# LMoP [ooc]



## mips42

As the other thread was not 'mine' and the original poster seems to have vanished, I'll create a new one...

_More than five hundred years ago, clans of dwarves and gnomes made an agreement known as the Phandelver’s Pact, by which they would share a rich mine in a wondrous cavern known as Wave Echo Cave. In addition to its' mineral wealth, the mine contained great magical power. Human spellcasters allied themselves with the dwarves and gnomes to channel and bind that energy into a great forge (called the Forge of Spells), where magic items could he crafted. Times were good, and the nearby human town of Phandalin prospered as well. But then disaster struck when ores swept through the North and laid waste to all in their path.
A powerful force of orcs reinforced by evil mercenary wizards attacked Wave Echo Cave to seize its riches and magic treasures. Human wizards fought alongside their dwarf and gnome allies to defend the Forge of Spells, and the ensuing spell battle destroyed much of the cavern. Few survived the cave-ins and tremors, and the location of Wave Echo Cave was lost.
 Now there are rumors that the entrance to this wondrous cave may have been found..._

If there it still interest in playing The Lost Mine beginning adventure, I'd be willing to run it. I'm toying with the idea of saying pregens only but am not tied to that decision.


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## Guest 11456

I would like to grab a spot.


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## Hannerdyn

I'd be happy to. I'm new to pbp but not to rpgs, hope that's not an issue.


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## SuperZero

I'm interested. I have read through part of the adventure, though, if that's a problem.


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## mips42

I'd like to get one more if we can, just so that I don't have to re-level the whole thing.
 New to PBP is not a problem.
 As long as you can separate player knowledge from character knowledge (I'm presuming you can), It's not an issue.
 Unlike the other game I am currently running, I figure on this one I'll handle most of the dice rolls to speed things up. But, I'll likely still have players roll for things here and there. If you wan to use actual dice, an online dice roller or dice app on a phone or tablet, it's cool.
 I plan on running as much 'theater of the mind' as I can (few, if any maps) which means we all need to be descriptive in what our people look like and are doing. If there is a question of whether or not your character said something, they said it.
 I try very hard to let all players have a say in what is happening so, if your character is non-committal or you feel they don;t really have anything to add, I would still like a post saying 'bob the dwarf looks at his party to lead' or something letting me know that you've seen the post but don't really have much to add.
 Finally, have fun and don't be a jerk.


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## tuxgeo

I would be interested in playing in LMoPh. I'm currently in only one other game (Li Shenron's "Wolf's Den" here on EN World), so I do have time available for it. 

I have the PHB on order, and am tracking it through eBay: it left Des Moines, Iowa, a bit after 2 AM on Thursday, heading for the west coast of the US. I have some understanding of the non-Basic races and classes, but would be happy with a Pre-Gen if that's the criterion. (They are all well-connected to the plot of the piece.)


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## mips42

That brings us to for possibles and so, the question then becomes 'pregens or full Basic'?
 I have no strong feelings either way and would be fine with either. As I don't have the PHB, I'm going to say PHB content is very unlikely to be approved.
 Cast a vote and I'll let you have your say. In the event of a tie, my vote is full Basic but keep the adventure hooks from the pregens.


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## Hannerdyn

My vote would be for full basic.


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## SuperZero

Full basic, why not?
I'll likely use one of the pre-gens with some tweaking anyway (I don't know the setting well, and they have built-in relevant backgrounds), though.


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## mips42

Alright then, full Basic it is. Yes, pull relevant background if you can make it fit, if not don't worry too much. Post characters when you're ready.


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## SuperZero

Started with the pregen wizard and made some changes. I'm flexible, though, so if somebody else wants the wizard I can come up with something different.







*Name*: Caelynn Amastacia
*Race*: High Elf
*Class*: Wizard
*Alighnment*: Chaotic Good
*Personality*: She uses polysyllabic words that convey the impression of erudition. Also, she's spent so long in study that she has little experience dealing with people on a casual basis.
*Ideal*: Knowledge. Caelynn believes the path to power and self-improvement is through knowledge.
*Bond*: The tome she carries with her is the record of her life's work so far, and no vault is secure enough to keep it safe.
*Flaw*: She'll do just about anything to uncover historical secrets that would add to her research.
*Height*: 5' 3"
*Weight*: 135 lbs
*Language*: Common, Elvish, Draconic, Dwarvish, and Goblin
*Looks*: Caelynn is a bit on the short side for an elf, although she's only slim compared to humans. She has dark eyes and long dark hair tied back with a piece of ribbon. Her robe is simple and sturdy, though perhaps somewhat more ornate and colorful than is practical--why not, when she can clean it with magic? She wears leather boots and a plain dark brown cloak.
*Background*: Sage (Researcher).
*Background Feature*: When you attempt to learn or recall a piece of lore, if you do not know that information, you often know where and from whom you can obtain it. Usually, this information comes from a library, scriptorium, university, or a sage or other learned person or creature. Your DM might rule that the knowledge you seek is secreted away in an almost inaccessible place, or that it simply cannot be found. Unearthing the deepest secrets of the multiverse can require an adventure or even a whole campaign.

*Hit Points*: 8/8
*Strength*: 8 (-1)
*Dexterity*: 15 (+2)
*Constitution*: 14 (+2)
*Intelligence*: 16 (+3)
*Wisdom*: 12 (+1)
*Charisma*: 10 (+0)
*Size*: Medium
*Speed*: 30 feet
*Initiative*: +2
*Armor Class*: 12 AC (15 w/Mage Armor)
*Hit Dice*: 1d6
*Saving Throws*: Str -1, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +5, Wis +3, Cha +0
*Passive Wisdom (Perception)*: 13
*Wizard Features*:
*Arcane Recovery*: Caelynn can regain some of her magical energy by studying her spellbook. Once per day during a short rest, she can choose to recover expended spell slots with a combined level equal to or less than half her wizard level rounded up (1).
*Elf Features*:
*Darkvision*: She sees in dim light within a 60-foot radius of her as if it were bright light, and in darkness in that radius as if it were dim light. She can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
*Fey Ancestry*: She has advantage on saving throws against being charmed, and magic can't put her to sleep.
*Trance*: Elves don't need to sleep. They meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day and gain the same benefit a human does from 8 hours of sleep.

*Proficiency - Skills*: Arcana, History, Investigation, Nature, and Perception
*Proficiency - Armor*: None
*Proficiency - Weapons*: Daggers, darts, light crossbows, longbows, longswords, slings.
*Proficiency - Tools*: None
*Skills*: Acrobatics (+2), Animal Handling (+1), Arcana (+5), Athletics (-1), Deception (+0), History (+5), Insight (+1), Intimidation (+0), Investigation (+5), Medicine (+1), Nature (+5), Perception (+3), Performance (+0), Persuasion (+0), Religion (+3), Sleight of Hand (+2), Stealth (+2), Survival (+1)


*Melee Attack*: Dagger (+4; 1d4+2 Piercing; melee or thrown 20/60)
*Spell Attack*: +5
*Spell Saving Throw DC*: 13
*Spellcasting*:
_Cantrips_: Mage Hand (V, S), poison spray (V, S), prestidigitation (V, S), ray of frost (V, S)
_Spellbook_: Detect magic (V, S; ritual), mage armor (V, S, M), magic missile (V, S), shield (V, S), sleep (V, S, M), thunderwave (V, S)
_Spell Slots_: 2/2 1st-level
_Spells Prepared _(4): Mage armor, shield, sleep, thunderwave

*Wealth*: 10 gp
*Equipment*: Total weight/carrying capacity - 120 lbs (Push/Drag/Lift 240 lb)
Dagger
Spellbook
Arcane Focus (Crystal)
A backpack, a bedroll, a mess kit, a tinderbox, 10 torches, 10 days of rations, and a waterskin. The pack also has 50 feet of hempen rope strapped to the side of it.
A bottle of black ink, a quill, a small knife, a letter from a dead colleague posing a question you
have not yet been able to answer, a set of common clothes, and a belt pouch
A book that tells the story of a legendary hero's rise and fall, with the last chapter missing


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## tuxgeo

I'm working on one, but I'm doing it by hand from source documents, and I have to jump around a lot to find information. This may take a while. 
(If someone else wants to build a cleric, I can try a halfling fighter instead.)  

Concept: "Eddicus Deane," CG Human Criminal Cleric of Oghma -- looking to include the "Reconsecrate the Defiled Altar" plot hook from the pre-gens. 

He's in favor of better times for civilization, but he finds entrenched interests getting in the way of the spread of knowledge. ("They _burn_ the books they don't agree with!") 

Consequently, he _smuggles_--rare books at first, but other things later. He's always looking to set up contacts and safe locations along alternate pathways that might have good potential for development. ("If they don't know you have the book, they won't be coming around to grab it for their bonfire.") 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

*Eddicus Deane, CG Human Criminal Cleric of Oghma *
Human feature: +1 to each ability score. Point buy (27 points) gives this: 


		Code:
	

ABILITY SCORES: 
Point  Bought  Racial  Final
Costs  Values  Adjust  Scores
=====  ======  ======  ======
   1   STR  9    +1    STR 10
   9   DEX 15    +1    DEX 16
   3   CON 11    +1    CON 12
   4   INT 12    +1    INT 13
   5   WIS 13    +1    WIS 14
   5   CHA 13    +1    CHA 14


* Quick details*: 
*Size* Medium; *Speed* 30; *Alignment* CG; *Languages* Common and Dwarvish 
*Hit Dice*: 1d8 of 1d8 
*Hit Points*: 9 
*AC* 18 (<= Studded Leather gives 13, add DEX mod. of 3, +2 for Shield) 

*Melee Attack*: Dagger: +5 to hit, 1d4 +3 damage 
*One-handed Ranged*: Dart: +5 to hit, 1d4 +3 damage
*Two-handed Ranged*: Shortbow*: +5 to hit, 1d6 + 3 damage
_* Eddicus will be wearing his shield most of the time while adventuring, but if he needs a longer shot than a dart can give him, it only takes an action to remove his shield._

*Background*: CRIMINAL (skills: Deception & Stealth; one type of gaming set; thieves' tools). 
*Bkgd. Feature*: You have a reliable and trustworthy contact who connects you with other members of the underworld. 
*Class*: CLERIC (skills: Insight & Persuasion; Lt. & Med. Armor; Shields; Simple weapons) 
*Saving Throws*: WIS, CHA 
*Spellcasting*: 
_Cantrips_: Light, Mending, Sacred Flame 
_Prepared Slots_: 3  (= WIS modifier of 2 + level of 1) 
. . . Default list of spells prepared: Guiding Bolt, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith
_LIFE Domain Spells_: Bless, Cure Wounds _(both always prepared; bless requires concentration)_
_Casting Slots_: 2 per day
_Spell Save DC_: 12 -- _[Yes, it's weak; but he's planning on fighting with weapons for the most part, so that's largely alright.]_

*Personality*: I always have a plan for what to do when things go wrong. Also, I would rather make a new friend than a new enemy. 
*Ideal*: Freedom. Chains are meant to be broken, as are those who would forge them. (Knowledge is power, and Knowledge shared is knowledge multiplied.) 
*Bond*: Rare and important books were taken from their worthy owners by force, and I aim to find a few of those books and return them to safety. 
*Flaw*: I can sometimes turn tail and run when things look bad. 

*Worldly Goods*: Starting Gold [rolled 5d4 to get 2-2-1-4-3] = 12 X 10 = 120 GP
Equipment: 
• A Priest's Pack, consisting of backpack, blanket, 10 candles, 
tinderbox, alms box, 2 blocks of incense, censer, vestments, 2 days of 
rations, and a waterskin 
• A holy emblem of Oghma 
• Traveler's clothes 
• Studded Leather Armor (AC = 13 + DEX modifier) 
• Shield (+2 AC) 
• Shortbow (1d6 piercing, range 80/320), with 2 quivers holding 20 arrows each 
• 8 Darts (1d4 piercing, Finesse, thrown (range 20/60)) in another quiver 
• Dagger (1d4 piercing, Finesse, light, thrown (range 20/60)) 
• Healer's kit 
• pouch containing coins equal in value to 3 GP, 1 SP 
Trinket: [rolled #82: Half of a floorplan for a temple.]

*Adventure connection*: Eddicus had a dream showing a defiled altar to Oghma in an ancient ruin now called Cragmaw, and now dedicated to the goblins' deity Maglubiyet. Eddicus seeks to reconsecrate the altar to Oghma again. The visions also suggest that Sister Garaele (priest of Tymora) in Phandalin can help.


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## shadowefil

Are you still accepting players?  I'm interested, though I don't have much experience with PBP rpgs.


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## mips42

Shadoefil: Sure, A fifth is fine.


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## Hannerdyn

Sorry, I need to bow out. One too many games going on. Good adventuring!


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## mips42

Maldavos said:


> Sorry, I need to bow out. One too many games going on. Good adventuring!




I understand. be well.


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## mudbunny

Maldavos said:


> Sorry, I need to bow out. One too many games going on. Good adventuring!




With this player no longer in, is there room for a fifth?


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## mips42

Well, yes. I've not gotten responses from everyone though so I'm not sure at this point how many we really have.


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## mudbunny

mips42 said:


> Well, yes. I've not gotten responses from everyone though so I'm not sure at this point how many we really have.




I will keep an eye on the thread and if it is clear there is room for a fifth, I will jump in with one of the pregens, whichever one is left.


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## mips42

*Last call*

Anyone (other than mudbunny) still interested I need a reply with character (unless already posted) so I can either try to recruit more or declare this DOA.
 Thanks.


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## tuxgeo

So far, the participants seem to be Tailspinner (post #2), SuperZero (post #4), tuxgeo (post #6), shadowefil (post #13), and mudbunny (post #17). 
We were going to have Malkavos (post #3), but he had to bow out (post #15). 

SuperZero and I have posted characters, above. I can change to a different character if somebody wants to play a cleric (or if the idea of adventuring with a criminal cleric is off-putting). _Since mips42 didn't mention anyone_, here goes:   @_*Tailspinner*_ ,   @_*shadowefil*_ ,   @_*mudbunny*_  -- if you would each post a PC to this thread, I think there's a good chance that mips42 could get started running the adventure.


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## mudbunny

I'll grab the fighter from the pregens and post up the info later on today.


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## mips42

There is now a rogue gallery for characters so we can see who we have.


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## mips42

[MENTION=11456]Tailspinner[/MENTION] [MENTION=6778706]shadowefil[/MENTION] [MENTION=56746]mudbunny[/MENTION] If you want in, post characters. If that means we go with 3, then we go with 3. 

​


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## mudbunny

Posting up the info for the Folk Hero Fighter from the Starter Set pregens now.


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## PierceSG

Is it to late to jump into the party? 
If it ain't, I would love to join the game but I would need a little time to go through my new PHB(!) to create the new character. 

Edit: I missed the part about pre-gen, so is it still pre-gen only?  And don't worry about it, I do not mind pre-gen, just asking.


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## SuperZero

Not all pre-gen, but Basic only. The pre-gens do have some nice built-in relevant backgrounds that we've been drawing from.
(Oh, just realized I never actually put it on her sheet--I'm pulling part of the pre-gen cleric's background for my character, since our cleric's not using it. The "Teach the Redbrands a lesson" bit, although instead of mercenaries they remind her of a bullying wizard-to-be apprenticed to the same mage.)


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## mips42

PierceSG said:


> Is it to late to jump into the party?
> If it ain't, I would love to join the game but I would need a little time to go through my new PHB(!) to create the new character.
> 
> Edit: I missed the part about pre-gen, so is it still pre-gen only?  And don't worry about it, I do not mind pre-gen, just asking.




Hello again pierce! As was previously stated, 5e Basic (I don't have the PHB). If you want in, post a character in the rogue gallery and we'll get this party started.


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## GameDoc

Not sure if you have a full crew or not, but I'll keep an eye on the threads and if you need another I'm interested.

I see you have a wizard, cleric, and ranged fighter.  I'd be fine with being a rogue or a melee fighter.


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## mips42

At this point, I'm taking the first 4-6 I get, so get while the gettin's good.


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## GameDoc

I went with a dwarf fighter.

Looks like we need a rogue (although the cleric is looking kind of roguish himself).


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## PierceSG

GameDoc said:


> I went with a dwarf fighter.
> 
> Looks like we need a rogue (although the cleric is looking kind of roguish himself).




Rogue it is then.  Give me a few.


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## mips42

We've got five! And it's a solid looking party. I'll get the play thread up as soon as I can.

Play on!


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## GameDoc

Awesome!  

Anyone recommend a good web-based dice roller?


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## mips42

Invisible Castle seems to be the online roller of choice. If you want to link to the roll, use the one labelled BBCode.


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## GameDoc

Thanks!

Gonna tweak my character history slightly to better fit your opening narration on the game thread.


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## mips42

In case it somehow got missed, I have yet to see posts in the IC thread from: [MENTION=56746]mudbunny[/MENTION] & [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION]. 

 The game is afoot, ladles and jelly-spoons.


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## mudbunny

mips42 said:


> In case it somehow got missed, I have yet to see posts in the IC thread from: [MENTION=56746]mudbunny[/MENTION] & [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION].
> 
> The game is afoot, ladles and jelly-spoons.




GAHHH!!!

Will post something IC tomorrow.


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## tuxgeo

I'm glad I caught this before the party actually set out toward Phandalin: 

I had listed the "Mending" cantrip for Eddicus, but that is not part of the Basic Set. (Yes, I found it in the PHB, instead.) 

I'll edit his posting in the Lost Mine Rogue's Gallery to replace "Mending" with something else, and I'll include his attack spells as Special Attacks under "Offense."

Of the spells which Eddicus either knows or habitually prepares, the following spells require Material components: Bless, Light, Sanctuary, and Shield of Faith. He'll rely on his "Holy Emblem of Oghma" as a divine focus to replace those components, since none of those components have any prices listed.


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## mips42

Don't feel too bad, I didn't catch it either. I'm not too worried about spell components and such. Unless you want to do otherwise, I just figure that clerics and wizards and other casters pick up those things 'off-camera'.


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## mips42

Not that it matters, really, but the whole rain thing was just some additional flavor and to give you all a chance to RP a bit more.


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## PierceSG

No worries, I am having fun here with the rogue. I think I might have done up my Human Fighter a bit too plain in your other game. :/


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## mips42

Mudbunny?


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## mudbunny

Sorry, was out of town since friday afternoon with no internet access (there was supposed to be.) I will be responding in a couple of hours.


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## mips42

Due to extenuating life circumstances, I no longer have reliable, regular access to the internet. It sucks, but there you are. I would like to attempt to continue the game, if possible but need to make sure you all know what is going on so you can vote yea or no. What say you all?


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## mudbunny

I am still good to go.


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## tuxgeo

I am ready to continue as circumstances allow. 

I hope your life situation stabilizes in a useful and appreciable manner, mips42.


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## mips42

Does anybody know if Superzero is still about? I don't think they've posted since the opening...
Tux: You and me both. If God never gives more than a person can handle, I must be a badass.


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## PierceSG

No problem mips42.


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## mips42

[MENTION=6690219]SuperZero[/MENTION] you still with us?


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## tuxgeo

mips42 said:


> Does anybody know if Superzero is still about? I don't think they've posted since the opening . . .




 @_*SuperZero*_ last posted in this game on 24th September. It may be time to recruit somebody else to play Caelynn.

_Edit: . . . and that was the date of his last activity on EN World, according to the information on his profile._


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## mips42

Okay then, and they were one of the ones that got this started...


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## mips42

As SuperZero seems to have become Sir NotAppearingInThisFilm. I am hoiping to get a replacement player. Either taking over the character of Caelynn or a new character to replace her. Hopefully we'll get some interest.


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## toasterferret

I'd be down to fill your empty spot.  Can I get some details on the game/party so far?


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## mips42

game so far: gundren rockseeker asked the group to guard a wagon load of mining supplies from the city of Neverwinter to the town of Phandalin so that he and a few trusted associates could verify finding the lost Mine of Phandalin. During the trip, the party found a pair of dead horses that they verified belonged to Gundren. All the saddlebags and a large map case had been emptied. The party was ambushed by a small group of goblins but were eventually able to run down all of the little beasties.  A brief search located a goblin trail that led into the woods and, eventually, to the mouth of a small cave. Which is where we are now.
 The party:
 Brachnuss - Male human Greatweapon fighter
 Eddicus - Male human cleric
 Garrett - Male Halfling rogue
 Vottr - Male Dwarven fighter

 So, some magic would be good but feel free to play whatever class you'd like.
Generally, you are free to roll your own dice but I will roll if you'd prefer. I try to narrate results rather than post the actual numbers. I would rather you play your character than play the numbers anyways.
 I will say that sometimes replies can be a bit delayed on my part due to my work schedule but I try to post as often as I can.


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## toasterferret

Alright, sounds good.  I can roll up a magic user of some variety.  

Character creation rules?


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## tuxgeo

toasterferret said:


> Alright, sounds good.  I can roll up a magic user of some variety.
> 
> Character creation rules?




The criteria when we started were "full Basic," keeping the adventure hooks from the pregens for Lost Mine of Phandelver: 



mips42 said:


> That brings us to for possibles and so, the question then becomes 'pregens or full Basic'?
> I have no strong feelings either way and would be fine with either. As I don't have the PHB, I'm going to say PHB content is very unlikely to be approved.
> Cast a vote and I'll let you have your say. In the event of a tie, my vote is full Basic but keep the adventure hooks from the pregens.




Our DM, mips42, can give you more precise details.


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## mips42

Yep, full basic. Rollin of stats, using point-buy and the standard array are all acceptable choices. Please keep to Basic as I do not own the PHB.


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## toasterferret

Sounds good.  Ill post a character some time tomorrow.


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## toasterferret

Upon reviewing the basic rules, I'm afraid I'm going to have to pull my name back out of the hat.  5E is brand new to me and I'm really excited to explore it, but I find the basic rules a bit too restrictive, especially for wizards.  (only evocation focused, restricted spell list, etc.)

Sorry guys!


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## tuxgeo

With toasterferret pulling back out, is it time to change the title of this thread once again? Perhaps if the title said something like, "RECRUITING A DIFFERENT REPLACEMENT. AGAIN. STILL," then we might get more interest from someone else. 

(My guess is that those who saw the first effort to replace SuperZero have stopped reading this thread on account of thinking that toasterferret has it covered.)


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## tuxgeo

Here's another new thought: 

If it were hypothetically possible for one or all of the current players to provide a 5E PHB to mips42, would mips42 have the time and will to alter the parameters of the adventure to the degree of allowing non-Basic PCs, with the potential effect that toasterferret might be invited again to complete the party?


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## mips42

I appreciate the thought. I've been considering opening the doors anyways (and allowing existing players to re-spec if they choose).


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## mips42

If someone wants to get me a present anyways, I'm not gonna complain...


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## mips42

Okay. After some consideration, I've decided to open the game to PHB. If any of the existing players would like to change or modify their characters please let me know and we'll work on that. For any prospective players, PHB is fair game. I just ask that you be patient with me as I don't own one.


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## toasterferret

If PHB is on the table then im back in. 

Sorry If I caused any trouble!  I can post a character tomorrow.


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## mips42

no worries. I'd been considering it since the player disappeared. Look forward to resuming play. If it's okay with all, once Ferret's character is done I'll just 'handwave' them in.


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## toasterferret

Quick question, I have no real preference between these options, so what would you guys like to have?

Warlock, Archer Bard, Archer Edritch knight?


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## tuxgeo

For my tastes, I would like to see a primary spellcaster. Of the options you listed, the Warlock seems to fit that description best. 

Among our existing PCs, our Human Fighter has a longbow and our Halfling Rogue has a shortbow, so we have a fair amount of ranged power; and our dwarf and our cleric have thrown weapons for the same purpose.


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## toasterferret

Introducing Ivan Kakarov, a researcher from Damaran who may have delved too deep into the mysteries of the outer realms.

[SBLOCK=Ivan]


Name: Ivan Kakarov
Sex: Male
Race: Human (Variant)
Class/Level: Warlock 1
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Size: Medium
Init: +2
Passive Perception: 13

DEFENSE 
AC: 13 (11 Leather Armor, +2 Dex)
HP: 10 (1d8 +2 Con)
Saves: Wisdom & Charisma

OFFENSE
Speed: 30ft
Melee: Dagger +4 Attack, 1d4+2 Piercing
Ranged: Light Crossbow +4 Attack 1d8+2

STATISTICS
Str 8 (-1), Dex 14 (+2) , Con 14 (+2), Int 10 (+0), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 16 (+3)

SKILLS Proficies in bold, 1 Human, 2 Warlock, 2 Background
Mod Attribute Name of Skill
+2 (dex) Acrobatics
+1 (wis) Animal Handling
*+2 (int) Arcana
*-1 (str) Athletics
*+5 (cha) Deception
**+2 (int) History*
+1 (wis) Insight
+3 (cha) Intimidation
+0 (int) Investigation
+1 (wis) Medicine
+0 (int) Nature
*+3 (wis) Perception
*+3 (cha) Performance
+3 (cha) Persuasion
+0 (int) Religion
+2 (dex) Sleight of Hand
*+4 (dex) Stealth 
*+1 (wis) Survival

Languages: Common, Elven, Primordial, Deep Speech

BACKGROUND FEATURES Sage
Feature: Researcher 
Skill Proficiencies: History, Perception

Traits: I’m convinced that people are always trying to steal my secrets.
Ideal: Nothing should fetter the infinite possibility inherent in all existence.
Bond: I have an ancient text that holds terrible secrets that must not fall into the wrong hands.
Flaw: The eldritch mysteries I research and my pact with the Old Ones are slowly driving me mad.

Feats: 
Spell Sniper:
Double range on attack roll spells, ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover, learn cantrip (Shocking Grasp)


CLASS FEATURES
- Spellcasting: Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your spells. The saving throw DC to resist a spell you cast is 13. Your attack bonus when you make an attack with a spell is +5.
Proficiencies Light armor, simple weapons
Otherworldly Patron (Great Old Ones)
Pact Magic

Spells Known:
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Shocking Grasp, Minor Illusion
1st Level: Hex, Dissonant Whispers

Spells per short rest: 1x1st Level

Physical Appearance:
Tall and lanky, Ivan has dark hair and piercing blue eyes.  He wears a goate and dresses in robes over leather armor, both of which are in varying states of disarray, depending on the day.  He can sometimes be seen reading feverishly out of a heavy leather-bound book when he thinks nobody is watching.
[/SBLOCK]


----------



## mips42

toasterferret said:


> Introducing Ivan Kakarov, a researcher from Damaran who may have delved too deep into the mysteries of the outer realms.
> 
> [SBLOCK=Ivan]
> View attachment 65370
> Name: Ivan Kakarov
> Sex: Male
> Race: Human (Variant)
> Class/Level: Warlock 1
> Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
> Size: Medium
> Init: +2
> Passive Perception: 13
> 
> DEFENSE
> AC: 13 (11 Leather Armor, +2 Dex)
> HP: 10 (1d8 +2 Con)
> Saves: Wisdom & Charisma
> 
> OFFENSE
> Speed: 30ft
> Melee: Dagger +4 Attack, 1d4+2 Piercing
> Ranged: Light Crossbow +4 Attack 1d8+2
> 
> STATISTICS
> Str 8 (-1), Dex 14 (+2) , Con 14 (+2), Int 10 (+0), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 16 (+3)
> 
> SKILLS Proficies in bold, 1 Human, 2 Warlock, 2 Background
> Mod Attribute Name of Skill
> +2 (dex) Acrobatics
> +1 (wis) Animal Handling
> *+2 (int) Arcana
> *-1 (str) Athletics
> *+5 (cha) Deception
> **+2 (int) History*
> +1 (wis) Insight
> +3 (cha) Intimidation
> +0 (int) Investigation
> +1 (wis) Medicine
> +0 (int) Nature
> *+3 (wis) Perception
> *+3 (cha) Performance
> +3 (cha) Persuasion
> +0 (int) Religion
> +2 (dex) Sleight of Hand
> *+4 (dex) Stealth
> *+1 (wis) Survival
> 
> Languages: Common, Elven, Primordial, Deep Speech
> 
> BACKGROUND FEATURES Sage
> Feature: Researcher
> Skill Proficiencies: History, Perception
> 
> Traits: I’m convinced that people are always trying to steal my secrets.
> Ideal: Nothing should fetter the infinite possibility inherent in all existence.
> Bond: I have an ancient text that holds terrible secrets that must not fall into the wrong hands.
> Flaw: The eldritch mysteries I research and my pact with the Old Ones are slowly driving me mad.
> 
> Feats:
> Spell Sniper:
> Double range on attack roll spells, ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover, learn cantrip (Shocking Grasp)
> 
> 
> CLASS FEATURES
> - Spellcasting: Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your spells. The saving throw DC to resist a spell you cast is 13. Your attack bonus when you make an attack with a spell is +5.
> Proficiencies Light armor, simple weapons
> Otherworldly Patron (Great Old Ones)
> Pact Magic
> 
> Spells Known:
> Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Shocking Grasp, Minor Illusion
> 1st Level: Hex, Dissonant Whispers
> 
> Spells per short rest: 1x1st Level
> 
> Physical Appearance:
> Tall and lanky, Ivan has dark hair and piercing blue eyes.  He wears a goate and dresses in robes over leather armor, both of which are in varying states of disarray, depending on the day.  He can sometimes be seen reading feverishly out of a heavy leather-bound book when he thinks nobody is watching.
> [/SBLOCK]




1: I'm presuming you're going with the Tome Pact, therefore I believe you should have a total of 5 cantrips, 2 for being a Warlock and 3 more for your Tome pact. 
2: As a feat replaces an ability increase, it would normally not be available until 4th level unless there is some other thing happening that I am unaware of.
 Other than that, looks okay to me. If someone who has the PHB could verify, I'd appreciate it.
 BTW, not that it matters but, as soon as I read the name I pictured a bear of a guy in a big fur coat with a Franz Josef or Friendly Muttonchops and a bad Russian accent.


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## toasterferret

Humans can choose a variant that gives them a feat and two +1 ability increases and a skill instead of the 5 +1 ability increases, and I don't get my pact boon until level 3.  I will be choosing tome though.

He also certainly has a russian accent.


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## mips42

Fair enough. Comrade.


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], are you still taking? What is current roster, any holes? I would play chaos sorcerer if that is alright, but I can take any role needed.


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## mips42

Officially, no. But, as I am not above a challenge, I could take a 6th. Current roster:
Brachnuss - Male human Greatweapon fighter
 Eddicus - Male human cleric
 Garrett - Male Halfling rogue
 Vottr - Male Dwarven fighterIvan - Male Human Tome Warlock

​


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## Neurotic

Excellent. This is PbP. You'll have no trouble with six 

I'll whip up a char later today (I'm at work now). First level chaos sorcerer. Probably half-elf...

EDIT:  [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], how will we (actually you) treat wild surges? I remember seeing something along the lines:
roll d12 after long rest. after you cast such number of spell levels, the surge is auto-triggered, roll 1d10
after this new limit is reached, trigger surge, roll 1d8 etc...

Adjust as needed for caster level (maybe start at only d4 or d6?) - as caster levels, the dice increases, showing his better control over chaotic energies...

There is also fixed chance or simply your whim  I'd just like to know in general...of course, the character will NOT know 

There is also 10 000 (yes ten thousand) version of wild surge list ... most powerful is becoming demigod (I think), but petrification, other planes and potted plants are all options.


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## mips42

Other than 'I was behind you the whole time' / chaos accident, getting you in as a prisoner of the Goblins would be easiest but I'm not sure how long it'll be before the current players get there.
 As for wild magic surges, My thought is to have a Wild Magic Surge roll (yours or mine, don't care) for each spell after you choose to use the Tides of Chaos ability until a short rest is had AND if you get a natural 1 or 2 on a spell attack. I know this isn't quite RAW but it puts them about where I think they should be.
 You manipulate fate (Tides of Chaos), weird things are gonna happen. You fumble your casting, weird things are gonna happen. Also, standard Wild Magic table.


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## mips42

RG can be here or http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358740-Lost-mine-Rogue-Gallery

As I furiously re-balance things...


----------



## GameDoc

toasterferret said:


> He also certainly has a russian accent.




In Soviet Damara, feat chooses human at first level.

(Welcome aboard)


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## Neurotic

mips42 said:


> As for wild magic surges, My thought is to have a Wild Magic Surge roll (yours or mine, don't care) for each spell after you choose to use the Tides of Chaos ability until a short rest is had AND if you get a natural 1 or 2 on a spell attack. I know this isn't quite RAW but it puts them about where I think they should be.
> You manipulate fate (Tides of Chaos), weird things are gonna happen. You fumble your casting, weird things are gonna happen. Also, standard Wild Magic table.




Just to point out: after I use Tides of Chaos, you can simply roll on the Surge table whenever you feel like it, no roll is neccessary (but the spell is  so I don't blow up while playing music  )


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## mips42

Neurotic says his char is ready and I will be bringing them in a bit later so don't feel like you have to wait on them. just a fyi.

 Unrelated side note: I got a chance to look through a DMG today. Definitely on the drool list.


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## tuxgeo

It's getting easy to notice that it's a festive, holiday season: PbP posting is getting a bit thin on the ground, not only in this LMoP game, but in others as well. 

As long as I'm posting this: _Festive Noel to any who celebrate the season!_


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## toasterferret

Truth.


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## mips42

Yeah, I pretty much am in a holding pattern in my other games as well.
May whatever you celebrate for whatever reason be happy and joyous. Now I gotta go get the pole outta the attic.


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## tuxgeo

According to his profile, mudbunny's last activity was on 9 December 2014.

There's a "Send email" link on that page; perhaps we shall need to use it as time goes by.


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## mips42

Done.


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## mips42

I'm thinking that if we've not heard from Mud by the 1st, we'll move on. thoughts?


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## Neurotic

*OOC:*


Not yet active player, but here are my 2c.

If anyone disappears on the game without notice for over three weeks (longer then average vacation) and now holiday season, I say he deserves to get kicked off the game. I've played games where three days out of touch without announcement was automatic dismissal - true, only two in five years of PbP, but still...you've been patient.

I don't mind waiting until 1st since I'm not playing. You could create a rule (and put it in an intro post) about absence so that players know they should notify you of any long absences.


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## PierceSG

I don't mind with waiting pass 1st of January, but to be honest, Neurotic got the right idea.


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## tuxgeo

I recall mudbunny's having been an active member, or organizer, of the community on the WotC boards. Maybe he left a notice of absence there. I'll do some more looking around. If it's a WotC group thing, they may be taking a long weekend including the 1st-2nd-3rd-4th of Jan. 2015. 

If I find anything, I'll add it here. 

Edit to add: After 20 minutes of searching: No such luck. Mudbunny seemingly has only 1 post on the new WotC forums.


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## mips42

Well I got a reply to the email saying he was still in. However, I d really like to pick up the overall pace a bit but I'm not sure what a 'reasonable' time to wait really is. For some reason I'm thinking no more than 3 days but I'm not sure that's enough. Waffle waffle.


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## Neurotic

*Theory of quick postings - to be refined*

How about 48 hours after your last post? (2 days more or less depending on time differences) - if we're in combat you'll use one of the at-will options (basic attack, cantrip, whatever) for the character and we go on.

And if someone knows he will be offline, then he / she designates temporary "handler" for the character so that DM doesn't have to think about it.

Finally, if there is no comment after 48 hours and we're not in combat, that character simply kept silent and in background.


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## Neurotic

*Maps*

On 4e living worlds there was a tendency to use google docs (tables) as maps. The advantage is that you can keep hit points, stats (AC, to hit etc) on the sheet and movement control (which there are plenty of in 4e) so that everyone has current situation regarding the movement (and forced movement).

Just a suggestion.

Since we're first level and I have whole of 2 spells which can trigger the surge, would you consider triggering the surges when I hit with 20 (or 1) on various spell rolls regardless of "surge check"


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## mips42

as far as the GoogleDocs thing goes, honestly, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Could you clarify?
 As far as Surges go, Yes, this is almost exactly what I had in mind (I was only thinking of 1 or 2 but 1 and 20 is virtually the same) and I have no preference as to who rolls the surge results.


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## Neurotic

You take empty google tables sheet. You create the map by coloring the squares in green, brown, blue, putting letters for character names and monsters, marking with special colors difficult terrain etc...and on the second sheet or next to the map you put monster AC and MBA (so that players can roll their own OAs against themselves if they trigger some) - this saves you the work of evaluating who triggers what in case the monster dies before the end of the round. See example below.

https://docs.google.com/a/sps186.or...jpQtW7SddGo5dTdzWEU3dk1kdWhFdmZGZjB2Z0E#gid=0


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## tuxgeo

Happy Monday! It is now the 5th of January, 2015 - and the long New Year's holiday weekend is _over_! 

In my hungle opinion, it's about time to pick up the pace of posting with this adventure, even if it's only to post such things as, "Eddicus swings: He misses!"

Who's due to act next? (Do we still need an Initiative roll for Brachnuss from mudbunny? Can mips42 roll that for him?)


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## mips42

Tux, It's me. I'm working on getting positioning so I know who I can kill, er... ummm... Yeah. 

What you all think?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r892tXOAd9fuH9PaGU9qasQoE1vjKd8IkzmJPeOE4BU/edit?usp=sharing

On an unrelated note, I am now the owner of a 5e DMG. Can't wait to start going through it.


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## tuxgeo

I looked at your docs.google map, and I think you might be able to use another color for the non-grassy bit where the trail goes into the cave -- _or not_, because that bit is less than a square wide according to the map-fragment you posted. (Eddicus should be sort of near H-18 or I-18: out of sight behind briars, but within a single turn's speed of engaging in melee with the foe.) 

On a completely unrelated topic, here's another question: if you have the DMG, do you also have the MM? 
The reason I ask is that I'm trying to conceive of a 5E human druid as a thought-exercise, but his name keeps trying to be Sedgewick Conchrain. 
OK, he might eventually be able to learn "Conjure Animals" and cast that spell to _make it Rain Conchs_; but what are the stats of molluscs in the MM? (I'm guessing there aren't any. . . .)


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## mips42

I had a quick look through a MM and saw no stats for mollusks. As a pure guess, Str 1 Int 1 Wis 1 con 5 cha 1, 3 HP, AC 14, Size Tiny (if falling upon a foe, treat as a small rock).


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## mips42

So, quick opinion: Actual map, posted via link as before or google sheet map as Neurotic suggested. I have no strong feelings either way and am happy to go with the group on this but do NOT want to do both.


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## tuxgeo

My preference would be to go with the actual maps, because that way we get more of the full effect of the published module.


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## Neurotic

Google. Because you have coordinates, because you can move your character where you want on your turn so that everyone after you knows exactly where your character is without having to read through all posts, same for forcibly moved monsters.

Maybe compromise in which we get to see the original map once and then play on google doc?


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## toasterferret

[roll=1d20+5]Attack Roll[/roll]
[roll=1d10]Eldritch Blast[/roll]


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## tuxgeo

For what it's worth: 

IMHO: in the IC thread, the "mention" of Vottr should have been to  [MENTION=53915]GameDoc[/MENTION]. (FYI)


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## mips42

Tux, I hear what you're saying. The mention number was for Gamedoc while the text said Vottr. It was my understanding that the number was what was mattered for notification but I could be wrong about that.


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## tuxgeo

I don't know what a "mention number" is, so I can't comment intelligently about that. 

If you go to your post #235 in the IC thread, which is linked in my post #104 (above), and try to "Reply with Quote" to that #235, you'll see that it has the text "Vottr" between the opening and closing MENTION tags. I had been thinking that this meant that the system tried to notify (nonexistent?) user "Vottr" about the posting. 

Maybe GameDoc can clear this up for us, thus: Hey  @_*GameDoc*_, did you receive a Notification about being MENTIONed from mips42's post #235 in the IC thread?

_Edit to add: You're right, I was wrong: clicking on the link at the Vottr mention does lead to the Profile of GameDoc._


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## tuxgeo

If we need some alternative online dice-rollers for use when Invisible Castle is down (which is rather often): 

CoyoteCode roller
Orokos.com
ROLZ.org
Unseen Servant


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## Neurotic

Also, Dice-roller - has user names, history of rolls etc...


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## mips42

And we're back with the 12 hour shifts. I'll post as often as I can.


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## tuxgeo

I'm putting this post here in order to unclutter the IC thread. 

When appropriate, Eddicus will attack one of the dogs. He rolled Init 14 earlier IC; however, we hadn't had a call for initiative rolls at that time, so I don't know whether that counts. I believe I should keep waiting for an official call for initiative (or other clarification) before posting further IC in this situation. 

If I don't need to keep waiting, please let me know.
When it's Eddicus' turn, he'll probably attack one of the dogs using Sacred Flame, then rush forward while drawing his dagger.


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## mips42

Tux, there really wasn't a general initiative call, I dealt with it organically. If you'd like Eddicus to try and wedge in you can do so. I will let you know, though, that you'll be hard pressed to get in to where you can do much. Here's a quick graphic for ya.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/651590/Hide3.png


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## tuxgeo

Thanks for map, mips42. That makes things much clearer. 

You're right: Edd can't get into melee there: there's no place for him to stand; so I had him advance, throw a dart at Dog1, and withdraw again to get out of the way of Ivan. 

As an aside: the built-in dice roller on EN World (the "roll" tag) hates me. My post in the IC thread contains about the fourth "Natural 1" I've gotten for damage in the last month or so (and even that won't even count, unless a 9 hits the dog).


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## mips42

okay, so apparently Tux can no longer post in threads due to a account issue which means that Eddicus is down. Brachnus was already sketchy at best which means that, at present, we have Vottr, Garret and Ivan as active players in the current scenario. 
What do you say  [MENTION=24380]Neurotic[/MENTION], want in early?


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## Neurotic

*OOC:*


Can't wait


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## tuxgeo

[ . . . as the disappointed/disappointing poster comes limping back . . .] 

Thanks to CanadienneBacon (in another campaign) for checking with Morrus and PirateCat on my behalf. As you can see, I now have posting ability again. 

If it's alright with everyone, I would like to continue playing Eddicus in this game. I regret my over-reaction over the past several days to my having lost connectivity here. It shouldn't happen again. (I doubt I'll be changing my e-mail address here again.)


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## Neurotic

I still have nightmares about the time I changed my credit card  I've announced it in advance to Morrus, I followed the steps...and promptly got awarning and then lost the subscription  Now, the payday is moved two days from what it was before, but I still pay the original not punitive one. Important thing is not to give up.

Good to have you back.

 [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], that absolutely doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to come in early


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## mips42

If anyone is interested, I am working on setting up LMoP on Roll20 so I don't have to recreate the map every time I update it and you'd all be welcome to view if you'd like. If there is interest, I'll share the link. If not, I still plan on posting a link to the updated map(s) in the regular posts.


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## mips42

For any interested, here's the Roll20 link:

https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/744380/enworld-lost-mine

I've set it up so that anyone can move any character piece but only I can move creatures so, if you sign in, feel free to adjust things as needed.


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## tuxgeo

I haven't set up a roll20 login yet, so I can't see anything there yet. Maybe I'll have to do that this week.

_(Edit Edit: Yeah, that was uncalled-for on my part.)_


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## tuxgeo

FYI: GameDoc's last activity on EN World is listed as having occurred 12th March, 2015; that's 3 weeks ago as of today. 

This may be the cause of the fact that initiative IC is still on Vottr.


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## tuxgeo

Dang, I sure hope the party runs into Leonan soon. With only two active posters (me and PierceSG) ("and a dog named Bee"), the party is majority-DMPCs now. (Brachnuss, Ivan, and now Vottr aren't being played by their players; only Eddicus and Garret are.) 

Alas that mudbunny and then toasterferret and now GameDoc have stopped posting in this adventure!

_Edit: Strikeout erroneous reason for posting this. (Leave the valid reason intact.)_


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## Neurotic

*OOC:*


It happens a lot. I've played on 4e forums and more often then not, at least two players would stop posting. People don't realize that although not as time consuming as real life game, it still takes time and fairly regularly. I think it is easier to organize live session every two weeks or so for some hours then taking 10-20 minutes actively following several games. Even one might take so much time in combat posts especially in 4e where it was all codified.

I found it the best for PbP with easy moving, codified actions and such...except for interrupts that got in the way and had to be announced in advance or left to DM to use.
As you can see, I still follow  but I cannot access the map from work...so I'll post in the evenings like now.


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## mips42

GameDoc did post recently (you may have missed it).
Leonan is quite near, you have only to find him...


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## tuxgeo

*OOC:*


Yep, I missed it. I think I must not have had enough coffee this morning when I looked at the IC thread, because that looked to my aged eyes like two consecutive posts by mips42. (I should upgrade from Sumatran to espresso for reduced AM visual bleariness?)


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## Neurotic

Dig through the trash! Maybe the dogs simply didn't devour him yet and stashed him in a larder!


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## mips42

Unless he says otherwise, I am presuming that Leonan is speaking to the Goblins in the goblin language. It's up to him to say otherwise.


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## Neurotic

Yes, of course. Unless they speak in common first...

But well educated and trained voice esp. one not made for growling and squeeking...I'd guess I can be recognized as not-goblin by a well placed Perception check?


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], how well does Leonan know the warrens? Was he a prisoner, always walking the same route (dogs, creak) or was he occasionally taken through the tunnels to entertain, repair or heal?


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## mips42

Good question.
 Leonan is very familiar with the dog cave and the cave that he was held in. He knows Yeemik as the leader of the goblins and that there is someone called Klarg that Yeemik despises and wants out but he's not seen them.
 He's heard mention of a secret weapon.
 He knows that there are, or were a total of about 20 goblins in the cave and that, according to Yeemik, this is only a small portion of the Cragmaw tribe.
 Leonan knows that the other prisoner was brought in about a day and a half ago and has been in and out of consciousness since then. 
 The goblins have mentioned someone called King Grol but he's apparently not been here since Leonan has.


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=82463]PierceSG[/MENTION], [MENTION=100541]toasterferret[/MENTION], initiative?

 [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], can you roll for them in...say...24 hours? It does not cost them any resources and we can go on, they can decide later what their combat actions will be.


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## PierceSG

Please go ahead and roll my initiative for me. It would be faster that way instead of waiting for me.


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], can we move on?


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## Neurotic

I'll be on vacation trip for the following week, little to no access to internet. I'll try to post as I get the chance.


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## mips42

[MENTION=53915]GameDoc[/MENTION] you still with us?


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## GameDoc

Still here.  All the bad weather in Oklahoma has left me with a spotty connection the last few weeks.


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## Neurotic

I'm back! No action while I was gone? Oh, my turn


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## Neurotic

Maybe it would help to mark the goblins by numbers on the map so when they change positions (maybe not important in this fight, but in general) or drop or need to be referenced for other purposes (so it could be G1, G2 or GA1 (goblin archer 1), GW1 (goblin warrior 1 ) etc...

Alternatively, mark the map with coordinates A-Z 1-26 (adjust as needed) for easier reference to positions and movement


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## mips42

Went with option A and implemented as of now. Thx for suggestion.


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## tuxgeo

For the roar of water in the cave, both Neurotic and I have provided DEX saving throws for Leonan and Eddicus, respectively. (Presumably, PierceSG will roll for Garrett.) 

Vottr is down and cannot make a DEX save. 

Also, both toasterferret and mudbunny haven't had any activity on EN World for the last few months, so I'm guessing mips42 may need to make the DEX rolls for both Ivan and Brachnuss as appropriate, because their erstwhile players likely won't anytime soon.


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## Neurotic

Or maybe simply wash them out of the cave and either find two more prisoners (!) or let us talk out way out instead of fighting? 

This looks like a promising adventure, I would hate to see it go


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], any goblin that Leonan recognizes as someone to talk to (chief, liutenant or someone)? Also, any two goblins adjacent (for acid splash)? Or more then two in 15' cube? I would rather save thunderwave for the king, but if there are plenty of goblins outside piles up, it would be too good an opportunity to pass


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## mips42

YOu've seen most of these goblins before at least once but none that you could say 'hey, that's Bob' or whatever. Currently, with the exception of Vottr, Eddicus and Garret. EVERYONE is in a 15' cube.


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=100541]toasterferret[/MENTION], Ivan's up!


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## mips42

I appeciate the attempt but I think TF is not returning.


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## Neurotic

mips42 said:


> I appeciate the attempt but I think TF is not returning.




One lives in hope. Maybe its time to wash them out and recruit replacements?
I can ask in my other game if someone wants to try.


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## mips42

yep. soon as this section is done, that is gonna be happening.


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## Neurotic

mips42 said:


> yep. soon as this section is done, that is gonna be happening.




You might start immediately so there is no pause in the game - this is PbP after all 
If / when people respond, you'll have some time to review the characters and think on a plot to include them instead of starting the search. If you allow it, I'll ask in my pathfinder gane if anyone is interested. There are people there that are regular for the last 3 years. I can ask in my semi-dead 4e adventure too.


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## mips42

Sure, I'm okay with that.


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## perrinmiller

Hiya, mips42;
Perhaps I am the answer to your troubles. 

Nearly all the 5th edition games I was playing have suffered from GM hiatus so I have a few characters that are not in games any more.  I have a 1st level bard that I was planning to multi-class with a sorcerer at 2nd level.  Perhaps that would work as a replacement.  The other character is a dragonborn paladin.  I am not exactly sure where your opening are since you mentioned Sorcerer, but it looks like neurotic is playing a sorcerer.

If we are looking at a delayed introduction of new characters, I can play an abandoned character for a while until my own creation can be worked in.

[sblock=About myself] 1. Experience with 5th Edition: I have played a couple of games using these rules, but I only actually made it to combat twice. However, I have been playing/DMing D&D3.5ed and Pathfinder for 5 years in the PbP environment.

2. Experience with PbP: I have somewhere around 50K posts under my belt in the last 5 years, if I were to count them all up from the handful of sites I play at. At any one time I am GMing 10+ games as well. With attrition being the bane of most PbP games, this illustrates that I am not going to just disappear.

3. Frequency of Posting: On a normal basis, I can post once per day, 6-7 days a week. I generally do not post more than once a day on principle, allowing others a chance to reply or react during their daily routine as well. I also let people know when I am not available from more than 36-48 hours.

4. My philosophy as a PbP player: I enjoy writing posts and playing the game, having a good time when others are entertained and having fun posting in response as well. I treat every post IC like it is a scene of a TV show and describe my character's actions; there is always something for my character to do and probably say. Just because my character is in combat, there is no reason to stop role-playing. Any day I can post in reply to what other players have written is a good day.

I tend to write my character doing things and interacting with the environment as set up by the GM, letting the GM focus on providing results/changes of scenery and NPC reactions. I can run with what a GM gives me, without needing to hand held constantly. However I know when to pause to let the GM provide results or offering the courtesy to let other player get a chance to participate. I like groups that can develop teamwork and chemistry, where everyone has a role and opportunities to shine. I also believe communication OOC is important for scene advancement and coordinating other things in gameplay.

Recently, I have come to value the interactive side of PbP gaming. This is what sustains a game over the long haul, writers that are interested in responding to each other in character while the plot progresses around them. The focus on characterization on equal footing as plot progression is what brings the players fully into the story to make an engaging tale.[/sblock]


----------



## Axel

If you're looking for more players, I'd be happy to put my hand up. 5e is a wonderful edition, and perfectly suited to PbP. 

The brief 2 minute skim I had of the adventure so far and the setting looks pretty cool. How are things party-balance wise? What's an appropriate or acceptable character? Maybe not a half-Orc paladin of vengeance? Or a Tiefling warlock? But a sorcerer (dragon baggage and all) would suit? What level are the party? So many questions...


----------



## tuxgeo

I can provide an answer to the question about party level: _1st_: The party members haven't even taken one (complete) long rest since the first combat in this adventure -- never mind the question of gaining enough XP to level up to 2nd, yet.


----------



## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION],
[sblock=DM only please]
just to make sure: hobgoblin Kerg that is coming out with Yeemick is not the same king Klarg that Yeemick despises, right? I mean, I can talk about him allying with us or something without realizing this is THE king?
[/sblock]


----------



## mips42

My apologies, the 'abandoned' char is a Warlock, not a sorcerer.
Brief answers:
 I encourage at least one post every couple of days but, fair warning, sometimes I can't post for two or three days due to work.
 I prefer 'the story' over 'the game'. (hopefully that makes sense)
 Generally speaking, I err on the side of reasonableness. If it seems reasonable that your character would see/hear/know/notice something, they do. No rolls required. I will NOT have you 1e a room.
 If you'd like to Take on Ivan Karakov, Human male warlock, you are welcome to but, spoiler alert, this section is almost complete so, there will be a natural break where your own character could come in soon.
 Party balance: 
 Garrett the rogue
 Vottr the fighter
 Eddicus the cleric
 Leonen the Sorcerer
 Ivan the warlock


----------



## mips42

Yes, Kerg=Klarg sorry for name issues.


----------



## PierceSG

Oh, don't mind Garrett not saying much in combat. He's a rogue and it is sort of a habit of sneaky characters being quiet when they want to backstab someone/something.


----------



## Neurotic

[MENTION=88649]perrinmiller[/MENTION], [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION]: maybe perrin could seemlesly take over Ivan the warlock, exchange details for his own character (keep the name and description of course) and keep history/looks/party knowledge as if he was with us from the start?


----------



## Neurotic

mips42 said:


> Yes, Kerg=Klarg sorry for name issues.




Just one more little detail and off goes my peacemaking. Does Klarg speak common or only goblin


----------



## perrinmiller

> I prefer 'the story' over 'the game'. (hopefully that makes sense)



Makes perfect sense to me.   More and more I am looking at pure role-playing versus roll-playing, particularly for rules sets where I have less experience.

I don’t know about Warlocks (I would have to look into them more), but if Axel was looking to make something similar maybe reskinning Ivan would interest him more. I don’t mind deferring that choice to him.

After looking through the IC thread, it also looks Vottr is also abandoned too, yeah?  With him down for the current fight, I can see that you would not need someone to run him for the short term.  But my Dragonborn Paladin could make a viable replacement in the party once the section wraps up.
[sblock=Castagyr the Dragonborn Paladin]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Character Name: Castagyr
Gender/Race: Male Dragonborn (Gold)
Age: 18
Class: Paladin
Role: Heavy Damage Dealing Melee, Leader

Character Sheet

Description:
Castagyr was a tall and muscular looking humanoid with golden scales. He walked upright on powerful looking legs, and his strong arms had claws at the end of his fingers. His eyes were blue and despite his fearsome looking dragon visage, there was a peaceful looking expression about it. There were several little horns about his head and eyes, the large ones on the top ticking straight back behind him. Despite looking like a dragon, he still wore the clothes and trappings of a typical humanoid person.

Personality:
Castagyr was a kind hearted and patience person at times. While most of his life he has been the physically strongest one around, he never had to prove it and instead was taught to be mentally strong instead. He believes in honor and keeping his word. He sees himself as a protector of the weak and defender of the innocent. He doesn't try to preach these beliefs, preferring instead to lead by example instead. However, he doesn't agree that evil can be redeemed and often feels that battle will be inevitable. For those he is not forgiving and will take it upon himself to be judge and executioner if necessary. He swore an Oath of Vengeance upon those tieflings that killed his family.

"Despite my noble birth, I do not place myself above other folk. We all have the same blood."

"It is my duty to respect the authority of those above me, just as those below me must respect mine."

"My loyalty to my sovereign is unwavering."

"I too often hear veiled insults and threats in every word addressed to me, and I’m quick to anger."

Background:
Would need to be reworked based on the setting/campaign
[/sblock]


----------



## Axel

If it helps make sure there's a minimum of disruption, I can take Ivan on. He's not a cardboard cutout character, so that works well.


----------



## mips42

Vottrs' player is reasonably active so I would not want to replace him unless I absolutely have to.
 I am reasonably certain I can work in (or out) whatever character needed so, If you want to bring your own, I would not have a issue with that.
 I f Axel wants to take on Ivan now AND Perrin wants to bring in someone new a bit later, I'm okay with that as well.
 I found the rogues gallery thread and it is here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358740-Lost-mine-Rogue-Gallery

Neurotic, Leonen would know that in general, Hobgoblins tend to know common but, as Leonen has never met, seen or heard Kerg, he can't be positive...


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:


> Vottrs' player is reasonably active so I would not want to replace him unless I absolutely have to.
> 
> I am reasonably certain I can work in (or out) whatever character needed so, If you want to bring your own, I would not have a issue with that.
> 
> I f Axel wants to take on Ivan now AND Perrin wants to bring in someone new a bit later, I'm okay with that as well.



Okay, that works fine for me. 

A paladin would not be the same as a fighter, and it does provide a melee character should Vottrs’s player not return.  I will get Castagyr Posted in the Rogue Gallery and come up with a more appropriate background within a day or two.

Since he is not in the game yet, I will not be reading the IC thread until he appears since he would not know any of those events.


----------



## perrinmiller

Where in the game setting is the adventure taking place? It is set in Faerun, yes?


----------



## mips42

Yes, south-southeast of Neverwinter.

Neurotic: I'll let you determine how to play this, The roll was an opposed Intimidate check and you failed.


----------



## Neurotic

So, Leonan feels intimidated and fearful...hmmm...retreat (take the offer) or bluff?! that is the question 

  [MENTION=53915]GameDoc[/MENTION],  [MENTION=82463]PierceSG[/MENTION],  [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION], what do you guys think?

 [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], how does Yeemik react to Leonans suggestion? (as he reads it)


----------



## mips42

It's hard to tell. He definitely looks fearful of Klarg but, maybe also resentful. Your best guess is skeptical but with just a tinge of hope.


----------



## tuxgeo

I think we need to get Vottr back up to fighting trim before we try to go any further with our exploration of Cragmaw. This is a good time to get out of there, and to go to the town to take a long rest, even though we haven't yet managed to free Vottr's uncle. Now that we know where Cragmaw is, we can come back when rested, and when we deem it advisable -- since we now know where it is. 

We've already _decreased their numbers_ in the amounts of four goblins at the ambush, two guards in front of the cave, three goblin dogs, and two of the four guards that were guarding Leonan. That's eleven NPCs down, while we really haven't lost anybody (except through the exit of players from the game). Eddicus is at 5 HP, Vottr at 0, and I think it's time to lick our wounds and be thankful we have the chance to try again later.


----------



## Neurotic

Just arguing the other side:
On the other hand, taking a risk now, hoping that goblins will stay out of it or even help, we may be done sooner. And they will not have a chance to prepare traps and move the prisoner...I'll wait another day for the comments and then decide...they might take our withdrawal as a sign of weakness (and we might deflate yeemik hopes) and thus attack immediately.

Don't forget I used non-lethal damage so some of the goblins will recover in time. I think only Vottr truly killed one. And all the dogs, of course. And the rest of the tribe might arrive...maybe if Eddicus does some healing while we talk...

Also, Ivan might reactivate and shoot some his encounter powers thus changing the balance - this depends on our DM and new player...


----------



## tuxgeo

Eddicus _*cannot*_ do any healing while we talk. He has used all of his spell slots until he completes a long rest. 
He is also at 5 HP instead of full HP, and for the same reason: the party did not get a chance to complete a long rest since starting this adventure, because they tried to rest _inside_ the goblins' lair, but got their rest interrupted by the arrival of Leonan and his guards.

_Edit to add:_ If Eddicus had had any unused spell slots left, he would have cast "Cure Wounds" instead of "Spare the Dying" on Vottr: each of those two spells takes an action, but "Spare the Dying" doesn't require a spell slot.

_Edit-Edit:_ Eddicus does carry a healer's kit with him. However, he was built using the free _Basic Rules_, so he does not have the "Healer" feat, which would be  needed to allow him to bring Vottr back to consciousness with a use of the kit.


----------



## Axel

Sorry, I can't offer an opinion for Ivan guys. In still trying to catchup with the IC thread and story so far.


----------



## mips42

BTW Axel, just in case my fingers did not do a great job of translating for my brain, you are welcome to bring in your own character as well.


----------



## Axel

Thanks [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION]. I might do that - there's precious little to go on with Ivan. :-/ No background or much of a personality. Or motivators. I was regretting my decision to take him on. 

How would you do it? DM fiat substitution? Or at a pending long rest?

Personal preference would be to build a ranger. Dwarven underground specialist and budding professional treasure hunter sounds like it could suit the campaign.


----------



## mips42

Most likely I would have your and the other new character be on the road to/from or in Phandelver itself someplace. That would be the easiest.


----------



## Axel

I can do that. Expect one on Weds night then (about 2.5 days from this post). 

A Dwarven ranger called Brlo it is - cousin of Vottr by marriage, for the tie-in (Brlo's mother's brother married Vottr's father's sister). How's that for confusing lineage? Close enough to count for something (to dwarves). Distant enough that they can be separate people.


----------



## Axel

Is starting equipment by "book standard" with a point buy stat array?


----------



## perrinmiller

I finished Castagyr's background so it should fit the inject into the game that you have in mind, mips42.  He probably needs a plothook to put him on the exact road to be in position to meet the existing party and have a goal similar to theirs, yet.


----------



## Neurotic

Sooo...we have two more players waiting for long rest...we have:
Ivan slightly wounded, inactive
Eddicus, wounded, out of spells, active
Vottr, down, active? [MENTION=53915]GameDoc[/MENTION]?
Garret, wounded, active
Leonan, slightly wounded, active, one more 1st level spell

I was about to attack and count on goblins to help, it seems right thing to do given the hints about Yeemik not being happy with Klarg and the chance that withdrawal will be seen as weakness...but I'd like to have other players sooner rather then later...conundrum...

Full IC post later today (in about 6-8 hours)


----------



## Axel

Brlo Ungaet is up in the RG. Something of a Dwarven hippy entrepreneur. 

An easy tie-in to the region, Vottr and Castagyr. Happy to change things up as necessary 

Of note: I swapped the long bow a ranger gets with a heavy crossbow. I can switch it back easily (and call it a Dwarven "repeating crossbow" that just so happens to have the same stats as a longbow). 

Otherwise, he's a by-the-book level 1 Hill Dwarf Ranger.


----------



## mips42

Brlo (burlow(pronunciation?) looks okay at first glace as does castagyr. I've give them another look when I'm more awake.


----------



## Axel

Thanks [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION]. Looking forward to it. 

If you want to Anglicise his name, yes, you can imagine Brlo pronounced as Burrlow. I prefer to think of it with a hard "b" follows by a rolled "r" like, like a central European language.


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## mips42

Perrinmiller, you didnt specify a diety for Castagyr....

Brlo [sblock] Brlo, it is with some surprise that you hear of your relative, Gundren Rockseeker, sending out mining equipment to the town of Phandelver. You know Gundren and he's no the type to spend money if he's not sure he'll at lest break even. Even more surprising is the revelation that he's going himself. He's always been more of a general than a front line dwarf. Maybe he's found something...[/sblock]
Castagyr[sblock], youve heard of some trouble with ruffians, goblins and people going missing in the areas surrounding the Triboar trail and also the town of Phandelver. Even worse, you've heard rumors of someone calling themselves 'Spider' or 'Black spider' and causing trouble in the area. Somehow, you feel this may be important.[/sblock]


----------



## mips42

Nah, I was just checking.


----------



## Neurotic

Axel said:


> Thanks [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION]. Looking forward to it.
> 
> If you want to Anglicise his name, yes, you can imagine Brlo pronounced as Burrlow. I prefer to think of it with a hard "b" follows by a rolled "r" like, like a central European language.




I didn't even think about it. For me it looks natural just along with grlo (throat), brlog (lair) or brdo (hill) 
There are pronounced exactly as Axel said with r (audible "russian" hard R) serving  as kinda vowel between b/g and L.


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## perrinmiller

Fixed the deity issue. Thnx.
-PM


----------



## Axel

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION]

With the introductory bit above, do you want Brlo (and Castagyr) to enter the IC thread now? Or wait for an IC introduction?


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## mips42

I would say to wait for Brlo and Castagyr...


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## Neurotic

_"Goblins charge and overwhelm the heroes by sheer numbers. Just as Kralg was to administer fatal strike to uninspiring bard, two...beings...charge from the bushes and kill him in couple of seconds. Terrified, goblins run into the cave while the two heal our fallen heroes."
_

There, all set


----------



## Axel

Works for me.


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:


> I would say to wait for Brlo and Castagyr...




Just let me know when injected. Hopefully it will not take as long as it took for Neurotic.


----------



## Neurotic

perrinmiller said:


> Just let me know when injected. Hopefully it will not take as long as it took for Neurotic.


----------



## mips42

I actually thought about something very close to this and may still implement it >


----------



## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], Tides of Chaos was supposed to "force" you to roll twice on any skill check you decide roll (if any) - mostly to get goblins fired up 

I have a dream was targeted at americans, I believe everyone recognizes L.Kings speech modification 

Luckily most or all of the PCs don't understand goblin  - it would be very bad if they turned on me in the middle of the speech 


Finally: 2 sorcerer points to retrieve 1st level slot, just in case...I'd like a better chance to trigger wild surge, maybe just not on the first level 


I will give everyone a chance to (re)act before continuing "talky human" mode


----------



## tuxgeo

In the IC thread, Ivan gets to act next, then Eddicus. 

Since the goblins didn't attack the party (yet), Eddicus' readied action to throw a dart did not get triggered last round. Now that Eddicus has a new full action coming up, he'll rethink what to do then.


----------



## Neurotic

I believe only Vottr dropped one permanently. Others had more or less non-lethal damage (with side dish of lethal) and should recover...


----------



## tuxgeo

Thanks for the clarification. 
I see in the PHB (Chapter 9, under the heading "Knocking a Creature Out") the following: 


> Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than dealing a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out.




Maybe that's what is going on. (I'm still learning 5E.)


----------



## Axel

Under 5e rules you can choose to deal non-lethal damage. There is no penalty for doing so. 

Personally I find it quite ridiculous. How can a character with a strength of 20 deal non-lethal damage with a great sword?! Hit them with the side? Then you should have an attack penalty for trying to override a lifetime of training. Or aerodynamic effects. Or not get your strength bonus to "damage". Same with spells... A non-lethal magic missile looks like a paintball gun?! Pfft...


----------



## Neurotic

I don't think being hit by a flat side of the sword, especially two handed one (i.e. heavy), should be any less lethal...after all, maces and clubs are quite lethal too. This is more a matter of skill, hitting with less force, but targeted at head (to knock out), legs (to knock down) or arms/weapons (to disable/disarm).

As for spells, I agree, fireball should never be non-lethal (although I can imagine it as a high pressure heatwave (stun grenade) )...luckily, physics and D&D are in a loose relationship


----------



## Axel

I think the flat side of a great sword would be quite lethal too... Hitting the head though - that's probably quite challenging against an opponent fighting for their life. As represented by the chance of rolling a 20. 

If I had the opportunity to re-write the rule on subdual I would have up to 25% of total damage be knockout damage (at attacker's discretion). Even if you knock someone out when you're using weapons, it's going to leave them a bloody mess. And it should never be risk free... 

But I'm just a player and DM, unfortunately. :-/


----------



## perrinmiller

Axel said:


> Personally I find it quite ridiculous. How can a character with a strength of 20 deal non-lethal damage with a great sword?! Hit them with the side? Then you should have an attack penalty for trying to override a lifetime of training. Or aerodynamic effects. Or not get your strength bonus to "damage". Same with spells... A non-lethal magic missile looks like a paintball gun?! Pfft...



I think you’re missing what HP actually represent.  Then you might realize that there is no real difference between lethal and non-lethal damage in 5th edition.



			
				Basic Rules 5e said:
			
		

> *Hit Points:*
> 
> Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck. Creatures with more hit points are more difficult to kill. Those with fewer hit points are more fragile. A creature’s current hit points (usually just called hit points) can be any number from the creature’s hit point maximum down to 0. This number changes frequently as a creature takes damage or receives healing.
> 
> Whenever a creature takes damage, that damage is subtracted from its hit points. The loss of hit points has no effect on a creature’s capabilities until the creature drops to 0 hit points.



When you actually think about this, all HP damage is really non-lethal since you technically are not really wounded.  HP are not health points nor does their reduction reflect how wounded a character is.

Realistically, you cannot be 100% combat capable if you are injured. Just imagine how only a sprained wrist affects performance. Try running normally with a 3 inch gash in your leg.  Therefore even at 1HP remaining a character cannot be seriously wounded according to the mechanics.  They can only have minor, superficial wounds and bruises that can realistically be ignored.

So any discussion that a sword is doing massive damage before the foe reaches 0HP is already inaccurate.  

Look at it this way. Round 1 your hulking fighter hit the orc with a greatsword for 12 dmg out of 13HP.  The orc has 1HP remaining but is still 100% combat effective.  The sword did NOT slice open his flesh and nearly kill him.  His armor probably absorbed most of the blow, leaving him bruised and sucking in breath.  Then your Halfling whirls a sling bullet for 2 damage. That hit takes the orc in face and leaves him incapacitated or dying. Or maybe it was our hulking fighter again with the greatsword for 10+ damage.  The player has the option to turn the final blow to a smash of a hilt upside the head for knock-out instead of decapitation.


----------



## Axel

@perinmiller I love a good debate on this sort of thing! 

I understand that 1 HP = as alive and kicking as 100 HP. Hit points have to be an abstraction though, as otherwise we would get bogged down in ridiculous details.

A fireball should leave lingering burns. Being continually dropped to <10% of your maximum HP should result in the loss of digits or a limb after awhile. But this all gets glossed over for heroic gameplay, and I'm glad for it. I play "real life" every day and it's not all that awesome to fight the mortgage monster day in and day out...

For the sake of argument, assume I (or you) has been trained with weapons every hour that you have actually spent in a classroom. If I (or you) tried to knock someone out in a real fight, there's a chance misfortune could kill them instead. The critical bits for a KO, like the head, are also critical bits for life. They will be well defended. 

Your (my) opponent could duck into a strike that was only meant to batter them, and get a knick across the throat. In any case, having (embarrassingly) been in several actual punch ups, people are bruised and really sore afterwards. A great sword to the side of the head could cut my ear off as well as leave permanent brain damage. 

To simply translate damage from lethal weapons swung in anger to "non-lethal" damage is simplistic. But so are HP, and we accept that for the sake of heroic action. 

5e is about streamlined combat. So, maybe resistance to non-lethal damage is appropriate?


----------



## perrinmiller

Axel said:


> maybe resistance to non-lethal damage is appropriate?



I think you are confusing 5e rules with previous editions.

There is no such thing as non-lethal damage in 5e.
[sblock=Damage Types from the 5e Rules]Different attacks, damaging spells, and other harmful effects deal different types of damage. Damage types have no rules of their own, but other rules, such as damage resistance, rely on the types.  The damage types follow, with examples to help a DM assign a damage type to a new effect. 
*Acid.* The corrosive spray of a black dragon’s breath and the dissolving enzymes secreted by a black pudding deal acid damage. 
*Bludgeoning.* Blunt force attacks—hammers, falling, constriction, and the like—deal bludgeoning damage. 
*Cold.* The infernal chill radiating from an ice devil’s spear and the frigid blast of a white dragon’s breath deal cold damage. 
*Fire.* Red dragons breathe fire, and many spells conjure flames to deal fire damage. 
*Force.* Force is pure magical energy focused into a damaging form. Most effects that deal force damage are spells, including magic missile and spiritual weapon. 
*Lightning.* A lightning bolt spell and a blue dragon’s breath deal lightning damage. 
*Necrotic.* Necrotic damage, dealt by certain undead and some spells, withers matter and even the soul. 
*Piercing.* Puncturing and impaling attacks, including spears and monsters’ bites, deal piercing damage. 
*Poison.* Venomous stings and the toxic gas of a green dragon’s breath deal poison damage.
*Psychic.* Mental abilities such as a mind flayer’s psionic blast deal psychic damage. 
*Radiant.* Radiant damage, dealt by a cleric’s flame strike spell or an angel’s smiting weapon, sears the flesh like fire and overloads the spirit with power. 
*Slashing.* Swords, axes, and monsters’ claws deal slashing damage. 
*Thunder.* A concussive burst of sound, such as the effect of the thunderwave spell, deals thunder damage.[/sblock]
I think the game designers took out non-lethal because they are making damage more abstract to match HP and damage is lethal until the foe is reduced to 0HP.  Just because you reduce someone’s HP, doesn’t actually mean they took any real damage. For example, the fireball’s flames singed the target’s hair and some exposed skin, scaring the crap out of him (translation: took 25 of 30 HP). 

In previous editions, common thinking is that Damage = Wounding. But HP were never about how many wounds you could take then either. Spells like Cure Serious Wounds further supported that way of thinking.

I like that 5e really clarified this concept compared to other editions, yet they did not actually change anything much.  I never really liked the idea of NL damage when Lethal Damage had no real affect either.  Trying to write combat results at higher levels was making no real sense until I adopted the same thinking as they describe for 5e.

Look at these excerpts from the 5e rules:

*Describing the Effects of Damage *
Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways. When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit point maximum, you typically show no signs of injury. When you drop below half your hit point maximum, you show signs of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious.

*Dropping to 0 Hit Points*
When you drop to 0 hit points, you either die outright or fall unconscious, as explained in the following sections.

*Instant Death*
Massive damage can kill you instantly. When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum. For example, a cleric with a maximum of 12 hit points currently has 6 hit points. If she takes 18 damage from an attack, she is reduced to 0 hit points, but 12 damage remains. Because the remaining damage equals her hit point maximum, the cleric dies.

*Falling Unconscious*
If damage reduces you to 0 hit points and fails to kill you, you fall unconscious. This unconsciousness ends if you regain any hit points.​
When you look at this, what is the mechanical difference really between unconscious due to injury versus just being knocked out? None, so why would you need a roll to check if you succeed instead of letting the player decide?

This leads me to another issue…

Referencing reality to nit-pick at rules is backwards for me. That is because we are playing a role-playing game, not a mechanics heavy roll-playing game.  All the rules for combat are doing is structuring things to allow the participants to tell the story with some randomness applied to the outcomes.  We could simplify things to coin flips and still accomplish the same thing from a role-playing perspective. Flip a coin to see if you hit. Flip again to see if you killed. Then write your results as creatively as you want that makes realistic sense.

Instead of trying to make the game mechanics fit reality, I just use them to help realistically write the results of actions in the story. The game mechanics purpose is to allow adjudication for the actions I want my character to do.  If I want my highly trained fighter to simply knock out his opponent with the hilt of his sword instead of breaking his skull, then it should happen.


----------



## tuxgeo

Yeah, there's a short paragraph in the Combat chapter headed "Knocking a Creature Out," but it only applies to a melee attack.


----------



## mips42

Quick unofficial poll: How long should I wait between posts? One day, every other day, three days or something else. I want to give everyone a chance to play but I don't want to be waiting a week to do it if I can help it...
 thoughts appreciated.


----------



## Axel

2 days except around. If holiday periods. 

In initiative order, 24 hours. 

More to say about non-lethal damage and HP but no time ATM...


----------



## perrinmiller

2 days normally, 3 days with a weekend.


----------



## Neurotic

Two days. Less if in combat. If someone thinks he May not be able to post for some reason, he should give dm or another player instructione and leave it to that person discretion.


----------



## PierceSG

I'm more lenient with giving players 3 days, and 5 days with weekend.

24 hours though if a combat is ongoing, just to keep things moving.


----------



## mips42

next unofficial poll:
 Starting with Phandelver (SOON), new IC thread or not?


----------



## Axel

Yes, new thread. 

Old threads get clunky


----------



## Neurotic

Yes, new thread. Just add the link to first and last post in the old thread so it is easy to navigate.


----------



## perrinmiller

New thread sounds good to me. Does that mean I finally get to play?


----------



## Neurotic

perrinmiller said:


> New thread sounds good to me. Does that mean I finally get to play?




I've waited for months, newbie  Patience, young padawan.
But in more seriuos tone, I think this is perfect time to get new players.


----------



## mips42

Yes. New IC will be coming this Tuesday, 10/6. So, Castagyr and Brlo, get your stuff together. Axel, now is the time to let Ivan go if you would like to do so.
[mention=53915]GameDoc?[/mention] You here?


----------



## tuxgeo

The user named "GameDoc" last visited EN World on Thursday, 3rd September, 2015 @ 08:27 AM (listed as Pacific Daylight Time). 

I have sent GameDoc a Private Message on EN World's system. If GameDoc had his options set so EN World would send him an e-mail message whenever he gets a new PM, then he'll get an e-mail notification about a new PM from me; but if GameDoc had his options set so EN World would notify him by the local EN World "Notifications" the next time he logs on to the site, then _no such luck_. 

We all Wait and Wonder. ("WWW")


----------



## Axel

I'm happy to let Ivan go. Yes, he could be interesting. But Warlocks always seem like cartoon villains to me. 

His plan at the moment is to go explore the goblin cave on his own, once everyone is out of the way. Sound straightforward enough to keep him 'nearby'?


----------



## mips42

Pops: Hey, how you guys fixing to pay?
Kermit: What are our choices?
Pops: A) cash, b) credit card, c) sneak out in the middle of the night.
Fozzie: We'll take "c."
Pops: Very popular choice.
- The Great Muppet Caper


----------



## tuxgeo

Re: Player personnel again: 
SuperZero is back and posting on EN World again, as of today. 

For those of us who recall, he had a character named Caelynn Amastacia in this game. His last post in the IC thread was post #98, exactly the post before mips42 sprang the goblin ambush on the Triboar Trail.


----------



## perrinmiller

MiPS; are you going to provide an explanation or something IC to inject Castagyr into the scene?  It still looks like the game is only the current characters.


----------



## mips42

I know you're anxious to get in. Trust me, I am too. I have a plan but, If you would rather, I can have Castagyr walk in on Barthens provisions.

EDIT: Until such time as Brlo and Catagyr meet up with the rest of the party, original IC will be for Brlo and Castagyr and Part II will be for the rest of the group.


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:


> I know you're anxious to get in. Trust me, I am too. I have a plan but, If you would rather, I can have Castagyr walk in on Barthens provisions.
> 
> EDIT: Until such time as Brlo and Catagyr meet up with the rest of the party, original IC will be for Brlo and Castagyr and Part II will be for the rest of the group.



I am patient, but you had said we would be getting into things when the new thread began and Axel was to stop playing Ivan… yet neither of those things appeared to be happening so I thought I should ask. 

I will post in the other thread shortly.


----------



## Axel

I'm trying to get Ivan out. There's not a good opportunity yet though...


----------



## Neurotic

Wasn't he supposed to leave and explore the caves? Maybe potentially turn it into base of operations for the group?


----------



## Axel

Only if we camped out. Not a selfless man, don't worry...

He will leave soon, anyway


----------



## mips42

Don't mind me, I'll just be over here watching (and enjoying) all you guys roleplay your characters.


----------



## Neurotic

You could post (just for fun) all XP and loot we got from the cave...(maybe put it in sblock in the first post for easy reference?)


----------



## Axel

Isn't that the mark of a good DM? 

Set a scene, let the players go nuts!


----------



## mips42

I'd like to think so. Either that or I've let all the loonies out. Either way, it's fun to watch.
Edit: Added xp and treasure info to post 1 in thread 2 as requested.


----------



## mips42

Unofficial poll:
 The 'Active Tasks' add-on; 'Helpful', 'Meh' or 'It Should burn in a Fire'?


----------



## Neurotic

Helpful, especially if we hit RL problems and pause the game for a while (usually during summer  )


----------



## Axel

I could care less. 99% of my access is through Tapatalk so I don't even see it. 

Neurotic, if there are loonies loose in summer then it must be loony all year round! We're coming into summer here...33+C daily maxima with sunrise somewhere about 4:00. Joy...time to hide from the sun again. :-/


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:
			
		

> Unofficial poll:
> The 'Active Tasks' add-on; 'Helpful', 'Meh' or 'It Should burn in a Fire'?



They are fine by me.  They are good reminders every once in a while to ensure we have not forgotten things over time.

They are certainly less distracting than the OOC only posts in the IC thread that belong here instead.


----------



## tuxgeo

mips42 said:


> Unofficial poll:
> The 'Active Tasks' add-on; 'Helpful', 'Meh' or 'It Should burn in a Fire'?




What 'Active Tasks' add-on, where?


----------



## mips42

A the bottom of my last post there was the Active Tasks and the OOC that contained XP info.


----------



## perrinmiller

Mips, we have at least two PCs now that are waiting on replies from Toben.


----------



## tuxgeo

mips42 said:


> A the bottom of my last post there was the Active Tasks and the OOC that contained XP info.




Ah! Found it! 
Yes, that was very helpful. Thanks for doing that.


----------



## Axel

My activity will be dubious for the next few days. I've taken Brlo out of any potential interaction to avoid hold ups. It suits his personality anyway. 

My intention is for him to spend a substantial amount of time around the town (up any hills particularly, for no reason other than dwarves like hills). No spell casting yet - he's too nervous about the whole thing. Just solid ranger survival skill usage.


----------



## mips42

okay. Thanks for the Heads up.


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:


> OOC: You're talking to air, Castagyr. They left the room.



I wanted to interrupt their leaving, or follow after since he is not done talking with them .  Take your pick.

Btw, Castagyr sought Toben out to begin with since he finished breakfast already. Toben would be rude to walk out on him now.


----------



## mips42

Leonan is off on his own (possibly with Vottr), Eddicus is off with Brlo and Castagyr is still at the inn talking with the innkeeper (possibly with Garret and Vottr).
 The only way I know of to deal with this and keep all y'all on roughly the same timeline is in time slices. You get your 5 or ten min, then the next person /group gets theirs, then the next person/group gets theirs and so on until it comes back around to the first person again.
 All I can say is be patient.


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:


> Castagyr is still at the inn talking with the innkeeper.



Umm, Castagyr went to the Town Hall.


----------



## Axel

16 hours ago he was at the pub. 

15 mins of fame seems a fair way to handle it mips


----------



## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], we could just wing it, as party members go from here to there they will encounter one another, maybe repeat some question occasionally to town people, but in general everyone has their own way with people and people might tell one what they forgot to tell the others...as for timeline, unless you have some encounter planned, you could just summarize everything starting with: You find yourself back at the tavern for good lunch sharing information with your group - you found out that...

If you have something special planned, just take that part (such as someone alone being accosted by shady character and warned off too much questioning) or similar non-violent encounter.

That said, everyone, if you hear terrible screeching and thunder booming, draw your weapons and come to save me again


----------



## perrinmiller

Questions about that last IC post:
Is it basically wherever we go, if we spend the listed time at the location and learn what’s in the spoiler blocks?  
We are not going to role-playing it out now?

Castagyr when to ask about Redbrands and the spoiler block doesn’t mention them at all, only some orcs and a bounty on them.


----------



## mips42

Essentially, yes. You are still free to roleplay any interaction you'd like and NOT roleplay any interaction you'd like. If a particular block does not contain information youd like to ask about, you could post 'while at [location] Castagyr talks to [person] about [thing]'.
 it's an experiment.


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:


> Essentially, yes. You are still free to roleplay any interaction you'd like and NOT roleplay any interaction you'd like. If a particular block does not contain information youd like to ask about, you could post 'while at [location] Castagyr talks to [person] about [thing]'.
> 
> it's an experiment.



Thanks. I understand. 

I will try to help speed things along by working on two topics at once, because I have a feeling Castagyr will be quite busy during the morning hours.


----------



## tuxgeo

I'll try to post IC for Eddicus later today. I've been busy in another game, and doing other things, but things will slow down later this afternoon.


----------



## mips42

So, with PierceSG stepping out (hope all is as well as it can be), We have [mention=Axel]Axel[/mention], [mention=Tuxgeo]Tuxgeo[/mention], [mention=Perrinmiller]Perrinmiller[/mention] and [mention=GameDoc]GameDoc[/mention] as active players. Do we want to continue with four, try and recruit a fifth or...


----------



## Axel

In happy with 4. The group is fairly tight. PbP with more than 4 gets messy with activity up and down. 

The old RL standby of NPCs that become PCs during high activity/attendance is also worthwhile.


----------



## tuxgeo

I'm happy to keep going with what we have now. Don't forget Neurotic's character, Leonan the bard/sorcerer: that makes 5 PCs, not 4.


----------



## Neurotic

tuxgeo said:


> I'm happy to keep going with what we have now. Don't forget Neurotic's character, Leonan the bard/sorcerer: that makes 5 PCs, not 4.




I was just about to say the same


----------



## perrinmiller

5 is good.  When Axel and I were brought in, I thought we were bringing the total to 5 instead of 6. Ideal is 4-5 players in PbP.


----------



## perrinmiller

MiPS, I am waiting on an IC reply from you.


----------



## Neurotic

Likewise


----------



## mips42

Apologies, somehow I am not getting all the notifications when you guys post. I guess I need to be more diligent in checking in.


----------



## perrinmiller

neurotic said:
			
		

> just note that if you start pushing party like this, you will not always have full support.



Except, Castagyr does have support. I do not appreciate being badgered over something hypothetical in the future.



			
				neurotic said:
			
		

> ...but imagine similar situation near hobgoblin cave. You wouldn't just charge in on the front entrance, would you? (by you, obviously I mean Castagyr)



 That situation is not similar.



			
				neurotic said:
			
		

> I don't mind IC discussion and behaviour, I had several with various people (right, Axel?  ).



Are we to understand that you do this often and are proud of it? It certainly looks that way since you felt you had to tell us about this. 

So pardon me, but I am going to be direct: 
1. I am getting increasingly turned off with the continual nitpicking of assumptions on what you only think Castagyr is going to do. 

2. The argumentative interactions and lectures IC (and now OOC) are also taking away from my enjoyment of the game. I am going to respectfully ask you to stop doing it.


----------



## Neurotic

perrinmiller said:


> Except, Castagyr does have support. I do not appreciate being badgered over something hypothetical in the future.



Which is why I'm with you as I agree that we should save the girl and destroy Redbrands.

I'm just playing _in character_ Leonans view - the one of the talker, non-warrior, the bard. You know, person who knows how to get the info without being too forceful. And yes, I consider armored paladin coming in and asking questions (however diplomatically put) problematic from the view of criminals.




perrinmiller said:


> That situation is not similar.



Find the better example



perrinmiller said:


> Are we to understand that you do this often and are proud of it? It certainly looks that way since you felt you had to tell us about this.



I do it when it suits in character persona. If character accepts the banter, all the better, fun for everyone. 
If not, as you do, I'll stop. This DOES NOT constitute license for you to do as you will ignoring the party.

This is collaboration game and if you cannot handle other peoples views, it is your problem. I didn't ask that you agree with me or that Castagyr agrees with Leonan. I will find a way to agree (again in character) and follow the paladin with goal of continuing as a party and fun for everyone. 



perrinmiller said:


> So pardon me, but I am going to be direct:
> 1. I am getting increasingly turned off with the continual nitpicking of assumptions on what you only think Castagyr is going to do.
> 2. The argumentative interactions and lectures IC (and now OOC) are also taking away from my enjoyment of the game. I am going to respectfully ask you to stop doing it.





I expect directness since we cannot discuss this at the table. You will not/cannot insult me so don't worry about it.

I don't assume anything about your actions, I draw my conclusions from the way you described Castagyrs behaviour and words. Instead of ignoring Leonan, you could describe what you plan to do. This way you're just reinforcing _Leonans_ perceptions. I (as a player) will react to whatever you do, but in-game assumptions of the character is that Castagyr will create problems. This is not neatpicking, this is explorations of options that you (as a player) may have overlooked.

I am willing to follow your direction as to appropriate manner of interaction. Would you please describe how my character can interact with your character without you personally getting annoyed? Also, if there is any special thing you don't like, let me / us  know so I / we can avoid it.

That said, surprise me! Make Castagyr do something I don't expect


----------



## Axel

@perinmiller
At the risk of presuming your intentions and personality, it seems like you are conflating character actions and thoughts with player opinions. 

Leonan likely thinks Castagyr is a pompous twat. He might well be (Paladins tend to conform to type!), but Neurotic is a capable and rational player with a talent for creative problem solving. Very distinct!

You're playing Castagyr well, according to his type (hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle). Good work!  If and when we (the party) survive the coming encounter I hope he begins the journey all Paladins have to take, of accepting other people's (characters) plans from time to time. 

In my decades of experience with this game, Paladins are excellent RP inspiration. Playing out their agonising journey from thinking they are invincible self-righteous holy warriors to realisation of the awful compromises that are needed for the world to function is great fun.


----------



## Neurotic

Axel said:


> @perinmiller
> Neurotic is a capable and rational player with a talent for creative problem solving. Very distinct!




Thank you!  High prize from someone with so much experience!
And I also have high regards for your characters and play style - maybe we're just two old curmudgeons that understand each other?!


----------



## mips42

It seems the GM needs to weigh in, so here goes: 
 I want to believe that everyone is up to the challenge of playing their character in the way that seems appropriate to them. I also want to believe that everyone is up to the challenge of separating Character actions, words and thoughts from Player actions, words and thoughts.
 It is up to each of us to literally or figuratively say _This_ is what this Character said or did and _this_ is how my character feels about that and have them act accordingly, while separating our own feelings from the same situation.
 If anyone here feels that they cannot do so, they are free to step away from the virtual table.
 Said another way, Character disagreements are one thing, player disagreements are something completely different. I ask everyone to be respectful of the other players and their roleplaying choices, no matter how you personally feel about them. *Period.*


----------



## Axel

Neurotic said:


> Thank you!  High prize from someone with so much experience!
> And I also have high regards for your characters and play style - maybe we're just two old curmudgeons that understand each other?!




Thanks.  Your scenario seems likely. Excuse me, I have to go rant somewhere on the internet about how the old ways were always better. ;-)


----------



## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], how small is the "small grimy window" from behind? Can Brlo and/or Leonan go through? And how fast? We don't need long fight here, but we also don't want anyone to go and inform the rest of the guild.


----------



## perrinmiller

Axel said:


> Brlo stared after Caatagyr's back with consternation. "Aye, som'n 'as t'save 'im from 'imself."
> 
> With a sigh the Dwarf hurried after the others, quarter stuff thumping the ground as his crossbow rhythmically clacked into his mail. _Dragonborn must have strange families. What about uncles? Cousins? Brother and sister? There got to be more than the poor girl's mother alive!_



The way I read it, Brlo was staying with everyone else. So this fight should be 4 on 4, yeah?


----------



## perrinmiller

Also Mips45, I clearly stated what square Castagyr moved to. He has a reach weapon and should be 1 square south of where the map shows.


----------



## Axel

:-/

How did we end up in a fight in this situation? Stealth and subtlety would've worked much better...

Brlo will be at the back. By virtue of reluctance to be part of any battle, and by lower speed than almost everyone else. If things go for a few rounds or more he might make an appearance, I guess.


----------



## Neurotic

We'll get two thugs inside  and prevent anyone from leaving...although it might be difficult if there are secret exits...I'm afraid of that shack behind the tavern...


----------



## mips42

The rear window is roughly two feet square. Leonan might be able to get through it but you'd have to break/remove the glass and it'd take some work to climb through. Brlo would very likely not be able to get through at all.


----------



## mips42

Hey, while I'm thinking about it. I hope all of you have a happy and safe whatever you celebrate this time of year. So: merry, Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Joyous Kwanzaa or whatever! Be well.


----------



## Neurotic

Thank you, mips.

Happy holidays everyone!


----------



## mips42

FYI / Heads up: The Surprise Round
[sblock=Per Players Handbook]
 The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can
be surprised even if the other members aren’t.
C o m b a t S t e p b y S t e p
1. Determine surprise. The DM determines whether anyone
involved in the combat encounter is surprised.
2. Establish positions. The DM decides where all the
characters and monsters are located. Given the
adventurers’ marching order or their stated positions in
the room or other location, the DM figures out where the
adversaries are—how far away and in what direction.
3. Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter
rolls initiative, determining the order of combatants’ turns.
4. Take turns. Each participant in the battle takes a turn in
initiative order.
5. Begin the next round. When everyone involved in the
combat has had a turn, the round ends. Repeat step 4 until
the fighting stops.
[/sblock]
  As I see it, if your character or the opposing NPC/Monster does not have a Reaction listed for them, they may move or attack, but not both. Essentially, half a turn.
 Since, in this case, Vottr is the Surpriser (I know that, while the redbrands were spoiling for a fight, they weren't expecting a hand-axe to be thrown at them...) He gets his attack first. Based on replies, It also appears that Vottr's attack Surprised the rest of the group. Therefore, the Redbrands and the rest of the party get a Reaction based upon initiative AFTER Vottr.

 As this is the second time a surprise round has occurred, I wanted to make sure everyone knew what was what.

 If you are interested, the Maps and such are kept here: https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/744380/enworld-lost-mine
 I don't know at this point how to let people in. If you do, let me know and I will do so.

 Since the subject has come up again and we've added new players, I will address maps. For my part, the maps are not, again NOT, intended as an absolute positioning of your characters, even though most of the maps contain squares. (they are mostly borrowed) The maps are only are intended to give an idea of what is where for those that need it. You are free to use or ignore them as you so choose.


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:


> If you are interested, the Maps and such are kept here: https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/744380/enworld-lost-mine
> I don't know at this point how to let people in. If you do, let me know and I will do so.



I like using maps, but I fail to see the point of using them in an application no one can access.  Why not use Google Drawing? It is so easy and you can let people move their own tokens around themselves.

An example:
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1k4QyrkOzgEXqqdpispG48cj-80KylNlOOu-spWN_r2w/edit


----------



## Neurotic

I like using maps, but if they are not accurate it is worse then not having them.

I'll ask for rolld20, maybe we have to have an account there and join your game? That is how my group shares it (there is also real time chat and roller) - we play real time

In the meantime, post the map as before.

 [MENTION=88649]perrinmiller[/MENTION], I suggested it when I joined the game. It was voted on and rejected. Good to know there is more support now


----------



## Neurotic

My GM says he's not aware of any sharing possibility besides joining the game. For that, you have to select "player link for this adventure is..."...but the players need the link to the adventure and join on the site. I think it would be easier for all to use google docs or your images of the map (for reference purposes) and we'll move around and check who's where before posting (so, for example, if Leonan was casting lightning bolt on enemy line and in the meantime one of them charged Vottr and Castagyr moved to his place in line, it would be my error to cast through the line)

My 2c.


----------



## perrinmiller

Neurotic said:


> I suggested it when I joined the game. It was voted on and rejected. Good to know there is more support now



What was the objection? 
I have used it often and have had no problems.


----------



## Neurotic

I believe it was just realism of the image maps rather then any specific problem with google docs itself (plus extra work for GM obviously to set it all up). Look back at around start of the year or search through this thread...it should return relevant posts.


----------



## tuxgeo

I'll be Away From Keyboard on Christmas Day, so I may be slow to post until the weekend. 

In the IC thread, we didn't post positions, so I don't know how far all of the party was from the Redbrands. I know Vottr threw a ranged weapon, so he must not have been up in their faces. Did perrinmiller say Castagyr was lance-length away from the line of redbrands? If so, Eddicus might be that far also. (Eddicus did not draw a melee weapon, and was trying to ease the conversation slightly by referring to the weather.)

To All: Merry Christmas, or Happy Holiday of your choice!


----------



## mips42

> like using maps, but I fail to see the point of using them in an application no one can access.



 This is inaccurate. People CAN access it if they know how. I am working on this. According to roll20, the player link is https://app.roll20.net/join/744380/fhtK-g
 I believe that, if you follow the link you can join the game (which is 90% about maps and 10% about NPC HP tracking). I also believe that, if you join, I can make it so you can move your own counter. I am a raw beginner at roll20.
 As to why not Google draw, https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Ot11Mg9O3CLOW-8S4TLL3wLtIsNmE_d2YB-flioj49o/edit


----------



## tuxgeo

I'm back from out of town, so I can post again as usual. 

I hope everybody had a Merry (or at least tolerable) Christmas.


----------



## perrinmiller

Well, I can access the map via Roll20, but it takes forever to load and is a pain from a smart phone.

The Google Drawing is easier, all you have to do is posts shareable link. (which you didn't do)  Click the padlock icon to open the permissions.  I typically allow anyone with the link to edit for letting my players move their own tokens.  Or you can set it for only view and they cannot.


----------



## Axel

What's wrong with old fashioned description, imagination and DM judgement? :-/

Sorry, I learned to play when figurines were for war gamers.


----------



## mips42

Editable. https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Ot11Mg9O3CLOW-8S4TLL3wLtIsNmE_d2YB-flioj49o/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Neurotic

Me too, but the games like this where we're not all at the same table and where we can immediately correct misunderstandings are better with the map. It sets the table for everyone and enables players to act with surety without DMs input.


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks, mips.
Btw, holiday time is way busier than I thought this year and combined with multiple computer issues has me unable to do much gaming. I hope to be normal by 4 Jan.


----------



## tuxgeo

Happy New Year to everyone here.


----------



## Neurotic

Happy New Year everyone!


----------



## mips42

Neurotic, there really isn't a *Delay* anymore. It was replaced with *Ready*.


> *Ready*
> Sometimes you want to get the jump on a foe or wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.
> First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it. Examples include “If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I’ll pull the lever that opens it,” and “If the goblin steps next to me, I move away.”
> When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger. Remember that you can take only one reaction per round.
> When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell’s magic requires concentration (explained in chapter 10). If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.



It's rather like 'If, then, else' programming.
 EG 'If I see Brlo move around to guard the rear of the tavern, then I will move around the front, otherwise I will move to the rear of the tavern to guard it.'


----------



## Neurotic

This way I get only a reaction and I would like attack the four in front of the tavern. On my turn I will attack and then move back, then Brlo can choose to do the same or stay in melee.


----------



## perrinmiller

mips42 said:


> what are you doing with the dead? especially the first fallen...



??
It was posted IC that we carried live and dead bodies inside the tavern and searched their pockets. Beyond that, it is undecided what we are doing with them yet.

But before Castagyr even bothers worrying about that issue, we had other actions that are waiting on DM replies for:
1. Searching Bodies
2. We entered the Tavern for the first time (is it empty of people? What do we see?)
3. Was there any reaction to dragging the bodies into the tavern? Onlookers or anyone?


----------



## mips42

I believe we have 5: Brlo, Castagyr, Eddicus, Leonan and Vottr, yes? In that case you get 80xp each for defeating the Redbrands.


----------



## perrinmiller

Mips45; Were the two patrons that were heavily wounded and bleeding heavily still conscious when brought into the tavern?  If so, did they say anything during all this time?


----------



## mips42

They were conscious but have spent the time mostly gibbering and such.


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks.


----------



## mips42

As far as I understand, Leonan and Eddicus are in the 'Shed' with the Redbrand while Vottr and Castagyr are in the tavern with the bodies and everyone else.


----------



## Axel

This could get messy... :-/

My recollections...east first. 
Castagyr and Eddicus are in the pub. 
Leonan is in the shed. 

Slightly more challenging, due to a lack of updates. (Sorry!)
Brlo is waiting outside the shed with loaded crossbow in case Leonan's bitch runs off. 

Impossible to tell...
Vottr was making noise with Brlo. Now he is taking a dump in the woods?


----------



## Neurotic

My understanding was that Vottr will return to the tavern due to relative non-stealthiness


----------



## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], let me and axel know when Brlo and Leonan finish with binding and return to the tavern.


----------



## Axel

Sounds like the easiest plan. I'm squirming about the implications already...

Paladins always make things so...messy.


----------



## perrinmiller

Neurotic said:


> Ease up, perrinmiller, we need him still - he may order keeping redbrands in jail for the duration of our expedition at least. Unless you want to leave someone of the party to guard them. You don't want to fight the whole town over mauling/killing their townmaster (corrupt as he may be)



Sorry, but I am not interested in any criticism of my gameplay/roelplaying.  I did not like before, and I still don't.


----------



## mips42

Leonan, Brlo and Vottr complee their tasks and return to the tavern just as the townmaster is speaking. so, now.


----------



## mips42

As this has come up again, I will address it.
 Just as you would be adverse to someone telling you that you are playing your character 'wrong', Please don't try to tell another player the 'right' way to enjoy the game.
 If your character has an issue with the way another character is handling a situation, that is something to be handled IN CHARACTER.
 You know, treat others how you'd like to be treated and all that.
 I really don't want to have to mention this again.


----------



## Neurotic

My apologies. It came out stronger then I intended. I couldn't react in-game since Leonan wasn't there. For the record, I didn't intend to imply that perrin plays Castagyr wrong or tell him how to play. Just offering some options. 

So, perrinmiller, this will be last ooc comment you get from me since you're so sensitive. This is colaborative game, not your own show though so allow for different opinions and lack of direct tabletop reaction in PbP setting.

I will keep ooc comments to minimum for everyone except when doing tactical discussion in this thread.

The rest of you feel free to comment on my actions with Leonan, especially if you disagree. Argument it and I'll consider it. Lets get back to gaming.


----------



## Axel

There's always the in-character option of knocking the sociopathic paladin out. How many witnesses to murder?  

As a Paladin, he's been played out quite well. Let's see how everyone else's character copes with moral relativism.


----------



## tuxgeo

Eddicus dislikes moral relativism; but he _also_ knows that the people nearby are more likely to be swayed by _precept and example_ than by criticism. One thing he wants to do is to set a good example for the whole rest of the party (AHEM! *ABSENT* BRLO AND LEONAN, who aren't inside the taphouse) _*by asking them for their opinions*_ about how to deal with the situation. 

Since that's not possible in their absence, his best chance to give a good example in the taphouse seems to be to set an example for Vottr by asking for Castagyr's opinion; however, given the recent clashes of will and style between those two already, that course of action would set an example of doubtful value to anyone. 

Worse, I don't see how Eddicus can now discuss this matter with Vottr and Castagyr inside the taphouse without further trying the patience of the townmaster. . . .

Edit to add: Eddicus is most likely to be amenable to accepting Sildar's take on the situation: now is not the time to make waves in Phandalin.


----------



## tuxgeo

Further on the situation inside the Sleeping Dragon taphouse: 

If anyone wonders at the way I'm playing Eddicus, here's one factor to consider: I originally gave him the Flaw of, "I can sometimes turn tail and run when things look bad." I like to think that I'm brushing up fairly close to his actually doing that in this situation; and that, therefore, I'm currently playing him _in-character_ at least to some extent.


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## Neurotic

My view on Eddicus actions is that he is good law abiding priest and thus fully in line with his earlier behaviour. Leonan has little use for law, but he wouldn't challenge townmaster without proof. He avoids conflict if possible and that includes discussion with the priest in front of the townmaster.
On the other hand, he would have no trouble going back to the inn thus obeying the order and immediately setting out. We have one healthy prisoner which will have not problems going back to the hideout and warning them of our coming. Leonan prefers subtler approach, maybe with redcloaks as masking first impression and entering from the secret passage and trying to saw confusion among the rogues...

I realise it is hard with two dwarves and a dragonborn, but we can try  It should be easier then a) fight all of the bandits in a single big fight and b) risking hostages lives (if they are not already dead or deported for goblin(oid) fort). Anyhow, I'm against splitting the party (however it may have looked before) - in this case, we did good by splitting since we prevented two to escape (good work Axel) and it was easy fight in front of the tavern.

We tried big fight in the goblin lair (true, with two players missing) - in this case we know there are human thugs (at least some will surely have missile capabilities), at least 1 spellcaster (that Glasstaff fellow) and at least one goblin. Possibly more of them or some of the more powerful ones serving as guards, contacts or just transporting prisoners and goods - possibly those orcs we are hearing about (although, I think they are not connected due to townmasters offer to get rid of them.

So...what do you guys think? Do we leave town for the moment and  try some side quests until things get back to normal and then storm the bandits or we go immediately?


----------



## tuxgeo

[Side note: Eddicus is Chaotic Good. He tries to hide part of his alignment through his attempts to get along with people. His Chaotic side did show through, however, in the moment he decided to go along with Castagyr and take matters into the party's own hands by confronting the Redbrands, despite the townmaster's having stated that "They're not so bad."
If Eddicus had been Lawful, I think he might have tried to become _deputized to confront the bad guys_ before acting. As it is, he tries to do Good regardless of its legality; but he also tries to use whatever Wisdom he might have to do so in a careful way, so he won't commit too much reckless behavior that could make matters worse.]

The townmaster did instruct the group not to leave town, as (he says) we are (or some of us are) still under investigation for murder. 

I can visualize the townmaster's trying to "give us enough rope to hang ourselves with" -- if we bolt now, he could easily conclude that we're guilty, and that we did not act in self-defense. 

Maybe we want to ask Sildar to come along with us and fill us in on more details about what the Redbrands are up to? He's from Phandalin, isn't he? Wouldn't he know? (And if he will not do that, then he could be a member of the same "faction" as the townmaster. . . .)


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## Neurotic

He was a prisoner and may not know how bad things got. As for leaving town...the hideout is still within the surrounding area, isn't it? As are outlying farms...the worst (for my thinking) is staying still and waiting for Redbrands to come for us in their own time and place. If we destroy the hideout we're bound to find SOME evidence of wrongdoing...or we could just leave town and the townsfolk come to us. We would have to let them know where we are (the goblin cave)


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## mips42

As far as you've been able to determine, the main Redbrand hideout is likely underneath the ruins of Tresendar Manor and would, therefore, be within town limits.
[sblock=Harbin] as a peek behind the screen, so to speak, Harbin has been completely intimidated and cowed by the Redbrands and, therefore, both desperate to try to get rid of them and fearful of retribution should someone try and fail...[/sblock]
 Sildar was a cohort of Gundrens that was traveling with him when they got ambushed so, no, he's not from Phandalin. From what is in the module about him, which isn't much TBH, he seems to be lawful neutral to lawful good and a member of the LOrds Alliance (if I remember correctly) and therefore supports a stronger hand in local law enforcement. A lot of the details of these characters (personality and such) are left pretty open for the GM.


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## Axel

And that's exactly my how it should be!

Can we get a rough time of day? I'd think mid to late afternoon, but it's quite possible I missed something.


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## mips42

If you are in need of healing, now is not a bad time to do it as you might not have a chance later. Then again, the sooner you deal with the Redbrands, the sooner you'll be able to to move on to other things.


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## tuxgeo

Which of the party even got a scratch? I recall Vottr's having taken a few points of damage; but he is a Fighter, so he has Second Wind for that (by now? doesn't he?). 

Maybe the best course is to go down the rabbit hole immediately, before Townmaster Harbin Wester unties the Redbrands who have already been defeated. I was going to have Eddicus say something about that IC, but I've been awfully verbose lately. (Maybe someone else wants to mention it?) 

If I have time on my hands, I'll look back through the IC postings of that fight to see who has taken damage.

_Edit:_ I should have read the IC thread first. Leonan covered most of that.


----------



## Axel

I actually don't mind Leonan's plan, and it makes a good deal of sense. 

Brlo and Leonan together on an 'unrestricted' battlefield (ie not a dungeon) would actually be quite tough to beat. 

What I am struggling with is to give Brlo motivation to do it. He genuinely doesn't care much about the Redbands (it's a local human thing, not his problem), worries for Vottr and doesn't really trust Castagyr. I'll try and come up with something in reply today - wasted enough time thinking.


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## Neurotic

You don't have to do it - if we miss the surprise, we miss it. It makes sense to stop them since we didn't intimidate townmaster enough (us being good guys and all  ), but we don't have to go.

As for wounds, [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION], I remember that Castagyr took a hit and I think Vottr did too...

EDIT: Checked: Vottr took 10hp and Castagyr 6 in the same round in #180 and that is all as far as I can tell.


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## perrinmiller

Sorry, I don't think I can continue playing.


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## Neurotic

Sorry you think so. Castagyr is good character for in-depth character development.


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## Axel

I agree! He feels so real I want to slap him!! I hope you're not leaving because of character tensions. But then, I also hope everything is alright behind your screen too. 

If you can, please stay! Tension and conflict are part of storytelling too.


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## tuxgeo

It's in situations such as these that I usually find myself wanting to express my hope that people can respect each other's decisions, at least to the extent of holding a game together and having fun doing it. However, I'm now feeling that it's time for a little bit of tactical silliness instead. 

For those who haven't recently viewed these videos, here are a few YouTube links to “Never Split the Party” — an RPG tribute/parody song by Emerald Rose:
a LEGO ("brick") film 
an anime-and-movie mix by Wingless Archangel Studios
a "Pony" mix by "scienceandponies"
a "Frozen" mix by Scrabble Scribbler
Emerald Rose live/electric at Megacon 2012
Emerald Rose live/acoustic at Megacon 2009


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## perrinmiller

Axel said:
			
		

> I agree! He feels so real I want to slap him!! I hope you're not leaving because of character tensions. But then, I also hope everything is alright behind your screen too.
> 
> If you can, please stay! Tension and conflict are part of storytelling too.



Thank you for recognizing that I am role-playing Castagyr well, though I hardly think it was anything that special. I play a number of games that require significantly more effort in writing and role-playing.


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## Neurotic

perrinmiller said:


> Thank you for recognizing that I am role-playing Castagyr well, though I hardly think it was anything that special. I play a number of games that require significantly more effort in writing and role-playing.




Having simple characters doesn't make them any harder to pull off properly!


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## mips42

So, once again, we are four. Brlo, Vottr, Leonan and Eddicus. Try for a 5th or not? I am tempted to say not but will leave it open for discussion.


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## Axel

I don't mind one more than requirements. It covers the bases when people don't continue playing, without leaving the party temporarily short handed.


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## Neurotic

I don't mind either way. It would be harder without fifth (for how many is the adventure originally written?) - also, 5th tends to be much shorter on healing then previous versions so it may be harder simply due to lack of resources.

Anyhow, I don't mind the challenge


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## mips42

Did you want to approach the front of the manor or try to go in the tunnel that you heard about?


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## Neurotic

I'd say we go up front, with Brlo as forward scout to warn us about any unwanted eyes, Vottr as support from the background (not silent and not human), Leonan and Eddicus as Redbrands (tm) with red cloaks, coming obviously toward the hideout.

I'm hoping they will not have anyone obviously guarding the house as it is supposed to be hideout, not a fort. If I'm wrong, Brlo can try to get the guard(s) on surprise with quick party support.

On the other hand, we might get good surprise coming through secret tunnel, but given how easily we found out about it, I bet some locals already know it and it is fair bet that bandits do too.

My vote: front door, masked

 [MENTION=53915]GameDoc[/MENTION], [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION], [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION], anyone needing short rest?


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## Axel

Brlo is ready to go, crunch wise. Only lost 2 arrows in the first encounter. 

He is not geared for stealth, yet. Scale mail will give disadvantage, with only a level 2 characters stats to offset that. You won't get him out of the armour, either.  Brlo will do well out front. Just not stealthily. 

Playing a dwarf, I prefer the tunnel option. Dark vision is an excellent advantage against puny humans.


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## tuxgeo

Re: "Dark vision is an excellent advantage against puny humans." -- 

It is that. However, it is also a way to treat the whole party as being in a constant choke-point: we might only be able to get at them one at a time if we have to go through the tunnel in single-file formation. 

Additional considerations: Eddicus is trained in Stealth (at a +5 on the roll), and wears studded leather armor (for not "clanking"), but cannot see in the dark. His AC 18 combined with Stealth training might be good reasons to put him at point; but not through the tunnel, because he can't see there without his Light cantrip, but the Light cantrip would obviate his Stealth. 

Also: might the tunnel lead to a locked door? Anyone reaching that door, and trying to pick the lock by the light of a cantrip or a torch, might make enough noise doing so to alert occupants on the other side of the door. 

We don't know, do we? 
My suggestion: Just select one or the other -- manor house (possibly collapsing) or tunnel (possibly trapped) -- and let's go for it.

I really should post something in-character about this. It's a discussion we should be having in-character, after all.


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## GameDoc

I'm good to go.  Vottr just wants to be pointed towards a bad guy and fight, so he'll go along more or less with any plan.


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## tuxgeo

Based on the posts above, it looks to me as though our consensus is for a frontal approach to the crumbling manor house, with a bit of stealth involved in scoping out the outside appearance in order to detect whether the Redbrands have guards posted. 

I think this means Eddicus takes point, as he has the trained Stealth of the group. He's not going to hide his holy symbol of Oghma under a red cloak, though. Does Leonan, wearing a red cloak, want to take point along with Eddicus, to confuse any possible onlookers? 

I'll leave this question here for a few hours before posting in-character; but I do want to get the party moving toward the manor house today if we can do that.


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], Leonan will go with red cloak, trying to confuse anyone accosting him. He will use the same story enhanced by "we were at the stonehill in and Adrian  Armond sent us onward"
- "Adrian" is the name I think the guy in the shed used, I'll go back and check
Checked 

EDIT: here is the post where Leonan took the cloak


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## Trogdor1992

Hey, just wanted to pop in to introduce myself here, I'm going to be playing as Castagyr going forward.


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## mips42

Welcome, trog. Hope you have fun.


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## Trogdor1992

Oh I'm sure I will, thank you for having me!


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## Neurotic

Welcome! I hope you can keep being righteous paladin in the best tradition of Castagyr


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## Neurotic

Leonan is trained in stealth. He and Eddicus could go through the door or follow that path just to "take a peek" before going any further. I would hope we could go through the house, but there is also possibility that the house is unstable and that the bandits use back entrance for a reason.  

We wait for [MENTION=53915]GameDoc[/MENTION] to vote which path we take?
...and [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION], you didn't mention anything about Eddicus opinion on the matter.


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## tuxgeo

Yeah, I was trying to get our characters to discuss the matter _in-character_ in the thread in "Playing the Game." Few PCs said anything while at the Inn; that being the case, I tried to move the party along toward the manor in hopes we could have an IC discussion on the (10-minute?) hike toward it. 

If any character wanted to say, "Put away that bow! Get your shield ready!" then I think Eddicus would have something to talk about, or disagree with, or comply with. I'm fine with going ahead stealthily, either paired with Leonan or otherwise, but it's been days (real time). Now that we have a new player to run Castagyr, we players may be as ready to continue the game as we'll ever be -- barring real-life exigencies.


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## Neurotic

Yes, I understand...I have posted IC answer, but I was hoping we could prevent the discussion IC since we're already in front of the house (this would represent the discussion during the walk) - now we have new situation...it depends on how much noise / attention we want during initial entry. All this assuming the entry is guarded...which may not be the case since the thugs seem confident in their hideout (or there is simply not enough of them to cover the space)


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## Axel

In many cases it is too hard to decide what to do until you see the terrain and obstacles. 

What would be a rapid observation and decision for the character, based on experienced and training, takes time for us as the puppet masters to understand and act on. Triply so for PbP. 

I do apologise for not being as active as I should have been. Life isn't the same anymore - I always seem to be busy. So, I'm going to make time to get my gaming in.


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## Axel

[MENTION=6801450]Trogdor1992[/MENTION]

Your speech colour shows correctly, don't worry. 

I use Tapatalk almost exclusively and can see it just fine. That said, I'm not a fan of text colours. Makes the whole thing look like a children's book. Never mind the background issues (yellow is great on a black background but awful on white)


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## Trogdor1992

Okay thank you, I'm indifferent towards it considering I can only see everyone else's and not my own haha.


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## mips42

Where are you trying to stealth to, or toward, Tux?


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## tuxgeo

Going along with Leonan, who is also stealthing.


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## mips42

Okay, then, all who approach Tresendar, stealting or otherwise, experience the same things previously described.


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## Axel

Apologies for my apparent inactivity!

The IC thread has been showing no new replies for weeks now!! :-(


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=53915]GameDoc[/MENTION], [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION], it seems there is some activity that is not being reported on IC thread.

Check it out.
 [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION], I was wondering if I was left alone to destroy the hideout


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## Trogdor1992

Hey I'm still here as well


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## Neurotic

Sorry about that, Trogdor.


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## Trogdor1992

Oh it's quite alright, I'm sure I'll be more noticeable when the smiting begins


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## tuxgeo

Axel said:


> Apologies for my apparent inactivity!
> 
> The IC thread has been *showing* no new replies for weeks now!! :-(



[Emphasis added]

"Showing" is a strange choice of word there: the IC thread has been _containing_ new entries that were time-stamped for several of the last few days. 

Our illustrious DM posted IC on 16th March, on 20th March, on 22nd March, on 24th March, and most recently on 25th March; and both Neurotic and tuxgeo were filling in the gaps, including asking the dragonborn and the dwarves to come down the stairs and explore. If those posts in the IC thread do not show on the hardware you are using to read that thread, you might want to consider using different hardware for gaming; or much easier, simply make it a habit to go to the IC thread at least once a day even if you don't receive notification that there are new posts there.


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## GameDoc

Sincere apologies!  I've been burning the candle at both ends in real life.


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], I didn't notice the door next to the water reservoir...is there any way to block them before we proceed? Do tracks on the floor indicate that they open out or in? Is there enough dust around them to say this was not open in some time?

Also, what did Leonan see by quick peek inside the pouch he fished out?


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=53915]GameDoc[/MENTION]? Are you with us? I know you mentioned you're busy in RL...would it be better to leave Vottr as rear guard and when you get some free time you charge to the rescue? Rather than having him follow and be inactive? Or maybe you could assign someone to play Vottr in combat if you don't find time for it?


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## tuxgeo

Tuesday, 26 Apr 2016: 

Are only three of us still playing? We're getting WIS checks and actions from Castagyr, Eddicus, and Leonan, but not (recently) from the two dwarves, Brlo and Vottr. IIRC, GameDoc was being busy lately. Should we wait for their WIS checks and responses before deciding what to do?

 [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION] are you still with us? I didn't see an IC post from you in response to mips42's recent call for WIS checks from all party members.


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## Neurotic

Axels last post on these boards is the one on this page, a month ago. I'll send him PM


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## mips42

So, moving forward, staying put or going back to the cellar?


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## Neurotic

I would say we're going back since we're just three and mips only knows whats in front...unless one of the absent dwarves wants to be troll prize


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## tuxgeo

1. In response to the stated question: I also think we're going back to the room with the cistern, given that we don't know what kind of cavern-denizen left a cobwebby message in Leonan's head. 

2. Leonan didn't give much of a description of the cavern to Castagyr and Eddicus; instead, he described the presence of some sort of creature "up ahead." Apparently he saw the overall shape of the cavern, but in the (scant?) available light did not see details such as whether there is an open end of a tunnel visible. 

3. I do have a copy of the Basic Game, of course, since it is available for free as a .PDF file. I have not looked in it to find the stats of monsters who can place thoughts in the heads of passersby while leaving an impression like a cobweb. First, I think that might be cheating; and second, I think that looking through the bestiary there would certainly be tedious.

4. Just heads up for all: Leonan got a 13 on his WIS check, but both Castagyr and Eddicus got higher than that. It might be possible that Leonan failed a WIS check there, while C. and E. made theirs successfully; or else it might be that Leonan was the only party member in line of sight of the head-thinker, given the fact that Leonan was scouting ahead. I really don't know what to make of that; perhaps we'll find out later if we get much farther. 

5. If GameDoc is too busy to keep playing Vottr at the present time, and Axel's last activity on EN World was on Monday, 18 April 2016, do we want to keep the option open of asking mips42 to consider the possibility of seeking to expand the player pool once again?


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## Neurotic

My guess would be that it was some kind of communication and Leonan either was only one targeted or failed resistance roll.
I would ask for new players, but would leave Vottr and Brlo as retreat guards. We can continue onward, just three of us and if/when new player(s) join they could be prisoners or renegade redbrands.

I didn't search for the game since mips said it was from 1e. Now I'm tempted, bad boy tuxgeo 

If Eddicus asked, Leonan gave the description of the cavern, he was just telling most important part first. [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], how about looking for new players?
 [MENTION=6801450]Trogdor1992[/MENTION], what do you think?


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## Trogdor1992

Wait, what do I think about what?


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## mips42

I believe the question on the table was about, once again, looking for new players to get the active group back to 5.


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## Trogdor1992

Oh, yeah we should probably have at least 4 active players, so I say go for it so long as you want to.


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## GameDoc

Hey guys,

I want to again apologize for delays in keeping up with the game.  It doesn't look like things are going to let up in the real world anytime soon.  Given that, I think it would be best to withdraw from the game.  I've enjoyed playing with you all.  

All the best!

-- GD


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## Neurotic

Thank you for letting us know. If you free up some time, call in. I hope it'll get better in time. Good luck!


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## tuxgeo

Likewise, thanks for letting us know. It's been good playing with you. Best wishes for your future endeavors.


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## Trogdor1992

Is javelin a throwing weapon? If so I have 4 but that and breathing fire are pretty much my only ranged options


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## Trogdor1992

Secondary question about my inventory, what is a Scroll of Pedigree?


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## Neurotic

Trogdor1992 said:


> Is javelin a throwing weapon? If so I have 4 but that and breathing fire are pretty much my only ranged options




Yes, it is. How often can you breathe elements?



Trogdor1992 said:


> Secondary question about my inventory, what is a Scroll of Pedigree?



I'm guessing some kind of affirmation of his noble status? Or pure bloodiness?


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## Trogdor1992

I believe I can breathe fire once per rest?


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## Axel

I'm back. I have had a long and hard slog in RL lately, and I'm actually ashamed at how I've let things slip. That's not me at all. Please, accept my humble apologies. 

I've just finished my last night shift for a looong time (although on call tomorrow night). I need to go to bed, but will review the IC thread and reply tomorrow with breakfast. If you all still want me a apart of the crew. 


​


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## Neurotic

Yay! We have air support!


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## tuxgeo

Axel said:


> I'm back. . . .




Welcome back! You have been missed.


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## Neurotic

[sblock=Hijack for Trogdor1992] [MENTION=6801450]Trogdor1992[/MENTION], Will you re-open the threads for knigts and epics? Or we wait short while until this databases are restored and maybe updated with some newer stuff (assuming they do)?
[/sblock]


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## Trogdor1992

Already reopened those threads 

Sent from my HUAWEI Y536A1 using Tapatalk


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## tuxgeo

Have I had Eddicus do enough this round? Are we still in Initiative -- or does the closing of the entrance door to the cellar room indicate a break-off in the combat? 

One thing I _didn't_ have Eddicus do in this situation was to suggest to Leonan that the latter's 'Acid Splash' cantrip did such a good job in destroying a rope bridge over a chasm that it might also have the capability to destroy the door between the heroes and the bad guys. The party has the high ground right now, and would be able to shoot arrows and acid down the stairway into the cellar room, were it not for that pesky door's being in the way; and if the door were gone, the bad guys would have to come up the stairs and out into the open in single file if they wanted to close on the party. 

I was going to demur on suggesting that on the grounds that Eddicus isn't smart enough to think of it; however, I did give him INT 13, so he probably could.


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## Neurotic

You worry too much. Unless I play someone who dumped int hard , my characters suggest things, always. Call it cunning, hard earned experience or cut good suggestions with something not so good every now and then.

With iq < 10 I'm more of a charge guy. Let gods sort them out.


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## Axel

Holy crap! Life interfered and I am so sorry for letting you guys down. 

Is the game still running? Or TPK? Or y'all hate my sorry arse these days and don't need another magician who vanishes into the aether?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Neurotic

You're just in time and missed board the crash 

Save us!


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## Axel

Neurotic said:


> You're just in time and missed board the crash
> 
> Save us!




The board crashed and you need me to save you from yourselves?


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## mips42

We're Still plugging along.


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## Axel

I tried picking up the story again from the IC thread but I'm totally lost. 

Can anyone give me a few dot points on how we went from running away in the dungeon tunnels (y'all left Brlo and found some undead thing), to having prisoners and running away outside?


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## mips42

Brlo had 2 Redbrand prisoners, the other 2 went running into and through the chasm space. One tried to cross one of the rope bridges but fell where the 'Eye monster' used him for a snack. The other rebrand went across the other rope bridge and brought other redbrands and a trio of bugbears and the group, being highly outnumbered has been running since.
 Brlo is headed back to town with his bound prisoners hopin he can raise a militia  and the others are essentially fighting a rear-guard trying to keep the Bugbears off their tails.


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## Neurotic

But that was before you came back. You could help with your damage now ;-)


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## Axel

Normally I like a nudge to go with a wink. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mips42

A nods as good as a wink to a blind man.


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## Neurotic

*nudge*

Here you go. I'll try to post an action today  Leonan fires blob of acid at the leading hobbo and his adjacent friend and hides away...if you want to NPC him to that effect, feel free to do so if I'm the last.


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## tuxgeo

You're not the last: Castagyr hasn't declared an action for this turn yet; and Eddicus has only declared his readied action from during the Bugbears' turn (Crit!), so I think Eddicus still has an action to declare for this turn.
 [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION]: Welcome back!


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## tuxgeo

Alright, my own IC post from Wednesday the 12th is still the most recent one. If Leonan was going to do something this turn, I haven't jumped in front of him (yet). I do see that Castagyr has a declared action this round, but that action was merely to run and take cover behind trees, readying his lance for the approach of enemies. 

Working on the theory that Eddicus still has an action to take this round before the Bugbears get their turn again, I'm going to go ahead and post his action for this round. 
Soon.


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## Neurotic

But I did post!? I shot acid burst and did whole of 1 damage

Edit: checked, no post :-( Posting now


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## mips42

As a reminder, Readying a action moves you to top of order for next round. Only a reaction lets you do a think on the opponents turn.


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## Axel

I think that's a holdover from 3.5 era thinking, mips. 

Ready in 5e is mechanically speaking using your action to define conditions under which you will use your reaction (in addition to normal conditions), and what that reaction will comprise (flee, item use, attack, spell etc).


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## mips42

> First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it. Examples include “If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I’ll pull the lever that opens it,” and “If the goblin steps next to me, I move away.”
> When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger. Remember that you can take only one reaction per round.



 Darnit, you're right. :/


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## tuxgeo

Regarding what is happening in the IC thread: Brlo is a dwarf, having maximum movement of 25' per round; and he is trying to herd captives, one of whom he had to shoot in the leg to keep from escaping. If the other party members now head straight for town, they're going to out-pace Brlo and the captives, leaving the Bugbears easy access to stomp the dwarf and free their two captured comrades. 

In light of that consideration, I'm sort of glad people are at least trying to slow down the Bugbears by taking cover behind the trees and attacking at distance. There's a fair bit to be said for undertaking attrition of the enemy before being forced into close engagement, according to some theorists.

_Edit to add:_ I also notice that Brlo has turned and used his action this round to launch a crossbow bolt at the Bugbears, which means he might be using the "stand and fight" tactic instead of the "run to town and get support" tactic. In light of that, it's probably fine that Leonan didn't express his comment about _'the-paladin-will-get-us-killed'_ out loud.


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## tuxgeo

Update because of the new map: 
Brlo and his captives are near the first switchback to the west of the manor house. Much farther and he would lose elevation and lose line of sight to the rest of the party. 

I had mistaken distances: I had thought the party members could get to the next stand of trees (for cover) before the Bugbears caught up with them. The Bugbears are faster-moving than I thought. . . .


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## Neurotic

The paladin still might get us killed  
I'm not sure if it would be better for us to see all enemies or deals with these and hope that humans won't circle around and shoot us from somewhere :-( 

My last thunderwave goes next and then I'm smoothing acid and throwing daggers


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## Neurotic

Trogdor is DMing me, if he takes offense, I'm in deep sh... adow ;-)


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## mips42

No HP were harmed during the making of this film... (no, HP were NOT reset. Only Brlo got a advantage o a critical death save so he has 1 hp.)


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## Axel

mips42 said:


> No HP were harmed during the making of this film... (no, HP were NOT reset. Only Brlo got a advantage o a critical death save so he has 1 hp.)




Good to know! Dwarves are hard to kill. 

Has he used a second spell?


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## mips42

no he has not. The only thing he's really been doing is trying to shuttle the captives to town.


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## mips42

Eddicus regains 8HP.


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## tuxgeo

Character sheet now updated to reflect his regaining 8 hit points.


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], trogdor is offline 15 days. Could you NPC him this one round?


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## mips42

While I freely admit I may have missed something, I am only seeing actions from Brlo and Eddicus... I'd rather not NPC 2 chars if I can help it.


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## tuxgeo

Re: Characters acting in this round:

In your post #406, you described Leonan as completing *two actions* last round: (1) "His voice, booming with anger, tosses the massive Bugbear as if it were a leaf on the wind" and (2) "he fishes out the vial and, with a quiet prayer, pours the thin liquid down his companion's throat." 

If you wanted, you could count Leonan's first described action (spell attack) as the action he took _during that round_, and you could count his second described action (administering a potion) as the action he took _during this current round_. (As if to say, "Leonan acted during this round before Eddicus did.") 

If you do that, then there may be no need to DMPC Leonan this round. 
​


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## mips42

I have chosen to rule the potioning of Eddicus as a Bonus action from the thunderwave round.


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## tuxgeo

Ah, I see; then I wasted a few electrons in suggesting that alternate take. Nothing to see here. . . .


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## Neurotic

Leonan is my character. He doesn't need NPC ing. Castagyr does.

Mips, map shows two hobos still up and one that Leonan blasted away is still 10' away. Yet, you described him moving back and missing Leonan.

Tuxgeo, when two PCs threaten same enemy, you get advantage on the attack. Your bow shouldn't have disadvantage (nor advantage) since they negate each other. I think.


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## mips42

I knew that Leonan did not need NPC treatment, I just had not seen an action so was waiting.
 I believe Neurotic is correct only when you use the optional flanking rules. however I'll let Eddicus use the first roll.


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## Neurotic

mips42 said:


> I knew that Leonan did not need NPC treatment, I just had not seen an action so was waiting.
> I believe Neurotic is correct only when you use the optional flanking rules. however I'll let Eddicus use the first roll.




I didn't realize those are optional, just that it is 5e equivalent. Good call. I asked for map clarification to decide if Leonan is in melee or needs to move to Castagyr.


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## mips42

Yes, Leonan would be in melee with Eddicus and a Bugbear.


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## Axel

Advantage is huge. Done give it away too easily. Being adjacent and granting advantage is the wolf pack barbarians thing. Don't take it away from them...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Neurotic

One more clarification please, [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], sorry for holding up the game 

Is Brlo 17 vs AC a hit? I expect the hobgoblin is dead from cumulative nearly 30 damage? If so, Leonan can move next to Trogdors (maybe even flanking position, I have to check the distance) and attack. If not, use single attack roll (probably a miss) from the combat post.


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## tuxgeo

Regarding the matter of Eddicus' making bow attacks in melee range: 

He's a _dufus_; and more so than I intended him to be. 
Looking closely at the rules for ranged attacks in melee, I see that the Disadvantage applies to any ranged attack roll. It does not mention melee attack rolls (dagger would be fine), nor does it mention spell attacks that have saving throws instead of attack rolls. Sacred Flame couldn't be cast at Disadvantage, since it involves no attack roll to be Disadvantaged. 

Melee Dagger: attack at +5 to hit, damage 1d4+3 (theoretical average 5.5) 
Sacred Flame: attack at +4 vs. save, damage 1d8 (theoretical average 4.5) 
Yeah, the Melee Dagger is better on both counts. He has one. He should wield it. I see that now.


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## Neurotic

Mathemathically, that is correct assuming AC and saves are comparable. If ac is much higher, it is better to cast.


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## Axel

Attack vs save is very useful in situations where you simply can't make a straightforward attack. Darkness, prone opponent, target has AC of 35 etc. If you plan on using cantrips as a baseline for attacking (low level wizard or warlock), it pays to have a ranged attack (at good range) like eldritch blast, a melee attack like shocking grasp and a shorter range attack via saving throws like poison spray or sacred flame. This covers all your bases. 

Clerics, of course, only get the one attack cantrip and should be played differently as a result. They're one of the hardest classes to play well, because you accomplish so many things indirectly.


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## tuxgeo

That indirectness is something I've been slow in picking up on. There's healing, and Channel Divinity, and the Bless spell, and Guidance and Resistance; but the problem I have with Resistance is that it's not a Reaction: by the time Eddicus' turn comes up, many other team members will have already made any needed saving throws and he can't help them there unless he had some kind of advanced knowledge the previous turn to cast Resistance _on somebody who was predictably going to need it_. That one of the reasons I didn't have him learn that cantrip. 

The Life domain gives a good boost to healing; but the Knowledge domain would be more thematically fitting for Oghma. However, Life was the one choice available when I first built Eddicus, because we started out playing using the Basic rules only; and I was going for the ability to include one of the built-in plot hooks in the advanture, because there's a desecrated temple to Oghma somewhere out there.

If I had it to do over again, I might try to force-fit the Arcana domain from SCAG around the worship of Oghma, but that's really a stretch. _("Look, Arcana is a type of Knowledge, right?")_ My reason for that idea is that Arcana gives the Cleric two chosen Wizard cantrips and two specified Wizard spells (Detect Magic, Magic Missile) as Cleric spells, meaning they can be cast using Wisdom as the SpellAbilMod. There's your FireBolt and ShockingGrasp (or others) provision right there. 

(But such a rebuild, even if I had a game to play it in, would also probably include changes to ability scores because of not relying on DEX for attack rolls, and then it gets to be a real mess of a job.)


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## Neurotic

Maybe mips would let you rebuild once we have some downtime?


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## mips42

Yes, next level you can rebuild if you want to. I now have access to full PHB, Elemental Evil supplement, Sword Coast Adventure guide, etc. So, any _Official _Source is fine ( No unearthed arcana). If you use a source not listed, I would appreciate a link to where you found it so I can look at it as well.


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## Axel

Thanks [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], but I'm happy with Brlo for now. At third level I'm thinking of sending him down the beast master archetype. Probably pick a bulldog or something similar for his first companion.


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## Neurotic

Not sure if that was an open invitation, but I'm quite happy with chaos sorcerer  It would help if there were more surges  But then again we survived dreaded surge fireball.

I'll check if I can find any new spells with chaos descriptor  but I'm quite content with Leonan


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## tuxgeo

I have moved Eddicus' token on the online map to a distance that I guesstimated was approximately his speed along the trail toward Brlo's location. I see Eddicus has a red border around his token; I trust this is to indicate that he is below 50% of maximum hit points. I also trust that we're allowed to move the tokens of our own characters. (I may be slow on the uptake about the use of the map, as well.)


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## mips42

Today (and most days) I am thankful for my wife and family, food to eat and a roof over the head. I know there are many who don't have those things.
 Be well.


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## mips42

Yes, dark lines indicate a 10' drop. Fairly steep, would need a climb check to go up and a dex check to go down without damage.


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## mips42

I have a friend who dropped down from a 10' ledge, slipped, hit their head, was permanently disfigured and nearly died. No, taking damage is not unrealistic.


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## Neurotic

I'm sorry for your friend, that must have been one hell of a critical miss  This comes off as a joke, but believe me, it's not. I know people who fell and hurt themselves by falling on level ground. And jumping from second stair (about 45cm (cca 20 inches) height difference (broken arm and leg respectively). Any jump / fall is dangerous.

I semi-regularly jumped from the balcony (first floor) of my house even as a kid and well into teen years. The worse I've had is landing on half a brick hidden in earth, landed with my heel onto it. It hurt, but nothing broke. Its not unrealistic, but its not hard either. Esp. if you're trained in Athletics / Jumping / Parachuting...maybe I was just lucky.


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## tuxgeo

I want to say here that the map that mips42 posted showing the layout of the village of Phandalin shows two raw-earth drops from the level area where the ruins of Tresendar Manor stand to a lower, level skirt of land that is overall wider than the top level (of course) and then down to the level of the rest of the town below that. 

The road from town does switchback to accomodate the rise. . . .


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## Neurotic

Back to the topic, what is DC for the drop?


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## Neurotic

Small ad for my country - we are tourist country so, feel free to check it out.

And they forgot we invented a tie


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## mips42

DC 14 to drop down without damage.


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## Neurotic

Thanks. That will happen this round unless thugs move far enough toward the road that he can simply block the way. Or trogdor returns.


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## tuxgeo

Trogdor1992's last activity on EN World was on Sunday, 23rd October, 2016 at 05:51 PM*, as stated on his Profile page. I have no idea of his current status in the physical world. 

* I'm guessing that EN World shows the activity time as 05:51 PM because I'm on the west coast of the US, whereas it might show some different time stamp to somebody who is in some other time zone.


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## mips42

So i injured myself today in a way that makes typing difficult and potentially painful. So, if my posts are a bit terse, this is why.


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## Axel

mips42 said:


> So i injured myself today in a way that makes typing difficult and potentially painful. So, if my posts are a bit terse, this is why.




Sorry, I lol'd. Hope your hands/arms/fingers get better soon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Neurotic

We could make a pause until ... hm...there will be vacations and everything...after New Year? Say we continue on January 3rd? That way mips would have time to heal and we wouldn't have to loose anyone to vacations.

I don't plan on traveling, so I will be available for the whole time, but it's an option to consider.


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## mips42

vote?


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## Axel

mips42 said:


> vote?




Carry on. No pause. Takes us a month per combat round anyway


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## Neurotic

Indeed. But that is because mips cannot type  
We can continue, of course. It's not that long until New Year.

So, Axel / Brlo gets two shots (one for the last round and one for this where thugs only moved) then the rest of us get one action...and then we're in melee (again), right?

VOTE: continue if mips can type


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## tuxgeo

I vote we put this adventure on pause for a few weeks, at least. 

Reason: Recovery from injuries should not be rushed. (Look at how long it took Tiger Woods to get back into golf after two consecutive spinal surgeries: it was 15 months this last time!) 

As for myself, I'm going to be "out of the area" for a couple of weeks, but I'm only traveling a couple of hundred miles, and will have internet connectivity when I get there. 

mips42: You might wish to consider the possibility of re-opening the game to newer applicants once you're able to type more easily. Depending on interest, there could be a chance to get the party back up to five or six players, if enough people haven't already played LMoP. (Could some folks conceivably get the Starter Set as a Christmas present, and want to play LMoP without having to learn to DM first?)


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## Neurotic

I know a guy who didn't play anything but 4e. He might be interested. I didn't see him online since 4e living crashed, but he never dropped out of the games we played.


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## mips42

What a week. Just plain tired. Did you ever have one of those weeks where it seems like everything breaks? Yep.
 Replaced:
 Thermostat in the house (Yay, heat!)
 Microwave
 Hot water pot

Repaired:
 Circular saw
 Windshield wipers on one car
 two computers

 Yep, just tired. Luckily my wound is doing lots better and I am ready for a new year of Gaming! My sweetie got me a Players Handbook for Christmas!
 Hope you all had good holidays as well, whatever you celebrate.


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## Neurotic

My year started with dead car battery. Luckily, I pay instance against random events so got it started for free and replace today (not for free). But it could be worse  it always can.

Happy New Year everyone!

Good to see you recovering, mips!


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## mips42

Yep, soon will just a scar as a reminder. Yay?


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## mips42

I am in no way positive but I believe Castagyr was at 11hp pre-corruption.


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## Axel

2016 was a crappy year for a lot of reasons. George Michael was just the last of them. 

2017 can only be better, right?


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## tuxgeo

Happy Belated New Year to one and all. I'm back from farther south, and we're getting repeated "atmospheric river" rain/snow storms here, with periods of ice and freezing rain. However, I expect things to get better this year. (Confidence is a lot more useful than despondency.)


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## Neurotic

[MENTION=6801450]Trogdor1992[/MENTION] is back online, so he might know how many (if any) spells remain to Castagyr. We could use some healing / smiting / whatever!


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## mips42

we're sorry, the game you have tried to reach is temporarily off-line, please try again later.
 Sorry, some dirty rotten creep busted out my cars' window last night and all day today was spent dealing with that. I'll post again when I have more time.


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## Neurotic

mips42 said:


> we're sorry, the game you have tried to reach is temporarily off-line, please try again later.
> Sorry, some dirty rotten creep busted out my cars' window last night and all day today was spent dealing with that. I'll post again when I have more time.




 Bad luck! No worries, we'll wait.


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## tuxgeo

Best wishes for speedy replacement, with insurance covering the whole thing; and more importantly, wishes that it never happens to you again. 

Somehow, I doubt they'll catch the creep who did it unless there were witnesses.


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## mips42

Oh, no. The insurance deductible is $250.00 and the window will be about $180, so I get to pay for that. Plus about $300-$400 to replace what they stole.
 AND I found out today that I likely have a leak between the water meter and my house which, again, I get to pay to repair PLUS whatever water leaks between now and then.
 This is all in addition to the thermostat going out in the family business and the week-long ice storm we had (which caused us to have to be closed for a week AND my wife not being able to get to her 2nd job AND me getting about 50% of the hours I'd normally get from MY second job)
 Can someone please convince the universe that I'm done, now?


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## Neurotic

I'd click Laugh at this post if it wasn't so serious. But your approach to all the trouble seems positive which is important. Hold on! After you hit bottom, you can only go up. You still have your job, your car, your wife...there are more important things than possessions. I know it sounds corny, but take it from someone who lost a house, a city and a father to war at 14.. And yet, I finished the school, college, have an apartment, wife, kids...sure there were hard times, but you have to persevere.

Be positive, solve problems one by one and things will look better in no time. Don't forget the wife, you have each other!

Finally, UNIVERSE, listen up! Mips is done for, go bother someone else!


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## mips42

found out yesterday that it's definitely the main (from the meter to the house) that's leaking. Only $1000.00 to fix it. Yeesh.


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## Neurotic

Ouch! Insurance?


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## tuxgeo

These are times when your friendly, neighborhood Credit Union might be able to help. 

Whatever route you choose, Good Luck!


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## tuxgeo

From the IC thread: 


mips42 said:


> Lister: Where is everyone Hol?
> Holly: They're dead Dave.
> Lister: Who is?
> Holly: Everybody Dave.
> Lister: What Captain Holister?
> Holly: Everybody's dead Dave.
> Lister: What Todd Hunter?
> Holly: Everybody's dead Dave.
> Lister: What Selby?
> Holly: They're all dead, everybody's dead Dave.
> Lister: Peterson isn't, is he?
> Holly: Everybody is dead Dave.
> Lister: Not Chen?
> Holly: Gorden Bennet, yes Chen, everybody, everybody's dead Dave.
> Lister: Rimmer?
> Holly: He's dead Dave, everybody's dead, everybody is dead Dave.
> Lister: Wait, are you trying to tell me everybody's dead?




Yeah, that's the situation, alright. It's definitely looking like a TPK here. Let's break this post into sections: 

Finally met "Iarno" who carries a smoky-glass staff. 
He talks as though he's the leader of the Redbrands. 
An Internet search gives the name, "Iarno Albrek:" 
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Iarno_Albrek

". . . broke ties with the Lords' Alliance and created the Redbrands under 
the guidance of Nezznar. . . ." 

For his stats, the DM uses the "Evil Mage" in the back of the adventure. 
https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0339/05/1407267516731.png
HP 22 (5d8) - AC 12 - Speed 30 - SAVES: INT +5, WIS +3 
STR 9, DEX 14, CON 11, INT 17, WIS 12, CHA 11 
Challenge Rating 1 (200 XP) 

The mage is a 4th-level spellcaster, +5 tohit, Spell Save DC 13, knowing the 
following spells from the wizard's spell list: 
• Cantrips (at will): light, mage hand, shocking grasp 
• 1st level (4 slots): charm person, magic missile 
• 2nd level (3 slots): hold person, misty step 


Okay, so the "Iarno" that the party is now facing has already cast Magic Missile twice, dropping Townmaster Harbin Wester to 0 Hit Points the first time, and damaging Eddicus for 5 points of damage (among other things) the second time. Each Magic Missile casting delivers three (3) magic darts at an effect of 5 points of damage apiece, or four (4) magic darts if cast at 2nd level. The magic darts _always_ deal their damage, without having to roll to hit. 

If the Iarno in this adventure is per the book, then that means that he still has two (2) more 1st-level spell slots available, plus three (3) 2nd-level spell slots available. With *one* more casting of Magic Missile at 1st level, he could drop Eddicus (who is at a mere 3 HP currently) with one dart, and deal 10 points of damage to Leonan with the other two darts of that casting. That would be enough damage to drop Leonan to 0 HP, because Leonan is currently at 9 HP per Neurotic's post #446. 

That *one* impending 1st-level casting of Magic Missile would therefore leave Brlo, Eddicus, and Leonan unconscious on the ground at 0 HP and rolling death saves. 
All Iarno would then need to do is move back where Castagyr cannot see him (and therefore cannot charge him), and drop Castagyr the next round with a 2nd-level casting of Magic Missile. 

The party's only hope for survival now is to submit to Iarno's rule. 
_They're not going to do that, are they?_ . . . (I would hope not.)

On a related note: If this "Iarno" is per the book, he started with 22 Hit Points. Eddicus has hit him with an arrow for 5 damage, and has another arrow rolled for 8 more damage. That's 13, and not enough to drop Iarno. This turn, Leonan didn't attack Iarno, Castagyr didn't attack Iarno, and Brlo is unconscious . . . "and rolling death saves, Dave." 
Whatever else happens, it's now Iarno's turn again, and the Redbrands, and Sildar, and the town. 

mips42 has already called it: "everybody's dead"


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## Neurotic

I agree. Ever since Castagyr charged after the fleeing thug and separated the party, we were under constant fire and essentially all thugs were after us. Even with mips timely rescue by allowing us to setup outside we were badly outmatched (and spent most of our resources). If we left Castagyr to his own devices and retreated, we would be in much better situation...but that is not something that I can see happening in normal good party.

There is one chance that I can see. 
We get lucky (GM fiat) and Iarno only targets city fighters (NPCs) or roles poorly on Leonan leaving him standing after he drops Eddicus (sorry, I cannot see you remaining concious).
AND Castagyr just dropped the thug blocking the path (he did 22 damage after all)

This way, Castagyr can move (and cannot reach Iarno this round), but has one spell that might decide the outcome _Command_ FLEE or SURRENDER or whatever is the command that takes away the action from the target (this one is also his last) - he already smote twice. And this assumes he didn't cast anything before - I remember he used his breath weapon on the bridge after the fleeing thug. The luck is that Iarno (mage proficient in WIS saves) fails the save.

In this case, Leonan is not neccessary. If this fails, next round he can do 1d8 (shocking grasp) or 1d4+3 (dagger) and Castagyr could do 1d8+3 (which averages on 5+8 = 13 + Eddicus 5 = 18...too little, too late.


BUT imagine if we survive this without DM intervention! What tale to tell. And what paladin to kick out of the party!  I cannot see Leonan continuing this with Castagyr without some serious in-game discussion. But since Trogdor didn't re-join us, I'm guessing this is moot anyhow.

I like the adventure and would hate to see it close. And I know one player who took over another character whos player disappeared who might be willing to make another character or take over Castagyr. If you're willing to continue.


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## tuxgeo

I'm basically _done_ with Eddicus. He didn't work out as planned: it just takes too long to switch between shield and bow when time is pressing. I was going to revise him to include materials beyond the Basic Set, but that has been ongoing for months and I'm still not satisfied with the results. Too many enemies are proficient with their DEX saves against his "Sacred Flame" cantrip; but for him to be revised to get something else better is a balancing act that I haven't mastered yet.

I agree that Iarno cannot leave Eddicus standing, if this Iarno has any spell slots left at all, due to the solid damage the cleric has been dealing. If Eddicus deals 9 more damage to Iarno, the mage is down; and 9 is well within reach of rolling 1d6+3 for the shortbow; therefore, Iarno now has to drop Eddicus or flee.


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## Neurotic

I missed the part of 13 damage. In that case 1 attack with good roll can drop him. And Castagyr with smite for 3d8+3 is almost certain to drop him. Yeah, I can see him droping the paladin first risking one more arrow. We're lucky he doesn't have sleep, he could drop us all at the hitpoint totals we're at


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## tuxgeo

If Iarno were to use a 2nd-level spell slot, giving him four (4) magic darts using Magic Missile, he would be able to divide the darts evenly between Eddicus and Castagyr, dropping both at once. Then he wouldn't even have to move back some distance for the sake of avoiding a charge. Consequently, I think you're right that Castagyr would need to be one of Iarno's targets; but does Iarno know that? He has seen Leonan deliver a puny 2 damage to each of two Redbrands using Acid Splash this round, so he might conclude that the sorcerer is less of a threat to him than the paladin is, just based on what the mage has already seen. (Did he see the heavy damage Castagyr did to the one Redbrand who was just smitten?)


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## Neurotic

Castagyr is right next to 10' drop and it is not clear if there is line of sight. And Leonan did some heavy damage earlier.

Besides, we have this discussion about continuation of the adventure and we still don't know if [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION] is up for it what with our poor performance. 
And [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION] is not calling in.


----------



## tuxgeo

I see from Axel's profile page that his last activity on EN World was last night, so he's on -- but not posting to this game. 

Overall, I think it is likely time for mips42 to call the end of this game due to the _approaching end_ of the (single) encounter with the entire Redbrand organization and their boss, and the fact that only two players are still posting, even here in the OOC thread. I'm ready for it to end; and if you let Trogdor1992 have control of Castagyr again, that probably means we won't see any more actions from the paladin, so that ends that.


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## Neurotic

I'm playing other games. Unfortunately, some were DMed by Trogdor. He showed at some point asking if we're up for continuance, but he didn't continue any other. But I play in others so this one isn't critical for me. But I still like the adventure. Besides, I want to see it end (even in TPK) 

And Axel posts here, Brlo is incapacitated.


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## tuxgeo

Lest we forget: 

Caelynn Amastacia, CG Female High Elf Sage Wizard, formerly played by SuperZero
Brachnuss, LG Male Human Folk Hero Fighter, formerly played by mudbunny
Garret Underbough, CN Male Lightfoot Halfling Criminal Burglar Rogue, formerly played by PierceSG
Vottr Rockseeker, NG Male Mountain Dwarf Soldier Fighter, formerly played by GameDoc
Ivan Kakarov, CN Male Human Sage Warlock (Tome Pact), formerly played by toasterferret

Furthermore, Castagyr had originally been played by perrinmiller, so that one PC has lost two (2) players. 

That's a total of seven (7) players who have dropped out so far, not counting Axel who might still be interested in playing Brlo, though we don't know that. That's a lot of players rotating out of the game.


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## Neurotic

True. But most went out within weeks of starting. A bit heavier than expected. But it is normal for PbP games to loose some players. Since 5e is still 'in test' for many it is better to lose some than having uninvolved playets


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## Neurotic

And don't forget perrinmiller left because he tried to force the party on one direction and then got mad because we didn't follow. First on my in-game objection and later with you or Axel starting hostilities at the tavern


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## Neurotic

So, I just read the adventure. While direct assault seems hard to pull off, it also seems quite possible. Infiltration, room by room and not splitting the party and alerting everyone at once...that was (I think) deciding factor. We just couldn't win the war of attrition, too many enemies at once. And we had a player disappear in the middle of the combat. Twice.

If this was regular campaign (face-to-face) I'd put PCs in a cell as prisoners and either escape by their own or having township finally raise against the thugs. There are several capable citizens. Anyhow, [MENTION=6746242]mips42[/MENTION], good try, thank you for your time.

Beating a dead horse now, stopping. I hope we play again at some point. Thank you [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION], [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION] for fun characters, we tried, we died. Poor adventurers


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## tuxgeo

Another possible approach to the adventure (which I do not have, and therefore have not read) is for the party to arrive at Phandelver, rest over night, gather information, and then go after any other quest than trying to take down the Redbrands. If they went after the quest of Sister Garaele (is that her name?) who wanted help in going east-by-northeast up the Triboar Trail to speak to a -- what was it again? -- Yes! take a jeweled comb to Agatha the Banshee as a gift to mollify her, so the party can ask her about the whereabouts of a spellbook that had belonged to Bowgentle. There were other quests offered, too. If the party followed up on any of those quests, they might have reached 3rd Level before assailing the Redbrand hideout, and might have had a better chance. (If only it hadn't been for the "my way or the highway" Paladin.)


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## mips42

See OOC thread for the latest. I wanted to finish it, really I did.


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## Neurotic

We can still. While I read the finale, this is boss fight after all, we can still go after other stuff. In the meantime,  Glass mage can establish himself as a mayor and hunt after us after a while. We level up, find some more adventurers... but find the town with more goblinoids. We could even be asked for help by Glasstaff (they are ignoring him)


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## Neurotic

We could try with alternate characters. Or we could keep these, it would be fun to survive based on diplomacy - even if we effectively loose this.


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## tuxgeo

I am not interested in continuing with Lost Mines of Phandelver. As I said, I am basically done with Eddicus. (<- link to earlier post, wherein I said that.) I'm not currently in any active games. It's fine.
We had our TPK. Let it be. 

Here's a thought: Neurotic, you might want to start up a new version of LMoP on EN World, with you as the DM, and call for new players. Maybe you can get mips42 to play in your game, although he has read the adventure.


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## Neurotic

How about having new character(s) join?
I have several active, but I like this one. And we didn't get our TPK  we didn't fight 'till the last breath' - but yes, I understand.

I cannot commit time enough to GM for at least another month - I'm currently running two projects to completion, one needs to be done before 17th and I can tell we'll overshoot. And another is burning hot right now. Make it another month to clear the backlog afterwards and you're looking at Easter time before I can do more than follow the game.

As-is, I'm not opposed to the idea and I may start one, I'll ping you when I start recruiting.


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## tuxgeo

Re: 


> "I'll ping you when I start recruiting."



Don't, please. I am exiting play-by-post mode for now. 

Good luck recruiting, and have fun with your games.


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