# Appropriate vulnerability for Fey?



## msherman (May 14, 2009)

I'm creating a Fey monster with regeneration for my game. What's an appropriate vulnerability to give a fey to turn off the regeneration?


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## LostSoul (May 14, 2009)

Cold iron or silver.

"Cold iron" is just iron.  I wouldn't let steel work.  Something like an iron spike improvised into a weapon would be cool.


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## AbdulAlhazred (May 14, 2009)

Interesting question. It could be fire and/or acid of course, but maybe you'd rather make it a bit more interesting....

Necrotic might be kind of fun and sort of makes sense for a Fey I suppose. Not too many PCs bother to have a way to deal necrotic damage, so it could create a pretty decent problem for them. hehe. Radiant seems a bit too easy. Any of the other types would work though. Most parties can manage to deal out at least some nominal amount of lightning, thunder, cold, etc. even at lower levels.


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## Ryujin (May 14, 2009)

I agree with Lost Soul regarding "cauld iron", as it was referred to in the old stories. It would give reason for all the black iron weapons of the goblins and orcs.


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## fba827 (May 14, 2009)

as mentioned above, legends with fey do mention cold iron as a weakness for fey creatures.

in 4e there isn't weapon material type so that would be something difficult to track.  

What if you expanded it to be "weapon damage" (and if you want to get really specific, "except quarterstaff and club" as the chances of those being made of metal is slim, though not impossible).

So it actually gives a reason to have untyped weapon damage (since all other creatures who do have a vulnerability have it for some specific damage type - so melee basic attacks and martial PCs get to shine)



(okay, not the greatest idea, but it's an idea  )


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## LostSoul (May 14, 2009)

There is precedent: Lycanthropes in the MM have their regen stop working if they're hit with a silvered weapon.

edit: You don't need to make a rule about any more "damage types".  Is the weapon silver or not?  Then it negates regen.  Simple.  The same thing goes with normal weapons (made from steel).  Steel is not cold iron so it doesn't negate the regen.


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## Ryujin (May 14, 2009)

If you want to supplement the idea of cold iron, then also saying that enchantment makes the weapon more compatible with the Fey metabolism would make things interesting. Sure your +3 sword hits better, but your regular dagger does +10 damage. Which do you use?


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## chronoplasm (May 14, 2009)

I'm going to be the odd-man-out here and suggest poison.
Why?
Because poison needs some love.
Tons of monsters are immune to it, but almost nothing is weak against it.


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## msherman (May 14, 2009)

Ryujin said:


> If you want to supplement the idea of cold iron, then also saying that enchantment makes the weapon more compatible with the Fey metabolism would make things interesting. Sure your +3 sword hits better, but your regular dagger does +10 damage. Which do you use?




Ooh, I like that. So "cold iron" is any kind of non-magical metal weapon. Magic weapons, non-magical wood weapons, and claws etc don't work.

Of course, the Cold Iron Weapon enchantment from AV is the exception that proves the rule.


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## Ryujin (May 14, 2009)

msherman said:


> Ooh, I like that. So "cold iron" is any kind of non-magical metal weapon. Magic weapons, non-magical wood weapons, and claws etc don't work.
> 
> Of course, the Cold Iron Weapon enchantment from AV is the exception that proves the rule.




As Christianity rose The Fey were more and more seen as little more than demons, rather than creatures from The Other Side. Perhaps arcane magic is in their blood, but divine magic is anathema?


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## wcpfish (May 14, 2009)

I vote for poison as well.  Fey are typically portrayed as full of vigor and life (bacchanalian revelry and all that).  Hitting them hard with poison seems very appropriate.  

Also, on the cold iron front, be careful as cold iron is magic weapon property (which nails Fey), just as info.


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## Akaiku (May 14, 2009)

You could give then regeneration that's turned off by martial keyword powers. That would be interesting.


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## IanB (May 14, 2009)

It is hard for players to do, but necrotic damage is probably the appropriate 4e choice; the ghaele and bralani from the MM are already vulnerable necrotic.


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## LostSoul (May 15, 2009)

Don't follow the normal damage type stuff.  Make this vulnerability unique.  Put some hints in the adventure that point to the monster's vulnerability (and use the Monster Knowledge DCs).

Maybe one player will figure it out during the game and improvise a weapon to remove its regeneration.  That kind of thing is very rewarding.


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## mach1.9pants (May 15, 2009)

Traditionally cold iron. For me you could play it to ways:
1. Any weapon whose 'damaging part' (sword blade, mace flanges) is iron enough to be counted.
2. Make an alchemical whetstone or other consumable that can be applied to any wep for extra damage.


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## On Puget Sound (May 16, 2009)

Depends on what your intent is.  How easily do you envision the party solving the problem?  Do they need to discover, through research and /or experiment, what the vulnerability is?  If so, it can be anything....ashes from a funeral pyre, tears shed in sorrow, kryptonite.  

Or is the weakness common knowledge, and the party simply needs to make sure they have the item with them?  In that case, cold iron works as well as anything else.  

Or is it something they must discover in the heat of battle, by observation, logic or plain luck?  In that case it should be something they actually do have.  Maybe human(oid)  blood acts as a poison, so they have to first blood the weapon (taking 1 point of damage and using a minor action) before each hit. 

A related question... if you make the weakness hard to discover or costly to acquire, can the party win without it?  Is the choice to use it or not meaningful?  Is there a downside?  If the weakness is well known and plentiful, every adventurer will carry it, and so the regeneration ability becomes a waste of ink, except as backstory.


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## Mentat55 (May 16, 2009)

The ghaele and bralani eladrin in the MM have a vulnerability to necrotic -- it slows them when they take necrotic damage.  

Cold iron would be the traditional choice, to be sure.


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## Starfox (May 16, 2009)

"cold" iron really means cold-forged iron. That is basically anything forged on an open heath, as opposed to cast or made in a furnace. Before 1700 or so, cold iron was basically the only kind of iron around, and definitely the only kind you'd use to make a weapon.

In an agrarian society, almost everything was made by replenishable local materials like wood or clay. Much of the metal goods was softer metals, like copper. Iron was odd and exclusive, for small tools like knives. Many people would not own an iron object. In such a society, iron is a symbol of civilization and human progress - which is the anathema of they fey. It was considered wise to wear a small iron object, like a nail, as a ward against faeries.

How to simulate this in an rpg where everyone sports metal weapons? Actually, I don't think you should. Giving fey a weakness against something this common is not a good idea. Specific fey might have specific weaknesses, but giving them an overall weakness to iron only works in a low-fantasy world where iron is actually scarce - and faeries are banished to the back of the woods.


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## Byronic (May 16, 2009)

We already HAVE cold iron weapons in 4th edition, they're in Adventurers vault. They do more critical damage vs Fey. You could use them as Cold Iron Weapons or you could adjust them. Perhaps have them do twice their bonus vs Fey?

It makes some sense that a Cold Iron weapon would usually be used against Fey (since steel is better for other things) and that one would prepare such weapons well. Especially with enchantments and such.


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## -Avalon- (May 16, 2009)

Historically, mythologically, I agree with Cold Iron...

Logically, and for the most part, I agree with poison.

I personally would go with poison as the other as a material is too common, and as an enchantment already exists...

Poison is very rarely used or taken as a power damage type... Use it.


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## Flipguarder (May 16, 2009)

my first instinct would be to use necrotic, seeming as the raw cosmology pretty clearly dichotomizes shadowfell and feywild. But after reading this, poison makes a whole lot of sense. And many shadowfell monsters use poison (right?). Cold iron is a nice idea lorewise, but having cold iron type of damage gets very messy when dealing with spells (which all energy types should)


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## Tuft (May 17, 2009)

Byronic said:


> We already HAVE cold iron weapons in 4th edition, they're in Adventurers vault. They do more critical damage vs Fey.




Yep, "Cold Iron Weapon", under that very name, AV p. 66.

You also have "Feyslaughter Weapon", AV p. 68.


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## msherman (May 17, 2009)

Thanks for all the ideas, everyone. I've decided to go with Necrotic, because of the Eladrin precedent. I've also added a resistance to Radiant. The party doesn't have an easy way to do necrotic damage, but there is a laser cleric, so they'll notice the radiant resistance pretty quickly, and that should clue them in to try to find a way.


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## Shroomy (May 17, 2009)

You have some pretty good precedent for necrotic vulnerability.  Besides the eladrin that have already been mentioned, firbolgs from MM2 lose their regeneration after they take necrotic damage.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 17, 2009)

I'd go with necrotic, too. It seems to be anethama to free-spirited embodiments of nature and life.  You could still note that Cold Iron weapons have the same effect (but it's unlikely anyone has those lying around.


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## Sebastian Herrington (Jul 1, 2019)

*I suggest making Fey vulnerable to silvered weapons.* Similar to Order of the Lycan Bloodhunters.


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## JustinCase (Jul 1, 2019)

Wooh, now that's thread necromancy right there! 10 years after the last post...


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## Feyfiendmonsterer (Feb 14, 2021)

Surely the point is, MOST people WON'T have cold iron on them at all, and also, many would not even know about this weakness link with Fey creatures and beings, not least as they're unlikely to meet them, and anyway, in most cases, Fey will never be encountered except in the rarest circumstances and when they are, their superior senses and innate magic tends to sniff out mortal beings long before said beings even KNOW there's something watching or stalking them, never mind what it is! By that time the Cold Rider/Nuckelavee/Satyr/Dryad/Korred/Shadow Collector etc. has already probably done its worth. You make it sound like cold iron's so common that this in itself will make all Fey extinct! What rubbish. Fey are virtually immortal and all are tough and for every Fey that dies by whatever cause, surely a 1'000 mortals will fall all over the globe. Fighting them again is also a toss-up. How do you know you'll win. A few successful strikes on a formidable Fey adversary will not fell it before it likely fells you. That's always supposing you've survived intact the many spells it's likely thrown at you first even before you reach it!

Some fey sound easier than others. Dryads, for instance, are tied to specific trees. Chop 'em down and they will die. Also, bludgeoning instruments are deadly to them whereas slashing and piercing virtually do nothing. But you can make things easier. Fairies and all Fey are not able to see non-fey folk if they wear red or their clothes inside out (how that works with armour, one never knows, unless you colour the metal red. Running water is said to disrupt their magic from working successfully (so all bodies of water in Faerun are still?) and certain magic items like a River Stone-a circular or oval stone with an iron ring at its centre ensures no Fey-even Hag or worse can come near you!

Poison is a good idea as a back-up, though I doubt on more Undead-linked Fey (Cold Riders/Nuckelavee/Escorite/Grimstalker) they'd work at all. Fire and "magical-weapons"-without it going into just WHAT the exact enchantment is specifically IN or ON the weapon should work too. But I did hear than any Fey killed away from the Feywild-i.e the Prime World simply reform from scratch in the Feywild, in a sketchy prose now hard to find. Presumably this makes them very Fiend-like, but that does that also not mean that if killed on their own turf, they're dead forever?


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## CapnZapp (Feb 15, 2021)

I think the point is that cold iron is apparently not sufficient to strike down this necroed thread


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