# Dear SyFy



## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 25, 2011)

If you're going to axe shows because they're too pricey- as you have with _Eureka_ please do us the favor of NOT replacing them with ultra-low budget quasi-paranormal reality shows, or worse- like more wrestling.

Instead, I would like to propose you "go Hollywood" and plagiarize...errrr..."reimagine" old successful formulaic (and thus, inexpensive) TV shows with a more Sci-fi, horror, pulp, superhero or fantastic slant.

For example, consider _The Dukes of Hazard_:  many seasons, one expensive car, 6 rustic sets and some farmland to drive on.  Cheap action series.  Why not remake this as _The Dukes of Alhazred_?  Plot: some good ole boys (minor knights) in medieval Europe fighting to keep some Moorish invaders (led by Bas Hadji) from using the Necronomicon to unleash creatures from beyond time & space into the world in a misguided attempt to use them as shock troops.

I'm sure others here have ideas of equal merit- go ahead and post them so that fat-cat SyFy execs can see them!


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## jonesy (Aug 25, 2011)

Dr. Geisel, Paranormal Investigator.

Set in WWII Europe.

"All alone! Whether you like it or not, alone is something you'll be quite a lot!"

“I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!”

"In the places I go there are things that I see
That I never could spell if I stopped with the Z
I'm telling you this because you're one of my friends
My alphabet starts where your alphabet ends."


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## Mark CMG (Aug 25, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> If you're going to axe shows because they're too pricey- as you have with _Eureka_ please do us the favor of NOT replacing them with ultra-low budget quasi-paranormal reality shows, or worse- like more wrestling.





They could have a scifi talk show with authors, film makers, etc.  That's cheap to do and fills four or five hours a week.  Like the Tonight Show, only they could call it the Tomorrow Show.


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## jonesy (Aug 25, 2011)

Mark CMG said:


> They could have a scifi talk show with authors, film makers, etc.  That's cheap to do and fills four or five hours a week.  Like the Tonight Show, only they could call it the Tomorrow Show.



I'd watch that.


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## jaerdaph (Aug 25, 2011)

I'd settle for SyFy just rerunning in prime time some of the old classics instead once again - Kolchak: The Night Stalker (original), Dark Shadows, Six Million Dollar Man, all Star Trek series, Space 1999, The Prisoner, Buck Rogers, etc. etc. etc. 

But don't mess with Haven, Warehouse 13 or Alphas!


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## Scott DeWar (Aug 25, 2011)

Tried to find - Kolchak: The Night Stalker (original)- on hulu and got this:

No videos match your search for show:"Kolchak: The Night Stalker" type:episode.

Please try your search again with a different search term.

Gah! i have been trying to find this forever


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## Umbran (Aug 25, 2011)

Scott DeWar said:


> Tried to find - Kolchak: The Night Stalker (original)- on hulu and got this:
> ...
> Gah! i have been trying to find this forever




The complete series is available, both on DVD and Streaming, from Netflix.


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## MarkB (Aug 25, 2011)

How about taking some of the old, dirt-cheap schlocky movies they can show for a pittance anyway, and add a snarky commentary track that pokes fun at just how dire they are.

To really stretch the budget, you could add maybe one cheaply-dressed set to use as part of some kind of framing device, that provides some weak semblance of a justification for the format and lets you get to know and empathise with the guys doing the snarky commentary.

If that all seems too implausible to work, just keep telling yourself it's just a show, and try to relax.


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## Janx (Aug 26, 2011)

They could get into urban fantasy, letting them use modern existing sets, regular extras, and some moderate use of chroma key and CGI.

people with extraordinary powers just trying to hold down a regular job and share an appartment because they're FrIENDS.


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## Janx (Aug 26, 2011)

Here's a cheap one:

run annual contests for 45 minute home made sci-fi/horror/fantasy movies.

Air the best 12 as a season.

So literally, your fans supply you with content to air.

Winning shows would get some money prizes, maybe an interview for the end of season behind the scenes filler episode.


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## GMforPowergamers (Aug 26, 2011)

Janx said:


> They could get into urban fantasy, letting them use modern existing sets, regular extras, and some moderate use of chroma key and CGI.




I think if they had done dresden files mor elike the books it would be better.


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## Tyranthraxus (Aug 26, 2011)

I preferred the Dresden Files of the tv just fine. It was in fact rating quite well. It was the tv show that got me starting to read the books on which it was based and not the other way around.


Ive never seen Syfy as a place Id really go to to find original programming. I always just assumed it was a channel , shows from other networks went to for rerun potential. With the rise of your netflix's and Hulu it HAD to change direction.


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## Ahnehnois (Aug 26, 2011)

I'd like to see them go the same direction as many other cable networks have and focus on making high-quality, creative, original programming. A lot of the best TV shows are on cable now.

Of course, one could argue that the (then) Sci-Fi channel was ahead of the curve in airing Battlestar Galactica and before that Farscape. They have the ability to do that kind of programming; hopefully they'll decide it's worth it to try again.


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 26, 2011)

GMforPowergamers said:


> I think if they had done dresden files mor elike the books it would be better.




Maybe... but maybe not. I'm in the same boat as Tyranthraxus, in that I found the TV series first (just a few months ago on Hulu) and then started reading the books. I like both quite a lot. But I personally liked the TV version of Bob far more than the (admittedly more-amusing) book version of Bob. And as already pointed out, the ratings for the show weren't too shabby. It was a stupid management decision to drop the show.

IMO, Syfy has lost a lot of their power (and it started with the name change). They've still got some good shows (Haven comes to mind), but they've got way too much garbage (the paranormal shows, wrestling, etc.) sucking up more time. I understand the garbage shows are probably a lot cheaper, but they lower public opinion and reduce the chances of people finding out about good programming on the channel simply because they aren't watching the channel in the first place because of the garbage-shows. A vicious cycle...

They're probably also trying to find a replacement flagship show, what with the effective demise of the Stargate and BSG series. I'm concerned they might not be able to manage it, looking at the good stuff they've axed in recent years.


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## TanisFrey (Aug 26, 2011)

GMforPowergamers said:


> I think if they had done dresden files mor elike the books it would be better.



the writer really needed to read the books for some of the details on werewolfs and some other things.  I did not mind the change they made to Bob.


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## Janx (Aug 26, 2011)

TanisFrey said:


> the writer really needed to read the books for some of the details on werewolfs and some other things.  I did not mind the change they made to Bob.




The Bob change was because a ghost makes for better television than a talking skull.


any of the other changes are because hollywierd likes to put its stink on things and make it fit for TV (dumb it down, because they can't spend extra minutes explaining it all)

as to why Dresden got canceled, one reason Jim Butcher gave was because of politics at SyFy, namely the female head got jealous that her baby Wrestling was not doing as well as her rival's show Dresden Files.  So it got axed.*

*last year Jim came to a book signing in Houston.  He was asked. He answered what he knew.

Another reason I had heard, was ads were sold for male product in the DF timeslot, and the demographic it hit was 30 something women.  So the sponsors weren't happy that they didn't reach their target.


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## ssampier (Aug 28, 2011)

The premise sounds interesting, Danny. If you were behind the helm at the network it would be awesome. However, I feel that concept, with the current management, would be dragged through the mud, shot, and then stuffed in a body bag somewhere.

However, Urban Fantasy I could get behind. I have never seen the Dresden Files show. I do like reading the books. Sy Fy does have the _Being Human_ show, but it's not my cup of tea. At least we haven't seen sparkly vampires yet.

As for target market what is wrong with 30 year old women? Granted I can't stand most commercials, the ones targeted to women are usually worse. However, a mute button fixes that problem quite easily.


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## Relique du Madde (Aug 28, 2011)

Syfi needs to bring together the Mystery Science Theater 3K crew, hell they could use it as an opertunity to cross promote Syfi's various B-tastic "made for cable movies" since I'm certain Tom Servo or Crow T Robot would have plenty to say about Shark-opus vs Graboid and the Legendary Thor.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 28, 2011)

Even if they couldn't do THAT, getting the fricken rights to broadcast the genius of MST3K would be an improvement of momentous proportions.

While they're at it, why not throw some money at Elvira or Joe Bob Briggs to do some new shows in their style!  Getting a host like that couldn't help but improve the fun factor of the crap movies they show.  Imagine JBB's commentary on a movie like _Spring Break Shark Attack_.  Or Elvira's take on _Ice Spiders_.

What fun could be had by JBB, Elvira or MST3K working with those "made for Sci-Fi/SyFy" movies?

At least it would resonate better with the damn demographics!  'Cause _clearly_, what they're doing is NOT working!



> Wikipedia
> For 2010, Syfy averaged 1.199 million viewers, down 6% from 2009. In Adults 18-49 the channel averaged .539 million viewers, down 11% from 2009. For 2010 Syfy did not hold any of the Top 20 Primetime Original Series.[29]


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## Relique du Madde (Aug 28, 2011)

I'm not sure about Elvira.. I know she has new episodes of her show in syndication, but I don't think she could cut it without soft lighting an a Gaussian blur.


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## jonesy (Aug 28, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> I'm not sure about Elvira.. I know she has new episodes of her show in syndication, but I don't think she could cut it without soft lighting an a Gaussian blur.



Are you kidding? She looks better now than she ever did. This is from 2011 San Diego Comic-Con:


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## NewJeffCT (Aug 28, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> For example, consider _The Dukes of Hazard_:  many seasons, one expensive car, 6 rustic sets and some farmland to drive on.  Cheap action series.  Why not remake this as _The Dukes of Alhazred_?  Plot: some good ole boys (minor knights) in medieval Europe fighting to keep some Moorish invaders (led by Bas Hadji) from using the Necronomicon to unleash creatures from beyond time & space into the world in a misguided attempt to use them as shock troops.
> 
> I'm sure others here have ideas of equal merit- go ahead and post them so that fat-cat SyFy execs can see them!




Dude - that's the plot of the SyFy movie of the week in early October...with Bruce Boxleitner, Robert Picardo and Debbie Gibson.


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## NewJeffCT (Aug 28, 2011)

jonesy said:


> Are you kidding? She looks better now than she ever did. This is from 2011 San Diego Comic-Con:




agreed - she still looks great.  She has amazing genes.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 28, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> agreed - she still looks great.  She has amazing genes.




I wasn't looking at her _genes._


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## Relique du Madde (Aug 28, 2011)

jonesy said:


> Are you kidding? She looks better now than she ever did. This is from 2011 San Diego Comic-Con:




She must have gotten alot of plastic surgery since 2002/2003... because back then she looked her age (especially when she turned around to expose the saggy skin on her back).


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## Scott DeWar (Aug 28, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I wasn't looking at her _genes._




I guess you were looking at her jeans?


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## jonesy (Aug 29, 2011)

Scott DeWar said:


> I guess you were looking at her jeans?



I don't think Elvira has ever worn jeans, but Cassandra Peterson sure has:
Photos and Pictures - Alice Cooper, Cassandra Peterson and Rob Zombie


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## Villano (Aug 29, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> While they're at it, why not throw some money at Elvira or Joe Bob Briggs to do some new shows in their style!  Getting a host like that couldn't help but improve the fun factor of the crap movies they show.  Imagine JBB's commentary on a movie like _Spring Break Shark Attack_.  Or Elvira's take on _Ice Spiders_.




I like the way you think.  I've been saying that SyFy needs a movie host for years.  

Unfortunately, as much as I love Elvira's new show, I don't think it would work too well on SyFy.  She seem to be airing them in blocks of "a few new episodes, followed by a bunch of reruns, a couple new ones, a lot of reruns, etc.".  It's been on for a year, but they've only shown 20 of the 24 or 26 they're scheduled to air. 

However, there are plenty of other hosts out there like Penny Dreadful, Zomboo, Ghoul-A-Go-Go, Mr. Lobo, Monster Madhouse, and Dr Gangrene.  Just checking out their websites, many say they are available for syndication.  If you have access to their back catalogue of shows along with the new ones, you'll have plenty of episodes to spare. 

And then there are people like Roxsy Tyler who are just doing their shows on the web.  No reason you can't air them on TV.  You could even bring back guys like Dr. Sarcofiguy, whose shows are cancelled.

Of course, these people show old, public domain films, so SyFy might not even care.  Honestly, I can't even remember the last time SyFy aired a classic old movie, let along a B picture.  It seems they only care about direct-to-video, bad CG crap.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 30, 2011)

You know, I have half a mind to send a link to this thread to the people at SyFy.

Unfortunately, it's in a jar that was stolen by Bruce Campbell...


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## Thunderfoot (Aug 31, 2011)

While I would love some actual sci-fi on SyFy(pronounced see fee because it's just WRONG the other way..) I have a feeling that the problem started when the old execs got canned and replaced.  First it started with the paranormal shows, I still to this day wonder if some moron programming exec said in a meeting "Sci-Fi nerds are into conspiracies, this has got to work!  I mean they all like the X-Files, right?"

Soon after the chick from Spike was moved to SyFy and wrestling showed up, sure, it didn't really work on a network aimed at men from 14-36 with an IQ smaller than their shoe size, so playing it on a network where men and women of an above average IQ that were probably beaten up by the aforementioned men when they were in High School should be just the place. (I really don't like her....)

I guess the next thing is to move in NASCAR, country music concerts and high school sports coverage from around the globe...


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## Thunderfoot (Aug 31, 2011)

Scott DeWar said:


> I guess you were looking at her jeans?



Wait, jeans?   She's wearing jeans?   Ah, who cares, I'm starin' at her chest.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 31, 2011)

> NASCAR




Almost...what about a series focused on NASTAR: the Nebula Association of Superluminal Transport Asterism Racing?

You could have episodes about the pilots trials & tribulations, and every once in a while, show races, complete with Hyperspace drafting, swappin' hull plating, and the occasional wreck.  It would be no more scripted than a wrestling show, and would be far more likely to appeal to the genre fiction market.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 31, 2011)

Here's another one: dust off the old _Twilight Zone_ format.

Shows that followed in its wake- especially _The Outer Limits_- did stories based on not only their own writing staff, but also short fiction by some of genre fiction's biggest names.

Form a partnership with a quality genre fiction magazine- one of the great old ones- NO, not the critters from the Mythos stories!  I'm talking about a publication like Fantasy & Science Fiction Magazine.  Open up their vaults and comb over some of the quality short fiction of the past 5 decades or so, and make 1 hour episodes.

The magazine gets a share, the writers get a share and exposure (important!) and SyFy gets a strong show which, done properly, could be a goldmine.  I know for a fact that some of the authors that have appeared in that magazine feature repeatedly reused characters & settings- an episode featuring such a story could easily be spun off.


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## Thunderfoot (Sep 2, 2011)

Does anyone remember the old Spielberg produced series based on the TSR publication _Amazing Stories?_  Not just Sci-fi/horror but some really good pulp sci-fi and even some pseudo-science/near alternate future stories.

THAT would be sci-fi gold now-a-days. Of course, the obvious choice means that they bought the rights and the bitch queen of programming has burned all the copies so she can create another wrestling show...


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## Thunderfoot (Sep 2, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Almost...what about a series focused on NASTAR: the Nebula Association of Superluminal Transport Asterism Racing?
> 
> You could have episodes about the pilots trials & tribulations, and every once in a while, show races, complete with Hyperspace drafting, swappin' hull plating, and the occasional wreck.  It would be no more scripted than a wrestling show, and would be far more likely to appeal to the genre fiction market.



Especially if they had good CGI, of course it would probably end up like Yogi's All-Star Saturday Racing (for those that remembered that short lived Hanna-Barberra conglomeration on early 80s ABC Saturday morning line-up...or even when they used to HAVE cartoons on Saturday morning.)


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 2, 2011)

Thunderfoot said:


> ...of course it would probably end up like Yogi's All-Star Saturday Racing...




You say that like it would be worse than what they're already airing.


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## Janx (Sep 2, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Almost...what about a series focused on NASTAR: the Nebula Association of Superluminal Transport Asterism Racing?
> 
> You could have episodes about the pilots trials & tribulations, and every once in a while, show races, complete with Hyperspace drafting, swappin' hull plating, and the occasional wreck.  It would be no more scripted than a wrestling show, and would be far more likely to appeal to the genre fiction market.




They could actually make it real, and base it on a video game.  Then, the real racers drive their real video game vehicles.  And the race is cut from different cameras.


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## Thunderfoot (Sep 3, 2011)

Janx said:


> They could actually make it real, and base it on a video game.  Then, the real racers drive their real video game vehicles.  And the race is cut from different cameras.



Now THAT sounds like an idea, kind of like taping the old Battletech simulators they used to have, plus some "outside" stationary ones besides just POV, I assume?  Hell, make it a game show, and air live.  No reality crap or scripted trash talking, just taped interviews of contestants to be shown at certain intervals, each racer climbs in their sim and the starts the race until crash, finish or DQ.

I LIKE it!


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## TarionzCousin (Sep 3, 2011)

Bring back _Firefly_.


I know: it will never happen. But a man can dream, can't he?


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## Relique du Madde (Sep 3, 2011)

TarionzCousin said:


> Bring back _Firefly_.




No. No. No, and absolutely no.

If Whedon brought it back you know he would be tempted to kill off Mal, Kaylee, and Zoe in the first season and then change the series to the River Tam Extreme Action Girl show.


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## MarkB (Sep 4, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> No. No. No, and absolutely no.
> 
> If Whedon brought it back you know he would be tempted to kill off Mal, Kaylee, and Zoe in the first season and then change the series to the River Tam Extreme Action Girl show.




Well, Mal's busy being Castle now anyway, so how about they cut to the chase and just commission the River Tam Extreme Action Girl show.

'Cause I'd definitely watch that.


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## Sutekh (Sep 5, 2011)

Id also need Jayne back onboard, this is the last season of Chuck but I think everyone (bar of course the browncoats) have moved in by now.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 5, 2011)

> River Tam Extreme Action Girl show.




They wouldn't use that title...

How about "A River Kills Through It"


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## jonesy (Sep 5, 2011)

Hands Of Blue. With focus on the academy hunting River. Although, then the show might be in danger of becoming Dark Angel, no, I mean Dollhouse, umm, Nikita, eh, Bionic Woman, nah, the new Bionic Woman, double-nah, Painkiller Jane, ooh, La Femme Nikita (deja-deja-vu), hum...Cybersix? Now I know, John Doe (what's that doing there).


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 5, 2011)

Hmmm: use the bionic/bio-engineered person on the run & being hunted by the government formula and recast the hunted with a well-trained dog (Border Collie FTW!) and you'd have a cheap-ish show combining elements of Sci-fi, adventure and the down-hominess/cute factor of _Lassie_.  Hey, maybe it wasn't a human experiment on the dog, maybe it was ALIENS!

IRRESISTIBLE!


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## jonesy (Sep 5, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Hmmm: use the bionic/bio-engineered person on the run & being hunted by the government formula and recast the hunted with a well-trained dog (Border Collie FTW!) and you'd have a cheap-ish show combining elements of Sci-fi, adventure and the down-hominess/cute factor of _Lassie_.  Hey, maybe it wasn't a human experiment on the dog, maybe it was ALIENS!
> 
> IRRESISTIBLE!



Already done on Bionic Woman. They even had aliens right after that.


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## Roland55 (Sep 5, 2011)

I Dream of Djinni?

The Dick von Zarovich Show??

CSI: Menzoberranzan???


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 5, 2011)

jonesy said:


> Already done on Bionic Woman. They even had aliens right after that.




Right, but in this case, the dog is the star.  (Are you Sirius?)


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 5, 2011)

Roland55 said:


> I Dream of Djinni?
> 
> The Dick von Zarovich Show??
> 
> CSI: Menzoberranzan???




In Efreet of the Knight?

Charlie's Valkeries?

Justice Guild?

Carriages for Hire? (This one follows the daily lives of the drivers of carriages for hire in a city like Waterdeep- they'll need someone like Danny Devito...)

Huzzah's! (show about loveable losers set in the tavern they frequent...)


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 6, 2011)

Nancy Drood Mysteries (based on Simon Green's _Secret Histories_ stories.


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## Janx (Sep 7, 2011)

This should be a no-brainer course correction for SyFy:

Spartacus meets WWF in Arena of Octos

Men train as gladiators and fight with classic medieval and roman weaponry before throngs of spectators.

Of course, it's all real and not scripted.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 7, 2011)

this is the cost of a five year show, once it goes four to five years it can start to make money in re-runs, Sci-fi kills the show and then reaps the benefits of DVD and the re-runs.  It is their business plan and one they have followed for years, they will cancel everything after it runs 5 years! 



show they should do:


Steampulp CSI - Supernatural twist with vamps, werewolfs, ghost and hydes!


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## ggroy (Sep 7, 2011)

Hand of Evil said:


> this is the cost of a five year show, once it goes four to five years it can start to make money in re-runs, Sci-fi kills the show and then reaps the benefits of DVD and the re-runs.  It is their business plan and one they have followed for years, they will cancel everything after it runs 5 years!




(More specifically).

Does Sci-Fi/SyFy see a penny from the shows they no longer broadcast?  Does SyFy see a penny from reruns of former Sci-Fi/SyFy first run shows, which are rerun on channels/networks they (or their parent company) do not own?

Does SyFy see a penny from dvd revenue?

Or is it the original studio who sees the revenue from syndication reruns on networks/channels they (or their parent company) do not own?  (ie.  CBS/Paramount for Star Trek, MGM for Stargate, Universal for Battlestar Galactica, etc ...).


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 7, 2011)

ggroy said:


> (More specifically).
> 
> Does Sci-Fi/SyFy see a penny from the shows they no longer broadcast?  Does SyFy see a penny from reruns of former Sci-Fi/SyFy first run shows, which are rerun on channels/networks they (or their parent company) do not own?
> 
> ...




If it is an original series and hold broadcasting rights.  As far as DVD's again, that is a can of worms but odds are they get something before the producers, directors or cast.


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## ggroy (Sep 7, 2011)

Hand of Evil said:


> If it is an original series and hold broadcasting rights.  As far as DVD's again, that is a can of worms but odds are they get something before the producers, directors or cast.




I suspect things are probably quite complicated.  Until the documents of such agreements are publicly revealed, we'll never know for sure.


Though with that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the control over the revenue streams of a particular tv show or movie, is highly based on which particular parties contributed the most upfront cash to finance the production, and whichever party had the upper hand in negotiating the agreements.  (ie.  Whoever controls the cash, gets to call the shots).


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## jonesy (Sep 7, 2011)

Someone should take the Gibson/Sterling novel The Difference Engine, and turn it into a steampunk detective tv show.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Sep 7, 2011)

Janx said:


> This should be a no-brainer course correction for SyFy:
> 
> Spartacus meets WWF in Arena of Octos
> 
> ...




Those poor people at the World Wildlife Foundation wouldn't stand a chance. Hope they can earn some money for their charity so their deaths aren't completely senseless. 

Why all this hate for pro wrestling? It's even placed on Friday nights, a known death knell night for sci-fi shows.

I'd just like SyFy to realize that they will *never* be a ratings giant and give shows more of a chance. They could have cut the budget on _Eureka_ instead of cancelling it. Although I must admit that, even as a _Eureka_ fan from the start, I'm not that sad to see it go away. Let it leave on top. American shows seem to overstay their welcome. My favorite British shows all ended in 5 or less seasons and I still wanted more. But many of my favorite American shows that weren't cancelled out of the gate left me wondering why I was still watching.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 7, 2011)

> Why all this hate for pro wrestling?



Because it has absolutely nothing to do with science, Sci-fi, Fantasy, or Horror.  It starts the network down a slippery slope of non-thematic programming.  Remember when MTV showed music videos?

You can argue about profitability, but here are show concepts out there that would attract a market without sacrificing the channel's _supposed_ core identity.



> It's even placed on Friday nights, a known death knell night for sci-fi shows.



For bad Sci-fi, perhaps, but remember, X-files anchored Fox's Friday night for 3 years before moving to Sundays...not exactly an easy night either.

Fox's history is kind of illustrative- they aired a LOT of Sci-fi on Friday nights during and after X-Files' run...and many were only given 1 season and cancelled, and not given a chance in another slot.

And if you look at Sci-fi itself?  StarGate SG:1 & Atlantis were both Friday night successes, as was nBSG.


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## ggroy (Sep 7, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Because it has absolutely nothing to do with science, Sci-fi, Fantasy, or Horror.  It starts the network down a slippery slope of non-thematic programming.  Remember when MTV showed music videos?
> 
> You can argue about profitability, but here are show concepts out there that would attract a market without sacrificing the channel's _supposed_ core identity.




I wouldn't be surprised if SyFy is attempting to shed itself of its original science fiction identity, eventually to recreate itself into something like Spike.

(ie.  Similar to how "The Nashville Network" was changed into "The National Network", and eventually to Spike).

The Nashville Network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ggroy (Sep 7, 2011)

Interesting article covering some history of Sci-Fi/SyFy.

Sci Fi Channel Aims to Shed Geeky Image With New Name : In Depth : TVWeek - Television Industry news, TV ratings, analysis, celebrity event photos



> Nevertheless, there was always a sneaking suspicion that the name was holding the network back.“
> 
> The  name Sci Fi has been associated with geeks and dysfunctional,  antisocial boys in their basements with video games and stuff like that,  as opposed to the general public and the female audience in  particular,” said TV historian Tim Brooks, who helped launch Sci Fi  Channel when he worked at USA Network.
> 
> ...



If what is in this article has any substance or truth, then it sounds like they've been trying to shed the science fiction identity for a long time.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 7, 2011)

That article was full of some of the worst marketing decision making I've seen in some time (I have an MBA in marketing, FYI).

Like the words that immediately preceeded the section you quoted:



> Sci Fi is coming off the best year in its history. In primetime it ranked 13th in total viewers among ad-supported cable networks in 2008. It’s a top-10 network in both adults 18 to 49 (up 4%) and adults 25 to 54 (up 6%).
> 
> During its fourth-quarter earnings call, parent General Electric said Sci Fi racked up a double-digit increase in operating earnings despite the beginnings of the recession.
> 
> Nevertheless, there was always a sneaking suspicion that the name was holding the network back.




Changing things after coming off your best season ever, with upwards trends?  Dumb.  Shedding your geeky image on a channel based on geek appeal?  Dumb.  Thinking that shows like pro-wrestling are your future when its not even in your top 10 ranked shows?  Dumb.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Sep 7, 2011)

I agree with your earlier points in response to me, but would also point to sci-fi shows that did well in other slots only to be moved to fill the "Friday night X-Files slot" only to die within a season of moving. Nevermind that Friday night X-Files had passed almost a decade before to Sunday nights. Nevermind that X-Files ratings increased by moving it to Sunday nights (except the final season).



Dannyalcatraz said:


> Changing things after coming off your best season ever, with upwards trends?  Dumb.  Shedding your geeky image on a channel based on geek appeal?  Dumb.




Agreed on all counts.



Dannyalcatraz said:


> Thinking that shows like pro-wrestling are your future when its not even in your top 10 ranked shows?  Dumb.




I have no inside knowledge, but I doubt they believe pro-wrestling is their future. There are a multitude of other programs that belie that thought. I believe it was a simple matter of ratings support. They knew basically how well rated a show Friday Night Smackdown was and moved it to a sister network that could support the ratings. It doesn't matter which network you put a pro wrestling show on. The fans would follow. If they moved it to Lifetime Women's Network then I would be watching that channel to keep up with the show. It's two hours of programming out of 168, not quite a new direction for the channel.

I do agree over the "reality" ghost hunter shows. There are too many of them to not call it a trend. Watching some guy whisper "Did you see that?!" while I answer "No, *click*" is not even remotely entertaining. This crap should be shoved into the overnight lineup on Chiller, not SyFy.


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## Thunderfoot (Sep 8, 2011)

While I would love to see a throwback to the true Sci-Fi channel again, I happen to like a "few" of the reality shows on SyFy.  The Ghost Hunter (GH & GHI) shows are not bad, of course the Ghost Hunter Academy (GHA) sucked and then tanked (thankfully).

The other reality shows are crap, no two ways about it.  But, as someone whose done the "industry" thing (music to be sure, but the same sharks swim the waters) it's pretty clear that the programming execs see reality shows on other channels winning shares so the hop on board the train, leaving proven winners behind.

Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen something like the "The Next WWE Star", "American Wrestler" or "So You Think You Can Wrestle?"   GHA was an obvious step in that direction, but they can't see the landmines in the field marked, DANGER - LANDMINES!


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## Fast Learner (Sep 8, 2011)

Thunderfoot said:


> Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen something like the "The Next WWE Star", "American Wrestler" or "So You Think You Can Wrestle?"



_Wrestling Moms!_


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 8, 2011)

Thunderfoot said:


> Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen something like the "The Next WWE Star", "American Wrestler" or "So You Think You Can Wrestle?"   GHA was an obvious step in that direction, but they can't see the landmines in the field marked, DANGER - LANDMINES!



You missed one already:

WWE Tough Enough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Admittedly, it wasn't on SyFy, but then again...thank God!


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## ggroy (Sep 8, 2011)

Thunderfoot said:


> But, as someone whose done the "industry" thing (music to be sure, but the same sharks swim the waters) it's pretty clear that the programming execs see reality shows on other channels winning shares so the hop on board the train, leaving proven winners behind.




From the perspective of the studio/television/cable network executives, what exactly is appealing about reality shows?

Do they cost less to produce per episode?

Do they bring in a large significant viewership base, compared to traditional scripted tv shows?

Are reality shows successful in the syndication rerun market?


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Sep 8, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> You missed one already:
> 
> WWE Tough Enough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Admittedly, it wasn't on SyFy, but then again...thank God!




You both missed WWE NXT, which was on SyFy. You didn't miss much though.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 8, 2011)

> From the perspective of the studio/television/cable network executives, what exactly is appealing about reality shows?




Relative to scripted shows, they are dirt-cheap to produce, thus if they attract the same viewership, are much more profitable.

As essentially unscripted shows, they do not run afoul of conflicts with the Writer's Guild.

The execs & producers can change the cast virtually on a whim.


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## Janx (Sep 9, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Relative to scripted shows, they are dirt-cheap to produce, thus if they attract the same viewership, are much more profitable.
> 
> As essentially unscripted shows, they do not run afoul of conflicts with the Writer's Guild.
> 
> The execs & producers can change the cast virtually on a whim.




On NPR, they had an article about MTV's big anniversary coming up.  On the section about the Real World, the origins of it was basically a screw-up.  They'd had some issue with casting for a show at the last minute, so they just opened it up and went unscripted.  And that is what killed the Video Star.


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## TanisFrey (Sep 9, 2011)

Roland55 said:


> I Dream of Djinni?
> 
> The Dick von Zarovich Show??
> 
> CSI: Menzoberranzan???



CSI: Waterdeep would be cheaper/ less make up needed and probability more able to reach an audience.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2011)

TanisFrey said:


> CSI: Waterdeep would be cheaper/ less make up needed...




Not if they used Nigerian actors...and use night-vision cameras.


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## ggroy (Sep 9, 2011)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> I have no inside knowledge, but I doubt they believe pro-wrestling is their future. There are a multitude of other programs that belie that thought. I believe it was a simple matter of ratings support. They knew basically how well rated a show Friday Night Smackdown was and moved it to a sister network that could support the ratings.




The only obvious scenario I can think of offhand where SyFy's executives truly believe pro-wrestling is their future, is if they have some secret plans to sell the entire SyFy channel to a wrestling/fighting company.  

(ie.  Basically selling the channel's already existing infrastructure, FCC license, facilities, etc ...).


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm not saying they view pro wrestling as the be-all, end-all, but rather as the first major tool in stripping away SyFy's unique geek identity (G4 may be the only other truly geeky channel on basic cable)....which could actually cost them as much as it would cost us.

There was a radio station here in Tx that had a hard-rock centered programming schedule (along with related artists in classic rock, C&W and other genres), and was known state-wide...even though it initially only broadcast in San Antonio.  It had _ridiculous_ market share.

Then one day, the station was bought out.  The new owner didn't care for hard rock, so he fired the DJs and instituted a new format of Classic rock only.

The problem was, there were 3 or 4 other successful classic rock stations in San Antonio, and he market's 800lb gorilla suddenly lost all of it's power.  It went from first to worst across the board.  As in worst ratings in all of Texas.

MTV did something similar when they switched from showing music videos to a host of reality shows & whatnot.

The difference is that MTV still managed to retain a unique identity with it's programming, carefully tailored to continue to attract it's core audience- not just music lovers in particular, but pop-culture philes in general.

The shows that are drawing people to SyFy are the geeky shows.  The wrestling show is interchangeable with so many others on other channels.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2011)

Double post


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## ggroy (Sep 9, 2011)

Another option the SyFy executives could pursue in principle, is to sell  off the Sci-Fi/SyFy ip (ie. brand names, trademarks, etc ...).  Though I  have no idea who exactly would be interested in buying it.  The brand name "SyFy" seems to be already "tainted" in the eyes of their intended audience (ie. geeks).

If SyFy eventually decides to complete shed itself of anything science fiction, I'm sure there will be somebody else who will move into that vacated market niche.  One possible contender could be the "Space" channel from Canada, which seems to serve the same niche as the former Sci-Fi/SyFy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_(TV_channel)


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't think they're moving away from the "geekiness" or sci-fi at all. I don't like the trend of reality ghost-hunting shows, but it is still a form of sci-fi entertainment. And anyone who thinks that pro-wrestling is a move *away* from "geekiness" needs to take a hard look at the fan base.

I think it was probably more of a manner of some bigwig stating things as absolutes instead of being honest about creating a unique identity and expanding offerings beyond what they had at the time. I see no indications, thankfully, of SyFy becoming "Spike 2: MORE MAN VOICE!!!!"

Sucks about the radio station Danny. The same happened here in Chicago. Q101 played nothing but Alternative and seemed to have some strong success. It was definitely top, IMO, in Alternative mainly because it was the only station devoted solely to it. They were bought out and the new owners changed to a *gag* all news format. We have a swath of all news on AM, plus two really big names that are all news on FM. Why would you create a brand new all news station with no national affiliate in this market? And it left me with stations that only occasionally play the music I want to hear while having to also deal with classic '70 rock deep cuts. I feel your pain.


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## Umbran (Sep 9, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> You can argue about profitability, but here are show concepts out there that would attract a market without sacrificing the channel's _supposed_ core identity.




While they made some arguments about "stretching the idea of the fantastic" and such to justify putting it on SciFi at the time, my understanding is that Universal was contractually obligated to produce the wrestling show.  It was going somewhere in their constellation.  Period.  So, it got shoved into a back corner that was getting lousy ratings anyway, and they didn't have much to lose with the choice, in the short term.

Then, oddly, when wrestling first showed on SciFi, its first 13 episodes were the highest rated show on cable in its time slot.  It didn't just do well, it did *the best*.

Now, it is possible that they could have developed a show that would have done even better in the time slot, but that's by no means a sure thing.  Less than 50% of all new shows ever make it to a second season, much less take their entire time slot when they debut.  

It takes a really strong argument, not just assertions about "network identity", to beat an actual demonstrated flat out win.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2011)

> It takes a really strong argument, not just assertions about "network identity", to beat an actual demonstrated flat out win.




Sure, it did that in it's time slot, but it was ranked 13th best on the network in 2008- behind some shows that got cancelled.  That speaks less about the quality of the show and more about the dearth of quality programming in that slot.

Heck, it didn't even crack the top 25 all time on SyFy.

Top Rated SyFy TV Shows- TV.com

And the Wiki (take grain of salt now) article about the channel notes: 9 of 13 shows "in the works" are reality programs, and that viewership has been slipping sinc it peaked in 2009.



> 2010, Syfy averaged 1.199 million viewers, down 6% from 2009. In Adults 18-49 the channel averaged .539 million viewers, down 11% from 2009. For 2010 Syfy did not hold any of the Top 20 Primetime Original Series.[29




So things are not trending well.


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## Umbran (Sep 9, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Sure, it did that in it's time slot, but it was ranked 13th best on the network in 2008- behind some shows that got cancelled.  That speaks less about the quality of the show and more about the dearth of quality programming in that slot.




Or, probably more likely, it speaks to the dearth of viewership in that time slot.  While there have been a couple of shows that have succeeded in that space, it is still generally a death slot, and is so for a reason.  Far fewer folks are parking their butts in front of TVs on Friday nights!

There a notion of cutting your losses that applies - don't fight too hard over the scraps, and instead put some more effort into winning the prime cuts.




> So things are not trending well.




My understanding is that things are not trending well for TV overall, so it may not reflect on SyFy specifically.


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## tuxgeo (Sep 14, 2011)

Roland55 said:


> I Dream of Djinni?
> 
> The Dick von Zarovich Show??
> 
> CSI: Menzoberranzan???




"CSI: Mezzo-Sopranzan!" -- all those mezzos "murdering" Mozart. 
(They'd never get convicted, though: no corpse to prove that a crime had "actually" been committed.) 

How's about "Bewitched -- the sequel?" (Too obvious, right?)


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## Kaodi (Sep 14, 2011)

When The Clone Wars finally comes to an end, the team that makes that show needs to be put to work on a new D&D cartoon based in Eberron. It would have plenty of the same elements ( a core party, fantastic locations, flashy battles, intrigue, war, edit: different races working together ) .


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## Thunderfoot (Sep 16, 2011)

[MENTION=8116]Gg[/MENTION]ory - my gods, I am an idiot and I didn't even realize it until I read your post....  

Sci-Fi was changed to SyFy so they could register the trademark... DUH! 
Sci-Fi is a known lexicon abbreviation for Science-Fiction, so much so that it is in the Webster's and Oxford's Collegiate Dictionaries.  I feel that we may have been duped somewhat with that whole "image" change thing.

Not that the bitch queen of program isn't still a complete moron for wanting wrestling/reality based programming, but someone, somewhere in the organization is a genius...


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## MarkB (Sep 17, 2011)

Thunderfoot said:


> [MENTION=8116]Gg[/MENTION]ory - my gods, I am an idiot and I didn't even realize it until I read your post....
> 
> Sci-Fi was changed to SyFy so they could register the trademark... DUH!
> Sci-Fi is a known lexicon abbreviation for Science-Fiction, so much so that it is in the Webster's and Oxford's Collegiate Dictionaries.  I feel that we may have been duped somewhat with that whole "image" change thing.
> ...




Umm, I'm pretty sure they had no problem trademarking the name "The Sci-Fi Channel".


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 18, 2011)

They didn't, but "SyFy" takes less ink, less time to say and is immediately recognizable as theirs.


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## Orius (Sep 18, 2011)

Who is this exec ru(i)nning Syfy, Lorraine Williams?  

I don't really care that they changed the name, it looks stupid, but it's branding and whatever.  The name doesn't really matter a long as there's good programming.  Good programming is not junk reality shows.  And wrestling.

I've been increasingly thinking that what geekdom needs to do is come up with a hobby or entertainment that is completely and utterly without any profit potential whatsoever.  Then we won't need to worry about ham-fisted and insulting attepts by executives who don't get our interests and have nothing but contempt for them anyway to expand the fanbase, which basically means dumbing down the things we like to pander to the mundanes.  Then we can enjoy what we like in peace.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 19, 2011)

> I've been increasingly thinking that what geekdom needs to do is come up with a hobby or entertainment that is completely and utterly without any profit potential whatsoever




The rednecks already beat us to it with Noodling- fishing by standing waist to neck deep using your bare hands as bait/hook.

Bad visuals, no beer drinking while fishing, no place except a hat to put a logo, and no gear.

...And they _STILL_ made a TV show about it: Hillbilly Handfishin'.


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## Thunderfoot (Sep 19, 2011)

MarkB said:


> Umm, I'm pretty sure they had no problem trademarking the name "The Sci-Fi Channel".




Danny kind of beat me to it, but, yeah, they used to say "next on Sci-Fi"; The Sci-Fi Channel and the related logos most assuredly were trademarked...but "Sci-Fi" wasn't - but "Sy-Fy" is...

Bloody brilliant, actually.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Sep 19, 2011)

Orius said:


> Then we won't need to worry about ham-fisted and insulting attepts by executives who don't get our interests and have nothing but contempt for them anyway to expand the fanbase, which basically means dumbing down the things we like to pander to the mundanes.




I hope this was an attempt at humor. Otherwise feeling insulted by people you insult seems to lack the superiority you hold dear.


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## Umbran (Sep 19, 2011)

Orius said:


> Who is this exec ru(i)nning Syfy, Lorraine Williams?




Syfy EXECUTIVES


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