# Why the University of Kentucky wins at Basketball and loses at Football.



## Michael Morris (Feb 28, 2005)

We're on the verge of March Madness and I figured I'd take the time to explain why the University of Kentucky (UK) wins at Basketball and loses at Football.  In depth analysis of both sports turned up the following possibilities.


Football is played outdoors in all weather conditions. Basketball is played indoors under climate controlled conditions.
In Basketball the most points a team can score in a single offensive drive is 3.  In football, that is the least amount of points one can score - and the most the UK Football team usually scores during an entire game.
In Basketball almost any physical contact with the ball carrier can be called a foul.  In Football it's called a tackle provided you knock the chump off his feet.
In Basketball the ball carrier is required to repeatedly drop the ball upon the playing surface. This is called dribbling. In Football the same is called fumbling.
Football has it's origins as a modern game of combat so violent that it was nearly declared illegal in the early 1900's.  Basketball's origin - a women's gymnastic's excersize.

That last quip nearly got me strung up by my toes during the college years


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## Jeff Wilder (Feb 28, 2005)

The actual reason: If talented football players choose a Southeastern Conference school, they pick Tennessee or Alabama.  Every talented basketball player in the SEC wants to play at UK.


Jeff, UK '96 & UK Law '99


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## LeapingShark (Feb 28, 2005)

That sorta reminds of George Carlin's bit from Saturday Night Live, episode #1:



> Baseball & football are the two most popular spectator sports in this country. And as such, it seems they ought to be able to tell us something about ourselves and our values.
> 
> I enjoy comparing baseball and football:
> 
> ...


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## Michael Morris (Feb 28, 2005)

Carlin's skit was my inspiration, so that's not too surprising.


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## drothgery (Feb 28, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> We're on the verge of March Madness and I figured I'd take the time to explain why the University of Kentucky (UK) wins at Basketball and loses at Football.  In depth analysis of both sports turned up the following possibilities.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Football is played outdoors in all weather conditions. Basketball is played indoors under climate controlled conditions.




Okay, so this theory doesn't explain my Orange (who play football indoors in climate-controlled conditions, but are still great at basketball and awful at football)...


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## Ashwyn (Feb 28, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> Carlin's skit was my inspiration, so that's not too surprising.



Nicely done. I'm sure he'd enjoy it.


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## reveal (Feb 28, 2005)

Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> The actual reason: If talented football players choose a Southeastern Conference school, they pick Tennessee or Alabama.




*AHEM* I think you're forgetting the best school in the SEC: Auburn! WAR EAGLE!


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## Crothian (Feb 28, 2005)

drothgery said:
			
		

> Okay, so this theory doesn't explain my Orange (who play football indoors in climate-controlled conditions, but are still great at basketball and awful at football)...




They have to play outisde for away games.....


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## Felix (Feb 28, 2005)

> WAR EAGLE!




Hog weighing at Auburn University:

Put a long plank over a log. Put the pig on one end of the plank. Pile rocks on the other end of the plank until the plank is evenly balanced. Then, guess how much the rocks weigh.



ROLL TIDE!


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> Hog weighing at Auburn University:
> 
> Put a long plank over a log. Put the pig on one end of the plank. Pile rocks on the other end of the plank until the plank is evenly balanced. Then, guess how much the rocks weigh.
> 
> ...




That's funny. BTW, sorry to hear that y'alls library burned down. It's a shame both those books were destroyed. I heard one hadn't even been colored in yet.


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## Krieg (Mar 1, 2005)

Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> The actual reason: If talented football players choose a Southeastern Conference school, they pick Tennessee or Alabama.




AKA: the highest bidder.


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## Felix (Mar 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> That's funny. BTW, sorry to hear that y'alls library burned down. It's a shame both those books were destroyed. I heard one hadn't even been colored in yet.




We were mighty proud of our library. Although not so proud as y'all are of the new motto of your alma mater: "All dirt roads lead to Auburn".


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> We were mighty proud of our library. Although not so proud as y'all are of the new motto of your alma mater: "All dirt roads lead to Auburn".




 

We could probably keep this up for the next few years.

Oh ya, I just remembered. I was having a problem with some Alabama football players coming into my yard and ruining it. But I just put up a goalpost and they won''t come within 50 yards of it.


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## Alzrius (Mar 1, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> We're on the verge of March Madness and I figured I'd take the time to explain why the University of Kentucky (UK) wins at Basketball and loses at Football.  In depth analysis of both sports turned up the following possibilities.




Gah, I hate living in Lexington when it's this time of year. The crazy people in the city (which is most of them) get even worse then usual, and there's nothing more annoying than hearing people whooping and hollering all night over something I couldn't possibly care less about.


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## ph34r (Mar 1, 2005)

Word!


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## Felix (Mar 1, 2005)

> We could probably keep this up for the next few years.



Very likely. 

Your story reminded me, do you know if the court order keeping affectionate Auburn players away from the Auburn petting zoo is still enforced? Because the last time I heard they had to keep at least 200 yards away.


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> Very likely.
> 
> Your story reminded me, do you know if the court order keeping affectionate Auburn players away from the Auburn petting zoo is still enforced? Because the last time I heard they had to keep at least 200 yards away.




Not sure about that.

Oh, were they ever able to fix the class situation at Alabama U? I had heard they couldn't have Drivers Ed class and Sex Ed class on the same day because they only had one mule.


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## Felix (Mar 1, 2005)

> Not sure about that.
> 
> Oh, were they ever able to fix the class situation at Alabama U? I had heard they couldn't have Drivers Ed class and Sex Ed class on the same day because they only had one mule.




LMAO!

Although it's not a laughing matter. Auburn offered to help by lending us their Sex-Ed mule; we declined because unlike the situation in Auburn, Alamama men only like riding female mules.


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> LMAO!
> 
> Although it's not a laughing matter. Auburn offered to help by lending us their Sex-Ed mule; we declined because unlike the situation in Auburn, Alamama men only like riding female mules.




We only did that because we know the only way to get an Alabama female alum in bed with you is to grease the doorframe and throw a Twinkie on the bed.


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## Citizen Mane (Mar 1, 2005)

ph34r said:
			
		

> Word!




That's what I'm talkin' about!  Go Heels!

Nick (UNC MA '04)


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## Felix (Mar 1, 2005)

> We only did that because we know the only way to get an Alabama female alum in bed with you is to grease the doorframe and throw a Twinkie on the bed.




Wheras with Auburn female alums, having been unsatisfied for four years, all you have to do is compliment their shoes.


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> Wheras with Auburn female alums, having been unsatisfied for four years, all you have to do is compliment their shoes.




At least they have shoes... 

(You know we should probably stop before we offend someone )


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## Crothian (Mar 1, 2005)

No, keep going....its very entertaining to us Northerns.


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> No, keep going....its very entertaining to us Northerns.




[drawl] Suh, I believe the term you are referring to is Yankee. [/drawl]


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## Felix (Mar 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> At least they have shoes...




They got out of the house, did they?

(and we probably should stop at that... . OK, I'm done.)



			
				reveal said:
			
		

> [drawl] Suh, I believe the term you are referring to is Yankee. [/drawl]



[drawl]
I do, I say I do believe that gentleman -- the one carryin the bag of the carpet variety ove-yonda -- is havin hissef a laugh at our expense. Tell me friend, shall we convince him it'd be smart to do otherwise?
[/drawl]


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> [drawl]
> I do, I say I do believe that gentleman -- the one carryin the bag of the carpet variety ove-yonda -- is havin hissef a laugh at our expense. Tell me friend, shall we convince him it'd be smart to do otherwise?
> [/drawl]




[drawl]
Suh, I believe your idea is ah fine one. By all means, please go fuhst.
[/drawl]


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## Felix (Mar 1, 2005)

[drawl]
Why thankuh, I do believe ah will.

Suh! "Scuse me, SUH! I heard your laughin ovah yonda, and thought "That's mighty fine laughin." If you're interested in havin such a laugh again, please come on round to mah doah. My two brothas an I will show you our hospitality, as well as our lahge back yard. You could even inspect our fine selection of shovels. Ah just hope you won't be expected anywhere aftah, as you might be busy for a while with that laughin.

Your turn, suh.
[/drawl]


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

[drawl]
Suh, I think y'all have beautifully eloquated my sentaments exactly. I salute y'all on y'alls verbosity.
[/drawl]


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## Crothian (Mar 1, 2005)

My work here is done now that I have brought the Auburn and bama folk togther....


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## Krieg (Mar 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> [drawl] Suh, I believe the term you are referring to is Yankee. [/drawl]




Yankees, Carpetbaggers, winners...it's all the same.


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## Stone Angel (Mar 2, 2005)

There is the four point play if your are fouled on the three point shot and make it plus the free-throw.


The Seraph of Earth and Stone


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## Citizen Mane (Mar 2, 2005)

Krieg said:
			
		

> Yankees, Carpetbaggers, winners...it's all the same.



 Reminded me of a bumper sticker I saw in Chapel Hill last summer: "Yankees 1, Rebels 0.  Halftime."


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## Jeff Wilder (Mar 2, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Reminded me of a bumper sticker I saw in Chapel Hill last summer: "Yankees 1, Rebels 0.  Halftime."



That's a hockey score, and no self-respecting "South-Will-Rise-Againer" is a hockey fan.  It should be "Yankees 6, Rebels 0.  Halftime."  It's pretty funny, really.

NOTE: I'm from Kentucky, but Kentucky isn't really the South, especially the two biggest cities, which is where I lived all my life.  So I'm just observing, not making a personal statement.


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## Michael Morris (Mar 2, 2005)

I've always heard it said that Louisville is the northernmost southern city, and Lexington is the southernmost northern city - or something like that.


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## Jeff Wilder (Mar 2, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> I've always heard it said that Louisville is the northernmost southern city, and Lexington is the southernmost northern city - or something like that.



I actually always found Lexington to be, if anything, more southern than Louisville.  It's (literally) more pastoral, given the surrounding horse farms.  It's more laid back, and much less of a "real" city than Louisville ... if it weren't for UK, Lexington wouldn't be much more than a mid-sized town.

I still maintain that neither of them is truly southern, though.  Even the rural parts of Kentucky have more in common with, for example, rural Indiana or Appalachian Pennsylvania than they do with Tennessee and other truly southern states.  Parts of Kentucky are seriously redneck, but redneck and southern aren't synonyms.  They just overlap quite a bit.


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## drothgery (Mar 2, 2005)

Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> That's a hockey score, and no self-respecting "South-Will-Rise-Againer" is a hockey fan.




NHL teams in Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Tampa, Dallas, and Miami suggest otherwise...


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## Jeff Wilder (Mar 2, 2005)

drothgery said:
			
		

> NHL teams in Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Tampa, Dallas, and Miami suggest otherwise...



Actually, they don't.  There's a difference between a hockey fan who happens to live in the South and, as I said, a South-Againer.


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## reveal (Mar 2, 2005)

Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> Actually, they don't.  There's a difference between a hockey fan who happens to live in the South and, as I said, a South-Againer.




If it don't involve a car, number 3 and turnin' left, it ain't a sport!


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## wingsandsword (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm a lifelong Kentuckian, born in Louisville and raised in Lexington, heck I'm even posting this from on-campus at UK, so I can certainly say this:

Lexington is the farthest north Southern city, and Louisville is the farthest south Northern City.  Kentucky is part of the south, it's a unique part of the south that's slightly intermixed with a few elements of the midwest and north, but Kentuckians still consider themselves Southerners.

University of Kentucky Basketball is the unofficial state religion (right behind Southern Baptist), and the sheer fact that we haven't won a NCAA Basketball championship in 7 years is making people very irate.  Never mind that we win the SEC title virtually every year, never mind we've got a program that most schools would kill for; a true sports dynasty.  There are serious grumbles of discontent that we haven't won it all in almost a decade!

And yes, no true Southerner is a hockey fan, the NHL franchises in the south are to pacify the northerners who live here.  Anyway, the NHL is mostly a technicality now, who knows if they'll ever play again?


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## Krieg (Mar 2, 2005)

wingsandsword said:
			
		

> University of Kentucky Basketball is the unofficial state religion (right behind Southern Baptist), and the sheer fact that we haven't won a NCAA Basketball championship in 7 years is making people very irate.  Never mind that we win the SEC title virtually every year, never mind we've got a program that most schools would kill for; a true sports dynasty.  There are serious grumbles of discontent that we haven't won it all in almost a decade!




Doncha just love Rick Pitino?


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## drothgery (Mar 2, 2005)

wingsandsword said:
			
		

> University of Kentucky Basketball is the unofficial state religion (right behind Southern Baptist), and the sheer fact that we haven't won a NCAA Basketball championship in 7 years is making people very irate.




obOrangeFan -- And it would've been longer if not for tick-tacky foul calls on Wallace (the only player on the 1996 Orange that would go on to the NBA; when he fouled out with the Orange down by 5, the game was over). Between that and Keith *@!#ing Smart, it's a wonder that Boeheim managed to avoid losing it at some point along the 2003 run, though having Melo, Hak, and GMac helped.


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## Jeff Wilder (Mar 2, 2005)

wingsandsword said:
			
		

> I'm a lifelong Kentuckian, born in Louisville and raised in Lexington



Same here, except for the "lifelong" part.  I bailed from that Godforsaken state as soon as I thought I could get a job in San Francisco.



> Lexington is the farthest north Southern city, and Louisville is the farthest south Northern City.  Kentucky is part of the south, it's a unique part of the south that's slightly intermixed with a few elements of the midwest and north, but Kentuckians still consider themselves Southerners.



I disagree.  I never knew _any_ Kentuckians who considered themselves Southerners.  The closest they ever came was "Not Hoosiers, That's For Damned Sure."



> University of Kentucky Basketball is the unofficial state religion



This I agree with, except to take issue with the "unofficial."  I miss literally three things about Kentucky: the basketball, thoroughbred racing, and thunderstorms.  Ironically, Californians _think_ they have all three.  It's kinda cute, in a sad way.


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## Jeff Wilder (Mar 2, 2005)

drothgery said:
			
		

> obOrangeFan -- And it would've been longer if not for tick-tacky foul calls on Wallace (the only player on the 1996 Orange that would go on to the NBA; when he fouled out with the Orange down by 5, the game was over).



Just because your w00fing is retroactive doesn't mean the Basketball Gods aren't listening ...

If I recall correctly, Wallace fouled out with only a minute or two remaining, after having a helluva game.  At that point, Syracuse was fouling _deliberately_, hoping for UK to miss free throws.  I won't even mention the fact that UK was called for more fouls than Syracuse.  So, as excuses go, that one's pretty lame.

And, seriously, you don't even need an excuse; the real championship game that year was the semifinal between UK and UMass.  Every other team in the field that year went into it an Also-Ran.  The fact that Syracuse was even anywhere close in the finals was due to the fact that the UK players were already carrying trophies in their shorts.  (IYKWIM,AITYD.)  UK practically had a pro roster that year ... Syracuse never had a chance in hell.

Oh, and BTW, it wouldn't have been "longer," even if the Orangemen had pulled a Helen Kelleresque miracle in '96.  The most recent championship UK has is from '98.  Seven years ago, as the poster said.


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## xmanii (Mar 3, 2005)

Krieg said:
			
		

> Doncha just love Rick Pitino?




oOo, low blow


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## drothgery (Mar 3, 2005)

Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> If I recall correctly, Wallace fouled out with only a minute or two remaining, after having a helluva game.  At that point, Syracuse was fouling _deliberately_, hoping for UK to miss free throws.




I thought it was three or four minutes, but SU certianly wasn't intentionally fouling at that point; they were only down by five. With their best player by far out of the game, it didn't stay close much longer, and then the intentional fouling started.



			
				Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> I won't even mention the fact that UK was called for more fouls than Syracuse.




SU had one player they couldn't afford to lose; UK did not.



			
				Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> And, seriously, you don't even need an excuse; the real championship game that year was the semifinal between UK and UMass.  Every other team in the field that year went into it an Also-Ran.  The fact that Syracuse was even anywhere close in the finals was due to the fact that the UK players were already carrying trophies in their shorts.  (IYKWIM,AITYD.)  UK practically had a pro roster that year ... Syracuse never had a chance in hell.




In a best of 7 series, I'd agree with you. The '96 Orange had far less talent than that Kentucky team. But the NCAA plays a single elimination tournament; after the second round, anybody can beat anyone. The favorites usually win, but it's nothing you can count on. It's very, very rare that two #1 seeds play for the title, after all.

Heck, the '03 Orange were certainly underdogs against Kansas (admittedly this was mostly because of inexperience), and the only Syracuse team that went into the title game as a clear favorite (the 1987 team) lost.


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## Jeff Wilder (Mar 3, 2005)

drothgery said:
			
		

> I thought it was three or four minutes, but SU certianly wasn't intentionally fouling at that point;



Well, it's been a while, so I'm not positive, but I'd be willing to bet Wallace played 38 or 39 minutes of the game.



> SU had one player they couldn't afford to lose; UK did not.



Granted, but "lack of depth" is a different excuse for the loss than "ticky-tack fouls being called."  (I'll even grant "lack of depth" as one of the _reasons_ for the loss; as I said before, there's no shame in losing to that '96 UK team.) 

And, honestly, if Syracuse was truly that dependent upon one player for offense -- and he _did_ have a spectacular night -- he should have been instructed to lay off on defense, given that he was playing with four fouls.  (Maybe they forgot he only had one left ... that wasn't one of the years the B-East was experimenting with a Six-Foul Rule, was it? 



> In a best of 7 series, I'd agree with you. The '96 Orange had far less talent than that Kentucky team. But the NCAA plays a single elimination tournament; after the second round, anybody can beat anyone.



In the vast majority of NCAA tournament years, I'd agree with _you_.  But '96 was different.  UK had five players that went on to at least moderately successful pro careers ... a couple of them have been stars or franchise players.  UMass had a solid squad led by the best player, by far, in the entire nation: Marcus Camby.  I don't know if you really remember that year, but there was a huge uproar because UK and UMass had been scheduled -- yes, "scheduled" -- to meet in the semifinals instead of the finals.  It was considered bad placement by the Selection Committee.

'96 was different.  UK and UMass were utterly dominant that year; I didn't see a single national sportscaster (i.e., non-homer) pick a team other than those two to win it all.  That doesn't happen anymore, and with the exodus of the highest quality players early to the pros, it's unlikely to ever happen again.  A lot of people said the pressure of the '96 season is what drove Pitino away from UK ... not only were UK fans expecting a championship -- and certain UK fans demand an annual championship -- but so was everyone else in the country.  

BTW, I'm not really sure what the other poster's comment on Pitino is supposed to mean, but I personally think Tubby Smith is a better college coach.  Pitino is a great motivator, and a great recruiter, but he is extraordinarily weak in "last two minutes" situations.  For an exercise, compare Pitino's record in games decided in the last two minutes with Tubby's.  It's not even close.  Tubby finds a way to win or to avoid losing ... Pitino instead counted on the buffer of an early blowout score, pretty much disdaining endgame strategy.  With the teams he was able to assemble, it often worked, of course.


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