# Latest E-Tools Patch



## Greyhawk_DM (Jun 3, 2003)

Any idea when WOTC will approve and release the latest patch??


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## Ranger REG (Jun 3, 2003)

No idea.


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## kingpaul (Jun 3, 2003)

I am not an agent of WotC...or of CMP for that matter
Please keep in mind that this is con season, WotC is also dealing with the release of 3.5 and is working on getting 3.5, D&Dg and ELH into the SRD.  It might take a while.


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## herald (Jun 3, 2003)

I honestly think that it will be any day now. It's hard to tell exactly what the hold up is. For all we knw, were waitng for the web guy to post it. 

As far as I can tell, they just got thier 10th business day on it and they are on the west coast. 

I know that CMP wants to start selling data sets very soon. So for all involved, I hope it's soon.

I'm getting giddy just thinking about what I can do once I have the patch and the data sets.


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## MojoGM (Jun 3, 2003)

I, too, think it will be any day now.

Though I admit this is more wishful thinking than any hard data.

Not to complain (gods forbid!  ) but one would think WOC would make this a top priority above all else.  I mean, we buy ETools in good faith, and it is full of problems.  The Fluid patch does not really cut it (to say the least).

Now, Codemonkey comes along and actually FIXES the sub-standard product, and does a great job as far as can be told. 

Everything is DONE, and all it needs it WOC to check the work and give the go ahead.  And yet we wait...and wait...and wait.

But I'm speaking more out of impatience than actual anger...I just want the patch!

Ok...breathe deep...and wait....and wait...


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## Ghostwind (Jun 3, 2003)

I've got the patch (part of an exclusive review arrangement) and I have to say that I have yet to find anything wrong with it. Every bug that I had an issue with is fixed. It's everything it was meant to be given the restricitions of code. My biggest grip is that it still won't do templates, but as Mynex told me, "That requires a complete re-write of the source code."

I believe everyone will be satisfied with the fixes made. There will be a review of the new patch in this month's d20Zine! once I finish writing it.


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## Aeris Winterood (Jun 3, 2003)

*Ghostwind....*

Maybe you could send that patch to me as well... I want to see if I can "break" it..... Oh, well..... I tried.... Now, if WOTC can get of their arses........ Besides, the first data sets are to arrive in 7 days.....


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## EricNoah (Jun 3, 2003)

Sweet!

Say, could you be sure to test combos of natural armor, etc. to make sure improper stacking isn't occurring?  The tests I used:

Equip an ogre an amulet of natural armor and make sure it doesn't stack with his own thick hide.

Equip a character a suit of chain mail and bracers of armor and make sure they don't stack.


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## EricNoah (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: Ghostwind....*



			
				Aeris Winterood said:
			
		

> *Besides, the first data sets are to arrive in 7 days..... *




Eh, sorry to rain on you, but they've been pushed back to early July.  Lemme see if I can dig up the thread where Mynex announces it.


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## Ghostwind (Jun 3, 2003)

I'll be sure to check those, Eric.


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## EricNoah (Jun 3, 2003)

Here's the thread with the July release date for the first data sets:

http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com...name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=787&highlight=

---------

Bad news - The release _date_ (and I mean single here) is pushed back to july 1st (yes, this year. ). 

Good news - Reason for this is to make sure that our quality is top notch AND that everything works well together AND correctly (which is the most important aspect). 

We started hitting walls when trying to mix & match stuff, so decided it was better to release them all at once and have everything good to go from the outset. 

Like the other dates, this isn't set in stone, mainly because they will still need to go through WotC's QA.. but I would say a +/- week... we're set on our target date to turn into WotC for their approval, so it should be a smooth transition.


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## EricNoah (Jun 4, 2003)

www.gamingreport.com has posted a full-fledged review.  They gave eTools 1.2 three stars.  They cite somewhat inadequate help files as a problem.

edit:  there were actually 2 more reviews there that I didn't see earlier.  Scores ranged from 2-1/2 to 3 stars.


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## theoremtank (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm glad to hear eTools will be at working quality.

It is odd that so many of us will finally reinstall this program again to use it, but then edition 3.5 comes out!  By the way, Codemonkey is working on a 3.5 data set,  but you will have to pay for it.  It might be a good move for Wizard's to pay CodeMonkey a little more to insure that this particular data set be made free to eTools owners.  I think this is the least Wizards could do for our purchase and patience with this substandard software.

If you want to know how much Wizards of the Coast cares about this product.  Just try finding mention of it on their website.  There is next to nothing.


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## EricNoah (Jun 4, 2003)

Well the whole thing has been a bit of an embarrassing fiasco from WotC's point of view, I'm sure.  Things they could have prevented as well as things beyond their control.  

I believe the phrase I used regarding the timing of eTools for 3.0 vs. the arrival of D&D 3.5 was "sadly ironic."  

Still, life's looking up.  And even if I do switch to 3.5, I don't mind paying a bit for the 3.5 data.


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## MojoGM (Jun 4, 2003)

The prices for the 3.5 data set is very low (I think somewhere around $5 per book), so it is not a big deal to me.

CodeMonkey deserves to make money on it, they've done a great job making it workable


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## DaveMage (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm one of those folks who usually buys everything.

However, I will not be going anywhere near this product until it's updated to 3.5, and has *all* D&D data sets available, with the program, for under $60.

In addition, I think it would be nice if Wizards would include future data sets - for free - to those that purchase the physical copy of a book (either via website or include a CD like they did with the 3.0 Player's Handbook).

Does this sound reasonable?  Or am I being unrealistic?


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## Ghostwind (Jun 4, 2003)

I think folks may be getting the wrong perception about the data sets and the folks responsible for them. 

Code Monkey Publishing has only licensed the rights to manufacture these data sets and sell them to the public. They do not (as of yet) own the source code to e-Tools. Nor is Wizards of the Coast responsible for any of the data sets except to approve their use and sale. 

Throughout the whole e-Tools and 3.5 debate, I've seen numerous demands/complaints/etc. that the 3.5 rules (or in this case, data set) should be included at no charge. When you look at the man hours and effort that has been put into making these data sets, the low price being charged for them is more than fair. Especially when you consider that the data sets will be complete and not just snippets of open game content like the files you can get for free for PCGen. As far as I am concerned, this alone makes it very attractive for my personal gaming use.


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## Vrylakos (Jun 4, 2003)

Hello...

I'm out of the loop a bit, but does anyone know the following:

1. Will e-Tools be reworked to do templates at some point in the near future? It's one of the main things I'd rather have automated. I've got the original etools and was somewhat disappointed that templates were missing.

2. Does PC-Gen do templates?

Thanks!

Vrylakos


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## Ghostwind (Jun 4, 2003)

e-Tools will NOT do templates until a complete re-write of the source code has been completed (which CMP is negotiating with Wotc over).

PCGen will do templates. However, if you want a template that is not programmed in, you will have to manually do it by coding it yourself (not the easiests of tasks). 

Either way, it's a no-win scenario.


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## Chaz (Jun 4, 2003)

All things considered im just hoping that the patch will be good enough to make reinstalling ET on my computer a thing I want to do. I havent had ET installed for a long time now. I do have high hopes for the work CMP has done. So maybe I will finaly get to use ET and be happy with it.
 As far as the whole 3.5 thing, well what can you do. Its taken so long for ET to come out in the first place, then to be finaly fixed, that you have to expect that the game will have morphed beyond the programs original basic functionality. 
So the fact that CMP is going to make data sets available for 3.5 when its out is a good thing IMO. And I dont think its unreasonable that they get a samll fee for the time required to code/test/distribute the updates. 

Anyway thats my 2 cents.


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## kingpaul (Jun 5, 2003)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> *PCGen will do templates. However, if you want a template that is not programmed in, you will have to manually do it by coding it yourself (not the easiests of tasks). *



One addition to this statement.  There _is_ a Y! Group dedicated to helping people code their own Lst files.  The group is called PCGenListFileHelp.


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## ruemere (Jun 6, 2003)

*PcGen & Templates*

Coding templates in pcGen is easy for anyone willing to use a template editor (built into pcGen) or do some manual typing. Basics of manual typing took me less than an hour to learn (basically, I have copied SRD material over, changed names and added it to pcGen dirs).

One disclaimer though: pcGen is not a no-brainer program. You must be willing to do some research (especially, if you are going to hand code stuff).

Regards,
Ruemere


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 7, 2003)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Say, could you be sure to test combos of natural armor, etc. to make sure improper stacking isn't occurring?  The tests I used:
> 
> Equip an ogre an amulet of natural armor and make sure it doesn't stack with his own thick hide.
> 
> Equip a character a suit of chain mail and bracers of armor and make sure they don't stack. *




Working on a review copy ...

It doesn't appear to check stacking bonuses.  An ogre with a breastplate, amulet or natural armor, and bracers of armor received the AC bonuses from all the items in addition to his own.   

If you have other requests feel free to post ... the program's huge and I want to give it a good workout for the review.

Edit: Anyone know how to create a multi-classed NPC without having to go to the character editor and level up each level?

Edit 2: Is there a way to restore the original files?  Playing around with the house rules I managed to delete Correlon Larethian.  Probably a Freudian slip; guess the elves didn't need a god anyway ...


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## EricNoah (Jun 7, 2003)

Bummer about the AC stacking issues.  It's something I started bringing up about a year and a half ago and it never got addressed.  

Multiclassed Characters:  I don't have the patched version so I'm speaking of what I know from the unpatched:

You should be able to create multiclassed characters right on the main character creation screen.  Example:  click barbarian, click add, click druid, click add and now you've got yourself a Barb1/Druid1.

You can't do this method with PrC characters because you need to meet prerequisites before adding PrC levels.  So make the character who could take this class, then give him some XP so he levels up, then you can add a level of PrC.  

Restoring original files:  Other than re-installing, you would want to download and use Davin Church's ET Helper to import and export custom data from the database.  You'd have to find someone who hadn't deleted the entry and have them export it and send it to you.  This would assume that you had a copy of ET Helper that was updated for eTools 1.2, which I don't believe Davin has released yet.  But the whole issue brings up a question:  how were you able to delete "core" data?


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 7, 2003)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Bummer about the AC stacking issues.  It's something I started bringing up about a year and a half ago and it never got addressed.  *



*

Yeah, there's a number of other issues I'd like to see improved -- like equipping magic ammunition, actually identifying specialist wizards on their char sheets, and the like.  Ironically, as far as char generation goes, there are a number of things that HeroForge (or Jamis Buck's NPC generators) does significantly better.




			You should be able to create multiclassed characters right on the main character creation screen.  Example:  click barbarian, click add, click druid, click add and now you've got yourself a Barb1/Druid1.
		
Click to expand...



Yep, figured that out for creation -- what I was trying to do was to use the random generator to generate a multi-classed NPC -- I don't think it can be done.  You either generate the NPC partially with one class, then add the others, or start from scratch.  I'm trying to save time by having the program calculate feats, skill points, etc for me (something JB's generator does quite well for M/C NPCs, though it doesn't do the equipment and weapons that Etools does).




			You can't do this method with PrC characters because you need to meet prerequisites before adding PrC levels.  So make the character who could take this class, then give him some XP so he levels up, then you can add a level of PrC.
		
Click to expand...



What made that particularly obnoxious is that you can't back up to correct a mistake.  I was building an arcane archer to test the PrCs, and missed the BAB requirement by one (wiz3/Ftr4) -- but I couldn't go back and change a level of Wizard to Fighter to correct (either start over, or add another level of fighter).  HF can handle error correction like this with a mouse click.




			Restoring original files:  Other than re-installing, you would want to download and use Davin Church's ET Helper to import and export custom data from the database.  You'd have to find someone who hadn't deleted the entry and have them export it and send it to you.  This would assume that you had a copy of ET Helper that was updated for eTools 1.2, which I don't believe Davin has released yet.  But the whole issue brings up a question:  how were you able to delete "core" data?
		
Click to expand...



One ill-placed mouse click in the house rules section, go figure.

The program's got general error recovery problems (sad to say I've got education and training in usability evaluations for both hardware and software systems, so these things tend to jump out and smack me).  I reinstalled over the original install -- but didn't correct the problem.  I had to remove the entire program, then reinstall it, to correct it, but I did get it fixed.  

Sigh ... more playing.  There are some nice features; the lack of certain items and some nitnoid interface problems irk me though.

Note to software developers: Red text on Black backgrounds is NEVER a good interface design decision!

Any other items anyone wants tested?*


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## Davin (Jun 8, 2003)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *This would assume that you had a copy of ET Helper that was updated for eTools 1.2, which I don't believe Davin has released yet.*



*Poof!*  Ok, it's out now.


			
				Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> *I reinstalled over the original install -- but didn't correct the problem.  I had to remove the entire program, then reinstall it, to correct it, but I did get it fixed.*



I would also have assumed that a reinstall would have fixed that for you.  But if you'd like to shortcut that repair in the future, just keep a copy of the Database.mdb file somewhere.  (If you'd like, my ET Helper program can make that easier for you, thanks to Eric's suggestion long ago.)


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 8, 2003)

Thanks Davin.

I've installed ET Helper -- useful program that -- and squirreled away the original database just in case.

Played around with the editor, too, trying to simulate 3.5 variant classes.  It's a neat tool -- but I got fatal errors every time I tried to save my variant classes.


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## EricNoah (Jun 8, 2003)

If you e-mail him those error messages, you'll find he's VERY responsive.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 8, 2003)

No need.  I shut the program down, restarted, and now no errors.  I swear, one of these days I'm switching to Linux.

Now I at least have a (tentative) 3.5 Ranger!


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## Davin (Jun 8, 2003)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> *Now I at least have a (tentative) 3.5 Ranger! *



A word of warning on those alternate classes -- the class special features (the abilities you gain at specific levels) don't always work.  While ET Helper does put them in the database properly, E-Tools 1.00 was built to treat many of them as simple "notes" and determine the actual features gained by "hard-coding" in the program.  Until such time as CMP gets a chance to fix those places to use the database instead, you should test anything you put in there that's supposed to have an E-Tools effect (like the ability to choose a favored enemy, for instance) to make sure it will do what you asked.

Otherwise, enjoy!

(If your Ranger would like a challenge, create a new material called "Wet Noodles" to make his armor and weapons out of.)


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 8, 2003)

Yeah, I noticed not all of the features necessarily make it in.  I don't mind, particularly, as it was mostly an experiment to see how it worked.

I had to kludge the 3.5 Ranger anyway, putting it in as two classes (one with TWF abilities, one with archery abilities) to get the combat styles to work.  Some of the feats don't affect the stat blocks, but they do print out on the feat list, which is cool enough.  The capability is a bonus more than anything else.


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## Vrylakos (Jun 9, 2003)

So if bonuses are stacking incorrectly, how useful is this product to me? I guess it will speed NPC creation, but I'll still have to jimmy the final stats... sigh...

Will these things be corrected eventually?

Vrylakos


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## EricNoah (Jun 9, 2003)

Olgar Shiverstone, something to check:  original eTools only had the adults of each dragon built.  Does 1.2 have all dragons in?  (I know the data had been subsequently added by fans, but was curious if it made it in to the final product)?


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 9, 2003)

All the dragon age categories are in.  The monster section looks very complete (I didn't find any ommissions).  I like the ability to take virtually any monster and add class levels to it (either built or by the generator) or with a couple of clicks advance the monster by HD; the short tactics blurb plus full special ability writeups in the stat blocks are a nice bonus, too.

I thought it was neat in the documentation that you've got virtually the entire text of the PHB and MM (though I'm wondering why the DMG was omitted, or if that's just the review copy I'm using).

It definitely has the potential to replace the four separate products that I use when preparing adventures and the like.  It's kind of a toss-up for me right now; those products do some things well that eTools doesn't; eTools does things those products can't.

With the 3.5 data sets and other upcoming releases, though, I could see myself switching.  It's almost there -- hopefully a few last minute tweaks can eliminate the last few rules errors (otherwise, one more patch).

Ironically it's taught me a lot more about the rules over the past day -- I keep seeing some skill bonus or penalty to which I say "that doesn't look right" -- only to flip open the PHB or DMG and find out: yep, they got it right - -little things like -2 penalties to craft checks for not having the appropriate tools equipped, and that sort of thing.


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## EricNoah (Jun 9, 2003)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> *
> Ironically it's taught me a lot more about the rules over the past day -- I keep seeing some skill bonus or penalty to which I say "that doesn't look right" -- only to flip open the PHB or DMG and find out: yep, they got it right - -little things like -2 penalties to craft checks for not having the appropriate tools equipped, and that sort of thing. *




Oh, definitely -- there's nothing like inputting a bunch of monsters to teach you all about the rules.  Creatures with a Climb or Swim speed gain a racial bonus to those skills but it's usually not mentioned in the text.  Some "types" are automatically proficient with certain weapon groups.  Yadda yadda yadda.


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## Mynex (Jun 10, 2003)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> *
> I thought it was neat in the documentation that you've got virtually the entire text of the PHB and MM (though I'm wondering why the DMG was omitted, or if that's just the review copy I'm using).
> *




It's the review copy. 

The Full PHb is indeed there, all nice and broken out into logical sections...

Neither the DMG nor the MM are completed in the review copy though.

The help files will be completed before the final 1.2 patch is released to the public (along with a better 'how to use' help section - maybe not much better, but we're trying to touch it up!)...

Hey!  Wait a second!  You didn't say anything about the new spiffy image of the main screeen!!!!  *evil grin*


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## elbandit (Jun 10, 2003)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> *It definitely has the potential to replace the four separate products that I use when preparing adventures and the like.  It's kind of a toss-up for me right now; those products do some things well that eTools doesn't; eTools does things those products can't.
> *




What four products do you use for preparing adventures?


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## theoremtank (Jun 10, 2003)

More thoughts on the the eTools patch and the 3.5 revision...

I completely agree that CodeMonkey should make money for their hard work.  But let me state what I see as a couple of facts and my issue with the situation.

Facts:
-Wizards of the Coast released eTools approximatley one year ago.
-eTools was unfinished but nonetheless they sold it.
-eTools lacked accuracy in its data (bugs far beyond a standard comercial software release) and therefore was unusable to many folks.
-eTools was never fixed and brought to an acceptable level of data correctness (few consider the first beta patch a reasonable fix).
-One year later we are finally expecting a patch which may bring this software into a usable state.
-Problem now is that the 3.0 data set is outdated and we are to be charged by CodeMonkey to upgrade to 3.5.

Resolution....
CodeMonkey should make money for their work on the 3.5 data set, but the eTools consumer should not be paying for it, *Wizards of the Coast should*.  The financial burden needs to fall upon Wizards as compensation for selling their consumers unfinished software.  This coming patch by CodeMonkey will be for most of us, the first official release of eTools.  Thus it should contain the 3.5 data set at no cost to the consumer that already paid for a finished product.  Wizards has not yet paid finacially for selling the eTools lemon to their loyal customer base.

I do however feel that the consumer should pay CodeMonkey for the other data sets they make available (but that is another post).


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 10, 2003)

Mynex said:
			
		

> *
> Hey!  Wait a second!  You didn't say anything about the new spiffy image of the main screeen!!!!  *evil grin* *




Sorry -- you'll have to wait for the review.   Must say I prefer it to the Athach.  Who puts an Athach on a title screen! 

Good thing help is getting some help.  Right now it reminds me of Microsoft help -- which isn't a compliment.



> What four products do you use for preparing adventures?




Right now:

For detailed character creation & editing (anything that results in a full character sheet): HeroForge.

For NPC generation & classed monsters: Jamis's Buck's NPC Generator (available here on EN World).

For generic monster stat blocks: A custom text file with compiled stat blocks from the SRD (just cut/paste).

For random treasures (used seldom): Jamis Buck's Treasure generator.

I've a dragon generator, too, but don't use it often.

ETools definitely replaces the last three tools listed above.  It doesn't handle random multi-classed NPCs, which is a strength of JB's NPC generator, but it does generate equipment and include that in the stat block (which JB doesn't), so ETools has a slight edge there.  

As for character creation, I haven't decided what I prefer yet.  Heroforge is nice in that you can do the entire character at once over many, many levels, still keeping each level separate in case you need to make a change.  ETools has more features than HF, but they take more effort to use, and the ability to go back and make changes isn't there in many cases.

I need to go check out a recent version of PCGen, too -- the last version I played with was 2.8 (I think?), and I had a lot of issues with that version, but I know they've made a lot of changes and improvements since then.

'Course, I'm fairly familiar with VB and programming Excel macros, so hacking Heroforge is pretty easy, which probably explains my preference for it.  You can modify a lot of data in ETools fairly easily (though some of the material is hard coded).


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## Vrylakos (Jun 10, 2003)

theoremtank said:
			
		

> *More thoughts on the the eTools patch and the 3.5 revision...
> 
> I completely agree that CodeMonkey should make money for their hard work.  But let me state what I see as a couple of facts and my issue with the situation.
> 
> ...




You know, I agree with this completely.
Months and months ago, I bought a program I have been unable to use.

Now I'm going to get a "free patch" at the same time the company abandons the edition of the game the program is useful for?

This is ridiculous and a slap in the face of the consumers who trusted WOTC to deliver a useful product a year ago.

Vrylakos


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## Mynex (Jun 10, 2003)

Well I can't say I disagree entirely or agree entirely on the 3.0/3.5 thing...

I said my peace (repeatedly) on the Wizards boards over things *cough* back in the day.  

But we're going to make it as painless as possible, remember, not everyone is going to update to 3.5 right away, a lot of people are going to stick to 3.0 for various reasons (Money mainly I'm sure)... but coding wise, there'll be little changes required for things to support 3.5, it's 95% data driven, so the data sets for the 3.5 books will be the same as the 3.0 books now (for PCGen) i.e. 2.50$ each or 5.00$ for all three... that's the best we can do to lessen the pain of it. 

Wish we could do more, but that's all we can do, is try to make it as inexpensive as possible for people...


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## MojoGM (Jun 10, 2003)

Mynex said:
			
		

> * (snip) 2.50$ each or 5.00$ for all three... that's the best we can do to lessen the pain of it.
> 
> Wish we could do more, but that's all we can do, is try to make it as inexpensive as possible for people... *




I'd say that's plenty.  Whatever you feel about the 3.0/3.5 data debate, whoever you think SHOULD pay for them, there is no way you can really complain about $5 to upgrade all three.

Now, WOC did put out a bogus product, but they could have just left it at that, forgotten about it, and no matter how much most of us complained, we STILL would have bought new stuff from them.

Thank the gods CodeMonkey took it over (Thanks Mynex).  The small amount we have to pay to upgrade (after the patch, which is free) is a paltry sum.

Now....where is that patch ?????     

~MojoGM


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## Vrylakos (Jun 10, 2003)

Mynex said:
			
		

> *Well I can't say I disagree entirely or agree entirely on the 3.0/3.5 thing...
> 
> I said my peace (repeatedly) on the Wizards boards over things *cough* back in the day.
> 
> ...




Oh, I'll pay, if only to get my $30 of functionality from eTools... though I'd like to know if things like armor stacking will be addressed at some future date... perhaps the 3.5 stuff?

Vrylakos


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## Ranger REG (Jun 10, 2003)

AFAIC, I'm not ready to move to 3.5e yet. In fact, I'm not even excited about it as I was when 3e came out three years ago. So _e-Tools_ current incarnation (with the 1.2 patch) would be of great use to me, that I may actually pick up a copy of the software at my FLGS. (Most likely not v1.2, but will download and install the patch.)

BTW, been meaning to ask Code Monkey, did you find it difficult trying to fix the mess that the original programmers developed? Was there ever a time you wanted to just scrap the whole thing in frustration and just provide an upgrade software with your own program?


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## Aeris Winterood (Jun 11, 2003)

Mynex said:
			
		

> *Well I can't say I disagree entirely or agree entirely on the 3.0/3.5 thing...
> 
> ...so the data sets for the 3.5 books will be the same as the 3.0 books now (for PCGen) i.e. 2.50$ each or 5.00$ for all three... that's the best we can do to lessen the pain of it.
> 
> Wish we could do more, but that's all we can do, is try to make it as inexpensive as possible for people... *





Geez, big darn deal... so I paid an extra 5 bucks for 3 books... Sign me up!!!!!!


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## theoremtank (Jun 11, 2003)

To the response of some of the posts before this I would like to reiterate a point...

I believe that CodeMonkey should make money for their data sets and work.  They are, as far as I believe, good people in the RPG business.

My arguement is with Wizards of the Coast who is ultimately responsible for our satisfaction with eTools.  We eTools consumers paid for a finished product but have been sitting on a  lemon for about 1 year.  Many of us have not used this purchase as the level of data correctness is intolerable and absolutely unprofessional.  Now, thanks to CodeMonkey we are most likely getting a version of eTools that will function at a level of professional standard.  Most of us paid $30-$40 for the eTools utility to support the current version of D&D, that was 3.0.  eTools did not sufficiently or accurately support D&D 3.0 for the life of its existence.  Now D&D version 3.5 is upon us and we are only now supposedly getting acceptable support for the obsolete version 3.0.  We however must pay for version 3.5 support in eTools.

Now why is Wizards not covering the cost of the 3.5 data sets for their eTools consumer as they were the ones who screwed up initialy and sold us nonfunctioning software that is now obsolete?  I know the 3.5 data sets are $5 dollars, but nomatter how small this is, Wizards should be covering this cost.  I don't believe CodeMonkey should not receive compesation for their work on them.


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## Davin (Jun 11, 2003)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> *that I may actually pick up a copy of the software at my FLGS.*



If you haven't bought it yet, I'd expect the patched version to be on sale directly on CMP's site (when the patch itself becomes available) for the easiest purchase.  YMMV


> *BTW, been meaning to ask Code Monkey, did you find it difficult trying to fix the mess that the original programmers developed?*



I've noticed they've repeatedly bitten their tongues trying to refrain from making derogatory comments on that subject, so I wouldn't necessarily expect a direct answer from them.


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## Ranger REG (Jun 11, 2003)

Davin said:
			
		

> *
> If you haven't bought it yet, I'd expect the patched version to be on sale directly on CMP's site (when the patch itself becomes available) for the easiest purchase.  YMMV*



One problem: lack of plastic.

I would strongly suggest that Wizards start rereleasing _e-Tools_ in the new version (1.2) for those who are plastic-impaired.


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## Chaz (Jun 11, 2003)

theoremtank said:
			
		

> *To the response of some of the posts before this I would like to reiterate a point...
> 
> I believe that CodeMonkey should make money for their data sets and work.  They are, as far as I believe, good people in the RPG business.
> 
> ...




First hi, good seeing you again. As to your point. I think most of us get what you are saying. I think what you need to consider is that this program might well have been totaly dropped by WotC by now if the CMP deal hadnt gone through. Or at the very most we might still be reading about possible patches comming or other such delay tactics that we saw so many times in the past.

 Instead actual work is occuring and the patch is in revue, about to be released(I hope haha). My take on the whole thing is (and this whole reply is opinion- I have no hard facts to back any of this up) that the CMP deal breathed life into ET again as far as WotC was conserned. I bet they were in a hard position in reguards to ET and were hoping for a way out that wouldnt break the bank on an alerady bad investment.

With CMP in the picture they have people ready to work on the program and pick up the slack producing the needed patch for ET for im betting little more than official backing and rights to create data for the copyright material WotC owns for ET and CMP's other products(again my guess - no actual knowledge of any CMP WotC deals).  
So assuming im even close in this assumption and while I agree WotC should be responsible for ET problems, I think in the large picture they have been responsible ( even if its realy late coming).
They are delivering, through CMP, the patch needed to bring ET up to snuff. 

The fact that 3.5 is rolling around is, although unfortunate, a separte issue. Because ET was only suposed to be for 3.0. 

Now that being said the fact that 3.5 data sets will be made available by CMP is a good thing and while I understand your thinking on the issue, WotC didnt ever say ET would be 3.5 compatable. And since CMP will be making this updated material available, and since obviously WotC will be giving them official permission to do so, and since it is a "new" non "3.0" set of data, then it is indeed something we should pay for. Because its not part of the original ET program material. And the fact that WotC has chosen CMP to take care of ET, and because they are allowing them to make 3.5 data available I beleive they(WotC) are doing enough to satisfy their responsibilitys to us.
Should they have done more sooner? Yes. But they have done something finaly and thats better than I expected pre-CMP.

Wow didnt mean to go on so long. I will repeat that all the above is my opinion based on observation and guess work. I have no hard evidence about what agreements WotC or CMP have made. Its all speculation.

Peace.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 17, 2003)

The review of the patched version is up.


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## EricNoah (Jun 18, 2003)

Cool, thanks for the review.  It's good to see that much has been fixed -- looks like a big step forward for those of us who are already users.  Also looks like more steps forward will need to be taken before it's truly ready for prime time.


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## Aeris Winterood (Jun 18, 2003)

*and....*

I concur with Eric.... but.... When will we see the patch???


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## Derulbaskul (Jun 18, 2003)

What I still don't understand is how Core Rules for 2E was a solid and robust piece of software for a very "messy" game, and yet eTools is rubbish despite being designed for an arguably more logical, and therefore easier to code, ruleset?


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## Ranger REG (Jun 18, 2003)

Ask the original software programmers, Fluid Entertainment.


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## Chaz (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: and....*



			
				Aeris Winterood said:
			
		

> *I concur with Eric.... but.... When will we see the patch??? *




  yeah good question. Its all up to WotC now. I would think not much longer, but you never know.




			
				Derulbaskul said:
			
		

> *What I still don't understand is how Core Rules for 2E was a solid and robust piece of software for a very "messy" game, and yet eTools is rubbish despite being designed for an arguably more logical, and therefore easier to code, ruleset? *




Yeah what Ranger REG sais.. gotta ask Fluid about that. But I will just add that the core rules guys worked hard and stuck with supporting thier product. That makes all the dif. I have been using CR2(& CR2X) again lately, and they are great programs for sure.

Peace


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## BryonD (Jun 18, 2003)

Derulbaskul said:
			
		

> *What I still don't understand is how Core Rules for 2E was a solid and robust piece of software for a very "messy" game, and yet eTools is rubbish despite being designed for an arguably more logical, and therefore easier to code, ruleset? *




I'm no e-tools fan, but I will cut them a break here.

3E may be more logical.  But it is also far more modular.  In 2e the variations between fighter A and Fighter B were far more limited.  In 3E there are nearly endless mix and match possibilites.


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## Henry (Jun 19, 2003)

Keep in mind that Fluid did deliver with the original Chargen tool, and did a reasonably good job of it, as well as the Pokemon Software they delivered for WotC prior to that. However, the story Scott Matthews and others told was one of diminishing support, increased bureaucracy, and ever-shrinking funds and deadlines. The fact that every WotC project manager on the project to date quit or was fired and established the legend of the "E-Tools Curse" should tell us something right there.

I don't blame Fluid directly, but a number of people seem to have dropped the ball at Fluid and at WotC, and pointing fingers almost two years after the fact isn't likely to help.

I'm just glad for the sake of all us die-hard PCGen and E-tools fans that Anthony V and Bryan McRoberts got the dialog going that they did.


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## EricNoah (Jun 19, 2003)

E-tools 1.2 has been released!

However ... there seems to be a glitch with the patch itself -- it's nowhere to be found on the download page.  So, at least for a few hours,  the e-tools waiting continues!


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## Monde (Jun 19, 2003)

This patch or program seems to be Cursed....


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 19, 2003)

Looks like they've fixed some additional bugs on the release version, too .... like the natural armor bonus thing.  Good job, CMP!

Hopefully they'll fix the download thingee quickly.


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## Mynex (Jun 19, 2003)

Well the link was fixed.. and about 5 mins after I fixed it, we got hammered. *sigh*

The site is going to be _incredibly_ slow over the next few days people... so have some patience please...

On the upshot, For anyone looking for their patch 'fix' right away, we've got it on several different BitTorrent Servers...

Since I can't even get to my own site right now, feel free to spread that word! 

Thanks everyone for the kind words, it's been a long hard road, but the end of the tunnel is reached... now onto the road with the program!


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## EricNoah (Jun 19, 2003)

how do you find bittorrent servers?


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## Kristian (Jun 19, 2003)

glad you asked because I sure as heck don't know


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## EricNoah (Jun 19, 2003)

ok, figured some stuff out...

First, go here and install the BitTorrent software.  

http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/download.html -- grab the one called Windows Installer if you're running windows.

Once it's installed, there's no need to "run" it -- it will activate on its own.

Then, Go here: http://www.bytemonsoon.com/details.php?id=3417&searched=etools

click the link there and see what happens.


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## MojoGM (Jun 19, 2003)

I'm at work so I'll have to wait on downloading the patch.

I'll bet if you check some of the other file-sharing sites you will find the new patch on there.  If not now, soon.

As this is a free patch, there is nothing wrong with utilizing those services.  CodeMonkeys just cannot do it (or encourage it) due to their contract with Wizards.

But the fans know the score....

I would not encourage this with anything that was being charged for, by the way.  Especially the data sets, for which they charge a VERY reasonable price that they very much deserve.  But for the free patch I'd imagine it is ok...


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## Chaz (Jun 19, 2003)

The darn thing should be put up on every site that will host it. This is just silly. Even if its just temporary. As far as the bit torrent.. im not sure I want software on my system that shares files with multiple other computers. Sounds risky to me.


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## Datt (Jun 19, 2003)

Anybody know how big the patch is?  Maybe someone here can put it up on thier personal site for downloading purposes.  I mean since it is free to anyone and everyone.  Heck you don't even have to own E-Tools to download it.  Just to use it.


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## Ghostwind (Jun 19, 2003)

As soon as I can get ahold of the revised patch, I intend to have it available on my site as an alternative download site. I'm waiting on Mynex to send it to me.


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## Chaz (Jun 19, 2003)

Sweet! Thanks Ghostwind. Thats the kind of D&D team spirit I like to see. Let us know, and thanks again.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 19, 2003)

Ghostwind came through (soory about the multiple posts -- never know what thread people will check).

The patch is now available for download from the D20 Magazine Rack site.  Go to the E-Tools Review, scroll down to the comments, and follow the link.


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## Chaz (Jun 19, 2003)

Thanks Olgar Shiverstone, Ghostwind, CMP, God, Mom etc. etc.  

Now if I can only locate my original CD so I can reinstall ET and apply the patch haha. Sucks to be me.


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## D'karr (Jun 20, 2003)

Chaz said:
			
		

> *...
> Now if I can only locate my original CD so I can reinstall ET and apply the patch haha. Sucks to be me. *




If you look under any drink you might have put on your furniture you might be able to find it.  I know I used mine as a coaster for a time.


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## Chaz (Jun 20, 2003)

Haha I found it. But thats funny


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