# OT News  Threads



## BrooklynKnight (Oct 27, 2003)

Would it possibly make any sense, to discourage people from posting generic news on boards, as upposed to news that in some way affects gamers?

Doug H's post on fruad for example, is a perfect news thread for this board. (In fact i think it belongs on the front page).
But the forest fire thread doesnt. This isint CNN....
Unless an ENworlder is directly or very closley but indirectly affected by some news event i think stuff like that should be discouraged along with politics and religion.

And yea i've made my share of OT news posts (the hologram thing isint really OT tho, not IMO.), and OT posts in general, and i've been reamed for it.

Well i'm tired of seeing stuff on the first page that somone can just as easily see if they go to cnn.com. 

Its great we're a community and its great we share informaiton, but like i said, unless it affects someone in the community i dont feel news posts like that should have a place here. 

Unless of course, someone puts an RP twist on it


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 27, 2003)

Oh, the Larp thread and the one on Gary Gygax are also appropriate IMO, since they are connected to gaming and gamers.


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## ergeheilalt (Oct 27, 2003)

ArthurQ said:
			
		

> Doug H's post on fruad for example, is a perfect news thread for this board. (In fact i think it belongs on the front page).
> But the forest fire thread doesnt. This isint CNN....
> Unless an ENworlder is directly or very closley but indirectly affected by some news event i think stuff like that should be discouraged along with politics and religion.




Sorry, AQ, I disagree. Saying that the fires ravaging Southern California are an “irrelevant" post, or a post that does not directly affect ENworlders doesn't quite resonate well with me. I know a number of ENworlds who are in the LA area or San Diego. I'm in Pomona (east of LA) and we're getting falling ash all over he campus here at Cal Poly Pomona. In San Diego (my hometown) my Uncle and Aunt have been evacuated and my mom and siblings are being kept indoors by the copious sums of ash.

So, yes - the fires both directly and indirectly affect me. I agree that some threads are a bit "out there - the only one that I can remember being news-related is the Sweedish Foreign Minister thread. The other big news threads have been hurricanes, massive blackouts, and things of a similar nature – things that affect ENworlders. 

I see no reason why a big news story that does not violate the religion/politics rules should be banned or removed. Of course, if you can bring up some other examples I would be more inclined to support your opinion, but with the facts you have stated I see no reason to agree.

Signing out from Smoldering SoCal,
Erge


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 27, 2003)

I should have read that thread first before using it as an example. heh.

That thread has someones personal interactions and experiences with the fire and stuff. So yea, its ok. Im sorry.

But my original point stands. If mods are cracking down on OT threads, crack down on news ones too.

And maybe instead of just locking them. they should be deleted. (which will also save on bandwith).


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 27, 2003)

Well, I happen to agree with ArthurQ on this.  If I want generic news, I'll check out a news site, switch to one of the news channels, or read a newspaper.  Gaming-related news like the LARPing one is okay, because it really is on topic - this site was built first and foremost as a 3E (and later d20) rumours and news site.  The fraud one is alright but pushing it IMO - it probably belongs in Computers.  Still, revealing fraud is important, and it reaches the most people in General.  The CA fires one is, IMO, completely gratuitous.  One of my good friends lives in that region of California, and I'm concerned for him, much like I'm sure everyone is concerned for their friends and loved ones there.  But this really is a news item that doesn't belong in General.  I feel the same way about the sports posts - they belong at a sports message board, not an RPG one.

I understand that there's a sense of community about these boards, and it's the main reason I still read the boards since I first came to Eric's site way back when.  However, as much as the community members might want to talk about other common interests they share, it's really not appropriate for this message board, in my opinion.

Though I would be amused at an OT biochemistry thread... then maybe I could contribute something of use.


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## Skade (Oct 27, 2003)

I really have never noticed a problem with the number of OT posts as many do, but I accept that it bothers some.  However, I think it is very difficult to decide which OT news posts are relevant and which are not.  Take the fire and Swedish politician threads for instance.  The fire might be considered alright because posters are affected by that incident, but as many Swedes would tell you they were deeply affected by the death of their Foriegn Minister.  It's pretty difficult to say which is acceptable, and which is not.  

I don't have a good answer to the problem, I can only suggest why I think the solution is not easy in the making.  

I think the better question would be "is there a way to put the OT threads on the second page or something?"  *

*I'm sure most of you get this.


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## alsih2o (Oct 27, 2003)

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61186


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Oct 27, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61186



Score one for alsih2o


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## Mistwell (Oct 27, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61186





When I was a kid...oh, around 25 years ago...we would call this a "Scratch and Burn!"

Someone mentioned Sports threads.  The only Sports threads I recall are EnWorld Fantasy Sports threads.  Those are EnWorld events...not general sports discussions.


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## Umbran (Oct 27, 2003)

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> Score one for alsih2o




Yeah, well, perhaps it's a bit of "use a thief to catch a theif" or "use a pot to identify the color of a kettle" logic


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 27, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61186



yep i made that post. And people complained about its OTness. Absolutly right. People dont want me making OT posts, i dont want them making them either. Especially things that everyone can just see over on cnn.


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## Mistwell (Oct 27, 2003)

I have yet to hear one single example of a valid "CNN" thread.  The "Fires" thread was and is about gamers impacted by the fires.  The sports threads was and are about EnWorld Fantasy threads.  The swedish political assassination was about the impact the murder had on EnWorld users.  Exactly WHICH threads are you talking about?


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## Mistwell (Oct 27, 2003)

I have yet to hear one single example of a valid "CNN" thread.  The "Fires" thread was and is about gamers impacted by the fires.  The sports threads was and are about EnWorld Fantasy threads.  The swedish political assassination was about the impact the murder had on EnWorld users.  Exactly WHICH threads are you talking about?


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 27, 2003)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> I have yet to hear one single example of a valid "CNN" thread. The "Fires" thread was and is about gamers impacted by the fires. The sports threads was and are about EnWorld Fantasy threads. The swedish political assassination was about the impact the murder had on EnWorld users.



Well, by that reasoning, to be incredibly asinine, I could make a post about porn, relate it to gamers, or say the BoEF, and it's on topic.  Even further, I could then make a post about how that post affected ENWorld users, and it's on topic.  Sorry, but I don't buy it.  You can relate anything to gamers or the impact on ENWorld members, and therefore it's not a good judge of whether something is off topic or not.

Quite bluntly, I'm a little sick of people trying to justify OT threads by claiming they relate to the community, or because they have to do with gamers.  The description of General is not "Hear about how world events affect so-and-so users".  It's "Discuss D&D and RPGs in general, DM/player issues, settings, etc.".  People are not RPGs, and so stuff like the fires is OT, plain and simple.


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## KidCthulhu (Oct 28, 2003)

Ah, so you don't want to get rid of them because they are or are not of interest to the general community.  You want to get rid of them because a) they don't interest you and b) you got yelled at, so you want to see others get punished too.

Very mature.  

I don't have a problem with news threads.  The world has an impact on us and we on it.  As long as things don't get political or insulting, I enjoy discussing events with people who have a similar set experiences and background.


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## Welverin (Oct 28, 2003)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Someone mentioned Sports threads.  The only Sports threads I recall are EnWorld Fantasy Sports threads.  Those are EnWorld events...not general sports discussions.




Well somehow you've missed them. I believe there was a thread on the MLB playoffs, I know there was one on the NFL around the time the season started, and there is now a yearly NHL playoff thread. So we definitely have plain old sports discussion threads, they are kept to one at a time however.


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## thatdarncat (Oct 28, 2003)

Other people have rightly pointed out that all this [OT] news does affect gamers, abet in a more personal way. 

I'd like to add that I've found these news posts are a great source of information for major events, such as 9/11, the columbia disaster and the blackouts. Most news sites, like CNN, DDOS'd off the net by all the people attempting to reach them during something major. Also, the threads tend to be a great collection of news from many sources, often giving greater insight into events than perusing a single site like CNN or even several sites would give. 

If something big is happening, I flip on the TV and check ENWorld. I know I'll get good news from ENWorld, and I might get shiny pictures from TV. But not much else. 

Next you'll tell me I shouldn't ask for a good chili recipe on the boards.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 28, 2003)

KidCthulhu said:
			
		

> Very mature.



If you mean me, I try my hardest. 

However, that doesn't change the fact - they're OT posts.  I'm a just a little sick of people trying to say they aren't.  Perhaps my reaction before was incensed, and I apologize for that.  It doesn't change my position one bit though.

And hey, I only argue my own opinion.  I leave the obviousness of that to the readers... if they can't figure that out, and take offense, that's not my problem.  That shouldn't have to be pointed out at every opportunity.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 28, 2003)

thatdarncat said:
			
		

> Other people have rightly pointed out that all this [OT] news does affect gamers, abet in a more personal way.



Again, just because something affects gamers does not mean that it's on topic or that it belongs on these boards, specifically in General.  In fact, there's a precedent of moderators moving posts that are personal into Meta.  Just because they're personal to more than one person doesn't mean they're not personal.

And again, but that logic, pretty much anything can be posted in General.  I could start giving sex advice... after all, gamers do have sex.  Therefore it affects gamers.  The fact is that the whole "affecting gamers" is a terrible arguement, plain and simple.



> Next you'll tell me I shouldn't ask for a good chili recipe on the boards.



I have a good recipe for vegetable chili...


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 28, 2003)

hey hey! you're not supposed to attack LP, you're supposed to attack me!


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 28, 2003)

ArthurQ said:
			
		

> hey hey! you're not supposed to attack LP, you're supposed to attack me!



You suck!

*kicks ArthurQ in the head*


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## Skade (Oct 28, 2003)

Arthur do really must be a glutton for punishment, I mean you drink Pepsi Blue...  Its the only substance more vile than Crystal Pepsi.  

Seriously though, does the OT posting really get to you?  I have hardly even noticed it.  I treat the OT like anything else, if the topic does not grab me, off I go.  

LightPhoenix, your _reducto ad absurdum_ argument does have some merit (look at me and the pigeon latin), but good taste and a modicum of self restraint are what keep such things from happening.

I've always thought that the Hivemind was a good place to post most of the really out there OT posts that come up on the boards.  We could always use a new barely tangental subject to discuss.  Quite a few OT posts are useful to gamers though, like any odd creature or disease posts that come up pretty regularly, or news relating to science or archealogy.  Sure most of this could really go into Plots and Places, and if that were the policy, and it were upheld I would have no problems with it at all.  

I think the only real factors that should be addressed in deciding the lifespan or location of an OT post is whether it is against board rules, becomes an all out flamefest, or whether the mods belive it belongs best elsewhere.  As it stands, when there are too many OT threads the mods remind us to keep it down.  

I think the system works, but as I said, I really hardly notice the problem at all.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 28, 2003)

Skade said:
			
		

> LightPhoenix, your _reducto ad absurdum_ argument does have some merit (look at me and the pigeon latin), but good taste and a modicum of self restraint are what keep such things from happening.



If nothing else, I am a master of absurdity. 



> I've always thought that the Hivemind was a good place to post most of the really out there OT posts that come up on the boards.



Good point on the Hivemind thread - isn't this supposed to be exactly for these types of topics?



> Quite a few OT posts are useful to gamers though, like any odd creature or disease posts that come up pretty regularly, or news relating to science or archealogy. Sure most of this could really go into Plots and Places, and if that were the policy, and it were upheld I would have no problems with it at all.



Well, there was a question of whether or not Plots and Places was going to be deleted entirely.  The grey-area OT posts such as you describe (though I would contest science) that could go either way may be a moot point in the end.  I don't think the mods had reached a decision on that though.



> I think the only real factors that should be addressed in deciding the lifespan or location of an OT post is whether it is against board rules, becomes an all out flamefest, or whether the mods belive it belongs best elsewhere. As it stands, when there are too many OT threads the mods remind us to keep it down.
> 
> I think the system works, but as I said, I really hardly notice the problem at all.



I'll be slightly honest here.  In part I'm arguing this for the sake of arguing (or being a pain in the bum, your call ), though I do stand by all my points.  I don't expect Morrus or any of the mods to read this and suddenly make huge sweeping policy changes.  And I've mastered the subtle art of NRSIDL - "not reading 'stuff' I don't like", so the OT posts don't bother me too much, except when they get excessive.

That said, the location of OT posts is pretty much nailed in stone.  Some of the decisions by the mods may be arbitrary, but they are pretty consistent in upholding them.

Really though, the reason the system works is because as a community we're relatively good at self-policing and self-restraint.  In _many_ message boards, the sort of system that we have now just does not work.  I'm constantly amazed that the messageboards, particularly General, are as civil as they are.


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 28, 2003)

My primary reason for making this post was to illustrate that either ALL OT posts should be cracked down on, or the OT thing should be left alone.

When i made OT posts, i usually had 2 kinds. One such as those regarding the photoalbums were about the community and bringing it together.

The other, was basically just getting people to laugh and to show that everyone has bad days.

But I got reamed for it. I dont see others getting reamed for OT threads, maybe i'm blind. Everyone should be treated the same. I've i'm being asked to lower the OT threads i make, fine, but I'd like others to be beholden to the same thing. 

Oh, and it also ties into bandwith costs, the more OT posts, the more bandwith used. Less OT posts, less bandiwth. Its logic.

Now, i sit back, and wait to get flamed, and picked apart, by the indivuduals that oh so enjoy to do so to my posts. I'm quite sure they find a sick delight in doing so.


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## alsih2o (Oct 28, 2003)

ArthurQ said:
			
		

> Now, i sit back, and wait to get flamed, and picked apart, by the indivuduals that oh so enjoy to do so to my posts. I'm quite sure they find a sick delight in doing so.




 my delight isn't sick at all. normal temperature, healthy demeanor, breathing clearly.

 you see, there ia a big difference between "X happened, and it affects many of us, or soem of us profoundly" and "i got a parking ticket" or "how is everyone?"


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## KidCthulhu (Oct 28, 2003)

LP, I buy your arguments completely.  I agree that OT should be labeled as such.  It just helps keep the boards flowing smoothly if everyone can tell something about a thread by its title.

I'd love to post all about the rest of this topic, but I've let myself get lured in again, and forgotten my cardinal rule.  Rule 1:  Ignore attention trolls.

Rule 2: (in case you're curious) Spell check.


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## Dinkeldog (Oct 28, 2003)

I'd follow KidCthulhu's cardinal rules with one more:

Rule 3:  Use proper capitalization.  

Don't look for the OT threads to go away.  As long as they don't get out of control, we're okay.  When they do get out of control, we lock some as necessary.  It's worked for better than 3 years now, so why "fix" it?


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 28, 2003)

KidCthulhu said:
			
		

> LP, I buy your arguments completely. I agree that OT should be labeled as such. It just helps keep the boards flowing smoothly if everyone can tell something about a thread by its title.



I agree, and as Dinkeldog posted above, the current situation isn't going to change.

The solution I propose, which I honestly do not know is possible, is two-fold.

First, people start having to use the right tags.  Not just an [OT] in the subject line, but the actual colored tag.

Second, it would be great if users could filter out posts based on the tag.  That way, if you don't want OT posts to be seen, just change a setting, and it's done, no more OT posts in General.  I don't know if this is possible though, and could very well necessitate a giant hack in the board software.  Not to mention it would probably raise bandwidth slightly, due to an increase in database queries.


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## alsih2o (Oct 28, 2003)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I agree, and as Dinkeldog posted above, the current situation isn't going to change.
> 
> The solution I propose, which I honestly do not know is possible, is two-fold.
> 
> ...




 third, people who cannot keep within the rules should refrain from trying to take a moderatorial stance on these issues.

 i am always amazed at how some people have trouble just being


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## Mistwell (Oct 28, 2003)

At what point does an OT post impact a member of the EnWorld community so much, that it is perfectly fine that it be posted? 

I know, when my fiancée and I lost our baby, these boards were a tremendous help for me.  But those posts were totally off topic.

We've had members of this community die, or dying, and discussed it.  I think those discussions were some of the most helpful things that have ever happened on these boards.  But they, too, were way off topic.

If you decide to eliminate off topic threads, you are doing great damage to the sense of community this board creates.  I promise you that, if off topic threads were banned (or just all shoved into Hive), the sense of community here would be a lot lower.  And when the sense of community is lower, the desire to donate to EnWorld is also much lower.  

EnWorld just went through a financial crisis.  But for that sense of community, I doubt it would have made it through intact.  I contend that, if you did ban OT discussions, or shove them all into Hive, EnWorld would not be here today for you to be reading this message.

Should we limit OT discussions? Yes, within some reasonable boundaries.  I think the mods do a pretty good job at this.  There is a big difference between "I got a parking ticket" and "my house just burned down".  I'm not sure exactly where the line should be drawn (and wouldn't want to be the one making that decision), but I know which side of the line each of those topics belongs, and I think the mods do as well.


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## EricNoah (Oct 29, 2003)

OT posting, for the time being, will be dealt with under a self-policing system.  An "honor" system in a sense, though not really tied to good/bad, etc.  There will be times when someone posts something off-topic that you think has no business here.  But the only thing you can really do about it is to be sure to participate as much as you can in the types of threads you do like and with any luck those will rise to the top.


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## KidCthulhu (Oct 29, 2003)

I want all the posts with that nice Eric Noah guy to be on the top.  Especially the ones with funny photoshopped pictures of him!


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