# Rope tied to an arrow



## MarauderX (Jul 12, 2011)

Are there any rules governing tying a rope to an arrow and shooting it into a wall?  Any thoughts on the DC if the wall is rough stone versus stacked block versus wood?  How about shooting an enemy and having the other end staked into the ground?


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## Kinneus (Jul 12, 2011)

Well, if this is happening in-combat, I wouldn't call for a check. The player is giving up their standard action to tie a rope to an arrow. That's a pretty hefty cost already. If you make them perform a check, and they fail, then they lost their standard action. That's almost like a self-imposed stun, and really nasty. If a player's going to try something out of the box, something other than "I use power [x] on [y]," then I'd personally rather not throw up obstacles to block them.

If it's out of combat... maybe Perception or Dungeoneering to spot a chink in the wall where they think they can firmly anchor the arrow?

As for then shooting an enemy with a rope... I don't know. Are they going for a sort of pseudo-harpoon? If so, I don't think that would really work. Arrows are pretty flimsy. It'd likely snap as soon as it was tugged on.

This would be a method for getting one end of the rope across the chasm to the stranded party member. The stranded party member would then have to remove the rope and tie it to something firm to actually move across. A paladin in heavy armor climbing across a rope that is pinned to the wall by a flimsy arrow is in for an unpleasant surprise when that arrowshaft breaks.


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## Kzach (Jul 12, 2011)

MarauderX said:


> Are there any rules governing tying a rope to an arrow and shooting it into a wall?  Any thoughts on the DC if the wall is rough stone versus stacked block versus wood?  How about shooting an enemy and having the other end staked into the ground?




There aren't any established rules that I know of but I'd just make them up on the spot.

I'd warn the player first that attaching a rope to an arrow is going to reduce it's accuracy and distance severely. If you've ever done archery, you'd know that screwing with the arrows is a recipe for disaster. You may as well attach a brick to it. I'd give it a -5 penalty to hit and reduce it's effective firing range to 5/10. I'd also reduce the damage by a dice level so from 1d8 to 1d6.

As for it biting into stone or wood, I'd be hesitant to allow it at all. Versus stone it would most likely bounce off or shatter. It could possibly bite into wood but given the weight of the rope on it, I wouldn't bet my life on it holding a character's weight.

I guess if you could stake the rope fast enough into the ground, it could hold the person in place well enough.

I'm all for improvised actions but at the same time, you always have to be aware that what you rule on the spot has to be good enough to warrant the person's creativity and imagination and risk, but not so good that it becomes a manoeuvre that is better than all the character's other powers and abilities.

Now, on the other hand, if the person wanted to create a power that they took as an encounter or daily, then I'd simply waive physics and allow the power to work within the balance confines of it's slot.


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## wlmartin (Jul 12, 2011)

MarauderX said:


> Are there any rules governing tying a rope to an arrow and shooting it into a wall?  Any thoughts on the DC if the wall is rough stone versus stacked block versus wood?  How about shooting an enemy and having the other end staked into the ground?




This is not something a rule would be written for (otherwise our Corebooks would be 100x the size!) and is more a DM call. DM's have DCs for actions such as kicking things over, knocking doors down etc and it all depends on the type of difficulty the DM believes is present. There are lots of tables and suggestions for them to reference from a rules point of view but the quesiton always comes back to "What Difficulty does the DM think there is in that"

Personaly if I was your DM and you did that, it wouldn't be so much of a DC as the fact that the physics involved probably wouldn't allow for it. A rope is a heavy thing and to produce enough forward velocity and kinetic force to not only propell the arrow weighted down by the rope but also to have it strike an object and secure it there is less down the DC's a skill would cover and more the equipment you are using.

Its a clever idea however


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## MarauderX (Jul 12, 2011)

Also consider that this might be paragon/epic tier with a PC devoted to archery.  Using a great bow with massive arrows and a tremendous pull weight would help to offset the magic silk rope that it is pulling along through the air behind it.


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## Nytmare (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm far more of a "top down" DM when it comes to DCs.  I'll look at what the end result the player wants, hammer on it a little if I think it's too powerful, or too weak, and then choose a DC based off of their level and whether it's an easy/medium/or difficult task.


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## Kzach (Jul 12, 2011)

MarauderX said:


> Also consider that this might be paragon/epic tier with a PC devoted to archery.  Using a great bow with massive arrows and a tremendous pull weight would help to offset the magic silk rope that it is pulling along through the air behind it.




Magic can't be the catch-all-go-to of every fantasy milieu to explain everything. At some point you have to bring things back down to the ground, otherwise there's no point even having a rules system since anything and everything is possible and there are no limitations that a system can represent.

Even attaching a string to a hunting arrow on a hunting compound bow (you know, the ones that are designed to bring down bucks and boars) is going to seriously screw with its trajectory and power. You could have Brock Lesnar pull the thing and it'll still be hard to aim and have a significantly decreased amount of power because of the string.

So sure, magic, epic, whatever, but don't discount reality altogether as you need to draw a line somewhere.


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## ExploderWizard (Jul 12, 2011)

One thing to keep in mind is that the hold gained is only as strong as the weakest link. How difficult is it to snap an arrow in two? How much weight can an arrow support? Have reasonable expectations for these questions and the difficulty will be easier to figure out.


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## Rex Blunder (Jul 12, 2011)

YES! This is a classic D&D question.

In real life, this would absolutely not work.

In D&D, I'd say, yeah, go for it. And if the PCs put boxing gloves on the end of their arrows, they can use them to knock out enemies as well. Anything The Green Arrow can do is OK for D&D.


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## Dross (Jul 13, 2011)

My problems for doing this would be:
Aren't arrows destroyed when they hit(in this case a wall)? 
Strength of arrow itself
How strong the arrow grip on the wall is.

I would ask the same things for harpooning plus
why would the guy harpooned just remove/break the arrow or rope?


Now, if an arrow was specifically designed for anchoring rope to a wall then most of these problems could be dealt with (no damage but sticks to wall, specific range, weight limit).


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## Stormonu (Jul 13, 2011)

Back in 2E, there were stats for stone-biter arrows.  In 3E, you could probably use adamantine heads to get a grip in stone or other material.  In any case, you'd probably want (hollow) metal-shafted arrows instead of wooden one.

Crossbows would probably be an even better bet, especially if you could make/find a "grappling hook" type bolt.  Think of a harpoon gun.

Finally, hemp rope would be a bad idea to have it attached to the arrow.  Either a lead line of string attached to the rope (or a pared down strand) or silk rope would be much better.


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## MarauderX (Jul 13, 2011)

Ok, for the arrow & rope used to make an anchor in a wall, I've set the base DC to be mid paragon hard, then will add to it for materials.  Also I'm going with distance reduction down to one quarter, with 1 square additions for using certain materials.
On the shoot a guy as a grab, I'm basing it on monster grab powers with an escape DC equal to PC reflex, with movement allowed up to the center of the anchor point.  
I have a feeling I'll be seeing this again and again, so a good baseline would be nice to have.


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## Artoomis (Jul 13, 2011)

There is no reasonable way this can work if it is intended to be to climbable.

I think this should be run like a ritual - it takes minutes to get it set up and do it and involves a grapnel, some light cord, rope and some sort of pulley to be able to pull on the light cord to pull the rope up into position until one can finally use it to climb..

Generally not useful in combat.


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## underfoot007ct (Jul 13, 2011)

Artoomis said:


> There is no reasonable way this can work if it is intended to be to climbable.
> 
> I think this should be run like a ritual - it takes minutes to get it set up and do it and involves a grapnel, some light cord, rope and some sort of pulley to be able to pull on the light cord to pull the rope up into position until one can finally use it to climb..
> 
> Generally not useful in combat.




i agree, an arrow weighs a few ounces with a straight wooden shaft. i doubt an arrow could pull a ROPE more than a dozen feet. a knot would simply pull right off the arrow, nothing is there to keep the rope from pulling off. I know we play a fantasy game but real world physics still apply. 

the item being created is like a modern fishing bow, which uses ultra light fishing line and a fishing reel. maybe a large ballista could fire a iron bolt with a loop to tie a rope to might be closer to what the OP wants.


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## MarkB (Jul 13, 2011)

Yeah, I'd say arrow = wrong tool for the job. You'd probably be better off modifying a javelin - basically turning it into a harpoon.


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## Quickleaf (Jul 13, 2011)

http://home.btclick.com/smithandjewell/plumett/

Hey if your character looks that snazzy rocking a stache' and grapple then go for it!


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## OpsKT (Jul 14, 2011)

Agreed with javelin over arrow, but otherwise, there is page 42 and whatever sounds cool to you.


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