# Top 10 boardgames on BGG



## MerricB (Dec 16, 2008)

Yay! With the delivery of Dominion yesterday, I now have the top 10 boardgames on BGG!

At present the top 10 are...

#1: Agricola. Yes, it is that good.

#2: Puerto Rico. I don't play this often.

#3: Power Grid. Love this game, though we don't play it as often as I'd like.

#4: Twilight Struggle. This is my #1 game.

#5: Tigris and Euphrates. I don't think I've played this for a year, but it's a great game.

#6: El Grande. Rarely play it, as it really wants 5 players.

#7: Dominion. I have it now!

#8: Caylus. I've played a lot of games of this online, and it's very good.

#9: Race for the Galaxy. Good fun.

#10: Through the Ages. Exceptional. This is going to be one of my top 5 games. The 3rd edition printing is very nice.

Cheers!


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## TerraDave (Dec 16, 2008)

Are these all eurogames?

"Ameritrash" is underrated. 

(And with that, I make my first post in this forum).


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## MerricB (Dec 16, 2008)

TerraDave said:


> Are these all eurogames?
> 
> "Ameritrash" is underrated.
> 
> (And with that, I make my first post in this forum).




No. Twilight Struggle is a Wargame/ConSim, although an unusual one. It's definitely not an Euro. I suppose Through the Ages counts as an Euro, but it pushes the boundaries.

Is War of the Ring Ameritheme? 

Cheers!


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## Melba Toast (Dec 16, 2008)

Much as I admire their strategic complexity, Eurotrash games generally don't appeal to my aestetic tastes. Like, "Settlers of Thanksgiving" is fun and all, but I feel like I'm in grade school when I play it. It's so ... precious.


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## TerraDave (Dec 16, 2008)

I don’t know, I haven’t played it! (This is one of those “trying to get back into it”, things for me). From reading descriptions, it has a “choice focusing” mechanic that increases replayability, and that is sort of euro, but on the other hand is big, epic, involves fighting, has lots of fantasy themed pieces and a rulebook longer then 10 pages. Looked very cool. 

Twilight Strugle also looked interesting, and Through the Ages, I will probably check out at _some_ point, but again, something gets so abstract...it looses the fun...but at least it has a big theme.


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## Hammerhead (Dec 16, 2008)

Yeah, I like Race for the Galaxy, but for the most part those Eurogames are pretty boring. Hell, a lot of them remind me of my degree in supply chain management, but with all the fun and interesting parts taken out. 

I can't believe that games like Camelot, Arkham, and Pandemic aren't on the top 10.


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## TerraDave (Dec 16, 2008)

_my first double post!_


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## MerricB (Dec 16, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Yeah, I like Race for the Galaxy, but for the most part those Eurogames are pretty boring. Hell, a lot of them remind me of my degree in supply chain management, but with all the fun and interesting parts taken out.
> 
> I can't believe that games like Camelot, Arkham, and Pandemic aren't on the top 10.




None of those three are really top 10 worthy. (I presume you mean "Shadows over Camelot"?) I've played all three (I own both Arkham Horror and Pandemic), and of the three only Arkham Horror deserves a high place IMO. Pandemic is very clever, but I really don't think it has extended replay value. It also tends very much towards just being a solo game - one person can make all the decisions, really.

Shadows over Camelot is fun, but there are a lot of better games. (I've a feeling that I'm going to enjoy BSG a lot more than SoC).

For a game to rank highly on BGG, it's got to appeal to a *lot* of people. Agricola fully deserves its #1 spot - despite being a Eurogame, it has a giood amount of theme to it.

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Dec 16, 2008)

Of the games in the Top 10 list, four are very new: Agricola, Dominion, Through the Ages and Race for the Galaxy.

I expect that Race will likely drop out of the Top 10 next year. Possibly TTA and Dominion as well.

Looking at #11 to #20, we find a wider range of games:

#11: The Princes of Florence
#12: Age of Steam
#13: War of the Ring
#14: C&C: Ancients
#15: Brass
#16: Hannibal: Rome vs Carthage
#17: Die Macher
#18: Shogun
#19: Paths of Glory
#20: 1960: The Making of the President.

This list is dominated by the wargames - WotR, C&C, Hannibal, Shogun and Paths. Interestingly, all five use cards to add variety, although in very different ways. Hannibal and Paths are good examples of the card-driven wargame in the traditional school; C&C:A is one of several games using Borg's quite effective card/command system, and WotR uses Card Events and Dice to drive the action.

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Dec 16, 2008)

TerraDave said:


> I don’t know, I haven’t played it! (This is one of those “trying to get back into it”, things for me). From reading descriptions, it has a “choice focusing” mechanic that increases replayability, and that is sort of euro, but on the other hand is big, epic, involves fighting, has lots of fantasy themed pieces and a rulebook longer then 10 pages. Looked very cool.




War of the Ring is an exceptional game. It takes 2-3 hours to play (generally), although probably longer whilst you're learning - or in a rare game where things just _happen_.

It's definitely not a Euro, but neither is it a traditional wargame. Your actions are restricted by the dice you roll, but you have event cards that can allow you to do special things that drip with theme from the books.

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Dec 16, 2008)

#21-30 are interesting, and we get our first traditional boardgame here:

#21: Ra
#22: Goa
#23: Railroad Tycoon
#24: Pandemic - that's very, very high. I don't think it'll keep it, but it's an astonishingly high rank
#25: Battlelore
#26: Imperial
#27: Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery
#28: Combat Commander: Europe
#29: Twilight Imperium 3rd edition
#30: Go.

Of the top 30 games, there's only one I haven't played - Paths of Glory - and that's a game we own and plan to get to in the near future. 

Cheers!


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## Melba Toast (Dec 17, 2008)

My favourite boardgame of all time was a 1970s/80's game "Survive" by Parker Bros. If it were produced today, it'd probably be called a eurogame, but I don't think that's appropriate since it's was actually fun!

The board resembles the board for Settlers, with an island constructed from hexagonal cards. The island is exploding though, and each turn you remove one of the island peices and reveal the object or instructions underneathe.

Each player controls a tribe with (I think) 12 people. Each of those 12 people has a point value assigned to it, but you won't know til the end of the game.

The islanders either try to swim or row to the nearby islands before the sharks, whales or sea serpents get them.

Brilliant stuff. I can't beleive it's fallen into obscurity.


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## MerricB (Dec 17, 2008)

Melba Toast said:


> My favourite boardgame of all time was a 1970s/80's game "Survive" by Parker Bros. If it were produced today, it'd probably be called a eurogame, but I don't think that's appropriate since it's was actually fun!
> 
> The board resembles the board for Settlers, with an island constructed from hexagonal cards. The island is exploding though, and each turn you remove one of the island peices and reveal the object or instructions underneathe.
> 
> ...




That sounds really cool.  (There's a recent Eurogame called _Downfall of Pompeii_ which has your meeples being fried by lava and tossed into the volcano, which is also amusing. Horrible things happening often are in games...)

Survive! is ranked #229 on BGG as well - that's exceptionally high. 

It's hard for boardgames to stay in print; they need to be really exceptional and keep selling (as Monopoly, Carcassonne and Settlers of Catan have). I dare say that in five years, the Top 10 on BGG will change significantly.

I've also been noting a rise in wargames, as several good games are released that are good introductions to the hobby for gamers.

Cheers!


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## Asmor (Dec 17, 2008)

I've only played 4 of the top 10...

Dominion's a fast favorite, and everyone I've introduced it to (with the notable exception of my fiancée! ) loves it.

Tigris & Euphrates is my favorite game, though sadly I've only played it a few times.

I'm a fan of Race for the Galaxy. Hope to add it to my collection sooner rather than later...

And Puerto Rico's not a bad game, to be sure, but I always feel it's horrendously overrated. I just don't understand why it's rated so highly.


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## MerricB (Dec 17, 2008)

Asmor said:


> And Puerto Rico's not a bad game, to be sure, but I always feel it's horrendously overrated. I just don't understand why it's rated so highly.




I think it has a lot to do with when it was published: in 2002, it provided a game with several interlocking economic mechanisms, and the variety of the different building types.

Like Caylus and Agricola, you're building up your engine so that the late game plays quite differently from the early game, and each game plays differently based on the different buildings you buy. That's also the attraction of Dominion and Race for the Galaxy, of course!

However, of the top games on BGG, Puerto Rico was first. Caylus was 2005, and Agricola very recent indeed.  It had 3-4 years to build a very healthy rating. I don't know if those who voted it up are still active on BGG, or how often they still play it, but it's definitely one of the stand-out games of the last decade.

No, it isn't one of my Top 10, but I see the attraction.

Cheers!


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## scitadel (Dec 18, 2008)

I'll third the over-rating of Puerto Rico, but I tend towards more Ameritheme games anyway.  Of the top 10, I have played only 4 - the top and bottom 2. Hee.  I've heard great things about Dominion and definitely intend to pick up a copy myself, ditto Caylus (or Caylus Magna Carta - any suggestions on which? I like the potential portability aspect of CMC).  

The others I have friends who I can mooch games off 

Oh and if you want a real logistics / supply chain management game - buy Container.  I still need to play that game with some real gamers - it's so not a gateway game.


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## MerricB (Dec 18, 2008)

scitadel said:


> I'll third the over-rating of Puerto Rico, but I tend towards more Ameritheme games anyway.  Of the top 10, I have played only 4 - the top and bottom 2. Hee.  I've heard great things about Dominion and definitely intend to pick up a copy myself, ditto Caylus (or Caylus Magna Carta - any suggestions on which? I like the potential portability aspect of CMC).
> 
> The others I have friends who I can mooch games off
> 
> Oh and if you want a real logistics / supply chain management game - buy Container.  I still need to play that game with some real gamers - it's so not a gateway game.




I think CMC is a pale imitation of the original. It just isn't as tense or as good as Caylus. Caylus plays very well with 2-4 players, less well with five.

Cheers!


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## Victim (Dec 18, 2008)

Of the top 10, I've only played Race (which I really enjoy), so it's hard for me to really compare.  Agricola just doesn't sound interesting to me though.  It seems so petty.


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## C_M2008 (Dec 19, 2008)

Tigris & Euphrates is terrible, I don't know why it's on that list.

Puerto Rico is pretty good, I don't know if it deseves #2.

Surprised there's no Catan on that list to be honest, I guess "best" doesn't mean what's popular.


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## Korgoth (Dec 19, 2008)

I haven't played any of the "Top 10". Agricola sounds like "multi-player solitaire", which is what I've heard about Race ftG too.

I am glad to see that a number of wargames are rated pretty highly.


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## Asmor (Dec 20, 2008)

C_M2008 said:


> Tigris & Euphrates is terrible




I fear I must challenge you to fisticuffs, sirrah, for that blasphemy.


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## Thanee (Dec 20, 2008)

C_M2008 said:


> Surprised there's no Catan on that list to be honest, I guess "best" doesn't mean what's popular.




It's board game _geek_ ... the games that are considered good naturally are a bit more hardcore than Settlers of Catan (which is generally considered fairly weak due to its extreme randomness, I believe, despite being a fun game). 

Bye
Thanee


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## Hammerhead (Dec 20, 2008)

Korgoth said:


> I haven't played any of the "Top 10". Agricola sounds like "multi-player solitaire", which is what I've heard about Race ftG too.
> 
> I am glad to see that a number of wargames are rated pretty highly.




No way. Race for the Galaxy is all about leeching off the other guy's actions.


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## MerricB (Dec 20, 2008)

Korgoth said:


> I haven't played any of the "Top 10". Agricola sounds like "multi-player solitaire", which is what I've heard about Race ftG too.
> 
> I am glad to see that a number of wargames are rated pretty highly.




Agricola is by no means multi-player solitaire. You interfere in each other's games a lot by taking the wood, sheep or other resource they wanted before they do.

If you play it with the Interactive deck, it gets even more... interactive. 

It's a truly great game.

Race for the Galaxy is lots of fun, and the actions of your opponents definitely affect you... but it's a lot closer to multi-player solitaire.

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanee said:


> It's board game _geek_ ... the games that are considered good naturally are a bit more hardcore than Settlers of Catan (which is generally considered fairly weak due to its extreme randomness, I believe, despite being a fun game).




Settlers of Catan is #33, which is very high. (There are almost 5000 boardgames rated on BGG). 

Settlers is an excellent gateway game, and I've played hundreds of games of it. However, once you're past your initial introduction to boardgames, you discover that there are many, many good games.

Here's the list from #31-40:

#31: YINSH - this is an one of a family of abstract games. I know nothing about it at all; it doesn't appeal to my friends at all.

#32: Stone Age - a new addition; it is a worker placement game (like Agricola and Caylus), but lighter and more random. I enjoy this game a lot, and I've been playing it on brettspielwelt.de

#33: The Settlers of Catan - one of the seminal Eurogames, and a fine gateway game to the larger boardgaming hobby. I play it on BSW, and still enjoy it a lot.

#34: Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear - a very new "light-medium" wargame. Lovely components; uses action points for activation and cards for interesting modifiers during the game. It's a good introduction to WW2 wargames.

#35: Tichu - we have it; I haven't played it yet. 

#36: Wallenstein - a hybrid Euro/Wargame set in Russia - it was later reimplemented as the highly ranked Shogun. This one is out of print and hard to get; I haven't played it.

#37: Crokinole - a Canadian dexterity game using a wooden board, pegs and balls. I think. 

#38: Hammer of the Scots - an excellent area control wargame, where your leaders (and their troops) go home every winter. I've only played this once, but it's really great and I want to play it again.

#39: Le Havre - a new addition... so new, it isn't even out in English yet (AFAIK). It's the follow-up to Agricola, although it changes a bunch of things.

#40: Memoir '44 - a brilliant, brilliant light wargame using Richard Borg's "Command & Colours" system.

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Dec 20, 2008)

Rounding out the Top 50:

#41: Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) - one of the giants of the wargaming world. Released in 1985, and still having material produced for it today, ASL is a very detailed system that can handle nearly any combined arms land action of World War 2. One of my top 5 games of all time... and I only started playing in the last couple of years. 

#42: Samurai - one of the great Reiner Knizia's tile games; this one's a good Eurogame, although it tends to be appreciated those who like solving puzzles. You need to surround treasure tokens with matching soldiers (and wild cards), but it can be very difficult to work against your opponents. I enjoy it, but it's doesn't thrill me.

#43: Ticket to Ride: Europe - the best of Alan Moon's "Ticket to Ride" series. It's a good family, gateway game to boardgaming. You collect sets of train cards to claim routes across Europe, whilst attempting to connect the stations mentioned in your secret hand of ticket cards. I delight in the TTR games, but this one is my favourite.

#44: Taj Mahal - this one is a lot of fun. You build palaces across India, attempting to gain trade goods and special bonuses while connecting links of palaces. It's hard to explain, but very fun to play. Eurogame.

#45: Struggle of Empires - we have it; and that's all I know. 

#46: Ticket to Ride - the original TTR game. More cutthroat than Europe, although it really needs the 1910 expansion to shine.

#47: Modern Art - it's an auction game, but that's about all I know about it.

#48: Dune - the old Avalon Hill classic. Designed by the team that designed Cosmic Encounter, Dune really captures the essence of the novel - six factions fight for control of the planet. Love this one, although I rarely play it these days.

#49: Galaxy Trucker - a new game, but one that's really worth looking out for. First you design your spaceship (a chaotic affair - you blindly draw tiles from a central point, competing against your opponents...), then it's a race to the finish, with lots of event cards (smugglers, asteroids, pirates...) making it harder for you. It's not uncommon for large parts of your ship to never arrive. Highly recommended. (2-4 players)

#50: Up Front - it's ASL as a card game! Highly sought after, although MMP are working on a revised version for some year close in the future. Probably. Haven't played this one.

Cheers!


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## Asmor (Dec 20, 2008)

MerricB said:


> #35: Tichu - we have it; I haven't played it yet.




It's big on BSW. It tends to attract a devoted following who are fanatical about it. I used to play it on there a lot... I'd describe it as a trick-taking game, but that's not entirely accurate.

Despite being fairly simple, rules wise, it can be very, very difficult to teach. I'm fond of a quote I heard on Boardgame Geek... something along the lines of "I once watched 3 people telling a new person how to play Tichu. It was like watching a bunch of teens kick a hobo."



> #37: Crokinole - a Canadian dexterity game using a wooden board, pegs and balls. I think.




Discs, actually. I've never played it either, but from what I understand you try to flick discs into the inner ring, which is surrounded by pins which block you, and there's a hole in the very center that's worth extra points if you can get a disc to fall into it.



MerricB said:


> #47: Modern Art - it's an auction game, but that's about all I know about it.




It's the only auction game I've played which is literally an auction game. The components leave something to be desired, but the gameplay is fantastic. I'm a big fan of it. I've got a friend who's hilariously bad at it, though, and refuses to play it.


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## Korgoth (Dec 20, 2008)

Ah... Avalon Hill's Dune. Now _there's_ a boardgame, eh?

My favorite little mechanical set is the alternate victory conditions that some of the factions have. For example, the Guild wins if nobody else wins at the end of the game... they have preserved the status quo. So the Guild doesn't have to play for a direct victory; they can just play spoiler the whole time.

Likewise, the Bene Gesserit get to predict a winner and the turn he wins; if they're right then that player instead loses and the Bene Gesserit win. Great if you like to play mind games with people. The BG really help the Atreides on turn 3, so the others assume that they predicted his win on turn 4. So on turn 4, they all dogpile the Atreides. But this leaves several factions open, and so the Emperor is able to swoop in and win handily on turn 5... which is what the BG really predicted and so steal the win.


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## The Prophet (Dec 21, 2008)

Hey Merric

Trying to establish a little BGG beachead here at ENWorld I see, he he... 

Cool, cool... 

As for me, I have 5 of the top 10...

*Agricola (1)*
- Played only once. Great game. Send your family to work to grow your farm. So much to do, so little time.

*Puerto Rico (2)*
- Haven’t played this one yet. I don’t know, it never seems to come up with our group.

*Dominion (6)*
- Instant hit with everyone I’ve played up to now. Simple mechanics, great replayability.

*El Grande (7)*
- Played once & went & bought the Decennial Ed. Great game. Instant favorite.

*Race for the Galaxy (9)*
- Disapointed by the expansion set. I don’t like the solo version & a few cards, some new objectives, isn’t much for the price.

... and 15 of the top 100

*Shogun (17)*
- Just played my 1st game today. Very fun. A personal favorite for me now. The battle tower worked great. Took longer to play than I tought but one player had a small case of AP.

*Pandemic (24)*
- Coop game. Very hard. Played 4 solo games up to now & won only one, on the very last turn, no more cards in the player’s pile, the dispatcher curing the *YELLOW* fever, getting the 5th card from the Op. Expert.

*Twilight Imperium (3ème Édition) (29)*
- Mammoth space civ game. Personal favorite. Not as long to play that it’s made to be. Last game I played lasted 6 hours, including setup, explaining the rules to 3 newbies, playing & putting the whole thing back in the box.

*Go (30)*
- The perfect game. Anything else is but a pale imitation.  Yes, I like it that much.

*Arkham Horror (55)*
- As a Cthulhu mythos & Lovecraft fan, I could not pass on this. Cthulhu Talisman! Coop game. Explore locations to get clues, items & other bonuses, fight monsters, close gates & hope you won’t face the GOO at the end.

*Carcassonne (56)*
- Another game I like very much. Have all the expansions, except the catapult. Simple game to play with all.

*Civilization (68)*
- Well Advanced CIV I should say. This one takes a long time, 8-10 hours, more if you let the traiding linger on. Needs 7 commited, serious gamers.

*In the Year of the Dragon (66)*
- Try to manage one of the worst year in the kingdom history as Plagues, Invasions, Droughts & more will strike. Resource & action managment game.

*Fury of Dracula (96)*
- Haven’t played this one yet. Semi-Coop game, hunters vs. Dracula. Interesting mechanic to allow the Vampire to move unseen.

*RoboRally (1ère Édition) (99)*
- A favorite. Have all the extra boards. Great race-demolition-derby-obstacle-course game. You can make it as long/short, nasty/friendly, simple/complex as you want. And watching your friends twisting in all direction on their chair trying to figure out where they are going is a bonus...


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## Korgoth (Dec 21, 2008)

MerricB said:


> #34: Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear - a very new "light-medium" wargame. Lovely components; uses action points for activation and cards for interesting modifiers during the game. It's a good introduction to WW2 wargames.




Have you played this one, Merric? I'd be interested to hear what you think of it, as a budding ASLer (not a phrase that has been said often in the past decade!). CoH looks really interesting to me.

The things that put me off might strike some as superficial: I'm into the East Front but not so much Barbarossa. Too one-sided. I'm more for Stalingrad, Kursk and Bagration. Also, it doesn't look like there are any winter maps, and although it covers through '42 there's evidently nothing about Stalingrad.

Still, it looks like "ASL lite" or "ASL for ADD", which is right up my alley. If I hear good things, I might plunge in for the second installment, which covers the east front in 43-45... that's a bit more fun of a period for me (well, '43-'44 anyway).

Of course, on the Stalingrad issue... they could probably do a whole supplement just for that. Finland might be interesting, too. And Operation Cobra. And Sicily. Man... they could do a lot with this if they get going.


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## Gundark (Dec 21, 2008)

MerricB said:


> Yay! With the delivery of Dominion yesterday, I now have the top 10 boardgames on BGG!




And how is Dominion? It's on my list of games to get. I've read the reviews on BBG, however it's always nice to hear more opinions on it.


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## MerricB (Dec 21, 2008)

Gundark said:


> And how is Dominion? It's on my list of games to get. I've read the reviews on BBG, however it's always nice to hear more opinions on it.




I enjoyed my first game of it on Saturday, but I really need to play more games of it to form a proper opinion.

It's fast, though. Our 2-player game played in about 20 minutes; and there was real tension as Randy and I got to buying VP cards - you really need to pay attention to what your opponent(s) are doing there. Looks like a huge amount of variety in the game: there are slightly over 3.2 million combinations of starting stacks possible. (You play each game with 10 of 25 stacks).

Cheers!


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## Shade (Dec 24, 2008)

My group absolutely loves Agricola and Power Grid, but we seem to have just as much fun with the much lower-rated Last Night on Earth and Talisman.  And Carcassonne is always a good time.


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## Asmor (Dec 24, 2008)

Shade said:


> My group absolutely loves Agricola and Power Grid, but we seem to have just as much fun with the much lower-rated Last Night on Earth and Talisman.  And Carcassonne is always a good time.




Ultimately, the ratings don't mean a lot. It's important to keep that in mind. I sometimes find myself unfairly biased against games simply because they have low ratings on the geek.

In particular, BGG tends to rate highly games where skill, strategy and tactics are all vastly more important than luck. This isn't a hard rule of course, but it is a strong tendency.

It took me a long time to realize that it's okay to play a games of luck, dexterity, memorization, etc. They're not bad games, just different games.


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## Korgoth (Dec 24, 2008)

Another thing about ratings: ratings are often going to be from people who bought the game. A lot of times, only those who are already going to like a game (or at least are predisposed to liking it) will buy it. For example, few people will shell out $100 for Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition unless they already like the basics of the game. Likewise, few people will plunk down $60-70 for a theme-lite Euro of order taking with little wooden blocks unless you already like those things.

The ratings aren't useless, but if you don't read between the lines they're not really going to be very meaningful because a lot of times the set of people giving the ratings will already be skewed to a particular direction. Likewise, some people rate games without even playing them so the fewer the ratings, the less potentially meaningful (some will give a game a 10 because they highly anticipate it and think it's going to be the cat's pajamas).


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## MerricB (Dec 25, 2008)

Korgoth said:


> Have you played this one, Merric? I'd be interested to hear what you think of it, as a budding ASLer (not a phrase that has been said often in the past decade!). CoH looks really interesting to me.




It's fun, but after only two games, I'm still learning the system. It used a programmed instruction set, which is great, but it means I haven't even scratched the surface.

Lighter than either CC:E or ASL (of course!). Heavier than M44. More fun than Tide of Iron... but I really don't like that game. Way too fiddly!

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Dec 25, 2008)

Korgoth said:


> The ratings aren't useless, but if you don't read between the lines they're not really going to be very meaningful because a lot of times the set of people giving the ratings will already be skewed to a particular direction. Likewise, some people rate games without even playing them so the fewer the ratings, the less potentially meaningful (some will give a game a 10 because they highly anticipate it and think it's going to be the cat's pajamas).




The best tool on BGG is "Personalised Recommendations" - you'll find it under your Game Ratings on your profile. It matches your ratings with those of other people who rated similiarly, and then gives you the list of games you might enjoy.

So, if you rate random/theme games like Last Night on Earth and Talisman highly, you'll be matched with other people who like those sort of games and gain recommendations thereby.

For me, I get a real grab-bag of games... but I like a lot of different games (Eurogames, Milsims and Ameritheme), so that's no surprise. 

Cheers!


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## Victim (Dec 25, 2008)

Korgoth said:


> Another thing about ratings: ratings are often going to be from people who bought the game. A lot of times, only those who are already going to like a game (or at least are predisposed to liking it) will buy it. For example, few people will shell out $100 for Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition unless they already like the basics of the game. Likewise, few people will plunk down $60-70 for a theme-lite Euro of order taking with little wooden blocks unless you already like those things.
> 
> The ratings aren't useless, but if you don't read between the lines they're not really going to be very meaningful because a lot of times the set of people giving the ratings will already be skewed to a particular direction. Likewise, some people rate games without even playing them so the fewer the ratings, the less potentially meaningful (some will give a game a 10 because they highly anticipate it and think it's going to be the cat's pajamas).




As usual, reading why something has some N rating is more useful than seeing what the rating is.


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## Thanee (Dec 25, 2008)

MerricB said:


> #36: Wallenstein - a hybrid Euro/Wargame set in Russia - it was later reimplemented as the highly ranked Shogun. This one is out of print and hard to get; I haven't played it.




It's actually set in middle europe (today the region is covered by germany, austria, czech republic) at the beginning of the Thirty Years' War. Russia is a bit further to the east. 

The game seems to be exactly the same as Shogun (maybe some minor tweaks) only with a different map. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Shadeydm (Dec 25, 2008)

Reading this thread brings back fond memories of playing games like Conquest of the Empire, Axis and Allies, and Fortress America. Those were good times. Does anyone still make games like those anymore? I think I still have a copy of A&A in a box in my basment somewhere.


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## MerricB (Dec 25, 2008)

Shadeydm said:


> Reading this thread brings back fond memories of playing games like Conquest of the Empire, Axis and Allies, and Fortress America. Those were good times. Does anyone still make games like those anymore? I think I still have a copy of A&A in a box in my basment somewhere.




They certainly do. My friend, Randy, has about 5 versions of Axis and Allies - Avalon Hill (Wizards/Hasbro) have kept that one alive.

Fantasy Flight Games is the most likely company to do the big box & lots of plastic figures games - games like Starcraft and Twilight Imperium.

Eagle Games reimplemented Conquest of the Empire a few years ago; we have that one.

Fortress America is not really a game I'm familiar with, though I know the name. 

Cheers!


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## Korgoth (Dec 26, 2008)

MerricB said:


> It's fun, but after only two games, I'm still learning the system. It used a programmed instruction set, which is great, but it means I haven't even scratched the surface.
> 
> Lighter than either CC:E or ASL (of course!). Heavier than M44. More fun than Tide of Iron... but I really don't like that game. Way too fiddly!
> 
> Cheers!




Thanks for the report. I'm looking forward to learning more about this game in the future.


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## Kingbreaker (Dec 26, 2008)

I'm very interested in trying A Game of Thrones.

Cosmic Encounter is a great, great game if you can tolerate some randomness. Dune is a keeper too.


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## Enforcer (Dec 28, 2008)

Despite having all three boxes of A Game of Thrones (the original plus the two expansions), I've only gotten to play it twice (one 3-person game, one 5-person game). So the jury's still out. I'm just too big a fan of the books not to own the games.

A while back someone was developing an online version, but that probably got killed by lawyers.


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## masshysteria (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm appalled by the complete lack of discussion regarding Twilight Struggle in this thread. It is easily my number 1 (noticed MerricB rated it the same).

I've never played a board game with such drama and tension. It is fantastic! The cold war theme is great and it works wonderfully with the influence mechanics. The cards themselves are also great, from the presentation to the effects.

Definitely recommend it to wargamers or boardgamers looking for something unique, but challenging and fun.


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## DonTadow (Feb 18, 2009)

masshysteria said:


> I'm appalled by the complete lack of discussion regarding Twilight Struggle in this thread. It is easily my number 1 (noticed MerricB rated it the same).
> 
> I've never played a board game with such drama and tension. It is fantastic! The cold war theme is great and it works wonderfully with the influence mechanics. The cards themselves are also great, from the presentation to the effects.
> 
> Definitely recommend it to wargamers or boardgamers looking for something unique, but challenging and fun.




I like twilight strugle, but it could never be number 1, simply because it is a 2 player game and has a long setup time for a two player game. Whereas Agricola is not my favorite game (that will always be held by die macher), i can see why it is a highly rated game. Its pretty flawless from a mechanical point of view.


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## Asmor (Feb 18, 2009)

I finally got a chance to play Agricola on Monday. Pretty good game. Definitely more deserving of the #1 spot than Puerto Rico. We played a 4-player game with 2 experienced players and 2 newbies (including myself). I came in 3rd.

Also got a chance to play Tigris & Euphrates yesterday which, despite being my favorite game, I've only played 3 times now. It was a 3-player game, one other player (Dan) had played it before though I'm not sure how experienced he was. The other (Derek) was completely new to it. Derek was rocking the treasures and won with 8 points. I got 7 and would have gotten 8 if I'd had 1 more treasure. Dan got screwed on green and only got 2 points.


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## MerricB (Feb 18, 2009)

Asmor said:


> I finally got a chance to play Agricola on Monday. Pretty good game. Definitely more deserving of the #1 spot than Puerto Rico. We played a 4-player game with 2 experienced players and 2 newbies (including myself). I came in 3rd.




Agricola is great fun, although I'm great at sabotaging myself. 



> Also got a chance to play Tigris & Euphrates yesterday which, despite being my favorite game, I've only played 3 times now. It was a 3-player game, one other player (Dan) had played it before though I'm not sure how experienced he was. The other (Derek) was completely new to it. Derek was rocking the treasures and won with 8 points. I got 7 and would have gotten 8 if I'd had 1 more treasure. Dan got screwed on green and only got 2 points.




I've been happily teaching my class of y10 school kids Tigris & Euphrates this week. You really need to build monuments to win... but protecting them is kind of hard.

Last game I played, I used someone else's kingdom to build the monument, thus denuding them of green tiles. Then I took it over. That was fun!

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Feb 18, 2009)

DonTadow said:


> I like twilight strugle, but it could never be number 1, simply because it is a 2 player game and has a long setup time for a two player game.




Twilight Struggle is my #1 game, and though it has a relatively long play time (2-3 hours), the set-up time is quite short; less than many other games in my experience, and certainly less than Agricola. Not quite sure why you say it has a long set-up time. 

Cheers!


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## FriarRosing (Feb 18, 2009)

I've only played Twilight Struggle a handful of times, but so far it seems pretty cool. I understand why so many people like it. I also got 1960: The Making of the President, since I heard it was similar, and sounded like it might fit my tastes a tad better. After playing both, I find I like Twilight Struggle better. I have the same problem with both games, though, which is that I'm not very good at them.


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## MerricB (Feb 18, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> I've only played Twilight Struggle a handful of times, but so far it seems pretty cool. I understand why so many people like it. I also got 1960: The Making of the President, since I heard it was similar, and sounded like it might fit my tastes a tad better. After playing both, I find I like Twilight Struggle better. I have the same problem with both games, though, which is that I'm not very good at them.




You'll get better. 

Here's a a short session report of TS to amuse you:
Our shortest game yet! | Twilight Struggle | BoardGameGeek

1960 doesn't engage me the same way as TS; I personally think the mechanics are nowhere near as good. In TS, you've got a bunch of hand management going on, and card cycling is important. In 1960, it's once through the deck and some elements (like media) don't properly gel with the rest of the game.

Cheers!


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## FriarRosing (Feb 18, 2009)

MerricB said:


> You'll get better.
> 
> Here's a a short session report of TS to amuse you:
> Our shortest game yet! | Twilight Struggle | BoardGameGeek
> ...




I definitely agree about 1960, for the most part. I do kind of like the drawing cubes instead of rolling dice, but other than that Twilight Struggle is certainly superior. I do like any game where you can play as Nixon, though.

With Twilight Struggle, the only thing that keeps me from suggesting it very often is how long it takes. For whatever reason, I prefer two player games to be shorter. It's only if there are multiple people that I like it to go for very long. Of course, a long game of Twilight Struggle isn't necessarily always going to be the case, as your session report illustrates!

Every time I've played TS I've gotten stomped. I've only played it a handful of times since I've bought it, but each time I've felt somewhat overwhelmed by my choices, and I've had a hard time decided exactly what I wanted to do. Also, it didn't help that in those games I wasn't very familiar with the cards, which is something I've gotten better about.


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## DonTadow (Feb 21, 2009)

MerricB said:


> Twilight Struggle is my #1 game, and though it has a relatively long play time (2-3 hours), the set-up time is quite short; less than many other games in my experience, and certainly less than Agricola. Not quite sure why you say it has a long set-up time.
> 
> Cheers!



.  Placing all the little pieces  on the board, for a two player game is kinda of cumbersome.  Look at something like Dominion which has at most a 5 minute setup. Twilight's other problem is the quality of components and the shabby board.  The card stock is low for a game that is primary card playing and the board requires a half dozen books to keep straight. It seemed like there were easier ways to do without all the pieces.


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## MerricB (Feb 22, 2009)

DonTadow said:


> .  Placing all the little pieces  on the board, for a two player game is kinda of cumbersome.  Look at something like Dominion which has at most a 5 minute setup. Twilight's other problem is the quality of components and the shabby board.  The card stock is low for a game that is primary card playing and the board requires a half dozen books to keep straight. It seemed like there were easier ways to do without all the pieces.




The board is getting the mounted treatment in the next edition. I wonder if you have a lower-quality card deck than I have, since my TS cards (and Randy's set) are as durable as any game I've seen; they're really good and on a pretty heavy card stock!

I count that each player needs to place about 12 counters on the board, plus 6 information markers. That's not that many and shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes.

Cheers!


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## FriarRosing (Feb 23, 2009)

DonTadow said:


> .  Placing all the little pieces  on the board, for a two player game is kinda of cumbersome.  Look at something like Dominion which has at most a 5 minute setup. Twilight's other problem is the quality of components and the shabby board.  The card stock is low for a game that is primary card playing and the board requires a half dozen books to keep straight. It seemed like there were easier ways to do without all the pieces.




My only problem is with my board lying flat, but it's good enough that it's not really big deal. Otherwise, I don't see very many criticisms. I mean, it's not super attractive, but it's certainly not hideous. 

Also, I know of plenty of other 2 player games that have much more involved set up.


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