# Can you Take 10/20 on Craft Checks?



## Aluvial (Jun 20, 2003)

I am assuming you can't take 20, because of the critical chance of failure, is that right or wrong?

Taking 10 should be OK...

Aluvial


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## Sejs (Jun 20, 2003)

Taking 10 just represents taking extra time to do the task right.

Taking 20 indicates you're doing it over and over again until you would otherwise get a 20 on the roll.

You should be able to Take 10 on a craft check, no problem.  It'll just take longer.


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## Maitre Du Donjon (Jun 20, 2003)

IIRC you can take 10 anytime you're not stressed. You can't, however, take 20, since failing at a craft check can incur penalties.

Maitre D


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## Maitre Du Donjon (Jun 20, 2003)

Sejs said:
			
		

> *Taking 10 just represents taking extra time to do the task right.
> 
> ...
> 
> You should be able to Take 10 on a craft check, no problem.  It'll just take longer. *





It doesn't take extra time. It just means you take a minimum of care in your task...


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## Aluvial (Jun 20, 2003)

Interesting...

anyhow, can you still have assistance?

Each assistant must have the same craft skill, and if they beat a DC of 10, then you get to add +2 to the Master's Check, correct?

If that is the case, how many assistants would you allow?

For any individual item, I would think 2.  

Now that I think about it, I would allow help based on the items size,  A meduim would be 2, a Large -3, a Huge item - 4 assistants.  

A small item could allow 1 assistant, but anything smaller than small, tiny, etc, would be getting in the way.

What do you think?  Need tweaking?

Aluvial


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## LordAO (Jun 20, 2003)

If you want to take 20 times as long to make the item, sure, you can take a 20 on your craft roll.


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## Aluvial (Jun 20, 2003)

LordAO said:
			
		

> *If you want to take 20 times as long to make the item, sure, you can take a 20 on your craft roll. *




You can't do that due to the critical chance of failure.

Aluvial


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## LordAO (Jun 20, 2003)

Aluvial said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You can't do that due to the critical chance of failure.
> 
> Aluvial *




I suppose not, but considering the insane amount of time it would take to play it safe, I would allow it. Some crafts in real life really did take months or even years because the craftsman chose to take it really slow and get every possible detail just right. I don't see a critical chance of failure in that case. It really is just up to the DM to decide.


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## mikebr99 (Jun 20, 2003)

Aluvial said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You can't do that due to the critical chance of failure.
> 
> Aluvial *



You can... you just pay the costs 20 times, up front. And you'll end up with multiple items. based on 20-DC= number of items created.

YMMV


Mike


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## Elder-Basilisk (Jun 20, 2003)

It would depend on the item to a great extent. For instance, on a sword, I can see two assistants being useful but probably not too much more than that. On a suit of chainmail, maybe three. On a suit of banded mail, half-plate, full-plate, or other item with lots of discrete individual components, however, I could seen tons of assistants working on the individual pieces of the armor while the master craftsman supervises them all.



			
				Aluvial said:
			
		

> *Interesting...
> 
> anyhow, can you still have assistance?
> 
> ...


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## Maitre Du Donjon (Jun 20, 2003)

Shame, SRD says nothing about assistance (at least not in the skill description)... For item size vs. number of assistants, 1 per size category (starting at 1 for small items or less) seems reasonable. Would the bonuses from many assistants stack? they're all "assistant bonus" (although they don't come from the same assistant per se).

For the "take 20" thing, per the rules, you can't but if someone insisted, i would let them do it, but i would consider that the rolls would come in order (ie round 1 roll yields a "1", round 2 roll yields a "2", etc.) It wouldn't be to the character's advantage 

Maitre D


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## kreynolds (Jun 20, 2003)

Aluvial said:
			
		

> *You can't do that due to the critical chance of failure. *




Except there is no chance of critical failure. At the worst, you ruin half your materials, but you in no way whatsoever ruin the entire item. Your progress is simply slowed.


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## AuraSeer (Jun 21, 2003)

kreynolds said:
			
		

> *Except there is no chance of critical failure. At the worst, you ruin half your materials[...]*



...which counts as a "penalty for failure", meaning you cannot take 20.


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