# Hordes of the Underdark



## Dark Jezter (Dec 6, 2003)

Okay, after two solid days of playing, I completed the new Neverwinter Nights expansion pack:  Hordes of the Underdark.

NWN and its expansion packs seem to be getting better over time; the NWN original campaign was good, Shadows of Undrentide (the first expansion pack) was better, and Hordes of the Underdark is absolutely incredible.

This latest expansion pack begins shortly after Shadows of Undrentide, and takes your character on a truly epic journey filled with plot twists, betrayals, and epic battles.  In Chapter 1 of the expansion pack, you travel through Undermountain, the most famous dungeon in Faerun.  In Chapter 2, you get to explore the underdark itself.  As for the third and final Chapter... well, I'm not going to spoil it, but let's just say that it contains lots of unexpected twists and turns.  Additionally, there are several different endings depending on choices you make as you progress through the adventure, giving this expansion pack lots of replayabilty.

In this expansion pack, you'll be encountering dangerous new creatures such as drow, duergar, mind flayers, beholders, and the old D&D standby: The Gelatinous Cube.  You'll also go up against some truely powerful foes including (spoilers ahead) 



Spoiler



a dracolich, a demilich, and even the arch-devil Mephistopholes himself!



To help you take on these challenges, this expansion pack has added the Epic Level Rules to the NWN engine, allowing your character to attain levels as high as 40 and take Epic Feats (when I completed the expansion pack, my character was a Fighter 21/Rogue 5).  The expansion pack also adds prestige classes from various suppliments, including the dwarven defender, weapon master, dragon disciple (red dragon only), divine champion, shifter, and pale master.

Several old friends return in this expansion pack as henchmen, including Tomi Undergallows (halfling rogue/shadowdancer), Linu La'nareal (elf cleric), Daelan Red Tiger (half-orc barbarian), Sharwyn (human bard), and the always-enjoyable Deekin Scalesinger (kobold bard/dragon disciple).  Two brand-new henchmen include a female drow assassin and a male tiefling fighter.  You can also now have two henchmen instead of just one, which will make some of the epic-level enemies easier to take on.

Overall, this expansion pack is a must-own if you are a NWN fan, and I have no regrets about buying it.

So, has anybody else gotten it yet?


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 6, 2003)

I've gotten it, but I'm still at beginning to Chapter 2.  I was actually typing up a mini-review of the game when the boards died this afternoon, this saves me the trouble.  

I think they did some _really_ great stuff with some of the special effects.  The graphics are a little better, but honestly I don't think the increased poly count is all that noticeable unless you have a high-end machine - which I definitely don't.  The toolset has some really nice features that I want to play with, but haven't yet because I'm playing the game first.

My main character from SoU is a Bard 8/Arcane Archer 4.  I elected not to play one of the modules bridging SoU and HotU (see NWVault) and so started at level 12.  Big mistake, especially for a sub-optimal build like mine.  So I raised my level to 15 (8/7), which is the suggested starting point for the game, and also the level you will be boosted to if you start with a character under level 12.

As for henchmen, I decided to use Deekin and Sharwyn.  Which set up an interesting situation - all three of us are Bards in some form another.  Deekin I told to advance solely as a Red Dragon Disciple, because I'm not really overly fond of the Bard's spell list in NWN.  Sharwyn I left alternating between Bard and Fighter.  All of us were using ranged weapons, and it actually worked so surprisingly well I decided to keep Sharwyn (I was originally going to grab Daelan or Linu).  Plus, the banter between Sharwyn and Deekin is hilarious, so that was a bonus.

One random comment - I'm a little disappointed in the Arcane Archer's epic levels.  They pretty much get nothing but better versions of Enhance Arrows - I was hoping there might be some different Imbue abilities at the higher levels, but it was not to be.  The only other thing they do get is bonus damage to Imbue Arrow - +1d6 every two levels.  Bleh.  Ah well, gives me a chance to work on my Bard abilities.

The story through Chapter One is pretty straight-forward.  There are puzzles, there's exploration, but pretty much it's just a straight dungeon-crawl.  Though it wasn't a terribly boring one, that's what it is.  It started to pick up a bit toward the end though.  

On the treasure side, there's a nice variety of items, though it seems there's a bunch of Monk and Bard items - the latter perhaps because I am a Bard, but the Monk item thing has been an issue throughout all three games, IMO.  Nevertheless, I've found a few interesting items for Druids, Monks, and Wiz/Sors, and into Chapter 2 some items for Clerics, Shadowdancers, and Assassins.  I haven't found anything that really benefits any of the fighting classes though.  Overall the variety is definitely better than SoU (which was mostly armor), though I haven't found any neat rings - just the standard stuff.

Also, I bought the Lich's Lyrics, a special item for Bard that uses you Bard Song to cause a Horrid Wilting.  It works great for my character, since Deekin is a _much_ better Bard than I.  I'm also looking to buy two pieces of equipment specifically for Arcane Archers - a bow with unlimited Fire Arrows (+1d6 Fire damage) and a suit of armor I don't recall the specifics of.

One slightly annoying thing was that Staves now have to be equipped to be used - makes my Staff of Power fairly useless now, since I'm not going to want to have my Bow out of hand in the middle of combat.  Though it makes sense that it works this way.  Still, I was relying on Wands and Staves for my meager magic power.

I also took Craft Wand, to play around with.  Now, the fact that you can craft something, and more importantly give an item your caster level is great, especially for custom content makers - no more having to make seperate item properties if you want a stronger or weaker wand.  But as a player, I find it sorely lacking.  You get 1d20+CL charges on the wand, instead of 50 (bleh), you can't cast spells from scrolls to enchant wands (or any magical item... bleh), and you still pay the full XP and GP.  _Very_ sub-par.  Hopefully it can be changed.

The game is actually fairly easy, though I did die at one point, which is actually a really amusing story.  It's starting to get a bit more difficult in Chapter Two, but nothing that I can't really handle.  I've found that I hardly ever rest now though, between potions and healing kits, and a variety of items, I can go for a good couple of hours of playing without needing to rest - a good thing, IMO.

Finally, I've ran into a couple of bugs.  The big one is (spoiler for Chapter One, but not big) 



Spoiler



when I found Tomi and revived him, the conversation would mess up if my henchmen weren't close enough (since they have lines).  The first time this resulted in some goofy behavior from Sharwyn, where she left my party, rejoined eventually, but then wouldn't do anything.


  Also, I couldn't take any of the item crafting feats unless I took a level in a spellcasting class, even though I already had eight levels of Bard.


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 6, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I think they did some really great stuff with some of the special effects. The graphics are a little better, but honestly I don't think the increased poly count is all that noticeable unless you have a high-end machine - which I definitely don't. The toolset has some really nice features that I want to play with, but haven't yet because I'm playing the game first.




I don't think the higher-polygon models are that noticable unless you zoom-in very close to the action.  I did notice that the models look a little nicer than they used to when you look at them up-close.



> My main character from SoU is a Bard 8/Arcane Archer 4.  I elected not to play one of the modules bridging SoU and HotU (see NWVault) and so started at level 12.  Big mistake, especially for a sub-optimal build like mine.  So I raised my level to 15 (8/7), which is the suggested starting point for the game, and also the level you will be boosted to if you start with a character under level 12.




I didn't play any of the "bridging modules" either, and so I began HotU as a level 12 character (Fighter 10/Rogue 2).  Even though my character was 3 levels lower than he was supposed to be, I still didn't run into anything I couldn't handle.

Then again, I've noticed that melee-types usually have an easier time in NWN than ranged attackers, since combat in NWN tends to be up-close and personal.



> One slightly annoying thing was that Staves now have to be equipped to be used - makes my Staff of Power fairly useless now, since I'm not going to want to have my Bow out of hand in the middle of combat. Though it makes sense that it works this way. Still, I was relying on Wands and Staves for my meager magic power.




I think that applies to all magic items, and not just staves; I was unable to use ring and amulet special abilites unless I was wearing them.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 6, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> I didn't play any of the "bridging modules" either, and so I began HotU as a level 12 character (Fighter 10/Rogue 2). Even though my character was 3 levels lower than he was supposed to be, I still didn't run into anything I couldn't handle.
> 
> Then again, I've noticed that melee-types usually have an easier time in NWN than ranged attackers, since combat in NWN tends to be up-close and personal.



Yeah, I agree completely. Like I said, it's a sub-optimal build, especially given the game, and Arcane Archer isn't exactly a great class anyway (in PnP). My Bard spells are for the most part useless - I'm getting decent use out of Haste and Dispel Magic, and the Lich's Lyrics are _great_ for when enemies gather around me. Still, I never use Bard Song (Deekin) and I don't have a high enough caster level to get through most creatures' defenses. With a high Dex (I'm around 26 or so right now) I have a pretty good AC, but I still can't take very much punishment... my HP are terrible. I can dish out a ton of damage from range though. Luckily I (Ch. 2 spoiler) 



Spoiler



have the tiefling henchman right now, and his 300 HP are much better for soaking stuff than my 150. And I love watching him smash doors I can't open. 


 
Of course, contributing to these feelings is the fact that (another Ch. 2 spoiler) 



Spoiler



I just got done with the Maker's Island, and those golems literally tore me a new one. The clay and iron golems, and the minogons weren't bad, but the demon flesh golem and the greater minogons just tore through me. I managed to take out the mithral golems with the Golem Crasher, but the demi-lich I didn't have a chance against. Though I got my 11th level of Arcane Archer, so I'm hoping my arrows will be able to pierce the damage reduction now.


 So I'm a bit demoralized. Still at the other similar place I cleaned up no problem... bodes poorly for the drow.



> I think that applies to all magic items, and not just staves; I was unable to use ring and amulet special abilites unless I was wearing them.



Yeah, which also makes sense. I don't disagree with it at all, but it was kind of bleh because it limited my Bard's magical firepower a bit. Luckily there are plenty of non-staff items to use, and I have a Wand of Fire, so it's all good. 

I've already got some ideas about how to play through the game again, if I do. My main one is to go Paladin, then pick up Champion of Torm for a couple of levels, then alternate between that and Weapon Master. My other plan is to play through as a Wizard/Pale Master or Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. I've not once played a spell-caster in any of the NWN games, or in any fan-made module. I must say I'm a bit reluctant to do it - it's not particularly my forte. I'll definitely be taking Craft Wand and Scribe Scroll for that character. One of these I'll probably take through at level 40, just for the experience of such a high level character. Probably the melee guy, since I played a Paladin in the first story, for what little I could get through it.

I will agree with you though, this is definitely the best official campaign yet.


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 6, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I've already got some ideas about how to play through the game again, if I do. My main one is to go Paladin, then pick up Champion of Torm for a couple of levels, then alternate between that and Weapon Master. My other plan is to play through as a Wizard/Pale Master or Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. I've not once played a spell-caster in any of the NWN games, or in any fan-made module. I must say I'm a bit reluctant to do it - it's not particularly my forte. I'll definitely be taking Craft Wand and Scribe Scroll for that character. One of these I'll probably take through at level 40, just for the experience of such a high level character. Probably the melee guy, since I played a Paladin in the first story, for what little I could get through it.




I've already started playing through HotU again as a Neutral Evil female human Rogue/Assassin.  I'm also thinking about taking levels in Shadowdancer.

My first character was Lawful Good and acted as such, so I'm interested to see how differently HotU plays out with an evil characer. 



> I will agree with you though, this is definitely the best official campaign yet.




Without question.  If this proves to be the final NWN expansion pack, then at least they ended on a high note.  But if this _isn't_ the final expansion pack, then the developers will have their work cut out for them trying to top HotU.

I'm also excited to see some of the modules that the NWN custom content community puts out using the features found in HotU.


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## caudor (Dec 6, 2003)

You guys make me feel like such a slacker.  I've bought all the expansions, but I'm still working on Neverwinter Nights (yep, the first one).

I'm slow I guess (but I also tend to get sucked away for long period in MMORPGs),  but at least I got alot of play to look forward to.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 6, 2003)

caudor said:
			
		

> You guys make me feel like such a slacker. I've bought all the expansions, but I'm still working on Neverwinter Nights (yep, the first one).
> 
> I'm slow I guess (but I also tend to get sucked away for long period in MMORPGs),  but at least I got alot of play to look forward to.



Just a note, are you enjoying the first story?  If not, I would suggest just skipping it and moving on to SoU.  You're not really missing out on much, IMO.  I found the first game to be terribly boring, just a bunch of strewn together fetch-quests.  So much so that I got through the second chapter and stoped playing.  SoU and HotU are sooo much better story-wise.


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## Dreeble (Dec 7, 2003)

Heya:

 Question on henchman available in Chapter 2: 



Spoiler



Is Deekin the only henchman from Chapter 1 that's available in Chapter 2?  The tiefling is okay, but I really wanted to keep Linu since she's got a great personality and voice and a high level cleric would be more useful to me.  Any way I can get her back?  I tried Repearing back to Waterdeep, but my bound portal didn't seem to work anymore.



Thanks,
Dreeble


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 7, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Just a note, are you enjoying the first story?  If not, I would suggest just skipping it and moving on to SoU.  You're not really missing out on much, IMO.  I found the first game to be terribly boring, just a bunch of strewn together fetch-quests.  So much so that I got through the second chapter and stoped playing.  SoU and HotU are sooo much better story-wise.




Actually, I would recommend playing through the NWN original campaign because a few quests in Chapter 3 of HotU are related to events that happened in Neverwinter Nights.



			
				Dreeble said:
			
		

> Heya:
> 
> Question on henchman available in Chapter 2:
> 
> ...






Spoiler



Deekin is the only henchman from Chapter 1 who will accompany you to Chapter 2.  So it looks like you'll have to fill in your second henchman spot with either Valen or Nathyrra.


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## caudor (Dec 7, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Just a note, are you enjoying the first story?  If not, I would suggest just skipping it and moving on to SoU.  You're not really missing out on much, IMO.  I found the first game to be terribly boring, just a bunch of strewn together fetch-quests.  So much so that I got through the second chapter and stoped playing.  SoU and HotU are sooo much better story-wise.




Overall, I'm really enjoying the first story (of course, I've been told I'm easily amused).  Regardless, it is exciting to know it gets better in the latter two expansions as well.

Which brings up a question I've been meaning to toss out there.  Are any of the expansions using the 3.5 rules, or if not, is there any talk of a 3.5 version of Neverwinter Nights?  Just curious.


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 7, 2003)

caudor said:
			
		

> Which brings up a question I've been meaning to toss out there.  Are any of the expansions using the 3.5 rules, or if not, is there any talk of a 3.5 version of Neverwinter Nights?  Just curious.




Changing NWN to the 3.5e rules via patch or expansion pack would be a very difficult to do, and would make saved game files and many modules obsolete.  The NWN developers have stated many times that they have no plans to update NWN to the 3.5e rules.

So, I highly doubt we'll be seeing NWN 3.5e in anything short of a full-fledged sequel.


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## caudor (Dec 7, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Changing NWN to the 3.5e rules via patch or expansion pack would be a very difficult to do, and would make saved game files and many modules obsolete.  The NWN developers have stated many times that they have no plans to update NWN to the 3.5e rules.
> 
> So, I highly doubt we'll be seeing NWN 3.5e in anything short of a full-fledged sequel.




That's kinda what I expected.  I've got enough to keep me busy for a while.

Speaking of that sequel, it would be cool if they did something like Baldur's Gate III or Neverwinter Nights II.  Although I suspect the 'next big thing' will somehow be based on the new world coming, I think it is called Eberon.


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## KenM (Dec 7, 2003)

Picked up the expansion the day it came out, a little ways into the second chapter, one thing I really did not like was : 



Spoiler



At the end of chapter one, the wizard you rescue puts a geas on you  and railroads you into chapter 2. Its in a cut scene and there is nothing you can do about it. I really had being railroaded like that in video games. If I run into the wizard again, I will kill him for doing that to my character. If I can't kill him, I will go into the toolset and change it so you can kill him.


 other then that, I think its a great expansion and they put alot of great stuff in it.


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 7, 2003)

caudor said:
			
		

> That's kinda what I expected.  I've got enough to keep me busy for a while.
> 
> Speaking of that sequel, it would be cool if they did something like Baldur's Gate III or Neverwinter Nights II.  Although I suspect the 'next big thing' will somehow be based on the new world coming, I think it is called Eberon.




Baldur's Gate III was in production, but it has been postponed indefinately, and will likely never see the light of day.

The upcoming MMORPG _Dugeons & Dragons Online_ uses the Eberron campaign setting.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 7, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Actually, I would recommend playing through the NWN original campaign because a few quests in Chapter 3 of HotU are related to events that happened in Neverwinter Nights.



Ahhhh, I think I know how that's going to relate.  I know the general story of the first campaign, I just couldn't bring myself to slog through it before, and I know I won't now considering all the improvements in the sequels.

Well then though, do the first campaign.

ON a note for Jezter, (NWN OC spoiler) 



Spoiler



It has to do with Aribeth's redemption, doesn't it?  In which case, it doesn't really make sense for my character to even know about her, but whatever.


 


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Deekin is the only henchman from Chapter 1 who will accompany you to Chapter 2. So it looks like you'll have to fill in your second henchman spot with either Valen or Nathyrra.





Spoiler



Yes, I was very happy to have Deekin.  I'm assuming if Deekin doesn't come along in Chapter 1, you can't use him in Chapter 2, right?


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 7, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> ON a note for Jezter, (NWN OC spoiler)
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Spoiler



Well, if you really want to know... It does involve Aribeth.  She is available as a henchman (although I passed her up for Deekin and Nathyrra).  The game assumes that rumors of Aribeth's betrayal reached the ears of your character, even though the character in SoU/HotU never met her before.


 


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I was very happy to have Deekin.  I'm assuming if Deekin doesn't come along in Chapter 1, you can't use him in Chapter 2, right?




I'm not sure about this one.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Dec 7, 2003)

Is SoU necessary to use HoU?  The OC soured me on NWN (I've played a number of user mods since that were good, but overall I've preferred party-based games like ToEE -- I only play in single-player mode).  HoU looks interesting, and I'm tempted to pick it up, but probably won't if I have to purchase both expansions to make it work.


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## KenM (Dec 7, 2003)

No, you don't need SoU to play HotU. But the OC in hotU is kind of a continuation of the SoU OC. Those modules are alot better then the NWN OC. If you don't have SoU, you just don't have access to the stuff from it. Now it's gonna get more complicated. They will have: 1. Modules that just use NWN. 2. Modules that use NWN and SoU. 3. Modules that use NWN and just HotU. 4. Modules that use NWN, SoU, and HotU.


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## Azlan (Dec 7, 2003)

I'm interested in this expansion, but mostly (if not entirely) from a DM's and designer's perspective.

I am heavily into designing modules for Neverwinter Nights, and then DM'ing them through weekly multi-player sessions. I have an on-line campaign that's been going on for about a year now, called "Doombreather's Challenge". This is about the fourth time I've run this campaign.

How much and what type of new content is in the "Underdark" expansion, content that a mod designer can make use of? How does this new expansion compare in designer-content to the first expansion?


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 7, 2003)

Azlan said:
			
		

> How much and what type of new content is in the "Underdark" expansion, content that a mod designer can make use of? How does this new expansion compare in designer-content to the first expansion?



Well, you can check out http://nwvault.ign.com/index2.shtml for lots of information, but in a nutshell... lots, and IMO loads better than the stuff from SoU. 

The henchman system has been reworked a bit, supporting multiple henchmen (the number can be set with a simple scripting command). You also have _slightly_ better control over what they do, but they still act on their own. Also, when henchmen level up you can specify an advancement table no matter what class they take - so if you want your henchman to take different feats depending on what class it's going up in, you can specify that exactly (as opposed to only one custom one, or being stuck with the class defaults).

You can define a user-made talktable (but only one per module), allowing the addition of flavor text to any custom feats, spells, and so on that you want to make.

Class-wise, you can specify a prestige class to gain "+1 caster level", the example in the game being the Pale Master. You can only do regular progressions (every level, every other, every third), not some of the irregular ones. This can be specified for arcane and divine, so in theory you could make a Mystic Theurge type class easily enough. Also, bonus feats (like the fighter's) are now defined in a seperate table (cls_bfeat_*), able to be changed if you so desire.

Items have a new property, OnHitCastSpell. It lets you specify a spell that will be cast when you strike (weapon) or are struck (armor). This means almost total flexibility with regards to weapon and armor properties. There are also several module-level events added - OnAcquireItem, OnEquipItem, OnUnAcquireItems, OnUnEquipItem. They also provide some scripts that let you handle all of these in one script, with the same name as the tag of the item. It's not very well documented, I had to play around in some of the files to find it, and strangely I don't think HotU uses it.

Epic-level rules, PCs can go to level 40 and NPCs to level 60. Six new prestige classes (Champion of Torm, Weapon Master, Pale Master, Dwarven Defender, Shifter, Dragon Disciple). Robes. Oozes. An incredibly more functional merchant system. New spells, new weapons (whip and dwarven axe), new heads, new armors. Armor dyes. Item Creation feats, five new tilesets.

I'm probably missing some stuff. I've been mostly playing the game more than tinkering.


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 8, 2003)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> Is SoU necessary to use HoU?  The OC soured me on NWN (I've played a number of user mods since that were good, but overall I've preferred party-based games like ToEE -- I only play in single-player mode).  HoU looks interesting, and I'm tempted to pick it up, but probably won't if I have to purchase both expansions to make it work.




If you have HotU but don't have SoU, then you won't have access to the SoU prestige classes (Assassin, Arcane Archer, Blackguard, Harper Scout, and Shadowdancer).  You also won't be able to use modules that feature the tilesets or monsters found in SoU.

I would recommend playing SoU, though.  The storyline in SoU is more enjoyable than the OC, and HotU is a continuation of the storyline in SoU.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 11, 2003)

Alright, I'm on Chapter Three, and I can't go any farther, and I need some help.  Spoilers-ahoy!



Spoiler



I'm trying to get the fourth-fold answer for the Sensei.  Now, I killed Arden Swift, because Valen didn't trust him and he was irking me.  I can get the fourth-fold answer from the tome, but I can't read it while the Sensei is paying attention.  So I killed her.  Well, for one thing I can't open the door - when I open the lock, it still gives me the message I have to wait for her to be distracted.  Great, she's dead, apparently that's not distracted enough.  I also can't take the amulet off of her body.

So my only option is to distract her somehow.  And I have no clue how.


 
Any help would be greatly appreciated, because due to the "bug" mentioned above, I literally can not continue with Chapter Three, and I'd prefer not to have to do the chapter over, even though I only did the two other quests, 



Spoiler



Redeeming Aribeth (that was the huge part of Chapter Three?  Come on, you don't need to play NWN for that! ) and fixing the grinder for Gru'ul


.


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 11, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Alright, I'm on Chapter Three, and I can't go any farther, and I need some help.  Spoilers-ahoy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As far as I know, you're screwed.  



Spoiler



I believe that the Sensei still needs to be alive when you meet with the sleeping man.



So, it looks like you'll have to start chapter 3 over again.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 11, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> As far as I know, you're screwed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, I have a save before I killed her!    For one it wouldn't be in character, and for two I was more taking my frustrations out on her.

I've checked the Bioware boards, and apparently she goes to meditate at some point so you can read the book (or pick the door).  I was hoping someone here might know, because those boards bother me, and because they're gonna be down tomorrow, so not much time for an answer.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 12, 2003)

Alright, now I'm just starting to get ticked off.

I had a save after I had bought a bunch of equipment (hint, save as much stuff from Chapter 2 as you can, and sell it in Chapter 3).  Only needed to do one quest and the mysteries.  Took all of five minutes.

And about half an hour later, I hit another scripting bug. 

For those interested, it's when 



Spoiler



you're in the fringe of the Blood War, and you beat down all those pathetically easy devil soldiers.


  Well, the guy I'm supposed to kill doesn't spawn.  So I try again, after taking a break.  Hey, he still doesn't spawn.  Turns out the error has to do with quick-saves, which I've been doing every area _specifically_ because of the bugs.  Great, I have to go all the way back from the last autosave, three areas ago.

Now, I can forgive scripting errors that don't affect the progress of the game much (although the one in Chapter 2 



Spoiler



where you can't finish all the optional missions before the battle starts


 is pretty bad).  But this is rediculous.  Did Bioware test this at all?  I mean, these are serious issues that _should_ have come up during internal testing.  And bollocks on anyone that calls the Chapter 2 bug a "feature" - it's far from the only one in the chapter.

This is just completely infuriating.  At the rate I've been playing, I should probably have been near the end of the game right about now.  Instead I've spent today getting screwed over by scripting bugs.  _Not_ a fun experience, let me tell you.

Patch 1.60 is supposed to come out the week of the 15th, possibly as early as Monday.  I can't wait.


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 12, 2003)

Ouch, LightPhoenix.  I guess I should count myself fortunate that I didn't hit any of these bugs.

In fact, I'm currently playing through HotU for a third time as a gnomish wizard.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 12, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Ouch, LightPhoenix. I guess I should count myself fortunate that I didn't hit any of these bugs.
> 
> In fact, I'm not playing through HotU for a third time as a gnomish wizard.



Yeah, so as not to bias anyone against buying the game, I've run into an _extrordinary_ amount of bugs.  Most people I've read about only run into one or two, but I think I've managed to run into pretty much every major one.  

For the record, I managed a few workarounds for Chapter 2.  Read if you want, but this contains spoilers.



Spoiler



So normally you end up only being able to do four quests before the Valsharess attacks.  I _suspect_ the problem is a bug with the Illithid quest, which has quite a few bugs in it.  After you complete this quest, the Valsharess attacks.

Both workarounds require the Relic of the Reaper, as well as Rogue Stones.  The game isn't too difficult, and there are plenty - you should have around 10 or so in Chapter 2.

One - if you can't enter the Elder Brain's room without being teleported to the "mind realm", and you've already beaten all the monsters.  This happens when you betray the Elder Brain.  Create a Binding with the RotR and then get teleported.  Use the RotR to leave, and go back to your Binding.  That will have triggered the... er, trigger, which only activates once and then is destroyed.  You should be able to enter the room easily.

Two - you can't get back into the Drow city after the Valsharess attacks.  Again, I _think_ this is caused by completing the Illithid quest.  Again, create a Binding in the city before you leave.  *DO NOT* place it in the Temple of Lloth, because the Seer will corner you and automatically start the battle.  Use the Relic whenever you need to get back into town.

Three - you can't talk to the girl you rescue from the Slave Pens.  Caused by the above.  Also note I've had my henchmen wig out and kill her as soon as I save her.  Valen has issues, apparently.    She's in the Seer's room, so as soon as you get there, pause the game, find the girl, click on her to initiate dialogue, unpause.  _Hopefully_ you can reach her in time to complete the quest, earning you 500 experience.  You won't get to read the dialogue.


 
The ones in Chapter 3 are a little trickier.  I've had to re-load both times (and still haven't tried the second one for the third time).  I'll be able to provide workarounds for both instances once I beat the game and unlock the third chapter for editting, unless someone wants to give me the codeword.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 12, 2003)

Alright, it appears that my most recent save, the auto save, and the quick save all will not spawn the creature.

My last save is right where I started before the first bug.

I'm not playing through the entire chapter again.

So, if someone who has beaten the game (I'm look at you Jezter ) could look in their nwnplayer.ini file and tell me the codeword for XP2, I'd be much obliged. I'm just giong to spawn the guy in manually in-game and hope that fixes things. Otherwise, I'm just going to manually set the variables necessary.

This is _so_ completely frustrating, and it's completely turned me off the game now. I think I'm gonna have to go back and finish Mario & Luigi or FFTA.

[EDIT] Nevermind, I got it off of GameFAQs.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 13, 2003)

Just because I feel like updating on my progress.

It turns out the baddie is already on the map, so a quick dm_jumptopoint later, I kicked it hard in the groin and moved on with the game.



Spoiler



Valen is a bastard.  I had to use his True Name to force him to fight for me.  Well, or a Dominate Monster, but I only have one scroll.


 
Now, to top off my entire experience with the game - I ran into a bug fighting Big Bad.  I mean, really, this is just indicative of my experience with the game - shoddy scripting just ruining the experience for me.  After whaling on BB for about twenty minutes and doing, oh, around 3000 damage, nothing happens, and BB's at Near Death for about 15 or so minutes of that.

Apparently, there's problems with BB not being able to get off a critical cutscene, thus furthering the battle.  Apparently my henchmen and I are just too quick, because I interrupt the start of the cutscene.  I now have to do some complicated routine which involves luring BB away from henchies just so I can control the rate of damage done so I can actually finish the bloody battle.

Great.  

You know, when I first started playing this game, I was really excited - I had maybe three builds I wanted to try in addition to my guy from SoU.  Now I'm finding it really hard to even sit down and play the game at all.  I don't know, maybe it's because my system is closer to Minimum Requirements than Recommended.  Except other people have been having these problems too, and they're definitely scripting problems.  I'm just extremely discouraged.


----------



## annadobritt (Dec 13, 2003)

What are all these bugs people say they run into?  I received the game this past Monday, resisted the temptation to start playing for a whole hour, then proceded to play until 6am.

Finally got a chance to play again yesterday and took six tries to kill the final nasty (with great help from Deekin  ).

The only bug I came across was a drow chest.  When I started removing items from it, the game crashed.  That's the only problem I had with the game.  

Only complaint is after you kill the final nasty.  The ending is a bit lame to me.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 14, 2003)

annadobritt said:
			
		

> What are all these bugs people say they run into? I received the game this past Monday, resisted the temptation to start playing for a whole hour, then proceded to play until 6am.
> 
> Finally got a chance to play again yesterday and took six tries to kill the final nasty (with great help from Deekin  ).
> 
> ...



I hate you.  

I've outlined the majority of the major bugs I've run into above.  Again, I seem to just be getting unlucky.  After six tries, I still haven't been able to get him dead.  The problem (after poking around the toolset) is that they made Big Bad "Immortal" - that is, you can damage but not kill him.  After set amounts of damage 



Spoiler



he flies away and summons stuff


 but you can interrupt that, especially in situations like mine where my guys are dealing heavy damage in short amounts of time, and like I (sort of) said, on a system closer to minimum than recommended.

The fix to this is simple - just uncheck the Immortal box, because there's no good reason to have it on.  If my guys can take out Big Bad fast enough that he can't get off his mojo, well boo-sucks for him.

Other bugs have also been scripting related - I mentioned several in Chapter 2, as well as one in Chapter 3.  The only one I'm not sure is scripting related is 



Spoiler



the final guardian of the path appearing in the Windswept Battleground


, which I suspect is a combination of my computer's less than optimal specs and poor scripting (it seems to be skipping the heartbeat event which moves the enemy).


----------



## Asmo (Dec 14, 2003)

First of all I want to say that I like Neverwinter nights and Shadows of Undrentide. I bought Hordes of the Underdark in hope that it would give me many hours of nice gameplay. Directly after the installation (wich worked amazingly well) my problems started: a lot of characters portraits is missing. I load a game from from SOU and several character portraits are missing there also.
Ok.. I start to build my charachter, I´m planning to make a Cleric. I level him up manually, but EVERYTIME the game crashes and I´m kicked out of the game. So I´ve not been able to play a second of this game   
My comp can handle NWN and SOU, so it should be able to handle HOTU.

So I´m planning to run my 12 level druid from SOU. I can´t figure out how to transfer him over from SOU to HOTU?
The manual clearly says that you can do this without telling how to do this.

I´m reading the official boards over at Bioware and it seems that ALOT of people have big problems with the game, not only me.
I eagery await some patch who fixes all these issues mentioned on the boards (including my problem with the crash during the building of the character).

Asmo


----------



## KenM (Dec 14, 2003)

I need help, i'm in Chapter 2 and the Mithril Golems keep kicking my butt.  I also can't unlock/ open a door in that same area that you should be able to get into. My Rogue henchmen does not try pick the lock, and I can't bash it. I posted on the offical boards but not having any help.


----------



## luckystrike23 (Dec 14, 2003)

ok i just got the game and i gotta know, am i gonna get my gear back?


----------



## KenM (Dec 14, 2003)

luckystrike23 said:
			
		

> ok i just got the game and i gotta know, am i gonna get my gear back?




   I have found stuff better then my old stuff. I really hated that you loose all your gear. Really sucked for fighters.


----------



## luckystrike23 (Dec 14, 2003)

KenM said:
			
		

> I have found stuff better then my old stuff. I really hated that you loose all your gear. Really sucked for fighters.




nice to see that even game developers aren't above the cheesiest of heavy handed dm tricks.

Really, why import a character you spent time leveling up and equipping when you can make a new character to be stripped of his belongings.


----------



## gfunk (Dec 14, 2003)

luckystrike23 said:
			
		

> Really, why import a character you spent time leveling up and equipping when you can make a new character to be stripped of his belongings.



Yep, they used to pull those shenanigans in the old SSI Gold Box games with Pools of Darkness being the sole exception.


----------



## Dark Jezter (Dec 14, 2003)

luckystrike23 said:
			
		

> ok i just got the game and i gotta know, am i gonna get my gear back?




Yes.  



Spoiler



Towards the end of chapter 1, there is a box containing all of the gear that was stolen from you at the start of the game.


----------



## Len (Dec 15, 2003)

KenM said:
			
		

> I need help, i'm in Chapter 2 and the Mithril Golems keep kicking my butt.  I also can't unlock/ open a door in that same area that you should be able to get into. My Rogue henchmen does not try pick the lock, and I can't bash it. I posted on the offical boards but not having any help.



There's a bunch of hints for beating the mithral golems on the NWN boards - Click here.

As for the locked door, I couldn't open it either (if it's the one I think it is).


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 15, 2003)

Asmo said:
			
		

> So I´m planning to run my 12 level druid from SOU. I can´t figure out how to transfer him over from SOU to HOTU?
> The manual clearly says that you can do this without telling how to do this.



Choose HotU, and then choose Load Character and look for your Druid.  SoU should have saved a copy of him right before the end movie.



> I´m reading the official boards over at Bioware and it seems that ALOT of people have big problems with the game, not only me.
> I eagery await some patch who fixes all these issues mentioned on the boards (including my problem with the crash during the building of the character).



Preaching to the choir! 

That said, the 1.60 patch is scheduled to come out this week, possibly as early as tomorrow.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 15, 2003)

KenM said:
			
		

> I need help, i'm in Chapter 2 and the Mithril Golems keep kicking my butt.



The easiest way to beat them, IMO, is to use the item you can make that will damage constructs.  It'll work on the Mithril Golems as well.  I was able to destroy both of them using up all my charges.



> I also can't unlock/ open a door in that same area that you should be able to get into. My Rogue henchmen does not try pick the lock, and I can't bash it. I posted on the offical boards but not having any help.



If your henchman isn't picking the lock, it means that he/she can't do it - no possibility of success.

The only ways to open that door I know of are to be a high-level Rogue or a Druid (talk to one of the rats).


----------



## KenM (Dec 15, 2003)

Where/ how do I make items? I found the guy in the drow city that can enchent stuff for you. I'm running a fighter, with the female drow henchmen and the tiefling henchmen. Looks like I'm SOL getting through the door.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 15, 2003)

KenM said:
			
		

> Where/ how do I make items? I found the guy in the drow city that can enchent stuff for you. I'm running a fighter, with the female drow henchmen and the tiefling henchmen. Looks like I'm SOL getting through the door.



Just to clarify, which door?  



Spoiler



There's one right in the beginning of the Maker's dungeon, which you can't open from the one side.  There's one on the second floor, in the big middle room.  You need to be a high-level Rogue or a Druid to open that door.


 
As for the item I mentioned, 



Spoiler



you can only make it in the dungeon.  There's a book that describes how to combine components.  This book and the components are all found on the first floor.  Combine two Blue Powder and a Mithril thingee (I forget what it's called) in one of the Alchemist's Apparati to get the Golem Crasher.  Then just use it on the mithril golems.


----------



## KenM (Dec 15, 2003)

Spoiler



The door to the right when you go into the makers Dungeon


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 15, 2003)

KenM said:
			
		

> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The door to the right when you go into the makers Dungeon



Ah, that door you can't open from that side.  You have to open it from the other - it's basically a quick escape from the bottom of the dungeon.


----------



## KenM (Dec 15, 2003)

I finally made it past the golems thanks to your help, but. 



Spoiler



the demi lich is kicking my ass. I'm getting really frustrated, two almost impossble fights in a row.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 15, 2003)

KenM said:
			
		

> I finally made it past the golems thanks to your help, but.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here I can't help you.  I had to come back later and do it.  



Spoiler



I just couldn't get past the damage reduction at all.  What I did was trigger the attack, run off and use an Invisibility Potion on myself, looted the room (with a Wand of Fire to open annoying chests), and then left.  After I had gained a couple of levels both me and Valen were able to get through his defenses.  If you can spare one, a Mordenkainen's Disjunction might be useful too, but I haven't tried it (that'll be my next playthrough, I decided on a Wizard/PM).


----------



## Iron_Chef (Dec 17, 2003)

THIS IS A LATE NIGHT/LOW CAFFEINE RANT! 
Please forgive the simplistic, redundant antagonism of my tone and grammar. I just had to take a break from playing the game and get this off my chest.  

Is it just me, or does anyone else think the storyline for HotUD is completely uninspired, and the adventure design both boring and frustrating? If I wanted to solve stupid puzzles, I'd play Myst or 7th Guest. I hate puzzles! Like in Resident Evil, I just want to kill zombies, not monkey around with pulling levers and pushing buttons in puzzles so ridiculously hard you need a strategy guide to figure them out.

I kind of enjoyed the original NWN (the story got pretty crappy toward the end with Aribeth inexplicably turning evil). I passed on the Shadows expansion pack cuz everyone at the game shop and at Amazon said it was crap and too easy. I get Hordes, hearing how much better it's supposed to be, and then am super-pissed to find out they won't let me play certain prestige classes (assassin, blackguard, shadowdancer, etc.) because I didn't buy their crummy Shadows or NWN Gold. That stinks! They got enough of my money already on the original NWN and now with Hordes, that's $80+. It's a cheap rip-off to get you to buy the game all over again (NWN Gold) so they can milk you for another $30.

Then in Hordes, I can't just easily create the character I want from scratch, I have to use their awful prebuilt characters, and what is up with that point buy nonsense? I want to reroll my stats like in BG or ToEE until I have practically all 18s, not play some 28 point buy weeny, LOL. 

And the rules are so badly translated, it's not like playing D&D at all. Maybe I'm spoiled after ToEE's near-exactitude to the real PnP rules, but I find it endlessly frustrating that things aren't the way they are in the rules I have memorized and at my fingertips in the core books! Granted, it's been a year since I played NWN, and I completely forgot about its shoddy rules interpretation. Some of its interpretations are logical improvements over the core rules (Toughness granting 1 extra hit point/level, retroactively, for example), but mostly, it's just weird and confusing and makes it harder to know the consequences of making certain character choices intuitively.

I tried playing Hordes for hours and hours today and found myself getting repeatedly killed by stupid goblins casting ice storm and fireball over and over, going back and forth through all the same looking rooms and corridors unable to solve puzzles or open/bash chests/doors. It wasn't all that much fun. I'm totally stuck now in the gargoyles shooting laser beams/skeleton bomb room. I can't believe how irritating this game is.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 17, 2003)

Iron_Chef said:
			
		

> THIS IS A LATE NIGHT/LOW CAFFEINE RANT!
> Is it just me, or does anyone else think the storyline for HotUD is completely uninspired, and the adventure design both boring and frustrating? If I wanted to solve stupid puzzles, I'd play Myst or 7th Guest. I hate puzzles! Like in Resident Evil, I just want to kill zombies, not monkey around with pulling levers and pushing buttons in puzzles so ridiculously hard you need a strategy guide to figure them out.
> 
> I kind of enjoyed the original NWN (the story got pretty crappy toward the end with Aribeth inexplicably turning evil). I passed on the Shadows expansion pack cuz everyone at the game shop and at Amazon said it was crap and too easy.



Ah see, we're completely the opposite.  I loathed the original's tepid storyline and fetch quests, I think SoU is the best of the three, and really enjoyed HotU's puzzles.  To each their own.



> I get Hordes, hearing how much better it's supposed to be, and then am super-pissed to find out they won't let me play certain prestige classes (assassin, blackguard, shadowdancer, etc.) because I didn't buy their crummy Shadows or NWN Gold. That stinks! They got enough of my money already on the original NWN and now with Hordes, that's $80+. It's a cheap rip-off to get you to buy the game all over again (NWN Gold) so they can milk you for another $30.



Well, those were released in SoU.  They don't make stuff for free, you know.  And you _could_ just buy SoU and install that, you don't have to buy NWN Gold.  That's just a convenience thing for people who have never played the game, and want to get the game _and _the expansion.



> Then in Hordes, I can't just easily create the character I want from scratch, I have to use their awful prebuilt characters, and what is up with that point buy nonsense? I want to reroll my stats like in BG or ToEE until I have practically all 18s, not play some 28 point buy weeny, LOL.



Er... you don't have to use their prebuilt characters. 



> And the rules are so badly translated, it's not like playing D&D at all. Maybe I'm spoiled after ToEE's near-exactitude to the real PnP rules, but I find it endlessly frustrating that things aren't the way they are in the rules I have memorized and at my fingertips in the core books! Granted, it's been a year since I played NWN, and I completely forgot about its shoddy rules interpretation. Some of its interpretations are logical improvements over the core rules (Toughness granting 1 extra hit point/level, retroactively, for example), but mostly, it's just weird and confusing and makes it harder to know the consequences of making certain character choices intuitively.



Well, the reason for it's "shoddy" interpretation of the rules is because it's not a tactical game, like the PnP version at it's heart is.  In fact, I'm a little confused how you could think anything real-time would be like playing PnP at all.



> I tried playing Hordes for hours and hours today and found myself getting repeatedly killed by stupid goblins casting ice storm and fireball over and over, going back and forth through all the same looking rooms and corridors unable to solve puzzles or open/bash chests/doors. It wasn't all that much fun. I'm totally stuck now in the gargoyles shooting laser beams/skeleton bomb room. I can't believe how irritating this game is.



Well, don't play it then.  I mean, you didn't like NWN (as implied in the not liking the shoddy rules), why did you think HotU would be any different?


----------



## Iron_Chef (Dec 17, 2003)

It's not really a real time game IMO if you can pause it and make it more turn based, which I frequently do, as poking through radial menus with lots of options is not conducive to real time fighting unless you don't cast spells. 

I did like NWN, up to a point, though I disliked it not being a proper interpretation of the core rules and disliked the character development of Aribeth, which contributed heavily to a rather lame ending (like those uber-lizard men coming out of left field as the main villains). I'd forgotten just how different NWN was from the PnP rules over the past year and especially after playing through ToEE with its much more exacting PnP rules (not that that game isn't without its faults).

Anybody have the solution to the Undermountain triple gargoyle statue/skeleton bomb room? Every time I try moving the statues, they move back and drop a skeleton bomb on me. Pushing levers puts force fields around the statues. I have no idea what to do. Also, I can't find all the colored chains to open the magically sealed door on the 2nd level.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 18, 2003)

Iron_Chef said:
			
		

> It's not really a real time game IMO if you can pause it and make it more turn based, which I frequently do, as poking through radial menus with lots of options is not conducive to real time fighting unless you don't cast spells.



Well, just because the game can be paused doesn't make it turn-based, though I see your point.



> I did like NWN, up to a point, though I disliked it not being a proper interpretation of the core rules and disliked the character development of Aribeth, which contributed heavily to a rather lame ending (like those uber-lizard men coming out of left field as the main villains).



Yeah, the original campaign really did stink, I'll be the first to admit.



> I'd forgotten just how different NWN was from the PnP rules over the past year and especially after playing through ToEE with its much more exacting PnP rules (not that that game isn't without its faults).



To be fair, there are definitely parts of the game I would like a better adherence to PnP rules too.



> Anybody have the solution to the Undermountain triple gargoyle statue/skeleton bomb room? Every time I try moving the statues, they move back and drop a skeleton bomb on me. Pushing levers puts force fields around the statues. I have no idea what to do. Also, I can't find all the colored chains to open the magically sealed door on the 2nd level.



If it's the puzzle I'm thinking of, you're trying to open a door, right?  I never encountered any skeleton bombs though.  I know there was a faerie in a room making them, you could try taking her out before attempting the puzzle, I don't know if that would help.  Turn the statues so that they're facing the door and the beam comes out, then push the lever - this prevents them from being reset.  Once all three are facing the door (the middle one forward, the two side ones diagonally towards it) and locked the door should open.

The chains are scattered around, and my memory is kind of shady on this.  I know one is on the goblin right when you enter the level.  One is with the traders (where Linu is).  One is in the northern area, though I forget what's there.  And I'm totally blanking on the fourth, I think it's with some drow in their encampment.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Dec 26, 2003)

Okay, Santa has come and gone and I now have Hordes if the Underdark.  After some protests from the my computer I have it up and running...  I went to my old save games only to see that my last save was 10/10/02.  

So what's wrong with me?   I've never done the party thing, I only have dial-up, I haven't even finished the original campaign so I figure I would run through that a little bit and I realize I love this game.   I wish I could answer the question as why has it been a year since I've played but I can't. 

Anyhow I have some questions:
1) Where is the "jump" on point for "Hordes of the Underdark"?  I'm only in chapter 3 of the original game, but I'm already a 13th level character. 

2) Did everyone start Shadows of Undertide" as a 1st level character?

3) If anyone wants to play a multiplayer game let me know.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 26, 2003)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Anyhow I have some questions:
> 1) Where is the "jump" on point for "Hordes of the Underdark"? I'm only in chapter 3 of the original game, but I'm already a 13th level character.



12th level is the minimum if you use a pre-existing character, 15th if you start one from scratch, or under 12th level (you'll be levelled up automatically).



> 2) Did everyone start Shadows of Undertide" as a 1st level character?



SoU was designed for you to start at 1st level.  You could start at a higher level, but you'll be impacting the difficulty of the game if you do.

As an aside, HotU is designed as a semi-sequel to SoU, _not_ to the original game - though there is one thing late in HotU which wraps up something from the original game.  It's a very minor thing though, IMO.



> 3) If anyone wants to play a multiplayer game let me know.



I would, but my connection has been rediculously flaky lately.   I'm actually going to have to call my provider (Road Runner) and have words with them.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Dec 26, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> 12th level is the minimum if you use a pre-existing character, 15th if you start one from scratch, or under 12th level (you'll be levelled up automatically).



Cool, I will be playing SoU first then.   Well after I finish the original...  Though when I started the game I didn't know much about 3.0 edition and I don't really like my character now...  Nice thing to find out 28 hours into the game huh? 




			
				LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I would, but my connection has been rediculously flaky lately.   I'm actually going to have to call my provider (Road Runner) and have words with them.



Well I'm only on 56K anyways so I doubt anyone would have much fun dealling with it.

Actually I have a few more questions.

4) How does the multiplayer play over 56K connection?

5) Does anyone really know how to do the custom races?  I've read a few things about it but I'm worried about breaking my install.

6) Does anyone know of any good to great modules that they dearly love?

7) ENworld Guild, do we have one?


----------



## Liolel (Dec 26, 2003)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I went to my old save games only to see that my last save was 10/10/02.




Try running nwn updater. When I installed I went from version 1.61 (sou) to 1.59 (hotu) and an older version can't play newer saved games.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Dec 26, 2003)

Liolel said:
			
		

> Try running nwn updater. When I installed I went from version 1.61 (sou) to 1.59 (hotu) and an older version can't play newer saved games.



Oh my saves worked just fine!  I have since updated to 1.61.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 27, 2003)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> 4) How does the multiplayer play over 56K connection?
> 
> 5) Does anyone really know how to do the custom races? I've read a few things about it but I'm worried about breaking my install.
> 
> ...



Number four I can't answer, since I've had a cable modem or university connection since I've had the game.

Custom races are, to my knowledge, still a kludge.  There's a program that can be found at nwvault.ign.com which was put out that allows you to create them as characters before you start the game, but an actual integrated thing with the 2da files doesn't work because they hardcoded the race selection part (because of the GUI).

Similarly, at the site above you can find a lot of modules.  I'd recommend the Dreamcatcher series.  A lot of people recommend the Penultima series as well, but I wasn't too fond of it myself.

I do not know if there's an ENWorld guild, but if there isn't, there should be!


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Dec 27, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Number four I can't answer, since I've had a cable modem or university connection since I've had the game.



I wish I didn't need the answer... 



			
				LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Custom races are, to my knowledge, still a kludge.  There's a program that can be found at nwvault.ign.com which was put out that allows you to create them as characters before you start the game, but an actual integrated thing with the 2da files doesn't work because they hardcoded the race selection part (because of the GUI).




My desire to play unique characters will always be the death of me...  Is this it? 

Link

If so have you tried it?  As in have you made your own race?  I figured I would start simple and just use the human model and basically template a human with the "Half-Nymph" template seen in dragon 314.  (Yes I'm crazy, but in case your going to ask anyways, cause Half Nymph paladins rock!)

Do you know if "character creator" characters/races work in the official models?



			
				LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Similarly, at the site above you can find a lot of modules.  I'd recommend the Dreamcatcher series.  A lot of people recommend the Penultima series as well, but I wasn't too fond of it myself.



Yeah I've been their most of the day and I'm downloading the shadowlord series, and movies as we speak though I imagine it will be awhile before their done downloading and I get a chance to really play one.



			
				LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I do not know if there's an ENWorld guild, but if there isn't, there should be!



I'm full of good ideas today I guess.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 27, 2003)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> My desire to play unique characters will always be the death of me... Is this it?
> 
> If so have you tried it? As in have you made your own race? I figured I would start simple and just use the human model and basically template a human with the "Half-Nymph" template seen in dragon 314. (Yes I'm crazy, but in case your going to ask anyways, cause Half Nymph paladins rock!)
> 
> Do you know if "character creator" characters/races work in the official models?



That's the one, though I haven't tried it myself, I may in the future depending on how motivated I get.  I would try the CODI boards, there's probably a lot of help to be had there.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Dec 27, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> That's the one, though I haven't tried it myself, I may in the future depending on how motivated I get.



I have it but I haven't done much with it other than play around with it some.  Though I haven't finished anything and try to incorporate it in yet.




			
				LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I would try the CODI boards, there's probably a lot of help to be had there.



You know?  That's a darn good idea!  I knew I was keeping you around for something!   (In all seriousness I'm shocked I hadn't thought of it yet...  I wonder if I would ever have thought of it.   )


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 27, 2003)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> You know? That's a darn good idea! I knew I was keeping you around for something!  (In all seriousness I'm shocked I hadn't thought of it yet... I wonder if I would ever have thought of it.  )



I have my moments.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Dec 28, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I have my moments.



speaking of moments I started a thread about the ENworld Guild which can be seen here.


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## Asmo (Jan 10, 2004)

I´ve just finished Hordes of the Underdark and I´m overwhelmed. This is simply one of the best expansions I´ve ever played, almost reaching the hights of the Baldurs Gate games.
5 stars out of 5.

Asmo


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