# Help test something



## Morrus

A new addition to the site - CARD WARS!

OK, it seriously needs a better name (ideas welcome) - that aside, feel free to give it a try.  I've set a basic starter deck at 0gp, so you can grab yourself some low level cards to use.  

You can play against one of the computer players (I'd advise Bored Guardsman, as Master Gamesmith will kick your ass and take your cards!  You can also play against each other.

There's also a tournament on there for 8 players.  I've set up a prize of 30gp for the winner of the tournament which you can spend on more cards or in the Market.  I won't enter the tournament myself because I gave myself a killer card deck to to test the game.


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## Pbartender

Morrus said:


> OK, it seriously needs a better name (ideas welcome) - that aside, feel free to give it a try.  I've set a basic starter deck at 0gp, so you can grab yourself some low level cards to use.




I can't even buy the 0 GP starter deck, as I seem to have -1 GP...


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## Morrus

I just donated you 1 gp, so you should have 0gp now.


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## TarionzCousin

I'm at -3 gp. Did that zero gp vagrant cost me this much? Ooooh, I'll get him!


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## Morrus

TarionzCousin said:


> I'm at -3 gp. Did that zero gp vagrant cost me this much? Ooooh, I'll get him!




I fixed the setting that got people to negative gp, and I'll set you to zero.


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## TarionzCousin

Morrus said:


> I fixed the setting that got people to negative gp, and I'll set you to zero.



Thanks!

Oh, wait. Did I say I was at "-3 gp"? I meant I was at "-50,000 gp."


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## Morrus

TarionzCousin said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Oh, wait. Did I say I was at "-3 gp"? I meant I was at "-50,000 gp."




It does show in your propfile, y'know! 

Anyway, someone think of a better name than "Card Wars"!


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## Scott DeWar

could you fix my -4000 gp, please?


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## El Mahdi

ENWorld the Gathering?

_*just without immortal Highlanders*_


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## Scott DeWar

castle gygax - the siege


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## jonesy

I have -2 gold.


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## El Mahdi

Seriously though, how about _Elementum Ludis..._? Consistent with the elemental/alchemical/fantasy theme of the cards...

Or _Elementum Bellum_ for Elemental War.

Or _Charta Bellum_ for Card Wars.


...and I have negative Gold also (-2).


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## Deset Gled

Two notes after my first game:

Turn the music off.

I can barely see the color difference between cards that have been flipped.  Please change them to something easier for the color impaired like myself.


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## Scott DeWar

Scott DeWar said:


> could you fix my -4000 gp, please?




(dang! he didn't fall for the extra 0's!!)

Thanks Morrus!


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## jonesy

Thanks, Morrus.



Scott DeWar said:


> (dang! he didn't fall for the extra 0's!!)







> ...the aim is to turn your opponent cards to your colour...



Colour Wars? Prismatic Forces? Colour Bleed?


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## jonesy

I think I might have found a bug. I somehow managed to start out by placing two cards at the beginning, and now the game is stuck on my last turn, because I do not have a card left to place on the table.


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## Morrus

Deset Gled said:


> Two notes after my first game:
> 
> Turn the music off.




There's a control for that.



> I can barely see the color difference between cards that have been flipped. Please change them to something easier for the color impaired like myself.




I didn't write the software, I just installed it.  I can't do anything about the colours, I'm afraid.  Sorry.


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## Morrus

jonesy said:


> Prismatic Forces?




This name is winning so far!


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## jonesy

jonesy said:


> I think I might have found a bug. I somehow managed to start out by placing two cards at the beginning, and now the game is stuck on my last turn, because I do not have a card left to place on the table.



Actually, never mind. I went back to the battle page from my history, and the match continued normally to the end. I guess it was just lagging for some reason.

Edit: and man, you weren't kidding about the Master. I basically lost on round 1.


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## Scott DeWar

I won my first match!
but now i have to get ready for work .. .. .. ..


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## Morrus

jonesy said:


> Edit: and man, you weren't kidding about the Master. I basically lost on round 1.




Ooh, I'll have to watch that one!

Over time I can add a bunch of different opponents with different skill levels and deck options.  I might give some unique cards that you can only obtain by defeating them (not available for purchase normally).


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## jonesy

Morrus said:


> Ooh, I'll have to watch that one!



I was trying to be clever with my weakest card to lure him into a trap, but he wouldn't have any of it.


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## Morrus

Just watched it.  Yeah, he kicked your ass.

The Bored Guardsman has all Level 1 cards, whereas the Gamesmith has a much bigger deck, including a few high level cards (but he always plays Random selection, so he might not necessarily have any of his high level cards in any given match).

I just added a Wandering Trickster who is a very defensive player with Level 1-3 cards.  If you beat him, you might get some good cards out of it.


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## Morrus

Anyone gonna sign up for this tournament, BTW?  Needs 8 players before it can start, and the winner gets 30gp to spend - either on more cards, or in the market on gear.


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## jonesy

Morrus said:


> Wandering Trickster who is a very defensive player with Level 1-3 cards.  If you beat him, you might get some good cards out of it.



Got a Berserker card. What does A mean on the card (as a number)? Is that like an Ace?

Edit: yeah, I know. Read the rules, read the rules. 



Morrus said:


> Anyone gonna sign up for this tournament, BTW?  Needs 8 players before it can start, and the winner gets 30gp to spend - either on more cards, or in the market on gear.



Yeah, I could.


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## jonesy

I just played a weird match against Wandering Trickster. Similar strenght cards, and we were both refusing to rise to the bait, so we got like 4 ties before I won, and both lost cards to the other (I won that too).


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## jonesy

> Once you have joined the tournament you will not be able to enter any matches or other tournaments until you have left the tournament by victory or losing.



Ok. That sucks. Any way to set it so that one could play other matches while the tourney is in session?

Edit: Hmm, it's still letting me play matches actually, even though it also says I've joined the tournament?


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## Thanee

Tragic: the Garnering? 

Bye
Thanee


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## Morrus

jonesy said:


> Ok. That sucks. Any way to set it so that one could play other matches while the tourney is in session?
> 
> Edit: Hmm, it's still letting me play matches actually, even though it also says I've joined the tournament?




I'm not sure how it works, but my guess is that the tourney is not in session until it begins.


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## Theo R Cwithin

If you still need testers, I'd like to check it out... but I'm at -2 gp and can't buy a deck.
Can I get my debt forgiven, for this noble cause?


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## jonesy

[MENTION=54988]Dragonwriter[/MENTION] and I just had a match that ended in a draw. Well played, sir.

Here's a question: any way to delete cards from your deck? So I could get rid of the weak ones?


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## Morrus

No, I don't think so.

Not all games have to be random, of course (although admittedly the ones I set up for the NPCs are). But you can choose games which allow you to choose which cards you start with rather than having them selected randomly.


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## Morrus

the_orc_within said:


> If you still need testers, I'd like to check it out... but I'm at -2 gp and can't buy a deck.
> Can I get my debt forgiven, for this noble cause?




Sure.


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## jonesy

Regarding the tournament: it seems to have tied up the cards I chose for it. I can only use the rest when playing other games. Maybe it doesn't prevent you playing while part of a tourney, you just can't use the cards you chose for it?


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## Dragonwriter

jonesy said:


> Dragonwriter and I just had a match that ended in a draw. Well played, sir.




Thank you and you as well. I actually thought you had me towards the end (had you put the Treant - Oldraxx, I think - in the center, the match would've been yours).

Of course, it would've been different had I not been dealt my worst cards!


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## jonesy

Dragonwriter said:


> Of course, it would've been different had I not been dealt my worst cards!



Yeah, that's what got me to ask about deleting the poor ones. =)


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## Scott DeWar

Thanee said:


> Tragic: the Garnering?
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




I really hate only being able to give 10 rep points per day.Thanee, i owe you one for this! (and weem, and Danny Alkatraz, and dragonwriter and Jonesey .. .. .. ..)


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## jonesy

Damn, Morrus. Nice cards.


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## Morrus

jonesy said:


> Damn, Morrus. Nice cards.




Sorry!

I figured I'd give you a chance to win a decent card or two off me.  Did you get anything good (I set the victory condition so you get all cards flipped to your side at the end, but I can't remember if any of mine were still flipped at that point).


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## jonesy

Morrus said:


> Did you get anything good (I set the victory condition so you get all cards flipped to your side at the end, but I can't remember if any of mine were still flipped at that point).



Nope. Didn't get a thing. But didn't lose anything valuable either.


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## Theo R Cwithin

Hey, thanks for the gp, Morrus.


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## jonesy

Ok. There is one way to get rid of bad cards. Play against a computer opponent with rules where flipped cards are lost, and lose in a way where only your bad cards get flipped.


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## Morrus

jonesy said:


> Ok. There is one way to get rid of bad cards. Play against a computer opponent with rules where flipped cards are lost, and lose in a way where only your bad cards get flipped.




Rather than throwing them away, perhaps trading them might be a more profitable venture?


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## jonesy

Morrus said:


> Rather than throwing them away, perhaps trading them might be a more profitable venture?



How do you trade away bad cards?


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## Morrus

jonesy said:


> How do you trade away bad cards?




They won't always be free, so save 'em and at some point you can sell 'em for gp for less than the system charges a new player.


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## Scott DeWar

So all of the play testing we do now will be benificial in the future?


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## GandalfMithrandir

I also would like to beg for mercy at your feet to forgive my 1 gp debt

pleeease! It's for a good cause!


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## Theo R Cwithin

A couple problems I've encountered:

1) Typo in the rules: the "Sudden Death" rule is labeled "Same Wall"

2) When my opponent (bored guardsman) flips my Lila card, the Lila card  disappears (except the name), then the game hangs when I make my move.  This has happened four times, only with Lila, and only when my opponent flips it.

[edit] I just noticed the hung games collect in the list of current games.  So there are 4 of my games listed on the Arena page.  Is there a way to clear those?  And is there a "correct" way to shut down a hung game?


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## Rune

I would like to try this game, as well, but, alas, I also am at -2 gp.  Would it be possible to have this debt forgiven?


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## jonesy

the_orc_within said:


> [edit] I just noticed the hung games collect in the list of current games.  So there are 4 of my games listed on the Arena page.  Is there a way to clear those?  And is there a "correct" way to shut down a hung game?



I've been able to pick them up from my browser history, and finish playing them. If you can't do that, they all seem to have the same url with just the match number altered, so you might be able to get back to them by going through the numbers.

But the best way to deal with hanged games is just to refresh the window when the game hangs. The music goes away (at least it does for me) but the game continues.


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## Ultimatecalibur

Can I get that negative gold reset so I can join in?


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## jonesy

After several ties I finally beat Master Gamesmith. Unfortunately I won because he didn't have any good cards, which means I didn't get any good cards.


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## A flannel shirt

I have -1 GP.


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## Morrus

OK, I've found 159 people with negative gp.  I'm running a query to set all those people to zero.


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## lostingeneral

My first match, I got to the point of a draw, where the game quickly flashed the message "UNENTSCHIEDEN!" (draw?) and forced me to play again. Only this time, I couldn't flip any cards, and my opponent couldn't flip any of mine, and they just flipped at random. Also, the left space would not accept cards as this was declared an illegal move, so I had to quit the game when the rest of the board was filled up.

Otherwise though, it's fun. I always liked Triple Triad, though I've never been very good at it.


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## Arkhandus

Card Conquest?


......and at least now I appear to have 0 gp instead of -1.....

Anyway, I'll try it sometime this week I guess.  Been a long time since I played Cardmaster Conflict, anyway, the Flash game based on the Adventurers! webcomic and others.


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## TarionzCousin

I signed up for the tournament. So far it is just me and jonesy.


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## Theo R Cwithin

@jonesy  - Yes, refresh worked, thanks.  When I was trying earlier I would leave and return to the page; that wasn't enough.  I had to refresh.

[edit]How I'm cleaning up my hung games:  In the Battle Arena, you can mouse over the "Watch" link to get the id number for a particular game.  Hunt that id number down in browser history, goto that page, and the game will resume.


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## Deset Gled

Can I humbly request a rules update?  The Drunken Cardsharp has now played two cards against me that have no numbers (one had a leprechaun, the other had a circle thing with a rune thing in the middle).  I have no idea what these cards are or what they do, but I seem to be losing my cards to them.

Update: Wandering Trickster just played a card that looked like circles set up like a star of David.  Somehow, this resulted in a card being put into play outside of the normal nine positions.  WTF?  Whatever happened, I lost a Biggo card to it.


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## Cerebral Paladin

The combo rule doesn't seem to be working properly (or I don't understand it).  I've been playing against the Wandering Trickster--it says that the combo rule is in play.  But when I get what should, I think, trigger combos, they don't.


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## jonesy

HOW TO UNHANG GAMES YOU'VE LEFT:

In the Battle Arena it shows all of the games that are running. When you hover your mouse over the Watch link (or if you just go and watch it and check the address) it shows a number at the end of that link, like this:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=live&id=426

To get back to your game, copy your number to this version of the link:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=battle&id=426



HOW TO UNHANG GAMES IN PROGRESS, or fix games that are somehow showing wrong information (cards in the wrong position etc., it happens):

Refresh.


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## Morrus

Deset Gled said:


> Can I humbly request a rules update? The Drunken Cardsharp has now played two cards against me that have no numbers (one had a leprechaun, the other had a circle thing with a rune thing in the middle). I have no idea what these cards are or what they do, but I seem to be losing my cards to them.




They're magic item cards.  I'm not 100% clear what they do either; I tink they're just very powerful cards, but I'll try to find a clarification.



> Update: Wandering Trickster just played a card that looked like circles set up like a star of David. Somehow, this resulted in a card being put into play outside of the normal nine positions. WTF? Whatever happened, I lost a Biggo card to it.




How do you mean outside the normal nine positions?


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## Morrus

Cerebral Paladin said:


> The combo rule doesn't seem to be working properly (or I don't understand it). I've been playing against the Wandering Trickster--it says that the combo rule is in play. But when I get what should, I think, trigger combos, they don't.




It only applies when invoking Same, Same Wall or Plus.  I'll update the rules to reflect that.


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## jonesy

Morrus said:


> How do you mean outside the normal nine positions?



I've seen cards placed against the edge of the playing field outside of it, but so far I'm convinced it's just a visual bug that a good refresh should fix. It's hard to test when it happens so rarely.


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## jonesy

As an aside, what's the point of the Activity Level counter in the Achievements tab in my profile, and why does losing in card games bring it down? Losing is not an activity? 


Edit:

We still need three more people to join in to test the tournament system.


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## jonesy

The Drunken Cardsharp is really annoying. I get good cards from him when I lose, and lose good cards when I win. Maybe I should just try losing to him all the time. 

Edit: Check this out! I managed a six-card combo:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=448
And I only used basic level 1 cards!


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## Deset Gled

Morrus said:


> They're magic item cards.  I'm not 100% clear what they do either; I tink they're just very powerful cards, but I'll try to find a clarification.




Any time you could get the info would be great.  It's not a big deal right now, but if I had paid for the cards and then lost them to the computer playing a magic "I win" card, I would have been annoyed.




> How do you mean outside the normal nine positions?




See attached.

Later, the match froze and I was forced to reload it.  When that happened, the card moved back to inside, but the Biggo that was mine disappeared (the one that was the computers remained his, I think showing the card twice was a glitch).  The sad thing is that I would have been able to save the Biggo if I had known it was turned.


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## Morrus

Found it.  They're rare cards with scores of 10 on each side.  

Since they're so powerful, I've made it so that the NPCs have them much less often (especially the weaker NPCs).


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## UnknownAtThisTime

Gave it a try and it was more fun than this I anticipated.

If I buy more gold, is it going to be deducted again if there are price increases?


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## Morrus

No - if you ever give me money for something, I'm not going to take it away from you.


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## Morrus

BTW, there's now a free starter pack in the Monsters card set.


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## Morrus

We need just one more person to sign up for the tournament and a crack at the 30gp prize!  C'mon, someone sign up!


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## Rune

I've joined the tournament, but now, for my first match (against [MENTION=7808]Deset Gled[/MENTION]) I get this message:



> Your opponent has not selected their cards for the tournament match. This page will periodically refresh automatically until they have.
> If your opponent does not respond after a set time, they will be disqualified and you will win by default.




What kind of time limit are we talking about here?  I don't want my opponent disqualified because they don't know the tournament has begun.


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## Morrus

Rune said:


> I've joined the tournament, but now, for my first match (against @Deset Gled ) I get this message:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of time limit are we talking about here? I don't want my opponent disqualified because they don't know the tournament has begun.




I don't recall what I set the timeout at.  I hope I set it at 24 hours, since that's the sort of timeout I think is reasonable.  But, hey, if it all times out after 1 hour because I unthinkingly set it too low, I'll just have to start a new tournament.


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## Deset Gled

Rune said:


> I've joined the tournament, but now, for my first match (against [MENTION=7808]Deset Gled[/MENTION]) I get this message:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of time limit are we talking about here?  I don't want my opponent disqualified because they don't know the tournament has begun.




Funny, when I'm trying to click the "View Details" button to start the match, I get an error "The battle you've requested was not found."  Maybe the time out really is one hour (it's been about 1:15 since the message was sent)?

Note: That's the message I get when following the link in the notification I got.  When I got to Prismatic Wars, there's a battle between you and me under "Active Battles", but when I click on that I get "This is not a tournament match."

Update: I accidentally had a match open with an NPC.  When I finished that match, it let me into the tournament.


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## Rune

Well, it worked out.  And, good game, Deset Gled.


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## Dog Moon

Deset Gled said:


> See attached.




I'm glad you posted this because after I bought my starter pack I thought the entire game was gonna be female characters.  Seriously though, I got six different types of cards and they're all girls.


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## Dog Moon

Dog Moon said:


> I'm glad you posted this because after I bought my starter pack I thought the entire game was gonna be female characters.  Seriously though, I got six different types of cards and they're all girls.




Okay, getting the monsters and villian packs changed that.  Will have to try this out tonight when I get home.   Now back to work...


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## jonesy

Psst, [MENTION=31304]TarionzCousin[/MENTION] I've made my first move.


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## Morrus

Dog Moon said:


> I'm glad you posted this because after I bought my starter pack I thought the entire game was gonna be female characters. Seriously though, I got six different types of cards and they're all girls.




Check out the database link for a view of the full range. 

Incidentally, if anyone with too much time on their hands wants to design a deck, I'd be happy to include it.  Needs about 100 cards per full set.


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## jonesy

TC totally beat me. I got blocked by a wall of Bluka. Good luck in the tournament, man!


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## TarionzCousin

Cerebral Paladin said:


> The combo rule doesn't seem to be working properly (or I don't understand it).  I've been playing against the Wandering Trickster--it says that the combo rule is in play.  But when I get what should, I think, trigger combos, they don't.



I got beat by a combo that seems wrong to me. His "3" flipped my "6" which flipped another of my cards. As I had tied the NPC three times in a row, this was a bit disappointing. I also lost my one elemental and one dragon. Bummer.

If you're bored, you can see it here. Screenprint of the Kombo below. He placed the gnome in the lower left corner to flip my middle gnome and center card.

Am I missing something?










jonesy said:


> TC totally beat me. I got blocked by a wall of Bluka. Good luck in the tournament, man!



[-]Thanks, but I was notified that the tournament is over.[/-] As for our match, it seems like the luck of the 5 cards determined the outcome more than anything else.

_Edit:_ Erm, apparently the tournament isn't over.


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## TarionzCousin

This game is quite fun and I hope you keep it, Morrus.

However, I just got a Private Message from Hecate saying she wants to have my baby. Should I go to meet her at the abandoned ruins at Midnight?


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## jonesy

TarionzCousin said:


> I got beat by a combo that seems wrong to me. His "3" flipped my "6" which flipped another of my cards.



Not wrong.

It's the Plus rule. Both in that instance equal 9 (7+2 upwards, 6+3 to the right).


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## Dog Moon

Morrus said:


> Check out the database link for a view of the full range.
> 
> Incidentally, if anyone with too much time on their hands wants to design a deck, I'd be happy to include it.  Needs about 100 cards per full set.




Ah, neat.  Didn't see that before.  Though didn't have TOO much time to look either.  I like a lot of the art, though I recognize some of it from other places.


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## dogoftheunderworld

Morrus said:


> Found it.  They're rare cards with scores of 10 on each side.
> 
> Since they're so powerful, I've made it so that the NPCs have them much less often (especially the weaker NPCs).




Morrus,  Looks like the Wandering Trickster can have Magic cards.  With the rules for that NPC battle set, it is impossible to defeat those cards (no combos, plus, etc. ).  And with vistory set to Direct, you can't acquire those cards either (well, unless you beaten higher levels, bought cards, etc).

Just an observation.

thanks for the cool game!


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## Morrus

dogoftheunderworld said:


> Morrus, Looks like the Wandering Trickster can have Magic cards. With the rules for that NPC battle set, it is impossible to defeat those cards (no combos, plus, etc. ). And with vistory set to Direct, you can't acquire those cards either (well, unless you beaten higher levels, bought cards, etc).




These things are all easily tweakable. I'll change a few settings. 

I've changed victory to "One" and added "Plus" into his settings. He only has one magic item card in his deck of about 30 cards, and it's set on random, so it should only show up one in every 6 games.

I don't want everyone easily acquiring the most powerful cards in the game within the first day or so of playing - kinda defeats the point of the randomized collectible card model!  The idea is that when you finally get a magic item card, you treasure it.


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## TarionzCousin

After the first match, the elemental symbols are invisible. Of course, the computer can "see" them.


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## jonesy

TarionzCousin said:


> After the first match, the elemental symbols are invisible. Of course, the computer can "see" them.



As with other graphical glitches refresh fixes that.


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## jonesy

Could you make a mid-level opponent with these:

Combo yes
Same yes
Same Wall no
Plus yes
Random no
Sudden Death yes
Elemental yes
Victory condition: Difference


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## Morrus

jonesy said:


> Could you make a mid-level opponent with these:
> 
> Combo yes
> Same yes
> Same Wall no
> Plus yes
> Random no
> Sudden Death yes
> Elemental yes
> Victory condition: Difference




Could you give me your reasoning for doing so?

I'm wary of letting good cards slip through the net. It should take a good while before you're regularly playing with level 5 cards, for example.


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## jonesy

Well, when I said mid-level I meant difficulty. Is that determined solely on what cards the opponent has?

Edit: wow, Hades is badass. For a second there I thought I might have a chance with my awesome level 1 deck. 
http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=839
He turned my 6-4 into a 3-7 with one card.


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## Morrus

Pretty much, yeah.  There are a few higher settings I've used for the really mean opponents, but the lower ones are mainly defined by their decks and the rules in place.


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## Theo R Cwithin

Is there a way to figure out the elemental association for a particular card?  Or is that just trial-and-error?

Also, when I mouse over the square on the board, I see "Fire Deck", regardless of the actual element symbol on that square.  What does that mean?


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## Morrus

the_orc_within said:


> Is there a way to figure out the elemental association for a particular card? Or is that just trial-and-error?




Not all cards have an elemental association. If it does, it will have an elemental symbol clearly in the top right of the card. I've attached an example below.



> Also, when I mouse over the square on the board, I see "Fire Deck", regardless of the actual element symbol on that square. What does that mean?




That's just the name of the arena; nothing important.


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## jonesy

The tournament system appears to have quite a scheduling problem. 4 matches out of 7 already disqualified, with the final to be played.


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## Morrus

jonesy said:


> The tournament system appears to have quite a scheduling problem. 4 matches out of 7 already disqualified, with the final to be played.




Yeah, I clearly set the timeout too low.  Shoulda made it 24 hours.

I'll know better for the next one!  Guess someone's just gonna get lucky and win 30gp by default this time!


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## Morrus

Hah!  [MENTION=94582]UnknownAtThisTime[/MENTION] is doing pretty well out of one-off cards I've offered for stupidly low prices in the Trade Center.  He's snagged a Treant and Dragon for almost nothing today!


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## Morrus

Another tournament set up.  This one has a larger prize and _definitely_ has a 24-hour timeout.

Magic Forest, 8 players, 50gp prize, Combo, Same, Same Wall, Plus, Elemental.  Deck size 20 cards.


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## UnknownAtThisTime

Too bad my understanding of the game lags my understanding of the marketplace!


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## Theo R Cwithin

Morrus said:


> Not all cards have an elemental association. If it does, it will have an elemental symbol clearly in the top right of the card. I've attached an example below.
> 
> That's just the name of the arena; nothing important.



Got it.  Thanks for the info.


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## jonesy

Maybe it's just me, but I'm detecting a certain annoying pattern here.

I have a couple of level 4-5 cards, and a small bunch of each of the level 2-3 cards.

Playing against Bored Guardsman and Wandering Trickster doesn't really seem to alter this spread.

Playing against Drunken Cardsharp feels like I have more to lose than to gain, because he can whip out one of those level 10 specials that can't be defeated which then ends up blocking the field, and apparently gives bonuses to the rest of his moves, or something like that (I have no idea what's going on there, but sometimes it's like having one of those leprechaun cards on the table is an instant loss). I can only win engagements against him by playing for cards. In other words, aim not to win, but to flip the best cards I can, so that I'll lose most of mine, and maybe gain one or two of his. And that feels really random, and fatalistic (if that's a word I can use for a card game).

Edit: and when I say here 'win engagements' I mean: have better cards after winning, instead of having worse cards after winning.

Playing against anyone above that feels like a steep uphill battle when most of the cards they field are higher level than me.

In other words, there doesn't seem to be a mid-level opponent there. It's either low level, random blasts of undefeatable cards, or too high level.


(Also, I really hate not being able to pick my initial hand in the higher level matches. I wish there was a way to allow that without it breaking the card collection system.)

I've only played 146 matches (which I'd argue is really low for the game), so I don't yet know how accurate this is.


----------



## jonesy

Want to know what I'd really like? The same game with a bigger playing field. 

I don't really know if that's doable. Probably not.


----------



## Morrus

jonesy said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I'm detecting a certain annoying pattern here.
> 
> I have a couple of level 4-5 cards, and a small bunch of each of the level 2-3 cards.
> 
> Playing against Bored Guardsman and Wandering Trickster doesn't really seem to alter this spread.
> 
> Playing against Drunken Cardsharp feels like I have more to lose than to gain, because he can whip out one of those level 10 specials that can't be defeated which then ends up blocking the field, and apparently gives bonuses to the rest of his moves, or something like that (I have no idea what's going on there, but sometimes it's like having one of those leprechaun cards on the table is an instant loss). I can only win engagements against him by playing for cards. In other words, aim not to win, but to flip the best cards I can, so that I'll lose most of mine, and maybe gain one or two of his. And that feels really random, and fatalistic (if that's a word I can use for a card game).
> 
> Edit: and when I say here 'win engagements' I mean: have better cards after winning, instead of having worse cards after winning.
> 
> Playing against anyone above that feels like a steep uphill battle when most of the cards they field are higher level than me.
> 
> In other words, there doesn't seem to be a mid-level opponent there. It's either low level, random blasts of undefeatable cards, or too high level.
> 
> 
> (Also, I really hate not being able to pick my initial hand in the higher level matches. I wish there was a way to allow that without it breaking the card collection system.)
> 
> I've only played 146 matches (which I'd argue is really low for the game), so I don't yet know how accurate this is.




Well, bear in mind that I'm learning what the appropriate settings are as we go along.  I'm going to constantly tweak them until everything feels right.

My latest job was assigning elements and rarities to cards in the Forest deck, and editing all their names so you could see easily what level, element, and rarity a card is.  That took bloody ages!


----------



## jonesy

Morrus said:


> My latest job was assigning elements and rarities to cards in the Forest deck, and editing all their names so you could see easily what level, element, and rarity a card is.  That took bloody ages!



Looks good.


----------



## jonesy

Morrus said:


> Well, bear in mind that I'm learning what the appropriate settings are as we go along.  I'm going to constantly tweak them until everything feels right.



re: the leprechaun card

I just beat and won myself one of them:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=1145
I have no idea how or why. It says I invoked the Plus rule? Is the leprechaun considered a 7/7/7/7 card then? Or is it, being a leprechaun, random, and I just got stupendously lucky? In any case, weird card.


----------



## Morrus

The Leprechaun is 7999.

Well done!  They're set to very rare, so the chances of you finding a leprechaun in a booster pack of five cards is only 5/1000.  On average you'd have to buy 200 booster packs to find one.


----------



## jonesy

Morrus said:


> Incidentally, if anyone with too much time on their hands wants to design a deck, I'd be happy to include it.  Needs about 100 cards per full set.



Just the values, or the art as well? I are not an artiste, but I do have ideas for the former.


----------



## Morrus

jonesy said:


> Just the values, or the art as well? I are not an artiste, but I do have ideas for the former.




Well, yeah, it needs are.

I'm considering War of the Burning Sky and ZEITGEIST decks, but I don't think we've 100+ colour NPC/monster images for either.


----------



## TarionzCousin

I was disqualified from the first tournament due to time. I signed in but had to wait for my opponent. When he/she signed in, I was out playing D&D!

So I signed up for the second tournament so I can lose fair and square.


----------



## Rune

Seemed like there was a lot of that going on.  Out of curiosity, is the time-out during the an open game reset with each move?  It seems that that would be the best way to get around scheduling issues (that and a 24 hour time-out, of course).


----------



## TarionzCousin

I timed out before I made a move.

I hope you got the gold, though. We need more gp on this site!


----------



## Rune

TarionzCousin said:


> Congratulations on your win.




Such as it is.



> I hope you got the gold, though. We need more gp on this site!




I don't think so, but I don't really feel like I deserve any.


----------



## jonesy

Rune said:


> I don't think so, but I don't really feel like I deserve any.



You didn't get the reward?


----------



## Morrus

That's interesting.  I wonder why you didn't get it?


----------



## TarionzCousin

Morrus said:


> That's interesting.  I wonder why you didn't get it?



It's probably on account of all these thieves we've got on these boards. They should take up respectable professions, like assassin.


----------



## Theo R Cwithin

Personally, I think the Leprechaun took the gold.  That's where I'd look first, anyway.


----------



## Scott DeWar

TarionzCousin said:


> It's probably on account of all these thieves we've got on these boards. They should take up respectable professions, like assassin.






the_orc_within said:


> Personally, I think the Leprechaun took the gold.  That's where I'd look first, anyway.




short guy, wears green, pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, Yup i saw him take it!


----------



## jonesy

Here's an idea: remove the elements from Bored Guardsman. If he is supposed to be the beginner opponent they are making him way too hard.

And I'm not just saying this because I lost a dragon to him. Ok, maybe I am. 

By the way, what sort of values and deck compositions were you thinking of placing on the available decks and cards once you set the gold system up? For example: Starter Deck, Booster Deck, Advanced Deck, Advanced Booster Deck, Single Card, Two Identical Cards, Two Different Cards..


----------



## PolterGhost

jonesy said:


> Want to know what I'd really like? The same game with a bigger playing field.
> 
> I don't really know if that's doable. Probably not.



Look into Tetra Master from FF9.  Since this is based off the card game from FF8, they should seem very similar.  They have major differences, and I don't think anybody has ever had the patience to code their own version of it for forum use.

FF being Final Fantasy, of course.


----------



## HolyMan

Well I got my free deck and it had 10 copies of the same girl. (dryad? naked and hugging tress so I guess).

Is that right I think it said she was rare but her stats are the worse 

Top -6
left and right -1
bottom- 2

Well I got my butt handed to me but I had fun (which is the main reason to play - _No_? )

I know have a deck with nine of the little naked ladies anyone want to trade?

EDIT: System sent me a message and it showed her name - Xia 

HM


----------



## jonesy

HolyMan said:


> Well I got my free deck and it had 10 copies of the same girl. (dryad? naked and hugging tress so I guess).
> 
> Is that right I think it said she was rare but her stats are the worse
> 
> Top -6
> left and right -1
> bottom- 2



Yeah, that shouldn't be. She is a rare card.

I tried buying some of the free decks and they all give out 10 Xia's. Something's messed up there.

Edit: the free Monsters & Villains deck is giving out the proper spread of cards, but Magic Forest isn't.

By the way, Xia is actually a surprisingly useful card. When you get into how the Plus matches work the 6-1 difference is very effective.


----------



## Ultimatecalibur

Ran into a glitch in a M&V match with the Goblin Chieftain. I played one card and then the computer played one of my cards (Octopus) and one of its (Purple) on top of it, later on because I had no more cards in hand the game froze.


----------



## jonesy

Ultimatecalibur said:


> Ran into a glitch in a M&V match with the Goblin Chieftain. I played one card and then the computer played one of my cards (Octopus) and one of its (Purple) on top of it, later on because I had no more cards in hand the game froze.



As I keep saying in this thread, the game gets into a lot of visual glitches. Just hit refresh, and you'll see what the battlefield really looks like, and the game continues normally.

Also, if you left the game already, earlier in this thread I posted instructions for how to unhang games. Nobody seems to have noticed as the Battle Arena room is full of hung games.


----------



## Morrus

HolyMan said:


> Well I got my free deck and it had 10 copies of the same girl. (dryad? naked and hugging tress so I guess).
> 
> Is that right I think it said she was rare but her stats are the worse
> 
> Top -6
> left and right -1
> bottom- 2
> 
> Well I got my butt handed to me but I had fun (which is the main reason to play - _No_? )
> 
> I know have a deck with nine of the little naked ladies anyone want to trade?
> 
> EDIT: System sent me a message and it showed her name - Xia
> 
> HM




That's weird.  She's definitely set as rare.


----------



## Morrus

I've reported the bug to the developer.  In the meantime, setting that card back to common seems to have fixed the problem.


----------



## UnknownAtThisTime

What is a medallion?  I can not seem ti discern the values.


----------



## Orius

Ohh, interesting.  It's basically Triple Triad from FFVIII, except with hot fairies instead of FFVIII monsters/characters.  And I rock at Triple Triad.

The Elemental stuff seems to be kind of bugged.  It's not showing up on the field or the cards.  You can see it in this match:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=1677

And I agree with Jonesy.  There's too many rules in Random Guardsman for a beginner game.  Probably either Elemental, Sudden Death or Random should go.  I'd really say Random or Sudden Death rather than Elemental; IME Elemental isn't a rule to worry about since it's pretty random.  If anything, in that game Sudden Death was a bigger problem since the AI wasn't playing too stupid (unlike the typical FFVIII NPC that plays cards in a fixed and very easy to beat pattern), and it took several rounds for it to make a mistake.  Also, if he's easy he should only have the first two levels instead of three.

Basic strategy tip: try to control the corners.  Erica from the starter deck is your first good card for this, as you can see with her 6/6 in the upper left corner.  Play her towards the bottom and right and the Guardsman can only flip her with Pap or Trug unless you put her on an element.  Also, the Guardsman has Open, so keep your weaker numbers against a wall or another card and don't expose them on a side where he can flip you.

And please, less opponents with Random.


----------



## jonesy

Orius said:


> The Elemental stuff seems to be kind of bugged.  It's not showing up on the field or the cards.  You can see it in this match:
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=1677



I was going to go with my usual mantra of 'if you hit refresh during the match, they will show up again', but that's the first time I've seen it so bugged that even the replay isn't showing them (which usually isn't bothered by the visual glitches).


----------



## Orius

Another really nasty bug I noticed: sometimes the AI plays two cards at once.  The first time this happened to me, the AI somehow managed to play a card outside the board (below the bottom center square) and turned a bunch of my cards in a nasty combo.  Worst part is the AI's cheating (there is no other word for this) doesn't even show up in a replay, so I can't show it. 

Second time this happened, I hit refresh immediately.  That fixed things and showed only one card played by the opponent.

I see someone tweaked the rules on the Guard.  It's a good improvement for beginning matches, though I think keeping Elemental wouldn't have made it too hard.  OTOH, there's little use for Elemental in a beginner game since only Xia in the lower sets has an element.  That's the thing about elements, it tends to be applied pretty randomly, and it's not much of a rule if there's not enough cards to apply it strategically.  I've never really based ay Triple Triad strategies on it at all because of its randomness.


----------



## jonesy

Orius said:


> Another really nasty bug I noticed: sometimes the AI plays two cards at once.  The first time this happened to me, the AI somehow managed to play a card outside the board (below the bottom center square) and turned a bunch of my cards in a nasty combo.  Worst part is the AI's cheating (there is no other word for this) doesn't even show up in a replay, so I can't show it.
> 
> Second time this happened, I hit refresh immediately.  That fixed things and showed only one card played by the opponent.



It's not really the AI playing two different cards, it's your computer receiving the wrong information about what is happening on the battlefield. What you see isn't what is going on. That's why it hasn't been showing up in the replays. Because it's not actually happening. Might be a lag issue.


----------



## jonesy

Looking at the spread of cards that people have collected so far, it seems that most people aren't finding anything. Or they are and then lose them. Might be good if there was a way to mark cards that you possess as unusable in battles so that they wouldn't randomly appear in matches you can't win, or a way to play only on certain exact levels. Or maybe just allow the player to pick the starting hand all the time.


----------



## Orius

Now that is just ugly.  Well, I'll just refresh when it happens again.

Anyway, back to Elemental, if it gets readded to the Guard, there really should be some cards to take full advantage of it. I don't know exactly how many different elements are on the Forest board, I've only seen Fire, Water, and Lightning.  There's already a Water card in the set, so 1 Fire and 1 Lightning card would be useful to round things out for low level matches, assuming the card stats can be tweaked.  It's say the Gila, Joe, Droga, and Kiba cards would probably be the best ones for adding elements (particularly the dwarves since they're not in the starter), none are really that powerful, but they have fairly average stats.  It could be useful as an introduction to strategy for new players. Definitely NOT Berserker, since he has an A.

Also can the profile show how many of each card I have when viewed in my profile?


----------



## jonesy

Orius said:


> I don't know exactly how many different elements are on the Forest board, I've only seen Fire, Water, and Lightning.



Level 1:
 Xia/Water (rare card)
Level 4:
 Firegoi/Fire (rare card)
Level 5:
 Blugahorix/water (rare card)
 Firegoran/fire (uncommon card)
 Urafop/lightning (rare card)
Level 7:
 Firemage/fire (uncommon card)
Level 8:
 Fireunico/fire (rare card)
Level 10:
 Poseidon/water (rare card)
Vulcan/fire (rare card)
 Zeus/lightning (rare card)

And there's four special Elements cards, one for each, all presumably rare cards.


----------



## jonesy

I'm told that the purchase decks thing is now giving out nothing but Blüka. I'm not going to test that further as I'm drowning in level 1 already.


Edit: there's something really odd in how the consecutive matches work (when you get several ties in a row before a win or a loss). It only seems to count the flips from the final match for what cards you win or lose, so that if you lose really badly in the first ties, you'll end up losing a lot of cards and gaining possibly nothing, even if you ultimately win, because it randomizes the hands for the matches following the first tie (even when random should be off). It should either count all final flips from all of the consecutives matches, or not randomize your hand for the matches after the first tie.

One more thing: matches where the Plus rule is not in effect, and your opponent regularly uses the special cards are unwinnable.

And man, have I been losing lately. Of the past 50 matches maybe a couple have been wins.


----------



## Orius

jonesy said:


> Edit: there's something really odd in how the consecutive matches work (when you get several ties in a row before a win or a loss). It only seems to count the flips from the final match for what cards you win or lose, so that if you lose really badly in the first ties, you'll end up losing a lot of cards and gaining possibly nothing, even if you ultimately win, because it randomizes the hands for the matches following the first tie (even when random should be off). It should either count all final flips from all of the consecutives matches, or not randomize your hand for the matches after the first tie.




Sudden Death is nasty like that.  In FFVIII, when a card gets flipped in a Sudden Death match, it's usable by the opponent in the rematch.  Now I'm kind of shaky on this since in FFVIII a player can manipulate the rules and get rid of ones they don't want and I usually ditch Sudden Death (along with hated rules like Plus and Random), but I think it has to do with trade rules.  If it's Direct, that's when it gets nasty, because players keep whatever they flipped.  So yeah Direct and Sudden Death can hose a player even when they win.  This will happen in a match with the Drunken Cardsharp.

You can see in this match how cards flip to the opponent in Sudden Death:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=1721

Speaking of that match, why do the Diamond and Earth cards have no visible numbers?  I can't tell how powerful they are, and I only won that match through luck.

And another thing: the Monsters and Villains set looks like it's a direct rip of the FFVIII card set.  The cards look like they have the exact same values, and some even have the same name.  I noticed that when I saw the set's Minimog card.  Just compare them:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197343-final-fantasy-viii/faqs/4907
http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=database&tab=2


----------



## Morrus

jonesy said:


> I'm told that the purchase decks thing is now giving out nothing but Blüka. I'm not going to test that further as I'm drowning in level 1 already.




I'm still trying to get my head round how the rarity settings work.  I've tried something else, which I hope will be correct this time.




> One more thing: matches where the Plus rule is not in effect, and your opponent regularly uses the special cards are unwinnable.




Once the rarity setting is correct, you'll see those much less often from the NPCs.


----------



## jonesy

And now refreshing during the match has stopped working for me. The computer opponent is refusing to make a move.


----------



## TarionzCousin

jonesy said:


> And now refreshing during the match has stopped working for me. The computer opponent is refusing to make a move.



Don't take that from it! Slap your computer a bit. Shake it up. 

That should show it who's boss.


----------



## jonesy

TarionzCousin said:


> Don't take that from it! Slap your computer a bit. Shake it up.
> 
> That should show it who's boss.



Somehow I don't think Morrus would let me slap the EN World servers.


----------



## jonesy

Since up until now I've been able to get the matches going again every time they've been stuck, I didn't notice this earlier:

Every single match under 'Live Matches' (except for maybe 4 or 5 of the top ones) appear to be hung games:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena

Just like the cards you choose for a tournament before it begins, every single card that players have in play in those hung matches are unavailable to them in other matches.

This means that every time that a game gets stuck like that the players lose access to ALL cards in play in those matches. This is not a small problem.

Edit: I've still been able to finish other matches, but I'm now wary of playing in any of the random ones, or using good cards, because I can't be sure that the match can be completed. Which kinda sucks.


----------



## TarionzCousin

jonesy said:


> Since up until now I've been able to get the matches going again every time they've been stuck, I didn't notice this earlier:
> 
> Every single match under 'Live Matches' (except for maybe 4 or 5 of the top ones) appear to be hung games:
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena



Make sure that you click on "Leave Match" when your match is done. Don't just click on any other link. I had a couple dozen cards unavailable to me until I tried this trick.


----------



## Orius

Setting up a trade isn't working right in IE9.  I click on the arrows to offer or request cards, and they don't show up in the boxes to the right.  The interface does subract the card from my collection, but I can't complete the trade offer because it thinks I'm not offering anything.  It's working right in Chrome though.


----------



## jonesy

TarionzCousin said:


> Make sure that you click on "Leave Match" when your match is done. Don't just click on any other link. I had a couple dozen cards unavailable to me until I tried this trick.



Which might be sound advice for most cases, except that I have two matches currently stuck where the Leave Match link is giving me the message "it is not your turn".


----------



## FireLance

I think I encountered a bug. One of my cards suddenly disappeared halfway through the game, and now it's my turn and I don't have any cards to play.

Link: http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=battle&id=1938

EDIT: Hmmm... clicking on the link brought me back to the game, the card re-appeared.


----------



## Morrus

IMPORTANT!

[MENTION=10324]jonesy[/MENTION]   [MENTION=31304]TarionzCousin[/MENTION]   [MENTION=90161]A flannel shirt[/MENTION]   

I've reported the hung game bug to the developer, who has responded:



> I think the best way to fix that would probably be to always allow leaving matches when it's a CPU battle.
> 
> Not sure how easy it'll be though... I'll have a look once I'm done with vBShout and had something to eat xD
> 
> Could you post the exact wording of the error you get when trying to leave a match when it's not your turn? That'll help tracking down exactly where it's happening so I know where to change the code




So could someone please post the exact error message they're getting?


----------



## A flannel shirt

There isn't any errors, it just sits on the computers turn and does nothing.

However I may have found something.

Jonesy, and Tarionz have entered the newest tournament.  I tried to enter but as soon as I read something like once you enter the tournament you can't play in any other games.  I decided to close that window because I wanted to play more games and wait for the tournament to be filled or close to it.

I hope this helps.

I'm going to officially join the tournament now.


----------



## dogoftheunderworld

jonesy said:


> Looking at the spread of cards that people have collected so far, it seems that most people aren't finding anything. Or they are and then lose them. Might be good if there was a way to mark cards that you possess as unusable in battles so that they wouldn't randomly appear in matches you can't win, or a way to play only on certain exact levels. Or maybe just allow the player to pick the starting hand all the time.




One way of doing this "within the system" is to start a Bored Guardsman match, and select the cards you want to protect.  Then exit without finishing the game and start a higher level Random game.  The cards in the B.G. match should be unavailble/protected for random selection.  Then after the random match, go to your "Active Battles" link and finish the B.G. game.


----------



## A flannel shirt

dogoftheunderworld said:


> One way of doing this "within the system" is to start a Bored Guardsman match, and select the cards you want to protect.  Then exit without finishing the game and start a higher level Random game.  The cards in the B.G. match should be unavailble/protected for random selection.  Then after the random match, go to your "Active Battles" link and finish the B.G. game.




This could work but might mess up other things.  I've noticed that the more I win against the lower guys, the more cards I get and the more daring I am to facing the big guys.  I also play matches against the stronger guys and fully expect to lose but if you play the one type of game you keep what you "capture" you just go in looking for new cards.  It is VERY slow to do but it works.  This gets easier when you get magical items.

-----------------
Also the tournament is full and my opponent is dog.  But whenever I try and join the game to play him I get this message: This is not a tournament match.

A side note to the current tourney:  Jonesy and I can only face each other in the finals.  

If I understand the brackets correctly.


----------



## Fifth Element

@Morrus  I can't figure out how to start my tournament match. If I pick it from the list of Active Battles, I just get a notice that this is not a tournament match. Which it is.

EDIT: Fixed, the problem was an old CPU match that had hung up. I cleared that and it's fine.


----------



## A flannel shirt

Fifth Element said:


> @Morrus  I can't figure out how to start my tournament match. If I pick it from the list of Active Battles, I just get a notice that this is not a tournament match. Which it is.
> 
> EDIT: Fixed, the problem was an old CPU match that had hung up. I cleared that and it's fine.





Problem for me is I can't clear out those CPU matches.



I actually waited almost 2 hours for the computer to make a move.


----------



## jonesy

Fifth Element said:


> EDIT: Fixed, the problem was an old CPU match that had hung up. I cleared that and it's fine.



Good. You get the first move. Game on.


----------



## Morrus

A flannel shirt said:


> There isn't any errors, it just sits on the computers turn and does nothing.




You told me via PM that an error message about not beng able to leave a match came up if it was hung on an NPC's turn.


----------



## jonesy

[MENTION=48135]Fifth Element[/MENTION]

Have you entered the match yet? I'm there and it says it's started. And it's your turn. What does it say for you?


----------



## A flannel shirt

Morrus said:


> You told me via PM that an error message about not beng able to leave a match came up if it was hung on an NPC's turn.





I never got an error.  Sorry if my verbage was confusing.  The NPC just doesn't take their turn.

I was able to clear out one of the two battles, but the one battle against the master gamesmith will not move.


----------



## jonesy

A flannel shirt said:


> I never got an error.  Sorry if my verbage was confusing.  The NPC just doesn't take their turn.
> 
> I was able to clear out one of the two battles, but the one battle against the master gamesmith will not move.



Have you tried the Leave The Match option? It was giving me lip at first, but after a couple of tries I got out of it.


----------



## A flannel shirt

jonesy said:


> Have you tried the Leave The Match option? It was giving me lip at first, but after a couple of tries I got out of it.





There isn't a leave option.  The match is still going.


----------



## jonesy

A flannel shirt said:


> There isn't a leave option.  The match is still going.



There should be one in every match under the music options.


----------



## A flannel shirt

It was blocked by the #s.  

Where is the egg on face smiley?



I hover over the "Leave Now" and can't click it.

I'm going to try in a different browser.

Edit:
I think I got it!

EDIT2:
I got it, for some reason it didn't like firefox much and all the "buttons / Links " were moved.  I used IE6 and found the correct placement of "leave match" and was able to leave it.  I'm in the tourney.


----------



## dogoftheunderworld

ACK!  For some reason on my cruddy work PC (IE 6), when a card is played on an elemental space, all I see is the large "-1"... I can't see the actual card.

(Flannel, I'm heading home soon, so I will join our tourney match then.)

Thanks...


----------



## Fifth Element

jonesy said:


> @Fifth Element
> 
> Have you entered the match yet? I'm there and it says it's started. And it's your turn. What does it say for you?



[MENTION=10324]jonesy[/MENTION]

I'm there now and the first move has been made.


----------



## jonesy

Fifth Element said:


> [MENTION=10324]jonesy[/MENTION]
> 
> I'm there now and the first move has been made.



Gotcha.

Edit: wow, dude. That was a really nice Plus Combo you pulled there. Totally deserved victory.


----------



## Fifth Element

jonesy said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> Edit: wow, dude. That was a really nice Plus Combo you pulled there. Totally deserved victory.



Thanks, got lucky really.


----------



## A flannel shirt

I still have a hard time understanding plus.

I've pulled off awesome ones without even knowing.

I'm surprised I play this game being so bad at math and thinking a head.

I'm a terrible chess player.


----------



## jonesy

A flannel shirt said:


> I still have a hard time understanding plus.
> 
> I've pulled off awesome ones without even knowing.
> 
> I'm surprised I play this game being so bad at math and thinking a head.
> 
> I'm a terrible chess player.



On each card you have a value in each of the four directions. When you place a card on the table each of those values will either face nothing, a value on another card, or the side of the playing area (designated as wall, with a value of 10).

Now, each of those directions forms a pair of numbers. A pair is a number on your card, and the number facing it. If the sums of two of those pairs are an exact match, you win in both directions. Even if the numbers on your card on those two facing pairs are lower than the numbers facing your card.

Man, this really is a hard rule to explain concisely.

Edit:

I'll use the match with me and Fifth Element as a better example:


----------



## Velmont

I have try it out a lot today, at least against NPC. Bugs I have found or things I find annoying:

*1) Cannot see opponent move*
Sometimes, when I play against the Wandering Trickster, he is first to play and he seems to not play. I got tired of waiting and see that I can play even if it's my opponent turn. When I play, I seldom cannot do my move as I want to play at the same place as the Wandering Trickster (but the card was not played, so I have no clue what card he played). Once I play, his card is played quickly followed by mine. Then, things come back to normal, but I had to blindly play my first move.

To reproduce:
1) Start a game vs Wandering Trickster
2) Wandering Trickster must go first
3) Wandering Trickster doesn't seems to play.

*2) Cannot select card to put in my deck*
I bought many starter deck to have at least 5 of each. I don't know if that the cause, but when it's time to choose my deck, most of my card have a count number at 0 or in the negative. How I am suppose to compete against higher NPC when I can't select some of the fey, most of my dwarves and all my treant and Earth Elementals

To reproduce:
1) Start a game vs Drunken Cardmaster or Bored Guardsman

*3)Magical Items*
I have a medallion... how does it work? I feel it flip randomly and that is also annoying.


----------



## jonesy

Velmont said:


> *1) Cannot see opponent move*



Refresh works in most cases to see what is actually going on on the battlefield.



> *2) Cannot select card to put in my deck*



You have 30 or 40 matches in the Battle Arena room. Those are all matches which you haven't completed, or which have become stuck. That's ~30 X 5 cards that you can not use because they are tied to those matches. You need to go back to them and finish them or unstick them before you get the cards back to use.


----------



## Fifth Element

jonesy said:


> I'll use the match with me and Fifth Element as a better example:



Excellent example! I'm considering retirement and resting on that one brilliant move. There's nowhere to go but down now.


----------



## Velmont

jonesy said:


> Refresh works in most cases to see what is actually going on on the battlefield.




Ok, thanks.




jonesy said:


> You have 30 or 40 matches in the Battle Arena room. Those are all matches which you haven't completed, or which have become stuck. That's ~30 X 5 cards that you can not use because they are tied to those matches. You need to go back to them and finish them or unstick them before you get the cards back to use.




Some yes, some are game I haven't completed because I was just trying things around.


----------



## A flannel shirt

jonesy said:


> On each card you have a value in each of the four directions. When you place a card on the table each of those values will either face nothing, a value on another card, or the side of the playing area (designated as wall, with a value of 10).
> 
> Now, each of those directions forms a pair of numbers. A pair is a number on your card, and the number facing it. If the sums of two of those pairs are an exact match, you win in both directions. Even if the numbers on your card on those two facing pairs are lower than the numbers facing your card.
> 
> Man, this really is a hard rule to explain concisely.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I'll use the match with me and Fifth Element as a better example:





I understand it (mostly) but it is so hard to spot.  Nice combo 5th.  I'm still waiting on dog to move.


My best match was this one:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=1415

@Velmont
I have a few medallions.  From what I can tell them flip the cards they are by but get flipped if they are a -1 from the elements.  However I am not 100% because I have seen some strange things.

I personally don't like the elements.  I've only have one elemental card and she isn't very good.  If there were more elemental cards the option would be cool.

Does anyone know how long a person gets to take turns in tournaments?


----------



## dogoftheunderworld

Thanks for the match flannel.  I know there's a 24 hour timeout , but I don't know if that is per turn, or for the whole game.

Also, let me know how the rest of the tournament goes... I didn't select some of my good cards for the first round, because I assumed you couldn;t re-use them.  Looks like you pulled out all the stops first round, so I'll be interested to hear if you could use them all again.


----------



## A flannel shirt

dogoftheunderworld said:


> Thanks for the match flannel.  I know there's a 24 hour timeout , but I don't know if that is per turn, or for the whole game.
> 
> Also, let me know how the rest of the tournament goes... I didn't select some of my good cards for the first round, because I assumed you couldn;t re-use them.  Looks like you pulled out all the stops first round, so I'll be interested to hear if you could use them all again.




Oops

I hope I have some good ones in reserve.  I don't even remember what I picked.

I blew it the first round.  I only won because of the medallion in the 2nd.

I wonder why the tournament bracket didn't update. 

GG


----------



## A flannel shirt

Our tournament bracket hasn't updated.

The match can be found here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=2012


----------



## Morrus

A flannel shirt said:


> Our tournament bracket hasn't updated.
> 
> The match can be found here:
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=2012




Did you leave the match correctly?


----------



## Lanefan

dogoftheunderworld said:


> ACK!  For some reason on my cruddy work PC (IE 6), when a card is played on an elemental space, all I see is the large "-1"... I can't see the actual card.



I have the same problem - all I see is a big '-1' on a gray background, completely blocking the card beneath.  In other words, I'm playing blind.

Problem is, the computer can still see the original card.

Lanefan


----------



## dogoftheunderworld

Morrus said:


> Did you leave the match correctly?




As far I can tell.  It doesn't show up as an Active Battle.  Under my latest matches, it also doesn't show as a Tournament game though...

Edit : the match id is 2012   (end of the world match?)


----------



## A flannel shirt

dogoftheunderworld said:


> As far I can tell.  It doesn't show up as an Active Battle.  Under my latest matches, it also doesn't show as a Tournament game though...





Same on my side.  Interesting note is if we didn't have the match why didn't it disqualify us?

Strange things are afoot at the circle k.


----------



## PolterGhost

I apparently DQ'ed from the Tourney despite never being offered my match at any time.  Kind of disappointing, you know?


----------



## Lanefan

me said:


> I have the same problem - all I see is a big '-1' on a gray background, completely blocking the card beneath.  In other words, I'm playing blind.
> 
> Problem is, the computer can still see the original card.



Any answer on this?  It pretty much means I can't play a game with "elemental" in play, unless I want to have half the game be random because I'm flying blind (I've actually won a few of those, but really...). 

Further question: what use are magic items?  I have one, but the rules are pretty sparse (by that I mean there's nothing) about them.

Lan-"there are fewer bored guardsmen than there were"-efan


----------



## Morrus

Lanefan said:


> Any answer on this? It pretty much means I can't play a game with "elemental" in play, unless I want to have half the game be random because I'm flying blind (I've actually won a few of those, but really...).




Certainly not that I can do anything about. I can report to the developers that it doesn't work properly on IE6, but I can't imagine they'll be in a rush to support a browser that old.   I'll let them know juse in case, though.


----------



## A flannel shirt

Lanefan said:


> Any answer on this?  It pretty much means I can't play a game with "elemental" in play, unless I want to have half the game be random because I'm flying blind (I've actually won a few of those, but really...).
> 
> Further question: what use are magic items?  I have one, but the rules are pretty sparse (by that I mean there's nothing) about them.
> 
> Lan-"there are fewer bored guardsmen than there were"-efan




I have that problem too, but when it happens just go to your active matches and select the one you are on.  It will reload the "assets" and the elements will appear again.  No idea how many matches it took me to figure that out.

It happens on both IE6 and FF.


----------



## Lanefan

A flannel shirt said:


> I have that problem too, but when it happens just go to your active matches and select the one you are on.  It will reload the "assets" and the elements will appear again.  No idea how many matches it took me to figure that out.
> 
> It happens on both IE6 and FF.



A simple "refresh" makes the elements symbols reappear; that's no big deal at all.

The problem is that whenever a card is played onto an element symbol it disappears completely, replaced with a big '-1' (or '+1', as appropriate) on a gray background.  I can't find any way of getting it to show the card underneath, thus if I didn't get a glimpse of it* while it was being played (i.e. while it was moving down the screen into position) I've no clue what's sitting there.  This happens to the cards I play as well, but at least with those I've had a chance to look at them first and can sort-of try and remember what's where.

* - particularly bad when it freezes; I reload the game and there's a new '-1' sitting there...Wandering Trickster seems to freeze way more often than Bored Guardsman does.

Even something like a "show last card played" option would be a functional workaround, as I could then scribble that card's stats onto a piece of paper.

Lan-"in my case it should be called Memory Wars instead of Prismatic Wars"-efan


----------



## A flannel shirt

Lanefan said:


> A simple "refresh" makes the elements symbols reappear; that's no big deal at all.
> 
> The problem is that whenever a card is played onto an element symbol it disappears completely, replaced with a big '-1' (or '+1', as appropriate) on a gray background.  I can't find any way of getting it to show the card underneath, thus if I didn't get a glimpse of it* while it was being played (i.e. while it was moving down the screen into position) I've no clue what's sitting there.  This happens to the cards I play as well, but at least with those I've had a chance to look at them first and can sort-of try and remember what's where.
> 
> * - particularly bad when it freezes; I reload the game and there's a new '-1' sitting there...Wandering Trickster seems to freeze way more often than Bored Guardsman does.
> 
> Even something like a "show last card played" option would be a functional workaround, as I could then scribble that card's stats onto a piece of paper.
> 
> Lan-"in my case it should be called Memory Wars instead of Prismatic Wars"-efan





That has never happened to me.


----------



## dogoftheunderworld

*Back to the Tournament Game issue....*

Also, ever since the Trounament game between myself and flanel shirt got "hung" (says pending even though it finished for both of us):  My card inventory is skewed.  It looks like it is still holding my tournament cards as "in use".   If I select an NPC game where I get to choose (e.g. Bored Guard or Card Sharp), it says some cards have 0 (and even -1 !) available.  However, if I choose a random select game (e.g. Wandering Trickster), all my cards are apparently available, because some of the random cards chosen otherwise show up as zero available.

I'm pretty sure it's related to the tournament game being hosed, but good luck debugging that


----------



## A flannel shirt

dogoftheunderworld said:


> Also, ever since the Trounament game between myself and flanel shirt got "hung" (says pending even though it finished for both of us):  My card inventory is skewed.  It looks like it is still holding my tournament cards as "in use".   If I select an NPC game where I get to choose (e.g. Bored Guard or Card Sharp), it says some cards have 0 (and even -1 !) available.  However, if I choose a random select game (e.g. Wandering Trickster), all my cards are apparently available, because some of the random cards chosen otherwise show up as zero available.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's related to the tournament game being hosed, but good luck debugging that




I'll second that.

Even with all the bugs I still have fun playing it.  I recently won a pot of gold called lucky bottle?  No flipping clue what it does but I have one.

What I would love to see is a way to trade to a specific person or leave messages on a current trade.  I'll give you this if you change that.  The current trade by Orius is a good example.  You can get all those cards for free.


----------



## Velmont

Lanefan said:


> A simple "refresh" makes the elements symbols reappear; that's no big deal at all.
> 
> The problem is that whenever a card is played onto an element symbol it disappears completely, replaced with a big '-1' (or '+1', as appropriate) on a gray background.  I can't find any way of getting it to show the card underneath, thus if I didn't get a glimpse of it* while it was being played (i.e. while it was moving down the screen into position) I've no clue what's sitting there.  This happens to the cards I play as well, but at least with those I've had a chance to look at them first and can sort-of try and remember what's where.
> 
> * - particularly bad when it freezes; I reload the game and there's a new '-1' sitting there...Wandering Trickster seems to freeze way more often than Bored Guardsman does.
> 
> Even something like a "show last card played" option would be a functional workaround, as I could then scribble that card's stats onto a piece of paper.
> 
> Lan-"in my case it should be called Memory Wars instead of Prismatic Wars"-efan




Are you using Firefox? For me, I don't have that problem. It might be browser related.


----------



## Velmont

I'm playing against the summoned Imp. Each time I try to play a card to prepare a combo, he ALWAYS play his card that the right place. I'm feeling like playing a player who see my card, but I'm unable to see his. That's make almost impossible to win against him.

Also, I will come back with one of my earlier question: What does the item. That's another problem I see. These cards are totally random to me, but the computer seems to be well aware how to use them. That's also annoying.


----------



## Lanefan

Velmont said:


> Are you using Firefox? For me, I don't have that problem. It might be browser related.



I'm using IE6.  It's about the only browser that doesn't make my (admittedly old and creaky) computer completely choke.

Lanefan


----------



## TarionzCousin

Is the Second Tournament stuck? It has been two or three days (I think) since I advanced via my opponent's disqualification. My match with [MENTION=48135]Fifth Element[/MENTION] hasn't started.

I am, of course, moving this weekend and had hoped to play my match before I was offline for a day or two.


----------



## Velmont

One thing I find annoying is the Direct Win Condition when you tied a game.

Let's see an exemple.

Player starts with cards P1 to P5.
CPU starts with cards C1 to C5.

After a tie, player 1 ends with P1, P2, C3, C4, C5
CPU ends with C1, C2, P3, P4, P5

During the rematch, the player is able to flip P3 and P4 while the CPU flip only C5.

Game result: Player win P3 and P4 cards while he lose C5.

After the rematch, player 1 ends with P1, P2, P3, P4, C3, C4
CPU ends with C1, C2, C5, P5

So, in the end, the player lose cards he hasn't even start with and gain cards the CPU didn't had... sounds like strange. I would have expected either:

In case of tie: Player would have won cards C3, C4, C5 and lost P3, P4, P5

OR

In case of tie, rematch, but at the end, Player would have lost P5 but would have won C3 and C4.

Because at the moment, you can lose cards you don't even have. Or worst, card you had only once and you didn't even bet in the challenge.


----------



## A flannel shirt

Velmont said:


> One thing I find annoying is the Direct Win Condition when you tied a game.
> 
> Let's see an exemple.
> 
> Player starts with cards P1 to P5.
> CPU starts with cards C1 to C5.
> 
> After a tie, player 1 ends with P1, P2, C3, C4, C5
> CPU ends with C1, C2, P3, P4, P5
> 
> During the rematch, the player is able to flip P3 and P4 while the CPU flip only C5.
> 
> Game result: Player win P3 and P4 cards while he lose C5.
> 
> After the rematch, player 1 ends with P1, P2, P3, P4, C3, C4
> CPU ends with C1, C2, C5, P5
> 
> So, in the end, the player lose cards he hasn't even start with and gain cards the CPU didn't had... sounds like strange. I would have expected either:
> 
> In case of tie: Player would have won cards C3, C4, C5 and lost P3, P4, P5
> 
> OR
> 
> In case of tie, rematch, but at the end, Player would have lost P5 but would have won C3 and C4.
> 
> Because at the moment, you can lose cards you don't even have. Or worst, card you had only once and you didn't even bet in the challenge.





I think I know what you are talking about.  Do you mean if you tie the first round, then win the match the 2nd and only get to keep the cards you "flipped" in the 2nd?  The worst case scenario is you just won your own cards back.

I find that annoying as the cards I flipped in the first round I should be able to take at the end.


----------



## Velmont

A flannel shirt said:


> I think I know what you are talking about.  Do you mean if you tie the first round, then win the match the 2nd and only get to keep the cards you "flipped" in the 2nd?  The worst case scenario is you just won your own cards back.
> 
> I find that annoying as the cards I flipped in the first round I should be able to take at the end.




Exactly. Even worst, you can lose your opponent Cards from your collection.


----------



## A flannel shirt

That is annoying.

I can't stand the plus rule.  I always miss it, but then when I want to play the lower level guys I play some of my better cards.  I will dominate the entire match, then the NPC plays his last card and "Plus"s me then combos for a lopsided win.

I am at the point where it is just as much of a pain to win common cards as rare ones.

The NPCs were different when I first started.  Does it change by day or is it set within the program?  Some of those NPC rules (Plus / Elemental) should be turned off for the some of the weaker guys.


----------



## Velmont

I agree. I feels sometimes the CPU is playing too bright.

What I mean, and I have tested. I play a card to I can use a Plus combo on my next move. 100% of the time, he play his next card right where I wanted to play mine, even if we play cards hidden from opponent and there is more than 1 square where possible Plus is combo is possible. He seems to always see what is the best place to block me.


----------



## TarionzCousin

TarionzCousin said:


> Is the Second Tournament stuck? It has been two or three days (I think) since I advanced via my opponent's disqualification. My match with [MENTION=48135]Fifth Element[/MENTION] hasn't started.



It has been 3 more days. [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION], Is there a week between rounds?


----------



## Velmont

Magic Forest:

What does the Elements and Magic Items Cards works? Seriously, it looks like totally random to me, but the CPU knows perfectly how to use them, so I lose games because of that (and I just lost 5 really good cards because of that).

Villains:

Is it normal that the CPU play like as if he see my cards when we are supposed to play with hidden cards. I cannot win against the Summoned Imp because he always (always as 100% out of over 20 game testing to try to do some combos) see my Plus and Same combo coming. He ALWAYS block me.


That game starts to be frustrating because of those two issues and I hope to have answers.


----------



## Morrus

I'm going to need to assign a Prismatic Wars admin to this game to handle card and CPU player administration. 

Anyone interested send me a PM. You'd pretty much be in charge of Prismatic Wars - answering questions, handling the settings and card details, and so on.


----------



## A flannel shirt

Morrus said:


> I'm going to need to assign a Prismatic Wars admin to this game to handle card and CPU player administration.
> 
> Anyone interested send me a PM. You'd pretty much be in charge of Prismatic Wars - answering questions, handling the settings and card details, and so on.





Any updates on this?


----------



## dogoftheunderworld

A flannel shirt said:


> That is annoying.
> 
> I can't stand the plus rule.  I always miss it, but then when I want to play the lower level guys I play some of my better cards.  I will dominate the entire match, then the NPC plays his last card and "Plus"s me then combos for a lopsided win.
> 
> I am at the point where it is just as much of a pain to win common cards as rare ones.
> 
> The NPCs were different when I first started.  Does it change by day or is it set within the program?  Some of those NPC rules (Plus / Elemental) should be turned off for the some of the weaker guys.




Plus isn;t too bad, might make a 2-card swing... but with Combo -- Crazy stuff like a 5-7 card swing... bad news..

I can understand having the extra rules for a higher level of play/challenge... but especially with "blind" settings, it gives in to too much luck on that last card played.


----------



## Morrus

A flannel shirt said:


> Any updates on this?




What, in under a day?  No.


----------



## A flannel shirt

This is a perfect example of what is frustrating most:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/tripletriad.php?do=arena&act=replay&id=2931

I was doing well in this match and with the cards I had should have dominated, but lost bad due to plus and combo on the last card.

I lost a Reddoddox too.

Not happy.


----------



## Orius

That's why I _hate_ the Plus rule; I often loose good stuff to it. In FFVIII, it's often combined with Random which makes things worse. Some really hardcore FFVIII players actually like the damn thing though.  Best thing to do is try not to play cards which will allow the opponent to setup a nasty combo.  Easier said than done though.

Anyway, here's some information on how the game was set up in FFVIII for whoever ends up taking over this thing.  It might give some insight into how the orginal was balanced (note: Combo is always possible with Same and Plus).

Rule sets in order of appearance:

Region 1: Open
Region 2: Sudden Death, Elemental
Region 3: Same
Region 4: Random, Elemental
Region 5: Random, Plus
Region 6: Random, Same/Plus
Region 7: Elemental, Same Wall
Region 8: Open, Random, Same/Plus/Same Wall, Sudden Death, Elemental (yeah all of them at once).

As I said before, the cards from the Monsters and Villains set have the exact same stats as the original game (some aren't even renamed), not counting magic items.  Also, cards from levels 8-10 are considered rare, there's only one copy of the card in the world at a single time which means only one of each of the cards can ever be played by any player.  The Pupu card (one of the unrenamed cards here btw), though level 5, is also a very rare card and is obtained through a sidequest near the end of the game.  This natually affects the game's overall balance, one thing about Prismatic Wars is that I don't think the higher cards levels have any limits which throws some of the balance out of whack.  

Here's how the rules and cards are distributed throughout the game:

Disc 1:

Your starting area uses Region 1, and opponents only have card levels 1-5 There's a single opponent with Region 2 rules.  After a bit, you leave this area and don't return until the next disc.  The rest of disc one has 4 areas with card players.  Three of these areas use Region 3 rules, the fourth uses Region 4 rules.  Nearly all players only have level 1-4 cards.  There's a very small number of players with level 5 cards, and two players with level 6 cards.

Disc 2:

Most of the world opens up here, so you get access to more players.  You can also start to freely travel around by the middle of the disk. Areas with Region 2, 5, and 6 rules are accessible.  Your home base, which uses Region 1 rules, gets players with level 1-6 and level 1-7 cards. Regions 2 and 5 also have players that go up to levels 6 and 7.  Don't know exactly how high Region 6 goes, I haven't seen anything higher than level 4 from most players, and since it's Random, Same/Plus I never play there at all. 

Disc 3:
This is where Region 7 and 8 rules finally show up.

From this card distribution, the highest number at the start is 7.  A little laters, 8s start appearing.  Only rare cards have 9 and A.

Rare cards are obtained in three ways: beating game bosses who drop cards, winning them from an opponent or sidequests.  There are a few named NPCs throughout the game who start with 1 rare card by default, by playing these NPCs, the player can obtain the rare card.  However, if a player loses a match to an opponent, the player could lose a rare card, which the opponent will be able to use.  It's possible for an opponent to have multiple rare cards to use against the player this way, but they will only have one copy of each card.

Trading rules are a bit different.  There's an NPC called the Card Queen that moves around the world.  Playing her can set the trade rule to whatever the player wants, but the rule can also shift around depending on which trade rule you're using.  I don't understand how it works fully, but I suspect that most of the opponents around here will have One or possibly Direct for game balance, since a player can very quickly amass cards from the Diff and All rules.

Now there are some other nuances to the orginal game, like changing a region's rules, but I don't think that's going to apply here.


----------

