hooked.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> * or at least incessantly post in threads about it to.prove you aren't hooked.



I can quit anytime!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I can quit anytime!




Nobody likes a quitter.

-Keith Richards, probably.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Nobody likes a quitter.
> 
> -Keith Richards, probably.



Oh yea!

I’m gunna quit cold turkey. I’ll show you!

Right after GaryCon.


----------



## payn

Picked the wrong week.


----------



## CleverNickName

"Now that's entertainment!"
-Vlaad the Impaler


----------



## darjr

Asking questions in a live chat of a prerecorded live stream is something I’ve unwittingly done.


Just now.

Ope!


----------



## Smackpixi

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Where I live there are a LOT of dirigibles.
> 
> What? You don’t have those???



Who‘s to say you don’t live in Wingfoot Lake, Ohio?


----------



## Cadence

Smackpixi said:


> Who‘s to say you don’t live in Wingfoot Lake, Ohio?



How far is that from Grand Rapids one state to the north (area code 616). Could be a cross over!


----------



## Cadence

Apparently someone distributed a bunch of cursed magical grumpy pants across all the threads this weekend and tricked everyone into putting them on.


----------



## payn

looks like I picked the wrong week to quit magical grumpy pants.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> looks like I picked the wrong week to quit magical grumpy pants.



Looks like some folks got +5 full plate grumpy pants of hyperbole* too.  I was hoping those hadn't made it out of development.

*Each shipped with a box labeled "Perfectly Normal Pizza", but containing one with NZ toppings.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I think that WoTC should only publish books, that are 100% lore, that all start by saying, "NPCs are different. You, the PC, are special."

Maybe have a thread about that? Seems like a good idea!


----------



## Cadence

I'm imagining a time travel/alternate history story where Emily Post and the internet temporally overlap. (So, sci-fi?)


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> I'm imagining a time travel/alternate history story where Emily Post and the internet temporally overlap. (So, sci-fi?)




The term "netiquette" is not new.  But folks always think it is about how _others_ behave.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> The term "netiquette" is not new.  But folks always think it is about how _others_ behave.



That's how everything on the internet works isn't it? 

Oh. :-(


----------



## darjr

Hahah! Fool ya!

I haven’t worn pants in weeks!


----------



## BookTenTiger

"4e did X, and 4e failed, so X = failure" is such a logical fallacy that it makes my head spin.

Whatever else you think of 4e, there are a lot of things it did that did not lead to its failure. Cantrips, giving Clerics more to do, awesome monsters... It's silly to use 4e as a bogeyman to judge how others play the game.

"Have you, or have you not, had sympathies towards 4th Edition D&D? Just answer the question!"


----------



## billd91

BookTenTiger said:


> "Have you, or have you not, had sympathies towards 4th Edition D&D? Just answer the question!"



You're xxxdamn right, I ordered the code red!



wait, what were we talking about here?


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> "4e did X, and 4e failed, so X = failure" is such a logical fallacy that it makes my head spin.
> 
> Whatever else you think of 4e, there are a lot of things it did that did not lead to its failure. Cantrips, giving Clerics more to do, awesome monsters... It's silly to use 4e as a bogeyman to judge how others play the game.
> 
> "Have you, or have you not, had sympathies towards 4th Edition D&D? Just answer the question!"



 So, the bogeyman can be good too? Did I read that right?

::ducks for cover:::


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> "4e did X, and 4e failed, so X = failure" is such a logical fallacy that it makes my head spin.
> 
> Whatever else you think of 4e, there are a lot of things it did that did not lead to its failure. Cantrips, *giving Clerics more to do*, awesome monsters... It's silly to use 4e as a bogeyman to judge how others play the game.




Uh... there's a lot people say about 3e ... but the one thing I've never heard is, "Hey guys, the Clerics in that edition really, really sucked. Do you know what the worst, least-powerful class that had nothing to do was? The CODZILLA! Thank goodness 4e rectified those weak-azz Clerics and gave them something to do!" 

...but maybe I missed out on some of the discourse?


----------



## Cadence

But how do you eat pizza while you're driving in the city?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Uh... there's a lot people say about 3e ... but the one thing I've never heard is, "Hey guys, the Clerics in that edition really, really sucked. Do you know what the worst, least-powerful class that had nothing to do was? The CODZILLA! Thank goodness 4e rectified those weak-azz Clerics and gave them something to do!"
> 
> ...but maybe I missed out on some of the discourse?



Seems to me that a Cleric based archer was one of the most broken characters to play in 3e.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> But how do you eat pizza while you're driving in the city?




Fold it into a calzone/sandwich, and shove it in the face of the first person who asks why you're dumb enough to drive in the city?


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Fold it into a calzone/sandwich, and shove it in the face of the first person who asks why you're dumb enough to drive in the city?



What about those (like @Snarf Zagyg ) who drive stick?  Shifting hand or outside hand?


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> But how do you eat pizza while you're driving in the city?



Without pants.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> What about those (like @Snarf Zagyg ) who drive stick?  Shifting hand or outside hand?




HA! That's a trick question.

The type of people who are stuffing food into their pieholes while driving aren't looking for the thrill of the stick. No, far from it!

Those insipid souls are counting the cupholders in their minivan crossover, and measuring them to ensure that they will accommodate the girthiest big gulp possible.

No- if you go all-in for the driving experience, you care about the following -

1. Horsepower.
2. Stick.
3. B******' stereo system (not to be confused with a b******' Camaro).
4. More horses.
5. Anti-bard device, or flamethrower. But I repeat myself.
6. Something really tasteful for a design ... like flames, or the classic firebrid/phoenix, or not less than three (3!) wolves.


----------



## payn

You forgot rims. Gotta have solid rims.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> You forgot rims. Gotta have solid rims.



And suspension/tires. All the power in the world doesn't matter, if you can get that power to the road.

(If I've learnt anything from shooting motorcycle racing for more than 20 years, taking 8 racing schools, and 2 advanced street riding courses, it's that suspension and skill are more important than horsepower, for anything other than a straight line  )


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> What about those (like @Snarf Zagyg ) who drive stick?  Shifting hand or outside hand?




That'll depend if you are using American League, British traditional, or Olympic rules.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> What about those (like @Snarf Zagyg ) who drive stick?  Shifting hand or outside hand?



Have you never heard of the duties of the passenger/navigator/food handler?


----------



## CleverNickName

"See?  _See?!_  Thirty-two other people agree with me!  That means _my _point of view has the most merit!"


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Have you never heard of the duties of the passenger/navigator/food handler?



The co-pilot unwrapping and handing I'm good with.  The actual feeding I am not


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> The co-pilot unwrapping and handing I'm good with.  The actual feeding I am not



In general,* I prefer my co-pilot to stay wrapped.


_* There are exceptions, of course._


----------



## CleverNickName

Also, people get really worked up over what people think they said, and what people say they think they said, and what they think they said that they thought that someone else said that they think they thought that they said...

Clarity is on you, writer.  If there is always confusion about what you were trying to say, or if you feel that people are continually "twisting your words" or whatever, consider this:  it's not always the reader's fault.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> "See?  _See?!_  Thirty-two other people agree with me!  That means _my _point of view has the most merit!"




Thirty-two people agree with _me_?
The people have spoken! Wisdom of the crowd.

Thirty-two people agree with _you_?
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.


----------



## darjr

Haha not even you! 

Nobody likes Coldplay!


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Have you never heard of the duties of the passenger/navigator/food handler?




This person may also be the wiseacre asking why you are driving in the city...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> So, the bogeyman can be good too? Did I read that right?
> 
> ::ducks for cover:::




Depends on your preferred edition's stance on racial Alignment...

Also, pigeonholing the bad scary monster whose literal job is to be a bad scary monster into the role of a bad scary monster is badwrong.


----------



## Eltab

darjr said:


> I haven’t worn pants in weeks!



A few years ago the Scottish Open (golf tournament) ran an ad that began with half-dressed guys getting ready for work and singing (timidly) "Ain't got no pants on".  At the end of the ad they showed a dozen bagpipers in kilts proudly singing "We wear no pants!"


----------



## Cadence

_You_'re complaining about someone else doing that?

Follow-up: Now _that_'s more like it.  If we could bottle that for use in other threads!!


----------



## darjr

I stay away from gramerly because I just do not want to know


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> I stay away from gramerly because I just do not want to know


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> View attachment 150078




I prefer to terminate ... with extreme prejudice ... those who flout the rules.


----------



## darjr

I am in disguise!


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I prefer to terminate ... with extreme prejudice ... those who flout the rules.


----------



## Cadence

I accidentally did post in another thread...
------------------------------------------------

Google says it wasn't New Zealand's fault...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I accidentally did post in another thread...
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> Google says it wasn't New Zealand's fault...




But have you ever seen New Zealand and Canada in the same room at the same time?

_…I didn’t think so. _


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> But have you ever seen New Zealand and Canada in the same room at the same time?
> 
> _…I didn’t think so. _



Checkmate, atheists.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> But have you ever seen New Zealand and Canada in the same room at the same time?




 If you_ have_ seen them in the same room, you may have larger problems than your choice of pizza toppings...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> If you_ have_ seen them in the same room, you may have larger problems than your choice of pizza toppings...




Ha ha. No.

As this thread amply demonstrates, there are no problems larger than those that are caused by bad pizza toppings.

Good? Bad? I’m the man keeping New Zealand pizza toppings from your pie hole. And you’re welcome.


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> If you_ have_ seen them in the same room, you may have larger problems than your choice of pizza toppings...




Well... you have larger rooms, at least.


----------



## J.Quondam

When they toss pizza dough in New Zealand, does it spin the other direction because they're south of the equator?


----------



## CleverNickName

Great.  Just great.
Now I'm craving pizza _and_ RC Cola.

Guess I'll have to take a trip to Covington OH.


----------



## CleverNickName

Nope. 

Absolutely not.

I'm not going to go there.

I am not going to start a Joss Whedon thread in the "Geek Talk and Media" forum.  I don't care how relevant that interview was, or how many people in geek media circles are discussing it. 

It could only end badly.


----------



## Divine1943

Man, some people are really dumb.


----------



## payn

English is her second language?


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> I accidentally did post in another thread...
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> Google says it wasn't New Zealand's fault...
> 
> View attachment 150081



First time I ever had pineapple on pizza was in Lake Geneva, during a game convention.


----------



## Cadence

In which we learn that The Judge of all EN is not a fan of the advice in Luke 18:1-8.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Nope.
> 
> Absolutely not.
> 
> I'm not going to go there.
> 
> I am not going to start a Joss Whedon thread in the "Geek Talk and Media" forum.  I don't care how relevant that interview was, or how many people in geek media circles are discussing it.
> 
> It could only end badly.




!!!!!!!

I went and found the interview.

I’d give the over/under thread lock at 5 pages.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Psionics in D&D 666??? Somebody alert BADD!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> It could only end badly.




Argh. I have to get this off my chest. Has anyone in geekdom fallen so far and so fast as this guy? 

And to pop up with this? It used to be that he was know for writing the quippiest, hippest material. Now he only opens his mouth to change feet.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Argh. I have to get this off my chest. Has anyone in geekdom fallen so far and so fast as this guy?
> 
> And to pop up with this? It used to be that he was know for writing the quippiest, hippest material. Now he only opens his mouth to change feet.



I know, right?  Entitlement is a powerful drug.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Argh. I have to get this off my chest. Has anyone in geekdom fallen so far and so fast as this guy?
> 
> And to pop up with this? It used to be that he was know for writing the quippiest, hippest material. Now he only opens his mouth to change feet.



I never understood the hype. Guy been saying dumb things ever since back in _Aliens Resurrection_.


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> I know, right?  Entitlement is a powerful drug.



I don’t understand why anyone would do the interview?! Especially why anyone would publish it after reading it? What the actual?!


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> I don’t understand why anyone would do the interview?! Especially why anyone would publish it after reading it? What the actual?!



Click click click click click...


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Click click click click click...



Yea, but is this what you want out of a journalist’s career? They are getting a lot of blowback themselves.


----------



## CleverNickName

My wife and I would spend hours watching _Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog _and shotgunning episodes of _Firefly _back when we were dating, and chatting about why "Hush" was the best episode of _Buffy _ever filmed (you know it's true), and so on.

And then..._Dollhouse _happened.  There was a cracking noise in the snowy mountains above the village.

And then the divorce, and the open letter from his ex-wife.  A rumbling noise in the distance.

And then Charisma Carpenter came forward, and then others came forward as well, and the avalanche was all around us.

We haven't watched any of his stuff in years.  And that's kinda sad, considering how important his work was to our dating relationship.  All that talent, crushed and buried under an avalanche of bad publicity and even worse responses to it.  That interview was the first thing that Joss Whedon has produced in years, and all I could do was cringe and facepalm while I read it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I never understood the hype. Guy been saying dumb things ever since back in _Aliens Resurrection_.




Well, the original Whedonverse was pretty much ground zero for a lot of geek media and tropes- everything from the Big Bad to serialized story telling was solidified with Buffy. 

Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse (to a lesser extent)*, Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog, Serenity, Cabin in the Woods, and the original Avenger movies? That's one helluva resume. 

Seriously, though, Buffy and Angel were appointment TV. 

*It was a little odd at the time, but still good. It was only later that it became seriously questionable. Kind of like how Angel's treatment of Charisma Carpenter seemed odd at the time, and then later you were like, OH HELLS NO.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> All that talent, crushed and buried under an avalanche of bad publicity and even worse responses.




It seems more like all that talent, crushed under his personal faults.  All the talent in the world doesn't really matter if you can't reasonably and respectfully work with half the population of the planet.


----------



## CleverNickName

Well, I did it.  I said I wouldn't, and then I made a liar out of myself.
I think it's an important discussion to have.   I do hope folks keep it above-board, though.

I started a Joss Whedon discussion thread over *here*, in Geek Talk & Media.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse (to a lesser extent)*, Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog, Serenity, Cabin in the Woods, and the original Avenger movies? That's one helluva resume.
> Seriously, though, Buffy and Angel were appointment TV.



People say this, and I get its popular with some crowds, but its a big meh from me. Always has been. My buddy and I used to joke about how overrated Firefly was...still is.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> People say this, and I get its popular with some crowds, but its a big meh from me. Always has been. My buddy and I used to joke about how overrated Firefly was...still is.




Huh. Firefly.... overrated? 

Never heard that before.


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> Well, I did it.  I said I wouldn't, and then I made a liar out of myself.
> I think it's an important discussion to have.   I do hope folks keep it above-board, though.
> 
> I started a Joss Whedon discussion thread over *here*, in Geek Talk & Media.



I look forward to your New Yorker interview


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> I look forward to your New Yorker interview



Woops!


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> I don’t understand why anyone would do the interview?! Especially why anyone would publish it after reading it? What the actual?!



I'd publish it in a heart beat. It was his choice to put his ffot on his mouth...


----------



## Bolares

Also, he is in the spiotlight now for all the misoginy, but we shouldn't forget all the racism accusations Ray Fisher made after Justice League...


----------



## CleverNickName

Who knew that rolling your stats could be so controversial?
Oh, right.  Everyone who's rolled up a character they didn't like.


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> Who knew that rolling your stats could be so controversial?
> Oh, right.  Everyone who's rolled up a character they didn't like.



Imagine doing that in a d100...


----------



## darjr

I dint get it. Are there spoilers in the book? Is the delay really going to materially hamper your gaming, at all?


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> I accidentally did post in another thread...
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> Google says it wasn't New Zealand's fault...
> 
> View attachment 150081



We've got Insulin, peanut butter, basketball, chocolate bars with nuts..... Every now and then you end up with a powdered mashed potatoes.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> We've got Insulin, peanut butter, basketball, chocolate bars with nuts..... Every now and then you end up with a powdered mashed potatoes.



That's a mighty peculiar list of  pizza toppings. Is the basketball typically sliced or shredded?


----------



## Parmandur

You know, a pizza with a peanut sauce and chocolate toppings sounds interesting.


----------



## Parmandur

I am happy to report thst the Internet confirms the existence of chocolate peanut butter pizza in the real world.


----------



## J.Quondam

I'd honestly be more shocked to learn that chocolate peanut butter pizza _didn't_ exist.
Apparently, pizzafying anything is humanity's healthy alternative to deep-frying anything. It's written in our genes.


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> I'd honestly be more shocked to learn that chocolate peanut butter pizza _didn't_ exist.
> Apparently, pizzafying anything is humanity's healthy alternative to deep-frying anything. It's written in our genes.



"Alternative"?



Spoiler: Meanwhile, in Scotland


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> "Alternative"?
> 
> Meanwhile, in Scotland:
> View attachment 150149



Please spoiler that!
This is a family-friendly forum!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> "Alternative"?
> 
> Meanwhile, in Scotland:




Note to self- new list.

New Zealand, Atlantis, Canada, Wakanda, Lilliput, Scotland.

"What are fictional countries, Alex?"


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Note to self- new list.
> 
> New Zealand, Atlantis, Canada, Wakanda, Lilliput, Scotland.
> 
> "What are fictional countries, Alex?"



It's too late for all that, Snarf.  It has already spread to the Texas State Fair.




And the LA County Fair.




And an unidentified bar in Ohio, apparently?




It's already among us.  Spreading.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> It's too late for all that, Snarf.  It has already spread to the Texas State Fair.
> View attachment 150151
> 
> And the LA County Fair.
> View attachment 150152




State Fairs, and specifically Texas's State Fair, gets a special exemption under the superseding rule, "We can fry anything and put it on a stick."

After all, once you've fried Coca Cola and put it on a stick, there is nothing beyond your technology.


----------



## J.Quondam

Some of those fried pizza pics are giving me some, umm, _awkward_ feelings. 

I think I need a cold shower. 
brb.


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> Some of those fried pizza pics are giving me some, umm, _awkward_ feelings.
> 
> I think I need a cold shower.
> brb.



And they're always served with RANCH DRESSING as a dipping sauce.  Why?!  Did the _pizza shop_ not have any marinara, somehow?


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> It's too late for all that, Snarf.  It has already spread to the Texas State Fair.
> 
> 
> And the LA County Fair.




Those must be fake.  If those were served at a fair in the US, they'd be on a stick.


----------



## darjr

None of those were in space. And absolutely none of them required pants.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> And they're always served with RANCH DRESSING as a dipping sauce.  Why?!  Did the _pizza shop_ not have any marinara, somehow?



Ranch and Pizza is the best.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> Ranch and Pizza is the best.







Dipping pizza in ranch is fine; I've had it and it's...okay.  I guess.
But dipping pizza in spicy marinara is superior in every way.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> Dipping pizza in ranch is fine; I've had it and it's...okay.  I guess.
> But dipping pizza in spicy marinara is superior in every way.



The pizza already has marinara: that's like dipping it another pizza...bot that thereanything wrong with that!


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> The pizza already has marinara: that's like dipping it another pizza...bot that thereanything wrong with that!


----------



## Galandris

I once saw a deep-fried  caramel shortbread cake on sale in Scotland.


----------



## Gradine

When I was a kid I used to put mini chocolate chips on pepperoni pizza so they'd get a little melty and I loved it so much.

I haven't had to the fortitude to try it as an adult though.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I would like to apologize to CleverNickName for any contribution I may have had to the closing of his Oxford Comma thread. Mea culpa.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I would like to apologize to CleverNickName for any contribution I may have had to the closing of his Oxford Comma thread. Mea culpa.




You should repent, apologize, and beg for forgiveness.


----------



## payn

Look Y'all, I know you are talking about gross ass pizza, and imma let you finish, but mustard flavor soda exists.






"overview"
"If you've ever seen a child eat a corn dog, chances are you've seen someone suck on the end and slurp up mustard like it was a drink and not a condiment."


----------



## RealAlHazred

Pardon me! I see that was Cadence's thread. Well, my apologies again! I thought I was being funny, but I guess I was the guy telling a joke at a funeral. It had better be a good joke! (Spoiler: it wasn't.)


----------



## Cadence

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Pardon me! I see that was Cadence's thread. Well, my apologies again! I thought I was being funny, but I guess I was the guy telling a joke at a funeral. It had better be a good joke! (Spoiler: it wasn't.)



What?

Edit: Oh....  S'all good!

Edit:  Wait, what, you killed my thread!?!?


----------



## darjr

I’d be perfect if it wasn’t for all the wrong stuff!!!


----------



## Cadence

So, if one wanted to try to organically shift a thread about psionics in sci-fi to be about grammar, and then specifically about the importance of correct comma placement, without letting the thread creator (who runs the site) figure out what you did and boot you, how would you do it?

[I figure posting about it is a good way to be sure one (say me in particular) doesn't feel troublesome and try.  Although maybe the mod that visits this thread regularly would just think it amusing and... it feels like down this way lies darkness.  I will also try not to see how many commas and ands one can fit in a username.]


----------



## prabe

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T SEE WHAT PSIONICS HAS TO DO WITH COMAS


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T SEE WHAT PSIONICS HAS TO DO WITH COMAS



Psionics has a ton to deal with comas! When your Intelligence Score drops to 0 in D&D, you fall into a coma. Astral Projection (traditionally a psionic power) makes your body fall into a coma. Certain "psionic spells" incapacitate or otherwise knock-out their victims, like they've fallen into a mini-coma. 

Comas and psionics are closely related! 

Commas, on the other hand . . . not so much.


----------



## CleverNickName

Clearly, there, is, only, one, foolproof, solution.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Clearly, there, is, only, one, foolproof, solution.



Falling into an Oxford Coma?


----------



## CleverNickName

I, call, it, the, Shatner, Comma.  You, put, a, comma, after, every, word, in, every, sentence, no, exceptions.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> So, if one wanted to try to organically shift a thread about psionics in sci-fi to be about grammar, and then specifically about the importance of correct comma placement, without letting the thread creator (who runs the site) figure out what you did and boot you, how would you do it?




Start by talking about food.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> Start by talking about food.



Like, pizza food?


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> Like, pizza food?



Depends. I don't consider some of the pizza discussed in this thread to be food.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Deset Gled said:


> Depends. I don't consider some of the pizza discussed in this thread to be food.




 It says right there on the label, "cheese _*food *_product"...


----------



## J.Quondam

Deset Gled said:


> Depends. I don't consider some of the pizza discussed in this thread to be food.



Exactly. It doesn't become food until it's deep-fried!


----------



## Deset Gled

J.Quondam said:


> Exactly. It doesn't become food until it's deep-fried!



I find your terms acceptable.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I, call, it, the, Shatner, Comma.  You, put, a, comma, after, every, word, in, every, sentence, no, exceptions.



I think that might be the Walken Comma. The Shatner Comma is used more sparingly.

"I, call it the, Shatner, Comma." for example.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> I think that might be the Walken Comma. The Shatner Comma is used more sparingly.
> 
> "I, call it the, Shatner, Comma." for example.




Beam down the new red shirts, @Snarf Zagyg  and @CleverNickName .

(Double checks how the commas were in the orders from Star Fleet, and think through what was learned at the Academy about how to read them).


----------



## Cadence

I've just about had it with all the silly "debating" going on in some of the other threads about all kinds of ludicrous things from people who obviously haven't googled, let alone actually lived and experienced themselves.

And I don't want it to spread to this magnificent thread too.

So, some real talk right down to earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand -- There are numerous small towns and cities in Illinois and neighborhoods in Chicago, that each have better pizza -from among the three true varieties: stuffed, deep dish, and tavern style - than all of the floppy greased cardboard joints in NYC and strange topping extravaganzas in NZ combined.

It's ok if that makes you angry.  There is no rule against you being wrong.  (And if you google it, who the hell is going to listen to something called "Food & Wine Magazine" for evidence.  Wine with Pizza!?!?!  WTF.).

Oh, and fried stuff.   Funnel Cake is infinitely better than Elephant Ears.  The goal is fried surface area, not some strange obsession with holding toppings.  3D Fractals can have infinite surface area.  Those strange flat frisbee shaped things don't optimize anything.

Thank you for coming to my EN talk.


----------



## CleverNickName

Silly?  _SILLY?!_  Hey.  D&D is _serious business._


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Silly?  _SILLY?!_  Hey.  D&D is _serious business._



Just like Star Wars! Space Wizards with Laser Swords travel the stars with a Space Cowboy (and his pet Sasquatch) to rescue Space Princesses from Space Nazis. 

Two of my favorite things; Star Wars and D&D, are absolutely, completely serious!


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Silly?  _SILLY?!_  Hey.  D&D is _serious business._




It is!  But some of those "debaters" are about as serious as those who put ketchup on hot dogs   Catsup is for children not Vienna beef.

(I'm looking at you Gordon Ramsay, and in Chicago itself no less!!!  I hope you get nailed by a truck load of sport peppers!).

;-)


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> I, call, it, the, Shatner, Comma.  You, put, a, comma, after, every, word, in, every, sentence, no, exceptions.



*I, call, it, the, Shatner, Comma,.  You, put, a, comma, after, every, word, in, every, sentence, no, exceptions,.

NO, EXCEPTIONS, MEANS, NO, EXCEPTIONS,!


----------



## Cadence

"Totally consistent world and story, playable in 5e using Rule 0 to replace all other rules with Toon." 









						Porky In Wackyland
					

Porky hunts for the last of the do-dos in Wackyland.




					www.b98.tv


----------



## darjr

I completely agree, but for this one player.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> So, some real talk right down to earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand -- There are numerous small towns and cities in Illinois and neighborhoods in Chicago, that each have better pizza -from among the three true varieties: stuffed, deep dish, and tavern style - than all of the floppy greased cardboard joints in NYC and strange topping extravaganzas in NZ combined.




Yeah, well, cherrypick the best your small towns have to the worst of the cities, and you can make it sound good, sure.  

True story - back when my wife and I were pinching pennies to get by, a friend gifted us with a trip to NYC to see _Sleep No More_.  Another friend asked to meet up with us, and take us to "the best meal we could have in NYC".  Now, this guy was a lawyer, with family money, having grown up in one of the best parts of Manhattan.  We were pretty sure this guy knew the kind of places where they don't put prices on the menu, and if you have to ask, you can't afford it.  We had no idea how we were going to afford this meal.

He took us on a wonderful stroll along several blocks of Manhattan (it was a glorious late spring evening), and we ended up at a hipster hole-in-the-wall pizza joint, with... normal pizza prices.  And that pizza was truly magnificent.  Sure, some of the toppings were hipster - duck confit and goat cheese with a balsamic drizzle, for example.  But their sausage and pepperoni were savory perfection. There are a lot of places that do not understand how to do a thin, crisp crust on a pizza, but this place did, and it was a revelation, a combination of crunch and chew I had never experienced before.

So, you can stuff your parochial views on pizza in a calzone and eat it - good food is good food, and if you draw lines and borders around your acceptable pizza forms, you miss out.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Yeah, well, cherrypick the best your small towns have to the worst of the cities, and you can make it sound good, sure.
> 
> True story - back when my wife and I were pinching pennies to get by, a friend gifted us with a trip to NYC to see _Sleep No More_.  Another friend asked to meet up with us, and take us to "the best meal we could have in NYC".  Now, this guy was a lawyer, with family money, having grown up in one of the best parts of Manhattan.  We were pretty sure this guy knew the kind of places where they don't put prices on the menu, and if you have to ask, you can't afford it.  We had no idea how we were going to afford this meal.
> 
> He took us on a wonderful stroll along several blocks of Manhattan (it was a glorious late spring evening), and we ended up at a hipster hole-in-the-wall pizza joint, with... normal pizza prices.  And that pizza was truly magnificent.  Sure, some of the toppings were hipster - duck confit and goat cheese with a balsamic drizzle, for example.  But their sausage and pepperoni were savory perfection. There are a lot of places that do not understand how to do a thin, crisp crust on a pizza, but this place did, and it was a revelation, a combination of crunch and chew I had never experienced before.
> 
> So, you can stuff your parochial views on pizza in a calzone and eat it - good food is good food, and if you draw lines and borders around your acceptable pizza forms, you miss out.




I've had pizza in NYC that I was very happy with too (maybe it's partially the atmosphere of the old church it is in, but I often hit John's of Time Square when I'm up there). 

Do you remember which joint it was?  (Looking for recommendations next time we make it up there).  Was the whole crust crisp, or just the edge?

Anyway, my particular one-true wayism was about the styles of pizza the two cities mostly hold up as a thing (ole floppy vs. what ole floppy's proponents call a casserole) and not all of the pizza places in either one.


----------



## payn

All this pizza rivalry talk is starting to remind me of the Juicy Lucy battles here in the Twin Cities.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> All this pizza rivalry talk is starting to remind me of the Juicy Lucy battles here in the Twin Cities.




Oooh.  How have I never heard of this.  (Hit's google).  There's a place in NC that does them too that I might actually get by.    I'm guessing the MN places don't have pimento cheese on the menu?  I wonder if the NC one does.  I wonder if I should just try making one at home?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Oooh.  How have I never heard of this.  (Hit's google).  There's a place in NC that does them too that I might actually get by.    I'm guessing the MN places don't have pimento cheese on the menu?  I wonder if the NC one does.  I wonder if I should just try making one at home?



The originals used cheddar and American cheese, but there are tons of variety now. Blue cheese and Jalapeno, Swiss and mushroom, etc..

Here the 5-8 used cheddar and is often said to be in contention for originating the Juicy Lucy, but Matts in South MPLS also lays a claim on the honor they call the Jucy Lucy.

Pro tip; Let it sit for a min. I know, I know you want to dig in, but that cheese is like molten lava during the first bite!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I wish I had the moral certitude to know not only what was RIGHT and WRONG in all situations, but also the moral rectitude to tell everyone else what they should do about it. 

...instead, I only have it for the limited areas of Bards and Pizza Toppings, apparently.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I wish I had the moral certitude to know not only what was RIGHT and WRONG in all situations, but also the moral rectitude to tell everyone else what they should do about it.
> 
> ...instead, I only have it for the limited areas of Bards and Pizza Toppings, apparently.



And you're wrong about one of those.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> And you're wrong about one of those.




Bards make terrible pizza toppings. You can season the Bard Sausage all you want, but you can never get the Bard taste out.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Ah, so the discussion has evolved into "reply to every sentence with a paragraph."


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> Ah, so the discussion has evolved into "reply to every sentence with a paragraph."




Did you get into another thread with @Snarf Zagyg besides this one?


----------



## Bolares

okay, so it walks like a god, talks like a god, has the powers of a god, but if I just say, "that's not a god, that's a powerfull outsider with godlike powers" people will not look at me like I'm completelly nuts in a D&D setting?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Did you get into another thread with @Snarf Zagyg besides this one?


----------



## BookTenTiger

Cadence said:


> Did you get into another thread with @Snarf Zagyg besides this one?



With all love to Snarf, I find their style to be more "reply to a paragraph with a page."

Or "reply to a point with a pizza."

Or "reply to a barb with a bard."


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> Did you get into another thread with @Snarf Zagyg besides this one?



What a gratuitous shot! I love it


----------



## Bolares

BookTenTiger said:


> Or "reply to a barb with a hard."



I read "reply to a bard with a hard" and laughed out loud


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> okay, so it walks like a god, talks like a god, has the powers of a god, but if I just say, "that's not a god, that's a powerfull outsider with godlike powers" people will not look at me like I'm completelly nuts in a D&D setting?




Well, yeah. Everyone knows that_ if it walks like a god, talks like a god, has the powers of a god,_ but is really just a powerful outsider with godlike powers ... 

THEN YOU'RE TRAPPED IN AN EPISODE OF STAR TREK: TOS!


----------



## prabe

BookTenTiger said:


> Ah, so the discussion has evolved into "reply to every sentence with a paragraph."



I just *adore* getting into ... heated discussions ... where the less I say, the more they say.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, yeah. Everyone knows that_ if it walks like a god, talks like a god, has the powers of a god,_ but is really just a powerful outsider with godlike powers ...
> 
> THEN YOU'RE TRAPPED IN AN EPISODE OF STAR TREK: TOS!



THE GREAT GOOSE HATH SPOKEN


----------



## Cadence

Bolares said:


> okay, so it walks like a god, talks like a god, has the powers of a god, but if I just say, "that's not a god, that's a powerfull outsider with godlike powers" people will not look at me like I'm completelly nuts in a D&D setting?




I mean, they're already accepting halflings as the world arm wrestling champion, that no one will buy your magic items for any price,  that most non-adventurers can do fighting maneuvers/cast spells that fighters/wizards could never learn if they spent a lifetime trying, and that halflings are interesting, so it isn't that big of a leap, is it?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I just *adore* getting into ... heated discussions ... where the less I say, the more they say.




No.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Bolares said:


> I read "reply to a bard with a hard" and laughed out loud



It turns out autocorrect hates bards as much as @Snarf Zagyg !


----------



## CleverNickName

BookTenTiger said:


> With all love to Snarf, I find their style to be more "reply to a paragraph with a page."
> 
> Or "reply to a point with a pizza."



Ex_cuse me,_ but that's _my _turf.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Ex_cuse me,_ but that's _my _turf.



SOMEONE MUST CROSS THIS IDEA WITH THE END OF DR STRANGELOVE

THAT SOMEONE IS NOT ME BECAUSE DOING THAT WOULD REQUIRE SOME TALENT AND I HAVE NO TALENT


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Every time I see the thread that says, "A Stereotypical Italian Campaign," I want to go in there and post the following:

_That's-a spicy meatball!_

To date, I have successfully battled the urge. Honestly, I don't dare open that thread, because what's in there can't possibly live up to my imagination.


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> Ex_cuse me,_ but that's _my _turf.



Are we really gonna do pizza commentary gatekeeping?


----------



## darjr

Excuse me? What does Snarf need with a starship?


----------



## CleverNickName

Bolares said:


> Are we really gonna do pizza commentary gatekeeping?



Only a _true _fan of pizza would be able to make that comment.


----------



## darjr

Answer the question!?


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> Only a _true _fan of pizza would be able to make that comment.



Brazillian pizza topings vs new zelander pizza topings.... a battle for the ages... and the ER.


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Answer the question!?



Yes.


----------



## Cadence

"Here, let me change the question, ignore the clarifications, slip down the slope, and then double down by iterating steps 2 and 3."


----------



## prabe

Bolares said:


> Brazillian pizza topings vs new zelander pizza topings.... a battle for the ages... and the ER.



THE MENTAL WARD BECKONS


----------



## darjr

Oh no. This isn’t about me is it?

Oh no.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> This isn’t about me is it?




What is a six-word sentence that has never graced my internal monologue, Alex?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> THEN YOU'RE TRAPPED IN AN EPISODE OF STAR TREK: TOS!



... or ST:TNG.
... or ST: DS9.
... or ST:Voyager.
... or ST:Enterprise.
... or ST5
... or...


----------



## Cadence

So, if you had the power to remove the <some number under 12> people who most annoy you on an RPG messageboard, would others fill the void?  Would they do so by actually becoming more annoying?  Would you just notice them more?  Or would you just be mentally recalibrating to still have <some number under 12> of really annoying people around?


----------



## darjr

You’re WRONG!

Or are you?


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> You’re WRONG!
> 
> Or are you?




I was trying to think of a song or remark with "bad faith" in it.  Now I have parts of "Bad Medicine" from Bon Jovi's "New Jersey" album playing in my head.


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> You’re WRONG!
> 
> Or are you?



Clearly I am. One could say I had a nuanced opinion that can't be sumarized in "they are scamming us" or "they did everything they could to make this situation as clear as possible", but then, that person would be wrong too!


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> So, if you had the power to remove the <some number under 12> people who most annoy you on an RPG messageboard, would others fill the void?  Would they do so by actually becoming more annoying?  Would you just notice them more?  Or would you just be mentally recalibrating to still have <some number under 12> of really annoying people around?




There are different types of annoying.  They rotate.  Sometimes similar types cluster together, other times they eat their siblings like hamsters.  The net total of annoying-ness (measured in units of karens) remains generally the same, but your personal tolerance for different types will affect your overall experience.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> So, if you had the power to remove the <some number under 12> people who most annoy you on an RPG messageboard, would others fill the void?  Would they do so by actually becoming more annoying?  Would you just notice them more?  Or would you just be mentally recalibrating to still have <some number under 12> of really annoying people around?



The way I see it?  If I'm cantankerous enough to crave the power to "remove" people who "annoy me," I'm not going to stop at a dozen.  

It's not that more people will "fill the void," it's just that my tolerance for annoyance has already eroded significantly by the time I even get to that point, and it would only diminish further if I didn't have a reason to develop it.  Soon, _everyone and everything _would annoy me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> So, if you had the power to remove the <some number under 12> people who most annoy you on an RPG messageboard, would others fill the void?  Would they do so by actually becoming more annoying?  Would you just notice them more?  Or would you just be mentally recalibrating to still have <some number under 12> of really annoying people around?




1. Contempt is the soul of annoyance.

2. Nothing breeds contempt like familiarity.

3. I am most familiar with myself.

4. Therefore, the person who most annoys me on this messageboard is ... me.

5. So if I had the power to remove myself, would I then come back ... but even more annoying?


_Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to engage in the same conversations over and over again until they realize they have taken the opposite position from the one they had last year. _


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So if I had the power to remove myself, would I then come back ... but even more annoying?



Yes you would


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I was trying to think of a song or remark with "bad faith" in it.  Now I have parts of "Bad Medicine" from Bon Jovi's "New Jersey" album playing in my head.




My posts are like bad faith comments
Bad faith comments are my favorite screed
Oh, oh, oh, trolling the board with my bad faith comments
There ain't no moderator warning that I will ever heed

I ain't got a good point, but I'm still hitting these keys
Even the people that agree with me are the enemy
I got lots of good thoughts, but that isn't what I need
Because I gotta use the internet to get this bile out of me
And I'm usin' all the fallacies, count 'em one, two, three

First you hominem (That's when you take it to the man)
Then you haculum (You give a little fear and it's never enough)
And then you're ready to condemn
(That's what they get for calling you out)
Now I'm addicted 'cause someone replied to my comment

Oh, oh, oh, my posts are like bad faith comments
Bad faith comments are my favorite screed
Oh, oh, oh, trolling the board with my bad faith comments
There ain't no moderator warning that I will ever heed
Bad, bad faith comments.



_You're welcome!_


----------



## Gradine

I live on, and have barely ever left, the West Coast of the U.S, so I have no cultural pride horse in the race. But I've had multiple iterations of _what are purported to be _both Chicago style pizza and New York style pizza, and of the two one is the clearly superior meal experience and the other is a massive, unwieldy piece of incredibly thin cardboard that appears to be ashamed of having to have a crust at all.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> My posts are like bad faith comments
> Bad faith comments are my favorite screed
> Oh, oh, oh, trolling the board with my bad faith comments
> There ain't no moderator warning that I will ever heed
> 
> I ain't got a good point, but I'm still hitting these keys
> Even the people that agree with me are the enemy
> I got lots of good thoughts, but that isn't what I need
> Because I gotta use the internet to get this bile out of me
> And I'm usin' all the fallacies, count 'em one, two, three
> 
> First you hominem (That's when you take it to the man)
> Then you haculum (You give a little fear and it's never enough)
> And then you're ready to condemn
> (That's what they get for calling you out)
> Now I'm addicted 'cause someone replied to my comment
> 
> Oh, oh, oh, my posts are like bad faith comments
> Bad faith comments are my favorite screed
> Oh, oh, oh, trolling the board with my bad faith comments
> There ain't no moderator warning that I will ever heed
> Bad, bad faith comments.
> 
> 
> 
> _You're welcome!_



Lines 2 and 4 are especially gold at the start, and stanza 2 is very nice.  I am now attempting to not take the time to see if a few others seem a bit off because they are or because the version in my head is.

Can you arrange a vacation day for me to work on this?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. Contempt is the soul of annoyance.
> 
> 2. Nothing breeds contempt like familiarity.
> 
> 3. I am most familiar with myself.
> 
> 4. Therefore, the person who most annoys me on this messageboard is ... me.
> 
> 5. So if I had the power to remove myself, would I then come back ... but even more annoying?
> 
> 
> _Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to engage in the same conversations over and over again until they realize they have taken the opposite position from the one they had last year. _



Are you saying a block self feature is needed? Once you make your posts, they will no longer be available for you to see?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Yes you would




So you're saying I would rise again, like a ... vampire?


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So you're saying I would rise again, like a ... vampire?



Or a... wait, what was that other thread about.  How many days would it take?


----------



## darjr

Your contempt breeds with your familiarity? 

Don’t you need a license for that?


----------



## billd91

darjr said:


> Your contempt breeds with your familiarity?
> 
> Don’t you need a license for that?



Does that fall under animal husbandry?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Or a... wait, what was that other thread about.  How many days would it take?




I was originally going to write some variation of "And on the third day. Snarf returned to comment again."

But then I thought better of it.

Wait .... CADENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I was originally going to write some variation of "And on the third day. Snarf returned to comment again."
> 
> But then I thought better of it.
> 
> Wait .... CADENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Would anyone believe you could stay away that long?


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> So, if you had the power to remove the <some number under 12> people who most annoy you on an RPG messageboard, would others fill the void?




I can say from experience that yes, others fill the void.



Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. Contempt is the soul of annoyance.
> 
> 2. Nothing breeds contempt like familiarity.
> 
> 3. I am most familiar with myself.
> 
> 4. Therefore, the person who most annoys me on this messageboard is ... me.




And since the thing you hold most in contempt is bards, you are therefore... a bard?

Either that, or you are New Zealand pizza topping....


----------



## Bolares

ALL ABOARD THE SNARF IS A BARD TRAIN! TCHOO TCHOOO


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> And since the thing you you hold most in contempt is bards, you are therefore... a bard?
> 
> Either that, or you are New Zealand pizza topping....




.....I ..... um ....


Dang it.

I walked right into that one.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> .....I ..... um ....
> 
> 
> Dang it.
> 
> I walked right into that one.



9 out of 10 Bards agree, we hate ourselves.


----------



## Gradine

“Battle not with bards, lest ye become a bard, and if you gaze into the New Zealand Pizza, the New Zealand Pizza gazes also into you.” - Nietzsche, probably


----------



## Bolares

Gradine said:


> “Battle not with bards, lest ye become a bard, and if you gaze into the New Zealand Pizza, the New Zealand Pizza gazes also into you.” - Nietzsche, probably



I was going to say "the pizza can only gaze back if it has eyes". But then I stopped and realized... EVERY NEW ZEALAND PIZZA HAS EYES IN IT.


----------



## Malmuria

In the next stage of capital, investment will no longer be associated with return.  Kickstarter will replace the new york stock exhange.  When you support a company, you will get an NFT, proof of which you can then share on twitter.    Sharing NFTs in such a manner will become the next, and final, form of human sociality.  Plushies will still be a stretch goal, however.


----------



## Malmuria




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> In the next stage of capital, investment will no longer be associated with return.  Kickstarter will replace the new york stock exhange.  When you support a company, you will get an NFT, proof of which you can then share on twitter.    Sharing NFTs in such a manner will become the next, and final, form of human sociality.  Plushies will still be a stretch goal, however.




Formless Void, State of Confusion, January 19, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- Snarf Zagyg, a semi-sentient division of The Walt Disney Company, Inc. (NYSE: DIS), is proud to announce that Snarf Zagyg and all of his comments, threads, and occasional animated gifs, will now be moving to blockchain.

"Whenever I'm writing comments to annoy my follow RPGers, I think to myself, 'Self, how can I combine my twin loves of angering the blood of others and leveraging acronyms and concepts that I don't understand in order to monetize them?' And that's when I knew I had to move a blockchain-based solution for my comments with additional, monetized NFTs that will provide exclusive links to past comments on such diverse topics as, 'Bards- they're terrible,' and 'Bards- should they be dead or deader?'"  said Snarf Zagyg, an actual person with real thoughts and totally not the unholy Frankenstein creation that emerged when The Walt Disney Company created too many nested LLCs and SPEs and somehow, one of them became sentient and started posting on the internet.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I walked right into that one.




Sorry.  I could not resist.


----------



## CleverNickName

The thread was locked _right out of the gate?_  I've never seen that before.  It's for the best, though.  Because yes...obviously.

I work for a multinational consulting company, and our workplace badges have been doing that since 2006.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> The thread was locked _right out of the gate?_  I've never seen that before.  It's for the best, though.  Because yes...obviously.
> 
> I work for a multinational consulting company, and our workplace badges have been doing that since 2006.



I assume I should take it as a win that I am unable to tell who put up the laugh emoji


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> The thread was locked _right out of the gate?_  I've never seen that before.  It's for the best, though, because, yes...obviously.
> 
> I work for a multinational consulting company, and our workplace badges have been doing that since 2006.



I'm thinking they may be missing 2 choices - he/they and she/they - both of which are distinct from he/she/they.
Good choice to default to using a pick list, though. Helps avoid Gina Carano-inspired trolling.


----------



## CleverNickName

I'm especially curious about the ribbons.  They sound like a great way to get around language and literacy barriers.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> The thread was locked _right out of the gate?_  I've never seen that before.  It's for the best, though.  Because yes...obviously.



I'm going to take the opposite stance, actually. The news is very, very, good. A conversation about it, how it will work, how it could improved upon in the future, would have been a good thing. Sure the trolls would eventually come out of the woodworks, and the thread would get locked because nobody here can stop themselves from feeding the trolls, but I think there would've been something good that could've come out of it beyond the banning of a few more alts/sock puppets


----------



## Gradine

billd91 said:


> I'm thinking they may be missing 2 choices - he/they and she/they - both of which are distinct from he/she/they.
> Good choice to default to using a pick list, though. Helps avoid Gina Carano-inspired trolling.



Yes, but I think there was an opportunity to also include some of the more common neo-pronouns. I'm pretty sure I've seen at least xe/xir/xem in D&D books before.

Not that folx can't just wear whatever other pronoun flair they want anyway.


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> I'm going to take the opposite stance, actually. The news is very, very, good. A conversation about it, how it will work, how it could improved upon in the future, would have been a good thing. Sure the trolls would eventually come out of the woodworks, and the thread would get locked because nobody here can stop themselves from feeding the trolls, but I think there would've been something good that could've come out of it beyond the banning of a few more alts/sock puppets



Making it a + thread and vigorously enforcing feels like it would work.  But that it would need the mods to basically sitting on standby for the next few days to enforce.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Making it a + thread and vigorously enforcing feels like it would work.  But that it would need the mods to basically sitting on standby for the next few days to enforce.



I also worry that creating a (+) thread on a topic the mods wouldn't even entertain any comments on at all would seem like trying to circumvent/counteract moderation.


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> I also worry that creating a (+) thread on a topic the mods wouldn't even entertain any comments on at all would seem like trying to circumvent/counteract moderation.



Definitely. I was thinking if the original news post was a + thread.  I would certainly check with them before making my own on it!


----------



## Gradine

I mean, I'd gladly do it! But I don't want Morrus to come down and be like "what did I just say?!"


----------



## CleverNickName

Grrr.  It really bothers me when people deliberately drop the T from LGBT+.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Grrr.  It really bothers me when people deliberately drop the T from LGBT+.




Deliberately?  Ack!

----

Are the Q and + common additions now too?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Deliberately?  Ack!
> 
> ----
> 
> Are the Q and + common additions now too?



Usually deliberate, yeah.  Until you call them on it, and then it's "oh woopsie-daisy, I totally forgot, there are just _so many letters _to keep track of these days, seems like _these people_ keep adding more every week, heh heh."

But I'm close to a lot of LGBT+ people, so I might be overreacting.  It's a sensitive topic for me.

The convention at my workplace is LGBT+ for shorthand, and LGBTQIA+ for formal.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Deliberately?  Ack!
> 
> ----
> 
> Are the Q and + common additions now too?



LGBTQ+ is probably the most common; LGBT and LGBT+ are common enough that I think can be taken as sort of the same thing.

It has gotten to the point, however, that "LGB", is a deliberately anti-trans statement.


----------



## Cadence

I'm starting to worry.  That's two threads where (IMHO) I eviscerated your "logic", and you just stopped posting in them. I hope you are ok!  (Even if it means you will have comebacks in those threads soon).


----------



## prabe

I WOULDN'T WORRY

SOME PEOPLE ARE IMPERVIOUS TO LOGIC


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> I WOULDN'T WORRY
> 
> SOME PEOPLE ARE IMPERVIOUS TO LOGIC




But that's the problem!  They're acting like they're ... pervious... to it?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> But that's the problem!  They're acting like they're ... pervious... to it?



I WOULD NEVER ACCUSE ANYONE HERE OF BEING PERVY


----------



## Mad_Jack

prabe said:


> I WOULD NEVER ACCUSE ANYONE HERE OF BEING PERVY




 Clearly, you've never met me before...   

Maybe that person is off getting drunk and revaluating their life choices... (One can hope.)


----------



## prabe

Mad_Jack said:


> Clearly, you've never met me before...
> 
> Maybe that person is off getting drunk and revaluating their life choices... (One can hope.)



The small number of people from here I've interacted with elsewhere ... at a minimum are not pervy *all the time*. The people here I haven't interacted with, I wouldn't know well enough to say they're pervy at all (though one can play some percentages ...).


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> I'm starting to worry.  That's two threads where (IMHO) I eviscerated your "logic", and you just stopped posting in them. I hope you are ok!  (Even if it means you will have comebacks in those threads soon).




Well, gee, you expect people to have a positive perception of evisceration?  Do you figure the evisceration... felt good, to them?


----------



## billd91

Umbran said:


> Well, gee, you expect people to have a positive perception of evisceration?  Do you figure the evisceration... felt good, to them?



Don't be shaming anybody else's kink.


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> Well, gee, you expect people to have a positive perception of evisceration?  Do you figure the evisceration... felt good, to them?



De gustibus non est disputandum.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Don't be shaming anybody else's kink.




Don't be equating recognition that a reaction is uncommon for shaming that reaction.


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> Do you figure the evisceration... felt good, to them?



Please don't kinkshame


Edit; Ninja'd by @billd91


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Well, gee, you expect people to have a positive perception of evisceration?  Do you figure the evisceration... felt good, to them?



Can't speak for anyone else, however, I'm pretty sure that sometimes when someone assumes that they have "won" a debate with me it's because I decided that continuing was pointless, then just stopped posting.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Can't speak for anyone else, however, I'm pretty sure that sometimes when someone assumes that they have "won" a debate with me it's because I decided that continuing was pointless, then just stopped posting.



You cant just let them win!


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> You cant just let them win!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> You cant just let them win!




_When you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and only the pig gets happy. _

My decision tree is usually the following:

1. If I want to respond, I do.

2. If I need to respond, and I can just walk away, I walk away.

3. If I need to respond, and I can't just walk away, I use the ignore function until I forget why I had to respond.

4. If my blood is so angry that I already responded before I knew what I was doing because I was typing so frumiously, I take a long break and do something that makes me less angry than the internet, like watch the Season 8 finale of Dexter.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _When you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and only the pig gets happy. _
> 
> My decision tree is usually the following:
> 
> 1. If I want to respond, I do.



Me too.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> 2. If I need to respond, and I can just walk away, I walk away.



I get a bourbon.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> 3. If I need to respond, and I can't just walk away, I use the ignore function until I forget why I had to respond.



I only go there if its gotten personal.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> 4. If my blood is so angry that I already responded before I knew what I was doing because I was typing so frumiously, I take a long break and do something that makes me less angry than the internet, like watch the Season 8 finale of Dexter.



I get another bourbon. Really, it quenches every fire for me. Until half the bottle is gone, then Tom Waits gets played and the fist fights break out.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I get another bourbon. Really, it quenches every fire for me. Until half the bottle is gone, then Tom Waits gets played and the fist fights break out.




Bourbon. The solution to, and cause of, all of life's problems.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Bourbon. The solution to, and cause of, all of life's problems.



Gotta find the right balance. I like to call it the Scotsman scale. Sober, I cant understand them, with a medium to heavy buzz its like hangin with a second cousin, drunk its all over again.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Gotta find the right balance. I like to call it the Scotsman scale. Sober, I cant understand them, with a medium to heavy buzz its like hangin with a second cousin, drunk its all over again.


----------



## darjr

Sorry! Picked the wrong thread.


----------



## Retreater

It's going to be a bourbon night tonight. Like last night. And the night before that.
This isolation stuff stinks.


----------



## prabe




----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> It's going to be a bourbon night tonight. Like last night. And the night before that.
> This isolation stuff stinks.



At least there is Bourbon.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Retreater said:


> It's going to be a bourbon night tonight. Like last night. And the night before that.
> This isolation stuff stinks.


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> It's going to be a bourbon night tonight. Like last night. And the night before that.
> This isolation stuff stinks.



and yes the isolation stuff does stink. I went out for a b-day party two weeks ago and I'm still sick. I've had like 25% of a cold for almost two weeks. To say im suffering cabin fever is an understatement.


----------



## Retreater

payn said:


> and yes the isolation stuff does stink. I went out for a b-day party two weeks ago and I'm still sick. I've had like 25% of a cold for almost two weeks. To say im suffering cabin fever is an understatement.



Yeah, COVID hit our household. My wife got it at her grandmother's funeral - so not even a party or good time. I'm not sick at the moment, but we're hiding out in our separate rooms.


----------



## Ryujin

Now waiting to hear if my mother's PSW brought Covid into our house. Fun times.


----------



## Cadence

That thing where you can't tell if the person is replying to someone who blocked you, or if they just throw out non-sequitors.  And then wondering if it is even possible to have someone post in a thread you created after they blocked you.  (I know if someone blocks you in one of the ways you can still see their new thread creations, does it work the other way?)


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> That thing where you can't tell if the person is replying to someone who blocked you, or if they just throw out non-sequitors.  And then wondering if it is even possible to have someone post in a thread you created after they blocked you.  (I know if someone blocks you in one of the ways you can still see their new thread creations, does it work the other way?)



I actually find it funny to read a thread and see one sided arguments against some weird hobby horse that I have to reconstruct from context.


----------



## darjr

No I don’t think cadence was referring to your post I absolutely just quoted that they can’t see.


----------



## darjr

Gosh, why ask us? Is that a real question? It’s on the internet and easily found and read?


----------



## Cadence

Instead of a long rant tied too closely to IRL elsewhere that might involve swearing...  here's a tangent of it in this thread.  

In my state there is a big fuss about making sure all the college students have a course in the founding documents of the US and the like.  I'd be a lot more in favor of it if I was sure it would contain an appropriate section on the one from the early 1500s.









						Spanish Requirement of 1513 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Malmuria

Someone needs to set up prop bets on the 2024 edition.  Put your money where your mouth is, people.


----------



## Bolares

Malmuria said:


> Someone needs to set up prop bets on the 2024 edition.  Put your money where your mouth is, people.



My only bet is that some people will cry that the game abandoned them and that D&D is not D&D anymore.


----------



## CleverNickName

BuT iT's ThEiR 5o YeAr AnNiVeRsArY....


----------



## prabe

Bolares said:


> My only bet is that some people will cry that the game abandoned them and that D&D is not D&D anymore.



I think the probability of this approaches unity.


----------



## Bolares

prabe said:


> I think the probability of this approaches unity.



I'm not one to bet on mere possibilites


----------



## darjr

Bolares said:


> My only bet is that some people will cry that the game abandoned them and that D&D is not D&D anymore.



I just saw a video about this. The YouTuber was previously a convention coordinator and store play coordinator and had two home games. 

I thought that the new Monsters book must have really set them off. 

But then I looked and the video was two years old.


----------



## J.Quondam

prabe said:


> I think the probability of this approaches unity.



Back in my day, they just called it "one"!! 
"Unity" is for weak losers!!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> My only bet is that some people will cry that the game abandoned them and that D&D is not D&D anymore.




It's been downhill ever since THE MAN tried to tell us how to play with the Greyhawk Supplement!


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's been downhill ever since THE MAN tried to tell us how to play with the Greyhawk Supplement!




I'm pretty sure there's Moldvay or the wrong way!


----------



## Cadence

It's so hard not to type "Or good pizza vs. NZ pizza."   Why did you do this to me Snarf!?!?!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> It's so hard not to type "Or good pizza vs. NZ pizza."   Why did you do this to me Snarf!?!?!




It wasn't me. It was the Universe acting through me.

The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward smacking down New Zealand pizzas with extreme prejudice.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's been downhill ever since THE MAN tried to tell us how to play with the Greyhawk Supplement!



Sooooo, long before I was born?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Sooooo, long before I was born?




Well, yeah!

I'm pretty sure that this whole hobby has been doomed ever since that hippy, General von Verdy du Vernois, decided to get the Prussian army to go all loosey-goosey and abandon the rules in 1876.

Tell ya. Free love, free pot, free kriegsspiel. THERE MUST BE ORDER!


----------



## Cadence

Multiple speed chess (aka bughouse) is the best chess. 

No dropping pieces in to mate, and game ending on king capture or time ending seems better than ending on mate.


----------



## Bolares

Some people should keep lurking...


----------



## Cadence

That's a bit on the nose


----------



## payn

Nothing compares to you.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Nothing compares to you.




Dammit!  Stop using song lyrics! It's in my head... and now I've got a mutation of the Cranberries. Argh!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Dammit!  Stop using song lyrics! It's in my head... and now I've got a mutation of the Cranberries. Argh!




Dearly beloved
We are gathered here today
To get through this thing called "D&D"
Electric game, D&D
You can play it forever and that's a mighty long time
But I'm here to tell you there's something else...

This meta-thread

A thread of never-ending happiness
You can always talk about pizza, day or night

So when you need to talk about that New Zealand pizza topping you just ate
You know the one, the pasta straight from a can
Instead of writing about subclasses gained on first level
Write about the toppings on your mind, Cadence
'Cause in the other threads
Things are much harder than in the meta-thread
In the other threads
You're on your own

And if the other commenters try to bring you down
Go crazy (write about pizza)
Whoo


----------



## Smackpixi

Why do so many people participate in Kickstarters that are the equivalent of PBS pledge drives, but for a FOR PROFIT enterprise?

I mean I get it when it’s for some broke Bard who slept on your couch last time he played Des Moines and needs $10k for his first album, but so many times its essentially giving money to people richer than the backer for some vanity project.


----------



## payn

I need bards
I want bards
but I aint never ever gonna love bards
but dont be sad
two out of three aint bad


----------



## Bolares

Cadence said:


> Dammit!  Stop using song lyrics! It's in my head... and now I've got a mutation of the Cranberries. Argh!



DON'T TALK ABOUT SONGS HERE, OR SNARF WILL START WRITTING ONE....

Oh, I just scrolled down. To late  

Damn those bards!


----------



## darjr

Wait?!

What arch!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Wait?!
> 
> What arch!


----------



## darjr

Oh my aching arch


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



One deep cut deserves another.


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Wait?!
> 
> What arch!


----------



## darjr

Bolares said:


>



Not all of us can be good at this posting thing.


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Not all of us can be good at this posting thing.



Well... at least you try


----------



## darjr

Bolares said:


> Well... at least you try



Thank you Yolares.


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Thank you Yolares.



You're spending too much time on twitter...


----------



## payn

To die by your side, well, the pleasure, the privilege is mine.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> To die by your side, well, the pleasure, the privilege is mine.









#notjoking


----------



## darjr

And I say they are the same!
They. Are. The. Same.

And I’m not going back to fix it anyway.

It’s all the same letters in the correct amount and if it’s good enough for me it’s good enough fer y’all.


----------



## Eltab

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Dearly beloved
> We are gathered here today
> To get through this thing called "D&D"
> Electric game, D&D
> You can play it forever and that's a mighty long time
> But I'm here to tell you there's something else...
> 
> This meta-thread
> 
> A thread of never-ending happiness
> You can always talk about pizza, day or night
> 
> So when you need to talk about that New Zealand pizza topping you just ate
> You know the one, the pasta straight from a can
> Instead of writing about subclasses gained on first level
> Write about the toppings on your mind, Cadence
> 'Cause in the other threads
> Things are much harder than in the meta-thread
> In the other threads
> You're on your own
> 
> And if the other commenters try to bring you down
> Go crazy (write about pizza)
> Whoo



You don't actually hate bards, you are just trying to drive off the competition.

Search your feelings, you know this to be true.


----------



## Cadence

A matching service find for Snarf?
(aka The Genius of the Vague, by Don Marquis)

SHE came at twilight yestere'en,
        With eyes profound and sad,
    And murmured, "You must choose between
        The Shadow and the Shad!"

    "What mean you, cryptic visitor,
        Who come to me uncalled?"
    She answered, "Ned and Isidor
        And Thomas, too are bald!"

    "I know they are," I said, "but why
        Should that so sadden you?"
    She wiped a wan and wistful eye
        And smelled a sprig of rue.

    "Oh, sounds," she said, "oh, sounds and scents!
        And, oh! forgotten years"—
    Beneath her shrouding filaments
        She shed, I think, some tears.

    "But what are you," I asked of her,
        "Who waver through the gloom
    As cheerful as a sepulcher,
        As genial as a tomb?"

    "I am," she said, "the friend of Potes;
        And sometimes I'm the plague
    Who gets their gay, Parnassian goats:
        The Genius of the Vague!

    "_Vers libre,_ or straight old-fashioned rime,
        Ode, sonnet, song, ballade,
    I've saved from failure many a time
        With nonsense quaint and odd;

    "When feeling fails, or thought or trope,
        When meaning peaks and pines,
    Do not, therefore, abandon hope,
        But pull some mystic lines—

    "Oh, seas and shores," she said, "and dreams,
        Echo and Afterwhile!
    And souls and sorrows, gulls and gleams!"—
        She smiled a pensive smile—

    "Oh, you must choose between," she said,
        "The Filbert and the Fly!"—
    I looked, and she had vanishèd;
        She left behind a Sigh.


----------



## prabe

looks good to me, boss


----------



## Umbran

Eltab said:


> You don't actually hate bards, you are just trying to drive off the competition.
> 
> Search your feelings, you know this to be true.




So, he's Darth Bard, is what you're saying?


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> So, he's Darth Bard, is what you're saying?



Seems legit.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>









That's a good breakfast, but what are we having for lunch?


----------



## Cadence

So, speaking of religions and halflings and hated things, I need a new cell phone by the end of the month.  Android, under $300 would be great, could do $500 if it's worth it.   PIxel 5A?  (Only two more years of life?) Help!


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> So, speaking of religions and halflings and hated things, I need a new cell phone by the end of the month.  Android, under $300 would be great, could do $500 if it's worth it.   PIxel 5A?  (Only two more years of life?) Help!



AT&T, huh? I maintain a Seattle number for my trips out there and kept getting bothered about upgrading, so I wouldn't get cut off. Bought a A52s 5G dual SIM, for no particular reason.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> AT&T, huh? I maintain a Seattle number for my trips out there and kept getting bothered about upgrading, so I wouldn't get cut off. Bought a A52s 5G dual SIM, for no particular reason.



My old model is so hated that neither AT&T nor T-mobile will support it.  (Apparently it had volte until it updated to android 10?  I have no idea how that works).  5G here I come.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> So, speaking of religions and halflings and hated things, I need a new cell phone by the end of the month.  Android, under $300 would be great, could do $500 if it's worth it.   PIxel 5A?  (Only two more years of life?) Help!



I have a Samsung at the moment, but I always had great experiences with the Moto G series.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> My old model is so hated that neither AT&T nor T-mobile will support it.  (Apparently it had volte until it updated to android 10?  I have no idea how that works).  5G here I come.



The phone that they're telling me would no longer work is a A51-5F (international version, with simultaneous dual SIM _and_ Micro SD). They list the regular A51 as being compatible because it'll do 4G, however, because my phone isn't _exactly_ what they say is compatible they tell me that it won't connect, even though it does 4G. Bull. Do you know how hard it is to find a phone that will simultaneously do dual SIM and a Micro SD? The only other phone I've had that did is a Microsoft Lumia 950. Loved that phone.


----------



## Cadence

Ordered, wish me luck.  Supposed to be here before the end of the month when my old one is supposed to die.

** Shakes fist at sky **

The ones with spirally cords that had to be attached to the wall and rotary dials lasted decades!!


----------



## Eltab

Cadence said:


> The ones with spirally cords that had to be attached to the wall and rotary dials lasted decades!!
> 
> View attachment 150490



They also never upgrade - you have to buy a fancy(-ier) answering machine for that.  But yes, 30 years and still works just like I expect.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Ordered, wish me luck.  Supposed to be here before the end of the month when my old one is supposed to die.
> 
> ** Shakes fist at sky **
> 
> The ones with spirally cords that had to be attached to the wall and rotary dials lasted decades!!
> 
> View attachment 150490



The device would last forever, but how much did it cost to call long distance...?


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> The device would last forever, but how much did it cost to call long distance...?


----------



## darjr

Look! In my house! 

I blame every single one of you.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Look! In my house!
> 
> I blame every single one of you.
> 
> View attachment 150491



Don't forget the sardines.


----------



## CleverNickName

My wife:  "I accidentally made too much pizza dough.  There's enough for two pizzas."
Me:  "I love you so much."


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> Look! In my house!
> 
> I blame every single one of you.
> 
> View attachment 150491



Looks like a pretty good start.  What else you got?


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> Looks like a pretty good start.  What else you got?



You wound me.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> You wound me.



Join us!


----------



## Deset Gled

Parmandur said:


> Join us!


----------



## Eltab

darjr said:


> Look! In my house!
> 
> I blame every single one of you.
> 
> View attachment 150491



Hawaiian or tropical pizza tastes good.  Don't let the voices on the Internet bother you - fix one up and try it out.


----------



## Parmandur

Deset Gled said:


>



If only you understood the flavor of the Dark Side.


----------



## Cadence

Eltab said:


> Hawaiian or tropical pizza tastes good.  Don't let the voices on the Internet bother you - fix one up and try it out.




At the place I shift managed decades ago, we made a pizza with all the toppings (I want to say there were 21, but that seems too many; pineapple was available, fish were not).  The taste of each bite came down to whether it had pineapple or jalapeno on it.   I don't remember talking about pineapple being a strange option back then, but we were young so what did we know.


----------



## Cadence

I realize this is pot-kettle, but please, let it go.

Dammit, Disney song.


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> If only you understood the flavor of the Dark Sode.




The Dark Soda?  You mean Root Beer?


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> The Dark Soda?  You mean Root Beer?



I mean, it goes pretty well with all sorts of pizza, particularly if you add Bailey's.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> The Dark Soda?  You mean Root Beer?



It's insidious.


----------



## darjr

Ope! This thread here. Post that crap in THIS THREAD.

Ugh

I’ll get it eventually


----------



## Asisreo

Gradine said:


> has gotten to the point, however, that "LGB", is a deliberately anti-trans statement.



I can never understand how people can be so petty as to actively be as rude as possible to people, especially when they don't understand them.


----------



## J.Quondam

Asisreo said:


> I can never understand how people can be so petty as to actively be as rude as possible to people, especially when they don't understand them.



Well if people stopped being that way, something terrible might happen, like an outbreak of world peace or something.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Well if people stopped being that way, something terrible might happen, like an outbreak of world peace or something.



AND WHAT WOULD WE DO IF THAT HAPPENED


----------



## J.Quondam

prabe said:


> AND WHAT WOULD WE DO IF THAT HAPPENED



It would be mass chaos!


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> It would be mass chaos!


----------



## CleverNickName

Seriously though, why do we even have bards and paladins?  A bard is just a rogue with a lute, and a paladin is just a fighter who went to church (once).  Cavalier?  You mean "fighter with a pet horse."  Assassin?  Funny way to spell 'rogue' if you ask me.

Monks, barbarians, artificers, friggin _psions_... This game is already pretty complicated, why complicate it further? _On purpose_?


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> Seriously though, why do we even have bards and paladins?  A bard is just a rogue with a lute, and a paladin is just a fighter who went to church (once).  Cavalier?  You mean "fighter with a pet horse."  Assassin?  Funny way to spell 'rogue' if you ask me.
> 
> Monks, barbarians, artificers, friggin _psions_... This game is already pretty complicated, why complicate it further? _On purpose_?



You ain't wrong.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Seriously though, why do we even have bards and paladins?  A bard is just a rogue with a lute, and a paladin is just a fighter who went to church (once).  Cavalier?  You mean "fighter with a pet horse."  Assassin?  Funny way to spell 'rogue' if you ask me.
> 
> Monks, barbarians, artificers, friggin _psions_... This game is already pretty complicated, why complicate it further? _On purpose_?



Because power creep.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> You ain't wrong.





Ryujin said:


> Because power creep.



"No, see, MY character is totally different!  Just let me invent a reason right quick..."


----------



## Cadence

That's not the thread I would expect so much defensiveness and arguing in...


----------



## darjr

Ima the arbitrator of truth and beauty.

Uh, by your posts? Definitely not.


----------



## payn




----------



## Divine1943

You’d think DnD nerds wouldn’t be so quick to lick the boot of billionaires, but I guess the desire to feel like you’re accepted overrides any sense of self respect or dignity.


----------



## Ryujin

Divine1943 said:


> You’d think DnD nerds wouldn’t be so quick to lick the boot of billionaires, but I guess the desire to feel like you’re accepted overrides any sense of self respect or dignity.



Split on whether to laugh or cry over that one but you can only post one reaction, so I'll follow up with this.


----------



## darjr

When you have to resort to name calling and rhetorical flailing about, you’ve lost. Lost me at least.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> When you have to resort to name calling and rhetorical flailing about, you’ve lost. Lost me at least.



Spoken like a true nerfherder. Why, in my day....


----------



## Divine1943

darjr said:


> When you have to resort to name calling and rhetorical flailing about, you’ve lost. Lost me at least.



Nice stealth edit there. If you’re going to make a joke about abuse on a public forum, at least have the integrity to stand by it.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> Spoken like a true nerfherder. Why, in my day....



Nerfherding is peaceful and fulfilling. Where else’s are people gonna get those darts?


----------



## darjr

Divine1943 said:


> Nice stealth edit there. If you’re going to make a joke about abuse on a public forum, at least have the integrity to stand by it.



Oh! Integrity now?


----------



## Parmandur

Sometimes I wonder what I'm missing, and other tines I'm glad to be missing it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Oh! Integrity now?




In the name of the greatest commenters that have ever trod this forum, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of New Zealand Pizza toppings, and I say integrity now, integrity tomorrow, integrity forever.

-Someone with an unclear sense of what is appropriate, probably.


----------



## Umbran

Divine1943 said:


> Nice stealth edit there. If you’re going to make a joke about abuse on a public forum, at least have the integrity to stand by it.




*Mod Note:*
Guess what?  Directly insulting people is still not acceptable in this thread.  

You've had several posts reported this morning - I don't know what is up with you, but it is time for you to consider adjusting your approach to people.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In the name of the greatest commenters that have ever trod this forum, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of New Zealand Pizza toppings, and I say integrity now, integrity tomorrow, integrity forever.
> 
> -Someone with an unclear sense of what is appropriate, probably.



We had Philly Cheese Strak and Spinach on a pizza last night.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> We had Philly Cheese Strak and Spinach on a pizza last night.




We all have terrible secrets.........


----------



## darjr

I haven’t dared make the pineapple pizza yet. 

I guess the pizza makings and the pineapple were separate purchases. A coincidence.


----------



## Cadence

Anime pineapple creature (Ludicolo) with white background. I thought Exeggutor was one too, but apparently coconut.


----------



## darjr

This certainly is making my wanting to eat pineapple pizza come to a middle.


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I say integrity now, integrity tomorrow, integrity forever.
> 
> -Someone with an unclear sense of what is appropriate, probably.




At least someone who didn't work in the design and construction of warp nacelle cores.


----------



## darjr

Galandris said:


> At least someone who didn't work in the design and construction of warp nacelle cores.



Speaking of that. I always wonder why there weren’t ships with a couple few warp cores. As spares and as a big big badda bomba?

Kinda like that jump ship attack from Star Wars.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Parmandur said:


> We had Philly Cheese Strak and Spinach on a pizza last night.




 Spinach is weird enough, but I don't even know what strak is...


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> Spinach is weird enough, but I don't even know what strak is...



1. *to deliver (a blow or stroke)* to (a person) 2. to come or cause to come into sudden or violent contact (with)

I believe the idea is that the Philly cheese strak attacks your stomach in awful ways.


----------



## Cadence

I'd seen before that you can still see the creation of a new thread by someone who has blocked you, and reply to it, but not see anything of theirs in it except the thread creation post.

This is the first time I've seen that you can see a person who has blocked you's icon and name on the right side of the community > new post page when they are the last post.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In the name of the greatest commenters that have ever trod this forum, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of New Zealand Pizza toppings, and I say integrity now, integrity tomorrow, integrity forever.
> 
> -Someone with an unclear sense of what is appropriate, probably.



(CleverNickName has entered the chat)


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I haven’t dared make the pineapple pizza yet.
> 
> I guess the pizza makings and the pineapple were separate purchases. A coincidence.



In all seriousness,  add bacon. It's good.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> In all seriousness,  add bacon. It's good.



Its ture, though I prefer Canadian bacon and banana peppers.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Its ture, though I prefer Canadian bacon and banana peppers.




Toppings like these and their pineapple allies constitute an axis of evil, mustering to threaten the pizzas of the world.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Speaking of that. I always wonder why there weren’t ships with a couple few warp cores. As spares and as a big big badda bomba?
> 
> Kinda like that jump ship attack from Star Wars.




We can speculate:
1) Effects that take down one warp core in a non-destructive way are apt to take down all warp cores a ship has.
2) If you have two, and run into something that will take down a warp core in a destructive way, you now have twice the chances of blowing up when you don't want to.
3) If you want to make a bigger matter-antimatter explosion purposefully, you can make a bigger photon torpedo and not have to sacrifice an entire crew in the process.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Toppings like these and their pineapple allies constitute an axis of evil, mustering to threaten the pizzas of the world.



The Snarf doth protest too much, methinks.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> The Snarf doth protest too much, methinks.




I refuse to be tied by the surly bonds of apathy.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> We can speculate:
> 1) Effects that take down one warp core in a non-destructive way are apt to take down all warp cores a ship has.
> 2) If you have two, and run into something that will take down a warp core in a destructive way, you now have twice the chances of blowing up when you don't want to.
> 3) If you want to make a bigger matter-antimatter explosion purposefully, you can make a bigger photon torpedo and not have to sacrifice an entire crew in the process.



4) Treaties against "weapons of mass destruction" (which is a weird thing, considering that even in TOS it was canon that a starship could lay waste to a whole planet anyway).


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I refuse to be tied by the surly bonds of apathy.



Those aren't "surly bonds of apathy," they are pineapple tidbits.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Toppings like these and their pineapple allies constitute an axis of evil, mustering to threaten the pizzas of the world.



 I assume pineapple is ok on shish kabobs?


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> Those aren't "surly bonds of apathy," they are pineapple tidbits.



If they are on Pizza, that’s exactly what they are.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> I assume pineapple is ok on shish kabobs?



What? Can they BE shish kabobs without it?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Those aren't "surly bonds of apathy," they are pineapple tidbits.




Extremism in the defense of good pizza is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justly excluding pineapple and its New Zealand brethren is no virtue!


----------



## darjr

Wait?!? How many calories does it take?

Wait wait wait?! How many calories does it take to post a post?

If it’s enough I could modify my TDE and have that pineapple! 

I owe someone a thank you!

Edit: I’m actually kinda serious, if I walk around every time.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hey, don't get me wrong...I love a good pepperoni pizza.  It's a great balance of savory and spicy, meaty and cheesy, the chewy textures all working together...it's delicious.  But it's not the only pizza I've enjoyed, and I wouldn't want to eat it every day.   Not even every time I order a pizza.

This pizza topping discussion has reminded me of something.  The best graffiti I've ever seen was scribbled on the wall of a bathroom stall in my college dormitory.

Someone had written, "Why go out for bologna when you can have steak at home"
Below it, someone else had written, "Again."


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Toppings like these and their pineapple allies constitute an axis of evil, mustering to threaten the pizzas of the world.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Hey, don't get me wrong...I love a good pepperoni pizza.





....said no Italian, ever.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....said no Italian, ever.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....said no Italian, ever.



Well I'm not Italian, so that tracks.

Come to think of it, is pizza really an Italian food?  I've heard folks claim it's Italian, and I've heard others claim it's strictly American (Italian immigrant, specifically).  Any food historians in the thread?


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Well I'm not Italian, so that tracks.
> 
> Come to think of it, is pizza really an Italian food?  I've heard folks claim it's Italian, and I've heard others claim it's strictly American-Italian.



North American style pizza is as much Italian as Fortune Cookies are Chinese.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Well I'm not Italian, so that tracks.
> 
> Come to think of it, is pizza really an Italian food?  I've heard folks claim it's Italian, and I've heard others claim it's strictly American-Italian.





....is pizza Italian? Is the Pope Catholic? Does a bear do its business in the woods?

What has this thread come to????????

Yes, pizza is Italian. The famous Pizza Margherita (which pre-dates any American pizzas) was named after the Queen of Italy (although the actual pizza pre-dates her, and the story is likely apocryphal).


----------



## darjr

I’ve signed a contract in the woods. I didn’t ask if they were a bear.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Yes, pizza is Italian.





Snarf Zagyg said:


> (although the actual pizza pre-dates her, and the story is likely apocryphal).



Thus my confusion.

But in all honesty, I'm not trying to win any points or sway an argument over the national origin of pizza.  I was just curious.  My favorite "style" of pizza is Brooklyn, with its enormous "so big you have to fold it in the middle to even hold it" thin crust and minimal toppings...that's not gonna change if I learn that _actual _pizza is from Europe and I've been enjoying BadWrongPizza my whole life.

Chicago-style "pizza" is actually a "casserole," but I don't hold that against it either...it's a friggin' _delicious_ casserole.

Detroit-style pizza is maybe my least-favorite, with the square crust and burnt cheese.  "The burned cheese is the best part!" folks will say, and I honestly hope that's not true because otherwise there's no redeeming it.  But it's still pizza, and still an excellent choice if you're in Detroit and craving a zesty flatbread.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Thus my confusion.




????

That story was from the late 1800s, but actual pizza was well-known and described in Italy in the mid-1800s, so it existed even before then.

Pizza (or "pizza pie") was something introduced into America by Italian immigrants, who brought this working-class staple with them.


----------



## Cadence

Does pizza by country track with football by country?


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> Does pizza by country track with football by country?



No. In the US pizzas are round.


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> No. In the US pizzas are round.



Except in Detroit, for some reason.


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> 4) Treaties against "weapons of mass destruction" (which is a weird thing, considering that even in TOS it was canon that a starship could lay waste to a whole planet anyway).




At worst, ramming at high sublight speed does the deal, Chicxulub^10.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> Except in Detroit, for some reason.



They never quite got football right either


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> No. In the US pizzas are round.



Are they?


----------



## CleverNickName

CleverNickName said:


> Except in Detroit, for some reason.





Gradine said:


> They never quite got football right either















(Go Lions)


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Chicago-style "pizza" is actually a "casserole," but I don't hold that against it either...it's a friggin' _delicious_ casserole.




Well, two of three Chicago styles (deep dish and stuffed) are described by some as such, the third (tavern style) is more classical thickness.



CleverNickName said:


> Detroit-style pizza is maybe my least-favorite, with the square crust and burnt cheese. "The burned cheese is the best part!" folks will say, and I honestly hope that's not true because otherwise there's no redeeming it. But it's still pizza, and still an excellent choice if you're in Detroit and craving a zesty flatbread.




It took your post and almost three decades for me to wonder.  The pan-pizza place I shift-managed in undergrad sold by the slice.  While the whole pies for delivery were done in circular pans, the slices were done in rectangular 4-slice pans, with the crust built up at the short edeges of the pan and not the long.   But the unbuilt-up sides touching the pan didn't get particularly bad.  So, could we have just done them with no crusts at the one end of each slice at all?  On tavern style of thinner pie, the middle square slices are eaten just fine.  Is it trouble with a bigger slice of thicker stuff to not have a firmer end?


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Are they?



Yes.

Unless you include places in Canada. Like Detroit.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Detroit-style pizza is maybe my least-favorite, with the square crust and burnt cheese.  "The burned cheese is the best part!" folks will say, and I honestly hope that's not true because otherwise there's no redeeming it. * But it's still pizza*, and still an excellent choice if you're in Detroit and craving a zesty flatbread.




Objection.

Facts not in evidence.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Yes.
> 
> Unless you include places in Canada. Like Detroit.




Why do you hate Canada so much?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Why do you hate Canada so much?




What are they going to do about it?

APOLOGIZE?????


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> Why do you hate Canada so much?



I don’t.

It’s their bacon I dint like.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Why do you hate Canada so much?



Right? Some of the best pizza I have had came out of Montreal.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> I don’t.
> 
> It’s their bacon I dint like.




They do use a very odd pronunciation for "Ham".


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Objection.
> 
> Facts not in evidence.



My bad; I will rephrase my statement:

Detroit-style pizza is maybe my least-favorite, with the square crust and burnt cheese. "The burned cheese is the best part!" folks will say, and I honestly hope that's not true because otherwise there's no redeeming it. *But it's still a **flat, open-faced baked pie of Italian origin, consisting of a thin layer of bread dough topped with spiced tomato sauce and cheese, often garnished with anchovies, sausage slices, mushrooms, etc.**,* and still an excellent choice if you're in Detroit and craving a zesty flatbread.​


Spoiler


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> I was just curious.




For these purposes, perhaps Wikipedia is sufficient.








						History of pizza - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Though, with that, I must admit that the absolute worst pizza I've ever had, I had in Rome.
And that's including school lunch pizza in my estimation.


----------



## darjr

OK, I love Canada.

Still dint like ham.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> and still an excellent choice if you're in Detroit and craving a zesty flatbread.




If you're in Detroit, the only thing you should be craving is a swift end to your existence. 

I once spent five years in Detroit; I think it was during my two-hour layover at the airport.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> For these purposes, perhaps Wikipedia is sufficient.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of pizza - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org




And so, the only question I have after getting all the way to the first bullet point is, why on oearth do we not have more D&D characters baking pizza on their shields!?!


----------



## darjr

I ran a game at work, when I still had an AT work. And two of the players shields had arms carved on them holding flagons. Flagons they’d fill with beer and slam them together during fights whenever they keyed off each other. Lots of beer was spilled.


----------



## dragoner

Chicago style is the one slice style, too much cheese, at least when I go up to the city (I'm not too far away); square style is often called Sicilian? I'm kind of a heretic anyways because I eat it with a knife and fork.


----------



## Umbran

dragoner said:


> square style is often called Sicilian?




In the US, there is square pizza that isn't Sicilian.

Sicilian pizza here has a very thick crust - almost like you took a rectangle of focaccia and put toppings on it.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> Chicago-style "pizza" is actually a "casserole," but I don't hold that against it either...it's a friggin' _delicious_ casserole.



My nderstanding is that tChicago style is a buit more traditional than most American varieties of Pizza...but then, that might just depend on which Italian tradition that you paybattention to.


----------



## Cadence

The Morning Post (London) - 17 Dec 1860 had an article on Naples that talked about Pizza in part of it.  The clip below starts half way through the pizza section.  It was also printed in several other English newspapers later that month, and in Boston the following January (just the pizza section).


----------



## Parmandur

Fun fact, pizza is cognate with pita. People have been putting stuff on top of flat bread and baking it for a long, long time.


----------



## CleverNickName

I love this thread so much.


----------



## CleverNickName

In my experience, the quality of a pizza is inversely proportional to the number of times the word "authentic" appears on the menu.

"Authentic New York Style Pizza with authentic sauce from an authentic Italian recipe and authentic tomatoes, cooked in our authentic brick pizza oven!"

Yeah, that pizza is gonna taste like garbage.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Gun fact, pizza is cognate with pita. People have been putting stuff on top of flat bread and baking it for a long, long time.




True fact: Since time immemorial, people have been putting the wrong stuff on top of flat bread and insulting all that is good and right.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Gun fact, pizza is cognate with pita. People have been putting stuff on top of flat bread and baking it for a long, long time.



See football pizza.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> True fact: Since time immemorial, people have been putting the wrong stuff on top of flat bread and insulting all that is good and right.



The line between a genius and a madman is measured only in deliciousness. Pineapple and Canadian bacon is genius. Velveeta and flaming hot cheetohs makes me want to bring back tar and feathering.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> The line between a genius and a madman is measured only in deliciousness. Pineapple and Canadian bacon is genius. Velveeta and flaming hot cheetohs makes me want to bring back tar and feathering.



I think you got those two mixed up


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> See football pizza.



That’s not round or hexagonal at all.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> (Go Lions)



I haven't been paying attention, how are they doing in the playoffs this year?


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> That’s not round or hexagonal at all.



It is pita bread, and delicious.


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> bring back tar and feathering.



I dint even want pineapple, now this?


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> I think you got those two mixed up



We need a petition to get the green puke emoji option for likes here at EN World.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Velveeta and flaming hot cheetohs makes me want to bring back tar and feathering.




Of course!

Everyone knows that the proper use for Flaming Hot Cheetos is Ice Cream!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Of course!
> 
> Everyone knows that the proper use for Flaming Hot Cheetos is Ice Cream!



What about those Takis?


----------



## Gradine

To be fair, Cheddar Jalapeno Cheetos > Flamin' Hot Cheetos, but they're both superior.

I can see the appeal of Takis but they aren't for me


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> True fact: Since time immemorial, people have been putting the wrong stuff on top of flat bread and insulting all that is good and right.




All that is good and right is pompous, and deserves to be taken down a notch.


----------



## CleverNickName

Pineapple is to pizza, as vinegar is to potato chips:  strangely divisive.

And the loudest complainers are also the least likely to have tasted it.


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> Pineapple is to pizza, as vinegar is to potato chips.



A *fabulous *treat that you don't necessarily want to have every time!


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> In my experience, the quality of a pizza is inversely proportional to the number of times the word "authentic" appears on the menu.
> 
> "Authentic New York Style Pizza with authentic sauce from an authentic Italian recipe and authentic tomatoes, cooked in our authentic brick pizza oven!"
> 
> Yeah, that pizza is gonna taste like garbage.



Authentic is overrated.


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> A *fabulous *treat that you don't necessarily want to have every time!



This is the way.


----------



## CleverNickName

If the Psion class was a pizza, it would be pepperoni and cheese on thin crust, but the restaurant would refuse to call it a pizza and insist that it's a Brand New and Exciting Meal That's Completely Different From Anything You've Ever Tried We Promise.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> All that is good and right is pompous, and deserves to be taken down a notch.




Bring it.


----------



## Malmuria

Dnd Survivor:  best table snack


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

If you don't like something that other people like, that's perfectly fine, but you don't have to actively work to try and keep what they like from existing. 

Like Pizza. You don't have to like pineapple on pizza, but you do have to accept that _it's okay if I do_.


----------



## Malmuria

AcererakTriple6 said:


> If you don't like something that other people like, that's perfectly fine, but you don't have to actively work to try and keep what they like from existing.
> 
> Like Pizza. You don't have to like pineapple on pizza, but you do have to accept that _it's okay if I do_.



I agree.  Whatever you like to do in the privacy of your own home is your business


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> If you don't like something that other people like, that's perfectly fine, but you don't have to actively work to try and keep what they like from existing.
> 
> Like Pizza. You don't have to like pineapple on pizza, but you do have to accept that _it's okay if I do_.




Acceptance is just the fancy name that people use for surrender.


That's right. We've heard it before. "Don't worry about it- who cares if people are wearing their yoga pants at a fancy restaurant? It's okay if they do!"

I refuse to accept the mediocre pizza toppings that surround us. I will not be beholden to that tiny voice that constantly yaps in the back of my head saying, "Why bother? The 'I'm with Stupid' T-Shirt works great for formal wear!'" I will not listen to those who seek to poison my mind with thoughts of fictional places like New Zealand, Hogwarts, Canada, and the Arrowverse.

NO! I WILL NOT SURRENDER.

I will not go quietly into the night!

I will not vanish without a fight!

I am going to live on!

I am going to survive!


----------



## Cadence

Tracking down the heart of darkness... Pineapple Pizza back to 1956.

From the Honolulu Advertiser and Hartford Courant, 27 Dec 1956.










Part of the article is also in the 27 Dec 1956, The Richmond News, but it doesn't seem to have the recipe.  Appears January 10, 1957 in the Meriden Journal (CT), January 14, 1957 in the Chicago Tribune, January 24 in the Orlando Evening Star, January 29 in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, and  February 1 in the Atlanta Constitution.

Here is the one from the March 1 Tampa Morning Tribune





An article with a mention back to 1953 and then at restaurants starts in 1957:








						Pizza History in the U.S. (Part 2): The True Origin of Hawaiian Pizza
					






					passionatefoodie.blogspot.com
				



I wish I'd found this page and the one right before it before going to newspapers.com myself.

Including the 1957 menu from Francine's Pizza Jungle in Portland.  Click on that if you dare!  I wonder if she was from NZ.


----------



## Cadence

AcererakTriple6 said:


> If you don't like something that other people like, that's perfectly fine, but you don't have to actively work to try and keep what they like from existing.
> 
> Like Pizza. You don't have to like pineapple on pizza, but you do have to accept that _it's okay if I do_.




Even Tuna on Pizza while drinking IPAs in a room with DC Comic pictures and playing <insert edition you don't like>?

:-(    Being a good person is hard!


----------



## darjr

I love history. Even if it is about such a dark time.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Acceptance is just the fancy name that people use for surrender.
> 
> 
> That's right. We've heard it before. "Don't worry about it- who cares if people are wearing their yoga pants at a fancy restaurant? It's okay if they do!"
> 
> I refuse to accept the mediocre pizza toppings that surround us. I will not be beholden to that tiny voice that constantly yaps in the back of my head saying, "Why bother? The 'I'm with Stupid' T-Shirt works great for formal wear!'" I will not listen to those who seek to poison my mind with thoughts of fictional places like New Zealand, Hogwarts, Canada, and the Arrowverse.
> 
> NO! I WILL NOT SURRENDER.
> 
> I will not go quietly into the night!
> 
> I will not vanish without a fight!
> 
> I am going to live on!
> 
> I am going to survive!



Have I ever told y'all just exactly how much I hate the term "athleisure" ...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Have I ever told y'all just exactly how much I hate the term "athleisure" ...




What people fail to realize is that when they are eating these so-called "pizza toppings" straight from the infernal furnaces of Canada and New Zealand ....

They aren't disrespecting the pizza. No.

...._they are disrespecting themselves._ 

Fat, drunk, and ignorant of the Oxford comma is no way to go through life, son.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I am going to survive!




 <cue disco music>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> <cue disco music>










Ra Ra Snarf Zagyg!
Lover of the Sueloise Queen
There was a cat that really was gone

Ra Ra Snarf Zagyg!
Enworld's greatest love machine
It was a shame how he carried on...


----------



## CleverNickName

CleverNickName said:


> If the Psion class was a pizza, it would be pepperoni and cheese on thin crust, but the restaurant would refuse to call it a pizza and insist that it's a Brand New and Exciting Meal That's Completely Different From Anything You've Ever Tried We Promise.



The Assassin would be the same thing, only it would be served on a trash can lid.


----------



## CleverNickName

Mad_Jack said:


> <cue disco music>



A place where nobody dared to go
the love that we came to know
They call it Pineapple
(It takes your breath and it'll leave you blind)
And now, open your  eyes and see
What we have made is real
We are with Pineapple
(A dream of it, we offer you)

A million pizzas dancing and there you are, a shooting star
A ham and pineapple pie and you're here with me, eternally

Pineapple, Pineapple...


----------



## Galandris

Bard is actually a legitimate pizza topping. 

(as in "A rasher of fat bacon placed on meat or game before roasting")


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What are they going to do about it?
> 
> APOLOGIZE?????



You have yet to feel the power of our passive aggression.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> You have yet to feel the power of our passive aggression.



There's some non-passive aggression out there now!


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> What about those Takis?



In Toronto, at least, the advertising for Takis said, "DON'T EAT TAKIS!" I tried them. The ads were right.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ra Ra Snarf Zagyg!
> Lover of the Sueloise Queen



Did you just try to rhyme "Zagyg" with "Queen"? 

I take it back. I apologize for the many times I've called you a bard or liked a post that was calling you one.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Did you just try to rhyme "Zagyg" with "Queen"?
> 
> I take it back. I apologize for the many times I've called you a bard or liked a post that was calling you one.



Free verse, yo.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Did you just try to rhyme "Zagyg" with "Queen"?
> 
> I take it back. I apologize for the many times I've called you a bard or liked a post that was calling you one.








__





						Perfect and imperfect rhymes - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




His palms spaghetti, knees weak, arms spaghetti
There's vomit on his sweater spaghetti, mom's spaghetti
He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm spaghetti to drop bombs,
But he keeps on spaghetti


----------



## Cadence

"I don't despise the current direction of D&D, really!  It's just a coincidence that I regularly start threads that someone who hated it would start."


----------



## CleverNickName

"Okay okay, I won't start another racially-charged fight about the ethics and morality of slaughtering orcs on sight.  Sheesh.

So anyway. _Goblins, _amirite?"


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> "Okay okay, I won't start another racially-charged fight about the ethics and morality of slaughtering orcs on sight.  Sheesh.
> 
> So anyway. _Goblins, _amirite?"



"I especially love it when evil goblin mooks that we get to kill without moral repercussions are sentient, can beg for mercy, have babies, cultures, and speak languages that we don't bother to understand/learn. That makes it _especially _satisfying to kill them!"

I was going to make a thread the other day about how I like Goblinoids and the recent changes giving them Fey Ancestry in Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse, and how it all shows that they're really the victims in the D&D Multiverse (their pantheon was dominated/massacred by Maglubiyet, they're now ruled by an evil tyrant god that enforces a certain culture/caste system on them that oppresses literally everyone in it, they are capable of good, and are just the victims of a major atrocity that included eugenics and genocide).

Now . . . I'm going to hold off of making that thread. It would be a bit awkward and divisive having one thread ongoing that said "Goblins should all be murdered on sight, and it should be satisfying to commit genocide against them" and "Goblinoids are actually victims of a major tragedy, and are quite possibly the single most victimized collection of races in all of D&D 5e's lore, except possibly the Duergar".

Edit: I ended up making this thread. Here's the link if you want to check it out:








						D&D 5E - Goblinoids in D&D 5e: Their Origin, Story, and Tragedy (+)
					

For much of D&D's history, it has had plenty of races whose whole identities and stories basically revolved around them being always-evil villainous humanoid mooks that the players can kill without having to deal with any sort of moral ramifications for mass-murdering them (Point 1 of evidence)...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## darjr

Block the other thread starter then each y’all only see one thread.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

darjr said:


> Block the other thread starter then each y’all only see one thread.



I'm pretty sure the Ignore feature does not work that way (not that I'd consider doing this if it did).


----------



## Umbran

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Did you just try to rhyme "Zagyg" with "Queen"?
> 
> I take it back. I apologize for the many times I've called you a bard or liked a post that was calling you one.




It rhymes in ancient Sueloise.


----------



## dragoner

AcererakTriple6 said:


> "I especially love it when evil goblin mooks that we get to kill without moral repercussions are sentient, can beg for mercy, have babies, cultures, and speak languages that we don't bother to understand/learn. That makes it _especially _satisfying to kill them!"
> 
> I was going to make a thread the other day about how I like Goblinoids and the recent changes giving them Fey Ancestry in Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse, and how it all shows that they're really the victims in the D&D Multiverse (their pantheon was dominated/massacred by Maglubiyet, they're now ruled by an evil tyrant god that enforces a certain culture/caste system on them that oppresses literally everyone in it, they are capable of good, and are just the victims of a major atrocity that included eugenics and genocide).
> 
> Now . . . I'm going to hold off of making that thread. It would be a bit awkward and divisive having one thread ongoing that said "Goblins should all be murdered on sight, and it should be satisfying to commit genocide against them" and "Goblinoids are actually victims of a major tragedy, and are quite possibly the single most victimized collection of races in all of D&D 5e's lore, except possibly the Duergar".



I might read this one, because I have been avoiding the other.


----------



## darjr

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm pretty sure the Ignore feature does not work that way (not that I'd consider doing this if it did).



Shhhh!!!!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

dragoner said:


> I might read this one, because I have been avoiding the other.



Well, if I do get to writing it, it will probably be around next week (it depends on how long it takes the other Goblin thread to die down). If I can remember, when I do end up making that thread, I can let you know if you'd like. (The basics of the thread were explained in that post, but I was going to go more in-depth with their folklore fey connection, their probable connection with the Unseelie Archfey, and Nilbogism.)


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Umbran said:


> It rhymes in ancient Sueloise.



If I ever write a song that has bad rhymes like that, I'll definitely use this excuse. "It rhymes in this made up language that has never been detailed". Automatic "I win" button


----------



## darjr

This thread is gunna git me in trouble


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> This thread is gunna git me in trouble



*These threads are...

FTFY


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect and imperfect rhymes - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His palms spaghetti, knees weak, arms spaghetti
> There's vomit on his sweater spaghetti, mom's spaghetti
> He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm spaghetti to drop bombs,
> But he keeps on spaghetti



I see you've taken the soundcloud subclass


----------



## Malmuria

I love how alignment and racial asi are _totally necessary_ for world building and roleplaying, because you are such a deep world builder and roleplayer, and at the same time sometimes you just want a game where you can kill things without thinking about it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> I see you've taken the soundcloud subclass




I’m no Ski Mask the Slump God, but I aspire to his imperfect rhymes when it comes to channeling the greatest of them all.

Now, I must prepare myself for a night flight to Venus.


----------



## dragoner

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Well, if I do get to writing it, it will probably be around next week (it depends on how long it takes the other Goblin thread to die down). If I can remember, when I do end up making that thread, I can let you know if you'd like. (The basics of the thread were explained in that post, but I was going to go more in-depth with their folklore fey connection, their probable connection with the Unseelie Archfey, and Nilbogism.)



Cool, thanks!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Malmuria said:


> I love how alignment and racial asi are _totally necessary_ for world building and roleplaying, because you are such a deep world builder and roleplayer, and at the same time sometimes you just want a game where you can kill things without thinking about it.



Some people just want what is traditional in D&D, but want it to come across as a more nuanced opinion. There's interesting worldbuilding with nuance and complex societies and morals (Eberron, Exandria, Dark Sun, etc), and there's simplistic, hack-and-slash worldbuilding where you get to kill everything on sight because they're basically all evil (WH40K). You can't both have complex and deep worldbuilding and whole cultures of people where everyone is somehow 100% evil all the time and genocide is okay.

I guess a good general rule is the "is-Genocide-okay-in-any-circumstance-ometer". If it is literally ever okay, the world isn't nuanced or "deep". If it isn't ever okay, then it can be.


----------



## Asisreo

AcererakTriple6 said:


> If I ever write a song that has bad rhymes like that, I'll definitely use this excuse. "It rhymes in this made up language that has never been detailed". Automatic "I win" button



That would fuel my suspicion considering that songs in many languages don't have to rhyme. Also, my Detect Lies spell would also be active, so that would give it away.


----------



## BookTenTiger




----------



## Cadence

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Some people just want what is traditional in D&D, but want it to come across as a more nuanced opinion. There's interesting worldbuilding with nuance and complex societies and morals (Eberron, Exandria, Dark Sun, etc), and there's simplistic, hack-and-slash worldbuilding where you get to kill everything on sight because they're basically all evil (WH40K). You can't both have complex and deep worldbuilding and whole cultures of people where everyone is somehow 100% evil all the time and genocide is okay.
> 
> I guess a good general rule is the "is-Genocide-okay-in-any-circumstance-ometer". If it is literally ever okay, the world isn't nuanced or "deep". If it isn't ever okay, then it can be.




I'd at least like a discussion of what is covered by geno- to be able to happen before acting like there was nuance.  

Stories involving Borg, Aliens, Zombies, or Clemson Tiger Fans all feel like they end quickly and badly if you stop to talk.  But then they have cured some Borg, there's a good Brood in Marvel comics, zombies have a Disney kids show, and... ah, found the safe one.

* :-(  I failed my "I will not derail the thread roll, sorry.  I tried to recover it though." I really don't want this one shut down!


----------



## Cadence

I wonder if looking at later westerns and some weird westerns could provide some good guidance on having some games with both nuance and high body counts.  In the Gunsmoke radio show it clearly isn't belonging to a particular race/ethnicity that makes someone good or bad.  There are bad people, and even they have legal rights, but if they draw on you or the bullets start flying they're all goners.  And if you're pushed in to an impossible situation, you won't like it but you don't need to wait for them to draw or threaten you personally if they've got you outnumbered (sometimes it is bringing them in dead or alive,.even for the Marshall and Chester). And even in a war setting, the good guys let folks surrender and don't go after the non-combatants 
Gunsmoke never had zombies or far realms creatures, but I assume Marshall Dillon would.have just taken them out.


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> "I especially love it when evil goblin mooks that we get to kill without moral repercussions are sentient, can beg for mercy, have babies, cultures, and speak languages that we don't bother to understand/learn. That makes it _especially _satisfying to kill them!"
> 
> I was going to make a thread the other day about how I like Goblinoids and the recent changes giving them Fey Ancestry in Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse, and how it all shows that they're really the victims in the D&D Multiverse (their pantheon was dominated/massacred by Maglubiyet, they're now ruled by an evil tyrant god that enforces a certain culture/caste system on them that oppresses literally everyone in it, they are capable of good, and are just the victims of a major atrocity that included eugenics and genocide).
> 
> Now . . . I'm going to hold off of making that thread. It would be a bit awkward and divisive having one thread ongoing that said "Goblins should all be murdered on sight, and it should be satisfying to commit genocide against them" and "Goblinoids are actually victims of a major tragedy, and are quite possibly the single most victimized collection of races in all of D&D 5e's lore, except possibly the Duergar".



Cue Glorion breaking into the room where the humanoids are holding an Evil Anonymous support meeting and crying out, "DIE EVIL RACES!"

And some people actually think he's the _hero_ in JourneyQuest?


----------



## Asisreo

Has anyone woken up and just had a seething hatred for a particular fantasy race? I do. 

Just this morning I woke up and found out those darn humans tore down a beautiful treeline near my window! It's not mine, so I can't do anything about it, but now I have ugly tree stumps and giant machines in my view rather than nature as the druids intended it! 

Oh well, I probably deserve it somehow lol


----------



## Cadence

Asisreo said:


> Has anyone woken up and just had a seething hatred for a particular fantasy race? I do.
> 
> Just this morning I woke up and found out those darn humans tore down a beautiful treeline near my window! It's not mine, so I can't do anything about it, but now I have ugly tree stumps and giant machines in my view rather than nature as the druids intended it!
> 
> Oh well, I probably deserve it somehow lol




I'm sorry to hear about your trees  

Given all the bad things they bring on a regular basis, it certainly is hard sometimes to keep positive about humans.


----------



## Ryujin

Asisreo said:


> Has anyone woken up and just had a seething hatred for a particular fantasy race? I do.
> 
> Just this morning I woke up and found out those darn humans tore down a beautiful treeline near my window! It's not mine, so I can't do anything about it, but now I have ugly tree stumps and giant machines in my view rather than nature as the druids intended it!
> 
> Oh well, I probably deserve it somehow lol



Same thing just happened to a friend who lives in a more rural area of Ontario, Canada, when she was told that the grove would be there for at least 4 more years.


----------



## Galandris

Asisreo said:


> Has anyone woken up and just had a seething hatred for a particular fantasy race? I do.




I fear you have a problem with real life humans. Fantasy humans are much better.


----------



## darjr

I do not “wake”.

But ye best attend to mine.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Galandris said:


> I fear you have a problem with real life humans. Fantasy humans are much better.




"Misanthropy is the best thropy." 

Moliere, indubitablement.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> "Misanthropy is the best thropy."
> 
> Moliere, indubitablement.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> ...




Questions for various threads-

A. Would it have been better if Thanos snapped his fingers and just made all the goblins go away?

B. Does Thanos get full XP for all the disappeared critters?

C. If Thanos is getting XP, then what level does that make Thanos afterward? And how cool would that be?

In the spirit of 70s and early 80s Dragon Magazine letters, I think we need to find out the answers to these questions.


----------



## payn

Caring about what people do in their own games? Why so serious?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Caring about what people do in their own games? Why so serious?




Likely because they're doing it wrong. 

Just think about it- people, gaming all wrong and stuff, probably while stuffing their pie-holes with Chef Boyardee poured over Hawaiian pizza.

Sitting by idly while that happens makes you morally complicit, like, um, genocide. Pretty sure that is the accurate comparator.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Likely because they're doing it wrong.
> 
> Just think about it- people, gaming all wrong and stuff, probably while stuffing their pie-holes with Chef Boyardee poured over Hawaiian pizza.
> 
> Sitting by idly while that happens makes you morally complicit, like, um, genocide. Pretty sure that is the accurate comparator.



As long as they are not doing all this in athleisure outfits...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> As long as they are not doing all this in athleisure outfits...




Business on the top, party on the bottom.


----------



## BookTenTiger

_Curtain parts._

A: I like pineapples on my pizza.

B: That's not how pizza should be.

A: Don't tell me my pizza is wrong.

C: I like mushrooms on my pizza.

A: That's not how pizza should be.

_Actors bow. Audience applauds. Curtains close._


----------



## Ryujin

BookTenTiger said:


> _Curtain parts._
> 
> A: I like pineapples on my pizza.
> 
> B: That's not how pizza should be.
> 
> A: Don't tell me my pizza is wrong.
> 
> C: I like mushrooms on my pizza.
> 
> A: That's not how pizza should be.
> 
> _Actors bow. Audience applauds. Curtains close._



I feel that this should include a rhythmic slapping with fish, for some reason.









						Monty Python Fish GIF - Monty Python Fish Slap - Discover & Share GIFs
					

Click to view the GIF




					tenor.com


----------



## CleverNickName

BookTenTiger said:


> _Curtain parts._
> 
> A: I like pineapples on my pizza.
> 
> B: That's not how pizza should be.
> 
> A: Don't tell me my pizza is wrong.
> 
> C: I like mushrooms on my pizza.
> 
> A: That's not how pizza should be.
> 
> _Actors bow. Audience applauds. Curtains close._


----------



## Cadence

Makes mistake of looking in.

Mocks it with: "I don't understand, it doesn't analyze out as good, the oracles gave us better things, why the #%! do you all still like it!"

Then imagines an alien forcing me watch myself ripping on those who like most pizza or burger chains.

Decides between sub-chain and burrito-chain for lunch.


----------



## CleverNickName

But isn't a burrito just a folded pizza?


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> But isn't a burrito just a folded pizza?




It might have fit in with that 1957 Pizza Jungle menu I posted yesterday, but beans and rice seem un-Pizza to me.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> It might have fit in with that 1957 Pizza Jungle menu I posted yesterday, but beans and rice seem un-Pizza to me.





			
				New Zealand said:
			
		

> Hold my beer.


----------



## Cadence

@CleverNickName

When did NZ get what Portland had back in 1957...


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> @CleverNickName
> 
> When did NZ get what Portland had back in 1957...
> 
> View attachment 150667


----------



## Asisreo

Galandris said:


> I fear you have a problem with real life humans. Fantasy humans are much better.



Is it legal to cast a ward against humans? My lawyer says it can't permanently harm them, but also says driving them to insanity for a minute is also not okay. But it's only a minute, so...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Asisreo said:


> Is it legal to cast a ward against humans? My lawyer says it can't permanently harm them, but also says driving them to insanity for a minute is also not okay. But it's only a minute, so...




Hire a better attorney.

Any attorney can tell you what the law is.

A good attorney can tell you the law is what you want it to be.


----------



## Asisreo

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hire a better attorney.
> 
> Any attorney can tell you what the law is.
> 
> A good attorney can tell you the law is what you want it to be.


----------



## Malmuria

TOO LONG DID NOT READ


----------



## Cadence

Malmuria said:


> TOO LONG DID NOT READ



I thought it was really good.  Might be worth it this time.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ooh! I sense a very deep point-counterpoint-countercounterpoint rabbit hole in the making.


----------



## Cadence

Everything in a game world should be consistent between PCs and NPCs.  Except if we can auto-kill them.  Amirite?

Also, on other matters, both are wrong.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> When did NZ get what Portland had back in 1957...




Kosher... pizza...

Note: it is totally possible to make a kosher pizza, in general.  I'm referring to _that_ kosher pizza.


----------



## Cadence

I think the two times finding out about a creator most changed how I experienced things, neither for the better, were finding out Narnia was about religion (I read it in 3rd grade the first time) and finding out it was the same singer all the way through Thunder by Imagine Dragons.


----------



## Gradine

All I want is for some kind of positive discussion to be had before Fearless Leader decides that it's not worth the headache


----------



## payn

You're taking this way too personally.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> I think the two times finding out about a creator most changed how I experienced things, neither for the better, were finding out Narnia was about religion (I read it in 3rd grade the first time) and finding out it was the same singer all the way through Thunder by Imagine Dragons.



Reading Narnia to my kids now, and while God and religion are central themes, the main point is Lewis working to vindicate his own preferences for fiction over what was considered hip in literary circles at the time. Really obvious now as an adult who has read "Important Literature" and actual Medieval Chivalric Romance. Voyage of the Dawn Treader feels like it could have come straight out of ghe 14th century, in a good way.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> ... and finding out it was the same singer all the way through Thunder by Imagine Dragons.




I think we need to have an uncomfortable discussion about "For the Longest Time". And  "Show Me the Way".


----------



## Parmandur

Deset Gled said:


> I think we need to have an uncomfortable discussion about "For the Longest Time". And  "Show Me the Way".



I feel like yhese van adequately be brought on topic into discussing Pizza toppings.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Reading Narnia to my kids now, and while God and religion are central themes, the main point is Lewis working to vindicate his own preferences for fiction over what was considered hip in literary circles at the time. Really obvious now as an adult who has read "Important Literature" and actual Medieval Chivalric Romance. Voyage of the Dawn Treader feels like it could have come straight out of ghe 14th century, in a good way.



It's also useful to realize Lewis was, religion aside, something of a misanthrope.


----------



## Deset Gled

Parmandur said:


> I feel like yhese van adequately be brought on topic into discussing Pizza toppings.




You like Billy Joel and Peter Frampton on your pizza?


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> You like Billy Joel and Peter Frampton on your pizza?



Ick, that definitely sounds like NZ style pizza.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I think what this edition really needs, is 30 more core classes. Like, Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster need to be full classes, and Way of the Shadow, too! Heck, where are my Jock, Jester, and Bureaucrat classes?!?


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I think what this edition really needs, is 30 more core classes. Like, Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster need to be full classes, and Way of the Shadow, too! Heck, where are my Jock, Jester, and Bureaucrat classes?!?



Maybe we should have Sub-Subclasses instead.
Like, why should I be pigeonholed into playing an Eldritch Knight, something that we all can agree is unplayable and restrictive.  I should be able to play an Eldritch Knight of the Four Elements of the College of Swords...which of course would be distinctively different from the Eldritch Knight of the Fist of Zeal...


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> I think we need to have an uncomfortable discussion about "For the Longest Time". And  "Show Me the Way".




I had no idea on For the Longest Time!  It doesn't throw me much because who I pictured as background singers didn't particularly differ from Joel that much.  For the later, the Frampton one or the Styx one?  In either case, I wasn't trying to guess who was doing the backgrounds.



Parmandur said:


> Reading Narnia to my kids now, and while God and religion are central themes, the main point is Lewis working to vindicate his own preferences for fiction over what was considered hip in literary circles at the time. Really obvious now as an adult who has read "Important Literature" and actual Medieval Chivalric Romance. Voyage of the Dawn Treader feels like it could have come straight out of ghe 14th century, in a good way.



It might have been more of making me disappointed in realizing how some people visualized religion working than in the books, but it still makes me cringe at a few scenes.  I reread Dawn Treader a _lot_ over the years.  I've never liked the final volume and that's the one I didn't read to my own child.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> It's also useful to realize Lewis was, religion aside, something of a misanthrope.



Surviving childhood abuse and the trenches of WWI surely aren't recipes for an optimistic view of humanity.


----------



## CleverNickName

"Stop overreacting, goblins aren't real!  This is just a game, people!"
(five minutes later)
"Hey, where is everybody going?  What's the matter, don't you like _fun_?"


----------



## Cadence

A reading from the book of Moldvay, Chapter 5.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Maybe we should have Sub-Subclasses instead.



This, but unironically. It works for the Genie Warlock. Why can't it work for some other subclasses, too. (Obviously not all of them, but IMO, most subclasses should be re-playable without feeling same-y.)


----------



## payn

I find out about the grossest stuff here at EN World. Banana ketchup, mustard flavored soda and chocolate ice cream, NZ style pizza...


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> I find out about the grossest stuff here at EN World. Banana ketchup, mustard flavored soda and chocolate ice cream, NZ style pizza...



Banana ketchup is pretty great...and now I wonder how it would fare on a pizza.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Banana ketchup is pretty great...and now I wonder how it would fare on a pizza.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> I find out about the grossest stuff here at EN World. Banana ketchup, mustard flavored soda and chocolate ice cream, NZ style pizza...



Just think how much worse it would be without Oxford commas.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> Just think how much worse it would be without Oxford commas.


----------



## BookTenTiger

My risk to reward ratio in posting makes me wonder why I keep posting. Maybe time for a break!


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> My risk to reward ratio in posting makes me wonder why I keep posting. Maybe time for a break!



Choosing the battle is a big part of staying healthy.


----------



## Cadence

As if you didn't start the thread for exactly the reaction you're getting.


----------



## Malmuria

Cadence said:


> As if you didn't start the thread for exactly the reaction you're getting.



Right??


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> As if you didn't start the thread for exactly the reaction you're getting.



Isn't there a term for that? Outrage porn? Or is that something else?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Isn't there a term for that? Outrage porn?




Let me google that for you …..

(10 minutes later)

THAT WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!! Do they sell eye bleach?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> A reading from the book of Moldvay, Chapter 5.
> 
> View attachment 150691



When we see Morgan Ironwolf's character sheet earlier in the book, she is Lawful in alignment. What horrible trauma did she suffer to change her alignment to Neutral?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> When we see Morgan Ironwolf's character sheet earlier in the book, she is Lawful in alignment. What horrible trauma did she suffer to change her alignment to Neutral?




 The DM discovered she didn't Like the incredibly witty and entertaining two-line forum post it took him two hours to come with...


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Let me google that for you …..
> 
> (10 minutes later)
> 
> THAT WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!! Do they sell eye bleach?




A long time ago, back before search engines put a lot of safeguards in, I needed to find the typesettting package that was ubiquitous in academia for handing the complex symbols and layout to print higher mathematics.

It was called LaTeX.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Reminds me of the response to the ad for a "Dungeon Master looking to play," who got a lot more than he bargained for in his first response...


----------



## Gradine

There's a podcast called Dungeons & Daddies, and it is explicitly NOT a BDSM podcast


----------



## billd91

General observation: if you can’t talk about something without making a sarcastic aside, maybe you’re the asshat. Who knew?


----------



## Gradine

Well damn, he just went ahead and said it


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

"I constantly complain about there being 3 Arcane Full-Casters in D&D 5e, but suddenly decide that Arcane magic doesn't exist anymore in the 5e rulebooks when you ask for an Arcane Gish class."

How difficult is it to not be a hypocritical cherry-picker? The internet sure makes it seem like it's basically impossible.


----------



## Not a Hobbit

.........


----------



## Cadence

Job 1


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> A long time ago, back before search engines put a lot of safeguards in, I needed to find the typesettting package that was ubiquitous in academia for handing the complex symbols and layout to print higher mathematics.
> 
> It was called LaTeX.



I had the misfortune of doing precisely that same search, while working on an issue for our campus bookstore.


----------



## darjr

I’ve written so very much LaTeX.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I’ve written so very much LaTeX.




Better than the eternal emacs / vi debate.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Better than the eternal emacs / vi debate.



I bet the folks in NZ liked emacs.   (I wonder how many of the commands for vi and mail I still remember.  mail -f mbox and then I've got nothing bubbling near the top).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I bet the folks in NZ liked emacs.   (I wonder how many of the commands for vi and mail I still remember.  mail -f mbox and then I've got nothing bubbling near the top).




HA! New Zealand probably uses pico. Meanwhile, Canada is all like, "Sorry. But isn't ed the standard? I mean, I apologize for mentioning this, but don't we all use ed? Sorry."


----------



## darjr

I’ve also written so very much emacs scheme. But now? I’m a vim cultist. I can’t even remember how to get out of emacs.


----------



## payn

I dont understand the words coming out of your posts.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I dont understand the words coming out of your posts.



Person at LGS one time was on a fairly typical ramble and actually said "words, words, words" in the middle as if they couldn't stop talking but their brain had nothing to add.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Person at LGS one time was on a fairly typical ramble and actually said "words, words, words" in the middle as if they couldn't stop talking but their brain had nothing to add.




Are you sure they weren't quoting Hamlet?


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Are you sure they weren't quoting Hamlet?




OMG.  I'm pretty sure not...  but I think I'll go get a second opinion.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> OMG.  I'm pretty sure not...  but I think I'll go get a second opinion.



You're also lazy...

.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> You're also lazy...
> 
> .




Well, unmotivated anyway.  Not arguable enough to get a second opinion!


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> "I constantly complain about there being 3 Arcane Full-Casters in D&D 5e, but suddenly decide that Arcane magic doesn't exist anymore in the 5e rulebooks when you ask for an Arcane Gish class."
> 
> How difficult is it to not be a hypocritical cherry-picker? The internet sure makes it seem like it's basically impossible.



There is already an Arcane Gish, the Artificer. Though Arcane magic isn't based in the rules in 5E, at all. Not like it was in earlier Editions.

How about an artificer who makes terrifying Eldritch Pizza...?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> There is already an Arcane Gish, the Artificer. Though Arcane magic isn't based in the rules in 5E, at all. Not like it was in earlier Editions.
> 
> How about an artificer who makes terrifying Eldritch Pizza...?




Or worse ... Mystic Pizza.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or worse ... Mystic Pizza.



Oh dear God...psionic pizza??? Now they have gone too far, even for me.


----------



## darjr

My character: don’t eat that! THEY made it!
My characters fellow party member: it’s pizza! How bad cold it be?
MC: OK I warned you! Save me a piece.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> My character: don’t eat that! THEY made it!
> My characters fellow party member: it’s pizza! How bad *cold* it be?
> MC: OK I warned you! Save me a piece.



Mmmm.  Cold pizza.  The breakfast of champions.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Mmmm.  Cold pizza.  The breakfast of champions.



Nut from yhe depths of the unexplored Arctic???

HOW DID IT EVEN GET THERE?!?!?


----------



## RealAlHazred

The only allowable pizza topping is fried green tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe.


----------



## Cadence

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> The only allowable pizza topping is fried green tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe.



Wait, was there pizza in the book?  I don't remember it in the movie.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> Mmmm.  Cold pizza.  The breakfast of champions.



Does anyone cool pizza explicitly for cooling?


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Does anyone cool pizza explicitly for cooling?



If you're trying to ship one a long distance you freeze it?

Anyway, it gets kind of gross if you leave the leftovers out from dinner until dawn...


----------



## Cadence

So, if there is no free will, does that mean we can't blame someone for their posts?  Or does it make it ok to make bad posts a capital offense (since we weren't exercising free will in calling it bad or carrying out the punishment)?

<insert Rush song>


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> If you're trying to ship one a long distance you freeze it?
> 
> Anyway, it gets kind of gross if you leave the leftovers out from dinner until dawn...



Funny story, but when a pizza shop sets up a pizza ready to bake but holds it for a customer its called parbake. My buddy works as a marketer for a pizza chain locally here. The first website they had was sort of janky (years ago). It forced a person to choose a special instruction from alist before submitting an order. One of the things was "parbake". Folks would choose it out of not knowing any better. Well when a half cooked pizza arrived they were none too happy.


----------



## Cadence

Wow, there's some smackdown going on in that thread.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> If you're trying to ship one a long distance you freeze it?




Lou Malnati's does a reasonably good job of this. They ship them packed in dry ice. Not as good as being there in person, but when you're really jonsing it's better than a lot of other options.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> Lou Malnati's does a reasonably good job of this. They ship them packed in dry ice. Not as good as being there in person, but when you're really jonsing it's better than a lot of other options.




I think the only place down here in South Carolina that we have with deep dish at is an Uno's, and we don't have any places with stuffed.  I'm tempted to order a frozen one from Papa Del's in Champ-bana. If we keep talking about it, I might just pull the trigger - or maybe we could try a different place every week once we're back to in person gaming.  (I once brought a batch of frozen ones from where I worked during the school year in college back to the summer camp I was working at.  I don't think the one of those that's left ships).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Wow, there's some smackdown going on in that thread.




Wow. Just saw that.

Both sides look awful, but there's something particularly bad about people who use the internet's anonymity to allow their egos to write checks that their comments can't cash.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Wow. Just saw that.
> 
> Both sides look awful, but there's something particularly bad about people who use the internet's anonymity to allow their egos to write checks that their comments can't cash.




There was an earlier post by someone else that went right for the jugular too.  I wonder if the lockdowns are starting to get to people more and more on here lately, and if things will open up in a month or two (knock on wood).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> There was an earlier post by someone else that went right for the jugular too.  I wonder if the lockdowns are starting to get to people more and more on here lately, and if things will open up in a month or two (knock on wood).




I think that might be at least part of it. I try to be empathetic most of the time; the COVID corollary to "On the internet, no one knows you are a dog," might be, "On the internet, no one knows you are in lockdown and have just lost an elderly family member to COVID and are unsure if you're going to be getting paid next week."

This should be a respite from that stuff.


----------



## payn

I'll just say assuming things about people is what made that other thread a trainwreck. Lets not do that here please.


----------



## BookTenTiger

payn said:


> I'll just say assuming things about people is what made that other thread a trainwreck. Lets not do that here please.



Yeah, any time I see a long post that starts with something like "obviously you think that..." my eyes glaze over and I just skip it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> Yeah, any time I see a long post that starts with something like "obviously you think that..." my eyes glaze over and I just skip it.




Anytime you see "clearly," or "obviously," you should quickly realize that those adverbs are doing a lot of work to paper up a lack of clarity and/or obviousness.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Anytime you see "clearly," or "obviously," you should quickly realize that those adverbs are doing a lot of work to paper up a lack of clarity and/or obviousness.



Clearly you obviously have a good point here.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> Clearly you obviously have a good point here.




I have fewer good points than the communal crayon box of a kindergarten class.


----------



## Cadence

Luckily there's a field of study that grants PhD's that would be happy to help yo... oh never mind.  Your field does everything doable on it's own  ;-)


----------



## Gradine

"I'm just asking questions! Related point, where would like these goalposts? I think they'd look better a bit further back."


----------



## Gradine

"Look, I just think that the world operates by the justification of one of history's greatest atrocities, that's not on me."


----------



## Cadence

And this is the point of the discussion where it feels like one should be able to go:

"And so your <argument>  means that throwing a pop can at you is <no ones fault / no ones responsibility / no ones choice / not able to be proved to have actually happened / not ethically wrong>?"

And when they say yes, it feels like they just gave permission to throw it at them and that they shouldn't be able to legally hold you accountable for taking them up on it.


----------



## payn

I had left over tacos for lunch and didnt even register that is Tuesday.


----------



## CleverNickName

"Being weak sounds uncomfortable.  Have you tried being powerful instead?"
That is certainly...a take.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> I had left over tacos for lunch and didnt even register that is Tuesday.



...it's Wednesday? Or is it still Tuesday in Middle Earth?


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> ...it's Wednesday? Or is it still Tuesday in Middle Earth?



Wow, I need to get out of the house...

I dont know if my meeting tonight(today) with my India team is happening. Is Republic Day yesterday, today, or tomorrow? I dont know anymore...


----------



## Gradine

Hey, I mean, far be it from me to get in the way of making any day a Taco Day


----------



## Galandris

So, this is the thread were people take potshots are other people who don't read it? I'll excuse myself from your company then.


----------



## Gradine

"Now do some homework for me" is the point where I hit the Ignore button


----------



## CleverNickName

Yeah, I pulled the Eject lever also.  It's not my job to educate those unwilling to learn.

There was a little pizzeria right across the street from our dormitory at OSU, and my roommate and I would order pizzas from there every Sunday night (when they had a 2-for-1 special).  We would order the pizzas unsliced, so that when we got back to the dorm we could just fold them up like giant tacos and eat them whole.

Ah, to have a teenage metabolism again...


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Hey, I mean, far be it from me to get in the way of making any day a Taco Day




I guess it's Moe's today instead of Jersey Mike's then...


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Wow, I need to get out of the house...
> 
> I dont know if my meeting tonight(today) with my India team is happening. Is Republic Day yesterday, today, or tomorrow? I dont know anymore...




Every day is tutu Tuesday.


----------



## darjr

Gradine said:


> ...it's Wednesday? Or is it still Tuesday in Middle Earth?



It better be Wednesday, cause Tuesday was CrossFit and I’m not doing that two days in a row. No no no.


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> ...it's Wednesday? Or is it still Tuesday in Middle Earth?



It also means I have 24 hours now to write my annual self review...


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Hey, I mean, far be it from me to get in the way of making any day a Taco Day




I failed in my declared mission..  It was Moe's.  I got a Burrito.  Because it was Moe's.  And I don't feel bad about doing so.  <Repeat last refrain>


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> It better be Wednesday, cause Tuesday was CrossFit and I’m not doing that two days in a row. No no no.



It had better be Wednesday because "Resident Alien" season 2 starts Wednesday.


----------



## Cadence

Omelas Quiz

Select one:
___ Walk away from Omelas
___  Stay and try not to feel guilty
___  Sneak in and free him 
___  Switch places with him


I didn't realize  "____  Stay, and why would I feel guilty?"  was an option.
I guess I should be glad they didn't pick "____  See if a second one doubles it for everyone else".


----------



## darjr

I can't decide? I have no choices.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I failed in my declared mission..  It was Moe's.  I got a Burrito.  Because it was Moe's.  And I don't feel bad about doing so.  <Repeat last refrain>




I was gonna go to Jersey Mikes until I got high
I was gonna get a large Italian sub but then I got high
But now I have a burrito from Moe's and I know why (why man?)

'Cause I got high
Because I got high
Because I got high

I was gonna go teach a class before I got high
I could'a lectured and I could'a
Taught it but I got high (uh uh la la da da)
Instead I'm eating this burrito and I know why (why man?) (hey hey)

'Cause I got high
Because I got high
Because I got high


----------



## Gradine

Now I wish I had tacos instead of frozen burritos for lunch


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> I can't decide? I have no choices.



Free will was determined to be a myth today here at EN World anyways.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Now I wish I had tacos instead of frozen burritos for lunch




Best lunch- three martinis. If feeling really hungry, add the olives.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 'Cause I got high
> Because I got high
> Because I got high




I thought I would have made it abundantly clear by now how absolutely boring I am that no one would ever think that was a possible reason.  

Then again, my MtG group sometimes didn't realize the lack of focus late at night was just old age and wondered...

;-)


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Wow, there's some smackdown going on in that thread.




Folks, I should reiterate - this thread is not a place to put direct side discussion.  If I can tell what thread you are talking about, that's a problem, and will get this thread closed.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Best lunch- three martinis. If feeling really hungry, add the olives.



Pitcher of margaritas works in a pinch too.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I thought I would have made it abundantly clear by now how absolutely boring I am that no one would ever think that was a possible reason.
> 
> Then again, my MtG group sometimes didn't realize the lack of focus late at night was just old age and wondered...
> 
> ;-)




The boring ones are the ones you have to watch out for.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Pitcher of margaritas works in a pinch too.




In a pinch, anything works ....






Note to self- new recipe.

Rusty Bear-
4 parts scotch.
1 part drambuie.
5 liquified gummy bears (masticate if necessary).

Add scotch, Drambuie, and liquified gummy bears into mixing glass with ice and stir until well-chilled.

Strain into rocks glass over one large ice cube. 

Garnish with 3 gummy bears.

Note- use sugar free gummy bears at own peril.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In a pinch, anything works ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note to self- new recipe.
> 
> Rusty Bear-
> 4 parts scotch.
> 1 part drambuie.
> 5 liquified gummy bears (masticate if necessary).
> 
> Add scotch, Drambuie, and liquified gummy bears into mixing glass with ice and stir until well-chilled.
> 
> Strain into rocks glass over one large ice cube.
> 
> Garnish with 3 gummy bears.
> 
> Note- use sugar free gummy bears at own peril.



Oh, you had me until Drambuie. Only cough medicine should taste like cough medicine.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Omelas Quiz
> 
> Select one:
> ___ Walk away from Omelas
> ___  Stay and try not to feel guilty
> ___  Sneak in and free him
> ___  Switch places with him
> 
> 
> I didn't realize  "____  Stay, and why would I feel guilty?"  was an option.
> I guess I should be glad they didn't pick "____  See if a second one doubles it for everyone else".



Where is my option of "___ Why is everyone else getting the benefits? It should just be me! Let's add a bunch more people!"


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Wait, was there pizza in the book?  I don't remember it in the movie.



There was not, but a man can dream.


----------



## CleverNickName

Not sure if it's copasetic to comment on a locked thread, so I'll shrink-wrap it.


Spoiler



Reading back over some surveys I posted from early 2020, when the lockdown was brand new and we hadn't worked out the details for gaming remotely and I was waxing nostalgic for how things used to be.  I love reading about other peoples' experiences of the different editions of D&D, and sharing their memories of when they just started playing.  Especially on days like today, when I'm feeling melancholy and pensive.

It's a shame that one of the editions got derailed and then locked...it was such a good opportunity to share fond memories of a game that doesn't seem to have its fair share.  Even today, almost 2 years later, people are still voting and commenting on the other editions of the game (the 3rd Edition survey is currently enjoying some new contributions), but not that one.  Alas.


----------



## Cadence

I will not swear at people, I will not...

So, how do humans in the Pokemon universe dispose of dead bodies?  Is there a Pokemon that helps the bodies decay?  Do they cremate?


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> I will not swear at people, I will not...
> 
> So, how do humans in the Pokemon universe dispose of dead bodies?  Is there a Pokemon that helps the bodies decay?  Do they cremate?



Just "transfer" the body to Professor Willow. 
He'll take care of the rest.


----------



## dragoner

It seems exciting at first, then again not.


----------



## darjr

Egad! That is better.


----------



## darjr

Oh we made the pizza.

it was vile.

I only ate four slices.


----------



## payn

In a thread hole at the moment. You know, when the current hot topics have passed their expiration dates and you are ready for a new set. Though, cant think of anything to bring up either.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> In a thread hole at the moment. You know, when the current hot topics have passed their expiration dates and you are ready for a new set. Though, cant think of anything to bring up either.











						What are your (up to) five favorite tunes?
					

Another post got me thinking about music, and when different songs came out....  So currently, what are your (up to) five favorite songs/tunes/singles of all time?   Please list the year with each (I needed google).  No honorable mentions, no albums, no just groups - it's supposed to be hard...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## darjr

Don’t worry. WorC has a brand new media guy who starts TODAY.


----------



## Mannahnin

Deset Gled said:


> Lou Malnati's does a reasonably good job of this. They ship them packed in dry ice. Not as good as being there in person, but when you're really jonsing it's better than a lot of other options.



I've been tempted by this a number of times but have never yet pulled the trigger.  I used to get their pizza every year when I was in Chicago for Adepticon, but I haven't been in a few years.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ooof. That thread certainly _evolved _over the course of the night.


----------



## Gradine

Gradine said:


> "Now do some homework for me" is the point where I hit the Ignore button


----------



## CleverNickName

"But you haven't explained it thoroughly _enough_ yet.
I want you to _explain it to my satisfaction."_


----------



## Cadence

So, what's most egregious...

Loving Ketchup on Hotdogs
Loving Pineapple on Pizza
Hating U2
Hating Watchmen (the comic)
Really letting lose in a thread when you're fed up?


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> So, what's most egregious...
> 
> Loving Ketchup on Hotdogs
> Loving Pineapple on Pizza
> Hating U2
> Hating Watchmen (the comic)
> Really letting lose in a thread when you're fed up?



...
What the heck is odd about ketchup on a hot dog? That's hiw they are normally...?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> So, what's most egregious...
> 
> Loving Ketchup on Hotdogs
> Loving Pineapple on Pizza
> Hating U2
> Hating Watchmen (the comic)
> Really letting lose in a thread when you're fed up?



Loving bards, which I do.


----------



## billd91

Parmandur said:


> ...
> What the heck is odd about ketchup on a hot dog? That's hiw they are normally...?



Ketchup, and its alias catsup, is the condiment of sadness knowing that you could truly have had a better hot dog by putting mustard on it instead.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> ...
> What the heck is odd about ketchup on a hot dog? That's hiw they are normally...?




I think legendary columnist Mike Royko said it best, if anyone wanted to put ketchup on their hot dog, they would have the right to do so, but "It is also their right to put mayo or chocolate syrup or toenail clippings or cat hair on a hot dog. Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians" (via Chicago PBS affiliate WTTW via mashed.com)


----------



## Deset Gled

Mannahnin said:


> I've been tempted by this a number of times but have never yet pulled the trigger.  I used to get their pizza every year when I was in Chicago for Adepticon, but I haven't been in a few years.




I recommend it when you can afford it.  Also, make sure you can eat or store it all at once; it takes up more space (in your belly or freezer) than you think.  The hot dog kit also does a good job, but is even more of an excessive charge if you think too much about it.


----------



## J.Quondam

My disdain of ketchup was emphasized long ago when my car ended up spattered with gallons of the stuff in an unfortunate incident in a fast food parking lot. The stench of the stuff all through the hot summer  was utterly and irrevocably revolting.

To this day, I just... can't.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Loving bards, which I do.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Parmandur

billd91 said:


> Ketchup, and its alias catsup, is the condiment of sadness knowing that you could truly have had a better hot dog by putting mustard on it instead.



...

Both at the same time is the normal way to eat a hot dog. It's hardly a one or the other situation.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> I think legendary columnist Mike Royko said it best, if anyone wanted to put ketchup on their hot dog, they would have the right to do so, but "It is also their right to put mayo or chocolate syrup or toenail clippings or cat hair on a hot dog. Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians" (via Chicago PBS affiliate WTTW via mashed.com)



I mean, hot dogs are kinda gross with any condiments. Why would anyone voluntarily eat a Frankfurter when Bratwurst exists?


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> ...
> 
> Both at the same time is the normal way to eat a hot dog. It's hardly a one or the other situation.





But seriously, how do people not know the official rules of hot dog ettiquette:




__





						Hot Dog Etiquette | NHDSC
					

Everyday Guidance for Eating America's Sacred Food  The National Hot Dog and Sausage Council includes a full guide for etiquette in an online video, but here are just a few tips and tricks.   Full Guide for Etiquette      Don't...  Put hot dog toppings between the hot dog and the bun. Always...




					www.hot-dog.org


----------



## darjr

I dint understand


----------



## CleverNickName

Ketchup is probably the most overused and overrated condiment in America.  It immediately transforms any food--any at all--to its least-impressive, most basic form.

Hot dog with mustard?





Hot dog with ketchup?





Hot dog with both mustard and ketchup?





Hot dog with chili, cheese, mustard, onions, and ketchup on a poppyseed bun?





Gourmet all-beef hot dog with green chili, garlic aioli, brioche bun, caramelized onions, and organic tomato-balsamic ketchup?


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> But seriously, how do people not know the official rules of hot dog ettiquette:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hot Dog Etiquette | NHDSC
> 
> 
> Everyday Guidance for Eating America's Sacred Food  The National Hot Dog and Sausage Council includes a full guide for etiquette in an online video, but here are just a few tips and tricks.   Full Guide for Etiquette      Don't...  Put hot dog toppings between the hot dog and the bun. Always...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hot-dog.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 150812



Honest to God not kidding around, never seen anyone object to ketchup on a hot dog.

Now ketchup on Mac and cheese is an atrocity.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I dint understand



You can certainly try. I'll need you to make a Wisdom check, with disadvantage.


----------



## Malmuria

At least it's not mayonnaise, which is the grossest food ever invented.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Honest you God not kidding around, never seen anyone object to ketchup on a hot dog.




Dirty Harry...


President Obama...








						President Obama vetoes ketchup on hot dogs
					

President Obama appeared Sunday night on CNN, and chef and author Anthony Bourdain asked him a question that he described as fraught with peril: Is ketchup acceptable on a hot dog? “It’s not acceptable past the age of 8,” answered the president, re-igniting one of the hottest debates at the...




					www.today.com
				




I mean seriously, this is not a secret!  



Parmandur said:


> Now ketchup on Mac and cheese is an atrocity.



I wouldn't do it, because Ketchup only goes on burgers (and only if you don't have any pimento cheese), but


----------



## Gradine

billd91 said:


> Ketchup, and its alias catsup, is the condiment of sadness knowing that you could truly have had a better hot dog by putting mustard on it instead.



Now here's the thing. A sad little grocery store hot dog, that you've tossed in the microwave? Sure, throw some ketchup on that (especially when combined with boxed Mac n' cheese). A real, serious sausage though? Mustard and onions are it. _*Maybe*_ some pickle relish, if you're feeling frisky.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> You can certainly try. I'll need you to make a Wisdom check, with disadvantage.



You know I can’t make that check.


----------



## Gradine

Chili dogs! I can't believe I forgot chili dogs. Those are amazing too, though I question why you'd put any condiments on one. Hot sauce, I guess?


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Now here's the thing. A sad little grocery store hot dog, that you've tossed in the microwave? Sure, throw some ketchup on that (especially when combined with boxed Mac n' cheese). A real, serious sausage though? Mustard and onions are it. _*Maybe*_ some pickle relish, if you're feeling frisky.




I mean even for a McDonald's "hamburger" doesn't call for chocolate sauce, and a Taco Bell "taco" doesn't call for mustard and pickle relish.   

And microwaved hot dog!?!?  Who does that to even a store brand?   Don't you have a gas burner and a fork?  Or even a pot of boiling water?


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Chili dogs! I can't believe I forgot chili dogs. Those are amazing too, though I question why you'd put any condiments on one. Hot sauce, I guess?




Mustard and onions seem traditional with the chili.  Although a lot of places seem like they can't tell the difference between overly ground sloppy joe and chili.


----------



## billd91

Parmandur said:


> Honest to God not kidding around, never seen anyone object to ketchup on a hot dog.



Oh, you poor summer child. I remember winter offensive of aught-two. We had to burn our underwear to keep warm, it was so cold. The defenders of mustard honor, bolstered by the ROTC program at Poupon University, fought off the hordes of Heinz at the Battle of Mount Horeb. I can still remember the fight song of the brave souls from Poupon U:

On our hot dogs, on our bratwurst,
Mustard is so cool.
Never mayo, never ketchup
They’re against the rules.
Gleaming gold and mellow yellow,
Smooth, rough, sweet and hot,
Fight, POUPON U, we’ll fight
and eat some lunch.

In the end, we held the line. Heinz couldn't cut the mustard.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Mustard and onions seem traditional with the chili.  Although a lot of place seem like they can't tell the difference between overly ground sloppy joe and chili.



Onions sure, but that's a topping, not a condiment. I enjoy a wide range of mustards, and none I can think of would go well with chili. One of the local restaurants defaults to mayo and ketchup, which is sacrilege

Microwave hot Dogs are a lifeline when you've got kids


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I mean even for a McDonald's "hamburger" doesn't call for chocolate sauce, and a Taco Bell "taco" doesn't call for mustard and pickle relish.
> 
> And microwaved hot dog!?!?  Who does that to even a store brand?   Don't you have a gas burner and a fork?  Or even a pot of boiling water?




Arguing over the best toppings for a hot dog is akin to a heated debate about the proper deployment of Cheez Whiz.

....I can understand that there might be a dispute, but I fail to understand what depths of the human condition occurred that made the dispute necessary.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Mustard and onions seem traditional with the chili.  Although a lot of place seem like they can't tell the difference between overly ground sloppy joe and chili.



I had baked beans and coleslaw on a hot dog once. I hate to admit that I liked it.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Dirty Harry...
> 
> 
> President Obama...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Obama vetoes ketchup on hot dogs
> 
> 
> President Obama appeared Sunday night on CNN, and chef and author Anthony Bourdain asked him a question that he described as fraught with peril: Is ketchup acceptable on a hot dog? “It’s not acceptable past the age of 8,” answered the president, re-igniting one of the hottest debates at the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.today.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean seriously, this is not a secret!
> 
> 
> I wouldn't do it, because Ketchup only goes on burgers (and only if you don't have any pimento cheese), but
> 
> View attachment 150813



I mean, if one is terrible at making Mac and cheese, like sub-Kraft levels?


----------



## J.Quondam

Possibly even worse than ketchup is the word "moistness".
_* shudder *_


----------



## Parmandur

Mayonnaise is for French Fries and cold cuts.


----------



## billd91

Gradine said:


> Now here's the thing. A sad little grocery store hot dog, that you've tossed in the microwave? Sure, throw some ketchup on that (especially when combined with boxed Mac n' cheese). A real, serious sausage though? Mustard and onions are it. _*Maybe*_ some pickle relish, if you're feeling frisky.



I'll happily microwave a hot dog for my kids but I swear a piece of me dies whenever they put ketchup on it. But I still love them because I know their brains aren't fully formed yet and they are incapable of making properly informed, moral choices.


----------



## Parmandur

billd91 said:


> I'll happily microwave a hot dog for my kids but I swear a piece of me dies whenever they put ketchup on it. But I still love them because I know their brains aren't fully formed yet and they are incapable of making properly informed, moral choices.



I mean, easy enough solution, don't have ketchup on hand. I would eat ketchup on approximately anything, but it's easy enough to leave out. I also only keep hot dogs around to microwave for kids, can't stand the things boiled and grilling isn't currently a realistic options.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Arguing over the best toppings for a hot dog is akin to a heated debate about the proper deployment of Cheez Whiz.
> 
> ....I can understand that there might be a dispute, but I fail to understand what depths of the human condition occurred that made the dispute necessary.




You take that back right now!  You're a monster.  No, you're a pineapple on pizza loving bard.


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Onions sure, but that's a topping, not a condiment. I enjoy a wide range of mustards, and none I can think of would go well with chili. One of the local restaurants defaults to mayo and ketchup, which is sacrilege
> 
> Microwave hot Dogs are a lifeline when you've got kids




Sure, there's an age before we enforce hot dog etiquette, even with ketchup.


----------



## Parmandur

Behold,  ye mighty, and despair:









						Banana Ketchup Hot Dog Pizza
					






					www.eatbanza.com


----------



## payn

I dont have a microwave.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Behold,  ye mighty, and despair:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Banana Ketchup Hot Dog Pizza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eatbanza.com


----------



## Malmuria

I don't think ketchup is overrated.  It is properly rated.  It's a basic but reliable condiment that goes well with certain foods, like french fries or grilled cheese.  It works well with many different hot sauces.  There is a consensus that you would not put ketchup on a steak, unless you are a monster.


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> I don't think ketchup is overrated.  It is properly rated.  It's a basic but reliable condiment that goes well with certain foods, like french fries or *grilled cheese*.


----------



## Parmandur

Malmuria said:


> I don't think ketchup is overrated.  It is properly rated.  It's a basic but reliable condiment that goes well with certain foods, like french fries or grilled cheese.  It works well with many different hot sauces.  There is a consensus that you would not put ketchup on a steak, unless you are a monster.



Wait, what, grilled cheese??


----------



## Parmandur

I must say, I've found a splash of Sriracha adequately replaces what I used to get from ketchup.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> You take that back right now!  You're a monster.  No, you're a pineapple on pizza loving bard.




I'm you......

I'm me......


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm you......
> 
> I'm me......







Apologies for this one... but he's made me so mad I googled without thinking!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> .............


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


>





"Chicago dogs belong in the same conversation as Notre Dame football, the British monarchy, the Nick Castellanos copypasta, the Grateful Dead, the ending to The Sopranos and the Illinois governorship-to-jail pipeline as traditions that no matter how much they falter are too storied to ever fade out of history."  (From: God save the Queen: Ketchup does not belong on hot dogs // The Observer )


----------



## Cadence

Hey, @Snarf Zagyg .   Is a pop-tart a ravioli?

You know what, it doesn't matter.  Ketchup doesn't go on hotdogs!!

But I'm still curious.  Is it?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "Chicago dogs belong in the same conversation as Notre Dame football, the British monarchy, the Nick Castellanos copypasta, the Grateful Dead, the ending to The Sopranos and the Illinois governorship-to-jail pipeline as traditions that no matter how much they falter are too storied to ever fade out of history."  (From*: **God save the Queen: Ketchup does not belong on hot dogs *// The Observer )




God save the queen
The hot dog regime
Hot dogs made you a moron
A giant sodium bomb

God save the queen
Hot dogs aren't fit for human beings
and mustard has no future
And Chicago's dreaming

Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need
Mustard has no future
No future
No future for hot dogs


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Hey, @Snarf Zagyg .   Is a pop-tart a ravioli?
> 
> You know what, it doesn't matter.  Ketchup doesn't go on hotdogs!!
> 
> But I'm still curious.  Is it?



I mean, this feels like objecting to Pepperoni on Pizza?


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> I mean, this feels like objecting to Pepperoni on Pizza?



Yeah, kinda.  It's not a crime or anything, it's just...


----------



## darjr

Is this thing broke ?


----------



## Malmuria

Parmandur said:


> Wait, what, grilled cheese??



try it!


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> Yeah, kinda.  It's not a crime or anything, it's just...


----------



## Parmandur

Malmuria said:


> try it!



Fair point.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> I mean, this feels like objecting to Pepperoni on Pizza?




What kind of monster would do that*!?!?!?  I mean they probably even make vegan faux-roni if that's the issue.   What is wrong with people!

*Object that it is a perfectly acceptable topping for Pizza, bless it's name, that is.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> What kind of monster would do that*!?!?!?  I mean they probably even make vegan faux-roni if that's the issue.   What is wrong with people!
> 
> *Object that it is a perfectly acceptable topping for Pizza, bless it's name, that is.



Actually, the pea paste Pepperoni is pretty delicious on a pizza.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Hey, @Snarf Zagyg .   Is a pop-tart a ravioli?




Pop-tarts are not raviolis.

Nor are they in the pastry group.

They are, in fact, in the Collegiate food group, along with instant ramen, boxed macaroni and cheese, breakfast cereal, and microwave popcorn.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> God save the queen
> The hot dog regime
> Hot dogs made you a moron
> A giant sodium bomb
> 
> God save the queen
> Hot dogs aren't fit for human beings
> and mustard has no future
> And Chicago's dreaming
> 
> Don't be told what you want
> Don't be told what you need
> Mustard has no future
> No future
> No future for hot dogs



Everything about you screams bard.

There.  I said it.

Where the hell is the mushroom cloud emoji.

Mmmmm.  Mushrooms.


----------



## Malmuria

Edit: venting over
I just don't like "mayonnaise" I guess


----------



## CleverNickName

(probably never, unless you do it on another website besides ENWorld.)


----------



## Cadence

Malmuria said:


> (When should I point out that...)




Post #1852 might be helpful.









						The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread
					

I will not swear at people, I will not...  So, how do humans in the Pokemon universe dispose of dead bodies?  Is there a Pokemon that helps the bodies decay?  Do they cremate?  Just "transfer" the body to Professor Willow.  He'll take care of the rest.




					www.enworld.org


----------



## Cadence

A friend elsewhere raised a good question that I don't know the answer to.   Ketchup on corndogs?  But that makes me want to ask "corndogs!?!?".  

So:
a) Corndogs!?!?!
b) If (a) is ok, ketchup on corndogs?






						Todd v. Dave: Ketchup on a Corndog? – Todd Flora's America
					






					www.toddflora.com


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> A friend elsewhere raised a good question that I don't know the answer to.   Ketchup on corndogs?  But that makes me want to ask "corndogs!?!?".
> 
> So:
> a) Corndogs!?!?!
> b) If (a) is ok, ketchup on corndogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todd v. Dave: Ketchup on a Corndog? – Todd Flora's America
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.toddflora.com



Depends on classic corndog or pronto pup?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Depends on classic corndog or pronto pup?




Why does the Minnesota lottery have a page about this!?!?









						Minnesota Lottery
					

The Minnesota Lottery features scratch tickets and Lotto Games such as Powerball, Lotto America, Lucky for Life, Gopher 5, Northstar Cash, Mega Millions, Daily 3, and Progressive Print-and-play. The Minnesota State Lottery also hosts events and contests.




					www.mnlottery.com


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Why does the Minnesota lottery have a page about this!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minnesota Lottery
> 
> 
> The Minnesota Lottery features scratch tickets and Lotto Games such as Powerball, Lotto America, Lucky for Life, Gopher 5, Northstar Cash, Mega Millions, Daily 3, and Progressive Print-and-play. The Minnesota State Lottery also hosts events and contests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mnlottery.com



Its best to just do Minnesota and not ask questions. I mean, meat raffles are the weirdest things, but they happen at alarming frequency here.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Parmandur said:


> Honest to God not kidding around, never seen anyone object to ketchup on a hot dog.
> 
> Now ketchup on Mac and cheese is an atrocity.



A certain family member of mine, who shall remain nameless, has the strangest pallet I've ever seen. They regularly eat rice (white rice) with _ranch _on it, and nothing else. And just straight-up drinks ketchup regularly. 

It's so disgusting, it makes me want to vomit just thinking about it.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> A friend elsewhere raised a good question that I don't know the answer to.   Ketchup on corndogs?  But that makes me want to ask "corndogs!?!?".
> 
> So:
> a) Corndogs!?!?!
> b) If (a) is ok, ketchup on corndogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todd v. Dave: Ketchup on a Corndog? – Todd Flora's America
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.toddflora.com



Sure, along with mustard.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> A certain family member of mine, who shall remain nameless, has the strangest pallet I've ever seen. They regularly eat rice (white rice) with _ranch _on it, and nothing else. And just straight-up drinks ketchup regularly.
> 
> It's so disgusting, it makes me want to vomit just thinking about it.



I mean, Ranch goes on anything, so that's normal. When I eat at a fast food restaurant, I tend to get 6 or so little paper tubs of ketchup, just for my fries.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> I mean, Ranch goes on anything, so that's normal. When I eat at a fast food restaurant, I tend to get 6 or so little paper tubs of ketchup, just for my fries.




It feels like ranch doesn't go on sushi.  What purpose does sushi have it isn't to deliver wasab (applied like frosting on a cupcake)?

... On second thought, how is wasabi with ranch?


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> It feels like ranch doesn't go on sushi.  What purpose does sushi have it isn't to deliver wasab (applied like frosting on a cupcake).
> 
> ... On second thought, how is wasabi with ranch?



Nothing goes with Sushi.

Wasabi with ranch actually sounds decent. Slap it on a pizza and find out.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> It feels like ranch doesn't go on sushi.  What purpose does sushi have it isn't to deliver wasab (applied like frosting on a cupcake)?
> 
> ... On second thought, how is wasabi with ranch?



Never tried it, but it's apparently a thing?


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> Never tried it, but it's apparently a thing?
> 
> View attachment 150824



Fantastic!


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Nothing goes with Sushi.




As in, you like it plain?  Or as in you make me think you don't use enough wasabi?



Parmandur said:


> Wasabi with ranch actually sounds decent. Slap it on a pizza and find out.



Maybe not pizza...


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> As in, you like it plain?  Or as in you make me think you don't use enough wasabi?
> 
> 
> Maybe not pizza...



As in I would not, could not, eat sushi under approximately any circumstances if it can be avoided.


----------



## darjr

Yup. Broke.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> As in I would not, could not, eat sushi under approximately any circumstances if it can be avoided.



I usually get the vegetarian california roll.  No point on anything expensive when it's mostly only going to be texture supporting the wasabi layer...


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> A certain family member of mine, who shall remain nameless, has the strangest pallet I've ever seen. They regularly eat rice (white rice) with _ranch _on it, and nothing else. And just straight-up drinks ketchup regularly.
> 
> It's so disgusting, it makes me want to vomit just thinking about it.


----------



## Umbran

Totally the new Hive.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> I usually get the vegetarian california roll.  No point on anything expensive when it's mostly only going to be texture supporting the wasabi layer...



I mean, it has less to do with taste and more that all Sushi is bathed in allergens. I'm not sure soy free sushi would really work, but soy does...dark things...to my digestion.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Totally the new Hive.




So you haven't cracked the code yet and figured out which thread each of the different ketchup posts is commenting on?


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> So you haven't cracked the code yet and figured out which thread each of the different ketchup posts is commenting on?



I figured part of the point the inanity is to provide cover for the vents, so they get lost in the noise, like ketchup on pizza sauce.


----------



## CleverNickName

My usual sushi order:

6 pieces of mackerel nigiri
2 pieces yellowfin nigiri
1 tuna maki roll
Reminding people that harm isn't always visible
Miso soup


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Nothing goes with Sushi.
> 
> Wasabi with ranch actually sounds decent. Slap it on a pizza and find out.




BEHOLD! Sushi pizza.


----------



## Gradine

Parmandur said:


> Wait, what, grilled cheese??



I mean, I dip mine in tomato soup. It's not the wildest thing I've seen


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> So you haven't cracked the code yet and figured out which thread each of the different ketchup posts is commenting on?




Either that, or I have, and find it sufficently complex for the purposes at hand.  

If and when the Ketchup-ENigma machine becomes available, however, you may hear from me.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> BEHOLD! Sushi pizza.



Nope, too far. Anchovies si, sushi non.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> I mean, I dip mine in tomato soup. It's not the wildest thing I've seen



Hmm, interesting. Not that fond of tomatoes soup, myself, but good point.


----------



## Gradine

Sushi isn't an every day good, but it _is_ the best food. For more than just delivering Wasabi (though that helps!)


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Sushi isn't an every day good, but it _is_ the best food. For more than just delivering Wasabi (though that helps!)



How can you say that sushi is the best food when we ha e literally been discussing pizza??

My wife's a big fan, but it isn't worth the physical suffering for me, unlike chocolate.


----------



## Malmuria

Some of the best dining experiences I've had have been a mid to high tier sushi restaurants, sitting in front of the chef.  Some of the worst have been getting some sushi rolls from trader joes for a quick lunch.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> How can you say that sushi is the best food when we ha e literally been discussing pizza??
> 
> My wife's a big fan, but it isn't worth the physical suffering for me, unlike chocolate.



You ruined pizza for everyone by insisting on adding ketchup.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Sushi isn't an every day good, but it _is_ the best food. For more than just delivering Wasabi (though that helps!)




Best food is good bibimbap.

I could eat that every day.

Or maybe just take the gochujang intravenously.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> You ruined pizza for everyone by insisting on adding ketchup.



I mean, it already has tomatoe sauce


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Best food is good bibimbap.
> 
> I could eat that every day.
> 
> Or maybe just take the gochujang intravenously.



Easy to make, too, and that at least can be made with a good kelp sauce as a substitute.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> I mean, it already has tomatoe sauce



Pizza sauce is a delicious blend of tomato and herbs. Ketchup is processed sugar flavored as tomato.


----------



## Cadence

Are there certain recurrent topics that could use an "EN state of the art summary" to kick them off.

So, for example - if it were Pizza - maybe we would have something summarizing past debates on Pineapple and Fish on Pizza, links to the few key sites / past posts, and a quick summary of what the mod rulings were?

And maybe something to put in the thread title of those (a file folder?  a fire? a "Read First" sign?) that notified people that they should probably read the background before jumping in.

If nothing else, it would spare the Snarf analog from having to re-explain the basics of the arguments and the harm done to him by having to repeat the labor ad nauseum of laying the case out?


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Pizza sauce is a delicious blend of tomato and herbs. Ketchup is processed sugar flavored as tomato.



I mean, ketchup has herbs (seriously, look st the ingredients), and a lot of pizza sauces are going to have processed sugar. Just parts of the same spectrum.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Are there certain recurrent topics that could use an "EN state of the art summary" to kick them off.
> 
> So, for example - if it were Pizza - maybe we would have something summarizing past debates on Pineapple and Fish on Pizza, links to the few key sites / past posts, and a quick summary of what the mod rulings were?
> 
> And maybe something to put in the thread title of those (a file folder?  a fire? a "Read First" sign?) that notified people that they should probably read the background before jumping in.
> 
> If nothing else, it would spare the Snarf analog from having to re-explain the basics of the arguments and the harm done to him by having to repeat the labor ad nauseum of laying the case out?



Sort of a body of D&D discussion Common Law...?

Sounds like a lot of work.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> I mean, ketchup has herbs (seriously, look st the ingredients), and a lot of pizza sauces are going to have processed sugar. Just parts of the same spectrum.



You do you, but ketchup has often 5X as much, if not more, sugar as pizza sauce. They don't taste anything alike.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> You do you, but ketchup has often 5X as much, if not more, sugar as pizza sauce. They don't taste anything alike.



Not so much if you make your own, or the other direction if you buy the wrong spaghetti sauce.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Sort of a body of D&D discussion Common Law...?
> 
> Sounds like a lot of work.




I'm thinking of some of the particularly thorny ones - that are often thorny because they aren't arguing much about the toppings and crusts and cheeses, but get more into the pizza maker, pizza server, and pizza eater and how the choices of restaurant decor tie into non-pizza IRL things and make it an unpleasant experience for some eaters.  Or how slight changes might alleviate that, and why we should all worry that our pizzerias are welcoming.

I certainly wouldn't want to do one about NY vs. Chicago vs Detroit pizza and their merits, and which one sold out or not, and which one is untrue to its roots, and which one could just as well be a burrito stand.


----------



## darjr

You didn't?!


----------



## J.Quondam

The solution:



It's on cooks.com, so it's legit.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Best food is good bibimbap.
> 
> I could eat that every day.



...

Okay, bibimbap AND THEN sushi


Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or maybe just take the gochujang intravenously.



Don't threaten me with a good time


----------



## CleverNickName

Has there ever been a "D&D Memes" thread on EN World?  Is that something folks might enjoy?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> If nothing else, it would spare the Snarf analog from having to re-explain the basics of the arguments and the harm done to him by having to repeat the labor ad nauseum of laying the case out?




There is no Snarf analog.

I HAVE GONE DIGITAL!!!!!!!


----------



## Parmandur

J.Quondam said:


> The solution:
> 
> View attachment 150832
> 
> It's on cooks.com, so it's legit.



I mean. They will eat English Muffins, hot dogs, ketchup, and cheese. Thisnmight just work.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is no Snarf analog.
> 
> I HAVE GONE DIGITAL!!!!!!!


----------



## Cadence

So, getting to the meat of it?

Those cows in the chicken place ads pushing people to eat chicken get too much weight in the conversation, it's just a handful out of all the cows in the universe (aka an anecdote and not data).  Just check with some of the staff/product at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe and we have a very strong opposing view the other way.

Same for that "heart rending" scene in Babe about the cat.  I mean, have you seen all of the smiling pigs getting ready to eat pork on the BBQ joint signs in the US south east?

Anyway, white meat or beef or the other white meat.  You don't have to watch what I'm eating in my kitchen (and carbon footprint is such a derail!).  And it's not like I'm not sympathetic to the discussion - I'm certainly not supporting eating horses, for example!  It's just important that we use good arguments and have strong evidence in these discussions or pretty soon we won't be eating anything.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is no Snarf analog.
> 
> I HAVE GONE DIGITAL!!!!!!!




I've always loved the fact that Max Headroom was fake CGI.  There's a poetic aspect to them having to imitate an imitation to get it to come out right.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> So, getting to the meat of it.
> 
> Those cows in the chicken place ads pushing people to eat chicken get too much weight in the conversation, it's just a handful out of all the cows in the universe (aka an anecdote and not data).  Just check with some of the staff/product at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe and we have a very strong opposing view the other way.
> 
> Same for that "heart rending" seen in Babe about the cat.  I mean, have you seen all of the smiling pigs getting ready to eat pork on the BBQ joint signs in the US south east?
> 
> Anyway, white meat or beef or the other white meat.  You don't have to watch what I'm eating in my kitchen (and carbon footprint is such a derail!).  And it's not like I'm not sympathetic to the discussion - I'm certainly not supporting eating horses, for example!  It's just important that we use good arguments and have strong evidence in these discussions or pretty soon we won't be eating anything.
> 
> View attachment 150866View attachment 150867View attachment 150868View attachment 150869



What about breakfast cereal cannibalism?


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> I've always loved the fact that Max Headroom was fake CGI.  There's a poetic aspect to them having to imitate an imitation to get it to come out right.



In junior year of HS, for the big problem sets in trig&analyt a group of us would get together to watch his ABC series and Moonlighting while we worked on them. 

I wonder if either one has aged well?


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> In junior year of HS, for the big problem sets a group of us would get together to watch his ABC series and Moonlighting while we worked on them.
> 
> I wonder if either one has aged well?



Pretty sure Max Headroom is still good; though of course with quasi-cyberpunk sci-fi about the near future, they're always going to be adorably wrong on some stuff, confusingly wrong about other things.


----------



## Mannahnin

billd91 said:


> Ketchup, and its alias catsup, is the condiment of sadness knowing that you could truly have had a better hot dog by putting mustard on it instead.



INSTEAD?!  Let's be clear, even when I am eating a hot dog (or related sausage) outside the boundaries of Greater Chicagoland and choose to put a little ketchup on it, that is always as an ACCOMPANIMENT to the mandatory mustard.  Naturally, while within the said geographic locale I always adhere to the regional custom and enjoy a proper Chicago dog, with mustard, relish, onion, pickle, tomato, sport peppers, and celery salt.



Deset Gled said:


> I recommend it when you can afford it.  Also, make sure you can eat or store it all at once; it takes up more space (in your belly or freezer) than you think.  The hot dog kit also does a good job, but is even more of an excessive charge if you think too much about it.



For Chicago dogs I'm more of a Portillo's guy.  But yeah, one of these days I'm going to order a couple of Lou Malnati's pies shipped.



Cadence said:


> A friend elsewhere raised a good question that I don't know the answer to.   Ketchup on corndogs?  But that makes me want to ask "corndogs!?!?".
> 
> So:
> a) Corndogs!?!?!
> b) If (a) is ok, ketchup on corndogs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todd v. Dave: Ketchup on a Corndog? – Todd Flora's America
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.toddflora.com



Mustard.  Corndogs are already too sweet.



Cadence said:


> It feels like ranch doesn't go on sushi.  What purpose does sushi have it isn't to deliver wasab (applied like frosting on a cupcake)?
> 
> ... On second thought, how is wasabi with ranch?



As noted, wasabi ranch is already a thing.  I tried some crunchy wasabi ranch snap peas recently and they were pretty good, despite the faint tang of awful ranch coming through.  Personally I find creamy dressings abominable, but there is definitely some synergy with the two flavors.









						Harvest Snaps Green Pea Snack Crisps Wasabi Ranch - 3.3oz
					

Read reviews and buy Harvest Snaps Green Pea Snack Crisps Wasabi Ranch - 3.3oz at Target. Choose from contactless Same Day Delivery, Drive Up and more.




					www.target.com


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> As noted, wasabi ranch is already a thing.  I tried some crunchy wasabi ranch snap peas recently and they were pretty good, despite the faint tang of awful ranch coming through.  Personally I find creamy dressings abominable, but there is definitely some synergy with the two flavors.




Is it that there is any actual synergy ....


....or is there just further, sad, evidence of the continued ranch-ification of America's taste buds? Much like a fungus or a parasite, the taste of ranch grows on you.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Is it that there is any actual synergy ....
> 
> 
> ....or is there just further, sad, evidence of the continued ranch-ification of America's taste buds? Much like a fungus or a parasite, the taste of ranch grows on you.



This is a frightening theory, although I assure you that I would sooner kick Aubrey Plaza in the shins than eat ranch dressing.  

Perhaps I am mistaken, and rather than synergy it is the dry format and the wasabi flavor doing a lot of work to offset and conceal the true awfulness of the ranch.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Malcolm Gladwell has an interesting article called the Ketchup Conundrum. Essentially, he asks why mustard has had such a revolution in textures and flavors, but ketchup just stays as ketchup.

It's been a while since I read it, but he basically argued that ketchup already had the revolution. It used to be a pretty basic watery bitter condiment, and then it transformed into the perfect blend of sweet-savory-sour that it is today.

I'm a ketchup fan and I don't care who knows! It is the perfect condiment. That, and avocado, go on everything (I am a Californian through and through).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> This is a frightening theory, although I assure you that I would sooner kick Aubrey Plaza in the shins than eat ranch dressing.
> 
> Perhaps I am mistaken, and rather than synergy it is the dry format and the wasabi flavor doing a lot of work to offset and conceal the true awfulness of the ranch.




Many people take their terrible, New Zealand-style pizzas and then choose to _dip them in ranch_. 

Which is akin to going to a homicide scene, and instead of putting on a fresh pot of coffee to cover up the smell, you just start pooping everywhere.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> Malcolm Gladwell has an interesting article called the Ketchup Conundrum. Essentially, he asks why mustard has had such a revolution in textures and flavors, but ketchup just stays as ketchup.




Oh no.

Don't get me started on this. Malcolm Gladwell is the ranch dressing of modern writers.


----------



## payn

I need to chug buffalo sauce just to read this thread now.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Oh no.
> 
> Don't get me started on this. Malcolm Gladwell is the ranch dressing of modern writers.



I know he's been in some hot water lately, but I still love his little articles on little things. I'm separating the artist from the art here, Snarf!


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Many people take their terrible, New Zealand-style pizzas and then choose to _dip them in ranch_.
> 
> Which is akin to going to a homicide scene, and instead of putting on a fresh pot of coffee to cover up the smell, you just start pooping everywhere.



Not to get personal here, but is your tongue broken??? Ketchup, ranch, pineapples on pizza... This is the ambrosia of the gods! If we brought Henry VIII into modern day and bought him a Little Caesars Hawaiian Pizza with Ranch dipping sauce, he'd think we were giving him food fit for a king. Then he'd marry us, create a new religion to justify our divorce, and have us executed.

But he'd still love the food!


----------



## Mannahnin

BookTenTiger said:


> Malcolm Gladwell has an interesting article called the Ketchup Conundrum. Essentially, he asks why mustard has had such a revolution in textures and flavors, but ketchup just stays as ketchup.
> 
> It's been a while since I read it, but he basically argued that ketchup already had the revolution. It used to be a pretty basic watery bitter condiment, and then it transformed into the perfect blend of sweet-savory-sour that it is today.
> 
> I'm a ketchup fan and I don't care who knows! It is the perfect condiment. That, and avocado, go on everything (I am a Californian through and through).



Ketchup as such is at its best on fried potatoes.  That being said, I've changed over to no sugar added ketchup and found that it's superior for most applications.  I think the standard recipe appeals to people's sweet tooth too much.



payn said:


> I need to chug buffalo sauce just to read this thread now.



Buffalo pizza, as mentioned up-thread, is also excellent.  Personally I like to add a bit of Frank's Red Hot to almost any pizza I have at home.  Every once in a while I do the work to make a fresh batch of proper Buffalo sauce with Frank's, red wine vinegar, and melted butter.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> I know he's been in some hot water lately, but I still love his little articles on little things. I'm separating the artist from the art here, Snarf!




Naw, it's not about that stuff. It's about his writing. If you love it, don't have me spoil it for you. 

Once you see it, it's hard to unsee.


----------



## Cadence

Mannahnin said:


> Ketchup as such is at its best on fried potatoes.  That being said, I've changed over to no sugar added ketchup and found that it's superior for most applications.  I think the standard recipe appeals to people's sweet tooth too much.




My favorite dips for French fries are: mashed potatoes and gravy, buffalo sauce, ranch dressing, Arby's horsey sauce,  or Sweet Baby Ray's Secret Sauce.   BBQ sauce or mustard are in the next tier for me for the fries.




The best way to eat fries might be as Irish Nachos:



My son's favorite fry dips are apple sauce or marinara.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Naw, it's not about that stuff. It's about his writing. If you love it, don't have me spoil it for you.
> 
> Once you see it, it's hard to unsee.



You can only explain it if first you explain something else and then tell me how it relates to that first thing.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> My favorite dips for French fries are: mashed potatoes and gravy, buffalo sauce, ranch dressing, Arby's horsey sauce,  or Sweet Baby Ray's Secret Sauce.   BBQ sauce or mustard are in the next tier for me for the fries.
> 
> View attachment 150870
> 
> The best way to eat fries ight be as Irish Nachos:
> 
> View attachment 150872
> 
> My son's favorite fry dips are apple sauce or marinara.
> 
> View attachment 150871



Where is the malt vinegar?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Where is the malt vinegar?



One of the folks in our lunch group probably used it all if you can't find it.


----------



## darjr

I approve the new fashionable trend of peoples photos on their profiles.

A+


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> You can only explain it if first you explain something else and then tell me how it relates to that first thing.




I'd love to explain it to you, but the problem with his writing is really obvious. I'd spend a lot of time explaining to you, with a long story and lots of "just so" anecdotes, this really obvious problem. 

Unfortunately, I'd explain it to you by simplifying the actual problem and then giving you a snappy, yet incorrect, understanding of what the problem with Gladwell's writing is. 

But you'd feel good about yourself because you think you understand the problem with Gladwell's writing! And you'd go around and tell everybody about this understanding, because you feel smarter for having understood it. And it's really cool, because then you'd totally get this obvious thing, and be able to explain to other people (albeit incorrectly) the _secrets behind_ the obvious thing. 

Except that I didn't explain why Gladwell's writing is the ranch dressing of modern writing. I just kind of told you a story and strung you along and made you think that you understood the problem with his writing .... but I never really did, did I? 

So I'll have to pass.


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> I approve the new fashionable trend of peoples photos on their profiles.
> 
> A+



You asked for it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I approve the new fashionable trend of peoples photos on their profiles.
> 
> A+




I prefer the newer and even more fashionable trend of having your photo on people's profiles.

A++.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'd love to explain it to you, but the problem with his writing is really obvious. I'd spend a lot of time explaining to you, with a long story and lots of "just so" anecdotes, this really obvious problem.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'd explain it to you by simplifying the actual problem and then giving you a snappy, yet incorrect, understanding of what the problem with Gladwell's writing is.
> 
> But you'd feel good about yourself because you think you understand the problem with Gladwell's writing! And you'd go around and tell everybody about this understanding, because you feel smarter for having understood it. And it's really cool, because then you'd totally get this obvious thing, and be able to explain to other people (albeit incorrectly) the _secrets behind_ the obvious thing.
> 
> Except that I didn't explain why Gladwell's writing is the ranch dressing of modern writing. I just kind of told you a story and strung you along and made you think that you understood the problem with his writing .... but I never really did, did I?
> 
> So I'll have to pass.



Oh, I get it now!


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I prefer the newer and even more fashionable trend of having your photo on people's profiles.
> 
> A++.



I tried this. I got dizzy.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> My favorite dips for French fries are: mashed potatoes and gravy....




What this potato really needs is... more potato!


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I prefer the newer and even more fashionable trend of having your photo on people's profiles.




There was a time when moderators and admins could, in fact, change someone's profile pic.  This is, in fact, how I got mine - one of the mods assigned it to me before I was a moderator.  And, the realization that it was fitting may have been a reason why I got invited to be a moderator.


----------



## Gradine

I mean, let's be real. If you don't have a frosty to dip your fries in, it's a sad state


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> There was a time when moderators and admins could, in fact, change someone's profile pic.  This is, in fact, how I got mine - one of the mods assigned it to me before I was a moderator.  And, the realization that it was fitting may have been a reason why I got invited to be a moderator.




That would be an entertaining game!

Have people assign avatars to each other. 

....maybe for a very _loose definition _of entertaining.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That would be an entertaining game!
> 
> Have people assign avatars to each other.
> 
> ....maybe for a very _loose definition _of entertaining.



Back in the Nutkinland days I remember a lot of avatar changes and swapping. Someone (maybe Bugaboo?) started with a fetus and then grew up a few years every month or so. At one point I had one of my eyes as an avatar, and someone else has the other. Oh, back in ye olde days!


----------



## RealAlHazred

And I'm just sitting here with the same avatar I have used since, er, 1996, I think?

I do miss the animated avatars, since the original form was a television filled with static that moved. It's, uh, evolved since then.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Third Wave ska .... is it-

1. Precursor to a fourth wave?

2. Evidence that ska had two too many waves? 

Discuss.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 2. Evidence that ska had two too many waves?
> 
> Discuss.



Ding ding ding ding ding ding...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Ding ding ding ding ding ding...




What's the difference between a bull and a ska band?



Spoiler



On a bull, the horns are in the front and the a****** is in the back.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Third Wave ska .... is it-
> 
> 1. Precursor to a fourth wave?
> 
> 2. Evidence that ska had two too many waves?
> 
> Discuss.



Why choose?


----------



## Cadence

It's been that way since at least 1749.  But don't let me restrict, constrain, or unnaturally alter your views.


----------



## darjr

I think I doth protest not quite enough


----------



## BookTenTiger

Cadence said:


> It's been that way since at least 1749.  But don't let me restrict, constrain, or unnaturally alter your views.



Are you still talking about using selfies as avatars???


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> Are you still talking about using selfies as avatars???



Aunty Moser and Conrad Heyer were both born in 1749 as far as new fangled technology.

For old-school,  here's a self-portrait with a pug dated 1749 by William Hogarth.


----------



## dragoner

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Third Wave ska .... is it-
> 
> 1. Precursor to a fourth wave?
> 
> 2. Evidence that ska had two too many waves?
> 
> Discuss.



#3 The larch, er I mean a revival!


----------



## prabe

That's a helluva false dichotomy you have there.


----------



## Mannahnin

payn said:


> Where is the malt vinegar?



Excellent call. For me, fries want either ketchup or malt vinegar.  Perhaps a little tartar sauce if they're accompanying fried clams.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Excellent call. For me, fries want either ketchup or malt vinegar.  Perhaps a little tartar sauce if they're accompanying fried clams.




The fries want what they want, or else they do not care.


Thinking about this more closely, I have come to realize that Ranch is actually for people that love the taste of Miracle Whip, but also find it a little too spicy.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The fries want what they want, or else they do not care.
> 
> 
> Thinking about this more closely, I have come to realize that Ranch is actually for people that love the taste of Miracle Whip, but also find it a little too spicy.



Ugh, miracle whip gets the charlie brown puke face. Bring out the Hellman's, bring out the best!

Though yes, here in the Midwest folks consider ketchup and ranch as salsa.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What's the difference between a bull and a ska band?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> On a bull, the horns are in the front and the a****** is in the back.



Stop yer messin' around.


----------



## Gradine

Hadn't we, as a society, banned horns in pop music after the Treaty of Venice Beach?


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> Hadn't we, as a society, banned horns in pop music after the Treaty of Venice Beach?



I think you mean the Treaty of Echo Beach.


----------



## CleverNickName

I think the only food I deliberately put ketchup on are tater tots...on the rare occasion that I order them.  It's too sweet for my taste.

Usually if I'm eating a fried potato, it's Chips, and it's sitting in a basket of Fish 'N.  So I'll reach for the malt vinegar.


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


> I think you mean the Treaty of Echo Beach.



Pretty sure that only applies in Canada.


----------



## CleverNickName

What's this?  Another thread about D&D races, and the racial stereotypes they reinforce?
...eh, I'm good.  Ya'll go ahead without me.


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> Pretty sure that only applies in Canada.



Martha and her Muffins are universal.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> What's this?  Another thread about D&D races, and the racial stereotypes they reinforce?
> ...eh, I'm good.  Ya'll go ahead without me.


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> That's a helluva false dichotomy you have there.



Thanks! I just threw it on! It was all the rage in Milan(, Michigan)!


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> I think the only food I deliberately put ketchup on are tater tots...on the rare occasion that I order them.  It's too sweet for my taste.
> 
> Usually if I'm eating a fried potato, it's Chips, and it's sitting in a basket of Fish 'N.  So I'll reach for the malt vinegar.



Malt vinegar does particularly well with fish & chips, I agree, although I might use a little brown sauce too, if it's at hand.

Your reference to chips made me think of American chips, however, ie: Anglo-Irish crisps, and thus reminded me that they're an exception re: fried potatoes and ketchup.  Unless we're talking about Canadian ketchup-flavored chips, potato chips do not work with that condiment.

...mustard works quite well, though.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

CleverNickName said:


> What's this?  Another thread about D&D races, and the racial stereotypes they reinforce?
> ...eh, I'm good.  Ya'll go ahead without me.



I mean you could always just copy in your comments from the last nearly identical thread you encountered.


----------



## Cadence

__





						List of language regulators - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Holy cow.  I didn't realize there were so many. I had only heard of one.  Now I'm tempted to see if there's a site showing how much relative control they claim to exert.  (English doesn't have one, with the OED listed as the closest thing).


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I approve the new fashionable trend of peoples photos on their profiles.
> 
> A+



Hmmmmmmmm


----------



## Benjamin Olson

darjr said:


> I approve the new fashionable trend of peoples photos on their profiles.



Hmm. Well I used to not have my picture just because I hate being photographed, but I suppose now I can also not have it because I hate doing fashionable things. So I guess I appreciate the trend as well.


----------



## Cadence

I'm tempted to use Snarf's icon from here as the EN Radio playlist image on spotify.  I mean, what better than our patron bard for it...


----------



## CleverNickName

*The Official Cocktail of the 2020s*
1 oz. chilled Jägermeister
1 oz. chilled Rumplemintz

Shake with ice, and strain into a shot glass.  Serve up.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> *The Official Cocktail of the 2020s*
> 1 oz. chilled Jägermeister
> 1 oz. chilled Rumplemintz
> 
> Shake with ice, and strain into a shot glass.  Serve up.



I dunno. I figure the 2020s so far seem to be calling for something a little stronger, like 2 oz. of cask-strength bourbon, neat.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I believe the official cocktail of the 2020s is:
1 oz. hand sanitizer (your favorite brand)
1 oz. gasoline

Shake with ice and strain through an N95 mask into a garbage dumpster. Set dumpster on fire. Let sit for 5 minutes, and enjoy.


----------



## CleverNickName

It's a code, you see.
That cocktail has a name....it's in the language of Mordor, which I will not utter here.


----------



## J.Quondam

My preferred nightly cocktail for the Tortuous Twenties has been:

1 oz. everclear​1 oz. everclear​​Pour into a chipped shot glass. Add a lima bean.​Set aside the shot glass and peer quizzically at the lima bean while chugging the rest of the bottle of everclear.​


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> *The Official Cocktail of the 2020s*
> 1 oz. chilled Jägermeister
> 1 oz. chilled Rumplemintz
> 
> Shake with ice, and strain into a shot glass.  Serve up.



Thats what teenagers drink.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> My preferred nightly cocktail for the Tortuous Twenties has been:
> 
> 1 oz. everclear​1 oz. everclear​​Pour into a chipped shot glass. Add a lima bean.​Set aside the shot glass and peer quizzically at the lima bean while chugging the rest of the bottle of everclear.​



Add a pinch of Kool Aid, for flavour.


----------



## CleverNickName

Wait...goblins _weren't _fey creatures all this time?

Weird.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Wait...goblins _weren't _fey creatures all this time?
> 
> Weird.



I know, everyone just thought they were pure evil. All this time delivering wanton violence upon them and who knew?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Wait...goblins _weren't _fey creatures all this time?
> 
> Weird.



Don't worry. I'm writing a post about it right now. Long story short, it's because of Tolkien. Middle Earth's Goblins and Hobgoblins weren't considered "Fey", so that carried over to D&D, even though folklore Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears were about as "Fey" as they could get.

Edit: "Goblin" and "Orc" were originally supposed to be synonymous, but the movies and D&D made them different creatures.


----------



## Cadence

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Don't worry. I'm writing a post about it right now. Long story short, it's because of Tolkien. Middle Earth's Goblins and Hobgoblins weren't considered "Fey", so that carried over to D&D, even though folklore Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears were about as "Fey" as they could get.




But, but, Gary said Tolkien didn't influence him that much.

(I'm sorry, I shouldn't have had that Imperial Stout, I can't stop laughing).


----------



## CleverNickName

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Don't worry. I'm writing a post about it right now. Long story short, it's because of Tolkien. Middle Earth's Goblins and Hobgoblins weren't considered "Fey", so that carried over to D&D, even though folklore Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears were about as "Fey" as they could get.
> 
> Edit: "Goblin" and "Orc" were originally supposed to be synonymous, but the movies and D&D made them different creatures.



Huh, that's interesting.


----------



## Mad_Jack

darjr said:


> I approve the new fashionable trend of peoples photos on their profiles.
> 
> A+




 <--- That isn't just my avatar, it's also my driver's license photo......


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Mad_Jack said:


> <--- That isn't just my avatar, it's also my driver's license photo......



Same.


----------



## Cadence

That makes this thread seem sensible and organized in comparison.  It isn't supposed to be like that, is it?


----------



## prabe

WHY WOULD A THREAD BE SENSIBLE

OR ORGANIZED

THAT WOULD BE A PARTICULARLY SILLY SORT OF THREAD


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> WHY WOULD A THREAD BE SENSIBLE
> 
> OR ORGANIZED
> 
> THAT WOULD BE A PARTICULARLY SILLY SORT OF THREAD



Threads are meant to unwind.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> WHY WOULD A THREAD BE SENSIBLE
> 
> OR ORGANIZED
> 
> THAT WOULD BE A PARTICULARLY SILLY SORT OF THREAD



But that feels like Elric was too late and Chaos won, only to be joined by Cthulhu, and then they discovered Twitter.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Bur that one feels like Elric was too late and Chaos, won, only to be joined by Cthulhu, and then they discovered Twitter.



I'm pretty sure Cthulu programmed Twitter, as a trap.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> I'm pretty sure Cthulu programmed Twitter, as a trap.



Now I'm picturing which forces made each tech/media company... and it makes too much sense....ecchh.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Now I'm picturing which forces made each tech/media company... and it makes too much sense....ecchh.



I know, right???


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> Now I'm picturing which forces made each tech/media company... and it makes too much sense....ecchh.



Lolth made Reddit, because it's awful and everyone there hates it, but it always ensnares you with something awesome or interesting to get you coming back. Gruumsh made Facebook as a way to get everyone in the world mad at everyone else in the world. Maglubiyet made Twitter to usurp Facebook's title of "the worst social media site on the internet". Sune created Instagram as a way to show mortals how much better she is than them. Cthulhu made Youtube as a way to learn more about humans and ways to exploit us in his upcoming destruction of humanity (it turns out climate change works fairly well). And a Slaad Lord made Tik Tok to be the most chaotic of all the social media.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Didn't post this in my most recent thread, as I figured it would be better here. My most recent thread's OP style was inspired @Snarf Zagyg format for their article-threads. I put a few twists on it (sub-headers in the post, bad parodies for songs instead of bad versions of famous quotes), but I wanted to give credit to them anyways. So, thanks Snarf.

(Link for those that are interested.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*The 2022 Cocktail- Snarf's Very Dry Martini*

1. Get some decent gin. Hendrick's gin works; Tanqueray London Dry in a pinch.

2. Did you just ask me about vodka? We're making a martini, not some college freshman punch. Not some abomination. Vodka is for cleaning your wounds, not for cocktails.

3. Pour 3 ounces of gin into a glass with ice.

4. Whisper the word, "Vermouth," over the top of the glass.

5. NOT TOO LOUD. We want this to be a very dry martini.

6. Stir.

7. Did you say shake? Well, are you James Bond? If you aren't, then shut up. Martinis should be stirred.

8. Pour into a cocktail glass, using a strainer if needed to ensure no ice goes into the glass.

9. While pondering the events of 2022, quickly throw the drink over your shoulder and pound your head into the bar until you reach the desired level of unconsciousness.

10. Repeat until 2023.


----------



## Cadence

That thing where you can click on the names and see, for many posters, where they are from and/or at.


----------



## payn

Stirred Martini? 2023 is not off to a good start.


----------



## Mad_Jack

prabe said:


> WHY WOULD A THREAD BE SENSIBLE




 If threads have evolved to the point where they're developing senses, we are in serious trouble.

Not least of all because any thread on this forum is unlikely to grow into anything but a random slaad.


----------



## Cadence

So, do D&D modules often leave out bathrooms and chamber pots?  Are D&D humanoids Pokemonesque in this regard?


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Lolth made Reddit, because it's awful and everyone there hates it, but it always ensnares you with something awesome or interesting to get you coming back. Gruumsh made Facebook as a way to get everyone in the world mad at everyone else in the world. Maglubiyet made Twitter to usurp Facebook's title of "the worst social media site on the internet". Sune created Instagram as a way to show mortals how much better she is than them. Cthulhu made Youtube as a way to learn more about humans and ways to exploit us in his upcoming destruction of humanity (it turns out climate change works fairly well). And a Slaad Lord made Tik Tok to be the most chaotic of all the social media.



I'm with you on everything, but the last. The Slaad are into food, not social media. They also aren't really good at hiding it. Note the name of the pictured restaurant. With that name, would you expect them to be a Thai restaurant? Chaos. Pure chaos.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> So, do D&D modules often leave out bathrooms and chamber pots?  Are D&D humanoids Pokemonesque in this regard?



Only the best modules include privies.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> So, do D&D modules often leave out bathrooms and chamber pots?  Are D&D humanoids Pokemonesque in this regard?




 There have been two times in my D&D career that a DM included an outhouse in a bandit camp scenario - the first time, we waited until the bandit leader went in, then tied the door shut and burned it down with him inside while the party fought the bandits. The second time, in a different game two decades later, the party locked the big guy in there until after the fight, then unlocked the door so that he charged out straight into a full-party firing squad of readied actions...


----------



## Malmuria

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Didn't post this in my most recent thread, as a figured it would be better here. My most recent thread's OP style was inspired @Snarf Zagyg format for their article-threads. I put a few twists on it (sub-headers in the post, bad parodies for songs instead of bad versions of famous quotes), but I wanted to give credit to them anyways. So, thanks Snarf.
> 
> (Link for those that are interested.)



When I read your post I was reminded of the end of The Wire, 



Spoiler: spoiler for The Wire



when Michael becomes the new Omar


----------



## Cadence

"Oh, you mean capitalists!"


----------



## darjr

Is this sarcastic?


----------



## Cadence

Everything is a contest!

(* In spite of what the table leaders at the AP reading say about how you should be approaching grading.)


----------



## RealAlHazred

There is a privy at the very beginning of the classic module *The Mines of Madness*, updated to 5E by Chris Perkins. It's got a bit of a surprise...


----------



## darjr

Sure. Cause you’re going to turn it all around.

Could be?


----------



## Ryujin

Generally speaking if there's a privy, there's an otyugh.

_Editied for typo_


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> Generally speaking of there's a privy, there's an otyugh.



A fine philosophy for life, if I've ever heard one!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> There is a privy at the very beginning of the classic module *The Mines of Madness*, updated to 5E by Chris Perkins. It's got a bit of a surprise...



An Otyugh, I'm guessing? WotC only ever includes bathrooms in their adventures if there's an Otyugh, Carrion Crawler, or Mimic in it.


----------



## darjr

AcererakTriple6 said:


> An Otyugh, I'm guessing? WotC only ever includes bathrooms in their adventures if there's an Otyugh, Carrion Crawler, or Mimic in it.



One time there was a purple worm. But that was special.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

darjr said:


> One time there was a purple worm. But that was special.



What, was it the privy of a Giant? Or the Tarrasque?


----------



## darjr

AcererakTriple6 said:


> What, was it the privy of a Giant? Or the Tarrasque?



Nope, just an outhouse. With a purple worm in it. Spoilers.


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> Nope, just an outhouse. With a purple worm in it. Spoilers.



Look out! It's shai-hu-LOO!


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> Nope, just an outhouse. With a purple worm in it. Spoilers.


----------



## darjr

I give you the outhouse.


----------



## darjr

who says 5e can't be old school.


----------



## CleverNickName

Who would have thought a cartoon could do all that?


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> who says 5e can't be old school.




Isn't there an entire thread out there on that?  (Did it end with a bang or a whimper?)


----------



## Cadence

How not to have an EN thread go well... unfortunately.  Except about Pizza and Hot Dogs.


----------



## darjr

Oh! I see what you did there. 

I approve.


----------



## Cadence

Versimilitude and realism are why I don't like DMing most kinds of modern or non-post-apocolyptic games.  How many things can you have repeatedly come up that aren't in any data base or camera anywhere?


----------



## Umbran

Why are all of you clicking like on stuff that I wrote _years_ ago?


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Versimilitude and realism are why I don't like DMing most kinds of modern or non-post-apocolyptic games.  How many things can you have repeatedly come up that aren't in any data base or camera anywhere?




Hint: if they think they can find it if it shows up, "in some database or camera anywhere" they don't know much about realism in computer technology today.


----------



## J.Quondam

Umbran said:


> Why are all of you clicking like on stuff that I wrote _years_ ago?



Your wisdom transcends time itself, probably.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Hint: if they think they can find it if it shows up, "in some database or camera anywhere" they don't know much about realism in computer technology today.




Part of it is games like WoD or Shadowrun where the points they have in computers makes them seem like they should have the faux NCIS type access.   Part of it is detective fiction from the 40s-60s where it's blood type, newspaper files, and a big file room somewhere that's now DNA matching and google.


----------



## Aeson

I saw the undead origins thread and was tempted to say Roger Corman is the origin.


----------



## Aeson

Cadence said:


> Part of it is games like WoD or Shadowrun where the points they have in computers makes them seem like they should have the faux NCIS type access.   Part of it is detective fiction from the 40s-60s where it's blood type, newspaper files, and a big file room somewhere that's now DNA matching and google.



And zooming, and enhancing video or photos.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Part of it is ...




Yeah, I know where the trope comes from.  I am commenting on how "realism" is more dependent on the player, than on actual reality.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Yeah, I know where the trope comes from.  I am commenting on how "realism" is more dependent on the player, than on actual reality.




Sorry, in my original post I meant to say "modern or non-post-apocolyptic *sci-fi* games", and the later where my brain was going with the beyond-realist NCIS TV stuff.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Aeson said:


> And zooming, and enhancing video or photos.



I apologize for nothing.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> Why are all of you clicking like on stuff that I wrote _years_ ago?



I have had someone comment on a post I made on another forum seven years earlier, to correct me with examples of things that had been published in the interim. The Internet is a silly place.


----------



## darjr

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I have had someone comment on a post I made on another forum seven years earlier, to correct me with examples of things that had been published in the interim. The Internet is a silly place.



When you’re retrograde wrong.


----------



## payn

As a joke, I posted a John Cougar Melloncamp song. Its ear worming me to death now...


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I apologize for nothing.


----------



## Cadence

"But I can't do my thing if I can't tell where the edges are!"


----------



## darjr

I realize that I and one or two others are, ironically, their very best advertisers. 

I suspect that’s the only reason I haven’t been banned in all thier spaces.

Oh and I saved them some embarrassment.


----------



## CleverNickName

I still don't see what is so AwfulWrongBad about the Legacy Content Disclaimer.  It's probably the most watered-down, do-nothing course of action that Wizards of the Coast could have taken...but judging from some of the responses (and threats of legal action!) you'd think they were burning books and writing laws.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I still don't see what is so AwfulWrongBad about the Legacy Content Disclaimer.  It's probably the most watered-down, do-nothing course of action that Wizards of the Coast could have taken...but judging from some of the responses (and threats of legal action!) you'd think they were burning books and writing laws.



The worst things I can see about it are A) that it's the same disclaimer for every relevant product and B) there are products that need stronger (or more specific) disclaimers.


----------



## Umbran

Folks, again, this is not a place for side discussions on thread topics.


----------



## CleverNickName

@Umbran Sorry 'bout that, I'll keep it to the other thread.

Here's a candy-pizza abomination, to get us back on track.




Apparently this is a real thing that people make.  On purpose.


----------



## CleverNickName

Oh lawd.
Here's another candy corn pizza, with peanuts, green onions, and hot sauce on it as well:




And this ungodly horror has raisins and vanilla frosting:



No, seriously.  Here's the recipe:








						Candy Corn Pizza
					

Top this sweet pizza any way you like, its Halloween-style. Just 5 ingredients, 15 minutes prep, easy and fun :)




					www.gourmandize.com
				




I bet pineapple doesn't sound so bad NOW, huh?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> @Umbran Sorry 'bout that, I'll keep it to the other thread.
> 
> Here's a candy-pizza abomination, to get us back on track.
> View attachment 151027
> Apparently this is a real thing that people make.  On purpose.








The only thing worse would be if it had those orange circus peanuts on it...


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> @Umbran Sorry 'bout that, I'll keep it to the other thread.
> 
> Here's a candy-pizza abomination, to get us back on track.
> 
> Apparently this is a real thing that people make.  On purpose.




Well.  It is colorful, at least.


----------



## darjr

What the h*ck. I did pineapple, could it be any worse?


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> The only thing worse would be if it had those orange circus peanuts on it...



Okay, my good people.

It's time for some real talk here.

A "candy corn pizza" doesn't have to be an abomination to the word "candy," or the word "corn," or the word "pizza."

We just need to flip the script. 

We need to change the way we think of candy corn.

Maybe instead of putting candy corn onto a pizza, we just make the pizza _look like candy corn._

Behold:  cheddar cheese, marinara, and fresh mozzarella, arranged in concentric circles and topped with an extra ring of marinara sauce in the middle.  When sliced, you have a "candy corn" pizza that is actually edible, probably delicious, and definitely better to all alternatives:


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Okay, my good people.
> 
> It's time for some real talk here.
> 
> A "candy corn pizza" doesn't have to be an abomination to the word "candy," or the word "corn," or the word "pizza."
> 
> We just need to flip the script.
> 
> We need to change the way we think of candy corn.
> 
> Maybe instead of putting candy corn onto a pizza, we just make the pizza _look like candy corn._
> 
> Behold:  cheddar cheese, marinara, and fresh mozzarella, arranged in concentric circles and topped with an extra ring of marinara sauce in the middle.  When sliced, you have a "candy corn" pizza that is actually edible, probably delicious, and definitely better to all alternatives:
> 
> View attachment 151032



You can at least eat this, which with candy corn you cannot say the same.


----------



## Cadence

So, if we cut the candy corns and sorted the parts, we could make a candy corn pizza whose slices looked like candy corn...


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> So, if we cut the candy corns and sorted the parts, we could make a candy corn pizza whose slices looked like candy corn...


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> So, if we cut the candy corns and sorted the parts, we could make a candy corn pizza whose slices looked like candy corn...




That's a lot of work to make a waxy pizza.


----------



## darjr

No you did not!!! Did you?!?


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> @Umbran Sorry 'bout that, I'll keep it to the other thread.
> 
> Here's a candy-pizza abomination, to get us back on track.
> View attachment 151027
> Apparently this is a real thing that people make.  On purpose.



Bleh. There are easier-- and probably tastier-- ways to make a frisbee.


----------



## Not a Hobbit

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men..."
-Lord Acton


----------



## payn

Quite an ironic statement.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Not a Hobbit said:


> "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men..."
> -Lord Acton



"If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?"
-George Deacon


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> "If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?"
> -George Deacon



"When I hold a gun I feel so powerful, like the way God must feel when he is holding a gun."
-Homer Simpson


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


>


----------



## Mannahnin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> "If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?"
> -George Deacon


----------



## Gradine

Relevant


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Relevant




It's going to be really hard for me not to spend all afternoon doing edits of this.  Ack!  Thank you.

(Candy corn pizza in bottom right?  New York style down a role and looking much floppier?  Chicago deep dish under Neutral Good? etc...)


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Relevant



NZ style? Evil Evil?


----------



## CleverNickName

Someone needs to make an alignment chart for sandwiches, and put this entire pizza chart in the Lawful Evil box.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> Someone needs to make an alignment chart for sandwiches, and put this entire pizza chart in the Lawful Evil box.


----------



## Cadence

Does being a discussion about something in D&D require incorrect statements, hyperbole, and obstinacy?  Or should "in D&D' be removed from that sentence?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Does being a discussion about something in D&D require incorrect statements, hyperbole, and obstinacy?  Or should "in D&D' be removed from that sentence?



Yeah, remove that 'in D&D' part, I think that's true of all internet arguments.  It allows you to make your arguments sound more punchy and witty, while giving you an "out" in case you are wrong.  "In your _face, _loser!"  (five minutes later)  "Clearly you misunderstood me, I was talking about acne, you need to pay attention."


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> Does being a discussion about something in D&D require incorrect statements, hyperbole, and obstinacy?  Or should "in D&D' be removed from that sentence?



I don't know. The more time that I spend on D&D-forum-sites, the more it seems to me that constant misrepresentation and over-extreme reactions to minor stuff is necessary to discussion. Anyone that disagrees with my opinion on something D&D related is obviously either an "SJW" newb that knows nothing about the game and wants to destroy the hobby, or is literally a Nazi that wants to make it so that only cishet white males are allowed to play D&D. 

/s (obviously)


----------



## Cadence

@CleverNickName and @AcererakTriple6  - This feels like the place where Cugel would get you arguing about this, take your stuff, slightly change his clothing, and flee.  And it would work better than his usual plans, because it would go on forever until a pesky mod showed up - allowing him a clean escape.


----------



## Malmuria

egg salad sandwich as neutral evil is the most perfect description ever


----------



## CleverNickName

I reject the notion that ice cream sandwiches are Lawful Evil.  I've never seen an evil ice cream sandwich in my life, and I've eaten them all over the world.  I've seen plenty of Chaotic ones and Neutral mediocrity, sure, but never Evil.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I reject the notion that ice cream sandwiches are Lawful Evil.  I've never seen an evil ice cream sandwich in my life, and I've eaten them all over the world.  I've seen plenty of Chaotic ones and Neutral mediocrity, sure, but never Evil.



What form of lawful is it to start by always eating the ears off of the Mickey Mouse ice cream bar?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> What form of lawful is it to start by always eating the ears off of the Mickey Mouse ice cream bar?



I'd call it Lawful Normal.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I'd call it Lawful Normal.



Does the viciousness of the bite and the pleasure taking at the mouse maiming affect that?  Or, can I rest assured of normality, at least in that respect?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Does the viciousness of the bite and the pleasure taking at the mouse maiming affect that?  Or, can I rest assured of normality, at least in that respect?



Well you see, if you look really closely you will notice that it's not actually a mouse...it's all ice cream sandwich.  So yeah, rest assured of normality.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I reject the notion that ice cream sandwiches are Lawful Evil.  I've never seen an evil ice cream sandwich in my life, and I've eaten them all over the world.  I've seen plenty of Chaotic ones and Neutral mediocrity, sure, but never Evil.



It aint icecream, its a soy milk ice cream sandwich.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> It aint icecream, its a soy milk ice cream sandwich.



Yep, still pretty mediocre if you ask me and my lactose-intolerant wife.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Yep, still pretty mediocre if you ask me and my lactose-intolerant wife.



Mediocre? I still have PTSD from biting into one and not knowing it was soy milk. Some sick mother came up with that idea I tell you what.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Does being a discussion about something in D&D require incorrect statements, hyperbole, and obstinacy?  Or should "in D&D' be removed from that sentence?




It is less about D&D, and more about the medium.  Social media allows use of those approaches with little consequence, but large emotional payoff for the one using them.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> It is less about D&D, and more about the medium.  Social media allows use of those approaches with little consequence, but large emotional payoff for the one using them.



"Only in concealing one's identity, can one truly be known. (Whatcha!)" - Brother Silence, "The Gamers: Dorkness Rising"


----------



## J.Quondam

Umbran said:


> It is less about D&D, and more about the medium.  Social media allows use of those approaches with little consequence, but large emotional payoff for the one using them.



"large emotional payoff" is probably a bit overly generous. More like "an ever-so-slight rush that is marginally more stimulating than anything else that's happened to me in the last 20 minutes while sitting here on a musky couch in the the semi-dark in my mom's basement."

Or at least that how it is for me.


----------



## Parmandur

@darjr  I'm enjoying the personal photo a atar: I think it helps more accurately convey the utmost seriousness with which I take all of my posts.


----------



## payn

My avatar says I'm clearly overdressed for this place.


----------



## billd91

The last couple years have been a banner time for my Ignore button.


----------



## Deset Gled

darjr said:


> I realize that I and one or two others are, ironically, their very best advertisers.
> 
> I suspect that’s the only reason I haven’t been banned in all thier spaces.




This post may have been a little premature.


----------



## darjr

Deset Gled said:


> This post may have been a little premature.



Wait what?

Oh! I’m banned!

How’d you know before I did?


----------



## Cadence

It takes two to lie-- one to lie and one to listen.
					

The Simpsons (1989) - S03E20 Comedy clip with quote It takes two to lie-- one to lie and one to listen.     Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote.     Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share.     Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect...




					www.getyarn.io


----------



## payn

So, I just got an email from a friend and I dont know where else to share it. About a year ago he got a line on an unrestored 1931 Auburn speedster. Just a beauty of a car. I just got an email of him hanging out with_ Jay leno _in his garage_. _I guess he is going to be on the show soon.


----------



## Deset Gled

darjr said:


> Wait what?
> 
> Oh! I’m banned!
> 
> How’d you know before I did?




They didn't just ban you, they deleted all of your posts.  Not a trace left, and not the slightest acknowledgement of the pictures you brought up.

On related note, "All Anti-TSR accounts will be banned" is now in the official forum rules there.


----------



## darjr

Deset Gled said:


> They didn't just ban you, they deleted all of your posts.  Not a trace left, and not the slightest acknowledgement of the pictures you brought up.
> 
> On related note, "All Anti-TSR accounts will be banned" is now in the official forum rules there.



gotta shield the marks.


----------



## darjr

And to think I saved his hide from a hot mic incident! That's gratitude for you.


----------



## Cadence

I'm confused again. Do you actually like anything about any extant published version of the game?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> I'm confused again. Do you actually like anything about any extant published version of the game?



Anything worth enjoying, is worth nitpicking until it's unenjoyable by anyone.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Anything worth enjoying, is worth nitpicking until it's unenjoyable by anyone.



Is this what people mean when they say "TVTropes with ruin your life"?


----------



## RealAlHazred

You all need to stop liking things in ways other than the way I like them! You're doing it wrong! What you're having isn't "fun" as we use the term! You need to do things my way, or you'll never experience the true definition of "fun"!


----------



## Cadence

That thing where you want to type something, but if a certain mod is reading that thread too it would be bad.  And so you try to come up with an opaque work around, but your brain is too sloggy to do it.  Oooh, more MtG spoilers.  <- runs away for a while to regroup.


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> You all need to stop liking things in ways other than the way I like them! You're doing it wrong! What you're having isn't "fun" as we use the term! You need to do things my way, or you'll never experience the true definition of "fun"!



Wait.  Are you saying that if I like pineapple on my pizza, nobody else will be allowed to eat pineapple-free pizza?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Wait.  Are you saying that if I like pineapple on my pizza, nobody else will be allowed to eat pineapple-free pizza?




_Well, that was another in a long series of regrettable life choices.

-_CleverNickName, pondering the pizza in his mouth.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I think this was mentioned before, but someone could probably develop a thread that explains the meta of enworld.

I'm guessing that some of the things that have developed over time might seem ... odd ... to people that aren't used to it.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I think this was mentioned before, but someone could probably develop a thread that explains the meta of enworld.
> 
> I'm guessing that some of the things that have developed over time might seem ... odd ... to people that aren't used to it.



I'm still a relative newbie.  And ignorant of a lot of history, I'm sure.


----------



## payn

It;s official. WFT is now called The Commanders.


----------



## Mannahnin

payn said:


> It;s official. WFT is now called The Commanders.



Ah, the good ol' Washington Commies.


----------



## darjr

Oh


----------



## darjr

I wonder if they like my comment?


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> It;s official. WFT is now called The Commanders.




Cue people complaining that they should have been called the Warlords.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> It;s official. WFT is now called The Commanders.




… Know it sounds funny
But our team just can't stand the pain
Fans, we're gonna lose tomorrow
Seems to me, fans
You know we will lose all we can
You see, Snyder begged, stole, and he lied, yeah, ooh

… That's why beating us is easy
It's easy like Sunday morning
That's why beating us is easy
It's easy like Sunday morning


_Oh, wait. Commanders. Not Commodores. 

...Commodores would be cooler. If you're a friend of the Commodores, you're an Amiga of the team....._


----------



## prabe

As someone local to DC, I say: Leave it to Snyder to pick a team name hat can't be less than three syllables. "Chant *that*, peasants!"


----------



## Bolares

I was weirdly endeared to WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM. It looked like Borat gave them their name


----------



## prabe

Bolares said:


> I was weirdly endeared to WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM. It looked like Borat gave them their name



There is basically nothing endearing about the franchise. I stopped paying attention to the NFL a little more than ten years ago, because I thought how the league was treating retired players was shameful and probably evil; the revelations about brain injuries and other more-recent news have done little to change my opinion on that. I still see enough about the local team in the local news to know they manage to combine corporate evil and sexism and racism in the front office with perpetually-bad sport decisions.

EDIT: Here's a piece that says it better than I could: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/02/military-washington-commanders/


----------



## Bolares

prabe said:


> There is basically nothing endearing about the franchise. I stopped paying attention to the NFL a little more than ten years ago, because I thought how the league treats retired players was shameful and probably evil; the revelations about brain injuries and other more-recent news have done little to change my opinion on that. I still see enough about the local team in the local news to know they manage to combine corporate evil and sexism and racism in the front office with perpetually-bad sport decisions.
> 
> EDIT: Here's a piece that says it better than I could: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/02/military-washington-commanders/



I was referring to the NAME...


----------



## prabe

Bolares said:


> I was referring to the NAME...



Yeah. Sorry.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> I was referring to the NAME...




I was pushing for Washington Team of Football.


WTF, dude. W. T. F.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> There is basically nothing endearing about the franchise. I stopped paying attention to the NFL a little more than ten years ago, because I thought how the league treats retired players was shameful and probably evil; the revelations about brain injuries and other more-recent news have done little to change my opinion on that. I still see enough about the local team in the local news to know they manage to combine corporate evil and sexism and racism in the front office with perpetually-bad sport decisions.
> 
> EDIT: Here's a piece that says it better than I could: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/02/military-washington-commanders/




It was pretty endearing how outclassed they were by Tom Landry's Cowboys in the 60s - 80s.  He was 32-24-2 against them including two three-year long regular season winning streaks in 1968-1970 and 1980-1982.


----------



## Bolares

prabe said:


> There is basically nothing endearing about the franchise. I stopped paying attention to the NFL a little more than ten years ago, because I thought how the league was treating retired players was shameful and probably evil; the revelations about brain injuries and other more-recent news have done little to change my opinion on that. I still see enough about the local team in the local news to know they manage to combine corporate evil and sexism and racism in the front office with perpetually-bad sport decisions.
> 
> EDIT: Here's a piece that says it better than I could: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/02/military-washington-commanders/



Now, about this.... American Football weirdly is by far my favourite spoert. Even though I'm brazillian I ended up playing and then being the offensive coordinator of my cities amateur team (there is no such thing as a professional league here). So while a agree the NFL is troublesome to say the least, I find it hard to stop watching games. The whole Kaepernick thing was really rough for me though.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Now, about this.... American Football weirdly is by far my favourite spoert. Even though I'm brazillian I ended up playing and then being the offensive coordinator of my cities amateur team (there is no such thing as a professional league here). So while a agree the NFL is troublesome to say the least, I find it hard to stop watching games. The whole Kaepernick thing was really rough for me though.




Brian Flores sees your discomfort with the Kaepernick thing and says, "Hold my beer."


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Brian Flores sees your discomfort with the Kaepernick thing and says, "Hold my beer."



That's....GREAT


----------



## darjr

Washington Whales

Washington Warriors

Washington Volcanoes

Washington


----------



## Cadence

So, when you run across something that might be the most ludicrous take you've ever seen on ENWorld*... but it kind of fits with the posters other posts and you don't see any sign it's a joke, do you still assume they were just joking?


* Except about Pizza and Hotdogs


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> That's....GREAT




I find that if I pay attention solely to what is on the football field, it is the most wonderful sport.

Like many things, it is the business side that can wreck it- especially the owners. This may shock some people, but old guys with billions of dollars may not always be pleasant, progressive, and nice people.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I find that if I pay attention solely to what is on the football field, it is the most wonderful sport.



Yeah.. that's what I'm doing.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> So, when you run across something that might be the most ludicrous take you've ever seen on ENWorld*... but it kind of fits with the posters other posts and you don't see any sign it's a joke, do you still assume they were just joking?
> 
> 
> * Except about Pizza and Hotdogs




...how ludicorus?

On the scale of 1 (CleverNickName recanting his pineapple heresy) to Infinite (I decide to create a "Thank you to all Bards and the Neat-o People Who Play Them!" thread) ludicrousness? 

Is there a unit of measurement for ludicrousness? Does it differ between metric and imperial?

"That's insane. I think it's approximately 32.4 kilocarrottops."


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ...how ludicorus?
> 
> On the scale of 1 (CleverNickName recanting his pineapple heresy) to Infinite (I decide to create a "Thank you to all Bards and the Neat-o People Who Play Them!" thread) ludicrousness?
> 
> Is there a unit of measurement for ludicrousness? Does it differ between metric and imperial?
> 
> "That's insane. I think it's approximately 32.4 kilocarrottops."



Hope you're not driving today...


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ...how ludicorus?
> 
> On the scale of 1 (CleverNickName recanting his pineapple heresy) to Infinite (I decide to create a "Thank you to all Bards and the Neat-o People Who Play Them!" thread) ludicrousness?
> 
> Is there a unit of measurement for ludicrousness? Does it differ between metric and imperial?
> 
> "That's insane. I think it's approximately 32.4 kilocarrottops."





"No other class is even half as good as bards" level.


----------



## darjr

When your desperate search for that “other poster” fails and you realize it was you.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> When your desperate search for that “other poster” fails and you realize it was you.



If, looking around the table, you don't know who the sucker is, it's you.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I was pushing for Washington Team of Football.
> 
> 
> WTF, dude. W. T. F.



Seven down the mountain


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> Washington Whales
> 
> Washington Warriors
> 
> Washington Volcanoes
> 
> Washington



Along the "W" line I was hoping they would go with Warpigs. It also harkens to their historical line called the "hogs". Of course you have the ol pigskin line too. Also, its funny because its D.C. and Ozzie wrote a quaint song about leaders named Warpigs.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ...how ludicorus?
> 
> On the scale of 1 (CleverNickName recanting his pineapple heresy) to Infinite (I decide to create a "Thank you to all Bards and the Neat-o People Who Play Them!" thread) ludicrousness?
> 
> Is there a unit of measurement for ludicrousness? Does it differ between metric and imperial?
> 
> "That's insane. I think it's approximately 32.4 kilocarrottops."



Divide by 1.8 and add 32.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ...how ludicorus?
> 
> On the scale of 1 (CleverNickName recanting his pineapple heresy) to Infinite (I decide to create a "Thank you to all Bards and the Neat-o People Who Play Them!" thread) ludicrousness?
> 
> Is there a unit of measurement for ludicrousness? Does it differ between metric and imperial?




@Snarf Zagyg You might be shocked and amazed to learn that the last two pizzas I ordered didn't have pineapple on them at all.  One was topped with Canadian bacon and jalapeno peppers, which you might recognize this as the classic "border to border" pizza.  And just yesterday, I ordered a fresh mozzarella, fresh basil, and tomato pizza (the classic "margarita" pizza).

You prefer to paint me by my penchant for purchasing pizzas-plus-pineapple alone, so I thought you might like to know that about me.  Yes, the "Hawaiian" is a classic, but it's not the only classic I'm known to enjoy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> @Snarf Zagyg You might be shocked and amazed to learn that the last two pizzas I ordered didn't have pineapple on them at all.  One was topped with Canadian bacon and jalapeno peppers, which you might recognize this as the classic "border to border" pizza.  And just yesterday, I ordered a fresh mozzarella, fresh basil, and tomato pizza (the classic "margarita" pizza).
> 
> You prefer to paint me by my penchant for purchasing pizzas-plus-pineapple alone, so I thought you might like to know that about me.  Yes, the "Hawaiian" is a classic, but it's not the only classic I'm known to enjoy.




So what you're saying is that your heresies are manifold and manifest*, albeit inconsistent. Your only lodestar is the desecration of the One True Pizza. 



*BEHOLD! The CleverNickName special - Pineapple and Manicotti Pizza!


----------



## CleverNickName

Ah yes, the One True Pizza*.  How could I forget?  The default.  The ubiquitous.  The ordinary.  The same pizza you ate yesterday, and the day before.  The one with the same sauce and crust, topped with the same cheese and pepperoni slices, par-cooked in the same oven and set aside on the same shelf, until the same phone call places the same order, and that same pizza gets reheated and boxed up and served.  Again.

Wait, what's this?  A glimmer of excitement tonight, this caller wants something different!  Wait, no, false alarm...it's just extra cheese.  Guess I'll just grab another room-temp parbake, add another handful of that same cheese, put it in the same oven, send it out.  Same as always.

*Behold!  The...well, _opposite_ of special: the pepperoni pizza!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Ah yes, the One True Pizza*.  How could I forget?  The default.  The ubiquitous.  The ordinary.  The same pizza you ate yesterday, and the day before.  The one with the same sauce and crust, topped with the same cheese and pepperoni slices, par-cooked in the same oven and set aside on the same shelf, until the same phone call places the same order, and that same pizza gets reheated and boxed up and served.  Again.
> 
> Wait, what's this?  A glimmer of excitement tonight, this caller wants something different!  Wait, no, false alarm...it's just extra cheese.  Guess I'll just grab another room-temp parbake, add another handful of that same cheese, put it in the same oven, send it out.  Same as always.
> 
> *Behold!  The...well, _opposite_ of special: the pepperoni pizza!




Your heresies have so benoodled your brain that you view PEPPERONI as a good thing?

“Pepperoni” is the threat whispered to Italian grandmothers to make them cry. It is no more pizza than Chef Boyardee is home made pasta al dente.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So what you're saying is that your heresies are ...




...demonstrating that dogmas need heresies, less the dogma become hollow and irrelevant.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Your heresies have so benoodled your brain that you view PEPPERONI as a good thing?
> 
> “Pepperoni” is the threat whispered to Italian grandmothers to make them cry. It is no more pizza than Chef Boyardee is home made pasta al dente.




You know, I am now considering ordering a pepperoni and pineapple pizza this evening just for spite... and alliteration.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Your heresies have so benoodled your brain that you view PEPPERONI as a good thing?
> 
> “Pepperoni” is the threat whispered to Italian grandmothers to make them cry. It is no more pizza than Chef Boyardee is home made pasta al dente.



Oh you misunderstand me, sir.  I do not intend to imply that pepperoni is good for anything at all.  Nevertheless, those infernal red slices are for some reason the single-most common pizza topping in America...so common, in fact, that pizzerias stage and parbake them by the dozen to keep up with the demand.

Fools!  Don't they know that better pizza is just a whisper away?  Don't they understand that that Pepperoni Special has been sitting half-cooked on a shelf in the kitchen for an untold amount of time before it was delivered "hot and fresh" to their door?  All they have to do to improve their pizza experience is simply order a different topping--literally any topping, anything at all.  But no.  We must always play 5E D&D only...er, order the same boring pepperoni pizza, again and again.


----------



## CleverNickName

(It's a metaphor, you see.)


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> (It's a metaphor, you see.)



We have at last found Doug Piranha!


----------



## Cadence

It appears I underestimated previously.  None of us like that much of it at all?


----------



## darjr

Note that there is character death and exponential wizard power on display.


You have been warned.

For those of y’all that can’t handle the truth.


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> Note that there is character death and exponential wizard power on display.
> 
> 
> You have been warned.
> 
> For those of y’all that can’t handle the truth.



The truth?

_THE TRUTH?!_

Some people here can't even handle_ pineapple_.


----------



## darjr

The pineapple is a lie!


----------



## darjr

That is A take…. 

I have suspicions….

But best to just leave it.


----------



## payn

For Feb, the local station The Current here is featuring an AA artist/group each day. Today was Minneapolis group The Time. Their self titled album has them hanging out on the stoop of a condo. A condo I just happened to live in for a few years. A fun story to tell about a great local group. Happy Black history month folks!


----------



## BookTenTiger

Repeating to myself:

Don't take the bait.
Don't take the bait.
Don't take the bait.
Don't take the bait.
Don't take the bait.


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> Repeating to myself:
> 
> Don't take the bait.
> Don't take the bait.
> Don't take the bait.
> Don't take the bait.
> Don't take the bait.



Good luck on that will save!


----------



## billd91

darjr said:


> The pineapple is a lie!



What if it’s a pineapple upside down cake? If it‘s a lie there then life ain’t worth living.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> The pineapple is a lie!




The best way to tell a lie is to tell the truth and make it sound like a whopper.


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> What if it’s a pineapple upside down cake? If it‘s a lie there then life ain’t worth living.


----------



## darjr

Pineapple on pizza is a culinary invention and totally not an accident.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> The best way to tell a lie is to tell the truth and make it sound like a whopper.



My wife tells me I have a gift for lying by telling the truth. I told her I have sworn to use my powers only for good.

... She didn't believe me!


----------



## BookTenTiger

Some folks are really practicing that old adage:

"Always judge a book by its cover."


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> The best way to tell a lie is to tell the truth and make it sound like a whopper.



I spent some time a while back figuring out how to run things like this as skill checks ... just kinda inverted.

Using Deception to tell the truth and have someone believe you're lying.
Using Diplomacy to make an insult _really_ stick.
Using Stealth to give away your position when and where you want.

That sort of thing.


----------



## payn

Marvel is not D&D.


----------



## Deset Gled

payn said:


> Marvel is not D&D.




And pineapple upside down cake is not pizza.  Yet, here we are...


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Marvel is not D&D.



I mean, I can do one about the Silmarillion too.  Start with Samwise, a few humans, dwarves, and elves, Aragorn, Hurin, an elf or two, then Fingolfin, and Eonwe?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I mean, I can do one about the Silmarillion too.  Start with Samwise, a few humans, dwarves, and elves, Aragorn, Hurin, an elf or two, then Fingolfin, and Eonwe?



Or Conan the Destroyer and how its a great D&D movie!


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Or Conan the Destroyer and how its a great D&D movie!



After I fit Conan in between Aragorn and Hurin, who do I add in next from the Conan side?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> After I fit Conan in between Aragorn and Hurin, who do I add in next from the Conan side?



Malak the thief, Zula the monk, Bombatta the fighter, Akiro the wizard, Jehhna the Sorceress.


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> And pineapple upside down cake is not pizza.  Yet, here we are...



I know, im tired of being here. Tis a silly place.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Malak the thief, Zula the monk, Bombatta the fighter, Akiro the wizard, Jehhna the Sorceress.



The wizard and sorceress seem odd choices for the fighter list.

Maybe a thread where folks can add people on and then complain.


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Or Conan the Destroyer and how its a great D&D movie!



What is the implication here?


----------



## darjr

Misprinnted how? I dint see it.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> The wizard and sorceress seem odd choices for the fighter list.
> 
> Maybe a thread where folks can add people on and then complain.



Sorry got carried away with how awesome Conan the destroyer is.


----------



## Smackpixi

Is this the right place to share that not only do I put pineapples on pizza, but I put them in my regular pasta sauce, you know, like for spaghetti?


----------



## payn

Smackpixi said:


> Is this the right place to share that not only do I put pineapples on pizza, but I put them in my regular pasta sauce, you know, like for spaghetti?



We just reached next level folks.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Malak the thief, Zula the monk, Bombatta the fighter, Akiro the wizard, Jehhna the Sorceress.




Conan is on there...  too low? too high? too missing friends?









						D&D General - Fighters of Fantasy Literature - Tier List and Ranking!  (Vote once per day through February 14th).
					

There have been many heroes in fantasy literature that make there way by (mostly) being a "Fighter".  (Maybe Barbarian, Ranger, Battlemaster, Monk, or Rogue multi-classing in there too; and maybe in a fantasy movie).  So which tier do they go in?  Who do you love?  Vote until 11:59PM ET on...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## Parmandur

Smackpixi said:


> Is this the right place to share that not only do I put pineapples on pizza, but I put them in my regular pasta sauce, you know, like for spaghetti?



Not all heroes wear capes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Marvel is not D&D.




That's right. Everyone knows that D&D is .... DC, baby!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's right. Everyone knows that D&D is .... DC, baby!



I didnt even know this was a thing. Will have to investigate to see the power level of this publishing!


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I didnt even know this was a thing. Will have to investigate to see the power level of this publishing!



And that's not all!


----------



## Deset Gled

payn said:


> I didnt even know this was a thing. Will have to investigate to see the power level of this publishing!




The short story is that it was a licensing deal with DC, that Lorraine Williams killed by opening TSR West.

... er, apologies, I seem to have accidentally started actually discussing D&D.  Terribly sorry, wrong thread.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's right. Everyone knows that D&D is .... DC, baby!



My first thought:
_"Is... is that a barbarian in a fuzzy onesie?"_

My second thought:
_"No, it's a centaur! Whew!"_

My third thought:
_"I really like the sound of  "fuzzy onesie"."_


----------



## CleverNickName

Has anyone ever started a thread about how Wizards and Fighters are _complementary_, and not diametrically opposed?  I think a lot of folks forget that they are supposed to be cooperative members of a group, not warring individuals.


----------



## payn

PVP PVP PVP PVP PVP...


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> Has anyone ever started a thread about how Wizards and Fighters are _complementary_, and not diametrically opposed?  I think a lot of folks forget that they are supposed to be cooperative members of a group, not warring individuals.



No never. That would imply a game played by a group of friends. Or at least a group of friendly civil folks with a modest level of social generosity


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Has anyone ever started a thread about how Wizards and Fighters are _complementary_, and not diametrically opposed?  I think a lot of folks forget that they are supposed to be cooperative members of a group, not warring individuals.



Wait, you mean like Beren and Luthien or Raistlin and Caramom working together -- and with even more people than that joining in!?  What kind of story would that be!


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> No never. That would imply a game played by a group of friends. Or at least a group of friendly civil folks with a modest level of social generosity




Ah.  I see that you too have seen the fraying threads at ENWorld.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

darjr said:


> No never. That would imply a game played by a group of friends. Or at least a group of friendly civil folks with a modest level of social generosity



We're *nerds*. We're not supposed to have _friends_. 
/s


----------



## Cadence

Apropos of absolutely nothing except I quoted it on a social media site on this date in some past year.  And I think it's great.


"This is the magic trick upon which all good fiction depends:  it's the angled mirror in the box behind which the doves are hidden, the hidden compartment beneath the table.
It's this:  There is room for things to mean more than they literally mean."

- Neil Gaiman, Introduction to Kurt Busiek's Astro City: Confession


----------



## Cadence

I can tell you one thing.  If I was 20th level, Curling would be on broadcast or a streaming service I already paid for instead of cable or another  pay streaming!!!


----------



## darjr

Ope!


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Ope!



Every time you post that, I imagine plates being thrown around.


----------



## Parmandur

Like so:


----------



## darjr

It's a midwesterner thing.

Like "ya'll" and "dint" 

Or maybe Texan and Pilipino?

dunno

Ate!


----------



## darjr

Don't mean to call out folks, just to compliment all the faces I see.


----------



## darjr

Do they think we don’t see right through them? Do they not even suspect the tactic has been tried here innumerable times? Cmon!

It would be funny if it wasn’t so annoying.


----------



## darjr

Now that is the way you have someone come talk about your product. Well done.


----------



## Parmandur

That is so funny, because I only see one side of the argument: it seems like everyone is striving to be reasonable against...nothing,  randomly.


----------



## Mannahnin

darjr said:


> It's a midwesterner thing.
> 
> Like "ya'll" and "dint"
> 
> Or maybe Texan and Pilipino?
> 
> dunno
> 
> Ate!



Yup. 

The midwestern "ope", one syllable, to rhyme with "hope", which is sort of a weird, shortened, more nasals "oops", even though it sounds totally different.  As opposed to the Greek "opa" (ώπα), two syllables.  Though there's _some _overlap in meaning. "Ope!" is never said in a celebratory context, but "opa!" can also be said as an expression of shock, or having made a mistake.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Yup.
> 
> The midwestern "ope", one syllable, to rhyme with "hope", which is sort of a weird, shortened, more nasals "oops", even though it sounds totally different.  As opposed to the Greek "opa" (ώπα), two syllables.  Though there's _some _overlap in meaning. "Ope!" is never said in a celebratory context, but "opa!" can also be said as an expression of shock, or having made a mistake.


----------



## J.Quondam

Mannahnin said:


> Yup.
> 
> The midwestern "ope", one syllable, to rhyme with "hope", which is sort of a weird, shortened, more nasals "oops", even though it sounds totally different.  As opposed to the Greek "opa" (ώπα), two syllables.  Though there's _some _overlap in meaning. "Ope!" is never said in a celebratory context, but "opa!" can also be said as an expression of shock, or having made a mistake.



So... _ope!_ is like the Homeric* _d'oh!_, right?


_* No, not that Homer. The other Homer._


----------



## darjr

Ope!

Ates!


----------



## Mannahnin

J.Quondam said:


> So... _ope!_ is like the Homeric* _d'oh!_, right?
> 
> 
> _* No, not that Homer. The other Homer._



A little bit, at least.  It's also sort of a cross between "oops" and "ow".  A deferential and apologetic exclamation of surprise and dismay.  Homer's catchphrase generally lacks the apologetic element.


----------



## darjr

Homers always felt accusatory to me too.

Like “yea I messed up but it’s still your fault, or at least not mine”

While Ope is kinda “oh! Sorry, sorry, sorry everyone”


----------



## J.Quondam

It's neat how such little, informal words can be so complex in meaning and nuance. Interjections are cool!


----------



## payn




----------



## CleverNickName

This is a pretty common conversation where I come from:

Guy 1:  Dejewy jet?
Guy 2:  Naw, dejew?
Guy 1:  Naw, yontu?
Guy 2:  Aiyte, lesco.



Spoiler: English translation



Guy 1:  Did you eat yet?
Guy 2:  No, did you?
Guy 1:  No.  Do you want to?
Guy 2:  All right, let's go.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Homers always felt accusatory to me too.




I've been watching through the Simpsons over the pandemic - a show my wife and I watch during lunch.  And when Homer utters that, it is almost always self-directed.

When we, outside the show, use it, it is generally to indicate to _someone else_ that they "pulled a Homer," rather than in a self-depricating manner, so I can see that connotation arising.  But it doesn't seem to be in the original text, so to speak.  At least to me - ymmv.


----------



## Mannahnin

payn said:


>



One of my friends actively still uses this expression.  I remember having Scandinavian-American joke books called "Uff Da!" when I was a kid.  






						Uff Da Jokes: Stangland, E. C.: 9780960269242: Amazon.com: Books
					

Uff Da Jokes [Stangland, E. C.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Uff Da Jokes



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Parmandur

Isn't that a VeggieTales thing?


----------



## Cadence

My first one.  But it was either that or really cheese off certain people. (No, it's not about Pizza!)


----------



## Cadence

I want to suggest starting the next thread with "And we're not talking about pineapple in this one."  

But seriously, is there a way to have a semi-plus thread where you just don't want one topic brought up?  Can that be done just by putting it in the first post and then reminding the person who brings it up that that one aspect is off limits?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I want to suggest starting the next thread with "And we're not talking about pineapple in this one."
> 
> But seriously, is there a way to have a semi-plus thread where you just don't want one topic brought up?  Can that be done just by putting it in the first post and then reminding the person who brings it up that that one aspect is off limits?



You'd hope.

Good luck with that.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I want to suggest starting the next thread with "And we're not talking about pineapple in this one."
> 
> But seriously, is there a way to have a semi-plus thread where you just don't want one topic brought up?  Can that be done just by putting it in the first post and then reminding the person who brings it up that that one aspect is off limits?



IDK, this sounds like you want to discuss a topic, but put boundaries on it. Without knowing what you are talking about advice on that is hard. I dont think using the + thread option is good for this. Your best bet might be to just ask in the OP folks not talk about a tangent or related topic, and just ignore folks who do anyways. As an OP be a steward of your thread and try and keep it on topic and away from distractions. It's all you can do.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Cadence said:


> I want to suggest starting the next thread with "And we're not talking about pineapple in this one."
> 
> But seriously, is there a way to have a semi-plus thread where you just don't want one topic brought up?  Can that be done just by putting it in the first post and then reminding the person who brings it up that that one aspect is off limits?



I mean, yes you probably could do that, but I feel like even straightforward + threads are already sometimes skirting a line of restraining particular veins of dissenting opinion in a way that many would-be commenters are prone to bristle at. Outright naming the specific not-in-this-thread topic(s) seems like a hellish ordeal to try to police and probably not ultimately likely to foster the discussion you want.

But I suppose it all really depends what the mystery pineapple is.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> I want to suggest starting the next thread with "And we're not talking about pineapple in this one."
> 
> But seriously, is there a way to have a semi-plus thread where you just don't want one topic brought up?  Can that be done just by putting it in the first post and then reminding the person who brings it up that that one aspect is off limits?




Yes, I would use a (+) thread to do this. Label it accordingly, and state very clearly in the OP "we don't talk about Bruno in this thread". There are limits to what you can keep out, but it's worth a shot.

Of course it should go with saying (but I'll say it anyway) that it is very important to follow your own rule.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I often find myself wanting to make a thread that I developed the idea of when thinking about a broader controversial topic, but also don't want that thread I'm making to fall into the same flame wars as the ones it was inspired by. I don't know how to do that, and don't know if it's possible. I enjoy (+) threads, but also want to have a thread discussing these ideas with disagreements without people going back to the old, divisive topics that inspired it. 

I tried this with my more recent threads, and while it's mostly worked, thanks to most of them being (+) threads, there were still a few people threadcrapping and going off on tangents that were distracting and detracting the main premise. I'm guessing that this's just inherent on starting a public conversation on the internet, but really wish that we could be better than that.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I often find myself wanting to make a thread that I developed the idea of when thinking about a broader controversial topic, but also don't want that thread I'm making to fall into the same flame wars as the ones it was inspired by. I don't know how to do that, and don't know if it's possible. I enjoy (+) threads, but also want to have a thread discussing these ideas with disagreements without people going back to the old, divisive topics that inspired it.
> 
> I tried this with my more recent threads, and while it's mostly worked, thanks to most of them being (+) threads, there were still a few people threadcrapping and going off on tangents that were distracting and detracting the main premise. I'm guessing that this's just inherent on starting a public conversation on the internet, but really wish that we could be better than that.



Concupiscence is one helluva drug.


----------



## Umbran

Benjamin Olson said:


> Outright naming the specific not-in-this-thread topic(s) seems like a hellish ordeal to try to police




Yeah. 

And, in any case, I'm already finding I have to warn folks away from bringing the pineapple shtick in general discussion.  It is an in-joke that you don't have to subject _everybody_ to, and starts running afoul of the "Keep it on topic" rule that we almost never have to mention.


----------



## darjr

What a waste.


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> This is a pretty common conversation where I come from:
> 
> Guy 1:  Dejewy jet?
> Guy 2:  Naw, dejew?
> Guy 1:  Naw, yontu?
> Guy 2:  Aiyte, lesco.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: English translation
> 
> 
> 
> Guy 1:  Did you eat yet?
> Guy 2:  No, did you?
> Guy 1:  No.  Do you want to?
> Guy 2:  All right, let's go.



That joke died with Jeff Foxworthy's career.


----------



## Cadence

I assume y'all actually run fun games and your players enjoy them.  So why do you sound like such miserable SOBs on here so often?


----------



## nevin

take 100 DM's and put em in a room and no more than 10 of them will agree on anything.  And we all think our way is the right way, because it obviously works for us.....


----------



## darjr

What do they say about making assumptions?


----------



## darjr

nevin said:


> take 100 DM's and put em in a room and no more than 10 of them will agree on anything.  And we all think our way is the right way, because it obviously works for us.....



No, that can’t be right?


----------



## Cadence

I mean, sure, he never actually lied to a kid that it was cheese (or pepperoni), when it was actually pineapple and tuna.  But he talked about it a _lot_ and it seems like he would have pulled that trick, a _lot_, if he had the opportunity and wasn't a coward.


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> What a waste.


----------



## payn

No...No...No no. Just no.


----------



## CleverNickName

Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition is grossly underrated.


----------



## Cadence

I keep wanting to type things here and then picturing our friendly neighborhood mod looking at it on his screen.  Apparently I do slightly have a filter.  (Appearances to the contrary.)


----------



## dragoner

CleverNickName said:


> Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition is grossly underrated.



Last I bought was sixth.


----------



## darjr

We can follow?!


----------



## CleverNickName

Woah.  How many "Fighters vs. Wizards" threads are currently active?


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Woah.  How many "Fighters vs. Wizards" threads are currently active?



All of them.


----------



## Parmandur

Ooooooh, the Wizard and the Fighter should Beeee frieeends....


----------



## darjr

Outhouse mimic.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> Outhouse mimic.
> 
> View attachment 151421


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> Outhouse mimic.
> 
> View attachment 151421



I dunno... I've seen some _real_ outhouses that were way scarier.


----------



## payn

Player PTSD from mimics is always hilarious. In one campaign a player fell victim to a mimic that turned into a hammock. The rest of the campaign whenever the party saw a hammock they got out daggers and cut it to shreds.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Parmandur said:


> Like so:



It is amusing, and so wrong, to watch the non-Greeks breaking plates in this video.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

payn said:


> Player PTSD from mimics is always hilarious. In one campaign a player fell victim to a mimic that turned into a hammock. The rest of the campaign whenever the party saw a hammock they got out daggers and cut it to shreds.



In my Spelljammer campaign I introduced a planet where everything on it was a Mimic . . . including the planet. 

Let's just say, my players were not enthused about that encounter. It ended up being a worse encounter than the Planet of Tarrasques.


----------



## Parmandur

AnotherGuy said:


> It is amusing, and so wrong, to watch the non-Greeks breaking plates at a Greek wedding.



The plates aren't going to break themselves, someone has to do it.


----------



## J.Quondam

What would make that plate-breaking wedding dance encounter more interesting?
A dishware mimic.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Parmandur said:


> The plates aren't going to break themselves, someone has to do it.



Fair, but the over-the-top plate-throwing leaps by these Aussies is on par with using a sledgehammer on a cockroach. In their defense it looks fun and that is the most important part


----------



## Ryujin

AnotherGuy said:


> It is amusing, and so wrong, to watch the non-Greeks breaking plates in this video.



Jeez, people! Casual fling, not attempted homicide!!


----------



## Cadence

Interested to see if their support of the stuff in Ottawa affects anything...


----------



## Cadence

"Sure, they might have swindled kids by selling them pineapple and tuna pizza labeled as plain cheese, but at least they kept the sidewalk shoveled in the winter."


----------



## darjr

Gah! So familiar.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> Gah! So familiar.



Mountain bikers vx. hikers, in the Oughts.


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> Mountain bikers vx. hikers, in the Oughts.



Trail runners on the mountain bike paths.

I was both and got yelled at by both.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> Trail runners on the mountain bike paths.
> 
> I was both and got yelled at by both.



My wife did a paper on the topic while she was in grad school. It ends up being a matter of competing good, kinda, which makes it complicated to solve and difficult to sell any solution.

We day-hike, some, and we've never had bad experiences with any other trail-users. For what that's worth.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Trail runners on the mountain bike paths.
> 
> I was both and got yelled at by both.




Tourists v. people that actually live there.

Town v. gown.

Pedestrians v. drivers. 

Me v. people that are wrong.


----------



## payn

Feet vs acorns?


----------



## prabe

Pineapples vs. pizza?


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> My wife did a paper on the topic while she was in grad school. It ends up being a matter of competing good, kinda, which makes it complicated to solve and difficult to sell any solution.
> 
> We day-hike, some, and we've never had bad experiences with any other trail-users. For what that's worth.



It was rare. So much I was always shocked when it happened. Most of the time people were happy to see people on the trail.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Pineapples vs. pizza?



This vs EN world (which has taken a  mother loving beating at this point...)


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> This vs EN world (which has taken a  mother loving beating at this point...)



I'm a subscriber to a few websites and services, I don't think many suffer quite as much to earn that money as ENWorld does (I really hope the mods get something for their work!) 

I'm pretty sure in my first week modding I would put some injudicious red ink out, and not get it changed before it got screenshotted and exploded on Twitter.


----------



## darjr

Yea. It’s weird getting YouTube videos recommended to me from folks I’ve never heard of and my face is in their thumbnail.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I'm a subscriber to a few websites and services, I don't think many suffer quite as much to earn that money as ENWorld does (I really hope the mods get something for their work!)
> 
> I'm pretty sure in my first week modding I would put some injudicious red ink out, and not get it changed before it got screenshotted and exploded on Twitter.



I dont think the in jokes need mod interruption, just folks to realize when they are long past dead and in full blown zombie mode.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I dont think the in jokes need mod interruption, just folks to realize when they are long past dead and in full blown zombie mode.




Once you embrace Pizza and Pineapple for allegory and/or analog, it's hard to tell what's a joke and what is trying to avoid red text.


----------



## darjr

In my defense I completely misunderstood


----------



## darjr

As long as the zombies aren’t part of the pizza.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> As long as the zombies aren’t part of the pizza.




Do you become a zombie if you eat a zombie pizza? Is that a good way to get more customer for your brains pizza?


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> I'm a subscriber to a few websites and services, I don't think many suffer quite as much to earn that money as ENWorld does (I really hope the mods get something for their work!)




Moderators here are volunteers, and are not paid for their services.  We do it for the community, not compensation.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> Moderators here are volunteers, and are not paid for their services.  We do it for the community, not compensation.



TY


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Moderators here are volunteers, and are not paid for their services.  We do it for the community, not compensation.



Thank you very much for doing this for us all!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Moderators here are volunteers, and are not paid for their services.  We do it for the community, not compensation.




I'd buy you a pizza!

...I couldn't guarantee the toppings. After all, good moderation means sometimes people think you deserve the pineapple.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'd buy you a pizza!
> 
> ...I couldn't guarantee the toppings. After all, good moderation means sometimes people think you deserve the pineapple.




Annual buy the mods some Pizza day?  (We could do it on Pi day.  Seems like a small amount for a go fund me, and they'd have to trust the orderer with some of their info. Do we seem trustable?)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Do we seem trustable?


----------



## billd91

To whom it may concern:
If a thread is discussing things of substance (rather than fun with pineapple) you don't like it to discuss, you can choose not to participate in the thread.
That is all.


----------



## Gradine

billd91 said:


> To whom it may concern:
> If a thread is discussing things of substance (rather than fun with pineapple) you don't like it to discuss, you can choose not to participate in the thread.
> That is all.



Sometimes, you need to bury the dead horse. It's been beaten enough.


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Sometimes, you need to bury the dead horse. It's been beaten enough.



Dead horse burying is one of the reasons I think there should be "Buy the Mods a Pizza Day".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Sometimes, you need to bury the dead horse. It's been beaten enough.




This is a D&D forum.

Some necromancer will re-animate the horse in the mistaken belief that this time, if they just beat it hard enough*, they will get awarded XP and level up. 

....they are wrong. 



*That's a phrase that's just begging to be taken out of context.


----------



## Aeson

And some rogue will steal the pizza money. Maybe if the pizza was a mimic. Can mods digest mimic?


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This is a D&D forum.
> 
> Some necromancer will re-animate the horse in the mistaken belief that this time, if they just beat it hard enough*, they will get awarded XP and level up.
> 
> ....they are wrong.



Are they, though?


Snarf Zagyg said:


> *That's a phrase that's just begging to be taken out of context.



Save the Onanism cracks for the Bible thread, you


----------



## J.Quondam

Gradine said:


> Save the Onanism cracks for the Bible thread, you



Coffee, meet keyboard. Keyboard, coffee.
dammit.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Save the Onanism cracks for the Bible thread, you




I was thinking about starting a thread in geek culture-

80s songs that weren't about, or rumored to be about, choking the chicken self indulgence. 
_A very short list. _

But then I thought I would just go, like a blister in the sun.


----------



## payn

Everybody Wang Chung today.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 80s songs that weren't about, or rumored to be about, choking the chicken.
> _A very short list. _



I just assume every song is about that and move on with my life.


Alternatively, you could start competing lists: "songs using love as a metaphor for addiction" and "songs using addiction as a metaphor for love"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Everybody Wang Chung today.




Oop, she bop, she bop


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Oop, she bop, she bop



This is where I'd quote The Vapors, but the OA thread got shut down


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Alternatively, you could start competing lists: "songs using love as a metaphor for addiction" and "songs using addiction as a metaphor for love"




I prefer the competing lists of-

Addiction as a metaphor for addiction

as opposed to

Addiction as a metaphor for, boy, heroin is pretty awesome, amirite?


Edit- I may be unclear on the definition of metaphor, as I am a master of the single entendre.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> This is where I'd quote The Vapors, but the OA thread got shut down




I was hoping someone was going to spike that!

.... otherwise I'd be dancing with myself.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Addiction as a metaphor for addiction



This opened with a YouTube ad for the Disney+ documentary on the Beatles called "Get Back", which is something I don't think I'll be able to top today


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> This opened with a YouTube ad for the Disney+ documentary on the Beatles called "Get Back", which is something I don't think I'll be able to top today




The google advertising algorithms work in mysterious ways.

-The videos are K's Choice _Not an addict_ and, of course, _Heroin _by VU respectively. Bonus fun fact- neither are about Darlin' Nikki ... since neither are from the 80s. The more you know!


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Bonus fun fact- neither are about Darlin' Nikki ... since neither are from the 80s. The more you know!



_Shhhh! _You don't want to summon Tipper Gore again, do you? Hasn't she done enough damage?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> _Shhhh! _You don't want to summon Tipper Gore again, do you? Hasn't she done enough damage?




I'd love to summon Tipper Gore right now, make her listen to 1000 hours of Soundcloud rappers, and then have her pen a personal apology for wasting John Denver's time.

(In all seriousness, I know that there are multiple good reasons to make fun of Tipper Gore, but in fairness we all contain multitudes, and she was out there supporting the LGBTQ+ community long before it was fashionable - politically advantageous- to do so. Most people genuinely believe they are doing the right thing.)


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Edit- I may be unclear on the definition of metaphor, as I am a master of the single entendre.



Isn't there a bit in Pratchett where one of the Witches makes jokes that she thought of as "double-intenders" but which really were single-intenders and proud of if?

Unrelated: I need to reread Pratchett.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Isn't there a bit in Pratchett where one of the Witches makes jokes that she thought of as "double-intenders" but which really were single-intenders and proud of if?
> 
> Unrelated: I need to reread Pratchett.




_Chad and Jessica had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who had also never met._


My greatest desire is that someday, Netflix will create and air the English pedants' version of _Nailed It!_


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> Isn't there a bit in Pratchett where one of the Witches makes jokes that she thought of as "double-intenders" but which really were single-intenders and proud of if?
> 
> Unrelated: I need to reread Pratchett.



Nanny Ogg


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Nanny Ogg



It's been so long since I read the books that I can't really keep them straight. As I said, I have some rereading I need to do.


----------



## CleverNickName

Granny Weatherwax is best Granny.


----------



## Mannahnin

prabe said:


> It's been so long since I read the books that I can't really keep them straight. As I said, I have some rereading I need to do.



Yes, Nanny Ogg frequently made such single-intenders.  And famously would get drink and sing a song about a hedgehog...

Her coven-mate Granny Weatherwax is one of my favorite witches ever.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Granny Weatherwax is best Granny.



Or worst. I remember thinking she was a bit of a bully.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> Or worst. I remember thinking she was a bit of a bully.



Yeah, I can see that.  She definitely has that "take no B.S." attitude, and she's certainly not grandmotherly in that bake-you-some-cookies kind of way.  She doesn't suffer fools, though, and that's what I like best about her.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> Granny Weatherwax is best Granny.





Mannahnin said:


> Yes, Nanny Ogg frequently made such single-intenders.  And famously would get drink and sing a song about a hedgehog...
> 
> Her coven-mate Granny Weatherwax is one of my favorite witches ever.



As someone with theological training and strong religous commitments, Carpe Jugulum is one of my favorite literary treatments of religous belief and doubt.


----------



## Mannahnin

Parmandur said:


> As someone with theological training and strong religous commitments, Carpe Jugulum is one of my favorite literary treatments of religous belief and doubt.



As someone with clerical training and strong religious commitments, this is encouraging me to dive back into Pratchett, as I never got around to that one back in the day.


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> Sometimes, you need to bury the dead horse. It's been beaten enough.




Or at least walk away from it.

Did you know it is quite possible for a dead horse to explode?


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> Or at least walk away from it.
> 
> Did you know it is quite possible for a dead horse to explode?



A dead whale famously exploded not too far from here, back in the day.

(It had help.  Like, multiple sticks of dynamite.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Did you know it is quite possible for a dead horse to explode?




Sometimes the live horses do, too.


----------



## Parmandur

Mannahnin said:


> As someone with clerical training and strong religious commitments, this is encouraging me to dive back into Pratchett, as I never got around to that one back in the day.



It's so good, so deeply serious and important yet so goofy.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> She doesn't suffer fools, though, and that's what I like best about her.



I'm not arguing much or hard here, but a failure mode of "doesn't suffer fools" is naughty word. To paraphrase one SF writer while thinking of another. (Paraphrasing Scalzi, thinking about H. Ellison--whom I've seen described as "an naughty word who wrote like a dream.") It *has* been a while, and my wife adores Pratchett's witches, so it's possible I was or am wrong.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> It's so good, so deeply serious and important yet so goofy.



I remember _Small Gods_ and _Jingo_ playing in similar fields, though they might not appeal as much to readers with strong commitments (which I don't have).


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> I'm not arguing much or hard here, but a failure mode of "doesn't suffer fools" is naughty word. To paraphrase one SF writer while thinking of another. (Paraphrasing Scalzi, thinking about H. Ellison--whom I've seen described as "an naughty word who wrote like a dream.") It *has* been a while, and my wife adores Pratchett's witches, so it's possible I was or am wrong.



She is not a perfect person: the Coven is interesting in that all three women bring something positive, and need the other two to check their personal failings.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> I remember _Small Gods_ and _Jingo_ playing in similar fields, though they might not appeal as much to readers with strong commitments (which I don't have).



No, those are both great, too, but Carpe Jugulum presents Prathcett's religous sense at it's best.


----------



## Gradine

prabe said:


> I'm not arguing much or hard here, but a failure mode of "doesn't suffer fools" is naughty word. To paraphrase one SF writer while thinking of another. (Paraphrasing Scalzi, thinking about H. Ellison--whom I've seen described as "an naughty word who wrote like a dream.") It *has* been a while, and my wife adores Pratchett's witches, so it's possible I was or am wrong.



My favorite Harlan Ellison factoid is when he voiced an absolutely hilarious caricature of himself in the 2010 Scooby Doo series. Man knew who he was.


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> My favorite Harlan Ellison factoid is when he voiced an absolutely hilarious caricature of himself in the 2010 Scooby Doo series. Man knew who he was.



My favorite of his self-descriptions was along the lines of "Anything between me and what I want tends to end up with a Harlan-sized hole in it."


----------



## CleverNickName

Man.  That thread certainly took off...


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> My favorite of his self-descriptions was along the lines of "Anything between me and what I want tends to end up with a Harlan-sized hole in it."




Harlan Ellison was one my closest encounters with someone famous. Someone I was working for at a convention In Philadelphia took me to lunch with him and Julie Schwartz of DC comics.  He told some great stories of some time with the Rolling Stones.  He asked me a question (don't remember what), my starstruck answer was vapid, and he definitely made me feel like an idiot.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> A dead whale famously exploded not too far from here, back in the day.
> 
> (It had help.  Like, multiple sticks of dynamite.)




A horse can do it without human assistance.  My wife learned this empirically while in vet school.  A horse came in for a necropsy after a couple of days lying out in the summer sun, with guts full of fermenting grass.  My wife figured out what was about to happen, and made the leap into the freezer just in time. 

Her necropsy partner... didn't.  It was... smelly and messy.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> A horse can do it without human assistance.  My wife learned this empirically while in vet school.  A horse came in for a necropsy after a couple of days lying out in the summer sun, with guts full of fermenting grass.  My wife figured out what was about to happen, and made the leap into the freezer just in time.
> 
> Her necropsy partner... didn't.  It was... smelly and messy.



Sometimes auto assist happens. A friend was rolling down the highway and a deer ran out. The car in front of him hit the deer, which sent it airborne into his windshield. Entire cab of his pickup was coated in guts, except a silhouette of a person on the driver's seat...


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Sometimes auto assist happens. A friend was rolling down the highway and a deer ran out. The car in front of him hit the deer, which sent it airborne into his windshield. Entire cab of his pickup was coated in guts, except a silhouette of a person on the driver's seat...



Negative space ftw.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Sometimes auto assist happens. A friend was rolling down the highway and a deer ran out. The car in front of him hit the deer, which sent it airborne into his windshield. Entire cab of his pickup was coated in guts, except a silhouette of a person on the driver's seat...



Well...bright side, I guess, he got some free pizza toppings.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> Well...bright side, I guess, he got some free pizza toppings.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Well...bright side, I guess, he got some free pizza toppings.



The deer was made of pineapples?


----------



## Gradine

Ground Venison Pizza: Your Venison Burger Never Tasted So Good
					

Here’s the best way to create your own ground venison pizza and enjoy the kind of meal you’ve been waiting for.




					www.wideopenspaces.com


----------



## CleverNickName

Don't tell me that sausage is now off-limits as a pizza topping.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> The deer was made of pineapples?



No, but it's worth trying pineapple and venison, I say.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> Don't tell me that sausage is now off-limits as a pizza topping.



Haven't you heard? Absolutely nothing is off limits as a pizza topping, it's purely a matter of will.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> Haven't you heard? Absolutely nothing is off limits as a pizza topping, it's purely a matter of will.



This is the way.  Play the game Order the pizza that you want!  Don't let anyone tell you what you can and cannot enjoy!

(It continues to be a metaphor, you see.)


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Haven't you heard? Absolutely nothing is off limits as a pizza topping, it's purely a matter of will.



WHAT IF I LIKE WILL AND I DON'T WANT TO EAT HIM


----------



## Gradine

I mean, one of the best pizzas I have ever ate had anchovies and kimchi on it.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> WHAT IF I LIKE WILL AND I DON'T WANT TO EAT HIM



Well, such is your will, I suppose.


----------



## CleverNickName

I've never had kimchi on a pizza, but I don't mind anchovies.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> I mean, one of the best pizzas I have ever ate had anchovies and kimchi on it.



Now that's what I'm talking about.


----------



## billd91

prabe said:


> WHAT IF I LIKE WILL AND I DON'T WANT TO EAT HIM


----------



## Gradine

I built it at a make-your-own-pizza party. I brought the anchovies, the host provided the kimchi, together with, I want to say pickled jalapenos, and it was an absolute delight. I named it the "No Kisses For Me Tonight"


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> The deer was made of pineapples?



Like a pineapple piñata? Piñatapple???


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> I built it at a make-your-own-pizza party. I brought the anchovies, the host provided the kimchi, together with, I want to say pickled jalapenos, and it was an absolute delight. I named it the "No Kisses For Me Tonight"



Perfection.


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> View attachment 151475



This was *exactly* what I was thinking of. Thanks for finding it.


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> I built it at a make-your-own-pizza party. I brought the anchovies, the host provided the kimchi, together with, I want to say pickled jalapenos, and it was an absolute delight. I named it the "No Kisses For Me Tonight"


----------



## Gradine

https://www.doordash.com/store/don's-donuts-&-deli-arcata-472307/

Best local place to get food, period. Great donuts, great wings, great pizzas, great _bagel _pizzas...

The Spicy Chicken Masterpiece and the Shrimp Lovers are my jams; the Hot Pastrami must be new, I'd give that a spin too


----------



## darjr

I used to like pizza.

I used to like you people too.

Some of you anyway.


----------



## Gradine

Parmandur said:


> Perfection.


----------



## billd91

Gradine said:


> I built it at a make-your-own-pizza party. I brought the anchovies, the host provided the kimchi, together with, I want to say pickled jalapenos, and it was an absolute delight. I named it the "No Kisses For Me Tonight"



I've enjoyed anchovies and jalapeños on pizza but have never tried kimchi. I'm down to check it out, though.


----------



## Gradine

My partner's preference is for a pizza that's basically a Hawaiian except instead of marinara it has barbebue sauce, and I cannot think of a most apt utilization of this gif than that


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I used to like pizza.
> 
> I used to like you people too.
> 
> Some of you anyway.



What is pizza, really? And what are any of us. Just dust in the wind.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> what are any of us. Just dust in the wind.




Just not on any pizza, please.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> My partner's preference is for a pizza that's basically a Hawaiian except instead of marinara it has barbebue sauce, and I cannot think of a most apt utilization of this gif than that



The marinara is more desirable, due to the interplay of the pineapple and tomatoes' acidity, but...intriguing.


----------



## Gradine

Kimchi is an incredibly underrated topping in general. I am always sad when I'm out of kimchi because I ate the entire jar in one sitting and I want more kimchi


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> My partner's preference is for a pizza that's basically a Hawaiian except instead of marinara it has barbebue sauce, and I cannot think of a most apt utilization of this gif than that



I don't mind barbeque sauce pizzas, but yeah id prefer traditional with a Hawaiian style


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Kimchi is an incredibly underrated topping in general. I am always sad when I'm out of kimchi because I ate the entire jar in one sitting and I want more kimchi



One of the best burritos I ever had was Lingua with kimchi in it from this really legit Korean/Mexican fusion food cart.


----------



## Parmandur

Oh man, now I want a kimchi and beef tongue pizza...


----------



## darjr

Gradine said:


> Kimchi is an incredibly underrated topping in general. I am always sad when I'm out of kimchi because I ate the entire jar in one sitting and I want more kimchi



I have done this. Kimchi is good. So now I must say adeui because I can’t have that ruined.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> Oh man, now I want a kimchi and beef tongue pizza...



Too late.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Too late.



Beef tongue is exquisite and delicate, it is significantly less weird as a topping than it sounds like.


----------



## Gradine

Parmandur said:


> Oh man, now I want a kimchi and beef tongue pizza...



Oh damn I haven't had lengua in ages, that sounds amazing


----------



## RealAlHazred

Parmandur said:


> Haven't you heard? Absolutely nothing is off limits as a pizza topping, it's purely a matter of will.



I only use Will's Spirit as a pizza topping, never his Matter. It's just a taste thing.


----------



## J.Quondam

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I only use Will's Spirit as a pizza topping, never his Matter. It's just a taste thing.



Probably fewer calories, too, I imagine.


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> Probably fewer calories, too, I imagine.



Look, as a diabetic they told me to watch my Carb intake, nobody said anything about souls...


----------



## CleverNickName

Me, reading all the posts in the thread about unique and exciting pizza toppings from all over the world:


----------



## darjr

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Look, as a diabetic they told me to watch my Carb intake, nobody said anything about souls...



It’s the fourth Macro.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Oh damn I haven't had lengua in ages, that sounds amazing



Yeah, I might go to Chavez's next time I get groceries, get some meat for a pizza...


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

If you recognize that you're not being fair in your reaction to the recent changes in the hobby as well as the fact that your biases make you more prone to overreact to minor stuff just because you don't like the new direction . . . how are you still having a problem with this? One would think that being self-aware of your own biases would make you change your behavior and reactions, right?


----------



## RealAlHazred

AcererakTriple6 said:


> If you recognize that you're not being fair in your reaction to the recent changes in the hobby as well as the fact that your biases make you more prone to overreact to minor stuff just because you don't like the new direction . . . how are you still having a problem with this? One would think that being self-aware of your own biases would make you change your behavior and reactions, right?



I said I was aware that I was biased.

I didn't say that that knowledge would make me change anything. I _like_ my biases! That's why I have them!


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Look, as a diabetic they told me to watch my Carb intake, nobody said anything about souls...



Souls are very high in fibre.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Souls are very high in fibre.




That’s why elves are low-fiber.

Eat all the elves you want - won’t help you stay regular.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That’s why elves are low-fiber.
> 
> Eat all the elves you want - won’t help you stay regular.



I've heard they are a great sleep aid.


----------



## darjr

Yup.


----------



## Sabathius42

An adventure is a thing and not a person.


----------



## Parmandur

Sabathius42 said:


> An adventure is a thing and not a person.



I'd say an Adventure is a cookbook.


----------



## darjr

With PCs as the meat.


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> WHAT IF I LIKE WILL AND I DON'T WANT TO EAT HIM




Will isn't on the pizza.  Will delivers the pizza.


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> Oh man, now I want a kimchi and beef tongue pizza...




Pizza that _tastes you back_.


----------



## darjr

Francisco Segura's Drawception Profile
					

Francisco Segura has drawn 11 drawings and authored 14 captions across 25 games. They follow 1 players and have 1 followers. They've earned a total of 67 emotes!




					drawception.com


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> Pizza that _tastes you back_.



I can say from experience thst eating beef tongue is fantastic when cut right out of the cow's mouth on the spit.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I said I was aware that I was biased.
> 
> I didn't say that that knowledge would make me change anything. I _like_ my biases! That's why I have them!



I know you're joking, but I know some people that really act like this. Most of them seem to think that if they admit that they have biases that that somehow make them unbiased (kind of like the "I admit that I'm stupid, and no one should take advice from me, but this is my take on X subject"), but I do know people that genuinely think that having biases somehow make them _more _objective.


----------



## darjr

In scouts we ate a lot of that. I prepped a lot of it. No more thanks.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> In scouts we ate a lot of that. I prepped a lot of it. No more thanks.



Natural is beautiful.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Natural is beautiful.




Nature is delicious.

Cheetos are delicious.

Therefore, nature is Cheetos.


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Nature is delicious.
> 
> Cheetos are delicious.
> 
> Therefore, nature is Cheetos.



…and Cheetos are natural?


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Nature is delicious.
> 
> Cheetos are delicious.
> 
> Therefore, nature is Cheetos.



Inarguable point.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Nature is delicious.
> 
> Cheetos are delicious.
> 
> Therefore, nature is Cheetos.



What about Takis?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> What about Takis?




Takis have been banned by the Geneva Conventions. That we still use them on prisoners and teens (but I repeat myself) in the United States demonstrates our low adherence to international law.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Takis have been banned by the Geneva Conventions. That we still use them on prisoners and teens (but I repeat myself) in the United States demonstrates our low adherence to international law.



Still natural tho? Like strychnine?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Still natural tho? Like strychnine?




I'm the one natural one, buy some Takis
We can eat it inside
Where I can spice it how I like if I want it
Whatever keeps me high...

Yeah, we can eat it
Or snort the dust on an endless spree
Good because we love it
And when momma's not around
There's no telling what we'll eat when we're free

I'm the one natural one, buy some  Taki
We can eat it inside
I can have it cause I act like I love it
It's a matter of pride

Yeah, we can eat it
Or snort it up on an endless spree
Good because we love it
Your world is falling down, you may as well go fuego with me


----------



## darjr

Like lead


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm the one natural one, buy some Takis
> We can eat it inside
> Where I can spice it how I like if I want it
> Whatever keeps me high...
> 
> Yeah, we can eat it
> Or snort the dust on an endless spree
> Good because we love it
> And when momma's not around
> There's no telling what we'll eat when we're free
> 
> I'm the one natural one, buy some  Taki
> We can eat it inside
> I can have it cause I act like I love it
> It's a matter of pride
> 
> Yeah, we can eat it
> Or snort it up on an endless spree
> Good because we love it
> Your world is falling down, you may as well go fuego with me



Yeah Yeah and its ok
I tied my hands up to the can so I dont fall that way
Yeah Yeah and its all right
I took a bite of some takis but I'll hold on tight


----------



## dragoner

What are takis?


----------



## darjr

Dragonlance pizza


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> What are takis?



Takis
https://barcel-usa.com/takis


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> What are takis?




The favorite pizza topping of @CleverNickName


----------



## darjr

Pizza is not a pizza topping.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Pizza is not a pizza topping.




Pizzas, all the way down. We have reached the stage of infinite regression.


----------



## darjr

That’s just a thicc’r pizza.


----------



## dragoner

I guess I don't eat stuff like that.


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> I guess I don't eat stuff like that.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> What about Takis?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> I guess I don't eat stuff like that.




Don't eat them. 

The best way to get the Takis is to take them intravenously. You want them to hit the bloodstream as quick as possible.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Don't eat them.
> 
> The best way to get the Takis is to take them intravenously. You want them to hit the bloodstream as quick as possible.



If the Takis are pure enough you can grind them into snuff.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> If the Takis are pure enough you can grind them into snuff.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The favorite pizza topping of @CleverNickName



I've never had them on a pizza.  But since I had to Google what a "Taki" was, this is probably not true.



darjr said:


> Pizza is not a pizza topping.



It is, though.  The "double decker" pizza has been a thing for decades.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I've never had them on a pizza.  But since I had to Google what a "Taki" was, this is probably not true.




 CleverNickName, you do not yet realize the importance of Takis. You have only begun to google their power. Put them on pizza, and you will complete your training.  You know the power of the Dark Side of New Zealand toppings ... now is the time to complete your training.

Do not deny your love of Takis on pizza. Search your feelings, CleverNickName, you know it to be true!


----------



## dragoner

.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> CleverNickName, you do not yet realize the importance of Takis. You have only begun to google their power. Put them on pizza, and you will complete your training.  You know the power of the Dark Side of New Zealand toppings ... now is the time to complete your training.
> 
> Do not deny your love of Takis on pizza. Search your feelings, CleverNickName, you know it to be true!



I mean, I'm not _opposed _to the idea, I've just never had it before.  I suppose I could give it a try; I think they sell Takis at the corner store right next to the Mountain Dew, Red Bull, and other almost-foods.

Tell you what: next time we make homemade pizzas, I'll give them a try.  For science.


----------



## darjr

That’s just two pizzas……


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> That’s just two pizzas……









BEHOLD! Eating perfection. It has all your basic food groups-

Your pizza group.
Your hamburger group.
Your french fry group.
Your cheese group.
...and your bacon group.


Note to self- we need to move the dial on this to 11. 
A. Add takis.
B. Fry the whole thing.
C. Put it on a stick.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> BEHOLD! Eating perfection. It has all your basic food groups-
> 
> Your pizza group.
> Your hamburger group.
> Your french fry group.
> Your cheese group.
> ...and your bacon group.
> 
> 
> Note to self- we need to move the dial on this to 11.
> A. Add takis.
> B. Fry the whole thing.
> C. Put it on a stick.


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> What about Takis?




I keep getting thrown by this, because "Takis" is the homeworld of a major character in the Wild Card shared world anthology series.  I would not want a Takis pizza, because the Takisians are big on bioweaponry, and they'd probably be trying to make you into patient zero for a virus that mutates people in walruses, or something.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> I keep getting thrown by this, because "Takis" is the homeworld of a major character in the Wild Card shared world anthology series.  I would not want a Takis pizza, because the Takisians are big on bioweaponry, and they'd probably be trying to make you into patient zero for a virus that mutates people in walruses, or something.



Takisians have a lot in common with Takis.


----------



## darjr

My heart jumped out and ran away


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Pizza is not a pizza topping.



Challenge accepted.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Gradine

darjr said:


> Pizza is not a pizza topping.






Parmandur said:


> Challenge accepted.


----------



## Deset Gled

Parmandur said:


> Challenge accepted.




You may be joking, but the "double decker" pizza is a common (or, used to be common, a decade or two ago) variation in northern Illinois (Gurnee, Waukegan, near the Wisconsin border).






						Menu - Kaiser's Pizza and Pub
					






					kaiserspub.com
				






			http://webpageadvertiser.com/Jesters-Double-D-Pizza_c190.htm


----------



## Gradine

Fun fact: Guy Fieri is something of a local hero where I live, and he's generally known to be just a really wonderful and generous dude


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> You may be joking, but the "double decker" pizza is a common (or, used to be common, a decade or two ago) variation in northern Illinois (Gurnee, Waukegan, near the Wisconsin border).




America is FALLING BEHIND in the Pizza Race. 

I think we should look at this from the military point of view. I mean, supposing the Russkies stashes away some big pizza, see. When they come out in a hundred years they could take over... In fact, they might even try an immediate sneak attack so they could take over our pizza space... I think it would be extremely naive of us, Mr. President, to imagine that these new pizza decker developments are going to cause any change in Soviet expansionist policy. I mean, we must be... increasingly on the alert to prevent them from taking over other pizza decker space, knocking us out with superior pizza options! 

Mr. President, we must not allow... a Pizza Decker and Stuffed Crust gap!







Buy a triple decker pizza, get a quadruple bypass free!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> America is FALLING BEHIND in the Pizza Race.
> 
> I think we should look at this from the military point of view. I mean, supposing the Russkies stashes away some big pizza, see. When they come out in a hundred years they could take over... In fact, they might even try an immediate sneak attack so they could take over our pizza space... I think it would be extremely naive of us, Mr. President, to imagine that these new pizza decker developments are going to cause any change in Soviet expansionist policy. I mean, we must be... increasingly on the alert to prevent them from taking over other pizza decker space, knocking us out with superior pizza options!
> 
> Mr. President, we must not allow... a Pizza Decker and Stuffed Crust gap!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buy a triple decker pizza, get a quadruple bypass free!



As long s nobody is putting hot dogs in the pretzel crust we should be ok.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> As long s nobody is putting hot dogs in the pretzel crust we should be ok.




To quote @Cadence - 

_Revenge is like pizza and hot dogs. It is best served cold. And with ketchup. _


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> To quote @Cadence -
> 
> _Revenge is like pizza and hot dogs. It is best served cold. And with ketchup. _


----------



## Deset Gled

Snarf Zagyg said:


> America is FALLING BEHIND in the Pizza Race.
> ...
> Buy a triple decker pizza, get a quadruple bypass free!




Nah, the USA still has our nuclear option: The Heart Attack grill.

Yes, the wikipedia page has a "Illnesses and deaths" section.


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> Nah, the USA still has our nuclear option: The Heart Attack grill.
> 
> Yes, the wikipedia page has a "Illnesses and deaths" section.



Just walking by makes my heart start pounding.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Just walking by makes my heart start pounding.









Not pictured on the menu- the sketchy guys doin' lines in the bathroom. Because, uh, you gotta keep that svelte figure.


----------



## Bedrockgames

payn said:


>


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> To quote @Cadence -
> 
> _Revenge is like pizza and hot dogs. It is best served cold. And with ketchup. _



Why the hell doesn't this site have bard and pineapple emoji.

(Cold pizza is fine though before 10am).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Why the hell doesn't this site have bard and pineapple emoji.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Why the hell doesn't this site have bard and pineapple emoji.
> 
> (Cold pizza is fine though before 10am).



Keep up the hope. I still want green puke emoji like...


----------



## darjr

Ope!

Post here! Not there!


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> America is FALLING BEHIND in the Pizza Race.




Pizza is not a competition.  It is art.


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> Pizza is not a competition.  It is art.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Pizza is not a competition.  It is art.



Why can't art be competitive?






						Finland Has the World's Best Pizza
					

Finland Has the World's Best Pizza                              According to America's Plate International Pizza Competition, that is. There is a funny ...




					www.finnstyle.com


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Why can't art be competitive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland Has the World's Best Pizza
> 
> 
> Finland Has the World's Best Pizza                              According to America's Plate International Pizza Competition, that is. There is a funny ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.finnstyle.com



PVP PVP PVP PVP PVP...


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Why can't art be competitive?




Because, as Shakespeare put it, there is no accounting for taste.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Pizza is not a competition.  It is art.




You're not eating it right.







He just needs those sweet, sweet pizza carbs to overtake the Cheez Whiz guy.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You're not eating it right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He just needs those sweet, sweet pizza carbs to overtake the Cheez Whiz guy.



Thats hilarious. During the better weather months I ride with some folks from a local brewery here. We do about 20+ miles and then settle in for pints. One guy no fail orders an extra large dominoes for himself at the end of the ride!


----------



## Cadence

While "dining is an art and not a science", the preparation end does have Molecular Gastronomy.


----------



## darjr

Love that movie!


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You're not eating it right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He just needs those sweet, sweet pizza carbs to overtake the Cheez Whiz guy.




Freshmen and sophomore year in the dorm, the pizza delivery folks in the area knew we would likely be in the lounge playing cards or whatnot, and if they were stiffed on a delivery would try us.  After the first slice each it was first come first served for the subsequent ones.

A decade plus later a grad student of mine thought he could out eat me in pizza. My training from years earlier held.  It was a buffet (bleh) and so I grabbed a dessert slice on the way out to rub it in.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> A decade plus later a grad student of mine thought he could out eat me in pizza. My training from years earlier held.  It was a buffet (bleh) and so I grabbed a dessert slice on the way out to rub it in.




Be careful; one thing I have learned is that the exploits of your youth (whether it is in consuming food, or drink, or ... other things) is best left to your youth. Even on those rare occasions that your memory isn't writing checks your body can't cash, you will regret it later.

There was a time when, after a long night of partying, my roommate and I would be the last two standing. We would break out two d20s game and play, _¿Quién es más macho?_ aka, the Twenty-sided die game.

The rules were simple.

1. Both people roll a d20.

2. The lower roll drinks the numerical difference. (If A rolls 17 and B rolls 12, then B drinks 5.)

3. If the two rolls are the same, then roll again and the loser drinks double the difference.

4. Continue until one person proclaims the other "Mas Macho" or until either person is unable to continue.

The odds that I would play that game now are approximately _hell to the no_.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Umbran said:


> I keep getting thrown by this, because "Takis" is the homeworld of a major character in the Wild Card shared world anthology series.  I would not want a Takis pizza, because the Takisians are big on bioweaponry, and they'd probably be trying to make you into patient zero for a virus that mutates people in walruses, or something.



Do you recommend the Wild Card series? I keep thinking of reading it, but haven't for some reason.


----------



## Cadence

Augh.  That thread was so close to being dead and buried.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Be careful; one thing I have learned is that the exploits of your youth (whether it is in consuming food, or drink, or ... other things) is best left to your youth. Even on those rare occasions that your memory isn't writing checks your body can't cash, you will regret it later.
> 
> There was a time when, after a long night of partying, my roommate and I would be the last two standing. We would break out two d20s game and play, _¿Quién es más macho?_ aka, the Twenty-sided die game.
> 
> The rules were simple.
> 
> 1. Both people roll a d20.
> 
> 2. The lower roll drinks the numerical difference. (If A rolls 17 and B rolls 12, then B drinks 5.)
> 
> 3. If the two rolls are the same, then roll again and the loser drinks double the difference.
> 
> 4. Continue until one person proclaims the other "Mas Macho" or until either person is unable to continue.
> 
> The odds that I would play that game now are approximately _hell to the no_.




I'm a sleepy drunk, so one, maybe two beers at most.

I had to use cunning when he thought he would try again at steak.  Amateurishly he partook of the proffered bread and appetizers.  I would not have come close to winning that one otherwise.


----------



## Umbran

BookTenTiger said:


> Do you recommend the Wild Card series? I keep thinking of reading it, but haven't for some reason.




Yes, but with a few caveats.

The originals were written from 1987 to 1993, and there were a dozen books.  They are certainly dated at this point.  If that doesn't bother you, then the first several of them are quite good.  After a while, they do go off the rails, though. 

There were a few written in the 1993 to 1995 timeframe, and I cannot speak to their quality.

Then, a new series started, in 2008, and those seem to be quite good.  They are a continuation of the original into the 21st century.  Mostly new characters, and all the 21st century media trends, from cell phones to reality TV.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I had to use cunning when he thought he would try again at steak.  Amateurishly he partook of the proffered bread and appetizers.  I would not have come close to winning that one otherwise.




95% of life is just framing things the right way to get what you want.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 95% of life is just framing things the right way to get what you want.



I really wanted the bloomin' onion and cheese fries, so I will not be doing such a bet again.


----------



## Cadence

After the constant snark and unhelpfulness, I'm not sure why you think that would be a deal breaker either.


----------



## Ryujin

Probably the only pizza I can eat reasonably safely these days.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Probably the only pizza I can eat reasonably safely these days.



Did you mean that style of food, or that pictured food specifically?


----------



## prabe

Imagine that--hateful people aren't great to be around.


----------



## darjr

I don't disagree, but I think it needed to be posted. I did modify it.


----------



## prabe

Yeah. I would have said it there, but it seemed ... less like threadcrapping here.


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


> Probably the only pizza I can eat reasonably safely these days.



I miss it


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Did you mean that style of food, or that pictured food specifically?



A little of both.


----------



## Cadence

The demons and devils were actually behind the satanic panic.  Sure, they had to take strange names in 2e, but in 3e and 5e look how demoted the gods are; they don't even need to exist for the cleric's and paladin's powers to work.  Meanwhile the demons and devils took down the temporary name plaques that were hiding the real ones for 2e and are back to usual.  (The unmentioned version isn't being claimed, but creatures from the far realms aren't exactly hiring publicists).


----------



## Cadence

Favorite chips.

I most recently really liked Jalapeno potato chips, but tried to cut back on chips/fries and have lost the taste for them.  Tortilla chips are fine with queso or salsa or some other dip, but otherwise it feels kind of boring that I'd reach for baked Lay's.

Anyway, does anyone over the age of, say, 13 who has thought about it actually like Cheetos?


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> Favorite chips.
> 
> I most recently really like Jalapeno potato chips, but tried to cut back on chips/fries and have lost the taste for them.  Tortilla chips are fine with queso or salsa or some other dip, but otherwise it feels kind of boring that I'd reach for baked Lay's.
> 
> Anyway, does anyone over the age of, say, 13 who has thought about it actually like Cheetos?



_raises Cheeto stained hand_


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Favorite chips.
> 
> I most recently really like Jalapeno potato chips, but tried to cut back on chips/fries and have lost the taste for them.  Tortilla chips are fine with queso or salsa or some other dip, but otherwise it feels kind of boring that I'd reach for baked Lay's.



Jalapeno chips are awesome. I have also been trying to lay off the Lays. I have been doing baby carrots and hummus. Though, im heart broken that the new Chipotle hummus at Target is limited time...


Cadence said:


> Anyway, does anyone over the age of, say, 13 who has thought about it actually like Cheetos?



Probably, but I doubt they will admit it.


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> Favorite chips.
> 
> I most recently really like Jalapeno potato chips, but tried to cut back on chips/fries and have lost the taste for them.  Tortilla chips are fine with queso or salsa or some other dip, but otherwise it feels kind of boring that I'd reach for baked Lay's.
> 
> Anyway, does anyone over the age of, say, 13 who has thought about it actually like Cheetos?



I rarely eat them; they remain an adolescent pleasure.  I've been avoiding chips for the most part for a few years. If I happen to be at a party or something where they're present, they are kind of a compulsory experience.  

I used to get jalapeno chips alongside a sandwich fairly regularly with lunch in the hospital cafeteria if I didn't bring a lunch, but my true love is a nice, strong, salt and vinegar potato chip.  Dill pickle chips are also delicious.


----------



## darjr

OK now I just had to log Cheetos!

This thread is going to get me in trouble.

Btw the recipe is easy.

Cheese powder (the faker the better)
Salt
MSG
And packing peanuts.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Anyway, does anyone over the age of, say, 13 who has thought about it actually like Cheetos?




Among others, David Chang and Anne Burrell are known Cheetos-lovers.

In the world of haute cuisine, Flamin' Hot Cheetos are the haute-est.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Among others, David Chang and Anne Burrell are known Cheetos-lovers.
> 
> In the world of haute cuisine, Flamin' Hot Cheetos are the haute-est.



Out with pop rocks, and in with takis?


----------



## Umbran

blargh


Snarf Zagyg said:


> Among others, David Chang and Anne Burrell are known Cheetos-lovers.
> 
> In the world of haute cuisine, Flamin' Hot Cheetos are the haute-est.




I've seen chefs on competition shows pulverize them into Cheeto powder.


----------



## J.Quondam

I like cheetos. In fact, I love cheetos. And I mean the ones formatted like actual cheetos, the irregular ones spattered out from a mechanical sphincter and flash-fried to crunchy, unwholesome goodness and caked with salty, vaguely cheezy finger-paint; absolutely NOT those weird, airy, puffed-up symetrical pseudo-cheetos which possess as much soul as flavor, which is to say none.
Yes, I like cheetos, and I will openly admit that.



* ETA:  Flamin' Hot cheetos, however, are an abomination.


----------



## Mannahnin

J.Quondam said:


> I like cheetos. In fact, I love cheetos. And I mean the ones formatted like actual cheetos, the irregular ones spattered out from a mechanical sphincter and flash-fried to crunchy, unwholesome goodness and caked with salty, vaguely cheezy finger-paint; absolutely NOT those weird, airy, puffed-up symetrical pseudo-cheetos which possess as much soul as flavor, which is to say none.
> Yes, I like cheetos, and I will openly admit that.
> 
> 
> 
> * ETA:  Flamin' Hot cheetos, however, are an abomination.



Cheese doodles are a completely different thing from Cheetos.  Despite the fact that Cheetos sells their own branded doodles as well.


----------



## Gradine

J.Quondam said:


> I like cheetos. In fact, I love cheetos. And I mean the ones formatted like actual cheetos, the irregular ones spattered out from a mechanical sphincter and flash-fried to crunchy, unwholesome goodness and caked with salty, vaguely cheezy finger-paint; absolutely NOT those weird, airy, puffed-up symetrical pseudo-cheetos which possess as much soul as flavor, which is to say none.
> Yes, I like cheetos, and I will openly admit that.
> 
> 
> 
> * ETA:  Flamin' Hot cheetos, however, are an abomination.



He flew too close to the sun.

Although I'll say that the Jalapeno Cheddar Cheetos are slightly better than Flamin' Hot.

Puffs can burn in a fire


----------



## Gradine

Ya'll are making sure to eat those with chopsticks though right?


----------



## J.Quondam

Gradine said:


> Puffs can burn in a fire



Interestingly - going by accidental first-hand experience as a kid - I discovered those puffy corn "doodle" type chips can also kill fire ant mounds. 
If they're bad for freakin' _fire ants_ they're probably bad for human civilization, too.


----------



## darjr

There was a nockoff brand that was very very hot. Ate the whole bag in one go. Never could find them again, they probably got sued out of existing.


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> blargh
> 
> 
> I've seen chefs on competition shows pulverize them into Cheeto powder.



I would love to see an episode called Iron Chef: Cheetos.

I never was a fan of Cheetos...I was more into Cheez-Its and Goldfish crackers.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I would love to see an episode called Iron Chef: Cheetos.
> 
> I never was a fan of Cheetos...I was more into Cheez-Its and Goldfish crackers.



White Cheddar cheez-its are my jam!


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> I would love to see an episode called Iron Chef: Cheetos.
> 
> I never was a fan of Cheetos...I was more into Cheez-Its and Goldfish crackers.



Cheez-Its + Sriracha = Joy

Also Goldfish + Tomato Soup is savory cereal


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> Cheez-Its + Sriracha = Joy
> 
> Also Goldfish + Tomato Soup is savory cereal



A pile of crushed Goldfish crackers, laid atop a cast-iron skillet full of homemade macaroni & cheese and broiled until toasted and bubbly, is pretty much the perfect food.


----------



## darjr

There is a super spicy protien cheezit nockoff out there that is amazing…. But I can’t remember the name.


----------



## Cadence

Ritz-like crackers and jalapeno pimento cheese...


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Ritz-like crackers and jalapeno pimento cheese...



Jalapeno and cheese is like my peanut butter and jelly.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Jalapeno and cheese is like my peanut butter and jelly.


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> White Cheddar cheez-its are my jam!



Peanut butter and cheez-it sandwich?


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> Peanut butter and cheez-it sandwich?



na, but now I do want to get out a jar of jalapenos next time I got cheez-its!


----------



## CleverNickName

Me:  Oh look, some updated info about NuTSR.  I wonder if there's an update on their threats of legal action against WotC?  (enters the thread)
Me, 2 minutes later:  Ah.  Well then.  Never mind.  (leaves thread)


----------



## Mannahnin

darjr said:


> There is a super spicy protien cheezit nockoff out there that is amazing…. But I can’t remember the name.



Damn it man! [shakes you by the lapels]

I need the information!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Me:  Oh look, some updated info about NuTSR.  I wonder if there's an update on their threats of legal action against WotC?  (enters the thread)
> Me, 2 minutes later:  Ah.  Well then.  Never mind.  (leaves thread)









nuTSR "reporting" on their legal action.


----------



## Gradine

The Ritz cracker is the perfect template for a snack; as the Wrap is the perfect template for a meal.


----------



## darjr

Saltines and slices of American cheese.

Or saltines and queso.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> The Ritz cracker is the perfect template for a snack; as the Wrap is the perfect template for a meal.




The wrap is the choice for people who look at a sandwich, and then a burrito, and then decide, "What if I take the worst aspects of both those foods and combine them?"


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The wrap is the choice for people who look at a sandwich, and then a burrito, and then decide, "What if I take the worst aspects of both those foods and combine them?"



I _might _be willing to grant you the burrito, but in what goddess forsaken universe is the *bread *the best part of a sandwich?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> I _might _be willing to grant you the burrito, but in what goddess forsaken universe is the *bread *the best part of a sandwich?




Don't get me wrong- I'm fond of the fillings, too.

But would you want a Muffuletta ... wrap?

Do you eat a Cuban sandwich in a pressed ... wrap?

Do you griddle up your Croque Monsieur with the bechamel sauce on the ... wrap?

Do you layer the crawfish, or oysters, or shrimp for your po' boy in the ... wrap?

Do you fry up the wrap all nice for a Monte Cristo?

Sure, if ya basic you can stuff something in a wrap. But if you want any of the true classics that constitute the pantheon of, "OH YEAH*, IMA EAT A SANDWICH** NOW!" you're missing out on something.

*
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





**Yes, a sandwich. NOT A HOT DOG, HOT DOG, HOT DIGGITY DOG.


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> I _might _be willing to grant you the burrito, but in what goddess forsaken universe is the *bread *the best part of a sandwich?




If you have to ask that, you ought to get yourself some better bread


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> But would you want a Muffuletta ... wrap?
> 
> Do you eat a Cuban sandwich in a pressed ... wrap?
> 
> Do you griddle up your Croque Monsieur with the bechamel sauce on the ... wrap?
> 
> Do you lawyer the crawfish, or oysters, or shrimp for your po' boy in the ... wrap?
> 
> Do you fry up the wrap all nice for a Monte Cristo?



I'm diabetic, so yes?

Except for the po'boy anyway, which my dear departed unintelligble grandma would roll in her grave if it wasn't served in a *roll *like Dr. John intended


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> I'm diabetic, so yes?
> 
> Except for the po'boy anyway, which my dear departed unintelligble grandma would roll in her grave if it wasn't served in a *roll *like Dr. John intended




I mean, if you are unable to eat bread for medical reasons, that's one thing. But the best and most iconic sandwiches are a delicate dance between the stuffing and the paired breads. 

I would never eat a Muffuletta in a wrap, or a Cuban sandwich (or medianoche) without the bread baked fresh that day.


----------



## Mannahnin

It's true.  I've had some good wraps in my day (e.g. Joseph's tomato or spinach wraps, are pretty darn tasty, for my money), but a good fresh bread is an essential component in a lot of sandwiches. 

For example a BLT is one of my all-time favorites.  Fresh toasted white, wheat or rye bread with a judicious smear of mayo is a completely different entity from a wrap, combining a touch of crunch with an essential light fluffiness to complement the B, L, and T.  I've made BLT wraps, but they are a fairly sad substitute.  Too dense.


----------



## payn

Man, I really want a Muffuletta _and_ a Cuban right now. Hell, while I'm at it give me a Bánh mì too.


----------



## Mannahnin

payn said:


> Man, I really want a Muffuletta _and_ a Cuban right now. Hell, while I'm at it give me a Bánh mì too.



Oh, the Bánh mì reference reminds me also of Irish breakfast baps.  I had a couple of spectacular sandwiches on baps when I was in Dublin.









						Traditional British Baps Recipe
					

Baps are soft white buns that make for excellent sandwiches. It may seem like making a batch of baps from scratch is a lot of effort to go through for a simple sandwich, but as when it comes to sandwiches, God is in the details.




					www.seriouseats.com


----------



## payn

Mannahnin said:


> Oh, the Bánh mì reference reminds me also of Irish breakfast baps.  I had a couple of spectacular sandwiches on baps when I was in Dublin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Traditional British Baps Recipe
> 
> 
> Baps are soft white buns that make for excellent sandwiches. It may seem like making a batch of baps from scratch is a lot of effort to go through for a simple sandwich, but as when it comes to sandwiches, God is in the details.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.seriouseats.com



Breakfast sandwiches in general are underrated.


----------



## Smackpixi

“Things” should not be exclusively media…so will just briefly share that if you’re not using bidets and electric toothbrushes you are just not living life to it’s full potential.


----------



## darjr

Smackpixi said:


> “Things” should not be exclusively media…so will just briefly share that if you’re not using bidets and electric toothbrushes you are just not living life to it’s full potential.



Definitely not to its full volume or vibrancy


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Smackpixi said:


> “Things” should not be exclusively media…so will just briefly share that if you’re not using bidets and electric toothbrushes you are just not living life to it’s full potential.




You’re not specifying which ends you are using them in…


----------



## CleverNickName

Reminds me of a terrible joke.
Q:  What's the difference between an oral and a rectal thermometer?


Spoiler: Answer



The taste



Careful with that joke, everyone.  It's an antique.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> There was a nockoff brand that was very very hot. Ate the whole bag in one go. Never could find them again, they probably got sued out of existing.



I have to watch it around here. The population of the town I live in is something like 48% South Asian. As a result we have two types of "hot." There's "hot" as in what the typical North American considers to be hot, which is about as spicy as a Bell Pepper, and then there's South Asian "hot" which varies from a distinct tingle, to nuclear furnace. If something is labeled as hot here, you're never sure what you're going to get. It's been quite a while since I would order Thai food at a level that a Thai person would consider "sort of spicy", so I'm out of practice.


----------



## J.Quondam

Many years ago, I tried to impress a date by ordering a "6-star" spicy dish at a Thai food restaurant.
She was from southern India, and was decidedly _unimpressed_ by my machismo.
I was in too much pain to notice.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Many years ago, I tried to impress a date by ordering a "6-star" spicy dish at a Thai food restaurant.
> She was from southern India, and was decidedly _unimpressed_ by my machismo.
> I was in too much pain to notice.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Many years ago, I tried to impress a date by ordering a "6-star" spicy dish at a Thai food restaurant.
> She was from southern India, and was decidedly _unimpressed_ by my machismo.
> I was in too much pain to notice.



Maybe 15 years ago, I would frequent a local Thai restaurant. They had a ten step scale. A 5 was "hot", but a 10 was "Thai hot." I would occasionally get a 10 and it would make me sweat, but not be painful. Now I'd likely feel like I was dying.


----------



## Smackpixi

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You’re not specifying which ends you are using them in…



Whichever works for you, I would just recommend being consistent.


----------



## billd91

Sometimes there isn't a misunderstanding... except the author misunderstanding how their own words communicate their ideas.


----------



## darjr

Nope. No thank you Chaosium. 

This sucks but I think I’m not going to post it anywhere else but here. For my own sake. Maybe.


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> Nope. No thank you Chaosium.
> 
> This sucks but I think I’m not going to post it anywhere else but here. For my own sake. Maybe.
> 
> View attachment 151687



To be fair, things like NFTs are _exactly_ the sort of thing that Nyarlathotep would inflict upon humankind at a conflict-ridden point in history like ours.
So... sounds legit, fits the M.O. perfectly!


----------



## CleverNickName

A Cthulhu _NFT_?
Pass.

EDIT:  Don't get me wrong, I love Call of Cthulhu.  And I like Chaosium's work, I wish them well.  But my interest in NFTs cannot be lower.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> A Cthulhu _NFT_?
> Pass.




What are you talking about?

NFTs are totally Lovecraftian. When I think about how the cosmos cares not a whit about us, the first thing that comes to mind is NFTs.

_The horror .... the horror. _


----------



## eyeheartawk

darjr said:


> Nope. No thank you Chaosium.
> 
> This sucks but I think I’m not going to post it anywhere else but here. For my own sake. Maybe.
> 
> View attachment 151687



Yeah, they've been doing this VeVe thing for awhile now. I know the Chaosium dudes are pretty active on Enworld.

What do?

Edit: Looks like it was a big hit over their own boards. Lots and lots of engagement.


----------



## Smackpixi

If ceramic, looks like it would make a pretty sweet bong.


----------



## Umbran

Smackpixi said:


> If ceramic, looks like it would make a pretty sweet bong.




"Here, take a toke off my eldritch horror."


----------



## eyeheartawk

In my head canon this bad boy is always toking.







￼


----------



## Smackpixi

eyeheartawk said:


> In my head canon this bad boy is always toking.



Head Cannon, heh heh.


----------



## darjr

eyeheartawk said:


> In my head canon this bad boy is always toking.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Nope. No thank you Chaosium.
> 
> This sucks but I think I’m not going to post it anywhere else but here. For my own sake. Maybe.
> 
> View attachment 151687



I'm impressed that they found a way to make an idol of Cthulu more evil.

But would Cthulu make a good pizza topping if cooked properly...?


----------



## darjr

At this point in my “diet” I want to climb into a huge pizza and eat my way out or die.


----------



## J.Quondam

Parmandur said:


> I'm impressed that they found a way to make an idol of Cthulu more evil.
> 
> But would Cthulu make a good pizza topping if cooked properly...?




Think in terms of "dire calamari"....









						Squid Pizza with Saffron Aioli Recipe
					

Michael Emanuel (an alumnus of Berkeley's Chez Panisse) tops this pizza with an irresistible mix of Provençal flavors: salty-sweet roasted squid, crea...




					www.foodandwine.com
				




_* _ftaghn_ costs extra, probably._


----------



## eyeheartawk

Chaosium doubling down


----------



## J.Quondam

eyeheartawk said:


> Chaosium doubling down



What does "the MR" refer to in that tweet?


----------



## eyeheartawk

J.Quondam said:


> What does "the MR" refer to in that tweet?



Miskatonic Repository. It's their version of the DMs Guild.


----------



## darjr

Well I’m out.


----------



## eyeheartawk

darjr said:


> Well I’m out.



Yeah. 

I bought every CoC and Runequest thing New Chaosium has put out. But if they're going to do this? They should have just let it die.


----------



## Asisreo

I find having to make the same discussions continuously, ad nauseum is more than exhausting. 

It feels like people value being right than learning on a fundamental level, such that they'll make claims more for the value of entertainment and "pwning" the other person rather than going at it with the intention to consider a new perspective. 

I don't feel like changing people's minds, I just want people to actually understand my position and not give the same canned response that gets repeated across the internet, as if the internet is always correct. I also hate hiveminds and echo chambers. It's one reason I'm glad these types of forums don't have downvote penalties. I'm always skeptical until I either experience something or I am given a new perspective that makes sense from a more objective angle. Sometimes, I won't be perfect in that goal, but I can assure that I do try. 

I don't believe the "opposition" is incorrect completely, though. I just want to get to the heart of their reasoning. Like how if you keep asking "why." Someone will answer the question with a definitive "because it reminds me of the mellow times with just me and my father before he passed." And you go "Ah, yeah. Now I understand why you'd put condensed milk on pizza." 

Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of getting defensive or gotcha arguments when I genuinely do value discussions.


----------



## Smackpixi

When I think of how peaceful Dad was just before he passed, lying in bed, flipping through his NFT collection on his phone, secure in the knowledge that he‘d amassed a wonderful legacy of one of a several thousand kind images of Giannis doing dunks, Marvel comic cells, and Call of Duty boots it makes me think I should get in on some of these digital chthonian bongs.


----------



## darjr

Every time I see that thread title I keep seeing a different name.

Like it's a religious exclamation.


----------



## darjr




----------



## Jacob Lewis

Asisreo said:


> I find having to make the same discussions continuously, ad nauseum is more than exhausting.
> 
> It feels like people value being right than learning on a fundamental level, such that they'll make claims more for the value of entertainment and "pwning" the other person rather than going at it with the intention to consider a new perspective.
> 
> I don't feel like changing people's minds, I just want people to actually understand my position and not give the same canned response that gets repeated across the internet, as if the internet is always correct. I also hate hiveminds and echo chambers. It's one reason I'm glad these types of forums don't have downvote penalties. I'm always skeptical until I either experience something or I am given a new perspective that makes sense from a more objective angle. Sometimes, I won't be perfect in that goal, but I can assure that I do try.
> 
> I don't believe the "opposition" is incorrect completely, though. I just want to get to the heart of their reasoning. Like how if you keep asking "why." Someone will answer the question with a definitive "because it reminds me of the mellow times with just me and my father before he passed." And you go "Ah, yeah. Now I understand why you'd put condensed milk on pizza."
> 
> Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of getting defensive or gotcha arguments when I genuinely do value discussions.



Yup. I feel like this all the time. I don't want to tear into an extended rant, but I want you to know that you are not alone. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Asisreo said:


> I find having to make the same discussions continuously, ad nauseum is more than exhausting.
> 
> It feels like people value being right than learning on a fundamental level, such that they'll make claims more for the value of entertainment and "pwning" the other person rather than going at it with the intention to consider a new perspective.
> 
> I don't feel like changing people's minds, I just want people to actually understand my position and not give the same canned response that gets repeated across the internet, as if the internet is always correct. I also hate hiveminds and echo chambers. It's one reason I'm glad these types of forums don't have downvote penalties. I'm always skeptical until I either experience something or I am given a new perspective that makes sense from a more objective angle. Sometimes, I won't be perfect in that goal, but I can assure that I do try.
> 
> I don't believe the "opposition" is incorrect completely, though. I just want to get to the heart of their reasoning. Like how if you keep asking "why." Someone will answer the question with a definitive "because it reminds me of the mellow times with just me and my father before he passed." And you go "Ah, yeah. Now I understand why you'd put condensed milk on pizza."
> 
> Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of getting defensive or gotcha arguments when I genuinely do value discussions.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Those Gripnr dudes ran the most obvious crypto based adventure too. It was real cringey. Lemme see if I can find it.


----------



## Cadence

"Why do you keep wanting me to admit in a D&D thread that D&D isn't Satan incarnate as a game!?!  How can you not see that it really is that awful!?!?"


----------



## Ryujin

Asisreo said:


> I find having to make the same discussions continuously, ad nauseum is more than exhausting.
> 
> It feels like people value being right than learning on a fundamental level, such that they'll make claims more for the value of entertainment and "pwning" the other person rather than going at it with the intention to consider a new perspective.
> 
> I don't feel like changing people's minds, I just want people to actually understand my position and not give the same canned response that gets repeated across the internet, as if the internet is always correct. I also hate hiveminds and echo chambers. It's one reason I'm glad these types of forums don't have downvote penalties. I'm always skeptical until I either experience something or I am given a new perspective that makes sense from a more objective angle. Sometimes, I won't be perfect in that goal, but I can assure that I do try.
> 
> I don't believe the "opposition" is incorrect completely, though. I just want to get to the heart of their reasoning. Like how if you keep asking "why." Someone will answer the question with a definitive "because it reminds me of the mellow times with just me and my father before he passed." And you go "Ah, yeah. Now I understand why you'd put condensed milk on pizza."
> 
> Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of getting defensive or gotcha arguments when I genuinely do value discussions.



Different people. Same argument. Words that look like they were just copy/pasted from some internet playbook by a dozen different people. It's tiring. It's maddening.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "Why do you keep wanting me to admit in a D&D thread that D&D isn't Satan incarnate as a game!?!  How can you not see that it really is that awful!?!?"









All of these decades of playing, and I still haven't figured out how to cast the real spells. I feel like I've been lied to.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I was at Gamehole Con and it was after the con and a bunch of people were in the lobby of the attached hotel enjoying the free beer on tap. Earlier that week Jack Chick died. I distinctly remember Jim Ward handing out a bunch of Chick Tracts in celebration of his death.

It was nice.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> All of these decades of playing, and I still haven't figured out how to cast the real spells. I feel like I've been lied to.




Yeah, wizards just aren't very quadratic in the real world.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Yeah, wizards just aren't very quadratic in the real world.




I know, right! I mean, every time I try to cast a spell in a barfight, it gets wrecked when I'm punched in the nose.

...further evidence that 1e got it right.


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> Yeah, wizards just aren't very quadratic in the real world.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> ...




Spells are real.
Math is fun.



_ALL MY LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _ALL MY LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_




Life is an illusion, and almost all of us fail our saving throws to disbelieve.


----------



## darjr

Oh? This guy created a universe of stars and he’s just an apprentice.


Spoiler


----------



## Mannahnin

Vancian Magic is Mathematics
					

The magic of Jack Vance's Dying Earth is mathematics; citation given.




					deltasdnd.blogspot.com


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Spells are real.
> Math is fun.
> 
> 
> 
> _ALL MY LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_




"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Clarke

"Technology is the fruit of science" - surely someone

"Mathematics is the queen of the sciences" - Gauss


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "Mathematics is the queen of the sciences" - Gauss




_Queen is the mathematics of rock! _

-Brian May, indubitably.


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> View attachment 151740



That was a pretty rocking comic. There was a copy of it at my grandparents' house when I was a kid.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> All of these decades of playing, and I still haven't figured out how to cast the real spells. I feel like I've been lied to.



From the movie


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> That was a pretty rocking comic. There was a copy of it at my grandparents' house when I was a kid.



I remember the movie in class in grade school, and then was really happy to find a copy of the comic decades later


----------



## payn

Parody or serious attempt! I cant do half of each for a Star Trek derivative.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> I remember the movie in class in grade school, and then was really happy to find a copy of the comic decades later



Oh no you didn’t. The movie isn’t that old!

Is it?


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Oh no you didn’t. The movie isn’t that old!
> 
> Is it?



There are two comic/movie pairs being talked about right now.     The one I'm talking about had both come out in 1959, I think


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Oh no you didn’t. The movie isn’t that old!
> 
> Is it?




Well the _Dark Dungeons_ movie is of 2014 vintage.

The somewhat related _Mazes and Monsters_ was released in 1984.

_Donald in Mathemagic Land_ was released in 1959.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Today's thought-






Of course, now I'm worried that this is going to bring up the pizza toppings again.


----------



## Asisreo

Cadence said:


> View attachment 151740



I remember I was in math class in 1st grade and casted my first spell. But I need help, guys: 

I thought Summon Greater Demons was a concentration spell but I can't seem to end it? It just keeps following me with invisibility until I stub my toes. Is there a cleric that knows Dispel Magic?


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Well the _Dark Dungeons_ movie is of 2014 vintage.
> 
> The somewhat related _Mazes and Monsters_ was released in 1984.
> 
> _Donald in Mathemagic Land_ was released in 1959.



The makers of the "Dark Dungeons" movie still read the online comments and reviews for a laugh. The "completely unrelated" mockumentary "Attacking the Darkness" is a take-down of pretty much any group you can imagine, including indie film makers.

A couple of my college friends were watching the filming of "Mazes and Monsters" on the grounds of the University of Toronto, got mistaken for extras, and got $20.00 each for playing Frisbee


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Today's thought-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, now I'm worried that this is going to bring up the pizza toppings again.



(CleverNickName has entered the chat)


----------



## Smackpixi

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Today's thought-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, now I'm worried that this is going to bring up the pizza toppings again.



It’s pronounced “fidge”


----------



## Galandris

How should I react? Expand my already arm-long list of people I ignore, or just find another board to post about rpgs and keep coming here just for the pizza topping discussions that managed to miraculously never devolve into a fight?


----------



## Parmandur

Galandris said:


> How should I react? Expand my already arm-long list of people I ignore, or just find another board to post about rpgs and keep coming here just for the pizza topping discussions that managed to miraculously never devolve into a fight?



_breaks a pineapple on the bar to create an improv weapon somehow_

Oh, wait, what?


----------



## Galandris

Parmandur said:


> _breaks a pineapple on the bar to create an improv weapon somehow_
> 
> Oh, wait, what?




Maybe I'll be able to put the extensive training lessons to use?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Spells are real.
> Math is fun.
> 
> 
> 
> _ALL MY LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_


----------



## sanakhanum

Life is a deception, and practically we all bomb our saving tosses to question.

Kodi nox


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Do people _still _have trouble understanding and accepting that someone else might prefer a different way to play the game? And that it doesn't make them wrong because its different than what you would do?!


----------



## payn

Jacob Lewis said:


> Do people _still _have trouble understanding and accepting that someone else might prefer a different way to play the game? And that it doesn't make them wrong because its different than what you would do?!



At this point, we simply have to understand that the answer to your question is a resounded yes. These folks tend to be predictable though, so its pretty easy to ignore their contributions on particular subjects. YMMV


----------



## Mad_Jack

Parmandur said:


> _breaks a pineapple on the bar to create an improv weapon somehow_








 Fun fact: I photoshopped that pic together at least ten years before the "lemon-ade" meme became a thing...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Jacob Lewis said:


> Do people _still _have trouble understanding and accepting that someone else might prefer a different way to play the game? And that it doesn't make them wrong because its different than what you would do?!



I mean, there's "the right way" to play and then there's whatever thing you manage to pass off to your group as "your way," Gods help you all.

Seriously speaking, though, lurking in "Let's Read *Dragon* Magazine" and similar threads has taught me that people have argued about this from the very beginning. In fact, I picked up the first 12 issues of *Alarums & Excursions* from 1975, the first D&D APAzine, which was basically the "gaming forums" of its day, and in those you read people calling out other people's gaming styles as "badwrongfun." And nobody knew what they hell they were doing! That was kind of the point!

EDIT: It occurred to me to link to Lee Gold's page where you can order back issues of A&E: ALARUMS AND EXCURSIONS (updated July 2021)


----------



## Cadence

Why aren't there other anthropomorphic beverages for him to battle against?


----------



## darjr

He's on my lawn!


----------



## prabe

Welp. That thread *might* have been interesting, in a kinda-jokey way.

So much for that.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

You might not be able to judge a book by its cover …. But it does seem like a LOT of pages in the book are correlated to cover.


----------



## Cadence

Now I'm going to have to keep checking back to see of it happens. Augh!


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You might not be able to judge a book by its cover …. But it does seem like a LOT of pages in the book are correlated to cover.



I'm always amazed by the number of older paperbacks (sci-fi, fantasy, mystery) where that isn't true.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

If anyone hasn't checked out this XKCD, I highly recommend it. 








						Earth Temperature Timeline
					






					xkcd.com


----------



## billd91

Another typical day when Usual Suspects are being usual, including The Wet Blanket.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Cadence said:


> View attachment 151818
> 
> Why aren't there other anthropomorphic beverages for him to battle against?



Obviously his established foe should have been Randy Savage, the other food mascot who burst through walls in 90s commercials to allieviate the boredom of children.


----------



## Smackpixi

Cadence said:


> View attachment 151818
> 
> Why aren't there other anthropomorphic beverages for him to battle against?



I wanna know in what thread you restrained yourself and didn’t ask this question.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> Why aren't there other anthropomorphic beverages for him to battle against?




  He's killed them all and consumed their souls.


        ...You didn't think that was _Kool Aid_ inside of him, did you?


----------



## Cadence

Smackpixi said:


> I wanna know in what thread you restrained yourself and didn’t ask this question.




Apropos of nothing, we aren't supposed to make it too clear which pineapple pizza vendor something here applies to.  So having something that can help obfuscate a bit is good, like maybe an unneeded question.  ( I like obfuscate what is your favorite VtM disciplines?).


----------



## Jacob Lewis

payn said:


> At this point, we simply have to understand that the answer to your question is a resounded yes. These folks tend to be predictable though, so its pretty easy to ignore their contributions on particular subjects. YMMV.



I was being rhetorical but thanks for spelling it out.

Anyway, I find these folk tend to be predictable in just about every thread. So maybe my mileage doesn't vary much with them. I just wish they didn't keep killing potentially good conversations and topics by making everyone else stay away.


----------



## Mannahnin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> If anyone hasn't checked out this XKCD, I highly recommend it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earth Temperature Timeline
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xkcd.com



A classic, although I understand that newer fossil and genetic evidence shows that humans came to North America millenia earlier than shown on here.









						Fossil footprints prove humans populated the Americas thousands of years earlier than we thought
					

The New Mexico findings could rewrite the history of human migration to the Americas.




					theconversation.com
				











						The Story of How Humans Came to the Americas Is Constantly Evolving
					

Surprising new clues point to the arrival taking place thousands of years earlier than previously believed




					www.smithsonianmag.com


----------



## darjr

Yes, I completely understand the irony of what I posted. But let’s see if anyone else does and comments in it. Because while it’s ironic in very many cases and in the larger picture it’s also completely accurate for many many more.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

All of your "fixed" math won't save you if you're still using d20 to determine results for you. d20 is a honey badger.


----------



## payn

I still dont get what an NFT is.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> I still dont get what an NFT is.



It's probably better that way ...


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I still dont get what an NFT is.



I think it really secure certificate of authenticity that uses an incredible amount of energy.  I'm curious about the variety of "one sentence answers" it could get in the thread on it.


----------



## darjr

It’s a database of unique numbers. Each mathematically dependent on all the previous ones. Generated by a formula that is CPU intensive and that requires access to the whole database and communication between all the machine participants. That database can be broken up across multiple sites.

That’s it in a nutshell. 

The Cthulhu is in the details.


----------



## darjr

Ya know Cthulhu cultists are in it because then they get so used to the stink and they can’t smell it anymore.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> I still dont get what an NFT is.



It stands for "non-fungusible token". I means it won't grow fuzz if you keep it in the fridge  for months on end.


----------



## darjr

Which is ridiculous because there are cases where the databases are cloned and the tokens fungend. It’s actually easy to do.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> I still dont get what an NFT is.



It's a pyramid scheme that uses crypto technology to sound cutting edge, and uses artists to sell the digital soap to people further down the rung of the pyramid.


----------



## CleverNickName

So many rants about the Superbowl Halftime Show in my social media feed this morning.  I think I need better friends.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> So many rants about the Superbowl Halftime Show in my social media feed this morning.  I think I need better friends.



It's true it was a great show! Some folks were just lined up to be mad no matter what.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> So many rants about the Superbowl Halftime Show in my social media feed this morning.  I think I need better friends.




What?

I really enjoyed it. I mean ... it's the Super Bowl, so their idea of "cutting edge" was to honor the 90s*, but I loved it. Kendrick Lamar was (as always) great, and the whole thing was awesome.

....but I have to say, 50 Cent? One of these artists is not like the others ....  


*The Weeknd was one of my all-time favorite half-time shows by someone not named "Prince," but I don't think they are going back to the well of relevancy any time soon.


----------



## darjr

My kid googled how much the half time show cost and his results said that the NFL doesn’t pay for it. That the artists do. That in this case Dr Dre did.

Can anyone confirm this? It seems odd.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What?
> 
> I really enjoyed it. I mean ... it's the Super Bowl, so their idea of "cutting edge" was to honor the 90s*, but I loved it. Kendrick Lamar was (as always) great, and the whole thing was awesome.
> 
> ....but I have to say, 50 Cent? One of these artists is not like the others ....
> 
> 
> *The Weeknd was one of my all-time favorite half-time shows by someone not named "Prince," but I don't think they are going back to the well of relevancy any time soon.



I'll take it over the era of mandated aged out rockers. In other news, some twitter posters said the halftime show was "sexual anarchy" umm wut???


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What?
> 
> I really enjoyed it. I mean ... it's the Super Bowl, so their idea of "cutting edge" was to honor the 90s*, but I loved it. Kendrick Lamar was (as always) great, and the whole thing was awesome.
> 
> ....but I have to say, 50 Cent? One of these artists is not like the others ....
> 
> 
> *The Weeknd was one of my all-time favorite half-time shows by someone not named "Prince," but I don't think they are going back to the well of relevancy any time soon.



I thought the show was great also!  But I recently befriended a lot of my old classmates after our 30-year reunion, and some of those friends were very disappointed in the skin complexion of the performers.

Like I said:  I need better friends.


----------



## darjr

Jolly Blackburn just said he’s going to use a “Trickle Down XP” system and I immediately thought it must be for a horror game.


----------



## Mannahnin

darjr said:


> My kid googled how much the half time show cost and his results said that the NFL doesn’t pay for it. That the artists do. That in this case Dr Dre did.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this? It seems odd.











						Yes, the Halftime Performers at the Super Bowl Do Get Paid—But Not Much
					

Some of the world's most famous singers have performed at the Super Bowl, but they make very little money for the show compared to the sportsmen on the field.




					www.newsweek.com
				






> Why Do Singers Perform at the Super Bowl for So Little Money?​When it comes to the A-listers, what they lose in fees from the NFL they gain in a bump to their earnings after being broadcast into the homes of millions for one of the most-watched TV events of the year.
> 
> In the wake of Lady Gaga's performance in 2017, her _Joanne_ album shot back up to No 2 in the Billboard charts, rising 60 places four months after its release. Searches for her tour tickets also increased by 10,000 percent, according to StubHub. _Forbes _reported that Maroon 5 were able to increase their per-city average on tour from $200,000 to $1.7 million after their halftime show in 2019.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> I'll take it over the era of mandated aged out rockers. In other news, some twitter posters said the halftime show was "sexual anarchy" umm wut???



I suspect that this is coded language to more subtly express what @CleverNickName  acquaintances said out loud. There is a long and disgusting tradition of casting African-Americans that way.


----------



## Deset Gled

I am no longer confident that I can identify what "threadcrapping" is.


----------



## Cadence

RE: "Ideal Rest Mechanic"

Is 159 days too soon to be counting down for this year's summer vacation?


----------



## darjr

I’ll say one thing. This thread is good for traffic. 

Note I typoed “tragic” at first and I can’t decide if that wasn’t better.


----------



## J.Quondam

Is ENWorld being super-sluggish to load for anyone else? Has been for me last day or so.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

payn said:


> I still dont get what an NFT is.



Nobody does. The people who claim they do are just in an Emperor's New Clothes situation.


----------



## Deset Gled

J.Quondam said:


> Is ENWorld being super-sluggish to load for anyone else? Has been for me last day or so.




It's been fine for me.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> I still dont get what an NFT is.



Well...


darjr said:


> It’s a database of unique numbers. Each mathematically dependent on all the previous ones. Generated by a formula that is CPU intensive and that requires access to the whole database and communication between all the machine participants. That database can be broken up across multiple sites.



... @darjr actually explained the blockchain, which is a distributed ledger technology to record transactions. That's the "database" they're talking about. Which, okay, so all transactions are recorded somewhere. Either they're anonymized, in which case you can't actually use the blockchain to create accountability (which is a frequent battle cry of the pro-blockchainers) or it's not anonymized in which case you are broadcasting all of your transactions (which is... suboptimal for financial transactions, for reasons I don't think I need to explain).

An NFT is where you use the blockchain to commoditize (it's a word, spellcheck agrees, look it up if you don't believe me, blame the fact that we're in the Darkest Timeline) a link to something, say an image.

That's it. If you "buy an NFT," you've bought a URL, basically. I could actually type that URL into my browser myself, and not pay you a dime, and it's not illegal.

Why would someone pay real money for it? Because they've been convinced that it'll go up in value, because you can look on a private exchange (they're all unregulated private exchanges) and see where someone has anonymously paid more for it the last time it got sold. Who? It's anonymous (see above) so there's no way to tell. Why? Well, NFTs (much like fine art in general) are frequently used for money laundering, so probably somebody who wanted clean bitcoins "bought" the NFT, maybe from one of their other accounts. So, if you buy it, that makes you a chump who helped the launderer even make a profit from a scheme where he was already making money.

"But, @Liane the Wayfarer, what if it wasn't a launderer? I just want to get rich!" Well, you still saw where I told you it was a URL, right? It's only worth something because somebody else decided they wanted it. Why do you want it? Because you saw where somebody else wanted it? You realize that's an unhealthy behavior, right? That people are exploiting to make money? Well, the blockchain technology uses an enormous amount of processing power, enough that if you run a computer that just does that, and connect it to your house's electric grid, you'll at least double your bill.

There are cleaner, more environmentally friendly ways to separate a fool from his/her money. Use one of those, please. If you must be a con artist, at least have a care for the environment that you also have to live in.

EDIT: "But, @Liane the Wayfarer, you said an NFT is a URL? That's a string that points to a file, right? What if they move the file?" Well, then your NFT points to nothing. That's it. You don't get to change the NFT's content, it's tied to the blockchain ledger. Better luck next time. Maybe the next one will point to a file that never moves, ever, in the history of the Web. You know, like no page in the history of the Web.


----------



## Cadence

It feels like the counterpoint should be written by Chun, but that just makes me sad (both Chun and the thought of a counterpoint).

In any case, the "Songs of the Dying Earth" anthology in honor of Vance has a story related to chun.


----------



## CleverNickName

I honestly, truthfully never noticed that the fighter (or wizard) was more (or less) powerful than the wizard (or fighter).
I guess I've been doing it wrong?


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> I honestly, truthfully never noticed that the fighter (or wizard) was more (or less) powerful than the wizard (or fighter).
> I guess I've been doing it wrong?



Doing it wrong... or doing it _bard?_


----------



## Gradine

Class balance as a concept has, as a whole, had an extremely negative impact on the tabletop (and particularly D&D) community.

Collaborative tabletop RPGs do not need a meta, in my not particularly humble opinion


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Class balance as a concept has, as a whole, had an extremely negative impact on the tabletop (and particularly D&D) community.
> 
> Collaborative tabletop RPGs do not need a meta, in my not particularly humble opinion




Are class balance and spotlight balance conflated in some of the concerns?  Is spotlight balance an important thing?   

Does everything have a meta whether it wants one or not?


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Are class balance and spotlight balance conflated in some of the concerns?  Is spotlight balance an important thing?



Well, the former is a game issue and the latter is a table issue. I think they are often conflated, but in the case of practically any edition of D&D, erroneously so.


Cadence said:


> Does everything have a meta whether it wants one or not?



Undoubtedly. Does not make it a good thing, however.


----------



## darjr

IPv6 failed badly


----------



## Malmuria

Markets In Turmoil As Price Of Money Skyrockets To $90 A Dollar
					

NEW YORK—After fluctuating wildly this morning between $1 and $35, the price of money spiked to an unprecedented $90 a dollar in afternoon trading, plunging international financial markets into chaos. “Wall Street erupted into absolute pandemonium once the price of a dollar jumped past $50—if...




					www.theonion.com


----------



## RealAlHazred

Malmuria said:


> Markets In Turmoil As Price Of Money Skyrockets To $90 A Dollar
> 
> 
> NEW YORK—After fluctuating wildly this morning between $1 and $35, the price of money spiked to an unprecedented $90 a dollar in afternoon trading, plunging international financial markets into chaos. “Wall Street erupted into absolute pandemonium once the price of a dollar jumped past $50—if...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theonion.com



I blame Biden! This would never have happened under Trump! He would have pushed the price to a penny a dollar!


----------



## payn




----------



## darjr

For one half second I thought that was real.


----------



## Umbran

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I blame Biden! This would never have happened under Trump!




Can we not do the politics in here?  Thanks.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> Can we not do the politics in here?  Thanks.



Apologies.


----------



## Gradine

NFTs are primarily for money laundering and crypto is primarily for buying drugs on the dark web, these aren't exactly facts that are up for debate, and they definitely shouldn't be news to anybody at this point


----------



## Mannahnin

Gradine said:


> ...and crypto is primarily for buying drugs on the dark web,



Exactly.  It DOES have a use-case.  It's just a really narrow one, so far.


----------



## Cadence

That was quite a jump in topics.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> That was quite a jump in topics.




Proposed thread topic-

nuTSR should pivot to Crypto and NFTs. They should allow people to buy the books BANNED by Wizards using Crypto on the Dark Web, and they should sell "classic" TSR art with lots of bewbs as NFTs.* Also, they should bring back more pineapple toppings for pizza.

Is this the best, or the bestest, topic ever? Discuss. 



*Not actually sell the art, but, well, you know.


----------



## payn




----------



## darjr

I DO NOT, repeat DO NOT have “member berries”


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> I DO NOT, repeat DO NOT have “member berries”


----------



## darjr




----------



## Deset Gled

I got a "like" in a completely random thread that was locked in 2020. I love the positive feedback, of course. But also... huh? Are you lost, buddy?


----------



## Mannahnin

Deset Gled said:


> I got a "like" in a completely random thread that was locked in 2020. I love the positive feedback, of course. But also... huh? Are you lost, buddy?



It is funny sometimes how old the "Similar Threads" at the bottom of the page can be.


----------



## darjr

For the record, yes, I am lost.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


> NFTs are primarily for money laundering and crypto is primarily for buying drugs on the dark web, these aren't exactly facts that are up for debate, and they definitely shouldn't be news to anybody at this point


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> (Go Lions)



I haven't followed the NFL in a while but I heard Matthew Stafford finally won a Super Bowl; about time the Lions finally make something of themselves


----------



## darjr

Has no one watched the video? I actually set a times stamp and everything.


----------



## payn

Well, it was good for 8 pages.


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> Has no one watched the video? I actually set a times stamp and everything.



Is it a Harry Potter video? I only watch those. Is it the one where they cast "Expelliballmus"?


----------



## Cadence

NM Revised dual lands in MtG.  Easily movable, useful in real life on their own, and worth between $5,000 and $15,000 per ounce depending on which of the 10 color coded denominations you have.


----------



## darjr

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Is it a Harry Potter video? I only watch those. Is it the one where they cast "Expelliballmus"?



Balls do get expelled.


----------



## Gradine

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Is it a Harry Potter video?



I certainly hope not


----------



## darjr

Gradine said:


> I certainly hope not



Someone watched the video!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Wow, I missed a whole NFT thread and the chance to sound smart. Good thing, too, because there's no way I would have sounded as smart as a lot of those other guys!


----------



## Gradine

I have never let an inability to sound smart stop me!


----------



## darjr

Gradine said:


> I have never let an inability to sound smart stop me!



Hey! That’s my schtick!


----------



## Cadence

I'm assuming the site has no control over the ads that pop up for those not logged in (although that particular TV show one did do the job of making me log in to the site on the new browser really quickly).


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> I'm assuming the site has no control over the ads that pop up for those not logged in




Ads are served by Google.  We don't control them.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Ads are served by Google.  We don't control them.




In Soviet Russia, we don't control advertisement, advertisement control us!


Also, @darjr ... this whole "Let's use real pictures" thing you started? BAD DARJR. BAD.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> @darjr ... this whole "Let's use real pictures" thing you started? BAD DARJR. BAD.



I don't know, @Umbran looks exactly how I pictured...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I don't know, @Umbran looks exactly how I pictured...




_My mental images_

Umbran:






Morrus:





Danny:


----------



## darjr

Bandwitch


----------



## Umbran

I.. can't say he's entirely wrong, there.


----------



## darjr

No no no. I didn’t mean YOU!

_not directed at Umbran_


----------



## Deset Gled

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I don't know, @Umbran looks exactly how I pictured...




By the way, I've been meaning to ask.  Is your avatar just static or is there one of those colorblind test messages hidden in it?  Asking for a friend with totally normal color vision.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I.. can't say he's entirely wrong, there.



Could be worse. You could be modding on a movie forum.


----------



## darjr

Deset Gled said:


> By the way, I've been meaning to ask.  Is your avatar just static or is there one of those colorblind test messages hidden in it?  Asking for a friend with totally normal color vision.



Definitely a test. Dint you see it?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Deset Gled said:


> By the way, I've been meaning to ask.  Is your avatar just static or is there one of those colorblind test messages hidden in it?  Asking for a friend with totally normal color vision.



The original file (this is a still image from an animated GIF) was just static, but my handle in a lot of other forums is "AlHazred" so I was working on putting a still frame or two of Great Cthulhu in there. Then it turned out that animated GIFs can introduce issues in forum software, so pretty much almost every forum restricted them and I had to turn it into a still image PNG. At least I didn't waste more than sixteen or so hours trying to get the animation to look right...


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Could be worse. You could be modding on a movie forum.




That trailer's brilliant!


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> That trailer's brilliant!



A little project that some folks I know were hired to do for Microsoft, a few years back.  Always liked it 

_EDIT_ - Oh, and Samara, the female lead in it, is drop dead gorgeous in person


----------



## darjr

That isn’t a real movie?


----------



## payn

Could be a better meta story than Matrix 4...


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> That isn’t a real movie?



I wish, but catch the URL at the end


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> I wish, but catch the URL at the end



But I want it?


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> But I want it?



Then I might have another one for you. I keep badgering Jen to actually make this one. It's got to be at least as good as any of the fantasy that's put out by SyFy


----------



## darjr

And now I want that too!


----------



## darjr

Dangit!


----------



## Ryujin

Well Jen actually wants to make that one someday. 
... and I did give her a chainmail shirt a couple of years back


----------



## darjr

Maybe the new game will solve the fighter vs spell caster thingy wingy.


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> Maybe the new game will solve the fighter vs spell caster thingy wingy.



I bet they solve the linear fighter vs quadratic wizard problem by introducing cubic rogues.


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> I bet they solve the linear fighter vs quadratic wizard problem by introducing cubic rogues.



Blue boxes?


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> Blue boxes?



Rogue Rouge is usually pink, isn't it?


----------



## Smackpixi

That guy who quietly posts the obvious answer 10 pages before everyone else runs out of ideas and basically agrees with him never gets many likes.


----------



## Cadence

So, money laundering?


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> So, money laundering?



Gotta have clean cash. A drop of that "new cash smell" couldn't hurt either.


----------



## billd91

I think someone is going for a dubious ENWorld record.


----------



## Cadence

If your A5e party is visiting a place called Pontypandy you'll still want Create Water even if it isn't potable.  (Is Norman a fire blasting Warlock? Is Sam a Ranger?)


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> If your A5e party is visiting a place called Pontypandy you'll still want Create Water even if it isn't potable.  (Is Norman a fire blasting Warlock? Is Sam a Ranger?)


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


>



Im out of my element.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Im out of my element.



British children's cartoon about a group of dangerous mutants who have been brainwashed into not remembering they have powers (pyromancy, super engineering, etc...) and are kept in an isolated fake Welsh village. The warden who acts the part of a firefighter is the title character.

(Does that sound right, @Deset Gled ?)


----------



## Thunderfoot

As a person that has been on this site...well, a long time; there are plenty of times I typed a scathing retort, organized and researched...and then while editing, just deleted the whole d*&# thing.  So THIS is my post.  BLARRRRRRRGGH!!!! 

there, I'm better.  lol


----------



## Smackpixi

What would you be doing today if you’d never met me?


----------



## Parmandur

Thunderfoot said:


> As a person that has been on this site...well, a long time; there are plenty of times I typed a scathing retort, organized and researched...and then while editing, just deleted the whole d*&# thing.  So THIS is my post.  BLARRRRRRRGGH!!!!
> 
> there, I'm better.  lol



I feel your pain.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

All these Dr. Who threads popping up everywhere and I can't think of a good Who-meme to address the irony of it! Or which thread to put it in! Or which Doctor!


----------



## Parmandur

Why did you say "issues," and then list a bunch of positives...?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Jacob Lewis said:


> All these Dr. Who threads popping up everywhere and I can't think of a good Who-meme to address the irony of it! Or which thread to put it in! Or which Doctor!


----------



## darjr

Who?


----------



## Asisreo

Is this what it means when someone on Twitter says they "caught you in 4k?" 

Also, no I'm not seeking refuge! Okay, maybe a little. Next time I won't coat myself in napalm before smoking a cigarette. My next Steve-O stunt will be living a peaceful life.


----------



## darjr

Making demands? How's that working out for you?


----------



## Smackpixi

We’re having a bit blizzard today, I suggest using the Door Dash gift card we have for dinner, wife says, “I feel bad about making someone drive in this weather.”  I observe, “You know that’s the point of it right, it’s not just for when you’re drunk.” To be fair, I think it’s mostly for getting food when you’re drunk, I don’t use it otherwise.


----------



## Umbran

Smackpixi said:


> We’re having a bit blizzard today, I suggest using the Door Dash gift card we have for dinner, wife says, “I feel bad about making someone drive in this weather.”  I observe, “You know that’s the point of it right, it’s not just for when you’re drunk.” To be fair, I think it’s mostly for getting food when you’re drunk, I don’t use it otherwise.




Your being drunk does not add risk of life and limb to the driver.  A blizzard does.

Tip like you just asked the driver to risk crashing their car for your burritos.


----------



## Asisreo

Umbran said:


> Your being drunk does not add risk of life and limb to the driver. A blizzard does.
> 
> Tip like you just asked the driver to risk crashing their car for your burritos.



The higher the risk of the driver dying, the higher the tip should be. Because it's a safer investment.


----------



## Smackpixi

You guys are weirdos who maybe have never seen snow or something?  You just drive slower, and maybe get stuck, it’s a PITA, it’s not life threatening, lol.


----------



## Asisreo

Smackpixi said:


> You guys are weirdos who maybe have never seen snow or something?  You just drive slower, and maybe get stuck, it’s a PITA, it’s not life threatening, lol.



The trick is to ice the stairs before your house Home Alone style. And the house address is your neighbors.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Smackpixi said:


> You guys are weirdos who maybe have never seen snow or something?  You just drive slower, and maybe get stuck, it’s a PITA, it’s not life threatening, lol.



well, that's true...assuming the person knows how to drive in inclemate weather.  Hell, driving in dry warm conditions can be dangerous.   deer, reckless drivers, impaired drivers.... add weather and the whole thing can (if you'll pardon the unintentional pun) slide sideways..


----------



## Smackpixi

Thunderfoot said:


> well, that's true...assuming the person knows how to drive in inclemate weather.



Like Umbran, maybe you don’t live in a place with snow?  If you don’t want to drive on ice and in snow, my state isn’t gonna work for you.  Or this theoretical Door Dash driver who is about to die driving in a snowstorm.  Jesus fork, I got someone bring me some sushi, it’s not a big deal, only weird part is i’m sober


----------



## billd91

Smackpixi said:


> You guys are weirdos who maybe have never seen snow or something?  You just drive slower, and maybe get stuck, it’s a PITA, it’s not life threatening, lol.



Well, there's snow, then there's blizzard. I'll call for delivery when it's snowing - I'm not doing the same when it's a anything approaching a blizzard. That's just abusive.


----------



## Smackpixi

billd91 said:


> Well, there's snow, then there's blizzard. I'll call for delivery when it's snowing - I'm not doing the same when it's a anything approaching a blizzard. That's just abusive.



Why do you hate delivery drivers, want to put them out of a job?  Bad weather is a good night for them, more calls, more tips.  Light up their call board.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Smackpixi said:


> Like Umbran, maybe you don’t live in a place with snow?  If you don’t want to drive on ice and in snow, my state isn’t gonna work for you.  Or this theoretical Door Dash driver who is about to die driving in a snowstorm.  Jesus fork, I got someone bring me some sushi, it’s not a big deal, only weird part is i’m sober



Um, I def do.  However, your assumption is, its snows, so everyone here knows how to drive on it.  You are missing the possibility of move ins, new drivers, old drivers and just plain morons.

But I get the sentiment.


----------



## CleverNickName

Smackpixi said:


> Why do you hate delivery drivers, want to put them out of a job?  Bad weather is a good night for them, more calls, more tips.  Light up their call board.



I get what you're saying, but even so:  I'm not going to ask a stranger to take unnecessary risks.  When the roads are a mess, I'll have cold cereal or leftovers for dinner before I order delivery.


----------



## Ryujin

Thunderfoot said:


> Um, I def do.  However, your assumption is, its snows, so everyone here knows how to drive on it.  You are missing the possibility of move ins, new drivers, old drivers and just plain morons.
> 
> But I get the sentiment.



And my favourite; people with 4WD who think that makes all season tires work well enough for serious snow cover. It does great for getting you up to speed. Not so great for turning and stopping. I once set out for a trip to Alabama, from Toronto, in a heavy snowstorm. The only thing moving on the highway to Niagara Falls was me, and transport trucks. There were plenty of 4WD vehicles in the ditch, however, my RWD Dakota with a 500 pound motorcycle in the back kept right on going.


----------



## Cadence

Smackpixi said:


> You guys are weirdos who maybe have never seen snow or something?  You just drive slower, and maybe get stuck, it’s a PITA, it’s not life threatening, lol.



Is your wife not from snowy places either? (Why did she bring it up if it wasn't bad?)


----------



## Umbran

Smackpixi said:


> You guys are weirdos who maybe have never seen snow or something?  You just drive slower, and maybe get stuck, it’s a PITA, it’s not life threatening, lol.




I live in New England.  We see snow every year, have blizzards every year.

Which is why we know going out in them if you don't have to is dumb.  Because whether or not _we_ know how to drive in snow, there's some nitwit from Florida who thinks having 4-wheel drive make them invulnerable, a guy who has had a few drinks and is not racing home to order burritos, or other hazard that isn't in the driver's control, to contend with.

Every hazard on the road becomes more of a hazard in blizzard conditions.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Because whether or not _we_ know how to drive in snow, there's some nitwit from Florida who thinks having 4-wheel drive make them invulnerable,




Florida man doesn't need 4-wheel drive to be invulnerable.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Florida man doesn't need 4-wheel drive to be invulnerable.



Wait? You live near me?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Florida man doesn't need 4-wheel drive to be invulnerable.


----------



## darjr

I’ve never died playing D&D.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> I’ve never died playing D&D.



OR HAVE YOU


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> OR HAVE YOU



I didn’t say death wasn’t involved.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> I’ve never died playing D&D.



Nor have I. My _characters_, on the other hand...


----------



## Ryujin

I should, however, note that there is a definite lack of steam tunnels in my neighbourhood.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Thunderfoot said:


> As a person that has been on this site...well, a long time; there are plenty of times I typed a scathing retort, organized and researched...and then while editing, just deleted the whole d*&# thing.  So THIS is my post.  BLARRRRRRRGGH!!!!
> 
> there, I'm better.  lol



Narrator: "But he wasn't. He wasn't better!"


----------



## CleverNickName

IPAs are tasty, I have nothing against them, but they're a bit out of season.  This is the time of the year for bocks.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Narrator: "But he wasn't. He wasn't better!"



That comment however helped.... a lot.  
Damn I need to find a... well.  'buddy'  (Gotta keep Eric's grandma safe)


----------



## Thunderfoot

CleverNickName said:


> IPAs are tasty, I have nothing against them, but they're a bit out of season.  This is the time of the year for bocks.



I would say its always the season for Bochs...


----------



## South by Southwest

Thunderfoot said:


> I would say its always the season for Bochs...



Aye, especially the Bavarian ones. And the Belgians if you have the money.


----------



## Thunderfoot

South by Southwest said:


> Aye, especially the Bavarian ones. And the Belgians if you have the money.



Fell in love with those when I was stationed in Augsburg.. you know, Bavaria.  lol


----------



## South by Southwest

Thunderfoot said:


> Fell in love with those when I was stationed in Augsburg.. you know, Bavaria.  lol



Totally, man. The Celebrator double Bock is arguably my favorite beer or ale. I mean, the Belgian Trappist stuff is outstanding, but for whatever reason, Celebrator is what I keep coming back to.


----------



## prabe

If you want to argue with me please argue with what I actually said, thanx.


----------



## darjr

I can hold these seeming contradictory things


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> If you want to argue with me please argue with what I actually said, thanx.




I heard what you said, but then I changed it to what I wanted to hear, like you suggested.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> I can hold these seeming contradictory things



The definition of a first rate mind is the ability to believe two contradictory things at the same time.

Some literary guy, I think.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> IPAs are tasty, I have nothing against them, but they're a bit out of season.  This is the time of the year for bocks.



There is no season for IPAs, I mean they have hops down in NZ too! Though, they do need to be drank sooner than later. Like Beaujolais, they dont get better with age like stouts and porters.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I heard what you said, but then I changed it to what I wanted to hear, like you suggested.



Do not take this wrong--I genuinely appreciate the folks like you who write at length about things, here--but it seems like a sorta different thing to lose track of what is said in a 3,000-word post than in a three-sentence one, dunnit?


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> There is no season for IPAs, I mean they have hops down in NZ too! Though, they do need to be drank sooner than later. Like Beaujolais, they dont get better with age like stouts and porters.



Also, hops can be preserved. Kinda ironic, since they're a preservative, but there you are.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

prabe said:


> Do not take this wrong--I genuinely appreciate the folks like you who write at length about things, here--but it seems like a sorta different thing to lose track of what is said in a 3,000-word post than in a three-sentence one, dunnit?



Yes. Yes, it is.

So to recap, yes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Do not take this wrong--I genuinely appreciate the folks like you who write at length about things, here--but it seems like a sorta different thing to lose track of what is said in a 3,000-word post than in a three-sentence one, dunnit?




Usually, I find that this happens for three reasons (not mutually exclusive)-

1. You ever get in a discussion with someone, and you can tell that they aren't listening to you, but they are just waiting for you to pause so that they can make their own point? Yeah, this is the written version of that. There's a lot of people that aren't really reading what you write, but are just looking to make their own points. At a fundamental level, what you wrote really doesn't matter to them.

2. Nuance and equivocation is difficult, especially on internet forums. If you have a post that is neither A nor B, people will often assume it is either A or B in order to disagree with it. It's just the way of things. 

3. Some people aim at nothing in life and hit it with amazing accuracy.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Some people aim at nothing in life and hit it with amazing accuracy.



The term I have heard--and come to use--for a person who consistently and persistently does this is "Zero Master."


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. You ever get in a discussion with someone, and you can tell that they aren't listening to you, but they are just waiting for you to pause so that they can make their own point? Yeah, this is the written version of that. There's a lot of people that aren't really reading what you write, but are just looking to make their own points. At a fundamental level, what you wrote really doesn't matter to them.




I have run into a useful term for this - "reading to respond", instead of reading to understand.



Snarf Zagyg said:


> 2. Nuance and equivocation is difficult, especially on internet forums. If you have a post that is neither A nor B, people will often assume it is either A or B in order to disagree with it. It's just the way of things.




Confirmation bias is not just a thing.  It is a big thing.  With fangs.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> British children's cartoon about a group of dangerous mutants who have been brainwashed into not remembering they have powers (pyromancy, super engineering, etc...) and are kept in an isolated fake Welsh village. The warden who acts the part of a firefighter is the title character.
> 
> (Does that sound right, @Deset Gled ?)




Three days late to this, but yes.  I guess Bentley is a warforged?


----------



## Cadence

Going through Disney+ and saw that the Black Hole was on there.  I don't think I'd seen it since late 1979 / early 1980 when I had the choice of it or Star Trek.  Wow... that, uhm, that part in the ending.   Apparently my brain entirely suppressed that part.   (I mean, there were lots of other things I had forgotten, but they at least plausibly felt like they should be in the movie).


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Going through Disney+ and saw that the Black Hole was on there.  I don't think I'd seen it since late 1979 / early 1980 when I had the choice of it or Star Trek.  Wow... that, uhm, that part in the ending.   Apparently my brain entirely suppressed that part.   (I mean, there were lots of other things I had forgotten, but they at least plausibly felt like they should be in the movie).



I straight up thought that whole movie was q childhood nightmare until I saw it again recently.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> I straight up thought that whole movie was q childhood nightmare until I saw it again recently.



You can still get the toys on Amazon...


----------



## darjr

Love that movie. They should have done the sequel.


----------



## Thunderfoot

I remember when it came out, lets be honest, it tanked.  It has aged much better than it had any right too.  The same can be said for The Black Cauldron and The Dark Crystal.  Thankfully geeks like all of you and me as well, have foisted it on generations since then who saw the real cool factor in them.  soooo. thanks?   lol


----------



## Umbran

Geeze.  Why do you have to be _that guy_?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Me: Waiting for moderation in 3... 2... 1...  
SITE ALERT: This page has new posts...
Also Me: Oh look, Umbran just posted.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Geeze.  Why do you have to be _that guy_?



Someone is always _that guy._


----------



## darjr

I didn’t comment in another thread.


----------



## payn

I knew this thread would devolve into pointless minutiae debates instead of any meaningful discussion.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> I knew this thread would devolve into pointless minutiae debates instead of any meaningful discussion.



Yeah, but like, forest green is objectively the best shade of green.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> Yeah, but like, forest green is objectively the best shade of green.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


>




You have to put it in proper context to get appreciation:


----------



## darjr

Forest Oracle Green


----------



## payn

Oh, _KRAKEN_ variants. I thought for a second it was _KAREN_ variants.


----------



## Deset Gled

darjr said:


> Forest Oracle Green


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Oh, _KRAKEN_ variants. I thought for a second it was _KAREN_ variants.




To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to.



I disagree. One is a fell beast that I never want to have to battle and the other is a kraken.


----------



## CleverNickName

I'm seriously disappointed in Kickstarter.  I would like nothing more than to back The New Hotness that dropped today, but I won't support blockchain technology in any capacity that gives me a choice in the matter.  And since I can choose not to back a Kickstarter project, I'm forced to miss out on The New Hotness.

It's a shame, too.  I used to pledge for dozens of Kickstarters every year, from a variety of indie RPG companies, spending hundreds of dollars.  The One Ring, the Legend of Vox Machina, Avatar: Legends, Level-Up 5E, Coyote & Crow, Venture Maidens, Seas of Vodari, Tome of Heroes, Tanares, HeroForge, The Lost Lights, and dozens more have all enjoyed my support in recent years...and now, because of Kickstarter's misguided decision to switch to blockchain, I'm out in the cold.

I know there are other systems out there that don't use blockchains...IndieGoGo, CircleUp, Patreon, etc.  And I'll eagerly use them!  If more indie RPG creators make the switch from Kickstarter, I'll follow them.  Or maybe Kickstarter will see the light.  But until then, that sweet artwork from Erol Otis will pass me by.

Bummer.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I'm seriously disappointed in Kickstarter.  I would like nothing more than to back The New Hotness that dropped today, but I won't support blockchain technology in any capacity that gives me a choice in the matter.  And since I can choose not to back a Kickstarter project, I'm forced to miss out on The New Hotness.
> 
> It's a shame, too.  I used to pledge for dozens of Kickstarters every year, from a variety of indie RPG companies, spending hundreds of dollars.  The One Ring, the Legend of Vox Machina, Avatar: Legends, Level-Up 5E, Coyote & Crow, Venture Maidens, Seas of Vodari, Tome of Heroes, Tanares, HeroForge, The Lost Lights, and dozens more have all enjoyed my support in recent years...and now, because of Kickstarter's misguided decision to switch to blockchain, I'm out in the cold.
> 
> I know there are other systems out there that don't use blockchains...IndieGoGo, CircleUp, Patreon, etc.  And I'll eagerly use them!  If more indie RPG creators make the switch from Kickstarter, I'll follow them.  Or maybe Kickstarter will see the light.  But until then, that sweet artwork from Erol Otis will pass me by.
> 
> Bummer.



I remember when my wife was in grad school, she did some work and reading having to do with "wicked problems," which at least mostly involved competing goods. Back the game-makers? Refuse to engage with blockchain?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Great, now I've been forced to remember a horrible gaming experience I had decades ago. I was convinced to try RIFTS, but we had random tables for everything, including Occupational Character Classes. So, after hours of chargen, we had:

A Glitter Boy in invincible power armor who had a railgun so powerful, when he took a shot anchoring bolts shot out of his armor to keep him from flying backwards.
A Cyberknight who was basically a Jedi.
A Dragon. (This was a Racial Character Class, but I guess he go to that table somehow.)
A full Borg conversion guy, 99% of whose entire body was made of metal. We joked that it must have been a single kneecap or something.
A Technomage who somehow had both magic and high-tech in abundance.
And me... A Vagabond (as in, a guy with no really good Action-Oriented skills), who used a pipe gun that failed to shoot 10% of the time and scavenged leather armor scraps.
The system uses regular damage and Mega-Damage. A point of Mega-Damage was equal to 1,000 points of regular damage. So, unless my character put on enough leather armor scraps to make up 1,000 points of armor (spoiler, even a mammoth didn't have enough hide for that) it wouldn't stop even a single point of damage from the Cyberknight's lightsaber, which did 1d6 MD. The railgun was some absurd number of points.

Early on in the first session after chargen, we fought some scrub minions. I wasn't able to get under cover in the first round, so the GM figured out randomly who got pegged when a grenade went off. Surprise! It was me! It was okay, though, he minned out the damage so I only took a single point!

Of Mega-Damage.

So, I was wiped out in the first shot. Somebody else was playing a character who had MD armor, but the illustration showed a character in, like, a two-piece bikini. We joked that the shrapnel just happened to bounce off of the strategically-placed bits of MD cloth.

Anyway, that game was a complete waste of 8 hours of time. At least everybody else looked like they were having fun.


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Great, now I've been forced to remember a horrible gaming experience I had decades ago. I was convinced to try RIFTS, but we had random tables for everything, including Occupational Character Classes. So, after hours of chargen, we had:
> 
> A Glitter Boy in invincible power armor who had a railgun so powerful, when he took a shot anchoring bolts shot out of his armor to keep him from flying backwards.
> A Cyberknight who was basically a Jedi.
> A Dragon. (This was a Racial Character Class, but I guess he go to that table somehow.)
> A full Borg conversion guy, 99% of whose entire body was made of metal. We joked that it must have been a single kneecap or something.
> A Technomage who somehow had both magic and high-tech in abundance.
> And me... A Vagabond (as in, a guy with no really good Action-Oriented skills), who used a pipe gun that failed to shoot 10% of the time and scavenged leather armor scraps.
> The system uses regular damage and Mega-Damage. A point of Mega-Damage was equal to 1,000 points of regular damage. So, unless my character put on enough leather armor scraps to make up 1,000 points of armor (spoiler, even a mammoth didn't have enough hide for that) it wouldn't stop even a single point of damage from the Cyberknight's lightsaber, which did 1d6 MD. The railgun was some absurd number of points.
> 
> Early on in the first session after chargen, we fought some scrub minions. I wasn't able to get under cover in the first round, so the GM figured out randomly who got pegged when a grenade went off. Surprise! It was me! It was okay, though, he minned out the damage so I only took a single point!
> 
> Of Mega-Damage.
> 
> So, I was wiped out in the first shot. Somebody else was playing a character who had MD armor, but the illustration showed a character in, like, a two-piece bikini. We joked that the shrapnel just happened to bounce off of the strategically-placed bits of MD cloth.
> 
> Anyway, that game was a complete waste of 8 hours of time. At least everybody else looked like they were having fun.



The first time that I played Rifts I was in a very similar situation. IIRC 1 MDC = 100 SDC. I played a Mystic Magic OCC, in a group of MDC characters. I think that I had armour that had a whopping 40 MDC which would last about 2 hits from any of the other characters in the group. I lasted until the second fight.

Realizing that my fellow party members were a bunch of munchkins, I went about creating the most broken characters that I could after that. My first follow-up was an invulnerable super hero character that I named Stainless. At one point that character was stuck to a Carpet of Adhesion and was constantly taking damage until the spell ran out. The enemy didn't last long after that. My next character was even worse; a Demigod Apok.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Great, now I've been forced to remember a horrible gaming experience I had decades ago. I was convinced to try RIFTS, <SNIP>
> Anyway, that game was a complete waste of 8 hours of time. At least everybody else looked like they were having fun.



This, this is why RIFTS never flew with me.  I always ended up the guy with the paper bag for armor and a rubber band for a weapon.


----------



## Aeson

I liked the setting. I have a lot of the books. I'm not so sure about the mechanics.


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> I liked the setting. I have a lot of the books. I'm not so sure about the mechanics.



They're the same mechanics as pretty much every other Palladium RPG. The difference is Mega Damage. They even give conversions from their other games to Rifts.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> IIRC 1 MDC = 100 SDC



That's right. I'd forgotten and added a "0". Mea culpa! Still absurd, though!


Aeson said:


> I liked the setting. I have a lot of the books. I'm not so sure about the mechanics.



I thought the setting as depicted in the core book had a lot of story potential. Then, each release after that made it feel more and more different. Like, in the original book it seemed like only a few million humans might be left on Earth. And then, by the time the last Coalition books came out, my buddy who is a super-fan was telling me Chicago alone had a population in the tens of millions. The "setting creep" from the supplements leeched a lot of the flavor I liked out of the setting.


----------



## prabe

Congratulations! You have read something in the least generous way possible!


----------



## J.Quondam

I keep seeing the thread title and thinking, _"So... that's like a three-quarter vampire, right?"_


----------



## Aeson

J.Quondam said:


> I keep seeing the thread title and thinking, _"So... that's like a three-quarter vampire, right?"_



Blade's half brother?


----------



## Malmuria

The reason the architecture looks the same everywhere is because it's a mediocre, inspiration-less setting filled with copy/paste cliches and crude, one-dimensional cultural appropriation.


----------



## CleverNickName

Malmuria said:


> The reason the architecture looks the same everywhere is because it's a mediocre, inspiration-less setting filled with copy/paste cliches and crude, one-dimensional cultural appropriation.



I mean, there are only so many ways to build a building.  All of them are 90% identical...they all have a floor, a roof, and walls.  All the other differences are decorative.


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> I mean, there are only so many ways to build a building.  All of them are 90% identical...they all have a floor, a roof, and walls.  All the other differences are decorative.




There are a lot of functional jobs for architecture besides floors, walls, and roofs. 

IOW, that buttress ain't just decorative.


----------



## J.Quondam

I like big buttresses, I cannot lie.


----------



## CleverNickName

Deset Gled said:


> There are a lot of functional jobs for architecture besides floors, walls, and roofs.
> 
> IOW, that buttress ain't just decorative.



 Pretty sure the job of a buttress is to support the roof.  Which makes it functionally a part of the wall, yes?  (Chimneys, on the other hand...)


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> Pretty sure the job of a buttress is to support the roof.  Which makes it functionally a part of the wall, yes?




That logic kind of fails, in that there's buildings without walls...


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> That logic kind of fails, in that there's buildings without walls...



...no walls at all?  Just a roof hovering over a floor?


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> ...no walls at all?  Just a roof hovering over a floor?




Pillars are not walls, sir.


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> Pillars are not walls, sir.



This is where engineers and architects usually start fighting about "how wide does a pillar need to be before it's considered a wall."

(I expected you to mention domes, tbh.  The categorization of an igloo is a classic engineering school question.)


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> That logic kind of fails, in that there's buildings without walls...




Looks like walls would be the usual anymore.

"a structure with a roof and walls, such as a house, school, store, or factory."  from Oxford Languages

while dictionary.com just needs it to be enclosed...

'a relatively permanent enclosed construction over a plot of land, having a roof and usually windows and often more than one level, used for any of a wide variety of activities, as living, entertaining, or manufacturing."

[The OED on the other hand wants me to go look up house, *"*That which is built; a structure, edifice: now a structure of the nature of a house built where it is to stand." ]


----------



## Thunderfoot

A gazebo has no walls, but does have a floor and a roof and buttresses.  (whether or not arrows are sticking out of them).


----------



## Aeson

Thunderfoot said:


> A gazebo has no walls, but does have a floor and a roof and buttresses.  (whether or not arrows are sticking out of them).



I attack it.


----------



## prabe

My experience has not been the same as your experience.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> (I expected you to mention domes, tbh.  The categorization of an igloo is a classic engineering school question.)



Clearly, an igloo is a sandwich.

... To a polar bear.


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Clearly, an igloo is a sandwich.
> 
> ... To a polar bear.


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 152369



Wait?! Really?!

Uh now I’m gunna be in trouble.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I'll be fine since, luckily, folding a slab of ribs together isn't considered a sandwich.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 152369



Lord help this thread if there's a town in Massachusetts called "Pizza."


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I'll be fine since, luckily, folding a slab of ribs together isn't considered a sandwich.


----------



## payn

Makes me wish the McRib was good, as opposed to being nasty in actuality.


----------



## eyeheartawk

It's so gross.


----------



## darjr

I haven’t eaten fast food in a long time. 

After a long hiatus from it I wanted to get one of my favorite fast food sandwiches. I couldn’t stand it. Maybe it was terribly made but it didn’t appear to be any different. I’m not sure I want to try again.


----------



## Aeson

J.Quondam said:


> Lord help this thread if there's a town in Massachusetts called "Pizza."



Speaking of....I ordered pizza with pineapple because of this thread.


----------



## J.Quondam

Aeson said:


> Speaking of....I ordered pizza with pineapple because of this thread.



Do you have a verdict?


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> Do you have a verdict?



Don’t ask em to relive it!


----------



## eyeheartawk

Yeah, I remember liking McRibs when I was a kid. Had one for the first time in like, 15 years? And yeah, it was horrendous. Was it always that bad? That's the question.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Yeah, I remember liking McRibs when I was a kid. Had one for the first time in like, 15 years? And yeah, it was horrendous. Was it always that bad? That's the question.



I had the same experience. Growing up I was subjected to some really bad meals on a regular basis. So, that may have swayed my perception of the goodness of a McRib.


----------



## J.Quondam

I got over McDonalds* when I started referring to their food products as "McMeatFoam."


_* Except sausage & egg biscuit with coffee, which I'm pretty sure is laced with some sort of opioiod._


----------



## Mannahnin

J.Quondam said:


> _* Except sausage & egg biscuit with coffee, which I'm pretty sure is laced with some sort of opioiod._



I feel this way about the sausage and egg croissant sandwich at Dunks.


----------



## eyeheartawk




----------



## Mannahnin




----------



## eyeheartawk

Mannahnin said:


>



I'm the mayor of dunkin'


----------



## Umbran

"Is it impossible to get a cup of coffee-flavored coffee? You can get every other flavor except coffee-flavored coffee! They got mochachino, cappuchino, frappachino, Al Pacino, what the _bleep_??"
-Denis Leary, _Lock n' Load_.


----------



## Thunderfoot

That's the reason I won't go the Starbuck's.  I went in and asked for a small coffee (years ago) and the lady asked me, "what flavor?"  When I replied "coffee flavor"  she looked at me like I had grown another head.  

Now they are even more pretentious.


----------



## Mannahnin

Thunderfoot said:


> That's the reason I won't go the Starbuck's.  I went in and asked for a small coffee (years ago) and the lady asked me, "what flavor?"  When I replied "coffee flavor"  she looked at me like I had grown another head.
> 
> Now they are even more pretentious.



Weird.  Last I remember they had the Pike Place blend/roast, which is just good, regular coffee, and cheaper than the rest of the fancier lineup.  Never had any problems with the service, either, though I much more commonly go to Dunks.


----------



## payn

Thunderfoot said:


> That's the reason I won't go the Starbuck's.  I went in and asked for a small coffee (years ago) and the lady asked me, "what flavor?"  When I replied "coffee flavor"  she looked at me like I had grown another head.
> 
> Now they are even more pretentious.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I haven’t eaten fast food in a long time.
> 
> After a long hiatus from it I wanted to get one of my favorite fast food sandwiches. I couldn’t stand it. Maybe it was terribly made but it didn’t appear to be any different. I’m not sure I want to try again.



Discovered in my 30's that I have a low level soy allergy, and after actually keeping to a soy free diet it's amaizing how violently my tastebuds rebel when I lapse and eat something with soy in it.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> Discovered in my 30's that I have a low level soy allergy, and after actually keeping to a soy free diet itemizing how violently my tastebuds rebel when I lapse and eat something with soy in it.



Oi. I love so very many things with soy. Including edamame and tofu. 

I have a mild coconut and coffee allergy. 

Coconut cuts my mouth up, somehow.
Coffee, hours later, makes my stomach try and tear its way out of me.

The coconut thing is easy, if I bit it and it hurt after just a little bit of chewing I stop.

The coffee one is bad, I like coffee, for a while I’d drink some and be like “oh! I’m OK” then hours later the claws come out. Usually when I’m trying to sleep. Hopefully I won’t do that again. But coffee is soooo gooood.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


>



I had the chance to try some about 15 or 20 years ago, and, oh my! 

It. was. _amazing._

I'd never drink it now, having learned of the abuses involved. But yeah... it's weird that something so icky can be so tasty. Which just goes to show - yet again - that, if humans are undeniably good anything at all, being _abusive_ and being _weird_ are definitely two of the top contenders.


----------



## Asisreo

Mannahnin said:


> Weird. Last I remember they had the Pike Place blend/roast, which is just good, regular coffee, and cheaper than the rest of the fancier lineup. Never had any problems with the service, either, though I much more commonly go to Dunks.



For me, Starbucks either has extremely mediocre coffee to the worst coffee ever. 

I'm a coffee snob so but I also have high tolerance for bad coffee. I can drink burnt black coffee from my local café like its water. But Starbucks can somehow make even me repulsed with a crapton of sugar and creamer. 

The only one I can stomach from Starbucks is that one chocolate chip Frappuccino, and really, who doesn't love chocolate?


----------



## Mannahnin

Asisreo said:


> For me, Starbucks either has extremely mediocre coffee to the worst coffee ever.
> 
> I'm a coffee snob so but I also have high tolerance for bad coffee. I can drink burnt black coffee from my local café like its water. But Starbucks can somehow make even me repulsed with a crapton of sugar and creamer.



Huh. Weird.  I'm pretty far from a coffee snob; I make myself a black coffee in the morning but it's usually an affordable decent medium roast like Gevalia or Equal Exchange.  Starbucks has always seemed to over-roast most of their stuff for my tastes.  Not my thing, but I get that many people like it.  The Pike Place has always been fine, IME, but I only get it once or twice a year, really.


----------



## darjr

Do not worry. I get my caffeine just fine. Fine I tell you. It’ll be fine. That rattling are my teeth.


----------



## payn

Problem with "internet best lists" is they are never quantified.


----------



## Aeson

J.Quondam said:


> Do you have a verdict?



I've had pineapple on pizza before. I like it. This was a spicy Hawaiian chicken pizza from Pizza Hut. It was good, spicy, but good.


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> Don’t ask em to relive it!



My first pizza with pineapple was in 1997 or 98. I worked for Little Caesars at the time. They had just started delivery. People would order a pizza with "everything except anchovies" then realize they don't actually mean everything. Mistakes would be put in the back as a crew pie. One day there was a pizza with pineapple so I tried it. It was good. 

Some advice;
Most pizza places have a pizza with the most commonly ordered toppings. Supreme (Pizza Hut) The Works (Papa Johns) Extravaganza (Dominos) order one of these instead of "everything except anchovies", you'll only end up removing some of the toppings during the order or after you get it. 

Most of them will have 
Extra cheese
Pepperoni 
Ham
Sausage 
Beef
Green peppers 
Onions
Mushroom 
Black olives

That is not everything. It's just the most common stuff. If they do one with everything it's often REALLY heavy and doesn't cook properly.


----------



## darjr

Ooohhh. Uuuuhhh. I didn’t say that for YOUR benefit.


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> Ooohhh. Uuuuhhh. I didn’t say that for YOUR benefit.



But, I said THAT for YOUR benefit.


----------



## darjr

Aeson said:


> But, I said THAT for YOUR benefit.



It didn’t work.

But I’m sure it made snarf happy, so that’s ok


----------



## prabe

I am inclined to agree with you but I'd prefer not to be drawn into that argument.


----------



## Aeson

Is this an argument? I thought it was just witty repartee.


----------



## prabe

Aeson said:


> Is this an argument? I thought it was just witty repartee.



Sorry. I was saying what I would have said in another thread, if I were posting in that other thread. I wasn't attempting to take part in or interfere with the dialog about pizza.


----------



## J.Quondam

prabe said:


> I wasn't attempting to take part in or interfere with the dialog about pizza.



Which raises a good question:
WHY NOT??


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Which raises a good question:
> WHY NOT??



Because I don't want to yuck anyone's yum.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> Because I don't want to yuck anyone's yum.



I prefer to yum people's yuck, myself.


----------



## CleverNickName

That's me, wearing my red jacket and enjoying a delicious made-to-order pizza with @payn, @Snarf Zagyg, and a few other ENWorld members.  And @Zardnaar is the android laughing in the background.


----------



## Zardnaar

CleverNickName said:


> That's me, wearing my red jacket and enjoying a delicious made-to-order pizza with @payn, @Snarf Zagyg, and a few other ENWorld members.  And @Zardnaar is the android laughing in the background.
> 
> View attachment 152381




 That's my reaction about USA coffee or chocolate.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> That's my reaction about USA coffee or chocolate.



...

How do you view U.S. coffee, out of curiosity?


----------



## Zardnaar

Parmandur said:


> ...
> 
> How do you view U.S. coffee, out of curiosity?




Coffee flavored water that tastes bleah.


----------



## CleverNickName

Zardnaar said:


> Coffee flavored water that tastes bleah.



I say this as an American, born and raised:

100% agree.

The trouble with American coffee (and American food, in general) is that so much of it is heavily processed and mass-produced.  Most large-scale American companies prioritize profit and shelf-stability over freshness, flavor, and nutrition.  And it's not like they have a choice in the matter, either; once a company reaches a certain level of success they have to make cuts in order to keep their profit margins (and shareholders!) happy.  If they don't, their shareholders leave and they go under.  (Score one for the Free Market, I guess.)

American coffee, American beer, American burgers, American Anything--it's always the same 1d4 food brands, fighting with each other over who is The BestTM when they are all largely identical.  Identical in quality, identical in cost, identical in ingredients, identical in flavor.

So in my not-humble opinion, if you want to sample the "good" American foods and beverages, avoid those large mass-produced brands.  You'll have better luck with our smaller, local coffee roasters, restaurants, and microbrewers.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> it's always the same 1d4 food brands, fighting with each other over who is The BestTM when they are all largely identical.



Economists should just officially redesignate our economic system as a "1d4opoly".


----------



## Zardnaar

CleverNickName said:


> I say this as an American, born and raised:
> 
> 100% agree.
> 
> The trouble with American coffee (and American food, in general) is that so much of it is heavily processed and mass-produced.  Most large-scale American companies prioritize profit and shelf-stability over freshness, flavor, and nutrition.  And it's not like they have a choice in the matter, either; once a company reaches a certain level of success they have to make cuts in order to keep their profit margins (and shareholders!) happy.  If they don't, their shareholders leave and they go under.  (Score one for the Free Market, I guess.)
> 
> American coffee, American beer, American burgers, American Anything--it's always the same 1d4 food brands, fighting with each other over who is The BestTM when they are all largely identical.  Identical in quality, identical in cost, identical in ingredients, identical in flavor.
> 
> So in my not-humble opinion, if you want to sample the "good" American foods and beverages, avoid those large mass-produced brands.  You'll have better luck with our smaller, local coffee roasters and microbrewers.




 It's what we can buy in the international section at the supermarket. 

 Cheetos and Doritos are alright but they're made here. Buds drinkable (watery though). 

 Oreo's most candy, most chocolate is nothing special. I don't get pop tarts. Cadbury went to crap after takeover by American company.

 Some of the candy is alright.

 I did like gumbo and some other foods an American expat over here was selling. That was tasty, American pizza made by expats still waiting to find a great one but tried a decent one 10 years ago.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> Coffee flavored water that tastes bleah.



Interesting. I make my own (grind the beans, Fewmch Press, the whole deal), because that's how you get real quality, bit I also live in an area with quality coffeeshops abounding.


----------



## Zardnaar

Parmandur said:


> Interesting. I make my own (grind the beans, Fewmch Press, the whole deal), because that's how you get real quality, bit I also live in an area with quality coffeeshops abounding.




 Absolutely I'm sure there's some good coffee. I've heard mixed things about US milk used in the coffee, my friend drank his black. 

 We also do a double shst standard here from a cafe, if you ask for double shot you get 4, triple shot is 6. 

 Starbucks is crap, and they kinda failed in Aussie. Turkish is popular fast food here try one of their coffees.


----------



## Ryujin

Rather interestingly my coffee drinking friends from the home of Starbucks wouldn't generally be seen anywhere near a Starbucks.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Aeson said:


> Is this an argument? I thought it was just witty repartee.



Personally I never really know what anything in this thread is. But I sure feel like a cool kid whenever I have a good working theory...


----------



## J.Quondam

Zardnaar said:


> Turkish is popular fast food here try one of their coffees



First time I had a turkish coffee, I drank it all in one gulp, like a shot. Grounds and all.
That was a learning experience.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> Absolutely I'm sure there's some good coffee. I've heard mixed things about US milk used in the coffee, my friend drank his black.
> 
> We also do a double shst standard here from a cafe, if you ask for double shot you get 4, triple shot is 6.
> 
> Starbucks is crap, and they kinda failed in Aussie. Turkish is popular fast food here try one of their coffees.



Yeah, Starbucks is weak. Convenient here, though, because they are everywhere. There's a regional drive thru only chain, Caffino, which is awesome. Roast their beans in the little shop and make it fresh.


----------



## Zardnaar

J.Quondam said:


> First time I had a turkish coffee, I drank it all in one gulp, like a shot. Grounds and all.
> That was a learning experience.




 Yup if the grit sticks to your teeth the better.


----------



## Thunderfoot

darjr said:


> Oi. I love so very many things with soy. Including edamame and tofu.
> 
> I have a mild coconut and coffee allergy.
> 
> Coconut cuts my mouth up, somehow.
> Coffee, hours later, makes my stomach try and tear its way out of me.
> 
> The coconut thing is easy, if I bit it and it hurt after just a little bit of chewing I stop.
> 
> The coffee one is bad, I like coffee, for a while I’d drink some and be like “oh! I’m OK” then hours later the claws come out. Usually when I’m trying to sleep. Hopefully I won’t do that again. But coffee is soooo gooood.



Hey someone else with a coconut allergy.  Mine is a little more serious, I get hives.  The big problem is most soap and shampoo is made with coconut oil.  I found out my dandruff shampoo was actually causing my dandruff.  I have about 3 soaps I can use now and am washing my hair with Dawn dishwashing liquid.   

At least I'm not my sister she has eat coconut and die allergies.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Mannahnin said:


> Huh. Weird.  I'm pretty far from a coffee snob; I make myself a black coffee in the morning but it's usually an affordable decent medium roast like Gevalia or Equal Exchange.  Starbucks has always seemed to over-roast most of their stuff for my tastes.  Not my thing, but I get that many people like it.  The Pike Place has always been fine, IME, but I only get it once or twice a year, really.



Over-roast.  I love how diplomatic you make it sound.... They burn it.  lol


----------



## Thunderfoot

J.Quondam said:


> I had the chance to try some about 15 or 20 years ago, and, oh my!
> 
> It. was. _amazing._
> <SNIP>



Fun fact modern tomato seeds are a genetic anomaly.  Used to, the outside coating would keep the seeds inert and had to be eaten by birds whose digestive systems would erode it so the seeds could germinate.  There are still a few seeds like that but rarer every year.


----------



## darjr

Thunderfoot said:


> Hey someone else with a coconut allergy.  Mine is a little more serious, I get hives.  The big problem is most soap and shampoo is made with coconut oil.  I found out my dandruff shampoo was actually causing my dandruff.  I have about 3 soaps I can use now and am washing my hair with Dawn dishwashing liquid.
> 
> At least I'm not my sister she has eat coconut and die allergies.



I used break out in hives. Haven’t since I was a wee kid. But I still avoid things with a lot of coconut in it.

Though it’s not the oil, I can eat movie popcorn for instance.


----------



## Asisreo

Parmandur said:


> Interesting. I make my own (grind the beans, Fewmch Press, the whole deal), because that's how you get real quality, bit I also live in an area with quality coffeeshops abounding



I do the same but I like a nice mug of pour-over in the morning. There's hardly any local dedicated coffee shops nearby, but when I travel, I make sure to try the local cafés.


----------



## Aeson

Me thinking about American stuff in the international aisle.  We don't have New Zealand stuff in our international aisle. Kiwis are in produce.


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> I prefer to yum people's yuck, myself.




And now we know why we cannot have nice things.


----------



## Umbran

Thunderfoot said:


> Fun fact modern tomato seeds are a genetic anomaly.  Used to, the outside coating would keep the seeds inert and had to be eaten by birds whose digestive systems would erode it so the seeds could germinate.  There are still a few seeds like that but rarer every year.




Avocados.  That huge pit is there to pass through the guts of giant ground sloths, which are now extinct.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> Avocados.  That huge pit is there to pass through the guts of giant ground sloths, which are now extinct.



What did you call me?


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> And now we know why we cannot have nice things.



Tis the mystery of evil.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> What did you call me?




If there's anyone here I want to call the guts of a giant extinct ground sloth, it isn't you.  And, let me assure you, if I were to call someone the guts of an extinct giant ground sloth, there would be no question in their minds what they had just been called.


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> Tis the mystery of evil.




The "mystery of evil" is that humans are just more poo-flinging monkeys, but with smartphones.


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> The "mystery of evil" is that humans are just more poo-flinging monkeys, but with smartphones.



Yet we are aware of being poo flinging monkeys, and sometimes wish to be more.

_cue sweeping musical number_


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> Yet we are aware of being poo flinging monkeys, and sometimes wish to be more.
> 
> _cue sweeping musical number_




No, no no.  Stop!
_record scratch, sweeping music stops_

Lots of folks claim that.  However, push come to shove, it is revealed that they want _everyone else_ to be more, but allowed to maintain their own poo-flinging ways.  Most folk care more about how much crap they take, but not what they dish out, you see.


----------



## darjr




----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> If there's anyone here I want to call the guts of a giant extinct ground sloth, it isn't you.  And, let me assure you, if I were to call someone the guts of an extinct giant ground sloth, there would be no question in their minds what they had just been called.



I meant the pit…..


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> The "mystery of evil" is that humans are just more poo-flinging monkeys, but with smartphones.



We have invented many more ways in which to fling our poo.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> No, no no.  Stop!
> _record scratch, sweeping music stops_
> 
> Lots of folks claim that.  However, push come to shove, it is revealed that they want _everyone else_ to be more, but allowed to maintain their own poo-flinging ways.  Most folk care more about how much crap they take, but not what they dish out, you see.



Holy Musicalis Interruptus, Batman!


----------



## darjr

There is a difference between monkeys and people.

And it is the sheer joy that monkeys have flinging poo. We could learn a thing from them.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> There is a difference between monkeys and people.
> 
> And it is the sheer joy that monkeys have flinging poo. We could learn a thing from them.



Clearly you haven't been on Twitter lately.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> There is a difference between monkeys and people.
> 
> And it is the sheer joy that monkeys have flinging poo. We could learn a thing from them.




Hippos...  we're like monkeys crossed with hippos.  Deadly and...

“When hippos are defecating, they typically start spinning their tails in order to spread their faeces all over the places. The radius they cover with this spray is rather large – can reach up to 10 meters, but in some cases even standing further will not protect you.”


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> We have invented many more ways in which to fling our poo.




Thus the smartphones.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> Hippos...  we're like monkeys crossed with hippos.  Deadly and...
> 
> “When hippos are defecating, they typically start spinning their tails in order to spread their faeces all over the places. The radius they cover with this spray is rather large – can reach up to 10 meters, but in some cases even standing further will not protect you.”



a "poopellor"?


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Clearly you haven't been on Twitter lately.




I find it hard to believe those people are actually experiencing joy.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ryujin said:


> We have invented many more ways in which to fling our poo.



I just use my hands. Some times the old ways are best.


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> a "poopellor"?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Marlin Perkins Voice:   Here we see the elusive human building an excriment slinging device or poopeller.  This evolutionary device stems from observation of watching the offal hitting an oscillating cooling device to actually using said device to spread the excrement in a larger radius.

Jim is going to attempt to collect a sample before they notice and therefore become a target himself while I watch from the safety of the boat.  Be Careful Jim.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I find it hard to believe those people are actually experiencing joy.



It seems to be a rather perverse sense of joy, but joy nonetheless.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Yet we are aware of being poo flinging monkeys, and sometimes wish to be more.
> 
> _cue sweeping musical number_




Speak for yourself. I am just trying to figure out how to fling poo more efficiently. 

_He who flings the most poo, wins._


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> a "poopellor"?




I'm afraid to google it... but Hippo Poop should have some impressive examples.  I think I only saw a pygmy hippo do it live (at a zoo), and there was a big glass wall separating us.


----------



## payn

Why fling; when you can light a bag on fire and leave it on someone's doorstep?


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> I'm afraid to google it... but Hippo Poop should have some impressive examples.  I think I only saw a pygmy hippo do it live (at a zoo), and there was a big glass wall separating us.



Oh there certainly are some impressive videos out there! I have a whole bookmark category dedicated to "hippo poop spray."


_* No, not really.

** Well, _probably_ not really._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> I have a whole bookmark category dedicated to "hippo poop spray."




That's your bookmark category?

_That's my cologne!_


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's your bookmark category?
> 
> _That's my cologne!_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


>


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



_Hello_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> _Hello_









How YOO doin'?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> How YOO doin'?







Me and my 70s drow stache are good.


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> View attachment 152411
> 
> Me and my 70s drow stache are good.



Just reinforces my opinion that Drow are Mirror Universe Elves. No Elf from this universe can grow facial hair worthy of the name.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ryujin said:


> Just reinforces my opinion that Drow are Mirror Universe Elves. No Elf from this universe can grow facial hair worthy of the name.



Incidentally, if someone asks me to demonstrate in one picture why Greyhawk is better than FR I bring this bad boy out. What else would I need to convince you?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> Incidentally, if someone asks me to demonstrate in one picture why Greyhawk is better than FR I bring this bad boy out. What else would I need to convince you?









...._Greyhawk is better than FR .... mmmmm..... _


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Zardnaar

Aeson said:


> Me thinking about American stuff in the international aisle.  We don't have New Zealand stuff in our international aisle. Kiwis are in produce.




 Has a few products from various countries. Tried danish biscuits, Indian heat and eat vegetarian curries, there's a couple of flavours of pop tarts. Didn't like Dr Pepper. 

 International beer is just in the beer section same with wine, and I don't get Oreos (Arnotts an Australian brand muders them quality wise).

 And we have a British candy shop that sells British snacks as well crisps, chips etc.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Zardnaar said:


> And we have a British candy shop that sells British snacks as well crisps, chips etc.



I felt cheated after trying Walker's crisps and realizing they were just regular old crappy Lay's.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

_Facts are just opinions with a bias against me._

-Abraham Lincoln, probably.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I felt cheated after trying Walker's crisps and realizing they were just regular old crappy Lay's.



Lay's are fricken delicious. You just need to be in the right state of mind.


----------



## Zardnaar

eyeheartawk said:


> I felt cheated after trying Walker's crisps and realizing they were just regular old crappy Lay's.




 Monster Munch!!

  Here we just by NZ chips and chocolate due to lack of better options. European chocolate is good. 

  My taste buds aren't that patriotic though as I prefer Aussie wine and European beer.


----------



## Zardnaar

And I haven't found imported flavours like this. 



			https://www.newworld.co.nz/shop/product/5036486_EA_000nw?storeId=80bebcaf-d5a3-4ca6-a999-beab902aef55&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmeKQBhDvARIsAHJ7mF7xclfOJrSjPrVZECav8fTwvkrFYTYh9n-MbkLuh7c_4Wem6UPoUF0aAvNSEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
		





			https://www.newworld.co.nz/shop/product/5036489_EA_000nw?storeId=80bebcaf-d5a3-4ca6-a999-beab902aef55&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmeKQBhDvARIsAHJ7mF4D4LI3g8NWy99ZvL7aqypPG-hd2AyMlTMtQp0NQtlDZjLAr610Ck0aAprMEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## Ryujin

Zardnaar said:


> Has a few products from various countries. Tried danish biscuits, Indian heat and eat vegetarian curries, there's a couple of flavours of pop tarts. Didn't like Dr Pepper.
> 
> International beer is just in the beer section same with wine, and I don't get Oreos (Arnotts an Australian brand muders them quality wise).
> 
> And we have a British candy shop that sells British snacks as well crisps, chips etc.



Oh, the poor buggers who have never had Tim-Tams, usually available here in the chocolates aisle of Shoppers Drug Mart. I used to send some of my American friends bags of 50 Hallowe'en sized chocolate bars because ours are so much better than theirs.


----------



## Aeson

Zardnaar said:


> Didn't like Dr Pepper.
> <snip>






Zardnaar said:


> , and I don't get Oreos



Philistine


----------



## Zardnaar

Aeson said:


> Philistine




 Sweet summer child you don't know any better.


----------



## Zardnaar

Ryujin said:


> Oh, the poor buggers who have never had Tim-Tams, usually available here in the chocolates aisle of Shoppers Drug Mart. I used to send some of my American friends bags of 50 Hallowe'en sized chocolate bars because ours are so much better than theirs.




 Big fan of Arnotts combined with a decline in quality of our traditional biscuits. 

 Basically buy Arnotts, smaller brands or buy from a bakery. 

 Yanks don't get to eat afghans or Anzac biscuits.


----------



## Ryujin

Zardnaar said:


> Big fan of Arnotts combined with a decline in quality of our traditional biscuits.
> 
> Basically buy Arnotts, smaller brands or buy from a bakery.
> 
> Yanks don't get to eat afghans or Anzac biscuits.



I'd take good old fashioned chewy oatmeal cookies over Anzac Biscuits, however, I would never turn them away if offered.


----------



## Zardnaar

Ryujin said:


> I'd take good old fashioned chewy oatmeal cookies over Anzac Biscuits, however, I would never turn them away if offered.




 What about chocolate dipped ones?


----------



## Aeson

Zardnaar said:


> Sweet summer child you don't know any better.



You're probably not wrong.


----------



## CleverNickName

You want good American food?

Fly into Kansas City, KS, and drive out of town for about an hour, in any direction.  You'll find yourself in a small town with a gas station, and it will have a barbecue smoker set up outside under a canopy, next to a picnic table.  Pull over, and ask the person stoking the fire "what's good today?"  Order whatever they answer with.  If they say "the brisket's real good today," order that brisket.  If they say "Beuford made his sausages fresh this morning," order those sausages.  If they say "oh baby it's aaallll good," tell them you want a sample plate.

Then hand them a $10 bill, take a seat at that picnic table, and prepare your body for the best barbecue on earth.


----------



## Aeson

I think you mean Texas. BBQ is the only good thing about Texas. Well, BBQ, and Austin.


----------



## J.Quondam

Oh! Is this the part where we get to argue about what _real_ barbecue is?


----------



## eyeheartawk

J.Quondam said:


> Oh! Is this the part where we get to argue about what _real_ barbecue is?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Oh! Is this the part where we get to argue about what _real_ barbecue is?




Real BBQ is like real pizza.

No pineapple.


----------



## Zardnaar

I don't think we can compete in the bbq front. They're kinda basic here, sausages, steak, eggs, things like that. 

 My favorite American place closed just after first Covid lockdown. Nice Tex Mex/gumbo food and cheap.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Lay's are fricken delicious. You just need to be in the right state of mind.



Eh, you know, I've just been ruined by kettle cooked chips, I can't go back now.


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> Oh! Is this the part where we get to argue about what _real_ barbecue is?



Oh you won't get an argument from me; Kansas-City style barbecue is far and away my favorite.  You might as well try to convince @Snarf Zagyg to eat pineapple on a pizza.

EDIT:  I mean no disrespect to Carolina-style, Memphis-style, Alabama-style, or any of the half-dozen Texas-styles.  Like pizza, it's all good.  Really.  I just happen to have a favorite, that's all.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Zardnaar said:


> Tex Mex/gumbo food



What?

That's a strange combo, I would love to see the menu!


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Real BBQ is like real pizza.
> 
> No pineapple.



False.





(Again, not my favorite.  But tasty nevertheless.)


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> False.
> View attachment 152413
> 
> (Again, not my favorite.  But tasty nevertheless.)



You beat me to it. lol Pineapple and BBQ have a long history. A long delicious history.


----------



## Zardnaar

eyeheartawk said:


> What?
> 
> That's a strange combo, I would love to see the menu!




 They were an American couple. One was from Texas the other Louisiana. 

 It was mostly tex-mex but they occasionally made gumbo.

 Recently got Taco Bell here apparently it's not good. Idk if it's just not to our taste or theyre bad haven't tried it.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Zardnaar said:


> They were an American couple. One was from Texas the other Louisiana.
> 
> It was mostly tex-mex but they occasionally made gumbo.



Hey man, I'd be down for a plate of fajitas with a side of gumbo.


----------



## Zardnaar

eyeheartawk said:


> Hey man, I'd be down for a plate of fajitas with a side of gumbo.




 I can't recall it's name but usually vwent for this not quite a pizza. It was like two wraps with the filling layered between them.


----------



## payn

I need to invent a drink named "Russian warship go f yourself."


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

You know, I thought that this thread was weird the multiple different times it changed into disgusting food combinations and pizza wars, but those are nothing compared to the past few pages that I woke up to read today. 

Never change, ENWorld. Never change.


----------



## Zardnaar

payn said:


> I need to invent a drink named "Russian warship go f yourself."






 Last week. 

 This week.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Zardnaar said:


> I can't recall it's name but usually vwent for this not quite a pizza. It was like two wraps with the filling layered between them.



Sounds like a Quesadilla. 


Zardnaar said:


> View attachment 152414
> 
> Last week.
> View attachment 152415
> This week.



Krombacher is good! Hard to find in the States, normally I have to settle for Bittburger, which is also very good.


----------



## South by Southwest

Zardnaar said:


> They were an American couple. One was from Texas the other Louisiana.
> 
> It was mostly tex-mex but they occasionally made gumbo.
> 
> *Recently got Taco Bell here apparently it's not good. Idk if it's just not to our taste or theyre bad haven't tried it.*



No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no: Taco Bell has always smelled (and to me rather tasted) like a burning dumpster. We'd drive past one while I was in graduate school and everyone in the car would note the horrible smell. That stuff does not even deserve to be called "food." MREs likely provide better sustenance.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no: Taco Bell has always smelled (and to me rather tasted) like a burning dumpster. We'd drive past one while I was in graduate school and everyone in the car would note the horrible smell. That stuff does not even deserve to be called "food." MREs likely provide better sustenance.



Its true, Taco Bell is nasty. Im getting heartburn just typing the name... No quiero, no quiero!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I need to invent a drink named "Russian warship go f yourself."




1. Pour in the Alize Bleu.

2. Pour in the Red Bull.

3. Drink until you don't see the news.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Real BBQ is like real pizza.
> 
> No pineapple.




_Hawaii looks at you sternly._


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. Pour in the Alize Bleu.
> 
> 2. Pour in the Red Bull.
> 
> 3. Drink until you don't see the news.



I found a joint locally that sells Horilka and im leaving soon to get a bottle or more...


----------



## Zardnaar

eyeheartawk said:


> Sounds like a Quesadilla.
> 
> Krombacher is good! Hard to find in the States, normally I have to settle for Bittburger, which is also very good.




 I like it. Here it's really cheap. 6 of those bottles are $14 usd. 

 Not the best beer ever but good in the macro lager category. It's cheaper than some of our "swell".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> _Hawaii looks at you sternly._




Hawaii can't be stern.

They are too lei'd back.


_Thank you, thank you! Catch me next week in the Poconos! _


----------



## Zardnaar

South by Southwest said:


> No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no: Taco Bell has always smelled (and to me rather tasted) like a burning dumpster. We'd drive past one while I was in graduate school and everyone in the car would note the horrible smell. That stuff does not even deserve to be called "food." MREs likely provide better sustenance.




 They have to comply with food standards here. Local council has a rating system A,B,C,D. Get a D and you get closed.


----------



## darjr




----------



## eyeheartawk

Guys,

Taco bell is perfectly acceptable slop. Quantity is a quality of its own.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Zardnaar said:


> They have to comply with food standards here. Local council has a rating system A,B,C,D. Get a D and you get closed.




Get an F and they let you serve pizza.

_Ladies and gentleman, welcome to New Zealand! _


----------



## Zardnaar

eyeheartawk said:


> Guys,
> 
> Taco bell is perfectly acceptable slop. Quantity is a quality of its own.




 We don't get those quantity deals here. No $1 McChickens. Apparently the quality is better idk.


----------



## Zardnaar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Get an F and they let you serve pizza.
> 
> _Ladies and gentleman, welcome to New Zealand! _




 Had American style pizza it's bland. 

  And with your coffee I wouldn't throw stones.


 Americans here eating Maccas.

 How about a burger with salami?


 Cheese roll, croissant, salad.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Guys,
> 
> Taco bell is perfectly acceptable slop. Quantity is a quality of its own.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


>



What's this balding bird saying about my beloved TB!


----------



## payn

Zardnaar said:


> Had American style pizza it's bland.
> 
> And with your coffee I wouldn't throw stones.
> 
> 
> Americans here eating Maccas.



I do approve your use of beets.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> What's this balding bird saying about my beloved TB!



The truth. It dampens your soul and gives you diarrhea.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> The truth. It dampens your soul and gives you diarrhea.



What, are we talking about Strixhaven now?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> The truth. It dampens your soul and gives you diarrhea.




Nothing bonds like Taco Bell. 






....especially the refried beans. They're like some kinda glue ... grout even. 


mmmmmmm Mas Taco Grout.


----------



## Umbran

eyeheartawk said:


> What's this balding bird saying about my beloved TB!




I will say (and I may have said before):  Some time ago, my wife kept snakes, and we had to buy rodents to feed the reptiles.  And it turns out that, pound per pound, Taco Bell food is _cheaper than rats_, when the rats are labelled "not for human consumption".


----------



## Umbran

eyeheartawk said:


> What, are we talking about Strixhaven now?




Why did you eat Strixhaven?
And did you serve it with pineapple?


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> I do approve your use of beets.



Do not pull their beads!


----------



## Ryujin

Zardnaar said:


> What about chocolate dipped ones?



I'm pushing it with regular ones, being Type 2 Diabetic


----------



## Zardnaar

Ryujin said:


> I'm pushing it with regular ones, being Type 2 Diabetic




 I very rarely eat them. 

 Dieting not being to fanatic about it but cut out most Suger, deep fried, salty stuff.


----------



## RealAlHazred

My doctor told me to eat more fiber, and the last I checked the Strixhaven book is close to 100% fiber! Win-Win!

EDIT: I am now finding out that eating the Strixhaven book does _not_ transfer the knowledge contained within directly into your mind, despite what my homeopath told me. Mea culpa. Pardon me, I need to make a pit stop...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> My doctor told me to eat more fiber, and the last I checked the Strixhaven book is close to 100% fiber! Win-Win!




I have just the thing for ya!







Pretty sure they still sell it, too....... _in New Zealand! _


----------



## Jacob Lewis

*Rogue:* "Where are the Cheetos? Can I have a Mt. Dew?"

*Wizard:* "I wanna cast _Magic Missile_!"

*Druid: *"Is it my turn yet? Let me know when we roll initiative."

Ignore me if you want, but you know this is accurate.


----------



## darjr

Can you put pineapple on it?


----------



## CleverNickName

Man, work was really hectic today.  There's so much to get caught up on here in the thread.

1.  Pineapple doesn't deserve this kind of libel.  It's delicious and you know it.
2.  I'd like to apologize to anyone who is allergic to pineapple; that was insensitive of me.
3.  There are at least three "styles" of Texas BBQ that I can think of, so you're going to have to be more specific.
4.  My version of a "Russian Warship Go F-- Yourself" cocktail would be vodka, served in a tungsten bottle and delivered by railgun.
5-19.  (Arguments and assertions regarding the superiority of Kansas City-style barbecue to all others)
20.  Taco Bell has a bad rap.
21.  Taco Bell has _earned _a bad rap.  I still like their 7-Layer Burrito, though.
22.  Strixhaven (the M:tG block) looks interesting.  Might be time to dust off my merfolk wizard deck.
23.  Strixhaven (the D&D product) is on my wishlist, but I haven't picked it up yet.  Is it worth the time?
24.  I really miss Phil Hartman.  He was gone too soon.


----------



## Zardnaar

Potato top curry mince pie. 



 Donuts? Why bother/do that to yourself?



 Sweet stuff at bakery. None of that canned whipped cream.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> Recently got Taco Bell here apparently it's not good. Idk if it's just not to our taste or theyre bad haven't tried it.



Taco Bell is really bad by the standards of fast food. Makes McDonalds look and taste like high cuisine.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> They have to comply with food standards here. Local council has a rating system A,B,C,D. Get a D and you get closed.



I'm sure Taco Bell can pass health and safety standards. But it is still super sad food.


----------



## Zardnaar

CleverNickName said:


> Man, work was really hectic today.  There's so much to get caught up on here in the thread.
> 
> 1.  Pineapple doesn't deserve this kind of libel.  It's delicious and you know it.
> 2.  I'd like to apologize to anyone who is allergic to pineapple; that was insensitive of me.
> 3.  There are at least three "styles" of Texas BBQ that I can think of, so you're going to have to be more specific.
> 4.  My version of a "Russian Warship Go F-- Yourself" cocktail would be vodka, served in a tungsten bottle and delivered by railgun.
> 5-19.  (Arguments and assertions regarding the superiority of Kansas City-style barbecue to all others)
> 20.  Taco Bell has a bad rap.
> 21.  Taco Bell has _earned _a bad rap.  I still like their 7-Layer Burrito, though.
> 22.  Strixhaven (the M:tG block) looks interesting.  Might be time to dust off my merfolk wizard deck.
> 23.  Strixhaven (the D&D product) is on my wishlist, but I haven't picked it up yet.  Is it worth the time?
> 24.  I really miss Phil Hartman.  He was gone too soon.




4. Buy this.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Zardnaar said:


> 4. Buy this.
> 
> View attachment 152427
> 
> View attachment 152428



That's a beer for heroes.


----------



## Zardnaar

eyeheartawk said:


> That's a beer for heroes.




 Green one was nicer.


----------



## Cadence

Boy scout camping trip well away from any big cities.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ryujin said:


> Oh, the poor buggers who have never had Tim-Tams, usually available here in the chocolates aisle of Shoppers Drug Mart. I used to send some of my American friends bags of 50 Hallowe'en sized chocolate bars because ours are so much better than theirs.



Had an Aussie buddy who mailed me some.   Okay, y'all got something there.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> _Hawaii looks at you sternly._



Nah, they prefer poi or SPAM.  LOL


----------



## Thunderfoot

Jacob Lewis said:


> *Rogue:* "Where are the Cheetos? Can I have a Mt. Dew?"
> 
> *Wizard:* "I wanna cast _Magic Missile_!"
> 
> *Druid: *"Is it my turn yet? Let me know when we roll initiative."
> 
> Ignore me if you want, but you know this is accurate.



If there are any girls in the bar I wanna doooo theeemmm.


----------



## Thunderfoot

The sad part about Taco Bell, before they were bought by PepsiCo foods, they used to be really really good.


----------



## Smackpixi

I dunno, I’ve never been in these forums before and don’t know any one of the people in it because I have’t spentany time reading them but I’ll just create a half dozen uninformed threads on common topics to get the discussion going because these people will bite and like me.


----------



## prabe

Smackpixi said:


> I dunno, I’ve never been in these forums before and don’t know any one of the people in it because I have’t spentany time reading them but I’ll just create a half dozen uninformed threads on common topics to get the discussion going because these people will bite and like me.



I mean, I could try to get the lay of the land first, but what would be the fun in that?


----------



## Thunderfoot

@Smackpixi ... your policies intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter...


----------



## Cadence

"I've only tried pizza a few times, and always at the same restaurant, but I'm pretty sure almost no one makes good pizza."


----------



## Smackpixi

Cadence said:


> "I've only tried pizza a few times, and always at the same restaurant, but I'm pretty sure almost no one makes good pizza."



Stupid, but not that unusual.  Feels like we need a thread to deposit evidences of human stupidity.  Make it a + thread.


----------



## Cadence

"I tried it, but it just didn't do it for me and I can't explain why" feels like something that would be nice to say more often, but is really frustrating to hear.  

Does saying it too often and broadly lead to folks writing off entire types of food, for example, based on just a fraction of it?   Does not being willing to say it enough lead to awkwardness, burnout, and angst - especially when life is being vaguely stressful already?  Is the frustration of those hearing it because of an innate desire of people to try and problem solve for other people?


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> "I tried it, but it just didn't do it for me and I can't explain why" feels like something that would be nice to say more often, but is really frustrating to hear.
> 
> Does saying it too often and broadly lead to folks writing off entire types of food, for example, based on just a fraction of it?   Does not being willing to say it enough lead to awkwardness, burnout, and angst - especially when life is being vaguely stressful already?  Is the frustration of those hearing it because of an innate desire of people to try and problem solve for other people?



Great philosophers probably refer to this as the "Pineapple Pizza Problem."


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> "I tried it, but it just didn't do it for me and I can't explain why" feels like something that would be nice to say more often, but is really frustrating to hear.



As frustrating as it is to hear this, I think it is perhaps more frustrating to say it and have people then ask you for the explanation you explicitly said you couldn't give.


----------



## Aeson

Sushi. I don't get the appeal. I've eaten it. I think it's okay, but I don't go crazy. Pizza is a staple in my life. I can't see sushi becoming one.


----------



## Smackpixi

When I was a child, I was a picky eater, then I went to college, and it was you get what you get and I learned to just eat things and not be a baby about it.  Others in the dorm just ate cereal all the time, I guess, they may be never grew up and still bitch about food.  Since college I’ve gone through periods of wealth and poverty and culinary elitism and prison, lived in a few different countries, and well, let’s see if I can feed myself for a week with 20 bucks.  And all I can say is, a normal ass adult should be able to eat whatever is served for a meal, in whatever country they’re in.  I don’t much care for bean sprouts, but somehow manage to have a Pad Thai every now and then and not tweet about the ordeal.

I dunno, maybe I’m weird,oh, I know I’m weird, but man, just eat it.  Sometimes it’s fantastic, sometimes you might want to say maybe no pineapples next time but anything intended to be edible usually is.


----------



## Cadence

Smackpixi said:


> When I was a child, I was a picky eater, then I went to college, and it was you get what you get and I learned to just eat things and not be a baby about it.  Others in the dorm just ate cereal all the time, I guess, they may be never grew up and still bitch about food.  Since college I’ve gone through periods of wealth and poverty and culinary elitism and prison, lived in a few different countries, and well, let’s see if I can feed myself for a week with 20 bucks.  And all I can say is, a normal ass adult should be able to eat whatever is served for a meal, in whatever country they’re in.  I don’t much care for bean sprouts, but somehow manage to have a Pad Thai every now and then and not tweet about the ordeal.
> 
> I dunno, maybe I’m weird,oh, I know I’m weird, but man, just eat it.  Sometimes it’s fantastic, sometimes you might want to say maybe no pineapples next time but anything intended to be edible usually is.



Food is one example.  But I assume a similar thing about not really being in to certain kinds works for type of music, movies, and literature.  ("I don't like sci-fi", "I'm not a fan of country", "I don't do graphic novels", etc...).    Food is something we often need right now and can't be too picky (without being annoyingly hungry or starving), whereas we can go without on the others for at least a while.


----------



## prabe

There is, I think, a pretty clear difference between "There are just things (foods, music, art, games, fiction, whatever) that I cannot abide" and "The things I do not like are garbage." There are some foods I simply will not eat, but I don't consider that to mean they're inedible or that someone is a Philistine for eating them (or for not eating the things I do). I have some pretty specific tastes in music and fiction and games, but I don't think someone with different tastes is having wrongbadfun.


----------



## payn

I have never had good poutine. Not sure it actually exists.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> I have never had good poutine. Not sure it actually exists.



I'm partial to gravy on fries, having grown up in Europe. But cheese curds?

Here's the thing, I'm fat, but I'm not so fat that I can't _wait_ for cheese to be done being made into cheese to eat it.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> I have never had good poutine. Not sure it actually exists.



You would probably need to go to Quebec then, to get something that you liked. Thick cut fries with gravy and fresh cheese curd is just the beginning of poutine there, not the final result. For example:





__





						Menu – Poutineville
					






					poutineville.com


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm partial to gravy on fries, having grown up in Europe. But cheese curds?
> 
> Here's the thing, I'm fat, but I'm not so fat that I can't _wait_ for cheese to be done being made into cheese to eat it.



I think mashed potatoes and gravy are one of the best things to dip fries in.

Cheese curds are a great side to get on our annual trip to Wisconsin.

Not everything that's good is good mixed together (like psionics and d&d, or pineapple and pizza ;-) ).


----------



## Cadence

"It is a totally different stir fry depending on how you do it.  At restaurant A I actually get to scoop the ingredients in the bowl myself and then they charge me based on the weight and cook it for me, at restaurant B I at least get to point at it as they scoop it, at yours I only get to put check marks on paper, and I have to use the form you gave me!  Totally different!"


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I think mashed potatoes and gravy are one of the best things to dip fries in.



Better than ketchup at least...


Cadence said:


> Cheese curds are a great side to get on our annual trip to Wisconsin.



The midwest rocks the cheese curd.


Cadence said:


> Not everything that's good is good mixed together (like psionics and d&d, or pineapple and pizza ;-) ).



True, but they gave it a name. If something is common enough to be named, it has to be good at least somewhere. Thats my working theory. I thought grits were junk based on my experiences as a Yankee. Then, I had some in a southern restaurant and they were pretty good. You just have to find the spot they make it well. Again, in theory.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> True, but they gave it a name. If something is common enough to be named, it has to be good at least somewhere.




Counterpoint- vodka martini.

There is no place that makes a vodka martini so good that it shouldn't be made with gin.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Counterpoint- vodka martini.
> 
> There is no place that makes a vodka martini so good that it shouldn't be made with gin.



Well, I did say in theory.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Better than ketchup at least...
> 
> The midwest rocks the cheese curd.
> 
> True, but they gave it a name. If something is common enough to be named, it has to be good at least somewhere. Thats my working theory. I thought grits were junk based on my experiences as a Yankee. Then, I had some in a southern restaurant and they were pretty good. You just have to find the spot they make it well. Again, in theory.



Grits are like the paste that kids eat in school. The difference is in what's put in them.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Grits are like the paste that kids eat in school. The difference is in what's put in them.



Bad grits are very like cream of wheat which seems like paste.

Good grits go well with shrimp (and other things).   It feels like there is a reason that pasta, rice, and potatoes are more popular in most places though.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Bad grits are very like cream of wheat which seems like paste.
> 
> Good grits go well with shrimp (and other things).   It feels like there is a reason that pasta, rice, and potatoes are more popular in most places though.




Grits are for kissing, not eating.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Grits are for kissing, not eating.



If they got Jalapeno and cheddar I'll kiss em all day long!


----------



## darjr

OK. I’m ready. The Meteor can hit any time now. Let’s go.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> OK. I’m ready. The Meteor can hit any time now. Let’s go.



Um ... I think you want a meteorite. Technically.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> Um ... I think you want a meteorite. Technically.



Is it a meteor until it actually hits?  (I'm ready for the battery, let the assault begin?)


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> Um ... I think you want a meteorite. Technically.



If it’s gonna happen I want a big flashy tail.
Dangit!


----------



## payn




----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Bad grits are very like cream of wheat which seems like paste.
> 
> Good grits go well with shrimp (and other things).   It feels like there is a reason that pasta, rice, and potatoes are more popular in most places though.



When they're good, as I said, the difference tends to be what has been put in them. They don't taste like much by themselves. It's like the difference between instant mashed potatoes and garlic and herb mashed potatoes. Yes, I know. "No self respecting Southerner uses instant grits."


----------



## Umbran

eyeheartawk said:


> Here's the thing, I'm fat, but I'm not so fat that I can't _wait_ for cheese to be done being made into cheese to eat it.




Cheese curds don't melt.


----------



## Gradine

I too was extremely skeptical of cheese curds.

Then I tried some


----------



## darjr

The extinction of Cheese Curds is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

Cmon big ole sky rock!


----------



## J.Quondam

I've never had poutine, or even just cheese curds. Sounds simultaneously horrifying and heavenly!
I must admit that i am... _intrigued_.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> I've never had poutine, or even just cheese curds. Sounds simultaneously horrifying and heavenly!
> I must admit that i am... _intrigued_.



Curds are served a few different ways. Raw cheese nibbles or deep fried nuggets. Both are just dandy.


----------



## J.Quondam

I drove through Wisconsin not once, but _twice_ last spring, yet somehow managed not to try curds.
I'm still trying to figure out how exactly that happened. 


edit: In retrospect, it probably was mostly do with pandemic stuff. It wasn't really a good time to play tourist while travelling.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> I drove through Wisconsin not once, but _twice_ last spring, yet somehow managed not to try curds.
> I'm still trying to figure out how exactly that happened.



Pro tip, cheese curds are widely available in the mid-west. You are not limited to Wisconsin.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> I drove through Wisconsin not once, but _twice_ last spring, yet somehow managed not to try curds.
> I'm still trying to figure out how exactly that happened.



Either really, really bad luck; or really, really _good_ luck.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Cheese curds don't melt.



Nuclear grade gravy would like to have a word with you on that matter.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Pro tip, cheese curds are widely available in the mid-west. You are not limited to Wisconsin.



Yeah, I actually did see them all over. (I think it actually snowed curds at one point?) But I wasn't doing a lot of restaurant stops, and didn't really know what to do with them myself. But I'm aiming to get up that way again sometime when "conditions" get a bit better, so I'll keep 'em on my radar for the next time....


----------



## darjr

There were these curds called Nuclear Drops. Super spicy. Warning on the bag that eating the whole thing could kill you spicy.

Ever since then other curds just seem….


----------



## Cadence

October 15th is National Cheese Curd Day.









						Culver's 10 Tasty Facts for National Cheese Curd Day
					

Culver's 10 Tasty Facts for National Cheese Curd Day. We created the first National Cheese Curd Day in 2015. Culver's cheese is made using farm fresh dairy from Wisconsin family farms. Every Culver's Cheese Curd comes from La Grander Hillside Dairy in Stanley, Wisconsin, a Culver's partner for...



					www.culvers.com


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> There were these curds called Nuclear Drops. Super spicy. Warning on the bag that eating the whole thing could kill you spicy.
> 
> Ever since then other curds just seem….



Wait.... 
Curds come _in bags?_


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> Wait....
> Curds come _in bags?_



These did. Kinda a vacuum sealed thing. When I opened it it would leak deadly deliciousness.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> Wait....
> Curds come _in bags?_



Oh yes indeed. In many varieties too.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Nuclear grade gravy would like to have a word with you on that matter.




Melting and dissolving are not technically the same thing


----------



## Mannahnin

payn said:


> Curds are served a few different ways. Raw cheese nibbles or deep fried nuggets. Both are just dandy.



Yep.  Despite being from a state bordering Canada, and living in a town with a historically high French Canadian population, I've never gotten into poutine.  But I always have cheese curds when I visit Wisconsin.  Tasty.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Thought for a thread topic-

Best restaurant meal.

I was thinking of this article ...









						I'm common as muck and spent £150 on Michelin star food to see if it's worth it
					

I went to Adams in the city centre and the food had me in tears




					www.birminghammail.co.uk


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Thought for a thread topic-
> 
> Best restaurant meal.
> 
> I was thinking of this article ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm common as muck and spent £150 on Michelin star food to see if it's worth it
> 
> 
> I went to Adams in the city centre and the food had me in tears
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.birminghammail.co.uk



Oh, that can be tough. I've had great experiences from pub feeds, but bad experiences from great restaurants, and everything in-between.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Oh, that can be tough. I've had great experiences from pub feeds, but bad experiences from great restaurants, and everything in-between.




Well, I'll have to come up with some RULES* to help you clarify your thoughts. 


*You don't want to be this guy, do you?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, I'll have to come up with some RULES* to help you clarify your thoughts.
> 
> 
> *You don't want to be this guy, do you?


----------



## Cadence

On other matters, its like Snarf was asking everyone about their favorite pizza toppings... but he hated several popular toppings instead of just pineapple.


----------



## CleverNickName

Still too busy at work to property get properly caught up.

A martini without gin is not a martini.  I don't make the rules.
The only "good" poutine I've had was at a greasy-spoon diner after an all-day hike.  Miguel de Cervantes was right; "hunger is the best sauce in the world."
You can buy cheese curds by the pound in Tillamook, OR.
I haven't been able to discern which pizza toppings Snarf likes.  (But the list of dislikes is pretty long.)


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Still too busy at work to property get properly caught up.
> 
> A martini without gin is not a martini.  I don't make the rules.



What's a Manhattan?


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> What's a Manhattan?



A rwgional modified Old Fashioned, which also isn't a Martini.


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> What's a Manhattan?



A Harvey Wall-banger with social class pretensions.


----------



## CleverNickName

Lots of drinks end up getting served in a martini glass, but they aren't martinis.  A martini is a 5:1 cocktail of gin and vermouth.


----------



## Thunderfoot

payn said:


> <SNIP>
> The midwest rocks the cheese curd.
> 
> <SNIP> Thats my working theory. I thought grits were junk based on my experiences as a Yankee. <SNIP>



Northern Midwest.  Southern Midwest rocks the milk gravy. And I love me some grits.  

There's a reason we say Southern Illinois and not downstate like them Northerners.   lol

I always like to say the heartland has northern sensibility and southern cooking.  lmao


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ryujin said:


> Grits are like the paste that kids eat in school. The difference is in what's put in them.



You have never had grits then...


----------



## payn

Thunderfoot said:


> Northern Midwest.  Southern Midwest rocks the milk gravy. And I love me some grits.
> 
> There's a reason we say Southern Illinois and not downstate like them Northerners.   lol
> 
> I always like to say the heartland has northern sensibility and southern cooking.  lmao



Lol, the reminds me of my ex wife's sister who live on the upper peninsula of MI. They call it the yoop, but I mistakenly called it the ohhhp. I was corrected and asked why I said it that way. I guess my brain was asking why am I here...


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Lol, the reminds me of my ex wife's sister who live on the upper peninsula of MI. They call it the yoop, but I mistakenly called it the ohhhp. I was corrected and asked why I said it that way. I guess my brain was asking why am I here...



Not *the* yoop, it’s *da* yoop. 
And here’s a song by Da Yoopers


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> What's a Manhattan?



2 oz. Bourbon (or rye), 1 oz. vermouth, dash of bitters, garnished with cherry (usually with sweet vermouth) or lemon (usually with dry vermouth). Can be served on the rocks or up (in a cocktail glass).


----------



## Parmandur

Grits are way more fancy if you just call it polenta.


----------



## Umbran

Thunderfoot said:


> You have never had grits then...




Sure.  In an Italian restaurant - they called it "polenta".

Edit to add: Italian food ninja'd!


----------



## Ryujin

Thunderfoot said:


> You have never had grits then...



Sure have. In Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, and North Carolina.


----------



## payn

Yeah...that thread is a bad idea.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Yeah...that thread is a bad idea.



Evergreen post.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Sure have. In Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, and North Carolina.




Telling folks "they haven't had _real_ X..." is a lame bit anyway.  If the best defense of your favorite thing is to gaslight, maybe your favorite thing ain't all that great.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> Telling folks "they haven't had _real_ X..." is a lame bit anyway.  If the best defense of your favorite thing is to gaslight, maybe your favorite thing ain't all that great.



Yeap, which is why I have turned to saying I havent had the good stuff yet. Im hoping they point me in the right direction instead of just saying they dont like my kind round those parts.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Telling folks "they haven't had _real_ X..." is a lame bit anyway.  If the best defense of your favorite thing is to gaslight, maybe your favorite thing ain't all that great.



As a Scotsman (by descent only), I can't help but agree.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

I wanted to say that a particular thread has been nothing more than rampant speculation fueled by self-serving wishful thinking and outmoded gatekeeping. But that seems unfair to other threads that may also deserve it. Too many, really.


----------



## Parmandur

Ryujin said:


> As a Scotsman (by descent only), I can't help but agree.



I don't think you would day that if you were a _True_ Scostman.


----------



## Ryujin

Parmandur said:


> I don't think you would day that if you were a _True_ Scostman.



Well caught


----------



## trappedslider

how many random topic threads do we need? lol


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> how many random topic threads do we need? lol


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


>


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


>



we got htis one and the hive..i'm just wondering at this point what is the difference between the two lol


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> we got htis one and the hive..i'm just wondering at this point what is the difference between the two lol



Pineapple and catsup.


----------



## J.Quondam

Uh oh, there's another divisive one:  catsup or ketchup?
And which is better on pizza?

Let's keep it civil, please.


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> Uh oh, there's another divisive one:  catsup or ketchup?
> And which is better on pizza?
> 
> Let's keep it civil, please.



As long as it isn't going on the hot dogs!


----------



## BookTenTiger

Umbran said:


> Telling folks "they haven't had _real_ X..." is a lame bit anyway.  If the best defense of your favorite thing is to gaslight, maybe your favorite thing ain't all that great.



You only say that because you've never had _real _gaslighting before... And even if you think you did, you probably are just crazy from inhaling all that gas!


----------



## Cadence

That being said, saw this on twitter the other day.


----------



## prabe

BookTenTiger said:


> You only say that because you've never had _real _gaslighting before... And even if you think you did, you probably are just crazy from inhaling all that gas!



Not so much crazy as lightheaded, probably.


----------



## payn

My favorite are the folks that think anybody actually cares if its called a snowmobile or a snow machine.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> My favorite are the folks that think anybody actually cares if its called a snowmobile or a snow machine.




Isn't the former he thing that drives on snow with skis in the front and the later is either a thing that makes it or a vehicle that drives through it without the skies upfront?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Isn't one the thing that drives on snow with skis in the front and the other is either a thing that makes it or a vehicle that drives through it without the skies upfront?



Nobody cares, really.


----------



## Ryujin

Naw, the thing with the skis at the front and tracks on the back is a Bombardier.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Naw, the thing with the skis at the front and tracks on the back is a Bombardier.



I thought a Bombardier was an aircraft....


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I thought a Bombardier was an aircraft....



Bombardier make may sorts of vehicles. Ski-doos (like Jet-skis), at least one brand of snow vehicle, plus a couple of car-motorcycle hybrids. And they might make aircraft, as well.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> I thought a Bombardier was an aircraft....



I thought it was a cocktail.

*Bombardier*
1 1⁄2 oz Rye
3⁄4 oz Campari
3⁄4 oz Coffee liqueur
1⁄2 oz Sweet vermouth
dash bitters
twist of lemon peel (as garnish)

Instructions
Stir, strain, rock, twist.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I thought it was a cocktail.
> 
> *Bombardier*
> 1 1⁄2 oz Rye
> 3⁄4 oz Campari
> 3⁄4 oz Coffee liqueur
> 1⁄2 oz Sweet vermouth
> dash bitters
> twist of lemon peel (as garnish)
> 
> Instructions
> Stir, strain, rock, twist.



That looks familiar, and good. I'll have to try that.


----------



## darjr

I’m not posting in the other thread.


----------



## Asisreo

Umbran said:


> Telling folks "they haven't had _real_ X..." is a lame bit anyway. If the best defense of your favorite thing is to gaslight, maybe your favorite thing ain't all that great.



Trust me, if you think that's gaslighting, you haven't had _real_ gaslighting.


----------



## Asisreo

BookTenTiger said:


> You only say that because you've never had _real _gaslighting before... And even if you think you did, you probably are just crazy from inhaling all that gas!



Darn.


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> I’m not posting in the other thread.



Uh oh... Did someone bring up metal armor in the "plant shape for druids" thread??


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> Nobody cares, really.



Unless its part of historical storytelling.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> Unless its part of historical storytelling.


----------



## darjr

It’s why there are two.


----------



## darjr

Holy Minolta I’m just testing it.


----------



## Umbran

BookTenTiger said:


> And even if you think you did, you probably are just crazy from inhaling all that gas!




Havng just read a bit where folks are _inhaling diesel fumes_ to cure covid... well, I'm not the crazy one.


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> Havng just read a bit where folks are _inhaling diesel fumes_ to cure covid... well, I'm not the crazy one.



Does it count as a cure if you just don't care about it anymore?


----------



## darjr

If you die does it count as killing the infection?


----------



## J.Quondam

And do you still get the XP for it?


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> And do you still get the XP for it?



Oh that’s a deep cross sub-post!


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Bombardier make may sorts of vehicles. Ski-doos (like Jet-skis), at least one brand of snow vehicle, plus a couple of car-motorcycle hybrids. And they might make aircraft, as well.



They do. (They also make streetcars.)





__





						Our jets
					

What we do Bombardier’s line of innovative business jets is the most comprehensive in the industry, including the leading Learjet, Challenger and Global families.




					bombardier.com


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> And do you still get the XP for it?


----------



## J.Quondam

My next character is totally gonna be a bard named Covid.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> Telling folks "they haven't had _real_ X..." is a lame bit anyway.  If the best defense of your favorite thing is to gaslight, maybe your favorite thing ain't all that great.



That sounds like Northerner talk.   bwahahah


----------



## Thunderfoot

trappedslider said:


> how many random topic threads do we need? lol



All of them.


----------



## Thunderfoot

It's fake news... at least to someone.


----------



## Thunderfoot

This is all Pres. Clinton's fault, I should know, I was there.


----------



## Smackpixi

They serve polenta in Michelin starred restaurants.  It’s essentially foufou Italian grits.  

I’m no big grits defender, but hominy, which is harder to find in Michelin starred restaurants, is something that is worth losing a limb about.  It’s how the south does corn right.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Grits, grits, hominy grits... I don't know I didn't count them...


----------



## darjr

Yup.
Oh! Turn your volume down.


----------



## Scruffy nerf herder

Hatmatter said:


> Nice idea for a thread, thank you, Retreater.
> 
> If I gave myself over to knee-jerk reactions, I would probably post ten times more than I do. I learned a long time ago, though, to merely comment when there is an idea I can support or if I can gently suggest some latent positive elements in a post. I subscribe to the notion of adding one's voice to the positive and ignoring the negative, unless it is outright oppression, but that would be irrelevant to the Enworld forum.
> 
> And, in reference to Retreaters's original post, a day or two later, I have always felt good about doing this. I cannot recall ever regretting not posting something negative. There is an inherent creation of positive energy in self-restraint.




This resonates some with me. The times that I've been overly negative, and have at least been aware of the fact, it has bothered me.

In general it's been important to find some balance and control over negativity even if only for the sake of mental health. So I've learned to apologize more and conciliate more because it makes sense and works. With more self awareness comes more self consciousness when I've done something to irritate or hurt another person.

The best I can do is hope and try to do better the next time.


----------



## Cadence

I actually remembered to check if it was a 5e or a general D&D thread before starting to type a response.


----------



## Umbran

Thunderfoot said:


> This is all Pres. Clinton's fault, I should know, I was there.




Let's not go there, please and thanks.


----------



## payn

That thread is still a bad idea.


----------



## payn

Thread search function? Who needs it?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Thread search function? Who needs it?




Payn's Ponderings; Jack Reacher vs. Reacher

Payn's Ponderings Traveller Chargen

Payn's Ponderings: The Fighter's identity; or, what's left after the combat pillar?


_Inconsistent punctuation is a sin against god and nature, and is the first step on the road to perfidy, bard-dom, and enjoying New Zealand pizzas. _


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Payn's Ponderings; Jack Reacher vs. Reacher



"Reacher", every time.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> Payn's Ponderings Traveller Chargen



Don't like your rolls? Send him to The Belt.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> Payn's Ponderings: The Fighter's identity; or, what's left after the combat pillar?



Meat Henge?


Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Inconsistent punctuation is a sin against god and nature, and is the first step on the road to perfidy, bard-dom, and enjoying New Zealand pizzas. _


----------



## Mannahnin

No, I never have, but I wish I had been for this!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Payn's Ponderings; Jack Reacher vs. Reacher
> 
> Payn's Ponderings Traveller Chargen
> 
> Payn's Ponderings: The Fighter's identity; or, what's left after the combat pillar?
> 
> 
> _Inconsistent punctuation is a sin against god and nature, and is the first step on the road to perfidy, bard-dom, and enjoying New Zealand pizza_



Im always here for the bard-dom, but god save me from NZ pizza.


----------



## darjr

Honk!


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> Meat Henge?



omg I've been laughing* at this for 20 minutes straight!


_* A very sorely needed laugh, too._


----------



## RealAlHazred

Has it been long enough? Can I start my "D&D is 40% Combat!" thread? I plan to start ones with the percentages varying a bit, every week until my demands (for pizza) are met!


----------



## darjr

Wait till my D&D is 0% pineapple, the secret to its success, forget CR thread!


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> omg I've been laughing* at this for 20 minutes straight!
> 
> 
> _* A very sorely needed laugh, too._



I can't take credit for that one. It's the product of my friend Matt Vancil's writing 

Hit this one, about 30 seconds in.

_EDIT_ - Matt wrote the thing and also plays the Orc who Carrow eats at the end of the fight.


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> That thread is still a bad idea.



bad idea to gather info to help support people in times of need?


----------



## payn

Oh no, my car warranty is about to run out. I've been on my "final warning" for months now...


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Oh no, my car warranty is about to run out. I've been on my "final warning" for months now...



But _there's still time if you act right now!_


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> bad idea to gather info to help support people in times of need?




Please let us not engage in arguing over whether a thread should or should not exist in here.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Oh no, my car warranty is about to run out. I've been on my "final warning" for months now...



I've been there for years


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> Please let us not engage in arguing over whether a thread should or should not exist in here.



I would assume arguing about the viability of pizza-topping threads is still permitted, since it's the whole purpose of this thread, as far as I can tell?


----------



## trappedslider

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I would assume arguing about the viability of pizza-topping threads is still permitted, since it's the whole purpose of this thread, as far as I can tell?



I thought the existence of this thread was to avoid posting in other threads or even forums like the meta forum?


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> I thought the existence of this thread was to avoid posting in other threads or even forums like the meta forum?




It is for putting vague, generalized versions of posts that you know wouldn't be constructive in an existing thread.  It is most definitely _not_ for having side discussion about, or that actually belongs in, an existing thread.

The pizza thing is just because folks have decided that ragging on pineapple on pizza is "cool".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> It is for putting vague, generalized versions of posts that you know wouldn't be constructive in an existing thread.  It is most definitely _not_ for having side discussion about, or that actually belongs in, an existing thread.
> 
> The pizza thing is just because folks have decided that ragging on pineapple on pizza is "cool".




No. 

The pizza thing was just to find out who would be the first to use quotation marks around cool, thereby outing themselves as ... not-cool.

_Don't trust anyone over thirty, or anyone who use uses written air quotes. _- Jack Weinberg, undoubtedly.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> ...from NZ pizza.





Liane the Wayfarer said:


> the viability of pizza-topping threads...





Umbran said:


> The pizza thing ...





Snarf Zagyg said:


> The pizza thing ...




(CleverNickName has entered the chat)


----------



## darjr

Jeff Dee is going to draw a cover for Knights of the Dinner Table! A parody of a D&D tract!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> I thought the existence of this thread was to avoid posting in other threads or even forums like the meta forum?




Wait. This thread has a porpoise?






Who knew?


----------



## Cadence

The trick is to substitute Pineapple Pizza and Ketchup on Hotdogs in for what the thread you want to comment on is about.


----------



## darjr

I’ve fallen and I can’t get up.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> It is for putting vague, generalized versions of posts that you know wouldn't be constructive in an existing thread.  It is most definitely _not_ for having side discussion about, or that actually belongs in, an existing thread.
> 
> The pizza thing is just because folks have decided that ragging on pineapple on pizza is "cool".



I've been playing D&D since high school, in the '70s. Despite what Mr. Chick would have you believe, I've never been cool.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> The trick is to substitute Pineapple Pizza and Ketchup on Hotdogs in for what the thread you want to comment on is about.



You know... Instead of "naughty word", ENWorld's profanity filter should be reprogrammed to say "pineapple pizza".


----------



## Cadence

I'm now picturing <insert company name> Pineapple Ketchup for Hot Dogs and Pizza.   With promised delivery date and picture of a nice stack at the end of an aisle to show it will be ready.


----------



## payn

Was Batman vs zombies neutral evil?


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> You know... Instead of "naughty word", ENWorld's profanity filter should be reprogrammed to say "pineapple pizza".



As a vocal fan of pineapple on pizza, I support this.
Normalize pineapple on pizza!  Boost the signal!  Get people talking about it!


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> As a vocal fan of pineapple on pizza, I support this.
> Normalize pineapple on pizza!  Boost the signal!  Get people talking about it!



_something something_ ...better than no publicity _... something something_


----------



## Thunderfoot

BLACKLEAF!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo....


----------



## Gradine

J.Quondam said:


> You know... Instead of "naughty word", ENWorld's profanity filter should be reprogrammed to say "pineapple pizza".



This but unironically


----------



## Gradine

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that a long effort post about how the roots of pineapple pizza can be traced back to U.S. Imperialism is probably gonna be a nono


----------



## Asisreo

J.Quondam said:


> You know... Instead of "naughty word", ENWorld's profanity filter should be reprogrammed to say "pineapple pizza".



Sure, but now I'll get banned for simply saying "I'd rather eat pineapple pizza than play your homebrew" 

Then again, I can't imagine when I'd say such a phrase without a filter.


----------



## Asisreo

The last thing I'd want to do is post in that thread...sorry, but I've been burned before. Maybe I'll give it a year or two to see if it's right.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that a long effort post about how the roots of pineapple pizza can be traced back to U.S. Imperialism is probably gonna be a nono



It's Canadian!


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The pizza thing was just to find out who would be the first to use quotation marks around cool, thereby outing themselves as ... not-cool.




Oh, I am not, and never have been, and undoubtedly never will be, cool.  I am so un-hip, it is a wonder my backside doesn't fall off.  No illusions there.  Implying that I am not cool is like implying that water is wet.  News Flash:  The Earth is still turning, and Umbran is not cool.  No film at 11 though, 'cuz we only show cool people on the news.


----------



## Parmandur

Asisreo said:


> The last thing I'd want to do is post in that thread...sorry, but I've been burned before. Maybe I'll give it a year or two to see if it's right.



Ia, Ia, Asisreo! Arise, the stars are right!


----------



## CleverNickName

Asisreo said:


> Sure, but now I'll get banned for simply saying "I'd rather eat pineapple pizza than play your homebrew"
> 
> Then again, I can't imagine when I'd say such a phrase without a filter.



To be fair, I'd rather eat pineapple pizza than play any homebrew.  Including my own.


----------



## Thunderfoot

CleverNickName said:


> To be fair, I'd rather eat pineapple pizza than play any homebrew.  Including my own.



There is no pineapple pizza, pineapple pizza, way I'm ever gonna pineapple pizza eat pineapple pizza.


----------



## Cadence

Apples and carrots, but not melons or potatoes.


----------



## Hatmatter

Scruffy nerf herder said:


> This resonates some with me. The times that I've been overly negative, and have at least been aware of the fact, it has bothered me.
> 
> In general it's been important to find some balance and control over negativity even if only for the sake of mental health. So I've learned to apologize more and conciliate more because it makes sense and works. With more self awareness comes more self consciousness when I've done something to irritate or hurt another person.
> 
> The best I can do is hope and try to do better the next time.



Nicely said, Scruffy Nerf Herder!


----------



## darjr

I always thought it was strange how in AD&D the characters knew what level they were. Strange and weird and cool. But did they know how many Hit Points they had?


----------



## trappedslider

Is there an unwritten internet rule that says you have to post that you aren't going to post in a thread anymore?


----------



## Scruffy nerf herder

trappedslider said:


> Is there an unwritten internet rule that says you have to post that you aren't going to post in a thread anymore?




No, because then it would be a written rule. You have to figure it out by playing charades.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

trappedslider said:


> Is there an unwritten internet rule that says you have to post that you aren't going to post in a thread anymore?



Everyone knows it's not valid until the third time you post that in the same thread within 24 hours.


----------



## darjr

I’m not going to post in that thread anymore


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Oh, I am not, and never have been, and undoubtedly never will be, cool.  I am so un-hip, it is a wonder my backside doesn't fall off.  No illusions there.  Implying that I am not cool is like implying that water is wet.  News Flash:  The Earth is still turning, and Umbran is not cool.  No film at 11 though, 'cuz we only show cool people on the news.




Really, you just need to start tuning out the external distractions.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Really, you just need to start tuning out the external distractions.




To be cool, you mean?  Nah.  Being cool is not one of my goals or desires.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> To be cool, you mean?  Nah.  Being cool is not one of my goals or desires.


----------



## Mannahnin

Umbran said:


> To be cool, you mean?  Nah.  Being cool is not one of my goals or desires.



Does Morrus use that as a screening criteria for mods here, like my old Admins did?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Thought for today...


At one time, on broadcast TV, there was a show called ... _BJ and the Bear._


No, it wasn't about that. And yes, you're welcome.


----------



## Umbran

Mannahnin said:


> Does Morrus use that as a screening criteria for mods here, like my old Admins did?




Not at all.  Danny's pretty cool.  And some of the past mods were cool (Piratecat and Rel, for example, were cool guys).  I, however, am not.


----------



## Bolares

Umbran said:


> To be cool, you mean?  Nah.  Being cool is not one of my goals or desires.



That's what a cool person would say though...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> That's what a cool person would say though...


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Thought for today...
> 
> 
> At one time, on broadcast TV, there was a show called ... _BJ and the Bear._
> 
> 
> No, it wasn't about that. And yes, you're welcome.



Like Joanie loves Chachi? Wasnt about that either. or was it?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Umbran said:


> To be cool, you mean?  Nah.  Being cool is not one of my goals or desires.




 Everyone is cool eventually. It's inevitable that we'll reach room temperature after we die.


----------



## darjr

I’m too cool to stoop to being cool.


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> I’m too cool to stoop to being cool.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Like Joanie loves Chachi? Wasnt about that either. or was it?




I mean... that's NOT what it was about?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean... that's NOT what it was about?



Funny story, Chachi isnt a name but a thing in certain languages. Some international markets had a huge record breaking pilot episode ratings, that rapidly plummeted afterwards.


----------



## CleverNickName

Thunderfoot said:


> There is no pineapple pizza, pineapple pizza, way I'm ever gonna pineapple pizza eat pineapple pizza.








Yes, keep it up!

"I keep hearing about pineapple pizza on the internet, I should try it!  on camera!  and share it on YouTube and Twitter and TicTok and..."  
-trendsetters, probably

"People On The Internet Can't Stop Talking About Pineapple Pizza"
"The Internet Is Obsessed With Pineapple On Pizza"
"What Gen-Xers Are Saying About Pineapple On Pizza"
-news article headlines, coming soon


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran is a mod and therefore "The Man," and therefore by definition "not cool." We're all nerds, and therefore "not cool" to the standards of General Public.

However, I've never liked career brass in the military, so I say "Screw General Public!" Who put _him_ in charge?

On a more serious note, I don't generally think of "people" as "cool" because every person is a huge pot of ideas, some conflicting, bubbling and frothing over. An _idea _can be cool, but a _person _has too many moving parts for me to assign a single specifier to the conglomerate. Just my $0.02


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Funny story, Chachi isnt a name but a thing in certain languages. Some international markets had a huge record breaking pilot episode ratings, that rapidly plummeted afterwards.




Oh, I know.

Again, that's not what it's about? Not to be crude ... but Joanie was trying to get the Chachi.


...not that there's anything wrong with that.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Oh, I know.
> 
> Again, that's not what it's about? Not to be crude ... but Joanie was trying to get the Chachi.
> 
> 
> ...not that there's anything wrong with that.



I dont know man, I just wanted to tell a funny story about a TV show name. Its what I pineapple pizza get for trying to be cool


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> We're all nerds, and therefore "not cool" to the standards of General Public.




Wait ... what?







I'm not going to hang out with a bunch of ... nerds. Those are my principles, and if you don't like 'em, well ... I have others.


----------



## trappedslider

I didn't want to comment in that thread or that other thread or that other other thread......


----------



## Jacob Lewis




----------



## Umbran

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> However, I've never liked career brass in the military, so I say "Screw General Public!" Who put _him_ in charge?




Better General Public than the alternatives - Private Shame, Major Scerwup, or Captain O'Industry.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Look, there's the orc. There's the pie. You know the drill!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> Not at all.  Danny's pretty cool.  And some of the past mods were cool (Piratecat and Rel, for example, were cool guys).  I, however, am not.



Has anyone heard from them lately???  I miss those guys.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> Better General Public than the alternatives - Private Shame, Major Scerwup, or Captain O'Industry.



I prefer Corporal Punishment... bwahahah


----------



## CleverNickName

Saw this on Twitter:
"Sad that Conan comics have to be censored/changed/redesigned due to some people being offended.  If you're offended don't buy it or read it."

No.  The comics don't "*have to be *censored/changed/redesigned."  There is no law or regulation requiring the publisher to do this.  The only people who are driving these changes are the "offended" people you mentioned, doing exactly what you suggested they should do.


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> Saw this on Twitter:
> "Sad that Conan comics have to be censored/changed/redesigned due to some people being offended.  If you're offended don't buy it or read it."
> 
> No.  The comics don't "*have to be *censored/changed/redesigned."  There is no law or regulation requiring the publisher to do this.  The only people who are driving these changes are the "offended" people you mentioned, doing exactly what you suggested they should do.



ie: If they _have to be_ changed, that sounds like most of the audience prefers them to be changed.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Saw this on Twitter:
> "Sad that Conan comics have to be censored/changed/redesigned due to some people being offended.  If you're offended don't buy it or read it."




This anti-Ginger hate is getting out of hand.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Where's the thread about things we didn't say in_ this_ thread?   

On a related note, there was a guy I used to know from the Rocky Horror scene whose day job was being a cop. He was a major perv, so I occasionally referred to him as "Officer Inappropriately Friendly"...


----------



## Umbran

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Umbran is a mod and therefore "The Man," and therefore by definition "not cool."




True.  But, in all honesty, my lack of coolness predates the existence of EN World.  Heck, it predates the existence of websites at all.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Thought for today...
> 
> 
> At one time, on broadcast TV, there was a show called ... _BJ and the Bear._
> 
> 
> No, it wasn't about that. And yes, you're welcome.



But it is the reference for this band name:









						Minus the Bear - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## darjr

Mad_Jack said:


> Where's the thread about things we didn't say in_ this_ thread?



Yes, it’s this thread.




Mad_Jack said:


> On a related note, there was a guy I used to know from the Rocky Horror scene whose day job was being a cop. He was a major perv, so I occasionally referred to him as "Officer Inappropriately Friendly"...





Ooohhh. But it looks like you already figured it out.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Yes, it’s this thread.




So if we want to not talk about something in this thread, we talk about it in this thread. 

I ... wait ... so everything we are saying here is actually what we aren't saying ... and ... 

um ....


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Better General Public than the alternatives - Private Shame, Major Scerwup, or Captain O'Industry.



Hey, they were pretty good!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So if we want to not talk about something in this thread, we talk about it in this thread.
> 
> I ... wait ... so everything we are saying here is actually what we aren't saying ... and ...
> 
> um ....


----------



## Jacob Lewis

When I read several pages where people are engaging rigorously with those who I have selected for ignored status, I can feel good about my own personal choices.


----------



## South by Southwest

Thunderfoot said:


> There is no pineapple pizza, pineapple pizza, way I'm ever gonna pineapple pizza eat pineapple pizza.



Surprisingly compelling.


----------



## Umbran

Every time I see one of certain threads, the following goes through my mind:

Are you Pondering what I'm Pondering?
I think so, Payn.  But really, the shipping costs to get a pair of lederhosen to Morrus overnight would be prohibitive....


----------



## Asisreo

I refuse. It's comfy up here. I named her Kali and she is fun to ri-

Oh, you mean metaphorically...


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> Every time I see one of certain threads, the following goes through my mind:
> 
> Are you Pondering what I'm Pondering?
> I think so, Payn.  But really, the shipping costs to get a pair of lederhosen to Morrus overnight would be prohibitive....



That's why I use Bavarian Express.  When it absolutely, positively, must be a guy in leather shorts with suspenders.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Every time I see one of certain threads, the following goes through my mind:
> 
> Are you Pondering what I'm Pondering?
> I think so, Payn.  But really, the shipping costs to get a pair of lederhosen to Morrus overnight would be prohibitive....



Via our wonderful world of online retail it is now possible to purchase lederhosen and have them shipped from a local source, thereby saving a multitude of Deutschmarks.


----------



## darjr

Hey! I own a pair of leather shorts!


----------



## Mannahnin

Umbran said:


> Every time I see one of certain threads, the following goes through my mind:
> 
> Are you Pondering what I'm Pondering?
> I think so, Payn.  But really, the shipping costs to get a pair of lederhosen to Morrus overnight would be prohibitive....





Cool though we ourselves may or may not be, it would be cool to meet up at a Boston area con and play a game.


----------



## Umbran

Mannahnin said:


> Cool though we ourselves may or may not be, it would be cool to meet up at a Boston area con and play a game.




Unfortunately, I don't go to many conventions, and when I do, I'm not generally playing games.

Back in the day, there was a tradition of the EN World Gameday.  Someone with a large enough house would host a day of gaming for EN Worlders in their area.  Unfortunately, the site has gotten kind of big, so an open invite into one's home is not a comfortable proposition.

But, hm.  My local library was just rebuilt, with rooms community members can supposedly reserve.  I might look at that as a way to revive the practice somewhat.


----------



## Mannahnin

Umbran said:


> Unfortunately, I don't go to many conventions, and when I do, I'm not generally playing games.
> 
> Back in the day, there was a tradition of the EN World Gameday.  Someone with a large enough house would host a day of gaming for EN Worlders in their area.  Unfortunately, the site has gotten kind of big, so an open invite into one's home is not a comfortable proposition.
> 
> But, hm.  My local library was just rebuilt, with rooms community members can supposedly reserve.  I might look at that as a way to revive the practice somewhat.



Sounds like a cool idea!  Less effort could be just a small members meetup someplace like TotalCon (which we've just missed), or the new Rising Phoenix con coming up in April, or BostonFIG, which hopefully might get back to in person this year or next.


----------



## Umbran

Mannahnin said:


> Sounds like a cool idea!  Less effort could be just a small members meetup someplace like TotalCon (which we've just missed), or the new Rising Phoenix con coming up in April, or BostonFIG, which hopefully might get back to in person this year or next.




If there's a mess of EN Worlders at those conventions, that's a cool idea.  You might want to send up a flare asking who is apt to be going to them - April isn't far away.


----------



## CleverNickName

When I'm scrolling through a thread and see Those GuysTM are commenting in it.


----------



## darjr

Do we need a Roll20 ORR thread? Is it just me or is it weird there wasn’t one? 

I posted on like a news item but then saw it in the general news post.


----------



## Parmandur

That awkward moment when you get a notification about a thread being necroed, but you can't see it anymore.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I feel that people should only find attractive things that I find attractive. I think this quite strongly, that my preferences should be considered the default for absolutely everyone, and that doing something _counter _to my preferences (like finding unattractive things somehow bafflingly _attractive_) should be against the law. Such people should be charged with aggravated and extreme mopery, and punished to the fullest extent of the Law.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> That awkward moment when you get a notification about a thread being necroed, but you can't see it anymore.



Ummm…. Which thread.
Asking for a friend.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Ummm…. Which thread.
> Asking for a friend.




Which thread, because that's not how the ignore/block feature is supposed to work these days.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> Which thread, because that's not how the ignore/block feature is supposed to work these days.



Note, this is jot who I meant.

It was me. Me, I’m the friend.


----------



## South by Southwest

A law against _mopery_...that'd put more teenagers in jail than ditch-weed ever did...


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Ummm…. Which thread.
> Asking for a friend.






Umbran said:


> Which thread, because that's not how the ignore/block feature is supposed to work these days.



The thread is the one about Dwarven women having beards or not. I just got some notifications for it, but when I clicked them it says that I can't see the thread. Dunno why.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Parmandur said:


> The thread is the one about Dwarven women having beards or not. I just got some notifications for it, but when I clicked them it says that I can't see the thread. Dunno why.



Obviously, from your profile picture you sport a beard, so ipso facto your opinion is clear. We must maintain the purity of our dwarven women! Will no one think of the children?!?

/s, in case it really needed to be said.


----------



## Smackpixi

The word is pronounced however I need
For my verse to scan correctly.
Whether I command my soldiers trochaicly
Or love my ladies most iambicly.


----------



## Umbran

I am not going to respond to your question, because my honest answer to the question violates three out of your five restrictions, one of which I find to be completely anathema to my approach to the subject matter.

But, walking into a thread saying, "You're just wrong and your question sucks" would be a crappy thing to do, so I won't do it.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

We need a new topic. Something with more substance and less accusations.


----------



## Ryujin

Parmandur said:


> The thread is the one about Dwarven women having beards or not. I just got some notifications for it, but when I clicked them it says that I can't see the thread. Dunno why.



There is no question, in my mind.


----------



## Aeson

Jacob Lewis said:


> We need a new topic. Something with more substance and less accusations.



I have eaten grits all of my life. I have never eaten grits with pineapple. Nor have I ever eaten grits on pizza.


----------



## trappedslider

Remember when George H. W. Bush used the phrase "New World Order" and everyone freaked out and then nothing happened? I feel like that's what's going on.


----------



## AnotherGuy

In the year 2525...


----------



## Parmandur

Aeson said:


> I have eaten grits all of my life. I have never eaten grits with pineapple. Nor have I ever eaten grits on pizza.



Polenta on pizza would probably work.


----------



## Parmandur

Aeson said:


> I have eaten grits all of my life. I have never eaten grits with pineapple. Nor have I ever eaten grits on pizza.



In fact, my two seconds of research has confirmed that grits-crust pizza is a gluten free thing:









						Recipe: Polenta Crust Pizza
					

It's gluten-free *and* whole-grain.




					www.thekitchn.com


----------



## Cadence

A few weeks away from the comic shop, and this variant cover (apparently) was waiting in my box:


----------



## CleverNickName

(CleverNickName has entered the thread.)


----------



## Aeson

Did they run out of pineapple?


----------



## Cadence

@Snarf Zagyg   How heinous is the crime I am about to commit.  The pizza I am splitting with my spouse will have pineapple on her half?


----------



## Aeson

Cadence said:


> @Snarf Zagyg   How heinous is the crime I am about to commit.  The pizza I am splitting with my spouse will have pineapple on her half?



Was she aware of this conversation? She could be tried as an accomplice in the Food Court. Da dum


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> There is no question, in my mind.



How does one prevent their beard from becoming tangled with hers? Just asking for a friend.


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> How does one prevent their beard from becoming tangled with hers? Just asking for a friend.



I don't think they worry about that much.


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> Was she aware of this conversation? She could be tried as an accomplice in the Food Court. Da dum



I did let her know...


----------



## Aeson

Why crap in a thread if you don't like the topic?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ryujin said:


> There is no question, in my mind.



I's mine that, too.  lmao


----------



## Thunderfoot

@Mannahnin and @Umbran - back when I was in the DC area our EN World game days were essentially mini cons.  Hell, Russ even showed up to one.  (Of course he was there to discuss the ENnies, but the timing was awesome.)


----------



## trappedslider

Aeson said:


> Why crap in a thread if you don't like the topic?



Forums around the world want to know the answer.
___

Is it just easier for people to automatically assume the worse of others? Because something is happening in city A therefore it must be happening in location B even if I don't have actual evidence.


----------



## Ryujin

AnotherGuy said:


> In the year 2525...



If Man is still alive...


----------



## Umbran

Aeson said:


> Why crap in a thread if you don't like the topic?




Because on the internet, considering the people on the the other end isn't a priority.  They aren't present, and that psychological distancing leads us to behaviors we likely wouldn't engage in in-person.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> Because on the internet, considering the people on the the other end isn't a priority.  They aren't present, and that psychological distancing leads us to behaviors we likely wouldn't engage in in-person.



Luckily we have the Eric's Grandma rule or else the other alternative (Rule 34) would be in play.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ryujin said:


> If Man is still alive...



If woman can survive...we may find...  (thump thump thump thump)


----------



## Cadence

I'm almost curious to find out how many you bought.


----------



## Ryujin

Thunderfoot said:


> If woman can survive...we may find...  (thump thump thump thump)



And now I just need to post it, for the uninitiated: "Exordium and Terminus."


----------



## el-remmen

I just discovered this thread but plan to make use of it in the future - esp. when I want to scream to the high heavens when a thread becomes polarized between what seems to me to be two extreme and unnuanced positions and any of a great range of possibilities between them are basically ignored. So if in the future you see a post from me in this thread with a gif like:







. . .you know what happened.


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> And some of the past mods were cool (Piratecat and Rel, for example, were cool guys).


----------



## payn

Gone for 3 days and now 10 pages more to read? Oh wait, y'all are still in the same place as when I left!

Went north to record music and drink. Accomplished one of them...


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> Gone for 3 days and now 10 pages more to read? Oh wait, y'all are still in the same place as when I left!
> 
> Went north to record music and drink. Accomplished one of them...



Ran out of hooch so you came back home. You must have been recording a country song. Or an Irish one.


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> Ran out of hooch so you came back home. You must have been recording a country song. Or an Irish one.



I prefer the term Americana annnnd bourbon.


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> I prefer the term Americana annnnd bourbon.



So you ran out of Anericana and recorded bourbon music?


----------



## prabe

Aeson said:


> So you ran out of Anericana and recorded bourbon music?



BUT AMERICANA *IS* BOURBON MUSIC


----------



## Aeson

From time to time I would listen to The International Americana Music Show on PBS. I'm aware of the genre and dig it. 









						The International Americana Music Show
					

Home page for The International Americana Music Show



					www.tiams.org


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> So you ran out of* Anericana and recorded bourbon music*?



Thats the name of the album.


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Gone for 3 days and now 10 pages more to read? Oh wait, y'all are still in the same place as when I left!
> 
> Went north to record music and drink. Accomplished one of them...



How are those different things?


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> How are those different things?



Can't speak for @payn but when I was a recording engineer, I *hated* when the "talent" showed up under the influence.


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> Can't speak for @payn but when I was a recording engineer, I *hated* when the "talent" showed up under the influence.



In my defense I was young and and drunk.


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> Thats the name of the album.



Even with my misspelling of Americana? lol


----------



## prabe

Aeson said:


> Even with my misspelling of Americana? lol



It's the *drunk* spelling, though, so it's apt.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> @Snarf Zagyg   How heinous is the crime I am about to commit.  The pizza I am splitting with my spouse will have pineapple on her half?




Inchoate crimes, such as aiding and abetting, are still crimes.

Hear me now and believe me later- the road to perfidy is lined with slices of pineapple-adorned pizzas. Perfidy is, of course, the traditional name of New Zealand.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Inchoate crimes, such as aiding and abetting, are still crimes.
> 
> Hear me now and believe me later- the road to perfidy is lined with slices of pineapple-adorned pizzas. Perfidy is, of course, the traditional name of New Zealand.



I had a piece for dinner last night :-(.  Took off the pineapple and added some pepperoni. It wasn't enough to save it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I had a piece for dinner last night :-(.  Took off the pineapple and added some pepperoni. It wasn't enough to save it.




Truly.

A lesson passed down from a true master pizza chef to all apprentices is that even the mere presence of a pineapple within 50 feet of the oven used to cook a pizza renders all future pizzas rancid and tainted; the only proper recourse is to either get a Sicilian priest to exorcise it, or to sell it to Canada.


----------



## payn

Made stir fry this weekend and you just know the extra pineapple went right onto the midnight pizza!


----------



## Mannahnin

trappedslider said:


> Remember when George H. W. Bush used the phrase "New World Order" and everyone freaked out and then nothing happened? I feel like that's what's going on.



In tangential news, I'm finally seeing Ministry a week from tomorrow, after the concert was delayed three times.


----------



## el-remmen

Let people have pineapple on their pizza! Why do you care so much? 

Now, it if it is Chicago-style casserole, uh, i mean "Pizza," it doesn't matter what's on it, that's a generational trauma that needs to be avoided.


----------



## Mannahnin

el-remmen said:


> ...pineapple on their pizza!...
> 
> ...Chicago-style casserole, uh, i mean "Pizza,"...



All of which are American dreams
All of which are American dreams
All of which are American dreams


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Let people have pineapple on their pizza! Why do you care so much?




Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to Heaven where the angels fly
They go to New Zealand with bad pizza pie
Pineapple toppings make the good people cry

I knew some people like to deny the truth
Seduced by bad pizza toppings in their terrible youth
They went to their graves just a little too soon
Last slice they ate was topped with pineapple and prunes 

Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to Heaven where the angels fly
They go to New Zealand with bad pizza pie
Pineapple toppings make the good people cry

People cry and people moan
Eat that slice and you smell the brimstone
The evil of bad toppings has always been well-known
The devils of bad taste will try to make you one of their own

Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to Heaven where the angels fly
They go to New Zealand with bad pizza pie
Pineapple toppings make the good people cry


----------



## el-remmen

welp, that didn't take long. . .


----------



## el-remmen

To be clear, the above post is regarding the original purpose of this thread, not pineapple on pizza.

regarding New Zealand: Eating pizza in another country other than Brooklyn, NY is always a gamble.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> regarding New Zealand: Eating pizza in another country other than Brooklyn, NY is always a gamble.




Just pointing out that the necessary implication of this sentence is that Brooklyn is a country.


Thinking ....


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Truly.
> 
> A lesson passed down from a true master pizza chef to all apprentices is that even the mere presence of a pineapple within 50 feet of the oven used to cook a pizza renders all future pizzas rancid and tainted; the only proper recourse is to either get a Sicilian priest to exorcise it, or to sell it to Canada.




At the place I shift managed in undergrad, we made one with all 21 (iirc) ingredients.  The taste in each bite came down to whether it had pineapple or jalapeno on it.  I should have known this endeavor was hopeless.


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Just pointing out that the necessary implication of this sentence is that Brooklyn is a country.
> 
> 
> Thinking ....




You got it. By other countries, I include Manhattan and Staten Island - avoid that pizza


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> Now, it if it is Chicago-style casserole, uh, i mean "Pizza," it doesn't matter what's on it, that's a generational trauma that needs to be avoided.




::: incoherent sputtering of rage at that remark :::


----------



## el-remmen

Oh and in reality, Brooklyn is a Planet.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> ::: incoherent sputtering of rage at that remark :::
> 
> View attachment 152923




Is that a quiche?


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Where do bad folks go when they die?




You know, this demonstrates a point raised by one of EN World's early moderators that so many people still don't get.

Taking and holding a primarily negative stance on topics of preference inevitably leads to saying something offensive.  Due to there not actually being a truth to the matter, the negative stance requires use of ever increasingly negative statements to press  its point.  Eventually, the statement is so negative as to be an insult or otherwise cheese people off.


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> To be clear, the above post is regarding the original purpose of this thread, not pineapple on pizza.
> 
> regarding New Zealand: Eating pizza in another country other than Brooklyn, NY is always a gamble.




Eating pizza in Brooklyn, NY, is also a gamble.


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> Eating pizza in Brooklyn, NY, is also a gamble.




True enough. But such a nuanced position on a stupid pointless argument is no fun, Umbran.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Is that a quiche?




Where the #%! did you see any egg in that!?!?!

' Then tough-as-nails Chicagoan Elizabeth came at me. Hard. "I don't understand why that question keeps coming up. It's called pizza, so I consider it pizza. Y'all are just being bitchy about it," she said defiantly. "When that caramelized cheese hits your f*ckin' mouth, though, you just can't deny it." '  [thrillest.com]

' Hear that, Symon? Pizza. Not casserole (gross), pot pie, swimming pool or hot tub pie machine. It's pizza. Except it's not _just_ pizza. It's pizza that does more. ' [chicagotribute.com]

I mean, or you could go with the other side and agree with Justice Scalia.  Justice: Chicago-style deep dish isn’t pizza    Who, I will note, is dead now. Maybe he wouldn't be if he hadn't said such things.


----------



## el-remmen

Justice Scalia agreeing with me on Chicago "pizza" is the best argument that I should reconsider my position anyone has ever presented to me!  Well done!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> You know, this demonstrates a point raised by one of EN World's early moderators that so many people still don't get.








_Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process._
-Me, futilely trying to salvage my Iron DM entry.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

But what I really want to say is:

...Nope, I'm saying it.


----------



## Cadence

They get to the phylogenetics of pizza at the end.


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> True enough. But such a nuanced position on a stupid pointless argument is no fun, Umbran.




Have you considered the possibility that this is mostly a comment about Brooklyn, rather than pizza?


----------



## payn

Honestly, the pizza thing around here feels like this at this point.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Where the #%! did you see any egg in that!?!?!




....on your face?

Because that's not a pizza.

...maybe if you put some ketchup on it? I've heard that ketchup makes everything better!


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Honestly, the pizza thing around here feels like this at this point.



I've heard of "anchovies" and "tuna" on pizza, but never "jumped shark".


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Honestly, the pizza thing around here feels like this at this point.




I really hope that was NYC Pizza... otherwise it should be a crime ;-)


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> I really hope that was NYC Pizza... otherwise it should be a crime ;-)



[dismissively] Albuquerque pizza. [/dismissively]


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> Have you considered the possibility that this is mostly a comment about Brooklyn, rather than pizza?


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> I've heard of "anchovies" and "tuna" on pizza, but never "jumped shark".



Jumped shark, nice. I had more like dead horse in mind.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Jumped shark, nice. I had more like dead horse in mind.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Jumped shark, nice. I had more like dead horse in mind.



I hear both are pretty good with pineapple.


----------



## Cadence

And so, Pizza demonstrates to us the weaknesses of the game system.  There should be some organized series of rolls we can make to determine the best.  Instead, because we're stuck with @Snarf Zagyg  as DM we're also stuck with only being able to find that paper-platish pizza is the best unless it has pineapple on it, because he get's to set the difficulty level arbitrarily where-ever he wants or to declare auto-failures.  Pizza 6e cannot get here soon enough!

(Do we all agree on the three pillars though?  Dough, Sauce, and Cheese?  )


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> And so, Pizza demonstrates to us the weaknesses of the game system.  There should be some organized series of rolls we can make to determine the best.  Instead, because we're stuck with @Snarf Zagyg  as DM we're also stuck with only being able to find that paper-platish pizza is the best unless it has pineapple on it, because he get's to set the difficulty level arbitrarily where-ever he wants or to declare auto-failures.  Pizza 6e cannot get here soon enough!
> 
> (Do we all agree on the three pillars though?  Dough, Sauce, and Cheese?  )




No.

Pizza is the ultimate FKR system.

You tell me why you think something is pizza.

And then I, the neutral, impartial, and all-knowing referee, explain to you the nature of your so-called pizza within the game-world.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> No.
> 
> Pizza is the ultimate FKR system.
> 
> You tell me why you think something is pizza.
> 
> And then I, the neutral, impartial, and all-knowing referee, explain to you the nature of your so-called pizza within the game-world.




I didn't find much on FKR and Pizza.  But this feels... bad...


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> I didn't find much on FKR and Pizza.  But this feels... bad...
> 
> View attachment 152930



Accurate to life simulationism.


----------



## Cadence

I suppose a follow-up to SZ's which race is which pizza thread, about which edition was which pizza (Neapolitan, Chicago Deep Dish, New York, Detroit, California, Sicilian, and Calzone   vs.  OD&D, B/X, 1e, 2e, 3/3.5e, 4e, 5e) would end up being a double edition war death battle, even if it was a + thread?


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> I didn't find much on FKR and Pizza.  But this feels... bad...
> 
> View attachment 152930



Welp, at least that settles the old _"What are hit points?"_ debate. 
Based on this, it's now pretty clear that "hit points" represent "bad breath."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I suppose a follow-up to SZ's which race is which pizza thread, about which edition was which pizza (Neapolitan, Chicago Deep Dish, New York, Detroit, California, Sicilian, and Calzone   vs.  OD&D, B/X, 1e, 2e, 3/3.5e, 4e, 5e) would end up being a double edition war death battle, even if it was a + thread?




That would be a scorched-earth, take no survivors, thread lock in under three pages.

Now, why don't you throw in, "And the Warlord is which topping?" for bonus credit?

Or, for that matter, get a royal donnybrook going with a whole, "Toppings matter" or "It doesn't really matter what toppings are on a pizza" thread ....


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> I suppose a follow-up to SZ's which race is which pizza thread, about which edition was which pizza (Neapolitan, Chicago Deep Dish, New York, Detroit, California, Sicilian, and Calzone   vs.  OD&D, B/X, 1e, 2e, 3/3.5e, 4e, 5e) would end up being a double edition war death battle, even if it was a + thread?



Tentatively...

OD&D is Neapolitan. The spare and simple but delicious original.  Before fancy elaborations.
Basic/Expert D&D is New York pizza.  The standard.  The classic. Simple and excellent, albeit sometimes you want something more complex.
AD&D is California, Detroit, and Sicilian.  Gilding the lily a bit here, and sometimes screwing up the essentials.
3.x is Calzone. Same core ingredients but now wandering a bit afield in shape, form and intent.
4E is Chicago.  Wonderful but some folks claim it's not D&D/Pizza.
5E is a blend of NY, CA, and Sicilian. Paring back from some of the excesses of AD&D, but still drawing back closer to the original recipe compared to the experimentation of 3.x & 4E.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That would be a scorched-earth, take no survivors, thread lock in under three pages.




So, I should start it?



Snarf Zagyg said:


> Now, why don't you throw in, "And the Warlord is which topping?" for bonus credit?




What if Warlords and Psionicists were allowed... but only as halflings and gnomes, with preset ASIs, and they had to like pineapple?



Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or, for that matter, get a royal donnybrook going with a whole, "Toppings matter" or "It doesn't really matter what toppings are on a pizza" thread ....




90% of Pizza is in the <pick one, cheese, crust, sauce> ?


----------



## J.Quondam

_"Do you top your pizzas in the open? Discuss Fight!"_


----------



## Cadence

Mannahnin said:


> Tentatively...
> 
> OD&D is Neapolitan. The spare and simple but delicious original.  Before fancy elaborations.
> Basic/Expert D&D is New York pizza.  The standard.  The classic. Simple and excellent, albeit sometimes you want something more complex.
> AD&D is California, Detroit, and Sicilian.  Gilding the lily a bit here, and sometimes screwing up the essentials.
> 3.x is Calzone. Same core ingredients but now wandering a bit afield in shape, form and intent.
> 4E is Chicago.  Wonderful but some folks claim it's not D&D/Pizza.
> 5E is a blend of NY, CA, and Sicilian. Paring back from some of the excesses of AD&D, but still drawing back closer to the original recipe compared to the experimentation of 3.x & 4E.




I think I would definitely  switch your 3 and 4, types (but not explanation) but otherwise looks solid.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> _"Do you top your pizzas in the open? Discuss Fight!"_




I enjoy my pizzas like I enjoy wandering around town.

_Naked._


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I enjoy my pizzas like I enjoy wandering around town.
> 
> _Naked._



...and accompanied by a fine alcoholic beverage.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I enjoy my pizzas like I enjoy wandering around town.
> 
> _Naked._



The town guard needs to know: Is that a Charisma check or Constitution check to resist?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> So, I should start it?
> 
> 
> 
> What if Warlords and Psionicists were allowed... but only as halflings and gnomes, with preset ASIs, and they had to like pineapple?
> 
> 
> 
> 90% of Pizza is in the <pick one, cheese, crust, sauce> ?



How about, "do you care about your pizza's alignment? Can pizza have a code?"


----------



## Ryujin

How pizza got a guy perpetually uninvited to gaming night:

The six of us started discussing what we wanted on a pizza. Guy #6 wanders off, at one point, and orders without telling us. He orders a medium (6 slice) pizza from his favourite fancy place, then tells us all to pay up, without telling us the size of the pizza. Six healthy 30-something gamers aren't going to get by with a single piece each, so we ordered two large pizzas from an OK chain place. Of course he was out, because he had already eaten. The two large pizzas cost roughly the same as the one medium. Haven't seen that guy in more than 20 years now and no, it wasn't even his house.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> How about, "do you care about your pizza's alignment? Can pizza have a code?"




A. If your pizza is topped with Orc sausage, does it always have the same alignment regardless of what other toppings are on the pizza?

B. If your pizza if topped with Orc sausage, are you evil if you eat it, or evil if you don't eat it?

C. What if your pizza is topped with Orc ... VEAL?


----------



## Asisreo

At this point, I can recognize if a certain poster has posted without looking at their names based on the amounts of emotes they get lol.


----------



## Cadence

I kind of want videos of each poster in < thread X > actually doing  < Y  >.  Because I have the impression that a bunch of them would be sitting there with eyes rolling and looks of disgust while they did it.  Seeing that they weren't would help me take the whole thing more seriously.


----------



## payn

Ok, so I know I was downvoting Poutine the other day, but actual folks are protesting a French restaurant in Quebec because of it. These folks think that Poutine was named after Putin. You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I enjoy my pizzas like I enjoy wandering around town.
> 
> _Naked._






Mannahnin said:


> ...and accompanied by a fine alcoholic beverage.




 I am now permanently implanting the image of Snarf walking down the street naked pulling a large wooden cask in a little red wagon into your brains.

 You're welcome.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Ok, so I know I was downvoting Poutine the other day, but actual folks are protesting a French restaurant in Quebec because of it. These folks think that Poutine was named after Putin. You can't make this stuff up.



They should just rename them "freedom fries". That worked so well here in the US, once upon a time.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Ok, so I know I was downvoting Poutine the other day, but actual folks are protesting a French restaurant in Quebec because of it. These folks think that Poutine was named after Putin. You can make this stuff up.




_Could be worse ..._

If you're blue, and you don't know where to go to
Why don't you go where a dictator sits? Putin on the ritz


_No more buttery crackers for me._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> I am now permanently implanting the image of Snarf walking down the street naked pulling a large wooden cask in a little red wagon into your brains.
> 
> * You're welcome.*


----------



## Asisreo

payn said:


> Ok, so I know I was downvoting Poutine the other day, but actual folks are protesting a French restaurant in Quebec because of it. These folks think that Poutine was named after Putin. You can't make this stuff up.



I'm going to legally change my name to Bineabble Pleasa and run as a very aggressive politician. 

Why? No reason, just remember if taxes go up 50%, it was Bineabble Pleasa's fault.


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> Ok, so I know I was downvoting Poutine the other day, but actual folks are protesting a French restaurant in Quebec because of it. These folks think that Poutine was named after Putin. You can't make this stuff up.




 Actually, the issue was that in French-language spelling, the name Putin is pronounced like "Putain". Putain is a vulgar word, so in order to avoid an international incident, French-language papers refer to him as Mr. Poutine.
The restaurant that claims to have originally invented the dish known as poutine posted on Facebook that they were temporarily renaming it so as not to be confused with the Russian guy. Apparently, they received actual death threats for doing so, although I have no idea whether it was from pro-Russian folks or hardcore foodies.


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> Actually, the issue was that in French-language spelling, the name Putin is pronounced like "Putain". Putain is a vulgar word, so in order to avoid an international incident, French-language papers refer to him as Mr. Poutine.
> The restaurant that claims to have originally invented the dish known as poutine posted on Facebook that they were temporarily renaming it so as not to be confused with the Russian guy. Apparently, they received actual death threats for doing so, although I have no idea whether it was from pro-Russian folks or hardcore foodies.



Wow, still really sad I didnt know it went to death threat level, but honestly that's pretty low for the internets for some time now.


----------



## BookTenTiger

It is very frustrating that so many threads turn into the same arguments between the same people.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> They should just rename them "freedom fries". That worked so well here in the US, once upon a time.



Les Pommes Frit du Liberte!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Could be worse ..._
> 
> If you're blue, and you don't know where to go to
> Why don't you go where a dictator sits? Putin on the ritz
> 
> 
> _No more buttery crackers for me._



May the beef of a thousand Tacos curse you!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> May the beef of a thousand Tacos curse you!


----------



## darjr

Death threats. They suck a lot a lot. Luckily I’ve not gotten a lot and mostly by idiots.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> Death threats. They suck a lot a lot. Luckily I’ve not gotten a lot and mostly by idiots.



That's always weird. I haven't had one of those in more than a decade and the last was, in true Canadian fashion, a passive-aggressive shot about how I was angering other people, who wouldn't take it kindly.


----------



## Mad_Jack

darjr said:


> Death threats. They suck a lot a lot. Luckily I’ve not gotten a lot and mostly by idiots.




 Most of the death threats I've gotten have been from nuns and teachers.


----------



## Mannahnin

Mad_Jack said:


> I am now permanently implanting the image of Snarf walking down the street naked pulling a large wooden cask in a little red wagon into your brains.
> 
> You're welcome.



Given that (in keeping with his avatar) I assume he looks like Aubrey Plaza, I have no objection.


----------



## Cadence

Mad_Jack said:


> I am now permanently implanting the image of Snarf walking down the street naked pulling a large wooden cask in a little red wagon into your brains.
> 
> You're welcome.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Touche. Well played, sir.



Mannahnin said:


> Given that (in keeping with his avatar) I assume he looks like Aubrey Plaza, I have no objection.




 It's a long-standing tradition on the Reaper Miniatures forum that you_ are_ your avatar pic - the forum is populated by a griffon, a purple kitty cat, a rainbow chaos mage, a goblin named Buglips, several wolves and a disembodied green skull in a stylish hat.


----------



## prabe

Oh, look, a request for help or suggestions has turned into a flame war before it got to the second page.

I'm shocked--shocked!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Oh, look, a request for help or suggestions has turned into a flame war before it got to the second page.
> 
> I'm shocked--shocked!




If you can't be a part of the solution, become a part of the problem.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> If you can't be a part of the solution, become a part of the problem.



But it takes so much energy making problems for myself that I don't have any to spare, to make problems for other people.


----------



## Cadence

"Seriously, what good is a game system if it doesn't give me a good chance of convincing Snarf they like pineapple pizza just by force of argument?"


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> "Seriously, what good is a game system if it doesn't give me a good chance of convincing Snarf they like pineapple pizza just by force of argument?"



"And why doesn't my character know I can't convince Snarf they like pineapple pizza?"


----------



## Mad_Jack

Right. Whatever kind of drugs that guy is on, he's either taking too many or not nearly enough...

If I don't post here again, just assume my brain exploded from trying to figure out what they just wrote.


----------



## trappedslider

Mad_Jack said:


> Right. Whatever kind of drugs that guy is on, he's either taking too many or not nearly enough...
> 
> If I don't post here again, just assume my brain exploded from trying to figure out what they just wrote.



Can't explode what you don't have


----------



## Gradine

Sometimes I have to remember that people who aren't trans women on the internet don't get regular death threats.


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> Can't explode what you don't have




Hey.  That's not cool.


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> Can't explode what you don't have




 Hey, I have a whole shelf full of brains neatly preserved in jars... I own them, therefore they're all mine.

Actually, as part of the process of becoming a disembodied green skull I had my brain removed and put in a jar. I just wish I hadn't put it on the same shelf as the pickles, jam and relish... Now I can't find the damn thing.


----------



## prabe

Mad_Jack said:


> Hey, I have a whole shelf full of brains neatly preserved in jars... I own them, therefore they're all mine.
> 
> Actually, as part of the process of becoming a disembodied green skull I had my brain removed and put in a jar. I just wish I hadn't put it on the same shelf as the pickles, jam and relish... Now I can't find the damn thing.



Could have been worse--you could have put it on the shelf with the other brains. I have to imagine that showing up to a family reunion with someone else's brain would just be embarrassing.


----------



## beancounter

I generally try to avoid responding to potentially political threads.


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> Can't explode what you don't have



Sadly, this isn’t remotely true.


----------



## darjr

Yup, I agree. Mine go with red wine.


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> Could have been worse--you could have put it on the shelf with the other brains. I have to imagine that showing up to a family reunion with someone else's brain would just be embarrassing.




"Abbie... someone.  Abbie Normal?"


----------



## darjr

It’s the only source I trust! Or the only one I’ve ever heard espouse on the subject.

You decide!


----------



## Mad_Jack

prabe said:


> Could have been worse--you could have put it on the shelf with the other brains. I have to imagine that showing up to a family reunion with someone else's brain would just be embarrassing.




 Most of the family reunions I've been to would have been much less embarrassing if a number of the people there had shown up with someone else's brain...


----------



## darjr

Mad_Jack said:


> Most of the family reunions I've been to would have been much less embarrassing if a number of the people there had shown up with someone else's brain...



Like, in a jar or paper bag? Less embarrassing?!

_ponders_
Yea. I can see that.


----------



## Mad_Jack

In their heads, definitely. In a jar or a bag, probably no less embarrassing, but definitely more interesting.


----------



## Cadence

"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.  But you better be carrying an expletive lot of supply if you're setting out to find Utopia."


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.  But you better be carrying an expletive lot of supply if you're setting out to find Utopia."



Only if your DM is so cruel and unbending that they make you track your resources.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> Most of the family reunions I've been to would have been much less embarrassing if a number of the people there had shown up with someone else's brain...




Another head hangs lowly
Turkey slowly taken
And your Uncle's n-word caused such silence
Who are we mistaken?

But you see, it's not me
It's my stupid family
At Thanksgiving, every Christmas, we are fighting
With their "jokes," and their quotes
And their QAnon, and their long racist rants
Now they're talking about Sandy Hook, and your cousin- she is crying

In their heads, in their heads
Zombie, zombie, zombie-ie-ie
What's in your family's heads, in their heads
Zombie, zombie, zombie-ie-ie, oh

Do, do, do, do
Do, do, do, do
Do, do, do, do
Do, do, do, do


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Another head hangs lowly
> Turkey slowly taken
> And your Uncle's n-word caused such silence
> Who are we mistaken?
> 
> But you see, it's not me
> It's my stupid family
> At Thanksgiving, every Christmas, we are fighting
> With their "jokes," and their quotes
> And their QAnon, and their long racist rants
> Now they're talking about Sandy Hook, and your cousin- she is crying
> 
> In their heads, in their heads
> Zombie, zombie, zombie-ie-ie
> What's in your family's heads, in their heads
> Zombie, zombie, zombie-ie-ie, oh
> 
> Do, do, do, do
> Do, do, do, do
> Do, do, do, do
> Do, do, do, do




This time I was ahead of you.  The song was already in my head before you posted this!!!  (Lucky roll? Or did I level up?).


----------



## Cadence

And elsewhere, I missed my chance to just walk away from the keyboard.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> This time I was ahead of you.  The song was already in my head before you posted this!!!  (Lucky roll? Or did I level up?).




....maybe it's just that the Cranberries, once heard, never leave your head?


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....maybe it's just that the Cranberries, once heard, never leave your head?



If only that wasn't also true of Hamster Dance.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> If only that wasn't also true of Hamster Dance.




The key to that is to replace it in your memory files with the Digital Underground.

Is it an improvement?







...._I make no guarantees._


----------



## prabe

holy crap i saw the flame war coming but i really didn't expect it would take that particular right-angle turn


----------



## Umbran

Jacob Lewis said:


> We need a new topic. Something with more substance and less accusations.




Deep dish pizza has more substance... but will not get us fewer accusations, I fear.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Deep dish pizza has more substance... but will not get us fewer accusations, I fear.



Well there's Deep Dish, and then there's a loaf of bread masquerading as pizza.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gone for 3 days and now 10 pages more to read? Oh wait, y'all are still in the same place as when I left! And that place's name was Albert Eins... I mean, _pizza_.



Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....maybe it's just that the Cranberries, once heard, never leave your head?



I even like the Bad Wolves homage. They were supposed to do a cover with Dolores O'Riordan, but she passed away the day they were supposed to do it, so they did it a little differently and made it an homage.


----------



## darjr

Learned a new rule term from my Son.

BKSS

Because Konami Says So


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> Learned a new rule term from my Son.
> 
> BKSS
> 
> Because Konami Says So



How is that applied?


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> Learned a new rule term from my Son.
> 
> BKSS
> 
> Because Konami Says So



"Why is the solution for all of your dungeon puzzles, Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A?"
"BKSS."


----------



## Parmandur

I have learned, through intensive and in-deprh research, that this is a Yu-Gi-Oh thing:

"*BKSS*, short for "Because Konami Said So", (Japanese: コナミがそう言いってるから, Konami ga Sou Itteru kara) is a reference to the often-conflicting nature of some rulings from Konami; if a ruling is given for a card that conflicts with those of other cards with functionally identical effects, or with what is stated in the card's effect itself, Judges and players have to follow the ruling, despite the conflicts, because Konami dictated that that is how the card should be played. In simpler terms, if a card has a ruling that contradicts those of other, similar cards, or its own effects, you have to follow them:
*"Because Konami Said So."*


----------



## trappedslider

And i thought MTG was complicated...


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> Well there's Deep Dish, and then there's a loaf of bread masquerading as pizza.




And let's not forget this _casserole_ masquerading as a pizza:





(An exceedingly delicious casserole, one which I would devour in an instant, but a casserole nevertheless.)


----------



## trappedslider

maybe pizza should be it's own thread at this point?


----------



## payn

Oh, for a moment I thought the thread title was "why has none of _your_ wisdom caught on?"


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> maybe pizza should be it's own thread at this point?



It already is.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> It already is.




_What we cannot speak about in other threads we must pass over in … pizza. _
-Ludwig Wittgenstein, hungrily.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> It already is.



It's several, actually.  There's the "if D&D races were pizza toppings" thread, and there's the "which pizza topping would the character classes be" thread, and there's my own "vote for your three favorite pizza toppings" thread...


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> maybe pizza should be it's own thread at this point?



or at least a "I didn't comment in that _other_ pizza thread" thread.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> It's several, actually.  There's the "if D&D races were pizza toppings" thread, and there's the "which pizza topping would the character classes be" thread, and there's my own "vote for your three favorite pizza toppings" thread...



This is a pizza forum, right? Sometimes we discuss what we play at out pizza and booze parties.

Or am I just confused?


----------



## trappedslider

Parmandur said:


> This is a pizza forum, right? Sometimes we discuss what we play at out pizza and booze parties.
> 
> Or am I just confused?



we all confused here


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> maybe pizza should be it's own thread at this point?




It should be its own forum at this point.




trappedslider said:


> we all confused here




 No, I'm Mad.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> This is a pizza forum, right? Sometimes we discuss what we play at out pizza and booze parties.
> 
> Or am I just confused?



Nah, you're fine.  Some people are just tired of seeing the same handful of people posting the same comments in the same threads, and we're running out of ways to express it.  So we've turned to satire!   "Pizza" and "pizza toppings" are ENWorld shorthand for any number of dead horses that are getting beaten, such as alignment, orcs, and NuTSR.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> And let's not forget this _casserole_ masquerading as a pizza:
> (An exceedingly delicious casserole, one which I would devour in an instant, but a casserole nevertheless.)




I'm going to disagree.  Casseroles do not generally have crusts.  Whether or not you wish to categorize it as a pizza, it is, in fact, still a pie.


----------



## Gradine

My partner played through Fallout 4 recently and she'd get so angry every time she couldn't scrap something she thought she should be able to. I started saying "Todd says no" every time it happened.

Now every time she says "Why not?" or "Why can't I...?" for any reason I automatically answer "Todd says no."


----------



## Thunderfoot

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Truly.
> 
> A lesson passed down from a true master pizza chef to all apprentices is that even the mere presence of a pineapple within 50 feet of the oven used to cook a pizza renders all future pizzas rancid and tainted; the only proper recourse is to either get a Sicilian priest to exorcise it, or to sell it to Canada.



Or California.  They believe pizza is more of a state of mind than a collection of toppings....heathen hippies...  sheesh


----------



## Thunderfoot

'Chicago style' pizza is just more proof that the people that live on the other end of my state are weird... Proud Illinoisian; NYC hand tossed pie only  period


----------



## Thunderfoot

Mad_Jack said:


> I am now permanently implanting the image of Snarf walking down the street naked pulling a large wooden cask in a little red wagon into your brains.
> 
> You're welcome.



Pics or it didn't happen....


----------



## Maxperson

Thunderfoot said:


> Or California.  They believe pizza is more of a state of mind than a collection of toppings....heathen hippies...  sheesh



California pizza is not about the pineapple.  California is about the gourmet toe cheese and yak salami pizza.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Maxperson said:


> California pizza is not about the pineapple.  California is about the gourmet toe cheese and yak salami pizza.



That too, or any other substance that would be better used as scenery in a movie rather than actual food.


----------



## darjr

What? NuTSR is all I got. It’s all. I. Got!


----------



## darjr

Oh. And my abs.

There in here somewhere!


----------



## el-remmen

prabe said:


> Oh, look, a request for help or suggestions has turned into a flame war before it got to the second page.
> 
> I'm shocked--shocked!




Pretty sure you are referring to the thread that made me react with frustration before the pineapple apple pen. . i mean pineapple pizza kerfuffle really got going.


----------



## el-remmen




----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


>


----------



## darjr

I KNEW there was a reason I dislike pineapple pizza!


----------



## prabe

I'm glad I read all of that post before posting an unnecessary post to it. I'd have hated to push that poster's buttons in that specific way.


----------



## el-remmen

One of my favorite pizzas has ham, pineapple, bacon, and red onion. So so good.


----------



## J.Quondam

Found myself in an awkward position last night, with a choice of two pizzas: "Hawaiian" which included pineapple, and another that claimed to be "Philly Cheese Steak". 

In this case, the pineapple pizza was _by far_ the lesser of two evils.


----------



## el-remmen

Can we at least all agree that the real crime is eating pizza with a knife and fork?

NYC's last mayor was a real piece of work, but what really turned New Yorkers against him was early on when he was filmed eating pizza with utensils.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Found myself in an awkward position last night, with a choice of two pizzas: "Hawaiian" which included pineapple, and another that claimed to be "Philly Cheese Steak".
> 
> In this case, the pineapple pizza was _by far_ the lesser of two evils.




Incorrect.

You were, in fact, choosing between the evil of two lessers.


_ETA- Of course the place with the Hawaiian pizza ALSO has the Cheesesteak pizza, because they were too cheap to pay for an exorcism. _


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> Can we at least all agree that the real crime is eating pizza with a knife and fork?
> 
> NYC's last mayor was a real piece of work, but what really turned New Yorkers against him was early on when he was filmed eating pizza with utensils.



Or ketchup.  I remember a different, also unpopular, politician losing points with his base when they learned that he eats steak with ketchup on it.  (He also had it cooked well-done, which is also a food crime.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Or ketchup.  I remember a different, also unpopular, politician losing points with his base when they learned that he eats steak with ketchup on it.  (He also had it cooked well-done, which is also a food crime.)




In fairness (not that I would offer any fairness to this particular person), I can't argue against putting ketchup on to a well-done steak in order to cover up the taste of the shoe-leather that has been left over after you MURDERED this wonderful piece of meat.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Or ketchup.  I remember a different, also unpopular, politician losing points with his base when they learned that he eats steak with ketchup on it.  (He also had it cooked well-done, which is also a food crime.)



Those fighting words down at the Golden Corral.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In fairness (not that I would offer any fairness to this particular person), I can't argue against putting ketchup on to a well-done steak in order to cover up the taste of the shoe-leather that has been left over after you MURDERED this wonderful piece of meat.



I used to eat my steak so desecrated when I was a little kid, but I think I graduated from ketchup to Worcestershire sauce, at least, by the age of 10 or 11.  And learned to appreciate properly cooked steak sometime in adolescence.


----------



## CleverNickName

I don't eat steak very often, usually only on my birthday or such.  
But when I do, I'm a medium-rare ribeye, salt-and-pepper-only kind of guy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I don't eat steak very often, usually only on my birthday or such.
> But when I do, I'm a medium-rare ribeye, salt-and-pepper-only kind of guy.




The amount of heat applied to a steak is similar to the amount of vermouth you put in a martini.

However much ... is too much.


----------



## darjr

Fear chains!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The amount of heat applied to a steak is similar to the amount of vermouth you put in a martini.
> 
> However much ... is too much.



_ “I’d like a dry martini, Mr. Quoc. A very dry martini. A very dry, arid, barren, desiccated, veritable dustbowl of a martini. I want a martini that could be declared a disaster area. Mix me just such a martini.”_

- Hawkeye Pierce


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> I don't eat steak very often, usually only on my birthday or such.
> But when I do, I'm a medium-rare ribeye, salt-and-pepper-only kind of guy.




(some language)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> _ “I’d like a dry martini, Mr. Quoc. A very dry martini. A very dry, arid, barren, desiccated, veritable dustbowl of a martini. I want a martini that could be declared a disaster area. Mix me just such a martini.”_
> 
> - Hawkeye Pierce




A Roman legionary walks into a bar and says to the bartender, "I would like a martinus."

The bartender replies, "Don't you mean a martini?"

The legionary snaps back, "If I wanted more than one, I would have said so."


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> A Roman legionary walks into a bar and says to the bartender, "I would like a martinus."
> 
> The bartender replies, "Don't you mean a martini?"
> 
> The legionary snaps back, "If I wanted more than one, I would have said so."



_A perfect martini should be made by filling a glass with gin then waving it in the general direction of Italy._

*- Noel Coward*


----------



## payn

Mannahnin said:


> (some language)



Like a reenactment of recent cabin trip.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> _A perfect martini should be made by filling a glass with gin then waving it in the general direction of Italy._
> 
> *- Noel Coward*




Two young German tourists walk into a swanky American bar in Brooklyn.

They sidle up to the bar and say, "May we have two Martinis, bitte?"

The bartender replied, "Dry?"

The Germans, incensed, shout back, "NEIN! ZWEI!!!!"


----------



## el-remmen

Martinis are gross.

(this thread is the only place I allow myself to yuck other people's yum - well, except when it comes to Chicago "pizza" - I haven't figured out self-discipline on that one yet   )


----------



## CleverNickName

A thousand years ago when I was a bartender, there was a guy who would come in and order his martinis "very very_ very very very VERY _dry."  He was an infamously bad tipper who would watch you like a hawk, and complain loudly if you so much as touched the bottle of vermouth while making his cocktail.  So when it was eventually my turn to make his drink, I just served him pure gin in a martini glass.  He told me that it was the best "martini" he had ever had, and tipped me $5.  

I just thanked him and smiled.  It's not a martini, it's not even a cocktail, but for $5 I'll let you call it anything you like.


----------



## Mannahnin

el-remmen said:


> Martinis are gross.
> 
> (this thread is the only place I allow myself to yuck other people's yum - well, except when it comes to Chicago "pizza" - I haven't figured out self-discipline on that one yet   )



I used to dislike gin, but I guess my hatred for others crossed a threshold some years back.

People who don't like Chicago stuffed style pizza, well, they're missing out like I used to on gin!

(from XKCD)


----------



## prabe

oh look wotc are putting out another setting i have negative interest in, as in i do not want it

i am happy for the people who want it, but it's fifty dollars i will feel no need to spend


----------



## el-remmen

Honestly, I dropped hard liquor like 15 years ago and haven't looked back.

I like a cold beer or a nice glass of good champagne - and that's all the alcohol I drink.


----------



## payn

Champagne is one thing I'll always pass on. Even the good stuff is not satisfying.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Champagne is one thing I'll always pass on. Even the good stuff is not satisfying.



I like Port, because I like grape juice and booze.


----------



## Mannahnin

At a family dinner with myself, my brother, and my mother (like last night) we usually go through two bottles of cheap-ish sparkling wine.  Proper champagne is a luxury I rarely afford myself, but I do like the bubbly.

I used to be really into single malts, and I still have seven or eight different bottles at home, but I don't sip much of that anymore.  

During the pandemic I got more into making mixed drinks at home, and for those I use a lot of gin and rye, mezcal, and occasionally dark (not spiced) or silver rums.  Tequila every once in a while, and vodka almost never.


----------



## CleverNickName

Champagne is to wine, as Nirvana is to music.
Very good, but very overrated.

Yeah, I said what I said.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> I like Port, because I like grape juice and booze.



Good man. Port is fantastic.


----------



## J.Quondam

I _really_ miss beer and wine both, but they just don't sit well anymore. On the very rare occasions I drink anymore, it's almost always vodka. 
Preferably from a plastic bottle. 
Or baggie.


----------



## darjr

Fermented corn mash.

Burn it in my truck.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Champagne is to wine, as Nirvana is to music.
> Very good, but very overrated.
> 
> Yeah, I said what I said.




That's just, like, your OPINION, man.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> I _really_ miss beer and wine both, but they just don't sit well anymore. On the very rare occasions I drink anymore, it's almost always vodka.
> Preferably from a plastic bottle.
> Or baggie.



That... sounds like a new definition of hard times.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> I _really_ miss beer and wine both, but they just don't sit well anymore. On the very rare occasions I drink anymore, it's almost always vodka.
> Preferably from a plastic bottle.
> Or baggie.




I hear ya. Personally, I find that imbibing alcohol just take too long, nowadays. I mean, we have limited time on this earth ... and I only have one mouth!

So I just see a man about a horse. Sometimes, I'll take the edge off with some Bolivian marching powder. I call the combo the Chateau Marmont Special in honor of a certain Blues Brother.

You know, John Goodman.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Fermented corn mash.
> 
> Burn it in my truck.



'Muricah


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> That... sounds like a new definition of hard times.



Tough times breeds innovation. The vodka bags double as butt implants in my saggy aging years. Cheaper than plastic surgery, and with a bit of tubing, they're easily available for an on-demand "tactical tipple" at family gatherings.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Tough times breeds innovation. The vodka bags double as butt implants in my saggy aging years. Cheaper than plastic surgery, and with a bit of tubing, they're easily available for an on-demand "tactical tipple" at family gatherings.



THERE IS NOTHING LIKE FAMILY TO MAKE ONE APPRECIATE TACTICS


----------



## Mad_Jack

prabe said:


> THERE IS NOTHING LIKE FAMILY TO MAKE ONE APPRECIATE TACTICS




 My mom's side of the family tends to make me appreciate the sheer simplicity of a brick to the side of the head...


----------



## darjr

Brains in paper bags.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In fairness (not that I would offer any fairness to this particular person), I can't argue against putting ketchup on to a well-done steak in order to cover up the taste of the shoe-leather that has been left over after you MURDERED this wonderful piece of meat.




It was almost certainly dead before they started cooking it.


----------



## darjr

Ah, the “I’m always in the right” argument.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Champagne is to wine, as Nirvana is to music.
> Very good, but very overrated.
> 
> Yeah, I said what I said.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Soooo... backgrounds aren't good enough anymore?


----------



## payn

I shouldn't have gotten involved.


----------



## trappedslider

I almost showed off an insane amount of knowledge on a limited topic, but I held back.


----------



## Thunderfoot

CleverNickName said:


> Champagne is to wine, as Nirvana is to music.
> Very good, but very overrated.
> 
> Yeah, I said what I said.



Yeah that's so objective, calling Nirvana music.

Yeah, I said THAT.


----------



## Umbran

I am considering double dog daring this thread to go a week without engaging in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Thunderfoot said:


> Yeah that's so objective, calling Nirvana music.
> 
> Yeah, I said THAT.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> I am considering double dog daring this thread to go a week without engaging in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like.




But are people engaging in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like, or are people cynically pretending to engage in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like?

Which makes it ... well, endearingly sincere? 

Or maybe there's a third, deeper layer, like a pie, and the beneath the surface cynical practice, and underneath layer of cynical pretending to engage in a cynical practice, people are actually really engaged in cynical practices?

What if, instead of a wink, it's just an EYE TREMOR????


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> But are people engaging in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like, or are people cynically pretending to engage in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like?
> 
> Which makes it ... well, endearingly sincere?




I don't believe the power of the double-negative works in that way.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> I don't believe the power of the double-negative works in that way.




Yeah, yeah.

It's the power of double positive.


----------



## CleverNickName

For the record, I'm not hating on Nirvana.  I said they were "very good."  Overrated, yes, but that's  not the same as saying they're _bad._

Sheesh.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> I am considering double dog daring this thread to go a week without engaging in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like.



Seriously? Double dog dares are so meh.  Triple all the way.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> For the record, I'm not hating on Nirvana.  I said they were "very good."  Overrated, yes, but that's  not the same as saying they're _bad._
> 
> Sheesh.



So if Nirvana were a version of D&D it would be?


----------



## Asisreo

Cadence said:


> So if Nirvana were a version of D&D it would be?



Season 8 (I'm just kidding)


----------



## Gradine

Umbran said:


> I am considering double dog daring this thread to go a week without engaging in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like.



Can't speak for the rest but I'll take that side bet


----------



## RealAlHazred

I feel like EN World needs to create a shrine to Saint Godwin. His Law is on view everywhere you look! It's a miracle!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Snarf Zagyg said:


> But are people engaging in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people like, or are people cynically pretending to engage in the cynical practice of tearing down stuff that other people <SNIP>



You, soooooo get me.


----------



## darjr

That’d be like a soft ban on half the posters!


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Seriously? Double dog dares are so meh.  Triple all the way.



No, no, the real way to go is the physical challenge.


----------



## Cadence

The song Baker Street just started playing in my head and I have no idea why.  What are you getting ready to post Snarf?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

I'm so happy. 
Because today I found my friends.
They're in my thread.


----------



## prabe

i am shocked (shocked i tell you) that people with different experience of players have different expectations of players


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Seriously? Double dog dares are so meh.  Triple all the way.




Please.  Decorum must be maintained.  One does not just stroll up and triple-dog-dare right off the bat.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> Please.  Decorum must be maintained.  One does not just stroll up and triple-dog-dare right off the bat.



Well, it is a slight breach of etiquette but, under some circumstances it is allowable.


----------



## el-remmen

A triple dog dare is still like less than half a cat dare.


----------



## darjr

Cat farts are the worst. 

The attitude they give you after is just insufferable!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Cat farts are the worst.
> 
> The attitude they give you after is just insufferable!




Catitude.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Catitude.



I’m in the process of adding cat doors to a few of our internal doors. This should be fun.


----------



## J.Quondam

_... drumroll..._
Ten-SHUN!
About-FACE!
Tails-UP!
Honored non-feline! On this day we present to you the "Roseate Anus of Friendship", catkind's highest award that can be bestowed upon a lesser two-legged being such as yourself. You may be appropriately thankful now, and give us food.


----------



## darjr

Well the dogs always seem interested.


----------



## Cadence

Oooh.  That was a well-crafted response.

I am hoping  _everyone_ has a mirror (or selfy mode camera) handy.


----------



## darjr

I’m not doing a cat butt selfie


----------



## RealAlHazred

My dog woke us up this morning by farting on the bed and then hopping onto the floor. _He_ doesn't want to smell it -- he knows it's bad!

Welp, I went and undid @Parmandur 's vote in a votey thread, I can shut down the Internet today. My work here is done. Tomorrow's a new votey day.

Also, triple-dog daring right off the bat is liable to lead to double-secret probation.


----------



## Thunderfoot

el-remmen said:


> A triple dog dare is still like less than half a cat dare.



Preach the Truth, brah!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Lets be honest....cat farts smell like whatever food they eat.  Dogs are only slightly more discerning than goats in their dietary choices. Their farts are akin to Military grade biological weapons.


----------



## payn

You people really know your sh@!


----------



## Umbran

Thunderfoot said:


> Dogs are only slightly more discerning than goats in their dietary choices.




Things my wife has had to surgically remove from the stomachs of dogs:  Linoleum.  Charcoal briquettes.  Wood.  Rocks.  Socks.  Clocks (well, okay, a wristwatch).  A deflated, but otherwise intact, soccer ball.

And, there have been a few things that needed to be removed non-surgically.  Those happen on what we might call, "Dog Butt Surprise Day".


----------



## J.Quondam

Thunderfoot said:


> Lets be honest....cat farts smell like whatever food they eat.  Dogs are only slightly more discerning than goats in their dietary choices. Their farts are akin to Military grade biological weapons.



My folks have a mutt, still less than a year old. She'll come into the room, fart audibly, then walk back out, stopping just long enough to look back coyly over her shoulder. 
She's quite the flirt.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> And, there have been a few things that needed to be removed non-surgically.  Those happen on what we might call, "Dog Butt Surprise Day".



Since we had to move my dog to prescription Urinary food, his farts have become noticeably worse, approaching Geneva Convention levels of toxicity.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

They say, "Nothing is worse than tearing down the things people enjoy for your own pleasure."

To which I reply, "You are wrong. There is something worse. Long conversations about dog farts. Soon you will be offering up the things you love for me to destroy. You know this to be true."


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> Things my wife has had to surgically remove from the stomachs of dogs: Linoleum. Charcoal briquettes. Wood. Rocks. Socks. Clocks (well, okay, a wristwatch). A deflated, but otherwise intact, soccer ball.




A friend of mine's dog was in for surgery to remove a squeaky toy he'd eaten. When he was back home and ostensibly recovering he continued to have signs that something was wrong. They brought him back. They found out he had managed to somehow get and eat a ball of surgical gloves while at the vet so they had to open him up again!


----------



## darjr

I’m so sorry!

Can we go back to talking about toxic food additives?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I’m so sorry!
> 
> Can we go back to talking about toxic food additives?




What else do you want to know about pineapples?


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Can we go back to talking about toxic food additives?



 You want to go back to talking about _pineapple_?


----------



## darjr

Do they give pets flatulence?


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Do they give pets flatulence?




I know it isn't _toxic_ to dogs or cats.  They shouldn't be eating large amounts of sweet stuff, though, so they probably shouldn't eat enough to make a difference.


----------



## CleverNickName

Just going to put this here....



			
				www.veterinarians.org said:
			
		

> In small quantities, raw pineapple is an excellent fruit snack for dogs. Canned pineapple, like most canned fruit, tends to have excessively high sugar levels due to the fruit syrup contained in the can. Dogs’ digestive systems are not designed to handle high levels of sugar, even naturally occurring sugar from fruit such as pineapple. For this reason, while small amounts of raw pineapple can be a tasty fruit snack for your dog, canned pineapple should be avoided.
> 
> So, can dogs eat pineapple?! Yes!


----------



## payn

Shortly after I started dating my ex-wife, I was watching her dog. I had a plate full of melon and the dog was just begging. I tossed him a big chunk which he immediately tried to swallow whole down his gullet like a duck. He started choking and it scared the hell out of me. Thought I was just about to kill her dog. Gotta chew your food dude!


----------



## darjr

Our dogs don’t like the inside of melons, but give them the rind and they go bonkers over it.


----------



## Thunderfoot

My cat prefers curry chicken.  Or anything with hot peppers.  I think my cat is an alien....


----------



## billd91

Has a new record been set for joining ENWorld/being banning on ENWorld?


----------



## South by Southwest

billd91 said:


> Has a new record been set for joining ENWorld/being banning on ENWorld?



Yeah, I saw that, too. He came in here like this place was Twitter or something.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Did you ever stop to consider _why _you want to be a part of the community? Or perhaps you've started to realize that membership in this group that is constantly bickering and turning hostile to one another over ideas and values that you don't always share is diminishing your passion for this kind of thing. I fear I am losing my way again.


----------



## billd91

Jacob Lewis said:


> Did you ever stop to consider _why _you want to be a part of the community? Or perhaps you've started to realize that membership in this group that is constantly bickering and turning hostile to one another over ideas and values that you don't always share is diminishing your passion for this kind of thing. I fear I am losing my way again.



Sure, every once in a while. Putting people on ignore when I’m fed up with them usually helps me. My list is longer than it used to be…


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> Sure, every once in a while. Putting people on ignore when I’m fed up with them usually helps me. My list is longer than it used to be…



I try not to use the Ignore feature too much.  Normally I just pull a Grandpa Simpson when someone starts showing their buttcheeks in a public forum:






And if they start calling me out directly, I usually go full Homer Simpson:





Only for real special cases like sealions and bigots, do I become Rocket Homer:





But for the most part, whenever I want to avoid someone's nonsense in a thread, I come here and talk smack about them while pretending to talk about pizza.





Anyway.  Did ya'll see that microwave pizza?  It's terrible and nobody really likes it, but there's one good thing about microwave pizza: it cooks fast.  It's completely done in just three posts minutes.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

billd91 said:


> Sure, every once in a while. Putting people on ignore when I’m fed up with them usually helps me. My list is longer than it used to be…



Thanks. That has been my strategy as well, usually when I notice a consistent pattern of negativity and obnoxiousness from some people.

Edit: I was overly harsh in some of my choices of words and expressions. Apologies if I offended anyone.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Has a new record been set for joining ENWorld/being banning on ENWorld?




No.  Even if we disregard spammers, or people who were previously banned and using alts (who we can sometimes get before a single post is made), there have been folks whose first post was so egregious that they had to be removed on that alone.


----------



## darjr

Aw Dangit!

You folks have all the fun. I missed it allz


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Aw Dangit!
> 
> You folks have all the fun. I missed it allz




There wasn't much of it.  They made three posts before they were expelled.

Edit: Correction, they made a total of five posts.  Two were isolated, three were a chain that got them the boot.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> There wasn't much of it.  They made three posts before they were expelled.



Oh? Bad wrong fun is it? I like what I like.


----------



## el-remmen

South by Southwest said:


> Yeah, I saw that, too. He came in here like this place was Twitter or something.



Aw. I missed it!


----------



## el-remmen

Just adding a grumble about a certain poster I had on ignore that I may need to put on ignore again.

No, it isn't @Snarf Zagyg


----------



## darjr

el-remmen said:


> Just adding a grumble about a certain poster I had on ignore that I may need to put on ignore again.
> 
> No, it isn't @Snarf Zagyg



There is a certain level of liberation knowing el-remmen will never see this.


----------



## Cadence

I love how discussions about Pepperoni Pizza always opens the door to talking about Burritos.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I love how discussions about Pepperoni Pizza always opens the door to talking about Burritos.



Nobody ever talks about enchiladas though...


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Nobody ever talks about enchiladas though...



I made enchiladas on Tuesday night - black bean, corn, and spinach enchiladas, to be more precise. They're delicious.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> I made enchiladas on Tuesday night - black bean, corn, and spinach enchiladas, to be more precise. They're delicious.



Meat, cheese, and veggies I like it all when it comes to enchiladas!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Just adding a grumble about a certain poster I had on ignore that I may need to put on ignore again.
> 
> No, it isn't @Snarf Zagyg


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> Anyway.  It's terrible and nobody really likes it, but there's one good thing about microwave pizza: it cooks fast.  It's completely done in just five posts minutes.




 Actually, I kind of like microwave pizza. I just consider it to be an entirely different animal than actual pizza. I like McD's burgers, and I like the burgers at a high-class steakhouse, but I like them both for different reasons.
Real pizza is food. Microwave pizza is junk food, and therefore falls under the same umbrella as other things like chips and ice cream - I'm not necessarily judging it by its quality. In fact, the lack of quality is often what makes it enjoyable - I eat them because I like the taste, regardless of whether or not they taste anything like the flavor they're supposed to be.
If I want to taste a real apple flavor, I'll eat an apple. But sometimes I want to taste that artificial flavor they call green apple. And that's why I eat candy.


----------



## payn

I dont even own a microwave.


----------



## darjr

Frozen pizza, the grocery isle kind.


----------



## payn

I do get the junk food thing though. I love Chips Ahoy red velvet cookies but I know they are probably a certain percentage of poison.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> I dont even own a microwave.




Yeah, the only reason we own a microwave is because the house we moved into had one built above the stove hood and removing it and getting a new one seemed like a pain in the ass. Before that, I never owned a microwave in any place I lived in as an adult past college days.


----------



## darjr

Poison is in the dosage


----------



## darjr

Chips ahoy in the microwave?


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> Chips ahoy in the microwave?



Hell no.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Yeah, the only reason we own a microwave is because the house we moved into had one built above the stove hood and removing it and getting a new one seemed like a pain in the ass. Before that, I never owned a microwave in any place I lived in as an adult past college days.




Is this the new, "I don't own a TV."

Did I miss the memo?

...._I missed the memo_.

Harumph. Yeah, well, I don't even use social media. I don't have time, with all the local culture I'm supporting. Like plays. And yogurt.

#humblebrag


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Is this the new, "I don't own a TV."
> 
> Did I miss the memo?
> 
> ...._I missed the memo_.
> 
> Harumph. Yeah, well, I don't even use social media. I don't have time, with all the local culture I'm supporting. Like plays. And yogurt.
> 
> #humblebrag



Doesnt feel like it. Nobody gives me any cool points for not having a microwave.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Doesnt feel like it. Nobody gives me any cool points for not having a microwave.




IM SORRY!!!!11 EYE KANT HEER U OVAR THE SOUND OF MY GINORMOUS BUILT-IN WOLF GAS RANGE!

IT'S POWERED BY THR33 SURPLUS SATURN ROCKETZ!!!!


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Hell no.



Ewww…. They fizz and then shrivel up.

Ooof and the smell!


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Is this the new, "I don't own a TV."




As if those people don't own a laptop, tablet, or smart phone . . . you know the things people use as TVs at least half the time these days anyway.

But no. . . I don't think it is. I just generally find most food re-heated in a microwave to have a weird flavor, texture, or uneven heating. I like to warm up leftovers on the stove. I mostly use the microwave to do things like soften butter or warm the cats' food when I forget to get it out of the fridge to come to room temp.


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> Ewww…. They fizz and then shrivel up.
> 
> Ooof and the smell!



Thats the poison boiling off.


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Thats the poison boiling off.



Nope, can confirm that’s not true.


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> Nope, can confirm that’s not true.



Must be potent poison that can resist heat.


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Must be potent poison that can resist heat.



Tastes like pineapple


----------



## Aeson

Don't own a microwave? Why do you hate America?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Well this thread seems to have lost purpose.


----------



## Umbran

Jacob Lewis said:


> Well this thread seems to have lost purpose.




Lost.  Found.  Topic drift happens.


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> Don't own a microwave? Why do you hate America?



I dont hate America because of _Kraft singles, crocs, truck nuts, speaking "American", American flag apparel, big mouth billy bass, big macs with fish-o-filet inserted and called "surf and turf", the crosandwhich, reality TV, country songs written off bumper sticker slogans like "no shirt no shoes no problem"..._

No, I hate America because nobody, I mean nobody, puts ketchup on a god damn hotdog.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Aeson said:


> Don't own a microwave? Why do you hate America?



You talk about somebody hating America, you gotta go full Groucho Marx. "So tell me, when did you start hating America?"


----------



## payn

Lotta off topic logic gotcha games going around lately.


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> No, I hate America because nobody, I mean nobody, puts ketchup on a god damn hotdog.



I put ketchup on hotdogs.


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> I put ketchup on hotdogs.



Stay clear of Callahan.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Lotta off topic logic gotcha games going around lately.



"Following the topic is all fine and good, but the _most important thing_ is that everyone sees how I am right and correct."


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> "Following the topic is all fine and good, but the _most important thing_ is that everyone sees how I am right and correct."



..."now with piles of snark!"


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> I put ketchup on hotdogs.



Ketchup AND mustard on hot dogs. Brown mustard, sauerkraut, and black olives for sausage on a bun.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Ketchup AND mustard on hot dogs. Brown mustard, sauerkraut, and black olives for sausage on a bun.



Black olives? Not heard that one. Haven't rocked it, so cant knock it.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Black olives? Not heard that one. Haven't rocked it, so cant knock it.



Never the green olives. That's just wrong.


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> Stay clear of Callahan.



Who, what, where is Callahan?


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> Who, what, where is Callahan?


----------



## CleverNickName

I'm a fan of hot dogs, I won't lie.  How many "styles" of hot dogs are there?  LOTS!
(Tag your favorite.)





My favorite is either the New York, Chicago, or Coney, depending on my mood.  But I really want to try the Argentina.


----------



## el-remmen

Pardon me, I just need to come into this thread and try to sound really smart while entirely missing the point and casting doubt on my ability to read.


----------



## payn

The bagel dog is delicious!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> Don't own a microwave? Why do you hate America?




Microwave popcorn, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of microwave buttered popcorn in the morning. You know, one time I got the special fancy extra-buttered microwave popcorn and tossed it in there for three ... four minutes. When it was all over, I walked up and opened the bag. I didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' unpopped kernel.

The smell, you know that artificial butter smell? The whole house. Smelled like... victory.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Microwave popcorn, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of microwave buttered popcorn in the morning. You know, one time I got the special fancy extra-buttered microwave popcorn and tossed it in there for three ... four minutes. When it was all over, I walked up and opened the bag. I didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' unpopped kernel.
> 
> The smell, you know that artificial butter smell? The whole house. Smelled like... victory.



Until some joker leaves it in too long and burns it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Just like napalm though, inhaling microwave popcorn vapor is very harmful, despite people loving its smell in the morning.


----------



## payn

Anybody see that movie _Frequency_? These days I feel like a poster or two are still in 1985 and somehow we are posting to each other on EN world.


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> I'm a fan of hot dogs, I won't lie.  How many "styles" of hot dogs are there?  LOTS!
> (Tag your favorite.)
> View attachment 153157
> 
> My favorite is either the New York, Chicago, or Coney, depending on my mood.  But I really want to try the Argentina.



I'm deeply offended by this description of a Brazillian hot dog. Everything and anything can go in to a brazillian hot dog (including mashed potatoes)


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> "Following the topic is all fine and good, but the _most important thing_ is that everyone sees how I am right and correct."



This is The Way.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> Anybody see that movie _Frequency_? These days I feel like a poster or two are still in 1985 and somehow we are posting to each other on EN world.



As a fan of plausible time-travel movies, thank you for reminding me about this absolute trash movie. I will now need to watch _Primer_ a few times as brain-bleach.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Anybody see that movie _Frequency_? These days I feel like a poster or two are still in 1985 and somehow we are posting to each other on EN world.




I am resentful of this post for two reasons:

1. I will never forgive _Frequency _for making the 1969 World Series a central aspect of a film with sci-fi elements and still end up as schlock (and I say this as someone with an admitted soft spot for all father/son melodrama).

2. I am posting from 1994, thank you very much!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Just like napalm though, inhaling microwave popcorn vapor is very harmful, despite people loving its smell in the morning.


----------



## Cadence

It feels like I should be, but I'm not used to threads so completely losing their way in two distinct ways simultaneously.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> It feels like I should be, but I'm not used to threads so completely losing their way in two distinct ways simultaneously.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Microwave popcorn, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of microwave buttered popcorn in the morning. You know, one time I got the special fancy extra-buttered microwave popcorn and tossed it in there for three ... four minutes. When it was all over, I walked up and opened the bag. I didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' unpopped kernel.
> 
> The smell, you know that artificial butter smell? The whole house. Smelled like... victory.



Everything has its limits.









						Colorado Man Wins $7 Million in ‘Popcorn Lung’ Lawsuit | TIME.com
					

He's got the popcorn lung, pops. It's not very well ventilated down there



					newsfeed.time.com


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> As a fan of plausible time-travel movies, thank you for reminding me about this absolute trash movie. I will now need to watch _Primer_ a few times as brain-bleach.



Then I'm guessing you don't want to know there's a sequel? Forget I said anything.


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> "Following the topic is all fine and good, but the _most important thing_ is that everyone sees how I am right and correct."



"I'm sorry, but the card says "Moops".



CleverNickName said:


> I'm a fan of hot dogs, I won't lie.  How many "styles" of hot dogs are there?  LOTS!
> (Tag your favorite.)
> 
> 
> My favorite is either the New York, Chicago, or Coney, depending on my mood.  But I really want to try the Argentina.



Most of these look good, aside from all the disgusting abominations with dairy products on them.

Dodger-style or Italian tend to be my baseline, though I'll take a Chicago dog any time I can get it.


----------



## darjr

The ONLY way I was ever going to win was if he NEVER KNEW!

Now I’m doomed.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> Then I'm guessing you don't want to know there's a sequel? Forget I said anything.



I have seen both the first one and the sequel, and the CW TV series. And a subtitled South Korean adaptation, which was called _Signal_. And that's why I need the brain-bleach!


----------



## darjr

Ope!

Mods, have I said thank you lately? Yes, even when I get my hands slapped.


----------



## darjr

As a last ditch attempt I’d like to note I did capitalize the word The!


----------



## el-remmen

Jacob Lewis said:


> Did you ever stop to consider _why _you want to be a part of the community?




This almost makes me want to start a poll thread with this as the main question . . _almost. . . _except it'd probably make my brain explode, make the mods' jobs harder, and have to be in the Meta forum which means no one would see it. 

But it might be a fun thought exercise in this thread for grousing to imagine what the poll choices might be.


----------



## darjr

el-remmen said:


> This almost makes me want to start a poll thread with this as the main question . . _almost. . . _except it'd probably make my brain explode, make the mods' jobs harder, and have to be in the Meta forum which means no one would see it.
> 
> But it might be a fun thought exercise in this thread for grousing to imagine what the poll choices might be.



Do it on Twitter. Should be fine. Fine.


----------



## Cadence

That's a heck of an understatement


----------



## Umbran

Bolares said:


> I'm deeply offended by this description of a Brazillian hot dog. Everything and anything can go in to a brazillian hot dog (including mashed potatoes)




Yeah, well the art on that chart looks a bit like it is from the Gallery of Regrettable Foods, so I didn't have much hope for accuracy.

Like, with the "Montreal", in which they mention a "New England-style bun" while clearly not knowing what that is.  :/


----------



## Gradine

I would definitely try most of them hot dogs except for the ones with the soapweed. The Coney is definitely the purest one. Potato Dog is basically the best simple dog with potato wedges unnecessarily added to it.

e: That said, not a single of one of these has any kind of relish on it, so fail


----------



## Bolares

I'd eat any of them


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> I would definitely try most of them hot dogs except for the ones with the soapweed. The Coney is definitely the purest one. Potato Dog is basically the best simple dog with potato wedges unnecessarily added to it.
> 
> e: That said, not a single of one of these has any kind of relish on it, so fail



Chicago canonically has sweet relish, doesn't it?

(Edit: I must have misunderstood, some others in the picture do too).


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Chicago canonically has sweet relish, doesn't it?



Yeah, it is on the list, I just missed it.


----------



## Cadence

Are online boards a place of catharsis, where DMs get rid of all of their <insert bad words> so that their players can stand to be in the same room with them?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Are online boards a place of catharsis, where DMs get rid of all of their <insert bad words> so that their players can stand to be in the same room with them?



Include some of the Discords I've poked around at, and this is ...distressingly plausible.

I don't think it's the *only* use people get out of these places, mind; but it's clear there are some for whom it's the primary application.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Are online boards a place of catharsis, where DMs get rid of all of their <insert bad words> so that their players can stand to be in the same room with them?



And here I've just been screaming my bad words into the Void.


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> e: That said, not a single of one of these has any kind of relish on it, so fail




Three of them have relish - Sonora, Dodger, and Chicago.


----------



## darjr

I’m just going to eat a hot dog. Plain,  no bun.

With Pineapple


----------



## Gradine

Umbran said:


> Three of them have relish - Sonora, Dodger, and Chicago.



Well I can't read then.

Also the Dodger would be perfect if it didn't have ketchup on it.


----------



## billd91

darjr said:


> I’m just going to eat a hot dog. Plain,  no bun.
> 
> With Pineapple



You *MONSTER*!


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> Also the Dodger would be perfect if it didn't have ketchup on it.



Agreed.


----------



## darjr

billd91 said:


> You *MONSTER*!



I hate myself.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> You *MONSTER*!




No.  Just a Discordian.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> No.  Just a Discordian.



I heard discord was down. So.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I hate myself.




I hate myself.

But projection is my defense mechanism.

So I hate everyone else.

Q.
E.
To the D.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I hate myself.
> 
> But projection is my defense mechanism.
> 
> So I hate everyone else.
> 
> Q.
> E.
> To the D.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


>


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## prabe

payn said:


>



So ... your dad managed to lose all Matt Damon's money?

... impressive.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> I’m just going to eat a hot dog. Plain,  no bun.
> 
> With Pineapple



Couldn't you remove the core and use the pineapple as the bun?  Maybe a whole kielbasa instead of just a single regular dog?


----------



## darjr

!!!!


----------



## darjr

The gods abandoned Athas to punish the innocent and guilty alike.


----------



## el-remmen

Look if you start checking to see if characters have enough food the next logical step that will happen in your game is that you will have to keep track of how much they brush and if they get cavities. If you introduce a system of taxes that exist in your setting, the next thing you know you will insist on PCs spending time at the table filling out a 1040 long form. That is just science. You cannot keep from sliding down that slope. Literally impossible.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> No.  Even if we disregard spammers, or people who were previously banned and using alts (who we can sometimes get before a single post is made), there have been folks whose first post was so egregious that they had to be removed on that alone.



The Mod Squad... Don't mess with the sexy
  lol


----------



## Thunderfoot

payn said:


> Nobody ever talks about enchiladas though...



I just realized I haven't eaten enchiladas since the ex left.    I'm gonna go cry now...


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> The bagel dog is delicious!




 I used to work at Pretzel Time in the local mall years ago. We made pretzel dogs. They're pretty damn tasty with some of the pretzel toppings on them.

(Fun fact: Most people don't realize that the only difference between pretzel dough and pizza dough is several cups of sugar...)




el-remmen said:


> This almost makes me want to start a poll thread with this as the main question . . _almost. . . _except it'd probably make my brain explode, make the mods' jobs harder, and have to be in the Meta forum which means no one would see it.
> 
> But it might be a fun thought exercise in this thread for grousing to imagine what the poll choices might be.




At least for me, I migrated here with the rest of the refugees from the sinking of the WotC D&D forums, and I've hung around long after most of the others left mainly because I'm a lazy s.o.b. who couldn't be bothered to go looking for another forum.


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> So ... your dad managed to lose all Matt Damon's money?
> 
> ... impressive.




Damon's been shilling for some cryptocurrency, so...


----------



## trappedslider

Thunderfoot said:


> I just realized I haven't eaten enchiladas since the ex left.    I'm gonna go cry now...



There is one week remaining before St. Patrick’s Day. Make sure you have plenty of green Chile sauce for your enchiladas before the big day! the big day!


----------



## trappedslider

Umbran said:


> Damon's been shilling for some cryptocurrency, so...



well he has to pay back the trillions it cost to keep looking for him every time he gets lost or left behind.


----------



## Umbran

Thunderfoot said:


> The Mod Squad... Don't mess with the sexy


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Damon's been shilling for some cryptocurrency, so...



Who hasn't, these days?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Umbran said:


> Lost.  Found.  Topic drift happens.



"Topic drift" wasn't my issue. I expect that, up to a point. But when the thread devolves into overly-long running gags, it loses value (at least for those who saw value in the first place).

I know. I'm not likely to change minds, and I don't want to be that person trying to shame anyone else's fun. Gods know, people need to have some fun around here! 

But I think this thread offered a real function for the good of the site, and for the mental health of many. Its nice to see how other people really feel sometimes, and know that you're not the only one trying hard not to make things worse. Better to scream into the void than most alternatives. Or maybe I'm just having a hard time lately. So, again, I apologize.

And hats off to @Retreater for coming up with this in the first place.


----------



## darjr

Gold Leader : It's no good, I can't maneuver! 
Gold Five : Stay on topic.
Gold Leader : We're too close!
Gold Five : Stay on topic!


----------



## Ryujin

Jacob Lewis said:


> "Topic drift" wasn't my issue. I expect that, up to a point. But when the thread devolves into overly-long running gags, it loses value (at least for those who saw value in the first place).
> 
> I know. I'm not likely to change minds, and I don't want to be that person trying to shame anyone else's fun. Gods know, people need to have some fun around here!
> 
> But I think this thread offered a real function for the good of the site, and for the mental health of many. Its nice to see how other people really feel sometimes, and know that you're not the only one trying hard not to make things worse. Better to scream into the void than most alternatives. Or maybe I'm just having a hard time lately. So, again, I apologize.
> 
> And hats off to @Retreater for coming up with this in the first place.



I can't speak for others, but for me a bit of comedy is my version of "screaming into the void." It's a pressure valve. If I'm posting HERE, it's likely because of something THERE.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> I can't speak for others, but for me a bit of comedy is my version of "screaming into the void." It's a pressure valve. If I'm posting HERE, it's likely because of something THERE.



It's also hard to not make them a bit odd sometimes when you aren't allowed to make it too clear which thread you would have posted in.


----------



## Bolares

Jacob Lewis said:


> "Topic drift" wasn't my issue. I expect that, up to a point. But when the thread devolves into overly-long running gags, it loses value (at least for those who saw value in the first place).
> 
> I know. I'm not likely to change minds, and I don't want to be that person trying to shame anyone else's fun. Gods know, people need to have some fun around here!
> 
> But I think this thread offered a real function for the good of the site, and for the mental health of many. Its nice to see how other people really feel sometimes, and know that you're not the only one trying hard not to make things worse. Better to scream into the void than most alternatives. Or maybe I'm just having a hard time lately. So, again, I apologize.
> 
> And hats off to @Retreater for coming up with this in the first place.



I think the beauty of this thread is that no matter what off-topic we are on this week, anyone can come and scream in to the void still...


----------



## prabe

Your definition of that term seems to include something no one else thinks is a part of that term.


----------



## Bolares

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> And here I've just been screaming my bad words into the Void.



Where can I find a mod to report the severe infraction of reposting a meme?


----------



## Umbran

Bolares said:


> Where can I find a mod to report the severe infraction of reposting a meme?




Oops.  Sorry.  I completely missed that it had already been posted.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Bolares said:


> Where can I find a mod to report the severe infraction of reposting a meme?



Hey, I've seen it multiple times on various fora, and it never fails to elicit a chuckle. Talk about "finger on the pulse of the times."


----------



## Asisreo

I wonder if it's a symptom of life moving so fast that when we look back, we see the past in a rose-tinted view. I always thought the color of bleak was black-or-white but it might very well be blue, then.


----------



## darjr

Yup.


----------



## Deset Gled

Asisreo said:


> I wonder if it's a symptom of life moving so fast that when we look back, we see the past in a rose-tinted view. I always thought the color of bleak was black-or-white but it might very well be blue, then.




I think it's a survival instinct.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Asisreo said:


> I wonder if it's a symptom of life moving so fast that when we look back, we see the past in a rose-tinted view. I always thought the color of bleak was black-or-white but it might very well be blue, then.


----------



## darjr

Hello, my name is jr, darjr.


----------



## darjr

Uh a!!

You can’t make me.

I can resist!


----------



## el-remmen

Me seeing all the speculation threads about future D&D products


----------



## J.Quondam

Whoah wut? Did that happen?


----------



## darjr

OK who got Luis in on it?!?

That’s just not fair!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Just remember, before green optics were a thing, the most used non-clear optics for sniper rifles were red... just saying.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Thunderfoot said:


> Just remember, before green optics were a thing, the most used non-clear optics for sniper rifles were red... just saying.



"Looking at things through a rose-colored sniper scope" has a very different ring to it...


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> "Looking at things through a rose-colored sniper scope" has a very different ring to it...



Careful what you aim for, you just might hit it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I think that I shall never see
Hot chocolate sauce on broccoli
But if I do, on my word
I'll order seconds, but not a third


----------



## billd91

Well, as Forrest Gump says, "Stupid is as stupid does."


----------



## Ryujin

Skeet thrower in 3.... 2....


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> Me seeing all the speculation threads about future D&D products




"Someone on Twitter mentioned _thri-kreen,_ and that someone is friends with someone who is friends with a follower of someone who works at _Wizards of the Coast,_ so basically Dark Sun is confirmed for 2024!  It's their 50th Anniversary, and there are fifty letters in 'thri-kreens to be released in the new Dark Sun campaign book'.  Is it just a coincidence!?  _I THINK NOT!!!!"_

Don't get me wrong, I would dearly love to see Dark Sun 5E.  But come on, ya'll.  Stop getting my hopes up!


----------



## J.Quondam

J.Quondam said:


> Whoah wut? Did that happen?



But I repeat myself.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> "Someone on Twitter mentioned _thri-kreen,_ and that someone is friends with someone who is friends with a follower of someone who works at _Wizards of the Coast,_ so basically Dark Sun is confirmed for 2024!  It's their 50th Anniversary, and there are fifty letters in 'thri-kreens to be released in the new Dark Sun campaign book'.  Is it just a coincidence!?  _I THINK NOT!!!!"_
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I would dearly love to see Dark Sun 5E.  But come on, ya'll.  Stop getting my hopes up!











						I Am Your Father'S Brother'S Nephew'S Cousin'S Former Roommate GIF - Nephew Roommate Father - Discover & Share GIFs
					

Click to view the GIF




					tenor.com


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> "Someone on Twitter mentioned _thri-kreen,_ and that someone is friends with someone who is friends with a follower of someone who works at _Wizards of the Coast,_ so basically Dark Sun is confirmed for 2024!  It's their 50th Anniversary, and there are fifty letters in 'thri-kreens to be released in the new Dark Sun campaign book'.  Is it just a coincidence!?  _I THINK NOT!!!!"_



And you know, "thri-kreen" has nine letters, which is 3 squared. and fifty is half of a hundred... You know where I'm going here, right? _THAT'S RIGHT!_ *HALF-LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!* GORDON FREEMAN'S COMING BACK, BABY!


----------



## Zardnaar

CleverNickName said:


> (CleverNickName has entered the chat)
> 
> View attachment 152688




 Insult our pizza all you want. We have better coffee 



 Mocha left, flat white right.

 American exile she's kinda new here.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Zardnaar said:


> Insult our pizza all you want. We have better coffee
> 
> View attachment 153217
> 
> Mocha left, flat white right.
> 
> American exile she's kinda new here.



My wife and I really enjoyed the coffee in New Zealand! Then again we also liked the pizza.

My favorite though were the meat pies!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Zardnaar said:


> Insult our pizza all you want. We have better coffee
> 
> View attachment 153217
> 
> Mocha left, flat white right.
> 
> American exile she's kinda new here.




Pictured- the ultimate New Zealand drink.







Adding unholy pineapple to something? CHECK.

Spelling espresso with an 'x'? DOUBLE-CHECK.

Not even giving us the sweet, sweet release of alcohol to let us forget this abomination? DISCOUNT DOUBLE ZEALAND!!!!


----------



## Zardnaar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pictured- the ultimate New Zealand drink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adding unholy pineapple to something? CHECK.
> 
> Spelling espresso with an 'x'? DOUBLE-CHECK.
> 
> Not even giving us the sweet, sweet release of alcohol to let us forget this abomination? DISCOUNT DOUBLE ZEALAND!!!!



 They're getting creative here. Had a beer cocktail for my birthday last year.

 Sometimes they screw it up though eg lammington flavoured potato chips.

 If it involves booze and sweetness someone here has tried it eg alcoholic rtd energy drinks back in the 90's.

Don't need to go to a hipster burger joint here. Any competent cafe/bar can do something like this. 



 Saturday morning here I may be at a bar (9:45am).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Zardnaar said:


> They're getting creative here. Had a beer cocktail vfor my birthday last year.
> 
> Sometimes they screw it up though eg lammington flavoured potato chips.
> 
> If it involves booze and sweetness someone here gas tried it eg alcoholic rtd energy drinks back in the 90's.




The best/worst mix is the alcohol and caffeine.

You keep getting more drunk and MORE ENERGETIC. ARGHHHHH!!!!!!


----------



## Zardnaar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The best/worst mix is the alcohol and caffeine.
> 
> You keep getting more drunk and MORE ENERGETIC. ARGHHHHH!!!!!!



 Well the ultimate NZ drink is a nasty swell (Buds better) and lots of it traditionally. These days some sort of fruity bitter IPA. I like a hazy APA myself


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The best/worst mix is the alcohol and caffeine.
> 
> You keep getting more drunk and MORE ENERGETIC. ARGHHHHH!!!!!!



My cousins like drinking Colorado bulldogs with diet coke and whole milk.


----------



## Zardnaar

My taste buds aren't patriotic. 


 We don't do a decent generic lager at a generic price. 

 Imported stuff though is similar in price to our swill. Not buying Russian beer now. German. If I could find it reliably I would go for Lithuanian.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Zardnaar said:


> My taste buds aren't patriotic.
> 
> View attachment 153232
> We don't do a decent generic lager at a generic price.
> 
> Imported stuff though is similar in price to our swill. Not buying Russian beer now. German. If I could find it reliably I would go for Lithuanian.




So a flightless kiwi walks into a bar and orders 12 martinis ....



Spoiler



What, are you waiting for a punchline? This isn't funny.... that kiwi needs help.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I didn't know where else to put this, so I'll put it here.

I was catching up on Star Trek Discovery last night, and something was bugging me about one of the minor recurring characters (that I love). Really bugging me.

Like ... I knew this actor. Completely knew who it was. But I couldn't place them. It was KILLING ME. So I finally looked it up.

O.

M.

G.

It's David friggin' Cronenberg. As soon as I saw it, everything clicked. Because I love and know Cronenberg. But because I wasn't expecting him in the show, I absolutely couldn't place him. It was a total brain freeze. He was out of context for me. So ... yeah, wow.


----------



## Zardnaar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So a flightless kiwi walks into a bar and orders 12 martinis ....
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> What, are you waiting for a punchline? This isn't funny.... that kiwi needs help.




 What's the difference between NZ and a pottle of yoghurt? The yoghurt has more culture. 

 High culture here is not vomiting on someone in front of you at a rugby game.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I didn't know where else to put this, so I'll put it here.
> 
> I was catching up on Star Trek Discovery last night, and something was bugging me about one of the minor recurring characters (that I love). Really bugging me.
> 
> Like ... I knew this actor. Completely knew who it was. But I couldn't place them. It was KILLING ME. So I finally looked it up.
> 
> O.
> 
> M.
> 
> G.
> 
> It's David friggin' Cronenberg. As soon as I saw it, everything clicked. Because I love and know Cronenberg. But because I wasn't expecting him in the show, I absolutely couldn't place him. It was a total brain freeze. He was out of context for me. So ... yeah, wow.



Similar, but more local one hit me last night. I realized that I had never watched "Wolf Cop" or the sequel, "Another Wolf Cop." Finally got around to it last night. Being a Canadian indie production, funded in part on Indiegogo, I expected Canadian music. Sure enough they used Gowan's "Moonlight Desires" in the first movie and "Strange Animal" in the second. Fine. Expected. What I didn't expect was Gowan, himself, making a speaking cameo in the second movie.


----------



## trappedslider

why...just why....


----------



## South by Southwest

Control freaks are the worst people DMs anywhere.

Ugh.


----------



## Gradine

Thunderfoot said:


> The Mod Squad...



I prefer the Odd Squad personally


----------



## Smackpixi

Where do you post if you DID comment in that other thread and regret it?


----------



## South by Southwest

Smackpixi said:


> Where do you post if you DID comment in that other thread and regret it?



Yeah, I definitely need one of those.


----------



## darjr

I sea lions


----------



## AnotherGuy

Not really.


----------



## Ryujin

Smackpixi said:


> Where do you post if you DID comment in that other thread and regret it?



Here, buy ironically.


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> "Someone on Twitter mentioned _thri-kreen,_ and that someone is friends with someone who is friends with a follower of someone who works at _Wizards of the Coast,_ so basically Dark Sun is confirmed for 2024!  It's their 50th Anniversary, and there are fifty letters in 'thri-kreens to be released in the new Dark Sun campaign book'.  Is it just a coincidence!?  _I THINK NOT!!!!"_
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I would dearly love to see Dark Sun 5E.  But come on, ya'll.  Stop getting my hopes up!



"I think we're gonna get Dark Sun, and if we don't it'll show that wotc doesn't care about their old fans!  But when we get Dark Sun, they're gonna totally ruin the setting by taking out slavery, because they don't care about their old fans!"


----------



## Jacob Lewis

I will not lower my standards or expectatons just so someone else can avoid raising their own.


----------



## Smackpixi

You would think it would be kids taking actions of their adored corporation personally, but no, its old ass men doing it.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Zardnaar said:


> Insult our pizza all you want. We have better coffee
> 
> View attachment 153217
> 
> Mocha left, flat white right.
> 
> American exile she's kinda new here.



Black and strong enough to melt nails.  Cream and sugar if I'm eating with it . Everything else is coffee adjacent beverages.  lmao


----------



## Thunderfoot

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The best/worst mix is the alcohol and caffeine.
> 
> You keep getting more drunk and MORE ENERGETIC. ARGHHHHH!!!!!!



Those are made for drunken hook-ups.. No inhibitions and limitless stamina.


----------



## CleverNickName

My morning cuppa:  coffee, black, no sugar.


----------



## darjr

Eh


----------



## Gradine

Nothing like the smell of diet mountain dew in the morning


----------



## billd91

Gradine said:


> Nothing like the smell of diet mountain dew in the morning


----------



## Smackpixi

Explaining how I’m right would be such a pita


----------



## Zardnaar

CleverNickName said:


> My morning cuppa:  coffee, black, no sugar.




 White no Suger.


----------



## Smackpixi

why do we have to approve of your narcissism?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> My morning cuppa:  coffee, black, no sugar.




My morning coffee is an Irish Coffee. 

Double Irish. Hold the coffee.


----------



## Ryujin

< HARUMPH! > Not a tea drinker in the lot, it seems. Philistines.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> < HARUMPH! > Not a tea drinker in the lot, it seems. Philistines.




Cold black tea here usually (since I gave up soda years back).


----------



## J.Quondam

A Turkish saying: _"Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love."_
I take mine thick, bitter, and black with no sugar, so that proverb seems on point.


_* Edited to add a bit to the proverb that I'd forgotten!_


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> A Turkish saying: _"Coffee should be black as hell, and sweet as love."_
> I take mine bitter and black with no sugar, so that proverb seems on point.




Coffee should be used judiciously in Stouts and Porters.


----------



## payn

So...this thread is now like every cubical office?


----------



## el-remmen

What can I tell you, except that doing your best to imagine a consistent world even though you understand you can never really have a 100% accurate reflection of a world with D&D game rules is badwrongfun.


----------



## Ryujin

In my experience the best use for coffee is in making fake historical documents.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

How can you be insulted by someone when you don't value their opinions regarding anything else?


----------



## el-remmen

I just want to say, that in a couple of hours I am actually going to be _playing _D&D which is better than arguing about it on these boards endlessly - and I plan to ask the group if they have rations for their trip and it will somehow not destroy the game.


----------



## Asisreo

el-remmen said:


> and I plan to ask the group if they have rations for their trip and it will not somehow not destroy the game.



Sabotaging your own game knowingly, huh? Either that or a typo.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I just want to say, that in a couple of hours I am actually going to be _playing _D&D which is better than arguing about it on these boards endlessly - and I plan to ask the group if they have rations for their trip and it will not somehow not destroy the game.



Isnt that called sitcom dad gaming now?


----------



## Cadence

Wondering who the most famous fantasy authors are who were primarily active from the 1970s on and have never recieved a Hugo, Nebula, BFA, World Fantasy Award, or Locus award or nomination.


----------



## el-remmen

Asisreo said:


> Sabotaging your own game knowingly, huh? Either that or a typo.





OOPS! Freudian slip!


----------



## Aeson

I like my coffee like I like my women. Strong and black.


----------



## Zardnaar

Ryujin said:


> < HARUMPH! > Not a tea drinker in the lot, it seems. Philistines.




  I prefer the term post colonial anglo Saxon mutt barbarian.


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> I like my coffee like I like my women. Strong and black.


----------



## Aeson

You can call me Shirley, but you have to at least buy me dinner first.


----------



## Ryujin

Zardnaar said:


> I prefer the term post colonial anglo Saxon mutt barbarian.



What, no Norse? The Almighty Johnsons would be ashamed. ASHAMED I SAY!


----------



## Zardnaar

Ryujin said:


> What, no Norse? The Almighty Johnsons would be ashamed. ASHAMED I SAY!




 Primary deity is R'ugby.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> < HARUMPH! > Not a tea drinker in the lot, it seems. Philistines.



Tea is more of an afternoon/evening drink for me.  (Also black, no sugar.)


----------



## darjr

I have needs! Meet my demands dangit!!


----------



## Asisreo

darjr said:


> I have needs! Meet my demands dangit!!



Starting to sound like my ex over there.


----------



## trappedslider

something something in another thread


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> < HARUMPH! > Not a tea drinker in the lot, it seems. Philistines.



Earl Grey. Hot.


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> Earl Grey. Hot.



A 100 box of Twinning's (Earl Grey) teabags doesn't last me very long. Tea at my first work break, at 10:00am. Tea at 2:00pm when I finish work. Tea around 6:30pm, after dinner, as a "digestive." Milk, 2 sugar. (Now Monkfruit sweetener, due to the diabetes thing.)


----------



## Aeson

I normally drink iced tea with Splenda. I wasn't aware of monkffruit sweetner. I tried stevia but couldn't adjust to it. I do green tea in the evening to relax. Hot with a couple of sweeteners. I haven't tried tea with milk in it. It seems strange to me. I guess drinking it cold with sweeteners and not sugar seems strange to some. lol

Even though I drink it iced, I prepare as if it's hot. I have an electric kettle just for tea. I'll pour the hot water in an insulated cup with the tea bag. I let it steep for a time. The longer, the better. Add sweetener to it and stir. I'll put ice in a tall glass then pour the tea in. Perfect, fresh glass every time.


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> I normally drink iced tea with Splenda. I wasn't aware of monkffruit sweetner. I tried stevia but couldn't adjust to it. I do green tea in the evening to relax. Hot with a couple of sweeteners. I haven't tried tea with milk in it. It seems strange to me. I guess drinking it cold with sweeteners and not sugar seems strange to some. lol
> 
> Even though I drink it iced, I prepare as if it's hot. I have an electric kettle just for tea. I'll pour the hot water in an insulated cup with the tea bag. I let it steep for a time. The longer, the better. Add sweetener to it and stir. I'll put ice in a tall glass then pour the tea in. Perfect, fresh glass every time.



Visiting the American South was a pain in the butt, as a tea drinker. They know sweet and unsweet, but don't have a clue that it can be served hot.

The Monkfruit sweetener is typically cut with Erythritol. There's no aftertaste that I can detect. Stevia I find to be just horrible.


----------



## Smackpixi

Bro, do you even know, what a chicken is.


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> Visiting the American South was a pain in the butt, as a tea drinker. They know sweet and unsweet, but don't have a clue that it can be served hot.
> 
> The Monkfruit sweetener is typically cut with Erythritol. There's no aftertaste that I can detect. Stevia I find to be just horrible.



Hell, in some parts of the South they don't think it can be served unsweetened. It's a 2 to 1 ratio sugar to tea. lol


----------



## Jacob Lewis




----------



## darjr

I tell them that will all that sugar it stings the bags.


----------



## payn

There is too much of a good thing folks. The more you know.


----------



## payn

There is also too much of a bad thing folks. Though, Im guessing you already knew that.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> There is also too much of a bad thing folks. Though, Im guessing you already knew that.



Bleh.
That reminds me, a little PSA: Smearing peanut butter on a couple of those dry ramen bricks and eating them like a sandwich isn't as flawless a plan for a meal as one might think.


----------



## CleverNickName

"I have a harmful aversion to fruits, vegetables, and meats, and it has ruined my health."
"Have you talked to a mental health professional?"
"Nah, I just eat ramen noodles."


----------



## darjr

I too am good at mimicking human emotions


----------



## Gradine

Fun fact: Mountain Dew Baja Blast Zero looks exactly like Nuka Cola Quantum and tastes exactly like you would expect Nuka Cola Quantum to taste


----------



## Smackpixi

Deleted stupid thing I said.


----------



## billd91

Smackpixi said:


> For a while I was trying to economize my posts, like only say a thing when it needed to be said, I was really proud of my restraint…then this forkhead had to go and be wrong, about a thing I had cleverly explained, but this guy, seemingly w/o any embarassment, just says the stupidest thing, so, politely I correct him, surly this is the end.  Omg his tard post is getting more likes than mine, and other people are not understanding my true point and thinking the snark about it is the real thing.  And so I post clarifying.  Omg what? I’m not a fag. I keep posting cause surely all will become clear.  No I’m not a pedo why don’t you see, I mean, come on look I HAVEPROVEDATHING…
> 
> seriously, fork the Internet.



You might want to clear some of the slurs out of your rant. Kthanxbye


----------



## trappedslider

wish we could ban hater watchers from threads


----------



## Thunderfoot

Aeson said:


> Hell, in some parts of the South they don't think it can be served unsweetened. It's a 2 to 1 ratio sugar to tea. lol



The way it _should_ be.


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


> wish we could ban hater watchers from threads



I just read it. Oh boy. I wanted to comment. I bit my typing finger. I can't do that double thumb typing on my phone the kids do these days. One finger to type as Gawd intended. 

Gawd gave us index fingers 4 reasons.
1. Waging disapprovingly 
2. Pointing at accusingly 
3. Picking our nose
4. Typing on teeny tiny phone screens

I think the guy in the other thread was using it to pick his nose and type at the same time.


----------



## Smackpixi

billd91 said:


> You might want to clear some of the slurs out of your rant. Kthanxbye



Yep, I surrender.


----------



## Aeson

Smackpixi said:


> Yep, I surrender.



You don't have to surrender. The language isn't used here. If someone else did use that type of language, it should be reported. If this is some cross board drama, it doesn't belong.


----------



## South by Southwest

Aeson said:


> You don't have to surrender. The language isn't used here. If someone else did use that type of language, it should be reported. If this is some cross board drama, it doesn't belong.



I'm pretty sure it was a parody of internet forum posts. And as such, I'd say it's pretty accurate, too.


----------



## billd91

South by Southwest said:


> I'm pretty sure it was a parody of internet forum posts. And as such, I'd say it's pretty accurate, too.



Doesn’t matter. The board’s owner and moderators take a dim view of some of the language, and so do some of the rest of us.


----------



## Aeson

South by Southwest said:


> I'm pretty sure it was a parody of internet forum posts. And as such, I'd say it's pretty accurate, too.



I don't disagree with the accuracy. 

Edit while still in posting process lol: What Bill said.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Smackpixi said:


> tard





Smackpixi said:


> fag



*Mod Note:*

Slurs?  Warning + Booted.


----------



## Cadence

"Why are you looking at me that way.  No rule says my character can't be a vegetarian  gourmet who only eats badly cooked beef, a bibliophile who doesn't like books, and a pacifist who always uses violence to solve everything as their first resort.  Why do you have to harsh on my fun!?!?"


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> "Why are you looking at me that way.  No rule says my character can't be a vegetarian  gourmet who only eats badly cooked beef, a bibliophile who doesn't like books, and a pacifist who always uses violence to solve everything as their first resort.  Why do you have to harsh on my fun!?!?"



Hey, characters can by hypocrites too!


----------



## Cadence

"I'm really tired of everyone thinking I like pineapple pizza... just because I show up to post about it whenever anything tangential to it is brought up, and almost always speak in defense of it or the person making it, no matter what."


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Wow. Apparently creating threads about how much you hate [insert topic] doesn't make for very constructive discussions. Who knew? 

/s


----------



## prabe

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Wow. Apparently creating threads about how much you hate [insert topic] doesn't make for very constructive discussions. Who knew?
> 
> /s


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Wow. Apparently creating threads about how much you hate [insert topic] doesn't make for very constructive discussions. Who knew?
> 
> /s



Wait, are we trying to have constructive discussion? I thought we were trying to deconstruct the concept of pizza.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Parmandur said:


> Wait, are we trying to have constructive discussion? I thought we were trying to deconstruct the concept of pizza.



The Venn Diagram between "Constructive Discussions" and "Deconstructing the Concept of Pizza" is almost a perfect circle, obviously.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Parmandur said:


> Wait, are we trying to have constructive discussion? I thought we were trying to deconstruct the concept of pizza.



Pizza deconstructed:


----------



## prabe

BookTenTiger said:


> Pizza deconstructed:



Or P-I-Z-Z-A.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

BookTenTiger said:


> Pizza deconstructed:



Wait . . . are you saying that the only true pizza topping is pineapple, with nothing else on it? 

Yeah, I can get behind that.


----------



## J.Quondam

BookTenTiger said:


> Pizza deconstructed:



It's like the wordle of my nightmares.


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> Or P-I-Z-Z-A.



_"René Magritte has entered the chat."_


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> _"René Magritte has entered the chat."_



I suggest you start with this post ...

Describe your last rpg session in 5 words

... and read for a bit. Seems up your alley.


----------



## darjr

Giant table of random pizza toppings never ever works.


----------



## Cadence

That post was a very good description of  itself.  ;-)


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> Giant table of random pizza toppings never ever works.



How do you intend to make pizza otherwise? Are you going to the fridge each time you need toppings? Setting them out on the table is much more efficient. Look at any pizza place for guidance and layout suggestions.


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> Giant table of random pizza toppings never ever works.



Not surprised. A lot of the other tables in the 1e DMG gave pretty odd results, too.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Giant table of random pizza toppings never ever works.



Don't knock it till you've tried it.


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> Not surprised. A lot of the other tables in the 1e DMG gave pretty odd results, too.



The "New Zealand pizza topping table" was the 2nd most controversial one in the book!


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> Don't knock it till you've tried it.



Oh! Wait till you get sat down at a random table with THAT GUY!


----------



## Thunderfoot

@Snarf Zagyg .... Please back me on this:

I'm pretty sure pineapple on pizza is on the poison table of the AD&D 1e  DMG.


----------



## Cadence

20 = roll again and an additional time (eighteen 20s indicates use all 19).

Here are 1-19:




__





						19 Strange and Unusual Pizza Toppings | Papa John's Blog
					

We all love a unique pizza, right? But what's the strangest, simple or unusual pizza toppings to ever to grace a pizza? Find out here!




					blog.papajohns.co.uk


----------



## darjr

I rolled 17.

How Gygaxian.










__





						google dice roller - Google Search
					





					g.co


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> I rolled 17.
> 
> How Gygaxian.
> 
> View attachment 153320
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> google dice roller - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g.co




Just finished a group going through the room of pools (of various magic effects) in Goodman's B1 update.  Thinking of a variant with a bunch of pizza ovens instead of pools of liquid. 

And some would most certainly be things one wouldn't want to try!


----------



## J.Quondam

Yeah...  some of those toppings sound like what's left after you send the livestock ahead to check for traps.


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> Yeah...  some of those toppings sound like what's left after you send the livestock ahead to check for traps.




My son has been watching lots of the show Bunk'd about a summer camp with a questionable kitchen...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Thunderfoot said:


> I'm pretty sure pineapple on pizza is on the poison table of the AD&D 1e  DMG.




Of course!

Who can forget the Petrification/Polymorph/Pineapple pizza saving throw?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Does anyone remember the 'Pizza Golem' (or was it breadstick golem) in the first published RPGA module of 3e?  All this pizza talk suddenly made me remember.


----------



## J.Quondam

Thunderfoot said:


> Does anyone remember the 'Pizza Golem' (or was it breadstick golem) in the first published RPGA module of 3e?  All this pizza talk suddenly made me remember.



I remember a calzone golem in one of the free mini-adventures. Is that what youre thinking of?

edit: Hmm...Looks like it's not longer available among Wizard's free archived stuff. I think it was called "Something's Cooking," now available on DMsGuild.


----------



## Thunderfoot

J.Quondam said:


> I remember a calzone golem in one of the free mini-adventures. Is that what youre thinking of?
> 
> edit: Hmm...Looks like it's not longer available among Wizard's free archived stuff. I think it was called "Something's Cooking," now available on DMsGuild.



THAT'S IT!!!! I knew it was something like that.  Beat mini ever in game.  I used an actual calzone and ate it as the PCs did damage.


----------



## Aeson

Thunderfoot said:


> THAT'S IT!!!! I knew it was something like that.  Beat mini ever in game.  I used an actual calzone and ate it as the PCs did damage.



That doesn't sound hygienic.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Aeson said:


> That doesn't sound hygienic.



What, everyone eats pizza at the table, I just only got fed when the PCs scored a blow to the monster.  When the fighter scored a crit I got to decapitate it ala Mr Bill.  It was epic AND tasty.


----------



## darjr

But…. I didn’t comment.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> But…. I didn’t comment.




All Cretans are liars.

And all liars are cretins.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> All Cretans are liars.
> 
> And all liars are cretins.



I was born a half planet away from Europe.


----------



## prabe

Your questions are thoughtful, but I think my answering would tend toward derailing your thread, if not being actual threadcrapping.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> I was born a half planet away from Europe.




"Half-planets" are an interesting unit... Mercury vs. Jupiter...


----------



## Deset Gled

Thunderfoot said:


> Does anyone remember the 'Pizza Golem' (or was it breadstick golem) in the first published RPGA module of 3e?  All this pizza talk suddenly made me remember.




My brain immediately went to this guy.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> "Half-planets" are an interesting unit... Mercury vs. Jupiter...





Interesting unit.


----------



## CleverNickName

_Wildermyth _is criminally underrated.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I know better.

_checks recent posts_

_sigh_

I don't know better.


----------



## Cadence

Surely there has to be someone good with photoshop to combine these...


----------



## Thunderfoot

Deset Gled said:


> My brain immediately went to this guy.



No, he ate himself.  lol

(It said so at the end of the movie)


----------



## darjr

We can’t be friends anymore


----------



## darjr

I can kinda sense what’s there? But am super duper fragilistic I dint actually know.


----------



## darjr

Parmanudur!!!!


----------



## darjr

Where in pirate Kansas? 

And please note I’m driving so your reply has to be Siri parsable


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Where in pirate Kansas?
> 
> And please note I’m driving so your reply has to be Siri parsable



Arkansas.


----------



## darjr

OK. 8 hours.

I can do this!

With the eye patch!


----------



## darjr

I have a friend who doesn’t post here, who’s name almost perfectly matches another posters name name.

I keep wanting to ask the poster how her chickens are doing.


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> _Wildermyth _is criminally underrated.



A friend of mine did some writing on that.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I have a friend who doesn’t post here, who’s name almost perfectly matches another posters name name.




What? You know Fnarf Sagig?



darjr said:


> I keep wanting to ask the poster how her chickens are doing.




On the street, that's slang for drug sales. And my chickens have done so well, I need to re-up.

Um ... get more chickens.


----------



## darjr

Im driving a pirate ship! I can’t hear you!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Giant light-absorbing anglerfish that are corrupted by alien crystals are just objectively cool, right? I'm not the crazy one for thinking they're just absolutely awesome, right?


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> Where in pirate Kansas?
> 
> And please note I’m driving so your reply has to be Siri parsable



Siri, reboot phone. Confirm.


----------



## darjr

I


----------



## darjr

Hate


----------



## darjr

This


----------



## darjr

Reboot


----------



## darjr

Loo


----------



## J.Quondam

Have you considered a bidet?


----------



## Thunderfoot

I'm Hen ery the 8th I am,
Hen ery the 8th I am, I am
I got married to the wider next door,
She's been married seven times before
and every one was a Hen ery.
She wouldn't have a Willy or a Sam
I'm her 8th old man I'm Hen ery
Hen ery the 8th I am, I am
Hen ery the 8th I am


----------



## Cadence

Pot, kettle.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Pot, kettle.



This is kinda an evergreen post, innit?


----------



## darjr

I don’t like tea or coffee. Thanks, but no.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I don’t like tea or coffee. Thanks, but no.



Try mixing them, see what happens.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> Try mixing them, see what happens.



Oh no! No way.

I saw Weird Science.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Try mixing them, see what happens.



That is *not* two great tastes that go great together. Keep your tea the hekk out of my coffee.


----------



## darjr

I solved the daylight savings thing, issue, crud.


I didn’t go to sleep till 4am.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> I solved the daylight savings thing, issue, crud.
> 
> 
> I didn’t go to sleep till 4am.



SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK

I AM VERY VERY WEAK


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I solved the daylight savings thing, issue, crud.
> 
> 
> I didn’t go to sleep till 4am.



Ah, the classic University study solution.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> That is *not* two great tastes that go great together. Keep your tea the hekk out of my coffee.



Beyond the flavor consideration, that might cause a bit of a funky trip.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Try mixing them, see what happens.




Kahlua in my Long Island Iced Tead?

_thinking_

Well, okay. But seven is my limit.


----------



## Cadence

It's ok to not always be a terse judgmental turd.  You <looks at self upthread>... er, we should try it.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> It's ok to not always be a terse judgmental turd.  You <looks at self upthread>... er, we should try it.



I dunno, change is scary.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> It's ok to not always be a terse judgmental turd.




Agreed.

The new hotness is to be a VERBOSE judgmental turd. That always works better!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Kahlua in my Long Island Iced Tead?
> 
> _thinking_
> 
> Well, okay. But seven is my limit.



Just do me a favor and hold the whole milk and diet coke.


----------



## Asisreo

I find it annoying that people get upset at others for their lack of generosity only for their benefit. Especially when the person has been extremely generous multiple times already. Oh, I don't know if this counts...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Just do me a favor and hold the whole milk and diet coke.




How else am I going to get my caffeine in the morning?

Not to mention gotta get my calcium somehow!


----------



## prabe

Asisreo said:


> I find it annoying that people get upset at others for their lack of generosity only for their benefit. Especially when the person has been extremely generous multiple times already. Oh, I don't know if this counts...



As someone who just generally finds people annoying, I admire your specificity!


----------



## payn

… Oh I like coffee and I like tea
I'd like to be able to enter a final plea
I still got this dream that you just can't shake
I love Bourbon to the point you can no longer take
Well all right okay, so be that way
I hope and pray that there's something left to say
… But you
Why you wanna give me a run-around?
Is it a sure-fire way to speed things up
When all it does is slow me down?


----------



## Asisreo

Oh, uh. Wasn't expecting the conversation to go that direction, honestly. Alright, I guess. Makes me even less likely to respond in that thread, though...


----------



## payn

Asisreo said:


> Oh, uh. Wasn't expecting the conversation to go that direction, honestly. Alright, I guess. Makes me even less likely to respond in that thread, though...



It's ok, you always got this one!


----------



## payn

Appears its non sequitur Tuesday.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Appears its non sequitur Tuesday.



So, how exactly is this day unlike any other?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> So, how exactly is this day unlike any other?




Because in addition to non sequitur Tuesday, it is, and always will be, Tutu Tuesday!


----------



## dragoner

Ha! Klaus Nomi


----------



## payn

I'm more of a Sprockets fan.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> Ha! Klaus Nomi




Has there ever been a situation that Klaus Nomi didn't make better?

WWKND?


----------



## darjr

My Tutu is a sprocket


----------



## dragoner

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Has there ever been a situation that Klaus Nomi didn't make better?
> 
> WWKND?



I thought he was in Mondo New York, though that was later, I guess I am conflating Mondo Video, and Urgh.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Touch my monkey.


----------



## el-remmen

Short of any evidence otherwise, I am going die on the hill that something happened or means exactly how I speculate it happened/means and your dismissal of my daydream argumentation is really rude!


----------



## prabe

Thunderfoot said:


> Touch my monkey.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I see your monkey, and raise you BIRDS!


----------



## Gradine

I like DMing because it is fun


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> I like DMing because it is fun




I like to be the DM because it's easier to spell than plaier .... pleiyer .... plier .... PLAYA.


----------



## trappedslider

Thunderfoot said:


> Touch my monkey.


----------



## el-remmen

Man, I LOVE Laurie Anderson. I also love Peter Gabriel.

I  recently wrote about the latter's song "Big Time" in conversation with Prince's "White Mansion."









						Songs in Conversation: Prince & Peter Gabriel Making It Big
					

Putting two songs on aspirational success released a decade apart into conversation 26 years later.




					themiddlespaces.com
				




Some years ago, I wrote about the former's "Baby Doll" in conversation with Loudon Wainwright III's "Men."









						Songs in Conversation: Those are Some Fragile Men, Baby Doll.
					

Defamiliarizing gender to highlight its constructedness.




					themiddlespaces.com


----------



## Cadence

Being "better" (or even "best") does not require being "good".


----------



## payn

I've had this conversation at least 16 times, and from now on it will be known as _Conversation 16.
_


----------



## trappedslider

really wish some people would get off their high horse and take it for a long walk off a short pier.


----------



## darjr

OK we get it


----------



## Asisreo

I know this thread exists but is there a thread where I can just scream into a void using words that a drill sergeant would blush hearing?


----------



## Parmandur

Asisreo said:


> I know this thread exists but is there a thread where I can just scream into a void using words that a drill sergeant would blush hearing?



I mean, you can scream at your screen right here, anytime.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> I mean, you can scream at your screen right here, anytime.



Any words you like, even.


----------



## J.Quondam




----------



## Jacob Lewis

Can they just make an announcement without announcing the announcement?


----------



## prabe

Jacob Lewis said:


> Can they just make an announcement without announcing the announcement?



BUT THEY WANT TO TELL YOU THEY'RE GOING TO TELL YOU THEY'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING

LET THEM HAVE THEIR MOMENT


----------



## J.Quondam

Jacob Lewis said:


> Can they just make an announcement without announcing the announcement?



Indeed! But they should announce that they're not going to announce the announcement, just to avoid confusion.


----------



## darjr

I shouldn’t have


----------



## Thunderfoot

Jacob Lewis said:


> Can they just make an announcement without announcing the announcement?



UN Article 5 Section12 Subsection 3 - 2 paragraph 4 says... no


----------



## Thunderfoot

Basic structure of a briefing:
1) I'm going to tell you about what I'm going to tell you. (overview/opening)

2) I'm going to tell you. (briefing/body)

3)I'm going to tell you about what I just told you. (summary/closing)


----------



## darjr

Look, you have to announce these things.

You just have too!


----------



## Asisreo

Parmandur said:


> I mean, you can scream at your screen right here, anytime.



Huh. That made me feel a little better but I guess it's true what they say about the void shouting back at you. I wish they warned me that it would shout "Shut the [unkind word] up, you [rule breaking noun]! I'm trying to get some damn sleep!" Kinda hurts my sensitive feelings, void, not cool.


----------



## darjr

Asisreo said:


> Huh. That made me feel a little better but I guess it's true what they say about the void shouting back at you. I wish they warned me that it would shout "Shut the [unkind word] up, you [rule breaking noun]! I'm trying to get some damn sleep!" Kinda hurts my sensitive feelings, void, not cool.



My dogs howled with you.


----------



## billd91

Still feeling the schadenfreude. It just never stops giving.


----------



## Aeson

Thunderfoot said:


> Touch my monkey.



A druid tried that with me once. It didn't go as I expected.


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


> really wish some people would get off their high horse and take it for a long walk off a short pier.



They can't. It's too high and they're afraid of heights.


----------



## RealAlHazred

The mixed metaphor has got me caught between a rock and the horns of a dilemma.


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> The mixed metaphor has got me caught between a rock and the horns of a dilemma.



When that happens, I just make like a tree, and get out of that thread.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> The mixed metaphor has got me caught between a rock and the horns of a dilemma.




A bad metaphor is like a simile.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> When that happens, I just make like a tree, and get out of that thread.



You're the very pineapple of topicality!


----------



## RealAlHazred

When your country is under cyber-attack from another country that has legions of hackers, moving your money out of that country to offshore accounts seems less like malfeasance and more like just good sense.

Huh, now I'm using this thread to respond to Reddit posts...


----------



## Aeson

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> When your country is under cyber-attack from another country that has legions of hackers, moving your money out of that country to offshore accounts seems less like malfeasance and more like just good sense.
> 
> Huh, now I'm using this thread to respond to Reddit posts...



No cross forum drama. 



We have enough drama here. lol I really wanted to say drama queens. But would that be insulting? What if I was vague and left it a general statement?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Aeson said:


> No cross forum drama.



Hey, I didn't start that! @darjr has already used this thread to vent about threads I've seen him in on other forums! And in my defense, responding to Redditors is an exercise in either futility or masochism, your choice.


----------



## darjr

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Hey, I didn't start that! @darjr has already used this thread to vent about threads I've seen him in on other forums! And in my defense, responding to Redditors is an exercise in either futility or masochism, your choice.



And threads in my own head.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Hey, I didn't start that! @darjr has already used this thread to vent about threads I've seen him in on other forums! And in my defense, responding to Redditors is an exercise in either futility or masochism, your choice.




That's unpossible.

As is well-known and not reasonably open to dispute, everyone else here only comes into existence when I am on the threads, and then you are banished to the nameless void when I am not present.

So ... since I am going on vacation shortly .... enjoy the void!


----------



## Aeson

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Hey, I didn't start that! @darjr has already used this thread to vent about threads I've seen him in on other forums! And in my defense, responding to Redditors is an exercise in either futility or masochism, your choice.



And if @darjr jumped off a bridge....?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Huh. Guess I do have some advice to give.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

If I explain things again, and just write more, and be more reasonable, and use better analogies, doggonit, this time they'll understand!

_types furiously

checks back 30 minutes later





_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Also, Netflix just sent me the following description of a show ....


_Skilled cake artists create mouthwatering replicas of handbags, sewing machines and more in a mind-bending baking contest inspired by a popular meme. Skilled cake artists create mouthwatering replicas of handbags, sewing machines and more in a mind-bending baking contest inspired by a popular meme._

1. The 'rona.

2. Ukraine Invasion.

3. The continuing existence of bards.

4. TV shows that are "inspired by a popular meme."


----------



## RealAlHazred

Aeson said:


> And if @darjr jumped off a bridge....?



Wait, @darjr jumped off a bridge?!? Which one? I've got to leg it if I'm going to jump off of it before lunch break ends!


----------



## darjr

Yea.


----------



## Aeson

Breaking News: Kansas Man Jump Off Bridge After Visit To Walmart!

Is Walmart driving people to commit suicide? Should you be worried that you, or your child might be next? What's lurking in the aisles of YOUR Walmart? What is Walmart's connection to Russia? If you want answers to the questions and more. If you want to stay live, tune in at 11.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> Breaking News: Kansas Man Jump Off Bridge After Visit To Walmart!
> 
> Is Walmart driving people to commit suicide? Should you be worried that you, or your child might be next? What's lurking in the aisles of YOUR Walmart? What is Walmart's connection to Russia? If you want answers to the questions and more. If you want to stay live, tune in at 11.




_*13 Ways Walmart Drives People To Suicide....*
You won't believe number 5! And it happened to a man in Kansas! _


----------



## CleverNickName

Thank you for all you've given us, Sam.  








						Hawaiian pizza inventor Sam Panopoulos dies aged 83
					

The Greek immigrant to Canada created the pizza topping in a flight of fancy in the 1960s.



					www.bbc.com
				




(yes, I know the article is old.  But so am I.)



Spoiler: Highlights from the article



*Things you may not know about the Hawaiian pizza*

Its tropical name - "Hawaiian"- came from the can of pineapples used in the first creation
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is a fan of the dish and came out on #teampineapple on Twitter earlier this year
Chef Gordon Ramsey is not on #teampineapple
Some Germans have laid claim to the invention, saying it is based on their pineapple-cheese-ham sandwich, the Toast Hawaii, popular in the 1950s


----------



## darjr

Not Kansas.

Pirate Kansas.


----------



## Asisreo

Aeson said:


> Is Walmart driving people to commit to a vacation via charon?



Yes.

There's only a few places where I'd rather be in Walmart and most of those places don't let you plane shift yourself the second time to end the partying.
Edit:
Edited to be more mindful.


----------



## darjr

Alright, who made them chief master in charge of stirring the pot?

I surely didn’t have a say.


----------



## Gradine

There are many things that are very, very funny. 

Suicide is not one of those things


----------



## darjr

Gradine said:


> There are many things that are very, very funny.
> 
> Suicide is not one of those things



Yea, apologies


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> Not Kansas.
> 
> Pirate Kansas.



They always get some of the facts wrong. If you're from the real Kansas or a pirated copy of it, is a minor detail.


----------



## dragoner




----------



## darjr

Ah. ENWorld. Where @Parmandur slowly poisons my soul with facts and reason.


----------



## prabe

FACTS AND REASON ARE DEATH TO THE SOUL


----------



## prabe

There is no way to say that term is useful without it being taken as edition-warring, is there?

Surprisingly, the fact some *extremely* unhelpful posters are posting is proving to be ... unhelpful.


----------



## BookTenTiger

It's okay to disagree, and _not_ post about it.


----------



## prabe

BookTenTiger said:


> It's okay to disagree, and _not_ post about it.



BUT THIS TIME I WILL BE CONVINCING WITH MY INVINCIBLE LOGIC


----------



## CleverNickName

Pro tip:  if you ever find yourself typing "Prove it, I'll wait" in a thread, you should just backspace over it and type something else instead.  Or type nothing, and just close your browser.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Pro tip:  if you ever find yourself typing "Prove it, I'll wait" in a thread, you should just backspace over it and type something else instead.  Or type nothing, and just close your browser.



And power down your computer.

And go for a walk or something.


----------



## darjr

OK. Closed browser.
Turned off phone.
Went for a walk.
Now what?!

WHaT?!


----------



## South by Southwest

darjr said:


> OK. Closed browser.
> Turned off phone.
> Went for a walk.
> Now what?!
> 
> WHaT?!



Tea.

Make a cup of tea with an old school kettle and infuser and sip it very slowly while staring out the window at something more encouraging than the mutual hostility endemic to the internet.


----------



## darjr

South by Southwest said:


> Tea.
> 
> Make a cup of tea with an old school kettle and infuser and sip it very slowly while staring out the window at something more encouraging than the mutual hostility endemic to the internet.



Old crushed dirty leaves in tepid water?

Sorry, that’s a no.

I saw what happened in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.


----------



## South by Southwest

Heheheheheh.


----------



## Mannahnin

darjr said:


> Old crushed dirty leaves in tepid water?
> 
> Sorry, that’s a no.
> 
> I saw what happened in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.



Ok, if you don't like tea, I think the next step while you're outside is colloquially known as "touch grass".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> BUT THIS TIME I WILL BE CONVINCING WITH MY INVINCIBLE LOGIC




The first three times I read that, I saw...

BUT THIS TIME I WILL BE CONVINCING WITH MY INVISIBLE LOGIC


I mean ... I can think of a lot of times it applies....


----------



## darjr

Invisible logic. The only kind I possess.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Ah. ENWorld. Where @Parmandur slowly poisons my soul with facts and reason.



I'm a proud inheritor of the Socratic tradition: for good and for ill.


----------



## Parmandur

BookTenTiger said:


> It's okay to disagree, and _not_ post about it.



What fun is that?


----------



## J.Quondam

What units are used to measure "fun"? And is metric or imperial preferred?


----------



## Parmandur

J.Quondam said:


> What units are used to measure "fun"? And is metric or imperial preferred?



It's more an art than a science.


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> Pro tip:  if you ever find yourself typing "Prove it, I'll wait" in a thread, you should just backspace over it and type something else instead.  Or type nothing, and just close your browser.




Yeah, anyone educated will use [citation needed].


----------



## Gradine

Always imperial; we're not communist scum. 

In other news, recovering from surgery is the pits


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> OK. Closed browser.
> Turned off phone.
> Went for a walk.
> Now what?!
> 
> WHaT?!



McD's Shamrock shake?


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The first three times I read that, I saw...
> 
> BUT THIS TIME I WILL BE CONVINCING WITH MY INVISIBLE LOGIC
> 
> 
> I mean ... I can think of a lot of times it applies....



SHE SEEMS TO HAVE AN INVISIBLE LOGIC
IT REACHES IN AND ...
SOMETHING
SOMETHING
SOMETHING


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> SHE SEEMS TO HAVE AN INVISIBLE LOGIC
> IT REACHES IN AND ...
> SOMETHING
> SOMETHING
> SOMETHING




The strange arguments remain a mystery, the sudden trolling fills the thread
What're we waitin' for? Won't anybody help us, what're we waitin' for?

I can't afford to be stay out of this, stand up and face the enemy
I need to post one more comment, my logic will be invisible

That shattered point, the other guy can't justify
IM GONNA SCREAM UNTIL IM SATISFIED!!!111!!!!  

What am I typin' for? I've got the right to be angry
What am I typin' for, when I've already made my good points long before

And with the power of conviction, my judgment I will sacrifice
I need to post one more comment, my logic will be invisible

Won't anybody help me, What am I typin' for
When there's no point, no point that gets through this flame war

And with the power of conviction, my judgment I will sacrifice
I need to post one more comment, my logic will be invisible

I can't afford to be stay out of this, stand up and face the enemy
I need to post one more comment, my logic will be invisible


----------



## Asisreo

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The strange arguments remain a mystery, the sudden trolling fills the thread
> What're we waitin' for? Won't anybody help us, what're we waitin' for?
> 
> I can't afford to be stay out of this, stand up and face the enemy
> I need to post one more comment, my logic will be invisible
> 
> That shattered point, the other guy can't justify
> IM GONNA SCREAM UNTIL IM SATISFIED!!!111!!!!
> 
> What am I typin' for? I've got the right to be angry
> What am I typin' for, when I've already made my good points long before
> 
> And with the power of conviction, my judgment I will sacrifice
> I need to post one more comment, my logic will be invisible
> 
> Won't anybody help me, What am I typin' for
> When there's no point, no point that gets through this flame war
> 
> And with the power of conviction, my judgment I will sacrifice
> I need to post one more comment, my logic will be invisible
> 
> I can't afford to be stay out of this, stand up and face the enemy
> I need to post one more comment, my logic will be invisible



Power up all you like, I want to out-logic you at your full potential so I can mentally beat you down with my infallible reasoning. While you charge up, I'll show you my ultimate form. 

That's right. I'm not just your average EnWorlder. I've been trained for several years on a certain social platform, such that I can even survive arguing on Facebook for several hours...WITH MY REAL NAME! 

That's right, Snarf. I've ascended from your pathetic paragraph-long arguments and am now able to destroy people's arguments in under 100 characters. Face my ultimate debates. For I've become...a Twitter User!

Now, ratio + cope


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Asisreo said:


> That's right, Snarf. I've ascended from your pathetic paragraph-long arguments and am now able to destroy people's arguments in under 100 characters. Face my ultimate debates. For I've become...a Twitter User!




100 words? I destroy people in 4 words or less.


_Nobody will remember us._


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 100 words? I destroy people in 4 words or less.
> 
> 
> _Nobody will remember us._


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 100 words? I destroy people in 4 words or less.
> 
> 
> _Nobody will remember us._



Sed contra, Somebody will remember everything you do. Yes, even that.


----------



## payn




----------



## RealAlHazred

Parmandur said:


> I'm a proud inheritor of the Socratic tradition: for good and for ill.



You know they got so tired of his constant crap they made him drink poison, right?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> You know they got so tired of his constant crap they made him drink poison, right?




Socrates' famous last words, "Wait, I drank what?"


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Socrates' famous last words, "Wait, I drank what?"



I always figured his last words were, "Urck. Arck! AAAAAACK!" Roughly.


----------



## darjr

Dangit. This sucks.

I saw it earlier but didn’t want to post it hoping it wasn’t true.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I always figured his last words were, "Urck. Arck! AAAAAACK!" Roughly.




Usually, famous people try to be more ... erudite. Like Dylan Thomas ... "17 shots, that must be a record."


----------



## payn




----------



## dragoner

Wow, bummer.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

If anyone needs a little lightness....






Source.  (Nathan Pyle)


----------



## payn

Candy corn? Ruined my day.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Candy corn? Ruined my day.



If that was all it would take to ruin my day, I'd think that sugary confections would be the least of my problems.


----------



## J.Quondam

Isn't "hot hot liquid lumps" the sole surviving lyric from some forgotten one-hit-wonder rap from the '90s?


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> Isn't "hot hot liquid lumps" the sole surviving lyric from some forgotten one-hit-wonder rap from the '90s?



Now my day is made again.


----------



## Aeson

prabe said:


> I always figured his last words were, "Urck. Arck! AAAAAACK!" Roughly.



And I thought it was, "tastes like NZ beer."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Isn't "hot hot liquid lumps" the sole surviving lyric from some forgotten one-hit-wonder rap from the '90s?




You wish.

It wasn't the 90s.
And it wasn't just one hit.

Whatcha gon' eat when y'all drunk
Need a place for scratchy hot-bread to dunk?
I'ma get, get, get, get you drunk
Get so very drunk you gon' eat some hot lumps
Hot lumps, hot lumps, hot lumps, hot lumps, hot lumps
Hot lumps, hot lumps, hot lumps, some hot hot liquid lumps
Check it out








_YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!!!!_


----------



## J.Quondam

Dammit, Snarf.


----------



## Cadence

Won't someone think of the undead pineapple pizza!!?!?


----------



## darjr

Do not lay down on the uncooked pizza bread. No matter how inviting.


----------



## CleverNickName

So this is an actual pizza you can buy right now, at Little Caesar's Pizza.  It's right there on the front page of their website, they call it the "Batman Calzony."  Looking at it, two things immediately become clear:
1.  There is not, nor should there ever be, a such thing as a "calzony."
2.  They need to hire more women in their marketing department.


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> 2.  They need to hire more women in their marketing department.



Or even guys who do the grocery/toiletry shopping for their families without being too embarrassed to enter certain aisles. You know which ones I mean.


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> 2.  They need to hire more women in their marketing department.




I'd bet they knew what they were doing and were counting on the viral response.


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> So this is an actual pizza you can buy right now, at Little Caesar's Pizza.  It's right there on the front page of their website, they call it the "Batman Calzony."  Looking at it, two things immediately become clear:
> 1.  There is not, nor should there ever be, a such thing as a "calzony."
> 2.  They need to hire more women in their marketing department.
> View attachment 153597



Back in the day they tried all sorts of things. A football shaped pizza. Pizza by the foot.


It was a real pain in the  to deliver. Took up the whole length of the back seat. The bag didn't close properly.


----------



## Aeson

billd91 said:


> Or even guys who do the grocery/toiletry shopping for their families without being too embarrassed to enter certain aisles. You know which ones I mean.



Produce?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> So this is an actual pizza you can buy right now, at Little Caesar's Pizza.  It's right there on the front page of their website, they call it the "Batman Calzony."  Looking at it, two things immediately become clear:
> 1.  There is not, nor should there ever be, a such thing as a "calzony."
> 2.  They need to hire more women in their marketing department.
> View attachment 153597



Not seen anything like this since the pazone. Im guessing six weeks worth of sodium in every piece?


----------



## Parmandur

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> You know they got so tired of his constant crap they made him drink poison, right?



I know, isn't the remote anonymity of the internet wonderful? Imagine what Socrates could have done with a web forum, or Twitter.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> So this is an actual pizza you can buy right now, at Little Caesar's Pizza.  It's right there on the front page of their website, they call it the "Batman Calzony."  Looking at it, two things immediately become clear:
> 1.  There is not, nor should there ever be, a such thing as a "calzony."
> 2.  They need to hire more women in their marketing department.
> View attachment 153597



You know, it's not half bad. A bit small.


----------



## darjr

I know you’re right.

But I’m only going to concede that here.


----------



## CleverNickName

CleverNickName's Rules To Live By, No. 103:
You're never as clever as you think you are.
Yes, even now.  Yes, even you.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> CleverNickName's Rules To Live By, No. 103:
> You're never as clever as you think you are.
> Yes, even now.  Yes, even you.



The only thing I know is that I know nothing.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> The only thing I know is that I know nothing.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> CleverNickName's Rules To Live By, No. 103:
> You're never as clever as you think you are.
> Yes, even now.  Yes, even you.



Also, "A failure mode of 'clever' is 'naughty word.'"

(not my line)

EDIT: Apparently, we can't swear even moderately. Sorry.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> Also, "A failure mode of 'clever' is 'naughty word.'"
> 
> (not my line)
> 
> EDIT: Apparently, we can't swear even moderately. Sorry.



I think I prefer it this way.


----------



## Gradine

I like boardgames


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> I like boardgames



I do, too--especially co-operative ones. I find the pleasures different in kind, but nearly equivalent in extent.


----------



## payn

Diplomacy is the king of all board games.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Gradine said:


> I like boardgames



Boardgames are great!!


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Diplomacy is the king of all board games.



Topical.


----------



## BookTenTiger

At some point you all may have to concede that nobody's subjective interpretation can be proven wrong.


----------



## Parmandur

BookTenTiger said:


> At some point you all may have to concede that nobody's subjective interpretation can be proven wrong.



Never give up, never surrender.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Never give up, never surrender.




Never understand, never remember.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Never give up, never surrender.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Never understand, never remember.



Of course not.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


>



Remember, this guy also wears his sunglasses at night.


----------



## Asisreo

CleverNickName said:


> CleverNickName's Rules To Live By, No. 103:
> You're never as clever as you think you are.
> Yes, even now.  Yes, even you.



Yeah, I know. Grateful the mods even allow some of the drivel I post on this thread alone.


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> So this is an actual pizza you can buy right now, at Little Caesar's Pizza.  It's right there on the front page of their website, they call it the "Batman Calzony."  Looking at it, two things immediately become clear:
> 1.  There is not, nor should there ever be, a such thing as a "calzony."
> 2.  They need to hire more women in their marketing department.
> View attachment 153597



I watched Reviewbrah deplore this thing a few weeks ago.  It was fairly entertaining.


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> CleverNickName's Rules To Live By, No. 103:
> You're never as clever as you think you are.
> Yes, even now.  Yes, even you.



No, my mom said I'm a very smart boy. 

All the other boys _didn't _eat their Play-Doh. Decadent fat cats.


----------



## Thunderfoot

CleverNickName said:


> CleverNickName's Rules To Live By, No. 103:
> You're never as clever as you think you are.
> Yes, even now.  Yes, even you.



Corollary to Rule 103...
You're not as smart as I think I am....
wait...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

WRONG THREAD.

Sorry.


----------



## darjr

I think an opportunity to see that actress play the borg Queen is all the reason I need.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *SNARF WAS A BAD BOY*



You know before the Picard season 2 trailer dropped I was talking to my wife about what parts of Star Trek I hated most and Q and traveling back to current day episodes were definitely on the list.

Then I watched the trailer.

I don't have much hope.


----------



## Aeson

SPOILERS!!!!!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> SPOILERS!!!!!




CRUD CRUD CRUD Wrong thread.


----------



## darjr

OK Snarf deleted his post, I’m asking kindly if quoters of said post would do the same, or at least spoiler tag?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> OK *snark *deleted his post, I’m asking kindly if quoters of said post would do the same, or at least spoiler tag?




Freudian slip much?


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Freudian slip much?



Ope! I fixed it just as you quoted it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Ope! I fixed it just as you quoted it.




No worries.

I resemble that comment.


----------



## Asisreo

Yeah. This is why I don't trust internet people.


----------



## el-remmen

Deep Space Nine's time travel episodes are the best ones in Trek.

All the Mirror Universe episodes save for the Original Series and Discovery (where it was used the best) are crappy - _especially _the _Deep Space Nine _ones.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Deep Space Nine's time travel episodes are the best ones in Trek.
> 
> All the Mirror Universe episodes save for the Original Series and Discovery (where it was used the best) are crappy - _especially _the _Deep Space Nine _ones.


----------



## Malmuria




----------



## darjr

Malmuria said:


>



This is an act of barbarism


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


>



Crappy.


----------



## el-remmen

darjr said:


> This is an act of barbarism




Yeah, that looks like terrible pizza.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> Deep Space Nine's time travel episodes are the best ones in Trek.
> 
> All the Mirror Universe episodes save for the Original Series and Discovery (where it was used the best) are crappy - _especially _the _Deep Space Nine _ones.



Anything that puts Nana Visitor in a catsuit can't be bad.


----------



## trappedslider

ugh, some people....


----------



## Asisreo

The fact that they probably only replied was due to one word which fills them with such disgust that they feel the need to put others down. 

What's worse, I'd love to have an open discussion with them as even if it wouldn't change their mind, it would help those looking to be educated on the matter. But I also know that the silent treatment is the only way to keep the discussion from devolving into some of the most pre-adolescenct, hate-fueled written bile to be expelled in Enworld in a good while. 

Whatever. I think I should just snap my keyboard in half for my own good.


----------



## darjr

Well, that was cool at least.


----------



## darjr

_dangit_


----------



## CleverNickName

Woah.  Monty Cook Games just joined the bundle.  I hope more show up.


----------



## payn

Kush sounds so good right now...


----------



## South by Southwest

A thread about Nazis...gonna remind myself not to open those.


----------



## Thunderfoot

darjr said:


> This is an act of barbarism



Revenge is a dish best served with a side of irony and a cup of sarcasm...  I believe this qualifies.  Kudos!


----------



## Thunderfoot

South by Southwest said:


> A thread about Nazis...gonna remind myself not to open those.



<Sings> Springtimmmee for Hitler in Germanyyyyyy.


----------



## Zardnaar

Mocha and a sausage roll with ketchup.


----------



## darjr

That’s coffee isn’t it?


----------



## BookTenTiger




----------



## dragoner

BookTenTiger said:


>


----------



## Maxperson

CleverNickName said:


> I don't eat steak very often, usually only on my birthday or such.
> But when I do, I'm a medium-rare ribeye, salt-and-pepper-only kind of guy.



I like salt, pepper and garlic.


----------



## Zardnaar

darjr said:


> That’s coffee isn’t it?




 Coffee and hot chocolate.


----------



## Thunderfoot

medium-rare... a good veterinarian could cute that.


----------



## payn

I like shrooms with my steak.


----------



## Maxperson

payn said:


> I like shrooms with my steak.



For me mushrooms are much like your avatar.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Maxperson said:


> For me mushrooms are much like your avatar.



I'm allergic to mushrooms.


----------



## Maxperson

Thunderfoot said:


> I'm allergic to mushrooms.



I'm not allergic.  I just strongly dislike the taste and texture.  Poultry is what I'm allergic to.  No chicken or turkey for me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I like shrooms with my steak.




I prefer my steak with a stiff martini.

…. and LSD.


----------



## Asisreo

Maxperson said:


> No chicken or turkey for me.



Gah, that really sucks.  

Edit: Trimmed some fat


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> OK Snarf deleted his post, I’m asking kindly if quoters of said post would do the same, or at least spoiler tag?



I did it. I didn't see your post until now. Sorry.


----------



## Aeson

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I prefer my steak with a stiff martini.
> 
> …. and LSD.



That's what she said?


----------



## trappedslider

really wishing hater watchers would be ejected from a thread


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> really wishing hater watchers would be ejected from a thread




hater watchers?  (=down voters that don't post?)


----------



## Cadence

I hope you find happiness.


----------



## trappedslider

Cadence said:


> hater watchers?  (=down voters that don't post?)



hate-watching

the activity of watching a television program for the sake of the enjoyment derived from mocking or criticizing it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> hate-watching
> 
> the activity of watching a television program for the sake of the enjoyment derived from mocking or criticizing it.




Wait. There’s *another reason *to watch something???!

_-Me, acknowledging that my favorite muppets are Statler and Waldorf. _


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _-Me, acknowledging that my favorite muppets are Statler and Waldorf. _



Who were spectacular as the Jacob and Robert Marley.


----------



## J.Quondam

*specter-cular


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> *specter-cular


----------



## Aeson

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Wait. There’s *another reason *to watch something???!
> 
> _-Me, acknowledging that my favorite muppets are Statler and Waldorf. _



But can you identify which one is which?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> I hope you find happiness.



"Oh, yes, we tried it, but we didn't like it! No, thank you!"


----------



## Thunderfoot

Maxperson said:


> I'm not allergic.  I just strongly dislike the taste and texture.  Poultry is what I'm allergic to.  No chicken or turkey for me.



I'm so sorry, I don't really eat anything other than chicken or poultry and pork.  I try to limit beef to 2 to 4 servings a month.  Really helped with the kidney stones.


----------



## Retreater

I just discovered my wife prefers ketchup on fried fish. I don't know if our marriage can take this.


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> I just discovered my wife prefers ketchup on fried fish. I don't know if our marriage can take this.



I'd start tossing malt vinegar like it was holy water.


----------



## trappedslider

Retreater said:


> I just discovered my wife prefers ketchup on fried fish. I don't know if our marriage can take this.



we stand with you in your time of need


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> I'd start tossing malt vinegar like it was holy water.



Hot take: ketchup is just malt vinegar with some veggies juice.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Hot take: ketchup is just malt vinegar with some veggies juice.



There is ZERO sugar in malt vinegar.

Hotter take: Ketchup is just red frosting with some veggies juice.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> There is ZERO sugar in malt vinegar.
> 
> Hotter take: Ketchup is just red frosting with some veggies juice.



I agree that there is malt vinegar*and* sugar in ketchup. That is, its malt vinegar, but better.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> I agree that there is malt vinegar*and* sugar in ketchup. That is, its malt vinegar, but better.



For those with a birthday cake palate, I suppose it is.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> For those with a birthday cake palate, I suppose it is.



Uhhh, yeah, birthday cake is the best. Particullarly if it is more frosting than cake.


----------



## BookTenTiger

I like ketchup.


Note: this is a reply I didn't post in another thread.


----------



## darjr

Ketchup is not food.

It's a con dement.


----------



## Parmandur

Now I want to make a pineapple and ham birthday cake.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> Ketchup is not food.
> 
> It's a con dement.



Depends on how you drink it, I suppose.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Now I want to make a pineapple and ham birthday cake.



Why not? Pizza dough and cake have a few ingredients in common so have at it.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Why not? Pizza dough and cake have a few ingredients in common so have at it.



Make it a tomato cream cheese frosting...thus may be doable.


----------



## South by Southwest

All these threads about how to re-tool D&D and why doing so is absolutely imperative...

I guess I'm just done with second-guessing game systems the mechanics of which I only halfway understand.


----------



## trappedslider

Practice safe lunch. Always use condiments.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Jacob Lewis

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 153761



*Pizzazzu*, Demon Lord of Pizzas and Pizzazz

(Not to be confused with Pazuzu.)


----------



## Thunderfoot

Jacob Lewis said:


> *Pizzazzu*, Demon Lord of Pizzas and Pizzazz
> 
> (Not to be confused with Pazuzu.)



Demon Lord of Pizza.  Let me guess, pineapple was his idea.


----------



## billd91

Lots of dumb on the internet lately.


----------



## Aeson

billd91 said:


> Lots of dumb on the internet lately.


----------



## darjr

billd91 said:


> Lots of dumb on the internet lately.



Where?!?


----------



## darjr

Aeson said:


>



Oh


----------



## Parmandur

billd91 said:


> Lots of dumb on the internet lately.



Lots of dumb wherever man doth roam.


----------



## RealAlHazred

_raises hand_ Can I be excused today? I have the dumb.


----------



## darjr

I have the dumb.


----------



## Asisreo

billd91 said:


> Lots of dumb on the internet lately.



Oops, sorry I must have spilled it on my way to the stupid convention.


----------



## prabe

Asisreo said:


> Oops, sorry I must have spilled it on my way to the stupid convention.



MOP-UP, AISLE NINE


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> MOP-UP, AISLE NINE



I’m in Aisle Nine right now!!!!


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> I’m in Aisle Nine right now!!!!



Watch your step. someone spilled dumb all over the place.


----------



## CleverNickName

Newly-joined ENWorld members coming here from Reddit like


----------



## darjr

Aeson said:


> Watch your step. someone spilled dumb all over the place.



Too late! I got it all over me.

that’s my story anyway


----------



## South by Southwest

darjr said:


> Too late! I got it all over me.
> 
> that’s my story anyway



For myself, I somehow can't stop hearing in my head Lady Gaga's "Born This Way."

But I wasn't--I really wasn't: I had to get a PhD to become this stupid.


----------



## Cadence

If you don't have anything to add but repeated sarcasm and snark, and choose to repeatedly do so, you are actively making the discussions you participate in worse by participating*.  Even if that puts you in company of plenty of others, it isn't a virtue.

* Except in threads or boards dedicated to snark.


----------



## darjr

Never forget destruction may be the goal.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> Never forget destruction may be the goal.



The Agents of Entropy are everywhere.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ryujin said:


> The Agents of Entropy are everywhere.



That's ENtropy..  I fixed it.  lol


----------



## Asisreo

prabe said:


> MOP-UP, AISLE NINE



That's not gonna help. I'm like the BP of idiocy.


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> The Agents of Entropy are everywhere.



They are legion and they are growing.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

They lost me at "competitive".


----------



## Aeson

Jacob Lewis said:


> They lost me at "competitive".



You can find it on aisle nine.


----------



## Zardnaar

No one here would eat this right? Cheeseburger in brioche bun and caramalized onions.


----------



## Aeson

Zardnaar said:


> No one here would eat this right? Cheeseburger in brioche bun and caramalized onions.
> 
> View attachment 153909



Yes, please. Why the hell not? Can I have some more?


----------



## Umbran

Zardnaar said:


> No one here would eat this right? Cheeseburger in brioche bun and caramalized onions.
> 
> View attachment 153909




It ain't got pinapple on it, so it is fair game.


----------



## Aeson

Umbran said:


> It ain't got pinapple on it, so it is fair game.



But pineapple on a burger is delicious. Also, a fried egg on a burger is delicious. Have you tried that? Steak 'n Shake has it. They call it a Royale.


----------



## Umbran

Aeson said:


> But pineapple on a burger is delicious. Also, a fried egg on a burger is delicious. Have you tried that? Steak 'n Shake has it. They call it a Royale.


----------



## Aeson

I should have put money on a meme from that movie making an appearance.


----------



## prabe

Aeson said:


> I should have put money on a meme from that movie making an appearance.



Once the burger talk started it was all but inevitable.


----------



## Umbran

Now, of course, I am hungry and want a burger.


----------



## payn

Breakfast burger!


----------



## prabe

That's not at all the kind of product I wanted, but y'all have fun with it.


----------



## Asisreo

payn said:


> Breakfast burger!



The actual gif here is unappealing, but I do actually enjoy putting eggs on my burgers regardless of the time of day.

Actually, I just like eggs in almost anything.


----------



## payn

Asisreo said:


> The actual gif here is unappealing, but I do actually enjoy putting eggs on my burgers regardless of the time of day.
> 
> Actually, I just like eggs in almost anything.



Not a huge fan of eggs on their own. Though, I know lots of folks like the humpty dumpty burger.


----------



## Ryujin

Steak on a bun with an egg, I'll take. Mushrooms and cheddar sauce are for burgers.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Steak on a bun with an egg, I'll take. Mushrooms and cheddar sauce are for burgers.



Nothing wrong with mushrooms and steak!


----------



## billd91

Sometimes, it's like having an argument with a bot.


----------



## darjr

I see unfounded assumptions all the way out to the horizon.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> I see unfounded assumptions all the way out to the horizon.


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


>



I’m gunna be sick


----------



## BookTenTiger

I'm not a fan of Nascar. I find it to be silly.

But I wouldn't go onto a Nascar forum and post in every thread about Nascar that I don't like Nascar.


----------



## el-remmen




----------



## Ryujin

BookTenTiger said:


> I'm not a fan of Nascar. I find it to be silly.
> 
> But I wouldn't go onto a Nascar forum and post in every thread about Nascar that I don't like Nascar.



I got pulled into a SUV forum, by a friend, because a bunch of anti-SUV activists started posting in it. These were people who would actively go to car dealerships and vandalize brand new vehicles, with bumper sticker sized signs about Climate Change. My friend knew that I liked honing my debating skills, at that time. One particularly obnoxious individual had a tactic of cutting people's responses up into bite sized pieces and then taking the comments out of context. The killing blow came when he crowed about his 1962 Volvo and how clean it was, when compared to "these monsters." Yeah, right. A 1962 vehicle with virtually no emissions controls, that even when new spewed tons of hydrocarbons and ran on leaded gas.


----------



## Aeson

Now I want to troll a NASCAR forum. Just go in and liberal up the whole place. Be as antigun, antiTrump, antistupid I can get. You people are a bad influence.


----------



## darjr

There is a poster here that posts in another site that I shall not name. And every once in a while I hear about the dumbster truck he unloads on them, or the hilarious self owns they commit debating him.


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> Now I want to troll a NASCAR forum. Just go in and liberal up the whole place. Be as antigun, antiTrump, antistupid I can get. You people are a bad influence.



HEY! I'll have you know that NASCAR races are chocked full of unpredictable action!! First they go straight. Then they go LEFT! And then they go straight again, followed by another LEFT!!!

(I (used to) shoot motorcycle racing as a sideline, which is a little more unpredictable  )


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> HEY! I'll have you know that NASCAR races are chocked full of unpredictable action!! First they go straight. Then they go LEFT! And then they go straight again, followed by another LEFT!!!
> 
> (I (used to) shoot motorcycle racing as a sideline, which is a little more unpredictable  )



The after parities are full of golden showers too I hear.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> The after parities are full of golden showers too I hear.



Different sort


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Different sort



I was thinking of this.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ryujin said:


> HEY! I'll have you know that NASCAR races are chocked full of unpredictable action!! First they go straight. Then they go LEFT! And then they go straight again, followed by another LEFT!!!
> 
> (I (used to) shoot motorcycle racing as a sideline, which is a little more unpredictable  )



I think with the exception of one or two road courses they go exclusively left.

The Excitement!

*Mod Note:* Um... that video was not really up to our standards, so it has been removed.  ~Umbran


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> HEY! I'll have you know that NASCAR races are chocked full of unpredictable action!! First they go straight. Then they go LEFT! And then they go straight again, followed by another LEFT!!!
> 
> (I (used to) shoot motorcycle racing as a sideline, which is a little more unpredictable  )



They threw in road races several years back. Sometimes they turn right. Needless to say, it gets exciting when one forgets to go right.


----------



## darjr

I….
Is that a compliment?


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> They threw in road races several years back. Sometimes they turn right. Needless to say, it gets exciting when one forgets to go right.



Back in the early '90s I went down to Laconia, NH, for the Bike Week races at New Hampshire Motor Speedway. This is a NASCAR style oval, with a road course built into it. During the Harley Sportster races 8 riders 'forgot' to turn left, approaching corner one off the front straight, and ended up sliding on the banking. It was a bit... messy. I think that everyone walked away under their own power though.


----------



## Asisreo

Ryujin said:


> HEY! I'll have you know that NASCAR races are chocked full of unpredictable action!! First they go straight. Then they go LEFT! And then they go straight again, followed by another LEFT!!!
> 
> (I (used to) shoot motorcycle racing as a sideline, which is a little more unpredictable  )



NASCAR sure sounds like my college years.


----------



## Zardnaar

Umbran said:


> It ain't got pinapple on it, so it is fair game.




 Here that's a Hawaiian burger. Or it's with egg and bacon. Steak and egg burger add pineapple and bacon also works.


----------



## Cadence

I really want to bookmark that to use as a reply when you do the same thing.


----------



## Zardnaar

Cadence said:


> I really want to bookmark that to use as a reply when you do the same thing.




 Not sure how Aussie and UK do it but you  here you can got get a feed of fish and chips, burger, Cambodian satay beef and a Chinese meal all cooked in the same place. Not quite ye olde fish and chips anymore. 

 Some places do Indonesian or Malaysian dishes as well as Chinese and the burgers/fish.


----------



## Cadence

Zardnaar said:


> Not sure how Aussie and UK do it but you  here you can got get a feed of fish and chips, burger, Cambodian satay beef and a Chinese meal all cooked in the same place. Not quite ye olde fish and chips anymore.
> 
> Some places do Indonesian or Malaysian dishes as well as Chinese and the burgers/fish.



That wasn't a reply to you    It was to a post in another thread.  (Now, if bookmarking burger posts got them delivered to me or something...)


----------



## payn

So let me get this straight; everyone else is wrong but you are correct?


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> So let me get this straight; everyone else is wrong but you are correct?



BY JOVE I BELIEVE YOU HAVE IT


----------



## Zardnaar

Cadence said:


> That wasn't a reply to you    It was to a post in another thread.  (Now, if bookmarking burger posts got them delivered to me or something...)




 My bad I'll blame the French.


----------



## Cadence

Zardnaar said:


> My bad I'll blame the French.



I used to, but LeBeau in Hogan's Heroes brought me around.  Who can blame a face like that.


----------



## payn

What is Phoenix AZ doing that got them named worst city for pizza?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Anytime I think about trying to gauge the relative terribleness of various terrible things people have done, I think, "What will _this_ exercise in futility get me, exactly?" and move along with my day.


----------



## Cadence

In other news, my son did a project in his (middle school) media arts class on dragons, and the teacher likely saw a D&D book in his bag.  The teacher mentioned they play in a game every week.   That class ended shortly after with the change of quarters, but my son got up the courage to email them that a few kids in school might be interested in a D&D club and asked if they would be interested in running it.  Answer is maybe not time this year... but asked if he would be attending next year as well.  Looks like hope it could go next year!


----------



## dragoner

Westerners lub them some race threads. Years ago on myspazz, the mod in the forums made it so race threads could only be posted in one place, and called it "the one thread to bind them" like the ring in lotr.


----------



## CleverNickName

"I need to find a _new way _to say the same thing I've been saying for ten pages, so that other person will be forced to admit I'm right.  The last fifteen times I rephrased myself didn't work, but _this time _will be different!"


----------



## Umbran

Humans are freakin' exhausting, sometimes.


----------



## darjr

Ah Dangit!

this thread! Post it in THIS thread.

I’ll eventually figure it out.

narrator: no, no he does not.


----------



## darjr

Too be fair, I’ve never watched it.

well, not the whole thing anyway.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Humans are freakin' exhausting, sometimes.



Tell me about it. I'm about ready to buy a few dozen acres of land in the US Pacific Northwest, throw a quonset home on it, and retreat from modern "society."


----------



## Cadence

Mmmm... doughnuts.


----------



## Malmuria

Every single person involved in this project knows that there will be increased and in many cases unfair scrutiny just because the authors are people of color.  They know, whether they want it or not, that their work will be taken as representative of the work of poc in general, and they'll work twice as hard to put their best foot forward.  They'll aim to produce work that's not just _as good, _but better.


----------



## CleverNickName

If you shift all of the pineapple tidbits from your slice of pizza onto another slice of pizza fewer than 10 slices away, does the pizza still have pineapple on it?


----------



## payn

Ok, now that the bats have been passed around, everybody grab the correct color jersey for your favorite edition and lets settle this once and for all..
.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Ok, now that the bats have been passed around, everybody grab the correct color jersey for your favorite edition and lets settle this once and for all..
> .




Can we argue about you picking baseball instead of soccer, American football, basketball, or sportsball first?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Can we argue about you picking baseball instead of soccer, American football, basketball, or sportsball first?



Only if you compare them to editions.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Only if you compare them to editions.



If D&D was a ball game, and if ball games were pizza toppings, which editions of D&D would have pineapple on them?


----------



## J.Quondam

People pick the strangest hills to die on.


----------



## BookTenTiger

A lot of folks are using one of these today!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> Humans are freakin' exhausting, sometimes.



Sure there is frailty in humans bit there is good also!!  (Props to Boromir)


----------



## Umbran

Thunderfoot said:


> Sure there is frailty in humans bit there is good also!!  (Props to Boromir)




I didn't say they were evil, bad, or weak.  I said they were "exhausting".


----------



## BookTenTiger

Umbran said:


> I didn't say they were evil, bad, or weak.  I said they were "exhausting".



Careful Umbran, you only get 6 levels of exhaustion before you die!


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> If D&D was a ball game, and if ball games were pizza toppings, which editions of D&D would have pineapple on them?



All of them, except 5e. I haven't played 5e in person (yet), so haven't had the opportunity to have pineapple on my pizza with it.


----------



## Ryujin

BookTenTiger said:


> Careful Umbran, you only get 6 levels of exhaustion before you die!



Play TORG. Two Fatigue Points, per Exhaustion Card that comes up, so I've seen people have up to 8 before exhaustion. Or get a couple of cyberware pain buffers and go essentially forever.


----------



## darjr

All hail king TORG!


----------



## darjr

It’s sad when peoples lack of imagination drives the words they type into a post.


----------



## Cadence

Sure, who doesn't like a well defined set of die rolling rules for hours of enjoyment, like Risk.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> I didn't say they were evil, bad, or weak.  I said they were "exhausting".



I didn't say bad neither, I said frailty.


----------



## South by Southwest

Umbran said:


> Humans are freakin' exhausting, sometimes.



Being a web forum mod really is a lot like being a janitor except that you don't get paid.


----------



## trappedslider

South by Southwest said:


> Being a web forum mod really is a lot like being a janitor except that you don't get paid.



Depends on the company....


----------



## South by Southwest

trappedslider said:


> Depends on the company....



For real? Are there some that actually pay their mods? I never saw a dime.


----------



## Umbran

Thunderfoot said:


> I didn't say bad neither, I said frailty.




You see, this is an example of how exhausting people are.

I said, "evil, bad, or weak".  Frailty and weakness are synonyms.  But, even though I covered it, you have to argue, because, you know, heaven forefend someone else has a point.


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> Depends on the company....




I don't get paid.  I prefer it that way, actually.


----------



## prabe

Sometimes obvious metaphors are obvious.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> Sure, who doesn't like a well defined set of die rolling rules for hours of enjoyment, like Risk.




Are you coming at Risk? Because I'm prepared to defend Risk.


----------



## darjr

Are people sandwiches pop tarts?


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> Are people sandwiches pop tarts?



Are pop tarts threesomes?


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> Are you coming at Risk? Because I'm prepared to defend Risk.




I played a ton of risk back in the day  
And my son is old enough now that I should try getting him into it.

I've never tried it as a ttrpg before though!


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> Are pop tarts threesomes?



Not when the bears show up!


----------



## darjr

Wait. I was talking about this.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> Wait. I was talking about this.



That's less a pop tart and more like a burrito, innit?


----------



## Deset Gled

prabe said:


> That's less a pop tart and more like a burrito, innit?




Wait, I know this one. A pop tart _is _a burrito! 

Also, cereal is gazpacho. And waffles are nachos.


----------



## Malmuria

Deset Gled said:


> Wait, I know this one. A pop tart _is _a burrito!
> 
> Also, cereal is gazpacho. And waffles are nachos.



All of those are sandwiches, if you think about it


----------



## Parmandur

Man, seeing only half of this conversation just gets weird and weirder as it goes on.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I'm tired of all this D&D arguing, I'm going to play an actual _good game_ like Cyborg Commando!


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm tired of all this D&D arguing, I'm going to play an actual _good game_ like Cyborg Commando!



 I was reading the Wikipedia section on its reception, and thought I was reading about my least favorite D&D edition...


----------



## eyeheartawk

Cadence said:


> I was reading the Wikipedia section on its reception, and thought I was reading about my least favorite D&D edition...



My favorite part of that game is the endless charts about the future population density of Cleveland.


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> My favorite part of that game is the endless charts about the future population density of Cleveland.




I really need to find a copy!


----------



## payn

I performed a preempted disengage yesterday, turned out to be a really good choice!


----------



## Mad_Jack

J.Quondam said:


> People pick the strangest hills to die on.




 And all the fallen get buried in large mounds that become the hills that later folks will die on.

(Now that I think about it, that's one hell of a metaphor for the edition wars, lol.)


----------



## darjr

Or the planescape wars, in all the ways that can be meant.


----------



## Umbran

Deset Gled said:


> Are you coming at Risk? Because I'm prepared to defend Risk.




You better hold Australia if you want to do that.


----------



## Aeson

Umbran said:


> You better hold Australia if you want to do that.



But..but..but it's full of Australians. Be sure to hold at arm's length.


----------



## eyeheartawk




----------



## darjr

Y’all are stronger than I thought. Last I checked I could only hold a couple few Australians, and they were tiny. A whole country?!


----------



## Umbran

Aeson said:


> But..but..but it's full of Australians. Be sure to hold at arm's length.




Well, the native wildlife, sure.  It is universally trying to kill you.  The Australians, however, aren't too bad.  Except for the Vegemite.


----------



## darjr

No. The Australians are all trying to kill us. Just through a competitive nature. At least the last time I met one that’s how it went.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hoo boy, don't get me started on Shannara.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Hoo boy, don't get me started on Shannara.



Elf Stones were the best.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Elf Stones were the best.



What did I _just say,_ payn?!

(_Elfstones_ is pretty darn good, but _Scions_ is best.)


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Elf Stones were the best.



Compared to gnome nuts, halfling eggs, and orcballs?


----------



## darjr

Kobold dingleberries?

huh we were just talking about kobolds on Twitter.


----------



## darjr

I can’t believe I posted that.
Am I drunk?


----------



## CleverNickName

I'm pretty sure Elf Stones is a unit of mass.  Just like Halfling Pounds, Orc Kilograms, Goblin Ounces, Dwarf Tonnes, and Illithid Slugs.


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> Hoo boy, don't get me started on Shannara.



Sorry!

Up until just then the extent of my Shannara knowledge was that it was that one MTV show with elves wearing hoodies.


----------



## el-remmen

I have never read a Shannara book. Or a Robert Jordan book.


----------



## eyeheartawk

el-remmen said:


> I have never read a Shannara book. Or a Robert Jordan book.



You ever into something and you don't really know why?

As a fan of the Wheel of Time, I honestly can't recommend it in any objective sense.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Sorry!
> 
> Up until just then the extent of my Shannara knowledge was that it was that one MTV show with elves wearing hoodies.



Hoodies are a timeless and classic garment.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Hoodies are a timeless and classic garment.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> What did I _just say,_ payn?!
> 
> (_Elfstones_ is pretty darn good, but _Scions_ is best.)



_Scions? _Really? When _Druid _and _Elf Queen _are both right there?


----------



## Gradine

Of the original trilogy, as a kid my opinion was like:
Elfstones >>> Sword >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wishsong

Whereas in retrospect I'm at
Wishsong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Elfstones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sword


----------



## RealAlHazred

Asking some specific folks to comment "where [they] can be constructive" is somewhat akin to asking for snow in July in Phoenix.


----------



## South by Southwest

darjr said:


> I can’t believe I posted that.
> Am I drunk?



Not yet, but you can fix that.


----------



## South by Southwest

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Asking some specific folks to comment "where [they] can be constructive" is somewhat akin to asking for snow in July in Phoenix.



That just seems to be the internet: being _right_ is always more fun than being helpful.


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> _Scions? _Really? When _Druid _and _Elf Queen _are both right there?



Well you gotta start somewhere, right?  The whole _Heritage of SHannara _series is solid.


----------



## Asisreo

Umbran said:


> Humans are freakin' exhausting, sometimes.



I don't feel like mods get enough appreciation. Just by virtue of what they allow and don't allow on the platform dictates the BS that might flood the forums.


----------



## darjr

Holy crap we have actual bots! When did that happen?


----------



## Ryujin

Asisreo said:


> I don't feel like mods get enough appreciation. Just by virtue of what they allow and don't allow on the platform dictates the BS that might flood the forums.



You just reminded me to check on the motorcycle forum where I'm a mod, after being largely offline for the day. Come on "marketing-zipfox@xxxxx.com" with an IP in central India. You aren't even trying!


----------



## el-remmen

As someone who was a mod for a time, I will say I think it is harder than you know, and I resigned after I caught myself passing on regulating someone doing that skirting the line on purpose thing that has to be squashed one time too many because I was just too annoyed and exhausted to deal with it. I figured that was not fair to the other mods or good for the health of the boards, so I stepped down to let Morrus get someone else in. As it was, I was actually visiting the boards less and less at that point and coming here just b/c I got an email about a reported post was a lot less than fun.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> As someone who was a mod for a time, I will say I think it is harder than you know, and I resigned after I caught myself passing on regulating someone doing that skirting the line on purpose thing that has to be squashed one time too many because I was just too annoyed and exhausted to deal with it. I figured that was not fair to the other mods or good for the health of the boards, so I stepped down to let Morrus get someone else in. As it was, I was actually visiting the boards less and less at that point and coming here just b/c I got an email about a reported post was a lot less than fun.



I hear you. I've 'tried' to quite modding that motorcycle forum that I mentioned many times, over the last 20+ years. The attacks from people who don't like being called out on their BS resulted in a rule that any attack on a mod for doing their job, be it in a post or direct PM, is cause for instant and permanent ban.


----------



## el-remmen

And here is another holler out of frustration over that thing where you happen to agree with some people on a subject but their approach to discussing their preferences and their assumptions about its meaning is so dismissive of any other position and so hyperbolic and disingenuous in characterizing anything other than the preferred thing that I see no point in being associated with them and keep my preferences to myself.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> Well you gotta start somewhere, right?  The whole _Heritage of SHannara _series is solid.



True, but those two stories in particular stand out so much to me, as they're mostly complete and self-contained. _Druid _is still hands down the one of the best quest fantasy novels I've read, and _Elf Queen _is essentially fantasy _Aliens_


----------



## CleverNickName

Rare footage of my brief time as an internet forum moderator on another website:




(it was an election year)


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Rare footage of my brief time as an internet forum moderator on another website:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (it was an election year)











						Ban hammer of the Mod's by KMM
					

I once wanted a ban hammer but no one made one.... now that i have the power to forge one i have done just that, taking DrBlackAdder thing # 24988, i didnt like how the words printed to i modifed the file a little to have the smaller words stand out while the word moderator sink in, also added a...




					www.thingiverse.com


----------



## trappedslider

Umbran said:


> Well, the native wildlife, sure.  It is universally trying to kill you.  The Australians, however, aren't too bad.  Except for the Vegemite.



But everyone knows that australia is entirely peopled with criminals.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> But everyone knows that australia is entirely peopled with criminals.



And absolutely made up.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> And absolutely made up.




I think you'll find that it is Wyoming that is entirely fictional.  



trappedslider said:


> But everyone knows that australia is entirely peopled with criminals.




That's okay.  The drop bears are more than enough to make them see the errors of their anti-social ways.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I think you'll find that it is Wyoming that is entirely fictional.



You missed "also."


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> You missed "also."




I am fairly certain that Australia does actually exist.  The Vegemite and kangaroos have to come from _somewhere_, after all.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> I hear you. I've 'tried' to quite modding that motorcycle forum that I mentioned many times, over the last 20+ years. The attacks from people who don't like being called out on their BS resulted in a rule that any attack on a mod for doing their job, be it in a post or direct PM, is cause for instant and permanent ban.




 I used to be a chat room moderator in a number of rooms on a webcam site. I was there to hang out and talk with friends but some days it was more like playing a text-based real-time strategy game, spending all my time hopping back and forth between rooms with my mod stick in one hand and the banhammer in the other telling people to behave and kicking/banning idiots...


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I am fairly certain that Australia does actually exist.  The Vegemite and kangaroos have to come from _somewhere_, after all.



Factories and laboratories, in no particular order.


----------



## Parmandur

el-remmen said:


> I have never read a Shannara book. Or a Robert Jordan book.



The former is fun, the latter is well worth the effort.


----------



## trappedslider

I'm seriously about to use the block function for once....


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> I'm seriously about to use the block function for once....


----------



## trappedslider

darjr said:


> View attachment 154185



oddly yes


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


> I'm seriously about to use the block function for once....



I wasn't your first?


----------



## Asisreo

Aeson said:


> I wasn't your first?



Unfortunately, you never are.


----------



## trappedslider

Aeson said:


> I wasn't your first?



but i like you...why would i block you? :O


----------



## Parmandur

Literally none of that is true.


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> Literally none of that is true.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> View attachment 154210



No, even Marx would be on my side.


----------



## darjr

Yea, 2019 seems like a lifetime ago.
Necromancer thread indeed.


----------



## Asisreo

I still wonder if I'm blocked/ignored by some users. 

Everyone, if you can't see this message please respond to it. Thank you


----------



## darjr

Asisreo said:


> I still wonder if I'm blocked/ignored by some users.
> 
> Everyone, if you can't see this message please respond to it. Thank you



I can’t see it.


----------



## payn

What is darjr posting about?


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> What is darjr posting about?



What are _you_ posting about?


----------



## Asisreo

Considering noone has posted yet, I must be pretty popular.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> What is darjr posting about?



Who? Are there people posting in this thread? What am I responding to...?


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> but i like you...why would i block you? :O



Really? I think this is the only real legitimate reason to block.


----------



## darjr

Strange empty thread?
Huh?


----------



## eyeheartawk

I just ate Spaghettios for the first time in like, 15 years. 

You know, it's not terrible.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I just ate Spaghettios for the first time in like, 15 years.
> 
> You know, it's not terrible.



With meatballs?


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> With meatballs?



Always.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Always.



Some like the franks instead. Nobody likes plain though.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Some like the franks instead. Nobody likes plain though.



Heresy!


----------



## CleverNickName

I like the plain best (it's a texture thing, the texture of canned meat is off-putting to me).  
If I'm feeling fancy I'll add parmesan and red pepper flake.


----------



## darjr

Transporters kill their passengers and replicate an exact but separate and entirety different clone.

Hahah!


----------



## el-remmen

I have never eaten Spaghetti-Os in 50 years of being alive. I am more likely to read a Shannara or Wheel of Time book than I am to change that.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> With meatballs?



Yeah, with the meatballs.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Transporters kill their passengers and replicate an exact but separate and entirety different clone.




The first models of transporters failed, because their computers caught fire trying handle the logical inconsistency of "exactly the same but entirely different".  Indeed, Kirk's strategy for beating computers with logical paradoxes came out of a transporter maintenance handbook he had to memorize when he was an Ensign.


----------



## Gradine

Nah spahgettios are still bomb. Same with Kraft Mac n' Cheese


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> Transporters kill their passengers and replicate an exact but separate and entirety different clone.
> 
> Hahah!



There's an entire episode of "The Outer Limits" that's based on that.


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


> There's an entire episode of "The Outer Limits" that's based on that.



I'm pretty sure there's an extra Riker running around in Star Trek because of it


----------



## Cadence

I'd kind of like to take some folks posts, change the context a bit, and then ask them to judge how abrupt/hostile/non-constructive they thought they were... based on how they react to others.  

(No fair doing that to me though!)


----------



## Deset Gled

Gradine said:


> I'm pretty sure there's an extra Riker running around in Star Trek because of it




Also a movie.  But if I name the movie, it's already a spoiler.


----------



## South by Southwest

darjr said:


> Transporters kill their passengers and replicate an exact but separate and entirety different clone.
> 
> Hahah!



In nerd-world we joke about these things, but in fact a famous Oxford philosopher, Derek Parfit, wrote an entire book about these exact sorts of questions. Especially because of the results of Star Trek transporter thought experiments for the conceptual boundaries of selfhood, he ultimately concluded that the Buddhists are right and there actually is no such thing as a "self."

No joke. The book is called _Reasons and Persons_. It is an absolute classic  in academic philosophy.

The more I look at the real world, the more plausible science fiction becomes.


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> I'm pretty sure there's an extra Riker running around in Star Trek because of it




 So, while this all is true for a lot of sci-fi transport, it actually isn't entirely true for Star Trek transporters.

Canonically, a Trek transporter does take you apart, and turns you into what they something they call a "matter stream" - the stream is you physical form converted, which is then sent (still maintaining the pattern that is "you") and reassembled.  Technically, they take you apart, and put you back together again _out of the same stuff_ - you are not actually _entirely_ different.  Every bit of you from the start reaches the destination.

Thomas Ryker (eventually using William T. Ryker's middle name) arose when his transporter beam interacted with a "distortion field".  To make this work in Trek physics, the information of his pattern was duplicated, and energy taken from that distortion field to provide the matter to reconstruct the second Ryker.  

(this is from ST:TNG, episode "Second Chances")


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> In nerd-world we joke about these things, but in fact a famous Oxford philosopher, Derek Parfit, wrote an entire book about these exact sorts of questions. Especially because of the results of Star Trek transporter thought experiments for the conceptual boundaries of selfhood, he ultimately concluded that the Buddhists are right and there actually is no such thing as a "self."
> 
> No joke. The book is called _Reasons and Persons_. It is an absolute classic  in academic philosophy.
> 
> The more I look at the real world, the more plausible science fiction becomes.



For this reason the "transporters" in my Space Opera universe used an "artificial dimensional rift" (ie wormhole) in order to transport. Well, technically there was only one, that my players found in the course of their long running subplot about finding ancient technology, because it was a Forerunner device.


----------



## South by Southwest

Ryujin said:


> For this reason the "transporters" in my Space Opera universe used an "artificial dimensional rift" (ie wormhole) in order to transport. Well, technically there was only one, that my players found in the course of their long running subplot about finding ancient technology, because it was a Forerunner device.



Pretty nifty idea. It sounds a bit like _Babylon Five_ and _Deep Space Nine_, but (if I'm reading you correctly) on a smaller and more portable scale.


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> Pretty nifty idea. It sounds a bit like _Babylon Five_ and _Deep Space Nine_, but (if I'm reading you correctly) on a smaller and more portable scale.



In practice it was more like a Stargate ring, but with the ring only needed on one end. This was around 1984/1985. Space Opera came out in 1980 and Stargate was released in 1994, so should I go after them for copyright infringement?  

I modified the gate a bit from the original specs. I was running the adventure "Vault of the Ni'er Queyon" as the over-arching story, with other adventures used as the fill in between. Instead of the "spice runner" Millennium Falcon type ship they were supposed to get, I gave them a refitted patrol vessel from one of the Sheldon's Starcraft books. The 'transporter' in the original adventure had a high chance of killing anyone using it, but I liked the concept too much for that. I described it in pretty Geigeresque terms. They ended up converting part of a hold as their "transporter room." Sadly, the campaign started to fizzle out after that point and we only had one more completed adventure.









						Vault of the Ni'er Queyon - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Mad_Jack

South by Southwest said:


> The more I look at the real world, the more plausible science fiction becomes.




 The more I look at the real world, the more I'm convinced it _is_ science fiction.

But then I tell myself that nobody could possibly make this <expletive> up...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Reminds me of the sci-fi convention game I had planned to run, where the player characters found themselves still on-planet when the teleporter has a "power blip." Turns out copies of them were made at their destination, and those are the "legal" versions of themselves. Then they have to escape the teleporter megacorporation, which strictly enforces a "no additional copies" policy with lethal force. The plan was, at the end, to see which players were playing their characters in a particularly mercenary fashion, and then use "duplicates" of those characters to split the party for the final escape/battle. Hey, _they _might not care one way or the other, but the megacorporation has deep pockets with which to compensate any concerned citizens willing to help them out of a jam.


----------



## Cadence

"Is it possible, I wonder, to study a bird so closely, to observe and catalogue its peculiarities in such minute detail, that it becomes invisible? Is it possible that while fastidiously calibrating the span of its wings or the length of its tarsus, we somehow lose sight of its poetry? That in our pedestrian descriptions of a marbled or vermiculated plumage we forfeit a glimpse of living canvases, cascades of carefully toned browns and golds that would shame Kandinsky, misty explosions of color to rival Monet? I believe that we do. I believe that in approaching our subject with the sensibilities of statisticians and dissectionists, we distance ourselves increasingly from the marvelous and spell binding planet of imagination whose gravity drew us to our studies in the first place."

- from Watchmen's "Blood From the Shoulder of Pallas", by Alan Moore


----------



## South by Southwest

^^ You nailed it, Cadence.


----------



## South by Southwest

So does nobody use the PM system when they have a complaint against the mods? My gast is completely flabbered right now...


----------



## Cadence

South by Southwest said:


> So does nobody use the PM system when they have a complaint against the mods? My gast is completely flabbered right now...



I've PM'ed a mod before when I've felt something didn't feel right.  I don't think they've changed anything in those few cases, but I felt listened to.


----------



## Umbran

South by Southwest said:


> So does nobody use the PM system when they have a complaint against the mods? My gast is completely flabbered right now...




Yep.  Folks who are not happy with moderation do send us PMs.



Cadence said:


> I've PM'ed a mod before when I've felt something didn't feel right.  I don't think they've changed anything in those few cases, but I felt listened to.




I have certainly changed my mind about things based on PM discussion.  Sometimes, posters learn a thing or two if they are actually willing to listen.  

However, most often, PMs come in when someone is angry about getting red text, and they just vent anger, as if being hotheaded, entitled and rude at us is going to convince us that we were wrong about whatever thing happened in the thread.   "You are a dumb@ss on a power trip, and wrongity, wrong, with wrong sauce!" usually doesn't make things better.

If you are going to PM a mod, it really helps for you to stop, take a breath, and think about what could be said to change someone's view of a situation in a constructive way.


----------



## Cadence

"This is not to say that we should cease to establish facts and to verify our information, but merely to suggest that unless those facts can be imbued with the flash of poetic insight then they remain dull gems; semi-precious stones scarcely worth the collecting. When we stare into the catatonic black bead of a Parakeet's eye we must teach ourselves to glimpse the cold, alien madness that Max Ernst perceived when he chose to robe his naked brides in confections of scarlet feather and the transplanted monstrous heads of exotic birds."

- from Watchmen's "Blood From the Shoulder of Pallas", by Alan Moore


----------



## Parmandur

You are literally not using any of those words in their proper meaning or valiance.


----------



## Asisreo

South by Southwest said:


> So does nobody use the PM system when they have a complaint against the mods? My gast is completely flabbered right now...



When I last PM'd Umbran, it was like a legendary battle. We clashed until finally he had to submit. Now, I carry my victory with pride. 

-bardic tales of Asisreo


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> You are literally not using any of those words in their proper meaning or valiance.



valence?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> You see, this is an example of how exhausting people are.
> 
> I said, "evil, bad, or weak".  Frailty and weakness are synonyms.  But, even though I covered it, you have to argue, because, you know, heaven forefend someone else has a point.



I gave you a winky.  Poke Poke....  Umbran, brother, sometimes we give you crap because we _like you_.   Not all families operate the same, in my family, if we ignore you, THEN you should worry..   _hugs_


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> So, while this all is true for a lot of sci-fi transport, it actually isn't entirely true for Star Trek transporters.
> 
> Canonically, a Trek transporter does take you apart, and turns you into what they something they call a "matter stream" - the stream is you physical form converted, which is then sent (still maintaining the pattern that is "you") and reassembled.  Technically, they take you apart, and put you back together again _out of the same stuff_ - you are not actually _entirely_ different.  Every bit of you from the start reaches the destination.
> 
> Thomas Ryker (eventually using William T. Ryker's middle name) arose when his transporter beam interacted with a "distortion field".  To make this work in Trek physics, the information of his pattern was duplicated, and energy taken from that distortion field to provide the matter to reconstruct the second Ryker.
> 
> (this is from ST:TNG, episode "Second Chances")



So glad you beat me to this.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> valence?



Yeah, that, too.


----------



## Malmuria

If you think this discussion is toxic, I would recommend you stay away from the entire rest of the internet.


----------



## J.Quondam

Big _"I'm gonna go eat worms"_ energy.


----------



## Ryujin

Seeing a person that I made a hat for wearing it on the GaryCon livestream, on the GenCon Twitch channel, just managed to divert me from making a post on a forum where I mod, that wouldn't likely have ended well.


----------



## Parmandur

I'm astounded at how many people still buy and spread 16th century landowner propaganda defense the stealing of people's property and rights as "Progress."


----------



## Mad_Jack

Malmuria said:


> If you think this discussion is toxic, I would recommend you stay away from the entire rest of the internet.




 Wouldn't it be interesting if toxic conversations actually _were_ toxic, and those that engaged in them for long enough eventually succumbed and perished?


----------



## South by Southwest

Mad_Jack said:


> Wouldn't it be interesting if toxic conversations actually _were_ toxic, and those that engaged in them for long enough eventually succumbed and perished?



That would bankrupt Twitter.


----------



## Asisreo

Ah, so its _that_ kind of game...


----------



## Deset Gled

South by Southwest said:


> That would bankrupt Twitter.




Is that a pro or a con?


----------



## South by Southwest

Deset Gled said:


> Is that a pro or a con?



Pro. Definitely pro.


----------



## CleverNickName

My response to this morning's "hot mic" headline.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Parmandur said:


> You are literally not using any of those words in their proper meaning or valiance.



I'm sorry Parmandur, I literally don't know any other way to say:

I like pineapple on pizza.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Asisreo

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 154405



You shouldn't force anyone to drink tea. Unless they're in the UK, at which point, they were asking for it.


----------



## Cadence

Is creative mode in Minecraft viewed as easier than survival mode? (Not better, easier).  Is it a controversial opinion to say so?   Is hardcore mode actually a thing outside of threats to switch to it in unofficial graphic novels?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

_comes backs from trip

looks at threads 




_


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Is creative mode in Minecraft viewed as easier than survival mode? (Not better, easier).  Is it a controversial opinion to say so?



Creative mode is "easier" because you have access to all materials from the start. In Survival mode, you will spend significant time grinding just to get the basic materials to make things. For instance, to make any sort of Observer or other "smart block" for automatic farms, you need to get to the Nether for Nether Quartz, and you can't get to the Nether without a completed Portal, and Flint & Steel. I've made the Portal with lava while still in early game, but you need a Bucket to do that for which you need iron. It's more difficult than if you just put Obsidian blocks in the correct configuration from your infinite supply in Creative mode.


----------



## payn

Im too old to really know what Mindcraft even is.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Im too old to really know what Mindcraft even is.



I've learned that having a pre-teen is great for curing that.


----------



## el-remmen

Does anyone else have that masochistic urge to check back into threads that became a predictable garbage fire by the second page and are now 25, 30, 50 pages long?  

I do this out of a morbid curiosity of how far afield it has gone OR how deep the rut of repetition has become - but I always feel dirty afterwards even though I don't even TRY to read the whole thread, but just check out the last page or two to get a sense of that taste I hate.

It is the forum equivalent of taking a deep sniff after someone declares they farted in order to confirm it, despite not really wanting to smell that fart. But maybe the hard truth is that we do want to smell that fart. . . sigh.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> I've learned that having a pre-teen is great for curing that.




There are many, many games I will play with my kids, from D&D to Mario to backgammon to Fortnite.  But I have (so far) managed to completely refuse Minecraft.  My kids play it all the time, just not with me.  And the time this has saved me is immeasurable.  I recommend avoidance if possible.

And, yes, hardcore mode is definitely a thing.


----------



## Deset Gled

el-remmen said:


> Does anyone else have that masochistic urge to check back into threads that became a predictable garbage fire by the second page and are now 25, 30, 50 pages long?
> 
> I do this out of a morbid curiosity of how far afield it has gone OR how deep the rut of repetition has become - but I always feel dirty afterwards even though I don't even TRY to read the whole thread, but just check out the last page or two to get a sense of that taste I hate.
> 
> It is the forum equivalent of taking a deep sniff after someone declares they farted in order to confirm it, despite not really wanting to smell that fart. But maybe the hard truth is that we do want to smell that fart. . . sigh.




Sometimes, just sometimes, a thread will come back around.  IMX, this happens when the toxicity is caused by a small number of loud individuals who get themselves booted.  Then the rest of the thread can breathe easily again.  

...until the next fart.  You gotta get back in between farts.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> There are many, many games I will play with my kids, from D&D to Mario to backgammon to Fortnite.  But I have (so far) managed to completely refuse Minecraft.  My kids play it all the time, just not with me.  And the time this has saved me is immeasurable.  I recommend avoidance if possible.
> 
> And, yes, hardcore mode is definitely a thing.




I don't play it with him much (it's not as bad as the old Doom game, but it makes me nauseous).   I have learned a lot about it by osmosis though!


----------



## Gradine

Are you all in the UK okay?


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Are you all in the UK okay?



Nice, Popeyes way better than KFC. Well, except the sides are junk. Pro tip, just get the chicken and biscuits.


----------



## el-remmen

Bless their hearts.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> Nice, Popeyes way better than KFC. Well, except the sides are junk. Pro tip, just get the chicken and biscuits.



Just be careful of that spicy, spicy, ketchup


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Are you all in the UK okay?





"I love spicy foods like red curry or ketchup ...."


Dear god .....


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Im too old to really know what Mindcraft even is.



Digital Legos


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> Are you all in the UK okay?




With all that is wrong in the world, at least I can take small artery clogging comfort in that I live within 3.5 miles of a Popeyes and two Bojangles.  Why on earth anyone goes to KFC, Chick-fil-A, or Zestos (also within that distance) is completely beyond me.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> Sometimes, just sometimes, a thread will come back around.  IMX, this happens when the toxicity is caused by a small number of loud individuals who get themselves booted.  Then the rest of the thread can breathe easily again.
> 
> ...until the next fart.  You gotta get back in between farts.



And sometimes it takes a while before such people exhaust their supply of sock puppets. And then things heat up again once they have generated more.


----------



## CleverNickName

I spent a little bit of time in England a few years ago, before the pandemic.  The food I had was pretty good, I won't lie, but the only thing "spicy" I was able to find was the pub mustard.  There wasn't a single molecule of capsaicin anywhere to be found, and I was looking hard.

Which is _really weird_, for a country that claims Chicken Tikka Masala as the national dish.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I spent a little bit of time in England a few years ago, before the pandemic.  The food I had was pretty good, I won't lie, but the only thing "spicy" I was able to find was the pub mustard.  There wasn't a single molecule of capsaicin anywhere to be found, and I was looking hard.
> 
> Which is _really weird_, for a country that claims Chicken Tikka Masala as the national dish.



With all of the mentions of Vindaloo, I'm very surprised by this. Popeye's 'hot' chicken tenders, with Buffalo Sauce, barely give a tongue tingle.

_EDIT_ - Maybe the whole post is ironic?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I spent a little bit of time in England a few years ago, before the pandemic.  The food I had was pretty good, I won't lie, but the only thing "spicy" I was able to find was the pub mustard.  There wasn't a single molecule of capsaicin anywhere to be found, and I was looking hard.
> 
> Which is _really weird_, for a country that claims Chicken Tikka Masala as the national dish.




The Indian food that most British people eat is less spicy than the mild salsa at Taco Bell, IMO.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> Which is _really weird_, for a country that claims Chicken Tikka Masala as the national dish.




Chickent Tikka Masala is, in my experience, generally among the most mild things present on an Indian Restaurant menu.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> Im too old to really know what Mindcraft even is.



Nonsense. I'd never played Minecrapt until my then-girlfriend introduced me to it when I was in my 40s. It has an appeal that transcends age; it's just that young people have more time to build things, which helps -- some constructions are insanely labor-intensive.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Chickent Tikka Masala is, in my experience, generally among the most mild things present on an Indian Restaurant menu.



The yoghurt definitely takes the edge off any spices used in it.


----------



## Cadence

So, if we finally get a real cool system for making pineapple pizza, and someone alters it for making pepperoni pizza and that becomes really popular -- will that mean the pineapple pizza people will be mad they don't have something to call their own (besides the pineapple)?


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> So, if we finally get a real cool system for making pineapple pizza, and someone alters it for making pepperoni pizza and that becomes really popular -- will that mean the pineapple pizza people will be mad they don't have something to call their own (besides the pineapple)?




Humans will get mad over just about anything, so probably yes.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> So, if we finally get a real cool system for making pineapple pizza, and someone alters it for making pepperoni pizza and that becomes really popular -- will that mean the pineapple pizza people will be mad they don't have something to call their own (besides the pineapple)?



Someone seriously needs to make "Pizza Ninjas vs. Pirates."


----------



## Mad_Jack

Umbran said:


> Humans will get mad over just about anything, so probably yes.




 A lot of them get mad first and then go looking for things to blame it on.

And yes, in that example, people will almost certainly get mad because somebody took "their" thing, because they've heavily invested in it emotionally as part of their social identity.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _comes backs from trip
> 
> looks at threads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _



WELCOME HOME


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> Digital Legos



Lego. You heathen.


----------



## darjr

This punch though.








						I guess technique DOES matter.  Who knew 🤷🏼‍♂️
					






					youtube.com


----------



## Cadence

I'm kind of curious about how the discussions of changes-in/art-for/plays-styles in D&D and MtG would work in an alternate universe, where we switched who played what.   (Or are people just people?)


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> A lot of them get mad first and then go looking for things to blame it on.




Correct, but we can unpack that a bit.  In the usual case, this isn't intentional - it is a product of how human brains work.



Spoiler: A bit on neurology here...



Human brains have what is sometimes loosely called the "limbic system" - it is a group of structures that are tied to memory and emotion.  It is, among other things, responsible for engaging in fast judgements, to protect you from harm - the system that, based on just a little information, says, "Oh, crap!  Jaguar!" and the like.

This system tends to return results faster than your conscious, logical processes can.  And this is really good for you if there's a jaguar around.  Having established an emotional context, you can then very quickly sort through the results of the rational mind, to find one that fits.  It is highly efficient that way.

When you do that with written text, that has low risk to you and little or no time pressure, though, it tends to fail - your brain will sometimes establish your emotional response to the work seconds or even minutes before you actually finish reading the work - and material that is not consistent with the emotional response tends to get ignored, even if it contradicts the reason for the emotional reaction.



One of the best pieces of general fourm-dweller advice is, if you feel yourself getting mad while you are reading, stop reading, and walk away for 15 minutes.  Let that emotional reaction fade away, before you re-engage with the work in question.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> "I love spicy foods like red curry or ketchup ...."
> 
> 
> Dear god .....



"What did they put in this? *Black pepper?!"*


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> "What did they put in this? *Black pepper?!"*




What?

In American cuisine, black pepper is typically used only sparingly.  This can give us the impression that black pepper is _mild_.  It isn't at all. Indeed, it is used sparingly because it is potent stuff.  Used in modest quantities, black pepper can as easily overwhelm a dish as any other spice.


----------



## trappedslider

Game over man game over!


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> What?
> 
> In American cuisine, black pepper is typically used only sparingly.  This can give us the impression that black pepper is _mild_.  It isn't at all. Indeed, it is used sparingly because it is potent stuff.  Used in modest quantities, black pepper can as easily overwhelm a dish as any other spice.



Also, if you have ground pepper sitting on the table, it's probably stale and might not be as flavorful. Another reason many folks might think black pepper is mild.


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> What?
> 
> In American cuisine, black pepper is typically used only sparingly.  This can give us the impression that black pepper is _mild_.  It isn't at all. Indeed, it is used sparingly because it is potent stuff.  Used in modest quantities, black pepper can as easily overwhelm a dish as any other spice.




It's true, black pepper is _usually _used sparingly in Western dishes, but not always.  I've enjoyed foods that had so much black pepper on them that it was practically a breading....black pepper crusted tuna, black pepper crusted steak, black pepper crusted pork tenderloin.  I don't think they're particularly spicy; the dominant flavor I get is floral, maybe herbal. 

I'm not a chef or food scientist or anything like that, but I think the "hot" chemicals in black pepper must break down when cooked, leaving behind the more subtle flavors.  So black pepper is usually added sparingly to a raw salad, but can be added more generously to raw foods before cooking.  I'm not sure, this is just what I've observed from cooking.  It's equally possible that I just have a high spice tolerance.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> It's true, black pepper is _usually _used sparingly in Western dishes, but not always.  I've enjoyed foods that had so much black pepper on them that it was practically a breading....black pepper crusted tuna, black pepper crusted steak, black pepper crusted pork tenderloin.  I don't think they're particularly spicy; the dominant flavor I get is floral, maybe herbal.
> 
> I'm not a chef or food scientist or anything like that, but I think the "hot" chemicals in black pepper must break down when cooked, leaving behind the more subtle flavors.  So black pepper is usually added sparingly to a raw salad, but can be added more generously to raw foods before cooking.  I'm not sure, this is just what I've observed from cooking.  It's equally possible that I just have a high spice tolerance.




So, there's a lot that goes into how potent any given flavor is.  For example, when you ar crusting with pepper, you are typically using "cracked" pepper, rather than ground pepper.  Cracked pepper is far more coarse than ground - which means for the same weight of pepper, there's less _surface area_, which means less of the spice actually contacts your tongue, and less gets into your nasal passages, as compared to fine ground stuff.

As I understand it, the compound in pepper that we find "spicy" is fairly heat stable - it doesn't denature in cooking much.  However, it isn't particularly water soluble, either, so how potent it seems may depend on what's in the dish to make those compounds available to you to taste them.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Umbran said:


> What?
> 
> In American cuisine, black pepper is typically used only sparingly.  This can give us the impression that black pepper is _mild_.  It isn't at all. Indeed, it is used sparingly because it is potent stuff.  Used in modest quantities, black pepper can as easily overwhelm a dish as any other spice.



Once I misread my own handwriting on a recipe for kabocha squash soup and put in 4 tsp of pepper instead of 1/4 tsp.

It was very very peppery.


----------



## Cadence

Why are you sti...   You're not ne...   

Oh, this is your first time at this particular rodeo event isn't it.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Why are you sti...   You're not ne...
> 
> Oh, this is your first time at this particular rodeo event isn't it.



RIDE EM COWBOY


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> RIDE EM COWBOY


----------



## Gradine

Umbran said:


> What?
> 
> In American cuisine, black pepper is typically used only sparingly.  This can give us the impression that black pepper is _mild_.  It isn't at all. Indeed, it is used sparingly because it is potent stuff.  Used in modest quantities, black pepper can as easily overwhelm a dish as any other spice.



What?

Black pepper is excessively mild. Not as mild as that hot hot ketchup, sure, but I've tasted dishes ruined by excessive pepper and as unbearable as they are, they aren't especially _spicy_


----------



## prabe

Good black pepper, freshly-ground can be intense and complex. What heat there is isn't capsaicin, so it might not feel as burny, but it does have some oomph; and it doesn't take a lot to overdo it.


----------



## CleverNickName

Well now you guys have hoisted a craving on me.   Date Night is this Thursday, and I know a place that makes black pepper crusted tuna.


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> Good black pepper, freshly-ground can be intense and complex. What heat there is isn't capsaicin, so it might not feel as burny, but it does have some oomph; and it doesn't take a lot to overdo it.



I certainly learned that by example: there's good quality, low quality, and so-so quality in black peppers. The good ones can be very intense.


----------



## el-remmen

Confessions:

I like the 3E Book of Vile Darkness.

I use a lot of black pepper in my food (both cooking and added to taste afterwards).


----------



## RealAlHazred

@darjr , you got to use spoiler tags! Newb!


----------



## CleverNickName

"Come on guys, can't you let me be _just a little bit rude _to others?  I just want to treat people _slightly _rotten."


----------



## el-remmen

How I feel in threads sometimes.


----------



## billd91

Now listen up, son. Looks like, Ah say, it looks like troll weathah' has arrived early this yeeah.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> How I feel in threads sometimes.




OH MY GOD! Such a good show!


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> OH MY GOD! Such a good show!




See what I mean? Snarf ignores my feelings and comments on the show from which the GIF I chose to express those feelings instead.


----------



## payn

How I feel in threads all the time,


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> How I feel in threads all the time,




There are a few posters here whose every post is accompanied by the Curb Your Enthusiasm music playing in my head.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> See what I mean? Snarf ignores my feelings and comments on the show from which the GIF I chose to express those feelings instead.




Wait .... other people have feelings?


----------



## South by Southwest

I'm learning that if I just sit here and read long enough, the gap between what I _thought_ was happening in a thread and what's actually happening starts to close.

So yeah--there ya go.


----------



## Cadence

"But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void; and a guard is set for ever on those walls, and Eärendil keeps watch upon the ramparts of the sky. Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days"

- The Silmarillion

(I'm excited about the illustrated edition coming out this fall...)


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> "But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void; and a guard is set for ever on those walls, and Eärendil keeps watch upon the ramparts of the sky. Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days"
> 
> - The Silmarillion
> 
> (I'm excited about the illustrated edition coming out this fall...)



I've read I Ching/Tao Te Ching, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Dharmapada, Gilgamesh, various and sundry medieval myth collections, most of The Koran, and a goodly chunk of The Globe Illustrated Shakespeare (the hefty collection that Picard would occasionally wave around on ST:TNG). I _barely_ made it through a single pass of The Silmarillion.


----------



## J.Quondam

I can't help it. I adore the word _*beclown*_.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> I've read I Ching/Tao Te Ching, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Dharmapada, Gilgamesh, various and sundry medieval myth collections, most of The Koran, and a goodly chunk of The Globe Illustrated Shakespeare (the hefty collection that Picard would occasionally wave around on ST:TNG). I _barely_ made it through a single pass of The Silmarillion.



What about Joyce's Ulysses?  (I tried twice and didn't get far).

My paperback copy of the Silmarillion finally fell apart.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> What about Joyce's Ulysses?  (I tried twice and didn't get far).



That one I didn't even attempt


----------



## Umbran

J.Quondam said:


> I can't help it. I adore the word _*beclown*_.




It is a good word.


----------



## CleverNickName

What a strange poll.
"Which non-pineapple pizza topping has the best flavor?"


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> What about Joyce's Ulysses?  (I tried twice and didn't get far).
> 
> My paperback copy of the Silmarillion finally fell apart.



The _Silmarillion_ is probably my single favorite book in the world of fantasy. I've gone through three copies of it now, finally settling on a very sturdy and high-quality hardbound edition the binding of which has withstood even me.

If it comes to it, I'll buy it again.


----------



## payn

Never read _Silmarillion_ whats it like? 

(I liked Hobbit and Fellowship, thought two towers and return of the king sucked)


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Never read _Silmarillion_ whats it like?
> 
> (I liked Hobbit and Fellowship, thought two towers and return of the king sucked)



Mythological, historic, majestic,  and dark.  It has the old stories and tales mentioned in the Hobbit and LotR, and the stories of those who were old or gone by the time Elrond was born.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Never read _Silmarillion_ whats it like?
> 
> (I liked Hobbit and Fellowship, thought two towers and return of the king sucked)



Sort of like the Bible, or a 19th century collection of oral folk tales. Very dark, compared to the straight novels.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Never read _Silmarillion_ whats it like?
> 
> (I liked Hobbit and Fellowship, thought two towers and return of the king sucked)



I'd say there's a lot of _Beowulf_ in the _Silmarillion,_ but told in a way that's more accessible to the modern reader. I also think Cadence's description captures it well.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> What a strange poll.
> "Which non-pineapple pizza topping has the best flavor?"



Kimchi, natch


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> Sort of like the Bible, or a 19th century collection of oral folk tales. Very dark, compared to the straight novels.




I'd say sort of like the dryest, least readable portions of the Bible.

The stories are rich, and dark.  The prose?  Not so hot.


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> The prose?  Not so hot.



Well, it's *Tolkien*. One should set one's expectations appropriately.


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> Well, it's *Tolkien*. One should set one's expectations appropriately.




The Hobbit is perfectly readable.  The LotR is sometimes a bit dry.  The Silmarillion, much as I like it, is not so much dry as parched.


----------



## darjr

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> @darjr , you got to use spoiler tags! Newb!



Tick tick boom!


----------



## darjr

el-remmen said:


> There are a few posters here whose every post is accompanied by the Curb Your Enthusiasm music playing in my head.



Oh, sorry, I’ll turn it down.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> "But Morgoth himself the Valar thrust through the Door of Night beyond the Walls of the World, into the Timeless Void; and a guard is set for ever on those walls, and Eärendil keeps watch upon the ramparts of the sky. Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days"
> 
> - The Silmarillion
> 
> (I'm excited about the illustrated edition coming out this fall...)



The guard upon the walls grows weary in their long unending watch. Always Morgoth promises soothing for such heavy burdens.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> The guard upon the walls grows weary in their long unending watch. Always Morgoth promises soothing for such heavy burdens.



Does Morgoth also promise a happy ending?


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> I've read I Ching/Tao Te Ching, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Dharmapada, Gilgamesh, various and sundry medieval myth collections, most of The Koran, and a goodly chunk of The Globe Illustrated Shakespeare (the hefty collection that Picard would occasionally wave around on ST:TNG). I _barely_ made it through a single pass of The Silmarillion.



This is why I haven’t blocked you yet. We can’t be friendsz


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> Does Morgoth also promise a happy ending?



Oh, sorry, I’ll turn it down.


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> I'd say sort of like the dryest, least readable portions of the Bible.
> 
> The stories are rich, and dark.  The prose?  Not so hot.



Yeah, partially because large parts of the Silmarillion are summaries, combinations or rewrites by Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay of other, weirder texts, like extended narrative poems. Which is why the History of Middle Earth is there, with all the bizarre details and alternate versions.


----------



## Parmandur

Ryujin said:


> I've read I Ching/Tao Te Ching, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Dharmapada, Gilgamesh, various and sundry medieval myth collections, most of The Koran, and a goodly chunk of The Globe Illustrated Shakespeare (the hefty collection that Picard would occasionally wave around on ST:TNG). I _barely_ made it through a single pass of The Silmarillion.



I mean, it's not as dense as all that.


----------



## Cadence

"Looks at his own country in his lifetime...".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*WHY WON'T PEOPLE LET ME GRACEFULLY EXIT A CONVERSATION??!!!???!*


Oh .... wait. They don't have that power over me? I swear, one day I will remember that. After all, I've only been on the internet for (_thinks for a second_) .... oh no.


_I'm not going to remember this, am I? _


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _I'm not going to remember this, am I? _


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


>



Unlike the slap, which everyone will remember.


----------



## payn

Snarf is trying to find a new avatar and the ones that have been picked so far all remind me of animated version of the feral kid from _The Road Warrior _for some reason_._


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Snarf is trying to find a new avatar and the ones that have been picked so far all remind me of animated version of the feral kid from _The Road Warrior _for some reason_._




I miss the hatter one.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I miss the hatter one.




Have to change things up occasionally. 

...but yeah, I was partial to that avatar. Which is why I'm having trouble deciding on a new one.


----------



## BookTenTiger

There should be a game in which you only read Page 30 of a thread and then have to guess what the topic originally was.


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> Confessions:
> 
> I like the 3E Book of Vile Darkness.




I liked the 3E _BoVD_. I also liked the 3E _Book of Erotic Fantasy_.

They weren't all that _good_, but I liked them.


----------



## el-remmen

Mad_Jack said:


> I liked the 3E _BoVD_. I also liked the 3E _Book of Erotic Fantasy_.
> 
> They weren't all that _good_, but I liked them.




I never even saw a copy of the latter but the former has some interesting ideas in it that I still find useful. I'd actually be interested in at least paging through the latter because I find stuff that is transgressive and violates taboos interesting from an academic perspective.


----------



## Umbran

There are times when I hold my tongue and grit my teeth, for sake of giving someone the benefit of the doubt.

Then, there are times when that person finally says or does something that is so smarmy or condescending or un-sportsmanlike that I can stop grinding my teeth, because it is clear they do not deserve such benefit.  It is very relieving.


----------



## payn

Sorry.


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> I never even saw a copy of the latter but the former has some interesting ideas in it that I still find useful. I'd actually be interested in at least paging through the latter because I find stuff that is transgressive and violates taboos interesting from an academic perspective.




 Both books have interesting ideas but fell short of good implementation. Much like the _BoVD_, _Erotic Fantasy_ had some passable stuff in it that was interesting but extremely niche.
 As a very sex-positive and surprisingly mature text about the topic of introducing and playing more adult elements and topics (sexuality, sex, pregnancy, disease, fertility deities, etc.) in a fantasy rpg, it's a pretty good reference book. In particular, it contains some pretty good writing on the moral issues and psychological consequences of _charm_ and other mind-controlling spells.
 As a resource for actual crunch, there are stats for a couple of interesting monsters and a few magic items that I liked, and one or two rules modifications that are useful, but most of the charts, spells, feats, etc., were  A) unsurprisingly, far too niche for a game where more adult subject matter doesn't play a significant part, and/or B) just simply sort of boring or mechanically underwhelming even for a game more centered on those things.
 It's essentially like adding a bunch of Skyrim sex mods to your pen-and-paper D&D game. (You occasionally find one or two of them generally useful, but most of them require making a conscious choice to play a certain flavor of game.)
One of the ideas I did adopt from it was being able to wear magic rings in places other than on your hands, and to adopt an additional magic item slot that covers earrings, piercings and other body jewelry - it seems fairly logical to have a pirate have a magical earring, a minotaur with a magical nose ring or a shaman with an enchanted bone through their nose...


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Have to change things up occasionally.
> 
> ...but yeah, I was partial to that avatar. Which is why I'm having trouble deciding on a new one.



Can't go wrong with Catra


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Can't go wrong with Catra



Who?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Who?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## darjr

Ope! Sorry, I’ll turn it down.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Who?




Go watch some She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. It's so so good.


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> Go watch some She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. It's so so good.




Yeah, it is very good.  You can find it on Netflix.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Cadence

I like it when thread titles clearly let me know I should keep away!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



I tried the pilot. Im gonna stay out of the loop on this one.


----------



## Gradine

Damnit, now I have to re-watch the whole thing


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>




.....hugs!






I envy your upcoming re-watch ....


----------



## trappedslider

I am the machine that reveals the world to you as only I alone am able to see it.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> .....hugs!


----------



## Parmandur

Hey, the Whigs called, and they want their teleological historiography back.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Chef Boyardee Mini Spaghetti Rings & Meatballs for lunch again today, lads.

Every day we stray further from God's light.


----------



## el-remmen

There needs to be a term for threads started by people who only want to hear one pre-determined answer that aligns with their own position.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> There needs to be a term for threads started by people who only want to hear one pre-determined answer that aligns with their own position.




I mean .... sometimes people like to start threads in order to hear people disagree with them so that they can tell those people how wrong they are ... so there's that, too!


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> There needs to be a term for threads started by people who only want to hear one pre-determined answer that aligns with their own position.



Isnt that "+" threads?


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Isnt that "+" threads?




Naw. I don't think so. Anyway, at least in those threads no one is denying that they want to engage with something from the position of positive engagement. There is no low-key gaslighting claim that the OP is being super reasonable and open to disagreement.



Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean .... sometimes people like to start threads in order to hear people disagree with them so that they can tell those people how wrong they are ... so there's that, too!




Snarf, I didn't expect you to lower yourself to whataboutism. Sure, those threads exist as well, but I am taking about these specific thread types. But maybe your comment is not completely useless (I know, I'm shocked too) and can help us develop a terms that can capture both approaches. Something like "Obligatory Accord" and "Obligatory Discord."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> But maybe your comment is not completely useless




Are you trying to insult me???? 

Sir, I refuse to participate in any group that finds my contributions useful! 



el-remmen said:


> and can help us develop a terms that can capture both approaches. Something like "Obligatory Accord" and "Obligatory Discord."




I like those terms! If you ask me, I'd probably go with something more akin to Naïve Magical Surrealism. 

....because it has inscrutably cool words.


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> There needs to be a term for threads started by people who only want to hear one pre-determined answer that aligns with their own position.




Shoulda-been-a-blog-post?


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Shoulda-been-a-blog-post?



I'd go with "Validation Post."


----------



## Bolares

el-remmen said:


> There needs to be a term for threads started by people who only want to hear one pre-determined answer that aligns with their own position.



There is... they are called "threads"


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> There needs to be a term for threads started by people who only want to hear one pre-determined answer that aligns with their own position.



We should promote the [AWMO] tag.  Similar to the [+] tag you see in positive-only threads, a thread with the AWMO tag would let people know that they should Agree With Me Only in their responses.

It's brilliant!  What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## J.Quondam

I can't help it. Grammar excites me in sometimes awkward ways. [AWMO]


----------



## Jacob Lewis

el-remmen said:


> There needs to be a term for threads started by people who only want to hear one pre-determined answer that aligns with their own position.



Yes threads.


----------



## CleverNickName

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but these shadows are starting to look awfully familiar.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Maybe I'm just paranoid, but these shadows are starting to look awfully familiar.




Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you.


----------



## CleverNickName

~sigh

I know better than to bait the trolls.  Sorry about that.


----------



## darjr

Blah blah blah.

how about your bias is clear because it’s obvious you’ve picked a side?


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> ~sigh
> 
> I know better than to bait the trolls.  Sorry about that.



Yeah, me too. I'll stop.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Blah blah blah.
> 
> how about your bias is clear because it’s obvious you’ve picked a side?




I know!

Personally, I can't imagine any side other than MORE SUGAR FOR BREAKFAST.

And yet ... there are those who might argue against it.


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> There needs to be a term for threads started by people who only want to hear one pre-determined answer that aligns with their own position.





Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean .... sometimes people like to start threads in order to hear people disagree with them so that they can tell those people how wrong they are ... so there's that, too!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*What did we all agree to do?*
_Stop feeding the troll!_


*And what did we do?*
_.....we kept feeding it.........._


----------



## CleverNickName

Okay okay, I'll recant.


----------



## J.Quondam

It sometimes terrifies me how particular threads unravel in ways that uncannily parallel the real world.


----------



## Cadence

Gladius Dei super terram, cito et velociter.


----------



## darjr

But it makes stupid funny noises. Like it’s trying to talk?!?


----------



## Bolares

Ooooh, now I know what you all were talking about feeding the troll.... such a cheap bait... I'd have fallen for it too


----------



## Umbran

J.Quondam said:


> It sometimes terrifies me how particular threads unravel in ways that uncannily parallel the real world.




Yes, well, there's a myth of gamer exceptionalism - the idea that the hobby attracts people who are smarter, more thoughtful, and generally better than the population as a whole.

This myth is entirely false.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Yes, well, there's a myth of gamer exceptionalism - the idea that the hobby attracts people who are smarter, more thoughtful, and generally better than the population as a whole.
> 
> This myth is entirely false.



The same false bias exists in IT and academia.


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> The same false bias exists in IT and academia.



No it doesn’t!

does it?

naw!


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> No it doesn’t!
> 
> does it?
> 
> naw!



One of my co-workers thought that it would be a good idea to dispose of the mixed vegetables from his lunch in the staff washroom. Not in the toilet, mind you, but the urinal.

Over the years I have lost count of the number of professors who looked down on me, thinking that almost literally anyone could do my job, only to find out that their computer was "dead" because it was either unplugged, or the power bar was turned off.


----------



## darjr

I do have to say some of it goes the other way.

I heard a coworker say that academics don’t have to compete for their money and let me tell you funding is always constantly an issue and they in fact have to bust thier ass to compete for it.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Reaper's Bones 6 KS just started - I can't wait to read the comments section. I have a bucket of popcorn on one side of me and a bucket of soapy water on the other to wash the blood off my boots, lol.


----------



## billd91

darjr said:


> I heard a coworker say that academics don’t have to compete for their money and let me tell you funding is always constantly an issue and they in fact have to bust thier ass to compete for it.



It's one of the reasons academia politics and infighting are so vicious.


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> Reaper's Bones 6 KS just started - I can't wait to read the comments section. I have a bucket of popcorn on one side of me and a bucket of soapy water on the other to wash the blood off my boots, lol.



Ohhh I have never read the comment section of a Bones KS before...


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> Over the years I have lost count of the number of professors who looked down on me, thinking that almost literally anyone could do my job, only to find out that their computer was "dead" because it was either unplugged, or the power bar was turned off.




My wife who was an administrator in a couple of different academic departments at NYU calls it "PhD syndrome." The further along a person is in their field and specialization, the less capable they are of some common tasks and/or tact. Thus, a distinguished professor might not change their clothes for several weeks or forget that paper clips exist and then get very irritated at papers that don't stay together or run out of TP and rather than ask for or order more simply walk around with stinky ass.


----------



## darjr

I knew one professor who was stunned to learn that cigarette ash doesn’t just evaporate.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> My wife who was an administrator in a couple of different academic departments at NYU calls it "PhD syndrome." The further along a person is in their field and specialization, the less capable they are of some common tasks and/or tact. Thus, a distinguished professor might not change their clothes for several weeks or forget that paper clips exist and then get very irritated at papers that don't stay together or run out of TP and rather than ask for or order more simply walk around with stinky ass.



In one job, related to PC design, I worked with an absolutely brilliant engineer, who virtually did multi-layer board layouts in his head. He couldn't format a floppy disk to save his life and OS installations were beyond (beneath?) him.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I have never used the Laughing Emoji reaction to mock a post, because I firmly believe that it's just not okay to do that, but boy, have I gotten close to doing just that today. Multiple times.


----------



## darjr

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I have never used the Laughing Emoji reaction to mock a post, because I firmly believe that it's just not okay to do that, but boy, have I gotten close to doing just that today. Multiple times.



I wasn’t mocking. I admit I didn’t laugh with joy or agreement but with irony and incredulity.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

darjr said:


> I wasn’t mocking. I admit I didn’t laugh with joy or agreement but with irony and incredulity.



Sorry, I'm not trying to judge anyone. It's just my own personal "code" after I've had a few . . . sour experiences with other people using the reaction in a bad way. It's just something I personally strive for, while realizing that others might place the line somewhere else. (You know, someone who doesn't know what they're talking about ranting about protecting the legacy of D&D, or whatever nonsense.)


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I wasn’t mocking. I admit I didn’t laugh with joy or agreement but with irony and incredulity.



Yeah, I laugh react when I laugh IRL.


----------



## Bolares

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I have never used the Laughing Emoji reaction to mock a post, because I firmly believe that it's just not okay to do that, but boy, have I gotten close to doing just that today. Multiple times.



you are a better person than me... well... you *were. Come to the dark side*


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Bolares said:


> you are a better person than me... well... you *were. Come to the dark side*



Do you have free donuts? Oooh! Or bags of dice!?!


----------



## payn

I know folks only talk about comic movies here, but damn if it isnt sad about Bruce Willis.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mad_Jack said:


> Reaper's Bones 6 KS just started - I can't wait to read the comments section. I have a bucket of popcorn on one side of me and a bucket of soapy water on the other to wash the blood off my boots, lol.



I only did 1, 2, and 3, and then stopped because I _still_ haven't painted any minis for 30 years. Have they gotten contentious? I can't check them at work!


----------



## darjr

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I only did 1, 2, and 3, and then stopped because I _still_ haven't painted any minis for 30 years. Have they gotten contentious? I can't check them at work!



I’ll paint em. Send em to me.


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> I’ll paint em. Send em to me.



Well, let's see, we'll need the _Ever Given_ to handle a box of this size... divide by 2, carry the 1...


----------



## darjr

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Well, let's see, we'll need the _Ever Given_ to handle a box of this size... divide by 2, carry the 1...



Noooooo my yard isn’t big enough to have that run aground!


----------



## Bolares

The pain of unpainted minis is real! My beholder is sitting in it's gray glory on my desk for months as the session where I planned to use it was looming in. Now it's the next game I'm gonna play and I'm cursing past me for his laziness


----------



## RealAlHazred

Bolares said:


> The pain of unpainted minis is real! My beholder is sitting in it's gray glory on my desk for months as the session where I planned to use it was looming in. Now it's the next game I'm gonna play and I'm cursing past me for his laziness



In case anyone hasn't seen this short masterpiece, here you go: _Fifty Shelves of Grey_.


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> In case anyone hasn't seen this short masterpiece, here you go: _Fifty Shelves of Grey_.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I know folks only talk about comic movies here, but damn if it isnt sad about Bruce Willis.




Did he ever do anything after _Moonlighting? _He was charming in that!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Did he ever do anything after _Moonlighting? _He was charming in that!



...and here I thought you had an appreciation for action films.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Did he ever do anything after _Moonlighting? _He was charming in that!



We used to get together in highschool to watch Max Headroom and Moonlighting, and then do trig/analyt problem sets.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> We used to get together in highschool to watch Max Headroom and Moonlighting, and then do trig/analyt problem sets.



That must feel like a lifetime ago...


----------



## RealAlHazred

*Die Hard* is arguably one of the best Christmas movies of all time.


----------



## el-remmen

I backed a mini kickstarter that is supposed to fulfill in September. That's something like 130 more minis coming in all at once. As such (and because my wife and I are expecting in September as well, so you know, time for non-baby things will be limited), I have started a project to paint every single one of my unpainted minis by the due date.  So far I have painted 71 minis in 2022 (and am about to finish numbers 72 and 73) and have about 110 more to go.

Any mini that I get to that I just don't feel like painting goes into a giveaway box. So, play your cards right @darjr and I might send you a sampling of those.


----------



## darjr

el-remmen said:


> I backed a mini kickstarter that is supposed to fulfill in September. That's something like 130 more minis coming in all at once. As such (and because my wife and I are expecting in September as well, so you know, time for non-baby things will be limited), I have started a project to paint every single one of my unpainted minis by the due date.  So far I have painted 71 minis in 2022 (and am about to finish numbers 72 and 73) and have about 110 more to go.
> 
> Any mini that I get to that I just don't feel like painting goes into a giveaway box. So, play your cards right @darjr and I might send you a sampling of those.



Threats will get you nothing. Nothing I say!


----------



## darjr

OK!

I admit it.

I crave low-key drama.

Happy now?


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> I backed a mini kickstarter that is supposed to fulfill in September. That's something like 130 more minis coming in all at once. As such (and because my wife and I are expecting in September as well, so you know, time for non-baby things will be limited), I have started a project to paint every single one of my unpainted minis by the due date.  So far I have painted 71 minis in 2022 (and am about to finish numbers 72 and 73) and have about 110 more to go.
> 
> Any mini that I get to that I just don't feel like painting goes into a giveaway box. So, play your cards right @darjr and I might send you a sampling of those.



But don't get so caught up in your project that you accidentally paint the human mini baby.


----------



## Bolares

I feel the banhammer closing in...


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> I backed a mini kickstarter that is supposed to fulfill in September. That's something like 130 more minis coming in all at once. As such (and because my wife and I are expecting in September as well, so you know, time for non-baby things will be limited), I have started a project to paint every single one of my unpainted minis by the due date.  So far I have painted 71 minis in 2022 (and am about to finish numbers 72 and 73) and have about 110 more to go.
> 
> Any mini that I get to that I just don't feel like painting goes into a giveaway box. So, play your cards right @darjr and I might send you a sampling of those.




 Make sure you leave at least one mini unpainted until the others arrive - you know that when you finish painting all your minis, you die, right?...


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> Make sure you leave at least one mini unpainted until the others arrive - you know that when you finish painting all your minis, you die, right?...



I'm pretty sure I'm immortal then...


----------



## Bolares

In the end they were correct... getting banned is really easy... if you try hard enough


----------



## CleverNickName

To be fair, we all saw it coming.  But it was that sealion-ish "which exact rules am I breaking?" nonsense that sealed it for me.

Some folks are so preoccupied with looking for that line in the sand, that they forget to check behind them.


----------



## J.Quondam

Bolares said:


> In the end they were correct... getting banned is really easy... if you try hard enough



I wonder if they get a little sock-shaped tattoo with each ban?  They could have quite a collection.

edit: or maybe a free sandwich after getting 10 bans?


----------



## Bolares

CleverNickName said:


> To be fair, we all saw it coming.  But it was that sealion-ish "which exact rules am I breaking?" nonsense that sealed it for me.
> 
> Some folks are so preoccupied with looking for that line in the sand, that they forget to check behind them.



The thing is... the rules clearly prohibit using "snowflake" as a derrogatory term.


----------



## Bolares

J.Quondam said:


> I wonder if they get a little sock-shaped tattoo with each ban?  They could have quite a collection.



I'm not convinced that was a Lanasa sock puppet


----------



## J.Quondam

Bolares said:


> I'm not convinced that was a Lanasa sock puppet



Oh no! The vocabulary and punctuation rules this one out as a LaNasa sock, heh! 
But the tone and verbiage reminded me of some one or two other here-and-gone users that have drifted through in recent months.


----------



## Cadence

Are they actually different?


----------



## J.Quondam

J.Quondam said:


> Oh no! The vocabulary and punctuation rules this one out as a LaNasa sock, heh!
> But the tone and verbiage reminded me of some one or two other here-and-gone users that have drifted through in recent months.



And holy smokes!  After writing that, I think I've only just now grasped that the name of the "harengon"  race is a pun.


----------



## darjr

Oh you pernicious mobsters! Look what you’ve done!


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> And holy smokes!  After writing that, I think I've only just now grasped that the name of the "harengon"  race is a pun.



I played a Harengone and the session was very ouny


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> Some folks are so preoccupied with looking for that line in the sand, that they forget to check behind them.




There are those.  There are others who know darned well where the line is, and they think you are wrong in how you draw it, and want to make you admit it.


----------



## payn

If you already knew, why did you ask?


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> If you already knew, why did you ask?



I know, right?
I guess some people love hearing their own ideas repeated back to them.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> I know, right?
> I guess some people love hearing their own ideas repeated back to them.



But enough about me! What about you! Tell me, what do _you_ think about me?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> OK!
> 
> I admit it.
> 
> I crave low-key drama.




That’s the WORST kind of drama.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> OK!
> 
> I admit it.
> 
> I crave low-key drama.
> 
> Happy now?



admitting is the first step to healing.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> I know, right?
> I guess some people love hearing their own ideas repeated back to them.




You mean obligatory accord?


----------



## darjr

No apologies? Gah!


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That’s the WORST kind of drama.



Yeah, I miss him too


----------



## Gradine

In other news, I made it all the way through Trans Visibility Day despite having disadvantage on all my stealth checks


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Yeah, I miss him too



Strange, he feels so close sometimes...


----------



## trappedslider

and now i finally blocked someone


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> and now i finally blocked someone



Never seems to be if, but rather when.


----------



## eyeheartawk

It's Mini Micro Beef Ravioli today.


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> It's Mini Micro Beef Ravioli today.



Isn't modern technology a wonderful thing?


----------



## darjr

I dint think so! Not today evil!

oh? OK.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> and now i finally blocked someone




My use of the ignore/block feature has evolved over time. I used to use it mostly to keep out people that aggravated me. But I can't block all of Enworld!

Now, it's mostly about me.

I've found that the truly egregious and beyond-the-pale trolls tend to get themselves banned after a while, so I don't need to worry about them.

What I do need to worry about is when I get into it with someone. Maybe it's that person, maybe it's me. Who knows? Well, I mean, I know. It's always the other person. Right? But _theoretically in some possible alternate universe where I am not the Lizard King and correct about everything_, maybe it's me. Or maybe it's neither of us, and it's just a question of someone's blood getting all angered, either because of what's going on here, or what's going on in their real life.

So that's when I use ignore as kind of a forced time-out. Take a break from that person. To invoke Depeche Mode, sometimes you need to enjoy the silence, because words are trivial and feelings are intense.

And sometime later, I remove the ignore. Works great! As of this post, there are only two people I've ever had to perma-ignore because of ... well, let's just say their persistent ability to anger my blood. 

(Of course, everyone is different, and what works for me may not work for others.)


----------



## darjr

Oh SJG! You little scamps!

AF joke and profiting!


----------



## darjr

I work for a corporation!

so y’all better watch it!

mwuahahaha


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> My use of the ignore/block feature has evolved over time. I used to use it mostly to keep out people that aggravated me. But I can't block all of Enworld!



How could you block all EN Wolrders???


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Now, it's mostly about me.



Isn't everything?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I work for a corporation!
> 
> so y’all better watch it!
> 
> mwuahahaha


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> How could you block all EN Wolrders???


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> I dint think so! Not today evil!
> 
> oh? OK.



I prefer the quote from the 2010 movie "Super" - Shut up Crime!"


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> I prefer the quote from the 2010 movie "Super" - Shut up Crime!"



But I’m gonna do crime?


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> How could you block all EN Wolrders???



Well I dint like enough of you to block all of you, so.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> But I’m gonna do crime?











						Firefly Serenity GIF - Firefly Serenity Jayne Cobb - Discover & Share GIFs
					

Click to view the GIF




					tenor.com


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



There is a lie in here somewhere.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> But I’m gonna do crime?


----------



## darjr

My mantra for today:

Dint believe it till Tom Holland leaks it.


----------



## RealAlHazred

_sees troll_

Uh, I've switched baristas.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Firefly Serenity GIF - Firefly Serenity Jayne Cobb - Discover & Share GIFs
> 
> 
> Click to view the GIF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tenor.com





"All right, I'll go to hell! 
And I'll take up wickedness again, which is my line, bein' brought up to it. For a starter, I'll steal Jim out of slavery again. And, If I can think of somethin' worse, I'll do that too! Cuz as long as I'm in, and in for good, I might as well go whole hog!"
-Huck Finn, "Big River"


----------



## eyeheartawk

darjr said:


> But I’m gonna do crime?



"But Black Dynamite, I sell drugs in the comunity!"


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> "But Black Dynamite, I sell drugs in the comunity!"



Funny story about Black dynamite, a friend and co-worker was in a scene for the movie. At 24 seconds hes the guy on the left who backs away.


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> "But Black Dynamite, I sell drugs in the comunity!"



That does it! I'm on my way, but not without my theme music.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> My use of the ignore/block feature has evolved over time. I used to use it mostly to keep out people that aggravated me. But I can't block all of Enworld!
> 
> Now, it's mostly about me.
> 
> I've found that the truly egregious and beyond-the-pale trolls tend to get themselves banned after a while, so I don't need to worry about them.



I'm pretty sure the user isn't a troll, but his hate-watching post has reached the block user point.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> I'm pretty sure the user isn't a troll, but his hate-watching post has reached the block user point.




I hear you. There are shows (& movies) that I watch because they are "so bad that they're good," but I don't understand why someone would go full-on into hate-watching something. If you really don't like it, why are you watching it? 

At a minimum, _have a little fun._


----------



## darjr

Yea it’s a joke, but that doesn’t mean it’s false.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I hear you. There are shows (& movies) that I watch because they are "so bad that they're good," but I don't understand why someone would go full-on into hate-watching something. If you really don't like it, why are you watching it?
> 
> At a minimum, _have a little fun._



I think there is some level of _I dont get it help me understand it _in postings_._ Though, there are some folks that just want to pop a squat on something and never stop crapping. Folks tend to try and cut off the latter while also stopping the former.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I hear you. There are shows (& movies) that I watch because they are "so bad that they're good," but I don't understand why someone would go full-on into hate-watching something. If you really don't like it, why are you watching it?
> 
> At a minimum, _have a little fun._



Clearly you've never watched "Plan 9 Form Outer Space." Something can be so terrible that the hate comes 'round the other side and you can't take your eyes off it.

Besides....


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Funny story about Black dynamite, a friend and co-worker was in a scene for the movie. At 24 seconds hes the guy on the left who backs away.



That's awesome! Great film. Needs to be in the Criterion Collection.


----------



## Gradine

Gradine said:


> In other news, I made it all the way through Trans Visibility Day despite having disadvantage on all my stealth checks



Fun fact: I had to make this joke here because "stealth" means something totally different in standard trans discourse


----------



## RealAlHazred

If you see a post about the new DungeonCoin™ crypto token from DungeonFog, as in the email below:


> MAKING THE TTRPG WORLD WORK BETTER FOR ALL
> We are introducing DungeonCoin as a new blockchain platform for TTRPG players, mapmakers, and visionaries, with the tools and technologies required to create possibilities for the many, as well as the few, and bring about positive global change.



I would just urge you, before engaging, to look at the date.








						DUNGEONCOIN | Worlds first TTRPG Cryptocurrency - April fools
					

April fools: The first cryptocurrency for table top roleplaying games. Mine DungeonCoin and buy all assets and maps as NFTs and make even more money!




					www.dungeonfog.com


----------



## darjr

There is an actual crypto TTRPG company.

it’s one of the reasons, that when the meteor hits the earth breaking it into two, I’ll go “well, there you go”


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> There is an actual crypto TTRPG company.
> 
> it’s one of the reasons, that when the meteor hits the earth breaking it into two, I’ll go “well, there you go”


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> There is an actual crypto TTRPG company.
> 
> it’s one of the reasons, that when the meteor hits the earth breaking it into two, I’ll go “well, there you go”



But I wasn't talking about NuTSR! This is a _different_ company!


----------



## el-remmen

Why yes, I did completely re-write my response to that thread four times before clicking "Post reply." Why do you ask?


----------



## BookTenTiger

Why have fun when you can get angry instead?


----------



## payn

BookTenTiger said:


> Why have fun when you can get angry instead?


----------



## CleverNickName

I think I'm going to need a palette cleanser after this next Survivor: 5E round.  A brief intermission would be nice, before we dive into Egyptian, Norse, and Greek pantheons.  Something light and quick.

I'm thinking Cats vs. Dogs.


----------



## darjr

payn said:


>



I didn’t know Vivian made a music video!!!


----------



## CleverNickName

Cocktail recipe for the day

*Double Bourbon On the Rocks*
3 oz. bourbon
Ice

Combine in a rocks glass.
Suffer no fools, take no guff, etc.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Cocktail recipe for the day
> 
> *Double Bourbon On the Rocks*
> 3 oz. bourbon
> Ice
> 
> Combine in a rocks glass.
> Suffer no fools, take no guff, etc.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


>



Yes.  This is exactly the amount of guff I'm talking about.
None.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> I think I'm going to need a palette cleanser after this next Survivor: 5E round.  A brief intermission would be nice, before we dive into Egyptian, Norse, and Greek pantheons.  Something light and quick.
> 
> I'm thinking Cats vs. Dogs.



I don't think you could do it in 5E (at least, not without scouring dozens of questionable-quality third-party products and homebrew), but if you include _all _of official D&D flavors...

Blink Dog (MM, 2014)
Cheetah (MM2, 1983)
Cooshee (MM2, 1983)
Death Dog (FF, 1980)
Devil Dog (FF, 1980)
Displacer Beast (MM, 1977)
Foo Dog (MM2, 1983)
Hellcat (FF, 1980)
Hell Hound (MM, 1977)
Hound of Ill Omen (FF, 1981)
Jaguar (MM, 1977)
Leopard (MM, 1977)
Lion (MM, 1977)
Lynx, Giant (MM, 1977)
Moon Dog (MM2, 1983)
Nonafel (FF, 1980)
Smilodon (MM, 1977)
Tiger (MM, 1977)
War Dog (MM, 1977)
Yeth Hound (MM2, 1983)
And while there are a few edge cases included (displacer beast, moon dog, yeth hound), there are plenty more edge cases I excluded: tabaxi, lycanthropes, the Cat Lord, the Wild Hunt Hounds from DDG, etc.

EDIT: How could I forget the Wild Dogs (MM, 1977)? Also, Guardian Familiars (FF, 1980) exclusively take the form of black cats. The Caterwaul (also FF, 1980) might be a great cat, or maybe not, hard to tell from Russ Nicholson's artwork.


----------



## Parmandur

BookTenTiger said:


> Why have fun when you can get angry instead?



I reject your false dichotomy.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Parmandur said:


> I reject your false dichotomy.



HULK (have a) SMASH(ing good time)!!!


----------



## RealAlHazred

I've never had much interest in *Spelljammer*. I don't dislike it, but there's always been plenty of stuff that appealed to me more so that I never used my limited free time to try the setting.

Until just now, when I realized you could do a PC crew based on *Cowboy Bebop*.


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I don't think you could do it in 5E (at least, not without scouring dozens of questionable-quality third-party products and homebrew)


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


>



FWIW, I'm pretty sure most of the ones I listed have been done, if not officially then by other dudes on DTRPG. There's a *lot* of past-edition conversions on there, is what I'm saying.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I've never had much interest in *Spelljammer*. I don't dislike it, but there's always been plenty of stuff that appealed to me more so that I never used my limited free time to try the setting.
> 
> Until just now, when I realized you could do a PC crew based on *Cowboy Bebop*.




I never got into Spelljammer much either, although I really dug the Giff ever since I saw the old picture of the one dressed up in a military uniform with a monocle... 
I've always wanted to play a Giff with a monocle who uses a rifle and dresses and talks like a gruff 19th-Century British army sergeant, and call him Potamus Grimes. 
 "Potamus Grimes, late of His Majesty's 18th Rifles, at yer service, Madame..."


----------



## payn

Cold Cult is playing live tonight with the Minnesota Orchestra. This is an amazing event and you are in luck, its getting streamed live!


----------



## Cadence

And then I wonder if it is that bad being likened to Julie.  And then I have the theme song in my head.  It's too early to track down Isaac, isn't it?


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> I never got into Spelljammer much either, although I really dug the Giff ever since I saw the old picture of the one dressed up in a military uniform with a monocle...
> I've always wanted to play a Giff with a monocle who uses a rifle and dresses and talks like a gruff 19th-Century British army sergeant, and call him Potamus Grimes.
> "Potamus Grimes, late of His Majesty's 18th Rifles, at yer service, Madame..."



I only played in the Spelljammer universe for a few sessions. The DM dropped us in at something like level 6 and saddled me with some sort of symbiotic, anime-style armour. Can't remember what it was called. He was a bit of a Monty Hall DM and the campaign didn't last long.


----------



## darjr

Where does April fools day go? That’s right! It goes in the square hole!


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> Cocktail recipe for the day
> 
> *Double Bourbon On the Rocks*
> 3 oz. bourbon
> Ice
> 
> Combine in a rocks glass.
> Suffer no fools, take no guff, etc.



This is a great go-to recipe, though I usually skip the ice


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> This is a great go-to recipe, though I usually skip the ice



Ice is for Scotch. I take my bourbon neat.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## CleverNickName

Did he really just create a thread for the sole purpose of insulting people?
That's...certainly a _choice_.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Did he really just create a thread for the sole purpose of insulting people?
> That's...certainly a _choice_.



Sometimes a choice is a mistake.

I believe this is probably one of those times.


----------



## prabe

Unrelated: My answer to your question is too nuanced for Internet "debate."


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Sometimes a choice is a mistake.
> 
> I believe this is probably one of those times.



I tend to think of those as "poor choices" rather than mistakes, as you don't generally choose to make a mistake


----------



## Malmuria

it's funny to see people who usually are in lockstep agreement argue with each other for a change.  It's like some people have no capacity for a lowkey discussion among friends and must turn every situation into *conflict resolution*.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> I tend to think of those as "poor choices" rather than mistakes, as you don't generally choose to make a mistake



I call them "pour choices" as in you had too many and need to go home.


----------



## prabe

Your question, also, is one too nuanced for Internet Discussion.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

What the fudge is everyone griping about now?


----------



## darjr

Jacob Lewis said:


> What the fudge is everyone griping about now?



Not fudge. I think we’d be much happier.

Until the pineapple gets added.


----------



## South by Southwest

darjr said:


> Not fudge. I think we’d be much happier.
> 
> Until the pineapple gets added.



Have you ever had pineapple with fudge on it? It's pretty good...


----------



## darjr

One. Post.


----------



## Malmuria

but how do dms feel about players fudging?  Character design doesn’t stop when initiative is rolled, after all

(Literally typed this out in the another thread then realized someone might take it seriously)


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Malmuria said:


> Character design doesn’t stop when initiative is rolled, after all



I'm pretty sure this is a direct quote from Colville.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Malmuria said:


> but how do dms feel about players fudging?



I always tell my players at the start of any campaign:

If you feel the need to cheat, be my guest. I won't say a word. But in the end, I guarantee that I can always be the bigger, better cheater if I need to be.


----------



## payn

I could really go for a fudge brownie right now.


----------



## el-remmen

"Why even bother posting a thread when you know the result?"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> "Why even bother posting a thread when you know the result?"




I mean ... get the thread started, and then ....


----------



## RealAlHazred

Your internet debate is too nuanced for... wait a minute!


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean ... get the thread started, and then ....




If I could fudge in favor of getting rid of Snarf Zagyg would that be cheating and undermine the integrity of the game?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean ... get the thread started, and then ....



Extra long version in homage to incendiary forum threads.


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> If I could fudge in favor of getting rid of Snarf Zagyg would that be cheating and undermine the integrity of the game?



Dude! You mentioned "the game"! Now you've lost "the game"!

Crap! Now that I said that, I've _also _lost "the game"! Crap!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> If I could fudge in favor of getting rid of Snarf Zagyg would that be cheating and undermine the integrity of the game?




The key to getting rid of me is not to bait the trap with fudge, but with high-proof rum.


----------



## payn

Not sure what bothers me more... Folks who make wall of text paragraphs, or folks who refuse to make paragraphs at all?


----------



## darjr

el-remmen said:


> "Why even bother posting a thread when you know the result?"



Well maybe I can’t say?!


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Not sure what bothers me more... Folks who make wall of text paragraphs, or folks who refuse to make paragraphs at all?



I write entirely in windings.


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Not sure what bothers me more... Folks who make wall of text paragraphs, or folks who refuse to make paragraphs at all?



Paragraph.


----------



## darjr

eyeheartawk said:


> I write entirely in windings.



Wait?! That means I can read windings?! My superpower!! Finally!


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The key to getting rid of me is not to bait the trap with fudge, but with high-proof rum.



Yea, you drunk on the floor unable to walk isn’t my idea if “getting rid of you”


----------



## el-remmen

I can't help myself, some people's notions are just hilariously absurd, so instead of pointlessly engaging, I just use that laughing react emoji and move on.

Then again, sometimes I use that emoji because a person is being unintentionally funny without it being about the absurdity of their notions (like they talk about killing "players" when they mean characters or make an unintentional pun).  And other times I use that emoji because someone is trying to be funny and has succeeded.

So the question remains, if I used the  emoji to react to your post does that I mean I am laughing at you? 

Yes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> So the question remains, if I used the  emoji to react to your post does that I mean I am laughing at you?
> 
> Yes.


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> I can't help myself, some people's notions are just hilariously absurd, so instead of pointlessly engaging, I just use that laughing react emoji and move on.




While it isn't generally moderated... we really wish you'd not do that.  The emojis aren't there to mock people.


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> While it isn't generally moderated... we really wish you'd not do that.  The emojis aren't there to mock people.




I shall sincerely endeavor to be a better person.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I shall sincerely endeavor to be a better person.



So...So...So tempting...


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> I shall sincerely endeavor to be a better person.




And, of course, it isn't you, in particular.  It is a general you - posters broadly shouldn't be using it to mock folks.  We have on an occasion or two marked a habit and had to have a discussion with the poster about it.


----------



## J.Quondam

I wonder how many One True Ways there are.


----------



## Cadence

Couldn't help myself.


----------



## Umbran

J.Quondam said:


> I wonder how many One True Ways there are.




One million.

The one million and first is Badwrongfun.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> I wonder how many One True Ways there are.



Just one. Mine.


----------



## J.Quondam

Strange. I was certain it was closer to 4,112.


----------



## Gradine

Clearly it's 1337


----------



## darjr

Zero!

even mine is crap!


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> I wonder how many One True Ways there are.



Let's find out.

*1. Raw Mathematical Analysis*

Well, there are 212,919 words in the 5E Player's Handbook.  (This is down from 335,041 words in 3.5E PHB, and slightly more than 202,695 words in the 4E PHB.)[1]  Since about 40% of these words are polysemic (having multiple definitions, meanings, or interpretations),[2] with the average number of definitions being approximated at 7.8 senses per noun and 12.0 per verb[3], the number of One True Ways can be approximated as follows:

40% of 212,919 = 85,168
Average(7.8, 12.0) = 9.9 (since not all words are going to be nouns or verbs, we take the average)
Total interpretations possible = (212,919)+(85,168)^9.9
Total One True Ways = 6,452,631,195,230,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

It's a large number indeed, but it's still nowhere _near_ infinite (since infinity doesn't exist).

*2.  Practical Limit (Considering Boundary Conditions)*

The raw mathematical analysis ignores certain boundary conditions...particularly, the number of players and the amount of time required to play.

There are currently 7.9 billion people on Earth at this very minute[4].  Each person is capable of playing the game differently from the next person, since the raw mathematical analysis (above) indicates there is plenty of "room" for this to happen.

Most gaming sessions are between 2 and 5 hours long; let's assume the lowest value since it will return the highest result.  D&D 5E was released on August 19, 2014...or 2,785 days ago (counting today).

With 2-hour gaming sessions, each day has the potential of having up to 12 gaming sessions per person on earth:

(number of games per day)(number of days)(population of earth) = (12)(2,785)(7,900,000,000) = 264,018,000,000,000.

So even if everyone on earth played 5E D&D, and had played it constantly for every day since its release, and nobody never played the same way twice, there would be "only" 264 trillion versions to date.

*CONCLUSION: *
While there are more than 6.4E48 One True Ways to play 5E D&D, fewer than 264 trillion One True Ways have ever been tried.  (That's a half a drop of water out of _the entire Pacific Ocean.)_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> I wonder how many One True Ways there are.




There are exactly *TWO *true ways. No more, and no less.

To quote the greatest multi-class Philosopher/Bouncer, Dalton-
_It's my way, or the highway.





_


----------



## darjr

Road-trip!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Who could have predicted that engaging in a thread about a game supplement based on a major religion could possibly have negative karma consequences? I am shocked to hear there might have been infractions! Shocked!

I (mostly) stayed out of that thread for good reasons. A man's got to know his limitations.


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Who could have predicted that engaging in a thread about a game supplement based on a major religion could possibly have negative karma consequences? I am shocked to hear there might have been infractions! Shocked!
> 
> I (mostly) stayed out of that thread for good reasons. A man's got to know his limitations.



Yep.  Those threads go nowhere good, and arrive very quickly.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Yep.  Those threads go nowhere good, and arrive very quickly.


----------



## CleverNickName

I think I'll create a poll to measure how many people fudge the polls about fudging.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I think I'll create a poll to measure how many people fudge the polls about fudging.



SUNDAE!!!!


----------



## CleverNickName

Is it possible to roll on this table without fudging?


*d6**Result*1Peanut butter fudge2Salted dark chocolate fudge3Maple walnut fudge4Divinity fudge5Buckeye fudge6Candy-cane fudge


----------



## Gradine

Sometimes I didn't post in the thread because the thread didn't make it past the first half-page


----------



## Cadence

:::Lets large amount of time pass:::

That is my new nominee for most appropriate username ever!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> :::Lets large amount of time pass:::
> 
> That is my new nominee for most appropriate username ever!



I don't think it's such a clever nick name.


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I don't think it's such a clever nick name.



Few are, Liane.  Few are.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Few are, Liane.  Few are.


----------



## Cadence

Ah, there's someone whose figured out the rules for this event in the rodeo...


----------



## prabe

How do DMs feel about being frisbeed by the players? Inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## darjr

What is “frisbeed”?


----------



## billd91

darjr said:


> What is “frisbeed”?



Thrown on the roof and forgotten?


----------



## Gradine

darjr said:


> What is “frisbeed”?



It's a lot like being boomeranged but only going one way


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> What is “frisbeed”?



It's a different plaything turned into a verb. What it _means_ is A) open to interpretation and B) not really relevant to my point.


----------



## trappedslider

maybe i should make a new thread that's just about the john carter movie...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> maybe i should make a new thread that's just about the john carter movie...




Excellent! I need a place to discuss Jared Leto's method acting in _Morbius_!


----------



## darjr

None of that is likely to fix my ignorance. Thanks though!


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> It's a different plaything turned into a verb. What it _means_ is A) open to interpretation and B) not really relevant to my point.



I was wondering how he know about an incident in high school when I was DMing, two of my friends were screwing around, and one hit me in the head with a Frisbee.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> I was wondering how he know about an incident in high school when I was DMing, two of my friends were screwing around, and one hit me in the head with a Frisbee.




Do not ask the question if you don't want to know the answer.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Do not ask the question if you don't want to know the answer.



Purely rhetorical. I don't need, nor want a Lovcraftian brain melting incident.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> Purely rhetorical. I don't need, nor want a Lovcraftian brain melting incident.



That was the frisbee. Not all Lovecraftian monsters are "winners."


----------



## RealAlHazred

I can't understand how an author like Ed Greenwood, who has written literally millions of books in the Forgotten Realms, the most popular franchise of all time anywhere in the world, has only just now made, like, $1,000 on writing! It's criminal how the evil corporate overlords at T$R/WokeC have basically enslaved him in their writing mill! What a travesty!

What? No, I'm not affiliated with anybody else! That's absurd! These are just FACTS!


----------



## Umbran

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I can't understand how an author like Ed Greenwood, who has written literally millions of books in the Forgotten Realms, the most popular franchise of all time anywhere in the world, has only just now made, like, $1,000 on writing! It's criminal how the evil corporate overlords at T$R/WokeC have basically enslaved him in their writing mill! What a travesty!
> 
> What? No, I'm not affiliated with anybody else! That's absurd! These are just FACTS!




Can we keep the commentary a bit more circumspect, please?  If this becomes just direct commentary on active threads, it'll have to be closed.


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


> I was wondering how he know about an incident in high school when I was DMing, two of my friends were screwing around, and one hit me in the head with a Frisbee.



One time I was walking in the park, and I stood wondering why the frisbee looked like it was getting larger. Then, it hit me


----------



## CleverNickName

I get that math is a complicated subject, and that it requires practice to develop one's skill.  It's a lot like playing the piano: you can read sheet music all day, but if you don't sit on the bench and practice for hours you are never going to be a pianist.   BUT COME ON, PEOPLE.  This isn't differential calculus, this is a twenty-sided die.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I get that math is a complicated subject, and that it requires practice to develop one's skill.  It's a lot like playing the piano: you can read sheet music all day, but if you don't sit on the bench and practice for hours you are never going to be a pianist.   BUT COME ON, PEOPLE.  This isn't differential calculus, this is a twenty-sided die.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> Can we keep the commentary a bit more circumspect, please?  If this becomes just direct commentary on active threads, it'll have to be closed.



Sorry. It was just such a bizarre comment I was overcome with awe. I will try to practice restraint.


----------



## Cadence

Is it crazy to say Roger Daltrey's "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me" remake on the Lost Boys Soundtrack is better than any of Elton John's versions.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Is it crazy to say Roger Daltrey's "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me" remake on the Lost Boys Soundtrack is better than any of Elton John's versions.



I had to go and listen to it because I totally don't remember this song in the Lost Boys. On final assessment: crazy? No. Wrong? Yes.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Is it crazy to say Roger Daltrey's "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me" remake on the Lost Boys Soundtrack is better than any of Elton John's versions.



No more crazy than saying Bowie's cover of _Hard to be a Saint in the City_ by the Boss is.


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> Is it crazy to say Roger Daltrey's "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me" remake on the Lost Boys Soundtrack is better than any of Elton John's versions.



Not a bit. I think some cover versions are better than the originals. I very much prefer "Raspberry Beret" as covered by the Hindu Love Gods to Prince's version. It has a much stronger groove to it.
That's part of the beauty of covers - people put their own spin on it. Sometimes it's lame, other times sublime.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> No more crazy than saying Bowie's cover of _Hard to be a Saint in the City_ by the Boss is.




I guess I should go listen to those...


----------



## trappedslider

i resisted the urge to make a remark about the corporate history of IBM among others, the fact that some companies still make money off of Lovecraft....but it would have caused the thread to be locked and me with a temp ban or a ban from the thread.

anyway:

If all the worlds a stage, then this play sucks. I want a refund.


----------



## Gradine

I mean, "Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me" is Elton John's magnum opus, in my not particularly humble opinion, and he sells every second of it.

If you want a cover that is genuinely miles better than the original, might I suggest NiN's "Hurt" as sung by Johnny Cash?


----------



## Gradine

All due to respect to Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana, of course


----------



## Cadence

I totally don't understand.  But if I comment I have a feeling I still won't, and it will just spend time.  (<- not about music!)


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Not a bit. I think some cover versions are better than the originals. I very much prefer "Raspberry Beret" as covered by the Hindu Love Gods to Prince's version. It has a much stronger groove to it.
> That's part of the beauty of covers - people put their own spin on it. Sometimes it's lame, other times sublime.



I much prefer the Tom Jones/Art of Noise version of "Kiss" to Prince's also.


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> One time I was walking in the park, and I stood wondering why the frisbee looked like it was getting larger. Then, it hit me



During the filming of season 1 of the web series "JourneyQuest" they had to shoot around a bunch of disk golf playing dude-bros, who kept trying to spoil the shots.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I get that math is a complicated subject, and that it requires practice to develop one's skill.  It's a lot like playing the piano: you can read sheet music all day, but if you don't sit on the bench and practice for hours you are never going to be a pianist.   BUT COME ON, PEOPLE.  This isn't differential calculus, this is a twenty-sided die.



Try explaining to some why the average roll on a D20 is 10.5, then get back to me. Explaining calculus seems simple by comparison


----------



## CleverNickName

The Tom Jones/Cardigans cover of "Burning Down the House" is pretty good, too.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Not a bit. I think some cover versions are better than the originals. I very much prefer "Raspberry Beret" as covered by the Hindu Love Gods to Prince's version. It has a much stronger groove to it.




Johnny Cash - covering "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails.  When, in praise of the cover, the original artist says, "that song isn't mine any more," you know you've hit it out of the park.


----------



## Gradine

_sigh_

There's going to be a whole thread for the Fantastic Beasts movie, and I'm not going to be allowed within 10 miles of it, and there's nothing I can really do about that, is there?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> _sigh_
> 
> There's going to be a whole thread for the Fantastic Beasts movie, and I'm not going to be allowed within 10 miles of it, and there's nothing I can really do about that, is there?




Are they still making those?

Huh. They probably shouldn't.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Are they still making those?
> 
> Huh. They probably shouldn't.



I mean, they kind of sucked...?


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> I mean, they kind of sucked...?



Is anyone surprised by this?


----------



## South by Southwest

Umbran said:


> Johnny Cash - covering "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails.  When, in praise of the cover, the original artist says, "that song isn't mine any more," you know you've hit it out of the park.



Yep. Aretha Franklin did the same thing with "Respect." It got to where almost no one listens to Redding's original version anymore.

And Cash's cover of "Hurt"--wow, what a performance!


----------



## Gradine

Parmandur said:


> I mean, they kind of sucked...?





Snarf Zagyg said:


> Are they still making those?
> 
> Huh. They probably shouldn't.



I mean, somebody's got to fund the war against trans kids ><


----------



## eyeheartawk

Gradine said:


> I mean, somebody's got to fund the war against trans kids ><



You all notice how Katherine Waterston said something relatively mildly critical of Rowling and then suddenly is nowhere in the commercials, or posters.

Pepperidge Farms remembers.


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> I mean, they kind of sucked...?




The first one wasn't bad.  I saw it before I learned of her particular positions.


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> The first one wasn't bad.  I saw it before I learned of her particular positions.



Same here, but I didn't really care for it. The second one is a dumpster fire (thank you, the library).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> I mean, somebody's got to fund the war against trans kids ><




Well, setting aside the very debatable merits of that franchise, it gets to tough issue. The interconnectedness of everything.

I mean ... think of the following three situations:

A. A person buys a ticked to whatever stupid thing is being released in the Fantastic Beast Potter something or other movies.

B. You go get your COVID vaccination from a Publix (a supermarket).

C. You get gas at a Valero gas station.

These seem unrelated, but they're not. A you probably recognize. B relates to one of biggest supporters of the governor of Florida. C relates to one of the biggest supporters of the governor of Texas. 

It's really hard to be ethical. And while I share your belief re: A, it's not just about her (she who will not be named). It's also about the cast (Eddie Redmayne- who made notable statement in support of the trans community, Jude Law etc.) and the crew and so on.

But I totally understand your P.O.V. The perfect is the enemy of the good.


----------



## Gradine

eyeheartawk said:


> You all notice how Katherine Waterston said something relatively mildly critical of Rowling and then suddenly is nowhere in the commercials, or posters.



Nice to see Sam raising a good one


----------



## eyeheartawk

Gradine said:


> Nice to see Sam raising a good one



I'm just glad he protected her from the robots.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Are they still making those?



Yes, unfortunately. There's going to be_ 5_ of them. This is the third. 

I personally enjoyed the first movie, but the second was a mess. After how bad the second one was and the whole stuff about J.K. Rowling in the past couple years, I'm not going to see this one. At least, I'm not going to pay extra to watch it. If it comes to one of the streaming services I have, I might _eventually_ watch it.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's really hard to be ethical. And while I share your belief re: A, it's not just about her (she who will not be named). It's also about the cast (Eddie Redmayne- who made notable statement in support of the trans community, Jude Law etc.) and the crew and so on.



Yes yes, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. I still think there's a distinction between "purchasing a necessity that, through a complex layer of back channels, lines the pockets of somebody horrible somewhere" and "going to see a movie that directly profits the world's most powerful advocate against trans rights"

Promotions for H*rry P*tter content are microaggressions


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yes, unfortunately. *There's going to be 5 of them*. This is the third.
> 
> I personally enjoyed the first movie, but the second was a mess. After how bad the second one was and the whole stuff about J.K. Rowling in the past couple years, I'm not going to see this one. At least, I'm not going to pay extra to watch it. If it comes to one of the streaming services I have, I might _eventually_ watch it.





WHAT???????

Who decided that? The genius who said, "Hey, remember that Hobbit book? We should make it into THREE movies. Because REASONS!"


(Note- "Reasons" is _Hollywood Speak _for $$money$$.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Yes yes, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. I still think there's a distinction between "purchasing a necessity that, through a complex layer of back channels, lines the pockets of somebody horrible somewhere" and "going to see a movie that directly profits the world's most powerful advocate against trans rights"
> 
> Promotions for H*rry P*tter content are microaggressions




Fair enough, although (and I hate to say this) I don't think She Who Shall Not Be Named is _the most powerful_ scumbag ... um, advocate against human rights.


----------



## payn

I'm actually extra glad now that I have not read any Harry Potter and only seen the first movie. Like Pokémon, I was just a little too old to get into it, and since I don't have kids, never went back for it.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Yes yes, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. I still think there's a distinction between "purchasing a necessity that, through a complex layer of back channels, lines the pockets of somebody horrible somewhere" and "going to see a movie that directly profits the world's most powerful advocate against trans rights"
> 
> Promotions for H*rry P*tter content are microaggressions



I get that: the extra topping on that to be egregious is that it also sucks. Like, the stuff isn't good.


----------



## Gradine

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm just glad he protected her from the robots.



Apparently he walked in, nailed it in one completely stone-faced, and left. An absolute legend


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> I'm actually extra glad now that I have not read any Harry Potter and only seen the first movie. Like Pokémon, I was just a little too old to get into it, and since I don't have kids, never went back for it.



They were always overrated.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> WHAT???????
> 
> Who decided that? The genius who said, "Hey, remember that Hobbit book? We should make it into THREE movies. Because REASONS!"
> 
> (Note- "Reasons" is _Hollywood Speak _for $$money$$.)



Exactly. It's just about the money. The first movie had decent enough reception, but these most recent two have absolutely awful reviews. They don't care about making quality movies, they just care about the money. They're just monetizing nostalgia in order to get millions of more dollars for the already super rich Warner Bros. corporation and transphobic billionaire J.K. Rowling.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> I'm actually extra glad now that I have not read any Harry Potter and only seen the first movie. Like Pokémon, I was just a little too old to get into it, and since I don't have kids, never went back for it.



I dodged it at first, then came to it as my partner was a fan, mostly through the movies. Started showing them to my kid/playing the Lego HP games with her when she started making her claim to become queen of TERF island. I wasn't even out yet.

Pokemon, on the other hand, was and remains _choice_


----------



## trappedslider

"We can only recognize his flaws, and enjoy those parts of his work that do appeal to us: his fantastical imagination and worlds" 

I feel this statement works for a lot of creators views i disagree with.


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> "We can only recognize his flaws, and enjoy those parts of his work that do appeal to us: his fantastical imagination and worlds"
> 
> I feel this statement works for a lot of creators views i disagree with.



It feels better when I don't feel like I'm giving them money though.


----------



## Cadence

Speaking of Endless


----------



## Gradine

trappedslider said:


> "We can only recognize his flaws, and enjoy those parts of his work that do appeal to us: his fantastical imagination and worlds"
> 
> I feel this statement works for a lot of creators views i disagree with.



That works great for crappy dead dudes and literally anyone else who isn't using their considerable platform and influence to contribute serious harm to people just trying to live their lives (like, literally yesterday, and the day before that, and the day before that...)


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's really hard to be ethical. And while I share your belief re: A, it's not just about her (she who will not be named). It's also about the cast (Eddie Redmayne- who made notable statement in support of the trans community, Jude Law etc.) and the crew and so on.




It has been made slightly easier to make the choice, given that she has said that she considers the continuing patronage of fans to be statements of agreement with her position.  Her work simply isn't _that good_ to have me send a signal that I agree with her.

Eddie Redmayne and Jude Law will have other roles I can enjoy.  The folks in the cast who get paid based on gross ticket sales have already earned more than I ever will.  Those who don't get paid based on gross have already been paid, and will not be at all harmed by my choosing not to see a film.  Ergo, there's no ethical _harm_ from choosing to not see it.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> It has been made slightly easier to make the choice, given that she has said that she considers the continuing patronage of fans to be statements of agreement with her position.




I missed that...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> It has been made slightly easier to make the choice, given that she has said that she considers the continuing patronage of fans to be statements of agreement with her position.




!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_I did not know that_. Wow. Well, that makes things REALLY EASY.

(Also making it easy? Never a big fan. As sad as it is to say, it's easier to do the right thing when you're not giving much up.)


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> _I did not know that_. Wow. Well, that makes things REALLY EASY.



Yep.  I don't usually make those kinds of decisions quickly or easily, but this one was a rare exception.  I flushed that toilet and walked away.


----------



## trappedslider

Feel like I'm gonna need another I didn't comment thread


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> _I did not know that_. Wow. Well, that makes things REALLY EASY.
> 
> (Also making it easy? Never a big fan. As sad as it is to say, it's easier to do the right thing when you're not giving much up.)




Yeah - I don't have a linkable quote on that, I'm afraid, but my wife follows such things more closely than I, and I trust her when she tells me about them.


----------



## trappedslider

It's a very slippery slope when you start boycotting, do you just boycott the one thing or do you boycott the whole company and everything related and how far down the money road are you willing to go?


----------



## trappedslider

So getting away from that mess,I'm currently in the ER due to asthma and there was a crime scene tech here.


----------



## Gradine

She has repeatedly insisted that the "vast majority" of her fans, I've seen her claim up to 90%, agree with her. 

There isn't really a moral grey area here.


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> It's a very slippery slope when you start boycotting, do you just boycott the one thing or do you boycott the whole company and everything related and how far down the money road are you willing to go?



Depends on the issue, and it depends on how close you are to it, and how much of a sacrifice you can responsibly make.  Nobody can tell you who to boycott, or when, or how.  It's not so much a "slippery slope" as it is an optimization problem: how can your spending dollars have as much of an impact as possible, without causing harm to those uninvolved.



Spoiler



For my part:  I will not support JKR directly (by buying her books) or indirectly (by following her on social media, or visiting the HP attraction at The Happiest Place On Earth, etc.)  Boycotting her publisher is an option, but she's just one author that works for them and my boycott might hurt a lot of other writers...so instead, I write emails and leave comments on her publisher's website informing them of her antics and explaining why I won't be buying anything with her name on it.  (I've sent six so far.)  But anyway.  The point is a boycott will look different from person to person.


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> It's a very slippery slope when you start boycotting, do you just boycott the one thing or do you boycott the whole company and everything related and how far down the money road are you willing to go?




It depends on what you want to achieve.


----------



## Gradine

Every book, game, movie ticket sold *directly *contributes to the encouragement of legal efforts to promote trans conversion therapy and criminalizing trans kids' bodies (and parents who dare to be supportive!). This isn't a post-capitalist nightmare shell company shell game, it's not a _Good Place _impossible dilemma; it's a direct 1:1 relationship. See a movie, hurt a trans kid. 

I suppose that's up to every person to decide if that's worth getting to see Eddie Redmans' exploits traipsing around in increasingly poorly constructed Wizard land or not.


----------



## trappedslider

It also brings up the age old debate about separating the creator from the created.

I have a number of gay friends who love the books that Orson Scott Card has written but they don't like his views about how they live their lives.


----------



## trappedslider

On the other end I have one friend who is refusing to buy anything with even the hint of being made in Florida due to the recent bill.


----------



## Gradine

There is also a difference between personal beliefs and open and direct advocacy and activism. I also think some of ya'll are deeply underestimating the amount of cultural cachet that JKR has. She has already caused *significantly *more harm to people (and especially innocent kids, please do not forget these are largest target here) that Card ever could or will. And that won't stop while her franchise (and therefore she) is still relevant.


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> It's a very slippery slope when you start boycotting, do you just boycott the one thing or do you boycott the whole company and everything related and how far down the money road are you willing to go?



Or the slope the other way where you never boycott anything no matter how heinous?


----------



## trappedslider

So I guess I should throw away and tell some people not to buy Battlefield Earth despite it being a decent imo book.


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> So I guess I should throw away and tell some people not to buy Battlefield Earth despite it being a decent imo book.



I mean...that's what _I _did, but you do you.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> So I guess I should throw away and tell some people not to buy Battlefield Earth despite it being a decent imo book.



Bought it. Laughed at how tropely the tropes of the tropes were. Never looked at it again, but relayed what I read to friends.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> So I guess I should throw away and tell some people not to buy Battlefield Earth despite it being a decent imo book.



We need to get you an alternative recommended reading list stat!


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> I mean...that's what _I _did, but you do you.



What about the companies like coolstuffinc they operate in Florida and as far as I know they haven't released a statement about the "don't say gay" bill, do I boycott them or what?


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Bought it. Laughed at how tropely the tropes of the tropes were. Never looked at it again, but relayed what I read to friends.



I honestly enjoy it due to it's ham and cheese nature.


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> What about the companies like coolstuffinc they operate in Florida and as far as I know they haven't released a statement about the "don't say gay" bill, do I boycott them or what?



Like I said upthread:  nobody can tell you who to boycott, or when, or how.


----------



## Gradine

Of course you don't financially support Scientologists. We've all seen the documentaries by now. I feel like that should be a given. Is that not a given?


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> Of course you don't financially support Scientologists. We've all seen the documentaries by now. I feel like that should be a given. Is that not a given?



Which is why the movie tanked. (OK, it was also abysmal crap.)


----------



## South by Southwest

Am I the only DM who thinks there are too many sub-classes, races, and sub-races for players to choose among nowadays?

Player: _I'm going to play an elven cleric._
Me: _Cool. Which kind of elf is she: high elf, wood elf, or one of those crazy drow?_
Player: _Oh, no, she's an astral Moon Unit (Zappa) elf who, as a racial trait, can teleport 30' in any direction once every short rest, and I'm going to play her as a Way of the Setting Sun cleric who gains an extra 2d8+WIS temporary HP every time she uses this ability, so this way I can play her as a tank gish even though her official purpose is to serve as the party's healer. Neat, huh?_

This is the kind of thing that sends me to the liquor cabinet.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> So I guess I should throw away and tell some people not to buy Battlefield Earth despite it being a decent imo book.



One thing I want to comment on is getting rid of and/or destroying stuff. They already have your money so burning your Nikes or smashing your Keurig doesn't hurt them. In fact, it probably helps them because in the future they will have either changed and your back on board, or you aint angry anymore and want a cup of coffee.


----------



## billd91

South by Southwest said:


> Am I the only DM who thinks there are too many sub-classes, races, and sub-races for players to choose among nowadays?
> 
> Player: _I'm going to play an elven cleric._
> Me: _Cool. Which kind of elf is she: high elf, wood elf, or one of those crazy drow?_
> Player: _Oh, no, she's an astral Moon Unit (Zappa) elf who, as a racial trait, can teleport 30' in any direction once every short rest, and I'm going to play her as a Way of the Setting Sun cleric who gains an extra 2d8+WIS temporary HP every time she uses this ability, so this way I can play her as a tank gish even though her official purpose is to serve as the party's healer. Neat, huh?_



That is *SO *tubular, fer sure!


----------



## trappedslider

Gradine said:


> Of course you don't financially support Scientologists. We've all seen the documentaries by now. I feel like that should be a given. Is that not a given?



What about those that enable them? A lot of cable/satellite providers carry the Scientology channel (not counting all of the Hollywood movie/music stars who belong) just like NBC universal channels show the Harry Potter movies and I believe HBO Max currently has the streaming rights should they be dumped or is it just the direct connection?


----------



## trappedslider

South by Southwest said:


> Am I the only DM who thinks there are too many sub-classes, races, and sub-races for players to choose among nowadays?
> 
> Player: _I'm going to play an elven cleric._
> Me: _Cool. Which kind of elf is she: high elf, wood elf, or one of those crazy drow?_
> Player: _Oh, no, she's an astral Moon Unit (Zappa) elf who, as a racial trait, can teleport 30' in any direction once every short rest, and I'm going to play her as a Way of the Setting Sun cleric who gains an extra 2d8+WIS temporary HP every time she uses this ability, so this way I can play her as a tank gish even though her official purpose is to serve as the party's healer. Neat, huh?_
> 
> This is the kind of thing that sends me to the liquor cabinet.



But is it balanced? I always played half-elf with part of an ear missing


----------



## South by Southwest

trappedslider said:


> But is it balanced? I always played half-elf with part of an ear missing



_"I walked the woods upon a Starry Night..."_


----------



## Cadence

Now you, you have definitely been to this rodeo before! (Not about this thread).


----------



## trappedslider

so, nerds...can't live with them can't live without them 









						Marvel fans say Avengers: Infinity War is ‘ruined’ after spotting filming blunder
					

Clip from the 2018 blockbuster went viral on social media




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Gradine

Took a nice walk to make sure I didn't post anything too snarky that would get me booted from the thread. Where else would I even post? The Survivor threads? I don't even like Jeff Probst!

Remember everyone, slippery slopes are a fallacy never logically follow, and nothing good comes from engaging in them.




Also protect trans kids


----------



## trappedslider

Lines in sands are always moving unless you make a line in cement.

Some good geeky news 2 missing Charles Darwin notebooks are mysteriously returned more than 20 years later


----------



## Gradine

e2: This is why I won't be allowed near the inevitable Fabulous Menagerie movie thread


----------



## trappedslider

Gradine said:


> Yep, minor hair continuity mistakes and pushing for trans conversion therapy are _exactly the same things_, thank you for opening my eyes
> 
> e: The walk didn't help after all ><



I'm sorry my ADHD brain jumps from topic to topic like a Mexican jumping bean on caffeine

EDIT: oh and I'm back at home now..stupid asathma.


----------



## Gradine

trappedslider said:


> I'm sorry my ADHD brain jumps from topic to topic like a Mexican jumping bean on caffeine



No fair, my neurodivergent brain can't take swerves that sharp!


----------



## South by Southwest

trappedslider said:


> I'm sorry my ADHD brain jumps from topic to topic like a Mexican jumping bean on caffeine
> 
> *EDIT: oh and I'm back at home now..stupid asathma.*



Glad to read you're doing better. The hospital stay sounded kinda lively.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hey, I'm on Team ADHD also!


----------



## Gradine

In any case, if you're trying to get me to define a single, simple, one-size-fits-all solution, you're going to be disappointed. A complex world requires complex, moment-to-moment decisions. Specifically, decisions that are inherently personal.

H*rry P*tter just happens to give us the most clear cut example of a 1:1 direct relationship of evil; a franchise whose earnings go directly to fund a person who is directly pushing for very bad things to happen to already very vulnerable trans kids. I can't make anyone decide that that isn't worth going to see a dumb wizard movie over, but I feel like the case in this instance couldn't be any clearer.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Hey, I'm on Team ADHD also!



Ditto. And ASD.


----------



## RealAlHazred

South by Southwest said:


> Player: _I'm going to play an elven cleric._
> Me: _Cool. Which kind of elf is she: high elf, wood elf, or one of those crazy drow?_
> Player: _Oh, no, she's an astral Moon Unit (Zappa) elf who, as a racial trait, can teleport 30' in any direction once every short rest, and I'm going to play her as a Way of the Setting Sun cleric who gains an extra 2d8+WIS temporary HP every time she uses this ability, so this way I can play her as a tank gish even though her official purpose is to serve as the party's healer. Neat, huh?_



_sigh_

Where even to begin? The moon unit elf's racial trait is a 25' teleport once every short rest. Way of the Setting Sun is a monk subclass, not cleric. And the Way of the Setting Sun monk's Refreshing Rays ability (which is the one that gives temporary hp) is proficiency bonus d6s, which remember, don't stack with any other temporary hp, and only apply to the monk. Unless she's using the moon unit elf racial feat that lets her transfer temp hp she gets to other characters, but she can't get that until 4th level. It's a balanced feat, race, and class, but if you forget the details the players will walk right over you.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> Hey, I'm on Team ADHD also!



I'm still #Teamvanthatalmosthitbella


----------



## trappedslider

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> _sigh_
> 
> Where even to begin? The moon unit elf's racial trait is a 25' teleport once every short rest. Way of the Setting Sun is a monk subclass, not cleric. And the Way of the Setting Sun monk's Refreshing Rays ability (which is the one that gives temporary hp) is proficiency bonus d6s, which remember, don't stack with any other temporary hp, and only apply to the monk. Unless she's using the moon unit elf racial feat that lets her transfer temp hp she gets to other characters, but she can't get that until 4th level. It's a balanced feat, race, and class, but if you forget the details the players will walk right over you.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

trappedslider said:


> Lines in sands are always moving unless you make a line in cement.



That's the thing. Everyone has a different line. This has been discussed elsewhere, but literally everyone had their own personal code for what is and isn't okay. This applies to supporting creators that have done/said problematic/awful things, even if you enjoy their content.

You have to draw the line. No one else can do it for you. People can tell you their own lines and explain why they put them there, but you're the one that has to do it. The line will probably shift for you as you change as a person, too. There is no widely accepted "one size fits all cases" solution here. In this case, perfection is the enemy of good.


----------



## Gradine

trappedslider said:


> I'm still #Teamvanthatalmosthitbella



My friends and I have always been #Teambellasdadsmoustache, personally


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

South by Southwest said:


> Am I the only DM who thinks there are too many sub-classes, races, and sub-races for players to choose among nowadays?
> 
> Player: _I'm going to play an elven cleric._
> Me: _Cool. Which kind of elf is she: high elf, wood elf, or one of those crazy drow?_
> Player: _Oh, no, she's an astral Moon Unit (Zappa) elf who, as a racial trait, can teleport 30' in any direction once every short rest, and I'm going to play her as a Way of the Setting Sun cleric who gains an extra 2d8+WIS temporary HP every time she uses this ability, so this way I can play her as a tank gish even though her official purpose is to serve as the party's healer. Neat, huh?_
> 
> This is the kind of thing that sends me to the liquor cabinet.



I actually like all of this stuff. IMO, the more customization, the better. It might be a bit difficult for newer players (who I would probably just restrict to the PHB for the first couple campaigns), but I've had no problem with the current array of options with my more experienced 5e players.


----------



## Gradine

It's not an easy balance; I used to love all of the options that were available in 3.X until they just became too much. I don't think 5e has hit that point by any measure, but it's still something to keep an eye on.


----------



## payn

My go to method is allowing any and all books I'm comfortable with and then making anything I'm unfamiliar with an ask for permission case. Usually, these kinds of thing can be talked out.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> My go to method is allowing any and all books I'm comfortable with and then making anything I'm unfamiliar with an ask for permission case. Usually, these kinds of thing can be talked out.



Mine is to make a list available of "default yes" with an explicit offer to talk about anything else. That list seems long to me--includes stuff from a lot of books, and some 3pp/homebrew--and the list of "hard no" (which I don't share) is short. Hasn't been a problem, yet.


----------



## South by Southwest

I thought I was being funny in inventing all those terms, right? Yeah. Mm-hm. So then I went onto Google just to see if stuff like this actually exists (shouldn't've done that...):









						Way of the Setting Sun by Levistej
					

Way of the Setting Sun by Levistej - Created with GM Binder.




					www.gmbinder.com
				












						Astral Elf 5e
					

The Return of the Space Elves The Travelers of the Multiverse unearthed arcana seems to have finally confirmed that a 5e Spelljammer book is on the way, and we’ve got a bunch of new interplanar races to play with. The astral elves are elves who live on the astral plane (which you can essentially...




					www.skullsplitterdice.com
				




More options than a Costco, if'n ye asks me.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Mine is to make a list available of "default yes" with an explicit offer to talk about anything else. That list seems long to me--includes stuff from a lot of books, and some 3pp/homebrew--and the list of "hard no" (which I don't share) is short. Hasn't been a problem, yet.



I guess I could do that but im way too lazy. Its easier to say PHB plus APG (PF stuff) anything else just ask.


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> Am I the only DM who thinks there are too many sub-classes, races, and sub-races for players to choose among nowadays?
> 
> Player: _I'm going to play an elven cleric._
> Me: _Cool. Which kind of elf is she: high elf, wood elf, or one of those crazy drow?_
> Player: _Oh, no, she's an astral Moon Unit (Zappa) elf who, as a racial trait, can teleport 30' in any direction once every short rest, and I'm going to play her as a Way of the Setting Sun cleric who gains an extra 2d8+WIS temporary HP every time she uses this ability, so this way I can play her as a tank gish even though her official purpose is to serve as the party's healer. Neat, huh?_
> 
> This is the kind of thing that sends me to the liquor cabinet.



My 4e Eladrin Warlock/Bard would have sent you to the _medicine_ cabinet


----------



## trappedslider

AcererakTriple6 said:


> You have to draw the line. No one else can do it for you.



i tried telling that to a teacher who told me to draw them a line....it was not the correct answer


----------



## trappedslider

Gradine said:


> It's not an easy balance; I used to love all of the options that were available in 3.X until they just became too much. I don't think 5e has hit that point by any measure, but it's still something to keep an eye on.



i liked the environment books mainly cityscape but I have a preference for urban adventures.


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> i liked the environment books mainly cityscape but I have a preference for urban adventures.



I did not initially like the Eberron setting, but after it grew on me for a while I got the *Sharn: City of Towers* book, and suddenly I had dozens of plot seeds for urban adventure hitting my brain. That's rare from the 3E/3.5E books for me. Still my favorite way to do a really big city.


----------



## trappedslider

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I did not initially like the Eberron setting, but after it grew on me for a while I got the *Sharn: City of Towers* book, and suddenly I had dozens of plot seeds for urban adventure hitting my brain. That's rare from the 3E/3.5E books for me. Still my favorite way to do a really big city.



I used cityscape to make a port city that can be added to almost any setting since it's just fluff Crystalshore 2.0


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> EDIT: oh and I'm back at home now..stupid asathma.




 As a kid I used to regularly end up in the hospital at Christmas and Easter due to a chocolate allergy.




Ryujin said:


> My 4e Eladrin Warlock/Bard would have sent you to the _medicine_ cabinet




 I had a 3.5 Swashbuckler/Swordsage that would have required heavy doses of Thorazine  , lol - it was adding *three (and sometimes four) different ability modifiers to damage* with a two-handed finesse weapon (+2d6 sneak attack) and teleporting 50' multiple times each encounter, as well as being a competent skill monkey and handy with a healing kit...
There were so many moving parts to it that literally takes me five minutes to explain it all.


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> I had a 3.5 Swashbuckler/Swordsage that would have required heavy doses of Thorazine  , lol - it was adding *three (and sometimes four) different ability modifiers to damage* with a two-handed finesse weapon (+2d6 sneak attack) and teleporting 50' multiple times each encounter, as well as being a competent skill monkey and handy with a healing kit...
> There were so many moving parts to it that literally takes me five minutes to explain it all.



Mine was designed to be a DM's nightmare. not about damage at all, but could wipe out minions like a Controller. Teleport 5' as a minor action, +10' from some magic item that I can't remember now. Most powers had to do with teleport. Swap with another character as teleport. Teleport an opponent, doing damage. Teleport away doing damage to adjacent enemies. Paste an opponent to the ceiling for a little while, while we eliminate the other opponents. Teleport through a solid wall, without needing to see the other side (once per day, I believe). Massive pluses to Persuasion and Bluff, from Bard rituals. Basically a ritual do derail just about any Skill Challenge you could think of. And, I think my favourite, didn't do a ton of damage but applied multiple damage type keywords meaning "resistance is futile."

My party members constantly complained about me not keeping up with my 'required' DPR. They didn't think about the guy that they didn't need to fight, for various reasons, while they were mopping up the rest.


----------



## Cadence

And now I want a poll about what's more annoying - unfettered metagaming, judicious use of fudging, or pineapple on the communal pizza.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> And now I want a poll about what's more annoying - unfettered metagaming, judicious use of fudging, or pineapple on the communal pizza.



The answer:  _polls_


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Mine was designed to be a DM's nightmare. not about damage at all, but could wipe out minions like a Controller.




 My guy was a martial controller, although that terminology didn't officially exist in 3.5 - he used a spiked chain, so he threatened a large area. He'd strategically teleport or tumble into empty spaces between groups of enemies (taking advantage of the flanking rules for reach weapons to line up flanking on multiple opponents) and start throwing around opportunity attacks and trip attempts like beads at Mardi Gras before switching positions again... 

It was strictly a theory-op build, though, as I'd never play something like that in a normal game (the original concept it was based on that I _did_ play was a rogue with a few fighter and swashbuckler levels).


----------



## Jacob Lewis

I am not a fan of armchair GMs, especially ones who want to sit at someone else's table and explain how they should run games for them.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> And now I want a poll about what's more annoying - unfettered metagaming, judicious use of fudging, or pineapple on the communal pizza.






CleverNickName said:


> The answer:  _polls_



Yeah no, it's definitely the pineapple


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Well, I commented. Guess I'm disqualified.


----------



## Zardnaar

How to show you're from NZ without saying it. 

 At the supermarket. 

 Popcorn 




Chocolate.


 Potatoe chips


----------



## Cadence

Zardnaar said:


> How to show you're from NZ without saying it.
> 
> At the supermarket.
> 
> Popcorn
> 
> View attachment 154888
> 
> Chocolate.
> View attachment 154889
> 
> Potatoe chips
> View attachment 154890



That's not much variety for potato chips and popcorn is it.    Lots of space taken up repeating the same flavor.  ;-) 

The chocolate aisle probably crushes what most places here in the states have though in terms of quality.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> How to show you're from NZ without saying it.
> 
> At the supermarket.
> 
> Popcorn
> 
> View attachment 154888
> 
> Chocolate.
> View attachment 154889
> 
> Potatoe chips
> View attachment 154890



I mean, that could be California.


----------



## Zardnaar

Cadence said:


> That's not much variety for potato chips and popcorn is it.    Lots of space taken up repeating the same flavor.  ;-)
> 
> The chocolate aisle probably crushes what most places here in the states have though in terms of quality.




 No one cares about popcorn really. We have 4-5 basic flavours and most brands cover them. Chicken, green onion, sour cream and chives, salt and vinegar and ready salted are the basic flavours. 

 And various puffed snacks and corn chips. 

 There's stuff like nestle and Hershey's in the chocolate section. Lindt and Whittaker's crush them quality wise. 
They start at 33% cocoa and go up to 95%.


 Different flavours?


----------



## Zardnaar

Flat white coffee. Here we believe in "flavour".



 Baristas can get a silver fern design on the foam.


----------



## darjr

First Contact Day! From the Vulcans defenders league!


----------



## Gradine

That chocolate aisle is pretty intense, but the other two pictures might as well have been taken at my own grocery store


----------



## Gradine

Parmandur said:


> I mean, that could be California.



Precisely


----------



## Zardnaar

Gradine said:


> That chocolate aisle is pretty intense, but the other two pictures might as well have been taken at my own grocery store




 They gave me grief about NZ pizza. We can get American style here but you're stuck with your coffee and chocolate.


----------



## payn

Looks like we have arrived at the throwing hands in the air point of the thread.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Zardnaar said:


> They gave me grief about NZ pizza.




They? That's Snarf to you, oh person from the imaginary land.

In fairness, I am not sure that what is served in New Zealand can even qualify as "pizza." Maybe we call it .... New Zealand Dough Products?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Looks like we have arrived at the throwing hands in the air point of the thread.




'Aure entuluva! Day shall come again!'

At least Hurin only had to swing 70 times before getting drug off...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Behold .... CORN!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## CleverNickName

Edition War bait detected!
Abort!  Abort!


----------



## Zardnaar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> They? That's Snarf to you, oh person from the imaginary land.
> 
> In fairness, I am not sure that what is served in New Zealand can even qualify as "pizza." Maybe we call it .... New Zealand Dough Products?




 Well it's much like American cheese flavoured dairy products and chocolate flavoured candy like Hershey's.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> Well it's much like American cheese flavoured dairy products and chocolate flavoured candy like Hershey's.



We have real cheese, we just don't share it.


----------



## Zardnaar

Parmandur said:


> We have real cheese, we just don't share it.




 It's about as good as your beer, coffee and chocolate or NZ Mexican.


----------



## payn

Zardnaar said:


> It's about as good as your beer, coffee and chocolate or NZ Mexican.



...and our beer is off the hook!


----------



## South by Southwest

Somehow, I'm lately thinking of _Spamalot_...


----------



## RealAlHazred

This primarily-English language forum seems the perfect place for my Chinese-character spam! No one will detect my villainy! It's a foolproof plan!


----------



## prabe




----------



## J.Quondam

Well obviously _something_ was unattended, or the guy wouldn't have wet himself.


edit: Hmm, what on earth did I do? That didn't end up where I intended. Next time, not so many tabs open, I think. But the comment stands, nonetheless.


----------



## South by Southwest

J.Quondam said:


> Well obviously _something_ was unattended, or the guy wouldn't have wet himself.



You know, it never even occurred to me that one might use prestidigitation for something like that. Maybe not strictly legal under RAW, but pretty clever.


----------



## J.Quondam

South by Southwest said:


> You know, it never even occurred to me that one might use prestidigitation for something like that. Maybe not strictly legal under RAW, but pretty clever.



Well, at least someone here knows where I was trying to post.


----------



## J.Quondam

Maybe there should be a "I commented in the wrong thread" thread.


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> This primarily-English language forum seems the perfect place for my Chinese-character spam! No one will detect my villainy! It's a foolproof plan!



I delete an awful lot of spam based on the Cyrillic Alphabet from a chainmaining (the metal stuff, not the letter stuff) where I'm a mod. Funny thing is that the forum software in no way supports the Cyrillic Alphabet. Bots be bots.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> It's about as good as your beer, coffee and chocolate or NZ Mexican.



No, real American cheese (as opposed to "American Cheese" a.k.a. "Goverbment Cheese") is actually extremely good.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> No, real American cheese (as opposed to "American Cheese" a.k.a. "Goverbment Cheese") is actually extremely good.



And Wisconsin cheddar is also pretty good.


----------



## South by Southwest

CleverNickName said:


> And Wisconsin cheddar is also pretty good.



Wisconsin is home to one the best cheese I have ever tasted (and once upon a time, I traveled a lot): it's this stuff called "Bellavitano." They have an espresso rind version of it that knocks my socks off every time.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> And Wisconsin cheddar is also pretty good.






South by Southwest said:


> Wisconsin is home to one the best cheese I have ever tasted (and once upon a time, I traveled a lot): it's this stuff called "Bellavitano." They have an espresso rind version of it that knocks my socks off every time.



Yeah, that's the stuff. Wisconsin cheese is legit. 

California cheese is qlso pretty excellent, but there is less of that artisianal tradition...but it is there. And we have Monterey Jack, the ultimate American cultural fusion dairy product.


----------



## payn

Thank goodness, for a second I thought y'all were talking about Kraft singles.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Thank goodness, for a second I thought y'all were talking about Kraft singles.



No, that's what @Zardnaar  thinks American cheese is, and honestly I can hardly blame him. As I said, we don't share the good stuff. Same with the beer


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Thank goodness, for a second I thought y'all were talking about Kraft singles.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Thank goodness, for a second I thought y'all were talking about Kraft singles.




That would be "American cheese food product", right?


----------



## Cadence

At least this didn't comment thread is still making sense!  

(It feels like this is a bad sign).


----------



## Mad_Jack

Parmandur said:


> as opposed to "American Cheese" a.k.a. "Goverbment Cheese"




 I'm actually kind of fond of the gub'ment cheese... Obviously this is some mix of nostalgia and Stockholm syndrome (from when I used to eat it as a kid), but I still kind of like it.

(Why yes, I am a Communist.)


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> Well obviously _something_ was unattended, or the guy wouldn't have wet himself.
> 
> 
> edit: Hmm, what on earth did I do? That didn't end up where I intended. Next time, not so many tabs open, I think. But the comment stands, nonetheless.



Where the f are you hanging out?


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> Maybe there should be a "I commented in the wrong thread" thread.



That’s every thread!

what? Just me?


----------



## darjr

Oh. Your hanging out here. It’s here.


----------



## darjr

I got banned from Twitter while I was at the gym. I didn’t even notice. Just several notices about being banned with no chance of review. Then a message that I was indeed being reviewed but I’d have to delete the offending posts. Then a message that I was reinstated.

Now I’m a little POd cause I’ll never know what messages!!!!


----------



## darjr

Oh. No. I did go through all the steps. Well that makes more sense. I think?


----------



## South by Southwest

darjr said:


> Oh. No. I did go through all the steps. Well that makes more sense. I think?



No. There is no sense to be made of Twitter's behavior; it doesn't make any.


----------



## Zardnaar

Parmandur said:


> No, that's what @Zardnaar  thinks American cheese is, and honestly I can hardly blame him. As I said, we don't share the good stuff. Same with the beer




 I knew about Wisconsin cheeses. 

 As I understand it in America you have high end and low end bulk type stuff. 

 Our stuff is roughly in the middle of those two things the food standards are higher and various things Americans do to their food is illegal here. 

  Do the inputs are higher quality generally but US has better high end stuff and more variety. Most of the rest is just basic stuff like grass feed cattle vs grain fed. Less industrialized farming here with the exception of dairy.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> That would be "American cheese food product", right?



Also known as "processed cheese food" because there's so little actual cheese in it, that it's illegal to call it "cheese."


----------



## Cadence

Oh to be able to vivisect in thread the IRL ones you seem to be acting like are not awful.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Why am I here again?


----------



## trappedslider

Jacob Lewis said:


> Why am I here again?



The eternally unanswered question we all share


----------



## Bolares

Jacob Lewis said:


> Why am I here again?



Because work is boring today?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Bolares said:


> Because work is boring today?



No, I don't work anymore. Which means my time is even more valuable now, so I feel its being squandered on certain topics and activities.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Because work is boring today?




Work is the scourge of the drinking class.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Zardnaar said:


> Well it's much like American cheese flavoured dairy products and chocolate flavoured candy like Hershey's.




Recipe for creating The Full American.

Step 1. Insert the Hershey's.







Step 2. Insert the cheezliciousness.






Step 3.  Bring that awesome chococheese mizture home with a pure blast of American Beer Foam!








*You're welcome. *


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Recipe for creating The Full American.
> 
> Step 1. Insert the Hershey's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Step 2. Insert the cheezliciousness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Step 3.  Bring that awesome chococheese mizture home with a pure blast of American Beer Foam!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *You're welcome. *



One newer American tradition is beer darts. You sit ina  circle with an unopened beer at your feet. Then, you take turns throwing a dart (yes at cans near each others feet) until you strike a can. Then, the person behind the beer must drink down to the level that the dart hit in the can. It's dumb like a lot of American stuff. 

I had to slam a Coors "creamsickle" seltzer. Delicious when you simply sip and enjoy, quite awful when you are forced to chug it. (I thought the slim profile can would be an advantage. It was not.)


----------



## darjr

Because I’d miss all y’all.

The ones who haven’t block me that is.


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Because I’d miss all y’all.
> 
> The ones who haven’t block me that is.



who in their right mind would block you? Half of the threads in this forum were started by you


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> who in their right mind would block you? Half of the threads in this forum were started by you




You lost me at "right mind."


----------



## payn

Bolares said:


> who in their right mind would block you? Half of the threads in this forum were started by you



It's true, EN Worlders dont even have to have their own Twitter accounts!


----------



## CleverNickName

"Now _that's _entertainment!"
-Vlaad the Impaler


----------



## darjr

Wait a second!


----------



## darjr

Bolares said:


> who in their right mind would block you? Half of the threads in this forum were started by you



Well certainly not you!

Yet.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> "Now _that's _entertainment!"
> -Vlaad the Impaler


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> "Now _that's _entertainment!"
> -Vlaad the Impaler




Long Live Molvania! - ZLAD!


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Long Live Molvania! - ZLAD!



That joke band makes me think of a not at all joke but real soviet elctronic band (with bonus Mike Ditka on keys)


----------



## Mad_Jack

Jacob Lewis said:


> Why am I here again?




 They lied and told you there were cookies.


----------



## Parmandur

Hmmmm, black and white thinking, so tempting....


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> They lied and told you there were cookies.






Parmandur said:


> Hmmmm, black and white thinking, so tempting....




I was going to combine these into a joke, but I couldn't decide between Black & White Cookies or Oreos.

Wait ... 







As always, Jerry has the answer.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Mad_Jack said:


> They lied and told you there were cookies.



You mean they _fudged_ on cookies.


----------



## CleverNickName

All this talk about fudge is making me diabetic.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> All this talk about fudge is making me diabetic.



Funny, all of this diabetes is making me miss fudge.


----------



## eyeheartawk

My thoughts on fudge are the same as Alf's on cats.

Next time you bring enough for everyone.


----------



## trappedslider

someone should just make a general movie thread....


----------



## el-remmen

It is amazing how not only do some people repeat the same thing over an over in a thread without indicating that they have understood or even _read _what they are responding to, but they do this across many threads over time.


----------



## eyeheartawk

el-remmen said:


> It is amazing how not only do some people repeat the same thing over an over in a thread without indicating that they have understood or even _read _what they are responding to, but they do this across many threads over time.



I agree with your statement. Kirk is definitely superior to Picard.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I agree with your statement. Kirk is definitely superior to Picard.


----------



## el-remmen

eyeheartawk said:


> I agree with your statement. Kirk is definitely superior to Picard.




As long as we agree that Sisko and Janeway are better than both.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> One newer American tradition is beer darts. You sit ina  circle with an unopened beer at your feet. Then, you take turns throwing a dart (yes at cans near each others feet) until you strike a can. Then, the person behind the beer must drink down to the level that the dart hit in the can. It's dumb like a lot of American stuff.
> 
> I had to slam a Coors "creamsickle" seltzer. Delicious when you simply sip and enjoy, quite awful when you are forced to chug it. (I thought the slim profile can would be an advantage. It was not.)



So lemme get this straight: folks surround themselves with alcohol and then start throwing actual projectile weapons at each other's feet while progressively getting more and more drunk as they continue??

That's--no. Nope, I am never doing that.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> So lemme get this straight: folks surround themselves with alcohol and then start throwing actual projectile weapons at each other's feet while progressively getting more and more drunk as they continue??
> 
> That's--no. Nope, I am never doing that.



Sounds better after you've had a few...


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> It is amazing how not only do some people repeat the same thing over an over in a thread without indicating that they have understood or even _read _what they are responding to, but they do this across many threads over time.




Isn't that what you said last time this came up?


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> So lemme get this straight: folks surround themselves with alcohol and then start throwing actual projectile weapons at each other's feet while progressively getting more and more drunk as they continue??
> 
> That's--no. Nope, I am never doing that.



"From the country that gave you Lawn Darts and Clackers comes..."


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Sounds better after you've had a few...




So does pineapple on pizza.


----------



## eyeheartawk

el-remmen said:


> As long as we agree that Sisko and Janeway are better than both.



I'll give you Sisko, but only Janeway on the stipulation that she personally built all the replacement shuttles.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> So does pineapple on pizza.



Can't beat em; join em!


----------



## trappedslider

we seriously need a movies in general thread lol


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> we seriously need a movies in general thread lol




Or, you know, you could just end that other thread by asking everyone what they think of the most recent Star Wars trilogy.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

This is so... I can't believe... what are you... why...


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or, you know, you could just end that other thread by asking everyone what they think of the most recent Star Wars trilogy.



My favorite part of the new Star Wars trilogy was when the astromech droid Chris Pine did that sick motorcycle jump!


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You lost me at "right mind."



Didn't even know you were mine to loose


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or, you know, you could just end that other thread by asking everyone what they think of the most recent Star Wars trilogy.



done


----------



## Cadence

Wait, so how is a republic different from a democracy again?


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Wait, so how is a republic different from a democracy again?



Why, it's more republic-an.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Why, it's more republic-an.




re-pub = go back again for more beer
re-publy = one who goes back for more beer
re-publy-can  = ok, I'll take that as permission!


----------



## Umbran

Time to walk away from the politics jokes, folks.


----------



## Bolares

I know the guy is a grifter (and worse) but I get kind of weirded out by HOW MUCH you hate him


----------



## South by Southwest

Who, you mean that Lasagna guy? I didn't even know who he was until I joined this site, but I have to agree that he seems almost transcendently unpopular 'round here. Must'a _really_ peed in someone's Wheaties...


----------



## trappedslider

"It’s not that Larry Posner’s movies have gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence. It’s that they suck. They’re terrible. But people go to see them because they have gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence. Now, if we could just get people to stop going to see crappy movies, Posner would stop making them." - West Wing

<Insert name of director you don't like in place of Larry Posner>


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Time to walk away from the politics jokes, folks.



Sorry, tried to use the hyphenation to steer away from an obvious political joke. Should have either used "-ish", or nothing at all. In future, it'll be nothing.


----------



## South by Southwest

It's like my computer screen is sharting hanzi.


----------



## CleverNickName

I don't know who needs to hear this, but I'm raffling off some electronic books on DM's Guild, over in my latest Survivor Thread.  
It looks like the prize will be either "The Tortle Package" or "Domains of Delight," but it's really too early to tell.  Three lucky participants will win their own copy, so go check it out.


----------



## Gradine

Wisconsin cheese is for suckers. Northern California goat cheese is the tops. Especially Cypress Grove


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Wisconsin cheese is for suckers. Northern California goat cheese is the tops. Especially Cypress Grove



Why not both...?


----------



## Gradine

Parmandur said:


> Why not both...?



What is this? Nuance? On _my_ message board?!


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> What is this? Nuance? On _my_ message board?!



If a giant platter of cheese is nuanced, sure.


----------



## CleverNickName

Mmmm...goat cheese with some sliced fresh figs and a drizzle of balsamic vinegar...a little prosciutto, maybe a glass of wine...


----------



## darjr

Both


----------



## darjr

Does it really look like him though?


----------



## Umbran

Bolares said:


> I know the guy is a grifter (and worse) but I get kind of weirded out by HOW MUCH you hate him




In this world, being able to identify the real villain of a piece is a rarity.  Expect people to revel in it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> In this world, being able to identify the real villain of a piece is a rarity.  Expect people to revel in it.




I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED!


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> In this world, being able to identify the real villain of a piece is a rarity.  Expect people to revel in it.



And now I'm even more grateful the site doesn't allow discussing politics!

(Also, I'm wondering if your statement explains how DMs are treated in a bunch of threads... ).


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED!




I go for the Chemists.  Pfas being their latest attempt to kill us all.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> (Also, I'm wondering if your statement explains how DMs are treated in a bunch of threads... ).




How DMs are treated, how players are treated, how game designers are treated, and so on.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Last night I watched _Drive My Car_ (nominee for Best Picture and Best Director at the Academy Awards). It's on HBO Max for those who stream. Here are my impressions-

1. It's three hours long.

2. It's really powerful.

3. It's three hours long.

4. You don't have to know Chekhov or Uncle Vanya, but ... woah. The film isn't at all about that, but it's also not ... not about that.

5. It's, you know, three hours long.

6. Parts of the movie were just incredibly devastating; not in the way that you have this big Hollywood pathos (like a Sophie's Choice) but just in the quiet way life can be.

7. Note- contains language suitable for broadcast at 11:30pm


Spoiler







8. If you have three hours ... three _uninterrupted hours_ (this isn't a "watch in the background" kind of movie ... this is a full attention thing) I really recommend it. I wondered what all the hoopla was about, and now I get it.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Last night I watched _Drive My Car_ (nominee for Best Picture and Best Director at the Academy Awards). It's on HBO Max for those who stream. Here are my impressions-
> 
> 1. It's three hours long.
> 
> 2. It's really powerful.
> 
> 3. It's three hours long.
> 
> 4. You don't have to know Chekhov or Uncle Vanya, but ... woah. The film isn't at all about that, but it's also not ... not about that.
> 
> 5. It's, you know, three hours long.
> 
> 6. Parts of the movie were just incredibly devastating; not in the way that you have this big Hollywood pathos (like a Sophie's Choice) but just in the quiet way life can be.
> 
> 7. Note- contains language suitable for broadcast at 11:30pm
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. If you have three hours ... three _uninterrupted hours_ (this isn't a "watch in the background" kind of movie ... this is a full attention thing) I really recommend it. I wandered what all the hoopla was about, and now I get it.



Three hours!? No way Imma just watch an entire season of something else instead.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> I don't know who needs to hear this, but I'm raffling off some electronic books on DM's Guild, over in my latest Survivor Thread.
> It looks like the prize will be either "The Tortle Package" or "Domains of Delight," but it's really too early to tell.  Three lucky participants will win their own copy, so go check it out.



Sadly, I already have both of those. In fact, I have at two-thirds of the ones you posted! I wouldn't mind getting one that I haven't, yet, but those are likely to be voted off first!


----------



## RealAlHazred

I would like to introduce people who don't know to the German word "Backpfeifengesicht" (bahk-pfigh-fen-ɡe-zicht, with a slightly drawn-out "ch" like you do in German.) It literally means, "a face in need of a backhand slap." Pharma bro is definitely on the list; I also find myself seeing photos of Tucker Carlson with his pinched lips and adding him mentally to the list.


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I would like to introduce people who don't know to the German word "Backpfeifengesicht" (bahk-pfigh-fen-ɡe-zicht, with a slightly drawn-out "ch" like you do in German.) It literally means, "a face in need of a backhand slap." Pharma bro is definitely on the list; I also find myself seeing photos of Tucker Carlson with his pinched lips and adding him mentally to the list.



Just learned that one, yesterday, from a friend on Facebook. Had to look it up.


----------



## Gradine

Chemist is easily the best job, if only because of !Mix.


----------



## Cadence

And now the wait for the other side...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> And now the wait for the other side...




You haven't fully lived until you've had everything brosplained to you.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You haven't fully lived until you've had everything brosplained to you.



I believe that's subtraction by addition.


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Sadly, I already have both of those. In fact, I have at two-thirds of the ones you posted! I wouldn't mind getting one that I haven't, yet, but those are likely to be voted off first!



I have a plan for that.  ;-)


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You haven't fully lived until you've had everything brosplained to you.



If I had a nickel for every time...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


> If I had a nickel for every time...



You see, ACTUALLY, the way brosplaining works, is...


----------



## CleverNickName

Or a wink emoji.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Zardnaar

This is a Mocha in NZ. It's a coffee/hot chocolate mix. It has "flavour" for you Americans and our milk tastes better.


----------



## payn

Zardnaar said:


> This is a Mocha in NZ. It's a coffee/hot chocolate mix. It has "flavour" for you Americans and our milk tastes better.
> View attachment 155042



Curious have you actually been to America? Or is this based on stuff you get in NZ?


----------



## Zardnaar

payn said:


> Curious have you actually been to America? Or is this based on stuff you get in NZ?




 Stuff bought here, what Americans say here, friends going to USA and 9 parts mockery.


----------



## CleverNickName

Zardnaar said:


> Stuff bought here, what Americans say here, friends going to USA and 9 parts mockery.



Which is fair, considering how most Americans feel about Starbucks, Hershey's, and Budweiser.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> This is a Mocha in NZ. It's a coffee/hot chocolate mix. It has "flavour" for you Americans and our milk tastes better.
> View attachment 155042



I mean...we have Mocha here. Sometimes it's good. Coffee has been improving rapidly, actually, within my lifetime.


----------



## Zardnaar

CleverNickName said:


> Which is fair, considering how most Americans feel about Starbucks, Hershey's, and Budweiser.




To be fair Buds better than our slop. It's watery but us bland enough to knock back. 

 Bland is better than unpleasant


----------



## Zardnaar

Parmandur said:


> I mean...we have Mocha here. Sometimes it's good. Coffee has been improving rapidly, actually, within my lifetime.




  Double shot standard here with berrer quality preparation and milk.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> Double shot standard here with berrer quality preparation and milk.



I mean, I am biased because I live in a major cultural center with a major tradition of quality dairy, and I am sure what you have photographed is great, but...what we have in California at least is pretty good, too.

The best way is to make it at home, too, so you don't have to settle for just a double shot.


----------



## CleverNickName

Zardnaar said:


> To be fair Buds better than our slop. It's watery but us bland enough to knock back.
> 
> Bland is better than unpleasant





 



I like lagers, but Budweiser tastes awful.  And I like IPAs, but Lagunitas tastes like insect repellant.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 155049 View attachment 155050
> 
> I like lagers, but Budweiser tastes awful.  And I like IPAs, but Lagunitas tastes like insect repellant.



I tend towards Fat Tire, myself, or 805. 









For IPA, Denoginizer from Drake's is good, and as a nice bonus will naugthy word you up like nobody's business, great way to get out of your head.


----------



## Parmandur

@Zardnaar  if you really want to flex, talk abut real estate: you can probably buy a house and have good coffee. In the U.S., you have to choose one or the other.


----------



## CleverNickName

If @Zardnaar _really _wanted to flex, they could talk about health care and college tuition.

Here's my favorite beer (so far):


----------



## Zardnaar

CleverNickName said:


> If @Zardnaar _really _wanted to flex, they could talk about health care and college tuition.
> 
> Here's my favorite beer (so far):
> View attachment 155055




 And Covid response.


----------



## Zardnaar

Parmandur said:


> @Zardnaar  if you really want to flex, talk abut real estate: you can probably buy a house and have good coffee. In the U.S., you have to choose one or the other.




 Housing here is more expensive than USA. Average price is 700k usd the cheapest you'll find (small town, South Island,) is around $280k usd.

 Auckland and Wellington similar in price to California.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> Housing here is more expensive than USA. Average price is 700k usd the cheapest you'll find (small town, South Island,) is around $280k usd.



That sounds pretty good to me, actually, but again...from my location, where 700k is impossibly cheap for a two bedroom dump.


----------



## Zardnaar

Parmandur said:


> That sounds pretty good to me, actually, but again...from my location, where 700k is impossibly cheap for a two bedroom dump.




 If your in Seattle, LA or NYC sure. 

 In USA you can relocate somewhere cheaper cities here tend to start at 450k usd. 

 You're also not gonna get those Seattle level wages while paying those prices.


----------



## Parmandur

Zardnaar said:


> If your in Seattle, LA or NYC sure.
> 
> In USA you can relocate somewhere cheaper cities here tend to start at 450k usd.
> 
> You're also not gonna get those Seattle level wages while paying those prices.



Aye, nor get the same sort of mocha or artisanal craft beer.


----------



## J.Quondam

Parmandur said:


> Aye, nor get the same sort of mocha or artisanal craft beer.



As a resident of small town , I can confirm this.


----------



## payn

Y'all are making me thirsty. Think its time to crack a Pistachio Cream Ale. Enjoy your Friday night!


----------



## payn

Zardnaar said:


> Stuff bought here, what Americans say here, friends going to USA and 9 parts mockery.



Gonna say if you are having American milk shipped there, I have no doubt that NZ milk is better...


----------



## Zardnaar

payn said:


> Gonna say if you are having American milk shipped there, I have no doubt that NZ milk is better...




 Na doesn't your milk last 6 weeks or something in the fridge?


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Y'all are making me thirsty. Think its time to crack a Pistachio Cream Ale. Enjoy your Friday night!



Cheers, payn.


----------



## Cadence

Poster 1:  "It's X"

Poster 2: "No, here's the original source and a scholarly book and a journal article all showing it's Y."

Poster 1: "No, it's definitely X".

What I want to click on that last one:


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Cheers, payn.
> View attachment 155057



We've got a thread for that!  








						Virtual Happy Hour (Brews & Spirits, Pics & Reviews)
					

Untitled Art dessert stouts are always a gamble.  The Black & Blue Chocolate Chip Pancake Stout was a losing one.  The smell was really enticing but this imperial stout with blackberry and blueberry puree, cacao nibs, maple syrup and milk sugar was way too freaking sweet and syrupy. Not sure how...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> We've got a thread for that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Virtual Happy Hour (Brews & Spirits, Pics & Reviews)
> 
> 
> Untitled Art dessert stouts are always a gamble.  The Black & Blue Chocolate Chip Pancake Stout was a losing one.  The smell was really enticing but this imperial stout with blackberry and blueberry puree, cacao nibs, maple syrup and milk sugar was way too freaking sweet and syrupy. Not sure how...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.enworld.org



Dude.

Come on.

Read the room.

_I didn't comment in that other thread._


----------



## CleverNickName

(I just commented in that other thread.)


----------



## Umbran

Zardnaar said:


> Na doesn't your milk last 6 weeks or something in the fridge?




No.  I go grocery shopping every two weeks.  The milk _usually_ is okay for that span, but not always.


----------



## Zardnaar

Umbran said:


> No.  I go grocery shopping every two weeks.  The milk _usually_ is okay for that span, but not always.




 Ah ours goes off in about a week.


----------



## payn

Hung out with my little bros tonight. One is 12 years younger, the other 16. They were amazed at both my "old" and "new"music picks of Pharcyde and Japanese Breakfast. They continue to think I'm awesome, which I am.


----------



## Cadence

You know that person who really likes board games - all board games.  And then you bring one up in conversation, or over to play, and they describe why they hate it and point out five others you should try instead?  I wonder if they go to threads on popular board games they hate just to point out what folks should be playing instead.


----------



## Cadence

I didn't see that coming. :-(


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> You know that person who really likes board games - all board games.  And then you bring one up in conversation, or over to play, and they describe why they hate it and point out five others you should try instead?  I wonder if they go to threads on popular board games they hate just to point out what folks should be playing instead.



Is it only BGs they are like this? Cause thats sounding very close to the personality type I call the "The Topper". No matter what your favorite is, they know of a better one. No matter what kind of deal you got, they always got a better deal. No matter how much fun you had on vacation, they had twice as much. Etc..etc...


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Is it only BGs they are like this? Cause thats sounding very close to the personality type I call the "The Topper". No matter what your favorite is, they know of a better one. No matter what kind of deal you got, they always got a better deal. No matter how much fun you had on vacation, they had twice as much. Etc..etc...



You know, I once knew a guy like that....


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> You know, I once knew a guy like that....



Thats good, because if you cant think of any...


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Is it only BGs they are like this? Cause thats sounding very close to the personality type I call the "The Topper". No matter what your favorite is, they know of a better one. No matter what kind of deal you got, they always got a better deal. No matter how much fun you had on vacation, they had twice as much. Etc..etc...




The ones I'm thinking of are fine if you pick any of the x00 that they've played before and kept on their shelves.  But if they played it before and didn't decide to buy it they'll have very strong opinions.  I don't see them going out of their way to a thread about the games they don't like (unless it was a "what did you think about" thread on a general board game board).


----------



## Mad_Jack

Zardnaar said:


> Ah ours goes off in about a week.




 As a rule of thumb, you can definitely count on a gallon of American milk being good for a week after opening. Generally, it'll last a few days longer than that, like Umbran said. Whole milk doesn't last quite as long as skim milk or 1%.
 At least in my opinion, though, after about ten days or so, there's a good chance the milk will start tasting not quite as fresh even if it doesn't actually go bad.


----------



## el-remmen

Testing a theory.


----------



## Gradine

The point was pretty damn clear, if you ask me.


----------



## Cadence

I sometimes feel like some posters live in a detached alternate reality.  Then I find myself googling up who somebody named Matt Coville is. Uhm, so, anyway... <looks in mirror>.


----------



## Cadence

As I make plans to go to one... Are large annual international/national  academic conferences and hobby conventions intrinsically bad due to the environmental damage caused by all the travel they require?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Sometimes when I listen to (i.e. read the comments of) other people, I begin to realize I don't actually want to hang out, play a game, or share anything with them.


----------



## darjr

Oh! So it is ENWorlds fault. OK, sure.


----------



## Bolares

darjr said:


> Oh! So it is ENWorlds fault. OK, sure.



It's always Enworlds fault


----------



## RealAlHazred

Bolares said:


> It's always Enworlds fault



_shakes fist at sky_

"NOAAAAAH!!!"


----------



## darjr

As long as we understand. Cause when the punishments are handed out I dint wanna hear any whining.


----------



## darjr

You have no idea how great that makes me feel! I can’t tell you but I just wanted to post it somewhere. Made my day!


----------



## eyeheartawk

Jacob Lewis said:


> Sometimes when I listen to (i.e. read the comments of) other people, I begin to realize I don't actually want to hang out, play a game, or share anything with them.



You can always share your disdain for fellow human beings.

Works pretty well for me.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 155183



Actually, last night I was watching this scene and a different kid was prominently shown at the funeral and I had no idea who the hell they were.


----------



## trappedslider

i am dumb


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> i am dumb



Watched the whole movie to see that strange new kid too huh?


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Actually, last night I was watching this scene and a different kid was prominently shown at the funeral and I had no idea who the hell they were.



Heh, because whomever invited people to the memorial service were much better at reviewing Tony's rolodex (or digital equivalent) than fans are at remembering/recognizing characters.


----------



## trappedslider

darjr said:


> Watched the whole movie to see that strange new kid too huh?



i typed that one of the kids is the kid  from ironman 3 and then I got the joke


----------



## Gradine

Nobody remembers the kid sidekick


----------



## Gradine

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 155183



Don't ask Pepper, she won't know either


----------



## darjr

Who is Iron Man? He’s just this guy, ya know?


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> Who is Iron Man? He’s just this guy, ya know?



I thought that was Zaphod ...


----------



## Cadence

"Why won't you let me defend this for no reason!  Why!"


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> I thought that was Zaphod ...



An anagram of Tony Stark if ever I saw one!


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> An anagram of Tony Stark if ever I saw one!



I do not think one can rearrange the letters of Tony Stark to read "Zaphod B. Beeblebrox."


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> I do not think one can rearrange the letters of Tony Stark to read "Zaphod B. Beeblebrox."



If Zaphod can make everyone’s underwhere jump two feet to the left he as sure can.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> If Zaphod can make everyone’s underwhere jump two feet to the left he as sure can.



I don't believe he ever did that--that's referenced as a party trick for scientists, which Beeblebrox decidedly is not. I mean, he'd do it if he could--and Eccentrica Gallumbits did describe him as "the best bang since the big one."


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> I do not think one can rearrange the letters of Tony Stark to read "Zaphod B. Beeblebrox."



If internet trolls have taught us anything, over the years, it's that if it doesn't fit then you're not trying hard enough.


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> I don't believe he ever did that--that's referenced as a party trick for scientists, which Beeblebrox decidedly is not. I mean, he'd do it if he could--and Eccentrica Gallumbits did describe him as "the best bang since the big one."



I was at that party. It was before he had the two heads. Still can’t find that underwear


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> An anagram of Tony Stark if ever I saw one!




Real gaming story:

I was playing in a larp, in which we were fighting minions of a villain that called itself "The Emissary".  It was a really hard fight, and all the players were winded.  We had barely managed to repel the foot soldiers of the bad guy, and we were expecting a lieutenant would show up in the next wave, but we had a few minutes breather (as one of the NPC players ran off to change costume in the woods - I could just see him through the trees.)  So, scattered about the thinly wooded area, we were discussing our predicament.

One guy (who was a smart enough dude), was playing a mercenary character with very little in the way of brains, and decided for some comedy.  He says, "Hey, We got this enemy - the Emissary.  And we have another enemy, Anton Mesmer.  Emissary.  Mesmer.  They're... what do you call 'em?  Anagrams!  The Emissary and Mesmer are the same guy!"

And silence falls over the wooded glen at the sheer stupidity of this statement.  But nobody is willing point out the problem with the logic.

I'm playing a brilliant, gruff, "does not suffer fools lightly" engineer who has already nearly died twice on the field.  So I call out, in my best incredulous voice*, "There's no Y in 'Mesmer!'"  

Remember that NPC player getting into costume?  He was also the guy who played the NPC Mesmer.  And he's harried, rushing to get his head into a rubber demon-head mask, and he just falls to his knees cracking up.  The entire fight was delayed another 10 minutes because we'd given him a giggle fit he couldn't shake.

I was later given an award for being the only player to down two villains, who weren't even in a scene, without firing a shot.




*Echoing Tom Hanks in _A League of Their Own_, "There's no crying in baseball!"


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> I was at that party. It was before he had the two heads. Still can’t find that underwear




I disbelieve.  People on this website don't get invited to those sorts of parties.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> Real gaming story:
> 
> I was playing in a larp, in which we were fighting minions of a villain that called itself "The Emissary".  It was a really hard fight, and all the players were winded.  We had barely managed to repel the foot soldiers of the bad guy, and we were expecting a lieutenant would show up in the next wave, but we had a few minutes breather (as one of the NPC players ran off to change costume in the woods - I could just see him through the trees.)  So, scattered about the thinly wooded area, we were discussing our predicament.
> 
> One guy (who was a smart enough dude), was playing a mercenary character with very little in the way of brains, and decided for some comedy.  He says, "Hey, We got this enemy - the Emissary.  And we have another enemy, Anton Mesmer.  Emissary.  Mesmer.  They're... what do you call 'em?  Anagrams!  The Emissary and Mesmer are the same guy!"
> 
> And silence falls over the wooded glen at the sheer stupidity of this statement.  But nobody is willing point out the problem with the logic.
> 
> I'm playing a brilliant, gruff, "does not suffer fools lightly" engineer who has already nearly died twice on the field.  So I call out, in my best incredulous voice*, "There's no Y in 'Mesmer!'"
> 
> Remember that NPC player getting into costume?  He was also the guy who played the NPC Mesmer.  And he's harried, rushing to get his head into a rubber demon-head mask, and he just falls to his knees cracking up.  The entire fight was delayed another 10 minutes because we'd given him a giggle fit he couldn't shake.
> 
> I was later given an award for being the only player to down two villains, who weren't even in a scene, without firing a shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Echoing Tom Hanks in _A League of Their Own_, "There's no crying in baseball!"



So they were the same villain!

proof! Iron Man is the president of the Galaxy and it’s most wanted man!


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> I disbelieve.  People on this website don't get invited to those sorts of parties.



I…. I wasn’t invited…. Exactly….

I was in the loft below.


----------



## darjr

And I still can’t find that underwear.


----------



## Cadence

Ten years of college, twenty-fourth year of work,  sixteen or seventeen years to go assuming the markets don't permanently implode and we don't have WWIII between now and then.

I don't think I have the energy for that kind of party...


----------



## CleverNickName

My favorite kind of party is the kind where they don't play music, everyone just sits in a cozy chair around the fireplace and enjoys each other's company over a glass of bourbon and also stays home.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I disbelieve.  People on this website don't get invited to those sorts of parties.



you're saying that there are no theoretical physicists on this board?


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> My favorite kind of party is the kind where they don't play music, everyone just sits in a cozy chair around the fireplace and enjoys each other's company over a glass of bourbon and also stays home.



I'm pretty much a stay-at-home drinker, as well, though I like good beer as much as I do good whiskey.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> My favorite kind of party is the kind where they don't play music, everyone just sits in a cozy chair around the fireplace and enjoys each other's company over a glass of bourbon and also stays home.



Do you like your dinner by 5pm and at a discount?


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Do you like your dinner by 5pm and at a discount?



I already mentioned the bourbon.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> I'm pretty much a stay-at-home drinker, as well, though I like good beer as much as I do good whiskey.



I'm happy to be out playing cards or just sitting around at a cook-out.  And would also take the Beer over the Whiskey.  I would prefer everyone keep their underwear on!


----------



## CleverNickName

I drink beer a lot more often than I drink bourbon, for sure...especially at barbecues, happy hour, and other social gatherings.  Bourbon is my go-to for quiet snowy evenings at home, which is what I'm expecting to have for the next couple of nights here.  I do love going out and hanging with my friends, but my adventurous spirit wilts quickly in bad weather.


----------



## payn

I gotta be out an about. Strolling under the neon at midnight. Bar hop, bar fly, any shop is a good stop. Hollowing at the moon until the wee hours. The music never ends. Occasionally, I'll sit around the fire table out back with some good friends. Music is going all night if we aint makin it ourselves.


----------



## trappedslider

speaking of Parties


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Umbran said:


> I disbelieve.  People on this website don't get invited to those sorts of parties.


----------



## prabe

Isn't there enough bad gaming advice on the Internet? Why invoke Poe's Law thus?


----------



## CleverNickName

All this talk about parties inspired me to create another poll.








						What's Your Idea of a Party?
					

So we're talking about parties over in that other thread, and it made me wonder: what is YOUR idea of a party?  Vote for up to 5.  Mix and match!




					www.enworld.org


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> Actually, last night I was watching this scene and a different kid was prominently shown at the funeral and I had no idea who the hell they were.



So, my wife suffers from face blindness. Like, she remembers names and how people sound (which I don't), but if people have vaguely the same hair color/eye color/face structure, she has trouble telling them apart. So she's watching Penny Dreadful's third season, and 



Spoiler: SPOILERS FOR THE PENNY DREADFUL SHOW



she says to me at one point, "It's so nice they let Vanessa Ives have a relationship with a nice, normal guy for a change." She was 7 episodes in and hadn't realized the "nice guy" was Dracula "in disguise" though they made no attempt in filming to hide who it was. It was, in fact, a big "surprise" bit at the end of episode 2, I think. I had to say something, or else she'd have been really confused at the ending in 2 episodes.


----------



## el-remmen

Sometimes when I come back into this void of a thread to scream into it, I find that by the time I have caught up with all the shennanigans since the last time I posted here I have forgotten what I came here to accomplish.

In other words, this thread works!  

Oh I remember: It wasn't so much a complaint as it was pointing out that sometimes I play a game when reading other people's posts called "Mental Break or Arguing with someone I've Blocked?"


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes when I come back into this void of a thread to scream into it, I find that by the time I have caught up with all the shennanigans since the last time I posted here I have forgotten what I came here to accomplish.
> 
> In other words, this thread works!
> 
> Oh I remember: It wasn't so much a complaint as it was pointing out that sometimes I play a game when reading other people's posts called "Mental Break or Arguing with someone I've Blocked?"


----------



## darjr

This thread? Absolutely. But I like the paragraphs of detail on pandas anyway.


----------



## Cadence

The middle schooler in the house says it looks like a D&D club at school is a go next year!


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> The middle schooler in the house says it looks like a D&D club at school is a go next year!



Yeas!


----------



## darjr

It’s 88, yesterday it was 60, tomorrow after the thunderstorms and tornadoes it’ll be in the 40s. At least I got to enjoy the warmth and magnolias. Note they are a little burnt because a few days ago it was below freezing.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> It’s 88, yesterday it was 60, tomorrow after the thunderstorms and tornadoes it’ll be in the 40s. At least I got to enjoy the warmth and magnolias. Note they are a little burnt because a few days ago it was below freezing.



Ah, spring!


----------



## darjr

So the 88 degree temps have really cold strands of wind mixed mix in. Shivering cold. Weird.


----------



## prabe

That might go some way toward explaining why y'all are getting tornadic thunderstorms tomorrow.


----------



## darjr

The winds are kinda going all vertical now too. Seeing random debri flying around way over head is a Nebraska kind of thing.


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> The winds are kinda going all vertical now too. Seeing random debri flying around way over head is a Nebraska kind of thing.



Stay safe and enjoy the show.


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> The winds are kinda going all vertical now too. Seeing random debri flying around way over head is a Nebraska kind of thing.



Yeap, the midwest has strange weather.


----------



## RealAlHazred

In NJ, we say, "It's Spring. Don't like the weather? Wait 5 minutes!" I mean, I'm certain they say that all over, but it really seems true!


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> In NJ, we say, "It's Spring. Don't like the weather? Wait 5 minutes!" I mean, I'm certain they say that all over, but it really seems true!



In MN we say if 80 is too hot for you today, I got good news, it will be 40 tomorrow.


----------



## Cadence

"I think it apparently destroys peoples' brains."


----------



## J.Quondam

We have an extremely varied climate here : hot and sunny with wind; hot and sunny with a lot of wind; and hot and sunny with a whole lot of wind. Sometimes the wind is also stinky, for extra _je ne sais quoi_.


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> We have an extremely varied climate here in oil patch TX: hot and sunny with wind; hot and sunny with a lot of wind; and hot and sunny with a whole lot of wind. Sometimes the wind is also stinky, for extra _je ne sais quoi_.



Listen, TX gets a weather pass from me, due in no small part to the horrifying 1900 Galveston Hurricane.


----------



## dragoner

J.Quondam said:


> We have an extremely varied climate here in oil patch TX: hot and sunny with wind; hot and sunny with a lot of wind; and hot and sunny with a whole lot of wind. Sometimes the wind is also stinky, for extra _je ne sais quoi_.



Go bulldogs, Midland was the only place where a dust devil hit the truck, went through the drivers window, and out the passenger window, filling the cab with dust.


----------



## darjr

Our dust devils are others tornadoes. And kids play in them.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I live on the Oregon Coast, so it rains all the time. We get more days that have some form of rain and/or hail in them than we do purely dry days.


----------



## dragoner

darjr said:


> Our dust devils are others tornadoes. And kids play in them.



Also gully washers, that turn streets into rivers, because there aren't storm drains.


----------



## Jacob Lewis




----------



## dragoner

East Texas feels worse because it's humid.


----------



## Umbran

Jacob Lewis said:


> View attachment 155256




On a gaming messageboard, I believe this is the canonical form...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

So ...  I am mostly recovered from a nasty bout with the flu. And this was a aggressively unfun one; not only did it come with the high fever, it was also like a fine Australian table wine (or a slice of New Zealand pizza) - it really opened the sluice gate at both ends.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So ...  I am mostly recovered from a nasty bout with the flu. And this was a aggressively unfun one; not only did it come with the high fever, it was also like a fine Australian table wine (or a slice of New Zealand pizza) - it really opened the sluice gate at both ends.



Glad you are on the mend. A few weeks ago I had fever so high I thought my bedsheets would catch fire.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So ...  I am mostly recovered from a nasty bout with the flu. And this was a aggressively unfun one; not only did it come with the high fever, it was also like a fine Australian table wine (or a slice of New Zealand pizza) - it really opened the sluice gate at both ends.



Glad you're feeling better.

I'm recovering well from a bout with something not the flu, except for the fact my sense of smell has been substantially muted. I'm figuring it'll be back, but so many of my small daily pleasures (coffee, food, beer) will be less pleasurable for a while, I fear.


----------



## J.Quondam

Does the "get the last word" require a high or low initiative roll? Or is it more of a "ready an action" sort of thing?


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> Does the "get the last word" require a high or low initiative roll? Or is it more of a "ready an action" sort of thing?



It's in the retreat encounter rules, which dont work.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Does the "get the last word" require a high or low initiative roll? Or is it more of a "ready an action" sort of thing?



I think that's more associated with doing a lot of damage--they don't talk back (much) if you kill them.


----------



## Gradine

This is why protection against against psychic damage is so helpful


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> you're saying that there are no theoretical physicists on this board?




If they were theoretical physicists, the act of signing up for a membership would prove their existence, meaning they were no longer theoretical.




Liane the Wayfarer said:


> In NJ, we say, "It's Spring. Don't like the weather? Wait 5 minutes!" I mean, I'm certain they say that all over, but it really seems true!




 This is basically the whole Northeast. There are times when it's literally raining on one side of a building and sunny on the other.


----------



## Cadence

Some places sure need rain!  (Although getting some without floods and without the tornadoes would be nice).


----------



## el-remmen

Shame on me for sharing something from these boards as a "rumor" when careful reading would have shown me it was more idle speculation and not worth spending a moment's thought on it, let alone sharing it.


----------



## darjr

el-remmen said:


> Shame on me for sharing something from these boards as a "rumor" when careful reading would have shown me it was more idle speculation and not worth spending a moment's thought on it, let alone sharing it.



Ope! Sorry!


----------



## South by Southwest

el-remmen said:


> Shame on me for sharing something from these boards as a "rumor" when careful reading would have shown me it was more idle speculation and not worth spending a moment's thought on it, let alone sharing it.



You know, I don't think it's really your fault. Over the past two decades I've noticed this: the bigger the internet gets, the _harder_ it becomes to fact-check things effectively. I'd have expected it to get easier, but it seems actually to be harder.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Ope! Sorry!



You aren't really going to monetize your farts!?!?


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> You aren't really going to monetize your farts!?!?



No…..

Maybe??????

OK what if I promise to never do it again?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> No…..
> 
> Maybe??????
> 
> OK what if I promise to never do it again?




Ha! Using the magic of NFTs, I have already monetized your farts.

That's right ... your farts are now on the blockchain. Talk about a GAS fee!


----------



## darjr

But… those are mine…


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> But… those are mine…



But the certificates of authenticity aren't!


----------



## South by Southwest

I keep finding myself making unnecessary quips in threads because I'm bored and don't want to do my writing work, but I know those posts of mine contribute nothing. Nothing. So this is my catch-all for all the variously clever, cute, stupid things I'd otherwise say today. Just trust me: they're all of them either clever, cute, or very stupid. Promise.


----------



## Cadence

"I still don't understand why you... or you.... or you or you or you... play D&D."


----------



## prabe

After like sixty pages, I have to wonder if anyone has had the nerve to say, "they like it better when it benefits them?"


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> But the certificates of authenticity aren't!



OK. Just know they made me take out insurance in case the jars broke. And not for the danger of broken glass.


----------



## CleverNickName

South by Southwest said:


> You know, I don't think it's really your fault. Over the past two decades I've noticed this: the bigger the internet gets, the _harder_ it becomes to fact-check things effectively. I'd have expected it to get easier, but it seems actually to be harder.



I think this is by design.  The number of people who _want _to be correct far outnumber those who actually _are _correct.

Plus, Hollywood has taught us that things on a computer screen are always correct, and people who use computers are always the smartest people in the room.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ha! Using the magic of NFTs, I have already monetized your farts.
> 
> That's right ... your farts are now on the blockchain. Talk about a GAS fee!


----------



## BookTenTiger

I don't believe that's the name of a podcast.


----------



## CleverNickName

Me:





People on ENWorld:





People on the D&D Beyond forums, probably:


----------



## darjr

See. I was right. For once.

wait. Rally?


----------



## Cadence

I'm imagining a "D&D is the best game because..." (+) thread, and wondering how many people would get in trouble either because they couldn't keep quiet and only had bad stuff to say, or because they couldn't handle the snarky but ostensibly (+) responses by naysayers.

Anyway, I will not be making such a thread.


----------



## J.Quondam

You could try  a "Football is the best game because..." (+) thread, for maximum confusion.


----------



## darjr

4e monster design, brand new WotC online platform, new rules soon?

Uh…..


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> Shame on me for sharing something from these boards as a "rumor" when careful reading would have shown me it was more idle speculation and not worth spending a moment's thought on it, let alone sharing it.



Listen, if major newspapers can't be bothered to do 5 minutes of web-searching to verify even the most basic claims of one of their "sources," I don't know that you can be too hard on yourself.

Unless you're actually a journalist by profession, in which case "Shame on you!" and you really should do 5 minutes of web-searching before publishing anything. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.


----------



## CleverNickName

My players have no sense of humor.

I told them that there were no orcs in my game world.  So of course, one of the players immediately asked if he could play a Half-Orc.  I said "sure, but only the _human _half of it."

I didn't even get a chuckle out of those mirthless killjoys.


----------



## trappedslider

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.



Unless your name is actually ted......


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> Unless your name is actually ted......



Hi Ted!


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> My players have no sense of humor.
> 
> I told them that there were no orcs in my game world.  So of course, one of the players immediately asked if he could play a Half-Orc.  I said "sure, but only the _human _half of it."
> 
> I didn't even get a chuckle out of those mirthless killjoys.





			https://media.giphy.com/media/XDdvIDHasJTW8qJtsn/giphy-downsized-large.gif


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> My players have no sense of humor.
> 
> I told them that there were no orcs in my game world.  So of course, one of the players immediately asked if he could play a Half-Orc.  I said "sure, but only the _human _half of it."
> 
> I didn't even get a chuckle out of those mirthless killjoys.




What about a half-elf?






(Half Elf from the old Grenadier 6006 Comedy Lords box set)


----------



## Gradine

There are still people who think the 3.X tier rankings were good?


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> There are still people who think the 3.X tier rankings were good?




I owe a lot to the 3.X Edition of D&D...it was truly the edition that "saved D&D" from the TSR disaster.  It's the version of D&D that I've played the most, and played the longest.

But after playing 5E, there's no way on this green Earth that I could go back to playing 3.X rules.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I owe a lot to the 3.X Edition of D&D...it was truly the edition that "saved D&D" from the TSR disaster.  It's the version of D&D that I've played the most, and played the longest.
> 
> But after playing 5E, there's no way on this green Earth that I could go back to playing 3.X rules.



I hear ya. Tho, im still kinda Pathfinder classic guy myself.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> I owe a lot to the 3.X Edition of D&D...it was truly the edition that "saved D&D" from the TSR disaster.  It's the version of D&D that I've played the most, and played the longest.
> 
> But after playing 5E, there's no way on this green Earth that I could go back to playing 3.X rules.



I mean, same, and I can even still see the appeal in it (and its offspring) but like... the whole "having a Wizard and a Fighter in the same party is bad" meta always sounded like brainworm logic


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> I owe a lot to the 3.X Edition of D&D...it was truly the edition that "saved D&D" from the TSR disaster.  It's the version of D&D that I've played the most, and played the longest.
> 
> But after playing 5E, there's no way on this green Earth that I could go back to playing 3.X rules.



Yeah, it was what I learned with, but kind of unthinkable now.


----------



## Mad_Jack

I wouldn't mind playing 3.5 again. Of course, I'm one of those dirty optimizers, a dyed-in-the-wool heathen puppy-kicking heretic who likes playing around with all those little fiddly bits...


----------



## Parmandur

So, I feel a bit silly: despite my familial Midwestern roots, I didn't know what all this "Ope!" Business was about.

Just now, I helped my toddler wash her hands, and made a sound tgarat I would have categorized as "Oops", just a standard grunt of "watch out/be careful/whoopsie-daisy," but phonetically was "op." I've been making this sound for years, and was foiled in recognizing it...by a silent E.

Ope!


----------



## darjr

Parmandur said:


> So, I feel a bit silly: despite my familial Midwestern roots, I didn't know what all this "Ope!" Business was about.
> 
> Just now, I helped my toddler wash her hands, and made a sound tgarat I would have categorized as "Oops", just a standard grunt of "watch out/be careful/whoopsie-daisy," but phonetically was "op." I've been making this sound for years, and was foiled in recognizing it...by a silent E.
> 
> Ope!



We all have. Took a Foreigner giggling at me every time I did it to realize my self.

I say y’all a lot too. And I’d get an odd look when I’d do that.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> We all have. Took a Foreigner giggling at me every time I did it to realize my self.
> 
> I say y’all a lot too. And I’d get an odd look when I’d do that.



I mean, how else can you distinguish 2nd person singular from plural, like q civilized language? Your options are to adopt "y'all" or try to bring "thee/thou" back.


----------



## Zardnaar

Food video Waiheke Island. Weather wise it's warm up there think Tuscany type warm.


 Burgers, pizza, oysters, fish and chips. Hipster stuff at the end.


----------



## el-remmen

Even someone who you regularly consider blocking whenever their posts appear (or worse, engages with you) can be right about something. . . sometimes. .  I guess.

(I just hate to admit it).


----------



## Mannahnin

No kidding?  Really?  Please go on!


----------



## darjr

Mannahnin said:


> No kidding?  Really?  Please go on!



No. I think I’ll stop now.

naw just kidding


----------



## Gradine

It turns out that the white room was never empty. It was infested with brainworms


----------



## CleverNickName

Is it possible to love and hate mathematics and D&D in equal measure?
Let's find out!


----------



## Cadence

I'm envisioning "D&D Super Real" -  in depth combat, physical, and social system add ONS for the player who needs it.

* Combat is now down to 0.1 second rounds to minimize the discrete-turn-taking oddities and to allow for super accurate defense maneuvers (knife vs. sword vs. pike vs. bow at different ranges become plausible when the characters move 1 meter per round or less).  Also featuring armor vs. weapon tables and wound charts for bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing. Yes, wounds, hit points and AC are finally split into dozens of wound types, four types of exhaustion, multiple defense maneuvers, and three armor ratings for each body part. Know exactly what the encouraging warlord, skillfull medic, and miraculous cleric can fix, and how long recovery times are.  ("Ooh, sprained thumb from combat and foot fungus from marching... the death spiral starts unless you find a magical healer! No, seriously, let me describe the penalties and how long natural healing takes.").

* You have 10 different physical attributes and 10 different physical skills (each with subskills) that allow you to get reasonably accurate results in all major Olympic sports and adventuring activities (Climbing a rope with only your legs and off hand? We've got a number for that.  Movement rate in stiff leather boots, with a slightly off center 50 pound pack, sword out, after 8 hours of adventuring, and not willing to risk significant exhaustion?  We've got that!").

* On the social side, to use their backgrounds (like hero of the people) or skills (like streetwise) the player has to help the DM by providing needed details on the spot - what heroic things in particular touched this villager's life, tell me about the local barista and how well you tip and what you chat about for that streetwise roll. "If you're not going to describe your cousin's relationship with their boss and the security guard, at least give me more about their personality so I can work out the reactions. Oh, and I need all their stats, sleep schedule, and work hours too." etc...  "So, this is the market you usually shop at. You tell me the availability and prices.  Let's start with grade A large brown organic eggs and go from there.  By the way does the egg merchant have a family, and how are they?"

Once you've mastered it, it's even more realistic (well at least more interesting) than life!*

* But we're not monsters.  No need to track ammunition or damage to armor, and we'll never put your characters acquaintances in harm's way unless you say to.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Gradine said:


> It turns out that the white room was never empty. It was infested with brainworms




 Are those anything like brainweasels?


----------



## J.Quondam

But not as hairy.


----------



## Umbran

So, between the brainworms and the brainweasels are the brainnakedmolerats?


----------



## darjr

I'm on a live stream!


----------



## Cadence

"I love doing improv.  Especially when I get to start it with the ideas I've been thinking of and working out and run with those."


----------



## Jacob Lewis

darjr said:


> I'm on a live stream!



Achievement Unlocked!


----------



## prabe

Somehow I don't think "They stand up, or they fall down, depending," is a _helpful_ answer ...


----------



## darjr

This is going to haunt us when the tests begin.


----------



## darjr

And it’s snowing. It was in the 80s last week. It’ll be in the 90s by Friday.


----------



## Cadence

Pineapple pizza may very well be good, but I wonder if there is a mental whiplash that warps the brains of some of those who were convinced they hated it, and then tried it and liked it.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Pineapple pizza may very well be good, but I wonder if there is a mental whiplash that warps the brains of some of those who were convinced they hated it, and then tried it and liked it.



Curses! We have been discovered!!

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Pineapple pizza may very well be good, but I wonder if there is a mental whiplash that warps the brains of some of those who were convinced they hated it, and then tried it and liked it.



"I don't _need _to know what it tastes like!  I've already told you that I hate it!"


----------



## Zardnaar

I don't mind pineapple in pizza but I don't generally order pizza with it. 

 If there's free Hawaiian available gonna eat it.


----------



## payn

Had pineapple with the Easter ham tonight for dinner. Delicious!


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> Somehow I don't think "They stand up, or they fall down, depending," is a _helpful_ answer ...




Yes, well, sometimes, the truth isn't _helpful_.


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Had pineapple with the Easter ham tonight for dinner. Delicious!




On Tuesday for our game, we'll be feeding the group tacos al pastor, which is a pork taco with pineapple.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Why the _bleep_ are you inviting me to read what you wrote someplace else when you're not even discussing the topic you posted on this site!?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Umbran said:


> So, between the brainworms and the brainweasels are the brainnakedmolerats?



I think I saw the brainnakedmolerats on tour in 96'...


----------



## Cadence

RE: Many IRL and on here...

Maybe you're wrong sometimes too and your case for arugla and eggplant pizza isn't that convincing?

(Your bouncing from being a huge double pineapple fan at one point to then being an advocate for double tuna does make one have doubts...)


----------



## CleverNickName

"All models lie.  Some are also useful."  --statistics proverb


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> RE: Many IRL and on here...
> 
> Maybe you're wrong sometimes too and your case for arugla and eggplant pizza isn't that convincing?
> 
> (Your bouncing from being a huge double pineapple fan at one point to then being an advocate for double tuna does make one have doubts...)



Why not Tuna and pineapple together?


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Why not Tuna and pineapple together?



Not sure how that would shake out. Though, I did have some smoked salmon and pineapple last night that was just fine. So, maybe?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Why not Tuna and pineapple together?




You know ... I stop commenting in this thread for a little while, and what do we see?

New Zealand Pizza Toppings! Tuna and Pineapple blended all up in an unholy concoction! Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You know ... I stop commenting in this thread for a little while, and what do we see?
> 
> New Zealand Pizza Toppings! Tuna and Pineapple blended all up in an unholy concoction! Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!



Let chaos reign.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Why not Tuna and pineapple together?



Compromise fails to fit the idiom.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You know ... I stop commenting in this thread for a little while, and what do we see?
> 
> New Zealand Pizza Toppings! Tuna and Pineapple blended all up in an unholy concoction! Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!





Parmandur said:


> Let chaos reign.



In Portland, we have a variety of food carts, portable restaurants that serve an enormous variety of foods, and food combinations.   It's not uncommon to see spaghetti being served right next to pad thai, or to see corn dogs on the same menu as sushi. 

It's a culinary Wild West out here...no rules, anything goes, the top gun in town gets shot down every few weeks.  Eat kimchi on a hot dog.  Have a bulgolgi burrito.  Ya'll keep saying "pineapple on a pizza, oh the humanity, what is up with New Zealand" and we're out here drinking artisanal marionberry soda with our Scandinavian-Cajun fusion herring po'boy, wondering what all the fuss is about.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> In Portland, we have a variety of food carts, portable restaurants that serve an enormous variety of foods, and food combinations.   It's not uncommon to see spaghetti being served right next to pad thai, or to see corn dogs on the same menu as sushi.
> 
> It's a culinary Wild West out here...no rules, anything goes, the top gun in town gets shot down every few weeks.  Eat kimchi on a hot dog.  Have a bulgolgi burrito.  Ya'll keep saying "pineapple on a pizza, oh the humanity, what is up with New Zealand" and we're out here drinking artisanal marionberry soda with our Scandinavian-Cajun fusion Jarlberg herring-melt po'boy.


----------



## CleverNickName

Welcome back, Snarf.  We missed ya.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Welcome back, Snarf.  We missed ya.




Well, from time to time I am summoned to rain on other people's parades.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> In Portland, we have a variety of food carts, portable restaurants that serve an enormous variety of foods, and food combinations.   It's not uncommon to see spaghetti being served right next to pad thai, or to see corn dogs on the same menu as sushi.
> 
> It's a culinary Wild West out here...no rules, anything goes, the top gun in town gets shot down every few weeks.  Eat kimchi on a hot dog.  Have a bulgolgi burrito.  Ya'll keep saying "pineapple on a pizza, oh the humanity, what is up with New Zealand" and we're out here drinking artisanal marionberry soda with our Scandinavian-Cajun fusion herring po'boy, wondering what all the fuss is about.



The way God intended.


----------



## Mannahnin

I had kimchi on a hot dog (the East Meets West at Industry East in Manchester) a week ago Saturday.  It was delicious.  They also do a crab rangoon hot dog, but that's not my thing.

The chicken piccata popovers were also wonderful.





__





						Menu | Industry East Bar
					






					www.industryeastbar.com


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> The way God intended.




Hardly. 

She would want your food separated, as if it was demarcated into the little bins on an old TV dinner. 

_The road to hell is paved with fusion cuisine. _


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hardly.
> 
> She would want your food separated, as if it was demarcated into the little bins on an old TV dinner.
> 
> _The road to hell is paved with fusion cuisine. _



If that was true, Burritos wouldn't exist.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _The road to hell is paved with fusion cuisine. _



I had some of my high-school buddies visit me a few months ago.  I took them to some of the best restaurants and food carts that Portland had to offer, we took a pub crawl that hit up all the microbreweries, grabbed a Voodoo Donut, the whole "tourist trap experience."  I spent most of the night teasing them relentlessly because they wouldn't eat anything that couldn't be found on a Denny's menu.

The bewildered looks on their faces was priceless.  "Wait, nevermind, they put salt in it!  Who puts _salt _in _chocolate ice cream?!?_  Oh wait, nevermind, I can just get vanilla!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> If that was true, Burritos wouldn't exist.









I mean .... just wrapping up other food in a tortilla doesn't make it acceptable.

Most burritos are just the tuxedo t-shirt of the culinary universe.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean .... just wrapping up other food in a tortilla doesn't make it acceptable.
> 
> Most burritos are just the tuxedo t-shirt of the culinary universe.



That is so beautiful. And yes, yes it does.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> In Portland, we have a variety of food carts, portable restaurants that serve an enormous variety of foods, and food combinations.   It's not uncommon to see spaghetti being served right next to pad thai, or to see corn dogs on the same menu as sushi.
> 
> It's a culinary Wild West out here...no rules, anything goes, the top gun in town gets shot down every few weeks.  Eat kimchi on a hot dog.  Have a bulgolgi burrito.  Ya'll keep saying "pineapple on a pizza, oh the humanity, what is up with New Zealand" and we're out here drinking artisanal marionberry soda with our Scandinavian-Cajun fusion herring po'boy, wondering what all the fuss is about.



In Toronto we have something a little different. Some years back a "heritage building" 'mysteriously' burnt down. It was considered historic because several historic Canadian figures slept there. I'm well informed that the building used to be a brothel, so damned little sleeping was involved.

Anyway, once the site was cleaned up a farm of modified cargo containers sprang up:









						Google Maps
					

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




					goo.gl


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hardly.
> 
> She would want your food separated, as if it was demarcated into the little bins on an old TV dinner.
> 
> _The road to hell is paved with fusion cuisine. _


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, from time to time I am summoned to rain on other people's parades.



Timing… timings…

I dint secretly work for you? Do I?


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean .... just wrapping up other food in a tortilla doesn't make it acceptable.




When orthodoxy gets in the way of people putting food in their mouths, orthodoxy loses.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> When orthodoxy gets in the way of people putting food in their mouths, orthodoxy loses.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean .... just wrapping up other food in a tortilla doesn't make it acceptable.



My city's annual downtown taco crawl has confirmed that truism.  An Indian place I normally quite enjoy one year gave us "chicken korma tacos" which were just their (perfectly nice) korma on cold plain corn tortillas.  Which didn't work well at all.  

OTOH, most of the other restaurants do a much better job.


----------



## CleverNickName

Just because something _can be_ broken, doesn't mean it's broken to begin with.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Wow. There was a thread that I would have participated in a couple of weeks ago if I had known it had existed. I'm kind of glad that I missed out, though.


----------



## Cadence

Nobody wants to think that their views are the ones based on spurious correlations 









						Spurious correlations
					






					www.tylervigen.com


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Nobody wants to think that their views are the ones based on spurious correlations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spurious correlations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tylervigen.com



Look, I'm telling you, women's hemlines correlate _precisely _to the activity of sunspots! If we can shave just _two inches_ off of women's hemlines by Friday, it will cause a coronal mass ejection that will cause massive power disruptions across the East Coast of the United States, during which we can hit the Federal Reserve Building downtown and steal all of the bearer bonds! I have all the calculations here, somewhere, we just need a hacker guy and a team of East German mercenaries...


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Look, I'm telling you, women's hemlines correlate _precisely _to the activity of sunspots! If we can shave just _two inches_ off of women's hemlines by Friday, it will cause a coronal mass ejection that will cause massive power disruptions across the East Coast of the United States, during which we can hit the Federal Reserve Building downtown and steal all of the bearer bonds! I have all the calculations here, somewhere, we just need a hacker guy and a team of East German mercenaries...



Too late.


----------



## trappedslider

You are not compelled to form any opinion about this matter before you, nor to disturb your peace of mind at all. Things in themselves have no power to extort a verdict from you – Marcus Aurelius​


----------



## Mad_Jack

Well, technically... _yes, that's exactly right_... You're attempting to turn something that's entirely a matter of degrees into a binary yes/no paradigm where the dividing lines are arbitrarily set by your personal preferences.


----------



## Cadence

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, technically... _yes, that's exactly right_... You're attempting to turn something that's entirely a matter of degrees into a binary yes/no paradigm where the dividing lines are arbitrarily set by your personal preferences.



Is there a thread on here that doesn't apply too?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> Is there a thread on here that doesn't apply too?




 Yup, that one right over there --->  Oh, wait... no... That was an actual thread stuck to my monitor screen. Nevermind.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

"X thing doesn't matter at all, and I hate that Y happened."

"It might not matter a lot, but it does matter. The fact that you care about this topic proves this."

"So you're saying that it matters more than literally everything else!!! See how extreme your opinion is!?!?"

I swear, this exact exchange has happened literally dozens of times on this site over the past two years.


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> "X thing doesn't matter at all, and I hate that Y happened."
> 
> "It might not matter a lot, but it does matter. The fact that you care about this topic proves this."
> 
> "So you're saying that it matters more than literally everything else!!! See how extreme your opinion is!?!?"
> 
> I swear, this exact exchange has happened literally dozens of times on this site over the past two years.



"But I don't care about the thing. That's why I came here to say that I don't care about the thing."


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, technically... _yes, that's exactly right_... You're attempting to turn something that's entirely a matter of degrees into a binary yes/no paradigm where the dividing lines are arbitrarily set by your personal preferences.




Well, yeah.  How else are you supposed to win the argument and probve the other person is Wrongity-wrong, with wrong sauce?


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> Well, yeah.  How else are you supposed to win the argument and probve the other person is Wrongity-wrong, with wrong sauce?



It's not about winning or losing, arguing is just fun. It's about the journey, not the destination.


----------



## Deset Gled

Parmandur said:


> It's not about winning or losing, arguing is just fun. It's about the journey, not the destination.




One of the things I miss about 3.x edition was really good, high quality rules arguments.  The rules lawyering we get in 5e just isn't up to par.


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> It's not about winning or losing, arguing is just fun. It's about the journey, not the destination.




This is belied by all the insults that get worked into it.  Sorry.


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> This is belied by all the insults that get worked into it.  Sorry.



That's wht the ignore option is for, when the fun stops and becomes tedium.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> One of the things I miss about 3.x edition was really good, high quality rules arguments.  The rules lawyering we get in 5e just isn't up to par.



Don't make the language in rules ambiguous, if you don't want me to rules lawyer the crap out of it


----------



## Parmandur

Deset Gled said:


> One of the things I miss about 3.x edition was really good, high quality rules arguments.  The rules lawyering we get in 5e just isn't up to par.



I mean, they fixed it, what is there to argue about?

Arguing about anything is just as good. Like pizza toppings.


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> That's wht the ignore option is for, when the fun stops and becomes tedium.




So, you see, the fact that you need that proves your assertion wrong.  If, to the assembled posters, it were about the "fun of arguing," folks can and would just politely disengage.  The fact that you need to force the issue is evidence that it isn't about "fun of arguing."


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> So, you see, the fact that you need that proves your assertion wrong.  If, to the assembled posters, it were about the "fun of arguing," folks can and would just politely disengage.  The fact that you need to force the issue is evidence that it isn't about "fun of arguing."



Yet here we are, having fun. At least I am. You see, we can circle over and over and over because in my bloviation I could argue about the exact shade of blue in the sky all afternoon. Because it's fun!

Journey, not the destination.

I see what you did there, too.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Arguing about anything is just as good. Like pizza toppings.




_“Spokane-style pizza is the most underrated pizza,” Scherer says in the video before plopping dough into a baking dish to begin the cooking demo. “You start off with with a Pyrex [glass pan], because Spokane actually invented the casserole.” He goes on to pile the dough with fry sauce, canned salmon, bell peppers, onions, a ton of mozzarella, and strawberries. After the pie’s baked off, he adds another zig-zag drizzle of fry sauce on top. Scherer claims that the concoction is “awesome” and that “I can see why the entire city of Spokane... really loves this pizza.”_


----------



## Umbran

Parmandur said:


> Yet here we are, having fun.




No.  I'm not having fun.  I am trying to combat an inaccurate of how discourse actually happens on this site, because this myth provides cover for bad behavior that I am tasked with addressing.  Basically, you're making my job harder.  Please rethink your position.


----------



## Mannahnin

This is pretty meta, man.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> This is pretty meta, man.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Deset Gled said:


> One of the things I miss about 3.x edition was really good, high quality rules arguments.  The rules lawyering we get in 5e just isn't up to par.




 I really do miss some of the 3.5 rules arguments - these days, you can't get more than half a page into a discussion before somebody starts in with the "No, that's wrong, and you're stupid. And you smell funny."...
Some of the folks on the old WotC CharOp forums were among the most skilled and articulate debaters I've ever had the pleasure of listening to.


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> I really do miss some of the 3.5 rules arguments - these days, you can't get more than half a page into a discussion before somebody starts in with the "No, that's wrong, and you're stupid. And you smell funny."...
> Some of the folks on the old WotC CharOp forums were among the most skilled and articulate debaters I've ever had the pleasure of listening to.



Yeap, these days the arguments about what the rules should be and how they should work instead of how they do.


----------



## Gradine

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, technically... _yes, that's exactly right_... You're attempting to turn something that's entirely a matter of degrees into a binary yes/no paradigm where the dividing lines are arbitrarily set by your personal preferences.



Yeah, this is basically my entire life


----------



## Gradine

Umbran said:


> So, you see, the fact that you need that proves your assertion wrong.  If, to the assembled posters, it were about the "fun of arguing," folks can and would just politely disengage.  The fact that you need to force the issue is evidence that it isn't about "fun of arguing."



The bulk of the arguments on this board are folks one-true-waying their personal preferences at (or more accurately, _past) _one another. There can be legitimate debate, earnest attempts to sway each other, but mostly it is "This is what _I _think, and it's not like _I'm _going to be wrong". I'm having (traumatic) flashbacks to that one guy who was always banging on about "meta-gaming" versus "role-playing". You know who I'm talking about.

I try to avoid wading into those kinds of discussions; when I let myself get into an argument I'm either doing so semi-ironically, mostly adding jokes to introduce some levity, or it's about something that I know is legitimately harmful, and it gets to the point that I don't really have a choice but to keeping pounding away at it. I have a very personal stake, for example, of people patronizing the Wizarding World, for both myself and for people I care very deeply about it. And that's certainly not about fun; it's about survival


----------



## Parmandur

Umbran said:


> No.  I'm not having fun.  I am trying to combat an inaccurate of how discourse actually happens on this site, because this myth provides cover for bad behavior that I am tasked with addressing.  Basically, you're making my job harder.  Please rethink your position.



No, I quite accurately have fun with verbal back and forth. I have zero expectation that I will or even can "convince" anybody of anything.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> No, I quite accurately have fun with verbal back and forth. I have zero expectation that I will or even can "convince" anybody of anything.




What?

You aren't dreaming of converting me to the _Dark Side of New Zealand Pizza Toppings?????_


Didn't you know that I have no free will of my own, but I am only subject to the vagaries and whims of internet arguments and/or the marketing departments of Fortune 500 corporations?


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What?
> 
> You aren't dreaming of converting me to the _Dark Side of New Zealand Pizza Toppings?????_
> 
> 
> Didn't you know that I have no free will of my own, but I am only subject to the vagaries and whims of internet arguments and/or the marketing departments of Fortune 500 corporations?



Arguments basically never convince anyone of anything: their main value, other than diversion whilst using the facilities, is for the interlocutor to sharpen their ideas by testing then. I argue for my own growth and increase in knowledge, not someone elses.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Arguments basically never convince anyone of anything: their main value, other than diversion whilst using the facilities, is for the interlocutor to sharpen their ideas by testing then. I argue for my own growth and increase in knowledge, not someone elses.




I find that it is best to avoid arguments; they are always aggravating, and even worse, they might sometimes be convincing.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I find that it is best to avoid arguments; they are always aggravating, and even worse, they might sometimes be convincing.



So... I'm reading that as their being hope to convince you of the merits of tuna and pineapple pizza?


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I find that it is best to avoid arguments; they are always aggravating, and even worse, they might sometimes be convincing.



Partly depends on you define "argument."


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Partly depends on you define "argument."



Oh, you are so sneaky...


----------



## Cadence

When I google: argument pizza
there is a lot about pineapple on there... 

(putting quotes around goes to a very different thing I wasn't expecting)


----------



## South by Southwest

I note with sympathy what Umbran says about how joyless it is to moderate the posts of grown men and women who enjoy being argumentative and some few who insist on always, always Being Right, but I feel honor-bound to defend this much about even our most pedantic and/or combative debaters: over the last few months, I've learned a lot just from reading all the back-and-forth. Yes, some of it does get needlessly prickly, but as a relative newbie, I'm still learning a lot.

Moderating the internet forum squabbles, nit-picking, and flame wars is emotionally draining, though--you have my unequivocal sympathy there, Umbran.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> I note with sympathy what Umbran says about how joyless it is to moderate the posts of grown men and women who enjoy being argumentative and some few who insist on always, always Being Right, but I feel honor-bound to defend this much about even our most pedantic and/or combative debaters: over the last few months, I've learned a lot just from reading all the back-and-forth. Yes, some of it does get needlessly prickly, but as a relative newbie, I'm still learning a lot.
> 
> Moderating the internet forum squabbles, nit-picking, and flame wars is emotionally draining, though--you have my unequivocal sympathy there, Umbran.



I have also taken advantage of the Ignore function, so the really absurd arguments lately have, for me, become one group of people repeating true statements for no discernable reason.


----------



## darjr

There are HUnDREDs of them! It’s like having an elementary schools entire student population of several states as all my bosses simultaneously.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Deset Gled said:


> One of the things I miss about 3.x edition was really good, high quality rules arguments.  The rules lawyering we get in 5e just isn't up to par.



You obviously haven't participated in any threads on D&D Beyond's forums. There have been a lot of rules lawyering and debating over there, for everything from spell components and spellcasting focuses to whether or not Echo Knights count as creatures or objects (continuing months after Jeremy Crawford and Matt Mercer said that they're objects).


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Parmandur said:


> It's about the journey, not the destination.



Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.


----------



## payn

Its getting Sphinxy in here all of a sudden.


----------



## J.Quondam

Personally, I like arguing with the spambots.

这是一堆莫名其妙的汉字，可能包括世界各地随机大学的一些无意义的广告。顺便说一句，它是用谷歌翻译翻译的，所以几乎可以肯定它比我想象的更没有意义！


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.



Cart before horse. Thirty minutes before swimming.


----------



## CleverNickName

Now people are just quoting common proverbs, while inserting D&D game terms into them.

"Never look a gift dragon in the mouth."
"You can lead a horse to water, but it will pass it's Con save."
"Fool me once, shame on me.  Fool me twice, I make an Insight check."
"A bird in the hand defeats bounded accuracy."


----------



## J.Quondam

"Wise men make proverbs. Bards repeat them."


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Ryujin said:


> Cart before horse. Thirty minutes before swimming.



(I was quoting the Stormlight Archive, in case no one understood that reference.)


----------



## Deset Gled

AcererakTriple6 said:


> You obviously haven't participated in any threads on D&D Beyond's forums. There have been a lot of rules lawyering and debating over there, for everything from spell components and spellcasting focuses to whether or not Echo Knights count as creatures or objects (continuing months after Jeremy Crawford and Matt Mercer said that they're objects).





I absolutely haven't.  Maybe I'll go check it out, though.  Could be fun.


----------



## Cadence

I'd be upset and angry too if I still loved pineapple arugula pizza shakes, and people kept reminding me how the chunks clogged up the straws.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> I'd be upset and angry too if I still loved pineapple arugula pizza shakes, and people kept reminding me how the chunks clogged up the straws.



That's why you need a better blender, one with...Total Crushing Technology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> That's why you need a better blender, one with...Total Crushing Technology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Maybe I should try with our new one ...


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Maybe I should try with our new one ...
> 
> View attachment 155594



Oh, wow, it's almost like they mass produced those and sold them at Target! Twinsies!


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> Oh, wow, it's almost like they mass produced those and sold them at Target! Twinsies!



A friend of mine used a labeling gun to rename his "BASS-O-MATIC"


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Oh, wow, it's almost like they mass produced those and sold them at Target! Twinsies!




The real secret is to leave out the pizza and toppings and but in ice, good vanilla ice cream, frozen Pina colada mix, Cruzan banana rum, and Bacardi coconut rum.


----------



## Cadence

On other things - Maybe he lives in a town of DMs?  I've heard they can be that way.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> The real secret is to leave out the pizza and toppings and but in ice, good vanilla ice cream, frozen Pina colada mix, Cruzan banana rum, and Bacardi coconut rum.



Man, I've really been doing that wrong...


----------



## BookTenTiger

Do you think folks just copy and paste their arguments from the previous thread or go through the motion of typing it all out again?


----------



## prabe

BookTenTiger said:


> Do you think folks just copy and paste their arguments from the previous thread or go through the motion of typing it all out again?



Yes.


----------



## Parmandur

BookTenTiger said:


> Do you think folks just copy and paste their arguments from the previous thread or go through the motion of typing it all out again?



Practice makes perfect.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

So I was thinking of the general etiquette of the reply to a reply.

Used to be that I did a pretty decent job of responding to everyone that replied (or "at-ed") me. Now ... not so much. There are a lot of reasons for this, including, but not limited to, the following:

1. I think that what I originally wrote speaks for itself, and I don't feel like getting in a fiery internet debate conversation about it.

2. I think what the person wrote is perfectly reasonable, and I have nothing in particular to add.

3. I think what the person wrote is utter crud, and I don't feel like bringing down the power of 1000 heated suns of outrage engaging with them.

4. I can't possibly respond to every person who demands my presence regarding bards, dead-eyed elves, and terrible pizza topping, because then I wouldn't have time to write other things, like post non-sensical animated gifs and boring histories about OD&D and 1e. But don't worry- I am paying attention, and when the revolution comes you will be the first against the wall.

5. I look at it, and see .... IT'S A TRAP!

6. I am on my third cocktail, and I have better things to do. 

Anyway, I was wondering what other people thought or felt. Generally, when you reply to someone or "at" them, do you expect them to reply? Are you disappointed when they don't? Do you have any expectations and/or think that there is an etiquette to this?

Finally, have you ever had raisins on pizza, and if so, do you consider yourself a garden-variety monster, or some kind of Tarrasque-level monster?


----------



## Ryujin

No, but I've had sunflower seeds. So does that make me Fae, or some sort of corporeal undead?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So I was thinking of the general etiquette of the reply to a reply.
> 
> Used to be that I did a pretty decent job of responding to everyone that replied (or "at-ed") me. Now ... not so much. There are a lot of reasons for this, including, but not limited to, the following:
> 
> 1. I think that what I originally wrote speaks for itself, and I don't feel like getting in a fiery internet debate conversation about it.
> 
> 2. I think what the person wrote is perfectly reasonable, and I have nothing in particular to add.
> 
> 3. I think what the person wrote is utter crud, and I don't feel like bringing down the power of 1000 heated suns of outrage engaging with them.
> 
> 4. I can't possibly respond to every person who demands my presence regarding bards, dead-eyed elves, and terrible pizza topping, because then I wouldn't have time to write other things, like post non-sensical animated gifs and boring histories about OD&D and 1e. But don't worry- I am paying attention, and when the revolution comes you will be the first against the wall.
> 
> 5. I look at it, and see .... IT'S A TRAP!
> 
> 6. I am on my third cocktail, and I have better things to do.
> 
> Anyway, I was wondering what other people thought or felt. Generally, when you reply to someone or "at" them, do you expect them to reply? Are you disappointed when they don't? Do you have any expectations and/or think that there is an etiquette to this?
> 
> Finally, have you ever had raisins on pizza, and if so, do you consider yourself a garden-variety monster, or some kind of Tarrasque-level monster?



If I ask a question for clarification I expect a reply, but if I dont get one I wont be sad. It is a public discussion board after all, so I expect exchanges. Though, its not a one on one discussion either, so if I want to ignore a post I will.


----------



## darjr

How dare you! JR was SHOT for your entertainment!


----------



## prabe

I think there are probably about as any reasons to respond to someone as not to. I think even if I don't feel like responding I might "like" a reasonable response so someone doesn't feel as though they're shouting into the void.


----------



## Mannahnin

prabe said:


> I think there are probably about as any reasons to respond to someone as not to. I think even if I don't feel like responding I might "like" a reasonable response so someone doesn't feel as though they're shouting into the void.



Yup. Sometimes this.

It really depends on the reply and the context.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So I was thinking of the general etiquette of the reply to a reply.
> 
> Used to be that I did a pretty decent job of responding to everyone that replied (or "at-ed") me. Now ... not so much. There are a lot of reasons for this, including, but not limited to, the following:
> 
> 1. I think that what I originally wrote speaks for itself, and I don't feel like getting in a fiery internet debate conversation about it.
> 
> 2. I think what the person wrote is perfectly reasonable, and I have nothing in particular to add.
> 
> 3. I think what the person wrote is utter crud, and I don't feel like bringing down the power of 1000 heated suns of outrage engaging with them.
> 
> 4. I can't possibly respond to every person who demands my presence regarding bards, dead-eyed elves, and terrible pizza topping, because then I wouldn't have time to write other things, like post non-sensical animated gifs and boring histories about OD&D and 1e. But don't worry- I am paying attention, and when the revolution comes you will be the first against the wall.
> 
> 5. I look at it, and see .... IT'S A TRAP!
> 
> 6. I am on my third cocktail, and I have better things to do.
> 
> Anyway, I was wondering what other people thought or felt. Generally, when you reply to someone or "at" them, do you expect them to reply? Are you disappointed when they don't? Do you have any expectations and/or think that there is an etiquette to this?
> 
> Finally, have you ever had raisins on pizza, and if so, do you consider yourself a garden-variety monster, or some kind of Tarrasque-level monster?



About half the replies I get to my posts are people telling me I'm wrong or that they would never use my house rule, so I try to balance that out by actively replying to posts I agree with.

I think if we didn't have the Like button, there would be a lot more posts for agreements.


----------



## payn

Mannahnin said:


> Yup. Sometimes this.
> 
> It really depends on the reply and the context.



Exactly. Sometimes I, and many others, drop a loaded sentence and walk away. When really that sentence ought to be unpacked and the proper context revealed. Once folks know where they are at though, I will leave a R.A.T.T situation instead of going round and round treading the same ground expecting the conversation to ever change.


----------



## Gradine

BookTenTiger said:


> About half the replies I get to my posts are people telling me I'm wrong or that they would never use my house rule, so I try to balance that out by actively replying to posts I agree with.
> 
> I think if we didn't have the Like button, there would be a lot more posts for agreements.



That's a pretty good point; "Likes" tend to serve as filler for agreement, while the actual thread gets filled up with folx who have no other way to voice their disagreement than through posting.


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> That's a pretty good point; "Likes" tend to serve as filler for agreement, while the actual thread gets filled up with folx who have no other way to voice their disagreement than through posting.



That is only natural. Disagreement can be clarifying discussion and/or offering an alternative opinion which is difficult to do through a simple like/+1 system. Unless, of course, they want to add the green puke emoji lol.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So I was thinking of the general etiquette of the reply to a reply.
> 
> Used to be that I did a pretty decent job of responding to everyone that replied (or "at-ed") me. Now ... not so much. There are a lot of reasons for this, including, but not limited to, the following:
> 
> 1. I think that what I originally wrote speaks for itself, and I don't feel like getting in a fiery internet debate conversation about it.
> 
> 2. I think what the person wrote is perfectly reasonable, and I have nothing in particular to add.
> 
> 3. I think what the person wrote is utter crud, and I don't feel like bringing down the power of 1000 heated suns of outrage engaging with them.
> 
> 4. I can't possibly respond to every person who demands my presence regarding bards, dead-eyed elves, and terrible pizza topping, because then I wouldn't have time to write other things, like post non-sensical animated gifs and boring histories about OD&D and 1e. But don't worry- I am paying attention, and when the revolution comes you will be the first against the wall.
> 
> 5. I look at it, and see .... IT'S A TRAP!
> 
> 6. I am on my third cocktail, and I have better things to do.
> 
> Anyway, I was wondering what other people thought or felt. Generally, when you reply to someone or "at" them, do you expect them to reply? Are you disappointed when they don't? Do you have any expectations and/or think that there is an etiquette to this?
> 
> Finally, have you ever had raisins on pizza, and if so, do you consider yourself a garden-variety monster, or some kind of Tarrasque-level monster?



For one, two, and maybe four I at least try to hit like if or something if it was a reasonable post and I have nothing to add.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ugh.  This is the third Monday this week.


----------



## Deset Gled

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Used to be that I did a pretty decent job of responding to everyone that replied (or "at-ed") me. Now ... not so much.
> ...
> Anyway, I was wondering what other people thought or felt. Generally, when you reply to someone or "at" them, do you expect them to reply? Are you disappointed when they don't? Do you have any expectations and/or think that there is an etiquette to this?




IMHO, the line between trying to respond to everyone that replies and trying to get in the last word can be a very thin and dangerous line to walk.

There are times when I'm more disappointed by poor responses than a lack of one.  If someone is just going to double down on their opinion or turn things personal, I'd much rather see a "like" on an opposing post than a reply to mine. Sometimes it's better to be passed over than actively ignored or insulted.

Also, a lot of the time I'm replying to someone simply because they were the last to reference a specific thing I want to reference, and there's other posts in between about different topics.  A quote can be part of a transition or a connecting thought in discussion, not because I'm trying to call out that specific person.  A reply may quote an individual, but it's still suposed to be part of the a public thread, not a one-on-one discussion.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Anyway, I was wondering what other people thought or felt. Generally, when you reply to someone or "at" them, do you expect them to reply? Are you disappointed when they don't? Do you have any expectations and/or think that there is an etiquette to this?



I had a lengthy reply to this in my head, but when I sat down to write it I thought, "What would that accomplish? It would be a lot of verbiage and possibly outrage, full of sound and fury... signifying nothing.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> Finally, have you ever had raisins on pizza, and if so, do you consider yourself a garden-variety monster, or some kind of Tarrasque-level monster?


----------



## CleverNickName

I've been saying that for years, @Liane the Wayfarer :  Chicago-style "pizza" isn't a pizza, it's a casserole. 
(A _friggin' delicious_ casserole, but still:  it's a casserole.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I've been saying that for years, @Liane the Wayfarer :  Chicago-style "pizza" isn't a pizza, it's a casserole.
> (A _friggin' delicious_ casserole, but still:  it's a casserole.)




Casserole comes from the Latin for _Bathtub of Sadness._


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Casserole comes from the Latin for _Bathtub of Sadness._


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Casserole comes from the Latin for _Bathtub of Sadness._



Oh I dunno, I grew up in the Protestant church, in the southern U.S.A...so I know a thing or two about casseroles and sadness.

And a good casserole is a thing of beauty:



_Macaroni & Cheese is a casserole, after all._




_And so is lasagna, baked ziti, and manicotti._




_And scalloped potatoes, potatoes au gratin..._


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Oh I dunno, I grew up in the Protestant church, in the southern U.S.A...so I know a thing or two about casseroles and sadness.
> 
> And a good casserole is a thing of beauty:
> View attachment 155629
> 
> View attachment 155630
> 
> View attachment 155631



In MN we call casserole haute dish.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Oh I dunno, I grew up in the Protestant church, in the southern U.S.A...so I know a thing or two about casseroles and sadness.
> 
> And a good casserole is a thing of beauty:




The only good thing about casseroles is that you can pronounce the last e as if it had acute accent (like it rhymes with "ravioli").

_Hey-a. Did Chef Boyardee make those raviolis and casseroles?_

If nothing else, not only do you get your own amusement, but it tends to stop the flood of casseroles.


----------



## CleverNickName

A flood of casseroles, you say?  (opens HEC-RAS)
Here, in my town?  (starts measuring the watershed)
Gosh, that's...um, terrible?  (begins designing a retention basin)
I wonder how long it'll last?  (discreetly ties on a bib, picks up a fork)


----------



## payn

Behold, a pale horse the raisin casserole...


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Behold, a pale horse the raisin casserole...



We call that "bread pudding" back home.  (It's awesome, btw.)  Folks who are raisin-adverse use dried apples or dried apricots instead.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The only good thing about casseroles is that you can pronounce the last e as if it had acute accent (like it rhymes with "ravioli").
> 
> _Hey-a. Did Chef Boyardee make those raviolis and casseroles?_
> 
> If nothing else, not only do you get your own amusement, but it tends to stop the flood of casseroles.




_"Leave the gun. Take the casserole."


._


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> Unless, of course, they want to add the green puke emoji lol.










fake e: We got rid of the negative react buttons for a reason!


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> Folks who are raisin-adverse *are the saddest people*



I fixed that for you


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> I fixed that for you




Nobody in the history of the world has ever liked raisins.

You add raisins to cookies to make sure they taste terrible and no one eats them.

Fundamentally, the raisin is nothing more than a reminder that a grape died without even getting the chance to become wine.


----------



## CleverNickName

....have you ever eaten a meal that you liked, Snarf?




...




...are you _sure_?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> ....have you ever eaten a meal that you liked, Snarf?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...are you _sure_?




Of course I have!

It's pretty simple ...

The meals that I eat are awesome.

The meals that you eat .... well, at best they are questionable. At worst they are an affront to all that is good and decent, and most likely that meal kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.


----------



## payn

As long as we can all agree that beets are awesome...


----------



## darjr

I know the future!

Five years from now it’ll be five years from now.


----------



## Parmandur

darjr said:


> I know the future!
> 
> Five years from now it’ll be five years from now.



I mean, unless it isn't. I hope it is.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> I mean, unless it isn't. I hope it is.




2020 and 2021 lasted *at least* three years each.

The jury is still out on 2022 ... but it's not looking great.


----------



## darjr

But if 2022 lasts five years it’ll still be five years from now.
I know, your welcome.


----------



## Gradine

As long as we can all agree that the food of the gods is none other than Yakisoba Pan


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> As long as we can all agree that beets are awesome...



Sautéed up with carrots, tamari, and cumin they sure are!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> As long as we can all agree that the food of the gods is none other than Yakisoba Pan




Huh .... that is something _checks .... googles .... verifies .... feels ashamed and may need to turn in his hoity-toity gastonome Platinum card_ ...

I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT.

Great. Now I am going to have to seek it out to determine if it is Snarf-approved, and therefore I will lord it over others, or if it needs to be consigned to the dustbin of raisin-infused casseroles.


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> As long as we can all agree that the food of the gods is none other than Yakisoba Pan



Why can't the good stuff ever be low carb?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Why can't the good stuff ever be low carb?




I realized the other day that I wasn't insufferable enough, so I decided to go on a vegan keto diet.

LET ME TELL YOU ALL ABOUT IT!!!!!!!


----------



## CleverNickName

Captain Picard:  "Tea, Earl Grey, hot.  Vegan."
Riker:  "You know, you can just order it without milk."
Captain Picard:  "I could, but then how will it know I'm vegan?"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Captain Picard:  "Tea, Earl Grey, hot.  Vegan."
> Riker:  "You know, you can just order it without milk."
> Captain Picard:  "I could, but then how will it know I'm vegan?"




Q. What does a Vegan Zombie eat?

A.


Spoiler



GRRAAAAIIIIINNNNNSSSS!!!!!!!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I realized the other day that I wasn't insufferable enough, so I decided to go on a vegan keto diet.
> 
> LET ME TELL YOU ALL ABOUT IT!!!!!!!



Believe me when I say that when you're diagnosed as diabetic, you start to realize how many of your "comfort foods" are almost completely off the table. For some reason I'm finding that my meds work better on sugar, than they do on carbs.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Believe me when I say that when you're diagnosed as diabetic, you start to realize how many of your "comfort foods" are almost completely off the table. For some reason I'm finding that my meds work better on sugar, than they do on carbs.




Oof. That's rough. 

I think a lot of people forget how hard it can be to eat healthy. There are large and vested interests that want you to eat badly, and eat a lot.

I almost never watch broadcast TV, but when I do, it's usually something sports-related. I was watching an NBA playoff game and I realized I was getting so hungry ... and then I remembered that at least 50% of the ads were for fast food or pizza.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Q. What does a Vegan Zombie eat?
> 
> A.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> GRRAAAAIIIIINNNNNSSSS!!!!!!!



...and the gluten free zombie?


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> ...and the gluten free zombie?



Same answer. Not all grains contain gluten.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Same answer. Not all grains contain gluten.


----------



## CleverNickName

Spend an hour on any of the popular fitness websites, reading the food articles and skimming the ad banners, and you'll come away thinking that the healthiest and most environmentally-friendly food that any person could eat is a vegan, gluten-free, sugar-free, low-sodium one.  If such a food exists, you would be able to eat limitless amounts of it!

Well I have good news:




I have high cholesterol, so to protect my heart I have to carefully watch the amount of fat and fiber that I eat every day.  The low-carb diets are great for people whose bodies can't process sugar or insulin very well...but they're my Kryptonite: little to no fiber, and nearly twice as much saturated fat as recommended by the USDA.  It's the direct opposite of what my doctor recommends.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Oof. That's rough.
> 
> I think a lot of people forget how hard it can be to eat healthy. There are large and vested interests that want you to eat badly, and eat a lot.
> 
> I almost never watch broadcast TV, but when I do, it's usually something sports-related. I was watching an NBA playoff game and I realized I was getting so hungry ... and then I remembered that at least 50% of the ads were for fast food or pizza.



It's not all bad. Doc says that with the meds and diet, I'm effectively "not diabetic" anymore. The meds are minimal and I may eventually not need them anymore. I can still have the fun stuff. I just can't sit down to a whole large bag of Doritos, or a half a bag of cookies. Over the past few years I've lost 40 pounds (lost 50, but eventually rebounded by 10), which seems to be extremely unusual from what I'm told.


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> Spend an hour on any of the popular fitness websites, reading the food articles and skimming the ad banners, and you'll come away thinking that the healthiest and most environmentally-friendly food that any person could eat is a vegan, gluten-free, sugar-free, low-sodium one.  If such a food exists, you would be able to eat limitless amounts of it!
> 
> Well I have good news:
> View attachment 155639
> 
> I have high cholesterol, so to protect my heart I have to carefully watch the amount of fat and fiber that I eat every day.  The low-carb diets are great for people whose bodies can't process sugar or insulin very well...but they're my Kryptonite: little to no fiber, and nearly twice as much saturated fat as recommended by the USDA.  It's the direct opposite of what my doctor recommends.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Spend an hour on any of the popular fitness websites, reading the food articles and skimming the ad banners, and you'll come away thinking that the healthiest and most environmentally-friendly food that any person could eat is a vegan, gluten-free, sugar-free, low-sodium one.  If such a food exists, you would be able to eat limitless amounts of it!



Water, and you can even poison yourself with it, in sufficient quantities.


----------



## Gradine

The healthiest way to eat is to eat what makes you feel good.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> The healthiest way to eat is to eat what makes you feel good.




I’m not sure a diet consisting entirely of cocktails, drugs, sex, and floating in the pool is what the doctor would order.

….but I’m not going to argue against it, either.


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> The healthiest way to eat is to eat what makes you feel good.



Yeah. I'd be dead.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Yeah. I'd be dead.



Wouldn't we all?


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Captain Picard Tea OrderCaptain Picard:  "Tea, Earl Grey, hot.  Vegan."
> Riker:  "You know, you can just order it without milk."
> Captain Picard:  "I could, but then how will it know I'm vegan?"


----------



## Deset Gled

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> pic




If I saw deep-fried earl gray tea at a county fair, I would happily and un-ironically pay to try some.


----------



## Gradine

Gradine said:


> The healthiest way to eat is to eat what makes you feel good.



This is not me being flippant or unserious, by the way. Diets are universally scams and legitimately worse for your health in the long-term than eating the things that your body craves*

*drugs and intoxicants notwithstanding, I am still talking about _food _here


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> This is not me being flippant or unserious, by the way. Diets are universally scams and legitimately worse for your health in the long-term than eating the things that your body craves*
> 
> *drugs and intoxicants notwithstanding, I am still talking about _food _here



This is true on a lot of levels.  For me, I find that a diet is easier to stick to if the diet allows me to eat at least _some _of the foods that I love.  Sure, I had to give up some of my favorite foods, but it's tolerable as long as I get to supplement them with other favorites of mine.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> This is not me being flippant or unserious, by the way. Diets are universally scams and legitimately worse for your health in the long-term than eating the things that your body craves*
> 
> *drugs and intoxicants notwithstanding, I am still talking about _food _here



I've had better luck with just limiting when I eat, which usually helps take care of the how much.


----------



## Thunderfoot

The Arrogant Worms said that 'Carrot Juice is Murder.'   I tend to agree.


----------



## Gradine

Maybe the reason that it's a challenge is that it's a bad idea


----------



## Mannahnin

Changing any habit is challenging.  That doesn't mean that all habits are good.

Intuitive eating is a thing, but many of us have functionally trained our brains to reward behavior that is actively harmful to us.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

_Everything in moderation, including moderation._

Sid Vicious, perhaps.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Everything in moderation, including moderation._
> 
> Sid Vicious, perhaps.



Oscar Wilde, but probably when channeling Samuel Clemens.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Oscar Wilde, but probably when channeling Samuel Clemens.




_Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit._
-Abraham Lincoln, whilst dispatching vampyrs.


----------



## TwoSix

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit._
> -Abraham Lincoln, whilst dispatching vampyrs.



_That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age._
-Stephen Hawking


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

TwoSix said:


> _That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age._
> -Stephen Hawking




_They've done studies, you know. 60 percent of the time, it works every time._
-Neil deGrasse Tyson


----------



## TwoSix

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _They've done studies, you know. 60 percent of the time, it works every time._
> -Neil deGrasse Tyson



_It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them._
-Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, June 6th, 1944.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit._
> -Abraham Lincoln, whilst dispatching vampyrs.



Argument from authority is the weakest form of argument, as Aristotle says.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

TwoSix said:


> _It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them._
> -Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, June 6th, 1944.




_Stay in school. Fight the power. Don't do drugs. Unless of course, you're doing them with me._
-Ronald "Max Headroom" Reagan.


----------



## prabe

Awesome. In order to buy the book I want, I need to buy one and a half books I actively do not want. It probably works out about the same as buying a book for the twenty pages I want, but there will be some irritation.


----------



## CleverNickName

I wasn't a fan of Spelljammer in the 80s and 90s, and I'm still not a fan today.

But I'm also not a jerk, so I'm not going to crap all over everyone else's good time.  Congrats, Spelljammer fans!  I'm glad you're getting some shiny new toys!


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I wasn't a fan of Spelljammer in the 80s and 90s, and I'm still not a fan today.
> 
> But I'm also not a jerk, so I'm not going to crap all over everyone else's good time.  Congrats, Spelljammer fans!  I'm glad you're getting some shiny new toys!



Same. Also, for me, Dragonlance. Not for me, but happy for the folks getting what they want.


----------



## J.Quondam

I actually enjoy it when WotC puts out products I don't want. Both my soul and my wallet appreciate not falling victim to FOMO each and every quarter. Someone else gets something they want, while I get some sorely needed breathing room. Win win!


----------



## Deset Gled

prabe said:


> Awesome. In order to buy the book I want, I need to buy one and a half books I actively do not want. It probably works out about the same as buying a book for the twenty pages I want, but there will be some irritation.




Back in my day*, this was just how we expected music to work.  Wanna listen to that one song?  Too bad, you gotta buy a full priced album.  Oh, your favorite band came out with a remastered box set that has 3 new unreleased tracks?  I guess you're going to have two copies of their entire collection if you want to listen to the new stuff.

*I swear "my day" was not actually that long ago.  We had computers and everything.


----------



## el-remmen

And now folks can move from totally baseless speculation to arguing over crumbs of knowledge.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> And now folks can move from totally baseless speculation to arguing over crumbs of knowledge.



Hi, welcome.


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> And now folks can move from totally baseless speculation to arguing over crumbs of knowledge.



But that's like 94.7% of the internet, isn't it?


----------



## J.Quondam

J.Quondam said:


> But that's like 94.7% of the internet, isn't it?



NO! IT's 97.203% of the WORLD WIDE WEB!!! YOU IDIOT!!


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> NO! IT's 97.203% of the WORLD WIDE WEB!!! YOU IDIOT!!



Actually, its 99.0123% and its "internets" I dont think that former leader of the free world George W. Bush would mispronounce it.


----------



## Parmandur

el-remmen said:


> And now folks can move from totally baseless speculation to arguing over crumbs of knowledge.



This is the Way.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> This is the Way.




I FEEL A SUDDEN NEED TO TWEET!!!111!!!!


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I FEEL A SUDDEN NEED TO TWEET!!!111!!!!




Trying to decide if I want to ask Snarf for his twitter handle or if limited contact is better for our relationship.


----------



## trappedslider

el-remmen said:


> Trying to decide if I want to ask Snarf for his twitter handle or if limited contact is better for our relationship.



It's nice they let the rover take it's phone with it.


----------



## J.Quondam

And just because it's _sooooooo_ awesome, here's the Phobos eclipse video:


----------



## Gradine

What they're not even considering that maybe the problem isn't the price... maybe the problem is capitalism


----------



## trappedslider

Gradine said:


> What they're not even considering that maybe the problem isn't the price... maybe the problem is capitalism



The real problem is people.


----------



## CleverNickName

"The nature of ability scores" seems to be the new "nature of hit points."


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> "The nature of ability scores" seems to be the new "nature of hit points."



I just figured out ability scores in 5e almost certainly are as much a game number as simulating anything. That CR 19 critter with the 26 INT has a 26 INT at least in part so its saves and DCs are appropriate for its CR; it's not *that much* smarter (if at all) than the PCs. That's ... not an easy thing for everyone.

And please don't drag me into that other argument, wherever that is.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> "The nature of ability scores" seems to be the new "nature of hit points."




Ability scores are meat.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ability scores are meat.



High Int


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ability scores are meat.




High charisma


----------



## Cadence

"They were in a car accident and ... didn't make it."

"I'm so sorry for your loss. <Awkward pause>  Was it COVID?"

_Strange look_

"Cancer?"

_Angry look_

"Heart Attack?"

"It was a car accident!!!"

"I'm sorry.  I just didn't connect the two." <I mean, why would I since you never said to.  Sheesh!>

------

Which ability score on the part of which person in the above conversation wasn't high enough?

"Failed Dex save by the person in the car?"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "They were in a car accident and ... didn't make it."
> 
> "I'm so sorry for your loss. <Awkward pause>  Was it COVID?"
> 
> _Strange look_
> 
> "Cancer?"




 If there's one thing I hate it's losing. If there's two things I hate it's losing and getting cancer.


----------



## Ryujin

Yeah, explainign that statement would inevitably lead to politics, so naw.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Gradine said:


> High charisma



High AF.


----------



## South by Southwest

Jacob Lewis said:


> High AF.
> View attachment 155877


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Cadence said:


> Which ability score on the part of which person in the above conversation wasn't high enough?



It was low Wisdom on my part, because firstly I read the opening line about a car accident and failed to perceive that the thread wasn't still referencing the song _The Way_ by Fastball, secondly because I got halfway through this comment before I noticed that you specified people _in the_ presented conversation which so far as I know does not include me, and thirdly because every time I swing by this thread I feel like I'm failing some insight checks.


----------



## Hussar

Wow, two years later and you're still butthurt?  Dude, move on.  It would be almost flattering if it wasn't so pathetic.

What, non-humans and actual ghosts (including ghosts of non-humans) isn't D&D enough for you?  Yeesh.

((Sorry folks, just had to get those two off my chest.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread))


----------



## Zardnaar

Chicken Cranberry and cream cheese pizza. 



 Pretty damn good.


----------



## Raunalyn

Four little letters...FLGS

It's really very simple. Pick up games, one shots, etc. For many years, the FLGS was the only place I could get together and game, and I met some wonderful friends there along the way. Once ran a one shot and had an entire party of the little buggers (it was amazingly fun!). So, it's not too difficult for _most_ people with a modicum of intelligence to figure out how I could have gotten so many different players over the years...telling that you couldn't figure this out.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Is it wrong to feel like I have to come here rather than risk a comment in one of my own threads?


----------



## CleverNickName

Jacob Lewis said:


> Is it wrong to feel like I have to come here rather than risk a comment in one of my own threads?



One of us!
One of us!
One of us!


----------



## Deset Gled

Jacob Lewis said:


> Is it wrong to feel like I have to come here rather than risk a comment in one of my own threads?




It might be wrong.  But that doesn't mean the problem is you.


----------



## trappedslider

This man's injured!
 Quick, get a healer!
I'm afraid he's beyond a healer.
Quick, get a necromancer!


----------



## darjr

If your party contains a necromancer make sure you check your pulse regularly!


----------



## trappedslider

Battle droids get deep


Spoiler


----------



## Gradine

Twitter personalities going as far out of their way as possible to dump all over trans folx? Must be a day ending in "y'


----------



## CleverNickName

I just witnessed one of the bravest things in one of our meetings at work.  (This meeting is for all staff, including upper management and regional management.)   At these meetings, it's pretty common to give a shout-out to those of us who have "service anniversaries," marking the date that people started with the company and how long they have been working here, etc.  And today, this discourse occurred:

Announcer:  "And I'd like to give a shout-out to Alex!  She's been with the company for two years!  I remember when I hired her..."
Alex, interrupting:  "Two whole years and you _still _haven't managed to learn my pronouns."

I swear the temperature in the room dropped 30 degrees.  To their credit, the Announcer didn't do that tired "oh gosh *I'm *so sorry, *I *should know better, *I *meant to say ______, let's make this all about _*me*_" response that usually happens...but still.  It was a tense moment that put Alex in an unfair position, and it wasn't the first time.  The meeting resumed after a delicate course correction and a "thank you for correcting me, that was uncalled for."  I suspect Announcer is getting reprimanded, and everyone else in the room is going to be signed up for training.  But one thing's for certain: I'm buying Alex a pint at the next happy hour, because that was the bravest and most badass thing I've ever seen in a staff meeting.


----------



## RealAlHazred

See, as an ace individual, I just refer to everyone as "Dude."

Come to think of it, many things are also "Dude." The snack machine, when it steals my money, is definitely a "Duuuuude."


----------



## Gradine

Oh God, don't get me started on trans "dude" discourse. Don't call people words they don't like to be called, and let everything else go. It's that easy


----------



## Gradine

"_Excuse me_, all I did was Kramer into a three year thread to be completely condescending and dismissive offer _helpful advice_, and your reasoned pushback tantrum is totally called uncalled for!"


----------



## Gradine

Today in WTF IS JOANNE EVEN DOING NOW news, JK Rowling, a straight woman with a spotty, at best, record of supporting gay rights, has decided to co-opt Lesbian Visibility Week to attack trans women.

She also decided to publicly donate a f-ton of money to the legal defense of a woman suing the UK's most prolific LGBTQ+ charity, in case you were wondering where your stupid wizard movie ticket price was going.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


> Oh God, don't get me started on trans "dude" discourse. Don't call people words they don't like to be called, and let everything else go. It's that easy



In my defense, that's if I don't know somebody's preferred pronoun. In general, everybody I haven't been introduced to is "Dude".


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Gradine said:


> Today in WTF IS JOANNE EVEN DOING NOW news, JK Rowling, a straight woman with a spotty, at best, record of supporting gay rights, has decided to co-opt Lesbian Visibility Week to attack trans women.
> 
> She also decided to publicly donate a f-ton of money to the legal defense of a woman suing the UK's most prolific LGBTQ+ charity, in case you were wondering where your stupid wizard movie ticket price was going.



Yeah, my family has been boycotting Rowling since 2020. We've heard that the most recent movie is awful anyways, so it's not really hard to avoid watching it, though.


----------



## eyeheartawk

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, my family has been boycotting Rowling since 2020. We've heard that the most recent movie is awful anyways, so it's not really hard to avoid watching it, though.



It really makes it easier doesn't it? Like, if both the new version of thing thing you like is bad but also the creative behind it is also bad now. 

Here's to hoping Alex Kurtzman really is the Zodiac Killer so I can stop hate watching Nu-Trek.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Some time ago, in a lifetime far away, I was sitting at a hotel bar in Zurich watching the World Cup. The Brazilians were playing, and I was having one (or more) caipirinhas to cheer them on (or cheer me on ... the difference was lost on me at the time).

Given that I was traveling alone, I struck up a conversation with the bartender. She was not Swiss, but German. We talked about all sorts of things- the soccer, what it was like to live in America, how to correctly muddle the drinks. And then we were talking about Switzerland, and she went into talking about how hard it was for her- that even though she was German, the Swiss were so restrictive (and this was at the time, I don't know if it has changed at all) that she had to periodically leave the country and come back in. I was about to commiserate about the unfairness of it all with her, when she explained that in her opinion, this was the way to do it.... not like her country. Her country, she explained, just let anybody in. Then she explained that it's better to make the white people have to work a little harder and follow the rules than to let all "The Turks" in. ....and it went on from there.

_I had not seen that coming. _

So I excused myself as quickly as possible and found somewhere else to watch the game. 

Anyway, it's weird how you think a person might be a certain way, and then out of the blue, BAM. Also? Haven't seen anything involved in Harry Potter in quite some time.


----------



## payn

Anybody do a dip and crunch yet? I know Parmandur will be all over this!


----------



## Gradine

Not gonna lie, I'd be down for that.

Though I'd skip the middleman and just put that stuff right on the bun


----------



## eyeheartawk

Right, this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

Like, I just put mayo and chips directly in the sandwich?


----------



## Mad_Jack

eyeheartawk said:


> Right, this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?
> 
> Like, I just put mayo and chips directly in the sandwich?




 Yeah. Not paying $2.49 for the privilege of doing it to one burger, either, when I can get the same results cheaper (and more of it) by doing it myself.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I'm just going to take pure cholesterol and shoot it straight into my veins.


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> Yeah. Not paying $2.49 for the privilege of doing it to one burger, either, when I can get the same results cheaper (and more of it) by doing it myself.



The sauce cup costs two fiddy? No idea why I just passed that info right over.


----------



## dragoner

I just made banana pancakes for lunch (w/maple syrup) because why waste the leftover bacon grease from breakfast?


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> I just made banana pancakes for lunch (w/maple syrup) because why waste the leftover bacon grease from breakfast?



Gonna dip and crunch those pancakes? Heinz hopes so! They want to raise their sauce production 15% next quarter lol


----------



## dragoner

payn said:


> Gonna dip and crunch those pancakes? Heinz hopes so! They want to raise their sauce production 15% next quarter lol



I already felt a bit queasy.


----------



## Mannahnin

dragoner said:


> I just made banana pancakes for lunch (w/maple syrup) because why waste the leftover bacon grease from breakfast?



Leftover bacon grease?  Didn't you use it to fry your eggs in, and to saute your veggies/mushrooms to go in the eggs?  And to toast your bread in, if you were having any bread (to put the eggs on?).


----------



## dragoner

Mannahnin said:


> Leftover bacon grease?  Didn't you use it to fry your eggs in, and to saute your veggies/mushrooms to go in the eggs?  And to toast your bread in, if you were having any bread (to put the eggs on?).



Yes, except for the bread, and there was a bit left over. I hate throwing it away.


----------



## J.Quondam

Bacon grease is the culinary lubricant of the gods.


----------



## dragoner

It is good.


----------



## Gradine

Fatback's better


----------



## dragoner

Honestly, I had sworn off bacon for a while now, though I have hospice going on in my house, and they want bacon, so bacon it is.


----------



## Cadence

Given how it keeps wanting to show up in threads and disrupt them, is alignment itself chaotic?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Given how it keeps wanting to show up in threads and disrupt them, is alignment itself chaotic?



Alignment is from some Other Place incompatible with rationality. Either that, or the urge to run D&D without it is.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> Given how it keeps wanting to show up in threads and disrupt them, is alignment itself chaotic?



I thought that we all collectively decided that its alignment was "avocado?"


----------



## Cadence

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I thought that we all collectively decided that its alignment was "avocado?"



I assume that's better than pineapple aligned alignment!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> I assume that's better than pineapple aligned alignment!



Not if you're Aztec.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

You know, none of these "Spelljammer Confirmed"-spinoff jokes are quite as good as the original. Maybe it's because a lot of people thought that Spelljammer was the least likely setting to ever be updated to a new system, but it finally did? Which means that practically any previous campaign setting could be brought back next, right?


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> You know, none of these "Spelljammer Confirmed"-spinoff jokes are quite as good as the original. Maybe it's because a lot of people thought that Spelljammer was the least likely setting to ever be updated to a new system, but it finally did? Which means that practically any previous campaign setting could be brought back next, right?



Similar to Magic coming back to Kamigawa, one of the proverbial "that will never happen" deals. Now, anything is possible.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Cadence said:


> Given how it keeps wanting to show up in threads and disrupt them, is alignment itself chaotic?



I'm pretty sure alignment's alignment is lawful stupid.


----------



## Cadence

Not to any post above:

You'd really hate Eric cosmology I'm guessing ...


----------



## Maxperson

Cadence said:


> Not to any post above:
> 
> You'd really hate Eric cosmology I'm guessing ...



Elric?


----------



## Cadence

Maxperson said:


> Elric?



Yes... that one!


----------



## Maxperson

Cadence said:


> Yes... that one!



Well, it could have been Eric of Amber...


----------



## Cadence

Maxperson said:


> Well, it could have been Eric of Amber...



Amber is on my paperback swap want list right now.  Haven't read them yet!


----------



## Maxperson

Cadence said:


> Amber is on my paperback swap want list right now.  Haven't read them yet!



Great books.  You'll love them I'm sure.


----------



## South by Southwest

Maxperson said:


> Great books.  You'll love them I'm sure.



Totes. They won't change your life, but they sure will make it more fun.


----------



## Ryujin

Maxperson said:


> Great books.  You'll love them I'm sure.



There's a "diceless" RPG that was released, based on the books. Never got to play it, but was gifted the rulebook.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> There's a "diceless" RPG that was released, based on the books. Never got to play it, but was gifted the rulebook.




It's a great TTRPG. 

The books are amazing as well. I would also highly recommend _Lord of Light_, although the writing can be very baroque at times.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's a great TTRPG.
> 
> The books are amazing as well. I would also highly recommend _Lord of Light_, although the writing can be very baroque at times.



Seconded on the books. We might have _Lord of Light_ around here somewhere. _Eye of Cat_ is also good.

As to the writing, one person's "baroque" is another's "heightened." I don't remember ever finding Zelazny opaque, but opinions will (and probably should!) differ.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Seconded on the books. We might have _Lord of Light_ around here somewhere. _Eye of Cat_ is also good.
> 
> As to the writing, one person's "baroque" is another's "heightened." I don't remember ever finding Zelazny opaque, but opinions will (and probably should!) differ.




I agree, but ... I recommended it to a younger individual (think high school) and while they enjoyed it greatly, they found it more challenging. I think that this type of pseudo-modernist + pseudo-psychedelic writing isn't much in vogue any more.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> Not to any post above:
> 
> You'd really hate Eric cosmology I'm guessing ...



Well I’m no fan of Eric anyways. He hogs all the chips for one thing.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Well I’m no fan of Eric anyways. He hogs all the chips for one thing.




Yeah. Eric is that guy who always orders the pineapple pizza and says, "Sorry it's taking me so long to make my character, but there's just so many different kinds of elves to choose from!"

Of course, at least he's not Brad.


----------



## payn

At the dealership working while my car gets serviced. They have the overhead radio affixed to 80's rock. Im being bombarded with soft rock ballads made by bad boys who are just fighting for love. Dont let the leather pants and unkempt long hair fool you, these men are very sensitive.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Of course, at least he's not Brad.




Does Brad always play his anagram class too?


----------



## Mannahnin

I can picture it exactly.


----------



## Maxperson

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's a great TTRPG.
> 
> The books are amazing as well. I would also highly recommend _Lord of Light_, although the writing can be very baroque at times.



Oh yeah.  Loved Lord of Light.


----------



## eyeheartawk

As a sword and sorcery guy I respect the Elric books. 

The bad thing is that Elric served as the character Salvatore put tracing paper over and made Drizzt with. My eighth grade gaming table can never forgive this.


----------



## payn

Things just went from bad to worse, all the mechanics are in a mandatory union meeting. My repairs have been delayed...


----------



## Cadence

So, a classical S&S take on Greyhawk as the very last setting book for 5e, announced the same day as the arrival of 6e a month later?


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> So, a classical S&S take on Greyhawk as the very last setting book for 5e, announced the same day as the arrival of 6e a month later?



Well, here's the thing: WotC has already said that everything they're releasing this year will play nicely with the new revision. So it is going to be a very light revision, and they seem to have every intention of keeping supplements and Adventures evergreen.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> Well, here's the thing: WotC has already said that everything they're releasing this year will play nicely with the new revision. So it is going to be a very light revision, and they seem to have every intention of keeping supplements and Adventures evergreen.



So, you're saying, by my theory, Greyhawk won't be coming out for the 5.5 revision and will be even further down the road?   ;-)


----------



## trappedslider

I'm a Barbie girl, in the Barbie world
Life in plastic, it's fantastic
You can brush my hair, undress me everywhere
Imagination, life is your creation
Come on, Barbie, let's go party


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> I'm a Barbie girl, in the Barbie world
> Life in plastic, it's fantastic
> You can brush my hair, undress me everywhere
> Imagination, life is your creation
> Come on, Barbie, let's go party


----------



## eyeheartawk

Remember when the third edition of Cyberpunk came out and Mike Pondsmith said "Hold my beer, I'm going to pay an absurd amount of money to put GI Joes with lens flares in as art"?


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> So, a classical S&S take on Greyhawk as the very last setting book for 5e, announced the same day as the arrival of 6e a month later?



I recall that Jim Ward's Greyhawk Adventures was the last 1e hardcover, labeled as compatible with 2e.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> So, you're saying, by my theory, Greyhawk won't be coming out for the 5.5 revision and will be even further down the road?   ;-)



I'm saying thwt Greyhawk will come out as a pizza topping. Sorry, got confused on where I was.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> I'm saying thwt Greyhawk will come out as a pizza topping. Sorry, got confused on where I was.



I'm pretty sure at least half of the audience will think its some sort of New Zealand one.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Are we posting 80s music videos? How did I miss that?


----------



## Cadence

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Are we posting 80s music videos? How did I miss that?



Dammit.  I didn't even play it and it's stuck in my head.


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Are we posting 80s music videos? How did I miss that?



The union meeting is over and so is my repair whew...


----------



## Mannahnin

I keep wanting to read and comment in the Rime of the Frostmaiden post-mortem thread, but I'm still in the middle of playing in it!   

I imagine it'll be a fun read once I don't have to worry about spoilers anymore.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

One day I'll make people realize that having the conversation was more important than having the right answer.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Don't make me have to bust out the Steel Panther videos...


----------



## RealAlHazred

How many people of my age are unaware that the story that starts in A-ha's "Take on Me" concludes at the beginning of their video for "The Sun Always Shines on T.V."?


----------



## Retreater

Mannahnin said:


> I keep wanting to read and comment in the Rime of the Frostmaiden post-mortem thread, but I'm still in the middle of playing in it!
> 
> I imagine it'll be a fun read once I don't have to worry about spoilers anymore.



Yeah, we've put a good bit of spoilers in there. 
You could blindfold yourself and try to type a comment in there - just so you don't accidently see any spoilers.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> How many people of my age are unaware that the story that starts in A-ha's "Take on Me" concludes at the beginning of their video for "The Sun Always Shines on T.V."?




Until you posted that video, I'd never even heard another A-Ha song, lol... Back in the '80's I was more into the flannel and spikes hard rock crowd than the prettyboy synth stuff.




Retreater said:


> Yeah, we've put a good bit of spoilers in there.
> You could blindfold yourself and try to type a comment in there - just so you don't accidently see any spoilers.




 Click on the last page of the thread and close your eyes while scrolling to the bottom of the page, then scroll slowly back up to the bottom of the last comment - you won't see a thing.


----------



## South by Southwest

Mad_Jack said:


> Until you posted that video, I'd never even heard another A-Ha song, lol... Back in the '80's I was more into the flannel and spikes hard rock crowd than the prettyboy synth stuff.



Right there with ya, baby. It was all mohawks, Bad Brains, and Black Flag for me.


----------



## Mad_Jack

South by Southwest said:


> Right there with ya, baby. It was all mohawks, Bad Brains, and Black Flag for me.




 Back in '84, I was just starting junior high, so it was KISS, Twisted Sister, Van Halen, etc...*  In my upper-working-class neighborhood, if your hair was prettier than your girlfriend's, you'd better be wearing a leather jacket, lol...

* (And oddly, the Grateful Dead and Janis Joplin...)


----------



## South by Southwest

Mad_Jack said:


> Back in '84, I was just starting junior high, so it was KISS, Twisted Sister, Van Halen, etc...*  In my upper-working-class neighborhood, if your hair was prettier than your girlfriend's, you'd better be wearing a leather jacket, lol...
> 
> * (And oddly, the Grateful Dead and Janis Joplin...)



I still love and listen to the Dead and Joplin.

I remember the long hair thing; it was like that in my town, too, and like so many punkers I started off a metal head. Even with the jacket, I caught so much flack for the long hair.


----------



## RealAlHazred

You have claimed that "the crunchiest system" is Hero System, and I'm with you so far. But your next sentence claims that Pathfinder 2nd edition is "crunch-light," which tells me you don't actually understand what the word "crunchy" means.


----------



## trappedslider

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> You have claimed that "the crunchiest system" is Hero System, and I'm with you so far. But your next sentence claims that Pathfinder 2nd edition is "crunch-light," which tells me you don't actually understand what the word "crunchy" means.



Out of all the systems I have looked at GRUPS has to have the most crunch along with a few awesome flavor books (IW)


----------



## Mad_Jack

South by Southwest said:


> I remember the long hair thing; it was like that in my town, too, and like so many punkers I started off a metal head. Even with the jacket, I caught so much flack for the long hair.




 It wasn't the length of the hair in my town (at least among people our own age) so much as the styling - long straight hair was metal, lol... But if you had big floofy hair like Bon Jovi and weren't one of the rock/metal crowd, chances were you'd end up getting crap for being a prettyboy.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> But your next sentence claims that Pathfinder 2nd edition is "crunch-light," which tells me you don't actually understand what the word "crunchy" means.



 I wouldn't describe_ any_ D20 system as "crunch-light", not even 5E...


----------



## Mannahnin

trappedslider said:


> Out of all the systems I have looked at GRUPS has to have the most crunch along with a few awesome flavor books (IW)



GURPS is basically simplified Hero System in a lot of ways, as I recall.


----------



## Cadence

"I mean, this thing about humans, dwarves, elves, and halflings doesn't fit with anything in the literature really*.  Gygax just made it up, it's just a D&Dism.""

"* Yeah what, one author?"


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> You have claimed that "the crunchiest system" is Hero System, and I'm with you so far. But your next sentence claims that Pathfinder 2nd edition is "crunch-light," which tells me you don't actually understand what the word "crunchy" means.



I think because the system is designed so tightly, it makes the crunch easier to grok and use than systems of the past. It certainly does not make PF2 crunch lite tho!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

You know, I don't think it's worked before.

But this time .... _this time_ ... I know that if we just keep explaining to each other why we do, or don't, like a particular edition ... _this time it will stick._


----------



## dragoner

If we are still doing videos, my opinion on systems ...


----------



## RealAlHazred

This is a gaming forum. "Don't Doowutchyalike / Doowutilike" would be more appropriate, no?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

You see the thread, and you're all like ....







MUST.

RESIST.

URGE.

TO COMMENT.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> MUST.
> 
> RESIST.
> 
> URGE.
> 
> TO COMMENT.



Counterpoint:


----------



## trappedslider

I will not use the commune spell to find out who is John Galt.


----------



## Cadence

I wonder how some discussions would change if everyone had read  Redhammer's short core of Appendix N:

Anderson, Poul: THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS;
Howard, R. E.: "Conan" series
Leiber, Fritz: "Fafhrd & Gray Mouser" series; et al
Moorcock, Michael: STORMBRINGER; STEALER OF SOULS;
Tolkien, J. R. R.: THE HOBBIT; "Ring trilogy"
Vance, Jack: THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH; et al

and some modern stuff too.


----------



## payn

So, NFL draft first round tonight. My buddy went out to celebrate. Vikings trade #12 pick for #32 he was not happy lol.


----------



## prabe

You said something bad about it!

Cue the defenders in all their verbosity in three ... two ... one ....

(yes, you merely reported what others had said, but if you think that'll stop the defenders from throwing forty paragraphs each at you ... oh, you sweet summer child)


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> I wonder how some discussions would change if everyone had read  Redhammer's short core of Appendix N:
> 
> Anderson, Poul: THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS;
> Howard, R. E.: "Conan" series
> Leiber, Fritz: "Fafhrd & Gray Mouser" series; et al
> Moorcock, Michael: STORMBRINGER; STEALER OF SOULS;
> Tolkien, J. R. R.: THE HOBBIT; "Ring trilogy"
> Vance, Jack: THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH; et al
> 
> and some modern stuff too.



You don't even have to read all of the Conan, F & GM, or Vance stories.  Say somewhere between 5-8 of the best of each gives you a solid grounding in what any one of those authors contributed to D&D in less than the length of a single modern novel.


----------



## Cadence

"Alignment is just there for gameist reasons, it isn't used in any other games and isn't widely used in the literature.*"

* I mean seriously, just because Moorock and Anderson are cited in Appendix N doesn't mean Gygax didn't just dig them up as justifications for the system after the fact.  And did anyone ever read them anyway?


----------



## trappedslider

Cadence said:


> "Alignment is just there for gameist reasons, it isn't used in any other games and isn't widely used in the literature.*"
> 
> * I mean seriously, just because Moorock and Anderson are cited in Appendix N doesn't mean Gygax didn't just dig them up as justifications for the system after the fact.  And did anyone ever read them anyway?



ask that over at Steve Jackson Gaming forums and you may end up reading an academic paper on it.....


----------



## eyeheartawk

trappedslider said:


> Out of all the systems I have looked at GRUPS has to have the most crunch along with a few awesome flavor books (IW)



That's the thing. The more of those books you add, the more crunchy GURPS gets. I've played super simple GURPS games where we just rolled 3D6 under the stat for most things and it ran quick and smooth. It's when you start hammering in accurate ballistics models, mech creation rules etc that the game really lives up to its reputation. I think it is true though that most people who play GURPS do tend to tune theirs to the high crunch side of things.


----------



## billd91

Snarky prediction: *That's* not going to last long.


----------



## RealAlHazred

eyeheartawk said:


> That's the thing. The more of those books you add, the more crunchy GURPS gets. I've played super simple GURPS games where we just rolled 3D6 under the stat for most things and it ran quick and smooth. It's when you start hammering in accurate ballistics models, mech creation rules etc that the game really lives up to its reputation. I think it is true though that most people who play GURPS do tend to tune theirs to the high crunch side of things.



Hey, I run Hero System as a preference. On the player-facing side, for 90% of my games, you don't need to do much more than select stat values, pick skills, and complications. All the "math" people complain about in those is addition and subtraction. In a lot of systems, "crunch" is a matter of "if you add all of these optional subsystems." But people want to complain, not my job to correct them!


----------



## trappedslider

US Army replaces cake it stole from Italian girl in 1945
					

Meri Mion was 13 when US soldiers, fighting Germans nearby, snatched the cake from a windowsill in Italy.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Hey, I run Hero System as a preference. On the player-facing side, for 90% of my games, you don't need to do much more than select stat values, pick skills, and complications. All the "math" people complain about in those is addition and subtraction. In a lot of systems, "crunch" is a matter of "if you add all of these optional subsystems." But people want to complain, not my job to correct them!



People who complain about crunch should try playing Space Opera some time. 14 stats based on D100 rolls then converted on a chart to 1-20. Multiple stats derived from these stats including hit points, carrying capacity, maximum levels for combat skills, and two different attributes you have to track in order to know when you're tired. (I ignored one and only used the other to track psionics).

... or the ever popular Rolemaster System.


----------



## payn

This adventure module didnt come with a textbook on physics, so its pretty much useless.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I disagree.


----------



## Cadence

"Gygax* was so lucky.  He desperately wanted an outdoorsy fighter type called a Ranger who could track things, heal people, and use crystal balls -- and after he'd made it up and couldn't justify it, he found just the justification he wanted in Aragorn!"

EDIT:  * under the pen name Joe Fischer?


----------



## trappedslider

Who the hell is Kevin and why hasn't he been arrested yet?


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 156396



I would eat it, it look great.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> I would eat it, it look great.



If Spelljammer was a pizza, this would be it.
Which is to say, I agree with your post.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Don't talk to me or my grandma's secret dill dough ever again.


----------



## Cadence

A: "The pineapple pizza was clearly only chosen because it was convenient!"

B: "That's not true, it's one of my three favorites foods - pineapple pizza, hot dogs with ketchup, and poutine.  And that was the one they had there."

A: "Exactly, just for convenience!"

B: "But I could have picked any of the other pizza toppings if it was just convenience!?!"

A: "It surely wasn't because you actually like pineapple."

B: !?!?!

A: "Convenience!"


----------



## trappedslider

I'm a llama!


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I'm a llama!
> View attachment 156400



"Look out, there are llamas!"


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Parmandur

Dude, stop digging thst hole...


----------



## trappedslider

oh, and I also now own the first Death Star in lego star wars Skywalker saga


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

trappedslider said:


> oh, and I also now own the first Death Star in lego star wars Skywalker saga View attachment 156442



Is the game any good? My family owned the original Wii's Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga, which we played more than any other video game that we had (even Mario Kart).


----------



## trappedslider

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Is the game any good? My family owned the original Wii's Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga, which we played more than any other video game that we had (even Mario Kart).



I love it and it fixes a lot of the problems of the movies lol.


----------



## Parmandur

It is 


AcererakTriple6 said:


> Is the game any good? My family owned the original Wii's Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga, which we played more than any other video game that we had (even Mario Kart).



very good, and a fresh take on Lego games.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Lego games are pretty good by default in my limited experience. My wife's played the two Avenger games and we have the DC Villains game IIRC, and I've heard no complaints!


----------



## Zardnaar

Belgian biscuit here in NZ. 






   Two cinnamon biscuits held togather with raspberry jam (sometimes cream), vanilla icing with raspberry jello/jelly crystals sprinkled on top.

 No idea where the Belgian part comes from.


----------



## el-remmen

Just popping in here to place this emoji -  - instead of reacting to someone's absurd claim in a thread with it, despite it being immanently mockable.


----------



## trappedslider

This D&D campaign has been running for 40 years
					

Robert Wardhaugh ran his first game of Dungeons & Dragons as a teenager in 1982, and hasn't stopped.




					www.pcgamer.com


----------



## BookTenTiger

What is it that drives some posters to see that someone likes something and then immediately post that it is garbage?


----------



## CleverNickName

BookTenTiger said:


> What is it that drives some posters to see that someone likes something and then immediately post that it is garbage?



Is the same energy that compels people to start making snide remarks about "sportball" and "superb owls" whenever they overhear people talking about the World Series or the Superbowl.  They just can't let people enjoy things.


----------



## RealAlHazred




----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Is the same energy that compels people to start making snide remarks about "sportball" and "superb owls" whenever they overhear people talking about the World Series or the Superbowl.  They just can't let people enjoy things.
> 
> View attachment 156496



I hate the NFL, but honestly couldn't care less about most sports on their own. So long as no one is trying to get me to play them and isn't overly obnoxious about which team or sport they enjoy, I don't care.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I hate the NFL, but honestly couldn't care less about most sports on their own. So long as no one is trying to get me to play them and isn't overly obnoxious about which team or sport they enjoy, I don't care.



American Football is ethically untenable with what we know scientifically now. I really enjoy watching sports, but I'm not into following them. I will happily go to any baseball game at any level of play (after two years, I'd kill to be able to just go and relax at a baseball game...), but I'm not going to engage in finding out about the pennant race or spend any mental space on statistics.


----------



## Cadence

<Not sportball>

So, if there is more lot of discussion about the genre of something than about its flaws, that's a good sign for it, right?


----------



## darjr

How do some people manage to eat and breath?


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> How do some people manage to eat and breath?


----------



## darjr

In my defense I’m a hot headed idiot.


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> In my defense I’m a hot headed idiot.



Thats an excuse, not a defense.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Thats an excuse, not a defense.



Excuse, defence..... Tomato, hovercraft......


----------



## payn

Ah, I see this thread has moved from the "what is _your _opinion?" to the "what is the _correct _opinion" phase.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Ah, I see this thread has moved from the "what is _your _opinion?" to the "what is the _correct _opinion" phase.



Did you take a week or two off?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

_The best way to get a correct answer on the internet is to post an obviously wrong answer and wait for someone to correct you._


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Did you take a week or two off?



Nope, just managed to get into the thread before it turned into a loggerhead.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Nope, just managed to get into the thread before it turned into a loggerhead.



Rare thing to get in at the top of the first page of one!  I'm sometimes tempted to bookmark them when that happens.


----------



## darjr

What do turtles have to do with anything?


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> What do turtles have to do with anything?



Best cover song?


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> What do turtles have to do with anything?



I'm having a gradeschool fundraiser flashback.  I had forgotten they were called katydids and not turtles.


----------



## billd91

darjr said:


> What do turtles have to do with anything?



What *don't* they have to do with? It's turtles *all the way down*!


----------



## billd91

Psychoanalyzing people's play preferences isn't really anybody's area of competence on these boards.


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> Psychoanalyzing people's play preferences isn't really anybody's area of competence on these boards.



This is why I skip the psychoanalysis altogether, and go right to the conclusion of _every such argument:_
I alone know how to properly play D&D, and everyone else is in various stages of denial about that.


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> What *don't* they have to do with? It's turtles *all the way down*!


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Psychoanalyzing people's play preferences isn't really anybody's area of competence on these boards.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> This is why I skip the psychoanalysis altogether, and go right to the conclusion of _every such argument:_
> I alone know how to properly play D&D, and everyone else is in various stages of denial about that.




Wow would that be a heck of a start to a really painful thread though!


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Wow would that be a heck of a start to a really painful thread though!



I'm pretty sure it would only be the 1,095,581st version of that particular thread.


----------



## darjr

You ATE them?!?


----------



## Ryujin

Rock me, Doctor Zaius.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Nothing worse than taking the weekend off and going through a thread and finding a commenter with a strike through their name. 

Well…. There are worse things. Like the heat death of the universe. But it’s still a bummer.


----------



## trappedslider

sorry guys, you missed your chance









						Canadian astronauts no longer free to rob and kill with abandon in space or on the moon
					

Amendment buried in 2022 federal budget bill extends Canadian criminal jurisdiction to the cosmos




					calgaryherald.com


----------



## eyeheartawk

trappedslider said:


> sorry guys, you missed your chance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canadian astronauts no longer free to rob and kill with abandon in space or on the moon
> 
> 
> Amendment buried in 2022 federal budget bill extends Canadian criminal jurisdiction to the cosmos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> calgaryherald.com



I feel like saying "sorry" in a post about Canadians is a purposeful joke. 

I approve.


----------



## payn

Thats a really good discussion Id like to have, but realize my thoughts and opinions are entirely opposite and don't want to spoil the spirit of the thread.


----------



## trappedslider

eyeheartawk said:


> I feel like saying "sorry" in a post about Canadians is a purposeful joke.
> 
> I approve.



I..honestly did not intend it


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> I..honestly did not intend it


----------



## darjr

Oh the ignorant cynicism


----------



## Zardnaar

Please don't mock Canada. France exists.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Zardnaar said:


> Please don't mock Canada. France exists.



But what about Quebec then?


----------



## Zardnaar

eyeheartawk said:


> But what about Quebec then?




 It's kinda like comparing UK to USA......

 Mock away!!


----------



## eyeheartawk

Zardnaar said:


> It's kinda like comparing UK to USA......
> 
> Mock away!!



Forget about socialized healthcare, I'll settle for real Cadbury Eggs!


----------



## Zardnaar

eyeheartawk said:


> Forget about socialized healthcare, I'll settle for real Cadbury Eggs!




 Do they even make them any more? Cadbury has gone to crap here.


 Tease the Americans more.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Ryujin

Zardnaar said:


> Do they even make them any more? Cadbury has gone to crap here.



They do. I sent a bunch to some friends in Seattle, a couple of years back. In fact there are several different varieties now.


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> But what about Quebec then?



Quebec is to France, as Louisiana is to Acadia.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Makes me laugh everytime


----------



## darjr

Only some of us.


----------



## Zardnaar

Ryujin said:


> They do. I sent a bunch to some friends in Seattle, a couple of years back. In fact there are several different varieties now.




We can still get them here but they changed the recipe a few years back. 

 And I've heard mixed things about UK ones. Cadbury got bought out 2009. The fondant sucks here now.

 Since then I think I bought a couple of boxes if rose's (crap) and a few moro gold bars (not to bad). 

 Otherwise I buy Whittaker's (NZ brand) or Lindt (French or Swiss iirc).


----------



## Ryujin

Zardnaar said:


> We can still get them here but they changed the recipe a few years back.
> 
> And I've heard mixed things about UK ones. Cadbury got bought out 2009. The fondant sucks here now.
> 
> Since then I think I bought a couple of boxes if rose's (crap) and a few moro gold bars (not to bad).
> 
> Otherwise I buy Whittaker's (NZ brand) or Lindt (French or Swiss iirc).



Still pretty good here, but I'm pretty sure that most manufacturers have dialed back the actual cocoa content in their "chocolate" these days. Nothing tastes quite like I remember it from my childhood. Lindt has remained fairly stable, but is expensive.


----------



## Zardnaar

Ryujin said:


> Still pretty good here, but I'm pretty sure that most manufacturers have dialed back the actual cocoa content in their "chocolate" these days. Nothing tastes quite like I remember it from my childhood. Lindt has remained fairly stable, but is expensive.




 Whittaker's haven't dialed it back or shrinkflation.



			https://www.countdown.co.nz/shop/productdetails?stockcode=266869&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpcOTBhCZARIsAEAYLuWifeMxZBmcImVVRr_Qcmv6dt1HzVgqSdXLHSibcMfpE0mwSVwgL_caAlaEEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
		


$5.50 NZD 250 grams. 

Cadbury $3.80 180 grams. 

https://www.countdown.co.nz/shop/pr...14479&name=cadbury-chocolate-block-dairy-milk

 9 cent difference per 100g. 

  Cadbury used to do 250 grams called king size the smaller blocks were queen sized. More Suger less cocoa more palm oil. 

 Whittaker's more like Lindt in quality. Plus they do an artisan range at lindt prices.

 Nestle and Hershey's don't bother although Nestle better than Cadbury and Hershey's atm.

 If you want cheap chocolate buy the in store supermarket brand it's made in Belgium and is $2.50 a block.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I require no chocolate besides this.


----------



## Mannahnin

A favorite.


----------



## trappedslider

Dear Enworld,
Hello. I am the Crown Prince of Nigeria. I have recently come into a large fortune, but..


----------



## Gradine

I've got nothing.

This is an incredibly dark day in American history, and it is only the beginning.


----------



## darjr

Gradine said:


> I've got nothing.
> 
> This is an incredibly dark day in American history, and it is only the beginning.



Yes it is.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Have you guys seen the YouTube video where Venger blesses his wife's pregnant stomach with eldritch goo?

Because that's a thing that totally exists.


----------



## J.Quondam

To google or not to google. That is the question.


_edit: I think "not to google" is the correct answer._


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> To google or not to google. That is the question.
> 
> 
> edit: I think "not to google" is the correct answer.



It almost always is.


----------



## eyeheartawk

J.Quondam said:


> To google or not to google. That is the question.
> 
> 
> edit: I think "not to google" is the correct answer.


----------



## Gradine

The algorithm can't tell hate watching apart.

The answer is always no.


----------



## J.Quondam

Gradine said:


> The algorithm can't tell hate watching apart.
> 
> The answer is always no.



Yeah... I'd hate to have it show up on the permanent record later on in life.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Gradine said:


> The algorithm can't tell hate watching apart.
> 
> The answer is always no.



You see, the fine people at YouTube thought of that:


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> I've got nothing.
> 
> This is an incredibly dark day in American history, and it is only the beginning.



I hope you are in or can find a place where you are safe. I wish I had more ... sorry.


----------



## South by Southwest

J.Quondam said:


> To google or not to google. That is the question.
> 
> 
> _edit: I think "not to google" is the correct answer._



If this is one of those days on which you aren't ready to face all that's happening in the wider world, I'd say, _"Give it a pass and wait until you're in a better headspace."_

I don't know how it happened that we became convinced, in this digital age, that we've an _obligation_ always to stay current on all current events, but I will say I'm convinced that conviction is false.


----------



## payn

Crowdsourcing new HVAC for your vacation home would be a hot take if the furnace worked.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Crowdsourcing new HVAC for your vacation home would be a hot take if the furnace worked.



_Reluctantly presses like button_


----------



## Gradine

eyeheartawk said:


> You see, the fine people at YouTube thought of that:
> 
> View attachment 156659



It's not your own personal algorithm you need to worry about. It's the clicks and views that are counting towards Vengar's (or whoevers') reach.


----------



## Gradine

prabe said:


> I hope you are in or can find a place where you are safe. I wish I had more ... sorry.



Part of me wants to say that I'm in CA and therefore plenty safe, but with Obergefell explicitly on the chopping block, my state was the _plaintiff _in that case. Even here I cannot guarantee that my marriage is entirely safe. To say nothing of my own health care.

My heart breaks for all of those who are definitely going to be losing bodily autonomy in large swaths of this country. Trans folx, women. Hell, even _Lawrence v. Texas _might not hold up. Who even knows?


----------



## darjr

Not going to google that. Can’t afford the therapy.


----------



## Retreater

This is why I have a reputation as one of the board's resident pessimists. As negative as my views on many game products are, my perspective on our real world is often even bleaker. 
I've gotta try to find something to be positive about. My wife is going to need that when I get home.


----------



## prabe

Retreater said:


> This is why I have a reputation as one of the board's resident pessimists. As negative as my views on many game products are, my perspective on our real world is often even bleaker.
> I've gotta try to find something to be positive about. My wife is going to need that when I get home.



Left to themselves, things go from bad to worse; then, the cycle repeats.


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> If this is one of those days on which you aren't ready to face all that's happening in the wider world, I'd say, _"Give it a pass and wait until you're in a better headspace."_
> 
> I don't know how it happened that we became convinced, in this digital age, that we've an _obligation_ always to stay current on all current events, but I will say I'm convinced that conviction is false.



Considering that "current events" now seems to include such things as Jared Leto making a fool of himself at the Met Gala staying up to date is both impossible, and pointless.


----------



## prabe

If most people look at the words you're using, and expect them to mean something other than what you intend them to mean, maybe you should be open to the possibility you are using those words as jargon, or perhaps wrongly. You are not Humpty Dumpty.

(pronounced with two umpties)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> If most people look at the words you're using, and expect them to mean something other than what you intend them to mean, maybe you should be open to the possibility you are using those words as jargon, or perhaps wrongly. You are not Humpty Dumpty.
> 
> (pronounced with two umpties)




If you look carefully at my words, you'll realize that I'm actually saying something else. I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering Bards.


----------



## South by Southwest

Ryujin said:


> Considering that "current events" now seems to include such things as *Jared Leto making a fool of himself at the Met Gala* staying up to date is both impossible, and pointless.



The things I learn on this site....


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


> Considering that "current events" now seems to include such things as Jared Leto making a fool of himself



You can pretty much always assume that this is true and move on with your life


----------



## Retreater

Nightly reminder for myself that it's better to listen than to talk. 
I hate not having solutions. I hate not being able to do anything to make it better. 
Is it any wonder that my hobbies center around power fantasy?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Spiraling out.


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> Nightly reminder for myself that it's better to listen than to talk.
> I hate not having solutions. I hate not being able to do anything to make it better.
> Is it any wonder that my hobbies center around power fantasy?



I was on a date again tonight. With an introvert; I'm a hopeless extrovert. I can tell she is into me, but I'm constantly seeking that affirmation. I long for the time I don't have solutions to make things better, and instead have to rely on living out my power fantasies.


----------



## eyeheartawk

If anybody cares, Gamenerdz is offering the Spelljammer set for pre-order for like $50, so way cheaper than Amazon. Which, is also like, $450 less than that one guy from the Wing Commander movie charges for it also.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> If anybody cares, Gamenerdz is offering the Spelljammer set for pre-order for like $50, so way cheaper than Amazon. Which, is also like, $450 less than *that one guy from the Wing Commander movie *charges for it also.



lol, forgot about that.


----------



## Cadence

I was today years old when I learned


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## eyeheartawk

I was actually flipping through some old Dragon issues I have yesterday and I came across that article James Ward wrote _bragging_ about sanitizing their game for the satanic panic crowd.

Then today in another thread somebody mentioned that TSR also did this in their third edition of Dragonquest.

Am I alone in still being angry about this? Like, I don't know why it bothers me so much. Is it because it's morally and creatively bankrupt? Because it's a craven commercial interest (of debatable value) compromising a creative endeavor? Is it because it's just, like, really really lame? Is it because I hate Tipper Gore types? I don't know. Probably all of it.

Though, I think the reason I hate it the most is a combination of all of the above and then _having the temerity to write a column bragging about it_.

Bah humbug.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I was actually flipping through some old Dragon issues I have yesterday and I came across that article James Ward wrote _bragging_ about sanitizing their game for the satanic panic crowd.
> 
> Then today in another thread somebody mentioned that TSR also did this in their third edition of Dragonquest.
> 
> Am I alone in still being angry about this? Like, I don't know why it bothers me so much. Is it because it's morally and creatively bankrupt? Because it's a craven commercial interest (of debatable value) compromising a creative endeavor? Is it because it's just, like, really really lame? Is it because I hate Tipper Gore types? I don't know. Probably all of it.
> 
> Though, I think the reason I hate it the most is a combination of all of the above and then _having the temerity to write a column bragging about it_.
> 
> Bah humbug.



Im kinda like, "yeah!" but then realize so much worse is happening right now in today's moral panic. I just dont care anymore.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Im kinda like, "yeah!" but then realize so much worse is happening right now in today's moral panic. I just dont care anymore.



Oh yeah, on a ranking of actual issues in this worst-of-all timeline it's very low. I would rank it right above me dropping a jar of relish on the floor at Target the other day. 

The abject failure you feel seeing another human being trying to sweep your wet pickle mess into dust pan really makes you evaluate how you got here.


----------



## prabe

I think it's easy to look back and see cowardice--and it might have been actual cowardice--but it's harder to look back and see all the context, so I'm perhaps more reluctant to judge than you are. Doesn't mean you're wrong.


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> I was actually flipping through some old Dragon issues I have yesterday and I came across that article James Ward wrote _bragging_ about sanitizing their game for the satanic panic crowd.



What issue was this?  Is it the "Angry Mothers from Heck" piece from #154?


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Oh yeah, on a ranking of actual issues in this worst-of-all timeline it's very low. I would rank it right above me dropping a jar of relish on the floor at Target the other day.
> 
> The abject failure you feel seeing another human being trying to sweep your wet pickle mess into dust pan really makes you evaluate how you got here.



I was that Target employee at one point. Now I just manage the building automation.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mannahnin said:


> What issue was this?  Is it the "Angry Mothers from Heck" piece from #154?



Yeah.


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> Yeah.



I don't know that I read it as bragging, but the tone does come across as a bit off.

"_Ever since the Monster Manual came out in 1977, TSR has gotten a letter or two of complaint each week. All too often, such letters were from people who objected to the mention of demons and devils in that game book. One letter each week since the late 1970s adds up to a lot of letters, and I thought a lot about those angry moms. When the AD&D® 2nd Edition rules came out, I had the designers and editors delete all mention of demons and devils._"  Hmm.  

I appreciate him explaining their rationale and editorial approach of the day, but he does seem to take it for granted that the trade off of minimizing angry mothers of young players by removing options adult players enjoy is naturally worth it.  And we certainly know that not everyone agreed at the time.  

"_I know there are many of you out there who are saying to yourselves, Well, I am going to use demons and devils in my game no matter what TSR does! That's fine with us. Free choice is one of the positive aspects of role-playing._"

This passage seems to show that odd blind spot that TSR sometimes had, of assuming that players were familiar with and had access to the old rules.  Like how in retrospect some really core useful stuff was left out of the 1E DMG because Gary and Tim apparently assumed that everyone buying it already owned OD&D.  Here is Jim in 1990 assuming that the only adult players who would like rules for demons and devils will  obviously already own the 1977 Monster Manual.  And disregarding that the stats in it are badly outdated and poorly written, and could really use the cleaning up that 2nd Ed provided.


----------



## Gradine

I mean, as awful as the actual sentiment behind the satanic panic was, I will say if nothing else that Tanar'ri and Baatezu are way more interesting and evocative than demons and devils


----------



## Mannahnin

Gradine said:


> I mean, as awful as the actual sentiment behind the satanic panic was, I will say if nothing else that Tanar'ri and Baatezu are way more interesting and evocative than demons and devils



I could go either way on that.  But the re-introduction of demons and devils under those new names seemed to largely represent a course reversal from what Jim was talking about in that 1990 editorial.  TSR realized that gamers really wanted their demons and devils back, so they just filed off the serial numbers and hoped the angry moms wouldn't look at the art, I guess?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Gradine said:


> I mean, as awful as the actual sentiment behind the satanic panic was, I will say if nothing else that Tanar'ri and Baatezu are way more interesting and evocative than demons and devils



That's valid. Though to me, it just made up word-salad. Reminds me of this I found yesterday:


----------



## billd91

eyeheartawk said:


> That's valid. Though to me, it just made up word-salad. Reminds me of this I found yesterday:
> 
> View attachment 156720



I think the main question is - does filing off the serial numbers and using a different name enable them to fly under the radar? If so, then I'll happily bring word salad to the company pot luck.


----------



## prabe

Word salad is just creative lorem ipsum.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Word salad is like that one salad your aunt brings that's got like, Jell-O and a fruit and ham in it.


----------



## South by Southwest

_Old_ ham.


----------



## Parmandur

Mannahnin said:


> I appreciate him explaining their rationale and editorial approach of the day, but he does seem to take it for granted that the trade off of minimizing angry mothers of young players by removing options adult players enjoy is naturally worth it. And we certainly know that not everyone agreed at the time.



I mean, it probably was worth it for their bottom line.


----------



## Mannahnin

Parmandur said:


> I mean, it probably was worth it for their bottom line.



Perhaps!  

I remember reading that their average new player age declined significantly after the James Dallas Egbert incident, so in much of the 80s they were aiming a lot at middle schoolers and teenage boys.  The allure of dangerous-seeming D&D definitely seemed to help market for them and drive sales. Hard to say whether that was a stronger boost to sales than angry mothers were a detriment.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mannahnin said:


> The allure of dangerous-seeming D&D definitely seemed to help market for them and drive sales.



Ding, ding, ding. 

This is why no kids like sex, drugs and rock and roll. Every teenager much prefers church, slacks and a nice warm bowl of tapioca pudding.


----------



## prabe

Would it be an asshat maneuver to point out that you just put into words the strongest argument against that style of play?

I think it would, and you're really a good guy. I won't point that out, then.


----------



## Ryujin

Watch the film adaptation of "Dark Dungeons" on Youtube.

Follow it up with the, "Totally not connected at all in any way. Really. I promise!" film "Attacking the Darkness."

You're welcome.


----------



## darjr

My statement isn’t an affront to you or any notions you’ve come too. Some things are just not universal facts. Especially when it comes to this hobby.


----------



## darjr

darjr said:


> My statement isn’t an affront to you or any notions you’ve come too. Some things are just not universal facts. Especially when it comes to this hobby.



This was a wrong assumption on my part.


----------



## Retreater

Re: the Satanic Panic of the 1980s and "cleaning up" of AD&D.
Had it not been for this, my mother wouldn't have allowed me to play at all. As it was, I was _barely_ able to do so. And before anyone says "you could've just snuck out and played it at a friend's house" - I was the guy who ran the games for everyone else. So it would've taken me out of the hobby and also more than likely the dozen or so friends I had growing up who played it with me.


----------



## darjr

@payn what can I say? I think I’m just going to take a break.


----------



## payn

Imma have to write a song after today. Gonna name it _quote block city._


----------



## Hussar

Heh, changing verbiage to fly under the radar could be the tagline for 5e.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Huh. Apparently, it's my two-year anniversary of being on this site. (I recently realized that I joined a day after @Snarf Zagyg did. Kinda weird.)


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Huh. Apparently, it's my two-year anniversary of being on this site. (I recently realized that I joined a day after @Snarf Zagyg did. Kinda weird.)



I've been lurking on ENWorld as long as you have been alive, and I literally was called a whippersnapper here the other day.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Huh. Apparently, it's my two-year anniversary of being on this site. (I recently realized that I joined a day after @Snarf Zagyg did. Kinda weird.)




Maybe you’re the mirror universe Snarf?


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Maybe you’re the mirror universe Snarf?



Which of you two has the goatee?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> Which of you two has the goatee?



I've never been able to grow a beard, so probably not me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I've never been able to grow a beard, so probably not me.




…and I’m the evil one.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> …and I’m the evil one.



Seems legit.


----------



## payn

Is...this evil Bruce Wayne?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> …and I’m the evil one.



_(Checks both of our current profile pictures.)_

Huh. I'm glad I changed mine from Acererak that I had for over a year. Nice foresight in my case.


----------



## payn

Most people dont want D&D to be fun. Though, a vocal minority always gets its way...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Most people dont want D&D to be fun. Though, a vocal minority always gets its way...




You can't spell FUN with M. E.!!!!!!!!


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You can't spell FUN with M. E.!!!!!!!!



Really. We all know "fun" is an inadequate criterion ...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Really. We all know "fun" is an inadequate criterion ...




People like what they like. You can’t force someone to like something. You can expose them to a piece of work, but if they don’t like it, that’s the way it is. You can’t talk them out of it.

Unless they like something because it's fun, or they like something you don't like. Then they are WRONG, and must be sentenced to responding to your questions until the heat death of the universe.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I don't care about changing anyone's mind. I just want to come up with ways of making fun of stuff that give me a chuckle. Hell, I like D&D a ton and I rip on it all the time. An audience of one. 

I can't seriously critique much of anything. I once ran a Maid/DCC/Macho Women with Guns game because it sounded like a good (very terrible) idea. 

I'm expected to have a serious discussion about bounded accuracy?


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> People like what they like. You can’t force someone to like something. You can expose them to a piece of work, but if they don’t like it, that’s the way it is. You can’t talk them out of it.
> 
> Unless they like something because it's fun, or they like something you don't like. Then they are WRONG, and must be sentenced to responding to your questions until the heat death of the universe.



While you cherry-pick sentences out of context and dissect them in wall-o-text paragraphs laden with pseudo-scholarly jargon that uses words everyone knows in ways no one understands in order to demonstrate conclusively that you have a mind so fine no idea can penetrate it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> While you cherry-pick sentences out of context and dissect them in wall-o-text paragraphs laden with pseudo-scholarly jargon that uses words everyone knows in ways no one understands in order to demonstrate conclusively that you have a mind so fine no idea can penetrate it.




I am so clever I don't understand a single word of what I am saying, but so intelligent I can force you to concede that you can't possibly comprehend me either.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I am so clever I don't understand a single word of what I am saying, but so intelligent I can force you to concede that you can't possibly comprehend me either.



This is the way.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I don't care about changing anyone's mind. I just want to come up with ways of making fun of stuff that give me a chuckle. Hell, I like D&D a ton and I rip on it all the time. An audience of one.
> 
> I can't seriously critique much of anything. I once ran a Maid/DCC/Macho Women with Guns game because it sounded like a good (very terrible) idea.
> 
> I'm expected to have a serious discussion about bounded accuracy?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> This is the way.




RE: Movie reviews (albeit not particularly pretentious)






						Ebert's Most Hated | Roger Ebert | Roger Ebert
					

EDITOR'S NOTE: Sometimes, Roger Ebert is exposed to bad movies. When that happens, it is his duty -- if not necessarily his pleasure -- to report them (fairly, accurately) as he sees them. Whether they're so bad they're funny, so bad they're not funny, or so unfunny they're not funny, he must...




					www.rogerebert.com


----------



## Cadence

Just came up in my feed on FB and made me think of this thread...


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I am so clever I don't understand a single word of what I am saying, but so intelligent I can force you to concede that you can't possibly comprehend me either.



Poster: < Cogent statement that seems to cover most, if not all bases >

Troll: < Wall of bafflegab text that is completely incomprehensible >

Poster: < Enh?! I'm out. >

Troll: I won!


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> RE: Movie reviews (albeit not particularly pretentious)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ebert's Most Hated | Roger Ebert | Roger Ebert
> 
> 
> EDITOR'S NOTE: Sometimes, Roger Ebert is exposed to bad movies. When that happens, it is his duty -- if not necessarily his pleasure -- to report them (fairly, accurately) as he sees them. Whether they're so bad they're funny, so bad they're not funny, or so unfunny they're not funny, he must...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rogerebert.com



I dont recall the reviewer but there was a great comment about Carrot Top's chairmen of the board.

"...this greenlit disaster surely will end the 6 martini lunch in Hollywood"


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I dont recall the reviewer but there was a great comment about Carrot Top's chairmen of the board.
> 
> "...this greenlit disaster surely will end the 6 martini lunch in Hollywood"



12 even!






						Chairman of the Board | Encyclopedia.com
					

Chairman of the Board woof! 1997 (PG-13)Some studio executive decided to take a bad prop comic named after a vegetable and give him a major motion picture. If this movie accomplishes one thing, it may be the abolition of Friday afternoon 12-martini lunches in Hollywood. Carrot Top plays Edison...




					www.encyclopedia.com


----------



## RealAlHazred

Huh, now _I'm_ bringing in stuff from off-forum...

I get that you prefer a previous edition of the game, and that you think every change to the system in the last literally twenty years was utter crap, but can you _try_ not to inject venom into _every single goddam post_ you make on this board? You just injected your edition-warring into a _movie_ thread, for Mercy's sake...

EDIT: I was wrong, that edition was two editions ago, and is now _thirty_ years old.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ladies and gentlemen:

Got 'em. 

I am so smart and cool.


----------



## Cadence

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Huh, now _I'm_ bringing in stuff from off-forum...
> 
> I get that you prefer a previous edition of the game, and that you think every change to the system in the last literally twenty years was utter crap, but can you _try_ not to inject venom into _every single goddam post_ you make on this board? You just injected your edition-warring into a _movie_ thread, for Mercy's sake...
> 
> EDIT: I was wrong, that edition was two editions ago, and is now _thirty_ years old.



Who hates V:tM 2e that much?


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> 12 even!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chairman of the Board | Encyclopedia.com
> 
> 
> Chairman of the Board woof! 1997 (PG-13)Some studio executive decided to take a bad prop comic named after a vegetable and give him a major motion picture. If this movie accomplishes one thing, it may be the abolition of Friday afternoon 12-martini lunches in Hollywood. Carrot Top plays Edison...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.encyclopedia.com



Maybe, but the coke is forever.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Maybe, but the coke is forever.



It's the pause that refreshes in the corridors of power ...


----------



## prabe

In my experience, everyone like stonefruit and makes every effort to gather some when they're ripe.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Who hates V:tM 2e that much?



Actually, *Champions* 4th edition. Which came out in 1989, so, yeah, I'm old.


----------



## CleverNickName

I just can't get worked up about druids wearing full plate.  "Buh buh but they won't wear armor made of metal!" you say?  Fine.  Here's some full plate made of, I dunno, ankheg chitin or petrified wood or whatever.  Deal with it.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I just can't get worked up about druids wearing full plate.  "Buh buh but they won't wear armor made of metal!" you say?  Fine.  Here's some full plate made of, I dunno, ankheg chitin or petrified wood or whatever.  Deal with it.



In principle, yes. In practice, having that sort of thing make sense in the game's narrative and not feel like favoritism is ... not always easy or simple.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> In principle, yes. In practice, having that sort of thing make sense in the game's narrative and not feel like favoritism is ... not always easy or simple.




Eh, the way I see it?  If the player is willing to sacrifice an ASI to get proficiency with heavy armor, and willing to sacrifice a thousand gold coins for full plate, I'm willing to sacrifice the sacred cow of "druids with bad armor."


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Eh, the way I see it?  If the player is willing to sacrifice an ASI to get proficiency with heavy armor, and willing to sacrifice a thousand gold coins for full plate, I'm willing to sacrifice the sacred cow of "druids with bad armor."



Purchase? Absolutely--once you decide to allow it. I was talking about other placements, which--apologies--wasn't clear. "Oh look we found a suit of armor that's perfect for ... [looks at druid's player meaningfully]"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I just can't get worked up about druids wearing full plate.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> Purchase? Absolutely--once you decide to allow it. I was talking about other placements, which--apologies--wasn't clear. "Oh look we found a suit of armor that's perfect for ... [looks at druid's player meaningfully]"



I was just updating my house rules, and that was next on the to-do list.  That whole "druids *won't *wear armor made of metal" thing never sat right with me, so I'm fixing it by allowing more armors that _aren't _made of metal.  You want a breastplate, mighty archdruid?  Go hunt some bugs.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Plot twist:

My Druid's armor is made of live rust monster. 

Come get it, fighting-man.


----------



## CleverNickName

A "summon rust monster" spell just showed up on my Druid spell list.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> A "summon rust monster" spell just showed up on my Druid spell list.



Sounds like a neat special effect for _corrode metal_.

"A live rust monster appears in your hand, which you throw ..."


----------



## CleverNickName

New Druid subclass: The Circle of Rust.

Concept:  Druids who hunt for metal, seeking to return those sacred ores to the earth from whence they came.

Features:  Circle Spells would feature things like Heat Metal, Shocking Grasp, lots of acid and corrosion-based stuff.
Adopt a rust monster as a companion, maybe wild-shape into a rust monster.
Corrode metal with a touch, and at higher levels, you can even corrode magical metal.


----------



## eyeheartawk

"Hold up guys, just gotta dig another hole and pour some money in"


----------



## CleverNickName

Is this a druid?




(needs pineapple)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I feel like the number of threads with accessible and interesting topics has gone down recently.

..._then again, I haven't been starting threads recently_.

Hmmmm.....


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I feel like the number of threads with accessible and interesting topics has gone down recently.
> 
> ..._then again, I haven't been starting threads recently_.
> 
> Hmmmm.....



Right?

Let's start a "D&D is a clown shoes game for clowns who smell bad" thread and see where that takes us.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> Right?
> 
> Let's start a "D&D is a clown shoes game for clowns who smell bad" thread and see where that takes us.




Needs more highfalutin' words!

_I'm not trashing the things you like, I am simply using very large words to tell you that you're an idiot for liking the things that you like_.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I feel like the number of threads with accessible and interesting topics has gone down recently.
> 
> ..._then again, I haven't been starting threads recently_.
> 
> Hmmmm.....



How about "D&D isnt gamist is it narrativist?"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> How about "D&D isnt gamist is it narrativist?"




Friday Hot Topic:

OD&D and the LBBs was the first (and best) "Story Now" system every made. 

Discuss amongst yourselves.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I once wrote an entire fake storygame by "Jim Sasquatchawan" about itinerant farmers in the dust bowl called _Dear God, Will The Suffering End, Just Let Me Die.  _

I even used a picture of some flannel wearing hipster as an author image and claimed I had demoed the game at Forge Midwest and everything.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> It's the pause that refreshes in the corridors of power ...











						Crack Vending Machine on Make a GIF
					

_premium




					makeagif.com


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> How about "D&D isnt gamist is it narrativist?"



No no, that won't do at all.
You need to work in lots of smart-sounding game jargon like "bounded accuracy" and "player agency."  Stuff that will inform the reader that you spend far too much time on the internet to be challenged.  Maybe something like:

"D&D Player Agency in 4E Created Gamist Sandbox Immersion has Changed the Game-Breaking Bounded Accuracy Simulationism Railroad of 5E"


----------



## prabe

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THE WINNER OF BUZZWORD BINGO IS CLEVERNICKNAME

LET'S SEE WHAT THEY'VE WON ...


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> No no, that won't do at all.
> You need to work in lots of smart-sounding game jargon like "bounded accuracy" and "player agency."  Stuff that will inform the reader that you spend far too much time on the internet to be challenged.  Maybe something like:
> 
> "D&D Player Agency in 4E Created Gamist Sandbox Immersion has Changed the Game-Breaking Bounded Accuracy Simulationism Railroad of 5E"




"D&D isn't really even a game."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> No no, that won't do at all.
> You need to work in lots of smart-sounding game jargon like "bounded accuracy" and "player agency."  Stuff that will inform the reader that you spend far too much time on the internet to be challenged.  Maybe something like:
> 
> "D&D Player Agency in 4E Created Gamist Sandbox Immersion has Changed the Game-Breaking Bounded Accuracy Simulationism Railroad of 5E"




Not sure if that works without at least one "actual play" example and one really long quote from some dude in 2002 who uses even more jargon-y buzzwords.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Not sure if that works without at least one "actual play" example and one really long quote from some dude in 2002 who uses even more jargon-y buzzwords.



And that "actual play" example better have mechanics described in it, because those are *vital* to the narrative.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> And that "actual play" example better have mechanics described in it, because those are *vital* to the narrative.



And be sure to put the positive-only tag in the title.  And refer to it often.  That way, everyone will think twice before they _dare _to challenge your opinion.

(That's how the [+] tag works, right?  You're only allowed to agree with me?  I think that's how it works.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> And be sure to put the positive-only tag in the title.  And refer to it often.  That way, everyone will think twice before they _dare _to challenge your opinion.
> 
> (That's how the [+] tag works, right?  You're only allowed to agree with me?  I think that's how it works.)




We need a {-} tag. 

Or is that the default?


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> We need a {-} tag.
> 
> Or is that the default?



If it's not the default, I'd be *terrified* to see a (-) thread.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I don't really know where to place this, so I'll just place it here. I might turn it into a thread later.



Spoiler: Rant: D&D's Magic would be bad for us, actually



I've been thinking recently about magic and how bad it would be for the world if we had it. And I don't just mean in the typical "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" kind of way, either. More how magic would further the divide between the working and wealthy classes within the setting, help evil magic-users overthrow democracies and install themselves as a dictator or monarch, and how magic would end up being hoarded by the wealthy and/or governments of the world. Magic schools for bards and wizards would be more accessible to the wealthy, and people with innate magic would be more likely to be wealthy (under capitalism, at least). So Sorcerers (and maybe other full-casters) could use their magic to make money, then use that money to send their children to schools/colleges that would teach them magic, which would then create these ultra-wealthy aristocratic families that could then use both their magic and money to gain a ton of political power and control over the world around them (and become even more wealthy, because that's how capitalism works). Magic, under capitalism, would just further the imbalance between classes in the world. And even without capitalism, governments would prioritize recruiting magic users to their organization and would likely only last all that long if they had some control over magic in the first place. 

There are already settings that kind of touch on these ideas, like Eberron and Dark Sun, but none really go that deep into it. Magic would be bad for us, at least in our current socioeconomic system. It makes me want to make a new setting revolving around these ideas . . . but I'm already making two new D&D settings. I really probably shouldn't start making a third.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> We need a {-} tag.
> 
> Or is that the default?



We need a charlie brown tag for NZ pizza threads.


----------



## el-remmen

OH WHY! OH *WHY*! OH *WHY *DO I ENGAGE? OH *WHY OH *WHY *OH WHY!*


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> OH WHY! OH *WHY*! OH *WHY *DO I ENGAGE? OH *WHY OH *WHY *OH WHY!*



Because *this* time, it will be different.


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> Because *this* time, it will be different.



Worse is different, isn't it?


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> Worse is different, isn't it?



Yes. Yes, it is.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> And be sure to put the positive-only tag in the title.  And refer to it often.  That way, everyone will think twice before they _dare _to challenge your opinion.
> 
> (That's how the [+] tag works, right?  You're only allowed to agree with me?  I think that's how it works.)




So, I'm hearing we make a "The simulationist narrativist triumphal pineapple pizza [+]" thread, and report anyone who can't resist being negative? ...  It's so tempting, but I fear the mods would unfortunately judge us in light of the spirit it was intended, instead of judging those who were throwing tuna everywhere.


----------



## trappedslider

Man steals lawnmower, cuts victim’s grass, police say
					

A suspected thief in Texas made off with an unusual item last week — a lawnmower — but not before mowing the victim’s front and back yards, according to police.




					www.woodtv.com


----------



## Cadence

Given how much they seemingly feel the need to jump into every conversation about pepperoni pizza, I hypothesize that almost no one actually enjoys pineapple pizza.  They just enjoy not enjoying pepperoni pizza, and pineapple is the sunk cost their psyche uses to justify all the time they spend jousting with pepperoni on the interwebs.

(You might think pepperoni and pineapple are reversible there, except for the fact that most pepperoni lovers have never thought of pineapple on pizza and seem just fine with that - until a pineapple proselytizer gets them, and then they're still mostly fine with it).


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> Man steals lawnmower, cuts victim’s grass, police say
> 
> 
> A suspected thief in Texas made off with an unusual item last week — a lawnmower — but not before mowing the victim’s front and back yards, according to police.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.woodtv.com



I bet he was one of those variant vampires who's foiled by uncut grass rather than spilled rice.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Given how much they seemingly feel the need to jump into every conversation about pepperoni pizza, I hypothesize that almost no one actually enjoys pineapple pizza.  They just enjoy not enjoying pepperoni pizza, and pineapple is the sunk cost their psyche uses to justify all the time they spend jousting with pepperoni on the interwebs.
> 
> (You might think pepperoni and pineapple are reversible there, except for the fact that most pepperoni lovers have never thought of pineapple on pizza and seem just fine with that - until a pineapple proselytizer gets them, and then they're still mostly fine with it).



I have pineapple on my pepperoni pizza. Does that make it pepperoni pizza, or pineapple pizza?


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> I have pineapple on my pepperoni pizza. Does that make it pepperoni pizza, or pineapple pizza?




I mean sure, if we're allowing heartbreaker or heavily home-brewed pizzas.  But then how are we supposed to have a discussion using the well established pizza terminology and genres?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I mean sure, if we're allowing heartbreaker or heavily hone-brewed pizzas.  But then how are we supposed to have a discussion using the well established pizza terminology and genres?



Is this another one of those if it cant be 100% agreed upon by the internet it simply cant be discussed things?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Is this another one of those if it cant be 100% agreed upon by the internet it simply cant be discussed things?



I refuse to admit to that, and if that's too much for you to take with your tuna pizza, then I don't know what we're doing here!


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Given how much they seemingly feel the need to jump into every conversation about pepperoni pizza, I hypothesize that almost no one actually enjoys pineapple pizza.  They just enjoy not enjoying pepperoni pizza, and pineapple is the sunk cost their psyche uses to justify all the time they spend jousting with pepperoni on the interwebs.
> 
> (You might think pepperoni and pineapple are reversible there, except for the fact that most pepperoni lovers have never thought of pineapple on pizza and seem just fine with that - until a pineapple proselytizer gets them, and then they're still mostly fine with it).



The last time I ordered pizza, it had pineapple, jalapeno peppers, and bacon on it.  Since I was the only one here eating it, and I didn't share any testimony or photos of my purchase online, I really didn't have anything to justify, to anyone.  I ordered it because that's what sounded good.  (shrug)  No politics, no psychology, no social pressure...just a deep and abiding love of tangy, fruity flavors married with savory meat.  I'm one of the folks who enjoys applesauce on pork chops.  We enjoy a squeeze of lime on our chicken tacos, too.  We love a marmalade glaze on roasted duck, mint sauce on roasted lamb and yes, we enjoy pineapple on pizza.

 There are more of us out here than you think.  We are your neighbor, your best friend from high school, your children, your employees.

We are Legion.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> The last time I ordered pizza, it had pineapple, jalapeno peppers, and bacon on it.  Since I was the only one here eating it, and I didn't share any testimony or photos of my purchase online, I really didn't have anything to justify, to anyone.  I ordered it because that's what sounded good.  (shrug)  No politics, no psychology, no social pressure...just a deep and abiding love of tangy, fruity flavors married with savory meat.  I'm one of the folks who enjoys applesauce on pork chops.  We enjoy a squeeze of lime on our chicken tacos, too.  We love a marmalade glaze on roasted duck, mint sauce on roasted lamb and yes, we enjoy pineapple on pizza.
> 
> There are more of us out here than you think.  We are your neighbor, your best friend from high school, your children, your employees.
> 
> We are Legion.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> I have pineapple on my pepperoni pizza. Does that make it pepperoni pizza, or pineapple pizza?




Pineapple.

It’s like saying “My party has one bard. What does that make my party?”

Terrible.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pineapple.
> 
> It’s like saying “My party has one bard. What does that make my party?”
> 
> Terrible.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> View attachment 156847


----------



## dragoner

"Sometimes I haves a great notion ..."
... to post in a thread I probably shouldn't (jumping in the river _would _be better).


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pineapple.
> 
> It’s like saying “My party has one bard. What does that make my party?”
> 
> Terrible.



I'm the Bard. Or Bard multi-class. Or just have singing skill.


----------



## payn

Also, the bard. My parties are terrible until the bourbon is half gone.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Also, the bard. My parties are terrible until the bourbon is half gone.



Waiting for the game I'm a cleric/bard in to restart.  Might only be the second bard I've ever played though.

If it's a beer called Photon Sphere instead of bourbon should it be for an outer space game?  What is the sci-fi bar equivalent?

Will the replicators on the enterprise make pineapple pizza, or does that violate one of the directives or laws of robotics or something?


----------



## trappedslider

from Cyberpunk 2077


----------



## South by Southwest

Ryujin said:


> I'm the Bard. Or Bard multi-class. Or just have singing skill.



Multi-classing a bard...sure, because butter on bacon _does_ make it taste buttery, after all. Right? Right??


----------



## Hussar

What's everyone's opinion of corn and/or egg on pizza?

Gotta admit, both of those came as rather a shock.  Never minding mochi pizza (rice cake - it's actually not too bad), and some of the weirder abominations of nature that I get in Japan.

By comparison, pineapple is pretty tame.  And, @CleverNickName - that pizza sounds really, really good.


----------



## Parmandur

Hussar said:


> What's everyone's opinion of corn and/or egg on pizza?
> 
> Gotta admit, both of those came as rather a shock.  Never minding mochi pizza (rice cake - it's actually not too bad), and some of the weirder abominations of nature that I get in Japan.
> 
> By comparison, pineapple is pretty tame.  And, @CleverNickName - that pizza sounds really, really good.



Both are good, in my experience: the kind if place that is bold enough to offer those knows what they are doing.

My wife has made egg pizza at home, and it is dooooooooooopeee.


----------



## payn

Hussar said:


> What's everyone's opinion of corn and/or egg on pizza?
> 
> Gotta admit, both of those came as rather a shock.  Never minding mochi pizza (rice cake - it's actually not too bad), and some of the weirder abominations of nature that I get in Japan.
> 
> By comparison, pineapple is pretty tame.  And, @CleverNickName - that pizza sounds really, really good.



Cant knock it until I rock it, Tho, I am super picky about egg.


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> Multi-classing a bard...sure, because butter on bacon _does_ make it taste buttery, after all. Right? Right??



Everything tastes better with bacon. Everything tastes better with butter. What could go wrong?


----------



## Cadence

Hussar said:


> What's everyone's opinion of corn and/or egg on pizza?




Pizza place I worked at in the late 80s/early 90s had a slice of the day with egg on it - Denver Omelette.  It was pretty good.  (A bit better than the cheeseburger one with a pickle slice and ketchup added at the end iirc,, quite a bit better than the taco one with corn chips, and presumably a lot better than the teriyaki one we never sold one of).


----------



## Cadence

"Some might pick a word that had a positive or neutral connotation for things like your multi-topping pizza, like multi-flavored or synergistic, but instead in our sacred classification system it is formally an abomination.  Just keep in mind that the blessed system doesn't mean abomination to have a negative connotation like it would in a non-technical pizza parlor discussion.  (Also, we find your topping choice to be sub-par and succeed at nothing very well.  But still, it's fine and we might nibble a bite now and then to stay in touch with the more common persons). "


----------



## payn

Egg like scrambled on a breakfast pizza (with plenty of hot sauce)? Yes. Egg like hard boiled and just slapped on there? No.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Egg like scrambled on a breakfast pizza (with plenty of hot sauce)? Yes. Egg like hard boiled and just slapped on there? No.



Egg fried on top of the pizza in the oven.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Egg fried on top of the pizza in the oven.



I strongly prefer my eggs scrambled, but I could live with this. Scrambled eggs on a breakfast-themed pizza work really well, IMO.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> I strongly prefer my eggs scrambled, but I could live with this. Scrambled eggs on a breakfast-themed pizza work really well, IMO.



I completely believe it. I like eggs in pretty much all permutations.


----------



## Retreater

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I don't really know where to place this, so I'll just place it here. I might turn it into a thread later.



Regarding "bad magic" in our world, I was writing a novel with the elevator pitch of "American Harry Potter." It focused on how magic would be completely abused by corporate interests and limited to the soulless enterprise of the elite. The "Chosen One" was killed by the dean in the prologue after the dean planted false prophecy to encourage the youth to rise against him. 
It was a very pessimistic read, which shouldn't surprise anyone here.


----------



## Ryujin

Retreater said:


> Regarding "bad magic" in our world, I was writing a novel with the elevator pitch of "American Harry Potter." It focused on how magic would be completely abused by corporate interests and limited to the soulless enterprise of the elite. The "Chosen One" was killed by the dean in the prologue after the dean planted false prophecy to encourage the youth to rise against him.
> It was a very pessimistic read, which shouldn't surprise anyone here.



Have you seen any of the web series "Strowlers"? In it, hunting down and either controlling, or wiping out the power of magic capable people is a government thing.

_EDIT_ - Here's a link to the "World Bible", that has a quick synopsis.









						Strowlers World Bible - Zombie Orpheus Entertainment | DriveThruRPG.com
					

Strowlers World Bible - Magic has returned to the modern world and nothing will be the same again. In response, the United States Department of




					www.drivethrurpg.com


----------



## prabe

Well.

*That* was well-deserved.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Scrambled eggs on a breakfast pizza makes sense. But in any other context? 

Gimme dem oozy egg bois


----------



## RealAlHazred

Okay, nice weekend break. Now, let's see what the swine are shrieking about now...


----------



## payn

Now we need "D&D isnt narrativist, is it spiritual?" thread.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Now we need "D&D isnt narrativist, is it spiritual?" thread.



Do we *really* need another "Satanic Panic" thread?


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> Do we *really* need another "Satanic Panic" thread?



yes


----------



## eyeheartawk

prabe said:


> Do we *really* need another "Satanic Panic" thread?



Make it.

I wanna yell about James Ward some more. 

It keeps my teeth white and my bones strong.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Do we *really* need another "Satanic Panic" thread?




1. Yes. 

2. Only if we can also tie it into the Disco Panic. 

3. Only only if we finally realize that all panics are really about attacking the disadvantaged in society. 

4. Sorry. Too real for this thread. In other news, Francisco Franco is still dead and pineapple pizza is still some godawful New Zealand trash pizza, right there with canned spaghetti on pizza.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> right there with canned spaghetti on pizza.


----------



## Cadence

Now I'm picturing spaghetti-o's on a square pizza.  :-/


----------



## payn

I thought videogame consoles were off the table for failing to be a complete and totally perfect analogy for TTRPGs?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I thought videogame consoles were off the table for failing to be a complete and totally perfect analogy for TTRPGs?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> View attachment 156921View attachment 156923


----------



## el-remmen

Excuse me. I hope you don't mind me putting these here instead of as reaction/response to the usual absurd BS.

    


Thank you.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. Yes.
> 
> 2. Only if we can also tie it into the Disco Panic.
> 
> 3. Only only if we finally realize that all panics are really about attacking the disadvantaged in society.
> 
> 4. Sorry. Too real for this thread. In other news, Francisco Franco is still dead and pineapple pizza is still some godawful New Zealand trash pizza, right there with canned spaghetti on pizza.



Sorry, Panic at the Disco (like Pineapple Pizza) is within the Canadian purview.


(Probably should have gone in the cover songs thread)


----------



## South by Southwest

el-remmen said:


> Excuse me. I hope you don't mind me putting these here instead of as reaction/response to the usual absurd BS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.



So it was an emotional day, then, eh?


----------



## J.Quondam

* emojional


----------



## payn

Let's do beers;
5E _Coors light_
4E _Zima_
3E _Ice House_
2E _Coors The Banquet Beer_
ADD _Pabst Blue Ribbon_
ODD _Old Style_


----------



## South by Southwest

Okay, Zima ain't no beer. But now why Coors Light for 5e? Thin and nothing terribly strong in there to trouble anyone's tastes?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Let's do beers;
> 5E _Coors light_
> 4E _Zima_
> 3E _Ice House_
> 2E _Coors The Banquet Beer_
> ADD _Pabst Blue Ribbon_
> ODD _Old Style_




It makes me sad that you count those as beers.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Remember, Zima is the official drink of the future and Babylon 5 .


----------



## eyeheartawk

Also, I guess, the unintentional lesson from this endorsement is that, uhm, after drinking Zima you turn into a giant CGI telepathic energy being-man and disappear.

Who's in for two?

Actually, I'm wrong, wrong dude. You can fight in the alien kumite


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Let's do beers;
> 5E _Coors light_
> 4E _Zima_
> 3E _Ice House_
> 2E _Coors The Banquet Beer_
> ADD _Pabst Blue Ribbon_
> ODD _Old Style_



my homebrew - _Jiminy Q's Ol' Spunkiferous Ale,_ funky in flavor & chunky in texture


----------



## Deset Gled

payn said:


> Let's do beers;
> 5E _Coors light_
> 4E _Zima_
> 3E _Ice House_
> 2E _Coors The Banquet Beer_
> ADD _Pabst Blue Ribbon_
> ODD _Old Style_




ODD: Dandelion wine.  Made in a bathtub.
ADD: New Albion Brewing Company Ale.  From Wikipedia: "Despite its failure to survive, which [the founder] recognized as inevitable due to limitations of space and equipment and inability to find new funding for expansion, the New Albion Brewing Company provided a microbrewery blueprint which ... inspired the craft beer, microbrewing and brewpub movements which began in the 1980s and continue to the present day."  The name has been resurrected in the past decade, but we all know it's not the same thing.  Heck, half of the people drinking it don't know what the original tasted like.
2E: Schlitz.  Once the favorite, now a textbook study of how to fail.
3E:  Negra Modelo.  Because it's the most complex macro brew I could think of.
4E: Zima.  I would also have accepted White Claw (but they don't make Zima anymore).  Either way, you should not feel guilty about drinking it.  Own it.
5E: Bud Light.  It's not particularly heavy or complex.  Everyone argues about it and recommends a better alternative, but half of the things people will push you towards are just a rebranded bottle from Anheuser-Busch.  At the end of the day it's the most popular in America, it's consistent, and it gets the job done.


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> I thought videogame consoles were off the table for failing to be a complete and totally perfect analogy for TTRPGs?



All analogies involve a mixture of similarity and difference, but there needs to be sufficient similarity to provide a useful comparison.


----------



## Deset Gled

Parmandur said:


> All analogies involve a mixture of similarity and difference, but there needs to be sufficient similarity to provide a useful comparison.




"Space-time is like some simple and familiar system which is both intuitively understandable and precisely analogous, and if I were Richard Feynman I'd be able to come up with it."


----------



## CleverNickName

Beer, you say?

I think BECMI would be Budweiser.  (And it pains me to admit this.)  Why would I map my favorite D&D edition to my least-favorite beer?  Because like Budweiser, BECM was created to be inoffensive, with wide appeal, and it was the first mass-marketed product to be aimed at teenagers.

So I guess that makes AD&D 2E something like Rolling Rock or Shiner Bock.  It's the same beer, with the same mass-marketing and the same target group...just with a little extra color.

3E would be more like a small-batch craft brew.  Everyone was drinking microbrews in the early-to-mid 2000s, but nobody was drinking the _same two microbrews_...we all had our own special local version of choice, sometimes even their own breweries and home recipes.  The microbrew trend kicked off the Beer Renaissance, and the beer market has been carried to new heights because of it...but nowadays, it's considered fiddly and overwrought.

The 4E comparison to Zima is pretty spot-on.  It was a completely new direction, so much that many folks don't agree that it is beer at all.  It was a bold move, and for all its good points and marketing budget, it was a bridge too far for folks who were hoping for a "microbrew Budweiser."

I guess that makes 5E more like an IPA.  I mean, sure, it's just another grocery-store beer in a fancy can, sometimes even with the same Budweiser name stamped on the side.  It's all over the place, every store carries it and all the celebrities are enjoying it, and breweries of all sizes are getting in on the trend (to varying degrees of success).  You're considered "unhip" if you aren't drinking IPAs.


----------



## Parmandur

You see, these beer analogies actually work better than the video game technology one does. Sure, beer making has evolved in the past 50 years, but it hasn't changed at the fundamental level like video games have between the Atari 2600 and PS5.


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> ODD: Dandelion wine.  Made in a bathtub.
> ADD: New Albion Brewing Company Ale.  From Wikipedia: "Despite its failure to survive, which [the founder] recognized as inevitable due to limitations of space and equipment and inability to find new funding for expansion, the New Albion Brewing Company provided a microbrewery blueprint which ... inspired the craft beer, microbrewing and brewpub movements which began in the 1980s and continue to the present day."  The name has been resurrected in the past decade, but we all know it's not the same thing.  Heck, half of the people drinking it don't know what the original tasted like.
> 2E: Schlitz.  Once the favorite, now a textbook study of how to fail.
> 3E:  Negra Modelo.  Because it's the most complex macro brew I could think of.
> 4E: Zima.  I would also have accepted White Claw (but they don't make Zima anymore).  Either way, you should not feel guilty about drinking it.  Own it.
> 5E: Bud Light.  It's not particularly heavy or complex.  Everyone argues about it and recommends a better alternative, but half of the things people will push you towards are just a rebranded bottle from Anheuser-Busch.  At the end of the day it's the most popular in America, it's consistent, and it gets the job done.



Not bad. I'm sticking with Coors light tho as I will actually drink that.

Seems a lot of agreement on 4E being Zima


----------



## billd91

I'm not sure I'd compare any decent game to Budweiser (any variety). That's just sad no matter how inoffensive/mild it's designed to be.

One of life's mysteries: I've volunteered at beer tents at a number of public events here in Wisconsin. Never fails - bunch of biker bros looking all tough in their Harley Davidson leathers come up. And rather than order a beer with some real flavor like one of the microbrews, it's all Bud Light. Guess they're trying to avoid drinking beer so they're sober for the ride home...


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> I'm not sure I'd compare any decent game to Budweiser (any variety). That's just sad no matter how inoffensive/mild it's designed to be.
> 
> One of life's mysteries: I've volunteered at beer tents at a number of public events here in Wisconsin. Never fails - bunch of biker bros looking all tough in their Harley Davidson leathers come up. And rather than order a beer with some real flavor like one of the microbrews, it's all Bud Light. Guess they're trying to avoid drinking beer so they're sober for the ride home...



It's true tho, you can drink that swill all day and not catch a buzz.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> I'm not sure I'd compare any decent game to Budweiser (any variety). That's just sad no matter how inoffensive/mild it's designed to be.
> 
> One of life's mysteries: I've volunteered at beer tents at a number of public events here in Wisconsin. Never fails - bunch of biker bros looking all tough in their Harley Davidson leathers come up. And rather than order a beer with some real flavor like one of the microbrews, it's all Bud Light. Guess they're trying to avoid drinking beer so they're sober for the ride home...



Some of us refer to _those_ bikers as "pirates." Yaaarrrrr.

S'OK though; I'm part of the Power Rangers sub classification.


----------



## Parmandur

billd91 said:


> I'm not sure I'd compare any decent game to Budweiser (any variety). That's just sad no matter how inoffensive/mild it's designed to be.
> 
> One of life's mysteries: I've volunteered at beer tents at a number of public events here in Wisconsin. Never fails - bunch of biker bros looking all tough in their Harley Davidson leathers come up. And rather than order a beer with some real flavor like one of the microbrews, it's all Bud Light. Guess they're trying to avoid drinking beer so they're sober for the ride home...



Monopoly or Risk, maybe?


----------



## billd91

Parmandur said:


> Monopoly or Risk, maybe?



Oh, heck no. Even those games are too good to be compared to Bud. Miller, maybe, but that's because Miller's taste at least approximates beer.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I guess that makes 5E more like an IPA.  I mean, sure, it's just another grocery-store beer in a fancy can, sometimes even with the same Budweiser name stamped on the side.  It's all over the place, every store carries it and all the celebrities are enjoying it, and breweries of all sizes are getting in on the trend (to varying degrees of success).  You're considered "unhip" if you aren't drinking IPAs.




Oh please don't make 5e an IPA, I actually like 5e.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Oh please don't make 5e an IPA, I actually like 5e.



mmmm, delicious! Cant wait to crack a can!


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Oh please don't make 5e an IPA, I actually like 5e.



Hey, be fair.  Some of those IPAs are pretty tasty, as far as bug spray goes.

(I like _some _IPAs, but some of them are just too much for me.)


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> mmmm, delicious! Cant wait to crack a can!


----------



## eyeheartawk

What does Double India Pale Ale mean? 

They use a hydraulic press to get even more hops in there?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Hey, be fair.  Some of those IPAs are pretty tasty, as far as bug spray goes.
> 
> (I like _some _IPAs, but some of them are just too much for me.)



lol, Goose Island had a delicious seasonal with a disgusting name.


----------



## Cadence

If we get to sci-fi games, my nominee for the most complex, but eminently playable, one would be Olde Hickory's Photon Sphere.  Especially appropriate if the art in the book is old school.





"Photon Sphere is a pitch black beer on the edge of The Event Horizon. The gravity here is so strong flavors of cinnamon, vanilla, cocoa and habanero orbit each other around the edge of a chocolate bourbon abyss, shimmering with a twinkle of honey. Prepare to have your tongue spaghettified."


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> If we get to sci-fi games, my nominee for the most complex, but eminently playable, one would be Olde Hickory's Photon Sphere.  Especially appropriate if the art in the book is old school.
> 
> View attachment 156949
> 
> "Photon Sphere is a pitch black beer on the edge of The Event Horizon. The gravity here is so strong flavors of cinnamon, vanilla, cocoa and habanero orbit each other around the edge of a chocolate bourbon abyss, shimmering with a twinkle of honey. Prepare to have your tongue spaghettified."



I've got a stock full of bourbon barrel porter I brewed in my cellar aging. Almost 5 years old now and that means its going to be deliciously ready to go next fall/winter.


----------



## payn

That reminds me that I need to get off my ass and get a Jalapeno IPA going before summer is gone.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> If we get to sci-fi games, my nominee for the most complex, but eminently playable, one would be Olde Hickory's Photon Sphere.  Especially appropriate if the art in the book is old school.
> 
> View attachment 156949
> 
> "Photon Sphere is a pitch black beer on the edge of The Event Horizon. The gravity here is so strong flavors of cinnamon, vanilla, cocoa and habanero orbit each other around the edge of a chocolate bourbon abyss, shimmering with a twinkle of honey. Prepare to have your tongue spaghettified."



If Traveller were a beer?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> That reminds me that I need to get off my ass and get a Jalapeno IPA going before summer is gone.




First, it came for your pizza.

_And you made light of it._

Now, it comes for your beer.






_*WHERE IS YOUR LAUGHTER NOW?*_


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> If Traveller were a beer?



One of my friends can't stand anything that spicy... so even get some who die in the equivalent of character creation.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> If Traveller were a beer?



Easy, Schell's Deer brand. If you never had (likely) thats just too damn bad!


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> First, it came for your pizza.
> 
> _And you made light of it._
> 
> Now, it comes for your beer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*WHERE IS YOUR LAUGHTER NOW?*_



I'd drink that while eating Hawaiian pizza any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> Oh please don't make 5e an IPA, I actually like 5e.



That's OSR hipster versions of D&D. Those versions harken back to days when we played before D&D was cool. That's totally IPA territory.


----------



## Deset Gled

payn said:


> Not bad. I'm sticking with Coors light tho as I will actually drink that.




I went with Bud Light simply because it's the #1 selling beer by a large margin, just like D&D. But I'd pay to see a movie where Burt Reynolds smuggles a truckload of D&D books across the Mississippi, while being chased by Patricia Pulling and Jack Chick.


----------



## el-remmen

How is that that some posters you are in agreement with somehow still find a way to respond in a way that sounds like they're arguing with you?


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> How is that that some posters you are in agreement with somehow still find a way to respond in a way that sounds like they're arguing with you?



I strongly disagree! In my experience, it's more as if some posters I agree with manage to sound like they are arguing, even if they aren't.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

OD&D: Moonshine. Little of the ol' backyard still. Homebrew at its finest. Yee-haw! 

AD&D: Ardberg Scotch. Scotchy scotch scotch. The purplish verbiage of Gygax, like the peaty flavors of Ardberg, are either a selling point or a serious barrier to enjoyment. 

Holmes Basic: Hendrick's Gin. It seems like a lot people in the know rave about it, and yet ... it's gin. 

Molvay/Cook: Flor de Cana 18 yr rum. Deceptively simple, yet you keep returning to it. 

BECMI: Jose Cuervo. Everyone has had it at one point. And everyone has gotten sick on it, too. 

2E: Southern Comfort. If you have to ask ....

3E: Fireball! At one point, it seemed like a great break from the past ... a great idea. But in retrospect .... 

4E: Green Chartreuse. Some call it bracing. Some call it abrasive. It's definitely a taste to love or loathe. 

5E: Tito's Vodka. Everyone likes it! But you know, it's vodka.


----------



## el-remmen

J.Quondam said:


> I strongly disagree! In my experience, it's more as if some posters I agree with manage to sound like they are arguing, even if they aren't.




I hate you.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> OD&D: Moonshine. Little of the ol' backyard still. Homebrew at its finest. Yee-haw!
> 
> AD&D: Ardberg Scotch. Scotchy scotch scotch. The purplish verbiage of Gygax, like the peaty flavors of Ardberg, are either a selling point or a serious barrier to enjoyment.
> 
> Holmes Basic: Hendrick's Gin. It seems like a lot people in the know rave about it, and yet ... it's gin.
> 
> Molvay/Cook: Flor de Cana 18 yr rum. Deceptively simple, yet you keep returning to it.
> 
> BECMI: Jose Cuervo. Everyone has had it at one point. And everyone has gotten sick on it, too.
> 
> 2E: Southern Comfort. If you have to ask ....
> 
> 3E: Fireball! At one point, it seemed like a great break from the past ... a great idea. But in retrospect ....
> 
> 4E: Green Chartreuse. Some call it bracing. Some call it abrasive. It's definitely a taste to love or loathe.
> 
> 5E: Tito's Vodka. Everyone likes it! But you know, it's vodka.



Folks, we have a winner.

Though I disagree on 4E being Chartreuse. Maybe Absinthe is more appropos.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Folks, we have a winner.
> 
> Though I disagree on 4E being Chartreuse. Maybe Absinthe is more appropos.




In fairness, I am more fond of Chartreuse than most.


Absinthe isn't bad, but my second choice for 4e was Campari.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In fairness, I am more fond of Chartreuse than most.
> 
> 
> Absinthe isn't bad, but my second choice for 4e was Campari.



Oh, I love, love, love Chartreuse. That's why I think something more abrasive might fit 4E.


----------



## payn

Liquor now?
ODD Jack Daniels
ADD Jim Beam
2E Tulemore Dew
3E Middleton
4E Windsor
5E Jameson


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> That's OSR hipster versions of D&D. Those versions harken back to days when we played before D&D was cool. That's totally IPA territory.



Yeah, I think that 5e might just be that little craft micro brew that no one has ever heard of, except that the brewery was bought up by a megabrew 5 years before _you_ ever heard of it.


----------



## Cadence

Fore elsewhere:

I've read a lot of your posts.  That wasn't the only thing that did!


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Yeah, I think that 5e might just be that little craft micro brew that no one has ever heard of, except that the brewery was bought up by a megabrew 5 years before _you_ ever heard of it.



Elysian, Goose Island, or Ballast Point?

EDIT: I mean, it *might* be Wicked Weed ...


----------



## CleverNickName

eyeheartawk said:


> What does Double India Pale Ale mean?
> 
> They use a hydraulic press to get even more hops in there?



A double IPA is supposed to be an India Pale Ale that was made with double the malt and double the hops, and therefore would be "twice as strong."   But theory isn't practice.  (Warning: beer nerd has entered the chat.)

According to the Brewer's Association Style Guide, an American-Style India Pale Ale has an ABV between 5% and 6%, and between 50 and 70 IBUs.  If it doesn't, it can't be called an IPA.

And a Double India Pale Ale, according to the Style Guide, has an ABV of 6.3% to 8.4%, and between 55 and 85 IBUs...slightly stronger and more bitter, but nowhere near "double strength."  In fact, most "double IPAs" have only 0.3% more alcohol and 5 more IBUs than regular IPAs (barely enough to taste a difference, but they usually cost significantly more.)

Basically, Double IPAs are Rogues.  Everyone talks about how strong and powerful they are, but really they're just Fighters with a touch of extra bitterness, and a marketing gimmick.


----------



## Gnosistika

Snarf Zagyg said:


> First, it came for your pizza.
> 
> _And you made light of it._
> 
> Now, it comes for your beer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*WHERE IS YOUR LAUGHTER NOW?*_



That stuff is dangerous. Here in South Africa we had people brewing beer from that devil fruit and well - one person turned blind (not kidding) and at least one person died.

So for the love of things good don't brew with the devil fruit!


----------



## Parmandur

Gnosistika said:


> That stuff is dangerous. Here in South Africa we had people brewing beer from that devil fruit and well - one person turned blind (not kidding) and at least one person died.
> 
> So for the love of things good don't brew with the devil fruit!



Well, I'm not going to do it, but I'll trust the professionals.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Well, I'm not going to do it, but I'll trust the professionals.



Hold my beer...


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Hold my beer...



Bonus points if it is also infused with ham and cheese.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Bonus points if it is also infused with ham and cheese.



Too late...


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Too late...



Nunc dimittis servum tuum, Domine...


----------



## Hussar

I have to admit, I absolutely LOVE the comparison of D&D to alcohols.  Two great honking nerddoms joining together.


----------



## Asisreo

What's the point in bots spamming weird posts in different languages?


----------



## Ryujin

Asisreo said:


> What's the point in bots spamming weird posts in different languages?



Never understood that one either. If the forum doesn't support the character set that you're spamming, why even bother? It makes spotting the Chinese and Cyrillic spam dead easy.


----------



## prabe

Well, that's really just a symptom of not being able to see past your conceptual monotype, innit? Dunno why you felt compelled to share it, dunno why people think they can talk you into a different viewpoint.


----------



## payn

It is funny how essentially an emotionally charged one star review posting gets a 10,20,30 page thread going.


----------



## Cadence

Kind of disappointed it hasn't gotten to

"The fact that you can make an analogy of it to a video game system shows how gamist it is.  That's why if you want any good adjectives to describe your ttrpg experience you should try _______.   Let me elaborate."

... yet.


----------



## eyeheartawk

"I'ma just pop into that theory thread, see why it's been going for so long"


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Kind of disappointed it hasn't gotten to
> 
> "The fact that you can make an analogy of it to a video game system shows how gamist it is.  That's why if you want any good adjectives to describe your ttrpg experience you should try _______.   Let me elaborate."
> 
> ... yet.



Well, you could give it time--that does seem inevitable--or you could just charge right in there yourself and be the interlocutor you want to be in the world.

I'm sure you'll make the right choice.


----------



## prabe

eyeheartawk said:


> "I'ma just pop into that theory thread, see why it's been going for so long"


----------



## CleverNickName

"If you'd just agree with everything I wrote previously, you'll see that I'm correct.  Why is this so hard for you?"


----------



## el-remmen




----------



## Retreater

I'm making a conscious effort to be more positive on here (like 30% positive posts vs. 85% pessimistic), but even my positive comments get taken in the worst possible way.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Achilles: Socratic questioning never works on the internet.

Tortoise: What do you mean by that?


----------



## CleverNickName

"Discussion?  No no, you misunderstand.  I don't want to discuss anything, I'm only here so that you can tell me I'm right."


----------



## Parmandur

Retreater said:


> I'm making a conscious effort to be more positive on here (like 30% positive posts vs. 85% pessimistic), but even my positive comments get taken in the worst possible way.



How could you say that????????????


----------



## Retreater

Parmandur said:


> How could you say that????????????



Everything I say should be taken with a big grain of sh*t.


----------



## payn

I have not interviewed in 5 years. Now I got 3 internal applications in. Any tips on getting interview ready?


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> I have not interviewed in 5 years. Now I got 3 internal applications in. Any tips on getting interview ready?



If you've still got the job search description(s) around, make sure to frame your interview answers with the language they used in the job description


----------



## South by Southwest

Retreater said:


> I'm making a conscious effort to be more positive on here (like 30% positive posts vs. 85% pessimistic), but even my positive comments get taken in the worst possible way.



Buddy, I _like_ your math.


----------



## Retreater

payn said:


> I have not interviewed in 5 years. Now I got 3 internal applications in. Any tips on getting interview ready?



Yeah, definitely read up on the job descriptions, have questions ready you want to ask, be prepared with relevant stats that display your effectiveness at your current job, smile, be positive.


----------



## Gradine

Retreater said:


> have questions ready you want to ask



Oh yes, this is key. ALWAYS bring questions to ask. Preferably questions that are both thoughtful and specifically relevant to the position (beyond questions of timeline/pay/etc.). Having no questions to ask is a death wish.

Also, ALWAYS ALWAYS within 24 hours send a thank you note to the committee.


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> Yeah, definitely read up on the job descriptions, have questions ready you want to ask, be prepared with relevant stats that display your effectiveness at your current job, smile, be positive.





Gradine said:


> If you've still got the job search description(s) around, make sure to frame your interview answers with the language they used in the job description




Good stuff folks thanks! 

I am feeling pretty lucky since one of the jobs was actually closed to applicants last Friday. I met the hiring manager yesterday and we really hit it off. I have never heard of them opening it back up (mostly an HR decision) but after my boss told the hiring manager I was fully supported and that this was my "dream job"  they made an exception for me to apply!

A couple of these jobs are with teams I know very well. I am totally qualified for them and could start immediately and make an effect. However, this one I applied for today is with a new team doing work I'm less familiar with but have the skills to do it. After so many years a change sounds refreshing, but also kinda scary.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Good stuff folks thanks!
> 
> I am feeling pretty lucky since one of the jobs was actually closed to applicants last Friday. I met the hiring manager yesterday and we really hit it off. I have never heard of them opening it back up (mostly an HR decision) but after my boss told the hiring manager I was fully supported and that this was my "dream job"  they made an exception for me to apply!
> 
> A couple of these jobs are with teams I know very well. I am totally qualified for them and could start immediately and make an effect. However, this one I applied for today is with a new team doing work I'm less familiar with but have the skills to do it. After so many years a change sounds refreshing, but also kinda scary.



At this point my "dream job" is retirement and I can officially take full retirement in less than 18 months. Can't afford it but it's nice to dream plus have the, "You know I could retire at any time, right?" Sword of Damocles to wave over the boss's head


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> At this point my "dream job" is retirement and I can officially take full retirement in less than 18 months. Can't afford it but it's nice to dream plus have the, "You know I could retire at any time, right?" Sword of Damocles to wave over the boss's head



Yeap, I hear ya. Actually one of the engineers I work with is a super knowledgeable guy, but is ready to retire at a moments notice. He is very short and direct and everyone cringes when he is on conference calls. I cant wait to enter that stage!


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Yeap, I hear ya. Actually one of the engineers I work with is a super knowledgeable guy, but is ready to retire at a moments notice. He is very short and direct and everyone cringes when he is on conference calls. I cant wait to enter that stage!



I've been at the uni for almost 21 years now and yet I'm not the person with seniority in my group. There's still one person who has been there longer but he's younger than me, so can't retire as soon. My group is 7, plus our manager. Four of us have more seniority than our manager, who was an external hire. Two of us, who do the lion's share of the day-to-day work, can walk next summer.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> I've been at the uni for almost 21 years now and yet I'm not the person with seniority in my group. There's still one person who has been there longer but he's younger than me, so can't retire as soon. My group is 7, plus our manager. Four of us have more seniority than our manager, who was an external hire. Two of us, who do the lion's share of the day-to-day work, can walk next summer.



Im a corpo so seniority doesn't really matter. Though, I hit 20 years next month!


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> Im a corpo so seniority doesn't really matter. Though, I hit 20 years next month!



corpo huh?


----------



## eyeheartawk

You know what I regret?

Saying screw it and chowing down on tuna fish at 7:30 AM.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Whenever it comes to expectations, I remember some words a boss of mine said some 20 years ago at my yearly performance review.

"Liane, I received _nothing _but rave reviews of your performance at [customer]. Truly_ exceptional_ reviews and accolades. Really exceeding expectations. But I _expected_ you to exceed my expectations, so really you only _met_ my expectations. And since I expected you to exceed my expectations but you only met my expectations, technically you did not meet my expectations."

And then later that week he bought a second Mercedes with all the money he didn't give out in raises and bonuses.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Man, please, please don't just write giant walls of text in sentence fragments with no capitalization. It's really hard to read.


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Whenever it comes to expectations, I remember some words a boss of mine said some 20 years ago at my yearly performance review.
> 
> "Liane, I received _nothing _but rave reviews of your performance at [customer]. Truly_ exceptional_ reviews and accolades. Really exceeding expectations. But I _expected_ you to exceed my expectations, so really you only _met_ my expectations. And since I expected you to exceed my expectations but you only met my expectations, technically you did not meet my expectations."
> 
> And then later that week he bought a second Mercedes with all the money he didn't give out in raises and bonuses.




I've heard of people not getting salary increases because they don't have 5 years' experience with software that was less than 2 years old..._nobody _had 5 years experience with it.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I've heard of people not getting salary increases because they don't have 5 years' experience with software that was less than 2 years old..._nobody _had 5 years experience with it.



Catch 22!


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> I've heard of people not getting salary increases because they don't have 5 years' experience with software that was less than 2 years old..._nobody _had 5 years experience with it.



Because they were lazy and didn't pull 2 years of triple overtime unpaid, no doubt.


----------



## Ryujin

"Why doesn't anyone want our entry level job that requires 5 years of experience? WAAHHHH!"


Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Whenever it comes to expectations, I remember some words a boss of mine said some 20 years ago at my yearly performance review.
> 
> "Liane, I received _nothing _but rave reviews of your performance at [customer]. Truly_ exceptional_ reviews and accolades. Really exceeding expectations. But I _expected_ you to exceed my expectations, so really you only _met_ my expectations. And since I expected you to exceed my expectations but you only met my expectations, technically you did not meet my expectations."
> 
> And then later that week he bought a second Mercedes with all the money he didn't give out in raises and bonuses.



I worked for a computer manufacturing company that went bankrupt. (Well two, but the second went bankrupt _after_ I left.) The president and owner of the company managed to get himself listed as the first secured creditor by registering the $2M of personal money that he put in. When everything went to hell he got everything. The bank got most of theirs. The people who sold him the equipment and product got nothing. most of the employees got nothing. He still had his shiny new BMW, that he had bought just weeks before.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ryujin said:


> "Why doesn't anyone want our entry level job that requires 5 years of experience? WAAHHHH!"
> 
> I worked for a computer manufacturing company that went bankrupt. (Well two, but the second went bankrupt _after_ I left.) The president and owner of the company managed to get himself listed as the first secured creditor by registering the $2M of personal money that he put in. When everything went to hell he got everything. The bank got most of theirs. The people who sold him the equipment and product got nothing. most of the employees got nothing. He still had his shiny new BMW, that he had bought just weeks before.



Have you considered a novel legal strategy dating back hundreds of years, originating in France?


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Have you considered a novel legal strategy dating back hundreds of years, originating in France?



Been reading the _violent solutions to peaceful problems_ thread lately?


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> Have you considered a novel legal strategy dating back hundreds of years, originating in France?



Certainly could have been considered by those who got screwed over. Anyone that I could get ahold of, after the fact, got their money. The Labour Board guy who caught my case was an absolute pitbull who had been trying to nail the owner for _tears_, for shady practices. I made out better than most because the owner was personally paying me what I was owed, in installments. I hand-wrote receipts for him that he ultimately lost. My friendly neighbourhood attack dog said if he couldn't substantiate it then he still owed it, and that it wasn't up to me to corroborate what he said. I ultimately received a little less than double what I was owed.

Got the same case worker when I was later laid off by another company, in what was considered a constructive dismissal. (They closed the Eastern Canada branch and sold the building, but said that there would be a recall?) He was just as good to me then, as the previous time, and i got thousands that I was owed.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I'm not saying we need to immediately behead the rich. What I'm saying is, we need to install a massive, publicly-available guillotine within sight of Congress and the White House, with a well-paid public sector headsman position permanently hired, with a little ceremony every week where the guillotine is well-oiled amid great fanfare and a fruit or vegetable appropriate to the season chopped in half to demonstrate the guillotine's effectiveness.

It's sort of like, just a reminder.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I'm not saying we need to immediate behead the rich.



That is what _I'm _saying tho.



Liane the Wayfarer said:


> What I'm saying is, we need to install a massive, publicly-available guillotine within sight of Congress and the White House, with a well-paid public sector headsman position permanently hired, with a little ceremony every week where the guillotine is well-oiled amid great fanfare and a fruit or vegetable appropriate to the season chopped in half to demonstrate the guillotine's effectiveness.



I will sadly settle for this.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Based on pages and pages and pages of back and forth posts, I know you two think you can change each other's minds.

Based on pages and pages and pages of back and forth posts, I don't think you're going to change each other's minds.


----------



## eyeheartawk

BookTenTiger said:


> Based on pages and pages and pages of back and forth posts, I know you two think you can change each other's minds.
> 
> Based on pages and pages and pages of back and forth posts, I don't think you're going to change each other's minds.


----------



## Parmandur

BookTenTiger said:


> Based on pages and pages and pages of back and forth posts, I know you two think you can change each other's minds.
> 
> Based on pages and pages and pages of back and forth posts, I don't think you're going to change each other's minds.



It's about the journey, not the destination.


----------



## Ryujin

Parmandur said:


> It's about the journey, not the destination.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


>



Might be a short journey.


----------



## Deset Gled

You know what's on my nerves about pizza right now?  Facebook.  Facebook is ruining pizza for me.

I just had to have a conversation with my spouse about where to order pizza from tonight.  Not based on who has the best tasting pizza, not based on who is closest or cheapest.  No.  This was about the fact that the owner of the best local pizzeria decided to go on a rant on the company Facebook page.  For the purpose of following board rules, lets just say it was about a political stance that we mostly disagree with.  So now we have to ask the hard questions: Does this mean we don't order pizza from there?  For how long?  Does the fact that they took it down matter?  Do we now need to check Facebook pages from the other local pizza joints to make sure they're not jerks or supporting other politics we don't like?

Gosh darn Facebook.


----------



## billd91

Deset Gled said:


> You know what's on my nerves about pizza right now?  Facebook.  Facebook is ruining pizza for me.
> 
> I just had to have a conversation with my spouse about where to order pizza from tonight.  Not based on who has the best tasting pizza, not based on who is closest or cheapest.  No.  This was about the fact that the owner of the best local pizzeria decided to go on a rant on the company Facebook page.  For the purpose of following board rules, lets just say it was about a political stance that we mostly disagree with.  So now we have to ask the hard questions: Does this mean we don't order pizza from there?  For how long?  Does the fact that they took it down matter?  Do we now need to check Facebook pages from the other local pizza joints to make sure they're not jerks or supporting other politics we don't like?
> 
> Gosh darn Facebook.



Consider it having done you a favor of outing someone you might not want to support. Before the days of social media, you pretty much had to be present to witness something like that and, oddly enough, people tend to be better behaved in a public setting than on their social media pages.


----------



## CleverNickName

Deset Gled said:


> You know what's on my nerves about pizza right now?  Facebook.  Facebook is ruining pizza for me.
> 
> I just had to have a conversation with my spouse about where to order pizza from tonight.  Not based on who has the best tasting pizza, not based on who is closest or cheapest.  No.  This was about the fact that the owner of the best local pizzeria decided to go on a rant on the company Facebook page.  For the purpose of following board rules, lets just say it was about a political stance that we mostly disagree with.  So now we have to ask the hard questions: Does this mean we don't order pizza from there?  For how long?  Does the fact that they took it down matter?  Do we now need to check Facebook pages from the other local pizza joints to make sure they're not jerks or supporting other politics we don't like?
> 
> Gosh darn Facebook.



You're better off ordering from a new place anyway.  In my experience, political opinions can indeed ruin the taste of food, even your favorites.   Once I learned the truth about Chick-Fil-A's secret ingredient*, I can't taste anything else.  Heck, it's so off-putting that get a bad taste in my mouth just walking by their establishment.

*not really a secret anymore


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> You're better off ordering from a new place anyway.  In my experience, political opinions can indeed ruin the taste of food, even your favorites.   Once I learned the truth about Chick-Fil-A's secret ingredient*, I can't taste anything else.  Heck, it's so off-putting that get a bad taste in my mouth just walking by their establishment.
> 
> *not really a secret anymore



The problem is where to draw the line. 

I mean, all giant corporations are going to be evil. Is Target, really _less _evil than Wal-Mart? 

You've ultimately gotta draw the line somewhere. That, or just throw up your hands, make peace that there is really no ethical consumption anyway and enjoy your Slurpee while the world burns.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> You're better off ordering from a new place anyway.  In my experience, political opinions can indeed ruin the taste of food, even your favorites.   Once I learned the truth about Chick-Fil-A's secret ingredient*, I can't taste anything else.  Heck, it's so off-putting that get a bad taste in my mouth just walking by their establishment.
> 
> *not really a secret anymore



Chick-Fil-A sucks anyways.


----------



## TwoSix

payn said:


> Chick-Fil-A sucks anyways.



The drive-thru lines that extend well out of the parking lot even in my very blue state suggest many people do not share that opinion.


----------



## billd91

eyeheartawk said:


> The problem is where to draw the line.
> 
> I mean, all giant corporations are going to be evil. Is Target, really _less _evil than Wal-Mart?
> 
> You've ultimately gotta draw the line somewhere. That, or just throw up your hands, make peace that there is really no ethical consumption anyway and enjoy your Slurpee while the world burns.



Sure, we draw lines at some point. There's a pretty big gulf between recognizing that there's no perfectly ethical existence and fully embracing nihilism.


----------



## TwoSix

billd91 said:


> Sure, we draw lines at some point. There's a pretty big gulf between recognizing that there's no perfectly ethical existence and fully embracing nihilism.



"Come join us on Nihilism Beach!  We have existential dread, and COOKIES!"


----------



## J.Quondam

I'm just still trying to figure out how I ought to feel when it turns out that every guillotine company is a subsidiary of McEvilMegacorp.


----------



## Parmandur

CleverNickName said:


> You're better off ordering from a new place anyway.  In my experience, political opinions can indeed ruin the taste of food, even your favorites.   Once I learned the truth about Chick-Fil-A's secret ingredient*, I can't taste anything else.  Heck, it's so off-putting that get a bad taste in my mouth just walking by their establishment.
> 
> *not really a secret anymore



Wait, what's the secret ingredient to the mediocre chicken?


----------



## eyeheartawk

billd91 said:


> Sure, we draw lines at some point. There's a pretty big gulf between recognizing that there's no perfectly ethical existence and fully embracing nihilism.


----------



## payn

TwoSix said:


> The drive-thru lines that extend well out of the parking lot even in my very blue state suggest many people do not share that opinion.



There is no accounting for taste.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> You know what's on my nerves about pizza right now?  Facebook.  Facebook is ruining pizza for me.
> 
> I just had to have a conversation with my spouse about where to order pizza from tonight.  Not based on who has the best tasting pizza, not based on who is closest or cheapest.  No.  This was about the fact that the owner of the best local pizzeria decided to go on a rant on the company Facebook page.  For the purpose of following board rules, lets just say it was about a political stance that we mostly disagree with.  So now we have to ask the hard questions: Does this mean we don't order pizza from there?  For how long?  Does the fact that they took it down matter?  Do we now need to check Facebook pages from the other local pizza joints to make sure they're not jerks or supporting other politics we don't like?
> 
> Gosh darn Facebook.



If someone posts their controversial personal views on  company page, then they have to live with the potential consequences. If they refuse to put pineapple on pizza then you're free to vote with your feet.


----------



## Deset Gled

billd91 said:


> Sure, we draw lines at some point. There's a pretty big gulf between recognizing that there's no perfectly ethical existence and fully embracing nihilism.




The large gray area is actually the part that annoys me the most.  In the case I'm currently dealing with, it's not a life or death situation.  To come out it with, it was a rant about the hiring shortage and struggling with maintaining employment levels at the pizzeria that said some not nice things about the proletariat at large.  He definitely said some things I (we) don't agree with, but it wasn't outright bigotry or an intensely polarizing topic.  That's why my spouse and I got into a discussion about it.  Is it right to support a local business like this if we think they may not be supporting their employees?  Have we seen anything else that should a red flag?  They have other posts that seem very supportive of their employees, so is this a one-off rant from someone who had a bad day, or the truth breaking through a well kept facade?  What level of research do I need to do to feel good about eating there?

My real complaint is that I care, but I don't want to care.  These are great high level discussions, but I also just want to eat my freakin dinner without having a moral quandary, philosophical discussion, and 30 minutes of research.


----------



## Retreater

Re: politicized pizzas
In the days before social media we had a time- honored pizzeria in our town ... actually the first pizza place in my town. It was so old my dad delivered pizzas for them in the late 1960s. (One time my dad delivered a pizza to Eric Burdon of The Animals who gave him a $20 tip - but that's off topic in this already off topic thread.)
Anyways, new management came and the pizza place got very political. Since we're not supposed to discuss politics on this board, I'll just say that the owner thought all pizzas should be sausage, and if you wanted pepperoni on your pizza you were an idiot. 
So he put that on the marquee, yard signs, menus, and take out menus. He would pass out pamphlets telling you that sausage was the only way. I kid you not, he would come in while you were having a meal, sit at your table and tell you about why sausage was the best topping on pizzas. It was clear he was a member of the ... sausage party (maybe I didn't think this analogy all the way through before I started).
But the point is, when you're running a business for the public, doing things that might alienate customers is a very bad business move. About two years later, this pizza place that had been around since the early 1960s had been replaced by a Dunkin' Donuts.


----------



## CleverNickName

Parmandur said:


> Wait, what's the secret ingredient to the mediocre chicken?



Pickle juice and hatred.


----------



## Deset Gled

Ryujin said:


> If someone posts their controversial personal views on  company page, then they have to live with the potential consequences. If they refuse to put pineapple on pizza then you're free to vote with your feet.




The flipside of this is: when does it become prejudicial?  Sure, it's good to stop eating somewhere because they don't let black people in.  But its also bad to stop eating somewhere because I don't agree with the religion of the owners.  What happens when we disagree on Prop 394 or support a different candidate for Comptroller?  Before, it was easy to be ignorant.  I blame Facebook culture for making everything a Big Deal and a binary decision.  Now I'm aware of where everyone stands on everything, and I frankly would be happier not knowing sometimes.


----------



## Parmandur

Deset Gled said:


> The flipside of this is: when does it become prejudicial?  Sure, it's good to stop eating somewhere because they don't let black people in.  But its also bad to stop eating somewhere because I don't agree with the religion of the owners.  What happens when we disagree on Prop 394 or support a different candidate for Comptroller?  Before, it was easy to be ignorant.  I blame Facebook culture for making everything a Big Deal and a binary decision.  Now I'm aware of where everyone stands on everything, and I frankly would be happier not knowing sometimes.



I think it's pretty safe to assume that the folks in charge, or at least founded, Popeyes and Church's Chicken are as teligous as the ChikFilA people, possibly moreover for not making it anyone else's business.


----------



## Retreater

Parmandur said:


> Church's Chicken



With that name, how are they NOT the religious chicken?


----------



## Deset Gled

Parmandur said:


> I think it's pretty safe to assume that the folks in charge, or at least founded, Popeyes and Church's Chicken are as teligous as the ChikFilA people, possibly moreover for not making it anyone else's business.




Well, it is the "making it anyone else's business" that is the bigger problem, right?  Lots of folks manage to have a religion and not fund anti-LGBTQ hate groups.  There's probably also a lesson in here somewhere about separating business/work and personal beliefs.


----------



## Parmandur

Retreater said:


> With that name, how are they NOT the religious chicken?



Pretty sure it was just someone's surname


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> The flipside of this is: when does it become prejudicial?  Sure, it's good to stop eating somewhere because they don't let black people in.  But its also bad to stop eating somewhere because I don't agree with the religion of the owners.  What happens when we disagree on Prop 394 or support a different candidate for Comptroller?  Before, it was easy to be ignorant.  I blame Facebook culture for making everything a Big Deal and a binary decision.  Now I'm aware of where everyone stands on everything, and I frankly would be happier not knowing sometimes.



I can totally understand that and both sympathize and empathize, as I've come to know far more about people whose work I admired, than allows me to enjoy it now. Thing is that's not on you. It's on them. If people are comfortable with sharing their personal opinions, in their business lives, then they also have to be comfortable with people walking away from their business for any reason be it large, or small. Your only decision is the breaking point and you should make that wherever it feels comfortable. Sometimes that's not a bright line.


----------



## billd91

Deset Gled said:


> The flipside of this is: when does it become prejudicial?  Sure, it's good to stop eating somewhere because they don't let black people in.  But its also bad to stop eating somewhere because I don't agree with the religion of the owners.  What happens when we disagree on Prop 394 or support a different candidate for Comptroller?  Before, it was easy to be ignorant.  I blame Facebook culture for making everything a Big Deal and a binary decision.  Now I'm aware of where everyone stands on everything, and I frankly would be happier not knowing sometimes.



Was it any different when they put election signs out in front of the business? People have been doing that sort of thing for decades.

But, honestly, who cares if it becomes prejudicial on your part? That's for *you* to decide. If you don't care whether or not the business supports the local school budget referendum, do business with them. If a proposition is important to you and you know a particular business supports the other side, go ahead and cross them off your "Do Business With" list. We all have our standards, they all differ, nobody runs an audit.


----------



## trappedslider

You are not compelled to form any opinion about this matter before you, nor to disturb your peace of mind at all. Things in themselves have no power to extort a verdict from you – Marcus Aurelius

So, Marcus Aurelius says it's okay to actually not care about some things and live your life.


----------



## Asisreo

Parmandur said:


> Wait, what's the secret ingredient to the mediocre chicken?



As opposed to other restraunts that try to imitate the chicken sandwhich? It would be the somewhat fruitful attempt to keep the raw chicken from intermingling with everything you immediately put in your mouth.

As opposed to your home-cooking? You probably season your chicken while they mix the egg wash with the tears of the workers harvested before they were strapped into the "My Pleasure" chair and forced to watch a marathon of bible-man until they were able to turn wine into subpar, overly sugared lemonade.

I mean, my goodness! Have you actually seen the sugar contents of their lemonade? It has 3-4 days worth of my recommended sugar intake in one cup. And that isn't an exaggeration!


----------



## South by Southwest

Sayre's Law: _"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake."_


----------



## billd91

Pretty rich complaining about people's behavior when you exhibit the same sort of behavior in every thread...


----------



## payn

I think this thread topic is dumb, so everyone should just stop posting instead of me just moving on to other threads.


----------



## RealAlHazred

You can't take Chick-fil-a from me! The hate makes the chicken taste so much better! It's been the only acceptable chicken place since the Coon Chicken Inn closed down!

/s

(P.S. I am not linking to either chain. Chick-fil-a you guys should know, and the other one is not showing up in my search history. No, not gonna do it! You can do your own GIS!)


----------



## Parmandur

Amusingly, Church's Chicken (founded by George W. Church, Sr.) has had to clarify for international markets that they are not religiys, and in fact are Koshee and Halal compliant.


----------



## payn

I'll stick with Raising Cane's. 

I am kinda curious about Herbie Butcher's Fried Chicken. (Its vegetarian and just a local location)


----------



## trappedslider

nvm


----------



## billd91

If all you’re posting is your hate-watching a show, time to ignore.


----------



## Deset Gled

Is there a name for a three prong version of Poe's law where you can't tell if the person posting is serious, joking, or trolling?


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> Is there a name for a three prong version of Poe's law where you can't tell if the person posting is serious, joking, or trolling?



The joking/trolling are considered a single aspect. Both are looking for a reaction; just a different one.

_EDIT_ - We had rather lengthy discussions about Poe's Law on the Zombie Orpheus Discord channel, when "Dark Dungeons" was released


----------



## eyeheartawk

Deset Gled said:


> Is there a name for a three prong version of Poe's law where you can't tell if the person posting is serious, joking, or trolling?



That means the banter is working as designed.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Is there a name for a three prong version of Poe's law where you can't tell if the person posting is serious, joking, or trolling?




The true difficulty is that, for the most part, the difference between trolling, joking, and serious is usually just intent.

The exact same sentence can be any one of the those three things. 

I would go even further, and say that even once you differentiate between "serious" and "not serious," you still have the further complication (pace @Ryujin ) of the difference between a joke and a troll. Which ... I mean, other than saying that a troll is done with malicious intent, and a joke isn't, what have you got?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Eh, re-adopting the "the three strikes and you're out" policy. 

Less angering of the blood.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Eh, re-adopting the "the three strikes and you're out" policy.
> 
> Less angering of the blood.



Yeah, I had to dip out of that thread a while ago.  My rule is once people start talking more about the argument itself than the topic of the thread, I'm late for the door.

I guess some people honestly believe that if they can't win the argument, they should start arguing about the argument itself.

"No, a six-part Toulmin argument is the _superior_ way to argue!  I find the Rogerian binary a bit too restrictive and frankly, it's just too tame for how deeply offended your argument has made me!  And I swear to Pelor, the next person who comes in here with a weak _narrative argument_ is going to get an earfull!"


----------



## Cadence

Wow did some folks put on their cranky pants this morning!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Wow did some folks put on their cranky pants this morning!



Look, I'm old. The cranky pants are just the regular pants, hitched way up under my armpits.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Wow did some folks put on their cranky pants this morning!




There are other types of pants?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

You ever feel like ENWorld is a WWE Wrestlmania event?


....and you're sitting there. And you think everything is copacetic. And then ....


_GOOD GOD! Is that ..... THE WARLORD'S MUSIC?????!!!!????? _


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> View attachment 157186





To be honest, I don't have a dog in the "disassociated mechanics" fight. 

...now, I may have some opinions about the system mattering, and to what degree, but I know better.


----------



## Cadence

I kind of want to apply the various ttrpg game theories and classifications to how people post on threads.

"Supposing the person you're arguing with a gamist-poster, what does that mean?"


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You ever feel like ENWorld is a WWE Wrestlmania event?
> 
> 
> ....and you're sitting there. And you think everything is copacetic. And then ....
> 
> 
> _GOOD GOD! Is that ..... THE WARLORD'S MUSIC?????!!!!????? _


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I kind of want to apply the various ttrpg game theories and classifications to how people post on threads.




I kinda do too, but I also kinda don't want to get moderated.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg




----------



## South by Southwest

You know, I never learned to read any Hanzi until I joined EN World. A fellah can learn some crazy things 'round here...


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There are other types of pants?



Fancy pants are the best kind


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> Fancy pants are the best kind


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Yeah, I had to dip out of that thread a while ago.  My rule is once people start talking more about the argument itself than the topic of the thread, I'm late for the door.
> 
> I guess some people honestly believe that if they can't win the argument, they should start arguing about the argument itself.
> 
> "No, a six-part Toulmin argument is the _superior_ way to argue!  I find the Rogerian binary a bit too restrictive and frankly, it's just too tame for how deeply offended your argument has made me!  And I swear to Pelor, the next person who comes in here with a weak _narrative argument_ is going to get an earfull!"


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


>



Are you arguing that we should argue about all the arguing about arguments about the original topic?


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Are you arguing that we should argue about all the arguing about arguments about the original topic?



I'm saying that an argument is not merely the gainsaying of what the other person puts forth.


----------



## dragoner

Rules changes arguments read like an ATHF episode ...


----------



## billd91

Ryujin said:


> I'm saying that an argument is not merely the gainsaying of what the other person puts forth.



Yes, it is.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Yes, it is.



No it isn't.


----------



## South by Southwest

I will always prefer Monty Python jokes over threads that devolve into quarrels about quarrels. I mean, both are funny, but the Monty Python guys are pros.


----------



## South by Southwest

Eh...just pretend I deleted this.


----------



## Cadence

South by Southwest said:


> Eh...just pretend I deleted this.



And I was just queuing up the apropos Blues Brothers clip ...


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## Asisreo

Ryujin said:


> No it isn't.



Guys, you're arguing wrong...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> No it isn't.



Yes, it...!

I'm sorry, did you want to have the full argument, or were you thinking of taking a course? It's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Asisreo said:


> Guys, you're arguing wrong...


----------



## payn




----------



## Cadence

Dear mod person.  Thank you.  You just saved me a half hour of my life typing and retyping to say something the other side wouldn't care about, that I probably would have decided I shouldn't post anyway because it would have been modded.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


>


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Dear mod person.  Thank you.  You just saved me a half hour of my life typing and retyping to say something the other side wouldn't care about, that I probably would have decided I shouldn't post anyway because it would have been modded.



Not surprised, but yeah that thread descended into a sh@#show.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Not surprised, but yeah that thread descended into a sh@#show.




There is a certain inevitability to things.


Look, if you point to a pile of the absolute worst dog poo, you're going to get two reactions.

First, you will get people falling over each other to explain just how terrible that dog poo is. Often with escalating rhetoric that, no, you don't really understand, the dog poo is terrible!

Second, you'll get the inevitable .... "Well, but AKSHUALLY ... maybe the worst dog poo ever isn't that bad? Maybe ... the real villains are the people who don't like that dog poo, mmmkay?"

And then?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is a certain inevitability to things.
> 
> 
> Look, if you point to a pile of the absolute worst dog poo, you're going to get two reactions.
> 
> First, you will get people falling over each other to explain just how terrible that dog poo is. Often with escalating rhetoric that, no, you don't really understand, the dog poo is terrible!
> 
> Second, you'll get the inevitable .... "Well, but AKSHUALLY ... maybe the worst dog poo ever isn't that bad? Maybe ... the real villains are the people who don't like that dog poo, mmmkay?"
> 
> And then?



Way too many #2s stinking up the entire internets lately.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Somebody needs to post in this thread a long thoughtful response, so I can quote it sentence by sentence with my well thought out and reasoned arguments.

In fact, they are so well written, persuasive and effective that I have to keep doing it *FOREVER *in *EVERY *thread I post in.

I am smart and cool.


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> Somebody needs to post in this thread a long thoughtful response, so I can quote it sentence by sentence with my well thought out and reasoned arguments.
> 
> In fact, they are so well written, persuasive and effective that I have to keep doing it *FOREVER *in *EVERY *thread I post in.
> 
> I am smart and cool.




Do you want it to be about pineapple pizza, tuna pizza, or good pizza?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Do you want it to be about pineapple pizza, tuna pizza, or good pizza?



If we are talking massive quote blocks with sentence by sentence responses; it cant be anything but NZ pizza.


----------



## Deset Gled

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There is a certain inevitability to things.
> 
> 
> Look, if you point to a pile of the absolute worst dog poo, you're going to get two reactions.
> 
> First, you will get people falling over each other to explain just how terrible that dog poo is. Often with escalating rhetoric that, no, you don't really understand, the dog poo is terrible!
> 
> Second, you'll get the inevitable .... "Well, but AKSHUALLY ... maybe the worst dog poo ever isn't that bad? Maybe ... the real villains are the people who don't like that dog poo, mmmkay?"
> 
> And then?




I refuse to accept that this is inevitable.  This message board has managed to have many nuanced discussions over the years.  We've covered touchy subjects ranging from the Satanic Panic to the influences of Mormonism in Dragonlance to FATAL.  Some threads even manage it without any moderation.  Occasionally, we've even had threads about problematic actors in the profession and prejudice in gaming and that were relatively intelligent and fruitful discussions.

We can do better.  Sometimes we don't.  But it's possible.  There are more than two reactions.

At this time, I would also like to acknowledge the hypocrisy in my hopefulness in this post compared to my whining last Friday that even ordering a pizza without politics was too hard.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Good. 

I need a palate cleanser. 

Let's talk about FATAL instead. 

Is Bryon Hall a genius or a once in a lifetime visionary? 

Discuss.


----------



## Mannahnin

TWERPS: Great game, or _Greatest _game?


----------



## trappedslider

I had to redo this video three times


----------



## Deset Gled

eyeheartawk said:


> Good.
> 
> I need a palate cleanser.
> 
> Let's talk about FATAL instead.
> 
> Is Bryon Hall a genius or a once in a lifetime visionary?
> 
> Discuss.




FATAL is the RPG equivalent of those safety lectures where they show you the safety glasses with a projectile stuck in them, or photographs of car wrecks from drunk drivers.  On the one hand, fasinating to look at.  OTOH, a clear message that you should not re-create that situation.


----------



## Gradine

Why do they always lock threads when I'm sleeping? Very rude.

Somebody brought up the "first they came for..." poem in the thread about how willing we should be to tolerate Nazis, and I have to wonder just how many people realize that they are _already coming _for trans folx.

One can quibble about how long the line is between CPS vans to conversion therapy and trains to the gas camps, but it is undeniable that it is a _straight _line


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> Somebody needs to post in this thread a long thoughtful response, so I can quote it sentence by sentence with my well thought out and reasoned arguments.
> 
> In fact, they are so well written, persuasive and effective that I have to keep doing it *FOREVER *in *EVERY *thread I post in.
> 
> I am smart and cool.



"Right now, I'm devoting a great deal of time and study to that problem, and I expect to issue a position paper on that. A position that is at once simple, yet complex. Flexible, and above all else, fair... to every American." - Les Nessman.


----------



## South by Southwest

So between neo-Nazis and Chinese spammers I guess I prefer to be harangued by the Chinese spammers: they have more honor.


----------



## RealAlHazred

In looking at the copious evidence of neo-Nazi sympathies of that guy mentioned upthread, I feel sad that I instantly recognized that the "Hitler youth" shirts the ladies were wearing in the one photo were fake. That photo is a still from a 1958 movie. But I could recognize that the shirts were fake because there used to be American Bund-funded neo-Nazi "youth summer camps" in Pennsylvania, and here and there you can still find the shirts in garage sales (... okay, you could still find them in the 80s, when I remember seeing them there; I have garage-sale-shopped since then, I guess..,) And I know about that because I am a first-generation American of German descent, who has lived his entire life within 50 miles of NYC. And it's goddamn not happening again here, or anywhere else. Goddamn it. We fought a f*cking WAR to MAKE THAT POINT.

I'm just so tired...


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> In looking at the copious evidence of neo-Nazi sympathies of that guy mentioned upthread, I feel sad that I instantly recognized that the "Hitler youth" shirts the ladies were wearing in the one photo were fake. That photo is a still from a 1958 movie. But I could recognize that the shirts were fake because there used to be American Bund-funded neo-Nazi "youth summer camps" in Pennsylvania, and here and there you can still find the shirts in garage sales (... okay, you could still find them in the 80s, when I remember seeing them there; I have garage-sale-shopped since then, I guess..,) And I know about that because I am a first-generation American of German descent, who has lived his entire life within 50 miles of NYC. And it's goddamn not happening again here, or anywhere else. Goddamn it. We fought a f*cking WAR to MAKE THAT POINT.
> 
> I'm just so tired...



We fought a war and WON! This should have been over 80ish years ago. Unfortunately, ideas and political ideologies are the hardest things on Earth to kill.


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> We fought a war and WON! This should have been over 80ish years ago. Unfortunately, ideas and political ideologies are the hardest things on Earth to kill.



You dont win ideologies, you just force them to submit. Like the the last one that was won 160 some years ago.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> You dont win ideologies, you just force them to submit. Like the the last one that was won 160 some years ago.




The one that resurfaced a bit over a decade after that 160 some years ago, and held on tenaciously for almost a century, and then a bit more covertly for decades, and is still killing people?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

payn said:


> You dont win ideologies, you just force them to submit. Like the the last one that was won 160 some years ago.



Eh, I don't think that one was beaten by a long shot. The Confederacy was squashed, but slavery (and institutional racism) was far from over after the Civil War.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> The one resurfaced a bit over a decade after that 160 some years ago, and held on tenaciously for almost a century, and then a bit more covertly for decades, and is still killing people?



Sadly, yeap.


----------



## Hussar

Cadence said:


> Dear mod person. Thank you. You just saved me a half hour of my life typing and retyping to say something the other side wouldn't care about, that I probably would have decided I shouldn't post anyway because it would have been modded.




Oh I have SO been there. And probably on either side too.


----------



## eyeheartawk

What happens when I roll up with the lads and want to play some FATAL


----------



## Cadence

"Your pedantry and formalism is getting in the way of the pedantry I want to pursue!"


----------



## Cadence

X: "So, why don't you like pineapple pizza"

Y: "It's not that I don't like it, it's just that it's not on the menu here. Although I have eaten at places that have it on the menu.  Menus are very important to the feel of restaurants."

X: "Cool, so it's just a menu thing to you and you're good either way."

Y: "Although I don't understand why there is a need to muddy up the menu with pineapple.  There is already so limited space give to non-topping things."

X: "So it's not just a menu thing?"

<Go back to step two>


----------



## payn

I dont know why people waste their time posting _in_ the thread, when you are provided so much spacious room in the _title_ of the thread?


----------



## TwoSix

payn said:


> I dont know why people waste their time posting _in_ the thread, when you are provided so much spacious room in the _title_ of the thread?



New thread: My GM is making us play as Deadpool and Spider-Man in the Hundred Acre Wood and he's using FATAL mixed with D&D and all the other PCs have to set the woods on fire and what class should Tigger be?


----------



## Cadence

TwoSix said:


> New thread: My GM is making us play as Deadpool and Spider-Man in the Hundred Acre Wood and he's using FATAL mixed with D&D and all the other PCs have to set the woods on fire and what class should Tigger be?




I never knew it before, but now I want to see the 100-acre wood crew written up for 5e...


----------



## billd91

I prefer "I am not your Screen Monkey"


----------



## eyeheartawk

TwoSix said:


> New thread: My GM is making us play as Deadpool and Spider-Man in the Hundred Acre Wood and he's using FATAL mixed with D&D and all the other PCs have to set the woods on fire and what class should Tigger be?



That is irrelevant until you calculate Tigger's anal circumference.


----------



## payn

I missed the memo on FATAL Thursday.


----------



## TwoSix

eyeheartawk said:


> That is irrelevant until you calculate Tigger's anal circumference.



1d12 cm, 12s explode.


----------



## RealAlHazred

TwoSix said:


> what class should Tigger be?



Tigger is a tabaxi bard. He's always a bard, singing his silly songs and trying his best to lift everybody's spirits.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Tigger is a tabaxi bard. He's always a bard, singing his silly songs and trying his best to lift everybody's spirits.



What if this game is an RPG from the 90s? We need a way to make Tigger grim and edgy. Like a Tim Bradstreet VtM painting but Tigger.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> What if this game is an RPG from the 90s? We need a way to make Tigger grim and edgy. Like a Tim Bradstreet VtM painting but Tigger.



Like this?


----------



## RealAlHazred

eyeheartawk said:


> What if this game is an RPG from the 90s? We need a way to make Tigger grim and edgy. Like a Tim Bradstreet VtM painting but Tigger.



In the 90s, Tabaxi from the *Fiend Folio* _were_ edgy.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> s Like this?



I see you went in a 90s geo-cities direction. 

Needs more 'tude.


----------



## CleverNickName

"Oh cool, a thread about a Narnia-themed campaign!"
(two minutes later)
"Oh no."


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> "Oh cool, a thread about a Narnia-themed campaign!"
> (two minutes later)
> "Oh no."



Should I swap my popcorn for Turkish Delight?


----------



## billd91

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> In the 90s, Tabaxi from the *Fiend Folio* _were_ edgy.



I think I'd go less edgy and more *pointy*.


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> In the 90s, Tabaxi from the *Fiend Folio* _were_ edgy.



Today? Not so much.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Supposing FATAL is gamist, what does that mean?​


----------



## South by Southwest

*EN World Threads

     vs.

Buffalo-style Chicken Wings



*

Which is spicier? _A: Depends on who's making the wings._


----------



## R_J_K75

South by Southwest said:


> Depends on who's making the wings.



Wings in that picture look pretty good, bleu cheese especially.

I almost choked to death making wing sauce a few years back. It was a concoction of butter, Franks hot sauce, tobasco, sriracha, chili powder, red pepper flakes. paprika, garlic powder and onion powder. While I was cooking it, it atomized into the air and almost killed me. I shut the stove off, ran out of the house and ate them when the kitchen cleared out and I could breathe again. Don't get me wrong they were hot but ironically not so hot I couldn't eat them. 

Ever in Buffalo and want great wings, forget Anchor Bar, forget Duffs, Nine-Eleven Tavern has the best wings hands down. It's a dive bar, they have weird hours, on a busy night there's a 1-2 hour wait for food and bathroom looks terrifyingly like Jason Voorhees' hovel, but it's well worth it. 

The Nine-Eleven Tavern
11 Bloomfield Ave, Buffalo, NY 14220
 (716) 825-9939


----------



## Hussar

I SO MISS BUFFALO WINGS!!!!!  You'd think in a country where they have literal chicken wing restaurants you'd be able to get a plate of hot wings and a pitcher of beer.  But noooooo.  You have to have your chicken wing on a skewer for about 2 bucks a pop and you can only have it with salt on the wings.  

Sometimes I really hate this country.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Hussar said:


> I SO MISS BUFFALO WINGS!!!!! You'd think in a country where they have literal chicken wing restaurants you'd be able to get a plate of hot wings and a pitcher of beer. But noooooo. You have to have your chicken wing on a skewer for about 2 bucks a pop and you can only have it with salt on the wings.
> 
> Sometimes I really hate this country.



You know, you can solve this problem with a bottle of hot sauce and some melted butter.


----------



## Gradine

Wings are overrated. Give me jalapeno poppers any day of the week and twice on Sunday


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Wings are overrated. Give me jalapeno poppers any day of the week and twice on Sunday



Over a grill maybe, the deep fried ones are nasty.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> Over a grill maybe, the deep fried ones are nasty.



Only if they're cooked in dirty oil, friend


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Only if they're cooked in dirty oil, friend


----------



## Gradine

Like clockwork


----------



## R_J_K75

Hussar said:


> But noooooo. You have to have your chicken wing on a skewer for about 2 bucks a pop and you can only have it with salt on the wings.



I feel so bad for you.  I don't even know what you described is, sure arent chicken wings. 


eyeheartawk said:


> You know, you can solve this problem with a bottle of hot sauce and some melted butter.



People here swear by Franks RedHot and butter and their own blend of other spices.  Some, most are pretty underwhelming but a few spots are actually really unique while still being Buffalo Wings. One place which is now closed had great wings and no one could figure out what the one spice was that made them taste like they did.  Even people that worked there didnt know the recipe, but suspected it was nutmeg or cinnamon, or both. But yeah its really easy to make your own hot wing sauce. 


payn said:


> Over a grill maybe, the deep fried ones are nasty.



We've smoked them and they came out good but they take along time, never straight up grilled them though. I could see them sticking and getting mutilated if you arent careful.  


Gradine said:


> Only if they're cooked in dirty oil, friend



I either bake mine in the oven or my air fryer.  Except last time about 2 weeks ago I made some in the air fryer oven drunk I pulled out the rack just a bit to far and it tipped over just enough to dump them all over the floor. I was mad.  I learned my lesson last time I deep fried wings in my dutch oven, again drunk, came out great, but I woke up the next morning covered in tiny grease splatter burns.  Never cook anything in grease without a shirt on.


----------



## payn

R_J_K75 said:


> We've smoked them_ (poppers)_ and they came out good but they take along time, never straight up grilled them though. I could see them sticking and getting mutilated if you arent careful.



I've used some cedar planks and/or top rack in a grill. Sticking and burning is a real struggle. 


R_J_K75 said:


> I either bake mine in the oven or my air fryer.  Except last time about 2 weeks ago I made some in the air fryer oven drunk I pulled out the rack just a bit to far and it tipped over just enough to dump them all over the floor. I was mad.  I learned my lesson last time I deep fried wings in my dutch oven, again drunk, came out great, but I woke up the next morning covered in tiny grease splatter burns.  Never cook anything in grease without a shirt on.



Hmm, Dutch oven and/or air fryer sounds like a winning idea.


----------



## Retreater

I envy those of you who get to cook with spices. Black pepper is too spicy for my wife, and green peppers have too much kick. 
All my hot sauces I drizzle on after the fact.


----------



## Parmandur

Retreater said:


> I envy those of you who get to cook with spices. Black pepper is too spicy for my wife, and green peppers have too much kick.
> All my hot sauces I drizzle on after the fact.



My wife uses Siracha at every opportunity.


----------



## Gradine

Parmandur said:


> My wife uses Siracha at every opportunity.



Sriracha and kimchi all day erry day


----------



## R_J_K75

payn said:


> I've used some cedar planks and/or top rack in a grill. Sticking and burning is a real struggle.



If you dont already, I'd suggest setting up your grill for a two-zone heat and cook on the area without the coals.  Then at the end give them a quick char.


----------



## R_J_K75

Parmandur said:


> My wife uses Siracha at every opportunity.



My mother used to get it from China Town in Toronto in the early 80s. There was no english on the bottle.  She put it in everything. "Eat your dinner", "Mom, I'm 7 and my face is melting". I never knew what it was until I seen Guy Fieri use some about 10-15 years ago. But AFAIK up until 10-15 years ago you couldnt get it in the supermarkets, at least not around here. I use it quite a bit too. Good in hamburgers.  Theres also Green Sriracha too.


----------



## Parmandur

R_J_K75 said:


> My mother used to get it from China Town in Toronto in the early 80s. There was no english on the bottle.  She put it in everything. "Eat your dinner", "Mom, I'm 7 and my face is melting". I never knew what it was until I seen Guy Fieri use some about 10-15 years ago. But AFAIK up until 10-15 years ago you couldnt get it in the supermarkets, at least not around here. I use it quite a bit too. Good in hamburgers.  Theres also Green Sriracha too.



It's a California product, so it's been pretty normal around here as far back as I can remember.


----------



## R_J_K75

Parmandur said:


> It's a California product, so it's been pretty normal around here as far back as I can remember.



As far as I know Huy Fong is the only legitimately recognized manufacturer.


----------



## Parmandur

R_J_K75 said:


> As far as I know Huy Fong is the only legitimately recognized manufacturer.



Yes, in Los Angeles. David Tran came to California and started a business as a young manafter his family was kicked out of Vietnam after the war.


----------



## R_J_K75

Parmandur said:


> Yes, in Los Angeles. David Tran came to California and started a business as a young manafter his family was kicked out of Vietnam after the war.



I looked it up and it said it was a product of Thailand, dont believe everything you read online.  I knew it!! The only writing we could read on the bottle as kids was Viet Nam, thats why we used to call it Viet Nam sauce.  I saw a show on TV few years back about him and the company, pretty interesting.


----------



## Hussar

eyeheartawk said:


> You know, you can solve this problem with a bottle of hot sauce and some melted butter.



Other than tabasco, you can't really even buy hot sauce.


----------



## Parmandur

Hussar said:


> Other than tabasco, you can't really even buy hot sauce.



...wut?


----------



## Hussar

Parmandur said:


> ...wut?



wut? wut?

I'm living in Japan.  They've never heard of Shiracha.  They wouldn't know habenero sauce from red paint.  Salsa is occasionally available, if you want to call it that.  Spicy sauces?  Good luck with that.  

Welcome to a country with like zero immigration.  To give you an idea, if you went into fifteen "Italian" restaurants here and tried to order linguini, you would have zero luck 15 times.  Italian pasta=spaghetti only.  No ravioli.  No lazagna.  No torellini.  It's spaghetti or nothing.  I haven't seen Greek food here, like ever.  I'd commit several crimes to get a good souvlaki or dolmades.  

I am happy living here, but, man the food blows.


----------



## Asisreo

Hussar said:


> wut? wut?
> 
> I'm living in Japan.  They've never heard of Shiracha.  They wouldn't know habenero sauce from red paint.  Salsa is occasionally available, if you want to call it that.  Spicy sauces?  Good luck with that.
> 
> Welcome to a country with like zero immigration.  To give you an idea, if you went into fifteen "Italian" restaurants here and tried to order linguini, you would have zero luck 15 times.  Italian pasta=spaghetti only.  No ravioli.  No lazagna.  No torellini.  It's spaghetti or nothing.  I haven't seen Greek food here, like ever.  I'd commit several crimes to get a good souvlaki or dolmades.
> 
> I am happy living here, but, man the food blows.



You've ruined my dreams of visiting Japan


----------



## dragoner

I have a decent number of Japanese follows because of my game, and they post pics of their food, it's interesting, though I think more about presentation, rather than variety.


----------



## Parmandur

Hussar said:


> wut? wut?
> 
> I'm living in Japan.  They've never heard of Shiracha.  They wouldn't know habenero sauce from red paint.  Salsa is occasionally available, if you want to call it that.  Spicy sauces?  Good luck with that.
> 
> Welcome to a country with like zero immigration.  To give you an idea, if you went into fifteen "Italian" restaurants here and tried to order linguini, you would have zero luck 15 times.  Italian pasta=spaghetti only.  No ravioli.  No lazagna.  No torellini.  It's spaghetti or nothing.  I haven't seen Greek food here, like ever.  I'd commit several crimes to get a good souvlaki or dolmades.
> 
> I am happy living here, but, man the food blows.



That's somewhat surprising.


----------



## South by Southwest

Hussar said:


> wut? wut?
> 
> I'm living in Japan.  They've never heard of Shiracha.  They wouldn't know habenero sauce from red paint.  Salsa is occasionally available, if you want to call it that.  Spicy sauces?  Good luck with that.
> 
> Welcome to a country with like zero immigration.  To give you an idea, if you went into fifteen "Italian" restaurants here and tried to order linguini, you would have zero luck 15 times.  Italian pasta=spaghetti only.  No ravioli.  No lazagna.  No torellini.  It's spaghetti or nothing.  I haven't seen Greek food here, like ever.  I'd commit several crimes to get a good souvlaki or dolmades.
> 
> I am happy living here, but, man the food blows.



Man, I'm sorry to read that. So you can't even find good Vietnamese food anywhere? Or Korean?


----------



## J.Quondam

"Dubious Morales" will be the name of a bad guy in my next spaghetti western-themed campaign.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> "Dubious Morales" will be the name of a bad guy in my next spaghetti western-themed campaign.



My website's name is "Morally Ambiguous" and I've had more than a few people refer to me by that


----------



## Hussar

dragoner said:


> I have a decent number of Japanese follows because of my game, and they post pics of their food, it's interesting, though I think more about presentation, rather than variety.



Oh, this is 100% true.  Presentation is SOOO important here.  I've had Japanese friends of mine turn up their noses at a roast beef dinner because it wasn't pretty enough.  Granted, once they tried it, they were over the moon.  But, their initial reaction was, "It's just all brown.  No colors!"  Presentation matters so much.  Heck, that's why you get everything on those bajillion little plates instead of on one big plate like we do in Canada (usually).



South by Southwest said:


> Man, I'm sorry to read that. So you can't even find good Vietnamese food anywhere? Or Korean?



Korean's pretty easy to find - well, sort of.  Japanese version of Korean barbecue anyway.  Surprisingly little actual Korean food - maybe some (really bad) kimchi in the supermarket.  Things like I used to eat when I lived in Korea though are pretty hard to find.  IN the bigger cities, you might get some vietnamese.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Oh man, you know you've made it big when someone creates an alt troll account with a username that mocks you! I feel so seen!


----------



## Retreater

BookTenTiger said:


> Oh man, you know you've made it big when someone creates an alt troll account with a username that mocks you! I feel so seen!



Yeah, I saw that earlier. Guess they got banned and deleted because I'm not seeing the posts anymore.


----------



## R_J_K75

Hussar said:


> Other than tabasco, you can't really even buy hot sauce.



Cant you buy some online or is it too expensive to have it shipped in?


----------



## trappedslider

This movie was hilarious and every scene was packed with either a shout-out or a callback.


----------



## payn

If we are doing movie reviews here now, G.I Joe Snake Eyes is bad.


----------



## Gradine

John Mulaney can die in a fire


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> If we are doing movie reviews here now, G.I Joe Snake Eyes is bad.



is water also wet?


----------



## Ryujin

When you know the SO of someone and don't feel comfortable talking about a situation.


----------



## South by Southwest

Okay, 24 hours ago I didn't know there _was_ something called "monkeypox."

I'm really sick of all the freak-outs.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## trappedslider

South by Southwest said:


> Okay, 24 hours ago I didn't know there _was_ something called "monkeypox."
> 
> I'm really sick of all the freak-outs.



I knew before the cool kids did.


----------



## J.Quondam

South by Southwest said:


> Okay, 24 hours ago I didn't know there _was_ something called "monkeypox."
> 
> I'm really sick of all the freak-outs.



TO be fair, we're not even halfway through 2022. No need to freak out... at least not until moneypox evolve into full-fledged King Kong pox.
Which I predict will happen by end of November. Because that's how the 2020s roll, apparently.


----------



## RealAlHazred




----------



## South by Southwest

J.Quondam said:


> ...Because that's how the 2020s roll, apparently.



Seems like, yeah.


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


>


----------



## Gradine

For those who would like a little optimism to brighten their day today


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


>



I refuse to be this world's Carl.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> I refuse to be this world's Carl.



Im trying to picture the sound of "Ryujin" from Rick in the way he says intensely Carl a thousand times.


----------



## Cadence

Another thread had me googling around and I stumbled across the below.  So as not to derail that one, is there a context where the name of the group that is available doesn't sound bad there?  (I assume it isn't related at all to the charity organization that comes up first in google).


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> Another thread had me googling around and I stumbled across the below.  So as not to derail that one, is there a context where the name of the group that is available doesn't sound bad there?  (I assume it isn't related at all to the charity organization that comes up first in google).
> 
> View attachment 248952



Ouch. Not exactly putting their best foot forward on that one.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

J.Quondam said:


> TO be fair, we're not even halfway through 2022. No need to freak out... at least not until moneypox evolve into full-fledged King Kong pox.



If it's _viral_, then it will likely morph into Donkey Kong pox. Don't get pixelated.


----------



## Deset Gled

Liane the Wayfarer said:


>




...  I liked some of the stuff from late seasons of Supernatural.


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> ...  I liked some of the stuff from late seasons of Supernatural.


----------



## Deset Gled

payn said:


>




OTOH, I gave up on Walking Dead years ago.


----------



## Cadence

Cadence said:


> Another thread had me googling around and I stumbled across the below.  So as not to derail that one, is there a context where the name of the group that is available doesn't sound bad there?  (I assume it isn't related at all to the charity organization that comes up first in google).
> 
> View attachment 248952



@sfwa deleted the tweet.  No comment on it yet.


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> OTOH, I gave up on Walking Dead years ago.



Pretty sure everyone did. Even Rick did, lol


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Pretty sure everyone did. Even Rick did, lol



According to the Walking Dead Wiki the following are the past, current, and upcoming shows in the "Walking Dead" universe.

The Walking Dead
Fear The Walking Dead
World Beyond
Tales of The Walking Dead
Untitled Daryl Spin-Off
Isle of the Dead
Untitled Villain Spin-Off
Untitled Comedy Spin-Off


Seems to me that they should have stopped at "Ignore the Walking Dead."


----------



## Cadence

Cadence said:


> @sfwa deleted the tweet.  No comment on it yet.



And they're calling them "helper elves" now (which seems fine).  No comment on the atrociousness of the previous name (which seems a bit hypocritical, present circumstances considered).


----------



## eyeheartawk

*Supposing gamist is D&D, what mean that does?*


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> *Supposing gamist is D&D, what mean that does?*



Ah, the old switcheroo!


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Ah, the old switcheroo!



I believe you mean "the old cherooswit."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> *Supposing gamist is D&D, what mean that does?*




In America, we discuss how Dungeons and Dragons is gamist because you always find a party.
In Soviet Russia, the Party always finds you and puts you in dungeon, and that's no game.


----------



## eyeheartawk

"That depends on what the definition of is _is"




_


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> "That depends on what the definition of is _is"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


----------



## eyeheartawk

Oh, Slick Willy


----------



## trappedslider

trust no one, especially snake hands jimmy, his hands are snakes


----------



## payn

Groundhog's day the thread continues...


----------



## Ryujin

Don't speak. Can't speak. Not my place.


----------



## Deset Gled

I've said it before, I'll say it more. I have no idea what constitutes threadcrapping and what doesn't these days.


----------



## South by Southwest

Deset Gled said:


> I've said it before, I'll say it more. I have no idea what constitutes threadcrapping and what doesn't these days.



Find yourself some Jell-o and a nail gun.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Find yourself some Jell-o and a nail gun.



Fitting of the new avatar!


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## Malmuria

How is that thread _still_ going??


----------



## Eric V

Malmuria said:


> How is that thread _still_ going??



Which one, specifically?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Malmuria said:


> How is that thread _still_ going??



I know, right? I'm pretty sure I know which one you're talking about, and I knew from the beginning that it would be trouble. I'm surprised that it's still going on.


----------



## Parmandur

Malmuria said:


> How is that thread _still_ going??



Hiw is this thread still going? The world is wondrous and mysterious.


----------



## payn

Ask Mr owl.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Ask Mr owl.


----------



## dragoner

"Tell me you are weird and racist w/o telling me you are weird and racist." At least I know who to block.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I know, right? I'm pretty sure I know which one you're talking about, and I knew from the beginning that it would be trouble. I'm surprised that it's still going on.


----------



## Asisreo

dragoner said:


> "Tell me you are weird and racist w/o telling me you are weird and racist." At least I know who to block.



"I'm going to post my political opinions on facebook."


----------



## dragoner

Asisreo said:


> "I'm going to post my political opinions on facebook."



"Twitter, don't fail me now!"


----------



## Cadence

To a poster in another thread.  Thank you!  I couldn't figure out what to say in a way that wouldn't get mod-ed.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## South by Southwest

Even leaving aside wisdom, charity, and prudence, just as a simple act of self-preservation _I am never going anywhere near that thread now._ Wow...


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Even leaving aside wisdom, charity, and prudence, just as a simple act of self-preservation _I am never going anywhere near that thread now._ Wow...



Wish I was wise like you...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> Even leaving aside wisdom, charity, and prudence, just as a simple act of self-preservation _I am never going anywhere near that thread now._ Wow...




Right now-





In twenty minutes-


----------



## billd91

Someone needs to be in a sleep study. Or something. Sheesh.


----------



## payn

payn said:


> I dont know why people waste their time posting _in_ the thread, when you are provided so much spacious room in the _title_ of the thread?



Still relevant.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Still relevant.




I mean ... at a certain point you have to appreciate it like performance art, right?


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean ... at a certain point you have to appreciate it like performance art, right?



But What If The Man Wearing a Tight Fitting Suit With a Bunch of Weird Patches is Arlecchino the Servant Clown, Sometimes to Two Masters, Would He Be Able to Marry Il Dottor's Daughter


----------



## TwoSix

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean ... at a certain point you have to appreciate it like performance art, right?



Honestly, I only peeked in one; once you've seen one violent car crash, you know you don't want to see anymore.


----------



## prabe

I read (well, sort of--it was a work thing) a novel once where the chapter subtitles got longer and more descriptive as the chapters themselves got shorter, with the subtitles eventually getting longer than the chapters.

Somehow I don't think anything that creative is going on in the threads I'm not reading ...


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean ... at a certain point you have to appreciate it like performance art, right?



Brought to you by People Whose Signature is Longer Than The Body of Their Email.


----------



## Asisreo

Ryujin said:


> Brought to you by People Whose Signature is Longer Than The Body of Their Email.



Okay, rude

Thank you for your time, 
Asisreo


----------



## payn

At least I cant even read the long ass spammer titles.


----------



## Asisreo

payn said:


> At least I cant even read the long ass spammer titles.



I would've listed them for you, but I'd reach the character limit


----------



## Retreater

Do you ever think someone is just trolling the entire site?


----------



## prabe

Retreater said:


> Do you ever think someone is just trolling the entire site?



Sometimes.

Unrelated: If the thread title is word salad, I'm not going to click in.


----------



## dragoner

I have seen them posting on reddit, and iirc, other traveller forums.


----------



## Gradine

What I'm fed up with is the pure European Feudalism of it all.

Where are the threads with titles like The Anarchist Collective Outlawed Legal Marriage At Their Last Meeting, And Nearly Half of My Polycule Is Upset About It


----------



## payn

I don't understand the words coming out of your post.


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## dragoner

Indeed they are a trip, same name, and similarly long thread titles, for a long time, years. Collect it all and put it in DM's Guild.


----------



## Deset Gled

Retreater said:


> Do you ever think someone is just trolling the entire site?




Some people are just really, really bad at communicating.  And there are also people who communicate just fine, but are just plain weird to start with.  It doesn't necessarily mean they have bad intentions.  

The real trolls tend to either be so eager to cause havoc that they get caught quickly, or smart enough not to start threads that stand out so much.


----------



## dragoner

Gradine said:


> What I'm fed up with is the pure European Feudalism of it all.
> 
> Where are the threads with titles like The Anarchist Collective Outlawed Legal Marriage At Their Last Meeting, And Nearly Half of My Polycule Is Upset About It



This sounds like something perfect for my _Solis _sfrpg, there is even a star system where the main world is run by an anarchist collective; I could see the players be like deer caught in the headlights when something happens, and that hook is in there.


----------



## Deset Gled

Well, it looks like the thread made it to post #9 before someone completely ignored the topic at large and decided to appropriate it for their own agenda.  I was hoping it would get until at least page 2 before that happened.


----------



## trappedslider

one of the best parts of the Willow movie


----------



## Asisreo

trappedslider said:


> one of the best parts of the Willow movie



How it's like when people on the internet have an "unpopular opinion" on how "other women" should act and what rights they're allowed to have.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Asisreo said:


> How it's like when people on the internet have an "unpopular opinion" on how "other women" should act and what rights they're allowed to have.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Ironic, considering the source...


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Gradine said:


> Ironic, considering the source...



I'm pretty sure that's the joke


----------



## Gradine

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm pretty sure that's the joke



I was referring to outside the fiction


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Gradine said:


> I was referring to outside the fiction



Ah. What show does it come from?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Ah. What show does it come from?




Silicon Valley.


----------



## J.Quondam

Seriously, lay off the pineapple. If you won't do it for yourself, then do it for Randy.









						Bearded dragon rescued from 'SpongeBob' pineapple toy
					

Veterinarians at a Massachusetts animal hospital rescued a bearded dragon from an unusual situation when the lizard got his head stuck inside a toy pineapple.




					www.upi.com


----------



## South by Southwest

Nope nope nope nope nope. Still not touchin' it. Nope.

Nasty thing about explosives is what happens when they go off.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Nope nope nope nope nope. Still not touchin' it. Nope.
> 
> Nasty thing about explosives is what happens when they go off.



If you are careful tho...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> Nope nope nope nope nope. Still not touchin' it. Nope.
> 
> Nasty thing about explosives is what happens when they go off.




C’mon. Sometimes you just want to watch the world burn.


----------



## trappedslider

I can see my ship from here!


----------



## payn




----------



## payn

Still relevant...


----------



## CleverNickName

I certainly hope that's not in Celsius!


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Hussar

The Unwatch button is the greatest invention this site has ever had.


----------



## dragoner

Hussar said:


> The Unwatch button is the greatest invention this site has ever had.



+ ignore


----------



## CleverNickName

I miss "Fork to New Thread."


----------



## J.Quondam

Hussar said:


> The Unwatch button is the greatest invention this site has ever had.



I just wish there was an "Unsee" button that would allow me to forget the most egregiously stupid and/or vile things I read.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> I miss "Fork to New Thread."



That _would_ be awesome. It's too bad that the more argumentative passionate people don't  do that by default, just out of respect for an OP.


----------



## billd91

I think I may have just seen an OP succeed at a "resist troll" saving throw. Kudos to them!


----------



## South by Southwest

Every once in a while there's a development on a thread where it's just...


----------



## trappedslider

someone can't get over a comment made by another user


----------



## Davies

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 249435



This gets addressed in the radio adaptation, where Luke cleverly points out that Leia is the heir to all of the Alderaanian royal family's off-planet assets.


----------



## South by Southwest

Well, that's funny--what happened to our spammers? Do they not love us anymore?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

South by Southwest said:


> Well, that's funny--what happened to our spammers? Do they not love us anymore?



Don't jinx it!


----------



## Asisreo

As I scroll through the thread, I see one where I least expect it..."Eek! Kill it! Kill it!"


----------



## Deset Gled

Opening safes seems to be a surprisingly critical part of D&D.  I had no idea.


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> Opening safes seems to be a surprisingly critical part of D&D.  I had no idea.



I love me some safe crackin!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Opening safes seems to be a surprisingly critical part of D&D.  I had no idea.


----------



## Deset Gled

Snarf Zagyg said:


> View attachment 249847



What a pity.  If he had rolled higher on the safe check his wife might still be alive today.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> What a pity.  If he had rolled higher on the safe check his wife might still be alive today.




We can roll higher if we want to
We can leave the rogue behind
'Cause the rogues don't roll 
And if they don't roll
Well, the expertise is mine

Say, we can crack safes when we want to
No matter how well the safe is designed
And we can roll over any DC
That the DM sets
Even open safes when we are blind

And we can roll
Or dance

We can roll when we want to
The difficulty check is high and so am I
And we can use a feat
To make sure we can compete
And open the safe with a victory cry

Say, we can roll if we want to
If we don't, nobody will
And you can act like a rogue and open that safe
While the bard acts like an imbecile

And say, we can dance, we can dance
That DC is rising out of control
We can dance, we can dance
I need advantage for this roll
We can dance, we can dance
Best safecracker in the lands
We can dance, we can dance
Everybody's taking the chance
Safe check dance
Oh well, the safe check dance
Ah yes, the safe check dance


----------



## Mannahnin

Thank you for that Bardic Inspiration, Snarf.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Thank you for that Bardic Inspiration, Snarf.




You know, try and spread a little joy, and what happens? Aspersions and calumnies.

As I always say- some people bring joy wherever they go, bards bring joy whenever they go.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You know, try and spread a little joy, and what happens? Aspersions and calumnies.
> 
> As I always say- some people bring joy wherever they go, bards bring joy whenever they go.



"I hate to see you go, but I love to watch you leave."


----------



## Mannahnin

Ryujin said:


> "I hate to see you go, but I love to watch you leave."



Are you saying Snarf has a great ass? 

And if so, are you doing so with an impression of Al Pacino in the movie _Heat_?  Because I think that's compulsory.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Are you saying Snarf has a great ass?




Honestly, not only is that deserved, it's OVERDUE.

Usually, people are just like, "Snarf, you're being a giant ass."

And then I have to go all McNulty on them. "What the eff did I do?"


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Honestly, not only is that deserved, it's OVERDUE.
> 
> Usually, people are just like, "Snarf, you're being a giant ass."
> 
> And then I have to go all McNulty on them. "What the eff did I do?"


----------



## Ryujin

Mannahnin said:


> Are you saying Snarf has a great ass?
> 
> And if so, are you doing so with an impression of Al Pacino in the movie _Heat_?  Because I think that's compulsory.



Travolta


----------



## billd91

Well, that attempt was pretty much a failure.


----------



## payn

Are we really going to argue about the availability of dice in the 1980's?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

We're reviving the whole "D&D is nothing but a cutesy adorable kid game now!" discussion from a month back? Seriously?

I wish that discussion would just die already. I never understood why anyone would get so upset at thinking that this game that's designed to bring kids into the hobby would, you know, _do that_.


----------



## payn

Ouch, I was just crushed by a wall of text...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Are we really going to argue about the availability of dice in the 1980's?


----------



## billd91

Didn't see *that* coming...


----------



## prabe

So can there be an argument about jargon that doesn't use jargon? Inquiring minds want to know ...


----------



## niklinna

prabe said:


> So can there be an argument about jargon that doesn't use jargon? Inquiring minds want to know ...



Could you define this word "jargon" for me? 

Edit: Forgot the smiley!


----------



## prabe

niklinna said:


> Could you define this word "jargon" for me?











						Definition of JARGON
					

the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group; obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words; confused unintelligible language… See the full definition




					www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## billd91

I can hardly wait...


----------



## Deset Gled

I actually like GNS theory, and I see a lot of posts on this board where applying it as a model would be really useful.  Of course, I can never actually post that, as even a passive mention of it has the power to summon a Lovecraftian level of threadcrapping.

ENWorld is not a safe space for GNS theory.


----------



## Hussar

Deset Gled said:


> I actually like GNS theory, and I see a lot of posts on this board where applying it as a model would be really useful.  Of course, I can never actually post that, as even a passive mention of it has the power to summon a Lovecraftian level of threadcrapping.
> 
> ENWorld is not a safe space for GNS theory.



I can see that.  GNS theory and invoking Tolkien are both pretty much direct lines to Godwinning the thread.


----------



## niklinna

Hussar said:


> I can see that.  GNS theory and invoking Tolkien are both pretty much direct lines to Godwinning the thread.



At least I've still got my Monty Python references....


----------



## CleverNickName

Getting real tired of "gun culture" in my country.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> I actually like GNS theory, and I see a lot of posts on this board where applying it as a model would be really useful.  Of course, I can never actually post that, as even a passive mention of it has the power to summon a Lovecraftian level of threadcrapping.
> 
> ENWorld is not a safe space for GNS theory.




I disagree with that. For various reasons, it has been my experience that enworld is a difficult place to discuss theory, in any way, unless you want to deal with groups of people that discuss GNS and the Forge exclusively whenever theory comes up.

Which is counterproductive for me, as:
1. While it was a useful _tool_ for designing specific games (specifically, the "N" part), it really is unhelpful when discussing a lot of mainstream games, and especially 5e. Which means that you end up having weird conversations where people are trying to discuss 5e, and instead end up in long .... conversations ... about GNS punctuated by play examples from games many people have never heard of or played.

2. This was an interesting concept ... 20 years ago. There's a lot of great work since then (I once posted a whole bunch of links so people could read up on the great theory work since then). For various reasons, I find that quoting essays from the same person from two decades ago does not, in fact, answer every question I have about the games I play. I mean ... if someone said that there was a dearth of feminist TTRPG theory here, I could get behind that. Or Queer Representation in TTRPGs and the related issues of societal positioning. Or even basic "best practices" for design and play with specified goals in mind (something that the CRPG world has done a lot of work on). 

3. The conversations are so self-referential (with people often linking to their posts from two years ago) and so jargon-filled, that it isn't enjoyable to participate. 

Despite that negative assessment, I genuinely think that people should be able to discuss what they want, and I think that this was part of the evolution of games. But I have had the exact opposite experience from you- almost every theory thread I have seen on enworld (and many I have started) just end up in the same conversations about GNS.

...which is why I no longer start in those threads, and rarely participate. 

But if you're looking for a GNS thread, there is usually one or two longer GNS-adjacent threads going on at any given time. Or start your own; there are many people on enworld that enjoy talking about it.


----------



## payn

Things are getting real around here all of a sudden...


----------



## BookTenTiger

Does + now mean "turn up the heat?"


----------



## J.Quondam

Some days I scroll through the threads here, bewildered, and feel like I'm sitting at the little kids' table at a holiday dinner.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BookTenTiger said:


> Does + now mean "turn up the heat?"










Apparently, "Plus" is the Greek symbol for Trident.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Some days I scroll through the threads here, bewildered, and feel like I'm sitting at the little kids' table at a holiday dinner.



Only *some* days?

On those other days, do you not come here?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Apparently, "Plus" is the Greek symbol for Trident.


----------



## niklinna

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 2. This was an interesting concept ... 20 years ago. There's a lot of great work since then (I once posted a whole bunch of links so people could read up on the great theory work since then).



I'd love to check out that list! If you have it handy, please reshare.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

niklinna said:


> I'd love to check out that list! If you have it handy, please reshare.




It’s at the end of the first post on this thread-








						RPG Theory- The Limits of My Language are the Limits of My World
					

Well, it happened again! Another thread, ostensibly about one thing (discussing the division of narrative authority within 5e) turned into another thing (jargon-filled general discussion about RPG theory). Which is thing. Thread drift happens! But given the recurrent nature of this issue, I...




					www.enworld.org
				




There is also a link to this site, which has a good selection of essays-




__





						thoughts — Black & Green Games
					






					www.blackgreengames.com


----------



## billd91

Mmmm.... still enjoying that tasty, tasty schadenfreude.


----------



## hawkeyefan

billd91 said:


> Mmmm.... still enjoying that tasty, tasty schadenfreude.




Oooo where? Who doesn't love tasty schadenfreude?


----------



## billd91

hawkeyefan said:


> Oooo where? Who doesn't love tasty schadenfreude?



On the shelves next to the bitter tears of impotent rage. It's for when you need to satisfy that thirst - schadenfreude can get a little salty.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> On the shelves next to the bitter tears of impotent rage. It's for when you need to satisfy that thirst - schadenfreude can get a little salty.



I read that in my head like a voice over in a commercial.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> On the shelves next to the bitter tears of impotent rage. It's for when you need to satisfy that thirst - schadenfreude can get a little salty.



With the Schtrudel just to the right of it because who doesn't love a nosh, with their floor show.


----------



## dragoner

Let's spend two hours making characters to play for an hour.


----------



## Asisreo

dragoner said:


> Let's spend two hours making characters to play for an hour.



I see you've also begun DM'ing for brand new players.


----------



## Deset Gled

dragoner said:


> Let's spend two hours making characters to play for an hour.




You can laugh at it if you want, but there were definitely times I did that as a 3.Xe DM and loved every minute of it.


----------



## dragoner

Asisreo said:


> I see you've also begun DM'ing for brand new players.



One would think so, except sometimes it's the usual suspects sabotaging each other in a game of one upsmanship, and the GM being too mild mannered to put a stop to it.


----------



## dragoner

Deset Gled said:


> You can laugh at it if you want, but there were definitely times I did that as a 3.Xe DM and loved every minute of it.



Indeed that crossed my mind for a moment.


----------



## Gradine

billd91 said:


> schadenfreude can get a little salty.



I was under the impression that, much like with pretzels or soy sauce, the salt is the entire point


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> One would think so, except sometimes it's the usual suspects sabotaging each other in a game of one upsmanship, and the GM being too mild mannered to put a stop to it.



In one group with which I played there was a guy who would make a crappy character and get it killed off pretty early, then return with a clone of my character concept. The difference was that he would take that concept and maximize it, so that it was able to do everything that mine could do, better. I would have thought it was a coincidence but it happened 4 different times, in two different RPGs. Not much fun.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> In one group with which I played there was a guy who would make a crappy character and get it killed off pretty early, then return with a clone of my character concept. The difference was that he would take that concept and maximize it, so that it was able to do everything that mine could do, better. I would have thought it was a coincidence but it happened 4 different times, in two different RPGs. Not much fun.



Something as GM I would have landed with both boots on the first time I saw that. I mean, sometimes I have to give the "taking away the player agency" argument the side eye.


----------



## Cadence

It really is ok, if just once, you'd actually think about what you're going to type before typing it, and imagine how it would play out in the real world, and maybe even think about other people too and not just your self.


----------



## prabe

Oh, look! It took five pages before the thread about how a thing is bad turned into an argument about what the thing is!

If I'm surprised, I'm surprised it took that long.


----------



## South by Southwest

Well, I tried.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> Well, I tried.



There is no try, there is do, or do not.


----------



## Cadence

Parmandur said:


> There is no try, there is do, or do not.




Why is do pronounced like doo, except when you want to type there is also do do?


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Why is do pronounced like doo, except when you want to type there is also do do?



The Great Vowel Shift.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> The Great Vowel Shift.



The fact the timing of that overlapped so closely with the arrival of the printing press is why English spelling is such a mess. Well, that and the fact English steals words.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> The fact the timing of that overlapped so closely with the arrival of the printing press is why English spelling is such a mess. Well, that and the fact English steals words.



I'm also going to blame William of Ockham, because forget that guy.


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> I'm also going to blame William of Ockham, because forget that guy.



What a tool! He doesn't even believe in car key gnomes.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> The fact the timing of that overlapped so closely with the arrival of the printing press is why English spelling is such a mess. Well, that and the fact English steals words.



Edited for language:

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse wh***. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Edited for language:
> 
> "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse wh***. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
> --James D. Nicoll



I'm wearing a T-shirt with an uncredited paraphrase of the second sentence on it.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> I'm wearing a T-shirt with an uncredited paraphrase of the second sentence on it.



I was introduced to the expression on your shirt by the writer, Matt Vancil, and immediately went looking for the source. He's a wordie guy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I'm wearing a T-shirt with an uncredited paraphrase of the second sentence on it.




Huh.

You also have a T-Shirt that says, "I'm going to pursue you down an alleyway and beat you unconscious."

Guess the mugger's union had another successful membership drive!


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> What a tool! He doesn't even believe in car key gnomes.



Or the eternal abstrsct Idea of Chair, or Pizza! The nerve!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Today's daily affirmation:

The old hotness is watching the world burn.

The new hotness is writing demented reviews of TV episodes.

#FREEHEMMER


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

"The game being internally consistent is more important that it being playable" is certainly an opinion. A really bad one. But it's still an opinion.


----------



## prabe

IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE BAD OPINIONS WE WILL HAVE NOTHING


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE BAD OPINIONS WE WILL HAVE NOTHING



How about we keep the pineapple and anchovies on the pizza, and you just pick it off if you want to be that way??????


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> How about we keep the pineapple and anchovies on the pizza, and you just pick it off if you want to be that way??????



Pineapples are fine on pizza. Anchovies are a war crime.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> Pineapples are fine on pizza. Anchovies are a war crime.



BUT WE HAD ANCHOVIES ON OUR PINEAPPLE PIZZA IN THE 80'S, HOW DARE YOU TRY AND CHANGE THE ORDER NOW!!!

I mean, at what point does it cease to even be pizza??


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE BAD OPINIONS WE WILL HAVE NOTHING


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> BUT WE HAD ANCHOVIES ON OUR PINEAPPLE PIZZA IN THE 80'S, HOW DARE YOU TRY AND CHANGE THE ORDER NOW!!!
> 
> I mean, at what point does it cease to even be pizza??



When you put anchovies on it. Or olives, for that matter.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> I mean, at what point does it cease to even be pizza??




The pineapple.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> When you put anchovies on it. Or olives, for that matter.



Why do you hate older pizza afficiandos?


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The pineapple.



Postmodern crypto-Gnostic Jacobite tish-posh, I say!


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Why do you hate older pizza afficiandos?



Because they keep putting non-food-objects on pizza.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> Or olives, for that matter.



That is where I draw the line. Olives, if you get the right type/brand, can be excellent on pizza. Only black olives, though. None of that green crap.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> Because they keep putting non-food-objects on pizza.



You see, the problem with pizzerias these days is that they make toppings that people actually like and want, rather than catering to the enlightened elite by forcing everyone to eat pineapple & anchovies pizza with goat cheese and Ghost pepper sauce all the time.

Their so -called "customer data" is really a global conspiracy to repress me, personally.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> That is where I draw the line. Olives, if you get the right type/brand, can be excellent on pizza. Only black olives, though. None of that green crap.



Not-posting-in-another-thread joking aside, green olives and anchovies are exquisite on a pizza.


----------



## prabe

AcererakTriple6 said:


> That is where I draw the line. Olives, if you get the right type/brand, can be excellent on pizza. Only black olives, though. None of that green crap.



Olives are useful right up to the moment you press the oil from them.


----------



## Hussar

Oh gawd. I failed my saving throw. Arrrrgggghhhh.


----------



## prabe

Parmandur said:


> Not-posting-in-another-thread joking aside, green olives and anchovies are exquisite on a pizza.



As you say: Joking aside, there are ingredients and combinations that I know to be classic that I cannot stand.


----------



## Gradine

Anchovies, kimchi, jalapenos, pickled garlic. The best pizza


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> Postmodern crypto-Gnostic Jacobite tish-posh, I say!



Wow. You dug deep for that one. Hat-tip.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Anchovies, kimchi, jalapenos, pickled garlic. The best pizza




….for ending a date.


----------



## Cadence

Tuna on pizza... also not good.


----------



## BookTenTiger

I strongly stand by my opinion that there are very few foods that, with the correct combination of paired toppings, wouldn't taste good on a pizza.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> Wow. You dug deep for that one. Hat-tip.



Well, it's hard to not-post with shallow dips.


----------



## Parmandur

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ….for ending a date.



Weeding the dating field, more like.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ….for ending a date.



You don't need kisses when you're suffering from debilitating heartburn


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

AcererakTriple6 said:


> "The game being internally consistent is more important that it being playable" is certainly an opinion. A really bad one. But it's still an opinion.



Oh my god. It's even worse that I had thought when I wrote this. How can they seriously believe all of this nonsense? I'd expect stuff like this on Therpgsite. But not here. I really thought the people on ENWorld were better than this.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ….for ending a date.



...with Snarf.


----------



## payn

Im starting to suspect that folks are dropping jargon in the jargon discussion just so they can explain it now. "Oh, you never heard of this? Well let me explain..."


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Im starting to suspect that folks are dropping jargon in the jargon discussion just so they can explain it now. "Oh, you never heard of this? Well let me explain..."



That wouldn't be horrible, in principle, but I think the thread specifically asking for that would be the better place.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> That wouldn't be horrible, in principle, but I think the thread specifically asking for that would be the better place.



Exactly. I think folks often look for backdoor ways to discuss their favorite topics instead of just making threads themselves. Cant say im innocent.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Exactly. I think folks often look for backdoor ways to discuss their favorite topics instead of just making threads themselves. Cant say im innocent.



To be fair, that's based on understanding the thread asking folks not to use jargon, as wanting them to *explain their terms*. Also, that thread (I gather) involved someone getting kinda called out for their behavior in a way they must have found unsettling, if they don't see themselves as others see them (and most people don't).


----------



## hawkeyefan

I think the problem with the jargon threads is that the first one was a bit unclear in its intentions and then the second post in the thread was little more than a personal attack, and then the thread was changed to be a + thread in some attempt to keep the peace, but I think the damage was done at that point. Honestly, the second post should have been edited... well it was, but just to point out that it was made before the + designation was added. 

To actually make an attempt at having a productive conversation, it should have been edited in its entirety. It really cast a mean-spirited vibe onto that thread from the jump.


----------



## dragoner

I don't think any sort of theory crafting in RPG's has ever helped me at the table, which is ironic, because as both an engineer, and later, as certified financial manager, I have a tendency to approach problems from the theory side first.


----------



## trappedslider

Someone installed an electrical outlet on a Florida traffic light. ‘Are you kidding?’
					

“Someone out there decided the traffic light was not functioning to its full ability.”




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## Gradine

Theory and jargon are useful from an academic sense, and potentially from a game design perspective as well. On the front end, however, it's not particularly useful at all.


----------



## payn

Gotta complain twice about this. Last night was my Traveller game. The previous session one gamer who lives in Eastern Time zone (Canada) asked to shift the start time down. We agreed and then next session they showed up late because they forgot about it. Rest of us were all on board and on time here in the central time zone (U.S.)


----------



## dragoner

It might be that I don't view gaming as a problem, and just like to roll dice, and scribble on paper; very much a tactile pleasure. As long as the rules aren't too convoluted, I am good to go.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Gotta complain twice about this. Last night was my Traveller game. The previous session one gamer who lives in Eastern Time zone (Canada) asked to shift the start time down. We agreed and then next session they showed up late because they forgot about it. Rest of us were all on board and on time here in the central time zone (U.S.)



Sorry to read it, payn.

We've had stuff like that happen, too, but players are pretty consistent about announcing in advance whether they'll make it on time or not that night. Chalk it up to, _"We all space out and forget things occasionally,"_ and have the perp fail his/her next skill check.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Sorry to read it, payn.
> 
> We've had stuff like that happen, too, but players are pretty consistent about announcing in advance whether they'll make it on time or not that night. Chalk it up to, _"We all space out and forget things occasionally,"_ and have the perp fail his/her next skill check.



It was an honest mistake and we did have a good session anyhow. I just got worried because this is a pretty dedicated player who is very punctual usually.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> It was an honest mistake and we did have a good session anyhow. I just got worried because this is a pretty dedicated player who is very punctual usually.



Oh, okay--so this was an honest error from someone who's pretty reliable. Then I wouldn't even mess with 'em next session; I'd just chalk it up to, _"Hey, we're human."_


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Oh, okay--so this was an honest error from someone who's pretty reliable. Then I wouldn't even mess with 'em next session; I'd just chalk it up to, _"Hey, we're human."_



Afterwards it was a bit of a relief. It was just interesting since they requested the change and were the only one to forget about it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Gotta complain twice about this. Last night was my Traveller game. The previous session one gamer who lives in Eastern Time zone (Canada) asked to shift the start time down. We agreed and then next session they showed up late because they forgot about it. Rest of us were all on board and on time here in the central time zone (U.S.)




Time is an illusion created by people that don't understand that I don't care if I'm late.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Time is an illusion



lunch time doubly so


----------



## Deset Gled

Does anyone else get the feeling that there's been a big "like" inflation over the past few years?

I'm not complaining, I enjoy the positive feedback when I get it.  But I'm also realizing that what I used to think what a lot of likes is, well, not so much nowadays.  And some of these really long threads seem to have soooo much liking going on.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Does anyone else get the feeling that there's been a big "like" inflation over the past few years?




Oh, the need to be liked is long-standing.


----------



## dragoner

Deset Gled said:


> Does anyone else get the feeling that there's been a big "like" inflation over the past few years?
> 
> I'm not complaining, I enjoy the positive feedback when I get it.  But I'm also realizing that what I used to think what a lot of likes is, well, not so much nowadays.  And some of these really long threads seem to have soooo much liking going on.



The etiquette has changed towards more likes. When I went back to school in 2009, I had an internet communications course, which said I was too brusque, I needed to do more to seem warmer; emojis, and likes help to do that.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> Does anyone else get the feeling that there's been a big "like" inflation over the past few years?
> 
> I'm not complaining, I enjoy the positive feedback when I get it.  But I'm also realizing that what I used to think what a lot of likes is, well, not so much nowadays.  And some of these really long threads seem to have soooo much liking going on.



Can't speak for anyone else but I've started liking responses, instead of posting affirmative replies, because of the number of times my posts were mistaken for disagreement.


----------



## Mannahnin

Often a Like is just a quick easy way to indicate agreement.


----------



## Deset Gled

Mannahnin said:


> Often a Like is just a quick easy way to indicate agreement.




I think it's that the barrier for how much you have to like something to "like" something is lower.  In my memory, in the first days of the system you only hit "like" if it was something you were really a cheerleader for.  Nowadays its for anything you casually agree with.

Now that I sit down and think about it a bit, I can think of two reasons for this.  First, in the earlier days of the "like" system on ENWorld, you could only like someone once, and then you had to "like" a certain number of people (I think 10?) before you could like that person again.  This was done to prevent spamming of likes.  Obviously, it's not in place anymore.  And in a lot of long threads, you do often see two sides that just go back and forth, "liking" the posts of people on their side.

The second is that ENWorld doesn't have a "dislike" feature.  Without a negative option, you can be tempted to "like" on everything against the thing you dislike instead.  I've found myself guilty of spamming "likes" this way a few times.


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> Does anyone else get the feeling that there's been a big "like" inflation over the past few years?
> 
> I'm not complaining, I enjoy the positive feedback when I get it.  But I'm also realizing that what I used to think what a lot of likes is, well, not so much nowadays.  And some of these really long threads seem to have soooo much liking going on.



Make Loves; not likes?


----------



## J.Quondam

I keep reading "Zargon" in that thread title.


----------



## trappedslider

Deset Gled said:


> I think it's that the barrier for how much you have to like something to "like" something is lower.  In my memory, in the first days of the system you only hit "like" if it was something you were really a cheerleader for.  Nowadays its for anything you casually agree with.
> 
> Now that I sit down and think about it a bit, I can think of two reasons for this.  First, in the earlier days of the "like" system on ENWorld, you could only like someone once, and then you had to "like" a certain number of people (I think 10?) before you could like that person again.  This was done to prevent spamming of likes.  Obviously, it's not in place anymore.  And in a lot of long threads, you do often see two sides that just go back and forth, "liking" the posts of people on their side.
> 
> The second is that ENWorld doesn't have a "dislike" feature.  Without a negative option, you can be tempted to "like" on everything against the thing you dislike instead.  I've found myself guilty of spamming "likes" this way a few times.



so..reddit?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Deset Gled said:


> I think it's that the barrier for how much you have to like something to "like" something is lower.  In my memory, in the first days of the system you only hit "like" if it was something you were really a cheerleader for.  Nowadays its for anything you casually agree with.
> 
> Now that I sit down and think about it a bit, I can think of two reasons for this.  First, in the earlier days of the "like" system on ENWorld, you could only like someone once, and then you had to "like" a certain number of people (I think 10?) before you could like that person again.  This was done to prevent spamming of likes.  Obviously, it's not in place anymore.  And in a lot of long threads, you do often see two sides that just go back and forth, "liking" the posts of people on their side.
> 
> The second is that ENWorld doesn't have a "dislike" feature.  Without a negative option, you can be tempted to "like" on everything against the thing you dislike instead.  I've found myself guilty of spamming "likes" this way a few times.



There is a bit of tribalism going on, especially in longer and more contentious threads once people finished laying out their argument and sides have formed. And, as you said, the closest thing that this site has to a "Downvote" or "Dislike" is making sure that everyone on your side has more likes than the one person/few people you disagree with.


----------



## Retreater

I like liking posts.
I also like olives on pizza.
I also like olives straight from the can.


----------



## Gradine

Green olives, btw, are friggin delicious, but they aren't proper pizza toppings the way black olives are.


----------



## Retreater

Gradine said:


> Green olives, btw, are friggin delicious, but they aren't proper pizza toppings the way black olives are.



I've had green olives on a pizza before that were pretty awesome. I'm not sure the other combo of toppings: I'm guessing sausage and onions.
I'll eat a pizza with a variety of all the olives.


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> Green olives, btw, are friggin delicious, but they aren't proper pizza toppings the way black olives are.



Right? I can eat green olives right out of the can, but not black olives. Can't stand green olives on pizza, but black olives on pizza I'd have every day.


----------



## Cadence

That might be the most ironically relevant, absolutely true post ever.


----------



## CleverNickName

I promise I'm not trolling, but if I post the question in That Thread everyone will assume otherwise.
Seriously: what does GNS stand for?  You can use jargon if it helps; I'm not allergic.


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> I promise I'm not trolling, but if I post the question in That Thread everyone will assume otherwise.
> Seriously: what does GNS stand for?  You can use jargon if it helps; I'm not allergic.



Gamism, narrativism, simulationism.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ah, okay.  Thanks for the info, I was wracking my brain over that acronym.

That's a really weird thing to argue about, isn't it?


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> Ah, okay.  Thanks for the info, I was wracking my brain over that acronym.
> 
> That's a really weird thing to argue about, isn't it?



It's also much, much more simple than any thread here would lead you to believe.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> It's also much, much more simple than any thread here would lead you to believe.



It feels like that depends on how strongly one's agenda is to support/thrash pineapple vs. merely discussing relative qualities for the sake of comparison.


----------



## dragoner

Don't break the flow!








						Flow (psychology) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Green olives, btw, are friggin delicious, but they aren't proper pizza toppings the way black olives are.



Have you tried an olive oil based sauce with chicken, tomatoes, and green olives? Works wonders in that configuration.


----------



## niklinna

I think pineapple is a perfectly legit pizza topping.

Oh wait, did I mix two separate chains of posts here?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Game, Not Science.


----------



## Cadence

"So what brings you to the pizzeria today?"

"I love the way pizza brings the marinara and mozzarella together!"

"Here's some squirrel brain and pineapple  pizza on pumpernickel crust, enjoy your marinara and mozzarella!"

"Blech!"

"So it wasn't really the marinara and mozzarella that makes you like it after all!"


----------



## J.Quondam

I bet baby succubus goes nicely with pineapple on a pizza.


----------



## dragoner

Evil Dead Baby


----------



## South by Southwest

I have never understood this apparent delight in making long, detailed posts to tell other people their ideas are stupid. I mean, for one thing, "Your ideas are stupid" ≠ • ⊭ "Mine are smart." Even more fundamentally, though, _what is the deal, man???_


----------



## dragoner

People have too much time on their hands -


----------



## Cadence

What is the definition of "success"?  Is tuna pizza successful? Pineapple?  Pepperoni? Deepdish/stuffed?  New York style? Papa Johns?  Pizza Hut?  The class of "mom and pop pizza joints"?  Pizza as an entity?


----------



## dragoner

I brought a kroger "ulti-meat" pizza home the other day, and we successfully ate it. Those wily grocery stores putting deli pizzas next to the produce section.


----------



## Cadence

Also a P for Pedantry?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> What is the definition of "success"?




_What is success? The failure of others. Now if you can't be first, you make sure that the others in your kindergarten are last._

-Grandma Snarf.


----------



## dragoner

Maybe instead of succubus, it's a succu_bee ... _then one could sing: "I'm bringing home a baby succubee ..."


----------



## Gradine

dragoner said:


> Maybe instead of succubus, it's a succu_bee ... _then one could sing: "I'm bringing home a baby succubee ..."



Leave the bees alone, man. They're going through enough as it is


----------



## dragoner

Gradine said:


> Leave the bees alone, man. They're going through enough as it is



Indeed. Have you heard of Wild Bee Publishing? They are cool.


----------



## Hussar

Now I want popcorn on my pizza.  

But, for sure, yes, this time I will make my saving throw and click that unwatch button and NOT GO BACK.  Sigh.


----------



## CleverNickName

I'm unironically eating pineapple & ham pizza, while I write a house-rule for character creation in my next campaign.  If I'm doing it wrong, I don't wanna be right.


----------



## Cadence

If the folks who like pepperoni would just always concede their pizza doesn't do any of the good stuff  - ever  (whatever that is in a given case), it feels like the pineapple super-fans would get a whole lot of life satisfaction.


----------



## niklinna

It's hard to have an enjoyable or productive conversation when the people involved have different...agendas.


----------



## Cadence

niklinna said:


> It's hard to have an enjoyable or productive conversation when the people involved have different...agendas.



What fun is a discussion if we can't treat it like modern partisanship or old school religious conflict.  :-(


----------



## South by Southwest

Yankees Fans on This Side                    *||*                    Red Sox Fans on This Side
*||*
*FIGHT!!!*​


Everything else is details.


----------



## payn

_The Boys_ isnt just bad, its in fact terrible. A once promising concept that just isnt allowed to go anywhere. Anytime a character has any semblance of growth, the rug is yanked out from under them and its right back to page 1. Writers seem to be afraid to upset the applecart of this A-Team like gore fest. So, instead we are treated to plots driven by clichés delivered one secret manila folder at a time. Ultimately, the show is just a vehicle for violence and sex jokes that never wants to leave that Beavis and Butthead demographic range.

/Sizzling take Sunday


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> _The Boys_ isnt just bad, its in fact terrible. A once promising concept that just isnt allowed to go anywhere. Anytime a character has any semblance of growth, the rug is yanked out from under them and its right back to page 1. Writers seem to be afraid to upset the applecart of this A-Team like gore fest. So, instead we are treated to plots driven by clichés delivered one secret manila folder at a time. Ultimately, the show is just a vehicle for violence and sex jokes that never wants to leave that Beavis and Butthead demographic range.
> 
> /Sizzling take Sunday



That's what the comic was like, as I recall.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Ultimately, the show is just a vehicle for violence and sex jokes that never wants to leave that Beavis and Butthead demographic range.




YES! That is the elevator pitch! I am so in.

"It's like Beavis & Butthead, but superheroes and more gore and sex."


----------



## trappedslider

The ancient Egyptian art of hovering


----------



## Cadence

"Seriously, you keep saying 'half-baked' is negative, but that is just you choosing to read it that way.  You're selling half a pizza, it's a natural name for that."


----------



## trappedslider

Ever been so tired you just lay down in the middle of the city or that so tired of the argument you just decide to take a nap?


----------



## South by Southwest

trappedslider said:


> Ever been so tired you just lay down in the middle of the city or [...] *so tired of the argument you just decide to take a nap?*



There are whole threads on EN World that make me feel that way.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

South by Southwest said:


> There are whole threads on EN World that make me feel that way.



A.K.A - Whichever active thread(s) has the most page count at the moment.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> A.K.A - Whichever active thread(s) has the most page count at the moment.




…._that would be this thread. _

There are only three food agendas. 

Good pizza
No pizza
Shi—y pizza (aka. Pineapple)

That’s right. It’s the typology of pizza.


----------



## South by Southwest

Snarf Zagyg said:


> …._that would be this thread. _
> 
> There are only three food agendas.
> 
> Good pizza
> No pizza
> Shi—y pizza (aka. Pineapple)
> 
> That’s right. It’s the typology of pizza.



Yes, but can we discuss it without jargon?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> Yes, but can we discuss it without jargon?




Of course! 

I mean, I once let a seven year old pick out the pizza toppings. We ended up with gummi worms, pineapple, fudge sauce, and pepperoni. 

In pizza theory, we call this an incoherent set of toppings. But, you know, not in the bad way!


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Of course!
> 
> I mean, I once let a seven year old pick out the pizza toppings. We ended up with gummi worms, pineapple, fudge sauce, and pepperoni.
> 
> In pizza theory, we call this an incoherent set of toppings. But, you know, not in the bad way!



There are only three types of pizza: pineapple, fudge sauce, and the kind that’s actually good


----------



## South by Southwest

Malmuria said:


> There are only three types of pizza: pineapple, fudge sauce, and the kind that’s actually good



Here I must beg to differ: the kind with green olives on it is also bad.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> Here I must beg to differ: the kind with green olives on it is also bad.




Well, pineapple is a _technical term_ that also means green olives. 

It’s obvious, right?


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, pineapple is a _technical term_ that also means green olives.
> 
> It’s obvious, right?



And Tuna.  Duh.


----------



## Hussar

Because endlessly waffling on about the meaning of a word even after you know what is the intended meaning is adding just so much value to a discussion.


----------



## South by Southwest

Hussar said:


> Because endlessly waffling on about the meaning of a word even after you know what is the intended meaning is adding just so much value to a discussion.



Man, you should've seen what my philosophy of language seminar was like in grad school. Every time we got onto Ludwig Wittgenstein or Donald Davidson, it was gonna be a _long_ night.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> Because endlessly waffling on about the meaning of a word even after you know what is the intended meaning is adding just so much value to a discussion.




Don’t get me started on waffle toppings….


----------



## niklinna

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Don’t get me started on waffle toppings….



Hash browns & gravy!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

niklinna said:


> Hash browns & gravy!




What is wrong with people?

Don’t poutine your waffles!!!! Look, you can have a French fry agenda, or a waffle agenda, but if you mix it up… it’s gonna be madness. 

MADNESS.


----------



## CleverNickName

There are really only two kinds of pizza:

The kind that I order.
The kind that someone else orders.


----------



## niklinna

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What is wrong with people?
> 
> Don’t poutine your waffles!!!! Look, you can have a French fry agenda, or a waffle agenda, but if you mix it up… it’s gonna be madness.
> 
> MADNESS.



Too late: Vegan Food Portland Oregon | Vegan Brunch | Off The Griddle Portland Oregon

There is also a great poutine place in Portland: Potato Champion


----------



## niklinna

Best incoherent food I've had the pleasure of eating.


----------



## Malmuria

By “waffle” you mean open-faced sandwich, right?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

niklinna said:


> Best incoherent food I've had the pleasure of eating.




Admittedly, I’m usually pretty incoherent when I’m eating waffles and fries and gravy …. Mmmmm.

Now that’s a 3am garbage plate!


----------



## payn

Waffle pizza?


----------



## niklinna

Malmuria said:


> By “waffle” you mean open-faced sandwich, right?


----------



## Ryujin

niklinna said:


> Too late: Vegan Food Portland Oregon | Vegan Brunch | Off The Griddle Portland Oregon
> 
> There is also a great poutine place in Portland: Potato Champion



I would argue that there are no actual good poutine places outside of Quebec.


----------



## niklinna

Ryujin said:


> I would argue that there are no actual good poutine places outside of Quebec.



Quebec is so much farther away though. (Also something tells me you'd be horrified at Potato Champion's menu.)


----------



## Parmandur

Reality has never betrayed me. I present to you, the Chicken and waffles pizza:


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> Reality has never betrayed me. I present to you, the Chicken and waffles pizza:
> 
> View attachment 250317



Put some hash browns & gravy on that and you'll be all set!


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> I would argue that there are no actual good poutine places outside of Quebec.



I can at least attest that Midwest America does not have any good poutine.


----------



## payn

The solution is here. Waffle quadrants that allow everyone to get their pizza order in.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Parmandur said:


> Reality has never betrayed me. I present to you, the Chicken and waffles pizza:
> 
> View attachment 250317


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


>



Chicken and waffles is the best, don't knock it till you've tried it.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Parmandur said:


> Chicken and waffles is the best, don't knock it till you've tried it.



I have. Same reaction.


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> Chicken and waffles is the best, don't knock it till you've tried it.



Pretty much the State Dish throughout much of the South.


----------



## Cadence

My mom is a fan of the Alaskan Waffle (Belgian Waffle spliced with ice-cream sundae).


----------



## BookTenTiger

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, pineapple is a _technical term_ that also means green olives.
> 
> It’s obvious, right?



This reminds me of when my niece was able to name colors, but would say it like this:

Me, holding an orange crayon: What color is this crayon?

Her: Green!

Me, holding same crayon: What color is this crayon?

Her: Orange!

Me, holding a pink crayon: What color is this crayon?

Her: Green!

Me: What color is this crayon?

Her: Pink!

In that stage of language development, every color fit into the category of green, within which were all the other colors.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> The solution is here. Waffle quadrants that allow everyone to get their pizza order in.




One pizza cannot support four different topping agendas. 

The solution is very simple- you get one topping. ONE. Per pizza. If you want more than one? NEIN. Someone will smack that poorly designed slice out of your pie hole.


----------



## niklinna

Snarf Zagyg said:


> One pizza cannot support four different topping agendas.
> 
> The solution is very simple- you get one topping. ONE. Per pizza. If you want more than one? NEIN. Someone will smack that poorly designed slice out of your pie hole.



What if you take two slices of pizzas with different toppings and lay one atop the other?









						Buenos Aires' unusual pizza topping
					

A century ago, Italian immigrants in Argentina's capital gave pizza an unusual new topping: a chickpea pancake known as "fainá".




					www.bbc.com


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I have. Same reaction.



How unfortunate. The key, I find, is to make sure that the syrup and the hot sauce mix for maximum impact.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> How unfortunate. The key, I find, is to make sure that the syrup and the hot sauce mix for maximum impact.



Or you could try this









						Fried chicken-stuffed waffle cones made to grab-and-go can be found at Gansevoort Market
					

Fork-free comfort food topped with flavorful sauces




					abc7ny.com
				




Add ice cream for an Alaskan!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

niklinna said:


> What if you take two slices of pizzas with different toppings and lay one atop the other?
> ]




Well, that’s just a weird calzone!

And by calzone, I mean open-faced waffle.


----------



## niklinna

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, that’s just a weird calzone!
> 
> And by calzone, I mean open-faced waffle.



A purist-for-system waffle, or a High Concept waffle?


----------



## Malmuria

Parmandur said:


> Reality has never betrayed me. I present to you, the Chicken and waffles pizza:
> 
> View attachment 250317



That’s disgusting*

*No offense.  That’s just my neutral observation.  You see, a lot of people who only eat these kinds of pizzas don’t know there are other kinds, and they tend to take objective descriptions like “disgusting” as insulting, because they are overly emotional.  Unlike me, I’m just doing rational analysis.


----------



## Hussar

I MISS POUTINE!!


----------



## niklinna

Hussar said:


> I MISS POUTINE!!



I smell a business opportunity...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> I MISS POUTINE!!




_What we got here is some kinda ramen/poutine hybrid!_


----------



## South by Southwest

Malmuria said:


> That’s disgusting*
> 
> *No offense.  That’s just my neutral observation.  You see, a lot of people who only eat these kinds of pizzas don’t know there are other kinds, and they tend to take objective descriptions like “disgusting” as insulting, because they are overly emotional.  Unlike me, I’m just doing rational analysis.



In "Existentialism Is a Humanism," Jean-Paul Sartre wrote the following:


			
				Moody French Intellectual Guy said:
			
		

> Those who hide from this total freedom, in a guise of solemnity or with deterministic excuses, I shall call *cowards.* Others, who try to show that their existence is necessary, when it is merely an accident of the appearance of the human race on earth – I shall call *scum.*



He insisted he used both these terms--"coward" and "scum"--in a neutral, purely descriptive sense. Funny thing, though: absolutely no one believed him.


----------



## niklinna

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _What we got here is some kinda ramen/poutine hybrid!_



You think you're joking? You're not joking.









						Ramen Poutine Exists and Has Us All Drooling
					

French Canada meets Japan and the results are out of this world.




					www.delish.com


----------



## Parmandur

Malmuria said:


> That’s disgusting*
> 
> *No offense.  That’s just my neutral observation.  You see, a lot of people who only eat these kinds of pizzas don’t know there are other kinds, and they tend to take objective descriptions like “disgusting” as insulting, because they are overly emotional.  Unlike me, I’m just doing rational analysis.



That's some quality not-posting.


----------



## Parmandur

@AcererakTriple6  I ain't kidding, maple syrup plus Tabasco = crazy delicious.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> In "Existentialism Is a Humanism," Jean-Paul Sartre wrote the following:
> 
> He insisted he used both these terms, "coward" and "scum," in a neutral, purely descriptive sense. Funny thing, though: absolutely no one believed him.



Oh, Sarte.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> @AcererakTriple6  I ain't kidding, maple syrup plus Tabasco = crazy delicious.



Well now that's just runny BBQ sauce. But still, it does sound delicious!


----------



## Cadence

Malmuria said:


> That’s disgusting*
> 
> *No offense.  That’s just my neutral observation.  You see, a lot of people who only eat these kinds of pizzas don’t know there are other kinds, and they tend to take objective descriptions like “disgusting” as insulting, because they are overly emotional.  Unlike me, I’m just doing rational analysis.




"Disgusting" is a really loaded word that will put people off!

You should pick a neutral word that notes it is a mixture of many things, but making no judgement, and implying no judgement about it.  I'm sure there's one around somewhere...


----------



## South by Southwest

What a fun night this turned into...


----------



## Cadence

South by Southwest said:


> What a fun night this turned into...



Incoherent or hybrid?


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> Incoherent or hybrid?



Oh, both; clearly both and plenty of them. Sort of like Parmandur observed about Tabasco and maple syrup.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "Disgusting" is a really loaded word that will put people off!
> 
> You should pick a neutral word that notes it is a mixture of many things, but making no judgement, and implying no judgement about it.  I'm sure there's one around somewhere...





Hey!
I do not like your college bard
I do not like you in my yard
I do not like you in my game
I do not like your songs- so lame
I do not like your average life
I hope you do not take a wife
I hope you don't decide breed
Cause that's more bards we do not need

I do not think you‘re magical
I hate you and your fancy school
You're wrong about the martial class
I hope they kick your scrawny bard a—
I do not like you in this game of ours
I'd rather live on planet Mars
And die from lack of oxygen
Than see you breathe the air of other men
Hey!


_But this is really a neutral description of bards. Part of my opening essay called “Snarf Zagyg is totally the most neutral person on bards.“. _


----------



## trappedslider

I wonder if the mods can just ban a person from a whole category of topics like TV  shows


----------



## Hussar

niklinna said:


> I smell a business opportunity...




I actually looked into this. Problem is the price of cheese here means I’d have to charge about fifteen bucks a plate just to break even.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> One pizza cannot support four different topping agendas.
> 
> The solution is very simple- you get one topping. ONE. Per pizza. If you want more than one? NEIN. Someone will smack that poorly designed slice out of your pie hole.



We dont take kindly to Nazis around my parts.


----------



## payn

Ok, its not funny anymore. Please EN World folks put character limits on thread titles!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Ok, its not funny anymore. Please EN World folks put character limits on thread titles!




Oh, I don't know.

_I still think it's funny. _

You have to admire someone who is either that committed to a bit, or ... well, yeah.



ETA- imagine if they knew about polls ....


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Oh, I don't know.
> 
> _I still think it's funny. _
> 
> You have to admire someone who is either that committed to a bit, or ... well, yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> ETA- imagine if they knew about polls ....



Please. Do not poke the bear.


----------



## Cadence

At least it explains why the pepperoni lovers don't get any of the good stuff, so there's that.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Oh, I don't know.
> 
> _I still think it's funny. _
> 
> You have to admire someone who is either that committed to a bit, or ... well, yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> ETA- imagine if they knew about polls ....



_Should the retired chaotic good king sign an extended contract for food delivery service in a country thats kind of poor and would that effect his chaotic status?
A. Yes, because his sister in law's cousin's basketball coach's student's mother works for the service and can get a discount.
B. No, because the prince really likes being chaotic and just couldnt live with a non-chaotic father king in a somewhat poor country
C. Both, for some reason being chaotic allows the king to make crazy decisions which is why the country is a little bit poor but also loves his son, which makes no sense?
D. Neither can anyone remember what the thread topic actually is? Oh right its about a chaotic king ordering food with poor people and something about a contract but who can keep it straight anymore?_


----------



## AbdulAlhazred

I didn't comment in the "Explain RPG theory without using Jargon" thread. I will say no more, but frankly I'd rather be a Pepperoni Lover! hahahaha. Oh, and lets put Maple Syrup AND Tabasco on it too! With a side of Ramen Poutine. Mmmmmmmmm. Yes!


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> _Should the retired chaotic good king sign an extended contract for food delivery service in a country thats kind of poor and would that effect his chaotic status?
> A. Yes, because his sister in law's cousin's basketball coach's student's mother works for the service and can get a discount.
> B. No, because the prince really likes being chaotic and just couldnt live with a non-chaotic father king in a somewhat poor country
> C. Both, for some reason being chaotic allows the king to make crazy decisions which is why the country is a little bit poor but also loves his son, which makes no sense?
> D. Neither can anyone remember what the thread topic actually is? Oh right its about a chaotic king ordering food with poor people and something about a contract but who can keep it straight anymore?_



E. Yes, because contract, schmontract.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Today's thought on certain topics that keep re-occurring.







_Everything in life can be learned from the movie Cocktail. _


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Today's thought on certain topics that keep re-occurring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Everything in life can be learned from the movie Cocktail. _



but...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> but...









EVERYWHERE YOU GO .... TYPOLOGIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Gradine

It's always annoying when an interesting topic is started in what is very clearly not good faith.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> It's always annoying when an interesting topic is started in what is very clearly not good faith.




So .... what you're saying is that this proposed thread would be annoying- 

*Explain to me, like I'm a slightly dumb golden retriever, why you think Bards don't deserve to die?*

What if it I made it with the following title?


*Should The Pcs kill All the Bards in Town, even though Bards might marry an Angel Lord's Nephew's Son?, or should Pcs kill all the Bards and also the Angel Lord's Nephew's son, who is also bard? *


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So .... what you're saying is that this proposed thread would be annoying-
> 
> *Explain to me, like I'm a slightly dumb golden retriever, why you think Bards don't deserve to die?*
> 
> What if it I made it with the following title?
> 
> 
> *Should The Pcs kill All the Bards in Town, even though Bards might marry an Angel Lord's Nephew's Son?, or should Pcs kill all the Bards and also the Angel Lord's Nephew's son, who is also bard? *


----------



## RealAlHazred

Okay, here's how I play the game: [detailed, simple explanation using biased language].

Now, I'm not saying everything else is badwrongfun, but here's why everybody else's game needs to die in a fire: [barely disguised rant].


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Okay, here's how I play the game: [detailed, simple explanation using biased language].
> 
> Now, I'm not saying everything else is badwrongfun, but here's why everybody else's game needs to die in a fire: [barely disguised rant].



Ah, the Internet.


----------



## Cadence

That thing where someone posts a piece of jargon and you would want it developed into an emoji... except for that part where you actually don't want to make the mods' lives harder.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So .... what you're saying is that this proposed thread would be annoying-
> 
> *Explain to me, like I'm a slightly dumb golden retriever, why you think Bards don't deserve to die?*
> 
> What if it I made it with the following title?
> 
> 
> *Should The Pcs kill All the Bards in Town, even though Bards might marry an Angel Lord's Nephew's Son?, or should Pcs kill all the Bards and also the Angel Lord's Nephew's son, who is also bard? *



Perchance, though I was speaking of a different genre of thread entirely


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> That thing where someone posts a piece of jargon and you would want it developed into an emoji... except for that part where you actually don't want to make the mods' lives harder.



The mods must be having an interesting few days around here right now.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So .... what you're saying is that this proposed thread would be annoying-
> 
> *Explain to me, like I'm a slightly dumb golden retriever, why you think Bards don't deserve to die?*



Bark bark...bark bark bark grr bark!


----------



## Deset Gled

Wow.  Just, wow.


----------



## Malmuria

Looking forward to the next wotc release so we can get back to talking about less controversial topics, like race and bioessentialism in dnd


----------



## Malmuria

I’m beginning to doubt whether I understand the English language.


----------



## Parmandur

Malmuria said:


> I’m beginning to doubt whether I understand the English language.



Does anyone?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> Looking forward to the next wotc release so we can get back to talking about less controversial topics, like race and bioessentialism in dnd




Eh, just wait for nuTSR to do something stupid. That tends to unite people.

Bound to happen within the next hour or two.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> Does anyone?



When you say "anyone", what exactly do you mean by that?


----------



## Cadence

niklinna said:


> When you say "anyone", what exactly do you mean by that?



Well, it certainly isn't referring to a person who is "someone".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Well, it certainly isn't referring to a person who is "someone".




It's better to be someone, than anyone.


----------



## Cadence

Now I kind of want to make (or at least have someone make) a theory using these as part of the jargon (well, not number 4, but maybe that can be worked into the theme for the exemplar game).


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> Now I kind of want to make (or at least have someone make) a theory using these as part of the jargon (well, not number 4, but maybe that can be worked into the theme for the exemplar game).
> 
> View attachment 250348




If you don't give #4 equal status, I vow to show up in every thread where your theory is mentioned to complain about it.


----------



## Cadence

I had no idea that "GET A ROOM!" was a registered trademark.


----------



## niklinna

Cadence said:


> I had no idea that "GET A ROOM!" was a registered trademark.



It is? For what!?

Meltable vegan cheese?
Gardening tools?
Marital aids?
Water parks?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Now I kind of want to make (or at least have someone make) a theory using these as part of the jargon (well, not number 4, but maybe that can be worked into the theme for the exemplar game).
> 
> View attachment 250348




Ramism:  Advancing, or purporting to advance, a Ramen-noodle first agenda. See also, the "Potuine/Ramen" hypothesi".

Adamism: The requirement to be "FIRST!!!11!!!!" in all theory discussions.

Agamist: The abiding belief that there are no games, only suffering. And all suffering can be attributed to having too many toppings on your pizza. 

Amish: Playing TTRPGs very drunkenly, except with more booze and less game. Ex. "I... uh... knew sumpin' was amish with ... uh.... _hic_ that orc." Not to be confused with Amish, which is playing games without electricity. 

Amiss: When a roll succeeds. Ex. When I hit the opponent, that was amiss.  (This is an example of why I know jargon, and you don't.)


----------



## Cadence

niklinna said:


> It is? For what!?
> 
> Meltable vegan cheese?
> Gardening tools?
> Marital aids?
> Water parks?




Boringly, a  hotel reservation web-site.  Which doesn't quite have the immediacy I usually see the phrase used in.


----------



## Cadence

Holy crap those are some big hands!


----------



## Parmandur

niklinna said:


> When you say "anyone", what exactly do you mean by that?



Como??


----------



## payn

I cant wait until the recent batch of hot topics to be over. I bailed awhile ago and keep seeing folks fleeing here while patting out flames on their arms lol.


----------



## Deset Gled

payn said:


> I cant wait until the recent batch of hot topics to be over.




Hot Topic?  I used to shop there all the time!






(I may have owned another version of this shirt.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Hot Topic?  I used to shop there all the time!




Obligatory-


----------



## Malmuria

Ugh are we talking about hot topic?  I haven’t thought about them since the early 2000s


----------



## Malmuria

“He may be politically incorrect, but he’s saying something a lot of people agree with.”  

Where have I heard that before?


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> I cant wait until the recent batch of hot topics to be over. I bailed awhile ago and keep seeing folks fleeing here while patting out flames on their arms lol.


----------



## Asisreo

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ramism:  Advancing, or purporting to advance, a Ramen-noodle first agenda. See also, the "Potuine/Ramen" hypothesi".
> 
> Adamism: The requirement to be "FIRST!!!11!!!!" in all theory discussions.
> 
> Agamist: The abiding belief that there are no games, only suffering. And all suffering can be attributed to having too many toppings on your pizza.
> 
> Amish: Playing TTRPGs very drunkenly, except with more booze and less game. Ex. "I... uh... knew sumpin' was amish with ... uh.... _hic_ that orc." Not to be confused with Amish, which is playing games without electricity.
> 
> Amiss: When a roll succeeds. Ex. When I hit the opponent, that was amiss.  (This is an example of why I know jargon, and you don't.)



Snarf just won every game ever. Pure genius


----------



## RealAlHazred

Look, I'm not saying you can't make up new words. That's how new words show up! They aren't received carved on stone tablets from the Word Gods (... uh, TM Microsoft, I guess). You can make up a word, it's fine.

What you can't do, is use a word to mean something completely different! That's... that's not what the word means! You're not Bill Clinton and we're not debating the word "is," this isn't 1998, we've done that, there isn't enough coffee to make me have those conversations again!


----------



## Cadence

Of all the posts, _that_ is the one you single out!?!


----------



## dragoner

Trolls gonna troll, its just the way peeps seem to be going "berserk" or something ...


----------



## Gradine

Oh good, we've achieved Pepe memes.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

J.Quondam said:


> View attachment 250357



No, I don't remember when talking about D&D was actually fun. At least, none of the past 4 years I've been doing it on the internet have been particularly "fun".


----------



## dragoner

Gradine said:


> Oh good, we've achieved Pepe memes.



They hit the IL with a quickness.


----------



## Gradine

This is what I was talking about earlier, btw.


----------



## trappedslider

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Look, I'm not saying you can't make up new words. That's how new words show up! They aren't received carved on stone tablets from the Word Gods (... uh, TM Microsoft, I guess). You can make up a word, it's fine.


----------



## niklinna

dragoner said:


> They hit the IL with a quickness.



What's an "IL"? I'm not down with all this fancy jargon.


----------



## dragoner

niklinna said:


> What's an "IL"? I'm not down with all this fancy jargon.



Ignore List


----------



## J.Quondam

AcererakTriple6 said:


> No, I don't remember when talking about D&D was actually fun. At least, none of the past 4 years I've been doing it on the internet have been particularly "fun".



That's too bad, but I think perfectly true, too. 
It's probably just my rose-tinted_ specs of nostalgia_, but I recall pre-Edition War chit-chat being a bit more lighthearted overall.* There were flare ups, of course, but for the most part there wasn't so much industry speculation, lawsuit ogling, or pedantic trollery and outright threadcrapping. There seemed to be a lot more creative brainstorming threads, story hours, PEACHing, fleshing out of adventure/ campaign ideas, rules and edition-conversion questions, and so forth. 
That said, imo two very positive evolutions in discussions since then have been frank talk about gaming culture and inclusiveness; and history of the game beyond what Gary Gygax posted here and there.

Stuff changes, I suppose; and the experience of newer-comers to hobby-talk will certainly be different to older gamers; and it will be different for new gamers still.

_* hat of d02, notwithstanding._


----------



## niklinna

I'm just glad this discussion hasn't actually gone to the level of linguistic theory. I'd have to bring up...Chomsky.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Has there literally ever been a thread discussing alignment where everyone came to an agreement about what it actually meant and what each of the alignments are actually representing? Because if discussions like that exist, I've never seen one. 

A major reason I don't use alignment is that no one can agree on what the hell it even means.


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> No, I don't remember when talking about D&D was actually fun. At least, none of the past 4 years I've been doing it on the internet have been particularly "fun".



Well it was kind of fun when we had to do it in hushed whispers, behind closed doors, because of being accused of following Da Debil on one side, and being wedgied by the jocks on the other.


----------



## dragoner

What the heck is alignment language though? Somebody was smoking with that one.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> What the heck is alignment language though? Somebody was smoking with that one.



A secret language, known only to others of your alignment, that you never speak for fear of giving away your alignment? Yeah, never used it.


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Has there literally ever been a thread discussing alignment where everyone came to an agreement about what it actually meant and what each of the alignments are actually representing? Because if discussions like that exist, I've never seen one. Which is a major reason why I don't use alignment.



Online? No, unfortunately I have not really seen it either. I do like alignment and have not had issues at my table since high school. My gamer friends and I have a love of philosophy and alignment feeds into that. I know many gamers take things literally, and it makes it a very incendiary topic. Likely, its for the best that its really just a placeholder at this point and not a stronger element in D&D.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> A secret language, known only to others of your alignment, that you never speak for fear of giving away your alignment? Yeah, never used it.



It works with the whole cosmology of D&D, but yeah, it's weird.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Has there literally ever been a thread discussing alignment where everyone came to an agreement about what it actually meant and what each of the alignments are actually representing? Because if discussions like that exist, I've never seen one.
> 
> A major reason I don't use alignment is that no one can agree on what the hell it even means.



Alignment is Chaotic Neutral.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> Alignment is Chaotic Neutral.



So meta


----------



## Parmandur

J.Quondam said:


> for the most part there wasn't so much industry speculation, lawsuit ogling, or pedantic trollery and outright threadcrapping.



I mean, that sounds fun to me?

Part of it is maybe that 5E has made build discussions rather prosaic: everyone can pretty much figure out how to build a particular theme, and there are many points to fiddle with.

And storyline or distance play have been overtaken by online streaming. Why play by post when we can play over Twitch and build a ranbase, sort of thing?


----------



## J.Quondam

Parmandur said:


> I mean, that sounds fun to me?
> 
> Part of it is maybe that 5E has made build discussions rather prosaic: everyone can pretty much figure out how to build a particular theme, and there are many points to fiddle with.
> 
> And storyline or distance play have been overtaken by online streaming. Why play by post when we can play over Twitch and build a ranbase, sort of thing?



Well, yeah. That's what I mean by "stuff changes."


----------



## Cadence

dragoner said:


> It works with the whole cosmology of D&D, but yeah, it's weird.




I...    the idea of having it fit with the language of the nine outer planes just struck me for the first time ever.   (Of course, I don't use alignment or the standard out planes anymore, but anyway, I'm disappointed it never crossed my brain before).


----------



## Parmandur

dragoner said:


> What the heck is alignment language though? Somebody was smoking with that one.





Ryujin said:


> A secret language, known only to others of your alignment, that you never speak for fear of giving away your alignment? Yeah, never used it.



Gygax's original idea was, first of all, that there were only three alignments: Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic. And the idea was that those three Alignments would be morally Grey Religous groupings. So Lawful people would speak psuedo-Latin in their pseudo-Catholic religous context, Neutral people would speak pseudo-Celtic in their Druidic religous context, and I'm not sure I want to know what he thought would be emblematic of the Chaos religous tradition but I have my suspicions.

Then he expanded to nine alignments, divorced religion from Alignment and still kept it for some reason.

Basically, AD&D is bonkers.


----------



## Ryujin

Parmandur said:


> Alignment is Chaotic Neutral.


----------



## Ryujin

Parmandur said:


> Gygax's original idea was, first of all, that there were only three alignments: Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic. And the idea was that those three Alignments would be morally Grey Religous groupings. So Lawful people would speak psuedo-Latin in their pseudo-Catholic religous context, Neutral people would speak pseudo-Celtic in their Druidic religous context, and I'm not sure I want to know what he thought would be emblematic of the Chaos religous tradition but I have my suspicions.
> 
> Then he expanded to nine alignments, divorced religion from Alignment and still kept it for some reason.
> 
> Basically, AD&D is bonkers.



As alignments go, I tend to prefer the ones in Palladium games. For D&D, as long as the players are largely acting in a way that I can tie to their stated alignments, I'm OK with it.


----------



## Parmandur

Ryujin said:


> As alignments go, I tend to prefer the ones in Palladium games. For D&D, as long as the players are largely acting in a way that I can tie to their stated alignments, I'm OK with it.



I like it as used in 5E: a loose acting prompt.


----------



## Cadence

I got neutral good.  









						Can We Guess Your Moral Alignment Based On Your Taste In Pizza?
					

Pineapple on pizza = chaotic evil.




					www.buzzfeed.com


----------



## dragoner

Cadence said:


> I...    the idea of having it fit with the language of the nine outer planes just struck me for the first time ever.   (Of course, I don't use alignment or the standard out planes anymore, but anyway, I'm disappointed it never crossed my brain before).



As Parmandur said, I use it as prompt, not seriously. Though to think of how such a strange, and intricate cosmology grew, it's impressive, though probably they were high, knowing the 70's.


----------



## Parmandur

dragoner said:


> As Parmandur said, I use it as prompt, not seriously. Though to think of how such a strange, and intricate cosmology grew, it's impressive, though probably they were high, knowing the 70's.



Gygax had a substance abuse issue when he went to Hollywood, but I don't think that applied to when he was making the really gnarly stuff in the 70's.

Probably he was trying to recreate the cosmological oddness of real Medieval speculations.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I got neutral good.




Lawful Evil, "Dominator" 
Lawful Evil individuals consider their alignment to be the best because it combines honor with a dedicated self-interest. However, Lawful Evil is the most dangerous alignment because it *represents methodical, intentional, and frequently successful, evil doings.*


Yep. Sounds about right for me.


----------



## niklinna

Cadence said:


> I got neutral good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can We Guess Your Moral Alignment Based On Your Taste In Pizza?
> 
> 
> Pineapple on pizza = chaotic evil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.buzzfeed.com



I got, "I don't eat franchise pizza so I can't take this quiz."

Edit: Wow, like most of those questions/pictures, my answer is "Never any of those."


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Lawful Evil, "Dominator"
> Lawful Evil individuals consider their alignment to be the best because it combines honor with a dedicated self-interest. However, Lawful Evil is the most dangerous alignment because it *represents methodical, intentional, and frequently successful, evil doings.*
> 
> 
> Yep. Sounds about right for me.



It also explains your hatred of those bastions of freedom; The Bards.


----------



## dragoner

Parmandur said:


> Gygax had a substance abuse issue when he went to Hollywood, but I don't think that applied to when he was making the really gnarly stuff in the 70's.
> 
> Probably he was trying to recreate the cosmological oddness of real Medieval speculations.



I get the image in my head of them saying "Dude, check it out!" As most of the D&D people I knew from the 70's, were also SCA types, pseudo-hippies. I think later, we more nerdy types took it over. It is oddly mechanistic view, it does sort of match with a lot of medieval stuff, though I am not an expert, so I don't really know.


----------



## Cadence

niklinna said:


> I got, "I don't eat franchise pizza so I can't take this quiz."



It doesn't actually ask if you eat it.  So could pick based on ad quality, politics, or not being near you so you don't have to deal with it?


----------



## CleverNickName

It's a running joke at my table that "Chaotic Neutral" is the alignment that players should select when they want their character to be targeted by enemy attacks more often than the others.  It's not entirely true, but I don't bother to correct them.


----------



## dragoner

I remember someone stating someone's character was "chaotic everywhere" because even if they were in another room, and someone else found a chest, they would be there to open it.


----------



## Parmandur

dragoner said:


> I get the image in my head of them saying "Dude, check it out!" As most of the D&D people I knew from the 70's, were also SCA types, pseudo-hippies. I think later, we more nerdy types took it over. It is oddly mechanistic view, it does sort of match with a lot of medieval stuff, though I am not an expert, so I don't really know.



The Lake Geneva people seem to have been fairly square, from what I have learned over the years, really not hippies in the slightest.

I am an expert on Medieval cosmological stuff, and it is way weirder than the AD&D DMG.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> I got neutral good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can We Guess Your Moral Alignment Based On Your Taste In Pizza?
> 
> 
> Pineapple on pizza = chaotic evil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.buzzfeed.com



Yeah, I got Chaotic Evil. I think you automatically get that if you choose Pineapple as your favorite topping.


----------



## Parmandur

Clearly BS, since it says that I am Neutral Good:

Neutral Good means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, a Neutral Good alignment can be dangerous when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

dragoner said:


> As Parmandur said, I use it as prompt, not seriously. Though to think of how such a strange, and intricate cosmology grew, it's impressive, though probably they were high, knowing the 70's.



I will say, even though I don't like alignment, my favorite take on it is Matt Colville's explanation of it.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I will say, even though I don't like alignment, my favorite take on it is Matt Colville's explanation of it.



For me, it is a very helpful prompt to help with acting improv. If you look at, say, the royal court of the Dwendalian Empire in the Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, knowing that one royal advisor is Neutral Good while another is Lawful Evil can really help with knowing how to run then in response to player actions.


----------



## dragoner

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I will say, even though I don't like alignment, my favorite take on it is Matt Colville's explanation of it.





> I did the pizza quiz:
> Neutral Good, "Benefactor"
> Neutral Good means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, a Neutral Good alignment can be dangerous when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.



With alignment, I will always respect it for teaching me the term "diametrically opposed" nevertheless, having to attack another alignment like rabid weasels because of it, is not how I play, even though some do? What is Colville's take?


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> I got neutral good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can We Guess Your Moral Alignment Based On Your Taste In Pizza?
> 
> 
> Pineapple on pizza = chaotic evil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.buzzfeed.com



I got Chaotic Neutral, which makes all the sense even if there was never any answers for anchovies or kimchi.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

dragoner said:


> What is Colville's take?



This is his video on the Law vs. Chaos topic that I was referring to:


----------



## CleverNickName

So I'm apparently Lawful Good, even though I selected pineapple as a pizza topping.  So all of these claims of "Pineapple = Evil" are, as I have long suspected, complete rubbish.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> So I'm apparently Lawful Good, even though I selected pineapple as a pizza topping.  So all of these claims of "Pineapple = Evil" are, as I have long suspected, complete rubbish.




You misunderstand. Snarf = Evil. 

Pineapple = Bad.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> So I'm apparently Lawful Good, even though I selected pineapple as a pizza topping.  So all of these claims of "Pineapple = Evil" are, as I have long suspected, complete rubbish.



Would a chaotic evil or chaotic neutral person tell the truth about the quiz result?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Would a chaotic evil or chaotic neutral person tell the truth about the quiz result?



If they feel like it.


----------



## dragoner

AcererakTriple6 said:


> This is his video on the Law vs. Chaos topic that I was referring to:



Wilderness vs roads is as good a description; when I was younger I viewed life as chaos vs the order of death, sort of similar to the novels he was describing.


----------



## Davies

All discussions about alignment are utterly pointless, because all thinking beings have, whether they realize it or not, developed or chosen a perspective on the subject from which they argue. It is not possible for anyone to offer an objective perspective about the matter, since they will invariably describe their own values in a preferential manner when compared to those values which they oppose.

Of course, I would say that, having gotten a "true neutral" result on that pizza thing.


----------



## Cadence

"That fantasy/sci-fi/detective/whatever book you're reading isn't the kind of story I like" feels super different from "That fantasy/sci-fi/detective/whatever book you're reading isn't even a story."


----------



## Malmuria

Ok, I’m just gonna back out slowly… ::clicks unwatch::


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> Ok, I’m just gonna back out slowly… ::clicks unwatch::



Oh, whatever y'all just keep going back in


----------



## Malmuria

payn said:


> Oh, whatever y'all just keep going back in





			https://media.giphy.com/media/u6EiPNT9dLDrU7ZQuF/giphy-downsized-large.gif


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> https://media.giphy.com/media/u6EiPNT9dLDrU7ZQuF/giphy-downsized-large.gif



Indeed;


----------



## Cadence

Unhelpful comment.  (Thanks for the laughing face before I changed it though!)


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> https://media.giphy.com/media/u6EiPNT9dLDrU7ZQuF/giphy-downsized-large.gif



Also, they need somebody to mimic Little Stephen mimicking Pacino so this joke can go three deep. Has to happen!


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Also, they need somebody to mimic Little Stephen mimicking Pacino so this joke can go three deep. Has to happen!


----------



## Cadence

Specialties are a thing for a reason.  Being great at making pizza doesn't mean anything about being competent at baking or making sushi, let alone being great at those too.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Cadence said:


> Specialties are a thing for a reason.  Being great at making pizza doesn't mean anything about being competent at baking or making sushi, let alone being great at those too.



Isn't sushi just pizza with a rice "dough" and raw fish topping?


----------



## niklinna

BookTenTiger said:


> Isn't sushi just pizza with a rice "dough" and raw fish topping?



Now you've got me craving pineapple sushi.


----------



## Cadence

BookTenTiger said:


> Isn't sushi just pizza with a rice "dough" and raw fish topping?



Sushi is a wasabi delivery system.  Pizza is a cheese and marinara delivery system.  USPS is a mail delivery system (although they're scaring me with the package I have coming from Germany not showing up yet in the tracking system...).


----------



## billd91

Kinda funny how long time lurkers are coaxed into posting to defend *all* the wrong people and things.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Cadence said:


> Sushi is a wasabi delivery system.  Pizza is a cheese and marinara delivery system.  USPS is a mail delivery system (although they're scaring me with the package I have coming from Germany not showing up yet in the tracking system...).



Isn't mail just pizza where the paper is the dough and the ink words are the toppings?????


----------



## Hussar

Nope.  You almost tricked me.  I'm not going to fall for that.  I made my damn saving throw this time!


----------



## Mannahnin

dragoner said:


> I remember someone stating someone's character was "chaotic everywhere" because even if they were in another room, and someone else found a chest, they would be there to open it.



This is directly from Dragon issue 124's "Front-End Alignments" article about types of players.



> Chaotic Everywhere (CEv): These players cause heartache to many a DM and player alike. A Chaotic Everywhere tries to be everywhere and do  everything at once. His PC is usually the first person in a room when treasure is discovered and the first out of a room if trouble occurs. Often, such a player is impatient and is nearly always a source of interruption  especially when the rest of the party is doing something or the DM is describing more than one object in a room.
> Example: A group of adventurers containing a Chaotic Everywhere character comes upon a room that is set up like a chemist's lab. The Chaotic Everywhere moves all over the room, showing up whenever another adventurer finds something of interest. The person then tries to do anything in the room that someone else was planning to do. If the character in question creates an explosion with some chemicals, the player claims no damage was taken because he ran at the first sign of trouble.
> The best way to get revenge on this type of person is to get the whole party to threaten the Chaotic Everywheres character with death, or for a DM to design an enclosed room that floods when entered, making sure that the Chaotic Chaotic Everywhere is the only one to go in.


----------



## Cadence

I will not make analogies in real time, I will not make analogies in real time, I will....


----------



## dragoner

Mannahnin said:


> This is directly from Dragon issue 124's "Front-End Alignments" article about types of players.



Nice, so it is actually a thing, thanks!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I will not make analogies in real time, I will not make analogies in real time, I will....




Making an analogy in real time is like inviting a known Bard-lover to play D&D.


----------



## Retreater

I haven't been posting much since I started making an effort to stay more positive. 
I wish there were something more positive going on in the hobby that I was interacting with that I could discuss. 
Oh well, hope everyone's having a good day.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Making an analogy in real time is like inviting a known Bard-lover to play D&D.


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> I haven't been posting much since I started making an effort to stay more positive.
> I wish there were something more positive going on in the hobby that I was interacting with that I could discuss.
> Oh well, hope everyone's having a good day.



Sometimes _you_ gotta be the positive source.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> I got neutral good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can We Guess Your Moral Alignment Based On Your Taste In Pizza?
> 
> 
> Pineapple on pizza = chaotic evil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.buzzfeed.com



I got 404, Alignment Not Found. I didn't even know that was an alignment! Man, D&D Next is so different!


----------



## Cadence

dragoner said:


> I remember someone stating someone's character was "chaotic everywhere" because even if they were in another room, and someone else found a chest, they would be there to open it.



I guess one way to allow the CEverywhere character to be the protagonist they want to be is to just not have geography or time be a thing.


----------



## Mannahnin

I got a picture of John Mulany and: 
Neutral Good, "Benefactor"
Neutral Good means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, a Neutral Good alignment can be dangerous when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> I got a picture of John Mulany and:
> Neutral Good, "Benefactor"
> Neutral Good means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, a Neutral Good alignment _can be dangerous when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable._




That's .... in interesting statement ... for Buzzfeed to put in the NG description.

It's almost like there is some underlying ethos behind it.


----------



## Ryujin

Mannahnin said:


> This is directly from Dragon issue 124's "Front-End Alignments" article about types of players.



Easier way. If the Chaotic Everywhere character doesn't wait to finish hearing the description of the room and then acts on what he just heard, without reason, then that's all he's seen in the room.

DM - You open the door to a large room. There are torches in wall sconces along the pillars, that are supporting the roof. In an alcove between these pillars is a chest that is...."

CEv - I go to the chest and attempt to open it!"

DM - ... and are immediately are attacked by the four guards who are standing in pairs, on either side of the chest, holding long spears. They get attacks of opportunity as you approach.

CEv - But I wouldn't have done that, if I saw them!

DM - And you didn't see them, because you got too excited over the chest.


----------



## Ryujin

Mannahnin said:


> I got a picture of John Mulany and:
> Neutral Good, "Benefactor"
> Neutral Good means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, a Neutral Good alignment can be dangerous when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.



Same. Favourite topping = pinepple.


----------



## J.Quondam

billd91 said:


> Kinda funny how long time lurkers are coaxed into posting to defend *all* the wrong people and things.



I sometimes wonder where they originate. Are accounts like that carefully created and stored away in some nutter's bunker in a cool dry place for future use? Or are they more like stuff that gets pushed to the back of the fridge and only later discovered by accident in all their foul, oozing fungal glory?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> I sometimes wonder where they originate. Are accounts like that carefully created and stored away in some nutter's bunker in a cool dry place for future use? Or are they more like stuff that gets pushed to the back of the fridge and only later discovered by accident in all their foul, oozing fungal glory?




"In fifteen years, Ima gonna need to post some pro-Nazi stuff!" 

That just seems ... really effortful for the minimal payback.


----------



## CleverNickName

I've fallen down a rabbit hole with Renown.  Normally this is the time where I would start digging my way out, but it's kind of cozy down here.  I think I might stay a while.

I've got a number of Factions in my upcoming campaign that the party can ally themselves with--do little favors, make some friends, that sort of thing.  Complete that Bounty Quest, +1 renown with the Town Guard.  Find that stolen relic, +1 renown with The Temple.   As their Renown increases within these factions, other things in the game will unlock...quests will trigger, new goods and services become available, rivals will take notice.

It's either going to be a great idea, or a terrible idea.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I've fallen down a rabbit hole with Renown.  Normally this is the time where I would start digging my way out, but it's kind of cozy down here.  I think I might stay a while.
> 
> I've got a number of Factions in my upcoming campaign that the party can ally themselves with--do little favors, make some friends, that sort of thing.  Complete that Bounty Quest, +1 renown with the Town Guard.  Find that stolen relic, +1 renown with The Temple.   As their Renown increases within these factions, other things in the game will unlock...quests will trigger, new goods and services become available, rivals will take notice.
> 
> It's either going to be a great idea, or a terrible idea.



I do this often. Usually, but not always, there is a -1 impact to another faction. If somebody ends up happy, often somebody ends up not. Adds an entirely new dimension to PC decision trees.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's .... in interesting statement ... for Buzzfeed to put in the NG description.
> 
> It's almost like there is some underlying ethos behind it.



Or someone has read "Harrison Bergeron" a few too many times ...


----------



## payn

No, no, no, everyone is doing stat rolling wrong as usual. You roll 3D6 in order and take what you get. You simply suicide the character in play until you get to be a paladin.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> No, no, no, everyone is doing stat rolling wrong as usual. You roll 3D6 in order and take what you get. You simply suicide the character in play until you get to be a paladin.



What kind of hippie hand-holding is this?!? Listen, you get 2d6 for every stat, in order. When you advance to level 2, you _MAY_ get to roll an additional d6 for _ONE_ stat, _IF_ you can convince me you spent enough time developing it _AND_ it's appropriate to the character class! That's the way we've always done it! No wonder I always see these superhero characters running around with 10s, 11s, and 12s in every stat -- you guys are all doing it wrong!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> What kind of hippie hand-holding is this?!? Listen, you get 2d6 for every stat, in order. When you advance to level 2, you _MAY_ get to roll an additional d6 for _ONE_ stat, _IF_ you can convince me you spent enough time developing it _AND_ it's appropriate to the character class! That's the way we've always done it! No wonder I always see these superhero characters running around with 10s, 11s, and 12s in every stat -- you guys are all doing it wrong!




Someone doesn't know why d4s were invented.

d6 is EASY MODE.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Or someone has read "Harrison Bergeron" a few too many times ...



Or maybe "Atlas Shrugged."


----------



## South by Southwest

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Someone doesn't know why d4s were invented.
> 
> d6 is EASY MODE.



I've occasionally thought about using 4d4+2 or even 5d4 instead of 3d6/4d6-d6. It feels like a weird approach, but it would clump the distribution a lot more.

Wait--I _did_ comment in another thread, so did I just break a thread rule? Do I now have to smack my forehead with a wet noodle or something?


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> I've occasionally thought about using 4d4+2 or even 5d4 instead of 3d6/4d6-d6. It feels like a weird approach, but it would clump the distribution a lot more.



I just use the points method, where applicable. No worrying about someone rolling crappy and having to live with it, or rolling until they get virtually straight 18s.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> I've occasionally thought about using 4d4+2 or even 5d4 instead of 3d6/4d6-d6. It feels like a weird approach, but it would clump the distribution a lot more.
> 
> Wait--I _did_ comment in another thread, so did I just break a thread rule? Do I now have to smack my forehead with a wet noodle or something?




It's time to start a new thread.

*The 'I Didn't Comment in "The 'I Didn't Comment in Another Thread' Thread" Thread'*


----------



## Mannahnin

South by Southwest said:


> I've occasionally thought about using 4d4+2 or even 5d4 instead of 3d6/4d6-d6. It feels like a weird approach, but it would clump the distribution a lot more.



Isn't 5d4 what Joel Rosenberg has the players use in the first chapter of The Sleeping Dragon, in their Not-D&D game?


----------



## dragoner

Cadence said:


> I guess one way to allow the CEverywhere character to be the protagonist they want to be is to just not have geography or time be a thing.



Usually when I get someone doing it, I look them in the eye, and say to stop. What bothers me most about someone being chaotic everywhere is that usually they interrupt other players, it is good to be enthusiastic about the game though. Still people need to work together as a group.


----------



## Mannahnin

dragoner said:


> Usually when I get someone doing it, I look them in the eye, and say to stop. What bothers me most about someone being chaotic everywhere is that usually they interrupt other players, it is good to be enthusiastic about the game though. Still people need to work together as a group.



Yup.  It's often best cured by the DM deliberately spreading the spotlight around, and discouraging the player who's trying to do everything. 

Not that every player HAS to be equally involved.  Some players are naturally happier to go along, and usually you have a couple of players who are more proactive than the rest.  But deliberately requiring statements of action from the less-pushy players, and asking stuff like "Ok, while Heiro the Hero is doing THAT, what are the rest of you doing?", you can make sure everyone gets to do fun stuff and get some spotlight time.


----------



## Cadence




----------



## Malmuria

Cadence said:


> View attachment 250448



What were Bloom’s dramatic needs when he was sitting in the outhouse, though?


----------



## Cadence

Malmuria said:


> What were Bloom’s dramatic needs when he was sitting in the outhouse, though?



I tried to read it twice - I don't think I made it that far, or hit that randomly flipping after giving up.

I suddenly had the desire for a version of it laid out like the TRS-80 Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.

If that's story though, I don't want it.


----------



## Cadence

Finally clicked on the map at Matricula Online doing some genealogy things.  19th century Europe - looks like a bunch of maps spliced together that you can move around on.

Oldenburg Münsterland








						Europe in the XIX. century | Arcanum Maps
					






					maps.arcanum.com
				




Finland








						Europe in the XIX. century | Arcanum Maps
					






					maps.arcanum.com


----------



## dragoner

Mannahnin said:


> Yup.  It's often best cured by the DM deliberately spreading the spotlight around, and discouraging the player who's trying to do everything.
> 
> Not that every player HAS to be equally involved.  Some players are naturally happier to go along, and usually you have a couple of players who are more proactive than the rest.  But deliberately requiring statements of action from the less-pushy players, and asking stuff like "Ok, while Heiro the Hero is doing THAT, what are the rest of you doing?", you can make sure everyone gets to do fun stuff and get some spotlight time.



I agree, I don't want to force anyone out of their comfort zone, I do like to give them a chance to say something without being interrupted. I see a lot of solutions to player issues that I handle just by being straight forward and saying for them to not do that, even though on the other side, as player, I have seen DM's struggling with other players.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

"Pander" and "cater" are not synonyms, and people need to learn the difference.


----------



## Deset Gled

AcererakTriple6 said:


> "Pander" and "cater" are not synonyms, and people need to learn the difference.




Alternatively, "pandering" isn't necessarily a bad thing.  With the right consenting person, it can be a lot of fun


----------



## dragoner

I find it difficult to believe that if one treats people poorly, they will still be around to play, it is too easy to be "Yeah, but nah".


----------



## Parmandur

"Marijuana Plastics Entrepreneur"


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Or maybe "Atlas Shrugged."



I figure most relatively sane people are more likely to read a short story a few times than they are a doorstop.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> I figure most relatively sane people are more likely to read a short story a few times than they are a doorstop.



Are you saying that the fans of the Wheel of Time and Stormlight Archive are not "relatively sane"? 

I'm not inherently disagreeing, just asking a clarifying question. 

(Oh, but being a fan of Ayn Rand's works probably does make your sanity questionable.)


----------



## prabe

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Are you saying that the fans of the Wheel of Time and Stormlight Archive are not "relatively sane"?
> 
> I'm not inherently disagreeing, just asking a clarifying question.
> 
> (Oh, but being a fan of Ayn Rand's works probably does make your sanity questionable.)



I was specifically comparing reading "Harrison Bergeron" multiple times with reading _Atlas Shrugged_ multiple times. 

I do figure that most people who read a big series don't read all of it multiple times, but there are a couple-three I've a few times, so I'm probably not most people.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> I do figure that most people who read a big series don't read all of it multiple times, but there are a couple-three I've a few times, so I'm probably not most people.



I don't know about _most_, but I do know that it is fairly common for people to reread the Stormlight Archive at least once after finishing all of the books that are currently out (and then again when a new book comes out), just due to the fact that there's so much foreshadowing and hidden details that you wouldn't notice on the first readthrough. And those books are big, all over 1,000 pages.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## prabe

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I don't know about _most_, but I do know that it is fairly common for people to reread the Stormlight Archive at least once after finishing all of the books that are currently out (and then again when a new book comes out), just due to the fact that there's so much foreshadowing and hidden details that you wouldn't notice on the first readthrough. And those books are big, all over 1,000 pages.



I did that for a while with King's _Dark Tower_ series.


----------



## CleverNickName

"Presto, a quick'n easy dinner for 4" _people you hate._


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> I figure most relatively sane people are more likely to read a short story a few times than they are a doorstop.



So no Tolstoy then?

EDIT: *TUNA AND WAFFLES???* Okay, that is some next-level nasty.

Okay, here's my best attempt at matching that. Go to about 16 seconds into the clip:


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 250470



Sweet Jesus


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 250470



Encase that in aspic and you'd have something pretty close to my grandma's ultimate superfood.


----------



## Davies

Well, I'd swap out the mushroom soup for tomato, and omit the olives, but blending tuna and waffles doesn't sound all that unappetizing.


----------



## payn

Im not sure why finding the grossest tuna combo has suddenly become a competition around here?


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> I do figure that most people who read a big series don't read all of it multiple times, but there are a couple-three I've a few times, so I'm probably not most people.



_moves in front of The Dresden Files shelf of his bookcase_


----------



## CleverNickName

Davies said:


> Well, I'd swap out the mushroom soup for tomato, and omit the olives, but blending tuna and waffles doesn't sound all that unappetizing.



I challenge the whole forum to post a serious (i.e., not a joke, not trolling) recipe involving canned tuna and frozen waffles that actually sounds delicious.  If you do, I promise I'll cook and eat it.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> I do figure that most people who read a big series don't read all of it multiple times, but there are a couple-three I've a few times, so I'm probably not most people.




I would have guessed that most book lovers have a few that they reread a lot.

(For me, when I was younger, Tolkien til the books, including Silmarillion fell apart - now mostly just the Silmarillion; more recently all of Glen Cook except his last series at least twice, most of it three or four; and have read through Rex Stout twice).


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I challenge the whole forum to post a serious (i.e., not a joke, not trolling) recipe involving canned tuna and frozen waffles that actually sounds delicious.  If you do, I promise I'll cook and eat it.



I didn't think I would find something worse than canned tuna on pizza, and my mom's tuna casserole.  Canned tuna on waffles might do it.


----------



## Davies

CleverNickName said:


> I challenge the whole forum to post a serious (i.e., not a joke, not trolling) recipe involving canned tuna and frozen waffles that actually sounds delicious.  If you do, I promise I'll cook and eat it.



... does it have to be _frozen_ waffles? Because the ones in the picture that started this look like they could be out of a waffle iron.

Anyway, I'm quite serious. Add some basil and oregano to the soup, maybe some cheese, then stir in the tuna, heat it up nicely, and pour it over the waffles. It wouldn't be something I've eaten before, but nothing about it says "inedible" to me.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Mannahnin

prabe said:


> I do figure that most people who read a big series don't read all of it multiple times, but there are a couple-three I've a few times, so I'm probably not most people.






AcererakTriple6 said:


> I don't know about _most_, but I do know that it is fairly common for people to reread the Stormlight Archive at least once after finishing all of the books that are currently out (and then again when a new book comes out), just due to the fact that there's so much foreshadowing and hidden details that you wouldn't notice on the first readthrough. And those books are big, all over 1,000 pages.



Yeah, it depends.  LotR I've read multiple times, and Lyonesse in part because it's just so damn readable.  But those aren't that long. I read Neil Stephenson's Baroque Cycle a second time and enjoyed it more on the re-read, and that's a beast (three volumes, 8 sub-books, 2256 pages). 

I tried to do what Acererak is talking about with Song of Ice and Fire.  I re-read the first three books when a Feast for Crows came out five years after A Storm of Swords, but by the time Dance arrived I was done with it.  I had needed the re-read to get reacquainted with the plots and large cast, but the books just weren't enjoyable enough to justify re-reading 3188 pages after another five years had passed.  The only time in my life when I've felt that the TV or film adaptation of a work was just superior and more worth the consumer's time than the book(s).  And that's even considering the collapse in writing in the last couple seasons of the series.


----------



## Mannahnin

Davies said:


> ... does it have to be _frozen_ waffles? Because the ones in the picture that started this look like they could be out of a waffle iron.
> 
> Anyway, I'm quite serious. Add some basil and oregano to the soup, maybe some cheese, then stir in the tuna, heat it up nicely, and pour it over the waffles. It wouldn't be something I've eaten before, but nothing about it says "inedible" to me.



Yeah, I could see it being workable with savory waffles.  The texture would probably not be appealing for me, though; the whole thing would be too mushy.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I challenge the whole forum to post a serious (i.e., not a joke, not trolling) recipe involving canned tuna and frozen waffles that actually sounds delicious.  If you do, I promise I'll cook and eat it.



Dont listen to them. You take the soup and olives and give them to the food shelf. You bread the tuna and deep fry it. Smother in hot sauce and maple syrup. Voila! Tuna and waffles that are edible and delicious.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Behold!

The WALL OF THE FAITHLESS! Where the non-believers of the GREAT PINEAPPLE/PIZZA DIVIDE as espoused by our LORD AND SAVIOR, THAR-----, THE NAMELESS, shall go if they do not recant their heresies.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Behold!
> 
> The WALL OF THE FAITHLESS! Where the non-believers of the GREAT PINEAPPLE/PIZZA DIVIDE as espoused by our LORD AND SAVIOR, THAR-----, THE NAMELESS, shall go if they do not recant their heresies.



Looks like @CleverNickName has a lot of eatin to do!


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Looks like @CleverNickName has a lot of eatin to do!



False, none of those sound good.  Tuna pancakes?  Tuna short pie pasties?!  Come on.

But I can imagine at least one that isn't terrible.  I'm imagining a tuna salad sandwich situation, where the slices of bread are replaced with crispy, savory waffles.  That might not be terrible, I'll have to let you know.

*EDIT: * Apparently this is already a thing.




So there you have it: canned tuna + frozen waffles, in a format that looks edible.  Serve it with soup, and it might even be a tasty lunch.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> False, none of those sound good.  Tuna pancakes?  Tuna short pie pasties?!  Come on.
> 
> But I can imagine at least one that isn't terrible.  I'm imagining a tuna salad sandwich situation, where the slices of bread are replaced with crispy, savory waffles.  That might not be terrible, I'll have to let you know.




Spicy Tuna Melts with Sriracha - The Weary Chef


----------



## CleverNickName

Apparently someone made that waffle-tuna-soup-olive abomination on their YouTube cooking channel.


The verdict:


			
				emmymade said:
			
		

> "It's actually not--it's not too bad.  Its not _delicious_, at all, but it's not disgusting either.
> ...
> It actually looks a lot worse than it tastes.  If you're a tuna casserole fan, this will taste very familiar."


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Retreater said:


> I haven't been posting much since I started making an effort to stay more positive.
> I wish there were something more positive going on in the hobby that I was interacting with that I could discuss.
> Oh well, hope everyone's having a good day.



Yeah, I have more or less walked away from all of this for a while. I have a ton of games I can have fun with, but I don't dare to leave the house. I just need to decide on which system to play, which vtt to use, learn to use it, and then get the nerve to invite random strangers online to play. I am not a happy gamer.


----------



## prabe

Mannahnin said:


> I read Neil Stephenson's Baroque Cycle a second time and enjoyed it more on the re-read, and that's a beast (three volumes, 8 sub-books, 2256 pages).



Is that the one I might think of as _The System of the World_? In a past life, I worked as a button-pushing monkey recording engineer recording those. Whatever pleasure Stephenson's books may provide was lost (for me) in that process. No novel (or other book built around a narrative) is likely to come across well if one reads ~40 pages, then comes back ten days later and reads a different~40 pages with no real connection to where one left off. On the scale Stephenson was working, what tends to happen is one picks up in one thread, mid-digression; then reads enough to get out of the digression and either into another or to skip to another unrelated narrative thread. One never really sees anything one understands, resolve.



Mannahnin said:


> I tried to do what Acererak is talking about with Song of Ice and Fire.  I re-read the first three books when a Feast for Crows came out five years after A Storm of Swords, but by the time Dance arrived I was done with it.  I had needed the re-read to get reacquainted with the plots and large cast, but the books just weren't enjoyable enough to justify re-reading 3188 pages after another five years had passed.  The only time in my life when I've felt that the TV or film adaptation of a work was just superior and more worth the consumer's time than the book(s).  And that's even considering the collapse in writing in the last couple seasons of the series.



At this point my approach is to hold off on reading a planned series until the whole thing is published. Obviously this works better for something like a trilogy than a dodecalogy; no plan is perfect.


----------



## TheSword

Retreater said:


> I haven't been posting much since I started making an effort to stay more positive.
> I wish there were something more positive going on in the hobby that I was interacting with that I could discuss.
> Oh well, hope everyone's having a good day.



Winds of Magic is great! A beautiful work, both tidying up the rules and adding a load of lore and mechanical content.


----------



## Retreater

Tuna on a savory waffle would probably be fine. I made cornbread waffles stuffed with taco meat and topped with cheese, salsa, and sour cream.
And of course chicken and waffles is delicious.


----------



## prabe

One must wonder why one would invite people to comment on one's game, if one were enjoying it.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> One must wonder why one would invite people to comment on one's game, if one were enjoying it.



"Im having way too much fun! Come and spoil it and take my enjoyment down a notch" Cant say I see that sentiment very often.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> "Im having way too much fun! Come and spoil it and take my enjoyment down a notch" Cant say I see that sentiment very often.



TELL ME WHAT I AM DOING WRONG


----------



## Mannahnin

> Is that the one I might think of as _The System of the World_?



Ja; the three volumes (I have the hardcovers, so I think of the series primarily divided this way, not as the sub-books) are Quicksilver, The Confusion, and The System of the World.  So you were working on the latter part, sounds like.



prabe said:


> In a past life, I worked as a button-pushing monkey recording engineer recording those. Whatever pleasure Stephenson's books may provide was lost (for me) in that process. No novel (or other book built around a narrative) is likely to come across well if one reads ~40 pages, then comes back ten days later and reads a different~40 pages with no real connection to where one left off. On the scale Stephenson was working, what tends to happen is one picks up in one thread, mid-digression; then reads enough to get out of the digression and either into another or to skip to another unrelated narrative thread. One never really sees anything one understands, resolve.




Alas. That sounds very sad.


----------



## prabe

Mannahnin said:


> Ja; the three volumes (I have the hardcovers, so I think of the series primarily divided this way, not as the sub-books) are Quicksilver, The Confusion, and The System of the World.  So you were working on the latter part, sounds like.



We recorded all three of those. Three hardcover books of 1200, 800, and 800 pages, in order, IIRC.

Don't feel too bad. First it was a paid job; second, it was for a free program open to blind/handicapped. I know of other studios doing roughly the same thing who have engineers record the whole book; the place I worked for did not. At least the narrators (the voice talent) got to read the whole book, if slowly.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> False, none of those sound good.  Tuna pancakes?  Tuna short pie pasties?!  Come on.
> 
> But I can imagine at least one that isn't terrible.  I'm imagining a tuna salad sandwich situation, where the slices of bread are replaced with crispy, savory waffles.  That might not be terrible, I'll have to let you know.
> 
> *EDIT: * Apparently this is already a thing.
> View attachment 250488
> 
> So there you have it: canned tuna + frozen waffles, in a format that looks edible.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


>


----------



## prabe

It seems clear to me that people prep what they're not comfortable improvising, and they buy what they're not comfortable prepping.


----------



## Cadence

*Rufus:* "Mankind got it all wrong by takin' a good idea and building a belief structure out of it."

*Bethany*: So you're saying that having beliefs is a bad thing?

*Rufus*: I just think it's better to have an idea. You can change an idea; changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it. 

from Kevin Smith's _Dogma_


----------



## payn

I was just looking for some easy smoker recipe to try this weekend. I came across an article named "28 easy smoker recipe you gotta try" Half of it was stuff I'd never smoke like tomatoes and apples. The one that took the cake was... well a recipe for smoked cake. I don't even...

Edit;


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> At this point my approach is to hold off on reading a planned series until the whole thing is published. Obviously this works better for something like a trilogy than a dodecalogy; no plan is perfect.



I'm generally like that, unless the author has proven before that they can and will release their books at a regular and consistent speed. So I'm not going to read The Kingkiller Chronicle or A Song of Ice and Fire anytime soon because it's been over a decade since either Rothfuss or Martin put out a book for their series, but I'm fine with reading the Stormlight Archive and the Dresden Files, since Sanderson and Butcher have proven that they will release a book for their series very regularly.


----------



## R_J_K75

Mars Voltas Bedlam In Goliath is great.  Takes a stout man to get through the whole record.  Well worth it if youre in to prog rock.


----------



## dragoner

Twitter always delivers the crazy drama.


----------



## R_J_K75

dragoner said:


> Twitter always delivers the crazy drama.



Twilight is between wake and sleep.  How Paul McCartney wrote Yesterday.  It was originally called "Scranbled Eggs"


----------



## trappedslider

NASA's Mars Perseverance rover has a pet rock that's hitching a ride
					

The rock attached itself on the Perseverance's wheel in February and has since been transported more than 5.3 miles (8.5 km) aboard the rover, NASA has said.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Cadence

I'm glad you can continually beat that drum in essentially any thread you come across. Everyone should have something that makes them feel needed.

Now, back to the bards, pizza, and pet rocks on mars rovers!


----------



## Asisreo

When someone says they enjoy weird foods, like one of the comments on the tuna waffle recipes said, I will (jokingly!) tell them "Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that...I hope you get better..."


----------



## South by Southwest

I used to consider pho a pretty weird food. Thanks to the influence of one of my Malaysian students, though, I've quite changed my mind.


----------



## dragoner

South by Southwest said:


> I used to consider pho a pretty weird food. Thanks to the influence of one of my Malaysian students, though, I've quite changed my mind.



Even the tripe? I used to live by a Pho house in Oakland.


----------



## Parmandur

dragoner said:


> Even the tripe? I used to live by a Pho house in Oakland.



Access to good Pho is probably highly regional. You can find quality examples of just about any sort of food here in the Bay Area, other places aren't lucky.


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> Access to good Pho is probably highly regional. You can find quality examples of just about any sort of food here in the Bay Area, other places aren't lucky.



Correct. And at the moment I live in a part of the Northeast that is more like rural Alabama than it is like cosmopolitan New York. Good pho can be found around here, but you have to really look; Google won't do it.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> Correct. And at the moment I live in a part of the Northeast that is more like rural Alabama than it is like cosmopolitan New York. Good pho can be found around here, but you have to really look; Google won't do it.



I just Googled "Pho near me," and there are at least 7 restraunts within a 10 minute drive with Pho actually in their name. All of which I presume to be too legit to quit, based on my experience of Bay Area mom and pop Pho shops.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Parmandur said:


> Access to good Pho is probably highly regional..




Access to good pho isn’t regional. 

Access to good pho is a _fundamental human right. _


----------



## Parmandur

Out of boredom, I did a more thorough survey of the Google results, and there are 23 restraunts with Pho in their name within 5 miles of me right now, amd I'm pretty sure Little Saigon is more than 5 miles from here. Amd that's not counting obviously Vietnamese restraunts that didn't put Pho in their name.


----------



## South by Southwest

Sure, sure--make me jealous.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Access to good pho isn’t regional.
> 
> Access to good pho is a _fundamental human right. _




* pho-ndamental

-- Ed.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> Sure, sure--make me jealous.



Listen, we all need hobbies. It also makes me feel better about the Kafkaesque housing market. I have to rent, biut at least I have easy access to good soup.


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> Listen, we all need hobbies. It also makes me feel better about the Kafkaesque housing market. I have to rent, biut at least I have easy access to good soup.



If we ever game together, lets' do it at my house, but you gotta bring the pho.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> If we ever game together, lets' do it at my house, but you gotta bring the pho.



I suspect it will get cold, or spill on the plane.


----------



## dragoner

Parmandur said:


> Access to good Pho is probably highly regional. You can find quality examples of just about any sort of food here in the Bay Area, other places aren't lucky.



Indeed, I have had the tripe, largely because their English was poor and my Vietnamese non-existent. Half of what I miss about the Bay is the diversity, the other half is the majestic beauty of the landscape.


----------



## dragoner

Random Mendo pic:


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> Access to good Pho is probably highly regional. You can find quality examples of just about any sort of food here in the Bay Area, other places aren't lucky.



There is a good 8 mile run of Pho shops in St Paul. Fun fact, the movie Gran Torino originally was set here in the Twin Cities, but was moved to Detroit for the film.

One shop has a two gallon bowl that if you can finish it in a certain timeframe its free with a T-shirt that says "Pho-King"


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> There is a good 8 mile run of Pho shops in St Paul. Fun fact, the movie Gran Torino originally was set here in the Twin Cities, but was moved to Detroit for the film.
> 
> One shop has a two gallon bowl that if you can finish it in a certain timeframe its free with a T-shirt that says "Pho-King"



Ooo...careful pronunciation is gonna be big on that one.


----------



## Cadence

floccinaucinihilipificatiousness


----------



## RealAlHazred

Remember, "pho" is pronounced "fa".

No, really!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Remember, "pho" is pronounced "fa".
> 
> No, really!



Yeah, I never understood why stuff like that happens in translation. If we're taking another language's words and translating them to English, wouldn't it make sense to just write them how they sound, instead of whatever ungodly process went into making it spelled "P H O"?


----------



## prabe

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, I never understood why stuff like that happens in translation. If we're taking another language's words and translating them to English, wouldn't it make sense to just write them how they sound, instead of whatever ungodly process went into making it spelled "P H O"?



Gaelic would like a word ...

(The fact Vietnam was a *French* colony may be part of the specific answer to your specific question.)


----------



## trappedslider

South by Southwest said:


> Ooo...careful pronunciation is gonna be big on that one.



I tried five different clips of this scene from The Gentlemen all of them had to view on other sites disabled.

His name is Phuc, but it's spelled with a "Ph," so it sounds like "fu-uck."

So it's Phu-uc?

What? Yeah, something like that.

Anyway, he's the kid that gave us the skunk farm job. Do you know him?

Yeah, we've met before, haven't we, Phu-uc... Phuc?

That's the one. Phu-uc?

Phuc. Phuc.


----------



## Cadence

"When you really want a good cake, why would you turn to a professionally trained baker when you can get one from a plumber who has a food blog on the side? All those pro bakers are just biased into doing the same old thing and don't have the mental flexibility of plumbers, and are the kind of people who leave the negative feedback to the food blog."


----------



## niklinna

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Remember, "pho" is pronounced "fa".
> 
> No, really!



"Fa" like in "ha"? I thought it was "fuh" like in "huh"!


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> I tried five different clips of this scene from The Gentlemen all of them had to view on other sites disabled.
> 
> His name is Phuc, but it's spelled with a "Ph," so it sounds like "fu-uck."
> 
> So it's Phu-uc?
> 
> What? Yeah, something like that.
> 
> Anyway, he's the kid that gave us the skunk farm job. Do you know him?
> 
> Yeah, we've met before, haven't we, Phu-uc... Phuc?
> 
> That's the one. Phu-uc?
> 
> Phuc. Phuc.



I went to high school with a guy named Phuc Vu. He changed it to Vince or Bob Vu at some point.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, I never understood why stuff like that happens in translation. If we're taking another language's words and translating them to English, wouldn't it make sense to just write them how they sound, instead of whatever ungodly process went into making it spelled "P H O"?



It because Vietnamese uses the Latin alphabet natively, through a French form. So the vowels are pronounced like French, not English.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> It because Vietnamese uses the Latin alphabet natively, through a French form. So the vowels are pronounced like French, not English.



If that were the case, "pho" would rhyme with "lavabo" (the French word of course; English doesn't have that as a pure vowel free of diphthongs). French doesn't have the actual vowel in Vietnamese, either. But, the native orthograhpy is "Phở", in which 'ơ' is the base letter with an IPA value of /əː˧/ (that is, a long mid-central vowel with a mid tone), and the little curlicue on top is a tone marker to change it from the default (depending on dialect).

Geek out with me at the Wikipedia page on pho! And the Wikipedia page on the Vietnamese alphabet.

I knew that linguistics degree would come in handy one day....


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Parmandur said:


> It because Vietnamese uses the Latin alphabet natively, through a French form. So the vowels are pronounced like French, not English.



Yeah, but we also translate a ton of words from other languages to English to make sense with our standard pronunciations. I know English (and linguistics in general) are stupid and nonsensical, but I always wondered why we sometimes change the spelling to fit our pronunciations and other times don't.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg




----------



## niklinna

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, but we also translate a ton of words from other languages to English to make sense with our standard pronunciations. I know English (and *linguistics in general*) are *stupid and nonsensical*, but I always wondered why we sometimes change the spelling to fit our pronunciations and other times don't.



Well there goes my moment of pride at having my linguistics degree be useful....

At least I'm not a Chomskyan.

And English? Standard pronunciations? Would that be in the United States, Engliand, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, India...? 

I could hazard some guesses about why we sometimes change the spelling of purloined words to fit out pronunciations and other times don't, but


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

niklinna said:


> Well there goes my moment of pride at having my linguistics degree be useful....



Sorry. Maybe I used the wrong term. I don't mean "linguistics" as in studying languages, that's quite useful. I meant more "the process in which languages evolve and borrow aspects from other languages" isn't internally consistent with how that language generally works. 


niklinna said:


> And English? Standard pronunciations? Would that be in the United States, Engliand, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, India...?



Do any major English dialects pronounce their words so differently that "P H O" would sound like "fuh"?


----------



## Parmandur

niklinna said:


> If that were the case, "pho" would rhyme with "lavabo" (the French word of course; English doesn't have that as a pure vowel free of diphthongs). French doesn't have the actual vowel in Vietnamese, either. But, the native orthograhpy is "Phở", in which 'ơ' is the base letter with an IPA value of /əː˧/ (that is, a long mid-central vowel with a mid tone), and the little curlicue on top is a tone marker to change it from the default (depending on dialect).
> 
> Geek out with me at the Wikipedia page on pho! And the Wikipedia page on the Vietnamese alphabet.
> 
> I knew that linguistics degree would come in handy one day....



Touché, though the fact thst Vietnamese has it own version of the Latin alphabet which doesn't line up with English as a result.


----------



## Parmandur

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, but we also translate a ton of words from other languages to English to make sense with our standard pronunciations. I know English (and linguistics in general) are stupid and nonsensical, but I always wondered why we sometimes change the spelling to fit our pronunciations and other times don't.



Usually the big difference is if a language has it's own version if the Latin alphabet, like Vietnamese, Gaelic, Welsh or Polish: their spellings are phonetic in their own version of the Latin alphabet, bit because it's the Latin alphabet rarely is the orthography corrected Tobe phonetic in English. Whereas other languages, like Japanese or Russian, are usually phonetic because they have to be transliterated from a different alphabet.


----------



## niklinna

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Sorry. Maybe I used the wrong term. I don't mean "linguistics" as in studying languages, that's quite useful. I meant more "the process in which languages evolve and borrow aspects from other languages" isn't internally consistent with how that language generally works.



Well, that's different, then!



AcererakTriple6 said:


> Do any major English dialects pronounce their words so differently that "P H O" would sound like "fuh"?



None of the ones I listed, to my knowledge.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> Usually the big difference is if a language has it's own version if the Latin alphabet, like Vietnamese, Gaelic, Welsh or Polish: their spellings are phonetic in their own version of the Latin alphabet, bit because it's the Latin alphabet rarely is the orthography corrected Tobe phonetic in English. Whereas other languages, like Japanese or Russian, are usually phonetic because they have to be transliterated from a different alphabet.



There's also the question of whether the word was borrowed with its native orthography, or through oral channels only, and given a spelling to fit. More likely the older a word is, of course.


----------



## Hussar

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, I never understood why stuff like that happens in translation. If we're taking another language's words and translating them to English, wouldn't it make sense to just write them how they sound, instead of whatever ungodly process went into making it spelled "P H O"?



Swimming upthread a bit, but, generally speaking, any transliteration into another language is not actually using the alphabet of that other language, but, a stylized set of symbols loosely related to the second language.  Thus, Romaji (transliterated Japanese), Pinyin (transliterated Chinese) and various other languages will not be pronounced the way a native English speaker would read the words.

Again, see any place name in Wales.  Basically the Welsh just really wanted to win at Scrabble.


----------



## prabe

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah, but we also translate a ton of words from other languages to English to make sense with our standard pronunciations. I know English (and linguistics in general) are stupid and nonsensical, but I always wondered why we sometimes change the spelling to fit our pronunciations and other times don't.



Transliteration is ... difficult. There are non-English words that are in non-Latin alphabets, which use different phonemes, and those transliterations are frequently difficult to pronounce correctly, even if you mostly grok the rules. There are other non-English words that are in the Latin alphabet, and some of those are left as natively spelled while others are ... recast.

There's also that some of these loanwords entered English long enough ago that they got caught up in the Great Vowel Shift.

(No degree in the field, just fifteen-ish years dealing with recording spoken word in a context where getting the pronunciations right mattered.)


----------



## payn

For viewing pleasure today im going to kick off a new installment of, "Things I _knew_ I didnt need".


----------



## RealAlHazred

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Sorry. Maybe I used the wrong term. I don't mean "linguistics" as in studying languages, that's quite useful. I meant more "the process in which languages evolve and borrow aspects from other languages" isn't internally consistent with how that language generally works.
> 
> Do any major English dialects pronounce their words so differently that "P H O" would sound like "fuh"?



I'm pretty sure in Welsh Gaelige all those letters are silent...


----------



## RealAlHazred

niklinna said:


> "Fa" like in "ha"? I thought it was "fuh" like in "huh"!



This is another one of those like "drow", isn't it. The "R-O-W" is correctly pronounced by genteel people exactly like it is in "row;" and definitely *not *like in "row," you'd sound like some gutter-dwelling Luddite.


----------



## Mannahnin

I've always heard "fuh" to rhyme with "uh", rather than "fah" to rhyme with "ha".  

Though TBF, I don't have a lot of Vietnamese-speaking friends, so I'm getting it at least second-hand.  Unless I've heard a Vietnamese-speaker pronounce it on Youtube, maybe? Or I'm forgetting an older interaction.  That's also possible.


----------



## payn




----------



## RealAlHazred

Mannahnin said:


> I've always heard "fuh" to rhyme with "uh", rather than "fah" to rhyme with "ha".
> 
> Though TBF, I don't have a lot of Vietnamese-speaking friends, so I'm getting it at least second-hand.  Unless I've heard a Vietnamese-speaker pronounce it on Youtube, maybe? Or I'm forgetting an older interaction.  That's also possible.



All I know is we have a restaurant near my part of New Jersey called "Pho King Great" which only works if it's pronounced in a _very particular_ way.


----------



## J.Quondam

If English loan words were spelled sensibly, our spelling bees would be terribly boring.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> If English loan words were spelled sensibly, our spelling bees would be terribly boring.



If English were spelled sensibly ...

(It's my understanding the issue is the Great Vowel Shift happening about the same time the printing press--and more-common literacy and standardized spellings--arrived in England. I am willing to be corrected on this.)


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> I am willing to be corrected on this.)



*What*‽‽‽ You can take THAT right off of the Internet, thank you very much! What would the Web look like if everyone went around with _that _attitude, I ask you?


----------



## prabe

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> *What*‽‽‽ You can take THAT right off of the Internet, thank you very much! What would the Web look like if everyone went around with _that _attitude, I ask you?



Civilized?


----------



## niklinna

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> This is another one of those like "drow", isn't it. The "R-O-W" is correctly pronounced by genteel people exactly like it is in "row;" and definitely *not *like in "row," you'd sound like some gutter-dwelling Luddite.



Wait what? Since when does puncutation next to a word affect its pronunciation?


----------



## dragoner

This is classic: Meihem In Ce Klasrum, by Dolton Edwards


----------



## South by Southwest

So I'll switch to a topic that isn't redundant: has anyone else been eyeing the Elvis movie trailers? (I daren't call it a "biopic" because that has connotations that I think would be unfair to this movie.) I haven't felt a compelling need to go see a movie in the theaters in a very long time, but this one has me pretty amped.


----------



## Deset Gled

There are some threads I want to distribute bingo cards for.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> So I'll switch to a topic that isn't redundant: has anyone else been eyeing the Elvis movie trailers? (I daren't call it a "biopic" because that has connotations that I think would be unfair to this movie.) I haven't felt a compelling need to go see a movie in the theaters in a very long time, but this one has me pretty amped.



This post fills me with questions. Why not a biopic? Why does this movie in particular want you to get back in a theater?


----------



## Mannahnin

South by Southwest said:


> So I'll switch to a topic that isn't redundant: has anyone else been eyeing the Elvis movie trailers? (I daren't call it a "biopic" because that has connotations that I think would be unfair to this movie.) I haven't felt a compelling need to go see a movie in the theaters in a very long time, but this one has me pretty amped.



I have not; but I love almost everything Baz Luhrmann does, so I'm definitely looking forward to it.


----------



## Cadence

I always like it when one thread is so ridiculous that it makes all the others seem well reasoned by comparison.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> This post fills me with questions. Why not a biopic?



Luhrmann has balked at calling it that, I'm told. The concern is that "biopic" too strongly connotes cleaving to the already-known history of the person and depicting it somewhat in a "paint-by-numbers" approach. Luhrmann consciously chose not to do that.


payn said:


> Why does this movie in particular want you to get back in a theater?



From what little I've seen, the acting and writing look really, _really_ good. I'll always favor a good story told well over one that gives me something I was already looking for. Also, Elvis was the King, man. For all that was wrong with him, he did show us that the actual limits of human potential are a lot higher than we suppose. Kind of like Mozart did, but this time with the blues and rock and roll.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Luhrmann has balked at calling it that, I'm told. The concern is that "biopic" too strongly connotes cleaving to the already-known history of the person and depicting it somewhat in a "paint-by-numbers" approach. Luhrmann consciously chose not to do that.
> 
> From what little I've seen, the acting and writing look really, _really_ good. I'll always favor a good story told well over one that gives me something I was already looking for. Also, Elvis was the King, man. For all that was wrong with him, he did show us that the actual limits of human potential are a lot higher than we suppose. Kind of like Mozart did, but this time with the blues and rock and roll.



Thanks for the context. I dont typically like these movies as they seem to embellish the characters. I have a very hard time immersing in the sotry being told. Id rather hear people who knew him sitting on a couch talking about it then see this dramatization. That said, with Luhrmann's comments and directing style, it should be entertaining if anything else.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Thanks for the context. I dont typically like these movies as they seem to embellish the characters. I have a very hard time immersing in the sotry being told. Id rather hear people who knew him sitting on a couch talking about it then see this dramatization. *That said, with Luhrmann's comments and directing style, it should be entertaining if anything else.*



I think it will.

I quite understand feeling bored or turned off by biopics: a lot of historical fiction gets that reaction from me. But when it's done well, the real motivator for me isn't the format: it's that it's done well. My sense of this one is that they went for broke with it.


----------



## billd91

Someone's got a really appropriate user name - at least from a certain point of view.


----------



## billd91

Saving throw to resist responding to a serious threadcrap - successful!
Saving throw to avoid boasting about it here - failed!


----------



## payn

Ah, and now we enter the "art form" phase of the discussion. Good thing I'm heading north for the weekend. Smoked meats and delicious drinks await!


----------



## niklinna

billd91 said:


> Saving throw to resist responding to a serious threadcrap - successful!
> Saving throw to avoid boasting about it here - failed!



What about your saving throw to resist reporting the serious threadcrap?

I understand that you may have made your saving throw to avoid talking about that here, and therefore do not expect a response.


----------



## billd91

niklinna said:


> What about your saving throw to resist reporting the serious threadcrap?


----------



## J.Quondam

Yeah, I failed my save. Sorry.  
But i didn't follow up, so there's that.


----------



## billd91

Sometimes, they just can't help themselves, can they?


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> Sometimes, they just can't help themselves, can they?



Sometimes?


----------



## South by Southwest

I just learned _Elvis_ got a *twelve-minute* standing ovation at the Cannes Film Festival. I am going to this movie.


----------



## billd91

prabe said:


> Sometimes?



I'm willing to postulate there *could* be one who could resist doing so...


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> I'm willing to postulate there *could* be one who could resist doing so...


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> I'm willing to postulate there *could* be one who could resist doing so...











						Rucoy Highlander GIF - Rucoy Highlander Bees Knees - Discover & Share GIFs
					

Click to view the GIF




					tenor.com


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## CleverNickName

Dang.  When those lurkers flame out, they _really _flame out, don't they?


----------



## Hussar

Mannahnin said:


> I've always heard "fuh" to rhyme with "uh", rather than "fah" to rhyme with "ha".
> 
> Though TBF, I don't have a lot of Vietnamese-speaking friends, so I'm getting it at least second-hand.  Unless I've heard a Vietnamese-speaker pronounce it on Youtube, maybe? Or I'm forgetting an older interaction.  That's also possible.



My Vietnamese friends pronounce it fuh UH- there's definitely two syllables there, with the "uh" sounding like the "u" in "but".  There's almost a glottal stop between the two "uh" sounds with a definite stress on the second one.  First time I heard it, I didn't even connect the pronunciation to the spelling.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 250635



Now I've got "Police On My Back" running through my head. Clash version, not The Equals version.

"What have I done...."


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> Dang.  When those lurkers flame out, they _really _flame out, don't they?



And they're always so effective.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

J.Quondam said:


> If English loan words were spelled sensibly, our spelling bees would be terribly boring.



Most other languages don't have spelling bees.


----------



## Hussar

Although, to be fair, in Japan they do have contests about Kanji (the Chinese characters) routinely.  Similar sort of thing.

----

Wowsers, watching a 5 year old account with less than 2 dozen posts commit suicide by post is both impressive and sad.  I just don't get it.

And, YUPPERS, made my saving throw to join into THAT conversation as well.  Two for two this week.  Dayum.

--------
And since we're talking about language, I've got one that bugs me more than pizza toppings.  Where the hairy heck did "on accident" come from?  It keeps cropping up in weird places and it's just so weird.  When did we suddenly replace one two letter preposition with another two letter preposition?  It's not like it even becomes easier to say.  Just bloody weird.


----------



## Parmandur

" I have come up with this convoluted scenario where a group of friends might successfully eat the pizza that they ordered and have a good time. Clearly the pizzeria has failed in designing a sufficiently challenging dining experience."


----------



## Ryujin

Hussar said:


> And since we're talking about language, I've got one that bugs me more than pizza toppings.  Where the hairy heck did "on accident" come from?  It keeps cropping up in weird places and it's just so weird.  When did we suddenly replace one two letter preposition with another two letter preposition?  It's not like it even becomes easier to say.  Just bloody weird.



It seems to be a regional thing. No one around here uses it but I've heard it, for example, in the American South.


----------



## Parmandur

Hussar said:


> And since we're talking about language, I've got one that bugs me more than pizza toppings.  Where the hairy heck did "on accident" come from?  It keeps cropping up in weird places and it's just so weird.  When did we suddenly replace one two letter preposition with another two letter preposition?  It's not like it even becomes easier to say.  Just bloody weird.



Google suggests that it is people regularizing the opposites of "accident" and "purpose." Traditionally, we do things "on purpose" but they happen "by accident." But "on accident" sounds less weird than "by purpose" if you want them to use the same preposition for consistency.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

.


Parmandur said:


> Google suggests that it is people regularizing the opposites of "accident" and "purpose." Traditionally, we do things "on purpose" but they happen "by accident." But "on accident" sounds less weird than "by purpose" if you want them to use the same preposition for consistency.




A prepositional consistency is the hobgoblin on small xvarts.


----------



## J.Quondam

It's a semantic conflation of "on purpose" and "by accident" among children in the American South. As we grow up, we learn to replace the implicit doubt with the phrase, "hold my beer."


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> It's a semantic conflation of "on purpose" and "by accident" among children in the American South. As we grow up, we learn to replace the implicit doubt with the phrase, "hold my beer."


----------



## Deset Gled

Oh hey there, Chinese spammers. Haven't seen you around for a little while. How have you been? The kids doing well in school? Say hello to you mother for me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Oh hey there, Chinese spammers. Haven't seen you around for a little while. How have you been? The kids doing well in school? Say hello to you mother for me.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Hussar said:


> Where the hairy heck did "on accident" come from? It keeps cropping up in weird places and it's just so weird. When did we suddenly replace one two letter preposition with another two letter preposition? It's not like it even becomes easier to say. Just bloody weird.



Oddly enough the written English part of my brain can not remember ever encountering this before and is reacting in rage and confusion, but the spoken English part of my brain feels like I might have been saying "on accident" in conversation my entire life.


----------



## trappedslider

so Disney is moving into horror


----------



## Fenris-77

I'm bored and over tired, so on another forum I posted enough to make Deadpool the only thing showing on the front page. I really need some solid sleep. It seemed funny at the time though, even if the last couple of posts were "Deadpool!".


----------



## Asisreo

trappedslider said:


> so Disney is moving into horror



Pinocchi- oh no!


----------



## prabe

I'm shocked--SHOCKED--that a request for advice from theorists has turned into (another) argument about terms.

NO ONE COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING


----------



## Cadence

I'm starting to wonder how many people make accounts on various sites just to be able to come back years later and use them to be obnoxious.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I'm shocked--SHOCKED--that a request for advice from theorists has turned into (another) argument about terms.
> 
> NO ONE COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING




Hey- jargon HELPS, remember.

Because as we all know, we are using GNS Pizza Theory. There are ONLY three types of pizza:

Good pizzas are pizzas without pineapple.
Nasty pizzas are pizzas with anchovies.
Superior pizzas are pizzas ordered in Italy.

Now, to understand this you have to go to the lengthy discussions:

Zeno: _I just order a pizza in Italy that had Pineapple. What type is it?_
Achilles: _Akshually, there is an essay from 2006 that explains that High Concept Nasty Pizzas are Pizzas that are ordered in Italy with either anchovies or pineapples on them._

Zeno: _I ordered a pizza in New Zealand that had canned spaghetti and M&Ms on it. Is that a G pizza?_
Achilles: _Of course not! As Tortoise explained, anyone who orders pizzas in New Zealand suffers from phantasms and delusions, because New Zealand is an imaginary nation, like Canada. Under the Big Theory that may not be questioned, that is a Nasty Pizza._

Zeno: _Now, if I order a pizza that is all toppings, but no sauce or crust or cheese, but is just the sausage topping, uncut, at Oktoberfest, in a bun, is that a G pizza?_
Achilles: _Well, it might be! In order to understand, I'd like to relay my very similar AE (actual eating) experience when I once ate ortolan with my head covered to avoid God's shame, which is exactly on point to what you are describing, and an example everyone is familiar with. _


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hey- jargon HELPS, remember.
> 
> Because as we all know, we are using GNS Pizza Theory. There are ONLY three types of pizza:
> 
> Good pizzas are pizzas without pineapple.
> Nasty pizzas are pizzas with anchovies.
> Superior pizzas are pizzas ordered in Italy.
> 
> Now, to understand this you have to go to the lengthy discussions:




This feels like it might tie in with how strange the English language and pronunciation is.  I've never seen the city pronounced "chi-CAH-go"  /ʃəˈkɔː.ɡo/  spelled "Italy" before.

Unless you're using "superior" as non-standard jargon to mean - ok stuff, but better stuff was developed later when they took into account outside influences.


----------



## dragoner

Throat Warbler Mangrove


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> This feels like it might tie in with how strange the English language and pronunciation is.  I've never seen the city pronounced "chi-CAH-go"  /ʃəˈkɔː.ɡo/  spelled "Italy" before.
> 
> Unless you're using "superior" as non-standard jargon to mean - ok stuff, but better stuff was developed later when they took into account outside influences.




Chicago-style pizzas are the ones you put ketchup on, right?


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Chicago-style pizzas are the ones you put ketchup on, right?




Ha.  

The transcendence of "tavern style", "deep dish", and "stuffed" given by the superior part of correctly interpreted GNS pizza theory is lost on those whose first exposure to pizza was one of the worst frozen kinds or chains.  I could go on forever how much damage is done to such people.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hey- jargon HELPS, remember.
> 
> Because as we all know, we are using GNS Pizza Theory. There are ONLY three types of pizza:
> 
> Good pizzas are pizzas without pineapple.
> Nasty pizzas are pizzas with anchovies.
> Superior pizzas are pizzas ordered in Italy.
> 
> Now, to understand this you have to go to the lengthy discussions:
> 
> Zeno: _I just order a pizza in Italy that had Pineapple. What type is it?_
> Achilles: _Akshually, there is an essay from 2006 that explains that High Concept Nasty Pizzas are Pizzas that are ordered in Italy with either anchovies or pineapples on them._
> 
> Zeno: _I ordered a pizza in New Zealand that had canned spaghetti and M&Ms on it. Is that a G pizza?_
> Achilles: _Of course not! As Tortoise explained, anyone who orders pizzas in New Zealand suffers from phantasms and delusions, because New Zealand is an imaginary nation, like Canada. Under the Big Theory that may not be questioned, that is a Nasty Pizza._
> 
> Zeno: _Now, if I order a pizza that is all toppings, but no sauce or crust or cheese, but is just the sausage topping, uncut, at Oktoberfest, in a bun, is that a G pizza?_
> Achilles: _Well, it might be! In order to understand, I'd like to relay my very similar AE (actual eating) experience when I once ate ortolan with my head covered to avoid God's shame, which is exactly on point to what you are describing, and an example everyone is familiar with. _



Please. The only thing imaginary about Canada, is Americans' Canadian girlfriends.


----------



## Mannahnin

Ryujin said:


> Please. The only thing imaginary about Canada, is Americans' Canadian girlfriends.



Hey, Katy-Kat is NOT imaginary!  She just lives in Letterkenny, is all.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Ha.
> 
> The transcendence of "tavern style", "deep dish", and "stuffed" given by the superior part of correctly interpreted GNS pizza theory is lost on those whose first exposure to pizza was one of the worst frozen kinds or chains.  I could go on forever how much damage is done to such people.




Look, I don't mean to be argumentative, but let's be clear here.

I reject Casserole First completely. GNS pizza theory was just cooked up by Tortoise in Chicago to justify the existence of Chicago-style pizzas, and doesn't tell us anything about the pizzas that _people actually eat_. Just because Tortoise uses VERBIAGE and WORDS and JARGON to justify getting really really drunk on Jeppson's Malört and inhaling a half-baked marinara casserole, doesn't mean that the rest of us, eating real pizza that simulates the actual pizza agendas in Italy, have to accept it.

Have you ever met someone from Chicago? I thought not. Word on the street is that Chicago is really just Toronto - that's right, a CANADIAN city, which as we all know is imaginary.

I don't even know what do with this:

Zeno: _What is a topping? I ate a Boston Cream Donut once. Is the chocolate on top the "topping?" Is a donut a pizza?_

Achilles: _Well, the donut is definitely a Casserole First pizza agenda. But you misunderstand what a "topping" is. As Tortoise explained, "A Topping is anything that goes under the sauce. A topping resides in the middle of a proper pizza." So while a donut is a pizza, the topping in question is the cream. I'm not sure how you could possible get something so simple so wrong!!??!!_


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Look, I don't mean to be argumentative, but let's be clear here.
> 
> I reject Casserole First completely. GNS pizza theory was just cooked up by Tortoise in Chicago to justify the existence of Chicago-style pizzas, and doesn't tell us anything about the pizzas that _people actually eat_. Just because Tortoise uses VERBIAGE and WORDS and JARGON to justify getting really really drunk on Jeppson's Malört and inhaling a half-baked marinara casserole, doesn't mean that the rest of us, eating real pizza that simulates the actual pizza agendas in Italy, have to accept it.
> 
> Have you ever met someone from Chicago? I thought not. Word on the street is that Chicago is really just Toronto - that's right, a CANADIAN city, which as we all know is imaginary.
> 
> I don't even know what do with this:
> 
> Zeno: _What is a topping? I ate a Boston Cream Donut once. Is the chocolate on top the "topping?" Is a donut a pizza?_
> 
> Achilles: _Well, the donut is definitely a Casserole First pizza agenda. But you misunderstand what a "topping" is. As Tortoise explained, "A Topping is anything that goes under the sauce. A topping resides in the middle of a proper pizza." So while a donut is a pizza, the topping in question is the cream. I'm not sure how you could possible get something so simple so wrong!!??!!_



I think, therefore I...

< POP! >


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Have you ever met someone from Chicago? I thought not. Word on the street is that Chicago is really just Toronto - that's right, a CANADIAN city, which as we all know is imaginary.




Chicago, or Chicago-land?


----------



## Cadence

Cadence said:


> Chicago, or Chicago-land?


----------



## Ryujin

Mannahnin said:


> Hey, Katy-Kat is NOT imaginary!  She just lives in Letterkenny, is all.



Oh, that's low. I believe that I've previously mentioned that I can't watch "Letterkenny" because it's too much like where I grew up, in Brampton, when the place had like 90K residents (it's more like 700K now)


----------



## dragoner

I live where we have both kinds of music.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> I live where we have both kinds of music.



Country and Western?


----------



## South by Southwest

dragoner said:


> Throat Warbler Mangrove



You know, years ago, I used to tell myself I wished we had such excitement in our elections.

I take it back.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> because it's too much like where I grew up,




Arguing a lot with your brother, eh?


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## CleverNickName

"My neighbors listen to some truly excellent music.  Whether they want to or not."
-teenage me


----------



## Mannahnin

I don't always listen to Black Sabbath.

But when I do, so do the neighbors.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Arguing a lot with your brother, eh?



That part of my life predates "Strange Brew" by 11 years and the SCTV stuff by 4. Hey, I should sue them for breach of copyright!


----------



## Cadence

"So, pretty much like how it will probably be soon in <US State 1B> and <US State 1C>?"


----------



## South by Southwest

Mannahnin said:


> I don't always listen to Black Sabbath.
> 
> But when I do, so do the neighbors.


----------



## Malmuria

wow you really want slavery in your fantasy elf game, huh?  And you want everyone else to have it as well.  That's the only way you'll feel seen.


----------



## trappedslider

If you can't make it as a paid show review just post your stuff on a forum


----------



## Hussar

That was like a really sad CinemaSins without the humour.


----------



## billd91

Don’t people, you know, negotiate or ally with creatures they encounter? Or is it Murder Hobo all the way?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Wow. People really, really hate it when something isn't specifically made for them. That thread, man.


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> Don’t people, you know, negotiate or ally with creatures they encounter?



If they have to.

I guess.


----------



## trappedslider

Hussar said:


> That was like a really sad CinemaSins without the humour.



that's a good description for all that user's postings about shows


----------



## BookTenTiger

Two things I really like about this forum:

1) I find myself "liking" posts by posters I frequently disagree with.

2) the "naughty word" filter. It can be really fun when someone doesn't know the etiquette around here.


----------



## South by Southwest

BookTenTiger said:


> 2) the "naughty word" filter. It can be really fun when someone doesn't know the etiquette around here.



Okay, this brings up a really good question for me: I don't know what the actual rules are for this. I know a few instances of, "Don't even _mention_ that term or you'll get a warning," but I've looked for and never found a comprehensive list or ruleset. Do we have one?


----------



## BookTenTiger

South by Southwest said:


> Okay, this brings up a really good question for me: I don't know what the actual rules are for this. I know a few instances of, "Don't even _mention_ that term or you'll get a warning," but I've looked for and never found a comprehensive list or ruleset. Do we have one?



I believe the guidelines is based on two things:

1) kids read this forum, so use age-appropriate language.

2) don't say things you wouldn't say to Eric Noah's Grandma.

I use that second rule in my classroom. If you wouldn't say it to my sweet old granny, don't say it in class!


----------



## niklinna

BookTenTiger said:


> I believe the guidelines is based on two things:
> 
> 1) kids read this forum, so use age-appropriate language.
> 
> 2) don't say things you wouldn't say to Eric Noah's Grandma.
> 
> I use that second rule in my classroom. If you wouldn't say it to my sweet old granny, don't say it in class!



My grandmas were sweet old ladies, but my Italian great-grandmother swore like a $%@*&!#.


----------



## BookTenTiger

niklinna said:


> My grandmas were sweet old ladies, but my Italian great-grandmother swore like a $%@*&!#.



Well, that's why it's not called the "Eric's Great-Grandma Rule."


----------



## Parmandur

niklinna said:


> My grandmas were sweet old ladies, but my Italian great-grandmother swore like a $%@*&!#.



Yeah, that rule wouldn't have worked with my Austruan Gramma...


----------



## el-remmen

Parmandur said:


> Yeah, that rule wouldn't have worked with my Austruan Gramma...



Back in the day 22 years ago when that rule was instituted, some people tried to weasel around the rule by saying that their _own_ grandma swore like a sailor and was racist, and whatever.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

BookTenTiger said:


> I believe the guidelines is based on two things:
> 
> 1) kids read this forum, so use age-appropriate language.
> 
> 2) don't say things you wouldn't say to Eric Noah's Grandma.
> 
> I use that second rule in my classroom. If you wouldn't say it to my sweet old granny, don't say it in class!



Good thing that it's not just "don't say things you wouldn't say to your own Grandma". Some people (including me) have really terrible grandmothers that they would absolutely use foul language at.


----------



## Parmandur

el-remmen said:


> Back in the day 22 years ago when that rule was instituted, some people tried to weasel around the rule by saying that their _own_ grandma swore like a sailor and was racist, and whatever.



I mean, playing Scrabble with my Gramma was an education in vocabulary, outside of the actual playing...


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> I mean, playing Scrabble with my Gramma was an education in vocabulary, outside of the actual playing...



Did you ever see that movie with Robert Hays (of _Airplane!_ fame), trapped on a balcony of a high-rise, outside the apartment of these two little old ladies playing Scrabble with nothing but the foulest of words? Trying to remember the name....

Edit: Correction! Robert Hays was in a film where he was on a balcony—_Cat's Eye_. But I mixed that up with another film, _Foul Play_, which had Goldie Hawn trapped on a fire escape. You can find it on youtube under "Old Ladies Play Scrabble in Foul Play".


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Good thing that it's not just "don't say things you wouldn't say to your own Grandma". Some people (including me) have really terrible grandmothers that they would absolutely use foul language at.



My father's mother was a Karen who made her kids go hungry so that she could buy $50.00 shoes (that's 1950s money) and the wife of a coal miner. My mother's (step)mother was a rather large, lazy woman who would use her expansive Maritimer vocabulary to badger all and sundry until they did her bidding, and the (wife of a prison guard. No one wants me using _their_ vocabulary around here.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Ryujin said:


> My father's mother was a Karen who made her kinds go hungry so that she could buy $50.00 shoes (that's 1950s money) and the wife of a coal miner. My mother's (step)mother was a rather large, lazy woman who would use her expansive Maritimer vocabulary to badger all and sundry until they did her bidding, and the (wife of a prison guard. No one wants me using _their_ vocabulary around here.



My mother's mother _was _a mentally unstable religious fanatic that allowed her abusive husband to sexually abuse most of their 13 children and only divorced him once he was excommunicated from the church they were members of (which was after all of her kids had grown up and moved out, btw). My father's mother _is _a textbook narcissist that emotionally manipulates and verbally abuses anyone in the family that doesn't give her control of their lives. I stopped having contact with that side of the family once I turned 18.


----------



## dragoner

I am sorry to hear that.


----------



## South by Southwest

I mean, at least I'm not the only one who's feeling cranky these days...


----------



## Cadence

Some related topics to that would be less yeuchy if alignment wasn't a thing.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Some related topics to that would be less yeuchy if alignment wasn't a thing.



Man, I just realized that most Pizza isn't Kosher. I feel a new rabbit trail coming up...


----------



## Parmandur

Kosher Pizza report: apparently Kosher Pizzerias do very, very cool things with sauces, herbs, and sundry veggies.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> Kosher Pizza report: apparently Kosher Pizzerias do very, very cool things with sauces, herbs, and sundry veggies.



Do tell! My around-the-corner pizzeria does a great cheeseless vegan pizza, it probably happens to be kosher. But I've never heard of an actual kosher pizzeria.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Parmandur

niklinna said:


> Do tell! My around-the-corner pizzeria does a great cheeseless vegan pizza, it probably happens to be kosher. But I've never heard of an actual kosher pizzeria.



It seems to be a bit more complex than that, because for really Kosher considerations different utensils and cooking surfaces are necessary, so real Kosher pizza has to be homemade or come from specialized resteraunts.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> It seems to be a bit more complex than that, because for really Kosher considerations different utensils and cooking surfaces are necessary, so real Kosher pizza has to be homemade or come from specialized resteraunts.



Good point! I know they use the same cutting wheel on all their pizza. But still, you implied that there are kosher pizzerias in the San Francsico Bay Area, and I wanna know!


----------



## Parmandur

niklinna said:


> Good point! I know they use the same cutting wheel on all their pizza. But still, you implied that there are kosher pizzerias in the San Francsico Bay Area, and I wanna know!



I actually havenfound one local, but they are in Los Angeles and New York. Investigation is ongoing.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> I actually havenfound one local, but they are in Los Angeles and New York. Investigation is ongoing.



NOTED


----------



## Parmandur

niklinna said:


> NOTED



I found a Koaher Sushi joint on Fabian Way in Palo Alto, not really certain what the Kosher implications of Sushi even are.


----------



## prabe

niklinna said:


> Do tell! My around-the-corner pizzeria does a great cheeseless vegan pizza, it probably happens to be kosher. But I've never heard of an actual kosher pizzeria.



I know it's not the same thing, but our regular pizza place is _halal_. It's not unheard-of around here, but I'm sure that varies.


----------



## Parmandur

prabe said:


> I know it's not the same thing, but our regular pizza place is _halal_. It's not unheard-of around here, but I'm sure that varies.



Yeah, there are no halal prohibitions against mixing meat and dairy, so easily doable.


----------



## niklinna

Parmandur said:


> Yeah, there are no halal prohibitions against mixing meat and dairy, so easily doable.



But what about the sauces, the herbs, the sundry veggies? SO CURIOUS


----------



## Parmandur

niklinna said:


> But what about the sauces, the herbs, the sundry veggies? SO CURIOUS



For your elucidation:






						Menu | Shalom Pizza (Kosher)
					

Shalom Pizza Menu, Los Angeles Kosher Pizza Menu




					shalompizza.com


----------



## payn

Yikes, think I'll stay in the shadows for that one...


----------



## Hussar

Wow.  Booted from the site in under a week.  That's impressive.


----------



## Cadence

Still dies to the quasar dragon.


----------



## Cadence

The solstice always feels a lot more "midsummer day" to me than "first day of summer"...


----------



## Hussar

Holy crap.  Good lord, I thought it got hot here.  We're still in the mid 20's during the day.  Been loving the weather this year to be honest.  August is going to be those kinds of temperatures.  Yikes.


----------



## Cadence

Hussar said:


> Holy crap.  Good lord, I thought it got hot here.  We're still in the mid 20's during the day.  Been loving the weather this year to be honest.  August is going to be those kinds of temperatures.  Yikes.



My friends from Florida laugh when us folks in South Carolina mention the heat and humidity.  This is a bit unusual for early June for us I think. We usually have a few weeks each summer with consistent highs of 100 F or so and not getting below 80F until after 2am.  They're more common in July and August. 

I'm not looking forward to the reports from Central America this summer and in the coming decades :-(


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> My friends from Florida laugh when us folks in South Carolina mention the heat and humidity.
> 
> I'm not looking forward to the reports from Central America this summer and in the coming decades :-(



From what I can tell--living some bit up the East Coast from you--it's not that it gets all that much hotter or more humid; it's that it *doesn't let up.*


----------



## dragoner

It'll be 90's here, and way humid, I just took the garbage out, and my shoes were soaked from going through the grass.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> The solstice always feels a lot more "midsummer day" to me than "first day of summer"...
> 
> 
> View attachment 250928


----------



## Cadence

I'm usually good with the heat later in the day.  It's that "feels like the 90s" when I still need to walk across campus after a late bagel for breakfast...


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I'm usually good with the heat later in the day.  It's that "feels like the 90s" when I still need to walk across campus after a late bagel for breakfast...



My favorite is when the dew point and the temperature are the same (like 80F) and it's not raining.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> My favorite is when the dew point and the temperature are the same (like 80F) and it's not raining.



76% humidity and dew point 75 right now (to go with the 83 degrees). Do we want a high dew point or low one for comfort?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> 76% humidity and dew point 75 right now (to go with the 83 degrees). Do we want a high dew point or low one for comfort?



As the dew point rises to get closer to the air temperature, the humidity goes up. I personally find dew point easier to grok at a glance than relative humidity (it doesn't change with temperature) but different people think differently.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> 76% humidity and dew point 75 right now (to go with the 83 degrees). Do we want a high dew point or low one for comfort?



Ideally, you want something lower than 60 for dew point. In my HVAC work for a major corporate retailer, we program for 54 in our stores. (Some places easier to maintain than others!)


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## Cadence

Wait, you want people to actually think through the implications of their proposals for a few seconds before posting?  On the internet!?!?


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> Wait, you want people to actually think through the implications of their proposals for a few seconds before posting?  On the internet!?!?



But...but what would happen to Twitter? _"Our sales would plummet!"_


----------



## Gradine

Hussar said:


> That was like a really sad CinemaSins without the humour.



I feel like that the back half of that phrase is redundant.

Speaking of awful grandmothers, my daughter's grandma (my mother) posted a transphobic meme on Facebook two hours after I was tagged in some pictures of me dressed fancily for a Bridgerton Party.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## South by Southwest

Sheesh...now I gotta go watch _The Sopranos_ again.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> Sheesh...now I gotta go watch _The Sopranos_ again.



You keep trying to get out...and they pull you right back in!


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## trappedslider

should be it's own thread









						Google Engineer Thinks an AI Has Become Sentient – Google Disagrees - IGN
					

Google reportedly suspended a software engineer for violating its confidentiality policies after he claimed that the tech giant's AI chatbot had become sentient.




					www.ign.com


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


>


----------



## Cadence

The weather is better than some of the choices on the primary ballot this morning...


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> The weather is better than some of the choices on the primary ballot this morning...
> 
> View attachment 250987



Looks like Twin Cities is just a few degrees cooler but 72 dew point so likely worse.


----------



## Ryujin

The Toronto area is supposed to hit roughly 90F for the second time in 3 weeks. Good thing I've already put in the window rattlers.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> The Toronto area is supposed to hit roughly 90F for the second time in 3 weeks. Good thing I've already put in the window rattlers.



Window rattler?


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> Window rattler?


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


>



Oh, right! Derp.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


>



No drips here. I cant mine properly


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Looks like Twin Cities is just a few degrees cooler but 72 dew point so likely worse.





Ryujin said:


> The Toronto area is supposed to hit roughly 90F for the second time in 3 weeks. Good thing I've already put in the window rattlers.



Wow, I'm sorry, guys. Where I am it's something like 65°F right now.


----------



## CleverNickName

Unpopular opinion:  I hate summer.

Sweltering heat, smothering humidity.
Pollen and poison ivy.
Choose: a head-to-toe sunburn, or a head-to-toe coating of greasy foul-smelling sunscreen.
Mosquitoes and ticks and chiggars and other blood-sucking abominations that _literally_ get under my skin.
Wildfires and diminished air quiality.
Sleepless nights spent tossing around on sweaty bedsheets.  And not in the fun way.
Crowded beaches.  Traffic jams. 
Noisy neighbors made even noisier by open windows.

Ugh.  Is it Halloween yet?


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> Wow, I'm sorry, guys. Where I am it's something like 65°F right now.



We're at a nice, comfortable 75F at the moment, but we've been getting these weird spikes. I was hoping to be able to leave the windows open for weeks longer, for the fresh air, but when those waves hit it becomes oppressive.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Unpopular opinion:
> I hate summer.
> 
> Sweltering heat, smothering humidity.
> Pollen and poison ivy.
> Choose: a head-to-toe sunburn, or a head-to-toe coating of greasy foul-smelling sunscreen.
> Mosquitoes and ticks and chiggars and other blood-sucking abominations that _literally_ get under my skin.
> Wildfires and diminished air quiality.
> Sleepless nights spent tossing around on sweaty bedsheets.  And not in the fun way.
> Crowded beaches.  Traffic jams.
> Noisy neighbors made even noisier by open windows.
> 
> Ugh.  Is it Halloween yet?



This works well for my pasty white British Isles pallor and isn't overly greasy. Costs a bunch though.


----------



## Gradine

I've lived over half my life on the coast of Northern California to get AWAY from the heat. It is hard to argue with weather that is 55-65 F year-round.


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> I've lived over half my life on the coast of Northern California to get AWAY from the heat. It is hard to argue with weather that is 55-65 F year-round.



While I like some seasons better than others, I am happy to live in a part of the world that experiences all four of them. Different people have different preferences--imagine that.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> While I like some seasons better than others, I am happy to live in a part of the world that experiences all four of them. Different people have different preferences--imagine that.



There are only two seasons, winter and road construction.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> There are only two seasons, winter and road construction.



We live in MD, and went on a vacation to places of natural beauty in SD and WY. We experienced much of the road construction--especially coming home, when it conspired with time zones to make the drives much less pleasant.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> There are only two seasons, winter and road construction.



I used to live in the Twin Cities right after grad school, and the truth of this Minnesotan saying has to be experienced before one really can understand it.


----------



## Mannahnin

New Hampshire has the classic four seasons (imagine thick Pepperidge Farm old-timer accent) "Fall, Wintah, Black Fly and Construction".

Winter gets pretty cold but only really bitter in Jan and Feb, usually.  

Late Summer can get a bit nasty with heat + humidity.

Our Autumns and Spring to early Summer are gorgeous.  Early Spring can be a bit rainy and chill, and then give you a truly spectacular warm and windy day out of nowhere like the gods rewarding you for hanging on through Winter.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> poison ivy.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> No drips here. I cant mine properly



Well, I cant even.


----------



## Cadence

Cadence said:


> The weather is better than some of the choices on the primary ballot this morning...




We had a big thunderstorm before noon, and atypically the cloud cover and lower temperatures stayed!!!  Have been below 80 for a while.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> We had a big thunderstorm before noon, and atypically the cloud cover and lower temperatures stayed!!!  Have been below 80 for a while.



Cloudy, like its gonna storm, its 94 with 70 dew point anyways.


----------



## payn

*Original poster*: I always wanted to do X in my games. Anybody done X and know of any TTRPGs that do X?
*Thread*: Sure are and do! Here are our experiences, links to blogs, and suggested TTRPGs to use to do X.
*Original Poster*: Hmm, looks the answer is no; X can not be done in TTRPGs.
*Rest of thread*:


----------



## billd91

You know, some posts that probably feel like sage wisdom or perceptiveness to the poster... really look more like prejudice to the rest of us.


----------



## Gradine

I know that it's barely if at all on-topic, but it's really difficult to allow anyone to legitimize any of the misogynistic dreck JP peddles


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> I know that it's barely if at all on-topic, but it's really difficult to allow anyone to legitimize any of the misogynistic dreck JP peddles



Checking my understanding: "JP" is a Canuckian shrink? If so, I agree.


----------



## Retreater

Gradine said:


> I know that it's barely if at all on-topic, but it's really difficult to allow anyone to legitimize any of the misogynistic dreck JP peddles



I've gone down the JP rabbit hole, and I have a lot of opinions. However, they'd be in violation of the rules of the board. But suffice it to say, I'm not a fan.


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> I know that it's barely if at all on-topic, but it's really difficult to allow anyone to legitimize any of the misogynistic dreck JP peddles



Thankfully he isn't tenured at MY university, but rather the one a few miles west.


----------



## dragoner

Screw that guy.


----------



## CleverNickName

Re: JP
I have nothing nice to say.  And per my grandmother's rule, that's all I'm gonna say.


----------



## Gradine

_Eppur si muove_


----------



## CleverNickName

"Let's play D&D!"

"Cool!  That's my favorite game."

"First a few house rules for my D&D game: no dragonborn or gnomes.  No humans, dwarves, elves, halflings, tieflings, or tabaxi either.  We don't use alignment, we don't use experience points, and we don't use armor class.  Swords are called 'machetes,' magic is called 'psionics,' and there's only one character class called the Gishrogue.  You won't be fighting dragons, you'll fight oozes...and you don't fight them in dungeons, you fight them in swamps.  And the big one: we don't roll any dice, we resolve things by playing rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock.  Sound good?"

"No, that does not sound good.  Are you sure you're still playing D&D?"

"Of course we are!  Weren't you even listening?  It's literally the first thing I said!"


----------



## Cadence

And no, we are not making anything that can be remotely thought of as a story.


----------



## J.Quondam

Once again, I must just...  wut?


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Once again, I must just...  wut?



That pretty much sums it up, dunnit?


----------



## Malmuria

If you are documenting the estates of fictional nobles you are doing entirely too much prep.


----------



## prabe

Malmuria said:


> If you are documenting the estates of fictional nobles you are doing entirely too much prep.



You should allow the estates and the nobles to emerge from play, as a result of action resolution checks.


----------



## prabe

Oh. You seem fun. Dunno what you think you're adding to the thread.


----------



## Mezuka

Star Wars grognards = Sgronards.


----------



## Mannahnin

Malmuria said:


> If you are documenting the estates of fictional nobles you are doing entirely too much prep.



Unless you're playing Pendragon.


----------



## Gradine

If The Contessa's Daughter's Polycule and Her Mother's Coven Are Feuding, Is She Justified In Trapping Them In The Labyrinth on the Next Blood Moon?


----------



## Mannahnin

Miss Manners has apparently gotten into way more interesting questions since I was a kid.


----------



## payn

Got two internal interviews today. One at 11am and another at 1pm. Doing this virtual is going to be interesting...


----------



## Retreater

payn said:


> Got two internal interviews today. One at 11am and another at 1pm. Doing this virtual is going to be interesting...



May the Force live long and be forever in your favor.


----------



## prabe

Mannahnin said:


> Miss Manners has apparently gotten into way more interesting questions since I was a kid.



These verbose questions *do* seem to be better suited to Judith Martin than to anyone likely to be on the forum, don't they?


----------



## South by Southwest

I absolutely _love_ stomping into threads on subjects about which I have no knowledge whatsoever and then ogling all sorts of information about other people's lives and livelihoods. Forming and professing all sorts of opinions about it from behind a veil of ignorance is icing on my socially voyeuristic cake!


----------



## billd91

South by Southwest said:


> voyeuristic cake



Mmmmm... voyeuristic cake.


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> May the Force live long and be forever in your favor.



One down. Started strong, rambled a little in the middle, but think I came back strong again in the end. The virtual bit isn't so bad. I can fidget my leg like a jackrabbit and nobody knows!


----------



## Cadence

I'd like to imagine there was at least one reality where it was true.


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> I'd like to imagine there was at least one reality where it was true.



Well, the multiverse is a pretty capacious place, especially if you're using David Lewis' version of it. I'd say you've decent odds.


----------



## payn

Well, its over for now. Second interview done. Think it went well. Now I can relax and prepare for my Traveller game tonight! Been a long week cant wait to unwind.


----------



## payn

Should have known better then to get involved. Better late to get out than never.


----------



## Gradine

Well, that was the most horrendous thing I've seen someone say on this board in a long time, which is _really saying something_


----------



## Cadence

Have there always been a huge group of people who absolutely refuse to be introspective for a second before getting verbally defensive and who essentially never admit a mistake?  Is it just the omnipresence of social media and 24 hour news stations that makes it seem to be more common?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Have there always been a huge group of people who absolutely refuse to be introspective for a second before getting verbally defensive and who essentially never admit a mistake?  Is it just the omnipresence of social media and 24 hour news stations that makes it seem to be more common?



Yes, as well as effects like recency bias.


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> Have there always been a huge group of people who absolutely refuse to be introspective for a second before *getting verbally defensive and who essentially never admit a mistake?*



I do think social media has made this more common and more intense. Admitting error is now tantamount to admitting weakness, which is a deadly offense.

Honesty is no longer a virtue.


----------



## Parmandur

Cadence said:


> Have there always been a huge group of people who absolutely refuse to be introspective for a second before getting verbally defensive and who essentially never admit a mistake?  Is it just the omnipresence of social media and 24 hour news stations that makes it seem to be more common?



Yes, it's called Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Therapy can help, but obviously refusing to admit error gets in the way of treatment.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> I do think social media has made this more common and more intense. Admitting error is now tantamount to admitting weakness, which is a deadly offense.
> 
> Honesty is no longer a virtue.



My work in Medieval Studies has convinced me that people haven't changed a bit, we just have more efficient communication tech.


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> My work in Medieval Studies has convinced me that people haven't changed a bit, we just have more efficient communication tech.



That sounds plausible to me. There is this wrinkle, though: humans are mimics at heart, and when the things we interact with most are these fast, easy, nonexistent virtual places and fast, easy, glowing devices, out minds come to resemble them a bit.


----------



## Ryujin

Parmandur said:


> My work in Medieval Studies has convinced me that people haven't changed a bit, we just have more efficient communication tech.



And so the "tribes" are bigger. Even the fringe ones.


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> My work in Medieval Studies has convinced me that people haven't changed a bit, we just have more efficient communication tech.


----------



## Cadence

Does pineapple or tuna make calzones or stromboli soggy?  (Is the moisture unable to escape like it can for a pizza?)


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Does pineapple or tuna make calzones or stromboli soggy?  (Is the moisture unable to escape like it can for a pizza?)



Seriously? Like, are you just opening cans and dumping them into your food? This might explain why so many people have issue with pineapple...


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Seriously? Like, are you just opening cans and dumping them into your food? This might explain why so many people have issue with pineapple...



I assume the pineapple and tuna were drained first.   But pineapple feels like it has a lot more easily releasable moisture than onions, peppers, and mushrooms.  And tuna more moisture (as opposed to grease) than pepperoni.


----------



## CleverNickName

In my experience, pineapple is one of those pizza toppings that needs to be cooked twice for best results.  Arrange the pineapple rings on parchment paper, and pre-cook them in the oven for a few minutes...just until they start showing a little bit of caramelization.  Then cut them into tidbits and arrange them on your pizza.  (In all cases, fresh ingredients are always better than canned.  Pineapple is no exception to this rule.)

Just pulling them out of the can and slapping them down with the rest of the raw toppings will _technically_ work...but people say the same thing about canned mushrooms.  I suspect that canned, soggy mushrooms are the reason so many people are disgusted by mushrooms on pizza.

As for tuna?  No idea, I don't think I've ever had tuna on a pizza.  (Anchovies, sure, but not tuna.)


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> As for tuna?  No idea, I don't think I've ever had tuna on a pizza.  (Anchovies, sure, but not tuna.)




As I remember it, it tasted just like I imagined globs of tuna from a can would taste on a pizza...


----------



## Mezuka

If you prefer Fate and sh!t on D&D all the time why are you spending so much time on a D&D forum? Crapping on other people's fun doesn't create converts it does the opposite. Maybe they tried Fate and really didn't like it at all (and yes they played well and understood it) and chose D&D for what it is, instead.


----------



## Cadence

(Not in response to any post in this thread)

No seriously, it is ok to actually spend 30 seconds trying to think through the implications of the inane stuff you're posting.  And if you already did, for Pete's sake, seek help.


----------



## payn

I see the "published adventure writers are not fit to shine my shoes" crowd has arrived.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

payn said:


> I see the "published adventure writers are not fit to shine my shoes" crowd has arrived.



Writing is so easy when you've never had to make it comprehensible to anyone but yourself.


----------



## Retreater

payn said:


> I see the "published adventure writers are not fit to shine my shoes" crowd has arrived.



Let me at 'em. I'm definitely fit to shine shoes.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Gradine said:


> If The Contessa's Daughter's Polycule and Her Mother's Coven Are Feuding, Is She Justified In Trapping Them In The Labyrinth on the Next Blood Moon?



She's justified in trapping them in a labyrinth of at least 1,276,432 square feet, but not until 11 Blood Moons from whenever the Arch-Baron's third Cousin completes his 2.7 year degree in Labyrinth management from the fourth best university in the kingdom.


----------



## payn

On second thought, just read an article about a Swiss company looking to do a team bonding event. Walk across hot coals. The result? 25 people sent to hospital


----------



## Hussar

No, no, you are doing it all wrong.  Everything wrong MUST be the fault of Millenials and zoomers.  Boomers and Xers are what made us great and we need to be great again.  Our parents and grandparents were the paragons of our countries, and we must shift any and all blame for any mistakes or problems onto anyone who isn't us because, well, it's never, EVER our fault for anything.

Chip on my shoulder you say?  Naw.  No idea what you're talking about.


----------



## Retreater

Hussar said:


> Boomers and Xers are what made us great and we need to be great again.



I've never heard anyone say a positive thing about Xers. We even hate ourselves.


----------



## Hussar

Retreater said:


> I've never heard anyone say a positive thing about Xers. We even hate ourselves.



Well, yeah, but since the boomers are largely dying out now, give another decade or so, it's like the Xer's, my fellow X'ers anyway, seem to be lining right up to fall in step.  Something about turning 50+ seems to do something to people.  People I grew up with and talked to regularly have taking this sharp right turn and it's just so mind blowingly weird to see.


----------



## Gradine

Wow, that thread suddenly has a lot fewer posts in it! Weird how that always seems to happen


----------



## Mezuka

Hussar said:


> Well, yeah, but since the boomers are largely dying out now, give another decade or so, it's like the Xer's, my fellow X'ers anyway, seem to be lining right up to fall in step.  Something about turning 50+ seems to do something to people.  People I grew up with and talked to regularly have taking this sharp right turn and it's just so mind blowingly weird to see.




I would say most people are conservative by nature. A lot of my high school buddies didn't become conservative, they were conservatives by default. They just didn't realized it until they became afraid to loose their pension plan if the economic system changes too much.

People look and talk differently at me now that I look visibly older (57). They assume I'm an right wing old fart because I'm older. I often have to repeat what I say twice because they don't actually hear my left wing stance on issues on the first attempt to communicate with younger people.


----------



## Cadence

Mezuka said:


> I would say most people are conservative by nature. A lot of my high school buddies didn't become conservative, they were conservatives by default. They just didn't realized it until they became afraid to loose their pension plan if the economic system changes too much.
> 
> People look and talk differently at me now that I look visibly older (57). They assume I'm an right wing old fart because I'm older. I often have to repeat what I say twice because they don't actually hear my left wing stance on issues on the first attempt to communicate with younger people.




Waves hand when it comes my turn at the meeting of the side that's really bad at game-theory in real life situations not-so-anonymous:
 "Hi, I'm an X-er who would like to be able to retire around, say 68."

"There are these things called math and history. <Insert rant on social democracy vs democratic socialism>.  <Insert rant on the vast differences in living wages by metro area in the US and the effects>. <Insert rant on what half of the total amount could do if divided among the rest of that generation>. <Insert rants on everything else getting on my social media lawn from the others in the room.>"

And then the meeting is over and we missed  <Insert probably agreement on a lot of pretty big things> and so still have no unity on anything economic in this group that would apparently be mostly labeled center-left (if not center) in lots of other countries.


----------



## Ryujin

Nevermind. I shouldn't have gone there. Sorry for leaning into the political.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> I would say that a goodly chunk of people are simply selfish by nature and that presents itself as conservatism.




It feels like the policies that help one's selfish needs change over age and means.  And some combinations of what help selfish goals for different combinations of age and means are better at masquerading as, or overlapping with, charity at one end and  greed at the other.

----

I've thought it would be neat to have a TV show where everyone on earth has three numbers appear on their heads and no one knows what they signify at first.  Through the course of the season they're discovered to be something that represents circumstance of birth, luck since then, and hard work.   You could do different numbers for a second season (compassion, greed, and stress?).


----------



## Retreater

It doesn't help that we have one political party in the US that couldn't sell ice water in the Sahara. Without getting into politics, and just discussing the messaging, I was watching a video from a prominent politician. It was geared specifically for "normal people, to explain economics for them." 
And right off the bat he starts throwing around terms like "oligarchy," lecturing the audience like he's a college professor.
Now I would be amazed if 5% of Americans know what "oligarchy" means, but I can tell you that 99% wouldn't like the condescending tone. And this is from probably the most celebrated politician on one side of American politics.


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> I've never heard anyone say a positive thing about Xers. We even hate ourselves.



Really? Since when did us xers even care enough to hate ourselves?


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Really? Since when did us xers even care enough to hate ourselves?



In high school, my graduating class tried to officially name ourselves the "I don't care class of '91," but no one bothered to vote on it.


----------



## Parmandur

Mezuka said:


> I would say most people are conservative by nature. A lot of my high school buddies didn't become conservative, they were conservatives by default. They just didn't realized it until they became afraid to loose their pension plan if the economic system changes too much.
> 
> People look and talk differently at me now that I look visibly older (57). They assume I'm an right wing old fart because I'm older. I often have to repeat what I say twice because they don't actually hear my left wing stance on issues on the first attempt to communicate with younger people.



Aristotle thought political positions were more or less determined by the balance of bodily Humors and the positionof the stars, and substituting a modern scientific understanding of the phenomenon he was analyzing, he had some valid points about personality and situation taking priority over ideals for most people.


----------



## trappedslider

Internet Explorer gravestone goes viral in South Korea
					

For Jung Ki-young, a South Korean software engineer, Microsoft Corp's decision to retire its Internet Explorer web browser marked the end of a quarter-century love-hate relationship with the technology.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> Internet Explorer gravestone goes viral in South Korea
> 
> 
> For Jung Ki-young, a South Korean software engineer, Microsoft Corp's decision to retire its Internet Explorer web browser marked the end of a quarter-century love-hate relationship with the technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



Gates says he used up all the chips in the vaxx. Had to quit IE.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Look, I used to be tolerant and all. And then just a few years ago, around when Trump started running for office, it all became crystal clear to me. Sure, you won't see it if you follow the mainstream media narrative, but once you realize the Truth, everything else just falls into place. It's obvious why things are as bad now as they are! It's all because we let _them _do their weird rituals and things in the shadows. Just let them wave their brightly-colored flags all over the place. Just let them carry on, like what they were doing wasn't an unnatural affront to God and the Bible.

I'm talking, of course, about the Jocks! They've taken over! They've infiltrated every level of society, and it's all going downhill because of them!


----------



## South by Southwest

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Look, I used to be tolerant and all. And then just a few years ago, around when Trump started running for office, it all became crystal clear to me. Sure, you won't see it if you follow the mainstream media narrative, but once you realize the Truth, everything else just falls into place. It's obvious why things are as bad now as they are! It's all because we let _them _do their weird rituals and things in the shadows. Just let them wave their brightly-colored flags all over the place. Just let them carry on, like what they were doing wasn't an unnatural affront to God and the Bible.
> 
> I'm talking, of course, about the Jocks! They've taken over! They've infiltrated every level of society, and it's all going downhill because of them!


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


>



Just don't watch the Turner version, or you'll have no idea what happened halfway through


----------



## South by Southwest

Ryujin said:


> Just don't watch the Turner version, or you'll have no idea what happened halfway through



I didn't know there was a Turner version. So did they edit out all the spicy moments?


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> I didn't know there was a Turner version. So did they edit out all the spicy moments?



They did indeed. They cut it to the point that you literally have no idea why the sorority girl is suddenly with the head nerd.


----------



## South by Southwest

Snarf makes a thread about why jargon is bad. In under a week, that thread becomes a hotbed of jargon and jargon-soaked theory debates having nothing to do with the thread topic. What's remarkable to me isn't that this has happened, mind you; what's remarkable is how predictable it was. We saw it coming, didn't we?


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> Snarf makes a thread about why jargon is bad. In under a week, that thread becomes a hotbed of jargon and jargon-soaked theory debates having nothing to do with the thread topic. What's remarkable to me isn't that this has happened, mind you; what's remarkable is how predictable it was. We saw it coming, didn't we?



Yes. We most certainly did.


----------



## Deset Gled

South by Southwest said:


> Snarf makes a thread about why jargon is bad. In under a week, that thread becomes a hotbed of jargon and jargon-soaked theory debates having nothing to do with the thread topic. What's remarkable to me isn't that this has happened, mind you; what's remarkable is how predictable it was. We saw it coming, didn't we?




Predictable? I thought that was the goal.


----------



## prabe

Deset Gled said:


> Predictable? I thought that was the goal.



At a minimum, I think it proves Snarf's point. Well, maybe not the point Snarf had in mind for that thread, but a point they've been making.


----------



## Gradine

My favorite thing is when bad faith trolls start terrible tangents that probably shouldn't go unaddressed which snowballs and then the thread gets shut down, which is what the trolls actually wanted all along


----------



## Malmuria

South by Southwest said:


> Snarf makes a thread about why jargon is bad. In under a week, that thread becomes a hotbed of jargon and jargon-soaked theory debates having nothing to do with the thread topic. What's remarkable to me isn't that this has happened, mind you; what's remarkable is how predictable it was. We saw it coming, didn't we?



It’s impressive that that thread is now generating new jargon, which is then debated leading to the introduction of even more new jargon.  Resistance is futile.


----------



## dragoner

What if we got rid of the dice and books? Then the real role-playing can begin.


----------



## J.Quondam

Sometimes the description of a very small kingdom is bigger that the very small kingdom.


----------



## niklinna

J.Quondam said:


> Sometimes the description of a very small kingdom is bigger that the very small kingdom.



Egad, you just out-Borgesed Borges!


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Sometimes the description of a very small kingdom is bigger that the very small kingdom.



Well if that small kingdom has a Q Bomb...


----------



## Davies

J.Quondam said:


> Sometimes the description of a very small kingdom is bigger that the very small kingdom.



... I'm pretty sure that's not the case, as the smallest sovereign state on Earth still covers .44 square kilometers, which would require a bit more than 7000 pages of paper to cover. Unless the written description of that region would take more than 7100 pages of paper, it would not be larger than it.


----------



## CleverNickName

Davies said:


> ... I'm pretty sure that's not the case, as the smallest sovereign state on Earth still covers .44 square kilometers, which would require a bit more than 7000 pages of paper to cover. Unless the written description of that region would take more than 7100 pages of paper, it would not be larger than it.



It's all about the font size.


----------



## Davies

CleverNickName said:


> It's all about the font size.



Ah, you're right. I failed to take that into consideration.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Well if that small kingdom has a Q Bomb...



Ladies and gentlemen, this is not the end of the film. However, something like this might easily happen, and we thought we should put you in the proper mood. And now, back to our story.


----------



## Ryujin

Davies said:


> ... I'm pretty sure that's not the case, as the smallest sovereign state on Earth still covers .44 square kilometers, which would require a bit more than 7000 pages of paper to cover. Unless the written description of that region would take more than 7100 pages of paper, it would not be larger than it.



Sealand is 0.004 square Km. Being a knight of said place, I have must know.


----------



## Davies

Ryujin said:


> Sealand is 0.004 square Km. Being a knight of said place, I have must know.



... could it be described in less than 70 pages with a font size of 12 points or less?


----------



## trappedslider

Davies said:


> ... could it be described in less than 70 pages with a font size of 12 points or less?



Depends on the writer if it's Tolkien..it will take a chapter along with a chart in the appendix


----------



## Ryujin

Davies said:


> ... could it be described in less than 70 pages with a font size of 12 points or less?



By a real estate agent, or by HP Lovecraft?


----------



## Davies

Ryujin said:


> By a real estate agent, or by HP Lovecraft?



By a Fodor's Travel Guide writer.

You know what, forget it, this joke has been taken as far as it can possibly go.


----------



## trappedslider

Davies said:


> By a Fodor's Travel Guide writer.
> 
> You know what, forget it, this joke has been taken as far as it can possibly go.



Mostly Harmless


----------



## deganawida

payn said:


> If we are doing movie reviews here now, G.I Joe Snake Eyes is bad.



I couldn’t even get to the halfway point. Seriously bad film. And I’m saying this as someone who vastly prefers the cartoon to the comic (watched cartoon after school, didn’t get the comics until much later).


----------



## Cadence

"Pizza works great with any toppings.  The only reason pepperoni, sausage, mushrooms, pineapple and the other usual stuff is so popular is that most folks were told that's how it should be and never tried anything else. "


----------



## AnotherGuy

Cadence said:


> "Pizza works great with any toppings.  The only reason pepperoni, sausage, mushrooms, pineapple and the other usual stuff is so popular is that most folks were told that's how it should be and never tried anything else. "
> 
> View attachment 251521



So all the pizza's are sticking to 3 toppings, interestingly the Greek pizza does not have Feta as one of those toppings.

Also this menu - how long ago was this? Was Israel not formally recognised at this point that they went with Kosher? And what is the last topping on the Kosher pizza - I cannot make it out.


----------



## Ryujin

Damn. Haven't had frogs' legs in over 20 years. Now I'm craving them.


----------



## Cadence

AnotherGuy said:


> So all the pizza's are sticking to 3 toppings, interestingly the Greek pizza does not have Feta as one of those toppings.
> 
> Also this menu - how long ago was this? Was Israel not formally recognised at this point that they went with Kosher? And what is the last topping on the Kosher pizza - I cannot make it out.




1957 at Francine's Pizza Jungle in Portland, Oregon.

I think that last ingredient is Lox.  (Looks like the Chinese one has four toppings? But most are certainly three.)


----------



## AnotherGuy

Cadence said:


> 1957 at Francine's Pizza Jungle in Portland, Oregon.
> 
> I think that last ingredient is Lox.



Ah, so I just googled it - Yiddish word found in American cuisine in place of salmon.


----------



## Cadence

AnotherGuy said:


> Ah, so I just googled it - Yiddish word found in American cuisine in place of salmon.



I'm sorry, I thought it was just hard to read - it never occurred to me it wasn't a more widely used word!

I'm used to only hearing it in the context of bagels.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I'm just going to note here that the only jargon I ever really use is "swine," and I use it ironically...

Anyway, is it wrong that I'm planning a hexcrawl, and the first area of interest is the Tomb of Penwick Knull (TPK), of which the first room contains a guardian pit fiend?


----------



## South by Southwest

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I'm just going to note here that the only jargon I ever really use is "swine," and I use it ironically...
> 
> Anyway, is it wrong that I'm planning a hexcrawl, and the first area of interest is the Tomb of Penwick Knull (TPK), of which the first room contains a guardian pit fiend?



Not only is that not wrong, it is the exact kind of "right" for which I think a recording of the festivities is most appropriate.


----------



## Cadence

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I'm just going to note here that the only jargon I ever really use is "swine," and I use it ironically...
> 
> Anyway, is it wrong that I'm planning a hexcrawl, and the first area of interest is the Tomb of Penwick Knull (TPK), of which the first room contains a guardian pit fiend?




It feels like you aren't in the spirit of things if it is supposed to be the thread title.

"Is it wrong if the first room at first level contains a guardian Pit Fiend, but the Pit Fiend realizes the party is secretly descended from succubi but they don't know it, but it doesn't want to tell them it knows?  Or should it tell them because it is useful in it's battle with the Abyss?"


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> It feels like you aren't in the spirit of things if it is supposed to be the thread title.
> 
> "Is it wrong if the first room at first level contains a guardian Pit Fiend, but the Pit Fiend realizes the party is secretly descended from succubi but they don't know it, but it doesn't want to tell them it knows?  Or should it tell them because it is useful in it's battle with the Abyss?"



That seems to be missing a certain je ne say word salad ...


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I'm just going to note here that the only jargon I ever really use is "swine," and I use it ironically...
> 
> Anyway, is it wrong that I'm planning a hexcrawl, and the first area of interest is the Tomb of Penwick Knull (TPK), of which the first room contains a guardian pit fiend?



I prefer Bodaks. Way back in the 1e days I had a player who was a dice cheat and abused a Gem of Seeing that the other players had let him have (rotating DM situation). Party walks into a room with 8 rectangular fire pits in the floor. Cheat pulls out the Gem and looks into the first pit.

... where there's a Bodak hiding in the flames. "You see him perfectly. You're dead. No save. Get on the resurrection bus."


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> I prefer Bodaks. Way back in the 1e days I had a player who was a dice cheat and abused a Gem of Seeing that the other players had let him have (rotating DM situation). Party walks into a room with 8 rectangular fire pits in the floor. Cheat pulls out the Gem and looks into the first pit.
> 
> ... where there's a Bodak hiding in the flames. "You see him perfectly. You're dead. No save. Get on the resurrection bus."



That's a variation on my favorite Grimtooth's trap! The party finds a pit trap hidden under an illusion. Casting _dispel magic_ clears the illusion... revealing the medusa chained to the bottom of the pit.


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> That's a variation on my favorite Grimtooth's trap! The party finds a pit trap hidden under an illusion. Casting _dispel magic_ clears the illusion... revealing the medusa chained to the bottom of the pit.



I did something similar, when I suspected that a player was reading the (purchased) module, before each session. Some will remember the somewhat famous 1e pic of the female Thief chained to a wall. In my version it was an illusion of a Succubus, pretending to be a Thief. Said player had his character kissed by the Thief, who then revealed herself to be a Succubus, who then eventually disappeared as an illusion. "But it was an illusion! How did I lose levels?!" "Because you believed it was a Succubus at the time." Clearly, he couldn't reveal how he knew it wasn't supposed to go that way


----------



## Mezuka

Words matter: 'influenced by' does not mean 'based on'.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mezuka said:


> Words matter: 'influenced by' does not mean 'based on'.



Also, "influenced by" _should not_ mean "a copy of."


----------



## CleverNickName

I miss hexcrawls.  I think I'm gonna have to put one together for my next adventure.


----------



## South by Southwest

I _like_ not getting into any fights with people online. I find it works wonders for my blood pressure.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> I _like_ not getting into any fights with people online. I find it works wonders for my blood pressure.



I actually have very low blood pressure. Maybe that's whybI never learn...


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> I actually have very low blood pressure. Maybe that's whybI never learn...



The conclusion I finally reached (and Vaalingrade helped me get there) is that the online format persistently thwarts the only justifiable role I see for debate: finding the truth and changing our minds to fit it once found. It shouldn't be this fraught, but it is.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> The conclusion I finally reached (and Vaalingrade helped me get there), is that the online format persistently thwarts the only justifiable role I see for debate: finding the truth and changing our minds to fit it once found. It shouldn't be this fraught, but it is.



A pretty fraught exercise is in any format. In person dialogs can get you juridically murdered with poison for annoying the wrong people.


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> A pretty fraught exercise is in any format. In person dialogs can get you juridically murdered with poison for annoying the wrong people.



True that, but at least in person I can read their faces and body postures to get a sense for where their minds are at. Online it instantly becomes the worst Derridean hellscape I've ever seen: all we have is the text before us and nothing of our actual interlocutors to guide our interpretations. In a scenario like this, I'd say a kind of collective road rage is inevitable.


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> True that, but at least in person I can read their faces and body postures to get a sense for where their minds are at. Online it instantly becomes the worst Derridean hellscape I've ever seen: all we have is the text before us and nothing of our actual interlocutors to guide our interpretations. In a scenario like this, I'd say a kind of collective road rage is inevitable.



For instance it's far easier to see someone snickering behind their hand, if you're face-to-face.


----------



## dragoner

Oh noes, I commented in a thread where people are arguing about nothing. 
*unwatch


----------



## Cadence

I'm actually kind of surprised that he let pepperoni pizza satisfy that definition.   Good.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> Oh noes, I commented in a thread where people are arguing about nothing.
> *unwatch



But those are some of the most fun to follow! Gives great fuel for playing CN NPCs.


----------



## Umbran

South by Southwest said:


> The conclusion I finally reached (and Vaalingrade helped me get there) is that the online format persistently thwarts the only justifiable role I see for debate: finding the truth and changing our minds to fit it once found. It shouldn't be this fraught, but it is.




The logical conclusion to take from that is that _debate_ is a poor choice of approach.  Indeed, "finding the truth" is a fool's errand on most of the topics we have, which are largely about preferences not truths.

That frees you up to discuss, without the burden of having to prove anything.


----------



## South by Southwest

Umbran said:


> The logical conclusion to take from that is that _debate_ is a poor choice of approach.  Indeed, "finding the truth" is a fool's errand on most of the topics we have, which are largely about preferences not truths.
> 
> That frees you up to discuss, without the burden of having to prove anything.



Exactly.


----------



## RealAlHazred

South by Southwest said:


> I _like_ not getting into any fights with people online. I find it works wonders for my blood pressure.



But, I subsist on spite and coffee. If I don't get enough spite, I have to up my coffee intake to possibly dangerous levels...


----------



## Benjamin Olson

dragoner said:


> Oh noes, I commented in a thread where people are arguing about nothing.



I feel like the part of that sentence after "I commented in a thread" is superfluous.


----------



## South by Southwest

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> But, I subsist on spite and coffee. If I don't get enough spite, I have to up my coffee intake to possibly dangerous levels...



With the coffee I agree.


----------



## J.Quondam

The real evil genius of it is that it all works only because Vecna has expertise in the "Sentence Diagramming" skill.


----------



## Deset Gled

J.Quondam said:


> The real evil genius of it is that it all works only because Vecna has expertise in the "Sentence Diagramming" skill.




Wait a second... Was Vecna the original creator of quantum grammar? That would explain quite a bit, actually.


----------



## South by Southwest

J.Quondam said:


> The real evil genius of it is that it all works only because Vecna has expertise in the "Sentence Diagramming" skill.



Given its import (and complexity), shouldn't that be a feat?


----------



## dragoner

the best is back in r/traveller, weirder than ever.


----------



## CleverNickName

I made a thing.  Add your own targets!


----------



## Ryujin

Fixed.


----------



## prabe

Is edition warring a design tradition? If so, can we let that go?


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Is edition warring a design tradition? If so, can we let that go?



...but, isnt it the only thing everyone agrees on?


----------



## prabe

o gawds i am going to regret the hell out of that aren't i


----------



## prabe

i coulda gone out and mowed the lawn before the rain but now i had to say something

dammit


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> i coulda gone out and mowed the lawn before the rain but now i had to say something
> 
> dammit



At least you have some sense. Half my neighbors will mow during a thunderstorm


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> At least you have some sense. Half my neighbors will mow during a thunderstorm



I have a rechargeable battery powered mower. Doing that seems ... quixotic. More quixotic than commenting in that thread, even.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> I have a rechargeable battery powered mower. Doing that seems ... quixotic. More quixotic than commenting in that thread, even.



Yeap, didn't think about E-mowers. I was thinking about the grass being weighed down and not cutting well and working on the blade's edge. Doesnt seem to stop folks tho.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Yeap, didn't think about E-mowers. I was thinking about the grass being weighed down and not cutting well and working on the blade's edge. Doesnt seem to stop folks tho.



Quixotic enough to use an E-mower in a rainstorm? No. Quixotic enough to buy an E-car while the charger is backordered ... yeaaaah.


----------



## dragoner

I tried the electric mower route, and found it could only do half the job at a time; so after a few years with it, I switched back to gas.


----------



## Cadence

Our yard is pretty small... with spotty grass and stairs separating the three levels.  I use one of these.




I can't see using it in a storm.


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> i coulda gone out and mowed the lawn before the rain but now i had to say something
> 
> dammit



Oooh, an opportunity to repost the Most German Photo Ever Taken!





"Look, the levee _might _or _might not_ rupture and flood the neighborhood. But if it _doesn't_, the lawn still needs to be mowed, dammit!"


----------



## prabe

dragoner said:


> I tried the electric mower route, and found it could only do half the job at a time; so after a few years with it, I switched back to gas.



Our lawn isn't huge, and we bought a mower with a large battery; we (I) can mow and trim the lawn on one charge.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Our lawn isn't huge, and we bought a mower with a large battery; we (I) can mow and trim the lawn on one charge.



I had an old gas mower. Was getting real tired of playing around with it. I was leaning towards electric cause I like the idea of being better for the environment. My cheapness and desire to tinker with things got the better of me though and went with another gas mower. Its hard to compete when I can keep a gas mower going for so much longer than an electric one. Those batteries are not cheap!


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> I had an old gas mower. Was getting real tired of playing around with it. I was leaning towards electric cause I like the idea of being better for the environment. My cheapness and desire to tinker with things got the better of me though and went with another gas mower. Its hard to compete when I can keep a gas mower going for so much longer than an electric one. Those batteries are not cheap!



I guess not having any mower when we moved to a place with a lawn put us in the advantage of not having a status quo in this regard. We've had it ... like three years. No, replacing the battery won't be cheap--if it's even possible.

Honestly, I think the biggest factor was that we (or at least my wife) preferred to have a battery and charger than gasoline sitting around in the garage. And the fact rooftop solar panels were always in the plan (and have now been installed) makes it arguably an even greener choice.

Of course, our choice shouldn't be taken to reflect on yours, or anyone else's.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> I guess not having any mower when we moved to a place with a lawn put us in the advantage of not having a status quo in this regard. We've had it ... like three years. No, replacing the battery won't be cheap--if it's even possible.
> 
> Honestly, I think the biggest factor was that we (or at least my wife) preferred to have a battery and charger than gasoline sitting around in the garage. And the fact rooftop solar panels were always in the plan (and have now been installed) makes it arguably an even greener choice.
> 
> Of course, our choice shouldn't be taken to reflect on yours, or anyone else's.



Love it. I did get a hedge clipper that uses a battery as a house warming gift. I also bought a pole saw that can use the same battery. It's very versatile being able to swap and go. Strongly considering getting a weed whip to use the same battery since my gas one needs an oil mixture. My gas whip is perfect never had a better one but mixing gas just for it has become a PITA.

I only went gas mower because I my last one was 25 years old and still going but needed constant tinkering. I don't mind some tinker, but it was too much. The electric ones are 7-14 years usually of life span if you buy new batteries. With versatility and convivence its likely better for most people (and our environment). Though, like I said im cheap and like to (occasionally tinker).


----------



## dragoner

prabe said:


> Our lawn isn't huge, and we bought a mower with a large battery; we (I) can mow and trim the lawn on one charge.



I bought the one with the biggest battery at the time, it was just a bummer that it turned a one day job into a two day one. Though I am not under any illusion, I mean here we still get like half our electricity from coal.


----------



## prabe

dragoner said:


> I bought the one with the biggest battery at the time, it was just a bummer that it turned a one day job into a two day one. Though I am not under any illusion, I mean here we still get like half our electricity from coal.



Yeah. Battery tech is improving rapidly, and the size of the area to be mown matters, as well. We always planned to get solar panels.


----------



## dragoner

prabe said:


> Yeah. Battery tech is improving rapidly, and the size of the area to be mown matters, as well. We always planned to get solar panels.



Heat and the thickness of the grass also were determiners, I mean the mower would get screaming hot too. I'm doing a quarter acre in midwest summers, when I lived in Oakland, my little patch of grass I could do with an electric mower in no time, with battery life left to spare.


----------



## prabe

You could read that generously, or you could pick a fight.

Of course you're picking a fight.


----------



## Cadence

A bunch of games on the Atari 2600 had circular explosions, right?  I'm trying to remember if some used different radii in the same game?


----------



## Benjamin Olson

prabe said:


> You could read that generously, or you could pick a fight.
> 
> Of course you're picking a fight.



Look, it's the internet, I only have a few of your words by which to sort you into one of the categories of people I maintain in my head and judge you accordingly. Generosity was never in the cards.

Next you're going to want to be able to make a minor, isolated error while driving in traffic without everyone in view assuming you're a terrible driver who does that kind of thing all the time, because you're just one of _those people_.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> A bunch of games on the Atari 2600 had circular explosions, right?  I'm trying to remember if some used different radii in the same game?




I think a lot of games from that era actually used square hit boxes, though.


----------



## prabe

I am glad I had a session to run this evening. It was much better than going swimming in those tar pits.


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> I am glad I had a session to run this evening. It was much better than going swimming in those tar pits.



"Tar pit? Smelly? My home, this is!"


----------



## CleverNickName

My solution to the "Five Minute Workday" has been to remove combat from the game.  Anytime combat would normally occur, I just handwave it and say something like "and you defeated them handily.  Moving on..."  My players are amazed at how much they can get accomplished in a day when they aren't compelled to fireball the local fauna every sixty seconds.

Now all of the complaints about "why can't we take another long rest?" have been replaced with silly gripes like "why did I even buy a sword in the first place?" so I'm working on a houserule that will remove swords.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I'm working on a houserule to remove houserules.


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm working on a houserule to remove houserules.



Is that not the ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mannahnin said:


> Is that not the ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game?



No, because my version has a REVISED and EXPANDED harlot table. So it's better. Mathematically.


----------



## CleverNickName

All joking aside, my best houserule for 5E so far can be written on a postage stamp:

"Healing potions heal the maximum amount,  but cost 50% more."

That's it, my Magnum Opus.  I will never be able to top that one.


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> No, because my version has a REVISED and EXPANDED harlot table. So it's better. Mathematically.



shutupandtakemymoney.gif


----------



## Deset Gled

It's go to know that we, as a people, as a collective intelligence, are just as skilled and effective at computer programming as we are game design.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> It's go to know that we, as a people, as a collective intelligence, are just as skilled and effective at computer programming as we are game design.



Well that's a frightening concept.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> Well that's a frightening concept.



Yeah. Even more so knowing that it applies to the "designers" of human societies, too.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Wow, that thread seemed out-of-sync with my reality from the very beginning, but now that it's had 400+ posts of arguing it's like visiting an alternate dimension.


----------



## Cadence

Benjamin Olson said:


> Wow, that thread seemed out-of-sync with my reality from the very beginning, but now that it's had 400+ posts of arguing it's like visiting an alternate dimension.



That doesn't even narrow it down enough to try and guess which one it was.  (So, I guess that makes it a successful post here for keeping the mods sane    ).


----------



## Alzrius

A person in another thread said something to the effect of "if someone made a show where God was presented as being a bad guy, they'd be cited by the Anti-Defamation League." Apparently they didn't get the memo that the Satanic Panic is over, and that the ADL didn't seem to have a problem with how the CW's _Supernatural_ ended.









						Supernatural Season 15: Why God Is The Perfect Final Villain
					

Supernatural season 14 revealed a major character to be the show's final villain, here's why they were the perfect, and only, choice to make.




					screenrant.com


----------



## RealAlHazred

Alzrius said:


> A person in another thread said something to the effect of "if someone made a show where God was presented as being a bad guy, they'd be cited by the Anti-Defamation League." Apparently they didn't get the memo that the Satanic Panic is over, and that the ADL didn't seem to have a problem with how the CW's _Supernatural_ ended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supernatural Season 15: Why God Is The Perfect Final Villain
> 
> 
> Supernatural season 14 revealed a major character to be the show's final villain, here's why they were the perfect, and only, choice to make.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> screenrant.com



The ADL only really _followed _Supernatural up to season 7, like a lot of people.


----------



## Cadence

'All models are approximations. Assumptions, whether implied or clearly stated, are never exactly true. _All models are wrong, but some models are useful._ So the question you need to ask is not "Is the model true?" (it never is) but "Is the model good enough for this particular application?"'

-George Box  (one of many versions of the idea stated by him, this one from 2005).

Professor Box (1919-2013) was a member of the National Academy of Arts and Sciences and a Fellow of the Royal Society.  He served as president of the American Statistical Association and the Institute of Mathematical Statistics, and his numerous honors include the  the (now) COPSS Distinguished Achievement Award and Lectureship.


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> 'All models are approximations. Assumptions, whether implied or clearly stated, are never exactly true. _All models are wrong, but some models are useful._ So the question you need to ask is not "Is the model true?" (it never is) but "Is the model good enough for this particular application?"'
> 
> -George Box  (one of many versions of the idea stated by him, this one from 2005).
> 
> Professor Box (1919-2013) was a member of the National Academy of Arts and Sciences and a Fellow of the Royal Society.  He served as president of the American Statistical Association and Institute of Mathematical Statistics, and his numerous honors include the  the (now) COPSS Distinguished Achievement Award and Lectureship.



If it hadn't been a quotation from 15 years too late, that could have been a part of the Math 300 course I took at Beloit College - Mathematical Modeling.


----------



## Deset Gled

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> The ADL only really _followed _Supernatural up to season 7, like a lot of people.




Quitters. I followed that show all 15 seasons. The highs were high, the lows were low. FWIW, I loved the ending.


----------



## Cadence

"better"


----------



## Cadence

"Well, first I imagine a huge amount of swirling gas particles.  And then I roll about 10^56  d20's to see how they coalesce and move, and repeat that until I have enough to get critical mass to ignite as a sun and then see what planets and other objects form, and then keep going until I see if the orbits are stable.  If the sun doesn't ignite, then it's kind of like Traveller and it just dies and I try again.  That's always disappointing, because it takes a long time to roll all those dice."


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> "Well, first I imagine a huge amount of swirling gas particles.  And then I roll about 10^56  d20's to see how they coalesce and move, and repeat that until I have enough to get critical mass to ignite as a sun and then see what planets and other objects form, and then keep going until I see if the orbits are stable.  If the sun doesn't ignite, then it's kind of like Traveller and it just dies and I try again.  That's always disappointing, because it takes a long time to roll all those dice."




Didn't Mike Mearls propose system to do that in one roll? It's a bit reductive, but accomplishes the same thing.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> Didn't Mike Mearls propose system to do that in one roll? It's a bit reductive, but accomplishes the same thing.



You need an awfully big die with a lot of sides for this one though...


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> You need an awfully big die with a lot of sides for this one though...



Nah, not really.  You just roll 99d10 to get a number between one and one duotrigintillion (1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.)


----------



## payn

Didnt get the job, my Father is dying of cancer, and U.S. Politics. Week cant get any worse...


----------



## Cadence

"Why would you stick to pizza and put pineapple on it, you could just eat something that was originally designed for pineapple?!?"


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> "Why would you stick to pizza and put pineapple on it, you could just eat something that was originally designed for pineapple?!?"




I'm full Poe's Law on this one.


----------



## CleverNickName

I'd love to see the "original design" for pizza.  (I'd wager it didn't even have cheese.)

EDIT:  Heh.  I was right.


			
				New York Post said:
			
		

> The first mention of pizza in the small Italian town dates back to 1,200 years ago, according to Tagliafierro. That said, pies looked a little bit different back then: They consisted of dough dressed with salt, pepper, garlic, oil and a spread made from (yum) boiled pig fat.











						This pizza is made from a 1,000-year-old recipe
					

The best pizza in Italy? It’s in New York City, of course. Well, officially, it’s in Southern Italy — either in pizza king Naples or in Tramonti, a tiny coastal town that gives its big-city neighbo…




					nypost.com


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> I'd love to see the "original design" for pizza.  (I'd wager it didn't even have cheese.)
> 
> EDIT:  Heh.  I was right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This pizza is made from a 1,000-year-old recipe
> 
> 
> The best pizza in Italy? It’s in New York City, of course. Well, officially, it’s in Southern Italy — either in pizza king Naples or in Tramonti, a tiny coastal town that gives its big-city neighbo…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com



or tomatoes, as those were only introduced in the 16th c.


----------



## Hussar

CleverNickName said:


> All joking aside, my best houserule for 5E so far can be written on a postage stamp:
> 
> "Healing potions heal the maximum amount,  but cost 50% more."
> 
> That's it, my Magnum Opus.  I will never be able to top that one.



On idea I came across for healing potions that I like is, as a bonus action, you can take a healing potion and roll.  As a full action, you get max HP for the healing potion.  I always thought that was a neat way of doing it.


----------



## Mezuka

Quoting someone in a thread, to state the obvious, thinking somehow you just wrote something important or clever.


----------



## billd91

Do people consult the OED or their OCD?


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> Do people consult the OED or their OCD?



The former to combat the later in others?


----------



## South by Southwest

billd91 said:


> Do people consult the OED or their OCD?



In my own case the latter drives me to the former.


----------



## trappedslider

yet another thread that will after a while be abandoned by the OP.


----------



## South by Southwest

trappedslider said:


> yet another thread that will after a while be abandoned by the OP.



Waddayagonnado? Lawyers drive everyone away.


----------



## J.Quondam

I figure someone here will appreciate this:


----------



## payn

Still going on and on about Dragons huh?


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> Still going on and on about Dragons huh?



Nah, everything's become about camping, suddenly.


----------



## South by Southwest

Why do people try to make a make-believe world's magic consistent the real world's known physics? It isn't just that I don't think that can be done; it's that _wanting to_ is already such a mistake. Magic is magical, not real.


----------



## CleverNickName

South by Southwest said:


> Why do people try to make a make-believe world's magic consistent the real world's known physics? It isn't just that I don't think that can be done; it's that _wanting to_ is already such a mistake. Magic is magical, not real.



...but but but TeChNoLoGy_ Is _MaGic...

Ugh.  I'm so tired of that false equivalence.  Every time someone shares that Arthur C. Clarke, I want to scream "LOOKS LIKE, people!  It only LOOKS LIKE magic!!!"


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> ...but but but TeChNoLoGy_ Is _MaGic...
> 
> Ugh.  I'm so tired of that false equivalence.  Every time someone shares that Arthur C. Clarke, I want to scream "LOOKS LIKE, people!  It only LOOKS LIKE magic!!!"



Even in the SciFi games that I occasionally run, that have no defined magic system, that "sufficiently advanced technology" that Clarke was talking about effectively _is_ magic. Why bother with anything else?


----------



## J.Quondam

South by Southwest said:


> Why do people try to make a make-believe world's magic consistent the real world's known physics? It isn't just that I don't think that can be done; it's that _wanting to_ is already such a mistake. Magic is magical, not real.



In D&D in particular, magic is quantized into levels and spell slots, and quantified into damage or healing dice. It's categorized into schools and domains, taxonomized by "source." It's justified as emanating from vibrations in "the Weave" or some other aether-like substance that permeates everything like quantum foam or magnetic fields. The practitioners of D&D magic are ordered into a hierarchy of power, tapping into this background force, like batteries of different voltages. When you recall that so many gamers are techies or come from hard science or engineering backgrounds, you see that D&D magic is practically begging them to be picked apart pseudo-scientifically.

That's just a quality of highly-structured, D&D-like magic systems, imo. If it was less "designed" and more mystical, it wouldn't lend itself quite so readily to those sorts of discussions, I don't think.

_* I say this because I'm guilty, too, as one who had many "conservation of energy", etc,  discussions with fellow physics nerd gamers in college 30+ years ago._


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> In D&D in particular, magic is quantized into levels and spell slots, and quantified into damage or healing dice. It's categorized into schools and domains, taxonomized by "source." It's justified as emanating from vibrations in "the Weave" or some other aether-like substance that permeates everything like quantum foam or magnetic fields. The practitioners of D&D magic are ordered into a hierarchy of power, tapping into this background force, like batteries of different voltages. When you recall that so many gamers are techies or come from hard science or engineering backgrounds, you see that D&D magic is practically begging them to be picked apart pseudo-scientifically.
> 
> That's just a quality of highly-structured, D&D-like magic systems, imo. If it was less "designed" and more mystical, it wouldn't lend itself quite so readily to those sorts of discussions, I don't think.



I wonder if a certain strain of Fantasy fiction that tends to focus on the idea that magic has rules, and those rules can be understood, maybe shares some of the blame with D&D-type magic.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> Even in the SciFi games that I occasionally run, that have no defined magic system, that "sufficiently advanced technology" that Clarke was talking about effectively _is_ magic. Why bother with anything else?



I get that, and completely agree.  The part that hurts my engineer brain is the assumption that it can do the impossible.  Like FTL travel: somehow we will just figure out that the laws of physics weren't laws after all.  Magic can do the impossible, because it's not real.  Technology is real, and is therefore bound to possibility.

(deep breaths)

I'm usually pretty good at turning off my Engineer Brain in order to play video games, watch movies, and enjoy some D&D and Stars Without Number.  But every now and then, the switch fails and I get hung up on it.


----------



## J.Quondam

prabe said:


> I wonder if a certain strain of Fantasy fiction that tends to focus on the idea that magic has rules, and those rules can be understood, maybe shares some of the blame with D&D-type magic.



I wouldn't doubt it. It's not an especially new idea, is it? Pursuits like alchemy, numerology, astrology, traditional medicine, and so on are all about trying to explain or justify often fantastical things in codified, science-ish ways.
People LOVE picking out patterns in things.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I get that, and completely agree.  The part that hurts my engineer brain is the assumption that it can do the impossible.  Like FTL travel: somehow we will just figure out that the laws of physics weren't laws after all.  Magic can do the impossible, because it's not real.  Technology is real, and is therefore bound to possibility.
> 
> (deep breaths)
> 
> I'm usually pretty good at turning off my Engineer Brain in order to play video games, watch movies, and enjoy some D&D and Stars Without Number.  But every now and then, the switch fails and I get hung up on it.



Some things you can hand-wave pretty effectively. We need faster than light travel? We'll use gravity to shorten the distance (wormholes, 'jump drives', artificial black holes...), rather than exceeding the hard speed limit. Star Trek technobabble. 

I've mentioned the RPG Space Opera before. They had a psionics system that included teleportation, which wasn't part of the technological world of the game. (I added it to a limited extent with a singular Forerunner artifact.) They thought to include potential energy in the rules. You could teleport freely in open space or around the curvature of a planet, for example, but climbing out of a gravity well to any extend heated or cooled the psi who was teleporting. If you didn't have the telekinetic ability that permitted pyro/cryokenisis, then it could kill you just changing elevation.

Some things you don't really want science used for, even in your sciency game.


----------



## Mannahnin

J.Quondam said:


> In D&D in particular, magic is quantized into levels and spell slots, and quantified into damage or healing dice. It's categorized into schools and domains, taxonomized by "source." It's justified as emanating from vibrations in "the Weave" or some other aether-like substance that permeates everything like quantum foam or magnetic fields. The practitioners of D&D magic are ordered into a hierarchy of power, tapping into this background force, like batteries of different voltages. When you recall that so many gamers are techies or come from hard science or engineering backgrounds, you see that D&D magic is practically begging them to be picked apart pseudo-scientifically.
> 
> That's just a quality of highly-structured, D&D-like magic systems, imo. If it was less "designed" and more mystical, it wouldn't lend itself quite so readily to those sorts of discussions, I don't think.
> 
> _* I say this because I'm guilty, too, as one who had many "conservation of energy", etc,  discussions with fellow physics nerd gamers in college 30+ years ago._






prabe said:


> I wonder if a certain strain of Fantasy fiction that tends to focus on the idea that magic has rules, and those rules can be understood, maybe shares some of the blame with D&D-type magic.



Jack Vance, The Dying Earth:

_In this fashion did Turjan enter his apprenticeship to Pandelume. Day and far into the opalescent Embelyon night he worked under Pandelume's unseen tutelage. He learned the secret of renewed youth, many spells of the ancients, and a strange abstract lore that Pandelume termed "Mathematics."

"Within this instrument," said Pandelume, "resides the Universe. Passive in itself and not of sorcery, it elucidates every problem, each phase of existence, all the secrets of time and space. Your spells and runes are built upon its power and codified according to a great underlying mosaic of magic. The design of this mosaic we cannot surmise; our knowledge is didactic, empirical, arbitrary. Phandaal glimpsed the pattern and so was able to formulate many of the spells which bear his name. I have endeavored through the ages to break the clouded glass, but so far my research has failed. He who discovers the pattern will know all of sorcery and be a man powerful beyond comprehension."

So Turjan applied himself to the study and learned many of the simpler routines.

"I find herein a wonderful beauty," he told Pandelume. "This is no science, this is art, where equations fall away to elements like resolving chords, and where always prevails a symmetry either explicit or multiplex, but always of a crystalline serenity."_


----------



## prabe

Mannahnin said:


> Jack Vance, The Dying Earth:



There are times when I kinda regret not reading Vance when I was younger. I suspect his fiction wouldn't work anything like as well for me now, for reasons that are mostly about me--not like a dig on Vance.


----------



## J.Quondam

prabe said:


> There are times when I kinda regret not reading Vance when I was younger. I suspect his fiction wouldn't work anything like as well for me now, for reasons that are mostly about me--not like a dig on Vance.



Me, too. I've never read Vance, and often tell myself I should one day. But I imagine the me of "now" wouldn't read it like the me of "then" would have. But still, I probably _should_ read it. One day.


----------



## Mezuka

J.Quondam said:


> Me, too. I've never read Vance, and often tell myself I should one day. But I imagine the me of "now" wouldn't read it like the me of "then" would have. But still, I probably _should_ read it. One day.



First time I read Vance I was in my mid-late-40s. Read *Big Planet*, it's fun. A quick summer read, full of ideas. I read it every few years.

"According to science fiction scholar Nick Gevers, _Big Planet_



> was instrumental in the development of the planetary romance form...perhaps the first attempt at a convincingly complete imaginary world in genre s-f....[T]he conviction persists that it is not the characters who serve as the book's protagonists, but rather Big Planet itself.












						Big Planet
					

The objective of the mission from Earth: to stop the ruthless Barjarnum of Beaujolais from expanding his empire on the Big Planet...and p...



					www.goodreads.com


----------



## J.Quondam

Mezuka said:


> First time I read Vance I was in my mid-late-40s. Read *Big Planet*, it's fun. A quick summer read, full of ideas. I read it every few years.
> 
> "According to science fiction scholar Nick Gevers, _Big Planet_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Planet
> 
> 
> The objective of the mission from Earth: to stop the ruthless Barjarnum of Beaujolais from expanding his empire on the Big Planet...and p...
> 
> 
> 
> www.goodreads.com



Awesome! Thanks for the recommendation. It's helpful to know of a good place to start.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> I'm usually pretty good at turning off my Engineer Brain in order to play video games, watch movies, and enjoy some D&D and Stars Without Number.  But every now and then, the switch fails and I get hung up on it.



In some ways, I'm glad that I'm not as smart as others.


----------



## Mannahnin

I first encountered Vance at 17; _Cugel's Saga_ and the first volume of _Lyonesse _in my then-local library.  He has a few foibles and points that haven't aged well, but he's mostly a lot of fun. 

I still think Lyonesse is tied for me with LotR for my favorite fantasy series ever.  Though they're VERY different.  Vance is much earthier and funnier and more sarcastic and cynical, even though that's interspersed with lots of lovely fairy magic and derring-do.


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> Awesome! Thanks for the recommendation. It's helpful to know of a good place to start.



To be fair, there's no "bad place" to start reading Vance. He explores many ideas, sometimes writing novels that explore the same idea from two different directions (*The Gray Price* vs. *Araminta Station*). About the only slightly-less-good starting point is with, say, the second novel out of a series, but even then all the books are solid as stand-alones.

As far as magic theory goes, the Dying Earth system develops quite a bit in *Rhialto the Marvellous*:


> The great magicians of Grand Motholam were sufficiently supple that they perceived the limits of human understanding, and spent most of their efforts dealing with practical problems, searching for abstract principles only when all else failed. For this reason, magic retains its distinctly human flavor, even though the activating agents are never human. A casual glance into one of the basic catalogues emphasizes this human orientation; the nomenclature has a quaint and archaic flavor. Looking into (for instance) Chapter Four of Killiclaw's *Primer of Practical Magic*, *Interpersonal Effectuations*, one notices, indited in bright purple ink, such terminology as:
> 
> Xarfaggio's Physical Malepsy
> Arnhoult's Sequestrious Digitalia
> Lutar Brassnose's Twelve-fold Bounty
> The Spell of Forlorn Encystment
> Tinkler's Old-fashioned Froust
> Clambard's Rein of Long Nerves
> The Green and Purple Postponement of Joy
> Panguire's Triumphs of Discomfort
> Lugwiler's Dismal Itch
> Khulip's Nasal Enhancement
> Radl's Pervasion of the Incorrect Chord
> A spell in essence corresponds to a code, or set of instructions, inserted into the sensorium of an entity which is able and not unwilling to alter the environment in accordance with the message conveyed by the spell. These entities are not necessarily 'intelligent,' nor even 'sentient,' and their conduct, from the tyro's point of view, is unpredictable, capricious and dangerous.
> 
> The most pliable and cooperative of these creatures range from the lowly and frail elementals, through the sandestins. More fractious entities are known by the Temuchin as 'daihak,' which include 'demons' and 'gods.' A magician's power derives from the abilities of the entities he is able to control. Every magician of consequence employs one or more sandestins. A few arch-magicians of Grand Motholam dared to employ the force of the lesser daihaks. To recite or even to list the names of these magicians is to evoke wonder and awe. Their names tingle with power. Some of Grand Motholam's most notable and dramatic were:
> 
> Phandaal the Great
> Amberlin I
> Amberlin II
> Dibarcas Maior (who studied under Phandaal)
> Arch-Mage Mael Lei Laio (he lived in a palace carved from a single moon-stone)
> The Vapurials
> The Green and Purple College
> Zinqzin the Encyclopaedist
> Kyrol of Porphyrhyncos
> Calanctus the Calm
> Llorio the Sorceress
> The magicians of the 21st Aeon were, in comparison, a disparate and uncertain group, lacking both grandeur and consistency.


----------



## Mezuka

Mannahnin said:


> I first encountered Vance at 17, _Cugel's Saga_ and the first volume of _Lyonesse _in my then-local library.  He has a few foibles and points that haven't aged well, but he's mostly a lot of fun.
> 
> I still think Lyonesse is tied for me with LotR for my favorite fantasy series ever.  Though they're VERY different.  Vance is much earthier and funnier and more sarcastic and cynical, even though that's interspersed with lots of lovely fairy magic and derring-do.



Never read Lyonesse. Sounds interesting as an rpg setting. Consider it on top of my summer reading list.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Lyonesse is a solid, excellent fantasy series. I'm sad it's never going to get, say, a streaming series or something -- instead, it's always going to be another retread of *Lord of the Rings*, or some modern "overarching plotline" series. Or both at the same time, if we're talking about Shannara...


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

South by Southwest said:


> Why do people try to make a make-believe world's magic consistent the real world's known physics? It isn't just that I don't think that can be done; it's that _wanting to_ is already such a mistake. Magic is magical, not real.



In my opinion, this is kind of a fallacy. In a lot of settings, like the Cosmere, what we'd call "magic" is just a consequence of that universe having different laws of physics. D&D's magic system is constantly trying to explain and justify itself, with the stuff about "the Weave" and its different schools of magic. D&D's magic has rules, and therefore, discussing those rules and their implications is definitely valid.


prabe said:


> I wonder if a certain strain of Fantasy fiction that tends to focus on the idea that magic has rules, and those rules can be understood, maybe shares some of the blame with D&D-type magic.



As a fan of Brandon Sanderson . . . yes. This is definitely part of the reason I started that thread. D&D's magic system is generally a pretty hard magic system, which means that its rules are mostly well-defined and internally consistent. The spells are even divided into 8 schools of magic and 10 levels (if you count cantrips). And since some magic is fairly easy to get (all High Elves get a wizard cantrip), it opens up a lot of questions about the implications of said magic. Especially in settings like Eberron, where the consequences of D&D's magic in the setting being realized is kind of the main draw of the setting for a lot of people (including me).


----------



## prabe

AcererakTriple6 said:


> As a fan of Brandon Sanderson . . . yes. This is definitely part of the reason I started that thread. D&D's magic system is generally a pretty hard magic system, which means that its rules are mostly well-defined and internally consistent. The spells are even divided into 8 schools of magic and 10 levels (if you count cantrips). And since some magic is fairly easy to get (all High Elves get a wizard cantrip), it opens up a lot of questions about the implications of said magic. Especially in settings like Eberron, where the consequences of D&D's magic in the setting being realized is kind of the main draw of the setting for a lot of people (including me).



I thought that might be the case. I know Sanderson has a lot of fans (understatement) and while I was thinking about his approach I didn't want anyone who likes his fiction to feel called out.


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> In my opinion, this is kind of a fallacy. In a lot of settings, like the Cosmere, what we'd call "magic" is just a consequence of that universe having different laws of physics. D&D's magic system is constantly trying to explain and justify/explain itself, with the stuff about "the Weave" and its different schools of magic. D&D's magic has rules, and therefore, discussing those rules and their implications is definitely valid.
> 
> As a fan of Brandon Sanderson . . . yes. This is definitely part of the reason I started that thread. D&D's magic system is generally a pretty hard magic system, which means that its rules are mostly well-defined and internally consistent. The spells are even divided into 8 schools of magic and 10 levels (if you count cantrips). And since some magic is fairly easy to get (all High Elves get a wizard cantrip), it opens up a lot of questions about the implications of said magic. Especially in settings like Eberron, where the consequences of D&D's magic in the setting being realized is kind of the main draw of the setting for a lot of people (including me).



I vaguely remember reading a book in which magic was just the shouting out of things like chemical formulae. For example if you wanted to launch an acid spray at someone you would cry out, "H2SO4!" or the like. I can't remember which book this was in. Maybe it was one of the "Myth Adventures" series? Sounds like something that Phil Foglio would write.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

My Vance recommendation would be the short story "Mazirian the Magician" from the original Dying Earth collection, which is a very simple story of a Wizard foolishly using up all his spells for the day. Not only is it the _ur_ source for Vancian magic, but I think it's also just some of the most finely-crafted fantasy prose I've ever read.

I like the other Dying Earth books as well, but that first one, and particularly the first four stories in it, are just on a different level in terms of stylishly using a very creative setting. Later Dying Earth works tended to move around to different places that were often minimally developed (it's a new chapter so Cugel shows up in another place for another picaresque adventure) but those first few stories all mostly share a consistent setting which is clearly pretty well developed but which Vance only shows us through obtuse allusions buried under spectacular prose.


----------



## Parmandur

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Lyonesse is a solid, excellent fantasy series. I'm sad it's never going to get, say, a streaming series or something -- instead, it's always going to be another retread of *Lord of the Rings*, or some modern "overarching plotline" series. Or both at the same time, if we're talking about Shannara...



Shannara isn't really "modern," since it is older than I am.


----------



## J.Quondam

Parmandur said:


> Shannara isn't really "modern," since it is older than I am.



Maybe it's Shanara that's modern, and you're just post-modern.


----------



## Parmandur

J.Quondam said:


> Maybe it's Shanara that's modern, and you're just post-modern.



Maybe! I just remember so distinctly how the copy of Shanara that I got from the Library in Middle School was like the oldest, most beat up book that I had ever seen in my life: must have been an early printing that was nigh 20 years old at the time.

Sword of Shanara was certainly a major milestone in Fantasy publishing, and definitely inaugurated a new era, where Lord of the Rings went from a popular but odd one-off into the Classic of Fantasy literature. But really Mosern Fantasy, IMO, starts 11 years latter with The Dragonbone Chair (the direct inspiration for Gane of Thrones, among many orher things, a stone cold classic) and really got cooking in 1990 when Eye of the World got published.


----------



## South by Southwest

AcererakTriple6 said:


> In my opinion, this is kind of a fallacy. In a lot of settings, like the Cosmere, what we'd call "magic" is just a consequence of that universe having different laws of physics.



And are we just supposed to pretend those are self-consistent physics? I really, really doubt it.


AcererakTriple6 said:


> D&D's magic system is constantly trying to explain and justify itself, with the stuff about "the Weave" and its different schools of magic. D&D's magic has rules, and therefore, discussing those rules and their implications is definitely valid.



I don't think you're quite understanding me yet (but I may be wrong): I know full well D&D's magic system is constantly receiving all manner of justifications--that's not the problem. The problem, as I see it, is _it's all made up. Make-believe. Fantasy-land hoo-ha from stem to stern._ The dilemmas over perceived inconsistencies, the attempts at greater consistency (which only ever comes in degrees in fiction), the new dilemmas arising from those attempts--_it's all a bunch of pure we-done-pulled-this-outta-our-butts make-believe._ No quantity of detail will change that. Nor will any theory-level storytelling.


----------



## South by Southwest

J.Quondam said:


> In D&D in particular, magic is quantized into levels and spell slots, and quantified into damage or healing dice. It's categorized into schools and domains, taxonomized by "source." It's justified as emanating from vibrations in "the Weave" or some other aether-like substance that permeates everything like quantum foam or magnetic fields. The practitioners of D&D magic are ordered into a hierarchy of power, tapping into this background force, like batteries of different voltages. When you recall that so many gamers are techies or come from hard science or engineering backgrounds, you see that D&D magic is practically begging them to be picked apart pseudo-scientifically.
> 
> That's just a quality of highly-structured, D&D-like magic systems, imo. If it was less "designed" and more mystical, it wouldn't lend itself quite so readily to those sorts of discussions, I don't think.
> 
> _* I say this because I'm guilty, too, as one who had many "conservation of energy", etc,  discussions with fellow physics nerd gamers in college 30+ years ago._



Oh, I have no quarrel at all with it receiving a detailed internal structure and all kinds of careful categorization. Not at all, not at all. That's all fine and indeed preferable in my book. But it's a huge mistake to try to make it fit the real world: I mean, that's a major category error right there. Fantasy goes in one box and reality in another; we should never confuse them.

And even within its own box, a world with magic is ultimately (if one looks carefully) going to end up contradicting itself somewhere. The trick is to make one that's pretty darned tidy, but beyond that don't be fool enough to look any closer.


----------



## trappedslider

South by Southwest said:


> And even within its own box, a world with magic is ultimately (if one looks carefully) going to end up contradicting itself somewhere. The trick is to make one that's pretty darned tidy, but beyond that don't be fool enough to look any closer.











						Magic A Is Magic A - TV Tropes
					

Works heavy on speculative elements, such as Science Fiction and Fantasy, often have an assortment of fantastic intangibles we cannot even dream of encountering in Real Life — yet act in a completely consistent way, as if governed by …




					tvtropes.org


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> Oh, I have no quarrel at all with it receiving a detailed internal structure and all kinds of careful categorization. Not at all, not at all. That's all fine and indeed preferable in my book. But it's a huge mistake to try to make it fit the real world: I mean, that's a major category error right there. Fantasy goes in one box and reality in another; we should never confuse them.
> 
> And even within its own box, a world with magic is ultimately (if one looks carefully) going to end up contradicting itself somewhere. The trick is to make one that's pretty darned tidy, but beyond that don't be fool enough to look any closer.



So, on the one hand I agree that trying to fit something that cannot be real into reality makes for issues and is probably an error. But on the other hand, I think there is something to be said for, in any type of fiction (and TRPGs for this purpose can be considered a type of fiction) the need for the setting to seem real enough to enable suspension of disbelief--what this means will vary person-to-person; also, because this is a *game* there is, I think, some real merit to the setting being predictable, so the players can have some sense of likely outcomes and probabilities. That doesn't mean one needs to go Full Sanderson on the magic in your world--unless you (or someone at your table) *needs* that kind of structure. An advantage of having things mostly work the way they do in the real world is that it tends to line up with people's expectations in ways that serve both ends, IME and IMO.

As someone whose unrealistic fiction genre of choice is horror, I'd be inclined to say that you can approach the discontinuities you mention in your second paragraph as much by featuring them as by hiding them, but I'll admit that does make for very strange fiction.

If we're disagreeing, it seems as though it's mostly around the edges, here.


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> If we're disagreeing, it seems as though it's mostly around the edges, here.



I don't think we are. Everything you wrote seems right to me.


----------



## Deset Gled

Of all the threads to resurrect, you chose that one?

Someone start a narrativism thread, and we'll have the trinity.


----------



## Mezuka

THAC0, sorry. People don't read the OP and jump in with serious comments... I should have known! facepalm...


----------



## payn

Gonna just walk out of that thread.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Gonna just walk out of that thread.



_* knit knit knit *_
"Oh, what's this thread?"

. . .

"Alrighty then!"
_*unknit unknit unknit *_


----------



## RealAlHazred

Deset Gled said:


> Of all the threads to resurrect, you chose that one?



Look, there's a reason Necromancy is looked upon as a forbidden abomination...


----------



## prabe

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Look, there's a reason Necromancy is looked upon as a forbidden abomination...


----------



## Gradine

Let's not take the bait from brand new accounts using their first post to drop lukewarm takes in controversial threads


----------



## Gradine

Yeah, this seems pretty much doomed from the start


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Gonna just walk out of that thread.



Yeah, the more irate people get in one of these threads, the more inclined I am to go do something else.


----------



## Parmandur

This forum doesn't even allow us to come consensus on hobby gaming issues, doubt we will solve broader social problems by arguing with each other, either.


----------



## South by Southwest

Parmandur said:


> This forum doesn't even allow us to come consensus on hobby gaming issues, doubt we will solve broader social problems by arguing with each other, either.



Man, I don't wanna get all Mr. Cultural Critic here, but lately I feel like in the U.S. as a whole, people don't want to reach a consensus: they just want to lash out at anyone possessing the temerity and bad taste to disagree with them.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Man, I don't wanna get all Mr. Cultural Critic here, but lately I feel like in the U.S. as a whole, people don't want to reach a consensus: they just want to lash out at anyone possessing the temerity and bad taste to disagree with them.



We have lost all sense of interest in exchange for positions. Its just sad. It will end, but who knows when?


----------



## Ryujin

Glad that I didn't wade into that one. There seems to be only one way it can go.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> We have lost all sense of interest in exchange for positions. Its just sad. It will end, but who knows when?



Depends on the position. There are some that aren't really amenable to compromise.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Depends on the position. There are some that aren't really amenable to compromise.



Some. A pretty small list at that. Almost everything in life is a compromise and folks need to at least agree what the problem is and best ways to address them together.


----------



## Asisreo

I'm very passionate about the subject of this thread and It's taking a lot of willpower to keep me from replying something that will probably cause the thread to burst into flames, so instead I'll just say here: "good." 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to telling others that their fun is wrong.


----------



## Mezuka

I always said the 90s political correctness was only a veneer hiding what we see today. It has always been there but they didn't have a means of expression. Social media changed that. There is no going back now.


----------



## payn

Mezuka said:


> I always said the 90s political correctness was only a veneer hiding what we see today. It has always been there but they didn't have a means of expression. Social media changed that. There is no going back now.



Good.


----------



## dragoner

Indeed I am left, nevertheless I doubt you want me commenting on your country.


----------



## This Effin’ GM

WOOOOOOOOF there is no way this thread ends up not getting closed down


----------



## CleverNickName

Me in that thread:


----------



## South by Southwest

CleverNickName said:


> Me in that thread:



Yep.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Asisreo said:


> Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to telling others that their fun is wrong.




….after returning (mostly, still one leg to go!) from an extended sojourn that was heavy on hiking in beautiful places with no internet, and light on … you know, internet … I think I’ve come up with a new taek:

No, MY FUN IS WRONG. 

Fight me.


----------



## Deset Gled

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ….after returning (mostly, still one leg to go!) from an extended sojourn that was heavy on hiking in beautiful places with no internet, and light on … you know, internet … I think I’ve come up with a new taek:
> 
> No, MY FUN IS WRONG.
> 
> Fight me.




No.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ….after returning (mostly, still one leg to go!) from an extended sojourn that was heavy on hiking in beautiful places with no internet, and light on … you know, internet … I think I’ve come up with a new taek:
> 
> No, MY FUN IS WRONG.
> 
> Fight me.



SNARF IN 2022--HE'S TANNED, HE'S RESTED, HE'S READY


----------



## Gradine

I think we can all agree, in the grand scope of things, that my fun is by far the most wrong


----------



## billd91

Gradine said:


> I think we can all agree, in the grand scope of things, that my fun is by far the most wrong



Well, I told you, "If you're going to put livestock in hosiery, it's argyle socks on the cows, not the alpacas". But did you listen to me? Noooooo.


----------



## Gradine

billd91 said:


> Well, I told you, "If you're going to put livestock in hosiery, it's argyle socks on the cows, not the alpacas". But did you listen to me? Noooooo.



You're joking, right? It's thigh-highs for everyone. All day every day


----------



## billd91

Gradine said:


> You're joking, right? It's thigh-highs for everyone. All day every day



Fashion Nightmare!


----------



## Gradine

billd91 said:


> Fashion Nightmare!



Just be happy I applied the cat ears sparingly


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Well, I told you, "If you're going to put livestock in hosiery, it's argyle socks on the cows, not the alpacas". But did you listen to me? Noooooo.



Remember, with those narrow calves the cows will need garters, too.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> Remember, with those narrow calves the cows will need garters, too.



Calves? Please, let's keep the children out of this adult conversation.


----------



## payn

Real amooosing joke folks, but lets not butcher it.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Real amooosing joke folks, but lets not butcher it.



What's your beef with a few hosiery jokes?


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> What's your beef with a few hosiery jokes?



Nothing, just dont want to see them get too spotty or loin in the tooth.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Nothing, just dont want to see them get too spotty or loin in the tooth.



I can't take it anymore. I'm taking it on the lamb...


----------



## Gradine

No bovine clerics allowed


----------



## RealAlHazred

I have never herd such egregious puns; they're really impacting my compasture.


----------



## Mannahnin

Let's mooove it along, shall we folks?


----------



## CleverNickName

Looks like we're going to milk that pun for all its worth.


----------



## payn

Mannahnin said:


> Let's mooove it along, shall we folks?



Little afraid these jokes will get too flatulent?


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Calves? Please, let's keep the children out of this adult conversation.



The only real question was, "Who is going there first?"


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


> The only real question was, "Who is going there first?"



I thought who was already on first


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> I thought who was already on first



Yes.


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> I thought who was already on first



Naturally!


----------



## Ryujin

I really hope that people understand that the majority of text walls are merely skimmed, if at all, rather than actually read.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> I really hope that people understand that the majority of text walls are merely skimmed, if at all, rather than actually read.



tl; dr


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> I really hope that people understand that the majority of text walls are merely skimmed, if at all, rather than actually read.



I think the writers of such blocks of text fully understand that.  They depend on it, actually.  It gives them an 'out' when they're backed into a corner.  Stuff like "you didn't even _read my post, _so clearly you're wrong" or "you didn't care enough to read my essay, so nobody should listen to what you have to say about this topic."


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I think the writers of such blocks of text fully understand that.  They depend on it, actually.  It gives them an 'out' when they're backed into a corner.  Stuff like "you didn't even _read my post, _so clearly you're wrong" or "you didn't care enough to read my essay, so nobody should listen to what you have to say about this topic."



If I'm actually invested in the topic, I read. When it gets to the third or fourth text wall, my investment tends to wane.


----------



## Davies

prabe said:


> Naturally!



Who's Nat, and why are you telling her to rally?


----------



## Gradine

Davies said:


> Who's Nat, and why are you telling her to rally?



She's ur ally, naturally


----------



## payn




----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I think the writers of such blocks of text fully understand that.  They depend on it, actually.  It gives them an 'out' when they're backed into a corner.  Stuff like "you didn't even _read my post, _so clearly you're wrong" or "you didn't care enough to read my essay, so nobody should listen to what you have to say about this topic."



There are some who bludgeon with word counts, I agree. There are others who just think long thoughts. It can be tricky to tell the difference.


----------



## CleverNickName

Manufactured outrage is Twitter's best-selling product.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> There are some who bludgeon with word counts, I agree. There are others who just think long thoughts. It can be tricky to tell the difference.



And there are some who start with long thoughts and then devolve to stating those thoughts in long prose, over and over again, to the benefit of no one.


----------



## payn




----------



## Cadence

"No one is saying...."

"Oh, wait, here's one."


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Ryujin said:


> I really hope that people understand that the majority of text walls are merely skimmed, if at all, rather than actually read.



It's only fair. They only got so long in the first place because we text wall authors didn't care to take the time to make them shorter.


----------



## Hussar

Aww, I wanted to make a cow pun but the thread moved on.


----------



## Mannahnin

Hussar said:


> Aww, I wanted to make a cow pun but the thread moved on.



I'm sorry.  That's some bull****.


----------



## prabe

I wish it was possible to talk about mismatched playstyle preferences without bashing what we do not like. No, I'm not perfect in this regard.


----------



## trappedslider

well that lasted longer than i thought it would


----------



## payn

There is no such thing as a neutral comment.


----------



## Cadence

It's not news without the new.


----------



## South by Southwest

Should'a kept my mouth shut 'n just walked away from that thread, too. Totally should'a.

Oh, well.


----------



## Alzrius

payn said:


> There is no such thing as a neutral comment.



Tell my wife I said "hello."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Alzrius said:


> Tell my wife I said "hello."




Tell your wife her butt looks big in those jeans. 

Wait. Is that still an insult? I haven’t been keeping up with the Kardashians.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Tell your wife her butt looks big in those jeans.
> 
> Wait. Is that still an insult? I haven’t been keeping up with the Kardashians.



Depends on whether and why she's been keeping up with them!


----------



## payn

Alzrius said:


> Tell my wife I said "hello."


----------



## South by Southwest

Have you ever installed a new bird feeder in the garden behind your house and watched all the birds squabble like maniacs over every last seed while feasting?

Yeah.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Have you ever installed a new bird feeder in the garden behind your house and watched all the birds squabble like maniacs over every last seed while feasting?
> 
> Yeah.



Nope just this.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Nope just this.



Oh, yeah, I see that stuff all the time (living in the woods guarantees it).

To abandon the analogy, I did find this wonderful stuff that doesn't fully stop the squirrels, but it does permanently reduce the frequency of their trips to the feeders; it's called Flaming Squirrel Sauce. Birds aren't sensitive to capsaicin, but squirrels are, right? Right. So what these geniuses did is they designed a _really strong_ hot sauce that you mix in with the bird seed before putting it into the feeders.

Quite simply, it works.

La voilà.





Gimme that.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Nope just this.



Hook that up to a battery and you've got yourself unlimited free energy! 
That's 1.21 gigawatts of pure squirrely entertainment, 27/7/365.


----------



## trappedslider

Turns out folks are interested in derailing a thread than actually having a discussion in it's own thread


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> Hook that up to a battery and you've got yourself unlimited free energy!
> That's 1.21 gigawatts of pure squirrely entertainment, 27/7/365.



I refer you to *The Best of the Journal of Irreproducible Results*, where a contributor did the math to determine just how much energy you could get from a buttered cat, i.e. a cat that had a piece of buttered toast strapped to its back, butter side up. This was later illustrated in this informative video.


----------



## South by Southwest

Wow. An ad that's actually clever and funny.

Many try, but few succeed.


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> Turns out folks are interested in derailing a thread than actually having a discussion in it's own thread



Sometimes I wish a big chunk of the whole internet would fork off and go somewhere else.
Such as Neptune, perhaps.

_* edited to correct an awkward typo!_


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Sometimes I wish a big chink of the whole internet would fork off and go somewhere else.
> Such as Neptune, perhaps.



Proxima Centauri would be my preference.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> Proxima Centauri would be my preference.




Black holes presumably exist for some reason ...


----------



## billd91

Did we even watch/read the same movie/show/book?!?


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Sometimes I wish a big chunk of the whole internet would fork off and go somewhere else.
> Such as Neptune, perhaps.
> 
> _* edited to correct an awkward typo!_



I hear that Venus is nice and toasty, this season.


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> Did we even watch/read the same movie/show/book?!?



Easiest way to tell if you watched the bootleg ripoff is if you disagree with my opinion, right?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> Did we even read the same book?!?




Doubtful. I can't read. It's my secret shame. What's the word for that?

Oh yeah. I'm illegitimate.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Well that’s a new one. 

I’ve been blocked for good reasons, bad reasons, and no reason. 

But I’m reasonably certain that’s the first time a mod blocked me. 

Clearly, doing the bidding of Big Pineapple(tm)!!!!!!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well that’s a new one.
> 
> I’ve been blocked for good reasons, bad reasons, and no reason.
> 
> But I’m reasonably certain that’s the first time a mod blocked me.
> 
> Clearly, doing the bidding of Big Pineapple(tm)!!!!!!



Didn't think that I'd ever been on a board where a mod could block. I certainly haven't been able to do so on the boards where I"m a mod, because that sort of defeats the purpose.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Didn't think that I'd ever been on a board where a mod could block. I certainly haven't been able to do so on the boards where I"m a mod, because that sort of defeats the purpose.




You would think so!

Apparently my absence did not make the heart grow fonder.

On the other hand, I can currently assure that absinthe does make the heart grow fonder. Or fondue. Damn you to hell, green fairie!


----------



## CleverNickName

In the USA:  (puts pineapple on pizza) "Behold, I have created something controversial!  Are you not shocked?!  Are you not amazed?!"

Meanwhile in New Zealand:


----------



## South by Southwest

Is that...is that kiwi and red onions???


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## CleverNickName

South by Southwest said:


>


----------



## CleverNickName

I feel the same way about candy corn, too.  It's not _that bad,_ people only hate it because Twitter told them to.





This post totally isn't about houserules.  Nope.  Just a lively pizza discussion, no subtext here.


----------



## South by Southwest

CleverNickName said:


> ...people only hate it because Twitter told them to.



See, I feel exactly that way about people claiming to _like_ gin. Gin is disgusting; the only reason people drink it is because whole cadres of "influencers" keep post-bombing about how great it is.

Well, and you put it in martinis and martinis actually aren't so bad.


----------



## CleverNickName

Eh, gin is _alright _I guess.  It's no aged Kentucky bourbon, but it's fine.


----------



## Parmandur

South by Southwest said:


> See, I feel exactly that way about people claiming to _like_ gin. Gin is disgusting; the only reason people drink it is because whole cadres of "influencers" keep post-bombing about how great it is.
> 
> Well, and you put it in martinis and martinis actually aren't so bad.



It mixes well. Straight, sure, it tastes like car fuel.


----------



## South by Southwest

CleverNickName said:


> Eh, gin is _alright _I guess.  It's no *aged Kentucky bourbon*, but it's fine.



_Now_ you're talkin'!!


----------



## CleverNickName

South by Southwest said:


> _Now_ you're talkin'!!


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


>



You water down your bourbon?


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> You water down your bourbon?



Mind your business.

.

.

.

(I feel like a wink emoji would have cheapened my response, so just pretend it's there.)


----------



## Hussar

South by Southwest said:


> See, I feel exactly that way about people claiming to _like_ gin. Gin is disgusting; the only reason people drink it is because whole cadres of "influencers" keep post-bombing about how great it is.
> 
> Well, and you put it in martinis and martinis actually aren't so bad.




Gin and lemonade has been a staple in my house in the summer for a lot longer than the Internet’s been around. 

Great summer drink. Gin and Wink is great too. ( yes, I am Canadian why do you ask?)

Omg autocorrect changed gin to gun. Gun and wink would be a totally different thing. And now my autocorrect is totally confused about whether I’m typing gin or gun. Lol.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

CleverNickName said:


> I feel the same way about candy corn, too. It's not _that bad,_ people only hate it because Twitter told them to.



Maybe some people only come to such a sensible realization through the intervention of Twitter. I've loathed candy corn since at least the late 1980s, so I'm pretty sure that rules out the influence of Twitter.


----------



## Parmandur

Candy corn is literally the best.


----------



## trappedslider

Instead of making a thread you could have made a blog post, unless you're going to actively engage in the thread a blog post would be about the same.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


>



One of the best parts of Iron man 1 is how Jeff bridges managed to turn the act of taking a sip of whiskey into a long, intense, incredibly menacing event. As one reviewer put it, "he drinks the _naughty word_ out of a glass of Scotch."


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Parmandur said:


> Candy corn is literally the best.



Having actively avoided tasting it for over a quarter century now I have no memory of its taste and can not really opine one way or another on its actual quality. However "literally the best" seems highly improbable. In any case kid me deemed it garbage tier, and I'm going to trust his rating on this one.


----------



## Parmandur

Benjamin Olson said:


> Having actively avoided tasting it for over a quarter century now I have no memory of its taste and can not really opine one way or another on its actual quality. However "literally the best" seems highly improbable. In any case kid me deemed it garbage tier, and I'm going to trust his rating on this one.



It's Baked honey, it's totally dope.


----------



## Ryujin

Parmandur said:


> It's Baked honey, it's totally dope.



I would refer to the taste of the mass produced stuff as "wax, but with sugar."


----------



## Parmandur

Ryujin said:


> I would refer to the taste of the mass produced stuff as "wax, but with sugar."



Sounds great when you put it that way!

Good Candy Corn isn't even hard to find, it's just in the grocery store bulk aisle around here.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Behold!







CORN!


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Behold!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CORN!



At least it isn't pineapple.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> At least it isn't pineapple.




If you stare too long into the pizza oven ...






The pizza oven stares into you.


----------



## trappedslider

Finally.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Finally.



Indeed.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Indeed.


----------



## Parmandur

I want to make a candy orn amd pineapple pizza just because of this thread.


----------



## Mad_Jack

I'll just leave this alliterative little brain worm here, and sit back to revel in the wailing and gnashing of teeth...

Peeps and pineapple on a pizza.


----------



## prabe

Mad_Jack said:


> I'll just leave this alliterative little brain worm here, and sit back to revel in the wailing and gnashing of teeth...
> 
> Peeps and pineapple on a pizza.



A pineapple peepzza.


----------



## Parmandur

Mad_Jack said:


> I'll just leave this alliterative little brain worm here, and sit back to revel in the wailing and gnashing of teeth...
> 
> Peeps and pineapple on a pizza.



Throw on some candy corn, with a chocolate based sauce....


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> feel the same way about candy corn, too. It's not _that bad,_ people only hate it because Twitter told them to.



I'm with you on the pineapple pizza, but I knew candy corn was garbage before the internet was even a thing. 


Parmandur said:


> Candy corn is literally the best.
> It's Baked honey, it's totally dope.



Only somebody who thinks candy corn is "the best" would use the phrase "totally dope" lol


----------



## Parmandur

payn said:


> Only somebody who thinks candy corn is "the best" would use the phrase "totally dope" lol



Only a Sith speaks in absolutes. Don't be whack, that's hella messed up.


----------



## Hussar

I am constantly bemused by the lengths people will go to defend fictional characters.


----------



## Davies

Hussar said:


> I am constantly bemused by the lengths people will go to defend fictional characters.



I am constantly disgusted by the vitriol people employ when attacking fictional characters for their supposed crimes against _equally_ fictional characters.

Also, bemused means "confused", not "amused", which is what you clearly meant.


----------



## Cadence

Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes and forgot.

- Gaiman


----------



## Hussar

Davies said:


> I am constantly disgusted by the vitriol people employ when attacking fictional characters for their supposed crimes against _equally_ fictional characters.
> 
> Also, bemused means "confused", not "amused", which is what you clearly meant.



Oh no. I meant bemused.  Not amused about it at all.  I find it endlessly confusing to be honest.  I can't imagine being that invested in a fictional character that I would ever go to the lengths that I see people go to to "prove" that their fictional character isn't all that bad.  Whether it's endlessly claiming that Belkar from Order of the Stick wasn't evil or now Wanda Maximoff isn't really a villain, just misunderstood, I do find it bemusing, baffling and frankly, just a teensy bit frightening that people would get so invested in a character that no matter the evidence to the contrary, that character can never, ever be seen as a villain or bad.

So, no, I didn't not "clearly" mean amused at all.  I don't think it's amusing in the slightest.


----------



## Davies

Hussar said:


> Oh no. I meant bemused.  Not amused about it at all.  I find it endlessly confusing to be honest.  I can't imagine being that invested in a fictional character that I would ever go to the lengths that I see people go to to "prove" that their fictional character isn't all that bad.  Whether it's endlessly claiming that Belkar from Order of the Stick wasn't evil or now Wanda Maximoff isn't really a villain, just misunderstood, I do find it bemusing, baffling and frankly, just a teensy bit frightening that people would get so invested in a character that no matter the evidence to the contrary, that character can never, ever be seen as a villain or bad.
> 
> So, no, I didn't not "clearly" mean amused at all.  I don't think it's amusing in the slightest.



My apologies, then. It's a shame that your attempts to express this confusion are indistinguishable from attempts to provoke the anger of those who do become so invested, out of amusement at their frustration.


----------



## Cadence

Dear Tasha,

I think my friends have a problem and am writing to see how I can help them.  They each have strange views of pizza they fixate on.  When a joke is made about pineapple, Xanthar always points out that he likes it, Mordenkainen will always comment that he actually likes Pizza Hut if it gets ripped on, Fizban likes Detroit style, etc... Even though I don't really care about Pizza, I spend hundreds of hours trying to point out why they're objectively wrong.  How can I get them to see they clearly need help?

-Volo
Lost on the Sword Coast


----------



## Hussar

Davies said:


> My apologies, then. It's a shame that your attempts to express this confusion are indistinguishable from attempts to provoke the anger of those who do become so invested, out of amusement at their frustration.




Like I said. Baffling.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes and forgot.
> 
> - Gaiman




_It wasn't me._

-Shaggy


----------



## Davies

From Wikipedia's page on "Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer":

"The running gag was that Keyrock would speak in a slick and smoothly self-assured manner—but with obviously feigned naiveté—to a jury or an audience about how things in the modern world supposedly "confuse and frighten" him. He often emphasized the latter phrase with air-quotes or a showy gesture, which underscored his obvious disingenuousness."

I just felt like posting that. No reason.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Is there some kind of weird passive-aggressive thing going on here? Or aggressive-aggressive?

There are a ton of threads for that!

This thread is for pizza and pizza-adjacent topics. If you can't find a way to bring your topic around to pizza or fictional places like Atlantis, New Zealand, Asgard, and Canada ... maybe it's best to have the actual argument in the thread that spawned it?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _It wasn't me._
> 
> -Shaggy



An aside of an aside's aside....

I know the people who did the motorcycle work in that video. I was pit crew for the girl who was the stand in for the woman rider for maybe 5 years. She was the first woman to win a professional motorcycle racing championship in Canada.


----------



## trappedslider

I've said before and i'll say it nerds/geeks are some of the best and worse fans.


----------



## Hussar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Is there some kind of weird passive-aggressive thing going on here? Or aggressive-aggressive?
> 
> There are a ton of threads for that!
> 
> This thread is for pizza and pizza-adjacent topics. If you can't find a way to bring your topic around to pizza or fictional places like Atlantis, New Zealand, Asgard, and Canada ... maybe it's best to have the actual argument in the thread that spawned it?



I think aggressive-aggressive.  

And, yes, I totally agree that keeping the argument to the thread that spawned it, and at least having the decency to respond in that thread at all would be a far better use of time.


----------



## Gradine

Excuse me, this is a thread for mocking pineapple on pizza, not each other


----------



## Hussar

Gradine said:


> Excuse me, this is a thread for mocking pineapple on pizza, not each other



Heh, in my family, when I make pizza, I have to make two.  One with pineapple and one without.  Compromise is key.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Excuse me, this is a thread for mocking pineapple on pizza, not each other



Or for flaunting the pineapple on pizza thug life.


----------



## Gradine

Look, we all know what kind of pizza I eat, I won't throw any stones in this exceptionally brittle glass house, but at some point you gotta draw the line


----------



## payn

This is how you do it!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Davies said:


> My apologies, then. It's a shame that your attempts to express this confusion are indistinguishable from attempts to provoke the anger of those who do become so invested, out of amusement at their frustration.



*Mod Note: *

If your concern is the provocation of others, perhaps you should have kept this post down to the first sentence.  Keep that in mind going forward.

_Everyone._


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes and forgot.
> 
> - Gaiman



Reminds me of this quote from Terry Pratchett's Small Gods:


Spoiler: Vorbis's Quote About Truth



“My lord?” said Brutha.

“Yes, Brutha?”

“I would like to ask you a question.”

“Do so.”

“What happened to Brother Murduck?”

There was the merest suggestion of hesitation in the rhythm of Vorbis’s stick on the cobbles. Then the exquisitor said, “Truth, good Brutha, is like the light. Do you know about light?”

“It…comes from the sun. And the moon and stars. And candles. And lamps.”

“And so on,” said Vorbis, nodding. “Of course. But there is another kind of light. A light that fills even the darkest of places. This has to be. For if this meta-light did not exist, how could darkness be seen?”

Brutha said nothing. This sounded too much like philosophy.

“And so it is with truth,” said Vorbis. “There are some things which appear to be the truth, which have all the hallmarks of truth, but which are not the real truth. The real truth must sometimes be protected by a labyrinth of lies.”

He turned to Brutha. “Do you understand me?”

“No, Lord Vorbis.”

*“I mean, that which appears to our senses is not the fundamental truth. Things that are seen and heard and done by the flesh are mere shadows of a deeper reality. This is what you must understand as you progress in the Church.”*

“But at the moment, lord, I know only the trivial truth, the truth available on the outside,” said Brutha. He felt as though he was at the edge of a pit.

“That is how we all begin,” said Vorbis kindly.

“So did the Ephebians kill Brother Murduck?” Brutha persisted. Now he was inching out over the darkness.

“I am telling you that in the deepest sense of the truth they did. By their failure to embrace his words, by their intransigence, they surely killed him.”

“But in the trivial sense of the truth,” said Brutha, picking every word with the care an inquisitor might give to his patient in the depths of the Citadel, “in the trivial sense, Brother Murduck died, did he not, in Omnia, because he had not died in Ephebe, had been merely mocked, but it was feared that others in the Church might not understand the, the deeper truth, and thus it was put about that the Ephebians had killed him in, in the trivial sense, thus giving you, and those who saw the truth of the evil of Ephebe, due cause to launch a—a just retaliation.”

They walked past a fountain. The deacon’s steel-shod staff clicked in the night.

“I see a great future for you in the Church,” said Vorbis, eventually. “The time of the eighth Prophet is coming. A time of expansion, and great opportunity for those true in the service of Om.”


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Look, we all know what kind of pizza I eat, I won't throw any stones in this exceptionally brittle glass house, but at some point you gotta draw the line



I don't care for onions on pizza. Or onions on anything else.


----------



## Cadence

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Reminds me of this quote from Terry Pratchett's Small Gods:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Vorbis's Quote About Truth
> 
> 
> 
> “My lord?” said Brutha.
> 
> “Yes, Brutha?”
> 
> “I would like to ask you a question.”
> 
> “Do so.”
> 
> “What happened to Brother Murduck?”
> 
> There was the merest suggestion of hesitation in the rhythm of Vorbis’s stick on the cobbles. Then the exquisitor said, “Truth, good Brutha, is like the light. Do you know about light?”
> 
> “It…comes from the sun. And the moon and stars. And candles. And lamps.”
> 
> “And so on,” said Vorbis, nodding. “Of course. But there is another kind of light. A light that fills even the darkest of places. This has to be. For if this meta-light did not exist, how could darkness be seen?”
> 
> Brutha said nothing. This sounded too much like philosophy.
> 
> “And so it is with truth,” said Vorbis. “There are some things which appear to be the truth, which have all the hallmarks of truth, but which are not the real truth. The real truth must sometimes be protected by a labyrinth of lies.”
> 
> He turned to Brutha. “Do you understand me?”
> 
> “No, Lord Vorbis.”
> 
> *“I mean, that which appears to our senses is not the fundamental truth. Things that are seen and heard and done by the flesh are mere shadows of a deeper reality. This is what you must understand as you progress in the Church.”*
> 
> “But at the moment, lord, I know only the trivial truth, the truth available on the outside,” said Brutha. He felt as though he was at the edge of a pit.
> 
> “That is how we all begin,” said Vorbis kindly.
> 
> “So did the Ephebians kill Brother Murduck?” Brutha persisted. Now he was inching out over the darkness.
> 
> “I am telling you that in the deepest sense of the truth they did. By their failure to embrace his words, by their intransigence, they surely killed him.”
> 
> “But in the trivial sense of the truth,” said Brutha, picking every word with the care an inquisitor might give to his patient in the depths of the Citadel, “in the trivial sense, Brother Murduck died, did he not, in Omnia, because he had not died in Ephebe, had been merely mocked, but it was feared that others in the Church might not understand the, the deeper truth, and thus it was put about that the Ephebians had killed him in, in the trivial sense, thus giving you, and those who saw the truth of the evil of Ephebe, due cause to launch a—a just retaliation.”
> 
> They walked past a fountain. The deacon’s steel-shod staff clicked in the night.
> 
> “I see a great future for you in the Church,” said Vorbis, eventually. “The time of the eighth Prophet is coming. A time of expansion, and great opportunity for those true in the service of Om.”



Definitely reminiscent. Written round the same time too. (The Sandman Midsummer's Night Dream was 1990 and Small Gods was 1992).


----------



## payn

Parmandur said:


> I don't care for onions on pizza. Or onions on anything else.



Finally, something we can agree on.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


>




I still don't think I'm going to give Joyce's Ulysses another try...


----------



## Mannahnin

South by Southwest said:


> See, I feel exactly that way about people claiming to _like_ gin. Gin is disgusting; the only reason people drink it is because whole cadres of "influencers" keep post-bombing about how great it is.
> 
> Well, and you put it in martinis and martinis actually aren't so bad.






Parmandur said:


> It mixes well. Straight, sure, it tastes like car fuel.



Gin is just vodka with flavor.  I wouldn't drink vodka straight either, but I don't generally bother making mixed drinks with vodka anymore.  

There's definitely a good variety of gins, too.  Some have a much less "punch of pine tar in my mouth" level of juniper.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Gin is just vodka with flavor.  I wouldn't drink vodka straight either, but I don't generally bother making mixed drinks with vodka anymore.
> 
> There's definitely a good variety of gins, too.  Some have a much less "punch of pine tar in my mouth" level of juniper.




Gin .... _is just vodka with flavor?_

Let's set a few ground rules, here.

First, I concur- anyone who makes mixed drinks with with vodka is doing it wrong. And anyone who makes cocktails with vodka is a MONSTER. The whole ideal of vodka is that it is tasteless- everything else is just marketing hype. You might as well say, "Get some mixers and add the booze, 'cuz I like getting likkered up."

...don't get me wrong. I like getting likkered up too. BUT I'M CLASSY ABOUT IT. Vodka is class, but without the first two letters. 

Second, there is no such thing as a gin martini. Martinis are GIN. If you make some other abomination, you're making a cocktail. And if you're making a vodka martini, you're making sewer water.

Third, everyone knows that a martini is only an excuse to drink chilled gin. All that "extra dry" or "extra extra dry" or "rinse the shaker with vermouth and pour it out" or "bow towards France" stuff? The whole point is to lower the amount of vermouth until it's a faint memory and you're drinking yummy yummy gin.

I've said my piece. And you know it to be true.


----------



## dragoner

“There are all kinds of truth ... but behind all of them there is only one truth and that is that there's no truth.”  
 - Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood


----------



## Mannahnin

dragoner said:


> “There are all kinds of truth ... but behind all of them there is only one truth and that is that there's no truth.”
> - Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood



I thought the movie version, with Brad Dourif and Harry Dean Stanton, was pretty good.

But damn, is O'Connor dark.


----------



## dragoner

Mannahnin said:


> I thought the movie version, with Brad Dourif and Harry Dean Stanton, was pretty good.
> 
> But damn, is O'Connor dark.



She is, very much so, there is a song by Killdozer, Flannery O'Connor: "She wrote many books and then death was upon her." The Displaced Person from A Good Man is Hard to Find, and The Violent Bear It Away are also great.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Gin .... _is just vodka with flavor?_
> 
> Let's set a few ground rules, here.
> 
> First, I concur- anyone who makes mixed drinks with with vodka is doing it wrong. And anyone who makes cocktails with vodka is a MONSTER. The whole ideal of vodka is that it is tasteless- everything else is just marketing hype. You might as well say, "Get some mixers and add the booze, 'cuz I like getting likkered up."
> 
> ...don't get me wrong. I like getting likkered up too. BUT I'M CLASSY ABOUT IT. Vodka is class, but without the first two letters.
> 
> Second, there is no such thing as a gin martini. Martinis are GIN. If you make some other abomination, you're making a cocktail. And if you're making a vodka martini, you're making sewer water.
> 
> Third, everyone knows that a martini is only an excuse to drink chilled gin. All that "extra dry" or "extra extra dry" or "rinse the shaker with vermouth and pour it out" or "bow towards France" stuff? The whole point is to lower the amount of vermouth until it's a faint memory and you're drinking yummy yummy gin.
> 
> I've said my piece. And you know it to be true.



I prefer a cognac sazerac, but then again, I'm classy AF.


----------



## Mannahnin

payn said:


> I prefer a cognac sazerac, but then again, I'm classy AF.



Heretic!  The best sazerac is with rye.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

@payn
@Mannahnin

Oh, I love a good Sazerac!

I'm all like, "Can I have a Sazerac? Hold the rye. Hold the Peychaud's. Hold the glass. Just bring me the bottle of absinthe."

It's called a Snarf's Sazarac.


----------



## payn

Mannahnin said:


> Heretic!  The best sazerac is with rye.



Na, thats flying coach.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> @payn
> @Mannahnin
> 
> Oh, I love a good Sazerac!
> 
> I'm all like, "Can I have a Sazerac? Hold the rye. Hold the Peychaud's. Hold the glass. Just bring me the bottle of absinthe."
> 
> It's called a Snarf's Sazarac.



For my 30th I just drank absinthe on the rocks all night.

Nowadays absinthe is an accent for me, not the main course.  I do enjoy it in a Sazerac, Corpse Reviver #2, or a Death in the Afternoon, though.  And a drop in my Old Fashioneds.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> For my 30th I just drank absinthe on the rocks all night.
> 
> Nowadays absinthe is an accent for me, not the main course.  I do enjoy it in a Sazerac, Corpse Reviver #2, or a Death in the Afternoon, though.  And a drop in my Old Fashioneds.




On my most recent sojourn, I was experimenting with spritzes and negronis. I have found that I like my drinks like I like myself- BITTER.

Anyway, a Negroni with Cynar subbed in for Campari is excellent. Also? I was dabbling in some straight-up amari.

Best? 
Il 28 di Via San Nicolao. (Berta Disterrie)
Maybe the most complex, engaging digestif I have ever had. 

The ... most one-note, yet I still am like, wut?
Anima Nera.
It's the taste of black twizzlers distilled into a drink. Really.


----------



## prabe

Wow. I sleep in and look what I miss. I committed the error (in the sense of my own mental health) of plowing through The Collected Stories of Flannery O'Connor, a couple of years ago. Good stories but awfully dark to read without relief the way I did. Apparently the movie of Wise Blood has a line that Ministry sampled in the long version of "Jesus Built My Hotrod" that's always stuck with me: "Where you come from is gone. Where you thought you were going weren't never there. And where you are ain't no good if you can't get away from it." I'm much more of a beer nerd than a spirits nerd, but I like the stronger stuff just fine--I'm not any kind of purist about booze, though, and people are welcome to get their drunk on however they like. I use vodka mostly for cooking, as a deglaze, if something with more flavor seems as though it'll be out of place.


----------



## Cadence

The occasional recruitment note that we have a thread for brews that's expanded recently to spirits (the drinking, not haunting kind, although my first try at Gin haunted me enough I'm not going back)...  Virtual Happy Hour (Brews & Spirits, Pics & Reviews)


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> The occasional recruitment note that we have a thread for brews that's expanded recently to spirits (the drinking, not haunting kind, although my first try at Gin haunted me enough I'm not going back)...  Virtual Happy Hour (Brews & Spirits, Pics & Reviews)



I spent *years* taking pics and notes when I drank beer. I got to the point where it felt as though doing so was distracting me from the beer (which I admit is weird) and I stopped.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> I spent *years* taking pics and notes when I drank beer. I got to the point where it felt as though doing so was distracting me from the beer (which I admit is weird) and I stopped.




Understand.  For a while a friend and I would use Beer Advocate at Happy Hour and it sucked the life out of it.  Now I just snap the picture of it and type up a general impression later.  (Except the pumpkins, which I've apparently decided to obsess over).  It's also easier usually being one now instead of the two or three it used to be.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> The occasional recruitment note that we have a thread for brews that's expanded recently to spirits (the drinking, not haunting kind, although my first try at Gin haunted me enough I'm not going back)...  Virtual Happy Hour (Brews & Spirits, Pics & Reviews)




I would never be a part of any group with standards so low that they would have me as a member.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I would never be a part of any group with standards so low that they would have me as a member.



Thank you, Groucho.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Thank you, Groucho.




I usually go by Grouchy.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I usually go by Grouchy.



I thought you usually went by "Snarf."


----------



## Gradine




----------



## payn

"The game must change! Though, it also must play the old school way!"


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> "The game must change! Though, it also must play the my old school way!"




FTFY.


----------



## CleverNickName

To answer your question:
_BECAUSE THEY'RE GNOMES._


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> To answer your question:
> _BECAUSE THEY'RE GNOMES._



At least they're not Kenku. There, I said it. Kenku are among the most annoying player races in the history of D&D. The only way to properly play them is to be a professional voice actor or completely ignore the whole mimicing voices part in the real world. 

Actually, if a D&D race's name starts with the letters K E N, it's probably one that I don't like.


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> At least they're not Kenku. There, I said it. Kenku are among the most annoying player races in the history of D&D. The only way to properly play them is to be a professional voice actor or completely ignore the whole mimicing voices part in the real world.
> 
> Actually, if a D&D race's name starts with the letters K E N, it's probably one that I don't like.



I'll be honest, I had to look up what a Kenku even was.


----------



## Ryujin

Never played one. Did play a Were Raven once though.


----------



## Gradine

Kenku are pretty cool. I've used them in past editions. 5e added the whole "mimic sounds" shtick which is, you know, whatever.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Gradine said:


> Kenku are pretty cool. I've used them in past editions. 5e added the whole "mimic sounds" shtick which is, you know, whatever.



I think they're a fine monster (especially if they were fey), I just think that the whole "you only can speak by mimicking others" is a really obnoxious trait for a race to have. And a ton of people complained when Monsters of the Multiverse changed that part of them. 

(Was their whole Mimicry feature not a thing in previous editions? I thought they got that from whatever folklore creature they're based off of?)


----------



## billd91

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I think they're a fine monster (especially if they were fey), I just think that the whole "you only can speak by mimicking others" is a really obnoxious trait for a race to have. And a ton of people complained when Monsters of the Multiverse changed that part of them.
> 
> (Was their whole Mimicry feature not a thing in previous editions? I thought they got that from whatever folklore creature they're based off of?)



Mimicry pretty much did exist in 3.5e, but they didn't debut in that edition until Monster Manual 3. The 2e Kenku didn't have mimicry that I know of.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Kenku are pretty cool. I've used them in past editions. 5e added the whole "mimic sounds" shtick which is, you know, whatever.



Which has gone away as of Monsters of the Multiverse. Now Kenku are good at minic8ng sounds, but it's not central to their identity.


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> I still don't think I'm going to give Joyce's Ulysses another try...



Oh, God, that book.....


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> “There are all kinds of truth ... but behind all of them there is only one truth and that is that there's no truth.”
> - Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood




_When a certain stage of responsibility and awareness has been reached by a young banker he is taken to a room lined with family portraits in the middle of which is an ornate gilded toilet. Here he comes every day to defecate surrounded by the family portraits until he realizes that money is s**. *And what does the money machine eat to s* it out? It eats youth, spontaneity, life, beauty and above all it eats creativity. It eats quality and shits out quantity. There was a time when the machine ate in moderation from a plentiful larder and what it ate was replaced. Now the machine is eating faster._

Flannery O'Connor's issue wasn't that she was dark; it was that she was sugar-coating reality.


----------



## dragoner

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Flannery O'Connor's issue wasn't that she was dark; it was that she was sugar-coating reality.



She's dark like a southern gothic fingerprint on the rose colored lenses looking to the post ww2 era. I think I remember another quote by her: "You can't be any poorer than dead."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> She's dark like a southern gothic fingerprint on the rose colored lenses looking to the post ww2 era. I think I remember another quote by her: "You can't be any poorer than dead."




Well as, one judge said to the other, 'Be just and if you can't be just be arbitrary.' Regret cannot observe customary obscenities.

We are young.
Heartache to heartache we stand.
No promises, no demands.


----------



## payn

“That man who sets himself the task of singling out the thread of order from the tapestry will by the decision alone have taken charge of the world and it is only by such taking charge that he will effect a way to dictate the terms of his own fate.” - Judge Holden

Cormac McCarthy from the un-filmable_ Blood Meridian_


----------



## dragoner

“The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it all from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning."
-Blood Meridian

Another quote about truth.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> “The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it all from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning."
> -Blood Meridian
> 
> Another quote about truth.




_He felt a killing hate for the stupid, ordinary, disapproving people who kept him from doing what he wanted to do. "Someday I am going to have things just like I want," he said to himself. "And if any moralizing son of a bitch gives me any static, they will fish him out of the river."_

That is the truth; we just gussy up falsehoods around it to make ourselves feel better. #mywayisthetrueway


----------



## CleverNickName

"Now that's entertainment!"
-Vlaad the Impaler, c. 1475, possibly referring to gnomes


----------



## payn

"Well the truth is usually just an excuse for lack of an imagination"
-Elam Garak


----------



## Ryujin

"That's entertainment!" - Caligula


----------



## payn

When you need a Hawaiian pizza; who you gonna call?


----------



## RealAlHazred

"You can never trust anything you see on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln Michael Scott


----------



## RealAlHazred

Also, I hope everybody practiced safe celebrating this Fourth of July.


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Also, I hope everybody practiced safe celebrating this Fourth of July.



Got all my fingers and toes still!


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Also, I hope everybody practiced safe celebrating this Fourth of July.



And the hoooooooome
of thaaaaaaa
buh-raaaaaaaaaaaaave!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Really, the only thing they did wrong was putting the bottle rocket in the dirt. It doesn't have enough force to pull itself out; that's why they call them bottle rockets. Storing the rest of the fireworks under the gas tank of the car is a good way to do it, especially if the car is insured. And keeping a baby in front of you, six feet from the fireworks, is just solid self-defense!


----------



## el-remmen

To paraphrase the philosopher Miley Cyrus, "those threads you write but never post. . . that's who you really are."


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Really, the only thing they did wrong was putting the bottle rocket in the dirt. It doesn't have enough force to pull itself out; that's why they call them bottle rockets. Storing the rest of the fireworks under the gas tank of the car is a good way to do it, especially if the car is insured. And keeping a baby in front of you, six feet from the fireworks, is just solid self-defense!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> To paraphrase the philosopher Miley Cyrus, "those threads you write but never post. . . that's who you really are."




I'm not sure I understand this concept. Not only do I find it inconceivable that I would deprive the world of every single thought that might go whooshing in the vacuum betwixt my ears, I am reasonably certain I have posted threads I have never written.


----------



## CleverNickName

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Really, the only thing they did wrong was putting the bottle rocket in the dirt.



Pfff, hardly.

It's too late to help the family in that video, but here's some basic fireworks safety tips for next year's festivities: 




__





						Fireworks
					






					www.cpsc.gov


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm not sure I understand this concept. Not only do I find it inconceivable that I would deprive the world of every single thought that might go whooshing in the vacuum betwixt my ears, I am reasonably certain I have posted threads I have never written.



To paraphrase party girl, Gertrude Stein, "Snarf Zagyg? There is no there there."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> To paraphrase party girl, Gertrude Stein, "Snarf Zagyg? There is no there there."




A great many people have PM'd me and asked me how I manage to write so many comments while living such a dissipated lifestyle. My answer is always the same, “Don’t you wish you knew?” and a pretty good answer it is too, when you consider that nine times out of ten I am in my cups and incapable of reading their PM.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> A great many people have PM'd me and asked me how I manage to write so many comments while living such a dissipated lifestyle. My answer is always the same, “Don’t you wish you knew?” and a pretty good answer it is too, when you consider that nine times out of ten I am in my cups and incapable of reading their PM.



A great many people have contacted me and asked me how I manage to be so cool. My answer is always the same, "Who are you? How did you get this number? Never contact me again!" And yet, they keep calling...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> A great many people have contacted me and asked me how I manage to be so cool. My answer is always the same, "Who are you? How did you get this number? Never contact me again!"




Oh, you sweet zoomer. It's called a phone book!






You are somebody. To quote my mama, "Snarf, you're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people ... well, they almost tolerate you."


----------



## South by Southwest

Levity is lost on the terminally self-serious.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Levity is lost on the terminally self-serious.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> Levity is lost on the terminally self-serious.




I'm as serious as the Dog Star.


Wait for it. Oh yeah. GNOMECORE!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Spoiler: Rant about how autism makes it difficult to interact with communities online



I'm weird. I know this about myself, and it often causes conflicts online. I'm different from other people, and sometimes this gets me into misunderstandings with other people because I'm not acting like the typical person/fan would. I'm weird in my thinking, my opinions, and my way of interacting with other people. When some people would be unreasonable, I'm often reasonable to the point that it's abnormal and make people uncomfortable (especially with jokes, ugh). And other times I'm unreasonable when other people would be reasonable (especially with foods. I hate avocados, onions, tomatoes, mayo, and ranch to unreasonable extents. Any foods that have them in them are practically inedible to me). 

I'm weirder than the average nerd, and the average nerd is already considered weird by the standards of non-nerds. 

I'm autistic, and it's frustrating to me too. I'm sorry if/when this causes conflicts with other people.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I have a confession as well.

I have never played D&D. Or any TTRPG.

I was hired two years ago to join this site as part of an astroturfing effort to drum up support for the greatest Candian band ever. Nickelback. 

Wait, did I say Canadian? I meant the greatest BAND IN ALL OF HISTORY, FOREVER. It took me two years of lengthy posts about some place named Greyhawk and/or pineapples on pizza to build my "street cred," but I've finally gone full Nickelback.

#sorrynotsorry
#Nickelback4ever


----------



## Davies

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have a confession as well.
> 
> I have never played D&D. Or any TTRPG.
> 
> I was hired two years ago to join this site as part of an astroturfing effort to drum up support for the greatest Candian band ever. Nickelback.



Much now becomes clear. <nods>


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have a confession as well.



I've got a confession too

i'm kilroy


----------



## Davies

trappedslider said:


> I've got a confession too
> 
> i'm kilroy



This, on the other hand, is a most implausible narrative; nothing that you've said prior to this suggests that you could have been around during World War II.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Not really related to anything in particular but this made me laugh and then stare off into the middle distance.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have a confession as well.
> 
> I have never played D&D. Or any TTRPG.
> 
> I was hired two years ago to join this site as part of an astroturfing effort to drum up support for the greatest Candian band ever. Nickelback.
> 
> Wait, did I say Canadian? I meant the greatest BAND IN ALL OF HISTORY, FOREVER. It took me two years of lengthy posts about some place named Greyhawk and/or pineapples on pizza to build my "street cred," but I've finally gone full Nickelback.
> 
> #sorrynotsorry
> #Nickelback4ever



I really don't get the hate for Nickelback. They were popular for a reason and it's not like everyone that now claims to hate them can say they never listened to them.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> I really don't get the hate for Nickelback. They were popular for a reason and it's not like everyone that now claims to hate them can say they never listened to them.



Two minutes hate.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Look at this photograph, every time I see it it makes me laugh.


----------



## Mannahnin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> A great many people have contacted me and asked me how I manage to be so cool. My answer is always the same, "Who are you? How did you get this number? Never contact me again!" And yet, they keep calling...



People frequently come up to me and ask, "is it pronounced Man-NAH-nin or Mah-nan-in?", and my answer is always the same- "How dare you speak to me?"


----------



## payn

Mannahnin said:


> People frequently come up to me and ask, "is it pronounced Man-NAH-nin or Mah-nan-in?", and my answer is always the same- "How dare you speak to me?"



I just tell them to pronounce it however they like, but keep the bourbon coming.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mannahnin said:


> People frequently come up to me and ask, "is it pronounced Man-NAH-nin or Mah-nan-in?", and my answer is always the same- "How dare you speak to me?"


----------



## Gradine

Re-reading the Wheel of Time series and I've figured out that the reason why so many nerds love these is because every single female character in them, from the main cast to random inn cooks, absolutely can and will step on you.


----------



## trappedslider

Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the good ones, and sometimes you have to kill all the witnesses.


----------



## dragoner

Dark Tragedy? My apologies as I have done that irl, so I'll bow out.


----------



## Parmandur

Gradine said:


> Re-reading the Wheel of Time series and I've figured out that the reason why so many nerds love these is because every single female character in them, from the main cast to random inn cooks, absolutely can and will step on you.



Robert Jordan certainly had a type.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Gradine said:


> Re-reading the Wheel of Time series and I've figured out that the reason why so many nerds love these is because every single female character in them, from the main cast to random inn cooks, absolutely can and will step on you.



Unless you're attracted to Rand, in which case you can and will be absolutely fine living in a anime harem.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Day's not going great. 

Went to the proctologist today and he stuck his finger in my mouth.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Day's not going great.
> 
> Went to the proctologist today and he stuck his finger in my mouth.



When the doc asks for a full fluid sample, I just leave my boxers.


----------



## Cadence

(Not about _this_ thread).

I'm going to guess it was the people.


----------



## South by Southwest

Anyone here ever accidentally hit the site's <Switch Mode> button? That's a temporarily jarring experience.


----------



## Gradine

South by Southwest said:


> Anyone here ever accidentally hit the site's <Switch Mode> button? That's a temporarily jarring experience.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> Anyone here ever accidentally hit the site's <Switch Mode> button? That's a temporarily jarring experience.




Let's cross the streams ...

Hey ... you. YEAH YOU! You know that mode you're rocking? The one you're all comfy with?

UR DOING IT WRONG! That mode you're in? That's badwrongfun, son. You better click on that lightbulb and learn yourself what the real mode is like.

That's right.






Maybe you feel that this new mode is a little jarring. Maybe you don't like it? Well, SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP. This mode you're in now .... that's how we roll here at the ENWORLD. It's _objectively better_.


----------



## prabe

It's a good thing I don't allow the jakkenhammers in the Online Beer Community to reduce how much I enjoy drinking beer.


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> It's a good thing I don't allow the jakkenhammers in the Online Beer Community to reduce how much I enjoy drinking beer.



Ya done lost me this time: what's a jakkenhammer?

And never let anyone reduce how much you enjoy drinking beer!


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> Ya done lost me this time: what's a jakkenhammer?
> 
> And never let anyone reduce how much you enjoy drinking beer!



_Jakkenhammer_ is a neologism. It seemed to convey a certain unpleasantness of personality, and I liked the way it looked, and it didn't trip up the "naughty word" filter.


----------



## South by Southwest

Ahh...like the fabled jackalope. Now I'm with you.


----------



## J.Quondam

prabe said:


> _Jakkenhammer_ is a neologism. It seemed to convey a certain unpleasantness of personality, and I liked the way it looked, and it didn't trip up the "naughty word" filter.



I thought it was one of those things that makes you blind. 
Whether it does so by drinking it or by some other hobby activity I leave as an exercise for the reader.


----------



## South by Southwest

_...annnnnnd_ I just noped out of another thread.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> _...annnnnnd_ I just noped out of another thread.




I sometimes wonder if certain advocates realize that whatever they're for, other people will be against. 

Sometimes, the best way to attract people to something is ... well, just be positive about the thing you're FOR, not negative about the things you're AGAINST.


----------



## South by Southwest

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I sometimes wonder if certain advocates realize that whatever they're for, other people will be against.
> 
> Sometimes, the best way to attract people to something is ... well, just be positive about the thing you're FOR, not negative about the things you're AGAINST.



Oh, I don't even mind the threads with heavy advocacy: those're fine by my lights. It's from the threads in which every last little tangent devolves into accusatory quarrels that I seek greener pastures.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> Oh, I don't even mind the threads with heavy advocacy: those're fine by my lights. It's from the threads in which everything last little tangent devolves into accusatory quarrels that I seek greener pastures.




D&D is far too important to be taken seriously!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> D&D is far too important to be taken seriously!


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> D&D is far too important to be taken seriously!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


>


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


>


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Whenever people say something like "you can't control my language! I have a right to be rude!", I think of this XKCD. 


Spoiler: In spoilers due to language


----------



## Mad_Jack

Mannahnin said:


> People frequently come up to me and ask, "is it pronounced Man-NAH-nin or Mah-nan-in?", and my answer is always the same- "How dare you speak to me?"




People frequently come up to me and ask, "WTF kind of drugs are you on???" I always reply, "Moo."

(This tends to confuse them, and usually results in them wandering off shaking their head. Which makes me happy.)


----------



## prabe

People frequently come up to me and ask, "Kfke ofjo forweaoua sioof?" I always stare blankly at them.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> People frequently come up to me and ask, "Kfke ofjo forweaoua sioof?" I always stare blankly at them.



lol, Prabe doesn't get it.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> lol, Prabe doesn't get it.


----------



## South by Southwest

A collective obsession with semantic precision always makes all jokes funnier. People who don't believe that just don't understand humor.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> People frequently come up to me and ask, "WTF kind of drugs are you on???" I always reply, "Moo."
> 
> (This tends to confuse them, and usually results in them wandering off shaking their head. Which makes me happy.)




When people ask me, "WTF kind of drugs are you on," I always reply, "What do you have, and why are you holding out on me?"


----------



## CleverNickName

Today on ENWorld, I learned that frogs and chameleons aren't _actually_ hiding from their prey when they blend into their surroundings.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

So I was thinking ... if you're really bored, you should start a thread in Geek Media.

And the thread should be ... "If Bruce Wayne existed in the real world, he'd be trying to sell you NFTs."

....and then see what happens. 

In related news, I may need another hobby.


----------



## el-remmen

Sorry, I'd post at length here, but I am too busy taking the most narrow and least generous view of something someone suggested in another thread in order to obsess over it while ignoring any other good points made or the spirit of the thread itself. . .  Oh wait. . . that isn't me doing that, it is someone I'd have to keep myself from throttling if the exchange happened in real life.


----------



## Cadence

"Because the other choice has naturally warm feet.  And no one likes having cold feet (either in themselves or in a partner)."


----------



## dragoner

I do terribad with silent letters, like I posted a frigate on fb, reddit etc. except to me it looks like fri-ga-te, I yi yi! Clicks maracas, I see gnomes as hno-mez! Morticia, let's dance!


----------



## Cadence

Also, I suddently want poster A to make the thread titles for poster B using the material in B's posts.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Also, I suddently want poster A to make the thread titles for poster B using the material in B's posts.




How crazy is the OP when he refuses to Rank Anson Mount as the Bestest Ever Star Trek Series just because he's got Great Hair and in Jealous of Pike's Hair, Which Must be Bequeathed to All Captains?


----------



## trappedslider

i'm not passive aggressive unlike some people


----------



## Deset Gled

Sometimes it's amazing how a post can contain so much information, yet so little of it is what the author intended to share.


----------



## Hussar

Yup. Time to unsubscribe from that thread.


----------



## CleverNickName

Also the life of a Dungeon Master.


----------



## Mad_Jack

dragoner said:


> I do terribad with silent letters, like I posted a frigate on fb, reddit etc. except to me it looks like fri-ga-te, I yi yi! Clicks maracas, I see gnomes as hno-mez! Morticia, let's dance!




 Oh, you'd _hate_ Gaelic, then, lol - not only are half the letters silent but they also don't have the same sounds as in English, hehehe...   

 (the name Nimh is pronounced "Neev", fer example, and Caoimhe is "Kweeva".)


----------



## Hussar

Mad_Jack said:


> Oh, you'd _hate_ Gaelic, then, lol - not only are half the letters silent but they also don't have the same sounds as in English, hehehe...
> 
> (the name Nimh is pronounced "Neev", fer example, and Caoimhe is "Kweeva".)



I believe Gaelic was invented by someone who REALLY wanted to win at Scrabble.


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> Oh, you'd _hate_ Gaelic, then, lol - not only are half the letters silent but they also don't have the same sounds as in English, hehehe...
> 
> (the name Nimh is pronounced "Neev", fer example, and Caoimhe is "Kweeva".)



How to pronounce a word in Gaelic: Take a few letters from the beginning, then add a few letters from the end. I the word is _really_ long take a couple of random letters form the middle as well, and you're likely right.


----------



## South by Southwest

Rest in peace, Paulie. You were a better wiseguy than the real ones.


----------



## prabe

Hussar said:


> I believe Gaelic was invented by someone who REALLY wanted to win at Scrabble.



I always figured it was transliterated by someone who *hated* the English.


----------



## dragoner

You haven't lived until you have argued with Russians about the proper romanization of words. Kinda like, that's not "ah" but "oo" - "It's feminine!" There is no feminine in English ...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> Oh, you'd _hate_ Gaelic, then, lol - not only are half the letters silent but they also don't have the same sounds as in English, hehehe...
> 
> (the name Nimh is pronounced "Neev", fer example, and Caoimhe is "Kweeva".)




The Secret of NIMH is that it’s NEEV???

Nooo!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Deset Gled said:


> Sometimes it's amazing how a post can contain so much information, yet so little of it is what the author intended to share.



Most historical documents are informative primarily for the things the author wasn't trying to say. Sometimes the same applies to contemporary texts.


----------



## Ryujin

Benjamin Olson said:


> Most historical documents are informative primarily for the things the author wasn't trying to say. Sometimes the same applies to contemporary texts.



Sometimes subtext isn't as sub, as some people would think.


----------



## dragoner

Sometimes the implied stuff is on purpose as well.


----------



## Alzrius

Ryujin said:


> Sometimes subtext isn't as sub, as some people would think.



That's part of a three-pronged messaging system: there's the subliminal, the liminal, and the superliminal.


----------



## el-remmen

This is me refraining from engaging with people on these forums who seem to believe that their individual experience with 5E _must be _the universal experience and that anyone who claims to have some other experience is either lying or playing the game wrong and not as intended.


----------



## trappedslider

Doomception.








						It’s Now Possible to Play Doom Within Doom
					

Doom is the poster child of video game modding, and this one person manages to take the original and create an Inception-style amalgamation.




					gamerant.com


----------



## South by Southwest

trappedslider said:


> Doomception.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s Now Possible to Play Doom Within Doom
> 
> 
> Doom is the poster child of video game modding, and this one person manages to take the original and create an Inception-style amalgamation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gamerant.com



Oh, how wryly self-referential. Mr. Eco would surely approve (ambivalently).


----------



## Deset Gled

trappedslider said:


> Doomception.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s Now Possible to Play Doom Within Doom
> 
> 
> Doom is the poster child of video game modding, and this one person manages to take the original and create an Inception-style amalgamation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gamerant.com




Yeah, but can you play Doom on it?


----------



## Cadence

Trying to dig up things on Dungeons and Dragons, board games, and the satanic panic, and missed by a bit over a 100 years...

From the Standard in London, 29 Mar 1864:


----------



## Cadence

I got sidetracked in 1975.  Looks like board/war gaming conventions and D&D hit the media in 1975 (no panic yet) and I put a bunch of snips from the articles at:









						D&D in the 80s, Fads, and the Satanic Panic
					

Can you remember any specific shows with those panels, and which mainstream news programs might have hosted them other than the famous 60 Minutes episode?   Perhaps we're having a bit of a semantic issue here.  There are (depending on how you count) around 15,000 - 18,000 state and local law...




					www.enworld.org
				




Includes what a reporter says they overheard in an early D&D game.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 253286



Trying to figure out what acronym or word means "accidentally make something way too awesome for what was intended" and would fit in that small of a space in a sentence.


----------



## CleverNickName

Don't get me wrong, I like the Eberron Chicago-style campaign setting pizza.  I like how it really celebrates the dungeonpunk asthetic sauce, something that most other campaign settings pizzas will only use sparingly.  And the sheer volume of it means that you can truly put whatever game elements toppings you can imagine in there.  You want playable robots, goblin bards, and mad-scientists pineapple, anchovies, and ham?  Go for it, there's plenty of room!

But the problem is, it's a _casserole..._not a pizza.  A delicious casserole, yes, but it's more like a lasagna than a pizza.  And if you're craving pizza _or _lasagna, you're going to be disappointed.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like Eberron Chicago-style pizza.  I like how it really celebrates the dungeonpunk asthetic sauce, something that most other campaign settings pizzas will only use sparingly.  And the sheer volume of it means that you can truly put whatever game elements toppings you can imagine in there.  You want playable robots, goblin bards, and mad-scientists pineapple, anchovies, and ham?  Go for it, there's plenty of room!
> 
> But the problem is, it's a _casserole..._not a pizza.  A delicious casserole, yes, but it's more like a lasagna than a pizza.  And if you're craving pizza _or _lasagna, you're going to be disappointed.




Lasagna's and casseroles don't have formal crusts. The former always has noodles.  Calling it a cheese and tomato pie would at least be plausible.

I have trouble imagining anyone in Chicago putting pineapple or fish on a Pizza short of mental derangement or torture.  Ham of accompanied by enough other meats, sure.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Lasagna's and casseroles don't have crusts.  Calling it a cheese and tomato pie would at least be plausible.
> 
> I have trouble imagining anyone in Chicago putting pineapple or fish on a Pizza short of mental derangement or torture.  Ham of accompanied by enough other meats, sure.



And yet, lots of folks enjoy "pineapple" and "anchovies" in their "Chicago-style" "pizza." 

It's a metaphor, you see.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> And yet, lots of folks enjoy "pineapple" and "anchovies" in their "Chicago-style" "pizza."




Wait, they like different pizza than me when not deranged or being tortured!?!  That sounds like some fake internet conspiracy panic.



CleverNickName said:


> It's a metaphor, you see.




Is that an agent that produces agents about agenting or something?


----------



## CleverNickName

A bad metaphor is like a simile.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Lasagna's and casseroles don't have formal crusts. The former always has *noodles*.




So is lasagna really just someone in New Zealand trying to make a Chicago-style "pizza?"


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So is lasagna really just someone in New Zealand trying to make a Chicago-style "pizza?"




Making fun of pizza is fine, but mocking other folks' sacred things like Lasagna is uncalled for*!!!!

Anyway...


> Ked's "World Famous" Lasagna
> 
> 1 lb. Italian Sausage
> 1 Clove Minced Garlic
> 1 tblsp.  Basil
> 1 lb. Can Whole Tomatoes
> 18 oz. Tomato Paste
> 
> Brown the sausage (drain). Then mix in the garlic, basil, tomatoes, and paste. Make sure to break up the tomatoes as you do so.  Simmer for 30 minutes.
> 
> 6 Lasagna Noodles
> 
> Cook until almost, but not quite, done
> 
> 2 Eggs
> 1.5 cups Ricotta Cheese
> 1.5 cups Cottage Cheese
> 1/2 cup Grated Parmesan (The actual cheese, not the powdered stuff)
> 2 tblsp. Parsley Flakes
> 1/2 tsp.  Pepper
> 
> Mix Eggs, Ricotta, Cottage, and Parmesan Cheeses, Parsley, and Pepper together
> 
> 1/2 lb. Thin Sliced Mozzarella
> 
> In a two** quart baking dish, layer as follows
> 
> Half of Noodles  [Bottom] (Ripping them as needed to fit the pan)
> Half of Ricotta Mixture
> Half of Mozzarella Slices
> Half of Sauce Mixture[Top]
> Repeat
> 
> Bake for 30 minutes at 375.  Allow to sit at least 10 minutes before cutting.  Works fine (or maybe better) if you cook it the night before and refrigerate.  Will still take about 30 minutes at 375 or so to warm it.






* Except for my grandmothers Lasagna - which I think used ground beef, American cheese food product, and seemingly no spices iirc.  Why couldn't she have stuck to chicken and dumplings, cookies, and pies!?  But she was a German-American farm kid so Lasagna probably wasn't a thing for her.  Everyone has their flaws.  Her chocolate chip cookies were better than anything anyone in your family ever dreamed of.

** I'm sometimes not sure if this big enough


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Making fun of pizza is fine, but mocking other folks' sacred things like Lasagna is uncalled for*!!!!




_Hey, Snarf, what sacred things are you mocking today?_


----------



## Malmuria

It's funny how blocking just one person makes conversations on here so much more chill, even if I get confused as to why a thread is filled with mod warnings


----------



## CleverNickName

Here's my family recipe for lasagna.

SUMMERTIME LASAGNA
====================
2 oz. Maker's Mark bourbon
1 teaspoon coarse raw sugar
fresh peppermint leaves
crushed ice
cold water

Muddle the sugar and 4 large mint leaves together in an 8-oz highball glass.  Fill with crushed ice, then add the bourbon.  Top off with water, if desired (or a little extra bourbon, if that's how you roll).  Then stir slowly until the glass is well frosted.  Garnish with a sprig of mint, and serve.

Actually, that's the family recipe for a mint julep.   But I hear it's pretty much the same thing.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Here's my family recipe for lasagna.
> 
> SUMMERTIME LASAGNA
> ====================
> 2 oz. Maker's Mark bourbon
> 1 teaspoon coarse raw sugar
> fresh peppermint leaves
> crushed ice
> cold water
> 
> Muddle the sugar and 4 large mint leaves together in an 8-oz highball glass.  Fill with crushed ice, then add the bourbon.  Top off with water, if desired (or a little extra bourbon, if that's how you roll).  Then stir slowly until the glass is well frosted.  Garnish with a sprig of mint, and serve.
> 
> Actually, that's the family recipe for a mint julep.   But I hear it's pretty much the same thing.



I mean, if Lasagna means "sacred family food", seems solid!


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I mean, if Lasagna means "sacred family food", seems solid!



If someone offered me a mint julep that was "solid," I'd wonder if they'd maybe overdone it with the mint, just a little bit.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> If someone offered me a mint julep that was "solid," I'd wonder if they'd maybe overdone it with the mint, just a little bit.



Or at the very least, I'd check the serving temperature.


Dang.  Now I'm really craving "lasagna."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> If someone offered me a mint julep that was "solid," I'd wonder if they'd maybe overdone it with the mint, just a little bit.




_Snarf's Best Mint Julep_

4 oz. Widow Jane 10 year bourbon
3 oz mint simple syrup (see below)
fresh mint leaves
crushed ice
cold water

Start by preparing the mint simple syrup. Mix water, sugar, and copious amounts of chopped mint and heat in saucepan until sugar is dissolved. Strain out mint leaves. Allow to cool.

Take large glass. Fill with 4 ounces of fine bourbon. Widow Jane 10 yr is a fine choice, but Maker's Mark will do in a pinch and on a budget. Drop in a minuscule splash of cold water to release additional flavor.

Drink while looking at the mint simple syrup, glad it did not sully your precious bourbon. Occasionally hurl crushed ice at people because it's funny.

Repeat as necessary.


----------



## CleverNickName

Maker's Mark is my 'mixing bourbon,' the stuff I like to put in my mint julep, whiskey sour, or other cocktails. It has a smooth, smoky flavor, it mixes well, and it doesn't cost a fortune.

My favorite 'sipping bourbon' is Black Maple Hill.  But since it's almost impossible to find (and even harder to afford) nowadays, Angel's Envy will do in a pinch.  The only thing I mix it with is an ice cube.




 

 

 


_It continues to be a metaphor, you see.  Can you spot the Spelljammer reference in these photos?_


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Here's my family recipe for lasagna.
> 
> SUMMERTIME LASAGNA
> ====================
> 2 oz. Maker's Mark bourbon
> 1 teaspoon coarse raw sugar
> fresh peppermint leaves
> crushed ice
> cold water
> 
> Muddle the sugar and 4 large mint leaves together in an 8-oz highball glass.  Fill with crushed ice, then add the bourbon.  Top off with water, if desired (or a little extra bourbon, if that's how you roll).  Then stir slowly until the glass is well frosted.  Garnish with a sprig of mint, and serve.
> 
> Actually, that's the family recipe for a mint julep.   But I hear it's pretty much the same thing.



Reminds me about a comedy bit I heard when I was a kid. Something about the kids not getting to sleep at Christmas but not to worry, 'cause Pa always had them rum popsicles in the freezer. Wish I could find a recording of it.


----------



## prabe

If I'm just going to sip something, it'll probably be one of Barrell's products, over a large ice sphere; I can appreciate the gradual opening-up of the flavors as the liquid in the glass asymptotically approaches water.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Maker's Mark is my 'mixing bourbon,' the stuff I like to put in my mint julep, whiskey sour, or other cocktails. It has a decent, smoky flavor, it mixes well, and it doesn't cost a fortune.
> 
> My favorite 'sipping bourbon' is Black Maple Hill.  But since it's almost impossible to find (and even harder to afford) nowadays, Angel's Envy will do in a pinch.  The only thing I mix it with is an ice cube.




Two things-

1. That third bourbon pictured would go well in a John Collins. 

2. Many people argue about the best way to drink bourbon, scotch, or whisk(e)y. Some say it's on the rocks. Some say it's neat. Some say it's with a splash of water. Obviously, there is only ONE CORRECT WAY. Discuss!


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> If I'm just going to sip something, it'll probably be one of Barrell's products, over a large ice sphere; I can appreciate the gradual opening-up of the flavors as the liquid in the glass asymptotically approaches water.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Reminds me about a comedy bit I heard when I was a kid. Something about the kids not getting to sleep at Christmas but not to worry, 'cause Pa always had them rum popsicles in the freezer. Wish I could find a recording of it.




I'm guessing that a) it's Bill Cosby, and b) you don't want to find it.


----------



## CleverNickName

For those trying (struggling?) to follow this thread:

Pizza is a metaphor for D&D campaigns.
Pineapple is a metaphor for bards, gnomes, THAC0, basically any specific game element thing that is a niche acquired taste.  Often used in conjunction with the aforementioned "pizza" metaphor.
How someone prefers to drink bourbon is a metaphor for how someone prefers to play D&D.
New Zealand is a confused place, much like the American south.
We now return to your regularly-scheduled tomfoolery and shenanigans.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> For those trying (struggling?) to follow this thread:
> 
> Pizza is a metaphor for D&D campaigns.
> Pineapple is a metaphor for bards, gnomes, THAC0, basically any specific game element thing that is a niche acquired taste.  Often used in conjunction with the aforementioned "pizza" metaphor.
> How someone prefers to drink bourbon is a metaphor for how someone prefers to play D&D.
> New Zealand is a confused place, much like the American south.
> We now return to your regularly-scheduled tomfoolery and shenanigans.




I thought New Zealand was a fake place (like Canada) and bourbon was a stand-in for Pineapple, but not quite so heinous (unlike pepperoni or non-IPA beers)?


----------



## el-remmen

Today while looking through a box in the basement for toggle bolts, I found the name of my next Halfling Rogue (maybe multiclassed bard) character intead:


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm guessing that a) it's Bill Cosby, and b) you don't want to find it.



It was a Canadian comic and, to be specific, he sounded like a Newfoundlander.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Maker's Mark is my 'mixing bourbon,' the stuff I like to put in my mint julep, whiskey sour, or other cocktails. It has a smooth, smoky flavor, it mixes well, and it doesn't cost a fortune.
> 
> My favorite 'sipping bourbon' is Black Maple Hill.  But since it's almost impossible to find (and even harder to afford) nowadays, Angel's Envy will do in a pinch.  The only thing I mix it with is an ice cube.
> 
> View attachment 253338 View attachment 253340 View attachment 253342 View attachment 253341
> _It continues to be a metaphor, you see.  Can you spot the Spelljammer reference in these photos?_



I do like Angels envy but find it marked up for little reason. I miss Eagle Rare thats the best stuff. Too bad the warehouse fell into the river


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> I do like Angels envy but find it marked up for little reason. I miss Eagle Rare thats the best stuff. Too bad the warehouse fell into the river



Talking about markup:  here in the Pacific Northwest, all the hipster elitists keep raving about Pappy Van Winkle (which keeps the demand, and therefore the cost, super high).  Before the pandemic, I went to a bar called The Whiskey Library and paid $30 for a half-ounce of PVW just to see what all the fuss was about.  So I took a sip and honestly?  I don't get the appeal.  I mean, it's fine.  It's good, even.  But it's not *sixty dollars an ounce *good.

Whiskey's for drinking.  So as far as I'm concerned, if a bottle of whiskey has a price tag greater than $100, it's not a beverage--it's an I.Q. Test.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Talking about markup:  here in the Pacific Northwest, all the hipster elitists keep raving about Pappy Van Winkle (which keeps the demand, and therefore the cost, super high).  Before the pandemic, I went to a bar called The Whiskey Library and paid $30 for a half-ounce of PVW just to see what all the fuss was about.  So I took a sip and honestly?  I don't get the appeal.  I mean, it's fine.  It's good, even.  But it's not *sixty dollars an ounce *good.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, if a bottle of whiskey has a price tag greater than $100, it's not a beverage--it's an I.Q. Test.



If I could afford to drink Middleton, its all I would drink. I would save a bottle of Canadian "whisky" for people I dont like.


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Two things-
> 
> 1. That third bourbon pictured would go well in a John Collins.
> 
> 2. Many people argue about the best way to drink bourbon, scotch, or whisk(e)y. Some say it's on the rocks. Some say it's neat. Some say it's with a splash of water. Obviously, there is only ONE CORRECT WAY. Discuss!



old fashioned with muddled pineapple?


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Talking about markup:  here in the Pacific Northwest, all the hipster elitists keep raving about Pappy Van Winkle (which keeps the demand, and therefore the cost, super high).  Before the pandemic, I went to a bar called The Whiskey Library and paid $30 for a half-ounce of PVW just to see what all the fuss was about.  So I took a sip and honestly?  I don't get the appeal.  I mean, it's fine.  It's good, even.  But it's not *sixty dollars an ounce *good.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, if a bottle of whiskey has a price tag greater than $100, it's not a beverage--it's an I.Q. Test.



One of my Seattle area friends spent a year and a bit in Warrington, UK, and made several trips north while there. There was no way he was going to leave his carefully chosen stock there when he moved back, open bottles or no. With brokerage fees, crating, et al it was still well worth paying to have it all exported back to the US.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Talking about markup:  here in the Pacific Northwest, all the hipster elitists keep raving about Pappy Van Winkle (which keeps the demand, and therefore the cost, super high).  Before the pandemic, I went to a bar called The Whiskey Library and paid $30 for a half-ounce of PVW just to see what all the fuss was about.  So I took a sip and honestly?  I don't get the appeal.  I mean, it's fine.  It's good, even.  But it's not *sixty dollars an ounce *good.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, if a bottle of whiskey has a price tag greater than $100, it's not a beverage--it's an I.Q. Test.



A secret: The recipe for Maker's Mark is _very_ similar to the one for PVW.

I've had opportunities to buy tickets for various very limited whiskey releases, and I never have. I did pay graymarket/consignment prices for Westvleteren 12--and while I don't regret doing so I probably wouldn't again.

The Barrell whiskeys I mentioned above, though, are really hard for me to find around here for less than $100, and I don't feel stupid for paying that much. Different markets are different, though.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> As far as I'm concerned, if a bottle of whiskey has a price tag greater than $100, it's not a beverage--it's an I.Q. Test.




As far as I'm concerned, if a bottle of whiskey has a price tag greater than $100, it's not a beverage .... _it's a business expense_.


Q. Hey, Snarf! What liquor tastes the best?

A. Whatever you're paying for, bud.


----------



## billd91

Are we even speaking the same language?!?


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> Are we even speaking the same language?!?



Probably not.


----------



## billd91

prabe said:


> Probably not.



Shazbat!


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> Shazbat!



Nano-nano!


----------



## payn




----------



## Snarf Zagyg




----------



## billd91

Sure, you *could* blame someone for responding to you. Or... you could take responsibility for your own post on a topic and tone.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Sure, you *could* blame someone for responding to you. Or... you could take responsibility for your own post on a topic and tone.



Naaaaaawwwwww......


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> Sure, you *could* blame someone for responding to you. Or... you could take responsibility for your own post on a topic and tone.



PSA:
If you are writing something--a memo, a letter, a story, an email, anything at all--it is your responsibility as the author to make sure the reader can understand what you are trying to say.  It's on you, the author, to make sure that what you are writing is complete, concise, and correct.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> PSA:
> If you are writing something--a memo, a letter, a story, an email, anything at all--it is your responsibility as the author to make sure the reader can understand what you are trying to say.  It's on you, the author, to make sure that what you are writing is complete, concise, and correct.




Counterpoint-

Any bit of comedy that employs satire or irony in a proper and correct fashion requires that some portion of the audience be confused (or even hurt) by the comedy.

Ambiguity is not a bug, but the central feature of any type comedy that plays with or invokes satire and irony. Simply put, the possibility that a reader can misunderstand the message is necessary to the proper conveyance of the message. 

See, e.g., Linda Hutcheson, _Irony's Edge: The Theory and Politics of Irony. _


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Counterpoint-
> 
> Any bit of comedy that employs satire or irony in a proper and correct fashion requires that some portion of the audience be confused (or even hurt) by the comedy.
> 
> Ambiguity is not a bug, but the central feature of any type comedy that plays with or invokes satire and irony. Simply put, the possibility that a reader can misunderstand the message is necessary to the proper conveyance of the message.
> 
> See, e.g., Linda Hutcheson, _Irony's Edge: The Theory and Politics of Irony. _



Sure, just so long as said comedy isn't "punching down."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Sure, just so long as said comedy isn't "punching down."




I have yet to internalize the newest sheen on the old Aristotelean definition of humor.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Sure, you *could* blame someone for responding to you. Or... you could take responsibility for your own post on a topic and tone.



Your condescending shrug man is yuge.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Counterpoint-
> 
> Any bit of comedy that employs satire or irony in a proper and correct fashion requires that some portion of the audience be confused (or even hurt) by the comedy.
> 
> Ambiguity is not a bug, but the central feature of any type comedy that plays with or invokes satire and irony. Simply put, the possibility that a reader can misunderstand the message is necessary to the proper conveyance of the message.
> 
> See, e.g., Linda Hutcheson, _Irony's Edge: The Theory and Politics of Irony. _



Writing comedy is even harder.  It is still your responsibility to make sure the reader understands that what you are writing is intended to be humorous, or satire.  And now, it is also your responsibility to make sure that the reader is _also _entertained or amused by what you're writing!  The comedic author doesn't get a free pass to write vague or poorly-researched material only to blame the audience for "not getting the joke," or being "too sensitive" if the reader finds the material offensive.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Writing comedy is even harder.



Yes, it is difficult.



CleverNickName said:


> It is still your responsibility to make sure the reader understands that what you are writing is intended to be humorous, or satire.



Absolutely, positively, 100% no.



CleverNickName said:


> And now, it is also your responsibility to make sure that the reader is _also _entertained or amused by what you're writing!  The comedic author doesn't get a free pass to write vague or poorly-researched material only to blame the audience for "not getting the joke," or being "too sensitive" if they find the material offensive.




Bad comedy is bad comedy, always. But I think that this assertion (and this style of assertion) is not just incorrect, it is anathema to comedy.

Bad comedians (and bullies) have always hidden behind the "it's just a joke." But it's also just as true that the humorless scolds of society have tried to constrain comedy by telling people what is, and isn't, acceptable.


----------



## prabe

So, ambiguity is a tool in the writer's kit. It's fine to use it. If you use it, I think you need to know using it means there will be people who don't understand what you've written the same as you do, and you need to accept responsibility for being intentionally ambiguous--you don't get to blame your audience for not understanding you.

It's possible to be ironic, satiric, or any other form of ambiguous, and not be a bully.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> So, ambiguity is a tool in the writer's kit. It's fine to use it. If you use it, I think you need to know using it means there will be people who don't understand what you've written the same as you do, *and you need to accept responsibility* for being intentionally ambiguous--you don't get to blame your audience for not understanding you.




Again, no. Readers have responsibilities as well.

You know what? It sucks when you don't get something. If you were a Whig who didn't get _A Modest Proposal_, that must have sucked. If you were Reagan's campaign, and you couldn't quite parse the lyrics of _Born in the USA ... _probably embarrassing! If you re bopping along and exercising to Rage Against the Machine and didn't realize _quelle horreur _that they are a political band ... well, oops!

But demanding that the author of the text has to accept responsibility for every dumb a** out there? Yeah, no.

This is not just wrong, but a terrible idea. It infantilizes all of our discourse. 

IMO, etc.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> So, ambiguity is a tool in the writer's kit. It's fine to use it. If you use it, I think you need to know using it means there will be people who don't understand what you've written the same as you do, and you need to accept responsibility for being intentionally ambiguous--you don't get to blame your audience for not understanding you.
> 
> It's possible to be ironic, satiric, or any other form of ambiguous, and not be a bully.




So, this made me wonder about other things we take for granted.

A readability checker that uses various formulas judged your post* as being a 10th grade reading level.  Is writing at too high a reading level, especially on a sight with folks from different nations, almost gatekeeping of a sort?

* Well, two copies of it to get to the minimum number of words.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Again, no. Readers have responsibilities as well.
> 
> You know what? It sucks when you don't get something. If you were a Whig who didn't get _A Modest Proposal_, that must have sucked. If you were Reagan's campaign, and you couldn't quite parse the lyrics of _Born in the USA ... _probably embarrassing! If you re bopping along and exercising to Rage Against the Machine and didn't realize _quelle horreur _that they are a political band ... well, oops!
> 
> But demanding that the author of the text has to accept responsibility for every dumb a** out there? Yeah, no.
> 
> This is not just wrong, but a terrible idea. It infantilizes all of our discourse.
> 
> IMO, etc.



I didn't say--I don't even think I *implied*--that readers have no responsibility. I said that if you are intentionally ambiguous, *you need to own the ambiguity*. I didn't go into whatever responsibilities readers (or listeners, since you mentioned music) have--mainly because I don't feel like mocking people for not understanding one thing or another, and I didn't feel I could discuss those responsibilities without mocking those people.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Yes, it is difficult.
> 
> 
> Absolutely, positively, 100% no.
> 
> 
> 
> Bad comedy is bad comedy, always. But I think that this assertion (and this style of assertion) is not just incorrect, it is anathema to comedy.
> 
> Bad comedians (and bullies) have always hidden behind the "it's just a joke." But it's also just as true that the humorless scolds of society have tried to constrain comedy by telling people what is, and isn't, acceptable.



I don't disagree.  I'm just saying that there's a difference between "Humor is the subversion of expectation," and "I'm going surprise my reader with a joke."  I'm also saying that not every joke is going to be funny, and when that happens, the author of those jokes can't blame the audience.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> So, this made me wonder about other things we take for granted.
> 
> A readability checker that uses various formulas judged your post* as being a 10th grade reading level.  Is writing at too high a reading level, especially on a sight with folks from different nations, almost gatekeeping of a sort?
> 
> * Well, two copies of it to get to the minimum number of words.



I gotta admit, I'm curious about the how and the why. Alas, I figure most of those readability checker things are at best reluctant to explain themselves.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> So, this made me wonder about other things we take for granted.
> 
> A readability checker that uses various formulas judged your post* as being a 10th grade reading level.  Is writing at too high a reading level, especially on a sight with folks from different nations, almost gatekeeping of a sort?




......uh .........







I think at this point I should bow out. Clearly everyone is all-in on the anchovy pizza, and I'm abstaining.

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> I gotta admit, I'm curious about the how and the why. Alas, I figure most of those readability checker things are at best reluctant to explain themselves.



,
I have no idea https://readabilityformulas.com/freetests/six-readability-formulas.php

(I'm a psychometrician, but mostly modeling standard educational and psychological instruments and I've never looked at the things behind reading levels).


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ......uh .........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think at this point I should bow out. Clearly everyone is all-in on the anchovy pizza, and I'm abstaining.
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯




I don't picture changing my writing style on here even if so...  (although I do find myself editing to simpler structures when writing to non-native English speakers in other countries when i ask for genealogy help).

Is Anchovy better or worse than Tuna?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Is Anchovy better or worse than Tuna?




Worse (generally) because of the quality of the anchovies used here for mass-market pizza; it ends up combining the worst of "salty" and "fishy."

Whereas if you get tuna on pizza it's generally from a place that is trying to make good food, and while it might not be good pizza (_per se)_, it will probably taste pretty good.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Worse (generally) because of the quality of the anchovies used here for mass-market pizza; it ends up combining the worst of "salty" and "fishy."




I've heard that the anchovies here in the USA are the worst possible version available.  Apparently the anchovies you can get in Europe (Italy especially) are a completely different, and superior, dish.

EDIT:  Or was that sardines?  Now I'm not sure.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I've heard that the anchovies here in the USA are the worst possible version available.  Apparently the anchovies you can get in Europe (Italy especially) are a completely different, and superior, dish.



You can get good ones in the U.S., but like a lot of things American is usually awful.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> You can get good ones in the U.S., but like a lot of things American is usually awful.




I was just in Italy. The difference in quality in the basic food was just ... unreal. Just basic things like strawberries at the supermarket. The ones I got burst with flavor and sweetness I had forgotten that berries had.

It's crazy, how badly we've screwed up our food.


----------



## Gammadoodler

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have a confession as well.
> 
> I have never played D&D. Or any TTRPG.
> 
> I was hired two years ago to join this site as part of an astroturfing effort to drum up support for the greatest Candian band ever. Nickelback.
> 
> Wait, did I say Canadian? I meant the greatest BAND IN ALL OF HISTORY, FOREVER. It took me two years of lengthy posts about some place named Greyhawk and/or pineapples on pizza to build my "street cred," but I've finally gone full Nickelback.
> 
> #sorrynotsorry
> #Nickelback4ever



So this is how you remind me??


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Question of the week-

Corey Hart's Sunglasses at Night ... Awesome Song ... or AWESOMEST SONG?


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Question of the week-
> 
> Corey Hart's Sunglasses at Night ... Awesome Song ... or AWESOMEST SONG?



I detect a whiff of false dichotomy, here ...

I mean, you didn't *mention* the option "crappy 1980s song."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I detect a whiff of false dichotomy, here ...
> 
> I mean, you didn't *mention* the option "crappy 1980s song."




Ha! There is no such thing as a crappy 80s song!

There is only awesome horny 80s songs ...


And awesome 80s songs with killer sax solos.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ha! There is no such thing as a crappy 80s song!



Every time period has its own particular kind of crappy pop music. The 1980s were no different.

Every time period has its own particular kind of excellent pop music. The 1980s were no different.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Every time period has its own particular kind of crappy pop music. The 1980s were no different.




I mean, just because some of the videos didn't age so well ... doesn't mean they weren't awesome? Right?


Peter Cetera, you knew the power of love, right? You didn't need to be all creepy, did you?

I don't want you to misunderstand me
I just wanna say what's on my mind
No need to hit me with an attitude
Because I haven't got the time
I want you to know one thing is certain
I surely love your company
*And I won't take no if that's your answer
At least that's my philosophy*

I mean ... *THE 80s *(said exactly like _the Aristocrats*_).


*Wait, do I have to explain that to the lowest denominator? Because .. yeah, not going to. Suck it, humorless scolds.


----------



## South by Southwest

Suddenly I feel very, very old.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Wait, do I have to explain that to the lowest denominator?



Nah. I think we're communicating, in spite of my tendency toward overliteralism and your tendency toward indirectness, or subtlety, or irony. Just means I need to pay close attention reading you, and sometimes that's not enough--and most of the time when I'm not sure I don't say anything.


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> Suddenly I feel very, very old.



Suddenly?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> Suddenly I feel very, very old.




Hey, just because you feel old doesn't mean you aren't still young. Benny Nardones had a song about this..



_listening ..... _Oh ... oh.... oh .... hell no.
WHAT DID THEY PUT IN MY BRAIN WHEN I WAS GROWING UP?????


----------



## Gradine

Say what you will about Chicago Style pizza, but at least it isn't a massive piece of cardboard slathered in grease


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> Suddenly?



It comes in waves.


----------



## CleverNickName

Oh you want 80s retro synth pop, do you?
All hairspray and horniness, you say?
You've come to the right place.


----------



## South by Southwest

Okay, I can do this:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Oh you want 80s retro synth pop, do you?
> All hairspray and horniness, you say?
> You've come to the right place.




YA BASIC!

May I present ...

The Tubes (Satanic Panic? How about ... let's get it on ...)


Frankie Goes to Hollywood ... SERIOUSLY NSFW..... _wait, there were the gayz in the 80s?_


Duran Duran talking 'bout girls on film .. wait, wut? OH NOES!


Or even Laura Branigan talking about the party circuit? CIRCUIT?


----------



## J.Quondam

80s sax solos  have long reminded me of sweaty thighs sliding over vinyl upholstery. Whether that's because of what they evoke or what they sound like, I leave as an exercise for the reader.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Nah. I think we're communicating, in spite of my tendency toward overliteralism and your tendency toward indirectness, or subtlety, or irony. Just means I need to pay close attention reading you, and sometimes that's not enough--and most of the time when I'm not sure I don't say anything.




Most of the time my references are so oblique that people beg me to use the nominative case.


----------



## payn

/bangs broom stick on the wall and ceiling


----------



## South by Southwest

So now I'm not sure how I'm going to get off of this 80s kick you guys just put me on. Idunno--maybe a coupl'a episodes of _Miami Vice_ will remind me it wasn't all good. Or some _Poison_.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> So now I'm not sure how I'm going to get off of this 80s kick you guys just put me on. Idunno--maybe a coupl'a episodes of _Miami Vice_ will remind me it wasn't all good. Or some _Poison_.




I'm not your fool. I'm ... NOBODY'S FOOL.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Your condescending shrug man is yuge.



He is con-ascending... in size.
It was weird. I put the statement in a more direct response, decided to decontextualize it by putting it here via cut and paste. And that emoji grew like Alice in effing Wonderland.


----------



## billd91

I think there are people on here who don’t read *their own* posts.


----------



## trappedslider

billd91 said:


> I think there are people on here who don’t read *their own* posts.



I think there are people on here who post what could have just been a blog post,since the op is done they stop interacting with the thread.


----------



## el-remmen

I really miss saxophone solos in rock and pop music.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> So now I'm not sure how I'm going to get off of this 80s kick you guys just put me on. Idunno--maybe a coupl'a episodes of _Miami Vice_ will remind me it wasn't all good. Or some _Poison_.



RATT usually does the trick.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> I really miss saxophone solos in rock and pop music.



Absolutely.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I really miss saxophone solos in rock and pop music.



Get yo fill.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> RATT usually does the trick.



I'm not even kidding about this: I had a friend in HS who was way, _way_ into that band. He was himself a musician and a pretty good one.

I never understood it.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> I'm not even kidding about this: I had a friend in HS who was way, _way_ into that band. He was himself a musician and a pretty good one.
> 
> I never understood it.



Maybe its because they knew how to lay it down?


----------



## el-remmen

South by Southwest said:


> I never understood it.




There's no accounting for taste. I mean, some people probably even like @Snarf Zagyg's posts.


----------



## el-remmen




----------



## South by Southwest

el-remmen said:


> There's no accounting for taste. *I mean, some people probably even like* @Snarf Zagyg*'s posts.*



Reading one right now. Lovin' it.


----------



## Cadence

"I completely get the creamy vs. chunky peanut butter debate and respect both choices.  But WTF is wrong with the creamy folks, they get bent out of shape when you ask what they want and then serve them creamy with chunks!?!?  It's creamy, isn't it? But with bonus chunks!"


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> "I completely get the creamy vs. chunky peanut butter debate and respect both choices.  But WTF is wrong with the creamy folks, they get bent out of shape when you ask what they want and then serve them creamy with chunks!?!?  It's creamy, isn't it? But with bonus chunks!"



Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you dont. Oh, should I have not got us started on coconut?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you dont. Oh, should I have not got us started on coconut?




mmmm.... coconut.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> mmmm.... coconut.



A great M&M flavor.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I really miss saxophone solos in rock and pop music.




Sax?

The real hotness is TRUMPETS.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sax?
> 
> The real hotness is TRUMPETS.



Still nothing beats seeing Ochestral Maneouvres in the Dark at a little bandshell, on the shores of Lake Ontario, and having the curtain go up to reveal a 20-odd piece string orchestra backing them up, mid song.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Still nothing beats seeing Ochestral Maneouvres in the Dark at a little bandshell, on the shores of Lake Ontario, and having the curtain go up to reveal a 20-odd piece string orchestra backing them up, mid song.




Nothing?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Nothing?



No, nothing. Imagine this song playing and then, when you expect synth "strings", instead the curtain goes up and the whole place if filled with orchestral music.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> No, nothing. Imagine this song playing and then, when you expect synth "strings", instead the curtain goes up and the whole place if filled with orchestral music.




Naw.

I'm hornier for horns.


----------



## prabe

You--whoever you are--exhumed a *twenty year old* thread about *alignment*?

Be you, I guess ...


----------



## CleverNickName

Feelin' funky today, so I'm leaning into it.

Ya know, my neighbors listen to excellent music.  Whether they want to or not.


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> You--whoever you are--exhumed a *twenty year old* thread about *alignment*?
> 
> Be you, I guess ...



Look, I don't care about how you do alignment in your game, but you _have _to use alignment languages! It really, _really _bothers me when people don't use them -- they're playing the game *wrong*, and, more importantly, not how Gary intended it to be played.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Look, I don't care about how you do alignment in your game, but you _have _to use alignment languages! It really, _really _bothers me when people don't use them -- they're playing the game *wrong*, and, more importantly, not how Gary intended it to be played.




That's why I only played Assassins in 1e.

Alignment languages were the original Pokemon, and I had to get 'em all!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's why I only played Assassins in 1e.
> 
> Alignment languages were the original Pokemon, and I had to get 'em all!



Chaotic Neutral and roll an 8-sided to see how you'll react to a given situation?


----------



## dragoner

Someone posted this as a review of _Solis People of the Sun_ on dtrpg.


----------



## dragoner




----------



## RealAlHazred

dragoner said:


>



It's true! Ernest from Wisconsin had a promising career in insurance sales, but threw it all way for games. David from Minnesota was a talented computer programmer, but invested his energy and time in games instead. The "hobby" eats people and spits them out! You need to join my group *MAADDD*, _Mildly Annoyed About Dungeons & Dragons and Diplomacy_! We're taking a stand on this important issue, and bringing it all the way to the Supreme Court!


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


>





			https://media.giphy.com/media/LBcJLsudgMPnasmkNM/giphy-downsized-large.gif


----------



## dragoner

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> It's true! Ernest from Wisconsin had a promising career in insurance sales, but threw it all way for games. David from Minnesota was a talented computer programmer, but invested his energy and time in games instead. The "hobby" eats people and spits them out! You need to join my group *MAADDD*, _Mildly Annoyed About Dungeons & Dragons and Diplomacy_! We're taking a stand on this important issue, and bringing it all the way to the Supreme Court!



This is where we play the metallica no? Though I think it is a little funny, when seeing how much arguing about D&D goes on, and thinking "where does one come up with this ... ?"


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> This is where we play the metallica no? Though I think it is a little funny, when seeing how much arguing about D&D goes on, and thinking "where does one come up with this ... ?"



Actually, its where we play Jason Isbell.


----------



## dragoner

As an aside, I play and enjoy 5e, maybe not have all the books, except have a bunch.


----------



## payn

Looks like the tough guy came around to show us all how to have rightgoodfun.


----------



## Cadence

"Pizza can have Tuna.  One style of Pizza is commonly described as a casserole, and also as Lasagna (which is a thing with noodles).  So it's really hard to understand how some people can't see that  Pizza and Tuna Casserole are pretty much the same thing!"


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Naw.
> 
> I'm hornier for horns.




Coming to town this weekend...


----------



## payn

The Saxophone is a filthy instrument. I only enjoy it in Sandman's band Morphine, but then, its supposed to be filthy in that music.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> The Saxophone is a filthy instrument. I only enjoy it in Sandman's band Morphine, but then, its supposed to be filthy in that music.



It feels sad that the only three saxophonists that come immediately to my mind (although not necessarily by name) are Cappello (I Still Believe from Lost Boys) , Ravenscroft (Baker Street), and  Zoot (Muppets).  Googling famous/best Saxophonists and Songs with Saxophone, there are a bunch I had definitely heard of/heard before, but they aren't easily findable in my brain.

Edit: I guess Bleeding Gums Murphy and Lisa Simpson would have been 4 and 5 :-/


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> It feels sad that the only three saxophonists that come immediately to my mind (although not necessarily by name) are Cappello (I Still Believe from Lost Boys) , Ravenscroft (Baker Street), and  Zoot (Muppets).  Googling famous/best Saxophonists and Songs with Saxophone, there are a bunch I had definitely heard of/heard before, but they aren't easily findable in my brain.
> 
> Edit: I guess Bleeding Gums Murphy and Lisa Simpson would have been 4 and 5 :-/



Clarence Clemons:



Grover Washington Jr.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Clarence Clemons:
> 
> 
> 
> Grover Washington Jr.




Once I started them up I definitely remembered them!

I wonder what makes some things be at the top of the brain, and others require more of a push to bubble up?


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> It feels sad that the only three saxophonists that come immediately to my mind (although not necessarily by name) are Cappello (I Still Believe from Lost Boys) , Ravenscroft (Baker Street), and  Zoot (Muppets).  Googling famous/best Saxophonists and Songs with Saxophone, there are a bunch I had definitely heard of/heard before, but they aren't easily findable in my brain.
> 
> Edit: I guess Bleeding Gums Murphy and Lisa Simpson would have been 4 and 5 :-/








90s babe. Dutch. Never paid much attention to her, but she was pretty popular for a while.


----------



## payn

So filthy in here all of a sudden...

I think we need more Tuba love. I mean, its hard to imagine a tuba solo, its always the first instrument to go when breaking a big brass band down to a smaller group. Thats why I got some love for the Sons of Kemet.


----------



## Cadence

My other half and I did recently see Lou Marini touring with James Taylor (just a few days after we introduced my son to the Blues Brothers).   Maybe my brain just needs a vacation!


----------



## RealAlHazred




----------



## prabe

That's an interesting way to think about that, but I bet people are going to prefer to argue with/about what they know than engage with different thought.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Once I started them up I definitely remembered them!
> 
> I wonder what makes some things be at the top of the brain, and others require more of a push to bubble up?



Just the way that memory works, I guess. I often remark that I have a weird card file type memory and that someone dumped the cards all over the floor. I don't remember things until I have to pick them up.

Also, Paul Desmond:


_EDIT_ - Tried my hand as clarinet and alto sax, when I was a kid, because I liked the sound they contributed to music. I sucked.


----------



## Cadence

"And further, pizzas can be made on French bread or pita.  Both pita and French bread with toppings can be an opened face sandwich.  The Croissant is also a bread made by the French.  So, by comparing them to Pizza, we see that Tuna Casserole and Croissants are essentially identical in the important aspects. ...  I'll take your silence and mouth hanging open as a sign that you either finally agree or are hungry."


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> "And further, pizzas can be made on French bread or pita.  Both pita and French bread with toppings can be an opened face sandwich.  The Croissant is also a bread made by the French.  So, by comparing them to Pizza, we see that Tuna Casserole and Croissants are essentially identical in the important aspects. ...  I'll take your silence and mouth hanging open as a sign that you either finally agree or are hungry."


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


>




"Tuna Casserole <-> Casserole with Noodles and Fish <-> Casserole with Fish <-> Chicago Style Pizza with Fish <-> Pizza with Fish <-> Pizza <-> French Bread Pizza <-> French Bread <-> Bready French Pastry <-> Croissant.

Surely anyone with experience in a wide variety of foods will agree with each of these equivalences."


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> "Tuna Casserole <-> Casserole with Noodles and Fish <-> Casserole with Fish <-> Chicago Style Pizza with Fish <-> Pizza with Fish <-> Pizza <-> French Bread Pizza <-> French Bread <-> Bready French Pastry <-> Croissant.
> 
> Surely anyone with experience in a wide variety of foods will agree with each of these equivalences."


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


>




Assuming the "you" is you, I think you finally understand completely!  Very good!!!


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Assuming the "you" is you, I think you finally understand completely!  Very good!!!



I think the word in question is any word in your post ...


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


>



Fillllllthy.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> I think the word in question is any word in your post ...




Ok, let's try again.  I'll try this time with why Julia Child cookbooks are Space Opera...


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> "And further, pizzas can be made on French bread or pita.  Both pita and French bread with toppings can be an opened face sandwich.  The Croissant is also a bread made by the French.  So, by comparing them to Pizza, we see that Tuna Casserole and Croissants are essentially identical in the important aspects. ...  I'll take your silence and mouth hanging open as a sign that you either finally agree or are hungry."



My folks decided to get creative and try to  make pizza on pita the other day.
That experiment did _not_ end well.


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> My folks decided to get creative and try to  make pizza on pita the other day.
> That experiment did _not_ end well.




Our favorite local Greek/Italian restaurant uses them for their kids menu pizza and they seem ok.  What went wrong?


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> My folks decided to get creative and try to  make pizza on pita the other day.
> That experiment did _not_ end well.



Worked for me. As did tortillas. As did English Muffins. As did bagels.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Our favorite local Greek/Italian restaurant uses them for their kids menu pizza and they seem ok.  What went wrong?



Curious too. A Mediterranean shop in town here makes fabulous pita pizzas.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> Our favorite local Greek/Italian restaurant uses them for their kids menu pizza and they seem ok.  What went wrong?



Not too sure what the problem, I wasn't in the kitchen at the time and I'm not an experienced pizzateer myself. I'm guessing it's down to oven temperature, or maybe a misapplication of sauce or the relatively wet ingredients (the veggies) used? Whatever the problem, the pizzas came out damp and gummy.

(And correction: it wasn't pita, it was naan.)


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> Not too sure what the problem, I wasn't in the kitchen at the time and I'm not an experienced pizzateer myself. I'm guessing it's down to oven temperature, or maybe a misapplication of sauce or the relatively wet ingredients (the veggies) used? Whatever the problem, the pizzas came out damp and gummy.
> 
> (And correction: it wasn't pita, it was naan.)




I confess to having to look up what naan was (although I've apparently had it before after checking).

One site recommends baking the bread a bit before adding the toppings.








						How To Make Naan Bread Pizza + 3 Ways to Top It! - Graciously Nourished
					

Naan bread pizza makes homemade pizza nights easy and with 3 different ways to top it, everyone in the house will be happy!




					graciouslynourished.com


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I confess to having to look up what naan was (although I've apparently had it before after checking).
> 
> One site recommends baking the bread a bit before adding the toppings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How To Make Naan Bread Pizza + 3 Ways to Top It! - Graciously Nourished
> 
> 
> Naan bread pizza makes homemade pizza nights easy and with 3 different ways to top it, everyone in the house will be happy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graciouslynourished.com



Yeap, there is a trick to naan pizza crust. A lot of stores sell excellent flatbread ready naan for this.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> I confess to having to look up what naan was (although I've apparently had it before after checking).
> 
> One site recommends baking the bread a bit before adding the toppings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How To Make Naan Bread Pizza + 3 Ways to Top It! - Graciously Nourished
> 
> 
> Naan bread pizza makes homemade pizza nights easy and with 3 different ways to top it, everyone in the house will be happy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graciouslynourished.com



Oh, that's probably exactly it.
But honestly I think the _real_ issue is that my folks haven't still haven't really figured out they can look up basically _anything_ on the internet, and get it more or less right the first time, no "experimenting" necessary.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Oh, that's probably exactly it.
> But honestly I think the _real_ issue is that my folks haven't still haven't really figured out they can look up basically _anything_ on the internet, and get it more or less right the first time, no "experimenting" necessary.



What you can find on the internet is something that worked for someone else, to their tastes, with their equipment. It'll _work_, probably, but you'll probably need to figure out how to make it right for your tastes, with your equipment.

That is, of course, not at all the same as botching a recipe as a learning experience.


----------



## South by Southwest

J.Quondam said:


> My folks decided to get creative and try to  make pizza on pita the other day.
> That experiment did _not_ end well.



Yeah. we tried that once with chapati when I was living in India. It, um...no.


----------



## J.Quondam

prabe said:


> What you can find on the internet is something that worked for someone else, to their tastes, with their equipment. It'll _work_, probably, but you'll probably need to figure out how to make it right for your tastes, with your equipment.
> 
> That is, of course, not at all the same as botching a recipe as a learning experience.



Yeah. Googling a how-to and (this is important!) _checking a variety of sources_ can avoid a lot of missteps. Probably won't come out exactly right or easily the first time, but it's likely to be closer to right than coming at it with no idea at all. Or worse, with some wrong preconceived notions.



> _I once heard that steppe nomads used to make yogurt by putting milk in a leather skin and riding around for days! Therefore, I shall make yogurt by filling a naugahyde bolster cover with milk and hanging it from the ceiling fan in the sunroom while we go on a ten-day vacation.*_​





* Note to future internetters: Just because this statement is on the internet, doesn't mean it's a good idea to try!


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Not too sure what the problem, I wasn't in the kitchen at the time and I'm not an experienced pizzateer myself. I'm guessing it's down to oven temperature, or maybe a misapplication of sauce or the relatively wet ingredients (the veggies) used? Whatever the problem, the pizzas came out damp and gummy.
> 
> (And correction: it wasn't pita, it was naan.)



Yes, you would want to pre-cook (grill/bake/fry) the toppings beforehand, in order to reduce the water content. Also, pineapple is not recommended due to the high liquid content.


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> It feels sad that the only three saxophonists that come immediately to my mind (although not necessarily by name) are Cappello (I Still Believe from Lost Boys) , Ravenscroft (Baker Street), and  Zoot (Muppets).  Googling famous/best Saxophonists and Songs with Saxophone, there are a bunch I had definitely heard of/heard before, but they aren't easily findable in my brain.
> 
> Edit: I guess Bleeding Gums Murphy and Lisa Simpson would have been 4 and 5 :-/



How about Junior Walker?


----------



## Cadence

Mannahnin said:


> How about Junior Walker?



Foreigner Records was one of the cassettes that I played a lot during a chunk of the 80s!


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> Foreigner Records was one of the cassettes that I played a lot during a chunk of the 80s!



Junior Walker's sax work on that song is pretty epic.


----------



## CleverNickName

Me, commenting on the prevalence of elf ancestry options.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Me, commenting on the prevalence of elf ancestry options.
> 
> View attachment 253648



And once you realize a tostada is a flat Mexican  pizza, they're all also tuna casserole and croissants (as explained upthread).

They're also all hard for people  to eat through rubber masks!


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Me, commenting on the prevalence of elf ancestry options.
> 
> View attachment 253648



Taco Bell - Six different ingredients, in 57 different formats.


----------



## Cadence

So, it feels like the key to creating an inclusive D&D 5.5 is to include all the races and classes from past editions that I liked, and not keep the ones from the ones I didn't like?


----------



## Cadence

Imagine if they had just called it "Dawnwar and Dragonborn" instead ...  ;-)


----------



## trappedslider

I need this for cuddles
s


----------



## el-remmen

I want to create a forum just for arguing against the findings of books you haven't read. . . oh wait, that's potentially any forum.


----------



## dragoner

It either is or isn't, not like being a little bit pregnant.


----------



## el-remmen

Sometimes I get @prabe and @payn confused.


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes I get @prabe and @payn confused.



What'd one of us do?


----------



## el-remmen

prabe said:


> What'd one of us do?




Nothing. . ..  _this time_.

But _I_ spent an unreasonable amount of time trying to figure out how you reacted to one of my posts twice, until I realized you hadn't.


----------



## el-remmen

Really, it is anyone with a short name starting with "P" because we can throw @pogre into my occasional confusion mix too.

Maybe I am just old.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Really, it is anyone with a short name starting with "P" because we can throw @pogre into my occasional confusion mix too.
> 
> Maybe I am just old.



I tend to use avatars to differentiate. So, the folks who change them frequently throw me for a loop.


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes I get @prabe and @payn confused.



I wonder if each sees the other in the mirror?


----------



## Cadence

Is there a way to write up pizza maker traits so that if a member of that school of pizza making repeats something ad nauseum to a customer that the customer is more likely to just give up and order the ed pizza being pushed instead of what they really want? Or is that indistinguishable from anyone having a higher CHR and persuasion?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Is there a way to write up a D&D racial trait so that if a member of that race repeats something ad nauseum that the listeners are more likely to just give up and agree to make it stop? Or is that indistinguishable from anyone having a higher CHR and persuasion?



Its called a Nilbog.


----------



## Cadence

I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding EN-etiquette.

Say person A is interacting with people B and C about point X, but the posts of B and C haven't really crossed. Further, say person A has agreed on something  with person B.   Is it true that person A should act like none of their interactions with B ever happened corresponding with C, and they should make person C attempt to relitigate the same thing?

For example:

A: All uses of pineapple are bad

BtoA:  What about shish-ka-bobs?

CtoA: All the time always?

AtoB: Ok, that's one exception

AtoC: Yes, all the time always, prove me wrong

<insert B being flabbergasted to this and each of the following>

CtoA: How about pizza or tacos

AtoC: Yuck!  No reasonable person thinks that.  Try again.

CtoA: You can't mean that!?!?  What about on ham.

<go up to the Yuck again, and have C say anything else except shish-ka-bobs>


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding EN-etiquette.
> 
> Say person A is interacting with people B and C about point X, but the posts of B and C haven't really crossed. Further, say person A has agreed on something  with person B.   Is it true that person A should act like none of their interactions with B ever happened corresponding with C, and they should make person C attempt to relitigate the same thing?
> 
> For example:
> 
> A: All uses of pineapple are bad
> 
> BtoA:  What about shish-ka-bobs?
> 
> CtoA: All the time always?
> 
> AtoB: Ok, that's one exception
> 
> AtoC: Yes, all the time always, prove me wrong
> 
> <insert B being flabbergasted to this and each of the following>
> 
> CtoA: How about pizza or tacos
> 
> AtoC: Yuck!  No reasonable person thinks that.  Try again.
> 
> CtoA: You can't mean that!?!?  What about on ham.
> 
> <go up to the Yuck again, and have C say anything else except shish-ka-bobs>



I really think this just comes down to your feelings about casserole.


----------



## Cadence

That really needs a colon.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> That really needs a colon.



Most foods usually involve a colon at some point.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ah man, are we really going to restart the Libation Wars?  Start arguing again about which whiskey is the One True Booze?

Surely we can all agree that whiskey is awesome in all its wonderful flavors and origins?  There's plenty of room at this table for the peaty, aged, single-malt scotches....the caramel-toffee-toasty bourbons...the pungent and smoky ryes...the blended whiskeys from Canada...even Hibiki or Akashi has its place.   Splash of soda with that?  Maybe a bit of water?  A rock or two?  It's _all good_, baby.

Why do you care so much about what the folks at the other table are sipping, anyway?


----------



## dragoner

I bought the mystery pineapple at walmart _the machine did not recognize it _said to call a human.


----------



## prabe

dragoner said:


> I bought the mystery pineapple at walmart _the machine did not recognize it _said to call a human.



Mystery Pineapple is the name of my next band.


----------



## J.Quondam

dragoner said:


> I bought the mystery pineapple at walmart _the machine did not recognize it _said to call a human.



Those self-scan kiosks would be a lot more interesting if they had a glass dome up top and flappy arms and cried out "Danger Will Robinson!" whenever they got confused by produce.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Those self-scan kiosks would be a lot more interesting if they had a glass dome up top and flappy arms and cried out "Danger Will Robinson!" whenever they got confused by produce.


----------



## trappedslider

I have come to the conclusion that when it comes to mods and how they respond is based entirely on who gets reported and what that person does in other parts of a forum.

For example, say a major gaming company's forum has an off-topic section, and Person A post a long post about video games but has also contributed a lot to the main area of the companies forum, Person B then posts the same thing as A but a mod comes along and says that's more of a post for a blog.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I have come to the conclusion that when it comes to mods and how they respond is based entirely on who gets reported and what that person does in other parts of a forum.
> 
> For example, say a major gaming company's forum has an off-topic section, and Person A post a long post about video games but has also contributed a lot to the main area of the companies forum, Person B then posts the same thing as A but a mod comes along and says that's more of a post for a blog.



When people post comments like this, where I'm a mod, I usually truck out a little anecdote:
_
A man was speeding down the highway and felt secure due to the fact that most of the cars on the road were also travelling at the same speed. However, as he and the other cars passed a speed trap, the man was nailed by an infrared speed detector and was eventually pulled over by a policeman. The cop then handed the man a citation, received his signature, and proceeded to walk away but was stopped by a question.

The man asked the officer why he was the only one that got a ticket even though many other cars were going as fast as he was.

The cop replied by asking if the man had ever gone fishing, and in response, the man said he had gone fishing in the past. The officer then smiled and added:

"Did you ever catch them all?"_


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> When people post comments like this, where I'm a mod, I usually truck out a little anecdote:



How would you respond if I said "I also reported Person A's post? which I have done.

EDIT: I also suspect that Person A is also the mod


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> How would you respond if I said "I also reported Person A's post? which I have done.
> 
> EDIT: I also suspect that Person A is also the mod



I'd say that reporting it was the right thing to do and can't speak to the rest.


----------



## Cadence

I assume some of you have found some regular posters who essentially never say anything you find worth reading on any thread.  If you've blocked them, how strange is it to read threads they're participating in?  Is the time saved not having to read or imagine responses worth the hassle of trying to follow what's happening?


----------



## Not a Hobbit

Ryujin said:


> _The man asked the officer why he was the only one that got a ticket even though many other cars were going as fast as he was._



"Well you see, those cars are driven by friends of mine, and I like them, because we all hang out, and they always laugh at my jokes, and they never question what I say, because they understand that I'm always right, because I'm a police officer. And since I view the laws more as guidelines, and there is no real oversight to my power, I can do whatever I want."


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


>



Upgrades:


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> I assume some of you have found some regular posters who essentially never say anything you find worth reading on any thread.  If you've blocked them, how strange is it to read threads they're participating in?  *Is the time saved not having to read or imagine responses worth the hassle of trying to follow what's happening?*



I've wondered about that, as it seems like it'd become an issue pretty quickly.


----------



## Mannahnin

It can be a little annoying.  I kind of miss seeing the quotes of them in an un-blocked poster's reply, when the software auto-screened out the quoted content but gave me the option to click on and reveal it.  That made it easier to follow the conversation, and let me choose whether I wanted to get an update, to help decide whether I still felt like the blocked person was worth keeping blocked.


----------



## dragoner

Blocking is a great way to filter the info, and one can go back through and unblock as well, plus using firefox, a private window is a click away, to see the site as if one wasn't logged in.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I assume some of you have found some regular posters who essentially never say anything you find worth reading on any thread.  If you've blocked them, how strange is it to read threads they're participating in?  Is the time saved not having to read or imagine responses worth the hassle of trying to follow what's happening?




When it comes to block/ignore, I find it's more about me than other people. I never block because someone is inessential ... I just scroll past them. 

On the other hand, I will block if I find that there is a poster that consistently angers my blood. It doesn't mean that the other poster is in the wrong- sometimes it is them, sometimes it is me, and sometimes it is just an unfortunate combination of them + me; in all cases ignore provides me a time-out and a cooling-off period. The ignore feature, for me, isn't about posts and posters that don't contribute ... it's more about posts or posters that either (a) respond to me in ways I find unproductive, or (b) write things that make me want to respond in ways that are unproductive.*

Normally, I go back and "un"-ignore after a little while. More often than not, if I ignored the person because of something _truly_ heinous, they've already been site-blocked by that point. OTOH, I can be very goldfish-like and I find that whatever issue originally got me all hot and bothered has dissipated by the time I unignore them. 



*In fairness, all of my posts are unproductive. So ... there's that.


----------



## Cadence

Not to anything in this thread...

"You must be fun at parties."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Not to this anything in this thread...
> 
> "You must be fun at parties."




Never chase the party, let the party come to you.


----------



## payn

Doing our yearly DCC tournament test before gencon tomorrow. This year has a new spin, its a funnel! Apparently, you can find and save additional zero level characters in the dungeon as you delve. Cant wait!


----------



## el-remmen

Ever start reading a post and have a growing fear of what the responses to it will be (mostly because you know _exactly what they will be_) so you just close it out and find something else to read instead?


----------



## South by Southwest

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Never chase the party, let the party come to you.


----------



## Mannahnin

South by Southwest said:


>



_"I'm like a chocoholic, but for booze!" 
-Snarfs MacKenzie, the Original Party Aberration_


----------



## payn

Ah, its railroad season again. Ok then, half of you line up over there...


----------



## prabe

Ever pop into a thread and regret doing so after reading the first sentence of the OP?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> _"I'm like a chocoholic, but for booze!"
> -Snarfs MacKenzie, the Original Party Aberration_




_I have a cocaine problem; two nostrils, and only one straw. _
-Mama Snarf, explaining why she's no longer allowed to attend Little League games.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Ever pop into a thread and regret doing so after reading the first sentence of the OP?


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _I have a cocaine problem; two nostrils, and only one straw. _
> -Mama Snarf, explaining why she's no longer allowed to attend Little League games.



I read that at first as Mama Smurf (no reading glasses with me), and it briefly explained so much.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Ah, its railroad season again. Ok then, half of you line up over there...



_"Quantum encounter."_ I cannot read that term without giggling.


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> _"Quantum encounter."_ I cannot read that term without giggling.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Ah, its railroad season again. Ok then, half of you line up over there...






prabe said:


> Ever pop into a thread and regret doing so after reading the first sentence of the OP?




Look, didn't you guys read my previous post? I can imagine the entire shape, size, and tone of that thread. . . it is the stuff of nightmares, banal, repetitive, useless nightmares. . .


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> Look, didn't you guys read my previous post? I can imagine the entire shape, size, and tone of that thread. . . it is the stuff of nightmares, banal, repetitive, useless nightmares. . .



 If TV hasn't lied to me <insert spoiler>.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Look, didn't you guys read my previous post? I can imagine the entire shape, size, and tone of that thread. . . it is the stuff of nightmares, banal, repetitive, useless nightmares. . .




Possible Thread Starting Topic:

All Players Want to be on Railroads, DMs Just Need to be Better Conductors


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Possible Thread Starting Topic:
> 
> All Players Want to be on Railroads, DMs Just Need to be Better Conductors




You know, that Catra avatar does a lot of the work of keeping you unblocked.


----------



## Cadence

Again, not this thread.

"Damn!"  (exclamation of approval)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> You know, that Catra avatar does a lot of the work of keeping you unblocked.




Hey now! You have no idea how Catra feels about sandboxes!


Oh ... wait .... I think I just stumbled into the worst Garfield joke ever.


----------



## South by Southwest

el-remmen said:


> You know, that Catra avatar does a lot of the work of keeping you unblocked.



I always liked the mega-trippy Mad Hatter avatar. That thing marched right up to you and announced, "Are you _sure_ you know I'm not just having you on?"


----------



## CleverNickName

I wonder what my avatar says about me...


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I wonder what my avatar says about me...



That you have a clever nickname?


----------



## CleverNickName

...at the very least, it probably oversells my dancing skills.


----------



## South by Southwest

CleverNickName said:


> I wonder what my avatar says about me...



Serene Yogic Flying Cat.

Or maybe just, "Kitty Yoda."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> I always liked the mega-trippy Mad Hatter avatar. That thing marched right up to you and announced, "Are you _sure_ you know I'm not just having you on?"




We all have obligations to the past.


----------



## payn

I want a Goblin to kill Drizzzzt now.


----------



## dragoner

I think it is funny when two different people have the same pfp


----------



## Hussar

Pfp? What is that?

Personally I just love it when people ignore clear declarations and instead insist on ascribing motives. Makes for such productive conversation.


----------



## Cadence

Hussar said:


> Personally I just love it when people ignore clear declarations and instead insist on ascribing motives. Makes for such productive conversation.




It wonder if politicians and pundits on social media and 24 hour news cycles have trained a lot of us to do that.

PolOrPund A says they're not really trying to get X1, but X2 instead.
PolOrPund A does and says everything someone working for X1 would do except say they're working for X1.
Either X1 is achieved and PolOrPund declares victory (even though they wanted X2), or X2 is achieved and PolOrPund A immediately begins to work for X1.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> ...at the very least, it probably oversells my dancing skills.



@CleverNickName stumbled!


----------



## dragoner

Hussar said:


> Pfp? What is that?



profile pic


----------



## prabe

I don't think I've ever hit the "unwatch" button *immediately* after posting before.


----------



## el-remmen

Here we go again, kids!


----------



## South by Southwest

el-remmen said:


> Here we go again, kids!



It must be seasonal, no?


----------



## J.Quondam

Sometimes I read some threads and think, "Thank god most D&D gamers don't frequent D&D forums."


----------



## Cadence

Ooh, ooh, I have that long too, so we do months next?  (Quickly steps aside for those with even more years.)


----------



## Mad_Jack

dragoner said:


> I think it is funny when two different people have the same pfp




 I actually accidentally discovered someone else on a forum I never went to (it was some kind of anime or cartoon forum) was using a slightly altered version of my avatar pic when it came up in search results while googling some random thing I can't remember. When I asked him to stop using this pic (because I took the original photograph it comes from), he actually had the utter gall to _fight me_ on it, claiming it was his...  
He even kept arguing after I linked to posts on forums and other places from nearly ten years before the incident with this pic on them, when he wasn't able to produce a link to a post more than a year old. He couldn't even produce an unaltered version of the original pic. Even though pretty much everyone on the forum including the mods had agreed he was busted and completely full of crap, he just kept doubling down on his BS until I posted a new pic of the hat and skull with a slightly rude message on a 3x5 card (which he accused me of photoshopping, lol) and the mods finally forcefully removed his profile pic...


----------



## dragoner

Mad_Jack said:


> I actually accidentally discovered someone else on a forum I never went to (it was some kind of anime or cartoon forum) was using a slightly altered version of my avatar pic when it came up in search results while googling some random thing I can't remember. When I asked him to stop using this pic (because I took the original photograph it comes from), he actually had the utter gall to _fight me_ on it, claiming it was his...
> He even kept arguing after I linked to posts on forums and other places from nearly ten years before the incident with this pic on them, when he wasn't able to produce a link to a post more than a year old. He couldn't even produce an unaltered version of the original pic. Even though pretty much everyone on the forum including the mods had agreed he was busted and completely full of crap, he just kept doubling down on his BS until I posted a new pic of the hat and skull with a slightly rude message on a 3x5 card (which he accused me of photoshopping, lol) and the mods finally forcefully removed his profile pic...



Wow! That is crazy. I think if I were told by a pics owner to stop using it, I would in a second.


----------



## Mad_Jack

<--  This is actually my driver's license pic as well...


----------



## Cadence

I wonder if I'd have an easier time believing the pizza makers who say they are able to spontaneously create new pizza that is only based on their current customer, with no lingering effects of whatever was already in their mind or on previous menus, if they were also able to reply to the current Yelp review they've gotten  without obviously being hypersensitized and still affected by the previous one.


----------



## South by Southwest

_A: "Different people have different tastes."
B: "Well, they shouldn't."_

And I wander away from another thread.


----------



## Cadence

It wonder how many GM's take on the part of the almighty in the beginning of James Fenton's poem as their role in the game:



Spoiler: Beginning of the poem



A nasty surprise in a sandwich,
A drawing-pin caught in your sock,
The limpest of shakes from a hand which
You’d thought would be firm as a rock,

A serious mistake in a nightie,
A grave disappointment all round
Is all that you’ll get from th’ Almighty,
Is all that you’ll get underground.

Oh he _said_: ‘If you lay off the crumpet
I’ll see you alright in the end.
Just hang on until the last trumpet.
Have faith in me, chum – I’m your friend.’

But if you remind him, he’ll tell you:
‘I’m sorry, I must have been pissed –



(the rest doesn't really apply).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I’ve been occupied recently researching the best way to put numbers in upper case so I can better shout at people on the internet who do math wrong.


----------



## Hussar

Heh. Just got an advertisement email from Costco in Japan advertising the fact that the now have Hawaiian pizza.


----------



## Cadence

"Nobody thinks clearly, no matter what they pretend. Thinking’s a dizzy business, a matter of catching as many of those foggy glimpses as you can and fitting them together the best you can. That’s why people hang on so tight to their beliefs and opinions; because, compared to the haphazard way in which they’re arrived at, even the goofiest opinion seems wonderfully clear, sane, and self-evident. And if you let it get away from you, then you’ve got to dive back into that foggy muddle to wangle yourself out another to take its place."

-The Continental Op (in Dasheill Hammett's The Dain Curse)


----------



## el-remmen

The pedantry on these forums is nearly unbearable.  

So much so, in fact, I expect someone to come along to say that technically pedantry is not a physical object that can be carried, so it is _actually_ unbearable, not _nearly_.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> The pedantry on these forums is nearly unbearable.
> 
> So much so, in fact, I expect someone to come along to say that technically pedantry is not a physical object that can be carried, so it is _actually_ unbearable, not _nearly_.



You are technically correct, which is the best form of correct.


----------



## dragoner

Nothing turns one off a game like pedantry


----------



## South by Southwest

dragoner said:


> Nothing turns one off a game like pedantry



_But if we don't have all our terms exhaustively defined and quantified, how can we know when we're having fun???

_


----------



## dragoner

South by Southwest said:


> _But if we don't have all our terms exhaustively defined and quantified, how can we know when we're having fun???
> 
> _



Its like I read stuff, and think, if that was a book, I would not read it.


----------



## niklinna

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I’ve been occupied recently researching the best way to put numbers in upper case so I can better shout at people on the internet who do math wrong.



Unfortunately, numerals are by default already in the equivalent of upper case, and they're generally implemented in the typeface rather than character encoding.









						Text figures - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Gammadoodler

When replies get so long you need multi-quote to follow them. They are objectively too long. 

Otoh..If you can't blow them away with your brilliance, baffle them with your bs I guess.


----------



## dragoner

Gammadoodler said:


> Otoh..If you can't blow them away with your brilliance, baffle them with your bs I guess.



esp when they say they are from "troll country".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gammadoodler said:


> When replies get so long you need multi-quote to follow them. They are objectively too long.
> 
> Otoh..If you can't blow them away with your brilliance, baffle them with your bs I guess.




Since brevity is the soul of wit, and tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes, I will be brief. When I read those who elevate their own loquaciousness over perspicuousness, I desire forthwith to become a better stranger to them.


----------



## Gradine

I enjoy Strunk & White's _The Elements of Style_, where the section on Brevity proceeds as follows:

"Omit needless words."


----------



## South by Southwest

So the new Glitchling race in UA got me going...


----------



## Ryujin

Gammadoodler said:


> When replies get so long you need multi-quote to follow them. They are objectively too long.
> 
> Otoh..If you can't blow them away with your brilliance, baffle them with your bs I guess.



I was once on a forum on which one particular poster would break a relatively short post down into individual bits, then write a paragraph or more of rebuttal to each. Seriously; sometimes this guy would break up a single _sentence_ to argue as if there were separate points in it. It took a little while to figure out how to deal with him; smash it all back together and give a short response. It infuriated him


----------



## dragoner

I thought breaking up posts was akin to trolling


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> I was once on a forum on which one particular poster would break a relatively short post down into individual bits, then write a paragraph or more of rebuttal to each. Seriously; sometimes this guy would break up a single _sentence_ to argue as if there were separate points in it.




Maybe he was just going all Roland Barthes on the posts?

"I'm not trolling you; I am trying to understand the semiotics of your posts by deconstructing the text and exposing the fact that it has multiple signifiers that do not refer to the same fixed signified."

There is a fine line between clever and stupid, after all!


----------



## billd91

dragoner said:


> I thought breaking up posts was akin to trolling



It shouldn't, if used with sensible moderation. I see it as more like posting walls of text with no paragraph breaks. It's technically OK, but really annoying if you go overboard with it.
Breaking up posts to direct responses to a particular point can be helpful if done well.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> It shouldn't, if used with sensible moderation. I see it as more like posting walls of text with no paragraph breaks. It's technically OK, but really annoying if you go overboard with it.
> Breaking up posts to direct responses to a particular point can be helpful if done well.



This guy was breaking up several sentences in order to respond to each of them, individually and differently, when they were part of a single coherent thought.


----------



## billd91

Ryujin said:


> This guy was breaking up several sentences in order to respond to each of them, individually and differently, when they were part of a single coherent thought.



So he was the poster boy for using the practice *im*moderately.


----------



## dragoner

Yes, it's the doing it too much, and having too many breaks, as well as often posting with multiple tangents.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> Yes, it's the doing it too much, and having too many breaks, as well as often posting with multiple tangents.



As I said, even breaking up single sentences. That's pretty extreme.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> As I said, even breaking up single sentences. That's pretty extreme.



That is totally doing it. I remember years ago, watching people troll on the myspace forums, some of it was like an art form, esp in the religion and philosophy, or politics subforums.


----------



## el-remmen

I have at least two more "True/False" poll statements lined up for tomorrow and the day after, and plan to continue to post them daily as the inspiration strikes.

Do I have a secret agenda with these posts?


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I have at least two more "True/False" poll statements lined up for tomorrow and the day after, and plan to continue to post them daily as the inspiration strikes.
> 
> Do I have a secret agenda with these posts?



Im sure at the end, whatever theory you had, will be proven absolutely correct.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I have at least two more "True/False" poll statements lined up for tomorrow and the day after, and plan to continue to post them daily as the inspiration strikes.
> 
> Do I have a secret agenda with these posts?


----------



## SubrosaGames

I didn't post in another thread because I don't want to come across as advertising our game. I mean, we believe it's a great RPG and we want more people to have eyes on it but we don't like sloppy blatant ads. ugh. Also, anybody in this forum from east of St. Louis? Looking for a solid experienced group to playtest rules for our Cyber <Punk> Expansion book / beta. We are 1 hour east of St. Louis.


----------



## Gammadoodler

billd91 said:


> It shouldn't, if used with sensible moderation. I see it as more like posting walls of text with no paragraph breaks. It's technically OK, but really annoying if you go overboard with it.
> Breaking up posts to direct responses to a particular point can be helpful if done well.



Perhaps what has driven my distaste for the broken quote is that it acts as a wall-of-text multiplier. Once it becomes necessary, it only gets worse and it's already too late.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Pictured:

People trying to get me to comment on a thread.






Naw. I see that topping. I know what the slice is going to taste like.

I DENY THEE!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pictured:
> 
> People trying to get me to comment on a thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naw. I see that topping. I know what the slice is going to taste like.
> 
> I DENY THEE!



Open up Bro-chacho.


----------



## CleverNickName

My brain, when someone tells me that they hate a game that they've never played*:






*Also:  book they've never read, food they've never eaten, song they've never heard, you get the picture.   Why would you ever want "I HATE THIS" to be your baseline, default opinion? 

"Oh but see, I may not have _played _it _per se,_ but I've spoken to people who lived next door to a guy that dated someone who played it once, and it was completely awful, so I don't _have _to play it to know that I already hate it.  Que E Dee."

Yeah, sure buddy.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> My brain, when someone tells me that they hate a game that they've never played*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Also:  book they've never read, food they've never eaten, song they've never heard, you get the picture.   Why would you ever want "I HATE THIS" to be your baseline opinion?
> 
> "Oh but see, I may not have _played _it _per se,_ but I've spoken to people who lived next door to a guy that dated someone who played it once, and it was completely awful, so I don't _have _to play it to know that I already hate it.  Que E Dee."
> 
> Yeah, sure buddy.



I hated Tuna on thin crust pizza, I acted Tuna in Calzone's, I hated Tuna on NY style pizza... and now I have to try it on Detroit style pizza to say I don't want it there either!?!?


(Ok, I actually only had Tuna in a casserole, but that's basically Chicago style pizza, right?)


----------



## dragoner

It's not only this thread, every 'how to' thread seems to be off in the weeds like a dirt bike; without touching on the mechanics.


----------



## dragoner

I'm a numbers guy, its been my life for better or worse, so when I was thinking about gaming, while doing some prep, it is now at forty-two years doing this. I probably don't have twenty years left, not half again the time I have spent. Realistically, when games, campaigns, last a few years at least, so most likely not even ten more ... *

*moral: never look at the numbers

_“Death is always on the way, but the fact that you don't know when it will arrive seems to take away from the finiteness of life. It's that terrible precision that we hate so much. But because we don't know, we get to think of life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens a certain number of times, and a very small number, really. How many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood, some afternoon that's so deeply a part of your being that you can't even conceive of your life without it? Perhaps four or five times more. Perhaps not even. How many more times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps twenty. And yet it all seems limitless.”_ 
-The Sheltering Sky


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> My brain, when someone tells me that they hate a game that they've never played*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Also:  book they've never read, food they've never eaten, song they've never heard, you get the picture.   Why would you ever want "I HATE THIS" to be your baseline, default opinion?
> 
> "Oh but see, I may not have _played _it _per se,_ but I've spoken to people who lived next door to a guy that dated someone who played it once, and it was completely awful, so I don't _have _to play it to know that I already hate it.  Que E Dee."
> 
> Yeah, sure buddy.



Like my friend's "too popular to be good" stance. He has to hear of it first (or only hear from one other person) otherwise too many people know about it and its no good at this point. A real headscratcher that one. I've even introduced things to him that he tries to introduce to me months later saying he discovered it. lol


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Like my friend's "too popular to be good" stance. He has to hear of it first (or only hear from one other person) otherwise too many people know about it and its no good at this point. A real headscratcher that one. I've even introduced things to him that he tries to introduce to me months later saying he discovered it. lol



Reminds me of this gem from Diesel Sweeties:


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> My brain, when someone tells me that they hate a game that they've never played*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Also:  book they've never read, food they've never eaten, song they've never heard, you get the picture.   Why would you ever want "I HATE THIS" to be your baseline, default opinion?
> 
> "Oh but see, I may not have _played _it _per se,_ but I've spoken to people who lived next door to a guy that dated someone who played it once, and it was completely awful, so I don't _have _to play it to know that I already hate it.  Que E Dee."
> 
> Yeah, sure buddy.



In principle, I agree with you.

In practice, I don't need to read *this book* if I've read other books by the same author (or maybe in the same genre) and didn't like them. This isn't *I HATE THIS* as a baseline, but more ... a recognition that something doesn't work for my tastes and preferences. Same for music by a known quantity, or food containing an ingredient I know I cannot stand. Also, most of the time, I try to recognize different people have different tastes and preferences.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> In principle, I agree with you.
> 
> In practice, I don't need to read *this book* if I've read other books by the same author (or maybe in the same genre) and didn't like them. This isn't *I HATE THIS* as a baseline, but more ... a recognition that something doesn't work for my tastes and preferences. Same for music by a known quantity, or food containing an ingredient I know I cannot stand. Also, most of the time, I try to recognize different people have different tastes and preferences.



My motto is _dont knock it until you rock it_. So, if enough folks tell me to give it a whirl, I likely will. Though, as you say about certain food ingredients, its ok not to rock something . I'll just not be able to honestly knock it. I used to be super picky about books. I was the type that must finish any book they start. Took me a long time to break that habit. Now, I'll go as far as I can but it doesn't bother me to leave something unfinished if it sucks that bad.


----------



## Hussar

dragoner said:


> /snip good stuff.



SOrry, was trying to make a joke and it REALLY didn't work.

I have gotten to the point where if someone is Fisking, I don't even bother reading the post anymore.  I'll write some pretty lengthy posts, from time to time, but, when my post is right above yours, and you're breaking it up like that?  Nope.  Not gonna do it.

-----------
In other news, my stalker has returned.  More than two years.  Hasn't posted on any other threads other than to snipe at me every six months or so.  It's actually rather impressive and very, very sad at the same time.  

I finally broke down and just put him into my ignore list.  But, wow.  That's a LOONG time to hold a grudge for someone you've never met in person.  Yikes.


----------



## dragoner

Hussar said:


> SOrry, was trying to make a joke and it REALLY didn't work.
> 
> I have gotten to the point where if someone is Fisking, I don't even bother reading the post anymore.  I'll write some pretty lengthy posts, from time to time, but, when my post is right above yours, and you're breaking it up like that?  Nope.  Not gonna do it.
> 
> -----------
> In other news, my stalker has returned.  More than two years.  Hasn't posted on any other threads other than to snipe at me every six months or so.  It's actually rather impressive and very, very sad at the same time.
> 
> I finally broke down and just put him into my ignore list.  But, wow.  That's a LOONG time to hold a grudge for someone you've never met in person.  Yikes.



I think yes, I wasn't try to accuse anyone in particular, it seems just when one breaks it up to refute it point by point, it's probably done to be annoying. The IL is golden in its own way.


----------



## Hussar

dragoner said:


> I think yes, I wasn't try to accuse anyone in particular, it seems just when one breaks it up to refute it point by point, it's probably done to be annoying. The IL is golden in its own way.



Naw, I edited my joke where I broke up your entire post, one word at a time between quotes.    It was funny in my head but, not so much when I actually saw it.  Took up WAYYYY too much space.


----------



## Raunalyn

Poor little fella...doesn't like his hypocrisy being pointed out to him.

Pretty typical.


----------



## South by Southwest

Let's not be that way toward each other.


----------



## el-remmen

Maybe by the end of this run of poll questions, I can use them to build a "What kind of DM are you?" quiz.


----------



## Retreater

SubrosaGames said:


> I didn't post in another thread because I don't want to come across as advertising our game. I mean, we believe it's a great RPG and we want more people to have eyes on it but we don't like sloppy blatant ads. ugh. Also, anybody in this forum from east of St. Louis? Looking for a solid experienced group to playtest rules for our Cyber <Punk> Expansion book / beta. We are 1 hour east of St. Louis.



I'm technically east of St. Louis - in Western KY.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Maybe by the end of this run of poll questions, I can use them to build a "What kind of DM are you?" quiz.



Gamist, narrativist, simulationist???


----------



## prabe

You're clearly expecting the words you're quoting to mean what you think they mean. They are alas being used in a highly technical, deeply counterintuitive way, so they kinda mean the opposite of that.


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> Maybe by the end of this run of poll questions, I can use them to build a "What kind of DM are you?" quiz.



You could try asking:
*"ENWorld, what is the best in D&D?"* 
I'm certain that would maximize goodwill and generate warm, fuzzy kumbaya vibes all around! It would also prompt endless Conan the Barbarian jokes.*


_* Which is good, because "endless Conan the Barbarian jokes" is, of course, the only proper answer to the question, "What is the best in D&D?" _


----------



## el-remmen

J.Quondam said:


> You could try asking:
> *"ENWorld, what is the best in D&D?"*
> I'm certain that would maximize goodwill and generate warm, fuzzy kumbaya vibes all around! It would also prompt endless Conan the Barbarian jokes.*
> 
> 
> _* Which is good, because "endless Conan the Barbarian jokes" is, of course, the only proper answer to the question, "What is the best in D&D?" _




That breaks the true/false format.  
I'd have to frame it to be something like: "True or False: _I _am what is best in D&D."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Maybe by the end of this run of poll questions, I can use them to build a "What kind of DM are you?" quiz.




What kind of DM?


----------



## Cadence

I'm now wanting to know what the different reactions of customers are when showing up at a restaurant and not finding out they're out of pineapple and pepperoni until going to order, or that everyone gets the same wait person regardless of what seat yourself table is chosen instead of the one at the adjacent table.  I don't think those would bother me.  

Finding out an ostensibly trainable music service didn't care about my thumbs up and thumbs down certainly would.


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> Watching people talk past each other in real time. . .




Ooops. I thought I was posting in this thread. Oh well.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> You could try asking:
> *"ENWorld, what is the best in D&D?"*
> I'm certain that would maximize goodwill and generate warm, fuzzy kumbaya vibes all around! It would also prompt endless Conan the Barbarian jokes.*
> 
> 
> _* Which is good, because "endless Conan the Barbarian jokes" is, of course, the only proper answer to the question, "What is the best in D&D?" _



Damn. You cut my response off at the knees.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I am an old gamer, which means I recognize four types of gamers: Real Men, Real Rôle-Players, Loonies and Munchkins. As a devotee of the Best RPG of All Time (*Spawn of Fashan*), I place myself in the Loonie category.


----------



## Cadence

"The outcome of successful planning always looks like luck to saps."

- The Continental Op


----------



## Mannahnin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> I am an old gamer, which means I recognize four types of gamers: Real Men, Real Rôle-Players, Loonies and Munchkins. As a devotee of the Best RPG of All Time (*Spawn of Fashan*), I place myself in the Loonie category.







> (By Lawrence R. Raimonda, Dragon Magazine 128, December '87)
> 
> U 2 Kan Earn Big Bux!
> 
> Take this exam, and join the adventuring horde!
> 
> Times are hard, and adventures promising wealth and fame are few and far between. How can you make sure that you are right for the adventurer's life?
> 
> How? It's easy! Here at the Greyhawk Institute for Adventurous Neophyte Training, we have come up with the sure-fire solution: The Superior Personality Under Development course. That's right!
> 
> Personality is the key to conquest! It's the real reason one fighter is chosen of the other when adventuring groups are formed. Are you too sophisticated for hack-n-slash?
> 
> Do friends call you "stupid" as a compliment? Do rabid orcish marauders think of you as too aggressive?
> 
> No problem!
> 
> At the Greyhawk Institute for Adventurous Neophyte Training, we'll put you through an intense program of classroom instruction and on-the-job training. Also, at no extra cost, you will receive our Superior Personality Under Development study guide. Just take a few minutes and fill out the following application. You can't afford to pass this opportunity by!











						Big Bux
					

U 2 KAN ERN BIG BUX! Take this exam, and join adventuring horde! Times are hard, and adventures promising wealth and fame are few and far between. How can you make sure that you are right for the adventurer's life?  How? It's easy! Here at the Greyhawk Institute for Adventurous Neophyte...




					rumandmonkey.com


----------



## Malmuria

Thesis: Toxic Positivity
Antithesis: Toxic Negativity
Synthesis: Apathy


----------



## RealAlHazred

Malmuria said:


> Thesis: Toxic Positivity
> Antithesis: Toxic Negativity
> Synthesis: Apathy



Thesis: Toxic Positivity
Antithesis: Antitoxic Negativity
Synthesis:


----------



## Gradine

I was today old when I realized that the dude in that GIF is Shia LeBeouf


----------



## Mannahnin

Gradine said:


> I was today old when I realized that the dude in that GIF is Shia LeBeouf



Shia playing Doug Henning, or a Doug Henning-like character, right?


----------



## SubrosaGames

Retreater said:


> I'm technically east of St. Louis - in Western KY.



Yes, lol. Unfortunately, even Morganfield KY would still be about 2.5 hrs away.


----------



## South by Southwest

Mannahnin said:


> Shia playing Doug Henning, or a Doug Henning-like character, right?



Until Gradine mentioned it, I seriously thought it _was_ Doug Henning.


----------



## dragoner

So that is where the character in Masterpiece's Press got that expression.


----------



## Cadence

"You seem to be getting a little frustrated.  I take it you've never been in a thread with X before.  Just so you understand where they're coming from, 'your game doesn't do the good stuff'.  What good stuff?  Apparently any of it.  Sorry."


----------



## el-remmen

What ENWorld posts feel like sometimes:

OP: "I am new to D&D and am wondering where I can buy dice. Any help?"
ENWorld Poster: "Are you planning to ever fudge? Because if so, why do you even need dice?"


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> What ENWorld posts feel like sometimes:
> 
> OP: "I am new to D&D and am wondering where I can buy dice. Any help?"
> ENWorld Poster: "Are you planning to ever fudge? Because if so, why do you even need dice?"



lol, I remember on a pathfinder forum a newb asked how to make a swashbuckler that uses a rapier as the only requirement. He was told the only way to do it was to be a Monk and take a feat that allows piercing fist.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> lol, I remember on a pathfinder forum a newb asked how to make a swashbuckler that uses a rapier as the only requirement. He was told the only way to do it was to be a Monk and take a feat that allows piercing fist.



Ah, yes, the _helpful_ post that really isn't very helpful.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Ah, yes, the _helpful_ post that really isn't very helpful.



"but I want a rapier..."
"yeah well you cant fury of blows with a rapier and get that x3 crit damage modifier, so its not possible to be a swashbuckler"


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> What ENWorld posts feel like sometimes:
> 
> OP: "I am new to D&D and am wondering where I can buy dice. Any help?"
> ENWorld Poster: "Are you planning to ever fudge? Because if so, why do you even need dice?"



Oh I know right?

First post:  "Hey guys, check out this house-rule that my friends and I wrote.  We really like it, maybe you'll like it too!"
Next few posts:  "Nice.  I might use this in my home game."
But soon:  "This house-rule is bad, and I want you to feel bad for sharing it."
And then:  "You should just play something else, since you hate D&D so much."
At least once:  "(X)e didn't have that problem.  Let me tell you about (X)e again." (attaches essay)
Eventually:  "Guys, calm down or I'll lock this thread."

I'm exaggerating of course, but not by much.


----------



## dragoner

Here I thought it was just me that noticed that. However, I did experiment with blocking some of the more prolific posters, and it changed the quality of the site, made it more cozy for sure.


----------



## Malmuria

payn said:


> lol, I remember on a pathfinder forum a newb asked how to make a swashbuckler that uses a rapier as the only requirement. He was told the only way to do it was to be a Monk and take a feat that allows piercing fist.



"you can do this better in pathfinder 2e"


----------



## Deset Gled

I'm waiting for the day @el-remmen posts the thread "This statement is false (a poll)"  True or False?


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> I'm waiting for the day @el-remmen posts the thread "This statement is false (a poll)"  True or False?


----------



## trappedslider

Deset Gled said:


> I'm waiting for the day @el-remmen posts the thread "This statement is false (a poll)"  True or False?



i'm waiting for morrus to do that and then not post anything in the thread


----------



## CleverNickName

Just a few more, and I'll have enough to kick off
*"5E Survivor: @el-remmen D&D Polls"*


----------



## Retreater

Malmuria said:


> "you can do this better in pathfinder 2e"



The only thing I can't do better in PF2 is avoiding killing the party.


----------



## Hussar

dragoner said:


> Here I thought it was just me that noticed that. However, I did experiment with blocking some of the more prolific posters, and it changed the quality of the site, made it more cozy for sure.



Heh.  Well, at least I can still see your posts, so, I haven't pissed people off too much.

Although, it is a bit funny.  I'll notice that someone has me blocked because I can see the responses by someone else and realize that I'm only seeing half the conversation.  So, if I'm bored, I'll open up the phone app and take a look at who has me blocked.  The truly weird thing is I've seen people who've blocked me that I honestly cannot remember ever interacting with, never minding having a negative interaction.    It's kinda like, "Huh?  What did I do?"

OTOH, my personal blocking policy is that I just know there are certain posters I absolutely cannot have a positive interaction with.  It just won't happen.  So, they get whacked onto my block list, mostly to stop me from having to get beaten about the head and shoulders by the Mod hammer for being stupid.


----------



## dragoner

Hussar said:


> Heh.  Well, at least I can still see your posts, so, I haven't pissed people off too much.
> 
> Although, it is a bit funny.  I'll notice that someone has me blocked because I can see the responses by someone else and realize that I'm only seeing half the conversation.  So, if I'm bored, I'll open up the phone app and take a look at who has me blocked.  The truly weird thing is I've seen people who've blocked me that I honestly cannot remember ever interacting with, never minding having a negative interaction.    It's kinda like, "Huh?  What did I do?"
> 
> OTOH, my personal blocking policy is that I just know there are certain posters I absolutely cannot have a positive interaction with.  It just won't happen.  So, they get whacked onto my block list, mostly to stop me from having to get beaten about the head and shoulders by the Mod hammer for being stupid.



I have also found that a lot of people I block get the boot anyways, so it is not even a deal.


----------



## Hussar

dragoner said:


> I have also found that a lot of people I block get the boot anyways, so it is not even a deal.



Funny that...

But, in keeping with the thread let me just say that while I am totally a dog with a bone, after 46 pages, it's really time for me to unwatch that thread.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Just a few more, and I'll have enough to kick off
> *"5E Survivor: @el-remmen D&D Polls"*




I helped you out today. . .  but as of right now still waiting for inspiration for more.


----------



## RealAlHazred

dragoner said:


> I have also found that a lot of people I block get the boot anyways, so it is not even a deal.



Who are you replying to?


----------



## CleverNickName

And order a Hawaiian-style pizza for lunch.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## el-remmen

I love my cast iron cookware, both for cooking and for defending myself against Hawaiian Pizza naysayers.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I love my cast iron cookware, both for cooking and for defending myself against Hawaiian Pizza naysayers.




You know ... you can use a deep cast-iron pans to cook up one of those tomato-sauce swimming pools that @Cadence is always coveting.

Yum- deep dish lasagna casserole with little bits of pineapple floating about in it. Bon Appetit!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You know ... you can use a deep cast-iron pans to cook up one of those tomato-sauce swimming pools that @Cadence is always coveting.
> 
> Yum- deep dish lasagna casserole with little bits of pineapple floating about in it. Bon Appetit!



Dont appetite shame me bro!


----------



## el-remmen

I do make an incredible pineapple upside-down cake in my bigger iron skillet.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


>



Reasonably sure that, if I did that:

There would be no pan left -- the whole thing is just black grime.
I would be dead.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Dont appetite shame me bro!




I'm just here to chew bubblegum and ring my bell ....






...and I'm all outta bubblegum.


----------



## CleverNickName

Also,  "I wrote a suite of house-rules that make 5th Edition play more like (older Edition)!"


----------



## Gradine

I prefer her in Ted Lasso, personally


----------



## dragoner

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Who are you replying to?



Ghosts ...


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm just here to chew bubblegum and ring my bell ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and I'm all outta bubblegum.



Just keep ringing pal...


----------



## payn

Self fulling prophecy much?


----------



## el-remmen

You are saying a lot but all I hear is "5E sucks because I play with awful people that can't be reasoned with."


----------



## Hussar

el-remmen said:


> You are saying a lot but all I hear is "5E sucks because I play with awful people that can't be reasoned with."



_snort_ 

Ok, folks, the last couple of pages, made me giggle like a mildly concused monkey in the corner.  Very funny stuff.  Well done you gentle beings.


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> "but I want a rapier..."
> "yeah well you cant fury of blows with a rapier and get that x3 crit damage modifier, so its not possible to be a swashbuckler"




 My response to people in that sort of situation in the past was generally to bust out some super-optimized perfectly legal build that would, in fact, allow them to do that_ and _also make the original poster happy, and then sit back and watch them wail and gnash their teeth as the dirty optimizing heretic stole all their badwrongfun...


----------



## Cadence

I really, really want to reply how the one Pizza you describe is Tuna and Pineapple, and how the other is the same kind of topping selection we get offered at Pizza Hut or Marco's.   But then I'd feel obligated to read whatever defense you offered and I already know it comes down to the chain restaurants never having the good stuff, and my palate not being discerning enough to notice.


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> My response to people in that sort of situation in the past was generally to bust out some super-optimized perfectly legal build that would, in fact, allow them to do that_ and _also make the original poster happy, and then sit back and watch them wail and gnash their teeth as the dirty optimizing heretic stole all their badwrongfun...



Oh that's beautiful. Once, somebody tried that with a guy talking about his invincible Monk AC build. Some combo of feats allowed it to dodge the first of just about any attack or some such. Another poster rolls in talking about a multi-shot ranger being bale to rain arrows on the monk from a distance and take them out. Monk poster says he would close the distance and simply sunder the bow string. The reply was that the bow was +X and magic items are pretty hard to sunder. Which was followed by the bow is +X, but the bow string is not. Which ultimately lead to the rulebook never saying you actually needing a bow string for the bow to shoot arrows. It was a fun time.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I really, really want to reply how the one Pizza you describe is Tuna and Pineapple, and how the other is the same kind of topping selection we get offered at Pizza Hut or Marco's.   But then I'd feel obligated to read whatever defense you offered and I already know it comes down to the chain restaurants never having the good stuff, and my palate not being discerning enough to notice.



Hmm, like a would you rather have a conventional pie from a gross ass place like Papa Johns, or a gross ass topping combo from one of the best pie joints in town?


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Just a few more, and I'll have enough to kick off
> *"5E Survivor: @el-remmen D&D Polls"*




Another one is up. . . how many until a Survivor thread?


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Oh that's beautiful. Once, somebody tried that with a guy talking about his invincible Monk AC build. Some combo of feats allowed it to dodge the first of just about any attack or some such. Another poster rolls in talking about a multi-shot ranger being bale to rain arrows on the monk from a distance and take them out. Monk poster says he would close the distance and simply sunder the bow string. The reply was that the bow was +X and magic items are pretty hard to sunder. Which was followed by the bow is +X, but the bow string is not. Which ultimately lead to the rulebook never saying you actually needing a bow string for the bow to shoot arrows. It was a fun time.



Bowstrings? Hell, who says you need arrows?


----------



## trappedslider

After reading the comments section of some of the stuff from The Boys on youtube, it now has my favorite fandom. Every single comment is done as inverse and it is glorious


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Gradine

Same, honestly


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 254825



Mine is mostly these plus these:


----------



## payn

Mannahnin said:


> Mine is mostly these plus these:
> 
> View attachment 254831



Im more like this;


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Im more like this;




Voila! C'est moi.


----------



## South by Southwest

I should think those two are compatible with each other.


----------



## J.Quondam

Nerd don't come in "Oregano-Lime BBQ mushroom with gooey goat-cheese filling" flavor, so I can't comment.


----------



## dragoner

"Hi, I am a radical, and I think 5e is bad."
Really? I have never heard that before ...


----------



## Cadence

I will not passively aggressively use the laughing emoji, I will not passively aggress....


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> Which ultimately lead to the rulebook never saying you actually needing a bow string for the bow to shoot arrows. It was a fun time.




 Satirical rules-lawyering has always been my preferred method of poking elfhats* with a stick. You can't out-argue them, you can't out-shout them, but you can out-clever them until their heads explode...  



(I would greatly prefer using my system-mastery-fu to do something like reskin a 4E pixie druid as a fey were-crow (flying at 1st level as a bird) whose powers were the natural abilities of his race, but if they're gonna be a <bleep> about something, I'll gleefully go there and bust out the perfectly rules-legal my-character-is-a-talking-horse-who-rides-on-a-talking horse shenanigans.)


* The Reaper Miniatures forums profanity filter used to replace all the bad words with "elf", and I adopted the habit of doing it on my own because it amused me...


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> I will not passively aggressively use the laughing emoji, I will not passively aggress....



Fact: I did not passive-aggressively use the laugh emoji


----------



## Ryujin

Step 1 - Take weaponsmithing as a skill
Step 2 - Make a warhammer using an Immovable Rod as the grip
Step 3 - ...
Step 4 - Profit


----------



## TwoSix

Ryujin said:


> Step 1 - Take weaponsmithing as a skill
> Step 2 - Make a warhammer using an Immovable Rod as the grip
> Step 3 - ...
> Step 4 - Profit



For reals, one of the PCs in my game has an Immovable rod installed in his shield, he'll shield bash people into the wall and then activate it.  It's occasionally broken but hella fun, keeps me on my toes as a DM.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Fact: I did not passive-aggressively use the laugh emoji




 I am never passive about my aggressive use of the laugh emoji...




TwoSix said:


> For reals, one of the PCs in my game has an Immovable rod installed in his shield, he'll shield bash people into the wall and then activate it.  It's occasionally broken but hella fun, keeps me on my toes as a DM.




One of my 2nd Ed. DMs only half-jokingly threatened to murder me after I used a _Wish_ to get a second _immovable rod_, and then proceeded to use them (and multiple ropes) to quickly move the entire party through the air across a canyon, bypassing a huge number of threats.


----------



## Ryujin

TwoSix said:


> For reals, one of the PCs in my game has an Immovable rod installed in his shield, he'll shield bash people into the wall and then activate it.  It's occasionally broken but hella fun, keeps me on my toes as a DM.



Step 3 is "Pretend to be Thor"


----------



## Hussar

No, no no no no.

I unwatched the damn thread for a reason.  I WILL NOT comment again.  NO NO NO.

Sigh.


----------



## el-remmen

It is amazing thing to me that people who claim to love a game that includes mimic, dopplegangers, and lycanthropes seem to believe that everything is either one thing or another. 

 Hmmm, maybe the notions of nuance, liminality  or simultaneity is the actual fantasy part for them.


----------



## J.Quondam

But who will taxonomize the taxonomizers?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

That . . . that's a really weird definition of that word/phrase. I don't think it means what you think it means.


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> It is amazing thing to me that people who claim to love a game that includes mimic, dopplegangers, and lycanthropes seem to believe that everything is either one thing or another.




 For them, it's perfectly _fine_ for one thing to have two sides, or two opposite states. Because they can still call it _one thing_ and file it in one well-defined box. But they have a hard time conceptualizing that many things contain enough room within their definitions to hold many noticeably different variations while still essentially remaining the same thing - they personally require much more finite definitions, which leads to them experiencing severe cognitive dissonance when valid interpretations of a thing's definition fall outside of their expectations.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Obviously, the movie is probably too old, but I was always a bit confused how this didn't take off as a popular meme, particularly in forum discussions just endlessly going round and round...


----------



## CleverNickName

Watch me walk right past that troll bait.  
Nope, not biting it.


----------



## prabe




----------



## payn

Looks like its been about 6-12 months since the last Star Wars rank thread. This time we got a great takeaway. Clone Wars series cures insomnia!


----------



## prabe

I get what you're getting at, but I think it wouldn't solve the problem you're trying to solve. However, saying so wouldn't be helpful.


----------



## el-remmen

We have a new contender in the "Will el-remmen block them?" competition. . . Someone who apparently has been around a long time but only recently came into my awareness with frequent rage-inducing claims cloaked in a façade of "reason" that doubles as an aura of social cluelessness in the form of condescension.   My guess is that the next time I barely avoid responding to their nonsense, I will block them instead.


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> We have a new contender in the "Will el-remmen block them?" competition. . . Someone who apparently has been around a long time but only recently came into my awareness with frequent rage-inducing claims cloaked in a façade of "reason" that doubles as an aura of social cluelessness in the form of condescension.   My guess is that the next time I barely avoid responding to their nonsense, I will block them instead.


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> We have a new contender in the "Will el-remmen block them?" competition. . . Someone who apparently has been around a long time but only recently came into my awareness with frequent rage-inducing claims cloaked in a façade of "reason" that doubles as an aura of social cluelessness in the form of condescension.   My guess is that the next time I barely avoid responding to their nonsense, I will block them instead.


----------



## el-remmen

Whatever happened to the Circvs Maximvs forums?


----------



## TwoSix

el-remmen said:


> Whatever happened to the Circvs Maximvs forums?



They're pretty much dead whenever I check.  

Which is a shame, because I'd love to know who's driving you into a rage.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> We have a new contender in the "Will el-remmen block them?" competition. . .




....they replaced me, didn't they?


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....they replaced me, didn't they?




I'm afraid to tell you how far back you've fallen in the ranks because you might start trying to gain ground.


----------



## el-remmen

TwoSix said:


> They're pretty much dead whenever I check.




Huh! I couldn't even find them when I googled!



TwoSix said:


> Which is a shame, because I'd love to know who's driving you into a rage.




If you really want to know, DM me.  But what if it's you?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I'm afraid to tell you how far back you've fallen in the ranks because you might start trying to gain ground.




It's like my grand-mamma always said, "Snarf, if you can't be part of the solution, become a part of the problem. Now get yer nana some laudanum and gin for her bingo!"


----------



## South by Southwest

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's like my grand-mamma always said, "Snarf, if you can't be part of the solution, become a part of the problem. Now get yer nana some laudanum and gin for her bingo!"



We might be related.


----------



## CleverNickName

*Me:*  Mmm, orange marmalade.  I love it, had some with breakfast the other day.
*Someone:  *Have you had it on pizza yet?
*Me: * That doesn't sound like something I'd enjoy.
*Someone: * You know, you could mix it into the pizza sauce.  That would help hide the taste.
*Me:  *But why?  I'll just keep the marmalade for my toast, thanks.
*Someone else: * Sorry that you hate marmalade.  Maybe you could try dipping the crusts in it as you eat?
*A third person: * You could also put the marmalade _inside_ the crust! It would be like a dessert after you finish the slice!
*A fourth: * You don't even have to eat it, really.  You could just, like, dab it on your wrist while eating pizza.
*Me:  *...what?
*Someone else: * Why not put it in the salad dressing?  You eat salad with pizza, yes?  Make a marmalade-vinaigrette!
*Me: * Seriously, no thanks.  I'll leave the marmalade for when I'm eating a scone or something.
*Someone: * What's with all the marmalade-hate around here?

(It's a metaphor, you see)


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> *Me:*  Mmm, orange marmalade.  I love it, had some with breakfast the other day.
> *Someone:  *Have you had it on pizza yet?
> *Me: * That doesn't sound like something I'd enjoy.
> *Someone: * You know, you could mix it into the pizza sauce.  That would help hide the taste.
> *Me:  *But why?  I'll just keep the marmalade for my toast, thanks.
> *Someone else: * Sorry that you hate marmalade.  Maybe you could try dipping the crusts in it as you eat?
> *A third person: * You could also put the marmalade _inside_ the crust! It would be like a dessert after you finish the slice!
> *A fourth: * You don't even have to eat it, really.  You could just, like, dab it on your wrist while eating pizza.
> *Me:  *...what?
> *Someone else: * Why not put it in the salad dressing?  You eat salad with pizza, yes?  Make a marmalade-vinaigrette!
> *Me: * Seriously, no thanks.  I'll leave the marmalade for when I'm eating a scone or something.
> *Someone: * What's with all the marmalade-hate around here?
> 
> (It's a metaphor, you see)




What I'm getting from this is that you really hate marmalade. Next you'll want to hunt down Paddington Bear and wear his pelt. Monster.


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> What I'm getting from this is that you really hate marmalade. Next you'll want to hunt down Paddington Bear and wear his pelt. Monster.



I know right?


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> But what if it's you?




 Ooh, ooh, Is it me????   

(If not, I could try harder...)


----------



## prabe

That, sir, is a trap, and I will not walk into it.

You are, of course, wrong.


----------



## Retreater

payn said:


> Looks like its been about 6-12 months since the last Star Wars rank thread. This time we got a great takeaway. Clone Wars series cures insomnia!



For real. No lie. I can't even explain it: something about the opening music, the timbre of the announcer's voice, the rapid-fire declarations of alien names that I don't know. If someone started playing it while I was driving, I could possibly fall asleep at the wheel.


----------



## prabe




----------



## BookTenTiger

prabe said:


>



Pizza is also a flat circle.


----------



## prabe

BookTenTiger said:


> Pizza is also a flat circle.



I'D LIKE A LARGE TIME WITH EXTRA PINEAPPLE PLEASE


----------



## payn

Now I want a lonestar tallboy.


----------



## el-remmen

I'm currently out of poll ideas. Well, I have some very rough ideas I am failing to articulate in the true/false format. So if anyone has one they want to share, DM me.  I'll pay for your idea with exposure.


----------



## prabe

Huh. I've avoided walking into *two* traps today.

Go me.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Huh. I've avoided walking into *two* traps today.
> 
> Go me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Huh. I've avoided walking into *two* traps today.
> 
> Go me.




Meanwhile, this video is recounting my progress on enworld today ...


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Meanwhile, this video is recounting my progress on enworld today ...



You did step on at least one, really hard, didn't you?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> You did step on at least one, really hard, didn't you?


----------



## prabe




----------



## Mezuka

With all the traditional rpg bashing happening on this forum I feel less and less welcome here. Morrus asked a while back where do the 50+ members go? We just leave. There is no destination.


----------



## Deset Gled

Mezuka said:


> With all the traditional rpg bashing happening on this forum I feel less and less welcome here. Morrus asked a while back where do the 50+ members go? We just leave. There is no destination.




My best advice is to ignore the threads that make you feel less welcome. You can still be part of the community even if you don't participate in any of the big conversations. 

My mediocre advice is to try not putting people on "ignore". Instead, learn which people can turn a thread sour, and make sure you don't post in any threads with those people. Not just abstaining from that person, but the whole thread. At least until after they're been removed; it's amazing how much some seemingly hopeless threads can occasionally turn around once a couple bad apples are removed. The downside to this method is that it's much more work than simply blocking a person you don't like, and you occasionally have to leave threads you want to be part of.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mezuka said:


> With all the traditional rpg bashing happening on this forum I feel less and less welcome here. Morrus asked a while back where do the 50+ members go? We just leave. There is no destination.




I try to take a more nuanced view of it. I really think that there is often a failure to see things from other perspectives; for example, from my P.O.V. I do agree with you. The vitriol that I see is primarily directed at more traditional RPGs.

OTOH, I can also see that others might view it differently. To them, they are simply defending their preferred playing style against the evil old grognards that seek to crush it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

_Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth._

For the most part, I think that the discussions here are civil and fun, and I do my best to ignore the threads that might anger my blood.

...not that I'm always successful with that.


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> Huh. I've avoided walking into *two* traps today.
> 
> Go me.



_tackles you_


----------



## el-remmen

All my polls are leading me to hypothesis. . .  but it will take MOAR POLLS to test it.


----------



## Mezuka

Thanks guys. I should know better.

RANT:
It never just never ends.
When CoC came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
When Runequest came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
When Vampire came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
When Savage Worlds, it's so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
When Dogs in the Vineyard ...
When FATE ...
When PtbA ...

Next, there are going to tell us traditional RPGs cause brain damage and link it to pornography... no wait they already did that!

It never just never ends.

They sound like failed Greek philosophers trying to get disciples while standing on a wooden box in the middle of the piazza.

END RANT


----------



## Ryujin

Mezuka said:


> Thanks guys. I should know better.
> 
> RANT:
> It never just never ends.
> When CoC came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
> When Runequest came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
> When Vampire came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
> When Savage Worlds, it's so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
> When Dogs in the Vineyard ...
> When FATE ...
> When PtbA ...
> 
> Next, there are going to tell us traditional RPGs cause brain damage and link it to pornography... no wait they already did that!
> 
> It never just never ends.
> 
> They sound like failed Greek philosophers trying to get disciples while standing on a wooden box in the middle of the piazza.
> 
> END RANT



And yet, like Kleenex and Aspirin, D&D has become a generic term for RPG in the minds of many.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mezuka said:


> They sound like failed Greek philosophers trying to get disciples while standing on a wooden box in the middle of the piazza.
> 
> END RANT




In fairness, I'd rather the Greek philosophers stand in the middle of the piazza than stand in the middle of my PIZZA.

Dang it. You probably just gave a New Zealand pizzeria an idea for some toppings.

"You want some Socrates on that? A little Aristotle on that pie?"


----------



## Deset Gled

All this discussion of "authentic" keeps bringing me back to this episode of Castle:


I accidentally posted this in the real thread before realizing that I should contain the pizza to this thread.


----------



## Malmuria

Ugh


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> Ugh




Some people only open their mouths to change feet.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Some people only open their mouths to change feet.




 Just think - if we could shove both feet in there at once, they'd never have to open their mouths.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> For the most part, I think that the discussions here are civil and fun, and I do my best to ignore the threads that might anger my blood.
> 
> ...not that I'm always successful with that.



Same.



Mezuka said:


> Thanks guys. I should know better.
> 
> RANT:
> It never just never ends.
> When CoC came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
> When Runequest came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
> When Vampire came out, it was so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
> When Savage Worlds, it's so much better. D&D bad, lost half my players. Got ridiculed at the FLGS.
> When Dogs in the Vineyard ...
> When FATE ...
> When PtbA ...



I'm mostly impressed that people play(ed) all these games at your FLGS!


----------



## Mezuka

Mannahnin said:


> Same.
> 
> 
> I'm mostly impressed that people play(ed) all these games at your FLGS!




We have a gaming store which has existed since 1980. The RPG section used to be huge with many less popular rpgs. It has diminished in size but is still the largest in town. They pledge on KSs.

The problem is the store clerk and his band of cronies. He or she changes every 3-5 years. The owner always hires the same type of pretentious know-it-all that pushes the 'new fad' and disparages D&D. The owner retired and sold the store to the employees. I haven't been there in two years.


----------



## el-remmen

The speed with which you respond to what you think you've read is more important than taking the time to read carefully and actually understand it.  I mean, if you even bother to read at all and don't just assume what a post says based on the thread title.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> The speed with which you respond to what you think you've read is more important than taking the time to read carefully and actually understand it.  I mean, if you even bother to read at all and don't just assume what a post says based on the thread title.



What, you guys read more than the thread title before responding? Wow.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> What, you guys read more than the thread title before responding? Wow.



WE AT LEAST QUOTE IT


----------



## Ryujin

Mezuka said:


> We have a gaming store which has existed since 1980. The RPG section used to be huge with many less popular rpgs. It has diminished in size but is still the largest in town. They pledge on KSs.
> 
> The problem is the store clerk and his band of cronies. He or she changes every 3-5 years. The owner always hires the same type of pretentious know-it-all that pushes the 'new fad' and disparages D&D. The owner retired and sold the store to the employees. I haven't been there in two years.



Our two best local gaming/comic book stores are still owned by a couple of guys who were one year ahead of me, in high school. They opened their first store shortly after graduation in a strip mall just a 2 minute walk from the school's front door.


----------



## el-remmen

I am at 10 True/False polls. . . If I get to 25 poll threads @CleverNickName had better really gift me a survivor poll or else I am gonna start one with just their name as a list of 1 and you can only downvote.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> The speed with which you respond to what you think you've read is more important than taking the time to read carefully and actually understand it.  I mean, if you even bother to read at all and don't just assume what a post says based on the thread title.




You don't understand! The problem isn't the person who doesn't bother reading posts, the real problem is people who write posts. Because if you write a post, you have a responsibility to make sure people read it correctly.

And in doing so, you can't make it too short, because then you haven't explained it. And you can't make it too long, because then who is going to read what you wrote. 

Really, you should only post tik toks showing how you would have danced an explanation.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You don't understand! The problem isn't the person who doesn't bother reading posts, the real problem is people who write posts. Because if you write a post, you have a responsibility to make sure people read it correctly.
> 
> And in doing so, you can't make it too short, because then you haven't explained it. And you can't make it too long, because then who is going to read what you wrote.
> 
> Really, you should only post tik toks showing how you would have danced an explanation.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


>




BEHOLD!







THE NEUTRAL REFEREE!!!!!!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You don't understand! The problem isn't the person who doesn't bother reading posts, the real problem is people who write posts. Because if you write a post, you have a responsibility to make sure people read it correctly.
> 
> And in doing so, you can't make it too short, because then you haven't explained it. And you can't make it too long, because then who is going to read what you wrote.
> 
> Really, you should only post tik toks showing how you would have danced an explanation.



Both?




Dont underestimate the *TL; DR*


----------



## billd91

What century are we living in? Sometimes I wonder.


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> What century are we living in? Sometimes I wonder.



Welcome to the Century of the Fruitbat!


----------



## CleverNickName

Remember that time when there was an argument on the Internet, and someone actually managed to change someone else's mind?

Yeah, me neither.


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> Remember that time when there was an argument on the Internet, and someone actually managed to change someone else's mind?
> 
> Yeah, me neither.



@FitzTheRuke has me feeling more copacetic about the idea of an invisible, hidden combatant still imposing disadvantage on ranged attacks for enemies within 5'.  I don't know that I'm _entirely _on board, but I would be more sanguine about it if my DM so ruled.


----------



## Ryujin

To avoid saying something intemperate, elsewhere, I'll just present you folks with a link to the .GIFs that my friend Seth made, to cover every occasion:









						zoefannet GIFs on GIPHY - Be Animated
					

GIPHY is the platform that animates your world. Find the GIFs, Clips, and Stickers that make your conversations more positive, more expressive, and more you.




					giphy.com


----------



## FitzTheRuke

prabe said:


>



It's all clear now, thanks!


----------



## Malmuria

I think games are wonderful social activities that can absolutely bring people together.  TTRPGs are especially creative, collective endeavors that lead to many long lasting friendships.  But, tip for game designers out there: focus on making your game *fun*.


----------



## payn

Fun is really subjective though.


----------



## Mad_Jack

billd91 said:


> What century are we living in? Sometimes I wonder.




So do I... Because if I figure that out I can reprogram my time machine to take me back to the one I was looking for when I landed here. (Honestly, this planet was a lot more fun when you were all monkeys.)


----------



## prabe

So there he was on a water bed
Drinking a cola of a mystery brand
Reading an airport novelette
Listening to Andrew Lloyd-Webber's  "Requiem"
He said before it had really begun
I prefer the one about my son
I've been wading through all this unbelievable junk
And wondering if I should have given the world to the monkeys

--Elvis Costello, "God's Comic"


----------



## payn

So, its a little weird seeing folks posting about 4E to 5E. 

"5E just fixed up the 4E mistakes"
"5E fixed stuff that wasnt broken!!!"

Go back to 2009 and swap 4E with 3E and 5E with 4E.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> So, its a little weird seeing folks posting about 4E to 5E.
> 
> "5E just fixed up the 4E mistakes"
> "5E fixed stuff that wasnt broken!!!"
> 
> Go back to 2009 and swap 4E with 3E and 5E with 4E.



Human nature is human nature.


----------



## RealAlHazred

New thread idea.

Title: "Ask Me Anything About Games: 40-Year Hobby Veteran"
Opening Post: "Tell me about your favorite game and why you like it, and I'll tell you how you're wrong and should feel bad! Alternatively, tell me about a game you hate, and I'll tell you how you're wrong, and have no idea how games actually should work!"

I feel like this can only encourage healthy and constructive posts.


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> New thread idea.
> 
> Title: "Ask Me Anything About Games: 40-Year Hobby Veteran"
> Opening Post: "Tell me about your favorite game and why you like it, and I'll tell you how you're wrong and should feel bad! Alternatively, tell me about a game you hate, and I'll tell you how you're wrong, and have no idea how games actually should work!"
> 
> I feel like this can only encourage healthy and constructive posts.



I mean, with that thread title you are pretty much asking for it.


----------



## el-remmen

South by Southwest said:


> Human nature is human nature.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> I mean, with that thread title you are pretty much asking for it.



Look, it's not that I crave validation for how right I am. It's that I desperately need you to know unequivocally that you're wrong, and just how terribly, terribly wrong you are. That's the real character development here!


----------



## trappedslider

One horn = Unicorn 
Two horns = Bicorn 
Three horns = Triceratops 
Four horns = JAZZ


----------



## trappedslider

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Look, it's not that I crave validation for how right I am. It's that I desperately need you to know unequivocally that you're wrong, and just how terribly, terribly wrong you are. That's the real character development here!


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> One horn = Unicorn
> Two horns = Bicorn
> Three horns = Triceratops
> Four horns = JAZZ



Two Horns (+Sax) = Phil Collins.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Two Horns (+Sax) = Phil Collins.



I'm sure there's also a ska joke in there


----------



## payn

I have no idea what is going on in this Marvel conversation; and I'm totally ok with it.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I'm sure there's also a ska joke in there



Two Horns (and a piano) = A message to you?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ah, today would be a good day for a negroni.

Hold the Campari. And the vermouth. And the ice.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ah, today would be a good day for a negroni.
> 
> Hold the Campari. And the vermouth. And the ice.


----------



## Malmuria

There are three types of games
1. Railroads
2. Meaningful
3. War

These types are best suited to particular situations.  Respectively,
1. You are emotionally dead save for the hatred you have of your friends or the mindless devotion to give to large corporations
2. You are one of the few who cares for real friendship and community, who is in touch with the creative joy that makes life worthwhile, who is an ember of hope in a dying world.
3. You need help deciding whether you are in group 1 or group 2


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I know that these are now more commonly known, but the following seven factoids are some of my favorite bits of trivia to BLOW YOUR MIND.

1. The  high-five was invented in the fall of 1977.
2. The country of New Zealand is fictional.
3. Saudi Arabia imports sand and camels from other countries.
4. Pineapples as pizza toppings and fluoridation of water were both instituted by Keebler.
5. We, today, are closer to the birth of Cleopatra than she was to the construction of the Great Pyramid. 
6. Kurt Cobain's last words were, "I wish I had written _How You Remind Me_." 
7. Heroin was originally marketed to treat morphine addiction.


----------



## el-remmen

I never thought that people ignoring three little words that are not "I love you" would aggravate me so much.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I never thought that people ignoring three little words that are not "I love you" would aggravate me so much.




If you don't want people to ignore your little words, then use a bigger font.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I know that these are now more commonly known, but the following seven factoids are some of my favorite bits of trivia to BLOW YOUR MIND.
> 
> 1. The  high-five was invented in the fall of 1977.
> 2. The country of New Zealand is fictional.
> 3. Saudi Arabia imports sand and camels from other countries.
> 4. Pineapples as pizza toppings and fluoridation of water were both instituted by Keebler.
> 5. We, today, are closer to the birth of Cleopatra than she was to the construction of the Great Pyramid.
> 6. Kurt Cobain's last words were, "I wish I had written _How You Remind Me_."
> 7. Heroin was originally marketed to treat morphine addiction.



Fun Facts: 
The earliest English Muffins contained nooks but no crannies.

Due to a horse shortage, the 1936 Kentucky Derby was run with giraffes.

Square bologna (to fit properly on square bread) has failed each time that Oscar Mayer has test-marketed it.

Round bread (to fit properly with round bologna) has succeeded each time it has been test-marketed, but the difficulty and expense in baking a round loaf of bread makes it unprofitable for bakeries.

The actual Godzilla was only 5 feet tall and was killed by Japanese soldiers within seconds.

The first-ever Tex-Mex restaurant opened in 1982 just outside of Knoxville.

In addition to Vegas, what happens in Tulsa stays in Tulsa.

Queen Elizabeth coined the phrase, “You can look, but you can’t touch.”

Every three seconds someone new does not read your blog.

Sizzler is never not hiring.

It’s considered rude to “go all in” if you’re the ugliest person playing strip poker.

Each year, 112 Americans are killed in tragic toothpick accidents.

Of all the surfers in the world, sharks find Australians the most delicious.

Middle East nations have signed a pact to unite in battle if Earth is ever attacked by extra terrestrials.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> Fun Facts:
> ....
> 
> Each year, 112 Americans are killed in tragic toothpick accidents.




Ha! You _almost _had me until this one.

Those toothpick deaths aren't tragic. They're funny!

Nice try, though.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Ha! You _almost _had me until this one.
> 
> Those toothpick deaths aren't tragic. They're funny!
> 
> Nice try, though.



you're questioning the Federal Bureau of Miscellaneous Information?

In addition to post offices and immigration offices, you can renew your passport at IHOPs.


----------



## RealAlHazred

In researching a thing for a _Call of Cthulhu_ thing, I found out that the Crown of Castile, a separate crown principality in the region of Spain, was still independent as late as 1715. I find it mind-blowing that Europe's "big kingdoms" hadn't settled yet by that point. It's not really relevant to anything, just a (to me) interesting factoid, so I figure it's good for this thread.


----------



## Mannahnin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> In researching a thing for a _Call of Cthulhu_ thing, I found out that the Crown of Castile, a separate crown principality in the region of Spain, was still independent as late as 1715. I find it mind-blowing that Europe's "big kingdoms" hadn't settled yet by that point. It's not really relevant to anything, just a (to me) interesting factoid, so I figure it's good for this thread.



Sunday in our Pendragon game we blew a player's mind repeatedly, who had apparently never heard of Hadrian's Wall, and also didn't know that Germany as a country only dates back to around the 1870s.


----------



## trappedslider

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> In researching a thing for a _Call of Cthulhu_ thing, I found out that the Crown of Castile, a separate crown principality in the region of Spain, was still independent as late as 1715. I find it mind-blowing that Europe's "big kingdoms" hadn't settled yet by that point. It's not really relevant to anything, just a (to me) interesting factoid, so I figure it's good for this thread.



But do you know about the Duchy of Grand Fenwick?


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> But do you know about the Duchy of Grand Fenwick?



Yes, but they're pretty impotent.

...so long as they don't get nukes...


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Yes, but they're pretty impotent.
> 
> ...so long as they don't get nukes...



They have a Q Bomb.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> They have a Q Bomb.



He meant well


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

There are threads I just want to go back into, but then ...


----------



## dragoner

I think people have unrealistic expectations, not just in gaming either ...


----------



## Malmuria

Keats and Yeats are on their side, Wilde is on mine


----------



## prabe

Malmuria said:


> Keats and Yeats are on their side, Wilde is on mine



You win.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> Keats and Yeats are on their side, Wilde is on mine




Well, if a double-decker bus crashes into us- to die by your side, Malmuria, the pleasure, the privilege? It's mine.


----------



## dragoner

Too bad about Morrisey


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

dragoner said:


> Too bad about Morrisey




Have to admit, if you told me in the 80s that Moz would go full fascist (or even a little) ... I don't think I _could_ believe it.


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Have to admit, if you told me in the 80s that Moz would go full fascist (or even a little) ... I don't think I _could_ believe it.



As a south asian morrisey fan, there was one particular song that I used to just skip everytime...


----------



## dragoner

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Have to admit, if you told me in the 80s that Moz would go full fascist (or even a little) ... I don't think I _could_ believe it.



I really really liked Marr's guitar in How Soon Is Now? Though many of my British friends had said Morrissey was bad news before the news broke.


----------



## dragoner

What about a ...
Now with more than a reply to a thread, except w/hidden rpg content!


----------



## South by Southwest

_"There is no virtue in snark."_

^^ There are days on which I have to keep reminding myself of this. It has never, ever, ever made me a better person. I have never seen it do so for anyone else. I mean, it's fun, but it builds no virtues.


----------



## CleverNickName

Meh, "virtue" is overrated.
-Elon Musk, probably


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

South by Southwest said:


> _"There is no virtue in snark."_
> 
> ^^ There are days on which I have to keep reminding myself of this. It has never, ever, ever made me a better person. I have never seen it do so for anyone else. I mean, it's fun, but it builds no virtues.




Oh, there is no harm in snark.

It is the _boojum_ you have to worry about.


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> Fun Facts:
> The earliest English Muffins contained nooks but no crannies.




 Actual real fact: The threaded metal screw was invented in _*1775*_. It became mass-producible in 1779 when the screw-turning lathe was invented.

 Metal screws are older than America. That one kinda bugged me out a bit when I found out.


----------



## South by Southwest

dragoner said:


> What about a ...
> Now with more than a reply to a thread, except w/hidden rpg content!



Wait, are we doing RPG-themed music in here? _ I've got one, I've got one, I've got one!_ It's twice the length it should be, but it's not bad for a third-string 70s rock band:


----------



## payn

My next campaign needs a theme song like this;


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> My next campaign needs a theme song like this;



Those guys completely took off after _Public Enemy_ got to them.


----------



## dragoner

South by Southwest said:


> Wait, are we doing RPG-themed music in here? _ I've got one, I've got one, I've got one!_ It's twice the length it should be, but it's not bad for a third-string 70s rock band:



Indeed it was a comment of a thread about rangers, and then I threw the capture from 2300 in there, because nothing says the future like Night Ranger and Jane Child


----------



## Mad_Jack

South by Southwest said:


> Wait, are we doing RPG-themed music in here? _ I've got one, I've got one, I've got one!_ It's twice the length it should be, but it's not bad for a third-string 70s rock band:




 The only 4E character I really got to play was partly inspired by Molly Hatchet - I was converting a 3.5 ranger dual-wielding hand axes into 4e and didn't particularly have a personality in mind for the character who was male at the time. However, I was reading up on the Lizzie Borden story when Molly Hatchet's "Fall of the Peacemakers" came on and I was particularly struck by the line, "Stop the madness"... And suddenly, I had a two-page backstory about Molly Borden, a borderline psychotic young woman from a family haunted by a six-generation-long history of murder and madness, who still carried the family heirloom hatchet she'd killed her abusive parents with as a teenager. I left the exact nature of the family's "curse" open to DM interpretation as to whether it was caused by a history of mental illness or by being controlled and corrupted by the (possibly evil, possibly sentient) magical axe that had been passed down through the family.

It's fun playing a character who has trouble remembering that the solution to every problem isn't to hit it with an axe until the problem goes away.


----------



## Cadence

Is Detroit imaginary like New Zealand?









						Greektown Menu - Pizza Cat
					

Downtown Detroit's Menu - Pizza, wings, bagels, cocktails




					pizzacat.com


----------



## hawkeyefan

Cadence said:


> Is Detroit imaginary like New Zealand?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greektown Menu - Pizza Cat
> 
> 
> Downtown Detroit's Menu - Pizza, wings, bagels, cocktails
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pizzacat.com




Yes. It is the Mordor to New Zealand’s Gondor.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Is Detroit imaginary like New Zealand?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greektown Menu - Pizza Cat
> 
> 
> Downtown Detroit's Menu - Pizza, wings, bagels, cocktails
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pizzacat.com



Not exactly, no. I've been to Detroit; I've never been to New Zealand.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> Is Detroit imaginary like New Zealand?




 It's not imaginary, just an urban legend.


----------



## el-remmen

Speaking of D&D-themed music, I had lore in my old homebrew based on this song by Suzanne Vega.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> Speaking of D&D-themed music, I had lore in my old homebrew based on this song by Suzanne Vega.



I based a whole adventure for "Dark Conspiracy" on the lyrics of "Twilight Zone" by Golden Earring. No one caught on. Wish that I still had the text of that around.


----------



## trappedslider

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.


----------



## el-remmen

I've got another T/F poll queued up for tomorrow - but after that I am still trying to figure it out. I keep getting inspired by things I read in various threads, but still have not learned the lesson of writing it down immediately. . . and thus I forget and have to browse back through threads to try to get re-inspired. Never works.


----------



## South by Southwest

trappedslider said:


> It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.



Even before I discovered Basic D&D first there was Zork.


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> I've got another T/F poll queued up for tomorrow - but after that I am still trying to figure it out. I keep getting inspired by things I read in various threads, but still have not learned the lesson of writing it down immediately. . . and thus I forget and have to browse back through threads to try to get re-inspired. Never works.




Poll: "True or False: I have learned the lesson of writing down ideas immediately."

.


----------



## el-remmen

J.Quondam said:


> Poll: "True or False: I have learned the lesson of writing down ideas immediately."
> 
> .


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

J.Quondam said:


> Poll: "True or False: I have learned the lesson of writing down ideas immediately."



False. But, thankfully, I often come up with ideas I forgot to write down *again *a few days after I forgot them. 

This literally just happened to me today. Two weeks ago I had an idea for an Undead monster that was a giant cancerous tumor that killed the person it came from. I didn't write that down, so I forgot it, but then I just remembered the idea today.


----------



## Raunalyn

Having grown up with a father who was a narcissist (and an ex-wife as well), an almost sure sign that you are dealing with one in any argument is when the other person says, "Get over it!" or "Let it go!"

No one can tell another person how to feel or when they should resolve feelings they may have. Narcissists like to use those phrases because, in their self absorbed little minds, they no longer have to take responsibility for the action (s) that may have harmed the person they say that to.


----------



## el-remmen

Next poll is up - still haven't recalled the remaining two I'd come up with.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Next poll is up - still haven't recalled the remaining two I'd come up with.




I finally figured out your master plot!

_El-Remmen Presents the New Appendix T: The Nomenclature of Poll-Arms_


----------



## CleverNickName

The Venn Diagram of "People Who Don't Play 5E D&D" and "People Who Think 6E D&D Is Coming Soon" is basically a circle, isn't it?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> The Venn Diagram of "People Who Don't Play 5E D&D" and "People Who Think 6E D&D Is Coming Soon" is basically a circle, isn't it?



Might also line up with folks who think 6E will just be 4E reissued.


----------



## payn

Sadly, a thread celebrating a games 45th anniversary has turned into a how much it sucks buffet.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Sadly, a thread celebrating a games 45th anniversary has turned into a how much it sucks buffet.




_THE INTERNET!_

(Always said the same way you say, "The Aristocrats!")


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Sadly, a thread celebrating a games 45th anniversary has turned into a how much it sucks buffet.



Sadly, but also predictably.

There is always That Guy in the thread who can't imagine anyone enjoying something he doesn't, and therefore tries to ruin as much enjoyment as possible for everyone around him.  "I can't believe people still listen to Buddy Holly, ugh, that so-called _musick _is just so lame, blah blah blah, here's my 4,000-word essay on why you're terrible for liking it."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Sadly, but also predictably.
> 
> There is always That Guy in the thread who can't imagine anyone enjoying something he doesn't, and therefore tries to ruin as much enjoyment as possible for everyone around him.  "I can't believe people still listen to Buddy Holly, ugh, that so-called _musick _is just so lame, blah blah blah, here's my 4,000-word essay on why you're terrible for liking it."




Hey.... there's nothing wrong with 4,000-word essays.

Right?

_My life is a lie .... sob_


----------



## dragoner

payn said:


> Sadly, a thread celebrating a games 45th anniversary has turned into a how much it sucks buffet.



Needless to say, I don't want to step in and say my _Solis_ has transhumanism (more in the vein of Zoltan Istvan and life extension though), etc..


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> Needless to say, I don't want to step in and say my _Solis_ has transhumanism (more in the vein of Zoltan Istvan and life extension though), etc..



lol, yeah im waiting for somebody to say "my favorite sci-fi game" to be followed by a handful of posts saying, "I've never really considered Traveller to be a sci-fi game..."


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hey.... there's nothing wrong with 4,000-word essays.
> 
> Right?



Of course not!  It's only the 4,000-word essays titled "How Dare You Like Something I Don't" that wreck my blood pressure.


----------



## dragoner

payn said:


> lol, yeah im waiting for somebody to say "my favorite sci-fi game" to be followed by a handful of posts saying, "I've never really considered Traveller to be a sci-fi game..."



That is sort of another thing is that they aren't arguing about Traveller as much as the _Third Imperium_ which while is the official setting, only about half of Traveller players use it. I showed my latest work in progress map in the Traveller fb group and got hundreds of likes, and it is near future, real stars, totally different setting.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Of course not!  It's only the 4,000-word essays titled "How Dare You Like Something I Don't" that wreck my blood pressure.




Well, as a courtesy to your blood pressure, I am not going to post my thoughts on store-bought spiced rum. 

Although I do think it would probably pair well with pineapple pizza.


----------



## el-remmen

I sincerely feel sad for certain posters whose every post is about how terrible players are and they can't be trusted and are always trying to find a way to cheat or bend the rules to the detriment of the game and the DM's fun.  Simultaneously, however, I can't help but snicker at the fact that if someone is consistently having these experiences, maybe it is just them.


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> That is sort of another thing is that they aren't arguing about Traveller as much as the _Third Imperium_ which while is the official setting, only about half of Traveller players use it. I showed my latest work in progress map in the Traveller fb group and got hundreds of likes, and it is near future, real stars, totally different setting.



This is sort of what im talking about. Everyone has their "best Traveller version" and often the nitpicks are not that germane to discussion about the game in general.


----------



## Ryujin

I just wish that the "Spinward Traveller" film had actually come to pass, but that's another discussion


----------



## el-remmen

Also, a lot of people's responses to certain game ideas seem to boil down to "How dare you try to run a game style I wouldn't want to play?"


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Also, a lot of people's responses to certain game ideas seem to boil down to "How dare you try to run a game style I wouldn't want to play in?"



Right, or "the game isn't supposed to be played this way..."


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Right, or "the game isn't supposed to be played this way..."



Or this old chestnut,  "You should just play something else instead."

SO tired of hearing that.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Or this old chestnut,  "You should just play something else instead."
> 
> SO tired of hearing that.



Depends on how the OP is constructed. If the OP is asking for opinions on how to do something, I think its fair game. If the OP specifically says they want x,y,z, then is inappropriate to hijack with an a,b,c instead posting. Some folks are good about this, others not so much.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Depends on how the OP is constructed. If the OP is asking for opinions on how to do something, I think its fair game. If the OP specifically says they want x,y,z, then is inappropriate to hijack with an a,b,c instead posting. Some folks are good about this, others not so much.



It just makes my eye twitch whenever someone opens a Dungeons & Dragons thread, sees the "5E" tag on it, (presumably) reads a comment about a 5th Edition D&D house rule, and then decides to respond with "just play something else." 0% helpful.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Sadly, a thread celebrating a games 45th anniversary has turned into a how much it sucks buffet.



TO be fair, that's how I felt on my 45th brthday.


----------



## dragoner

payn said:


> This is sort of what im talking about. Everyone has their "best Traveller version" and often the nitpicks are not that germane to discussion about the game in general.



The version there is Classic, I hate to have every discussion hijacked by 3i people too.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> TO be fair, that's how I felt on my 45th brthday.



Oh great, so I have that to look forward to in a few years...

I guess Traveller threads are just my preparation


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> It just makes my eye twitch whenever someone opens a Dungeons & Dragons thread, sees the "5E" tag on it, (presumably) reads a comment about a 5th Edition D&D house rule, and then decides to respond with "just play something else." 0% helpful.



Those headings can easily be overlooked. I did it a few times in the past and got (correctly) burned for being out of line. Now, I always check to see what the heading is, along with reading the OP closely. So, I've taken to reminding folks when they seem to be jumping tangent of the topics source and/or OP request. I know that can be exhausting, but constructing the best possible OP also helps a lot in this.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> I just wish that the "Spinward Traveller" film had actually come to pass, but that's another discussion



Ken Whitman rip off ... I doubt it was going to happen.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Oh great, so I have that to look forward to in a few years...



Oh absolutely! And remember: one doesn't just delicately pick and choose from the "it sucks buffet." Done properly, one sticks one whole snout in ranch dressing of melancholia and utterly _wallows_ in it, blowing bubble the whole way along.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> Ken Whitman rip off ... I doubt it was going to happen.



To be fair all of that came down in close succession, so it was tough to pick up at the time. One of my friends was cast in it and got burnt, along with everyone else.


----------



## dragoner

I think a lot of discussions suffer from Boss Baby syndrome.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> To be fair all of that came down in close succession, so it was tough to pick up at the time. One of my friends was cast in it and got burnt, along with everyone else.



I mean, I was there, following it, the worst was that Marc endorsed it.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> I mean, I was there, following it, the worst was that Marc endorsed it.



Everyone got sucked in. KotDT creator Jolly, too. Like I said, it happened pretty quickly. And don't get Ben started on use of his, and his company's (at the time) name.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> Everyone got sucked in. KotDT creator Jolly, too. Like I said, it happened pretty quickly. And don't get Ben started on the his of his, and his company's (at the time) name.



Yes, and then Whitman was acting like he was big in Hollywood or something, pretty odd. I don't know about his tenure with GenCon.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> Yes, and then Whitman was acting like he was big in Hollywood or something, pretty odd. I don't know about his tenure with GenCon.



His biggest claim to fame seems to be being int he background of certain "The Walking Dead" episodes.

_EDIT_ I'm talking avbout Ben Dobyns of Zombie Orpheus Entertainment. Whitman used his name in funding KotDT.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> His biggest claim to fame seems to be being int he background of certain "The Walking Dead" episodes.
> 
> _EDIT_ I'm talking avbout Ben Dobyns of Zombie Orpheus Entertainment. Whitman used his name in funding KotDT.



See, I don't know anything about that, just that Whitman was with GenCon for a while, then did the things with kotdt, and finally spinward traveller, though in the interim, he released traveller pencils, and to Marc's credit, Whitman had done T4 as Imperium games.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Oh absolutely! And remember: one doesn't just delicately pick and choose from the "it sucks buffet." Done properly, one sticks one whole snout in ranch dressing of melancholia and utterly _wallows_ in it, blowing bubble the whole way along.




Topic for Discussion:

Ranch Dressing is the Jerry Springer Show of salad dressings.


----------



## dragoner

It's good on pizza ... _pineapple pizza._


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Topic for Discussion:
> 
> Ranch Dressing is the Jerry Springer Show of salad dressings.



Way too bland for that title.


----------



## dragoner




----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> See, I don't know anything about that, just that Whitman was with GenCon for a while, then did the things with kotdt, and finally spinward traveller, though in the interim, he released traveller pencils, and to Marc's credit, Whitman had done T4 as Imperium games.



I talked to Ben about it and he's got a paper trail. ZOE also tried to make good on the film for the KotDT backers, because they got sucked into it, but the original material just wasn't there (despite Ken's statements that all of it was).


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Topic for Discussion:
> 
> Ranch Dressing is the Jerry Springer Show of salad dressings.




The new TSR  is the Miracle Whip of salad dressings.




(note the empty jar)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Well, Tony Pizza is better than ... _SOUR MEAT._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> The new TSR  is the Miracle Whip of salad dressings.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> I talked to Ben about it and he's got a paper trail. ZOE also tried to make good on the film for the KotDT backers, because they got sucked into it, but the original material just wasn't there (despite Ken's statements that all of it was).



I also heard they did make something of spinward traveller, I only saw some test reel of something, though.


----------



## Ryujin

Probably best if I just post a link and we move on, rather than continuing the discussion here. I will say that with the rights having reverted ZOE has been developing a KotDT film for a few years now though no idea what stage it's at, or if it has been shelved.






						Ken Whitman Responds to KODTLAS Release « A Walk in the Dark
					






					rpg.brainclouds.net


----------



## CleverNickName

(from this old thread.)


----------



## dragoner

I don't think you'll every see anything like that from spinward traveller, and tbh, I thought it all looked terrible anyways.


----------



## dragoner

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 255994
> (from this old thread.)



Though this is sort of the boss baby thing, you can't talk about dnd w/o having fr fans troll the convo.


----------



## CleverNickName

dragoner said:


> Though this is sort of the boss baby thing, you can't talk about dnd w/o having fr fans troll the convo.



Unfortunately yes.  

I created that meme as a fancy way of saying "like an ice cream sundae, you can fill a D&D world with whatever you want," and....well, it had predictable results.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Topic for discussion, part 2:

What if D&D Editions were ... _automobiles_?

*OD&D (incl. Holmes Basic): *MGA 1500.

*Basic (Moldvay, Mentzer, etc.): *Chrysler K-Car. 

*AD&D: *'77 Pontiac Firebird.

*2e: *90s Ford Taurus. 

*3e (and PF): *2000 Honda Accord.

*4e: *Toyota Prius.

*5e: *SUV/Crossover.


----------



## dragoner

CleverNickName said:


> Unfortunately yes.
> 
> I created that meme as a fancy way of saying "like an ice cream sundae, you can fill a D&D world with whatever you want," and....well, it had predictable results.



Yes, I have noticed that with a lot of games, that to some people a setting, usually the current one, is _the game _and nothing else exists.


----------



## Malmuria

For all the bluster, when you describe the actual game is seems really boring and mundane.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Topic for discussion, part 2:
> 
> What if D&D Editions were ... _automobiles_?
> 
> *OD&D (incl. Holmes Basic): *MGA 1500.
> 
> *Basic (Moldvay, Mentzer, etc.): *Chrysler K-Car.
> 
> *AD&D: *'77 Pontiac Firebird.
> 
> *2e: *90s Ford Taurus.
> 
> *3e (and PF): *2000 Honda Accord.
> 
> *4e: *Toyota Prius.
> 
> *5e: *SUV/Crossover.



*2E:* 






*3E:*





*4E:*





*5E:*


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> *2E:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *3E:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4E:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *5E:*




D&D isn't .... *RED!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> *2E:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *3E:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4E:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *5E:*



That's... that's actually a pretty reasonable visual analogy. I'm impressed.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> That's... that's actually a pretty reasonable visual analogy. I'm impressed.



Thanks, I just thought up some descriptions too.

2E: Same pickup, but now with auto transmission, am/fm stereo, and seat belts.
3E: Same pickup, but now with plastic trim, custom ground effects, and bug shields. All kinds of expensive crap that doesn't improve the performance but looks cool AF.
4E: Almost same pickup, but loses the open bed in favor of all weather protection and additional comfort seating for passengers.
5E; Hybrid pickup, restores the open bed, but with a smaller box, and stretched the cab out for additional comfort seating.


----------



## dragoner

Just bought Tasha's and Radiant Citadel, authentic enough?


----------



## dragoner

dragoner said:


> Just bought Tasha's and Radiant Citadel, authentic enough?



Oh yeah, forgot, also bought a ticket to gencon.


----------



## billd91

dragoner said:


> Oh yeah, forgot, also bought a ticket to gencon.


----------



## Ondath

Can we use this thread if we're trying to resist the impulse to interact with awful people outside the forums? I am this close to writing a tweet and starting a needless interaction and I need to stop myself from doing that.

Also, question to people in the forums who are not native speakers of English: Do you run the game in English? Entirely in your own language? In a weird mix of both? I'm in the third camp and I always get an urge to do a full, proper translation of the 5E SRD just so the game can be run without linguistic weirdness, but the task always seems too big so I abandon it before I start. What are people's experiences playing English TTRPGs in other languages?


----------



## dragoner

I'm ESL, except live in America, so I run it in English; also in my group is a Mexican guy, and Lebanese woman, so I am not the only one.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ondath said:


> Can we use this thread if we're trying to resist the impulse to interact with awful people outside the forums? I am this close to writing a tweet and starting a needless interaction and I need to stop myself from doing that.




This thread is for whatever you need.

And pizza.


----------



## Ondath

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This thread is for whatever you need.
> 
> And pizza.



That's redundant, since everyone always needs pizza!


----------



## payn

Ondath said:


> That's redundant, since everyone always needs pizza!



With pineapple!


----------



## Ondath

payn said:


> With pineapple!



I used to be *very* anti-pineapple on pizza, but my partner actually likes it and argues that I fail to make a clear point on why it's bad. So I've had to tone down my views...

Still, _yuck_.


----------



## Ryujin

Things that my country will not accept the blame for:


Avril Lavigne
Justin Beiber
Jim Carrey's ultimate evolution
Celine Dion
Those crappy holiday love story movies that are all shot in Almonte, Ontario

Things that my country will accept credit for:

Pineapple on pizza
Any movie or TV show that has Vancouver or Toronto pretending to be a US city

Other items to be considered on a case-by-case basis.


----------



## billd91

Ryujin said:


> Those crappy holiday love story movies that are all shot in Almonte, Ontario



There *will* be a reckoning for these!


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Things that my country will not accept the blame for:
> 
> 
> Avril Lavigne
> Justin Beiber
> Jim Carrey's ultimate evolution
> Celine Dion
> Those crappy holiday love story movies that are all shot in Almonte, Ontario
> 
> Things that my country will accept credit for:
> 
> Pineapple on pizza
> Any movie or TV show that has Vancouver or Toronto pretending to be a US city
> 
> Other items to be considered on a case-by-case basis.



What about Nickleback?


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> What about Nickleback?



I'd forgotten they were Canadian.
And this is how you remind me?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Ryujin said:


> Any movie or TV show that has Vancouver or Toronto pretending to be a US city











						Canada Does Not Exist - TV Tropes
					

Canada Does Not Exist is a strange, location-based trope distantly related to Where the Hell Is Springfield?. It's where a cross-border production between Canada and the United States refuses to acknowledge that it's set in either country, and …




					tvtropes.org


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> What about Nickleback?



We take credit for them. If everyone truly hated them, how did they sell all of those albums?


----------



## Ryujin

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Canada Does Not Exist - TV Tropes
> 
> 
> Canada Does Not Exist is a strange, location-based trope distantly related to Where the Hell Is Springfield?. It's where a cross-border production between Canada and the United States refuses to acknowledge that it's set in either country, and …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tvtropes.org



Do you know how many times I saw the black SUVs from "Flashpoint" speeding by on Yonge Street, in downtown Toronto? Well.... it was a lot! OK, several. As far as I know they never even mentioned Canada.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> There *will* be a reckoning for these!



< Shhhhhhhhhh! >



Spoiler


----------



## trappedslider

Recent news: You knock off a hostile leader, all you’ve done is given everyone under that guy an instant promotion. Which is another way of saying, you never get rid of the leaders on the other side because there’s always some new schmuck ready to step up and take the last guy’s place.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> Recent news: You knock off a hostile leader, all you’ve done is given everyone under that guy an instant promotion. Which is another way of saying, you never get rid of the leaders on the other side because there’s always some new schmuck ready to step up and take the last guy’s place.



That's why you have to compromise the next guy in line, so have leverage before you knock off the current guy. That's like politics 101.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Recent news: You knock off a hostile leader, all you’ve done is given everyone under that guy an instant promotion. Which is another way of saying, you never get rid of the leaders on the other side because there’s always some new schmuck ready to step up and take the last guy’s place.











						Star Trek Tos GIF - Star Trek TOS Mirror Universe - Discover & Share GIFs
					

Click to view the GIF




					tenor.com


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> That's why you have to compromise the next guy in line, so have leverage before you knock off the current guy. That's like politics 101.



Hard to do that if they are all hiding.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Star Trek Tos GIF - Star Trek TOS Mirror Universe - Discover & Share GIFs
> 
> 
> Click to view the GIF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tenor.com



Is that Gif not in the site's database?


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> Hard to do that if they are all hiding.



That's why you got _Gray Men_ yo!


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Is that Gif not in the site's database?



Not a clue, so I went to Tenor.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Topic for discussion, part 2:
> 
> *AD&D: *'77 Pontiac Firebird.



Can it at least be a Trans Am so it has the firebird on it?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hey.... there's nothing wrong with 4,000-word essays.




 I prefer to take some small pleasure in the fact that somebody wasted that much time trying to futilely convince me I'm wrong.


----------



## Hussar

Brevity is the soul of wit?


----------



## payn

Sandbox go around time again?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Sandbox go around time again?









Alright alright alright!

The names of the commenters may change, but the song remains the same.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Alright alright alright!
> 
> The names of the commenters may change, but the song remains the same.



I know...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I know...




I was going to suggest that you start a thread, payn. Here's my suggestion-

_How about a Warlord for 5e?_

You know you want to!


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## el-remmen

Here we go. . .


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Me, reading certain comments ...


----------



## CleverNickName

I was gonna post this in that psionics thread, but (checks title of this thread)




"Now psionics works _just like how I remember!_"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> "Now psionics works _just like how I remember!_"




The AD&D (1e) psionics system. A system so awesome no one could use it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*Tuesday Cocktails with SZ*

Today, we will be look at the New Jersey Iced Tea, an old favorite of the Zagyg Family usually enjoyed during festive holidays.

Ingredients
1 1/2 ounce vodka
1 1/2 ounce rum
1 1/2 ounce tequila
1 1/2 ounce gin
1 1/2 ounce triple sec (preferably Cointreau)
1 ounce simple syrup
1 ounce lemon juice
Coca-Cola
Lemon Wedge

Directions
1. Pour vodka, rum, tequila, gin, triple sec into separate shot glasses.
2. Pour simple syrup, lemon juice, Coca-cola into large tumbler.
3. Scream, "You're not the boss of me!" and pound the shots as quickly as possible.
4. Suck on the lemon wedge.
5. While saying, "You never loved me," throw the contents of the tumbler into the face of the closest family member.
6. Repeat.


----------



## South by Southwest

Hussar said:


> Brevity is the soul of wit?



Then we are a soulless lot around here.

Not humorless, though.


----------



## dragoner

el-remmen said:


> Here we go. . .



I used this gif in a discussion of why the aliens are interested in us: "it's because the way we feel joy."


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *Tuesday Cocktails with SZ*
> 
> Today, we will be look at the New Jersey Iced Tea, an old favorite of the Zagyg Family usually enjoyed during festive holidays.
> 
> Ingredients
> 1 1/2 ounce vodka
> 1 1/2 ounce rum
> 1 1/2 ounce tequila
> 1 1/2 ounce gin
> 1 1/2 ounce triple sec (preferably Cointreau)
> 1 ounce simple syrup
> 1 ounce lemon juice
> Coca-Cola
> Lemon Wedge
> 
> Directions
> 1. Pour vodka, rum, tequila, gin, triple sec into separate shot glasses.
> 2. Pour simple syrup, lemon juice, Coca-cola into large tumbler.
> 3. Scream, "You're not the boss of me!" and pound the shots as quickly as possible.
> 4. Suck on the lemon wedge.
> 5. While saying, "You never loved me," throw the contents of the tumbler into the face of the closest family member.
> 6. Repeat.



We have a similar recipe, but I use diet soda since I hate it so much. Family calls for extra seething.


----------



## payn

Seems that generational swipes are now the comment du jour.


----------



## Gradine

I don't know, it seems to me that empathy would be a pretty key aspect of human virtue? Or am I the naughty word for caring about other people?


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Seems that generational swipes are now the comment du jour.



Could be worse. They could be coming au jus.


----------



## dragoner

Holey moley, people saying racist stuff are getting called racist? Oh my pampered pet of privilege.


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> Seems that generational swipes are now the comment du jour.



tell me about, the other day i looked at some comments on a yahoo article about how companies are changing to meet the wants of Gen Z, and all of the comments were complaining about how soft the generation is and how the woman the article led with the job wasn't a real job and so on.









						Gen Z Knows What It Wants From Employers. And Employers Want Them.
					

Danielle Ross is a 26-year-old who lives in a small town in upstate New York. She describes herself as artistic and creative. She paints in her free time, and she has worked as a mermaid for children’s parties, swimming in a tail she made herself. Ross, who identifies as LGBTQ, couldn’t imagine...




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## CleverNickName

Another meme that might cause an explosion if I posted it in that other thread:





Maybe someone (else) should just start a "D&D Memes" thread.


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> Another meme that might cause an explosion if I posted it in that other thread:
> View attachment 256134
> 
> Maybe someone (else) should just start a "D&D Memes" thread.



what an inauthentic cow!


----------



## Malmuria

It is August, 2022.  That means we have at least 17 more months of speculation and argument about the 2024 edition of dnd.


----------



## payn




----------



## dragoner

Malmuria said:


> what an inauthentic cow!



So it's like uh "Fake Gamer Cow?" 

I'll get my coat.


----------



## CleverNickName

Malmuria said:


> what an inauthentic cow!



Hey watch it--it's a _sacred _cow!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

A visual representation of my authentic choice to participate in some threads…


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## CleverNickName

I call this piece,
"CleverHouseRules"


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Seems that generational swipes are now the comment du jour.




A few weeks ago everything was "well, in my 40 years of playing...".

Which, given the number of folks who have 41+ years on here, was an odd flex ;-)


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> A visual representation of my authentic choice to participate in some threads…



Speaking of biking, I cut my 25 miles today down to 15. 106 heat index here in MPLS. How the hell y'all doing down south???


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Speaking of biking, I cut my 25 miles today down to 15. 106 heat index here in MPLS. How the hell y'all doing down south???




Just spent the annual week up in northern Wisconsin where the week's high this year was 77, and it got down to the 40s at least one night

Back in SC today... And like every year this happens it feels like hell (until I reaclimatize  and remember the plants start blooming in February and we probably get a month worth of days in the 30s combined for the entire winter).


----------



## South by Southwest

I move to the very edge between Indiana and Michigan this Thursday; proper winter is one of the principal things with which I hope to reacquaint.


----------



## dragoner

You will also get lake effects.


----------



## South by Southwest

dragoner said:


> You will also get lake effects.



The more, the merrier.


----------



## Cadence

South by Southwest said:


> I move to the very edge between Indiana and Michigan this Thursday; proper winter is one of the principal things with which I hope to reacquaint.



I get two weeks around Christmas with family in northernmost Illinois... that's enough winter for me 

A great Aunt up in northern Wisconsin used to tell of how they went to school until it was 28 below.  School would close and they'd go out to play.  (Of course she was 100% Finn and I've only got 25%).


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Just spent the annual week up in northern Wisconsin where the week's high this year was 77, and it got down to the 40s at least one night
> 
> Back in SC today... And like every year this happens it feels like hell (until I reaclimatize  and remember the plants start blooming in February and we probably get a month worth of days in the 30s combined for the entire winter).



You must have really been up there. Probably not Bayfield?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> You must have really been up there. Probably not Bayfield?




Not quite that north, and a bit east...Eagle River.


----------



## Hussar

It is so weird.  Bayfield is a small town in Ontario Canada too.  It almost seems like the original settlers just couldn't be asked to think of original names of places.  How many Paris are there?  Same twenty names over and over again.  

Meanwhile our fantasy worlds have ten bajillion names that look like someone sneezed a Scrabble set.


----------



## Cadence

Hussar said:


> It is so weird.  Bayfield is a small town in Ontario Canada too.  It almost seems like the original settlers just couldn't be asked to think of original names of places.  How many Paris are there?  Same twenty names over and over again.
> 
> Meanwhile our fantasy worlds have ten bajillion names that look like someone sneezed a Scrabble set.




We were in Eagle River, WI last year for a funeral, and a call came into the hotel desk while we were standing there.  Someone couldn't find the hotel and the directions the person at the desk was giving didn't help.

Needless to say there is also an Eagle River in Alaska.


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> I get two weeks around Christmas with family in northernmost Illinois... that's enough winter for me
> 
> A great Aunt up in northern Wisconsin used to tell of how they went to school until it was 28 below.  School would close and they'd go out to play.  (Of course she was 100% Finn and I've only got 25%).



Dude, like Dave Barry with his exploding whale story, _I absolutely am not making this up_: my first professor gig was in St. Paul, MN for three years before moving here. I think it was on my second winter there sometime in January that I stepped outside of my apartment on Grand Ave. in St. Paul to take out the recycling (midnight or thereabouts); as soon as I stepped outside, my eyes hurt because the cold air was aggressively trying to freeze the fluid in them. I immediately "noped" right out of the midnight recycling jaunt, went back inside, and did the recycling the next day after teaching. The local weather reporter said overnight it had been 60 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

Freaked me out.


----------



## payn

Like trying to find out which Springfield the Simpsons are from.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Dude, like Dave Barry with his exploding whale story, _I absolutely am not making this up_: my first professor gig was in St. Paul, MN for three years before moving here. I think it was on my second winter there sometime in January that I stepped outside of my apartment on Grand Ave. in St. Paul to take out the recycling (midnight or thereabouts); as soon as I stepped outside, my eyes hurt because the cold air was aggressively trying to freeze the fluid in them. I immediately "noped" right out of the midnight recycling jaunt, went back inside, and did the recycling the next day after teaching. The local weather reporter said overnight it had been 60 degrees below freezing, Fahrenheit.
> 
> Freaked me out.



Ah, yeah I remember those days. Winters are not quite like that here no more.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Ah, yeah I remember those days. Winters are not quite like that here no more.



Really? It's calmed down a bit?


----------



## South by Southwest

And it's true--Dave Barry absolutely was not making that incident up; in fact, it's all on video:


----------



## Raunalyn

South by Southwest said:


> Really? It's calmed down a bit?



Somewhat...

I moved up here in 2012. I remember the winter of 2014...we dropped down to -50 degrees (mind you, that was with wind chill). I remember walking from my car across the parking lot to the building where I work and my eyeballs freezing. It was not a pleasant sensation.

And then my friend, who was living in Alaska, sent me a picture of the temperature there...it was 28 degrees. And then he sent me the temp on Mars.

Mars was warmer.

It still gets really cold, but I don't think it's gotten that cold since 2014.


----------



## dragoner

I like cold myself, I think the coldest I ever felt was around -60 or so.


----------



## trappedslider

I have an awesome idea let's make a 90 million dollar movie full production, everything, and then decide not to release it.


----------



## trappedslider

Just realized that in both Dr. strange films 



Spoiler



the villains just got convinced to quit because they were too powerful to beat conventionally. Both Dormammu and Wanda were way too powerful to beat, so both were placed in a position where their circumstances made them stop what they were doing and give up.

It’s just so exhausting to deal with doctor strange that it’s easier to just throw up your hands and say “screw it!”


----------



## payn

Cmon man, spoilers! Keep that sh#$ to appropriate threads please.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> Really? It's calmed down a bit?



So, 25 years ago we used to have snow and temps around 10-20F in early November. Now, it usually doesn't get below 30F and we don't have any snow until mid-late December. January still gets pretty cold but usually not below -10F. So, yeah climate is a changin.


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> Cmon man, spoilers! Keep that sh#$ to appropriate threads please.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


>



I'll remember this next time you get upset that folks are not sticking to your OP.


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> I have an awesome idea let's make a 90 million dollar movie full production, everything, and then decide not to release it.



According to the BBC, the film "tested poorly" with audiences.  How much of a stinker does a film have to be for this to happen?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> According to the BBC, the film "tested poorly" with audiences.  How much of a stinker does a film have to be for this to happen?


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


>




*Mod Note:*
Oh, really?


----------



## trappedslider

Umbran said:


> *Mod Note:*
> Oh, really?


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


>




Yeah, fine.  Just make with the spoiler tags, please and thanks.


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> I'll remember this next time you get upset that folks are not sticking to your OP.



Fair enough lol


payn said:


>



Other outlets are saying that Studio insiders insist the decision to axe “Batgirl” was not driven by the quality of the film or the commitment of the filmmakers, but by the desire for the studio’s slate of DC features to be at a blockbuster scale. “Batgirl” was budgeted to screen in homes on HBO Max, and not for a major global release in theaters.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> According to the BBC, the film "tested poorly" with audiences.  How much of a stinker does a film have to be for this to happen?




I recommend the Hollywood Reporter article. This is ... more complicated.

Fundamentally, the issue is that the movie is both too expensive and not expensive enough... which, woah. But here's the basic gist-

Warner/HBO used to be a part of the Big Blue Ball of Death (AT&T). Now, that wasn't a perfect situation, but it meant that there was a of money flowing from AT&T to the subsidiaries to make movies and put lots of cool streaming stuff on HBOMax. Which showed- I mean, HBOMax was just churning out content. They also led the way in having real movies on streaming during COVID.

But then, disaster. AT&T sold off the HBO/Warner parts to Discovery, and now we have have Warner/Discovery. Except that the Discovery people were put in charge. And they don't have a lot of cash-flow. They've been looking for over $3 billion in savings.

Which has led to the following-
1. Brain drain as the HBO/Warner creative have been leaving.
2. Massive cancellations of projects. Everything from CW shows to HBOMax shows to TNT shows to movies in the pipeline.
3. A decision to "re-focus" on movies for theaters as cashcows, instead of the longer-term play on the streaming service.

So what happened with this? Well, it was originally going to be a "big budget" _streamer_ release- straight to HBOMax. But here's the thing- the new powers that be don't want to "tarnish" the DC Superhero movie universe by releasing these movies straight to streaming.

So ... why not just release it in theaters? Because it's "only" a 70 million dollar movie. It doesn't look as awesome as a big-budget tentpole movie should. And it would require extensive CGI and reshoots to bring it up to that quality ($$$$) as well as a massive marketing push (even more $$$$$) which Disco-Warner doesn't want to spend.

Which leads us to the position we are in now- $70 million up in flames.


----------



## Mannahnin

Umbran said:


> Yeah, fine.  Just make with the spoiler tags, please and thanks.



@trappedslider


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I recommend the Hollywood Reporter article. This is ... more complicated.
> 
> Fundamentally, the issue is that the movie is both too expensive and not expensive enough... which, woah. But here's the basic gist-
> [...]
> Which leads us to the position we are in now- $70 million up in flames.



It might also be that the "summer superhero movie" treadmill is slowing down.  (Or as I would put it, "friggin_' FINALLY slowing down, at long last, oh sweet merciful release."_)  For a while there, it felt like just about any comic-book movie would be green-lit by any studio in Hollywood, no matter how obscure the comic book was, or how tenuous the association.  Especially anything with the word "Bat" in the title.

But today, I learned that at least one multimillion-dollar BatMovie was considered too big of a risk to be released _after production._


----------



## el-remmen

*el-remmen's index of T/F polls*

I have never once worried about "encounters per day" when prepping D&D 5E
"As a DM I don't pay all that much attention (if any) to the PCs' remaining resources."
"As DM, I Know How All the PCs' Abilities, Spells, and Items Work"
"I Like to Play D&D on My Birthday"
"When DMing I Avoid Making the PCs have 'pointless' combats."
"The so-called '5-Minute Workday' is Something I've Seen Regularly Playing 5E D&D"
"I House Ruled Aspects of 5E or Chose to Use Options from the DMG Before I'd Ever Played or Run 5E"
"Tactics are an Important Part of D&D"
"When I Run D&D 5E, the Arc of the PCs' Adventures is 'Zero to Hero'." 
"When Starting Up a New Campaign I Always Have a Session #0"
"As a Player, I Alert the DM When I Notice Them Make a Mistake in the PCs Favor"
"When I DM, I Try to Make Sure to Lay Eyes on Every Roll My Players Make to Confirm It"
"My group uses Discord, Email, or some other form of chat to take care of in-game between-session logistics and/or role-playing."
"In My General Experience Playing D&D, DMs Care More About Setting Lore Than Players Do"
"When Running a 5E Campaign I Always Ban at Least One Core Race, Class, or Sub-Class"

10 away from a Survivor Thread!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> 10 away from a Survivor Thread!




Whoever made survivor threads a thing should be consigned to an eternal hell of pasta-on-pizza, players who love bards, and that guy who insists that Vodka cocktails are martinis.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Whoever made survivor threads a thing should be consigned to an eternal hell of pasta-on-pizza, players who love bards, and that guy who insists that Vodka cocktails are martinis.



As the current curator of the "5E Survivor" threads, I'll just


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> As the current curator of the "5E Survivor" threads, I'll just




Curator? Is that like a fancy name for an unpaid job that some evil person made you do?


----------



## CleverNickName

Seriously though, while we might never agree on pineapple as a pizza topping, I think we can all agree that:

There's no such thing as a "bard."  What most folks call a bard is really just a rogue who bought a lute.  Just like how a "paladin" is just a fighter who went to church (once), and a "gnome" is just a dwarf in a clown suit that knows card tricks.
A "martini" is 2.5 oz of gin, 0.5 oz of dry vermouth, and an olive.  _Any other formula is not a martini_.  This is Bartending 101, it's on the exam.  Yes, there is a bartending exam, and yes, this is one of the questions.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Seriously though, while we might never agree on pineapple as a pizza topping, I think we can all agree that:
> 
> There's no such thing as a "bard."  What most folks call a bard is really just a rogue who bought a lute.  Just like how a "paladin" is just a fighter who went to church (once), and a "gnome" is just a dwarf in a clown suit that knows card tricks.
> A "martini" is 2.5 oz of gin, 0.5 oz of dry vermouth, and an olive.  _Any other formula is not a martini_.  This is Bartending 101, it's on the exam.  Yes, there is a bartending exam, and yes, this is one of the questions.




Martinis are one of the few things that break the math of this cold and uncaring universe.

One is amazing.
Two are too many.
Three, alas ... three are never enough.


----------



## CleverNickName

_"I like to have a martini,
Two at the very most,
After three, I'm under the table,
After four, I'm under the host."_
-Dorothy Parker


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> But today, I learned that at least one multimillion-dollar BatMovie was considered too big of a risk to be released _after production._



Quick! unleash the bot army that helped get the good (IMO) version of the justice league movie released!

_

You all need to attend AA


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> _"I like to have a martini,
> Two at the very most,
> After three, I'm under the table,
> After four, I'm under the host."_
> -Dorothy Parker



Not _quite_ the way I remember it ...


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> Not _quite_ the way I remember it ...



It's true.  In 1967, Dorothy Parker plagiarized a popular limerick from a magazine.  The original version (published in 1959) goes like this:

_"I wish I could drink like a lady.
"Two or three," at the most.
But two, and I'm under the table--
And three, I'm under the host."_
(Author unknown)

Well, maybe "plagiarized" is a strong word...but there it is.  The 1959 version probably wasn't the original, either, so who's to say?

Also, Dorothy Parker famously preferred to drink scotch whiskey, not martinis.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> It's true.  In 1967, Dorothy Parker plagiarized a popular limerick from a magazine.  The original version (published in 1959) goes like this:
> 
> _"I wish I could drink like a lady.
> "Two or three," at the most.
> But two, and I'm under the table--
> And three, I'm under the host."_
> (Author unknown)
> 
> Well, maybe "plagiarized" is a strong word...but there it is.  The 1959 version probably wasn't the original, either, so who's to say?
> 
> Also, Dorothy Parker famously preferred to drink scotch whiskey, not martinis.



Yeah. I wasn't really calling you out hard. I learned it as ...

_I wish I could drink like a lady
I can have one or two at the most
Three and I'm under the table
Four and I'm under the host._

Same point, same joke.


----------



## Mannahnin

Speaking of martinis, I finally had one I really liked recently.

Bear in mind, I came to liking gin only within the last ten years, and prefer lighter, more citrus-forward versions for the most part.  I make and love a variety of gin cocktails*, but every time I order a martini I usually find that the balance is off or the gin just a bit too much to make a pleasant sipper.

The other night I had one at a restaurant and they used Grey Whale, and it was _perfect_. I should have asked what vermouth they use, though. 

*(Corpse Reviver #2, Gordon's Cup, French 75, Last Word, G&T, Bees Knees, Negroni, Gordon's Breakfast...)


----------



## payn

So, we managed to hit the balance topic and now rolled into linear fighter, quadratic wizard. Good thing this isn't a drinking game or Id be at the bottom of a bottle right now.


----------



## Cadence

Can we get him to use the defense lawyer that was in the news today?  I wonder if he handles IP cases?


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> So, we managed to hit the balance topic and now rolled into linear fighter, quadratic wizard. Good thing this isn't a drinking game or Id be at the bottom of a bottle right now.



This makes me wonder what a D&D _drinking _game would look like.
I'll be honest: none of the mental images I'm getting right now are appealing.  Like, at all.


----------



## Malmuria

payn said:


> So, we managed to hit the balance topic and now rolled into linear fighter, quadratic wizard. Good thing this isn't a drinking game or Id be at the bottom of a bottle right now.



I have never, not once, noticed or cared about the "martial-caster disparity" and whenever I see someone bring it up as the most important thing to them it makes me realize we are really playing different games.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Speaking of martinis, I finally had one I really liked recently.
> 
> Bear in mind, I came to liking gin only within the last ten years, and prefer lighter, more citrus-forward versions for the most part.  I make and love a variety of gin cocktails*, but every time I order a martini I usually find that the balance is off or the gin just a bit too much to make a pleasant sipper.
> 
> The other night I had one at a restaurant and they used Grey Whale, and it was _perfect_. I should have asked what vermouth they use, though.
> 
> *(Corpse Reviver #2, Gordon's Cup, French 75, Last Word, G&T, Bees Knees, *Negroni*, Gordon's Breakfast...)




Try the Cygroni (pronounced Chee-groni).

Just substitute the Campari for Cynar. Thank me for it later.


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> I have never, not once, noticed or cared about the "martial-caster disparity" and whenever I see someone bring it up as the most important thing to them it makes me realize we are really playing different games.



I see it, and different editions made it more or less painful. I dont like the paper, rock, scissor solutions many have for it. It's never been end of the world to me to roll with it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> This makes me wonder what a D&D _drinking _game would look like.
> I'll be honest: none of the mental images I'm getting right now are appealing.  Like, at all.




There was a time when, after a long night of partying, my roommate and I would be the last two standing. We would break out two d20s and play, _¿Quién es más macho?_ aka, the _Twenty-sided die game_.

The rules were simple.

1. Both people roll a d20.

2. The lower roll drinks the numerical difference. (If A rolls 17 and B rolls 12, then B drinks 5.)

3. If the two rolls are the same, then roll again and the loser drinks double the difference.

4. Continue until one person proclaims the other "Mas Macho" or until either person is unable to continue.

The odds that I would play that game now are approximately _hell to the no_.


----------



## trappedslider

all of you right now:


----------



## el-remmen

Sometimes I am wild and have a third beer over the the course of a night. Sometimes I really go crazy and have a beer at lunch.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes I am wild and have a third beer over the the course of a night. Sometimes I really go crazy and have a beer at lunch.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes I am wild and have a third beer over the the course of a night. Sometimes I really go crazy and have a beer at lunch.




You have your beer for breakfast, so you better drink your martinis at lunch. 

It's like they say, beer before liquor, so you can drink it quicker.
Liquor before beer? More liquor- was I unclear?


----------



## dragoner

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes I am wild and have a third beer over the the course of a night. Sometimes I really go crazy and have a beer at lunch.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


>




I saw him in a concert in Austin, TX in 2003 - the weirdest line-up I have ever seen:

Kris Kristoferson
Joe Jackson
Concrete Blonde
The Presidents of the United States of America


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I saw him in a concert in Austin, TX in 2003 - the weirdest line-up I have ever seen:
> 
> Kris Kristoferson
> Joe Jackson
> Concrete Blonde
> The Presidents of the United States of America




Great. Now I have PEACHES stuck in my head.

_Movin' to the country
I'm gonna eat a lot of peaches
Movin' to the country
Gonna eat me a lot of peaches_


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Great. Now I have PEACHES stuck in my head.
> 
> _Movin' to the country
> I'm gonna eat a lot of peaches
> Movin' to the country
> Gonna eat me a lot of peaches_



I have to say, I am not the hugest fan of any of them - but all four acts put on a fantastic show that I will never forget and would see any of them again.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I saw him in a concert in Austin, TX in 2003 - the weirdest line-up I have ever seen:
> 
> Kris Kristoferson
> Joe Jackson
> Concrete Blonde
> The Presidents of the United States of America



Wow, that is a wild line up and I would have been there with bells on.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Great. Now I have PEACHES stuck in my head.
> 
> _Movin' to the country
> I'm gonna eat a lot of peaches
> Movin' to the country
> Gonna eat me a lot of peaches_



Those guys were odd balls loved to try and throw people off. I saw the tables turned during a live show back in like '99. The lead singer is queuing up Peaches and says he was thinking of somebody when he wrote it. A crowd member shouted at the precise moment it was quiet enough for eveybody to hear, "your dad?" Needless to say it was the most awkward moment ive ever seen at a concert to this day (and I saw a man force the gals from Lucious to eat from his bucket of State Fair cookies once). Singer could barely get through the song.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I saw him in a concert in Austin, TX in 2003 - the weirdest line-up I have ever seen:
> 
> Kris Kristoferson
> Joe Jackson
> Concrete Blonde
> The Presidents of the United States of America



Oh, I just remembered a funny story about Kris. Back in like 2007-8 he did a show here in the TC. I went and thought it was great. I read a review online and this guy was really mad that he looked unkempt and didn't bother to wear a suit for his performance. I think the reviewer even mentioned "wore corduroy pants" he was so upset. Didn't mention any of the actual music or performance.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Those guys were odd balls loved to try and throw people off. I saw the tables turned during a live show back in like '99. The lead singer is queuing up Peaches and says he was thinking of somebody when he wrote it. A crowd member shouted at the precise moment it was quiet enough for eveybody to hear, "your dad?" Needless to say it was the most awkward moment ive ever seen at a concert to this day (and I saw a man force the gals from Lucious to eat from his bucket of State Fair cookies once). Singer could barely get through the song.




Two stories about weird/bizarre concert experiences ...

First, I was watching the Offspring at an outdoor shed. About midway through the set, and in the middle of a song (can't remember which one, now, but maybe _All I Want_?) Dexter Holland stopped the band and looked out at the crowd. He started this lecture about how we needed to pay attention to what was around us, etc. And that if we looked around, we would see trash everywhere. So we needed to pick up the trash. Again, he exhorted all of us to find a piece of trash near us and pick it up. Then he looked out over the crowd ...
_Okay ... all of you? You have a piece of trash? You have a piece of trash you picked up? Great. Now, take that trash, and throw it at someone else! _
And then they proceeded to full-bore back into the song as the air filled with debris. 

Other story- I was watching Ministry, at night. Al was wearing sunglasses and all-black (of course) and behind his H.R. Giger microphone. Anyway, the crowd was so riled up that they ... burned down the fence. So I just remember hearing the percussive and propulsive sound of Ministry and seeing Al and the dark sky was lit up with the burnt-orange flames of the fencing catching fire. 

Good times! And this is why live music is fun. Well, the music helps too.


----------



## dragoner

I saw Al Jorgensen tumble off the stage with a fancy mic stand made of bones at the SF Auditorium, also there was Helmet, and Sepultura.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## RealAlHazred

I remember seeing "Yes Plus," also billed as "Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe," many years ago. It was a packed stadium, and we were near the back of the crowd. Behind us was a guy, laying on the grass facing the wrong way, high on some really strong brand of weed. I vaguely remember the music of those talented artists, but I still strongly remember the smell of the weed.


----------



## Mannahnin

Ministry this year was absolutely awesome.  First time seeing them live, finally, and it was everything I could have hoped.  They brought the fence back, too.

Melvins and Corrosion of Conformity were quite good in support as well.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Oh, I just remembered a funny story about Kris. Back in like 2007-8 he did a show here in the TC. I went and thought it was great. I read a review online and this guy was really mad that he looked unkempt and didn't bother to wear a suit for his performance. I think the reviewer even mentioned "wore corduroy pants" he was so upset. Didn't mention any of the actual music or performance.




He was wearing faded jeans and a jean jacket and a white tee, when I saw him. It was just him and his guitar. No band.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> He was wearing faded jeans and a jean jacket and a white tee, when I saw him. It was just him and his guitar. No band.



Yeah, I think this dude got lost on his way to the Opera.


----------



## dragoner

Mannahnin said:


> Ministry this year was absolutely awesome.  First time seeing them live, finally, and it was everything I could have hoped.  They brought the fence back, too.
> 
> Melvins and Corrosion of Conformity were quite good in support as well.



All those are great bands.


----------



## billd91

Well, there went another thread jumping the shark.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Ministry this year was absolutely awesome.  First time seeing them live, finally, and it was everything I could have hoped.  They brought the fence back, too.
> 
> Melvins and Corrosion of Conformity were quite good in support as well.




I can't speak to today, but I know that in the 90s the Ministry mosh pit could always be relied upon for a near-death experience.

If you ended up battered and bruised and unable to walk the next day ... well, that counted as a success!


----------



## dragoner

Slayer and Motorhead at SF Auditorium mosh pit was like some maelstrom in hell, ten thousand giant metalheads in spiked jeans vests, hair sweated to their faces ... just out of control.


----------



## CleverNickName

I didn't comment in _two separate threads.



_


----------



## trappedslider

They sent a probe to die!

Did that need to be put in spoilers?


----------



## Malmuria

Malmuria said:


> I have never, not once, noticed or cared about the "martial-caster disparity" and whenever I see someone bring it up as the most important thing to them it makes me realize we are really playing different games.



Other things I don't care about


"customization"
dead levels
precise encounter building guidelines or balance


----------



## dragoner

tweakers


----------



## CleverNickName

bounded accuracy
uniform level progression
balanced encounters
action economy
your character's DPR


----------



## payn

Critical Role
4E


----------



## J.Quondam

the color palette of the art


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 256282



Am I the only one that thinks it looks like that turtle has a mustache?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Whatever Gary Gygax thought about how one "should" play the game
Whatever Dave Arneson thought about how one "should" play the game
In fact, whatever anyone thinks about how one "should" play the game


----------



## payn

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Whatever Gary Gygax thought about how one "should" play the game
> Whatever Dave Arneson thought about how one "should" play the game
> In fact, whatever anyone thinks about how one "should" play the game



Yes, of course, its not should but _must_!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Apropos of nothing, my favorite bit of Venus trivia is that the first thing the lander did was to pop out the camera to take pictures, and the second thing it did was to extend a sampler arm to take samples, all extremely quickly because the Russians knew this thing would last maybe a few hours at most in the hostile environment. It was doomed to be destroyed by the environment of sulfuric acid thunderstorms and crushing pressure and temperature.

Anyway, the scientists are busy analyzing their samples and talking about how odd the chemical composition is, when one of the guys looking over the photographs shows everybody something that makes them tear their hair out. It's a photo of the sampler arm, and it's "hand" is poised directly over the lens cap. They'd sent the probe thousands of miles through space, and some of their data was worthless because they had sampled bits the probe brought from earth.

I still remember the photo with the sampler arm on the lens cap in a Science textbook back in the Eighties.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> Yes, of course, its not should but _must_!



Listen, my Dungeon Master is EF Hutton, and _he_ says...


----------



## Ryujin

Liane the Wayfarer said:


> Apropos of nothing, my favorite bit of Venus trivia is that the first thing the lander did was to pop out the camera to take pictures, and the second thing it did was to extend a sampler arm to take samples, all extremely quickly because the Russians knew this thing would last maybe a few hours at most in the hostile environment. It was doomed to be destroyed by the environment of sulfuric acid thunderstorms and crushing pressure and temperature.
> 
> Anyway, the scientists are busy analyzing their samples and talking about how odd the chemical composition is, when one of the guys looking over the photographs shows everybody something that makes them tear their hair out. It's a photo of the sampler arm, and it's "hand" is poised directly over the lens cap. They'd sent the probe thousands of miles through space, and some of their data was worthless because they had sampled bits the probe brought from earth.
> 
> I still remember the photo with the sampler arm on the lens cap in a Science textbook back in the Eighties.



And then there was the time that it tried to sample Steve Austin.


----------



## dragoner

There are also sounds of Venus:


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> A great Aunt up in northern Wisconsin used to tell of how they went to school until it was 28 below.  School would close and they'd go out to play.  (Of course she was 100% Finn and I've only got 25%).




 20 below is the coldest it's gotten here in CT in my lifetime...





payn said:


> Like trying to find out which Springfield the Simpsons are from.




 Or COBRA.





el-remmen said:


> I saw him in a concert in Austin, TX in 2003 - the weirdest line-up I have ever seen:
> 
> Kris Kristoferson
> Joe Jackson
> Concrete Blonde
> The Presidents of the United States of America




 I'd pay money to see that show... Three out of the four are names I'd go see if playing by themselves.

I found out recently that the guy from the Presidents did a rap project with Sir Mixalot.
I decided my brain really didn't need to know about it.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I can't speak to today, but I know that in the 90s the Ministry mosh pit could always be relied upon for a near-death experience.
> 
> If you ended up battered and bruised and unable to walk the next day ... well, that counted as a success!



Yeah, those days are mostly past.  It wasn't too bad at House of Blues.  I had two smallish AFAB persons with me and they used me for an anchor, as I kept one hand on the barricade up front for basically the whole Ministry set.  I was only mildly banged up and a bit weary by the end.


----------



## Mannahnin

dragoner said:


> tweakers


----------



## el-remmen

Seriously considering making tomorrow's poll:

True or False: "I assume every statement in el-remmen's true/false polls represents his own stances on the subject."


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Seriously considering making tomorrow's poll:
> 
> True or False: "I assume every statement in el-remmen's true/false polls represents his own stances on the subject."


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> Seriously considering making tomorrow's poll:
> 
> True or False: "I assume every statement in el-remmen's true/false polls represents his own stances on the subject."



Apparently there are people who believe authors endorse all their characters' actions.

Apparently there are people who are irredeemably stoopid.


----------



## el-remmen

prabe said:


> Apparently there are people who believe authors endorse all their characters' actions.




Are you saying I'm just a character?


----------



## Gradine

My favorite bit of Venus trivia comes from the "What If?" book by Randall Munroe (xkcd)

Interplanetary Cessna


----------



## el-remmen

Someone's biting my rhymes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

What did I tell myself?

_Self, you are not posting in that thread._

And what did I do?

_I posted._


----------



## Malmuria

For anyone interested in playing a pbta or fitd style game, I highly recommend not listening to anyone on this site.  There is a learning curve--you might want to watch an actual play online and it will take 3-4 sessions for everyone to adjust.  But they are still basically role playing games.  It's not some radically different experience, nor one that you are somehow incapable of understanding because your first rpg was 5e.


----------



## Gradine

Malmuria said:


> For anyone interested in playing a pbta or fitd style game, I highly recommend not listening to anyone on this site.  There is a learning curve--you might want to watch an actual play online and it will take 3-4 sessions for everyone to adjust.  But they are still basically role playing games.  It's not some radically different experience, nor one that you are somehow incapable of understanding because your first rpg was 5e.



...Are these things people are telling you? Here? Because I'll fight them


----------



## Malmuria

At these prices, you can't afford _not_ to buy this special luxury product!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> For anyone interested in playing a pbta or fitd style game, I highly recommend not listening to anyone on this site.  There is a learning curve--you might want to watch an actual play online and it will take 3-4 sessions for everyone to adjust.  But they are still basically role playing games.  It's not some radically different experience, nor one that you are somehow incapable of understanding because your first rpg was 5e.




If certain styles of games were being judged by the advocates for those games as opposed to the games themselves, they would have negative players.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> ...Are these things people are telling you? Here? Because I'll fight them




Don't. As I've learned from long experience, it's like wrestling a pig. You both get dirty and the pig gets happy.

Wait, did I say I learned? HA! I never learn .....


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Don't. As I've learned from long experience, it's like wrestling a pig. You both get dirty and the pig gets happy.
> 
> Wait, did I say I learned? HA! I never learn .....



You will note that I specifically did not say anything about fighting anyone _effectively_


----------



## el-remmen

Imagine thinking I've been posting those polls because I am trying to gather actual legitimate data based on the results.

_Imagine thinking I look at the results!   _


----------



## RealAlHazred

Is someone trying to groom people into playing PBtA or FitD games on here?...


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> Imagine thinking I've been posting those polls because I am trying to gather actual legitimate data based on the results.
> 
> _Imagine thinking I look at the results!  _



Opens door. Tosses hand grenade into room. Closes door. Casually walks away from epic action-adventure style explosion occurring behind.


----------



## el-remmen

The unspoken rule of ENWorld is that in responding to a post with multiple things to respond to or ways of responding, that you choose the thing you hate the most to respond to in a way that makes it seem like the OP is suggesting that there is only that one hated way.


----------



## billd91

el-remmen said:


> The unspoken rule of ENWorld is that in responding to a post with multiple things to respond to or ways of responding, that you choose the thing you hate the most to respond to in a way that makes it seem like the OP is suggesting that there is only that one hated way.



D'oh! Now you've *spoken the unspoken rule* and Mr. Lambert has to put a bucket on his head. 
_"And did those feet in ancient time..."_


----------



## CleverNickName

"Now now, there's no need to be embarrassed.  Sometimes I even surprise _myself _with my brilliant arguments."


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Gradine said:


> My favorite bit of Venus trivia comes from the "What If?" book by Randall Munroe (xkcd)
> 
> Interplanetary Cessna



Absolutely amazing book. I was actually introduced to XKCD through that book, not the other way around (which seems to be the most common way).


----------



## payn

Oh, Fella, I fear you are not long for this EN World...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Lack of character? Son, if I had any more character, I'd be Bugs Bunny...


----------



## prabe

Wow, it's a real problem when the PCs can actually accomplish their actual goals, isn't it?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Wow, it's a real problem when the PCs can actually accomplish their actual goals, isn't it?




Is that goal .... living?

THEN YES.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Is that goal .... living?
> 
> THEN YES.



the nerve of the players not dying like I wanted them to...it's rude!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> the nerve of the players not dying like I wanted them to...it's rude!




I know! Every session that their PCs continue to live is like the players walking up to me and smacking me in the face with their character sheets.


----------



## dragoner

So I am going to make a rogue, tall dark eyed, straight black hair, alabaster skin, might not be human. She came from a good family that gave her everything she needs except for money, and that's what she wants ... 
Chaotic Good 'cause greed is good, right?


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> So I am going to make a rogue, tall dark eyed, straight black hair, alabaster skin, might not be human. She came from a good family that gave her everything she needs except for money, and that's what she wants ...
> Chaotic Good 'cause greed is good, right?


----------



## dragoner

Good 'ol Gordon Gekko


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


>


----------



## Malmuria

I think I found the solution of what to spend gold on in 5e...it's miniature wargaming!  Fun for whole adventuring party, plus you are supporting the ye ole creators of Waterdeep


----------



## CleverNickName

Now I kinda want to run a campaign where money has no worth at all.

You walk into a shop, everything is free.  "I'll take fifteen thousand healing potions!" you tell the shopkeeper, and he tosses you a key and says "Sure, the warehouse is out back, help yourself!"

You walk to the warehouse, and watch people sweeping gold coins out of their house like dust bunnies.  Silver nuggets and rubies crunch under your feet as you walk home, your back straining under the weight of hundreds of bottles of magical liquid.  You scoop up as many gems and coins as your straining pockets can hold, before you decide to get a horse and a cart (for free).  By sundown you have loaded it completely with platinum nuggets, flawless emeralds, and other stuff you found on the side of the road...along with even more kitsch from the Player's Handbook:  a couple suits of full plate armor, a silver-plated Everything from the weapon shop, three spyglasses and a waterclock.

Two months later, and you are hauling bracelets, necklaces, sapphires, and all other sorts of detritus to the treasure room of your castle, where you have your servants unload it all into your Scrooge-McDuck-esque vault.

"What on _earth _is he doing?" one of the guards says, crumpling up the platinum foil that his sandwich was wrapped in, and tossing it into the diamond-encrusted trash bin on the curb.

"I have _no idea,_" says the other guard, blowing her nose on a silk handkerchief embroidered with gold thread.  "Maybe he thinks he's helping?  Like, maybe he's building a landfill or some other kind of trash collection and disposal system?"

"They say he's a great hero or something," the first guard says.  "But have you ever seen him _do _anything?  That necromancer in the graveyard is still terrorizing the village with his undead minions, but that guy in there?" He gestures with his sandwich toward the gold-plated portcullis of Castle Silvergold, "He can't even make it to the edge of town before he has to turn back and unload his cart!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> I think I found the solution of what to spend gold on in 5e...it's miniature wargaming!  Fun for whole adventuring party, plus you are supporting the ye ole creators of Waterdeep




Just wait until the Wizards of Thay realize that they don't need to take over the world ...

They can just sell people rights to permanent illusions! 

So you could spend money on all of these ... there has to be a word for a property right to something other people see ... it's on the tip of my tongue ...


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Just wait until the Wizards of Thay realize that they don't need to take over the world ...
> 
> They can just sell people rights to permanent illusions!
> 
> So you could spend money on all of these ... there has to be a word for a property right to something other people see ... it's on the tip of my tongue ...



But don't worry they'll increase in value over time!  Meanwhile faerun is destroyed (again).


----------



## payn

Here is another one of those threads that is wrapped up in 2 pages more or less, that will continue to go on for 30+.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Here is another one of those threads that is wrapped up in 2 pages more or less, that will continue to go on for 30+.




Isn't that, like, every thread?

You should test it with this:

POLL: Water is wet. True or false.

I guarantee at least 5 pages of arguing with the premise, followed by 25 pages of bickering.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Isn't that, like, every thread?
> 
> You should test it with this:
> 
> POLL: Water is wet. True or false.
> 
> I guarantee at least 5 pages of arguing with the premise, followed by 25 pages of bickering.



And there is always That Guy who will complain about not being able to vote because there isn't a third option.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> And there is always That Guy who will complain about not being able to vote because there isn't a third option.



I believe that's covered in the 5 pages arguing the premise.... Oh I see what you are doing here.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



One of my local fine drinking establishments sells a cocktail called C.R.E.A.M.  Mi campo tequila, ancho verde, cucumber, lemon and jalapeno.  Tasty.





__





						Menu | Industry East Bar
					






					www.industryeastbar.com


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> POLL: Water is wet. True or false.



False. Water _makes other things _wet


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> False. Water _makes other things _wet



THERE'S the missing poll option!


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> False. Water _makes other things _wet



Clearly, everyone here need to review their school copybook on water.


----------



## Gradine

I've been thinking about the typical long-term D&D (or most TTRPGs) campaign. The term "zero to hero" tends to come up pretty regularly to describe characters going from low level to high level, as the threats they face scale to their levels. So, for instance, the party might start out dealing with small-scale problems. Solving a single murder, for example. Once they take care of that and level up a little, their enemies also scale up. Now it's a serial killer. A dangerous criminal organization. Maybe a villain-with-good-publicity trumps up charges to get one or more of the heroes arrested, so we can have a good old fashioned prison escape. The threats keep escalating. Next they save the whole town from an evil cult or two. They tackle a secret society, an ancient conspiracy. Ultimately they become so powerful that they take on world-ending threat.

So what I'm saying is that the best D&D television show is Riverdale. In this essay I will...


----------



## Cadence

Well, if the one is a halfling and the other isn't, then there's only a 1 in 8,000 chance of the halfling failing...


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


>




Whenever one of my friends has to change/cancel plans because of his kids he just sends a text that reads "C.R.E.A.M." for "Children Ruin Everything Around Me."


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> POLL: Water is wet. True or false.




No where in the RAW does it say that magical darkness blocks line of sight to what is behind it and no where does it say water is wet.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> So what I'm saying is that the best D&D television show is Riverdale. In this essay I will...




Tease! NEEDZ MOAR WORDZ!


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Tease! NEEDZ MOAR WORDZ!



Any true Riverdale fan will know that the show is always at its worst when it splits the party.

e: I left out the part where they travel the multiverse!


----------



## CleverNickName

Describe my action?  FINE.  I want to roll a twenty-sided die and add the highest number on my character sheet to the result.  That's all I'm trying to accomplish here.  That's all I'm ever trying to accomplish.  Why do you keep trying to turn this game into "a story" or whatever?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Describe my action?  FINE.  I want to roll a twenty-sided die and add the highest number on my character sheet to the result.  That's all I'm trying to accomplish here.  That's all I'm ever trying to accomplish.  Why do you keep trying to turn this game into "a story" or whatever?




Yes, and dice are those little things that keep getting in the way of my collaborative story-telling exercise.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> Wow, it's a real problem when the PCs can actually accomplish their actual goals, isn't it?



I don't know what you're replying to, but to play Devil's Advocate, the base premise of practically any story is "Person wants to accomplish a goal, but has to overcome stuff preventing them from achieving that goal". The player comes up with the goal, and the DM determines what they have to do to accomplish it. 

So, you have to let the PCs accomplish their actual goals eventually, but there do need to be some roadblocks in front of some of their main ones. Otherwise, the campaign won't be a story, it will just be a bunch of gods in a sandbox doing whatever they want. 

Obviously, it's not a good idea to do this to every single goal or action the PCs pursue, but doing it for the most important ones can make the campaign more meaningful because it shows how much work the PCs put into achieving whatever they want to achieve.


----------



## prabe

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I don't know what you're replying to, but to play Devil's Advocate, the base premise of practically any story is "Person wants to accomplish a goal, but has to overcome stuff preventing them from achieving that goal". The player comes up with the goal, and the DM determines what they have to do to accomplish it.
> 
> So, you have to let the PCs accomplish their actual goals eventually, but there do need to be some roadblocks in front of some of their main ones. Otherwise, the campaign won't be a story, it will just be a bunch of gods in a sandbox doing whatever they want.
> 
> Obviously, it's not a good idea to do this to every single goal or action the PCs pursue, but doing it for the most important ones can make the campaign more meaningful because it shows how much work the PCs put into achieving whatever they want to achieve.



There are games where the mechanics themselves work against the PCs' working toward their chosen goals--mostly by generating new sub-goals. I was not-responding to someone complaining that a game in that tradition wasn't making things harder on the PCs, so they could focus on what they wanted to accomplish.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I just can't get over that you people believe water is _REAL_?!? Wake up sheeple! Don't buy the lie being sold to you by Agua Grande!


----------



## CleverNickName

As a civil engineer who specializes in water conveyance, I can confirm.  Water isn't real, we just made it up to sell pipes.


----------



## RealAlHazred

In getting my own Engineering degree, I've made the acquaintance of many, many engineers. None of them are what I would call "civil."


----------



## Cadence

"How on earth did you ever get even that many positive reactions?"


----------



## dragoner

Just got back from the con of the gen variety, oof I feel like an old man, yet I wasn't the oldest there, probably only third or so.


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> Just got back from the con of the gen variety, oof I feel like an old man, yet I wasn't the oldest there, probably only third or so.



Isnt it still going or did you cut out?


----------



## dragoner

payn said:


> Isnt it still going or did you cut out?



I left, it goes all night in some places, exhibition hall closes at six though.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> I left, it goes all night in some places, exhibition hall closes at six though.



I'm not a con guy, but a bunch of friends are there. Go by booth 100 and tell them the Canadian who makes leather hats and hides behind his still camera at weddings, wrap parties, and conventions says hi


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> I'm not a con guy, but a bunch of friends are there. Go by booth 100 and tell them the Canadian who makes leather hats and hides behind his still camera at weddings, wrap parties, and conventions says hi



Oh, that's easy to remember.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Oh, that's easy to remember.



Then maybe "Rob from Toronto" would be easier 

_EDIT_ - Not really Toronto but anyone there would likely think Toronto instead of Brampton, just like they would think Seattle instead of Redmond.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> I'm not a con guy, but a bunch of friends are there. Go by booth 100 and tell them the Canadian who makes leather hats and hides behind his still camera at weddings, wrap parties, and conventions says hi



I left though it is your friends with ZOE? If I had known I would have gone by, probably did walk by them. I circled around for few hours.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Then maybe "Rob from Toronto" would be easier
> 
> _EDIT_ - Not really Toronto but anyone there would likely think Toronto instead of Brampton, just like they would think Seattle instead of Redmond.



Oh no, I cant find the video clip from SNL real world where Sandler tells the Irish guy to shut up as he is telling everyone that he says he is from Dublin even though he's really from a nearby town nobody will recognize.


----------



## Cadence

Is it bad form to bring the DMG to a PHB fight?


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Is it bad form to bring the DMG to a PHB fight?



Playing trump is just part of the game.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> I left though it is your friends with ZOE? If I had known I would have gone by, probably did walk by them. I circled around for few hours.



I have a bunch of friends who have worked with them, are on the production side, or would just recognize my name. I was at the Doyles' wedding at ZOECon, a few years back, and took a bunch of pics. Chris Ode is likely in charge of the booth, as he usually is, but not sure how many others I know personally went along as well. Also Sarah, Peter Adkison's social media person, is a friend but no idea what (if any) booth she might be working. Probably too busy wrangling stuff at the con.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> Probably too busy *arangling* stuff at the con.



This wins the "Best Word That's Not a Word but Ought to Be a Word Award" for the day.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> This wins the "Best Word That's Not a Word but Ought to Be a Word Award" for the day.



Fixed, but not sure that I should have


----------



## el-remmen

RealAlHazred said:


> I just can't get over that you people believe water is _REAL_?!? Wake up sheeple! Don't buy the lie being sold to you by Agua Grande!




Did you know that water is REALLY Hydrogen Dioxide and that prolonged immersion in hydrogen dioxide can lead to death? No one ever tells you the truth,


----------



## Hussar

Arangaling - Verb, transitive, present continuous tense - root:  To Arangle - To attempt to arrange things while herding cats and simultaneously nailing jello to a tree.

I will absolutely teach this word to my students.


----------



## Cadence

There are some people on here I'd pay good money to see play a seduction themed bard at some DMs on here's tables...


----------



## dragoner




----------



## el-remmen

Some people seem to confuse giving the literal definition of a word someone else used hyperbolically or metaphorically for intelligence.


----------



## payn

Reading posts from people who eat, breath, and sleep 4E, complain about people who eat, breath, and sleep 5E, is a predictable, but no less surprising, occurrence.


----------



## Malmuria

“it’s a good thing we have all these 3rd party products or else we might have to play something other than 5e!”


----------



## el-remmen

I have a whole other set of true/false polls ready for the coming week. As usual, if you have suggestions for future polls - even if they are just rough ideas not articulated as a true/false statement yet - feel free to DM me.


----------



## Cadence

"I wonder if some of you have ever searched code for a bug before... because both of those things certainly happen all the time in doing that."


----------



## J.Quondam

I was reading Ghosts of Saltmarsh last night and chuckled at the very first line. _"Saltmarsh is a nondescript fishing village..."_ followed by 20 pages of description.

When one describes a thing as "nondescript," is the thing still nondescript?


----------



## Malmuria

J.Quondam said:


> I was reading Ghosts of Saltmarsh last night and chuckled at the very first line. _"Saltmarsh is a nondescript fishing village..."_ followed by 20 pages of description.
> 
> When one describes a thing as "nondescript," is the thing still nondescript?



I think Saltmarsh would be best run as a kind of medieval fantasy twin peaks


----------



## J.Quondam

Malmuria said:


> I think Saltmarsh would be best run as a kind of medieval fantasy twin peaks



Oh. 
my. 
god.... 

That's perfect! Yes!


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> I was reading Ghosts of Saltmarsh last night and chuckled at the very first line. _"Saltmarsh is a nondescript fishing village..."_ followed by 20 pages of description.
> 
> When one describes a thing as "nondescript," is the thing still nondescript?



When I ran *Ghosts of Saltmarsh*, I moved it to 1580ish Port Royal, Jamaica. Not nondescript, but _definitely _doomed!


----------



## Retreater

Was going to make a list of topics I could comment on these boards without getting pessimistic or argumentative. I guess I can sit in the penalty box for a bit.


----------



## trappedslider

I'm starting to think some folks should just be banned from whole sections of the forums, don't say something about the past when a quick googling can say you are wrong.


----------



## Hussar

J.Quondam said:


> I was reading Ghosts of Saltmarsh last night and chuckled at the very first line. _"Saltmarsh is a nondescript fishing village..."_ followed by 20 pages of description.
> 
> When one describes a thing as "nondescript," is the thing still nondescript?




Ahh. The HP Lovectaft school of writing. 

The indescribable horror shuffled forth which I will now describe in intricate detail for the next page and a half.


----------



## prabe

Hussar said:


> Ahh. The HP Lovectaft school of writing.
> 
> The indescribable horror shuffled forth which I will now describe in intricate detail for the next page and a half.



THE VERY SIGHT OF IT DROVE ME MAD

let me tell you all about it


----------



## trappedslider

Repeat after me : "do not engage,just report and move on"


----------



## Hussar

trappedslider said:


> Repeat after me : "do not engage,just report and move on"




It took me a really really embarrassingly long time to learn this lesson. Like wayyyyyyy too long.


----------



## Hussar

Is it weird to switch between the phone app and the website and see someone has you blocked on the phone app and think, "who are you?  Have I ever actually directly interacted with you?"  

Just me?


----------



## Ryujin

Hussar said:


> Ahh. The HP Lovectaft school of writing.
> 
> The indescribable horror shuffled forth which I will now describe in intricate detail for the next page and a half.



If it was truly the Lovecraft School of Writing then it would start with, "It was indescribable" and then proceed to describe what it _didn't_ look like for three paragraphs.


----------



## el-remmen

I don't appreciate @payn trying to draw me into a thread I had no interest in even opening. I see what you're doing. . .  and I won't fall for it!


----------



## Ryujin

Hussar said:


> Is it weird to switch between the phone app and the website and see someone has you blocked on the phone app and think, "who are you?  Have I ever actually directly interacted with you?"
> 
> Just me?



I think it's more weird that blocking on the phone app doesn't also block on web. You (generic) don't want to see them on your phone, but sitting in front of a computer it's OK? What, do they post big images that you can't enjoy on your phone or something?


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I don't appreciate @payn trying to draw me into a thread I had no interest in even opening. I see what you're doing. . .  and I won't fall for it!



Almost!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Hussar said:


> Ahh. The HP Lovectaft school of writing.
> 
> The indescribable horror shuffled forth which I will now describe in intricate detail for the next page and a half.



Hilariously, HPL himself rarely did that. Reading his stuff in order of writing, I got the sense he realized it didn't work as well when the horror was described, so he came up with ways to imply the horror instead, which worked much better. But his imitators are less good at that...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> I think it's more weird that blocking on the phone app doesn't also block on web. You (generic) don't want to see them on your phone, but sitting in front of a computer it's OK? What, do they post big images that you can't enjoy on your phone or something?



"Phone Me is much more judgemental and bitchy than sitting-at-the-desk me, I'll have you know! What are you, some kind of communist?"
-- Phone Me


----------



## Malmuria

I guess we've settled on "not being able to have sex with dragons" as the thing that's wrong with 5e.  Which, fair point.


----------



## J.Quondam

Sometimes I wonder, _"Maybe I should get back to following more threads!"_
Then I read something like this...


Malmuria said:


> I guess we've settled on "not being able to have sex with dragons" as the thing that's wrong with 5e.  Which, fair point.



... and I think, _"Nah, I'm good."_


----------



## trappedslider

The worse thing about 5e is the consumer/player/gm/book buyer


----------



## el-remmen

I am back to finding it easier to believe that some people are lying about playing 5E D&D at all than to believe that they have such consistently negative experiences with the rules and problem players but continue to play anyway (presumably in order to be able to post about it on ENWorld).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I am back to finding it easier to believe that some people are lying about playing 5E D&D at all than to believe that they have such consistently negative experiences with the rules and problem players but continue to play anyway (presumably in order to be able to post about it on ENWorld).




HA! Presupposing knowledge or experience in order to comment!

If I spent time learning about stuff, I wouldn't have time to criticize it on the internet!


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> HA! Presupposing knowledge or experience in order to comment!
> 
> If I spent time learning about stuff, I wouldn't have time to criticize it on the internet!



Ah yes, that old chestnut.  Happens to me all the time.  Let me tell you about the time that I presupposed some knowledge...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Ah yes, that old chestnut.  Happens to me all the time.  Let me tell you about the time that I presupposed some knowledge...




Just remember- on the internet, no one knows if you're a dog.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I am back to finding it easier to believe that some people are lying about playing 5E D&D at all than to believe that they have such consistently negative experiences with the rules and problem players but continue to play anyway (presumably in order to be able to post about it on ENWorld).


----------



## dragoner

Here I just found opportunity attacks slightly annoying. Though the real secret is we play other stuff, and not 5e exclusively.


----------



## billd91

But then what the hell do I know
I come from Waunakee
I wear animal pelts, I eat raw meat
I sleep in a hollow tree


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Oh, Fella, I fear you are not long for this EN World...



And if you're thinking of who I'm thinking of, it ain't getting any better. I'd be tempted to start a betting pool.


----------



## dragoner

How does one pronounce "Aotearoa"?


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> How does one pronounce "Aotearoa"?



I would say, "Carefully, so as to avoid whiplash" but, apparently, it's au·tee·uh·row·uh.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> And if you're thinking of who I'm thinking of, it ain't getting any better. I'd be tempted to start a betting pool.



Still around, but it wont be long...


----------



## CleverNickName

I need to turn this music video into a D&D campaign.
Artwork and all.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

How difficult is it to be at least a tiny bit positive about absolutely anything on this site? Because you seem to only post negative things, even in threads that are meant to be super positive.


----------



## Deset Gled

AcererakTriple6 said:


> How difficult is it to be at least a tiny bit positive about absolutely anything on this site?




Depends on the verisimilitude of the thread, and how much agency the posters have regarding the narrative. What's viewed as positive in a beer-and-pretzels railroad thread could warrant moderation in a grim-and-gritty sandbox thread.


----------



## Malmuria

"I hate this game and the company that makes it...
...no I won't try 3rd party products or play _something else_ are you insane?"


----------



## CleverNickName

And conversely:
"If you hate 5E's optional rules for multiclassing so much, clearly you should play _a whole different game entirely."_


----------



## prabe

Why do I get the feeling what started as a discussion of proud nails turned into a hate-on drum circle?

It was ... inevitable.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> Why do I get the feeling what started as a discussion of proud nails turned into a hate-on drum circle?
> 
> It was ... inevitable.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


>



Yeah. I must not have been paying attention, or had a relapse of hope, or something.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> And conversely:
> "If you hate 5E's optional rules for multiclassing so much, clearly you should play _a whole different game entirely."_



This is quite possibly the lousiest point in the edition cycle.


----------



## Malmuria

payn said:


> This is quite possibly the lousiest point in the edition cycle.



I read that in David Attenborough's voice


----------



## J.Quondam

Malmuria said:


> I read that in David Attenborough's voice



I would happily watch this D&D documentary series... though I might skip the episode on the habits of Cat Piss Man.


----------



## payn

It's like 2007 again in here with all the "cool story, bro" drops.


----------



## Hussar

payn said:


> It's like 2007 again in here with all the "cool story, bro" drops.



Well, thankfully, it hasn't gotten that far yet.  Give it time...   Once you start seeing ghetto forums created to lock certain topics off from polluting the rest of the board, THEN we've gone full circle.  

That reminds me, I need to start three Warlord threads, two Psionics threads and a half dozen threads about damage on a miss and granting fighters non-magical powers.


----------



## Gradine

Oh oh, can I help? I've got a doozy of a thread lined up about shouting arms back on


----------



## payn

Hussar said:


> Well, thankfully, it hasn't gotten that far yet.  Give it time...   Once you start seeing ghetto forums created to lock certain topics off from polluting the rest of the board, THEN we've gone full circle.
> 
> That reminds me, I need to start three Warlord threads, two Psionics threads and a half dozen threads about damage on a miss and granting fighters non-magical powers.



lol, there is at least one poster that seems eager to relight the damage on a miss DOAM wars


----------



## el-remmen

I am a huge Prince fan and back in the 90s around the time that Prince temporarily changed his name to an unpronounceable symbol and was widely referred to as "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince" I was part of a Prince listserv. It was cool for a while. I met some cool people I would trade bootlegs with and talk about rare tracks and all that. But after a while, I began to notice that the vast majority of posts were complaining or criticizing everything Prince did or trying to tear down the production or arrangement of new songs, etc. . . eventually it was so bad I came to think of it of it not as a listserv for Prince Fans, but for Posters Formerly Known as Prince Fans and left the community.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I am a huge Prince fan and back in the 90s around the time that Prince temporarily changed his name to an unpronounceable symbol and was widely referred to as "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince" I was part of a Prince listserv. It was cool for a while. I met some cool people I would trade bootlegs with and talk about rare tracks and all that. But after a while, I began to notice that the vast majority of posts were complaining or criticizing everything Prince did or trying to tear down the production or arrangement of new songs, etc. . . eventually it was so bad I came to think of it of it not as a listserv for Prince Fans, but for Posters Formerly Known as Prince Fans and left the community.



Those were interesting years. Was that about the time Prince went born again?


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Was that about the time Prince went born again?




He became a Jehovah's Witness in 2001 - largely influenced by hanging with Larry Graham (who worked to convert him) and in part because his mother was a Seventh Day Adventist, so he had experience with cultish Christian religious minorities. Prince would sometimes actually go door to door with copies of the Watchtower in the Minnesota area.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> He became a Jehovah's Witness in 2001 - largely influence by hanging with Larry Graham (who worked to convert him) and in part because his mother was a Seventh Day Adventist, so he had experience with cultish Christian religious minorities. Prince would sometimes actually go door to door with copies of the Watchtower in the Minnesota area.



Yeap, I seen him do it a few times.


----------



## payn

Are we... not supposed to use paragraphs anymore?


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Are we... not supposed to use paragraphs anymore?




Grammar, spelling, and structure intended to help the audience approach the work is bending the knee to The Man.


----------



## el-remmen

Someone else is biting my rhymes. . .


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> Someone one else is biting my rhymes. . .



TMI.


----------



## Retreater

payn said:


> Yeap, I seen him do it a few times.



Wait. Are you saying you saw Prince going door-to-door passing out religious pamphlets?


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> Wait. Are you saying you saw Prince going door-to-door passing out religious pamphlets?



Down in Chanhassen, yeah. Also, I saw him on the light rail with his entourage. That was pretty sweet.


----------



## Hussar

That would be surreal. Seeing prince knocking on doors like that.


----------



## J.Quondam

Found an article about Prince and his door-knocking ways. Interesting read:








						Back When Prince Would Knock on Doors to Preach - First Look
					

“Has anyone ever told you that you look a lot like Prince?” It was what one homeowner said when the Jehovah's Witness superstar knocked on her door.




					musicoholics.com


----------



## eyeheartawk

The other day I drove by a purple Jeep Wrangler with that Prince ankh thing logo all over it. I thought it was pretty weird, but hey, it beats a car with anime characters I guess.


----------



## el-remmen

You: These polls are useless because everyone approaches them with their own assumptions.

Me: These polls are fruitful because everyone approaches them with their own assumptions.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> You: These polls are useless because everyone approaches them with their own assumptions.
> 
> Me: These polls are fruitful because everyone approaches them with their own assumptions.



Some topics are better than others. What is interesting is the folks that ignore the right/wrong blanket statements and just converse on the topic, and those who cant help themselves but bicker. I can almost predict who is who.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Some topics are better than others.



Even as great as I am I can't be perfect all the time.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg




----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> You: These polls are useless because everyone approaches them with their own assumptions.
> 
> Me: These polls are fruitful because everyone approaches them with their own assumptions.



But... but... their assumptions are wrong, because they aren't the same as mine!


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> But... but... their assumptions are wrong, because they aren't the same as mine!



Hey, if we wanted your assumptions,  Snarf will give them to you.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> Hey, if we wanted your assumptions,  Snarf will give them to you.




Well, you know what they say when you assume.... 

Snarf will come up with a list of 10 arbitrary rules "u" must follow!


----------



## CleverNickName

Officially, there are 13 classes and 120 unique subclasses in 5E.
Most people don't even use the ones we have..._why do we need more?_
/rant


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Officially, there are 13 classes and 120 unique subclasses in 5E.
> Most people don't even use the ones we have..._why do we need more?_
> /rant



Coming from a PF1 guy, that sounds like a beginners box.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Coming from a PF1 guy, that sounds like a beginners box.



Reminds me that I still haven't picked up a PF2 book yet. Guessing that they sort of went to the Starfinder style character creation?


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Reminds me that I still haven't picked up a PF2 book yet. Guessing that they sort of went to the Starfinder style character creation?



I didn't do Starfinder, so I'm not sure. Though, I would say PF2 is a big departure from PF1. It's closer to 4E. You pick an ancestry (race), background (skill/social), and class (combat/skill). Once you make level 1 decisions, your level up options are between 2-4 different feats at level up. Multiclassing is essentially hybrid 4E style. Stats boil down to essentially 2-3 different arrays. Pick a primary to pump, and a secondary to raise when possible. 

It sounds complicated but its really not. The sheer amount of feats seem daunting, but they have been siloed into packages that boil down to easy decision trees. That is certainly the biggest departure.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> I didn't do Starfinder, so I'm not sure. Though, I would say PF2 is a big departure from PF1. It's closer to 4E. You pick an ancestry (race), background (skill/social), and class (combat/skill). Once you make level 1 decisions, your level up options are between 2-4 different feats at level up. Multiclassing is essentially hybrid 4E style. Stats boil down to essentially 2-3 different arrays. Pick a primary to pump, and a secondary to raise when possible.
> 
> It sounds complicated but its really not. The sheer amount of feats seem daunting, but they have been siloed into packages that boil down to easy decision trees. That is certainly the biggest departure.



Yes, that sounds very similar to Starfinder.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Edition warring! The evergreen topic.

You know, I am sure that this time it will turn out differently!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Edition warring! The evergreen topic.
> 
> You know, I am sure that this time it will turn out differently!



I was wrong! Again; again.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I was wrong! Again; again.




YOU GOT SUCKED INTO IT!

There is only one response .....


----------



## CleverNickName

Aw, are you guys having an edition war without me?


(good)


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Aw, are you guys having an edition war without me?
> 
> 
> (good)


----------



## CleverNickName

Yep, that's a trap alright.
Passed my Wisdom (Investigation) check.


----------



## Deset Gled

It's always frustrating to agree with the side that has the worst representation.


----------



## billd91

Wow. Who could have guessed that after all these years I'd *still* be capable of enjoying the schadenfreude?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Officially, there are 13 classes and 120 unique subclasses in 5E.
> Most people don't even use the ones we have..._why do we need more?_
> /rant



That depends on the class, though. Artificers only have 4 subclasses and have a bunch of subclass concepts that could be filled (Dr. Frankestein-style fleshstitchers, for example). While others have a ton of subclasses and really don't need more (Clerics and Wizards in particular). And a lot of the subclasses suck, and either need to be replaced with another subclass of a similar niche, or needs to be reprinted in a future book with upgrades.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> Yep, that's a trap alright.



Excuse me?


----------



## CleverNickName

Yikes.  Some of ya'll have some messed-up power dynamics in your gaming group.


----------



## Malmuria

inspo for your next texas-themed call of cthulhu scenario:


----------



## el-remmen

I can't install a poll in the middle of a thread (How I wish I could - but only me, no one else  ) but wanted to ask people here: How long is your cut-off at which you refuse to even look at a thread?

I was tagged in a thread recently and when I went to check it out saw that in the day or so it has existed it had already reach 60-some-odd pages. Um. .. .


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I can't install a poll in the middle of a thread (How I wish I could - but only me, no one else  ) but wanted to ask people here: How long is your cut-off at which you refuse to even look at a thread?
> 
> I was tagged in a thread recently and when I went to check it out saw that in the day or so it has existed it had already reach 60-some-odd pages. Um. .. .



It varies. Some threads I'm done by page 2. Others, I can go pretty long as the discussion is decent and evolving. Though, eventually it's the same discussion different day.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> It varies. Some threads I'm done by page 2. Others, I can go pretty long as the discussion is decent and evolving. Though, eventually it's the same discussion different day.



I mean, before you even start it. . . not how long you follow it.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I mean, before you even start it. . . not how long you follow it.



Oh, I'll jump into about 80% of threads. It doesn't bother me if it turns out to be a topic I'm not interested in, or even if it gets offensive. It's pretty easy for me to disengage anytime I feel its necessary. Im here to talk shop and then some.


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> I can't install a poll in the middle of a thread (How I wish I could - but only me, no one else  ) but wanted to ask people here: How long is your cut-off at which you refuse to even look at a thread?
> 
> I was tagged in a thread recently and when I went to check it out saw that in the day or so it has existed it had already reach 60-some-odd pages. Um. .. .



Some of it's length. Some of it's seeing certain posters (or combinations of posters). Some of the posters that warn me off threads, I mostly agree with.


----------



## prabe

There's no consensus what it is, but no one makes any effort to prevent it. *That* will be a useful conversation, I'm sure.


----------



## Mannahnin

el-remmen said:


> I can't install a poll in the middle of a thread (How I wish I could - but only me, no one else  ) but wanted to ask people here: How long is your cut-off at which you refuse to even look at a thread?
> 
> I was tagged in a thread recently and when I went to check it out saw that in the day or so it has existed it had already reach 60-some-odd pages. Um. .. .



I don't have one fixed cutoff page number.  It's more dependent on how busy I am at work that day, whether I can spare the time and how compelling the discussion is.


----------



## Mannahnin

Retreater said:


> Wait. Are you saying you saw Prince going door-to-door passing out religious pamphlets?






payn said:


> Down in Chanhassen, yeah. Also, I saw him on the light rail with his entourage. That was pretty sweet.






J.Quondam said:


> Found an article about Prince and his door-knocking ways. Interesting read:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back When Prince Would Knock on Doors to Preach - First Look
> 
> 
> “Has anyone ever told you that you look a lot like Prince?” It was what one homeowner said when the Jehovah's Witness superstar knocked on her door.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> musicoholics.com




This reminds me of the part of An Evening with Kevin Smith where he talked about hanging out with Prince, and the bullying religious parlor games Prince played with fans just happy to meet him.



> One of Smith's most popular stories from the DVD is of when he was unknowingly forced to make a near 5-hour long documentary for Prince about God and the evolution of man, both of which are two topics Smith has little to no involvement in. Smith reveals he was angry with the pop star towards the end of the week he spent with him, especially when he learns of the documentary never seeing the light of day, instead being put into Prince's vault which includes over 100 original music videos and hundreds of hours of music previously unreleased according to Smith.











						An Evening with Kevin Smith - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Gradine

I don't have any direct quantitative cut-off points; I remove myself from a thread when (a) I've said what I've needed to say and (b) I've responded to my own satisfaction every point worth responding to.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I mostly disengage from a thread when I've run out of off topic jokes to make.


----------



## CleverNickName

CleverNickName said:


> Yikes.  Some of ya'll have some messed-up power dynamics in your gaming group.



But seriously though.  I read through some of these threads where everyone is discussing the attitudes of their fellow gamers, or the way that they communicate with each other, or the way they treat each other in general, and I really worry for some of ya'll.  I keep wanting to ask "is this how you treat _all _of your friends, or just the ones you play D&D with?"


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> I keep wanting to ask "is this how you treat _all _of your friends, or just the ones you play D&D with?"



They're all the same person.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Aeson said:


> They're all the same person.




No, really - he has five identical mannequins sitting around his gaming table...     He's named them Bob 1, Bob 2, etc...


----------



## Aeson

Mad_Jack said:


> No, really - he has five identical mannequins sitting around his gaming table...     He's named them Bob 1, Bob 2, etc...



Is that better or worse than five identical Real Dolls named Boob 1, Boob 2, etc..?


----------



## Hussar

@Aeson I do not like you.  I didn't know what a Real Doll was so I googled it.  

You are a bad, bad person.


----------



## trappedslider

Sheriff sends deputies on Batmobile arrest errand for a friend - Autoblog
					

The San Mateo, California, sheriff reportedly sent four deputies to an Indiana custom car shop when his friend didn't get a $210,000 Batmobile he ordered.




					www.autoblog.com
				



The best outcome of the whole thing: " "Holy political favors, Batman!""


----------



## Aeson

Hussar said:


> @Aeson I do not like you.  I didn't know what a Real Doll was so I googled it.
> 
> You are a bad, bad person.



_THAT'S  _your own fault.

You fell into my unbeknownst, but effective nonetheless trap. I WIN!


----------



## Mannahnin

Hussar said:


> @Aeson I do not like you.  I didn't know what a Real Doll was so I googled it.
> 
> You are a bad, bad person.



Perhaps redeeming this for you, there is an unexpectedly wholesome and quiet little movie called_ Lars and the Real Girl_, in which Ryan Gosling plays a young man of very limited social skills who apparently falls in love with such a doll.  Here's a snippet of plot synopsis from the first half of the movie, from the wiki article.  Don't want to spoil the whole plot, but IMO it's worth a watch.

Lars Lindstrom lives a secluded life in a small Wisconsin town. His mother died when he was born, causing his grief-stricken father to have been a distant parent to Lars and his older brother, Gus. Gus left town as soon as he could support himself, returning only to inherit his half of the household when their father died. As an awkward adult, Lars feels guilt that his birth coincides with his mother's death and he seeks to resolve these conflicting feeling of love and loss.

The inheritance has been divided between the brothers: Lars lives in the converted garage, while Gus and his pregnant wife Karin live in the house proper. Lars is pathologically shy; interacting with or relating to his family or co-workers is very difficult for him. A colleague at his office job, Margo, likes him, but Lars is impervious to Margo’s attempts to be friendly.

One evening, Lars happily announces to Gus and Karin that he has a visitor whom he met via the Internet, a wheelchair-mobile missionary of Brazilian and Danish descent named Bianca. The pair are startled to discover that Bianca is actually a lifelike doll Lars ordered from an adult website. Lars treats the doll as a live human being, asking if Bianca can stay in Gus and Karin's guest room, as she and Lars are religious and do not want scandal about their relationship. Gus and Karin play along with Lars’ delusion, but, concerned about his mental health, also convince Lars to take Bianca with him to Dagmar, a family doctor who is also a psychologist. While Dagmar diagnoses Bianca with low blood pressure, she urges Lars to come in with Bianca for weekly treatments, during which Dagmar will attempt to analyze Lars and get to the root of his behavior. Dagmar explains to Gus and Karin that Lars’ delusion is a manifestation of an underlying problem that needs to be addressed, and that they need to assist with Lars' therapy by continuing to treat Bianca as if she were a real woman. During this time, Margo has begun to date another co-worker, which silently bothers Lars.


----------



## CleverNickName

On the subject of "if D&D was a pizza," it looks like Spelljammer is already available in Switzerland?





(is it weird that I kinda want to try it?)


----------



## el-remmen

Interesting in that it is both "The original" and "New New Special Edition" - pretty sure it is an alien plot


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> Interesting in that it is both "The original" and "New New Special Edition" - pretty sure it is an alien plot



Classic Spelljammer, amirite?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> On the subject of "if D&D was a pizza," it looks like Spelljammer is already available in Switzerland?
> 
> View attachment 257385
> 
> ...is it weird that I kinda want to try it?



Weirdest thing ive seen since hot dog flavored potato chips.


----------



## trappedslider

correcting someone in the yahoo news article comments section is fun especially when you know the subject and how to find the info to prove the person wrong. ( person said the b-25 is unable to be shot down, 'Nam says different, the person says they are still on nuclear stand-by alert, which they haven't been since '91 and aren't approved to carry nukes since 2017)


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> correcting someone in the yahoo news article comments section is fun especially when you know the subject and how to find the info to prove the person wrong. ( person said the b-25 is unable to be shot down, 'Nam says different, the person says they are still on nuclear stand-by alert, which they haven't been since '91 and aren't approved to carry nukes since 2017)



"Unable to be shot down" sounds very much like "unsinkable", said The Titanic.


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> On the subject of "if D&D was a pizza," it looks like Spelljammer is already available in Switzerland?
> 
> View attachment 257385
> 
> (is it weird that I kinda want to try it?)



I am actively looking online to see if I can buy it.


----------



## CleverNickName

Every time I read a comment about "6th Edition," I fight the urge to post something like this.


----------



## Aeson

Ok. It's not available online. There are no recipes either.
I did find this, which looks amazing. It's just missing the hot dog.








						Pizza Burger Dogs - Cooking TV Recipes
					

Three of our favourite foods amalgamated into ONE! Cheeseburger + hot dog +pizza, hello perfect bite. It's delicious and doesn't take long to make either.



					cookingtv-channel.com


----------



## J.Quondam

I think I probably write-and-delete around five times as many posts as I actually post.
What's your ratio?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Every time I read a comment about "6th Edition," I fight the urge to post something like this.
> 
> View attachment 257402



...but, but, the 5 people I play with and my twitter feed says its necessary!


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> I think I probably write-and-delete around five times as many posts as I actually post.
> What's your ratio?



I'm the opposite. Maybe my ratio needs some fixin?


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> I think I probably write-and-delete around five times as many posts as I actually post.
> What's your ratio?



I don't write-and-delete, but I constantly write-and-revise my posts.  I have almost 10K posts, and nearly all of them have gotten edited just a few minutes after I post them.  Some get edited several times over several days.

It's an ADHD thing.


----------



## Aeson

J.Quondam said:


> I think I probably write-and-delete around five times as many posts as I actually post.
> What's your ratio?



I hold nothing back. I let it all out. It's one big stream of consciousness, man. One post, one take.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I don't write-and-delete, but I constantly write-and-revise my posts.  I have almost 10K posts, and nearly all of them have gotten edited just a few minutes after I post them.  Some get edited several times over several days.
> 
> It's an ADHD thing.




See, you can't rewrite, 'cause to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words, is a betrayal, and it's a sin, CleverNickName, it's a sin.

And I'd rather be known for my typos than my sin.


----------



## J.Quondam

Aeson said:


> I hold nothing back. I let it all out. It's one big stream of consciousness, man. One post, one take.



Like writing in the snow.


----------



## Aeson

J.Quondam said:


> Like writing in the snow.



Snow? What's that do?


----------



## billd91

Gotta love the argument that essentially boils down to Stockholm Syndrome.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> I don't write-and-delete, but I constantly write-and-revise my posts.  I have almost 10K posts, and nearly all of them have gotten edited just a few minutes after I post them.  Some get edited several times over several days.
> 
> It's an ADHD thing.



Yeah, I'm kind of the same, though I try not to edit after a few minutes. Most of my deletes are the result of making a Wisdom save... often multiple Wisdom saves vs the same post.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> See, you can't rewrite, 'cause to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and you betray your own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words, is a betrayal, and it's a sin, CleverNickName, it's a sin.
> 
> And I'd rather be known for my typos than my sin.



Eh, "sin" is just another word for "bad wrong fun."

EDIT:  Heh.  That ended up being a lot funnier (and fitting!) than I had intended.  Woops?


----------



## J.Quondam

Look! See? I just did it again!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Eh, "sin" is just another word for "bad wrong fun."




If it's a blast for you, it's a blasphemy, too!


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I don't write-and-delete, but I constantly write-and-revise my posts.  I have almost 10K posts, and nearly all of them have gotten edited just a few minutes after I post them.  Some get edited several times over several days.
> 
> It's an ADHD thing.



For me, it's a grammar/spelling thing. OK, maybe something else a bit, because I can't let something just sit when I know that I've made a spelling or grammar error.

Though maybe 1/10 posts I start end up being deleted, without completion.


----------



## Aeson

I don't believe in sin. 

According to an ad on this page, the SCA has gotten into LARPing as fighter pilots.









						Sky Combat Ace | Extreme Flying Adventure | 888-494-5850
					

Sky Combat Ace - The Number One Ultimate Extreme Thrill Ride in Las Vegas - Fly with a real fighter pilot.




					www.skycombatace.com


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> Every time I read a comment about "6th Edition," I fight the urge to post something like this.
> 
> View attachment 257402



Your charts and graphs have convinced that a new edition is needed.


----------



## trappedslider

billd91 said:


> Gotta love the argument that essentially boils down to Stockholm Syndrome.








 The musical? (let's see who gets it)


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> The musical? (let's see who gets it)



Well, considering that _Seven Brides for Seven Women_ is based on the Rape of the Sabine women ... seems apt, somehow.


----------



## billd91

trappedslider said:


> The musical? (let's see who gets it)



One of my most hated musicals and a significant reason why I despised the art form for many years.


----------



## eyeheartawk

J.Quondam said:


> Like writing in the snow.



I refuse to write in yellow text.


----------



## Mannahnin

Ryujin said:


> For me, it's a grammar/spelling thing. OK, maybe something else a bit, because I can't let something just sit when I know that I've made a spelling or grammar error.
> 
> Though maybe 1/10 posts I start end up being deleted, without completion.



Yeah, this is closer to me.  Though occasionally I'll rephrase or expand on a point when I realize I was unclear or phrased something awkwardly.



prabe said:


> Well, considering that _Seven Brides for Seven Women_ is based on the Rape of the Sabine women ... seems apt, somehow.



"_for seven women_"? Or Brothers?


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> Well, considering that _Seven Brides for Seven Women_ is based on the Rape of the Sabine women ... seems apt, somehow.



Didn't know that


billd91 said:


> One of my most hated musicals and a significant reason why I despised the art form for many years.



It's what happens when you give a shoestring budget to something that should have had an actual budget. Seriously you can see a bird fly right into the background and then land on the ground lol


----------



## trappedslider

Mannahnin said:


> "_for seven women_"? Or Brothers?



I've heard of gender flips...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*Friday Cocktails with Snarf*

Today, allow me to introduce you a summer favorite for you to enjoy while there is still a bit of summer left!

The Negroni Sbagliato (the "broken Negroni") was apparently made by accident when someone screwed up making their regular Negroni. Instead of gin, prosecco was used. Refreshing! You probably want to drink eight or ten of these on the patio before moving on to real cocktails.


_Ingredients_
Equal parts sweet vermouth, Campari, and sparkling wine (prosecco is recommended).

I recommend
1 1/2 oz Sweet Vermouth
1 1/2 oz Campari
1 1/2 oz Prosecco


_Directions_
1. Fill old-fashioned ("rocks") glass with ice.
2. Add vermouth and Campari. Stir.
3. Add Prosecco. Stir.
4. Garnish with orange wheel.
5. Hand the drink to someone who likes "light" and "refreshing" beverages.
6. Drink shots of Jeppson's Malört until you recall that life is pain, and then forget it again.


----------



## Mannahnin

Wednesday night I finally had a Little Giuseppe (a la Eastern Standard; Cynar and Punt e Mes, large ice cube, salt on the ice cube), as my third drink at Industry East after a Saztec (mezcal-based Sazerac) and a Thunder Kiss (Singani 63, Cardamaro, lemon, grapefruit, cinnamon).  Super tasty.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ooooo, it's cocktail hour!

Here's one for ya:

*Honeybee*
2 oz. Bombay gin
1 oz. Bärenjäger honey liquor
Juice of one lemon

Shake with ice, strain into a cocktail glass.  Garnish with a curl of lemon rind.


----------



## dragoner

In Italy, they will drink the Vermouth by the glass


----------



## South by Southwest

dragoner said:


> In Italy, they will drink the Vermouth by the glass



Mom used to do it by the bottle.


----------



## Mad_Jack

J.Quondam said:


> I think I probably write-and-delete around five times as many posts as I actually post.
> What's your ratio?




 I just spend a huge amount of time editing and revising my post before posting. Which is why I almost sound intelligent and reasonable sometimes.

Almost. Sometimes.




CleverNickName said:


> I don't write-and-delete, but I constantly write-and-revise my posts.  I have almost 10K posts, and nearly all of them have gotten edited just a few minutes after I post them.  Some get edited several times over several days.
> 
> It's an ADHD thing.




 I've gone back a year later and corrected a spelling error I noticed in a post.
I'm the same way - I usually figure out a more accurate way to convey what I want to say while I'm reading what I just posted, and then go back two or three more times to edit it.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Aeson said:


> Is that better or worse than five identical Real Dolls named Boob 1, Boob 2, etc..?




 Y'know, if I ever win the lottery, I'm gonna get one of those dolls and dress it up in a plastic dollar store viking helmet, plastic knight's breastplate and shield, and some Renfaire boots, and put a plastic sword in its hand.  I want it to have a total Snarfquest vibe.
Then I'm going to stand it in a corner in the entryway to my multi-million-dollar house/secret lair...


----------



## Aeson

Mad_Jack said:


> Y'know, if I ever win the lottery, I'm gonna get one of those dolls and dress it up in a plastic dollar store viking helmet, plastic knight's breastplate and shield, and some Renfaire boots, and put a plastic sword in its hand.  I want it to have a total Snarfquest vibe.
> Then I'm going to stand it in a corner in the entryway to my multi-million-dollar house/secret lair...



Pics or it doesn't happen.


----------



## prabe

That word is a trap, a grenade with the pin pulled, and no amount of schadenfreude can get me to look in that thread. Nope.


----------



## Davies

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 257385
> 
> (is it weird that I kinda want to try it?)



Then let us be weird together!

(Boston Pizza, in our neck of the woods, sometimes offers something called a Pizza Burger, which doesn't quite look like this.)


----------



## payn

Gotta say I like this fellas style. Stares right into the face of conventional wisdom and denies it. Asks for support from the community, gets entirely the opposite, but sticks to their guns anyways.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Gotta say I like this fellas style. Stares right into the face of conventional wisdom and denies it. Asks for support from the community, gets entirely the opposite, but sticks to their guns anyways.



Some people just gotta rollerskate uphill.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Some people just gotta rollerskate uphill.



You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger.
And you don't mess around with collective wisdom.


----------



## el-remmen

Seriously considering posting a thread about how I run D&D combats and how much fun they are from the session I am about to run, using photos and/or videos to show how you don't need to have any of the common features and assumptions about D&D combat that make it "a boring slog" or "over in 3 rounds." 

I know I will still be wrong about it, somehow.  So someone please talk me down.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Seriously considering posting a thread about how I run D&D combats and how much fun they are from the session I am about to run, using photos and/or videos to show how you don't need to have any of the common features and assumptions about D&D combat that make it "a boring slog" or "over in 3 rounds."
> 
> I know I will still be wrong about it, somehow.  So someone please talk me down.



Just make it a thread about how _you_ like combat and not a right or wrong thing.


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> Seriously considering posting a thread about how I run D&D combats and how much fun they are from the session I am about to run, using photos and/or videos to show how you don't need to have any of the common features and assumptions about D&D combat that make it "a boring slog" or "over in 3 rounds."
> 
> I know I will still be wrong about it, somehow.  So someone please talk me down.



Make it a [ - ] thread to elicit those _extra-spicy_ reactions.


----------



## Cadence

I wonder how messed up Blenderbot 3 could get by some gaming conversations.   How hard would it be to train it to take a side on, say railroading or fudging or edition wars?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I wonder how messed up Blenderbot 3 could get by some gaming conversations.   How hard would it be to train it to take a side on, say railroading or fudging or edition wars?



The question is, would it take the *correct* side?


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> The question is, would it take the *correct* side?



I suppose that depends on whether I give it the data, or someone who is wrong does.


----------



## Hussar

Oh bugger.  I knew, as soon as I hit post reply, that that was a mistake.


----------



## South by Southwest

I understand having a personal meltdown--I really do. _But why do it on a web-forum??_


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> I understand having a personal meltdown--I really do. _But why do it on a web-forum??_



The obvious answer is: because you know no one from your offline life will see it.


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> The obvious answer is: because you know no one from your offline life will see it.



Except that so often they do, don't they? People rarely make much effort to hide themselves online anymore.


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> Except that so often they do, don't they? People rarely make much effort to hide themselves online anymore.



True. There's also that forum sites are ... niche. That's more what I was talking about.


----------



## trappedslider

South by Southwest said:


> Except that so often they do, don't they? People rarely make much effort to hide themselves online anymore.



Not if i posted it or on Reddit, if I post on FB then yeah my RL friends and family will see it. But anywhere else there's like a .1% chance.

Posting a meltdown here lets you vent knowing that there's very little if any blowback/fallout if you're going to vent because of other people that you interact with on a daily basis.


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


> Not if i posted it or on Reddit, if I post on FB then yeah my RL friends and family will see it. But anywhere else there's like a .1% chance.
> 
> Posting a meltdown here lets you vent knowing that there's very little if any blowback/fallout if you're going to vent because of other people that you interact with on a daily basis.



Unless I show it to your family.


----------



## Hussar

Yup.  That went exactly as predicted.  Sigh.


----------



## Ondath

I thought a mod had interfered over a particularly rude post, but it seems I was just blocked and that's why I couldn't see the offending posts anymore. I guess that's my first block on the forums... Eh, I guess that's fine.

I should've posted here instead of in that thread, though.


----------



## Mannahnin

Ondath said:


> I thought a mod had interfered over a particularly rude post, but it seems I was just blocked and that's why I couldn't see the offending posts anymore. I guess that's my first block on the forums... Eh, I guess that's fine.
> 
> I should've posted here instead of in that thread, though.



Please interpret my Like as a "Care" react a la Facebook.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

"And so, that still leaves out the question of if the order of things changes it being pizza or not.  Crust only on bottom?  Is two layers allowed?  Cheese above or below sauce or both?  Where do the toppings go?  etc...  How some of you can even stand to eat it while imagining it's pizza is beyond me!"


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> "And so, that still leaves out the question of if the order of things changes it being pizza or not.  Crust only on bottom?  Is two layers allowed?  Cheese above or below sauce or both?  Where do the toppings go?  etc...  How some of you can even stand to eat it while imagining it's pizza is beyond me!"



Some of the D&D arguments on these boards really are like this:

THIS IS THE ONLY PIZZA HOW IS THIS EVEN A QUESTION?!




OMG NOT PIZZA WHAT EVEN IS THIS?!




Come on folks, it's the same "pizza," just upside down.  What's the big deal?


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Some of the D&D arguments on these boards really are like this:
> 
> THIS IS THE ONLY PIZZA HOW IS THIS EVEN A QUESTION?!
> View attachment 257733
> 
> OMG NOT PIZZA WHAT EVEN IS THIS?!
> View attachment 257734
> 
> Come on folks, it's the same "pizza," just upside down.  What's the big deal?




Ok.  I'm willing to say that it needs crust on the bottom to be counted as a Pizza...   (I can imagine how delivering them upside down in a box would go over -- but then again, just saw a movie with sandwiches with bread in the middle....).


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Ok.  I'm willing to say that it needs crust on the bottom to be counted as a Pizza...   (I can imagine how delivering them upside down in a box would go over -- but then again, just saw a movie with sandwiches with bread in the middle....).



"Well how did you do them? That's way too much bread."


----------



## CleverNickName

Remember the 3.5E sandwich?


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> Some of the D&D arguments on these boards really are like this:
> 
> THIS IS THE ONLY PIZZA HOW IS THIS EVEN A QUESTION?!
> View attachment 257733



Sorry, not a pizza if it's only cut into 6 slices.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 257741
> 
> Remember the 3.5E sandwich?
> View attachment 257743



Lightyear Spoilers:



Spoiler


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> Some of the D&D arguments on these boards really are like this:
> 
> THIS IS THE ONLY PIZZA HOW IS THIS EVEN A QUESTION?!
> View attachment 257733
> 
> OMG NOT PIZZA WHAT EVEN IS THIS?!
> 
> 
> Come on folks, it's the same "pizza," just upside down.  What's the big deal?


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> Sorry, not a pizza if it's only cut into 6 slices.



We recently visited DC, and have developed the DC cut based on the city layout.  You overlay the cuts from a tavern style (squares) with some well placed diagonals.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> We recently visited DC, and have developed the DC cut based on the city layout.  You overlay the cuts from a tavern style (squares) with some well placed diagonals.



It only counts if you A) have random circles at biggish intersections and B) get lost while you're cutting the pizza.


----------



## CleverNickName

From what I can tell, "Portland Style" pizza is just a normal pizza, except everyone moans about how it was better before it got all popular, before it "sold out" and Big Pizza Corp put it on the Internet.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> It only counts if you A) have random circles at biggish intersections and B) get lost while you're cutting the pizza.



Oooh.  I've done lots of bizarre pizza cuts for my son... but I've never tried random circles!!


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Oooh.  I've done lots of bizarre pizza cuts for my son... but I've never tried random circles!!



The circles are important. Gotta have circles overlaid on a radial plan overlaid on a grid, if you wanna have the perfect street layout.

Presuming that by "perfect" you mean "guaranteed to befuddle invading armies, and also tourists."

EDIT: I should be clear. I live near DC and am speaking from ... experience.


----------



## South by Southwest

CleverNickName said:


> Remember the 3.5E sandwich?
> View attachment 257743



A tesseract sandwich?? Or maybe a mobius??


----------



## South by Southwest

Rubikwich:


----------



## Hussar

Wasn't there some sandwich from KFC that put the chicken on the outside a few years back that made everyone lose their mind?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Hussar said:


> Wasn't there some sandwich from KFC that put the chicken on the outside a few years back that made everyone lose their mind?




 Yup - just two pieces of chicken with the rest of the stuff in between them.


----------



## Davies

Mad_Jack said:


> Yup - just two pieces of chicken with the rest of the stuff in between them.



Tried that. Found it unappetizing, but I believe that was due to some of the filling. The chicken itself was delicious.


----------



## Deset Gled

Hussar said:


> Wasn't there some sandwich from KFC that put the chicken on the outside a few years back that made everyone lose their mind?




It's called the Double Down.


----------



## Hussar

Now is it a sandwich if we use donuts?


----------



## Aeson

Hussar said:


> Now is it a sandwich if we use donuts?



Someone did that too. And yes it's a sandwich. A sandwich is any food where something is sandwiched between two other somethings. You can make a BLT with the lettuce and tomato sandwiched between bacon, or bacon and tomato sandwiched between lettuce, or lettuce and bacon sandwiched between tomato. I think that last one would be the messier choice. And also, hot dogs are sandwiches.


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> It's called the Double Down



Should be called the double dog dare, KFC is nasty. 


Aeson said:


> Someone did that too. And yes it's a sandwich.


----------



## Cadence

**  Starts to go check the OED definition of sandwich... and then realizes which thread this is.  **


----------



## Davies

Gosh, we wouldn't want to do anything _hard_. Wouldn't want to put any effort in. It's really best to stay in our comfort zone and never venture outside of it. Here, have some crayons.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

BEHOLD!






_hmmmm..... needz moar pineapple._


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> BEHOLD!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _hmmmm..... needz moar pineapple._



What are we beholding exactly?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> What are we beholding exactly?




Breakfast!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Breakfast!



Tuna waffles!?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Tuna waffles!?




No. I never _eat _tuna waffles for breakfast.

Instead, you make those, and you put 'em in a blender and make 'em a smoothie so you can drink it down real smooth like. Don't want to blend it too much because you need to keep a little ... chunkiness ... to the tuna.

Add 1/4 ounce of maple syrup, a few shots of espresso, and a cup of gin and then you've got yourself a hearty breakfast in a mug!


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> On the subject of "if D&D was a pizza," it looks like Spelljammer is already available in Switzerland?
> 
> View attachment 257385
> 
> (is it weird that I kinda want to try it?)



Since a homemade version of that appears above again, I'd like to point out that Dr. Oetker is based out of Bielefeld. 

And since that's the case, who's to say that the company or this product ever existed at all?


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> Tuna waffles!?



That sounds like a sex act like donkey punch or dirty sanchez. Don't look those up @Hussar


----------



## Cadence

"We didn't try doing it in-character yet though, have we?  That might extend it some."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*A Brief Digression About Pizza

Snarf*: So, this is a cool pizzeria! I really like this slice with prosciutto and artichoke heart and kimchi.

*Customer*: Well, you might say that. But they used to have this amazing pizza with peanut butter and jelly as topping.

*Snarf*: Oh. Okay. Not familiar with that. What happened?

*Customer*: Well, all of these pizza traditionalists kept complaining about the pizza. They said it wasn't real pizza because it didn't have pepperoni. Complained about how it replaced the pepperoni pizza on the menu.

*Snarf*: Oh ... sounds bad?

*Customer*: Yeah! They made our lives miserable! Every day, complaining about the PB&J pizza. And how they wouldn't eat it. It was so bad that fights started. Management started throwing out people for even talking about pizza toppings.

*Snarf*: Ouch! So what happened?

*Customer*: Well, eventually the pepperoni lovers went to another pizzeria. And this place decided to replace the PBJ pizza with the prosciutto, artichoke heart , and kimchi pizza. The olds like the prosciutto, and the young 'uns like the kimchi.

*Snarf*: Awesome! I love it too!

*Customer*: Harumph. No you don't. Us PBJ lovers still come here just to tell you that you don't love that pizza. And we will keep coming here until they put PBJ on that kimchi monstrosity.

*Snarf*: Cool cool. So, have you ever heard of irony?

*Customer*: What? Is that a pizza topping?


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *A Brief Digression About Pizza
> 
> Snarf*: So, this is a cool pizzeria! I really like this slice with prosciutto and artichoke heart and kimchi.
> 
> *Customer*: Well, you might say that. But they used to have this amazing pizza with peanut butter and jelly as topping.
> 
> *Snarf*: Oh. Okay. Not familiar with that. What happened?
> 
> *Customer*: Well, all of these pizza traditionalists kept complaining about the pizza. They said it wasn't real pizza because it didn't have pepperoni. Complained about how it replaced the pepperoni pizza on the menu.
> 
> *Snarf*: Oh ... sounds bad?
> 
> *Customer*: Yeah! They made our lives miserable! Every day, complaining about the PB&J pizza. And how they wouldn't eat it. It was so bad that fights started. Management started throwing out people for even talking about pizza toppings.
> 
> *Snarf*: Ouch! So what happened?
> 
> *Customer*: Well, eventually the pepperoni lovers went to another pizzeria. And this place decided to replace the PBJ pizza with the prosciutto, artichoke heart , and kimchi pizza. The olds like the prosciutto, and the young 'uns like the kimchi.
> 
> *Snarf*: Awesome! I love it too!
> 
> *Customer*: Harumph. No you don't. Us PBJ lovers still come here just to tell you that you don't love that pizza. And we will keep coming here until they put PBJ on that kimchi monstrosity.
> 
> *Snarf*: Cool cool. So, have you ever heard of irony?
> 
> *Customer*: What? Is that a pizza topping?


----------



## trappedslider

smh well, that was pointless unless you were trying to get a 7 yr old thread locked.....in which case good job?


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


> smh well, that was pointless unless you were trying to get a 7 yr old thread locked.....in which case good job?



Achievement unlocked?


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> smh well, that was pointless unless you were trying to get a 7 yr old thread locked.....in which case good job?



Took two attempts at it though.


----------



## trappedslider

Cottonmouth turf war turns comical when a raccoon wades into middle of NC marsh fight 

One brave racoon or very foolish racoon


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Took two attempts at it though.



so, it was practice?


----------



## trappedslider

I saw this movie it didn't end well








						Scientists Plan Multimillion-Dollar Resurrection Of Tasmanian Tiger
					

Scientists have taken stem cells from a living species with similar DNA and turned the into thylacine cells.




					www.ndtv.com


----------



## el-remmen

Wizards of the Coast doesn't owe you anything.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> so, it was practice?



More like coin toss.


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> Wizards of the Coast doesn't owe you anything.



But I've given them _so much_!  All my spare time, all my spare money, I have given to them _since childhood_!  The least they can do is give me 5E Mystara...


----------



## Malmuria

I'm sorry, but I find these Todd Kenreck PR interviews extremely cringe.  I suppose it's better than all the "journalistic" fluff pieces that attend every wotc release, because at least it's honest, but the fact that someone has the job of being a giggling superfan is just


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Wizards of the Coast doesn't owe you anything.


----------



## Cadence

"It rips off the bandage that covers the gaping wound of hit point gamism buy in, and I revel in the pain." ?


----------



## Davies

We all get the players we deserve.


----------



## Hussar

Davies said:


> We all get the players we deserve.




True that. 

It just takes some of us a long time to reach there.


----------



## eyeheartawk

el-remmen said:


> Wizards of the Coast doesn't owe you anything.



They owe me about tree fiddy


----------



## payn

Had to check my calendar this morning. Folks on EN World saying that if D&D doesn't do Harry Potter, Airbender, and supers it will fail. Thought I had been dreaming since 2008.


----------



## el-remmen

Oh. It's not so easy to do a poll is it? Hmmm? 


It is almost like the more choices and potential topics built into the question the more room there is to miss something, get it wrong, or have data that is nearly impossible to make sense of. . .


----------



## el-remmen

My poll archive now stands at 25:


"I have never once worried about 'encounters per day' when prepping D&D 5E"
"As a DM I don't pay all that much attention (if any) to the PCs' remaining resources."
"As DM, I Know How All the PCs' Abilities, Spells, and Items Work"
"I Like to Play D&D on My Birthday"
"When DMing I Avoid Making the PCs have 'pointless' combats."
"The so-called '5-Minute Workday' is Something I've Seen Regularly Playing 5E D&D"
"I House Ruled Aspects of 5E or Chose to Use Options from the DMG Before I'd Ever Played or Run 5E"
"Tactics are an Important Part of D&D"
"When I Run D&D 5E, the Arc of the PCs' Adventures is 'Zero to Hero'."
"When Starting Up a New Campaign I Always Have a Session #0"
"As a Player, I Alert the DM When I Notice Them Make a Mistake in the PCs Favor"
"When I DM, I Try to Make Sure to Lay Eyes on Every Roll My Players Make to Confirm It"
"My group uses Discord, Email, or some other form of chat to take care of in-game between-session logistics and/or role-playing."
"In My General Experience Playing D&D, DMs Care More About Setting Lore Than Players Do"
"When Running a 5E Campaign I Always Ban at Least One Core Race, Class, or Sub-Class"
"I Prefer for My 5E D&D Campaigns to Have a Pre-Determined Ending Point"
"As a whole, 3rd Party Products Make D&D Better."
"I have Experienced What I'd Call 'DM Burnout'"
"I Have Grandfathered or Incorporated Rules/Features from Previous Editions of D&D into my 5E campaigns."
"Once an encounter begins, I will make changes to it for balance, fun, or rules reasons."
"When I DM I do my Best to Curb Players Meta-Gaming or Using Out-of-Character Knowledge."
"Players in my D&D Group Sometimes Play Characters of a Different Gender."
"I have had a 'D&D Hangover'"
"I have Played in or Run a Campaign Set in the Forgotten Realms"
"I have played in or run a D&D campaign set in Greyhawk."


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> My poll archive now stands at 25:
> 
> 
> "I have never once worried about 'encounters per day' when prepping D&D 5E"
> "As a DM I don't pay all that much attention (if any) to the PCs' remaining resources."
> "As DM, I Know How All the PCs' Abilities, Spells, and Items Work"
> "I Like to Play D&D on My Birthday"
> "When DMing I Avoid Making the PCs have 'pointless' combats."
> "The so-called '5-Minute Workday' is Something I've Seen Regularly Playing 5E D&D"
> "I House Ruled Aspects of 5E or Chose to Use Options from the DMG Before I'd Ever Played or Run 5E"
> "Tactics are an Important Part of D&D"
> "When I Run D&D 5E, the Arc of the PCs' Adventures is 'Zero to Hero'."
> "When Starting Up a New Campaign I Always Have a Session #0"
> "As a Player, I Alert the DM When I Notice Them Make a Mistake in the PCs Favor"
> "When I DM, I Try to Make Sure to Lay Eyes on Every Roll My Players Make to Confirm It"
> "My group uses Discord, Email, or some other form of chat to take care of in-game between-session logistics and/or role-playing."
> "In My General Experience Playing D&D, DMs Care More About Setting Lore Than Players Do"
> "When Running a 5E Campaign I Always Ban at Least One Core Race, Class, or Sub-Class"
> "I Prefer for My 5E D&D Campaigns to Have a Pre-Determined Ending Point"
> "As a whole, 3rd Party Products Make D&D Better."
> "I have Experienced What I'd Call 'DM Burnout'"
> "I Have Grandfathered or Incorporated Rules/Features from Previous Editions of D&D into my 5E campaigns."
> "Once an encounter begins, I will make changes to it for balance, fun, or rules reasons."
> "When I DM I do my Best to Curb Players Meta-Gaming or Using Out-of-Character Knowledge."
> "Players in my D&D Group Sometimes Play Characters of a Different Gender."
> "I have had a 'D&D Hangover'"
> "I have Played in or Run a Campaign Set in the Forgotten Realms"
> "I have played in or run a D&D campaign set in Greyhawk."



Impressive.


----------



## Cadence

@payn   Which do you think you would prefer, the e8 type set up, spreading the abilities up to level 8 across 20 or 30 levels, or using XP to adhoc improve things getting up to about level 8?

(Where 8 could be anything from 6-12 depending on what is deemed the sweet spot).


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> @payn   Which do you think you would prefer, the e8 type set up, spreading the abilities up to level 8 across 20 or 30 levels, or using XP to adhoc improve things getting up to about level 8?
> 
> (Where 8 could be anything from 6-12 depending on what is deemed the sweet spot).



Let me see if I have this correct. Choice A is the game only has 8 levels, but fits the 20 level power spread? Choice B has no levels, just XP awards that give power ups that eventually hit the level 20 spread?

If that is the question, I think I would prefer the 8 level system for D&D for traditional sense, but I have done the other successfully for years in Traveller.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Let me see if I have this correct. Choice A is the game only has 8 levels, but fits the 20 level power spread? Choice B has no levels, just XP awards that give power ups that eventually hit the level 20 spread?
> 
> If that is the question, I think I would prefer the 8 level system for D&D for traditional sense, but I have done the other successfully for years in Traveller.




A: e8 - level like usual to 8, then feats only

B: Take the powers of levels 1 to 8 and stretch them out. (So it takes 20 or 30 levels of advancement to get to the current level 8 power).

C: traveller-esque


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> A: e8 - level like usual to 8, then feats only
> 
> B: Take the powers of levels 1 to 8 and stretch them out. (So it takes 20 or 30 levels of advancement to get to the current level 8 power).
> 
> C: traveller-esque



I think A&C are ideal. In that order for D&D in particular.

 I don't even want 20 levels of gaming the way they are now. Though, I really do think D&D tier play should be different by level. So, 1-8 is like general sword and sorcery play, 9-14 is high level fantasy, and finally 15-20 is gonzo fantasy. That's just an example, but something I think the designers would be wise to articulate during development, and solidified in the PHB/DMG.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I think A&C are ideal. In that order for D&D in particular.
> 
> I don't even want 20 levels of gaming the way they are now. Though, I really do think D&D tier play should be different by level. So, 1-8 is like general sword and sorcery play, 9-14 is high level fantasy, and finally 15-20 is gonzo fantasy. That's just an example, but something I think the designers would be wise to articulate during development, and solidified in the PHB/DMG.




What do you feel is the big difference between A&B?  Is it that it still gives some joy of levelling up to that power level like the traditional gameand then plateauing, instead of making the whole thing more gradual?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> What do you feel is the big difference between A&B?  Is it that it still gives some joy of levelling up to that power level like the traditional gameand then plateauing, instead of making the whole thing more gradual?



I think levels are a more tangible increase in power. You see the HP go up, you actively take new feats, etc.. It's a big milestone as opposed to a smaller one. In a game where focus is on tactics over strategy, this is important. For example, in super hero games I have never liked leveling systems. I mean, I want to be Superman and do Superman things. So, with leveling, I start as bullet proof. Then, I level up to strength, eye beams, flying, etc... That just doesn't fit the genre. Also, combat being so nuanced with death conditions is also not within the genre. Superman doesn't die, or at least doesn't stay permanently dead. Now you can say D&D characters can be raised from the dead, this is true, but its not something that happens for the first 1/3 of the game. Which fits the sword and sorcery genre.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I think levels are a more tangible increase in power. You see the HP go up, you actively take new feats, etc.. It's a big milestone as opposed to a smaller one. In a game where focus is on tactics over strategy, this is important. For example, in super hero games I have never liked leveling systems. I mean, I want to be Superman and do Superman things. So, with leveling, I start as bullet proof. Then, I level up to strength, eye beams, flying, etc... That just doesn't fit the genre. Also, combat being so nuanced with death conditions is also not within the genre. Superman doesn't die, or at least doesn't stay permanently dead. Now you can say D&D characters can be raised from the dead, this is true, but its not something that happens for the first 1/3 of the game. Which fits the sword and sorcery genre.




I don't picture a lot of S&S characters leveling that quickly though.  

In an e8 type set-up, what's your sweet spot for how many sessions between levels?

What's your sweetspot for the power level of the 1st level character?  (Straight off the farm, experience apprentice, journeyman?)


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I don't picture a lot of S&S characters leveling that quickly though.
> 
> In an e8 type set-up, what's your sweet spot for how many sessions between levels?



For the first 3 levels, its usually 4-6 sessions. After that, its usually probably about 3 sessions per level. 


Cadence said:


> What's your sweetspot for the power level of the 1st level character?  (Straight off the farm, experience apprentice, journeyman?)



I like where 3E/PF1 characters start. Though, I dont want do dwell there too long. I think 3rd level is a good point of hardy enough to take a hit, and have enough tools in the box to be interesting. I would envision this process as off the farm to journeyman.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> For the first 3 levels, its usually 4-6 sessions. After that, its usually probably about 3 sessions per level.
> 
> I like where 3E/PF1 characters start. Though, I dont want do dwell there too long. I think 3rd level is a good point of hardy enough to take a hit, and have enough tools in the box to be interesting. I would envision this process as off the farm to journeyman.



How long in e8 do you keep playing them after they've hit 8 and it's just feats?

(And thank you for submitting to the inquisition, by the way!)


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> How long in e8 do you keep playing them after they've hit 8 and it's just feats?



At this point I usually start working towards the campaign end game. Sometimes that comes around quickly, like in an adventure path. Sometimes it takes awhile for a sandbox game that is based on faction play. So, really the campaign style will dictate along with player's initiative to engage the end game. I tend to put a lot of options in the player's hands when it comes to pacing.


Cadence said:


> (And thank you for submitting to the inquisition, by the way!)



This is fun stuff to talk about, so the pleasure is all mine!


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> My poll archive now stands at 25:
> 
> 
> "I have never once worried about 'encounters per day' when prepping D&D 5E"
> "As a DM I don't pay all that much attention (if any) to the PCs' remaining resources."
> "As DM, I Know How All the PCs' Abilities, Spells, and Items Work"
> "I Like to Play D&D on My Birthday"
> "When DMing I Avoid Making the PCs have 'pointless' combats."
> "The so-called '5-Minute Workday' is Something I've Seen Regularly Playing 5E D&D"
> "I House Ruled Aspects of 5E or Chose to Use Options from the DMG Before I'd Ever Played or Run 5E"
> "Tactics are an Important Part of D&D"
> "When I Run D&D 5E, the Arc of the PCs' Adventures is 'Zero to Hero'."
> "When Starting Up a New Campaign I Always Have a Session #0"
> "As a Player, I Alert the DM When I Notice Them Make a Mistake in the PCs Favor"
> "When I DM, I Try to Make Sure to Lay Eyes on Every Roll My Players Make to Confirm It"
> "My group uses Discord, Email, or some other form of chat to take care of in-game between-session logistics and/or role-playing."
> "In My General Experience Playing D&D, DMs Care More About Setting Lore Than Players Do"
> "When Running a 5E Campaign I Always Ban at Least One Core Race, Class, or Sub-Class"
> "I Prefer for My 5E D&D Campaigns to Have a Pre-Determined Ending Point"
> "As a whole, 3rd Party Products Make D&D Better."
> "I have Experienced What I'd Call 'DM Burnout'"
> "I Have Grandfathered or Incorporated Rules/Features from Previous Editions of D&D into my 5E campaigns."
> "Once an encounter begins, I will make changes to it for balance, fun, or rules reasons."
> "When I DM I do my Best to Curb Players Meta-Gaming or Using Out-of-Character Knowledge."
> "Players in my D&D Group Sometimes Play Characters of a Different Gender."
> "I have had a 'D&D Hangover'"
> "I have Played in or Run a Campaign Set in the Forgotten Realms"
> "I have played in or run a D&D campaign set in Greyhawk."



I believe all political candidates should be required to answer these surveys, to better inform the electorate.
My 2cp.


----------



## CleverNickName

Here goes nothing:  let's see if we can discuss the influence of MMORPGs in the gaming industry in the late 2000s, without the usual suspects accusing me of slandering a certain edition of D&D.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> I believe all political candidates should be required to answer these surveys, to better inform the electorate.
> My 2cp.



I am Payn, and I approve this message...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Here goes nothing:  let's see if we can discuss the influence of MMORPGs in the gaming industry in the late 2000s, without the usual suspects accusing me of slandering a certain edition of D&D.




That's as likely as someone saying, "I'd like to discuss the influence of ketchup on hot dogs, without the usual suspect accusing me of slandering Chicago."


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's as likely as someone saying, "I'd like to discuss the influence of ketchup on hot dogs, without the usual suspect accusing me of slandering Chicago."



Snarf, there is a Detective Callahan on the line for you...


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's as likely as someone saying, "I'd like to discuss the influence of ketchup on hot dogs, without the usual suspect accusing me of slandering Chicago."



I resemble part of that remark! 

 (Block? Call a moderator?... Mmm hotdogs...  Lunch time!)


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's as likely as someone saying, "I'd like to discuss the influence of ketchup on hot dogs, without the usual suspect accusing me of slandering Chicago."



As a Man of Culture in the greater Chicagoland area I can tell you that it's perfectly fine to put ketchup on a hot dog.

If you're 12 or under.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's as likely as someone saying, "I'd like to discuss the influence of ketchup on hot dogs, without the usual suspect accusing me of slandering Chicago."



Maybe if I carefully avoid any mention of Chicago, and just use general terms like "large cities in the USA," and try to guide the discussion to french fries, tater tots, and other non-hotdog applications...?

...eh, maybe it's not worth the trouble.  Ketchup is a very important and flavorful condiment, but it might not be worth the fuss.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Maybe if I carefully avoid any mention of Chicago, and just use general terms like "large cities in the USA," and try to guide the discussion to french fries, tater tots, and other ketchup applications...?




"Do you think they'll notice I put my new ketchup on tater products thread in the hot dog forum?"


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> "Do you think they'll notice I put my new ketchup on tater products thread in the hot dog forum?"



"Sir, this is a Wendys."


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> As a Man of Culture in the greater Chicagoland area I can tell you that it's perfectly fine to put ketchup on a hot dog.
> 
> If you're 12 or under.



... and are being raised by wolves or other wild animals.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> As a Man of Culture in the greater Chicagoland area I can tell you that it's perfectly fine to put ketchup on a hot dog.
> 
> If you're 12 or under.




Well, it's my understanding that the reason that they don't put ketchup on their hot dogs in Chicago ...

is because they need all that ketchup to use as the "marinara" in the jacuzzis of casserole that they call Deep Dish "Pizza."



Pretty sure I have that right!


----------



## eyeheartawk

I think there is a world of difference between slathering ketchup onto a 7 ingredient Chicago hot dog, which also happens to contain a premium all beef hot dog, so that all you taste is ketchup VS putting it on whatever form of fried potato with some salt on it.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, it's my understanding that the reason that they don't put ketchup on their hot dogs in Chicago ...
> 
> is because they need all that ketchup to use as the "marinara" in the jacuzzis of casserole that they call Deep Dish "Pizza."
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure I have that right!



You sir, are a monster!


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, it's my understanding that the reason that they don't put ketchup on their hot dogs in Chicago ...
> 
> is because they need all that ketchup to use as the "marinara" in the jacuzzis of casserole that they call Deep Dish "Pizza."
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure I have that right!



Pretty close. We all mostly eat tavern style pies anyway. 

I pretty much only get deep dish/stuffed pizza when out of towners come around.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> You sir, are a monster!




Flattery will get you .... EVERYWHERE!


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, it's my understanding that the reason that they don't put ketchup on their hot dogs in Chicago ...
> 
> is because they need all that ketchup to use as the "marinara" in the jacuzzis of casserole that they call Deep Dish "Pizza."
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure I have that right!


----------



## trappedslider

eyeheartawk said:


> As a Man of Culture in the greater Chicagoland area I can tell you that it's perfectly fine to put ketchup on a hot dog.
> 
> If you're 12 or under.





*Leo:* No, because we are both men of Chicago.
*Bartlet:* What is it with people from Chicago that they're so happy to have been born there? I meet so many people who can't wait to tell me they're from Chicago and when I meet them, they're living anywhere but Chicago.
*Leo:* You wouldn't understand.


----------



## Cadence

Even for French Fries, I wonder how it comes out ahead of ranch, bbq sauce, Sweet Baby Ray's Secret Sauce, gravy, cheese, or even mustard for anyone with actual taste buds...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> *Leo:* No, because we are both men of Chicago.
> *Bartlet:* What is it with people from Chicago that they're so happy to have been born there? I meet so many people who can't wait to tell me they're from Chicago and when I meet them, they're living anywhere but Chicago.
> *Leo:* You wouldn't understand.




You know how Americans are, Trappedslider. They all love to travel, and then they only want to meet other Americans and talk about how hard it is to get a decent hamburger.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Even for French Fries, I wonder how it comes out ahead of ranch, bbq sauce, Sweet Baby Ray's Secret Sauce, gravy, cheese, or even mustard for anyone with actual taste buds...


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> *Leo:* No, because we are both men of Chicago.
> *Bartlet:* What is it with people from Chicago that they're so happy to have been born there? I meet so many people who can't wait to tell me they're from Chicago and when I meet them, they're living anywhere but Chicago.
> *Leo:* You wouldn't understand.



Since they don't let ketchup heretics into Chicago the only place you run into them is outside of the city?


----------



## Retreater

My wife and I are compatible on many issues, but she's one of those "ketchup on hotdogs" people.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Even for French Fries, I wonder how it comes out ahead of ranch, bbq sauce, Sweet Baby Ray's Secret Sauce, gravy, cheese, or even mustard for anyone with actual taste buds...



Salsa.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Even for French Fries, I wonder how it comes out ahead of ranch, bbq sauce, Sweet Baby Ray's Secret Sauce, gravy, cheese, or even mustard for anyone with actual taste buds...









Use this NOW.

Thank me later. And forever.


----------



## el-remmen

I like my french fries with just pepper (usually have enough salt on them already).
I like my hot dogs with mustard AND ketchup.


----------



## J.Quondam

GUACAMOLE ON ALL THE THINGS!!


----------



## CleverNickName

I had kimchi and sriracha on a hot dog a while ago, and it was absolutely amazing.  10/10, will eat again.

But _ketchup_?  Come on.  That's gotta be a joke or something.  Hot dogs look and taste nothing like fried potatoes.


----------



## Gradine

Here's the thing: a proper hot dog has mustard, dill relish, and chopped raw onion. Lacking _both _relish and onion, ketchup makes a fine pair with mustard, and is better than without, but it's still clearly an inferior dog.

The definitive list of things ketchup belongs on/goes with:
*Chicken/fish burgers, paired with mayo and tartar respectively
*Also fried egg sandwiches, again paired with mayo
*Hot dogs, as stated above, only as a last resort
*Scrambled eggs, paired with your preferred hot sauce
*French fries, if the fries aren't particularly good on their own
*Boxed Mac n' Cheese, paired with your preferred hot sauce
*In a breakfast burrito, especially if a good salsa isn't handy
*Meatloaf, but that goes without saying


----------



## CleverNickName

@Gradine, in my house the all-inclusive list of every known edible substance in the universe that ketchup belongs on/goes with, is:

Fried potatoes
Onion rings
For everything else on your list, the only condiment for me is mustard or hot sauce.

Why yes, my family is German/Irish.  How did you know?


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> @Gradine, in my house the all-inclusive list of every known edible substance in the universe that ketchup belongs on/goes with, is:
> 
> Fried potatoes
> Onion rings
> For everything else on your list, the only condiment for me is mustard or hot sauce.
> 
> Why yes, my family is German/Irish.  How did you know?




My list is even shorter:

Hamburgers


----------



## J.Quondam

Damn you and your ditties!


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> @Gradine, in my house the all-inclusive list of every known edible substance in the universe that ketchup belongs on/goes with, is:
> 
> Fried potatoes
> Onion rings
> For everything else on your list, the only condiment for me is mustard or hot sauce.
> 
> Why yes, my family is German/Irish.  How did you know?



I can't believe I forgot Onion Rings!


----------



## Ryujin

A good onion ring needs nothing else.


----------



## Tutara

Could someone please make an 'I didn't comment in 'I didn't comment in another thread' thread'? Thank you.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Damn you and your ditties!




I read that, and I was like, "Sir, this is not a gentleman's club."

And then I was like, "Oh, ditties!" 

And then I had _Pour some sugar on me _stuck in my head.

Life is weird.


----------



## billd91

Tutara said:


> Could someone please make an 'I didn't comment in 'I didn't comment in another thread' thread'? Thank you.



Sorry, we cannot comment on ongoing commentary threads.


----------



## Tutara

billd91 said:


> Sorry, we cannot comment on ongoing commentary threads.



Am I allowed to thank you for commenting on my commentary on a commentary thread?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Tutara said:


> Am I allowed to thank you for commenting on my commentary on a commentary thread?


----------



## billd91

Tutara said:


> Am I allowed to thank you for commenting on my commentary on a commentary thread?



No comment. But thank you for the compliment. Your comportment complements the current comments.


----------



## Tutara

I construe that I should continue to comprehensively constrain my complimenting of commentary. To contravene this would contradict this conversation's conventions.


----------



## billd91

I concede. I cannot continue to comprehensively contrast nor compete in this conviviality.


----------



## billd91

Some day, I'll look back on this post and wonder 'what the eff was I on?'


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> Some day, I'll look back on this post and wonder 'what the eff was I on?'


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## payn

5E is an utter failure, because I can not play as Nyan Cat.


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> Impressive.




I have ideas for at least six more polls. . . let's see if I can make it 50.


----------



## Malmuria

If you were to tell me in 2002 that Kill Rock Stars would release a Spelljammer theme album in twenty years I would be...very, very confused


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Some day, I'll look back on this post and wonder 'what the eff was I on?'



The internet, clearly.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Per Coleridge, it's a close second to laudanum.


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> Wizards of the Coast doesn't owe you anything.




<chases after them on bike yelling, "Two Dollars!">


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Mad_Jack said:


> <chases after them on bike yelling, "Two Dollars!">


----------



## Hussar

What’s wrong with ketchup on hot dogs? 

Then again in Canada we have ketchup flavoured potato chips. 

And ketchup with Kraft dinner is a staple.


----------



## el-remmen

Hussar said:


> What’s wrong with ketchup on hot dogs?




Nothing. People just like to judge other people's (or Midwestern city's) food choices.


----------



## Malmuria

It's not like the hot dog is a particularly elevated culinary product.  On the other hand, people who put ketchup on nice steaks...


----------



## Hussar

Malmuria said:


> It's not like the hot dog is a particularly elevated culinary product. On the other hand, people who put ketchup on nice steaks...




Brown sauce is acceptable. 

Then again I’ve seen my father put ketchup on mashed potatoes. 

No accounting for taste.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I saw this today and it made me laugh.


----------



## Cadence

Would be apropos of earlier things, if only they'd just give up using the bowl!.


----------



## Hussar

Hey. I learned when to stop today. I wonder if it’s a lesson I will retain….

Oh look at that….

Sigh.


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> 5E is an utter failure, because I can not play as Nyan Cat.



There has to be a 3rd party source book or netbook somewhere. You shall not rest until you find it.


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> There has to be a 3rd party source book or netbook somewhere. You shall not rest until you find it.



They did release _Ponyfinder _for PF1. Hope springs eternal.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Cadence said:


> Would be apropos of earlier things, if only they'd just give up using the bowl!.
> 
> View attachment 258133


----------



## el-remmen

We clearly live in a world where "on the whole" is synonymous with "but what about me?"


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> We clearly live in a world where "on the whole" is synonymous with "but what about me?"



I think we probably live in a world where any given phrase eventually translates to "what about me?"


----------



## billd91

There are definitely a couple of things wrong with the gaming community (as evidenced here on ENWorld):
1) An obnoxious tendency toward know-it-all-ism
2) A bizarre fixation on gnome/halfling hate


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> There are definitely a couple of things wrong with the gaming community (as evidenced here on ENWorld):
> 1) An obnoxious tendency toward know-it-all-ism
> 2) A bizarre fixation on gnome/halfling hate



Your 1) seems to include a species of one-way-ism (I know what's best, after all).

I'd add bards and/or paladins to your 2), but I think at least some of that--from at least some posters--is mostly like shtick, or some other (mostly) humor.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> There are definitely a couple of things wrong with the gaming community (as evidenced here on ENWorld):
> 1) An obnoxious tendency toward know-it-all-ism
> 2) A bizarre fixation on gnome/halfling hate




I completely agree. All the gnome/halfling hate allows the true enemy to skate on by....

The 5,493 varieties of elves. I keep cuttin' 'em down, but WoTC makes more!


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> There are definitely a couple of things wrong with the gaming community (as evidenced here on ENWorld):
> 1) An obnoxious tendency toward know-it-all-ism
> 2) A bizarre fixation on gnome/halfling hate



That seems internet specific to me. I don't get these things from my gaming buds.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The 5,493 varieties of elves. I keep cuttin' 'em down, but WoTC makes more!



Shame on you.

It's very important that we distinguish between elves that live on hills and elves that live in valleys in pure game terms.


----------



## billd91

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The 5,493 varieties of elves. I keep cuttin' 'em down, but WoTC makes more!



They are the kudzu of primary fantasy races.
Humanoid x (orc, goblin, hobgoblin, norker, bugbear, etc) are probably a close second.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I'd add bards and/or paladins to your 2), but I think at least some of that--from at least some posters--is mostly like shtick, or some other (mostly) humor.




I'm not sure I follow ... Bards, as is well-known and cannot be reasonably disputed, make lovely corpses.

But what sort of logorrheic lummox would besmirch the pristine principles of a plethora of paladins?


----------



## Mezuka

Complaining WoTC designers are ignorant or inconsistent when it comes to settings. Obviously they've never read TSR products written by design teams that didn't talk to each other and had no oversight...


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mezuka said:


> Complaining WoTC designers are ignorant or inconsistent when it comes to settings. Obviously they've never read TSR products written by design teams that didn't talk to each other and had no oversight...



It depends on their context I suppose. I mean, who's going to argue that, say, all the gazetteers for Mystara aren't consistent? But more broadly that was certainly true.


----------



## Mezuka

eyeheartawk said:


> It depends on their context I suppose. I mean, who's going to argue that, say, all the gazetteers for Mystara aren't consistent? But more broadly that was certainly true.



The Piazza forum Mystara section has long threads about this kind of topic and also inconsistent maps.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mezuka said:


> The Piazza forum Mystara section has long threads about this kind of topic and also inconsistent maps.



I've been foiled once more by my most persistent nemesis. 

Ultra-grogs over at the Pizza forum


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's as likely as someone saying, "I'd like to discuss the influence of ketchup on hot dogs, without the usual suspect accusing me of slandering Chicago."






payn said:


> Snarf, there is a Detective Callahan on the line for you...



Are you sure you don't mean Sgt. Peterson? I get a feeling that this case may involve the Sausage King of Chicago.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hussar said:


> What’s wrong with ketchup on hot dogs?





el-remmen said:


> Nothing. People just like to judge other people's (or Midwestern city's) food choices.



It's a metaphor for gaming preferences and intolerances, and it's been fascinating watching it take different shapes over the last few months.

From what I can tell, it started out as pizza and its various toppings being a metaphor for the D&D game and all of the different elements that people enjoy in it.  This happened around the time that there were tons of threads on the forums about optional rules, changes to game lore, and new character options in _Tasha's Cauldron of Everything_.  I think I started that one, or at least heavily influenced it, as a way to encourage discourse without upsetting too many people...a gentle way of reminding folks that preferences aren't facts, and nobody is going to force you to 'eat something you don't like.'  (It's also a way to poke fun at people who absolutely cannot abide anyone disagreeing with them.)

The discussion then migrated to sandwiches when it was suggested that pizza is a type of sandwich...which I thought was a fascinating way of discussing that D&D is an RPG, but not all RPGs are D&D.  This metaphor usually comes along when some major campaign setting starts getting traction in the forums..._Dark Sun_ was grinding around in the rumor mill for the first shift in this direction, then it was _Witchlight,_ now it's _Spelljammer_.

In the latest twist on this metaphor, the topic has shifted to hot dogs, because they are sandwiches in every way that matters except for their name--which coincided with several recent threads on "retroclones" and the next edition of D&D.

If there are any sociology or psychology grad students in the forum, I bet there's a thesis in here somewhere.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Yeah, I was just talking about hot dogs tho


----------



## CleverNickName

Great.
Now I'm hungry.

Okay, real talk:  no metaphors about gnomes or monks or psionics, just some straight-up facts about hot dogs.  See that Seattle-style dog, in the graphic below--top row, center?  It's unreasonably delicious. Cream cheese on a bratwurst has no right tasting as good as it does.  I didn't expect to like it, and I'm still trying to figure out _how it's even possible _that I  liked it.  If you're not lactose-intolerant, you should at least give it a try before you decide not to include monks in your campaign you don't like it.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> It's a metaphor for gaming preferences and intolerances,




Doy. People like to judge those too. . . I was just sticking to the "metaphor" by not actually mentioning games.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Great.
> Now I'm hungry.




I looked at your graphic of all the different "hot dogs," and I have one thing I need to say.

_Ce n'est pas un hot-dog. C'est un pénis._

Except for Japan. I ... have nothing. 
_
......tentacles._


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> Doy. People like to judge those too. . . I was just sticking to the "metaphor" by not actually mentioning games.



See, I keep trying to do that, but I can't help myself.  Alas.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I looked at your graphic of all the different "hot dogs," and I have one thing I need to say.
> 
> _Ce n'est pas un hot-dog. C'est un pénis._
> 
> Except for Japan. I ... have nothing.
> 
> _......tentacles._



No bun, no toppings, just a frankfurter and a knife?  If OD&D was a hot dog...  

(gunshots, screams, explosions)


----------



## el-remmen

Just so there's a record of evidence when I turn out to be wrong. . .  my prediction for my three (so far) D&D setting polls are as follows:


Forgotten Realms: Overwhelmingly leaning towards "True"
Greyhawk: Leaning significantly towards "False"
Eberron: About 50/50 or maybe 40/60 in either direction.


----------



## J.Quondam

"Adorable" is not how I'd ordinarily describe a hotdog. And yet, here we are. 
They are adorbs.


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> "Adorable" is not how I'd ordinarily describe a hotdog. And yet, here we are.
> They are adorbs.



Maybe not "adorable," but that French hot dog is very sexy.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> Maybe not "adorable," but that French hot dog is very sexy.



A jaunty dollop of guac on that Japanese one, like a tiny beret?
Oh, sexy indeed!


----------



## Malmuria

The future of dnd


----------



## Malmuria

This is a good commercial though...


----------



## J.Quondam

Malmuria said:


> This is a good commercial though...



All it needs is a cute little octopus hotdog companion, and it would be perfect!


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> This is a good commercial though...



lol, the wizard kills the dragon while the fighter and ranger kill zombies.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> lol, the wizard kills the dragon while the fighter and ranger kill zombies.



I wondered why they chose zombies for the commercial. Not what I would consider a "quintessential" D&D monster really.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> lol, the wizard kills the dragon while the fighter and ranger kill zombies.



Well of course.  It _IS_ a Dungeons & Dragons commercial after all...


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> Well of course.  It _IS_ a Dungeons & Dragons commercial after all...



Perhaps Japan has strict regulations on accurate advertising


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I looked at your graphic of all the different "hot dogs," and I have one thing I need to say.
> 
> _Ce n'est pas un hot-dog. C'est un pénis._
> 
> Except for Japan. I ... have nothing.
> 
> _......tentacles._






CleverNickName said:


> No bun, no toppings, just a frankfurter and a knife?  If OD&D was a hot dog...
> 
> (gunshots, screams, explosions)



I mean, you CAN use a knife if you want to OD&D it, and/or if you want to really show off those Top Chef knife skills.

Or you can get lazy, piss off Alton Brown with another one-use kitchen tool, and buy an Octodog like my ex-wife and I did.









						Octodog - Turn Hot Dogs into Octopuses!
					

Check out this cool, er strange, new kitchen gadget called the Octodog. It converts ordinary hot dogs into little octopuses. Just insert your hot dog into the Octodog, press down, and voila... an octopus!




					www.thegreenhead.com


----------



## J.Quondam

Mannahnin said:


> I mean, you CAN use a knife if you want to OD&D it, and/or if you want to really show off those Top Chef knife skills.
> 
> Or you can get lazy, piss off Alton Brown with another one-use kitchen tool, and buy an Octodog like my ex-wife and I did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Octodog - Turn Hot Dogs into Octopuses!
> 
> 
> Check out this cool, er strange, new kitchen gadget called the Octodog. It converts ordinary hot dogs into little octopuses. Just insert your hot dog into the Octodog, press down, and voila... an octopus!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thegreenhead.com



What an exhilarating time to be alive!


----------



## Asisreo

Malmuria said:


> Perhaps Japan has strict regulations on accurate advertising



But then why did the wizard roll a d20? 

The dragon must've been extremely weak if it got killed by a cantrip. 

And I've noticed a distinct lack of of dungeons!


----------



## el-remmen

Ever start a thread and then immediately re-read it and think, "Welp, not coming back to see any of the responses to this!"?*



*(I mean, aside from @Snarf Zagyg, we know that's his M.O.)


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Ever start a thread and then immediately re-read it and think, "Welp, not coming back to see any of the responses to this!"?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(I mean, aside from @Snarf Zagyg, we know that's his M.O.)



One time I made a poll thread, but didnt actually put a poll in it.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> One time I made a poll thread, but didnt actually put a poll in it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Ever start a thread and then immediately re-read it and think, "Welp, not coming back to see any of the responses to this!"?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(I mean, aside from @Snarf Zagyg, we know that's his M.O.)




What is this? Just minding my own business, and I'm getting hit by drive-bys!

For your benefit, it's not that I've said everything I've needed to say when I write the OP, it's that I've realized that I don't care what other people think.

...um... wait. No, no, that's not it. Never say the quiet part out loud.

It's that I'm the kind of person that enjoys throwing grenades into rooms, and I don't need to go back and count the bodies.

Uh ... gosh, that looks bad too.

Okay, maybe it's just because I start so many threads that I don't have the time to check on all of them*, because if I did, I wouldn't be able to both crank out my next 30,000 work homage to Greyhawk AND post something in this thread making fun of the culinary habits of people I don't know!

Oh ... um .... hmm....

Look. I'm sure I can explain this with a food metaphor. See, my posts are a lot like a banh mi, but by the time other people have posted, it looks more like a Philly cheesesteak. But not a good Philly cheesteak, see .... _because there aren't any_.

There!


*Something poll-boy is certain to understand!


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Look. I'm sure I can explain this with a food metaphor. See, my posts are a lot like a banh mi, but by the time other people have posted, it looks more like a Philly cheesesteak. But not a good Philly cheesteak, see .... _because there aren't any_.
> 
> There!


----------



## trappedslider

el-remmen said:


> Ever start a thread and then immediately re-read it and think, "Welp, not coming back to see any of the responses to this!"?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(I mean, aside from @Snarf Zagyg, we know that's his M.O.)



I know someone else who has that M.O at least with threads in this section of the forums, but he hasn't started any recently.


----------



## Cadence

"Man!  They changed the menu at Subway!!!  If I want my old favorite I have to go out of my way to custom order it.  And the Chipotle is Baja instead of Southwest.  

I'm betrayed and going to Jersey Mike's now!  Where I will grouse that they don't have Pizza for the small member of the family."


----------



## Ryujin

Asisreo said:


> But then why did the wizard roll a d20?
> 
> The dragon must've been extremely weak if it got killed by a cantrip.
> 
> And I've noticed a distinct lack of of dungeons!



Do you think that they could suck anyone into our particular perverse passion if they showed what we really do; wandering around university steam tunnels with foam swords, slowly going off our collective nuts?


----------



## CleverNickName

Well things seem to be going about as well as expected in there.


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *Something poll-boy is certain to understand!




That's poll-MAN, mister. . .


----------



## Cadence

If you bring up your own particular pet-peeve more often in more threads than we bring up pizza here... then it just might be a bit too much.  

If one or two of us sympathize for a change when you bring it up next, would you stop, or just do it more?


----------



## Hussar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> /snip
> 
> Except for Japan. I ... have nothing.
> _
> ......tentacles._




I'll cop to that one.  I've actually made this for my little girls when they were taking their lunchboxes to school.  It's actually surprisingly tasty - makes the hotdog a lot crunchier.

OTOH, can I just say that in Japan, sausages and bacon SUCKS FETID DINGO KIDNEYS!  How freaking hard is it to make a decent sausage?  FFS.  Their idea of a sausage is an Oscar Meyer weiner.  GRRRR.


----------



## Cadence

"Why did you have to bring that up!  You could have let it pass, but no....   And then, me=pot, you=kettle, and here we are.  Doh!"


----------



## Benjamin Olson

el-remmen said:


> Ever start a thread and then immediately re-read it and think, "Welp, not coming back to see any of the responses to this!"?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(I mean, aside from @Snarf Zagyg, we know that's his M.O.)



I've never done that with my own thread. But a few weeks back I posted a message on a thread about a topic I didn't particularly care about, came back the next day, saw in my notifications that four people had quoted the post and none of them liked it, and decided... yep, not going back there.


----------



## Cadence

"I keep going to this pizza place, and they keep serving me pizza!  Why won't they give me a hot dog when it's clear that hot dogs are so much better!"


----------



## Cadence

"So when I go out to eat and have $10 cash and a $10 gift card, it feels great to use the cash on munchies and the gift card on the beer.  But it feels really wrong to do it the other way and spend cash on the beer and the gift card on the munchies!"


----------



## Hussar

Oh good.  It's 2006 all over again.  Sigh.  You could hold some of this stuff up and see it repeating itself word for word.


----------



## Cadence

"If they make Tuna an opt-out ingredient on the menu, then I'll stop getting Pizza here!"

"Sure... but will you stop posting about it too?"


----------



## Hatmatter

I got so embittered reading the negative, narrow-minded reactions to the One D&D announcement. If anyone searches my posting history, you would see I have been very much against a new edition. Now Wizards announces their plan and releases a first extensive play test and I observe Wizards working toward a refined, improved version of the same game we have been playing that will preserve previous character options and, at the same time, work to expand them. Further, Wizards continues to demonstrate commitment to play testing and drawing from the player base to shape what will amount to a refinement of the existing game. 

The result here: mixed at best. Whine, whine, whine. And, also dispiriting, a bunch of people jumping on the "they're only doing it for the money" bandwagon, as if the designers working on the game do not deeply care about the game and are also invested in shepherding the game for which they have responsibility. So many people here seem so...emotional and, frankly, unintelligent: as if the world only exists in stark, polarized terms for them. Of course a company has a bottom line and Wizards contributes to Hasbro's stock value, but Wizards has continuously demonstrated a commitment and creative investment in the role-playing game community. I read very little acknowledgment of that in these forums.

Another gripe that I do not care to inflict on others (except here in this safe space): people complaining about changes to books like the three-volume format for Spelljammer with smaller books as if it is cost-cutting and Wizards is engaged in a unabashed cash-grab without nuance when Wizards has been releasing material for free for years...including a free Spelljammer pdf released just a month ago. As if there is not an at-the-table advantage by having a player-centered book and DM's books.

I think I am going to step away from Enworld for a bit. I have a feeling that I would not want to be friends with many of the negative, sky-is-falling people here. Oh well. I'll likely feel better about Enworld in time...which is why I am letting off steam here.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hatmatter said:


> I think I am going to step away from Enworld for a bit. I have a feeling that I would not want to be friends with many of the negative, sky-is-falling people here. Oh well. I'll likely feel better about Enworld in time...which is why I am letting off steam here.




So ... a few suggestions. (I changed my emoticon from a sad, because you're leaving, to a thumbs up, because you're right, BTW).

1. If there are a few people that are really toxic about the subject, just put them on your block list for a while.

2. Avoid threads that will anger your blood. Don't even look.

3. Feel free to hang out here! We all just hang out, have fun, exchange drink recipes, and make fun of Chicago deep dish pizza casserole. 

4. Try and remember that people will always initially react negatively to things that are new. And that people are more likely to talk about the things they don't like because the things they do like are a given!


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 3. Feel free to hang out here! We all just hang out, have fun, exchange drink recipes, and make fun of Chicago deep dish pizza casserole.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


>


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 4. Try and remember that people will always initially react negatively to things that are new. And that people are more likely to talk about the things they don't like because the things they do like are a given!



I think I must have become calloused to this process after going through it about 3-4 times now. Imma try and make an effort to be positive, and when that fails, at least constructive and ultimately fair.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> I think I must have become calloused to this process after going through it about 3-4 times now. Imma try and make an effort to be positive, and when that fails, at least constructive and ultimately fair.



"Right now, I'm devoting a great deal of time and study to that problem, and I expect to issue a position paper on that. A position that is at once simple, yet complex. Flexible, and above all else, fair... to every American." - Les Nessman, 1979.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> I think I must have become calloused to this process after going through it about 3-4 times now. Imma try ad make an effort to be positive, and when that fails, at least constructive and ultimately fair.



My mechanism is to just fully embrace nihilism. To quote the famous nihilist philosopher Karl Hungus: 

_*We believe in nothing, Lebowski.* *Nothing.* 

*

*_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

@Hatmatter 

I set this thread up for you (and everyone else)-









						[+] The things I like about D&D One Playtest, and the things I LOVE!
					

This is NOT going to be one of my giant, 20,000 word essays about the history you never wanted to know. Instead, it's a thread started.  PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS A "PLUS" (+) THREAD. THAT MEANS I AM REQUESTING POSITIVE CONTRIBUTIONS ABOUT THE THREAD TOPIC.  There are approximately 394 threads...




					www.enworld.org
				





Let's see how it goes!


----------



## Gradine

The "I Didn't Comment In Another Thread" and Pizza Crappost Thread


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> My mechanism is to just fully embrace nihilism. To quote the famous nihilist philosopher Karl Hungus:
> 
> _*We believe in nothing, Lebowski.* *Nothing.*
> 
> *View attachment 258362*_



Already ahead of you.


----------



## Hatmatter

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So ... a few suggestions. (I changed my emoticon from a sad, because you're leaving, to a thumbs up, because you're right, BTW).
> 
> 1. If there are a few people that are really toxic about the subject, just put them on your block list for a while.
> 
> 2. Avoid threads that will anger your blood. Don't even look.
> 
> 3. Feel free to hang out here! We all just hang out, have fun, exchange drink recipes, and make fun of Chicago deep dish pizza casserole.
> 
> 4. Try and remember that people will always initially react negatively to things that are new. And that people are more likely to talk about the things they don't like because the things they do like are a given!



Thanks, I think these are good suggestions. I will hang out here and in the new thread that Snarf Zagyg set up. It was a little hard for me to at first avoid the One D&D thread because, after having such skepticism about the announcement of a new edition last year, I was so elated when I listened to the one hour video interview with Jeremy Crawford and the One D&D official announcement, and having looked over the playtest material, that I wanted to run to the Enworld forum on the subject and share the good news with my fellow role-players. And then I saw such negativity, sometimes for "reasons" that were directly contradicted in this material that Wizards obviously put great care into creating.

By the way, I am definitely a thin slice, NYC style guy. I grew up in Detroit not far from Chicago and I found the deep dish version enchanting, until I actually had a NYC thin slice. No contest in my mind.

Y'all are great. Thanks for the support and for enduring my own kvetching with support and care.


----------



## Hatmatter

Snarf Zagyg said:


> @Hatmatter
> 
> I set this thread up for you (and everyone else)-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [+] The things I like about D&D One Playtest, and the things I LOVE!
> 
> 
> This is NOT going to be one of my giant, 20,000 word essays about the history you never wanted to know. Instead, it's a thread started.  PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS A "PLUS" (+) THREAD. THAT MEANS I AM REQUESTING POSITIVE CONTRIBUTIONS ABOUT THE THREAD TOPIC.  There are approximately 394 threads...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.enworld.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how it goes!



That was so thoughtful, Snarf. Thanks!


----------



## eyeheartawk

On a meta level, my actual favorite thing about the new playtest stuff is that we will _actually have concrete new rules to discuss. _Rather than arguing about the minutiae of hypothetical speculation on future rules.


----------



## el-remmen

Hatmatter said:


> I think I am going to step away from Enworld for a bit. I have a feeling that I would not want to be friends with many of the negative, sky-is-falling people here. Oh well. I'll likely feel better about Enworld in time...which is why I am letting off steam here.




I had a weird and growing feeling of unsettlement yesterday and when I opened up the forums today and saw all the threads it hit me, the last time I left ENWorld (for over a decade, save for an occasional check-in with little or no posting every few years) it was when 4E came out. By that time I was playing the D&D I wanted to play in that moment and didn't need to discuss a new or old edition ad nauseum.

I missed D&DNext altogether and didn't come back until 2019-20 when I ordered the three core 5E books on blind faith and started running a 5E game.

Before all  that I weathered being one of the few 3.0 holdouts when 3.5 came out (I just did what it seems like WotC is suggesting we do now, took what I liked about the new "non-edition" and left the rest. Heck, I even adopted 4E second winds to my 3E games a few years later).

Anyway, my point is that every time there is a new edition or "not-really-a-new-edition-but-really-a-new" edition or even supplement introducing new rules with far-reaching implications, ENWorld goes through some upheaval and can be a hard place to hang out if you don't want to argue about them, regardless of what they actually are.  I don't blame anyone for taking a break.


----------



## RealAlHazred

One D&D is possibly the worst thing to ever happen, not just to D&D, but to THE WORLD. Its mechanics (which I haven't seen yet) are the WORST GAME MECHANICS ever to grace a printed page! It is a travesty to gaming in general, and a specific blot on the record of Wizards of the Coast. It's just sad that they have to COMPLETELY RUIN the BEST version of the game, OD&D / B/X / BECMI / AD&D 1E / AD&D 2E / D&D 3E / D&D 3.5 / D&D 5E (choose one).


----------



## el-remmen

Btw, since returning to ENWorld I have often expressed to a friend that these forums are the _least worst option_ I've found for discussing D&D. I have not found any other community I remotely had any interest in hanging around the way I imagine I'd want to hang around (save for this thread - which is weird - Maybe we need to start a D&D-Pizza Discord just for the regulars on it  )


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> Btw, since returning to ENWorld I have often expressed to a friend that these forums are the _least worst option_ I've found for discussing D&D. I have not found any other community I remotely had any interest in hanging around the way I imagine I'd want to hang around (save for this thread - which is weird - Maybe we need to start a D&D-Pizza Discord just for the regulars on it  )



Just give us time...


----------



## Galandris

This thread is pizza.
The rest of ENworld is pineapple pizza.
The rest of the Net is the cardboard that used to contain a pineapple pizza.


----------



## eyeheartawk

el-remmen said:


> (save for this thread - which is weird - Maybe we need to start a D&D-Pizza Discord just for the regulars on it  )



We should make it look exactly like The Piazza, but just call it The Pizza.


----------



## el-remmen

Galandris said:


> This thread is pizza.
> The rest of ENworld is pineapple pizza.
> The rest of the Net is the cardboard that used to contain a pineapple pizza.




But I like pineapple (and ham and bacon) on my pizza. . . !. wait, what are we talking about again?


----------



## billd91

el-remmen said:


> Btw, since returning to ENWorld I have often expressed to a friend that these forums are the _least worst option_ I've found for discussing D&D. I have not found any other community I remotely had any interest in hanging around the way I imagine I'd want to hang around (save for this thread - which is weird - Maybe we need to start a D&D-Pizza Discord just for the regulars on it  )



There are some OK forums on Facebook, but they suck to navigate. The most important element that I think helps is relatively strong, yet not super nitpicky moderation. ENWorld sometimes borders on the nitpick, but not nearly has much as some others. Nor is it a total free-for-all, again, like some others (including bad Facebook groups and the Twitter cesspit).


----------



## el-remmen

billd91 said:


> There are some OK forums on Facebook, but they suck to navigate. The most important element that I think helps is relatively strong, yet not super nitpicky moderation. ENWorld sometimes borders on the nitpick, but not nearly has much as some others. Nor is it a total free-for-all, again, like some others (including bad Facebook groups and the Twitter cesspit).




Yeah, I almost never open Facebook on my laptop and don't want to visit forums on my phone (old man, bad eyes, fat fingers) and don't belong to any facebook groups.  Twitter feels like it is mostly sharing memes or people who actually act like the worse stereotype of the "Everything must be RAW" gamer.  Instagram has a great maker community if you are into minis and terrain (and some homebrewing) - but there is less back and forth and more just people sharing.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> There are some OK forums on Facebook, but they suck to navigate. The most important element that I think helps is relatively strong, yet not super nitpicky moderation. ENWorld sometimes borders on the nitpick, but not nearly has much as some others. Nor is it a total free-for-all, again, like some others (including bad Facebook groups and the Twitter cesspit).



"Come on! Get a Twitter account!!" say my friends, who routinely have to go on 'Twitter Holiday."


----------



## RealAlHazred

Really, the best discussion can be found on Discord. Good luck searching for anything, though!


----------



## payn

RealAlHazred said:


> Really, the best discussion can be found on Discord. Good luck searching for anything, though!



Christ, if that isn't the way of it? Reddit is good for getting a question answered, Twitter is good for announcements, but you really have to look elsewhere for discussion. Otherwise, social media is mostly for people's cats and racist rants.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Otherwise, social media is mostly for people's cats and racist rants.



But what if I have a racist cat?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> But I like pineapple (and ham and bacon) on my pizza. . . !. wait, what are we talking about again?




See, a metaphor is like a simile, but similes are metaphors.


----------



## J.Quondam

eyeheartawk said:


> But what if I have a racist cat?



Yahoo comments might the best bet, then.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Apropos of nothing (which makes this thread perfect) I feel a great sense of Schadenfreude (which isn't something I usually feel) for the developers of *Untamed Isles*. I didn't back the Kickstarter, but apparently they hid the fact from backers that they used a big portion of the cool half-mill they made on KS to invest in crypto. Now that the ass has dropped out of the crypto market, they are closing up shop -- and NOT refunding any backers. I feel bad for the backers, many of whom were apparently unaware they were using funds for crypto investment, despite the fact that they mention it on the project page.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> I mean, we've already done the "is D&D like a pizza?" thread, so...



In case you thought I was joking, this, the first mention of pizza I can find in this thread, is from _page 15_.

It was also preceded by 10 pages of conversations about burritos, alcohol, sandwiches, and croque madames


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


> In case you thought I was joking, this, the first mention of pizza I can find in this thread, is from _page 15_.
> 
> It was also preceded by 10 pages of conversations about burritos, alcohol, sandwiches, and croque madames



You can tell nobody on the thread is from Pennsylvania, we would have been talking about our crudité bought from Wegner's...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> In case you thought I was joking, this, the first mention of pizza I can find in this thread, is from _page 15_.
> 
> It was also preceded by 10 pages of conversations about burritos, alcohol, sandwiches, and croque madames




I was like ... croque madames? And then I went back and looked, and apparently someone had the following unhinged rant about Thom Yorke:



> At half of the Radiohead concerts I have been to, Yorke has gone on some kind of rant about how the croque monsieur is the best of all sandwiches, and the king of the grilled cheese. Which really raises a lot of questions- after all, given that he is a vegan, is this some sort of Proust-ian reverie, his madeleine? Has he found a really good and melt-y vegan cheese?
> 
> Other people might be keying on things like the ham, but really, what about the béchamel sauce? What is Yorke's secret? I think he mumbled the recipe at one concert, but I could not make out the words- probably because he was noshing on one of his famous sammies.
> 
> Anyway, at one of the shows, someone in the crowd called out, "Croque Madame, you poseur!" And that just set him off. He was just like ... "What? An egg? You can't just put eggs on anything you want and make them something new!" And then he segued into that song ... _Every egg in its right place_.
> 
> Guy can put on a show. And make a mean vegan croque monsieur.




There are some true weirdos that have been on this thread!


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I was like ... croque madames? And then I went back and looked, and apparently someone had the following unhinged rant about Thom Yorke:
> 
> 
> 
> There are some true weirdos that have been on this thread!



Yes... _someone_...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Yes... _someone_...




Little known fact- I am, in fact, a collective. Every night, this account gets auctioned off.

Not on ebay. But it goes to the person who wrote longest and weirdest Yelp review that day.

_My name is Snarf: for we are many. And we have THOUGHTS about that pho restaurant that just opened up. _


----------



## el-remmen

RealAlHazred said:


> You can tell nobody on the thread is from Pennsylvania, we would have been talking about out crudité bought from Wegner's...



POLITICS! 










BTW, I live in Pittsburgh, but I am from the Planet of Brooklyn.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Little known fact- I am, in fact, a collective. Every night, this account gets auctioned off.
> 
> Not on ebay. But it goes to the person who wrote longest and weirdest Yelp review that day.
> 
> _My name is Snarf: for we are many. And we have THOUGHTS about that pho restaurant that just opened up. _



I admittedly got very "three Kobolds in an overcoat" vibe.


----------



## Gradine

I have my own theories but I'm keeping them under wraps


----------



## Tutara

“I just don’t care what you have to say because it’s pure mince”

Oh my, it works! This covers a multitude of fora, incidentally.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I love this thread. One second we had the heartfelt disappointment of a poster about possibly having to leave the forums and some responders giving recommendations on how to avoid all of the negativity on the site . . . and the next we have a bunch of people commenting about pizza and hotdogs  (some of which might be metaphors, but I got lost in them a hundred pages back). 

Y'all are awesome.


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> POLITICS!



Not really. The commercial just made me laugh out loud in its sheer absurdity!


----------



## eyeheartawk

RealAlHazred said:


> Not really. The commercial just made me laugh out loud in its sheer absurdity!



It does have big "How do you do, fellow children" vibes. With crudite.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

And the lesson I learned today was that, whereas in real life admitting some fault can be a way to build trust and improve your credibility, in a busy thread on a day full of busy threads, where everyone is just skipping to the most recent posts, the only part they'll read is that you're at fault for something.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Little known fact- I am, in fact, a collective. Every night, this account gets auctioned off.
> 
> Not on ebay. But it goes to the person who wrote longest and weirdest Yelp review that day.
> 
> _My name is Snarf: for we are many. And we have THOUGHTS about that pho restaurant that just opened up. _






Ryujin said:


> I admittedly got very "three Kobolds in an overcoat" vibe.



Personally, I was thinking along the lines of "a thousand monkeys, one cup keyboard."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Personally, I was thinking along the lines of "a thousand monkeys, one cup keyboard."




So what you're saying is ... I might still write _Hamlet_!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Some people on this site are really getting really, really angry over an argument that is literally just semantics. I don't care what you call it, the name is not as important as the contents of the thing you're referencing.


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> Personally, I was thinking along the lines of "a thousand monkeys, one cup keyboard."



I still remember one of my bosses asking me how a project delivery that we got from a customer looked.

Me: "You know that thing about a million monkeys on a million typewriters producing the works of Shakespeare over a million years?"
Him: "Yes..."
Me: "Three monkeys, ten minutes."


----------



## Malmuria

RealAlHazred said:


> Apropos of nothing (which makes this thread perfect) I feel a great sense of Schadenfreude (which isn't something I usually feel) for the developers of *Untamed Isles*. I didn't back the Kickstarter, but apparently they hid the fact from backers that they used a big portion of the cool half-mill they made on KS to invest in crypto. Now that the ass has dropped out of the crypto market, they are closing up shop -- and NOT refunding any backers. I feel bad for the backers, many of whom were apparently unaware they were using funds for crypto investment, despite the fact that they mention it on the project page.



kickstarter and crowd funding needs to be better regulated.  And, as it relates to ttrpgs, maybe we should stop the endless "$1M kickstarter!!!" hype train that is mostly a dice and plushies sub-hobby.


----------



## Scribe

The weeks/months of discussion we are going to see regarding races, classes, gods?


----------



## TwoSix

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Some people on this site are really getting really, really angry over an argument that is literally just semantics. I don't care what you call it, the name is not as important as the contents of the thing you're referencing.



It's really just a new edition of an old argument.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

What is this crud-ite y'all keep going on about. Fossilized dino-droppings?


----------



## J.Quondam

Scribe said:


> The weeks/months of discussion we are going to see regarding races, classes, gods?



Sad to say that I already feel burnt out on new edition talk in the 8 months 26 hours since WotC dropped the announcement.


----------



## Scribe

J.Quondam said:


> Sad to say that I already feel burnt out on new edition talk in the 8 months 26 hours since WotC dropped the announcement.



I'm about that Chaos. I was just on the road all night yesterday.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Spoiler: Short rant about a thread that got revived



Ugh, that thread about the Radiant Citadel got revived. I know I should feel happy that I was right about the book not being "kiddy D&D", but the fact that it was revived just brings back the frustration that so many people got extremely angry at the book for having bright colors.


----------



## Galandris

Was there an edition war going from 4th to 5th?





J.Quondam said:


> Sad to say that I already feel burnt out on new edition talk in the 8 months 26 hours since WotC dropped the announcement.




It can't be an edition war is this isn't a new edition. They made it perfectly clear in the video. 

I fully expect player A to be critted by monsters and crit with his spells while player B will only be subject to recharge attack. After the next non-edition, retrocompatibility will be improved so A and B can play alongside player C, who will roll initiative in order to get to Broadwalk and buy it first (using his micro-transactionned limousine token).


----------



## Gradine

el-remmen said:


> Just so there's a record of evidence when I turn out to be wrong. . .  my prediction for my three (so far) D&D setting polls are as follows:
> 
> 
> Forgotten Realms: Overwhelmingly leaning towards "True"
> Greyhawk: Leaning significantly towards "False"
> Eberron: About 50/50 or maybe 40/60 in either direction.



For the record, at this point:
Eberron: 56%
Groghawk: 61%
Homebrew: 73%
Forgotten Realms: 84%


----------



## J.Quondam

Galandris said:


> It can't be an edition war is this isn't a new edition. They made it perfectly clear in the video.



_"We have always been at war with Eastasia!"_


----------



## Malmuria

Gradine said:


> For the record, at this point:
> Eberron: 56%
> Groghawk: 61%
> Homebrew: 73%
> Forgotten Realms: 84%



Groghawk!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Gradine said:


> For the record, at this point:
> Eberron: 56%
> Groghawk: 61%
> Homebrew: 73%
> Forgotten Realms: 84%



And, as a note, I only _technically _ran a Greyhawk campaign. I ran the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh one shot. _Once._ For my younger sisters. That proceeded to have a TPK by jumping down a well filled with Giant Constrictor Snakes. And I didn't mention anything specific to the world beyond the (apparently now) setting-neutral Saltmarsh. So, that barely counts.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I, on the other hand, ran Living Greyhawk for over 6 years. Which, I believe was de-canonized afterwards. So, I guess that also only barely counts.


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Groghawk: 61%


----------



## billd91

Galandris said:


> Was there an edition war going from 4th to 5th?



Was? You wouldn’t think so watching some posters.


----------



## eyeheartawk

You know, I wasn't around these boards during 4th. What was the ratio of posts back then of 4th vs previous editions?


----------



## Deset Gled

eyeheartawk said:


> You know, I wasn't around these boards during 4th. What was the ratio of posts back then of 4th vs previous editions?




When 4e was out, the site was mainly 4e but there was still a significant amount of 3.Xe traffic.  Pathfinder was also bigger.  Pre-3e talk happened, but was generally of lower quantity.  Which all makes a ton of sense if you know that ENWorld started as a 3E news website, and was a big 3E rules site when it was the current edition.  OSR (and 2e, etc) have gotten significantly increased traction in the 5e era.

This is all based on my personal, flawed, biased memories..


----------



## payn

Deset Gled said:


> When 4e was out, the site was mainly 4e but there was still a significant amount of 3.Xe traffic.  Pathfinder was also bigger.  Pre-3e talk happened, but was generally of lower quantity.  Which all makes a ton of sense if you know that ENWorld started as a 3E news website, and was a big 3E rules site when it was the current edition.  OSR (and 2e, etc) have gotten significantly increased traction in the 5e era.
> 
> This is all based on my personal, flawed, biased memories..



Thats pretty close. I recall a lot of 3E love for the early parts of the edition. Then, some hate about 3.5, then some love again. Then, mountains of hate for 3E before 4E came around. 4E dropped and it was bad, really bad. Heavy moderation, separate subforums (a big thing at the time.) Eventually, folks who didn't like 4E left for other places and it got pretty good for 4E talk. Then, essentials pissed people off, and next got announced. This time they had separate sub-forums for warlords and damage on a miss (DOAM). 5E got some love on release, and then folks enjoyed for a few years, and then they started getting anxious for a new edition, and then...


----------



## Malmuria

Hot take: dnd is not only a lifestyle brand, it's dominance in the hobby also means that it's an anti-lifestyle brand.  I've seen everyone from pathfinder youtubers, OSR people, and indie gamers on twitter react to this playtest.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


>


----------



## billd91

Christ on a crutch, this place has gone nutso.


----------



## Malmuria

billd91 said:


> Christ on a crutch, this place has gone nutso.



don't check twitter...


----------



## Mad_Jack

One of the more useful side benefits of being a borderline sociopath is that most of the time I just don't care what other people think and just can't generally be arsed to follow any sort of drama all that closely. I was offline for the last two days and come back to news of a "new edition" being playtested and the same old apocalypses starting up (again.), and my reaction could best be summed up by "... huh.", and going to check if there was a new Order of the Stick yet.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> For the record, at this point:
> Eberron: 56%
> Groghawk: 61%
> Homebrew: 73%
> Forgotten Realms: 84%




#HOMEBREWCONFIRMED!


----------



## Cadence

"And then we sold our plasma to buy gold to emboss the covers with as a free gift to you!"

"Too cheap for platinum?"

"Why not something durable like titanium?"

"Why something metallic, do those of us who like colors or gems not get a version?"

"But now the covers won't match all the others I own!"

"You should have just given blood to the red cross!"


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> #HOMEBREWCONFIRMED!


----------



## prabe

Am I bad for thinking both sides of an argument can be both right and wrong?


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Am I bad for thinking both sides of an argument can be both right and wrong?



Actually, more folks ought to think that way.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> "And then we sold our plasma to buy gold to emboss the covers with as a free gift to you!"
> 
> "Too cheap for platinum?"
> 
> "Why not something durable like titanium?"
> 
> "Why something metallic, do those of us who like colors or gems not get a version?"
> 
> "But now the covers won't match all the others I own!"
> 
> "You should have just given blood to the red cross!"




 "You should have included a sample of your blood with each book, so that we can cast curses on you if we don't like it."


----------



## Cadence

For the love of God, someone give a California all the water in the Mississippi if that's what it takes.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> For the love of God, someone give a California all the water in the Mississippi if that's what it takes.
> 
> View attachment 258510



Nope, we see what y'all did to the last river you got your mits on.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Nope, we see what y'all did to the last river you got your mits on.



I'm other side of the country from CA, but this is an emergency.  *PIZZA itself is at risk*.  Time to outlaw Ketchup use and convert all the BBQ to Carolina Mustard or Vinegar based.  War time footing people!  Emergency declarations!


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I'm other side of the country from CA, but this is an emergency.  *PIZZA itself is at risk*.  Time to outlaw Ketchup use and convert all the BBQ to Carolina Mustard or Vinegar based.  War time footing people!  Emergency declarations!



Now you're talkin!


----------



## J.Quondam

You'll pry my salsa out of my cold dead hands!


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> You'll pry my salsa out of my cold dead hands!



 My pizza and pasta living son is a pretty good shot...

But seriously, I'm picturing a post-tomatolyptic movie series about the ketchup-bbq-salsa-marinara-pizza wars and the fall of civilization.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> My pizza and pasta living son is a pretty good shot...
> 
> But seriously, I'm picturing a post-tomatolyptic movie series about the ketchup-bbq-salsa-marinara-pizza wars and the fall of civilization.



What perfect factions! I'd totally  play that RPG.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> My pizza and pasta living son is a pretty good shot...
> 
> But seriously, I'm picturing a post-tomatolyptic movie series about the ketchup-bbq-salsa-marinara-pizza wars and the fall of civilization.



We still got breakfast pizza!


----------



## Gradine

White sauce pizza is better anyway


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> White sauce pizza is better anyway




If you could convince my son that white sauces worked as a solid choice...


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> We still got breakfast pizza!




We had a Denver omelette slice of the day at the place I worked in the late 80s/early 90s.  Looking at this is making me hungry and wonder why I haven't made one since.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> My pizza and pasta living son is a pretty good shot...
> 
> But seriously, I'm picturing a post-tomatolyptic movie series about the ketchup-bbq-salsa-marinara-pizza wars and the fall of civilization.




#TEAMBLOODYMARY


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## el-remmen

How do _you _define "Red Light, Green Light, 1, 2, 3. . .?"


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> How do _you _define "Red Light, Green Light, 1, 2, 3. . .?"


----------



## J.Quondam

_“A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”_


----------



## billd91

Well, I‘m off with my Sherpa to scale Mount Molehill. I shall avoid the northeast approach because that’s where poor Mallory went wrong…


----------



## billd91

Ever notice how people make all sorts of allowance for the snarky comments and references they prefer but blow a gasket on ones they don’t?


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> Ever notice how people make all sorts of allowance for the snarky comments and references they prefer but blow a gasket on ones they don’t?




Allowance feels like its related a bit to benefit of the doubt.  If you've been around and we at least sometimes agree or have a good discussion that feels like it buys some benefit of the doubt.  If you're a relentless pineapple and tuna pizza knucklehead, then why on earth would I give you the doubt about anything else?

(Well, I'd like to think that was the reason.  Is it more likely that discussion boards are a blood sport, and getting the other side mod-ed is just good game theory?  Works in politics, why not here :-/    ).


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Ever notice how people make all sorts of allowance for the snarky comments and references they prefer but blow a gasket on ones they don’t?



Yes, yes, I have.


----------



## Scribe

billd91 said:


> Ever notice how people make all sorts of allowance for the snarky comments and references they prefer but blow a gasket on ones they don’t?



Every day.


----------



## el-remmen

I don't know what pizzerias are like in your neck of the woods (do you even have pizzerias?) but the way some people talk about pizza at their table on these forums I can only assume they just line up and slap each other with pizzas and try to get extra toppings when they can, until one side falls.

Might explain how Chicago "pizza" developed, more cushioning when you fall into it - assuming you don't drown.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## el-remmen

Unrelated:
Aren't you the guy always crying because he hasn't had anyone to eat pizza with for years upon years - and yet you are telling us how pizza is eaten?


----------



## Cadence

Update: So, putting the almost handful of people whose posts  consistently annoyed me most on ignore has definitely improved my EN experience.  I think it might have given me more patience to spare for some other posters too, but I'm not sure yet.


----------



## el-remmen

Gradine said:


> For the record, at this point:
> Eberron: 56%
> Groghawk: 61%
> Homebrew: 73%
> Forgotten Realms: 84%




My guess about Greyhawk was way off!


----------



## billd91

But... but... of course my preferences reflect the majority's preferences. They're so obviously the *right* ones...


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> But... but... of course my preferences reflect the majority's preferences. They're so obviously the *right* ones...



shadow cabal of Grogs says, "no..."


----------



## Aeson

I'm curious and even ventured into a couple of threads. You may have even seen me there. Then I remembered I don't like gronards, fanboys, purists, rules lawyers, nerds, geeks, or dweebs.


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> I'm curious and even ventured into a couple of threads. You may have even seen me there. Then I remembered I don't like gronards, fanboys, purists, rules lawyers, nerds, geeks, or dweebs.



It was nice knowing you...


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> It was nice knowing you...



I've been thrown out of finer establishments than this for less.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> For the love of God, someone give a California all the water in the Mississippi if that's what it takes.
> 
> View attachment 258510




 In Kim Harrison's _The Hollows_ novels, attempts to genetically modify a tomato back in the 1960's ended up spreading a virus that wiped out a quarter of the human population. They managed to adapt to living without tomatoes for sixty years. I think we can hold out for a year or two, lol.

(Of course, in the books, it's largely accepted that the human race survived in large part due to the fact that the sudden human population decrease resulted in other species such as vampires, weres and witches revealing their existence,all of whom were immune to the virus and many of whom had been in or assumed positions of power at the time.)


----------



## Gradine

el-remmen said:


> My guess about Greyhawk was way off!



I think you were thinking of the D&D community writ large and not Eric Noah's Groglandia, Land of the Grogs


----------



## el-remmen

Some people seem to think that anyone calling for considering a different framework for evaluating slicing pizza has automatically lost the argument.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Some people seem to think that anyone calling for considering a different framework for evaluating slicing pizza has automatically lost the argument.




I had a friend who asked if we could split a pizza in half.

So I cut it horizontally.


----------



## CleverNickName

"If you don't like feats and multiclassing, you can just take them out."

What 'taking stuff out of the PHB' looks like:


----------



## J.Quondam

It's unsettling that they use a round pizza-cutter to slice a round pizza, but for some reason they don't use a square pizza-cutter to slice a square pizza.


----------



## Aeson

J.Quondam said:


> It's unsettling that they use a round pizza-cutter to slice a round pizza, but for some reason they don't use a square pizza-cutter to slice a square pizza.



Probably as close as you'll get.


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> Probably as close as you'll get.
> 
> View attachment 258610




My favorite pizza slicer is something akin to

Pizza place I worked at had rectangular by the slice pans and circular to go ones, and it worked great with both.


----------



## Aeson

I never used anything like that to cut pizza. I could see a dough cutter being used.





Found this. I think it takes all the fun out of it.


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> I never used anything like that to cut pizza. I could see a dough cutter being used.
> View attachment 258616
> 
> 
> Found this. I think it takes all the fun out of it.
> View attachment 258617



The one I showed was the same one used to serve the slices. So double use.  I think we had a huge double bladed knife for the round ones too, but I never used it.


----------



## Aeson

That second picture was from a site called thisiswhyimbroke.com. Some of the items are not safe for work or sanity.


----------



## Aeson

Cadence said:


> The one I showed was the same one used to serve the slices. So double use.  I think we had a huge double bladed knife for the round ones too, but I never used it.



I worked at several pizza places but not one that sold by the slice. We always just those to take pizza out of the pan and into the box. Maybe by the slice places do things differently.


----------



## Cadence

I don't think some of you even watched them.


----------



## trappedslider

So, I finally got this stuff up on my wall, next month will be my other nerf gun and a cyberpunk 2077 poster.


----------



## payn

Speaking of Pizza, I was in the office a few times this week (been a long time), and one of my favorite skyway joints closed up.  

Edit;
If you are wondering what a skyway is, its a walkway on the second floor of buildings in down town mpls and St Paul. Its obvious why you have them when your winters are hellish.


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> Edit;
> If you are wondering what a skyway is, its a walkway on the second floor of buildings in down town mpls and St Paul. Its obvious why you have them when your winters are hellish.




 The Rhode Island Convention center is connected to a nearby hotel by one of those...


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> The Rhode Island Convention center is connected to a nearby hotel by one of those...



We become mole people for about 4-5 months every year. We have dozens connecting miles of city.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Speaking of Pizza, I was in the office a few times this week (been a long time), and one of my favorite skyway joints closed up.
> 
> Edit;
> If you are wondering what a skyway is, its a walkway on the second floor of buildings in down town mpls and St Paul. Its obvious why you have them when your winters are hellish.



Well acquainted with them from the several years (it felt like) I spent in Hell, I mean Hull, Quebec, over the course of one Winter.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> We become mole people for about 4-5 months every year. We have dozens connecting miles of city.



I remember when I first moved to the Twin Cities I saw some of the tunnels and thought to myself, _"This is ridiculous!--no one is ever actually going to need these things."_ One night in late January of that year around midnight it got down to sixty degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.

Tunnels are good.


----------



## Cadence

South by Southwest said:


> I remember when I first moved to the Twin Cities I saw some of the tunnels and thought to myself, _"This is ridiculous!--no one is ever actually going to need these things."_ One night in late January of that year around midnight it got down to sixty degrees below zero, Fahrenheit.
> 
> Tunnels are good.




When I was in Montreal for some conventions in April a few times, we really appreciated the tunnels there!


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> We become mole people for about 4-5 months every year. We have dozens connecting miles of city.




 So, you're like a were-gerbil or something, right?


----------



## dragoner

I have thought of moving to Minneapolis for the weather, I like cold.


----------



## payn

dragoner said:


> I have thought of moving to Minneapolis for the weather, I like cold.



MPLS is a great place to live. The winters can be a bit long, but I do enjoy the change of seasons.


----------



## Cadence

Swordbard, Bardlord, Warbard, and Bardmage?


----------



## Gradine

I love my little tucked away corner of North California coast; barely ever goes lower than 50 or higher than 65. Our "heat waves" sometimes hit 75


----------



## dragoner

payn said:


> MPLS is a great place to live. The winters can be a bit long, but I do enjoy the change of seasons.



It is, I have friends there as well.


----------



## dragoner

Gradine said:


> I love my little tucked away corner of North California coast; barely ever goes lower than 50 or higher than 65. Our "heat waves" sometimes hit 75



I lived up in Mendocino, even if it got hot inland, the coast was nice and cool. The coast itself is very beautiful.


----------



## Hussar

Heh. My daughter might be doing a home stay in Regina in March. 

She’s never really seen snow. 

I’m rather looking forward to it.


----------



## Aeson

Mad_Jack said:


> The Rhode Island Convention center is connected to a nearby hotel by one of those...



Atlanta has some connecting hotels with a mall. At Dragoncon you can go to most events and get something to eat without ever going outside. I think they know their clientele.


----------



## Cadence

What helps make sarcasm appropriate in a post?

Is it pretty much always bad if both the point made is false and the post wasn't funny?


----------



## Galandris

I am so glad this board is a sarcasm-free zone.


----------



## Ryujin

Hussar said:


> Heh. My daughter might be doing a home stay in Regina in March.
> 
> She’s never really seen snow.
> 
> I’m rather looking forward to it.



That's kind of like, "I've never seen a cat before." "OK, here's a cheetah."


----------



## South by Southwest

Galandris said:


> I am so glad this board is a sarcasm-free zone.



Nicely played.


----------



## Cadence

I have work to do.  I will not go through all of your past posts to find things you like that contradict the dictates you give and will not check out the various current references to see where the experts do in fact disagree. <loop back to start>


----------



## Cadence

That thing where if you said it about video games or books would probably draw in a lot of people with very strong opinions (even for ENWorld) and blow up the thread?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> That thing where if you said it about video games or books would probably draw in a lot of people with very strong opinions (even for ENWorld) and blow up the thread?




Do you know what I love?

The people who are all like, "You know what, I don't eat pineapple pizza. But I don't know why you get offended if I call people who eat pineapple pizza Mother Effers. I mean, it's just a term. Get over it. But I do eat pepperoni pizza. So that means I know more about pepperoni pizza than you do, and you better use the technical term for pepperoni pizza that comes from this blog in 2004 that you never read- yeah, pepperoni pizza eaters are 'The Greatest People on Earth.' What? What are you complaining about? It's just words. Sorry, it's just words, MFer. Seriously, what's the big deal?"


----------



## el-remmen

Both old school and new school players have fantasies about what old school play used to be like (when it wasn't quite as old) and both fantasies are wrong about pizza. ..  (am I doing this right?)


----------



## CleverNickName

Old-school pizza aficionado:  You know, pizza was so much better before the Internet ruined it.

Me:  What?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Both old school and new school players have fantasies about what old school play used to be like (when it wasn't quite as old) and both fantasies are wrong (about pizza. ..  am I doing this right?)




See, back in the day, we used to walk five miles in a snowstorm ... UPHILL ... just to eat one slice of pizza. ONE SLICE.

And we didn't have pineapple as a topping. No, we didn't have any toppings at all! If we asked for a topping, the pizzeria owner would smack us upside the head and throw us out. We got a piece of cheese, and we liked it ... WE LOVED IT. And then we'd have to walk back home, five miles in that snowstorm ... uphill again. With the memory of that single slice of pizza to keep us warm.

And that's how pizza should be. You yung 'uns, with your pineapple and your kimchi and your udon noodles and your jelly donuts on top of your pizza? You don't even know what real pizza is! No sir. You don't earn your pizza anymore. You barely taste it.


----------



## el-remmen

There was nothing wacky and weird and goofy about old school pizza toppings, unless there was, in which case it was approved by Gary Gygax (or was originally Dave Arnson's idea).


----------



## eyeheartawk

el-remmen said:


> There was nothing wacky and weird and goofy about old school pizza toppings, unless there was, in which case it was approved by Gary Gygax (or was originally Dave Arnson's idea).



You'd be surprised. There is controversy to this day on who _really _invented french bread pizza.


----------



## el-remmen

eyeheartawk said:


> You'd be surprised. There is controversy to this day on who _really _invented french bread pizza.




Little Known Fact: It used to be called "German Bread Pizza" but was changed during WW1 and later after 9/11 was briefly called "Freedom Bread Pizza"


----------



## billd91

el-remmen said:


> Little Known Fact: It used to be called "German Bread Pizza" but was changed during WW1 and later after 9/11 was briefly called "Freedom Bread Pizza"



And the most popular *topping* was sauerkraut - sorry - "Liberty Cabbage".
Edit: freakin' autocorrect changed my attempt to say topping with topic


----------



## el-remmen

Taking bets on the outcome of my poll on advantage. . .


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> Taking bets on the outcome of my poll on advantage. . .



Do I get to bet twice?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Taking bets on the outcome of my poll on advantage. . .




Do I get two chances to bet?

@Cadence ninja'd me.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> See, back in the day, we used to walk five miles in a snowstorm ... UPHILL ... just to eat one slice of pizza. ONE SLICE.
> 
> And we didn't have pineapple as a topping. No, we didn't have any toppings at all! If we asked for a topping, the pizzeria owner would smack us upside the head and throw us out. We got a piece of cheese, and we liked it ... WE LOVED IT. And then we'd have to walk back home, five miles in that snowstorm ... uphill again. With the memory of that single slice of pizza to keep us warm.
> 
> And that's how pizza should be. You yung 'uns, with your pineapple and your kimchi and your udon noodles and your jelly donuts on top of your pizza? You don't even know what real pizza is! No sir. You don't earn your pizza anymore. You barely taste it.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> And the most popular topic was sauerkraut - sorry - "Liberty Cabbage".



Which, by the way, is the name of a sketch comedy series that's being produced by friends (Liberty Cabbage, that is) 

_EDIT_ for link:



			https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCICaAry84z9MuItgKMhUCSA


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Ryujin said:


> Which, by the way, is the name of a sketch comedy series that's being produced by friends (Liberty Cabbage, that is)
> 
> _EDIT_ for link:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCICaAry84z9MuItgKMhUCSA



I'm always impressed that you're friends with ZOE.


----------



## Ryujin

Benjamin Olson said:


> I'm always impressed that you're friends with ZOE.



Don't be. They're great people who are incredibly friendly, so it's no big accomplishment.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Don't be. They're great people who are incredibly friendly, so it's no big accomplishment.




They say that people aren't defined by their friends, but by their enemies.

Which is my great regret in life is that I didn't have a chance to meet Fred Roger before he passed, because I'm sure I would have found a way to pi*s him off.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hot take:  pizza is never as bad as people claim it is.

Hater:  (chomp)  Ugh, this pizza is terrible!  (munch)  Seriously, it's just the worst!  (chomp, chew)  Why did they put onions on it?  (smack, slurp) Nobody likes onions (munch, smack).  You call this pizza?  (chomp, chomp)  Here's a nickel, go buy yourself a _real _pizza!  (chomp, burp)

Me: ...so, another slice then?

Hater:  ...yes please.


----------



## billd91

If my views don't win out, the election... sorry, play test... is rigged!


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> They say that people aren't defined by their friends, but by their enemies.




Matthew Broderick once fled from me like the punk he is. . . does that count?


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> Matthew Broderick once fled from me like the punk he is. . . does that count?



"Bueller! Bueller!"


----------



## el-remmen

My received wisdom about the history of pizza is superior and more accurate than anyone's so-called research into it. I've been eating pizza this whole time, what have they been doing? Eating crudité at the fancy parties rich PhDs and journalists hang out at before maybe reading some books on pizza, talking to pizza makers, scouring through receipts of people who bought pizza, re-checking the records of how much flour, yeast, tomato sauce, and cheese the pizzerias stocked, and examining the court documents of the infamous pizza suits of yesteryear? Hardly equal to what my Uncle Roscoe told me about the time his neighbor over heard a guy who knew someone who tried Dave Arneson's pizza said. .


----------



## Mezuka




----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> And we didn't have pineapple as a topping. No, we didn't have any toppings at all! If we asked for a topping, the pizzeria owner would smack us upside the head and throw us out. We got a piece of cheese, and we liked it ...




It seems you don't count cheese as topping. This makes me wonder: would you need to find five sort of cheese on your pizza for it to... a 4-cheese pizza?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Galandris said:


> It seems you don't count cheese as topping. This makes me wonder: would you need to find five sort of cheese on your pizza for it to... a 4-cheese pizza?




I don't count cheese as a topping, just as I don't count pizza crust as bottoming.


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I don't count cheese as a topping, just as I don't count pizza crust as bottoming.




But don't let that confuse you, some people will definitely bottom for pizza.


----------



## CleverNickName

*Scenes from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
Act I, Scene I

Tasha's:*  Welcome to Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything!  What would you like today?
*Customer:*  Do you have pineapple?
*Tasha's:  *Absolutely!  Would you like that on thin crust, or hand toss--
*Customer: * How _dare_ you.  Pineapple doesn't _belong_ on pizza!
*Tasha's:*  Um...so you wouldn't like pineapple, then?
*Customer:* _Of course not_!  It's not a pizza topping!
*Tasha's:*  Whatever you say, sir, it's no problem at all!  Could I interest you in any of our other toppings?
*Customer: * Maybe.  Do you have...(scrolls through their phone)...anchovies and black olives?
*Tasha's:  *Certainly!  We have a full list of options on page seven--
*Customer:*  This is an _outrage!_  Doesn't anybody like _real pizza _anymore?!
*Tasha's: * There's really no need to get upset, sir.  We can make a pizza with any toppings you like.
*Customer:  *_Yes I understand that_, but _other_ people are ordering the _wrong_ toppings!  Aren't you going to _stop_ them?!
*Tasha's: * We don't really do that here.
*Customer: *They're _ruining everything!!_
*Tasha's:  *We think everyone should be able to eat what they like.
*Customer:*  Oh how _typical._  Another victory for the Twitter crowd, huh?  Hope you like _going broke,_ loser.
*Tasha's:*  I think you should probably--
*Customer:* (makes an obscene hand gesture, slams the door on their way out)
*Tasha's: * What a strange person.
*Next Customer:  *I swear this neighborhood gets weirder every year.


----------



## el-remmen

If you don't see me on the boards for a while it is because I am working on my screenplay for a dark comedy where playing D&D is friggin' miserable no matter what you do, and the whole point is for everyone involved to do their best to aggravate and enrage everyone else who plays and they mostly succeed simply by talking about how they play or like to play.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> But don't let that confuse you, some people will definitely bottom for pizza.




I mean, some people hear Pizza Hut, and they are all about the Meat Lovers.


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> If you don't see me on the boards for a while it is because I am working on my screenplay for a dark comedy where playing D&D is friggin' miserable no matter what you do, and the whole point is for everyone involved to do their best to aggravate and enrage everyone else who plays and they mostly succeed simply by talking about how they play or like to play.



I have a draft manuscript.  Are you interested in a collab?


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> I have a draft manuscript.  Are you interested in a collab?




You'll be hearing from my lawyers.


----------



## trappedslider

el-remmen said:


> If you don't see me on the boards for a while it is because I am working on my screenplay for a dark comedy where playing D&D is friggin' miserable no matter what you do, and the whole point is for everyone involved to do their best to aggravate and enrage everyone else who plays and they mostly succeed simply by talking about how they play or like to play.





CleverNickName said:


> I have a draft manuscript.  Are you interested in a collab?



I also have an idea for an ending: It's all inside the DM's mind or it turns out they are all dead or both...


----------



## Bolares

HOW ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT PIZZA???! (and now I want one)


----------



## CleverNickName

Bolares said:


> HOW ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT PIZZA???! (and now I want one)


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I also have an idea for an ending: It's all inside the DM's mind or it turns out they are all dead or both...



Spoilers!


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Spoilers!



Could have had a three if you'd used Tasha's or One instead of picking the wrong race in DnD2014!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Not sure where to put this, and don't feel like starting a separate thread, so it goes here.

_The Rehearsal _was absolutely amazing. I've heard people try and describe it ... "cringe comedy," is a phrase I've heard, but that's not right. It isn't remotely that. The closest comparator I kept thinking of when I was watching it was probably the movie, _Synecdoche, New York_. But while that's close, that's not it either.

More like _Synecdoche _crossed with_ Review _(with Andy Daly) with just a bit of Nathan Fiedler's previous show (_Nathan for You_) thrown in.

The less you know going in, the better.


----------



## payn

You know you are off to a stellar start when you post a new thread with 8 paragraphs about a thing, and the first post says its not a thing.


----------



## J.Quondam




----------



## Scribe

J.Quondam said:


> View attachment 258740



Me, when I see the guy who blocked me yesterday ended up banned today.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> You know you are off to a stellar start when you post a new thread with 8 paragraphs about a thing, and the first post says its not a thing.



I counted and it was actually 15 paragraphs. Which, given the OP, it's actually remarkably restrained


----------



## Mad_Jack

Hussar said:


> Heh. My daughter might be doing a home stay in Regina in March.
> 
> She’s never really seen snow.
> 
> I’m rather looking forward to it.




  Years ago, at a Rocky Horror mini-con in Allentown, PA, it started snowing.
 The wind was going pretty good, so the snow was literally blowing sideways.
One of the guys from one of the CA casts was standing by the window with his head tilted all the way over, watching the snow, and asking, "Is snow supposed to do that?" 

 And my internal monologue was all like, "Y'all ain't from 'round here, is ya?"   





Snarf Zagyg said:


> They say that people aren't defined by their friends, but by their enemies.
> 
> Which is my great regret in life is that I didn't have a chance to meet Fred Roger before he passed, because I'm sure I would have found a way to pi*s him off.




 I have no doubt I could have gotten Mother Teresa and the Pope to try to kick me in the junk if I really wanted to... 

I prefer to be defined by my lack of enemies - I like to think of them as "volunteers to help keep me entertained".





el-remmen said:


> If you don't see me on the boards for a while it is because I am working on my screenplay for a dark comedy where playing D&D is friggin' miserable no matter what you do, and the whole point is for everyone involved to do their best to aggravate and enrage everyone else who plays and they mostly succeed simply by talking about how they play or like to play.




 So... You're basically transcribing the video I did of my last gaming session?


----------



## CleverNickName

I know that fighters aren't wizards, and I see how they have been structured to play differently than wizards: with different strengths, weaknesses, and abilities to let them fill a different niche in the game.  How is any of this a _problem?_  There are several threads in play now about "fixing" this "problem" and I don't see it.  What exactly are we trying to fix?  

But there's no way I would post this question in any of those threads, though.  No sir.  I've already seen what happens when people ask such questions in there.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> You know you are off to a stellar start when you post a new thread with 8 paragraphs about a thing, and the first post says its not a thing.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I know that fighters aren't wizards, and I see how they have been structured to play differently than wizards: with different strengths, weaknesses, and abilities to let them fill a different niche in the game.  How is any of this a _problem?_  There are several threads in play now about "fixing" this "problem" and I don't see it.  What exactly are we trying to fix?
> 
> But there's no way I would post this question in any of those threads, though.  No sir.  I've already seen what happens when people ask such questions in there.





And as a corollary-

Zeno: I want a good fighter!

Achilles: But there is a good fighter. I like the D&D fighter.

Zeno: No, I want an awesome, super-cool, superhero fighter. Like anime.

Achilles: Okay. What do you mean by that?

Zeno: I want a fighter that isn't constrained by regular fighter stuff. I want a fighter with a blade that booms, and that can jump like a spell, and can do all the cool stuff that spellcasters do, but is also a fighter!

Achilles: Have you tried an Eldritch Knight? Magic Initiate? Multiclassing with a dip? You can just add a few spells, like, oh, booming blade. Or jump. And then you have your fighter and all your cool effects, just like a spellcaster! You can totally have your anime cake, and eat it too!

Zeno: NO! I want a fighter, not a spellcaster. I don't want to ... CAST SPELLS.

Achilles: _sigh_


----------



## payn

prabe said:


>



Thats funny because I was just thinking of a type of post and what I want to nickname them. The type that has a stunning plethora of experience with RPGs, particularly non-D&D types. They enter every discussion and don't actually discuss the game, but post about how logically its not possible, or that it doesn't work that way in the future, or any other number of reasons to just blow a big raspberry on everyone's fun. "An intergalactic community is impossible, because faster than light travel is impossible" Thanks for stopping by and flipping our cake on the floor.


----------



## Aeson

Bolares said:


> HOW ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT PIZZA???! (and now I want one)



I don't think it's about pizza. It's some kind of code. I haven't been able to crack it yet. After a couple more slices I might figure it out.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> I don't think it's about pizza. It's some kind of code. I haven't been able to crack it yet.




See, that's the thing. You hear us talking about pizza, and you think that we are all smart and cultured, and that it is a layered conversation. That it's a code, and that there's something totally different lurking underneath the surface conversation about pizza.

But sometimes, there's a third, even deeper level, and that is the same as the top surface level. Like with a pie.


_That's right. It's pizzas all the way down. Pizza .... pie. _


----------



## Gradine

Aeson said:


> I don't think it's about pizza. It's some kind of code. I haven't been able to crack it yet. After a couple more slices I might figure it out.



Sometimes a pizza is just a pizza


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Sometimes a pizza is just a pizza


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## billd91

Can't resist the last word, can you?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


>




A PIZZA SLICE IS NOT JUST A DELIVERY VEHICLE SO YOU CAN STUFF YOUR PIE HOLE FULL OF MORE PINEAPPLE!


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You hear us talking about pizza, and you think that we are all smart and cultured



.... I don't.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> .... I don't.




Fine. You want cultured?

New topic of conversation ....

BEHOLD!






Yogurt pizza on a watermelon crust. I got yer culture right here!


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> But sometimes, there's a third, even deeper level, and that is the same as the top surface level.



So, does that mean pizza is a sandwich?


----------



## J.Quondam

Oh! I know, Alex! "What would happen if Gwyneth Paltrow bought the Domino's pizza chain?"


----------



## prabe

Mad_Jack said:


> So, does that mean pizza is a sandwich?



And if you fold it, it's both a taco *and* a sandwich.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Bolares said:


> HOW ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT PIZZA???! (and now I want one)



See, "pizza," in this context, is "edition of D&D." So, plain is B/X, and pepperoni is maybe AD&D 1E, and meat lover's is maybe 3.XE, and pineapple is maybe 4E, and 5th edition is a wet sock.

Unless, "pizza" is meant to be "game system," in which case plain is D&D, and pepperoni is RuneQuest, and onion/black olive/anchovy is Palladium, and 5th edition is a wet sock.

Unless unless, "pizza" actually means "pizza." Which is also sometimes the case. EDIT: And, in which case, fifth edition is still a wet sock.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Scribe

RealAlHazred said:


> See, "pizza," in this context, is "edition of D&D." So, plain is B/X, and pepperoni is maybe AD&D 1E, and meat lover's is maybe 3.XE, and pineapple is maybe 4E, and 5th edition is a wet sock.



Even as Pizza, 3.x wins.


----------



## Bolares

Why do I need a pizza that asks me to confirm critical roles and separates listen and spot in to two different skills?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Scribe said:


> Even as Pizza, 3.x wins.


----------



## Cadence

Bolares said:


> Why do I need a pizza that asks me to confirm critical roles and separates listen and spot in to two different skills?




Well, let's talk about about how the separate properties of hide and invisible interact with your senses in the case of the pizza you claim I ate but that I claim you buried the box of under your other gaming stuff.


----------



## Cadence

Had never noticed it before, but 5th edition really went back to 1st edition for Control Weather, and its a lot less all that than 3.5 was.

(Did not check 2nd or 4th).


----------



## trappedslider

I'm starting to think some folks want a permission slip for books:

"I'm sorry but in order to check out those books, i'll need a parent to sign this slip"

I was reading books in 4th grade that some would have deemed inappropriate for my age at that time. My mom didn't care what I was reading, she was just happy that I was reading.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Just when a vegetarian friend is visiting and I want to introduce her to "Scott Pilgrim"


----------



## Mannahnin

billd91 said:


> Christ on a crutch, this place has gone nutso.



Just got back today after a long weekend in Montreal for a boys' trip and to see Rammstein.  

It was amazing AND I missed out on madness?  The gods really love me lately.


payn said:


> We become mole people for about 4-5 months every year. We have dozens connecting miles of city.






Cadence said:


> When I was in Montreal for some conventions in April a few times, we really appreciated the tunnels there!



The last time I was there was in January 2020, and yeah, those tunnels are wonderful when you want them.



CleverNickName said:


> *Tasha's:*  Welcome to Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything!  What would you like today?
> *Customer:*  Do you have pineapple?
> *Tasha's:  *Absolutely!  Would you like that on thin crust, or hand toss--
> *Customer: * How _dare_ you.  Pineapple doesn't _belong_ on pizza!
> *Tasha's:*  Um...so you wouldn't like pineapple, then?
> *Customer:* _Of course not_!  It's not a pizza topping!
> *Tasha's:*  Whatever you say, sir, it's no problem at all!  Could I interest you in any of our other toppings?
> *Customer: * Maybe.  Do you have...(scrolls through their phone)...anchovies and black olives?
> *Tasha's:  *Certainly!  We have a full list of options on page seven--
> *Customer:*  This is an _outrage!_  Doesn't anybody like _real pizza _anymore?!
> *Tasha's: * There's really no need to get upset, sir.  We can make a pizza with any toppings you like.
> *Customer:  *_Yes I understand that_, but _other_ people are ordering the _wrong_ toppings!  Aren't you going to _stop_ them?!
> *Tasha's: * We don't really do that here.
> *Customer: *They're _ruining everything!!_
> *Tasha's:  *We think everyone should be able to eat what they like.
> *Customer:*  Oh how _typical._  Another victory for the Twitter crowd, huh?  Hope you like _going broke,_ loser.
> *Tasha's:*  I think you should probably--
> *Customer:* (makes an obscene hand gesture, slams the door on their way out)
> *Tasha's: * What a strange person.
> *Next Customer:  *I swear this neighborhood gets weirder every year.






payn said:


> Thats funny because I was just thinking of a type of post and what I want to nickname them. The type that has a stunning plethora of experience with RPGs, particularly non-D&D types. They enter every discussion and don't actually discuss the game, but post about how logically its not possible, or that it doesn't work that way in the future, or any other number of reasons to just blow a big raspberry on everyone's fun. "An intergalactic community is impossible, because faster than light travel is impossible" Thanks for stopping by and flipping our cake on the floor.



Both of these two posts make me feel like I'm on FB too much, because godsdamn do I want a Care react.  *Morrus!* (shakes fist at sky).


----------



## Umbran

J.Quondam said:


> Oh! I know, Alex! "What would happen if Gwyneth Paltrow bought the Domino's pizza chain?"




Answer: Goopy pizza.


----------



## Cadence

Yuck!


----------



## billd91

J.Quondam said:


> Oh! I know, Alex! "What would happen if Gwyneth Paltrow bought the Domino's pizza chain?"





Umbran said:


> Answer: Goopy pizza.



And you *really* don't want to know what the pizza is touted to smell like.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> And you *really* don't want to know what the pizza is touted to smell like.




This is one of those posts that's hard to click on the "like" button for.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> This is one of those posts that's hard to click on the "like" button for.



We need a payn button!


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> We need a payn button!



Are you saying the puke emoji should be named after me!?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Are you saying the puke emoji should be named after me!?



It is you who say so, not I!


----------



## el-remmen

This is me not responding to the kind of response that makes me want to simply ask how they can navigate the forums given that they clearly can't read.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> This is me not responding to a the kind of response that makes me want to simply ask how they can navigate the forums given that they clearly can't read.



What did I miss before typing this time?


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> This is me not responding to a the kind of response that makes me want to simply ask how they can navigate the forums given that they clearly can't read.



An infinite number of monkeys just getting lucky?


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> An infinite number of monkeys just getting lucky?


----------



## trappedslider

Can we rename this thread to "pizza and other topics"?


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> Can we rename this thread to "pizza and other topics"?



"Pineapple free pizza and other natural laws"


----------



## trappedslider

Cadence said:


> "Pineapple free pizza and other natural laws"



Almost went with "and other comments' but I figured the pun with topics would be better


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> I'm starting to think some folks want a permission slip for books:
> 
> "I'm sorry but in order to check out those books, i'll need a parent to sign this slip"
> 
> I was reading books in 4th grade that some would have deemed inappropriate for my age at that time. My mom didn't care what I was reading, she was just happy that I was reading.




If I remember right, I blew through the last book of _LOTR_ and _Of Mice and Men_ about a year or two after the last of my classmates were finishing up the "Sam and Ann" reading workbooks - I'd learned to read before I ever got to school by watching Sesame Street and The Electric Company. 
Which made me a real pain in the <bleep> for my teachers...

 They used to do book fairs at my elementary school, and _even the book fair people_ knew better than to try to suggest I wasn't old enough to read something - my mother wasn't a small woman, and came from a Sicilian family, lol...
She was just happy I was spending too much time reading books to be out _stealing_ the books.

I'm kind of glad I don't have kids - I'd be that parent that got arrested for punching out a teacher after they tried to turn my kid into a middle-of-the-road mush-brained drone.


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> If I remember right, I blew through the last book of _LOTR_ and _Of Mice and Men_ about a year or two after the last of my classmates were finishing up the "Sam and Ann" reading workbooks - I'd learned to read before I ever got to school by watching Sesame Street and The Electric Company.
> Which made me a real pain in the <bleep> for my teachers...
> 
> They used to do book fairs at my elementary school, and _even the book fair people_ knew better than to try to suggest I wasn't old enough to read something - my mother wasn't a small woman, and came from a Sicilian family, lol...
> She was just happy I was spending too much time reading books to be out _stealing_ the books.
> 
> I'm kind of glad I don't have kids - I'd be that parent that got arrested for punching out a teacher after they tried to turn my kid into a middle-of-the-road mush-brained drone.



"You can't excel. That would make the other kids feel bad." Public school, in most places, is like a real world "Harrison Bergeron."


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

"Man, I want pizza. Let's go hang out at out at Thin Crust Joe's"

A bit later...

"Dammit, this place would be so much better if it had thick crust!"

"Why is their pasta so mediocre?"

"How hard is it to offer tostadas too!"

Next week...

"Thin Crust Joe's again?"

"Sounds like a plan."

 "Like we'd go anywhere else!"


----------



## Hussar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> A PIZZA SLICE IS NOT JUST A DELIVERY VEHICLE SO YOU CAN STUFF YOUR PIE HOLE FULL OF MORE PINEAPPLE!



But, from time to time, it is a delivery vehicle for apple pie.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> "Man, I want pizza. Let's go hang out at out at Thin Crust Joe's"
> 
> A bit later...
> 
> "Dammit, this place would be so much better if it had thick crust!"
> 
> "Why is their pasta so mediocre?"
> 
> "How hard is it to offer tostadas too!"
> 
> Next week...
> 
> "Thin Crust Joe's again?"
> 
> "Sounds like a plan."
> 
> "Like we'd go anywhere else!"



I want my pizza to be more like Thor and less like Hawkeye.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> An infinite number of monkeys just getting lucky?



Three monkeys, ten minutes.


----------



## Hussar

Ryujin said:


> "You can't excel. That would make the other kids feel bad." Public school, in most places, is like a real world "Harrison Bergeron."



That is both incredibly insulting and infuriating all at the same time.


----------



## Ondath

Ryujin said:


> "You can't excel. That would make the other kids feel bad." Public school, in most places, is like a real world "Harrison Bergeron."



The fair sentiment in that comparison aside, I have very mixed feelings about that short story. We read it for our English class in high school and at that time it felt like a political allegory on equality that completely misunderstood the concept. But given the author's own political views, that doesn't seem right either. Its message just doesn't sit well with me, but maybe I'm missing a key element about it.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

"I don't want you to be able to play the way you want to because I liked a story 40 years ago" isn't a compelling argument.


----------



## Cadence

I can't find a good picture of two scarecrows fighting each other.


----------



## hawkeyefan

payn said:


> I want my pizza to be more like Thor and less like Hawkeye.




Madness.


----------



## Cadence

The next week at Thin Crust Joe's:

"Man, I talked to Joe, and he wasn't interested at all in putting Thick Crust, Gourmet Pasta, or Tostada's on the regular menu! He said having too big of a menu made a restaurant hard to run and hurt the quality.  But that they could try having daily specials and rotating them through."

"That sucks!  Let's go try out that new place Uncle K's Mexican and Italian Blowout.  I hear they have a huge menu!"

"Let's blow this joint."


At Uncle K's Mexican and Italian Blowout.

<20 minutes looking over 15 page menu>

"Eww.  My pizza crust got burned."

"Eww. My pasta sauce tastes like it has salsa in it."

"Eww. My salsa tastes like it has pizza sauce in it."

"How can we all be happy?  Should we rotate between different restaurants?"


Once more, at Thin Crust Joe's:

"I wonder if they'd consider pineapple and tuna...."


----------



## CleverNickName

*Scenes from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
Act I, Scene II

Tasha's: * Hello there, and welcome!  What would you like today?
*Customer:*  Is this a pizzeria?
*Tasha's:  *Yes indeed!  If it's pizza you want, you've come to the right place!
*Customer: * So, do you make thin crust pizza?
*Tasha's:  *Yes we do!  Also thick crust, sourdough, and gluten-free as well!
*Customer:  *Good, good.  How about deep dish, can you do that?
*Tasha's: * Of course.  We can also do hand-tossed, wood-fired, and flatbread.
*Customer:  *Wonderful, wonderful.  Let's talk style...how about Chicago-style?
*Tasha's: * Chicago style is our specialty!  We do Brooklyn style, Detroit style, and Sicilian too.
*Customer: * That's excellent, I'm really glad to hear it.  It's so hard to find good pizza!
*Tasha's: * That's why we're here!  So! What would you like today?
*Customer: * I would like three eggs, over easy, with two strips of bacon and hash browns, with black coffee.
*Tasha's:*  That's...a Grand Slam Breakfast.  From Denny's.
*Customer:  *Yes.  (leans in, whispers meaningfully)  _Is that a problem, Pizzeria of quote-unquote Everything?_
*Tasha's:*  This is a pizzeria.  We make and serve pizza, not breakfast platters.
*Customer:  *Ha!  So do you finally admit that you're bad at your job and should be replaced?
*Tasha's: * You walked past a Denny's to come _here_ and order your Grand Slam Breakfast?
*Customer: * And you can't do it!  Ha!  _In your face,_ Tasha!
*Tasha's:  *I really don't know what I expected, but this isn't it.


----------



## Hussar

I've eaten nothing but my own home made pizza for twenty years and my six friends all think it's the best pizza.  That makes me the best person to explain to you why the pizza you eat is strictly inferior and you should listen to me about how to best prepare pizza.


----------



## CleverNickName

If I ever decide to open my own pizzeria, I'm going to name it "The Game."  Just to push the metaphor even harder.

Or "Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything," because it's cool.


----------



## Ryujin

Ondath said:


> The fair sentiment in that comparison aside, I have very mixed feelings about that short story. We read it for our English class in high school and at that time it felt like a political allegory on equality that completely misunderstood the concept. But given the author's own political views, that doesn't seem right either. Its message just doesn't sit well with me, but maybe I'm missing a key element about it.



I think the basic premise is that taking anything to an extreme is probably a bad thing. While trying to create a utopia, they create a dystopia instead. If you haven't seen it, then give the movie that's loosely based on the short story, starring Sean Astin, a watch. It expands upon the themes rather well.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> If I ever decide to open my own pizzeria, I'm going to name it "The Game."  Just to push the metaphor even harder.
> 
> Or "Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything," because it's cool.



"Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Pizza"?


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> "Man, I want pizza. Let's go hang out at out at Thin Crust Joe's"
> 
> A bit later...
> 
> "Dammit, this place would be so much better if it had thick crust!"
> 
> "Why is their pasta so mediocre?"
> 
> "How hard is it to offer tostadas too!"
> 
> Next week...
> 
> "Thin Crust Joe's again?"
> 
> "Sounds like a plan."
> 
> "Like we'd go anywhere else!"




This reminds me of this dude that was kind of peripheral to my friend group in the late 90s and early 00s - who whenever a famous NY steakhouse came up would roll his eyes and say it was not nearly as good as everyone says it is.

Finally, one day someone asked him what kind of steak he had there. . .

Dude: I didn't have steak,  I had the fried chicken.

Let's just say that if he ever made the mistake of bringing up "the quality of the _steak _house" again around us he regretted it.


----------



## payn

Woke up this morning and wanted this for breakfast (stupid week days)


----------



## Ondath

Some people are so pointlessly grumpy that I've started mentally ignoring them when they pop up in a thread. I just assume they'll be needlessly combative and take the least charitable view of the opposing side. 

The sad thing is most of the time my assumptions are proven right.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ondath said:


> Some people are so pointlessly grumpy that I've started mentally ignoring them when they pop up in a thread. I just assume they'll be needlessly combative and take the least charitable view of the opposing side.
> 
> The sad thing is most of the time my assumptions are proven right.




Maybe this time if I talk to that person it will go differently!

_




_
Nope. You think I would learn. 

_I never learn ... _


----------



## el-remmen

I will DM you my most recent unpublished response in a thread if you want. . . I wrote up the whole thing, realized I have written nearly the exact same post responding to the same people in the past, and it was all pointless.  I'm going to get some pizza for lunch instead.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## CleverNickName

I understand that geometry is confusing for some folks.  So I would like to present:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I understand that geometry is confusing for some folks.  So I would like to present:




MY MMA OCTO-PIZZA CAN KICK YOUR FOUR-SIDED PIZZA'S BUTT!






ALSO? WHERE IS THE PIZZA BUTT? ASKING FOR A FRIEND.


----------



## Cadence

[To person from Mexico]:  "Don't try to explain alla marinara to me, I'm Italian and it's offensive when you do.  And wow, that thing you described is really not what is meant by pico de gallo at all!!"


----------



## payn

Are folks really rallying against D&D digital products because it makes it too difficult to play while camping?


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Are folks really rallying against D&D digital products because it makes it too difficult to play while camping?



So that's the flavor of the week, eh?

I remember when folks were outraged over the d12 not being used more often.  Digitally or otherwise.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Are folks really rallying against D&D digital products because it makes it too difficult to play while camping?



I went almost completely digital for 4e. Yeah, I don't have access to that stuff anymore, whereas I still have a Basic D&D box set and my original 1e books.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I remember when folks were outraged over the d12 not being used more often.  Digitally or otherwise.




Not a reply or really related, but seeing d12 there reminds me...

So, d16 feels like it fills a nice gap between d12 and d20 for escalating dice sizes.  Bad to start using it?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Not a reply or really related, but seeing d12 there reminds me...
> 
> So, d16 feels like it fills a nice gap between d12 and d20 for escalating dice sizes.  Bad to start using it?



One of the merits of a digital platform is that you can use any dice you want, for any roll you need.  

Even dice that don't exist.  You wanna roll a d37? Just type
/r 1d37​into the chat window of Roll20 and press Enter.  Boom, done.

You want all attack rolls to roll 4d5 instead of the base 1d20?  Even easier!  Just edit the macro to use "4d5" instead of "1d20" and you're finished.  Nothing to type or remember, no new buttons to hunt for.


----------



## el-remmen

I'd rather pull chits out of a bag than use digital dice.


----------



## J.Quondam

Rock, paper, scissors is the ultimate resolution mechanic.


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> I'd rather pull chits out of a bag than use digital dice.



Nothing wrong with that, either.  It's just hard to do on a VTT, that's all.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Nothing wrong with that, either.  It's just hard to do on a VTT, that's all.











						Pixels - The Electronic Dice
					

A set of smart light-up dice, completely customizable and ready to take your D&D or tabletop game to the next level.




					www.kickstarter.com


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> Rock, paper, scissors is the ultimate resolution mechanic.



Especially if you use the revised 3rd Edition rules.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> Especially if you use the revised 3rd Edition rules.
> View attachment 258955



Yes! And the game is absolutely bonkers when you include feets.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Especially if you use the revised 3rd Edition rules.
> View attachment 258955




Wait, how does GUN beat ROCK? 

Did GUN take a FEAT CHAIN?


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Especially if you use the revised 3rd Edition rules.
> View attachment 258955



I see no Lizard, nor Spock in this image.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> I see no Lizard, nor Spock in this image.



They weren't added until 3.5E.


----------



## trappedslider

J.Quondam said:


> Rock, paper, scissors is the ultimate resolution mechanic.



No, murder is.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I'd rather pull chits out of a bag than use digital dice.



Im actually looking forward to the Cowboy Bebop RPG later this year. It uses the Hexsys which is chits out of a bag.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> No, murder is.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> So that's the flavor of the week, eh?
> 
> I remember when folks were outraged over the d12 not being used more often.  Digitally or otherwise.



I designed a game system for my Millenium RPG (Roman Catholic troubleshooters at the turn of the first millennium, battling millennial cults) that used 3d12 for most resolutions. The number of dice that rolled under your target number indicated the quality of the result. Zero was absolute failure, while 3 was a perfect success. I may need to dig that out and see if I can polish it to something I can post to itch.io.


----------



## Mezuka

What happened with user Haplo781?


----------



## Cadence

Mezuka said:


> What happened with user Haplo781?



Red carded.








						It feels so much like the D&D Next playtest did
					

Nope, but if 'everything good' was shouted down, and its already crazy successful, am I to accept that everything shouted down was actually good, or perhaps there are reasons it wasnt included?  Or the game could have been even more popular if those changes weren't shouted down.   We don't know...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## Ondath

Ryujin said:


> I went almost completely digital for 4e. Yeah, I don't have access to that stuff anymore, whereas I still have a Basic D&D box set and my original 1e books.



That's the general worry I have with live services in general. If you buy something (it doesn't even have to be physical, but just having the files that you can access without some online authentication), it's yours forever. With live services, even though you pay the full price for everything, the whole thing could disappear if the company shuts down the service. Even in most online game stores like Epic Games Store, I believe the courts ruled that you don't technically own the game separate from the services - which means if Epic Games goes down, my massive library with hundreds of dollars of games in it would go bye-bye (Steam might be an exception to this, though not of their own volition - I found a 2019 French court decision that declared that the users own the full rights to their Steam games including resale).

Since we already saw 4E's digital tools disappear into the void with the arrival of 5E, I'm worried a similar thing will inevitably happen for D&D Beyond and D&D Digital. But the entire world's going the way of live services so not much to do there...


----------



## payn

Ondath said:


> That's the general worry I have with live services in general. If you buy something (it doesn't even have to be physical, but just having the files that you can access without some online authentication), it's yours forever. With live services, even though you pay the full price for everything, the whole thing could disappear if the company shuts down the service. Even in most online game stores like Epic Games Store, I believe the courts ruled that you don't technically own the game separate from the services - which means if Epic Games goes down, my massive library with hundreds of dollars of games in it would go bye-bye (Steam might be an exception to this, though not of their own volition - I found a 2019 French court decision that declared that the users own the full rights to their Steam games including resale).



Folks have been fearing this for decades now. Turns out a service stream is not only pretty stable, but keep a wide selection of old and new material. Also, there is always a DRM-free option for these services for folks who are really worried about servers getting the plug pulled.

Also, I would be very shocked if D&D goes digital only in the next 25 years +. I mean, take a look around, so many posters here line up to chest thump over never digital. Will the design make using a physical copy become incredibly difficult? I don't think so, seeing how 5E actually rolled back the complexity quite a bit from 3E/4E. That ease of use is a big part of the success recipe for 5E.


Ondath said:


> Since we already saw 4E's digital tools disappear into the void with the arrival of 5E, I'm worried a similar thing will inevitably happen for D&D Beyond and D&D Digital. But the entire world's going the way of live services so not much to do there...



I think its an entirely different world now. If WotC had been premiering this at 5E launch, I'd laugh, but now I think they actually making a solid stab at it.


----------



## Ondath

payn said:


> Folks have been fearing this for decades now. Turns out a service stream is not only pretty stable, but keep a wide selection of old and new material. Also, there is always a DRM-free option for these services for folks who are really worried about servers getting the plug pulled.



I just think two decades is too short compared to the longevity some of these works would normally have if the same property rights as physical objects were attached to them - I have the luck of having books from 1920s in my library, and people make collections of films that are almost a century old as well. Can we be sure that D&D Beyond will be around for 10, 20 or 30 years? If it won't, doesn't that mean that your content library on D&D Beyond will mean nothing when that service closes?


----------



## payn

Ondath said:


> I just think two decades is too short compared to the longevity some of these works would normally have if the same property rights as physical objects were attached to them - I have the luck of having books from 1920s in my library, and people make collections of films that are almost a century old as well. Can we be sure that D&D Beyond will be around for 10, 20 or 30 years? If it won't, doesn't that mean that your content library on D&D Beyond will mean nothing when that service closes?



I guess it would. What evidence do we have, however, that this is a regular occurrence? Does it seem like Epic and Steam are floundering and ready to close shop? Will HBO/Netflix/Prime just go out of business and stop streaming? I used to worry about my physical Nintendo library, but, thanks to digital I can play any of those old games any time I want. Digital is just as evergreen, if not more so, than physical. 

I mean, thats just assuming you will still be playing 5E in 10,20,30 years. You could still be playing 1E,2E,3E,4E, etc... Unless you fear they will just simply stop publishing physical rulebooks, which, I have seen nothing to suggest they will.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I guess it would. What evidence do we have, however, that this is a regular occurrence? Does it seem like Epic and Steam are floundering and ready to close shop? Will HBO/Netflix/Prime just go out of business and stop streaming? I used to worry about my physical Nintendo library, but, thanks to digital I can play any of those old games any time I want. *Digital is just as evergreen, if not more so, than physical.*
> 
> I mean, thats just assuming you will still be playing 5E in 10,20,30 years. You could still be playing 1E,2E,3E,4E, etc... Unless you fear they will just simply stop publishing physical rulebooks, which, I have seen nothing to suggest they will.




Kind of?

I love digital! Don't get me wrong. Right now ... you can access more STUFF than ever before.

But we also don't have a great track record with digital media. There are a lot of issues- with rights holders being able to control what we access. With different storefront or companies disappearing or going out of business (so all the "stuff" you purchased is no longer accessible ... unless you buy it again). With an unproven track record of durability ... I mean, say what you will about books and the inability for everyone to get hold of what they want, but we also know that they have lasted a while.

I understand the concerns.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> I guess it would. What evidence do we have, however, that this is a regular occurrence? Does it seem like Epic and Steam are floundering and ready to close shop? Will HBO/Netflix/Prime just go out of business and stop streaming? I used to worry about my physical Nintendo library, but, thanks to digital I can play any of those old games any time I want. Digital is just as evergreen, if not more so, than physical.
> 
> I mean, thats just assuming you will still be playing 5E in 10,20,30 years. You could still be playing 1E,2E,3E,4E, etc... Unless you fear they will just simply stop publishing physical rulebooks, which, I have seen nothing to suggest they will.



I don't know that you need to have such evidence, when we're talking about a company that has already done it. I don't know about you, but I follow the Scotty Edict: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> I don't know that you need to have such evidence, when we're talking about a company that has already done it. I don't know about you, but I follow the Scotty Edict: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> Woke up this morning and wanted this for breakfast (stupid week days)
> View attachment 258926




 I'll split it with you - I'll eat the three things I can identify, and you can have the rest...





Snarf Zagyg said:


> ALSO? WHERE IS THE PIZZA BUTT? ASKING FOR A FRIEND.




 A lot of people around here used to refer to the uneaten piece of crust left over after consuming all the sauce-covered areas as "pizza bones"...
 Later, that term came to be used to refer to the breadsticks covered in sauce, cheese and occasionally toppings that a friend of mine used to make.




Ondath said:


> That's the general worry I have with live services in general. If you buy something (it doesn't even have to be physical, but just having the files that you can access without some online authentication), it's yours forever. With live services, even though you pay the full price for everything, the whole thing could disappear if the company shuts down the service. Even in most online game stores like Epic Games Store, I believe the courts ruled that you don't technically own the game separate from the services - which means if Epic Games goes down, my massive library with hundreds of dollars of games in it would go bye-bye (Steam might be an exception to this, though not of their own volition - I found a 2019 French court decision that declared that the users own the full rights to their Steam games including resale).
> 
> Since we already saw 4E's digital tools disappear into the void with the arrival of 5E, I'm worried a similar thing will inevitably happen for D&D Beyond and D&D Digital. But the entire world's going the way of live services so not much to do there...




 That's my general stance on most digital media as well... Anytime I buy a game like Skyrim on Steam or a digital copy of a movie or something similar, I always try to get a physical copy of it as well.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> I don't know that you need to have such evidence, when we're talking about a company that has already done it. I don't know about you, but I follow the Scotty Edict: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."



Its true, like one of the few example (of course its D&D lol).


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Kind of?
> 
> I love digital! Don't get me wrong. Right now ... you can access more STUFF than ever before.
> 
> But we also don't have a great track record with digital media. There are a lot of issues- with rights holders being able to control what we access. With different storefront or companies disappearing or going out of business (so all the "stuff" you purchased is no longer accessible ... unless you buy it again). With an unproven track record of durability ... I mean, say what you will about books and the inability for everyone to get hold of what they want, but we also know that they have lasted a while.
> 
> I understand the concerns.



I really cant think of a time I lost my stuff and couldn't get it back. Not with music, movies, games, books, etc.. The 4E example is a good one, but I wasn't part of it, so I forget about it.


----------



## Ondath

payn said:


> I guess it would. What evidence do we have, however, that this is a regular occurrence? Does it seem like Epic and Steam are floundering and ready to close shop? Will HBO/Netflix/Prime just go out of business and stop streaming?



Well, right now HBO Max just removed tons of cartoons from its library because WarnerDiscovery thinks streaming will net them a loss, and they're not sharing that content with anyone else (including physical releases) to avoid paying the people who worked in those shows any money: I believe Close Enough is an example that you can no longer get in any way in the US (it's currently on Netflix in my country luckily, but if I were in the US I'd be *very* pissed because I really like that show). I became aware of this when Matt Mercer RT'd some show creators expressing their frustration at this weird decision. IIRC, they removed around 33 shows, and like I said, no legal way to watch them now.

Similarly, the Marvel TV series Netflix produced itself can no longer be watched there, even though they were literally produced by them. You have to buy Disney+ for them now.

Whereas if these shows were available as physical releases (or if we had rights to watch them outside the fleeting offerings of the streaming service), no amount of company mergers and weird decisions by CEOs would take those shows away from your collection.


----------



## Cadence

I wish there was some license or something that would let folks write and publish their own version of D&D if they know what the rules should be.  That would be great.


----------



## payn

Ondath said:


> Well, right now HBO Max just removed tons of cartoons from its library because WarnerDiscovery thinks streaming will net them a loss, and they're not sharing that content with anyone else (including physical releases) to avoid paying the people who worked in those shows any money: I believe Close Enough is an example that you can no longer get in any way in the US (it's currently on Netflix in my country luckily, but if I were in the US I'd be *very* pissed because I really like that show). Similarly, the Marvel TV series Netflix produced itself can no longer be watched there, even though they were literally produced by them. You have to buy Disney+ for them now.
> 
> Whereas if these shows were available as physical releases (or if we had rights to watch them outside the fleeting offerings of the streaming service), no amount of company mergers and weird decisions by CEOs would take those shows away from your collection.



I thought Netflix just paid for the rights, but ABC actually produced the Marvel TV series? I mean, thats just coming home to roost. Paramount screwed the pooch on Yellowstone, but the second they can get it back they will. It sucks have to juggle subs, but honestly, this stuff is pretty affordable to dance around for what you like. 

I guess im just not worried. The cartoons and 4E digital tools never landed on my radar. I am happy to be rid of all the junk clogging up my home. I say this as someone who has hundreds of vinyl records and a digital music service. Whats important to you, you get physical. Though, digital offerings are plentiful and cheap.


----------



## Cadence

Another thread discussing idyllic.  I guess different folks mean different things by it, because the picture that just came across my Twitter feed is way to crowded for that descriptor!


----------



## Cadence

Ondath said:


> Well, right now HBO Max just removed tons of cartoons from its library because WarnerDiscovery thinks streaming will net them a loss, and they're not sharing that content with anyone else (including physical releases) to avoid paying the people who worked in those shows any money: I believe Close Enough is an example that you can no longer get in any way in the US (it's currently on Netflix in my country luckily, but if I were in the US I'd be *very* pissed because I really like that show). I became aware of this when Matt Mercer RT'd some show creators expressing their frustration at this weird decision. IIRC, they removed around 33 shows, and like I said, no legal way to watch them now.
> 
> Similarly, the Marvel TV series Netflix produced itself can no longer be watched there, even though they were literally produced by them. You have to buy Disney+ for them now.
> 
> Whereas if these shows were available as physical releases (or if we had rights to watch them outside the fleeting offerings of the streaming service), no amount of company mergers and weird decisions by CEOs would take those shows away from your collection.




Do HBOMax and the like promise certain particular content, or just a general promise that they'll have cool stuff?


----------



## Ondath

payn said:


> I thought Netflix just paid for the rights, but ABC actually produced the Marvel TV series? I mean, thats just coming home to roost. Paramount screwed the pooch on Yellowstone, but the second they can get it back they will. It sucks have to juggle subs, but honestly, this stuff is pretty affordable to dance around for what you like.
> 
> I guess im just not worried. The cartoons and 4E digital tools never landed on my radar. I am happy to be rid of all the junk clogging up my home. I say this as someone who has hundreds of vinyl records and a digital music service. Whats important to you, you get physical. Though, digital offerings are plentiful and cheap.



I mean, I'm not saying that digital services ruin everything either. I'm subscribed to multiple of them, and the scale of content that they provide is only something you can get with such a service. So I agree that they're plentiful and cheap.

But I also appreciate keeping the important things in a personal archive and I feel like people who grew up in the post-Netflix world don't really have that reflex. I think both personal ownership and digital services are really wonderful if they coexist, but live services seem to be supplanting personal ownership and that worries me. Right now when there's money to be made, it works, but in a few decades, we might have a digital wasteland where nothing is really available because all the major digital services were shut down and the hundreds of dollars worth of content people "had" in them are gone forever, at least for their personal access.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> I thought Netflix just paid for the rights, but ABC actually produced the Marvel TV series? I mean, thats just coming home to roost. Paramount screwed the pooch on Yellowstone, but the second they can get it back they will. It sucks have to juggle subs, but honestly, this stuff is pretty affordable to dance around for what you like.



Netflix paying for those rights was a bit more than licensing an already-made show or movie for streaming. It was more like bring a substantial amount of the budget for the production of the show. They just had size that budget bid based on how well they thought they could make a return on that investment for the duration of the license.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Netflix paying for those rights was a bit more than licensing an already-made show or movie for streaming. It was more like bring a substantial amount of the budget for the production of the show. They just had size that budget bid based on how well they thought they could make a return on that investment for the duration of the license.



It was a good bet, even with the risk. I stayed around for those shows and a few others. Netflix now though is drying up.


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> Another thread discussing idyllic.  I guess different folks mean different things by it, because the picture that just came across my Twitter feed is way to crowded for that descriptor!
> 
> View attachment 258985



Yeah, to me that looks like something I'd see in a _Jaws_ movie, not an offer of idyll.


----------



## payn

Ondath said:


> I mean, I'm not saying that digital services ruin everything either. I'm subscribed to multiple of them, and the scale of content that they provide is only something you can get with such a service. So I agree that they're plentiful and cheap.
> 
> But I also appreciate keeping the important things in a personal archive and I feel like people who grew up in the post-Netflix world don't really have that reflex. I think both personal ownership and digital services are really wonderful if they coexist, but live services seem to be supplanting personal ownership and that worries me. Right now when there's money to be made, it works, but in a few decades, we might have a digital wasteland where nothing is really available because all the major digital services were shut down and the hundreds of dollars worth of content people "had" in them are gone forever, at least for their personal access.



I just dont see it. That content is money to print. They are still making money on NES titles, decades old albums, hundreds of year old books, etc... I just dont see companies shutting off that cash spigot. Now, driving it digital only so you have to have the service? Yeap, thats likely to happen. Though, ill be dead then.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> It was a good bet, even with the risk. I stayed around for those shows and a few others. Netflix now though is drying up.



Oh, I agree it was a good bet. I'm not sure I'd describe Netflix as "drying up" though. There's still good stuff on it - it's just that everybody wants to get in the game now and that means there's a lot more competition for hosting the content. And that means that now I have to decide what services to buy to get my fix for Star Trek (Paramount+), the MCU/Star Wars/Pixar (Disney+), Stranger Things (Netflix), Reservation Dogs (Hulu), House of Dragons (HBOMax), and Tolkien stuff (AmazonPrime), etc when initially it was just Netflix. ! Is it really that many?!?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

It kind of drives me crazy when people agree with a villain in a movie that is very obviously wrong and take their quotes out of context because they like how they sound. 

The reason they're saying those things is because they're the villain. The point of having them say those things is to show how wrong they are. I'm sure this happens a ton with a lot of different villains, but there are quite a few where it's pretty egregious.


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> It kind of drives me crazy when people agree with a villain in a movie that is very obviously wrong and take their quotes out of context because they like how they sound.
> 
> The reason they're saying those things is because they're the villain. The point of having them say those things is to show how wrong they are. I'm sure this happens a ton with a lot of different villains, but there are quite a few where it's pretty egregious.



Is it life in general you think is white hat black hat, or just your expectation of literature/film?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

payn said:


> Is it life in general you think is white hat black hat, or just your expectation of literature/film?



I'm sorry, I don't take your meaning? Are you saying that sometimes the villain has a point? Because with that I agree. Thanos had a point that the universe will eventually run out of the resources necessary to sustain life. But his actions make him the villain, because he was crazy and thought killing half of all life in the universe one time would somehow solve that problem. 

Villains that are supposed to be "morally complex" (so a lot of more modern ones) typically can identify a big problem with the world or heroes or whatever but are really bad at fixing the problem. The Riddler in The Batman correctly identified that Gotham's institutions were corrupt and needed fixing, but for some reason thought that flooding the city would fix that. Zemo is correct that having a ton of superpowered people running around would be bad for the world, but he decided that killing them was the only solution. 

A lot of the time, the villain is the villain because they're correct about the problem but wrong about the solution. That's why taking their phrases out of context and using them to support an internet argument bothers me. They don't get that the villain is wrong. That's why they're the villain. If they weren't wrong, they wouldn't be called the villain.


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I'm sorry, I don't take your meaning? Are you saying that sometimes the villain has a point? Because with that I agree. Thanos had a point that the universe will eventually run out of the resources necessary to sustain life. But his actions make him the villain, because he was crazy and thought killing half of all life in the universe one time would somehow solve that problem.
> 
> Villains that are supposed to be "morally complex" (so a lot of more modern ones) typically can identify a big problem with the world or heroes or whatever but are really bad at fixing the problem. The Riddler in The Batman correctly identified that Gotham's institutions were corrupt and needed fixing, but for some reason thought that flooding the city would fix that. Zemo is correct that having a ton of superpowered people running around would be bad for the world, but he decided that killing them was the only solution.
> 
> A lot of the time, the villain is the villain because they're correct about the problem but wrong about the solution. That's why taking their phrases out of context and using them to support an internet argument bothers me. They don't get that the villain is wrong. That's why they're the villain. If they weren't wrong, they wouldn't be called the villain.



The line between hero and villain is measured only in success.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

payn said:


> The line between hero and villain is measured only in success.



Then Thanos is the hero of Infinity War?


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> The line between hero and villain is measured only in success.



And it's drawn by the status quo.


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Then Thanos is the hero of Infinity War?



Hero is just a person who gets people killed.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

payn said:


> Hero is just a person who gets people killed.



No. Not in media, not in real life. If someone saves a child that's falling out a window, they're a hero. A hero doesn't have to kill anyone. Batman's a hero, and he doesn't kill people.


----------



## payn

AcererakTriple6 said:


> No. Not in media, not in real life. If someone saves a child that's falling out a window, they're a hero. A hero doesn't have to kill anyone. Batman's a hero, and he doesn't kill people.



That really depends on the Batman we are talking about.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> That really depends on the Batman we are talking about.



The amount of (apparently) non-green energy he uses with flames belching out of the back of everything from those jet engines...   If nothing else his contribution to global warming is killing people.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AcererakTriple6 said:


> A lot of the time, the villain is the villain because they're correct about the problem but wrong about the solution. That's why taking their phrases out of context and using them to support an internet argument bothers me. They don't get that the villain is wrong. That's why they're the villain. If they weren't wrong, they wouldn't be called the villain.




That’s the problem, right there! Trying to find a solution. You should be like me. I mean when I comment on enworld, I’m like a dog chasing cars. I wouldn’t know what to do if I caught one, you know  

i just write …. things.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Hero is just a person who gets people killed.



_"You can look it up later."_









						'Do you know what the definition of a hero is? Someone who gets other people killed. You...' - Serenity quote
					

Zoë: Do you know what the definition of a hero is? Someone who gets other people killed. You can look it up later.




					clip.cafe


----------



## dragoner

DnD1 is extremely successful at generating threads.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

"Hi Tasha, we're regulars at Thin Crust Joe's, but he recommended we come talk to you - he seemed grumpy.  We had a discussion and came to a group decision that we'd like you to expand your menu and add tostadas and pasta.  Thanks for being a team player, unlike Joe,  and doing this for us."


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Kind of?
> 
> I love digital! Don't get me wrong. Right now ... you can access more STUFF than ever before.
> 
> But we also don't have a great track record with digital media. There are a lot of issues- with rights holders being able to control what we access. With different storefront or companies disappearing or going out of business (so all the "stuff" you purchased is no longer accessible ... unless you buy it again). With an unproven track record of durability ... I mean, say what you will about books and the inability for everyone to get hold of what they want, but we also know that they have lasted a while.
> 
> I understand the concerns.




The only really solid things are books.  I have vinyl records and cds, but using these is dependent on having access to specific devices.  I'm not even sure I have a way to listen to CDs or cassettes in my house right now.  Similarly, I had a hard drive crash recently, and needed to transfer some files from some old external hard drives.  Even though these were all purchased within the past 10 years, a) one had failed despite only sitting in a closet and b) all of them had outdated ports (firewire, thunderbolt, etc).  Same with videogames.


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> The only really solid things are books.  I have vinyl records and cds, but using these is dependent on having access to specific devices.  I'm not even sure I have a way to listen to CDs or cassettes in my house right now.  Similarly, I had a hard drive crash recently, and needed to transfer some files from some old external hard drives.  Even though these were all purchased within the past 10 years, a) one had failed despite only sitting in a closet and b) all of them had outdated ports (firewire, thunderbolt, etc).  Same with videogames.



As much as I love and treasure my vinyl, it does degrade over time.


----------



## Cadence

One of my favorite Nero Wolfe stories is about a rich woman who read a book she thought everyone should read.  So she bought 10,000 copies and sent them out to every elected official and influential person she could think of.

If I were stupidly rich, after doing all kinds of things for the good of humanity, and probably buying some property in the north woods, and maybe a small business to run for fun, and maybe...,  Anyway,  I think I'd pay Morrus to send a free .pdf copy of Level Up A5E to everyone who registered on ENWorld and made a post to the forums.  I don't know if everyone needs to read it or would like it, but it certainly seems relevant to an awful lot of things people post about wanting to write rules for.


----------



## Hussar

The level of nit picking points vs just reflecting on the actual point being made drives me mental from time to time.  GACK!


----------



## payn

Mother, may I have at least one thread that doesn't turn into 4E is the greatest game of all time discussion?


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Mother, may I have at least one thread that doesn't turn into 4E is the greatest game of all time discussion?


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Mother, may I have at least one thread that doesn't turn into 4E is the greatest game of all time discussion?



Mother, may I have an edition war, please?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Mother, may I have at least one thread that doesn't turn into 4E is the greatest game of all time discussion?




Xeno: I love eating pineapple pizza!

Achilles: That's not pineapple pizza. That's a Mouthful of Hot Garbage!

Xeno: What? Um, no. It's a yummy slice of pineapple pizza!

Achilles: Nope. It's a Mouthful of Hot Garbage. You know, MHG!

Xeno: What ... are ... you ... talking ... about?

Achilles: See, pizzas with pineapple topping? We call them a "Mouthful of Hot Garbage." You know, MHG. Just so we can talk about it.

Xeno: Dude. Not cool. I like eating pineapple pizza!

Achilles: Hey, c'mon. It's just a term.

Xeno: Well, how about I call your pepperoni pizza slice ... "The Vomit on A Triangle?"

Achilles: Well, you won't. Now, let's talk more about how much everyone hates a Mouthful of Hot Garbage.

Xeno: I like pineapple pizza! And stop calling it that!

Achilles: Hey now! I don't think getting all angry about terminology is going to help us understand why everyone hates Mouthfuls of Hot Garbage!


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Mother, may I have an edition war, please?



That is nothing you ever have to ask for, sweetie.


----------



## Cadence

Sometimes I forget, so it's good that being told "You don't get the good stuff." is evergreen


----------



## CleverNickName

Do you ever read through some of these threads and wonder:  has this person ever played D&D with their _friends_? or at least with people they _like_?


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Do you ever read through some of these threads and wonder:  has this person ever played D&D with their _friends_? or at least with people they _like_?




"D&D rules are best judged by the absolute worst examples of people who play with them" seems to be an unspoken assumption of people I can't help but think would be the absolute worst examples of people who play D&D. ..   uh, i mean pizza.


----------



## CleverNickName

*Scenes from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
Act II, Scene III

Tasha's: * Welcome to Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything!  What would you like today?
*Customer: * Hello, I'd like to order a pizza for my friends, please.
*Tasha's:*  That's very generous of you!  Let's get that order set up.  What kind of crust?
*Customer: * I'd like you to use a stack of wet napkins instead of a crust.  Can you do that?
*Tasha's:  *Um...yes?  I mean we _could,_ but wouldn't your friends enjoy a hand-tossed crust?
*Customer: * No thanks, let's stick to the wet napkins.  And let's make this an extra-large.
*Tasha's: * Sure.  I guess it'll be high in fiber!  What sauce?
*Customer: * Regular red sauce, and extra cheese.  Only the best for my friends!
*Tasha's: * Any other toppings?
*Customer: * I'd like pepperoni, mushroom, and six pounds of potting soil.
*Tasha's:  *Pepperoni, mush--wait, did you say 'potting soil'?
*Customer: * Yes please.  Six pounds.  Make sure it's the finest organic soil too, my friends deserve it!
*Tasha's: * This doesn't sound like a very good pizza.  Are you absolutely sure...
*Customer:* The internet says pizza is low in fiber, phosphorus, and nitrogen.  I'm _fixing it_.
*Tasha's: *Nobody has ever asked for a high-phosphorous pizza.
*Customer: * You're welcome.  Now for the weird part...
*Tasha's:*  Oh _now _it's going to get weird?
*Customer: * I need you to make it so that my friends _have _to eat it.
*Tasha's: * Um.  Sorry, I'm not sure I follow.  Could you explain that last part?
*Customer: * Make my friends eat every last bite.  No picking stuff off, no eating something else.
*Tasha's: * You want to force your friends to eat wet napkins and potting soil?
*Customer: * Maybe some kind of harness and feeding-tube situation? My friends love pizza with pepperoni and mushrooms.
*Tasha's:  *But the dirt...the napkins...
*Customer: * Because, God as my witness, my friends _will eat this pizza._  And they _will _like it.
*Tasha's:*  Are you sure these people are your friends?


----------



## Mezuka

I don't think WoTC wants to touch Matzica, Mystara and Kara-Tur with a 100' pole. That is why there is a disclaimer. To let the fans have what they want without having to touch it.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mezuka said:


> I don't think WoTC wants to touch Matzica, Mystara and Kara-Tor with a 100' pole. That is why there is a disclaimer. To let the fans have what they want without having to touch it.



I don't know that I would lump in Mystara with Maztica and Kara-Tor, the problematic parts of that setting aren't like, inherent to the premise of the thing. Plus of the three it's easily the most popular. I'd say still unlikely but not impossible.


----------



## dragoner

Certainly a lot of threads are like the two people passing each other in cars, and one would say plays D&D, and the other would be talks about it online. It's a trap I fell into at one point, I swore off it irl, not need to go to a-holes anonymous.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Do you ever read through some of these threads and wonder:  has this person ever played D&D with their _friends_? or at least with people they _like_?



I'd be willing to bet they don't like each other--and absolutely aren't friends--by the time they're done playing.


----------



## el-remmen

Mezuka said:


> I don't think WoTC wants to touch Matzica, Mystara and Kara-Tor with a 100' pole. That is why there is a disclaimer. To let the fans have what they want without having to touch it.




Funny, until the Ardling announcement, I was half-convinced the classic setting they announced was coming back would be Mystara because various kinds of anthropomorphic animal people are kind of its thing.


----------



## trappedslider

A rule on another gaming company's website doesn't allow for the bashing of other games or editions maybe enworld needs that?


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> A rule on another gaming company's website doesn't allow for the bashing of other games or editions maybe enworld needs that?



From what I can tell--and moderators, please correct me if I'm wrong--the forum rules on ENWorld aren't written to prevent the "bashing of other games or editions."  The forum rules are more concerned about preventing the bashing of other _people_.

I dump on 3E and 4E all the time, but never in the spirit of malice or contempt.  I have much respect for the gamers and publishers who are still  out there rocking it old-school.

That said: some of us really need to let the older editions _be older editions_.   BECM/Rules Cyclopedia is my absolute favorite version of the game, but you won't see me barking endlessly about how "Basic did it better" and petitioning OneD&D to be some weird retro-clone of it.  My *5E: Survivor* threads are odious enough!  The past is in the past for a reason, and while I might stumble now and again, I really am trying to follow Elsa's fine example and just...


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> From what I can tell--and moderators, please correct me if I'm wrong--the forum rules on ENWorld aren't written to prevent the "bashing of other games or editions."  The forum rules are more concerned about preventing the bashing of other _people_.



here's the full rule, It's from their general RPG section

"Some recent threads about games people do or don't like have turned nasty. Rude. Uncouth, even.

That has to stop.

If you dislike a game, it's fine to say so. It's equally fine to give reasons why you dislike it. It is not fine, under ANY circumstances, to belittle those who do like the game, even by implication ("That's a great game for players who chased parked cars as children"). That is flaming, and it is inappropriate.

No one's saying you have to like every game that's published. I certainly don't. But you DO have to respect that other people may like the games you don't, for perfectly valid reasons starting with "we have fun playing it," and if you feel compelled to criticize a game, make sure you criticize the _game_, not the _players_.

If you think this message is directed at you, it probably is. There's been way too much of this going around of late. Chill out, remember that in the end we're all gamers, and show people a little more respect even when they're playing a game you wouldn't touch with a hazmat suit and a bomb-sniffing waldo."


----------



## Mezuka

el-remmen said:


> Funny, until the Ardling announcement, I was half-convinced the classic setting they announced was coming back would be Mystara because various kinds of anthropomorphic animal people are kind of its thing.



They are recreating the golden age of 2e. Dark Sun should be next. 

Mystara would be a massive undertaking with its 14 Gazetteers of lore. Bruce Heard offered to do it for them at the beginning of 5e. They said no. That is why he created the Calidar setting.


----------



## el-remmen

Mezuka said:


> Mystara would be a massive undertaking with its 14 Gazetteers of lore. Bruce Heard offered to do it for them at the beginning of 5e. They said no. That is why he created the Calidar setting.



"Coming back" is not synonymous with "recreate everything ever published about the setting." I was thinking more like an adventure book with some character creation options. But anyway, like I said, I never was really convinced of that and now I am certain it will not happen - at least not any time soon.


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> here's the full rule, It's from their general RPG section
> 
> "Some recent threads about games people do or don't like have turned nasty. Rude. Uncouth, even.
> 
> That has to stop.
> 
> If you dislike a game, it's fine to say so. It's equally fine to give reasons why you dislike it. It is not fine, under ANY circumstances, to belittle those who do like the game, even by implication ("That's a great game for players who chased parked cars as children"). That is flaming, and it is inappropriate.
> 
> No one's saying you have to like every game that's published. I certainly don't. But you DO have to respect that other people may like the games you don't, for perfectly valid reasons starting with "we have fun playing it," and if you feel compelled to criticize a game, make sure you criticize the _game_, not the _players_.
> 
> If you think this message is directed at you, it probably is. There's been way too much of this going around of late. Chill out, remember that in the end we're all gamers, and show people a little more respect even when they're playing a game you wouldn't toch with a hazmat suit and a bomb-sniffing waldo."




"You can't ban me for that, because the thing I was bashing doesn't even qualify as a game.  Let me explain why it lacks several of the essential qualities to be called one.  <Insert 8 paragraphs with references>"


----------



## Mad_Jack

I'm tempted to try starting an edition war between the Daily newspaper and the Sunday edition... It'd be fun - I can guarantee that after about a page and a half, it'd spiral off into heated arguments and namecalling between the folks who don't even know what a newspaper is and the grognards who've actually read one and at least a dozen other tangents.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> "You can't ban me for that, because the thing I was bashing doesn't even qualify as a game.  Let me explain why it lacks several of the essential qualities to be called one.  <Insert 8 paragraphs with references>"



Not to split hairs, but in this example?  It sounds like the speaker is in danger of getting banned for challenging moderation.  

I don't think it's a problem to discuss whether or not something should be categorized as a game.  (I'm not a moderator, so take this with a grain of salt.)  I think people get in trouble when they let their emotions cloud their writing, and start insulting other people for disagreeing with them.  I'm talking about crossing the line between "This game is bad and here's why" and "People who like this game are inferior to me."


----------



## Mezuka

el-remmen said:


> "Coming back" is not synonymous with "recreate everything ever published about the setting." I was thinking more like an adventure book with some character creation options. But anyway, like I said, I never was really convinced of that and now I am certain it will not happen - at least not any time soon.



I see. It's a bit late to do an homage Mystara adventures book. BECMI uses race-as-class, how would you reconcile that with 5e?

[edit] the closest they ever got to Basic was with the Phandelver sandbox aventure in the starter set. It's not B2 but they took lot of hints from it imho.


----------



## CleverNickName

Mezuka said:


> I see. It's a bit late to do an homage Mystara adventures book. BECMI uses race-as-class, how would you reconcile that with 5e?



This is currently a topic of discussion in another thread.  People are asking that very question right now, and have been asking about it for a  couple of years at least.

I'm also curious how it would look in 5E or 5.5E, because like you say, it's a pretty big part of BECMI.


----------



## el-remmen

Mezuka said:


> BECMI uses race-as-class, how would you reconcile that with 5e?




How did the 2E version of Mystara do it?


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> here's the full rule, It's from their general RPG section
> 
> "Some recent threads about games people do or don't like have turned nasty. Rude. Uncouth, even.
> 
> That has to stop.
> 
> If you dislike a game, it's fine to say so. It's equally fine to give reasons why you dislike it. It is not fine, under ANY circumstances, to belittle those who do like the game, even by implication ("That's a great game for players who chased parked cars as children"). That is flaming, and it is inappropriate.
> 
> No one's saying you have to like every game that's published. I certainly don't. But you DO have to respect that other people may like the games you don't, for perfectly valid reasons starting with "we have fun playing it," and if you feel compelled to criticize a game, make sure you criticize the _game_, not the _players_.
> 
> If you think this message is directed at you, it probably is. There's been way too much of this going around of late. Chill out, remember that in the end we're all gamers, and show people a little more respect even when they're playing a game you wouldn't touch with a hazmat suit and a bomb-sniffing waldo."


----------



## trappedslider

Cadence said:


> "You can't ban me for that, because the thing I was bashing doesn't even qualify as a game.  Let me explain why it lacks several of the essential qualities to be called one.  <Insert 8 paragraphs with references>"


----------



## Malmuria

Yikes, it looks like the Great Old Ones have been summoned.  Prepare to make some sanity checks, everyone!


----------



## CleverNickName

Malmuria said:


> Yikes, it looks like the Great Old Ones have been summoned.  Prepare to make some sanity checks, everyone!



Expectation:






Reality:


----------



## el-remmen




----------



## trappedslider

so my custom playmat came in 



Spoiler


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Godwin's Law much?


----------



## prabe




----------



## Galandris

trappedslider said:


> A rule on another gaming company's website doesn't allow for the bashing of other games or editions maybe enworld needs that?




Sure. I heard great things about FATAL.


----------



## The Glen

el-remmen said:


> How did the 2E version of Mystara do it?



Completely got rid of it.  Standard 2nd edition, created unimaginable continuity problems.


----------



## trappedslider

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Godwin's Law much?



quickest way to either get banned from the thread or get it locked.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

trappedslider said:


> quickest way to either get banned from the thread or get it locked.



Yeah. First time I've had that happen to me on this site. It was really strange to be compared to Hitler because I don't like a book.


----------



## Hussar

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Yeah. First time I've had that happen to me on this site. It was really strange to be compared to Hitler because I don't like a book.



Well, I suppose it would depend on what book...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Malmuria said:


> Yikes, it looks like the Great Old Ones have been summoned.  Prepare to make some sanity checks, everyone!




 Wait... Did I forget to put my clothes on again? Sorry about that...


----------



## Cadence

"Almost surely! ... Oh wait, you meant like stat and ability wise, not morally."


----------



## CleverNickName

My Players:  But the rules say you can't do that!
Me, the DM:  (clicks a red ball point pen)  Show me the rule.
My Players:  It's right here, on page--hey!  What are you doing?!
Me:  (circles the passage, writes "see also: DMG pg. 5" in the margin)


----------



## el-remmen

When I feel myself getting irritated with someone who is claiming to agree with me, it just might be time to take a break from ENWORLD.

 Hmmm, this feels like a riff on a Jeff Foxworthy bit. . .


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> When I feel myself getting irritated with someone who is claiming to agree with me, it just might be time to take a break from ENWORLD.




Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> When I feel myself getting irritated with someone who is claiming to agree with me, it just might be time to take a break from ENWORLD.
> 
> Hmmm, this feels like a riff on a Jeff Foxworthy bit. . .




Tangentially, an old bit of his was on the Sirius Comedy Channel this AM and it had not aged particularly well.

(I just hadn't thought of him in quite a while, and now he comes up twice in one day....)


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.




This is in line with my philosophy of "grudge tipping," in which I generously tip servers who have been awful and tell them "I hope your day gets better!"


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> ....




_Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit_.
-Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter.


----------



## Cadence

The pizza place I worked at never had a single complaint about the Teriyaki slice of the day*.  Our regular pizzas with pepperoni or the other usual ingredients would have them once in a while.  Focus on the problem areas!!!

...

* I cannot verify that a single human being actually ever ordered or tried.one, but that's beside the point.


----------



## CleverNickName

"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."
-Benjamin Franklin


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

_Don't be ashamed of who you are. That's your parents' job._

-Fred "Mister" Rogers


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Digital is just as evergreen, if not more so, than physical.




Major museums and archives have entire departments associated with curation and maintenance of digital historical assets, because _formats change_ over time.  There's a dozen and more word processor formats that have gone the way of cuneiform.  Same for images.  If you don't repeatedly update digital archives, they will eventually become unreadable. 

And that's not even getting into bitrot on digitally stored materials.

Overall, digital formats have been around for about 50 years.  Printed formats go back to... the printing press.  I daresay that "quantum format" may well come along eventually, and digital format will become a thing of the past...


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Don't be ashamed of who you are. That's your parents' job._
> 
> -Fred "Mister" Rogers











						This Be The Verse by Philip Larkin | Poetry Foundation
					

They naughty word you up, your mum and dad.




					www.poetryfoundation.org
				




(edit: I was linking to the poem because it seemed apt, not trying to skirt language filters, sorry)


----------



## RealAlHazred

And now, I am sad about a 40-year-old gamer comic strip, all over again. What a weird hobby!


----------



## el-remmen

prabe said:


> This Be The Verse by Philip Larkin | Poetry Foundation
> 
> 
> They naughty word you up, your mum and dad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.poetryfoundation.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (edit: I was linking to the poem because it seemed apt, not trying to skirt language filters, sorry)




/reads this while expecting his first child at 51


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> /reads this while expecting his first child at 51



I used to send it to friends and acquaintances when they were new (or newly announced) parents. I have not always been a nice person.

Also, congratulations!


----------



## el-remmen

prabe said:


> I used to send it to friends and acquaintances when they were new (or newly announced) parents. I have not always been a nice person.
> 
> Also, congratulations!




Oh I friggin' love it.

1. I love poetry.
2. I am very skeptical about this parenting thing.
3. I gotta do my best regardless, though admittedly the bar for being a decent dad (at least for people of my generation) is pretty low.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> /reads this while expecting his first child at 51



Congratulations!

And its the best of all times.  Apparently every non-core D&D book you buy for them now will still be useful for them when they're old enough to play (if WotC is telling the truth)!


----------



## Cadence

The legal/gaming dramedy TV series would have you also be a famous D&D playing lawyer on twitter.  But I doubt any mortal could make that many combined posts.


----------



## payn

This one goes out to my fellow EN Worlders. Were gonna need it. #powerpopfriday


----------



## South by Southwest

_"Excuse me, sir, but no. I came here to over-think things; it is the EN World way."_


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> This one goes out to my fellow EN Worlders. Were gonna need it. #powerpopfriday



And for those who have a gaming night tonight, maybe a little SJ Tucker?


----------



## Cadence

"Like Florida?"


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> /reads this while expecting his first child at 51



I am expecting my first child at 53, so I'm right there with you!


----------



## Aeson

el-remmen said:


> /reads this while expecting his first child at 51





RealAlHazred said:


> I am expecting my first child at 53, so I'm right there with you!



Congratulations to both of you.

So at 47 there's still hope?  Any time I mention kids my mom has to bring up older parents and a higher risk of Down's syndrome.


----------



## trappedslider

Well, that's a clever way to get around the attacking the dangers of being a woman aspect of the show.

Also, I guess a certain poster got the message about hate watching since he hasn't posted.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Aeson said:


> Congratulations to both of you.
> 
> So at 47 there's still hope?  Any time I mention kids my mom has to bring up older parents and a higher risk of Down's syndrome.



There are dangers, sure. And they're a little higher maybe than a younger person. But modern medicine has become really good about reproductive stuff, so long as you live in a state that hasn't passed any laws about camping. Oddly, I live in a camping-friendly state, and there's a lot of support in the legislation to promote healthy pregnancies. As a guy, it was (pleasant) news to me.


----------



## Cadence

RealAlHazred said:


> I am expecting my first child at 53, so I'm right there with you!




Tangentially...

Scanning my family tree, one of my great grandparents was 52 when my grandma was born.  And one of my  great great  grandparents was around 63 when my great grandfather was born.  And it feels like that wasn't that uncommon in the late 1800s early 1900s.  With 100+ more years of medicine, tech, and advice books, you got this!

(And a 51 and a 52 among the direct ancestors if I go back even farther... and I really need to stop before I start checking  the cousins x times removed or my wife's family...)


----------



## Aeson

RealAlHazred said:


> There are dangers, sure. And they're a little higher maybe than a younger person. But modern medicine has become really good about reproductive stuff, so long as you live in a state that hasn't passed any laws about camping. Oddly, I live in a camping-friendly state, and there's a lot of support in the legislation to promote healthy pregnancies. As a guy, it was (pleasant) news to me.



With all the rednecks in my state you'd think they would be more pro-camping. Sadly, that's not the case.


----------



## Aeson

No matter the question,  if someone says there is no wrong or bad answer....Chicago style pizza will be the wrong or bad answer.


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> No matter the question,  if someone says there is no wrong or bad answer....Chicago style pizza will be the wrong or bad answer.



Chicago style pizza feels like it's the right answer to all the questions about what's good in life.  Ole floppy in NYC on the other hand...


----------



## Aeson

Case in point: Chicago style pizza on zombie robot island.


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> Case in point: Chicago style pizza on zombie robot island.



When are we leaving for it? Is there a bridge or is it by ferry?  Do they take plastic, or do we need cash. Come on, grab the chain saw, shot gun, and and emp device and let's get going! I'm hungry!!


----------



## Aeson

Is the chainsaw for the zombie robots or the pizza?


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> Is the chainsaw for the zombie robots or the pizza?




Machete is the dual tool.  Chain saw is really gross with all the pizza sauce.


----------



## Aeson

Cadence said:


> Machete is the dual tool.  Chain saw is really gross with all the pizza sauce.



The place will look like a murder scene when you're done.
Detective: Is that blood all over the walls?
Officer: No, it's pizza sauce.


----------



## Ryujin

And now I'm remembering back in college when the local Pizza Hut ran out of pizza sauce and started using their spaghetti sauce instead. It was actually the best pizza that I'd ever had there.


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> The place will look like a murder scene when you're done.
> Detective: Is that blood all over the walls?
> Officer: No, it's pizza sauce.


----------



## Retreater

I guess I'm at the point to see if I should take a break from this site or to just avoid commenting on hot button topics. I'm actively running two weekly 5e games, and I think it would be a disservice to my players to not come here for advice to make their games as good as I can.


----------



## payn

Retreater said:


> I guess I'm at the point to see if I should take a break from this site or to just avoid commenting on hot button topics. I'm actively running two weekly 5e games, and I think it would be a disservice to my players to not come here for advice to make their games as good as I can.



The topics are really not that hot button, its folks choosing to make them so. I'd say stick around for your advice threads but stay out of theory if you cant help yourself.


----------



## prabe

(unrelated to previous posts in this thread)

I cannot answer your question in ways that will not come across as derogatory, because our preferences and tastes are so different; so, I will not tell you you should start with chapter one, not your prologue. I also will not tell you that attempting to model linear authored fiction with TRPGs is almost always a category error.

I genuinely hope everyone at the table enjoys your game.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Tangentially...
> 
> Scanning my family tree, one of my great grandparents was 52 when my grandma was born.  And one of my  great great  grandparents was around 63 when my great grandfather was born.  And it feels like that wasn't that uncommon in the late 1800s early 1900s.  With 100+ more years of medicine, tech, and advice books, you got this!
> 
> (And a 51 and a 52 among the direct ancestors if I go back even farther... and I really need to stop before I start checking  the cousins x times removed or my wife's family...)



My wife is 15 years younger than I am, and she's the one who has to do the heavy lifting here, so I'm liking my chances.

Or at least, I was _far_ more confident about our chances before we _both_ came down with COVID-19 this week...


----------



## Cadence

RealAlHazred said:


> My wife is 15 years younger than I am, and she's the one who has to do the heavy lifting here, so I'm liking my chances.
> 
> Or at least, I was _far_ more confident about our chances before we _both_ came down with COVID-19 this week...



Hope it goes mild and quickly!!!


----------



## Deset Gled

payn said:


> The topics are really not that hot button, its folks choosing to make them so. I'd say stick around for your advice threads but stay out of theory if you cant help yourself.




If you ignore just a couple key people (either manually or using the board function) it can really improve your ENWorld experience.


----------



## Galandris

Deset Gled said:


> If you ignore just a couple key people (either manually or using the board function) it can really improve your ENWorld experience.




My experience of ENworld expanded tremendously after ignoring 43 select people. Since, I really enjoy reading the five new posts on this board every day.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Galandris said:


> My experience of ENworld expanded tremendously after ignoring 43 select people. Since, I really enjoy reading the five new posts on this board every day.




I am reasonably certain my experience would improve exponentially if I could ignore me.


----------



## Retreater

Yeah, I'm trying to ignore topics rather than people. I think if I focus on certain subforums rather than the board as a whole, I should be ok. 
I don't deal with change especially well, particularly given my real life dynamics. Gaming has been a constant, reliable way of connecting with people (especially during the pandemic). Developments that could threaten that, I don't handle well.


----------



## Cadence

Ooh, ooh, I can translate.  

"Your pizzeria doesn't serve the good stuff."


----------



## Bedrockgames

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I am reasonably certain my experience would improve exponentially if I could ignore me.




You have attained enlightenment 

Your posts are actually very insightful I find


----------



## Malmuria

enworld: 5e DMs have all the authority and they use that authority to capriciously railroad the players.  The game is all about them and their setting. 

rest of internet: I'm a forever DM because no one wants the responsibility but also all my players expect me to be like matt mercer and make bespoke character arcs for them please halp.


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> enworld: 5e DMs have all the authority and they use that authority to capriciously railroad the players.  The game is all about them and their setting.
> 
> rest of internet: I'm a forever DM because no one wants the responsibility but also all my players expect me to be like matt mercer and make bespoke character arcs for them please halp.



Rest of internet is kinda dumb, and I try and steer clear.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Rest of internet is kinda dumb, and I try and steer clear.



Internet is kinda dumb, I try to steer clear.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Internet is kinda dumb, I try to steer clear.



I gotta have a little dumb in my life.


----------



## dragoner

Mah free-dumbs! As one of my players likes to say.


----------



## prabe

Malmuria said:


> enworld: 5e DMs have all the authority and they use that authority to capriciously railroad the players.  The game is all about them and their setting.
> 
> rest of internet: I'm a forever DM because no one wants the responsibility but also all my players expect me to be like matt mercer and make bespoke character arcs for them please halp.



It amuses me, how differently people see what's putatively the same game.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> It amuses me, how differently people see what's putatively the same game.




Given how some of these "people" view the world's three greatest pizza styles (all from once city), nothing surprises me anymore.


----------



## Malmuria

prabe said:


> It amuses me, how differently people see what's putatively the same game.



it's like with people who theorycraft a character and declare a "build" is broken without ever trying to play it.  Except some people theorycraft an entire play experience.


----------



## billd91

Well, that didn't take long. Some guys just don't seem to have any staying power.


----------



## Hussar

payn said:


> I gotta have a little dumb in my life.




Hey! Who you calling little?


----------



## Cadence

Just to try it, I'm tempted to try using ignore on everyone who annoys me for whom I can't remember a previous productive interaction, just to see if I can follow any conversations at all.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Just to try it, I'm tempted to try using ignore on everyone who annoys me for whom I can't remember a previous productive interaction, just to see if I can follow any conversations at all.



Depends, I suppose on how long your memory is for positive interactions.


----------



## dragoner

I've done it, used ignore on a lot of people, it changes the site some, calms it for sure, esp to get rid of shrill DnD discussions.


----------



## Aeson

billd91 said:


> Well, that didn't take long. Some guys just don't seem to have any staying power.



I just need a short rest. Give me a minute.


----------



## Tallifer

wow even in this threads the moderators jump in to censor right away


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I am reasonably certain my experience would improve exponentially if I could ignore me.




As someone who had you on ignore for a while, I can testify to its efficacy.


----------



## el-remmen

RealAlHazred said:


> My wife is 15 years younger than I am, and she's the one who has to do the heavy lifting here, so I'm liking my chances.
> 
> Or at least, I was _far_ more confident about our chances before we _both_ came down with COVID-19 this week...




Here's hoping you both recover quickly with no lingering effects for you two or baby.

My wife is 10 years younger than me - but OB/GYNs still act like a 40 year old woman having a baby is tempting the gods - but they don't if you are 39.


----------



## trappedslider

I had a comment in mind but then that person posted here....


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


> I had a comment in mind but then that person posted here....



Do it.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I had a comment in mind but then that person posted here....



Same


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> Same



Same


----------



## el-remmen

trappedslider said:


> I had a comment in mind but then that person posted here....






Ryujin said:


> Same






Aeson said:


> Same


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> Here's hoping you both recover quickly with no lingering effects for you two or baby.
> 
> My wife is 10 years younger than me - but OB/GYNs still act like a 40 year old woman having a baby is tempting the gods - but they don't if you are 39.



Well, if my wife's experience is one to go by, they _still _act like a 38-year-old having a child has never happened before.


----------



## Mad_Jack

RealAlHazred said:


> Well, if my wife's experience is one to go by, they _still _act like a 38-year-old having a child has never happened before.




 My parents were in their mid-to-late thirties when I was born back in 1972.  

(I kind of wonder if the doctors aren't just getting overly-dramatic in an attempt to pump up their own self esteem by trying to convince everyone that they're somehow absolutely necessary and completely indispensable, or possibly just attempting to sell you more vitamins/product X to maintain their corporate sponsorship... I mean, it's not like older women haven't been popping out kids since long before anybody could spell OBGYN.)


----------



## Cadence

RealAlHazred said:


> Well, if my wife's experience is one to go by, they _still _act like a 38-year-old having a child has never happened before.



Mine was 39 for ours.

One thing I wish I knew going in is what the error messages on the blood pressure cuff meant.  Iirc the message in question was "over pressured".  ...  It meant the cuff was having a problem, not her!


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> I had a comment in mind but then that person posted here....


----------



## Aeson

So, what you're saying is; I just have to find a woman half my age that's willing to procreate with me, and I'm good?


----------



## trappedslider

el-remmen said:


>






CleverNickName said:


>



nope

EDIT: But a mod stepped in and give the person some red text,so it's all good


----------



## RealAlHazred

Aeson said:


> So, what you're saying is; I just have to find a woman half my age that's willing to procreate with me, and I'm good?



I mean, sure? Ten years ago, I would have never thought I'd be here now. Life is a mystery.


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> nope


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


>



nope


----------



## Medic

I didn't think I'd ever be posting about my job, or even posting in this thread, but I'm seeing some confusion here that I can help dispel.

I am a transcriptionist and aspiring medical transcriptionist that has on more than one occasion done work for medical professionals, including obstetricians and NICU staff. Maternal death was so frequent before the advent of what we consider "modern" medicine that women would pen their last wills before going into labor as a reasonable precaution, to say nothing of the atrocious infant mortality rates. Though advances in evidence-based medicine have greatly diminished both of these in developed nations, each still happens frequently enough that doctors must prepare accordingly.

The specialists in neonatal wards think in worst-case scenarios, ready for any complications that may arise, and the results speak for themselves. Awareness of the once-daunting risks that were commonly associated with pregnancy has dropped significantly thanks to their diligence.

Despite this optimistic trend, many specialists can still recount times when they had to sit prospective parents down and explain that their child would be dead prior to or shortly after birth, or that a pregnancy would have to be terminated in order to save the would-be mother's life.

In all likelihood, whenever they fret over something like a woman's age, they're probably just shunting their worries onto you.

Anyways, I return to my insomnia-fueled tirades about [Current Thing].


----------



## billd91

RealAlHazred said:


> Well, if my wife's experience is one to go by, they _still _act like a 38-year-old having a child has never happened before.



I think my wife was getting some of it when she was 35 and pregnant with our youngest (who turned 18 yesterday). That said, if they set the expectation that there *could* be complications due to “advanced maternal age”, it’s a huge relief when things turn out fine. And if they don’t, you’ve been appropriately informed.


----------



## Cadence

Wrong thread.  What I get for doing things on my phone while multi-tasking.


----------



## billd91

Honestly, it was kind of a dumb question in the first place. But people sure are piling on with the idiocy.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Because I don't want it to go to waste here was the close second meme I made about the quality difference between Spelljammer and Eberron.


----------



## Ondath

eyeheartawk said:


> Because I don't want it to go to waste here was the close second meme I made about the quality difference between Spelljammer and Eberron.
> 
> View attachment 259542



It's truly shocking, and it seems to be deliberate — someone had commented on the forums a few months ago saying that WotC had told Matt Mercer he gave them *too much content* for the Wildmount book, and that they wanted less lore for their setting sourcebooks. Since Eberron and Wildmount are the only decent setting books in 5E, it's clear that they were exceptions shaped to be that way by their creators - and that the 5E core team actually prefers as little fluff as possible.

I don't want to turn this into a 5E-hating thread again, but suffice to say I think I'm done with this edition.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ondath said:


> It's truly shocking, and it seems to be deliberate — someone had commented on the forums a few months ago saying that WotC had told Matt Mercer he gave them *too much content* for the Wildmount book, and that they wanted less lore for their setting sourcebooks. Since Eberron and Wildmount are the only decent setting books in 5E, it's clear that they were exceptions shaped to be that way by their creators - and that the 5E core team actually prefers as little fluff as possible.
> 
> I don't want to turn this into a 5E-hating thread again, but suffice to say I think I'm done with this edition.



I agree about the amount of _stuff _in those books being good. My only real problem with both Eberron and Wildemount is that neither setting actually interests me. But yeah, I think days of the 300+ page setting book format that gives you most everything you actually _need _to run the setting are gone now.

I mean, what kind of pedantic nerd would want actual ship combat rules in a space sailing ship game. Just scootch closer and board or whatever, man.


----------



## billd91

A number of bannings lately because of moronic, cheap, political shots lately. Is there something in the water?


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> A number of bannings lately because of moronic, cheap, political shots lately. Is there something in the water?



I'd answer, but that might get political


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> A number of bannings lately because of moronic, cheap, political shots lately. Is there something in the water?



Probably just a sock puppeteer. I assume they will get tired soon.


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> A number of bannings lately because of moronic, cheap, political shots lately. Is there something in the water?




It feels like a lot of people are getting chippier lately about just about everything.  

Although some seem to be going out of their way to push the moderators instead of just legit being feisty.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> A number of bannings lately because of moronic, cheap, political shots lately. Is there something in the water?




billd91, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, billd91, children's ice cream. Do you know when fluoridation first began? Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, billd91. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works. 


Now,  you might ask me, Snarf ... when did you first become aware of this? Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, billd91, during the physical act of love. Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, billd91. Everyone else .... they sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid other people, billd91. But I... I do deny them my essence.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> billd91, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, *there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, billd91, children's ice cream*. Do you know when fluoridation first began? Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, billd91. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.




What about dragons?

I still want a dragon that breathes hydrofluoric acid.  We'll name the dragon Victor, and his lair will always be clean.


----------



## Medic

Snarf Zagyg said:


> billd91, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, billd91, children's ice cream. Do you know when fluoridation first began? Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, billd91. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
> 
> 
> Now,  you might ask me, Snarf ... when did you first become aware of this? Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, billd91, during the physical act of love. Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, billd91. Everyone else .... they sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid other people, billd91. But I... I do deny them my essence.


----------



## Ondath

Snarf Zagyg said:


> billd91, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, billd91, children's ice cream. Do you know when fluoridation first began? Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, billd91. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
> 
> 
> Now,  you might ask me, Snarf ... when did you first become aware of this? Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, billd91, during the physical act of love. Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, billd91. Everyone else .... they sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid other people, billd91. But I... I do deny them my essence.



This is Dr. Strangelove isn't it? It's been a while since I watched it...


----------



## billd91

Medic said:


> View attachment 259550



I scream, you scream, WE ALL SCREAM!


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Probably just a sock puppeteer. I assume they will get tired soon.



If it is, given the ones I'm seeing get banned, they're playing a *very long* game.


----------



## Gradine

eyeheartawk said:


> Because I don't want it to go to waste here was the close second meme I made about the quality difference between Spelljammer and Eberron.
> 
> View attachment 259542



Is that from a From Software game? Because I know how that fight ends. I mean, eventually


----------



## eyeheartawk

Gradine said:


> Is that from a From Software game? Because I know how that fight ends. I mean, eventually



It might be. Certainly is a similar aesthetic.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> billd91, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, billd91, children's ice cream. Do you know when fluoridation first began? Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, billd91. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
> 
> 
> Now,  you might ask me, Snarf ... when did you first become aware of this? Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, billd91, during the physical act of love. Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, billd91. Everyone else .... they sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid other people, billd91. But I... I do deny them my essence.



YEEEEHAAAAW!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ondath said:


> This is Dr. Strangelove isn't it? It's been a while since I watched it...


----------



## CleverNickName

There's a guy in my gaming group, let's call him Kevin, who sabotaged an entire gaming session because he would not, under any circumstances, contribute to the pizza order.  His reason?  The three-pizza order contained a single plain cheese pizza.  This was such an affront to his sensibilities that, upon hearing about the cheese-only pizza that another player had requested, he withdrew his contribution to the pizza dinner and refused to contribute until this oh-so-serious issue had been addressed to his satisfaction.  (He had already gotten to choose the toppings on one of the other three pizzas, so he was already getting the toppings he wanted.)  

I know I banter a lot about pizza as a metaphor in this thread, but not this time.  I wish I was making this up, but it really did happen.  This is about a real pizza order, and my real gaming group, with real people.

So I did what the DM is supposed to do:  I kept trying to de-escalate the situation and bring everyone to a compromise, but Kevin was having none of it.  He kept doubling down until he was eventually threatening to cancel the gaming session altogether.  We had no choice but to remove the offending "pointless" pizza from the order and replace it with something "worth eating" (Kevin's words, not mine) just to salvage the night.  And when the pizzas arrived, he didn't even touch that pepperoni-only pizza that he had fought so hard for.  It became clear to everyone at the table that this wasn't about Kevin getting what he wanted; it was about someone disagreeing with Kevin.

It was the worst, and dumbest, fight our gaming group has ever had.  And as you can imagine, it put everyone in a terrible mood for the whole evening and several evenings after.  Imagine the scene from my side of the DM screen:  a half-dozen sour faces and hunched shoulders, growling at each other and chewing like a bunch of feral cats, unable to concentrate or work together...and all because of what a pizza _didn't _have on it.

Even now, years later, that particular game night lives on in infamy...we joke about the "Plain Cheese Incident" all the time, even making fake concert posters riffing on The String Cheese Incident to mark the occasion.  The passing of time has smoothed things over for us, thankfully, but God as my witness, this group will never, ever split a pizza order again. 

Sorry for the weird tangent.  Anyway, here's my hot take on a devout Fighter who prays for help...


----------



## Aeson

Medic said:


> View attachment 259550



Violent crime causes ice cream sales to decline? This is outrageous. If we ban violent crime will it save our precious ice cream?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> There's a guy in my gaming group, let's call him Kevin, who sabotaged an entire gaming session because he would not, under any circumstances, contribute to the pizza order.  His reason?  The three-pizza order contained a single plain cheese pizza.  This was such an affront to his sensibilities that, upon hearing about the cheese-only pizza that another player had requested, he withdrew his contribution to the pizza dinner and refused to contribute until this oh-so-serious issue had been addressed to his satisfaction.  (He had already gotten to choose the toppings on one of the other three pizzas, so he was already getting the toppings he wanted.)
> 
> I know I banter a lot about pizza as a metaphor in this thread, but not this time.  I wish I was making this up, but it really did happen.  This is about a real pizza order, and my real gaming group, with real people.
> 
> So I did what the DM is supposed to do:  I kept trying to de-escalate the situation and bring everyone to a compromise, but Kevin was having none of it.  He kept doubling down until he was eventually threatening to cancel the gaming session altogether.  We had no choice but to remove the offending "pointless" pizza from the order and replace it with something "worth eating" (Kevin's words, not mine) just to salvage the night.  And when the pizzas arrived, he didn't even touch that pepperoni-only pizza that he had fought so hard for.  It became clear to everyone at the table that this wasn't about Kevin getting what he wanted; it was about someone disagreeing with Kevin.
> 
> It was the worst, and dumbest, fight our gaming group has ever had.  And as you can imagine, it put everyone in a terrible mood for the whole evening and several evenings after.  Imagine the scene from my side of the DM screen:  a half-dozen sour faces and hunched shoulders, growling at each other and chewing like a bunch of feral cats, unable to concentrate or work together...and all because of what a pizza _didn't _have on it.
> 
> Even now, years later, that particular game night lives on in infamy...we joke about the "Plain Cheese Incident" all the time, even making fake concert posters riffing on The String Cheese Incident to mark the occasion.  The passing of time has smoothed things over for us, thankfully, but God as my witness, this group will never, ever split a pizza order again.
> 
> Sorry for the weird tangent.  Anyway, here's my hot take on a devout Fighter who prays for help...



I used to do a bi-weekly poker game. We would play way late into the night and early morning. We always took a break to order food. I remember this joint opened that had tons of stuff so everybody could get what they wanted. I took a liking to the hot ham and cheese basket. It was $5.75 and I would just toss 8 bucks into the kitty. 

Well, one evening the host goes into this ridiculous tirade about how the price was actually 6.25 and I ordered it probably 2-4 times before he found out. Actual quote we use to this day as I walked in the door, "the ham and cheese is 6.25 you S.O.B" Nobody knew what he was talking about. After he calmed down and explained himself, we realized he was upset about the principal, despite my 8 bucks still covering tax and tip.

Some folks just pick weird battles and you just have to wonder about their head space?


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> I used to do a bi-weekly poker game. We would play way late into the night and early morning. We always took a break to order food. I remember this joint opened that had tons of stuff so everybody could get what they wanted. I took a liking to the hot ham and cheese basket. It was $5.75 and I would just toss 8 bucks into the kitty.
> 
> Well, one evening the host goes into this ridiculous tirade about how the price was actually 6.25 and I ordered it probably 2-4 times before he found out. Actual quote we use to this day as I walked in the door, "the ham and cheese is 6.25 you S.O.B" Nobody knew what he was talking about. After he calmed down and explained himself, we realized he was upset about the principal, despite my 8 bucks still covering tax and tip.
> 
> Some folks just pick weird battles and you just have to wonder about their head space?



You're probably the kind of monster who sees the vast array of Hot Pockets on offer at the store and buys ham & cheese. 

You make me sick.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I know I banter a lot about pizza as a metaphor in this thread, but not this time.  I wish I was making this up, but it really did happen.  This is about a real pizza order, and my real gaming group, with real people.




CleverNickName,

You know better than this! If you're going to talk about PIZZA, you have to talk about D&D!

Those are the rules.

So ...

_I had this friend ... KEVIN. And everyone was happy playing 5e. Except Kevin, who was playing a class he enjoyed, got his blood all angry when someone else played a homebrew Warlord....

snip...

Even now, years later, that particular game night lives on in infamy...we joke about the "Warlord Incident" all the time, even making fake movie riffing on Nic Cage's Lord of War to mark the occasion. The passing of time has smoothed things over for us, thankfully, but God as my witness, this group will never, ever split allow a Warlord in our 5e game again. Also? Pineapple._

See! That's how you talk about pizza!


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> You're probably the kind of monster who sees the vast array of Hot Pockets on offer at the store and buys ham & cheese.
> 
> You make me sick.



I am one terrible S.O.B


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> I am one terrible S.O.B



Now you're just rubbing salt in the wound. 

_That is clearly a pepperoni hot pocket_


----------



## CleverNickName

This whole response is brilliant, but this last parting shot?


Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Also? Pineapple._



That is just


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Now you're just rubbing salt in the wound.
> 
> _That is clearly a pepperoni hot pocket_



lol, it gets better with this dude. One of my friends was his roommate. They had one of those toaster ovens that can cook a French bread pizza and pretty much nothing bigger. Guy ate 2/3 of his meals out of it. One Christmas eve my buddy comes home from visiting his family to see the toaster over completely charred and sitting in the hallway by their door. He walks in to be verbally assaulted by the dude because he didnt use enough tinfoil and wrecked the toaster. Not only that but ruined his family Christmas because he couldn't make any Totinos pizza rolls...


----------



## Cadence

I don't see how calling all pineapple pizza bad is any different than things we're apparently fine with like dunking on tuna pizza or belittling ketchup on hotdogs.  In fact I like all three of those foods.  It's when they're done poorly and take away the eaters ability to enjoy the tastes that I think we all agree there is a problem.

So anyway, I really don't understand how someone can claim that any flat food with layers on it (and a single side up), or any v-shaped food delivery system, doesn't have a problem with poor taste delivery*.

* Clearly a well constructed sandwich is optimal compared to either one of these.  Merely by turning it upside down the eater can completely change the taste profile through exercise of their free will, and not be bound by a single choice given them by a would-be Gordon Ramsay.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Not only that but ruined his family Christmas because he couldn't make any Totinos pizza rolls...



Now, _THIS_ is a man I can respect.

Also, I will die on the hill that Totino's party pizzas are just ketchup and cheese on a saltine. 

I will also die on the hill that as a 36 year old man I unironically enjoy them.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> lol, it gets better with this dude. One of my friends was his roommate. They had one of those toaster ovens that can cook a French bread pizza and pretty much nothing bigger. Guy ate 2/3 of his meals out of it. One Christmas eve my buddy comes home from visiting his family to see the toaster over completely charred and sitting in the hallway by their door. He walks in to be verbally assaulted by the dude because he didnt use enough tinfoil and wrecked the toaster. Not only that but ruined his family Christmas because he couldn't make any Totinos pizza rolls...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> I will also die on the hill that as a 36 year old man I unironically enjoy them.




I will die on the hill that I unironically enjoy _anything_.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> There's a guy in my gaming group, let's call him Kevin, who sabotaged an entire gaming session because he would not, under any circumstances, contribute to the pizza order.  His reason?  The three-pizza order contained a single plain cheese pizza.  This was such an affront to his sensibilities that, upon hearing about the cheese-only pizza that another player had requested, he withdrew his contribution to the pizza dinner and refused to contribute until this oh-so-serious issue had been addressed to his satisfaction.  (He had already gotten to choose the toppings on one of the other three pizzas, so he was already getting the toppings he wanted.)
> 
> I know I banter a lot about pizza as a metaphor in this thread, but not this time.  I wish I was making this up, but it really did happen.  This is about a real pizza order, and my real gaming group, with real people.
> 
> So I did what the DM is supposed to do:  I kept trying to de-escalate the situation and bring everyone to a compromise, but Kevin was having none of it.  He kept doubling down until he was eventually threatening to cancel the gaming session altogether.  We had no choice but to remove the offending "pointless" pizza from the order and replace it with something "worth eating" (Kevin's words, not mine) just to salvage the night.  And when the pizzas arrived, he didn't even touch that pepperoni-only pizza that he had fought so hard for.  It became clear to everyone at the table that this wasn't about Kevin getting what he wanted; it was about someone disagreeing with Kevin.
> 
> It was the worst, and dumbest, fight our gaming group has ever had.  And as you can imagine, it put everyone in a terrible mood for the whole evening and several evenings after.  Imagine the scene from my side of the DM screen:  a half-dozen sour faces and hunched shoulders, growling at each other and chewing like a bunch of feral cats, unable to concentrate or work together...and all because of what a pizza _didn't _have on it.
> 
> Even now, years later, that particular game night lives on in infamy...we joke about the "Plain Cheese Incident" all the time, even making fake concert posters riffing on The String Cheese Incident to mark the occasion.  The passing of time has smoothed things over for us, thankfully, but God as my witness, this group will never, ever split a pizza order again.
> 
> Sorry for the weird tangent.  Anyway, here's my *recipe for homemade classic cheese pizza*



Fixed that for you


----------



## J.Quondam

Medic said:


> View attachment 259550



I'd be curious to know how much of that violent crime was "armed robbery of an ice cream parlor." 
Also, how do snow cones fit into this?
Inquiring minds....


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> There's a guy in my gaming group, let's call him Kevin, who sabotaged an entire gaming session because he would not, under any circumstances, contribute to the pizza order.  His reason?  The three-pizza order contained a single plain cheese pizza.  This was such an affront to his sensibilities that, upon hearing about the cheese-only pizza that another player had requested, he withdrew his contribution to the pizza dinner and refused to contribute until this oh-so-serious issue had been addressed to his satisfaction.  (He had already gotten to choose the toppings on one of the other three pizzas, so he was already getting the toppings he wanted.)
> 
> I know I banter a lot about pizza as a metaphor in this thread, but not this time.  I wish I was making this up, but it really did happen.  This is about a real pizza order, and my real gaming group, with real people.
> 
> So I did what the DM is supposed to do:  I kept trying to de-escalate the situation and bring everyone to a compromise, but Kevin was having none of it.  He kept doubling down until he was eventually threatening to cancel the gaming session altogether.  We had no choice but to remove the offending "pointless" pizza from the order and replace it with something "worth eating" (Kevin's words, not mine) just to salvage the night.  And when the pizzas arrived, he didn't even touch that pepperoni-only pizza that he had fought so hard for.  It became clear to everyone at the table that this wasn't about Kevin getting what he wanted; it was about someone disagreeing with Kevin.
> 
> It was the worst, and dumbest, fight our gaming group has ever had.  And as you can imagine, it put everyone in a terrible mood for the whole evening and several evenings after.  Imagine the scene from my side of the DM screen:  a half-dozen sour faces and hunched shoulders, growling at each other and chewing like a bunch of feral cats, unable to concentrate or work together...and all because of what a pizza _didn't _have on it.
> 
> Even now, years later, that particular game night lives on in infamy...we joke about the "Plain Cheese Incident" all the time, even making fake concert posters riffing on The String Cheese Incident to mark the occasion.  The passing of time has smoothed things over for us, thankfully, but God as my witness, this group will never, ever split a pizza order again.
> 
> Sorry for the weird tangent.  Anyway, here's my hot take on a devout Fighter who prays for help...



Had a pizza incident in my own group, back in college. We'd been playing for a few hours and when it came to dinner, we started discussing what we were going to get on the pizzas. After we'd been discussing it for a few minutes one of the guys disappeared, we thought to the washroom. He came back after a few minutes and said that he'd ordered for us all and wanted to collect. Trustingly we all kicked in. He ordered one large pizza, for 6 hungry geeks, from some high end place. Less than a slice apiece. 

The rest of us ordered from an OK 3-for-1 joint. Got 3 pizzas that while not on par with his, were not bad at all, for less than the one he'd ordered. He was not asked to contribute and was not offered any.

He tried doing this once again, at another session, but was told, "Sorry, you're on your own."


----------



## CleverNickName

Some sound advice for everyone who is struggling to Not Comment in Another ThreadTM.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> Some sound advice for everyone who is struggling to Not Comment in Another ThreadTM.
> 
> View attachment 259555



That's specially galling because their "logically sound defense" does not mean what they think it means.


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> Some sound advice for everyone who is struggling to Not Comment in Another ThreadTM.
> 
> View attachment 259555



I'm of two minds of that. Sure, I'm not going to take homework assignments from anybody... but people will say the darndest things on the internet and get away with spreading BS and disinformation because nobody confronts them for evidence backing what they're saying. And "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" as they say.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


>



Oh I could fill a whole novel with stories of these two. Like the drunken poker night that the dude wanted to demonstrate how to properly draw a sword. Really he just wanted to show us his latest purchase, which was a 17 dollar mail order machete. I will admit, the quality was surprisingly good of this machete, the cost saving was in the sheath, which was made of nylon. As he triumphantly slapped that machete to his hip and drew that blade with all the vigor he could muster, it ripped right through the nylon and split his thumb down the middle. Every time he cried out, "its not funny" we just laughed harder. He wrapped it up in bandages and we went back to playing.


----------



## Hussar

I can honestly say I've never eaten a hot pocket.


----------



## Cadence

Hussar said:


> I can honestly say I've never eaten a hot pocket.



Frozen TV Dinner or  Pot Pie?


----------



## CleverNickName

Hussar said:


> I can honestly say I've never eaten a hot pocket.



You aren't missing much.  The most memorable thing about them is completely destroying your mouth, tongue, and gums with the boiling-hot filling.  Everything else about them is completely forgettable.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> You aren't missing much.  *The most memorable thing about them* is completely destroying your mouth, tongue, and gums with the boiling-hot filling.  Everything else about them is completely forgettable.


----------



## Hussar

Cadence said:


> Frozen TV Dinner or Pot Pie?




I’ve had those. I remember frozen pies with some fondness. They were pretty yummy. Can’t get them here.


----------



## Cadence

All the folks citing the Lakers instead of the Bulls make me sad.

But I haven't been able to watch basketball in years.  I have no idea what a foul is any more.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> You aren't missing much.  The most memorable thing about them is completely destroying your mouth, tongue, and gums with the boiling-hot filling.  Everything else about them is completely forgettable.



Little known fact: Anakin actually fell into a depression full of Hot Pockets that were fresh out of the microwave, not lava.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> Little known fact: Anakin actually fell into a *depression* full of Hot Pockets that were fresh out of the microwave, not lava.



I first read this as a statement on his mental state, and - disturbingly - it made sense.


----------



## el-remmen

I have a new poll for this thread and its regulars only. . .

True or False: "This thread is the best one on EN World."

All votes are public.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> I first read this as a statement on his mental health, and - disturbingly - it made sense.



I should have made it a thread title, so that you would have something to post in that other thread.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

(I'm posting this here because I didn't know where else to put it.) 

I'm currently making a DMs Guild product explaining what Spelljamming is like in the Feywild and Shadowfell (because the 5e Spelljammer books made absolutely no mention if that was possible). One thing I noticed while writing it is how easy it is to just take the various islands from Greek and other Mythology (Ogygia, Aeaea, Atlantis) and translate them to space in order to make Feywild Space Adventures.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I have a new poll for this thread and its regulars only. . .
> 
> True or False: "This thread is the best one on EN World."
> 
> All votes are public.




The thread is awesome!

…some of the people, though … I have _serious questions about. _


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The thread is awesome!
> 
> …some of the people, though … I have _serious questions about. _



Just some?


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The thread is awesome!
> 
> …some of the people, though … I have _serious questions about. _


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> All the folks citing the Lakers instead of the Bulls make me sad.
> 
> But I haven't been able to watch basketball in years.  I have no idea what a foul is any more.



Is...is this another gaming thing where you are now subbing in basketball?


----------



## trappedslider

but they were, all of them, deceived, for another ring was made


----------



## Benjamin Olson

el-remmen said:


> I have a new poll for this thread and its regulars only. . .
> 
> True or False: "This thread is the best one on EN World."
> 
> All votes are public.



Unlike most your binary surveys I feel comfortable answering without any caveat or qualification: True.

Sure, I have no idea what people are talking about half the time, but knowing what people are talking about isn't doing most of those threads any favors.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 259605
> but they were, all of them, deceived, for another ring was made



Forged by Ted Turner in Mt. Capitalism.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Is...is this another gaming thing where you are now subbing in basketball?



Nope.  It was a sports comment.


----------



## Malmuria

All threads except this one should be capped at 25 pages.  There's really nothing more to say about anything related to role playing games after that point


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Nope.  It was a sports comment.



Hard to tell these days, hard to tell.


----------



## Aeson

Benjamin Olson said:


> Forged by Ted Turner in Mt. Capitalism.



He can't be all bad. He did bring Atlanta Braves baseball to the masses.


----------



## el-remmen

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 259605
> but they were, all of them, deceived, for another ring was made




You need to make this meme.


----------



## Hussar

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> (I'm posting this here because I didn't know where else to put it.)
> 
> I'm currently making a DMs Guild product explaining what Spelljamming is like in the Feywild and Shadowfell (because the 5e Spelljammer books made absolutely no mention if that was possible). One thing I noticed while writing it is how easy it is to just take the various islands from Greek and other Mythology (Ogygia, Aeaea, Atlantis) and translate them to space in order to make Feywild Space Adventures.



That is seriously cool.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Hussar said:


> That is seriously cool.



I'm honestly surprised that nothing like this was mentioned in any of the spelljammer products, there's not even a sidebar saying whether or not it's possible. Who wouldn't want to do space adventures with space-traveling literal ghost ships or stellar (in both meanings of the word) Domains of Delight?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> I'm honestly surprised that nothing like this was mentioned in any of the spelljammer products, there's not even a sidebar saying whether or not it's possible. Who wouldn't want to do space adventures with space-traveling literal ghost ships or stellar (in both meanings of the word) Domains of Delight?



Unless you have a good author who is really into the product (setting/region/etc.) working on it (like, say, Keith Baker for Eberron), it is really hard for Wizards to make a good product. I don't think they had a super-Spelljammer guru working that project, so it's basically going to be pap designed to offend nobody and fit seamlessly with the rest of the product line. Basically, vanilla. But you need other flavors to make the Neapolitan. It's why I still have hope for Eberron to turn into something really good. But you need a Spelljammer guru with a solid, sharable vision who can get the project underway, and I don't think they have anybody like that. But they have Ed Greenwood for FR, Matt Mercer for Wildemount, Keith Baker for Eberron, etc.


----------



## Hussar

Heh.  it really is all about how things get interpreted.

Is WotC producing "pap designed to offend nobody" or is it producing material that spurs creativity in the community and allows the community the freedom to cater to everyone?



See, I remember the old days back in 2e where it was TSR or nothing.  You only had TSR creating D&D stuff and if you didn't like what TSR banged out for this or that setting, well, tough.  There were no alternatives.  Now?  Now I can play D&D for years without ever picking up a WotC or TSR book.  You could even with just the free SRD for the mechanics, build an entire D&D campaign from 1st to 20th level in a fully fleshed out setting without ever buying a book from WotC.

It all depends on how you view it.


----------



## Ondath

Malmuria said:


> All threads except this one should be capped at 25 pages.  There's really nothing more to say about anything related to role playing games after that point



Hell, I end up not following threads I've created myself after 5-10 pages. People get bogged down in pointless debates about minutiae, or the topic devolves into something that has nothing to do with the initial question...


----------



## Hussar

For some reason my ears are burning. . 

I am getting better though. I find myself hitting that unsubscribe button more and more often of late.


----------



## Ondath

Hussar said:


> For some reason my ears are burning. .
> 
> I am getting better though. I find myself hitting that unsubscribe button more and more often of late.



Thing is, I get mired in those pointless debates myself (well, either that or I end up joining a thread well into its 25th-30th page and the topic has already changed), so I am absolutely not pointing any fingers to anyone. It's more like a collective fault that you can only explain at a group level.


----------



## Cadence

All of these threads on D&D art, and I had completely forgotten I had a copy of the Art & Arcana book of D&D art!  (Getting ready to move things to some new book shelves, and there it was sitting between books it has no relation to!)


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> All of these threads on D&D art, and I had completely forgotten I had a copy of the Art & Arcana book of D&D art!  (Getting ready to move things to some new book shelves, and there it was sitting between books it has no relation to!)



Reading my copy of the Tomb of Ra-Hotep was a really nice bonus on that thing.  

@Snarf Zagyg Have you read it?  Did you know it's the origin of your beloved Sphere of Annihilation?


----------



## CleverNickName

Bob:  "Hey look, this cool new Kickstarter is probably going to break a million!"
Ed:  "Ugh, it's all just marketing. They work the numbers to make their project look more attractive."
Bob:  "So they're just trying to sell their new product?"
Ed:  "Yes!  Exactly!"
Bob:  "Like everyone else in the free market?"
Ed:  "Um....yes."
Bob:  "And that's bad?"
Ed:  "...look it's the _principle,_ okay?  They're doing it _wrong!_"
Bob:  "A million dollars' worth of wrong, from the look of it."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Reading my copy of the Tomb of Ra-Hotep was a really nice bonus on that thing.
> 
> @Snarf Zagyg Have you read it?  Did you know it's the origin of your beloved Sphere of Annihilation?




I was fortunate enough to see a certain _Art & Arcana_ author (Witwer) during a book tour in the before-times at a literary festival I try to go to every year. 

I missed the last two years (ahem, one because it didn't exist) but I am looking forward to this year! That, and a concert tonight. 

I feel like I just emerged from a sphere of annihilation.


----------



## Mannahnin

If anyone else is excited by the Tomb of Ra-Hotep, as a reminder, the WebDM crew got together with Wandering DMs for a live play of it for Halloween 2020.  I thought it was pretty great, even though I'm not a big fan of watching streamed D&D.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Hussar said:


> Is WotC producing "pap designed to offend nobody" or is it producing material that spurs creativity in the community and allows the community the freedom to cater to everyone?



I think they started out doing it that way. The DMG shows that kind of spark. But they've been changing their methods slightly with each product release. Tasha's had some of that, but also some patches to "fix" things in the PHB. With Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, they drastically changed how monster statblocks will be produced, which is a tweak that impacts subclasses that were previously designed.

Ultimately, they have to figure out how to profit from the D&D franchise, while still allowing people full scope to tinker and customize. It's absolutely doable (it's been done by other game companies in previous years), but I don't know how easy it is to do in an era of Twitch streaming, and VTTs, and online subscription models.


----------



## prabe

Hussar said:


> Is WotC producing "pap designed to offend nobody" or is it producing material that spurs creativity in the community and allows the community the freedom to cater to everyone?



Why not both?


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Why not both?


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Bob:  "Hey look, this cool new Kickstarter is probably going to break a million!"
> Ed:  "Ugh, it's all just marketing. They work the numbers to make their project look more attractive."
> Bob:  "So they're just trying to sell their new product?"
> Ed:  "Yes!  Exactly!"
> Bob:  "Like everyone else in the free market?"
> Ed:  "Um....yes."
> Bob:  "And that's bad?"
> Ed:  "...look it's the _principle,_ okay?  They're doing it _wrong!_"
> Bob:  "A million dollars' worth of wrong, from the look of it."



Some have legitimately (illegitimately?) done it wrong by having people pledge to Kickstarters with the promise of their money back, plus interest, after the campaign has closed. This is fraud. It is also against the Kickstarter rules, but that's minor by comparison.


----------



## dragoner

Hussar said:


> For some reason my ears are burning. .
> 
> I am getting better though. I find myself hitting that unsubscribe button more and more often of late.



I just cut to the chase, and don't post in the first place anymore.


----------



## RealAlHazred

You guys need to pledge to my Kickstarter when it goes live. It's for the crowdfunded convention LongCon, to take place on Long Island in 2024. We'll have panels of Kickstarter creators talking about how to make money running a Kickstarter, NFT investors talking about how to can make a fortune on the Blockchain, and Twitch streamers talking about how you can get rich playing games for a living! There'll be vendors selling the latest RPG NFTs, and we'll have an NFT photobooth, where you can instantly take a booth photo and mint it into an NFT on the blockchain! We'll also have plenty of games being played, where we're going to introduce blockchain character sheets -- yes, your character, now part of the eternal blockchain!

The Kickstarter will include several tiers, including higher cost tiers for early pledgers -- at the $500 level, you can  sit in on a game run by Ernie Gygax, Jr.*. At the $1,500 level, you can go to dinner with Justin LaNasa†! Get in super-early, and you can even qualify for a limited number of new cryptocurrency being introduced as part of LongCon -- LongCoin, a new RPG-based token!

* Pending fallout from any current or future split.
† Travel expenses to and from North Carolina not covered.

In case it needs to be said, /s.

EDIT: You know, I thought when I typed that, that there was no way, *NO WAY*, somebody would _already _have made a cryptocurrency and called it "LongCoin." It's _too obvious_! Well, it turns out that, today, I'm the fool!


----------



## payn

OMG, work is killing me. For the last 4 years I have told my vendor two direct things. No hot electrical work ever, and I need 4 weeks notice for shutdown projects. At least twice a year I get asked how certain the no hot work policy is?; its G D certain, and weekly they try to schedule in less than 4 weeks...


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> OMG, work is killing me. For the last 4 years I have told my vendor two direct things. No hot electrical work ever, and I need 4 weeks notice for shutdown projects. At least twice a year I get asked how certain the no hot work policy is?; its G D certain, and weekly they try to schedule in less than 4 weeks...



That's rough.
"Hot electrical work" means ... the circuit must be hot while you're working on it (like for whatever reason you can't just trip a breaker or something)? IIRC your gig is HVAC, so leaving that sort of thing for specialists seems reasonable to this total outsider.


----------



## Cadence

I mean, they were originally from Star Frontiers, and look who....


----------



## Ryujin

"Hot Electrical Work" - Translation for the IT crowd on the board. Think of it like working on live data, except that the data is people. You, specifically.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> I mean, they were originally from Star Frontiers, and look who....



Still waiting for Dralasites. "Clickety-click, blaster trick!"


----------



## CleverNickName

In my line of work, "hot work" is anything that involves an open flame or spark.  Cutting, grinding, electrical wiring, but especially welding.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> That's rough.
> "Hot electrical work" means ... the circuit must be hot while you're working on it (like for whatever reason you can't just trip a breaker or something)? IIRC your gig is HVAC, so leaving that sort of thing for specialists seems reasonable to this total outsider.



Close, its placing CTs on high voltage panels to measure electricity. You may ask but doesn't the utility do this when you get electricity from them? They do, but my system breaks it down to how much the lights, HVAC, refr, etc.. is using on individual levels. Also, it measure solar output. 

There is a low chance of causing an arc flash live, but its a damn dangerous effect if it happens. See video below for a demonstration (also dont work on panels in slacks and dress shoes)


----------



## Benjamin Olson

RealAlHazred said:


> EDIT: You know, I thought when I typed that, that there was no way, *NO WAY*, somebody would _already _have made a cryptocurrency and called it "LongCoin." It's _too obvious_! Well, it turns out that, today, I'm the fool!



I had an idle scheme with friends for over a year to create TulipCoin, a parody cryptocurrency in honor of the Tulip Mania speculative bubble. But this January someone launched their own TulipCoin.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Well, that thread certainly took off quickly. Not really surprising, given the subject matter.


----------



## CleverNickName

For the love of Pelor, hire a cultural sensitivity expert to review your drafts before you send them to the printers.  What on Oerth were you thinking?!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Benjamin Olson said:


> I had an idle scheme with friends for over a year to create TulipCoin, a parody cryptocurrency in honor of the Tulip Mania speculative bubble. But this January someone launched their own TulipCoin.



My pitch is to start LongCon on Kickstarter, with tiers relating to "tickets" -- $150 for a full four-day pass, $500 for VIP tickets (with vague bennies), and higher tiers for additional bennies. The KS campaign page would guarantee that tickets would only be available on the KS and on-site. Honest!

Assuming it funded, six months or so before LongCon, rumors would drop of cash flow problems. I would announce that you could only pay for things on-site using special wristbands, and you could only add currency to the wristbands with LongCoin, which would boost the cryptocurrency. Then, three months before, there would be a crash sale of additional tickets, to coincide with an announcement that we got additional attractions: a nerd-adjacent band (TMBG? Darkest of the Hillside Thickets? I don't know, somebody hard to reach would have been ideal) along with reclusive gaming names, with the "crash sale" prices being double what the KS prices were for tickets.

And then, we would FyreFestival the crap out of it, cashing out all tokens and taking out the cash, and vanishing.

The venue would never have heard from us at all.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Frankly, I am as dumb as a box of hammers. I'm rather shocked some of the suspected grifters in the hobby haven't done something just like this already.


----------



## Medic

CleverNickName said:


> For the love of Pelor, hire a cultural sensitivity expert to review your drafts before you send them to the printers.  What on Oerth were you thinking?!



You: Meticulously sift through minutiae to pick out every bit that anyone may find insensitive or distasteful. Create a product that is palatable to the mass market for at least a decade or two.

Me: Make a blatant allusions to hot-button topics. Use the resultant controversy to generate renewed attention for my product again and again, then continually take credit for "fixing" it.

Outrage? Free marketing.


----------



## CleverNickName

Nope.  Not gonna comment in_ this thread_ either.


----------



## Medic

CleverNickName said:


> Nope.  Not gonna comment in_ this thread_ either.



I'm not actually advocating for the practice. I honestly just have a really hard time believing that nobody, at all, suspected anything.


----------



## Retreater

Medic said:


> I'm not actually advocating for the practice. I honestly just have a really hard time believing that nobody, at all, suspected anything.



I might not have caught it myself, but then again I'm not a cultural sensitivity reader or a person who would be on the lookout for negative depictions of cultures. Others in my gaming circle who are more attuned to these issues would've certainly caught this.
To imply that Wizards did this intentionally to stir controversy, I just don't buy that. It certainly goes against their messaging and efforts to this point. 
I would expect a statement from the company forthcoming.


----------



## Medic

Retreater said:


> I might not have caught it myself, but then again I'm not a cultural sensitivity reader or a person who would be on the lookout for negative depictions of cultures.



I will take you at your word. My group and I found it quite evocative, so perhaps it just "seemed" obvious to me.


----------



## Hussar

To be completely honest, I probably wouldn't have noticed it unless I was specifically reading the background of the race.  Which, again, honestly, I almost never, ever do.  So, yeah, this would have totally flown under my radar.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Hussar said:


> To be completely honest, I probably wouldn't have noticed it unless I was specifically reading the background of the race.  Which, again, honestly, I almost never, ever do. So, yeah, this would have totally flown under my radar.



Yeah. The most "controversy" for the race I'd heard of until now is how brokenly written their mechanics are. And I personally think they're one of the most boring races in Spelljammer (with a *really stupid* design for how their skin-flaps work/look), so I wasn't really interested in their race's lore. I'm now kind of nervous about my Polynesian-style Domain of Delight.


----------



## Older Beholder

pizza


----------



## eyeheartawk

Kickstarter was a mistake.


----------



## Cadence

Checking the news and ..









						How I Survived Judging a Deep Dish Pizza Contest
					

Eating all this pizza is as fun and as difficult as you imagine.




					thetakeout.com


----------



## dragoner

What a sad end to the Yazirians from Star Frontiers, can't say they were my favorites, that was the Vrusk, except they didn't deserve this.


----------



## Cadence

Amazing how that one little button can make a thread so much more pleasant (and presumably any future ones vaguely like it).


----------



## payn

That thread is about books and not albums, but I guess I never knew stations wouldn't play this Grace Jones track. (Its fab by the way!)


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Amazing how that one little button can make a thread so much more pleasant (and presumably any future ones vaguely like it).


----------



## RealAlHazred

I don't know too much about Spelljammer, and am only mildly familiar with Star Frontiers, where the Yazirians were my second-favorite species after the Dralasites and before the Vrusk. I had no idea they'd been ported to Spelljammer until recently, and hadn't read the lore until just now. I have to say, I'm not fond of it. It's not even from a sensitivity standpoint (though even oblivious me can see it), it's just _really bad lore_.


----------



## Raunalyn

If someone is getting into pointless arguments on multiple threads and having to click unsubscribe constantly as a result, maybe the problem is that person, not everyone else.


----------



## prabe

I'm pretty sure the popular judgment on that feature is correct.


----------



## Malmuria

The best way to make pizza at home is grilling, especially on a charcoal grill. It’s a bit tricky to get the timing right, as you have basically 30 seconds to put on the sauce and toppings, but the result is excellent


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> The best way to make pizza at home is grilling, especially on a charcoal grill. It’s a bit tricky to get the timing right, as you have basically 30 seconds to put on the sauce and toppings, but the result is excellent




I tried to follow your advice, but the Totinos kept falling between the slats on the grate of the grill.


----------



## el-remmen

A certain now locked thread reminds me of how for all the potential cringiness still possible when topics on race and pizza come up, it is vastly different from when I first was on these boards and the gaslighting and denial would have been at last 50% of the posts (if not more) and that was the kind of thing that was not moderated back then.


----------



## Umbran

RealAlHazred said:


> And then, we would FyreFestival the crap out of it, cashing out all tokens and taking out the cash, and vanishing.




So, you're basically stealing the plot of _The Producers_.


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> So, you're basically stealing the plot of _The Producers_.



Look what it did for Brooks ...


----------



## Cadence

You should know by this point that their reply will be to the effect that your favorite pizzeria (which they like and eat at!) never serves the good kind of pizza.    I am thus suspecting that you are using conversations with them about your favorite pizzeria to avoid some work you are supposed to doing that is really unpleasant.  I mean, I'm often on here to avoid work too... but none of it is that bad.  And so, you have my deepest sympathies!!!  I sincerely hope that the great pizza maker of this universe will listen to your order, and grant that you do indeed, finally get to pursue the kind of work you would like to be doing.


----------



## dragoner

I freak people out by eating pizza with a knife and fork.


----------



## Cadence

dragoner said:


> I freak people out by eating pizza with a knife and fork.



The hubub this made in different places!


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Gradine

Hey maybe the person with the pronoun joke in their custom title isn't engaging in good faith and maybe they should just be ignored?


----------



## Aeson

Sometimes it would be useful if folks provided a link to the thread they're not commenting on.


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> Sometimes it would be useful if folks provided a link to the thread they're not commenting on.



I've often thought that as I go try to search it out...    
but I think the mods have strongly frowned on clearly identifying outside threads in here.


----------



## Deset Gled

Gradine said:


> Hey maybe the person with the pronoun joke in their custom title isn't engaging in good faith and maybe they should just be ignored?




OTOH, there are so many times I have been absolutely sure someone was not posting in good faith, only to later learn they actually were.


----------



## Aeson

Can we blurrily identify threads?


----------



## el-remmen

Aeson said:


> Can we blurrily identify threads?




If I take off my glasses the whole dang forum is blurry!


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> If I take off my glasses the whole dang forum is blurry!



That reminds me I need to make an appointment. I think its time for a new prescription


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> I've often thought that as I go try to search it out...
> but I think the mods have strongly frowned on clearly identifying outside threads in here.




Can I link to posts I made into Twitter threads instead because I thought better of posting them on ENWorld as I feel like I have already heard everything everyone on the forums has to say on the subject?


----------



## Aeson

el-remmen said:


> If I take off my glasses the whole dang forum is blurry!



Same. I need to use reading glasses.


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> Can I link to
> 
> 
> Can I link to posts I made into Twitter threads instead because I thought better of posting them on ENWorld as I feel like I have already heard everything everyone on the forums has to say on the subject?



Oooh! Would bingo cards be in poor taste?  

Hmmm... Yeah, bingo cards would probably be in poor taste.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> That reminds me I need to make an appointment. I think its time for a new prescription




That's how you know you're getting old.

Your pharmaceuticals are all prescription.

_I'm waiting for my man
26 dollars in my hand
Up to Lexington 125
Feel sick and dirty
more dead than alive
I'm waiting for my man_


----------



## J.Quondam

Oh, yes! G-3 is _"Snarf butchers a lyric"_

*BINGO!!*


----------



## CleverNickName

Yep, that thread ended in the usual fashion.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> Oh, yes! G-3 is _"Snarf butchers a lyric"_
> 
> *BINGO!!*




You know, the ONE TIME I actually quote a song _verbatim, _and I get accused of butchering the lyrics.

For shame.

Anyway, apropos of nothing (although tangentially relevant to my last post), I was at a concert last night. Things were being passed around and I recalled, perhaps a little later than I should have, that some of the things today are much stronger than they were in past.


----------



## J.Quondam

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Anyway, apropos of nothing (although tangentially relevant to my last post), I was at a concert last night. Things were being passed around and I recalled, perhaps a little later than I should have, that some of the things today are much stronger than they were in past.



Oh, yes. Yes they are.


----------



## Gammadoodler

"Prove how D&D fantasy worlds *really* work"

..is a relentlessly strange request..


----------



## eyeheartawk

I just ate the worst kind of pizza. 

A tuna sandwich from 7-11. 

Pray for me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gammadoodler said:


> "Prove how D&D fantasy worlds *really* work"
> 
> ..is a relentlessly strange request..




_I may not have the exact answer, but unobtainium is involved. _
-James Cameron, probably.


----------



## el-remmen

J.Quondam said:


> Oooh! Would bingo cards be in poor taste?
> 
> Hmmm... Yeah, bingo cards would probably be in poor taste.



Definitely, but I can DM one to anyone interested with the caveat that it not be shared on the boards as to not cause static. 
It doesn't single people out on purpose, however.

Edit: Well, it might single out Snarf, but he hardly counts.


----------



## Umbran

eyeheartawk said:


> I just ate the worst kind of pizza.
> 
> A tuna sandwich from 7-11.




To quote The Tick: "Bad move, Neil!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Definitely, but I can DM one to anyone interested with the caveat that it not be shared on the boards as to not cause static.
> It doesn't single people out on purpose, however.
> 
> Edit: Well, it might single out Snarf, but he hardly counts.




There are two reasons why my innumeracy should not single me out for such scorn!

1. I could not spell BINGO if you spotted me the B, I and N.

2. It's perfectly fine that I lack self-awareness, as I am also unaware of other people.

3. Every village needs its idiot, and EnWorld has a Snarf.


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> I just ate the worst kind of pizza.
> 
> A tuna sandwich from 7-11.
> 
> Pray for me.



For a short while, at a poor job I had many years ago, that was basically the best lunch option near me.  Thankfully the sandwiches came from a local sandwich shop, so they weren't horrible.



Snarf Zagyg said:


> There are two reasons why my innumeracy should not single me out for such scorn!
> 
> 1. I could not spell BINGO if you spotted me the B, I and N.
> 
> 2. It's perfectly fine that I lack self-awareness, as I am also unaware of other people.
> 
> 3. Every village needs its idiot, and EnWorld has a Snarf.



I continue to appreciate your shtick.


----------



## Mannahnin

On topic...

Just until the last year?  Not since 2017 when the PAC which has now taken over was formed right after Charlottesville, in response to the party TOO HARSHLY condemning f***ing Nazis?  Just the last year?


----------



## dragoner

My creative process:


----------



## J.Quondam

A propos of nothing, probably:









						A pizza topping that divides the world
					

In the 1960s, a chef in Canada created a pizza topping that swept the world. So why is it so widely loved – and hated?




					www.bbc.com
				




Most fascinating is that the debate almost started a war between Canada and Iceland! *

_* Well okay, not really._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> A propos of nothing, probably:
> 
> Most fascinating is that the debate almost started a war between Canada and Iceland! *
> 
> _* Well, okay, not really._




You know, Canadians will apologize about everything. Even about how much they apologize.







And what do we have for this abomination? CRICKETS.

Do we want an apology? No.

This .... _topping_ ... demands atonement and reparations.


----------



## CleverNickName

Meh, I just eat it.  (shrug)  It's as divisive as you want it to be, right?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There are two reasons why my innumeracy should not single me out for such scorn!
> 
> 1. I could not spell BINGO if you spotted me the B, I and N.
> 
> 2. It's perfectly fine that I lack self-awareness, as I am also unaware of other people.
> 
> 3. Every village needs its idiot, and EnWorld has a Snarf.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You know, Canadians will apologize about everything. Even about how much they apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what do we have for this abomination? CRICKETS.
> 
> Do we want an apology? No.
> 
> This .... _topping_ ... demands atonement and reparations.



Hey, we declared war on Belgium over that reprobate TinTin and we wouldn't be afraid to declare war on you, either!

(Well, it was the Rhinoceros Party of Canada that declared war but we won AND got reparations. A crate of mussels and a case of beer! Yes, I'm a 'card carrying'* member)

(*We don't have cards)


----------



## Malmuria

An oddity of dnd fandom is that people are both avid consumers of media (including sci fi and fantasy literature) and yet whenever issues of race and colonialism come up are particularly and almost obstinately media illiterate.  Seeing how a particular aspect of the game resembles and recapitulates real world racism is just a matter of understanding the genre conventions and tropes of racism in culture.  This is the exact skill you need in order to create fantasy rpg content.  In other words, if you ask some dnd fans, 'how do I create a Moorcock-inspired setting' they'll have no problems giving you a list of d100 ideas.  There is a complete and relatively sophisticated understanding of how to see and replicate particular genre conventions.  Yet if you ask them to recognize conventions and tropes related to racism, the response becomes 'huh?  I just see an orc' (or whatever fantasy race).


----------



## billd91

Malmuria said:


> An oddity of dnd fandom is that people are both avid consumers of media (including sci fi and fantasy literature) and yet whenever issues of race and colonialism come up are particularly and almost obstinately media illiterate.  Seeing how a particular aspect of the game resembles and recapitulates real world racism is just a matter of understanding the genre conventions and tropes of racism in culture.  This is the exact skill you need in order to create fantasy rpg content.  In other words, if you ask some dnd fans, 'how do I create a Moorcock-inspired setting' they'll have no problems giving you a list of d100 ideas.  There is a complete and relatively sophisticated understanding of how to see and replicate particular genre conventions.  Yet if you ask them to recognize conventions and tropes related to racism, the response becomes 'huh?  I just see an orc' (or whatever fantasy race).



Give you a bunch of ideas for a Moorcock-inspired setting? Sure, *if* it is a part of their experience (in this case as readers). Ask someone for whom it is not and they won't be able to help much.
Recognizing conventions and tropes related to racism isn't that different - they are also experience based. If you aren't on the negative end of them or don't deliberately study them, you're not going to easily recognize them or fit them in your perspective any more than ideas for a Moorcock-inspired setting for someone who has never read Moorcock. And a lot of white gamers, even ones who are avid consumers of media, are privileged enough to not be on the negative end of those tropes and conventions.
This is why movements to ban more in-depth education on these topics are so problematic. Same with denigration of liberal arts education or the (currently) oft mentioned "soft" disciplines that don't deserve student loan relief (according to some).


----------



## Hussar

You mean @bill91, that racism get propogated through ignorance and an inability to recognize it? Yeah, I’d agree with that. Couple it to a visceral reaction to any criticism that someone might just not understand the issues due to ignorance and you wind up with all sorts of dumpster fires.


----------



## billd91

Hussar said:


> You mean @bill91, that racism get propogated through ignorance and an inability to recognize it? Yeah, I’d agree with that. Couple it to a visceral reaction to any criticism that someone might just not understand the issues due to ignorance and you wind up with all sorts of dumpster fires.



And it's an issue with a pretty significant magnitude as well. We all do it about some things here and there, even those of us who are curious enough to look things up or are educated in at least some of these issues.
Then you've got to factor in just how *UN*-curious most people seem to be. What else explains the proliferation of people who say they are Star Trek fans complaining about how political Star Trek is?


----------



## dragoner

Malmuria said:


> An oddity of dnd fandom is that people are both avid consumers of media (including sci fi and fantasy literature) and yet whenever issues of race and colonialism come up are particularly and almost obstinately media illiterate.  Seeing how a particular aspect of the game resembles and recapitulates real world racism is just a matter of understanding the genre conventions and tropes of racism in culture.  This is the exact skill you need in order to create fantasy rpg content.  In other words, if you ask some dnd fans, 'how do I create a Moorcock-inspired setting' they'll have no problems giving you a list of d100 ideas.  There is a complete and relatively sophisticated understanding of how to see and replicate particular genre conventions.  Yet if you ask them to recognize conventions and tropes related to racism, the response becomes 'huh?  I just see an orc' (or whatever fantasy race).



It is because the racism has no meaningful impact on their lives.


----------



## CleverNickName

dragoner said:


> It is because the racism has no meaningful impact on their lives



...or a directly positive one.  A lot of people benefit from the privileges of their birth, and they can't abide seeing those privileges demonized.


----------



## dragoner

CleverNickName said:


> ...or a directly positive one.  A lot of people benefit from the privileges of their birth, and they can't abide seeing those privileges demonized.



Maybe, or they feel guilt or something.


----------



## prabe

There is nothing like an argument between people who say the answer might be no and people who say the answer must be yes.


----------



## Hussar

Honestly I think the whole “no meaningful impact” point is both probably the most likely and the most infuriating at the same time. People whose only experience of being any sort of minority is that two weeks they spent in another country ten years ago but still have these strongly held opinions about race and culture issues just push all my buttons at the same time.


----------



## Raunalyn

I find it remarkably amusing when someone presents themselves as self-righteous and holier-than-thou, talking down to others and criticizing them while they engage in the very same behavior that they, themselves, are criticizing others for.

I believe there's a word for that. Several actually. What's great here is that a lot of people are starting to see it. Probably why that unfollow button is becoming so very important to this particular individual.


----------



## Mannahnin

Hussar said:


> ...any sort of minority is that two weeks they spent in another country ten years ago but still ....



Or never.


----------



## payn

I have a weird emotional day going on. Its like this;


----------



## el-remmen

So I sent this link to my players with a note of thanks for not being as annoying as this guy:   






						Arcane Anthems on Instagram: "How do you encourage role play amongst your players?  The right music deepens role play moments! Use my stream friendly TTRPF music for free! Link in my bio!  Original Song: Levitating by Dua Lipa  #dungeonsanddragons #d
					






					www.instagram.com
				




(you have to be logged into instagram before you click the link to see it)

Me (responding to a prospective player who sings me this song): Clearly you put in a lot of effort, it is kind of impressive, and I respect the sentiment, but. . .


----------



## eyeheartawk

el-remmen said:


> So I sent this link to my players with a note of thanks for not being as annoying as this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arcane Anthems on Instagram: "How do you encourage role play amongst your players?  The right music deepens role play moments! Use my stream friendly TTRPF music for free! Link in my bio!  Original Song: Levitating by Dua Lipa  #dungeonsanddragons #d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.instagram.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (you have to be logged into instagram before you click the link to see it)
> 
> Me (responding to a prospective player who sings me this song): Clearly you put in a lot of effort, it is kind of impressive, and I respect the sentiment, but. . .



How much you wanna bet this guy has an Adventure Zone tattoo? 

He really fits the mold.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> How much you wanna bet this guy has an Adventure Zone tattoo?
> 
> He really fits the mold.



I just got out of an album of the month club with some co-workers. This months selection sounded like it was custom made for CIA sonic  torture. Pretty good in comparison to this dudes track.


----------



## el-remmen

Oh c'mon - I didn't mean to pick on the dude himself, but the "speaker" in the song which I see as a parody.


----------



## Gradine

Yeah, let's not yuck each others' yums in this thread.





...unless it's about pineapple on pizza


----------



## CleverNickName

How the haters _think _they look:











How the haters _actually _look:


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> How the haters _think _they look:



No, I _know _I look really smart and cool.


----------



## billd91

You know, if you bring up the same topic in every discussion you get involved with, to the point where people notice it and call it out, maybe you *should* try to come up with something else to talk about.


----------



## el-remmen

billd91 said:


> You know, if you bring up the same topic in every discussion you get involved with, to the point where people notice it and call it out, maybe you *should* try to come up with something else to talk about.




What really amazes me is that there are enough people on here that match that description that I am not sure who you mean!


----------



## Malmuria

Look, pizza, hot dogs, sandwiches, and tacos ARE ALL SEPARATE TOPICS, ok?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> You know, if you bring up the same topic in every discussion you get involved with, to the point where people notice it and call it out, maybe you *should* try to come up with something else to talk about.




On the one hand, I agree with you. 

On the other hand, Bards suck. 

#GREYHAWKCONFIRMED!


----------



## billd91

el-remmen said:


> What really amazes me is that there are enough people on here that match that description that I am not sure who you mean!



And after the responses I've gotten, *neither do I*!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> On the one hand, I agree with you.
> 
> On the other hand, Bards suck.
> 
> #GREYHAWKCONFIRMED!



Leo agrees with you. I kinda like Bards though.


----------



## Gradine

"Um actually, any gaming where every detail isn't meticulously planned and followed to the letter is metagaming and definitionally not roleplaying and bad and wrong."
"...this is a thread about cantrips."


----------



## Malmuria

In a normal world (+) wouldn't have to be specific designation for those seeking polite conversation about the super important topic of...(checks notes)...table top role playing games, but here we are


----------



## Cadence

Wow did getting that piece of pineapple on that piece of pizza that one time way back when scar you.  I'm surprised you can even set foot in a pizzeria anymore!


----------



## Gradine

Thoughts: taking all the pineapple off the pizza without comment (and only for _some_ pizzas) is absolutely the least they could have done. Why the hell were the pineapples there in the first place? How will they keep the pineapple off in the future? Why is nobody with any degree of responsibility addressing the mother naughty wording pineapple?


----------



## RealAlHazred

I am pleased to report that both of us coming down with a case of the COVIDs has not impacted pregnancy at all. Player 3 still scheduled for entry April 2023.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> So, you're basically stealing the plot of _The Producers_.



I mean, I stole it from several festivals who themselves stole it from _*The Producers*_. And once somebody else has stolen something, everybody knows it no longer belongs to anyone!


----------



## Hussar

Yup, nope.  Time to unsubscribe.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Just in case anybody was wondering, a heavy toll was paid for my tuna sandwich pizza. 

I have strayed from the path and was burned by the light.


----------



## trappedslider

so, i priced some of the mats,i'll need and bought the pants and goggles and the shirt. Someone who makes costumes reached out to and after telling the person my budget and the time frame, they said it would be roughly 1000 for them to make it. So, that was a no go for me lol. My brother has a 3d printer and said his MIGHT be able to print some of the parts of the costume, but I'm also going to check on a local business that has a 3d printer and see how much it cost with them. If it's not doable, I'll end up making it out of either ENA foam or ENA clay that hardens. I just need to figure out if it is boots she has on or what. Also, you would think it would easy to find wrist-length fingerless dark red leather or fake leather gloves, you'd be wrong lol


----------



## Ryujin

I've been waiting a couple of years for a friend to do the same CosPlay, using a chain shirt that I made for her. There are more than a few different styles that the character has been drawn in. Here's the picture that I worked from and the chainmail.


----------



## el-remmen

RealAlHazred said:


> I am pleased to report that both of us coming down with a case of the COVIDs has not impacted pregnancy at all. Player 3 still scheduled for entry April 2023.




Our due date was yesterday! Still no signs. . . but soon.


----------



## Aeson

Are you going to light your head on fire? Red hair isn't enough. You have to go en fuego or go la casa.


----------



## el-remmen

What character is that?


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> What character is that?



Chandra Nalaar from Magic.


----------



## payn

#powerpopfriday


----------



## eyeheartawk

Some people just hate banter of any kind and just want to watch the world burn.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> I've been waiting a couple of years for a friend to do the same CosPlay, using a chain shirt that I made for her. There are more than a few different styles that the character has been drawn in. Here's the picture that I worked from and the chainmail.View attachment 259996View attachment 259997



That is amazing . I wish I could afford one. But I'm settling for the Shang-Ci Cosplay Costume Red Jacket I found on Amazon


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> That is amazing . I wish I could afford one. But I'm settling for the Shang-Ci Cosplay Costume Red Jacket I found on Amazon



Got to work within your budget though, when it comes to chainmail, you can pick up some crappy butted ring steel stuff for maybe $80.00. What I made was made with bright aluminum (basically the equivalent of aluminum welding wire) so it's pretty light. You could do the scale style using an air brush on cloth. Hell, if it's good enough for Amazon, it's good enough for CosPlay


----------



## Mannahnin

Ryujin said:


> Got to work within your budget though, when it comes to chainmail, you can pick up some crappy butted ring steel stuff for maybe $80.00. What I made was made with bright aluminum (basically the equivalent of aluminum welding wire) so it's pretty light. You could do the scale style using an air brush on cloth. Hell, if it's good enough for Amazon, it's good enough for CosPlay



I remember in my larping days 25+ years ago trying on someone's aluminum hauberk, after wearing a regular one a number of times.  It was the immediate, visceral, physical experience of the old D&D rule of magic armor being so light it was unencumbering.


----------



## Ryujin

Mannahnin said:


> I remember in my larping days 25+ years ago trying on someone's aluminum hauberk, after wearing a regular one a number of times.  It was the immediate, visceral, physical experience of the old D&D rule of magic armor being so light it was unencumbering.



The first shirt I ever made was in 3/8", 12 gauge aluminum rings. The thing weighed maybe 40 pounds. I think that it would have been SCA legal for combat. By comparison the 1/4". 16 gauge costume grade shirts that I make, like the one pictured, are in the 6-10 pound range. You don't really feel it any more than you do regular clothing. More than once I've wished that I had the money and a neutral gas welding chamber, so that I could make a full shirt out of titanium rings.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Got to work within your budget though, when it comes to chainmail, you can pick up some crappy butted ring steel stuff for maybe $80.00. What I made was made with bright aluminum (basically the equivalent of aluminum welding wire) so it's pretty light. You could do the scale style using an air brush on cloth. Hell, if it's good enough for Amazon, it's good enough for CosPlay
> 
> View attachment 260014



I aim to get those same style shoulders either EVA foam or 3D printed and then paint them. I have the foam to make the bracer tubing, which will likely also be made from foam.

Here's the top I'm getting


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I aim to get those same style shoulders either EVA foam or 3D printed and then paint them. I have the foam to make the bracer tubing, which will likely also be made from foam.
> 
> Here's the top I'm getting https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09FTJ2DH1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1



Have you already tried the heat gun method of detailing armour? Also, a heat gun can be used to make some interesting stuff, without needing heavier tools. For example the acrylic bracers in this picture. Also, PVC and Kydex are thermoplastics that are very easily shaped with the application of a little heat.


----------



## CleverNickName

That was the worst, least-funny "comic" I think I've ever read.  I could spit nails.
Hatred of any kind has no place in our hobby.


----------



## Aeson

A woman I gamed with was using soda can pull tabs to make chainmail. She was working on it at the table once.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Have you already tried the heat gun method of detailing armour? Also, a heat gun can be used to make some interesting stuff, without needing heavier tools. For example the acrylic bracers in this picture. Also, PVC and Kydex are thermoplastics that are very easily shaped with the application of a little heat.
> 
> 
> View attachment 260021



I'm waiting to see what I can get done via 3D printing before getting a heat gun and the foam, I've even got a step-by-step video on youtube saved that shows how to make a bracer out of the foam.

I was told that I should use clay foam to make the details like the red gem on the bracer. I'm going to try to start saving so I can get one of the cosplay recommended 3D printers.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I'm waiting to see what I can get done via 3D printing before getting a heat gun and the foam, I've even got a step-by-step video on youtube saved that shows how to make a bracer out of the foam.
> 
> I was told that I should use clay foam to make the details like the red gem on the bracer. I'm going to try to start saving so I can get one of the cosplay recommended 3D printers.



Shallow cuts in EVA foam that then get hit with a heat gun, open up to make for some really good detailing.


----------



## el-remmen

We'll see how my post in reaction to someone else's hobby horse response is in turn responded to, but I could not help myself.


----------



## Cadence

I apparently don't know what super-heroes are anymore.


----------



## Mannahnin

Ryujin said:


> The first shirt I ever made was in 3/8", 12 gauge aluminum rings. The thing weighed maybe 40 pounds. I think that it would have been SCA legal for combat. By comparison the 1/4". 16 gauge costume grade shirts that I make, like the one pictured, are in the 6-10 pound range. You don't really feel it any more than you do regular clothing. More than once I've wished that I had the money and a neutral gas welding chamber, so that I could make a full shirt out of titanium rings.



Yeah, the regular steel ones I wore, even the looser 4 in 1 weave rather than a proper more protective 6 in 1, were more like 25 lbs.  I can't remember the gauge.  

Whereas the pretty aluminum one I tried on was more like just wearing a thick cloth shirt, for weight.


----------



## Ryujin

Mannahnin said:


> Yeah, the regular steel ones I wore, even the looser 4 in 1 weave rather than a proper more protective 6 in 1, were more like 25 lbs.  I can't remember the gauge.
> 
> Whereas the pretty aluminum one I tried on was more like just wearing a thick cloth shirt, for weight.



I will say, however, that even the 40 pound welded stainless steel shirt that I made for myself doesn't feel anything like its actual weight, when worn and belted. I do get tired more quickly while wearing it and my movements seem to carry more authority, if you get what I mean, but it's not bad.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Shallow cuts in EVA foam that then get hit with a heat gun, open up to make for some really good detailing.



oh that's cool and good to know, right now I'm waiting to hear back from a local shop that offers 3D printing,first to find out if they can do it second will be the price. I'm also apparently the first person to ask about it, and I found them via googling 3D printing services lol. Next year I'm going to try to save up for one of my own.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> oh that's cool and good to know, right now I'm waiting to hear back from a local shop that offers 3D printing,first to find out if they can do it second will be the price. I'm also apparently the first person to ask about it, and I found them via googling 3D printing services lol. Next year I'm going to try to save up for one of my own.



I have a small resin based 3D printer and have messed around with it a bit, but haven't done a ton with it yet. Still working on figuring out the various resins. Regular water washable resin seems to be too brittle for making things that will see stress, but there are more expensive resins that have some flexibility after curing. Some people mix resins to save on the more expensive flexible ones. Filament based 3D printers are more finicky to make work, reliably, but the resulting parts can take more abuse. I made this a while back using a combination of 3 different models that people had posted online, along with several parts I either designed, or redesigned, for a better fit.


----------



## Cadence

I assume using a belittling but descriptive sounding name for the extreme ways some toppings could be put on, but describing it so it applies to the topping in general, would annoy people?  Cuz I'm working on some terms I think are pretty spot on...


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> I have a small resin based 3D printer and have messed around with it a bit, but haven't done a ton with it yet. Still working on figuring out the various resins. Regular water washable resin seems to be too brittle for making things that will see stress, but there are more expensive resins that have some flexibility after curing. Some people mix resins to save on the more expensive flexible ones. Filament based 3D printers are more finicky to make work, reliably, but the resulting parts can take more abuse. I made this a while back using a combination of 3 different models that people had posted online, along with several parts I either designed, or redesigned, for a better fit.
> 
> View attachment 260046



That's cool, all of the info I've been reading about filament 3D printing says it's just a matter of finding the right size printer for what you're looking for along with choosing the right filament.  I'm eying this one in particular https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083JB2YT...olid=3FALAAGC9LT6A&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

But I may go spring for this one https://www.amazon.com/ANYCUBIC-Lev...p-B09V2TPT7T/dp/B09V2TPT7T/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

EDIT: With all that said foam may very well be chapter and easier than dealing with a 3D printer, it's not like I'll be entering any contest for it.


----------



## prabe

Whatever setting you're nostalgia-jonesing for is going to be crap if/when it's published for 5e. Know that. Live that. Come to love that.


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> Whatever setting you're nostalgia-jonesing for is going to be crap if/when it's published for 5e. Know that. Live that. Come to love that.



_cries about grayhawk_


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> The first shirt I ever made was in 3/8", 12 gauge aluminum rings. The thing weighed maybe 40 pounds. I think that it would have been SCA legal for combat.




I have worn a chain hauberk in SCA heavy list.  I found it to be the stupidest armor I have ever worn.  My cheap@ss plastic plate stuff dealt with the impact _sooo much better_ than the chain and padding.


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> Whatever setting you're nostalgia-jonesing for is going to be crap if/when it's published for 5e. Know that. Live that. Come to love that.




If your nostalgia jones is for _specifics_, yes.


----------



## Galandris

Umbran said:


> If your nostalgia jones is for _specifics_, yes.




Strixhaven was the new Dark Sun, just updated. Rejoice, Dark Sun fans.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Galandris said:


> Strixhaven was the new Dark Sun, just updated. Rejoice, Dark Sun fans.



Just like Dark Sun, Strixhaven couldn't possibly be anything like Harry Potter because it's not literally a boarding school.

An argument made to me by somebody on this board once in 100% seriousness.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> That's cool, all of the info I've been reading about filament 3D printing says it's just a matter of finding the right size printer for what you're looking for along with choosing the right filament.  I'm eying this one in particular https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083JB2YT...olid=3FALAAGC9LT6A&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
> 
> But I may go spring for this one https://www.amazon.com/ANYCUBIC-Lev...p-B09V2TPT7T/dp/B09V2TPT7T/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
> 
> EDIT: With all that said foam may very well be chapter and easier than dealing with a 3D printer, it's not like I'll be entering any contest for it.



Anycubic is a well known name, so there should be a lot of online help available for those printers.


----------



## Hussar

I love it when a thread manages to outlast the cries of "straw man" and "misrepresenting my argument" and settle down into healthy discussion.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I have worn a chain hauberk in SCA heavy list.  I found it to be the stupidest armor I have ever worn.  My cheap@ss plastic plate stuff dealt with the impact _sooo much better_ than the chain and padding.



Chain is more about stopping you from getting stabbed. It doesn't do as much for impact as does plate so yes, even plastic plate would do more against impact.


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> Chain is more about stopping you from getting stabbed. It doesn't do as much for impact as does plate so yes, even plastic plate would do more against impact.




I know this from playing with weapon vs. armor type rules.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Chain is more about stopping you from getting stabbed. It doesn't do as much for impact as does plate so yes, even plastic plate would do more against impact.




I am aware, both in theory and, as noted, practice.  It was merely a commentary on using chain in SCA combat, in which there is no stabbing or slicing.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I am aware, both in theory and, as noted, practice.  It was merely a commentary on using chain in SCA combat, in which there is no stabbing or slicing.



I've got a little more than half a side of 10 ounce (4mm) thick veg tan leather and have been seriously considering making some cuir bouilli out of it but the stuff is tough enough to cut already, as it is. I originally bought it to make boot soles.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> I've got a little more than half a side of 10 ounce (4mm) thick veg tan leather and have been seriously considering making some cuir bouilli out of it but the stuff is tough enough to cut already, as it is.




I am not sure I understand.  If you mean "it is good enough for armor already", fine.

But if you mean it'd be too tough to cut after hardening... well, you are supposed to cut it _before_ hardening it.  There is a skill in cutting the piece so that it is the right size after shrinking.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I am not sure I understand.  If you mean "it is good enough for armor already", fine.
> 
> But if you mean it'd be too tough to cut after hardening... well, you are supposed to cut it _before_ hardening it.  There is a skill in cutting the piece so that it is the right size after shrinking.



I mean that it would be a lot of effort to cut it to shape, by hand, even before hardening. Extremely sharp blades take multiple passes and I have to stop frequently, due to the pain that it causes.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> I mean that it would be a lot of effort to cut it to shape, by hand, even before hardening. Extremely sharp blades take multiple passes and I have to stop frequently, due to the pain that it causes.




The armorers I knew had a term that's relevant: Power Tools


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> The armorers I knew had a term that's relevant: Power Tools



Seriously, it is very much like cutting wood 

_EDIT_ And do you have any idea what it smells like when you use something like a Dremel or power saw on leather?


----------



## billd91

I *think* that post is joking... but I really can't tell.


----------



## Malmuria

accidentally posted in a thread before seeing what it had become


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Malmuria

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 260183




Brilliant.  I often find myself walking while awkwardly holding my (used) machete, with no place to put it!  And I don't want to litter obviously.  So it just winds up in the trash, which seems wasteful


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 260183



I'll have to try that! It looks so much easier than feeding them down the garbage disposal.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Malmuria said:


> Brilliant.  I often find myself walking while awkwardly holding my (used) machete, with no place to put it!  And I don't want to litter obviously.  So it just winds up in the trash, which seems wasteful




 I had to toss an inexpensive but rather nice knife once because I was ten feet from walking into a courthouse and had forgotten I had it in my pocket...   
Now I'm wondering how long it'll be before somebody comes along and busts that thing open.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I had to get this off my chest, but couldn't post it in another thread. It's a huge rant about a controversial topic and I don't want to change the topic of this thread, so I'm going to spoiler it multiple times. 



Spoiler: Too long and ranty, don't read






Spoiler: Are you sure you want to read this?






Spoiler: Rant About Controversial Conversations on this Site from the Past 2ish Years



Over the past couple of years that I've been on this site, there have been quite a few discussions about the racism/sexism/other bigotry that's been in the hobby for decades. Many of these discussions have been around aspects of previous settings' lore and races, but some of them are about new additions to the game or other parts of 5e. A lot of this started after the Diversity and Dragons announcement and Tasha's Cauldron of Everything's "optional" changes to races in 5e (they were optional at the time, but quickly became the norm for all published 5e races after Tasha's). 

And in every single one of these discussions talking about the problematic content in the game _some of which_ *absolutely exists* and their existence is an *irrefutable fact* (I'm not saying that every claim that D&D is racist/sexist/bigoted is always right, I'm saying that there are times where it's undeniable that it is/was) . . . there have been people in each and every one of these discussions denying that the topic is a problem and that this specific aspect of D&D has absolutely nothing wrong with it and changing it is just because of internet outrage over nothing. 

This has happened every single time in every discussion on this topic. And it is always the same handful or two of people that come into the threads and spout "This is fine" over and over again endlessly until the threads get shut down and the topics stop being discussed. 

Every. Single. Time. Almost all of the same people (plus or minus a few that swing back and forth depending on the specifics of the topic). 

It happened with Diversity and Dragons. It happened with the Tasha's controversy. It happened with Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft. It happened with basically every discussion of how D&D approaches different races/species. It happened with the Curse of Strahd and Tomb of Annihilation errata, where people were professing that there was absolutely nothing wrong with having Vistani be full of Romani caricaturized stereotypes and that it's perfectly fine to call the jungle continent filled with black people in the Forgotten Realms a "savage" land. Its happened with the NuTSR discussions, who literally have Nazis working for them. It even happened with the Orcs of Thar discussion, which is perhaps the most egregiously and aggressively racist official D&D product I've ever heard of. 

The exact opposite happened with Radiant Citadel, where people heard that it was being made entirely by BIPOC and came out of the woodwork to spout that this was just an unnecessary PR move and that the book would be worse because of it (and the bright colors on the cover, let's not forget that tan suit of a scandal). The reverse happened with the Thaco the Clown discussion where the same people that were complaining other people were overly sensitive for noticing racism were losing their minds over a grumpy old clown being named after a near-universally mocked AD&D game mechanic. 

And now it just happened with the Hadozee, where WotC themselves have publicly apologized for letting the issue through and admitted that they made a mistake. And they did the fastest errata in the history of D&D 5e. 

Eventually, people get fed up with the BS. They realize that practically everyone that is demanding that the discussion not happen and that we ignore the parts of the game that appear to be problematic. They decide to take the word of people educated in this manner and ignore all of the people that are professing that there's absolutely nothing wrong and that we're just overly sensitive/"woke" idiots that think everything is racist/sexist/homophobic.

People learn that those that are always "skeptical" of racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia are actually just bigoted apologists that don't want people to point out their bigotry. They're just trolls, and it gets really, really frustrating when they're not banned fast enough and end up polluting what could otherwise be constructive discussions.


----------



## Malmuria

Spoiler: Level 1: a putrid ooze.  125 cp.  The stench from below warns you against venturing further






Spoiler: Level 2: skeletons attack! 80sp and a +1 dagger.  You would be wise to turn back






Spoiler: response to the above post






Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> And in every single one of these discussions talking about the problematic content in the game _some of which_ *absolutely exists* and their existence is an *irrefutable fact* (I'm not saying that every claim that D&D is racist/sexist/bigoted is always right, I'm saying that there are times where it's undeniable that it is/was) . . . there have been people in each and every one of these discussions denying that the topic is a problem and that this specific aspect of D&D has absolutely nothing wrong with it and changing it is just because of internet outrage over nothing.



As a person of color born in the 80s, this basically describes my experience just existing and experiencing race and racism, esp until age 18 or so.  A lot of, "nothing to see here, that was all in the past, let's just move on."  It's the default move, not just of outright racists, but also among the well intentioned, I think because listening becomes too uncomfortable.

I started a profile on this site and on reddit to try to engage people on these issues, because I grew frustrated with types of arguments people were making about the game.  I try to ask the question: "ok, dnd is problematic, but we also love dnd, so what do we do?"  A lot of my thoughts on mechanics actually stem from trying to answer this question; ironically, adopting an "old school" sensibility is one that allows you to hack it apart and put it back together, for free, without depending on either a profit-hungry corporation or racist grognards.  That said, to actually think about the hobby at that level in an online forum is basically impossible.  So probably wise to confine my thoughts to the pizza thread.


----------



## Hussar

I heart the above two posts.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 260183



Thank goodness they have the "Warning: Sharp Objects" sign.


----------



## trappedslider

Benjamin Olson said:


> I'm so glad they have the "caution
> 
> Thank goodness they have the "Warning: Sharp Objects" sign.



Safety first and btw it's in the UK


----------



## CleverNickName

In that other thread, I was asked "who should hire the sensitivity consultant? this one guy that I'm blaming for writing insensitive content? or this other guy that I'm blaming?" and the weird part of this line of questioning is: I'm pretty sure the question was intended to be rhetorical.  

Weird.


----------



## trappedslider

this spoiler and something I've been wanting to say



Spoiler



Just because the controversial creator is dead, doesn't mean others aren't profiting from his creation and thus his views. But do go on consuming his creations in any manner, just don't @me if I consume from a living controversial creator. At this point is there ANY fandom that it's okay to be part of? I mean so far you aren't allowed to be loud about being part of the Harry Potter Fandom, any one of the fandoms created by Whedon, or Dan schneider's shows. The Star Trek fandom is iffy and so is the Star Wars one.


----------



## Galandris

In the spirit of the above post.

This sounds a great premise for a lot of roleplaying fun. But don't discuss it on the Internet where thousands will congregate to tell you how horrible a person you are for playing in this campaign.


----------



## trappedslider

Galandris said:


> In the spirit of the above post.
> 
> This sounds a great premise for a lot of roleplaying fun. But don't discuss it on the Internet where thousands will congregate to tell you how horrible a person you are for playing in this campaign.



Mine or @CleverNickName post?


----------



## Galandris

It is weirdly appropriate to both, but was intented in the spirit of yours, @trappedslider


----------



## el-remmen

Some people act like an an adventure _premise _is the same as a railroad.


----------



## Cadence

1489 - and with out Gnomes or magic.






Other things in the 1400s include Arabic numerals being widely known in Europe, the Bastard Sword, Caravel, Mariner's Astrolabe, Ranseur and Rapier.  The Galleon, Harpsichord, and Violin were later.

The word pizza traces to 997.


----------



## Aeson

Cadence said:


> 1489 - and with out Gnomes or magic.
> 
> View attachment 260248
> 
> Other things in the 1400s include Arabic numerals being widely known in Europe, the Bastard Sword, Caravel, Mariner's Astrolabe, Ranseur and Rapier.  The Galleon, Harpsichord, and Violin were later.
> 
> The word pizza traces to 997.



What are random historical facts, Alex.


----------



## el-remmen

In response to previous posts in this format. . .



Spoiler: My Placade Facade



Where I mostly confine my posts to neutral gaming subjects. .



Spoiler: My Inner Self



But are _any _gaming subjects actually _neutral? 

Only go deeper if you dare. . ._



Spoiler: Never Out of My Mind






Malmuria said:


> As a person of color born in the 80s, this basically describes my experience just existing and experiencing race and racism, esp until age 18 or so. A lot of, "nothing to see here, that was all in the past, let's just move on." It's the default move, not just of outright racists, but also among the well intentioned, I think because listening becomes too uncomfortable.




As a person of color born in the early 70s and who started playing in the early 80s, race and gaming (both in terms of in-game products and attitudes/behavior at the table or among gamers more generally) has always been fraught and depressing.  
Especially the amount of gaslighting that happens. 
I think these boards have improved a lot on that front along with the culture at large's slight improvements - but I still feel trepidations about it. Heck, I remember multiple people on these boards saying things like "I didn't know Black people or other minorities even played D&D!"

That particular claim has long stuck with me because not only was I playing in groups of all kids of colors or mixed groups since nearly the very beginning of my time as a gamer (Heck, I was bullied out my first gaming group (where I was the only non-white kid) and have been careful how I recruit folks or which game I join ever since.) , but it so obviously establishes how some folks are incapable of separating their own isolated and segregated experience from the wider world. Thus, the beginning of their awareness of anything aside from token representation must also be to them the beginning of any people unlike them being in the hobby. Add that to how tied up their identity is with gaming, and they immediately jump to defensiveness and dismissiveness.

And I am not even bringing up what Malmuria mentioned up above, how people want to keep saying it is in the past, but folks have been doing that on these boards for 20+ years!

Once at GEN CON I was gaming at a table with a guy wearing a "This is America speak English!" t-shirt while I happened to be wearing a shirt with a stylized phone keypad surrounded by the phrase "Para Español Oprima El Numero Dos." I shamed him into leaving the table by my mere presence.

And the real wild thing is that I am a DM and world-builder who has plenty of references to slavery and in-world racism in his games, I am just careful in how that stuff is presented and played out, and make sure that is it always clear that these things are evil and wrong and meant to be fought against - but at the same time, understanding that not everyone wants to do that so different campaigns have different themes and degree of focus on those themes based on the players' concerns and sensitivities.


----------



## Aeson

I always thought that gaming was inclusive. So many of us are/were outcasts and outsiders. We should know what it's like. I've gamed with people of color and different sexual orientations. All were welcome at my table or any table I sat at. The only exception was anyone that was an a$$hole. So, hearing that some are so closed minded and bigoted saddens me.

I decided a long time ago if I wanted people to accept me for who I am, I have to be able to accept them for who they are. I try not to judge, but I fall short sometimes. I learn and try to do better.


----------



## Aeson

el-remmen said:


> Some people act like an an adventure _premise _is the same as a railroad.



What if the adventure takes place on a train? The premise is a railroad.


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> What if the adventure takes place on a train? The premise is a railroad.


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> View attachment 260267



This surprises me not.


----------



## Galandris

el-remmen said:


> In response to previous posts in this format. . .




I've often said that playing people from a fantasy race is hard, because it's difficult to even imagine how would an immortal race of half-birds would think. Reading this board, I am starting to think that real-life people from a continent away are as removed as me than immortal half-birds, given the remarks you've heard. The same goes the other way round, of course.


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> View attachment 260267




IIRC, the campaign _was_ a railroad as well.


----------



## dragoner

el-remmen said:


> Some people act like an an adventure _premise _is the same as a railroad.



Holy sandboxers, Batman!


----------



## payn

Aeson said:


> I always thought that gaming was inclusive. So many of us are/were outcasts and outsiders. We should know what it's like. I've gamed with people of color and different sexual orientations. All were welcome at my table or any table I sat at. The only exception was anyone that was an a$$hole. So, hearing that some are so closed minded and bigoted saddens me.
> 
> I decided a long time ago if I wanted people to accept me for who I am, I have to be able to accept them for who they are. I try not to judge, but I fall short sometimes. I learn and try to do better.



Depends. I remember high school being very clique-ish. I was a bit of a chameleon in that I liked to try and run with a lot of crowds. The one crowd that never let me in was the gamers. I think they viewed everyone else as outsiders and didnt trust them or were bitter about some of the crap folks gave them.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Depends. I remember high school being very clique-ish. I was a bit of a chameleon in that I liked to try and run with a lot of crowds. The one crowd that never let me in was the gamers. I think they viewed everyone else as outsiders and didnt trust them or were bitter about some of the crap folks gave them.



In my high school days it was always a worry that someone from another clique being friendly to you, as a nerdy gamer, was just a setup for some cruel joke. And, far more often than not, it was.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Depends. I remember high school being very clique-ish. I was a bit of a chameleon in that I liked to try and run with a lot of crowds. The one crowd that never let me in was the gamers. I think they viewed everyone else as outsiders and didnt trust them or were bitter about some of the crap folks gave them.



We had cliques at my relatively small high school (320-ish students) but there were overlaps. Some of us gamers overlapped the track clique, some art, many band, and one of us overlapped with the kids who lived by Lake Wisconsin and partied a lot. So I think we benefited from not being thought of as being just one identity. From my observation of my kids’ experience in a high school 6x the size of mine, it seems harder to break out of the one clique identity in a big school. Maybe because a smaller proportion of their peers know them via more than one grouping?


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Depends. I remember high school being very clique-ish. I was a bit of a chameleon in that I liked to try and run with a lot of crowds. The one crowd that never let me in was the gamers. I think they viewed everyone else as outsiders and didnt trust them or were bitter about some of the crap folks gave them.



I certainly remember school being cliquish, but in my case the nerds were the least cliquish simply because we knew well the pain caused by social exclusion, so we tended not to do it. The social dominance hierarchy crap still went on, but even that was nowhere near so fierce as in the cliques.

Now, distrust of popular kids who occasionally wanted to join us--I did see that. That wasn't ostracism, though; it was straight up fear.


----------



## dragoner

I was a total outcast, poor, nerdy, and living in Texas.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> I certainly remember school being cliquish, but in my case the nerds were the least cliquish simply because we knew well the pain caused by social exclusion, so we tended not to do it. The social dominance hierarchy crap still went on, but even that was nowhere near so fierce as in the cliques.
> 
> Now, distrust of popular kids who occasionally wanted to join us--I did see that. That wasn't ostracism, though; it was straight up fear.



It's gotten better as an adult, but yeah teens definitely formed camps and did not like crossing the lines.


----------



## CleverNickName

I'm in this comic.  That's me, right there in Panel 2.






For me, high school was a hellscape of cliques, bullies, and social anxiety.  The stereotype says that "the Jocks" were supposed to be the bad actors in high school, but in my experience, the absolute worst were "the Nerds."  And sadly, I noticed at our 30-year reunion that most of my friends haven't really changed.


----------



## dragoner

I never went back to Texas, though I found one of the jocks later became chief of police, fitting I thought. I was a little punk rocker on a motorcycle, kind of sealed the deal with me being an outcast.


----------



## Ryujin

dragoner said:


> I never went back to Texas, though I found one of the jocks later became chief of police, fitting I thought. I was a little punk rocker on a motorcycle, kind of sealed the deal with me being an outcast.



I was the poor kid of divorced parents, in suburbia, before it became a stereotype. I did most of my clothes shopping at army surplus stores. For several years this earned me a great deal of derision, from the "cool kids." Guess what became trendy in my last two years, in high school.


----------



## dragoner

Ryujin said:


> I was the poor kid of divorced parents, in suburbia, before it became a stereotype. I did most of my clothes shopping at army surplus stores. For several years this earned me a great deal of derision, from the "cool kids." Guess what became trendy in my last two years, in high school.



Similar sort of deal, I bought an old honda motorcycle from a neighbor, and they threw in an old leather jacket, this was for work after school, washing dishes.


----------



## Gradine

"Look, I'm not calling people liars, I just want to be able to _ imply_ that they're lying without being called dismissive, is that too much to ask?"


----------



## Jacob Lewis

The "largest bundle" is $25. For 28 items. A lot of those products cost more than that by themselves. You can have them for less than $1 each.

But please tell us more about your woes and the greediness of a corporation trying to get you to donate more for charity!


----------



## Aeson

While I do wish Humble Bundle donated more for my purchase, at least they're doing something.


----------



## Bagpuss

I don't mind the brown dwarves, elves and hobbits in the Rings of Power, but does it have to be so obviously tokenism? There is one black dwarf, one black elf, one black hobbit, but whenever you see the wide shots of the community they come from it's as white as snow. I loved Sophia Nomvete as Disa and her interaction with Durin. Lenny Henry is great in dramas even if I grew up knowing him as a comedian.  But seriously, if you want to make it believable the community as a whole could do with being a bit more diverse, not just your plot relevant characters. I guess it depends on the diversity of the pool of extras you can call on. You don't mind spending extra to fly your main cast out to wherever you're filming but the extras you source locally.

I think the most jarring shot was the elves returning across the sea. Look at the lovely balanced symmetry of the shot, art director must be so pleased. Oops we have no PoC, quick you go stand there you look a little tanned.

Also when did the male elves start cutting their hair short? Did they not have a wig budget after spending on everything else.


----------



## el-remmen




----------



## Galandris

Bagpuss said:


> I don't mind the brown dwarves, elves and hobbits in the Rings of Power, but does it have to be so obviously tokenism? There is one black dwarf, one black elf, one black hobbit,




Do they recognize it in the dialogue? Or just have a token actor with no reference to it whatsoever?



Bagpuss said:


> I guess it depends on the diversity of the pool of extras you can call on. You don't mind spending extra to fly your main cast out to wherever you're filming but the extras you source locally.




Maybe it is because it was filmed in NZ? A quick Google search shows that, according to University of New Zealand :
"In 2018, the New Zealand population included:


70.2% European (3,297,860 people)
16.5% Māori (775,840 people)
15.1% Asian (707,600 people)
8.1% Pacific peoples (381,640 people)
1.5% Middle Eastern, Latin American and African (MELAA) (70,330 people). "
So, the big complaint would be the lack of hiring of Maori rather than African-Americans. It would be interesting to know the local reactions...




Bagpuss said:


> I think the most jarring shot was the elves returning across the sea. Look at the lovely balanced symmetry of the shot, art director must be so pleased. Oops we have no PoC, quick you go stand there you look a little tanned.




Honestly, I fail to see whom you're refering to. They look all white to me.



Bagpuss said:


> Also when did the male elves start cutting their hair short?




Yes, it's quite strange. It's not the hardest special effect to include.


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> Honestly, I fail to see whom you're refering to. They look all white to me.



I think the reference is to the one person who is clearly out of symmetry with everyone else and who doesn't look quite as pasty as the rest of the cast.


----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


>



The best pizza topping is the Oxford comma!


----------



## el-remmen

J.Quondam said:


> The best pizza topping is the Oxford comma!




I prefer the em dash.


----------



## payn

Another conversation I have to suffer folks telling me I'm dumb for liking something, and that my fun is bad, and that I'm not actually having fun like I say I do. I wish folks would participate in the spirit of a thread more often. Save your opinions, and especially axe  grindings, for threads that invite them please.


----------



## Bagpuss

Galandris said:


> Do they recognize it in the dialogue? Or just have a token actor with no reference to it whatsoever?




No, but I don't think they needed to, it wouldn't be relevant to the plot.



Galandris said:


> Maybe it is because it was filmed in NZ?



I suspect so.



Galandris said:


> So, the big complaint would be the lack of hiring of Maori rather than African-Americans. It would be interesting to know the local reactions...



Not sure if there are any African-American's in the cast. Not seen any in the first two episodes at least. Having done a quick check of the cast list I don't think there are.


----------



## el-remmen

I'm not gonna post in that thread. I'm not. Not gonna. Nope. No. No. Nope. I'm not!


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> I'm not gonna post in that thread. I'm not. Not gonna. Nope. No. No. Nope. I'm not!




 Do eet!


----------



## Gradine

el-remmen said:


>



This is the opposite of the truth though


----------



## CleverNickName

How much longer do ya'll think this current wave of 5E negativity and hyper-criticism will last?  I appreciate a good speculation thread or two, but all of the constant bickering, complaining, and thread-crapping is wearing on my nerves.  Lately, ENWorld isn't very much fun for a 5th Edition fan.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> How much longer do ya'll think this current wave of 5E negativity and hyper-criticism will last?  I appreciate a good speculation thread or two, but all of the constant bickering and thread-crapping is wearing on my nerves.  Lately, ENWorld isn't very much fun for a 5th Edition fan.



Probably not until after the 2024 release.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Probably not until after the 2024 release.



(sigh)  Yeah, that tracks.


----------



## CleverNickName

I'm not a moderator, but if I were, I would make extensive use of these during adjudication. 


Spoiler: Football Moderation


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I'm not a moderator, but if I were, I would make extensive use of these during adjudication.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Football Moderation
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 260470
> 
> View attachment 260471
> 
> View attachment 260472
> 
> View attachment 260473
> 
> View attachment 260474
> 
> View attachment 260475
> 
> View attachment 260476
> 
> View attachment 260477
> 
> View attachment 260478
> 
> View attachment 260479
> 
> View attachment 260480



As the season is about to begin, I do miss Eddie Hocules.


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> How much longer do ya'll think this current wave of 5E negativity and hyper-criticism will last?  I appreciate a good speculation thread or two, but all of the constant bickering, complaining, and thread-crapping is wearing on my nerves.  Lately, ENWorld isn't very much fun for a 5th Edition fan.



To say nothing of some usual suspects turning every thread into a discussion about the usual topics.


----------



## el-remmen

OP: I am planning on doing X in my D&D game. Any suggestions?

Eventual "Helpful" Response: Don't do X.


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> To say nothing of some usual suspects turning every thread into a discussion about the usual topics.



"But what about this _even older _edition?!"
"Reddit told me this was broken, and I demand they fix it!"
"Everybody knows this is terrible!  Why doesn't anyone notice?"


----------



## el-remmen

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 259605
> but they were, all of them, deceived, for another ring was made







There ya go.


----------



## South by Southwest

Arguing about nothing or arguing about Nothing: which one gets empty first?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Here's a great topic for a poll... How many people on this site prefer to actually _play _D&D and how many prefer to just argue about it?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mad_Jack said:


> Here's a great topic for a poll... How many people on this site prefer to play D&D and how many prefer to just argue about it?



Hey bub, I want to argue about your poll about arguing about D&D.


----------



## Mad_Jack

eyeheartawk said:


> Hey bub, I want to argue about your poll about arguing about D&D.




 Well, then clearly you're wrong and you're a terrible person...


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, then clearly you're wrong



No!



Mad_Jack said:


> and you're a terrible person...



Yes.


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> I know this from playing with weapon vs. armor type rules.




People think this is a joke. . . but I really did - even modified them into 3E! (though not as complex as the 1E version, just an even more simplified adaptation of the already simplified 2E optional version).


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> People think this is a joke. . . but I really did - even modified them into 3E! (though not as complex as the 1E version, just an even more simplified adaptation of the already simplified 2E optional version).



For 1e, for a while, I tried using weapon mods as both hit and damage modifiers, but I ran into two issues. The first was that the number of adds just became too cumbersome. The second was that most monsters didn't have anything more than an AC. No DEX mod. No armour type. So it was only really useful against character races, for the most part.


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> For 1e, for a while, I tried using weapon mods as both hit and damage modifiers, but I ran into two issues. The first was that the number of adds just became too cumbersome. The second was that most monsters didn't have anything more than an AC. No DEX mod. No armour type. So it was only really useful against character races, for the most part.




I think 3e got it right with vulnerability and resistance. A few monsters like skeletons with arrow resistance and  Hammer vulnerability were enough to make a noticeable if seldom impact.


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> How much longer do ya'll think this current wave of 5E negativity and hyper-criticism will last?  I appreciate a good speculation thread or two, but all of the constant bickering, complaining, and thread-crapping is wearing on my nerves.  Lately, ENWorld isn't very much fun for a 5th Edition fan.



On twitter I see the petty criticism about this or that mechanic, plus disingenuous racism from grognard-types.  But then I also see a lot of toxic positivity and fandom.  The result being that genuine criticism gets drowned out.


----------



## Ryujin

Malmuria said:


> On twitter I see the petty criticism about this or that mechanic, plus disingenuous racism from grognard-types.  But then I also see a lot of toxic positivity and fandom.  The result being that genuine criticism gets drowned out.



Funny, isn't it? When I didn't like a specific mechanic, I didn't use that mechanic. Such a simple solution and it works for all editions.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Funny, isn't it? When I didn't like a specific mechanic, I didn't use that mechanic. Such a simple solution and it works for all editions.



Simple, yes. How *easy* it is seems as though it'll depend on how central the mechanic is to the game. Though if you dislike the mechanic enough to skip a whole edition (or game) then I guess you're still skipping the mechanic ...


----------



## CleverNickName

Guy 1:  "The rules are terrible!  I demand they be changed!"
Guy 2:  "You can change the rules if you don't like them.  Says so in the book."
Guy 1:  "But if I do, how will everyone know that I don't like the rules?"

has the same energy as:

Picard:  "Tea.  Earl Grey, vegan."
Riker:  "You could just order it without milk, Captain."
Picard:  "But if I do, how will everyone know I'm vegan?"


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Simple, yes. How *easy* it is seems as though it'll depend on how central the mechanic is to the game. Though if you dislike the mechanic enough to skip a whole edition (or game) then I guess you're still skipping the mechanic ...



I suppose it all depends on how much trouble you're willing to go through. I greatly disliked the task resolution mechanic in 4e, but liked pretty much everything else, so I tossed it. To work around it I did a variety of things, from planning out alternate role play resolutions in detail, to just winging it. Given that I was using canned adventures, that made it a pretty central mechanic.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Guy 1:  "The rules are terrible!  I demand they be changed!"
> Guy 2:  "You can change the rules if you don't like them.  Says so in the book."
> Guy 1:  "But if I do, how will everyone know that I don't like the rules?"
> 
> has the same energy as:
> 
> Picard:  "Tea.  Earl Grey, vegan."
> Riker:  "You could just order it without milk, Captain."
> Picard:  "But if I do, how will everyone know I'm vegan?"



Gotta keep those Vegan Powers charged up!


----------



## South by Southwest

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, then clearly you're wrong and you're a terrible person...



"Objectively wrong" and "objectively terrible:" that's a vital qualifier right there.


----------



## South by Southwest

Malmuria said:


> On twitter I see the petty criticism about this or that mechanic, plus disingenuous racism from grognard-types.  But then I also see a lot of toxic positivity and fandom.  *The result being that genuine criticism gets drowned out.*



That's because you're on _Twitter_.


----------



## CleverNickName

Mad_Jack said:


> Here's a great topic for a poll... How many people on this site prefer to actually _play _D&D and how many prefer to just argue about it?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

CleverNickName said:


> How much longer do ya'll think this current wave of 5E negativity and hyper-criticism will last?  I appreciate a good speculation thread or two, but all of the constant bickering, complaining, and thread-crapping is wearing on my nerves.  Lately, ENWorld isn't very much fun for a 5th Edition fan.



Dude. It hasn't been very much fun to be a fan of anything, anywhere lately.


----------



## CleverNickName

Jacob Lewis said:


> Dude. It hasn't been very much fun to be a fan of anything, anywhere lately.



I hate how right you are about this.






At least I can choose my level of involvement.  If things end up going the way I think they're going, I can always just wander off and do something else for the next 18 months or so.  This won't be the first edition war I've seen (heck, it won't even be the _third_.)


----------



## Jacob Lewis

CleverNickName said:


> I hate how right you are about this.



Me too. When things get like this, I try to stay away and just focus on doing whatever makes me happy.


----------



## Hussar

Jacob Lewis said:


> Dude. It hasn't been very much fun to be a fan of anything, anywhere lately.




Now ain’t that the truth. There’s all sorts of stuff coming out right now that twelve year old me would have set himself in fire in excitement that 50 year old me is just passing onbecause I just can’t stand the conversation surrounding it.


----------



## Cadence

So, if I understand correctly eggheaded doesn't necessarily have a negative connotation, but pedantic does.


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> So, if I understand correctly eggheaded doesn't necessarily have a negative connotation, but pedantic does.



They both have negative connotations.


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> They both have negative connotations.



Looking around it seemed that pedantic was expressly negative while egghead wasn't necessarily.  I need to ponder connotation and if that's what I really meant I guess.


----------



## RealAlHazred

The hidden cost of COVID that they don't talk about, is how nobody does anything that you used to do while you are out. So when you get back, you now have things 1-2 weeks late. So, these _are _your monkeys, and this _is _your circus, but nobody's cleaned the cage in 2 weeks.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Looking around it seemed that pedantic was expressly negative while egghead wasn't necessarily.  I need to ponder connotation and if that's what I really meant I guess.




As we repeatedly see, connotation is the word that applies when _you _use a word that I don't like.
When _I_ use a word that you don't like, you need to suck it up and deal with the underlying argument.


Zeno: The way you run games is very much "Yo mama wears combat boots." You know- YMWCB.

Achilles: What? How dare you! Why would you insult my playing style ... and my mom?

Zeno: Get over it, Achilles. Sheesh. Why are you concentrating on how much your mother sucks, when we should be discussing the real issue of how much your gaming sucks?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

If you're the type of person who gets into so many arguments with so many people that you end up on a lot of perma-ignore lists ... if you suddenly show up in the same threads with approximately the same name, getting into the exact same arguments, you will just repeat the cycle. 

Something something tiger can't change its stripes, I guess.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> As we repeatedly see, connotation is the word that applies when _you _use a word that I don't like.
> When _I_ use a word that you don't like, you need to suck it up and deal with the underlying argument.



Truly, gamers have elevated negging into a fine art.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> If you're the type of person who gets into so many arguments with so many people that you end up on a lot of perma-ignore lists ... if you suddenly show up in the same threads with approximately the same name, getting into the exact same arguments, you will just repeat the cycle.
> 
> Something something tiger can't change its stripes, I guess.



My brain has automated its own ignore list. As soon as I see some postings my eyes just glaze over and refuse to let me read.


----------



## eyeheartawk

RealAlHazred said:


> Truly, gamers have elevated negging into a fine art.



As the first D&D themed pick up artist, I can attest that using this time-proven technique I have a 100% failure rate. 

I will report when this changes. 

(It will never change)

((I've spent all of my family's money on peacocking hats, please help))

(((No, I will not stop buying hats)))


----------



## Bagpuss

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Something something tiger can't change its stripes, I guess.




Isn't it leopard and spots? Never heard tiger and stripes before but I guess it still works or is this one of those regional things?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bagpuss said:


> Isn't it leopard and spots? Never heard tiger and stripes before but I guess it still works or is this one of those regional things?




Don't believe BigLeopard(tm) propaganda. 

That whole "can't change its spots" canard .... it's why 99% of murders committed by leopards go unsolved.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> My brain has automated its own ignore list. As soon as I see some postings my eyes just glaze over and refuse to let me read.



That's a skill that I need to develop. Not too long ago I responded to a post and then, when I received notification of a reply said to myself, "Why did you do that?!"


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> My brain has automated its own ignore list. As soon as I see some postings my eyes just glaze over and refuse to let me read.



Same here.  I rarely use this site's Ignore feature, but I ignore lots of people. 

This thread helps, too.  Sometimes I'll see a certain name and think "I'd like to respond, but I don't want to hear them rant about That again." So I'll come here and vent-post about pineapple as a pizza topping.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Gotta keep those Vegan Powers charged up!










Also...








Cadence said:


> Looking around it seemed that pedantic was expressly negative while egghead wasn't necessarily.  I need to ponder connotation and if that's what I really meant I guess.




 Egghead is a word much like nerd or geek that has either been voluntarily reclaimed as a positive descriptor or at least become such a generic part of the popular lexicon that it's lost 99.9% of its power to offend anyone. It's come to be popularly defined as shorthand for people who are highly intelligent and particularly knowledgeable in some area of science, engineering or mathematics.

Pedantic also implies some level of knowledgeability, but with the implication of being overly concerned with the minutiae of the subject matter on which they consider themselves to be an expert, and generally unable to be succinct in expressing themselves on that topic.

 Anyone in the first ten pages of a thread on here who busts out an insightful comparison of how a particular rule was implemented across several editions could be considered a D&D egghead. Anyone who's still disputing minor points of said comparison fifteen pages later is being pedantic.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> Anyone in the first ten pages of a thread on here who busts out an insightful comparison of how a particular rule was implemented across several editions could be considered a D&D egghead. Anyone who's still disputing minor points of said comparison fifteen pages later is being pedantic.




_Pedantry, in the defense of knowledge, is no vice!_
-Paris Hilton, hectoringly.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> As we repeatedly see, connotation is the word that applies when _you _use a word that I don't like.
> When _I_ use a word that you don't like, you need to suck it up and deal with the underlying argument.



"How can you be insulted when I've told you repeatedly this insulting phrase isn't an insult?"


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> "How can you be insulted when I've told you repeatedly this insulting phrase isn't an insult?"



"I mean... it's not directed _AT_ you, just everyone who is exactly _LIKE_ you."


----------



## Gradine

prabe said:


> "How can you be insulted when I've told you repeatedly this insulting phrase isn't an insult?"



That this happens unironically in so, so many venues is one of the most frustrating things in my life.


----------



## CleverNickName

"Look.  All I want is to yell offensive stuff about marginalized people.  Why does the Internet make this so hard for me?"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> "Look.  All I want is to yell offensive stuff about marginalized people.  *Why does the Internet make this so hard for me?"*




If the internet is making it hard for you ... then you're probably going to a website that isn't EnWorld.

Or maybe you are at EnWorld. Everyone has a different kink, I guess. Apparently some people are getting something out of starting "Orcs are evil," threads? 

..._not that there's anything wrong with that._


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> That this happens unironically in so, so many venues is one of the most frustrating things in my life.



I ... wasn't intending to bring up things hurtful for you. Refusing to listen when someone tells you something is insulting--or hurtful, or worse--is ... refusing to treat someone well. Doing so repeatedly does not speak well of the person refusing.


----------



## Gradine

prabe said:


> I ... wasn't intending to bring up things hurtful for you. Refusing to listen when someone tells you something is insulting--or hurtful, or worse--is ... refusing to treat someone well. Doing so repeatedly does not speak well of the person refusing.



Oh no, you're absolutely fine! It's super obnoxious when people do this, especially in threads that I create that are primarily about complaining about how people do this and end up getting their way anyway


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Apparently some people are getting something out of starting "Orcs are evil," threads?
> 
> ..._not that there's anything wrong with that._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>




I mean, I do my best not to kink shame!

Which makes me think ... if you're*, you know, really into getting shamed .... sucks to be you. 

I suppose you could always just eat pineapple pizza in public?

_*The universal you, not you, you._


----------



## Cadence

Apropos of nothing on EN except a review thread, genealogy searching just turned up that my GGGGG grandmother was a Sandman  (Anna Catharina Sandman from Lohne, Vechta, Germany).  I also didn't know that the name "Sandman" in regards to sleep was from German folklore.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean, I do my best not to kink shame!
> 
> Which makes me think ... if you're*, you know, really into getting shamed .... sucks to be you.
> 
> I suppose you could always just eat pineapple pizza in public?
> 
> _*The universal you, not you, you._



Well ... That kinda depends on whether your kink is being shamed, or being *kinkshamed*, doesn't it?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Apropos of nothing on EN except a review thread, genealogy searching just turned up that my GGGGG grandmother was a Sandman  (Anna Catharina Sandman from Lohne, Vechta, Germany).  I also didn't know that the name "Sandman" in regards to sleep was from German folklore.




Isn't the preferred term ... Sand_people_?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Well ... That kinda depends on whether your kink is being shamed, or being *kinkshamed*, doesn't it?




_little did prabe know that 83% of EnWorld totally got off to being pedant-shamed ... and that soon people would be making purposeful errors and at'ing prabe .... _


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _little did prabe know that 83% of EnWorld totally got off to being pedant-shamed ... and that soon people would be making purposeful errors and at'ing prabe .... _


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Spoiler



"I don't agree that these people with different personalities, skills, language, and appearance actually have free will and are _people_, and I want to use them as always-killable mooks in my games. I don't think they're people, so they should be always killable. Also, it's just not the same when they get to choose to be evil (like bandits, cultists, or politicians) or are robots/undead/demons; them being alive _people_ that are always evil makes it so much more satisfying to kill them."

How . . . how does someone not see the problem with that? Even if they're not intending to be malicious, seriously, how do they not see how uncomfortable that is? Even if it's justifiable in a fantasy setting . . . that doesn't mean it's a good solution, especially when there are other, just as good solutions to the Mook Problem™.


----------



## prabe

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> "I don't agree that these people with different personalities, skills, language, and appearance actually have free will and are _people_, and I want to use them as always-killable mooks in my games. I don't think they're people, so they should be always killable. Also, it's just not the same when they get to choose to be evil (like bandits, cultists, or politicians) or are robots/undead/demons; them being alive _people_ that are always evil makes it so much more satisfying to kill them."
> 
> How . . . how does someone not see the problem with that? Even if they're not intending to be malicious, seriously, how do they not see how uncomfortable that is? Even if it's justifiable in a fantasy setting . . . that doesn't mean it's a good solution, especially when there are other, just as good solutions to the Mook Problem™.





Spoiler



The easy solution, of course, is to say *these* people are evil, or corrupted, or otherwise killable without moral penalty or qualm, but *those* people are not. It's ... kinda distressing, really, how many people prefer not to take the easy solution.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

So I, took a lot of time off around the Labor day holiday. And I came back, and I see all the arguing, and the people booted over the last week, and I realize I have something to say.



Spoiler



Yeah, this needs to be in spoilers. Because I need to get this off my chest.



Spoiler: Really, don't open



Between the threads getting locked, and the contentious topics, I need to put in my two cents ....



Spoiler: You've been warned



For real, I need to lay into this. It's time to let all y'all know what I really think. 



Spoiler: Abandon all hope ye who open this. NO MORE WARNINGS!


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Mad_Jack

Gradine said:


>




 I'm pretty sure this is what writers for WotC see in their dreams every night when publishing a new product.


----------



## Asisreo

Woah, a faucet. I realized I should have used this a long time ago, very shameful that I didn't. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go ahead and scrub my hands.


----------



## prabe

Well, _that_ wasn't something I would have expected.


----------



## Malmuria

South by Southwest said:


> That's because you're on _Twitter_.



Speaking of, I'm also seeing a bunch of indie creators, even successful ones, on the verge of quitting or at least contemplating it.  So maybe a rising tide (5e) lifts all boats, but only for a little while, and only in waves.


----------



## el-remmen

My personal feeling (in all fields) is that too many people are blindly encouraged to continue when more people need to just give up.


----------



## Aeson

Cadence said:


> Apropos of nothing on EN except a review thread, genealogy searching just turned up that my GGGGG grandmother was a Sandman  (Anna Catharina Sandman from Lohne, Vechta, Germany).  I also didn't know that the name "Sandman" in regards to sleep was from German folklore.



I'll say this; that story put me to sleep.  Maybe she is a Sandman.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> My personal feeling (in all fields) is that too many people are blindly encouraged to continue when more people need to just give up.




Mom! I didn't know you were on EnWorld! 

I swear, I feel like I'm back at the pool, learning to swim in the deep end.


----------



## billd91

Aeson said:


> I'll say this; that story put me to sleep.  Maybe she is a Sandman.



If you're over 29, she might do more than just put you to "sleep". I'd run if I were you...


----------



## Aeson

billd91 said:


> If you're over 29, she might do more than just put you to "sleep". I'd run if I were you...



I'm too fat and lazy to run.


----------



## Ryujin

Funny thing. After falling down a bit of a rabbit hole, after mentioning high school here, I went searching for information on an old D&D module that was written by someone in my high school gaming club. It was called "Catapult Run." While searching for it I noticed one of the other names on the cover, which happened to be the same as someone who sold me several motorcycles and became a friend, maybe a decade after high school. Turns out that he actually did the cover art for the second edition of the module and it wasn't just coincidence. And now I've found out 40 years after the classmate first started to work on the module


----------



## Malmuria

el-remmen said:


> My personal feeling (in all fields) is that too many people are blindly encouraged to continue when more people need to just give up.


----------



## trappedslider

Nerds/geeks can ruin anything for everyone else.


----------



## South by Southwest

trappedslider said:


> Nerds/geeks can ruin anything for everyone else.



Boy, howdy!


----------



## dragoner

el-remmen said:


> My personal feeling (in all fields) is that too many people are blindly encouraged to continue when more people need to just give up.



Meanwhile, back at the bat cave ...


----------



## eyeheartawk

Malmuria said:


> View attachment 260695



_nods in comrade_


----------



## CleverNickName

Them:  They need to make the 5E Fighter more powerful and interesting!
Me:  (points to the Monk)
Me:  (points to the Barbarian)
Me:  (points to the Paladin)
Me:  (points to the Ranger)
Them: No not like that.
Me:  (points to a completely different edition of the game)
Them:  Yes! Perfect!


----------



## trappedslider

South by Southwest said:


> Boy, howdy!



They also make they also make the worst fans


----------



## Hussar

To @Snarf Zagyg. 

I was wrong. Took me a while to see it but I got there. 

Pointing to an entire pizza restaurant chain and saying it’s bad instead of the problem being that chef, that oven and me eating at that one restaurant is bad. 

I may be slow but I get there if you give me enough time.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> I was wrong..




I’m confused. I thought that combination of words was illegal …. _on the internet.  _


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I’m confused. I thought that combination of words was illegal …. _on the internet.  _



No, not illegal, just contra-indicated. It's basically like chum in the water.


----------



## CleverNickName

Me:  "Woops, sorry, that was my bad.  I'll do better next time I promise."
My friends:  "No worries mate, we all screw up from time to time.  Thanks for owning it."
The Internet:  "YOU CALL THAT AN APOLOGY?!  HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE!  HERE'S A LIST OF ALL THE THINGS YOU NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO EARN MY RESPECT AGAIN, YOU FOOL, YOU UTTER RUBE, YOU COMPLETE IMBECILE!!!"


----------



## Hussar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I’m confused. I thought that combination of words was illegal …. _on the internet. _




Nope I might take an embarrassingly long time to get there, but I’ll generally own up when I’m wrong. 

If people would now just admit to the superiority of pineapple pizza with bbq sauce, peace in our time could be achieved.


----------



## Cadence

"I don't see what the problem is saying your favorite pizzeria serves cafeteria style slices.  I mean, we all liked that style when we were in school!"


----------



## CleverNickName

The trouble is, when you say "This pizzeria has Hawaiian-style pizza on the menu," some people will hear you say "That pizzeria _only_ serves Hawaiian-style pizza."  And others still will only hear "That pizzeria will _force you_ to eat their Hawaiian-style pizza."

You don't have to eat everything on the menu, folks.  In fact, it sounds miserable to even try.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> The trouble is, when you say "This pizzeria has Hawaiian-style pizza on the menu," some people will hear "That pizzeria only serves Hawaiian-style pizza."  And others still will hear "That pizzeria will force you to eat Hawaiian-style pizza."




"That pizzeria is very pinappley on purpose and you have to work hard not to have it on your slice."  doesn't feel that open to interpretation?


----------



## Aeson

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I’m confused. I thought that combination of words was illegal …. _on the internet.  _



No, it's saying _you're right._ People love to argue and will argue any point.


----------



## Cadence

"Let me tell you of our governing structure that solves all interpersonal conflict, allows for fully collaborative frictionless interaction, and brings world peace.  If only it would catch on among the ignorant masses!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "Let me tell you of our governing structure that solves all interpersonal conflict, allows for fully collaborative frictionless interaction, and brings world peace.  If only it would catch on among the ignorant masses!"




I know! I am still mystified that, "Snarf is the boss of you" has yet to catch on as a global of governance.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I know! I am still mystified that, "Snarf is the boss of you" has yet to catch on as a global of governance.



All systems of authority break down when faced with the same intractable problem:

That time at the buffet when they bring out the crab legs. 

Chaos.

Anarchy.

Bedlam. 

Abandon all hope ye who enter here.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Zeno: Pineapple pizza is terrible, and you're a bad person for enjoying it.

Achilles: Wait, what? I don't get it. I like pineapple pizza!

Zeno: Yeah, well I tried pineapple pizza once and dough wasn't cooked, and they used ketchup instead of marinara, and worst of all ... _it was Chicago Deep Dish_.

Achilles: Look, maybe you had a bad experience with that particular pizza ... I mean, I'm not even sure that you can call a casserole a pizza, but that has nothing to do with the topping! What about you- you only eat pizza topped with anchovies. 

Zeno: That's right! And even though not everyone can appreciate the joy that is anchovies, they are the best pizzas.

Achilles: Okay, but what if you had an anchovy pizza with uncooked dough, ketchup marinara, served deep-dish?

Zeno: That's unpossible. Only pineapple pizza can be bad.


----------



## CleverNickName

I don't want to get all political, but what if everyone was treated with fairness and respect?


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> I don't want to get all political, but what if everyone was treated with fairness and respect?



Too political. Reported


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> I don't want to get all political, but what if everyone was treated with fairness and respect?






 How can I continue to enjoy my narcissistic megalomaniacal feelings of superiority if everybody's equal?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mad_Jack said:


> How can I continue to enjoy my narcissistic megalomaniacal feelings of superiority if everybody's equal?



In my experience, they sort themselves out. 

The ones who put ketchup on hot dogs? 

Yeah, you're better than them.


----------



## Asisreo

CleverNickName said:


> I don't want to get all political, but what if everyone was treated with fairness and respect?



That's okay as long as things are more fair in my favor


----------



## Aeson

eyeheartawk said:


> In my experience, they sort themselves out.
> 
> The ones who put ketchup on hot dogs?
> 
> Yeah, you're better than them.



Ketchup belongs on hotdogs.


----------



## Gradine

Aeson said:


> Ketchup belongs on hotdogs.



Too political. Reported.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Aeson said:


> Ketchup belongs on hotdogs.



_Enjoys narcissistic megalomaniacal feelings of superiority_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> Ketchup belongs on hotdogs.




We've been over this already!

If you put the ketchup on the _hot dogs_, then Chicago will run out of sauce for its _deep-dish casserole._


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> I don't want to get all political, but what if everyone was treated with fairness and respect?



There has to be an "other". How would you know you're right and better without it? You have to have something to measure yourself against. There has to be a higher level to struggle to achieve but at the same time a lower level to struggle to avoid. 
There has to be a conflict. As proof, someone will disagree with what I said. It's inevitable. 

It can work in the micro but not in the macro. If everyone got along, no one would need to struggle to improve themselves. The worker bees would stop producing.


----------



## Aeson

I will die on this hill of empty ketchup packets. 

There is even ketchup FOR hotdogs.


----------



## eyeheartawk

As some bearded German dude said once 

_The history of all hitherto existing society has been the history of condiment-struggles_


----------



## CleverNickName

Aeson said:


> There has to be an "other".
> (snip)
> It can work in the micro but not in the macro. If everyone got along, no one would need to struggle to improve themselves. The worker bees would stop producing.



Huh.  I never thought of that....what if we treat everyone fairly and with respect, and it's all for naught?

Let's test the theory, then.  Maybe you're right (probably not) but we won't know for certain until we try!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> As some bearded German dude said once
> 
> _The history of all hitherto existing society has been the history of condiment-struggles_




Three Sauces for the Burger-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dominos that you call on the phone
Nine for Taco Bell when you are high,
One for the Dark Guy on his dark throne
In the Land of Fieri where the donkeys lie.
One Sauce to rule them all, One Sauce to find them,
One Sauce to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Fieri where the donkeys lie.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Three Sauces for the Burger-kings under the sky,
> Seven for the Dominos that you call on the phone
> Nine for Taco Bell when you are high,
> One for the Dark Guy on his dark throne
> In the Land of Fieri where the donkeys lie.
> One Sauce to rule them all, One Sauce to find them,
> One Sauce to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
> In the Land of Fieri where the donkeys lie.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> One Sauce to rule them all, One Sauce to find them,
> One Sauce to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,




Are we talking about sandwiches*, chicken fingers, and French fries?



(* Not great on burgers, dogs, sausages, or bbq.  Even the one sauce has its limits)


----------



## CleverNickName

There is only one sauce that tastes great on everything:  melted butter.


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> There is only one sauce that tastes great on everything:  melted butter.



IDK

I tried it on my Jello just now and it was kinda gross.

Gonna test it on Gushers now and will report back.


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> There is only one sauce that tastes great on everything:  melted butter.




 Having spent a year rolling pretzels at the mall in my college days, my PTSD is now triggered...
 The _butter trap_.... the _butter trap_...


----------



## CleverNickName

eyeheartawk said:


> IDK
> 
> I tried it on my Jello just now and it was kinda gross.
> 
> Gonna test it on Gushers now and will report back.



Well, yeah.  It probably tastes terrible on cat litter, too.  But on _actual food, _it's pretty good.


----------



## Gradine

I will brook no impugning the character of hometown hero Guy Fieri on this or any other platform


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Well, yeah.  It probably tastes terrible on cat litter, too.  But on _actual food, _it's pretty good.




I put it on my lobster ice cream ... AND IT MELTED!


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> Well, yeah.  It probably tastes terrible on cat litter, too.  But on _actual food, _it's pretty good.



No, I just tested that. 

That's actually pretty decent. 

Really gets into the litter crystals, you know?


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> Having spent a year rolling pretzels at the mall in my college days, my PTSD is now triggered...
> The _butter trap_.... the _butter trap_...



A hot dog in the pretzel???


----------



## Deset Gled

This sounds whiny and passive aggressive, even in my head, but I guess this is the right place for that...

I don't mind if you take my posts and share them outside of ENWorld. If it's a news item or update, I encourage it. And as long as it's not a major piece of creative work (like art or story), I don't care if you don't credit me. I've been on the internet for awhile now, I get how it works. But if you're going to read my post and like it enough to pass it around, could you at least tap the "like" button?


----------



## payn




----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> This sounds whiny and passive aggressive, even in my head, but I guess this is the right place for that...
> 
> I don't mind if you take my posts and share them outside of ENWorld. If it's a news item or update, I encourage it. And as long as it's not a major piece of creative work (like art or story), I don't care if you don't credit me. I've been on the internet for awhile now, I get how it works. But if you're going to read my post and like it enough to pass it around, could you at least tap the "like" button?



Years ago I wrote a piece about motorcycle group riding and it got shared on at least three different websites, without so much as attribution. You might say that I was somewhat annoyed.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Aeson said:


> I will die on this hill of empty ketchup packets.
> 
> There is even ketchup FOR hotdogs.
> View attachment 260795



If it's successful enough likely someday there will be a whole city of people who consider being doctrinaire about only using proper _hot dog_ ketchup on hot dogs (and not on anything else, how dare you put it on french fries you heathen!) to be a vital part of their local culture.


----------



## Cadence

I tried that "just ignore them" instead of using the "ignore button".  But it feels like driving by an accident and trying not to take a peak... and my repeatedly failing my roll to perceive how they're arguing in good faith makes it hard not to reply (and then delete because you know the mod's wouldn't be happy with what came out on my keyboard).


----------



## Gradine

Yeah, I'm beginning to think that this is going to be an absolute brick wall


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> Yeah, I'm beginning to think that this is going to be an absolute brick wall



Well, then you know what must be done.


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> Yeah, I'm beginning to think that this is going to be an absolute brick wall



Is. Was. Ever shall be.


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> Huh.  I never thought of that....what if we treat everyone fairly and with respect, and it's all for naught?
> 
> Let's test the theory, then.  Maybe you're right (probably not) but we won't know for certain until we try!



I'm always willing to try it. It is the way of The Federation after all. We need to mature more as a species and move beyond classism.


----------



## el-remmen

Remember when I said some people need to be encouraged to know when to quit? I suddenly realized that some people also need to learn to quit talking about having quit. 

What do you call the gamer equivalent of a sober vegan?


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> A hot dog in the pretzel???




 Pretzel dogs, when _done right_, are really damn good... The problem is that too many places overcook them.


----------



## CleverNickName

Roger, at Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope.  Now Roger, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom itself--the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe.  Roger, if I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate this so-called "Caster/Martial Divide" in 5th Edition D&D.  Thank you for your call.

(with apologies to Fraiser.)


----------



## Cadence

That would suck


----------



## Malmuria

well maybe then we should all leave


----------



## Jacob Lewis

CleverNickName said:


> Well, then you know what must be done.



Ok, but now you know what comes next.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

I wonder if Statler and Waldorf get invited to a bunch of parties?


----------



## Aeson

Cadence said:


> I wonder if Statler and Waldorf get invited to a bunch of parties?
> 
> View attachment 260868



They're the unlife of the party.


----------



## billd91

Weirdness lately


----------



## payn

This is turning out to be the morning from hell. Not a joke the bad news keeps pouring in...


----------



## eyeheartawk

I'm afraid that I might be responsible for all the talk of pizza, ketchup and hot dogs spilling into other threads. 

I feel I have betrayed you all.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm afraid that I might be responsible for all the talk of pizza, ketchup and hot dogs spilling into other threads.
> 
> I feel I have betrayed you all.



You are just trying to save us from ourselves.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Confused at first, but man, now that I understand the context, I respect it.

Sometimes the only winning move is to not play.

Also, this thread is leaking again.


----------



## Cadence

One of my "favorite" examples of how people think about numbers, rules, decisions, etc...  is when a state decides to put in a uniform grading scale, or change it.  And so South Carolina switched from 93-85-77-70 to 90-80-70-60.

And then they act like changing that matters and the courses will become easier or harder based on how it was changed.  Because apparently the teachers aren't smart enough to make the questions harder or easier to get whatever effect they want.  (Similar things come up when a state decides a B average is needed for scholarships, for example.)

Does a rule involving numerical cut-offs and consequences do anything if the rest of the system still isn't constrained?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> One of my "favorite" examples of how people think about numbers, rules, decisions, etc...  is when a state decides to put in a uniform grading scale, or change it.  And so South Carolina switched from 93-85-77-70 to 90-80-70-60.
> 
> And then they act like changing that matters and the courses will become easier or harder based on how it was changed.  Because apparently the teachers aren't smart enough to make the questions harder or easier to get whatever effect they want.  (Similar things come up when a state decides a B average is needed for scholarships, for example.)
> 
> Does a rule involving numerical cut-offs and consequences do anything if the rest of the system still isn't constrained?



Sometimes folks change things just so they can say they did something. Typically, folks in middle management to prove they are worth something by doing nothing. I lost track of how many corporate name changes they can come up with for building manager. (Its a lot!)

Though, since we are talking numbers, and its now fantasy season, folks tend to look for numbers they like while ignoring the ones they dont. Like a player who tears it up for 2-3 games at the end of the season. Folks assume that's a new trend that will continue while ignoring an entire season of games that were low and inconsistent.


----------



## CleverNickName

Planning my Halloween costume for the annual holiday costume party.  Honestly I will never top the year that I told everyone I was dressing up as Amelia Earhart for Halloween, and then never showed up.


----------



## RealAlHazred

All I know is that we have to do something about all these accidents happening in the last car of the train. That's why we're removing the last car on all trains from this point forward!


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> One of my "favorite" examples of how people think about numbers, rules, decisions, etc...  is when a state decides to put in a uniform grading scale, or change it.  And so South Carolina switched from 93-85-77-70 to 90-80-70-60.
> 
> And then they act like changing that matters and the courses will become easier or harder based on how it was changed.  Because apparently the teachers aren't smart enough to make the questions harder or easier to get whatever effect they want.  (Similar things come up when a state decides a B average is needed for scholarships, for example.)
> 
> Does a rule involving numerical cut-offs and consequences do anything if the rest of the system still isn't constrained?




This is one of those times that I wish tests for voting weren't so inherently racist.  I wanna make someone tell me what a bell curve is before they're even allowed to have an opinion on this.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> This is one of those times that I wish tests for voting weren't so inherently racist.  I wanna make someone tell me what a bell curve is before they're even allowed to have an opinion on this.



I mean, have you _seen_ Catherine Bell?!


----------



## Cadence

_Random Trio_:

Doing genealogy,  I wonder about a lich named Vechta, and what has brought a farmer from that part of Oldenburg-Munsterland to take up the region's name in their undeath.

----

I'm saddened by the lack of pictures of bards offering pineapple pizzas on google.

----



Deset Gled said:


> This is one of those times that I wish tests for voting weren't so inherently racist.  I wanna make someone tell me what a bell curve is before they're even allowed to have an opinion on this.




Can we make anyone who is in finance or economics take one too, and have to compare and contrast it with the implications of Chebychev's inequality?


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> I mean, have you _seen_ Catherine Bell?!



The only reason to watch JAG.


----------



## Cadence

Aeson said:


> The only reason to watch JAG.



I had totally conflated the name with Kristen.


----------



## Aeson

Cadence said:


> I had totally conflated the name with Kristen.



Catharine is way hotter and a better actress.


----------



## Deset Gled

Aeson said:


> Catharine is way hotter and a better actress.




I think the more politically correct and on topic thing to say is that they're on different curves.


----------



## Aeson

Deset Gled said:


> I think the more politically correct and on topic thing to say is that they're on different curves.



Catharine is a hot dog with ketchup and mustard.
Kristen is a plain hot dog.


----------



## billd91

Aeson said:


> Catharine is way hotter and a better actress.



I'll take Kristen's acting in *The Good Place* over Catherine's in *Good Witch* any day. I'm not entirely sure what it is but all those Hallmark shows are terrible and suck all the talent out of the room.


----------



## CleverNickName

There's a whole lot of "_Will you guys stop ordering pineapple on your pizza, you're making my pepperoni taste bland by comparison_" energy in the threads lately.


----------



## South by Southwest

CleverNickName said:


> There's a whole lot of "_Will you guys stop ordering pineapple on your pizza, you're making my pepperoni taste bland by comparison_" energy in the threads lately.



Yeah, it's been ticking me off. My pineapples; my business.


----------



## Malmuria

South by Southwest said:


> Yeah, it's been ticking me off. My pineapples; my business.


----------



## Davies

When things work out well for people I wouldn't normally like, in their conflicts with people I can't stand, should I be happy ... or suspicious?


----------



## CleverNickName

I should start a thread titled, "What Do You Expect to See in the Next '_What Do You Expect to See in 6E' _Thread?"


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I should start a thread titled, "What Do You Expect to See in the Next '_What Do You Expect to See in the Next Edition of D&D' _Thread?"




I'm pretty sure that, no matter what it has, we will still have ample opportunity to hear in threads about it how it doesn't have the good stuff (but other non-D&D games do).


----------



## Galandris

Make a thread about contentious topic.
Ask people not to disagree about contentious topic.
Become all sulky-pouty when people disagree about contentious topic.


----------



## Cadence

"I care so much that I can (and will) go on about this for days.  But don't worry, I won't bother bringing it up and going off about it too much in my own threads.  I'll wait until you give me a chance to slip it into a thread you started that's trying to go the other way.  That's how much I care."

Is there _anything_ on the Internet this doesn't happen for?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> "I care so much that I can (and will) go on about this for days.  But don't worry, I won't bother bringing it up and going off about it too much in my own threads.  I'll wait until you give me a chance to slip it into a thread you started that's trying to go the other way.  That's how much I care."
> 
> Is there _anything_ on the Internet this doesn't happen for?



No. There is not.


----------



## Hussar

But. But. But. Pizza is the prime answer to all things.


----------



## Aeson

Malmuria said:


>



I really love her videos. The pandemic videos are really funny.


----------



## Cadence

Yes that.  That is exactly why ignore is a wonderful thing.  (No, not you in this thread!!)


----------



## trappedslider

oh look he found a new slightly more covert way to post hate watching lol


----------



## South by Southwest

I keep telling myself, _"There is no virtue in snark or acrimony,"_ and it's true. But for just that reason, there's also no virtue in scrolling through to delight in reading a bunch of it. Ditto _schadenfreude._

So now I need to go through and mark a bunch of threads, _"Thou Shalt Not Read."_ Hopefully, this will curb my own tendency toward snark.


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> I keep telling myself, _"There is no virtue in snark or acrimony,"_ and it's true. But for just that reason, there's also no virtue in scrolling through to delight in reading a bunch of it. Ditto _schadenfreude._
> 
> So now I need to go through and mark a bunch of threads, _"Thou Shalt Not Read."_ Hopefully, this will curb my own tendency toward snark.



Always remember that some snarks are boojums.


----------



## Aeson

Ryujin said:


> Always remember that some snarks are boojums.



Some snarks are boojums, but not all boojums are snarks?


----------



## South by Southwest

_Genus --> Species_


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> _Genus --> Species_



What he said.


----------



## Cadence

South by Southwest said:


> _Genus --> Species_




Are we doing genus/species like the ornithologists do or like the mammologists do.   (Strictly as an amateur, it kind of feels like the former errs on the side of making different species while the later feels like it errs on the side of making sub-species. )


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Are we doing genus/species like the ornithologists do or like the mammologists do.   (Strictly as an amateur, it kind of feels like the former errs on the side of making different species while the later feels like it errs on the side of making sub-species. )



Maybe go ask a boojum?


----------



## Cadence

And then put it on loop.


----------



## prabe

If your description of my experience is different from my description of it, which description are we to believe?


----------



## J.Quondam

My description, obviously.


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> My description, obviously.



You are welcome to believe your description of my experiences, but it is perhaps best not to tell me my understanding of my experiences is wrong. I mean, you can tell me that, but when has that ever been helpful? Of course, "helpful" might not be the intent ...


----------



## Mad_Jack

prabe said:


> You are welcome to believe your description of my experiences, but it is perhaps best not to tell me my understanding of my experiences is wrong.




 Well, if you never realize that you're objectively wrong, you'll never learn to accept that I'm objectively right...


----------



## Deset Gled

prabe said:


> If your description of my experience is different from my description of it, which description are we to believe?






prabe said:


> You are welcome to believe your description of my experiences, but it is perhaps best not to tell me my understanding of my experiences is wrong. I mean, you can tell me that, but when has that ever been helpful? Of course, "helpful" might not be the intent ...




I understand and generally agree with your point here. But it's worth noting that this is the same mentality behind "Its not racist when I do it," or "It's just a joke, bruh".

A lot of what passes did rhetoric these days is just moral posturing in disguise.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> I understand and generally agree with your point here. But it's worth noting that this is the same mentality behind "Its not racist when I do it," or "It's just a joke, bruh".
> 
> A lot of what passes did rhetoric these days is just moral posturing in disguise.



It's also used in the Anecdotal Evidence Fallacy. "I don't care what that peer reviewed study says. This is what happened to _ME_."


----------



## Cadence

"I just can't get over how many people complain to me about the 'accidental' pineapple they get served on pizza."

"That's strange, I'm not sure I've ever heard of more than one or two people getting 'accidental' pineapple.  But you should hear about all the folks who actually order cheese pizza and later complain that there is no pepperoni on it!"

"That's totally different, and good, because pepperoni is gross.  Can we focus on the pineapple problem?"

"Don't you prefer calzones anyway?"

"Stromboli!!!"


----------



## prabe

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, if you never realize that you're objectively wrong, you'll never learn to accept that I'm objectively right...



Likewise.


----------



## prabe

Deset Gled said:


> I understand and generally agree with your point here. But it's worth noting that this is the same mentality behind "Its not racist when I do it," or "It's just a joke, bruh".
> 
> A lot of what passes did rhetoric these days is just moral posturing in disguise.





prabe said:


> "How can you be insulted when I've told you repeatedly this insulting phrase isn't an insult?"




Which is to say, I likewise take your point.


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> It's also used in the Anecdotal Evidence Fallacy. "I don't care what that peer reviewed study says. This is what happened to _ME_."




Actually, it's only a fallacy if it's used to extrapolate a general rule. If studies shows that 1 in 100,000,000 persons die in a stampede of kangaroos, concluding that wearing a kangaroo-repelling hat is not something that should be made mandatory, you could very well care and be extremely vocal if you're the one that got stampeded despite the odds.


----------



## Cadence

Has reading the first post in a thread before replying become gauche?  (Or has avoiding reading them always been the thing to do?)


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Has reading the first post in a thread before replying become gauche?  (Or has avoiding reading them always been the thing to do?)



Sometimes one will reply to something said in the thread, rather than to the OP. It happens. It happens more with some posters than others, 'tis true.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> Sometimes one will reply to something said in the thread, rather than to the OP. It happens. It happens more with some posters than others, 'tis true.



"We can let people have their fun while misery is safely in this thread."  <- Holy crap.  I just checked.  We're supposed to be having misery here!


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> Actually, it's only a fallacy if it's used to extrapolate a general rule. If studies shows that 1 in 100,000,000 persons die in a stampede of kangaroos, concluding that wearing a kangaroo-repelling hat is not something that should be made mandatory, you could very well care and be extremely vocal if you're the one that got stampeded despite the odds.



It's right in the definition of the fallacy


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> "I just can't get over how many people complain to me about the 'accidental' pineapple they get served on pizza."
> 
> "That's strange, I'm not sure I've ever heard of more than one or two people getting 'accidental' pineapple.  But you should hear about all the folks who actually order cheese pizza and later complain that there is no pepperoni on it!"
> 
> "That's totally different, and good, because pepperoni is gross.  Can we focus on the pineapple problem?"
> 
> "Don't you prefer calzones anyway?"
> 
> "Stromboli!!!"



I was in a conversation that went like that Friday night. I bowed out of it: I simply could not keep track of what was being said.


----------



## Aeson

prabe said:


> Sometimes one will reply to something said in the thread, rather than to the OP. It happens. It happens more with some posters than others, 'tis true.



You're talking about me aren't you?


----------



## prabe

Aeson said:


> You're talking about me aren't you?


----------



## prabe

It's a neat rhetorical trick, to keep using a phrase others have told you they find insulting, while insisting you're not being insulting. It almost seems clever, the way it puts people off their balance. I bet it makes you feel superior.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Cadence said:


> But you should hear about all the folks who actually order cheese pizza and later complain that there is no pepperoni on it!"



As absurdist as the pepperoni scenario is, my first experience as an American dining abroad was ordering a mushroom pizza in an Italian restaurant and being disappointed to discover it had no cheese on it. For back in my homeland pizza with cheese is the default, naked pizza, the canvas upon which topping art is created.

But, that's an anecdote about actual pizza, so perhaps this isn't the thread for it.


----------



## Galandris

Benjamin Olson said:


> As absurdist as the pepperoni scenario is, my first experience as an American dining abroad was ordering a mushroom pizza in an Italian restaurant and being disappointed to discover it had no cheese on it. For back in my homeland pizza with cheese is the default, naked pizza, the canvas upon which topping art is created.
> 
> But, that's an anecdote about actual pizza, so perhaps this isn't the thread for it.




This is the exact inverse experience I had in this thread. I was so surprised by the topping discussion here that I had to ask "why don't you consider cheese a topping" and everyone was like "it's not a topping, it's regular part of the pizza, like the dough...", puzzling me.


----------



## billd91

Seriously? MRA talking points?


----------



## Asisreo

Darn it.


----------



## RealAlHazred

billd91 said:


> Seriously? MRA talking points?



I just feel like men are being treated as second-class citizens, and it's *not right*! Men are supposed to be able to treat _others_ as second-class citizens, with impunity! Is the world taking crazy pills?


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> I just feel like men are being treated as second-class citizens, and it's *not right*! Men are supposed to be able to treat _others_ as second-class citizens, with impunity! Is the world taking crazy pills?



"Giving other people rights takes away from my extra rights!"


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> "Giving other people rights takes away from my extra rights!"



"So unfair!!!"


----------



## eyeheartawk

RealAlHazred said:


> Is the world taking crazy pills?



Maybe.

Or they're so crazy that they're actually Tic Tacs and they're just saying they're pills.


----------



## prabe

eyeheartawk said:


> Maybe.
> 
> Or they're so crazy that they're actually Tic Tacs and they're just saying they're pills.



TicTacs, crazy pills.

Tomayto, tomahto.


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> Maybe.
> 
> Or they're so crazy that they're actually Tic Tacs and they're just saying they're pills.



Now trying to remember which show I just watched where the person was clearly taking TicTacs out of a pill bottle.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ryujin said:


> Now trying to remember which show I just watched where the person was clearly taking TicTacs out of a pill bottle.



I remember that!

That show was called "Me, at Thanksgiving".


----------



## prabe

eyeheartawk said:


> I remember that!
> 
> That show was called "Me, at Thanksgiving".



No no no no. "Me, at Thanksgiving" is me _taking pills out of a TicTacs box_ while _drinking rum from a Coke bottle_.


----------



## eyeheartawk

prabe said:


> No no no no. "Me, at Thanksgiving" is me _taking pills out of a TicTacs box_ while _drinking rum from a Coke bottle_.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


>



I always know I have had enough "tic-taks" when I start to see mini Nick Nolte.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> No no no no. "Me, at Thanksgiving" is me _taking pills out of a TicTacs box_ while _drinking rum from a Coke bottle_.



I thought that it was "dropping Vallium like TicTacs"?


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> I always know I have had enough "tic-taks" when I start to see mini Nick Nolte.



Wait, that's not Nick Nolte at all... It's Gary Busey!


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> I thought that it was "dropping Vallium like TicTacs"?



Sure ... that's why you put the pills in the TicTacs box. Putting the TicTacs in the pill bottle is just gonna piss someone off.


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Wait, that's not Nick Nolte at all... It's Gary Busey!



You have had too much then, yes.


----------



## Cadence

"Open-faced sandwich mess is inherent in Pizza.  If the box flips over or gets tilted you'll have the cheese slide off everywhere.  You should do Calzones."

"But I like only having one layer of crust and the immediate taste of cheese and sauce and toppings.  What if we just try not to tip the box? "

"It's still an inherent problem that you could solve with better design!"

" Don't you pretty much always eat a classic open-faced sandwich with a fork?  So does that  maybe apply to some stuffed pizzas but not to  most of the others anyway?" 

"I can't be responsible if you don't see why my definition describes it perfectly.  Can we please focus on your poor choice of food architecture?"


----------



## eyeheartawk

Another hot food take:

Cobbler is a lie. 

Cobbler is just pie somebody dropped, scraped back into the dish and made up a name so they wouldn't get yelled at.


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> Another hot food take:
> 
> Cobbler is a lie.
> 
> Cobbler is just pie somebody dropped, scraped back into the dish and made up a name so they wouldn't get yelled at.




Isn't cobbler a cake that wanted to be a pie, and someone got frustrated and just gave up?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Isn't cobbler a cake that wanted to be a pie, and someone got frustrated and just gave up?



Who cares? As long as its Strawberry-rhubarb I'm in.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Who cares? As long as its Strawberry-rhubarb I'm in.



Most people don't prepare the rhubarb right and so it's often stringy with nasty texture.

My dad's biggest failing as a person might very well be that he actually likes rhubarb even when it is prepared that way.  His second biggest would then be that he would willingly waste strawberries to make strawberry rhubarb pie.


----------



## Cadence

"Sure, this is a thread in the Z forum, and I self admittedly don't play Z or know much about it. But I won't let that stop me from pissing all over it and shovelling out the bad wrong fun at those who do."


----------



## prabe

Huh. Ya win some, ya lose some.


----------



## South by Southwest

Mercer went into full-on Butcher Mode.


----------



## Malmuria

apparently dnd is now an incorporeal undead


----------



## Umbran

eyeheartawk said:


> Another hot food take:
> 
> Cobbler is a lie.
> 
> Cobbler is just pie somebody dropped, scraped back into the dish and made up a name so they wouldn't get yelled at.




Insult the baking of other people's spouses at your peril.


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> Insult the baking of other people's spouses at your peril.



That's not mocking laughter, promise. (Figured I'd make that clear.)


----------



## South by Southwest

The Need to Be Right is the enemy of honest thought.

Also, I happen to _like_ cobbler, especially boysenberry.


----------



## Cadence

South by Southwest said:


> The Need to Be Right is the enemy of honest thought.
> 
> Also, I happen to _like_ cobbler, especially boysenberry.




Cobbler is a scouting mainstay.  Which still doesn't mean it isn't somewhat like a cake that wanted to be a pie and got dropped in frustration.

On a serious note, what is the difference between a Cobbler and  a "Dump Cake"?

Also, how did I not know about Dutch oven liners until this year?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Cadence said:


> Also, how did I not know about Dutch oven liners until this year?



The ones for crockpots are great too.

WHY DON'T YOU MONSTERS MAKE YOUR GOBBLER IN THAT TOO WHILE YOU'RE AT IT


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> The Need to Be Right is the enemy of honest thought.
> 
> Also, I happen to _like_ cobbler, especially boysenberry.



Through a gruesome and gradual exposure I have made myself immune to all forms of Boysen.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> On a serious note, what is the difference between a Cobbler and  a "Dump Cake"?
> 
> Also, how did I not know about Dutch oven liners until this year?




These sentences seem dangerous together.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Oh, dear _Gob_, *that* thread is going to go over well... I foresee it closed within four replies.


----------



## CleverNickName

Peach is the One True Cobbler.

*CleverNickName's Peach Cobbler*
(You're welcome)

Filling:
2 lbs. frozen peaches, thawed
1/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup brown sugar
1/4 tsp. ground cinnamon
1/2 tsp. ground ginger
1/4 tsp. ground nutmeg
Juice of 1/2 lemon
1 Tbsp. corn starch

Crust:
1 cup all-purpose flour
1/2 cup white sugar
1 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
6 Tbsp. melted butter
1/4 cup boiling water

Topping:
3 Tbsp. white sugar
1 tsp. ground cinnamon
1/2 tsp. ground ginger
2-3 Tbsp. rolled oats
2-3 Tbsp. melted butter

Instructions:
1.  Combine all ingredients for the filling, and pour into a cast-iron skillet.  Bake at 425°F for 15 minutes, or until thickened and bubbly.  (Using previously frozen-and-thawed fruit is my trick to help the fruit soften more quickly and evenly in the oven.  Also, I'm just kidding about peaches being the One True Cobbler...almost any fruit will work in this recipe.)

2.  Combine all ingredients for the crust, and stir until just combined.  Drop by the spoonful over the bubbling filling, in a single layer.  (Cooking the filling first is my trick to help the crust cook on the bottom.  Otherwise you might have a burnt top and gummy dough bottom.)

3.  Combine all ingredients for the topping, and scatter over the top of the crust.  (This is my trick for having a streusel-like crunch on top.)

4.  Return to the oven, and bake for another 30-40 minutes or until the topping is golden and the fruit is bubbly.

5.  Let sit for 15 minutes, then serve warm.  Possibly with a scoop of vanilla ice cream and/or a dollop of whipped cream.  I like mine with a cup of strong black coffee and a fork, but you do you.


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> Cobbler is a scouting mainstay.  *Which still doesn't mean it isn't somewhat like a cake that wanted to be a pie and got dropped in frustration.*



That is beautiful.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Peach is the One True Cobbler.
> 
> *CleverNickName's Peach Cobbler*
> (You're welcome)
> 
> Filling:
> 2 lbs. frozen peaches, thawed
> 1/4 cup white sugar
> 1/4 cup brown sugar
> 1/4 tsp. ground cinnamon
> 1/2 tsp. ground ginger
> 1/4 tsp. ground nutmeg
> Juice of 1/2 lemon
> 1 Tbsp. corn starch
> 
> Crust:
> 1 cup all-purpose flour
> 1/2 cup white sugar
> 1 tsp. baking powder
> 1/2 tsp. salt
> 6 Tbsp. melted butter
> 1/4 cup boiling water
> 
> Topping:
> 3 Tbsp. white sugar
> 1 tsp. ground cinnamon
> 1/2 tsp. ground ginger
> 2-3 Tbsp. rolled oats
> 2-3 Tbsp. melted butter
> 
> Instructions:
> 1.  Combine all ingredients for the filling, and pour into a cast-iron skillet.  Bake at 425°F for 15 minutes, or until thickened and bubbly.  (Using previously frozen-and-thawed fruit is my trick to help the fruit soften more quickly and evenly in the oven.  Also, I'm just kidding about peaches being the One True Cobbler...almost any fruit will work in this recipe.)
> 
> 2.  Combine all ingredients for the crust, and stir until just combined.  Drop by the spoonful over the bubbling filling, in a single layer.  (Cooking the filling first is my trick to help the crust cook on the bottom  Otherwise you might have a burnt top and gummy dough bottom.)
> 
> 3.  Combine all ingredients for the topping, and scatter over the top of the crust.  (This is my trick for having a streusel-like crunch on top.)
> 
> 4.  Return to the oven, and bake for another 30-40 minutes or until the topping is golden and the fruit is bubbly.
> 
> 5.  Let sit for 15 minutes, then serve warm.  Possibly with a scoop of vanilla ice cream and/or a dollop of whipped cream.  I like mine with a cup of strong black coffee and a fork, but you do you.




That seems a lot harder than...  

FB scouting friends to remind self how much fruit. Put fruit in bottom of dutch oven (maybe some soda too, maybe use a liner, probably grease it with some butter), put cake mix on top of fruit - no stirring, put some butter on top of cake mix, cook with more coals on top than under (possibly while hand cranking ice cream).

Peaches with yellow cake mix or cherries with chocolate cake mix seem most traditional.

But definitely worth trying!


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> On a serious note, what is the difference between a Cobbler and  a "Dump Cake"?




A dump cake uses cake mix for the topping, while a Cobbler typically uses something more like a sweet biscuit dough.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> A dump cake uses cake mix for the topping, while a Cobbler typically uses something more like a sweet biscuit dough.



I would believe that - and google seems to confirm it (even though it means I've been calling my dump cakes cobblers all these years).


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> That seems a lot harder than...
> 
> FB scouting friends to remind self how much fruit. Put fruit in bottom of dutch oven (maybe some soda too, maybe use a liner, probably grease it with some butter), put cake mix on top of fruit - no stirring, put some butter on top of cake mix, cook with more coals on top than under (possibly while hand cranking ice cream).
> 
> Peaches with yellow cake mix or cherries with chocolate cake mix seem most traditional.
> 
> But definitely worth trying!



I'll have to try that recipe sometime.  I don't usually have a box of cake mix handy, but I know how to fake it (a cake mix is just self-rising flour + powdered sugar + powdered  milk + salt).


----------



## Ryujin

My mother's cobbler was always made with something that resembled graham cracker-like crust, though I don't know exactly what she used, making it seem essentially like the "dropped pie" model.


----------



## South by Southwest

Ryujin said:


> My mother's cobbler was always made with something that resembled graham cracker-like crust, though I don't know exactly what she used, making it seem essentially like the "dropped pie" model.



Yeah, that's what we usually had growing up.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> I would believe that - and google seems to confirm it (even though it means I've been calling my dump cakes cobblers all these years).




Here's a selection of names for items in the family:
Cobbler, crisp, crumble, crunch, betty, buckle, long cake, boy bait, grunt, slump, pandowdy, sonker. 

And sometimes the differences are very finicky.  Like, a grunt is a cobbler, but it is not baked - it is cooked in a closed dutch oven on top of the stove, so the biscuits are more steamed than baked.  In a pandowdy, you roll out the biscuit topping in one piece, and partway through cooking you stop, break it up, and push the topping down into the fruit.

The number of people who care about the differences between your dump cake and a cobbler is small.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> Here's a selection of names for items in the family:
> Cobbler, crisp, crumble, crunch, betty, buckle, long cake, boy bait, grunt, slump, pandowdy, sonker.
> 
> And sometimes the differences are very finicky.  Like, a grunt is a cobbler, but it is not baked - it is cooked in a closed dutch oven on top of the stove, so the biscuits are more steamed than baked.  In a pandowdy, you roll out the biscuit topping in one piece, and partway through cooking you stop, break it up, and push the topping down into the fruit.
> 
> The number of people who care about the differences between your dump cake and a cobbler is small.



You really know your bake.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> My mother's cobbler was always made with something that resembled graham cracker-like crust, though I don't know exactly what she used, making it seem essentially like the "dropped pie" model.




So, that might be a cobbler, or it might be more a crisp (or a crumble, if oats are involved in the topping).


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> You really know your bake.




My wife and I are hobby cooks.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> My wife and I are hobby cooks.



Im great on a grill, smoker, or stir fry wok. Im not a good baker tho. I only do cornbread.


----------



## Hussar

My younger daughter has just gotten into baking.  Got me a fantastic blueberry cheesecake for my birthday last week.  YUMMY.

I guess if she's going to find a hobby, I'm rather glad it's this one.


----------



## trappedslider

Umbran said:


> boy bait,



But does it bring all the boys to the yard?


----------



## Cadence

How do you end up playing with so many crappy other players!?!?


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## trappedslider

No oddjob,slappers only library whose with me? 









						Nintendo 64's GoldenEye 007 Confirmed for Switch Online and Xbox Game Pass - IGN
					

Rare has confirmed that GoldenEye 007 is also coming to Xbox alongside Nintendo Switch following months of rumours.




					www.ign.com


----------



## eyeheartawk

trappedslider said:


> No oddjob,slappers only library whose with me?



Wow this takes me back. 

Were you my neighbor in middle school?


----------



## Deset Gled

trappedslider said:


> No oddjob,slappers only library whose with me?




Weird side note, the point where they say that Halliday's favorite character in Golden Eye is Oddjob was when I lost interest in the movie Ready Player One. It was the moment they proved beyond a doubt that they were fetishizing history rather than actually caring about it.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> Weird side note, the point where they say that Halliday's favorite character in Golden Eye is Oddjob was when I lost interest in the movie Ready Player One. It was the moment they proved beyond a doubt that they were fetishizing history rather than actually caring about it.



I haven't seen the old Bond movies in decades, but don't remember anything but the bowler as a weapon (which in my memory seemed to fit the gestalt with other villains like Jaws).  So googled around really quickly and then realized this was probably about the video game...

Anyway,



Spoiler: Time.com thing about Goldfinger the Book.












						The Quantum of Racist | TIME.com
					

It’s common knowledge that Ian Fleming’s James Bond spy thrillers were hardly politically correct. They were packed with outdated, but probably deeply-felt, sexism, racism, and, yes, even homophobia. (Not to mention the relentlessly kick-ass sadism.



					techland.time.com
				







yeesh!


----------



## RealAlHazred

[DELETED BY USER]


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> My wife and I are hobby cooks.



I never really paid attention when my mother was still alive, which is a pity since she was a great cook and baker. My wife is also really good, when she has the energy to cook or bake (COVID is a bitch). However, I can contribute a recipe I saved from a Reddit thread about an ex-employee getting revenge on a crap business owner. It's kind of involved, but I really need to try this someday.

*Hao SiFu’s pork bone broth

Ingredients:*

4-5 pounds of pork leg bones and knuckles
1 pound of chicken bones (neck or wings work best)
2 large onions – chopped in half
6 cloves of garlic – lightly crushed
1/2 Chinese white radish – chopped roughly (replace with carrots if unavailable in your area)
1 thumb piece of ginger
Handful of dried shitake mushroom (pre-soaked)
Handful of conpoy (dried scallop)
1 tbsn of crushed black pepper
Several dashes of Chinese rice wine
*Method:*

Boil the bones in a separate pot for at least 10 minutes. Remove from water and rinse carefully under tap water.
Crack the leg bones along the middle (we used a giant cleaver) Place washed and cracked bones in clean pot with cold water and bring to boil.
Add all other ingredients.
Gently boil _Simmer_ with lid slightly ajar for at least 8 hours (the longer the better) stirring occasionally. It will smell terrible for the first 2 hours for some reason – this is normal. I've also used pressure cooker which reduces the cooking time to about 2 hours. It's still very good but unfortunately you don't get the nice emulsification of the fats.
The finished product will look like a rich, opaque, creamy white colour. Strain before serving.
This broth is served with fresh noodles with vegetables and protein of your choice. Ensure you season with soy sauce or salt before serving. OP liked it served with roast pork, bok choy and mushrooms with egg noodles.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> I never really paid attention when my mother was still alive, which is a pity since she was a great cook and baker. My wife is also really good, when she has the energy to cook or bake (COVID is a bitch). However, I can contribute a recipe I saved from a Reddit thread about an ex-employee getting revenge on a crap business owner. It's kind of involved, but I really need to try this someday.
> 
> *Hao SiFu’s pork bone broth
> 
> Ingredients:*
> 
> 4-5 pounds of pork leg bones and knuckles
> 1 pound of chicken bones (neck or wings work best)
> 2 large onions – chopped in half
> 6 cloves of garlic – lightly crushed
> 1/2 Chinese white radish – chopped roughly (replace with carrots if unavailable in your area)
> 1 thumb piece of ginger
> Handful of dried shitake mushroom (pre-soaked)
> Handful of conpoy (dried scallop)
> 1 tbsn of crushed black pepper
> Several dashes of Chinese rice wine
> *Method:*
> 
> Boil the bones in a separate pot for at least 10 minutes. Remove from water and rinse carefully under tap water.
> Crack the leg bones along the middle (we used a giant cleaver) Place washed and cracked bones in clean pot with cold water and bring to boil.
> Add all other ingredients.
> Gently boil _Simmer_ with lid slightly ajar for at least 8 hours (the longer the better) stirring occasionally. It will smell terrible for the first 2 hours for some reason – this is normal. I've also used pressure cooker which reduces the cooking time to about 2 hours. It's still very good but unfortunately you don't get the nice emulsification of the fats.
> The finished product will look like a rich, opaque, creamy white colour. Strain before serving.
> This broth is served with fresh noodles with vegetables and protein of your choice. Ensure you season with soy sauce or salt before serving. OP liked it served with roast pork, bok choy and mushrooms with egg noodles.



_EDIT_ Just saw that you posted the link to the original story, so I removed my Cliff's Notes version


----------



## CleverNickName

Starting a new campaign soon, and one _two _of my players have now indicated that they want to play bards.  Normally I would come here to vent about this absolute trainwreck waiting to happen, and Snarf would chime in and the two of us would commiserate about this ridiculous punchline of a character class...but Snarf is no longer here.  I'll have to let bard memes do the mocking for me.

Yes yes, you're magically whimsical, and your superpower is being able to do all the things that nobody else cared enough about to bother learning.  We can always count on you to bring levity and humor that nobody asked for, and to break everyone's concentration and derail a tense dialogue with a fart joke that isn't funny.  Nobody can chew the scenery like you can, you clown, you strutting minstrel, you showboating hack. Please leave.

I hate bards so much.


----------



## payn

Sounds like you have awesome players.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Starting a new campaign soon, and one _two _of my players have now indicated that they want to play bards.  Normally I would come here to vent about this absolute trainwreck waiting to happen, and Snarf would chime in and the two of us would commiserate about this ridiculous punchline of a character class...but Snarf is no longer here.  I'll have to let bard memes do the mocking for me.
> 
> Yes yes, you're magically whimsical, and your superpower is being able to do all the things that nobody else cared enough about to bother learning.  We can always count on you to bring levity and humor that nobody asked for, and to break everyone's concentration and derail a tense dialogue with a fart joke that isn't funny.  Nobody can chew the scenery like you can, you clown, you strutting minstrel, you showboating hack. Please leave.
> 
> I hate bards so much.
> 
> 
> View attachment 261330
> 
> View attachment 261332
> 
> View attachment 261333
> 
> View attachment 261336
> 
> View attachment 261337


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Sounds like you have awesome players.



I do!  It's just those two rotten apples that are going to spoil the whole campaign.


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> I do!  It's just those two rotten apples that are going to spoil the whole campaign.



I would have loved to be in the room when you first read the PHB and then realized that the Lore Bard is the best class in that book. 

What was it like?


----------



## CleverNickName

eyeheartawk said:


> I would have loved to be in the room when you first read the PHB and then realized that the Lore Bard is the best class in that book.
> 
> What was it like?



Well, first of all, you misspelled "Tempest Cleric."

But yes, the Lore Bard is in the Player's Handbook.  And when I realized that 5th Edition had decided Bard should still be its own class, instead of a subclass of Rogue (where it would at least fit in), my face looked something like this:






And then one of our players rolled one up, and I got a chance to see it in action.  My face looked something like this:




But I've gotten over it in the years since.  Now, whenever it's the bard's turn in combat, everyone just sits around and listens to their called action with the same expression on their faces:


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> Well, first of all, you misspelled "Tempest Cleric."



And you misspelled "Knowledge", so silly


----------



## eyeheartawk

See, when I play a bard I like to ground it in reality.

So instead of a lute playing storyteller or whatever I go for "That one guy you know who is like, really into improv."

I'm really smart and cool.


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> Starting a new campaign soon, and one _two _of my players have now indicated that they want to play bards.  Normally I would come here to vent about this absolute trainwreck waiting to happen, and Snarf would chime in and the two of us would commiserate about this ridiculous punchline of a character class...but Snarf is no longer here.  I'll have to let bard memes do the mocking for me.
> 
> Yes yes, you're magically whimsical, and your superpower is being able to do all the things that nobody else cared enough about to bother learning.  We can always count on you to bring levity and humor that nobody asked for, and to break everyone's concentration and derail a tense dialogue with a fart joke that isn't funny.  Nobody can chew the scenery like you can, you clown, you strutting minstrel, you showboating hack. Please leave.
> 
> I hate bards so much.



Missed one (granted, it is from a previous edition):


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> See, when I play a bard I like to ground it in reality.
> 
> So instead of a lute playing storyteller or whatever I go for "That one guy you know who is like, really into improv."
> 
> I'm really smart and cool.



Not really having a flair for music I generally play a skill monkey, with a deep knowledge of history. Recounting epic history and mythology is something I can do.









						Kabong El Kabong GIF - Kabong El Kabong Whack - Discover & Share GIFs
					

Click to view the GIF




					tenor.com


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ryujin said:


> Not really having a flair for music I generally play a skill monkey, with a deep knowledge of history. Recounting epic history and mythology is something I can do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kabong El Kabong GIF - Kabong El Kabong Whack - Discover & Share GIFs
> 
> 
> Click to view the GIF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tenor.com



Good call.

Play what you know. 

My future bard characters will just talk at people endlessly about Robocop.


----------



## prabe

I ... really ... *really* ... should not have looked in that thread.


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> Good call.
> 
> Play what you know.
> 
> My future bard characters will just talk at people endlessly about Robocop.



I'd buy that for a dollar.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ryujin said:


> I'd buy that for a dollar.


----------



## CleverNickName

"I don't play D&D anymore.  Haven't played it in years, and I don't understand why anyone would pick D&D over the huge variety of other RPGs on the market.  You might say that I hate D&D, and I hate the company that produces it.  Anyway, here's my advice for the next edition of D&D..."


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> "I don't play D&D anymore.  Haven't played it in years, and I don't understand why anyone would pick D&D over the huge variety of other RPGs on the market.  You might say that I hate D&D, and I hate the company that produces it.  Anyway, here's my advice for the next edition of D&D..."



What changes do you think we should make to bards?


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> What changes do you think we should make to bards?



Try using them as a cobbler/dump cake filler instead of as a pizza topping?


----------



## CleverNickName

eyeheartawk said:


> What changes do you think we should make to bards?



Snarky answer:
Put them in a separate book, far away from the Player's Handbook, and label it so that it is very clear that this class is not official game content and was never intended to be taken seriously by anyone.  Maybe call it "D&D: the April Fool's Edition!"

Serious answer:
Make them a subclass of Rogue.


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> Make them a subclass of Rogue.



But then they still exist tho


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Snarky answer:
> Put them in a separate book, far away from the Player's Handbook, and label it so that it is very clear that this class is not official game content and was never intended to be taken seriously by anyone.  Maybe call it "D&D: the April Fool's Edition!"
> 
> Serious answer:
> Make them a subclass of Rogue.



Make Rogues a talentless subclass of Bard.


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> Make Rogues a talentless subclass of Bard.




A talentless Bard... that's a Bard.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


> And you misspelled "Knowledge", so silly



And you misspelled "Community"!


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> "I don't play D&D anymore.  Haven't played it in years, and I don't understand why anyone would pick D&D over the huge variety of other RPGs on the market.  You might say that I hate D&D, and I hate the company that produces it.  Anyway, here's my advice for the next edition of D&D..."



During the edition churn, everybody wants a soapbox.


----------



## Gradine

RealAlHazred said:


> And you misspelled "Community"!


----------



## CleverNickName

All joking aside, the Protection Domain is probably the most underrated domain ever written for an Unearthed Arcana.  I was surprised that it didn't make it into _Xanathar's_ but the Grave Domain did.  I mean, we already had the Death domain...

Anyway. Next time you roll up a cleric, choose the Protection Domain.  Don't let Wizards of the Coast tell you what's good.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> All joking aside, the Protection Domain is probably the most underrated domain ever written for an Unearthed Arcana.  I was surprised that it didn't make it into _Xanathar's_ but the Grave Domain did.  I mean, we already had the Death domain...
> 
> Anyway. Next time you roll up a cleric, choose the Protection Domain.  Don't let Wizards of the Coast tell you what's good.



Wasn't that subclass turned into the Oath of Redemption Paladin?


----------



## el-remmen

I've been gone for a few days - as my daughter was born and woo-whee being a parent is hard work already!

On the very first day back home it was 4 pm and my wife and I realized we hadn't eaten lunch yet, so I ordered us a couple of pizzas. One was mushroom and onion. The other? Ham and Pineapple. Yum!

Anyway, my attendance will be spotty, so hold it down for me, ok?


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> , so *hold it down* for me, ok?




 Not if you keep mentioning ham and pineapple pizza...


----------



## CleverNickName

Mad_Jack said:


> Not if you keep mentioning ham and pineapple pizza...



Just leave that to me.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I don't think the standard should be _no _snark, but rather _good _snark. 

Inject banter directly into my veins.

(Put in the IV right next to the one I already got for nacho cheese)


----------



## Cadence

So, I apologize for starting to think badly about all tuna pizza lovers.  It turns out that they don't all regularly interrupt the conversations of folks who like pineapple pizza to disparage pineapple and hype tuna.  One of my best friends really likes tuna, but has never brought it up while we've been having and discussing pineapple pizza over the years.  (I mean, I figured they didn't all do that, was just starting to feel like it).


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> So, I apologize for starting to think badly about all tuna pizza lovers.  It turns out that they don't all regularly interrupt the conversations of folks who like pineapple pizza to disparage pineapple and hype tuna.  One of my best friends really likes tuna, but has never brought it up while we've been having and discussing pineapple pizza over the years.  (I mean, I figured they didn't all do that, was just starting to feel like it).



Some of us just prefer to stay quiet about it while our friends enjoy their pineapples.


----------



## CleverNickName

South by Southwest said:


> Some of us just prefer to stay quiet about it while our friends enjoy their pineapples.



This is the way.


----------



## Cadence

South by Southwest said:


> Some of us just prefer to stay quiet about it while our friends enjoy their pineapples.



Didn't even bring it up any of the times we were talking about toppings besides pineapple we might try.  I just had this picture of all the tuna lovers being fish evangelists.   The lack of pushing it makes it seem much more inviting.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> I just had this picture of all the tuna lovers being fish evangelists


----------



## Cadence

It really feels like you've been around here long enough that you should realize this is what you're trying to post in the middle of...


----------



## Cadence

I'm not sure what makes threads more "fun".  When the OP has something that is technically very well defined, or something that is very poorly defined.  Anyway "What fruit is most commonly used when making pizza?"

----

Unrelated, the answer to a recently asked question in a very long thread is an emphatic yes.  Yes it has.


----------



## payn

#powerpopfriday


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> I'm not sure what makes threads more "fun".  When the OP has something that is technically very well defined, or something that is very poorly defined.  Anyway "What fruit is most commonly used when making pizza?"



Tomatoes, of course.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Tomatoes, of course.



Is the wheat kernel for the crust a fruit?


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Is the wheat kernel for the crust a fruit?




Botanically, or culinarily?


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Botanically, or culinarily?



Arguing about definitions are what make so many ENWorld conversations so much fun!  

I'm asking botanically for the wheat.

But since you likely know, what is the tomato considered culinarily?


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Arguing about definitions are what make so many ENWorld conversations so much fun!




That's why I'm asking which one you want, rather than argue over which one I give 



Cadence said:


> I'm asking botanically for the wheat.




Botanically, the wheat kernel is a fruit.



Cadence said:


> But since you likely know, what is the tomato considered culinarily?




Typically, a vegetable, though chefs are ornery and don't always play by the rules.  The tomato is, if I recall correctly, also considered a vegetable for tax purposes.


----------



## Deset Gled

Umbran said:


> The tomato is, if I recall correctly, also considered a vegetable for tax purposes.




30ml of tomato paste (i.e. pizza sauce) is legally considered a serving of vegetables in some school cafeterias.


----------



## Cadence

Don't know where to post this vey short story, but it came across my FB feed and I thought it was some pretty great D&D fiction:


Spoiler: Story from Reddit " You're a mimic..."


----------



## Malmuria

Are Cheetos fruit or vegetables?


----------



## Cadence

Malmuria said:


> Are Cheetos fruit or vegetables?




I think corn meal is made from the fruit of the corn?  So, botanically or culinarily?    

My son will be overjoyed by this thought in any case.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> Don't know where to post this vey short story, but it came across my FB feed and I thought it was some pretty great D&D fiction:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Story from Reddit " You're a mimic..."



Aww! That's actually kinda sweet.


----------



## CleverNickName

I think "fruit" refers to the part of the plant that contains the seeds...so each ear of corn is a 'fruit' and the individual kernels are the seeds.  Right?  I'm not a botanist (or any other kind of biologist) so don't quote me.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Relevant to a conversation overheard earlier today, which I wisely continued to walk past rather than stop to beat a complete stranger over the head with nearby merchandise...

People commenting on your online posts are not "oppressing" you when they point out facts that prove the Truth directly contradicts your personal narrative.


----------



## Cadence

RE: Taking advantage of alignment, Lawful edition.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I've worked at places where these notices are posted. Nothing like the judgemental looks you get when you have to open one such door...


----------



## el-remmen

Ever since my daughter was born, the few times I have looked at the main D&D forum I have been washed over with a deep sense of apathy about any and all of it. I literally asked myself, _when was the last time I got anything useful for my games from the D&D discussion?_ And while I can remember instances of something useful, the fact that these instances are unstuck in time suggests to me that the  signal-to-noise ratio has gone beyond utility.  

I think I'll stick to threads on painting minis and making terrain and this one until something changes.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> I've worked at places where these notices are posted. Nothing like the judgemental looks you get when you have to open one such door...



At work I always ignore these signs. There's got to be a reason why I have master keys, after all. Some people think that I'm Lawful Neutral so this tendency to ignore a sign made me reconsider that, until I realized that I _always_ ignore the sign. Nothing Chaotic about that.


----------



## Malmuria

el-remmen said:


> Ever since my daughter was born, the few times I have looked at the main D&D forum I have been washed over with a deep sense of apathy about any and all of it. I literally asked myself, _when was the last time I got anything useful for my games from the D&D discussion?_ And while I can remember instances of something useful, the fact that these instances are unstuck in time suggests to me that the  signal-to-noise ratio has gone beyond utility.
> 
> I think I'll stick to threads on painting minis and making terrain and this one until something changes.



This is wise.  I recently saw this video on basically the same subject and it spoke to me along these lines.


----------



## Ryujin

Just to add fuel to the fire this was posted in a Facebook group, that I'm a member of, by someone going by the name "Drunken Bard"


----------



## Aeson

Malmuria said:


> Are Cheetos fruit or vegetables?



I thought it was dairy. It's made with real cheese, right?


----------



## Cadence

_Two unrelated ones_

Say you've never read the inspirational recipes or relevant "Philosophy of Pizza"  chapters about it, without actually saying it.

-----

It is certainly possible for the sourcing of pizza toppings, naming or descriptions of pizza menu items, or activities of the pizzeria owner to be directly related to  human and civil rights issues, and so the sensitivities in how those are discussed are relevant then. That isn't the case in discussions about your personal preference of Pineapple vs Pepperoni vs Tuna or Pizza vs. Calzone vs. Lasagna.


----------



## South by Southwest

*LET'S QUIBBLE!!




*


----------



## payn

Im like the gecko at this point with all the pizza metaphors.


----------



## el-remmen

I think I am really good at killing threads.


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> I think I am really good at killing threads.



Just not the ones I'd like to have die. . .


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## CleverNickName

Posting here so as to not threadcrap...

The premise is flawed from the start.  Nobody at my table wants to decrease the amount of magic in the game.  And I've never seen a game get broken by a Goodberry spell (seriously?  _Goodberry?!?_), or a Tiny Hut, or a Magnificent Mansion.  The ability to fly has never broken a game I've played in or DM'd, nor has teleport or misty step.  Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a completely different game.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Posting here so as to not threadcrap...
> 
> The premise is flawed from the start.  Nobody at my table wants to decrease the amount of magic in the game.  And I've never seen a game get broken by a Goodberry spell, or a Tiny Hut, or a Magnificent Mansion.  The ability to fly has never broken a game I've played in or DM'd, nor has teleport or misty step.  Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a completely different game.




The 5e games I've been or run have never had someone take Tiny Hut.  But reading it, It feels like 5e Tiny Hut could really do things (especially compared to 2e and 3e Tiny Hut...).  I might have to make a bard or wizard just so I can try it out.

If nothing else I'm imagining siege warfare.  From the inside, if the gate goes down?  Get some heavy-crossbow folks loaded down with ammo of various types and get a hut set up to block the passage.    From the outside, if you need a team to man the trebuchet and don't want them to keep getting killed - have them either stand in or behind the hut.   

Or imagine the fun some tornado chasers could have with that!


----------



## CleverNickName

Most of the "game breaking rules problems" that DMs complain about, are problems of their own making.

DM:  (handwaves encumbrance)
DM:  (handwaves spell components)
DM:  (handwaves ammunition)
DM:  (handwaves magic item charges)
DM:  (handwaves everything as often as possible)
DM:  WhY iS My GaMe sO bRoKeN!?  tHeSe RuLeS sTiNk!!!


----------



## J.Quondam

It's almost like pineapple or something.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Most of the "game breaking rules problems" that DMs complain about, are problems of their own making.
> 
> DM:  (handwaves encumbrance)
> DM:  (handwaves spell components)
> DM:  (handwaves ammunition)
> DM:  (handwaves magic item charges)
> DM:  (handwaves everything as often as possible)
> DM:  WhY iS My GaMe sO bRoKeN!?  tHeSe RuLeS sTiNk!!!



Wait, there are things more hand-wavy than the 5e encumbrance rules?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Wait, there are things more hand-wavy than the 5e encumbrance rules?



Oh my sweet summer child.

I've seen DMs handwave potion-drinking ("Oh sure, you can drink a potion as a bonus action, don't worry about it"), I've seen DMs handwave the number of charges in a wand ("eh, let's just say it fully recharges after a long rest, math is hard"), I've seen DMs handwave the hit points of a monster ("Meh, I'm bored, this monster is dead now.")  And then, about 2d4 gaming sessions later, the DM sits us down to have The Talk about how unbalanced the game has become.


----------



## South by Southwest

Cadence said:


> The 5e games I've been or run have never had someone take Tiny Hut.  But reading it, It feels like 5e Tiny Hut could really do things (especially compared to 2e and 3e Tiny Hut...).  I might have to make a bard or wizard just so I can try it out.
> 
> If nothing else I'm imagining siege warfare.  From the inside, if the gate goes down?  Get some heavy-crossbow folks loaded down with ammo of various types and get a hut set up to block the passage.    From the outside, if you need a team to man the trebuchet and don't want them to keep getting killed - have them either stand in or behind the hut.
> 
> Or imagine the fun some tornado chasers could have with that!



As a player, I've used Tiny Hut a bunch, and it is very powerful and does occasionally break the mechanics of some narrowly planned combat encounters, but I've never seen it break a game or heard of it doing so. I suspect the way some DMs and players define "breaking the game" ultimately reduces down to "anything that gives one player's actions an asymmetric amount of the limelight." I understand the worry, but in friendly games--the only ones I will ever play--no one is concerned with limelight, so it hasn't been a problem for us. People who have a more competitive temperament, though, easily could have complaints about these spells.

Where I still see actual game-breaking trouble in the mechanics is healing. There's just too much of it and it's too easy.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

I mostly see a problem with math. People still believe that it exists to keep the game perfectly balanced, but won't comprehend how a d20 undermines _ everything_, including math.


----------



## CleverNickName

Jacob Lewis said:


> I mostly see a problem with math. People still believe that it exists to keep the game perfectly balanced, but won't comprehend how a d20 undermines _ everything_, including math.



I mean, it's called "The d20 System."
There's a _clue_ in the _name_.


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> I mean, it's called "The d20 System."
> There's a _clue_ in the _name_.




 Yeah, but it's not fair to make people actually have to _think_ about these things. Thinking is hard.


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> Posting here so as to not threadcrap...
> 
> The premise is flawed from the start.  Nobody at my table wants to decrease the amount of magic in the game.  And I've never seen a game get broken by a Goodberry spell (seriously!?), or a Tiny Hut, or a Magnificent Mansion.  The ability to fly has never broken a game I've played in or DM'd, nor has teleport or misty step.  Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a completely different game.



I think a whole lot of people doth protest too much. But then, if we didn't, these boards would probably be very boring.


----------



## Ryujin

South by Southwest said:


> As a player, I've used Tiny Hut a bunch, and it is very powerful and does occasionally break the mechanics of some narrowly planned combat encounters, but I've never seen it break a game or heard of it doing so. I suspect the way some DMs and players define "breaking the game" ultimately reduces down to "anything that gives one player's actions an asymmetric amount of the limelight." I understand the worry, but in friendly games--the only ones I will ever play--no one is concerned with limelight, so it hasn't been a problem for us. People who have a more competitive temperament, though, easily could have complaints about these spells.
> 
> Where I still see actual game-breaking trouble in the mechanics is healing. There's just too much of it and it's too easy.



In 4e I went well out of my way to secure an Exodus Knife. The DM even encouraged it, when I mentioned it. It's basically a free once a day Rope Trick. I already had the ritual anyway, so no big deal. He then proceeded to make it not work pretty much anywhere that we went, where it would be useful. Seems he was worried that getting a relatively safe Long Rest might upset his carefully balanced encounters. If I were him, I'd have been far more worried about what I could do with the bag-load of other Rituals that I'd built up. It's what pushed me to multiclass. You want broken rituals? Look at the 4e Bard list


----------



## darjr

Oh ye filthy criminals, it be talk like a pirate day it be! Commence with the commensurate cant on the immediate!


----------



## Mercurius

My partner/girlfriend was looking at twitter next to me in bed and had a tweet about International Pirate Day open. I asked her, "What's the letter after q?" She looked at me, confused, and said "r?" I said, "Look at your screen, honey." She looked and said, "I don't understand." I said, "Look again." And then comprehension dawned in her eyes, and she said "ARRRR!!!!"


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> In 4e I went well out of my way to secure an Exodus Knife. The DM even encouraged it, when I mentioned it. It's basically a free once a day Rope Trick. I already had the ritual anyway, so no big deal. He then proceeded to make it not work pretty much anywhere that we went, where it would be useful. Seems he was worried that getting a relatively safe Long Rest might upset his carefully balanced encounters. If I were him, I'd have been far more worried about what I could do with the bag-load of other Rituals that I'd built up. It's what pushed me to multiclass. You want broken rituals? Look at the 4e Bard list



I really liked Rituals in 4E. It was a great way to make stuff work for levels where players should not have access to the level of power required to do a thing reliably.


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> I really liked Rituals in 4E. It was a great way to make stuff work for levels where players should not have access to the level of power required to do a thing reliably.



I used them largely to short circuit Skill Challenges. We all need to climb this cliff face, even the non physical characters? Let me provide an elevator for that. It was a great idea, especially as non magic using characters could technically learn ritual magic, if they had the prerequisites. A ranger who could do a Mount ritual, for example.


----------



## HawaiiSteveO

I’m having more fun watching Cobra Kai than Rings / Wheel / Dragon put together.


----------



## trappedslider

Got my heat gun, next will be the foam and paints.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Got my heat gun, next will be the foam and paints.



I have a very similar one. Make sure to practice on some scrap, first.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> I have a very similar one. Make sure to practice on some scrap, first.



yeah i watched a video showing the different thickness and how they respond to applying the heat gun


----------



## el-remmen

I have


trappedslider said:


> Got my heat gun, next will be the foam and paints.




I haven't pulled  the trigger on one of these yet, but I did get a hot wire cutting table for my birthday I have barely gotten to use because I got it right after a huge project I could have used it for. Sigh.


----------



## Janx

I did not comment on the thread about the thing that I don't care about. Because I don't care about the thing. And nobody cares what I think about the thing I don't care about.

And that's all I have to say about that.


----------



## payn

Cant fool us!


----------



## Cadence

Don't let the non-standard comma early on stop you from reading the rest.  It's spectacular.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> I think "fruit" refers to the part of the plant that contains the seeds...so each ear of corn is a 'fruit' and the individual kernels are the seeds.  Right?




So, technically in a botanical sense, each kernel is a simple fruit, called a caryopsis.

Plants like conifers (called "gymnosperms") produce a bare seed, possibly in an inedible protective structure.  But in all the angiosperms, there's a fruit which is a seed, plus a fleshy "pericarp" which develops from the ovary wall and some other structures.

In a caryopsis (like pretty much all grasses) the pericarp is minimized, and fused to the seed wall.  On a microscopic level the pericarp is still present, but it hardly matters, so we tend to just call the thing a "seed", even if that's technically inaccurate.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Wait, there are things more hand-wavy than the 5e encumbrance rules?




Yes.  The 5e material spell component rules.


----------



## Umbran

Janx said:


> I did not comment on the thread about the thing that I don't care about. Because I don't care about the thing. And nobody cares what I think about the thing I don't care about.




I find it helps to enter a discussion figuring that, even if I do care about a thing, nobody else cares what I think about the thing.


----------



## Hussar

I must admit, I never tire of this conversation:

A:  I really hate product X for reasons A, B and C.

B:  But, A and B are flat out not true and C isn't really all that true either because A and B aren't true.

A:  HOW DARE YOU TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T LIKE!!!!!  

B:  But, it's fine you don't like it, but, the reasons you gave aren't actually true, so, what is it that you don't like?

A:  I DON'T LIKE A, B and C!!  You can't tell me that they aren't true!  I don't like it because of A, B and C and nothing you say will convince me to like it.

B:  I don't want to convince you to like it.  I just want to understand why you don't like it.

A:  STOP TELLING ME TO LIKE SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE!  I ALREADY TOLD YOU WHY I DON'T LIKE IT!!!!  Stop talking about this.  I'm 100% convinced that I'm right and no amount of counter evidence will convince me otherwise.  Stop bothering me!

B:  But....

That was pretty much the entirety of the Edition Wars in like three pages of a thread.


----------



## el-remmen

Oh I did comment. I did and regret nothing.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Oh I did comment. I did and regret nothing.









I'm the long thread starter, punkin' instigator
I'm the fear addicted, a pizza illustrated
I'm a firestarter, twisted firestarter
You're a firestarter, twisted firestarter
I'm a firestarter, twisted firestarter

I'm the Snarf you hated, Greyhawk infatuated, yeah
I'm the pain you tasted, gin intoxicated
I'm a firestarter, twisted firestarter
You're the firestarter, twisted firestarter

I'm the self inflicted, Bard detonator, yeah
I'm the one infected, giffin' animator
I'm a firestarter, twisted firestarter
You're the firestarter, twisted firestarter
I'm a firestarter, twisted firestarter .... starter


----------



## Gradine




----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Cadence

Now I'm glad I hadn't yet fully channeled my inner-Linus and made a countdown timer for September 12, 2023.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Now I'm glad I hadn't yet fully channeled my inner-Linus and made a countdown timer for September 12, 2023.




What, you wanted a full year of Snarf unleased on a single day?

The reaction would be ... well ....






_September 12, 2023. A day that shall live in infamy._
Cadence, irrefragably.


----------



## billd91

I dunno, you talk about a campaign full of bait and switch, you might get some negative reactions. Shocking, I know.


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> I dunno, you talk about a campaign full of bait and switch, you might get some negative reactions. Shocking, I know.



I did my best to be helpful and constructive.  "Don't go down that road, the bridge is out."  But I'm not the one driving.


----------



## Gradine

Not sure who needs to hear this*, but ACAB includes gatekeepers


*Don't tell anyone but I actually do know


----------



## Deset Gled

Hussar said:


> I must admit, I never tire of this conversation:
> 
> A:  I really hate product X for reasons A, B and C.
> 
> B:  But, A and B are flat out not true and C isn't really all that true either because A and B aren't true.
> 
> A:  HOW DARE YOU TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T LIKE!!!!!
> 
> B:  But, it's fine you don't like it, but, the reasons you gave aren't actually true, so, what is it that you don't like?
> 
> A:  I DON'T LIKE A, B and C!!  You can't tell me that they aren't true!  I don't like it because of A, B and C and nothing you say will convince me to like it.
> 
> B:  I don't want to convince you to like it.  I just want to understand why you don't like it.
> 
> A:  STOP TELLING ME TO LIKE SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE!  I ALREADY TOLD YOU WHY I DON'T LIKE IT!!!!  Stop talking about this.  I'm 100% convinced that I'm right and no amount of counter evidence will convince me otherwise.  Stop bothering me!
> 
> B:  But....
> 
> That was pretty much the entirety of the Edition Wars in like three pages of a thread.




Difficulty: A is a straight up falsehood, B is 100% true, and C is situationally true but complex and commonly misunderstood.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What, you wanted a full year of Snarf unleased on a single day?
> 
> The reaction would be ... well ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _September 12, 2023. A day that shall live in infamy._
> Cadence, irrefragably.



It wasn't my first choice!  But better a mind once a year blistered with the bright sheen of the anti-bard sun, than the slow decay to pineapple pizza.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> It wasn't my first choice!  But better a mind once a year blistered with the bright sheen of the anti-bard sun, than the slow decay to pineapple pizza.




Movin' to the city
Gonna eat a lot of pizza
Movin' to the city
Gonna eat me a lot of pizza
Movin' to the city
Gonna eat a lot of pizza
Movin' to the city
I'm gonna eat a lot of pizza

Pizza ain't the same as flan
Pineapple ain't part of the plan
Fruit on pizza is for clowns
If I had my little way
I'd eat pizza every day
Bread and sauce and cheese- how it's made.


----------



## Gradine

Difficulty (Impossible): A, B, and C are subjective measures of engagement and enjoyment, and people are allowed to express dislike without finding the words necessary for you to understand them

edit: Except for (+) threads, where they should just GTFO


----------



## CleverNickName

Me:  (eating a slice of pizza)
Internet:  Hey did you know there's pineapple on that pizza?
Me:  Yes.
Internet:  But you're eating it.
Me:  That is correct.
Internet:  But there's pineapple on it.
Me:  Correct again.
Internet:  But...but you're _eating it._
Me:  Yes, I am still eating it.
Internet:  But...but...there's pine--
Me: Pineapple on it, yes.  I know.
Internet:  But you're...
Me:  ...eating it, yes.  As I've said.
Internet:  BUT THERE'S PINEAPPLE--
Me:  (takes another bite, holding eye contact)
Internet:


----------



## Gradine

I messed around, but I never thought I would have to find out!


----------



## J.Quondam

All the fights, all together, all at once...





Truly bracing!


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> All the fights, all together, all at once...
> 
> View attachment 261895
> 
> Truly bracing!



Oooh new Nintendo game


----------



## Malmuria

I'm glad that my favorite poster is back and least favorite one is banned.


----------



## Hussar

Gradine said:


> Difficulty (Impossible): A, B, and C are subjective measures of engagement and enjoyment, and people are allowed to express dislike without finding the words necessary for you to understand them
> 
> edit: Except for (+) threads, where they should just GTFO




Which would be fine except then folks get pissed off when questioned about their reasoning which is no vague and nebulous that communication is impossible and nearly impossible to distinguish from flat out bad faith, goalpost shifting arguments.


----------



## Janx

Umbran said:


> I find it helps to enter a discussion figuring that, even if I do care about a thing, nobody else cares what I think about the thing.



I believe that is the next step of my evolution.

Later, I'll realize that since nobody cares what I think, there is no point in posting what I think.

Later still, I might just stop thinking.  We'll see.


----------



## billd91

well, *SOMEone*'s got a high opinion of himself.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Janx said:


> I believe that is the next step of my evolution.
> 
> Later, I'll realize that since nobody cares what I think, there is no point in posting what I think.
> 
> Later still, I might just stop thinking.  We'll see.




 I stopped thinking years ago, after I figured everything out.
And I stopped posting as well - if they haven't figured it out yet, I can't be bothered to explain it to them.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Wow...

I just heard some mad scrambling noises over by the door... When I investigated, some idiot chipmunk had somehow gotten himself in between the glass door and screen door and couldn't figure out how to extricate himself, so he was just madly running back and forth and climbing up and down the screen door.

 That's got to be a metaphor for something...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> I'm glad that my favorite poster is back and least favorite one is banned.




I know! I was so excited to see those titles again!!!

How would the viscount carry on the system of primogeniture if he mistakenly allowed his enslaved grandson’s uncle‘s paramour marry his niece’s third cousin twice removed who was kidnapped by bandits?

​


----------



## Gradine

Hussar said:


> Which would be fine except then folks get pissed off when questioned about their reasoning which is no vague and nebulous that communication is impossible and nearly impossible to distinguish from flat out bad faith, goalpost shifting arguments.



Except nobody owes anybody an explanation for not liking things, and their ability (or lack thereof) to voice their disconnect with the game does not change the fact that they (a) actually have a disconnect with the game and (b) that disconnection is valid.

I've seen genuine disagreement lambasted as bad-faith criticism, especially when we're talking about edition wars and/or system preferences. The problem is pooposters so we should instead be complaining about the pooposters and their pooposting tactics.


----------



## CleverNickName

Next Survivor Thread is up:  "5E Viscounts Who Mistakenly Sold Potatoes to Vicars Secretly Married to Bandits"


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I know! I was so excited to see those titles again!!!
> 
> How would the viscount carry on the system of primogeniture if he mistakenly allowed his enslaved grandson’s uncle‘s paramour marry his niece’s third cousin twice removed who was kidnapped by bandits?
> 
> ​



I think Morrus said these forums were not the place to talk about the queen's death...


----------



## CleverNickName

I present as evidence: Rule #1, "The DM Can Make Their Own Rules."  
This means the rules are complete when the DM says they are, until the DM changes their mind.
Boom.  Rules-lawyered.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I present as evidence: Rule #1, "The DM Can Make Their Own Rules."
> This means the rules are complete when the DM says they are, until the DM changes their mind.
> Boom.  Rules-lawyered.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


>



Unless the DM says it doesn't.  

Right?


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Unless the DM says it doesn't.
> 
> Right?



Well that's the DM saying it


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I present as evidence: Rule #1, "The DM Can Make Their Own Rules."
> This means the rules are complete when the DM says they are, until the DM changes their mind.
> Boom.  Rules-lawyered.




Why do there have to be rules for everything in D&D? It's gotten to the point that rules dominate just about every aspect of the game!

It might even be said that rules have become the foot-long sticks of D&D.


----------



## Gradine

I've got your thick rulebook that covers the rules for literally everything. It's called a physics textbook


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Why do there have to be rules for everything in D&D? It's gotten to the point that rules dominate just about every aspect of the game!
> 
> It might even be said that rules have become the foot-long sticks of D&D.



Are we in 2022 talking 5.5 or in 2003 discussing 3.5?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Are we in 2022 talking 5.5 or in 2003 discussing 3.5?


----------



## Cadence

It feels odd to me to pick J, K, and L as the inspirational toppings for your pizza when J is something that would destroy the crust, K is a topping almost no restaurants (or even good grocery stores) have so almost never comes up, and L is seemingly for an entirely different class of food unless you're making a dessert pizza ... which J and K don't typically go with.

----

Some days, the thing that makes me happiest about ENWorld is realizing that none of y'all actually have any control over what the pizzeria is putting on the menu or what recipes they use.


----------



## payn

Still don't know what the hell pizza is supposed to mean anymore.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Still don't know what the hell pizza is supposed to mean anymore.




Whatever is in a thread that is really cheesing me off at the moment!


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Whatever is in a thread that is really cheesing me off at the moment!



Cheese is greasy and slides right off allowing us to get right to the crust of the matter.


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> Still don't know what the hell pizza is supposed to mean anymore.




 Pizza is a metaphor for Life.

Also, the pizza discussion was started by Communist agents as a means of passing coded messages.




Cadence said:


> It feels odd to me to pick J, K, and L as the inspirational toppings for your pizza when J is something that would destroy the crust, K is a topping almost no restaurants (or even good grocery stores) have so almost never comes up, and L is seemingly for an entirely different class of food unless you're making a dessert pizza ... which J and K don't typically go with.




 You could just order your pizza in Gaelic... It doesn't have the letters J and K in it's alphabet.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Still don't know what the hell pizza is supposed to mean anymore.



This:


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> This:
> View attachment 261938



Is this something about an accidentally bad gaming experience in Chicago?


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Hussar

Gradine said:


> Except nobody owes anybody an explanation for not liking things, and their ability (or lack thereof) to voice their disconnect with the game does not change the fact that they (a) actually have a disconnect with the game and (b) that disconnection is valid.
> 
> I've seen genuine disagreement lambasted as bad-faith criticism, especially when we're talking about edition wars and/or system preferences. The problem is pooposters so we should instead be complaining about the pooposters and their pooposting tactics.



Yeah, it can go that way.

But, for my money, far more often people want to pretend that their dislike of something is somehow objectively true and then, when you point out that no, it's not actually objectively true, people then lose their poop.  "I don't like something" is a perfectly fine thing to say.  But, when someone says, "well, why don't you like it" and you tell them, "Because it's crap", well, that's not really communicating anything.  If all people want is some pats on the head and validation for their preferences, fine.  But, don't pretend that it's something that it's not.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Gradine said:


> I've seen genuine disagreement lambasted as bad-faith criticism, especially when we're talking about edition wars and/or system preferences. The problem is pooposters so we should instead be complaining about the pooposters and their pooposting tactics.



The old philosophical conundrum that Socrates, Plato et al always contended with. 

If I post from the toilet am I not pooposting? 
-Julius Ceasar, probably, idk


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> Yeah, it can go that way.
> 
> But, for my money, far more often people want to pretend that their dislike of something is somehow objectively true and then, when you point out that no, it's not actually objectively true, people then lose their poop.  "I don't like something" is a perfectly fine thing to say.  But, when someone says, "well, why don't you like it" and you tell them, "Because it's crap", well, that's not really communicating anything.  If all people want is some pats on the head and validation for their preferences, fine.  But, don't pretend that it's something that it's not.




More often than not, though, it's a failure of two people to communicate accurately how they individually interpret their preferences. You can't _just _lay it on the feet of one person. It can be equally frustrating to the other person as well, who has to keep explaining their preferences! Which, you know ... that can be obnoxious in its own way.

Look, very few arguments are truly about _objective_ things. But imagine, for example, you are in a conversation with your significant other. The temperature in the house is set to 72 degrees (Fahrenheit ... 22.2 C). Your SO says it is "too cold." You say it is "too hot." The actual _objective measure of the temperature _isn't going to change, but I can guarantee you that if you keep demanding that your SO explain themselves as to why your SO doesn't like the temperature .... you will get it colder ... because it's about to get REAL COLD.

In the end, there is a difference between having a conversation about why people like (or don't like) something as opposed to demanding that people justify themselves to you. I do think that it is better to self-interrogate as to why you have the preferences that you do! In order to truly critique or communicate, you have to be able to articulate why things "work" - both in terms of effect on a supposed audience, and the effect on you. But it is also certainly true that at a certain point, preferences are irreducible or difficult to discuss or even irrational.

When someone says they don't like something because it's crud, they are communicating something- they don't like it! And they don't feel the need to further communicate with you or justify their preferences. If you are unfamiliar with the phenomenon, go to Fenway Park and ask Sully from Southie why he likes the Red Sox, and proceed to interrogate him as to objective facts regarding the Yankees. 

Now, who's up for some PUMPKIN SPICE RAMEN PIZZA??????


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> go to Fenway Park and ask Sully from Southie why he likes the Red Sox, and proceed to interrogate him as to objective facts regarding the Yankees



I just want him to pronounce "Bar Harbor"


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> I just want him to pronounce "Bar Harbor"



You mean Bah Hahbah?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> You mean Bah Hahbah?


----------



## eyeheartawk

I'm like, the mayor of Dunkin'


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm like, the mayor of Dunkin'



*
DUNKIES!*


----------



## payn

Oh no, are we back to temperature doesn't really objectively matter because it doesn't tell people how to feel?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Oh no, are we back to temperature doesn't really objectively matter because it doesn't tell people how to feel?




Nope, we're back to the inarguable, "Don't be a jerk to your SO!" 

Unless your SO plays bards or likes pineapple pizza. In which case ... I mean, that's what we call a dealbreaker.


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm like, the mayor of Dunkin'



After seeing a _lot_ of them driving a long drive through side streets of downtown Chicago one day, my son still groans whenever he sees one of their signs.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> After seeing a _lot_ of them driving a long drive through side streets of downtown Chicago one day, my son still groans whenever he sees one of their signs.




Well, yeah!

A Chicago-style donut.  AKA, a donut casserole.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Cadence said:


> After seeing a _lot_ of them driving a long drive through side streets of downtown Chicago one day, my son still groans whenever he sees one of their signs.



Yeah, I don't know. As a Chicago area man myself I don't honestly see the appeal and why we have so many here.  I also don't understand why people from Massachusetts love it so much. Their donuts are overpriced and honestly worse than gas station donuts, their coffee is whatever and their hot food is microwaved trash.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Oh no, are we back to temperature doesn't really objectively matter because it doesn't tell people how to feel?



It feels like household harmony is optimized by pointing out to the one who needs the AC or Heat run more that the kids might like that money to be spent on going to college someday and that they might also appreciate not having the planet be dead due to global warming.  Probably said loud enough for the kids to hear.  And then end with, wouldn't a jacket (in winter) or fan (in summer) help give our kids a chance to live long enough to have their own kids if they want?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> It feels like household harmony is optimized by pointing out to the one who needs the AC or Heat run more that the kids might like that money to be spent on going to college someday and that they might also appreciate not having the planet be dead due to global warming.  Probably said loud enough for the kids to hear.  And then end with, wouldn't a jacket (in winter) or fan (in summer) help give our kids a chance to live long enough to have their own kids if they want?


----------



## Hussar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It can be equally frustrating to the other person as well, who has to keep explaining their preferences! Which, you know ... that can be obnoxious in its own way



To be honest though, that's rarely the way it goes.  It's almost never "Oh, I don't like this thing" and leave it at that.   It's almost always, " I don't like this thing because A, B and C."  and then get all bent out of shape when A is demonstrably untrue, B is only true from a certain point of view and C is true but largely irrelevant to the conversation.

There are just so many buzzword arguments like this.  It's "-amey", videogamey, samey, boardgamey, take your pick.  

I have zero problems with anyone not liking something.  That's perfectly fine.  And, if you don't want to explain your preference, that's groovy too.

But what actually happens is someone starts dumping on EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION with the same gripe, over and over and over again, endlessly.   It gets really tiring after a while.


----------



## Umbran

Hussar said:


> But, for my money, far more often people want to pretend that their dislike of something is somehow objectively true and then, when you point out that no, it's not actually objectively true, people then lose their poop.




It is extremely useful to remember that human behavior often has... understandable but not exactly rational underpinnings.

Speaking broadly, we have egos, and a sense of social status.  Once we put a stake in the ground, failing to defend it can entail a perceived loss of social status in the community, or just a hit to the ego for being shown to be wrong.  Some folks will go to great lengths to avoid those perceived negative results.

And, the worst part is that this is not generally a _conscious_ reaction.  We are often convinced we are arguing because we are "right", not because it feels bad to have to admit that we aren't right.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> To be honest though, that's rarely the way it goes.  It's almost never "Oh, I don't like this thing" and leave it at that.   It's almost always, " I don't like this thing because A, B and C."  and then get all bent out of shape when A is demonstrably untrue, B is only true from a certain point of view and C is true but largely irrelevant to the conversation.
> 
> There are just so many buzzword arguments like this.  It's "-amey", videogamey, samey, boardgamey, take your pick.
> 
> I have zero problems with anyone not liking something.  That's perfectly fine.  And, if you don't want to explain your preference, that's groovy too.
> 
> But what actually happens is someone starts dumping on EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION with the same gripe, over and over and over again, endlessly.   It gets really tiring after a while.




So, I'd gently point out that maybe you aren't making a general point ... but ... a very _specific point_, about a specific argument, involving a specific edition of a game etc.

So here's the thing- when you are questioning people to understand their preferences - is that really what you're doing? Are you truly and sincerely trying to understand their actual preferences with an open-minded desire to just acknowledge their likes or dislikes? Or are you trying to engage in a Socratic process to get them to understand something about their preferences that you want them to acknowledge (kind of like what I'm doing with these questions)?

The thing about Socratic questioning is if you're not in a classroom, it's really annoying. 

And if you are in a classroom, it's even more annoying when you didn't do the assigned reading. Or, um, so I've heard.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


>



Could swear I saw that somewhere before


----------



## Ryujin

On my first visit to Seattle, in 2016, everyone was complaining about how hot it was. It hit 90F in March. To me, it felt like about 75F in Toronto weather.

The take-away: Proximity to Wizards of the Coast makes people complain.


----------



## Cadence

Almost everyone on some thread, somewhere, at some point, something like this:

"The dark-haired Orphan may be unforgiving, but not me,” says my ego. “I’m the reasonable one who tells orphans how they should feel.”  Later I think, “The blonde-haired child may be cruel, but not me, by God! I’m the defender and protectress of the instincts. When I get angry, it’s justified by the cruelty and insensitivity of others.”    - Jean Raffa

------

Me now. "I will not go see if that contradicts what you said vociferously last thread.  I will not go see if that contradicts what you vociferously said last thread. I will not...."

------

Edit: Me now. "My posting will not stop them from being a pedantic donkey.  My posting will not stop them from being a pedantic donkey.  My posting will not..."

-----

Another Edit:  Me now.  "I will not passively aggressively use the smiley emoji.  I will not passively aggressively use the smiley emoji.  I will not..."


----------



## darjr

Can I wish boneitus on someone? Is that OK?


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> Can I wish boneitus on someone? Is that OK?



Yes, as long as you don't start a Black Magic ritual to actually _inflict_ it upon said person.


----------



## billd91

So little self-awareness around some of these parts.


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> So little self-awareness around some of these parts.




Only some?  Wait, you've found the promised land!?!?!


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Yes, as long as you don't start a Black Magic ritual to actually _inflict_ it upon said person.




I'm now imagining a really dark update of "I Dream of Jeannie"...


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> I'm now imagining a really dark update of "I Dream of Jeannie"...



Coming in Winter 2023: Zack Sneider's "I Dream of Jeannie"!

Bottle Service will never be the same....


----------



## trappedslider

I actually like Synder's DC movies, but I can understand why don't like his approach.


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> I actually like Synder's DC movies, but I can understand why don't like his approach.



I haven't seen his mainline DC movies.

I'm a huge Watchmen comic fan and was pleased with his movie of it.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I haven't seen his mainline DC movies.
> 
> I'm a huge Watchmen comic fan and was pleased with his movie of it.



I was pleased, then I wasn't.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> I haven't seen his mainline DC movies.
> 
> I'm a huge Watchmen comic fan and was pleased with his movie of it.



Hi style fits the narrative, for that one. Batman too, for the most part. Maybe JL Dark too, if it's ever made. Definitely not something like Superman or Captain Marvel (lawsuit or not, he was Captain Marvel when I was a kid).


----------



## Gradine

Hussar said:


> To be honest though, that's rarely the way it goes.  It's almost never "Oh, I don't like this thing" and leave it at that.   It's almost always, " I don't like this thing because A, B and C."  and then get all bent out of shape when A is demonstrably untrue, B is only true from a certain point of view and C is true but largely irrelevant to the conversation.
> 
> There are just so many buzzword arguments like this.  It's "-amey", videogamey, samey, boardgamey, take your pick.



So again, your problem is with the _phrasing. _"Boardgamey". "WoW-like". "Dissociated mechanics". "Shouting arms back on." These are pithy, tropey, sometimes hyperbolic descriptors that people have latched on to explain their disconnect with the game. And while these different descriptors may be varying levels of _objectively accurate _(which is dicey enough a proposition to entertain in the first place), the feelings being communicated through them are completely subjective and valid.

To take it point by point:
"A is demonstrably untrue" - See above. I think "demonstrably" is pulling a lot of weight in the conversation, but for the sake of the argument, even if this or that mechanic isn't, at least definitionally, "dissociated", again, the accuracy of the term matters less than the valid feeling underlying it.
"B is only true from a certain point of view" - Yes. _Theirs. _That seems self-evident.
_"_C is true but largely irrelevant to the conversation" - To steal a turn of phrase, but what is or isn't irrelevant varies depending on the "point of view". Do you have any idea how mad I was at 4e when they got rid of the Profession skills? And separated and codified Knowledge? I'm literally still not over it. How relevant that (or any other particular irritation) is to the overall quality of a game is going to be, er, up for interpretation.

That said, it's always helpful when arguing on the internet to translate people's statements of fact into their opinions. When I say "Dungeon World is trash" what I'm really saying is shorthand for "I don't really like Dungeon World very much", not that Dungeon World is a trash game for trash people who should be ashamed for liking such trash. I mean, c'mon. It's not pineapple on pizza.


Hussar said:


> But what actually happens is someone starts dumping on EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION with the same gripe, over and over and over again, endlessly.   It gets really tiring after a while.



I mean, this is fair though.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> But what actually happens is someone starts dumping on EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION with the same gripe, over and over and over again, endlessly.   It gets really tiring after a while.






Gradine said:


> I mean, this is fair though.




So true.

As people say, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Well, maybe not people. Maybe just my High School history teacher.


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> So again, your problem is with the _phrasing. _"Boardgamey". "WoW-like". "Dissociated mechanics". "Shouting arms back on." These are pithy, tropey, sometimes hyperbolic descriptors that people have latched on to explain their disconnect with the game. And while these different descriptors may be varying levels of _objectively accurate _(which is dicey enough a proposition to entertain in the first place), the feelings being communicated through them are completely subjective and valid.



I've had to deal with a lot of these statements in the past couple of years, and I agree with you--these descriptors can be problematic but the feelings are usually valid.  I found that these tropey, hyperbolic descriptions only have as much power as we give them.

For example, Eberron has a certain...vibe to it.  And we just wrapped up a two-year campaign in Eberron.  Every now and then, someone at the table* would smirk and say something about "this is just like Final Fantasy," and I would shrug and say "Yeah, it kinda is.  Is that a problem?"  And of course there wasn't a problem, and we'd move on.  If people discussed it further, it was to mention things they enjoyed about FF _and _D&D and how they overlap in Eberron.  The heckler just wanted his opinion to be acknowledged, and that's easy enough to do.

So yes...sometimes arguing happens because someone keeps saying "Eberron is just like Final Fantasy."  Other times, the arguing happens because someone else doesn't want to hear people saying it.  In both cases, it's helpful to be the voice in the room that says "I agree, is that a problem?"

-----

*This person is well-known for their hatred of anime, JRPGs, and all things of that genre.  So it came up a lot.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> (lawsuit or not, he was Captain Marvel when I was a kid).


----------



## Cadence

Elsewhere.  I actually typed the words "It's ok to not always be a flippant [donkey]." in the reply box and got ready to hit enter (well, except I didn't say donkey).  And then I (a) though of our poor mods, and (b) realized for them  it is apparently necessary to be one.  

Usually I stop myself well before typing them.  I blame some of the e-mails at work I need to respond to for the lack of patience today.


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> Elsewhere.  I actually typed the words "It's ok to not always be a flippant [donkey]." in the reply box and got ready to hit enter (well, except I didn't say donkey).



You realized that "flippant slow loris" didn't have quite right effect? I agree. You did the right thing.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Woah.

So this Wōden's day of the Twenty-first of September, Two Thousand and Twenty-Two of the Common Era, I, Snarf Zagyg, have managed to purchase a list-price Sony PlayStation 5 a mere two years after it was released.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Woah.
> 
> So this Wōden's day of the Twenty-first of September, Two Thousand and Twenty-Two of the Common Era, I, Snarf Zagyg, have managed to purchase a list-price Sony PlayStation 5 a mere two years after it was released.



Let me know when PS6 is announced. That's when I usually by the current model.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Let me know when PS6 is announced. That's when I usually by the current model.



I got off the Console Train years ago.  I switched to PC back in 2008 with no regrets.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I don't know about that.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> I got off the Console Train years ago.  I switched to PC back in 2008 with no regrets.




My thing is that I spend so much time in front of a computer for work and other reasons that when I sit down to relax and play video games the last thing I want to do is sit in front of a computer.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I got off the Console Train years ago.  I switched to PC back in 2008 with no regrets.



I've been PC forever, but I do enjoy my consoles too. Im just not a day 1 or even a year 1 buyer of consoles anymore. Not enough new titles to justify.


----------



## el-remmen

Over on Twitter - you don't need to have an account to follow - I have been making a thread of what started out as random songs I love unironically, but has transmogrified into a non-linear history of my music listening. I add a song every time someone "Likes" the starting thread.


I thought some of you might enjoy it. . .


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Over on Twitter - you don't need to have an account to follow - I have been making a thread of what started out as random songs I love unironically, but has transmogrified into a non-linear history of my music listening. I add a song every time someone "Likes" the starting thread.
> 
> 
> I thought some of you might enjoy it. . .



I was thinking last night if maybe folks at EN World would like to start a music league or not. I think it would be a lot of fun.


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> I don't know about that.



A friend recently explained to me exactly why that isn't too expensive, based on the increase in performance, frame rate, resolution.... Couldn't care less, myself. The only reasons why I even have a GPU are for use with noise reduction software in online meetings, and faster photo/video editing. I don't need that much horsepower.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> I was thinking last night if maybe folks at EN World would like to start a music league or not. I think it would be a lot of fun.



We certainly have a wide variety of tastes here.  Could be fun.








						What are your (up to) five favorite tunes?
					

Another post got me thinking about music, and when different songs came out....  So currently, what are your (up to) five favorite songs/tunes/singles of all time?   Please list the year with each (I needed google).  No honorable mentions, no albums, no just groups - it's supposed to be hard...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> We certainly have a wide variety of tastes here.  Could be fun.




I like both kinds of music. Country AND western.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I like both kinds of music. Country AND western.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> ......




Weirdly, that's one of the only three songs I know the lyrics to (along with _Copacabana _and _You're the One that I Want) ...._

Which makes birthdays parties really awkward for me.


----------



## Malmuria

Checklist for games that I like

 incomplete
 incoherent
 inauthentic


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> Checklist for games that I like
> 
> incomplete
> incoherent
> inauthentic



Count me_ in_.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> Checklist for games that I like
> 
> incomplete
> incoherent
> inauthentic




When I look back upon my life
It's always with a sense of shame
I've always enjoyed the worst games
For every edition of D&D I like to do
No matter when or where or with who
Has one thing in common, too

It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a sin
It's a sin
Every game I've ever done
Every game I ever do
Every game I've ever played
Even games I play with you 
It's a sin ...

EnWorld commenters taught me how to be
So pure in framing and fiction and deed
.......They didn't quite succeed
For every edition of D&D I like to do
No matter when or where or with who
Has one thing in common, too

It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a sin
It's a sin
Every game I've ever done
Every game I ever do
Every game I've ever played
Even games I play with you 
It's a sin ...


----------



## TwoSix

Malmuria said:


> Checklist for games that I like
> 
> incomplete
> incoherent
> inauthentic



I don't feel like your list is complete, personally.  But that's just my opinion.


----------



## payn

TwoSix said:


> I don't feel like your list is complete, personally.  But that's just my opinion.



No, no, no you're doing it wrong. That's just your_ objective fact_.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

TwoSix said:


> I don't feel like your list is complete, personally.  But that's just my opinion.




_Completion is overrated._
-The contractor I hired for home renovations.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Weirdly, that's one of the only three songs I know the lyrics to (along with _Copacabana _and _You're the One that I Want) ...._








"My whole life, all I wanted is to make up new words to a song that already exists"


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I like both kinds of music. Country AND western.



"You can't mix Country and Western! They's two completely different types of music!"


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Completion is overrated._
> -The contractor I hired for home renovations.



Reminds me of Eldin from *Murphy Brown*. RIP Robert Pastorelli.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Soon to come to ENWorld -- my thread, titled "Why Edition Is The Only Thing That Matters".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> Soon to come to ENWorld -- my thread, titled "Why Edition Is The Only Thing That Matters".




Soon to be followed by my thread-

_Why New Edition is the only thing that matters. _

New Jack Swing 4eva!


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> Do you have any idea how mad I was at 4e when they got rid of the Profession skills? And separated and codified Knowledge? I'm literally still not over it.




So, going to sound a little cold here, and I'm going to use the generic "you" here, not you (Gradine) but... at some point, things like that should become a "you" problem, and not something everyone else needs to deal with or walk on eggshells about on a day-to-day basis.


----------



## Gradine

Umbran said:


> So, going to sound a little cold here, but... at some point, that should become a "you" problem, and not something everyone else needs to deal with or walk on eggshells about on a day-to-day basis.



Um... yeah. That... doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making, which is that what seems "irrelevant" to one person can be "very relevant" to another person, and so one shouldn't go about declaring somebody else's reason for disliking a system "irrelevant".

But also #BringProfessionBack


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Soon to be followed by my thread-
> 
> _Why New Edition is the only thing that matters. _
> 
> New Jack Swing *5.5*4eva!



FTFY?


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I like both kinds of music. Country AND western.




Fun Fact: These were two distinct genres that only got put together for Billboard chart convenience. The same is true of "Rhythm and Blues," the former of which were just called "Race Records."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Fun Fact: These were two distinct genres that only got put together for Billboard chart convenience. The same is true of "Rhythm and Blues," the former of which were just called "Race Records."




Tough decision on the reaction, but I appreciate trivia even when it sucks.


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> Um... yeah. That... doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making




But it does.

Let us say the question before us is, "Are strawberries a good fruit?"

Someone says, "Well, when I was a kid, my jerk brother smashed my face into a bucket of half-rotten strawberries, and from that experience now I cannot so much as smell them without vomiting.  Strawberries suck."

It would be valid to say that person's dislike of strawberries really isn't about the strawberries per se, it is about a traumatic event in their past, and isn't really relevant to the discussion of strawberries qua strawberries.  

When the relevance of your position is based in how mad you were and how you "haven't gotten over it" that's not about the game mechanics themselves, but about your emotional processing of the change.

As in, game designers shouldn't base their decisions on how some people got mad years ago, and never stopped.  They should make decisions based on how mechanics operate.



Gradine said:


> ...which is that what seems "irrelevant" to one person can be "very relevant" to another person, and so one shouldn't go about declaring somebody else's reason for disliking a system "irrelevant".




I will agree that there's no accounting for taste, in the original Shakespearean sense.  However, there are reasons for disliking a thing that are not relevant to a general discussion of the thing.  Some reasons are relevant to a discussion about the person, rather than a discussion of the game in a broader context.


----------



## billd91

Umbran said:


> When the relevance of your position is based in how mad you were and how you "haven't gotten over it" that's not about the game mechanics themselves, but about your emotional processing of the change.
> 
> As in, game designers shouldn't base their decisions on how some people got mad years ago, and never stopped.  They should make decisions based on how mechanics operate.



Not considering the preferences or emotional attachment (or detachment?) would potentially ignore the marketability of the product. While some emotional baggage may be impossible to factor, ignoring all of it is recipe for disaster. Just ask Roberto Goizueta.


----------



## Gradine

Umbran said:


> But it does.
> 
> Let us say the question before us is, "Are strawberries a good fruit?"
> 
> Someone says, "Well, when I was a kid, my jerk brother smashed my face into a bucket of half-rotten strawberries, and from that experience now I cannot so much as smell them without vomiting.  Strawberries suck."
> 
> It would be valid to say that person's dislike of strawberries really isn't about the strawberries per se, it is about a traumatic event in their past, and isn't really relevant to the discussion of strawberries qua strawberries.
> 
> When the relevance of your position is based in how *mad* you were and how you "*haven't gotten over it*" that's not about the game mechanics themselves, but about your emotional processing of the change.



....That line was a joke. That was me using hyperbole for the sake of levity. Lol I play 5e all the time, the lack of a Profession skill isn't keeping from playing or enjoying a game.

You're proving my point, however, by being so incredibly dismissive. I wasn't upset about 4e pruning its skill list because Rob Heinsoo personally threw my textbooks in the mud and stole my lunch money, which seems to be exactly what you're implying. I can and will, however, complain about them "dropping Profession as a skill" as part of a larger design philosophy shift away being able to spend character development resources on so-called "ribbons" that place greater value in my ability to express myself through my character, instead winnowing the game's focus down significantly. What seems so irrelevant to you that you would compare it to something so wildly off-base was actually an incredibly significant, system-specific reason as to why I eventually ended up bouncing off of the game.

Which is why when people act like these kinds of arguments are so "irrelevant" or "objectively false" that they are almost certainly evidence of bad acting and trolling, it tends to stick in my craw a bit.

And I say that as someone who originally cut their teeth on these forums as a died-in-the-wool 4venger.


----------



## Cadence

"It sounds like your friends played blue against you in MtG - a lot - and it still stings."


----------



## Mad_Jack

eyeheartawk said:


> Yeah, I don't know. As a Chicago area man myself I don't honestly see the appeal and why we have so many here.  I also don't understand why people from Massachusetts love it so much. Their donuts are overpriced and honestly worse than gas station donuts, their coffee is whatever and their hot food is microwaved trash.










Honestly, it's nostalgia, mostly. Back in the '80's Dunkin Donuts actually used to be a passable donut chain, and it's what New Englanders grew up on.





CleverNickName said:


> For example, Eberron has a certain...vibe to it.  And we just wrapped up a two-year campaign in Eberron.  Every now and then, someone at the table* would smirk and say something about "this is just like Final Fantasy," and I would shrug and say "Yeah, it kinda is.  Is that a problem?"




 Eberron is _nothing_ like Final Fantasy - not even the Monkey Grip feat and associated other cheese let me wield a sword literally _twice the size of the character_....


----------



## CleverNickName

Mad_Jack said:


> View attachment 262012
> Eberron is _nothing_ like Final Fantasy - not even the Monkey Grip feat and associated other cheese let me wield a sword literally _twice the size of the character_....



Sure it does.  Every time you describe your action, just add some flavor.

Instead of saying "I swing my greatsword at the ogre," say "I swing my comically-oversized greatsword, the one that is twice the size of my character, at the ogre" instead.  Done.


----------



## Malmuria

I was asking in good faith, actually, but it's clear there's too much animosity to have a conversation so I'll just drop it.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Not considering the preferences or emotional attachment (or detachment?) would potentially ignore the marketability of the product.




Nobody but you is talking about ignoring all emotional attachment.  So, I find this to be a bit of a _non sequitur_.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Nobody but you is talking about ignoring all emotional attachment.  So, I find this to be a bit of a _non sequitur_.




I stopped reading our local paper as much on my tablet when it stopped carrying Wiley Miller's strip. It just wasn't the same.  But I never seem to remember to go pull the strip up on GoComics or whatnot though.


----------



## billd91

Umbran said:


> Nobody but you is talking about ignoring all emotional attachment.  So, I find this to be a bit of a _non sequitur_.



Gotta consider more than game mechanics.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Gotta consider more than game mechanics.




If you want to build a market out of holders of decade-old grudges, that's your prerogative.  Expecting others to do so seems a bit much.


----------



## billd91

Umbran said:


> If you want to build a market out of holders of decade-old grudges, that's your prerogative.  Expecting others to do so seems a bit much.



If you’re not going to concern yourself with people‘s emotional connections with a product, positive and negative, you’re not listening to your market.


----------



## niklinna

Oh, come on. _Everything_ is an attack on 5E.


----------



## Deset Gled

niklinna said:


> Oh, come on. _Everything_ is an attack on 5E.




I also have come to understand that no one, literally no person ever in all of history, likes 5e.


----------



## CleverNickName

Well according to the same eleven people on EN World, 5th Edition D&D really isn't the best-selling edition of the game of all time.  It isn't the most widely-played edition either, and it certainly isn't outselling all other tabletop RPGs on the market _combined._  Nope.  No sir.  It's a hot unplayable mess and nobody likes it, says those same eleven people.


----------



## Hussar

Gradine said:


> the feelings being communicated through them are completely subjective and valid.



But, the only feeling being communicated is "I don't like this".  Which is fine and dandy, but, not really a very good reason for why everyone else should also dislike it and it shouldn't be put on pizza.


----------



## niklinna

Wait I thought everybody loved it and it was best just like jm.


----------



## Hussar

billd91 said:


> If you’re not going to concern yourself with people‘s emotional connections with a product, positive and negative, you’re not listening to your market.



But how many?  

I'm not being facetious here.  How many people's emotional connections with a product do I have to listen to?  

And what if those emotional connections are tied to things that I really don't feel comfortable putting in my product?  

Frankly, people having emotional connections to a product is largely the problem here.  If someone's emotional connection to pineapple pizza is so strong that they will DEMAND that no pizza restaurant, including the ones they don't even eat at EVER sell pineapple on pizza, then, well, those folks can go soak their heads.  

"I don't like it" is perfectly fine.  "I don't like it so I don't eat it" is also perfectly fine.  "I don't like it so YOU can't eat it" is never fine.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Hussar said:


> But how many?
> 
> I'm not being facetious here.  How many people's emotional connections with a product do I have to listen to?
> 
> And what if those emotional connections are tied to things that I really don't feel comfortable putting in my product?
> 
> Frankly, people having emotional connections to a product is largely the problem here.  If someone's emotional connection to pineapple pizza is so strong that they will DEMAND that no pizza restaurant, including the ones they don't even eat at EVER sell pineapple on pizza, then, well, those folks can go soak their heads.
> 
> "I don't like it" is perfectly fine.  "I don't like it so I don't eat it" is also perfectly fine.  "I don't like it so YOU can't eat it" is never fine.



4e, Vistani, Noble Savage Kit, Kender, Orcs, Vampire the Masquerade, Drow, Orcs of Thar, Half-Orcs, Oriental Adventures...etc
Some people have emotional connections with some or all of these _products_. Many of us had to listen to persons who had emotional connections. If I recall correctly you were crusading for some of these emotional connections.

Emotional connections with a product is a thing.


----------



## Hussar

AnotherGuy said:


> 4e, Vistani, Noble Savage Kit, Kender, Orcs, Vampire the Masquerade, Drow, Orcs of Thar, Half-Orcs, Oriental Adventures...etc
> Some people have emotional connections with some or all of these _products_. Many of us had to listen to persons who had emotional connections. If I recall correctly you were crusading for some of these emotional connections.
> 
> Emotional connections with a product is a thing.



I think you have me confused with someone else.  I've crusaded some of these issues, true, but, rarely from the position of "I hate this so you shouldn't play it."  

I can honestly say that I don't really have an emotional connection with anything D&D other than I find it a fun thing that I do.  About the only emotion I generally feel is a large heaping of annoyance at watching people constantly, and consistently, take large steaming dumps about games they don't even play.

It's why I avoid a lot of genre stuff anymore to be honest.  I just cannot handle the screaming, frothing of the mouth, constant negativity surrounding any fandom.  I know that it's only a tiny slice of the fandom, but, it's kinda like a swimming pool.  Even though there is only one turd in the pool, I still won't swim in it.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Hussar said:


> I think you have me confused with someone else.  I've crusaded some of these issues, true, but, rarely from the position of "I hate this so you shouldn't play it."



True, I didn't mean it that you've told people not to play something. Only from the perspective that emotional connection to products exists a lot in this hobby (at least on Enworld or online I should say). Which is what @billd91 was saying that one needs to listen to their market.


Hussar said:


> I can honestly say that I don't really have an emotional connection with anything D&D other than I find it a fun thing that I do.  About the only emotion I generally feel is a large heaping of annoyance at watching people constantly, and consistently, take large steaming dumps about games they don't even play.



There are people who are also quite subtle in their ways of taking large steaming dumps by continuously starting long engaging threads with seemingly an innocent question only to advertise, with their constant thumbs-upping cohorts, their brand of playstyle is _superior. _At least with the shouters, their position is clear from the outset, they do not hide behind niceties.


Hussar said:


> It's why I avoid a lot of genre stuff anymore to be honest.  I just cannot handle the screaming, frothing of the mouth, constant negativity surrounding any fandom.  I know that it's only a tiny slice of the fandom, but, it's kinda like a swimming pool.  Even though there is only one turd in the pool, I still won't swim in it.



This is tricky because we all belong to some degree to some fandom - whether it be a particular RPG setting, particular fantasy or sci-fi series, particular set of movies. It is fair to say we have all been disappointed at some stage. The key is not to scream and froth, but rather quietly cry in the corner bitterly unhappy for what has become of one's beloved product. I kid.


----------



## billd91

Hussar said:


> But how many?
> 
> I'm not being facetious here.  How many people's emotional connections with a product do I have to listen to?
> 
> And what if those emotional connections are tied to things that I really don't feel comfortable putting in my product?
> 
> Frankly, people having emotional connections to a product is largely the problem here.  If someone's emotional connection to pineapple pizza is so strong that they will DEMAND that no pizza restaurant, including the ones they don't even eat at EVER sell pineapple on pizza, then, well, those folks can go soak their heads.
> 
> "I don't like it" is perfectly fine.  "I don't like it so I don't eat it" is also perfectly fine.  "I don't like it so YOU can't eat it" is never fine.



It's about understanding your market. People don't rant for no reason whatsoever. And just because someone or multiple someones out there in the market disagree with those rants and discount them as "factually wrong" or whatever, that doesn't mean they won't have an impact on any product success. Companies would be wise to try to understand those market segments, get an idea how big they are, and then decide how or if they will address them.
It's true there will be some things they can't address. If someone was ranting about New Coke because of an idiosyncratic association with trauma ("when I tried my first sip, I was distracted and stepped out into the road where a kid on a Huffy ran into me, knocked me down, and I lost my two front teeth"), they probably have no way of understanding it. But if people are complaining because Coke sold them on brand identity with their slick marketing over the last decades and changing the formula undermines that identity, then maybe they need to think about it a bit harder. Is it still a small minority? Then maybe they don't need to conform to their rant. But if it's big (and growing), then maybe it indicates the risk of the new direction is a lot higher than its value. And if they're ranting because Coke's efforts are aimed at diversifying its market by including minorities in its advertising (whether racial, religious, sexual, or any other demographic difference) and they're trying to gatekeep, then maybe those complainers are a market segment they *want* to shed.
But if they don't know what they are, how big they are, or, and this is the topic of discussion, *discount their objections cavalierly or defensively* (or myopically by just focusing on product design) they don't know their market and may be putting out a product not enough of it wants to sustain the viability of the product line.


----------



## eyeheartawk

billd91 said:


> If someone was ranting about New Coke



I miss TAB


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AnotherGuy said:


> There are people who are also quite subtle in their ways of taking large steaming dumps by continuously starting long engaging threads with seemingly an innocent question only to advertise, with their constant thumbs-upping cohorts, their brand of playstyle is _superior. _At least with the shouters, their position is clear from the outset, they do not hide behind niceties.




Look, I understand that the thread is about pizza. But I am talking about pizza! And I think that the only proper way to talk about pizza is by using the eating examples from a restaurant I ate at in 2005 that was a knockoff off WD-50 located in Tacoma, Washington. See, the only way to truly understand pizza today is to discuss the 30 course foam meal I ate in 2005!


----------



## payn

Edition churn got you down? Tired of all the frustration? Why not head over and enjoy life a bit with songs in Payn's Music league?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Edition churn got you down? Tired of all the frustration? Why not head over and enjoy life a bit with songs in Payn's Music league?




Sorry. I only use Spotify for my fraudulent Dalmatian business.


----------



## CleverNickName

eyeheartawk said:


> I miss TAB



This is just BadWrongDrPepper, isn't it?





(I also miss Tab.)


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> This is just BadWrongDrPepper, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I also miss Tab.)



No, that's Pibb. 

(I also vastly prefer Mr. Pibb to Dr. Pepper)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> No, that's Pibb.
> 
> (I also vastly prefer Mr. Pibb to Dr. Pepper)




Me too.

I mean, let's face it. Mr. Pibb is not nearly as pretentious as "Dr." Pepper. Did you know that Dr. Pepper isn't even a medical doctor? That's right- Pepper got his doctorate in Creative Writing and Literature. I totally respect the work he put in, but making everyone call him Doctor? At poker night? 

A little pretentious. I'm going to hang out with Pibb.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Me too.
> 
> I mean, let's face it. Mr. Pibb is not nearly as pretentious as "Dr." Pepper. Did you know that Dr. Pepper isn't even a medical doctor? That's right- Pepper got his doctorate in Creative Writing and Literature. I totally respect the work he put in, but making everyone call him Doctor? At poker night?
> 
> A little pretentious. I'm going to hang out with Pibb.



Is Royal Crown even a prince?


----------



## RealAlHazred

But which of them goes well with Locust Pepponi Pizza?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Is Royal Crown even a prince?




Gotta say, I think that there is a lot of puffery in the carbonated sugar water field.

I once drank 28 bottles of Cheerwine ... and I didn't get drunk.

I also wasn't very cheerful. Honestly .... far, far .... FAR from it.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> If you’re not going to concern yourself with people‘s emotional connections with a product, positive and negative, you’re not listening to your market.




If you are going to concern yourself with _every_ emotional connection, you will be paralyzed, as many of them are mutually exclusive.  Choices must be made.


----------



## CleverNickName

RealAlHazred said:


> But which of them goes well with Locust Pepponi Pizza?



Stop trying to derail this thread with ANOTHER argument about Dark Sun.


----------



## CleverNickName

If your Tesla gets stolen, shouldn't it be called an Edison?


----------



## Mercurius

eyeheartawk said:


> No, that's Pibb.
> 
> (I also *vastly* prefer Mr. Pibb to Dr. Pepper)



Vastly? I did not know there was vastness (or vastitude?) between Dr Pepper and Mr Pibb. Learn something new every day, I guess.

(or rather, a reminder that colloquial exaggeration is a thing)


----------



## Mercurius

Hussar said:


> It's why I avoid a lot of genre stuff anymore to be honest.  I just cannot handle the screaming, frothing of the mouth, constant negativity surrounding any fandom.  I know that it's only a tiny slice of the fandom, but, it's kinda like a swimming pool.  Even though there is only one turd in the pool, I still won't swim in it.



I hear you, at least in terms of how "fandom" is almost always tediously rife with over-serious unpleasantness, though would broaden it a bit. It isn't just the negative stuff, but the common castigation and equation of any criticism with "toxicity." Toxic has become one of those catch-words that is enormously overused these days - along with narcissism, gaslighting, grifting, problematic, etc etc. These terms are often used as ways to discredit any view that doesn't jive with the view of one's own allegiance.

I also tend to think, perhaps rather cynically, that corporations and the media machine in general, tend to hype up controversy as a means to get our attention (even negative attention is better than no attention, because the name of the game is views and clicks). So in a way, no matter which side of any issue we're on, we're all being duped, because we're all giving "them" our attention. I can't remember who coined the phrase, but in reference to social and online media, it is an "attention economy." 

I sometimes find myself feeling a sense of bemused self-loathing when I spend hours reading about some online controversy that could have been spent reading a good book or creating art or contemplating the mysteries of life.


----------



## CleverNickName

Mercurius said:


> (or rather, a reminder that colloquial exaggeration is a thing)



Seriously.  Did you know that the Wizard class is both a boring, pitifully underpowered character AND a game-breaking demigod?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mercurius said:


> Vastly? I did not know there was vastness (or vastitude?) between Dr Pepper and Mr Pibb. Learn something new every day, I guess.
> 
> (or rather, a reminder that colloquial exaggeration is a thing)



Yeah, the most forward flavor of Dr. Pepper is prune and the most forward flavor of Pibb is cherry. So, for me, vastly.


----------



## Mercurius

CleverNickName said:


> Seriously.  Did you know that the Wizard class is both a boring, pitifully underpowered character AND a game-breaking demigod?



My favorite, if only because it is so _vastly _overused is, "I couldn't disagree with you more...."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> I know that it's only a tiny slice of the fandom, but, it's kinda like a swimming pool.  Even though there is only one turd in the pool, I still won't swim in it.




I hear ya! Sometimes you need that entire pool scrubbed, disinfected, AND sterilized. 

But sometimes ....







It's no big deal.


----------



## Mercurius

eyeheartawk said:


> Yeah, the most forward flavor of Dr. Pepper is prune and the most forward flavor of Pibb is cherry. So, for me, vastly.



Your palate for carbonated sugar beverages is evidently _vastly _more refined than mine.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mercurius said:


> You palate for carbonated sugar beverages is evidently _vastly _more refined than mine.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Yeah, the most forward flavor of Dr. Pepper is prune and the most forward flavor of Pibb is cherry. So, for me, vastly.


----------



## niklinna

CleverNickName said:


> Seriously.  Did you know that the Wizard class is both a boring, pitifully underpowered character AND a game-breaking demigod?



Well it depends on which subclass you take. And what level your wizard is. And who else is in your party. And....


----------



## niklinna

payn said:


>



Expertise++ in Intimidation.


----------



## CleverNickName

I don't know who needs to hear this, but your D&D wizard isn't Gandalf.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I don't know who needs to hear this, but your D&D wizard isn't Gandalf.




That's right! Honestly, it's been all downhill since they ditched the Magic User name.

Really, they should have kept that nomenclature for all the classes! Here's my updated, 5e classes by way of OD&D (with some modern revamping)-

Conan Wannabe
Annoying Brah
Deities & Demidudes
Hippy
Fighting Person
I Know Kung Fu
Smitey McSmiteFace
Call Me Aragorn
Stealy Dan
Natural Magic User
Faustian Bargainer
Magic User
Tool User

Now that you see it ... you want it. You know you want it.


----------



## CleverNickName

You misspelled Legolas, but otherwise?  No notes.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> That's right! Honestly, it's been all downhill since they ditched the Magic User name.
> 
> Really, they should have kept that nomenclature for all the classes! Here's my updated, 5e classes by way of OD&D (with some modern revamping)-
> 
> Conan Wannabe
> Annoying Brah
> Deities & Demidudes
> Hippy
> Fighting Person
> I Know Kung Fu
> Smitey McSmiteFace
> Call Me Aragorn
> Stealy Dan
> Natural Magic User
> Faustian Bargainer
> Magic User
> Tool User
> 
> Now that you see it ... you want it. You know you want it.



What about edgier Drizzt?


----------



## niklinna

CleverNickName said:


> I don't know who needs to hear this, but your D&D wizard isn't Gandalf.



Yeah, my wizard can actually cast spells!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> What about edgier Drizzt?




_Drow, drow
Can't be edgier than Drizzt
Drow, drow
Sliced with two scimitars makes you bleed
Drow, I am good and misunderstood
If Bruenor knew how misery loved me_

-The lyrics to a previously unreleased Fall Out Boy demo


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> I don't know who needs to hear this, but your D&D wizard isn't Gandalf.




 Yes he is - I wrote in Gandalf in the space that said Name. What do you mean my wizard can't dual-wield a sword and a staff??  Of course he can - it was in the movies.


----------



## niklinna

Mad_Jack said:


> Yes he is - I wrote in Gandalf in the space that said Name. What do you mean my wizard can't dual-wield a sword and a staff??  Of course he can - it was in the movies.



He wasn't wielding them, he was just carrying them...for...someone....


----------



## trappedslider

Pun pun will never die! (and outside of DM interference he never will technically)


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> This is just BadWrongDrPepper, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I also miss Tab.)



Well New Coke was just flat Pepsi. Not bad if you like flat Pepsi.

I miss Fresca. (Grapefuit juice messes with one of my meds.)


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> Pun pun will never die! (and outside of DM interference he never will technically)




 I never understood how some people can look at an intentional attempt to break the system by pushing it past the limits of all absurdity in a particular corner case and declare that because someone can intentionally try to break the system that the system in its entirety is broken.
Clearly, they've never seen a Roadrunner cartoon.


----------



## niklinna

Mad_Jack said:


> I never understood how some people can look at an intentional attempt to break the system by pushing it past the limits of all absurdity in a particular corner case and declare that because someone can intentionally try to break the system that the system in its entirety is broken.
> Clearly, they've never seen a Roadrunner cartoon.



How DARE you claim that 5e isn't...oh, wait, never mind.


----------



## CleverNickName

True story:  I remember back when my gaming group was debating whether to switch to Pathfinder or 4th Edition.  One of the arguments presented against Pathfinder (or any other 3.5E ruleset), for some reason, was PunPun.

After the player finished his fifteen-minute long TED Talk about how to build a PunPun character, and walked us through all of the different cherry-picked hoops one would have to jump through in order to make that happen, he concluded with "...and that's why the third-edition rules are completely broken.  I say we switch to 4th Edition."

There was a pause.  Then one of the other players at the table deadpanned "Uh, cool story bro." and we all laughed.

In the end, our DM decided that we would go with Pathfinder, since we were already familiar with the rules and he didn't want to deal with having to learn a new game system and purchase new books.  It had nothing to do with how "broken" the system was or wasn't; the PunPun argument was defeated by price tags and learning curves.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Ryujin said:


> Well New Coke was just flat Pepsi. Not bad if you like flat Pepsi.
> 
> I miss Fresca. (Grapefuit juice messes with one of my meds.)



I love Fresca! 

It's one of the things that makes me an old man. 

Once I believe that soup is a meal it will signal the completion to grandpa simpson.


----------



## CleverNickName

Depends on the soup, doesn't it?  I've had bowls of ramen that would put Thanksgiving Dinner to shame.


----------



## payn

I think The Deep said it best when it comes to Fresca.


----------



## niklinna

eyeheartawk said:


> I love Fresca!
> 
> It's one of the things that makes me an old man.
> 
> Once I believe that soup is a meal it will signal the completion to grandpa simpson.



Don't forget to yell at a cloud.

And remember, soup (not a meal) is different from stew (definitely a meal).


----------



## Mad_Jack

Shred some chicken and dump it in a bowl of ramen with a can of corn and some chopped onion. Good stuff.

 Fresca wasn't bad. It just wasn't particularly awesome, either.

Faygo, on the other hand... It's one of the most convincing reasons people thought the Insane Clown Posse were actually the Antichrist.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Depends on the soup, doesn't it?  I've had bowls of ramen that would put Thanksgiving Dinner to shame.




Ramen?

_Un-Pho-kin' unbelievable. _


----------



## CleverNickName

Mmmm, pho'.




I guess I know what I'm getting for lunch now.


----------



## Ryujin

niklinna said:


> Don't forget to yell at a cloud.
> 
> And remember, soup (not a meal) is different from stew (definitely a meal).



But what about Chunky, the soup that eats like a meal?


----------



## payn

I had some Hibachi over the weekend that was outstanding. I also laughed as my brothers and their wives didn't realize I ordered our Tako Yaki roulette style.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Depends on the soup, doesn't it?  I've had bowls of ramen that would put Thanksgiving Dinner to shame.
> 
> View attachment 262070




Is the Pumpkin or Sweet Potato pie at the bottom?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Is the Pumpkin or Sweet Potato pie at the bottom?




It's probably Sweet Potato and Kale (pizza) Pie at the bottom. 

You know, for people that deny the existence of puppies and kittens and rainbows and happiness.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I have had kale prepared, like, ten different ways and it has been terrible every single time. In what context is kale better than spinach in any application?


----------



## payn

"_think of the newbs_" is back in fashion.


----------



## Cadence

To be fair, the TSR-S was launched at the Geneva International Auto Show...



			https://zenvoautomotive.com/tsr-s/


----------



## CleverNickName

eyeheartawk said:


> I have had kale prepared, like, ten different ways and it has been terrible every single time. In what context is kale better than spinach in any application?



I think the key is to embrace their differences, rather than trying to force any similarities. 

This is true for both leafy greens and roleplaying games.


----------



## niklinna

eyeheartawk said:


> I have had kale prepared, like, ten different ways and it has been terrible every single time. In what context is kale better than spinach in any application?



Kale keeps a bit longer in the fridge.

It can work better than spinach in smoothies, if you're into that sort of thing.

I like kale actually, but then I like brown rice and whole-grain bread too. (I also like white rice and refined-flour bread.)


----------



## niklinna

CleverNickName said:


> I think the key is to embrace their differences, rather than trying to force any similarities.
> 
> This is true for both leafy greens and roleplaying games.



I love carob! But it is NOT chocolate and don't you dare try to pass it off as such.


----------



## Ryujin

niklinna said:


> Kale keeps a bit longer in the fridge.
> 
> It can work better than spinach in smoothies, if you're into that sort of thing.
> 
> I like kale actually, but then I like brown rice and whole-grain bread too. (I also like white rice and refined-flour bread.)



Have you tried Basmati Rice?


----------



## CleverNickName

niklinna said:


> I love carob! But it is NOT chocolate and don't you dare try to pass it off as such.



Exactly!  As 5th Edition D&D is to OSR, so is chocolate to carob.  Both are excellent on their own; why choose between them (or worse, try to mix them)?  

You really can have both!


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Is the Pumpkin or Sweet Potato pie at the bottom?



Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of how awesome that bowl of ramen is.


----------



## darjr

Arg. Can’t keep up.

Dr. Pepper is barbecue sprite.

Country music sings to the heart, only problem is it has to go through your ears first.


----------



## el-remmen

Anyone know what happened to @South by Southwest? I see his name is struckthrough. . .


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of how awesome that bowl of ramen is.



The card shop that we played MtG at pre-Covid had a Noodle and Taco shop across the parking lot.  With the shop closed it's not nearby at mealtime or late night snack time nearly as often :-(


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> Anyone know what happened to @South by Southwest? I see his name is struckthrough. . .



Had a mod-enforced vacation for a week due to reception of a comment in another thread.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Had a mod-enforced vacation for a week due to reception of a comment in another thread.



Which is precisely why we have _this_ thread.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> I miss Fresca.




Yah.  Artificial sweeteners are apparently a migraine trigger for me.

Once, years ago, at a con, my wife and I were sitting around with friends.  She was drinking a Fresca and I said something funny at just the wrong moment, and she inhaled Fresca.  Not "it went up her nose" snarfing, but actual inhaling it into her lungs.

I can categorically inform everyone here that inhalation is _NOT_ a way to enjoy Fresca.  You will _NOT_ enjoy it, at all.


----------



## niklinna

Ryujin said:


> Have you tried Basmati Rice?



I have both white and brown basmati rice in my pantry!  I like jasmine best but I gotta get through the basmati before I buy more.


----------



## niklinna

Choco-covered carob, or vice versa, is quite a treat.


CleverNickName said:


> Exactly!  As 5th Edition D&D is to OSR, so is chocolate to carob.  Both are excellent on their own; why choose between them (or worse, try to mix them)?
> 
> You really can have both!



vc


----------



## RealAlHazred

Generally I find there are two kinds of creative types: those who agree with my stereotypes, and those who are terribly, terribly wrong.


----------



## niklinna

Cadence said:


> Had a mod-enforced vacation for a week due to reception of a comment in another thread.



I hope he's enjoying his Snickers. That almost counts as chocolate, even. But not carob.


----------



## CleverNickName

RealAlHazred said:


> Generally I find there are two kinds of creative types: those who agree with my stereotypes, and those who are terribly, terribly wrong.


----------



## Ryujin

niklinna said:


> I hope he's enjoying his Snickers. That almost counts as chocolate, even. But not carob.



Supposedly carob is healthier for you than chocolate, thereby proving beyond doubt that it isn't as good.


----------



## darjr

Carbs, eh, they’re ok


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Supposedly carob is healthier for you than chocolate, thereby proving beyond doubt that it isn't as good.




 When I was younger, I ate a lot of carob because it didn't set off my chocolate allergy.




eyeheartawk said:


> I have had kale prepared, like, ten different ways and it has been terrible every single time. In what context is kale better than spinach in any application?




 Colcannon





 The Irish didn't invent mashed potatoes. Or bacon.
Bacon mashed potatoes? Yeah, that was us...


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> When I was younger, I ate a lot of carob because it didn't set off my chocolate allergy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colcannon
> 
> View attachment 262082
> 
> The Irish didn't invent mashed potatoes. Or bacon.
> Bacon mashed potatoes? Yeah, that was us...



Almost time to cook up a pound of bacon and a 3 egg omelette for dinner. Pray for me.


----------



## niklinna

Mad_Jack said:


> When I was younger, I ate a lot of carob because it didn't set off my chocolate allergy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colcannon
> 
> View attachment 262082
> 
> The Irish didn't invent mashed potatoes. Or bacon.
> Bacon mashed potatoes? Yeah, that was us...



I do like colcannon better with kale than with spinach. Adds a nice chewiness. Spinach just makes it a bit runny. Which is fine if you like that! But I prefer a good thick texture to my mashed potatoes.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> True story:  I remember back when my gaming group was debating whether to switch to Pathfinder or 4th Edition.  One of the arguments presented against Pathfinder (or any other 3.5E ruleset), for some reason, was PunPun.
> 
> After the player finished his fifteen-minute long TED Talk about how to build a PunPun character, and walked us through all of the different cherry-picked hoops one would have to jump through in order to make that happen, he concluded with "...and that's why the third-edition rules are completely broken.  I say we switch to 4th Edition."
> 
> There was a pause.  Then one of the other players at the table deadpanned "Uh, cool story bro." and we all laughed.



Best Punpun story ever.


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> I think The Deep said it best when it comes to Fresca.


----------



## Mad_Jack

niklinna said:


> I do like colcannon better with kale than with spinach. Adds a nice chewiness. Spinach just makes it a bit runny. Which is fine if you like that! But I prefer a good thick texture to my mashed potatoes.




 I do mine with kale, onions and bacon.

 One of the nice things about living in Connecticut is that it's pretty damn easy to source good local produce - even beyond farm coops and local vegetable stands, you can often find folks who just put out a table full of corn or other veggies (or fruit) near the roadside with a jar to leave money in...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> * One of the nice things about living in Connecticut is that it's pretty damn easy to source good local produce* - even beyond farm coops and local vegetable stands, you can often find folks who just put out a table full of corn or other veggies (or fruit) near the roadside with a jar to leave money in...




Californians say, "Wha........? Show me your Connecticut Satsumas."


----------



## Cadence

I mean, that would solve the problem of one pizzeria dominating the local scene... just like it briefly did.last.time. So why not.


----------



## trappedslider

I got bored so I attempted to make Jennifer Lawrence in CP77


Spoiler


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> I got bored so I attempted to make Jennifer Lawrence in CP77



I attempted to make Mr. Bean in CP77, to recreate the below video, but you can't make the face round enough.


----------



## el-remmen

Tomorrow is my first scheduled post-baby D&D session.  We are aiming for three hours (to fit between feedings - we usually play for 5) and my MiL is coming over to help my wife during that time. This group is all close friends, so it is also an excuse for them to meet the baby, so if we don't get that much gaming done, that's fine. The point is to have some social interaction and keep the campaign momentum going. Oh and to see how sleep deprivation effects my DMing what is likely going to be one of the most difficult combat encounters this group has ever had.


----------



## prabe

I just saw someone I mostly like and respect take down--at some length--someone else I mostly like and respect. I'm glad I'm not in the middle of *that*.


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> I just saw someone I mostly like and respect take down--at some length--someone else I mostly like and respect. I'm glad I'm not in the middle of *that*.



I had it coming. If not for that, then for something else...


----------



## Malmuria

What if I just turn the other thread _into_ this thread??  Would world peace be achievable?


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> What if I just turn the other thread _into_ this thread??  Would world peace be achievable?



No, it would just change peace into pizza.


----------



## niklinna

payn said:


> No, it would just change peace into pizza.



With pineapple.


----------



## Malmuria

Imagine no pineapples
I wonder if you can
Imagine all the people...
sharing the whole pie


----------



## payn

niklinna said:


> With pineapple.



That’s it, imma having peace with pineapple, Canadian bacon, and banana peppers for dinner.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Malmuria said:


> What if I just turn the other thread _into_ this thread??  Would world peace be achievable?




 Nah, we'd just start arguing over whirled peas as a pizza topping.


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> Nah, we'd just start arguing over whirled peas as a pizza topping.



Whats so funny about peas, love, and understanding?


----------



## niklinna

payn said:


> Whats so funny about peas, love, and understanding?



Man I've seen some unappetizing-looking pizzas but that one...whoa.

Also where's the pineapple? Not that it would help that pizza.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Whats so funny about peas, love, and understanding?



Did someone pour marshmallow fluff on that pizza? Honestly, I think a pizza that isn't at least a little browned by the heat of baking doesn't look right.


----------



## payn

Wow, I guess nobody out pizzas the hut for these guys.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Whats so funny about peas, love, and understanding?



I'd eat it.


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> I'd eat it.




 I'd try a piece, assuming that white stuff is cheese. Those had better be fresh peas, though...


----------



## payn

Little surprised at the low cheese knowledge around here. A good solid low moisture motz doesn't melt and burn folks. Neither does goat cheese and many others.

Dont get me wrong, I like that melted toasty cheap motz too, but variety is the spice of life!


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Did someone pour marshmallow fluff on that pizza?




Nope.  Looks like fresh mozzarella.



billd91 said:


> Honestly, I think a pizza that isn't at least a little browned by the heat of baking doesn't look right.




So, the usual shredded mozzarella is a low-moisture version of the cheese.  

Fresh mozzarella has a lot more moisture in it, so it will melt, but it won't brown until much of that moisture boils away... by which time the crust would be a cinder.


----------



## Deset Gled

When someone uses an absolutely terrible metaphor, how can you tell if the problem is that they don't understand the topic at hand, or that they have no knowledge of the thing they're comparing it to?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Deset Gled said:


> When someone uses an absolutely terrible metaphor, how can you tell if the problem is that they don't understand the topic at hand, or that they have no knowledge of the thing they're comparing it to?




 Look at it from both sides of the metaphor, and see which way makes the least amount of sense? Maybe? No clue...


----------



## Hussar

billd91 said:


> discount their objections cavalierly or defensively



Meh.

Most of the objections are pointless and largely meaningless once you get to the point where people are screaming at the top of their lungs about how X is the worst thing in the world.  It's all review bombing and shouting from rooftops.  Unfortunately, those people poison the well for everyone else.

Don't like a movie?  Cool.  Don't watch it.  Don't like the new TV show?  Great.  There's ten thousand other things to watch.  Don't like the latest splat book for D&D?  Ok, don't use it.

It constantly baffles me how tightly people will latch on to this garbage.  To the point of pissing in everyone else's cornflakes in order to make sure that everyone watches/read/plays whatever they like.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Hussar said:


> It constantly baffles me how tightly people will latch on to this garbage.  To the point of pissing in everyone else's cornflakes in order to make sure that everyone watches/read/plays whatever they like.




 Quite honestly, seeing people rage so vehemently against something often inspires me to go check it out just out of curiosity to see what they're carrying on about, even if it's something I might not have otherwise been interested in...


And on a vaguely related tangent...

 If you're really going to argue about the real-world historical definition of a "polearm", then _if any part of the weapon is a stick and you hit the other guy with the end of it_ technically the damn thing is a "polearm" - but that's _completely irrelevant_ because the feat_ directly specifies which 5E weapons it works with_... 

(And I'm stifling my natural urge to be contrary and start facetiously arguing that a "polearm" should be defined as a weapon traditionally used by the Poles.)


----------



## Cadence

And now I'm imagining a version of the WoD Technocracy that doesn't want hitech and scientific advancement, they just want mundane martials to shine ...


----------



## el-remmen

A response I frequently want to give to some people, but bite my tongue because the mods wouldn't like it and honestly it would not even be all that satisfying even if they didn't care is. "You seem like you'd be better off keeping a blog about your stupid gaming worldview than posting here."

Sometimes, however, I think instead, "I'd be better off keeping a blog about my stupid gaming worldview than posting here."


----------



## el-remmen

That said, I had to be working towards a PhD (and then actually have one) to have the confidence to write about comics and other popular culture (and edit the work of guest writers) on my (award-winning) blog _The Middle Spaces. _I don't remotely have the confidence that I have the necessary baseline knowledge and understanding, or that anyone would care what I have to say about D&D and other games, to actually take the time to develop such a thing.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Time for some things some people may need to hear.

_The Hobbit_ films are not nearly as bad as you think they are, or are being told. We all know it's not _Lord of the Rings_. Get over it.

_Star Wars_ films were never really that good, but I still love the crap out of them and will continue to do so as I please. Besides, the Holiday Special already set the lowest bar so it can't be any worse. Get over it.

Movies should not be treated like comic books stories that go on forever. The MCU should have finished with Endgame. I'm over it.

I need to come out of hiding and start playing games with other people again.


----------



## payn

Folks need to get over telling people to get over it.


----------



## el-remmen

You're wrong.
You're wrong.
You're nearly right.
You're absolutely right.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> You're wrong.
> You're wrong.
> You're nearly right.
> You're absolutely right.



I'll take those odds.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

payn said:


> Folks need to get over telling people to get over it.



I love the irony of that statement!


----------



## Deset Gled

Jacob Lewis said:


> Movies should not be treated like comic books stories that go on forever. The MCU should have finished with Endgame. I'm over it.




The MCU should have ended at Infinity War.


----------



## CleverNickName

Unpopular opinion:  superhero movies are overdone and overrated.  I'm ready for the next Hollywood fad.


----------



## Cadence

Jacob Lewis said:


> Time for some things some people may need to hear.
> 
> _The Hobbit_ films are not nearly as bad as you think they are, or are being told. We all know it's not _Lord of the Rings_. Get over it.
> 
> _Star Wars_ films were never really that good, but I still love the crap out of them and will continue to do so as I please. Besides, the Holiday Special already set the lowest bar so it can't be any worse. Get over it.
> 
> Movies should not be treated like comic books stories that go on forever. The MCU should have finished with Endgame. I'm over it.
> 
> I need to come out of hiding and start playing games with other people again.




My favorite comics have often been  the ones that didn't involve the world ending or a country being taken over or destroyed - but were more about the characters.  And so I am liking a lot of the MCU (TV) stuff they're putting out now that has the smaller scale stories a lot.

I am over people who don't care about stories unless they have the end of the world (or half of it) as the outcome of failure, or need a bad guy who can beat the last bad guy who was tougher than the bad guy before that.

(So, Busiek's Kang Dynasty is one of my least favorite Avengers stories - even though there are a few sub parts I really like).


----------



## Cadence

500+ movies are released in the US each non-pandemic year.  How many of them are super hero ones?  And, unlike RPGs, do any of them require a viewer to have a large regular group of friends buy in before they partake?  Are movies no fun without such a group?  Do we need critical or box office backing before we admit to liking them or want to discuss them?  Do we see a lot less movies (as opposed to TV shows) as a people than we used to?  Does that make us focus only on the tent-pole or big event ones?


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Folks need to get over telling people to get over it.




There's a lot of things folks do, in fact, need to get over.  We are generally talking about _how to pretend to be elves_.  If whatever aspect of this is so important to you that you are willing to treat living people badly, getting over it is probably called for.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Unpopular opinion:  superhero movies are overdone and overrated.  I'm ready for the next Hollywood fad.




They haven't even gotten close to how ubiquitous westerns once were and how long that fad lasted.


----------



## el-remmen

Deset Gled said:


> The MCU should have ended at Infinity War.




I am one of the few people I know that loved Infinity War but hated End Game.

I also loved the Last Jedi and hated Rise of Skywalker.


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> They haven't even gotten close to how ubiquitous westerns once were and how long that fad lasted.



It's not a contest for me.  Both are equally overdone and repetitive, imo.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> It's not a contest for me.  Both are equally overdone and repetitive, imo.




Sure. Sure. I just meant, there is a lot further it can (and likely will) go.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> There's a lot of things folks do, in fact, need to get over.  We are generally talking about _how to pretend to be elves_.  If whatever aspect of this is so important to you that you are willing to treat living people badly, getting over it is probably called for.



So, you cant be critical of things without treating people badly?


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> So, you cant be critical of things without treating people badly?




I'm gonna assume you're playing a character here and don't really think Umbran is suggesting that.


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> So, you cant be critical of things without treating people badly?




It is interesting that you get that out of what I wrote.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I'm gonna assume you're playing a character here and don't really think Umbran is suggesting that.



Nice, since making assumptions about people is the issue.


----------



## Cadence

As long as all of us are wearing our cranky pants today!


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Nice, since making assumptions about people is the issue.




I was trying to be generous.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> As long as all of us are wearing out cranky pants today!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> View attachment 262305


----------



## Deset Gled

el-remmen said:


> I am one of the few people I know that loved Infinity War but hated End Game.
> 
> I also loved the Last Jedi and hated Rise of Skywalker.




I agree with this so much that the "like" button could not stop me from making a "me too" post.


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> View attachment 262305



The beatings will continue until moral improves.


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes, however, I think instead, "I'd be better off keeping a blog about my stupid gaming worldview than posting here."




 I have absolutely no doubt that nobody cares about what I think about D&D. So I keep those thoughts to myself, and only post snark and witty one-liners. This way people like all my posts.




Cadence said:


> As long as all of us are wearing our cranky pants today!




 Dammit, why do I have to wear pants today? I wore them yesterday.





Snarf Zagyg said:


> View attachment 262305


----------



## payn

Just streamed Jurrasic World Domination on Peacock. I'll admit I wasnt super glued to it. I was doing some chores around the house at same time. Every time I stopped to watch people were being chased by dinos. I'm not sure there is even any dialogue in the movie.


----------



## niklinna

payn said:


> Just streamed Jurrasic World Domination on Peacock. I'll admit I wasnt super glued to it. I was doing some chores around the house at same time. Every time I stopped to watch people were being chased by dinos. I'm not sure there is even any dialogue in the movie.



But what were their hit points at?


----------



## payn

niklinna said:


> But what were their hit points at?



You could certainly tell who was a minion.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

It kind of hurts when the most liked post in a thread is written more poorly than any other post in the thread and is also the worst argument.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I have never seen people so determined to not engage in a thought experiment.


----------



## niklinna

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> I have never seen people so determined to not engage in a thought experiment.



Welcome to enworld!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

niklinna said:


> Welcome to enworld!



Should I have a look around?


----------



## niklinna

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Should I have a look around?



By all means! Just don't look too closely or open any cabinets or drawers.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

niklinna said:


> By all means! Just don't look too closely or open any cabinets or drawers.



Got it! 

(I was quoting Welcome to the Internet.)


----------



## niklinna

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Got it!
> 
> (I was quoting Welcome to the Internet.)



And here I was gonna turn it into a Kralnor joke.  LOOK IT OVER.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> As long as all of us are wearing our cranky pants today!



Redundant


----------



## Hussar

Umbran said:


> It is interesting that you get that out of what I wrote.




Oh wow. Talk about misreading. I totally read @payn s comment as making a joke. Never even considered taking it seriously.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hm, this thread title is interesting, let's see what everyone is talkNOPE NEVERMIND BAD IDEA CLOSE BROWSER.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Critical thinking is a skill that more people need to develop.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

CleverNickName said:


> Hm, this thread title is interesting, let's see what everyone is talkNOPE NEVERMIND BAD IDEA CLOSE BROWSER.



The even worse mistake is my habit of thinking "oh, that title didn't seem like something where there was much interesting to say when I first noticed it two days ago, but somehow it now has 300 responses, maybe I should see what all the fuss is about."

I have never once not regretted learning what all the fuss was about.


----------



## prabe

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Should I have a look around?



You may go anywhere you wish--except where the doors are locked, where of course you will not wish to go.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

"It doesn't make sense that they would want to do X and Y when they can just do Y! They don't need to do X!" 

Sir, may I please introduce you to the human race? Because our actions are often nonsensical and self-serving, and eventually someone will choose to take both options even if it hurts other people. 

(I swear, these people either have a much more positive/optimistic view of the real world and our socioeconomic system than I do, or they just don't understand the scientific theory that supports the discussion at hand.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Should I have a look around?




Sure! Look around ....


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Hussar said:


> Oh wow. Talk about misreading. I totally read @payn s comment as making a joke. Never even considered taking it seriously.



This is how I try to approach most comments in THIS thread, even when responding to semi-serious comments I make. It is part of the shenanigans we do to keep our heads level and our minds sane (for the most part). 

Likewise, I don't take comments like @Umbran made to @payn as directed or personal. Whether or not our comments were made in jest, they all have valid points. But we typically drop them here so's not to raise the ire of irrational and hot-tempered denizens of the boards, and prevent ourselves from becoming more of them.


----------



## Umbran

Hussar said:


> Oh wow. Talk about misreading. I totally read @payn s comment as making a joke. Never even considered taking it seriously.




There is nothing in the text that suggests it is a joke.  

This is a problem with snark and sarcasm, folks.  If it fails, it looks really bad.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> There is nothing in the text that suggests it is a joke.
> 
> This is a problem with snark and sarcasm, folks.  If it fails, it looks really bad.




Any bit of comedy that employs satire, irony, or sarcasm in a proper and correct fashion requires that some portion of the audience be confused (or even hurt) by the comedy.

Ambiguity is not a bug, but the central feature of any type comedy that plays with or invokes satire and irony. Simply put, the possibility that a reader can misunderstand the message is necessary to the proper conveyance of the message.

This ambiguity is not a bug - it is the distinguishing feature.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sure! Look around ....



Look around, look around at how
Lucky we are to be alive right now!


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Any bit of comedy that employs satire, irony, or sarcasm in a proper and correct fashion requires that some portion of the audience be confused (or even hurt) by the comedy.
> 
> Ambiguity is not a bug, but the central feature of any type comedy that plays with or invokes satire and irony. Simply put, the possibility that a reader can misunderstand the message is necessary to the proper conveyance of the message.
> 
> This ambiguity is not a bug - it is the distinguishing feature.



We've ... discussed this--and I have no desire to go through that again--but if the possibility of being misunderstood is the distinguishing feature of your comedy, then maybe you shouldn't complain about being misunderstood.

"You" there is general, not personal.


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Any bit of comedy that employs satire, irony, or sarcasm in a proper and correct fashion requires that some portion of the audience be confused (or even hurt) by the comedy.
> 
> Ambiguity is not a bug, but the central feature of any type comedy that plays with or invokes satire and irony. Simply put, the possibility that a reader can misunderstand the message is necessary to the proper conveyance of the message.
> 
> This ambiguity is not a bug - it is the distinguishing feature.



This also covers academic writing and philosophy. The central point of both seems to be intentional inscrutability for the specific purpose of talking down to anyone who's honest enough to admit they don't understand it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> We've ... discussed this--and I have no desire to go through that again--but if the possibility of being misunderstood is the distinguishing feature of your comedy, then maybe you shouldn't complain about being misunderstood.




Sure. A lot of people got all hot and bothered and concerned about all the baby eatin' being proposed.

Can't cure stupid, and can't cater to it. 

The problem isn't humor that is ambiguous; the problem is humorless scolds. IMO.


----------



## el-remmen

overgeeked said:


> This also covers academic writing and philosophy. The central point of both seems to be intentional inscrutability for the specific purpose of talking down to anyone who's honest enough to admit they don't understand it.




I know that some academics can be like this about their work or the work of others, but honest curiosity, inquiry, and confusion is not only part of the scholarly process, but misprisions are often productive. 

In my experience of grad school, when it was positive, it was a group of us sitting around in a seminar trying to collectively parse difficult texts and ideas. I think ascribing _intentional_ inscrutability is a mistake and often a mistake made by those who are confused and too embarrassed to admit it and thus lash out instead.


----------



## CleverNickName

I very nearly posted in that thread, but stopped myself at the last minute.  So basically, I'm a hero.

It was the same old post you've already read, and already dismissed, and will never listen to, no matter how true it is:

Your friends aren't "everybody."  You don't know "everybody," you've never even _met _"everybody."  So when you write something like "everyone hates this" or "nobody uses that rule," you are already wrong.  You need to backspace over whatever profound insight you just typed, and change it to "people I play with" or "in the games I've run" instead.  Because no matter how badly you want it to be otherwise, you are only ever referring to a very small group of people.

TL;DR: stop thinking that you speak for me and my friends.  You don't.  You _can't._


----------



## Benjamin Olson

CleverNickName said:


> Your friends aren't "everybody." You don't know "everybody," you've never even _met _"everybody." So when you write something like "everyone hates this" or "nobody uses that rule," you are already wrong. You need to backspace over whatever profound insight you just typed, and change it to "people I play with" or "in the games I've run" instead. Because no matter how badly you want it to be otherwise, you are only ever referring to a very small group of people.



That's all very valid, but it also seems like it all boils down to needing to throw in some qualifiers of "everybody I know" or "in my experience, everybody". It gets tiring to have to police the extent of every statement you make to repetitively acknowledge the limits of your own experience. But of course, when you don't, the reader often has no way of knowing whether you are simply being uncareful in your language, or whether you are actually being uncareful in your thinking, because one of the central bummers of saying anything online is that you are forever making first impressions.


----------



## el-remmen

There goes the neighborhood.


----------



## CleverNickName

Benjamin Olson said:


> That's all very valid, but it also seems like it all boils down to needing to throw in some qualifiers of "everybody I know" or "in my experience, everybody". It gets tiring to have to police the extent of every statement you make to repetitively acknowledge the limits of your own experience. But of course, when you don't, the reader often has no way of knowing whether you are simply being uncareful in your language, or whether you are actually being uncareful in your thinking, because one of the central bummers of saying anything online is that you are forever making first impressions.



Mostly it's the belief that one person can speak for all gamers everywhere that sticks in my craw.  More often than not, people use terms like "everyone" and "nobody" to inflate a weak argument...to make whatever they write seem more applicable and more important than it is.  It makes me itch.


----------



## Ryujin

Benjamin Olson said:


> That's all very valid, but it also seems like it all boils down to needing to throw in some qualifiers of "everybody I know" or "in my experience, everybody". It gets tiring to have to police the extent of every statement you make to repetitively acknowledge the limits of your own experience. But of course, when you don't, the reader often has no way of knowing whether you are simply being uncareful in your language, or whether you are actually being uncareful in your thinking, because one of the central bummers of saying anything online is that you are forever making first impressions.



The one thing that gets me is when you make a comment and someone responds with something like, "Well, that's just your opinion." Well DUH! Whose opinion would I be using?


----------



## trappedslider

I dislike pedantics


----------



## Malmuria

The 25 page rule: after 25 pages, a thread has typically exhausted most of the arguments and opinions about a given topic, and thus is no longer worth following.

exceptions: threads about pizza, whose meaning is enigmatic and limitless


----------



## Cadence

How am I supposed to trust the opinion of someone who would destroy a perfectly good corned beef sandwich on rye by adding cabbage goo and a mayonnaise concoction.  If they can mess up something that simple, why shouldn't I suspect that their gaming habits are similarly absurd!


 <-_An example of an appropriate use of corned beef._

A quick web-search will find a reputable web-site to back this up entirely!









						Sauerkraut
					






					en.uncyclopedia.co


----------



## CleverNickName

If you don't know how to make a proper Reuben, there's no way I'd trust you to run my D&D table.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> If you don't know *how to make a proper Reuben*, there's no way I'd trust you to run my D&D table.




Step 1.  Apply the Sauerkraut and Dressing appropriately...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> If you don't know how to make a proper Reuben, there's no way I'd trust you to run my D&D table.




You wanna sammie?

Go to Langer’s. MacArthur Park.

Get a 19. 28 if you want them to slip you a little tongue.


----------



## Cadence

From the Omaha Gateway, 3 Mar 1953:




I should warn everyone to not go searching for later articles.  Something seems to have infected the writers after about this time and they actually like them!?!?   Apparently bizarre trends and beliefs predate the internet.


----------



## Cadence

My wife apparently likes both Reubens and just corned beef on rye.  Next we're going to find out that some people like both Trek and Wars,  or multiple ttrpgs, or both country and western.  When will the madness end!


----------



## Hussar

Oh I hate you all. I sooooo miss deli food. Cold meats in this country suck so badly.


----------



## Cadence

Hussar said:


> Oh I hate you all. I sooooo miss deli food. Cold meats in this country suck so badly.




We really need a hug/sympathy/care emoji on here.


----------



## gban007

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sure! Look around ....



Which movie is that from?  Looks like could be my kind of horror movie.


----------



## J.Quondam

gban007 said:


> Which movie is that from?  Looks like could be my kind of horror movie.




I've never seen it, but looks like it's from a movie called Grave Encounters:









						Grave Encounters (2011) - IMDb
					

Grave Encounters: Directed by Colin Minihan, Stuart Ortiz, The Vicious Brothers. With Ben Wilkinson, Sean Rogerson, Ashleigh Gryzko, Merwin Mondesir. For their ghost hunting reality show, a production crew locks themselves inside an abandoned mental hospital that's supposedly haunted - and it...




					www.imdb.com


----------



## gban007

J.Quondam said:


> I've never seen it, but looks like it's from a movie called Grave Encounters:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grave Encounters (2011) - IMDb
> 
> 
> Grave Encounters: Directed by Colin Minihan, Stuart Ortiz, The Vicious Brothers. With Ben Wilkinson, Sean Rogerson, Ashleigh Gryzko, Merwin Mondesir. For their ghost hunting reality show, a production crew locks themselves inside an abandoned mental hospital that's supposedly haunted - and it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.imdb.com



great, thanks!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

gban007 said:


> great, thanks!




The original is good (if you like found footage). The sequels are not and should be avoided.
Hell House LLC is a similar unappreciated gem.


----------



## payn

What do y'all older folks do on your birthdays when nobody really cares anymore?


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> What do y'all older folks do on your birthdays when nobody really cares anymore?








If you got pinged before the message was ready, sorry--I are clumsy in the morning.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> If you got pinged before the message was ready, sorry--I are clumsy in the morning.



Thats what I do everyday.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> What do y'all older folks do on your birthdays when nobody really cares anymore?




Click like a lot on Facebook.  Order myself something that I want that might be a bit more expensive than usually would.  Maybe go on out to eat.  

Happy Birthday if it is! (Or hold on to this a bit until it is if it isn't!).


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Click like a lot on Facebook.  Order myself something that I want that might be a bit more expensive than usually would.  Maybe go on out to eat.
> 
> Happy Birthday if it is! (Or hold on to this a bit until it is if it isn't!).



Its tomorrow, which I have to work but that's no big deal. Just trying to figure out what to do after. Besides Bourbon.

Edit: Maybe I'll try one of them new dill pickle pizzas.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Thats what I do everyday.



Then you're ahead of the game!


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Any bit of comedy that employs satire, irony, or sarcasm in a proper and correct fashion requires that some portion of the audience be confused (or even hurt) by the comedy.




Yes.  So, it pays a great deal to think about when, how, and whether to use such comedy with a particular audience.



Snarf Zagyg said:


> This ambiguity is not a bug - it is the distinguishing feature.




"Bug" is context-dependent, not universal.  Whether a thing is good or bad depends on the when and how.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> What do y'all older folks do on your birthdays when nobody really cares anymore?



Everyone still seems to care?  


I usually try to run D&D during the day and maybe do some patio grilling with friends and loved ones afterwards, if it falls on the weekend (or do it the weekend before or after depending on when it falls in the week). Or might have a board game day. When we still lived in a tiny NY apartment my wife would arrange for a beach day or a trip to the zoo and then we'd get a fancy dinner and meet friends for drinks afterwards.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Yes.  So, it pays a great deal to think about when, how, and whether to use such comedy with a particular audience.
> 
> "Bug" is context-dependent, not universal.  Whether a thing is good or bad depends on the when and how.




We are going to have to agree to disagree on this. It's not context-dependent, here. The very nature of this specific type of comedy is that it _is ambiguous_. 

It's similar to someone saying that they don't like stories with unreliable narrators because they don't know what "really happened." That's fine as a preference, but that preference precludes the entirety of that form. *

Now I will go back to the fundamental point- the best satire, the best irony, the best sarcasm ... it relies on that tension. It doesn't mean you can't critique it for other reasons- bad comedy can be bad for all sorts of reasons. But it does mean that the whole, "Some person didn't get the joke, so it's a bad joke," misses the point entirely when it comes to those specific forms. And again, it's not about knowing your audience. The point is that portion of the audience won't get it (and sometimes ... that is the point).

Or just look at the disparate reactions to Nathan Fiedler's various projects. 





*And this idea of audience reaction should never be used when it comes to art. Look at this-








						Roman Opalka
					

Roman Opalka, painter of infinity, died on August 6th, aged 79




					webcache.googleusercontent.com
				



Some things _need _to come out. Do you think Opalka stayed up at night worrying if people "got it?" Life is weird, and people do things for all sorts of reasons- good, bad, or none at all. Communication is partly about making sure your audience understands your message, but we also forget the other important part; expressing yourself. In the end, the idea that some might not understand what you are communicating is not something that people will worry about. Have I placed acrostics in some posts? Maybe. Was that for you benefit or my own amusement? Hard to say ... don't you think?


----------



## overgeeked

payn said:


> What do y'all older folks do on your birthdays when nobody really cares anymore?



Hang out with the fewer people who actually care. For my most recent birthday my wife and I had my kid and the one brother who’s in town over for food and drinks.


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> We are going to have to agree to disagree on this. It's not context-dependent, here. The very nature of this specific type of comedy is that it _is ambiguous_.
> 
> It's similar to someone saying that they don't like stories with unreliable narrators because they don't know what "really happened." That's fine as a preference, but that preference precludes the entirety of that form. *
> 
> Now I will go back to the fundamental point- the best satire, the best irony, the best sarcasm ... it relies on that tension. It doesn't mean you can't critique it for other reasons- bad comedy can be bad for all sorts of reasons. But it does mean that the whole, "Some person didn't get the joke, so it's a bad joke," misses the point entirely when it comes to those specific forms. And again, it's not about knowing your audience. The point is that portion of the audience won't get it (and sometimes ... that is the point).
> 
> Or just look at the disparate reactions to Nathan Fiedler's various projects.
> 
> *And this idea of audience reaction should never be used when it comes to art. Look at this-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roman Opalka
> 
> 
> Roman Opalka, painter of infinity, died on August 6th, aged 79
> 
> 
> 
> 
> webcache.googleusercontent.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some things _need _to come out. Do you think Opalka stayed up at night worrying if people "got it?" Life is weird, and people do things for all sorts of reasons- good, bad, or none at all. Communication is partly about making sure your audience understands your message, but we also forget the other important part; expressing yourself. In the end, the idea that some might not understand what you are communicating is not something that people will worry about. Have I placed acrostics in some posts? Maybe. Was that for you benefit or my own amusement? Hard to say ... don't you think?



Stephen Colbert’s character on the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. The fact that many of the same people he was parodying actually thought he was on their side made it all the more delicious. That misunderstanding does not somehow change it no longer being a parody.

It’s the distinction between what’s comedy by genre and what individuals find funny. Comedy is a genre where the creator’s intent is to evoke laughter. Whether you personally find something funny or not is entirely subjective. Importantly, you finding something unfunny in no way changes whether the piece is a comedy or not. Your subjective sense of what’s funny doesn’t change the creator’s intent that the piece evokes laughter.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> Stephen Colbert’s character on the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. The fact that many of the same people he was parodying actually thought he was on their side made it all the more delicious. That misunderstanding does not somehow change it no longer being a parody.
> 
> It’s the distinction between what’s comedy by genre and what individuals find funny. Comedy is a genre where the creator’s intent is to evoke laughter. Whether you personally find something funny or not is entirely subjective. Importantly, you finding something unfunny in no way changes whether the piece is a comedy or not. Your subjective sense of what’s funny doesn’t change the creator’s intent that the piece evokes laughter.




There can be a distinction between what "most people" find funny, and what people that really work at comedy find funny. I am reminded that (for example) there was a time when Dane Cook was wildly popular with large numbers of people, but was not considered a great comedian by people who really knew comedy (like the difference between Thomas Kinkade and Anselm Kiefer, or James Patterson and Haruki Murakami).

On the other hand, there are those like Norm MacDonald, Dave Attell, Colin Quinn, Bill Burr et al. who are (or were ... sigh) "comedian's comedians" who may not have the same wide reputation with the general public, but are respected for their craft by people who know.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There can be a distinction between what "most people" find funny, and what people that really work at comedy find funny. I am reminded that (for example) there was a time when Dane Cook was wildly popular with large numbers of people, but was not considered a great comedian by people who really knew comedy (like the difference between Thomas Kinkade and Anselm Kiefer, or James Patterson and Haruki Murakami).
> 
> On the other hand, there are those like Norm MacDonald, Dave Attell, Colin Quinn, Bill Burr et al. who are (or were ... sigh) "comedian's comedians" who may not have the same wide reputation with the general public, but are respected for their craft by people who know.



Oh, I haven't heard any Dave Attell standup in ages. I always liked Colin Quinn too, but always seemed like a sore thumb on SNL.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Oh, I haven't heard any Dave Attell standup in ages. I always liked Colin Quinn too, but always seemed like a sore thumb on SNL.




Oh, he is still touring!









						DaveAttell.com
					






					daveattell.com


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There can be a distinction between what "most people" find funny, and what people that really work at comedy find funny. I am reminded that (for example) there was a time when Dane Cook was wildly popular with large numbers of people, but was not considered a great comedian by people who really knew comedy (like the difference between Thomas Kinkade and Anselm Kiefer, or James Patterson and Haruki Murakami).
> 
> On the other hand, there are those like Norm MacDonald, Dave Attell, Colin Quinn, Bill Burr et al. who are (or were ... sigh) "comedian's comedians" who may not have the same wide reputation with the general public, but are respected for their craft by people who know.



Right. Comedians study comedy so they can see most jokes coming a mile away. When a comedian goes for the obvious punchline, they’re a hack. But hacks can be wildly popular for a time. When a comedian goes for the subtler punchline, they’re a good comic. When a comedian goes for the punchline only other comics would appreciate, they’re a comedian’s comedian.

Look at Norm MacDonald’s shaggy dog stories in interviews. If the interviewer isn’t a comic, they stare blankly. If the interviewer is a comic, they laugh the whole time.

Also see Gilbert Gottfried’s rendition of the Aristocrats joke at the post-9/11 roast of Hugh Hefner and the subsequent documentary about it. The comics on stage start laughing as soon as Gilbert starts with the joke because they know what’s coming (hint: everyone), while the non-comedians are horrified until the joke really gets going.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> What do y'all older folks do on your birthdays when nobody really cares anymore?



For a while I would invite a few close friends out for dinner, pay for it, and not tell them the reason for the gathering.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Stephen Colbert’s character on the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. The fact that many of the same people he was parodying actually thought he was on their side made it all the more delicious. That misunderstanding does not somehow change it no longer being a parody.



"Poe's Law" in action.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> Look at Norm MacDonald’s shaggy dog stories in interviews. If the interviewer isn’t a comic, they stare blankly. If the interviewer is a comic, they laugh the whole time.




I always thought it was telling that Norm MacDonald thought the closest he ever came to the perfect joke was the Lyle Lovett one ....



Spoiler



Julia Roberts told reporters this week that her marriage to Lyle Lovett has been over for some time. The key moment, she said, came when she realized that she was Julia Roberts and that she was married to Lyle Lovett.



And the reason?



Spoiler



The setup _is_ the punchline.



Oh, and this....


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> We are going to have to agree to disagree on this. It's not context-dependent, here. The very nature of this specific type of comedy is that it _is ambiguous_.
> 
> It's similar to someone saying that they don't like stories with unreliable narrators because they don't know what "really happened." That's fine as a preference, but that preference precludes the entirety of that form. *
> 
> Now I will go back to the fundamental point- the best satire, the best irony, the best sarcasm ... it relies on that tension. It doesn't mean you can't critique it for other reasons- bad comedy can be bad for all sorts of reasons. But it does mean that the whole, "Some person didn't get the joke, so it's a bad joke," misses the point entirely when it comes to those specific forms. And again, it's not about knowing your audience. The point is that portion of the audience won't get it (and sometimes ... that is the point).
> 
> Or just look at the disparate reactions to Nathan Fiedler's various projects.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *And this idea of audience reaction should never be used when it comes to art. Look at this-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roman Opalka
> 
> 
> Roman Opalka, painter of infinity, died on August 6th, aged 79
> 
> 
> 
> 
> webcache.googleusercontent.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some things _need _to come out. Do you think Opalka stayed up at night worrying if people "got it?" Life is weird, and people do things for all sorts of reasons- good, bad, or none at all. Communication is partly about making sure your audience understands your message, but we also forget the other important part; expressing yourself. In the end, the idea that some might not understand what you are communicating is not something that people will worry about. Have I placed acrostics in some posts? Maybe. Was that for you benefit or my own amusement? Hard to say ... don't you think?



"If you have to stop and explain the joke then it ruins the delivery, and you're likely playing to the wrong audience." - Caligula


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I always thought it was telling that Norm MacDonald thought the closest he ever came to the perfect joke was the Lyle Lovett one ....
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Julia Roberts told reporters this week that her marriage to Lyle Lovett has been over for some time. The key moment, she said, came when she realized that she was Julia Roberts and that she was married to Lyle Lovett.
> 
> 
> 
> And the reason?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The setup _is_ the punchline.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and this....



lol, I remember this episode!


----------



## darjr

Oh?! You’re constantly refreshing the page too.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> The 25 page rule: after 25 pages, a thread has typically exhausted most of the arguments and opinions about a given topic, and thus is no longer worth following.
> 
> exceptions: threads about pizza, whose meaning is enigmatic and limitless




All threads must eventually die in one of three ways-

1. Disinterest.
2. Too much interest (thread lock).
3. Pizza.

Of the three, pizza is always the preferred option.


----------



## payn

So, im thinking for tomorrow night I will go with a shrimp, sausage, and crawfish boil and a side of hushpuppies. Was it down with a bottle of Pinot Grigio.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Dearly beloved
We are gathered here today
To get through this thing called "life"
Electric word, life
It means forever and that's a mighty long time
But I'm here to tell you there's something else
Payn's Birthday

A day of never ending happiness
You can always drink the wine, day or night

So when you write up that comment on this website
You know the one, 'bout how pineapple pizza is alright
Instead of asking Payn how much of that wine is left
Ask him how you can be more kind, babe
'Cause in this life
Things are much harder than on Payn's Birthday
In this life
You're on your own

And if an RPG theory thread tries to bring you down
Go crazy (Punch a higher floor)
Whoo


----------



## payn




----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> So, im thinking for tomorrow night I will go with a shrimp, sausage, and crawfish boil and a side of hushpuppies. Was it down with a bottle of Pinot Grigio.




 You may want to drink the wine while eating, rather than wait til the end of the meal to chug the whole thing...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

@payn

You might be a white wine and shrimp boy, but I'm all about the sloppy steaks ...



Spoiler: LANGUAGE


----------



## CleverNickName

"Have you considered that... maybe... you might be... incorrect about that?"

"ABSOLUTELY NOT, that is IMPOSSIBLE  and I can't even listen to you anymore."


----------



## TwoSix

payn said:


> Its tomorrow, which I have to work but that's no big deal. Just trying to figure out what to do after. Besides Bourbon.



As an older birthday twin, I plan on doing just what I normally do, but feel less guilty about it.


----------



## TwoSix

Snarf Zagyg said:


> @payn
> 
> You might be a white wine and shrimp boy, but I'm all about the sloppy steaks ...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: LANGUAGE



Oh man, I could fill up a whole thread with I Think You Should Leave quotes.  Love that show.


----------



## payn

TwoSix said:


> As an older birthday twin, I plan on doing just what I normally do, but feel less guilty about it.



Shrimp and white wine?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

(It's my birthday today. Apparently September birthdays are really common.)


----------



## TwoSix

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> (It's my birthday today. Apparently September birthdays are really common.)



Yea, it's the most common birthday month, at least in the Western world.

Edit: And happy birthday!


----------



## TwoSix

payn said:


> Shrimp and white wine?



Probably order some pizza, not with pineapple, and take a half-day.


----------



## billd91

Well, there's another thread to unwatch because it has devolved into a nitpicky discussion between a few usual suspects.


----------



## Gradine

J.Quondam said:


> I've never seen it, but looks like it's from a movie called Grave Encounters:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grave Encounters (2011) - IMDb
> 
> 
> Grave Encounters: Directed by Colin Minihan, Stuart Ortiz, The Vicious Brothers. With Ben Wilkinson, Sean Rogerson, Ashleigh Gryzko, Merwin Mondesir. For their ghost hunting reality show, a production crew locks themselves inside an abandoned mental hospital that's supposedly haunted - and it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.imdb.com



Very fun horror movie. If you're not opposed to subtitles (or speak Korean), *Gonjiam: Haunted Asylum *is going to scratch a very similar kind of itch.


----------



## Ryujin

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> (It's my birthday today. Apparently September birthdays are really common.)



9 months after the beginning of the coldest period in the Northern Hemisphere? Who would have guessed?


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> Well, there's another thread to unwatch because it has devolved into a nitpicky discussion between a few usual suspects.




And not the few from the movie.


----------



## TwoSix

Ryujin said:


> 9 months after the beginning of the coldest period in the Northern Hemisphere? Who would have guessed?



You'd think, but it's also the most common birth month in Australia.  I imagine it has more to do with the holiday season and the end of the year.

In the UK, today (September 26) is the most common birthday.


----------



## RealAlHazred

So, today, a guy at my company called to tell me that they're closing my location (incorrect) and that therefore this Friday is my last day (incorrect, but stressful), and then my wife sent me a photo of my dog, whose face is swollen on one side.

I'm logging off the Internet for the day to have a lie-down.


----------



## prabe

RealAlHazred said:


> So, today, a guy at my company called to tell me that they're closing my location (incorrect) and that therefore this Friday is my last day (incorrect, but stressful), and then my wife sent me a photo of my dog, whose face is swollen on one side.
> 
> I'm logging off the Internet for the day to have a lie-down.



Hope your day gets better.


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> Hope your day gets better.



I mean, my boss was in the room, and before I was even done with the call was on the phone with his boss to straighten it out. We're down to four guys to service two locations, and they don't want to hire anyone -- makes it _extremely unlikely_ I'm on the chopping block anytime soon.

My dog is probably suffering from a tooth or gum-line infection, since there's absolutely nothing so disgusting he won't put it in his mouth.

But, thanks, yeah, stress enough for the day.


----------



## Hussar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> We are going to have to agree to disagree on this. It's not context-dependent, here. The very nature of this specific type of comedy is that it _is ambiguous_.
> 
> It's similar to someone saying that they don't like stories with unreliable narrators because they don't know what "really happened." That's fine as a preference, but that preference precludes the entirety of that form. *



Fair enough.  And I agree.

But, you also don't get to complain when people misunderstand your point either.  If you are being deliberately vague, even in service to comedy, then, well, you are deliberately making your point obscure, which makes communication more difficult.  And since comedy is extremely dependent on culture and language skills, this kind of comedy might not be all that helpful at a given point in time.

And, let's not forget context either.  The whole "Oh, I didn't mean that.  Why are you getting angry?" line of gaslighting has been used to weaponize being deliberately vague since time began.  Which makes it really, really easy for people to get an extra helping of shirty when it gets trotted out.  Is someone being clever or arguing from bad faith?  That's a really fine line to tread sometimes.  Add on to that the fact that written word conversations are massively lacking in nuance which leads to misunderstandings and you wind up with flaming rows really quickly.


----------



## Umbran

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> (It's my birthday today. Apparently September birthdays are really common.)




Ninth month of the year.  Midwinter in the northern hemisphere has people... looking for entertainment indoors a lot, I guess.


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> Ninth month of the year.  Midwinter in the northern hemisphere has people... looking for entertainment indoors a lot, I guess.




My daughter was just born. . . in September, so I can attest to this.


----------



## CleverNickName

Aw.  The Echo Knight didn't even make it into the Top Ten.  That's a shame; it's one of the more underrated Fighter subclasses in the game, IMO.  I recommend it to all of the Fighter Fans who want more battlefield position and control, but don't want to cast spells.


----------



## payn

Someone sent me this today;


----------



## payn

Again, with the irony, zero self awareness.


----------



## prabe

This again.

Your answer is "Oops."


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Aw.  The Echo Knight didn't even make it into the Top Ten.  That's a shame; it's one of the more underrated Fighter subclasses in the game, IMO.  I recommend it to all of the Fighter Fans who want more battlefield position and control, but don't want to cast spells.



I love the echo knight! However, it doesn't work as written, and when it does work, it's more complicated and convoluted then any other Fighter subclass.


----------



## el-remmen

My  view/response/impression of the first screen and half's worth of threads on the D&D forum which I looked at just now:


Interesting, but don't have much to add
Facts, but any discussion about it collapsed into the usual obtuse pedantry and BS by the end of the first page.
The scare quotes have made me never click on it
A thought experiment I don't have interest in contributing to, so why derail?
You don't need WotC to stat everything for you.
Cool! Thanks for the tip, esp. since I might run this - but nothing to say about it
I got about 10 minutes into one CR episode once. I found it cringey.
I recently started playing an OSR game, but this still doesn't interest me
Once _Hawk the Slayer_ was removed what was the point?
A necro thread. I already said my peace/piece? I love eggcorns.
Again, the 51 pages demonstrate there is nothing in this thread that hasn't been said before
I lost interest in these.
Speculation and a token will get you a ride on the NYC subway, except not because they don't make tokens anymore.
I like how this guys uses the forums to explore possible directions for his game, just don't have anything to contribute
I just can't with this guy half the time.
I might click on this one later
A friggin' Snarf Thread. Nuff said. (literally, I responded once, that was 'nuff).
I don't care about math and averages.
More baseless speculation
I don't need to hear everyone dunk on NuTSR anymore - place it in the dustbin of history and move on
I don't care enough to figure out what this is.
Informative, I guess. Just not for me.
But why?
Everything I hate about "build" approach to playing D&D


----------



## billd91

el-remmen said:


> Once _Hawk the Slayer_ was removed what was the point?



I know, right?


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> My  view/response/impression of the first screen and half's worth of thread on the D&D forum which I looked at just now:
> 
> 
> Interesting, but don't have much to add
> Facts, but any discussion about it collapsed into the usual obtuse pedantry and BS by the end of the first page.
> The scare quotes have made me never click on it
> A thought experiment I don't have interest in contributing to, so why derail?
> You don't need WotC to stat everything for you.
> Cool! Thanks for the tip, esp. since I might run this - but nothing to say about it
> I got about 10 minutes into one CR episode once. I found it cringey.
> I recently started playing an OSR game, but this still doesn't interest me
> Once _Hawk the Slayer_ was removed what was the point?
> A necro thread. I already said my peace/piece? I love eggcorns.
> Again, the 51 pages demonstrate there is nothing in this thread that hasn't been said before
> I lost interest in these.
> Speculation and a token will get you a ride on the NYC subway, except not because they don't make tokens anymore.
> I like how this guys uses the forums to explore possible directions for his game, just don't have anything to contribute
> I just can't with this guy half the time.
> I might click on this one later
> A friggin' Snarf Thread. Nuff said. (literally, I responded once, that was 'nuff).
> I don't care about math and averages.
> More baseless speculation
> I don't need to hear everyone dunk on NuTSR anymore - place it in the dustbin of history and move on
> I don't care enough to figure out what this is.
> Informative, I guess. Just not for me.
> But why?
> Everything I hate about "build" approach to playing D&D



TL;DR


----------



## Cadence

Say player A decides to broaden their horizons away from the more traditional ttrpgs and joins one of player B's favorite games that player B is running. Further, say that player A's PC is roughly based on themself and that there is an NPC in the game that is closely modeled on B.

Would player A be allowed to make a roll and spend a resource to have PC-A convince NPC-B that player A's favorite ttrpg actually does the good stuff too?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Say player A decides to broaden their horizons and play in one of player B's favorite games that player B is running. Further, say that player A's PC is based on themself and that there is an NPC in the game that is closely modeled on B.
> 
> Would player A be allowed to make a roll and spend a resource to have PC-A convince NPC-B that player A's favorite ttrpg actually does the good stuff too?



Im not entirely sure what you are saying/asking here, but it reminds me of gensys _end of the world _RPG. One of my players works at FFG and he just got the book at the time. Said PCs are built based on your real life self and what items you happen to have on you. I showed up at the chargen session with a chainsaw.


----------



## Gradine

I was extremely disappointed when I realized that that thread had nothing to do with the beloved Christmas movie


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> I was extremely disappointed when I realized that that thread had nothing to do with the beloved Christmas movie



_Die Hard_?


----------



## Malmuria

el-remmen said:


> My  view/response/impression of the first screen and half's worth of threads on the D&D forum which I looked at just now:
> 
> 
> Interesting, but don't have much to add
> Facts, but any discussion about it collapsed into the usual obtuse pedantry and BS by the end of the first page.
> The scare quotes have made me never click on it
> A thought experiment I don't have interest in contributing to, so why derail?
> You don't need WotC to stat everything for you.
> Cool! Thanks for the tip, esp. since I might run this - but nothing to say about it
> I got about 10 minutes into one CR episode once. I found it cringey.
> I recently started playing an OSR game, but this still doesn't interest me
> Once _Hawk the Slayer_ was removed what was the point?
> A necro thread. I already said my peace/piece? I love eggcorns.
> Again, the 51 pages demonstrate there is nothing in this thread that hasn't been said before
> I lost interest in these.
> Speculation and a token will get you a ride on the NYC subway, except not because they don't make tokens anymore.
> I like how this guys uses the forums to explore possible directions for his game, just don't have anything to contribute
> I just can't with this guy half the time.
> I might click on this one later
> A friggin' Snarf Thread. Nuff said. (literally, I responded once, that was 'nuff).
> I don't care about math and averages.
> More baseless speculation
> I don't need to hear everyone dunk on NuTSR anymore - place it in the dustbin of history and move on
> I don't care enough to figure out what this is.
> Informative, I guess. Just not for me.
> But why?
> Everything I hate about "build" approach to playing D&D



All possible questions and problems related to role playing games have been answered and solved.   The only thing to do now is to play.


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> I might click on this one later




I did and I still don't understand it.


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> All possible questions and problems related to role playing games have been answered and solved.   The only thing to do now is to play.



You mean the answer was in front of me this whole time!?


----------



## Malmuria

payn said:


> You mean the answer was in front of me this whole time!?



like staring at your phone, while waiting for your group to respond to your scheduling text.


----------



## Hussar

Malmuria said:


> like staring at your phone, while waiting for your group to respond to your scheduling text.



It is one of life's great ironies that gaming and dating share sooooo much.


----------



## payn

I like jumbo shrimp and I cannot lie
all you other posters cant deny...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Would it be a cruel joke to replace a dish of candycorn with replicas made out of three different colors of American cheese?


----------



## payn

Hmm, yet another thread with this convo;

Poster1: X is dumb, awful, bad, and its creator should be in a hospital and/or jail.
poster2: So...its safe to say you hate it?
Poster1: Whoa, Whoa, DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH I actually like it very much!!!!
Everybody else" ???


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> Would it be a cruel joke to replace a dish of candycorn with replicas made out of three different colors of American cheese?




Yes.

Now ask us if it would be a _GOOD_ joke to replace a dish of candy corn with replicas made out of three different colors of American cheese.


----------



## Cadence

I will not continue the derail just to score fake internet points, I will not continue the derail just to score fake internet points...


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I will not continue the derail just to score fake internet points, I will not continue the derail just to score fake internet points...


----------



## RealAlHazred

My next thread will be titled, "Gygax and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Game System." You know, a nice neutral thread for reasoned discussion...


----------



## Cadence

RealAlHazred said:


> My next thread will be titled, "Gygax and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Game System." You know, a nice neutral thread for reasoned discussion...




Are you sure it technically meets the requirements for being a game, or for being a system, or that any parts that do are due to Gygax? I think you'll get some pushback on how the title is too positive.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Are you sure it technically meets the requirements for being a game, or for being a system, or that any parts that do are due to Gygax? I think you'll get some pushback on how the title is too positive.



Nah, if I wanted positive discussion, I'd put a "[+]". Or maybe title it, "Moldvay and the Wonderful, Marvelous, Excellent, Very Good Game System."


----------



## Cadence

Thinking of an array of game names for different preferences...

Casters & Cakewalks
Adequacy & Adventuring
Martials & Misery


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gygaxes & Gunslingers?
Adventures & Arnesons?
Siembiedas & Subjugations?


----------



## payn

Shrimp & White Wine


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Shrimp & White Wine *Sauvignon*



FTFY  

Could also do Prawns and Pino


----------



## prabe

Oh, look. We're back to everyone talking about the same thing from forty different angles again. Yay.


----------



## billd91

prabe said:


> Oh, look. We're back to everyone talking about the same thing from forty different angles again. Yay.



And don't forget the casting of aspersions. Can't forget those.


----------



## CleverNickName

I love it when people start arguing about what they did and did not say.
In an internet chat forum.
Where everything is recorded in writing.
It's searchable.  Quotable, even.

You have complete control over the clarity and intent of your writing.  If folks are misunderstanding the things you write, or if they're twisting your words, you can make your writing more clear...you can make your words less  twisty.  Just as an example:  you could maybe stop using absolutes like "best," "worst," "always," "never," "nobody," and "everybody."


----------



## RealAlHazred

billd91 said:


> And don't forget the casting of aspersions. Can't forget those.



*Aspersions*
_Disenchantment cantrip (bard, nerd, wizard)_
*Casting Time:* 1 action
*Range:* 1 forum
*Components:* S (technically...)
*Duration:* Instantaneous

You unleash a string of thinly-veiled insults masquerading as wit at a creature you can communicate with in one forum. If the target can read your post (though it need not understand it), it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw; it it fails, you honestly believe the target took 1d4 psychic damage and it must spend its next action crafting a strongly-worded response.

*At Higher Levels.* This spell’s damage appears to increase by 1d4 and it can affect additional targets when you reach 5th level (2d4, 2 targets), 11th level (3d4, 4 targets), and 17th level (4d4, 8 targets spread across 2 closely-aligned forums).


----------



## CleverNickName

One small change:  you only _think _that you've dealt damage to your target.  Change the wording in the last sentence to:
"it must succeed on a Wisdom save.  If it fails, you honestly believe it took 1d4 psychic damage..."


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> One small change:  you only _think _that you've dealt damage to your target.  Change the wording in the last sentence to:
> "it must succeed on a Wisdom save.  If it fails, you honestly believe it took 1d4 psychic damage..."



Made some changes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> You unleash a string of thinly-veiled insults massquerading as wit at a creature you can communicate with in one forum.




_There is an inseparable gulf between casting aspersions and wit; wit has the stench of truth to it, while insults (however funny) are simply calisthenics with words.  _
-Don Rickles.


----------



## prabe

Is the delicious barleywine mislabeled as a Scotch Ale a good beer or a bad one?


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Is the delicious barleywine mislabeled as a Scotch Ale a good beer or a bad one?



Generally or specifically? Generally, I avoid them because they are more miss than hit, but I have had a couple good ones.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Generally or specifically? Generally, I avoid them because they are more miss than hit, but I have had a couple good ones.



Well, in the case of a brewer who believes they brewed a Scotch Ale and ended up with a barleywine, how do you decide? You can judge based on outcome--this is _delicious_--or you can judge based on intent--it's not what it says on the label. I'm inclined to think both judgments can be true, here: The beer can be delicious and ... not what the brewer thinks it is.

This _might_ have relevance to conversations going on elsewhere in the forums.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> Well, in the case of a brewer who believes they brewed a Scotch Ale and ended up with a barleywine, how do you decide? You can judge based on outcome--this is _delicious_--or you can judge based on intent--it's not what it says on the label. I'm inclined to think both judgments can be true, here: The beer can be delicious and ... not what the brewer thinks it is.
> 
> This _might_ have relevance to conversations going on elsewhere in the forums.



If you manage to convince enough people to agree with you, maybe you can get the bottling company to change the label!

You could also get a Sharpie and some masking tape, and label that bottle however you want.

Or you could just, you know, _drink it._


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> If you manage to convince enough people to agree with you, maybe you can get the bottling company to change the label!
> 
> You could also get a Sharpie and some masking tape, and label that bottle however you want.
> 
> Or you could just, you know, _drink it._



And know that if you want a Scotch Ale in the future, that's not one.

(It doesn't seem we're really disagreeing ...)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Is the delicious barleywine mislabeled as a Scotch Ale a good beer or a bad one?




_I have always found barleywine to be a bit odd; it refuses to be gin._
-Snarf's Mom.

_Yo mama so classless, I bet she believes she's a Marxist utopia._
-My overeducated classmate.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Well, in the case of a brewer who believes they brewed a Scotch Ale and ended up with a barleywine, how do you decide? You can judge based on outcome--this is _delicious_--or you can judge based on intent--it's not what it says on the label. I'm inclined to think both judgments can be true, here: The beer can be delicious and ... not what the brewer thinks it is.
> 
> This _might_ have relevance to conversations going on elsewhere in the forums.



Well if it's flat, it's Barleywine. Also, Scotch Ale comes only from the Ale Region of Scotland. Anything from elsewhere it just beer.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Well if it's flat, it's Barleywine. Also, Scotch Ale comes only from the Ale Region of Scotland. Anything from elsewhere it just beer.




1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





2.


----------



## CleverNickName

_“People often ask me
  what is the most effective technique
  for transforming their life.
  It is a little embarrassing
  that after years and years of research
  and experimentation,
  I have to say that the best answer is—
  just be a little kinder.”_

_—_Aldous Huxley


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.



How dare you give him a beer with _flavor_?


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> How dare you give him a beer with _flavor_?



(laughs in Pacific Northwest)


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> (laughs in Pacific Northwest)



My wife went to grad school the second time in Montana, and when I'd visit her there, we would drive through Idaho to Washington to pick up beers.

I am familiar with ... well, what was there 12-15 years ago, to be honest.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> How dare you give him a beer with _flavor_?




Oh, you want flavor?


----------



## CleverNickName

Most of the beers up here are IPAs, which have a very strong hop flavor and aroma.  People love or hate the flavor with little in between, and folks describe the flavor as "gin-like," "pine tar," "bug spray," or even "drain cleaner."  But nobody can say they're "flavorless."





They're sort of like warlocks in that respect.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Most of the beers up here are IPAs, which have a very strong hop flavor and aroma.  People love them or hate the flavor, and folks describe the flavor as "bug spray" or "drain cleaner," but nobody can say they're "flavorless."
> 
> View attachment 262615



American hops, though these days they've at least somewhat moved past the classics C hops--Centennial, Cascade, and Chinook. Probably stuff like Mosaic and Citra and stuff so new to market it just has a alphanumeric designation.

I am a beer nerd of long standing please stop me now.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Most of the beers up here are IPAs, which have a very strong hop flavor and aroma.  People love them or hate the flavor, and folks describe the flavor as "bug spray" or "drain cleaner," but nobody can say they're "flavorless."




So, on a somewhat serious note ... the problem with IPAs in my opinion is that most of them aren't very good. There has been an arms race with a lot of IPA makers and instead of asking, "How can I make a better beer," they instead ask, "How can we HOP THE S*** OUT OF THIS AND MAKE IT INSANELY BITTER???"

It's like if people who made spirits decided that the only "real" style for spirits was an Italian Amaro, and instead of making the many delicious ones we have, all they did was try and make Fernet-Branca, but ever more bitter.

I love (really love) bitter flavors, but I am unimpressed with the vast majority of IPAs.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So, on a somewhat serious note ... the problem with IPAs in my opinion is that most of them aren't very good. There has been an arms race with a lot of IPA makers and instead of asking, "How can I make a better beer," they instead ask, "How can we HOP THE S*** OUT OF THIS AND MAKE IT INSANELY BITTER???"




I was thinking the problem with IPAs is that they aren't Stouts, Porters, Dunkels, or Weizens...  but that could explain it.


----------



## CleverNickName

There are only two IPAs in the Pacific Northwest that I recommend:
Gigantic IPA from Gigantic Brewing, and 
Pallet Jack IPA from Barley Brown's Beer.  

Yes, they're extremely hoppy and crisp--the first is more floral and juicy, the latter is more piney, but they are at least balanced with an appropriate amount of malt.  All others taste nearly identical to me.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So, on a somewhat serious note ... the problem with IPAs in my opinion is that most of them aren't very good. There has been an arms race with a lot of IPA makers and instead of asking, "How can I make a better beer," they instead ask, "How can we HOP THE S*** OUT OF THIS AND MAKE IT INSANELY BITTER???"
> 
> It's like if people who made spirits decided that the only "real" style for spirits was an Italian Amaro, and instead of making the many delicious ones we have, all they did was try and make Fernet-Branca, but ever more bitter.
> 
> I love (really love) bitter flavors, but I am unimpressed with the vast majority of IPAs.



You've probably gotten this recommendation before, but the entire NEIPA (New England IPA) thing is all about getting the fruity floral citrussy hops flavors into the beer without making them register as _bitter_. Lots of late- and dry-hopping, I think. Just a suggestion for something to try.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I was thinking the problem with IPAs is that they aren't Stouts, Porters, Dunkels, or Weizens...  but that could explain it.



So long as they aren't _sour_ beers, I'll drink 'em.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> So long as they aren't _sour_ beers, I'll drink 'em.



I was so happy when they started carrying more non-IPAs locally... then I noticed almost all the replacements were sours!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> So long as they aren't _sour_ beers, I'll drink 'em.




Aw .... a good Lambic is totally worth it. 

A lot of what is labelled "sour" in America ... not so much.


----------



## CleverNickName

I prefer bocks, but I'll drink just about anything if it's made well.  There are a few sour ales I like, and a few pilsners, a few IPAs, a few dopples, a few hefes, even a few lagers...given enough time, I can usually find one or two of each category that I like.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So, on a somewhat serious note ... the problem with IPAs in my opinion is that most of them aren't very good. There has been an arms race with a lot of IPA makers and instead of asking, "How can I make a better beer," they instead ask, "How can we HOP THE S*** OUT OF THIS AND MAKE IT INSANELY BITTER???"
> 
> It's like if people who made spirits decided that the only "real" style for spirits was an Italian Amaro, and instead of making the many delicious ones we have, all they did was try and make Fernet-Branca, but ever more bitter.
> 
> I love (really love) bitter flavors, but I am unimpressed with the vast majority of IPAs.



This is why I have moved towards American Pale Ales as they tone it down and are not expected to double or triple hop the hell out of you.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I prefer bocks, but I'll drink just about anything if it's made well.  There are a few sour ales I like, and a few pilsners, a few IPAs, a few dopples, a few hefes, even a few lagers...given enough time, I can usually find one or two of each category that I like.




BEHOLD! 








....now if I can only find some Ham Beer to mix it with .... OH WAIT!






Combine the two, and you got yourself a Belgian Hawaiian!


----------



## CleverNickName

So what you're saying is, beer is actually a pizza?
Interesting.


----------



## payn

Of my homebrews, my Jalapeno IPA is the clear fan favorite. It's a cheaper beer to make too. Just simple Chinook and marris otter malt. Add Jalapenos (cut and de-seeded) at secondary fermentations. Bottle and enjoy.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> (laughs in Pacific Northwest)



Laughs in Canadian.


----------



## billd91

Hyperbole. Now that's a concept people are *real* selective about.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> So what you're saying is, beer is actually a pizza?
> Interesting.




Is beer pizza? 

Of course not! Beer is so much better for you.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Is beer pizza?
> 
> Of course not! Beer is so much better for you.



It is a low calorie beer with actual flavor.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Aw .... a good Lambic is totally worth it.
> 
> A lot of what is labelled "sour" in America ... not so much.



I respect what goes into making a good lambic, but I've never had one I *loved*. Applies to sour beers more generally. That's me, though--drink what you like! (This might be a familiar sentiment ...)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I respect what goes into making a good lambic, but I've never had one I *loved*. Applies to sour beers more generally. That's me, though--drink what you like! (This might be a familiar sentiment ...)




This sounds like you're not getting the right advice. You're going to need plenty of beer advice before this thread is over. As your beer attorney, I advise you to fly to Belgium and rent a very fast car with no top. And you'll need the cocaine. Some of those apple airbud thingies for the music. Get the hell out of America for at least a fortnight and take yourself on a tour of Belgian beers. Those Belgians- they might be the freekie-deekies of Europe, but their breweries are the Disney World of boozing. Buy the ticket, take the ride. And by the time you manage to clear out "It's a small world" from your barely-functioning brainstem, the majesty of the Lambic will be revealed.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This sounds like you're not getting the right advice. You're going to need plenty of beer advice before this thread is over. As your beer attorney, I advise you to fly to Belgium and rent a very fast car with no top. And you'll need the cocaine. Some of those apple airbud thingies for the music. Get the hell out of America for at least a fortnight and take yourself on a tour of Belgian beers. Those Belgians- they might be the freekie-deekies of Europe, but their breweries are the Disney World of boozing. But the ticket, take the ride. And by the time you manage to clear out "It's a small world" from your barely-functioning brainstem, the majesty of the Lambic will be revealed.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This sounds like you're not getting the right advice. You're going to need plenty of beer advice before this thread is over. As your beer attorney, I advise you to fly to Belgium and rent a very fast car with no top. And you'll need the cocaine. Some of those apple airbud thingies for the music. Get the hell out of America for at least a fortnight and take yourself on a tour of Belgian beers. Those Belgians- they might be the freekie-deekies of Europe, but their breweries are the Disney World of boozing. But the ticket, take the ride. And by the time you manage to clear out "It's a small world" from your barely-functioning brainstem, the majesty of the Lambic will be revealed.



I agree. The Belgians make some superb beers.

























Alas, I apparently wasn't taking pics when I went through my "gotta collect the set" phase with the Trappists. Not that a bottle of Westy 12 looks like much ...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I agree. The Belgians make some superb beers.






prabe said:


> Alas, I apparently wasn't taking pics when I went through my "gotta collect the set" phase with the Trappists. Not that a bottle of Westy 12 looks like much ...




When people say, "Give me one good argument to keep monks in 5e,"

I reply, "Belgian Trappist Beers."

Game.

Set.

Snarf.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> When people say, "Give me one good argument to keep monks in 5e,"
> 
> I reply, "Belgian Trappist Beers."
> 
> Game.
> 
> Set.
> 
> Snarf.



How else do you explain Drunken Master?


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> Well, in the case of a brewer who believes they brewed a Scotch Ale and ended up with a barleywine, how do you decide? You can judge based on outcome--this is _delicious_--or you can judge based on intent--it's not what it says on the label. I'm inclined to think both judgments can be true, here: The beer can be delicious and ... not what the brewer thinks it is.




There is a third option - If the process of making one can end up with another such that even the maker is not clear on the matter, the distinction may not actually a practical one in most cases.


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> There is a third option - If the process of making one can end up with another such that even the maker is not clear on the matter, the distinction may not actually a practical one in most cases.



Indeed. This is how American Barleywine, Black IPA, and other generally acknowledged styles came to be. Generally, those started from the brewer getting where they wanted to be, though, and the taxonomists catching up.


----------



## LordEntrails

prabe said:


> I agree. The Belgians make some superb beers.



This I will not argue with. My wife just found someone to send a dozen Timmerman's to us in the the US. No idea what she paid, I don't want to know.


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> Generally, those started from the brewer getting where they wanted to be, though, and the taxonomists catching up.




Fair enough.  But... beware taxonomists.  

Like, with wine - all the language around wine flavors and characteristics beyond the most basic can be demonstrated to be, well, hogwash.  In a blind test, a given taster will often attribute highly different characteristics to the same wine on different tastings.  

Taxonomies based on such, then, are not of practical value, as they are not dependable.


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> Fair enough.  But... beware taxonomists.
> 
> Like, with wine - all the language around wine flavors and characteristics beyond the most basic can be demonstrated to be, well, hogwash.  In a blind test, a given taster will often attribute highly different characteristics to the same wine on different tastings.
> 
> Taxonomies based on such, then, are not of practical value, as they are not dependable.



I use them--in beer--mainly so I know what the brewer was trying to do. Or at least I can narrow the range some.


----------



## prabe

LordEntrails said:


> This I will not argue with. My wife just found someone to send a dozen Timmerman's to us in the the US. No idea what she paid, I don't want to know.



The fact there is a gray market for beer is deeply amusing to me. Technically, two of them, I guess: stuff people import, and arguably the whole beer-trading thing with so much beer being so local.


----------



## Malmuria

My OSE group sort of told me that they are not into OSE?  Specifically xp-for-gold, dangerous environments, simple character options.  All things I love!  I'm very disappointed.  But then I read the one dnd playtest, and as my eyes glazed over in boredom, I vowed not to run that game again.


----------



## RealAlHazred

The two times I've had this, it was delicious. Hard to get where I live in the US.


----------



## Cadence

If only it were possible for D&D designers to capture that kind of character with it's ______ class.  But it's impossible with D&D mechanics :-(

::: Previous editions of D&D, Pathfinder 1e, A5e,  a mountain or 3P stuff all apparently illusions blowing away in the wind ::::


----------



## CleverNickName

*Scenes from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
Act II, Scene V

Tasha's: * Welcome to Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything!  What would you like today?
*Customer: * Nothing.  The previous pizzeria was better than this one.
*Tasha's:*  Um, sorry?
*Customer: *Completely better in every way.  Better crust, better sauce, I can't believe they closed.
*Tasha's:  *This is a completely different pizzeria now. 
*Customer: * Better prices, too.  The menus were printed on better-quality cardstock.
*Tasha's: * That pizzeria is long gone, and it's not coming back.  I can't do anything about that. 
*Customer:  *It even had better furniture too.  It was just better in every way, lots of people say so.
*Tasha's:* Why are you telling _me_ all of this?
*Customer: * Are you kidding?  I'm telling _everyone_ who will listen!


----------



## Malmuria

"exhaustion," indeed


----------



## el-remmen

I literally would prefer discussing politics at  Thanksgiving dinner than beer with anyone.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> You have complete control over the clarity and intent of your writing




I don't know who this "you" is but as someone who taught writing for a decade, I haven't met them.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> I literally would prefer discussing politics at  Thanksgiving dinner than beer with anyone.



As in really not liking beer, really liking politics with family, or really not liking sitting with people having a beer?


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> I don't know who this "you" is but as someone who taught writing for a decade, I haven't met them.




Actually, I should probably add that my first day spiel included some version of the following, "The reality is that I cannot _teach_ you how to write. I can only give you a space to practice and get feedback. Unfortunately, I still have to grade you on it."


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> I don't know who this "you" is but as someone who taught writing for a decade, I haven't met them.



I meant "you" as the person sitting in front of the keyboard, deciding on which words to use and the order to place them in, so as to convey your message to your intended audience.

But I suppose someone could be translating for you, or taking dictation...


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> As in really not liking beer, really liking politics with family, or really not liking sitting with people having a beer?




I love the beer the beer that I love. Not sure why I have to talk about it with anyone or listen to anyone talk about their favorite beer.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> I'm pretty sure "you" are the person sitting in front of the keyboard, deciding on which words to use and the order to place them in, so as to convey your message to your intended audience.




Lord, if it were only that easy! Who your audience might be is a complicated issue in and of itself, before we even get to the words or their order!


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I love the beer the beer that I love. Not sure why I have to talk about it with anyone or listen to anyone talk about their favorite beer.



Its funny, I never argued about beer anywhere with anyone, until right here.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Its funny, I never argued about beer anywhere with anyone, until right here.




I never have either because I drink while they talk and then I respond with something that has nothing to do with beer.
Edit: Except maybe, "Do you want another?"


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> Lord, if it were only that easy! Who your audience might be is a complicated issue in and of itself, before we even get to the words or their order!



True.  Control of the _reader _is something else entirely.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Its funny, I never argued about beer anywhere with anyone, until right here.



Here in Portland, people like to argue about anything.  I've seen people throw a shouting fit over coffee....apparently the French press vs. pourover is a _hotly contested issue that I should care deeply about._

It's kind of like martials vs. casters, in that respect.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> True.  Control of the _reader _is something else entirely.




We're all writing for multiple audiences simultaneously, of which only a handful may be visible to us at any given time. That is why (and I am not talking about writing fiction here) it _can _be important to explicitly acknowledge the audience you are writing for as you see it, and insert any necessary caveats about the potential audience(s) to which you think it may not apply.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> I love the beer the beer that I love. Not sure why I have to talk about it with anyone or listen to anyone talk about their favorite beer.



Oh.... discussing beer.  Now I get it


----------



## el-remmen

Malmuria said:


> My OSE group sort of told me that they are not into OSE?  Specifically xp-for-gold, dangerous environments, simple character options.  All things I love!  I'm very disappointed.  But then I read the one dnd playtest, and as my eyes glazed over in boredom, I vowed not to run that game again.




About to start as a player in a new DCC game and I am psyched for it! I haven't been a player in a D&D game since early 2016 (not counting two sessions of a 5E online West Marches game that had perfectly fine DMs but that had an overall tone that did not match my preferred playstyle or the setting).


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> About to start as a player in a new DCC game and I am psyched for it! I haven't been a player in a D&D game since early 2016 (not counting two sessions of a 5E online West Marches game that had perfectly fine DMs but that had an overall tone that did not match my preferred playstyle or the setting).



Are you gonna funnel to kick it off?


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Are you gonna funnel to kick it off?




Damn straight. My zero level gong farmer, turnip farmer, wheat farmer and hobbit chicken butcher are ready to go!


----------



## el-remmen

Sometimes 5E, while "easy mode" compared to my previous fave (3E, which I grew exhausted by), feels too complicated for me these days. I still like it, but when I hear on the latest One D&D playtest intro video that there are going to be 48 subclasses I shudder.


----------



## el-remmen

Shhh. Don't tell anyone in the D&D forum, but I am one of those weirdos who'd rather my wizard be stuck using a crossbow because he's out of spells than spamming the same cantrips over and over again.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes 5E, while "easy mode" compared to my previous fave (3E, which I grew exhausted by), feels too complicated for me these days. I still like it, but when I hear on the latest One D&D playtest intro video that there are going to 48 subclasses I shudder.



48 you say? Might be time for me to give 5E another shot.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes 5E, while "easy mode" compared to my previous fave (3E, which I grew exhausted by), feels too complicated for me these days. I still like it, but when I hear on the latest One D&D playtest intro video that there are going to 48 subclasses I shudder.




Oh, that's just the beginning!

There will be 12 official classes.

Those classes will be divided into 4 groups of three classes (Warrior, Mage, Priest, and Expert).

Every group will have the ability to have chose between three Überklassen.

Then, of course, each class will have four subclasses.

Every subclass will have five Unterklassen. 

Unless, of course, you choose the Gestalt option, in which case you get to go a la carte for all of your choices between Überklassen/Group/Class/Subclass/Unterklassen, using a modified point-buy system lightly based on easy-to-understand principles we all learned in linear algebra, with a slight gated system for half, full, and chained feats.


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> Shhh. Don't tell anyone in the D&D forum, but I am one of those weirdos who'd rather my wizard be stuck using a crossbow because he's out of spells than spamming the same cantrips over and over again.




Me: Considering limiting cantrip use to 1 + proficiency bonus between short rests.
Them: What are you going to give them in return for this nerfing?
Me: The challenging fun of figuring out how to overcome limits.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Me: Considering limiting cantrip use to 1 + proficiency bonus between short rests.
> Them: What are you going to give them in return for this nerfing?
> Me: *The challenging fun of figuring out how to overcome limits.*




So you've heard that they're introducing calculus to the tired old "bounded accuracy" in One D&D? I know, I'm excited too!


----------



## payn

Should only require an abacus as Gygax intended.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Should only require an abacus as Gygax intended.




Gygaxian Problem Solving - The Only True RPG Design Principle

1. Can the problem be solved be solved by a table and a percentile roll?
2. If yes, stop here. If no, go to 3.
3. KREATE MOAR TABLEZ. Go to 1.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> Lord, if it were only that easy! Who your audience might be is a complicated issue in and of itself, before we even get to the words or their order!



Yup. Experience colours interpretation. Even when you can actually teach someone enough that they can consistently convey their thoughts sufficiently well, you cannot teach those who receive the communications how to understand them. 

I once had a manager critique my business communications because, in his opinion, I was aiming at too high a reader comprehension level. This master literary critic used the Microsoft Word tool to get the level of my writing. My work was at a college level. For an audience that uniformly had at least a college diploma. He told me to aim for around grade 5.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Gygaxian Problem Solving - The Only True RPG Design Principle
> 
> 1. Can the problem be solved be solved by a table and a percentile roll?
> 2. If yes, stop here. If no, go to 3.
> 3. KREATE MOAR TABLEZ. Go to 1.



I'm starting a petition to bring back the 1e unarmed combat tables.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> I'm starting a petition to bring back the 1e unarmed combat tables.




The Top Ten1e DMG Tables.

1. Disease or Disorder Table
_Really, the whole disease section on pp. 13-14 is a Gygaxian table masterpiece. _

2.  Spy Failure Table
_It's all fun and games until you roll, get caught, and then roll a d6 to determine if you're tortured._

3. Change Table for Lycanthropes
_I bet you thought you just changed. HA! Wax on, wane off._

4. Sage Fields of Study
_Are you into icthyoids, dweomercraeft, or weird spellings?_

5. Psionic Attack Upon Defenseless Pisonic
_How about we mix percentiles, numbers, and letters in a random ol' matrix? OKAY!_

6. Facts Tables
_Okay, it's facts and traits about NPC. You want yer facts, I got 'em raight here! _

7. Mining: Cubic Volume of Rock per 8 Hours Labor per Miner
_Favorite. Table. Ever. _

8. Siege Attack Values.
_Wherein you learn that Bigby's Clenched Fist is more effective against wood than a screw saw, but has the same effectiveness on hard rock._

9.  Every table in Appendix A.
_Random dungeon generation FTW! What kind of magic pool is it, anyway?_

10.  Random Drunk table.
_What type of tipsy reveler is it? (Rolls dice) Oh, it isn't a drunken rake, but just a wine-sodden bum. _


----------



## Gradine

el-remmen said:


> I love the beer the beer that I love. Not sure why I have to talk about it with anyone or listen to anyone talk about their favorite beer.



LOLOLOLOL I have two friends who are probably the most queer people I know irl and when I came out I tried to get closer to them so I could have a greater connection to them but they will literally spend hours talking about beer and will practically refuse to speak about literally any other topic and it drives me up the wall.


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So you've heard that they're introducing calculus to the tired old "bounded accuracy" in One D&D? I know, I'm excited too!




None of the react emojis available seemed appropriate, so here it is:


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> Me: Considering limiting cantrip use to 1 + proficiency bonus between short rests.
> Them: What are you going to give them in return for this nerfing?
> Me: The challenging fun of figuring out how to overcome limits.



To be clear: This is not mean to come off as suggesting everyone has to like what I like. But I like my video games on Easy Mode and my D&D on hard mode.


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> Shhh. Don't tell anyone in the D&D forum, but I am one of those weirdos who'd rather my wizard be stuck using a crossbow because he's out of spells than spamming the same cantrips over and over again.




So, take utility cantrips and a crossbow.

Mind you, as a Battlesmith Artificer, you get to infuse that crossbow with magic power, use your Intelligence as your attack and damage bonus stat with it, and get multiple attacks per round...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> None of the react emojis available seemed appropriate, so here it is:










I was always caught up in the eternal battle between Randy Meisner and Glenn Frey - should I take it to the limit, or take it easy?

In my dotage, I realized that the debate was for the birds. 



_You're welcome. _


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> To be clear: This is not mean to come off as suggesting everyone has to like what I like. But I like my video games on Easy Mode and my D&D on hard mode.



I know a few folks that like their D&D nintendo hard


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Apropos of a few recent postings on a thread ...

_A fanatic is a person who can't change his mind and won't change the subject_.


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> So, take utility cantrips and a crossbow.
> 
> Mind you, as a Battlesmith Artificer, you get to infuse that crossbow with magic power, use your Intelligence as your attack and damage bonus stat with it, and get multiple attacks per round...




I'm not talking about taking or not taking anything. I am talking about the feeling of the game and setting. Also, I don't even know  what book Artificers are in! (I limit class and subclass choices to the PHB).


----------



## el-remmen

I know some people are of the philosophy of just making your character(s) as you would like to see them and leave others to play their characters how they want to play them, and I get that. If it works for you, awesome. But despite being someone for whom the story does not matter except in how it plays out through game play, the fiction is nevertheless important. For example in the game I mentioned trying out, I made the character a hobgoblin fighter (I thought I was being a little out there by being a hobgoblin - I am so old and naïve!) But when every one around you is doing wild stuff it doesn't matter (to me) what you can or can't do or even how effective it is or isn't (again, to me) but just the image and tone it creates in game. I am not into bards who make anachronistic rock star jokes or the very idea of an astral monk, let alone one who serves the "flying spaghetti monster" and his astral arms take the form of immense noodles. Esp, in a Ravenloft game! And again, if other folks like that, I am glad. I just can't imagine living with it, let alone learning to like it. I left them to enjoy the game they liked. It wasn't personal. It just wasn't for me. I think I was spoiled by playing for decades with various incarnations of a group that may not have had identical tastes, but were all within a range that helped us avoid that kind of dissonant fiction.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

el-remmen said:


> Sometimes 5E, while "easy mode" compared to my previous fave (3E, which I grew exhausted by), feels too complicated for me these days. I still like it, but when I hear on the latest One D&D playtest intro video that there are going to be 48 subclasses I shudder.



The original PHB already had 40 subclasses . .  . so that's just 8 more. And that's an average of 4 options per class, which really isn't that much, IMO. Not to mention how many are in the Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, and all of the setting books.


----------



## el-remmen

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> The original PHB already had 40 subclasses . .  . so that's just 8 more. And that's an average of 4 options per class, which really isn't that much, IMO. Not to mention how many are in the Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, and all of the setting books.




Yeah, as I said before, my group only plays with the PHB ones (and no Warlocks). I'd be fine with 3 per class. But then I'd be satisfied with four classes (cleric, rogue, fighter, mage) and four subclasses for each. Maybe I'll publish my own 5E variant,_ Limits & Laymen_.


----------



## CleverNickName

Gonna drop this in my next adventure.  Thanks, Twitter!

*Crystal Flute*​_Wondrous Item (Very Rare), Requires Attunement_​This magical flute is made from pure crystal and blessed by the Fey Lords of the Gloaming Court long ago.  It had been all but forgotten in the centuries since its creation, but its recent rediscovery is now stirring the outrage of the troll armies of the realm.​​While attuned to this flute, you have Advantage on all Charisma checks and save throws.  Any trolls, ogres, and troglodytes that hear the crystal flute being played must make a Charisma saving throw or be stunned, seething with impotent outrage, until the end of your next turn.  ​


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Gonna drop this in my next adventure.  Thanks, Twitter!
> 
> *Crystal Flute*​_Wondrous Item (Very Rare), Requires Attunement_​This magical flute is made from pure crystal and blessed by the Fey Lords of the Gloaming Court long ago.  It had been all but forgotten in the centuries since its creation, but its recent rediscovery is now stirring the outrage of the troll armies of the realm.​​While attuned to this flute, you have Advantage on all Charisma checks and save throws.  Any trolls, ogres, and troglodytes that hear the crystal flute being played must make a Charisma saving throw or be stunned, seething with impotent outrage, until the end of your next turn.  ​



Oh...you...this is wonderful.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Oh...you...this is wonderful.


----------



## trappedslider

Anyone want a fresca?


----------



## Malmuria

el-remmen said:


> Shhh. Don't tell anyone in the D&D forum, but I am one of those weirdos who'd rather my wizard be stuck using a crossbow because he's out of spells than spamming the same cantrips over and over again.




I actually find the non-damage cantrips more annoying, because they obviate so many common obstacles.  If people in the real world had 5e cantrips many mundane problems would be solved (and many non mundane problems introduced...but it's difficult to imagine exactly what those would be and bring them into play in interesting ways, at least for me).


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The Top Ten1e DMG Tables.




 Gygax knew more about the inner workings of the universe than Einstein.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, I just really dislike the way you're saying it.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Anyone want a fresca?



Wish that I could.


----------



## Malmuria

Mad_Jack said:


> Gygax knew more about the inner workings of the universe than Einstein.



If the gods do play dice with the universe, they probably use a random table from the dmg.  However, we know the gods do not play dice with the universe, nor do they follow any procedure, hence why our universe is incomplete.  Not saying that's bad or anything, some people are into vast, meaningless voids, just saying there are other universes out there.  A multiverse, if you will.

 Also there is no god.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

el-remmen said:


> I know some people are of the philosophy of just making your character(s) as you would like to see them and leave others to play their characters how they want to play them, and I get that. If it works for you, awesome. But despite being someone for whom the story does not matter except in how it plays out through game play, the fiction is nevertheless important. For example in the game I mentioned trying out, I made the character a hobgoblin fighter (I thought I was being a little out there by being a hobgoblin - I am so old and naïve!) But when every one around you is doing wild stuff it doesn't matter (to me) what you can or can't do or even how effective it is or isn't (again, to me) but just the image and tone it creates in game. I am not into bards who make anachronistic rock star jokes or the very idea of an astral monk, let alone one who serves the "flying spaghetti monster" and his astral arms take the form of immense noodles. Esp, in a Ravenloft game! And again, if other folks like that, I am glad. I just can't imagine living with it, let alone learning to like it. I left them to enjoy the game they liked. It wasn't personal. It just wasn't for me. I think I was spoiled by playing for decades with various incarnations of a group that may not have had identical tastes, but were all within a range that helped us avoid that kind of dissonant fiction.



Hey, I've been the Bard making anachronistic rock star jokes in a campaign with a group that vibed with that, and yet there's still a pretty low limit to my tolerance for joke characters who don't have any substance beyond the one joke.


----------



## darjr

Was I the only person around then? Maybe the hadron collider really did mess up everything.


----------



## CleverNickName

I hope the Monk survivor thread gets as much traction and discourse as the Fighter one did.  That was a lot of fun!


----------



## Hussar

Ok, I have to ask.  Why would you join a message board only to announce, in a thread about the newest version of the game, that you will never actually buy or play the newest version of the game and will only stay with the older version, when, the older version has an entire forum dedicated to it?  Like, as in this was the fourth post that this person had ever made on the board under that name.


----------



## trappedslider

this looks snazzy 





						Amazon.com: Batmobile Manual: Inside the Dark Knight's Most Iconic Rides (Haynes Manual): 9781647223298: Insight Editions: Books
					

Amazon.com: Batmobile Manual: Inside the Dark Knight's Most Iconic Rides (Haynes Manual): 9781647223298: Insight Editions: Books



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Ryujin

Hussar said:


> Ok, I have to ask.  Why would you join a message board only to announce, in a thread about the newest version of the game, that you will never actually buy or play the newest version of the game and will only stay with the older version, when, the older version has an entire forum dedicated to it?  Like, as in this was the fourth post that this person had ever made on the board under that name.



Key: "under that name."


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> I'm not talking about taking or not taking anything. I am talking about the feeling of the game and setting.




_"I am one of those weirdos who'd rather *my** wizard* be stuck using a crossbow because he's out of spells than spamming the same cantrips over and over again."_

The feeling of the game and the setting is about _everyone else's_ wizards, not your own, isn't it?    

Nothing wrong with that, but in terms of understanding your point, there's a big difference between "I don't want to do that," and "I don't want anyone to do that".



el-remmen said:


> Also, I don't even know  what book Artificers are in! (I limit class and subclass choices to the PHB).




It is from Eberron originally, now found in _Tasha's Cauldron of Everything_.  I expect it is irrelevant given what you seem to have said above.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Shhh. Don't tell anyone in the D&D forum, but I am one of those weirdos who'd rather my wizard be stuck using a crossbow because he's out of spells than spamming the same cantrips over and over again.




N00b.

Real magic users can't use crossbows.

If I see you with much more than a dagger and a staff, I'm revoking your ability join me in yelling at clouds.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> N00b.
> 
> Real magic users can't use crossbows.
> 
> If I see you with much more than a dagger and a staff, I'm revoking your ability join me in yelling at clouds.



_smacks you with a scroll of THACO_ No bad old man bad


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> _"I am one of those weirdos who'd rather *my wizard* be stuck using a crossbow because he's out of spells than spamming the same cantrips over and over again."_
> 
> The feeling of the game and the setting is about _everyone else's_ wizards, not your own, isn't it?
> 
> Nothing wrong with that, but in terms of understanding your point, there's a big difference between "I don't want to do that," and "I don't want anyone to do that".



Sorry for the confusion but I meant "my" in terms of what _my _wizard can do because of the rules of the game. If I played a wizard i in a game with the RAW rules on cantrips and I busted out my crossbow when I could still be casting spells, chances are the other players would get frustrated with me and they would probably have more of a right to get frustrated than I would just because I don't like the flavor the rules encourage.


Hmm, now I am thinking 1 + Proficiency bonus cantrips between short rests + 1 point of psychic damage per additional cantrip cast.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

So if the RPG you want to play doesn't allow you to make the kind of character that you want to play, _exactly_ the way you want to play it, then it's the game's fault? Hmm... 

Have you ever considered just trying a different game? Or writing fan fiction?


----------



## el-remmen

It's not that I'm not a morning person, I am fine getting up to do something, it is just that I don't feel like I should have to ever talk to anyone before noon.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> It's not that I'm not a morning person, I am fine getting up to do something, it is just that I don't feel like I should have to ever talk to anyone before noon.



Especially, when I am hung over AF. (which has been too many mornings this week)


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> N00b.
> 
> Real magic users can't use crossbows.
> 
> If I see you with much more than a dagger and a staff, I'm revoking your ability join me in yelling at clouds.



And a bunch of flasks of oil


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> Especially, when I am hung over AF. (which has been too many mornings this week)




I haven't been hungover in years. I still have a beer or three on occasion - but always stop there (or have many hours between drinks). As I got older my hangovers got worse and worse from drinking less and less. I cut out hard liquor. I cut out wine. And now only beer and the occasional glass of champagne (which I love and try to get a fancy bottle for my birthdays). The first time I had a hangover that I still kind of felt two days later I was like "enough is enough." The worse is I suffer from migraines, and hangovers frequently triggered them.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I haven't been hungover in years. I still have a beer or three on occasion - but always stop there (or have many hours between drinks). As I got older my hangovers got worse and worse from drinking less and less. I cut out hard liquor. I cut out wine. And now only beer and the occasional glass of champagne (which I love and try to get a fancy bottle for my birthdays). The first time I had a hangover that I still kind of felt two days later I was like "enough is enough." The worse is I suffer from migraines, and hangovers frequently triggered them.



Im still rolling, but hear you on the older and tougher hang overs. Im looking into buying a supply of I.V.s to insert before bedtime.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> N00b.
> 
> Real magic users can't use crossbows.
> 
> If I see you with much more than a dagger and a staff, I'm revoking your ability join me in yelling at clouds.



Perhaps, but Warlocks do. In one canned 4e adventure I kept running into situations in which the attackers were consistently in places that were both physically out of reach, and beyond that magical 10 square range that all Warlock powers seemed to be limited to. Hell, in one case an NPC Shadar-Kai Warlock was both out of that range and had an Eldrich Blast of 20 squares (10 more than PC Warlocks). 

I killed her with my crossbow, simply out of spite.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Perhaps, but Warlocks do. In one canned 4e adventure I kept running into situations ….




_I’m sorry. I can’t count past 1. _
-Bernhard Riemann


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _I’m sorry. I can’t count past 1. _
> -Bernhard Riemann




_One is plenty_.
-Banach and Tarski.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _I’m sorry. I can’t count past 1. _
> -Bernhard Riemann




Ancient take:

_You get to one?!?!_
-Zeno


More modern take:

_Only an amateur would worry about that_.
-Henri Lebesgue


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _I’m sorry. I can’t count past 1. _
> -Bernhard Riemann



When you get to two, you've come full circle - Jamshid al-Kashi


----------



## trappedslider

Cadence said:


> _One is plenty_.
> -Banach and Tarski.



One is the loneliest number


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> One is the loneliest number




_Your mistake was trying to measure it._
-Giuseppe Vitali

(Which makes a lot more sense if everyone takes a semester of measure theory instead of something related to their own interests  ).


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> _One is plenty_.
> -Banach and Tarski.




_ If "There Can Be Only One" then why did they make *2*?_
- Highlander fans


----------



## CleverNickName

Scene: The session zero of my new campaign.  Seven nerds are gathered around a table with dice, a few beers, and some sandwiches.

Player:  I'm gonna roll up a ranger.
Everyone else: (groans loudly)
Player:  Come on guys, what's so bad about the ranger?
Everyone else: (talking all at once with one reason after another, each trying to outdo the last)
Player:  Okay okay, fine, sheesh.  I guess I'll play a bard instead.
Everyone else: (cries of outrage and anguish)
Player:  That's what I thought.  Ranger it is.
Everyone else:  (murmurs of surrender)


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Scene: The session zero of my new campaign.  Seven nerds are gathered around a table with dice, a few beers, and some sandwiches.
> 
> Player:  I'm gonna roll up a ranger.
> Everyone else: (groans loudly)
> Player:  Come on guys, what's so bad about the ranger?
> Everyone else: (talking all at once with one reason after another, each trying to outdo the last)
> Player:  Okay okay, fine, sheesh.  I guess I'll play a bard instead.
> Everyone else: (cries of outrage and anguish)
> Player:  That's what I thought.  Ranger it is.
> Everyone else:  (murmurs of surrender)




Is this after they spend 30 minutes discussing beer and 30 minutes discussing sandwiches?  Or is that sprinkled in over the entire session?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Is this after they spend 30 minutes discussing beer and 30 minutes discussing sandwiches?  Or is that sprinkled in over the entire session?



Only 30 minutes? Pssh.


----------



## CleverNickName

*Original:*





*Improved:


*

Yep, that's me:  correcting misinformation on the Internet, one meme at a time.


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> _ If "There Can Be Only One" then why did they make *2*?_
> - Highlander fans



Six.

... plus two different series (six seasons and one season).

So apparently, "There can be only one hundred and forty-seven!"


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Is this after they spend 30 minutes discussing beer and 30 minutes discussing sandwiches?




30 minutes discussing beer, 5 minutes establishing that pizza is an open-faced sandwich, then then 25 minutes discussing pizza _vis a vis_ pineapple


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Six.
> 
> ... plus two different series (six seasons and one season).
> 
> So apparently, "There can be only one hundred and forty-seven!"




 Well, yeah, but part* 2* was the only one out when I started making that joke, and it's funnier that way...  

And _*2 *_was a particularly egregious violation of my teenage years. Every movie after _*2*_ can be safely ignored.

The series wasn't all that bad as an extension of the original film, and the spin-off started with a decent premise but was instantly hit with the too-many-chefs issue which ultimately doomed it.


----------



## Hussar

I sometimes feel like Linus in Charlie Brown Christmas looking at different things that people are up in arms about like the way the gang reacts to the Christmas Tree.

"I didn't think it was such a bad tree after all.  Just needs some loving."


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Scene: The session zero of my new campaign.  Seven nerds are gathered around a table with dice, a few beers, and some sandwiches.
> 
> Player:  I'm gonna roll up a ranger.
> Everyone else: (groans loudly)
> Player:  Come on guys, what's so bad about the ranger?
> Everyone else: (talking all at once with one reason after another, each trying to outdo the last)
> Player:  Okay okay, fine, sheesh.  I guess I'll play a bard instead.
> Everyone else: (cries of outrage and anguish)
> Player:  That's what I thought.  Ranger it is.
> Everyone else:  (murmurs of surrender)




This makes me very happy to be running two games where no one has an opinion on what anyone else plays.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Ryujin said:


> Six.
> 
> ... plus two different series (six seasons and one season).
> 
> So apparently, "There can be only one hundred and forty-seven!"



The couldn't even confine themselves to one Highlander named MacLeod.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> This makes me very happy to be running two games where no one has an opinion on what anyone else plays.



Tell me about it. I've been talking about PF2 and it reminded me of my Druid. Another player kept "making a suggestion" that I retrain to be good at 1-2 things instead of trying to do 4-5 things. The 1-2 things of course was healbot and goodberry dispenser. ugh...


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> Tell me about it. I've been talking about PF2 and it reminded me of my Druid. Another player kept "making a suggestion" that I retrain to be good at 1-2 things instead of trying to do 4-5 things. The 1-2 things of course was healbot and goodberry dispenser. ugh...




 That's when you bust out the DeForrest Kelly impression and tell them, "Dammit, Jim, I'm a druid, not a cleric! Now <bleep> off!"


----------



## darjr

beware beware

There are traps out there.


----------



## darjr

I'd have thought folks would appreciate these things, guess not.


----------



## CleverNickName

Session zero is over.  We ended up with:

Human fighter (archaeologist background), the older brother of...
Human rogue (smuggler background),
Changeling artificer (alchemist background*),
Firbolg druid (acolyte background), and
Goliath monk (folk hero background)

All 1st level.  Let's see how far they go!

*no that's not a typo, the player created a background called "alchemist."  It's a modified Sage with custom proficiencies and specialized fields of study.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Session zero is over.  We ended up with:
> 
> Human fighter (archaeologist background), the older brother of...
> Human rogue (smuggler background),
> Changeling artificer (alchemist background*),
> Firbolg druid (acolyte background), and
> Goliath monk (folk hero background)
> 
> All 1st level.  Let's see how far they go!
> 
> *no that's not a typo, the player created a background called "alchemist."  It's a modified Sage with custom proficiencies and specialized fields of study.




This feels like it would have been ok for the thread asking for party character classes?  Miss-post or did I fail an insight check?


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Session zero is over.  We ended up with:
> 
> Human fighter (archaeologist background), the older brother of...
> Human rogue (smuggler background),
> Changeling artificer (alchemist background*),
> Firbolg druid (acolyte background), and
> Goliath monk (folk hero background)
> 
> All 1st level.  Let's see how far they go!
> 
> *no that's not a typo, the player created a background called "alchemist."  It's a modified Sage with custom proficiencies and specialized fields of study.




Is there a different flavor or rules niche between Goliath and Firbolg? They are both giant people? Not a criticism, I am just curious. I have firbolgs in my game but just as NPC giants (small giants, but giants) and have never seen wherever Goliaths are found.


----------



## darjr

I don't like it doesn't mean I hate it.

So many hours I put into it. For ex. every Wednesday night since the beginning and only dropped off near the end. Many hours at conventions.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> Is there a different flavor or rules niche between Goliath and Firbolg? They are both giant people? Not a criticism, I am just curious. I have firbolgs in my game but just as NPC giants (small giants, but giants) and have never seen wherever Goliaths are found.




Firbolg are of the forest (detect magic, disguise self, hidden step, speech of beast and leaf).

Goliaths are of the mountain peaks (athletics, mountain born, stone's endurance).


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Firbolg are of the forest (detect magic, disguise self, hidden step, speech of beast and leaf).
> 
> Goliaths are of the mountain peaks (athletics, mountain born, stone's endurance).
> 
> View attachment 263020View attachment 263021



Oh, so they are doing the elf thing with giants for PCs now?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Oh, so they are doing the elf thing with giants for PCs now?



Two seems a lot less than 6.02x10^23 though 

Goliath = big rock gnome 
Firbolg = big forest gnomes ?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> This feels like it would have been ok for the thread asking for party character classes?  Miss-post or did I fail an insight check?



Nah, just a follow-up to my earlier post from Session Zero, where my players were teasing each other about rangers and bards.  The pro-bard player decided to go with druid b/c he liked the lore and houserules I had written.



Spoiler: the lore and houserules I had written



There is a major faction in this world called The Enclave of Old, a group of druids and elves who live in a colony and share a kind of hive-mind, like bees.  The player can trade their Wildshape ability for Arcane Recovery if they wish.  The premise is that they draw fresh power from the pool of magic back at the "hive."  The player hates Wildshape, and this seemed to be an attractive substitute...albeit a boring one.

Also, there are lots of non-metal armor options for druids in this world: chitin from monstrous insects, magically altered wood that is as hard as iron, scales from various monsters, etc.  No arbitrary armor restrictions...if you want full plate for your druid, go hunt some ankhegs.

All classes start with their key skill proficiency for free (Arcana for wizard,  Perform for bard, Nature for druid, Survival for ranger, etc.)   It never sat right with me that druids had to spend one of their two skill proficiencies to get Nature, so I fixed it.

There are a few others, but these are the biggest ones.



I'm relieved to report that we don't have any bards or elves in our party.  So: no pineapple or tuna on this pizza....but lots of kale and mushrooms.


----------



## el-remmen

Ya gotta love people whose first and only post to the forums is to shill some product or you tube channel of theirs.
Oh wait. . . maybe I don't mean _love._ . .


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> There is a major faction in this world called The Enclave of Old, a group of druids and elves who live in a colony and share a kind of hive-mind, like bees.  The player can trade their Wildshape ability for Arcane Recovery if they wish.  The premise is that they draw fresh power from the pool of magic back at the "hive."  The player hates Wildshape, and this seemed to be an attractive substitute...albeit a boring one.




 Circle of the Land druids get "Natural" Recovery as part of their Circle benefits so I suppose it's a fair trade for losing Wild Shape - well, at least as long as they weren't already planning to take CoL as their Circle, lol...
 Personally, though, it sort of feels like you come up with some other minor ribbon ability to give them as well.




CleverNickName said:


> All classes start with their key skill proficiency for free (Arcana for wizard,  Perform for bard, Nature for druid, Survival for ranger, etc.)   It never sat right with me that druids had to spend one of their two skill proficiencies to get Nature, so I fixed it.




 Yeah, I've always felt that each class should get an automatic starting proficiency in something highly relevant to their class.


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> Ya gotta love people whose first and only post to the forums is to shill some product or you tube channel of theirs.
> Oh wait. . . maybe I don't mean _love._ . .




 I don't really have much problem with someone posting to say, "Hey, I did this thing you might be interested in", but it _does_ annoy me when they jump into someone's thread to do it, at least when their product is only tangentially related to the topic.


----------



## el-remmen

Mad_Jack said:


> I don't really have much problem with someone posting to say, "Hey, I did this thing you might be interested in", but it _does_ annoy me when they jump into someone's thread to do it, at least when their product is only tangentially related to the topic.



I don't know. I just feel like this place is a community and to come here just to sell something feels disrespectful - like the difference between a door-to-door salesman trying to get you to buy new phone service vs. the neighbor's kid offering girl scout cookies.


----------



## J.Quondam

Because AI fever dreams of druids in pineapple armor.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

J.Quondam said:


> Because AI fever dreams of druids in pineapple armor.
> 
> View attachment 263028



That armor would be so itchy.


----------



## prabe

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> That armor would be so itchy.



But _welcoming_.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> Because AI fever dreams of druids in pineapple armor.
> 
> View attachment 263028



Do you really want armour that would tenderize the wearer?


----------



## AnotherGuy

el-remmen said:


> I don't know. I just feel like this place is a community and to come here just to sell something feels disrespectful - like the difference between a door-to-door salesman trying to get you to buy new phone service vs. the neighbor's kid offering girl scout cookies.



There are plenty of publishers and creative types here. I welcome their RPG product material. Nixlord for instance has created three amazing Expanded Monster Manuals and he bumps his thread every time he showcases the art. I'm ok with that.
But I agree with Mad_Jack it seems disrespectful to insert your ad in another's thread.
However, if the thread relates to say an AP and how to generally improve that AP (as we have had threads like this before) and your product speaks to that general improvement, then I welcome such posts as that particular product may help those who are indeed looking for assistance or a fresh set of ideas in the running of that AP.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> I don't know. I just feel like this place is a community and to come here just to sell something feels disrespectful - like the difference between a door-to-door salesman trying to get you to buy new phone service vs. the neighbor's kid offering girl scout cookies.



The salesman popping in once seems better to me than the neighbor who always shows up whenever you're discussing Football to say all the ways Soccer* is better (every... single... time) .  But at least we can block the neighbor equivalent on here, can't do that to the person you don't know yet.

* Or insert Football and American Football as appropriate.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## payn

It's not funny or quirky because you don't like/understand it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*Confession*:

I am mostly indifferent to the One D&D Playtest. I want to care. I want to be either outraged or passionately excited. But, so far, I haven't even felt the need to joke about it. _And they have a new bard. That they're claiming is an expert. __Here's the primary expert work__ of your so-called bards._


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *Confession*:
> 
> I am mostly indifferent to the One D&D Playtest. I want to care. I want to be either outraged or passionately excited. But, so far, I haven't even felt the need to joke about it. _And they have a new bard. That they're claiming is an expert. __Here's the primary expert work__ of your so-called bards._



Quite the RickRoll you've got there


----------



## billd91

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *Confession*:
> 
> I am mostly indifferent to the One D&D Playtest. I want to care. I want to be either outraged or passionately excited. But, so far, I haven't even felt the need to joke about it. _And they have a new bard. That they're claiming is an expert. __Here's the primary expert work__ of your so-called bards._



There are some interesting things going on with it, but the conversations here are largely a PitA to deal with.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> There are some interesting things going on with it, but the conversations here are largely a PitA to deal with.



I actually think things have gotten better since the announcement. Folks have things to actually talk about instead of wild speculation and E-war axe grinding. Of course, nothing stops any of that too.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> There are some interesting things going on with it, but the conversations here are largely a PitA to deal with.




To be honest, I think if people were treating this as a playtest, and being positive (not uncritical, but positive) I would be more interested.

As it is, there's too much overt negativity. Life is change. I don't want to get all hot and bothered about playtest documents.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> To be honest, I think if people were treating this as a playtest, and being positive (not uncritical, but positive) I would be more interested.
> 
> As it is, there's too much overt negativity. Life is change. I don't want to get all hot and bothered about playtest documents.



It just occurred to me that if there is such a lack of positivity here, I cant imagine what its like on the rest of the internets.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> It just occurred to me that if there is such a lack of positivity here, I cant imagine what its like on the rest of the internets.


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> The salesman popping in once seems better to me than the neighbor who always shows up whenever you're discussing Football to say all the ways Soccer* is better (every... single... time) .  But at least we can block the neighbor equivalent on here, can't do that to the person you don't know yet.
> 
> * Or insert Football and American Football as appropriate.








I don't see that comparison at all. An annoying neighbor is one thing. They can be annoying for any number of reasons. I guess for me _any and all _salespeople cold calling me on the phone or at the door or even in the forums is a real turn off and I don't care what they're selling.  


AnotherGuy said:


> There are plenty of publishers and creative types here. I welcome their RPG product material




So do I! When they are a part of the community, sharing ideas, participating in conversations, and so on in a genuine way. Then if they announce their products in a thread, I know who they are and what they are like and can check it out. But as I said in my post, when someone shows up for the first time (and only time) to just shill the thing they've made they demonstrate seeing the community as nothing but potential consumers. Maybe in our culture today people are used to that, but I don't think I'll ever be.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> I don't see that comparison at all. An annoying neighbor is one thing. They can be annoying for any number of reasons. I guess for me _any and all _salespeople cold calling me on the phone or at the door or even in the forums is a real turn off and I don't care what they're selling.
> 
> 
> So do I! When they are a part of the community, sharing ideas, participating in conversations, and so on in a genuine way. Then if they announce their products in a thread, I know who they are and what they are like and can check it out. But as I said in my post, when someone shows up for the first time (and only time) to just shill the thing they've made they demonstrate seeing the community as nothing but potential consumers. Maybe in our culture today people are used to that, but I don't think I'll ever be.




I think I was being the annoying neighbor who uses whatever you were complaining about to springboard to what I wanted to complain about.  Doh!


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> I think I was being the annoying neighbor who uses what ever you were complaining about to springboard to what I wanted to complain about.  Doh!


----------



## Gradine

They never do get around to explaining the other half, do they


----------



## el-remmen

Gradine said:


> They never do get around to explaining the other half, do they


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


>




As my mama always told me, "Snarf, if you can't be a part of the solution, become a part of the problem."


----------



## payn

This is oddly reminding me of a convo I had at lunch with a co-worker about the movie _Throw Mamma from the Train._ I hadnt thought about that movie in years. Not sure if its even any good. Though, all this doing and asking mama about problems is taking me right back.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> This is oddly reminding me of a convo I had at lunch with a co-worker about the movie _Throw Mamma from the Train._ I hadnt thought about that movie in years. Not sure if its even any good. Though, all this doing and asking mama about problems is taking me right back.



This movie is on my wife and I's to-(re)watch list along with _Strangers on a Train _(1951) and _Do Revenge _(2022)


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> Because AI fever dreams of druids in pineapple armor.
> 
> View attachment 263028



This implies Druid pizza.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> This movie is on my wife and I's to-(re)watch list along with _Strangers on a Train _(1951) and _Do Revenge _(2022)



_Strangers on a Train _is showing at a film festival locally. Its what kicked off TMFT discussion.


----------



## CleverNickName

Druid pizza?
Yes please.









						The Druid Garden - North Bangalore's favourite Brewery & Hangout, at Sahakaranagar, Bangalore.
					

Come, experience authentic European-style craft brews, innovative cocktails, discover world cuisines, and relish fresh desserts all under one roof, at Sahakaranagar, Bangalore.




					thedruidgarden.in


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> This implies Druid pizza.




Druid pizza reeks of patchouli and has a hemp crust.

Jus' sayin'.


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> Druid pizza?
> Yes please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Druid Garden - North Bangalore's favourite Brewery & Hangout, at Sahakaranagar, Bangalore.
> 
> 
> Come, experience authentic European-style craft brews, innovative cocktails, discover world cuisines, and relish fresh desserts all under one roof, at Sahakaranagar, Bangalore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedruidgarden.in



No, not pizza Druids made, but pizza where the Druids make it….


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> No, not pizza Druids made, but pizza where the Druids make it….




What about pizza made out of druids?

I mean, there has to be a way to use up all the excess druids, and I'm sure they would approve of the recycling!


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What about pizza made out of druids?
> 
> I mean, there has to be a way to use up all the excess druids, and I'm sure they would approve of the recycling!



It’s how they advance.

No initiative required.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> It’s how they advance.
> 
> No initiative required.




YES! It's the old TSR way of advancement, for a new era.

Old hotness: To gain a level, you must find the druid above you and BATTLE THEM! 

New hotness: Skunked Hippietoes, in order to advance a level, you must cook yourself into a pizza, be eaten, and then be excreted as fertilizer. The plant that grows from that fertilizer will be a Druid of a higher level. Such is the Circle of Life!


----------



## darjr

It may be their only post, but wow I will take it!


----------



## Cadence

I kind of wonder how some of these conversations would work if each person was given a randomized username in each thread.  And how many people would be obvious right away even if they were trying not to be.


----------



## darjr

Cadence said:


> I kind of wonder how some of these conversations would work if each person was given a randomized username in each thread.  And how many people would be obvious right away even if they were trying not to be.



One word would call me out immediately.

Dint say you dint know what it is.


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> As my mama always told me, "Snarf, if you can't be a part of the solution, become a part of the problem."




My chemistry teacher always told us, "Kids, if you aren't part of the solution, you're a part of the precipitate."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I kind of wonder how some of these conversations would work if each person was given a randomized username in each thread.  And how many people would be obvious right away even if they were trying not to be.




Patterns tend to repeat.







...or so I hear.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> I kind of wonder how some of these conversations would work if each person was given a randomized username in each thread.  And how many people would be obvious right away even if they were trying not to be.



Test cases are the handful of sock-puppets that pop up on occasion.


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> YES! It's the old TSR way of advancement, for a new era.
> 
> Old hotness: To gain a level, you must find the druid above you and BATTLE THEM!
> 
> New hotness: Skunked Hippietoes, in order to advance a level, you must cook yourself into a pizza, be eaten, and then be excreted as fertilizer. The plant that grows from that fertilizer will be a Druid of a higher level. Such is the Circle of Life!



I honestly miss the old system for druids. Reminded me of JG Frazer’s The Golden Bough. High-level druids skulking around groves waiting to be murdered by their successor just screamed a different worldview.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> I honestly miss the old system for druids. Reminded me of JG Frazer’s The Golden Bough. High-level druids skulking around groves waiting to be murdered by their successor just screamed a different worldview.




TBH, I liked the idea better in theory than in practice. 

It's all fun and games until the PC gets dropped a few times.


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *Confession*:
> 
> I am mostly indifferent to the One D&D Playtest. I want to care. I want to be either outraged or passionately excited. But, so far, I haven't even felt the need to joke about it. _And they have a new bard. That they're claiming is an expert. __Here's the primary expert work__ of your so-called bards._



Most of the playtest and discussion around it is in some way related to rules-lawyering-as-playstyle i.e. optimization.  It's all about this being 'nerfed' and that being 'boosted' and the implications of the way things are worded as if these playtest documents are court decisions.  All for a game that's 1.5 years away from being published and that may or may not include any of these playtest rules.


----------



## darjr

Malmuria said:


> Most of the playtest and discussion around it is in some way related to rules-lawyering-as-playstyle i.e. optimization.  It's all about this being 'nerfed' and that being 'boosted' and the implications of the way things are worded as if these playtest documents are court decisions.  All for a game that's 1.5 years away from being published and that may or may not include any of these playtest rules.



There also seems to be a vanishingly small amount of actual play involved.


----------



## el-remmen

There should be a forum-wide rule where every time someone posts "encounters per day" or some variation they have to pay me a dollar.


----------



## darjr

el-remmen said:


> There should be a forum-wide rule where every time someone posts "encounters per day" or some variation they have to pay me a dollar.



I get 20%!


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> There should be a forum-wide rule where every time someone posts "encounters per day" or some variation they have to pay me a dollar.



What about if they talk about short rests per long rest? I think that's where the real problem those people are talking about lies ...


----------



## el-remmen

prabe said:


> What about if they talk about short rests per long rest? I think that's where the real problem those people are talking about lies ...




That counts. You now owe me a dollar. My paypal is here.


----------



## el-remmen

darjr said:


> I get 20%!




Who do I look like, Jeff Grubb??


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> That counts. You now owe me a dollar. My paypal is here.


----------



## trappedslider

Not the grand prize but still first place!


----------



## trappedslider

Hmm report the sarcasm as an attempt at thread crapping or just roll my eyes


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> TBH, I liked the idea better in theory than in practice.
> 
> It's all fun and games until the PC gets dropped a few times.



Sure. But they didn’t have to worry about that stuff until 12th level in AD&D. So it’s not like it’ll be a common problem.


----------



## Gradine

overgeeked said:


> Sure. But they didn’t have to worry about that stuff until 12th level in AD&D. So it’s not like it’ll be a common problem.



I wonder if this is what Gabe Newell was thinking when he was working on the final stages of Half-Life


----------



## Gradine

Oh goody, Satine Phoenix is trying to kick off her redemption tour already


----------



## CleverNickName

It finally happened.  You all finally wore me down to the point where I had to click Unwatch on my own Survivor thread.  I hope y'all are happy.


----------



## Cadence

If you'd just concede that your favorite pizzeria doesn't serve the goodstuff, except maybe by accident, you could probably claim a lot of your life back and use it for something beneficial (like visiting your fave pizzeria, or talking about your fave pizzeria with people who actually enjoy it too).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> If you'd just concede that your favorite pizzeria doesn't serve the goodstuff, except maybe by accident, you could probably claim a lot of your life back and use it for something beneficial (like visiting your fave pizzeria, or talking about your fave pizzeria with people who actually enjoy it too).




C'mon! Do you know what is best in life?

To visit your enemies' fave pizzerias, to complain about their toppings, and to hear your own lamentations that they can't cook pizza right.


----------



## overgeeked

It will be a good day for humanity when we manage to mature ever so fractionally and finally let go of presentism.


----------



## Cadence

Wow.  I'm wondering if that was some strange auto-correct, I'm misreading it, or if it was just extremely in-your-face.


----------



## payn

Working on a neuro-divergent shopping experience pilot for my company currently. LED lighting frequencies in store reduced and overhead music muted for first two business hours. If you know someone who may benefit or appreciate this, shoot me a PM and I'll see if we have a site in your area (U.S.).

Edit: This is happening around the Pennsylvania metro specifically and the stores are Target. I guess that makes it easier.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Working on a neuro-divergent shopping experience pilot for my company currently. LED lighting frequencies in store reduced and overhead music muted for first two business hours. If you know someone who may benefit or appreciate this, shoot me a PM and I'll see if we have a site in your area.



It occurs to me there may be people who aren't (or who don't think they are) neurodivergent who would prefer that experience. I am not at present in touch with anyone, diagnosed or otherwise, who'd benefit, but this is emphatically a positive move.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> It occurs to me there may be people who aren't (or who don't think they are) neurodivergent who would prefer that experience. I am not at present in touch with anyone, diagnosed or otherwise, who'd benefit, but this is emphatically a positive move.



I'm just a programmer on this, but others are working on the community connection part for the company. I just wanted to spread the word. I believe this kind of thing has been sporadic in our company history, but during covid a vulnerable shopping period was very popular.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Since the topic comes up on this thread occasionally, I thought I'd pass along one of the best amicus briefs I've seen in a long time- written on behalf of _The Onion_, dealing with a pending issue regarding parody.



			https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-293/242292/20221003125252896_35295545_1-22.10.03%20-%20Novak-Parma%20-%20Onion%20Amicus%20Brief.pdf
		


This might be first time anyone has ever used the phrase, "Funny for a legal document," in a way that wasn't meant as an insult.*


*Similar to, "Pretty for an airport," or "Your kid's artwork is ... interesting," or "No, really, I love to hear about your fantasy football team."


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> C'mon! Do you know what is best in life?
> 
> To visit your enemies' fave pizzerias, to complain about their toppings, and to hear your own lamentations that they can't cook pizza right.



"Conan, what  is best in life?"

"To find the one thing you don't like in the thing you like very much, and then to complain about it, loudly and publicly and in great detail, until your eyes grow dim and the Sun grows cold."


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> "No, really, I love to hear about your fantasy football team."



Funny thing about this meme is that when I started playing fantasy football I took all kinds of crap for it. "Get your nerd out of our sports" So I just learned to shut up about it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> "Conan, what  is best in life?"
> 
> "To find the one thing you don't like in the thing you like very much, and then to complain about it, loudly and publicly and in great detail, until your eyes grow dim and the Sun grows cold."


----------



## Cadence

A&B in yet another thread ostensibly about Pepperoni Pizza.

A: <Insert paragraph on how pineapple does great things pepperoni doesn't> 
But I do like both pineapple pizza and pepperoni pizza.
<Insert paragraph echoing the talking points of the people who love pineapple but don't like pepperoni>
<Note things pepperoni pizza doesn't do.>.

B: "Are you sure you actually like pepperoni on pizza?"

A: "How dare you say I don't like pepperoni, I said I did!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> A&B in yet another thread ostensibly about Pepperoni Pizza.
> 
> A: <Insert paragraph on how pineapple does great things pepperoni doesn't>
> But I do like both pineapple pizza and pepperoni pizza.
> <Insert paragraph echoing the talking points of the people who love pineapple but don't like pepperoni>
> <Note things pepperoni pizza doesn't do.>.
> 
> B: "Are you sure you actually like pepperoni on pizza?"
> 
> A: "How dare you say I don't like pepperoni, I said I did!"




It's not that I don't like pepperoni pizza. It's that I don't think pizza can have more than one topping!

And since it can only have one topping, I think that when you order a pepperoni pizza, any good pizzeria will know to put pineapple on it.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's not that I don't like pepperoni pizza. It's that I don't think pizza can have more than one topping!
> 
> And since it can only have one topping, I think that when you order a pepperoni pizza, any good pizzeria will know to put pineapple on it.



I agree. And since "cheese" is a topping, anything other than cheese pizza, just like Papa Gygaxio used to make, is-a heresy!


----------



## overgeeked

RealAlHazred said:


> I agree. And since "cheese" is a topping, anything other than cheese pizza, just like Papa Gygaxio used to make, is-a heresy!



You could say the same about the sauce. Where does the pizza stop and the topping start? For it to be a pizza it has to have a wide, flat dough base with tomato sauce (white and pesto are heresies) and cheese. What you put on top of that are the toppings.


----------



## Cadence

overgeeked said:


> You could say the same about the sauce. Where does the pizza stop and the topping start? For it to be a pizza it has to have a wide, flat dough base with tomato sauce (white and pesto are heresies) and cheese. What you put on top of that are the toppings.



When I shift managed a pizza place in college, we would periodically sell a sauceless pizza...   We also sold stuffed pizzas, so the flat dough base was supplemented with sides and a top.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> I agree. And since "cheese" is a topping, anything other than cheese pizza, just like Papa Gygaxio used to make, is-a heresy!





The true splendor of a Cheese Pizza can be appreciated only by those with an excess of weal, or the antithesis of the turpitude that bedevils modern pizzerias. Perforce, a Cheese Pizza is a strange anomaly, a binary hemispherical wheaten crust, with an incredibly piquant sauce of the most-loved member of the order of the Solanaceae. The fine offsetting bits of unctuous dairy spread on top disappears at the edges, only to amass in a perfection of globular satisfaction at the center. When properly eaten, the folding of certain slices allows the unique pooling of fat-bearing ointments to provide a luxuriant mouthfeel, while near the zenith of this triangular shard of toothsome opulence lies the bready mass that provides both handle and respite from the unending undulations of vermilion and alabaster that dance like shimmering amethyst upon your shattered damson tongue.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The true splendor of a Cheese Pizza can be appreciated only by those with an excess of weal, or the antithesis of the turpitude that bedevils modern pizzerias. Perforce, a Cheese Pizza is a strange anomaly, a binary hemispherical wheaten crust, with an incredibly piquant sauce of the most-loved member of the order of the Solanaceae. The fine offsetting bits of unctuous dairy spread on top disappears at the edges, only to amass in a perfection of globular satisfaction at the center. When properly eaten, the folding of certain slices allows the unique pooling of fat-bearing ointments to provide a luxuriant mouthfeel, while near the zenith of this triangular shard of toothsome opulence lies the bready mass that provides both handle and respite from the unending undulations of vermilion and alabaster that dance like shimmering amethyst upon your shattered damson tongue.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's not that I don't like pepperoni pizza. It's that I don't think pizza can have more than one topping!
> 
> And since it can only have one topping, I think that when you order a pepperoni pizza, any good pizzeria will know to put pineapple on it.



This is the most accurate and succinct example of game _pizza_ preferences that I've seen in a long time.


----------



## eyeheartawk

CleverNickName said:


> This is the most accurate and succinct example of game _pizza_ preferences that I've seen in a long time.


----------



## payn




----------



## Cadence

Wow...

After years of saying how the reserved list in MtG was expanded to cover non-tournament legal cards, so they couldn't even reprint them in gold border...








						Celebrate 30 Years of Magic: The Gathering with 30th Anniversary Edition | Magic: The Gathering
					

To celebrate 30 years of Magic: The Gathering, we knew we had to go big.




					magic.wizards.com
				





"[O]n sale for the holidays, available November 28 for $999 on 30thEdition.wizards.com."


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Wow...
> 
> After years of saying how the reserved list in MtG was expanded to cover non-tournament legal cards, so they couldn't even reprent them in gold border...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebrate 30 Years of Magic: The Gathering with 30th Anniversary Edition | Magic: The Gathering
> 
> 
> To celebrate 30 years of Magic: The Gathering, we knew we had to go big.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> magic.wizards.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "[O]n sale for the holidays, available November 28 for $999 on 30thEdition.wizards.com."


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


>




That it's that much for four randomized boosters, so there's a good chance of not even getting any ( not tournament playable versions) of anything on the reserved list, is spectacular.


----------



## overgeeked

payn said:


>



The owners of that house in New Mexico where they filmed had to beg people to stop throwing pizzas on their roof. That didn't work, so they put up a fence. People still climb the fence to throw pizzas on their roof.


----------



## el-remmen

overgeeked said:


> It will be a good day for humanity when we manage to mature ever so fractionally and finally let go of presentism.




Hmmm. I find the assumption that no one held the moral positions against problematic social mores because "that's the way it was" a lot more common. For example when people say something like "That attitude against [insert oppressed class] was just accepted back then," without ever considering that those people themselves most certainly objected to it.


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> Hmmm. I find the assumption that no one held the moral positions against problematic social mores because "that's the way it was" a lot more common. For example when people say something like "That attitude against [insert oppressed class] was just accepted back then," without ever considering that those people themselves most certainly objected to it.



"He was a man of his time."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> "He was a man of his time."




_Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. _


----------



## overgeeked

el-remmen said:


> Hmmm. I find the assumption that no one held the moral positions against problematic social mores because "that's the way it was" a lot more common. For example when people say something like "That attitude against [insert oppressed class] was just accepted back then," without ever considering that those people themselves most certainly objected to it.



That's funny. That's basically a restatement of presentism in a nutshell. "We have the right moral position now, but they didn't back then...well, actually, some people back then shared the moral position we have now...so we can judge those in the past who didn't share our present moral position by the standards of today." That's literally the problem. It's the assumption we now have the right moral position which is further compounded by judging the past by current moral positions. It utterly ignores that we don't have the right of all things and that in even a few years things we think of as perfectly moral can and likely will be seen as utterly monstrous. We're certainly getting better in a lot of ways and making progress, sure. But we too will be judged by some unknowable standards of the future.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> That's funny. That's basically a restatement of presentism in a nutshell. "We have the right moral position now, but they didn't back then...well, actually, some people back then shared the moral position we have now...so we can judge those in the past who didn't share our present moral position by the standards of today." That's literally the problem. It's the assumption we now have the right moral position which is further compounded by judging the past by current moral positions. It utterly ignores that we don't have the right of all things and that in even a few years things we think of as perfectly moral can and likely will be seen as utterly monstrous. We're certainly getting better in a lot of ways and making progress, sure. But we too will be judged by some unknowable standards of the future.



"We are just people of our time."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> That's funny. That's basically a restatement of presentism in a nutshell.




I told my boss that I was going to fight presentism by the continual application of absenteeism.

_It did not work out well for me_.


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> "We are just people of our time."


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> "We are just people of our time."



Speak for yourself!

Uh... I mean, I'm definitely not a time traveler!


----------



## prabe

RealAlHazred said:


> Speak for yourself!
> 
> Uh... I mean, I'm definitely not a time traveler!



You are still of your time, though, whether you're _in_ it or not.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> You are still of your time, though, whether you're _in_ it or not.



"Hey Charles its your cousin...you know Marvin Berry! You know that new equity you been looking for? Well, listen to this"


----------



## Asisreo

Well, now I'm on my soapbox, but I feel like morality isn't a necessary point of discussion. 

When it comes to recounting the lives of those who lived centuries before us, then the accurate recount as-is should be made and any moral inquiries or disagreements should be left for the audience. If not to prevent the author's bias from detracting from the recount, then to preserve the moral rights to the reader such that they get to truly understand who those people of the past are without spreading animosity. 

Because, remember, what you think is the morally correct perspective might be the morally incorrect one for someone else. And if the facts are correct in the historical record but it's sprinkled with moral judgements that isolate whatever your "in-group" is, then you may disregard the entire account, missing any historically accurate and important context. 

If the word "genocide" doesn't fire off someone's "evil" alarms, then putting the word "horrible" in front of it probably won't saude them. Now, it's important that ommisions are also a writing technique historians can use to press their morality. 

If there's a biography about "Mr. Rockstar" and it mentions all the great tours he goes through but seems to omit the fact that he stabs grandmas before every concert, then it is both an incomplete biography and it is morally biased. 

Now, what to omit is based on context but relevant events should always be recorded and recounted, whether they are charitable or despicable.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Asisreo said:


> Well, now I'm on my soapbox, but I feel like morality isn't a necessary point of discussion.




Since I am not starting new threads for the foreseeable future, this old one might be relevant.










						D&D General - The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D
					

A topic that has been regularly arising recently has concerned the continuing use of certain material in Dungeons & Dragons; sometimes the question is whether the material is problematic (as in legacy material), sometimes whether the material should be updated (as in material in newer books)...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Since I am not starting new threads for the foreseeable future



Unacceptable.  Nobody sent this to my desk for review, this change is neither approved nor authorized.

I demand an inquiry.


----------



## el-remmen

overgeeked said:


> That's funny. That's basically a restatement of presentism in a nutshell. "We have the right moral position now, but they didn't back then...well, actually, some people back then shared the moral position we have now...so we can judge those in the past who didn't share our present moral position by the standards of today." That's literally the problem. It's the assumption we now have the right moral position which is further compounded by judging the past by current moral positions. It utterly ignores that we don't have the right of all things and that in even a few years things we think of as perfectly moral can and likely will be seen as utterly monstrous. We're certainly getting better in a lot of ways and making progress, sure. But we too will be judged by some unknowable standards of the future.




I am totally willing to be judged wrong by future generations. For example, I frequently think that my willingness to eat factory  slaughterhouse meat (or meat of any kind) might be broadly considered monstrous in some future. Many people consider it monstrous now. I know I might be wrong to do so.

Anyway, if judging people of the past is presentism and wrong, I don't want to be right.  

I am pretty sure that if you asked people in Jefferson's time, if raping the 14-year old unrecognized half-sister of his wife they'd know it was wrong, except many didn't see her as a person. You may not want to judge that, but I have no issue with it, but do have an issue with those that won't.


----------



## el-remmen

Harming people is always wrong in every time. That is not complicated.


----------



## Gradine

There are also always, _always_ people, contemporaries of historical atrocities, who are very clear that it was wrong while it was happening. You just have to know where to look, and spoilers, it's very often the types of folks whose narratives don't get put in history textbooks.


----------



## Ryujin

Dammit. Now I really need a "I didn't comment in the I didn't comment in another thread" thread.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

overgeeked said:


> That's funny. That's basically a restatement of presentism in a nutshell. "We have the right moral position now, but they didn't back then...well, actually, some people back then shared the moral position we have now...so we can judge those in the past who didn't share our present moral position by the standards of today." That's literally the problem. It's the assumption we now have the right moral position which is further compounded by judging the past by current moral positions. It utterly ignores that we don't have the right of all things and that in even a few years things we think of as perfectly moral can and likely will be seen as utterly monstrous. We're certainly getting better in a lot of ways and making progress, sure. But we too will be judged by some unknowable standards of the future.



I don't think we have the right/completely perfect moral position right now . . . but I think we're better. Not all of us. There are clearly a lot of bad people around. But progress has been made. Here are some examples just from the United States within the past couple of centuries. 

It's no longer illegal for "ugly people" (aka, disabled and extremely poor people) to go out in public. Women can vote. Slavery is (mostly) illegal. People of color can vote. LGBTQ+ people are being discriminated against way less and are more accepted than ever before. 

That is not to say that we are perfect and don't have issues. We do. We have a lot of them. Disabled people, women, people of color, and the LGBTQ+ community are still discriminated against. Slavery is still legal in prisons. The "justice" system punishes the poor and BIPOC more than the white and rich. Climate change is a problem that keeps getting worse and progress is happening slowly. Wealth inequality is worse than ever before. The internet is increasing extremism and allowing for extreme groups to coordinate better. 

We have a lot of problems and some of them are getting worse. But there has been a lot of progress. In a lot of ways, we are better than we used to be. Women have almost as many rights as men. The majority of people of color aren't enslaved. LGBTQ+ people are safer to be themselves in public. That is progress. That is better than it used to be. It is okay to look back on the past and judge people for not being better because recognizing the problem is the first step to improving. And I hope that in the future people will look back at modern society's many, many problems and judge us as remnants of a deeply troubled period of time. If we get to a state where systemic oppression, prison slavery, the climate crisis, extreme wealth inequality, and internet-fueled extremism are things of the past, they will be right to judge us for not being better. 

Things have gotten better and things can get better. Ignoring that and saying "humanity is always the same, we never change and shouldn't judge people from previous time periods" is a bad ideology. If we do that, we get filled with apathy and will never take the first step towards progress.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Asisreo said:


> If there's a biography about "Mr. Rockstar" and it mentions all the great tours he goes through but seems to omit the fact that he stabs grandmas before every concert, then it is both an incomplete biography and it is morally biased.



Well, now I'm feeling *called out.*..


----------



## Asisreo

RealAlHazred said:


> Well, now I'm feeling *called out.*..



Good, maybe you'll learn not to STAB MY GRANDMA!


----------



## overgeeked

el-remmen said:


> I am totally willing to be judged wrong by future generations.



We won’t have a choice. Short of ensuring there will be no future generations to judge us.


el-remmen said:


> For example, I frequently think that my willingness to eat factory  slaughterhouse meat (or meat of any kind) might be broadly considered monstrous in some future. Many people consider it monstrous now. I know I might be wrong to do so.



Good example. Another being the use of fossil fuels and the destruction of the environment.


el-remmen said:


> Anyway, if judging people of the past is presentism and wrong, I don't want to be right.



Judging people of the past _by today’s standards_ is presentism. As the poster above mentioned, it’s not the job of the historian (even amateurs) to bias history. Presentism is bias.


el-remmen said:


> I am pretty sure that if you asked people in Jefferson's time, if raping the 14-year old unrecognized half-sister of his wife they'd know it was wrong, except many didn't see her as a person. You may not want to judge that, but I have no issue with it, but do have an issue with those that won't.



The problem is assuming we’re right without acknowledging the possibility of being wrong. Ignoring that morals change over time. Pretending there’s no bias inherent in that. Our morals are a product of our time, they’re not special in any way. Again, we will inevitably be viewed as just as monstrous as Jefferson. Or, morality will swing darker. And those in that present will judge us by their standards. There’s no objective morality to point to so pretending as if there were is a terrible idea.

I have no problem saying rape, slavery, and racism is wrong. And I’d be happy to be judged for that. But we could all use a bit of humility and maybe slow down on the stupid assumption that our views are somehow morally superior when they just as trash as any other time. Just trash in different ways. Gain ground here, lose ground there.


el-remmen said:


> Harming people is always wrong in every time. That is not complicated.



It’s far more complicated that you’re presenting.

For example, is it wrong to harm someone to prevent them from harming you or your loved ones? According to your simplistic statement of morality, yes, it’s wrong to protect yourself and your loved ones. But what are the chances of you _not_ stepping in and inflicting harm to prevent someone from hurting you or a loved one? Zero? One in a million?

Or is it wrong to inflict harm in protecting strangers from harm? Again, your simplistic statement of morality says, yes, it’s wrong.

Good thing the Allies disagreed with you or the world would be speaking German. There are certain times when violence is not only justified but necessary, unfortunately.


----------



## overgeeked

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> I don't think we have the right/completely perfect moral position right now . . . but I think we're better. Not all of us. There are clearly a lot of bad people around. But progress has been made. Here are some examples just from the United States within the past couple of centuries.



Agreed. It’s the assumption that we’re right and judging the past by the standards of today that’s the problem. We’re not perfect. We should step down from our high horse.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

overgeeked said:


> Agreed. *It’s the assumption that we’re right and judging the past by the standards of today that’s the problem. *We’re not perfect. We should step down from our high horse.



But we are right to judge them for all the terrible things they did. Slavery, women being property, LGBTQ+ people being shunned and killed, disabled and neurodivergent people being extremely mistreated, and all of that terrible stuff that happened in the past is objectively bad and we should judge the past for doing those terrible things. 

But we also do some pretty bad stuff. And we need to stop. And if/when we stop doing all of the terrible things involved in modern society, a future society not burdened by those problems will be 100% justified to look back on us with scorn and say that we were wrong for doing those things. Admitting faults in society (past and present) is the only way that we can make progress and grow better. We should judge people of the past for doing bad things and people of the future should judge us for doing bad things.


----------



## trappedslider

I got the gloves done for my cosplay


----------



## overgeeked

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> is objectively bad



In the few thousand years of “Western Civilization” and philosophy stretching back to the ancient Greeks, we’ve yet to discover what is objectively good or bad, right or wrong. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Zeno, Seneca, Kant, Camus, Hume, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer…none have done it. Many have made claims and made arguments. Many others have refuted those claims and poked giant holes in those arguments. If you’ve discovered objective morality I’d write down your argument and submit it to a journal. You might win a prize.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

overgeeked said:


> In the few thousand years of “Western Civilization” and philosophy stretching back to the ancient Greeks, we’ve yet to discover what is objectively good or bad, right or wrong. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Zeno, Seneca, Kant, Camus, Hume, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer…none have done it. Many have made claims and made arguments. Many others have refuted those claims and poked giant holes in those arguments. If you’ve discovered objective morality I’d write down your argument and submit it to a journal. You might win a prize.



Discrimination, rape, slavery, and genocide are bad things. Anyone that disagrees is a bad person and they should be judged for their character and actions. 

I don't care about a single unifying theory of objective morality. You know it when you see it.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> I got the gloves done for my cosplay



Train conductor?


----------



## overgeeked

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Discrimination, rape, slavery, and genocide are bad things.



I agree. I just try really hard to not confuse my opinion with fact.


Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> I don't care about a single unifying theory of objective morality.



Nothing so grand is necessary. Even a simple statement about what's objectively moral would be more than enough to win a prize. As long as it survived argumentation that is. A good chunk of modern philosophy is stuck on the is-ought problem. If you've solved that, good for you.


Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> You know it when you see it.



That's an historically terrible means of identifying abstract concepts. Famously porn was defined thus for decades. That definition was used to suppress and censor a lot of historically and culturally significant art.


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> Train conductor?



No, Chandra from Magic: The Gathering
_
I better be getting credit for the philosophy class I'm in.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Unacceptable.  Nobody sent this to my desk for review, this change is neither approved nor authorized.
> 
> I demand an inquiry.


----------



## Cadence

"Well that was a useful reply."  <- Evergreen


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> There goes the neighborhood.




I knew what I was talking about when I posted this.


----------



## Umbran

overgeeked said:


> That's literally the problem.




No.

"The problem" is that as humans, we take a great many opportunities to neglect the welfare of others, and accept or create a great many excuses or apologia for doing so.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> The one thing that gets me is when you make a comment and someone responds with something like, "Well, that's just your opinion." Well DUH! Whose opinion would I be using?




When folks _phrase_ things as statement of facts, they should not expect folks to respond as if it were a statement of opinion.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I knew what I was talking about when I posted this.



_They got a committee to get me off the block
'Cause I say my rhymes loud and I say 'em nonstop
Because being bad news is what we're all about
We went to White Castle and we got thrown out_


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> When folks _phrase_ things as statement of facts, they should not expect folks to respond as if it were a statement of opinion.



Sometimes people just need to read comments with a bit of a more generous attitude, instead of jumping to the conclusion that someone is stating what they think is an objective fact


----------



## el-remmen

If I say, "Pineapple Pizza is good, " I think the safe and smart thing to do is assume it is my opinion and it doesn't require push back or attempted diminishment as "just [my] opinion." I think it makes the person who does seem kind of defensive and dim.

If I say, "Pineapple Pizza causes cancer," I think it is fair to push back on that because it is stated as a statement of fact without room for that being an opinion. Heck, even if I say, "In my opinion, Pineapple Pizza causes cancer," I'd still deserve pushback because stating that it is an opinion does not obviate the factual aspect of the statement.

All that being said, Snarf's posts are good but _might _cause cancer.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> All that being said, Snarf's posts are good but _might _cause cancer.




Anything good does!

There is nothing worse than a person without a single redeeming vice.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Sometimes people just need to read comments with a bit of a more generous attitude, instead of jumping to the conclusion that someone is stating what they think is an objective fact




Sorry, I don't think it is good communication practice to blame the audience when the fix on the authorial side is so minor.

Like, above.  I could have said, "It is not good communication practice".  But I said, "I don't think it is...," fully establishing this as my opinion with a small phrasing change.

We can go into some of the reasons why authors resist such, but some of them are not particularly complimentary.  One of the most basic is, "I can't be arsed to pay that much attention to what I write."  To which my response is that if that author cares so little, I don't see why the audience should care enough about the author to give the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## Cadence

I will not search through all of their old posts to find examples... I will not search through all of their old posts to find examples...  (This would be easier if searching through all of their old posts to find examples didn't temporarily get me out of grading...)


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> If I say, "Pineapple Pizza is good, " I think the safe and smart thing to do is assume it is my opinion and it doesn't require push back or attempted diminishment as "just [my] opinion." I think it makes the person who does seem kind of defensive and dim.
> 
> If I say, "Pineapple Pizza causes cancer," I think it is fair to push back on that because it is stated as a statement of fact without room for that being an opinion. Heck, even if I say, "In my opinion, Pineapple Pizza causes cancer," I'd still deserve pushback because stating that it is an opinion does not obviate the factual aspect of the statement.
> 
> All that being said, Snarf's posts are good but _might _cause cancer.



More than once I've been called out for saying that "Pineapple Pizza is good", as if I think that I'm making some statement of universal truth. I shouldn't have to qualify it as being my opinion when it clearly is my opinion, even if it's also a universal truth


----------



## el-remmen

Funny, when I teach writing I tell students to get rid of qualifiers like "I think" unless absolutely necessary in favor of 1.  a more confident tone in your writing, and 2. using more engaging qualifiers that brings your reader into the way you are thinking. So for example, instead of "I think pineapple pizza is good," something like, "It is important to consider that pineapple pizza is good, in order to. . ."


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> More than once I've been called out for saying that "Pineapple Pizza is good", as if I think that I'm making some statement of universal truth. I shouldn't have to qualify it as being my opinion when it clearly is my opinion, even if it's also a universal truth




You won't get an argument from me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> You won't get an argument from me.




I know. THAT'S WHY I'M HERE!


----------



## overgeeked

Umbran said:


> No.
> 
> "The problem" is that as humans, we take a great many opportunities to neglect the welfare of others, and accept or create a great many excuses or apologia for doing so.



I was referring to the problem with presentism. But yes, you present another problem. One of many we face as humans. Weirdly, a whole lot seem to stem from a lack of empathy for our fellow travellers.


----------



## Cadence

I just misread something as antagonostic (instead of -istic)... and now I'm wondering about a sect dedicated to antagonosticisim.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> Sometimes people just need to read comments with a bit of a more generous attitude, instead of jumping to the conclusion that someone is stating what they think is an objective fact



A whole lot of internet arguments seem to boil down to people going out of their way to find some pointlessly stupid thing to argue about and/or willfully reading others’ posts in the worst way possible in order to argue. “But you didn’t say ‘in my opinion’ at the start of your post…” is a clear example of that. If someone’s that pedantic they’re not worth responding to.


----------



## overgeeked

Also, for the actual topic of the thread…

It’s impossible to have an honest conversation with someone who’s holding a gun to your head.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> Funny, when I teach writing I tell students to get rid of qualifiers like "I think" unless absolutely necessary in favor of 1.  a more confident tone in your writing, and 2. using more engaging qualifiers that brings your reader into the way you are thinking. So for example, instead of "I think pineapple pizza is good," something like, "It is important to consider that pineapple pizza is good, in order to. . ."



That's something I learnt, long ago, when writing business communications. It carries over into my daily life. Whether or not I intend to write as if trying to steer someone to my school of thought it seems to come out that way, though that shouldn't be interpreted as my attempting to present something as fact. If it is then that's on the reader, not me. There's a definite difference.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> A whole lot of internet arguments seem to boil down to people going out of their way to find some pointlessly stupid thing to argue about and/or willfully reading others’ posts in the worst way possible in order to argue. “But you didn’t say ‘in my opinion’ at the start of your post…” is a clear example of that. If someone’s that pedantic they’re not worth responding to.



At times I have essentially been forced to say "in my opinion" because someone has been wilfully interpreting my statements of opinion, as if I was presenting them as fact.


----------



## prabe

If someone fails to understand something you wrote, it's worth considering the possibility you didn't write it as clearly as you intended to. Not all failure to understand can be laid at the feet of the reader.


----------



## J.Quondam

overgeeked said:


> A whole lot of internet arguments seem to boil down to people going out of their way to find some pointlessly stupid thing to argue about and/or willfully reading others’ posts in the worst way possible in order to argue. “But you didn’t say ‘in my opinion’ at the start of your post…” is a clear example of that. If someone’s that pedantic they’re not worth responding to.


----------



## el-remmen

prabe said:


> If someone fails to understand something you wrote, it's worth considering the possibility you didn't write it as clearly as you intended to. Not all failure to understand can be laid at the feet of the reader.




You won't get an argument from me! This is why one of the exercises I do with students is breaking them into groups of three or four, share their drafts, and then have to listen to what the others in the group think the sample is saying (without getting to respond until they are done).


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> If someone fails to understand something you wrote, it's worth considering the possibility you didn't write it as clearly as you intended to. Not all failure to understand can be laid at the feet of the reader.



Certainly not, however, some people just want to interpret things the way that they want to interpret them. On this board there have been several times that I've been berated for AGREEING with a poster.


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> Certainly not, however, some people just want to interpret things the way that they want to interpret them. On this board there have been several times that I've been berated for AGREEING with a poster.




My favorite is when someone posts X, I spend the time to explain why I think X is wrong and it is actually Y, and they return to say they meant Y all along! It feels like gaslighting.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Certainly not, however, some people just want to interpret things the way that they want to interpret them. On this board there have been several times that I've been berated for AGREEING with a poster.



Absolutely. It is also true that not all failures to communicate can be heaped on the writers' head.

In other news, motivated reasoning is a helluva drug.


----------



## overgeeked

prabe said:


> If someone fails to understand something you wrote, it's worth considering the possibility you didn't write it as clearly as you intended to. Not all failure to understand can be laid at the feet of the reader.



It’s almost as if the solution is more empathy and understanding, not less.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> My favorite is when someone posts X, I spend the time to explain why I think X is wrong and it is actually Y, and they return to say they meant Y all along! It feels like gaslighting.



If I'm objectively wrong about something then I'll likely admit it. Why not? But if I'm being talked down to, it's best to just walk away. I know that my response will not be... civil.


----------



## CleverNickName

Which do you think will happen first:

EN World members agreeing on what "a psion" should be, or
EN World members agreeing on what a "marshal" should be, or
EN World members agreeing on what a "gish" should be, or
the eventual heat-death of the universe?


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> Which do you think will happen first:
> 
> EN World members agreeing on what "a psion" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "marshal" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "gish" should be, or
> the eventual heat-death of the universe?



No Ranger?


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> No Ranger?



Isn't it the third on the list?


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> Which do you think will happen first:
> 
> EN World members agreeing on what "a psion" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "marshal" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "gish" should be



Not sure about any of those but I expect to be building igloos in Hell long before any of them occur.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Which do you think will happen first:
> 
> EN World members agreeing on what "a psion" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "marshal" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "gish" should be, or
> the eventual heat-death of the universe?



I, for one, welcome our entropic overlords.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> Which do you think will happen first:
> 
> EN World members agreeing on what "a psion" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "marshal" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "gish" should be, or
> the eventual heat-death of the universe?



Heat-death of the universe. Definitely.

Did you mean martial there as in a non-magical fighter type or marshal as in an old west lawman?


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> Did you mean martial there as in a non-magical fighter type or marshal as in an old west lawman?



I meant the non-magical fighter type, but didn't want to say it directly because that always starts an argument.  "Yes yes, we know that 4th Edition isn't 5th Edition, thanks for noticing."


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> Which do you think will happen first:
> 
> EN World members agreeing on what "a psion" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "marshal" should be, or
> EN World members agreeing on what a "gish" should be, or
> the eventual heat-death of the universe?



Heat death of the universe, but only assuming _* something * * something *_ druids in metal armor.


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> Not sure about any of those but I expect to be building igloos in Hell long before any of them occur.



Levistus would like a word.


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> Isn't it the third on the list?



That’s it! Roll for initiative!


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I meant the non-magical fighter type, but didn't want to say it directly because that always starts an argument.  "Yes yes, we know that 4th Edition isn't 5th Edition, thanks for noticing."



But... Warlord... shouting... Drill Sergeant... LANDRU! GUIDE US!


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> But... Warlord... shouting... Drill Sergeant... LANDRU! GUIDE US!




STOP! Don't you know what happens if you name that class three times????????


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> I kind of wonder how some of these conversations would work if each person was given a randomized username in each thread.  And how many people would be obvious right away even if they were trying not to be.




 I clearly would be obvious, since in the entire time I've been on this forum I've yet to post anything meaningful and just polluted the place with snark and memes...


----------



## Cadence

Mad_Jack said:


> I clearly would be obvious, since in the entire time I've been on this forum I've yet to post anything meaningful and just polluted the place with snark and memes...




Wait, is that supposed to limit i.... ah, almost went looking into the snark for meaning.  ;-)


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> Wait, is that supposed to limit i.... ah, almost went looking into the snark for meaning.  ;-)




 Never assume that anything I post has meaning, unless it does.

I'm basically just a live action version of Statler and Waldorf, whose sole purpose is to provide amusing commentary. Well, that, and I'm an agent of chaos, whose sole purpose is to poke things with sticks.


----------



## darjr

Mad_Jack said:


> Never assume that anything I post has meaning, unless it does.



That’s deep….


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> Never assume that anything I post has meaning, unless it does.
> 
> I'm basically just a live action version of Statler and Waldorf, whose sole purpose is to provide amusing commentary. Well, that, and I'm an agent of chaos, whose sole purpose is to poke things with sticks.



Is that you, Siegfried? Or is it The Kraw? No, not The Kraw, THE KRAW!


----------



## darjr

I hat to say it. But so far the best actual D&D movie is the trailer for the March 2023 one.


----------



## Gradine

darjr said:


> I hat to say it. But so far the best actual D&D movie is the trailer for the March 2023 one.


----------



## darjr

Gradine said:


>



I’m going to watch the movie so I can make this man burn with envy! Even if it’s just a small contribution.

Because there is zero chance I could in any other way.


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> I’m going to watch the movie so I can make this man burn with envy! Even if it’s just a small contribution.
> 
> Because there is zero chance I could in any other way.


----------



## darjr

Envious?!


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> Envious?!
> View attachment 263300


----------



## overgeeked

I don't know why it bugs me so much, but it's "in media_*s*_ res". There's an "s" on the end of "media" in that phrase. I knew the latin phrase and when I saw it in the WEG Star Wars book spelled wrong I pointed it out. My friends were incredulous. No way I could know better than "professional designers and writers". And yet, I did. We didn't have a name for it back in the day, but that was my first run in with what's become known as the Mandela Effect. WEG repeated the error in the 2E and 2E Revised and Expanded books, along with the FF 1E reprints. At least the REUP people got it right.

I realized quite early that designers and writers are human and capable of mistakes. As a result I don't venerate them or the game rules anywhere near as much as many of my friends do. The designers aren't gods, they're people like you. The rules aren't holy, they're someone's house rules that you paid for.


----------



## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> I don't know why it bugs me so much, but it's "in media_*s*_ res". There's an "s" on the end of "media" in that phrase. I knew the latin phrase and when I saw it in the WEG Star Wars book spelled wrong I pointed it out. My friends were incredulous. No way I could know better than "professional designers and writers". And yet, I did. We didn't have a name for it back in the day, but that was my first run in with what's become known as the Mandela Effect. WEG repeated the error in the 2E and 2E Revised and Expanded books, along with the FF 1E reprints. At least the REUP people got it right.
> 
> I realized quite early that designers and writers are human and capable of mistakes. As a result I don't venerate them or the game rules anywhere near as much as many of my friends do. The designers aren't gods, they're people like you. The rules aren't holy, they're someone's house rules that you paid for.



Look, when I took Latin in the prehistoric ages (i.e., about 40 years ago), I learned the declensions. "Into the middle of things" is "_in media res_" -- I remember looking and there was no declension of _medias _in the declension table for _medium_. Looking it up now on Wiktionary, I see that's still the case. I don't know anything about Latin anymore, but I remember a particularly heated nerd debate in the lunchroom at my school. Heck, I'm not sure why it's not "_in medium rerum_" -- isn't that the more correct form?


----------



## trappedslider

darjr said:


> That’s deep….



no this The Deep


----------



## overgeeked

RealAlHazred said:


> Look, when I took Latin in the prehistoric ages (i.e., about 40 years ago), I learned the declensions. "Into the middle of things" is "_in media res_" -- I remember looking and there was no declension of _medias _in the declension table for _medium_. Looking it up now on Wiktionary, I see that's still the case. I don't know anything about Latin anymore, but I remember a particularly heated nerd debate in the lunchroom at my school. Heck, I'm not sure why it's not "_in medium rerum_" -- isn't that the more correct form?



Horace used _in medias res_ in _Ars Poetica_ circa 13 BCE, so I'll defer to his knowledge of Latin.

I remember arguments about how it shouldn't actually be _carpe diem_.


----------



## Cadence

overgeeked said:


> Horace used _in medias res_ in _Ars Poetica_ circa 13 BCE, so I'll defer to his knowledge of Latin.
> 
> I remember arguments about how it shouldn't actually be _carpe diem_.




It makes me think I'd be better getting to grading that homework pile...









						Why *In medias res* and not *In media res*?
					

Wikipedia gives literal translation as: Into the middle of things.  As far as I am aware into – in takes accusative.  Plural accusative of medium seems to be media, not medias  Even if I am




					latin.stackexchange.com


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> I remember arguments about how it shouldn't actually be _carpe diem_.




I love to order _carpe diem_ when I go out to eat! That's the fish of the day, right?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> It makes me think I'd be better getting to grading that homework pile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why *In medias res* and not *In media res*?
> 
> 
> Wikipedia gives literal translation as: Into the middle of things.  As far as I am aware into – in takes accusative.  Plural accusative of medium seems to be media, not medias  Even if I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> latin.stackexchange.com




Why did you post that????

Now I want to start going around saying, _in medium rarem. _


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Why did you post that????
> 
> Now I want to start going around saying, _in medium rarem. _




Darn you, now I want steak.


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> no this The Deep



And this is Depp:


----------



## trappedslider

So, this happened a few hours ago while playing CP77


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Darn you, now I want steak.




I want a third level magic user. A medium Rary.


----------



## Gradine

No Akira slide for you


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I want a third level magic user. A medium Rary.



Just a pinch of bat guano...


----------



## Umbran

overgeeked said:


> I was referring to the problem with presentism.




Presentism is largely about how we judge the past for how they treated their fellow humans, so these are not clearly separable.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> It makes me think I'd be better getting to grading that homework pile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why *In medias res* and not *In media res*?
> 
> 
> Wikipedia gives literal translation as: Into the middle of things.  As far as I am aware into – in takes accusative.  Plural accusative of medium seems to be media, not medias  Even if I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> latin.stackexchange.com



Thank you. Reading that thread gave me PTSD flashbacks to Latin class.


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> Just a pinch of bat guano...



I've read about Rary. There's not enough bat guano in the world for _that _guy...


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> So, this happened a few hours ago while playing CP77



I remember riding right through a Raffen Shiv ambush at such high speed I barely registered they were there. Good thing I did, I could use the extra eddies!


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


> I remember riding right through a Raffen Shiv ambush at such high speed I barely registered they were there. Good thing I did, I could use the extra eddies!



I honestly wasn't aiming to hit anyone, I just wanted to stop with a cool slide


----------



## trappedslider

Knew I should have reported the nitpicky post.....


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Levistus would like a word.



Yes. Yes, he would.


----------



## Cadence

If we drop the hyperbole, what's left!?!?!

----

Anyway, I can't believe how many people were upset when we updated the Meat Lovers(TM) pizza that was thick crust and had ham, pepperoni, bacon,  and Italian sausage with tomato based pizza sauce and mozzarella to Canadian bacon, Salami, ground beef, and chorizo with white sauce and parmesan/provolone mix on a thin crust.  Not only did they say it wasn't a real Meat Lovers (TM) pizza and try out a bunch of other pizzerias, but now that we went back to mostly the old way they won't let us offer any of those toppings or options at all (go ahead, ask for thin crust and see how they explode - or even say Canadian bacon out loud!!).  The way they act you would have thought we were calling pineapple a meat and trying to put Tuna on it too!


----------



## prabe

A masterclass in missing the point, in four sentences. Brah-vo!


----------



## Cadence

Trying to resist... and failing.

"If everyone is a caster..."


----------



## el-remmen

I need to stop.


----------



## payn

Its a sad state of pizza these days. Folks who do not think pineapple should be on pizza are shrugging off new potential pizza chefs that not only eat pineapple pizza, but lie and are hypocritical about it. It's just become too important for anti-pineapple chefs to be in the kitchen to worry about character or integrity for these folks.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I need to stop.


----------



## el-remmen

_"Because [D&D] is a gradual series of revelations / That occur over a period of time / It's not some carefully crafted story / It's a mess, and we're all gonna die. . "_

So if you've followed my posts for any time or read my campaign story hours you know it is a hobby horse of mine to push against the idea of D&D as a story game with notions of closure or emulating narrative or cinematic conventions as a goal of the game or even any particular scene or encounter.

This is the place where if I were @Snarf Zagyg,  I'd have a subtitle that said something like "_Every time I hear someone say 'Everything happens for a reason'_ _I want to punch them in the face just to prove them right."_

I was listening to NPR's F_resh Air_ the other day and the guest host (Terry Gross was on vacay, which is why I bothered listening) was interviewing Rachel Bloom. I have never watched _Crazy Ex-Girlfriend_ but they played a clip of one of the songs from it and I fell in love with the song (embedded below + lyrics). Not only because I agree with its view of life_. . . _but because that is my ideal view of D&D. If you listen to it with D&D in mind, it really kinda works. It makes me think of how in my longest and most successful D&D campaign, while the PCs resolved what became the central concern of the game, there were still about a dozen loose threads and the game ended _satisfactorily _after 5+ years (real-time) with the party dissolving to pursue whichever of those mattered most to them, some of which would put the PCs - now fast friends - into conflict. The End.  Everyone loved it.

Also the lyric about "People aren't characters. They're complicated / And their choices don't always make sense" makes me think of all the times I've witnessed players argue about the in-game choices of another "not making sense" (something I would put the kibosh on these days). The people who play D&D characters are not characters themselves.

Anyway, I was gonna start a thread about this, but then I decided, what's the point? I'll share it in that wackadoo thread instead.




> So this is the end of the movie
> Whoa, whoa, whoa
> But real life isn't a movie
> No, no, no
> 
> You want things to be wrapped up neatly
> The way that stories do
> You're looking for answers
> But answers aren't looking for you
> 
> Because life is a gradual series of revelations
> That occur over a period of time
> It's not some carefully crafted story
> It's a mess, and we're all gonna die
> 
> If you saw a movie that was like real life
> You'd be like, "What the hell was that movie about?
> It was really all over the place"
> Life doesn't make narrative sense
> Nuh-uh
> 
> We tell ourselves that we're in a movie
> Whoa, whoa, whoa
> Each one of us thinks we've got the starring role
> Role, role, role
> 
> But the truth is, sometimes you're the lead
> And sometimes you're an extra
> Just walking by in the background
> Like me, Josh Groban!
> 
> Because life is a gradual series of revelations
> That occur over a period of time
> Some things might happen that seem connected
> But there's not always a reason or rhyme
> 
> People aren't characters. They're complicated
> And their choices don't always make sense
> That being said, it's really messed-up
> That you banged your ex-boyfriend's dad
> 
> Oh, never bang your ex-boyfriend's dad


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> tl; dr



So, if somebody wants to use D&D to make it play like a movie, that's fine. It's not how I usually like to run, but I can adjust my style if that's what people want and I've run that way at conventions and game days for people who like more scripted play. If they try it out and it works for them, that's great! I hope everybody has fun!


----------



## CleverNickName

"It's pointless!  Well, except for that point.  And that one too, that's a good point.  Oh and that one.  And that one, and that one..."


----------



## Cadence

So, if I managed to avoid commenting on something in another thread, but came here to brag about having done so, do I lose any good karma from the initial act?


----------



## trappedslider

Cadence said:


> So, if I managed to avoid commenting on something in another thread, but came here to brag about having done so, do I lose any good karma from the initial act?



yes


----------



## el-remmen

RealAlHazred said:


> So, if somebody wants to use D&D to make it play like a movie, that's fine. It's not how I usually like to run, but I can adjust my style if that's what people want and I've run that way at conventions and game days for people who like more scripted play. If they try it out and it works for them, that's great! I hope everybody has fun!




I have no problem if people want to play that way. I just get annoyed (perhaps unreasonably so) when the assumption is that the game makes stories or plays out stories, rather than stories are made out of what happens - if you see the difference. As a GM I do not find, "that is what'd happen in X movie or novel" a compelling argument for allowing something. I'm not into playing or running D&D that way. I know there are other RPGs specifically designed to make stories. I would be willing to try one of those.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> So, if I managed to avoid commenting on something in another thread, but came here to brag about having done so, do I lose any good karma from the initial act?




_Karma is justice without the satisfaction._
-The Dalai Lama


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> So, if I managed to avoid commenting on something in another thread, but came here to brag about having done so, do I lose any good karma from the initial act?



Yep.  That's the irony of this thread.


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> I have no problem if people want to play that way. I just get annoyed (perhaps unreasonably so) when the assumption is that the game makes stories or plays out stories, rather than stories are made out of what happens - if you see the difference. As a GM I do not find, "that is what'd happen in X movie or novel" a compelling argument for allowing something. I'm not into playing or running D&D that way. I know there are other RPGs specifically designed to make stories. I would be willing to try one of those.



If you're talking about FATE, yes absolutely. It's designed to lean into the movie tropes, and does so very effectively. You're not gaming for the same things as in, say D&D or whatever. The metacurrency of the game is tokens, and you get them for leaning into the tropes, so that the game will encourage that sort of play.

In a game like D&D, the metacurrency is experience points and gold pieces. So, it encourages activities that gain the character more of that -- adventuring. That's what it encourages.

I agree completely that player assumptions can make or ruin a session, which is why, when starting with a new table, I try to manage expectations and question the players to see what kind of gameplay they're looking for.


----------



## Gradine

I have a confession to make.

I haven't been able to eat pizza in months.

Even trying like my favorite types of pizza, it just all tastes terrible to me now.

What have I become?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Gradine said:


> What have I become?



Free.


----------



## Gradine

eyeheartawk said:


> Free.


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> I have a confession to make.
> 
> I haven't been able to eat pizza in months.
> 
> Even trying like my favorite types of pizza, it just all tastes terrible to me now.
> 
> What have I become?



Sad, probably?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> What have I become?




Inability to enjoy pizza is the first step in the transformation, Gradine.


----------



## overgeeked

Wanting the game to be prescriptive and limited to only your singular style of play is like going to a restaurant and expecting them to not only already know what you want but to only serve that. Some niche restaurants specialize and serve what you want. But going to the biggest fast-food burger joint in the country and expecting three-star pan-seared chicken and asparagus over a bed of creamy risotto is 100% a you problem.


----------



## payn

overgeeked said:


> Wanting the game to be prescriptive and limited to only your singular style of play is like going to a restaurant and expecting them to not only already know what you want but to only serve that. Some niche restaurants specialize and serve what you want. But going to the biggest fast-food burger joint in the country and expecting three-star pan-seared chicken and asparagus over a bed of creamy risotto is 100% a you problem.



Yes, its a problem not knowing the type of restaurant you are attending. A lot of folks assume the restaurant should be a buffet.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Yes, its a problem not knowing the type of restaurant you are attending. A lot of folks assume the restaurant should be a buffet.



"What do you mean you don't have oatmeal?!  I thought this was a _restaurant, _that you served _actual food._"
"Sir, this is a pizza shop."


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> "What do you mean you don't have oatmeal?!  I thought this was a _restaurant, _that you served _actual food._"
> "Sir, this is a pizza shop."



....but what if its _pizza ranch_??? Fetch me my oatmeal!!


----------



## overgeeked

payn said:


> Yes, its a problem not knowing the type of restaurant you are attending. A lot of folks assume the restaurant should be a buffet.



Or, like around here, they intentionally go to a buffet then endlessly complain that it’s not a specialty restaurant focusing on their favorite dish.

“Sir or madam, we must ask you to kindly stop berating the bus boys as they have no control over what’s in the trough. Yes, we’re all quite aware you want an authentic Cubano hand-made by actual Cubans, but this is a buffet in Ohio. Perhaps going to an actual Cuban restaurant might be a good place to start.”


----------



## CleverNickName

*Scenes from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
Act VII, Scene XXVII

Tasha's: * Welcome to Tash--oh, it's _you_.
*Customer: * Okay so the worst thing about pineapple is--
*Tasha's: * (grabs broom, climbs over counter)
*Customer: * Gah!  Not the broom!!
*Tasha's: * I told you to stay out.  Go on, git!  Shoo!
*Customer: * (from the sidewalk)  I THOUGHT YOU LIKED PIZZA!
*Tasha's:  *They don't pay me enough for this.


----------



## overgeeked

Cadence said:


> So, if I managed to avoid commenting on something in another thread, but came here to brag about having done so, do I lose any good karma from the initial act?



I don’t think it’s about karma. I think it’s about trying to avoid derailing the other thread while still saying the thing you can’t keep in. If I know something will start a pointless argument, derail a thread, or it’s just me having a day, I’ll post it here instead. Now that I’ve found this thread.

I wish more people would use it like that. Instead we get 500 posts about edition changes and whether the 2024 version is a new edition in the what happened to Ray Winninger thread.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> “Sir or madam, we must ask you to kindly stop berating the bus boys as they have no control over what’s in the trough. Yes, we’re all quite aware you want an authentic Cubano hand-made by actual Cubans, but this is a buffet in Ohio. Perhaps going to an actual Cuban restaurant might be a good place to start.”




Cuban Sandwiches, Ranked
10. Pan con Timba
9. Pan con Minuta
8. Elena Ruz
7. Croqueta Preparada
6. Pan con Bistec
5. D&D 5e.
4. Cubano
3. Frita Cubana
2. Pan con Lechón
1. Medianoche.


Zeno: Welcome to the greatest Cuban Sandwich joint in the world! What can I get you?

Achilles: Do you have a muffaletta?

Zeno: Um, no. We serve Cuban sandwiches.

Achilles: Cool cool. I'll get two shawarmas to go, please!


----------



## CleverNickName

I think Karma would be a cool warlock patron.
Or a very _uncool _one, it's up to you.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> I think Karma would be a cool warlock patron.
> Or a very _uncool _one, it's up to you.



No one’s ready to see what karma has in store for them. Even the villains think they’re the heroes.


----------



## CleverNickName

Decided not to post this in the "antagonistic" thread.  Maybe I should have?


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> "What do you mean you don't have oatmeal?!  I thought this was a _restaurant, _that you served _actual food._"
> "Sir, this is a pizza shop."


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> _"Because [D&D] is a gradual series of revelations / That occur over a period of time / It's not some carefully crafted story / It's a mess, and we're all gonna die. . "_
> 
> So if you've followed my posts for any time or read my campaign story hours you know it is a hobby horse of mine to push against the idea of D&D as a story game with notions of closure or emulating narrative or cinematic conventions as a goal of the game or even any particular scene or encounter.
> 
> This is the place where if I were @Snarf Zagyg,  I'd have a subtitle that said something like "_Every time I hear someone say 'Everything happens for a reason'_ _I want to punch them in the face just to prove them right."_
> 
> I was listening to NPR's F_resh Air_ the other day and the guest host (Terry Gross was on vacay, which is why I bothered listening) was interviewing Rachel Bloom. I have never watched _Crazy Ex-Girlfriend_ but they played a clip of one of the songs from it and I fell in love with the song (embedded below + lyrics). Not only because I agree with its view of life_. . . _but because that is my ideal view of D&D. If you listen to it with D&D in mind, it really kinda works. It makes me think of how in my longest and most successful D&D campaign, while the PCs resolved what became the central concern of the game, there were still about a dozen loose threads and the game ended _satisfactorily _after 5+ years (real-time) with the party dissolving to pursue whichever of those mattered most to them, some of which would put the PCs - now fast friends - into conflict. The End.  Everyone loved it.
> 
> Also the lyric about "People aren't characters. They're complicated / And their choices don't always make sense" makes me think of all the times I've witnessed players argue about the in-game choices of another "not making sense" (something I would put the kibosh on these days). The people who play D&D characters are not characters themselves.
> 
> Anyway, I was gonna start a thread about this, but then I decided, what's the point? I'll share it in that wackadoo thread instead.



Here's a clip from the way the song was presented. Warning: Spoilers for the show.


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> If you're talking about FATE, yes absolutely. It's designed to lean into the movie tropes, and does so very effectively. You're not gaming for the same things as in, say D&D or whatever. The metacurrency of the game is tokens, and you get them for leaning into the tropes, so that the game will encourage that sort of play.
> 
> In a game like D&D, the metacurrency is experience points and gold pieces. So, it encourages activities that gain the character more of that -- adventuring. That's what it encourages.
> 
> I agree completely that player assumptions can make or ruin a session, which is why, when starting with a new table, I try to manage expectations and question the players to see what kind of gameplay they're looking for.



If you want a game that seriously leans to the cinematic, then TORG would also be a good choice. Talking 1st Edition here as I have 2nd Edition, but haven't played yet. They explicitly use Acts and Scenes in adventure design. You use cards (the Drama Deck) in the game for perks during play and they are also played as round counters, that can have an effect on how play progresses. Some are explicitly "sub-plots" (Romance, Martyr, Nemesis...) that cause complications in play, while giving the benefit of more "Possibilities" (like Action Points, etc., from other games) being earned for dealing with the sub-plot. Sub-plots can become permanent (by using a Campaign card) thereby having an effect for the whole campaign, and not just a single adventure. I have played the "Martyr" card to sacrifice my character, in order to save the rest of the party. I have yet to see a more patently cinematic game.


----------



## gorice

I cannot fathom how, in the year 2022, anyone can believe that sales and popularity _aren't_ driven principally by marketing concerns like hype, brand loyalty and recognition, and glossy products.


----------



## darjr

Well y’all can’t have any of MY karma.

As soon as I get any.


----------



## Umbran

RealAlHazred said:


> In a game like D&D, the metacurrency is experience points and gold pieces.




I think gold has lost its status as metacurrency, seeing as you don't need a whole lot of it in 5e.  And lots of GMs run by milestone levelling, so you never get XP, per se.

Levels, or the friends you make along the way, are the new metacurrency.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> If you want a game that seriously leans to the cinematic, then TORG would also be a good choice. Talking 1st Edition here as I have 2nd Edition, but haven't played yet. They explicitly use Acts and Scenes in adventure design. You use cards (the Drama Deck) in the game for perks during play and they are also played as round counters, that can have an effect on how play progresses. Some are explicitly "sub-plots" (Romance, Martyr, Nemesis...) that cause complications in play, while giving the benefit of more "Possibilities" (like Action Points, etc., from other games) being earned for dealing with the sub-plot. Sub-plots can become permanent (by using a Campaign card) thereby having an effect for the whole campaign, and not just a single adventure. I have played the "Martyr" card to sacrifice my character, in order to save the rest of the party. I have yet to see a more patently cinematic game.



Almost no games come anywhere close to cinematic. The only designer I’m aware of that even really tries is Robin Laws. He’s managed a few times to get close, but it’s ultimately doomed to failure as most of the things that work for movies simply don’t work for games. Which makes sense as they’re different mediums. There’s a few points of overlap, sure, but that’s about it.

Primetime Adventures and Fate also come to mind, but many gamers recoil from meta-currency and the like. A lot seem to want medium-crunch rules sets that work as physics engines and want immersion in their character rather than focusing constantly on the narrative arc.

The more your _play at the table_ resembles a movie, the less your “game” resembles a _game _and the more it becomes collaborative creative writing. Nothing wrong with that, but RPGs are not movies.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Almost no games come anywhere close to cinematic. The only designer I’m aware of that even really tries is Robin Laws. He’s managed a few times to get close, but it’s ultimately doomed to failure as most of the things that work for movies simply don’t work for games. Which makes sense as they’re different mediums. There’s a few points of overlap, sure, but that’s about it.
> 
> Primetime Adventures and Fate also come to mind, but many gamers recoil from meta-currency and the like. A lot seem to want medium-crunch rules sets that work as physics engines and want immersion in their character rather than focusing constantly on the narrative arc.
> 
> The more your _play at the table_ resembles a movie, the less your “game” resembles a _game _and the more it becomes collaborative creative writing. Nothing wrong with that, but RPGs are not movies.



Still, without the Role Playing part of RPG, which is collaborative storytelling, it's not the same game. I've been in groups that treated the whole thing as just another game, with set victory conditions and the like, and it just plain suuuuuuucked. Everything is meta. Everything is about DPR. Not fun. For me, at least.


----------



## Cadence

Thread about IHOP.

A:  <No one asks> "And Howard Johnson's was just a second-rate IHOP."

B:  "Why won't you just admit that Howard Johnson's was better than any restaurant still open today, and would still be if again if it would just re-open!!!!"

_* Howard Johsnon's was once America's largest restaurant chain, numbering over 1,000 location at its peak.   There are over 1500 IHOP in the US.  _


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> I think gold has lost its status as metacurrency, seeing as you don't need a whole lot of it in 5e.  And lots of GMs run by milestone levelling, so you never get XP, per se.
> 
> Levels, or the friends you make along the way, are the new metacurrency.



They've devalued gold pieces as metacurrency in 5E, yes, but I'm talking about "all D&D," and in the OSR sphere and older editions (AD&D1E, for example) it reigns supreme. In 3.0E/3.5E/4E/PF1E at least, gold is pegged to XP, making them equivalent. We used to joke that the coin says "1 GP" on one face and "1 XP" on the other.

The friends you make along the way are the best metacurrency, and practically the one universal metacurrency among almost all role-playing games. Almost all.


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> Still, without the Role Playing part of RPG, which is collaborative storytelling, it's not the same game. I've been in groups that treated the whole thing as just another game, with set victory conditions and the like, and it just plain suuuuuuucked. Everything is meta. Everything is about DPR. Not fun. For me, at least.




Me neither. I have played and and run for groups with different degrees of that, and I definitely into tactical play, using different environments and making terrain (though I am equally comfortable running ToTM style), but without the stakes that the _role-playing a character_ aspect brings, it all loses its juice for me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

@el-remmen 

Given I just saw a perfect subjective/objective, and some of the other posts today (including the fact that there was a new thread by me) ...

I WISH I WAS PLAYING ENWORLD BINGO!


----------



## Umbran

RealAlHazred said:


> They've devalued gold pieces as metacurrency in 5E, yes, but I'm talking about "all D&D," and in the OSR sphere and older editions (AD&D1E, for example) it reigns supreme.




I think this is now discussion focused enough that it no longer belongs in this thread.  So, while I don't fully agree with you, I'll let it go.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> Me neither. I have played and and run for groups with different degrees of that, and I definitely into tactical play, using different environments and making terrain (though I am equally comfortable running ToTM style), but without the stakes that the _role-playing a character_ aspect brings, it all loses its juice for me.



Exactly. I tend to play tactically, also, but genuinely try to think about how much someone who was actually in a given situation might be willing to risk. From a heroic level, of course


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> @el-remmen
> 
> Given I just saw a perfect subjective/objective, and some of the other posts today (including the fact that there was a new thread by me) ...
> 
> I WISH I WAS PLAYING ENWORLD BINGO!




I should put those ENWorld Bingo cards I made somewhere public for folks to download. Remember! The rules are all five that make the line have to appear in the same thread for a CRIT!


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> Still, without the Role Playing part of RPG, which is collaborative storytelling, it's not the same game.



Role-playing is making decisions based on what your character would do. You pretend you’re that person, that they’re real, that the situation they’re in is real, and you re/act accordingly.

Yes, RPGs are ultimately collaborative storytelling because they use input from everyone involved (plus the rules and dice), but RPGs are still not movies. And don’t put the cart before the horse.

If dice are involved, you will inevitably have an anticlimactic situation. It’s the BBEG fight, end of the decades long campaign…and you roll badly the whole fight and can’t hit the guy. You make the perfect speech…and roll a 1.

So you have to choose. Dice or cinematic storytelling? If you ignore the dice, it’s no longer a game. If you ignore the push for cinematic storytelling, it’s no longer trying to be something it’s not…namely a movie.

RPGs are about _emergent_ storytelling. Whatever happens as a result of the referee‘s prep, the players’ decisions, and the roll of the dice. If you want cinematic, play a game with rules that push cinematic action. Fate, HeroQuest 2E, etc.


Ryujin said:


> I've been in groups that treated the whole thing as just another game, with set victory conditions and the like, and it just plain suuuuuuucked. Everything is meta. Everything is about DPR. Not fun. For me, at least.



There’s wargame game and then there’s random chance, luck, and skill game. I was using game there to refer to the latter, not the former. I can’t stand RPG play that devolves into video game or wargame play.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> I think Karma would be a cool warlock patron.
> Or a very _uncool _one, it's up to you.



Eh, might be better as a Cleric Domain (maybe Luck Domain would work?) or even Paladin Oath (Oath of Vengeance is kind of similar).


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> I think this is now discussion focused enough that it no longer belongs in this thread.



Fair point, I shall also drop it. I think we're mainly in agreement on generalities in any case.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Role-playing is making decisions based on what your character would do. You pretend you’re that person, that they’re real, that the situation they’re in is real, and you re/act accordingly.
> 
> Yes, RPGs are ultimately collaborative storytelling because they use input from everyone involved (plus the rules and dice), but RPGs are still not movies. And don’t put the cart before the horse.
> 
> If dice are involved, you will inevitably have an anticlimactic situation. It’s the BBEG fight, end of the decades long campaign…and you roll badly the whole fight and can’t hit the guy. You make the perfect speech…and roll a 1.
> 
> So you have to choose. Dice or cinematic storytelling? If you ignore the dice, it’s no longer a game. If you ignore the push for cinematic storytelling, it’s no longer trying to be something it’s not…namely a movie.
> 
> RPGs are about _emergent_ storytelling. Whatever happens as a result of the referee‘s prep, the players’ decisions, and the roll of the dice. If you want cinematic, play a game with rules that push cinematic action. Fate, HeroQuest 2E, etc.
> 
> There’s wargame game and then there’s random chance, luck, and skill game. I was using game there to refer to the latter, not the former. I can’t stand RPG play that devolves into video game or wargame play.



On more than one occasion I have, in fact, ignored the dice because the result was a better experience for the players.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Eh, might be better as a Cleric Domain (maybe Luck Domain would work?) or even Paladin Oath (Oath of Vengeance is kind of similar).




I am totally playing a Karma Police. Um ... Oath of Karma Police Vengeance.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> On more than one occasion I have, in fact, ignored the dice because the result was a better experience for the players.



It’s your game, so you do you, but why bother with rules and dice if you’re just going to ignore them?


----------



## billd91

overgeeked said:


> It’s your game, so you do you, but why bother with rules and dice if you’re just going to ignore them?



Because it's not a binary issue. Never has been.


----------



## darjr

I need to make a comment, wish there was a thread for that.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I need to make a comment, wish there was a thread for that.




Just do what I do- start a thread.

(Minimum 10,000 words)


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> On more than one occasion I have, in fact, ignored the dice because the result was a better experience for the players.



I only ignore the dice when what led me to rolling them was a mistake/miscalculation on my part.


----------



## Cadence

I'm finding it hard to imagine a generation that's grown up on multiple versions of game systems, video games, and phone operating systems being thrown by being told something is a new edition.

(Or is that just because I've seen my son navigate all the different versions of minecraft and what mods can be used and which books about it are useful for what he needs?)


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> It’s your game, so you do you, but why bother with rules and dice if you’re just going to ignore them?



Because, as pretty much every RPG "rulebook" says, they are essentially guidelines. I ignore them at times that I consider appropriate. They're still the framework from which my stories hang.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> Because, as pretty much every RPG "rulebook" says, they are essentially guidelines. I ignore them at times that I consider appropriate. They're still the framework from which my stories hang.



Agreed. I tend to go a lot further. I prefer rules ultralight or one-page games or FKR-style play over anything more than a few pages. I'm always curious why people would bother with a chunky rule book only to ignore it. It's not an accusatory thing or saying you're doing it wrong. I just wonder: why bother? You don't need the book at all, and you're going to ignore it at your whim anyway, so why pretend to use it in the first place?


----------



## Cadence

I find myself wondering if pepperoni is still plugging ahead in a few decades, if you'll still be bemoaning that pineapple never got the shot it deserved.  



(The guilty pleasure that thought brings me makes me almost sure that pineapple will rise again just to thwart me).


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Agreed. I tend to go a lot further. I prefer rules ultralight or one-page games or FKR-style play over anything more than a few pages. I'm always curious why people would bother with a chunky rule book only to ignore it. It's not an accusatory thing or saying you're doing it wrong. I just wonder: why bother? You don't need the book at all, and you're going to ignore it at your whim anyway, so why pretend to use it in the first place?



And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, if it's what your players and yourself enjoy. You might actually be one of the rare candidates for "Amber", the diceless role playing game. It's not exactly a small book but, as stated, there are no dice involved at all. From what I recall everything is essentially comparative in nature. X is stronger than Y, but Y has an affinity for a certain plane of existence in which they are essentially god. Z is smarter than both X and Y, so can outwit them if they put their mind to it.


----------



## billd91

overgeeked said:


> Agreed. I tend to go a lot further. I prefer rules ultralight or one-page games or FKR-style play over anything more than a few pages. I'm always curious why people would bother with a chunky rule book only to ignore it. It's not an accusatory thing or saying you're doing it wrong. I just wonder: why bother? You don't need the book at all, and you're going to ignore it at your whim anyway, so why pretend to use it in the first place?



*Not.A.Binary.* 
Maybe people are using 80-90% of it. Maybe the rules offer some pretty good structure most of the time and it's only in little bits on the margins that they ignore or modify a die's input.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> *Not.A.Binary.*
> Maybe people are using 80-90% of it. Maybe the rules offer some pretty good structure most of the time and it's only in little bits on the margins that they ignore or modify a die's input.



I liked the RPG Space Opera. I didn't like that they included two separate mechanics that required tracking to determine when someone was exhausted, so I tossed them out. Playability was much improved.


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, if it's what your players and yourself enjoy. You might actually be one of the rare candidates for "Amber", the diceless role playing game. It's not exactly a small book but, as stated, there are no dice involved at all. From what I recall everything is essentially comparative in nature. X is stronger than Y, but Y has an affinity for a certain plane of existence in which they are essentially god. Z is smarter than both X and Y, so can outwit them if they put their mind to it.



I love that game and played it a bunch in the late 90s.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> I love that game and played it a bunch in the late 90s.



I did the character creation bidding thing and played a little bit (one session), but never really got into it. Still have the rulebook around here somewhere. Then again I have a LOT of game books that I rarely, or never played. Stuff that I couldn't get anyone interested in. I recently gave away all of my Dream Park books and adventures to a friend in Seattle.


----------



## CleverNickName

Caption this image.


----------



## CleverNickName

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376



"No pineapple, as requested."


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376




"Pain"

(pun intended)


----------



## CleverNickName

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376



"Introducing the new Unearthed Arcana Playtest pizza!"


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376



Waste of dough.


----------



## CleverNickName

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376



"So I've been working on balancing the magic use of chocolate with the marital abilities of chicken..."


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376



"The End of the Lunch Line at Miss Moonsorrow's School for Broken Children"


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376



The perfect meal for this soda:


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376



This half: coma. That half: diabetes.

Wilford Brimley: Diabetus.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Caption this image.
> View attachment 263376



Page 3 of John Madden's cookbook.


----------



## Hussar

Gack.  I'm stuck.

I want to comment about the conversation going on in this thread, but, this is the thread for dropping comments about conversations in other threads but people are having a conversation within this thread without commenting in other threads and my brains are starting to want to jump a foot and a half to the left out my ear.


----------



## billd91

Hussar said:


> Gack.  I'm stuck.
> 
> I want to comment about the conversation going on in this thread, but, this is the thread for dropping comments about conversations in other threads but people are having a conversation within this thread without commenting in other threads and my brains are starting to want to jump a foot and a half to the left out my ear.



You could start a thread about this thread which is about other threads.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I love that game and played it a bunch in the late 90s.




I’ve mentioned this before, but a lot of my adjudication techniques in 5e are borrowed from Amber DRPG.


----------



## Umbran

Hussar said:


> ...my brains are starting to want to jump a foot and a half to the left out my ear.




I'm sorry, I can't help you.  I don't get invited to those kind of parties.


----------



## darjr

Pineapple is widely known as the candy corn of fruit.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Hussar said:


> my brains are starting to want to jump a foot and a half to the left out my ear.




 This is your brain.
This is your brain on The Rocky Horror Picture Show.


----------



## Hussar

billd91 said:


> You could start a thread about this thread which is about other threads.



But, would I then have to type faster or slower?  

I'm so confused.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I need to learn to use the "/s".

Also, I need to make a macro to instantly add the following jiff to comments.


----------



## CleverNickName

*CleverNickName's Recipe For Candy Corn*
_Ingredients:_
1 lb. of candy corn, Brach'sTM brand
1 flat-rate postage box

_Instructions:_
1.  Put the package of candy corn into the flat-rate postage box.
2.  Send it to me.

*CleverNickName's Recipe for Candy Corn (For Real)*
_Ingredients:_
1 lb. of candy corn, Brach'sTM brand
1 lb. dry roasted and salted peanuts.

_Instructions:_
1.  Combine both ingredients in an airtight jar
2.  Thank me later.


----------



## RealAlHazred

*RealAlHazred's Recipe for Candy Corn*
_Ingredients:_
1 lb. candy
1 lb. corn, preferably not on the cob

_Instructions:_
1. Pour the candy on the corn.
2. Enclose ingredients in airtight jar.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I’ve mentioned this before, but a lot of my adjudication techniques in 5e are borrowed from Amber DRPG.



My favorite bit is the player advice. I’ve used variations of that since I first read it. Yes, the whole point is to actually role-play your character. No, this isn’t a soulless math exercise. I’m also a fan of the line, “The very best Amber players don’t [complain].” Only the text uses a stronger word. I should try running Amber again. It’s been ages.


----------



## darjr




----------



## el-remmen

Between 2000 and about 2007 I was on ENWorld pretty regularly until finally the truism that Familiarity breeds contempt became something I could not ignore and I stepped away.

Coming back in 2020 it only took until 2022 for that contempt to return.


----------



## darjr

el-remmen said:


> Between 2000 and about 2007 I was on ENWorld pretty regularly until finally the truism that Familiarity breeds contempt became something I could not ignore and I stepped away.
> 
> Coming back in 2020 it only took until 2022 for that contempt to return.



Well… I dint like weed either!


----------



## darjr

@Payne not that I think it’s evil. Just I dint need to snack.

I might accidentally eat pineapple pizza!


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> @Payne not that I think it’s evil. Just I dint need to snack.
> 
> I might accidentally eat pineapple pizza!



Stranger things have happened...


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Stranger things have happened...



Indeed. Even on "Stranger Things", where they ate pineapple pizza this season.


----------



## overgeeked

There's what eight posts on topic, then 17 pages on what is or is not an edition...because sure, why not. Makes perfect sense. Clear example of people just showing up to argue about their pet complaint.


----------



## trappedslider

overgeeked said:


> There's what eight posts on topic, then 17 pages on what is or is not an edition...because sure, why not. Makes perfect sense. Clear example of people just showing up to argue about their pet complaint.



_looks at this thread_


----------



## CleverNickName

(dons my asbestos apron, gauntlets, and welding mask)

Okay ENWorld, let's do this.  Let's do a psionics Survivor thread.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> (dons my asbestos apron, gauntlets, and welding mask)
> 
> Okay ENWorld, let's do this.  Let's do a psionics Survivor thread.



That's ... *brave*.


----------



## overgeeked

trappedslider said:


> _looks at this thread_



I must have missed the bit where it says strictly no discussion of posts made here. 

_checks first page of this thread_

Yep, discussion seems to be the norm. Sorry it bothers you.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> (dons my asbestos apron, gauntlets, and welding mask)
> 
> Okay ENWorld, let's do this.  Let's do a psionics Survivor thread.


----------



## payn

Did you just go tyranny on “the tyranny of fun?”


----------



## prabe

So all it took was a question. Well, huh.


----------



## Cadence

A: "Whatcha doin?"

B: "Watching that movie I was telling you about, it's awesome!"

A: Looks at them watching a movie on their phone sitting on the couch.  Looks over at the large screen internet connected TV right in front of the couch,  recalls there's a laptop upstairs, a computer in the back room, and a couples tablet in the house too.  "Ok".   Nods and wanders off.


----------



## Cadence

For heaven's sake people, your "logic" is completely off the rails.  Don't make me unblock someone just so I can go in and quote them and defend their point of view on this one thing in the universe we apparently agree on.


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> For heaven's sake people, your "logic" is completely off the rails.  Don't make me unblock someone just so I can go in and quote them and defend their point of view on this one thing in the universe we apparently agree on.




It is more important in relationships to dislike the same things than like the same things. Now, I am not saying that it is not important to like things in common to share and engage with together, but liking the same things is not going to relieve the sense that there is something wrong with the other person's taste when they love something you hate or vice versa. Neutral to things they love is okay, as is neutral to things they hate. But we all like the same things as a lot of other people, but that doesn't mean we should friends or lovers with those folks. 

In other words, just because you agree with someone else you typically disagree with on all others things about one thing doesn't mean you feel the need to share that one thing. That way lies misery.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> It is more important in relationships to dislike the same things than like the same things. Now, I am not saying that it is not important to like things in common to share and engage with together, but liking the same things is not going to relieve the sense that there is something wrong with the other person's taste when they love something you hate or vice versa. Neutral to things they love is okay, as is neutral to things they hate. But we all like the same things as a lot of other people, but that doesn't mean we should friends or lovers with those folks.
> 
> In other words, just because you agree with someone else you typically disagree with on all others things about one thing doesn't mean you feel the need to share that one thing. That way lies misery.




So, I come seeking more, but unrelated wisdom.

If someone has an animated character as their profile pic, it generally doesn't cross my mind that they are said animated character.  Similarly if it is a picture of someone famous in a movie or television scene.  If it is a photo of a person posting under what seems a persons name I might just assume its them.  If it is a person photo under a not person name I might get curious who it is a picture of and why I don't recognize them if they are famous enough to pick as a profile pic.   What if it is a picture of someone that google notes is somewhat well known in their field but not posting under that name?  Is it strange to wonder?  Is it odd to ask them?  Is it strange that I would even bother to google reverse look up any of these?  Is it possible I am a Lego archer dreaming I am a human typing this question?


----------



## billd91

Someone thinks he’s e e cummings?


----------



## prabe

Capitalizing (or not) leading letters of a name? Ironically that was something Cummings' *publisher* did, not an affectation of his own. It's possible the author in question has reasons similar to bell hooks', and believes choosing not to capitalize puts more focus on the works than on the creator. I disagree with that--I think choosing a nonstandard name format draws attention to the author instead--but it seems pretty harmless to me.


----------



## trappedslider

I swear anytime you contend with nerds/geeks you better be prepared to use the exact word.


----------



## Ryujin

When you make the assertion that all pineapple pizza must also have ham on it and then someone takes that to mean that all pizza with ham is pineapple, it's probably best not to engage further.


----------



## trappedslider

I am so glad i miss out on the drama in other parts of the site


----------



## el-remmen

Usually somewhere within the first dozen posts on a product announcement thread, there is one that just makes me stop reading because of the negativity or taking the opportunity to rant about some past product. It has never been the very first one before.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I notice one or two typos in a couple of posts in the last few pages of this thread, so I am disregarding _all _of your opinions as flawed and possibly heretical!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> A: "Whatcha doin?"
> 
> B: "Watching that movie I was telling you about, it's awesome!"
> 
> A: Looks at them watching a movie on their phone sitting on the couch.  Looks over at the large screen internet connected TV right in front of the couch,  recalls there's a laptop upstairs, a computer in the back room, and a couples tablet in the house too.  "Ok".   Nods and wanders off.



My wife will ask if we can watch a thing, and then during the thing I'll look over and she's playing Lily's Garden on her phone.

I mean, *I* would rather have been talking out of my ass on an Internet forum, we're watching because _you_ wanted to!


----------



## billd91

RealAlHazred said:


> My wife will ask if we can watch a thing, and then during the thing I'll look over and she's playing Lily's Garden on her phone.



Could be worse. Your wife could also be periodically pointing her phone in your direction showing you some semi-humorous meme on Star Trek: Sh!tposting that she wanted you to see - like mine does.


----------



## CleverNickName

If pizza toppings are a metaphor for various gaming preferences (i.e., psionics ~ pineapple):

Every character getting feats and subclasses at 1st level is like putting your cast iron skillet in the dishwasher.  No, it doesn't technically _break_ anything, it's just extra work if you want to cook up something quickly.  And it just feels wrong.


----------



## J.Quondam

Prompt: "psionic pineapple"






Time to go start work on that pizza-topping themed D&D campaign.


----------



## payn

Nobody wants optional rules. Those are for somebody else.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Nobody wants optional rules. Those are for somebody else.



That's right. 
There are only two sets of rules:  the ones I want to use, and the ones that must be removed from all books.


----------



## trappedslider

Spending time reading the threads in the meta section has convinced me to stay out of the other parts of the forum


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> Spending time reading the threads in the meta section has convinced me to stay out of the other parts of the forum



AH WISDOM! WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU?


----------



## billd91

Someone's a cranky pants today.


----------



## payn

What does what now???


----------



## CleverNickName

It's that time of the year:  Pumpkin Spice Time!  I do this little October ritual every year, and I highly recommend it to everyone.  It's the Flavor of Autumn!

*CleverNickName's Pumpkin Spice Blend*

_Ingredients:_
1 stick of cinnamon, broken into pieces
8 whole allspice berries
5 whole cloves
1 star of anise
1 copy of module "X1: The Isle of Dread," by David Cook and Tom Moldvay (any format)
1 whole nutmeg, crushed
2 teaspoons ground ginger
1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper

_Instructions:_

Read "X1: The Isle of Dread."
Place the cinnamon, allspice, cloves, anise, and nutmeg in a small dry saucepan.  Heat over medium heat, without oil and while shaking the pan constantly, until lightly toasted and very fragrant.
Immediately pour the toasted spices into a spice grinder, and pulverize into a fine powder.
Marvel at how one of the most iconic D&D adventures ever written is only 32 pages long, and still manages to contain a whole campaign setting, NPCs, maps, and 16 new monsters.
Add the ground ginger and cayenne pepper, and pulse a few seconds to combine.
Store the spice blend in an airtight jar (an empty spice bottle works perfectly).
Adapt "The Isle of Dread" to your current D&D campaign setting and/or rules system.  Wish that all published adventures were this versatile and easy to adapt.
Use the spices for your next pumpkin pie, latte, or batch of oatmeal cookies.  Delicious!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg




----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> I am so glad i miss out on the drama in other parts of the site



They being the drama here! The drama is in the thread! It’s been right here all along!


----------



## darjr

Pineapple spice latte?! No, thanks.


----------



## payn

I'll take some pineapple orange juice though.


----------



## Asisreo

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



I admit, I would try it one time.


----------



## Cadence

Had pumpkin cream cheese on my bagel this morning.  I have no regrets.


----------



## CleverNickName

I had a pumpkin spice stout a while ago.  It wasn't the worst beer I've ever had.

EDIT:  It's still out there, for all who are interested. *Pumpkin Spice Yeti *by Great Divide Brewing.

And I'm a big fan of pumpkin spice pancakes: just stir in a spoonful of The Spice to your favorite pancake batter.  If you wanna be extra, you can swap a bit of pumpkin puree or applesauce for some of the buttermilk, too.




_Now you're livin'._


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I had a pumpkin spice stout a while ago.  It wasn't the worst beer I've ever had.



I've had a lot of pumpkin beers, few of them are good. Though, when its good, I really enjoy it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Pumpkin spice is neither pumpkin nor spicy.






Discuss.


----------



## Gradine

The thing about pumpkin spice is that it's most famously enjoyed by teenage girls, and there is nothing the rest of our society collectively hates more than teenage girls and specifically the things that teenage girls like.

Also it's "Ya basic" not "You basic", nerds


----------



## billd91

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pumpkin spice is neither pumpkin nor spicy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss.



Depends on if, to you, spicy means hot or infused with spices.


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> The thing about pumpkin spice is that it's most famously enjoyed by teenage girls, and there is nothing the rest of our society collectively hates more than teenage girls and specifically the things that teenage girls like.
> 
> Also it's "Ya basic" not "You basic", nerds


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> Depends on if, to you, spicy means hot or infused with spices.




Zeno: What's wrong with you?

Achilles: Oh, that ketchup is too spicy!

Zeno: What ... are ... you ... talking about? Do you need me to slather your hot dog with some Hellman's?

Achilles: Sorry, I just meant that ketchup is infused with spices.

Zeno: ............. screw the Greek Philosophers. I am not talking to you anymore.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> The thing about pumpkin spice is that it's most famously enjoyed by teenage girls, and there is nothing the rest of our society collectively hates more than teenage girls and specifically the things that teenage girls like.




Naw. First, it's not teenage girls that are the primary enablers of pumpkin spice.

Second, some of us hate it because it's taking away from decorative gourd season.


----------



## billd91

Gradine said:


> The thing about pumpkin spice is that it's most famously enjoyed by *teenage, college, and college-educated girls/women*, and there is nothing the rest of our society collectively hates more than teenage girls and specifically the things that teenage girls like.



Made an update since it's way past teenage girls.
Basically, the groups that seem to like pumpkin spice the most are the easiest targets without consequence. Not powerful enough to squelch being targeted, not oppressed enough to be reflexively defended.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> Made an update since it's way past teenage girls.
> Basically, the groups that seem to like pumpkin spice the most are the easiest targets without consequence. Not powerful enough to squelch being targeted, not oppressed enough to be reflexively defended.




Look, we really really REALLY need to stop making everything some sort of "punching up/punching down" bizzare thing.

Do you know what the actual demographics are? Do you want to know?

Pumpkin spice is OVER-REPRESENTED by male buyers (for example, they make up 47% of PSL buyers, which is almost half, but is much more than the 37% of regular lattes that they normally buy).

What about age? 45% of purchasers of PSL are 45% are older- in fact, because they are more expensive, it skews to an older and wealthier demographic (not teenagers).

(This is as of 2019)

So yeah- as fun as this might be, maybe let's not do this? Also let's not characterize how women drink and make choices incorrectly?

Sometimes a Seasonal Beverage that gets overrepresented in culture and then gets a backlash is _just a seasonal beverage with a backlash. _


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I had a pumpkin spice stout a while ago.  It wasn't the worst beer I've ever had.
> 
> EDIT:  It's still out there, for all who are interested. *Pumpkin Spice Yeti *by Great Divide Brewing.
> 
> And I'm a big fan of pumpkin spice pancakes: just stir in a spoonful of The Spice to your favorite pancake batter.  If you wanna be extra, you can swap a bit of pumpkin puree or applesauce for some of the buttermilk, too.
> 
> View attachment 263696
> _Now you're livin'._





payn said:


> I've had a lot of pumpkin beers, few of them are good. Though, when its good, I really enjoy it.




My ongoing Pumpkin Beer Rating List  (parentheses are the beer advocate ratings last time I checked for that one, ordering within category is by that).  Categorizations subject to change.  I apparently like the pumpkin spice in beer more than the pumpkin.

My Favorites (that I would drink any season):
Good Gourd Imperial Stout by Cigar City Brewing (95/4.26)
Clown Shoes Gordo (91/4.14)
Southern Tier Warlock (89/3.99)
King Don's Pumpkin Ale by Catawba (86/3.82)

Solid Pumpkin Choice:
Elysian Great Pumpkin (92/4.13)
Great Divide Pumpkin Spice Yeti (91/4.14)
Southern Tier Pumking (90/4.05)
Southern Tier Pumking Nitro (90/4.01)
Elysian Night Owl (88/3.95)
Rogue Pumpkin Patch Ale (87/3.85)
Sycamore Pumpkin Latte Blonde (87/3.83)
Voodoo Ranger Atomic Pumpkin by New Belgium (84/3.77)
Kentucky Pumpkin Barrel Ale (84/3.71)
Pumpkin Blaster by Sugar Creek (-/-)

Drinkable:
Elysian Dark O' The Moon (88/3.94)
Weyerbacher Imperial Pumpkin Ale (87/3.89)
UFO Journey to Planet Pumpkin! (82/3.6)
Brooklyn Brewery Post Road Pumpkin Ale (79/3.46)

Pass:
Elysian Punkuccino (92/4.14)
Gordgeous by NoDa (88/3.94)
Dogfish Head Punkin Ale (88/3.92)
Samuel Adams Jack-O Pumpkin Ale (74/3.20)
Shipyard Pumpkinhead Ale (70/3.02)

No Rating (IPA, Sour, or way HiGrav):
Kickin' Knowledge Milkshake Pumpkin by Barrier Brewing (91/4.17)  <- was expecting a stout... I need to read cans better!
Avery Brewing Rumpkin (91/4.08) <- wow that's boozy
Pumpkin Kerfuffle by Prairie Artisan Ales (89/4.03)  <- reminded me of a cider


----------



## CleverNickName

Meh, I just drink my Pumpkin Spice Whatever and ignore the backlash.
I don't give an airborne coitus what the barista thinks of my coffee selection.

Pumpkin-spice biscotti on the side?  Don't mind if I do.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Southern Tier Pumking (90/4.05)
> Southern Tier Pumking Nitro (90/4.01)



I do like the Pumpking!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Meh, I just drink my Pumpkin Spice Whatever and ignore the backlash.
> I don't give an airborne coitus what the barista thinks of my coffee selection.
> 
> Pumpkin-spice biscotti on the side?  Don't mind if I do.








I’d like my Pumptini shaken, not stirred.


----------



## Ryujin

Huh. I prefer my pumpkin in Jack-o-Lantern, roasted seed, or pie form.


----------



## J.Quondam

Tbh, I never had particularly strong opinions about pumpkin spice.
Or any of the other ones, for that matter.





Wait wut?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> My ongoing Pumpkin Beer Rating List  (parentheses are the beer advocate ratings last time I checked for that one, ordering within category is by that).  Categorizations subject to change.  I apparently like the pumpkin spice in beer more than the pumpkin.
> snip



Of those, the only differences I'd have are that I like the Weyerbacher, Pumking, and Dogfish Head more than you. Two Roads and Heavy Seas make stuff I like pretty well, too, that you apparently haven't had (though I haven't had everything on your list).

Also, Prairie makes like really strong beers as a rule, I think.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> View attachment 263701
> 
> I’d like my Pumptini shaken, not stirred.






Haven't had it yet, but I hear it sometimes in the night during decorative gourd season.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> View attachment 263705
> Haven't had it yet, but I hear it sometimes in the night during decorative gourd season.



I've not had many, maybe even any, good flavored whiskies, but cant knock it until I rock it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Huh. I prefer my pumpkin in Jack-o-Lantern, roasted seed, or pie form.




Once you’ve had a great Tortelli di zucca you can’t go back.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> I've not had many, maybe even any, good flavored whiskies, but cant knock it until I rock it.



I still think of myself as learning whiskies, much as I like 'em. Flavored whiskies seem like a side project or something.


----------



## billd91

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Look, we really really REALLY need to stop making everything some sort of "punching up/punching down" bizzare thing.
> 
> Do you know what the actual demographics are? Do you want to know?
> 
> Pumpkin spice is OVER-REPRESENTED by male buyers (for example, they make up 47% of PSL buyers, which is almost half, but is much more than the 37% of regular lattes that they normally buy).
> 
> What about age? 45% of purchasers of PSL are 45% are older- in fact, because they are more expensive, it skews to an older and wealthier demographic (not teenagers).
> 
> (This is as of 2019)
> 
> So yeah- as fun as this might be, maybe let's not do this? Also let's not characterize how women drink and make choices incorrectly?
> 
> Sometimes a Seasonal Beverage that gets overrepresented in culture and then gets a backlash is _just a seasonal beverage with a backlash. _



It's not the stats. It's the coding: How Men Elevate, and Women Ruin, the Foods They Love


----------



## CleverNickName

This is my favorite way to enjoy "pumpkin spiced bourbon."

First, get your hands on this little gem:  Pumpkin Spice Bitters.




Then, make yourself an Old Fashioned with it and your favorite mid-shelf bourbon:




(Save the top shelf stuff for your rocks glass.)


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> Also, Prairie makes like really strong beers as a rule, I think.



I had the comments on the Avery Rumpkin and the Prairie Kerfuffle switched.  The former is 16.9% in rum barrels and the later is a sour at a much more reasonable 8.2%.   (Should be fixed now).    Sours, IPAs, and super-high ABV are not in my usual wheel-house.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> It's not the stats. It's the coding: How Men Elevate, and Women Ruin, the Foods They Love




I'm going to put this in the nicest way possible- that article is a load of crud. Notice the complete and utter lack of any supporting evidence? It's one of those "Gladwell-esque just right" stories we like to tell ourselves. "Oh look, it feels right, so it must be right." But it's not.

That's not too say that there aren't underlying coding issues in society- and people that will attack based on them; one of the most famous and easy to identify is how disco was attacked by "rock fans," not because it was bad, or because it was unpopular- but because it was transgressive and explicitly dominated by queer and POC. 

Here, though, that is just incorrect. It is true that "men's issues" in the food world are taken more seriously- despite the prominence of women in most areas of cooking overall, it is hardly shocking that male chefs dominate the upper echelons of the profession. 

That said, the waves of popularity of food do not have the same issues. For example- the whole wave of cupcake mania? The rise and fall of it wasn't coded in any way. Same with microbrews - an aggressively male area to begin with that was also mercilessly mocked for a while (pretentious, etc.). 

Pretty much all of the examples used in this article are nothing more than branding exercises. Not coding- not belittling, but almost always trying to expand brands; often in unintentionally hilarious fashion (biohack is going to age as well, most likely, as extreme did).

Most products would KILL for the massive popularity and category-creep of pumpkin spice. In order to have backlash, you have to be popular. This isn't about coding, and I am quite sure that the fans of pumpkin spice can defend themselves and their tastes ... as they have in this thread.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I had the comments on the Avery Rumpkin and the Prairie Kerfuffle switched.  The former is 16.9% in rum barrels and the later is a sour at a much more reasonable 8.2%.   (Should be fixed now).    Sours, IPAs, and super-high ABV are not in my usual wheel-house.



Right. I didn't see that. Avery make (or at least made--I haven't checked for currency) Rumpkin and Pum[KY]n, both _huge_. I have some bottles of both I should consume--thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Malmuria

No Contract, No Pumpkin Spice!


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ... I am quite sure that the fans of pumpkin spice can defend themselves and their tastes ... as they have in this thread.




Yeah, and the simplest way is to note that making yourself look big by tearing down others is cheap and juvenile.

Just let people like what they like, be it pineapple on pizza, pumpkin spice, or bards.


----------



## Cadence

But not ketchup on hotdogs!


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pumpkin spice is neither pumpkin nor spicy.
> 
> Discuss.




Like booze, the strength is variable.

Pumpkin spice and Masala Chai share core ingredients - cinnamon and ginger, among other things.  At high concentrations, like in a proper Masala Chai, both of those will read as "spicy" to the human palate.

So, basically, this is like thumbing your nose at people who prefer beer to hard liquor.


----------



## Cadence

I haven't made these in several years... but all this talk of pumpkin...

*Chocolate Chip Pumpkin Cookies*

Cream, with an electric mixer -
1 ½ cups sugar
½ cup softened margarine 1 egg
1 cup canned pumpkin

In a separate bowl combine -
2 ½ cups flour
1 teaspoon baking soda
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon cinnamon
½ teaspoon salt

Stir (with a spoon) the flour mixture into the creamed mixture

Stir in –
1 teaspoon vanilla
1 cup chocolate chips
1 cup chopped nuts

Bake 12 – 15 minutes at 350 degrees on a greased cookie sheet. Makes about four dozen


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Yeah, and the simplest way is to note that making yourself look big by tearing down others is cheap and juvenile.
> 
> Just let people like what they like, be it pineapple on pizza, pumpkin spice, or bards.




Thanks for the after school special, hoss! But please, tell me more about how people like what they like. Can’t say that phrase has ever reached my ears before!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Like booze, the strength is variable.
> 
> Pumpkin spice and Masala Chai share core ingredients - cinnamon and ginger, among other things.  At high concentrations, like in a proper Masala Chai, both of those will read as "spicy" to the human palate.
> 
> So, basically, this is like thumbing your nose at people who prefer beer to hard liquor.




How do you say, “I don’t get the reference,” without typing it?


----------



## Cadence

Ah, the glory of rules written in common language.


----------



## Gradine

"People make fun of things they associate with young women because we, as a society, tend to treat young women like crap" isn't exactly a hot take, it's barely spicy enough to be a worthwhile pizza topping


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

_The only way to fight the patriarchy is to buy more pumpkin spice-flavored beverages_! isn't the rallying cry of enlightened rebels steeped in semiotics, but the pablum people have swallowed from brand marketers.


----------



## CleverNickName

I hoped my tongue-in-cheek recipe post would ignite a discussion about _The Isle of Dread_ and other classic D&D adventure modules.  I didn't expect a debate on seasonal espresso drinks and gender modes.

My mind always associates that adventure module with rainy weather, autumn, and "back to school" vibes.  The first time I read (and played) that adventure, it was with my middle-school buddies at school and we were just coming back after summer break.  Playing that module became a bit of a yearly ritual for us...we'd hang out for hours, reconnect, catch up after having not seen each other for months.  Now, every time the air turns chilly and the leaves change colors, I find myself reaching for that familiar orange module with the dinosaur on the cover.

If books can have flavor, that one definitely tastes like autumn to me.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I honestly expected my recipe post to ignite a discussion about _The Isle of Dread_ and other classic D&D adventure modules.  I didn't expect a debate on seasonal espresso drinks and gender modes.
> 
> My mind always associates that adventure module with rainy autumn and "back to school" vibes.  The first time I read (and played) that adventure, it was with my middle-school buddies at school and we were just coming back after summer break.  It became a bit of a yearly ritual for us.



You never know whatcha gonna get.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> You never know whatcha gonna get.



That said:  we did get a nice recipe out of the deal, so I'm not mad about it.  Thanks, @Cadence!  I'm gonna have to give those cookies a try.  (But I'm 99% sure I'm going to sub my spice blend for the cinnamon.)


----------



## el-remmen

I wrote another long response to a thread and then just shrugged my shoulders. What's the point? It will remain in the drafts.


----------



## payn

Oh, I forgot to mention, last night while shopping at Target I saw a seasonal salad kit. Pumpkin Cesar salad. I think we have reached peak pumpkin folks.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention, last night while shopping at Target I saw a seasonal salad kit. Pumpkin Cesar salad. I think we have reached peak pumpkin folks.




One of the things I will never understand is why people put Caesar dressing on Caesar salad -- I always put it on a salad that actually has stuff in it!


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> That said:  we did get a nice recipe out of the deal, so I'm not mad about it.  Thanks, @Cadence!  I'm gonna have to give those cookies a try.  (But I'm 99% sure I'm going to sub my spice blend for the cinnamon.)




The one warning I have is that we've done them they're always pretty moist and not-quite done looking on the tops.  I'm not sure we've ever cooked one long enough for it to get super firm (even if the bottom is over-done).


----------



## CleverNickName

I read an essay a while ago about why pumpkin pie spice is so prevalent in America.  The conclusion was (a) it can be easily substituted for cinnamon in most dishes, and (b) Americans put cinnamon in tons of stuff.  So when (c) Starbucks popularized the Pumpkin Spice Latte as a seasonal treat and made millions of dollars off of it, everyone with a jar of cinnamon jumped on the bandwagon.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I read an essay a while ago about why pumpkin pie spice is so prevalent in America.  The conclusion was (a) it can be easily substituted for cinnamon in most dishes, and (b) Americans put cinnamon in tons of stuff.  So when (c) Starbucks popularized the Pumpkin Spice Latte as a seasonal treat and made millions of dollars off of it, everyone with a jar of cinnamon jumped on the bandwagon.



It's a handy spice blend, really. If cinnamon is appropriate and you want ... I dunno, a broader range or more depth or whatever metaphor you want. It's overused and overexposed, but that doesn't make it *bad*.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> It's a handy spice blend, really. If cinnamon is appropriate and you want ... I dunno, a broader range or more depth or whatever metaphor you want. It's overused and overexposed, but that doesn't make it *bad*.



Agree.  One time I was baking some cinnamon rolls and realized I was out of ground cinnamon.  So I used pumpkin pie spice instead, and now I can never go back.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I read an essay a while ago about why pumpkin pie spice is so prevalent in America.  The conclusion was (a) it can be easily substituted for cinnamon in most dishes, and (b) Americans put cinnamon in tons of stuff.  So when (c) Starbucks popularized the Pumpkin Spice Latte as a seasonal treat and made millions of dollars off of it, everyone with a jar of cinnamon jumped on the bandwagon.



There is also the whole pumpkin pie, bars, desert thing. Its always peak around Thanksgiving which just builds nostalgia into it as a product. ITs actually kind of genius because I love pumpkin but by the time thanksgiving is over, im done with it....until next fall again!


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> There is also the whole pumpkin pie, bars, desert thing. Its always peak around Thanksgiving which just builds nostalgia into it as a product. ITs actually kind of genius because I love pumpkin but by the time thanksgiving is over, im done with it....until next fall again!



That's why you need a source of year-round pumpkin goodness - micro-dosing, if you will. This is why I've been a fan of my local grocery store. They used to do a frycake flavor of the day and Fridays was always pumpkin. They still do pumpkin bread loaves frequently and not tied to the Starbucks pumpkin spice season.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> There is also the whole pumpkin pie, bars, desert thing. Its always peak around Thanksgiving which just builds nostalgia into it as a product. ITs actually kind of genius because I love pumpkin but by the time thanksgiving is over, im done with it....until next fall again!




If you want to enjoy a little taste of the fall without succumbing to the hegemony of the Great Pumpkin Industrial Complex (apologies to Linus), then I would recommend the following:

An Old Fashioned Jacked Apple
2 oz Jack Daniel's Tennessee Apple
Peach Bitters to taste (recommend three - five)
Clove simple syrup to taste (recommend a teaspoon)

Combine bitters and simple syrup in a glass. Add Jack and one large ice cube. Garnish with an apple slice and a cinnamon stick.



ETA- 3-5 _dashes_ of peach bitters. Not, um, bottles. I mean, I guess you could put in bottles? I'm not judging. Probably not very well-balanced at that point.


----------



## el-remmen

I make a nice white bean and pumpkin side dish to have with chicken and rice . . but I make it all year long.


----------



## CleverNickName

Pumpkin curry is a year-round staple at Thai restaurants and food carts here in Portland, too.


----------



## trappedslider

Everywhere we look, starts and galaxies are moving away from us at a great speed. Current theories put this down to the universe expanding. It is also possible that they simply want to get away from us...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> Like booze, the strength is variable.
> 
> Pumpkin spice and Masala Chai share core ingredients - cinnamon and ginger, among other things.  At high concentrations, like in a proper Masala Chai, both of those will read as "spicy" to the human palate.
> 
> So, basically, this is like thumbing your nose at people who prefer beer to hard liquor.



Ah, _BUT_...

Pumpkin spice turns things into *Witch Potions*™, while Masala Chai is "merely" a delicious foreign beverage mix.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> If you want to enjoy a little taste of the fall without succumbing to the hegemony of the Great Pumpkin Industrial Complex (apologies to Linus), then I would recommend the following:
> 
> An Old Fashioned Jacked Apple
> 2 oz Jack Daniel's Tennessee Apple
> Peach Bitters to taste (recommend three - five)
> Clove simple syrup to taste (recommend a teaspoon)
> 
> Combine bitters and simple syrup in a glass. Add Jack and one large ice cube. Garnish with an apple slice and a cinnamon stick.
> 
> 
> 
> ETA- 3-5 _dashes_ of peach bitters. Not, um, bottles. I mean, I guess you could put in bottles? I'm not judging. Probably not very well-balanced at that point.



Been there done that. Not a fan of apple flavor whiskies. That's mostly due to the obvious division between the whiskey and whatever flavoring chemical they added to it.


----------



## darjr

Near? NEAR?!?!!!

Completely!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Been there done that. Not a fan of apple flavor whiskies. That's mostly due to the obvious division between the whiskey and whatever flavoring chemical they added to it.




Most flavored whiskeys are terrible; this one (as a blend of No. 7 and a proprietary apple liqueur) makes for a good cocktail, as it lacks the chemical/artificial flavor that most flavored whiskeys have. 

I wouldn't recommend it neat, but I would recommend this cocktail as a seasonal beverage.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

prabe said:


> It's a handy spice blend, really. If cinnamon is appropriate and you want ... I dunno, a broader range or more depth or whatever metaphor you want. It's overused and overexposed, but that doesn't make it *bad*.



If the association from pumpkin and Starbucks was removed, the spice blend -- the most popular baking spices generally, in other words -- would be widely acknowledged as culinary all-stars.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Most flavored whiskeys are terrible



Historically, most flavored spirits are covering up for low quality base spirits.

Where realistic, it's almost always better to infuse flavors yourself at home (which usually just means tossing the booze and what you want to flavor it with into a decanter and waiting, unless you want to make a flavored syrup on the stove).

But while Captain Morgan is bad rum (sorry, Captain), modern brands are starting to flavor even good alcohol. Flavored tequilas like the 21 Seeds ones are worth picking up, for instance, if you don't have the time or inclination to infuse tequila yourself.

As a general rule, though, flavored liquor, especially if it's inexpensive, is almost certainly going to be pretty bad.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Historically, most flavored spirits are covering up for low quality base spirits.
> 
> Where realistic, it's almost always better to infuse flavors yourself at home (which usually just means tossing the booze and what you want to flavor it with into a decanter and waiting, unless you want to make a flavored syrup on the stove).
> 
> But while Captain Morgan is bad rum (sorry, Captain), modern brands are starting to flavor even good alcohol. Flavored tequilas like the 21 Seeds ones are worth picking up, for instance, if you don't have the time or inclination to infuse tequila yourself.
> 
> As a general rule, though, flavored liquor, especially if it's inexpensive, is almost certainly going to be pretty bad.




Completely agree. The recipe above calls for a clove simple syrup, which will probably be home-made. I can't imagine that's a commercial product? 

Generally, though, most commercial flavored spirits vary in quality from Southern Comfort (please God, let me die so that the taste is removed from my mouth) to Midori (_ring ring_ the 70s called and said everything tastes better with more sugar).

I'm just ecstatic that we have reached the point where we can specify different kinds of bitters without getting the squirrely look!


----------



## CleverNickName

Rest in peace, Dame Angela.  You were my favorite 1980s sleuth.


----------



## Hussar

Cadence said:


> One of the things I will never understand is why people put Caesar dressing on Caesar salad -- I always put it on a salad that actually has stuff in it!



Heh.  Funnily enough, I was at a restaurant recently and ordered a Caesar salad.  The waitress actually asked me what kind of dressing I would like on it.

I still find that too funny.  

And, I am still impressed with myself for not going full on Five Easy Pieces on this poor girl.


----------



## trappedslider

any salad is a Caesar salad if you stab it enough times.


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> any salad is a Caesar salad if you stab it enough times.



I think you're mistaking salads for oranges.

(As in Orange Julius.)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> any salad is a Caesar salad if you stab it enough times.




Yond salad has a lean and hungry look-
It stinks too much of anchovies; such dressings are dangerous.


----------



## J.Quondam

Fear not the caesar, it is not dangerous.
'Tis a noble aroma, and well whifféd.*



_*Aww, I missed the obvious "smells iffy." Oh well._


----------



## darjr

Get. A. Room.


----------



## Mad_Jack

el-remmen said:


> I wrote another long response to a thread and then just shrugged my shoulders. What's the point? It will remain in the drafts.




 I used to keep a big file of really long and incredibly insightful forum posts I'd written out but never actually posted. That way, I could just cut and paste relevant portions of them into other posts without having to spend all that time typing and then eventually realizing I didn't care enough to take the time to finish making my points...

Plus, I could go through and reread them, and get to feel all smart and stuff.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mad_Jack said:


> I used to keep a big file of really long and incredibly insightful forum posts I'd written out but never actually posted. That way, I could just cut and paste relevant portions of them into other posts without having to spend all that time typing and then eventually realizing I didn't care enough to take the time to finish making my points...
> 
> Plus, I could go through and reread them, and get to feel all smart and stuff.



See, I used to have a file just like this, and every item was tagged with snippets to make finding things easier! I started using TiddlyWiki to make it even easier than ever to cross-reference, and I started to notice where I had disagreed with previous-me on a few points. So, I posted comments on the comments, and then later changed my mind again. Now, the "unposted comments" TiddlyWiki is enormous and heated, with really angry commentary and bad feelings all around. I don't visit the file anymore -- it's a toxic environment.


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> See, I used to have a file just like this, and every item was tagged with snippets to make finding things easier! I started using TiddlyWiki to make it even easier than ever to cross-reference, and I started to notice where I had disagreed with previous-me on a few points. So, I posted comments on the comments, and then later changed my mind again. Now, the "unposted comments" TiddlyWiki is enormous and heated, with really angry commentary and bad feelings all around. I don't visit the file anymore -- it's a toxic environment.



Reminds me of a motorcycle forum that I used to moderate. One member created a half dozen or more sock puppets, not realizing that all of us mods could see that they were all created within minutes of each other, from the same source IP address. We would have banned him outright, however, it was too much fun to watch. You see, he would get all liquored up and forget which accounts were his sock puppets, and start arguing with himself.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> Reminds me of a motorcycle forum that I used to moderate. One member created a half dozen or more sock puppets, not realizing that all of us mods could see that they were all created within minutes of each other, from the same source IP address. We would have banned him outright, however, it was too much fun to watch. You see, he would get all liquored up and forget which accounts were his sock puppets, and start arguing with himself.



Look, _I said _I was sorry.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Look, _I said _I was sorry.



You beat me to the comment...


----------



## billd91

I see people are getting better at taking digs at SJWs and woketivists without using those words and provoking the obvious moderation. This is not a compliment.


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


> You beat me to the comment...



I did say i was sorry


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> I did say i was sorry




Hey, you shouldn't feel bad- we all have things for which we should apologize.


----------



## CleverNickName

billd91 said:


> I see people are getting better at taking digs at SJWs and woketivists without using those words and provoking the obvious moderation. This is not a compliment.



The best medicine for this (and other poor behaviors) is to report without engagement.

Don't click Reply, don't click Quote, don't click anything except "Report."


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hey, you shouldn't feel bad- we all have things for which we should apologize.



One little reminiscence and all of a sudden the whole forum goes Canadian.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ryujin said:


> One little reminiscence and all of a sudden the whole forum goes Canadian.



Sorry about that.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Sorry about that.



(For the record, we have a Federal Law that states an apology is not an admission of guilt)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> One little reminiscence and all of a sudden the whole forum goes Canadian.




No worries, friend.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Who decided that if you cut a head of lettuce into a quartered wedge you could charge more for it?

Dawg, you've done _less _work than the normal way and are charging me more for the privilege.

Wake up sheeple!


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> You decided that if you cut a head of lettuce into a quartered wedge you could charge more for it?
> 
> Dawg, you've done _less _work than the normal way and are charging me more for the privilege.
> 
> Wake up sheeple!


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> Who decided that if you cut a head of lettuce into a quartered wedge you could charge more for it?
> 
> Dawg, you've done _less _work than the normal way and are charging me more for the privilege.
> 
> Wake up sheeple!



Personally, I blame Zontar.


----------



## el-remmen

For a game of imagination, a lot of people seem to lack one.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> For a game of imagination, a lot of people seem to lack one.




If only we still had the childlike wonder of our youth.


----------



## eyeheartawk

It always comes back to chicky nuggies


----------



## Aeson

Mad_Jack said:


> Yeah, but it's not fair to make people actually have to _think_ about these things. Thinking is hard.



That's what the die is for. No thinking necessary.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> It always comes back to chicky nuggies




....weird. I was going to say it always comes back to switchblades.

I guess the two of us were used to a ... different quality of Ronald McDonald playground.


----------



## CleverNickName

With a Pro subscription and the right API Scripts, I can make Roll20 do cartwheels.

BECM VTT, here I come!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....weird. I was going to say it always comes back to switchblades.
> 
> I guess the two of us were used to a ... different quality of Ronald McDonald playground.



Here's a real Grover Washington Jr. moment.


----------



## payn

Mi


Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....weird. I was going to say it always comes back to switchblades.
> 
> I guess the two of us were used to a ... different quality of Ronald McDonald playground.



Mine had syringes....


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Mi
> 
> Mine had syringes....




Sorry 'boot that. I was mainlining maple syrup.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sorry 'boot that. I was mainlining maple syrup.



_I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do
So the little got more and more
I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
Said a little better than before
I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do
So the little got more and more
I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
Said a little better than before

We been dancin' with
Ronald McDonald
He's been knockin'
He won't leave me alone
No, no, no
He won't leave me alone

Now I get up around whenever
I used ta get up on time
But that old clown he's a real burger flipper
Gonna kick him on down the line_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> _I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do_




I don't know just where I'm going
But I'm gonna try for Canada, if I can
'Cause it makes me feel like I'm a man
When I put the maple into my vein

And I'll tell ya, things aren't quite the same
When I'm making a bad pun
And I feel just like Gretzky's son
And I guess that I just don't know
And I guess that I just don't know

I have made the big decision
I'm gonna eat all 30 pancakes
'Cause when the syrup begins to flow
When I'm stuffing my piehole and out of breath
When I'm closing in on death

And you can't help me, not you guys
Or all you sweet girls who gather and gawk
You can all go take a walk
And I guess I just don't know
And I guess that I just don't know

I wish that I was born a thousand years ago
I wish that I could eat these pancakes with ease
Have some blueberry and some chocolate chip
Going from this pancake here to that
Eat all those pancakes and not get fat

Away from this Denny's
Where a man cannot be free
Of the 30 pancakes bringing me down
And the stares of the waitress hovering around
Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
Oh, and I guess that I just don't know

Pancake sauce, be the death of me
Maple sap, it's my wife and it's my life
Because a mainline to my vein
Leads to a sugar rush in my head
And then I'm better off than dead

Because when the syrup begins to flow
I really don't care anymore
About all the Denny's in this town
And all the waitresses makin' crazy sounds
And everybody puttin' everybody else down
And those thirty pancakes piled up in mounds

'Cause when the syrup begins to flow
Then I really don't care anymore
Ah, when the maple is in my blood
And that blood is in my head

Then I'll eat more pancakes 'cuz I'm good as dead
Then I can eat more pancakes 'cuz I'm not aware
And I eat pancakes 'cuz I just don't care
And I guess I just don't know
And I guess I just don't know


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I don't know just where I'm going
> But I'm gonna try for Canada, if I can
> 'Cause it makes me feel like I'm a man
> When I put the maple into my vein
> 
> And I'll tell ya, things aren't quite the same
> When I'm making a bad pun
> And I feel just like Gretzky's son
> And I guess that I just don't know
> And I guess that I just don't know
> 
> I have made the big decision
> I'm gonna eat all 30 pancakes
> 'Cause when the syrup begins to flow
> When I'm stuffing my piehole and out of breath
> When I'm closing in on death
> 
> And you can't help me, not you guys
> Or all you sweet girls who gather and gawk
> You can all go take a walk
> And I guess I just don't know
> And I guess that I just don't know
> 
> I wish that I was born a thousand years ago
> I wish that I could eat these pancakes with ease
> Have some blueberry and some chocolate chip
> Going from this pancake here to that
> Eat all those pancakes and not get fat
> 
> Away from this Denny's
> Where a man cannot be free
> Of the 30 pancakes bringing me down
> And the stares of the waitress hovering around
> Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
> Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
> 
> Pancake sauce, be the death of me
> Maple sap, it's my wife and it's my life
> Because a mainline to my vein
> Leads to a sugar rush in my head
> And then I'm better off than dead
> 
> Because when the syrup begins to flow
> I really don't care anymore
> About all the Denny's in this town
> And all the waitresses makin' crazy sounds
> And everybody puttin' everybody else down
> And those thirty pancakes piled up in mounds
> 
> 'Cause when the syrup begins to flow
> Then I really don't care anymore
> Ah, when the maple is in my blood
> And that blood is in my head
> 
> Then I'll eat more pancakes 'cuz I'm good as dead
> Then I can eat more pancakes 'cuz I'm not aware
> And I eat pancakes 'cuz I just don't care
> And I guess I just don't know
> And I guess I just don't know


----------



## CleverNickName

Well don't look now, but this thread is approaching _ten thousand posts _and a _quarter-million page views._
That's a lot of comments that didn't get posted in other threads.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> Well don't look now, but this thread is approaching _ten thousand posts _and a _quarter-million page views._
> That's a lot of comments that didn't get posted in other threads.




Call the people at Guiness.  They may want to see the longest conversation about pizza ever...


----------



## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> Call the people at Guiness.  They may want to see the longest conversation about pizza ever...



Or pineapple.
Or pineapple on pizza.
Or bards in D&D.
It's all the same topic, really.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> Call the people at Guiness.  They may want to see the longest conversation about pizza ever...



Or, they might just deliver us some beers!

*EDIT:* Oh, not _that _Guiness. I see...


----------



## Cadence

RealAlHazred said:


> Or, they might just deliver us some beers!
> 
> *EDIT:* Oh, not _that _Guiness. I see...




Wasn't the record book started at the brewery?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> Wasn't the record book started at the brewery?




 And the first ten editions were nothing but the staff's old drinking stories...


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Wasn't the record book started at the brewery?



Like how Michelin Star Ratings for restaurants were created to sell Michelin tires


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

el-remmen said:


> For a game of imagination, a lot of people seem to lack one.



And some of those who lack imagination get angry at others for being imaginative.


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> Like how Michelin Star Ratings for restaurants were created to sell Michelin tires



Or at least to encourage people to drive more and wear their tires out. At which point, yes, they'd buy new ones. It's my possibly incorrect understanding that the _Guinness Book of World Records_ was originally about trivia-based bar bets.

None of this is really arguing.


----------



## Cadence

Finally finished the last of the big bedtime reading projects* with my now 13 yo.  Well, he let me read through the eagles are coming, and then took it to school to finish and see what was happening back at the Shire. We'll see the 3rd movie this weekend.

* The Avengers 1-202, Narnia 1-6 (original order), the complete Earthsea  (minus a few paragraphs), and Hobbit/LotR.   Me and my other half also tag-teamed him through  Bone and Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck, those might be his favorites and are certainly the most re-read.


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> the complete Earthsea (minus a few paragraphs),



???

On purpose? By accident?


----------



## el-remmen

ENWorld: where there will always be at least one person who will reply to tell you that you cannot do the thing you've been doing successfully forever because it is impossible.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> ENWorld: where there will always be at least one person who will reply to tell you that you cannot do the thing you've been doing successfully forever because it is impossible.




HA HA!

Your practice cannot defeat my theory! 

_....do you think your Wu-Tang sword can defeat me???? _


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> ENWorld: where there will always be at least one person who will reply to tell you that you cannot do the thing you've been doing successfully forever because it is impossible.



"Your experience is incorrect. Let me explain to you how, in excruciating detail ..."


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> ???
> 
> On purpose? By accident?




There were a few things in books Earthsea 4-6 that didn't feel age appropriate to me when he was 9, so I edited on the fly as we read.  If it was now they would probably be things we'd read and talk about.


----------



## eyeheartawk

+ threads are baby threads for babies. 

If you fight me on that I will throw my lunch at you.


----------



## darjr

eyeheartawk said:


> + threads are baby threads for babies.
> 
> If you fight me on that I will throw my lunch at you.



Least it’s not pineapple.


----------



## darjr

Is it ignorance? Or brilliant trolling?


----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> Is it ignorance? Or brilliant trolling?



Why choose?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Is that the absolute fastest anyone's been permabanned on ENWorld? And for such a ridiculous and obviously-pointless thread?


----------



## RealAlHazred

RealAlHazred said:


> Is that the absolute fastest anyone's been permabanned on ENWorld? And for such a ridiculous and obviously-pointless thread?



Nope, nevermind, I was dumb and answered my own question.


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> Why choose?



Because I’d feel like the exact opposite of which ever it is.


----------



## darjr

Checking the rules I dint see any points granted for accidentally calling out yourself. I could have sworn it was there.

I’m sure it’s there. Just can’t find it.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> Narnia 1-6 (original order)



It really says something about how Narnia has fallen off the cultural radar that more people aren't furious about the "intended order" lie that's allowed an outsider to siphon off Lewis estate money for himself.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Finally finished the last of the big bedtime reading projects* with my now 13 yo.  Well, he let me read through the eagles are coming, and then took it to school to finish and see what was happening back at the Shire. We'll see the 3rd movie this weekend.
> 
> * The Avengers 1-202, Narnia 1-6 (original order), the complete Earthsea  (minus a few paragraphs), and Hobbit/LotR.   Me and my other half also tag-teamed him through  Bone and Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck, those might be his favorites and are certainly the most re-read.



Not too long ago I bought a hardcover of "The Works of Earthsea: The Complete Illustrated Edition", when I finally found out that the first three books weren't all that there were. I really need to sit down and read it through and I really wish that someone could produce a fairly faithful series based on the books. So far there's been a SyFy Network version that was pretty bad, despite the presence of both Shawn Ashmore and Kristiin Kruek, and the anime adaptation, that wasn't really faithful.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> It really says something about how Narnia has fallen off the cultural radar that more people aren't furious about the "intended order" lie that's allowed an outsider to siphon off Lewis estate money for himself.



I don't know what you're on about here. When I read a book, I _always _read the last chapter first so I don't get anxious about not knowing any of the other things going on in the previous chapters.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> Not too long ago I bought a hardcover of "The Works of Earthsea: The Complete Illustrated Edition", when I finally found out that the first three books weren't all that there were. I really need to sit down and read it through and I really wish that someone could produce a fairly faithful series based on the books. So far there's been a SyFy Network version that was pretty bad, despite the presence of both Shawn Ashmore and Kristiin Kruek, and the anime adaptation, that wasn't really faithful.



I loved the first three books, and the short story. And then there was a gap and I found the newly-published fourth book in the bookstore, bought it and brought it home with a huge sense of anticipation, and then... was completely devastated as a reader. The tonal shift is jarring, which makes sense -- it was written decades after the first three after all. And it's a fine story. But I was expecting the continuation of tones and themes from the first three books, and that's not at all what Ms. Le Guin had in mind with it.

After introducing the series to my wife, she's read all five, and advises me to try the fifth at some point. But I don't know. The jarring feeling is still fresh in my mind, like a wound on my childhood psyche.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Not too long ago I bought a hardcover of "The Works of Earthsea: The Complete Illustrated Edition", when I finally found out that the first three books weren't all that there were. I really need to sit down and read it through and I really wish that someone could produce a fairly faithful series based on the books. So far there's been a SyFy Network version that was pretty bad, despite the presence of both Shawn Ashmore and Kristiin Kruek, and the anime adaptation, that wasn't really faithful.



That's the one we read 

I wish I had $xx,000 sitting around when Vess sold off most of the originals early this year.


----------



## Cadence

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> It really says something about how Narnia has fallen off the cultural radar that more people aren't furious about the "intended order" lie that's allowed an outsider to siphon off Lewis estate money for himself.




I guess we should just be grateful that they haven't edited the actual text to hide all the parts that make it clear what order they were written in.


----------



## darjr

@Cadence @Whizbang Dustyboots 

I’m unfamiliar. What happened to Narnia? If you don’t mind.


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> @Cadence @Whizbang Dustyboots
> 
> I’m unfamiliar. What happened to Narnia? If you don’t mind.



So, a kid wrote to CS Lewis to ask what order he should read the books in: chronologically (as he thought), or in publication order (as his mother suggested)? CS Lewis wrote back to tell him that his preferred method was chronological, but he didn't think it really mattered. And fans have spent the decades since then using the response to justify their preferred reading method: the chronologists because he says that's his preferred method, and publicationists because he says the actual order doesn't matter.

Now, all that said, CS Lewis was wrong. If you read them chronologically, you'll read *The Magician's Nephew* (the second-to-last published) first. And *The Magician's Nephew* _categorically ties up loose ends and answers questions_ Lewis first poised in *The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe* (the first published, and the second chronologically). In *Wardrobe*, you get all these wonderful, charming mysteries:

What is a satyr doing, carrying brown-paper parcels, standing under a streetlight in the middle of a fantasy woodland?
Why does a wardrobe in an old English country estate lead to a fantasyland?
Where does Jadis, the White Witch, come from?
But if you read *Nephew *first, you got the answers to all of those beforehand, and they seem perfectly ordinary things for this series. A lot of the whimsical magic is gone.

When you look at a painting, do you look at one edge first and then cast your gaze across the canvas? No, you see a focal point that draws you in, and then you slowly take in the whole. *Wardrobe* is a focal point, and a good one. Don't start at the edge.


----------



## RealAlHazred

It's worth noting that, currently, all English-language one-volume collections (to my knowledge) put the books in chronological order. Which is a shame.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

And, based on what @RealAlHazred said, a litigious individual has glommed onto the Lewis estate, convinced them to let the publication-order books fall out of print, release new "author's intended order" editions everywhere and -- what a craaaazy coincidence -- this individual also gets a cut of the proceeds for these new books that don't do anything other than to screw up the books and make him money. It's super-gross.


----------



## RealAlHazred

If you're going to dive in and discover the world of Narnia, do it the same way CS Lewis did -- read them in publication order*.

* With one exception that doesn't really impact anything.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> If you're going to dive in and discover the world of Narnia, do it the same way CS Lewis did -- read them in publication order*.
> 
> * With one exception that doesn't really impact anything.




Narnia :: fantasy literature as anchovies :: pizza toppings.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Narnia :: fantasy literature as anchovies :: pizza toppings.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Narnia :: fantasy literature as anchovies :: pizza toppings.




I did not think that this was a controversial statement!


----------



## billd91

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Narnia :: fantasy literature as anchovies :: pizza toppings.



Something people know more by reference than by actual experience?
I mean, lots of people *have heard* of anchovies on pizza. But how many have actually *eaten* it?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> Something people know more by reference than by actual experience?
> I mean, lots of people *have heard* of anchovies on pizza. But how many have actually *eaten* it?




Due to a delivery error, I have not eaten it, but I have smelled it.

Does that count as actual experience?


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Due to a delivery error, I have not eaten it, but I have smelled it.



As the saying goes, "He who smellt it, dealt the anchovies"


----------



## J.Quondam

is to : as :: : : ::


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Something people know more by reference than by actual experience?
> I mean, lots of people *have heard* of anchovies on pizza. But how many have actually *eaten* it?



I rather like anchovies on pizza. Unfortunately I'm rarely buying pizza just for myself and, as no one seems adventurous enough to even attempt anchovies the once, I have to suffer without.

There's a metaphor in there, somewhere.


----------



## billd91

Ryujin said:


> I rather like anchovies on pizza. Unfortunately I'm rarely buying pizza just for myself and, as no one seems adventurous enough to even attempt anchovies the once, I have to suffer without.



Anchovies are excellent on pizza, I agree. But there are precious few things I won't eat on pizza and most of them come down to cooking badly on the pizza (broccoli, I'm looking at *you*). Not so the rest of my family.


----------



## billd91

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Due to a delivery error, I have not eaten it, but I have smelled it.
> 
> Does that count as actual experience?



Is throwing a bullet like firing it out of a gun?


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Anchovies are excellent on pizza, I agree. But there are precious few things I won't eat on pizza and most of them come down to cooking badly on the pizza (broccoli, I'm looking at *you*). Not so the rest of my family.



Can't remember if I've mentioned this here previously but a Canadian pizza chain (called Pizza Pizza of all things) used to have some rather interesting toppings on their menu. I found that both sunflower seeds and almond slivers paired very well with ground pork. I don't know anyone else who even tried them.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Can't remember if I've mentioned this here previously but a Canadian pizza chain ....




*The Canadian House of Pizza & Garbage!*

I have the shirt. As they say, "Whether you're a Canadian pizza enthusiast or just aspire to be one ..."


----------



## eyeheartawk

billd91 said:


> Anchovies are excellent on pizza, I agree. But there are precious few things I won't eat on pizza and most of them come down to cooking badly on the pizza (broccoli, I'm looking at *you*). Not so the rest of my family.



I find that anchovies are really only good when on a pizza when paired with something sweet to offset their intense saltiness. Something like roasted red peppers or...pineapple.


----------



## el-remmen

Back in college I had a housemate who loved anchovies on pizza when no one else did. I liked them okay but thought they were a little too powerful, so we'd order one pizza with half-anchovies. He ate the fish side and I ate the side infected by fish juice which was the perfect degree of salty fishiness for me!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> I find that anchovies are really only good when on a pizza when paired with something sweet to offset their intense saltiness. Something like roasted red peppers or...pineapple.




The road to perdition is paved with slices of anchovy & pineapple pizza.


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> Now I want to make up an encounter with a multi-generational micro-society that has come up inside a Tiny Hut that has been cast via ritual in perpetuity - never able to leave because more and more monsters make their home in the area, who have developed a religious belief system that one day the opaque pimple shall burst and the gods will award them with the tasty treats within!




^ This kind of off the top of my head thinking is evidence of why I not only invented IRON DM, I once won the tournament


----------



## darjr

I have to be in the mood.

Honestly it hasn’t ever happened yet and I dint see a future where it will.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I just want to remind the world that in the year of our lord 2022 Netflix is out here still charging extra for 4K.


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> I just want to remind the world that in the year of *our lord* 2022 Netflix is out here still charging extra for 4K.




Snarf?

(Which is why folks should just listen to them about pizza toppings!)


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> Something people know more by reference than by actual experience?
> I mean, lots of people *have heard* of anchovies on pizza. But how many have actually *eaten* it?




I've eaten a slice from the half that "didn't have anchovies on it".  Does the essence of anchovy usually spread powerfully to the adjacent slices, or is that a sign of bad preparation (like not draining the pineapple or jalapenos and spooning it on there with the juices)?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Snarf?
> 
> (Which is why folks should just listen to them about pizza toppings!)




New pizzeria, the subject
Of gourmet fantasy
I want to try it so badly
I know what I want to eat

Inside me, there's longing
All the toppings sound swell
Look at menu, waiter is close now
From the kitchen there is that smell

Don't eat, don't eat those
Don't eat those anchovies
Don't eat, don't eat those
Don't eat those anchovies

My friends are so jealous
They haven't eaten here yet
Sometimes it's not so easy
When you keep a fish as a pet

Temptation, frustration
So bad it makes me cry
I'm so hungry, server's waiting
I'll take anything on my pizza pie

Don't eat, don't eat those
Don't eat those anchovies
Don't eat, don't eat those
Don't eat those anchovies


_The lesson, as always, is that I might be your lord. But I'm no one's savior._


----------



## Malmuria

el-remmen said:


> Back in college I had a housemate who loved anchovies on pizza when no one else did. I liked them okay but thought they were a little too powerful, so we'd order one pizza with half-anchovies. He ate the fish side and I ate the side infected by fish juice which was the perfect degree of salty fishiness for me!



This will be controversial, but when I make pizza sauce, I have a secret ingredient, which is just a few drops of fish sauce.  (unrelated, but the other key to pizza sauce at home is to not cook it.  Just mix the ingredients and put it on the dough)


----------



## Malmuria

Media illiteracy: when you can't distinguish between editorializing and evidence-based reporting


----------



## el-remmen

Malmuria said:


> This will be controversial, but when I make pizza sauce, I have a secret ingredient, which is just a few drops of fish sauce.  (unrelated, but the other key to pizza sauce at home is to not cook it.  Just mix the ingredients and put it on the dough)




You ready? My guacamole secret ingredient is a dab of fish sauce!


----------



## Ryujin

Malmuria said:


> Media illiteracy: when you can't distinguish between editorializing and evidence-based reporting



Whole cable "news" channels predicate their profitability on that very basis.


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> You ready? My guacamole secret ingredient is a dab of fish sauce!



Y'all ready for this? My GMing secret ingredient is a dab of fish sauce!*

_* _Not really*_*_, but I just wanted to participate.

** Well, maybe in *Call of Cthulhu*...


----------



## billd91

RealAlHazred said:


> Y'all ready for this? My GMing secret ingredient is a dab of fish sauce!*



Behind the ears or under the armpits?


----------



## RealAlHazred

billd91 said:


> Behind the ears or under the armpits?


----------



## Malmuria

RealAlHazred said:


> Y'all ready for this? My GMing secret ingredient is a dab of fish sauce!*
> 
> _* _Not really*_*_, but I just wanted to participate.
> 
> ** Well, maybe in *Call of Cthulhu*...



The Umami-lock: a great old one warlock that got their powers by eating fermented elder god.


----------



## darjr

500 pages.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Malmuria said:


> The Umami-lock: a great old one warlock that got their powers by eating fermented elder god.




 I have a Feylock who got their powers because they ate their patron - one day he got accosted by a friendly Tinkerbell-style fairy while in a bad mood, and she annoyed him so much that he snatched her out of the air, stuffed her in his mouth and _swallowed her whole_. Being immortal, the experience of being digested drove her bat-crap insane but she grew back inside him as a sort of symbiotic second central nervous system...
 Now the two of them, an eladrin madman and the insane fairy in his head, coexist in one body - often leading to the character arguing with himself in two different voices at once and sometimes falling to the ground twitching and foaming at the mouth as the two fight over who's controlling the body...


----------



## Cadence

<insert rant>
<erase rant>

So, is non-confrontationally and constructively trying to add to a conversation one of those skills that some people can't master, one of those skills that some people aren't given the opportunity to master, or one of those skills that they just can't be bothered to try mastering?


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> 500 pages.
> View attachment 263928



I'm glad I contributed such an important post to commemorate this historic occasion!


----------



## Gammadoodler

Cadence said:


> <insert rant>
> <erase rant>
> 
> So, is non-confrontationally and constructively trying to add to a conversation one of those skills that some people can't master, one of those skills that some people aren't given the opportunity to master, or one of those skills that they just can't be bothered to try mastering?



There is also

..have mastered but choose not to exercise.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

One more …. And ……


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*10k. WOOT!!!!!*


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> <insert rant>
> <erase rant>
> 
> So, is non-confrontationally and constructively trying to add to a conversation one of those skills that some people can't master, one of those skills that some people aren't given the opportunity to master, or one of those skills that they just can't be bothered to try mastering?






Gammadoodler said:


> There is also
> 
> ..have mastered but choose not to exercise.




 All of the above...  As far as the last one goes, I've known some incredibly well-spoken, rational people who are vastly entertaining conversationalists who make you feel smarter for having talked to them... As long as you don't hit their particular trigger subjects that turn them into slavering fanatical trolls with a torch in one hand and a noose in the other, completely incapable of anything except viciously attacking anyone that doesn't share their own viewpoint.


----------



## payn

Amazon must be loving their Thursday Night Football rights purchase. No TDs in 6 quarters or longer???


----------



## el-remmen

And the comment I didn't make was, "If expecting a DM to be reasonable and fair, (maybe even generous!) in the adjudication of a rule is too much to ask, then I don't want to play D&D."


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> And the comment I didn't make was, "If expecting a DM to be reasonable and fair, (maybe even generous!) in the adjudication of a rule is too much to ask, then I don't want to play D&D."



Look, you sat at my table. Let the dice* fall where they may!

* Guaranteed** not weighted.
** Guarantee not guaranteed.


----------



## el-remmen

For all the talk of session zero and buy-in that happens on this site, there are too many people that assume that players are gonna chafe against at best or hate at worst anything the DM presents.


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> For all the talk of session zero and buy-in that happens on this site, there are too many people that assume that players are gonna chafe against at best or hate at worst anything the DM presents.



Sometimes, I read some of the posts here on EN World and wonder if anyone plays D&D with people they _actually like_.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> For all the talk of session zero and buy-in that happens on this site, there are too many people that assume that players are gonna chafe against at best or hate at worst anything the DM presents.




Hello! I would like to join your game of D&D!


----------



## el-remmen

I have been spoiled that the vast majority of people I have run D&D for have been the "whatever you want" type and are down to play the world and those who haven't been that open to anything have still been pretty easy to compromise with - save a few notable exceptions that in retrospect we were never gonna find a common ground of expectations because of personality* or game style.**

* I had one player who was the D&D equivalent of that kid at Christmas who always preferred what another kid got over his own gift no matter what it was. 

** I had one player who was a "build-first" type, and was kind of passive-aggressive when he didn't get an opportunity to use what it his character was built for all the time.


----------



## Gammadoodler

CleverNickName said:


> Sometimes, I read some of the posts here on EN World and wonder if anyone plays D&D with people they _actually like_.



I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that most of the games I've played have started with folks who were relative strangers at the time.

While most of my interactions have been positive, there certainly have been some rough patches. It's almost never really about the game.

One thing I'd say, in my experience mostly with playing online, the power imbalance between the DMs and players is far more significant than what I've seen at a home game. Where there are communications failures or disagreements, the player has to worry about being kicked from the game with no real recourse. So, as a player, you sometimes wind up tolerating a measure of discourtesy or unpleasantness you would not tolerate from friends, because playing is better than not playing.

So I don't really find a level of distrust toward DMs that surprising.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Sometimes, I read some of the posts here on EN World and wonder if anyone plays D&D with people they _actually like_.



Why... Why would I do _that_?!? I _like _those people, I would hate to have to tell them they're playing their character incorrectly, or how their backstory could be tweaked to make it more interesting, or how they could improve their personality*. If I did that with people I like, they'd never want to hang out with me! I save that for the poor benighted fools who think they're ready to sit down with me to play *Dungeons & Dragons & Disapproval*!

* Not their character's personality, mind.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Sometimes, I read some of the posts here on EN World and wonder if anyone plays D&D with people they _actually like_.




1. Play only with people that you hate.

2. Get better stories to tell enworld about how playing D&D sucks.

3. ??????

4. PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. Play only with people that you hate.



That's how you end up with a table of only Kender, and that never ends well for anybody.


----------



## RealAlHazred

eyeheartawk said:


> That's how you end up with a table of only Kender, and *that never ends well for anybody.*



I disagree, and I hate kender. I ran such a table, and may have intimated to a few of the players (separately, away from the table) about a few treasures that other party members allegedly had acquired at the expense of the group. I have never seen a table dissolve into backstabbing, shouting, and bloodthirsty diatribes faster. Man, I slept good that night.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> That's how you end up with a table of only Kender, and that never ends well for anybody.




There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of playing D&D. All competing TTRPGS will be destroyed. But always— do not forget this, eyeheartawk— always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing as you DM. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on the players who are helpless.

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a table full of players that choose, no, DEMAND to play Chaotic Neutral Kender Bards— forever


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. Play only with people that you hate.
> 
> 2. Get better stories to tell enworld about how playing D&D sucks.
> 
> 3. ??????
> 
> 4. PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!!!



Player:  "I'm gonna play a gnome bard!  He's an orphan and a loner who distrusts everyone, bucks authority, and thirsts for vengeance!  Here's the magic item wishlist you forgot to ask for, a third-party subclass I need, and two feats that I found on Reddit."

DM:  "I hate you. "

Player:  "You're welcome."


----------



## darjr

payn said:


> Amazon must be loving their Thursday Night Football rights purchase. No TDs in 6 quarters or longer???



Well, that costs extra.


----------



## eyeheartawk

"No, no hear me out. My character is basically Drizzt, _but _he's a gnome _and _a bard. Pretty cool, right?"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> Well, that costs extra.




They were going to ship you a good game, but Amazon is having supply chain issues and had to ship you the Bears/Commanders instead.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I was going to watch the game last night, but then I thought to myself " Why would today be any different? The Bears will always, _always_ be a miserable embarrassment whenever they're on national TV." 

I actually had a good day not watching the Bears. Is this what tranquility is like?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of playing D&D. All competing TTRPGS will be destroyed. But always— do not forget this, eyeheartawk— always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing as you DM. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on the players who are helpless.
> 
> If you want a picture of the future, imagine a table full of players that choose, no, DEMAND to play Chaotic Neutral Kender Bards— forever



Forget CN Kender Bards. I'm team CN Half Elf Thief. they're like cats.


----------



## Umbran

RealAlHazred said:


> Y'all ready for this? My GMing secret ingredient is a dab of fish sauce!*
> 
> _* _Not really*_*_, but I just wanted to participate.
> 
> ** Well, maybe in *Call of Cthulhu*...




"The Umami turns to look at you, and snarls.  Roll for initiative."


----------



## Tutara

It must be horrible liking something so much that you have to hate it.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Tutara said:


> It must be horrible liking something so much that you have to hate it.



Leave Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Star Trek and comic book fans out of this.


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> Forget CN Kender Bards. I'm team CN Half Elf Thief. they're like cats.
> 
> View attachment 263994



Look, even pissed off, she’s cheerful. It’s rather unnerving.


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> Look, even pissed off, she’s cheerful. It’s rather unnerving.



Jen's favourite (not serious) line is, "I'm just playing my alignment!"


----------



## Ryujin

Tutara said:


> It must be horrible liking something so much that you have to hate it.



Love... hate... Obsession is obsession.


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> Love... hate... Obsession is obsession.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Leave Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Star Trek and comic book fans out of this.




You can try and leave them out ... but it won't stay that way ....


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Love... hate... Obsession is obsession.




Unless it's one of those cheap Obsession knockoffs they sell on the internet....


----------



## payn




----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


>



That sure brings back memories. That was my version of "The After School Special" when I was a kid.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Look, even pissed off, she’s cheerful. It’s rather unnerving.




Probably happy thinking about the pain she's about to inflict...


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Probably happy thinking about the pain she's about to inflict...


----------



## RealAlHazred

It is, I think, a truism of Minecraft that the player become overconfident slowly and gradually, almost imperceptibly; it only becomes evident when you suddenly become obsessed, out of the blue, with constructing a structure that involves hours and hours of work, and may require programming your own resource packs and mods...


----------



## Cadence

"Everyone else on here is making the board totally unusable.  I show up in a thread on pizza toppings and say that pineapple is categorically bad, and then continue pointing that out to everyone who fails to acknowledge it for page after page... and i just can't do it anymore.  So I'm leaving the thread and contemplating giving up using the internet because it is so unconstructive.  I mean, I certainly can't just disengage with all of the people who seem to like pineapple!"


----------



## el-remmen

How many different ways can _you_ post "I hate that style of play and would never be in a game like that?"


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> How many different ways can _you_ post "I hate that style of play and would never be in a game like that?"



I'd offer to count them, but _blergh_.


----------



## el-remmen

The times someone has said that in response to something I've posted, I've replied, "Thankfully, I haven't asked you to."


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> The times someone has said that in response to something I've posted, I've replied, "Thankfully, I haven't asked you to."



Oh, fair. I was just hearing in my head, "How do I love thee, let me count the ways." After rejecting at least one joke about breaking the scansion, I went with the _blergh_, which seemed to sum up my feelings on *persistently* reacting to game descriptions as you describe. Well, *posting* those reactions, really. There are people where it's clear they're doing something I wouldn't want to be a part of, but I think the best response for everyone is not to *post* my thoughts on their play.

Nothing makes a joke funnier than explaining it, eh?


----------



## el-remmen

This tweet was in response to a thread of "What is your weakness as a DM?" and I found it (unintentionally?) funny.


----------



## trappedslider

The 1986 Oldsmobile Incas Had The Wildest Dashboard You've Never Seen
					

This Olds is straight out of Blade Runner.




					www.thedrive.com


----------



## Gradine

el-remmen said:


> This tweet was in response to a thread of "What is your weakness as a DM?" and I found it (unintentionally?) funny.
> 
> View attachment 264063


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> View attachment 264065



As though that's an actual choice ...


----------



## darjr

“Sometimes I do grimace”

And I immediately thought “he must be happy”

Grimace, grimace must be happy.


----------



## darjr

If you think the internet isn't above making fun of people I have a toy police badge to sell you.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> The 1986 Oldsmobile Incas Had The Wildest Dashboard You've Never Seen
> 
> 
> This Olds is straight out of Blade Runner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



I had an '86 Olds Toronado that looked similar, but also a bit more conventional. Flip up headlights, auto raising radio antenna, self sealing trunk, four cigarette lighters and ash trays, leather seats more comfortable than a sofa.....


----------



## trappedslider

@Ryujin so, I skipped a step but at least you can tell what I was looking at doing. Then I looked more at different pictures and realized that I didn't need a full bracer, just a cover for half of my lower arm and I put the "tubing" wrong as well. Luckily I still have a lot of foam left, to do it correctly and the shoulders.  This was just with one coat, I think when I do what I'm supposed to do lol I'll see about using my air brush for the silver/metal look.


Spoiler


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> @Ryujin so, I skipped a step but at least you can tell what I was looking at doing. Then I looked more at different pictures and realized that I didn't need a full bracer, just a cover for half of my lower arm and I put the "tubing" wrong as well. Luckily I still have a lot of foam left, to do it correctly and the shoulders.  This was just with one coat, I think when I do what I'm supposed to do lol I'll see about using my air brush for the silver/metal look.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 264090



You won't get any comments about a mistake from a guy who cut a piece of leather for a project upside-down, this afternoon 

When I wanted a bright metallic finish on my 3D printer Phaser, a while back, I searched like mad until I finally got my hands on a can of Rust-oleum "Bright Coat" metallic finish silver paint. It came out looking a lot like milled aluminum, though that was on a solid and smooth surface.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> You won't get any comments about a mistake from a guy who cut a piece of leather for a project upside-down, this afternoon
> 
> When I wanted a bright metallic finish on my 3D printer Phaser, a while back, I searched like mad until I finally got my hands on a can of Rust-oleum "Bright Coat" metallic finish silver paint. It came out looking a lot like milled aluminum, though that was on a solid and smooth surface.



Well, like I've been saying it's a learning experience as I go along. When I start work for the galaticon (held during the UFO festival) in the summer I'll know what I need and how to do it.  I'll also have a longer time frame to do it all.


----------



## Cadence

I'm used to hearing about strange fair food... but this sighting at the SC State Fair is at another level...


----------



## el-remmen




----------



## prabe

If a wall of text runs into a wall of text, what happens?


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> If a wall of text runs into a wall of text, what happens?



The End of All Things, by geometric progression.


----------



## el-remmen

prabe said:


> If a wall of text runs into a wall of text, what happens?




Little remembered fact: Moveable text printing was invented to avoid the tragic consequences of such collisions!


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Little remembered fact: Moveable text printing was invented to avoid the tragic consequences of such collisions!


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


>












						Where Everybody Knows You’re Men: NBC’s Cheers & White American Masculinity
					

When manhood and nation are synonymous women just become a way for men measure patriotism.




					themiddlespaces.com


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Where Everybody Knows You’re Men: NBC’s Cheers & White American Masculinity
> 
> 
> When manhood and nation are synonymous women just become a way for men measure patriotism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> themiddlespaces.com



So, the “little know fact there..” Cliff Calvin joke no longer ok to make?


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> So, the “little know fact there..” Cliff Calvin joke no longer ok to make?




Not sure how you got that. I just wanted to share that I've written about _Cheers.    _


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> Where Everybody Knows You’re Men: NBC’s Cheers & White American Masculinity
> 
> 
> When manhood and nation are synonymous women just become a way for men measure patriotism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> themiddlespaces.com




By the way this was my 10,000th post!


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Not sure how you got that. I just wanted to share that I've written about _Cheers.   _



Oh, I didn’t know it was your column. I was confused because it was a link with no comments in the post.


----------



## trappedslider

Well at least this time it wasn't an episode-by-episode hate-watch but instead a summary of the season.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Is it something in the water? Is it because of the playtest?

Is there some reason every thread, no matter the topic, has to become, "Let me forumsplain to you why (a certain edition) did it best, and why 5e sucks?" 

Did I miss the memo?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Is it something in the water? Is it because of the playtest?
> 
> Is there some reason every thread, no matter the topic, has to become, "Let me forumsplain to you why (a certain edition) did it best, and why 5e sucks?"
> 
> Did I miss the memo?


----------



## Cadence

"Detroit style pizza is really its own thing, and it does it a diservice to just label it as 'pizza'.  Doing so makes people expect it to do things it doesn't, and it holds them back from embracing what Detroit style has always done really well in its own unique way.

And so anyway, the best Detroit style pizza place is this one that ignores half of the distinctiveness of Detroit style and splices it with New York style. I completely don't get why the Detroit style fans don't love it, so let me explain (again)."


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> "Detroit style pizza is really its own thing..."




Detriot style is Sicilian with a different cheese.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## trappedslider

Umbran said:


> Detriot style is Sicilian with a different cheese.



Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line!


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line!




Or pizza.  Death or pizza.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> Or pizza.  Death or pizza.



And if you put pineapple on it you get both!

Note: I misspelled pineapple but when I typed “death” it was autocorrected to pineapple. Coincidence? No, I think not.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> And if you put pineapple on it you get both!
> 
> Note: I misspelled pineapple but when I typed “death” it was autocorrected to pineapple. Coincidence? No, I think not.




"Man, you look like death on pizza."


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> "Man, you look like death on pizza."



What do you mean?


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> What do you mean?




What do I mean?
Dude, having meaning is so 20th century. 
Having pizza is the new pink!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> What do you mean?




I was tired of my gaming
Been playing it too long
Like a worn out recording
Of a favorite song

So while others were arguin'
'Bout a new edition to dread
I thought about the other games
'Bout which I have read

If you like pineapple pizza
Don't want nothing that's plain
If you're not into tradition
If you have half a brain
If you like playin' games at midnight
Maybe a character with a cape
Then try the pineapple pizza
Write to me and escape


----------



## eyeheartawk

I just wanted to pop by and say that in my game the other day I had to come up with a wizard on the spot, so my players encountered the Red Wizard of the East, Stoseph Jalin. 

I am not a very original man.


----------



## Cadence

Why?


----------



## darjr

eyeheartawk said:


> I just wanted to pop by and say that in my game the other day I had to come up with a wizard on the spot, so my players encountered the Red Wizard of the East, Stoseph Jalin.
> 
> I am not a very original man.



Uh! I feel ROBBED!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> I just wanted to pop by and say that in my game the other day I had to come up with a wizard on the spot, so my players encountered the Red Wizard of the East, Stoseph Jalin.
> 
> I am not a very original man.




What's a Russian Oligarch's favorite hors d'oeuvre?



Spoiler



Putin on the Ritz.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Cadence said:


> Why?
> 
> View attachment 264185



This picture of ol' Rorschach here made me think. I'm pretty sure the overlap between people who unironically like Rorschach from Watchmen, the Imperium in 40k and whatever the government in Starship Troopers is called are a perfect circle.


----------



## Cadence

I'm now imagining how much food and water Sam and Frodo would have been able to set off towards Mordor with using D&D encumberence rules.  The selection of spices Sam could have brought!


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> This picture of ol' Rorschach here made me think. I'm pretty sure the overlap between people who unironically like Rorschach from Watchmen, the Imperium in 40k and whatever the government in Starship Troopers is called are a perfect circle.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

eyeheartawk said:


> This picture of ol' Rorschach here made me think. I'm pretty sure the overlap between people who unironically like Rorschach from Watchmen, the Imperium in 40k and whatever the government in Starship Troopers is called are a perfect circle.


----------



## Gradine

I have seen so many gifs of this man (superman?) and each one makes his face look increasingly non-human


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> I have seen so many gifs of this man (superman?) and each one makes his face look increasingly non-human



_Homelander_ played by Anthony Starr. He has great facial expressions as an actor.


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> This picture of ol' Rorschach here made me think. I'm pretty sure the overlap between people who unironically like Rorschach from Watchmen, the Imperium in 40k and whatever the government in Starship Troopers is called are a perfect circle.



Same folks that think Glorion is the hero in "JourneyQuest."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Same folks that think Glorion is the hero in "JourneyQuest."




Some people think that Simba is the hero of the _Lion King_.

#TeamScar


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Some people think that Simba is the hero of the _Lion King_.
> 
> #TeamScar



Have you heard the tale of Darth Sidious the Strong? It's not a story George Lucas would tell you...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> Have you heard the tale of Darth Sidious the Strong? It's not a story George Lucas would tell you...




_Evil will always triumph, because good is ... so basic. Better to get your swerve on in Hell than practice harp-playin' in Heaven._
-John "Hot Rod" Milton


----------



## Cadence

I sometimes have trouble deciding what's more annoying in a thread:
"I had a really bad experience with X so fixing X is the most important thing in the world."
or
"I never had trouble with X so leave X alone.  It will cause badness if you change anything."

And then I remember its the people who say both about different things in the same thread.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> I sometimes have trouble deciding what's more annoying in a thread:
> "I had a really bad experience with X so fixing X is the most important thing in the world."
> or
> "I never had trouble with X so leave X alone.  It will cause badness if you change anything."
> 
> And then I remember its the people who say both about different things in the same thread.



I just cut to the chase and combine both in one sentence. "D&D 5E is almost the absolute worst garbage game in the history of role-playing games, coming in just marginally ahead of every other game ever published; therefore, 5E gets my highest-ever rating -- 3 out of 10."


----------



## el-remmen

Speaking of missing the point. . .

*Mod Edit:* Sorry, but no religion.  You know that.  ~Umbran


----------



## RealAlHazred

Listen, I love the explanation somebody came up with for Saint Uncumber, also known as Wilgefortis. Apparently, some of the recently-converted were confused by the statue of a crucified bearded person _wearing a dress_ (tunic), and decided it must be a woman who prayed for a beard.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Speaking of missing the point. . .


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



No friggin' clue


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> No friggin' clue




Well, she would say "nut up," but women are much tougher.


----------



## RealAlHazred

el-remmen said:


> Speaking of missing the point. . .
> 
> View attachment 264190



"Look, Jesus wasn't a ripped manly-man, he was something of a pacifist and a teacher."
"If he wasn't a manly man, he _never _would have survived the crucifixion! It would've taken a _miracle_!"


----------



## J.Quondam

So, _not_ "bow-chicka-wow"? 
Not sure if disappointed or relieved.


----------



## Cadence

I sometimes read threads and wonder how much better D&D could be if we took the ideas that show up in some threads on here and added them to the game.

I inevitably cure myself of wanting folks on here to have anything to do with the state of the official game by just reading a few more posts.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> So, _not_ "bow-chicka-wow"?
> Not sure if disappointed or relieved.









_ohhhhhh..... OTHER JESUS! I was really having trouble following this conversation. _


----------



## Mad_Jack

eyeheartawk said:


> I just wanted to pop by and say that in my game the other day I had to come up with a wizard on the spot, so my players encountered the Red Wizard of the East, Stoseph Jalin.




 During the 4E game at my FLGS, the DM's "campaign map" was a piece of a board game board.
 It took a couple sessions before I figured out that we were adventuring in Civil War-era South Carolina...

My character's backstory as a ranger explained her hatred of gnolls, and even to this day, ever since I figured out what the map was, I have a hard time not picturing gnolls dressed in Confederate uniforms...  




Cadence said:


> View attachment 264187


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _ohhhhhh..... OTHER JESUS! I was really having trouble following this conversation. _



Hey, the Jesus rolls...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mad_Jack said:


> During the 4E game at my FLGS, the DM's "campaign map" was a piece of a board game board.
> It took a couple sessions before I figured out that we were adventuring in Civil War-era South Carolina...



RPGs have a long history of that...


----------



## Umbran

*Mod Note:*
Folks, the Jesus talk stops now.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

You sometimes wake up from a dream and think, "Thank God, I didn't really do that!" Reconstructing a period of blackout you think, "My God, did I really do that?" The line between saying and thinking is blurred. Did you say it or just think it?


----------



## CleverNickName

When I first read that thread title, I thought you meant Expert as in "the E in BECMI" and I got really excited.  "Why yes!" I would have said, "I've played all of them at one point or another in the late 1980s and early 1990s!"  And then I would have gone on to type about how druids and paladins were 'subclasses' of clerics and fighters, respectively, and how for all its faults BECMI might have been ahead of its time in some ways.

Alas, closer inspection reveals the truth.  It's not a rare appreciation thread about the Basic and Expert rules set; it's just one more thread about OneD&D to add to the pile.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Did you say it or just think it?




 The part I hate is when I think something, and then someone nearby responds as though I'd said it out loud...

I start to wonder if I've been broadcasting my thoughts to everyone, or maybe gotten hit with a bad case of Visible Thought Bubbles.

On the other hand, it does tend to be useful when I think to myself, "Y'know, I could really go for a pizza right now...", and someone else actually says, "I could really go for a pizza right now..."


----------



## J.Quondam

Mad_Jack said:


> or maybe gotten hit with a bad case of Visible Thought Bubbles.



Yeah, that's especially awkward when it happens in the hot tub.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> The part I hate is when I think something, and then someone nearby responds as though I'd said it out loud...
> 
> I start to wonder if I've been broadcasting my thoughts to everyone, or maybe gotten hit with a bad case of Visible Thought Bubbles.




Mad_Jack:
They say you murdered someone in an edition war. Is that true?

Snarf:
Who told you that?

Mad_Jack:
Word gets around.

Snarf:
It wasn't murder. It was an accident. Overly sharp wit.

Mad_Jack:
There are no accidents. For example, I've been killing a fan of the second edition slowly over a period of years.

Snarf:
What?

Mad_Jack:
Well, not intentionally. I mean, on the level of conscious intention ... to kill someone over a silly game of dragons and wizards and unicorns.... that would be insane, monstrous.

Snarf:
But you do consciously know you're murdering someone! You just said it. We're discussing it.

Mad_Jack:
Not consciously. This is all happening telepathically, non-consciously.

Snarf:
What do you mean?

Mad_Jack:
If you look carefully at my lips, you'll realize that I'm actually saying something else. I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering fans of older editions of D&D.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Mad_Jack:
> They say you murdered someone in an edition war. Is that true?
> 
> Snarf:
> Who told you that?
> 
> Mad_Jack:
> Word gets around.
> 
> Snarf:
> It wasn't murder. It was an accident. Overly sharp wit.
> 
> Mad_Jack:
> There are no accidents. For example, I've been killing a fan of the second edition slowly over a period of years.
> 
> Snarf:
> What?
> 
> Mad_Jack:
> Well, not intentionally. I mean, on the level of conscious intention ... to kill someone over a silly game of dragons and wizards and unicorns.... that would be insane, monstrous.
> 
> Snarf:
> But you do consciously know you're murdering someone! You just said it. We're discussing it.
> 
> Mad_Jack:
> Not consciously. This is all happening telepathically, non-consciously.
> 
> Snarf:
> What do you mean?
> 
> Mad_Jack:
> If you look carefully at my lips, you'll realize that I'm actually saying something else. I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering fans of older editions of D&D.



It makes more sense if you think the roach powder is heroin, dunnit?


----------



## payn

So, I dont really ever watch network television anymore. Well, except in the fall when Sunday Night Football (Americano) is on. I flipped on my tellie a few min ago. I usually check email, prepare a meal, etc... while the TV starts up. Still tuned to NBC from last night and the political ads...HOLY SMOKES that's some dark stuff coming out of there at an alarming rate.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> It makes more sense if you think the roach powder is heroin, dunnit?




Wait ... so THAT'S why it wasn't killing the bugs.






_i just kept applying more ......._


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering fans of older editions of D&D.




 It's true, though... I'm actually responsible for telepathically forcing the D&D folks to release the past four new editions, in order to make fans of the older editions so mad their heads explode...

 Well, no, not really...

But I do know someone who's a 1st Ed. AD&D fan (and kind of a <bleep>), and I really am trying to kill him slowly - every time I bump into him I like to remind him that his favorite character failed a save he should have made, bombed the system shock roll to survive the _polymorph_, and then got reincarnated as a bugbear...


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Wait ... so THAT'S why it wasn't killing the bugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _i just kept applying more ......._



Maybe you should have tried including the bugs in your William Tell act.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You sometimes wake up from a dream and think, "Thank God, I didn't really do that!" Reconstructing a period of blackout you think, "My God, did I really do that?" The line between saying and thinking is blurred. Did you say it or just think it?



Yeah, when I wake up from being blackout drunk and realize I had decided to eat a Crave Case from White Castle.


----------



## Cadence

And now I'm picturing riffs off of the coney scene in LotR, where Sam is offering Gollum pineapple pizza, hotdogs with catsup, and well done steaks.


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> And now I'm picturing riffs off of the coney scene in LotR, where Sam is offering Gollum pineapple pizza, hotdogs with catsup, and well done steaks.



...with catsup


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> ...with catsup




And his brief hope it actually involves dogs and cats...


----------



## el-remmen

It is kind of amazing the myriad ways there are to forget we're talking about a game.


EDIT: Ooops. I mean PIZZA.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Maybe you should have tried including the bugs in your William Tell act.




I creeched louder still, creeching: 'Am I just to be like a clockwork orange?' It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem real when you hear them with the ol' Billy Tell.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I creeched louder still, creeching: 'Am I just to be like a clockwork orange?' It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem real when you hear them with the ol' Billy Tell.



Twenty chapters or twenty-one?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Twenty chapters or twenty-one?




_(I wrote a very long paper on this in college. The answer is simply that the difference results in completely different messages. Which version you "prefer" is much more a reflection of how you view humanity.)_


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _(I wrote a very long paper on this in college. The answer is simply that the difference results in completely different messages. Which version you "prefer" is much more a reflection of how you view humanity.)_



I'm going to phrase this basically as it comes to me, please do not take it as an attack: What do (or perhaps _did_) you think it says about my view of humanity that I prefer the story with the 21st chapter? Does it change your thinking that my reason (that I was most aware of) was because that's the version *Burgess* preferred?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I'm going to phrase this basically as it comes to me, please do not take it as an attack: What do (or perhaps _did_) you think it says about my view of humanity that I prefer the story with the 21st chapter? Does it change your thinking that my reason (that I was most aware of) was because that's the version *Burgess* preferred?




_Personal preferences are a heckuva thing. People ... well, they like what they like. I think that there are a number of people who like the 21 chapter version because others are unfamiliar with it, so it has the dual imprimatur of being "cool" (like a band that other people don't know about) as well as being the "intended meaning" of the author. But a lot of people genuinely prefer it for the message. 

...but the story comes with an even more complicated twist. Yes, the book originally was written with 21 chapters. And yes, Burgess later complained about the "American cut." But later letters show that Burgess was actually more ambivalent about the American cut than he publicly let on. The inclusion of the 21st chapter doesn't make the story better; instead, it takes away the power of the story in exchange for a force-fed pabulum ending. "Hey reader- free will is good. Maturity matters." IMO.

I came to this opinion over time, and a LOT of reading of the book and viewing of the movie. The inclusion of the 21st chapter makes the overall work ... worse. I appreciate his reasoning (and yes, 21 = age, 21 = 3x7, etc.), but the editor did an unqualified good to the world in excising that chapter. The book should end with, "I was cured all right." Providing easy answers ... make the book worse. 

But I respect that others think differently. _


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Personal preferences are a heckuva thing. People ... well, they like what they like. I think that there are a number of people who like the 21 chapter version because others are unfamiliar with it, so it has the dual imprimatur of being "cool" (like a band that other people don't know about) as well as being the "intended meaning" of the author. But a lot of people genuinely prefer it for the message.
> 
> ...but the story comes with an even more complicated twist. Yes, the book originally was written with 21 chapters. And yes, Burgess later complained about the "American cut." But later letters show that Burgess was actually more ambivalent about the American cut than he publicly let on. The inclusion of the 21st chapter doesn't make the story better; instead, it takes away the power of the story in exchange for a force-fed pabulum ending. "Hey reader- free will is good. Maturity matters." IMO.
> 
> I came to this opinion over time, and a LOT of reading of the book and viewing of the movie. The inclusion of the 21st chapter makes the overall work ... worse. I appreciate his reasoning (and yes, 21 = age, 21 = 3x7, etc.), but the editor did an unqualified good to the world in excising that chapter. The book should end with, "I was cured all right." Providing easy answers ... make the book worse.
> 
> But I respect that others think differently. _



Endings are ... difficult, and often arbitrary. There is (or seems from here to be) consistency between your thoughts on irony and ambiguity and your thoughts on the "easy answers" in the 21st chapter.

But that's enough serious talk and deep thinking. Let's have a gif!


----------



## prabe

@Snarf Zagyg Also, thanks for the serious answer.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Endings are ... difficult, and often arbitrary. There is (or seems from here to be) consistency between your thoughts on irony and ambiguity and your thoughts on the "easy answers" in the 21st chapter.
> 
> But that's enough serious talk and deep thinking. Let's have a gif!


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> ...




Look! It's no thread on enworld, ever!


----------



## Galandris

awesome,​adjective.
awe·some                                            |            \ ˈȯ-səm     


Definition of _awesome_​ 
           1a*: *inspiring awe                                                              an awesome task/responsibility             a place of awesome beauty                                     
b  informal   *: *terrific, extraordinary                                                              had an awesome time at the concert                     

           2*: *expressive of awe                                                              awesome tribute          
*3: totally devoid of pineapple.*


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Look! It's no thread on enworld, ever!



Especially if it's *someone else's pizza* because everyone else likes crap pizza.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Especially if it's *someone else's pizza* because everyone else likes crap pizza.




I have engaged in the art of advanced Rules-lawyering to ensure that not only does my side of the pizza had the correct(tm) toppings, but your side of the pizza has the correct(tm) toppings as well.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have engaged in the art of advanced Rules-lawyering to ensure that not only does my side of the pizza had the correct(tm) toppings, but your side of the pizza has the correct(tm) toppings as well.



So basically you order for the table.

Blessed be, indeed.


----------



## el-remmen

I have often argued that endings are overrated in determining the value of a story.

For example, I think _LOST _was an (overall) awesome show. Some people argue that the ending and lack of answers "ruined it." I argue that the whole point was they were lost all along and any ending involving "finding answers" would have been worse (and to the degree they tried to give answers in that ending is what made it awful). I simply have never re-watched that ending, but have enjoyed part of the previous seasons over and over.

This is out of date now (esp. given Adnan Syad's recent freeing from prison), but I explored the idea of endings using _Lost _and the _Serial _podcast back in 2014: “We have to go back!” Getting Lost in the Serial Podcast


----------



## el-remmen

"You can't tell me what to do!"

Sure. But I can ignore you.


----------



## CleverNickName

Looking through old Unearthed Arcana playtest documents be like


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> So basically you order for the table.
> 
> Blessed be, indeed.




Order for the table?

I order for the restaurant. Then I go all James Corden until the pizzeria starts "making the Pizza right."


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> I have often argued that endings are overrated in determining the value of a story.
> 
> For example, I think _LOST _was an (overall) awesome show. Some people argue that the ending and lack of answers "ruined it." I argue that the whole point was they were lost all along and any ending involving "finding answers" would have been worse (and to the degree they tried to give answers in that ending is what made it awful). I simply have never re-watched that ending, but have enjoyed part of the previous seasons over and over.
> 
> This is out of date now (esp. given Adnan Syad's recent freeing from prison), but I explored the idea of endings using _Lost _and the _Serial _podcast back in 2014: “We have to go back!” Getting Lost in the Serial Podcast



Some of the overvaluing is probably because it's what you're most likely to remember--I mean, if you read a 150,000-word novel, you're more likely to remember the end than some random 4,000-word passage about halfway through.

Also, see my previous comment about how endings can be difficult (from the author's POV) and are often kinda arbitrary, because there's almost always more that'll happen. Beginnings, you have an instigating event.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Order for the table?
> 
> I order for the restaurant. Then I go all James Corden until the pizzeria starts "making the Pizza right."



I'm a big fan of standing a round, now and again.

As a side note, I mostly don't go to bars for budgetary reasons.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I have often argued that endings are overrated in determining the value of a story.
> 
> For example, I think _LOST _was an (overall) awesome show. Some people argue that the ending and lack of answers "ruined it." I argue that the whole point was they were lost all along and any ending involving "finding answers" would have been worse (and to the degree they tried to give answers in that ending is what made it awful). I simply have never re-watched that ending, but have enjoyed part of the previous seasons over and over.
> 
> This is out of date now (esp. given Adnan Syad's recent freeing from prison), but I explored the idea of endings using _Lost _and the _Serial _podcast back in 2014: “We have to go back!” Getting Lost in the Serial Podcast



I remember this Agatha Christie novel (with a terrible title changed to an equally terrible title...) that had this mysterious island meetup with a group of strangers. Actually, its a pretty great story because all of them have done something terrible, and have no reason why they were brought together. All they know is they are being bumped off one by one. Christie added a prologue to the book that gives answers to all the mystery that essentially ruins the story. 

I think all these strange phenomena series suffer the same fate. The show is interesting because of the mystery. Once you start explaining it, however, things get less interesting and the experience suffers. I actually prefer open endings with answers still in the wind to something logical to explain it away. Folks tend to hate open endings though. I remember a bunch of folks pissed that _Fellowship of the Ring_ didn't have a definite conclusion at the end of the film. There was also no way they didn't know it was part of a trilogy, but that didn't matter they still wanted a definite ending.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Looking through old Unearthed Arcana playtest documents be like
> 
> View attachment 264257



... And then they go and add Calzones and Strombolis, which are _not pizzas_...


----------



## Gradine

Unironically calzones > pizza


----------



## CleverNickName

RealAlHazred said:


> ... And then they go and add Calzones and Strombolis, which are _not pizzas_...



Man, we left "real pizza" (and god) behind long before we got to stromboli.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Man, we left "real pizza" (and god) behind long before we got to stromboli.



As long as we dont get to the Pazone.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


> Unironically calzones > pizza



I mean, when I'm in the mood for a Calzone, a pizza slice won't satisfy.

Also, I'll eat enough calories in one sitting to last a normal human for two days...


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> Unironically calzones > pizza



I agree!  (Especially with the part where you don't use an equal sign, because _calzones are not pizza._)

Here's how I'd rank the foods on that poster:
Calzone > Pizza >> the Illinois Casserole > Stromboli > Scottish deep-fried Hot PocketTM >> a sad stack of tortillas > waffle cone full of marinara > actual garbage > warm sushi


----------



## eyeheartawk

Please, won't somebody think of the bigoted publishers  children


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Man, we left "real pizza" (and god) behind long before we got to stromboli.









_A bagel bite is neither pizza, nor bagel, but the inarguable proof that God is both dead and hates you. 
-Nietzsche, probably. _


----------



## eyeheartawk

You're forgetting the part where, yes we did stray from God's light, but in return we got to have pizza anytime.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _A bagel bite is neither pizza, nor bagel, but the inarguable proof that God is both dead and hates you.
> -Nietzsche, probably. _



Seems legit.


----------



## payn

RealAlHazred said:


> I mean, when I'm in the mood for a Calzone, a pizza slice won't satisfy.
> 
> Also, I'll eat enough calories in one sitting to last a normal human for two days...



The Pazone has enough sodium for 6 weeks. Maybe even in every bite?


----------



## Cadence

"Do we need to know the relative power of the people in the conversation to determine if it is actually classifiable as that?"


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> "Do we need to know the relative power of the people in the conversation to determine if it is actually classifiable as that?"



Not sure what this is in reference to, but generally yeah?


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> I have often argued that endings are overrated in determining the value of a story.
> 
> For example, I think _LOST _was an (overall) awesome show. Some people argue that the ending and lack of answers "ruined it." I argue that the whole point was they were lost all along and any ending involving "finding answers" would have been worse (and to the degree they tried to give answers in that ending is what made it awful). I simply have never re-watched that ending, but have enjoyed part of the previous seasons over and over.
> 
> This is out of date now (esp. given Adnan Syad's recent freeing from prison), but I explored the idea of endings using _Lost _and the _Serial _podcast back in 2014: “We have to go back!” Getting Lost in the Serial Podcast



I just watched for a couple of seasons, after coming to the conclusion that they were all dead pretty early on, and moved on to something else.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> I just watched for a couple of seasons, after coming to the conclusion that they were all dead pretty early on




I know! I can't believe Damon Lindelof, when writing _Lost_, decided to shamelessly copy the entire plot of _Mary Poppins_.


----------



## Gradine

They weren't all dead all along. People always say that and it's never actually been true. I mean, except in the "flash-sideways" stuff that happened in the final season, but that was more of a "flash-way-_way_-forward" than anything.

_Lost _actually had a great ending.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> They weren't all dead all along. People always say that and it's never actually been true. I mean, except in the "flash-sideways" stuff that happened in the final season, but that was more of a "flash-way-_way_-forward" than anything.
> 
> _Lost _actually had a great ending.




All of these debates about shows' endings have happened before, and all of these debates about shows' endings will happen again.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> All of these debates about shows' endings have happened before, and all of these debates about shows' endings will happen again.



Also a fantastic ending (until the last scene, anyway).

Fun fact: I was playing _Mass Effect 3_ at launch and loving every minute of it and started hearing grumbling about the ending, and I just kind of rolled my eyes, because of how much people complained about these two shows' endings and were incredibly wrong about them.

Turns out they weren't wrong about _Mass Effect 3 _though.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Also a fantastic ending (until the last scene, anyway).




Random (non-ordered) list of some of my favorite endings in TV history. I am sure there are others, but this is off the top of my head. If I had to go with one, it might The Leftovers.

1. The Americans.
2. The Prisoner.
3. Blake's 7.
4. Newhart.
5. Mr. Robot.
6. Angel.
7. The Leftovers.
8. The Shield.
9. BoJack Horseman.
10. The Sopranos.


Bonus: I can tell a lot about a person simply by learning their opinion of the ending of the Sopranos.

(slight edit)


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Bonus: I can tell a lot about a person simply by learning their opinion of the ending of the Sopranos.




What if they just got bored somewhere in the third season and never went back to watch any more it?


----------



## el-remmen

Gradine said:


> I just kind of rolled my eyes, because of how much people complained about these two shows' endings and were incredibly wrong about them.




There is always someone who takes it too far.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Random (non-ordered) list of some of my favorite endings in TV history. I am sure there are others, but this is off the top of my head. If I had to go with one, it might The Leftovers.
> 
> 1. The Americans.
> 2. The Prisoner.
> 3. Blake's 7.
> 4. Newhart.
> 5. Mr. Robot.
> 6. Angel.
> 7. The Leftovers.
> 8. The Shield.
> 9. BoJack Horseman.
> 10. The Sopranos.
> 
> 
> Bonus: I can tell a lot about a person simply by learning their opinion of the ending of the Sopranos.
> 
> (slight edit)



How awful is "never saw it"?

I've only seen three of the series on your list (and only final episodes for two of them :-/ ).


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> How awful is "never saw it"?
> 
> I've only seen three of the series on your list (and only final episodes for two of them :-/ ).



Could be worse. I don't think I've seen any of those final episodes in their entirety, and I've only seen any episodes from two of them. That's more about the shape my life has been in than any judgment on the shows, in many instances not even like about my preferences--there are some of those shows I kinda want to watch, but haven't for other reasons.

Of course, I mostly (mostly!) stay out of conversations about TV shows I haven't watched.


----------



## Gradine

Mike Flannigan's shows on Netflix are not only excellent in general but generally have excellent endings.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Random (non-ordered) list of some of my favorite endings in TV history. I am sure there are others, but this is off the top of my head. If I had to go with one, it might The Leftovers.
> 
> 1. The Americans.
> 2. The Prisoner.
> 3. Blake's 7.
> 4. Newhart.
> 5. Mr. Robot.
> 6. Angel.
> 7. The Leftovers.
> 8. The Shield.
> 9. BoJack Horseman.
> 10. The Sopranos.
> 
> 
> Bonus: I can tell a lot about a person simply by learning their opinion of the ending of the Sopranos.
> 
> (slight edit)




 The only one on that list I've watched is Angel, and that was mostly because it was on as reruns during my general after-work tv time... I'm sure I've seen the end of the series, but don't really remember it.

_Leverage_ had a really good final episode.


On a different tangent, we really need to find a different metaphor for discussing gaming than pizza... Otherwise I'm going to have to stop reading this thread - it's making me hungry, and pizza isn't in my budget at the moment.


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> Mike Flannigan's shows on Netflix are not only excellent in general but generally have excellent endings.



The ending of _Bly Manor_ was probably my favorite, with _Hill House_ and _Midnight Mass_ tied for second.  We haven't watched _The Midnight Club_ yet, but I think we're starting it next week.

_Midnight Mass _has my favorite monologue of all time, too.  "You stole from me things I didn't even have yet. You _reached through time_, Joe Collie! You reached through time and you stole."


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Random (non-ordered) list of some of my favorite endings in TV history. I am sure there are others, but this is off the top of my head. If I had to go with one, it might The Leftovers.
> 
> 1. The Americans.
> 2. The Prisoner.
> 3. Blake's 7.
> 4. Newhart.
> 5. Mr. Robot.
> 6. Angel.
> 7. The Leftovers.
> 8. The Shield.
> 9. BoJack Horseman.
> 10. The Sopranos.
> 
> 
> Bonus: I can tell a lot about a person simply by learning their opinion of the ending of the Sopranos.
> 
> (slight edit)



Watched "The Prisoner" as part of my college film class. I was rather surprised that I was the only one who had seen it before.


----------



## Ryujin

Gradine said:


> Mike Flannigan's shows on Netflix are not only excellent in general but generally have excellent endings.



Currently doing a slow watch of "The Midnight Club" and very much enjoying it.


----------



## Deset Gled

I need a better gender neutral plural to address groups.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> Random (non-ordered) list of some of my favorite endings in TV history. I am sure there are others, but this is off the top of my head. If I had to go with one, it might The Leftovers.
> 
> 1. The Americans.
> 2. The Prisoner.
> 3. Blake's 7.
> 4. Newhart.
> 5. Mr. Robot.
> 6. Angel.
> 7. The Leftovers.
> 8. The Shield.
> 9. BoJack Horseman.
> 10. The Sopranos.
> 
> 
> Bonus: I can tell a lot about a person simply by learning their opinion of the ending of the Sopranos.
> 
> (slight edit)




Just riffing here...


Dinosaurs
Kids in the Hall (1994 ending)
ALF (unintentionally)
Reboot (1997 ending - great musical number)
ST:TNG
MASH
St. Elsewhere (honestly, don't really care about the show much, but the ending has had epic results)
The Good Place


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> On a different tangent, we really need to find a different metaphor for discussing gaming than pizza... Otherwise I'm going to have to stop reading this thread - it's making me hungry, and pizza isn't in my budget at the moment.




See, I totally get that you like tacos de lengua, but why can't you respect my love of al pastor?

Can we at least agree that those people that keep coming into threads and insisting we eat Old El Paso are just out of line?


----------



## Galandris

Deset Gled said:


> Just riffing here...
> 
> 
> Dinosaurs





Personnaly, I quite liked the ending of the dinosaurs myself. Huge ball of fire, incredible, apparently kilometer-high tsunami all over the continents, the special effects were huge and, tbh, dwarfed anything made by Holywood these days. The only drawback were the rodents, real Mary Sues those one, surviving when the mighty T-rex failed, honestly???


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. The Americans.



You liked that one huh? I felt like the entire final season was really weak.


----------



## Eric V

payn said:


> You liked that one huh? I felt like the entire final season was really weak.



Really?  I felt it was some of their best acting.  I can see how the plot involving stopping the coup might have seemed too...convenient.  Still, loved the uncertainty we are left with.


----------



## trappedslider

Deset Gled said:


> St. Elsewhere (honestly, don't really care about the show much, but the ending has had epic results)



psst that show is still going on
Tommy Westphall Universe


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> The ending of _Bly Manor_ was probably my favorite, with _Hill House_ and _Midnight Mass_ tied for second.  We haven't watched _The Midnight Club_ yet, but I think we're starting it next week.



I'm probably right there with you. _Midnight Mass _might edge out _Bly Manor _as my favorite overall, if only because *god damn *did Hamish Linklater knock it out of the naughty wording park. _Midnight Club_ is very very different in a lot of ways but in a lot of ways it's also very much the same. 

Also I made a meme once!


----------



## Deset Gled

I currently have no one on my ignore list.  But you best believe that if a bunch of yous get that thread shut down because you can't STFU about who hates things the right way, everyone involved in that altercation is going on the list ASAP.


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> psst that show is still going on
> Tommy Westphall Universe




 Damn... That list is still growing? lol


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> I currently have no one on my ignore list.  But you best believe that if a bunch of yous get that thread shut down because you can't STFU about who hates things the right way, everyone involved in that altercation is going on the list ASAP.



I begin to think it might be for the best.


----------



## trappedslider

Mad_Jack said:


> Damn... That list is still growing? lol



and it will keep growing.....


----------



## Mad_Jack

There's a reason I don't generally post in any of the actual game discussion threads... 

That reason is comprised of about a dozen sub-reasons.

None of which I'm going to discuss.

Mainly because the only way to properly express my feeling on the issue would be to burn down the entire internet, pimpslap that Michael Jackson wannabe Thanos, take his bling, and snap my fingers.


----------



## trappedslider

should put in place a new rule about media adaptations: New thread must be made when discussing differences between source media


----------



## prabe

Mad_Jack said:


> There's a reason I don't generally post in any of the actual game discussion threads...
> 
> That reason is comprised of about a dozen sub-reasons.
> 
> None of which I'm going to discuss.
> 
> Mainly because the only way to properly express my feeling on the issue would be to burn down the entire internet, pimpslap that Michael Jackson wannabe Thanos, take his bling, and snap my fingers.



I sympathize, and I applaud your self-restraint.


----------



## gorice

CleverNickName said:


> Looking through old Unearthed Arcana playtest documents be like
> 
> View attachment 264257



No curry pizza on this list. What is this garbage?

Also, real Greek pizza is three types of cheese, none of which is feta, plus whole rashers of bacon.


----------



## Gradine

I love that you can tell D&D is not just cool but mainstream cool because of the entire subculture that has sprung up around how basic it and its fans are.

"Myself, I only play postpunk prewave German tradstory games from Spring 1993. You've probably never heard of them. Why, what do you play? _Dungeons and Dragons_? <Incredulous hipster laugh>."


----------



## trappedslider

Gradine said:


> I love that you can tell D&D is not just cool but mainstream cool because of the entire subculture that has sprung up around how basic it and its fans are.
> 
> "Myself, I only play postpunk prewave German tradstory games from Spring 1993. You've probably never heard of them. Why, what do you play? _Dungeons and Dragons_? <Incredulous hipster laugh>."



I was playing D&D while playing D&D


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

You can tell a lot about a poster based on what D&D Youtubers they think are good.


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> What if they just got bored somewhere in the third season and never went back to watch any more it?




Or never watched it at all?

In my case, it tells you that I didn't have HBO in 1999, and am not interested in mundane organized crime drama.


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> The ending of _Bly Manor_ was probably my favorite, with _Hill House_ and _Midnight Mass_ tied for second.  We haven't watched _The Midnight Club_ yet, but I think we're starting it next week.




My wife and I have watched the first three, and are now watching _The Midnight Club_.  So far, it stands up pretty well.


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> should put in place a new rule about media adaptations: New thread must be made when discussing differences between source media




I could imagine asking folks to put such comparisons in spoiler blocks, but having multiple threads seems burdensome.


----------



## Deset Gled

Midnight Club is on my list of things to watch soon.  But I'm surprised to hear that people are comparing it Hill House and Midnight Mass.  Fear Street is the direct comparison, no?  90s YA horror novels turned into Netflix limited series?  I read both as a kid.  I used to argue with friends about why Christopher Pike was better than RL Stine.


----------



## Malmuria

Gradine said:


> I love that you can tell D&D is not just cool but mainstream cool because of the entire subculture that has sprung up around how basic it and its fans are.
> 
> "Myself, I only play postpunk prewave German tradstory games from Spring 1993. You've probably never heard of them. Why, what do you play? _Dungeons and Dragons_? <Incredulous hipster laugh>."




Indie ttrpg twitter will bag on 5e players all day and then be like "what, me, gatekeeping?  no..."


----------



## Umbran

Deset Gled said:


> Midnight Club is on my list of things to watch soon.  But I'm surprised to hear that people are comparing it Hill House and Midnight Mass.  Fear Street is the direct comparison, no?  90s YA horror novels turned into Netflix limited series?




Whatever the source material, I don't know if I'd classify the _Midnight Club_ series as YA.  

Netflix rates it as TV-MA, for mature audiences.


----------



## CleverNickName

Lots of hand-wringing about "digital D&D" these days, but I'm not worried.  I was never going to subscribe to digital D&D content anyway.  Never.  Zero interest.  They could make every new release 100% web-based and lock everything behind a subscription paywall, and it wouldn't bother me.  I'll still be over here playing 5E D&D, just like I was planning to do long before all of this hubbub started.

It's interesting to follow, but it's not wrecking my blood pressure.


----------



## trappedslider

So in Cyberpunk 2077, there are the following types of pizza
Locust Pepperoni Pizza
Artichoke'n' Avocado Pizza 
Tofu'd Tuna and Pineapple Pizza


----------



## Cadence

"So Fruska [the Goliath] and Henri [the Gnome] really need war mounts that can be effective. We're thinking donkey and toy-breed dog mix should be just as good for both the march and combat as the Destrier or Mastiff, and much cheaper!"


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


>



Even after successful save, there's a confusion effect:

_"And all the roads that lead you there were winding
And all the lights that light the way are blinding
There are many things that I would like to say to you, but I don't know how"_


----------



## Tutara

Don't forget the vocal subset of casters who think Blur is better.


----------



## payn

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> You can tell a lot about a poster based on what D&D Youtubers they think are good.



None?


----------



## Cadence

(not to this thread)

I will not take that as a challenge, I will not take that as a challenge...


----------



## eyeheartawk

Challenging me to make fun of you is about the least worst thing that's happened to me today.


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Lots of hand-wringing about "digital D&D" these days, but I'm not worried.  I was never going to subscribe to digital D&D content anyway.  Never.  Zero interest.  They could make every new release 100% web-based and lock everything behind a subscription paywall, and it wouldn't bother me.  I'll still be over here playing 5E D&D, just like I was planning to do long before all of this hubbub started.
> 
> It's interesting to follow, but it's not wrecking my blood pressure.




Here's the thing, I'm in the same position as you - but it does not have to effect my gaming directly to be concerning regarding how capital influences the culture.


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> Here's the thing, I'm in the same position as you - but it does not have to effect my gaming directly to be concerning regarding how capital influences the culture.



I think we agree on everything except the intensity: you say "concerning," and I say "interesting."


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> So in Cyberpunk 2077, there are the following types of pizza
> Locust Pepperoni Pizza
> Artichoke'n' Avocado Pizza
> Tofu'd Tuna and Pineapple Pizza



I have literally been carrying slices of those "pizzas" in my pockets for weeks in-game, and they haven't degraded at all. I don't think those count as actual "pizza," probably some sort of incorruptible soy ephemera...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> You liked that one huh? I felt like the entire final season was really weak.




Different finales work in different ways. A fair number of the ones I posted are considered by many to be divisive (Sopranos, The Prisoner, Blake's 7), and most are considered to be, at best, ambiguous.

I loved The Americans because it was true to the show in two ways- the show was never about spying, it was about family. And the show consistently refused to give viewers what they wanted, and instead provided the viewers what was needed instead. 

And that was the series finale. It was the perfect capstone to a show that was loved (and watched) by far too few. .... eh, I guess The Leftovers read that and said, "Hold my beer."

Anyway ...



Spoiler: discussion of finale, spoilers



The show didn't end with a big explosion. Or a giant column of light. Or all the mysteries solved neatly. Or some horrific acts of violence. Or a triumph over a big bad. And it didn't provide the viewer with some pat ending or feeling of catharsis.

It wasn't the Sopranos. The bad guys didn't "pay" for their many crimes. They got away. The scene with Stan ... that final deception? That final need for Stan _wanting to be deceived_? It was an exercise in perfection, but also perfectly executed to hollow out the viewer. The knowledge of what was happening just made the events more painful. 

The meta-knowledge of the viewer that while all this was happening, the Soviet Union was about to crumble just adds to the unease. It's just ... it's how a show should end. What was the show about? It was about a couple. They raised kids. They worked, a lot. They overcame serious obstacles. And at the end, they were done, and the kids were gone, and they only had each other.

Almost like it's a metaphor. Or perhaps it is a simile. Dang it!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Different finales work in different ways. A fair number of the ones I posted are considered by many to be divisive (Sopranos, The Prisoner, Blake's 7), and most are considered to be, at best, ambiguous.
> 
> I loved The Americans because it was true to the show in two ways- the show was never about spying, it was about family. And the show consistently refused to give viewers what they wanted, and instead provided the viewers what was needed instead.
> 
> And that was the series finale. It was the perfect capstone to a show that was loved (and watched) by far too few. .... eh, I guess The Leftovers read that and said, "Hold my beer."
> 
> Anyway ...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: discussion of finale, spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> The show didn't end with a big explosion. Or a giant column of light. Or all the mysteries solved neatly. Or some horrific acts of violence. Or a triumph over a big bad. And it didn't provide the viewer with some pat ending or feeling of catharsis.
> 
> It wasn't the Sopranos. The bad guys didn't "pay" for their many crimes. They got away. The scene with Stan ... that final deception? That final need for Stan _wanting to be deceived_? It was an exercise in perfection, but also perfectly executed to hollow out the viewer. The knowledge of what was happening just made the events more painful.
> 
> The meta-knowledge of the viewer that while all this was happening, the Soviet Union was about to crumble just adds to the unease. It's just ... it's how a show should end. What was the show about? It was about a couple. They raised kids. They worked, a lot. They overcame serious obstacles. And at the end, they were done, and the kids were gone, and they only had each other.
> 
> Almost like it's a metaphor. Or perhaps it is a simile. Dang it!



I hear you. For me, the final season wasnt about what actually happened, it was more of a loss of feeling. It just sort of felt like going through the motions to wrap up. For some reason, I found it hard to immerse into the story. I did love the John Le Carre feel of the series in its entirety.


----------



## el-remmen

I think the final season of Killing Eve felt like a rote wrapping up - which was disappointing since the first season was so good - but sometimes all you really need is a first season, but they keep going anyway.


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> I think the final season of Killing Eve felt like a rote wrapping up - which was disappointing since the first season was so good - but sometimes all you really need is a first season, but they keep going anyway.



I think_ Lost_ was supposed to be 2-3 seasons, but was so popular the network wouldn't let it end. Lindelof seems to excel in these shorter run series. I certainly dont mind them and dont think everything needs as many seasons as possible.


----------



## Gradine

Deset Gled said:


> Midnight Club is on my list of things to watch soon.  But I'm surprised to hear that people are comparing it Hill House and Midnight Mass.  Fear Street is the direct comparison, no?  90s YA horror novels turned into Netflix limited series?  I read both as a kid.  I used to argue with friends about why Christopher Pike was better than RL Stine.



It is very distinctly a Mike Flanagan joint. Feels closer in tone to the _Haunting _series than _Midnight Mass. C_onversations about death, monologues, monologues about death, etc. Ghosts (and ghost stories) as metaphor, _(maybe?) (definitely)_ haunted house, an addiction subplot. All the hallmarks, really. The main difference is in the stories being told by the kids, which are ostensibly "ghost stories" but run the gamut of genres.

BTW "Road to Nowhere" is the best story, Cheri is the best kid, no I will not be taking questions.


----------



## Gradine

Malmuria said:


> Indie ttrpg twitter will bag on 5e players all day and then be like "what, me, gatekeeping?  no..."



If I had a nickel for every tweet that was the equivalent of "they know there are other games, right?" I would be able to purchase Twitter.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I was disillusioned with the final season of *Firefly*. I feel like it should have ended with season 1, that one was perfect!

... Wait, which universe am I in?... Nevemind...


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> I have literally been carrying slices of those "pizzas" in my pockets for weeks in-game, and they haven't degraded at all. I don't think those count as actual "pizza," probably some sort of incorruptible soy ephemera...



Probably with enough preservatives them that if you take a critical hit and are on your way out, Doc Wagon will call and tell you to eat them before they arrive on-scene.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Q. What do you get when you cross a Monk from the Scarlet Brotherhood and a green slime?

A.


Spoiler



A snotsee.

(you have to say it)


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Q. What do you get when you cross a Monk from the Scarlet Brotherhood and a green slime?
> 
> A.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> A snotsee.
> 
> (you have to say it)


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Q. What do you get when you cross a Monk from the Scarlet Brotherhood and a green slime?
> 
> A.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> A snotsee.
> 
> (you have to say it)



Now we know what happens when a bard gets a nat 1 on a vicious mockery... the whole room takes psychic damage.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Q. What do you get when you cross a Monk from the Scarlet Brotherhood and a green slime?
> 
> A.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> A snotsee.
> 
> (you have to say it)


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Now we know what happens when a bard gets a nat 1 on a vicious mockery... the whole room takes psychic damage.


----------



## Bolares

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Well... yeah


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Bolares said:


> Well... yeah




Q. How many grognards does it take to change a lightbulb?

A.


Spoiler



YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW, MAN! YOU WEREN'T THERE!


----------



## Umbran

RealAlHazred said:


> ... probably some sort of incorruptible soy ephemera...




Soy implies that an actual multicellular plant was involved.  That's maybe optimistic?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

The Warlock asks the Cleric, "Hey, how do you make holy water?"

The Cleric responds ...



Spoiler



You boil the hell out of it.


----------



## Gradine

While I'm pitching television programming, I'll also give a shout-out to _The Owl House_, which is scratching that itch that _She-ra_ started.


----------



## trappedslider

I uninstalled Skyrim SE and all 200 mods.....and now I want to redownload it and start modding it again


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The Warlock asks the Cleric, "Hey, how do you make holy water?"
> 
> The Cleric responds ...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> You boil the hell out of it.



Please make it stop


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> Please make it stop




Well, given the thread topic, I was going to make a pizza joke ...



Spoiler



...but it was too cheesy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> While I'm pitching television programming, I'll also give a shout-out to _The Owl House_, which is scratching that itch that _She-ra_ started.




No. Nothing ..... _NOTHING _scratches that itch.

And nobody puts Catra in the corner.


----------



## el-remmen

[comment redacted]


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> No. Nothing ..... _NOTHING _scratches that itch.
> 
> And nobody puts Catra in the corner.



If you have not watched Owl House you, in particular, should be watching Owl House.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


>



Why just the humans?  Won't someone think of the halflings!?!?!?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Why just the humans?  Won't someone think of the halflings!?!?!?




OKAY!

A Paladin asked a Kender if he could borrow 10 gold pieces. 

The kender replied….



Spoiler



_Sorry, I’m a little short. _


----------



## Gradine

Cadence said:


> Why just the humans?  Won't someone think of the halflings!?!?!?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Gradine said:


> If you have not watched Owl House you, in particular, should be watching Owl House.



I second this. Easily one of the best cartoons to come out of the last couple of years. It's disappointing that its third season was shortened so much, though.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, given the thread topic, I was going to make a pizza joke ...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...but it was too cheesy.



My son approved of all of your jokes, but knew this one. 

None of that feels like a good thing except seeing this one coming.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The Warlock asks the Cleric, "Hey, how do you make holy water?"
> 
> The Cleric responds ...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> You boil the hell out of it.




 A Catholic priest told me that joke a long time ago...


----------



## CleverNickName

Some of these jokes are so old, they still use THAC0.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Some of these jokes are so old, they still use THAC0.



My jokes are so old, Leonardo DiCaprio lost interest in them!

... I'll show myself out.


----------



## Gradine

RealAlHazred said:


> My jokes are so old, Leonardo DiCaprio lost interest in them!
> 
> ... I'll show myself out.


----------



## Cadence

"Have you seriously never been in a thread with them before? I don't know how you could possibly be surprised by what they posted if you had."


----------



## Hussar

Thanks a bunch for the heads up about Owl House.  I'm always looking for some fun cartoon to watch with my students from time to time for a break in class.  It's hard finding stuff that is just hte right level for them.  Great.


----------



## Hussar

Well, that was kinda disappointing.  On a whim I noticed that some folks have "first post" under their names and I wondered what my first post on En World actually was.  Now, since there have been a couple of crashes on the site, my actual, true first post has been lost to time. But, doing a bit of clicking through (man, I have spent far too much time posting on this site over the years), it's a bit disappointing that my very first post on record on the site is this: How many cohorts?



> Well, according to the 3.5 SRD:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LEADERSHIP [GENERAL]
> Prerequisite: Character level 6th.
> 
> Benefits: Having this feat enables the character to attract loyal companions and devoted followers, subordinates who assist her. See the table below for what sort of cohort and how many followers the character can recruit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right off in the table it shows one cohort of x level. It does mention later that lost cohorts and followers are replaced over time.
Click to expand...



Not exactly pithy is it?


----------



## el-remmen

> The D&D I want is 2E power level and class feel with 5E mechanics. Take kits, cut the chafe, make them subclasses, and keep them basically balanced.




Seriously considering doing the work of making this as a side project.


----------



## CleverNickName

Now that you mention it, I wonder what it would be like to convert 2E Kits into 5E Backgrounds.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> Not exactly pithy is it?




First post-



> The Thief first appeared in Great Plains Game Players Newsletter #9 prior to OD&D (Greyhawk). It used percentiles in both.
> 
> It was "borrowed" from Gary Switzer (Aero Games). The original thief used an MU chassis and had thief abilities that could be invoked like spells.




Let's see. 

1. Gratuitous history? Check.
2. Is Greyhawk in there in some fashion? Check.

Seems on-brand. If only it was a thread-starter of gratuitous length.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Now that you mention it, I wonder what it would be like to convert 2E Kits into 5E Backgrounds.




You know, when you take one of those linoleum knives, with the double edge, and you spread your toes apart and just start sawing, back and forth and back and forth in between your toes?

That's what it would be like.


----------



## AnotherGuy

CleverNickName said:


> Now that you mention it, I wonder what it would be like to convert 2E Kits into 5E Backgrounds.





el-remmen said:


> Seriously considering doing the work of making this as a side project.




Here is something

*EDIT:* Where is @I'm A Banana these days? He was great for the forum as a mod and a poster.
I see you have to request access for some of the guides. I'm going to take a look on my hard drives this weekend - I'm pretty sure I downloaded those back in the day.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You know, when you take one of those linoleum knives, with the double edge, and you spread your toes apart and just start sawing, back and forth and back and forth in between your toes?
> 
> That's what it would be like.


----------



## Cadence

First post that shows up in search, ten years + almost two weeks ago:









						Fudging is not your friend
					

Yes, but how do you really know?  Even with dice rolled out in the open it is not like the players are always double checking the DM to make sure he's not lying.  They are looking at their character sheet, reading a spell, deciding what they are going to do next, or just sitting on the other...




					www.enworld.org
				




And I'm still about where I was in terms of trying to do better.  A bunch of names I haven't seen in a while in there, although @Hussar shows up on the next page.


----------



## CleverNickName

My first post was WAAAAY back in March of 2007.
15 years and 10,733 posts ago.


CleverNickName said:


> Crothian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would one go about making anything that boosts stats an addiction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a previous campaign, I placed a cursed magic item for the party to find.  It was a morningstar +1, which gave its wielder the ability to rage once per day as a 1st level barbarian.  But this unnatural rage was very addictive; each time the character used it, he had to make a DC 15 Fortitude save when the rage ended.  When the save throw eventually failed, the character became cursed to always want to use that particular weapon in battle: he became nonproficient in all other weapons except the morningstar.
> 
> The curse was simple enough to remove, but every time he used the rage ability he ran the risk of becoming addicted to the magical endorphins created by the weapon.  It became one of the most memorable weapons in the campaign, and one of the players' favorites (he ended up enchanting it all the way to +4).
> 
> Not sure if this was what you were looking for, but I thought I'd chime in.
Click to expand...


----------



## payn

How y'all finding your first posts?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> How y'all finding your first posts?




I looked up my join date in my profile, and then went to advanced search to find one near that date with my user name.  I didn't see if there was just a button one could push to get to it, but I would not be surprised to find out there was.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I looked up my join date in my profile, and then went to advanced search to find one near that date with my user name.  I didn't see if there was just a button one could push to get to it, but I would not be surprised to find out there was.




Nope, there isn't (that I know of). I did the same thing. Make sure you also select to sort by date, instead of by relevance.


----------



## Cadence

I have no recollection of an admin/mod named Plane Sailing that shows up in my first thread, even though their profile shows active through May of this year.   Did they change names?


----------



## el-remmen

CleverNickName said:


> Now that you mention it, I wonder what it would be like to convert 2E Kits into 5E Backgrounds.




Yeah, I think that you're right that some would make better backgrounds and others kits. I am actually playing with the idea of only four classes at first level: priest, rogue, fighter, wizard. You choose your first subclass at 2nd (specialty, thief/bard, paladin/ranger/fighter, school specialist) and then your kit at 3rd - those who want to start play knowing what they are can run a game starting at 2nd or 3rd - for those who like to play to find out, start at 1st.


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> I have no recollection of an admin/mod named Plane Sailing that shows up in my first thread, even though their profile shows active through May of this year.   Did they change names?




Nope, that's Alex. He lives in the UK, been around since the very early days, and I've gamed with him a couple of times at Kevin Kulp's house.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Hussar said:


> Not exactly pithy is it?



I'm also pretty sure I did a bunch of posts in the 3.0/3.5 days that seem to be lost to time and the Internet. My witty, sparkling first-post-of-record [EDIT - actually is] :


> _The DEMON organization has been around through previous editions of the Hero System but this is the first definitive treatment that the popular mystics have received._
> 
> I'd have to respectfully disagree with the author, here. DEMON was the subject of Organization Book 2 for old Champions, _Primus and DEMON_; while somewhat anemic by modern standards, the Organization Books were considered to be "definitive treatments." The organization also received a decent writeup in the 4th edition supplement _Classic Organizations,_ again a "definitive treatment." This is the latest such definitive treatment, and undoubtedly the best.



So, totally unrelated to D&D.


----------



## overgeeked

My first post was about doing D&D 4E combat as a skill challenge.


----------



## el-remmen

My first post is from at least two iterations of the forums ago in 1999 or very early 2000.


----------



## Gradine

My first post was in a thread from 2007 titled "The 4e Mystery Race is going to be..."


Gradine said:


> The note about organizing into an Empire seems to exclude most if not all of the Eberron races- the whole point of Changelings is that they don't form collective groups.
> 
> There's a lot of talk about Drow and the half-dozen other Elf-ish types, but what of their darker Dwarven cousins? I buy Derro or Duerger fleets as much as I do Orc.
> 
> My money's still on Hobgoblin, but I'd prefer an evil Dwarf to _another_ Elf



Let's see.

1. Early naïve excitement over 4e? Check.
2. Is Eberron in there in some fashion? Check.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


> My first post was in a thread from 2007 titled "The 4e Mystery Race is going to be..."
> 
> Let's see.
> 
> 1. Early naïve excitement over 4e? Check.
> 2. Is Eberron in there in some fashion? Check.



FWIW, later writers didn't get the memo about the whole point of Changelings, and in *Races of Eberron* had Changeling homelands, where nobody changed shape...


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> I have no recollection of an admin/mod named Plane Sailing that shows up in my first thread, even though their profile shows active through May of this year.   Did they change names?




Nope.  He's simply gone off to other things. 









						Plane Sailing Games Limited
					

Tabletop Role Playing Games




					planesailinggames.com


----------



## CleverNickName

The _shield _spell is broken?  First time I've heard of that.
And _goodberry _somehow "ruins the exploration tier" of the game?  News to me.
The Healer feat makes low-level healing "too easy," apparently, even though nobody has ever selected it even once.

I swear I'm playing 5E D&D, but sometimes I wonder if I'm playing an entirely different game.


----------



## trappedslider

So glad i stay out of the D&D section


----------



## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> I swear I'm playing 5E D&D, but sometimes I wonder if I'm playing an entirely different game.




Well, maybe you are.

There's a thing we don't do when we hear things like that - find out what the speaker actually likes in a RPG, in detail, instead of in high level jargon.


----------



## Malmuria

High level 5e combat lasts longer than Liz truss did


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> I looked up my join date in my profile, and then went to advanced search to find one near that date with my user name.  I didn't see if there was just a button one could push to get to it, but I would not be surprised to find out there was.



Interesting. I’ve got posts dated over a week older than my join date.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Interesting. I’ve got posts dated over a week older than my join date.




There was a database crash of the boards back in 2002.  Anything with a date in early 2002 may be wonky as a result of recreating accounts and such.


----------



## trappedslider

We now know when to expect 'Good Omens' season 2 to release on Amazon Prime Video
					

Here's when it's coming down from heaven.




					wegotthiscovered.com


----------



## eyeheartawk

Me reading that Lanassa thread.


----------



## Zardnaar

NZ pizza strokes back. Suffer heathens. 



 Burger pizza. Beef, cheese, onion, gherkin, sauce. 



 Morning after. Hash browns, bacon, what're, and hollandaise sauce. 

 The morning after was the nicest one. Company here called Hells pizza.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Zardnaar said:


> . Company here called Hells pizza.




_Truth in advertising. 



_


----------



## el-remmen

eyeheartawk said:


> that Lanassa thread.



Do I even want to ask?


----------



## Umbran

el-remmen said:


> Do I even want to ask?




My guess is that reading that thread will not make your life more enjoyable.


----------



## el-remmen

Umbran said:


> My guess is that reading that thread will not make your life more enjoyable.




Oh for sure!  But since I didn't see a thread with that name or by a person with that handle I wasn't sure what I should be avoiding. Maybe it is in a sub-forum I don't visit often?


----------



## eyeheartawk

el-remmen said:


> Oh for sure!  But since I didn't see a thread with that name or by a person with that handle I wasn't sure what I should be avoiding. Maybe it is in a sub-forum I don't visit often?



It's the Nu-TSR thread.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## el-remmen

eyeheartawk said:


> It's the Nu-TSR thread.




OOOOOH.


----------



## Ryujin

Pot, meet kettle. Jeez.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I've been bored today.


----------



## Cadence

Just stumbled across this again for the first time in quite a while...


----------



## RealAlHazred

I mean, stealing the page header makes me think that's a gnome...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Huh... Trying to find my first post turns up something from Oct 16th, 2016, but I've been a member since 2013...

Did I really spend three years not posting anything? I know I wasn't really active on these forums until WotC crashed theirs, but damn...  

EDIT: Okay, I'm seeing Homicidal_Squirrel quote a post of mine on February 18th, 2014 in the _Hive_ thread, but I can't see the actual post of mine that he quoted... Wassupwidat?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mad_Jack said:


> EDIT: Okay, I'm seeing Homicidal_Squirrel quote a post of mine on February 18th, 2014 in the _Hive_ thread, but I can't see the actual post of mine that he quoted... Wassupwidat?



There have been some forum crashes and software updates over the years, and not all posts have been saved, sadly. I weep over my past brilliance lost to the Bit Abyss!


----------



## Mad_Jack

RealAlHazred said:


> There have been some forum crashes and software updates over the years, and not all posts have been saved, sadly. I weep over my past brilliance lost to the Bit Abyss!




 Oh, right - I remember now... I lost all my early posts sometime around 2016. Duh. I are smart.


----------



## Gradine

Lol


----------



## Cadence

If you can't imagine something at least incrementally constructive being said in response to your quote-reply, maybe just try shutting up instead.


----------



## Hussar

Wow.

Just wow.

I get having preferences.  That's groovy.  Everyone has preferences.  

But _that_'s your line in the sand?  

Putting cheese on pizza is a line too far?


----------



## overgeeked

“I’m the Dungeon Master. Twisted Dungeon Master...”


----------



## Mad_Jack

Some days I hate people...

Apparently, here in CT on Friday throughout the course of the day the local police received _*18 *_different "SWAT-ing" calls about active shooters at local area schools...

What kind of ... ..... ...... ...... ..... does that sort of thing????


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> Some days I hate people...
> 
> Apparently, here in CT on Friday throughout the course of the day the local police received _*18 *_different "SWAT-ing" calls about active shooters at local area schools...
> 
> What kind of ... ..... ...... ...... ..... does that sort of thing????



Sounds like some complete ******* Alex Jones supporter is getting ready for the 10th anniversary. Find. Prosecute. Throw away the key.


----------



## darjr

Gameholecon gives me figgy piggy 

Bacon and wine poached figs


----------



## Zardnaar

New flavour of chips. Maple bacon, salt and vinegar, sour cream and chives.


----------



## payn

Zardnaar said:


> View attachment 264552
> 
> New flavour of chips. Maple bacon, salt and vinegar, sour cream and chives.


----------



## Cadence

You apparently haven't experienced this before and so might be a bit confused.  Their actual objection is based on the fact that it is doubtful that your favorite does any of the good stuff at all.  So there certainly are no adjectives with a positive connotation that they will allow to describe yours but not theirs.


----------



## trappedslider

Do you need a silencer if you are going to shoot a mime?


----------



## billd91

trappedslider said:


> Do you need a silencer if you are going to shoot a mime?



Well, the mime is already silenced.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Look, I'm just going to have to say it, if a woman absolutely destroys a stack of pizzas, she is a too much of a menace to society to ever be allowed out of prison. If a man does it, it's Tuesday.

If you can't see that, I don't know what I can do to convince you of this obvious truth.


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


> Look, I'm just going to have to say it, if a woman absolutely destroys a stack of pizzas,



but if there was pineapple on the pizza, she was clearly saving the world.


----------



## trappedslider

Only an idiot would uninstall skyrim and close to 200 mods, only to reinstall the game and starting modding



Spoiler



It's me, I'm the idiot


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> Only an idiot would uninstall skyrim and close to 200 mods, only to reinstall the game and starting modding
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It's me, I'm the idiot



I play on console (PS4), so if a game doesn't work well on vanilla, I won't start it. Skyrim is the one exception, as it was the first console game I played. Somewhere I think I still have a save with half a dozen glitched quests I can't finish.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> Look, I'm just going to have to say it, if a woman absolutely destroys a stack of pizzas, she is a too much of a menace to society to ever be allowed out of prison. If a man does it, it's Tuesday.
> 
> If you can't see that, I don't know what I can do to convince you of this obvious truth.




There are so many time the following happens:

Achilles_: You know, I was really enjoying that pizza. It smelled great. The crust ... perfection. The cheese was so good. The sauce was an exercise in tomato-y yumminess. But on my second bite ... I tasted ... pineapple. It totally ruined the pizza for me. _

Xeno: _But you ordered a Hawaiian pizza? Hawaiian pizzas have pineapple on them._

Achilles: _Hey! I'm not trying to get into an argument about the point of the Hawaiian pizza. I'm just telling you why the pizza sucked. _


----------



## Cadence

I probably should not have ordered dessert.  But even though I don't think I can move now, I have a new respect for Bread Pudding.

From "The Pig" in Washington DC with banana cream filling, walnuts, butter scotch, and creme anglaise.

I have no regrets.


----------



## Mad_Jack

I wonder if Scott Adams reads the forums here...

 Dilbert


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> I wonder if Scott Adams reads the forums here...
> 
> Dilbert



Na, probably over at Parler.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Na, probably over at Parler.




.....I spent a long time debating the appropriate emoji-reaction for that.


----------



## Gradine

Mad_Jack said:


> I wonder if Scott Adams reads the forums here...



Dear god I hope not


----------



## Gradine

Is it possible to frame this sentence? Like permanently place it underneath the top menu?

"If they don't deserve your respect, they also don't deserve a response from you."


----------



## CleverNickName

Go on, admit it: you're complaining about something you have never tried--something you _would never_ try.  You already decided long ago, without using a single tooth or tastebud, that you weren't going to like pineapple on pizza, no matter what.

And that's fine. You can (and should!) order whatever you like.  But what I want to know is: why do you keep yelling about pineapple on _other people's pizzas?  _Everybody can tell you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Go on, admit it: you're complaining about something you have never tried--something you _would never_ try.  You already decided long ago, without using a single tooth or tastebud, that you weren't going to like pineapple on pizza, no matter what.
> 
> And that's fine., you can order whatever you like.  But what I want to know is: why do you keep yelling about pineapple on _other people's pizza?_



The neat thing about a good metaphor is that it can be read multiple ways.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Go on, admit it: you're complaining about something you have never tried--something you _would never_ try.  You already decided long ago, without using a single tooth or tastebud, that you weren't going to like pineapple on pizza, no matter what.
> 
> And that's fine., you can order whatever you like.  But what I want to know is: why do you keep yelling about pineapple on _other people's pizza?_



No, see, I'm just saying eating pineapple on pizza is different when a woman does it!


----------



## CleverNickName

RealAlHazred said:


> No, see, I'm just saying eating pineapple on pizza is different when a woman does it!


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


>



Look at the pathos! Look at the suffering of the Big Green Man! That's real character development!


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Why do people think they own the pizzeria just because they buy pizza there? And why can't that pizzeria serve the pizza I like and the pizza you like? Me getting pizza doesn't somehow equal you not getting pizza.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Me getting pizza doesn't somehow equal you not getting pizza


----------



## billd91

CleverNickName said:


> And that's fine. You can (and should!) order whatever you like. But what I want to know is: why do you keep yelling about pineapple on _other people's pizzas? _Everybody can tell you don't know what you're talking about.



There are *SO* many things you can ask that about as political culture wars rage across the country.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Eberron is awesome. 

Does this count? I say it a lot, but I also try to not say it as much as I want to. So technically this is a "I didn't comment in another thread", right?


----------



## RealAlHazred

billd91 said:


> There are *SO* many things you can ask that about as political culture wars rage across the country.



See, _@CleverNickName talking about pizza_ is virtue signaling, and an opening salvo in a culture war where they wish to tear down everything that makes this country* great.

But when *I* do it, it's nuanced commentary about the nature of Reality, and really genius insight into the Grand Scheme of Things™.

* For all possible values of "country."


----------



## payn

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Eberron is awesome.
> 
> Does this count? I say it a lot, but I also try to not say it as much as I want to. So technically this is a "I didn't comment in another thread", right?



I was never anti-Eberron, but I certainly lacked an interest in it for a long time. Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) actually brought me around to really liking the setting.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

payn said:


> I was never anti-Eberron, but I certainly lacked an interest in it for a long time. Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) actually brought me around to really liking the setting.



Any setting that can actually make me care about Halflings is amazing, IMO (Dark Sun is the only other one).


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> Go on, admit it: you're complaining about something you have never tried--something you _would never_ try.  You already decided long ago, without using a single tooth or tastebud, that you weren't going to like pineapple on pizza, no matter what.
> 
> And that's fine. You can (and should!) order whatever you like.  But what I want to know is: why do you keep yelling about pineapple on _other people's pizzas?  _Everybody can tell you don't know what you're talking about.



My favorite variation is the folks who bust out back-of-napkin/serviette math to _prove_...prove I say...that they're right and know more and blah blah blah. Yeah, I get that you're trying to _prove_ that you've _eaten more pizza_ than it's possible to physically _eat_ in the time since the invention of _pizza_, but you're still wrong.


----------



## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> My favorite variation is the folks who bust out back-of-napkin/serviette math to _prove_...prove I say...that they're right and know more and blah blah blah. Yeah, I get that you're trying to _prove_ that you've _eaten more pizza_ than it's possible to physically _eat_ in the time since the invention of _pizza_, but you're still wrong.








You mean, this guy?

EDIT: Also, "... then we be friends." Sir, I do not think that offer is as amazing as you think it is.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I think a big part of the disconnect for some people is that, the way I and many other males in my generation were raised, emotional costs were not considered as meaningful as physical costs. For example, the athlete who could win a footrace was lauded more than a mature PhD student who had struggled with pessimism and despair and poor self-image for decades before completing their degree. That second one was a "struggle," sure, but it wasn't like there was a REAL cost involved. Anybody could do it. The REAL hero smashes the bad guys. In the FACE! With his FIST! YEAH!

I'm really hopeful that the public shaming of toxic masculinity that I've seen online is just the beginning of a sea-change in attitudes. But, hey, I'm a pessimist.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

The longer I think about it, I see more and more similarities between Wildemount/Exandria and Dragonlance. It has a giant religious war with two sides, one of them the "good humanoids" and the other the "evil monstrous humanoids" (but subverted/inverted, as is common with modern versions of tropes). The world is still recovering from a huge catastrophe from several hundreds of years ago (the Cataclysm for Dragonlance, the Calamity for Exandria) which was caused by a conflict between the good and evil gods and the hubris of mankind. There are lost magical artifacts left over from before this world-shaking catastrophe. Arkhan the Cruel was inspired by the Dragonlance novels, according to Joe Manganiello.

In a way, Wildemount is kinda the modern spiritual successor of Dragonlance.


----------



## CleverNickName

Oh I KNOW he wasn't dissing on Stardew Valley.  That game rules, and my ADHD brain will fight anyone who says otherwise.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Oh I KNOW he wasn't dissing on Stardew Valley.  That game rules, and my ADHD brain will fight anyone who says otherwise.



I mean, it has fighting so I _suppose _it counts as a game...


----------



## CleverNickName

RealAlHazred said:


> I mean, it has fighting so I _suppose _it counts as a game...



DudeBro:  "What's so great about Stardew Valley anyway?  There's not even a gun!  How am I supposed to live out my male power fantasy without an assortment of tanks and rifles?"

Me:  "Dude, my male power fantasy is being able to own a home in a walkable neighborhood."


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> DudeBro:  "What's so great about Stardew Valley anyway?  There's not even a gun!  How am I supposed to live out my male power fantasy without an assortment of tanks and rifles?"
> 
> Me:  "Dude, my male power fantasy is being able to own a home in a walkable neighborhood."


----------



## Ryujin

I'm really feeling a food related quote, right now, from "Bulletproof Monk":

"See, the thing is, life doesn't always work out according to plan. So be happy with what you've got, because you can always get a hot dog." - Kar


----------



## overgeeked

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> The longer I think about it, I see more and more similarities between Wildemount/Exandria and Dragonlance. It has a giant religious war with two sides, one of them the "good humanoids" and the other the "evil monstrous humanoids" (but subverted/inverted, as is common with modern versions of tropes). The world is still recovering from a huge catastrophe from several hundreds of years ago (the Cataclysm for Dragonlance, the Calamity for Exandria) which was caused by a conflict between the good and evil gods and the hubris of mankind. There are lost magical artifacts left over from before this world-shaking catastrophe. Arkhan the Cruel was inspired by the Dragonlance novels, according to Joe Manganiello.
> 
> In a way, Wildemount is kinda the modern spiritual successor of Dragonlance.



I get way more JRPG vibes off Critical Role than anything else.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

overgeeked said:


> I get way more JRPG vibes off Critical Role than anything else.



I didn't say Critical Role. The campaigns are definitely way different in theme from the setting. The setting is pretty serious. The campaigns, not so much.


----------



## overgeeked

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> I didn't say Critical Role. The campaigns are definitely way different in theme from the setting. The setting is pretty serious. The campaigns, not so much.



The campaigns define the setting, so…


----------



## Cadence

Pizza box technology.  Make a bib out of the lid.


----------



## trappedslider

Well, that thread basically became A no true Scotsman argument.


----------



## Umbran

eyeheartawk said:


> View attachment 264702




*Mod Note:*
Someone thought that getting into politics would be allowed in here?

Someone was wrong.

Do not continue in this line, folks.  Thanks.


----------



## billd91

That was weird.


----------



## trappedslider

billd91 said:


> That was weird.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

trappedslider said:


> Well, that thread basically became A no true Scotsman argument.



"All fans of X agree with me!"

"I'm a fan of X, and I don't agree with you."

"Then you're not _really _a fan of X!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Achilles: Hey, Zeno, I got a great idea!

Zeno: ......

Achilles: ZENO! ZENO! ZENO!

Zeno: _sigh_ What?

Achilles: So, I like pineapple pizza, but the friends I hang out with only like borin' ol' cheese pizzas. 

Zeno: Yeah. You've told me. 

Achilles: So here's my brilliant idea .... what we're going to do, is force all the pizzerias to put pineapple on their cheese pizzas.

Zeno: uhhh....... wait. Why not just try and convince your friends to have pineapple pizza with you?

Achilles: Ha! That's funny! They're too stupid to enjoy pineapple pizza. No, the only way to get them to eat pineapple pizza with me is to make sure that when they order their pizzas, pineapple is put on it. That way, they'll get it! 

Zeno: This is why I don't answer your texts, Achilles.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Zeno: This is why I don't answer your texts, Achilles.



I would have more thoroughly enjoyed the 2004 film Troy if it was set in the then present time. Like, Zeno and Achilles complaining about Brian Cox on their Sidekicks.


----------



## darjr

“Not a true gamer”

Huh? Where have I heard that before?


----------



## trappedslider

Not a true Tolkien show


----------



## Mad_Jack

Gradine said:


> Is it possible to frame this sentence? Like permanently place it underneath the top menu?
> 
> "If they don't deserve your respect, they also don't deserve a response from you."




 I applaud and fully support this statement. Even if it is less fun than posting stuff like this...










Cadence said:


> Pizza box technology.  Make a bib out of the lid.




 When I used to do Rocky Horror, sometimes I'd play the Criminologist. For the scene where he's showing pictures from the book, I cut three of the side walls off of a pizza box, painted them white and taped them to a black three-ring binder painted like the cover of the book - making a hollow book from which I'd pull out various gag props while reciting my lines. I once opened the book, took out a piece of pizza and ate it while doing the scene....


----------



## prabe

What fresh hell is this?


----------



## billd91

When something is Peak Gamer, that's not really a compliment.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> When something is Peak Gamer, that's not really a compliment.




It is strange how Peak Gamer and Nadir Gamer are right next to each other.


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> It is strange how Peak Gamer and Nadir Gamer are right next to each other.



Horseshoe-shaped curves ...


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> Horseshoe-shaped curves ...



Like the crab?! Yea, carcinisation, eventually it gets us all.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> It is strange how Peak Gamer and Nadir Gamer are right next to each other.




Is Nadir Gamer the creepy uncle that sends all-caps emails to Nada Surf?


----------



## Ryujin

'Round and 'round we go with nothing but the original arguments, slightly reworded. Not worth watching anymore. First time I've ever hit "unwatch." Maybe I should do it more?


----------



## payn

National public radio day! Love my local station 89.3 The Current. Check it out stream is free anywhere.


----------



## CleverNickName

I see your pizza box bib, and raise you a pizza box pizza:


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> I see your pizza box bib, and raise you a pizza box pizza:
> View attachment 264846



The top of that pizza box pizza better have toppings.


----------



## payn

overgeeked said:


> The top of that pizza box pizza better have toppings.



Its pineapple... /backs away slowly


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> The top of that pizza box pizza better have toppings.



I like to think it's absolutely _buried _underneath a pile of ham, pineapple, and cheese.


----------



## overgeeked

Sorry, but if you love the Kentucky Derby and hate NASCAR, you’re racist.

ETA: It’s a pun. Settle down.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> Sorry, but if you love the Kentucky Derby and hate NASCAR, you’re racist.




What if you want to run a NASCAR race and the Kentucky Derby at the same time and on the same track?


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What if you want to run a NASCAR race and the Kentucky Derby at the same time and on the same track?



Sounds wide awake.


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What if you want to run a NASCAR race and the Kentucky Derby at the same time and on the same track?



That’s great. You’re not showing a preference to either race, thus avoid being racist.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> That’s great. You’re not showing a preference to either race, thus avoid being racist.




I mean, the horses might say, "Neigh."


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> 'Round and 'round we go with nothing but the original arguments, slightly reworded. Not worth watching anymore. First time I've ever hit "unwatch." Maybe I should do it more?



Rings of power?


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> Rings of power?



The posters delved too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness of the forums... shadow and flame(wars).


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


> The posters delved too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness of the forums... shadow and flame(wars).


----------



## Galandris

trappedslider said:


>




It's been retconned. The posters in fact do it out of love for the elves.



BTW, can someone explain what "culture war" means? I've seen this term used quite a lot on this board recently, but I have no idea what it might refer.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Galandris said:


> BTW, can someone explain what "culture war" means? I've seen this term used quite a lot on this board recently, but I have no idea what it might refer.




1. You don’t want to know.

2. Wikipedia is a good resource. Most people are using it in the US-centric meaning.









						Culture war - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## billd91

Galandris said:


> BTW, can someone explain what "culture war" means? I've seen this term used quite a lot on this board recently, but I have no idea what it might refer.



It's basically the fight over social issues in a society, and particularly, it's politicization.

I see I have been ninja-ed.


----------



## Galandris

Thanks both of you. I had the idea that it wasn't refering to the underground diffusion of Western music steadily undermining the Eastern Block in the 80's but I can see now how it can be used.


----------



## darjr

Well? Isn’t that well water doing well?


----------



## Alzrius

RealAlHazred said:


> The posters delved too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness of the forums... shadow and flame(wars).



And here I thought it would be limited to the occasional stalagmen uprising.


----------



## trappedslider

Apple Confirms It Will Add USB-C Ports to iPhones After New EU Law - IGN
					

Apple says it will comply with the new EU law mandating mobile devices use USB-C charging cables, but doesn't seem happy about it, complaining that it will result in waste as users throw out their old Lightning cables.




					www.ign.com
				




i love how Apple is crying victim


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Apple Confirms It Will Add USB-C Ports to iPhones After New EU Law - IGN
> 
> 
> Apple says it will comply with the new EU law mandating mobile devices use USB-C charging cables, but doesn't seem happy about it, complaining that it will result in waste as users throw out their old Lightning cables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ign.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i love how Apple is crying victim



It's a good look for them.


----------



## el-remmen

Oyola's Law: When someone posts that "No one ever thought or ever said they wanted X in their D&D game, someone will soon come along to say that they have. Often, it is me."


----------



## CleverNickName

Alright.  I know that this is going to be controversial, and so I'm going to wrap it in Spoiler tags to protect the vibe of the room.  But I have to get this off my chest.


Spoiler: The






Spoiler: One






Spoiler: True






Spoiler: Pizza



*CleverNickName's Ultimate Game Night Pizza*

THE SAUCE

2 tablespoons olive oil
6 cloves of garlic, crushed
1 medium yellow onion, grated
1/3 cup red wine (I use chianti)
2-14 oz. cans of pureed tomatoes
1-6 oz. can of tomato paste
2 tablespoons granulated sugar
2 whole links of your favorite spicy Italian sausage (raw but not frozen)
1 sprig of fresh basil
Salt to taste

Heat the olive oil in a heavy Dutch oven.  Add the garlic and onion, and cook until translucent, about 5 minutes.
Deglaze with the wine.
Add the tomatoes and tomato paste.  Return to a boil.
Add the sausage links, cover, and cook for 30 minutes.
Remove the sausage and add the basil.   Refrigerate the (now fully-cooked) sausage until ready to use.
Cook over low heat for 1-3 hours, or until it is as thick as you like it.
Remove the basil, add salt to taste.

THE CRUST

225g sourdough starter
160g lukewarm water
300g cups all purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon active dry yeast

Combine all ingredients in a stand mixer with a dough hook.
Knead for 10 minutes or until the dough clears the sides of the mixer bowl.
Transfer the dough to an oiled bowl, cover tightly with oiled cling film.
Allow to rise until doubled in size, about 2 or 3 hours.
Shape the dough into a flat disc, then carefully spread it with your knuckles.  If you're brave, hand-toss it and use centrifugal force to shape the dough into a 15" circle.  Then transfer it carefully to a pizza peel that has been well-coated in cornmeal.
If you're _*me*_, press it out into a rough oval shape onto an oiled sheet of parchment paper, about 18" long and 12" wide.  If it keeps stretching back, let it relax for 5-10 minutes and try again.  Then transfer it carefully to a pizza peel that has been well-coated in cornmeal.
Cover and let rise until doubled in thickness; about 30-45 minutes.
While the dough is rising, put your pizza stone into the oven and preheat it to 500°F
THE TOPPINGS
Combine 1 cup of freshly-grated Parmesan cheese with 1 cup of freshly-grated part-skim mozzarella cheese.  Set aside.
Take the two cooked sausages out of the refrigerator.  Remove the sausage casing, and slice/chop/crumble it as desired.  Set aside.
Thinly slice 3-5 of your favorite fresh mushrooms (more or less to taste).  Set aside.

ASSEMBLY AND COOKING

Coat the dough evenly with sauce.  Get as close to the edge as you can without going over.
Add half of the cheese mixture.
Add the meat.
Add the mushrooms.
Add the rest of the cheese.
Slide the pizza off of the pizza peel directly onto the pizza stone.  Cook for 8-12 minutes or until the dough is blistered and the cheese is browned.  Remove and slice.  Serve it with extra Parmesan cheese, extra olive oil, and extra sauce (for dipping.)

Sorry if you were expecting pineapple, but that's a different recipe.


Spoiler: How to Put Pineapple on Pizza




Use fresh pineapple, not canned (this is just good advice for all toppings really.)
Pineapple needs salt...not a lot, but you'll know if it's missing.  That's why it's most often paired with very salty toppings like ham or bacon.  If you're not using salty toppings, add some flaky finishing salt.
Grill or roast the pineapple until it's tender, _then _chop it into bits, _then _put it on the pizza.  Pineapple is mostly water, and it's very dense, so it has a longer cook time than other toppings.  Give it a head-start.  (You pre-cook sausage and meatballs for the same reason.)


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> Then transfer it carefully to a pizza peel that has been well-coated in cornmeal.



Why the cornmeal?


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> Why the cornmeal?



It's a trick I learned from working in a pizzeria.  It keeps the dough from sticking to the pizza peel, so that it slides easily.  Works kinda like ball bearings.  Regular flour will hydrate too quickly and cause the dough to fuse to the peel, and oil is too messy/doesn't slide well enough.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cornmeal also provides a bit of pleasing grit and flavor. If that sounds weird, think about wood-fired pizzas you've enjoyed: Cornmeal seems to be very popular with those pizzerias.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Galandris said:


> BTW, can someone explain what "culture war" means? I've seen this term used quite a lot on this board recently, but I have no idea what it might refer.



Any time you wonder "how can X possibly be a left/right political issue," it's because X is yet another thing that's been politicized in the culture war. (There are correct and incorrect pillows to sleep on, vacations to take, fast food restaurants to frequent, comic books to enjoy, etc., etc., etc.)


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> It's a trick I learned from working in a pizzeria.  It keeps the dough from sticking to the pizza peel, so that it slides easily.  Works kinda like ball bearings.  Regular flour will hydrate too quickly and cause the dough to fuse to the peel, and oil is too messy/doesn't slide well enough.


----------



## Gradine

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Cornmeal also provides a bit of pleasing grit and flavor.



"Pleasing grit" is one of the worst things I've ever read. Just grease your pans properly, pizza nerds!


Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Any time you wonder "how can X possibly be a left/right political issue," it's because X is yet another thing that's been politicized in the culture war. (There are correct and incorrect pillows to sleep on, vacations to take, fast food restaurants to frequent, comic books to enjoy, etc., etc., etc.)



In my formative adulthood the proxy war dejour in my country was over lightbulbs. But that was less about putting money into the hands of the wrong/'wrong' people, and more about pettiness and abject stupidity.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

Gradine said:


> But that was less about putting money into the hands of the wrong/'wrong' people, and more about pettiness and abject stupidity.



Coincidentally, so is the culture war.


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## billd91

Gradine said:


> "Pleasing grit" is one of the worst things I've ever read. Just grease your pans properly, pizza nerds!



There are people who do this and the slightly fried dough can be pleasant. But the cornmeal trick was taught to me by someone with reasonable authority on the subject of good pizza cooking. And he was right. Cornmeal under the pizza rocks.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

Texture matters more in cooking than I think a lot of folks give it credit for.

Think of a BLT. While it has bacon, it's not just any bacon: It's _crispy_ bacon.

The sandwich works almost entirely on the basis of the textures of the ingredients: The crunch of the lightly toasted white bread, the wetness of the smear of mayo, the crunch of the crispy bacon, the wetness and give of the tomato, the crunch of the iceberg lettuce and then, again, the toasted bread.

Although the saltiness of the bacon stands out, when I think about a good BLT (which I do, more often than I'd like to admit), it's all about that texture.

So I stand by "pleasing grit" with pizza cornmeal.


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## payn

Another thread about to bite the dust because folks cant talk about terms generally. Must be specific definitions, by specific they of course mean their very own strict personal particular definition. Even in a thread asking what the terms means to you (general). This is their chance to share what it means to them, but instead they are calling off the thread because too many people are sharing definitions they disagree with.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> So I stand by "pleasing grit" with pizza cornmeal.



And besides, a greased pan for cooking pizza? Ugh. Cornmeal all the way.


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## Umbran

Gradine said:


> "Pleasing grit" is one of the worst things I've ever read. Just grease your pans properly, pizza nerds!




If you are working with a peel, you aren't baking in a pan - you are baking on a stone.


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## Umbran

overgeeked said:


> And besides, a greased pan for cooking pizza? Ugh. Cornmeal all the way.




It is valid technique - I have a great cast iron pan pizza that needs an oiled pan.  Much Sicilian pizza is made in an oiled pan as well.


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## Cadence

billd91 said:


> There are people who do this and the slightly fried dough can be pleasant. But the cornmeal trick was taught to me by someone with reasonable authority on the subject of good pizza cooking. And he was right. Cornmeal under the pizza rocks.




Place I shift managed didn't use it for the pan pizza or thin pizza (both cooked in pans with oil), but really fine corn meal (with butter iirc?) was used for the really deep stuffed pizzas.


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## Cadence

If everyone at a game doesn't experience immersion, it's simply a failure of ordering.  It isn't that hard to ask for the pizza everyone is sharing to come with dipping sauce for each eater to immerse their share of the crust in. 

#AllDefinitionsAreValidAndUseful


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## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


> It is valid technique - I have a great cast iron pan pizza that needs an oiled pan.  Much Sicilian pizza is made in an oiled pan as well.



True...and pan pizza is amazing.  (I use a giant cast-iron skillet.)

But I wouldn't recommend it with the sourdough pizza crust recipe that I posted.  That particular crust ends up being very crispy and porous, and I think it would soak up too much oil while cooking.  (But maybe that's a good thing, if you like rich, oily bread.  If you're the sort who likes to dip your breadsticks in olive oil, give it a try.)


----------



## Xamnam

How dare you make me this hungry this early.


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## Umbran

CleverNickName said:


> True...and pan pizza is amazing.  (I use a giant cast-iron skillet.)




The thing I'm talking about is more akin to a Sicilian pie than what is normally called "pan pizza" -  



CleverNickName said:


> But I wouldn't recommend it with the sourdough pizza crust recipe that I posted.  That particular crust ends up being very crispy and porous, and I think it would soak up too much oil while cooking.  (But maybe that's a good thing, if you like rich, oily bread.




It isn't like an oiled pan is for deep frying the pizza.  An oiled pan has a thin coat, not sufficient to make bread oily overall.


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## payn

Xamnam said:


> How dare you make me this hungry this early.



The cure to that is thinking about candy corn.


----------



## Xamnam

payn said:


> The cure to that is thinking about candy corn.



Now I'm even hungrier!


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## billd91

Xamnam said:


> Now I'm even hungrier!



Summon up some circus peanuts, STAT.


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## CleverNickName

"You're using the DMG wrong" has the same energy as "you're playing the game wrong."


----------



## RealAlHazred

People wonder at how passionate New Yorkers get about pizza! I point them to this impassioned argument:

POPPIE: Wait a second...what is that?
KRAMER: It's cucumbers.
POPPIE: No, no. You can't put cucumbers on a pizza.
KRAMER: Well, why not? I like cucumbers.
POPPIE: That's not a pizza. It'll taste terrible.
KRAMER: But that's the idea, you make your own pie.
POPPIE: Yes, but we cannot give the people the right to choose any topping they want! Now on this issue there can be no debate!
KRAMER: What gives you the right to tell me how I would make my pie?
POPPIE: Because it's a pizza!
KRAMER: It's not a pizza until it comes out of the oven!
POPPIE: It's a pizza the moment you put your fists in the dough!
KRAMER: No, it isn't!
POPPIE: Yes, it is!


EDIT: I am being informed that the bit is not actually about pizza, but that's bunk! They say, "pizza," right there in the script!


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## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> POPPIE: It's a pizza the moment you put your fists in the dough!


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## Gradine

"pleasing grit"





e:


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## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> "pleasing grit"




I would have gone with ....


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I would have gone with ....


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Mercurius




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Umbran said:


> It isn't like an oiled pan is for deep frying the pizza.  An oiled pan has a thin coat, not sufficient to make bread oily overall.



Pizza Hut is happy to provide you an oil-soaked pan pizza for ... reasons.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

Mercurius said:


> View attachment 264929



Flying around the world to reverse time (or, as some folks want to interpret it, traveling back through time by flying around the world) knocks it down a full letter grade, as does the memory-erasing kiss at the end of Superman 2.

As a result, the best superhero film is Into the Spider-Verse.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Flying around the world to reverse time (or, as some folks want to interpret it, traveling back through time by flying around the world) knocks it down a full letter grade, as does the memory-erasing kiss at the end of Superman 2.
> 
> As a result, the best superhero film is Into the Spider-Verse.




For you consideration ....






Game.

Set.

Awesome....ness...osity......


----------



## Galandris

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Flying around the world to reverse time (or, as some folks want to interpret it, traveling back through time by flying around the world) knocks it down a full letter grade,




Well, if you take a plane supersonic plane west, you can arrive one hour before you left. So if you do that several times in a row, you can arrive several months before, can't you? or not?


----------



## CleverNickName

Also for your consideration:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Also for your consideration:




....is the Academy allowing _television shows_ now?


----------



## Ryujin

"Super" - James Gunn

Tag line - "Shut up, crime!"


----------



## darjr

I knew it! I shoulda called it out here! Dangit!


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....is the Academy allowing _television shows_ now?



Probably not.  I mean they did try that 2018 motion picture but it fizzled.

Maybe I should revise that post to read "Also for your _very brief _consideration."


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Pizza Hut is happy to provide you an oil-soaked pan pizza for ... reasons.



nobody out greases the Hut!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>


----------



## Mercurius

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Flying around the world to reverse time (or, as some folks want to interpret it, traveling back through time by flying around the world) knocks it down a full letter grade, as does the memory-erasing kiss at the end of Superman 2.
> 
> As a result, the best superhero film is Into the Spider-Verse.



That would be incorrect. But you get kudos for not mentioning Guardians of the Galaxy.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>


----------



## Mad_Jack

Seem to be coming across a lot of forum-relevant comic strips lately...

 Calvin and Hobbs by Bill Watterson

...Because D&D is srs bsns...


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## payn




----------



## RealAlHazred




----------



## Ryujin

Typing it here, so I don't end up screaming at co-workers:

Why can't people just believe me when I say that it's absolutely NOT a user-based issue and back it up with testing?! (The full issue is about 6 paragraphs long and involves two different sections in my department, who weren't doing their jobs)


----------



## darjr

Bow chic a wow wow


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

darjr said:


> Bow chic a wow wow


----------



## Umbran

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Pizza Hut is happy to provide you an oil-soaked pan pizza for ... reasons.




It has been decades since I had anything from Pizza Hut.  But I believe their grease issue is less about an oiled pan, and more about the topping ingredients.


----------



## Umbran

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Flying around the world to reverse time...




...is a perfectly cromulent Silver Age comics solution to a comic book problem.


----------



## Umbran

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


>


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

Umbran said:


> It has been decades since I had anything from Pizza Hut.  But I believe their grease issue is less about an oiled pan, and more about the topping ingredients.



I delivered pizza for them in college. They actually had (have, by the smell of the place) literal barrels of oil they slopped on everything, in shocking quantities.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Ryujin said:


> Typing it here, so I don't end up screaming at co-workers:
> 
> Why can't people just believe me when I say that it's absolutely NOT a user-based issue and back it up with testing?! (The full issue is about 6 paragraphs long and involves two different sections in my department, who weren't doing their jobs)



Because it lets them delay action until Monday, if they do it right. Still, the problem probably won't be smaller or less damaging at that point.


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## darjr

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


>



They don’t have stashes either


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## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Why can't people just believe me when I say that it's absolutely NOT a user-based issue and back it up with testing?!




Because if it isn't a user-based issue, they have to _do something about it_.


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Because it lets them delay action until Monday, if they do it right. Still, the problem probably won't be smaller or less damaging at that point.



One of the issues is something that I raised prior to the lockdown! It once again became an issue roughly 3 months back, when people came back to work on campus in this particular area. The other is one that I've been kicking calls for back to the guy who controls the server. He's been diddling with it for about 2 months. To quote Homer Simpson, "I've done nothing and I'm all out of ideas!"


Umbran said:


> Because if it isn't a user-based issue, they have to _do something about it_.



One report could be user error. Two reports could be user error. TWELVE reports is something that's probably not user error.


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## CleverNickName

Umbran said:


>


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## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> One report could be user error. Two reports could be user error. TWELVE reports is something that's probably not user error.




It's obviously an error with the reporting system.


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## Levistus's_Leviathan

Umbran said:


>



Huh. I guess that song was the inspiration for the one I posted. I never knew that before.


----------



## MarkB

Umbran said:


> ...is a perfectly cromulent Silver Age comics solution to a comic book problem.



Flying FTL to turn back time sits just fine with me in comic-book-logic terms. It's where he finishes doing it and then flips round to fly the other way in order to get the globe spinning back in the right direction that the movie loses me.


----------



## overgeeked

Mercurius said:


> View attachment 264929



The Incredibles. The best superhero film of all time. And easily the best Fantastic Four movie ever made.


----------



## MarkB

I'm not sure if Spider-Man Into the Spiderverse is the best superhero movie, but it's the most re-watchable. Like, I haven't tried it for real, but I'm pretty sure I could watch it, then immediately start it again and still enjoy it.


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## darjr

Just rolling rolling rolling the d12s. Rolling rolling rolling the d12s!


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

MarkB said:


> I'm not sure if Spider-Man Into the Spiderverse is the best superhero movie, but it's the most re-watchable. Like, I haven't tried it for real, but I'm pretty sure I could watch it, then immediately start it again and still enjoy it.



My son had a sleepover where they watched Spiderverse for the Nth time and then, when I pointed out there was basically an entirely different version of the film in the DVD/iTunes extras, they sat down and rewatched it again, back to back.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Just rolling rolling rolling the d12s. Rolling rolling rolling the d12s!



I've taken to using them to see who goes first playing EDH.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> One report could be user error. Two reports could be user error. TWELVE reports is something that's probably not user error.




That doesn't mean that anyone actually wants to deal with it, though.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan




----------



## trappedslider

I discovered that a poor (or brave) crazy mod author has taken the time to put one of the worst pieces of fan fiction into skyrim My Immortal


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> That doesn't mean that anyone actually wants to deal with it, though.



No, it certainly doesn't. I would, however, hope that the single help desk person who received all of those calls would think that maybe it was a more generalized issue, if only so that they don't have to do the work of dealing with more calls.


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## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> No, it certainly doesn't. I would, however, hope that the single help desk person who received all of those calls would think that maybe it was a more generalized issue, if only so that they don't have to do the work of dealing with more calls.




What's worse - dealing with the calls, or dealing with the higher ups who are not motivated to address the issue?


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## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> What's worse - dealing with the calls, or dealing with the higher ups who are not motivated to address the issue?



What's worse: Dealing with a situation in a timely manner, of waiting until it lands on the desk of the CIO?


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## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> To quote Homer Simpson, "I've done nothing and I'm all out of ideas!"



_ahem_... That was Flanders' Mom, talking to the Dr. Foster in "Hurricane Neddy," Season 8 Episode 161. "You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas."

Look, schools are run like corporations now, and in corporate IT, procrastination is great! It frees up your day, and now you have activities for tomorrow! In corporate IT, you open a trouble ticket for, say, a printer issue, and the very first response, the _first one_, is, "Is this working now? Can I close the ticket?" Like, sir or ma'am, _you _have done *nothing*._ I_ have done *nothing*. And the printer, well, it is _still doing nothing_...


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## RealAlHazred

At my workplace, some Galaxy Brain Executive decided to create a "Rapid Response Team" chat group, to which _every group_ has been added. The idea is, this is a way to escalate issues directly to the responsible team, without waiting for people to respond to trouble tickets in the Ticketing System (which is how you're _supposed _to do it, but, you know, people procrastinate). So now, my desktop is pinging _every few minutes_ with a new person, screaming into the Void for help. It's basically like herding the entire company into an auditorium and asking everybody to shout out their issues, all at once...


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> _ahem_... That was Flanders' Mom, talking to the Dr. Foster in "Hurricane Neddy," Season 8 Episode 161. "You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas."



Please forgive me. It's been a while 


RealAlHazred said:


> Look, schools are run like corporations now, and in corporate IT, procrastination is great! It frees up your day, and now you have activities for tomorrow! In corporate IT, you open a trouble ticket for, say, a printer issue, and the very first response, the _first one_, is, "Is this working now? Can I close the ticket?" Like, sir or ma'am, _you _have done *nothing*._ I_ have done *nothing*. And the printer, well, it is _still doing nothing_...



In Canada, schools run like schools. If we procrastinate on something then it could mean that a class doesn't get taught. Unfortunately, my group (End User Computing) tends to be a dumping ground for when the helpdesk doesn't know who does a particular thing, or the people who actually do the thing can't be bothered to do all of the leg work that's required to qualify the issue.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> Unfortunately, my group (End User Computing) tends to be a dumping ground for when the helpdesk doesn't know who does a particular thing, or the people who actually do the thing can't be bothered to do all of the leg work that's required to qualify the issue.



My group gets all of the questions because we (stupidly) _actually respond_ to each email, and each ticket. We even answer the phones!


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> At my workplace, some Galaxy Brain Executive decided to create a "Rapid Response Team" chat group, to which _every group_ has been added. The idea is, this is a way to escalate issues directly to the responsible team, without waiting for people to respond to trouble tickets in the Ticketing System (which is how you're _supposed _to do it, but, you know, people procrastinate). So now, my desktop is pinging _every few minutes_ with a new person, screaming into the Void for help. It's basically like herding the entire company into an auditorium and asking everybody to shout out their issues, all at once...



My director created a similar group, but only gave internal staff access to it. No one uses it, because no one wants to listen to this director prattle on for a half an hour about something that in no way impacts our function. Having to sit through weekly meetings that he generally makes a half an hour longer than necessary is bad enough.


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> My group gets all of the questions because we (stupidly) _actually respond_ to each email, and each ticket. We even answer the phones!



Same, though I have taken to making all of my communications via verifiable text (either email or our trouble ticket system), because someone has tried to throw me under the bus far too many times.

Director - Why didn't you do task XYZ that <insert lazy colleague> asked you to do?
Me - Because, as I stated in <note tagged in trouble ticket app> I don't have that access and it's their job.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> What's worse: Dealing with a situation in a timely manner, of waiting until it lands on the desk of the CIO?




That's a question that can only be answered in the context of your organization.  I can only speak to "typical" organizations, for some value of "typical".

C-level execs don't usually come down on low level employees (like the ones who take the calls at the help desk) - they come down on department heads.  And, it isn't typically the job of the people who take calls to _push their superiors_ to get work done.  That isn't what they are paid for.  The phrase "above their pay grade" generally applies.

Under what conditions is the person actually taking the calls going to take on extra labor trying to manage upwards to save their department head grief?  Only when that department head has earned a great deal of goodwill with their department.  Such a department head is likely the sort who was on top of things, such that they _wouldn't need_ the phone techs to take on work to save them.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> That's a question that can only be answered in the context of your organization.  I can only speak to "typical" organizations, for some value of "typical".
> 
> C-level execs don't usually come down on low level employees (like the ones who take the calls at the help desk) - they come down on department heads.  And, it isn't typically the job of the people who take calls to _push their superiors_ to get work done.  That isn't what they are paid for.  The phrase "above their pay grade" generally applies.
> 
> Under what conditions is the person actually taking the calls going to take on extra labor trying to manage upwards to save their department head grief?  Only when that department head has earned a great deal of goodwill with their department.  Such a department head is likely the sort who was on top of things, such that they _wouldn't need_ the phone techs to take on work to save them.



My department has about 250 employees and handles the majority of IT work for the university. The CIO is the top of our food chain, within the department. I started there over 20 years ago, when the CIO was a manager for one of the sub-groups. He's hands-on.

The job of helpdesk is to qualify calls and send them to the correct group. That includes spotting trends and reporting them up the chain. Unfortunately, they don't really care to do their actual jobs, and try to offload a lot of that basic function to my group. Other than helpdesk there are only two other groups, EUC and media services, who are designed for direct client contact. As MS is more specialized and my group more generalized, we become the dumping ground. They literally think that since most of my group have been around for 15+ years and know the school, they don't have to know that part of their actual jobs. "EUC will know. Just send it to them, to figure out." BTW, most of heldesk's staff have been around for 10+ years.

_EDIT_ - To put into perspective how little helpdesk does to "qualify" calls, they frequently fail to obtain the location for where on-site work needs to be performed. They fail to give simple contact information like phone extension. If these guys worked for a pizza delivery chain they would never as you if you wanted a 2L of Coke or some twisty bread with your order, while simultaneously failing to ask your address.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Something just occurred to me...

I just _did_ make a comment in another thread (cuz I'm a rebel like that) about how, with every tv show and movie in existence having been remade or rebooted in the past twenty years, how is it that nobody has ever attempted to redo _Night Court_? (That show was hilarious...)

...And that's when I realized I'm actually_ mildly offended _that nobody has bothered to remake it.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Mad_Jack said:


> Something just occurred to me...
> 
> I just _did_ make a comment in another thread (cuz I'm a rebel like that) about how, with every tv show and movie in existence having been remade or rebooted in the past twenty years, how is it that nobody has ever attempted to redo _Night Court_? (That show was hilarious...)
> 
> ...And that's when I realized I'm actually_ mildly offended _that nobody has bothered to remake it.



Good news, then: ‘Night Court’ Sequel Books Series Order at NBC


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> Something just occurred to me...
> 
> I just _did_ make a comment in another thread (cuz I'm a rebel like that) about how, with every tv show and movie in existence having been remade or rebooted in the past twenty years, how is it that nobody has ever attempted to redo _Night Court_? (That show was hilarious...)
> 
> ...And that's when I realized I'm actually_ mildly offended _that nobody has bothered to remake it.












						‘Night Court’ Sequel Starring Melissa Rauch & John Larroquette Lands Series Order At NBC
					

Night Court is officially in session. NBC has handed the follow-up to the classic legal sitcom a series order. Deadline revealed that the multi-camera comedy, which comes from Outmatched and Unbrea…




					deadline.com
				




By which I mean to say, maybe don't get offended before you make sure you're correct


----------



## Mad_Jack

Umbran said:


> By which I mean to say, maybe don't get offended before you make sure you're correct




 Ah, c'mon - since when has being right ever been a prerequisite for getting offended about something? lol

 On a related note, I unplugged my tv and cancelled my cable subscription more than fifteen years ago and I don't do streaming services, so I rarely ever keep up with tv news.


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> On a related note, I unplugged my tv and cancelled my cable subscription more than fifteen years ago and I don't do streaming services, so I rarely ever keep up with tv news.




So, you didn't even try to make yourself informed, and now you're also offended by something when you wouldn't even be a customer anyway?

Can we go for a trifecta?


----------



## trappedslider

@Ryujin this is the shoulder piece i had my brother use his 3d printer on. I'm not sure it's big enough. It's going to be a bit snug.





Behold my low-skill(newbie)/low-budget EVA foam armor pieces for my Chandra nalaar cosplay




For the life of me, I can't cut straight lines or line them up very well. One and the long tube part piece are for the wrist and the other two will be shoulder guards. I used Krylon shortcut metallic glitter spray paint after brushing on the primer. This is after two coats of the spray.


----------



## Ryujin

The pic of the shoulder piece is a bit blurry, but looks like it's got a really good shape. Certainly larger than my printer could print, unless it was in 3 sections.

Before I got halfway decent with butting strait lines freehand, along a marked line, I would use a stainless steel ruler as a straight edge, flipped so the cork side was up. Worked fairly decently, as long as I maintained pressure on it while cutting.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> _EDIT_ - To put into perspective how little helpdesk does to "qualify" calls, they frequently fail to obtain the location for where on-site work needs to be performed. They fail to give simple contact information like phone extension. If these guys worked for a pizza delivery chain they would never as you if you wanted a 2L of Coke or some twisty bread with your order, while simultaneously failing to ask your address.



My group's name in the organization is "Data Center Operations - <City>," and includes the exact city the Data Center is in. (Well, the one that it _used to be_ in, we're _almost done_ with the move now, the name will have to be changed but nobody's _done it yet_, *anyway*...) That does not stop many, many people in the organization from assigning us Change Requests (which are, at least, probably not that time-sensitive) and Incidents (which definitely are time-sensitive) for tasks in _Data Rooms_ (i.e., much smaller facilities) that are _halfway around the world_ (i.e., not even in my country).

But you know, we actually take the time to figure out where they're supposed to go and get them there, so screw us, I guess...


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> The pic of the shoulder piece is a bit blurry, but looks like it's got a really good shape. Certainly larger than my printer could print, unless it was in 3 sections.



there's a seam down the middle of each piece,so it's a total of 6 pieces


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

There is no subject so obscure that someone won't get incredibly pedantic about it and _outraged_ if you get something wrong.


----------



## Cadence

In a world with both alignment and jury trials, is their being chaotic enough reason to strike a juror?  If the world has magic for detecting lies and thoughts is a jury trial actually ever needed?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> In a world with both alignment and jury trials, is their being chaotic enough reason to strike a juror?  If the world has magic for detecting lies and thoughts is a jury trial actually ever needed?



Oh, man, my illusionist would _wreck_ your campaign. Detect Lies and even Detect Thoughts only detect what the subject _believes_ to be the truth.


----------



## trappedslider

figures they would come out with this lol









						Magic: The Gathering Chandra Pyromancer’s Gauntlet Roleplay Collectibl
					

Standard shipping and handling to the contiguous United States included for Pulse Premium members. Shipping and handling charges will be calculated at the time of checkout for non-Pulse Premium Members. Estimated ship date subject to change, items may ship earlier or later than anticipated...




					hasbropulse.com
				




After taxes and shipping it's 340, but considering all it it comes with I'm okay with that price and since it doesn't ship till a year from now or so I got time to save up lol


----------



## darjr

I knew WotC was the top of the OSR companies in sales, but wow. 

Even there other companies are largely just a footnote.


----------



## trappedslider

darjr said:


> I knew WotC was the top of the OSR companies in sales, but wow.
> 
> Even there other companies are largely just a footnote.



well one of WotC's lines(MTG) becomes a 1B brand 









						Magic: The Gathering Is Now A Billion-Dollar Brand
					

Despite Hasbro’s revenue decline, its subsidiary’s number-one card game is shining brighter than ever.




					sea.ign.com


----------



## Ryujin

Threadcrapping again? Some just never learn.


----------



## trappedslider

Got invited to a Halloween party, I told them i'll show up as Amelia Earheart


----------



## Cadence

That thing where you click "see blocked material" on a page... and are reminded why it's blocked.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> That thing where you click "see blocked material" on a page... and are reminded why it's blocked.


----------



## darjr

That the?!

I didn't ask for any such thing.


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> well one of WotC's lines(MTG) becomes a 1B brand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Magic: The Gathering Is Now A Billion-Dollar Brand
> 
> 
> Despite Hasbro’s revenue decline, its subsidiary’s number-one card game is shining brighter than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sea.ign.com



I meant in just sales of OSR things.


----------



## Cadence

What, next you're going to tell him that Boromir and Denethor weren't the heroes?


----------



## Cadence

I'm pretty sure that the just announced menu change to add pineapple didn't retroactively tank the slice sales earlier in the year, that having the huge annual 1,000 pizza order switch from September to October affects the books, that the couple dozen sides of marinara didn't save the business, and that just because whole pies had a spike you don't just stop selling by the slice.


----------



## payn

Karaoke party tonight. Need song ideas. I just did Sam the sham and the pharoes little red riding hood. Now drawing a blank.


----------



## trappedslider

@Ryujin 
it's done and a friend took some pictures of it at my church's Halloween party



Spoiler


----------



## Aeson

Why comment if you don't like the topic? Just move on. I'm happy to hear an actor I like playing a part that he's good for is returning. You dislike the character? Good for you. Let us fans have our moment.


----------



## Ryujin

You got your own thread for it. Do we really need _another_ thread to hate on it too?


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> You got your own thread for it. Do we really need _another_ thread to hate on it too?



And i think we have the sites first (-) thread


----------



## billd91

Yeah, I'm going for it.


----------



## Cadence

It would be kind of fun to have access to all of the data on all the likes and responses and ignores in order to make a big 2-dimensional multidimensional scaling, network-analysis, whatever type thing with all the users on it.  And then have that set up to be rotatable and flippable behind a classic alignment grid so that each user could give themselves an alignment and see where everyone else fell based on that.


----------



## CleverNickName

Okay yes, I understand how the Ignore feature works.  Some people just can't handle my Spicy Hot Takes, and I totally get that.  I am, after all, known for my controversial and unconventional truths.

Now.  What I want to know is:  how can I _not let people ignore me?_  I have all this important stuff that everyone needs to hear, and I can't have them ignoring me when I'm trying to pass my Very Important Message along to them.

No can do?  Weird, but okay.  Maybe you could, like, somehow let me know when someone is Ignoring me, so that I could (REDACTED) and get my Very Important Message to them _that way_ instead?  I'd really appreciate it.  I weep for all the people on these boards, suffering in silence, unable to hear my latest bon mots about the current Survivor thread.


----------



## trappedslider

It appears that we can have threads that are - just like we have threads that are only + but don't mark it as -


----------



## Cadence

So, that thread is almost like the opposite of this one...


----------



## Cadence

Yay, another thread where your first post is negative, judgemental, and abrasive.  I can only assume your subsequent responses will continue to be as fun. Thank you for adding to the community!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Yay, another thread where your first post is negative, judgemental, and abrasive.  I can only assume your subsequent responses will continue to be as fun. Thank you for adding to the community!



You're welcome! I do what I can!


----------



## Jacob Lewis

trappedslider said:


> It appears that we can have threads that are - just like we have threads that are only + but don't mark it as -



That's just the default setting for a lot of people.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Thank you for adding to the community!









November 6. Let's do the time warp .... again.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


>



I think pineapple is the least concerning thing about that pizza.  I mean,  look at that moldy crust and magenta-colored sauce...


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> I think pineapple is the least concerning thing about that pizza.  I mean,  look at that moldy crust and magenta-colored sauce...



Frankly, it really looks like the plastic fake pizza they put in furniture in the store (I guess to show you the worst it could possibly look, if all of your food was ruined by flavour and colour vampires).


----------



## darjr




----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

Campaign -- Character choice

Deadlands - Wookie Jedi
Forgotten Realms D&D - Wookie Jedi
Blades in the Dark - Wookie Jedi
Eberron D&D - Wookie Jedi
Top Secret - Wookie Jedi
Pendragon - Wookie Jedi
Star Trek - Wookie Jedi
Call of Cthulhu - Wookie Jedi
Twighlight 2000 - Wookie Jedi
Bushido - Wookie Jedi
Vampire the Masquerade - Wookie Jedi
Star Wars - Elvish Cleric of Corellon Larethian from Oerth


----------



## prabe

Eventually, I will learn your threads are not useful to me, and I will stop reading them and being frustrated when they aren't useful to me.


----------



## trappedslider

So after some thought and taking into account my abilities and funds and other considerations I have decided that I'm unable to make a cosplay of gaming characters something I do and enjoy doing. However, I have looked into cosplaying steampunk (something I was already into) and it looks like it will be easiest on me.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> So after some thought and taking into account my abilities and funds and other considerations I have decided that I'm unable to make a cosplay of gaming characters something I do and enjoy doing. However, I have looked into cosplaying steampunk (something I was already into) and it looks like it will be easiest on me.



So both a bad and good thing.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> So both a bad and good thing.



yeah, if i hadn't been "Omg, I can do this and it will be easy blah blah" I would have realized that my want and enthusiasm outpaced my capability.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> yeah, if i hadn't been "Omg, I can do this and it will be easy blah blah" I would have realized that my want and enthusiasm outpaced my capability.



Skill only comes with time. Got to give yourself the chance to learn


----------



## RealAlHazred

Oh, _that's_ what you guys mean about people starting threads to ask questions they've already decided the answer to...


----------



## Cadence

Someone voting to go to a pizza place and then complaining that the menu doesn't have tacos on it and demanding to know why... would probably make me never associate with them again.  (It might be insignificant in the grand scheme of things, buy I just can't).


----------



## RealAlHazred

"I would like to order a pizza."
"Certainly, sir! What kind would you like?"
"I would like it with pita bread, and sour cream and guacamole, and put in beef and peppers."
"Uh... Sir, that's... that's a soft taco..."
"So, you won't make my pizza, then? You're not actually a place that sells pizza?"


----------



## Gammadoodler

RealAlHazred said:


> "I would like to order a pizza."
> "Certainly, sir! What kind would you like?"
> "I would like it with pita bread, and sour cream and guacamole, and put in beef and peppers."
> "Uh... Sir, that's... that's a soft taco..."
> "So, you won't make my pizza, then? You're not actually a place that sells pizza?"



Pita bread soft taco???
..you..monster..

That's (mostly) a gyro.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gammadoodler said:


> Pita bread soft taco???
> ..you..monster..
> 
> That's (mostly) a gyro.




Gyro?

That’s a poor man’s shawarma.


----------



## darjr

Pineapple and coffee beans even little fishies, but no way are you putting that ham on my pizza!


----------



## Galandris

Now that I have enquired about culture war, I am worried that a political party is, unbeknownst to me, claiming ownership of my love for having an egg sunny-side-up on the pizza. Every kind of pizzas, all are better with an egg on top, with the yolk still runny.

People who let the yolk coagulate, of course, are heathens. Much like the count of the Holy Hand Grenade shall be to 3, not more, the temperature of the yolk shall not count up to 63°C, except when proceeding to count to 64°C.


----------



## darjr

Is that Batman?! I’m gonna to go say hi!
Dint, he’s dead.
Dead?!? They just put a drink on his table!
He’s dead I tell you, for the next six issues, for story.
Uh, ok. I wondered what that smell was.


----------



## Cadence

Say your knowledge "of the entire history of D&D" started sometime after 1989 (quite possibly after 2003) without just coming out and saying it.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Say your knowledge "of the entire history of D&D" started sometime after 1989 (quite possibly after 2003) without just coming out and saying it.



Look, my knowledge of the entire history of D&D is immense and all-encompassing. I am quite likely omniscient when it comes to D&D things.

What, me? I started playing with 4th edition...


----------



## el-remmen

"Everyone has the right to include or exclude whatever they want from their games, and I have the right to tell them why they are a terrible person who hates their players and is DMing wrong."


----------



## Gammadoodler

RealAlHazred said:


> I am quite likely omniscient...



The only thing I don't know is whether I know everything.


----------



## trappedslider

I have finally unwatched a thread


----------



## darjr

What I know that I don’t know is minuscule compared to what I don’t know I don’t know. Ya know?


----------



## AnotherGuy

el-remmen said:


> "Everyone has the right to include or exclude whatever they want from their games, and I have the right to tell them why they are a terrible person who hates their players and is DMing wrong."



I'm all for that but it may rub a mod the wrong way - if you tell a poster they are a terrible person


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> I have finally unwatched a thread




 Now if I could just unwatch all that other internet stuff I regret having clicked on...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gammadoodler said:


> The only thing I don't know is whether I know everything.



As you know, there are known knowns; there are things you know youknow. You also know there are known unknowns; that is to say you know there are some things you do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones you don't know you don't know. You know?


----------



## Cadence

Imagining the next level of oppressive DMs...

"I'm really excited about this Arthurian Legends game you're putting together for us. I know you said we should all be races that appear really close to human... and I've been thinking either Thri-Kreen or Giff. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to do anything cheesy and have the NPCs treat me differently than any of the other party members just because of how I look."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Imagining the next level of oppressive DMs...
> 
> "I'm really excited about this Arthurian Legends game you're putting together for us. I know you said we should all be races that appear really close to human... and I've been thinking either Thri-Kreen or Giff. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to do anything cheesy and have the NPCs treat me differently than any of the other party members just because of how I look."




What's that term ... you know ... the one for all of the power of the DM, but none of the work?

It's on the tip of the my tongue ...

Player ... player a.... 



Spoiler


----------



## RealAlHazred

You got to get the new Player's Screens. They've got tables for the relevant classes, and two dice towers so you can roll in secret or out in the open. Why should the DM have all the power?


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> As you know, there are known knowns; there are things you know youknow. You also know there are known unknowns; that is to say you know there are some things you do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones you don't know you don't know. You know?



No.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Imagining the next level of oppressive DMs...
> 
> "I'm really excited about this Arthurian Legends game you're putting together for us. I know you said we should all be races that appear really close to human... and I've been thinking either Thri-Kreen or Giff. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to do anything cheesy and have the NPCs treat me differently than any of the other party members just because of how I look."





			https://media.giphy.com/media/XDdvIDHasJTW8qJtsn/giphy-downsized-large.gif


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> What's that term ... you know ... the one for all of the power of the DM, but none of the work?
> 
> It's on the tip of the my tongue ...
> 
> Player ... player a....



Player antagonist?
Player, Annoying?
Player assumes they're in charge?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> Imagining the next level of oppressive DMs...
> 
> "I'm really excited about this Arthurian Legends game you're putting together for us. I know you said we should all be races that appear really close to human... and I've been thinking either Thri-Kreen or Giff. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to do anything cheesy and have the NPCs treat me differently than any of the other party members just because of how I look."




Hey, the only reason everybody else in the party is playing a bunch of Aasimar paladins and clerics questing for the Holy Grail is because they lack imagination - my half-fiendish tiefling warlock (that looks like Morrigan from Darkstalkers) who's literally the daughter of Satan and couldn't care less about the Grail (except that finding it will piss off Daddy) is awesome and original. So you totally have to let me play her _again_...


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


> As you know, there are known knowns; there are things you know youknow. You also know there are known unknowns; that is to say you know there are some things you do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones you don't know you don't know. You know?


----------



## Cadence

It well may be that in a difficult hour, 
Pinned down by pain and moaning for release, 
Or nagged by want past resolution's power, 
I might be driven to unblock you for peace, 
Or trade unblocking you for food. 
It well may be. I do not think I would. 

(with thanks to Millay)


----------



## billd91

There are some days I don't know why creators/publishers bother to do anything considering the audience they're creating for.


----------



## Cadence

I was really excited that Sandman is renewed for season 2.  But then I immediately felt a horrible sense of foreboding.   What if Gaiman goes all power trippy and restrictive and doesn't add any Orcs to it!?!?!   Will he use a lame reason like  trying  to distinguish it from his Rings of Power series on Amazon!?!


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> It well may be that in a difficult hour,
> Pinned down by pain and moaning for release,
> Or nagged by want past resolution's power,
> I might be driven to unblock you for peace,
> Or trade unblocking you for food.
> It well may be. I do not think I would.
> 
> (with thanks to Millay)




One of the readings at my wedding.  . .well, kinda.


----------



## el-remmen

Cadence said:


> I was really excited that Sandman is renewed for season 2.  But then I immediately felt a horrible sense of foreboding.   What if Gaiman goes all power trippy and restrictive and doesn't add any Orcs to it!?!?!   Will he use a lame reason like  trying  to distinguish it from his Rings of Power series on Amazon!?!




Of course, Sandman could totally get away with a Tolkien pastiche and have orcs. . . it is about dreams, after all.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

el-remmen said:


> Of course, Sandman could totally get away with a Tolkien pastiche and have orcs. . . it is about dreams, after all.



Yeah. I'm not all that familiar with Sandman (I watched the show, haven't read the comic yet), but Tolkien's or D&D Orcs absolutely could exist in the Dreaming.


----------



## payn




----------



## AnotherGuy

I'm disappointed that with so many orc lovers on Enworld we couldn't even spring for a movie sequel to Warcraft. 
Yes, I'm unashamedly one of the few who loved it (and I have never played the online MMORPG)


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

Seeing how personally enforcing not paying attention to those who seemingly always need tacos when they choose to visit a pizza place affects the ambiance.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Me, when I wake up ....






Me, after reading posting on enworld ....


----------



## darjr

Oh! Parody! Git yer mind outa the gutter.


----------



## RealAlHazred

And once again, I had a whole long post written out and hyperlinked, thought about it just a bit more, and decided not to feed the trolls today. Into the bit bucket with you!


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> Oh! Parody! Git yer mind outa the gutter.



It's only parody if I agree with it. If I don't it's a personal attack!


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> And once again, I had a whole long post written out and hyperlinked thought about it just a bit more, and decided not to feed the trolls today. Into the bit bucket with you!



Sometimes that hurts.

Sometimes it's just cathartic.


----------



## RealAlHazred

After having a dog for six years, I find I can't think about Laika the Cosmodog (1954-November 3, 1957) without tearing up a little.



			
				Oleg Gazenko said:
			
		

> Work with animals is a source of suffering to all of us. We treat them like babies who cannot speak. The more time passes, the more I'm sorry about it. We shouldn't have done it ... We did not learn enough from this mission to justify the death of the dog.


----------



## Cadence

What if we had Vancian posting, or something like a short rest recharge.   You start the day with three posts or replies.  You can recharge that twice a day with a one hour break.  After that it takes 8 hours of not being on the site at all?   (I mean, except on this thread.  No need to be monstrous).


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> What if we had Vancian posting, or something like a short rest recharge.   You start the day with three posts or replies.  You can recharge that twice a day with a one hour break.  After that it takes 8 hours of not being on the site at all?   (I mean, except on this thread.  No need to be monstrous).



Nah. You need to break it by length or something.

Or you could go all spell-points and just give people a fixed number of paragraphs or something per day.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> Nah. You need to break it by length or something.
> 
> Or you could go all spell-points and just give people a fixed number of paragraphs or something per day.



A lot of short useless replies might annoy me more than a bunch of half-thought out big ones.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Nah. You need to break it by length or something.
> 
> Or you could go all spell-points and just give people a fixed number of paragraphs or something per day.



Are you trying to invent Twitter or something? Elon already did that.


----------



## Cadence

I just need HBOmax to make it to the 17th so we can watch A Christmas Story Christmas...


----------



## Ryujin

Two unwatched now. No point in going near another.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Two unwatched now. No point in going near another.



same


----------



## Cadence

I will not make the mods lives more difficult, I will not make the mods lives more difficult ,...

But seriously, I wonder if the recording in episode 9 was actually a tape of some of these threads by voice actors trying to guess the tones of the posters?


----------



## Cadence

A design can't be judged as brilliant without knowing its purpose.  No matter how well made and delicious it is, that burrito I had is not a well designed pizza.  The SR-71 might be a brilliantly designed plane, but it's awful if it was supposed to be a passenger jet  (the X-men not withstanding).


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> A design can't be judged as brilliant without knowing its purpose.  No matter how well made and delicious it is, that burrito I had is not a well designed pizza.  The SR-71 might be a brilliantly designed plane, but it's awful if it was supposed to be a passenger jet  (the X-men not withstanding).



They were trying to make a brilliant interceptor, that turned out to be a more brilliant reconnaissance aircraft.


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> A design can't be judged as brilliant without knowing its purpose.  No matter how well made and delicious it is, that burrito I had is not a well designed pizza.




Intended purpose is less important than effect.  Rather than harp on how badly designed a pizza it may be, maybe figuring out how to enjoy it for what it is, rather than what you want it to be, or what marketing copy says it is, is a more fruitful approach.

Either that, or realize that you don't like pineapple, whether it is in a burrito or on pizza.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Intended purpose is less important than effect.  Rather than harp on how badly designed a pizza it may be, maybe figuring out how to enjoy it for what it is, rather than what you want it to be, or what marketing copy says it is, is a more fruitful approach.
> 
> Either that, or realize that you don't like pineapple, whether it is in a burrito or on pizza.




If the claim is just X is awesome, or X is awesome for what it actually does then I totally agree.  (Lots of the great scientific discoveries were found trying to do something else, right?).

If someone orders a thing crust pizza and are given a stuffed one, or orders the chicken but gets beef, then it feels like the quality of the stuffed execution or quality of the beef might not matter (until you're ordering stuffed pizza or beef some time).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Intended purpose is less important than effect.  Rather than harp on how badly designed a pizza it may be, maybe figuring out how to enjoy it for what it is, rather than what you want it to be, or what marketing copy says it is, is a more fruitful approach.




Weirdly, that's the unsuccessful closing argument in "State v. Restaurant that Serves People Shellfish Without Telling Them."


----------



## el-remmen

That thread is not going to end well.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> That thread is not going to end well.




Over/under is 250 comments before lock.

(Take the under)


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> (Take the under)




Insert "fumunda cheese" joke here


----------



## AnotherGuy

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Over/under is 250 comments before lock.
> 
> (Take the under)



Since it is a Friday, I'm gonna be an optimist and take the over.

Don't cheat by reporting posts.


----------



## Von Ether

Not here, but on Twitter, I am just trying not to engage on ttrpg posts that obviously are click bait by stretching a DM/Player style into hyperbole and a strawman. Also many of them just recycling the same POV again and again. 

It did my heart good to see one such post do a meme that pitted Matt Mercer against one of his replacements and the overall response was "Both of these GMs would not approve of your message."


----------



## Umbran

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Weirdly, that's the unsuccessful closing argument in "State v. Restaurant that Serves People Shellfish Without Telling Them."




When I order food in a restaurant, there is an implicit contract about the content of the food.  It is well known that this implicit contract is important, because hospitals can be involved.  That applies to real pizza, but not to "pizza" as this thread uses the term, as the "pizza" in this this thread is not made to order, and will generally not send people to the hospital unless you drop it on them from an upper-story window.

Moreover, when speaking about ingredients the issue isn't _design_, but _materials_. 

So, I submit that my argument still stands, even if it fails in State v Restaurant, because SvR is a _misapplication_ of my position.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> When I order food in a restaurant, there is an implicit contract about the content of the food.  It is well known that this implicit contract is important, because hospitals can be involved.  That applies to real pizza, but not to "pizza" as this thread uses the term, as the "pizza" in this this thread will generally not send people to the hospital unless you drop it on them from an upper-story window.
> 
> Moreover, when speaking about ingredients the issue isn't _design_, but _materials_.
> 
> So, I submit that my argument still stands, even if it fails in State v Restaurant, because SvR is a _misapplication_ of my position.




I, too, watched nine episodes of _Boston Legal _before I realized it wasn't a new _Star Trek_.

Alas, there is no class action for tortious interference with Kirkian goodness. As they always say, lex loci delicti means that that the torte is most delicious where it was cooked.


----------



## Gammadoodler

Umbran said:


> When I order food in a restaurant, there is an implicit contract about the content of the food.  It is well known that this implicit contract is important, because hospitals can be involved.  That applies to real pizza, but not to "pizza" as this thread uses the term, as the "pizza" in this this thread will generally not send people to the hospital unless you drop it on them from an upper-story window.
> 
> Moreover, when speaking about ingredients the issue isn't _design_, but _materials_.
> 
> So, I submit that my argument still stands, even if it fails in State v Restaurant, because SvR is a _misapplication_ of my position.



The worst part of a gravity-based pizza hospitalization would be the existential dread of waiting to look the healthcare workers in the eye when you know they are aware of the source of your injuries. 

Heaven forbid it was a thin crust.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gammadoodler said:


> The worst part of a gravity-based pizza hospitalization would be the existential dread of waiting to look the healthcare workers in the eye when you know they are aware of the source of your injuries.
> 
> Heaven forbid it was a thin crust.




Or even worse .... the Chicago-style deep dish casserole pizza.


----------



## Gammadoodler

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or even worse .... the Chicago-style deep dish casserole pizza.



Heavens..that gif..


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gammadoodler said:


> Heavens..that gif..




No one should have a swimming pool's worth of hot dog ketchup marinara sauce dumped on them.


ETA- look at the bright side ... no pineapples!


----------



## billd91

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Over/under is 250 comments before lock.
> 
> (Take the under)



Yeah, definitely under.


----------



## el-remmen

el-remmen said:


> That thread is not going to end well.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hm, a thread about adventure modules?
Oh.
Oh I see.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Or even worse .... the Chicago-style deep dish casserole pizza.


----------



## CleverNickName

*The Chicago-Style Pizza Stages of Development*

Stage 1:  80% crust, 10% sauce, 10% cheese




Stage 2: 40% crust, 50% sauce, 10% cheese




Stage 3:  25% crust, 75% sauce, 0% cheese




Stage 4:
100% sauce, 0% crust, 0% cheese




What I'm trying to say is, "Chicago Style" is pizza that wants to be soup when it grows up.
And all stages of its lifecycle are _delicious._


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Are you trying to invent Twitter or something? Elon already did that.




"Conan! What is best in life?"

"To crush your enemies on Twitter, to drive them off of social media, and to hear the lamentations of their followers."

"This is what is best in life."


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> *The Chicago-Style Pizza Stages of Development*
> 
> Stage 1:  80% crust, 10% sauce, 10% cheese
> View attachment 265725
> 
> Stage 2: 40% crust, 50% sauce, 10% cheese
> View attachment 265726
> 
> Stage 3:  25% crust, 75% sauce, 0% cheese
> View attachment 265727
> 
> Stage 4:
> 100% sauce, 0% crust, 0% cheese
> View attachment 265729
> 
> What I'm trying to say is, "Chicago Style" is pizza that wants to be soup when it grows up.
> And all stages of its lifecycle are _delicious._




Somewhere early on is the 15% crust, 75% cheese, 10% sauce...


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> *The Chicago-Style Pizza Stages of Development*
> 
> Stage 1:  80% crust, 10% sauce, 10% cheese
> View attachment 265725



That's just a normal pizza


----------



## AnotherGuy

Under 250 it is.
That was sad, I was enjoying the conversation.


----------



## prabe

[looks in thread, sees images with quotes posted, in numbers]

MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIM


----------



## Mad_Jack

Random thought:

 If we accept the Tommy Westphall Universe theory, that hundreds of tv shows and movies are only happening in the mind of a kid who was born sometime in the 1970's, what happens when that kid grows old and dies twenty or thirty years from now?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> Random thought:
> 
> If we accept the Tommy Westphall Universe theory, that hundreds of tv shows and movies are only happening in the mind of a kid who was born sometime in the 1970's, what happens when that kid grows old and dies twenty or thirty years from now?




......_YOU FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!_

We all thought David Zaslav was removing shows from HBO Max for silly reasons like, "They have a massive debt," and "They want to screw creatives out of their residuals," and "David Zalsav is actually the Grinch."

BUT NO! The shows are disappearing because Tommy Westphall is _forgetting that they existed_. Pretty soon, all we will have is endless reruns of _Galactica 1980_.


----------



## el-remmen




----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ......_YOU FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!_
> 
> We all thought David Zaslav was removing shows from HBO Max for silly reasons like, "They have a massive debt," and "They want to screw creatives out of their residuals," and "David Zalsav is actually the Grinch."
> 
> BUT NO! The shows are disappearing because Tommy Westphall is _forgetting that they existed_. Pretty soon, all we will have is endless reruns of _Galactica 1980_.



Sadly that makes MORE sense


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> Sadly that makes MORE sense




But wait ... didn't you hear the GOOD NEWS????

Sure, they might charge you a lot more for HBO Max because of the addition of that Discovery Content ... but look at the bright side ...

They also announced that they can fit in TWO TIMES as many advertisements in the ad-supported tier (that you're still paying for) as they had previously.


_GENIUS! _


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mad_Jack said:


> Random thought:
> 
> If we accept the Tommy Westphall Universe theory, that hundreds of tv shows and movies are only happening in the mind of a kid who was born sometime in the 1970's, what happens when that kid grows old and dies twenty or thirty years from now?



Ooh, a good time to post Poobala's Crossover list.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Does anybody know a way to find just locked threads? I'd like to know what people are talking about without bothering them with my curiosity. It's not like I'll be able to drag a locked thread even further down the toilet -- it's locked!


----------



## Gammadoodler

RealAlHazred said:


> Does anybody know a way to find just locked threads? I'd like to know what people are talking about without bothering them with my curiosity. It's not like I'll be able to drag a locked thread even further down the toilet -- it's locked!



There might be better ways, but searching for "thread closed" posts from the mod team would probably find a bunch.


----------



## darjr

He’s already dead.


----------



## Mad_Jack

RealAlHazred said:


> Does anybody know a way to find just locked threads? I'd like to know what people are talking about without bothering them with my curiosity. It's not like I'll be able to drag a locked thread even further down the toilet -- it's locked!




 Well, it's not very efficient, but if you're looking at a particular forum there will be a "lock" icon visible between the title of any locked thread and the number of replies it has.
So if you know, or have an idea, of what forum the thread you're looking for is on, it's just a matter of quickly scrolling down the first page or two to find it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*TIL*

The way that some people pronounce "futile," makes it sound like they are saying "feudal."

However, unless I am at enworld, I should probably assume that they said, "futile."


Also- if you say "flagon of ale," to most people, they will hear, "flag and a veil."


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *TIL*
> 
> The way that some people pronounce "futile," makes it sound like they are saying "feudal."
> 
> However, unless I am at enworld, I should probably assume that they said, "futile."
> 
> 
> Also- if you say "flagon of ale," to most people, they will hear, "flag and a veil."




 A young child once pointed out to me that if you say "Mad Jack" really fast seven times, it becomes "Magic"...   

On a less facetious note, I live in the state of Connecticut, which locally is pronounced more like "Kinetic-it"...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> On a less facetious note, I live in the state of Connecticut, which locally is pronounced more like "Kinetic-it"...




Weird. I thought there were only two acceptable pronounciations:

1. "Not New England."
2. "Outer New York."


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Weird. I thought there were only two acceptable pronounciations:
> 
> 1. "Not New England."
> 2. "Outer New York."


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


>



787: Orbiter - explain xkcd


----------



## MarkB

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *TIL*
> 
> The way that some people pronounce "futile," makes it sound like they are saying "feudal."
> 
> However, unless I am at enworld, I should probably assume that they said, "futile."
> 
> 
> Also- if you say "flagon of ale," to most people, they will hear, "flag and a veil."



Yeah, but trying to get them to change is an exercise in fertility.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Just found out OGRE/GEV illustrator and all-around turbonerd Winchell Chung (webmaster of the amazing Atomic Rockets and 3-D Starmaps sites) was diagnosed with cancer last year. I've heard the COVID-19 guys were hoping to use the newer technologies to try to find new ways to fight cancer, so they better get a move on it!


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


> I have finally unwatched a thread



The hivemind won't be the same without you.


----------



## Aeson

Mad_Jack said:


> Now if I could just unwatch all that other internet stuff I regret having clicked on...



The hivemind won't....whoa deja vu.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Affiliate links should be broken on this site, except when they go to underwrite the site itself.


----------



## trappedslider

Aeson said:


> The hivemind won't be the same without you.



i would never unwatch that thread


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


> 787: Orbiter - explain xkcd



was that needed?


----------



## darjr

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Affiliate links should be broken on this site, except when they go to underwrite the site itself.



Is that bad? I took mine down for a while and post an alternate.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> Is that bad? I took mine down for a while and post an alternate.




The sponsored links always washed over me like the ads on Twitter and FB... didn't even notice moth.


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> was that needed?



No, but there's usually additional jokes/humor added in the commentary!


----------



## Deset Gled

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I, too, watched nine episodes of _Boston Legal _before I realized it wasn't a new _Star Trek_.




Um, actually, "implicit contract about the content of the food" was the plot from an episode of Ally McBeal, not Boston Legal.









						They Eat Horses, Don't They?
					

They Eat Horses, Don't They? is the 2nd episode of Season Two of Ally McBeal. A client sues a radio shock jock for contributing to sexual harassment at her workplace while Cage defends a restaurateur who fed a customer horse meat. Nelle tells John Cage that she is aware of his attraction towards...




					allymcbeal.fandom.com


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


> No, but there's usually additional jokes/humor added in the commentary!



Honestly, I didn't think about that but you're right.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Affiliate links should be broken on this site, except when they go to underwrite the site itself.



Meh, I don't mind throwing a little credit to people who may have interested me in a product I might otherwise have been unaware of. AFAIK, the price on DTRPG doesn't change when you use an affiliate link. However, I do believe URLs with affiliate links should have some sort of indicator so you are made aware it's an affiliate link without personally parsing the URL.

EDIT: Underwriting the site itself should, IMO, be primarily done through Patreon, but also through the ads/deals that frequently hit the site. I'm not bothered by the ads on ENWorld; they're kept fairly easy to ignore.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Weird. I thought there were only two acceptable pronounciations:
> 
> 1. "Not New England."
> 2. "Outer New York."




 You seem to have us confused with New Jersey.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Whenever people ask me, "Did you miss me?", I usually reply with, "With every shot so far..." 

Hagar the Horrible by Chris Brown


----------



## Mad_Jack

I really wish I had the cash to get one of these shirts right now...





Also, three posts in a row? Geez, you people are slacking...

Here, maybe this'll get something started...

PINEAPPLE PIZZA! PINEAPPLE PIZZA! PINEAPPLE PIZZA!

(Hey, if I say it five times, can I get one to show up at my house? That might be worth picking the pineapple off of it...)


----------



## CleverNickName

I never got aTwitter account.
Looks like I've always been ahead of my time.


----------



## MarkB

Mad_Jack said:


> Here, maybe this'll get something started...
> 
> PINEAPPLE PIZZA! PINEAPPLE PIZZA! PINEAPPLE PIZZA!
> 
> (Hey, if I say it five times, can I get one to show up at my house? That might be worth picking the pineapple off of it...)



Good luck with that.


----------



## Mad_Jack

MarkB said:


> Good luck with that.




 I'd settle for a couple of those...


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

MarkB said:


> Good luck with that.



What's the crust there? If those are handmade, they're extremely even. Good toppings and photography, otherwise.


----------



## Aeson

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> What's the crust there? If those are handmade, they're extremely even. Good toppings and photography, otherwise.



At first glance I was thinking Ritz crackers.


----------



## MarkB

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> What's the crust there? If those are handmade, they're extremely even. Good toppings and photography, otherwise.



That would be grilled pineapple slices. Like I said, good luck picking it out.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

MarkB said:


> That would be grilled pineapple slices. Like I said, good luck picking it out.



I know what you're being asked to bring to the potluck.


----------



## Hussar

That actually looks pretty yummy. 

And in keeping with the thread, I’m sorry I thought this was discussion. I didn’t realize you just expected everyone to pat you on the back and agree with you.


----------



## Gradine

A single word? I didn't even think that was possible


----------



## overgeeked

It’s awesome how people decide for you what you meant then run wild with it.


----------



## darjr

Well apparently I’m a better comedian than even I give myself credit for. And trust me I give myself a lot of credit.


----------



## darjr

Is... is this a brand new BAD WRONG FUN? 

Could it be?


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> Is... is this a brand new BAD WRONG FUN?
> 
> Could it be?



Comes in many flavors


----------



## trappedslider

well, today i reached character level 37.


----------



## overgeeked

Clearly it’s easier to strawman and reduce anyone you disagree with’s position to caricature than ever even trying to have an honest conversation. Nope, there’s no toxicity in that fandom. None at all.


----------



## Cadence

Maybe the best thing about no-politics on here is that I can come here to escape people who are ostensibly on "my side" making really insipid and counterproductive points.  Well, about politics anyway.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> Maybe the best thing about no-politics on here is that I can come here to escape people who are ostensibly on "my side" making really insipid or counterproductive points.  Well, about politics anyway.



One of the problems with politics being turned into football teams -- and then being made _way_ too central to personal identity -- is that a lot of people, on all sides, don't seem to have actually deeply thought about or researched what they profess to believe. If your reason for believing something is because your parents and college classmates believe it, you might not actually believe it at all -- you're just going with the flow.


----------



## payn

What do y'all do when some of your folks like greased pans, and the others like pleasing grit?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> What do y'all do when some of your folks like greased pans, and the others like pleasing grit?



My son hates the grit.  So, that does it - at least on his.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> My son hates the grit.  So, that does it - at least on his.



...but the grit is so pleasing!


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> ...but the grit is so pleasing!




My son is pickier about food than <person I blocked on here> is about <that poster's favorite thing>.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> ...but the grit is so pleasing!


----------



## trappedslider

trappedslider said:


> well, today i reached character level 37.



i turned 37 btw if no one figured that out lol


----------



## Galandris

trappedslider said:


> i turned 37 btw if no one figured that out lol




Sorry I was dumb and didn't get it, happy birthday!


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> i turned 37 btw if no one figured that out lol




Happy Birthday!!!
(I was oblivious).


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> Sorry I was dumb and didn't get it, happy birthday!



... kid


----------



## overgeeked

Saying “you only like it because of nostalgia” is the last refuge of someone who cannot comprehend that different people like different things for different reasons.


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> i turned 37 btw if no one figured that out lol




Happy belated Milestone Leveling!


----------



## prabe

That's a nice trap you've laid there.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> That's a nice trap you've laid there.


----------



## el-remmen

My reaction to. . . well, I won't say what.


----------



## darjr

overgeeked said:


> Saying “you only like it because of nostalgia” is the last refuge of someone who cannot comprehend that different people like different things for different reasons.



Not to mention “nostalgia” doesn’t mean some universal bit of that thing. 

My nostalgia might be for the blue maps, which you hate, and yours might be for the stat blocks, which I detest.

(Theoretical you and me that is)


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> Not to mention “nostalgia” doesn’t mean some universal bit of that thing.
> 
> My nostalgia might be for the blue maps, which you hate, and yours might be for the stat blocks, which I detest.
> 
> (Theoretical you and me that is)



But what if both blue maps and stat blocks are detestable, and a good indication that fans of that thing are bad people who should feel bad about enjoying the game incorrectly?


----------



## MarkB

RealAlHazred said:


> But what if both blue maps and stat blocks are detestable, and a good indication that fans of that thing are bad people who should feel bad about enjoying the game incorrectly?



Then I guess nostalgia ain't what it used to be.


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> well, today i reached character level 37.




 Wait... If I'm level 50, shouldn't I have more feats?

Or at least more treasure?


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> Wait... If I'm level 50, shouldn't I have more feats?
> 
> Or at least more treasure?



Perhaps you are in 3E with wicked level drain?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Sometimes it seems like no one hates D&D more than D&D fans.

But then I remember the Satanic Panic.

So I guess there is _one _group that hates D&D more than D&D fans.


----------



## Hussar

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Sometimes it seems like no one hates D&D more than D&D fans.
> 
> But then I remember the Satanic Panic.
> 
> So I guess there is _one _group that hates D&D more than D&D fans.




The Venn diagram overlap between Star Wars fandom behaviour and DnD fandom behaviour is often very discouraging.


----------



## Galandris

Mad_Jack said:


> Wait... If I'm level 50, shouldn't I have more feats?
> 
> Or at least more treasure?




That was WBL was for! Too bad they dropped it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> The Venn diagram overlap between Star Wars fandom behaviour and DnD fandom behaviour is often very discouraging.




I think it's fandom in general. Whether you're discussing love of a band, or a sports team, or a part of nerd culture- the innate tribalism that is part of being a fan happens to be close to a constellation of behaviors that are toxic.

That's not to excuse the behavior- far from it. I think some fandoms do a better job of self-policing. But any time you need to get validation from a source outside of yourself, there's a great potential for things to turn nasty, quickly.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## J.Quondam

el-remmen said:


> TROGLODYTE TUESDAY HAS ARRIVED ONCE AGAIN!



I think "Troglodyte Tuesday" is my new word for Election Day in the US.
For those for whom it's relevant, remember to *vote* today!


----------



## el-remmen

J.Quondam said:


> I think "Troglodyte Tuesday" is my new word for Election Day in the US.
> For those for whom it's relevant, remember to *vote* today!




For a second I thought I'd posted in the wrong thread! Oh wait, this is always the wrong thread. ..  or is it always the right one?


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> For a second I thought I'd posted in the wrong thread! Oh wait, this is always the wrong thread. ..  or is it always the right one?



Yes.


----------



## darjr

My hatred for pineapple is a comic bit. I figure if I do it enough it’ll start to get funny. Yea, that’s planned.


----------



## payn

Poor planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Poor planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part.




It's less funny when the obstetrician says it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> My hatred for pineapple is a comic bit. I figure if I do it enough it’ll start to get funny. Yea, that’s planned.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's less funny when the obstetrician says it.



But it's HILARIOUS when a proctologist says it.






... I'll see myself out.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> But it's HILARIOUS when a proctologist says it.




Technically, the proctologist said, "Your lack of Preparation H is not my emergency."


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

I'm awarding all of my players inspiration if they vote in today's election, no matter how they vote.

All these races matter, especially the local ones where few people vote (meaning your vote has a big impact) and those folks have a tremendous amount of influence over local life and, sadly, often very little scrutiny.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I feel like I keep saying "my preference" this or that, and I'm being told it's "not supported by D&D" or even "not D&D." Am I not seeing something? I'm willing to say I'm wrong about something if I am.


----------



## prabe

RealAlHazred said:


> I feel like I keep saying "my preference" this or that, and I'm being told it's "not supported by D&D" or even "not D&D." Am I not seeing something? I'm willing to say I'm wrong about something if I am.



I don't know where you're having this interaction--and telling me is breaking a rule, here--but there's "supported" as in "you can do this," and there's "supported" as in "you can find the mechanics for that on page [X]."


----------



## overgeeked

It would be awesome if people would stop pretending they're telepathic.


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> I don't know where you're having this interaction--and telling me is breaking a rule, here--but there's "supported" as in "you can do this," and there's "supported" as in "you can find the mechanics for that on page [X]."



Literally everything I mentioned is supported per the second definition.


----------



## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> It would be awesome if people would stop pretending they're telepathic.



Please let me know when you receive the emoji I just brainwaved to you. You can do so by reacting to this post! 

Er... Kind of defeats the purpose...


----------



## prabe

RealAlHazred said:


> Literally everything I mentioned is supported per the second definition.



Is it in the DMG? No one reads that ...  

Seriously, I have no answer for you, sorry.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> It would be awesome if people would stop pretending they're telepathic.



But then some people's schtick of immediately jumping to the worst possible conclusion would be worthless. WORTHLESS I SAY!


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> But then some people's schtick of immediately jumping to the worst possible conclusion would be worthless. WORTHLESS I SAY!



BUT THIS IS THE INTERNET


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> BUT THIS IS THE INTERNET



Ah, right you are. Everything is worthless.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> But then some people's schtick of immediately jumping to the worst possible conclusion would be worthless. WORTHLESS I SAY!





prabe said:


> BUT THIS IS THE INTERNET



Yeah. I dunno. That might be a good thing. Instantly assuming the worst possible interpretation of every word someone else says and jumping down their throat might not be the best approach to social interaction. Just saying.


Ryujin said:


> Ah, right you are. Everything is worthless.



Nah. Everything in meaningless, not worthless.


----------



## billd91

Well, I tried.


----------



## J.Quondam

overgeeked said:


> It would be awesome if people would stop pretending they're telepathic.




I find it easiest simply to assume that anyone who doesn't read my thoughts is a bone-head.*


_* Hmmm... Or maybe I'm the bone-head? Either way, _someone's_ skull is too dense for the transmissions to penetrate._


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Well, I tried.



Clearly, that was your first mistake.


----------



## Cadence

Mail call.  My first paperback copy fell apart long ago from rereading.  My second hard cover tried, but didn't match up to my annotated Hobbit or deluxe LotR. This one seems nice.


----------



## Mad_Jack

prabe said:


> BUT THIS IS THE INTERNET




 It feels like there should be a "This is Sparta!" meme in here somewhere...


----------



## prabe

Mad_Jack said:


> It feels like there should be a "This is Sparta!" meme in here somewhere...



"This is Sparta!" to the tune of "We are Farmer's" from the insurance commercial.


----------



## overgeeked

If you agree to go to a pizza place for dinner then get bent out of shape when they don’t have filet mignon, then you’re the problem. If you don’t want what’s on the menu, don’t agree to go to the restaurant.


----------



## trappedslider

So with the day being about politics in the US, i'd thought i'd list my favorite political movies in no particular order:

The candidate 
All the President's men
Wag the Dog
Seven Days in May


----------



## payn

overgeeked said:


> If you agree to go to a pizza place for dinner then get bent out of shape when they don’t have filet mignon, then you’re the problem. If you don’t want what’s on the menu, don’t agree to go to the restaurant.



What about filet mignon with a pleasing grit?


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> So with the day being about politics in the US, i'd thought i'd list my favorite political movies in no particular order:
> 
> The candidate
> All the President's men
> Wag the Dog
> Seven Days in May



"Wag the Dog"


----------



## darjr

You gotta look at the pizza before you take a big bite and complain. Just look at it!


----------



## eyeheartawk

I think the best political movie is Conan the Barbarian. I think all losers should get their heads cut off and thrown down the stairs and then all their supporters just leave in silence and the movie ends. 

If you need more political consultancy my going rate is $5,000 an hour paid in small untraceable bills.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> "Wag the Dog"


----------



## prabe

If that's not a proxy question, it'll inevitably become one.


----------



## CleverNickName

Feels like they could have made it "Getting a Raise" vs. "Getting a Root Canal," and the results would still be a lot closer than you'd think.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> Feels like they could have made it "Getting a Raise" vs. "Getting a Root Canal," and the results would still be a lot closer than you'd think.



Once people took sides, yeah.


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> Once people took sides, yeah.



I guess I just grossly underestimated the amount of dental problems in the world today.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I guess I just grossly underestimated the amount of dental problems in the world today.



Or the amount of masochism.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


>



Sorry, reading comprehension (or ability) issue.


----------



## RealAlHazred

*Thread Mimic*
_Tiny monstrosity (shapechanger), neutral_




*Armor Class *20 (natural armor)
*Hit Points* 31 (9d4 + 9)
*Speed *5 ft., 360 ft. in the Internet




  STR      DEX     CON     INT     WIS     CHA
 6 (-2)  20 (+5) 12 (+1) 6 (-2) 15 (+2) 12 (+1)




*Skills *Stealth +5
*Damage Immunities* necrotic
*Condition Immunities* prone
*Senses *blindsight 60 ft., Passive Perception 11
*Languages *--
*Challenge *2 (450 XP)                                       *Proficiency Bonus* +2




_*Shapechanger.*_ The mimic can use its action to polymorph into a forum thread or back into its true, amorphous form. Its statistics are the same in each form. It reverts to its true form if it dies.

_*Entangling (Thread Form Only).*_ The mimic entangles anyone who engages it. A Huge or smaller creature entangled with the mimic is also restrained by it (escape DC 15). Ability checks made to escape this grapple (only Intelligence-, Wisdom-, or Charisma-based checks permitted) have disadvantage.

_*False Appearance (Thread Form Only).*_ While the mimic remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from an ordinary forum thread.

*Actions*
_*Pseudopod.* Melee Spell Attack:_ +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target currently reading the thread. _Hit:_ 7 (1d4 + 5) psychic damage. If the mimic is in thread form, the target is subjected to its Entangling trait.

_*Neurovore.* Melee Spell Attack:_ +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target currently reading the thread. _Hit:_ 7 (1d4 + 5) psychic damage plus 4 (1d8) necrotic damage.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Sorry, reading comprehension (or ability) issue.



It's the title of a movie and book, I'm just confused why you put quotes around it but not the others.


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> Feels like they could have made it "Getting a Raise" vs. "Getting a Root Canal," and the results would still be a lot closer than you'd think.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> ....




I mean, puppies are awesome, but I have been planning on losing weight ....


----------



## eyeheartawk

May as well have made that vote between getting a puppy or drinking apple juice.


----------



## CleverNickName

Unfortunately, apple juice never made it onto the ballot.  Everyone heard that apples are terrible Halloween candy and panicked.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Unfortunately, apple juice never made it onto the ballot.  Everyone heard that apples are terrible Halloween candy and panicked.



Look, I well remember getting an apple on Halloween in the 80s, and when we got home and opened it up, it had a recursive generational joke inside! You can't be too careful!


----------



## prabe

RealAlHazred said:


> Look, I well remember getting an apple on Halloween in the 80s, and when we got home and opened it up, it had a recursive generational joke inside! You can't be too careful!



Did you do your trick-or-treating uphill, in the snow?


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> Did you do your trick-or-treating uphill, in the snow?



It was uphill both ways! Heck, one time I had to go trick-or-treating on the surface of the Sun!


----------



## Gradine

You joke about people voting for obviously terrible outcomes but "every dialysis patient deserves access to a doctor and can't be turned away to die if they can't pay" can't seem to pick up more than 30% of the vote in my state


----------



## overgeeked

Hippos gonna crit.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I mean, puppies are awesome, but I have been planning on losing weight ....




Been there, done that. I personally don't recommend it as a weight loss solution.

I mean, sure, when I got scarlet fever as a teenager I dropped twenty pounds in under two weeks, but it was definitely NOT a case of the ends justifying the means...


----------



## Cadence

Gradine said:


> You joke about people voting for obviously terrible outcomes but "every dialysis patient deserves access to a doctor and can't be turned away to die if they can't pay" can't seem to pick up more than 30% of the vote in my state



I would like for whoever is DMing politics to stop making it a railroad to the absolute worst.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> I would like for whoever is DMing politics to stop making it a railroad to the absolute worst.



I think the GM advertised a Star Trek campaign, but pulled a bait-n-switch to run a dystopian Mad Max-style game.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> You joke about people voting for obviously terrible outcomes but "every dialysis patient deserves access to a doctor and can't be turned away to die if they can't pay" can't seem to pick up more than 30% of the vote in my state


----------



## Scribe

"If you do not allow me to order pineapple pizza, in your steak house, you personally are attacking me and I will judge not only your character, but your entire world view." 

I see nothing has changed in the last few months.


----------



## CleverNickName

"THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!  I DEMAND YOU PUT PINEAPPLE ON EVERY PIZZA!"
"Sir, this is a Wendy's."


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!  I DEMAND YOU PUT PINEAPPLE ON EVERY PIZZA!"
> "Sir, this is a Wendy's."


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> I would like for whoever is DMing politics to stop making it a railroad to the absolute worst.




*Mod Note:*
Can we cut the politics talk, please and thanks?


----------



## Galandris

RealAlHazred said:


> Look, I well remember getting an apple




Ah, in my parts it was an orange.


----------



## MarkB

Galandris said:


> Ah, in my parts it was an orange.



That can be pretty painful if they have a good throwing arm.


----------



## RealAlHazred

MarkB said:


> That can be pretty painful if they have a good throwing arm.



Or put a bunch of them in a sack to beat you with.


----------



## trappedslider

RealAlHazred said:


> Look, I well remember getting an apple on Halloween in the 80s, and when we got home and opened it up, it had a recursive generational joke inside! You can't be too careful!


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> It's the title of a movie and book, I'm just confused why you put quotes around it but not the others.



Because I completely spaced on it already being listed.


----------



## Deset Gled

trappedslider said:


>




We actually gave out rocks this year. 

To be more specific, we give out candy for trick-or-treaters but also have a small bucket of non-food items with things like bubble makers or other cheap toys for real little kids or anyone who just doesn't really want candy. This year, one of the items my spouse bought online for it was a bag of uncut geodes. They were fairly poplar. Some of the older kids definitely picked the geode just to make this joke.


----------



## billd91

Pretty sure I just saw a post that was, effectively, "neener, neener" like I was on a grade school yard.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Today's True Facts:

1. Neither Jeffrey Dahmer nor Tim Allen are known D&D Players.

2. Neither Jeffrey Dahmer nor Tim Allen ever spoke out against pineapple on pizza.

Now, am I implying anything? Of course not. But I am also not going to come to your house and smack that inference out of your head.


----------



## darjr

Had a parent call about the “coffee” candies we gave out. 

She said her kid loved em and where did we get them?

Well they were candied hazelnuts and are from Japan, see we ran out of candy and had to dig into Moms emergency stash. Some kids got some really weird candy from us.

She also said the wine we gave out to parents was great too. I did t know we did that, but I guess we did? Cool.


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Pretty sure I just saw a post that was, effectively, "neener, neener" like I was on a grade school yard.




Welcome to the internet, where we prove that, ultimately, we are monkeys with cell phones.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> Welcome to the internet, where we prove that, ultimately, we are monkeys with cell phones.



I’m a gorilla with a cell phone thank you very much.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> I’m a gorilla with a cell phone thank you very much.




Thus proving my point, thank you


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> Welcome to the internet, where we prove that, ultimately, we are *monkeys* with cell phones.






darjr said:


> I’m a* gorilla* with a cell phone thank you very much.





* Barbary macaque excluded.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> I’m a gorilla with a cell phone thank you very much.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> Welcome to the internet, where we prove that, ultimately, we are monkeys with cell phones.



Three monkeys, ten minutes.


----------



## trappedslider

Umbran said:


> Welcome to the internet, where we prove that, ultimately, we are monkeys with cell phones.



I'm really three otters in a trench coat.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> I'm really three otters in a trench coat.


----------



## darjr

Like clockwork. Gotta stop by and pee in the pool. 

Cheese Louis find a hobby will ya?


----------



## Davies

darjr said:


> She also said the wine we gave out to parents was great too. I did t know we did that, but I guess we did? Cool.



It is not unlikely that, a week later, their memories of where they got what are somewhat confused.


----------



## darjr

Davies said:


> It is not unlikely that, a week later, their memories of where they got what are somewhat confused.



Well then I hope the house that did do it isn’t upset with us cause we are getting the credit and now kinda sorta have to do it next year.

Also if it’s freezing is warm wine a thing?


----------



## eyeheartawk

darjr said:


> Also if it’s freezing is warm wine a thing?



Yeah


----------



## payn

darjr said:


> Well then I hope the house that did do it isn’t upset with us cause we are getting the credit and now kinda sorta have to do it next year.
> 
> Also if it’s freezing is warm wine a thing?



Mulled Wine​Cocktail

Description​Mulled wine, also known as spiced wine, is an alcoholic drink usually made with red wine, along with various mulling spices and sometimes raisins, served hot or warm. It is a traditional drink during winter, especially around Christmas. It is usually served at Christmas markets in Europe, primarily in Germany. Wikipedia

edit:ninja'd


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> edit:ninja'd


----------



## Ryujin

darjr said:


> I’m a gorilla with a cell phone thank you very much.



Monkey... Ape... It's all the same, give or take a % of DNA.


----------



## Ryujin




----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> Monkey... Ape... It's all the same, give or take a % of DNA.



Zaphod?! Is that you!?!!

Where’s my spaceship!!!?!!


----------



## CleverNickName

*Hot Spiced Wine*

_What you need:_
2 bottles of your favorite red wine
About 1/2 cup brown sugar, more or less to taste.
3 or 4 cinnamon sticks
A star of anise, or two
1 whole lemon or orange, studded with a dozen whole cloves (makes them easier to avoid...nobody wants a whole clove in their mug)
Brandy

_What you do:_
Put everything except the brandy into a slow cooker.
Heat gently for several hours, the longer the better.
Pour into a punch bowl.  Or don't, it's your party.
Stir in as much brandy as you like.
Serve.


----------



## darjr

All right then. Who is coming over?

Oh I have been told that it was indeed us.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> *Hot Spiced Wine*




*Hot Spiced Wine* (The Approved Snarf Zagyg Recipe)

_What you need:_
2 bottles of the cheapest red wine you can find (Night Train? Boone's Farm? Whatevs)
About 1/2 cup brown sugar, and then another 1/2 cup, and then 2 more cups.
3 or 4 cinnamon sticks ... HA! Just grab that big jug of cinnamon powder you bought 15 years ago and shake until you're bored
Three melted black twizzlers
1 whole lemon or orange, or both, or a lime. Or all three. Heck, maybe you have a pear? Pears are kinda citrus, right?
Brandy
Eggnog
Whisky
Gin

_What you do:_
Put everything except the brandy, eggnog, whisky, and gin and into a slow cooker.
Invite your friends and family over for mulled wine.
Heat gently for several hours, the longer the better.
Of course, everyone will be complaining. "Where's this mulled wine you're talkin' bout, Snarf?"
Pour yourself some gin. Drink it.
Can you still hear those ingrates complaining? Pour 'em some eggnog. And whisky. 3 parts whisky to 1 part eggnog. That will shut 'em up.
Drink more gin.
Hey, what happened to the mulled wine? Is it done? Who cares! Pour it into the eggnog whisky mix those whiny people are drinking.
The gin is gone? Start drinking the brandy while people complain about the mulled wine in their eggnog.
....Just remember, you don't have to do this again for another year.


----------



## RealAlHazred

EDIT: Nah, that joke's too labored even for me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> EDIT: Nah, that joke's too labored even for me.




You should send it to me for my use. 

No joke, and I mean _no joke _is too labored for me. 

True story: I once told a 45 minute story just for the satisfaction of a "Dad joke" punchline. And I regret NOTHING.


----------



## CleverNickName

"Hey, D&D is a very flexible game.  It can be as fun as you want it to be!"

"Oh yeah?  Well what if I don't _want it _to be fun, huh?  What _then, _wiseguy?!"


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> True story: I once told a 45 minute story just for the satisfaction of a "Dad joke" punchline. And I regret NOTHING.



THAT'S all you do? Bird imitations?


----------



## trappedslider

It was self-defense, Kennedy shot first! Wake up sheeple!


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> THAT'S all you do? Bird imitations?













Spoiler


----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 266425



Mondays, am I right?


----------



## Mad_Jack

Deset Gled said:


> We actually gave out rocks this year.




  One of the many reasons I like Reaper Miniatures is that during October if you order a certain $ amount of stuff, you get a free "ghoulie bag" that contains some candy and either a free miniature... or a rock. 
Getting a rock in my ghoulie bag instead of a miniature always makes me ridiculously happy for some reason. 




Snarf Zagyg said:


> 2. Neither Jeffrey Dahmer nor Tim Allen ever spoke out against pineapple on pizza.




 And now someone somewhere is intently poring through everything Tim Allen has ever publicly said to fact-check this...


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 266425




 That's usually how I feel when I wake up in the morning. It takes me about half an hour to assemble myself into something resembling a human being...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> And now someone somewhere is intently poring through everything Tim Allen has ever publicly said to fact-check this...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


>




 Mainly because I'm bored. And procrastinating. And your post was there...
 I.e., for the same reasons I ever do anything.


----------



## darjr

Is that pineapple on my pizza?!

What? No that’s pepperoni!

Oh but you put it there then removed it!


----------



## gban007

Well, suspected a thread like that would bring out certain opinions, but still disappointed to see them, ah well, ignore function does come in handy sometimes.


----------



## Umbran

Sometimes, the job is satisfying.


----------



## payn

gban007 said:


> Well, suspected a thread like that would bring out certain opinions, but still disappointed to see them, ah well, ignore function does come in handy sometimes.



Dayum, you were not kiddin.


----------



## CleverNickName

I passed my Wisdom save, didn't leave a comment in that Other Thread.
But holy dogwhistle, Batman.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Me going into the Other Thread:


----------



## J.Quondam

_* types furiously for 20 minutes *

* deletes everything just typed *

* posts an emoji in the 'didn't comment' thread, instead *_


----------



## Hussar

Well, that's progress.  Instead of things turning into a trash fire with dozens of posters in a matter of minutes, it turned into a trash fire with a couple of posters and one sock puppet in a matter of hours.

That is progress of a sort.

Also, @Umbran, your post above made me laugh very loudly much to the annoyance of the people around me.  Shame on you.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Wow, he keeps digging the hole deeper.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Spoiler




Absolute classic


----------



## Scribe

Sometimes, the irony is simply too thick.


----------



## J.Quondam

Scribe said:


> Sometimes, the irony is simply too thick.



It's not just the irony that's thick.


----------



## Umbran

RealAlHazred said:


> Three monkeys, ten minutes.




That's not nearly enough to get the works of Shakespeare.


----------



## Cadence

Umbran said:


> That's not nearly enough to get the works of Shakespeare.




Most of the posts on here aren't exactly...


----------



## Galandris

Scribe said:


> Sometimes, the irony is simply too thick.




This. But I think it's another level of irony _above_ what you said.


----------



## payn

People keep asking me if John Wick movies are bad?

Yeah...I think they are bad.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> People keep asking me if John Wick movies are bad?
> 
> Yeah...I think they are bad.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


>




You don't even know the plot, do you?

That's right. John Wick has learned that there is _another Skarsgård _in Hollywood. If John Wick doesn't act soon, there won't be any jobs left for non-Skarsgård actors. This is an existential crisis.


----------



## darjr

You weren’t supposed to eat any of the pizza or even take a bite! Just go “yum!” and pass it on to the next fool.

If you ate any you’d know it’s bad.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You don't even know the plot, do you?
> 
> That's right. John Wick has learned that there is _another Skarsgård _in Hollywood. If John Wick doesn't act soon, there won't be any jobs left for non-Skarsgård actors. This is an existential crisis.



Hey, we survived the Baldwins, we will survive the _Skarsgårds._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AnotherGuy said:


> Hey, we survived the Baldwins, we will survive the _Skarsgårds._




The Baldwins are still around ....

so what you're saying is ....

_John Wick, Chapter 5. Alec, Stephen, and, um, the other ones._

I have already bought the ticket.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I just want to see Werner Herzog direct one of the _John Wick_ movies...


----------



## Scribe

J.Quondam said:


> It's not just the irony that's thick.



That's a different thread...


----------



## overgeeked

More rules, more rules lawyers.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> I just want to see Werner Herzog direct one of the _John Wick_ movies...




I wouldn't mind seeing Wes Anderson take a shot ...

_The Grand Continental Hotel_, a film by Wes Anderson.


----------



## Deset Gled

RealAlHazred said:


> I just want to see Werner Herzog direct one of the _John Wick_ movies...




Who Said It: Werner Herzog, or a John Wick Movie:

"Consider your origins, you were not made to live as brutes, but to follow virtue and knowledge."

"I’m not into the culture of complaint. I roll up my sleeves and somehow I get it together."

"We had mutual respect for each other, even as we both planned each other’s murder."

"Get used to the bear behind you."

"There’s no rhyme or reason to this life. It’s days like today scattered among the rest."

"People don’t change. You know that. Times, they do."

"If you want peace, prepare for war."

"Rules. Without them, we live with the animals."

"I am torn between the beauty of the natural world, which you see all around us, and the idea that some dumb tornado could blow a telephone pole onto my sweet Camaro."

"Every man should pull a boat over a mountain once in his life."


----------



## el-remmen

I can't believe I read the whole thread.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I have to admit, watching the whole FTX thing the last few days ....

Schadenfreude is my favorite freude. 

What can I say? I have never claimed to be a perfect person. _thinking _Y'all already knew that, didn't you?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I have to admit, watching the whole FTX thing the last few days ....
> 
> Schadenfreude is my favorite freude.
> 
> What can I say? I have never claimed to be a perfect person. _thinking _Y'all already knew that, didn't you?



I think that I hit my peak schadenfreude when a Canadian crypto guy died and left his clients without access to $250M of their 'assets.' Then came the audits, uncovering of fraud, and even conspiracy theories that he had You Only Live Twiced himself.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> I think that I hit my peak schadenfreude when a Canadian crypto guy died and left his clients without access to $250M of their 'assets.' Then came the audits, uncovering of fraud, and even conspiracy theories that he had You Only Live Twiced himself.




There have already been so many "peak" moments.

To me, this was the combination of two things-

1. This is the actual quote in an interview from Bankman-Fried (the FTX guy):


Spoiler: LONG



_Let me give you sort of like a really toy model of it, which I actually think has a surprising amount of legitimacy for what farming could mean. You know, where do you start? You start with a company that builds a box and in practice this box, they probably dress it up to look like a life-changing, you know, world-altering protocol that's gonna replace all the big banks in 38 days or whatever. *Maybe for now actually ignore what it does or pretend it does literally nothing. It's just a box.* So what this protocol is, it's called ‘Protocol X,’ it's a box, and you take a token. You can take ethereum, you can put it in the box and you take it out of the box. Alright so, you put it into the box and you get like, you know, an IOU for having put it in the box and then you can redeem that IOU back out for the token.

So far what we've described is the world's dumbest ETF or ADR or something like that. It doesn't do anything but let you put things in it if you so choose. And then this protocol issues a token, we'll call it whatever, ‘X token.’ And X token promises that anything cool that happens because of this box is going to ultimately be usable by, you know, governance vote of holders of the X tokens. They can vote on what to do with any proceeds or other cool things that happen from this box. And of course, so far, we haven't exactly given a compelling reason for why there ever would be any proceeds from this box, but I don't know, you know, maybe there will be, so that's sort of where you start.

And then you say, alright, well, you’ve got this box and you’ve got X token and the box protocol declares, or maybe votes by on-chain governance, or, you know, something like that, that what they're gonna do is they are going to take half of all the X tokens that were re-minted. Maybe two thirds will, two thirds will offer X tokens, *and they're going to give them away for free to whoever uses the box*. So anyone who goes, takes some money, puts in the box, each day they're gonna airdrop, you know, 1% of the X token pro rata amongst everyone who's put money in the box. That's for now, what X token does, it gets given away to the box people. And now what happens? Well, X token has some market cap, right? It's probably not zero. Let say it's, *you know, a $20 million market* …

Describe it this way, you might think, for instance, that in like five minutes with an internet connection, you could create such a box and such a token, and that it should reflect like, you know, it should be worth like $180 or something market cap for like that, you know, that effort that you put into it. In the world that we're in, if you do this, everyone's gonna be like, ‘Ooh, box token. Maybe it's cool. If you buy in box token,’ you know, that's gonna appear on Twitter and it’ll have a $20 million market cap. And of course, one thing that you could do is you could like make the float very low and whatever, you know, maybe there haven't been $20 million dollars that have flowed into it yet. Maybe that's sort of like, is it, you know, mark to market fully diluted valuation or something, but I acknowledge that it's not totally clear that this thing should have market cap,* but empirically I claim it would have market cap*. ...

That's right. So, and obviously already we're sort of hiding some of the magic impact, right? Like some of the magic is in like, how do you get that market cap to start with, but, you know, whatever we're gonna move on from that for a second. So, you know, X tokens [are] being given out each day, all these like sophisticated firms are like, huh, that's interesting. Like if the total amount of money in the box is a hundred million dollars, then it's going to yield $16 million this year in X tokens being given out for it. That's a 16% return. That's pretty good. We'll put a little bit more in, right? And maybe that happens until there are $200 million dollars in the box. So, you know, sophisticated traders and/or people on Crypto Twitter, or other sort of similar parties, go and put $200 million in the box collectively and they start getting these X tokens for it.

And now all of a sudden everyone's like, wow, people just decide to put $200 million in the box. This is a pretty cool box, right? Like this is a valuable box as demonstrated by all the money that people have apparently decided should be in the box. *And who are we to say that they're wrong about that?* Like, you know, this is, I mean boxes can be great. Look, I love boxes as much as the next guy. And so what happens now? All of a sudden people are kind of recalibrating like, well, $20 million, that's it? Like that market cap for this box? And it's been like 48 hours and it already is $200 million, including from like sophisticated players in it. They're like, come on, that's too low. And they look at these ratios, TVL, total value locked in the box, you know, as a ratio to market cap of the box’s token.

And they’re like ‘10X’ that's insane. 1X is the norm.’ And so then, you know, X token price goes way up. And now it's $130 million market cap token because of, you know, the bullishness of people's usage of the box. And now all of a sudden of course, the smart money's like, oh, wow, this thing's now yielding like 60% a year in X tokens. Of course I'll take my 60% yield, right? *So they go and pour another $300 million in the box and you get a psych and then it goes to infinity. And then everyone makes money.*_



I just want to reiterate- this is what he was saying. He explained it. And even better, he understood it. He huckstered himself.


2. Even better- there was no reason for _FTX_ to fail. That's the funniest part. FTX was an exchange. They had no reason to fail- they made money by other people buying and selling crypto. Period. Then they got involved in loans (which ... that's more problematic, but whatever). But the reason they failed wasn't because they were a crypto market, it's because at a fundamental level, everyone involved is trying to scam each other and make a quick buck. Bankman-Fried used his hedge fund to invest in FTX, while propping both up with his own crypto currency. It's turtles, all the way down, except ... instead of turtles, it's crypto BS, which reeks of buzzwords and whatever passes for "expensive" Axe body wash, I'm sure.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There have already been so many "peak" moments.
> 
> To me, this was the combination of two things-
> 
> 1. This is the actual quote in an interview from Bankman-Fried (the FTX guy):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: LONG
> 
> 
> 
> _Let me give you sort of like a really toy model of it, which I actually think has a surprising amount of legitimacy for what farming could mean. You know, where do you start? You start with a company that builds a box and in practice this box, they probably dress it up to look like a life-changing, you know, world-altering protocol that's gonna replace all the big banks in 38 days or whatever. *Maybe for now actually ignore what it does or pretend it does literally nothing. It's just a box.* So what this protocol is, it's called ‘Protocol X,’ it's a box, and you take a token. You can take ethereum, you can put it in the box and you take it out of the box. Alright so, you put it into the box and you get like, you know, an IOU for having put it in the box and then you can redeem that IOU back out for the token.
> 
> So far what we've described is the world's dumbest ETF or ADR or something like that. It doesn't do anything but let you put things in it if you so choose. And then this protocol issues a token, we'll call it whatever, ‘X token.’ And X token promises that anything cool that happens because of this box is going to ultimately be usable by, you know, governance vote of holders of the X tokens. They can vote on what to do with any proceeds or other cool things that happen from this box. And of course, so far, we haven't exactly given a compelling reason for why there ever would be any proceeds from this box, but I don't know, you know, maybe there will be, so that's sort of where you start.
> 
> And then you say, alright, well, you’ve got this box and you’ve got X token and the box protocol declares, or maybe votes by on-chain governance, or, you know, something like that, that what they're gonna do is they are going to take half of all the X tokens that were re-minted. Maybe two thirds will, two thirds will offer X tokens, *and they're going to give them away for free to whoever uses the box*. So anyone who goes, takes some money, puts in the box, each day they're gonna airdrop, you know, 1% of the X token pro rata amongst everyone who's put money in the box. That's for now, what X token does, it gets given away to the box people. And now what happens? Well, X token has some market cap, right? It's probably not zero. Let say it's, *you know, a $20 million market* …
> 
> Describe it this way, you might think, for instance, that in like five minutes with an internet connection, you could create such a box and such a token, and that it should reflect like, you know, it should be worth like $180 or something market cap for like that, you know, that effort that you put into it. In the world that we're in, if you do this, everyone's gonna be like, ‘Ooh, box token. Maybe it's cool. If you buy in box token,’ you know, that's gonna appear on Twitter and it’ll have a $20 million market cap. And of course, one thing that you could do is you could like make the float very low and whatever, you know, maybe there haven't been $20 million dollars that have flowed into it yet. Maybe that's sort of like, is it, you know, mark to market fully diluted valuation or something, but I acknowledge that it's not totally clear that this thing should have market cap,* but empirically I claim it would have market cap*. ...
> 
> That's right. So, and obviously already we're sort of hiding some of the magic impact, right? Like some of the magic is in like, how do you get that market cap to start with, but, you know, whatever we're gonna move on from that for a second. So, you know, X tokens [are] being given out each day, all these like sophisticated firms are like, huh, that's interesting. Like if the total amount of money in the box is a hundred million dollars, then it's going to yield $16 million this year in X tokens being given out for it. That's a 16% return. That's pretty good. We'll put a little bit more in, right? And maybe that happens until there are $200 million dollars in the box. So, you know, sophisticated traders and/or people on Crypto Twitter, or other sort of similar parties, go and put $200 million in the box collectively and they start getting these X tokens for it.
> 
> And now all of a sudden everyone's like, wow, people just decide to put $200 million in the box. This is a pretty cool box, right? Like this is a valuable box as demonstrated by all the money that people have apparently decided should be in the box. *And who are we to say that they're wrong about that?* Like, you know, this is, I mean boxes can be great. Look, I love boxes as much as the next guy. And so what happens now? All of a sudden people are kind of recalibrating like, well, $20 million, that's it? Like that market cap for this box? And it's been like 48 hours and it already is $200 million, including from like sophisticated players in it. They're like, come on, that's too low. And they look at these ratios, TVL, total value locked in the box, you know, as a ratio to market cap of the box’s token.
> 
> And they’re like ‘10X’ that's insane. 1X is the norm.’ And so then, you know, X token price goes way up. And now it's $130 million market cap token because of, you know, the bullishness of people's usage of the box. And now all of a sudden of course, the smart money's like, oh, wow, this thing's now yielding like 60% a year in X tokens. Of course I'll take my 60% yield, right? *So they go and pour another $300 million in the box and you get a psych and then it goes to infinity. And then everyone makes money.*_
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to reiterate- this is what he was saying. He explained it. And even better, he understood it. He huckstered himself.
> 
> 
> 2. Even better- there was no reason for _FTX_ to fail. That's the funniest part. FTX was an exchange. They had no reason to fail- they made money by other people buying and selling crypto. Period. Then they got involved in loans (which ... that's more problematic, but whatever). But the reason they failed wasn't because they were a crypto market, it's because at a fundamental, everyone involved is trying to scam each other and make a quick buck. Bankman-Fried used his hedge fund to invest in FTX, while propping both up with his own crypto currency. It's turtles, all the way down, except ... instead of turtles, it's crypto BS, which reeks of buzzwords and whatever passes for "expensive" Axe body wash, I'm sure.



Holy...   That feels like an Onion thing...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Holy...   That feels like an Onion thing...




I know! And yet ... there are (were, I guess at this point) people defending this BS. Really! Saying other people were just "too dumb" to understand.

As long as more fresh money is coming in, things work out. And that's true in anything, from stock markets to Ponzi schemes. It's when the money starts pulling out that you have to worry about whether you have something of value (like a share of stock of a company that has assets) or .... a "box that literally does nothing."


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> There have already been so many "peak" moments.
> 
> To me, this was the combination of two things-
> 
> 1. This is the actual quote in an interview from Bankman-Fried (the FTX guy):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: LONG
> 
> 
> 
> _Let me give you sort of like a really toy model of it, which I actually think has a surprising amount of legitimacy for what farming could mean. You know, where do you start? You start with a company that builds a box and in practice this box, they probably dress it up to look like a life-changing, you know, world-altering protocol that's gonna replace all the big banks in 38 days or whatever. *Maybe for now actually ignore what it does or pretend it does literally nothing. It's just a box.* So what this protocol is, it's called ‘Protocol X,’ it's a box, and you take a token. You can take ethereum, you can put it in the box and you take it out of the box. Alright so, you put it into the box and you get like, you know, an IOU for having put it in the box and then you can redeem that IOU back out for the token.
> 
> So far what we've described is the world's dumbest ETF or ADR or something like that. It doesn't do anything but let you put things in it if you so choose. And then this protocol issues a token, we'll call it whatever, ‘X token.’ And X token promises that anything cool that happens because of this box is going to ultimately be usable by, you know, governance vote of holders of the X tokens. They can vote on what to do with any proceeds or other cool things that happen from this box. And of course, so far, we haven't exactly given a compelling reason for why there ever would be any proceeds from this box, but I don't know, you know, maybe there will be, so that's sort of where you start.
> 
> And then you say, alright, well, you’ve got this box and you’ve got X token and the box protocol declares, or maybe votes by on-chain governance, or, you know, something like that, that what they're gonna do is they are going to take half of all the X tokens that were re-minted. Maybe two thirds will, two thirds will offer X tokens, *and they're going to give them away for free to whoever uses the box*. So anyone who goes, takes some money, puts in the box, each day they're gonna airdrop, you know, 1% of the X token pro rata amongst everyone who's put money in the box. That's for now, what X token does, it gets given away to the box people. And now what happens? Well, X token has some market cap, right? It's probably not zero. Let say it's, *you know, a $20 million market* …
> 
> Describe it this way, you might think, for instance, that in like five minutes with an internet connection, you could create such a box and such a token, and that it should reflect like, you know, it should be worth like $180 or something market cap for like that, you know, that effort that you put into it. In the world that we're in, if you do this, everyone's gonna be like, ‘Ooh, box token. Maybe it's cool. If you buy in box token,’ you know, that's gonna appear on Twitter and it’ll have a $20 million market cap. And of course, one thing that you could do is you could like make the float very low and whatever, you know, maybe there haven't been $20 million dollars that have flowed into it yet. Maybe that's sort of like, is it, you know, mark to market fully diluted valuation or something, but I acknowledge that it's not totally clear that this thing should have market cap,* but empirically I claim it would have market cap*. ...
> 
> That's right. So, and obviously already we're sort of hiding some of the magic impact, right? Like some of the magic is in like, how do you get that market cap to start with, but, you know, whatever we're gonna move on from that for a second. So, you know, X tokens [are] being given out each day, all these like sophisticated firms are like, huh, that's interesting. Like if the total amount of money in the box is a hundred million dollars, then it's going to yield $16 million this year in X tokens being given out for it. That's a 16% return. That's pretty good. We'll put a little bit more in, right? And maybe that happens until there are $200 million dollars in the box. So, you know, sophisticated traders and/or people on Crypto Twitter, or other sort of similar parties, go and put $200 million in the box collectively and they start getting these X tokens for it.
> 
> And now all of a sudden everyone's like, wow, people just decide to put $200 million in the box. This is a pretty cool box, right? Like this is a valuable box as demonstrated by all the money that people have apparently decided should be in the box. *And who are we to say that they're wrong about that?* Like, you know, this is, I mean boxes can be great. Look, I love boxes as much as the next guy. And so what happens now? All of a sudden people are kind of recalibrating like, well, $20 million, that's it? Like that market cap for this box? And it's been like 48 hours and it already is $200 million, including from like sophisticated players in it. They're like, come on, that's too low. And they look at these ratios, TVL, total value locked in the box, you know, as a ratio to market cap of the box’s token.
> 
> And they’re like ‘10X’ that's insane. 1X is the norm.’ And so then, you know, X token price goes way up. And now it's $130 million market cap token because of, you know, the bullishness of people's usage of the box. And now all of a sudden of course, the smart money's like, oh, wow, this thing's now yielding like 60% a year in X tokens. Of course I'll take my 60% yield, right? *So they go and pour another $300 million in the box and you get a psych and then it goes to infinity. And then everyone makes money.*_
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to reiterate- this is what he was saying. He explained it. And even better, he understood it. He huckstered himself.
> 
> 
> 2. Even better- there was no reason for _FTX_ to fail. That's the funniest part. FTX was an exchange. They had no reason to fail- they made money by other people buying and selling crypto. Period. Then they got involved in loans (which ... that's more problematic, but whatever). But the reason they failed wasn't because they were a crypto market, it's because at a fundamental level, everyone involved is trying to scam each other and make a quick buck. Bankman-Fried used his hedge fund to invest in FTX, while propping both up with his own crypto currency. It's turtles, all the way down, except ... instead of turtles, it's crypto BS, which reeks of buzzwords and whatever passes for "expensive" Axe body wash, I'm sure.



That these guys can suck people in, while telling them that they're being sucked in, is what has always confused me about the whole crypto market. Same with how everything went into the toilet in 2008. I mean, who would have ever expected a piece of paper, based on a piece of paper, that was based on a piece of paper, that was based on a loan that was, by design, intended to lose money would ever result in a loss?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I know! And yet ... there are (were, I guess at this point) people defending this BS. Really! Saying other people were just "too dumb" to understand.
> 
> As long as more fresh money is coming in, things work out. And that's true in anything, from stock markets to Ponzi schemes. It's when the money starts pulling out that you have to worry about whether you have something of value (like a share of stock of a company that has assets) or .... a "box that literally does nothing."



Well the box does actually do something. It burns electrons and costs a fortune in electric power bills. We've actually kicked people out of school for trying to set our labs up as crypto-mining facilities.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I would love, love, love it if FTX's collapse was definitively due to the inherent flaws in the concept of cryptocurrency. However, the ultimate cause of the failure was the CEO of Binance, CZ (what is it with these guys going only by their initials?), pointing out the SBF's hedge fund held a large amount of FTT (FTX's tokens), and that, if they used the tokens as collateral, that would be a weak position; then CZ started dumping his FTT. Then, other people who listen to CZ's Twitter (I guess that makes them Twits?) also dumped their FTT. And, eventually, as is inevitable if you don't have cash reserves to cover all of your tokens (which no one does) FTX couldn't cover all of the withdrawals. That led to a panic, which led to a collapse, and wash, rinse, and repeat, it's the tulip bulb fiasco all over again. Well, they got me with the tulip bulbs, I'll be damned if they get me with the modern equivalent...

EDIT: Oh, and if anyone is willing to offer me 200 silver florins cash for a _Semper Augustus_ bulb, let me know.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> That these guys can suck people in, while telling them that they're being sucked in, is what has always confused me about the whole crypto market.




Richard Gere explained it in Chicago...


----------



## trappedslider

I wonder how long that back and forth will least


----------



## Ryujin

I was today years old when I found out that there is, in fact, a place called Fountain, Pennsylvania.


----------



## CleverNickName

Well then.  I guess that answers the question about the mahogany desks.


----------



## Cadence

Wrong thread.


----------



## Davies

Hot take: Arguments about what constitute the canon of a given media property are not only uninteresting to most of those who enjoy that property, but actually destructive to that enjoyment in many cases.


----------



## MarkB

Davies said:


> Hot take: Arguments about what constitute the canon of a given media property are not only uninteresting to most of those who enjoy that property, but actually destructive to that enjoyment in many cases.



Plus, if you're already disagreeing with someone as to whether a show or movie is faithful to the canon or not, you're certainly not going to be able to convince them to accept a new definition of what is or isn't canon in the first place.


----------



## Ryujin

Bah, humbug! Who says that Scrooge didn't have the Solid Gold Dancers backing him up? Fight me!


----------



## Scribe

...

I need a 'Didnt comment in the didnt comment' thread, STAT.


----------



## Galandris

And so the thread was revealed to be a deviously smart ploy by management to out twitter-level trolls, while cashing in from all the ads viewed.


----------



## overgeeked

No game, no metagaming.


----------



## J.Quondam

Nah... nvm.


----------



## Gradine

Wow, remarkable how much more interesting and constructive a thread gets when it's not filled to the brim with replies to posts I've blocked.


----------



## BookTenTiger

Today I succeeded on my Wisdom saving throw and did not post in that thread.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> I was today years old when I found out that there is, in fact, a place called Fountain, Pennsylvania.




 Fun Fact: "Happyland" is not just the name of the kids playground area at your local McDonald's... But it is about the same size, lol.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mad_Jack said:


> Fun Fact: "Happyland" is not just the name of the kids playground area at your local McDonald's... But it is about the same size, lol.
> 
> View attachment 266519




Funner fact. Happyland, Connecticut is an oxymoron.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Funner fact. Happyland, Connecticut is an oxymoron.




 Yes, it is... I've been there. It's literally no happier than any other small middle-class neighborhood in the area.

Even Funner Fact: Snarf hates Connecticut because it downvoted one of his Twitter posts once.


----------



## Umbran

Davies said:


> Hot take: Arguments about what constitute the canon of a given media property are not only uninteresting to most of those who enjoy that property, but actually destructive to that enjoyment in many cases.




Hot take: Not all threads are for you*.  If you aren't interested in the thread, you shouldn't engage in it.


*for any value of "you".


----------



## billd91

Umbran said:


> Hot take: Not all threads are for you*.  If you aren't interested in the thread, you shouldn't engage in it.



Psst… guys, Umbran’s on to us and why this thread exists.


----------



## darjr

billd91 said:


> Psst… guys, Umbran’s on to us and why this thread exists.



Quick! Everyone run!!!

Partner: why are you running around with your phone like your hair is on fire?
Me: can’t… talk….. ENWorld….
Partner: I should have known


----------



## trappedslider

billd91 said:


> Psst… guys, Umbran’s on to us and why this thread exists.



QUICK ESCAPE!


----------



## Scribe

BookTenTiger said:


> Today I succeeded on my Wisdom saving throw and did not post in that thread.


----------



## Gradine

Don't you just love when you give someone three benefit of the doubt and they repay you by launching into race realism?


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> QUICK ESCAPE!



"Look, a distraction!" - Silver Tom, the Bard


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Gradine said:


> Don't you just love when you give someone three benefit of the doubt and they repay you by launching into race realism?



Anytime someone says, "Hang on, let's hear the bigots' point of view in this discussion", they're acting in bad faith.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Fix your typos if you want people to engage with your impoible tread pints


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots




----------



## el-remmen

Just wanted to share what I ordered from the local Thai place this evening:





Yes, that's right. . . _EXTRA_ pineapple


----------



## Galandris

el-remmen said:


> Just wanted to share what I ordered from the local Thai place this evening:
> 
> View attachment 266546
> 
> Yes, that's right. . . _EXTRA_ pineapple




Sounds nice! The heresy lies in using that as pizza toping. Or to eat it between burger buns. Or to slap it on buns that you put within a calzone.


----------



## Cadence

el-remmen said:


> Just wanted to share what I ordered from the local Thai place this evening:
> 
> View attachment 266546
> 
> Yes, that's right. . . _EXTRA_ pineapple




I'm assuming it wasn't a Pineapple, Curry, Shrimp, Chicken, Pineapple Pizza hiding in there.
If it wasn't, that sounds great!


----------



## CleverNickName

el-remmen said:


> Just wanted to share what I ordered from the local Thai place this evening:
> 
> View attachment 266546
> 
> Yes, that's right. . . _EXTRA_ pineapple




It's the Bard/Warlock multiclass of curries!

Incidentally I'm having curry for dinner tonight also... mine's just a PHB standard Fiendpact Warlock (red curry, extra spicy).


----------



## Umbran

Galandris said:


> The heresy lies in using that as pizza toping.




Heresy, where your dogma leaves a smelly present in your karma.


----------



## Hussar

Here now. Pineapple on a burger is fantastic.


----------



## trappedslider

Galandris said:


> Sounds nice! The heresy lies in using that as pizza toping. Or to eat it between burger buns. Or to slap it on buns that you put within a calzone.






Umbran said:


> Heresy, where your dogma leaves a smelly present in your karma.



Did someone say Heresy?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Galandris said:


> Sounds nice! The heresy lies in using that as pizza toping. Or to eat it between burger buns. Or to slap it on buns that you put within a calzone.



All genius begins as heresy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> All genius begins as heresy.




If it’s a blasphemy, it’s a blast for you, too!


----------



## Davies

Umbran said:


> Hot take: Not all threads are for you*.  If you aren't interested in the thread, you shouldn't engage in it.



Good thing I haven't, then.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hottest take- Tolkien blows, and seeing someone start talking about the importance of the Tolkien canon fills me with the same dread as when I hear someone say that I really don’t get why Rush is the bestest band evar.


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hottest take- Tolkien blows, and seeing someone start talking about the importance of the Tolkien canon fills me with the same dread as when I hear someone say that I really don’t get why Rush is the bestest band evar.




I feel like this was a Matt Colville diss.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> I feel like this was a Matt Colville diss.




I don’t understand the reference, but I will assume he is another in a long line of bard lovers.

After all, my sense of humor is so dark, my jokes look like a satellite picture of North Korea at night.


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I don’t understand the reference, but I will assume he is another in a long line of bard lovers.
> 
> After all, my sense of humor is so dark, my jokes look like a satellite picture of North Korea at night.




Matt Colville is the founder/lead designer of MCDM games and a YouTube D&D personality (his "Running the Game" videos are great), who also does Twitch streams doing deep dives on his favorite prog rock bands (like Rush) and has a lot of opinions on thinks like Dune and LotR.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Matt Colville is the founder/lead designer of MCDM games and a YouTube D&D personality (his "Running the Game" videos are great), who also does Twitch streams doing deep dives on his favorite prog rock bands (like Rush) and has a lot of opinions on thinks like Dune and LotR.




Progressive rock is neither progressive, nor rock. 

Discuss amongst yourselves.


----------



## Aeson

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Progressive rock is neither progressive, nor rock.
> 
> Discuss amongst yourselves.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Progressive rock is neither progressive, nor rock.
> 
> Discuss amongst yourselves.



Rock and roll is that which I point at and say, "That is rock and roll."


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Progressive rock is neither progressive, nor rock.
> 
> Discuss amongst yourselves.



I can hear a thousand prog fans telling us to listen to Spock's Beard now.


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I don’t understand the reference, but I will assume he is another in a long line of bard lovers.




I got the reference. He's a famous bard broadcasting his regular game on the Interwebs and does voices very well.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> and seeing someone start talking about the importance of the Tolkien canon fills me with the same dread as when I hear someone say that I really don’t get why Rush is the bestest band evar.




Strong agree (on both canon being overrated and painful and on Rush being not all that).



Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hottest take- Tolkien blows,



Now you're just being <excised to save the moderators trouble>.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hottest take- Tolkien blows, and seeing someone start talking about the importance of the Tolkien canon fills me with the same dread as when I hear someone say that I really don’t get why Rush is the bestest band evar.



As a Canadian, I don't get the Rush thing either, however, I also don't get the hate for Nickelback. On the subject of canon, I feel differently.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Now you're just being <excised to save the moderators trouble>.




…just being completely on-brand? 

C’mon. What has PROFESSOR TOL-KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN ever done for fantasy literature, anyway?


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Progressive rock is neither progressive, nor rock.
> 
> Discuss amongst yourselves.




He is the first one who would admit the former, not sure he or I would agree on the latter.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> As a Canadian, I don't get the Rush thing either, however, I also don't get the hate for Nickelback. On the subject of canon, I feel differently.




This is how you remind me that Nickelback is what would happen if Rush wrote music that rocked.

Rush is, essentially, the smooth jazzeasy listening Nickelback.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This is how you remind me that Nickelback is what would happen if Rush wrote music that rocked.
> 
> Rush is, essentially, the smooth jazzeasy listening Nickelback.


----------



## Gradine

I'll add that, irrespective of your feelings on the source material, Postmodern Jukebox's Motown Tribute to Nickelback absolutely slaps


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hottest take- Tolkien blows, and seeing someone start talking about the importance of the Tolkien canon fills me with the same dread as when I hear someone say that I really don’t get why Rush is the bestest band evar.



If you remove the description of the trees the Lord of the Rings becomes a short story.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This is how you remind me that Nickelback is what would happen if Rush wrote music that rocked.
> 
> Rush is, essentially, the smooth jazzeasy listening Nickelback.



Is that what I really am?


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> …just being completely on-brand?
> 
> C’mon. What has PROFESSOR TOL-KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN ever done for fantasy literature, anyway?




That story reminds me of a time I was on a city bus as we passed a Vietnamese-French restaurant, and one guy loudly, ignorantly and proudly declared. "That's stupid! People will come up with all kinds of ridiculous things these days. What do France and Vietnam have to do with each other?"


----------



## overgeeked

"You'd love feces pizza _if only you'd try it_..."

No, thanks. Really. I'm good.

"But..."

No.


----------



## overgeeked

"See, it's not that someone broke into your house and stole your stuff that's the problem. The real problem is that you don't want people breaking into your house and stealing your stuff. Just be okay with people breaking into your house and stealing your stuff and poof, no problem. Or have you tried not having stuff? Maybe try not having a house."

Nah. I'm gonna stick with the thief being responsible for thieving.


----------



## Gradine

Ryujin said:


> Is that what I really am?



It's not like you to keep this joke going


----------



## prabe

I don't think I understand why that's even a question. The answer seems obvious.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

el-remmen said:


> I feel like this was a Matt Colville diss.



I love Matt Colville's Running the Game series, but his opinions on Lord of the Rings are rough to get through.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> …just being completely on-brand?
> 
> C’mon. What has PROFESSOR TOL-KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN ever done for fantasy literature, anyway?




"Last of all Snarf stood alone. Then he cast aside his phone, and wielded a keyboard two-handed; and it is sung that the keys smoked in the black blood of the troll-posters of ENWorld until they withered, and each time that he slew Snarf cried: "Not misused legal terms! Not bards!" Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive, by the command of Morgoth, for they grappled him with their hands, which clung to him still though he hewed off their arms; and ever their numbers were renewed, until at last he fell buried beneath them and they forced him to eat pineapple pizza.  And thus fell the mightiest thread-crafter of mortal men."


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> "Last of all Snarf stood alone. Then he cast aside his phone, and wielded a keyboard two-handed; and it is sung that the keys smoked in the black blood of the troll-posters of ENWorld until they withered, and each time that he slew Snarf cried: "Not misused legal terms! Not bards!" Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive, by the command of Morgoth, for they grappled him with their hands, which clung to him still though he hewed off their arms; and ever their numbers were renewed, until at last he fell buried beneath them and they forced him to eat pineapple pizza.  And thus fell the mightiest thread-crafter of mortal men."


----------



## payn

Whenever a thread comes up about player expectations, I always get the popcorn ready. You know some folks will march in declaring pre-Hickman Nintendo hard play to be the one true way of D&D. Then, in the next thread same folks are lamenting the fact that players dont play the game right anymore and they cant find anybody for their fantasy _Saw_ RPG campaign.


----------



## Cadence

So are Indiana Jones and Star Wars canonically in the same universe?


----------



## Cadence

Also, waiting for the flood of threads on how Magic being a billion dollar brand might be very short lived.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Whenever a thread comes up about player expectations, I always get the popcorn ready. You know some folks will march in declaring pre-Hickman Nintendo hard play to be the one true way of D&D. Then, in the next thread same folks are lamenting the fact that players dont play the game right anymore and they cant find anybody for their fantasy _Saw_ RPG campaign.




Nintendo? You really take it WAY too easy on the players, Payn.






THE KOBOLDS.... THEY'RE EVERYWHERE .... CAN'T STOP 'EM!!!!!!!!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Nintendo? You really take it WAY too easy on the players, Payn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE KOBOLDS.... THEY'RE EVERYWHERE .... CAN'T STOP 'EM!!!!!!!!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


>


----------



## MarkB

Cadence said:


> So are Indiana Jones and Star Wars canonically in the same universe?



Same universe, different galaxy.


----------



## Cadence

MarkB said:


> Same universe, different galaxy.



Do we ever find out if Indy actually lives on our earth?  Could there be a mirror earth in another galaxy?  Do we ever see him looking at the galaxy or saying his planet is "Earth" or is in the "Milky Way"?

---

Is ET in something too?


----------



## Scribe

Cadence said:


> Also, waiting for the flood of threads on how Magic being a billion dollar brand might be very short lived.



_Googles_

Interesting.


----------



## MarkB

Cadence said:


> Do we ever find out if Indy actually lives on our earth?  Could there be a mirror earth in another galaxy?  Do we ever see him looking at the galaxy or saying his planet is "Earth" or is in the "Milky Way"?



Mirror Earths is more a Star Trek thing than a Star Wars thing, and was pretty silly even there. Sure, you could posit that there was another Earth long ago, in a galaxy far, far away which had space Nazis in space 1940s, but why would you?


Cadence said:


> Is ET in something too?



ET's species (or one that looks identical) has representatives in the Senate in Star Wars. Somewhat implausible, but maybe they were around for a long time and were capable of intergalactic travel.


----------



## Cadence

MarkB said:


> Mirror Earths is more a Star Trek thing than a Star Wars thing, and was pretty silly even there. Sure, you could posit that there was another Earth long ago, in a galaxy far, far away which had space Nazis in space 1940s, but why would you?




Is an unreliable narrator for the Star Wars intro less canon breaking than galactic+time travelling?


----------



## MarkB

Cadence said:


> Is an unreliable narrator for the Star Wars intro less canon breaking than galactic+time travelling?



I ask again: Why would you? What's the upside here?


----------



## CleverNickName

I almost posted this in that other thread.


----------



## trappedslider

LOWERCASE LETTERS ARE FOR THE LOWER CLASS


----------



## Cadence

MarkB said:


> I ask again: Why would you? What's the upside here?




Wait, canon needs a reason!?!?


----------



## MarkB

CleverNickName said:


> I almost posted this in that other thread.
> 
> View attachment 266641



I'm listening to the Andy Serkis audiobook version of Fellowship of the Rings at the moment, and he does a great job with Tom Bombadil. Even for non-verse dialogue, he delivers it as though Tom's singing the lines.


----------



## MarkB

Cadence said:


> Wait, canon needs a reason!?!?



No, but my interest in it does.


----------



## prabe

Kicking someone out of your game who's not enjoying your game is punishment ... how, exactly?


----------



## MarkB

prabe said:


> Kicking someone out of your game who's not enjoying your game is punishment ... how, exactly?



If they didn't leave voluntarily despite their lack of enjoyment, they must have been getting something out of it.


----------



## prabe

MarkB said:


> If they didn't leave voluntarily despite their lack of enjoyment, they must have been getting something out of it.



Leaving a game can be difficult; inertia is a thing. Kicking them out is probably doing them a favor.


----------



## MarkB

prabe said:


> Leaving a game can be difficult; inertia is a thing. Kicking them out is probably doing them a favor.



Can be. Probably doesn't feel like it, though.


----------



## prabe

MarkB said:


> Can be. Probably doesn't feel like it, though.



I think you're right, that the GM kicking someone from their table probably doesn't think of it as doing that player a favor. I'm being amused by an attitude that comes across to me as, "They don't like playing at my table, well *I'll show them*."


----------



## Galandris

prabe said:


> Kicking someone out of your game who's not enjoying your game is punishment ... how, exactly?




Your lack of empathy for sado-masochists out there is appalling!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Kicking someone out of your game who's not enjoying your game is punishment ... how, exactly?




*Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Player Agency To Be*

Look, if I don't have the right to play in games I hate and make like miserable for everyone around me, then it's obvious that you're not respecting my player agency! I demand the right to play in games I don't want to play in!







Conversely-

*Area Man Passionate Defender of Dungeon Master Empowerment*

Look, if I don't have the right to tell MY stories through the players, then why am I bothering to spend time preparing stories anyway? I demand the right to kick all players out so I can play with myself!*








*Is phrasing still a thing?


----------



## overgeeked

payn said:


> Whenever a thread comes up about player expectations, I always get the popcorn ready. You know some folks will march in declaring pre-Hickman Nintendo hard play to be the one true way of D&D. Then, in the next thread same folks are lamenting the fact that players dont play the game right anymore and they cant find anybody for their fantasy _Saw_ RPG campaign.



Well, yeah. Some people like a challenging game, some don’t. Not everyone likes Elden Ring and Souls games. Roguelikes aren’t for everyone.

You get the same thing from the Hickman loyalists. D&D as semi-scripted tabletop theater sports is the only real and good way to play.

Neither is right. It’s all preferences. Pineapple on pizza or no.


----------



## RealAlHazred

MarkB said:


> Mirror Earths is more a Star Trek thing than a Star Wars thing



I thought Mirror Earth was more a Gorean thing?


----------



## payn

overgeeked said:


> Well, yeah. Some people like a challenging game, some don’t. Not everyone likes Elden Ring and Souls games. Roguelikes aren’t for everyone.
> 
> You get the same thing from the Hickman loyalists. D&D as semi-scripted tabletop theater sports is the only real and good way to play.
> 
> Neither is right. It’s all preferences. Pineapple on pizza or no.



True, though I dont hear much complaining or grandstanding by Hickman loyalists. I think they are all too busy enjoying their games.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> Neither is right. It’s all preferences. Pineapple on pizza or no.




I think it's time to go GALAXY BRAINED and break the logjam on this.

People who like real pizza without pineapple?
People who like.... ugh ... pizza with pineapple toppings? 

We're going to bring them all together, and make them eat .... 






That's right! Pineapple with a pizza topping. Sometime you have to think outside of the box. WAY outside of it.


----------



## trappedslider

trappedslider said:


> LOWERCASE LETTERS ARE FOR THE LOWER CLASS



This message was brought to you by a capitalist.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> True, though I dont hear much complaining or grandstanding by Hickman loyalists. I think they are all too busy enjoying their games.



I think you get complaints if you have Hickmanist players and a non-Hickmanist GM, or the other way around. I think I agree that if everyone at the table is Hickmanist it's unlikely to be a problem.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I think you get complaints if you have Hickmanist players and a non-Hickmanist GM, or the other way around. I think I agree that if everyone at the table is Hickmanist it's unlikely to be a problem.




It's not going to be a problem, because they're not playing. 

_They're all just reading a book_.

"Hey, wanna read the original Dragonlance Chronicles again?" 



I'll show myself out now.......


----------



## Ryujin

Work Related - I have found very little on this Earth that compares to the entitlement of a newly-minted Law professor.


----------



## overgeeked

payn said:


> True, though I dont hear much complaining or grandstanding by Hickman loyalists. I think they are all too busy enjoying their games.



Every single time someone who likes pre-Hickman styles of play posts anything the Hickman loyalists come out of the woodwork screaming about how they’re having fun wrong.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I think it's time to go GALAXY BRAINED and break the logjam on this.
> 
> People who like real pizza without pineapple?
> People who like.... ugh ... pizza with pineapple toppings?
> 
> We're going to bring them all together, and make them eat ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's right! Pineapple with a pizza topping. Sometime you have to think outside of the box. WAY outside of it.



Finally! The appropriate amount of pineapple.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Work Related - I have found very little on this Earth that compares to the entitlement of a newly-minted Law professor.



They must feel the way God feels when he gets tenure.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Work Related - I have found very little on this Earth that compares to the entitlement of a newly-minted Law professor.




1. Hedge Fund Manager. 

2. Professional Athlete

3. Surgeon (not doctors generally).

4. Child of someone who is really, really, really rich.

5. BMW Driver while switching lanes.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. Hedge Fund Manager.
> 
> 2. Professional Athlete
> 
> 3. Surgeon (not doctors generally).
> 
> 4. Child of someone who is really, really, really rich.
> 
> 5. BMW Driver while switching lanes.



The first 4 are close, but clearly lesser. The last one is definitely in the running.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> They must feel the way God feels when he gets tenure.



If so, the professor would never admit to it. Likening oneself to a lesser being is simply not done, good fellow.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> Every single time someone who likes pre-Hickman styles of play posts anything the Hickman loyalists come out of the woodwork screaming about how they’re having fun wrong.



Not everyone who doesn't care for the very oldest styles of play--which I'd lump as dungeoncrawls and hexcrawls--is exactly a Hickman loyalist. Then again, I'm not big on telling other people they're playing wrong, or telling them they don't understand their own play.


----------



## overgeeked

prabe said:


> Not everyone who doesn't care for the very oldest styles of play--which I'd lump as dungeoncrawls and hexcrawls--is exactly a Hickman loyalist. Then again, I'm not big on telling other people they're playing wrong, or telling them they don't understand their own play.



That’s fair.


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> If so, the professor would never admit to it. Likening oneself to a lesser being is simply not done, good fellow.




In my line of work, I am required sometimes to use the royal We. Including with the capitalization, as in "We refer for further details to Our email sent yesterday..."

It's both silly and incredibly gratifying. Die, lowly Law professors, and prostrate yourself at Our feet.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> They must feel the way God feels when he gets tenure.




"What the difference between an Article III Judge* and God?"



Spoiler



God doesn't think that she's a Federal judge.



*Federal court judge.


----------



## Galandris

You really nailed it ;-)


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> In my line of work, I am required sometimes to use the royal We. Including with the capitalization, as in "We refer for further details to Our email sent yesterday..."
> 
> It's both silly and incredibly gratifying. Die, lowly Law professors, and prostrate yourself at Our feet.



I can and will make liberal use of the "royal we" when circumstances require


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I think it's time to go GALAXY BRAINED and break the logjam on this.
> 
> People who like real pizza without pineapple?
> People who like.... ugh ... pizza with pineapple toppings?
> 
> We're going to bring them all together, and make them eat ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's right! Pineapple with a pizza topping. Sometime you have to think outside of the box. WAY outside of it.



But why don't the little pizzas also have pineapple on them?
That's what I thought.
Because it's _not real pineapple pizza._
You're doing it wrong, you're ruining it for everyone, everything's terrible, something something wizard subclass something, etc.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> But why don't the little pizzas also have pineapple on them?
> That's what I thought.
> Because it's _not real pineapple pizza._



Do you want to create a recursion error in reality?


----------



## Mad_Jack

prabe said:


> I think you get complaints if you have Hickmanist players and a non-Hickmanist GM, or the other way around. I think I agree that if everyone at the table is Hickmanist it's unlikely to be a problem.




 I think the fact that we've gotten to the point of using words like "Hickmanist" is a good indicator that it's probably time for us all to put down the D&D books and go play some other game...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> But why don't the little pizzas also have pineapple on them?
> That's what I thought.
> Because it's _not real pineapple pizza._
> You're doing it wrong, you're ruining it for everyone, everything's terrible, something something wizard subclass something, etc.










Some of us have better uses for pineapple than putting them on pizza.


----------



## J.Quondam

Ryujin said:


> Do you want to create a recursion error in reality?



coupon: _"Make your pizza recursive for just $2 more!"_


----------



## MarkB

IPIC - Infinite Pineapple in Infinite Combinations.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ooh my yellow tasty one, tasty one.
When you gonna give me some juice, Pineapple?
Ooh you make my tastebuds run, my tastebuds run.
Gonna put you in a Pina Colada, Pineapple
Never gonna stop, give it up.
Even eat the rind. 
Always eat it up for my lunch
Your taste is so refined. My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Pineapple

Come a little closer huh, ah will ya huh.
Close enough to get in my mouth, Pineapple.
Keeping it a mystery gets to me
Running down my chin and my lips, Pineapple
Never gonna stop, give it up. 
Even eat the rind.
Always eat it up for my lunch
Your taste is so refined. My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Pineapple

When you gonna give it to me, give it to me.
It is just a matter of time Pineapple
Is it just destiny, destiny?
Or is it just a game in my mind, Pineapple?
Never gonna stop, give it up. 
Even eat the rind.
Always eat it up for my lunch
Your taste is so refined. My my my i yi woo.
M M M My Pineapple
M M M My Pineapple
M M M My Pineapple
M M M My Pineapple

Ohhhhh My Pineapple
Ohhhhh My Pineapple
Ohhhhh My Pineapple


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> IPIC - Infinite Pineapple in Infinite Combinations.
> 
> View attachment 266677



I didn't know that Vulcan had a Canada.


----------



## Scribe

Took awhile but...


----------



## Gradine

Alright, who had "The thread for some reason devolves into 'Boy, English sure is a f'ed up language'" on their ENWorld bingo card?


----------



## Hussar

Gradine said:


> Alright, who had "The thread for some reason devolves into 'Boy, English sure is a f'ed up language'" on their ENWorld bingo card?




To be honest it’s actually a bit refreshing to find something we pretty much all agree about. 

On the other hand I’m so biting my tongue and not interjecting the idea of gender as a social construct.


----------



## trappedslider

behold my daedric assassin


----------



## darjr




----------



## prabe

darjr said:


> View attachment 266738



It sure blowed up good, didn't it?


----------



## darjr

Wow! Dint some of these folks realize that Dragonlance spelled the end of their style of play?


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> It sure blowed up good, didn't it?



Little known fact, that’s from the Death Star. Guess which one?


----------



## Scribe

Once again, people straight jacketing themselves and their definitions.


----------



## payn

Have nuance and context been killed? I feel like they are dead.


----------



## Scribe

payn said:


> Have nuance and context been killed? I feel like they are dead.



Very much dead, especially online, and certainly here.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Have nuance and context been killed? I feel like they are dead.


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Have nuance and context been killed? I feel like they are dead.




Try a (+) thread.  You might find them there.


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> Try a (+) thread.  You might find them there.



Perhaps, though I find +threads often eliminate nuance, albeit in a required manner to discuss the topic specifically.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Try a (+) thread.  You might find them there.


----------



## darjr

Oh no. The bad word was said. Now that thread is doomed.


----------



## Scribe

darjr said:


> Oh no. The bad word was said. Now that thread is doomed.




A: "Just let me eat my pineapple!"
B: "I like mushrooms personally."
A: "Eww, absolutely not you cannot have that!"
B: "I see."


----------



## Umbran

payn said:


> Perhaps, though I find +threads often eliminate nuance, albeit in a required manner to discuss the topic specifically.




Well, note that not having nuance present doesn't mean it was eliminated - you cannot eliminate what didn't exist to begin with.

For example: almost trivially, you don't get nuance of positions _against_ the thread topic, yes.  But you didn't have that in any significant measure to begin with, so nothing is really lost.

Within the bounds of the topic, however, if the speakers have nuanced thoughts, they can express them.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Olaf the Stout was talking to Chun the Unavoidable on the way to the dungeon.

Chun asked Olaf, "So, what are you?

Olaf replied, "Ah, I'm a Fighter. A Champion! And you?"

Chun said, "Wizard, diviner."

Olaf looked at Chun said, "Diviner, eh? How long have you been a diviner?"



Spoiler



Chun replied, "Oh, since next Wednesday."


----------



## Scribe

Every day we stray further from 3.5e Gods light....


----------



## prabe

All kings are thieves, really, aren't they?


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> All kings are thieves, really, aren't they?


----------



## Scribe

BookTenTiger said:


> Today I succeeded on my Wisdom saving throw and did not post in that thread.


----------



## Galandris




----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> View attachment 266814



Hardly torture. After all, the sauce on it is fruit based anyway. On the other hand, Canada has just sounded the horns of war.


----------



## Galandris

Is that a pizza? Honestly, it looks more like a thin-crusted coffee/chocolate tart?


----------



## Umbran

Galandris said:


> Is that a pizza? Honestly, it looks more like a thin-crusted coffee/chocolate tart?




Pizza is a tart.


----------



## Galandris

A corpse? Goodness, no, he's just a living-impaired person.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Umbran said:


> Pizza is a tart.




Pizza is a tart. A saucy tart. Which means that, _by definition_, we need to fundraise to create a time machine and send someone back in time.

Why?

To kill Hitler?
To make sure the U.S. joins the League of Nations?
To throw ourselves bodily in front of Sam Panopoulos, so that he never puts the first accursed pineapple on a pizza?

NO.

So ....



Spoiler



that we can make sure that Gygax includes Pizza on the Random Harlot table.


----------



## payn

Are yall gonna make pizza poptarts a thing?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Galandris said:


> A corpse? Goodness, no, he's just a living-impaired person.




I prefer to think of him as "Post-Florida."


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Are yall gonna make pizza poptarts a thing?



It's already been done.


----------



## Galandris

There apparently is a controversy in the UK about a pub whose name, evoking a local legend about a doggo bringing back food to its master, is being changed.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Galandris said:


> There apparently is a controversy in the UK about a pub whose name, evoking a local legend about a doggo bringing back food to its master, is being changed.



They should just turn it into a Chili's. That way nobody is happy.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> It's already been done.
> View attachment 266845



You get those in your toaster???


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> You get those in your toaster???



Oh gods no...I don't eat Hot Pockets.

But I _could _put one in my toaster_, _easily, if my toaster is like this one here:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> You get those in your toaster???




Behold!


----------



## Umbran

It is like Rule 34, but for bad food ideas.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Behold!


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Behold!




Sounds yummy, but I'd prefer it to be deep-fried.


----------



## Umbran

Galandris said:


> Sounds yummy, but I'd prefer it to be deep-fried.




There is one pizza place near me that deep fries their calzones.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Oh gods no...I don't eat Hot Pockets.
> 
> But I _could _put one in my toaster_, _easily.  My toaster is like this one here:
> 
> View attachment 266849



Oh man I have the best story about those things.

A friend of mine was sharing a two bedroom apartment with another friend. The roommate had one of these toaster ovens and made 90% of his meals in it. My friend started using it on occasion. One Christmas eve my friend comes home to see the charred out burnt to hell toaster over sitting in the hallway outside their apartment. He walks in and his roommate starts creaming at him. "You son of a B you didnt use tinfoil in the toaster oven. It started on fire while I was making my family a holiday appetizer (Totinos pizza rolls).


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Oh man I have the best story about those things.
> 
> A friend of mine was sharing a two bedroom apartment with another friend. The roommate had one of these toaster ovens and made 90% of his meals in it. My friend started using it on occasion. One Christmas eve my friend comes home to see the charred out burnt to hell toaster over sitting in the hallway outside their apartment. He walks in and his roommate starts creaming at him. "You son of a B you didnt use tinfoil in the toaster oven. It started on fire while I was making my family a holiday appetizer (Totinos pizza rolls).



There's a lot to unpack in there.

I'm gonna start at the end, with _holiday appetizer for my family._  I've heard Pizza Rolls described in many ways by many people, but that one is a first.


----------



## CleverNickName

Gourmet Hot Pockets?


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> Gourmet Hot Pockets?



Definite contradiction in terms.


----------



## billd91

overgeeked said:


> Definite contradiction in terms.



Maybe. But Claire Saffitz's attempts to deconstruct various mainstream foods/treats were reasonably fun to watch. Too bad the Bon Appétit Test Kitchen video program broke down so badly because of discriminatory management issues.


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> Is that a pizza? Honestly, it looks more like a thin-crusted coffee/chocolate tart?



It's being sold as "dessert pizza." It's in the crawl at the top.






						Pizza Pizza
					






					www.pizzapizza.ca


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> It's being sold as "dessert pizza." It's in the crawl at the top.



It should be sold as desert pizza, as in you should only eat it if you’re starving to death in the desert.


----------



## RealAlHazred

billd91 said:


> Maybe. But Claire Saffitz's attempts to deconstruct various mainstream foods/treats were reasonably fun to watch. Too bad the Bon Appétit Test Kitchen video program broke down so badly because of discriminatory management issues.



Until Elon Musk's various improvements at Twitter, I hadn't seen an online property simultaneously implode and explode in quite so spectacular a fashion as Bon Appétit! And I liked several of their hosts!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> Until Elon Musk's various improvements at Twitter, I hadn't seen an online property simultaneously implode and explode in quite so spectacular a fashion as Bon Appétit! And I liked several of their hosts!




It's one of those things that I hadn't heard about, and based on prior history ... I'm just not going to google.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's one of those things that I hadn't heard about, and based on prior history ... I'm just not going to google.



The less you know about either, the less unhappy that knowledge can make you. You have chosen well.


----------



## prabe

I have seen some people argue in favor of some seriously stupid things on this site, but I think that is most seriously the stupidest.


----------



## Gradine

Every time I see a thread full of people arguing about "combat as war vs combat as sport" I am filled with an overwhelming desire to actually understand what those terms actually need and why so many people seem to care so much about them.

The desire, thankfully, passes quickly.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Gradine said:


> Every time I see a thread full of people arguing about "combat as war vs combat as sport" I am filled with an overwhelming desire to actually understand what those terms actually need and why so many people seem to care so much about them.
> 
> The desire, thankfully, passes quickly.



The "combat as war" crew feel that fighting should only be a life-or-death, dramatic measure of last resort, and that's how it should be represented in play. They see the "combat as sport" crew as lacking a true understanding of stakes and narrative tension.

The "combat as sport" crew feel that fighting should be an opportunity for characters to display their skill and bravado, and do cool things, and that's how it should be represented in play. They see the "combat as war" crew as lacking a true understanding that this is a game and escapist fantasy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Every time I see a thread full of people arguing about "combat as war vs combat as sport" I am filled with an overwhelming desire to actually understand what those terms actually need and why so many people seem to care so much about them.




Wait until you see the thread of people arguing about "commenting as war" vs. "commenting as sport."

We all know which category I fall into!

Commenting as ....


Spoiler



fpoon.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Wait until you see the thread of people arguing about "commenting as war" vs. "commenting as sport."
> 
> We all know which category I fall into!
> 
> Commenting as ....
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> fpoon.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Wait until you see the thread of people arguing about "commenting as war" vs. "commenting as sport."
> 
> We all know which category I fall into!
> 
> Commenting as ....
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> fpoon.








Statler: That GM aint half bad.
Waldorf: You're right, that GM is all bad....


----------



## Gradine

RealAlHazred said:


> The "combat as war" crew feel that fighting should only be a life-or-death, dramatic measure of last resort, and that's how it should be represented in play. They see the "combat as sport" crew as lacking a true understanding of stakes and narrative tension.
> 
> The "combat as sport" crew feel that fighting should be an opportunity for characters to display their skill and bravado, and do cool things, and that's how it should be represented in play. They see the "combat as war" crew as lacking a true understanding that this is a game and escapist fantasy.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> ....




As a fan of schadenfreude, I am going to ask for a new word to describe the enjoyment I am getting from the Musk takeover of twitter.

Something German for, "Watching someone get what they've asked for, and getting it good and hard."


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


>




Like the dog star, I am serious.


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> As a fan of schadenfreude, I am going to ask for a new word to describe the enjoyment I am getting from the Musk takeover of twitter.
> 
> Something German for, "Watching someone get what they've asked for, and getting it good and hard."



A Menckening.  Or perhaps "to Mencken".


----------



## overgeeked

RealAlHazred said:


> The "combat as war" crew feel that fighting should only be a life-or-death, dramatic measure of last resort, and that's how it should be represented in play. They see the "combat as sport" crew as lacking a true understanding of stakes and narrative tension.
> 
> The "combat as sport" crew feel that fighting should be an opportunity for characters to display their skill and bravado, and do cool things, and that's how it should be represented in play. They see the "combat as war" crew as lacking a true understanding that this is a game and escapist fantasy.



Over the years I’ve been in both camps. I don’t think holding one position is about judging the other’s preferences as wrong or bad, rather what you think is fun at the time. Some people argue like it’s life or death and they have to prove their preferences are objectively right, but it’s all elfgames.


----------



## Scribe

Next on the docket: The immorality of Monsters providing XP.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Scribe said:


> Next on the docket: The immorality of Monsters providing XP.



That hasn't been a thing in quite some time. In WotC D&D, you get XP for overcoming challenges.

The folks who overcome villains in Prismeer by their wits and diplomacy get just as much as the people who stab everything to death.


----------



## Scribe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> That hasn't been a thing in quite some time. In WotC D&D, you get XP for overcoming challenges.
> 
> The folks who overcome villains in Prismeer by their wits and diplomacy get just as much as the people who stab everything to death.




I know there are other options.


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> The folks who overcome villains in Prismeer by their wits and diplomacy get just as much as the people who stab everything to death.



Monsters as XP vs encounters as XP?


----------



## Ryujin

I seem to recall that in 1e you got 50% experience for creatures that were defeated, but not killed, as per the DMG.


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> I seem to recall that in 1e you got 50% experience for creatures that were defeated, but not killed, as per the DMG.




That's something I think I remember as well. It was causing post-fight beheading of everything in my (teenage) group. Actually, it might have been because we were teenagers, but I think nowadays I'd justify it in-world. "Do not forget to finish off the fallen and fleeing, because you'll soon be stronger if noone escape your wrath", Sith-way. But it would be tongue in cheek.


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> That's something I think I remember as well. It was causing post-fight beheading of everything in my (teenage) group. Actually, it might have been because we were teenagers, but I think nowadays I'd justify it in-world. "Do not forget to finish off the fallen and fleeing, because you'll soon be stronger if noone escape your wrath", Sith-way. But it would be tongue in cheek.



In my later 1e DM years I made sure to tell people that choosing to avoid a fight could net them as much experience as the fight, itself. I wanted creative problem solving. Most things devolved to hack & slash anyway


----------



## J.Quondam

This Stupid Life, the RPG.
Session #17,878 (excerpt)

PC#1: (holds up misshapen gray brick covered in frost) 
PC#1: What's this?
PC#2: Maybe stew meat? It got a label?
PC#1: Can't read it. Date looks like... umm... 3 years ago, I think.
PC#2: It look okay?
PC#1: I guess it looks okay.
PC#2: It smell okay?
PC#1: Can't really smell it. Think it's okay?
PC#2: We'll use it for stew. It's probably okay.
PC#1: Umm... okay.
Narrator: It wasn't okay.


----------



## overgeeked

Scribe said:


> Next on the docket: The immorality of Monsters providing XP.



Can’t wait for an honest conversation about the morality of playing games where the primary mode of play involves home invasions and mass murder.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Scribe said:


> Next on the docket: The immorality of Monsters providing XP.



There seem to be a great many people who think that XP should only be granted for actual monetary value acquired by the player character(s). I used to play with such a DM.

Me: "Okay, I get a job at the bank. That should be a _lot_ of XP!"
Him: "Not like that."
Me: "Really...? I'd think you'd get a lot of actual experience that way. Okay, I organize a charity and collect from the townsfolk."
Him: "Not like that."
Me: "Hmmm... Making it real tough here. How about this: my character's much smarter than I am. What if he invents an improvement on ship technology and sells it for profit? That's definitely something that would give a _lot_ of experience in real life!"
Him: "... You're not a good fit for this game."


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> Monsters as XP vs encounters as XP?



It's only encounters as XP. How people resolve the encounters is up to them.

(Cue the horny bard.)


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

RealAlHazred said:


> There seem to be a great many people who think that XP should only be granted for actual monetary value acquired by the player character(s). I used to play with such a DM.



Elements of the OSR movement are _obsessed_ with XP for GP. It's meant to motivate creative problem solving, but yeah, the mechanism is definitely off.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Can’t wait for an honest conversation about the morality of playing games where the primary mode of play involves home invasions and mass murder.



The recurring grave robbing seems to pale, by comparison.


----------



## Scribe

overgeeked said:


> Can’t wait for an honest conversation about the morality of playing games where the primary mode of play involves home invasions and mass murder.




"It doesnt count, they are constructs of...that essence which I deny should exist in my game at any mechanical level."


----------



## Galandris

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Elements of the OSR movement are _obsessed_ with XP for GP. It's meant to motivate creative problem solving, but yeah, the mechanism is definitely off.




Because they shorted Hasbro on the stock market out of spite for 5e and they want their XP now.


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Elements of the OSR movement are _obsessed_ with XP for GP. It's meant to motivate creative problem solving, but yeah, the mechanism is definitely off.



Back in the 1e days we had one DM, at high school, who was a stickler for the "paying for level training" rules in the DMG. This made it effectively impossible to level up during all but a scarce few adventures. I clearly remember finishing an adventure and then going off to train up for *THREE LEVELS" that I hadn't been able to get during play. I never used that rule. It really annoyed me.


----------



## Galandris

There is a lot of talk about accusation of moral colonialism in that other thread. I should remind that the largest island of Polynesia is France and watch head explodes all around.


----------



## CleverNickName

Or you could just forego XP altogether, and use milestone leveling (or as one of our disgruntled players puts it: you can just _tell _the players when they're _allowed_ to level up, you tyrant).


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Or you could just forego XP altogether, and use milestone leveling (or as one of our disgruntled players puts it: you can just _tell _the players when they're _allowed_ to level up, you tyrant).



Did that for my 4e campaign.


----------



## Galandris

Milestone levelling, or how to get players to bring snacks and beer more often.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Our current system - character’s are 13th level currently in our campaign.
Required to gain 14th Level is the earliest of:
Completion of 7 Sessions and the use of 14 Inspiration points (milestone and XP variant) *OR*
Obtaining a Conch of Teleportation (achieve a great feat in the storyline) *OR*
Attending the 4th Council Meeting (timeline event)

*Gaining an Inspiration point requires one connecting with their Ideals, Bonds or Flaws.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Elements of the OSR movement are _obsessed_ with XP for GP. It's meant to motivate creative problem solving, but yeah, the mechanism is definitely off.



It’s off, but it works better than most other systems. I add on the need to spend the gold to get XP. Helps evoke the old pulp fantasy stories a lot better. Why else would anyone bother going out and risking their lives once they had a fortune big enough to live a dozen comfortable lifetimes? Because they blew it all on bribes, donations, gifts, and carousing.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> It’s off, but it works better than most other systems. I add on the need to spend the gold to get XP. Helps evoke the old pulp fantasy stories a lot better. Why else would anyone bother going out and risking their lives once they had a fortune big enough to live a dozen comfortable lifetimes? Because they blew it all on bribes, donations, gifts, and carousing.



In the Before Times the rules about money and training ran directly counter to the concepts of a couple of classes that could only have as much in riches as they could carry.


----------



## MarkB

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Elements of the OSR movement are _obsessed_ with XP for GP. It's meant to motivate creative problem solving, but yeah, the mechanism is definitely off.



Do they also insist upon individual XP advancement for each character? Maybe each party member could beat up one of the others, take their gold, then they heal up and trade targets.


----------



## Scribe

Its  so close now to being said. Please someone connect the final dots.


----------



## overgeeked

Ped-ant…
Ped-ant…
Ped-ant, ped-ant, ped-ant.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Ped-ant…
> Ped-ant…
> Ped-ant, ped-ant, ped-ant.



You got as much brain as a dead ant,
As much imagination as a caravan sign.
But I still love you, still love you...


----------



## trappedslider

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> It's only encounters as XP. How people resolve the encounters is up to them.
> 
> (Cue the horny bard.)



By god I took proform exotic dance and I'm gonna use it!


----------



## payn

Ah, yes, that’s exactly what this thread needed. Another analogy…


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> It’s off, but it works better than most other systems.



Well, it's a more focused version of XP by beating encounters, by explicitly making "robbing the dragon blind while it slept" as a version of "defeating." But that narrow focus precludes getting XP for beating encounters in other ways.

But, as you say, if your goal is to evoke Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, it's a good proxy. It works less well for other emulations. (It wouldn't do anything in a game based on Game of Thrones or the Black Company, for instance.)

As always, incentivize the things you want your game to be about.


----------



## Scribe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> As always, incentivize the things you want your game to be about.


----------



## CleverNickName

Scribe said:


> Its  so close now to being said. Please someone connect the final dots.



Player agency is a myth?


----------



## RealAlHazred

I like the idea I've seen floated around (maybe originated by Jeff Rients?) that you only gain the XP for treasure value by spending it carousing. Basically, it doesn't matter _how much_ loot you liberated by invading the Benevolent Temple of the Kobold Great Mother and slaughtering the holy innocents there, nobody's going to know about it unless you blow some cash at the Black Boar and _tell people_ about your exploits!


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

RealAlHazred said:


> I like the idea I've seen floated around (maybe originated by Jeff Rients?) that you only gain the XP for treasure value by spending it carousing. Basically, it doesn't matter _how much_ loot you liberated by invading the Benevolent Temple of the Kobold Great Mother and slaughtering the holy innocents there, nobody's going to know about it unless you blow some cash at the Black Boar and _tell people_ about your exploits!



Incentivizing this, in other words:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Ah, yes, that’s exactly what this thread needed. Another analogy…




Analogies are to a thread as yachts are to a regatta.


----------



## Malmuria

RealAlHazred said:


> I like the idea I've seen floated around (maybe originated by Jeff Rients?) that you only gain the XP for treasure value by spending it carousing. Basically, it doesn't matter _how much_ loot you liberated by invading the Benevolent Temple of the Kobold Great Mother and slaughtering the holy innocents there, nobody's going to know about it unless you blow some cash at the Black Boar and _tell people_ about your exploits!



Yeah, and ultraviolet grasslands has a great table for this






My biggest issue with xp for gold in b/x is that it necessitates a particular kind of character--you pretty much have to be a tomb robber--and the amounts of gold ruin an economy almost immediately.  It's also a specific mentality to think about taking everything that isn't nailed down and most things that are nailed down.  Even though this is how most people play CRPGs!


----------



## overgeeked

Banh mi are amazing and super easy to make at home. That is all.


----------



## payn

overgeeked said:


> Banh mi are amazing and super easy to make at home. That is all.



When I worked in the office down town I had at least 3 joints to choose from. I might have to make my own its been so long (working remote now).


----------



## payn

Snowy Thursday blues. Enjoy a tune.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> When I worked in the office down town I had at least 3 joints to choose from.




Payn goin' to work every day.







Meanwhile, I have reviewed the Takhisis/Tiamat thread. 

I know that there is a lot of company ... but that might be the worst argument on enworld; if not ever, then certainly currently. I am dumber for having read that. There's something about watching people argue who, obviously, care very deeply about something that you don't care about at all.


----------



## darjr

Me: uh Russ, my eraser wore a hole in the forums.
Russ: well then fix it!
Me: uh… ok.


----------



## Umbran

RealAlHazred said:


> I like the idea I've seen floated around (maybe originated by Jeff Rients?) that you only gain the XP for treasure value by spending it carousing. Basically, it doesn't matter _how much_ loot you liberated by invading the Benevolent Temple of the Kobold Great Mother and slaughtering the holy innocents there, nobody's going to know about it unless you blow some cash at the Black Boar and _tell people_ about your exploits!




And people _knowing_ about it is what makes you better at stabbing, sneaking, and casting spells?

I mean, that's totally a metaphysics you can work with, but it means hiring bards to sing your praises is a way to gain mechanical power....


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Payn goin' to work every day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, I have reviewed the Takhisis/Tiamat thread.
> 
> I know that there is a lot of company ... but that might be the worst argument on enworld; if not ever, then certainly currently. I am dumber for having read that. There's something about watching people argue who, obviously, care very deeply about something that you don't care about at all.



Payn after work every day.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> And people _knowing_ about it is what makes you better at stabbing, sneaking, and casting spells?
> 
> I mean, that's totally a metaphysics you can work with, but it means hiring bards to sing your praises is a way to gain mechanical power....



Is this why cars come with radios?!?

Those cheap bastiges! I knew it!


----------



## Galandris

Umbran said:


> And people _knowing_ about it is what makes you better at stabbing, sneaking, and casting spells?
> 
> I mean, that's totally a metaphysics you can work with, but it means hiring bards to sing your praises is a way to gain mechanical power....




What, you mean we had to relate TRUE stories? OK, let's rename Sir Gartax and dragon with err, the epic tale of Sir Gartax and the small gecko.


----------



## overgeeked

“And in other news, today a middle-aged man on ENWorld decided to violently slam his own head into the same brick wall for the 467th time. When asked why, the man spit out his teeth and said, ‘Someday. Someday I’ll break through.’ The man, in fact, would never broke through.”


----------



## Scribe

overgeeked said:


> “And in other news, today a middle-aged man on ENWorld decided to violently slam his own head into the same brick wall for the 467th time. When asked why, the man spit out his teeth and said, ‘Someday. Someday I’ll break through.’ The man, in fact, would never broke through.”


----------



## overgeeked

Scribe said:


>



More like…


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> “And in other news, today a middle-aged man on ENWorld decided to violently slam his own head into the same brick wall for the 467th time. When asked why, the man spit out his teeth and said, ‘Someday. Someday I’ll break through.’ The man, in fact, would never broke through.”




I once asked a guy who kept pounding his head into the wall why he did that.

His response?

_It feels so good when I stop. _


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I once asked a guy who kept pounding his head into the wall why he did that.
> 
> His response?
> 
> _It feels so good when I stop. _



Because eventually either the wall will give way or my head will. Either way, it will no longer be my worry.


----------



## overgeeked

“If I can’t cheat I don’t want to play.”

Cool. Problem solved.


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I once asked a guy who kept pounding his head into the wall why he did that.
> 
> His response?
> 
> _It feels so good when I stop. _





Ryujin said:


> Because eventually either the wall will give way or my head will. Either way, it will no longer be my worry.



That might apply to meat-space, but I don’t think it works quite the same online.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> That might apply to meat-space, but I don’t think it works quite the same online.




Either my keyboard will give way, or my hands will!







Inanimate object 1. My meat 0.


----------



## Scribe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Either my keyboard will give way, or my hands will!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inanimate object 1. My meat 0.




That is without doubt, in my top 5 all time internet gifs.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> That might apply to meat-space, but I don’t think it works quite the same online.



No, online it's simply a metaphor


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> Have nuance and context been killed? I feel like they are dead.




 Don't you remember, they got caught in the sorcerer's fireball last session...




Ryujin said:


> In my later 1e DM years I made sure to tell people that choosing to avoid a fight could net them as much experience as the fight, itself. I wanted creative problem solving. Most things devolved to hack & slash anyway




 One time the party's spellcasters memorized nothing but _sleep_ spells and we snuck up on a bandit camp while they were all sleeping, made sure everyone was unconscious and then tied them all up - but conveniently "forgot" to search them all - and left to continue chasing the main objective of the adventure...
..._Knowing full well_ that our DM was going to give us the XP for the encounter and then have them escape before we got back to deal with them, so that we could get more XP for fighting them _again_.


----------



## Scribe

Holy Lord, that thread is off the rails.


----------



## overgeeked

“On second thought, let’s not go to that thread. ’Tis a silly place.”


----------



## Cadence




----------



## Cadence

I think I stopped around 6 or 8 back when they came out.  At some point, my only question was how many of the three he eventually ended up with.


----------



## Gradine

I didn't post in the other thread because I can't anymore, but...

Representation is in the eye of the beholder. I know many people who applauded She-ra for Double Trouble, an openly non binary character. Which seems cool, except for the part where they are a dishonest shapeshifter who thrives on chaos. They get better in the next season, but still...

And yet, I have queer and non binary friends who loved them from the start. And who am I to take that away from them?


----------



## darjr

Egad. Get a hobby!


----------



## Gradine

Also re the PHB gender statement:

Even at the time it was very awkwardly worded with some unfortunately outdated language, something that would've been caught and fixed by asking like... one directly impacted person, but that's a lesson that only took them what .. 8 years to learn?

On the other hand, it was still recognized for being well intentioned and a pretty big deal


----------



## Scribe

darjr said:


> Egad. Get a hobby!




I'm trying, I'm trying!


----------



## payn

I tried.


----------



## trappedslider

so, we know that there's fortnite in the MCU, and so I'm guessing there are also other MMOs and such. But imagine you're doing a raid when half of your group gets snapped


----------



## MarkB

trappedslider said:


> so, we know that there's fortnite in the MCU, and so I'm guessing there are also other MMOs and such. But imagine you're doing a raid when half of your group gets snapped



On the bright side, server queuing for popular MMOs was probably a non-issue for awhile. On the downside, it just became twice as hard to get together enough people to launch a 50-person battle royale.


----------



## trappedslider

MarkB said:


> On the bright side, server queuing for popular MMOs was probably a non-issue for awhile. On the downside, it just became twice as hard to get together enough people to launch a 50-person battle royale.



I bet Stormrage still had a que lol


----------



## CleverNickName

If you're an American, you are probably planning on celebrating Thanksgiving next week with your family and friends.

If you're an American of first-nation descent, you might have some complicated feelings about that holiday.

My wife and I are in the second category, and we've decided not to observe Thanksgiving this year.  Instead, we are having a Hobbit Feast: a Tolkien-themed costume party that celebrates the food and food-loving people of Middle Earth.  Folks will be dressed up as their favorite LotR character.  The house will be decorated to look like Bag End on Bilbo's eleventy-first birthday.  There will be _Lego Lord of the Rings_ on the Xbox, _The Hobbit: Tolkien Edit_ will be showing on the television, and there will be an after-supper game of _The One Ring_.

*But above all else* it's an all-day feast, and guests are encouraged to stop in at any time of the day, and stay as long as they like.   Early-risers can drop in for breakfast (or second breakfast).  Folks who slept in can join us for elevenses, and those who already have dinner plans can swing by for luncheon or afternoon tea.  Those who have their evenings free can join us for dinner or supper.  Meals are served to the table every 2 hours, starting at 7:00 a.m., and whoever happens to be here at that time is handed a plate and a fork.

No pilgrims or turkeys, no Mayflower, no colonists...not this year, no sir.  This year it's all hobbits and pipe-weed, seedcakes and brandywine and Lembas.


----------



## Hussar

Heh. That’s fantastic. 

And probably the best way to repurpose a holiday to eject the icky stuff.


----------



## prabe

My wife and I just take advantage of the day off to A) relax and B) make something special-ish for the two of us. No big feast, no big gatherings.


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> But imagine you're doing a raid when half of your group gets snapped




Because, imagining people you know dying suddenly... is funny?


----------



## payn

I love thanksgiving. I do regret making White Castle stuffing as a joke. I now have to make it every year…


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


>


----------



## Hussar

Holy crap.  I made my Wis save TWICE and didn't post in two different threads.

Yay me.


----------



## overgeeked

Losing isn’t fun for players. Does that mean losing should be removed from the game? Oh, wait, it already was.


----------



## payn




----------



## MarkB

payn said:


>



"Not the sharpest tool in the box, eh?"

"Yes, that is the issue."


----------



## Mad_Jack

MarkB said:


> "Not the sharpest tool in the box, eh?"
> 
> "Yes, that is the issue."




Although holding the person's head to that grindstone would certainly fix the issue, there may be certain legal consequences....


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> Although holding the person's head to that grindstone would certainly fix the issue, there may be certain legal consequences....



Not to mention the mess to be cleaned up.


----------



## CleverNickName

I never knew that the different Wizard subclasses would be so contentious.

Okay, that's a lie.  I totally knew.

From what I can tell, the best/worst way that we can fix/not fix the wizard is to make it more/less like (insert martial class here) and make it more/less like (insert spellcasting class here), while also adding/removing features from (insert third class here).  But it's important that we do/do not add/remove this/these feature(s), option(s), and/or spell(s) from the Wizard.  Or not.

I'm gonna go lie down.


----------



## Cadence

I have the fear that people vote for <redacted>  *pizza toppings* in real life like they do in the survivor threads.


----------



## payn

Everyone thinks its easier to add the things _you_ like to the game.


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> I never knew that the different Wizard subclasses would be so contentious.
> 
> Okay, that's a lie.  I totally knew.
> 
> From what I can tell, the best/worst way that we can fix/not fix the wizard is to make it more/less like (insert martial class here) and make it more/less like (insert spellcasting class here), while also adding/removing features from (insert third class here).  But it's important that we do/do not add/remove this/these feature(s), option(s), and/or spell(s) from the Wizard.  Or not.
> 
> I'm gonna go lie down.



Why would one wish to "fix" wizards? They make things go boom. That's all they need to do.


----------



## Deset Gled

Maybe I missed the memo, but is the OneD&D forum now the official place to just dump any homebrew stuff you think up?


----------



## Scribe

payn said:


> Everyone thinks its easier to add the things _you_ like to the game.



Which is obviously what I want to part with my cash for. An opportunity to do the work myself.


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


>



When I first saw this I thought movement impairment was the point. It's odd it's at the end almost as an afterthought.


----------



## Galandris

Aeson said:


> Why would one wish to "fix" wizards? They make things go boom. That's all they need to do.




They should move from quadratic to exponential. I'll generously let martial outshine them on the first adventuring day.


----------



## Aeson

Galandris said:


> They should move from quadratic to exponential.



Don't bring math into my RPG.  I'm an American, I don't math good.


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


>



Ugh really?


----------



## Deset Gled

Aeson said:


> Don't bring math into my RPG.  I'm an American, I don't math good.




I'm fine as long as it's only one math.  It's when you try and go from math to maths that I get lost.


----------



## darjr

Take 10dCorgi disapproval damage.


----------



## Aeson

Deset Gled said:


> I'm fine as long as it's only one math.  It's when you try and go from math to maths that I get lost.



Agreed. One math is enough. Multiple maths is crazy talk. So crazy my phone autocorrects to myths.


----------



## Galandris

Deset Gled said:


> I'm fine as long as it's only one math.




Is one math compatible with 5e maths?


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> Ugh really?
> View attachment 267474



Go home, Corgi. You're drunk.


----------



## Aeson

Is Corgi Swarm a spell like ability or innate spell for Elizabeth II?


----------



## CleverNickName

*CleverCranberry Sauce*
This stuff will run laps around that canned garbage.

_Ingredients:_
1 pound bag of fresh (or frozen) cranberries
16 oz. jar of your favorite orange marmalade
1/2 cup of your favorite wine
Sugar, honey, or maple syrup to taste

_Instructions:_
Add wine, cranberries, and marmalade to a saucepan.
Bring to a boil, then reduce heat and simmer until all the berries have popped.
Sweeten to taste with your sweetener of choice (I use honey).
Serve at room temperature.  It'll thicken as it cools; thin it with water (or a splash of that wine, if you've still got any left) to the desired consistency.


----------



## Umbran

Aeson said:


> Agreed. One math is enough. Multiple maths is crazy talk. So crazy my phone autocorrects to myths.




The term "maths" is left over from the time of Isaac Newton, when they worked under the theory that each bit of math was a discrete thing, so you could have multiple maths.
But today, we understand better that math is better described as a _substance_ than a collection of discrete objects.
This leaves the pluralized form left for speaking about large amounts of math.  Like you could speak of the water of the ocean, or the waters of the ocean - they mean the same thing, but one is more poetic than the other


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> *CleverCranberry Sauce*
> This stuff will run laps around that canned garbage.
> 
> _Ingredients:_
> 1 pound bag of fresh (or frozen) cranberries
> 16 oz. jar of your favorite orange marmalade
> 1/2 cup of your favorite wine
> Sugar, honey, or maple syrup to taste
> 
> _Instructions:_
> Add wine, cranberries, and marmalade to a saucepan.
> Bring to a boil, then reduce heat and simmer until all the berries have popped.
> Sweeten to taste with your sweetener of choice (I use honey).
> Serve at room temperature.  It'll thicken as it cools; thin it with water (or a splash of that wine, if you've still got any left) to the desired consistency.
> 
> View attachment 267485



It's true, cranberries are the easiest thing to make on turkey day. The can stuff is just sad.


----------



## MarkB

Aeson said:


> Is Corgi Swarm a spell like ability or innate spell for Elizabeth II?



Not anymore.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> The term "maths" is left over from the time of Isaac Newton, when they worked under the theory that each bit of math was a discrete thing, so you could have multiple maths.
> But today, we understand better that math is better described as a _substance_ than a collection of discrete objects.
> This leaves the pluralized form left for speaking about large amounts of math.  Like you could speak of the water of the ocean, or the waters of the ocean - they mean the same thing, but one is more poetic than the other



It's interesting trying to parse the English sentence, "I studied maths and sciences," correctly for intent.


----------



## Aeson

MarkB said:


> Not anymore.



You're assuming she's not an undead being awaiting her return.


----------



## darjr

I disapprove


----------



## payn

Look who's talking...


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> View attachment 267491
> I disapprove




The disapproving bunnies, who came before, disapprove of your disapproval.


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> The disapproving bunnies, who came before, disapprove of your disapproval.
> View attachment 267493


----------



## Malmuria

Now that you mention it, this is a great question to discuss on this dog forum: what _does_ give life meaning?


----------



## Aeson

Malmuria said:


> Now that you mention it, this is a great question to discuss on this dog forum: what _does_ give life meaning?



Funny cat memes.


----------



## MarkB

Malmuria said:


> Now that you mention it, this is a great question to discuss on this dog forum: what _does_ give life meaning?



Old Terry Pratchett memes.

"What is best in life?"

"Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper."


----------



## payn




----------



## Umbran

payn said:


>




"Honey?  The turkey's possessed again!"


----------



## payn

Umbran said:


> "Honey?  The turkey's possessed again!"



Self tenderizing...


----------



## prabe

Umbran said:


> "Honey?  The turkey's possessed again!"



*Again?*


----------



## Umbran

prabe said:


> *Again?*




Don't look at me!  I'm not the one who bought from Netherworld Poultry Farms!


----------



## darjr

This is not a roll-eyes emoji


----------



## Gradine

Sure, I'll be the weirdo that defends canned cranberry sauce. It's the nostalgia. It harkens back to a younger, simpler time, where the family gathered around the table. The cranberry sauce had grooves imprinted on it like the good lord intended, we avoided the overcooked turkey at all costs, the pumpkin pie served primarily as a Cool Whip delivery device, and I didn't really understand what Ranma was so upset about, anyway.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> View attachment 267547
> 
> This is not a roll-eyes emoji




It isn't?  So, now the dog is possessed too?!?


----------



## darjr

Umbran said:


> It isn't?  So, now the dog is possessed too?!?



Yes? It’s a corgi.


----------



## Umbran

darjr said:


> Yes? It’s a corgi.




So, possessed _BY THE QUEEN_?


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> Sure, I'll be the weirdo that defends canned cranberry sauce. It's the nostalgia. It harkens back to a younger, simpler time, where the family gathered around the table. The cranberry sauce had grooves imprinted on it like the good lord intended, we avoided the overcooked turkey at all costs, the pumpkin pie served primarily as a Cool Whip delivery device, and I didn't really understand what Ranma was so upset about, anyway.



That nostalgia is real.  One year I made my cranberry sauce as usual, but after it finished cooking I poured it into a clean metal can and let it set in the fridge _just so it would have those grooves on it._  Once it had set completely, I cut the bottom out of the can and pushed it out onto the serving plate and sliced it, just like the cranberry sauce of my childhood.


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Sure, I'll be the weirdo that defends canned cranberry sauce. It's the nostalgia. It harkens back to a younger, simpler time, where the family gathered around the table. The cranberry sauce had grooves imprinted on it like the good lord intended, we avoided the overcooked turkey at all costs, the pumpkin pie served primarily as a Cool Whip delivery device, and I didn't really understand what Ranma was so upset about, anyway.



I can understand the nostalgia, but cant participate in this instance. I have a visceral reaction to processed foods. Growing up my mother always bought the worst products. Velveeta and Kraft singles, white bread, miracle whip, canned mushrooms, veggies, cranberries, etc... I grew up thinking food was simply disgusting and since discovering that food is actually good, I dont want to ever go back.


----------



## Scribe

"There is only one Good, and its based upon an American, extremely online world view of what good is." - Enworld Perspective's on Alignment, 2022.


----------



## Gradine

"...now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet, 1987


----------



## Scribe

(87? Lord I'm old...)


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


>



Do _NOT_ cast Raise Dead on the turkey!


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


>



Thanksgiving Day twerkey, just like grandma used to make.


----------



## RealAlHazred

"Enjoy your homebrew and semi-legal content while you can, but soon the Big Game Company will pull the plug on their blanket permission statement and the wildly-popular and profitable online store they made to support their game" seems to be a weird flex, but okay, dude.


----------



## Cadence

A smiley face would have helped if one was intended...  it was... wasn't it...   please?


----------



## Gradine

Oh hey, a new thread, let's see what-


----------



## Mad_Jack

Umbran said:


> But today, we understand better that math is better described as a _substance_ than a collection of discrete objects.




 Which goes a long way toward explaining why so many people online try to back up their ridiculous claims with numbers that make no sense - clearly, they've been smoking their math...


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> Which goes a long way toward explaining why so many people online try to back up their ridiculous claims with numbers that make no sense - clearly, they've been smoking their math...



Damned Math Labs.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Damned Math Labs.



It seems as though some "experimental math" joke should be possible, here, but as an English major I'm probably not the one to make it.


----------



## Aeson

Great! Now Fox News is going to start warning parents about the evils of math.


----------



## Aeson

prabe said:


> It seems as though some "experimental math" joke should be possible, here, but as an English major I'm probably not the one to make it.



I experimented with math in school. I didn't like it.


----------



## Umbran

J.Quondam said:


> Thanksgiving Day twerkey, just like grandma used to make.




I think discussing your grandma's twerking probably violates the Grandma Rule.


----------



## Umbran

Aeson said:


> I experimented with math in school. I didn't like it.




It is good for you.  Builds character.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> It is good for you.  *Builds character.*



Literally, if you use randomizers with your math(s).*

* Or not, point-buy is fine!


----------



## Aeson

One day I'll be on Dr. Phil talking about my addiction to math.


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> One day I'll be on Dr. Phil talking about my addiction to math.


----------



## darjr

I didn’t put pineapple on the pizza because you hate it. I put it there cause that’s where it belongs!


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> View attachment 267605



Crystal math will lift you up until you break ...


----------



## RealAlHazred

Aeson said:


> One day I'll be on Dr. Phil talking about my addiction to math.



Addiction to math rocks is a real thing that afflicts thousands of gamers every year! But can you ever really have _enough _math rocks?...


----------



## RealAlHazred

As another aside, when logging onto ENWorld and I saw "20 new notifcations," I had the momentary thought of, "Oh God, what did I _*say*_?"


----------



## Scribe

Do people still ask, what is your 5 year plan in interviews?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Scribe said:


> Do people still ask, what is your 5 year plan in interviews?



Yes. And it's exactly as dumb a question now as it has been.


----------



## overgeeked

Y’all need Socrates.

I’m having flashbacks of bad philo 101 arguments.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> Y’all need Socrates.
> 
> I’m having flashbacks of bad philo 101 arguments.



I object to the implication there are *good* Phil 101 arguments.


----------



## Mad_Jack

RealAlHazred said:


> Addiction to math rocks is a real thing that afflicts thousands of gamers every year! But can you ever really have _enough _math rocks?...








One of my three full dice bags, and I've given away more dice over the years than I currently own.
(Some of these go back to my original Basic Set, others are old Gamma World or Star Frontiers...)

I've officially reached the point, after forty years of addiction, that only the really high-quality shiny ones or really strange and interesting ones do it for me anymore...




RealAlHazred said:


> As another aside, when logging onto ENWorld and I saw "20 new notifcations," I had the momentary thought of, "Oh God, what did I _*say*_?"




 I hear that... Anytime I see more than one or two notifications I immediately try to recall whether or not I posted anything particularly funny the last time I was on. If not, I have to start wondering what the hell I posted that was controversial.


----------



## Hussar

Umbran said:


> I think discussing your grandma's twerking probably violates the Grandma Rule.



Hey En World's grandma is a GILF.


----------



## billd91

You know, if your reading of the rules makes the rule problematic, maybe don’t read them like that.


----------



## billd91

I believe I’ve now seen the most ridiculous post in ENWorld to date.


----------



## Umbran

Scribe said:


> Do people still ask, what is your 5 year plan in interviews?




Yes.  Along with the idiot question, "So why are you interested in this position?"

Because I need a job to pay the mortgage and get health insurance, you numbskull!


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> I believe I’ve now seen the most ridiculous post in ENWorld to date.




You have been around long enough to remember Bugaboo, haven't you?


----------



## billd91

Umbran said:


> You have been around long enough to remember Bugaboo, haven't you?



Silly, yes. But it’s not like Bugaboo ever gave the impression he was really serious, and thus not quite as ridiculous.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Umbran said:


> Yes.  Along with the idiot question, "So why are you interested in this position?"




 Sheer masochism, low self-esteem, and a subconscious desire to work myself into an early grave, mainly.


----------



## CleverNickName

The worst, dumbest question I've ever been asked in a job interview:

Q: What would you say your biggest flaw is?
A:  Gosh sir, I'm a terrible workaholic.  I'm also a perfectionist, I try too hard, I care too much, etc. 

Seriously, is that a question about me in general, or is that just an IQ test?


----------



## Umbran

billd91 said:


> Silly, yes. But it’s not like Bugaboo ever gave the impression he was really serious, and thus quite as ridiculous.




The silliness was in the people who took him seriously....


----------



## Galandris

Honestly, the 5 years plan can make sense sometimes, to check if the candidate has inquired into the job to know what he can expect in terms of progression over time*. Or to know if you'd like to multiclass to warlord apply to management position in time, when you're applying for a mid-level technical position, for example. This is far from the worst question I was ever asked.

* Of course, that works only for companies that have long term perspective form their employees and don't see them totally as expandable workforce. There are fewer of them than in the past.


----------



## trappedslider

MST3K Turkey Day Marathon 2022 :: Shout! Factory TV | Live Events
					






					shoutfactorytvlive.com


----------



## RealAlHazred

Galandris said:


> Honestly, the 5 years plan can make sense sometimes, to check if the candidate has inquired into the job to know what he can expect in terms of progression over time*.



See, I frequently saw that question when interviewing for temp positions in IT. It's like, "You specified you wanted me to work for _six months_ on a _specific thing_. Is it really a surprise if I see myself working _somewhere else_ afterwards? Are you... are you expecting me to pine away, like this was the One True Job I'll Never Get Over Losing?"


----------



## Mannahnin

"Why, after this six month contract I intend to have enough money saved up for my expedition to fabled El Dorado!  Five years from now I expect to be as rich as Creosus and ruling a mountain kingdom of gold, with nubile servants at my feet and funds enough to buy into every Kickstarter I want AND afford shipping to the Andes!"


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mannahnin said:


> "Why, after this six month contract I intend to have enough money saved up for my expedition to fabled El Dorado!  Five years from now I expect to be as rich as Creosus and ruling a mountain kingdom of gold, with nubile servants at my feet and funds enough to buy into every Kickstarter I want AND afford shipping to the Andes!"



Interviewer: "Uh... We don't really have a box for that... I'll just put down, 'Retired.'"


----------



## Galandris

RealAlHazred said:


> See, I frequently saw that question when interviewing for temp positions in IT. It's like, "You specified you wanted me to work for _six months_ on a _specific thing_. Is it really a surprise if I see myself working _somewhere else_ afterwards? Are you... are you expecting me to pine away, like this was the One True Job I'll Never Get Over Losing?"



Well, in this context it _is_ really a dumb question.

My dumbest question ever asked was when I changed sector and I was asked, like "I see you hold a permanent position in sector A, and you apply directly to a permanent position in sector B. Why didn't you resign from your job and apply first for an internship or temp position in this new sector?"

I wanted to tell "because if I was dumb enough to consider resigning before securing something else, you'd better not hire me..." (but I held my tongue).

BUT it can't compete with the dumbest question ever _overall_, that was in HR manual for public service up to 2000 or so... "If you had been in service during the Occupation, would you have collaborated with the Nazis?" (Hint: "yes" was not the expected answer).


----------



## Scribe

Galandris said:


> BUT it can't compete with the dumbest question ever _overall_, that was in HR manual for public service up to 2000 or so... "If you had been in service during the Occupation, would you have collaborated with the Nazis?" (Hint: "yes" was not the expected answer).




lol what?


----------



## Galandris

Scribe said:


> lol what?




I suspect the question was legitimate at first, formulated as "What did you do under the Nazi occupation?" in the 50s and was changed as a generation passed... to be left as an artifact among HR manuals as valid topic for interviews... until someone had the sense to review them.


----------



## Scribe

Galandris said:


> I suspect the question was legitimate at first, formulated as "What did you do under the Nazi occupation?" in the 50s and was changed as a generation passed... to be left as an artifact among HR manuals as valid topic for interviews... until someone had the sense to review them.




My initial thought was 'this is a gag question, to see how one would react to something outlandish being asked of them' but yeah I guess that works too.


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> See, I frequently saw that question when interviewing for temp positions in IT. It's like, "You specified you wanted me to work for _six months_ on a _specific thing_. Is it really a surprise if I see myself working _somewhere else_ afterwards? Are you... are you expecting me to pine away, like this was the One True Job I'll Never Get Over Losing?"



I got that question in an interview for a 3 year contract position. I've always thought it was a stupid question and still do to this day. I was asked it in a three person panel interview. My answer was, "Working here as a full time employee." Been there almost 24 years now.


----------



## trappedslider

ME: _first day as a detective_ So where did the mugger come from?
VICTIM: I don't know
ME: And where did he go?
VICTIM: I didn't see
ME: _scribbling 'Probably Cotton Eye Joe' in my notebook_ Thank you


----------



## Mad_Jack

Galandris said:


> I suspect the question was legitimate at first, formulated as "What did you do under the Nazi occupation?" in the 50s and was changed as a generation passed... to be left as an artifact among HR manuals as valid topic for interviews... until someone had the sense to review them.




At least it got reviewed...
 It wasn't until sometime in the 1950's that the state of Connecticut finally got rid of the law dating back to colonial times that said if a judge deemed your child incorrigible, you could have them turned over to the state Militia to be shot...
(I would have been dead by the age of ten, lol.)


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## darjr




----------



## payn

Cranberry sauce is done, stuffing in the oven. Soon, its off to hear the band and sing some karaoke. Love me some drinksgiving.


----------



## Mad_Jack

I'll be celebrating Thanksgiving by leaving the damn turkey in the freezer until I actually need to eat it and roundly cursing the stupid holidays for preventing me from doing things I need to do...

On the other hand, I do have a random box of stuffing sitting in the cabinet (for about a month now) that has nothing to do with Thanksgiving, so I may have that for lunch. Yes, I am going to eat a box of stuffing for lunch. I are adulting.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

My family just caught Covid-19 for the second time this year, so we had to cancel our plans for Thanksgiving. Luckily, none of us are doing too bad, it just sucks that we can't meet with relatives.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> View attachment 267719



Ok, seriously, you're drunk, Corgi. Sit! Stay! Play dead! Perfect.


----------



## Cadence

Happy Turkey Day to all y'all who celebrate it (and a great day to the rest too).


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Happy Turkey Day to all y'all who celebrate it (and a great day to the rest too).







Me this morning...


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## darjr




----------



## darjr

Them: You put pineapple on my pizza forcing me to buy another!
Me: There isn't any pineapple on your Pizza?!
Them: And you hid it so well no one would know!!!!!


----------



## MarkB

darjr said:


> Them: You put pineapple on my pizza forcing me to buy another!
> Me: There isn't any pineapple on your Pizza?!
> Them: And you hid it so well no one would know!!!!!



The pineapple you can see is not the pineapple you have to fear.


----------



## Malmuria

the dream of the 90s is alive in enworld


----------



## Aeson

MarkB said:


> The pineapple you can see is not the pineapple you have to fear.



It's the pineapple ninjas that get me everytime.


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


>



That time of year, again, when they fall from the sky like sacks of wet cement ...


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


>



Oh, the humanity.


----------



## MarkB

prabe said:


> That time of year, again, when they fall from the sky like sacks of wet cement ...



It's the stuffing that does it to them.


----------



## Aeson

MarkB said:


> It's the stuffing that does it to them.



I thought it's that they're dead and frozen.


----------



## Scribe

"I'm Old Testament."


----------



## overgeeked

“Your choice is fish” isn’t really a choice.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> “Your choice is fish” isn’t really a choice.



Fish: The only choice.


----------



## Aeson

I've lost count of the times I've said "I'm gonna eat you, little fishy" when I'm eating fish, or just spontaneously for no reason.


----------



## darjr

Ugh another review and another mindless complaint about the cover not being a Larry Elmore. 

Almost called them too cheap.

And before you jump, it was about the Novel!


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> I've lost count of the times I've said "I'm gonna eat you, little fishy" when I'm eating fish, or just spontaneously for no reason.



For me it's saying, "Fish!" when it's seafood for dinner.


----------



## MarkB

overgeeked said:


> “Your choice is fish” isn’t really a choice.



They have a wide selection.


----------



## J.Quondam

Infinite fish in infinite combinations.


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


>




 I once had a turkey fly right into the open window of my minivan as I was driving on the highway... fascinatingly, that was actually the_ second_ time I've had to punch a turkey in the face repeatedly.


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> I once had a turkey fly right into the open window of my minivan as I was driving on the highway... fascinatingly, that was actually the_ second_ time I've had to punch a turkey in the face repeatedly.



Sounds like a "Hot Fuzz" moment.


----------



## Scribe

I think I've just come to the conclusion that the small bit of background in new race write up's is actually more than sufficient. I'm 99% sure that 'fantasy culture' is actually irrelevant, and not a meaningful contribution to nearly the entire played experience.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Scribe said:


> I think I've just come to the conclusion that the small bit of background in new race write up's is actually more than sufficient. I'm 99% sure that 'fantasy culture' is actually irrelevant, and not a meaningful contribution to nearly the entire played experience.



I think that if the books just said "Goblin" and gave its player/monster stats, 90% of DMs and players would have enough imagination to find how they fit in their game.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Sounds like a "Hot Fuzz" moment.




 Oh, I'm sure it _looked_ hysterical... 
On the other hand, driving down the highway at sixty miles an hour while trying to steer with your knees and simultaneously engaging in an MMA fight with a panicked thirty-lb. bird in an enclosed space is not something I'd care to try again.
(At least with the first time I got into a fight with a turkey (a flock of them, actually) I had a broomstick and enough room to swing it.)

I have no idea what the officially published CR of a turkey is, but I'm sure it's been vastly underrated.


----------



## Scribe

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> I think that if the books just said "Goblin" and gave its player/monster stats, 90% of DMs and players would have enough imagination to find how they fit in their game.




For all the usual types? 100%


----------



## Scribe

Mad_Jack said:


> On the other hand, driving down the highway at sixty miles an hour while trying to steer with your knees and simultaneously engaging in an MMA fight with a panicked thirty-lb. bird in an enclosed space is not something I'd care to try again.




My Mom almost drove us off the highway over a _moth _I can say with certainty that in your scenario, we would have been dead.


----------



## Ryujin

Mad_Jack said:


> Oh, I'm sure it _looked_ hysterical...
> On the other hand, driving down the highway at sixty miles an hour while trying to steer with your knees and simultaneously engaging in an MMA fight with a panicked thirty-lb. bird in an enclosed space is not something I'd care to try again.
> (At least with the first time I got into a fight with a turkey (a flock of them, actually) I had a broomstick and enough room to swing it.)
> 
> I have no idea what the officially published CR of a turkey is, but I'm sure it's been vastly underrated.











						Dire Turkey: Lord Tomnus the Gobbler - Dragonlance Nexus
					

The Dire Turkey and the Beast Lord of the Turkeys. Read More




					dragonlancenexus.com


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Scribe said:


> For all the usual types? 100%



Well, for most D&D races, IMO. The ones that don't have immediately recognizable names for people not familiar with D&D could just be simplified into their core identities (Genasi could be "Half-Genie", Harengon could be "Rabbitfolk", Tiefling could be "Devilspawn", and so on).


----------



## Mad_Jack

Scribe said:


> My Mom almost drove us off the highway over a _moth _I can say with certainty that in your scenario, we would have been dead.




 Unfortunately, I've had more than a couple opportunities in my life to demonstrate that I'm not the type who panics in dangerous situations. On the upside, though, I do have a pretty cool scar collection and some hella funny war stories...


----------



## Malmuria

So, wotc needs a change in direction because they haven’t made enough forgotten realms books. Even though it’s the default setting and the setting for almost every adventure. Even though it’s the most exhaustively detailed fantasy setting ever, probably. At least, I find it exhausting


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Malmuria said:


> So, wotc needs a change in direction because they haven’t made enough forgotten realms books. Even though it’s the default setting and the setting for almost every adventure. Even though it’s the most exhaustively detailed fantasy setting ever, probably. At least, I find it exhausting



I think Wizards of the Coast haven't made enough official Eberron books in 5e. Clearly, Elon Musk needs to buy WotC and make them publish more Eberron books!


----------



## Cadence

Anyway, iirc, one of the goal is to not turn this into obviously paralleling other threads, because the Mods have implied/said that pretty strongly in the past.

Analogies and a bit of veiling seem to work.  Literally dropping in something that would fit in the other thread and going back and forth feels like it might not.


----------



## Scribe

"War it is then...pineapple."


----------



## darjr

Hey no fair! I haven’t called WotC liars and thieves yet!


----------



## Umbran

Cadence said:


> Anyway, iirc, one of the goal is to not turn this into obviously paralleling other threads, because the Mods have implied/said that pretty strongly in the past.
> 
> Analogies and a bit of veiling seem to work.  Literally dropping in something that would fit in the other thread and going back and forth feels like it might not.




Broadly, yes.

Consider it this way - if there's something that you want to say in another thread, but you know you shouldn't because it'd have bad results... it is _still visible here_.  If someone from that other thread sees it, you still have the same problem, the same bad results, with the addition of looking kind of passive-aggressive about it.

We can't support this thread if it becomes snide back-biting.  If it is a place to share a little of the common frustrations of messageboards, it is more constructive.

Folks should be able to read what you write and go, "Yeah, I've been there too," not "I know exactly what argument you are talking about, let us continue it here."


----------



## Cadence

Not at anything in this thread...

I will not passively aggressively use the laughing emoji, I will not passively aggressively use the laughing emoji, ...


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> Not at anything in this thread...
> 
> I will not passively aggressively use the laughing emoji, I will not passively aggressively use the laughing emoji, ...



This can be a hard habit to break from other forums.


----------



## Ryujin

I never use the laughing emoji passive-aggressively. I'm Canadian. We are Olympic level passive-aggressives at birth. No visual aids are necessary.


----------



## trappedslider

I'm not passive-aggressive unlike some people.


----------



## payn




----------



## AnotherGuy

I miss the days of absurd humour. When people were a little less sensitive.


----------



## Scribe

The Pineapple has entered the material realm, we have crossed the streams.


----------



## DeviousQuail

Saw a thread with an interesting question. Read the first couple of pages and found some interesting points. Noticed there were a dozen more pages so I decided to skip to the last few to see where the conversation was currently before answering the OP's question. The most recent posts were about genocide and decided not to post anything.

Sometimes you miss the window of opportunity.


----------



## overgeeked

Gamers using the letter of the rules to defeat the spirit of the rules? _Gamers_? Why I never.


----------



## MarkB

overgeeked said:


> Gamers using the letter of the rules to defeat the spirit of the rules? _Gamers_? Why I never.



If we weren't supposed to defeat spirits, they wouldn't be in the Monster Manual.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Gamers using the letter of the rules to defeat the spirit of the rules? _Gamers_? Why I never.



There needs to be a variant of the Wizard class called the Rules Lawyer, that bends reality to his will.


----------



## overgeeked

MarkB said:


> If we weren't supposed to defeat spirits, they wouldn't be in the Monster Manual.



You shouldn't be reading the Monster Manual. Two demerits.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> There needs to be a variant of the Wizard class called the Rules Lawyer, that bends reality to his will.



Some of their abilities will be Takes Things Too Literally, Circular Logic, and Selective Reading.


----------



## J.Quondam

overgeeked said:


> Some of their abilities will be Takes Things Too Literally, Circular Logic, and Selective Reading.



And the capstone ability, Rage-quit.


----------



## CleverNickName

I don't think I've ever gotten angry about elves, wizards, Jedi, or other imaginary things.
I must be doing it wrong.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> I don't think I've ever gotten angry about elves, wizards, Jedi, or other imaginary things.
> I must be doing it wrong.



It's only wrong if you're not pounding out online screeds about it.


----------



## Scribe

CleverNickName said:


> I don't think I've ever gotten angry about elves, wizards, Jedi, or other imaginary things.
> I must be doing it wrong.




Wait, am I the only one sustained by righteous indignation?!


----------



## Aeson

Scribe said:


> Wait, am I the only one sustained by righteous indignation?!



Have you met the Republican party?


----------



## Scribe




----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> And the capstone ability, Rage-quit.



With a 9th level spell, table flip


----------



## darjr

Still holding a grudge?

It was 20 years ago!


----------



## Aeson

Rage-quit is a 0 level spell. Anyone can do it, it's just more epic at higher levels.


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> Still holding a grudge?
> 
> It was 20 years ago!



You haven't met my sister. 40 years isn't long enough for her.


----------



## Galandris

darjr said:


> Still holding a grudge?
> 
> It was 20 years ago!




In the spirit of this thread, the thread you're speaking of is unindentiable.

However, I'm betting on midichlorians. And yes, I do. They redeemed Jar-jar Binks, but they never will be pardonned for making the Force a by-products of mitochondria.


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> And the capstone ability, Rage-quit.



I think that you might be confusing Rules Lawyer with Gamer Barbarian.


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> In the spirit of this thread, the thread you're speaking of is unindentiable.
> 
> However, I'm betting on midichlorians. And yes, I do. They redeemed Jar-jar Binks, but they never will be pardonned for making the Force a by-products of mitochondria.



But they're the powerhouse of the cell!


----------



## overgeeked

Brawndo has what plants crave.


----------



## MarkB

overgeeked said:


> You shouldn't be reading the Monster Manual. Two demerits.



As a player, certainly. That's why I made sure to only read it when I was DMing.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## MarkB

trappedslider said:


>


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> There needs to be a variant of the Wizard class called the Rules Lawyer, that bends reality to his will.




 Wouldn't it be a Warlord, though? Yelling loudly at things until they change is kind of their gig...




trappedslider said:


>




In CAR WARS, one of the weapons that came out in a magazine supplement was the Existential Blue Crayon Gun...

It fired paint rounds in a color called Existential Blue, that made your car's armor so depressed that it stopped functioning.


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


>



Or a mother that tells you you'll never marry, because you're too something (ugly, fat, etc.) can get the same results.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Aeson said:


> Or a mother that tells you you'll never marry, because you're too something (ugly, fat, etc.) can get the same results.




 I'm not sure taking my character's mother with him on adventures so that she can nag and criticize the bad guys to death is worth having to put up with her for the whole adventure....


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> Or a mother that tells you you'll never marry, because you're too something (ugly, fat, etc.) can get the same results.



Bad mothers automatically get Vicious Mockery as a class spell.


----------



## Aeson

Mad_Jack said:


> I'm not sure taking my character's mother with him on adventures so that she can nag and criticize the bad guys to death is worth having to put up with her for the whole adventure....



Who said it's his choice? She'll plague him like that dude on Andor. I'm surprised she didn't follow him to Ferrix.


----------



## trappedslider

Aeson said:


> Or a mother that tells you you'll never marry, because you're too something (ugly, fat, etc.) can get the same results.



I was gonna say this but then you posted it


Aeson said:


> Who said it's his choice? She'll plague him like that dude on Andor. I'm surprised she didn't follow him to Ferrix.



dang it...


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Aeson

I sidetracked a thread talking about the lore of a setting instead of the RAW topic of the thread. Someone comes at me with lore from a different setting thinking it proves me wrong somehow?


----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


>



Lucky for her she's cute, she's a terrible poet.


----------



## Deset Gled

Who's the bigger troll: the troll that makes the thread, the trolls who troll in the thread, or those that troll the trolls in the thread?


----------



## CleverNickName

Deset Gled said:


> Who's the bigger troll: the troll that makes the thread, the trolls who troll in the thread, or those that troll the trolls in the thread?



There is only one size of troll:  "One Size Fits Elsewhere."


----------



## Ryujin

Those who troll the trolls in the thread are performing a public service.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Those who troll the trolls in the thread are performing a public service.



Because that leads to lots of reports to the mods who nuke the thread?  (Which, for a lot of threads seems a public service...)


----------



## AnotherGuy

It is clear the servants of Vaprak are unhappy with the current Ordning


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Because that leads to lots of reports to the mods who nuke the thread?  (Which, for a lot of threads seems a public service...)



Hopefully nuking the trolls, too, and not just the thread.


----------



## billd91

Boy, am I sick of *that* crap.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Who's the bigger troll: the troll that makes the thread, the trolls who troll in the thread, or those that troll the trolls in the thread?




No thread is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the forum,
A part of the main.
If a clod be posting away on that thread,
Enworld is the less.
As well as if the clod posts a slur.
As well as if the clod tries to pwn
Or if the mod warning do re-occur.
Each thread's locking diminishes me,
For I am involved in all threads.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the clod trolls,
The clod trolls for thee.


----------



## Cadence

Someone completely mistook what was in one edition for another... and no one has called them on it and made a big deal out of it for like five posts.  What has happened to everyone's pedantry?  Or is no one actually reading the posts?


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> There is only one size of troll:  "One Size Fits Elsewhere."


----------



## overgeeked

Cadence said:


> Someone completely mistook what was in one edition for another... and no one has called them on it and made a big deal out of it for like five posts.  What has happened to everyone's pedantry?  Or is no one actually reading the posts?



Judging by how quickly and thoroughly most people misunderstand each other and even argue when they agree with each other, I’m going with no one actually reading the posts.


----------



## Lidgar

Remember:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> Judging by how quickly and thoroughly most people misunderstand each other and even argue when they agree with each other, I’m going with no one actually reading the posts.




Well, yeah, but reading YOUR post might get in the way of MY great point!


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, yeah, but reading YOUR post might get in the way of MY great point!



Yeah. Just like in conversation. Most people don’t listen, they use the quiet time to think about how the other person’s wrong.


----------



## Cadence

overgeeked said:


> Yeah. Just like in conversation. Most people don’t listen, they use the quiet time to think about how the other person’s wrong.



If only conversations had rules!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> If only conversations had rules!


----------



## Mannahnin

overgeeked said:


> Judging by how quickly and thoroughly most people misunderstand each other and even argue when they agree with each other, I’m going with no one actually reading the posts.



I'm pretty sure I saw it, concluded it was a typo, and deliberately let it go.


----------



## overgeeked

Cadence said:


> If only conversations had rules!



Nah. Rules are boring and for boring people without imagination.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> Nah. Rules are boring and for boring people without imagination.




Well, the unimaginative have descended!

_I do appreciate the new name, at least. Going from O to P is a lot of work! _


----------



## Scribe

Considering that thread...



overgeeked said:


> Judging by how quickly and thoroughly most people misunderstand each other and even argue when they agree with each other, I’m going with no one actually reading the posts.






overgeeked said:


> Yeah. Just like in conversation. Most people don’t listen, they use the quiet time to think about how the other person’s wrong.




Nailed it.


----------



## overgeeked

“I can’t have fun unless the rules tell me to.”


----------



## payn




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> “I can’t have fun unless the rules tell me to.”




*WHAT TYPE OF FUN CAN YOU HAVE? (d6)*
1. None. Every party needs a pooper, and that's why they invited you. 
2. A wee bit, but if you have any more, you'll get struck down by the fun police. 
3. Fun is for other people. You will have work. 
4. You'll have fun until the GM takes your t-bird away.
5. You're gonna party hard like Andrew W.K. 
6. This fun goes to 11.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> “I can’t have fun unless the rules tell me to.”



Or, "I have more fun playing a game the better I know how to play it."

But I'm sure your take is the correct one.


----------



## Deset Gled

Snarf Zagyg said:


> No thread is an island,
> Entire of itself.
> Each is a piece of the forum,
> A part of the main.
> If a clod be posting away on that thread,
> Enworld is the less.
> As well as if the clod posts a slur.
> As well as if the clod tries to pwn
> Or if the mod warning do re-occur.
> Each thread's locking diminishes me,
> For I am involved in all threads.
> Therefore, send not to know
> For whom the clod trolls,
> The clod trolls for thee.




Well said, but feels very high brow compared to the subject matter.  I was thinking more along the lines of:

OP started a troll thread, a troll thread, a troll thread,
OP started a troll thread, and summoned other trolls.

And everywhere that bait was set, bait was set, bait was set,
Everywhere that bait was set, the mods were sure to go.


----------



## RealAlHazred

My one real pet peeve in threads is when the OP asks "what is a good game for [x] which has the features of [y, z]" and several people respond with Their Favorite Game, even if it has _none _of those features. But you _can _make it do [y] if you become an _expert _in it, ands nobody _really_ wants [z] in their game, and blah blah blah. I don't engage, but those posts irk me more than they should.


----------



## CleverNickName

What do we want?
CLICKBAIT!
When do we want it?
YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT SHE DID NEXT!


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> What do we want?
> CLICKBAIT!
> When do we want it?
> YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT SHE DID NEXT!



Tired of trolls in your threads? Try these 7 tricks! Number 3 will SHOCK YOU!


----------



## CleverNickName

*Scene's from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
Act IV, Scene V

Tasha's: * Hello there, welcome to Tahsa's Pizzeria of Everything!
*Customer: * Um, do you have pineapple?
*Tasha's: * Of course, we have everything!
*Customer:  *Wonderful.  I'll take an extra large pineapple and bacon, please.
*Tasha's: *Coming right up!
*Next Customer: * I can't believe you're putting pineapple on that person's pizza!  Why would you do such a thing?
*Tasha's: * Um, because the customer ordered it?
*Next Customer: * Unbelievable!
*Tasha's:  *It's not that unbelievable, I mean, it's my job to give customers what they want.
*Next Customer:  *Oh yeah?  Is that a fact?
*Tasha's: * Yes, actually.
*Next Customer:  *Fine, then.  Here's what I want:  I want you to never put pineapple on anyone's pizza ever again.  Ha!
*First Customer: * What is wrong with you?
*Next Customer:  *Hush, you.  I'm _helping people._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Well said, but feels very high brow compared to the subject matter.  I was thinking more along the lines of:
> 
> OP started a troll thread, a troll thread, a troll thread,
> OP started a troll thread, and summoned other trolls.
> 
> And everywhere that bait was set, bait was set, bait was set,
> Everywhere that bait was set, the mods were sure to go.




I think that I shall never see
A troll make a thread less crappy

A troll who knows that they are a pest
And make us all that much more stress'd;

A troll that pokes and prods all day,
And delights in causing such a fray;

A troll that whines that mods are unfair
While laying word traps to again ensnare;

That makes you wonder if they're sane;
Even whilst they are your bane.

Trolls exist to frustrate me,
And I act out, they move on with glee.


----------



## CleverNickName

*Scenes from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
Final Scene

Tasha's: * Welcome to Tasha's!
*Customer:  *I'm back!
*Tasha's:*  Ah.  It's you again.  The pineapple weirdo.
*Customer:  *Did you miss me?
*Tasha's:  *Um, sure?
*Customer: *Well, after you threw me out six months ago for _telling the truth _about pineapple, I went out and started my _own _pizzeria.
*Tasha's: * That's great!
*Customer:  *It's called "OneTruePizza" and instead of asking customers what they want, we _tell them_ what they're going to have!
*Tasha's:  *A bold strategy.  So, ah, aggressive.
*Customer:  *Thanks, it was all my idea.  And the best part?  Absolutely no pineapple!
*Tasha's:*  Yeah, I figured.
*Customer:*  It's not even allowed in the parking lot!
*Tasha's:  *Nice. So how's business?
*Customer:*  . . .
*Tasha's: * Going well, I hope?
*Customer:*  . . .

(Customer never answers, just glares in angry silence as the lights go down.)

_(curtain)_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> *Scenes from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
> Final Scene*




Larry David needs to stop hanging out at Tasha's Pizzeria.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Larry David needs to stop hanging out at Tasha's Pizzeria.




To be fair, most customers are human beings, and if you've ever met a group of those ... We'll, he's not wrong, is he?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> To be fair, most customers are human beings, and if you've ever met a group of those ... We'll, he's not wrong, is he?


----------



## trappedslider

this is pretty cool Meta researchers create AI that masters Diplomacy, tricking human players


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

If we can all predict how you'll post on any given thread where you appear, it might be time for you to log off and walk the dog.


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> this is pretty cool Meta researchers create AI that masters Diplomacy, tricking human players



Yeah, I saw that, too. Are real DMing AIs not too far off?
More importantly, are bots that argue about rules and narrative and race preference and so forth right behind? 

_....Or are they already here? _


----------



## prabe

J.Quondam said:


> Yeah, I saw that, too. Are real DMing AIs not too far off?
> More importantly, are bots that argue about rules and narrative and race preference and so forth right behind?
> 
> _....Or are they already here? _


----------



## overgeeked

trappedslider said:


> this is pretty cool Meta researchers create AI that masters Diplomacy, tricking human players



Such a cool game. Perfect example of how the game doesn’t actually need rules to cover the central premise of the game. It’s called Diplomacy, it teaches diplomacy and realpolitik, and there are no rules about either in the game.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> If we can all predict how you'll post on any given thread where you appear, it might be time for you to log off and walk the dog.




My dog is named _Bards Suck. _


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> this is pretty cool Meta researchers create AI that masters Diplomacy, tricking human players



The trickiest part is in the beginning. The game is most fluid then. Later it becomes pretty obvious who you should ally with and what moves to make. The beginning seems like the most challenging point. Yes, Diplomacy is a fantastic game.


----------



## trappedslider

This part makes me wonder what it would REALLY be like if they hadn't



> Meta hopes other researchers can build on its code "in a responsible manner," and says it has taken steps toward *detecting and removing "toxic messages in this new domain,"* which likely refers to dialog Cicero learned from the Internet texts it ingested—always a risk for large language models.{/quote]
> 
> If they REALLY wanted to see if they could fool humans they should leave those messages in.


----------



## CleverNickName

I almost created a thread titled, "Bards, Monks, and Other Rogue Subclasses" but stopped myself at the last minute.
Y'all aren't ready.


----------



## overgeeked

trappedslider said:


> This part makes me wonder what it would REALLY be like if they hadn't



All the toxic bits of the web concentrated and turned up to 11. It wouldn’t have fooled people any more or less, it would only cause people to pay more or less attention.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> I almost created a thread titled, "Bards, Monks, and Other Rogue Subclasses" but stopped myself at the last minute.
> Y'all aren't ready.



You forgot rangers.


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> You forgot rangers.



I'll do "Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers, and Other Fighter Subclasses" next time.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> I'll do "Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers, and Other Fighter Subclasses" next time.



Nah. Rangers are forest rogues, not bow fighters.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I almost created a thread titled, "Bards, Monks, and Other Rogue Subclasses" but stopped myself at the last minute.
> Y'all aren't ready.




You meant THIEF subclasses, didn't you?

Also, Bards aren't a subclass. They are an appendix class. What is an appendix class? A useless vestige that can be cut out of the game without any real loss.


----------



## payn

The only thing you can count on in life, death, taxes, and whiny ass internet posts about bards.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> The only thing you can count on in life, death, taxes, and whiny ass internet posts about bards.


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> Nah. Rangers are forest rogues, not bow fighters.



Like I said, y'all aren't ready.

Paladins are just fighters who went to church.  Once.
Barbarians are just angry fighters.
I considered for a moment whether the monk was actually a fighter, but settled on rogue because honestly?  It isn't that good at fighting but I _have_ felt robbed after playing one.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> Like I said, y'all aren't ready.
> 
> Paladins are just fighters who went to church.  Once.
> Barbarians are just angry fighters.
> I considered for a moment whether the monk was actually a fighter, but settled on rogue because honestly?  It isn't that good at fighting but I _have_ felt robbed after playing one.



Exactly. Rangers are forest rogues. You always feel robbed after playing one.


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> I considered for a moment whether the monk was actually a fighter, but settled on rogue because honestly?  It isn't that good at fighting but I _have_ felt robbed after playing one.



The monk--in 5e at least--is passable fighting defensively and as a striker, and so good at trivializing bosses it warps the game. IME and IMO, having played a monk and having one in both the campaigns I'm running.


----------



## Gradine

I thought about playing Diplomacy once but I decided I wanted to still have friends so...


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> I thought about playing Diplomacy once but I decided I wanted to still have friends so...



Play with strangers!


----------



## prabe

Gradine said:


> I thought about playing Diplomacy once but I decided I wanted to still have friends so...



We have found that we and our friends are more likely to remain on friendly terms if we don't play competitive games.


----------



## Gradine

payn said:


> Play with strangers!



Diplomacy with strangers! Check all weapons at the door, please.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> We have found that we and our friends are more likely to remain on friendly terms if we don't play competitive games.




HA! Friends.

Friends are just enemies you haven't made yet.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> You meant THIEF subclasses, didn't you?
> 
> Also, Bards aren't a subclass. They are an appendix class. What is an appendix class? A useless vestige that can be cut out of the game without any real loss.



I once played a 1e Appendix Bard. Bloody useless. All that effort to be bad at everything.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> I once played a 1e Appendix Bard. Bloody useless. All that effort to be bad at everything.




_Those who can, do.

Those who can't, bard._


----------



## prabe

This is probably as much about the players as anything else, but in the 18th-level party I'm DMing for, there's a good argument the two most effective characters are the monk and the bard.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> HA! Friends.
> 
> Friends are just enemies you haven't made yet.



Friends don't let friends watch friends


----------



## billd91

prabe said:


> We have found that we and our friends are more likely to remain on friendly terms if we don't play competitive games.



There's something to be said for having friends you *CAN* play competitive games with, particular of the "inevitable betrayal" sort like Diplomacy or Republic of Rome.


----------



## Asisreo

prabe said:


> This is probably as much about the players as anything else, but in the 18th-level party I'm DMing for, there's a good argument the two most effective characters are the monk and the bard.



If I were to be so bold, I'd even say that perhaps people's mileage may vary with classes and...

_sigh_ I really want to make a thread but I know, *know* what it would devolve into...


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> There's something to be said for having friends you *CAN* play competitive games with, particular of the "inevitable betrayal" sort like Diplomacy or Republic of Rome.



In principle, yes.

In practice ... I don't much like who I am when I'm playing those sorts of games, and I don't think my friends do, either. My wife has been on the receiving end of enough bad sportsmanship that she doesn't care for competitive play anymore.


----------



## payn

Asisreo said:


> If I were to be so bold, I'd even say that perhaps people's mileage may vary with classes and...
> 
> _sigh_ I really want to make a thread but I know, *know* what it would devolve into...


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Those who can, do.
> 
> Those who can't, bard._



On the other hand my Pathfinder Fighter/Bard/Arcane Archers tend to be pretty good.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> On the other hand my Pathfinder Fighter/Bard/Arcane Archers tend to be pretty good.




Pathfinder .... pathfinder .... pathfinder .... isn't that some kind of merit badge for the Boy Scouts?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pathfinder .... pathfinder .... pathfinder .... isn't that some kind of merit badge for the Boy Scouts?



Worked pretty well in 3.0/3.5e too


----------



## overgeeked

prabe said:


> In principle, yes.
> 
> In practice ... I don't much like who I am when I'm playing those sorts of games, and I don't think my friends do, either. My wife has been on the receiving end of enough bad sportsmanship that she doesn't care for competitive play anymore.



Sportsmanship in gaming is one of the reasons I prefer to play older editions of D&D or WFRP. The players know to expect their characters to not be the big damn heroes and the main protagonists in an epic fantasy novel, so they can accept things like wounds, injuries, character death, magical mishaps, miscasts, etc while being a good sport about it. It's a game with randomness and death. Don't throw the controller just because you suffered a setback or lost a character. Pat yourself on the back for making it that far and push ahead or roll up a new character and see how far that one gets. It's a game, just play.

Same with competitiveness and cooperation. The players know that it's not the referee competing against them when obstacles occur or bad dice rolls happen. It's just part of the game. They don't take it personally and don't get bent out of shape. I've never seen an old-school player rage quit because they took damage or lost a character for example. If the referee was in competition with the players, the referee could simply declare they win. "Rocks fall, everyone dies" or "infinite dragons appear" or some other nonsense. You also don't see competitiveness in the form of power gaming. 

There's always been rules lawyers, unfortunately. Yet another reason to sack the rules or play black-box games.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> Sportsmanship in gaming is one of the reasons I prefer to play older editions of D&D or WFRP. The players know to expect their characters to not be the big damn heroes and the main protagonists in an epic fantasy novel, so they can accept things like wounds, injuries, character death, magical mishaps, miscasts, etc while being a good sport about it. It's a game with randomness and death. Don't throw the controller just because you suffered a setback or lost a character. Pat yourself on the back for making it that far and push ahead or roll up a new character and see how far that one gets. It's a game, just play.
> 
> Same with competitiveness and cooperation. The players know that it's not the referee competing against them when obstacles occur or bad dice rolls happen. It's just part of the game. They don't take it personally and don't get bent out of shape. I've never seen an old-school player rage quit because they took damage or lost a character for example. If the referee was in competition with the players, the referee could simply declare they win. "Rocks fall, everyone dies" or "infinite dragons appear" or some other nonsense. You also don't see competitiveness in the form of power gaming.
> 
> There's always been rules lawyers, unfortunately. Yet another reason to sack the rules or play black-box games.



I haven't noticed any difference in sportsmanship or cooperation between the various TRPGs I've played, but much of that might be that I've mostly played with the same groups. And my only PC death as a GM has been with 5e.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> I once played a 1e Appendix Bard. Bloody useless. All that effort to be bad at everything.



I played a 1E Appendix Bard back in the day. He never got to do any of the cool adventure things, probably because he was always in the inn having sex.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> And my only PC death as a GM has been with 5e.




_If you ain't killin' PCs, you ain't tryin'.
-_The 1e DMG*



*I'd cite a page number .... but ... you know ....


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _If you ain't killin' PCs, you ain't tryin'.
> -_The 1e DMG*
> 
> 
> 
> *I'd cite a page number .... but ... you know ....



I only ran a very little 1e, so I didn't really have much time.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I only ran a very little 1e, so I didn't really have much time.




Some players will find more enjoyment in spoiling a game than in playing it, and some DMs will find more enjoyment in killing the characters of these players swiftly rather than engaging in arguments with these pouting and childish rules lawyers.  When a degree of expeditiousness is required to swiftly dispatch these irksome louts while taking the minimum of time from the harried DM's schedule, the following table may be of assistance:

*WHAT JUST KILLED THAT CHARACTER?*
01 – 10 Ethereal Mummy
11 – 25 Blue Bolt from the Heavens
26 – 35 Invisible sphere of annihilation
36 – 50 Sudden collapse of tons of rock from above
51 – 65 Spontaneous combustion (similar to a Druid wearing metal armor)
66 – 75 The character was never alive
76 – 85 Stampeding tarrasques
86 – 90 That last decision the PC made? It was the wrong one. Very wrong.
91 – 92 Unstoppable internal rot
93 – 94 A plague of horizontal sentient guillotines
95 – 98 The sudden heat death of the multiverse
99 – 00 Roll twice, and the PC is twice is dead.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Some players will find more enjoyment in spoiling a game than in playing it, and some DMs will find more enjoyment in killing the characters of these players swiftly rather than engaging in arguments with these pouting and childish rules lawyers.  When a degree of expeditiousness is required to swiftly dispatch these irksome louts while taking the minimum of time from the harried DM's schedule, the following table may be of assistance:
> 
> *WHAT JUST KILLED THAT CHARACTER?*
> 01 – 10 Ethereal Mummy
> 11 – 25 Blue Bolt from the Heavens
> 26 – 35 Invisible sphere of annihilation
> 36 – 50 Sudden collapse of tons of rock from above
> 51 – 65 Spontaneous combustion (similar to a Druid wearing metal armor)
> 66 – 75 The character was never alive
> 76 – 85 Stampeding tarrasques
> 86 – 90 That last decision the PC made? It was the wrong one. Very wrong.
> 91 – 92 Unstoppable internal rot
> 93 – 94 A plague of horizontal sentient guillotines
> 95 – 98 The sudden heat death of the multiverse
> 99 – 00 Roll twice, and the PC is twice is dead.



You missed two of my favourites there: "Spontaneous myocardial infarction" and "Assassinated, for practice."

(The second one actually appeared in a 1e adventure by Judge's Guild, back in the day)


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> You missed two of my favourites there: "Spontaneous myocardial infarction" and "Assassinated, for practice."
> 
> (The second one actually appeared in a 1e adventure by Judge's Guild, back in the day)



What about Lupus? I think it's Lupus.


----------



## Deset Gled

RealAlHazred said:


> What about Lupus? I think it's Lupus.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> On the other hand my Pathfinder Fighter/Bard/Arcane Archers tend to be pretty good.



Things Mr. Welch Can't do in Pathfinder
1641. No matter what it says, my intelligent vorpal sword is not getting rewarded with a candy bar.
1658. The words "Rock Opera" will not appear in any of my wishes.
1772. No using EHarmony to find a cleric for the party.
1773. Can't use a wish spell to make the last Star Wars trilogy not suck.
1777. No using goldfish as improvised weapons just to get the dual weapon bonus.
1784. Some grizzfarb says I have to stop making up gnomish profanities.
1825. No taking Peace Activists as favored enemies just because they are easy targets.
1855. Using a barber's razor as a weapon does not make me a barbarian.
1861. Can't take a favored enemy I can't kill for another ten levels.
1882. The monk counts as adamantine when attacking, not when being used as a battering ram.
1915. The following are not acceptable specialties for a weapon master: Mustard Gas, Cheese Grater, Sardonicism.
1997. Better believe if I berserk for two straight hours I'm going to feel it in the morning.
2001. A Saber tooth tiger is not an acceptable second in a duel.
2040. Characters with the curious disadvantage are not acceptable substitutions for the Identify spell.
2052. The following are not acceptable favored enemies: Torries, Cartoon Characters, Wichita Falls.
2061. Note to self: Pinata golems are a bad idea.
2083. 'Fifty Shades of Grey Dwarves' is not the new Duergar sourcebook.2
088. If I have to buy a second warehouse to store all my spare magic weapons, time to retire the character.
2093. Can't trick the dragon into swallowing a shrunken dire porcupine and then ending the spell while he swallows.
2102. I will not make any plan that hinges on the medicinal value of dire wombats.
2123. No regifting cursed items on Christmas.


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> You missed two of my favourites there: "Spontaneous myocardial infarction" and "Assassinated, for practice."
> 
> (The second one actually appeared in a 1e adventure by Judge's Guild, back in the day)



And the old standbys "trusting the NPC who was obviously lying" and "disbelieving the NPC who was obviously telling the truth".


----------



## RealAlHazred

Deset Gled said:


>



It's a few letters off. You think he stole them?


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Pathfinder .... pathfinder .... pathfinder .... isn't that some kind of merit badge for the Boy Scouts?



I thought it was a Nissan SUV with a terrible transmission.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I thought it was a Nissan SUV with a terrible transmission.



No its a terrible Karl Urban movie.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> No its a terrible Karl Urban movie.



There are no terrible Karl Urban movies. Just misunderstood ones.


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> There are no terrible Karl Urban movies. Just misunderstood ones.


----------



## Aeson

Ah back when The Rock looked more like a normal person and not a steroid golem.


----------



## darjr

Oh! You are so close! Just a little further.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Watch for my new guaranteed-not-to-crash-and-burn-thread "[D&D 5E] WotC needs a Donald Trump!" Coming soon to a forum near you! Sign up now for early access; each Premium Pass comes with an NFT!


----------



## Asisreo

I don't understand some other forum's raw hatred for WoTC. Like, don't get me wrong, they aren't a perfect company by a mile but the way they're talked about would make you believe they have the habit of pushing grandma's down a flight of stairs.


----------



## prabe

Someone has provided me with an opening, and I will not--*I will not*--take advantage of it.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Asisreo said:


> I don't understand some other forum's raw hatred for WoTC. Like, don't get me wrong, they aren't a perfect company by a mile but the way they're talked about would make you believe they have the habit of pushing grandma's down a flight of stairs.



Can't you see? They've absolutely _destroyed_ *Dungeons & Dragons*! It's teetering on the edge of disaster and irrelevancy!


----------



## J.Quondam

Asisreo said:


> I don't understand some other forum's raw hatred for WoTC. Like, don't get me wrong, they aren't a perfect company by a mile but the way they're talked about would make you believe they have the habit of pushing grandma's down a flight of stairs.



Impotent neckbeard rage is neckbeardedly impotent. Whatchagonnado?


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> Impotent neckbeard rage is neckbeardedly impotent. Whatchagonnado?



"Yer damn right it's important!" _goes back to combing neckbeard_


----------



## trappedslider

Asisreo said:


> the habit of pushing grandma's down a flight of stairs.



You push ONE grandma down a flight of stairs and you're labeled for life


----------



## overgeeked

RealAlHazred said:


> Can't you see? They've absolutely _destroyed_ *Dungeons & Dragons*! It's teetering on the edge of disaster and irrelevancy!



It’s always been irrelevant. It’s an elfgame for people with too much time and money on their hands. Just because adults take it far too seriously doesn’t mean it’s in any way actually relevant.


----------



## Asisreo

trappedslider said:


> You push ONE grandma down a flight of stairs and you're labeled for life



If you couldn't make it look like an accident, you kinda deserve it 

Anyways, off that grim note: 

Has anyone noticed pizza restaurants rarely have anchovies anymore?


----------



## CleverNickName

Asisreo said:


> I don't understand some other forum's raw hatred for WoTC. Like, don't get me wrong, they aren't a perfect company by a mile but the way they're talked about would make you believe they have the habit of pushing grandma's down a flight of stairs.



From what I have gathered on Reddit and within these forums, Wizards of the Coast is guilty of a whole litany of crimes, including but not limited to:

Making new editions instead of just reprinting AD&D over and over again.
Not being TSR, as if that were a bad thing
Not asking me, D&D's truest and oldest fan, for my vital input on anything.  Not even once.  I was standing here the whole time, too.  I could have saved them so much time and avoided so many mistakes, but they never even asked me.  Why, oh why, didn't they just ask_ me?_
Inviting the "wrong people" to play MY game.
Not hiring Larry Elmore, Jeff Easley, and Clyde Caldwell to do the artwork
Offering delicious pineapple as a pizza topping
Not using THAC0, not requiring us to roll 3d6 in order, and otherwise updating the rules (see #3, above)
Having the audacity to publish Magic: the Gathering
Having the audacity to be popular and -gasp! mainstream.
Being successful in a challenging industry, unlike my beloved TSR
Updating D&D for the internet age
Updating D&D for younger generations
Not turning back the clock to the 1980s and letting me relive my teenage years
Making me feel old
Being cooler than TSR
Being cooler than me
I'm sure there are more, but these are the most-mentioned ones.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

RealAlHazred said:


> Can't you see? They've absolutely _destroyed_ *Dungeons & Dragons*! It's teetering on the edge of disaster and irrelevancy!



And I feel dirty for defending them. I'm pretty anti-capitalist, and having to take the side of a for-profit corporation makes me feel weird. 

They're definitely not perfect and have made a ton of mistakes throughout the years, but they're definitely not the evil, scheming villains that a ton of people on this site make them out to be.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

CleverNickName said:


> Making new editions instead of just reprinting AD&D over and over again.



And for people that think this might be an exaggeration, it definitely isn't.


----------



## Galandris

billd91 said:


> There's something to be said for having friends you *CAN* play competitive games with, particular of the "inevitable betrayal" sort




That's not "friend". The word you're looking for is "coworkers".


----------



## darjr

I’m not going back to twitter to find the “WotC is evil, they should have gotten some retired artist to do all the art” stuff again.


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> I’m not going back to twitter to find the “WotC is evil, they should have gotten some retired artist to do all the art” stuff again.



Nor should you.
Those were dark days.


----------



## Galandris

prabe said:


> In principle, yes.
> 
> In practice ... I don't much like who I am when I'm playing those sorts of games,




Same here. I greatly prefer coop games these days when it comes to boardgames.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> From what I have gathered on Reddit and within these forums, Wizards of the Coast is guilty of a whole litany of crimes, including but not limited to:
> 
> Making new editions instead of just reprinting AD&D over and over again.
> Not being TSR, as if that were a bad thing
> Not asking me, D&D's truest and oldest fan, for my vital input on anything.  Not even once.  I was standing here the whole time, too.  I could have saved them so much time and avoided so many mistakes, but they never even asked me.  Why, oh why, didn't they just ask_ me?_
> Inviting the "wrong people" to play MY game.
> Not hiring Larry Elmore, Jeff Easley, and Clyde Caldwell to do the artwork
> Offering delicious pineapple as a pizza topping
> Not using THAC0, not requiring us to roll 3d6 in order, and otherwise updating the rules (see #3, above)
> Having the audacity to publish Magic: the Gathering
> Having the audacity to be popular and -gasp! mainstream.
> Being successful in a challenging industry, unlike my beloved TSR
> Updating D&D for the internet age
> Updating D&D for younger generations
> Not turning back the clock to the 1980s and letting me relive my teenage years
> Making me feel old
> Being cooler than TSR
> Being cooler than me
> I'm sure there are more, but these are the biggest ones that I've seen.



You left out Publishing Ebberron instead of "other settings submitted"


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> You left out Publishing Ebberron instead of "other settings submitted"



Oooooo...that's a big one.

17.  Publishing Eberron instead of my _clearly superior _homebrew setting (that was really just another adaptation of someone else's IP)


----------



## Gradine

Look, there are people who hate Eberron, and there are people who are right


----------



## J.Quondam

Social media, blogs, streaming, niche 'news' media... They should just rename the whole mess "the Bitternet."


----------



## billd91

If a certain thread about godly behavior is any indication, there are people who will be blowing their minds over Order of the Stick's snarl storyline.


----------



## overgeeked

billd91 said:


> If a certain thread about godly behavior is any indication, there are people who will be blowing their minds over Order of the Stick's snarl storyline.



If a few years of philosophy classes taught me anything it's that most people are simply incapable of honestly examining their beliefs and interrogating them in anything approaching a critical way. When asked why they believe things, it almost always comes down to uncritical acceptance (i.e. being raised that way, they simply choose to believe it, or they just do). That's the extent of thought put into it, i.e. none. When conversation turns to the whys, hows, implications, etc their eyes usually roll back in their heads and they tend to get loud, disruptive, and leave the class in short order.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

billd91 said:


> If a certain thread about godly behavior is any indication, there are people who will be blowing their minds over Order of the Stick's snarl storyline.



Wasn't there a major plot point in the Order of the Stick that involved preventing the gods from destroying the world again?


----------



## Aeson

RealAlHazred said:


> Watch for my new guaranteed-not-to-crash-and-burn-thread "[D&D 5E] WotC needs a Donald Trump!" Coming soon to a forum near you! Sign up now for early access; each Premium Pass comes with an NFT!



Careful. You might get a warning or something. People get their fefes hurt if you go near politics. You've probably been reported a dozen times by now.


----------



## Cadence

overgeeked said:


> If a few years of philosophy classes taught me anything it's that most people are simply incapable of honestly examining their beliefs and interrogating them in anything approaching a critical way.




I wonder if lots of people focus on "relative fit" instead of "absolute fit" when interrogating things about themselves (politics, religion, favorites).  So, lots of "My current choice A is better (or at least no worse) than their choice B".   But not much  "Do either A or B make sense."


----------



## CleverNickName

Me, trying to understand how the wizard is ruining my game.






I mean, I can see that it's clearly running other people's games.  I believe the stories I'm hearing, but they don't describe what I've seen at my table.  My friends and I enjoy playing the wizard, and we don't have any problems with folks stealing the spotlight, or gross power imbalances, or egos.

I'll say this as gently as I can: perhaps the problems with the wizard class _are_ real...but maybe they aren't printed on the page?


----------



## Scribe

Cadence said:


> I wonder if lots of people focus on "relative fit" instead of "absolute fit" when interrogating things about themselves (politics, religion, favorites).  So, lots of "My current choice A is better (or at least no worse) than their choice B".   But not much  "Do either A or B make sense."




When people are only presented with an A/B, or will not allow themselves to consider that there is actually C, D, E, and F, it leads to pretty divisive behavior.


----------



## overgeeked

Cadence said:


> I wonder if lots of people focus on "relative fit" instead of "absolute fit" when interrogating things about themselves (politics, religion, favorites).  So, lots of "My current choice A is better (or at least no worse) than their choice B".   But not much  "Do either A or B make sense."



Possibly. In my experience it seems far more likely that they’ve never questioned their beliefs, never had others question their beliefs, and never want their beliefs questioned. I believe it, I cannot accept being questioned in that belief, how dare you suggest I could be wrong, and how dare you not believe exactly as I do.


----------



## prabe

Some things are either _this_ or _that_. Most things are not.


----------



## R_J_K75

Lifes Too Short


----------



## overgeeked

Scribe said:


> When people are only presented with an A/B, or will not allow themselves to consider that there is actually C, D, E, and F, it leads to pretty divisive behavior.



Exactly. The Overton window is real and it applies to far more than just politics. It’s not just the individual limiting their options, it’s society as a whole.


----------



## overgeeked

R_J_K75 said:


> Lifes Too Short



Generally no. We waste too much of it on nonsense.


----------



## R_J_K75

overgeeked said:


> Generally no. We waste too much of it on nonsense.



Or significant others.


----------



## R_J_K75

@payn as @overgeeked said we while away our time on nonsense, and I added SO's, D&D needs a new campaign setting


----------



## CleverNickName

Man, _Skyrim_ is just terrible.
(loads _Skyrim_)
I mean, _Oblivion_ was just so much better.
(clicks 'New Game' on the _Skyrim_ load screen)
The character classes were more nuanced, and had more options.
(watches the cart ride scene through Helgen)
And _Oblivion's_ magic system was so much better than _Skyrim's_ alchemy.
(creates new _Skyrim_ character)
And the story was better too!
(finishes the intro, heads to Riverwood)
Yep, _Oblivion_ was just better in every way.  I hope Bethesda actually listens to the fans, and makes the next one more like _Oblivion._
(continues to play another 100+ hours of _Skyrim_)

This is what all edition wars look like to me.


----------



## Malmuria

I didn't put this in another thread









						4 Ways to Boil Water - wikiHow
					

Boiling water is a task so common that learning about it can help you anywhere. Cooking dinner? Find out when to add a poached egg, or whether salt really helps your dish. Hiking on a mountaintop? Discover why your food is taking so long...




					www.wikihow.com


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> This is what all edition wars look like to me.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Aeson

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Governor Tarkin, I thought I smelled your stench when I was brought on board.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> Governor Tarkin, I thought I smelled your stench when I was brought on board.


----------



## Aeson

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



I'm not going to mention what else he's shot.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> I'm not going to mention what else he's shot.


----------



## Aeson

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



I hear you have cupcakes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Aeson said:


> I hear you have cupcakes.




_A sketch of the Sprinkles shop in Suruga in Edo_

Some people are all into cupcakes. Screw 'em.


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> Not hiring Larry Elmore, Jeff Easley, and Clyde Caldwell to do the artwork




 Any book with artwork from one of those guys is inherently better than books without it. This is a scientifically proven fact I read on the internet.




Snarf Zagyg said:


>




 Was it named Hugh?


----------



## Aeson

Why can't I just go into a thread and talk about my love of mudkips....err...kender?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

In recognition of the passing of the great, great, GREAT Christine McVie, I present the following list:

List of Top 10 Members of Fleetwood Mac, Ranked in order of their Importance to the Band
1. Lindsey Buckingham
2. Christine McVie ne Perfect
3. Danny Kirwan
4. Stevie Nicks
5. Peter Green
6. Mick Fleetwood
7. John McVie
8. Jeremy Spencer
9. The Bobs (Welch/Spencer)
10. Dave Walker

(Despite this being a subjective and spur-of-the moment ranking using the ineffable "importance to the band" criterion, I still agonized for 15 minutes about Peter Green and Stevie Nicks.)


----------



## Malmuria

1dnd is aiming to remove so-called "mother may I" mechanics.  1dnd is also going to make extensive use of digital character sheets and a virtual table top where character actions (what elsewhere is called roleplaying) can be fully automated, using a video game engine.  Coincidence????


----------



## Malmuria

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In recognition of the passing of the great, great, GREAT Christine McVie, I present the following list:
> 
> List of Top 10 Members of Fleetwood Mac, Ranked in order of their Importance to the Band
> 1. Lindsey Buckingham
> 2. Christine McVie ne Perfect
> 3. Danny Kirwan
> 4. Stevie Nicks
> 5. Peter Green
> 6. Mick Fleetwood
> 7. John McVie
> 8. Jeremy Spencer
> 9. The Bobs (Welch/Spencer)
> 10. Dave Walker
> 
> (Despite this being a subjective and spur-of-the moment ranking using the ineffable "importance to the band" criterion, I still agonized for 15 minutes about Peter Green and Stevie Nicks.)



Lindsey Buckingham's songs are so corny.


----------



## payn




----------



## Scribe




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Malmuria said:


> Lindsey Buckingham's songs are so corny.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In recognition of the passing of the great, great, GREAT Christine McVie, I present the following list:
> 
> List of Top 10 Members of Fleetwood Mac, Ranked in order of their Importance to the Band
> 1. Lindsey Buckingham
> 2. Christine McVie ne Perfect
> 3. Danny Kirwan
> 4. Stevie Nicks
> 5. Peter Green
> 6. Mick Fleetwood
> 7. John McVie
> 8. Jeremy Spencer
> 9. The Bobs (Welch/Spencer)
> 10. Dave Walker
> 
> (Despite this being a subjective and spur-of-the moment ranking using the ineffable "importance to the band" criterion, I still agonized for 15 minutes about Peter Green and Stevie Nicks.)



You have Stevie Nicks at number FOUR?!?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Ah, Nuclear Gandhi, we meet again.

"And again, we see that there is no game that you can begin that I cannot destroy." _Aside to technician at control panel:_ "You may fire when ready."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> You have Stevie Nicks at number FOUR?!?




You're right! I should have bumped Peter Green up one.


----------



## Cadence

I don't know.  Brilliant? Or brain broken by too much MtG?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Knee-jerk cynicism is something you should grow out of by age 25.

It is an inaccurate view of the world that profoundly damages your mental health. (Both documented by multiple studies.)


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Knee-jerk cynicism is something you should grow out of by age 25.
> 
> It is an inaccurate view of the world that profoundly damages your mental health. (Both documented by multiple studies.)



The people on this forum actually helped me grow out of the deeply-cynical worldview that I had a couple of years ago. Not by being positive, but by being so much more toxically negative that I saw how unnecessarily miserable that worldview makes you. 

So, thank you, posters of ENWorld, I guess.


----------



## overgeeked

Malmuria said:


> 1dnd is aiming to remove so-called "mother may I" mechanics.  1dnd is also going to make extensive use of digital character sheets and a virtual table top where character actions (what elsewhere is called roleplaying) can be fully automated, using a video game engine.  Coincidence????


----------



## payn




----------



## overgeeked

Knee-jerk optimism is something you should grow out of by age 25.

It is an inaccurate view of the world that profoundly damages your mental health. (Both documented by multiple studies.)


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> Knee-jerk optimism is something you should grow out of by age 25.



It's not a binary.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> It's not a binary.



True. I’m optimistic that the cynics are right.


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> Man, _Skyrim_ is just terrible.
> (loads _Skyrim_)
> I mean, _Oblivion_ was just so much better.
> (clicks 'New Game' on the _Skyrim_ load screen)
> The character classes were more nuanced, and had more options.
> (watches the cart ride scene through Helgen)
> And _Oblivion's_ magic system was so much better than _Skyrim's_ alchemy.
> (creates new _Skyrim_ character)
> And the story was better too!
> (finishes the intro, heads to Riverwood)
> Yep, _Oblivion_ was just better in every way.  I hope Bethesda actually listens to the fans, and makes the next one more like _Oblivion._
> (continues to play another 100+ hours of _Skyrim_)
> 
> This is what all edition wars look like to me.



It's such a great parallel too.

First two games are just a wild mishmash of ideas and systems, with a small but hardcore group of fans.

Morrowind is pretty popular, especially after the expansions, though it's a bit unwieldy to play nowadays. Adds more monstrous races. Very complex.

Oblivion streamlined a lot of things, makes outer planes spaces to play in. Also, kinda bad.

Skyrim comes along and sells a bajillion copies. Things are even further streamlined, spellcasting is less busted.


----------



## overgeeked

It’s okay. Everyone disappears up their own tuchus from time to time. Don’t act like you’ve never done it.


----------



## Hussar

Oh RTFM PLEASE.  ((sorry, not directed at anyone in here.  Just needed somewhere to shout))


----------



## prabe

Huh. One little goose feather poke and ... that? OK.


----------



## darjr

prabe said:


> Huh. One little goose feather poke and ... that? OK.



Geese are nasty


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Today's thought-

Chevy killed Christine McVie.

_I don't think I will be able to watch sports this weekend with those commercials cued up to wreck me._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Also? Do you know what you're doing in February?

I do.


_The only disappointment is that it is the week after Valentine's day. _


----------



## Mad_Jack

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Also? Do you know what you're doing in February?
> 
> I do.
> 
> 
> _The only disappointment is that it is the week after Valentine's day. _




 That may actually be even better than _Mosquito_...


----------



## prabe

I'm sure that thread won't devolve into a cesspool. Positive.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I'm sure that thread won't devolve into a cesspool. Positive.




An optimist looks at a glass half-filled with water and says that it is half-full.

A pessimist looks at the same glass and says it is half-empty.

I look at the glass and say, "Seriously? Water? I asked for scotch!"


----------



## CleverNickName

I look at the glass and say "Sorry, I didn't order Budweiser."


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> I look at the glass and say "Sorry, I didn't order Budweiser."



I look at the glass and say, "Glasses? You guys have glasses? We had to cup our hands and drink from that! Kids these days have it easy!"


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I look at the glass and say "Sorry, I didn't order Budweiser."




I look at the shelf of singles at the beer store and ask "Why are there so many IPAs and Sours!?"

(Was happy that the bar we MtG some weekends finally had a Stout back on the menu this week.)


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> I look at the shelf of singles at the beer store and ask "Why are there so many IPAs and Sours!?"
> 
> (Was happy that the bar we MtG some weekends finally had a Stout back on the menu this week.)



"You're _looking_? You have _eyes_? In my day, we had to feel around for things! Kids today have it easy!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I look at the shelf of singles at the beer store and ask "Why are there so many IPAs and Sours!?"
> 
> (Was happy that the bar we MtG some weekends finally had a Stout back on the menu this week.)


----------



## CleverNickName

Ah, winter.
'Tis the season for porters and stouts, nice malty beers with hearty and roasty flavors.

Yep, I might have to pick up a sixer of a local favorite after work tonight.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> An optimist looks at a glass half-filled with water and says that it is half-full.
> 
> A pessimist looks at the same glass and says it is half-empty.
> 
> I look at the glass and say, "Seriously? Water? I asked for scotch!"



"This glass is one-eighth empty."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> "This class is one-eighth empty."


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Ah, winter.
> 'Tis the season for porters and stouts, nice malty beers with hearty and roasty flavors.
> 
> Yep, I might have to pick up a sixer of a local favorite after work tonight.
> 
> View attachment 268420



That is a good one.


----------



## Ryujin

Well this quickly devolved to "Four Yorkshiremen."


----------



## CleverNickName

I was _this close _to creating a thread titled "Download The New OneD&D Playtest Packet Now!" and including a link to a certain Rick Astley music video.  You all should be very grateful for my restraint.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I was _this close _to creating a thread titled "Download The New OneD&D Playtest Packet Now!" and including a link to a certain Rick Astley music video.  You all should be very grateful for my restraint.



Better to go fantasy/D&D themed


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I was _this close _to creating a thread titled "Download The New OneD&D Playtest Packet Now!" and including a link to a certain Rick Astley music video.  You all should be very grateful for my restraint.




A well-developed prefontal cortex is the anathema of great posts. 


....or so a friend told me.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Every day we stray further from Gygax's One True Light...


----------



## Malmuria

RealAlHazred said:


> Every day we stray further from Gygax's One True Light...



Well we should have brought more torches!


----------



## Ryujin

Malmuria said:


> Well we should have brought more torches!



... and polearms. ALL of the polearms.


----------



## payn

Malmuria said:


> Well we should have brought more torches!



Yeap,


----------



## overgeeked

Never stray from the Hickman Manifesto! It is the One True Way.


----------



## Cadence

Rubber Mask: Gnome
Gnome Flavor: Pineapple

*Edited for thread distance


----------



## Malmuria

Ryujin said:


> ... and polearms. ALL of the polearms.



I have them.  They fit in my backpack and yes I've been carrying them around with me this whole time


----------



## CleverNickName

If you're not carrying a ten-foot pole, six torches, and a flask of oil, are you even playing Dungeons & Dragons?


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Yes I am! 

YES. I. AM.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> If you're not carrying a ten-foot pole, six torches, and a flask of oil, are you even playing Dungeons & Dragons?




Why isn't your henchman or hireling carrying them for you?  And what happened to your mirror, hammer, spikes, rope, and wolfsbane?


----------



## darjr

Oh dang! What's next?!

Jiro Dreams of Pineapple?


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> If you're not carrying a ten-foot pole, six torches, and a flask of oil, are you even playing Dungeons & Dragons?



But how many people actually knew what the 10 foot pole was for?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

RealAlHazred said:


> Every day we stray further from Gygax's One True Light...



I think you mean "The Singular Eldritch Phosphorescence of Gygax."


----------



## overgeeked

"You gave me a point of damage! How dare you?! I don't take damage! My backstory says I don't take damage!"


----------



## CleverNickName

"A magic longsword?  But I need a rapier for my build. You _have _seen my build, right?"


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

CleverNickName said:


> "A magic longsword?  But I need a rapier for my build. You _have _seen my build, right?"



As someone who is now trying to make up for not giving out enough magic items over the years (read: nothing for multiple levels), the fact that I can't rely on magical long swords being sought after makes me very sad. It's probably small potatoes, compared to the rest of the issues being addressed, but I really hope 1D&D makes them more popular again. (Yes, I have been playing since a _long sword +1 _was a big deal.)


----------



## Galandris

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> As someone who is now trying to make up for not giving out enough magic items over the years (read: nothing for multiple levels), the fact that I can't rely on magical long swords being sought after makes me very sad. It's probably small potatoes, compared to the rest of the issues being addressed, but I really hope 1D&D makes them more popular again. (Yes, I have been playing since a _long sword +1 _was a big deal.)




Well, magic items have a tradition of adapting to fit the wearer's size and nobody batted an eye. It could easily be expanded by making them fit the wearer's _build._


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> But how many people actually knew what the 10 foot pole was for?




_10 foot pole? More like 4 feet_. 
-Morgan Ironwolf


----------



## CleverNickName

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> As someone who is now trying to make up for not giving out enough magic items over the years (read: nothing for multiple levels), the fact that I can't rely on magical long swords being sought after makes me very sad. It's probably small potatoes, compared to the rest of the issues being addressed, but I really hope 1D&D makes them more popular again. (Yes, I have been playing since a _long sword +1 _was a big deal.)



I use a workaround for that.  I admit it's a bit convoluted, and certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but here goes:

Weapons, armor, and shields with a +1 enchantment aren't magical.
They are, however, made from cold iron.
Similarly, +2 weapons are nonmagical and made of mithril, and +3 weapons are nonmagical adamantine items.
If you find a +1 longsword, you can pay a blacksmith to smelt it down and reforge it into a different weapon of equal weight.
Only NPCs can work with mithril, adamantine, and other rare metals.  This will never be explained.
You can even save up enough of them to make a whole suit of full plate, if you're so inclined.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _10 foot pole? More like 4 feet_.
> -Morgan Ironwolf



Skinny and short?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> But how many people actually knew what the 10 foot pole was for?



Almost ten years ago on another message board, I participated in a thread about ten foot poles and how they work. It led to the creation of the Most Ancient and Worshipful Guild of Roodsmen and Pole-Tenders, hirelings to tend to your ten-foot poles and use them properly. Also incidently they can organize and support your dungeon expedition with dispatch.


----------



## payn

So much player hate...


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> So much player hate...




We'll, I mean, have you ever met one?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> We'll, I mean, have you ever met one?



I've not only met one. I *am* one.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> I've not only met one. I *am* one.


----------



## Warpiglet-7

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _10 foot pole? More like 4 feet_.
> -Morgan Ironwolf



Morgan, it’s not the size of the pole that matters but how you poke the dungeon floor with it!


----------



## overgeeked

So much distrust of DMs.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

overgeeked said:


> So much distrust of DMs.



Normally there's a reason behind that.


----------



## prabe

So much distrust of players, with probably about as much reason.


----------



## overgeeked

payn said:


> So much player hate...





Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Normally there's a reason behind that.



Right back at ya.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

overgeeked said:


> Right back at ya.



_Distrusting _DMs and _hating _players are very, very different things.


----------



## overgeeked

prabe said:


> So much distrust of players, with probably about as much reason.



I don’t buy that.


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> If you're not carrying a ten-foot pole, six torches, and a flask of oil, are you even playing Dungeons & Dragons?




 Back in the day, there was one session where the party didn't have a 10-ft pole, so one of the other players made a comment that we did have a 6-ft Irishman, whereupon several members of the party picked up my character and heaved him into the area we thought might be trapped.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> I don’t buy that.



There's about as much reason to distrust players as there is to distrust GMs, seems to me. I don't entirely disbelieve every horror story I see about either--bad players and bad GMs both exist.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> There's about as much reason to distrust players as there is to distrust GMs, seems to me. I don't entirely disbelieve every horror story I see about either--bad players and bad GMs both exist.



And bad DMs have more power at a table to abuse than bad players do. So your bad DM horror stories tend to be more egregious than bad player horror stories, from my personal experience and from accounts I've seen online.


----------



## prabe

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> And bad DMs have more power at a table to abuse than bad players do. So your bad DM horror stories tend to be more egregious than bad player horror stories, from my personal experience and from accounts I've seen online.



Also one bad GM can affect more players than one bad player can GMs--though of course the bad player is plausibly making things bad for the other *players*, as well.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

prabe said:


> Also one bad GM can affect more players than one bad player can GMs--though of course the bad player is plausibly making things bad for the other *players*, as well.



Yep. I personally see more bad player stories than bad DM ones (because players outnumber DMs by a lot), but the bad DM stories are normally worse. 

It's hard for a single player to ruin the entire game for everyone at the table. It's easy for a DM to do that.


----------



## Cadence

I don't think I've ever been as annoyed by a bad pizza chef or group of annoying pizzeria customers as much as I have been by the overly melodramatic yelpers who go on about them ad nauseum instead of just enjoying the latest pizza place they found.  Especially when they could be complaining about Bards and Ardlings.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Mad_Jack said:


> Back in the day, there was one session where the party didn't have a 10-ft pole, so one of the other players made a comment that we did have a 6-ft Irishman, whereupon several members of the party picked up my character and heaved him into the area we thought might be trapped.



My wife's first D&D experience included my brother's player character dragging around a goblin corpse and tossing it everywhere he thought there might be a pressure trap.

That, interestingly, is what sold her on the game. (She had come from CRPGs and MMOs, where that kind of freedom to do your own thing is much more limited, by necessity.)


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

prabe said:


> There's about as much reason to distrust players as there is to distrust GMs, seems to me.



This all reads to me that more people should be playing online, where you have access to a theoretically infinite pool of players and DMs to match your preferred play style.


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> This all reads to me that more people should be playing online, where you have access to a theoretically infinite pool of players and DMs to match your preferred play style.



You might think so.

You might also think that gaming online would be a way for a few bad players and/or DMs to spread their crap far and wide.

The truth is probably both, or neither, depending on how you look at it.


----------



## trappedslider

overgeeked said:


> So much distrust of DMs.






prabe said:


> So much distrust of players, with probably about as much reason.



I only trust friend computer.


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> I only trust friend computer.



Well, not trusting Friend Computer will result in your being used as reactor shielding.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

prabe said:


> You might think so.
> 
> You might also think that gaming online would be a way for a few bad players and/or DMs to spread their crap far and wide.



I didn't say that it was without a potential downside.

But all the people who post here who appear _miserable_ in their games have very little to lose by trying it.


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I didn't say that it was without a potential downside.
> 
> But all the people who post here who appear _miserable_ in their games have very little to lose by trying it.



On the one hand, this is true. On the other hand, I suspect at least most of the people who seem so miserable could do with a good look in the mirror before trying it. As the saying goes, _The only thing all our dysfunctional relationships have in common is you._


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

prabe said:


> On the one hand, this is true. On the other hand, I suspect at least most of the people who seem so miserable could do with a good look in the mirror before trying it. As the saying goes, _The only thing all our dysfunctional relationships have in common is you._



"On the one hand, you've set me on fire for making all of these 'on the other hand' arguments. On the other hand, I'll be warm and toasty for the rest of my life."


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> "On the one hand, you've set me on fire for making all of these 'on the other hand' arguments. On the other hand, I'll be warm and toasty for the rest of my life."



I'm sorry. Sincerely. I just see both sides of this, and have to work not to.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I'm sorry. Sincerely. I just see both sides of this, and have to work not to.




On the one hand, i hate players.
On the other hand, I hate DMs. 
On the third hand, I hate poorly-shielded nuclear reactors.


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> On the one hand, i hate players.
> On the other hand, I hate DMs.
> On the third hand, I hate poorly-shielded nuclear reactors.



On the fourth hand, I hate myself.


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> Well, not trusting Friend Computer will result in your being used as reactor shielding.



Only mutant and commie lovers don't trust Friend computer.


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> Only mutant and commie lovers don't trust Friend computer.



And the best possible use for a mutant or a commie or any other traitor is as reactor shielding. QED


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> And the best possible use for a mutant or a commie or any other traitor is as reactor shielding. QED



You do not have the correct security clearance for that knowledge please speak to an internal affairs agent for reassignment.


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> You do not have the correct security clearance for that knowledge please speak to an internal affairs agent for reassignment.



Stay alert! Trust no one! Keep your laser handy!


----------



## Umbran

On the gripping hand, if this thread also becomes an argument, it will close.

So please don't.


----------



## billd91




----------



## Benjamin Olson

It wouldn't be a new OneD&D playtest day if I didn't end up blocking someone.


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> Stay alert! Trust no one! Keep your laser handy!



Lasers are only issued to those with Security Clearance VIOLET_. _Citizen, _y_ou do not have the correct clearance to have one please report to meeting room 2A for [REDACTED]. Remember Happiness is mandatory.


----------



## Asisreo

trappedslider said:


> Only mutant and commie lovers don't trust Friend computer.



Is that why these people have so many hands?!


----------



## trappedslider

After spending a moment to see why WotC was trending on Twitter, I am glad I no longer take part in that part of the gaming community.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Mad_Jack said:


> Back in the day, there was one session where the party didn't have a 10-ft pole, so one of the other players made a comment that we did have a 6-ft Irishman, whereupon several members of the party picked up my character and heaved him into the area we thought might be trapped.



Three questions immediately come to mind.
1. What was an Irishman doing in a D&D game?
2. Was the Irishman one of many human subraces one could choose from?
3.  If yes to (2), what kind of racial benefits you got for choosing Irishman?


----------



## AnotherGuy

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> My wife's first D&D experience included my brother's player character dragging around a goblin corpse and tossing it everywhere he thought there might be a pressure trap.



We had that too! Thanks for the memory. Those were good days.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> After spending a moment to see why WotC was trending on Twitter, I am glad I no longer take part in that part of the gaming community.




Twitter is like a play that changes every day. And every day on twitter there is one main character in the play. 

The goal is to never be it.


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> Lasers are only issued to those with Security Clearance VIOLET_. _Citizen, _y_ou do not have the correct clearance to have one please report to meeting room 2A for [REDACTED]. Remember Happiness is mandatory.




Citizen, lasers, with regulation six-shot barrels of appropriate clearance are standard Troubleshooter equipment.  Are you suggesting that Friend Computer would, through careless application of security clearances, put Troubleshooters in the field with anything less than the full compliment of high-quality, reliable equipment necessary to shoot commiemutanttraitorscum trouble?  

Misinformation is treason, Friend Citizen.  Please report to your nearest confession booth for termination debriefing concerning this incident.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> My wife's first D&D experience included my brother's player character dragging around a goblin corpse and tossing it everywhere he thought there might be a pressure trap.
> 
> That, interestingly, is what sold her on the game. (She had come from CRPGs and MMOs, where that kind of freedom to do your own thing is much more limited, by necessity.)




 I played my first game when I was eight - the DM had to explain to me that flasks of oil were used as fuel for lanterns and _for lighting things on fire_...
That was the moment I fell in love with the game.  
I spent all my extra gold on oil and torches and spent the whole game setting fire to the corpses of everything I killed.
Some of which I'd killed by setting them on fire, lol.



AnotherGuy said:


> Three questions immediately come to mind.
> 1. What was an Irishman doing in a D&D game?
> 2. Was the Irishman one of many human subraces one could choose from?
> 3.  If yes to (2), what kind of racial benefits you got for choosing Irishman?




1. Telling bad jokes. And drinking.
2. Technically it was a 3/4 Irish-, 1/4 Sicilian-man.
3.
 - Resistance to alcohol poisoning.
    - Advantage on Deception rolls.
    - The Lucky trait.


----------



## darjr

Another thread calling people liars and thieves because toys.


----------



## payn

No posts in like ten years and y'all came back to say that?


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> My wife's first D&D experience included my brother's player character dragging around a goblin corpse and tossing it everywhere he thought there might be a pressure trap.
> 
> That, interestingly, is what sold her on the game. (She had come from CRPGs and MMOs, where that kind of freedom to do your own thing is much more limited, by necessity.)



Rifts - The player with the dragon PC took to using my invulnerable superhero character to batter down doors. I was... not amused.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Today's Google animation, celebrating the B-day of video game pioneer Jerry Lawson (invented the video game cartridge) is possibly one of the best I've seen in years.
Multiple playable games, and it lets you mess with them as well.

Seriously, you'll waste the rest of your day playing.


----------



## payn

If you reach a "who cares?" point, why do you still post about it? Why not stop reading the thread?


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> If you reach a "who cares?" point, why do you still post about it? Why not stop reading the thread?




Maybe they've stopped caring about everything, and posting in the thread is the only thing they have to keep them going...


----------



## MarkB

payn said:


> If you reach a "who cares?" point, why do you still post about it? Why not stop reading the thread?



"Who cares about this thing that everyone in the entire thread is currently discussing? You're all missing the very important thing I posted back on page 73!"


----------



## trappedslider

In the middle of a Black Ops, if a character dies I will not disavow knowledge of him until after the mission is over.


----------



## Malmuria

For some people, lore is really important but rules are not.  For others, rules are important but lore is not.  Me, I just wish I could find a portal somewhere in my house to a magical realm where I never had to write another email.


----------



## trappedslider

Malmuria said:


> For some people, lore is really important but rules are not.  For others, rules are important but lore is not.  Me, I just wish I could find a portal somewhere in my house to a magical realm where I never had to write another email.



When i started and was playing regularly rules were important,but as time went on  and I slowly stopped playing lore became important and I gotta be honest but GURPS Infinite World has some of the coolest to me lore/fluff.


----------



## Scribe




----------



## Galandris

darjr said:


> Another thread calling people liars and thieves




With the new D&D movie being called Honor Among Thieves, and thieves are fashionable again, can we bring back Thief as as core class? I know it was changed because people who could spell wrote theif and they needed an opportunity to mispell rouge, but hey...


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> Rifts - The player with the dragon PC took to using my invulnerable superhero character to batter down doors. I was... not amused.




Confusing warforged with more metallic robot, one of mine was used as a fuse in an eldritch machine. "Don't worry, we've enough cash to resurrect you, it can't fail to work". I am sometime gaming with eldritch _players_.

The same group in a former edition concluded that mummy rot would kill several players so summoned a cockatrice to turn half the group to stone and well, stay around until they could come back with appropriate magic (was it Break enchantment?) to cure it.


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> With the new D&D movie being called Honor Among Thieves, and thieves are fashionable again, can we bring back Thief as as core class? I know it was changed because people who could spell wrote thief and they needed an opportunity to mispell rouge, but hey...



Only if we can go Full Hobbit and have a Burglar Class.


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> Confusing warforged with more metallic robot, one of mine was used as a fuse in an eldritch machine. "Don't worry, we've enough cash to resurrect you, it can't fail to work". I am sometime gaming with eldritch _players_.
> 
> The same group in a former edition concluded that mummy rot would kill several players so summoned a cockatrice to turn half the group to stone and well, stay around until they could come back with appropriate magic (was it Break enchantment?) to cure it.



The use of my invulnerable superhero as a battering ram ended when the dragon swung him, head first, in to a magical metal pillar. The GM ruled that his head came clean off. Despite being invulnerable I had created my character with some very obvious and exploitable flaws, however, after this I determined that playing with munchkins required stooping to a bit of munchkinism. Meet my next character: The Demigod son of Loki, who turned to good by becoming an Apok. Magic, Psionics, teleportation..... To know how truly silly that character was would require a fair bit of knowledge of the game, and its expansion books.


----------



## MarkB

Galandris said:


> The same group in a former edition concluded that mummy rot would kill several players so summoned a cockatrice to turn half the group to stone and well, stay around until they could come back with appropriate magic (was it Break enchantment?) to cure it.



Now I want to do a D&D scenario that involves a company selling this as a service to people with incurable conditions, along the lines of real-world cryogenics corps.

And then a scenario where the players are all characters from a previous campaign who took advantage of this service and then wake up in a futuristic fantasy world.


----------



## CleverNickName

That old "Player vs. DM" mindset is still alive and well, I see.

Does anyone play D&D with their _friends_ anymore?


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> That old "Player vs. DM" mindset is still alive and well, I see.
> 
> Does anyone play D&D with their _friends_ anymore?



I do. Both the groups I started at game stores, two of the people at the table were long-standing gaming friends, and one of the people at the table was my wife. Both those groups have been going long enough I like and trust everyone at the table.


----------



## Scribe

CleverNickName said:


> That old "Player vs. DM" mindset is still alive and well, I see.
> 
> Does anyone play D&D with their _friends_ anymore?




Its pretty wild right? I dont understand the antagonism, unless people are just getting rando's (DM or Players) all the time, and trying to make it work.

I know for sure that wouldnt work for me.


----------



## Galandris

CleverNickName said:


> That old "Player vs. DM" mindset is still alive and well, I see.
> 
> Does anyone play D&D with their _friends_ anymore?




I do. Killing friends is much more gratifying. 

(Serious answer for the first part: I even have trouble imagining playing with random people now that I have had a stable gaming group for years).


----------



## Malmuria

You know what I hate reading?  Play reports.  It's like someone telling you about a dream they had


----------



## prabe

Scribe said:


> Its pretty wild right? I dont understand the antagonism, unless people are just getting rando's (DM or Players) all the time, and trying to make it work.
> 
> I know for sure that wouldnt work for me.



I was looking to expand my comfort zone some. It worked. I don't know that I'd want to count on it working again.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I find that, if I DM D&D for my enemies, I am far more comfortable enforcing reasonable consequences for all of that agency I give the players...


----------



## J.Quondam

What's the old adage? Something like "Hate the gamer, not the game", right?


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> That old "Player vs. DM" mindset is still alive and well, I see.
> 
> Does anyone play D&D with their _friends_ anymore?



My friends avoid me like the plague. Wouldn’t you?


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> The use of my invulnerable superhero as a battering ram ended when the dragon swung him, head first, in to a magical metal pillar. The GM ruled that his head came clean off. Despite being invulnerable I had created my character with some very obvious and exploitable flaws, however, after this I determined that playing with munchkins required stooping to a bit of munchkinism. Meet my next character: The Demigod son of Loki, who turned to good by becoming an Apok. Magic, Psionics, teleportation..... To know how truly silly that character was would require a fair bit of knowledge of the game, and its expansion books.



sounds like pun pun


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> Does anyone play D&D with their _friends_ anymore?




 I try not to play with my friends.

When I get bored, I tend to accidentally end up breaking the things I'm playing with...  

On a more serious note, I don't really like playing with random people all that much, because there's almost always at least one person in the group who's going to irritate me for some reason. Poor table behavior, inability or unwillingness to function as part of a group, a joke character, whatever...


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Mad_Jack said:


> On a more serious note, I don't really like playing with random people all that much, because there's almost always at least one person in the group who's going to irritate me for some reason. Poor table behavior, inability or unwillingness to function as part of a group, a joke character, whatever...



I've been doing GenCon Online games since 2020 and while there's at least one person each year who thinks this is a solo game with sidekicks, the majority of the random people have been great. (It helps, I'm sure, that you have to pay at least a nominal fee for games, to ensure you'll show up.)


----------



## Cadence

A: And the Sorcerer became the most popular of the spell casting classes.  Not to mention that the Sorcerer fixed a lot of the horrible flaws in the Wizard.  It also doesn't have many of the awful things the Warlock has, even though the Warlock is now more popular because it's the hot new thing.

B: I don't think the Sorcerer is actually more popular than the Wizard, is it?

A: Why do you have to make this a fight about which class is best!?!


----------



## HammerMan

the Jester said:


> I think that this is a wonderful idea, and I thank you for contributing to positivity on ENWorld.



I just started to use block. People who pick fights people that don’t back down when asked.  People who seem to have a pass from the admins for insulting.  Yeah I am blocking everyone of them.  If it hurts my ability to read the site I can unblock them later


----------



## CleverNickName

A:  This is a horrible flaw, everybody knows that.
B:  I don' think it's flawed at all.
A:  Why is everyone being so divisive?


----------



## Asisreo

Echo chambers in action. "Everyone" is really just the clique they decided to hang around, but when their clique insists that it's obvious and anyone that thinks differently is an idiot, then it becomes something "everybody knows."


----------



## Cadence

I propose the "try it out at the office" test.  If you're afraid to bring up pineapple pizza or use bard as a descriptor at your place of employment then it feels like you do understand that it is  problematic. And if you disagree with someone that it would get you in trouble then start doing it and report back to us on what HR says.


----------



## Mad_Jack

How to tell if you're from the Northeastern US:

 If you watch this:

:19 seconds  Player dives over table in volleyball save

And your mind immediately goes here:

"EC Dub! EC Dub! EC Dub!"


----------



## overgeeked

A: This is a great feature, everybody knows that.
B: I don' think it's great at all.
A: Why is everyone being so divisive?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

HammerMan said:


> I just started to use block. People who pick fights people that don’t back down when asked.  People who seem to have a pass from the admins for insulting.  Yeah I am blocking everyone of them.  If it hurts my ability to read the site I can unblock them later



You can open a tab in private view to see what someone is responding to. You don't need to unblock anyone.


----------



## Cadence

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> You can open a tab in private view to see what someone is responding to. You don't need to unblock anyone.




You can also set the block so that it tells you if someone you blocked posted or replied in the thread you're on and gives you a button to see what they actually posted.


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> My friends avoid me like the plague. Wouldn’t you?



This takes on a new meaning given the last couple of years.


----------



## darjr

Aeson said:


> This takes on a new meaning given the last couple of years.



It’s the scented dice.


----------



## Aeson

darjr said:


> It’s the scented dice.



If your dice smells like an otyugh, I can understand why they avoid you.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Aeson said:


> If your dice smells like an otyugh, I can understand why they avoid you.




 Actually, it's not the smell, it's the screaming of all the souls of the players that my dice have taken over the past thirty years...


----------



## Scribe

A: "I want a Canadian Pizza."
B: "Sure, that wil..."
A: "Remove the Pepperoni, Mushroom, and Bacon, and put on Ham and Pineapple."
B: "That would be a Hawaiian, I'll update your order."
A: "I told you I want a Canadian, are you telling me I cannot have what I want?!"
B: "...."


----------



## payn

Scribe said:


> A: "I want a Canadian Pizza."
> B: "Sure, that wil..."
> A: "Remove the Pepperoni, Mushroom, and Bacon, and put on Ham and Pineapple."
> B: "That would be a Hawaiian, I'll update your order."
> A: "I told you I want a Canadian, are you telling me I cannot have what I want?!"
> B: "...."



lol, I remember a story a waiter mentioned about a lady who had garlic allergies. She wanted the garlic bread without the garlic, so the waiter brought out the regular bread. She got made and made a scene because she wanted the "garlic bread" without the garlic. The waiter tried in vain to explain that the regular bread _is_ the garlic bread without garlic, but the diner wouldn't believe it.


----------



## Scribe

payn said:


> She wanted the garlic bread without the garlic, so the waiter brought out the regular bread.




"Your warm buttered toast, ma'am."


----------



## MarkB

payn said:


> lol, I remember a story a waiter mentioned about a lady who had garlic allergies. She wanted the garlic bread without the garlic, so the waiter brought out the regular bread. She got made and made a scene because she wanted the "garlic bread" without the garlic. The waiter tried in vain to explain that the regular bread _is_ the garlic bread without garlic, but the diner wouldn't believe it.






Scribe said:


> "Your warm buttered toast, ma'am."



I mean, yeah, that's probably what she meant. Toasted like garlic bread, but without the herbs.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> lol, I remember a story a waiter mentioned about a lady who had garlic allergies. She wanted the garlic bread without the garlic, so the waiter brought out the regular bread. She got made and made a scene because she wanted the "garlic bread" without the garlic. The waiter tried in vain to explain that the regular bread _is_ the garlic bread without garlic, but the diner wouldn't believe it.



Yeah, the internet is full of stories about things like this. For example, the woman who wanted a virgin screwdriver. When asked if she wanted orange juice, she insisted on a virgin screwdriver.


----------



## Asisreo

billd91 said:


> Yeah, the internet is full of stories about things like this. For example, the woman who wanted a virgin screwdriver. When asked if she wanted orange juice, she insisted on a virgin screwdriver.



Perhaps she wanted a hand tool straight out of the box.


----------



## trappedslider

billd91 said:


> Yeah, the internet is full of stories about things like this. For example, the woman who wanted a virgin screwdriver. When asked if she wanted orange juice, she insisted on a virgin screwdriver.



could have also meant she wanted OJ with sprite or ginger ale.


----------



## CleverNickName

"If I repeat myself enough, surely Wizards of the Coast will start to agree with me.  Right?  That's how this works?"


----------



## overgeeked

If you need more than 10 house rules to make a game work the way you want, you're playing the wrong game.


----------



## Cadence

overgeeked said:


> If you need more than 10 house rules to make a game work the way you want, you're playing the wrong game.




I mean, that sounds like a lot less than making one's own from scratch.


----------



## overgeeked

Cadence said:


> I mean, that sounds like a lot less than making one's own from scratch.



Yep. But there are several thousand games out there. "Game X, plus these house rules" likely already exists. Someone else has already done that work.


----------



## Cadence

overgeeked said:


> Yep. But there are several thousand games out there. "Game X, plus these house rules" likely already exists. Someone else has already done that work.




Looking over several thousand games to find something that does exactly what I want (and probably getting close at best) sounds like more work than gradually building up some house rules?  

Does this apply to new editions of games to?  That someone has likely done that already?  If not, I'm not sure why my perfect game quest is different.  If so, I'm not sure why we need game designers revising games.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> I mean, that sounds like a lot less than making one's own from scratch.



And a lot less work than months of learning and testing dozens of indie clones, Goldilocks style, until you find the one that's _just right._

EDIT: @Cadence beat me to it.

House rules are only annoying when you insist every house must adopt them.


----------



## darjr

Sorry this pizza isn't to spec. I counted one extra pineapple.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> House rules are only annoying when you insist every house must adopt them.



Also when people insist on playing a particular game that’s not suited to a particular style of play and there‘s a stack of house rules to kludge it into “working.” Or instead, you know, ask around for a system that better suits and play that.


----------



## MarkB

darjr said:


> Sorry this pizza isn't to spec. I counted one extra pineapple.



Pineapple chunk, or one extra pineapple?


----------



## MarkB

overgeeked said:


> Also when people insist on playing a particular game that’s not suited to a particular style of play and there‘s a stack of house rules to kludge it into “working.” Or instead, you know, ask around for a system that better suits and play that.



And fully playtest it to see whether it actually meets your needs, and then convince your friends that it meets their needs too.


----------



## trappedslider

overgeeked said:


> If you need more than 10 house rules to make a game work the way you want, you're playing the wrong game.



Could take the GURPS approach and just buy the 10 books with the rules you want


----------



## darjr

MarkB said:


> Pineapple chunk, or one extra pineapple?



I said one. Bring me a brand new pizza remade from scratch with one less pineapple.

Just the one.


----------



## Hussar

With all this talk about playing with strangers I must be pretty lucky. My experiences have been mostly positive. 

Sure there’s been bad actors but overall? It’s been pretty good.


----------



## darjr

Now this pizza is missing a pineapple!

Look just bring me out a pizza with the pineapple on the side.

And the cheese on the side.

And the suace.

And the other ingredients.

Minus the crust.

And a bowl of flower and pitcher of water.

And wheel the pizza oven out here.


----------



## Cadence

overgeeked said:


> If you need more than 10 house rules to make a game work the way you want, you're playing the wrong game.




Wait, 8 years of trying and you're not up to ten rules yet?  Or you are and are sharing the voice of experience with us to earn is away?


----------



## el-remmen

Stumbled upon the most annoying thread of all time.


----------



## Scribe

el-remmen said:


> Stumbled upon the most annoying thread of all time.




I dont think I could even narrow it to 5 right now.


----------



## Asisreo

Hussar said:


> With all this talk about playing with strangers I must be pretty lucky. My experiences have been mostly positive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there’s been bad actors but overall? It’s been pretty good.




I haven't played with online strangers very often but it's definitely a "one bad apple" deal with me. Physical strangers don't have th a guise of anonymity to protect their persona, though, so they tend to behave much more reasonably.


----------



## Scribe

At this stage, unless I start seeing an actual case or argument being built, any definitive statements of 'objectivity' just come across as trolling.


----------



## J.Quondam

Scribe said:


> At this stage, unless I start seeing an actual case or argument being built, any definitive statements of 'objectivity' just come across as trolling.



That, and blanket assertions like "everyone", "99%", "always" and so forth. It's possible to make a point without hyperbolizing or inventing fake facts to make it sound more legit than it really is.


----------



## overgeeked

Scribe said:


> At this stage, unless I start seeing an actual case or argument being built, any definitive statements of 'objectivity' just come across as trolling.



"I'm right. You know I'm right. Don't question me." Never goes over well.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> "I'm right. You know I'm right. Don't question me." Never goes over well.



Especially when it's someone else who says it.


----------



## Cadence

Reminder: if you don't like fruit on your pizza you either don't get to use wheat (or corn) for the crust, tomatoes for the sauce, or peppers as a topping, or you don't like using words right!


----------



## Mad_Jack

darjr said:


> Sorry this pizza isn't to spec. I counted one extra pineapple.




 Well, you'll just have to keep recounting until the numbers match up...




Hussar said:


> With all this talk about playing with strangers I must be pretty lucky. My experiences have been mostly positive.
> 
> Sure there’s been bad actors but overall? It’s been pretty good.




 Most of the people I've played with in public groups have been pretty decent, but there's often that _one guy_...

The barbarian who refused to follow any plan except to immediately charge the baddest guy on the map just so he could get the kill... The NG character who insisted that because he was NG that the party should spend two days bringing the surviving bandit back to town to hand him over to the authorities instead of continuing on with the time-sensitive actual quest (and who kept stopping the game to carry on about how "that's not how they did it in 2nd Edition)... The dwarf wizard who wanted his magical staff to have a warhammer head on it so that he could get into melee, refused to tell the party what spells he had (even though it was 4E and I had his powers figured out within two combats), and insisted on harvesting skins and body parts from literally everything we killed so that he could make magical items from them...




J.Quondam said:


> That, and blanket assertions like "everyone", "99%", "always" and so forth. It's possible to make a point without hyperbolizing or inventing fake facts to make it sound more legit than it really is.




 Studies show that 87% of people believe that 99% percent of statistics are ccompletely made up.


----------



## J.Quondam

Everyone knows that a pizza is just a failed taco.


----------



## Warpiglet-7

Mad_Jack said:


> Well, you'll just have to keep recounting until the numbers match up...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the people I've played with in public groups have been pretty decent, but there's often that _one guy_...
> 
> The barbarian who refused to follow any plan except to immediately charge the baddest guy on the map just so he could get the kill... The NG character who insisted that because he was NG that the party should spend two days bringing the surviving bandit back to town to hand him over to the authorities instead of continuing on with the time-sensitive actual quest (and who kept stopping the game to carry on about how "that's not how they did it in 2nd Edition)... The dwarf wizard who wanted his magical staff to have a warhammer head on it so that he could get into melee, refused to tell the party what spells he had (even though it was 4E and I had his powers figured out within two combats), and insisted on harvesting skins and body parts from literally everything we killed so that he could make magical items from them...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Studies show that 87% of people believe that 99% percent of statistics are ccompletely made up.



60% of the time it works every time.


----------



## overgeeked

overgeeked said:


> If you need more than 10 house rules to make a game work the way you want, you're playing the wrong game.



The flip side of that is, of course, that some people will only ever play one game, one way, and one system. So it's either hack the game into an unrecognizable mess of house rules to get it to do something it was never designed to do, or just keep on playing the exact same game in the exact same way...over and over and over...snooze.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> The flip side of that is, of course, that some people will only ever play one game, one way, and one system. So it's either hack the game into an unrecognizable mess of house rules to get it to do something it was never designed to do, or just keep on playing the exact same game in the exact same way...over and over and over...snooze.



Also, I suspect most people don't just add 250* houserules in a bolus. They add a few, then a few, then a few; plausibly after running into something they didn't like in the rules.

*--or whatever arbitrarily large number suffices for the rhetoric, here


----------



## Galandris

prabe said:


> Also, I suspect most people don't just add 250* houserules in a bolus. They add a few, then a few, then a few; plausibly after running into something they didn't like in the rules.
> 
> *--or whatever arbitrarily large number suffices for the rhetoric, here



most people, do you mean... _99% of people_?


----------



## prabe

Galandris said:


> most people, do you mean... _99% of people_?



If I'd meant 99%, I would have said 99%.


----------



## Galandris

Tomorrow, there is a strong chance I'll eat a pizza with pear as a topping.

I'll post pictures so you can call the poison emergency service if I don't post again after that...


----------



## Hussar

overgeeked said:


> The flip side of that is, of course, that some people will only ever play one game, one way, and one system. So it's either hack the game into an unrecognizable mess of house rules to get it to do something it was never designed to do, or just keep on playing the exact same game in the exact same way...over and over and over...snooze.



IME, I have zero problems with someone having a boat load of house rules.  That's fine.  It's when that same person who has a boat load of house rules then engages in a discussion about the game without making it clear that they don't actually play that game but a heavily modified version of it, which skews all of their perceptions of the game since it's been so long that they actually played that game they don't remember how the game actually works in the first place.

Add to that the unfortunate scenario where many people start house ruling without actually taking the time to properly understand why the rules are the way they are in the first place, and you wind up with a very confusing conversation.


----------



## Scribe




----------



## trappedslider




----------



## trappedslider

does a sandwich go meat bread meat or bread meat bread?


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Asisreo

I feel as though people have an aversion to listening to those that have played a certain option/class/race, etc. and just like to state how they _feel_ like it _would_ play, but never touch the option in the first place. 

I get not having time to try everything out and not having good or bad first impressions at a glance, but why defend your own viewpoint so vigorously when it's based off skimming through the option, or worse, someone else's opinion of an option that they haven't played either?

I think people underestimate just how insightful anecdotal evidence is when observing multi-faceted problems like whether an option is effective or not in a TTRPG environment.


----------



## Cadence

Phew.  For a minute there I was going to take my and other in heres  years of experience, starting with being new players, playing with scores of people in dozens of groups, with a multitude of new players starting across two, three, or four decades into account too.  I'm glad we have someone whose own experience is definitive to save us.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Phew.  For a minute there I was going to take my and other in heres  years of experience, starting with being new players, playing with scores of people in dozens of groups with a multitude of new players starting across two, three, or four decades into account too.  I'm glad we have someone whose own experience is definitive to save us.



Naw, we're just "blinded by our preconceptions."


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Naw, we're just "blinded by our preconceptions."



I was blinded by science


----------



## Cadence

Asisreo said:


> I think people underestimate just how* inciteful* anecdotal evidence is when observing multi-faceted problems like whether an option is effective or not in a TTRPG environment.




The number of times things are both inciteful and insightful has me not entirely sure which one was meant...


----------



## Galandris

That moment you regret there is no  icon to comment a post, when you make a joke in a post and another poster answers dead seriously, extolling the healthy benefits of including pineapple in your diet...


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I was blinded by science


----------



## overgeeked

Cadence said:


> Phew.  For a minute there I was going to take my and other in heres  years of experience, starting with being new players, playing with scores of people in dozens of groups, with a multitude of new players starting across two, three, or four decades into account too.  I'm glad we have someone whose own experience is definitive to save us.



That’s how these conversations work. If someone’s experience is different than mine, they must be wrong. It’s how literally every poster behaves.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> That’s how these conversations work. If someone’s experience is different than mine, they must be wrong. It’s how literally every poster behaves.



Correct. There are absolutely no posters on these fora who expect others to have different experiences and/or preferences.


----------



## CleverNickName

The only bad part about the OneD&D playtest surveys is that they give us the illusion of control.  By participating, we believe--if only a little, if only for a moment--that _we_ get to decide what Wizards of the Coast does with _their own_ products and intellectual properties.  The surveys fool us into believing that we have real authority...and the louder we are, the more authority we feel entitled to.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> The only bad part about the OneD&D playtest surveys is that they give us the illusion of control.



I don't think that's what they're going for. They're going for "consensus."


----------



## CleverNickName

RealAlHazred said:


> I don't think that's what they're going for. They're going for "consensus."



I've seen the video and I agree, that is what the goal is.

Unfortunately, "we are looking for consensus" telegraphs a message to a certain type of personality: they need to be very loud and very repetitive about things they like, and very dismissive and aggressive toward the things they don't, lest Wizards of the Coast start listening to the "wrong opinions."  It's not the truth, but that's the attitude that folks seem to carry. Scanning through a few of the playtest threads here, I get the feeling this approach is generating more heat than light.


----------



## prabe

RealAlHazred said:


> I don't think that's what they're going for. They're going for "consensus."



They're at least *telling us* it's consensus.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I've seen the video and I agree, that is what the goal is.
> 
> Unfortunately, "we are looking for consensus" telegraphs a message to a certain type of personality: they need to be very loud and very repetitive about things they like, and very dismissive and aggressive toward the things they don't, lest Wizards of the Coast start listening to the "wrong opinions."  Scanning through a few of the playtest threads here, I get the feeling this approach is generating more heat than light.



Self fulfilling prophecy. These folks will always consider anything not in their particular interest as some sort of conspiracy.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> I've seen the video and I agree, that is what the goal is.
> 
> Unfortunately, "we are looking for consensus" telegraphs a message to a certain type of personality: they need to be very loud and very repetitive about things they like, and very dismissive and aggressive toward the things they don't, lest Wizards of the Coast start listening to the "wrong opinions."  It's not the truth, but that's the attitude that folks seem to carry. Scanning through a few of the playtest threads here, I get the feeling this approach is generating more heat than light.



Applying Mitchell's rant to the situation with WotC and the playtest...that's kinda backwards. 

WotC are the people in charge with the money and IP that Mitchell is complaining about. WotC (who have all the power) are looking for a false consensus from the playtesters (who have none of the power). WotC already knows what they want to do and are going through the motions of social nicety to get the players onboard with what WotC has already decided to do. The playtest process is the "tortuous touchy-feely discussion" Mitchell's complaining about.


----------



## Cadence

So, what happens if Elrond suggests Gandalf et.al. take Bilbo to the havens so Gandalf and Bilbo can hop a boat to Valinor with the ring?


----------



## Asisreo

CleverNickName said:


> The surveys fool us into believing that we have real authority...and that the louder we are, the more authority we're entitled to.



I think we have _some_ authority, though probably less than we think or hope for. But I try not to feel entitled to anything, especially for a product I've yet to purchase. 

And to be clear, the last playtest will certainly not be the fully released product. The playtest packet that would make it directly to product would probably be done with a closed team of professional playtesters.


----------



## MarkB

Cadence said:


> So, what happens if Elrond suggests Gandalf et.al. take Bilbo to the havens so Gandalf and Bilbo can hop a boat to Valinor with the ring?



According to Fellowship of the Ring, they get turned back at the borders for carrying contraband.


----------



## Cadence

MarkB said:


> According to Fellowship of the Ring, they get turned back at the borders for carrying contraband.




Pretty mean of the Valar to call Bilbo contraband, but fits the Vala's idiom up to that point.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Pretty mean of the Valar to call Bilbo contraband, but fits the Vala's idiom up to that point.



It's not Bilbo. It's his penchant for "Pipe Weed." The Valar are about as enlightened as an unenlightened mid 1980s person.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> It's not Bilbo. It's his penchant for "Pipe Weed." The Valar are about as enlightened as an unenlightened mid 1980s person.




Now I'm picturing Gandalf and the hobbits deciding to come back to middle earth when they see the big no smoking sign at the other end.


----------



## billd91

Ryujin said:


> It's not Bilbo. It's his penchant for "Pipe Weed." The Valar are about as enlightened as an unenlightened mid 1980s person.



It's well known that Bilbo had to give up smoking due to his advanced age. It's all about the edibles now.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> It's not Bilbo. It's his penchant for "Pipe Weed." The Valar are about as enlightened as an unenlightened mid 1980s person.


----------



## Gradine

What are these terrifying creations that are hanging out with the little boy who loves berries and cream?


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



When you're on the Pipe Weed, pretty much any food is awesome.


----------



## Gradine

Did they finally make a live-action Aqua Teen Hunger Force?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> When you're on the Pipe Weed, pretty much any food is awesome.




But it's much harder to find a pizza that pleases Mayor O.D. McCrack!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Did they finally make a live-action Aqua Teen Hunger Force?




Finally?????

Didn't you see S6 E10?


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Finally?????
> 
> Didn't you see S6 E10?



Clearly I did not


----------



## el-remmen

Galandris said:


> Tomorrow, there is a strong chance I'll eat a pizza with pear as a topping.
> 
> I'll post pictures so you can call the poison emergency service if I don't post again after that...




A friend in my current group makes a delightful pizza with rabbit and pear - i forget what kind of cheese - but regardless <chef's kiss>


----------



## Hussar

I often agree with David Mitchell on a lot of things, but not this.  

His complaint is that you are no longer allowed to say, "I told you so."  That's his main problem with consensus building.  The petty, completely unproductive retort for something going wrong.  What about when consensus built things go right?  Do you then pat everyone on the back and loudly proclaim how wrong you were for rowing against the tide?  

Nope.  Now it's only success because of a fluke.  It's luck.  It's successful because of a thousand reasons OTHER than it's because it was a good idea.  5e only succeeded because of Critical Role.  The game is, of course, terrible.  The players are terrible.  No one is having any fun playing the game because it is so totally bad and if they had only listened to me and people who think like me, then we would have a great game that is even MORE successful.  

Which is precisely what we see now.  WotC starts off 5e by emphatically telling all of us, in very clear terms, that they are NOT doing book churn.  They are going to release very limited numbers of books per year and each book will be a big deal.  Oh noes, the hobby is dying.  We have no shorter adventures.  5e is crap.  Oh, wait, it's selling like gangbusters and it's becoming more popular than ever.  Oh, well that's because the WotC fanboys will buy anything with a WotC label and they're the ones making it popular.  Lowest common denominator.  Oh, now we have this Critical Role thing.  THAT'S why 5e is popular.  On and on and on and on and on.

No one EVER admits that the consensus was right in the first place.  If the consensus idea fails, it's all their fault for not listening to me in the first place.  If the consensus idea succeeds, well, that's just luck, but, next time, they're going to fail.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Hussar said:


> I often agree with David Mitchell on a lot of things, but not this.



He specifies early on that he's against "false" consensus -- when a group in power pretends to include people not in power, so that they can pretend the result (which was probably foreordained) is what everyone thought was the right idea all along. Like the British soldiers at the north bank of the Ancre on the first day of the Battle of the Somme -- it was a suicide mission, and nobody calls them idiots for doing it, because they didn't have a choice; it was ordered by the donkeys who ran the show.


----------



## Gradine

I guess I can't stop you if you're going to be judgmental about it


----------



## Galandris

el-remmen said:


> A friend in my current group makes a delightful pizza with rabbit and pear - i forget what kind of cheese - but regardless <chef's kiss>




Not only did I survive but it was also quite good (pear, gorgongola, pine nuts, onion compote). Far from classic, though.


----------



## Aeson

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



Is that a Sid & Marty Kroft show?


----------



## Jacob Lewis

WotC's "authority" ends at the table where my friends and guests get together and play.

This also applies for anyone else's opinions, advice, and two cents.


----------



## Cadence

Just when I thought something I read in an Avengers FB page was the most poorly thought out thing I was going to see online today...  I should have known better.


----------



## Cadence

Inspired by a back and forth about what makes something an Avengers comic, but with relevance elsewhere ...

"Welcome to Xanathar's house of Pizza!  We present to you the 2022 Pizza of the Year - the Mexican inspired roller pizza.  We take a tortilla, some spicy melty cheese, and your choice of spicy meats and veggies (we recommend the beans) and roll it up and tuck the ends in."

"I mean, it's super tasty and maybe a better meal than your Pizzas.  But that .. that's not a Pizza... it's a Burrito?"

"No, it's a Pizza!  We're Xanathar's house of _Pizza_ and _Pizza_ is in it's name.  Look at all our marketing materials!"


----------



## payn

Not the pizza stories again...


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> Inspired by a back and forth about what makes something an Avengers comic, but with relevance elsewhere ...
> 
> "Welcome to Xanathar's house of Pizza!  We present to you the 2022 Pizza of the Year - the Mexican inspired roller pizza.  We take a tortilla," some spicy melty cheese, and your choice of spicy meats and veggies (we recommend the beans) and roll it up and tuck the ends in."
> 
> "I mean, it's super tasty and maybe a better meal than your Pizza's.  But that .. that's not a Pizza... it's a Burrito?"
> 
> "No, it's a Pizza!  We're Xanathar's house of _Pizza_ and _Pizza_ is in it's name.  Look at all our marketing materials!"



Starbucks:  Would you like to try our caffe macchiato?
Me:  Um, that's not a caffe macchiato.
Starbucks:  It is now!  (laughs maniacally)


----------



## darjr

Scribe said:


>



Pineapple?


----------



## darjr

I’ll say it again

To some people other people are not real.


----------



## el-remmen

Pineapple on Pizza > Gorgonzola


----------



## RealAlHazred

Jacob Lewis said:


> WotC's "authority" ends at the table where my friends and guests get together and play.
> 
> This also applies for anyone else's opinions, advice, and two cents.



Absolutely. Except... except for Matt Mercer, right? His authority trumps yours, I think... I'm just going by what I see on the Internet!



darjr said:


> To some people other people are not real.



It's wild, I can't even remember making this comment under my sock puppet account! But I must have...


----------



## el-remmen

I shared this on a couple of my threads in the D&D forum, but wanted to share it here. . . I started a new D&D blog (as I have often threatened to do) as an extension of my _HOW I RUN IT_ zine.  Remember our motto: "I can't tell you how to run your game, but I can tell you how I run mine!"

There is some stuff on there currently that I have shared on ENWorld before, but there is more to come in the ensuing weeks and months, including some near Snarf-Zagygian essays! 









						HOW I RUN IT.
					

"I can't tell you how to run your game, but I can tell you how I run mine."




					HOW-I-RUN-IT.com


----------



## Galandris

darjr said:


> To some people other people are not real.




It's not really that. It's just that I am convinced there is not enough CPU to simulate other people when they are outside of my clipping distance. If you've the odd feeling that days at work resemble a routine, it's because they are. Due to not being in the center of attention of the protagonist, you're just following a pre-scripted routine so the computer can determine where you are relative to the protagonist. None of us are real. 

I am the PC, though.


----------



## payn

Oh boy, you're asking _that, _from_ them. _Buckle up.


----------



## darjr

Galandris said:


> It's not really that. It's just that I am convinced there is not enough CPU to simulate other people when they are outside of my clipping distance. If you've the odd feeling that days at work resemble a routine, it's because they are. Due to not being in the center of attention of the protagonist, you're just following a pre-scripted routine so the computer can determine where you are relative to the protagonist. None of us are real.
> 
> I am the PC, though.



Honestly I didn’t mean anyone specifically here.

But you bring up a good point. Not everyone can be in hi res reality for each of us, we dint have the bandwidth or capacity.


----------



## Cadence

I feel like watching someone try to explain why in competitive MtG  one should use all 15 card sideboard slots you're allowed, or why (unless you're playing a particular kind of deck) you don't take 50% more of every card and make a 90 card deck instead of a 60 card one, and the person you're explaining to arguing against it.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I feel like not everyone has read "What is the Monkeysphere?" that needs to.


----------



## Scribe

RealAlHazred said:


> I feel like not everyone has read "What is the Monkeysphere?" that needs to.




Forgive me, as I know what Cracked is, but are their articles "The Onion" level of parody/satire, or is there actual science behind the monkey brained monkeysphere monkey article?


----------



## Cadence

Scribe said:


> Forgive me, as I know what Cracked is, but are their articles "The Onion" level of parody/satire, or is there actual science behind the monkey brained monkeysphere monkey article?



I think Cracked originally started off as a parody magazine (remember it on the newsstands when I was a child), but lately has frighteningly been one of the most straightforward, honest, and factual sites out there.   In any case, I generally go google just to make sure.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Scribe said:


> Forgive me, as I know what Cracked is, but are their articles "The Onion" level of parody/satire, or is there actual science behind the monkey brained monkeysphere monkey article?



The particular article in question is a humorist/novelist's explanation in layman's terms for Dunbar's number, which is an actual anthropological thing. Other articles on the site are humorous, but they're generally not factually incorrect. Well, aside from asserting Ted Cruz is the Zodiac killer, when we all know it's Elon Musk...


----------



## Scribe




----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Inspired by a back and forth about what makes something an Avengers comic, but with relevance elsewhere ...
> 
> "Welcome to Xanathar's house of Pizza!  We present to you the 2022 Pizza of the Year - the Mexican inspired roller pizza.  We take a tortilla, some spicy melty cheese, and your choice of spicy meats and veggies (we recommend the beans) and roll it up and tuck the ends in."
> 
> "I mean, it's super tasty and maybe a better meal than your Pizzas.  But that .. that's not a Pizza... it's a Burrito?"
> 
> "No, it's a Pizza!  We're Xanathar's house of _Pizza_ and _Pizza_ is in it's name.  Look at all our marketing materials!"


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> View attachment 268974




Flat!


----------



## Galandris

darjr said:


> Honestly I didn’t mean anyone specifically here.




To clarify, I wasn't taking it as adressed to me, I was just goofing.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Flat!



As a good pizza should be.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Not only are there no editions to D&D, there aren't really any role-playing games _other than_ D&D. It was the first game, and every other game is really just a set of house rules different people have done to the primary game! It's all so clear! It's D&D all the way down!

This statement will _definitely_ not offend anyone on the Internet. Absolutely no chance!


----------



## overgeeked

The single greatest moment is D&D liveplay happened on Critical Role Thursday night when everyone at the table stopped caring about the rules and just had fun.


----------



## overgeeked

RealAlHazred said:


> Not only are there no editions to D&D, there aren't really any role-playing games _other than_ D&D. It was the first game, and every other game is really just a set of house rules different people have done to the primary game! It's all so clear! It's D&D all the way down!
> 
> This statement will _definitely_ not offend anyone on the Internet. Absolutely no chance!



There is no D&D. Just Gygax’s house rules for Arneson’s game. Which were his house rules for Wesley’s game. Which were his house rules of Verdy’s game. Which were his house rules of Reisswitz’s game. Which were just him trying to simulate war in a game in order to teach officers to fight real wars.


----------



## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> There is no D&D. Just Gygax’s house rules for Arneson’s game. Which were his house rules for Wesley’s game. Which were his house rules of Verdy’s game. Which were his house rules of Reisswitz’s game. Which were just him trying to simulate war in a game in order to teach officers to fight real wars.



"I invented all games of all sorts: wargames, board games, roleplaying games, live-action games... Don't ever let anyone else on the Internet tell you otherwise!" -- Carl von Clausewitz, 1825 (probably)


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> The single greatest moment is D&D liveplay happened on Critical Role Thursday night when everyone at the table stopped caring about the rules and just had fun.



You can't have fun without rules.
That would be against the rules!


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> You can't have fun without rules.
> That would be against the rules!



It’s sad that some people actually think that. It’s a game. Play. Go have fun. “But the rules!” They don’t matter. “Heretic!” Yeah, I know.


----------



## prabe

I am shocked to realize there are people who disagree with us about the relationship/s between "rules" and "game." It is a problem of course that they do not realize it is we who are right and they who are wrong.


----------



## CleverNickName

A pizza needs a crust: a solid and uniform base to support all of the other toppings.  It can be as thin as a cracker or as thick as a baguette, but it has to be there.  Otherwise all of the things that make pizza worth eating--the tangy sauce, the cheese, the toppings--will never make it to the table.  A crust-only pizza is just a boring slice of bread...but a pizza without _any crust at all_ is just a messy, weird soup.

Nobody is suggesting that pizzas don't need a crust.  But there is a weird assertion that unless you have a sufficiently dense pizza crust, the cook is going to take advantage of you.  I can't wrap my head around that.

(Assuming we're still talking about rules.)


----------



## Xamnam

CleverNickName said:


> Otherwise all of the things that make pizza worth eating--the tangy sauce, the cheese, the toppings--will never make it to the table.
> 
> a pizza without _any crust at all_ is just a messy, weird soup.



I can see someone hasn't opted into the thrilling new airborne experience _Cloudy with a Chance of Marinara, Pepperoni, and Mozzarella_ at their local pizzeria.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> A pizza needs a crust: a solid and uniform base to support all of the other toppings.  It can be as thin as a cracker or as thick as a baguette, but it has to be there.  Otherwise all of the things that make pizza worth eating--the tangy sauce, the cheese, the toppings--will never make it to the table.  A crust-only pizza is just a boring slice of bread...but a pizza without _any crust at all_ is just a messy, weird soup.
> 
> Nobody is suggesting that pizzas don't need a crust.  But there is a weird assertion that unless you have a sufficiently dense pizza crust, the cook is going to take advantage of you.  I can't wrap my head around that.
> 
> (Assuming we're still talking about rules.)



The play loop is the crust, the game mechanics are the sauce and toppings.


----------



## J.Quondam

The play loop is your face.
The fun is shoving whatever tasty stuff you like into it.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> It’s sad that some people actually think that. It’s a game. Play. Go have fun. “But the rules!” They don’t matter. “Heretic!” Yeah, I know.


----------



## Malmuria

p. 581: we run out of pizza metaphors


----------



## CleverNickName

Malmuria said:


> p. 581: we run out of pizza metaphors



We're moving on to pizza similes.  It's like when you're ordering a pizza, and...


----------



## Hussar

Wow, three different posters, all more than ten years old, all with less than a hundred posts total each, suddenly decided to pop up and post in _that_ thread?  Sure.


----------



## Asisreo

Has progress ever truly been made in a thread like that? Has there been a time when there was two sides of an argument in this forum and everyone on one side ever goes "y'know, they're actually making sense. Maybe we should reevaluate ourselves." 

I feel once an argument has begun, the search for actual answers have long since expired, but that's just me.


----------



## MarkB

Asisreo said:


> I feel once an argument has begun, the search for actual answers have long since expired, but that's just me.



I disagree. I think it's always possible to sway someone with a convincing argument, and you'll never persuade me otherwise.


----------



## Asisreo

MarkB said:


> I disagree. I think it's always possible to sway someone with a convincing argument, and you'll never persuade me otherwise.



Y'know, you're actually making sense. Maybe I should reevaluate myself


----------



## Hussar

Honestly?  There have been a few times when I've had an epiphany in those long threads that has led to me having a better understanding of the issue.  So, for me, there's value in that.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> The play loop is your face.
> The fun is shoving whatever tasty stuff you like into it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

It's a weird thing.

You block people because they ... get involved .... in a lot of arguments.

But then if you start a thread, those people descend into it and get into arguments ... which means you can't read your own thread. 

Which is why you stopped posting threads. 

Sorry. If people don't like pizza, maybe they should go to the taqueria for food instead of hanging out at the latest pizzeria complaining that, once again, they don't have tacos.


----------



## Cadence

I use the "If un-checked, the content from users that you ignore will be hidden with a message indicating the user is ignored and an option to show the content." option.

If nothing else clicking on the ignored content often reminds me why things happened to begin with.

It also often makes me regret clicking on the ignored content.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I use the "If un-checked, the content from users that you ignore will be hidden with a message indicating the user is ignored and an option to show the content." option.
> 
> If nothing else clicking on the ignored content often reminds me why things happened to begin with.
> 
> It also often makes me regret clicking on the ignored content.




I tried that one time (I've tried various approaches to managing the ignore list), but I prefer to not even have that temptation. 

_Because I will look_, and then I will regret it.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Also, this-









						Every "chronically online" conversation is the same
					

At what point does discourse become punishment?




					www.vox.com
				




This is why I avoid social media (for the most part) and stick to old-fashioned forums and blogs. I thought that this was informative-
_Our collective thirst for gossip and controversy, particularly during and post-lockdown, has trained many to actively seek out content that aggravates us and immediately grasp onto its most extreme interpretation._

You don't say!


----------



## CleverNickName

I have long suspected that to be the case, @Snarf Zagyg.  It's nice to have one's suspicions confirmed.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I have long suspected that to be the case, @Snarf Zagyg.  It's nice to have one's suspicions confirmed.




Weirdly, that's what the arresting officer said to me too!


----------



## CleverNickName

Wanting to read about peoples' experiences with the OneD&D playtest material,
but having to sort through pages and pages of "philosophy" "discussion" first:


----------



## Scribe

CleverNickName said:


> I have long suspected that to be the case, @Snarf Zagyg.  It's nice to have one's suspicions confirmed.




My theory on this is that its a reflection of the state of distress people are under, and a desire to inflict that on others.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Wanting to read about peoples' experiences with the OneD&D playtest material,
> but having to sort through pages and pages of "philosophy" "discussion" first:




_Sure, sure. I get that you explained how it works in practice, but you don't seem to understand how it can't work in theory! _
-173% of EnWorld arguments (numbers are approximate, yet entirely accurate)


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> Wanting to read about peoples' experiences with the OneD&D playtest material,
> but having to sort through pages and pages of "philosophy" "discussion" first:



My favorite parts are the bits that go like this:

"So you're saying that [...]"​"I never said that. I said [...] because you think [...]"​"That's not what I said. I said [...]"​"You said this quote '  [...] ' which means [...]"​"Everyone knows that's not what that means. You keep saying that  [...]"​"No, the dictionary says [...]. But people aren't saying that, they say  [...]"​"No, show me the quote where everybody doesn't mean that [...]"​​


----------



## CleverNickName

"Well I hate change.  So here's a really specific, cherry-picked, farfetched example that--if you squint, and if you assume the worst possible interpretations--_proves _that it doesn't work.  Also I hate change, but that's entirely beside the point."


----------



## CleverNickName

J.Quondam said:


> My favorite parts are the bits that go like this:
> 
> "So you're saying that [...]"​"I never said that. I said [...] because you think [...]"​"That's not what I said. I said [...]"​"You said this quote '  [...] ' which means [...]"​"Everyone knows that's not what that means. You keep saying that  [...]"​"No, the dictionary says [...]. But people aren't saying that, they say  [...]"​"No, show me the quote where everybody doesn't mean that [...]"​​



"..but you said that I said that you said that I said that someone else said that you said that everyone said that I said that you said that nobody says that I said that you said that..."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> "Well I hate change.  So here's a really specific, cherry-picked, farfetched example that--if you squint, and if you assume the worst possible interpretations--_proves _that it doesn't work.  So clearly, you should either agree with me or go play something else.  Also, I hate change, but that's entirely beside the point."




Achilles: Look, it's my way or the highway. You either agree with me, Zeno, or you go play something else. You hear me? You're not going to be playing with me, you're going to be playing with yourself.

Zeno: Hey, relax buddy. An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind.

Achilles: You know what is going to make you go blind, Zeno? Playing with yourself, which is what you're going to be doing since you can't handle the OneD&D!

Zeno: ......_I hate you so much .... so very much....._


----------



## trappedslider

Website Allows You To See How Screwed You Are If An Asteroid Hits Your Hometown
					

Just what you need to feel cheerful.




					www.iflscience.com


----------



## Mad_Jack

darjr said:


> I’ll say it again
> 
> To some people other people are not real.




 Of course other people aren't real - they're all just voices in my head... My shrink says so. Or maybe I'm just imagining him, too.

On a more serious note, as someone with a borderline anti-social personality, most people I encounter IRL are basically just background noise to me unless I interact with them personally on a regular basis. People on the internet are mostly just a bunch of beeps and whistles my computer makes.





RealAlHazred said:


> The particular article in question is a humorist/novelist's explanation in layman's terms for Dunbar's number, which is an actual anthropological thing. Other articles on the site are humorous, but they're generally not factually incorrect. Well, aside from asserting Ted Cruz is the Zodiac killer, when we all know it's Elon Musk...




 Is it possible for someone's Dunbar number to be fractional?




CleverNickName said:


> Wanting to read about peoples' experiences with the OneD&D playtest material,
> but having to sort through pages and pages of "philosophy" "discussion" first:


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Website Allows You To See How Screwed You Are If An Asteroid Hits Your Hometown
> 
> 
> Just what you need to feel cheerful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iflscience.com



Thanks for that. It makes it so much easier to visualize the deaths of my enemies.


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> Website Allows You To See How Screwed You Are If An Asteroid Hits Your Hometown
> 
> 
> Just what you need to feel cheerful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iflscience.com



I like that the impact simulator is hosted on a .fun domain.


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> Website Allows You To See How Screwed You Are If An Asteroid Hits Your Hometown
> 
> 
> Just what you need to feel cheerful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iflscience.com




  Heh. The area that I live in has Pfizer Pharmaceuticals, Dow Chemical, and a _nuclear powerplant_ all within a ten-mile radius (not to mention a Submarine base and the company that builds the things). A guy with a van and half a dozen rpg's could wipe out southeastern CT in half an hour.
it's pretty much a given that _somebody_'s got a nuke pointed right at us. But nobody's around here is really afraid of getting hit by a nuke, asteroid or any other thing cuz we know that we'll all be dead the second it happens, lol.


----------



## overgeeked

If you think something can be both _voluntary_ and _mandatory_ you understand neither of those words.


----------



## Gradine

overgeeked said:


> If you think something can be both _voluntary_ and _mandatory_ you understand neither of those words.



_*Or*_ you're a middle manager.

It's FUNDATORY!!!


----------



## overgeeked

Gradine said:


> _*Or*_ you're a middle manager.
> 
> It's FUNDATORY!!!



Middle managers are definitely outside of my Monkeysphere.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> _*Or*_ you're a middle manager.
> 
> It's FUNDATORY!!!




PRAISE KIER!

You've just earned a waffle party!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> PRAISE KIER!
> 
> You've just earned a waffle party!


----------



## prabe

It's a weird experience, seeing someone I think ... it's probably safe to bet we won't agree, at all, say something I 100% agree with.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> It's a weird experience, seeing someone I think ... it's probably safe to bet we won't agree, at all, say something I 100% agree with.



This is the one reason, up until recently, I dont block folks. Though, sometimes they are just hellbent on a mission to make it a lousy place to be around here.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I see a lot of people in this forum like getting involved in land wars in Asia...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> It's a weird experience, seeing someone I think ... it's probably safe to bet we won't agree, at all, say something I 100% agree with.




_If that person is right .... then I must be wrong!_
-Me, undoubtedly.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> It's a weird experience, seeing someone I think ... it's probably safe to bet we won't agree, at all, say something I 100% agree with.



"Broken Clock Syndrome"?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> ...




This is why punctuation is so important. Just these two sentences-

WAFFLES HO!!
WAFFLES, HO!!


(One is a drunken statement of intent to go to Waffle House, the other is a drunken statement that gets you tossed out of Waffle House)


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> "Broken Clock Syndrome"?



Maybe, though I suspect this is a particular narrow overlap of experience and preference.


----------



## CleverNickName

Mad_Jack said:


> Heh. The area that I live in has Pfizer Pharmaceuticals, Dow Chemical, and a _nuclear powerplant_ all within a ten-mile radius (not to mention a Submarine base and the company that builds the things). A guy with a van and half a dozen rpg's could wipe out southeastern CT in half an hour.
> it's pretty much a given that _somebody_'s got a nuke pointed right at us. But nobody's around here is really afraid of getting hit by a nuke, asteroid or any other thing cuz we know that we'll all be dead the second it happens, lol.



I don't know if it helps relieve your anxiety, but:

Civil engineers know about RPGs and terrorists, and we design accordingly.  It would take considerably more than a half-dozen rocket-propelled grenades to cause enough damage to a nuclear power plant or chemical facility to cause a release...even with a clear, unobstructed flight path into critical areas, which shouldn't exist.

I'm more concerned about aging infrastructure, operator error, and earthquakes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I don't know if it helps relieve your anxiety, but:




I used to get anxious ....


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> I'm more concerned about aging infrastructure, operator error, and earthquakes.



Eh. Embrace entropy and enjoy the ride.


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> Eh. Embrace entropy and enjoy the ride.


----------



## Cadence

At some point around middle school there was an article in a local paper about how my home town in northern Illinois was in the top 100 Soviet targets because of a nuclear plant to the south and a bunch of manufacturing (particularly aerospace) in the city.

I remember that several of the guys at school thought it was cool and several of the girls were horrified.  I haven't been able to find a copy of that paper.  (The local one isn't on newspapers.com).

As an aside, we got to see the innards of the powerplant when they were building it during grade school.  I'm kind of surprised now that they let random people see it.


----------



## trappedslider

Cadence said:


> At some point around middle school there was an article in a local paper about how my home town in northern Illinois was in the top 100 Soviet targets because of a nuclear plant to the south and a bunch of manufacturing (particularly aerospace) in the city.
> 
> I remember that several of the guys at school thought it was cool and several of the girls were horrified.  I haven't been able to find a copy of that paper.  (The local one isn't on newspapers.com).
> 
> As an aside, we got to see the innards of the powerplant when they were building it during grade school.  I'm kind of surprised now that they let random people see it.



It would have to have been a counter-value target instead of counter force which is what a sub-base would be. I live in Roswell, NM and during the cold war, we had a SAC base home of the 509th the same bomber group that dropped the bombs that ended WWII. Our runway is also one of the few rated for a shuttle landing site.  For a time it was also the longest in the US. We also had a few missile silos around the area.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> At some point around middle school there was an article in a local paper about how my home town in northern Illinois was in the top 100 Soviet targets because of a nuclear plant to the south and a bunch of manufacturing (particularly aerospace) in the city.
> 
> I remember that several of the guys at school thought it was cool and several of the girls were horrified.  I haven't been able to find a copy of that paper.  (The local one isn't on newspapers.com).
> 
> As an aside, we got to see the innards of the powerplant when they were building it during grade school.  I'm kind of surprised now that they let random people see it.



When I was in engineering school, I got a tour of NORAD in Cheyenne Mountain.  We learned all about how it was built, how it was laid out, why certain buildings were put in certain places, the checks and balances, all that.  And ever since that tour, I sleep pretty good at night knowing the amount of thought, planning, and analysis that goes into the design of our critical systems.  It's like Rule 34 except for catastrophic situations:  if you can imagine it, a team of engineers has already planned for it.



trappedslider said:


> It would have to have been a counter-value target instead of counter force which is what a sub-base would be. I live in Roswell, NM and during the cold war, we had a SAC base home of the 509th the same bomber group that dropped the bombs that ended WWII. Our runway is also one of the few rated for a shuttle landing site.  For a time it was also the longest in the US.



Here's something not many people know:

When the interstate highways were being planned in the 1950s and 1960s, the engineers were required to design them such that there would be a certain amount of straight, level sections of pavement every few miles.  Why?  They are for emergency aircraft use.


----------



## Xamnam

prabe said:


> It's a weird experience, seeing someone I think ... it's probably safe to bet we won't agree, at all, say something I 100% agree with.



The real fun experience is watching someone argue for the same thing you want, but going about it in a way that seems to do more harm than good to the point.


----------



## J.Quondam

prabe said:


> It's a weird experience, seeing someone I think ... it's probably safe to bet we won't agree, at all, say something I 100% agree with.



There are a few around here with whom I agree nearly 100% with what they say, but roughly 0% with how they say it.


----------



## CleverNickName

I've got the next 5E Survivor thread lined up, but I don't know if we're ready for it.  
We're _barely _keeping our act together with the current one.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I've got the next 5E Survivor thread lined up, but I don't know if we're ready for it.
> We're _barely _keeping our act together with the current one.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> Here's something not many people know:
> 
> When the interstate highways were being planned in the 1950s and 1960s, the engineers were required to design them such that there would be a certain amount of straight, level sections of pavement every few miles.  Why?  They are for emergency aircraft use.



sorry bud but that's an urban legend


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## RealAlHazred

When the Autobahn was being planned in the 1920s, the engineers were required to design it such that cars would be able to take the turns at 93 miles per hour, and up to 99 mph on flat terrain. Hitler staged several speed tests on it in 1938; some of the speeds recorded (at around 269 mph) were among the fastest speeds ever recorded on a public roadway until the other day when I was almost late for work.


----------



## overgeeked

“That award-winning game designer stole my notes! Degenerate! Triggered!”

Oh yeah, that’s why I blocked you.


----------



## el-remmen

When everyone in a thread is arguing against someone you have blocked, that blocked person essentially becomes imaginary.


----------



## trappedslider

el-remmen said:


> When everyone in a thread is arguing against someone you have blocked, that blocked person essentially becomes imaginary.



I used to get beat up by my imaginary friend and his friends


----------



## Hussar

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 269096




Good taste in webcomics.


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> When the interstate highways were being planned in the 1950s and 1960s, the engineers were required to design them such that there would be a certain amount of straight, level sections of pavement every few miles.  Why?  They are for emergency aircraft use.




 The words "straight" and "level" do not compute when applied to pavement in Connecticut, lol.
I've considered starting a petition to get our state renamed from "The Constitution State" to "The Construction State"...


----------



## Asisreo

Y'know, it's one thing to dislike pizza. It's another thing to come to the pizza-lover's club and mention how pizza would be so much better if they were a hotdog. Then try to convince people that the problem with pizza is that they're not hotdogs by appealing to your own tastes.


----------



## prabe

Can you spot the unexamined premise in your post? I can.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Can you spot the unexamined premise in your post? I can.




_The unexamined premise is not worth arguing._
-Socrates

_I drank what?
-_Also Socrates


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> When everyone in a thread is arguing against someone you have blocked, that blocked person essentially becomes imaginary.



I love Snarf threads, though Snarf rarely ever returns. I think Snarf might just have everyone blocked and has no idea a discussion is even happening. Probably for the best.


----------



## AnotherGuy

el-remmen said:


>



My wife cut his hair once.

EDIT: I should add, she didn't know who he was specifically but found out from the other hair stylists that he was a movie star. She remarked to me how short he was, and this coming from someone who is 5.0-5.1 feet (154-156cm)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AnotherGuy said:


> My wife cut his hair once.




I always assumed Danny Trejo cut his own hair, with a MACHETE!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I love Snarf threads, though Snarf rarely ever returns. I think Snarf might just have everyone blocked and has no idea a discussion is even happening. Probably for the best.




The actual reason is more banal; my return to the threads that I create is like a box of crayons in a kindergarten classroom ... pointless. 

I usually try and lay out a decent (and sometimes even nuanced) series of thoughts in the OP. So I'll often get some of the following responses:

A. _You're right and you're a genius! _
Don't get me wrong- I love this! I work for stiff Manhattans and expressions of adulation and admiration unsullied by caveats. But other than posting a gif of Han Solo saying, "I know," not sure what I can add to this. 

B. _You're wrong for reason X!_
More often than not, reason X is something I already discussed in the OP. Now, I used to address this, usually by quoting the section of the OP where I already addressed it, but I have found that this isn't helpful. Thing is, people ... on the internet ... have an aversion to being wrong (I know, weird!). So I'd always get some variation of "How dare you assume people read what you wrote, especially when you write paragraphs," or "Why do do you demand people read what you write before arguing with you," or, "I don't care, you're still wrong." So I try not to do that.

C. _You're wrong for reason Y!_
People will argue that the post is wrong for some other reason. It may be a good reason, a bad reason, or it may be some pedantic nitpick. But I already said what I needed to say; if the person read it, and disagreed, then .... well, cool cool. That's like, their opinion, man!


As a bonus fun fact, during my semi-retirement I tested the limits of the block feature because I thought it would be funny. 

1000. You can block 1000 people. No more.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> I love Snarf threads, though Snarf rarely ever returns. I think Snarf might just have everyone blocked and has no idea a discussion is even happening. Probably for the best.




I love that you know which thread I was referring to.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1000. You can block 1000 people. No more.



I'm sure Sam Harris can help you with increasing that number.


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The actual reason is more banal; my return to the threads that I create is like a box of crayons in a kindergarten classroom ... pointless.
> 
> I usually try and lay out a decent (and sometimes even nuanced) series of thoughts in the OP. So I'll often get some of the following responses:
> 
> A. _You're right and you're a genius! _
> Don't get me wrong- I love this! I work for stiff Manhattans and expressions of adulation and admiration unsullied by caveats. But other than posting a gif of Han Solo saying, "I know," not sure what I can add to this.
> 
> B. _You're wrong for reason X!_
> More often than not, reason X is something I already discussed in the OP. Now, I used to address this, usually by quoting the section of the OP where I already addressed it, but I have found that this isn't helpful. Thing is, people ... on the internet ... have an aversion to being wrong (I know, weird!). So I'd always get some variation of "How dare you assume people read what you wrote, especially when you write paragraphs," or "Why do do you demand people read what you write before arguing with you," or, "I don't care, you're still wrong." So I try not to do that.
> 
> C. _You're wrong for reason Y!_
> People will argue that the post is wrong for some other reason. It may be a good reason, a bad reason, or it may be some pedantic nitpick. But I already said what I needed to say; if the person read it, and disagreed, then .... well, cool cool. That's like, their opinion, man!
> 
> 
> As a bonus fun fact, during my semi-retirement I tested the limits of the block feature because I thought it would be funny.
> 
> 1000. You can block 1000 people. No more.




People who don't want to actually discuss their ideas in conversations that are circular and repetitive redundant morasses of specious reasoning that emulate the 8th circle of Hell are weak-minded thinkers with no points worth considering and should just start a blog then. . .

Speaking of. . . . have I mentioned my new HOW I RUN IT site?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

AnotherGuy said:


> I'm sure Sam Harris can help you with increasing that number.




In fairness, I wasn't doing it to remove the haters (that's a list of ... _looks ... _very select list). I was just bored, and wanted to see if (a) there was a limit, and (b) what the site would look like.

It was .... pretty amazing, actually, because it clears out the threads quickly. Pretty soon, I just got pages of blankness for _years _(because I was blocking based on people who started threads .....). I thought it would be like, 100, or maybe 256, but nope. 1000.


----------



## trappedslider

I think this exchange from TDKR sums up how the rest of the D.C. verse views batman.

Superman:. If it isn't me, it'll just be someone else.
Batman: Really? Who do they send after you?


----------



## overgeeked

You can lead the newbs to institutional knowledge but you can’t make them think.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Many fine people on my block list. Fine people!


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> Many fine people on my block list. Fine people!




Well, you know what? Some of the commenters here are fine people but these Snarf and Snarf-adjacent folks, oh my god. They don’t like these fine people. They don’t like them at all. You know what? These Snarfs, they don’t like anything and they will block ... block these fine folks. You just can’t please them at all. The use blocks all the time. You know who else uses blocks? That wonderful fellow, Chris Pratt, in the Lego Movie. People told me that Chris Pratt was using the blocks correctly in that movie, but now these people don’t even like Chris Pratt as Mario. And you know what? I’m very close with Mario, very close with Luigi. Mario and Luigi like to come play golf with me. Mario golf. We play with the Princess, who is a real peach and a close personal friend of mine. Peach is so great. And the Toads? I do great with the Toads. The mushroom people just love me. They love Chris Pratt. All those mushroom people say that Chris Pratt is easily one of the top five Chrises and top six Pratts. And Mario is going to be so much better than that Eternals movie, because Mario knows when to leave a sinking ship. That's right, too much diversity and too many Bowsers in that awful Eternals movie. No one wanted to see that. Just an awful movie, and all the mushroom people and the tomatoes agree. And you can't even get tomatoes anymore because of inflation.


----------



## MarkB

trappedslider said:


>



I'm pretty sure there's some kind of exemption Claus.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, you know what? Some of the commenters here are fine people but these Snarf and Snarf-adjacent folks, oh my god. They don’t like these fine people. They don’t like them at all. You know what? These Snarfs, they don’t like anything and they will block ... block these fine folks. You just can’t please them at all. The use blocks all the time. You know who else uses blocks? That wonderful fellow, Chris Pratt, in the Lego Movie. People told me that Chris Pratt was using the blocks correctly in that movie, but now these people don’t even like Chris Pratt as Mario. And you know what? I’m very close with Mario, very close with Luigi. Mario and Luigi like to come play golf with me. Mario golf. We play with the Princess, who is a real peach and a close personal friend of mine. Peach is so great. And the Toads? I do great with the Toads. The mushroom people just love me. They love Chris Pratt. All those mushroom people say that Chris Pratt is easily one of the top five Chrises and top six Pratts. And Mario is going to be so much better than that Eternals movie, because Mario knows when to leave a sinking ship. That's right, too much diversity and too many Bowsers in that awful Eternals movie. No one wanted to see that. Just an awful movie, and all the mushroom people and the tomatoes agree. And you can't even get tomatoes anymore because of inflation.



My takeaway is "another castle" is probably Mar-a-Lago...


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


>




 Well, damn, I _hope so_... Have you ever tried throwing someone in front of a moving sleigh doing mach 12 at 20,000 feet?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Sometimes I see a thread, and I already know how it's gonna go.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sometimes I see a thread, and I already know how it's gonna go.



Oh yeap, with a drizzling of clickbait youtube videos. "this dude is right... WotC kicked my puppy straight through a brick wall!!!1!one!!!11!!!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Oh yeap, with a drizzling of clickbait youtube videos. "this dude is right... WotC kicked my puppy straight through a brick wall!!!1!one!!!11!!!"


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


>



This sounds remarkably like it's related to the thing that Reynholm Industries makes.


----------



## Scribe

oo boy, think I'll screenshot that one to be filed under "Irony".


----------



## trappedslider

why do i get involved with topics that are subjective and disagree with the op?


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> why do i get involved with topics that are subjective and disagree with the op?



A streak of contrariness?


----------



## Cadence

"I know I've participated in about a dozen long, and long since locked, discussions on the nature of pizza... and that I participated in most of them, and have had it explained to me in several that I'm conflating tostadas and pizza.  But here goes again."


----------



## Malmuria

It's not that the sky is falling is just looks that way because the oceans are rising


----------



## payn

This has oddly been one of my favorite days on EN world. The comments about old timers not being able to figure out roll20 and folks whose internet cuts out if they use the microwave at the same time is just a whole new dimension of funny.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> "I know I've participated in about a dozen long, and long since locked, discussions on the nature of pizza... and that I participated in most of them, and have had it explained to me in several that I'm conflating tostadas and pizza.  But here goes again."



For the record, there's a _lot_ of overlap.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Hussar

Sigh.  Every day, I just learn to hate fandom just that little bit more.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> This has oddly been one of my favorite days on EN world. The comments about old timers not being able to figure out roll20 and folks whose internet cuts out if they use the microwave at the same time is just a whole new dimension of funny.




At one point our house's basement wasn't furnished and the back room where the computer now lives was a porch.  Whichever folks did that renovation ages ago apparently borrowed the kitchen power so that our fridge, dishwasher, microwave, dehumidifer, and computer were all on the same circuit.   Since the dehumidifier was in the basement it took a while to figure out why the microwave and dishwasher running would only usually kill everything.    Thankful to be fiscally in a place now where having an electrician come in to run a new circuit from the box for part of it was something we could comfortably afford.   (And to tell us the bare wires we saw just hanging there in the basement when we pulled back the insulation weren't hooked up to anything).


----------



## Aeson

CleverNickName said:


> You can't have fun without rules.
> That would be against the rules!



And I have to schedule my fun.


----------



## payn

Caps locking occasional words really makes your points SOUND REASONABLE.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Caps locking occasional words really makes your points SOUND REASONABLE.




I HAVE TYPING IMMODULATION DISORDER!

I ALSO HAVE THE RELATED FORWARDING THINGS TO PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT TO RECEIVE THEM SYNDROME!!!!!


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Caps locking occasional words really makes your points SOUND REASONABLE.



Sorry, it's for emphasis


----------



## darjr

Hey, hopefully y’all never steal my pineapple before I had a chance to throw it away.

That would be bad.

No? Well I know you’re thinking it.


----------



## RoughCoronet0

payn said:


> Caps locking occasional words really makes your points SOUND REASONABLE.



SOUND REASONABLE?!!! 

I’M DOING IT BECAUSE ITS FUN TO SCREAM INTO ALL THE CHAMBERS OF THE INTERNET AND SEE WHO SCREAMS BACK!!!!


----------



## Mad_Jack

RoughCoronet0 said:


> SOUND REASONABLE?!!!
> 
> I’M DOING IT BECAUSE ITS FUN TO SCREAM INTO ALL THE CHAMBERS OF THE INTERNET AND SEE WHO SCREAMS BACK!!!!




And I'm doing it just to prove that I can scream louder than you, even though I have no idea why!!!


----------



## Art Waring

So... is there a "I didn't comment in the I didn't comment thread???"


----------



## darjr

Art Waring said:


> So... is there a "I didn't comment in the I didn't comment thread???"



It’s the same thread I think.


----------



## Art Waring

darjr said:


> It’s the same thread I think.



But all this talk of ALL CAPS and pineapple is just too overwhelming


----------



## darjr

Art Waring said:


> So... is there a "I didn't comment in the I didn't comment thread???"



Oh, btw I think this is the best post in the whole thread. At least right now.


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> Oh, btw I think this is the best post in the whole thread. At least right now.



Only because I follow the rules, and _still haven't commented._


----------



## darjr

The pineapple isn’t going to kill you!

Just do not order it.


----------



## Cadence

darjr said:


> The pineapple isn’t going to kill you!
> 
> Just do not order it.




The +5 pineapple of Mod protection is sometimes vital for the survival of the thread itself.


----------



## Art Waring

darjr said:


> Oh, btw I think this is the best post in the whole thread. At least right now.



Well I'll take it, till I'm dead or you find someone better.


----------



## Cadence

So, uhm.  Yes, everything there but a sentence or two was pretty much what I was going to respond in that thread about stuffed pizza...   And now we get to see if my guess as to the follow-up to such a post is correct.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg




----------



## CleverNickName

If "wizard" is just shorthand for "does The Thing better than everyone else," all classes are actually wizards.

Artificer: gadget wizard
Barbarian:  muscle wizard
Bard: music wizard
Cleric: church wizard
Druid: forest wizard
Fighter: sword wizard
Monk: naked wizard
Paladin: smite wizard
Ranger: camp wizard
Rogue: crime wizard
Sorcerer: blood wizard
Warlock: pact wizard
Wizard:  book wizard


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

CleverNickName said:


> If "wizard" is just shorthand for "does The Thing better than everyone else," all classes are actually wizards.
> 
> Artificer: gadget wizard
> Barbarian:  muscle wizard
> Bard: music wizard
> Cleric: church wizard
> Druid: forest wizard
> Fighter: sword wizard
> Monk: naked wizard
> Paladin: smite wizard
> Ranger: camp wizard
> Rogue: crime wizard
> Sorcerer: blood wizard
> Warlock: pact wizard
> Wizard:  book wizard



Yoinking this idea for an NPC in my campaign.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> If "wizard" is just shorthand for "does The Thing better than everyone else," all classes are actually wizards.
> 
> Artificer: gadget wizard
> Barbarian:  muscle wizard
> Bard: music wizard
> Cleric: church wizard
> Druid: forest wizard
> Fighter: sword wizard
> Monk: naked wizard
> Paladin: smite wizard
> Ranger: camp wizard
> Rogue: crime wizard
> Sorcerer: blood wizard
> Warlock: pact wizard
> Wizard:  book wizard




I always thought that Wizard was a sorry replacement for Magic User. I prefer the following more honest nomenclature:

Conan Copier
Lyre Liar
God Squadder
Hippie Reprobate*
Fighting Person
Stupid Fighting Person
Hippie Fighting Person
Thief
Sedona Magic User
The Devil Made Me Do It
Magic User

*Are you Circle of Drums, or Circle of Hacky Sack?


That said, with your naming scheme .... who wouldn't play a monk?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

If your entire online persona is based around getting people to click on links you post, people being skeptical of those links doesn't seem like it should be a surprise.


----------



## RealAlHazred

So now, sexual violence is "not cool," and "forbidden at this game," and "a bannable offense"? What's next? Will I not be allowed my racism and sexism? What are the villains going to be villainous about -- foul language?

/s I'm actually okay with sexual violence not being allowed at the table, and even in real life!


----------



## Hussar

payn said:


> Caps locking occasional words really makes your points SOUND REASONABLE.



I had to reread those first two words more times than I am comfortable admitting before realizing it did not say c*** blocking.  I'm not sure if that's funny or sad.


----------



## prabe

Hussar said:


> I had to reread those first two words more times than I am comfortable admitting before realizing it did not say c*** blocking.  I'm not sure if that's funny or sad.



I ... did not know one could do that do _words_.


----------



## overgeeked

“2+2=5.”

“Your math is off, 2+2=4.”

“Don’t call me a liar!”

Facepalm.


----------



## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> “2+2=5.”
> 
> “Your math is off, 2+2=4.”
> 
> “Don’t call me a liar!”
> 
> Facepalm.



"That's just, like, your opinion, man!"


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> “2+2=5.”
> 
> “Your math is off, 2+2=4.”



Too political.
Reported.


----------



## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> “2+2=5.”
> 
> “Your math is off, 2+2=4.”
> 
> “Don’t call me a liar!”
> 
> Facepalm.



"That's just what Big Math wants you to think! Open your eyes! If 2+2 added to 4, everything would be right with the world! But it isn't, is it? Once you start examining your assumptions, you realize the assumptions were false, created by the secret reptilian masters to keep the populace in line! Open your eyes, sheeple!"


----------



## Scribe

Wild.


----------



## darjr

Alright alright.

I put the pineapple on the pizza. I know it’s probably to late to remove it too.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Lyre Liar



Genius.


----------



## trappedslider

When "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace" was released on May 19th, 1999, an estimated 22 million full-time employees missed work to watch the film So many workers had plans to view the premiere that many companies closed that day, resulting in a $293 million loss of productivity


----------



## Deset Gled

trappedslider said:


> When "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace" was released on May 19th, 1999, an estimated 22 million full-time employees missed work to watch the film So many workers had plans to view the premiere that many companies closed that day, resulting in a $293 million loss of productivity




If those 22 million people spent an average of $15 on tickets, food, etc, it was a net economic boost of $37 million.


----------



## payn

Thats...an interesting twist on +threads. "pizza sucks donkey goobers and remember, this is a +thread, so you cant say pizza doesnt."


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> Thats...an interesting twist on +threads. "pizza sucks donkey goobers and remember, this is a +thread, so you cant say pizza doesnt."



better than "all opinions welcomed, but we're really just naughty word  on the actual pizza as opposed to praising it"


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> better than "all opinions welcomed, but we're really just naughty word  on the actual pizza as opposed to praising it"



No, not really. At least all opinions dispenses with the passive aggressiveness.


----------



## J.Quondam

"... because pineapple pizza is tangy."
"I never really felt that pineapple pizza is particularly tangy."
"Well actually, pineapple has a high acidity and contains a number of protein-dissolving enzymes. So while you feel that pineapple pizza isn't tangy (which is perfectly fine, because we all are just enjoying delicious pizza the way we like it, right?), pineapple is, in fact, definitely tangy, and so pineapple pizza is definitely tangy. Everyone knows that, it's right there in the chemistry. Probably you don't agree because you're just picking off the pineapple or adding extra cheese or something. Which is totally cool, because pizza!"
"Dude, lolwut?"


----------



## payn

Wow, you are on the bubble pal. If all you want to do is enter nuanced discussions and focus on a single point and turn the thread into a fact submission pissing match, im done wit ya.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ah yes, that tired old "I keep getting in trouble for telling _the truth, _so I can only sulk here in silence" argument.
Funny how the only folks complaining about "being silenced" are the ones who have been holding all of the microphones for centuries.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Ah yes, that tired old "I keep getting in trouble for telling _the truth, _so I can only sulk here in silence" argument.
> Funny how the only folks complaining about "being silenced" are the ones who have been holding all of the microphones for centuries.



Tough times for pizza haters indeed.


----------



## Malmuria

1974: A DIY hobby consisting mostly in the shared imagination of players and the trading of fan zines*
2024: Fully monetized, self-proclaimed "lifestyle brand."  Fans cheer the opportunity to spend more money and proclaim the inherent benevolence of multinational corporations.

...Progress?

* "Soon though, Gary came to hate APAs like A&E. Partly, he seemed to see APAs as ringleaders for thieves, and not just the sort who—in Gary’s estimation—stole a ride on his coattales. Remember that Lee Gold started with a photocopy of the D&D rules. Early on, copies of D&D, especially outside of TSR’s reach in the Midwest, proved scarce. *The $10 price of the original box struck many gamers as outrageous.* *In the first issues of Alarums & Excursions, some contributors argued that TSR’s profiteering justified Xerox copies of the D&D rules*."


----------



## Scribe

Malmuria said:


> ...Progress?




Seemingly.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Malmuria said:


> Remember that Lee Gold started with a photocopy of the D&D rules.



I still have a binder full of photocopies of the OD&D booklets my dad made, everything but the Blackmoor supplement (which I still have never seen, to this day). TSR ended up making their money back off us, though, and then some.


----------



## overgeeked

Malmuria said:


> 1974: A DIY hobby consisting mostly in the shared imagination of players and the trading of fan zines*
> 2024: Fully monetized, self-proclaimed "lifestyle brand."  Fans cheer the opportunity to spend more money and proclaim the inherent benevolence of multinational corporations.
> 
> ...Progress?
> 
> * "Soon though, Gary came to hate APAs like A&E. Partly, he seemed to see APAs as ringleaders for thieves, and not just the sort who—in Gary’s estimation—stole a ride on his coattales. Remember that Lee Gold started with a photocopy of the D&D rules. Early on, copies of D&D, especially outside of TSR’s reach in the Midwest, proved scarce. *The $10 price of the original box struck many gamers as outrageous.* *In the first issues of Alarums & Excursions, some contributors argued that TSR’s profiteering justified Xerox copies of the D&D rules*."



According to the inflation calculator that’s equivalent to $61 today. Considering that was the whole game in 1974, I’m feeling even more ripped off that about the same amount of money covers slightly more than 1/3 of the game now.

I miss the old DIY days. Yes, I know it’s still there. Behind the scenes and under the surface. And no, DIY is not the same as hundreds of 3PP pumping out products.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## darjr

I guess if you can’t make a sound pizza you can always throw pineapple on it.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> I miss the old DIY days. Yes, I know it’s still there. Behind the scenes and under the surface. And no, DIY is not the same as hundreds of 3PP pumping out products.



The DIY scene is still there, largely on (amazingly) Blogster.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

In a world full of Sackville-Baggins, be a Took.


----------



## Deset Gled

overgeeked said:


> According to the inflation calculator that’s equivalent to $61 today. *Considering that was the whole game in 1974*, I’m feeling even more ripped off that about the same amount of money covers slightly more than 1/3 of the game now.




In 1974, wasn't it the whole game.  It was just the expansion set to another game (Chainmail).  D&D started as the equivalent of a $61 DLC package.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> The DIY scene is still there, largely on (amazingly) Blogster.



And reddit, and discord, and...

I'm more referring to being front and center to the hobby. Not a secondary thing you have to go looking for or stumble across.


Deset Gled said:


> In 1974, wasn't it the whole game.  It was just the expansion set to another game (Chainmail).



The 1974 OD&D box came with an alternate combat system so you didn't need Chainmail to run it.


Deset Gled said:


> D&D started as the equivalent of a $61 DLC package.



Uh, no. Dave Arneson's Blackmoor game (which eventually became D&D) was started before Chainmail was published. Gygax listed Chainmail in OD&D as a way to boost sales of his other game.


----------



## darjr

Malmuria said:


> 1974: A DIY hobby consisting mostly in the shared imagination of players and the trading of fan zines*
> 2024: Fully monetized, self-proclaimed "lifestyle brand."  Fans cheer the opportunity to spend more money and proclaim the inherent benevolence of multinational corporations.
> 
> ...Progress?
> 
> * "Soon though, Gary came to hate APAs like A&E. Partly, he seemed to see APAs as ringleaders for thieves, and not just the sort who—in Gary’s estimation—stole a ride on his coattales. Remember that Lee Gold started with a photocopy of the D&D rules. Early on, copies of D&D, especially outside of TSR’s reach in the Midwest, proved scarce. *The $10 price of the original box struck many gamers as outrageous.* *In the first issues of Alarums & Excursions, some contributors argued that TSR’s profiteering justified Xerox copies of the D&D rules*."



Well, two things.

Alarums & Excursions, as far as I know, has never been free generally and only "recently" started offering PDF (I think it was 2016). Oh and if you want the PDF it comes with a _vow _and a price.


> If you vow not to send copies to other people, you may opt to receive A&E as a set of emailed files, mostly Word97, or as all PDF files (specify which version you want): $2 _per issue_.




Note the above is irregardless of it's quality, personally I think it's a treasure trove, mostly for histories sake. But there are glorious gems in there. Have you ever purchased one?

The other:

This site I support technically, for free currently mind you, is a pillar of a company that has it's whole own version of 5e D&D with a very awesome SRD under the OGL. An SRD that you can use _for free. _While I have nothing directly to do with it I'm proud I can help even if it's tangentially and in a very small way. In fact the hobby is a-flush with the above kind of thing and people adding their contributions in the very same heart as you point to in the first and try to deny in the second. Maybe even some of the very people you've tried to skewer.


----------



## darjr

And I forgot to post a link to A&E which is still going.



			ALARUMS AND EXCURSIONS (updated July 2021)


----------



## overgeeked

Horror fans don’t complain about too much horror in horror media. But people who don’t like horror do complain at length about too much horror in horror media. So, maybe, you know, if you don’t like horror don’t play in the horror setting and then complain about it having too much horror.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> Horror fans don’t complain about too much horror in horror media. But people who don’t like horror do complain at length about too much horror in horror media. So, maybe, you know, if you don’t like horror don’t play in the horror setting and then complain about it having too much horror.



Maybe the objection isn't "too much horror."


----------



## darjr

I'm sorry I laughed. It's not my fault.

I thought it was a new popcorn giff of some sort. I DID!


----------



## Asisreo

CleverNickName said:


> Ah yes, that tired old "I keep getting in trouble for telling _the truth, _so I can only sulk here in silence" argument.
> Funny how the only folks complaining about "being silenced" are the ones who have been holding all of the microphones for centuries.



These types have a hard time differentiating being silenced versus being ignored.


----------



## Malmuria

darjr said:


> Well, two things.
> 
> Alarums & Excursions, as far as I know, has never been free generally and only "recently" started offering PDF (I think it was 2016). Oh and if you want the PDF it comes with a _vow _and a price.
> 
> 
> Note the above is irregardless of it's quality, personally I think it's a treasure trove, mostly for histories sake. But there are glorious gems in there. Have you ever purchased one?
> 
> The other:
> 
> This site I support technically, for free currently mind you, is a pillar of a company that has it's whole own version of 5e D&D with a very awesome SRD under the OGL. An SRD that you can use _for free. _While I have nothing directly to do with it I'm proud I can help even if it's tangentially and in a very small way. In fact the hobby is a-flush with the above kind of thing and people adding their contributions in the very same heart as you point to in the first and try to deny in the second. Maybe even some of the very people you've tried to skewer.



The optimist in me agrees that creativity and community are irrepressible human qualities.  The realist/pessimist in me observes the way corporate interests insist on 'monetizing' those qualities for the gains of their shareholders.   It's why, for example, in the past 10-15 we've looked up and noticed that so many of the conversations that were happening in a decentralized ways on forums and blogs have moved to social media platforms which direct those conversations in particular directions, to the immense enrichment of their owners.  

Chaosium, sometime in the last year, had a plan to make NFT digital collectibles, which was a line in the sand for a lot of people.  But it sort of makes perfect sense for them: geek culture generally goes to such lengths to defend conspicuous consumption and brand (over)identification, with any criticism or even hesitancy subject to badwrongfun accusations.  Making that consumption digital instead of physical is a difference of degree, not kind.


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


>




 And three years later the same actor plays a child psychopath in The Good Son...

Coincidence? Or maybe it's actually the same kid in both films?  Home Alone 1.5: The Good Son...


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> Alarums & Excursions, as far as I know, has never been free generally and only "recently" started offering PDF (I think it was 2016). Oh and if you want the PDF it comes with a _vow _and a price.
> 
> Note the above is irregardless of it's quality, personally I think it's a treasure trove, mostly for histories sake. But there are glorious gems in there. Have you ever purchased one?



I've purchased a bunch of the early issues. They're great! I mean, there's a lot of back-and-forth in them -- they're basically the web forums of the day, with people responding to other people's posts, complaining about their pizza choices, giving their own pizza favorites, etc. Sometimes somebody will submit a whole class or a bunch of monsters or magic items, or mechanics for things. Fascinating stuff.


----------



## MarkB

Let me just check in on that thread I stopped commenting in a week ago because one or two people were arguing a point to death-

Oh. Oh no. People have moved onto _that_ old argument. And they're rehashing it all over again, for pages and pages. I was so much better off staying out of it.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> Let me just check in on that thread I stopped commenting in a week ago because one or two people were arguing a point to death-
> 
> Oh. Oh no. People have moved onto _that_ old argument. And they're rehashing it all over again, for pages and pages. I was so much better off staying out of it.



Isn't that how such arguments normally go, until one person gets bored of going in circles and the other declares a "win"?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> Isn't that how such arguments normally go, until one person gets bored of going in circles and the other declares a "win"?


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## prabe

The only thing you've found that works at your tables is the thing I have found works least well at mine. Seems as though we're both right and/or both wrong.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> The only thing you've found that works at your tables is the thing I have found works least well at mine. Seems as though we're both right and/or both wrong.




Sure. 

But I’d like to explain in lengthy and excruciating detail why you’re _more wrong _and I’m _more right_!


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Sure.
> 
> But I’d like to explain in lengthy and excruciating detail why you’re _more wrong _and I’m _more right_!



You have no idea how much I'd prefer a world where this wasn't exactly what happens to the one I live in.

Well, maybe you do.


----------



## Cadence

I'm not sure what annoys me more.  Folks who phrase or think we shouldn't use anything vaguely reminiscent of pineapple ever again for all time anywhere.  Or people who think that most people are saying we shouldn't use anything vaguely reminiscent of pineapple ever again anywhere.


----------



## J.Quondam

I just realized that I say it "PIE-napple" rather than "PINE-apple."
It's all just so complicated!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Q. How do you say “Eff you” in Italian?



Spoiler



Would you like some pineapple on your pizza?


----------



## MarkB

J.Quondam said:


> I just realized that I say it "PIE-napple" rather than "PINE-apple."
> It's all just so complicated!



It just occurred to me that I've never seen any actual pie recipe that involves pineapple, either savoury or sweet.


----------



## prabe

MarkB said:


> It just occurred to me that I've never seen any actual pie recipe that involves pineapple, either savoury or sweet.



That is easily remedied.


----------



## trappedslider

MarkB said:


> It just occurred to me that I've never seen any actual pie recipe that involves pineapple, either savoury or sweet.


----------



## Galandris

Just to be clear, this recipe can not and should not be "improved" by adding mozzarella cheese, tomato sauce and basil on it.


----------



## Gradine

Mad_Jack said:


> And three years later the same actor plays a child psychopath in The Good Son...
> 
> Coincidence? Or maybe it's actually the same kid in both films?  Home Alone 1.5: The Good Son...



Not coincidental at all, as it turns out. He and his agent only agreed to come back for Home Alone 2 in exchange for casting him in The Good Son. They had a whole other kid cast in the role they ended up having to fire.


----------



## Malmuria

I failed my not commenting in the other thread save


----------



## MarkB

Galandris said:


> View attachment 269424
> 
> Just to be clear, this recipe can not and should not be "improved" by adding mozzarella cheese, tomato sauce and basil on it.



Without actually following the link, is the website called "Marmiton" because all their recipes are in the "either love it or hate it" category?


----------



## Cadence

MarkB said:


> It just occurred to me that I've never seen any actual pie recipe that involves pineapple, either savoury or sweet.




Even the cakes using it are upside down...


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Scribe

trappedslider said:


>




I was on a back road after a night (Friday) playing 40K the next town over. Oddly enough, a cop was there and pulled me over. Asked the usual "been drinking? been smoking weed?" I respond with "no no, nothing like that" he asks what we are up to with my friends in the passenger and back seat.

"We where just up at a friends playing a game with these little models." and my friend showed him some out of his case.

"Uhh ok....drive safe."

A car with a bunch of 30+ year old guys driving on the back roads at 2am, after a night of playing with toys, nothing to see here officer.


----------



## MarkB

The one time I got pulled over was on the way back from a game in a nearby town, with some friends I'd given a lift. We were laughing very animatedly about the evening's events, and some lack of clarity as to which turning off the motorway I should use to get back to one friend's neighbourhood led to some somewhat erratic driving.

I hadn't been drinking that night (I don't drink) but my friends had, so it was a rather merry group that the officers found. I got out, answered some questions, failed to get a reading on the breathalyser the first time as I'd never used one before, and after finally providing a negative reading was allowed to move on, with a warning to be more careful.

"How did it go?" my friends asked as I drove off.

"It was a bit tricky. I had to blow twice."

I've never quite lived down that line.


----------



## Cadence

Maybe they just needed room for a hyperspatial express route?


----------



## CleverNickName

Well there it is, folks: my last "5E Survivor" thread (and it's a doozy!) 

It's been a good run, and I've had a blast, but it's time to pass it along to the next moogle. I'm curious to see how it will change in the next iteration.  (If there _is _a 'next iteration.')


----------



## darjr

Haha I’m no rick roll virgin.


----------



## trappedslider

MarkB said:


> The one time I got pulled over was on the way back from a game in a nearby town, with some friends I'd given a lift. We were laughing very animatedly about the evening's events, and some lack of clarity as to which turning off the motorway I should use to get back to one friend's neighbourhood led to some somewhat erratic driving.
> 
> I hadn't been drinking that night (I don't drink) but my friends had, so it was a rather merry group that the officers found. I got out, answered some questions, failed to get a reading on the breathalyser the first time as I'd never used one before, and after finally providing a negative reading was allowed to move on, with a warning to be more careful.
> 
> "How did it go?" my friends asked as I drove off.
> 
> "It was a bit tricky. I had to blow twice."
> 
> I've never quite lived down that line.



Now i want it to say "had to blow twice" instead of "Legend" under your name


----------



## Hussar

J.Quondam said:


> I just realized that I say it "PIE-napple" rather than "PINE-apple."
> It's all just so complicated!



Sorry, the English Teacher in me just has to comment here.

Of course this is how you pronounce it.  Vowels for volume, consonants for clarity.  But, in English words, you always begin a syllable with a consonant sound.  It's never Pot -ayt - o after all.  It's Poh -Tay - To .  Or Poh -Tah -To if you like.  In words where you have two vowel sounds together, we add either a y (as in piano) or a w (as in going) between the two vowels.

/end pedantry.


----------



## J.Quondam

Hussar said:


> Sorry, the English Teacher in me just has to comment here.
> 
> Of course this is how you pronounce it.  Vowels for volume, consonants for clarity.  But, in English words, you always begin a syllable with a consonant sound.  It's never Pot -ayt - o after all.  It's Poh -Tay - To .  Or Poh -Tah -To if you like.  In words where you have two vowel sounds together, we add either a y (as in piano) or a w (as in going) between the two vowels.
> 
> /end pedantry.



And a lot of (most?) native English speakers* put glottal stops at the front of words starting with vowels (eg, *'apple*). Sometimes this also happens between vowels (eg, *the 'apple* versus _*the yapple*_), though that's pretty dependent on dialect, iirc.

* Americans, at least. I'm much less familiar with how other English speakers do their thing.


----------



## Cadence

But, to be fair, it looks like you do like pineapple pizza.


----------



## Scribe

lol every time, its the same guy.


----------



## darjr

I could have used "That train don't pull"

DANGIT!!!

I keep forgetting to use it!


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Aeson

trappedslider said:


>



Or an ungodly mashup of all 3 is more likely. Starts Mission Impossible transitions to Pink Panther ends up Benny Hill.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

CleverNickName said:


> If "wizard" is just shorthand for "does The Thing better than everyone else," all classes are actually wizards.
> 
> Artificer: gadget wizard
> Barbarian:  muscle wizard
> Bard: music wizard
> Cleric: church wizard
> Druid: forest wizard
> Fighter: sword wizard
> Monk: naked wizard
> Paladin: smite wizard
> Ranger: camp wizard
> Rogue: crime wizard
> Sorcerer: blood wizard
> Warlock: pact wizard
> Wizard:  book wizard


----------



## payn

Its one thing to assume the worst, but totally another to then just act going forward as you _know_ the worst is true.


----------



## overgeeked

trappedslider said:


>



Mission Impossible is the power fantasy the players have in their head. Benny Hill is the swinginess of the dice.


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> Mission Impossible is the power fantasy the players have in their head. Benny Hill is the swinginess of the dice.



In my experience, the Benny Hill theme is always playing on the Bard side of the table.  The dice are either a rimshot or an orchestra sting.


----------



## CleverNickName

I want to post "There is nothing wrong with the Wizard" but I think folks would gripe at me for not being PositiveTM.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I want to post "There is nothing wrong with the Wizard" but I think folks would gripe at me for not being PositiveTM.



lol, yeah I commented on such earlier. + threads is probably not the best concept but I totally get asking folks with a certain opinion to stay out of a topic. Especially, since some folks will post for days and days to deny the OP, thus making any discussion on the topic nearly impossible.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I want to post "There is nothing wrong with the Wizard" but I think folks would gripe at me for not being PositiveTM.




My answer might be "the Sorcerer".


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> My answer might be "the Sorcerer".



You misspelled w-a-r-l-o-c-k but I know what you mean.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> I want to post "There is nothing wrong with the Wizard" but I think folks would gripe at me for not being PositiveTM.




In my mind, every Wizard looks like Ric Ocasek.







Who else is up for some SUMMER SUMMER SUMMER??!!??


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Snarf's Top Five List Of Things That You Forgot (OR NEVER KNEW) That Are Going To Be Inflicted Upon Your Mind This Monday Morning

The JUST WHAT I NEEDED Pop 80s edition.*

1. Just What I Needed. _The Cars._



Spoiler








2. Self Control. _Laura Branigan_.



Spoiler







3. Harden My Heart. _Quarterflash._



Spoiler







4. Voyeur. _Kim Carnes_.



Spoiler







5. Vienna. _Ultravox._



Spoiler








*ha!


----------



## billd91

Snarf Zagyg said:


> 1. Just What I Needed. _The Cars._



Also known as your reminder that Benjamin Orr's death in 2000 left a big hole in the Cars' subsequent reunions.


----------



## Aeson

billd91 said:


> Also known as your reminder that Benjamin Orr's death in 2000 left a big hole in the Cars' subsequent reunions.



Death has the habit of doing that.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

billd91 said:


> Also known as your reminder that Benjamin Orr's death in 2000 left a big hole in the Cars' subsequent reunions.




Well, that and _Drive._



Spoiler: Drive Video







The Cars is one of those bands that was absolutely perfect, and was incredibly massive at the time, yet somehow is less known today that it should be.

Maybe because they never were able (or that interested) in capitalizing on the nostalgia tours because of untimely death of Orr and because Ocasek was already fairly old when they hit it big.

ETA- Weirdly, I think that _The Police _are in a similar situation. Weirdly unrepresented for how massive and popular they were.


----------



## darjr

Tempted to make that thread a barren wasteland of empty, just more me.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, that and _Drive._
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Drive Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Cars is one of those bands that was absolutely perfect, and was incredibly massive at the time, yet somehow is less known today that it should be.
> 
> Maybe because they never were able (or that interested) in capitalizing on the nostalgia tours because of untimely death of Orr and because Ocasek was already fairly old when they hit it big.



They just release a new album didn’t they?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> They just release a new album didn’t they?




If by "just released" you mean 2011, then yes. 

Personally, I think that their five albums from 1978-1984 are their oeuvre, the 1987 album is ... fine, and the 2011 album doesn't count.


----------



## Cadence

Was in my regular rotation in part of the mid-80s.  (What was that service where you got to select a bunch of cassette's for not much money?).


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Was in my regular rotation in part of the mid-80s.  (What was that service where you got to select a bunch of cassette's for not much money?).
> 
> View attachment 269495




Columbia House. 

Their business model was perfectly modeled in _Better off Dead_.....


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> If by "just released" you mean 2011, then yes.
> 
> Personally, I think that their five albums from 1978-1984 are their oeuvre, the 1987 album is ... fine, and the 2011 album doesn't count.



2011…. 
Well


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, that and _Drive._
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Drive Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Cars is one of those bands that was absolutely perfect, and was incredibly massive at the time, yet somehow is less known today that it should be.
> 
> Maybe because they never were able (or that interested) in capitalizing on the nostalgia tours because of untimely death of Orr and because Ocasek was already fairly old when they hit it big.
> 
> ETA- Weirdly, I think that _The Police _are in a similar situation. Weirdly unrepresented for how massive and popular they were.



Are we really pretending classic rock isnt popular?


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> 2011….
> Well




Given that the _yin_ of the band died in 2000 and the _yang _died in 2019, pretty sure that we're not seeing any more albums.

Unless they go Tupac on us.


----------



## darjr

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Given that the _yin_ of the band died in 2000 and the _yang _died in 2019, pretty sure that we're not seeing any more albums.
> 
> Unless they go Tupac on us.



AI Cars album… _shivvers_


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Are we really pretending classic rock isnt popular?



Are the Cars really classic rock? They kind of are, but late 70s/early 80s new wave isn't a great classic rock fit. The amount of times they get played is, I'm sure, thoroughly dwarfed just by the number of times commercial classic rock radio stations play Van Halen's "Jump" alone. Add in Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama" and I'm sure they're just a blip on classic rock radio.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Are the Cars really classic rock? They kind of are, but late 70s/early 80s new wave isn't a great classic rock fit. The amount of times they get played is, I'm sure, thoroughly dwarfed just by the number of times commercial classic rock radio stations play Van Halen's "Jump" alone. Add in Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama" and I'm sure they're just a blip on classic rock radio.



After decades of being subjected to the classic rock stations here in MN (family, work, etc) I can easily say a day doesn't go by without both the Police and the Cars getting heavy rotation on such stations. You could argue they are new wave, but that doesn't take away from the fact these two bands were and remain very popular in music.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Are we really pretending classic rock isnt popular?




It's not that. I do a lot of work with the local high school band (I'm with the band!) so I end up in a lot of conversations about music with teens. Most of it is them telling me what they are listening to, some of which is quite good, and some of which is probably quite good but I'm too old to truly enjoy. And sometimes they are asking me about older music - and it's just that I've noticed that different bands are somewhat or well-known, and others ... not so much.

Some that I think are inescapable (The Police) don't register at all. The Cars .... nope. Others are well-known for weird reasons (the Kate Bush phenomenon was real). Heck, I had someone asking me about _White Town _because Dua Lipa sampled him. Now that was a blast from the past.

Anyway, the point being that these things can be hard to predict. If you're above a certain age, The Police (for example) was kind of like the new-wave Beatles, or Nirvana, in terms of popularity at the time ... but now, they're just another band without particular relevance, it would seem.

Just surprising to me.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Snarf's Top Five List Of Things That You Forgot (OR NEVER KNEW) That Are Going To Be Inflicted Upon Your Mind This Monday Morning
> 
> The JUST WHAT I NEEDED Pop 80s edition.*
> 
> 1. Just What I Needed. _The Cars._
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Self Control. _Laura Branigan_.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Harden My Heart. _Quarterflash._
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Voyeur. _Kim Carnes_.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Vienna. _Ultravox._
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ha!



I would have instead gone for "Passing Strangers" by Ultravox, but those were good choices


----------



## Cadence

billd91 said:


> Are the Cars really classic rock? They kind of are, but late 70s/early 80s new wave isn't a great classic rock fit. The amount of times they get played is, I'm sure, thoroughly dwarfed just by the number of times commercial classic rock radio stations play Van Halen's "Jump" alone. Add in Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama" and I'm sure they're just a blip on classic rock radio.



They make the description of the SiriusXM Classic Rewind station over on fandom.com.  And  are #94, 54, and 32 on the stations Top 100 party song list.









						Classic Rewind
					

Classic Rewind is a classic rock radio station on Sirius XM Radio, which centers on the Mid 1970s and 1980s, picking up musically where Classic Vinyl ends. It is heard on channel 25 on Sirius XM Radio. It can also be heard on Dish Network channel 6025. The channel is often billed as classic rock...




					siriusxm.fandom.com


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> They make the description of the SiriusXM Classic Rewind station over on fandom.com.  And  are #94, 54, and 32 on the stations Top 100 party song list.




 _There's a little black spot on the sun today ...._



PARTY PARTY PARTY!!!!!!


----------



## Cadence

As a follow-up, Shake it Up was played at 10:06 AM on the Classic Rewind Station today apparently...









						Classic Rewind Recently Played and Playlist - xmplaylist
					

Recently played songs from Classic Rewind: Classic Rock's second generation, with songs from the late '70s onward.



					xmplaylist.com


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> It's not that. I do a lot of work with the local high school band (I'm with the band!) so I end up in a lot of conversations about music with teens. Most of it is them telling me what they are listening to, some of which is quite good, and some of which is probably quite good but I'm too old to truly enjoy. And sometimes they are asking me about older music - and it's just that I've noticed that different bands are somewhat or well-known, and others ... not so much.
> 
> Some that I think are inescapable (The Police) don't register at all. The Cars .... nope. Others are well-known for weird reasons (the Kate Bush phenomenon was real). Heck, I had someone asking me about _White Town _because Dua Lipa sampled him. Now that was a blast from the past.
> 
> Anyway, the point being that these things can be hard to predict. If you're above a certain age, The Police (for example) was kind of like the new-wave Beatles, or Nirvana, in terms of popularity at the time ... but now, they're just another band without particular relevance, it would seem.
> 
> Just surprising to me.



Sure from a baby zoomer perspective these bands are probably more obscure. Though, id be surprised if they were totally unfamiliar with the hits even if they did see them as "dad rock".


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Top 100 party song list.




One more thing this made me think of. If you don't listen to 99% Invisible, you should. But even if you don't wanna, listen to this. It's about how the quest for the perfect dance party led to the rise of a most amazing and local sound in Jamaica.

I knew parts of this story before, but this made me go back and listen with fresh ears.









						Wickedest Sound - 99% Invisible
					

When Herbie Miller was growing up in East Kingston, Jamaica in the 1950s and 60s, he and his friends would put on their best outfits and head into the city. From blocks away, they could hear music pumping out through giant, powerful speakers set up at dance halls, bars and social clubs all over...




					99percentinvisible.org
				





_eta- there is also a perfect quote about Americans as tourists; you will know it when you hear it._


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> One more thing this made me think of. If you don't listen to 99% Invisible, you should. But even if you don't wanna, listen to this. It's about how the quest for the perfect dance party led to the rise of a most amazing and local sound in Jamaica.
> 
> I knew parts of this story before, but this made me go back and listen with fresh ears.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wickedest Sound - 99% Invisible
> 
> 
> When Herbie Miller was growing up in East Kingston, Jamaica in the 1950s and 60s, he and his friends would put on their best outfits and head into the city. From blocks away, they could hear music pumping out through giant, powerful speakers set up at dance halls, bars and social clubs all over...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 99percentinvisible.org



 I don't, but will check it out!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

darjr said:


> AI Cars album… _shivvers_




On the other hand ...

AI Kraftwerk album ....

_thinking ... checks out_.


----------



## RealAlHazred

> Funny, I was looking at this book called The Dungeon Masters Guide, not The Planescape Setting Book. Why do you think the DMG should be set in Planescape and nowhere else?






> Because it ties the whole edition together.




"That book really tied the edition together, did it not?"
"Fuckin' A."
"And this guy peed on it."
"Donny, please."


----------



## Gradine

Not sure how anyone could forget "Just What I Needed" when it played roughly 18 times every commercial break throughout the 00's.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> Not sure how anyone could forget "Just What I Needed" when it played roughly 18 times every commercial break throughout the 00's.




Weird .... all I remember is people demanding money in exchange for tote bags.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Hussar said:


> But, in English words, you always begin a syllable with a consonant sound.



You are an op-ti-mist.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ETA- Weirdly, I think that _The Police _are in a similar situation. Weirdly unrepresented for how massive and popular they were.



Sting getting weirder and less pleasant as the years have gone on, and having an absolutely toxic relationship with his old bandmates are big parts of the problem, I think.


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> You are an op-ti-mist.



Someome *really *pedantic might point out that needing that consonant sound for that starting vowel is why that indefinite article you used is "an" instead of "a.'


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Sting getting weirder and less pleasant as the years have gone on, and having an absolutely toxic relationship with his old bandmates are big parts of the problem, I think.



About 10 or so years ago The Police were on tour. They came through the Twin Cities on a Sunday, which happened to also be the 3rd of July. They had like 2500 people in attendance.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

billd91 said:


> Are the Cars really classic rock? They kind of are, but late 70s/early 80s new wave isn't a great classic rock fit. The amount of times they get played is, I'm sure, thoroughly dwarfed just by the number of times commercial classic rock radio stations play Van Halen's "Jump" alone. Add in Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama" and I'm sure they're just a blip on classic rock radio.



Yeah, New Wave doesn't have much of a home on the radio dial, unless you live in SoCal and can listen to KROQ. 

And everyone now largely listens to hyper-specific curated streaming feeds, so unless you somehow convince an 18 year old that New Wave belongs in their 2022 pop or EDM feeds, no one's going to hear about it.

It also doesn't help that New Wave is largely the music of Gen X, not Baby Boomers, and so once the Baby Boomers stopped being catered to by Madison Avenue, advertising and film soundtracks have skipped ahead to the mid to late 1990s and the 21st century. There really are too few Gen Xers, even at our height, to be worth marketing to extensively.

We shouldn't be able to name the handful of seminal soundtracks aimed at us -- Reality Bites, Less than Zero, Singles, Romy & Michelle's Wedding and Gross Pointe Blank -- on the fingers of one hand, but we can.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

prabe said:


> Someome *really *pedantic might point out that needing that consonant sound for that starting vowel is why that indefinite article you used is "an" instead of "a.'



Oh, for sure the initial vowel sound affects the preceding article, but the argument was that individual words "never" have a syllable start with a vowel. English is a lot more "complicated" (i.e. a disgusting mess) than that.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> They make the description of the SiriusXM Classic Rewind station over on fandom.com.  And  are #94, 54, and 32 on the stations Top 100 party song list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Classic Rewind
> 
> 
> Classic Rewind is a classic rock radio station on Sirius XM Radio, which centers on the Mid 1970s and 1980s, picking up musically where Classic Vinyl ends. It is heard on channel 25 on Sirius XM Radio. It can also be heard on Dish Network channel 6025. The channel is often billed as classic rock...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> siriusxm.fandom.com



But SiriusXM also skews very old. It's a service mostly used by truckers, not high school students.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> We shouldn't be able to name the handful of seminal soundtracks aimed at us -- Reality Bites, Less than Zero, Singles, Romy & Michelle's Wedding and Gross Pointe Blank -- on the fingers of one hand, but we can.




Well, this one is for you.


_you're welcome....._


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> About 10 or so years ago The Police were on tour. They came through the Twin Cities on a Sunday, which happened to also be the 3rd of July. They had like 2500 people in attendance.



Are you talking about the 2007-2008 tour? The tour that was, at the time, the 3rd highest grossing tour of all time (now the 16th)? The tour that reports 17,000 people in attendance on July 3, 2007 in St. Paul? That Police tour?

... Never heard of it.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> Are you talking about the 2007-2008 tour? The tour that was, at the time, the 3rd highest grossing tour of all time (now the 16th)? The tour that reports 17,000 people in attendance on July 3, 2007 in St. Paul? That Police tour?
> 
> ... Never heard of it.



I'm thinking of another tour that happened right before xmas by a different band that came in at 2500. I do recall people complaining about low attendance at that Police tour date though. I mean, really, 3rd of July?


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Yeah, New Wave doesn't have much of a home on the radio dial, unless you live in SoCal and can listen to KROQ.
> 
> And everyone now largely listens to hyper-specific curated streaming feeds, so unless you somehow convince an 18 year old that New Wave belongs in their 2022 pop or EDM feeds, no one's going to hear about it.
> 
> It also doesn't help that New Wave is largely the music of Gen X, not Baby Boomers, and so once the Baby Boomers stopped being catered to by Madison Avenue, advertising and film soundtracks have skipped ahead to the mid to late 1990s and the 21st century. There really are too few Gen Xers, even at our height, to be worth marketing to extensively.
> 
> We shouldn't be able to name the handful of seminal soundtracks aimed at us -- Reality Bites, Less than Zero, Singles, Romy & Michelle's Wedding and Gross Pointe Blank -- on the fingers of one hand, but we can.



I'm actually quite surprised at the number of recent teen movies and TV shows that used recognizable '80s / early '90s music in their school dance scenes; either the originals, or covers. The "Wednesday Addams" school dance is just the latest.


----------



## Cadence

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> But SiriusXM also skews very old. It's a service mostly used by truckers, not high school students.



It comes standard with a bunch of care now (I imagine especially if the parents are paying) and have all kinds of genres hiding on their.   Including a couple aimed at children.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Weird .... all I remember is people demanding money in exchange for tote bags.



Basically every commercial in the 00's had one of three songs:
*"Just What I Needed" by the Cars
*"Brave" by Sara Bareillies
*"Five-Dollar Footlongs"


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> I'm thinking of another tour that happened right before xmas by a different band that came in at 2500. I do recall people complaining about low attendance at that Police tour date though. I mean, really, 3rd of July?



17,185 seats in a venue that holds, theoretical max, 17,954. 
I'm not sure why people would be complaining about low attendance. They sold all of the tickets they had up for sale.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> I'm actually quite surprised at the number of recent teen movies and TV shows that used recognizable '80s / early '90s music in their school dance scenes; either the originals, or covers. The "Wednesday Addams" school dance is just the latest.




80s to early 90s stuff seems to be in constant play at a lot of restaurants and stores these days, so they might be picking it up by osmosis.  Also might have put up with their parents driving them to school for years with it on.


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> 17,185 seats in a venue that holds, theoretical max, 17,954.
> I'm not sure why people would be complaining about low attendance. They sold all of the tickets they had up for sale.



I'll try and dig up the article. I think even though it sold that many tickets, they didnt get that head count at all. 

Excel Energy Center can seat nearly 21K.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> It comes standard with a bunch of care now (I imagine especially if the parents are paying) and have all kinds of genres hiding on their.   Including a couple aimed at children.



Well, sure. That's what the truckers put on when the grandkids are staying over.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Ryujin said:


> I'm actually quite surprised at the number of recent teen movies and TV shows that used recognizable '80s / early '90s music in their school dance scenes; either the originals, or covers. The "Wednesday Addams" school dance is just the latest.



Tim Burton is a late boomer whose tastes are on the Gen X cusp.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Gradine said:


> Basically every commercial in the 00's had one of three songs:
> *"Just What I Needed" by the Cars
> *"Brave" by Sara Bareillies
> *"Five-Dollar Footlongs"



No baby back baby back baby back chiiiiiiiillliiiis baby back ribs chillliiiiiiis baby back ribs?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

I don't mean to freak anybody out here, but you can do _whatever you want in your home D&D game_.

WotC doesn't have the manpower to kick down everyone's doors and tell them to stop including stuff that they might not like.

Oh, they try. No one in Renton is allowed to ever use third party content or homebrew anything, but WotC don't even have the staff to keep all of Seattle under their jackboots.

You're free! You're all free!


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Tim Burton is a late boomer whose tastes are on the Gen X cusp.



But it isn't just his work where I've seen this happen. Unfortunately I can't dredge up any other examples from those truly forgettable teen-based movies, but they do exist.


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> No baby back baby back baby back chiiiiiiiillliiiis baby back ribs chillliiiiiiis baby back ribs?



Bar-ba-que saaaaaaaauce.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Ryujin said:


> But it isn't just his work where I've seen this happen. Unfortunately I can't dredge up any other examples from those truly forgettable teen-based movies, but they do exist.



Forgettable teenage movies are the only place GenX filmmakers are allowed to work! It's brutal in Hollywood!


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> Bar-ba-que saaaaaaaauce.



That was a great episode of Scrubs.


----------



## payn

RealAlHazred said:


> That was a great episode of Scrubs.



Like Chillis, I dont remember Scrubs, or much of the 90s.That was one good ad campaign tho.


----------



## Cadence

P1: "So pineapple doesn't exist anywhere at all in the campaign world?!?

P2:  "Nope!"

P1: "That feels really odd given that half of the pizzeria's are either run by or heavily influenced by folks from Detroit and NYC.  I mean, do all of the other vegetables like water chestnuts and sardines and random toppings show up but not pineapple?"

P2: "Yup, except for Tuna.  That's really bad too."

P1: "Worse than water chestnuts and sardines!?"


----------



## Scribe

Cadence said:


> P1: "So pineapple doesn't exist anywhere at all in the campaign world?!?
> 
> P2: "Nope!"


----------



## trappedslider

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I don't mean to freak anybody out here, but you can do _whatever you want in your home D&D game_.


----------



## payn

Two Zune tattoo references in one thread!


----------



## Cadence

I'm pretty sure if your ideal world involves Pizza Hut serving manure on one of its pizzas, that I just, ...  can't ... gurk.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> Like Chillis, I dont remember Scrubs, or much of the 90s.That was one good ad campaign tho.



All of Scrubs is on Amazon Prime. And it is a real mix of "oh, this was great" and "ooh, that did not age well." (Let's just say it's not a surprise that one of the executive producers has been accused of sexually harassing, and maybe more, actresses.)


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> All of Scrubs is on Amazon Prime. And it is a real mix of "oh, this was great" and "ooh, that did not age well." (Let's just say it's not a surprise that one of the executive producers has been accused of sexually harassing, and maybe more, actresses.)



Yeah Scrubs was a little too network TV for me at the time. I was full blown into Curb Your Enthusiasm and Sopranos at that time. Sit-coms have long been a hard sell for me. Though, I did like News Radio (not seen in like 15 years or longer tho).


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> Yeah Scrubs was a little too network TV for me at the time. I was full blown into Curb Your Enthusiasm and Sopranos at that time. Sit-coms have long been a hard sell for me. Though, I did like News Radio (not seen in like 15 years or longer tho).



There was a lot of clever sitcom writing from that period. But even Scrubs and How I Met Your Mother (whose writers spent a lot of time having fun with structure in many episodes, to the point that it'd be a great watch for an aspiring writer) are products of their time and have a _lot_ of sexism and plenty of homophobia. And unlike with Tony Soprano, we're largely meant to think the characters are the good guys.


----------



## Gradine

I'd throw Psych onto the pile, with the exact same caveats (homophobia, sexism), which is also on Amazon Prime, and holds up pretty well all things considered.

e: Psych also promotes pineapple a great deal, if that's your jam


----------



## darjr

It doesn’t matter what you do!
Every pizza place has pineapple in it!!!


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> There was a lot of clever sitcom writing from that period. But even Scrubs and How I Met Your Mother (whose writers spent a lot of time having fun with structure in many episodes, to the point that it'd be a great watch for an aspiring writer) are products of their time and have a _lot_ of sexism and plenty of homophobia. And unlike with Tony Soprano, we're largely meant to think the characters are the good guys.



Thats part of the issue for me with sit-coms in general. They are only surface level. Shows like The Sopranos can actually delve into their topics fully and give them context which doesn't happen in sitcoms. YMMV


----------



## Ryujin

And yet every now and then you have a sitcom like "Married, With Children" in which the characters are presented more as counter-example. Their flaws are a feature, not a bug.


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Thats part of the issue for me with sit-coms in general. They are only surface level. Shows like The Sopranos can actually delve into their topics fully and give them context which doesn't happen in sitcoms. YMMV



I don't know if I'd put it down to sitcoms being only surface level. They are usually writing for quick gags, but over time they can sometimes delve a bit. It's just that they usually don't have the luxury of doing so given the short comedy format - and any attempt to do so usually results in a "very special episode of...". Dramas generally have the luxury of time and a different payoff structure.

There are examples of sitcoms getting into some pretty deep territory like the "Maud's Dilemma" story on Maud. Of course, that one was a two-parter to get past the short runtime limitation.


----------



## prabe

I could insert myself into that argument, but why?


----------



## payn

billd91 said:


> I don't know if I'd put it down to sitcoms being only surface level. They are usually writing for quick gags, but over time they can sometimes delve a bit. It's just that they usually don't have the luxury of doing so given the short comedy format - and any attempt to do so usually results in a "very special episode of...". Dramas generally have the luxury of time and a different payoff structure.
> 
> There are examples of sitcoms getting into some pretty deep territory like the "Maud's Dilemma" story on Maud. Of course, that one was a two-parter to get past the short runtime limitation.



Sure, id didnt say it was fair, I was just pointing out why I dont like sit-coms. Many are prone to cultural gags with little context and often age like a glass of milk on a sidewalk in July.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Scribe said:


> I was on a back road after a night (Friday) playing 40K the next town over. Oddly enough, a cop was there and pulled me over. Asked the usual "been drinking? been smoking weed?" I respond with "no no, nothing like that" he asks what we are up to with my friends in the passenger and back seat.
> 
> "We where just up at a friends playing a game with these little models." and my friend showed him some out of his case.
> 
> "Uhh ok....drive safe."
> 
> A car with a bunch of 30+ year old guys driving on the back roads at 2am, after a night of playing with toys, nothing to see here officer.




 My vehicle with CT plates was pulled over in RI around 4 AM to ask why we had the front fork assembly of a motorcycle sticking out of the trunk... Despite being only a mile away from our origin point, and half of us still in costume, the officer refused to believe that we'd just come from performing in _The Rocky Horror Picture Show_.




Snarf Zagyg said:


> Snarf's Top Five List Of Things That You Forgot (OR NEVER KNEW) That Are Going To Be Inflicted Upon Your Mind This Monday Morning




 I was actually familiar with all of those videos... But then again, I'm like, _*old*_, 'n stuff...


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> And yet every now and then you have a sitcom like "Married, With Children" in which the characters are presented more as counter-example. Their flaws are a feature, not a bug.




But then you get the folks who think that Archie Bunker was a role model, not a parody.


----------



## RealAlHazred

The greatest episodes of Scrubs have stood the test of time. Like every other show that goes for 8 seasons, it had really bad episodes as well. But the one in question, was the one where one character throws another a baby shower, and gets an _a capella_ group who all work at the hospital to sing for it, and it turns out they just know the one jingle about babies...


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> But then you get the folks who think that Archie Bunker was a role model, not a parody.



True enough, and sad. Have you every seen Zombie Orpheus Entertainment's "JourneyQuest"? There are more than a few who think that Glorion is the hero of the piece, rather than a parody of murder hobos.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> Thats part of the issue for me with sit-coms in general. They are only surface level. Shows like The Sopranos can actually delve into their topics fully and give them context which doesn't happen in sitcoms. YMMV



You need to watch The Good Place and stagger away with a minor in Moral Philosophy.


----------



## Cadence

If you're never able to find a good pizzeria anywhere, and everyone else is...  maybe, just maybe, it's you?


----------



## RealAlHazred

Dang it. I hear Kim Mohan passed away. He was one of the best gaming magazine editors of all time.


----------



## overgeeked

Your anecdotes are meaningless, my anecdotes are meaningful.


----------



## Gradine

overgeeked said:


> Your anecdotes are meaningless, my anecdotes are meaningful.



Welcome to the human experience


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Ryujin said:


> True enough, and sad. Have you every seen Zombie Orpheus Entertainment's "JourneyQuest"? There are more than a few who think that Glorion is the hero of the piece, rather than a parody of murder hobos.



I guess those people just think it's the "can only tell the truth" gargoyle following him around rather than the "can only lie" one.


----------



## Ryujin

Benjamin Olson said:


> I guess those people just think it's the "can only tell the truth" gargoyle following him around rather than the "can only lie" one.



Also probably the same people who made every Kickstarter other than for JourneyQuest hell, because "We want more JourneyQuest and not what ever (waves erratically) this is!", but never backed JourneyQuest either.


----------



## CleverNickName

Me, whenever someone in the thread mentions Player Agency:


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> Me, whenever someone in the thread mentions Player Agency:




I literally came to this thread to make the same comment.

But this was my gif:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Me, whenever someone in the thread mentions Player Agency:




Hate the player agency, not the game.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I just can't get enough Player Agency in my games. I only plan the big, overarching, world-ending schemes of the Master Villain(s). For low-level, what-the-hell-is-going-on shenanigans in town or on the road, I turn to the PCs. I describe the world in great detail. When they focus on something inconsequential, I go into detail. Eventually, the PCs make their own problems, and then have to work to fix them. If you have enough linkages between your NPCs and their factions, each problem begets more problems (and maybe even solutions). Eventually, the campaign focuses on the Big Picture, but the shenanigans and hijinks along the way give it flavor and nuance. I just can't get enough of that Player Agency! Saves me an assload of work!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Has this been posted yet?


----------



## prabe

The problem with every discussion of player agency--every. single. one.--is that people cannot or will not agree on what, exactly, player agency *is*. Also, every one wants to be the correctest, so they'll argue ad infinitum (or at least ad nauseum) trying to ... I dunno, convince the people who agree with them?


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> The problem with every discussion of player agency--every. single. one.--is that people cannot or will not agree on what, exactly, player agency *is*. Also, every one wants to be the correctest, so they'll argue ad infinitum (or at least ad nauseum) trying to ... I dunno, convince the people who agree with them?


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


>



And ejecting from conversations that turn into discussions of player agency is probably the best thing. I didn't intend for an analysis of why those discussions are bad to be so ... unpleasant for you. Apologies.


----------



## MarkB

When I hear "Player Agency" I visualise a specialised staffing firm that's built their business model around providing substitute players to groups whose regulars are otherwise unable to run because some of them have called in sick or had to work late.

"Hey, how come I'm 16th level now? And when did my paladin turn Chaotic Evil?"

"Oh that was Bill, the temp. He did an awesome job last week. We're definitely goin to ask for him again."


----------



## overgeeked

When I see DMs bagging on player agency it makes me wonder how many unfinished short stories and novels they have sitting on their hard drive.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

MarkB said:


> When I hear "Player Agency" I visualise a specialised staffing firm that's built their business model around providing substitute players to groups whose regulars are otherwise unable to run because some of them have called in sick or had to work late.
> 
> "Hey, how come I'm 16th level now? And when did my paladin turn Chaotic Evil?"
> 
> "Oh that was Bill, the temp. He did an awesome job last week. We're definitely goin to ask for him again."




Huh.

When I hear _Player Agency_, I assume it's an agency ... for agents ... of players ... to represent them and negotiate a better deal for the percentage of loot.

_See, Thag of the Big Sword has had a great year ... maybe the greatest year. He has led this party in hit points dished out and hit points taken! His advanced numbers are off the charts, too- his Value Over a Replacement Barbarian (VORB) is easily the highest we've seen since Karnak the Unsteady .... and Karnak is a hall of famer. So when Thag is saying that he deserves to get 1/3 of the gold and first pick of the magic items, don't think of what it's costing you ... think of what you're gaining! SHOW ME THE GOLD PIECES!



_


----------



## el-remmen

Everybody knows that asking for player buy-in on a campaign premise is denying them agency.


----------



## Gradine

Without player agency you have a railroad. Without player buy-in you have no game.


----------



## overgeeked

Gradine said:


> Without player agency you have a railroad. Without player buy-in you have no game.



What’s weird is people don’t seem to want admit that without respecting player agency there’s almost no chance of buy in. I’ve never seen anyone advertise for a railroad game. If you think your players might not like being railroaded and you feel the need to do it anyway, hide the rails, lie to the players, and pretend they have agency when they don’t…that’s telling you something.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Me, whenever someone in the thread mentions Player Agency:




_Look at what you've started, CleverNickName. LOOK AT IT!!!!

Are you proud of yourself?_


----------



## Gradine




----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Huh.
> 
> When I hear _Player Agency_, I assume it's an agency ... for agents ... of players ... to represent them and negotiate a better deal for the percentage of loot.
> 
> _See, Thag of the Big Sword has had a great year ... maybe the greatest year. He has led this party in hit points dished out and hit points taken! His advanced numbers are off the charts, too- his Value Over a Replacement Barbarian (VORB) is easily the highest we've seen since Karnak the Unsteady .... and Karnak is a hall of famer. So when Thag is saying that he deserves to get 1/3 of the gold and first pick of the magic items, don't think of what it's costing you ... think of what you're gaining! SHOW ME THE GOLD PIECES!
> 
> View attachment 269565_



I'd rather this agent for when that producer is who I am negotiating with.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _Look at what you've started, CleverNickName. LOOK AT IT!!!!
> 
> Are you proud of yourself?_



Well at least I didn't Comment In Another ThreadTM about it.

Seriously though: the inability for some people to let others peacefully disagree with them is...impressive.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Seriously though: the inability for some people to let others peacefully disagree with them is...impressive.




Never argue with stupid wrong morons; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their years of experience.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> The problem with every discussion of player agency--every. single. one.--is that people cannot or will not agree on what, exactly, player agency *is*. Also, every one wants to be the correctest, so they'll argue ad infinitum (or at least ad nauseum) trying to ... I dunno, convince the people who agree with them?



Let's put aside agency for a moment and talk about the general problem here, there, and everywhere at the moment. You dont need consensus on definition to have a discussion. Ok, so agency has a much stricter definition for you than me, can I put that aside for the moment and continue with the discussion at hand? Seems the answer is no for many folks. That's what we call a position over interests problem. 

On the flip side, if somebody just tosses out "agency" to shut down your topic, they just did you a big favor. Now you know they are not worth your time.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Never argue with stupid wrong morons; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their years of experience.



It's true.  That's why when arguments start, I just hit the eject button.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Player Agency means simply that players have agency for their actions -- i.e., their actions can change the town, nation, or even world. If I'm running a module, and it doesn't matter what the player's do, after Scene 1 they will go to Scene 2, then that's a lack of player agency. It doesn't matter if it's a well-written sequence of scenes, if the players' actions are meaningless in the grand scheme of things, then they have no agency. You might as well be writing or reading a short story. I've run modules where one character absolutely will die, it's written in, and the module has no alternatives for if they survive. I've written scenarios where, once the BBEG is killed, the rest of the dungeon becomes unreachable and the PCs have to flee for their lives.

When someone tells me, "I hate Player Agency," it tells me they already know how they want a scenario to end. They've already written the finale, and if they let the PCs change things, then it won't finish neatly and elegantly like they wanted. Why bother playing at all, then? Play to find out what happens!


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Let's put aside agency for a moment and talk about the general problem here, there, and everywhere at the moment. You dont need consensus on definition to have a discussion. Ok, so agency has a much stricter definition for you than me, can I put that aside for the moment and continue with the discussion at hand? Seems the answer is no for many folks. That's what we call a position over interests problem.
> 
> On the flip side, if somebody just tosses out "agency" to shut down your topic, they just did you a big favor. Now you know they are not worth your time.



I think if you're discussing a thing, it helps if people can agree what you're discussing. If one of us normally defines something differently, maybe we can agree to use that term for this discussion, with a meaning we agree on for this discussion.

But I agree, just dropping a hot-button term into a discussion isn't likely to help that discussion.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> When someone tells me, "I hate Player Agency," it tells me they already know how they want a scenario to end.




*Achilles*: I hate player agency. Just ... absolutely hate it.

*Zeno*: You can't mean that, Achilles! You really hate player agency? Is that what you hate?
*
Achilles*: You're right, Zeno! I don't hate player agency ... I hate players. Players suck.

*Zeno*: Wait ... what? You hate players?
*
Achilles*: No. I mean, yes! I hate players, because players are people and I hate people. 

*Zeno*: .... you hate people? All people?
*
Achilles*: Yeah! People listen to Jimmy Buffet and voted for the Nazis, Zeno. Can't trust 'em, can't like 'em. I don't like people. Do you like people, Zeno?

*Zeno*: ....._I don't like you, Achilles_.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> I think if you're discussing a thing, it helps if people can agree what you're discussing. If one of us normally defines something differently, maybe we can agree to use that term for this discussion, with a meaning we agree on for this discussion.



Sometimes you gotta give to have the discussion. Some folks believe that sandbox means West Marches by default. I know from experience that is not the case. However, if somebody wants to use it that way to have a nuanced discussion on a tangentially related topic, I'll play along in interest of the discussion. If defining the term _is_ the discussion, than by all means pick a hill to die on. 


prabe said:


> But I agree, just dropping a hot-button term into a discussion isn't likely to help that discussion.



It never does, but some folks cant help themselves.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Maybe an example would help?

In *Hoard of the Dragon Queen*, the first 5E hardcover adventure (and not a particularly good one), the players approach the town of Greenest at the beginning of the scenario. They spot a young green dragon flying overhead. They then go to Greenest to help the defense of the town against the attack of the Cult of the Dragon.

But they're 1st level characters. You've just teased a _dragon_. If they are rules-lawyer types they know the dragon is far, far more potent than 1st level characters; the lowest draconic Challenge Rating is 4 or 5, if I recall correctly. If they are roleplayers invested in their characters, they know dragons are the most powerful monsters in the Forgotten Realms; they hear stories of heroes contending with dragons... and losing! But the module has no real options for if the PCs decide _not _to go to Greenest. The advice given is along the lines of _forcing _them to go to Greenest. Because if they don't the rest of the module doesn't happen.

And that's just... that's just really terrible adventure writing. "It doesn't matter what you yourself think your character would do, the module author will tell you what your character is going to do." What? Why bother going through the rest of the scenario to the final fight? (Where it is heavily stacked against the PCs and designed so that one character will die heroically. What? What if nobody is that flavor of heroic? Not considered in the module. Someone has to die. If the PCs can't make up their minds, the BBEG will pick someone based on these criteria...)

That's basically anti-Player Agency.


----------



## MarkB

payn said:


> Sometimes you gotta give to have the discussion. Some folks believe that sandbox means West Marches by default. I know from experience that is not the case. However, if somebody wants to use it that way to have a nuanced discussion on a tangentially related topic, I'll play along in interest of the discussion. If defining the term _is_ the discussion, than by all means pick a hill to die on.
> 
> It never does, but some folks cant help themselves.



Defining the term generally becomes the topic of discussion sooner or later, if only because of the new people drifting into the thread periodically and being confused by the inconsistently-defined term all over again, and then discussing the definition with each other.


----------



## AnotherGuy

RealAlHazred said:


> In *Hoard of the Dragon Queen*, the first 5E hardcover adventure (and not a particularly good one), the players approach the town of Greenest at the beginning of the scenario. They spot a young green dragon flying overhead. They then go to Greenest to help the defense of the town against the attack of the Cult of the Dragon.



Minor quibble. It is a blue dragon.


----------



## payn

MarkB said:


> Defining the term generally becomes the topic of discussion sooner or later, if only because of the new people drifting into the thread periodically and being confused by the inconsistently-defined term all over again, and then discussing the definition with each other.



True, which is why you should put much consideration into construction of your OP. Even then, you have about 8 pages max in any discussion to have it out before it turns into a pissing contest anyway.


----------



## MarkB

RealAlHazred said:


> Maybe an example would help?
> 
> In *Hoard of the Dragon Queen*, the first 5E hardcover adventure (and not a particularly good one), the players approach the town of Greenest at the beginning of the scenario. They spot a young green dragon flying overhead. They then go to Greenest to help the defense of the town against the attack of the Cult of the Dragon.
> 
> But they're 1st level characters. You've just teased a _dragon_. If they are rules-lawyer types they know the dragon is far, far more potent than 1st level characters; the lowest draconic Challenge Rating is 4 or 5, if I recall correctly. If they are roleplayers invested in their characters, they know dragons are the most powerful monsters in the Forgotten Realms; they hear stories of heroes contending with dragons... and losing! But the module has no real options for if the PCs decide _not _to go to Greenest. The advice given is along the lines of _forcing _them to go to Greenest. Because if they don't the rest of the module doesn't happen.
> 
> And that's just... that's just really terrible adventure writing. "It doesn't matter what you yourself think your character would do, the module author will tell you what your character is going to do." What? Why bother going through the rest of the scenario to the final fight? (Where it is heavily stacked against the PCs and designed so that one character will die heroically. What? What if nobody is that flavor of heroic? Not considered in the module. Someone has to die. If the PCs can't make up their minds, the BBEG will pick someone based on these criteria...)
> 
> That's basically anti-Player Agency.



That reminds me of one of the scenarios that someone ran at our D&D club. The set-up was "you've slain the dragon, now you have to get its head back to town to prove that it's dead, in order to prevent the corrupt dragon-cult from taking over." We'd been sold on the time pressure of the mission from the start.

So when the DM had us passing near another town and described it being under attack by a different red dragon, he sat back and waited for the party as a whole - and my oath-of-vengeance paladin in particular - to charge in like big darn heroes and rescue the town. And was very taken aback when I said that, for the greater good, we needed to keep heading back to the city and not get distracted.

And he basically spent ten minutes trying various arguments to convince us that we absolutely had to go to the town, my favourite of which was "It's getting late, and this is the only safe place to sleep for miles."

"Yeah, but it's being attacked by a dragon. That's definitively the least safe place to go to sleep."

I forget how it ended, but we did, in the end, go to the town and find out that the dragon was an illusion cast by the evil dragon-cultists to maintain the pretence that the dragon was still alive.


----------



## Cadence

"Wait, the dining car serves pineapple pizza and we can't find out until we show up for dinner!?!  Talk about railroad to hell!"


----------



## AnotherGuy

I enjoy pineapple on my pizza as much as the next guy, but sometimes I see someone roll up their pizza before eating and I get in the mood for ordering a calzone. I will ofcourse respect the rules of the pizzeria if calzone is not on offer.


----------



## RealAlHazred

AnotherGuy said:


> Minor quibble. It is a blue dragon.



Nevermind then. My argument is invalid!


----------



## Malmuria

RealAlHazred said:


> Maybe an example would help?
> 
> In *Hoard of the Dragon Queen*, the first 5E hardcover adventure (and not a particularly good one), the players approach the town of Greenest at the beginning of the scenario. They spot a young green dragon flying overhead. They then go to Greenest to help the defense of the town against the attack of the Cult of the Dragon.
> 
> But they're 1st level characters. You've just teased a _dragon_. If they are rules-lawyer types they know the dragon is far, far more potent than 1st level characters; the lowest draconic Challenge Rating is 4 or 5, if I recall correctly. If they are roleplayers invested in their characters, they know dragons are the most powerful monsters in the Forgotten Realms; they hear stories of heroes contending with dragons... and losing! But the module has no real options for if the PCs decide _not _to go to Greenest. The advice given is along the lines of _forcing _them to go to Greenest. Because if they don't the rest of the module doesn't happen.
> 
> And that's just... that's just really terrible adventure writing. "It doesn't matter what you yourself think your character would do, the module author will tell you what your character is going to do." What? Why bother going through the rest of the scenario to the final fight? (Where it is heavily stacked against the PCs and designed so that one character will die heroically. What? What if nobody is that flavor of heroic? Not considered in the module. Someone has to die. If the PCs can't make up their minds, the BBEG will pick someone based on these criteria...)
> 
> That's basically anti-Player Agency.



Well maybe in 1dnd, there will just be a cut scene that shows the PC dying heroically, and then the player will get a new pre-generated character automatically.  Which is great because I bought both the Greennest and the dragon fire expansion set and it would be a waste not to get to use it.


----------



## Cadence

My 13yo's group of 1st level characters a few months ago.

"While you're at the inn <insert rumour about Caves of Chaos>, you also hear a story about a huge red dragon battling a pair of heroes at a castle a few kingdom's over [aka tying in with the actions of their recently semi-retired 16th level characters]."

"Ooh, lets split the party and have half of them go check that out!!!  A big dragon!!"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

So, in terms of Player Agency, I have the following to say-

I just started playing Diablo 2 Resurrected on my PS5. Woah. It's a blast from the past! And in a fun way. Has it really been two decades? 

_Yes, Snarf, it has been._

Anyway, I know that Diablo 4 is coming out next year (maybe) and I wanted to go back to the roots. I know, I know, I should be playing Horizon Zero West, or some other amazing game with killer graphics, but it's fun, and comforting. I'll probably get around to playing Hades (roguelike) at some point too.

Oh yeah- I don't think I ever played it with the expansion pack back in the day, so I'm having fun as an assassin. Good way to blow through a few hours!


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> When I hear "Player Agency" I visualise a specialised staffing firm that's built their business model around providing substitute players to groups whose regulars are otherwise unable to run because some of them have called in sick or had to work late.
> 
> "Hey, how come I'm 16th level now? And when did my paladin turn Chaotic Evil?"
> 
> "Oh that was Bill, the temp. He did an awesome job last week. We're definitely goin to ask for him again."



I think of players (at the) agency.


----------



## CleverNickName

My wife and I cannot recommend Hades highly enough...or any game by Supergiant (Transistor, Bastion, and Pyre).  They are one of our favorite indie game studios.  Fun games with cool mechanics, good stories, and excellent music--what more do you want?


----------



## Umbran

I'm glad that user blew up at me, and not in a discussion.  That would've been nasty.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> My wife and I cannot recommend Hades highly enough...or any game by Supergiant (Transistor, Bastion, and Pyre).  They are one of our favorite indie game studios.  Fun games with cool mechanics, good stories, and excellent music--what more do you want?




What more do I want?

I want a game that knows, when I ask for a Negroni, I have implicitly demanded the use of top shelf gin. _Not well_.

Because I want a game that's better than my bartender last night.


----------



## CleverNickName

Eh, I'd just settle for a bartender that asks me if I want ice in my bourbon, rather than just assuming.  Yes, I sometimes order my bourbon on the rocks _and _sometimes I order it neat, Kevin.  I'm fickle.   But more importantly, I'm paying.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

MarkB said:


> That reminds me of one of the scenarios that someone ran at our D&D club. The set-up was "you've slain the dragon, now you have to get its head back to town to prove that it's dead, in order to prevent the corrupt dragon-cult from taking over." We'd been sold on the time pressure of the mission from the start.
> 
> So when the DM had us passing near another town and described it being under attack by a different red dragon, he sat back and waited for the party as a whole - and my oath-of-vengeance paladin in particular - to charge in like big darn heroes and rescue the town. And was very taken aback when I said that, for the greater good, we needed to keep heading back to the city and not get distracted.
> 
> And he basically spent ten minutes trying various arguments to convince us that we absolutely had to go to the town, my favourite of which was "It's getting late, and this is the only safe place to sleep for miles."
> 
> "Yeah, but it's being attacked by a dragon. That's definitively the least safe place to go to sleep."
> 
> I forget how it ended, but we did, in the end, go to the town and find out that the dragon was an illusion cast by the evil dragon-cultists to maintain the pretence that the dragon was still alive.



I have made a mistake like that DM once and not only did it result in a great solo sidequest for a character, it taught me to never, ever try and "script" D&D adventures. Player characters are gonna player characters. Just create situations and NPCs with their own goals and expect the PCs to Jason Mendoza it with Molotov cocktails all over.


----------



## Gradine

Sometimes y'all talk about threads in here and I think they're somehow hidden from me because I can't in any way find them.


----------



## payn

Gradine said:


> Sometimes y'all talk about threads in here and I think they're somehow hidden from me because I can't in any way find them.


----------



## Umbran

Gradine said:


> Sometimes y'all talk about threads in here and I think they're somehow hidden from me because I can't in any way find them.




That's a good thing.


----------



## Galandris

My players are currently in the same situation. They are on a quest to find a McGuffin, no particular time pressure (it has been sitting in a lost ruin for 100 years).

They start getting there. Two sessions of fun travel happen. We end the session in a random town. I prepare many (I hope interesting) things to happen on the rest of the journey.

No. They spent 5 sessions in the random town. I had to stuff it with mystery, assassins, cults, murderous middle school teenagers invoking a demon to destroy their school and in need of being saved... At this point, I had expected the campaign to become city based as they didn't shown any intent to move ever again. So I prepared many thing and retconned the city to be 20,000 and not 2,000 (which my player readily accepted, noticing that "many things are happening in this nondescript hamlet on the map").

Next session, they gather and decide... that they are late on their quest and move immediately. I drop my prepared city-based things, take my two sessions worth of events happening on the move that I had prepared, like two month before, hoping that I'd remember enough of it to make a fun session for them... but they took exactly NONE of them, hurrying toward their destination in the shortest path possible, ignoring a plague striken population of a cursed village, a band of mercenary-turned-bandit, an armaggeddon-bringing cult because... "we need to press along to recover the McGuffin!".

I half expect them to let me prepare the lost ruin adventure before saying, beginning the next session "after all, I feel guilty about the plague-stricken villagers, let's move back..."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Eh, *I'd just settle for a bartender* that asks me if I want ice in my bourbon, rather than just assuming.  Yes, I sometimes order my bourbon on the rocks _and _sometimes I order it neat, Kevin.  I'm fickle.   But more importantly, I'm paying.




When it comes to your house, your significant other, and your bartender ....

_never settle. _


----------



## RealAlHazred

RealAlHazred said:


> Dang it. I hear Kim Mohan passed away. He was one of the best gaming magazine editors of all time.



Confirmed.


----------



## darjr

Tell us of this magic you have!


Gradine said:


> Sometimes y'all talk about threads in here and I think they're somehow hidden from me because I can't in any way find them.


----------



## darjr

RealAlHazred said:


> Confirmed.



It's front page.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> When it comes to your house, your significant other, and your bartender ....
> 
> _never settle. _



Sounds like a well booze ad.


----------



## RealAlHazred

darjr said:


> It's front page.



You think I have time to see what other people are saying? I'm here to talk about my things, and that's it!

Yeah, I'm currently at work and checking ENWorld on my phone, which means I'm missing a lot I suspect...


----------



## darjr

RealAlHazred said:


> You think I have time to see what other people are saying? I'm here to talk about my things, and that's it!
> 
> Yeah, I'm currently at work and checking ENWorld on my phone, which means I'm missing a lot I suspect...



oh, yea been there.

His passing is incredibly sad. I'm heartbroken.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> You think I have time to see what other people are saying? I'm here to talk about my things, and that's it!




I hear ya! I don't even have time to know what I'm saying.


----------



## Malmuria

CleverNickName said:


> My wife and I cannot recommend Hades highly enough...or any game by Supergiant (Transistor, Bastion, and Pyre).  They are one of our favorite indie game studios.  Fun games with cool mechanics, good stories, and excellent music--what more do you want?



Amazing games!


----------



## Gradine

Bastion is a great game; the narration gets a lot of love (and rightfully so) but I think it doesn't get nearly enough credit for its environmental storytelling and worldbuilding. It's so damn good.

Also "Build That Wall" is absolutely evergreen. I'd consider it completely on the nose if it came out in 2016 and not, you know, 2011.

Transistor is a bit more of an acquired taste but that soundtrack...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Gradine said:


> Welcome to the human experience




 Can I get my admission price refunded? This place sucks - I'm heading over to the _Star Trek Experience_ instead.




Umbran said:


> I'm glad that user blew up at me, and not in a discussion.  That would've been nasty.




 Yeah, we could have all ended up covered in sticky red bits of exploding poster...




Snarf Zagyg said:


> I hear ya! I don't even have time to know what I'm saying.




 I've decided I no longer have the time to type out my posts, so you'll all just have to assume I've made them and react accordingly.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

RealAlHazred said:


> Maybe an example would help?
> 
> In *Hoard of the Dragon Queen*, the first 5E hardcover adventure (and not a particularly good one), the players approach the town of Greenest at the beginning of the scenario. They spot a young green dragon flying overhead. They then go to Greenest to help the defense of the town against the attack of the Cult of the Dragon.
> 
> But they're 1st level characters. You've just teased a _dragon_. If they are rules-lawyer types they know the dragon is far, far more potent than 1st level characters; the lowest draconic Challenge Rating is 4 or 5, if I recall correctly. If they are roleplayers invested in their characters, they know dragons are the most powerful monsters in the Forgotten Realms; they hear stories of heroes contending with dragons... and losing! But the module has no real options for if the PCs decide _not _to go to Greenest. The advice given is along the lines of _forcing _them to go to Greenest. Because if they don't the rest of the module doesn't happen.
> 
> And that's just... that's just really terrible adventure writing. "It doesn't matter what you yourself think your character would do, the module author will tell you what your character is going to do." What? Why bother going through the rest of the scenario to the final fight? (Where it is heavily stacked against the PCs and designed so that one character will die heroically. What? What if nobody is that flavor of heroic? Not considered in the module. Someone has to die. If the PCs can't make up their minds, the BBEG will pick someone based on these criteria...)
> 
> That's basically anti-Player Agency.



And the next couple sessions of the campaign involve just telling players they have to go on dangerous missions in the town as level 1 characters with no rest who have already weathered multiple encounters, when there's a castle full of other people who could instead, many of whom are trained guards who know the terrain. And then it railroads you into trying to fight the dragon when _it's a dragon!_

But I think the issue here is less that it removes player agency. The beginning of campaigns often have little in the way of agency, because they have to start somewhere. Had the scenario begun with the party staying in Greenest and it then being besieged by the cultists, trapping them, I'd consider that a strong opening and it has no more agency. The reason it's a terrible note to start the campaign on is that it requires a decision that goes against character for most characters (I think they also start as paid guards for a passing caravan, so their primary obligation is to protect the caravan not the town even if they somehow think they can take on an army and a dragon). It basically draws undue attention to the artifice of a campaign, by giving the players no motivation to do the thing it needs them to do, but then demanding they do it if they want to play the campaign. I'm fine with a campaign starting with a railroad, but it should be a railroad that makes character sense for most characters. The lack of agency in the opening scenes of a campaign isn't the problem. Forcing lots of inevitable arguments between the DM and anyone roleplaying worth a damn that end with "sorry, you have no agency and your character's personality isn't allowed to matter" is a huge problem.

At the beginning of the Rambo NES game it gives you the option to stay in prison rather than go on your mission. If you choose prison it just says "the game doesn't start until you say YES" to the mission. This is basically what our DM said when we played HotDQ.


----------



## Ryujin

The flipside of this is when the baron invites your fledgling party to meet with the ambassador of a neighbouring nation, who has a job for you, and the party's 3rd level Sorcerer decides to pick a fight with said ambassador, who is a 12th level Bard, and could one-shot said Sorcerer with both hands tied behind his back. Bards get a lot of practice at that, or handcuffed to the bedpost, you see.

Cue me as DM literally, not figuratively flipping the module over my shoulder and saying, "Next."


----------



## Cadence

A: I can't stand the modern coffee shops for getting coffee!!

B: Is it the cost? The quality? The taste?

A: It's that there are too many extra things I could get with it! Frappe, caramel mocha, it goes on forever!

B: Do they not sell plain black coffee!?!?

A: They do.

B: So what's the problem?

A: They make me ignore that I could have bought the extras I didn't want!


----------



## CleverNickName

Not all Christmas music is terrible.  David Bowie and Bing Crosby would like to remind us that some of it is quite good.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Not all Christmas music is terrible.  David Bowie and Bing Crosby would like to remind us that some of it is quite good.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ya know what?  I went ahead and created a thread for it.

Let's challenge the notion that *all *holiday music is bad.


----------



## prabe

... But it's the way to bet.


----------



## CleverNickName

*Velvet Hammer*
_Ingredients_
A pint of your favorite vanilla ice cream
A bottle of your favorite blended whiskey

_Instructions_
Put two scoops of ice cream into a blender.
Add "enough" whiskey.
Blend until smooth.
Pour into a frozen pint glass.
Garnish with grated nutmeg.


----------



## billd91

I love the usual tone policing on certain topics.
And, yes, you should be detecting sarcasm in that statement.


----------



## Malmuria

Cadence said:


> A: I can't stand the modern coffee shops for getting coffee!!
> 
> B: Is it the cost? The quality? The taste?
> 
> A: It's that there are too many extra things I could get with it! Frappe, caramel mocha, it goes on forever!
> 
> B: Do they not sell plain black coffee!?!?
> 
> A: They do.
> 
> B: So what's the problem?
> 
> A: They make me ignore that I could have bought the extras I didn't want!



It's true that I find a 600 calorie coffee milkshake to be a bit excessive, but what I really judge are the workplace conditions and pay


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> I love the usual tone policing on certain topics.
> And, yes, you should be detecting sarcasm in that statement.



Oh, good. I just got my sarcasmometer back from the shop.


----------



## trappedslider

The biggest problem with D&D is everyone else.


----------



## Scribe

trappedslider said:


> The biggest problem with D&D is everyone else.




I dont know about everyone else, I think its just That One Guy.


----------



## prabe

Scribe said:


> I dont know about everyone else, I think its just That One Guy.



And That One Guy--I'm *positive* about this--isn't me.


----------



## Scribe

prabe said:


> And That One Guy--I'm *positive* about this--isn't me.




Of course not, this is esteemed company.


----------



## Mad_Jack

prabe said:


> And That One Guy--I'm *positive* about this--isn't me.




 Of course not... It's_* ME*_.

I admit it! _I'M_ That One Guy everybody talks about.
It's all my fault - and it's all part of my Fiendish Plan ... Muahahahahahaha!


 Well, okay, not really. I'm just bored, and screwing up everyone else's fun is entertaining. (Sort of...I mean, I _wanted_ to go around setting everyone on fire, but apparently that's illegal.)




Scribe said:


> Of course not, this is esteemed company.




How _dare_ you, sir!!! I'll have you know that I am one of the lowest examples of scum and villainy on this forum, and I've worked very hard to become so...


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> *Velvet Hammer*
> _Ingredients_
> A pint of your favorite vanilla ice cream
> A bottle of your favorite blended whiskey
> 
> _Instructions_
> Put two scoops of ice cream into a blender.
> Add "enough" whiskey.
> Blend until smooth.
> Pour into a frozen pint glass.
> Garnish with grated nutmeg.



Crack an egg into that and voila! Breakfast!


----------



## CleverNickName

No, no, it's all MY fault!
FOOLS!!  It was ME!  I'm the one who filled out that Wizards of the Coast playtest survey with all the _wrong _answers!  Ha!
And I WAS THE ONE who wrote that house-rule you hate, then printed it out and sent it to all of your players _and the game developers!  _
You thought that you could just play D&D however you want?  You were WRONG!  If it's in the books, it's _the law,_ and I'll have you arrested if you play it any other way!  HAHAHAH!
I have been here, all this time, secretly pulling the strings to _force everyone _to play it _exactly the way I tell you to!  Nobody can stop me!!!  _






...or so you would think, judging by how some people act.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Benjamin Olson said:


> And the next couple sessions of the campaign involve just telling players they have to go on dangerous missions in the town as level 1 characters with no rest who have already weathered multiple encounters, when there's a castle full of other people who could instead, many of whom are trained guards who know the terrain. And then it railroads you into trying to fight the dragon when _it's a dragon!_
> 
> But I think the issue here is less that it removes player agency. The beginning of campaigns often have little in the way of agency, because they have to start somewhere. Had the scenario begun with the party staying in Greenest and it then being besieged by the cultists, trapping them, I'd consider that a strong opening and it has no more agency. The reason it's a terrible note to start the campaign on is that it requires a decision that goes against character for most characters (I think they also start as paid guards for a passing caravan, so their primary obligation is to protect the caravan not the town even if they somehow think they can take on an army and a dragon). It basically draws undue attention to the artifice of a campaign, by giving the players no motivation to do the thing it needs them to do, but then demanding they do it if they want to play the campaign. I'm fine with a campaign starting with a railroad, but it should be a railroad that makes character sense for most characters. The lack of agency in the opening scenes of a campaign isn't the problem. Forcing lots of inevitable arguments between the DM and anyone roleplaying worth a damn that end with "sorry, you have no agency and your character's personality isn't allowed to matter" is a huge problem.
> 
> At the beginning of the Rambo NES game it gives you the option to stay in prison rather than go on your mission. If you choose prison it just says "the game doesn't start until you say YES" to the mission. This is basically what our DM said when we played HotDQ.



Actually, I remembered my least favorite part of the adventure, and it is in the sequel, *Rise of Tiamat*. So, it's mid- to high-level in this section. Player characters have weathered many challenges to get here. Now they have to weld the disparate and squabbling factions of the Forgotten Realms into a unified force that can withstand Tiamat and the Cult of the Dragon. In fact, there's a chapter where the party has to go to Thay, to try to work out a compromise with the Red Wizards of Thay, the premiere evil organization on the continent, so that Tiamat can be overcome! What a great idea for a chapter! There's so much potential! And you get to depict a very alien culture, with a ton of interesting characters!

Except the module doesn't do any of that, it just tells the DM to play it by ear, or even to abstract everything to just the final negotiation.

What the _actual hell_? This would have been a great chapter, with interesting (hopefully) non-combat encounters and the possibility of interesting magics and ancient secrets -- those things have been hoarded in Thay since first edition! But no, we're just going to skim through to the next combat-oriented chapter...


----------



## Cadence

You seriously didn't know that was how most of the internet worked? Or you seriously thought we didn't know?  Or you just needed to say it out loud again in the hopes of hanging onto sanity in the midst of the internet doing it's thing?


----------



## J.Quondam

It is a series of tubes, right?


----------



## dragoner

Man, and a floppy in the trapper keeper like pocket of the phb.


----------



## overgeeked

How to tell everyone you haven’t bothered to read a single post in the thread without saying you haven’t bothered to read a single post in the thread.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

J.Quondam said:


> It is a series of tubes, right?



All the people dunking on Ted Stevens (which I don't think you were) over that need to come up with a better metaphor that isn't tubes or a highway. 

Tubes is not a terrible metaphor, honestly. I get that Stevens is 700 years old and opposes network neutrality, but the metaphor was sound.


----------



## prabe

Maybe I've just been in too many similar arguments recently, but I can't make myself care enough to post, sorrynotsorry.


----------



## Mad_Jack

It occurs to me that the downside of having a simpler game with less rules is that more of the conversation is directed toward discussing each one... Thus each discussion just gets older faster.
Back in 3.5 I used to _like_ rules discussions...


----------



## trappedslider

Mad_Jack said:


> Back in 3.5 I used to _like_ rules discussions...



My favorite book cam out of 3.5 cityscape


----------



## payn

Another poster talking about putting fliers up in a library and not getting any responses. Physical fliers??? The Library??? Thats exactly what you should expect. Nothing.


----------



## overgeeked

Mad_Jack said:


> It occurs to me that the downside of having a simpler game with less rules is that more of the conversation is directed toward discussing each one... Thus each discussion just gets older faster.
> Back in 3.5 I used to _like_ rules discussions...



The flip side is that you potentially talk about the rules less and actually playing more.


----------



## Cadence

A: I love making homemade pizza. I don't understand why people think it's so hard.

B: It took me 850 hours of work, how do you have the time.

A: 850 hours!?!?  It took me 35 minutes.

B: How on earth do you even plant all the tomatoes that quickly?  Do you automate milking the buffalo for the cheese?  How fast are you with a grindstone!?

A: !?!

B: Is what you do even pizza?  I bet you didn't even hand build your own brick oven!


----------



## overgeeked

Cadence said:


> A: I love making homemade pizza. I don't understand why people think it's so hard.
> 
> B: It took me 850 hours of work, how do you have the time.
> 
> A: 850 hours!?!?  It took me 35 minutes.
> 
> B: How on earth do you even plant all the tomatoes that quickly?  Do you automate milking the buffalo for the cheese?  How fast are you with a grindstone!?
> 
> A: !?!
> 
> B: Is what you do even pizza?  I bet you didn't hand build your own brick oven!



The difference between that silliness and RPGs is that homemade game content can take as little as a few seconds to think up and drop into a game.


----------



## Cadence

overgeeked said:


> The difference between that silliness and RPGs is that homemade game content can take as little as a few seconds to think up and drop into a game.



Yup!


----------



## Ryujin

Back when I was GMing Rifts I would occasionally just throw out the adventure hooks from one of the world books and wing it for a couple of sessions, using pre-gens. No one seemed to notice.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> Back when I was GMing Rifts I would occasionally just throw out the adventure hooks from one of the world books and wing it for a couple of sessions, using pre-gens. No one seemed to notice.



Listen, man, I can't pay attention to the game right now, because I can't get over _how awesome my character is_!!!1!


----------



## J.Quondam

overgeeked said:


> The flip side is that you potentially talk about the rules less and actually playing more.



You know it's possible to play the game during the game, and talk about rules at other times. A gamer can enjoy both rules and story -- or (gasp!) different sorts of rules and different sorts of stories. Or even no rules, or no story. Different people have different preferences at different times. Go figure. 
It's really not complicated, no rocket surgery required.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Yes, thank you for explaining the joke I posted to me. That is very helpful, and not at all painful and awkward. Don't listen to the haters.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> Yes, thank you for explaining the joke I posted to me. That is very helpful, and not at all painful and awkward. Don't listen to the haters.




Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog-

I did it once in eighth grade, and I'm never doing it again.


----------



## el-remmen

TFW someone makes the facile comment you knew someone was going to make but you promised yourself when posting the thread that you weren't going to engage.


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog-
> 
> I did it once in eighth grade, and I'm never doing it again.



—E.B. Snarf.


----------



## prabe

el-remmen said:


> TFW someone makes the facile comment you knew someone was going to make but you promised yourself when posting the thread that you weren't going to engage.



TFW when you might have been the one to make the facile comment, but you chose not to bother.


----------



## Scribe

Every time. You would think I would learn...


----------



## prabe

Scribe said:


> Every time. You would think I would learn...



CATCHPHRASE


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Scribe said:


> Every time. You would think I would learn...




If people learned from their mistakes, then I would never try to order a Cynar Spritz stateside.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> CATCHPHRASE



Great movie.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Great movie.



Funny, I've never seen it. The joke was there even in the movie's absence.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

In other news, I made lasagna last night for the first time, using a recipe from the excellent (seriously, you should buy this book ASAP) Food Lab. It was delicious, but now I see why so few people bother making good lasagna. It's a lot of simultaneous work.

I need a sous chef.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

prabe said:


> Funny, I've never seen it. The joke was there even in the movie's absence.



Check it out (it's on streaming). Far better than it has any right to be.


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Check it out (it's on streaming). Far better than it has any right to be.



Thanks for the rec. At some point, I'll possibly want to watch a movie--it's been years, though.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> In other news, I made lasagna last night for the first time, using a recipe from the excellent (seriously, you should buy this book ASAP) Food Lab. It was delicious, but now I see why so few people bother making good lasagna. It's a lot of simultaneous work.
> 
> I need a sous chef.



You should try making good ramen. Just the broth can take days to prepare.


----------



## payn

I'll have to settle for being the only guy that didnt like _Free Guy_.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> You should try making good ramen. Just the broth can take days to prepare.



I have avoided letting my kids know that ramen can be more than instant soup. I don't want to open that door.

If I'm going to put that labor in, it'll be for smoking my own barbecue. (Not possible in my rental, alas.)


----------



## trappedslider

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I need a sous chef.



Don't we all?


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Check it out (it's on streaming). Far better than it has any right to be.



Ryan Reynolds being his most upbeat self for two hours. What's not to like?


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> In other news, I made lasagna last night for the first time, using a recipe from the excellent (seriously, you should buy this book ASAP) Food Lab. It was delicious, but now I see why so few people bother making good lasagna. It's a lot of simultaneous work.
> 
> I need a sous chef.



I thought part of what Kenji was going for was that the recipes would work in a home kitchen. I guess simultaneous work might not be out of the question--there are a few things we make here where it's ... more practicable to make them, if we have more than one person working in the kitchen.


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I have avoided letting my kids know that ramen can be more than instant soup. I don't want to open that door.
> 
> If I'm going to put that labor in, it'll be for smoking my own barbecue. (Not possible in my rental, alas.)



Electric smokers are surprisingly easy to move and use. Im making beef dino ribs for the family on xmas in mine. If temps are too low, ill just bring it in the garage. Worst case it smells like smoked meat for a week.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Ryujin said:


> Ryan Reynolds being his most upbeat self for two hours. What's not to like?



He's got a few clunkers -- they mostly seem to be Netflix exclusives, interestingly -- but yeah, just hanging out with Ryan Reynolds is an almost-guaranteed good time.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I have avoided letting my kids know that ramen can be more than instant soup. I don't want to open that door.
> 
> If I'm going to put that labor in, it'll be for smoking my own barbecue. (Not possible in my rental, alas.)



Dale Talde has a cookbook with a few good recipes, including a one-hour ramen that’s decent and a big step up health-wise from instant noodles.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

prabe said:


> I thought part of what Kenji was going for was that the recipes would work in a home kitchen. I guess simultaneous work might not be out of the question--there are a few things we make here where it's ... more practicable to make them, if we have more than one person working in the kitchen.



Some of it was my mistake. I didn't have my red sauce prepared ahead of time, which I normally would -- since developing mine, I keep a jar of it in the fridge to use in different recipes, because I'm apparently turning into an Italian grandmother -- but last night, it meant cooking sauce, meat, constantly stirring the bechemel (whatever it's called in Italian, sorry), monitoring the noodles, etc., all at the same time.

If I had the meat and red sauce done beforehand, it would have been much less hectic.

The longer I own the Food Lab, the more I love it, though. During the pandemic, my kids and I developed our own stovetop mac and cheese recipe, because I would be damned if I was going to let them go out in the world thinking Kraft was the height of what mac and cheese it could be. Last night, I discovered a four-page spread of how different cheeses work in mac and cheese, which would have simplified our weeks of experimentation learning the same thing.

And, of course, his viral matrix on how different ingredients and amounts change chocolate chip cookies is going to inform some holiday baking this year, as we use that to create a "family" chocolate chip cookie recipe.

Such a good cookbook.


----------



## trappedslider

speaking of movies 'When Harry Met Sally,' 'Iron Man' added to film registry

EDIT: @Ryujin I think they included a home video of yours  "the 1898 “Mardi Gras Carnival,” a silent-era documentary with the earliest known footage of the carnival in New Orleans."


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> He's got a few clunkers -- they mostly seem to be Netflix exclusives, interestingly -- but yeah, just hanging out with Ryan Reynolds is an almost-guaranteed good time.



We need a Keanu/Reynolds buddy movie for the full Canadian experience. The only rumour like that I've heard is the Ghost Rider movie.









						RUMORED: Keanu Reeves and Ryan Reynolds May Team up for a Marvel Movie
					

Rumor has it that the MCU wants Keanu Reeves to play Ghost Rider in a movie with Ryan Reynolds’ Deadpool.




					www.thedad.com


----------



## Gradine

Introducing the food of the gods:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

I always find it fascinating how people find new ways to say, "Please, can you put me on your ignore list?"


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Ryujin said:


> We need a Keanu/Reynolds buddy movie for the full Canadian experience. The only rumour like that I've heard is the Ghost Rider movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RUMORED: Keanu Reeves and Ryan Reynolds May Team up for a Marvel Movie
> 
> 
> Rumor has it that the MCU wants Keanu Reeves to play Ghost Rider in a movie with Ryan Reynolds’ Deadpool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedad.com



That would be a very chill Ghost Rider movie. Not sure they have the right methamphetamine-level energy for the franchise.

Keanu as the Silver Surfer, though. And I'm sure there are other chill cosmic heroes Reynolds could be.


----------



## overgeeked

Gradine said:


> Introducing the food of the gods:



I think you mean the banh mi. The actual food of the gods.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> We need a Keanu/Reynolds buddy movie for the full Canadian experience. The only rumour like that I've heard is the Ghost Rider movie.




Woah.....


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

I consider most of my life before I had my first banh mi wasted. Holy mackerel, did a meal ever live up to the hype.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I consider most of my life before I had my first banh mi wasted. Holy mackerel, did a meal ever live up to the hype.



Now make one at home. Her cookbook is awesome, btw. Get yourself a julienne peeler. It’s worth it.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

I am actually holding off on diving into Asian cooking because I literally do not have any space to put a wok, and a terrible old electrical stove that would probably just lead to frustration trying to use one.

The _moment_ we have a better and bigger kitchen, though, I am going all-in.

Putting the cookbook on my Amazon wishlist.


----------



## Cadence

The middle eastern restaurant near us changed their hummus recipe.  What makes it taste "peanuty"?

(Because I'm already googling too many other things...)


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> The middle eastern restaurant near us changed their hummus recipe.  What makes it taste "peanuty"?
> 
> (Because I'm already googling too many other things...)




Tahini.

They upped the tahini.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> The middle eastern restaurant near us changed their hummus recipe.  What makes it taste "peanuty"?
> 
> (Because I'm already googling too many other things...)




FYI- my protip for Middle Eastern restaurants.

Try the baba ganoush (spelled differently depending on the transliteration).

Any place can make an interesting hummus. But if they can make a good baba ganoush, you know that they treat their dishes with care.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Tahini.
> 
> They upped the tahini.



Wait...when did Tahini start tasting peanutty?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Wait...when did Tahini start tasting peanutty?




It's not, but people will mistake it. If you hear someone (American) say the hummus tastes peanut-y, it's from the tahini. Because they usually aren't good at differentiating sesame and peanut flavors.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> FYI- my protip for Middle Eastern restaurants.
> 
> Try the baba ganoush (spelled differently depending on the transliteration).
> 
> Any place can make an interesting hummus. But if they can make a good baba ganoush, you know that they treat their dishes with care.



I really like their Damascus bread  (when I'm not getting a kabob or kufta burger), so hummus really being different was a surprise.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I really like their Damascus bread  (when I'm not getting a kabob or kufta burger), so hummus really being different was a surprise.




Well, IME the subtle ratios of tahini, lemon, chickpea, olive oil, and garlic can have a massive difference on the taste of the hummus ... and, of course, the actual ingredients (freshness, etc.) matter too! Even something as basic as tahini comes in a multitude of types. 

And that's before you get to adding the salt, pepper, and possible spices (some people like sumac or other variants). A "Middle Eastern" restaurant will serve a subtly different hummus depending on where they from in the Middle East- an Israeli, tahini-forward hummus will taste quite different than a Jordanian hummus that uses yogurt. 

Like many seemingly simple foods, the devil is in the details.


----------



## el-remmen

payn said:


> I'll have to settle for being the only guy that didnt like _Free Guy_.




I couldn't get beyond the 25 minute mark. You are not alone.


----------



## darjr

J.Quondam said:


> It is a series of tubes, right?



It’s a series of rubes.


----------



## el-remmen

Ryujin said:


> Ryan Reynolds being his most upbeat self for two hours. What's not to like?



Ryan Reynolds being his most upbeat self for two friggin' hours?  I mean, isn't that him all his movies?


----------



## Gradine

el-remmen said:


> Ryan Reynolds being his most upbeat self for two friggin' hours?  I mean, isn't that him all his movies?



Not to mention _Two Guys, A Girl, and a Pizza Place_


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Ryan Reynolds being his most upbeat self for two friggin' hours?  I mean, isn't that him all his movies?




Didn't you know? It's the Great Ryan Treaty of Hollywood.

All good roles get sent out to the Ryans (Reynolds and Gosling). 

Reynolds gets all the fun, upbeat roles.
Gosling gets all the serious-as-cancer roles.

Everyone wins!


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Well, IME the subtle ratios of tahini, lemon, chickpea, olive oil, and garlic can have a massive difference on the taste of the hummus ... and, of course, the actual ingredients (freshness, etc.) matter too! Even something as basic as tahini comes in a multitude of types.
> 
> And that's before you get to adding the salt, pepper, and possible spices (some people like sumac or other variants). A "Middle Eastern" restaurant will serve a subtly different hummus depending on where they from in the Middle East- an Israeli, tahini-forward hummus will taste quite different than a Jordanian hummus that uses yogurt.
> 
> Like many seemingly simple foods, the devil is in the details.




There has been a middle-eastern themed restaurant of some sort in this location for over 15 years now... but I think it might be on its third owner and who knows how many head cooks/chefs.

Thank you for the info on it!!

(In the meantime I spent my avoiding-work-by-googling-time finding out that the cookbook Suomen pitäjäruoat. Ahvenanmaa, Varsinais-Suomi, Satakunta is only at one library anywhere on Worldcat (in Finland) and that the shipping charge from the used book store I found it at is $38.  Doh!)


----------



## payn

el-remmen said:


> Ryan Reynolds being his most upbeat self for two friggin' hours?  I mean, isn't that him all his movies?



Most upbeat is one way to put it, grating as hell another. I find the only time its appropriate is _Deadpool_. Though, _Free Guy_ wasnt so grating, it just felt like _Ready Player One: Ryan Reynolds edition_.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> I really like their Damascus bread  (when I'm not getting a kabob or kufta burger), so hummus really being different was a surprise.



There's a wide variety in how various Mediterranean cultures prepare the foods many of them share. I've had a wide variety of different hummuses (that word feels wrong) across Northern Africa, for instance.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Gradine said:


> Not to mention _Two Guys, A Girl, and a Pizza Place_



That was the first time I saw him and it was clear he was going to be the breakout star.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> _Free Guy_ wasnt so grating, it just felt like _Ready Player One: Ryan Reynolds edition_.



I feel like Free Guy had a _lot_ more to say about gaming and online culture than Ready Player One (or especially Ready Player Two) did. Very similar thematic territory, though.


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> That was the first time I saw him and it was clear he was going to be the breakout star.


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I feel like Free Guy had a _lot_ more to say about gaming and online culture than Ready Player One (or especially Ready Player Two) did. Very similar thematic territory, though.



Perhaps, my next complaint is it felt like 10-15 years too late.


----------



## MarkB

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I feel like Free Guy had a _lot_ more to say about gaming and online culture than Ready Player One (or especially Ready Player Two) did. Very similar thematic territory, though.



Except for the part where almost all the players preferred killing NPCs to attacking each other. Nothing makes an online gamer's day quite like knowing they've ruined someone else's.


----------



## prabe

Yeah, there's a word in there that I can see at least two different legit readings of, and the people who went with one reading would have a completely different reading from the people who went with the other, and there'd be people who'd think neither reading was really worth paying attention to as a priority, and what you are setting up there is a three-way circular firing squad. I choose not to engage.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> Perhaps, my next complaint is it felt like 10-15 years too late.



It took a Baby Boomer exec's kids with his third wife playing GTAO and Roblox for them to finally understand the script.


----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> Ryan Reynolds being his most upbeat self for two friggin' hours?  I mean, isn't that him all his movies?



Upbeat, yes. _Most_ upbeat, no.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Yeah, there's a word in there that I can see at least two different legit readings of, and the people who went with one reading would have a completely different reading from the people who went with the other, and there'd be people who'd think neither reading was really worth paying attention to as a priority, and what you are setting up there is a three-way circular firing squad. I choose not to engage.




Every. Single. EnWorld Thread.






_Problem is, everyone thinks that they're the Man With No Name. You're not. You're Tuco.

....you're always Tuco. And so are the other two people._


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Every. Single. EnWorld Thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Problem is, everyone thinks that they're the Man With No Name. You're not. You're Tuco.
> 
> ....you're always Tuco. And so are the other two people._


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Snarf Zagyg

People that want things explained to them rarely want things .... actually explained to them.

_Can someone tell me why kids these days can't wear belts??!!??_

There are days when threads can seem to resemble something Andy Rooney would have opined on Sixty Minutes.


----------



## Cadence

OMG!  You didn't make the kiln for the bricks for your brick oven yourself!  Even if your customers have such unrefined palates that they can't taste the difference, how can you live with yourself if you serve one cooked in it?


----------



## Cadence

You don't understand! It doesn't matter if they start reading the menu from the left or from the right... whatever they do once they entered the restaurant they still end up with pizza!!  All those "combinations of toppings" are an illusion of choice -- it's still pizza!!! Whatever review they write about how choosing the right toppings mattered is just deluding themselves into thinking it's an actual review!!!!


----------



## el-remmen

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Reynolds gets all the fun, upbeat roles.
> Gosling gets all the serious-as-cancer roles.




Explains why I prefer Gosling. TBH I prefer movies that leave me feeling like I've been punched in the stomach for two-hours straight, but like in a good way.


----------



## el-remmen

"But if there weren't any people who liked that stuff, would anybody like that stuff?"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

el-remmen said:


> Explains why I prefer Gosling. TBH I prefer movies that leave me feeling like I've been punched in the stomach for two-hours straight, but like in a good way.




Brah. I can totally take getting hit in the stomach for two hours straight.







Don't even feel a thing. C'mon, brah, hit me. Hit me in my perfect abs, brah. C'mon, brah. Do you lift?

Do. You. Even. Lift? Brah?


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I am actually holding off on diving into Asian cooking because I literally do not have any space to put a wok, and a terrible old electrical stove that would probably just lead to frustration trying to use one.
> 
> The _moment_ we have a better and bigger kitchen, though, I am going all-in.
> 
> Putting the cookbook on my Amazon wishlist.



Yeah. I haven’t tried much Asian cooking. We had a wok but it was trash. You can pan-cook stuff just as easily. Not having to figure out how woks work differently and their hot spots, etc is also a big plus. 

For that banh mi you only need a few extra ingredients you probably don’t already have.


----------



## overgeeked

And here I thought we had moved beyond “I don’t like your face so you’re wrong.” Silly me.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg




----------



## Scribe




----------



## Ryujin

el-remmen said:


> "But if there weren't any people who liked that stuff, would anybody like that stuff?"



OK, that one legit made me dizzy.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Today's thought - are these two songs actually the same?



Spoiler: Song Number 1



(wait until 56 seconds in ...)






Spoiler: Song Number 2



wait until ... hey! 56 seconds in....)




I mean, no. But also, not no?


----------



## overgeeked

Weird how people who opine about a thing they don’t do, a game they don’t play, or a movement they don’t belong to seem to think they know more about the topic than the people who do the thing, play the game, and consider themselves part of that movement. Is that what it’s like for scientists to deal with science denialists?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

overgeeked said:


> Weird how people who opine about a thing they don’t do, a game they don’t play, or a movement they don’t belong to seem to think they know more about the topic than the people who do the thing, play the game, and consider themselves part of that movement. Is that what it’s like for scientists to deal with science denialists?




*Achilles*: Zeno? Zeno? Zeno? Zeno? ......ZENO???? ZENO!!!! ZENO!!!!!!!!

*Zeno*: _sigh _What. What. Do. You. Want.

*Achilles*: I just needed to tell you that you're really stupid for playing poker. Poker sucks. It's a mug's game. Only dummies play poker. And that makes you a dummy. 

*Zeno*: That? That's what you HAD to tell me? Okay, fine. But you don't play poker, Achilles? Why do you care? And how do you know it's a mug's game? I mean ... I'm a professional poker player! I make a decent living playing poker. You don't even play poker! 

*Achilles*: Whatever, man! I saw a youtube video once. Poker is stupid. Bad odds, bad time. And you're stupid for playing it. 

*Zeno*: Fine, whatever floats your boat Achilles. But you gamble- you play the slots. I don't play, personally, but you know that the odds on slots are ...

*Achilles*: HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT! YOU'V NEVER PLAYED THE SLOTS!!!! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SWEET SWEET ECSTASY OF THE GAME!!!! YOU CAN"T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND THE STRATEGY OF GOING FROM ONE MACHINE TO ANOTHER!!!!!! HOW DARE YOU? HOW DARE YOU, SIR?!?!

*Zeno*: ...._again. You did it again. I hate you like John Wick hates people who don't given to the ASPCA, Achilles. _


----------



## Mad_Jack

Just read a response on one of the sociable medias about something:

"Of all the things that never happened. This never happened the most."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Two questions-

1. Can a bit become reality? Say someone starts saying something like, "No one reads the DMG." Does sheer repetition of a bit cause it to manifest as an actuality?

2. If that isn't generally true, but it is true in some instances .... does that mean that some people are like, oh, The Sandman?

3. And building on (1) and (2), why do we still have bards?


----------



## darjr




----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Two questions-
> 
> 1. Can a bit become reality? Say someone starts saying something like, "No one reads the DMG." Does sheer repetition of a bit cause it to manifest as an actuality?
> 
> 2. If that isn't generally true, but it is true in some instances .... does that mean that some people are like, oh, The Sandman?
> 
> 3. And building on (1) and (2), why do we still have bards?




One of the people in my 13 yo's group just made a bard.  They did it because they think of bards the way you do... and want to play that to the hilt.

I was amazed that apparently they all knew that bards and pineapple on pizza were evil.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Two questions-
> 
> 1. Can a bit become reality? Say someone starts saying something like, "No one reads the DMG." Does sheer repetition of a bit cause it to manifest as an actuality?
> 
> 2. If that isn't generally true, but it is true in some instances .... does that mean that some people are like, oh, The Sandman?
> 
> 3. And building on (1) and (2), why do we still have bards?



Bards exist because you keep thinking about them, for good or ill.

... and...

If Quantum Physics has taught us anything, it's... not that.


----------



## payn

lol, what a self own.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Ryujin said:


> If Quantum Physics has taught us anything, it's... not that.




So what you’re saying is that it is a scientific fact that reality becomes what I know it to be!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> So what you’re saying is that it is a scientific fact that reality becomes what I know it to be!
> 
> View attachment 269676



Even the bits that you don't like.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Even the bits that you don't like.



*Especially* the bits you don't like.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> *Especially* the bits you don't like.



I mean, if you know that Bards are terrible then there have to be Bards, or who is going to be terrible?


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Two questions-
> 
> 1. Can a bit become reality? Say someone starts saying something like, "No one reads the DMG." Does sheer repetition of a bit cause it to manifest as an actuality?



That's how Poe's law and propaganda work, so, yes.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> 2. If that isn't generally true, but it is true in some instances .... does that mean that some people are like, oh, The Sandman?



Probably not.


Snarf Zagyg said:


> 3. And building on (1) and (2), why do we still have bards?



Because you keep hating on them. The only reason they're still in existence is because your hate manifests them into reality.


----------



## darjr

Well I never liked bits.

It’s just mushy corn


----------



## Cadence

No seriously, the modern taste in pizza has changed.  If you haven't been properly trained to mix and match at least eight types of heirloom tomatoes in your sauce, it just isn't going to cut it.


----------



## overgeeked

A: "It's easy to be a DM, you just have to improvise."

B: _improvises the rules_

A: "NO!!! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Can a bit become reality? Say someone starts saying something like, "No one reads the DMG." Does sheer repetition of a bit cause it to manifest as an actuality?



I don't like the new flavor of clickbait.  

Today I learned, just from skimming the first page of thread titles:  there is a DM shortage, nobody reads the _Dungeon Master's Guide_,  Wizards of the Coast needs Elon Musk,  there's something wrong with the Wizard class, and _Spelljammer: Adventures in Space_ is bad.

Lies!  Slander!  Why, I'd better click on that link and give them a piece of my mind!


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> Today I learned, just from skimming the first page of thread titles: there is a DM shortage,



True.


CleverNickName said:


> nobody reads the _Dungeon Master's Guide_,



So true it's been a meme for almost a decade now.


CleverNickName said:


> Wizards of the Coast needs Elon Musk,



No one needs Elon Musk.


CleverNickName said:


> there's something wrong with the Wizard class,



Yeah, it stands too tall.


CleverNickName said:


> and _Spelljammer: Adventures in Space_ is bad.



2E? No, it's awesome. 5E? Yeah, it's quite bad.


CleverNickName said:


> Lies! Slander! Why, I'd better click on that link and give them a piece of my mind!



How'd I do?


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> How'd I do?



Sounds like you clicked all the links, so...you either got an A or an F, depending on how spicy you like your internet discussions.


----------



## dragoner

Thread reductionism


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> I don't like the new flavor of clickbait.
> 
> Today I learned, just from skimming the first page of thread titles:  there is a DM shortage, nobody reads the _Dungeon Master's Guide_,  Wizards of the Coast needs Elon Musk,  there's something wrong with the Wizard class, and _Spelljammer: Adventures in Space_ is bad.
> 
> Lies!  Slander!  Why, I'd better click on that link and give them a piece of my mind!



It's almost like you can make anything up and title a thread with your new "fact" as the base assumption.


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> It's almost like you can make anything up and title a thread with your new "fact" as the base assumption.



I'm going to start a thread titled, "This Thread Is Pure Clickbait" and count the number of people who show up to argue with me about it.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> I'm going to start a thread titled, "This Thread Is Pure Clickbait" and count the number of people who show up to argue with me about it.



Ooh! You could host a "5e Survivor: 5e Clickbait Threads" thread.


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> And that's before you get to adding the salt, pepper, and possible spices (some people like sumac or other variants). A "Middle Eastern" restaurant will serve a subtly different hummus depending on where they from in the Middle East- an Israeli, tahini-forward hummus will taste quite different than a Jordanian hummus that uses yogurt.
> 
> Like many seemingly simple foods, the devil is in the details.




Yup. A Middle Eastern restaurant sounds as odd as Western European restaurant. "Today, we have scones, arancini and bratwurst in our paella. Very typical of our culture". The more removed one is from the original, the more blur there is in cooking. And the worse is that this blur is also accompanied with a "localization" of recipes, often to try to taste better to local palates but resulting in meh-ification of the food.

It can lead to... special result.

In Japan, I've seen a "French" restaurant that made maître d'hotel rib eye steak... with butter and wasabi. Or a pizza with paella topping (I am still to this day not seeing anything French in this dish, but...). Which I didn't try, but it looked like exactly what you'd expect. I was satisfied to know that the decades of unsatisfying japanese food I had had so far at home was vindicated.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> Ooh! You could host a "5e Survivor: 5e Clickbait Threads" thread.



Elon Musk needs an Elon Musk!


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Elon Musk needs an Elon Musk!



I question that assumption.


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Two questions-
> 
> 1. Can a bit become reality? Say someone starts saying something like, "No one reads the DMG." Does sheer repetition of a bit cause it to manifest as an actuality?
> 
> 2. If that isn't generally true, but it is true in some instances .... does that mean that some people are like, oh, The Sandman?
> 
> 3. And building on (1) and (2), why do we still have bards?




Using the common D&D trope that gods exist because they have followers, "no one reads the DMG", "martials are underpowered" and "no one liked 4th edition" have replaced the capitoline triad as head honchos of the divine world. Your single-minded despise of Cacofonix wannabeess has created a small god, "hatred of bards" that is, unfortunately and as his name augurs, is severely underpowered, like a Goblin of the comic by the same name. He is, truly, a Bard among the gods. His existence _depends_ on the presence of bards for you to hate, so he spends all his divine power to make them exist in whatever non-edition D&D produces in the future. You could have gained True Resurrection, Miracle and Gate, you have an unending series of bards.


----------



## J.Quondam

payn said:


> Elon Musk needs an Elon Musk!



Even if he doesn't need one, he certainly deserves one.


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> Using the common D&D trope that gods exist because they have followers, "no one reads the DMG", "martials are underpowered" and "no one liked 4th edition" have replaced the capitoline triad as head honchos of the divine world. Your single-minded despise of Cacofonix wannabeess has created a small god, "hatred of bards" that is, unfortunately and as his name augurs, is severely underpowered, like a Goblin of the comic by the same name. He is, truly, a Bard among the gods. His existence _depends_ on the presence of bards for you to hate, so he spends all his divine power to make them exist in whatever non-edition D&D produces in the future. You could have gained True Resurrection, Miracle and Gate, you have an unending series of bards.



The GIF that I want to use would likely get me at least a warning for language, so I'll go with this one instead.


----------



## trappedslider

Is it too much to ask for the eatery options that a metro like NYC has without everything else?

Also


----------



## Malmuria

trappedslider said:


> Is it too much to ask for the eatery options that a metro like NYC has without everything else?
> 
> Also




That warlock is way overestimating the value of an individual soul


----------



## CleverNickName

In my wife's campaign, we had a player who wanted his warlock to be _his own _patron.  Basically, he wanted to play a warlock without any of the warlock flavor...essentially a short-rest sorcerer that can cast Eldritch Blast.  They really tried to accommodate his request, but it wasn't working...he went with Fiend.


----------



## MarkB

CleverNickName said:


> In my wife's campaign, we had a player who wanted his warlock to be _his own _patron.  Basically, he wanted to play a warlock without any of the warlock flavor...essentially a short-rest sorcerer that can cast Eldritch Blast.  They really tried to accommodate his request, but it wasn't working...he went with Fiend.



Why wouldn't it work?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

CleverNickName said:


> In my wife's campaign, we had a player who wanted his warlock to be _his own _patron.  Basically, he wanted to play a warlock without any of the warlock flavor...essentially a short-rest sorcerer that can cast Eldritch Blast.  They really tried to accommodate his request, but it wasn't working...he went with Fiend.



It would be interesting to do a poll and see how many warlock players think the flavor is integral to the class. Based on _very_ passionate threads in the past, it seems like quite a few of them would rather it was just a generic magic-user with its unique mechanics.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> It would be interesting to do a poll and see how many warlock players think the flavor is integral to the class. Based on _very_ passionate threads in the past, it seems like quite a few of them would rather it was just a generic magic-user with its unique mechanics.



Most likely down to the idea of owing anyone a favor to get power and the thought of the referee bringing in their patron as an NPC.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> Most likely down to the idea of owing anyone a favor to get power and the thought of the referee bringing in their patron as an NPC.



You've read those threads, too. 

My biggest takeaway from that thread was that the era of the hostile DM is far from over at some tables. I cannot imagine either doing or sitting still for some of the things people said their DMs did with patrons. I'm slowly ramping up a warlock's as-yet-unseen patron in my campaign, and it's eventually going to be an active participant in things, but it's all with the player's input, support and -- most importantly -- trust.

Maybe the "DM shortage" is actually a shortage of non-jerk DMs.


----------



## CleverNickName

MarkB said:


> Why wouldn't it work?



I'm not exactly sure, I wasn't involved in the discussion (not my character, and I wasn't the DM.)  I'm sure it had something to do with the campaign setting and the lore...I don't think anyone thought it was _mechanically wrong_.  

Sometimes things just don't fit.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Maybe it's because of OneD&D, but it seems like threads about "how can I force people to play how I play?" are becoming more common lately.


----------



## Cadence

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Maybe it's because of OneD&D, but it seems like threads about "how can I force people to play how I play?" are becoming more common lately.




What I'd hope was "How can I have the rules still allow the type of game I like to play/run without too much surgery."  does seem to turn into either "How can I force everyone to play the type of game I like to play/run as a default."  or  "Dang your preference is out of touch."


----------



## Scribe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> It would be interesting to do a poll and see how many warlock players think the flavor is integral to the class. Based on _very_ passionate threads in the past, it seems like quite a few of them would rather it was just a generic magic-user with its unique mechanics.



That's absolutely the impression I get, but I've had some level of disconnect between how it's described, how it's often played, and how I wish it operated in game for a long time.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Cadence said:


> What I'd hope was "How can I have the rules still allow the type of game I like to play/run without too much surgery."  does seem to turn into either "How can I force everyone to play the type of game I like to play/run as a default."  or  "Dang your preference is out of touch."



Yeah, if they were "hey, can WotC support my playstyle a bit more", that would be fine. But I have seen a lot of posts that seem to imply "this is the way D&D should be played, and WotC are wrong to not support it".


----------



## trappedslider

The one class i had an interest in playing during the 3 to 4th edition time frame other than a Rogue was a Chronomancer. I'm not sure how possible it was then and I'm not sure if it's possible now.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

trappedslider said:


>



That's just when the voice actor(s) that read the books yell every word in the book.


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> The one class i had an interest in playing during the 3 to 4th edition time frame other than a Rogue was a Chronomancer. I'm not sure how possible it was then and I'm not sure if it's possible now.



I think there's a wizard subclass in _Explorer's Guide to Wildemount _that could be a good starting point.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

trappedslider said:


> The one class i had an interest in playing during the 3 to 4th edition time frame other than a Rogue was a Chronomancer. I'm not sure how possible it was then and I'm not sure if it's possible now.



There's a Time Magic wizard subclass, the Chronurgist, (and some time-magic spells) in Explorer's Guide to Wildemount.

Edit: Ninja'd by @CleverNickName


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> I think there's a wizard subclass in _Explorer's Guide to Wildemount _that could be a good starting point.






Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> There's a Time Magic wizard subclass, the Chronurgist, (and some time-magic spells) in Explorer's Guide to Wildemount.
> 
> Edit: Ninja'd by @CleverNickName



cool, thanks for the info.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> What I'd hope was "How can I have the rules still allow the type of game I like to play/run without too much surgery."  does seem to turn into either "How can I force everyone to play the type of game I like to play/run as a default."  or  "Dang your preference is out of touch."



It does seem qualitatively different than when the same discussions were happening during 4E: "the current system doesn't support that, sorry" vs. "you shouldn't want the thing you want."


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Re: The Chronomancer: A number of folks have attempted to adapt the 2E version on the DMs Guild. No idea how well they work, given that the 2E version didn't necessarily work well to begin with.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> You've read those threads, too.



No, just had a few hundred 5E players none of whom wanted anything remotely like a challenge or connection to or debt owed to a powerful NPC. They want the power without the drawbacks. 


Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Maybe the "DM shortage" is actually a shortage of non-jerk DMs.



If you mean referees who want their game to be more challenging than a game of solitaire, probably.


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> The one class i had an interest in playing during the 3 to 4th edition time frame other than a Rogue was a Chronomancer. I'm not sure how possible it was then and I'm not sure if it's possible now.



To be fair, for a proper chronomancer it shouldn't matter whether it's then or now. Or next week, for that matter.


----------



## Cadence

In case one wanted to stop being undercover, this could go for the profile pic...


----------



## Mad_Jack

CleverNickName said:


> In my wife's campaign, we had a player who wanted his warlock to be _his own _patron.  Basically, he wanted to play a warlock without any of the warlock flavor...essentially a short-rest sorcerer that can cast Eldritch Blast.  They really tried to accommodate his request, but it wasn't working...he went with Fiend.




I have a warlock who ate his patron...
Back in the old days I ran a cleric who was his own god as well...

Personally, though, I'm kind of a fan of playing up the patron's influence on the warlock when I play one - for the most part, warlocks make pacts with beings whose inclinations and goals align with theirs, so there's little reason to protest against having your patron give you something to do in game when it's something you'd be inclined to do anyway...


----------



## overgeeked

Mad_Jack said:


> Personally, though, I'm kind of a fan of playing up the patron's influence on the warlock when I play one - for the most part, warlocks make pacts with beings whose inclinations and goals align with theirs, so there's little reason to protest against having your patron give you something to do in game when it's something you'd be inclined to do anyway...



Right? You'd think all these people who're playing D&D for the story would be falling all over themselves for all those juicy hooks.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> Right? You'd think all these people who're playing D&D for the story would be falling all over themselves for all those juicy hooks.



I'm not sure those are the people who are objecting to an active (or even existent) patron, though.

(I'm all favor of an activist patron, personally; if I ever play a warlock, it'll be a wannabe bard who sold his soul at the crossroads.)


----------



## Hussar

Do DM's actually play the patron?  Really?  I've never seen that.  I certainly don't.  That's someone's character.  Unless the player approached me first about playing their patron, I wouldn't even consider doing it.  Forty years and I've never seen a DM bother playing out a cleric's deity but, for some reason people have to get all up in the warlock player's grill?


----------



## AnotherGuy

Hussar said:


> Do DM's actually play the patron?  Really?  I've never seen that.  I certainly don't.  That's someone's character.  Unless the player approached me first about playing their patron, I wouldn't even consider doing it.  Forty years and I've never seen a DM bother playing out a cleric's deity but, for some reason people have to get all up in the warlock player's grill?



When priests to the divination spells who plays the being on the Outer Plane?
At our table patrons/deities are NPCs and are played by the DM. Players have some creative input, the DM can confer with the player, but the idea is not as alien as you make it out to be.

EDIT: I imagine some DMs have a strong touch, others very lightly.


----------



## MarkB

Hussar said:


> Do DM's actually play the patron?  Really?  I've never seen that.  I certainly don't.  That's someone's character.  Unless the player approached me first about playing their patron, I wouldn't even consider doing it.  Forty years and I've never seen a DM bother playing out a cleric's deity but, for some reason people have to get all up in the warlock player's grill?






AnotherGuy said:


> When priests to the divination spells who plays the being on the Outer Plane?
> At our table patrons/deities are NPCs and are played by the DM. Players have some creative input, the DM can confer with the player, but the idea is not as alien as you make it out to be.
> 
> EDIT: I imagine some DMs have a strong touch, others very lightly.



I'd go somewhere in between. I'd allow the player to define who their patron is, what they want from the warlock, and how much the player is comfortable with having the patron show up in-game (right down to "not at all") and then I'd play the patron accordingly.


----------



## AnotherGuy

MarkB said:


> I'd go somewhere in between. I'd allow the player to define who their patron is, what they want from the warlock, and how much the player is comfortable with having the patron show up in-game (right down to "not at all") and then I'd play the patron accordingly.



That is exactly what I did.
My players prefer to be surprised so they leave much of it to me after the initial set-up. I'm currently doing the same for an origin story of an elf who found himself without memory after he was unpetrified by an orc mage who kept him as a slave for some time before he was able to escape the horde.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I play alot of DCC so to me the implementation of patrons in 5E is very meh. 

In the last DCC game I played my wizard's patron was Jan-Michael Vincent from Airwolf.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I play alot of DCC so to me the implementation of patrons in 5E is very meh.
> 
> In the last DCC game I played my wizard's patron was Jan-Michael Vincent from Airwolf.



With this kind of artwork, how can you not just dive in???


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> With this kind of artwork, how can you not just dive in???



Funny you should mention it, the top left is by Doug Kovacs. He was at my wedding and he's drawn a picture of all my cats including one as a mech pilot.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> With this kind of artwork, how can you not just dive in???



Trust me, one can simultaneously see the appeal, and get the sense the game is distinctly someone else's game.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> Trust me, one can simultaneously see the appeal, and get the sense the game is distinctly someone else's game.



Fair enough. I will join a funnel anytime. Or even a module. Though, I will admit any GM asking if I want to play in a level 1-20 DCC campaign isnt likely to recruit me.


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Fair enough. I will join a funnel anytime. Or even a module. Though, I will admit any GM asking if I want to play in a level 1-20 DCC campaign isnt likely to recruit me.



Yeah as a long term campaign game it doesn't quite work. There is just too much stuff that is too casually world changing.


----------



## prabe

So, most people who use a cookbook don't read it cover-to-cover. They skim it looking for the recipe they want.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> So, most people who use a cookbook don't read it cover-to-cover. They skim it looking for the recipe they want.



Dont they expect detailed chapters on how to cook? Chapter on whisking, and operating an oven, and blending, and chopping, etc...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> So, most people who use a cookbook don't read it cover-to-cover. They skim it looking for the recipe they want.









I know just the recipe.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> So, most people who use a cookbook don't read it cover-to-cover. They skim it looking for the recipe they want.




I will note that the Woman's Day Encyclopedia of Cookery set and the America's Test Kitchen cookbooks as some that have a lot of useful other stuff that's fun to look up too, and they contain (maybe not chapters) but things about...



payn said:


> Dont they expect detailed chapters on how to cook? Chapter on whisking, and operating an oven, and blending, and chopping, etc...




The former also has history and the later what kind of kitchen gadgets are useful or not.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I like to introduce my DMing style to new players by waiting until there's a rules question. I answer off the cuff, and for the first question answer it wrong. Someone always (*always*) corrects me, at which point I hold up the *Player's Handbook* and say, "I haven't read this thing. Why are you reading it? Let's play to find out what happens!"


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Dont they expect detailed chapters on how to cook? Chapter on whisking, and operating an oven, and blending, and chopping, etc...



As Cadence said, there are cookbooks that have extensive chapters on techniques and methods. I have (or have at least seen) one all about knife techniques. So ... some cookbooks can serve as the sort of reference book you seem to be ... mocking (though I presume gently).


----------



## CleverNickName

"Look, I'm really committed to this idea of nobody reading the _Dungeon Master's Guide,_ okay?  I've prepared dozens of farfetched scenarios and exaggerated reactions, and I'm not afraid to use them.  Just let me live my fantasy!"


----------



## RealAlHazred

Look for my new thread coming soon to a forum near you, "[WIR] Mastering the Art of French Cooking (1961), by Julia Child"!


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> As Cadence said, there are cookbooks that have extensive chapters on techniques and methods. I have (or have at least seen) one all about knife techniques. So ... some cookbooks can serve as the sort of reference book you seem to be ... mocking (though I presume gently).




I am sad that my favorite ice cream recipe book did not say in big letters "And if you walk away, tell the newbie that the salt goes in the outside with the ice, and not in the cannister with the ingredients!".


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> I am sad that my favorite ice cream recipe book did not say in big letters "And if you walk away, tell the newbie that the salt goes in the outside with the ice, and not in the cannister with the ingredients!".



What about the dry ice? Surely _that _goes in the cannister, right?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I am sad that my favorite ice cream recipe book did not say in big letters "And if you walk away, tell the newbie that the salt goes in the outside with the ice, and not in the cannister with the ingredients!".



This is why my wife and I have, for as long as we've been married, had an electric ice cream maker. No salt, no dry ice.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> As Cadence said, there are cookbooks that have extensive chapters on techniques and methods. I have (or have at least seen) one all about knife techniques. So ... some cookbooks can serve as the sort of reference book you seem to be ... mocking (though I presume gently).



Indeed, I was making a joke about the recent notion that adventure modules suck because they dont teach people how to GM. Although, many of them do go into running mechanical techniques, but are seen as usless because they are not a 101 crash course. Im waiting paitently for "Monster Manual sucks because it doesnt teach how to GM" any moment now.


----------



## Cadence

RealAlHazred said:


> What about the dry ice? Surely _that _goes in the cannister, right?




Oooh.  Now I'm wondering what dry ice would do to the wood parts.  I'm guessing starting with it on the outside would freeze everything up pretty quickly (and not in a good way).




<- the promotional picture of the newest version of the one we've had since the early 90s.


----------



## Cadence

"I mean, my first pizza cook book started off with the various kinds of soils you need to grow the appropriate wheat.  But that wasn't hard, it just took more time.   Now its like they want the chefs to make a pizza without ever having eaten a bunch of slices before."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

*Achilles*: Do you know what was awesome, Zeno?

*Zeno*: _sigh _You're going to say New Coke, aren't you......

*Achilles*: You're wrong, Zeno. NEW COKE. That was what was awesome. For once, Coca Cola came out with a new beverage. And it was _better_! And I loved it! And then everyone complained about it. And it "split the market." Blah blah blah. And now we don't have new coke anymore, just stupid old coke. Because old people complained about awesomeness. Just showing up, all the time, complaining about how awesome New Coke was until they got rid of the best thing ever and went back to tired ol' Coke.

*Zeno*: Okay. Cool. But ... Coke became more popular after that? It was the correct decision, right?

*Achilles*: Don't be stupid, Zeno! That's just, um, something Latin for ... uh, the people suck, or something. Look- New Coke was better, and the only reason it went away is because all those people unfairly maligned it. Heck, most of them didn't even TASTE it. Instead they just whined about it.

*Zeno*: Huh. Okay. I agree, that's terrible. But haven't you just spent years since then doing the exact same thing? Whining and complaining about regular coke? Trying to get New Coke back? Aren't you the same thing you are complaining about?

*Achilles*: What? Of course not! New Coke is NEW! The only way we can return Coke to glory is to go BACK ... to the FUTURE! That's right, I'm using the .... Power of Love, Zeno. 

*Zeno*: _If I pay Hector enough, can he get the other ankle? _


----------



## Cadence

I swear that is not a fake account by me designed to just put in all the snark I'm thinking in the actual threads instead of here!!


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Indeed, I was making a joke about the recent notion that adventure modules suck because they dont teach people how to GM. Although, many of them do go into running mechanical techniques, but are seen as usless because they are not a 101 crash course. Im waiting paitently for "Monster Manual sucks because it doesnt teach how to GM" any moment now.



I'm not really interested, but I've also only seen that sort of complaint about the adventures in the Starter and Beginner Sets. Have people been complaining thus about other adventures?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Hussar said:


> Do DM's actually play the patron?  Really?  I've never seen that.  I certainly don't.  That's someone's character.  Unless the player approached me first about playing their patron, I wouldn't even consider doing it.  Forty years and I've never seen a DM bother playing out a cleric's deity but, for some reason people have to get all up in the warlock player's grill?



Oh, man, I have some stories to tell you about deities in my games. There's "funny coincidences," things that could be omens, portentous dreams, etc.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Any ENWorld that goes over five pages automatically needs to start showing ads for therapy to posters.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> I'm not really interested, but I've also only seen that sort of complaint about the adventures in the Starter and Beginner Sets. Have people been complaining thus about other adventures?



Yes they have about adventure paths and reprints. Of course the starter adventures make sense for this criticism.


----------



## payn

Thats a first. Somebody posted a clickbait video that doesn't support their position as proof that other opinions exist...


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Yes they have about adventure paths and reprints. Of course the starter adventures make sense for this criticism.



Huh. I don't much like published adventures, especially adventure paths, but I wouldn't expect them to teach GMing if they weren't advertised as starting adventures.


----------



## RealAlHazred

prabe said:


> Huh. I don't much like published adventures, especially adventure paths, but I wouldn't expect them to teach GMing if they weren't advertised as starting adventures.



I thought *Out of the Abyss* and *Tomb of Annihilation* were pretty good as far as teaching a bit about GMing. OotA starts off with the worst railroad, but the rest of it is pretty open and it's really easy to turn it into a hexcrawl, and it has a little advice about running Underdark campaigns. ToA is much more of a deliberate hexcrawl, and has some good advice near the beginning, but then the rest is a chaotic mess -- some interesting locational encounters, some dull, little interaction between them except with the actual Tomb itself; I would have like a little more of an "ecology," with sites having more interaction with each other, rather than just the final boss. But I still rate it very highly, and it's easy to add your own stuff.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> I am sad that my favorite ice cream recipe book did not say in big letters "And if you walk away, tell the newbie that the salt goes in the outside with the ice, and not in the cannister with the ingredients!".



I made that mistake one summer when I was about 10 years old. 
I still haven't lived that one down.


----------



## Cadence

J.Quondam said:


> I made that mistake one summer when I was about 10 years old.
> I still haven't lived that one down.



This was a PhD student...


----------



## Cadence

"There are many styles of pizza that can be found in the midwest: floppy-grease, burnt-rectangle, soup-in-a-crust, snooty-topping-mish-mash, and tavern style are five major ones.  We non-judgementally discuss them below."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> "There are many styles of pizza that can be found in the midwest: floppy-grease, burnt-rectangle, soup-in-a-crust, snooty-topping-mish-mash, and tavern style are five major ones.  We non-judgementally discuss them below."




_See, I've acknowledged that what you like is bad. Why can't you be reasonable and acknowledge it too?_


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _See, I've acknowledged that what you like is bad. Why can't you be reasonable and acknowledge it too?_



That sounds like a _scintillating_ conversation I'm missing.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> That sounds like a _scintillating_ conversation I'm missing.



Oh, haven't been on ENPizza yet today?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

I'm a little nervous about whatever WotC is doing to Lost Mines. I'm hoping it's largely kept intact and just expanded on in the Phandelver Campaign book (which I also hopes gets a better name).


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Oh, haven't been on ENPizza yet today?



I've been trying to stay out of the conversations where everyone is wrong, yes.


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I'm a little nervous about whatever WotC is doing to Lost Mines. I'm hoping it's largely kept intact and just expanded on in the Phandelver Campaign book (which I also hopes gets a better name).



"Mines of Phandelver the Lost"


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

prabe said:


> "Mines of Phandelver the Lost"



Still a better name!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I've been trying to stay out of the conversations where everyone is wrong, yes.




This time, it will be different!


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> This time, it will be different!
> 
> View attachment 269743


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> .....




Brah! You need to put that in a spoilers tag.

There might be a Bears fan who stumbles on this page ...


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Brah! You need to put that in a spoilers tag.
> 
> There might be a Bears fan who stumbles on this page ...



I haven't watched an American football game in more than ten years. Do the Bears still suck?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> I haven't watched an American football game in more than ten years. Do the Bears still suck?




The answer is always yes. Yes, the Bears suck.

Amazingly, the one year since 1986 that they went to the Super Bowl, quarterbacked by Sexy Rexy? Yes, they still sucked then, too.


----------



## MarkB

J.Quondam said:


> I made that mistake one summer when I was about 10 years old.
> I still haven't lived that one down.



I was about the same age when I sprinkled salt on my cereal instead of sugar, and subsequently poured out two bottles of perfectly good milk because I thought they were the reason it tasted off.


----------



## payn

Boys, boys, put way the Epeens please...


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Boys, boys, put way the Epeens please...




The number of threads that might apply to today...


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> Boys, boys, put way the Epeens please...



There are people who have a *very* hard time not quote-responding, especially when quoted. Some of those people *strongly* disagree with--or maybe actively dislike--each other.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> There are people who have a *very* hard time not quote-responding, especially when quoted. Some of those people *strongly* disagree with--or maybe actively dislike--each other.




The key is to not discriminate.

Hate everyone equally.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Hate everyone equally.







H.A.T.E. (a subsidiary of the Beyond Corporation®)


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The key is to not discriminate.
> 
> Hate everyone equally.



Sorta like always telling the truth, so you never have to remember anything?


----------



## eyeheartawk

I wouldn't know what to do with myself if the Bears were _good_. 

Like, what would I talk to strangers about? The weather? No, Bears suckage is the ticket. 

Also, on a related note, I know several people who have first hand hilarious stories of encountering a skunk-drunk Mike Ditka in real life. I want that man to live forever.


----------



## Cadence

eyeheartawk said:


> I wouldn't know what to do with myself if the Bears were _good_.
> 
> Like, what would I talk to strangers about? The weather? No, Bears suckage is the ticket.
> 
> Also, on a related note, I know several people who have first hand hilarious stories of encountering a skunk-drunk Mike Ditka in real life. I want that man to live forever.




Being from northern Illinois, the one saving grace of the Bears is that Packer fans don't like them.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> H.A.T.E. (a subsidiary of the Beyond Corporation®)


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> View attachment 269752


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> Boys, boys, put way the Epeens please...



I misread this as epipens. Please put them away, boys; they're expensive.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


>








But seriously. I now wish all the Nextwave stuff was owned by DC, because then I would know with 100% certainty what movie they should make next.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> View attachment 269752



Ma'am, I'm not sure that's technically a letter.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Cadence said:


> Being from northern Illinois, the one saving grace of the Bears is that Packer fans don't like them.



Driving up to Antioch and watching a Bears Packers game at The Brat Stop is on my bucket list. 

I also have lots of family in Wisconsin so you and I also share that opinion.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> But seriously. I now wish all the Nextwave stuff was owned by DC, because then I would know with 100% certainty what movie they should make next.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Cadence

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Ma'am, I'm not sure that's technically a letter.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> View attachment 269756


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> ....


----------



## Mannahnin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> View attachment 269764



"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." 
- Matt Groening.


----------



## Cadence

Mannahnin said:


> "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
> - Matt Groening.




"Indeed indeed, I cannot tell,
Though I ponder on it well,
Which were easier to state,
All my love or all my hate.
Surely, surely, thou wilt trust me
When I say thou dost disgust me.
O, I hate thee with a hate
That would fain annihilate;
Yet sometimes against my will,
My dear friend, I love thee still.
It were treason to our love,
And a sin to God above,
One iota to abate
Of a pure impartial hate."

-Thoreau


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> ...




That poem reminds me .... there just isn't enough faining going on nowadays.

Back in the day, I would fain to do this, y'all would fain to do that, maybe we might fain to get up to some real trouble ... heck, we might even fain to partake ourselves in some sorta hootenanny.

Now? Nary a fain to be found. Alas.


----------



## Cadence

On another topic...

"As if millions of scientist and science fiction writer and fan voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."


----------



## Cadence

I wonder if the hardest thing about being a moderator is not posting the Billy Madison game show clip every time it's appropriate.

Edit:  I also almost wonder if a non-mod could get away with escaping harsh modding for posting it if the thing it was a reply to was really, really, insipid.


----------



## payn

The weather here the last few days have been a total suck fest. It gets warm enough during the day to rain, cools enough at night to be snow/ice. Creates this hazard folks call "heart attack" snow. They call it that because the water snow mixture is so much heavier that folks often drop dead shoveling it.

The last few days my co-workers have been complaining about getting up and dealing with the heart attack snow. The snowblower gets caked up and cant throw it so you end up having to shovel it anyways. I told them I havent done sh@# the last few days. I just log on, do my work, and by end of day its melted on its own. Some live by the adage "early bird gets the worm" but I've always been a "second mouse gets the cheese" kind of guy.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> View attachment 269758
> 
> View attachment 269759



Puts me in mind of Canada's greatest aluminum superhero.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> The weather here the last few days have been a total suck fest. It gets warm enough during the day to rain, cools enough at night to be snow/ice. Creates this hazard folks call "heart attack" snow. They call it that because the water snow mixture is so much heavier that folks often drop dead shoveling it.
> 
> The last few days my co-workers have been complaining about getting up and dealing with the heart attack snow. The snowblower gets caked up and cant throw it so you end up having to shovel it anyways. I told them I havent done sh@# the last few days. I just log on, do my work, and by end of day its melted on its own. Some live by the adage "early bird gets the worm" but I've always been a "second mouse gets the cheese" kind of guy.



Have these people never heard of rock salt?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I wonder if the hardest thing about being a moderator is not posting the Billy Madison game show clip every time it's appropriate.
> 
> Edit:  I also almost wonder if a non-mod could get away with escaping harsh modding for posting it if the thing it was a reply to was really, really, insipid.




On the other hand, I feel like this is the go-to reply to moderation....


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> Have these people never heard of rock salt?



washed away daily in the rain storms. Its been a mess this week.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> View attachment 269752



Now I want to see a sequel to *Werewolf By Night,* starring Elsa Bloodstone taking on "Captain America ordered from Wish".


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> washed away daily in the rain storms. Its been a mess this week.



That's why you buy it by the 30 pound bag.


----------



## darjr

Ryujin said:


> That's why you buy it by the 30 pound bag.



My 30 pounds came in a 10 pound bucket


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Two days ago I legally changed my name to Cam. 

Cam Likely. 

And now no one will return my calls….


----------



## Hussar

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Two days ago I legally changed my name to Cam.
> 
> Cam Likely.
> 
> And now no one will return my calls….



Heh, reminds me of a true story.  A friend of mine called the house some years ago after I had just gotten married.  My friend, who's family name is Stocker, got my wife, whose English at the time was... not as good as it is now, and left a message.

My wife:  Umm, you have a stalker?  Why did your stalker tell me that he was a stalker when he called?  That's a really strange stalker.

Dunno if anyone else thinks that's funny but it makes me giggle every time.


----------



## Cadence

Why does this keep coming up when it "doesn't need to"?


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Why does this keep coming up when it "doesn't need to"?
> 
> View attachment 269780



BECAUSE COMPROMISE IS FOR THE WEAK AND FOR THE EVIL


----------



## Asisreo

Cadence said:


> Why does this keep coming up when it "doesn't need to"?
> 
> View attachment 269780



Because if you compromise, you don't get _exactly_ what you want, which might as well be not getting anything. And, dear god, we cannot tolerate a world where my random desires and whims are unmet.


----------



## darjr

Dang! Reddit is full of angry people.

Redditer: They stole the entirety of the Rock of Bral from TSR products!
Me: No they didn't, they own it, they bought it lock stock and barrel.
Redditer: That's still disputed.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> Why does this keep coming up when it "doesn't need to"?
> 
> View attachment 269780



Moore has repeatedly lamented about how many Watchmen fans did not realize that Rorschach was not a hero worthy of emulation. (To be fair, Moore laments about Watchmen any time you put a microphone near him.)


----------



## Cadence

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Moore has repeatedly lamented about how many Watchmen fans did not realize that Rorschach was not a hero worthy of emulation. (To be fair, Moore laments about Watchmen any time you put a microphone near him.)




Not the hero, but seemingly the persona most of us take on when one of our pet peeves is mentioned...  (and finger breaking would stop them from typing ..).


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> Not the hero, but seemingly the persona most of us take on when one of our pet peeves is mentioned...



I have spent decades trying to stop myself from doing that, and there's more work to be done.


----------



## trappedslider

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Moore has repeatedly lamented about how many Watchmen fans did not realize that Rorschach was not a hero worthy of emulation. (To be fair, Moore laments about Watchmen any time you put a microphone near him.)



He laments about most of modern culture.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Cadence said:


> Not the hero, but seemingly the persona most of us take on when one of our pet peeves is mentioned...  (and finger breaking would stop them from typing ..).




"And all the posters and Redditers will look up and shout 'AGREE WITH US!'... and I'll look down and type 'No'."

​


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> He laments about most of modern culture.



Oh my.

Nothing is as funny as a guy who would probably be dead without modern medicine rant into his shiny phone camera live on the internet while flying over the Arctic Circle to participate in a globally televised event of artificially enhanced, by designer drugs no less, men and women prance around on stage covered in fake tan, scream and yell about how we MUST reject modernity.

Tell it to the Cromags.

Edit: note my comment was about someone else "rejecting modernity"


----------



## Benjamin Olson

darjr said:


> Dang! Reddit is full of angry people.
> 
> Redditer: They stole the entirety of the Rock of Bral from TSR products!
> Me: No they didn't, they own it, they bought it lock stock and barrel.
> Redditer: That's still disputed.



"That's still disputed" isn't much of a comeback on a world that some people dispute is round. There is literally no fact that isn't "disputed" by someone.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Benjamin Olson said:


> There is literally no fact that isn't "disputed" by someone.




 Yes there is.


----------



## darjr

Dangit! I forgot to add “and critics” to that list.

Daaaaang!!!


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Happy Holidays, Internet! I'm out for now.


----------



## billd91

There are a few posters around here that I wonder about. It's like they've never had a positive experience with their players, their DMs, their games.


----------



## prabe

billd91 said:


> There are a few posters around here that I wonder about. It's like they've never had a positive experience with their players, their DMs, their games.



Or--even worse--they had one, once, and they've never been able to make it happen again.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> There are a few posters around here that I wonder about. It's like they've never had a positive experience with their players, their DMs, their games.



The negative ones tend to stand out more in memory. Sort of like how maybe 1/1000 people who have a positive experience with a business might comment on it, but maybe 1/10 who have a negative experience will.


----------



## trappedslider

darjr said:


> Oh my.
> 
> Nothing is as funny as a guy who would probably be dead without modern medicine rant into his shiny phone camera live on the internet while flying over the Arctic Circle to participate in a globally televised event of artificially enhanced, by designer drugs no less, men and women prance around on stage covered in fake tan, scream and yell about how we MUST reject modernity.
> 
> Tell it to the Cromags.


----------



## eyeheartawk

darjr said:


> Tell it to the Cromags.



Okay. 


Gotta be honest though, I don't think they'd care.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Benjamin Olson said:


> "That's still disputed" isn't much of a comeback on a world that some people dispute is round. There is literally no fact that isn't "disputed" by someone.



"You Globers have yet to provide even a shred of proof that the Earth is round!"
"What about when ships go far out and dip below the horizon?"
"Water mountains!"
"What about satellites taking photos?"
"You seriously believe we've been to _space_?!?"
"Look, I don't know what else to tell you... You know, there's a lunar eclipse later! We'll both watch it and we'll see what you have to say then!"
Later:


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
Santa Klaus is coming to town


----------



## overgeeked

Oh, just what we need. More TV series and/or films that are fascist propaganda.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> Oh, just what we need. More TV series and/or films that are fascist propaganda.



Look, I can't believe the insane reboot of Magnum, P.I. is coming back for another season, either, but that seems a little harsh.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Oh, just what we need. More TV series and/or films that are fascist propaganda.



You never know. He might go the "Starship Troopers" route.


----------



## trappedslider

how many threads on the same topic do we need? so far 3.....


----------



## Gradine

Isn't it pretty explicitly anti-fascist? Or are we talking about something else


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Gradine said:


> Isn't it pretty explicitly anti-fascist? Or are we talking about something else



I think, like Watchmen, there's a large part of the audience that _definitely_ missed the point.


----------



## trappedslider

I found a new to kill your D&D group without playing actual D&D


----------



## trappedslider

darjr said:


> Oh my.
> 
> Nothing is as funny as a guy who would probably be dead without modern medicine rant into his shiny phone camera live on the internet while flying over the Arctic Circle to participate in a globally televised event of artificially enhanced, by designer drugs no less, men and women prance around on stage covered in fake tan, scream and yell about how we MUST reject modernity.
> 
> Tell it to the Cromags.



I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to get at here because I'm talking about the following quote:



> _I got quite a bit of criticism for that. I know that people were saying after reading the third book, that it was my equivalent of saying,"It were old fields around here once" which it wasn't, that wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying was that I don't think it was unfair to choose *[The Threepenny Opera]* as representing a big important cultural event of 1910. I don't think it was unfair choosing Donald Cammell's Performance as representing a big important cultural event in 1969 and I don't think it was unfair choosing J. K. Rowling's *Harry Potter* as representing a big cultural event in the early 21st Century. *I would say that if you were to plot those things along the graph — the line isn't going up. I think that it's a fair comment that our approach to culture — in the mainstream — has degenerated *... I wasn't saying that all culture in the late 21st Century was rubbish or I wasn't saying that culture was doomed*. I was saying that mainstream culture was becoming repetitive, was not having original ideas, would no longer be capable of coming up with a Performance, leave alone a Threepenny Opera.*_
> — *Interview with John Higgs
> 
> *, Author of _Stranger Than We Can Imagine: Making Sense of the Twentieth Century_, discussing the controversy of the third volume of _The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen_.


----------



## darjr

trappedslider said:


> I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to get at here because I'm talking about the following quote:



My post was an aside. A comment about folks rejecting modern culture and one in particular. Apologies I should have made that more clear.


----------



## Hussar

Aaaaaand a new record.  A whole 3 pages before snarky edition warring garbage.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Asisreo

I didn't feel like starting a new thread on this but man AI is extremely powerful when making an adventure (at home, of course). I got an entire home base city complete with over 20 attractions done in less than an hour. Of course, you need to tweak a lot of things but the pace of writing has become unreal to me.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I think, like Watchmen, there's a large part of the audience that _definitely_ missed the point.



Yeah. Like a few other properties, when your satire is so subtle that about half the audience misses the point, there’s a problem.


----------



## Cadence

Visiting a friend who is recovering, and the lobby TV has the "History Channel" on. Erich von Däniken is on as a serious person...


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Visiting a friend who is recovering, and the lobby TV has the "History Channel" on. Erich von Däniken is on as a serious person...



I read "Chariots of the Gods" and "Gods from Outer Space", and could easily spot the logical fallacies. The books had only come out a few years before. I was about 9 years old. In fact I just pulled out my copy of "Gods from Outer Space" and the printing date is 1972. I probably read "Chariots" in 1970.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Yeah. Like a few other properties, when your satire is so subtle that about half the audience misses the point, there’s a problem.



Subtlety likely isn't the issue. See "Poe's Law."


----------



## Galandris

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I think, like Watchmen, there's a large part of the audience that _definitely_ missed the point.




The audio commentary makes it clear that a lot of people during the pre-release viewings didn't get it. Which is worrying, because it wasn't subtle AT ALL.


----------



## Galandris

Ryujin said:


> I read "Chariots of the Gods" and "Gods from Outer Space", and could easily spot the logical fallacies. The books had only come out a few years before. I was about 9 years old. In fact I just pulled out my copy of "Gods from Outer Space" and the printing date is 1972. I probably read "Chariots" in 1970.




I read this book around that age, from the history section of the library. I was very confused because (a) I could spot the problems (b) it was a book from the "grown up" part of the library, not the children one, so it MUST be a serious book.


----------



## Ryujin

Galandris said:


> I read this book around that age, from the history section of the library. I was very confused because (a) I could spot the problems (b) it was a book from the "grown up" part of the library, not the children one, so it MUST be a serious book.



At the time of the first book's release, it was insane how much public credibility it was being given. It was everywhere.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> Subtlety likely isn't the issue. See "Poe's Law."



Well, that's a round-about way of saying you agree with me.

"Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture saying that, _*without a clear indicator of the author's intent*_, any parody of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied."

The creators choose to not include such an indication of their intent. They very easily could. Yet do not. They were happy to make money from the fascists for decades while only recently coming out to claim the fascists were misinterpreting their IP. In some cases, the IP holders are still completely silent about their fascist fans. They don't get it both ways.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> I read "Chariots of the Gods" and "Gods from Outer Space", and could easily spot the logical fallacies. The books had only come out a few years before. I was about 9 years old. In fact I just pulled out my copy of "Gods from Outer Space" and the printing date is 1972. I probably read "Chariots" in 1970.




There were copies on our bookshelf when I was growing up that flipped through in the late 70s early 80s.  I'll have to ask my dad sometime why he got them (he definitely isn't the type to believe that).


----------



## darjr

@overgeeked 
Oh and as far as google cache, your welcome. I’ve worked hard to get google to prioritize new posts going to cache without killing the site with crawlers. The new software has been a dream for that compared to the last.


----------



## darjr

Ugh.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots




----------



## darjr

Getting deja vu in rapid repeat is annoying


----------



## payn

Look who's edition warring now.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Y'know what? Someone should hold an actual edition war - Roll up a set of stats, then for each character class, make a character from each edition and have them face off against each other to see which one wins the fight.


----------



## CleverNickName

Mad_Jack said:


> Y'know what? Someone should hold an actual edition war - Roll up a set of stats, then for each character class, make a character from each edition and have them face off against each other to see which one wins the fight.



With a negative armor class and 80 hit points, I don't see how pre-3E editions stand a chance.  Especially with 3.5E fighters rolling up to the battlefield with 200 hit points and attacking at +25/+20/+15/+10 for like, 1d10+8 damage....


----------



## darjr

Finish airlines has a Lasagna with apples in it.


----------



## overgeeked

Mad_Jack said:


> Y'know what? Someone should hold an actual edition war - Roll up a set of stats, then for each character class, make a character from each edition and have them face off against each other to see which one wins the fight.



It would come down to 4E and 3X. Those are the craziest editions across the levels. I don’t know enough 3X to say where it would be competitive with 4E, but it’s certainly not at lower levels.


----------



## Scribe

@CleverNickName


----------



## Malmuria

Pepsi and coke are not the same


----------



## prabe

Malmuria said:


> Pepsi and coke are not the same



This is true, and while at least some people will have preferences one way or the other, the differences really aren't all that major.


----------



## overgeeked

…and we’re back to the stupidest argument on the internet.

“It’s popular, therefore it’s objectively good.”

Sorry, no. Popularity has no bearing on quality.


----------



## prabe

overgeeked said:


> …and we’re back to the stupidest argument on the internet.
> 
> “It’s popular, therefore it’s objectively good.”
> 
> Sorry, no. Popularity has no bearing on quality.



"It's popular, therefore it's objectively crap" is equally stupid.


----------



## Malmuria

overgeeked said:


> …and we’re back to the stupidest argument on the internet.
> 
> “It’s popular, therefore it’s objectively good.”
> 
> Sorry, no. Popularity has no bearing on quality.



I've played with people who genuinely did not know that games other than dnd exist


----------



## overgeeked

Malmuria said:


> I've played with people who genuinely did not know that games other than dnd exist



So have I. 

One of my other favorites is the "I don't play tabletop RPGs, I only play D&D" person. I have one of those in my regular 5E group.


----------



## prabe

Malmuria said:


> I've played with people who genuinely did not know that games other than dnd exist



I have, too. As recently as high school.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

Say "I haven't read anything WotC has said on the issue in years" without saying it.


----------



## Cadence

Nothing makes me more positive about the future of D&D than knowing you are not involved in any capacity beyond filling out surveys and ranting on the internet.

[Not about any of you here of course ;-) ]


----------



## trappedslider

Found this on my feed but didn't feel like looking for the right thread


----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


> Found this on my feed but didn't feel like looking for the right threadView attachment 270032




Solid thumbs up from my other half and a smile from my 13 yo


----------



## Cadence

Also, Elrond is the sheep dog Rex in Babe.


----------



## Scribe




----------



## payn

Scribe said:


>


----------



## trappedslider

*Terrorist:* Let's make an example of this hero. A very tragic example, I'm afraid, Miss...?
*Lois:* Lane.
*Terrorist:* Lane? Lois Lane? The one Superman always saves?!
*Lois:* 'Fraid so.


----------



## trappedslider

Cadence said:


> Solid thumbs up from my other half and a smile from my 13 yo



I jsut want the baby sloth with wings 
@Ryujin I can't remember if you're into steampunk or not but what steampunk imagery comes to mind when you see the name "Cornelius Osiris"


----------



## overgeeked

trappedslider said:


> *Terrorist:* Let's make an example of this hero. A very tragic example, I'm afraid, Miss...?
> *Lois:* Lane.
> *Terrorist:* Lane? Lois Lane? The one Superman always saves?!
> *Lois:* 'Fraid so.



El Dorado!


----------



## Mannahnin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I think, like Watchmen, there's a large part of the audience that _definitely_ missed the point.






Galandris said:


> The audio commentary makes it clear that a lot of people during the pre-release viewings didn't get it. Which is worrying, because it wasn't subtle AT ALL.



It's another example of why Watchmen doesn't work as a movie and how it was specifically designed to take advantage of the comic book medium.

To sell it as a super hero movie they had to make the protagonists look cooler and sexier, the action scenes more fun, etc.  Even while the subtext remained about the evils of vigilantism and fascism, many of the contextual emotional cues in the movie steer the audience the wrong way.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> I jsut want the baby sloth with wings
> @Ryujin I can't remember if you're into steampunk or not but what steampunk imagery comes to mind when you see the name "Cornelius Osiris"



For some reason I had a flash of a stork with a monocle and top hat, but storks aren't associated with Osiris.

And as for Steampunk... (debated either this, or my leather top hat & goggles)


----------



## prabe

I'd tell you, but I don't think anyone would like my answer.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Mannahnin said:


> It's another example of why Watchmen doesn't work as a movie and how it was specifically designed to take advantage of the comic book medium.
> 
> To sell it as a super hero movie they had to make the protagonists look cooler and sexier, the action scenes more fun, etc.  Even while the subtext remained about the evils of vigilantism and fascism, many of the contextual emotional cues in the movie steer the audience the wrong way.



I think you're giving comic book readers way too much credit. Zach Snyder 100% believes he got the message of the movie right, based on his genuine love for the comic book.

And he's hardly alone. Moore has said, for years, that people come up to him and say that Rorschach is their favorite comic book hero and that they aspire to be more like him. (Moore, wisely, retreats into his beard like a turtle into its shell at this point.)


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I think you're giving comic book readers way too much credit. Zach Snyder 100% believes he got the message of the movie right, based on his genuine love for the comic book.
> 
> And he's hardly alone. Moore has said, for years, that people come up to him and say that Rorschach is their favorite comic book hero and that they aspire to be more like him. (Moore, wisely, retreats into his beard like a turtle into its shell at this point.)



lol, this reminds me of Aaron Rodgers going as John Wick for Halloween because "he's my hero..."


----------



## Mannahnin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I think you're giving comic book readers way too much credit. Zach Snyder 100% believes he got the message of the movie right, based on his genuine love for the comic book.
> 
> And he's hardly alone. Moore has said, for years, that people come up to him and say that Rorschach is their favorite comic book hero and that they aspire to be more like him. (Moore, wisely, retreats into his beard like a turtle into its shell at this point.)



Eh.  Even Moore hasn't said that's the majority of readers.  Definitely there are too many who miss the point.  We're agreed there.

If you compare the movie to the comic, the increase in sex appeal and in excitement/fun in the action scenes is obvious.  Glaring, even.


----------



## Mannahnin

And for the actual purpose...

When I first read a book on warfare in the ancient world I was kind of shocked by how important firepower was even in the era of phalanxes, and how much the analysts focused on it.  Slings and bows were already dominant.  Melee was secondary, even though much more important than it is nowadays.  Projection of force over distance is an enormous advantage.


----------



## overgeeked

Is it baffling to anyone else that when an expert in a field tells people they're wrong, they still feel the need to argue? Because it's baffling to me. Not in cases where there are multiple experts who disagree, rather an expert and laypeople. The chance of the expert being right is far, far higher than the chance of the layperson being right. Let it go, you're just wrong.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Mannahnin said:


> If you compare the movie to the comic, the increase in sex appeal and in excitement/fun in the action scenes is obvious.  Glaring, even.



Zach Snyder gonna Zach Snyder


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> Is it baffling to anyone else that when an expert in a field tells people they're wrong, they still feel the need to argue? Because it's baffling to me. Not in cases where there are multiple experts who disagree, rather an expert and laypeople. The chance of the expert being right is far, far higher than the chance of the layperson being right. Let it go, you're just wrong.



I see you've been on Twitter


----------



## RealAlHazred

I theoretically like the idea of widespread solar power, but I'd be worried that we're going to drain the sun. And what will we do then? Wander around in the dark?

Though, I imagine by then we'll have stored up enough of the sun's energy to power a few thousand years of flashlights...


----------



## MarkB

RealAlHazred said:


> I theoretically like the idea of widespread solar power, but I'd be worried that we're going to drain the sun. And what will we do then? Wander around in the dark?
> 
> Though, I imagine by then we'll have stored up enough of the sun's energy to power a few thousand years of flashlights...



How much is too much?


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I see you've been on Twitter



Never. A little closer to "home" as it were.


----------



## RealAlHazred

MarkB said:


> How much is too much?



I can still see some light through the gaps. _Needs more panels_!


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Is it baffling to anyone else that when an expert in a field tells people they're wrong, they still feel the need to argue? Because it's baffling to me. Not in cases where there are multiple experts who disagree, rather an expert and laypeople. The chance of the expert being right is far, far higher than the chance of the layperson being right. Let it go, you're just wrong.



Especially so when the person who created the work is being told that they don't understand the work. Yes, I've seen it happen. More than once.


----------



## Ryujin

When you find out that you're the only currently working moderator of a forum with tens of thousands of users, and the admins have disappeared. Hell, I'm on vacation for the next 3 weeks and have no intentions of minding the shop that makes other people money, alone, as a volunteer.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> When you find out that you're the only currently working moderator of a forum with tens of thousands of users, and the admins have disappeared. Hell, I'm on vacation for the next 3 weeks and have no intentions of minding the shop that makes other people money, alone, as a volunteer.



when you come back


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> when you come back



My reaction will be more like...


----------



## CleverNickName

I'd take a different approach...


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I'd take a different approach...



I wouldn't have known if two issues, that specifically required admin input, hadn't come up. One was about a charity post. I posted in the mod area to ask for guidance and got no response for three days. During that time there were views of the thread by two other mods, but no posts. I know the member personally so, ultimately, told him to go ahead and post.

I have, on occasion, been known to be somewhat liberal with the use of the ban hammer, but only when richly deserved


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> Especially so when the person who created the work is being told that they don't understand the work. Yes, I've seen it happen. More than once.



Weirdly, I find that a bit more forgivable in relation to art. Especially if we’re talking RPGs. You get really close to the thing you’re making and someone else seeing it with fresh eyes can be startling. “But it says X, right there.” No, it says Y, but X is sort if implied. “Oh, crap.” I’ve seen that way too many times to count.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Weirdly, I find that a bit more forgivable in relation to art. Especially if we’re talking RPGs. You get really close to the thing you’re making and someone else seeing it with fresh eyes can be startling. “But it says X, right there.” No, it says Y, but X is sort if implied. “Oh, crap.” I’ve seen that way too many times to count.



What I've tended to see is someone opining on the intent of the writer/designer of something, when they're talking to the writer/designer.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> What I've tended to see is someone opining on the intent of the writer/designer of something, when they're talking to the writer/designer.



I personally would find it nigh-impossible to argue against an author being the best authority as to their intent. I would be inclined to say they aren't, in discussions of the text--sometimes people mean to say one thing and say another.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> I personally would find it nigh-impossible to argue against an author being the best authority as to their intent. I would be inclined to say they aren't, in discussions of the text--sometimes people mean to say one thing and say another.



You would tend to think that, wouldn't you?


----------



## Hussar

overgeeked said:


> Is it baffling to anyone else that when an expert in a field tells people they're wrong, they still feel the need to argue? Because it's baffling to me. Not in cases where there are multiple experts who disagree, rather an expert and laypeople. The chance of the expert being right is far, far higher than the chance of the layperson being right. Let it go, you're just wrong.




Given the last two or three years how are you remotely surprised by this?


----------



## billd91

Well, *that* was thin skinned.


----------



## CleverNickName

I fight the urge to leave this comment all the time:

You can still play 4th Edition.  The books are still for sale, and plenty of people still play it.  Why go through all that trouble to house-rule 5E and argue with your players/DM, when everything you need to play the game you want is already written and ready to go?

I fight the urge to include links to the 4E books on DriveThruRPG, too...PDFs, print-on-demand, it's all there.


----------



## Cadence

Clearly you don't understand how important it is to spread the holy word of pineapple to those who are using (that pathetic excuse for a topping) pepperoni out of force of habit!


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> I fight the urge to leave this comment all the time:
> 
> You can still play 4th Edition.  The books are still for sale, and plenty of people still play it.  Why go through all that trouble to house-rule 5E and argue with your players/DM, when everything you need to play the game you want is already written and ready to go?
> 
> I fight the urge to include links to the 4E books on DriveThruRPG, too.  PDFs, print-on-demand, it's all there ready to go.



Hell, you could swap_ any_ game for 4th edition and it still rings true.


----------



## Cadence

I'm pretty sure that saying sardines are interchangeable with pinapple is not a road one usually wants to go down...


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Hell, you could swap_ any_ game for 4th edition and it still rings true.



It's true, one man's 4E is another man's _Rules Cyclopedia_.  But I see a lot of comments about rewiring 5E to make it look more like 4th Edition, but not very many at all for other editions or games.  It's almost always 4E.

While I'm up on my soapbox about it:  I don't understand the whole "Old School Renaissance" movement in D&D.  Why OSR when you can just OS?


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> It's true, one man's 4E is another man's _Rules Cyclopedia_.
> 
> I don't understand the whole "Old School Renaissance" movement in D&D.  Why OSR when you can just OS?



Well, I do think the R matters in OSR. The old school games were pretty wonky mechanically and work a bit better with a few modern sensibilities. IMO, of course.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> It's true, one man's 4E is another man's _Rules Cyclopedia_.
> 
> I don't understand the whole "Old School Renaissance" movement in D&D.  Why OSR when you can just OS?



It came about during a time when it was easier to make a retroclone than to find old books at reasonable prices. PDFs of the old stuff weren’t available at the time. There’s also a huge DIY element to the scene.


----------



## RealAlHazred

The only yellow fruit that belongs on pizza is banana, and I can't believe all of you are insisting on eating pizza wrong! Banana is the only topping that should be allowed on pizza!


----------



## Umbran

RealAlHazred said:


> The only yellow fruit that belongs on pizza is banana...




The only part of the banana that is yellow is the _outside_.  Pineapple is yellow on the _inside_.

What's the point of having a yellow topping that isn't actually yellow when you consume it?

I mean, you do peel the banana before you eat it... right?  Right?!?


----------



## overgeeked

Why cook at home when you can go to a restaurant? Why cook at home when you can get pre-made meals at the grocery store?


----------



## darjr

@jasper i dint think your supposed to review products of your spouse.


----------



## Bedrockgames

Pinneapple is fine on a pizza. Not something I got all the time, but once in a while a Hawaiian pizza or a pizza with pineapple and prosciutto really hit the spot. What doesn't belong on a pizza is cheddar cheese. I used to deliver pizzas and far too many places use cheddar in their cheese mix


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

CleverNickName said:


> It's true, one man's 4E is another man's _Rules Cyclopedia_.  But I see a lot of comments about rewiring 5E to make it look more like 4th Edition, but not very many at all for other editions or games.  It's almost always 4E.



Well, that's because 4E _did_ have some innovations amidst its missteps (making a very good tactical game out of what had previously been a roleplaying game was always going to alienate people -- that's a misstep, IMO), but 5E, in its haste to change the subject, tossed it all out.

So while 5E brought back good stuff from previous editions, the good stuff from the most recent edition is collecting dust.

I'm not a 4E fan -- I sold my three core books to Noble Knight while they still had that new book smell -- but it's a reasonable take.


CleverNickName said:


> While I'm up on my soapbox about it:  I don't understand the whole "Old School Renaissance" movement in D&D.  Why OSR when you can just OS?



Because those books were, at best, organized like crap, but in many other cases, were full of poorly considered rules that often didn't work well at all or work well together. Once you've reorganized the book (OSRIC, OSE), it's tempting to go "well, _this part_ doesn't do anything" and toss it aside, and then say "I don't understand why _this_ wasn't included in the core product, but just in an add-on" and wire that in properly to the rest. Pretty quickly, you end up with something that cannot, with complete honesty, be said to be a true reprint any more.

The vibe is very much the same as it ever was -- and I love the vibe -- but the result has more modern design principles and even design than most people want to fully acknowledge.

I started out with the 1E PHB and quickly acquired the rest of it when I was a middle schooler, and I would _never_ go back to the TSR rules as printed. Even if I accepted the need for to-hit and saving throw matrices again (and no, thank you), it should all be assembled in a way to make the rules accessible and easy to use, rather than having to go "wait a second, I think there's a paragraph in a random section of the DMG I need to consult real quick; everyone take five" constantly.

The best OSR material is dramatically better than the actual original stuff.


----------



## payn

Bedrockgames said:


> Pinneapple is fine on a pizza. Not something I got all the time, but once in a while a Hawaiian pizza or a pizza with pineapple and prosciutto really hit the spot. What doesn't belong on a pizza is cheddar cheese. I used to deliver pizzas and far too many places use cheddar in their cheese mix



I dont mind a cheddar mix with a cheeseburger pizza, or BBQ chicken. Also, Jalapeno and cheddar are like peanut butter and jelly to me. Though, no your default pizza blend should not be a cheddar mix.


----------



## AnotherGuy

RealAlHazred said:


> The only yellow fruit that belongs on pizza is banana, and I can't believe all of you are insisting on eating pizza wrong! Banana is the only topping that should be allowed on pizza!



The first pizza I craved after covid was a bacon and banana pizza. I do not know why, I just wanted it.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> I mean, you do peel the banana before you eat it... right?  Right?!?



You can _peel _a banana...‽‽‽ BRB, I have to go to the grocery store and try something!


----------



## Bedrockgames

payn said:


> I dont mind a cheddar mix with a cheeseburger pizza, or BBQ chicken. Also, Jalapeno and cheddar are like peanut butter and jelly to me. Though, no your default pizza blend should not be a cheddar mix.




I agree. On a cheeseburger pizza it makes absolute sense. I am talking about using cheddar as part of the standard cheese mix (they do it because it is cheaper but it also creates a thick melted layer: personally I think it is funky).


----------



## prabe

Bedrockgames said:


> I agree. On a cheeseburger pizza it makes absolute sense. I am talking about using cheddar as part of the standard cheese mix (they do it because it is cheaper but it also creates a thick melted layer: personally I think it is funky).



I was thinking that for at least some people Cheddar is what "cheese" tastes like.


----------



## payn

AnotherGuy said:


> The first pizza I craved after covid was a bacon and banana pizza. I do not know why, I just wanted it.



Are you Elvis?


----------



## Bedrockgames

prabe said:


> I was thinking that for at least some people Cheddar is what "cheese" tastes like.




There are whole styles built around using cheddar as well (it isn't only because it is cheaper). And if it is like a small part of the blend, I don't mind (Papa Ginos I think might use cheddar in its three cheese for example). But a lot of the places I delivered for were all or half cheddar. And they piled it on very thick. It just didn't taste right to me. I will say I was being somewhat facetious in response to outrage over pineapple as a topping. I'm actually all for pizza experimentation. But if we are going to point fingers, maybe direct it at the cheddar rather than the pineapple  

Some of the stranger toppings I saw were things like Cod and Scallops. I like anchovy pizza sometimes. But cod, unless it is super fresh (which it usually wasn't at a pizza place) made the pizza smell like ammonia. And scallops, as much as I like them on their own, just don't feel right with cheese to me.


----------



## payn

Bedrockgames said:


> There are whole styles built around using cheddar as well (it isn't only because it is cheaper). And if it is like a small part of the blend, I don't mind (Papa Ginos I think might use cheddar in its three cheese for example). But a lot of the places I delivered for were all or half cheddar. And they piled it on very thick. It just didn't taste right to me. I will say I was being somewhat facetious in response to outrage over pineapple as a topping. I'm actually all for pizza experimentation. But if we are going to point fingers, maybe direct it at the cheddar rather than the pineapple
> 
> Some of the stranger toppings I saw were things like Cod and Scallops. I like anchovy pizza sometimes. But cod, unless it is super fresh (which it usually wasn't at a pizza place) made the pizza smell like ammonia. And scallops, as much as I like them on their own, just don't feel right with cheese to me.



Oh man, Scallops are fantastic but suck if you overcook them. I can imagine some bad scallop pizzas.


----------



## Bedrockgames

AnotherGuy said:


> The first pizza I craved after covid was a bacon and banana pizza. I do not know why, I just wanted it.




I am very curious about this. Does it also have cheese or is does it use something else to go with the banana flavor? Actually I wonder how a peanut sauce pizza with bacon and banana would taste


----------



## Bedrockgames

payn said:


> Oh man, Scallops are fantastic but suck if you overcook them. I can imagine some bad scallop pizzas.




On a pizza I've seen them over cooked, which is bad, but undercooked is even worse (too slimy). It was a topping that just didn't compute for me. I'd do lobster before scallops on a pizza


----------



## Ryujin

Bedrockgames said:


> There are whole styles built around using cheddar as well (it isn't only because it is cheaper). And if it is like a small part of the blend, I don't mind (Papa Ginos I think might use cheddar in its three cheese for example). But a lot of the places I delivered for were all or half cheddar. And they piled it on very thick. It just didn't taste right to me. I will say I was being somewhat facetious in response to outrage over pineapple as a topping. I'm actually all for pizza experimentation. But if we are going to point fingers, maybe direct it at the cheddar rather than the pineapple
> 
> Some of the stranger toppings I saw were things like Cod and Scallops. I like anchovy pizza sometimes. But cod, unless it is super fresh (which it usually wasn't at a pizza place) made the pizza smell like ammonia. And scallops, as much as I like them on their own, just don't feel right with cheese to me.



A chain in Canada used to have both slivered almonds and sunflower seeds as possible toppings. The almonds were quite good, when combined with something like ground beef.


----------



## Bedrockgames

Ryujin said:


> A chain in Canada used to have both slivered almonds and sunflower seeds as possible toppings. The almonds were quite good, when combined with something like ground beef.




My favorite pizza is actually pesto pizza so I can see almonds and sunflower seeds working (they aren't that different from pine nuts).


----------



## AnotherGuy

overgeeked said:


> Is it baffling to anyone else that when an expert in a field tells people they're wrong, they still feel the need to argue? Because it's baffling to me. Not in cases where there are multiple experts who disagree, rather an expert and laypeople. The chance of the expert being right is far, far higher than the chance of the layperson being right. Let it go, you're just wrong.



You're right - I say we do not appreciate nameless experts enough. 
Just the other day I read how experts declared that changing your bed sheets too vigorously increased your chances of cardiac arrest.
What would we do with out them to give us such profound and life-saving advice?


----------



## AnotherGuy

payn said:


> Are you Elvis?



That actually sounds good to me. 
Surely I'm not alone in this.


----------



## Umbran

Bedrockgames said:


> peanut sauce pizza


----------



## payn

AnotherGuy said:


> That actually sounds good to me.
> Surely I'm not alone in this.



I dont know what it is about deep fried sandwiches, but they just dont seem appealing to me. Perhaps an unfried version 


Bedrockgames said:


> On a pizza I've seen them over cooked, which is bad, but undercooked is even worse (too slimy). It was a topping that just didn't compute for me. I'd do lobster before scallops on a pizza



If I was going to do it, id want like a woodfired set up. Id cook the pizza and do the scallops in a pan. Drop them on after the pizza comes out. Point being, there is a way to do it, but most places just toss the pie into a super hot oven without any consideration.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Bedrockgames said:


> I am very curious about this. Does it also have cheese or is does it use something else to go with the banana flavor? Actually I wonder how a peanut sauce pizza with bacon and banana would taste



It includes the cheese. 

Well peanut butter milkshakes/smoothies are common - so the peanut butter and banana combo is not new.


----------



## AnotherGuy

payn said:


> I dont know what it is about deep fried sandwiches, but they just dont seem appealing to me. Perhaps an unfried version



What is deep fried? Is it like toasted? or is the whole thing immersed in fried oil - like deep fried chips?


----------



## payn

AnotherGuy said:


> What is deep fried? Is it like toasted? or is the whole thing immersed in fried oil - like deep fried chips?



I believe the French loaf is hollowed out, the ingredients stuff in, and then dropped into a vat of oil. Like a Monte Cristo.


----------



## prabe

AnotherGuy said:


> What is deep fried? Is it like toasted? or is the whole thing immersed in fried oil - like deep fried chips?



Deep-frying is frying such that the food is covered over the top with oil, and either floats or is supported by something like a basket, so the oil is what's conveying the heat to the food. Pan-frying has oil some way up the sides of the food, but the food is resting on the pan, so there's more of a hard sear happening there.

You can, in principle, deep-fry potato chips in a skillet. Something like a loaf of bread probably needs something more like a commercial deep-fryer.


----------



## AnotherGuy

payn said:


> I believe the French loaf is hollowed out, the ingredients stuff in, and then dropped into a vat of oil. Like a Monte Cristo.



Yeah I didn't read the entire article. I agree with you - I mean I'm sure it tastes ok, but I'd prefer it on a toasted sandwich.


----------



## Bedrockgames

AnotherGuy said:


> Yeah I didn't read the entire article. I agree with you - I mean I'm sure it tastes ok, but I'd prefer it on a toasted sandwich.




I've done them more like a grilled cheese (just mashing up the peanut butter and bananas and spreading them on the bread first). Probably a bit healthier than the Elvis method


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> Deep-frying is frying such that the food is covered over the top with oil, and either floats or is supported by something like a basket, so the oil is what's conveying the heat to the food. Pan-frying has oil some way up the sides of the food, but the food is resting on the pan, so there's more of a hard sear happening there.
> 
> You can, in principle, deep-fry potato chips in a skillet. Something like a loaf of bread probably needs something more like a commercial deep-fryer.



If someone in the American South doesn't have a deep fryer big enough to hold a turkey, are they really a Southerner?


----------



## payn

Ryujin said:


> If someone in the American South doesn't have a deep fryer big enough to hold a turkey, are they really a Southerner?



That and pot fillers.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Umbran said:


> View attachment 270158


----------



## Ryujin

< Sigh > It's literally in the name.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> If someone in the American South doesn't have a deep fryer big enough to hold a turkey, are they really a Southerner?



I am reasonably sure I have in-laws in central Georgia who do not have such a cooking implement, and believe me, they are Southerners.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> If someone in the American South doesn't have a deep fryer big enough to hold a turkey, are they really a Southerner?



Doesn't have one.  Moved to the south from the midwest.  Checks out.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> If someone in the American South doesn't have a deep fryer big enough to hold a turkey, are they really a Southerner?




I mean, I get the dig, but no.  A lot of cuisine in the South is not based in deep frying, but is more about stewing and braising.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> I mean, I get the dig, but no.  A lot of cuisine in the South is not based in deep frying, but is more about stewing and braising.



Some people just can't let a joke stand on it's own


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Some people just can't let a joke stand on it's own



Adjusted for population, the seven states with the most  Thanksiving cooking disasters (I think) over a seven year period ending about a half decade ago were...

State   Total  / Per Million Population
Texas  38  / 0.96
*Illinois 27 / 2.13*
Pennsylvania 23 / 1.80
Ohio 23 / 1.97
New York 22 / 1.13
*South Carolina 16 / 3.11*
Georgia 16 / 1.51

Holy cow my home state and adopted state are both bad at this!









						Top 5 states with most deep-fried turkey accidents
					

Every year deep-fryer fires are responsible for five deaths, 60 injuries, the destruction of 900 homes, and more than $15-million in property damage, according to the National Fire Protection Association.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Adjusted for population, the seven states with the most  Thanksiving cooking disasters (I think) over a seven year period ending about a half decade ago were...
> 
> State   Total  / Per Million Population
> Texas  38  / 0.96
> *Illinois 27 / 2.13*
> Pennsylvania 23 / 1.80
> Ohio 23 / 1.97
> New York 22 / 1.13
> *South Carolina 16 / 3.11*
> Georgia 16 / 1.51
> 
> Holy cow my home state and adopted state are both bad at this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 5 states with most deep-fried turkey accidents
> 
> 
> Every year deep-fryer fires are responsible for five deaths, 60 injuries, the destruction of 900 homes, and more than $15-million in property damage, according to the National Fire Protection Association.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> Adjusted for population, the seven states with the most  Thanksiving cooking disasters (I think) over a seven year period ending about a half decade ago were...
> 
> State   Total  / Per Million Population
> Texas  38  / 0.96
> *Illinois 27 / 2.13*
> Pennsylvania 23 / 1.80
> Ohio 23 / 1.97
> New York 22 / 1.13
> *South Carolina 16 / 3.11*
> Georgia 16 / 1.51
> 
> Holy cow my home state and adopted state are both bad at this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 5 states with most deep-fried turkey accidents
> 
> 
> Every year deep-fryer fires are responsible for five deaths, 60 injuries, the destruction of 900 homes, and more than $15-million in property damage, according to the National Fire Protection Association.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com



I wonder how New Jersey, a state sandwiched between Pennsylvania and New York, didn't make the list. Possibly because we hide the evidence of our failures better?


----------



## MarkB

Cadence said:


> Adjusted for population, the seven states with the most  Thanksiving cooking disasters (I think) over a seven year period ending about a half decade ago were...
> 
> State   Total  / Per Million Population
> Texas  38  / 0.96
> *Illinois 27 / 2.13*
> Pennsylvania 23 / 1.80
> Ohio 23 / 1.97
> New York 22 / 1.13
> *South Carolina 16 / 3.11*
> Georgia 16 / 1.51
> 
> Holy cow my home state and adopted state are both bad at this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 5 states with most deep-fried turkey accidents
> 
> 
> Every year deep-fryer fires are responsible for five deaths, 60 injuries, the destruction of 900 homes, and more than $15-million in property damage, according to the National Fire Protection Association.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com



I'm guessing a lot of these were object lessons in the principles of fluid displacement.

EDIT: Thanks @payn for the timely illustration.


----------



## Cadence

RealAlHazred said:


> I wonder how New Jersey, a state sandwiched between Pennsylvania and New York, didn't make the list. Possibly because we hide the evidence of our failures better?



If you average the PA and NY rates and multiply it by the population, I think you're only estimated to have had 13 or 14 of them, so just misses the list of biggest totals!


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Adjusted for population, the seven states with the most  Thanksiving cooking disasters (I think) over a seven year period ending about a half decade ago were...
> 
> State   Total  / Per Million Population
> Texas  38  / 0.96
> *Illinois 27 / 2.13*
> Pennsylvania 23 / 1.80
> Ohio 23 / 1.97
> New York 22 / 1.13
> *South Carolina 16 / 3.11*
> Georgia 16 / 1.51
> 
> Holy cow my home state and adopted state are both bad at this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 5 states with most deep-fried turkey accidents
> 
> 
> Every year deep-fryer fires are responsible for five deaths, 60 injuries, the destruction of 900 homes, and more than $15-million in property damage, according to the National Fire Protection Association.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com



I never would have figured that a further north state would rate so high on the turkey 'splosion list 

THAW YOUR TURKEYS, PEOPLE!


----------



## J.Quondam

I live several blocks from the remains of little house (in Texas) that burned down in a deep fryer mishap. It happened Thanksgiving over 10 years ago. The lot is still vacant; I assume that's because it's still haunted by the turkey's irate ghost.


----------



## prabe

As God is my witness, I thought turkeys would fry!

I'll see myself out ...


----------



## Cadence

Is this one so bad that it couldn't even be an AI punking us?


----------



## RealAlHazred

J.Quondam said:


> I live several blocks from the remains of little house (in Texas) that burned down in a deep fryer mishap. It happened Thanksgiving over 10 years ago. The lot is still vacant; I assume that's because it's still haunted by the turkey's irate ghost.



Thank you for providing me the plot for next year's Thanksgiving Day game!


----------



## Cadence

That thing where either your Dr's office is incapable of saying fill early or the pharmacy tech is incapable of writing it down, the expletive laws around controlled prescriptions have gone overkill to stop the expletives who lie to get them, and you're trying to get out early in the morning to beat a huge snow storm half way across the country.  

And you really shouldn't take your frustration out on the group you're getting ready to DM for.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> That thing where either your Dr's office is incapable of saying fill early or the pharmacy tech is incapable of writing it down, the expletive laws around controlled prescriptions have gone overkill to stop the expletives who lie to get them, and you're trying to get out early in the morning to beat a huge snow storm half way across the country.
> 
> And you really shouldn't take your frustration out on the group you're getting ready to DM for.



Stupid tweakers.


----------



## Galandris

prabe said:


> I personally would find it nigh-impossible to argue against an author being the best authority as to their intent. I would be inclined to say they aren't, in discussions of the text--sometimes people mean to say one thing and say another.




Yes, I have no problem providing a different interpretation of the work than the one the author intended. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the latter's brain is more important than the author's to explain something. The intent is one think (and says something about the author), but the result is often detached from it. Apparently, Charles Perrault's intent with Sleeping Beauty was to warn women against marrying too young. This isn't quite what one can get out of the text, IMHO.


----------



## Mad_Jack

overgeeked said:


> Is it baffling to anyone else that when an expert in a field tells people they're wrong, they still feel the need to argue? Because it's baffling to me. Not in cases where there are multiple experts who disagree, rather an expert and laypeople. The chance of the expert being right is far, far higher than the chance of the layperson being right. Let it go, you're just wrong.




 I love it when the first thing the expert says is: "I am literally a professional with decades of experience specializing in this exact thing" and then people who've watched three Youtube videos by wackjob conspiracy nuts try to argue with them.
I came across a situation where there was an argument going on about some new study, and the actual authors of the study got involved... Even after they provided the literal data from their study, in its entirety, including video, idiots were continuing to argue with them.




trappedslider said:


> View attachment 270109




 Even rejecting the assumption that the correct answer is to simply have one of them murder the third person, it only took me about six seconds to solve this one...




Ryujin said:


> When you find out that you're the only currently working moderator of a forum with tens of thousands of users, and the admins have disappeared. Hell, I'm on vacation for the next 3 weeks and have no intentions of minding the shop that makes other people money, alone, as a volunteer.




 I used to be a member of a webcam community a long time ago... At one point, the owners of the site simply abandoned it and cut off all contact with their paid mods and support staff. Nobody knew what the hell was going on for several months, but the mods did their best to keep the place running for as long as they could until the lights got turned off...


----------



## Hussar

That was an actually impressive bit of trolling.  Very nicely done.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


>





Ryujin said:


> I never would have figured that a further north state would rate so high on the turkey 'splosion list
> 
> THAW YOUR TURKEYS, PEOPLE!



Good advice.  Also, another safety PSA: if your cooking oil is so overheated that it _is already on fire,_ it's probably not a good idea to try to cook with it.


----------



## trappedslider

xkcd: Gravity
					






					xkcd.com


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Some people just can't let a joke stand on it's own




Not when that joke is a dig at a large number of people, no.  Sorry.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

Sure, when the initial definitions are too narrow for you to win a debate, just widen the definitions. That works.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I just, I know we were told to drop it, but I need the validation of a bunch of strangers on the Internet supporting my playstyle, where I have all NPCs target one PC until that character is dead, and then I feel I have raised the stakes to the appropriate level and can call off the rest of the attacks. And it can be really surprising, too, like the time the party was at a formal ball for the entire session, but in my opinion one character needs to die* to set the tone!

* And I don't need to hear any complaints from Justin, how it seems to always be _his_ character my NPCs target; it's just the luck of the dice! It's what the NPCs would do!


----------



## payn

"If I think something sucks, I want to post about it. What I dont want, is for folks to say it doesn't. I mean, its fine if you think that, but please don't post it."


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> I just, I know we were told to drop it, but I need the validation of a bunch of strangers on the Internet supporting my playstyle, where I have all NPCs target one PC until that character is dead, and then I feel I have raised the stakes to the appropriate level and can call off the rest of the attacks. And it can be really surprising, too, like the time the party was at a formal ball for the entire session, but in my opinion one character needs to die* to set the tone!
> 
> * And I don't need to hear any complaints from Justin, how it seems to always be _his_ character my NPCs target; it's just the luck of the dice! It's what the NPCs would do!



However...


----------



## trappedslider

payn said:


> "If I think something sucks, I want to post about it. What I dont want, is for folks to say it doesn't. I mean, its fine if you think that, but please don't post it."



or "Rings of power all opinions welcomed"


----------



## RealAlHazred

payn said:


> "If I think something sucks, I want to post about it. What I dont want, is for folks to say it doesn't. I mean, its fine if you think that, but please don't post it."



See, but I don't think it sucks, and I won't rest until I've convinced you that it doesn't suck, either! Because I CAN'T BE WRONG I JUST CAN'T EVELYN SHUT UP SHUT UP I CAN'T HEAR YOU IN MY HEAD

_ahem_ As I was saying...


----------



## CleverNickName

*CleverEggNog*

_Ingredients_
1 gallon of your favorite French vanilla ice cream
2 cups, more or less, of your favorite dark rum, brandy, or bourbon
Milk, maybe.
Ground cinnamon, nutmeg, and/or cloves

_Instructions_
Melt the ice cream in the refrigerator for a day or two.
Pour the melted ice cream into a chilled punch bowl.
Stir in your liquor of choice; I recommend a decent mid-shelf bourbon.
Top with nutmeg, cinnamon, clove.
Serve.

_Tips_
Too sweet?  Add some milk (or more liquor)
Too rich?  Add milk.
Too much?  Give your keys to someone and call a cab.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> *CleverEggNog*
> 
> _Ingredients_
> 1 gallon of your favorite French vanilla ice cream
> 2 cups, more or less, of your favorite dark rum, brandy, or bourbon
> Milk, maybe.
> Ground cinnamon, nutmeg, and/or cloves
> 
> _Instructions_
> Melt the ice cream in the refrigerator for a day or two.
> Pour melted ice cream into a chilled punch bowl.
> Stir in your liquor of choice.
> Top with nutmeg, cinnamon, clove.
> Serve.
> 
> _Tips_
> Too sweet?  Add some milk (or more liquor)
> Too rich?  Add milk.
> Too much?  Give your keys to someone and call a cab.



I like that its not actually eggnog, which I would say sucks, but I'm not sure I can after recent comments.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> I like that its not actually eggnog, which I would say sucks, but I'm not sure I can after recent comments.



It's a lot closer to "actual eggnog" than you would think.

*"Actual" Eggnog: * stir egg yolks and sugar together until frothy, heat milk and cream until simmering, stir the egg-sugar mixture into the hot milk.  Chill the mixture, then stir in vanilla and liquor.  Serve.

*French Vanilla Ice Cream:  *stir egg yolks and sugar together until frothy, heat milk and cream until simmering, stir the egg-sugar mixture into the hot milk.  Chill the mixture, then stir in vanilla.  Pour into freezer and churn until thick.  Transfer to container and freeze until set.  Serve.


----------



## trappedslider

don't make me break out actual numbers and quotes and historical references. I mean I don't mind researching but don't get mad if I invalidate your point with my research.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> It's a lot closer to "real eggnog" than you would think.
> 
> "Real" Eggnog:  stir egg yolks and sugar together until frothy, heat milk and cream until simmering, stir the egg-sugar mixture into the hot milk.  Chill the mixture, then stir in vanilla and liquor.  Serve.
> 
> French Vanilla Ice Cream:  stir egg yolks and sugar together until frothy, heat milk and cream until simmering, stir the egg-sugar mixture into the hot milk.  Chill the mixture, then stir in vanilla.  Pour into freezer and churn until thick.  Transfer to container and freeze until set.  Serve.



It's that yolk-y bit im not a fan of. As cool as the dude is, im not a big fan of dairy in my booze.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> It's that yolk-y bit im not a fan of. As cool as the dude is, im not a big fan of dairy in my booze.



Oh I totally get that; it's definitely not for everyone.  It was the part about it "not actually eggnog" that I was responding to.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> Oh I totally get that; it's definitely not for everyone.  It was the part about it "not actually eggnog" that I was responding to.



Yeap, I meant not yolk-y, which might make me want to try it. Funny story, bartenders hate making Brandy Alexanders (brandy and ice cream like drink.) They usually make way too much in the blender and end up offering extra to folks who didnt order them. Like my step mom around the holidays.


----------



## CleverNickName

I hated making daiquiris.  Or any sticky, frozen fruit drink...loud, time-consuming, requires lots of cleanup, and the person ordering them usually doesn't understand that bartenders basically work for tips.


----------



## overgeeked

“All styles and preferences welcome.” 

“If you don’t like it as much as we do, in exactly the same ways the we do, you will be attacked.” 

Seriously, pick one.


----------



## Scribe

overgeeked said:


> “All styles and preferences welcome.”
> 
> “If you don’t like it as much as we do, in exactly the same ways the we do, you will be attacked.”
> 
> Seriously, pick one.




I mean, I dont know the specific context, but we all know that the first line is not true. Hasnt been for years (at least) around here.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Scribe said:


> I mean, I dont know the specific context, but we all know that the first line is not true. Hasnt been for years (at least) around here.



"All context understandings are welcome."

"If you don't understand the context in the same way we do, you will be attacked."


----------



## CleverNickName

"All pizza toppings are available."
"_HOW DARE YOU._"


----------



## CleverNickName

From some of the "discussions" I've seen here, OnePizza won't be the pizza that we wanted.

It'll be the pizza we deserve.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## eyeheartawk

_Listen, I know that you've all been just using green peppers on your pizza for decades. And, technically, nothing stops you from just continuing to use the green peppers you get from your garden, as you have been for decades, for free. But really, you should use these new green peppers that we provide which are exactly the same but worse in every way. Also, I now need to look into your financials. _


----------



## Ryujin

eyeheartawk said:


> _Listen, I know that you've all been just using green peppers on your pizza for decades. And, technically, nothing stops you from just continuing to use the green peppers you get from your garden, as you have been for decades, for free. But really, you should use these new green peppers that we provide which are exactly the same but worse in every way. Also, I now need to look into your financials. _



"And we may also be basing a crytocurrency on your peppers"?


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> While I'm up on my soapbox about it:  I don't understand the whole "Old School Renaissance" movement in D&D.  Why OSR when you can just OS?



I would say that question is based on a misconception.  The Old School Renaissance was not originally centered on retroclones, nor, I would argue, is it really even now.  It was about re-examining, re-engaging with, and proud apologia for the original TSR D&D editions.  OSRIC was, IIRC, the first retroclone, and was specifically designed to facilitate folks publishing new _modules_ for and supplements to 1E AD&D (_Old School Reference_ and _Index Compilation)_.  It was not intended to replace AD&D, but rather to explain it a bit more clearly and be a publishing tool to facilitate those modules/adventures and supplements.

As overgeeked mentioned, retroclones got popular in _part _because for several years WotC stopped selling PDFs or PODs of the original rules, so retroclones filled in a gap in the market there.

Of course, retroclones also represent a great creative outlet- MOST of them incorporate some house rules, refinements, clean-up of or at least clarification of the older rules.  So after OSRIC and BFRPG and Labyrinth Lord and so forth paved the way and established clearly that WotC wasn't going to freak out and get litigious about clones, more and more people got into cloning.  And hopefully that helps answer your question about why people keep making clones. 

Nowadays I would say that clones have disproportionately high visibility online compared to their real importance, just because the publishers promote them.  But if you spend time in OSR forums and Reddit and so forth, while the clones themselves do get a fair amount of discussion, a ton of it is still about the original rules, and about modules and dungeons produced for OSR use, which are mostly actually FOR the original editions.  Just labeling them with the current most popular clone (right now it's OSE, of course, which is really a very faithful re-presentation of B/X) avoids trademark issues, and helps cross-market.



CleverNickName said:


> I hated making daiquiris.  Or any sticky, frozen fruit drink...loud, time-consuming, requires lots of cleanup, and the person ordering them usually doesn't understand that bartenders basically work for tips.



For a second I was confused, then remembered how ubiquitous frozen daiquiris are.  Just within the last year I got to be a big fan of a classic daiquiri. Very elegant and simple.


----------



## trappedslider

ohh Jack Ryan season three dropped yesterday and I didn't realize it....


----------



## darjr

Do some of you folks meet and brainstorm the conspiracy theories?

I’d like to actually attend please.


----------



## eyeheartawk

darjr said:


> Do some of you folks meet and brainstorm the conspiracy theories?
> 
> I’d like to actually attend please.



Yeah. You want in? 

We actually made that new board that looks exactly like The Piazza, only we call it The Pizza. 

It also doubles as the official home of the Bring Back TAB™ club.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> ohh Jack Ryan season three dropped yesterday and I didn't realize it....



A lot of folks thought season 1 was better, but I thought season 2 was great.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> Yeah. You want in?
> 
> We actually made that new board that looks exactly like The Piazza, only we call it The Pizza.
> 
> It also doubles as the official home of the Bring Back TAB™ club.



Remember D&D? It's is back in Pog form.


----------



## darjr

eyeheartawk said:


> Yeah. You want in?
> 
> We actually made that new board that looks exactly like The Piazza, only we call it The Pizza.
> 
> It also doubles as the official home of the Bring Back TAB™ club.



I really do. I know I'll probably get quickly ejected but I'll never remove the patch!


----------



## eyeheartawk

payn said:


> Remember D&D? It's is back in Pog form.


----------



## overgeeked

It would be so much easier to have discussions with people if they didn't assume everyone who disagreed with them was an idiot.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> It would be so much easier to have discussions with people if they didn't assume everyone who disagreed with them was an idiot.



Based on recent events you might have been able to end that sentence on the word "assumed."


----------



## prabe

It's always fun (or "fun") watching someone realize the person they're treating like a moron is, in fact, not a moron.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> Based on recent events you might have been able to end that sentence on the word "assumed."



Either, or.


----------



## Mad_Jack

overgeeked said:


> It would be so much easier to have discussions with people if they didn't assume everyone who disagreed with them was an idiot.




 I assume everyone is an idiot whether they agree with me or not. After all, we are spending hours of our time discussing things on an internet forum...


----------



## Umbran

trappedslider said:


> or "Rings of power all opinions welcomed"




*Mod Note:*
If this thread becomes a place to make direct snide remarks about other thread, it will get closed.

We're okay with folks sharing some of the general frustrations of online interactions, but not passive-aggressive potshots.  

So please, folks, don't do this.


----------



## CleverNickName

Well that is certainly a...creative?...position to take.  I suppose that, if you get drunk, spin around three times, squint, and desperately want to start a fight, I can see how you might come to that conclusion.  Somehow.

Seriously, why do people always take the least-charitable, worst-faith, most convoluted interpretation possible when discussing an opposed point of view of something?  Why all the social gymnastics just to avoid having to say "I don't know" or "I was wrong"?

Oh.  Right.

This is the Internet.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Well that is certainly a...creative?...position to take.  I suppose that, if you get drunk, spin around three times, squint, and desperately want to start a fight, I can see how you might come to that conclusion.  Somehow.
> 
> Seriously, why do people always take the least-charitable, worst-faith, most convoluted interpretation possible when discussing an opposed point of view of something?  Why all the social gymnastics just to avoid having to say "I don't know" or "I was wrong"?
> 
> Oh.  Right.
> 
> This is the Internet.



Because I can't be wrong. I once thought I was wrong, in 1968, but I was wrong.


----------



## Malmuria

dnd social media this week


----------



## J.Quondam

That resigned feeling when you are going to bed, and you know that multiple threads you're interested in are each going to be at least 100 pages longer by tomorrow morning.


----------



## trappedslider

Rian Johnson on How The Last Jedi Reflects His Own Star Wars Fandom
					

The most contentious conversation starter (or ender) during nerdy holidays just might be whether or not you enjoyed 2017's Star Wars: The Last Jedi—a film still being regularly and passionately discussed, unlike Lucasfilm’s most recent trilogy closer The Rise of Skywalker. Remember that one?




					www.yahoo.com
				






> You can’t deny that Johnson’s film shook up the galaxy far, far away—earning some misguided wrath thanks to the idea that going different places with _Star Wars_ is sacrilegious. Johnson is aware of what he did and how it’s impacted the stories since. “I definitely didn’t approach the entire thing as a meta exercise because I think first and foremost, it has to be an honest expression of what the characters are actually going through. And it’s not very interesting to just think in a meta way about _Star Wars_.”


----------



## payn




----------



## eyeheartawk

overgeeked said:


> It would be so much easier to have discussions with people if they didn't assume everyone who disagreed with them was an idiot.



Ha, jokes on you.

_I'm _the idiot in any conversation.


----------



## RealAlHazred

eyeheartawk said:


> Ha, jokes on you.
> 
> _I'm _the idiot in any conversation.



Ty Kajada : What kind of fool are you?

Odo : My own special variety.


----------



## trappedslider

well this happened A New Ruling Could Make 'Deceptive' Movie Trailers a Target For Legal Action


----------



## Cadence

TIL.  Professor Wickwire in Brisco County Jr., Gomez Addams, and Samwise Gamgee's adoptive father are the same person.

Voice wise in Brisco, he sounds a heck of a lot like Meredith Wilson in the Burns and Allen radio show (which is what led me to look up the above).


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> well this happened A New Ruling Could Make 'Deceptive' Movie Trailers a Target For Legal Action



About time! No more movies where the trailer is better than the movie itself!


----------



## Ryujin

J.Quondam said:


> About time! No more movies where the trailer is better than the movie itself!



Now if only they could find a way to force them to not reveal the whole movie in the trailer...


----------



## billd91

Cadence said:


> TIL.  Professor Wickwire in Brisco County Jr., Gomez Addams, and Samwise Gamgee's adoptive father are the same person.
> 
> Voice wise in Brisco, he sounds a heck of a lot like Meredith Wilson in the Burns and Allen radio show (which is what led me to look up the above).



TIL - HE'S STILL ALIVE. I had no idea.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I just saw that Sam Bankman-Fired (sic) was released on a $250 million bond.

I really hope that was paid in _actual dollars,_ and not _crypto-Monopoly money_ that might _drastically change value in the space of 1 hour._..


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> I just saw that Sam Bankman-Fired (sic) was released on a $250 million bond.
> 
> I really hope that was paid in _actual dollars,_ and not _crypto-Monopoly money_ that might _drastically change value in the space of 1 hour._..



If it's a bond, then he likely had to provide 10% or something of that amount up front, to the bonding agency.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Ryujin said:


> If it's a bond, then he likely had to provide 10% or something of that amount up front, to the bonding agency.



Will they take dogecoins and unsold copies of SFNG? If I have to, I'll crack open the Pog Vault!


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> Now if only they could find a way to force them to not reveal the whole movie in the trailer...



On the contrary, now they'll be obliged to do so, lest they be accused of misleading their audience.


----------



## Mad_Jack

MarkB said:


> On the contrary, now they'll be obliged to do so, lest they be accused of misleading their audience.




 I'm going to make a movie just so I can put a disclaimer at the beginning that says that all scenes shown in the trailer have been deleted due to last-minute editing...


----------



## MarkB

Mad_Jack said:


> I'm going to make a movie just so I can put a disclaimer at the beginning that says that all scenes shown in the trailer have been deleted due to last-minute editing...



And then go ahead and include all the scenes anyway, in ways that completely change their context and importance to the story.


----------



## CleverNickName

Heh.
Some of ya'll never playtested that OneD&D packet, and it shows.


----------



## Mad_Jack

MarkB said:


> And then go ahead and include all the scenes anyway, in ways that completely change their context and importance to the story.




 Exactly.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> Heh.
> Some of ya'll never playtested that OneD&D packet, and it shows.



I expect the overwhelmingly vast majority of people don’t.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Remember: There are no disagreements in life, just people who are right and people who are monsters who should be banished from society.


----------



## Cadence

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Remember: There are no disagreements in life, just people who are right and people who are monsters who should be banished from society.



Edition wars, bards, pineapple, ketchup on hot dogs,....  It never ends.


----------



## overgeeked

Tell me you know nothing about marketing without saying you know nothing about marketing.


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> Tell me you know nothing about marketing without saying you know nothing about marketing.



"There's no such thing as bad publicity!"


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> "There's no such thing as bad publicity!"



The corollary is: tell me you don’t know a thing about working customer service without saying you don’t know a thing about working in customer service.

“The customer is always right!”


----------



## CleverNickName

Tell me you've never worked in customer service, without saying you've never worked in customer service.

"I demand to talk to your manager!"
"I don't tip."
"Get a real job."
"I have a coupon from your competitor."
"Do you know who I am?"


----------



## Malmuria

Wotc is about to turn a bunch of rules lawyers into actual lawyers.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Old hotness…

Pineapple pizza. 

New hotness…






Dragonfruit Pizza!


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Tell me you've never worked in customer service, without saying you've never worked in customer service.



I set out five single dollar bills at the edge of the table. Every time something happens that I don't like, I make sure the server is watching as I take one a put it back in my wallet.

Then, when we're finished, I take all the rest of the bills and put them back in, then go and tip like a normal person. What? The dollar bills want to be _included_! They never feel like they're _part of the family_, always jammed in a _dark, cramped, musty wallet!_ You got to let them _live _a little! But I hate for them to see how unpleasant the world is, so I hide them away!


----------



## darjr

Well-I-have-access-to-the-code. Do-not-force-my-hand.


----------



## AnotherGuy

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Old hotness…
> 
> Pineapple pizza.
> 
> New hotness…
> 
> View attachment 270432
> 
> Dragonfruit Pizza!



Oh that looks interesting. Broccoli on pizza - that's new. I would try it.


----------



## payn

AnotherGuy said:


> Oh that looks interesting. Broccoli on pizza - that's new. I would try it.






Local joint has been serving these up forever. As Fergi would say, "T to the A to the S-T-Y"


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Thread starter idea-

What is wrong with your face? (+)

_Keep it positive!_


----------



## J.Quondam




----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Thread starter idea-
> 
> What is wrong with your face? (+)
> 
> _Keep it positive!_



What's wrong with your face? All opinions are welcomed.


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> What's wrong with your face? All opinions are welcomed.



lol you never let anything go. 
Merry Xmas and a happy new year.


----------



## MarkB

trappedslider said:


> What's wrong with your face? All opinions are welcomed.



What's wrong with your face? Extensive and yet highly-contested set of poll options.


----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> View attachment 270450
> Local joint has been serving these up forever. As Fergi would say, "T to the A to the S-T-Y"




 One of our local places does a potato pie - crust rubbed with olive oil and oregano, covered in thin-sliced potatoes (basically unbaked potato chips) and mozzarella cheese... I have them add bacon and onion to mine.


----------



## CleverNickName

The social gymnastics that people will go through to avoid talking to their players/DM is truly baffling.  Fiat?  Restrictions?  Taking sides?  Friggin' _coercion?_  Am I the only one who plays D&D _with his_ _friends?_


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> The social gymnastics that people will go through to avoid talking to their players/DM is truly baffling.  Am I the only one who plays D&D with _friends?_



You aren't. Even when I've played with people who started as strangers, I've expected ... at least, something like friendly acquaintances. Like, as an eventual endpoint.


----------



## MarkB

CleverNickName said:


> The social gymnastics that people will go through to avoid talking to their players/DM is truly baffling.  Fiat?  Restrictions?  Taking sides?  Friggin' _coercion?_  Am I the only one who plays D&D _with his_ _friends?_



That doesn't always make it easier. You have more to lose when directly challenging a friend than with a stranger.


----------



## prabe

MarkB said:


> That doesn't always make it easier. You have more to lose when directly challenging a friend than with a stranger.



The long-time friends I game with, we understand each other well and we trust each other well and there are all sorts of presumptions of good faith and stuff. None of that is likely to hold with brand-new strangers.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> The social gymnastics that people will go through to avoid talking to their players/DM is truly baffling.  Fiat?  Restrictions?  Taking sides?  Friggin' _coercion?_  Am I the only one who plays D&D _with his_ _friends?_




You play D&D with your _enemies_, so you can gripe about D&D with your _friends. _


----------



## trappedslider

I tried reading the bible, but it was too preachy


----------



## CleverNickName

MarkB said:


> That doesn't always make it easier. You have more to lose when directly challenging a friend than with a stranger.



See, this is what I'm talking about.
Why does there have to be a "direct challenge" at all?  What's wrong with just talking about what you want, and what they want, and then figuring out a path forward together?  My friends and I just aren't that confrontational or assertive.  Least of all when it comes to a game.


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> The social gymnastics that people will go through to avoid talking to their players/DM is truly baffling.  Fiat?  Restrictions?  Taking sides?  Friggin' _coercion?_  Am I the only one who plays D&D _with his_ _friends?_



I'm pretty sure most such complainers are either greatly exaggerating so they have something to whine about on the internet, or else they just need to hone their player/GM vetting skills.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## South by Southwest

CleverNickName said:


> The social gymnastics that people will go through to avoid talking to their players/DM is truly baffling.  Fiat?  Restrictions?  Taking sides?  Friggin' _coercion?_  Am I the only one who plays D&D _with his_ _friends?_



Right there with you. It's a social game; people who don't enjoy the social interactions aren't going to have a good time.


----------



## payn

Christmas beef ribs gave me the itis.


----------



## CleverNickName

For Christmas dinner, I made a Burnt Basque cheesecake for the first time in my life, and I don't think I can ever go back to New York Style.





_(stock photo for illustrative purposes only.  We devoured mine before it could be photographed.)_


----------



## prabe

CleverNickName said:


> For Christmas dinner, I made a Burnt Basque cheesecake for the first time in my life, and I don't think I can ever go back to New York Style.
> 
> View attachment 270591
> _(stock photo for illustrative purposes only.  We devoured mine before it could be photographed.)_



That seems like a decent holiday dinner to me.


----------



## Cadence

If nothing else, Santa brought me assurances that you* have nothing to do with One/5.5 whatsoever beyond ranting into the void about it.  So, a successful holiday all things considered.  (Next year I might ask for a cure for cancer, solution to poverty, and end to war instead just to see how the world is with that).

* Person(s) in another thread, obviously not you folks here
-ish.


----------



## Cadence

So, harsh terms are ok about the pizzeria owner but not the customer?


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## MarkB

trappedslider said:


>



This feels like a comic that won't age well. If some of those are fake now, they'll probably be real sooner or later.


----------



## CleverNickName

MarkB said:


> This feels like a comic that won't age well. If some of those are fake now, they'll probably be real sooner or later.



And vice-versa:  folks have already forgotten about ICQ and MySpace... it won't be long until Twitter and PayPal share the same fate.


----------



## trappedslider

MarkB said:


> This feels like a comic that won't age well. If some of those are fake now, they'll probably be real sooner or later.



the title text:  One good trick, if you get called on a fake service, is to build a working version of it and mention it again the next week.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> And vice-versa:  folks have already forgotten about ICQ and MySpace... it won't be long until Twitter and PayPal share the same fate.



Define forgotten? 









						What Ever Happened to ICQ?
					

ICQ, short for the phrase "I Seek You," laid the groundwork for standalone instant messaging clients when it arrived in November 1996. Think about how long ago...




					www.techspot.com
				









						Featured Content on Myspace
					

Featured Content on Myspace




					myspace.com
				




If you mean no longer top dog for what they do then forums like this one are forgotten in favor of Reddit and discord.


----------



## Asisreo

trappedslider said:


>



Surprised food.net slipped by these imaginary stick figures. That name stuck out to me more than yahoo cash honestly.


----------



## Cadence

Glad to see so many folks got new pairs of cranky pants from the man in red this year  

:-/


----------



## Scribe

Cadence said:


> Glad to see so many folks got new pairs of cranky pants from the man in red this year
> 
> :-/




Lets be honest, holiday's are tough.


----------



## trappedslider

I thought about making a joke, but then I realized it wouldn't age well because time keeps marching on and things keep changing and instead of just finding humor at the moment the joke should stand the test of time and always be funny.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Finding bigots on this site is apparently really easy. You just need to make a thread about the new direction of D&D, and they start crawling out of the woodwork to whine about how younger players are stupid and ruining the game. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, they don't get banned for posting bigoted content. Even though it's pretty easy to tell who they are.


----------



## Cadence

Scribe said:


> Lets be honest, holiday's are tough.




I wish I had any faith that another week or month to recover from the holiday would change most of it!  But I definitely hope everyone who had a rough holiday season finds a new year full of games and gaming groups to help with the recovery, and that the rest of life cooperates enough to let it happen.


----------



## Cadence

"If you're going to be that way, then based on _your_ comments I have my doubts _you_'ve ever actually had what the rest of the planet calls pizza or what is commonly known as pineapple, and I demand you show proof before making the rest of us out up with more of your arrogant, insipid drivel." <- I guess this is what we're supposed to use the ignore button for instead of posting.


----------



## MarkB

Cadence said:


> "If you're going to be that way, then based on _your_ comments I have my doubts _you_'ve ever actually had what the rest of the planet calls pizza or what is commonly known as pineapple, and I demand you show proof before making the rest of us out up with more of your arrogant, insipid drivel." <- I guess this is what we're supposed to use the ignore button for instead of posting.



Tough to do sometimes, but it works out better.


----------



## CleverNickName

If you're so concerned about the way _other people _play D&D that you yourself can no longer enjoy playing D&D, I  really don't know what to tell you.  I'm not sure how that can be fixed.  Maybe you should just...leave?  Leave the conversation, leave the thread, leave the forums, leave the hobby...whatever it takes.  Clearly it's making you miserable, and I think you could be happier elsewhere.


----------



## trappedslider

_generic passive aggressive comment here_


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> _generic passive aggressive comment here_



Are you trying to pass as Canadian?


----------



## payn

This fella self owns at a comically high rate.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Are you trying to pass as Canadian?



No,if i were doing that i would have said sorry


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> _generic passive aggressive comment here_




 Like this?


----------



## Jahydin

CleverNickName said:


> If you're so concerned about the way _other people _play D&D that you yourself can no longer enjoy playing D&D, I  really don't know what to tell you.  I'm not sure how that can be fixed.  Maybe you should just...leave?  Leave the conversation, leave the thread, leave the forums, leave the hobby...whatever it takes.  Clearly it's making you miserable, and I think you could be happier elsewhere.



That used to be me. Agreed people need to move on. I don't like "Reality TV", so why on earth would I spend time on a Kardashian forum offering advice on how to make their show better? This vision of D&D is so painfully not for me, it really is the same situation, so why waste the time?

I think it comes from over 30 years of this being my game of choice. But just like I can enjoy my LotR books/movies without ever acknowledging Rings of Power, so can I do the same with D&D.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

What’s in the box?







A. More nuts. 
B. The severed head of a bard. 
C. A better drink than what you’re having. 
D. The One True Way to play D&D (no, I’m not sharing). 
E. The slice of pineapple pizza I slapped out of a passing person’s mouth.


----------



## trappedslider

Why do people have to apply objective definitions to something subjective?


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> Why do people have to apply objective definitions to something subjective?



Someone has to be right right, yo!


----------



## payn

"Bobby D sold gloves, Baldurs Gate City. And everyday he'd pray for inclement weather or a transfer where the dungeon chest all had contact poison" didn't roll off the tongue when Ramsay wrote his song.


----------



## Cadence

13yo: "I wish I had the alternate covers for all my books."

Me: "The new revision comes out on 2024."

13yo: "That gives us time to update our campaign."

Me: "It's just an update, so you can use the old ones still."

13yo: "Oh, so like a 5.5."


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> 13yo: "I wish I had the alternate covers for all my books."
> 
> Me: "The new revision comes out on 2024."
> 
> 13yo: "That gives us time to update our campaign."
> 
> Me: "It's just an update, so you can use the old ones still."
> 
> 13yo: "Oh, so like a 5.5."



ENWORLD: It aint no .5! There are no editions anymore its just D&D!!!


----------



## Cadence

In any case, is the voice over OG version the best way to see it the first time and the worst way for rewatching?


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> In any case, is the voice over OG version the best way to see it the first time and the worst way for rewatching?



Depends, some like the film noir detective feel of the narration, others feel like its akin to a laugh track letting the audience know what to think and feel. Answer could also be never, or always.


----------



## Cadence

The Fat Man/Man in Red brought the 13yo a pizza cutting axe.  I doubt we will ever find out if it works on pineapple.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Depends, some like the film noir detective feel of the narration, others feel like its akin to a laugh track letting the audience know what to think and feel. Answer could also be never, or always.




I've wondered if the later versions don't fill many viewers in on enough of what's going on.

If we had some artificial people whose memories we could wipe we could try it both ways...


----------



## dragoner

Maybe people don't pay enough attention the first time.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> I've wondered if the later versions don't fill many viewers in on enough of what's going on.
> 
> If we had some artificial people whose memories we could wipe we could try it both ways...



Not sure if BR and the narration bit was signs of American society becoming a low context communication one, or proof that it was already one?


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Not sure if BR and the narration bit was signs of American society becoming a low context communication one, or proof that it was already one?




Warning: Blade Runner Spoilers 









						Blade Runner's Ending Wasn't The Only Reason Harrison Ford Hated His Voiceovers - /Film
					

They really are terrible, though.




					www.slashfilm.com
				





What are the big movies from then or earlier that have both no narration and as little exposition by the characters? (Asks the person who has seen embarrassingly few old movies).


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## CleverNickName

Your periodic reminder that the DM is allowed to enjoy D&D also.  Give them all of the flexibility, cooperation, and creative space for their campaign setting that you expect for your character.  Emphasis on "flexibility" and "cooperation."


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> What are the big movies from then or earlier that have both no narration and as little exposition by the characters? (Asks the person who has seen embarrassingly few old movies).




The first comparison I can think of is 2001: A Space Odyssey, which has plenty of exposition in the form of abstract visuals and people talking rather than voice over.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> The first comparison I can think of is 2001: A Space Odyssey, which has plenty of exposition in the form of abstract visuals and people talking rather than voice over.



Am I remembering right that Blade Runner doesn't particularly have much dialogue?  In either case, is 2001 about the same amount? (One of the many classics I haven't seen).


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> Am I remembering right that Blade Runner doesn't particularly have much dialogue?  In either case, is 2001 about the same amount? (One of the many classics I haven't seen).




Generally, I would say yes. It's been years since I saw either. I would guess that 2001 had both more dialogue, but also longer silent sections. It also has stretches where the dialogue is with a disembodied computer, which makes it hard to compare.


----------



## trappedslider

Is there a singular word for "reverse intellectual snobbery" ?


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> Is there a singular word for "reverse intellectual snobbery" ?



"Anti-intellectualism?"


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Is there a singular word for "reverse intellectual snobbery" ?



Anti-Intellectualism.


----------



## Ryujin

prabe said:


> "Anti-intellectualism?"



Is that a "punch buggy" moment, or a "Jinx!" moment?


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> "Anti-intellectualism?"






Ryujin said:


> Anti-Intellectualism.



And is there a singular word for "intellectual snobbery"

I'm asking because today I've encountered both in different parts of the internet.


----------



## prabe

Ryujin said:


> Is that a "punch buggy" moment, or a "Jinx!" moment?



Jinx, I think. At least, that's what my laughter was about. Well, that and the structure of it: This? This.


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> And is there a singular word for "intellectual snobbery"
> 
> I'm asking because today I've encountered both in different parts of the internet.



If it's about showing off knowledge and/or vocabulary, it's probably pedantry. Otherwise it's probably just snobbery.

Am I being a pedant in answering your question?


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Is that a "punch buggy" moment, or a "Jinx!" moment?



Is "punch buggy" the same as "slug bug" (which is rarer and rarer with fewer VW bugs on the road).


----------



## MarkB

trappedslider said:


> And is there a singular word for "intellectual snobbery"
> 
> I'm asking because today I've encountered both in different parts of the internet.



Condescension.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> Warning: Blade Runner Spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blade Runner's Ending Wasn't The Only Reason Harrison Ford Hated His Voiceovers - /Film
> 
> 
> They really are terrible, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.slashfilm.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are the big movies from then or earlier that have both no narration and as little exposition by the characters? (Asks the person who has seen embarrassingly few old movies).



Own thread territory but here is a great paper on it.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> And is there a singular word for "intellectual snobbery"
> 
> I'm asking because today I've encountered both in different parts of the internet.



I think that I'd go with "elitism."


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Is "punch buggy" the same as "slug bug" (which is rarer and rarer with fewer VW bugs on the road).



Yes, same idea.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> Yes, same idea.




Jinx seems very different so I was confused, unless it was analogizing to deciding whether the slugbug call was simultaneous or not (which I hadn't thought of until just now).


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> Jinx seems very different so I was confused, unless it was analogizing to deciding whether the slugbug call was simultaneous or not (which I hadn't thought of until just now).



I think the question was whether we were playing a punch-buggy-type game, or if we'd just had the same idea at the same time.


----------



## CleverNickName

Ah yes, another argument about "player agency."  One of my favorite topics.  These are always fun.


----------



## Mad_Jack

trappedslider said:


> And is there a singular word for "intellectual snobbery"
> 
> I'm asking because today I've encountered both in different parts of the internet.




 I'm pretty sure I've witnessed both in the same post on a couple of occasions.


----------



## Mannahnin

Cadence said:


> What are the big movies from then or earlier that have both no narration and as little exposition by the characters? (Asks the person who has seen embarrassingly few old movies).



That's an interesting question.

I would say the main reason Blade Runner has it is that it was a staple of film noir-style detective stories.  The detective narrating his thoughts in first person was a standard trope.


----------



## payn

Mannahnin said:


> That's an interesting question.
> 
> I would say the main reason Blade Runner has it is that it was a staple of film noir-style detective stories.  The detective narrating his thoughts in first person was a standard trope.



It was added after the film was made. Focus groups were apparently confused.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> It was added after the film was made. Focus groups were apparently confused.



But being confused is part of the point of reading Dick, innit? I mean ... delusional mental illness combined with intensive drug use makes for inventive prose but incoherent stories.


----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> It was added after the film was made. Focus groups were apparently confused.




I thought I read the original script had one, they decided not to use it and adjusted not to need it, and then added a different (not particularly good one) in after the focus groups?


----------



## payn

Folks get adversarial when calling folks adversarial GMs.


----------



## billd91

Gosh, I'd never have expected *THAT* thread to become so tedious I had to Unwatch it.


----------



## dragoner

prabe said:


> But being confused is part of the point of reading Dick, innit? I mean ... delusional mental illness combined with intensive drug use makes for inventive prose but incoherent stories.



One can also add to it some disturbing views in general. He wrote regular fiction that wasn't so great, reading it, it was like where is the twist? I used to buy his books from a SF/Fantasy bookstore by Ashby Bart in Berkeley, where I think the owner had a connection with the PKD society.


----------



## trappedslider

Mad_Jack said:


> I'm pretty sure I've witnessed both in the same post on a couple of occasions.



Sadly,, one of the rpg forums i interact on leans toward being snobbish


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> Sadly,, one of the rpg forums i interact on leans toward being snobbish



Only the one?


----------



## CleverNickName

From what I can tell, after a brief stroll through a handful of forums on Reddit:

I've been happily playing D&D "wrong" for most of my life, and I have nothing but good friends and fond memories to show for it.  The joke's on me, I guess.


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> From what I can tell, after a brief stroll through a handful of forums on Reddit:
> 
> I've been happily playing D&D "wrong" for most of my life, and I have nothing but good friends and fond memories to show for it.  The joke's on me, I guess.



Well how dare you not crush your enemies and drink Mountain Dew from their skulls?


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> Only the one?



yeah, the others tend to be in the middle of the snobbish and Anti-intellectualism scales.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Well how dare you not crush your enemies and drink Mountain Dew from their skulls?



It was ONE TIME and it was a bet and it was Baja mountain dew btw


----------



## darjr

Oh Reddit.


----------



## Asisreo

CleverNickName said:


> From what I can tell, after a brief stroll through a handful of forums on Reddit:
> 
> I've been happily playing D&D "wrong" for most of my life, and I have nothing but good friends and fond memories to show for it.  The joke's on me, I guess.



It's funny how you can tell which ones on reddit have actually played the game an extensive amount of time and they're never the ones to get upvotes. 

They use a term on reddit making fun of their hiveminded nature, and the D&D forums are the epitome of those terms.


----------



## South by Southwest

There is no jargon I would ever _prefer_ to use.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> Well how dare you not crush your enemies and drink Mountain Dew from their skulls?




 Because my ranger's favored enemies are all invertebrates?


----------



## trappedslider

Why as nerds are we snobbish?


----------



## Deset Gled

trappedslider said:


> Why as nerds are we snobbish?




Its not just the nerds.  It's pervasive across the internet.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> Why as nerds are we snobbish?




Anybody acting dumber than me is a mouth-breathing moron who needs to shut their piehole, and anyone acting smarter than me is a pretentious snob who needs to understand their fancy book-learnin’ nerdery don’t amount to Jack or Squat.


----------



## trappedslider

Deset Gled said:


> Its not just the nerds.  It's pervasive across the internet.



Well, since i hang around nerds more than non-nerds I see that side more than others.


----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Anybody acting dumber than me is a mouth-breathing moron who needs to shut their piehole, and anyone acting smarter than me is a pretentious snob who needs to understand their fancy book-learnin’ nerdery don’t amount to Jack or Squat.



"Ever notice?  When you're driving, anyone driving faster than you is a maniac and everyone driving slower is a moron!"
-George Carlin


----------



## AnotherGuy

trappedslider said:


> Why as nerds are we snobbish?



Too much intelligence, not enough wisdom.


----------



## AnotherGuy

I've only ever used reddit to mine for ideas for a particular module/AP or for searching up rules queries and its decent for that.
The entire interface seem messy to me, but then again I have not spent any time trying to understand how things are ordered on that platform.
I just google search and go straight to the thread I'm interested in.


----------



## Cadence

AnotherGuy said:


> Too much intelligence, not enough wisdom.



Wisdom, as in perception + willpower + clericiness?  Is that the ability to stay awake seeing everything on the internet and believing it?  Feels like that's covered  by a lot of folks!


----------



## MarkB

AnotherGuy said:


> I've only ever used reddit to mine for ideas for a particular module/AP or for searching up rules queries and its decent for that.
> The entire interface seem messy to me, but then again I have not spent any time trying to understand how things are ordered on that platform.
> I just google search and go straight to the thread I'm interested in.



I went through a period of really enthusiastically using Reddit for discussions, but its popularity-contest nature just put me off in the end. I realised that, regardless of whether I was posting a comment or a new topic, I was going for the funniest / most popular option regardless of the subject, because the only way to keep them visible was to go for those upvotes. I soon lost my enthusiasm after that, and stuck to more conventional forums thereafter.


----------



## trappedslider

MarkB said:


> I went through a period of really enthusiastically using Reddit for discussions, but its popularity-contest nature just put me off in the end. I realised that, regardless of whether I was posting a comment or a new topic, I was going for the funniest / most popular option regardless of the subject, because the only way to keep them visible was to go for those upvotes. I soon lost my enthusiasm after that, and stuck to more conventional forums thereafter.



I use it to keep up with some of the games I play and forums like a lot of older things are slowly dying. Discord and Reddit are/have taken over for a number of companies in terms of public outreach.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

AnotherGuy said:


> Too much intelligence, not enough wisdom.



And frequently charisma as a dump stat.


----------



## payn




----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> And frequently charisma as a dump stat.



But the disadvantages i picked will balance that out at some point right?


----------



## billd91

Well, I'm not going near *that* thread with a 10 foot pole - or an 11 foot one for that matter.


----------



## trappedslider

billd91 said:


> Well, I'm not going near *that* thread with a 10 foot pole - or an 11 foot one for that matter.



the one i just made about Florida man vs an aussie?


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> But the disadvantages i picked will balance that out at some point right?



Just stick to the internets and never bother people in person. Im sure it will work out.


----------



## CleverNickName

Fellow gamers, I now present the funniest tweet of Year 2022:


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> Fellow gamers, I now present the funniest tweet of Year 2022:
> 
> View attachment 270838



When you are so stuck on bragging about your stuff, you forget that national police are looking for you


----------



## Malmuria

I didn't comment in the other thread but then I made my own thread.  Not-commenting #fail


----------



## trappedslider

80% of the ocean hasn’t been explored. For all we know there could be a Dollar General down there.


----------



## payn

Oh I see a missed a few posts in the thread today...oh no I missed a few pages of posts...


----------



## Cadence

I'm not sure to you've made it clear enough in your previous 10 replies.  Could you try saying it again the same way?


----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


> 80% of the ocean hasn’t been explored. For all we know there could be a Dollar General down there.



Fun fact: The average Dollar General contains more random plastic crap than the great Pacific Garbage Patch.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> 80% of the ocean hasn’t been explored. For all we know there could be a Dollar General down there.



They'd first have to take over Starbucks' lease.


----------



## billd91

trappedslider said:


> 80% of the ocean hasn’t been explored. For all we know there could be a Dollar General down there.



Wouldn’t that be a Dollar Admiral? Being nautical and all…


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> I'm not sure to you've made it clear enough in your previous 10 replies.  Could you try saying it again the same way?



Well you still disagree with me, so _obviously _you want me to keep repeating myself.  Just let me know when you're finally ready to agree with me, and I'll move on.


----------



## Hussar

CleverNickName said:


> Well you still disagree with me, so _obviously _you want me to keep repeating myself.  Just let me know when you're finally ready to agree with me, and I'll move on.



Oy, my ears are burning.    Disengaging can be _so hard_ sometimes.


----------



## Cadence

I could swear most things weren't well described by binary categories...


----------



## MarkB

Cadence said:


> I could swear most things weren't well described by binary categories...



But some are? So, what you're saying is that there are two kinds of things...


----------



## trappedslider

Just because it was part of your childhood doesn't mean it's sacrosaint.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Just because it was part of your childhood doesn't mean it's sacrosaint.



True enough, but it can inform reactions to something.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> True enough, but it can inform reactions to something.



nostalgia ain't what it used to be


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


>



I was watching TV while making lunch, today, and the first John Wick movie was on. It was a sanitized version. John Wick wakes up, gets clocked a couple of times, and his car is stolen. Next thing you know he's burying a box in the back yard, for some reason. The dog isn't shown through the whole incident and the only thing telling you that they killed the dog, is when he tosses the collar on the bedside table.


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> I was watching TV while making lunch, today, and the first John Wick movie was on. It was a sanitized version. John Wick wakes up, gets clocked a couple of times, and his car is stolen. Next thing you know he's burying a box in the back yard, for some reason. The dog isn't shown through the whole incident and the only thing telling you that they killed the dog, is when he tosses the collar on the bedside table.



I wonder what John Wick does to people who censor his dog. Whatever it is, you probably can't show it on network TV.


----------



## Aeson

Sometimes I feel the urge to watch a John Wick movie. I then go take a  and feel better.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> I was watching TV while making lunch, today, and the first John Wick movie was on. It was a sanitized version. John Wick wakes up, gets clocked a couple of times, and his car is stolen. Next thing you know he's burying a box in the back yard, for some reason. The dog isn't shown through the whole incident and the only thing telling you that they killed the dog, is when he tosses the collar on the bedside table.



"I really love my dog"
"Oh yeah, would you swear vengeance on any who hurt or kill it?"


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## trappedslider




----------



## J.Quondam

trappedslider said:


>



... which just proves that all those times a hill giant picked up the party gnome and used him to beat the party bard to death was a pretty realistic scenario.


----------



## Mad_Jack

J.Quondam said:


> ... which just proves that all those times a hill giant picked up the party gnome and used him to beat the party bard to death was a pretty realistic scenario.




 What was that 4E saying? The barbarian swings a sword, and the warlord swings the barbarian?

If you had a Talenta halfling barbarian and a warlord with a _belt of storm giant strength_, that could actually happen...


----------



## Mad_Jack

If somebody in Australia dies at 12:01 on 1/1/23, but it's still 7 Pm on 12/31/22 here, does that mean that they're not actually dead yet for me? Can I still talk to them for another five hours?


----------



## payn

Lol John Wick the millennial Stephen Segal


----------



## MarkB

Mad_Jack said:


> If somebody in Australia dies at 12:01 on 1/1/23, but it's still 7 Pm on 12/31/22 here, does that mean that they're not actually dead yet for me? Can I still talk to them for another five hours?



You can talk to them for as long as you like.


----------



## Mad_Jack

MarkB said:


> You can talk to them for as long as you like.




 But what if they keep answering me for the next couple hours? lol


----------



## MarkB

Mad_Jack said:


> But what if they keep answering me for the next couple hours? lol



Don't sell them life insurance.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I really did not expect to spend New Years Eve trying to get a bat out of the house.


----------



## Aeson

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> I really did not expect to spend New Years Eve trying to get a bat out of the house.



That's no way to talk about your mother in law.


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> Lol John Wick the millennial Stephen Segal



I'd rather watch Under Siege than John Wick.


----------



## Ryujin

Aeson said:


> I'd rather watch Under Siege than John Wick.



I would say that john Wick has the better fight choreography but, on the other hand, Under Siege has the cake scene.

... unless you're watching it on TBS.


----------



## Cadence

Just because something is tasty to eat doesn't make it pizza (let alone tasty pizza).  That you really like it still doesn't make it pizza. Neither does you bringing it up in every single thread.


----------



## Cadence

I was going to mock the complaint that Pizza Hut has too many choices of crusts, sauces, and toppings and it's too much work to exercise any restraint and just pretend they aren't all offered...

... but then I remember the time I was at a meat and three restaurant with my mom and other half and they had to decide what to order.


----------



## trappedslider

Is it too late to change the title to "passive aggressiveness about other threads without naming them"?


----------



## Cadence

"pizza aggressive ..."


----------



## overgeeked

The gunfire is mixed with explosives and fireworks. It must be midnight.


----------



## Aeson

overgeeked said:


> The gunfire is mixed with explosives and fireworks. It must be midnight.



You must have been where I was at midnight. I wondered if I needed to tuck and roll for cover.

Here we had two things to celebrate at midnight. Georgia won The Peach Bowl exactly at midnight.
SUCK IT Ohio State!!!


----------



## Art Waring

CleverNickName said:


> Well you still disagree with me, so _obviously _you want me to keep repeating myself.  Just let me know when you're finally ready to agree with me, and I'll move on.



Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed, and at the end of the day we are all still here.


----------



## Cadence

Cadence said:


> Also, Elrond is the sheep dog Rex in Babe.



And Red Skull and V!?!?


----------



## overgeeked

Post: “1+1=2.”

Chorus of responses: “No it doesn’t!” “You can’t prove it!” “How dare you!”

Sigh.


----------



## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> Post: “1+1=2.”
> 
> Chorus of responses: “No it doesn’t!” “You can’t prove it!” “How dare you!”
> 
> Sigh.



I mean, that's a controversial take. I follow the (computer) science, which proves that 1+1=1.99999... But, sure, go ahead and believe what you want! I'm not the boss of you, I can't correct you if you insist on being wrong!


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> I mean, that's a controversial take. I follow the (computer) science, which proves that 1+1=1.99999... But, sure, go ahead and believe what you want! I'm not the boss of you, I can't correct you if you insist on being wrong!



In Computer, 1+1=10.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Ryujin said:


> In Computer, 1+1=10.




 If you're going by the Roman numerals, 1+1=11...


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> If you're going by the Roman numerals, 1+1=11...




Well, technically, no. 
The _Arabic_ number "1" is not a Roman numeral.
And the "+" and "=" signs used in the modern arithmetic sense didn't come about until the 1500s, and so would not be part of arithmetic with Roman numerals.


----------



## Aeson

You got mathplained.


----------



## Cadence

I had know they switched to 5p.


----------



## Galandris

Totally unrelated to anything but it was vaguely discussed in another thread I can't find...

It was about whether Common was English and how languages affects plot.

I just saw an episodes of the series where a woman is shot while she was filming herself with her mobile. The assassin isn't filmed but she says before being shot something like "Who are you? That's you, Marvin?". And the team is puzzled because said Marvin was supposed to be a child and they wondered what she had seen and went on to look for the child.

The problem is that "you" is translated differently in French in familiar and less familiar speech. And the translator chose to have the victim use the formal form, so it was evident she saw an adult. And half the episode is spent, for the audience, wondering why they don't just say "if it was a child, she would have said _tu_ not _vous"_ so why are they just not looking for an adult...


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## trappedslider

If you're going to talk about an article you read a link to the article would be nice


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## payn

Yikes, just including a diverse cast seems to be considered political for some folks here...


----------



## billd91

payn said:


> Yikes, just including a diverse cast seems to be considered political for some folks here...



Pretty much what I was concerned about given some statements being made.


----------



## RealAlHazred

I'm still really shaken up by Darren Watts' passing. I knew him fairly well, moved in some of the same gaming circles, and he was exactly one month older than I. And it was a nightmare for his family.


----------



## Mannahnin

RealAlHazred said:


> I'm still really shaken up by Darren Watts' passing. I knew him fairly well, moved in some of the same gaming circles, and he was exactly one month older than I. And it was a nightmare for his family.



I'm sorry for your loss.  

May those who loved him be comforted.  And their memories be lasting, and full of joy, in time.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Mannahnin said:


> I'm sorry for your loss.
> 
> May those who loved him be comforted.  And their memories be lasting, and full of joy, in time.



I only wish I could leave the same legacy. He ran dozens of panels at conventions, explaining how to write and sell games. As president of Indie Press Revolution, he gave a start to a lot of current industry writers. He left a long shadow.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> Yikes, just including a diverse cast seems to be considered political for some folks here...



Unfortunately, that's also what is out in the wild when it comes to criticisms of many shows/movies. If it doesn't serve the personal desires and agenda of some, then it's automatically "political."


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> Unfortunately, that's also what is out in the wild when it comes to criticisms of many shows/movies. If it doesn't serve the personal desires and agenda of some, then it's automatically "political."



_Everything_ is political. We just more easily ignore that fact when the politics on display happens to agree with our politics.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> _Everything_ is political. We just more easily ignore that fact when the politics on display happens to agree with our politics.



I find it hard to believe that my (actual, not metaphorical) appreciation of pineapple on pizza is political.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> I find it hard to believe that my (actual, not metaphorical) appreciation of pineapple on pizza is political.



Likely because you haven’t looked into the production chain of growing, harvesting, processing, canning, and distribution of pineapple. Or you largely agree with the politics involved and so it’s easy to ignore said politics.


----------



## Ryujin

overgeeked said:


> Likely because you haven’t looked into the production chain of growing, harvesting, processing, canning, and distribution of pineapple. Or you largely agree with the politics involved and so it’s easy to ignore said politics.



Probably because it doesn't have an impact upon me, so the politics you hint at are, to me, not.


----------



## overgeeked

Ryujin said:


> Probably because it doesn't have an impact upon me, so the politics you hint at are, to me, not.



Ah. The third option. It doesn’t directly affect me, so it’s not my problem and therefore doesn’t matter.


----------



## Mannahnin

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here!  This is the War Room!"


----------



## Scribe

Wild to watch someone get told they are wrong, when if what they were 'wrong' about was something else, every person doing so would be infracted.

2023 begins.


----------



## overgeeked

Mannahnin said:


> "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here!  This is the War Room!"



I think that might be one of my top 5 perfect movies.


----------



## RealAlHazred

"Gentlemen. gentlemen, let's you and him fight!"


----------



## Ryujin

Mannahnin said:


> "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here!  This is the War Room!"


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> Likely because you haven’t looked into the production chain of growing, harvesting, processing, canning, and distribution of pineapple.



Oh, man, the Dole company is _bad_, as is what the US did to Hawai'i on its behalf.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

ENWorld really needs to start showing those therapy ads for threads over five pages in length. We've got folks with some _stuff_ to unpack.


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> ENWorld really needs to start showing those therapy ads for threads over five pages in length. We've got folks with some _stuff_ to unpack.


----------



## Umbran

overgeeked said:


> Likely because you haven’t looked into the production chain of growing, harvesting, processing, canning, and distribution of pineapple.




If you are intent on making the term "political" meaningless, this is a good direction to take.


----------



## Gradine

It's that level of hyperbole that makes "everything is political" a less useful term, even if there is a kernel of truth in it. "The personal is political" is a little more accurate, more powerful. 

What's more useless, more meaningless, is the declaring anything that doesn't personally impact them is apolitical. If something is political to me and not to thee, then it is in my best interest to impress upon thee just important it is to see it as political to them as well. That's the foundation of empathy, which is a pretty key ingredient in social progress, especially when a minoritized population is involved.


----------



## MarkB

Gradine said:


> It's that level of hyperbole that makes "everything is political" a less useful term, even if there is a kernel of truth in it. "The personal is political" is a little more accurate, more powerful.
> 
> What's more useless, more meaningless, is the declaring anything that doesn't personally impact them is apolitical. If something is political to me and not to thee, then it is in my best interest to impress upon thee just important it is to see it as political to them as well. That's the foundation of empathy, which is a pretty key ingredient in social progress, especially when a minoritized population is involved.



That's not empathising with others, though. It's demanding that they empathise with you, without necessarily demonstrating any commitment to reciprocate.

And it makes the whole thing truly meaningless, because there's pretty much nothing that isn't going to personally impact somebody, somewhere. Which brings us right back around to "everything is political".


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Gradine

MarkB said:


> That's not empathising with others, though. It's demanding that they empathise with you, without necessarily demonstrating any commitment to reciprocate.



Couple of things;
1) If I face an oppression that most people don't have to deal with and can easily ignore, you're god damn better believe I'm going to insist you empathize with what I'm going through.
2) Human empathy, anti-oppression... these are not transactional, zero-sum issues. You should _want _me to be able to have the same quality of life as you, and if I _don't_, and you can have a role, however slight, in fixing that, _you should do it. _Because they damn sure would do the same for you, every single time. The idea that empathy requires a commitment to reciprocation... _that's not actual empathy! _It's quid pro quo. If you need something, anything, in return to _empathize _with somebody... you aren't really empathizing, are you?


----------



## CleverNickName

MarkB said:


> And it makes the whole thing truly meaningless, because there's pretty much nothing that isn't going to personally impact somebody, somewhere. Which brings us right back around to "everything is political".



I don't even know where to begin with this.  I typed stuff, backspaced over it, retyped, backspaced, and then walked away for a bit, only to see that @Gradine had my sentiments covered.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

I wonder if Mark Zuckerberg sent Elon Musk a fruit basket for taking the heat off of him.

Remember when Facebook was the worst social media network? Who knew those were the good old days?


----------



## Cadence

< insert something someplace about punching down being meh at best >


----------



## MarkB

Gradine said:


> Couple of things;
> 1) If I face an oppression that most people don't have to deal with and can easily ignore, you're god damn better believe I'm going to insist you empathize with what I'm going through.
> 2) Human empathy, anti-oppression... these are not transactional, zero-sum issues. You should _want _me to be able to have the same quality of life as you, and if I _don't_, and you can have a role, however slight, in fixing that, _you should do it. _Because they damn sure would do the same for you, every single time. The idea that empathy requires a commitment to reciprocation... _that's not actual empathy! _It's quid pro quo. If you need something, anything, in return to _empathize _with somebody... you aren't really empathizing, are you?
> 
> e: Thanks to the peanut gallery for making my point



You're approaching this from the assumption that the one asking for empathy from the others is oppressed. But it's just as often the other way around - the oppressors demanding that everyone else empathise with them and stop pushing their 'liberal agendas' upon them.

If the thing that someone else is asking you to fix is something you believe isn't broken, do you still maintain that _you should do it_?


----------



## billd91

MarkB said:


> You're approaching this from the assumption that the one asking for empathy from the others is oppressed. But it's just as often the other way around - the oppressors demanding that everyone else empathise with them and stop pushing their 'liberal agendas' upon them.
> 
> If the thing that someone else is asking you to fix is something you believe isn't broken, do you still maintain that _you should do it_?



I can empathize with someone finding things difficult or stressful whether their assessment of the situation is right or not or whether or not they're oppressed.
And whether or not something is broken may not be dependent on me correctly assessing it as so. People who benefit from systems of oppression rarely feel the situation is broken... unless they've managed to develop empathy for the people oppressed by those systems.


----------



## Gradine

MarkB said:


> You're approaching this from the assumption that the one asking for empathy from the others is oppressed. But it's just as often the other way around - the oppressors demanding that everyone else empathise with them and stop pushing their 'liberal agendas' upon them.
> 
> If the thing that someone else is asking you to fix is something you believe isn't broken, do you still maintain that _you should do it_?



Do you need someone to help you tell the difference between worthy causes and actual oppression and grifters and bad actors? It's usually not that difficult to tell the difference. There are exceptions of course, where there are gray areas and serious research is needed; I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers myself. But I'm going to guess you can tell the difference with "Please empathize with me, systemic racism is endemic to the structures of our society and I am directly suffering from it" and "Please empathize with me, they're trying to replace white people". To say that the fact that the latter happens disqualifies the benefits if not outright necessity of the former is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> You're approaching this from the assumption that the one asking for empathy from the others is oppressed. But it's just as often the other way around - the oppressors demanding that everyone else empathise with them and stop pushing their 'liberal agendas' upon them.
> 
> If the thing that someone else is asking you to fix is something you believe isn't broken, do you still maintain that _you should do it_?



Damn. I was going to agree with you and then expand, but I was getting too political. Post deleted in favour of simple agreement.


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> Damn. I was going to agree with you and then expand, but I was getting too political. Post deleted in favour of simple agreement.



Yeah, it's tricky to discuss whether there's any such thing as 'political' without getting too political. Suffice to say, there's a difference between empathising with someone's concern and agreeing with their position. But my initial statement was maybe reading too much into @Gradine 's message, and it wasn't fair of me to use their post as a springboard for that statement.


----------



## Gradine

MarkB said:


> Yeah, it's tricky to discuss whether there's any such thing as 'political' without getting too political. Suffice to say, there's a difference between empathising with someone's concern and agreeing with their position. But my initial statement was maybe reading too much into @Gradine 's message, and it wasn't fair of me to use their post as a springboard for that statement.



That's fair. My own assumption was that we were all here pretty much in agreement over which struggles are worth empathizing over, which is a dicey assumption to make on any internet forum, even this one!


----------



## Gradine

It's an even dicier assumption after diving through that thread, yikes-a-dikes-a. My ignore list practically tripled by the end of that.


----------



## Umbran

MarkB said:


> But it's just as often the other way around - the oppressors demanding that everyone else empathise with them and stop pushing their 'liberal agendas' upon them.




*Mod Note:*
And now we are into politics as the boards define them, and I'm going to have to ask folks to stop.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Mad_Jack

payn said:


> Yikes, just including a diverse cast seems to be considered political for some folks here...




 I'm sure if you developed an rpg where the entire point of the game is that everyone is playing a copy of the exact same generic safety-yellow plastic cube, someone would immediately begin complaining about representation.


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> I'm sure if you developed an rpg where the entire point of the game is that everyone is playing a copy of the exact same generic safety-yellow plastic cube, someone would immediately begin complaining about representation.



You're right, thats exactly the same.


----------



## Umbran

Mad_Jack said:


> I'm sure if you developed an rpg where the entire point of the game is that everyone is playing a copy of the exact same generic safety-yellow plastic cube, someone would immediately begin complaining about representation.




*Mod Note:*
When a moderator has noted that the discussion has gone too far, and folks should stop, that means they really should stop.

So, please stop.


----------



## Cadence

_Edit: Nothing about the posts upthread of here_

It's ok to just shut up and let it go.


----------



## Hussar

Cadence said:


> _Edit: Nothing about the posts upthread of here_
> 
> It's ok to just shut up and let it go.



Heh, I just reached exactly this point five minutes ago and unwatched a couple of threads.  Funny how that works.


----------



## Galandris

Deleted as it was pertaining to the current discussion.

Maybe this can be kept?



			
				MarkB said:
			
		

> Yeah, it's tricky to discuss whether there's any such thing as 'political' without getting too political.




Especially when something is not political in one country and eminently political in another. In a multicultural board, it is tricky to even notice something is political.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Cadence said:


> _Edit: Nothing about the posts upthread of here_
> 
> It's ok to just shut up and let it go.



I can't believe you would refer to *my *posts in such a manner! They are insightful, brilliant pieces of contemporary art, unsullied by conceits of class and station! I am delivering pearls before swine.

And by swine, I mean RPGPundit.



Galandris said:


> Maybe this can be kept?




I would say, probably not!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

_What, were you expecting Shady? We all think we're Marshall, but we're really Andy. _


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

trappedslider said:


>




I'll assume this is about pineapple winning the species survival poll, because anything else feels like trouble ...


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Galandris said:


> Especially when something is not political in one country and eminently political in another.



No, that's still political.

The point of the criticism -- and this is an argument that comes from the world of arts criticism -- is that "apolitical" works are simply works where the politics aren't apparent to the consumer, since they match their existing worldview. But take that art to another place or time and the politics are very clear. Nearly every bit of work that's said to have "not aged well" is a work that was seen as "apolitical" when it was created, since it matched contemporary politics of that place and time.

Now, that's not the same as saying everything is starting a political _argument_, which is how many people, especially partisans in the U.S., respond to the word "political" nowadays.


----------



## Deset Gled

Y'all are gonna get this thread closed.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I'll assume this is about pineapple winning the species survival poll, because anything else feels like trouble ...




Everyone knows that pineapple cannot win. There can be only ONE winner of that poll.

BEHOLD!

CORN!!!!!!!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Y'all are gonna get this thread closed.




Seriously. I leave for a few weeks, and the thread is overrun by non-pineapple topics and a poster I've blocked?

Keep it together folks! Eyes on the prize! If the thread gets shut down, the Bards win!


----------



## trappedslider

Can one of you come and get your weather,it's in my yard, and i want it gone.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Keep it together folks! Eyes on the prize! If the thread gets shut down, the Bards win!



The Bard's one and only job is to write an award-winning play/musical/book about the adventuring party.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

trappedslider said:


> The Bard's one and only job is to write an award-winning play/musical/book about the adventuring party.




I was always told that the job of the Bard is to determine the depth of the Nyr Dyv, and to keep tossing them in until we got an accurate reading.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I was always told that the job of the Bard is to determine the depth of the Nyr Dyv, and to keep tossing them in until we got an accurate reading.



Given the way that they breed, you'll eventually even fill Nyr Dyv.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

trappedslider said:


> Can one of you come and get your weather,it's in my yard, and i want it gone.



It is _aggressively_ grim weather here. It's hard to believe the days are supposed to be getting longer right now.


----------



## CleverNickName

Sometimes, the rules _aren't_ the problem.  Even the best set of game rules will not keep a jerk from acting like a jerk.


----------



## Scribe

CleverNickName said:


> Sometimes, the rules _aren't_ the problem.  Even the best set of game rules will not keep a jerk from acting like a jerk.




Further, if there is always a problem with x (where x in (players, dms, rules)) then one must consider if the problem is actually within x, and not y.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> Sometimes, the rules _aren't_ the problem.  Even the best set of game rules will not keep a jerk from acting like a jerk.




I often view this as a distinction between Soccer and Football. Or, um, American Gridiron Football and Futbol. Whatever.

The American fear of judgment (and discretion) is best exemplified by the rules of Football, which are currently 245 pages for the NFL- and that doesn't include certain things that are incorporated by reference.  To give you an idea of the type of legalistic verbiage, here is the rule for "Muffs"-

*ARTICLE 6. MUFF. *
A Muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession of it.
_Note: Any ball intentionally muffed forward is a bat and may be a foul (3-3; 12-5-1; 3-15)._
Touching the Ball refers to any contact with the ball. There is no distinction between a player touching the ball with his hands, or with any other part of his body, including his hair, except as specifically provided for (9-2-2).
_Note: The result of the touching is sometimes influenced by the intent or the location._
(a) See 6-1-4 and 6-2-4 for touching a free kick.
(b) See 6-2-3 for touching a free kick before it goes out of bounds between the goal lines.
(c) See 8-1-8 for ineligible offensive player touching a forward pass on, behind, or beyond the line.
(d) See 9-2-1, 9-3-1 for touching a scrimmage kick on or behind the line, and also 9-2-4 for being pushed into a kick by an opponent.
(e) See 11-4-2 for touching a kick during an attempted field goal.
(f) Simultaneous touching by two opponents in an attempt to establish possession of a ball that has been kicked is treated as a first touch by the kicking team.

See? Clear as mud! 

Contrast that with the rules of soccer- FIFA's laws of the game. Once you get past issues of the pitch (the field) and the ball, then the actual rules are minimalistic. The _entire section on direct and indirect free kicks, and the fouls and examples that make them up, consists of less than three pages.  _

It's not the referee has unlimited discretion, but simply that things that are corner cases (what exactly is impeding the progress of an opponent?) are determined by the referee- not mechanistic application of a rule. 

Neither way of doing things is better or worse, but it is _different_. While I use this as an example, it comes up on other areas- the difference in accounting standards/rules (GAAP v. IFRS). The difference in common law decision making as opposed to statutory code. There are a lot of tradeoffs involved. 

But in the end, no set of rules, no matter how detailed, _forces someone to follow the rules_. That's kind of an important point.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I often view this as a distinction between Soccer and Football. Or, um, American Gridiron Football and Futbol. Whatever.
> 
> The American fear of judgment (and discretion) is best exemplified by the rules of Football, which are currently 245 pages for the NFL- and that doesn't include certain things that are incorporated by reference.  To give you an idea of the type of legalistic verbiage, here is the rule for "Muffs"-
> 
> *ARTICLE 6. MUFF. *
> A Muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession of it.
> _Note: Any ball intentionally muffed forward is a bat and may be a foul (3-3; 12-5-1; 3-15)._
> Touching the Ball refers to any contact with the ball. There is no distinction between a player touching the ball with his hands, or with any other part of his body, including his hair, except as specifically provided for (9-2-2).
> _Note: The result of the touching is sometimes influenced by the intent or the location._
> (a) See 6-1-4 and 6-2-4 for touching a free kick.
> (b) See 6-2-3 for touching a free kick before it goes out of bounds between the goal lines.
> (c) See 8-1-8 for ineligible offensive player touching a forward pass on, behind, or beyond the line.
> (d) See 9-2-1, 9-3-1 for touching a scrimmage kick on or behind the line, and also 9-2-4 for being pushed into a kick by an opponent.
> (e) See 11-4-2 for touching a kick during an attempted field goal.
> (f) Simultaneous touching by two opponents in an attempt to establish possession of a ball that has been kicked is treated as a first touch by the kicking team.
> 
> See? Clear as mud!
> 
> Contrast that with the rules of soccer- FIFA's laws of the game. Once you get past issues of the pitch (the field) and the ball, then the actual rules are minimalistic. The _entire section on direct and indirect free kicks, and the fouls and examples that make them up, consists of less than three pages.  _
> 
> It's not the referee has unlimited discretion, but simply that things that are corner cases (what exactly is impeding the progress of an opponent?) are determined by the referee- not mechanistic application of a rule.
> 
> Neither way of doing things is better or worse, but it is _different_. While I use this as an example, it comes up on other areas- the difference in accounting standards/rules (GAAP v. IFRS). The difference in common law decision making as opposed to statutory code. There are a lot of tradeoffs involved.
> 
> But in the end, no set of rules, no matter how detailed, _forces someone to follow the rules_. That's kind of an important point.




I kind of want to see an AI trained on Gygax rewrite the NFL rule book...


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> Sometimes, the rules _aren't_ the problem.  Even the best set of game rules will not keep a jerk from acting like a jerk.




Actually, the best set of game rules typically do include mechanics specifically to handle the case of one player going completely off the walls and screwing things up.  This is where we get things like chess clocks, red/yellow cards in sports games, "mercy kill" rules, etc.  Even the bankruptcy rules in Monopoly are written a way that technically prevents a player from giving away all their property rather that giving it to the owner of the hotel they just landed on.  It's harder for an RPG, but it is possible to build in provisions that prevent... 

...

  I never know how to feel when this thread accidentally slides into legitimate game design discussions.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> I kind of want to see an AI trained on Gygax rewrite the NFL rule book...




_Wait .... how do we know it hasn't been .... already?_
-The first victim of Roko's Basilisk, probably.


----------



## prabe

Cadence said:


> I kind of want to see an AI trained on Gygax rewrite the NFL rule book...



I look forward to how the word "dweomer" will be used, and to some reference to a "quasi-clothoidal inflatable solid" that needs to be moved around the playing surface (which will never be called a "field" because why use one word when two will suffice?).


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 271259



On the one hand, funny.

On the other hand ... people know you can set contacts that bypass Do Not Disturb, yes? And/or allow repeat callers to do so?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Actually, the best set of game rules typically do include mechanics specifically to handle the case of one player going completely off the walls and screwing things up.  This is where we get things like chess clocks, red/yellow cards in sports games, "mercy kill" rules, etc.  Even the bankruptcy rules in Monopoly are written a way that technically prevents a player from giving away all their property rather that giving it to the owner of the hotel they just landed on.  It's harder for an RPG, *but it is possible to build in provisions that prevent...*




Xeno: I'd like to invite you play my new RPG, Achilles!

Achilles: Really? That's ... so nice of you Xeno! Especially after what I did last time.

Xeno: Oh, don't worry. I made a rule for that. See, I can design my way around jerks... um, I can design my way around you, Achilles.

Achilles: .......well, thank you Xeno. I guess I'll have to be a bigger jerk!

Xeno: _oh no ... what have I done?_



The lesson, as always, is that you can have the best rules in the world- even a "No jerk" rule. But there's always a bigger jerk. Because the rules can't enforce themselves.


----------



## trappedslider

prabe said:


> On the one hand, funny.
> 
> On the other hand ... people know you can set contacts that bypass Do Not Disturb, yes? And/or allow repeat callers to do so?


----------



## Bedrockgames

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Xeno: I'd like to invite you play my new RPG, Achilles!
> 
> Achilles: Really? That's ... so nice of you Xeno! Especially after what I did last time.
> 
> Xeno: Oh, don't worry. I made a rule for that. See, I can design my way around jerks... um, I can design my way around you, Achilles.
> 
> Achilles: .......well, thank you Xeno. I guess I'll have to be a bigger jerk!
> 
> Xeno: _oh no ... what have I done?_
> 
> 
> 
> The lesson, as always, is that you can have the best rules in the world- even a "No jerk" rule. But there's always a bigger jerk. Because the rules can't enforce themselves.




The problem with Zeno as GM is his sessions literally take forever


----------



## prabe

trappedslider said:


>



Look, people who want to complain about a tech feature should maybe learn how it works before complaining. Just like people should read the TRPGs they're playing before complaining about *those*.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> Look, people who want to complain about a tech feature should maybe learn how it works before complaining. Just like people should read the TRPGs they're playing before complaining about *those*.




But .... what if I want to complain about the DMG?


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> Actually, the best set of game rules typically do include mechanics specifically to handle the case of one player going completely off the walls and screwing things up.  This is where we get things like chess clocks, red/yellow cards in sports games, "mercy kill" rules, etc.  Even the bankruptcy rules in Monopoly are written a way that technically prevents a player from giving away all their property rather that giving it to the owner of the hotel they just landed on.  It's harder for an RPG, but it is possible to build in provisions that prevent...
> 
> ...
> 
> I never know how to feel when this thread accidentally slides into legitimate game design discussions.




Does it really count as a rule if it's only in the (post 2e) DMG?


----------



## CleverNickName

prabe said:


> Look, people who want to complain about a tech feature should maybe learn how it works before complaining. Just like people should read the TRPGs they're playing before complaining about *those*.



I remember back in 2000, when I picked up a copy of the 3E Player's Handbook for the first time.  I got the early _early _release, the one that had some sample monsters and the CD-ROM in the back.  I had barely even skimmed the first two chapters before I started writing my House Rules to "fix" 3E.






In my defense, that was 23 years ago and I was an insufferable 25-year old know-it-all.  Still, I should have known better.  Step 1 of anything is "read the instructions."


----------



## prabe

Snarf Zagyg said:


> But .... what if I want to complain about the DMG?



Oh, that. Last argument about that I remember seeing, there were people who thought it was inadequate after reading it, and there were people complaining about those other people not reading it, and the conversation spiraled badly. Maybe the best rules are A) read it and B) don't presume someone disagreeing with you didn't read it.

Actually, I think the best rule is to read it and figure it out for yourself and not try to argue with people about it online except in very narrow ways that don't impinge on insulting how other people play. Because _that_ will happen, every time.


----------



## Cadence

prabe said:


> Oh, that. Last argument about that I remember seeing, there were people who thought it was inadequate after reading it, and there were people complaining about those other people not reading it, and the conversation spiraled badly. Maybe the best rules are A) read it and B) don't presume someone disagreeing with you didn't read it.
> 
> Actually, I think the best rule is to read it and figure it out for yourself and not try to argue with people about it online except in very narrow ways that don't impinge on insulting how other people play. Because _that_ will happen, every time.




A: How can you say you don't like pineapple on pizza, you've never tried it!?!?

B: Fine, I'll try it if you try mine.

A: Deal.

A: What is yours by the way...

B:  Aged sunny-side up eggs and mayo.  I mean, you won't know until you try it.


----------



## CleverNickName

Joke's on you, I have eaten months-old eggs before!
(I'm from the American South, and pickled eggs are a thing there.)

EDIT:  This post was much funnier about 2 minutes ago.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Joke's on you, I have eaten months-old eggs before!
> (I'm from the American South, and pickled eggs are a thing there.)



Pickled sunny-side up?
(Would you poach them in pickle juice to get close to that?)


----------



## overgeeked

I know people bend over backwards to be bothered by other people’s perspectives, but damn. I think that’s an Olympic record or something.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> EDIT:  This post was much funnier about 2 minutes ago.




?


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> I know people bend over backwards to be bothered by other people’s perspectives, but damn. I think that’s an Olympic record or something.



I can't believe you killed the Goblin.  _sigh_



Cadence said:


> ?



When I first responded, your post didn't say anything about sunny-side up; it just said "month-old eggs."  But my response aged about as well as, um, fine eggs.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> I can't believe you killed the Goblin.  _sigh_
> 
> 
> When I first responded, your post didn't say anything about sunny-side up; it just said "month-old eggs."  But my response aged about as well as, um, fine eggs.




Doh, sorry!  I thought I edited it in time.


----------



## Deset Gled

Snarf Zagyg said:


> The lesson, as always, is that you can have the best rules in the world- even a "No jerk" rule. But there's always a bigger jerk. Because the rules can't enforce themselves.




Rules that stop a significant number of annoyances and/or problematic playstyles are still useful even if they can't stop you from freaking out and flipping over the game board.  YMMV.


----------



## overgeeked

CleverNickName said:


> I can't believe you killed the Goblin. _sigh_



Again with gamers being surprised by focusing fire and taking out nearly dead targets. I like goblins a whole lot more than most of the other species still in the running. But they were done. It’s a game. Shrug.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Rules that stop a significant number of annoyances and/or problematic playstyles are still useful even if they can't stop you from freaking out and flipping over the game board.  YMMV.




But much like ... um ... content moderation .... this is a topic that's pretty well-known and discussed _even outside of TTRPG circles_.

Wait ... did I say "even outside ...." I meant ESPECIALLY OUTSIDE! 

All rules can have a salutary effect. Like, you know, the many, many, many rules in football. But rules are not costless. This is a fundamental dynamic that is always at play. 

So yes, you can always add more rules to stop annoyances and/or problematic playstyles; but the issue you have to go back to is whether those rules are worth it. And for some people (games, systems, etc.) the accumulation of more rules to handle more situations isn't.


----------



## payn




----------



## CleverNickName

Deset Gled said:


> Rules that stop a significant number of annoyances and/or problematic playstyles are still useful even if they can't stop you from freaking out and flipping over the game board.  YMMV.



It's true, good rules are always nice to have.  They can't stop a jerk from ruining everyone's evening, but they can help the game run more smoothly after the jerk finally gets mad enough to leave.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> It's true, good rules are always nice to have.  They can't stop a jerk from ruining everyone's evening, but they can help the game run more smoothly after the jerk finally gets mad enough to leave.




So you're saying you picked up the gameboard _after _I left?

While I've got your attention- sorry I took a dump on the game. I mean ... literally. That was excessive. In fairness, I didn't see any rule that was stopping me, and the bathroom was too far.


----------



## CleverNickName

overgeeked said:


> Again with gamers being surprised by focusing fire and taking out nearly dead targets. I like goblins a whole lot more than most of the other species still in the running. But they were done. It’s a game. Shrug.



No worries; I was just giving you a hard time.

I expect similar howls of outrage when I kill the gnome in a few days.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

CleverNickName said:


> No worries; I was just giving you a hard time.
> 
> I expect similar howls of outrage when I kill the gnome in a few days.



HEY!


----------



## RealAlHazred

Here's the problem with overly detailed rules dealing with edge cases in D&D.

When you and I play at the table, we don't need those rules. We are perfectly comfortable ruling on-the-spot to take care of the edge cases. Like the FIFA football referees, we see what happened, BOOM, ruling. Done.

However, the corporation that publishes D&D has realized that they sell a lot (like, an obscene amount) of books if they can get a popular Organized Play program going, and then drive the sales with specific adventures. During the 3.5E RPGA era, they had this down to a science. Say, they come out with *Sandstorm*, a book about desert campaigns. It's meh. On it's own, it might sell okay, some people still have nostalgia for Al Qadim, they put some references in there, okay. Fine. However, then they release a season's worth of scenarios in their Living Greyhawk campaign, which has _50,000 active players *worldwide*_, and they use *Sandstorm *extensively. Like, they allow new player options from it (none of which have undergone thorough playtesting), all of the adventures take place in the Bright Lands (a massive desert), they use monsters from it (which have never been in the Bright Lands before), etc. All of the sudden, DMs who had been running Living Greyhawk need to pick up the book, because they need to refer to spells from it (which are new and have never been seen anywhere else). Players need the book because they heard this one prestige class has great synergy with something their character does, and there's this broken magic item in it, and did you see they had rules for _centaur_ characters...

Suddenly, convention organizers need to deal with _thousands of new edge cases._ _Every four months_. And when a DM just makes a ruling on the spot, that isn't specifically spelled out in the rules, the players complain and report the DM. And nobody wants to be blacklisted, because the program puts hundreds or thousands of butts in seats at the convention, and if I want that free DM pass I need to be able to run those games, which I can't do if I've been banned from the program.

It was a very effective marketing program at that time, is what I'm saying, and the rulebooks were being written _specifically _to _try _to address that, is what I believe.

Now, under 5E, they went for a more relaxed set of rules, but they're still pretty beefy, and people still love to argue and rules lawyer. I had a player threaten to report me to the convention's RPG Director because I had a barbarian throw a javelin at him when he tried to flee a fight by _fly_ing away, as his argument was the *barbarian *stat block does not include javelins, so they can't have them. All barbarians everywhere use greatswords, because that's what's in the stat block in the *Monster Manual.*

I laughed in his face, and his complaint went nowhere because _*I*_ was the RPG Director of the convention and the ultimate arbiter. But that is the kind of player that the rulebooks are written to try to address. They know the rest of us will just ignore what we don't like anyway.


----------



## CleverNickName

At Cornel University, there is an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope.  Now, this microscope is so powerful that, by firing electrons, you can actually see images of the atom--the infinitesimally minute building block of our universe.  RollForCombat, if I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate any interest in the OneD&D OGL.

(with apologies to _Frasier._)


----------



## overgeeked

RealAlHazred said:


> I laughed in his face, and his complaint went nowhere because _*I*_ was the RPG Director of the convention and the ultimate arbiter.



Hopefully you told him that. 


RealAlHazred said:


> But that is the kind of player that the rulebooks are written to try to address. They know the rest of us will just ignore what we don't like anyway.



True. Unfortunately. That’s the problem right there. Writing books to sell, writing adventures to push the books, and who cares if the stuff is well designed, good for the game, etc. Nothing matters but sales.


----------



## Galandris

Wow... I am now picturing a MM barbarian seeing a ubermagical claymore on the floor saying "mmm, what is that? I really don't have a clue on how it is used... I"ll leave this strange object here" with his zweihander over the shoulder...


----------



## MarkB

RealAlHazred said:


> Here's the problem with overly detailed rules dealing with edge cases in D&D.
> 
> When you and I play at the table, we don't need those rules. We are perfectly comfortable ruling on-the-spot to take care of the edge cases. Like the FIFA football referees, we see what happened, BOOM, ruling. Done.
> 
> However, the corporation that publishes D&D has realized that they sell a lot (like, an obscene amount) of books if they can get a popular Organized Play program going, and then drive the sales with specific adventures. During the 3.5E RPGA era, they had this down to a science. Say, they come out with *Sandstorm*, a book about desert campaigns. It's meh. On it's own, it might sell okay, some people still have nostalgia for Al Qadim, they put some references in there, okay. Fine. However, then they release a season's worth of scenarios in their Living Greyhawk campaign, which has _50,000 active players *worldwide*_, and they use *Sandstorm *extensively. Like, they allow new player options from it (none of which have undergone thorough playtesting), all of the adventures take place in the Bright Lands (a massive desert), they use monsters from it (which have never been in the Bright Lands before), etc. All of the sudden, DMs who had been running Living Greyhawk need to pick up the book, because they need to refer to spells from it (which are new and have never been seen anywhere else). Players need the book because they heard this one prestige class has great synergy with something their character does, and there's this broken magic item in it, and did you see they had rules for _centaur_ characters...
> 
> Suddenly, convention organizers need to deal with _thousands of new edge cases._ _Every four months_. And when a DM just makes a ruling on the spot, that isn't specifically spelled out in the rules, the players complain and report the DM. And nobody wants to be blacklisted, because the program puts hundreds or thousands of butts in seats at the convention, and if I want that free DM pass I need to be able to run those games, which I can't do if I've been banned from the program.
> 
> It was a very effective marketing program at that time, is what I'm saying, and the rulebooks were being written _specifically _to _try _to address that, is what I believe.
> 
> Now, under 5E, they went for a more relaxed set of rules, but they're still pretty beefy, and people still love to argue and rules lawyer. I had a player threaten to report me to the convention's RPG Director because I had a barbarian throw a javelin at him when he tried to flee a fight by _fly_ing away, as his argument was the *barbarian *stat block does not include javelins, so they can't have them. All barbarians everywhere use greatswords, because that's what's in the stat block in the *Monster Manual.*
> 
> I laughed in his face, and his complaint went nowhere because _*I*_ was the RPG Director of the convention and the ultimate arbiter. But that is the kind of player that the rulebooks are written to try to address. They know the rest of us will just ignore what we don't like anyway.



Yeah, when WotC talks about better monetising D&D, organised play is the most obvious arena in which they could actually pull something off. Hopefully they don't try to introduce microtransactions.


----------



## Galandris

"Your DM has has a barbarian throw a spear? Phone 3639-DND and purchase the 1.99$ one-time ruling that barbarians don't know how to use a javelin!"


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> Here's the problem with overly detailed rules dealing with edge cases in D&D.
> 
> When you and I play at the table, we don't need those rules. We are perfectly comfortable ruling on-the-spot to take care of the edge cases. Like the FIFA football referees, we see what happened, BOOM, ruling. Done.
> 
> However, the corporation that publishes D&D has realized that they sell a lot (like, an obscene amount) of books if they can get a popular Organized Play program going, and then drive the sales with specific adventures. During the 3.5E RPGA era, they had this down to a science. Say, they come out with *Sandstorm*, a book about desert campaigns. It's meh. On it's own, it might sell okay, some people still have nostalgia for Al Qadim, they put some references in there, okay. Fine. However, then they release a season's worth of scenarios in their Living Greyhawk campaign, which has _50,000 active players *worldwide*_, and they use *Sandstorm *extensively. Like, they allow new player options from it (none of which have undergone thorough playtesting), all of the adventures take place in the Bright Lands (a massive desert), they use monsters from it (which have never been in the Bright Lands before), etc. All of the sudden, DMs who had been running Living Greyhawk need to pick up the book, because they need to refer to spells from it (which are new and have never been seen anywhere else). Players need the book because they heard this one prestige class has great synergy with something their character does, and there's this broken magic item in it, and did you see they had rules for _centaur_ characters...
> 
> Suddenly, convention organizers need to deal with _thousands of new edge cases._ _Every four months_. And when a DM just makes a ruling on the spot, that isn't specifically spelled out in the rules, the players complain and report the DM. And nobody wants to be blacklisted, because the program puts hundreds or thousands of butts in seats at the convention, and if I want that free DM pass I need to be able to run those games, which I can't do if I've been banned from the program.
> 
> It was a very effective marketing program at that time, is what I'm saying, and the rulebooks were being written _specifically _to _try _to address that, is what I believe.
> 
> Now, under 5E, they went for a more relaxed set of rules, but they're still pretty beefy, and people still love to argue and rules lawyer. I had a player threaten to report me to the convention's RPG Director because I had a barbarian throw a javelin at him when he tried to flee a fight by _fly_ing away, as his argument was the *barbarian *stat block does not include javelins, so they can't have them. All barbarians everywhere use greatswords, because that's what's in the stat block in the *Monster Manual.*
> 
> I laughed in his face, and his complaint went nowhere because _*I*_ was the RPG Director of the convention and the ultimate arbiter. But that is the kind of player that the rulebooks are written to try to address. They know the rest of us will just ignore what we don't like anyway.



Oh, how I hate the players that tell me what exists in the world I'm creating. A player can memorize the books all he wants but, ultimately, the way that the world works is the sole purview of the DM.



			https://media.giphy.com/media/XDdvIDHasJTW8qJtsn/giphy-downsized-large.gif


----------



## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> That’s the problem right there. Writing books to sell, writing adventures to push the books, and who cares if the stuff is well designed, good for the game, etc. Nothing matters but sales.



Sure, but I'm just explaining why the 5E (and PF2, and OneD&D, and whatever hits us in 2030) rules are that dense and why none of the Old School Revolution rulebooks (just as an example) have that kind of rules-density. They don't sell their stuff with Organized Play campaigns, they do it with nostalgia. "Just like B/X, but better organized!" "Basically BECMI, but with a bunch of really cool house rules." "AD&D 1E with all the errata and a bunch of other corrections included." And if we're talking nostalgia for 80s gaming, being arbitrarily killed by a DM's obscure ruling (that makes no sense and was never established previously in the campaign) plays _directly into that nostalgia_. So, probably far fewer arguments at OSR conventions. I assume; when I was RPG DIrector for our local con, none of the other system fans ever gave me any trouble over rulings.


----------



## Cadence

So, hypothetically, if there was a crowd funded legal campaign, are there any tax issues beyond what would happen if a single rich person hired the lawyer themselves?


----------



## CleverNickName

I didn't post this in any of the OneD&D rant-threads.  But hoo boy, it was tempting.

Wait.  Wait wait wait, back up a bit.​​Are you telling me that Wizards of the Coast, a for-profit company and subsidiary of Hasbro, is trying to _make money_? _from their own products?_  Are you--hang on, hang on--are you saying that the_ only reason _they are making this new stuff, is so they can _sell the new stuff, to people who want to buy it?! _  Is that what you're getting at?  Are you suggesting that, after spending countless dollars to acquire, build, and promote the D&D brand after it was nearly annihilated by TSR, Inc., that they would somehow want _money _in return?!  WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE, A BUSINESS?!​


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> At Cornel University, there is an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope.  Now, this microscope is so powerful that, by firing electrons, you can actually see images of the atom--the infinitesimally minute building block of our universe.  RollForCombat, if I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate any interest in the OneD&D OGL.
> 
> (with apologies to _Frasier._)




Counterpoint: The effort required to make that post proves the existence of non-zero interest.


----------



## CleverNickName

Deset Gled said:


> Counterpoint: The effort required to make that post proves the existence of non-zero interest.



Even if I just lazily copied/pasted it from somewhere else?

I suppose you're right.  Maybe not non-zero, but certainly subatomic.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> I had a player threaten to report me to the convention's RPG Director because I had a barbarian throw a javelin at him when he tried to flee a fight by _fly_ing away, as his argument was the *barbarian *stat block does not include javelins, so they can't have them. All barbarians everywhere use greatswords, because that's what's in the stat block in the *Monster Manual.*
> 
> I laughed in his face, and his complaint went nowhere because _*I*_ was the RPG Director of the convention and the ultimate arbiter. But that is the kind of player that the rulebooks are written to try to address. They know the rest of us will just ignore what we don't like anyway.




I mean ... wow ... just wow .....


_WHAT KIND OF MONSTER REMOVES PLAYER AGENCY LIKE THAT???!!!!!! _


----------



## Ryujin

CleverNickName said:


> I didn't post this in any of the OneD&D rant-threads.  But hoo boy, it was tempting.
> 
> Wait.  Wait wait wait, back up a bit.​​Are you telling me that Wizards of the Coast, a for-profit company and subsidiary of Hasbro, is trying to _make money_? _from their own products?_  Are you--hang on, hang on--are you saying that the_ only reason _they are making this new stuff, is so they can _sell the new stuff, to people who want to buy it?! _  Is that what you're getting at?  Are you suggesting that, after spending countless dollars to acquire, build, and promote the D&D brand after it was nearly annihilated by TSR, Inc., that they would somehow want _money _in return?!  WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE, A BUSINESS?!​



Post that and you will have graduated to true Canadian levels of passive-aggressiveness.


----------



## billd91

RealAlHazred said:


> Now, under 5E, they went for a more relaxed set of rules, but they're still pretty beefy, and people still love to argue and rules lawyer. I had a player threaten to report me to the convention's RPG Director because I had a barbarian throw a javelin at him when he tried to flee a fight by _fly_ing away, as his argument was the *barbarian *stat block does not include javelins, so they can't have them. All barbarians everywhere use greatswords, because that's what's in the stat block in the *Monster Manual.*



In 5e? Gee, my 5e Monster Manual doesn't even *have* a barbarian stat block.


----------



## Galandris

billd91 said:


> In 5e? Gee, my 5e Monster Manual doesn't even *have* a barbarian stat block.




They are statted as Respectable People Connected to Nature and Unfortunately Afflicted with Intermittent Explosive Behavior, Victime of Misjudgment and Misconception Carried Out by City-Dwellers Too Proud Just Because they have Aqueducts.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Galandris said:


> They are listed as Respectable People Connected to Nature and Unfortunately Afflicted with Intermittent Explosive Behavior, .




I read that three times, and each time I read it as, “Intermittent Explosive Diarrhea”

That’s on brand for the barbarian. 

_I am the great Cornholio! I am Path of the TP for my Bunghole!_


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I read that three times, and each time I read it as, “Intermittent Explosive Diarrhea”




Why do you think the civilized build aqueducts for  ?


----------



## Cadence

Is it just me, or does it feel unencouraging when there is lack of commentary from people one would usually expect informative commentary from.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Is it just me, or does it feel unencouraging when there is lack of commentary from people one would usually expect informative commentary from.




See, the first thing you gotta do is lower your expectations.

Second ... informative commentary? On the internet? I mean, I feel pretty lucky just to find a good poop joke! (See 1, supra).

Third, did you know that there are people that watch over chickens?



Spoiler



That's right. Chicken tenders.


...you're welcome.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> See, the first thing you gotta do is lower your expectations.
> 
> Second ... informative commentary? On the internet? I mean, I feel pretty lucky just to find a good poop joke! (See 1, supra).
> 
> Third, did you know that there are people that watch over chickens?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> That's right. Chicken tenders.
> 
> 
> ...you're welcome.




If there are rumors of a fox around, and rumors that the chicken watchers have signed an NDA with the fox, then it's kind of spooky if you're a chicken.  <Especially if you've seen Babe. >


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Is it just me, or does it feel unencouraging when there is lack of commentary from people one would usually expect informative commentary from.



I just start wondering if the people who would usually post insightful commentary just have the users who _are_ commenting blocked.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> Even if I just lazily copied/pasted it from somewhere else?
> 
> I suppose you're right.  Maybe not non-zero, but certainly subatomic.



I suppose you could say, you _could _care less about it.


----------



## Cadence

Ryujin said:


> I just start wondering if the people who would usually post insightful commentary just have the users who _are_ commenting blocked.



Well, for starters, the insightful ones would never block any of us in this thread.  Isn't that tautological?
In the second place, what if it isn't just on here?


----------



## overgeeked




----------



## Cadence

In any case, I'd be really nervous right now if I'd spent more time actually opening my pizza parlor instead of just sketching out plans for it and dreaming.  I hope those who actually did put their lives into opening one aren't hosed too badly by the year's new food service rules.


----------



## Bedrockgames

overgeeked said:


> View attachment 271296




So what you are saying is humanity owes its existence to the pineapple pizza


----------



## Galandris

Given our history, we'd have made dinosaurs extinct anyway. You know why pineapple tried to jump on the pizza? They noticed the only species that we care about are the ones we eat...


----------



## trappedslider

overgeeked said:


> View attachment 271296



umm, well that's wrong because


----------



## Cadence

Over on MtG Twitter...


----------



## Hussar

That's a fair point really.  I know that I forget that sometimes.  I find the best solution is to always try to balance it.  If I'm having a tough go of it with the negativity, try posting a positive thread - something that generates creative stuff, and that often balances things out.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> Post that and you will have graduated to true Canadian levels of passive-aggressiveness.




Oh, and here we are thinking that Canadians are _nice_.

True story: my wife and I were on a trip to Rome, and took a cooking class - making your own pasta and such.  There was one other guy in the class, a Canadian.

And he was such a prime nozzle.  My wife conjectured that, in fact, Canada was so nice just because of this - each year in a ritual, they produce a sin eater, who they then send out touring the world, exporting all their worst tendencies, and we just happened to run into this year's sacrificial lamb.


----------



## Mannahnin

"You heet the Canadian?"
"I... 'heet' the Canadian?  Don't know what you're talkin' about."
(beckons, points)
"That's him!  That's the motherf****!"
(sighs, facepalms)
"You heet the Canadian, ja?"


----------



## trappedslider

As told to me from Candian twitter, all the hate/anger gets put into the Canadian Goose.


----------



## Ryujin

Umbran said:


> Oh, and here we are thinking that Canadians are _nice_.
> 
> True story: my wife and I were on a trip to Rome, and took a cooking class - making your own pasta and such.  There was one other guy in the class, a Canadian.
> 
> And he was such a prime nozzle.  My wife conjectured that, in fact, Canada was so nice just because of this - each year in a ritual, they produce a sin eater, who they then send out touring the world, exporting all their worst tendencies, and we just happened to run into this year's sacrificial lamb.



We are nice. Rather than being aggressive-agressive, we stop at being passive-aggressive. As a result we have raised passive-aggressiveness to an art form.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> As told to me from Candian twitter, all the hate/anger gets put into the Canadian Goose.



Or, as it's sometimes known,. the Micro Raptor.


----------



## payn

Oh man, that clickbait sounds tempting but im sticking to my guns!


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Oh man, that clickbait sounds tempting but im sticking to my guns!




Don't do it!  It's not even _good _clickbait.


----------



## Umbran

Ryujin said:


> We are nice. Rather than being aggressive-agressive, we stop at being passive-aggressive. As a result we have raised passive-aggressiveness to an art form.




Ah, so, to quote the witch in _Into the Woods_ - "You're not good, you're not bad, you're just _nice_."


----------



## Cadence

Cadence said:


> So, hypothetically, if there was a crowd funded legal campaign, are there any tax issues beyond what would happen if a single rich person hired the lawyer themselves?




Any insight @Snarf Zagyg ?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Any insight @Snarf Zagyg ?




I generally avoid tax issues, for good reason. That said, it is perfectly common to have other people with common interests jointly fund litigation. In my area of expertise, this is usually done directly.

I would be cautious about direct contributions to an individual or entity to fund litigation, simply because those donations might be treated as income; however, crowdsourced donations (gofundme, etc.) are usually considered gifts. But that's definitely a tax professional issue.


----------



## Cadence

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I generally avoid tax issues, for good reason. That said, it is perfectly common to have other people with common interests jointly fund litigation. In my area of expertise, this is usually done directly.
> 
> I would be cautious about direct contributions to an individual or entity to fund litigation, simply because those donations might be treated as income; however, crowdsourced donations (gofundme, etc.) are usually considered gifts. But that's definitely a tax professional issue.




Thanks.  I guess any lawyer getting into it would work that out.  For a relevant jousting with a big legal firm over the right issues I'd certainly contribute to the crowdfunding.


----------



## J.Quondam

I had resolved this year not to follow industry news, legal threads, etc; and focus instead on the fun, creative D&D stuff.

Welp, that lasted less than 5 days.


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> I had resolved this year not to follow industry news, legal threads, etc; and focus instead on the fun, creative D&D stuff.
> 
> Welp, that lasted less than 5 days.



It's very difficult to ignore those bits right now. It's almost all the talk.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> It's very difficult to ignore those bits right now. It's almost all the talk.




I don't know about you, but I am enjoying the rafts of analysis! 







I'm just waiting for someone to bring in the Admiralty Law. Argghhhh... high seas, matey!


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I don't know about you, but I am enjoying the rafts of analysis!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just waiting for someone to bring in the Admiralty Law. Argghhhh... high seas, matey!



It does appear to be Snarf season, yes.






Im more...


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> It does appear to be Snarf season, yes.




I wouldn't go that far. I'm trying not to get too tied into actual, you know, analysis. It's more that I am enjoying the rubbernecking. There's a lot of unintentional comedy going on.


----------



## Cadence

Sometime soon the form to reserve the cabin in the northwoods this summer will come through for our annual family trip (four + decades long tradition).

It used to be a pretty popular small tourist town with lots of campgrounds and cabins to rent.  And then folks from the big cities with lots of money started buying out the campgrounds and resorts and turning them into vacation houses and condos.  And instead of a handful of different new families coming to town each week of the summer on that lot, there was one that came up for a couple weeks.  And that family might not have cared about the various touristy things scaling back and going away - but I wonder if they care about the decrease in stores and restaurants that can't support themselves when a huge part of the customer base is cut by a factor of 20 and aren't replaced when they go under.

It feels like it takes cultivation and planning to make good things last.


----------



## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm just waiting for someone to bring in the Admiralty Law. Argghhhh... high seas, matey!


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> but I wonder if they care about the decrease in stores and restaurants that can't support themselves when a huge part of the customer base is cut by a factor of 20 and aren't replaced when they go under.



Coming from a big city? Probably not.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Cadence

payn said:


> Coming from a big city? Probably not.




Could be.

I always assumed they bought there because they enjoyed vacationing there at some point with the charm of the non-chain shops and restaurants on the main street being part of that.  If they just wanted a cabin on a lake somewhere with not much around there are probably cheaper and closer places they could have bought land?


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Sometime soon the form to reserve the cabin in the northwoods this summer will come through for our annual family trip (four + decades long tradition).
> 
> It used to be a pretty popular small tourist town with lots of campgrounds and cabins to rent.  And then folks from the big cities with lots of money started buying out the campgrounds and resorts and turning them into vacation houses and condos.  And instead of a handful of different new families coming to town each week of the summer on that lot, there was one that came up for a couple weeks.  And that family might not have cared about the various touristy things scaling back and going away - but I wonder if they care about the decrease in stores and restaurants that can't support themselves when a huge part of the customer base is cut by a factor of 20 and aren't replaced when they go under.
> 
> It feels like it takes cultivation and planning to make good things last.



When I was a kid, my family would rent a cottage in a camp of rentals for between 2 and 4 weeks every summer. These cottages had electric power but no heat (just fireplaces), and the water had to be hauled up from a communal well. The owner died and his grown kids divided up the camp into three separate sets of rentals. One kid sold his three off to separate, private owners. We stopped going there when my parents divorced, in my mid teens.

I visited there about 20 years ago. One of the kids, now in his 70s, was hanging on to the last 8 or 9 cottages. 

I just took a look at the area, on Google Maps. The name has changed. It's no longer listed as a business. The town, that was just a mile away, is now a shell of its former self and none of the businesses that I remember exist anymore.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Cadence said:


> Could be.
> 
> I always assumed they bought there because they enjoyed vacationing there at some point with the charm of the non-chain shops and restaurants on the main street being part of that.  If they just wanted a cabin on a lake somewhere with not much around there are probably cheaper and closer places they could have bought land?




Speaking for myself, I only buy land to deprive others of the opportunity to buy that land.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Also? It's disappointing that all of this OGL nonsense has deprived us of the opportunity to talk about the most important thing going on ...

Seriously, what is UP with US Soccer? That story took some unexpected turns, didn't it?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

2023 is apparently the year I move back to GeoCities and Castles & Crusades.


----------



## Deset Gled

Cadence said:


> Sometime soon the form to reserve the cabin in the northwoods this summer will come through for our annual family trip (four + decades long tradition).
> 
> It used to be a pretty popular small tourist town with lots of campgrounds and cabins to rent.  And then folks from the big cities with lots of money started buying out the campgrounds and resorts and turning them into vacation houses and condos.  And instead of a handful of different new families coming to town each week of the summer on that lot, there was one that came up for a couple weeks.  And that family might not have cared about the various touristy things scaling back and going away - but I wonder if they care about the decrease in stores and restaurants that can't support themselves when a huge part of the customer base is cut by a factor of 20 and aren't replaced when they go under.
> 
> It feels like it takes cultivation and planning to make good things last.




People in tourist towns complain when there's too many people; things get too expensive, and eventually people in the small tourist town can't afford to live there anymore.

People in tourist towns also complain when there's not enough people; not enough money comes in, and eventually people in the small tourist town can't afford to live there anymore.

People in tourists towns remind me of people who post on RPG message boards.  Things are always getting worse.  They're never happy with the way things are now.  But there was some mythical time in the past when everything was just perfect.


----------



## Cadence

Deset Gled said:


> People in tourist towns complain when there's too many people; things get too expensive, and eventually people in the small tourist town can't afford to live there anymore.
> 
> People in tourist towns also complain when there's not enough people; not enough money comes in, and eventually people in the small tourist town can't afford to live there anymore.
> 
> People in tourists towns remind me of people who post on RPG message boards.  Things are always getting worse.  They're never happy with the way things are now.  But there was some mythical time in the past when everything was just perfect.




"People complain" seems like a thing.

It had always been a fairly cheap tourist town....  and still is cheap if you don't want to live on a lake.   It used to be cheap until the late 80s to live on a lake, and then it got really popular.  A lot of the long time residents who ran the shops have taken several years to find buyers so they could finally retire over the past decade.


----------



## trappedslider

I live in a tourist trap  town and during tourist season (not to be confused with hunting season, I know this now lol) there are too many people.


----------



## J.Quondam

It's like the Old Gods have been awakened.


----------



## darjr

Wow! 

The F in fud is real.

Next to no one wants to come forward. 

No. One.

I feel inclined to reward those that have.


----------



## Cadence

Are there the equivalent of CC licenses where you can say except by certain groups or their subsidiaries?  ;-)


----------



## Galandris

Deset Gled said:


> People in tourists towns remind me of people who post on RPG message boards.  Things are always getting worse.  They're never happy with the way things are now.  But there was some mythical time in the past when everything was just perfect.




Mmmm.... People in tourist towns depend on external factor for things to be better in the mythical past, namely the influx of people. I don't get that reasoning with RPGs. I felt, after playing 5e for a while, that the venerable, old-time, RQ was better suited to my needs... nothing prevents me for playing it. If something was better in the past, it is still accessible today in the RPG world. It's not like an old computer game that can't be played on current hardware, for example.


----------



## Ryujin

Cadence said:


> Are there the equivalent of CC licenses where you can say except by certain groups or their subsidiaries?  ;-)



The only similar exception that I know is "Non-Commercial." It bars commercal use of the intellectual property by profit making businesses, period.


----------



## CleverNickName

I need a break.  I think this is gonna be the plan for a little while.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Meanwhile, in the third party world ...


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## South by Southwest

Oh, wow...see, this whole OGL affair is just sort of thing that convinced me not to go into law and to pursue academia instead.

Okay, I'm going back to lurking.


----------



## CleverNickName

Also 30 years ago:


----------



## Scribe

The snark levels in some of these threads.


----------



## Mad_Jack

I have now read several posts in each of the OGL discussion threads, and am officially over it.


----------



## South by Southwest




----------



## Cadence

When you realize you are about to defend the people who really annoyed you, for what they did that really annoyed you, it might be time for bed.


----------



## J.Quondam

Cadence said:


> When you realize you are about to defend the people who really annoyed you, for what they did that really annoyed you, it might be time for bed.



Five days in, and I'm convinced this is just going to be one of those years.
_*"2023. It's always time for bed."*_


----------



## payn

J.Quondam said:


> Five days in, and I'm convinced this is just going to be one of those years.
> _*"2023. It's always time for bed."*_



Seeing as I took an afternoon nap today, I agree with this sentiment.


----------



## Hussar

Man was I just so wrong. Wow as in I couldn’t have been more wrong if I tried. 

I’m going to sit here, nice and quietly and contemplate just how wrong I was.


----------



## Cadence

If it wasn't for corporate reporting requirements, I would actually believe they had purchased it now.


----------



## CleverNickName

So many threads can be summed up with "yes I know it's in the rules, but how can I make the DM ignore it?"


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> So many threads can be summed up with "yes I know it's in the rules, but how can I make the DM ignore it?"



Have you figured it out yet?


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> Have you figured it out yet?



Yep.  The answer was right under my nose the whole time.

*Be the DM you want to see in the world.*


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Hussar said:


> Man was I just so wrong. Wow as in I couldn’t have been more wrong if I tried.
> 
> I’m going to sit here, nice and quietly and contemplate just how wrong I was.




I'm never wrong. It's just that sometimes the world hasn't figured out how to be right yet.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I'm never wrong. It's just that sometimes the world hasn't figured out how to be right yet.



The only time I've been wrong is the time I thought I was wrong.


----------



## RealAlHazred

"Right, wrong, I'm the guy with the banhammer."
-- @Umbran , probably


----------



## RealAlHazred

New thread idea: "The OGL Needs an Elon Musk."


----------



## J.Quondam

CleverNickName said:


> So many threads can be summed up with "yes I know it's in the rules, but how can I make the DM ignore it?"



And if you swap out "DM" for "judge", you've got a good summary of the _other _half of the threads around here lately.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> New thread idea: "The OGL Needs an Elon Musk."




If you can find some way to put orcs and alignment in that as well?

_chef's kiss_


----------



## payn

RealAlHazred said:


> New thread idea: "The OGL Needs an Elon Musk."



Why not?


----------



## Galandris

Snarf Zagyg said:


> If you can find some way to put orcs and alignment in that as well?
> 
> _chef's kiss_




Easy.

The OGL needs an always-evil manager, likes orcs are, such as Elon Tusk, to implement microtransactions in One.


----------



## CleverNickName

New idea:  "Survivor: Threads About the OGL"

But I'd have to find a way to thin the list.  If nothing else, the "Survivor: Species" thread taught me that lists longer than 100 entries get _really _tedious.


----------



## darjr

CleverNickName said:


> I need a break.  I think this is gonna be the plan for a little while.
> 
> View attachment 271378



Ha! Wait till the thing drops or WotC makes an official statement or a big name or even WotC employee comes out against it…

Some if that is happening.


----------



## CleverNickName

darjr said:


> Ha! Wait till the thing drops or WotC makes an official statement or a big name or even WotC employee comes out against it…
> 
> Some if that is happening.



It all feels so familiar.  It's like it's 2008 all over again.  I keep coming back to this gem every few years.









						Confessions of a 4E Detractor
					

01-08-14:  I was about to post a long and exhausting rant over in the D&D Next forum about the upcoming release, and then I realized it was all starting to sound familiar.  Then I remembered this post that I wrote back in 2008, and decided to follow my own advice.  01-05-23: The more things...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## darjr

It is. Remarkably so.

I’m shocked by it actually. Someone at WotC sincerely thought they were smarter then everyone else and could beat history.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> It all feels so familiar.  It's like it's 2008 all over again.  I keep coming back to this gem every few years.




I read it. You know what I took from it?

"I drank copious amounts of rum,"

There's a lesson there. And that lesson? Copious amounts of rum makes everything better.


----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## CleverNickName

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I read it. You know what I took from it?
> 
> "I drank copious amounts of rum,"
> 
> There's a lesson there. And that lesson? Copious amounts of rum makes everything better.



And in that spirit*, here's my favorite rum cocktail.

*CleverMaiTai*

2 oz. Puerto Rican rum
0.5 oz. Grand Mariner
1 oz. fresh-squeezed lime juice
1 oz. orgeat syrup
0.5 oz. dark rum

Shake the first four ingredients with ice, strain into an ice-filled glass.  Top with the dark rum, serve.  You're supposed to garnish it with a cherry and a lime wedge or whatever, but I never bother.

*see what I did there?


----------



## prabe

Angels and ministers of grace preserve us, the hobby lawyers have come to play.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> And in that spirit*, here's my favorite rum cocktail.









And my favorite rum cocktail!

*Snarf's Takin' Away the Pain of the OGL Discussions Cocktail*

2.5 oz. good quality aged rum
4 oz. pineapple juice
1 oz. cream of coconut (NOT, repeat NOT coconut cream you heathen)
1 oz. orange juice
Nutmeg

1. Buy some rum. Some good rum. Tale of Two Islands? Facundo Paraiso? Whatever.
2. Okay, now take something else (Pusser's, something you serve guests) and pour it and the rest of the ingredients (except the nutmeg) and shake with ice.
3. Start sipping the good rum. Big, big sips .... but not quite gulps.
4. Hey! You have a cocktail! Down the hatch with that puppy. You forgot to grate the nutmeg, didn't you. No worries. You'll use that later.
5. Keep on keepin' on with that good rum. So good.
6. Hey, is that another bottle of good rum? Why yes it is. Yes. It. Is.
7. Look at all that nutmeg. Wonder what happens if I eat it all?
8. Thank me later, or not.


----------



## payn

Im not a big rum fan, but I do enjoy some holiday mules.


4 ounces ginger beer
▢4 ounces cranberry juice cocktail
▢2 ounces dark rum 
▢1 lime, cut in half
▢crushed ice cubes
▢fresh cranberries


----------



## Galandris

prabe said:


> Angels and ministers of grace preserve us, the hobby lawyers have come to play.




I actually put more weight in the hobby's lawyers than in armchair lawyers.


----------



## Gradine

I don't drink much anymore but in my college days I was pretty (in)famous for my go-to drink:

Gradine's Peppermint Death

One 12 oz can of Dr. Pepper
4 oz of 100-proof Peppermint Schnapps
One time a friend convinced me to try the same thing, except with grape soda and Jägermeister.





We're not friends anymore.


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I read it. You know what I took from it?
> 
> "I drank copious amounts of rum,"
> 
> There's a lesson there. And that lesson? Copious amounts of rum makes everything better.





			https://i.gifer.com/4bRQ.gif


----------



## prabe

Galandris said:


> I actually put more weight in the hobby's lawyers than in armchair lawyers.



I do, too. What I meant by "hobby lawyers" was probably close to what you mean by "armchair lawyers," in that I was getting at people who treat the law as a hobby.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> I do, too. What I meant by "hobby lawyers" was probably close to what you mean by "armchair lawyers," in that I was getting at people who treat the law as a hobby.



For a second, I was hoping there was some unit of lawyers that give time and effort to helping the small guys. Then, I realized you just meant folks with a passing interest.


----------



## prabe

payn said:


> For a second, I was hoping there was some unit of lawyers that give time and effort to helping the small guys. Then, I realized you just meant folks with a passing interest.



There are lawyers who specialize in helping the small guys, but that wasn't whom I was referring to, sorry.


----------



## Scribe

The bowing and scraping towards a corporation, for a game that isnt even that great at anything but being 'accessible' borders on the obscene at times.


----------



## CleverNickName

And on the other side of that coin:
Publishers should get paid for the stuff they publish.


----------



## MarkB

prabe said:


> I do, too. What I meant by "hobby lawyers" was probably close to what you mean by "armchair lawyers," in that I was getting at people who treat the law as a hobby.



I just thought it was lawyers who specialise in games and hobbies. It's a growing market thanks to nuTSR.


----------



## RealAlHazred

A good friend of mine suggested the following cocktail to deal with the headaches of the new year:

Take the juice from one bottle of Ol' Janx Spirit.
Pour into it one measure of water from the seas of Santraginus V — Oh, that Santraginean seawater! Oh, those Santraginean fish!
Allow three cubes of Arcturan Mega-gin to melt into the mixture (it must be properly iced or the benzene is lost).
Allow four litres of Fallian marsh gas to bubble through it, in memory of all those happy hikers who have died of pleasure in the Marshes of Fallia.
Over the back of a silver spoon float a measure of Qualactin Hypermint extract, redolent of all the heady odours of the dark Qualactin Zones, subtle, sweet and mystic.
Drop in the tooth of an Algolian Suntiger. Watch it dissolve, spreading the fires of the Algolian Suns deep into the heart of the drink.
Sprinkle Zamphuor.
Add an olive.
Drink... but... very carefully...


----------



## eyeheartawk

I'm having too much fun making terrible WOTC memes.


----------



## darjr

Oh cheese and crackers. Erg.


----------



## eyeheartawk

I can't stop


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

If nothing else, these last few days have given me the nightmare scenario of DMing a group of ENWorld posters ... and discovering they're all lawyers.


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> If nothing else, these last few days have given me the nightmare scenario of DMing a group of ENWorld posters ... and discovering they're all lawyers.



That sounds like two different nightmares to me.


----------



## South by Southwest

prabe said:


> That sounds like two different nightmares to me.



Rolled into one.


----------



## Mad_Jack

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> If nothing else, these last few days have given me the nightmare scenario of DMing a group of ENWorld posters ... and discovering they're all lawyers.




 That might even be worse than the time I ran a game for a group of engineers, and they literally voluntarily TPK'd themselves after I described the party crossing a thin, cracked ice bridge - apparently, the dimensions I gave them for the bridge triggered one of them, who busted out his calculator and decided that the bridge couldn't hold the party's weight, so they all fell to their deaths... 
They immediately started rolling up new characters despite my continuing insistence that I'd just change the dimensions of the ice bridge to something that their rigid little machine brains could accept and we could continue on with the  frackin' adventure...


----------



## CleverNickName

"Okay so I'm not a lawyer, but let's ignore that tiny detail.  Here's another 5000 words of legal-ish hyperbole..."


----------



## Deset Gled

CleverNickName said:


> "Okay so I'm not a lawyer, but let's ignore that tiny detail.  Here's 5000 words of legal-ish hyperbole..."




That's works for the ones who are lawyers, too. "5000 words of hyperbole" is a great way to define a lot of lawsuits (and motions, etc).


----------



## CleverNickName

Deset Gled said:


> That's works for the ones who are lawyers, too. "5000 words of hyperbole" is a great way to define a lot of lawsuits (and motions, etc).



I'm not a lawyer, but from the outside-looking-in?  That checks out.


----------



## Gradine

I remember a comic of some kind where a player brought along a 500-page document, double-checked by two separate lawyers, all for a single casting of _Wish_.

Probably a Knights of the Dinner Table kind of thing


----------



## CleverNickName

Gradine said:


> I remember a comic of some kind where a player brought along a 500-page document, double-checked by two separate lawyers, all for a single casting of _Wish_.
> 
> Probably a Knights of the Dinner Table kind of thing



I remember that comic!  "It's even _notarized_!"


----------



## Cadence

In other things, down here a lot of folks seem to take their Christmas decorations down shortly after Christmas (at least before New Years).  Others seemingly hold out until yesterday (12th day) or today (Epiphany).  For us, we've taken to waiting for the Nuuti Pukki to arrive a week from today.





Much like Linus and the Great Pumpkin (albeit a bit in reverse in terms of who the giver and getter would be) we have yet to actually see one.  It does give an excuse to keep the lights up a week longer and to ponder what the D&D system agnostic stats would be.


----------



## trappedslider

Deset Gled said:


> That's works for the ones who are lawyers, too. "5000 words of hyperbole" is a great way to define a lot of lawsuits (and motions, etc).



@Dannyalcatraz can you confirm?


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

CleverNickName said:


> "Okay so I'm not a lawyer, but let's ignore that tiny detail.  Here's another 5000 words of legal-ish hyperbole..."




"Hey! I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night!"


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

trappedslider said:


> @Dannyalcatraz can you confirm?



A lot of “legalese” is lawyers exhausting synonyms for words in their documents.  This is, in part, because some lawsuits have been decided on the use of a particular word choice instead of a synonym.

When I was in law school, I was taught 2 ways to combat bloat:

1) use the words used in the relevant statutes.

2) when writing a legal document, include a section of definitions for any specific terminology.

Wills & Estate Prof. Stanley Johannsen illustrated the problem by handing out a 25 page document to the class, and asked us to start reading it.  He called us to stop after about 5 minutes.  He then asked us to look at the last page.  It was about 3 paragraphs of text that didn’t quite fill the sheet. This, he said, was what he had reduced the previous 24 pages to with careful drafting.

(He then threatened to eternally haunt anyone who drafted docs like the bulk of the pages as opposed to the last one.)

Another part of that verbose drafting style is trapping your opponents by the sheer amount of language used, hoping they’ll miss some key clause.  Again, the UT profs hated that mindset.  They generally taught that your documents should be drafted clearly and succinctly in order to PREVENT litigation and needless delays.  Clarity lets everyone know their obligations and diminishes disruption.  If you wind up in court, your documents were probably flawed.


----------



## prabe

South by Southwest said:


> Rolled into one.



Two great tastes that do *not* go great together.


----------



## CleverNickName

Evergreen advice.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

In related news, Willy Wonka is NOT giving the Chocolate Factory to Hasbro.


----------



## Mannahnin

CleverNickName said:


> And in that spirit*, here's my favorite rum cocktail.
> 
> *CleverMaiTai*
> 
> 2 oz. Puerto Rican rum
> 0.5 oz. Grand Mariner
> 1 oz. fresh-squeezed lime juice
> 1 oz. orgeat syrup
> 0.5 oz. dark rum
> 
> Shake the first four ingredients with ice, strain into an ice-filled glass.  Top with the dark rum, serve.  You're supposed to garnish it with a cherry and a lime wedge or whatever, but I never bother.
> 
> *see what I did there?



This is pretty close to the original Trader Vic recipe, which once I tried it* and started making them at home during the pandemic totally ruined for me the junk ones you find in restaurants.  I've never really been a rum guy, but original-style Mai Tais and classic Daiquiris got me so I always have rum on hand now.

(*well, obviously without the now-nonexistent 17 year Wray & Nephew rum)


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Mannahnin said:


> This is pretty close to the original Trader Vic recipe, which once I tried it* and started making them at home during the pandemic totally ruined for me the junk ones you find in restaurants.  I've never really been a rum guy, but original-style Mai Tais and classic Daiquiris got me so I always have rum on hand now.
> 
> (*well, obviously without the now-nonexistent 17 year Wray & Nephew rum)



Anyone who likes tiki drinks should run, not walk to get Sippin' Safari, which has all these original recipes -- there are multiple competing Mai Tais, for instance -- and is a gorgeous artifact to have on your bookshelf, besides.

I've been making cocktails at home since the pandemic began and it's probably my most-used book, once I got beyond the three-ingredient cocktail stage.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> This is pretty close to the original Trader Vic recipe, which once I tried it* and started making them at home during the pandemic totally ruined for me the junk ones you find in restaurants.  I've never really been a rum guy, but original-style Mai Tais and classic Daiquiris got me so I always have rum on hand now.
> 
> (*well, obviously without the now-nonexistent 17 year Wray & Nephew rum)




_*Spirits, Ranked*_

1. Scotch 





_(and other whisk(e)ys). _

2. Gin.

3. Caspar ... the Friendly.

4. Rum/Rhum.

5. TEQUILA! (Fun fact- Tequila should always be spelled like you're screaming it)

6. Brandy. You're a fine Girl.

7. The Babadook.

1,083. Vodka.


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _*Spirits, Ranked*_
> 
> 1. Scotch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(and other whisk(e)ys). _
> 
> 2. Gin.
> 
> 3. Caspar ... the Friendly.
> 
> 4. Rum/Rhum.
> 
> 5. TEQUILA! (Fun fact- Tequila should always be spelled like you're screaming it)
> 
> 6. Brandy. You're a fine Girl.
> 
> 7. The Babadook.
> 
> 1,083. Vodka.



I had no room on my list for cognac until I had me a good Sazerac.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> I had no room on my list for cognac until I had me a good Sazerac.




Cognac/Armagnac (brandy) are both great ... but a well-made Sazerac is divine!


----------



## MarkB

Snarf Zagyg said:


> In related news, Willy Wonka is NOT giving the Chocolate Factory to Hasbro.



No need. Just wait until Charlie gets it, then give it another six months. After dealing with Health and Safety inspections, tax audits and Oompa Loompa union reps for a few weeks he'll be happy to sell it to them for a knock-down price.


----------



## South by Southwest

Here's what I learned this week:

All scandals always amplify in the Social Media Age.
No one _really_ knows what's going on anyway, so don't obsess over it.
Rules lawyers, apparently, are not the only lawyers we have on EN World.
But point (2) still applies.
Busy week, comparatively. Last week all I really learned was that the lore of Baba Yaga stretches across time and distance in ways hard to follow.

Oh--and that COVID really, really, _really_ sucks.


----------



## eyeheartawk




----------



## trappedslider




----------



## trappedslider

I am so glad I don't follow RPG news anymore


----------



## Malmuria

Remember everyone, "never piss off people for who one of their main hobbies involves _aggressive and thorough note-taking_."


----------



## Benjamin Olson

So I used to be a lawyer (briefly), and my focus in law school was on intellectual property, and the last thing I want to touch with a ten foot pole is any discussion about OGL law here. I'm too far removed from the profession to speak with much authority or confidence, but too educated in the subject matter to not be very embarrassed if I said anything demonstrably incorrect. And a big free for all discussion of legal interpretation with lawyers and laypeople is pretty miserable even when you aren't in the third "sort of a lawyer" no mans land camp. And yet, at the same time, being aware of a discussion nearby (in real life or on the internet) about something where I know more about some of the pertinent aspects than many if not most of the participants and yet not then interjecting myself into the discussion goes against all my instincts both as a professional educator and as a know-it-all.

Truly it has been a banner week of not commenting in other threads for me.


----------



## Galandris

prabe said:


> There are lawyers who specialize in helping the small guys, but that wasn't whom I was referring to, sorry.




Thanks for clarification. Actually i think my understanding comes from my improper parsing of your sentence. (English isn't my main language). I was thinking that our hobby could find and fund a few lawyers (maybe Paizo, since they have the more to lose, but probably they can remove any left-over from the 3.5 times, so maybe another pubisher) to challenge the right of WotC to revoke the licence for past products. After all, our lobby have a few licensed lawyers who could even find some interest in doing something at reasonable rates. 

I understand now that we were thinking of everyone suddenly giving legal opinion on the board


----------



## darjr

Cheese and crackers.

Sometimes knowing isn't half the battle, it just sucks.


----------



## darjr

It's like schrodingers community. Lots of folks can point to the leak and say "We are not participating" or "This is very bad" or "heads up". Possibly including folks that were in the NDA meetings. Which engenders a lot of "This is still only a rumor". 

Do folks really think some of these companies would be doing these things on rumor only?


----------



## J.Quondam

darjr said:


> It's like schrodingers community. Lots of folks can point to the leak and say "We are not participating" or "This is very bad" or "heads up". Possibly including folks that were in the NDA meetings. Which engenders a lot of "This is still only a rumor".
> 
> Do folks really think some of these companies would be doing these things on rumor only?



Admittedly, just FUD all by itself _can_ be a pretty powerful demotivating factor. Especially where corporate-level lawyers are involved.


----------



## Mad_Jack

I'll be so happy to be able to get back to edition wars and rules lawyering...


----------



## payn

Mad_Jack said:


> I'll be so happy to be able to get back to edition wars and rules lawyering...



Never thought you'd be saying that did ya?


----------



## Cadence

GM: Ok, picking up from last time, the sector has been peaceful, and  you are sitting in orbit, shields down, and the weapons system offline for  diagnostics. A large warship appears at the edge of scanner range and hails that they have come to peacefully talk.

Player: Cool, how far off are they, what are they doing?

GM: They're still several hours off. The computer estimates the ship is eight times the volume of yours and now seems to have shields up that prevent seeing much detail.

Player: I hail them to exchange pleasantries.

GM:. All you get is static, possibly from their shields if they're heavy enough. While you're waiting you pick up an unidentified relayed message that a large ship recently attacked another cruiser.  You can't tell if the specs they send match the incoming one due to the shields.

Player: No sense risking offending the incoming ship, continue with diagnostics.

GM: The ship will probably arrive before you're finished with them.  A second message comes in, this time from an alliance cruiser, about the same as the first.

Player: That's fine, will be interesting to see what they want to talk about. You said a few hours? I'll still have time to finish the mystery I'm doing in the holo-deck before they get here, right?


----------



## darjr

UGH!

Another.


----------



## payn

Cadence said:


> GM: Ok, picking up from last time, the sector has been peaceful, and  you are sitting in orbit, shields down, and the weapons system offline for  diagnostics. A large warship appears at the edge of scanner range and hails that they have come to peacefully talk.
> 
> Player: Cool, how far off are they, what are they doing?
> 
> GM: They're still several hours off. The computer estimates the ship is eight times the volume of yours and now seems to have shields up that prevent seeing much detail.
> 
> Player: I hail them to exchange pleasantries.
> 
> GM:. All you get is static, likely from their shields. While you're waiting you pick up an unidentified relayed message that a large ship recently attacked another cruiser.  You can't tell if the specs they send match the incoming one due to the shields.
> 
> Player: No sense risking offending the incoming ship, continue with diagnostics.
> 
> GM: The ship will probably arrive before you're finished.  A second message comes in, this time from an alliance cruiser, about the same as the first.
> 
> Player: Ok, you said a few hours? I'll still have time to finish the mystery I'm doing in the holo-deck before they get here, right?


----------



## Art Waring

Benjamin Olson said:


> So I used to be a lawyer (briefly), and my focus in law school was on intellectual property, and the last thing I want to touch with a ten foot pole is any discussion about OGL law here. I'm too far removed from the profession to speak with much authority or confidence, but too educated in the subject matter to not be very embarrassed if I said anything demonstrably incorrect. And a big free for all discussion of legal interpretation with lawyers and laypeople is pretty miserable even when you aren't in the third "sort of a lawyer" no mans land camp. And yet, at the same time, being aware of a discussion nearby (in real life or on the internet) about something where I know more about some of the pertinent aspects than many if not most of the participants and yet not then interjecting myself into the discussion goes against all my instincts both as a professional educator and as a know-it-all.
> 
> Truly it has been a banner week of not commenting in other threads for me.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## CleverNickName




----------



## Hussar

Mad_Jack said:


> I'll be so happy to be able to get back to edition wars and rules lawyering...



I mean, I kinda miss the days when we got threads locked over bitching about halflings.


----------



## payn

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 271561


----------



## Art Waring

CleverNickName said:


> View attachment 271561



Except most of the conversations I see are pretty civil and all...

Not to mention that you are kind of downplaying a situation that has already inflicted financial damage to many 3pp's and compromised an entire segment of the ttrpg industry.


----------



## Hussar

In other weirdness though, I did discover that I was blocked by someone and I have absolutely no idea why or when.  Totally bizarre.  Hadn't interacted with that poster in years, and don't ever remember it being a negative interaction.  Must have said something.  Has made following some of the recent conversations a bit tricky though.  Wish I could appologise for whatever I said.  Just one of those really out of left field things.


----------



## Art Waring

Hussar said:


> In other weirdness though, I did discover that I was blocked by someone and I have absolutely no idea why or when.  Totally bizarre.  Hadn't interacted with that poster in years, and don't ever remember it being a negative interaction.  Must have said something.  Has made following some of the recent conversations a bit tricky though.  Wish I could appologise for whatever I said.  Just one of those really out of left field things.



We have both had plenty of disagreements, but we are still both here, talking about the hobby we love. I don't personally want to ignore those who disagree because every human perspective is important, even if I think it is wrong.

Hopefully you can get that cleared up.


----------



## payn

Hussar said:


> In other weirdness though, I did discover that I was blocked by someone and I have absolutely no idea why or when.  Totally bizarre.  Hadn't interacted with that poster in years, and don't ever remember it being a negative interaction.  Must have said something.  Has made following some of the recent conversations a bit tricky though.  Wish I could appologise for whatever I said.  Just one of those really out of left field things.



I had a similar experience. I sent a PM apologizing for whatever I may have done to deserve a block. I also explained how I enjoy interacting with them on the discussions. I left it at that and didnt bother them again. I never received a reply back, but I was unblocked shortly after.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> I had a similar experience. I sent a PM apologizing for whatever I may have done to deserve a block. I also explained how I enjoy interacting with them on the discussions. I left it at that and didnt bother them again. I never received a reply back, but I was unblocked shortly after.



I'm sorry to both of you that that happened. It seems a curse of the internet medium that the risk of mutual misunderstanding is so acute. I myself consciously try to make my comments very clear on this forum and I also try never to write or act confrontationally with anyone. Even so, I've gone back over old posts of mine sometimes and noticed alarming divergences between what I meant and what a reasonable reader could interpret it to mean.

I fear this is just a burden of the digital age.


----------



## payn

South by Southwest said:


> I'm sorry to both of you that that happened. It seems a curse of the internet medium that the risk of mutual misunderstanding is so acute. I myself consciously try to make my comments very clear on this forum and I also try never to write or act confrontationally with anyone. Even so, I've gone back over old posts of mine sometimes and noticed alarming divergences between what I meant and what a reasonable reader could interpret it to mean.
> 
> I fear this is just a burden of the digital age.



Its a personal choice. You don't have to be rude or incendiary at all. If they don't want to hear your opinions they can block you for any reason. I think typically they do have good reason to, but its not always clear but that's how it works.


----------



## South by Southwest

payn said:


> Its a personal choice. You don't have to be rude or incendiary at all.



Exactly, and that's what I try to do. The problem I've hit sometimes is that even while consciously trying not to be rude or incendiary, sometimes people _justifiably_ read it as if it were. Subtext, I think, just gets really hard when we cannot see each other's faces and body postures. When the same conversations have been face-to-face, haven't they gone a lot more smoothly for you? They have for me.


payn said:


> If they don't want to hear your opinions they can block you for any reason. I think typically they do have good reason to, but its not always clear but that's how it works.



Yep, and PM with as much pride-swallowing as possible is about the only reliable remedy I've found.


----------



## trappedslider

South by Southwest said:


> Yep, and PM with as much pride-swallowing as possible is about the only reliable remedy I've found.



I've PM another poster in an effort to hopefully clarify and make sure no hard feelings.


----------



## Cadence

Interviewer: "You've always been the most popular pizza place in the area, but in the last poll you're also the most popular bar and have the highest rated pizza and atmosphere  (which you've had sometimes before), and for the first time the highest rated  calzones, pasta, delivery service, and catering.  What changes did you make to improve so dramatically - new recipes? new management? new training?"

Pizzeria owner: "We burned down the competition, duh!  ...  Oh crap, is this on the record!?!?"


----------



## trappedslider

You know the only thing stopping me from buying the lego sets I want is the lack of space


----------



## Galandris

South by Southwest said:


> Yep, and PM with as much pride-swallowing as possible is about the only reliable remedy I've found.




I am not certain that one sees PM sent by an ignored person?


----------



## overgeeked

Art Waring said:


> We have both had plenty of disagreements, but we are still both here, talking about the hobby we love. I don't personally want to ignore those who disagree because every human perspective is important, even if I think it is wrong.
> 
> Hopefully you can get that cleared up.



I try not to ignore people unless they get personal or crappy in their responses. Unfortunately, it’s still a fairly long list of people.


----------



## Malmuria




----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> You know the only thing stopping me from buying the lego sets I want is the lack of space



I'd say the same but just got my heating bill...


----------



## CleverNickName

*Scenes from Tasha's Pizzeria of Everything
Encore

Tasha's:*  Oh hello Mr. Landlord!  Your usual?  Plain cheese, easy on the cheese and sauce, right?
*Landlord: * Um, no thank you.  Listen, this is awkward...but I've decided to put a hamburger chain here.
*Tasha's: * Here?  At this location?
*Landlord:*  Yes.  I'm moving away from pizzas, and the analytics suggest hamburgers will be more profitable.  Here's the paperwork.
*Tasha's: * I see.  Well, that is certainly within your rights.  Thank you for giving me notice.
*Landlord:*  And thank you for your understanding.  Here's a book of hamburger recipes for you, too.
*Tasha's: * Oh that's okay, I'm going to keep selling pizzas.
*Landlord:*  (gasping)  What?  You can't do that!
*Tasha's:*  I can't do that _here, _you mean.  But I can lease the space across the street.
*Landlord:*  ...
*Tasha's:* The property owner is a friend of mine, and my customers will barely notice.
*Landlord:*  But your customers are all going to eat hamburgers from now on.
*Tasha's: * You think so?
*Landlord:* ...yes?


----------



## CleverNickName

(Hasbro would _totally _order that pizza.)


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> Its a personal choice. You don't have to be rude or incendiary at all. If they don't want to hear your opinions they can block you for any reason. I think typically they do have good reason to, but its not always clear but that's how it works.



Yeah, I have a number of people blocked, sometimes for being asshats, but sometimes just for consistently having opinions that make me pound my forehead on my desk. Life's too short to be tempted to argue with them every time I see them say something, so I just slapped them on ignore and improved both of our lives.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Yeah, I have a number of people blocked, sometimes for being asshats, but sometimes just for consistently having opinions that make me pound my forehead on my desk. Life's too short to be tempted to argue with them every time I see them say something, so I just slapped them on ignore and improved both of our lives.



I only have a few and its never because of what they say, it's always about how they say it. Also, how often.


----------



## CleverNickName

payn said:


> I only have a few and its never because of what they say, it's always about how they say it. Also, how often.



Same here.  I have only ever blocked a handful of people, and usually for really odious behavior like using sealioning people, hate-speech, or using dog whistles.  They don't last very long on ENWorld...they usually end up getting banned shortly after I block them...I've seen a handful of them in old threads, with strikes through their names.  Silly rabbits.

The last person I blocked wouldn't let me leave an argument.  They kept quoting and @ing me even after I had left the thread, demanding I come back and answer a question to their satisfaction.  When they started sending me direct messages, I blocked them.  I bet they're _still _shouting into the void, months later, trying to "win" that argument.

EDIT:  Huh.  I just checked, and my Ignore list is blank.  I guess the list drops them when they get banned from ENWorld?


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> EDIT:  Huh.  I just checked, and my Ignore list is blank.  I guess the list drops them when they get banned from ENWorld?



I still have some showing on my ignore list that have been banned for a while now.


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> I still have some showing on my ignore list that have been banned for a while now.



Huh.  That's weird, I remember ignoring a handful of clowns from the NuTSR/Star Frontiers nonsense a few months back...
...but my list is empty.


----------



## Cadence

CleverNickName said:


> Huh.  That's weird, I remember ignoring a handful of clowns from the NuTSR/Star Frontiers nonsense a few months back...
> ...but my list is empty.



A line through the name means banned, right?


----------



## CleverNickName

Cadence said:


> A line through the name means banned, right?



I think so?

I figured out my issue, btw.  A few months ago I got frustrated with all the cross-posting in one of my Survivor threads, and I removed everyone from my Ignore list to help reduce the amount of cross-posting.  But now that I'm not doing any more Survivor threads, I guess I can start rebuilding my Ignore list.  

So!  Who wants to give me their hot take on 4th Edition, or the skin complexion of elves?  Anyone?


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> So!  Who wants to give me their hot take on 4th Edition, or the skin complexion of elves?  Anyone?



I don't really have anything on elves, but let me tell you about 4th edition! They got some stuff right! They evened out the balance between fighters and wizards, and they created the Skill Challenge system to make skill rolls more tactically interesting. But they screwed some things up, too! Characters are too beefy, they usually survive first level! And characters become godlike at high level -- it's impossible to challenge them! I end up having to just figure out an attrition method to knock characters like wizards and clerics unconscious so I can provide an interesting tactical challenge to the remaining characters! I don't like to do that, I'd like it if they could remain weak so the challenges could be more evenly spread out, but I guess you have to break a few eggs to make omelets. And then there's the magic items! Gone are the days when a single _bag of holding_ was a great treasure for even a high-level character -- instead every character gets new items all the time, just buying and selling them, like some sort of free market economy! I put a stop to that in my games, let me tell you!

It's enough to make me hang up my 4th edition hat and go back to AD&D 1st edition!


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> So!  Who wants to give me their hot take on 4th Edition, or the skin complexion of elves?  Anyone?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

"I don't care because it doesn't effect me". Now where have I heard that said before?


----------



## Aeson

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> "I don't care because it doesn't effect me". Now where have I heard that said before?



Said by the vast majority of humans on earth?


----------



## Cadence

<delete>


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Aeson said:


> Said by the vast majority of humans on earth?



Those that can't figure out how to use their empathy.


----------



## Aeson

Levistus's_Leviathan said:


> Those that can't figure out how to use their empathy.



Their empathy was nerfed in the latest patch.


----------



## Cadence

I guess I appreciate the honesty in how you chose your username?


----------



## Cadence

Have they actually made it this far in the pepperoni thread without starting a pineapple derail!?!?  < Knock on Wood >


----------



## Asisreo

Wow. I do not know what's going on right now and I refuse to take a stance until I do.


----------



## CleverNickName

Asisreo said:


> Wow. I do not know what's going on right now and I refuse to take a stance until I do.


----------



## RealAlHazred




----------



## Cadence

Watching the episode in "The Toys That Made Us" series about Star Wars Toys... and Hasbro failing to send the annual check for $10,000 in 1991 that would have continued the Kenner contract that would have let them keep the original 5% (!?!?!) royalty deal in case something new ever came out   (The one negotiated for the prequels would be 18%).


----------



## overgeeked

Some people really need to turn off their attack dog mode.


----------



## trappedslider

all i want is bigger city food choices without any of the other big city stuff is that too much to ask for?


----------



## payn

trappedslider said:


> all i want is bigger city food choices without any of the other big city stuff is that too much to ask for?


----------



## overgeeked

“The strawman is strong with this one.”


----------



## Hussar

trappedslider said:


> all i want is bigger city food choices without any of the other big city stuff is that too much to ask for?



Oh, dude, I totally get where you're coming from.  I've got a weekend trip up to Tokyo next week and I'm going to do pretty much nothing but gorge myself stupid.  The area where I live in Japan has FANTASTIC Japanese food.  Really top notch. But, for anything else?  Sucks badly.


----------



## payn

Dems some sour grapes.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Dems some sour grapes.




_Sour grapes make the best vinegar_.
-Fred McFeely Rogers.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Mannahnin

payn said:


> I had no room on my list for cognac until I had me a good Sazerac.



Grr. And with Snarf's endorsement, too.

I always make my Sazeracs with whiskey, usually rye.  Now I'm going to have to go have a cognac one at a good bar, and I suspect I'll wind up wanting a bottle of cognac at home after that. :/


----------



## eyeheartawk

You know who wouldn't pull this OGL crap if he was in charge? 

Raven c.s. McCracken.


----------



## RealAlHazred

All I'm saying is, assume there's someone who is not only playing the game _wrong_, but is _talking other people_ into playing the game wrong. _That's _the guy I'm railing against! And I'll write wall after wall of text to establish my arguments against that guy and his badwrongfun ways!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Mannahnin said:


> Grr. And with Snarf's endorsement, too.
> 
> I always make my Sazeracs with whiskey, usually rye.  Now I'm going to have to go have a cognac one at a good bar, and I suspect I'll wind up wanting a bottle of cognac at home after that. :/




All Sazeracs are good Sazeracs. I once remember hearing that the very first Sazeracs were made with brandy (cognac), and that the change to rye came from necessity due to phylloxera wiping out the grapes back then. But like many stories about cocktails, perhaps that story is too good to be true.

Regardless, the Cognacerac is distinguished from the Ryezerac in that the cognac replaces the spice with a more floral and rounded character that complements the absinthe as well, but differently; whether this is "better" or "worse" is a matter for the individual observer, but it is certainly a welcome change on occasion.

It's always fun to experiment with the base; unless you're one of those vodka people- that's just wrong.


----------



## prabe

Mannahnin said:


> Grr. And with Snarf's endorsement, too.
> 
> I always make my Sazeracs with whiskey, usually rye.  Now I'm going to have to go have a cognac one at a good bar, and I suspect I'll wind up wanting a bottle of cognac at home after that. :/



That's the way I make mine, too. I figure that since American whiskeys came to replace brandies in lots of mixed drinks (something something disease in the vineyards) there's decent backing for it.

Also, the Sazerac company owns both Herbsaint and Peychaud's, so why not use something from Buffalo Trace--which they also own?


----------



## eyeheartawk

prabe said:


> That's the way I make mine, too. I figure that since American whiskeys came to replace brandies in lots of mixed drinks (something something disease in the vineyards) there's decent backing for it.



Except for my beloved Wisconsin Old Fashioned. 

Though, for that, the Pierre Ferrand stays in the bar. Korbel brandy only bay-beeeeeee


----------



## prabe

eyeheartawk said:


> Except for my beloved Wisconsin Old Fashioned.
> 
> Though, for that, the Pierre Ferrand stays in the bar. Korbel brandy only bay-beeeeeee



ON WISCONSIN

STAY CLASSY WISCONSIN


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

prabe said:


> ON WISCONSIN
> 
> STAY CLASSY WISCONSIN


----------



## eyeheartawk

One of my secret shames is that I want to be a Wisconsin Guy ™. 

I want to discuss the finer points of Usinger's sausage while sipping my Old Fashioned (sour) in a supper club decked out in head to toe Carhartt.


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> You know who wouldn't pull this OGL crap if he was in charge?
> 
> Raven c.s. McCracken.



He hasn't weighed in yet on the OGL on his own FB, but we know he had at least something of a grudge against WotC from back in the day, so I expect you're right.


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> One of my secret shames is that I want to be a Wisconsin Guy ™.
> 
> I want to discuss the finer points of Usinger's sausage while sipping my Old Fashioned (sour) in a supper club decked out in head to toe Carhartt.



Usinger's sausage and Widmer's cheese?


----------



## Gradine

trappedslider said:


>


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mannahnin said:


> Usinger's sausage and Widmer's cheese?



I could swear I remember buying Widmer's at Bobby Nelson's Cheese Shop in Kenosha when that was a thing. 

I was too cool for Mars Cheese Castle.


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> I could swear I remember buying Widmer's at Bobby Nelson's Cheese Shop in Kenosha when that was a thing.
> 
> I was too cool for Mars Cheese Castle.



I think I've only bought it direct from the cellar in Theresa, when visiting locals.  Although I think I may have gotten some of their cheese curds at the Green Dragon in Fond du Lac.


----------



## eyeheartawk

Mannahnin said:


> I think I've only bought it direct from the cellar in Theresa, when visiting locals.  Although I think I may have gotten some of their cheese curds at the Green Dragon in Fond du Lac.



The Wisconsin Life ™ is tempting, isn't it?


----------



## Mannahnin

eyeheartawk said:


> The Wisconsin Life ™ is tempting, isn't it?



Not so much anymore- I'm cutting down on my drinking.


----------



## CleverNickName

So many people need a hug, a kiss on the forehead, and a grilled cheese cut diagonal.


----------



## Ryujin

The Cheese Must Flow.


----------



## trappedslider

CleverNickName said:


> So many people need a hug, a kiss on the forehead, and a grilled cheese cut diagonal.



you offering?


----------



## CleverNickName

trappedslider said:


> you offering?



Sure!  I mean, as much as I'm able.
Being a fictional video game character and all.


----------



## RealAlHazred

CleverNickName said:


> So many people need a hug, a kiss on the forehead, and a grilled cheese cut diagonal.



New Jersey Version: So many people need a swift kick in the... butt. "SNAP OUT OF IT!"


----------



## Gradine

CleverNickName said:


> Sure!  I mean, as much as I'm able.
> Being a fictional video game character and all.



I've played FFIX, I know better than to trust a moogle in the kitchen


----------



## prabe

I feel as though someone should warn you about the engagement you have stumbled into.


----------



## Cadence

"That's a lot of work to put in to spoofing a pizza menu that adds pineapple!"

---

To a different post:  I will not use the laughing emoji to express my opinions of your thought process, I will not use...


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## RealAlHazred

trappedslider said:


>



★★★★☆
Bath bombs had a strange chemical smell, but it was definitely a life-changing experience. The smell was difficult to remove from my towels, though, so I'm removing one star from my rating. I recommend sharing with friends; they make an excellent gift!
-- Umbrella Customer Review #45181


----------



## Malmuria

Malmuria said:


> 1974: A DIY hobby consisting mostly in the shared imagination of players and the trading of fan zines*
> 2024: Fully monetized, self-proclaimed "lifestyle brand."  Fans cheer the opportunity to spend more money and proclaim the inherent benevolence of multinational corporations.




Also 2024: hubristic multinational corporation inadvertently causes everyone to homebrew their own rpg.  Meanwhile, due to a random tweet, megadungeons are back en vogue


----------



## Gradine

trappedslider said:


>


----------



## Ryujin

RealAlHazred said:


> ★★★★☆
> Bath bombs had a strange chemical smell, but it was definitely a life-changing experience. The smell was difficult to remove from my towels, though, so I'm removing one star from my rating. I recommend sharing with friends; they make an excellent gift!
> -- Umbrella Customer Review #45181



They're pretty expensive. Try not to lose any.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Why do people who love anime and manga think that everyone on Earth also does, and understands the random Japanese words they sprinkle into discussions? Is this a thing where Japanophiles typically associate mostly with fellow Japanophiles and think that everyone else _does_ love this stuff?

I don't actively _dislike_ any of this stuff, myself, but it's always jarring when there's an expectation that I know subgenres or conventions being referenced in Japanese. I can't think of anything comparable like this for other hobbies. Even the most ardent NFL fan doesn't expect someone who doesn't watch American football regularly to be able to explain what a "cornerback" is, for instance.


----------



## Gradine




----------



## Hussar

I think I will just summarize my feelings. 

Hoo boy. 

Yeah, that just about says it all. I’m not even pissed really. Just so so tired of it all. I just wanna play my pretend elf game. Is that too much to ask?


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Why do people who love anime and manga think that everyone on Earth also does, and understands the random Japanese words they sprinkle into discussions? Is this a thing where Japanophiles typically associate mostly with fellow Japanophiles and think that everyone else _does_ love this stuff?
> 
> I don't actively _dislike_ any of this stuff, myself, but it's always jarring when there's an expectation that I know subgenres or conventions being referenced in Japanese. I can't think of anything comparable like this for other hobbies. Even the most ardent NFL fan doesn't expect someone who doesn't watch American football regularly to be able to explain what a "cornerback" is, for instance.



Try sitting through a conversation between hard core computer/console gamers. FPS, DPS, "griefers"...


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> Try sitting through a conversation between hard core computer/console gamers. FPS, DPS, "griefers"...



...gish, munchkins, DPR, DMPC...


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

MarkB said:


> ...gish, munchkins, DPR, DMPC...



Anyone who uses the word "gish" without it being about a githyanki should be required to pay a fine of $1 per infraction.

("It's the common term!" Just with you and your fellow travelers, Todd.)


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

In other news, I fell into writers YouTube and it's extremely ... something.

Lots of millennial women in blindingly white backgrounds with cut flowers and "live, laugh, love" decor on the walls, talking earnestly about being a full-time writer. Looking at their Amazon sales, though, it looks like they're pulling in only about $100/month at most from book sales, which doesn't match up with their rhetoric. They're enthusiastic and successful hobbyists, not full-time writers. (For one thing, most full-time writers don't look like they're living in a Nora Ephron film.)

A lot of the actual writing advice ranges from fine to actually good, but the disconnect between the rhetoric and what's actually happening is weird.

Yet another odd subculture I had no idea existed until I put in the right search terms into YouTube.


----------



## CleverNickName

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> In other news, I fell into writers YouTube and it's extremely ... something.
> 
> Lots of millennial women in blindingly white backgrounds with cut flowers and "live, laugh, love" decor on the walls, talking earnestly about being a full-time writer. Looking at their Amazon sales, though, it looks like they're pulling in only about $100/month at most from book sales, which doesn't match up with their rhetoric. They're enthusiastic and successful hobbyists, not full-time writers. (For one thing, most ull-time writers don't look like they're living in a Nora Ephron film.)
> 
> A lot of the actual writing advice ranges from fine to actually good, but the disconnect between the rhetoric and what's actually happening is weird.
> 
> Yet another odd subculture I had no idea existed until I put in the right search terms into YouTube.



Check their number of subscribers, and the number of views each video gets.  For the ones who have numbers that are 100K and up, those book sales aren't where they are making their money...


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

CleverNickName said:


> Check their number of subscribers, and the number of views each video gets.  For the numbers that are 100K and up, those book sales aren't where they are making their money...



Yeah, I know. It feels like a bit of bait and switch.

For the writer nerds, I used to have a subscription to Writers Digest back in the day, so I'm used to all this advice and "I've published two things, so I am now an expert" kind of stuff. But with the ability to self-publish nowadays (mostly a good thing, I think), that changes who can say they're a published author and if their version of "make your professional writer dreams come true" is make $100/month (which ain't nothin', let me be clear), it's all pretty strange for me to reengage with after all this time. (My version of "professional writer" is someone who doesn't have to do anything other than be a writer for a living. That probably means technical writing or doing PR or something less than glamorous, but it's writing and it also builds up the skills for fun stuff like fiction or poetry.)

I stumbled into this looking at videos about how to better use Scrivener, which I downloaded, in part, to do #dungeon23 with and will probably use for NaNoWriMo at some point, along with my regular everyday writing, as it matches how I work better than trying to wrangle a long document in Google Docs or Word. But it's a bit like asking for a product demonstration and finding myself falling through the looking glass.


----------



## overgeeked

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Yeah, I know. It feels like a bit of bait and switch.
> 
> For the writer nerds, I used to have a subscription to Writers Digest back in the day, so I'm used to all this advice and "I've published two things, so I am now an expert" kind of stuff. But with the ability to self-publish nowadays (mostly a good thing, I think), that changes who can say they're a published author and if their version of "make your professional writer dreams come true" is make $100/month (which ain't nothin', let me be clear), it's all pretty strange for me to reengage with after all this time. (My version of "professional writer" is someone who doesn't have to do anything other than be a writer for a living. That probably means technical writing or doing PR or something less than glamorous, but it's writing and it also builds up the skills for fun stuff like fiction or poetry.)
> 
> I stumbled into this looking at videos about how to better use Scrivener, which I downloaded, in part, to do #dungeon23 with and will probably use for NaNoWriMo at some point, along with my regular everyday writing, as it matches how I work better than trying to wrangle a long document in Google Docs or Word. But it's a bit like asking for a product demonstration and finding myself falling through the looking glass.



I use Scrivener. I’m not an expert with it but I might be able to help. What do you need help with?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

overgeeked said:


> I use Scrivener. I’m not an expert with it but I might be able to help. What do you need help with?



Just getting up to speed. It's front-loaded with a very different way of working. I'm 99% sure I get it, but wanted to look through the videos to make sure there wasn't anything big I was missing.


----------



## Asisreo

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Why do people who love anime and manga think that everyone on Earth also does, and understands the random Japanese words they sprinkle into discussions? Is this a thing where Japanophiles typically associate mostly with fellow Japanophiles and think that everyone else _does_ love this stuff?
> 
> I don't actively _dislike_ any of this stuff, myself, but it's always jarring when there's an expectation that I know subgenres or conventions being referenced in Japanese. I can't think of anything comparable like this for other hobbies. Even the most ardent NFL fan doesn't expect someone who doesn't watch American football regularly to be able to explain what a "cornerback" is, for instance.



Sounds like you're not sushi enough to fully konichiwa the conversations going on in japanese. Maybe study a Kawaii or two.


----------



## Malmuria

Scrivener is excellent.  I would say you can only learn the features you want to use at the moment to get writing.  As you go along you'll learn/use new things (or not).  I still haven't gotten my head around all the different things Scrivener can do when you export, but then I don't really need those features so I haven't spent that much time learning.


----------



## overgeeked

Malmuria said:


> Scrivener is excellent.  I would say you can only learn the features you want to use at the moment to get writing.  As you go along you'll learn/use new things (or not).  I still haven't gotten my head around all the different things Scrivener can do when you export, but then I don't really need those features so I haven't spent that much time learning.



Yeah. Export is wild. Took me several tries to get the hang of it and all the functionality it has. Very robust program and man are there a lot of options.


----------



## RealAlHazred

Asisreo said:


> Sounds like you're not sushi enough to fully konichiwa the conversations going on in japanese. Maybe study a Kawaii or two.



"Desu tsundere," or whatever. Gesundheit!


----------



## South by Southwest

_*"All this egg and only one face -- how will it ever fit??"

"Oh, it'll fit."*_


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> In other news, I fell into writers YouTube and it's extremely ... something.
> 
> Lots of millennial women in blindingly white backgrounds with cut flowers and "live, laugh, love" decor on the walls, talking earnestly about being a full-time writer. Looking at their Amazon sales, though, it looks like they're pulling in only about $100/month at most from book sales, which doesn't match up with their rhetoric. They're enthusiastic and successful hobbyists, not full-time writers. (For one thing, most full-time writers don't look like they're living in a Nora Ephron film.)
> 
> A lot of the actual writing advice ranges from fine to actually good, but the disconnect between the rhetoric and what's actually happening is weird.
> 
> Yet another odd subculture I had no idea existed until I put in the right search terms into YouTube.



Check out Overly Sarcastic Productions (specifically Red's Trope Talks) and Hello Future Me if you haven't yet. They're more focused on story/writing analysis and "how to use specific storybeats well" than "here's how to become a professional writer", but I've found them to be super useful as an aspiring writer.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

Today’s serious thought for unserious people…

The M3GAN sequel will be called:

1. MEG4N
2. M4GAN
3. M3G4N
4. 2Fast2M3GAN
5. M2GAN 2: Electric Boogaloo


----------



## overgeeked

I miss Hakuho. I loved his mawashi and tachiai. He was the greatest yokozuna of all time. He had the best oshidashi in the business.


----------



## Aeson

payn said:


> Dems some sour grapes.



Let's keep politics out of it.


----------



## R_J_K75

I Didn't Comment in Another Thread....because it seems every thread the last 2 weeks is about the OGL 1.1


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## payn

R_J_K75 said:


> I Didn't Comment in Another Thread....because it seems every thread the last 2 weeks is about the OGL 1.1



Im sure all will be answered on the 13th.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

payn said:


> Im sure all will be answered on the 13th.



Zero chance that this will be an issue anyone is at all worried about on the 14th.


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## R_J_K75

payn said:


> Im sure all will be answered on the 13th.



Is that when the OGL 1.1 is released? I havent been following it much at all


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## eyeheartawk

Time for more unused meme dump.


----------



## Cadence

"Why are you spending so much effort doing this thing that probably won't change anything?" is apparently most effective when posted multiple times?


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## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Im sure all will be answered on the 13th.




Achilles: So, guess what my new job is?

Zeno: Let me guess .... "You want fries with that?"

Achilles: Ha ha. No! I'm in charge of Hasbro's licensing! 

Zeno: Oh ... oh.... oh no Achilles. I've heard ... I've heard things ....

Achilles: I know, right! Leverage! Monetize! Synergy! Return on Investment! I know words. I know the best words!

Zeno: Uh ... Achilles ... you might want to know that there's been a little, um, kerfuffle over things ....

Achilles: Oh, that? Don't worry. I'm going to clear it all up with a big announcement. I have just the day to do it, too!

Zeno: When?

Achilles: January 13th. 

Zeno: You're going to make your announcement on the 13th .... Friday the 13th?

Achilles: YEAH BUD! I got this thing down!


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## R_J_K75

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Achilles: So, guess what my new job is?
> 
> Zeno: Let me guess .... "You want fries with that?"
> 
> Achilles: Ha ha. No! I'm in charge of Hasbro's licensing!
> 
> Zeno: Oh ... oh.... oh no Achilles. I've heard ... I've heard things ....
> 
> Achilles: I know, right! Leverage! Monetize! Synergy! Return on Investment! I know words. I know the best words!
> 
> Zeno: Uh ... Achilles ... you might want to know that there's been a little, um, kerfuffle over things ....
> 
> Achilles: Oh, that? Don't worry. I'm going to clear it all up with a big announcement. I have just the day to do it, too!
> 
> Zeno: When?
> 
> Achilles: January 13th.
> 
> Zeno: You're going to make your announcement on the 13th .... Friday the 13th?
> 
> Achilles: YEAH BUD! I got this thing down!



IDK why but this reminded me of thus commercial


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## CleverNickName

It's been 33 years, and we've not received further instructions from Technotronic.

And so I think, with deep regret, it's time to deflate the jam.


----------



## Cadence




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## overgeeked

It's so weird when people who clearly don't engage with the OSR in any way at all make snarky comments about the OSR. Yes, there's absolutely a lot of room for criticism in that space, of that space, and a lot of stuff people in that scene need to address. But a lack of creativity and innovation is absolutely _not_ one of their problems.


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## RealAlHazred

overgeeked said:


> It's so weird when people who clearly don't engage with the OSR in any way at all make snarky comments about the OSR. Yes, there's absolutely a lot of room for criticism in that space, of that space, and a lot of stuff people in that scene need to address. But a lack of creativity and innovation is absolutely _not_ one of their problems.



It's true, though -- OSR writers lack creativity! They're all about edginess! Contrast that to my _completely original_ creation, Melbinster the Magician, who wanders the Misbegotten Realms, and you can see what true creativity is!


----------



## eyeheartawk

RealAlHazred said:


> It's true, though -- OSR writers lack creativity! They're all about edginess! Contrast that to my _completely original_ creation, Melbinster the Magician, who wanders the Misbegotten Realms, and you can see what true creativity is!



What about my totally original hero. 

Okay, get this:

He's like a renegade, really goes against the grain. His whole society is evil, but he wants to be good..._What? Elric? No, not Elric..._
Anyway, he's like, really cool, has an internal, tortured monologue always resenting his native culture but wanting to be a part of it. But! He also has TWO totally rad swords and a black panther! This dude rules!


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

RealAlHazred said:


> It's true, though -- OSR writers lack creativity! They're all about edginess! Contrast that to my _completely original_ creation, Melbinster the Magician, who wanders the Misbegotten Realms, and you can see what true creativity is!


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


>


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Cadence said:


> "Why are you spending so much effort doing this thing that probably won't change anything?" is apparently most effective when posted multiple times?



The investment people have in other people not changing things for the better always amazes me. What a terrible way to live one's life.


----------



## Mannahnin

'Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.'
-H.L. Mencken


----------



## RealAlHazred

I rarely start threads asking for details about things; I like to do my own research. So, when I start a thread "Asking for Fictional Settings in [Genre]" and people keep responding with games set in [Genre] many of which use Real World setting details, it's a little disheartening. It's like if I created a thread asking for "Games Which Include [Character Type]" and people jumped in to link to Their Favorite Game Thing, saying "If you use [X] and [Y] alternate rules, and include [Z] homebrew additions, it looks exactly like [Character Type]!"

I blame online booster culture. If you're not making a post boosting [Thing You Feel You Have a Personal Stake In], then what are you even doing online? What, trying to have a conversation? HOW DARE YOU!?!


----------



## overgeeked

Mannahnin said:


> 'Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.'
> -H.L. Mencken



If nothing else the spirit of all this is really energizing.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Please, please, please grammar and spell check your Kickstarter campaign page. If even your campaign _asking me for money_ has typos and mangled syntax, I cannot trust your eventual product won't be a mess.

I back a _lot_ of campaigns and what saves me from spending even more on crowdfunding is how many times I think "oh, this looks like a great idea ... I think ... what are they _saying_ here?"

If anyone has ever said they are confused by your writing or has pointed out errors, put your ego aside and have a third party edit your campaign for you.


----------



## prabe

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> If anyone has ever said they are confused by your writing or has pointed out errors, put your ego aside and have a third party edit your campaign for you.



This is probably your point--or a magnification of it--but this is probably everyone.


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## eyeheartawk

I'm so cynical and apathetic to the state of the world right now, the state of which you can pretty much _always_ trace back to giant greedy corporations in some way, that I'm willing to let my hobby burn to the ground; have it cease to exist, just to rub some dirt in corpo eye.


----------



## J.Quondam

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm so cynical and apathetic to the state of the world right now, the state of which you can pretty much _always_ trace back to giant greedy corporations in some way, that I'm willing to let my hobby burn to the ground; have it cease to exist, just to rub some dirt in corpo eye.



I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling like this. It's like literally everything nowadays must ultimately be reduced to a few bloated money-sucking vampire squids grubbing through the ashes of civilization in search of loose change.


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Please, please, please grammar and spell check your Kickstarter campaign page. If even your campaign _asking me for money_ has typos and mangled syntax, I cannot trust your eventual product won't be a mess.
> 
> I back a _lot_ of campaigns and what saves me from spending even more on crowdfunding is how many times I think "oh, this looks like a great idea ... I think ... what are they _saying_ here?"
> 
> If anyone has ever said they are confused by your writing or has pointed out errors, put your ego aside and have a third party edit your campaign for you.



Funny thing is that, in my managerial days, I would go through resumes the same way. With a resume, however, there's also the "too good" end of things. As someone managing tech support and technical writing I needed to know how the prospective employee wrote, not the resume mill that they hired to write if for them.

Every published author that I know _hires_ a proof reader to go over the final daft. I've done proofing on a couple of books as a first pass.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

J.Quondam said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling like this. It's like literally everything nowadays must ultimately be reduced to a few bloated money-sucking vampire squids grubbing through the ashes of civilization in search of loose change.









_
As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And you’ll need the cocaine. Tape recorder for special music. Acapulco shirts. Get the hell out of dodge for at least 48 hours._


----------



## Ryujin

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And you’ll need the cocaine. Tape recorder for special music. Acapulco shirts. Get the hell out of dodge for at least 48 hours._



Can't wait to hear what the _therapist_ says.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Ryujin said:


> Funny thing is that, in my managerial days, I would go through resumes the same way. With a resume, however, there's also the "too good" end of things. As someone managing tech support and technical writing I needed to know how the prospective employee wrote, not the resume mill that they hired to write if for them.
> 
> Every published author that I know _hires_ a proof reader to go over the final daft. I've done proofing on a couple of books as a first pass.



I am a professional writer, although I know my dashed-off posts here don't often look that way prior to me catching typos on second or third read. 

I always want at least two edits on my pieces and will often get colleagues to look at my work _before_ the editing stage and after I've run my work through Hemingway.app to catch the most egregious issues. (My sentences are often too long, which it's good about flagging.)


----------



## overgeeked

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And you’ll need the cocaine. Tape recorder for special music. Acapulco shirts. Get the hell out of dodge for at least 48 hours._



I prefer absurdism to nihilism.

_“We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers...and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.”_


----------



## eyeheartawk

overgeeked said:


> I prefer absurdism to nihilism.



We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

eyeheartawk said:


> We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing.



Say what you will about Lawful Evil, but at least it's an ethos.


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I am a professional writer, although I know my dashed-off posts here don't often look that way prior to me catching typos on second or third read.
> 
> I always want at least two edits on my pieces and will often get colleagues to look at my work _before_ the editing stage and after I've run my work through Hemingway.app to catch the most egregious issues. (My sentences are often too long, which it's good about flagging.)



I'm curious if culturally we are just becoming more and more informal or I'm just old now and act like the squares I made fun of as a younger man?


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## prabe

payn said:


> I'm curious if culturally we are just becoming more and more informal or I'm just old now and act like the squares I made fun of as a younger man?



My money would be on both.


----------



## payn

prabe said:


> My money would be on both.



Yeah all the emails and slack bits I go through with my partners at work are driving me mad. Too many emojis which is acceptable professionally now. I just want to belt out...


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I am a professional writer, although I know my dashed-off posts here don't often look that way prior to me catching typos on second or third read.
> 
> I always want at least two edits on my pieces and will often get colleagues to look at my work _before_ the editing stage and after I've run my work through Hemingway.app to catch the most egregious issues. (My sentences are often too long, which it's good about flagging.)



I used to run my stuff through the crappy Word tool. I had one boss who insisted that I should never write anything that was rated over a grade 9 student's comprehension. He'd read it in some industry article once, way back. I got tired of that really quickly.


----------



## Ryujin

payn said:


> I'm curious if culturally we are just becoming more and more informal or I'm just old now and act like the squares I made fun of as a younger man?



The answer is, "Yes."


----------



## Snarf Zagyg

payn said:


> Yeah all the emails and slack bits I go through with my partners at work are driving me mad. Too many emojis which is acceptable professionally now. I just want to belt out...




I read somewhere that using punctuation in texts is considered rude by the youngest generation. And then I was like, "Oh, that explains a lot."

wait no oh that explains a lot


----------



## payn

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I read somewhere that using punctuation in texts is considered rude by the youngest generation. And then I was like, "Oh, that explains a lot."
> 
> wait no oh that explains a lot



lol, youngsters dont understand what a thumbs up emoji means so thats our next frontier of communication...


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Ryujin said:


> I used to run my stuff through the crappy Word tool. I had one boss who insisted that I should never write anything that was rated over a grade 9 student's comprehension. He'd read it in some industry article once, way back. I got tired of that really quickly.



Write to the level of your audience. It's probably not ninth graders.

That said, I think writing obscurely needs some major justification. Lawyers can justify it. But academics and government officials typically do so as a gatekeeping measure, and that's a problem, IMO.


----------



## Ryujin

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Write to the level of your audience. It's probably not ninth graders.
> 
> That said, I think writing obscurely needs some major justification. Lawyers can justify it. But academics and government officials typically do so as a gatekeeping measure, and that's a problem, IMO.



If I'm writing or speaking to laymen about IT issues, then I couch it in terms they can understand. Lot's of similes and metaphors are used. If my audience is technical, I step it up a few notches. This boss wanted me to essentially insult other techs, by condescending to them.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

Ryujin said:


> If I'm writing or speaking to laymen about IT issues, then I couch it in terms they can understand. Lot's of similes and metaphors are used. If my audience is technical, I step it up a few notches. This boss wanted me to essentially insult other techs, by condescending to them.



Yeah, that would be bad.


----------



## trappedslider

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Today’s serious thought for unserious people…
> 
> The M3GAN sequel will be called:



I'm going to go see it tonight


----------



## overgeeked

Information repackaging is awesome. Just don’t talk down to your audience.


----------



## billd91

Totally worth it!
-- Today's cryptic post


----------



## Cadence

Even more than last time...
I guess I appreciate the honesty in how you chose your username?

----

Also, that other one makes much more sense than when I read it as PETA!


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots

In unrelated news, this sauce is fantastic on air-fried chicken strips.


----------



## payn

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> In unrelated news, this sauce is fantastic on air-fried chicken strips.



Looks good!


----------



## trappedslider

WB cafe menu circa 1941


----------



## Ondath

trappedslider said:


> WB cafe menu circa 1941



A cup of coffee costs 200 dollars when adjusted for inflation.

Finally, we have found Starbucks's progenitor!


----------



## eyeheartawk

I regret nothing.


----------



## payn

eyeheartawk said:


> I regret nothing.


----------



## Scribe

eyeheartawk said:


> I'm so cynical and apathetic to the state of the world right now, the state of which you can pretty much _always_ trace back to giant greedy corporations in some way, that I'm willing to let my hobby burn to the ground; have it cease to exist, just to rub some dirt in corpo eye.


----------



## Hussar

Ondath said:


> A cup of coffee costs 200 dollars when adjusted for inflation.
> 
> Finally, we have found Starbucks's progenitor!



Aren't those prices in cents, not dollars?  After all, I'm having a tough time believing that pork and beans with bread is 45 bucks, even now.

Which would make that cup of coffee actually about 2 bucks in todays money.  Seems a bit more reasonable.


----------



## Ondath

Hussar said:


> Aren't those prices in cents, not dollars?  After all, I'm having a tough time believing that pork and beans with bread is 45 bucks, even now.
> 
> Which would make that cup of coffee actually about 2 bucks in todays money.  Seems a bit more reasonable.



That... would make so much more sense.

But I'll stick with the dollar denomination for comedic effect.


----------



## CleverNickName

If I thought Corpo would even notice me rubbing dirt in its eye, I'd be right there with ya.

I guess I'm pretty jaded also.


----------



## Asisreo




----------



## payn

Asisreo said:


> View attachment 271995


----------



## Malmuria

trappedslider said:


> WB cafe menu circa 1941
> View attachment 271951



“Steaks, chops, chicken, etc” would be a great name for a restaurant


----------



## Malmuria

This company certainly has interesting timing…


----------



## Gradine

Asisreo said:


> View attachment 271995



Ketchup and Mac n Cheese is incredible


----------



## trappedslider

Malmuria said:


> “Steaks, chops, chicken, etc” would be a great name for a restaurant



I think I would order 
Pork Chops .50
Au gratin potatoes .20
Green Peas .20
Seltzer Lemonade .20
_
Total: $1.10 before any taxes  

As an aside I found a whole Reddit filled with vintage menus. Think once a week, a new thread asking readers to order from a menu that I'll post.






						r/VintageMenus
					

r/VintageMenus: Old menus - pre-1985.




					www.reddit.com


----------



## Hussar

People don’t put ketchup on Mac and cheese? I’m…. Confused.


----------



## CleverNickName

Hussar said:


> People don’t put ketchup on Mac and cheese? I’m…. Confused.



It's about as confusing as putting pineapple on pizza in the USA.

Which is to say, not all that confusing.


----------

