# best battlemat?



## alsih2o (Aug 11, 2003)

i am in the market for a battlemat.

 would anyone reccomend the ne they purchased based on price or geberal greatness?


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## DanMcS (Aug 11, 2003)

I looked around quite a bit, but just this weekend sprung for one of those chessex wet-erase jobs.   It's a little over 2 feet by 2 feet, I got the 1 inch squares marked one, but they make double sided (with hexes and squares), and also much bigger ones.  It's thick and sturdy, I have a couple friends who have owned one for a year or more and neither show signs of wearing out, and the one I got was about 14 dollars.  Totally worth it.


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## Crothian (Aug 11, 2003)

I agree with Dan.  And how can two people from Columbus be wrong?


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## BiggusGeekus@Work (Aug 11, 2003)

I go with the Chessex Battlemat.  I got the fancy-schmancy kind with hexes on the back.  I wargame sometimes and various wargames require hexes, so for me paying the extra couple of bucks for a mat I can use for other games was worth it.

Be careful.  D&D requires 1-inch squares.  The battlemat with the 1 1/2-inch squares looks VERY similar and wasn't marked as such at least in my FLGS.  Its generally not the end of the world if someone gets the wrong scale, but since you have a branch industry in selling to scale clay models for terrain it would be a big deal.

Oh, and make sure you use the right kind of erasable markers.  Using dry-erase on a wet-erase mat is very bad.  Also, if you're drawing a diagram that's going to be on the mat for a long time, use blue or green.  Red and black have a small tendency to stain if they're left on for several hours.


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## Kid Charlemagne (Aug 11, 2003)

Beware the evil Sharpie!  Be vigiliant, lest it's tricksy permananence find its way to besmear your lovely battlemat!

I'll throw in with the Chessex folks.  I prefer the Chessex mats, as the marker seems to show up a little better than on the Crystal Caste.

That said, the difference is pretty minor.  The Crystal Caste mats don't fade with repeated cleaning at all, while the Chessex mats fade very little.  My Chessex mat has seen regular use for 4 or 5 years, and looks great.

If only someone would get a table big enough to handle the new 4' by 8' Chessex reversible mat....


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## Storminator (Aug 11, 2003)

Chessex wet-erase for me, very pleased with it.

And for wiping down a wet erase board, nothing beats baby wipes. Once with a baby wipe, once with a paper towel, instantly clean.

PS


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## Eye Tyrant (Aug 11, 2003)

*You've got one in the 3.5 DMG*

Unless you are one that doesn't want to change to 3.5 or just hasn't yet, the new DMG has a good sized battle grid. Since I only had the Chessex hex mat and wanted to use squares with the revised rules, I decided to just have the battle grid from the DMG laminated... Cost me 5 bucks and works great. Plus one side is color and has corridors/rooms and the other side is a black/white grid...


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## MadScientist (Aug 11, 2003)

Another word of warning. If you use dry erase boards at the gaming table, be very careful not to use dry-erase markers on your battlemap. I did that about a year ago and I still have many parts of the Sunless Citadel on my mega-mat!


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## Aluvial (Aug 11, 2003)

I use a dry-erase battle map.  My wife found one with a permanent 1" grid on it, when she comes home, I will see if I can find out where it came from.  

It is 4' X 3', and I will never look back.  I had the battle map for a while, but this thing really is the best I've seen.

I do recall it being a tad pricey, I'll ask her about that too.

How do you attach a picture?  I will post one if it is possible.

Aluvial


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## Geoffrey (Aug 11, 2003)

I just ordered a Chessex battlemat. Does it come with a special pen? If not, what kind of pen should I buy with which to mark on the battlemat?


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## diaglo (Aug 11, 2003)

how big?

plexiglass over a CAD map is nice if you have a large table.

but for ease, Chessex works.


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## King_Stannis (Aug 11, 2003)

Go all the way and get a Chessex Mega-Mat. It will cover most tables and comes in handy when you need to map out big sections of a dungeon without erasing.

You may think it's too big, but unless you have a tiny table, there is no such thing. When certain sections aren't in use, players just put their dice or books on it. 

Just make sure to control the markers for it - as others have said, certain ones will leave permanent marks. Vis a Vis, I believe they are called, work well. I've had mine since the inception of 3E and it is in terrific shape. Just make sure you give it a really good wipedown at the end of every session.


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## Holy Bovine (Aug 11, 2003)

Some Crayola 'washables' markers work great on my 2 friends Chessex and Crystal Caste mats (they get the mats I supply the pens).  _Do not_ use 'Sharpie' (that's the brand name) pens!  They never seem to come out no matter what kind you buy.  

For overall map performance (ie durability, legability and ease of transport/storage) I would go with Chessex over Crystal Caste.  Mainly on the legability issue.  With the Chessex map once over with the crayola marker and you have a nice bold, clean line.  With the Crystal Caste one we generally have to redraw areas repeatedly as the marker smears very easily. Of course with different markers this might not be a problem.


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## Aluvial (Aug 11, 2003)

Here is the big overveiw....  If I'm doing this right....

The grid looks weird because of the angle, but it is there.

Aluvial


_EDIT - altering the picture down a tad... 

Henry_


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## Aluvial (Aug 11, 2003)

Sorry about that size...  I'm not too adept at this obviously....

Aluvial


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## Drawmack (Aug 11, 2003)

http://www.chessex.com/mats/Battlemats_&_Megamats.htm

I use the chessex megamat with 1" squares (97147) for the main game and for when we split up I have four of the battle mats with 1" squares (96147).

For writting on my mats I have Chessex Markers 
http://www.chessex.com/Accessories/Accessories2.htm
(03154) The four colors come in handy for marking different things on the mat and they are garenteed not to stain which is the reason I pay the extra dollar for the official chessex markers over just having any old markers.

I also use the chessex glass markers, I have seven colors so different things can be different colors.

hmmm, would you say I'm a chessex fan?


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## kengar (Aug 11, 2003)

Why, obviously MY battlemat is the best!


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## TalonComics (Aug 11, 2003)

I have both Crystal Caste and Chessex mats. After using both I prefer the Chessex ones *but* they now only come in two sizes so I have to break out the Crystal Caste medium sized mat everyone once and a while.

~D


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## Leopold (Aug 11, 2003)

Chessex, megamat with hexes and not squares and numbers. Yes yes D&D requres squares but you can live without them and hexes is much simpler in looking at a game from every angle.

Get it with the numbers? Why? Because if/when you turn invis or fly you can just write the number of things that happen. Or if you have traps you can say "In hex 9871 there is trap X" and when they step on it you'll know. Makes suprises nasty!!


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## Krail Stromquism (Aug 11, 2003)

If you have the room, build your own!

for about 20 bucks you can make a kick ass 8x4 grided table top!

$8 for a 8x4 piece of tile board, preferably white.
$8-12 for Clear Contact Paper
$2-3 for sharpies.

now this is a real simple version.

draw a grid on the tile baord with the sharpies, then carefully cover it with the clear contact paper, which really isnt paper at all its palstic. once you do that. you can write on it with dry erase markers! HUZZAH!

Now if your cruisin around home depot you could always pick up a 1/2 inch peice of partical board and some 2x4s and make a real life table!

that may be too much commitment or too much for your wives/girlfriends to handle.

The tile board itself is only 1/4 to an 1/8 inch thick so itll have to go on top of some pre-existing tables. it will be very light, one person could muscle it from the dinner table to the garage very easliy. 

1/4 plywoods a bit heavier but we D&Ders need to excersize too.

at $8 a pop for the tile board and a little time put in on the grid you can afford to do some different things. You can buy different color tile board for different terrain. Brown, green or even blue or black. Sharpie makes a Silver marker now that would make a cool grid for blue or black.

Also, a tip for marker accidents, remember:

A dry erase marker will take off Permanent marker! just scribble on top of the perm marker and wait a sec and wipe off. I havent tried that on a battle mat though. but it works on the tile board, dry erase boards, floor tile, refridgerators and jsut about anything else.

word


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## Zander (Aug 11, 2003)

Crystal Caste all the way. Why? Because the guy who runs CC is a nice person, while the people who run Chessex stole $5000 from me.


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## Painfully (Aug 11, 2003)

You can also go to your local Office Depot and get one of those big easle pads.  Most of the time they have a 1" square grid on the back side.  If you need to make maps that you can save, this is a great way to do it.  They sell bleed-proof markers with lots of colors for it too.  It's especially useful for generic buildings like taverns, stables, farms, or other frequently visited places.


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## smetzger (Aug 11, 2003)

I bought 8"x10" sheets of plexiglass from Lowes, drew 1" square on one side, put some felt tabs on the corners, turn it over and use wet-erase markers on them.

Advantages over traditional matte:
1) Scaleable, when you want a larger grid just buy some more 8"x10" squares.  No need to go and buy a whole new matte.

2) Very good for running a battle which moves along because you can 'scroll' by taking an 'old' sheet and moving to a new area.

3) No bulky roll of vinyl.  Just stack them in your box with your books.

Disadvantages:
It will cost about the same amount as a Chessex matte and you still need to draw the lines yourself.


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## Henry (Aug 11, 2003)

Aluvial, I tried to edit down your GIGANTO-Battlemat picture, but only succeeded in deleting it from your post. It looks like the forum software is not obliging the change of your picture with a smaller one - it keeps renaming your old pic to the name of the new one I upload.

I reposted an 800 x 600 version of the picture here, to get the thread's frame back down to a little better proportion for its readers. Sorry about that.


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## CarlZog (Aug 11, 2003)

I just got a Chessex megamat -- the double-sided one with hexes -- at GenCon. Price was a selling point; It was a discounted "factory irregular" (Some of the ink from the squares side of one mat got onto the hexes side of the next mat in the production pile. It's so slight, you have to really examine it to notice.)

I also looked at the Crystal Caste ones: They're pretty, but I found the background pattern distracting.

Decades ago, I used to buy paper hex posters from TSR and coat them with contact paper, as someone else suggested.

CZ


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## King_Stannis (Aug 11, 2003)

Zander said:
			
		

> *Crystal Caste all the way. Why? Because the guy who runs CC is a nice person, while the people who run Chessex stole $5000 from me.  *





Eh? Do tell, Zander...exactly what happened?


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## Zander (Aug 11, 2003)

King_Stannis said:
			
		

> *Eh? Do tell, Zander...exactly what happened? *



To cut a long story short...

Years ago I co-designed an RPG product for a company that was bought out by Chessex. Chessex were legally bound to honour the contract and at first said they would. Then they started to impose all sorts of conditions including limiting my movements (FYI the Supreme Court has ruled that limiting someone's movements, except in certain specific cases, is unconstitutional). 

I talked to a lawyer who was pretty certain I'd win if I sued. The only trouble was that it would have cost me $5000 to bring the case, so at most I would have gained a moral victory. 

Still, I can repeat the story as vocally as I like because Chessex know that if they sued me for libel, they'd lose and I'd take them to the cleaners. So I can say, quite rightly, that Chessex are thieves and there's nothing in the world they can do about it.

(Sorry about this OT post).


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## LGodamus (Aug 11, 2003)

I have the biggest one of the crystal caste mats, and It rocks...it was worth every penny....


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## Barendd Nobeard (Aug 11, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> *i am in the market for a battlemat.
> 
> would anyone reccomend the ne they purchased based on price or geberal greatness? *



Measure carefully.

Some have squares that are a little *smaller* than one inch.  I bought a d20 ranger (a plastic ruler with D&D info on it; information at d20ranger.com) for a friend, and his mat had squares about 7/8" on a side.  Which made the d20 Ranger useless.  

I have three Chessex battle mats, and they all have very precise square--exactly 1" on each.


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## Henry (Aug 12, 2003)

For all my time and attention on Aluvial's post, I forgot to mention that I am the proud owner of THREE chessex battlemats - one 24 x 24 inch, and two 36' x 48" mats - one for hexes and one for squares.

I love 'em to death, and as long as I use my VIS-A-VIS brand wet erase markers on them (NO REDS!) then they wipe clean every time, and play beautifully.


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## TheAuldGrump (Aug 12, 2003)

MadScientist said:
			
		

> *Another word of warning. If you use dry erase boards at the gaming table, be very careful not to use dry-erase markers on your battlemap. I did that about a year ago and I still have many parts of the Sunless Citadel on my mega-mat! *




Try soaking with a 50/50 spolution of water % bleach. Make sure there is plenty of ventilation. Let set for half an hour to an hour.

Repeat.

I managed to save my Chessex mat this way.

Oh, and Chessex all the way. The Crystal Caste ones show signs of  creasing from folding very quickly compared to the Chessex ones. (Don't leave either one folded , don't crease them - *AND FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T LEAVE THEM FOLDED ON A HEATER! * (I let some friends use my first battlemat, they did exactly that shortly before buying me a brand new one.)

The Auld Grump


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## Mark (Aug 12, 2003)

I use Chessex with Vas-a-Vis wet erase markers.



			
				kengar said:
			
		

> *Why, obviously MY battlemat is the best!  *




Very cool elevated board, kengar.  Thanks for the link to Worldworks, too.  I may have to do something similar in the future.  Are all WW stuff 7 x 7, or what was the reasoning behind that size choice?


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## LazarusLong42 (Aug 12, 2003)

WRT: dry erase vs. wet erase markers:

I feel so spoiled.  The best way to get Sharpie or other permanent marker off of anything is 95% ethanol.  However, unless (1) you want to spend way too much money on it or (2) you work in a biology or chemistry research lab, you're unlikely to have that just lying around your house.  However, several appropriate household subsitutes are available:

(1) Isopropyl alocohol, AKA rubbing alcohol.  This should get most permanent marker out.  It's normally sold as a 70% solution in water; you're probably better off if you can find 99% isopropyl alcohol.

(2) Nail polish remover.  The major component of nail polish remover is usually either acetone or ethyl acetate; both are equally adept at dissolving organic substances--and, let's face it, nail polish isn't particularly non-permanent.

(3) Goo-gone.  Petroleum distillates and limonene may not be compatible with _your_ battlemat, and thus YMMV.

With any of these, please do test them on a corner first, lest you accidentally ruin your battlemat.  One or another of these may also be useful in removing stains from prolonged pictures.


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## kengar (Aug 12, 2003)

Mark said:
			
		

> *  Thanks for the link to Worldworks, too.  I may have to do something similar in the future.  Are all WW stuff 7 x 7, or what was the reasoning behind that size choice? *




The original set "Dungeonworks" was larger (basically the whole 8/12*11 sheet), but Denny -the guy who makes Worldworks- decided to shift to a square tile in later sets (Caveworks, etc.). I think the resoning for that was that it was the largest 1" grid square tile that would fit on a letter-sized sheet with normal margins. 

Since I had essentially a 28 * 28" area on the main board to work with, I just cut the dungeon grid to the 7*7" size for easy layout and matching up of the grid lines. All the grid surfaces are covered in adhesive sheets of clear laminate for dry erase capability as well.


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## Mark (Aug 12, 2003)

Do you seal the edges of the tiles with anything to help prevent possible peeling?  I suppose if you cut the laminations sheets a bit large, clip a square out at each corner, and allow the edges to fold over, you could even run and iron over them to seal them nice and tight.


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## Glyfair (Aug 12, 2003)

I'd go with the crowd and say the Chessex mats are better.  You can't write on the Crystal Caste mats as well.

As for markers, I go with the Vis-a-Vis overhead projecter markers.  Be sure not to get the permanent ones.  Those are rarer than the washable ones.  Indeed, until recently, I had never seen them (and didn't realize they were permanent until I used one on my mat).

To tell the truth, brands don't matter too much as long as you get washable overhead projector pens.  The only difference I've seen between brands is the tendency of certain colors of certains brands to leave marks when left for a long period of time.  I haven't had this problem with Vis-a-Vis pens, but it can be avoided completely by cleaning them off after a session.


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## King_Stannis (Aug 12, 2003)

Mark said:
			
		

> *I use Chessex with Vas-a-Vis wet erase markers.
> 
> 
> 
> Very cool elevated board, kengar.  Thanks for the link to Worldworks, too.  I may have to do something similar in the future.  Are all WW stuff 7 x 7, or what was the reasoning behind that size choice? *




Hey there, Mark.  

Having bought some WW stuff, I figured I'd weigh in on this. When you buy your sets at WorldWorks, Denny included terrain sheets with them. For the CastleWorks set, he includes entire sheets of grass, dirt, or hybrids. He then gives you tips on mounting them. Kengar did a great job on his (I like the laminated idea!).

I bought several posterboards and glued the terrain sheets onto them. One is grass, the other is hybrid grass/dirt, etc. 

I also cut out the river tiles and glued a string of them together so I could make a river long enough to traverse the board.

Overall, it's very cool. And fairly expensive, in that those terrain sheets use up an incredible amount of ink!


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## Mark (Aug 12, 2003)

Hiya KS!  Hope the family is well! 

I suppose if you're going to be affixing them to something, you can send them to the cheapest copy shop and have them use the cheapest paper.  Once they're glued to a surface and covered with laminated sheets, who's to know?


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## Korvas_Senn (Aug 12, 2003)

I have to agree! Chessex All the way had'em for years and never had a problem!! 

I use these Wet erase markers and I've never had a problem even with red!






Korvas Senn


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## Mark (Aug 12, 2003)

I have a four pack of the medium Staedtler markers, also, but the lines are thinner so I usually use the Vis-a-Vis.  I'll have to find some thicker Staedtlers and give them a try also.


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## kengar (Aug 12, 2003)

> *Do you seal the edges of the tiles with anything to help prevent possible peeling? I suppose if you cut the laminations sheets a bit large, clip a square out at each corner, and allow the edges to fold over, you could even run and iron over them to seal them nice and tight.*




I covered the edges with photo/document tape. It's acid-free and a tiny bit thicker than regular Scotch Tape. I go into more construction detail over on WorldWorks's forums.


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## Mark (Aug 12, 2003)

kengar said:
			
		

> *I covered the edges with photo/document tape. It's acid-free and a tiny bit thicker than regular Scotch Tape. I go into more construction detail over on WorldWorks's forums. *




Very cool.  Thanks!


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## babomb (Aug 17, 2003)

In my group, we used a cork bulletin board covered with sheets of paper with grid printed on them and plexiglass on top. It worked pretty well.


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## John Crichton (Aug 17, 2003)

Mark said:
			
		

> *I have a four pack of the medium Staedtler markers, also, but the lines are thinner so I usually use the Vis-a-Vis.  I'll have to find some thicker Staedtlers and give them a try also. *



I use the Staedtler 'M' markers rather than the 'S' thickness ones.  They work like a charm on both my CC mat and my friend's larger Chessex mat.  I personally prefer to use the Chessex mat as the markers work better on it and the mat itself keeps a much better shape after much use.


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## DaveStebbins (Aug 17, 2003)

*Reclaim the table space!*

In our group one guy cut up an old chalkboard to about 24" by 36" and scored a one inch grid with a knife. With a few pieces of colored chalk and an eraser, this has served us admirably for years.

The most important thing we did, though, was to elevate it by screwing dowels under each corner. The pictures in the thread Kengar linked to showing his battlemat are an excellent example. Even if you have a flexible battlemat, make a table for it to raise it six to eight inches off the tabletop. 

The battlemat is still central and, if anything, even more visible to everyone at the table, including the DM who may be behind his screen. Then, all the space underneath is available for books, loose paper, dice, snacks, etc. For mats which take up almost all of the tabletop space, it seems to double what's available. Another benefit is that most spills are kept away from the battlemat.

-Dave


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## Kichwas (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: You've got one in the 3.5 DMG*



			
				Eye Tyrant said:
			
		

> *Unless you are one that doesn't want to change to 3.5 or just hasn't yet, the new DMG has a good sized battle grid.*



I'm not willing to rip up my DMG. I have the CHessex, but if it had been out when I bought mine I would have gotten the Crystal Caste because it has a grid on both sides.


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## Stormfalcon (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: You've got one in the 3.5 DMG*



			
				arcady said:
			
		

> *I'm not willing to rip up my DMG. I have the CHessex, but if it had been out when I bought mine I would have gotten the Crystal Caste because it has a grid on both sides. *




Ummm...the mat in the 3.5 DMG is a tear-out one.  Taking the mat out won't harm the DMG one bit.  If anything, taking it out makes flipping through the pages a little easier towards the end since you don't have the bulk of the mat pushing against pages from behind.

At least it wasn't quite as bad as that oddly-placed registration card in the MM...


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## Kichwas (Aug 17, 2003)

Which leaves tear-pages in the back of the DMG...

Thus ripping up the book.


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## ForceUser (Aug 17, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> *i am in the market for a battlemat.
> 
> would anyone reccomend the ne they purchased based on price or geberal greatness? *



I bought a Chessex wet-erase mat for 35 bucks and I love it. You have to work a little harder to keep it clean and stain-free, but for those of us who have not the time nor the inclination to use elaborate props while DMing it comes in very handy.


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## Stormfalcon (Aug 17, 2003)

arcady said:
			
		

> *Which leaves tear-pages in the back of the DMG...
> 
> Thus ripping up the book. *




It's not quite as bad as you make it out to be.  All it leaves behind is a thin section at the very end of the book, after the index.  It's no different than tearing out the registration cards they stick in their books.  If you tear out the cards, tearing out the mat is no different.

I just wish that the pages with the counters and such were treated similarly.  That way I wouldn't have to wrestle my DMG (being a hardback) into a scanner or copier to reproduce them for use.


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## paulewaug (Aug 17, 2003)

Aluvial said:
			
		

> *I use a dry-erase battle map.  My wife found one with a permanent 1" grid on it, when she comes home, I will see if I can find out where it came from.
> 
> It is 4' X 3', and I will never look back.  I had the battle map for a while, but this thing really is the best I've seen.
> Aluvial *




Hey Aluvial, I would be interested in finding out where she got this. 

 I have used one of the battle mats, I think it was the chessex, the one that is 2 sided, and personally, I found the wet erase to be a pain.  The mat smelled funny (rubbey, I guess) and sometimes it was kind of hard to clean up. 
Mostly though we use Huge pads of paper with 1" squares on it and I was looking for something to save on paper.  But I ended up using at least as much papaer in paper towels as using the pad so that didn't help. Tried a spunge and it just got nasty quick.

So I would really like to have a dry erase board,  for me it would be great and worth the $$.  And it looks like a good size-
Thanks!


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## anonystu (Aug 17, 2003)

I like the Dragon Mat from Dragon Scale Counters (here ), or specfically, I have about five.

They're dirt cheap ($2.00), and are basically dry-erase mats that are the size of a sheet of paper (but much sturdier). While you sacrifice something for large-scale battles (but you can always have a large battlemap), but there's something really cool about the preparation it allows you: you can draw out whatever situation the PC's are in, and then, flip it over, and instant map!

I like the flow this offers a lot more than I need sprawling battlemaps, but the cool thing is that if there is a sprawling battle coming up, I can just keep that on the battlemap, because it doesn't see much use.


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## Kichwas (Aug 18, 2003)

Stormfalcon said:
			
		

> *It's not quite as bad as you make it out to be.  All it leaves behind is a thin section at the very end of the book, after the index.  It's no different than tearing out the registration cards they stick in their books.  If you tear out the cards, tearing out the mat is no different.*



I don't tear out registration cards... that leaves rips behind.

It's not only as bad as I make it out, it's worse. 

As for the counters, wasted pages for me. Hopefully they'll put up a PDF of them at some point.


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## buzz (Aug 18, 2003)

paulewaug said:
			
		

> *Hey Aluvial, I would be interested in finding out where she got this. *



I dunno aout Aluvial, but you can get dry-erase 1" gridded boards here.

You can also go nuts and get wall-mounted magnetic boards here. Or there's even clear grid and hex plexi boards with risers over here.

I was using a gridded flip chart for a while. Yeah, you waste paper, but you can also draw out maps in advance and not worry about "burn-in". I gave in and bought a Chessex battlemat eventually.


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## paulewaug (Aug 18, 2003)

hey buzz

hhmmm...those DeeMer plexi boards look interesting.
I might have to check them out, thanks for the heads up!


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