# Best monk weapon (for dealing damage)?



## Lamoni (Jun 14, 2004)

We are starting a new campaign at 9th level.  There will be a monk in our party, but it is difficult to find a weapon that might be useful.  The monk will have a monk's belt, and possibly take the Fists of Iron feat.  That means that she will do between 2D6+3 and 3D6+3 damage while unarmed.  Are there any weapons that can match that?  Or should she only carry a weapon for overcoming different types of damage reduction (and take a slashing cold iron weapon for example)?

If she was specializing in tripping or disarming, would there be a good choice of weapon for that?

Right now, it is very tempting to just ignore the weapon and dump all the starting wealth into other items.  I'd like to know if I should convince her to not give up on the weapon.

Feel free to quote weapons from any printed source, but please mention where it is from if it isn't in the DMG/PHB.


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## Elder-Basilisk (Jun 14, 2004)

You'll be hard pressed to find ANY weapon as good as the monk's fists at 9th level. Unless you house-rule monk weapons to include things like flaming greatswords, you won't find any monk weapons as good at damaging as the monk's fists. (I believe the Order of the Blade--Living Arcanis Rules Compendium allows certain monks to treat the longsword as a monk weapon). Single classed monks should primarily use unarmed strikes for damage--occasionally using weapons to overcome DR. 

If she were specialized in disarming, the Sai would be a good choice and I believe the kama would be a good choice for tripping (though multiclassing just enough to get proficiency with a flail or halberd or spending a feat on a spiked chain would also be good for tripping).


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## Kalendraf (Jun 14, 2004)

Nothing compares with a monk's open hand attacks.  However, that doesn't mean they should give up on finding ways to augment their attack and damage potential.

Though not technically weapons, gauntlets that can be crafted to further augment the monk's primary open hand attacks.

In my campaign, I designed a set of gauntlets for monks known as Sparkgloves.  They allow the user to cast Shocking Grasp some number of times per day.  The 2 variables on these gauntlets is the uses per day (typically 1 to 5) and the caster level of the spell (again, 1 to 5).  The set I handed out were caster level 2, 3 uses per day.  Activating them requires a standard action, but the charge (like the spell) can be kept for a long time, and it doesn't discharge until a successful melee attack is made.  Usually the monk charges it up at prior to the next fight, then gets in 1 big hit on his first successful punch.  Usually, he doesn't spend another charge during a fight, preferring to continue attacking instead.  We rule that he can't keep the charge overnight, and touching anything else (climbing, etc) discharges it as well. 

The cost for such gloves works out to be:

1 (spell level) x CL x 2000gp / (5 / charges per day)

which reduces to: CL x charges per day x 400 gp.

So the example pair from above came out to be 2400 gp.  A set with max CL of 5 and 5 uses per day would cost 10000 gp.

FYI, we dropped the whole +3 to hit opponents in metal armor aspect of shocking grasp, since it became more complicated than I intended it to be leading to cases where the punch/kick missed, but the shock was still delivered.  Yuck...  Just call the loss of that ability a limitation of the gauntlets.

Also, the items could be crafted using another item besides gauntlets, but that seemed the most likely item slot for this.  The standard 50% cost increase for non-standard slot or 100% increase for non-slotted item should be used for other kinds of items.

You can take other low-level combat spells and use them to make similar monk-enhancing items as well.


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## Tetsubo (Jun 15, 2004)

Kalendraf said:
			
		

> Nothing compares with a monk's open hand attacks.  However, that doesn't mean they should give up on finding ways to augment their attack and damage potential.
> 
> Though not technically weapons, gauntlets that can be crafted to further augment the monk's primary open hand attacks.
> 
> ...





This is a good idea. And one that I have been playing with. But wouldn't it be easier to just have gauntlets with a weapons enhancement added to them rather than a specific spell? So you could have Shocking or Flaming gaunlets rather than Shocking Grasp or a fire spell. The gauntlets would need to be masterwork and have a +1 magical bonus but is that a bad thing?


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## cignus_pfaccari (Jun 15, 2004)

Tetsubo said:
			
		

> This is a good idea. And one that I have been playing with. But wouldn't it be easier to just have gauntlets with a weapons enhancement added to them rather than a specific spell? So you could have Shocking or Flaming gaunlets rather than Shocking Grasp or a fire spell. The gauntlets would need to be masterwork and have a +1 magical bonus but is that a bad thing?




Or take Bracers of Striking from Magic of Faerun, and assume they apply to the monk's unarmed attack.

If the monk has Power Attack, a +1 Ki Focus/+1 Ki Focus quarterstaff is a nice investment, so that he might get more oomph out in a hit.  Mine calls his the Rod of Discipline.  

Brad


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## Kalendraf (Jun 15, 2004)

Tetsubo said:
			
		

> This is a good idea. And one that I have been playing with. But wouldn't it be easier to just have gauntlets with a weapons enhancement added to them rather than a specific spell? So you could have Shocking or Flaming gaunlets rather than Shocking Grasp or a fire spell. The gauntlets would need to be masterwork and have a +1 magical bonus but is that a bad thing?




You can take that route as well, I guess, though since there aren't any enchanted gloves in the base DMG, not all DM's may allow it.  I actually like having the characters get or craft custom Wondrous Items, but I'm not quite as lenient on weapons and armor.  So if someone were to come up to me and suggest +1 Monk Gauntlets, I'd probably say no.  But that's just me.

While I'm on the topic, I should mention that I made a minor artifact for the monk in this campaign (same guy with the sparkgloves) which is story-related.  It's called the Staff of Harmony and it scales in power with the monk who wields it.  Some of the nifty abilities it gains and improve with the level of the monk include Sonic damage, Sonic resistance for the wielder, Improved Sunder ability and at very high levels it can create a short term zone of anti-magic.  If anyone is interested, I can dig out the item and post it (likely in a non-rules forum).


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## DanMcS (Jun 15, 2004)

Sai are good for disarming (monk, and they're finessable, they're small but the +4 bonus to disarm with them cancels that penalty out).  You can throw them, even as part of a flurry.

Kama give a bonus to trip.

My favorite monk weapon is the sling.  +1 with maybe some elemental enchantment for 8000 gp, and you've got a not-too-shabby ranged weapon.  Oil of Magic Stone is 50 gp per.

Siangham are useless unless you're making a monk/duelist.

Take the feat and describe it as a multi-section staff and a spiked chain becomes fairly entertaining.


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## Kalendraf (Jun 15, 2004)

DanMcS said:
			
		

> My favorite monk weapon is the sling.  +1 with maybe some elemental enchantment for 8000 gp, and you've got a not-too-shabby ranged weapon.  Oil of Magic Stone is 50 gp per.




This brings up a good point.  Many of the monk's abilities revolve around their ability to decimate foes in melee, but they have very little to help when forced into ranged combat (flying enemies, etc).  Rather than just stand around, possibly deflecting a few arrows coming your way, why not take pot shots at the enemy instead.  Chances are the monk has a decent BAB and dex bonus, making them fairly accurate at ranged combat as well.  Either the sling or crossbow works, although at higher levels, the 1-shot-per-round limitation of the crossbow or sling (loading is move equivalent) will be a problem, and it's probably not worth burning feats for rapid reload unless you really really want to.  If you're going to burn a feat, it's probably better to go for composite long bow so you can get a Mighty bow that takes advantage of your strength instead.  I've never been very impressed by the damage from the sling, but maybe the Magic Stone trick is enough to make it respectable as well.


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 15, 2004)

Kalendraf said:
			
		

> If you're going to burn a feat, it's probably better to go for composite long bow so you can get a Mighty bow that takes advantage of your strength instead.




Don't forget you can use Flurry of Blows with thrown sai or shuriken.  Base damage isn't great, but you can apply your Str bonus _without_ spending hundreds of gp on a specially-designed composite bow...

-Hyp.


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## UltimaGabe (Jun 15, 2004)

If you're looking for plain damage dealing with a Monk weapon, I'd suggest the War Fan from the Arms & Equipment Guide. It has 1d6 base damage (just like the Nunchaku, Kama, and Siangham), but it has a x3 crit. Plus, there's some sort of bluff thing you can do with it as well.


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## Kalendraf (Jun 15, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Don't forget you can use Flurry of Blows with thrown sai or shuriken.  Base damage isn't great, but you can apply your Str bonus _without_ spending hundreds of gp on a specially-designed composite bow...
> 
> -Hyp.




With a range of only 10' and a mere 1d2 damage per, it's hard to compare shurikens to long bows, or even crossbows and slings for that matter.  Sure you can throw them fast and get your strength bonus on each, but a monk probably doesn't need a short distance ranged weapon as badly as a longer ranged one.

Consider a situation where there's an enemy spellcaster hovering a few hundred feet above the battlefield, and the rest of the party is laying around you unconscious from the affects of previous spells or battle.  I'd hate to be stuck trying to chuck shurikens to bring him down.

The bow might cost you a bit of gold, but a few hundred or even a thousand isn't going to break the monk's purse in a typical campaign.  In fact, since they don't have to buy much in the way of weapons or armor compared to most other characters, it should be fairly easy to afford.


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## Nifft (Jun 15, 2004)

Quarterstaff + Power Attack. Charge + two-handed Power Attack, then follow up next round with a Flurry (of feet, or with the quarterstaff). You can also get both heads enhanced separately -- the classic being one Flaming head and one Frost head, or one Holy and one Axiomatic.

 -- N


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 15, 2004)

Kalendraf said:
			
		

> The bow might cost you a bit of gold, but a few hundred or even a thousand isn't going to break the monk's purse in a typical campaign.  In fact, since they don't have to buy much in the way of weapons or armor compared to most other characters, it should be fairly easy to afford.




On the other hand, it could be said that the weapons and armor they _do_ want to buy (Bracers of Striking, reslotted Bracers of Armor) are more expensive than the alternatives available (since Bracers of Striking are more expensive than normal magic weapons, and 64k for a +8 Armor bonus is somewhat higher than under 2k for the same from a non-magical suit of armor...)... and hence they have _less_ spare cash available...

-Hyp.


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## Sejs (Jun 15, 2004)

> With a range of only 10' and a mere 1d2 damage per




Shuriken arn't made to do damage.  They're made to deliver a whole lot of poison at range.

It's not the Xd2 damage that's there to give the mage pause, it's the X fort saves he's got to make to avoid succumbing to the con poison.


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## Shadowdweller (Jun 15, 2004)

I'm not especially fond of the sai, seeing as how even with the bonus it is no better at disarming than your basic medium size weapon.  Unless, that is, one chooses to go the weapon finesse route or wishes to disarm opponents extensively while grappling them (not an very useful tactic).  Use unarmed strikes instead (which have the benefit of putting the weapon directly into YOUR hands) or a quarterstaff if you're really keen on maximizing the opposed roll.

Regarding trip:  What people haven't mentioned so far is that the main benefit of using a weapon to trip is that if the enemy succeeds on all rolls you end up disarmed rather than prone yourself.  It's pretty painless to keep a kama or other tripping weapon on hand to use ONLY for trip attacks.  Also note:  The only thing a proficiency penalty hurts is the opening touch attack to start a trip.  A reach weapon might thus be handy, but it's definitely NOT worth multiclassing to pick up proficiency.

Regarding damage reduction: Often times, this CAN hurt.  I'm not sure I'd invest in powerful melee weapons as a monk, but it's relatively inexpensive to simply purchase a masterwork silver kama and a masterwork cold iron kama...just in case.  In any event, check with the DM regarding KI Strike: Magic and incorporeality.  It's possible you're either going to want at least a +1 weapon, amulet of mighty fists (DMG, starting at 6,000 gp), or that Savage Species equivalent (amulet of natural attacks?) since the game designers in their infinite wisdom neglected to state that ki strike:magic applies to anything BESIDES damage reduction (i.e. incorporeality).


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## Trainz (Jun 15, 2004)

There's an amulet in the DMG that gives from +1 to +5 to a monk's attack and damage (from 6000 to 150000 gp value IIRC).

Is it possible to replace the plusses into magical weapon enhancements ? So that a +5 amulet is instead made into a +3 _holy _amulet ?

You see, one of my players is an epic monk... he'd like to know, I'm sure !


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 15, 2004)

Trainz said:
			
		

> Is it possible to replace the plusses into magical weapon enhancements ?




No, but that's exactly what Bracers of Striking are for (Magic of Faerun, I think?).

-Hyp.


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## Kyamsil (Jun 15, 2004)

The Necklace of Natural Weapons (from Savage Species) allows you to put enhancement bonuses and special abilities that apply to a determinate number of natural weapons (depending on how much you want to spend on the necklace). Usually, I guess a monk can save some money from just improving 2 weapons: right fist, left foot or another combination of your choice. 

The description of the item mentions a rather weird combination of abilities: +1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons... I just can't envision the monk sending his fist to his opponent face and then the fist returning in the next round... it is weird, really weird.

Favorite enhancements for a monk should be: 
ghost touch (+1, DMG, ignore incoroporeality)
metalline (+2, FR Underdark, can change to any metal as standard action)
energy aura (+3, Arms&Equipment Guide, can deal +1d6 of selected energy type)
force (+3, Arms&Equipment Guide, +1d6 force damage, chance of dispelling existing foce effects, ignores incorporeality)
impact (+1, Arms&Equipment Guide, doubles threat range of bludgeoning weapon)

a +1 ghost touch necklace of natural weapons that affects 2 natural weapons costs 16600 gp. 

I think that if you talki it out with your DM you should be able to get special abilities added to an amulet of mighty fists if you want to affect all natural weapons without spending too much money.


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 15, 2004)

Kyamsil said:
			
		

> The description of the item mentions a rather weird combination of abilities: +1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons... I just can't envision the monk sending his fist to his opponent face and then the fist returning in the next round... it is weird, really weird.




That's not weird.

Weird is using it against someone with Snatch Arrows.

-Hyp.


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## Trainz (Jun 15, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> No, but that's exactly what Bracers of Striking are for (Magic of Faerun, I think?).
> 
> -Hyp.



Drat, we don't have (and don't plan to get) this book.

Oh well... thanks Hyp.


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## Kalendraf (Jun 15, 2004)

Sejs said:
			
		

> Shuriken arn't made to do damage.  They're made to deliver a whole lot of poison at range.
> 
> It's not the Xd2 damage that's there to give the mage pause, it's the X fort saves he's got to make to avoid succumbing to the con poison.




Depending on your DM, the use of poison may be considered evil.  Of course there's plenty of evil monks around.

By the rules, you can just as easily poison any weapon, so shurikens vs. arrows or bolts aren't better/worse in terms of poison application.  Shurikens still have that short range problem though.  Good luck reaching the flying wizard 300' above the battlefield.  With a comp long bow (110' range), that's only 2 range penalties away (-4 per shot), and with a lt. crossbow (80' range) its 3 penalties away (-6 per shot).  Those penalties are substantial, but the wizard is still hittable.  On the other hand, the Shuriken (10' range) is 29 range penalties away, but never mind the boggling -58 penalty that would incur as you can't even throw a hurled weapon like a shuriken more than 5 range increments.


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 15, 2004)

Trainz said:
			
		

> Drat, we don't have (and don't plan to get) this book.




If you do a search on "Bracers of Striking" in the Rules Forum, you might be able to figure out most of the details 

-Hyp.


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## tarchon (Jun 16, 2004)

Kyamsil said:
			
		

> The description of the item mentions a rather weird combination of abilities: +1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons... I just can't envision the monk sending his fist to his opponent face and then the fist returning in the next round... it is weird, really weird.



I had a Shogun Warrior toy like that.

From my monk-playing experience, I disdain monk weapons generally.  They were only useful for DR penetration (when ki strike was much higher in level) and for hitting monsters which were not advisably touched, like remorhazes and various oozes.  Q-staff might be more useful since you can do it two-handed.  I also recommend, if it's not too much trouble to learn, some type of reach weapon so you can get AoOs on approaching foes, especially fun if you have a guisarme, Imp Trip, and Combat Reflexes.  Monks have the advantage of not needing to drop the reach weapon or draw another weapon to fight adjacent foes, so it can be pretty handy.


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## tarchon (Jun 16, 2004)

Sejs said:
			
		

> Shuriken arn't made to do damage.  They're made to deliver a whole lot of poison at range.
> 
> It's not the Xd2 damage that's there to give the mage pause, it's the X fort saves he's got to make to avoid succumbing to the con poison.




Eh, I even had +1 returning shurikens and about the only thing useful I could get out of them was forcing low DC Conc checks from enemy casters.  Most of the time, with monk speed, Tumble, and Jump, it was more effective to hurl myself than a missile weapon.

Poison would work if you were of that persuasion.


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## LadyRylle (Jun 28, 2004)

*Mysterious Monk's Belt*

I could use some help/advice from other's who have been playing a monk for longer than I.

I've got a Monk5/Tattooed Monk 1, and she's doing well, but I'm really wanting to buy her a monk's belt. I keep hearing about them and reading about them, but in 3 years, I've never actually come across one in an AR. 

Assuming that I'm not having hallucinations, can anyone give me a hint about how someone might gain access to such an item?

Thanks bunches.


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 28, 2004)

LadyRylle said:
			
		

> I keep hearing about them and reading about them, but in 3 years, I've never actually come across one in an AR.




... AR...?

-Hyp.


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## Caliban (Jun 28, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> ... AR...?
> 
> -Hyp.



I'm guessing that they mean an "Adventure Record", a book keeping device used in the Living Greyhawk RPGA campaign.   After you complete an Living Greyhawk module all the players get a sheet of paper called an "Adventure Record".   This records how much time the adventure took your character to complete, how much XP and Gold your character gained, and lists any magical items you found in the module and can now purchase .   (Basically there is a mini magic shop at the end of each adventure.  Any items, magical or otherwise, found in the module are sold and the money divided evenly between the characters, then the characters have a chance to "buy back" the items, or any other items they have access to from previous adventures.)


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## Caliban (Jun 28, 2004)

LadyRylle said:
			
		

> I could use some help/advice from other's who have been playing a monk for longer than I.
> 
> I've got a Monk5/Tattooed Monk 1, and she's doing well, but I'm really wanting to buy her a monk's belt. I keep hearing about them and reading about them, but in 3 years, I've never actually come across one in an AR.
> 
> ...



I don't think I've seen them in any Core modules,  but at least one Nyrond Regional module for year 4 has one available in it.  

Other than that, your best bet is to find a meta-org that gives access to it.


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 28, 2004)

Caliban said:
			
		

> After you complete an Living Greyhawk module all the players get a sheet of paper called an "Adventure Record". This records how much time the adventure took your character to complete, how much XP and Gold your character gained, and lists any magical items you found in the module and can now purchase .




So hunting down a mid-level wizard or cleric with CWI and Righteous Might or Tenser's Transformation in a big city and saying "I'll compensate you handsomely for your time, effort, and energies, with large quantities of shiny gold coins, if you make me one of _those_"... isn't permissible?

What if the caster in question is a PC?

-Hyp.


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## Caliban (Jun 28, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> So hunting down a mid-level wizard or cleric with CWI and Righteous Might or Tenser's Transformation in a big city and saying "I'll compensate you handsomely for your time, effort, and energies, with large quantities of shiny gold coins, if you make me one of _those_"... isn't permissible?
> 
> What if the caster in question is a PC?
> 
> -Hyp.



If you don't have an AR (or other campaign documentation) that says you know a wizard willing to do this for you, then you simply fail to find a wizard willing to take your money. They are all booked up on commisions already, or however you care to rationalize it. 

PC's cannot create items for other PC's or trade items to other PC's, period (you can loan items to them when you are adventuring together, but they can't keep it). There used to be a lot of abuse that occured in certain areas, and that eventually led to the current system in LG.

If you want to look over the Living Greyhawk Campaign Sourcebook, which has the rules for what you can and cannot do with your character and equipment, you can find it here:

http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LGCS_version3.zip


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 28, 2004)

Caliban said:
			
		

> If you don't have an AR (or other campaign documentation) that says you know a wizard willing to do this for you, then you simply fail to find a wizard willing to take your money. They are all booked up on commisions already, or however you care to rationalize it.




So if you do, in-game, find a suitable wizard with the ability to craft such an item, and the situation is such that he would agree, the DM will add it to the AR?

Or do DMs not have that authority?



> If you want to look over the Living Greyhawk Campaign Sourcebook...




Acrobat refuses to open it 

-Hyp.


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## Caliban (Jun 28, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> So if you do, in-game, find a suitable wizard with the ability to craft such an item, and the situation is such that he would agree, the DM will add it to the AR?
> 
> Or do DMs not have that authority?



DM's don't have that authority.  But since all adventures in LG are modules, if such a wizard appeared in the module, the module editor should put it on the AR. 




> Acrobat refuses to open it
> 
> -Hyp.



Really?  What version of Acrobat are you using?


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 28, 2004)

Caliban said:
			
		

> DM's don't have that authority.  But since all adventures in LG are modules, if such a wizard appeared in the module, the module editor should put it on the AR.




Hmm.



> Really?  What version of Acrobat are you using?




4.0.

I'll try it from work - 6.something there, I think.

-Hyp.


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## Deset Gled (Jun 28, 2004)

Kalendraf said:
			
		

> Though not technically weapons, gauntlets that can be crafted to further augment the monk's primary open hand attacks.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...




Technically, gauntlets are very much a weapon.  They have an entry under Weapon Descriptions, and appear on Table: Weapons.  More importantly, gauntlets are a simple weapon that the monk is not proficient with, and they are not monk weapons.  Consequently, a monk wearing gauntlets takes a -4 penalty to all attacks and cannot flurry.  Whether or not the monk with gauntlets deals 1d3 damage or unarmed damage, and whether or not Ki Strike applies is something I see as being slightly ambiguous do to the statement "A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack."  I would side with using 1d3 damage and no Ki Strike.

Now, if these were gloves, there'd be no problem at all.  Terminology can be pretty important.


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