# [Planescape] Squaring the Circle Redux - OOC (Full)



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 13, 2004)

*Intro*

Hello! I'm relatively new to pbp games, but this is something I've been hankering to run for quite some time and am hoping to find some like-minded souls here at ENWorld. Anyone remember _Hellbound: The Blood War_ boxed set from Planescape 2nd edition? Well, there's an epic-style adventure in there called Squaring the Circle where the PCs go on a plane-spanning quest to strip the fiends of their ability to teleport. This would be a somewhat modified version of that adventure-- some basic objective, but some of the details are a little different and there's a few twists and turns thrown in for good measure. Obviously, I prefer that players have never read the adventure (and don't know the spoilers), but if you have and you can keep OOC info OOC, then I have no problems.

There are a few requirements for joining this campaign: namely, that you are familiar with the details of the Planescape setting-- I would prefer not to bog down the game explaining Sigil, factions, portals, the cant, and whatnot-- and also with the quirks of planar travel. The only other caveat is that you be able to post at least every other day... and if you can post every day, I certainly won't say no!

Owning a copy of _Manual of the Planes_ and _Planar Handbook_ would be very useful, but not essential. This will be a pre-Faction War 3.5e game.

Any takers? I'll be accepting 6 7 players, plus alternates. 

*Character Creation*

Characters will start at ECL 12 (including templates, if applicable) with 68,000 XP using the 32 point buy method. I will allow players to buy off a character's level adjustment with XP as per the optional rules in _Unearthed Arcana_ (p. 18) but please note that this will cause them to start at a lower level (the benefit, of course, is that they progress faster than they would normally). Players can expect some level advancement throughout the course of the adventure but it's kinda hard for me gauge how much at this point. 

Allowable Races: This being the multiverse, it's pretty open, though I'm not using psionics or psionic races or allowing anything higher than a +4 level adjustment (racial Hit Dice not included). If you wanna play something cool and nonstandard (aasimar, tiefling, and genasi are all fair game), run the idea by me and providing I have the proper sourcebook and the cheddar content doesn't make me break out in hives, I'll probably okay it. Your character can be a Prime, but they should have planewalking experience (no clueless berks need apply! ). You will also need to designate a home plane for your character.
Allowable Classes: All core classes. I have no preferences on a party mix but it might make _your_ life easier if the party is balanced. As for prestige classes... I think most generic and planar ones will be fine, again with the provision that I own the sourcebook. I may not accept ones that are too campaign-setting specific though. Please run your concept by me before you start building your PC around it; there are so many classes and combinations out there that it's impossible for me to list what I deem acceptable and what's not. 
Characters receive maximum hit points for their first and second levels, and half their Hit Dice for their class thereafter (i.e., 4 on a d8).
Characters receive 88,000 gp to spend on gear and equipment, with a cap of 44,000 gp on any single item. Items from the DMG are all fair game, with the exception of metamagic rods. Other items are approved on a case-by-case basis.
Good and neutral alignments only, with good alignments preferred since the scope tends to be rather heroic. This can be a deadly adventure, so playing well with others is a bonus. 
Faction affliations are not necessary for this adventure, though you are certainly welcome to pick one. Unlike 2e, being a faction member doesn't grant a character any bonuses, unless he or she takes one of the faction prestige classes in _Planar Handbook_. Faction members will still have access to faction headquarters and resources, of course.
I will be requiring a background and description for all characters. Depending on how the characters fall out, they may or may not have been adventuring together prior to this. Regardless, I would encourage you to tie your characters together if you can.
I will be handling all the rolling, and will post those that are known: attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and open skills checks.
Ehr, that's all I can think of for now. If you have any questions, ask away.

*Current Player Roster*


deadestdai
Thanee
Ferrix
Kajamba Lion
Serpenteye
Isida Kep'Tukari
Ashy
_Alternates:_ taitzu52, LazarusLong42
*Links*
In Character | Character Gallery | Image Gallery | Cant Dictionary


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## deadestdai (Sep 13, 2004)

I'd love to get in on this one! Though, I don't have the PS books (Might be able to find them otherwise....).

The adventure is totally new to me, so I'm excited to see what it'd be about!

What kind of races/classes/alignments, etc are you allowing?


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## Thanee (Sep 13, 2004)

Sounds interesting. 

 While I am not immensely familiar with the planescape stuff (never really played that), I do have some knowledge about the basics (and planar travel and so on), and I guess a few searches on the net will provide whatever information is needed in excess to that.

 I've not the slightest idea what that adventure is about.

 3.5 planar sourcebooks are available.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Ferrix (Sep 13, 2004)

Cool!  The last planescape game I was in died.  I'd love this game if you want me.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 13, 2004)

Welcome aboard, deadestdai, Thanee, and Ferrix!  Now awaiting three more foolhard-- uh, I mean, intrepid souls!



			
				deadestdai said:
			
		

> I'd love to get in on this one! Though, I don't have the PS books (Might be able to find them otherwise....).



Well, the 2e PS books aren't necessary at all, and technically speaking the Manual of the Planes and Planar Handbook aren't either. If you are planning to getting one or the other, I'd suggest the Planar Handbook first. It has stuff that's more relevant to players.



> What kind of races/classes/alignments, etc are you allowing?



I'll be posting more details later, but to quickly answer your question, nearly any race is allowable, excepting psionic races (I will not be using psionics in this campaign) and those with a greater than +4 level adjustment. I have final say, of course, but if it's not cheesy and I have the book, I'll probably let it in. As for classes, any of the core classes are fair game. Alignment-wise, I'm looking for good to neutral-aligned characters. This is rather heroic sort of campaign, so evil characters wouldn't be appropriate.



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> While I am not immensely familiar with the planescape stuff (never really played that), I do have some knowledge about the basics (and planar travel and so on), and I guess a few searches on the net will provide whatever information is needed in excess to that.



Your knowledge of Planescape hardly needs to be encyclopedic.  As long as you are familiar with the cosmology of the Great Wheel and how Sigil is set up, you should be fine. Fortunately, this isn't a faction-heavy adventure, so you don't even need to know much about them beyond their names and basic philosophies. Brushing up on your cant might be helpful though.


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## The Other Librarian (Sep 13, 2004)

I'd love to be in of there's still a spot.  Never played Planescape before, but always wanted to!


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 13, 2004)

I'm game if there's room.  

Nick


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 13, 2004)

Okay, Librarian and Lion, count yourselves in! 

Everyone, I've edited the first post to include the character creation details so take a look.


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 13, 2004)

Here's a preliminary idea: Vladimir Kronenheim, a mortal Dwarf Pal5/Wiz(Necromancer)7 from Ysgard (Nidavellir).  He left because of his (obvious) ideological conflicts with the prevailing sentiments of the plane, has wandered into Sigil, and has (possibly, I'll have to check out my PS stuff) joined the Dustmen.  I was contemplating giving him the leadership feat and an undead cohort -- would that work or would that be too bizarre?  Let me know.  I've also thought of Pal3/Sor9 and Mnk5/Wiz7 or Mnk3/Sor9.  In any case, the class levels from monk or paladin would come first and he wouldn't be advancing in that class any longer.

Two questions that are key for this concept:
1) Is _animate dead_ evil for Dustmen if it's only used on people that have agreed to be raised?
2) Would we be able to swap out the paladin ability to turn undead for rebuke undead?

I'll have something put together shortly.

Nick


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## Serpenteye (Sep 13, 2004)

Me too!  (please?)


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## taitzu52 (Sep 13, 2004)

Er...um...late but wondering, is there any more room?


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 13, 2004)

Here's a rough, not including equipment or background for my idea above (also doesn't include stats for a familiar, mount, or cohort).  I've listed prepared spells, but how many spells would Vlad have in his spellbook?  Let me know.

thanks,
Nick

*Vladimir Kronenheim*
Male Dwarf Pal5/Nec7; Size M; HD 5d10+15 plus 7d4+21; hp 85; Init +1 (+1 Dex); Spd. 20 ft.; AC 11 (+1 Dex), 15 mage armor, 11 touch, 10 flat-footed; BAB +8/+3; Grp +7; Atk +9 melee (spiked chain), +9 ranged; Full Atk +9/+4 melee (spiked chain); SA smite evil 2/day, turn undead; SQ paladin abilities, dwarf abilities; AL LG; Fort +11 (+3 Con, +2 Cha), Ref +6 (+1 Dex, +2 Cha), Will +9 (+1 Wis, +2 Cha); Str 8, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 18 (15 at 1st, 16 at 4th, 17 at 8th, 18 at 12th), Wis 12, Cha 14.

*Skills, Feats, Languages*
Concentration +18 (+3 Con, 15 ranks), Craft/Armorer +6 (+1 Wis, 5 ranks; synergy: +2 Appraise on armor), Craft/Weaponsmith +15 (+1 Wis, 14 ranks; synergy: +2 Appraise on weapons), Heal +7 (+1 Wis, 6 ranks), Knowledge/Religion +9 (+4 Int, 5 ranks), Knowledge/Planes +9 (+4 Int, 5 ranks; synergy: +2 Survival checks in the planes), Profession/Enbalmer +8 (+1 Wis, 7 ranks), Spellcraft +17 (+4 Int, 13 ranks); Exotic Weapon Proficiency/Spiked Chain (1st), Weapon Finesse (3rd), Leadership (6th), Scribe Scroll (6th/Wiz1), Combat Casting (9th), Spell Focus/Necromancy (10th/Wiz5), Craft Magic Arms & Armor (12th); Common, Dwarf, Giant, Terran.

*Dwarf Abilities*
+2 Con, -2 Cha, base speed 20 ft., darkvision 60 ft., stonecunning, weapon familiarity (dwarven waraxe, urgrosh), stability (+4 to resist bullrush, trip), +2 racial bonus to saves against poison, +2 racial bonus to saves against spells and spell-like effects, +1 racial bonus to attacks against goblinoids and orcs, +4 dodge bonus to AC against giants, +2 racial bonus on Appraise checks regarding stone or metal, +2 racial bonus to Craft checks involving stone or metal.

*Paladin Abilities*
Aura of good, detect evil (at will), smite evil 2/day, divine grace (+2 Cha bonus to saves), lay on hands (10 hp/day), aura of courage, divine health, turn undead as Clr2 (+2 synergy bonus from Knowledge/Religion), special mount, divine spells.

*Necromancer Abilities*
Arcane spells, familiar, opposition schools: Enchantment, Illusion, +1 Necromancy spell/day, +2 Spellcraft to learn Necromancy spells.

*Paladin spells*
1/0/0/0, Save DC 12
1st level: lesser restoration.

*Necromancer spells* (* = Necromancy)
4+1/5+1/4+1/3+1/2+1, Save DC 14+spell level or 15+spell level for Necromancy
0-level: arcane mark, disrupt undead*, light, ray of frost, touch of fatigue*
1st level: chill touch*, mage armor, magic missile, obscuring mist, shield, ray of enfeeblement*
2nd level: command undead*, ghoul touch*, protection from arrows, spectral hand*, summon monster II
3rd level: dispel magic, gaseous form, slow, vampiric touch*
4th level: enervation*, stoneskin, polymorph


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## Ferrix (Sep 13, 2004)

Am I in?  Man this looks like the shaping of a great game


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## LazarusLong42 (Sep 13, 2004)

I'll toss my name in here in case you need alternates


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 13, 2004)

Yep, Ferrix, you're in (my note must have kinda buried on the first line of the 5th post). Serpenteye, you have the last slot. Sorry, taitzu52, but I'll put you on the alternates list. Check back occasionally; if someone drops, the spot is yours!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 13, 2004)

Alrighty, I'll add you to the alternates as well, Lazarus.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 13, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Here's a preliminary idea: Vladimir Kronenheim, a mortal Dwarf Pal5/Wiz(Necromancer)7 from Ysgard (Nidavellir).  He left because of his (obvious) ideological conflicts with the prevailing sentiments of the plane, has wandered into Sigil, and has (possibly, I'll have to check out my PS stuff) joined the Dustmen.  I was contemplating giving him the leadership feat and an undead cohort -- would that work or would that be too bizarre?  Let me know.  I've also thought of Pal3/Sor9 and Mnk5/Wiz7 or Mnk3/Sor9.  In any case, the class levels from monk or paladin would come first and he wouldn't be advancing in that class any longer.



Ooo... a paladin/necromancer... interesting idea!  If he was a champion of a god of death or something like that, I could see it flying. As for the undead cohort, it depends on the type of undead. A ghost or some sort of intelligent zombie, probably. A vampire or ghoul, probably not. But I'm willing to let it in.

On a side note, in the old PS, ghosts technically couldn't exist on the Outer Planes because the Outer Planes had no access to the Ethereal, but I think I'm going to toss that restriction out the window for this. Ghosts still don't have access to the Ethereal, but they manage to stay incorporeal somehow (unless manifested).

On another side note (and this would hold true for everyone else as well), if you take the Leadership feat, instead of gaining followers, you would gain contacts instead. But you'd still get your cohort. But I don't want to run insanely large combats so let's not all run out and get cohorts, please? 




> Two questions that are key for this concept:
> 1) Is _animate dead_ evil for Dustmen if it's only used on people that have agreed to be raised?



Hmmm... well, the PHB lists _animate dead_ as an Evil spell, but given the more... relativistic nature of the planes and the power of belief, I'd be willing to classify the use of that spell as non-evil in some cases, particularly by Dustmen. However, I'm slightly confused by your question. When you say, 'raised' you mean re-animated as undead, right? I would think that would be a less evil use of the spell than if it was used on someone unwillingly. And of course, Dustmen consider any type of resurrection magic completely abhorrent. 




> 2) Would we be able to swap out the paladin ability to turn undead for rebuke undead?



Hmmm... I would have to say no to this one.




> I've listed prepared spells, but how many spells would Vlad have in his spellbook? Let me know.



Vlad would get his initial allotment (all cantrips, plus 3 + Int mod at 6th level), plus 2 every wizard level thereafter for free. Uh... in his case, that would be 18 free spells. Any spells above that, he would have to pay for the cost of inscribing into his spellbook, up to however much he wanted to spend out of his starting money.


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 14, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ooo... a paladin/necromancer... interesting idea!  If he was a champion of a god of death or something like that, I could see it flying. As for the undead cohort, it depends on the type of undead. A ghost or some sort of intelligent zombie, probably. A vampire or ghoul, probably not. But I'm willing to let it in.




I'm trying to find an appropriate god of death (Wee Jas looks like the best bet, as she's LN, although how he heard about her on Ysgard would be interesting -- simplest answer would probably be a cleric travelling through with adventurers, but I'll see if I can come up with something a little bit better before applying Occam).  As for the cohort, I had actually been leaning towards a ghost, maybe a close personal friend that had passed in battle, that sort of thing (which would be kind of Ysgardian).



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Hmmm... well, the PHB lists _animate dead_ as an Evil spell, but given the more... relativistic nature of the planes and the power of belief, I'd be willing to classify the use of that spell as non-evil in some cases, particularly by Dustmen. However, I'm slightly confused by your question. When you say, 'raised' you mean re-animated as undead, right? I would that would be a less evil use of the spell than if it was used on someone unwillingly.




Yes, I meant re-animated, not raised.  He'd only use the spell on folks that wanted to be raised.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Hmmm... I would have to say no to this one.




Fair enough.  _Command undead_ and _halt undead_ can be used to similar effect anyhow.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Vlad would get his initial allotment (all cantrips, plus 3 + Int mod at 6th level), plus 2 every wizard level thereafter for free. Uh... in his case, that would be 18 free spells. Any spells above that, he would have to pay for the cost of inscribing into his spellbook, up to however much he wanted to spend out of his starting money.




Gotcha.  I'll play around with that when I do equipment later tonight.   

Best,
Nick


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## Thanee (Sep 14, 2004)

Standard scribing cost is 100 gp per spell level (tho, usually one is better off by buying a _Boccob's blessed book_, which covers that cost completely), plus the cost to obtain the spell knowledge (either a scroll, or some NPC who let's one copy the spell for a fee, which comes down to 50 gp per spell level for spells above 1st level and 25 gp for 1st level spells).

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> I'm trying to find an appropriate god of death (Wee Jas looks like the best bet, as she's LN, although how he heard about her on Ysgard would be interesting -- simplest answer would probably be a cleric travelling through with adventurers, but I'll see if I can come up with something a little bit better before applying Occam).



Well, you have practically any god from any supplement/pantheon open to you. It's the multiverse, after all.  And since you're not a cleric, we don't have to worry about domains.



> As for the cohort, I had actually been leaning towards a ghost, maybe a close personal friend that had passed in battle, that sort of thing (which would be kind of Ysgardian).



Very.  Cohorts use the 28 point buy method to generate stats, by the way. Eek. Ghosts have a +5 level adjustment according to the MM, though...  which is rather high. If you have Ghostwalk, I would be willing to let you create a ghostly cohort that way.


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## The Other Librarian (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks for letting me in.  I'm still pondering what to play, but leaning towards a Paragon Elf (from UA) maybe Bard/Wizard.  Sound do-able?


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 14, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Well, you have practically any god from any supplement/pantheon open to you. It's the multiverse, after all.  And since you're not a cleric, we don't have to worry about domains.




Yeah, that's true.  I'm going to run with Wee Jas, though, as I think I can see her having a Dustman Paladin (Kelemvor just won't work because of the whole undead thing).  After that, there's Eberron, but I'm not sure about that setting's gods (and if you even want to admit it to the Great Wheel, as it's got an entirely different cosmology -- hell, for that matter, so does the FR now).



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Very.  Cohorts use the 28 point buy method to generate stats, by the way. Eek. Ghosts have a +5 level adjustment according to the MM, though...  which is rather high. If you have Ghostwalk, I would be willing to let you create a ghostly cohort that way.




I don't have Ghostwalk, so I'll happily run with the MM ghost.  Vlad's leadership score would be 14 (level 12, +2 Cha), so he could have a level 10 cohort, or a 5th level ghost.  How's that sound?  It'd be the ghost of a Dwarf Ftr5 probably.



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> Standard scribing cost is 100 gp per spell level (tho, usually one is better off by buying a Boccob's blessed book, which covers that cost completely), plus the cost to obtain the spell knowledge (either a scroll, or some NPC who let's one copy the spell for a fee, which comes down to 50 gp per spell level for spells above 1st level and 25 gp for 1st level spells).




Good point.  That would help quite a bit.  I'll have to think on that.

Best,
Nick


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 14, 2004)

Sephiroth, sign me up as an alternate!  I have interest in playing a spiker fighter if you need me.


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## deadestdai (Sep 14, 2004)

Glad I am onboard!

Okay..... I found my old 2ed PS books too.

Here's my idea for a character.

Flaust Conkersforbrains - CG Paragon Tiefling Xaositect (Some sort of Rogue-ish class, haven't decided yet)

Having been born in the Hive in Sigil, Flaust didn't really get an easy start in life. Abandoned, unloved, unwanted and somehow still alive, this survivor of the poorest and roughest area of Sigil know's she's destined for more. Especially now that her new friends in her faction have told her she's going to be Queen of the Multiverse for at least "half" a day (As long as she wears pink.). What a goal to aim for, if only she could remember what it was.....

I'd really like to go all out for the Xaositect thing - them and the Sign of One were my fav' factions and I'd think it'd be a real hoot and challenge trying to play a crazy girl without disrupting the party (too much   ). Let me know what you think?


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

The Other Librarian said:
			
		

> Thanks for letting me in.  I'm still pondering what to play, but leaning towards a Paragon Elf (from UA) maybe Bard/Wizard.  Sound do-able?



Yep, no problem there.




			
				Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Yeah, that's true.  I'm going to run with Wee Jas, though, as I think I can see her having a Dustman Paladin (Kelemvor just won't work because of the whole undead thing).  After that, there's Eberron, but I'm not sure about that setting's gods (and if you even want to admit it to the Great Wheel, as it's got an entirely different cosmology -- hell, for that matter, so does the FR now).



Wee Jas, it is then!




> I don't have Ghostwalk, so I'll happily run with the MM ghost.  Vlad's leadership score would be 14 (level 12, +2 Cha), so he could have a level 10 cohort, or a 5th level ghost.  How's that sound?  It'd be the ghost of a Dwarf Ftr5 probably.



Ehr, actually, it would be a 3rd level ghost because Vlad would take another -2 to his Leadership due to having a familiar and/or special mount. :\ Though I suppose you could always choose not to have either....




			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Sephiroth, sign me up as an alternate!  I have interest in playing a spiker fighter if you need me.



Okay, Isida, you're on the alternates list! And spikers are fine.




			
				deadestdai said:
			
		

> Flaust Conkersforbrains - CG Paragon Tiefling Xaositect (Some sort of Rogue-ish class, haven't decided yet)



Heehee... great name.  And paragon tieflings are a go.




> I'd really like to go all out for the Xaositect thing - them and the Sign of One were my fav' factions and I'd think it'd be a real hoot and challenge trying to play a crazy girl without disrupting the party (too much   ). Let me know what you think?



I have no faction restrictions so either the Chaosmen or the Signers are fine by me. However, I will put in that this adventure is.... hazardous, to put it mildly. Your Xaositect will need to be able to focus sometimes or her barminess might get her (and the party) killed. But yeah, it could be a lot of fun!


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## deadestdai (Sep 14, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> I have no faction restrictions so either the Chaosmen or the Signers are fine by me. However, I will put in that this adventure is.... hazardous, to put it mildly. Your Xaositect will need to be able to focus sometimes or her barminess might get her (and the party) killed. But yeah, it could be a lot of fun!




Cool! Would 2 levels of Chaotician from the Planar Handbook be okay too? Only, it'd help flesh her Xaos backgroud out some.....


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

Sure, no problem!


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## deadestdai (Sep 14, 2004)

Ha!

I'll try to have her up tonight or tomorrow!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

Hmmm.... I guess this means I should start setting up a rogues gallery thread.... I try to have that done later tonight.


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 14, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ehr, actually, it would be a 3rd level ghost because Vlad would take another -2 to his Leadership due to having a familiar and/or special mount. :\ Though I suppose you could always choose not to have either....




Right.  I missed that.    I probably won't have a mount (can't really picture the character riding a pony through the planes), but will have a familiar, so you're right.  That might change things.  Let me think on it a bit.

thanks,
Nick


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 14, 2004)

Thought -- I might change out my Leadership feat for Improved Familiar -- perhaps a small earth elemental or something with the half-earth elemental template from the Manual of the Planes?  Or even a Dust/Earth Mephit?  This would require some sort of realigning of my feats, as I couldn't take it until level 12 if I want a mephit -- probably take Spell Focus (Necromancy) as my Wiz1, Craft Arms & Armor as my Wiz5, and Improved Familiar as my level 12.

best,
Nick


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## Ashy (Sep 14, 2004)

Please put me down as an alternate - IF you don't mind having the basher that started Planewalker.com playin'!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Thought -- I might change out my Leadership feat for Improved Familiar -- perhaps a small earth elemental or something with the half-earth elemental template from the Manual of the Planes?  Or even a Dust/Earth Mephit?  This would require some sort of realigning of my feats, as I couldn't take it until level 12 if I want a mephit -- probably take Spell Focus (Necromancy) as my Wiz1, Craft Arms & Armor as my Wiz5, and Improved Familiar as my level 12.



Any of those would work, I think. Let's say you can slap a earth elemental template (MotP p. 192) on your familiar if you're at least a 5th level wizard, or the half-earth elemental template (MotP p. 189) if you're at least 7th level. How does that sound? (And yes, dust or earth mephits would be okay at 7th as well.)




			
				Ashy said:
			
		

> Please put me down as an alternate - IF you don't mind having the basher that started Planewalker.com playin'!



Consider it done, cutter! Great site, by the way.


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 14, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Any of those would work, I think. Let's say you can slap a earth elemental template (MotP p. 192) on your familiar if you're at least a 5th level wizard, or the half-earth elemental template (MotP p. 189) if you're at least 7th level. How does that sound? (And yes, dust or earth mephits would be okay at 7th as well.)




Sounds good.  I'll think on it and post once I've decided.  Thanks! 

Nick


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay, the Rogues Gallery thread is up. You can access here:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100816

I will also put a link to this on the first page.


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## Ashy (Sep 14, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Consider it done, cutter! Great site, by the way.




Tarmy!  Thanks, blood!


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## Serpenteye (Sep 14, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Serpenteye, you have the last slot.




Thanks 

I was actually thinking about making my character a Ghost, even before I read 'Lion's posts. An elven Ghost Rogue or Sorcerer, or maybe a Bard... I think it would make an excellent support-character. 
Would the Ghost's Etherealness ability work outside of the Prime? Would it be able to reach the Ethereal from any plane?


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## Thanee (Sep 14, 2004)

Given my preferance for (spontaneous) spellcasters, since there is already quite a bit of interest on the arcane side, I'll probably go for a Favored Soul then (a human (how mundane ) from Toril, with Shaundakul as the deity).

 A spellcasting warrior with decent healing, buffing and some utility, basically.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 14, 2004)

Character is mostly finished, except for description, which will be updated during the next few days. Will make some minor changes (the odd spell or two) probably after having a closer look into the Planar Handbook. 


 I have one question, tho, concerning the recent errata updates.

 Would it be possible to un-nerf Righteous Might (to some degree)?


 I'd just make it exactly like the size change for monsters (+8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor, -1 to hit/AC) and use the lowered Damage Reduction from the errata (3/6/9 instead of 5/10/15).

 That seems more like a 5th level spell and does not need to hide behind Divine Power. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 14, 2004)

I have included a few custom items (altered slot and a shirt that adds +1 luck bonus to AC). Hope those are ok with you. 

Bye
Thanee


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## The Other Librarian (Sep 14, 2004)

I think I'm going to bow out of this game; looks fun, but I want to run something myself and don't want to split up my time too much.  Thanks for the offer though, and good luck to my alt!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 14, 2004)

*Pounce!*

I nearly have a character ready.    I'm within minutes of finishing her.

*Smiles hopefully.*


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 14, 2004)

Character moved to Rogue's Gallery.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

Wow, Isida, that was fast! I barely had time to read Librarian's post, much less call for alternates...  Okay, you're in! (I'll look over your character a little later and make comments; in the meantime, go ahead and post her over at the RG). 

Sorry to hear you can't make it, The Other Librarian, but I can definitely understand the desire not to spread yourself too thin. (I see some of the other posters in this forum and I think they're insane!  Uh, not naming any names, of course....) Anyways, good luck with your next project! 

And now... to work my way through the backlog of posts....


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay, let's see who's up first....



			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I was actually thinking about making my character a Ghost, even before I read 'Lion's posts. An elven Ghost Rogue or Sorcerer, or maybe a Bard... I think it would make an excellent support-character.



Okay, a major point. I know I said I wasn't going to allow any PCs with a greater than +4 LA and the ghost template has a +5 LA.... but I was going to let Lion have a ghostly cohort so it would be rather unfair of me to bar you from this.  That said, I would be happier if you created a ghost character using Ghostwalk instead of the MM template.  But! If you don't have Ghostwalk, I would be willing to make this one exception to the +4 or lower LA rule. I do have a few strings attached though if you choose the MM template... firstly, please don't make your Con a dump stat! And secondly, that your ghostly character needs to find a 'haunt'-- something or someone that keeps them tied to existence and prevents them from moving on (Lion's ghostly cohort's haunt was assumed to be Vlad). In this case, it would probably another party member or an item in the possession of another party member (though if you have other ideas, I'm willing to hear 'em). This would serve as your home-- it's where you reform in 2d4 days if you are destroyed (provided you pass your level check against DC 16). The flip side is you go wherever your home goes.... 

So... anyone wanna adopt an elven ghost? 




> Would the Ghost's Etherealness ability work outside of the Prime? Would it be able to reach the Ethereal from any plane?



Nope. Effectively, on the Outer Planes, you're manifested (i.e., incorporeal) all the time since there is no Ethereal (this would be true for _all_ ghosts, not just you). To be ethereal, you have to be on a plane that is coexistent (overlaps) with it. To reach the Ethereal from the Outer Planes, you need to find a portal or use a spell, just like anyone else.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 14, 2004)

Next!



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> Given my preferance for (spontaneous) spellcasters, since there is already quite a bit of interest on the arcane side, I'll probably go for a Favored Soul then (a human (how mundane ) from Toril, with Shaundakul as the deity).



Favored soul... that's a variant core class from Miniatures' Handbook, right? Ok, no prob. Uh, it looks like you don't get domain powers, right?




> Would it be possible to un-nerf Righteous Might (to some degree)?
> 
> I'd just make it exactly like the size change for monsters (+8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor, -1 to hit/AC) and use the lowered Damage Reduction from the errata (3/6/9 instead of 5/10/15).



Yes, that's very reasonable. I had always thought the original was a _little_ too buff, but I also think the errata'd version is a little too weak so this hits the right balance for me. I'll probably adopt this for my house rules... 




> I have included a few custom items (altered slot and a shirt that adds +1 luck bonus to AC). Hope those are ok with you.



They look fine. Could you put in the prices of the magic items in though, please (quicker for me when I review your character)? If it's a created item, put in the price to create and XP cost instead. Thanks!


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## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Favored soul... that's a variant core class from Miniatures' Handbook, right? Ok, no prob. Uh, it looks like you don't get domain powers, right?




It's in MiniHB and Complete Divine. Has no Domains and no Turn Undead (no Divine Might *sniff* ) and spells one level later (like Sorcerer), but spontaneous casting, good Reflex save, and gains a few bonus feats/special abilities (Weapon Proficiency (1st), Weapon Focus (3rd), Weapon Specialization (12th), all with deity's favored weapon, and the Resistances to Energy). The Energy Resistance is 10 points. Otherwise it's pretty much a cleric.



> Yes, that's very reasonable. I had always thought the original was a _little_ too buff, but I also think the errata'd version is a little too weak so this hits the right balance for me. I'll probably adopt this for my house rules...




Great!  Yep, I'm pretty sure this will end up there for our group, too.



> They look fine. Could you put in the prices of the magic items in though, please (quicker for me when I review your character)? If it's a created item, put in the price to create and XP cost instead. Thanks!




Sure.

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

Ok, prices are up.

Bye
Thanee


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## Serpenteye (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Okay, a major point. I know I said I wasn't going to allow any PCs with a greater than +4 LA and the ghost template has a +5 LA.... but I was going to let Lion have a ghostly cohort so it would be rather unfair of me to bar you from this.  That said, I would be happier if you created a ghost character using Ghostwalk instead of the MM template.  But! If you don't have Ghostwalk, I would be willing to make this one exception to the +4 or lower LA rule. I do have a few strings attached though if you choose the MM template...




Thanks. I don't have Ghostwalk, sorry. 



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> firstly, please don't make your Con a dump stat!




But Strength is ok . It is a Sorcerer after all.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> And secondly, that your ghostly character needs to find a 'haunt'-- something or someone that keeps them tied to existence and prevents them from moving on (Lion's ghostly cohort's haunt was assumed to be Vlad). In this case, it would probably another party member or an item in the possession of another party member (though if you have other ideas, I'm willing to hear 'em). This would serve as your home-- it's where you reform in 2d4 days if you are destroyed (provided you pass your level check against DC 16). The flip side is you go wherever your home goes....




So it couldn't just be a refusal to surrender himself to the after-life? A deep fear of death born from the fear of ending up in one of the more unpleasant hells due to all the sins he committed in his life-time? Or maybe a principled refusal to surrender himself at all, to whatever deity, angel or fiend would await him, a complete resolve to keep the control over his own existance? 
 I'm envisioning him as an old (venerable) man (human would work better than Elf), who has lived a long life in devotion to himself (maybe a Sensate, maybe an Athar), who when faced with his own unaviodable death refused and forced himself to carry on.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Nope. Effectively, on the Outer Planes, you're manifested (i.e., incorporeal) all the time since there is no Ethereal (this would be true for _all_ ghosts, not just you). To be ethereal, you have to be on a plane that is coexistent (overlaps) with it. To reach the Ethereal from the Outer Planes, you need to find a portal or use a spell, just like anyone else.




I thought so.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

Thanks, Thanee.

Okay, here's my comments for Zoe Windwalker:

--Hit points should be 104, not 100 (you get max for 1st and 2nd)
--Will save should be +11 (8 base + 3 wis = 11), +17 with Superior Resistance
--I am not using material from BoED so you'll have to find another spell to replace _Eyes of the Avoral_
--No matter how many times I do my math, I'm getting 87,850 gp total for your magic gear, which forces me to conclude that number is indeed correct. Not that that in itself is a problem, but it does mean you can't have 400 gp worth of diamond dust since that would put you over 88,000 gp.
--Please make a note somewhere that her speed is 20 ft. (when in armor).
--And it might not be a bad idea to make another note somewhere that she casts _magic vestment_, _greater magic weapon_, and _superior resistance_ every morning (?) with her bead of karma. (At least that's what I deduced from the bonuses.)

Otherwise, it all looks good. Looking forward to seeing her history and stuff!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> So it couldn't just be a refusal to surrender himself to the after-life? A deep fear of death born from the fear of ending up in one of the more unpleasant hells due to all the sins he committed in his life-time? Or maybe a principled refusal to surrender himself at all, to whatever deity, angel or fiend would await him, a complete resolve to keep the control over his own existance?



Well, it could. But to me that explains why he became a ghost and didn't move on  to his final reward (as opposed to say, being foully murdered and wanting to find his murderer)... and it still leaves the question of an anchor open. In my view, he needs to tie himself to something material to maintain his ghostly existence. Though from the sounds of it, your character would be better served anchored to an object-- something significant to him in life-- than someone.

If you're worried about range, it's not like I'm going to require you stay within 10 feet of the item/person at all times. Your character will have the freedom to range out and scout around if he wishes. But if the item/person jumped into a portal from Sigil to Bytopia, your ghost would inevitably have to follow. Yeah, it can make exploring the multiverse harder because you'd  have convince someone to 'carry' you/the item, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of free-ranging ghosts (not just yours), so this is my way of balancing it a little.


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## deadestdai (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> So... anyone wanna adopt an elven ghost?




Ooooo!

I just kNOw that Flaust would LOVE to hear voices and see whispy things!


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## Ashy (Sep 15, 2004)

Here's a wild and crazy idea!  If the DM approves, do one of you character-creating wizards want to create my character???  Anything you want - go wild - go crazy - make it wierd and off the wall and I will play it!  Just let me do the description and background bits...

Else it might be next week before I can post my character, being away from all my books and all til the weekend...    I don't want to hold the game up.

DM, any thoughts?  (hopeful grin)

EDIT: This option is open to you as well, DM!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

Hey Isida, here are my comments for Blade Stopthrust:

--AC should be 25 (+2 Dex, +12 armor, +1 natural armor)
--Fort save should be +11 (8 base +3 Con = 11), +13 with the cloak
--Weapon damage is a off: for a normal melee attack with her dire flail, it should be 1d8+9 (4 Str + 4 specialization + 2 magic - 1 silver). For two-weapon fighting it should be 1d8+8/1d8+6. Alchemical silver imposes a -1 penalty to damage rolls. :\
--Please make a note that her speed is 20 ft. when in armor.
--Please make another note under her saves indicating she has a +4 bonus on her Will saves. vs Enchantment and a +1 vs. spells and effects from chaotic creatures due to her Axiomatic heritage? It helps me _not_ to forget to apply those bonuses when I roll saves (a good thing!).
--Wow... she's carrying an armory! 

Otherwise, it's all good.

Note to Kajamba Lion: I'll review Vladimir when you've got equipment and spells done for him.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> Here's a wild and crazy idea!  If the DM approves, do one of you character-creating wizards want to create my character???  Anything you want - go wild - go crazy - make it wierd and off the wall and I will play it!  Just let me do the description and background bits...



I have no problems with one player creating another player's character, odd as that practice may be....




> Else it might be next week before I can post my character, being away from all my books and all til the weekend...    I don't want to hold the game up.



...but you're currently an alternate, Ashy.  Unless you know something I don't...  

Still, if you wish to make your character beforehand, you're welcome to.  Since I don't plan to start until next Tuesday (this weekend and upcoming Monday will be rather busy for me), I doubt you'll hold the game up.




> EDIT: This option is open to you as well, DM!



Hmmm... well, if inspiration strikes.... I'll see....


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## Ashy (Sep 15, 2004)

Oh yea, sorry - got overly excited...    What number alt am I???


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

I don't have numbers for alternates, really. If someone drops, I'll put out a call for alternates, and whomever answers first gets the spot (or in Isida's case, she pounced even before I saw Librarian's post....  ). Perhaps not exactly the fairest option per se, but I find it speeds things along.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Hey Isida, here are my comments for Blade Stopthrust:
> 
> --AC should be 25 (+2 Dex, +12 armor, +1 natural armor)
> --Fort save should be +11 (8 base +3 Con = 11), +13 with the cloak
> ...



  Ok, I believe I have made all applicable changes.  And why not carry an armory?  She makes weapons, and gives them away.  And then she's never without something to hit evil things with...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 15, 2004)

Just for kicks, and because I had the time, I whipped up a potential character for Ashy.  

*Burrow
Male Earth Melfling Druid 11*
*Alignment:* Neutral Good
*Patron Deity:* Obad-Hai and Fharlanghn
*Home Plane:* Elemental Plane of Earth
*Height:* 3' 0''
*Weight:* 39lbs
*Skin:* Gray-Brown with clay-like texture
*Eyes:* Obsidian Black
*Age:* 68
*XP:* 66,500

*Str:* 14 (+2) [4 points, +2 racial]  
*Dex:* 10 (+0) [4 points, -2 racial]
*Con:* 18 (+4) [6 points, +4 belt] 
*Int:* 11 (+0) [5 points, -2 racial]  
*Wis:* 20 (+5) [10 points, +2 levels, +2 pearl] 
*Cha:* 15 (+1) [5 points, +2 racial] 

*Class and Racial Abilities:*
+2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Int, extraplanar humanoid, breath weapon (15 ft. cone of rock shards and pebbles, deals 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage, Ref save DC 17 for half, 3 times per day, with 1d4 round between uses), casts earth spells at +1 caster level.  Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy (+14), woodland stride, trackless step, resist nature’s lure, wild shape 4/day (Tiny, Small, Medium, Large), venom immunity, spells.

Has +4 bonus on checks to avoid being bull rushed or tripped while standing on the ground.  Also has +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls if both he and his foe touch the ground.  (Due to Earth Heritage feat).  Also has acid resistance 5 (due to Improved Elemental Heritage feat).

*Hit Dice:* 11d8 + 44
*HP:* 96
*AC:* 16 (+0 Dex, +5 armor, +1 size)
*ACP:* -1
*Init:* +0 (+0 Dex)
*Speed:* 30 ft., burrow 10 ft. (20 ft. in armor)

*Saves:*
Fortitude +11 [+7 base, +4 Con]
Reflex +3 [+3 base, +0 Dex]
Will +12 [+7 base, +5 Wis]

*BAB:* +9/+4 (base +8/+3, +1 for being Small)
*Melee Atk:* +13/+8 (1d6+5+1d6 sonic/x2/B, Avalanche, _+2 thundering club_ weilded two-handed)  
*Ranged Atk:* +9/+4 (1d4/x2/50 ft./B, sling)

*Skills:*
Concentration +7  [5 ranks, +2 Con]
Handle Animal +12 [10 ranks, +2 Cha]
Knowledge (nature) +12 [10 ranks, +0 Int, +2 nature sense]
Listen +10 [6 ranks, +4 Wis]
Ride +12 [10 ranks, +0 Dex, +2 synergy from Handle Animal]
Spot +9 [5 ranks, +4 Wis]
Survival +16 [10 ranks, +4 Wis, +2 nature sense]

*Feats:*
Earth Heritage (1st level)
Improve Elemental Heritage (3rd level)
Endurance (6th level)
Diehard (9th level)

*Languages:*  Common, Druidic

*Spells Prepared*
Save DC +5
0th - _create water, cure minor wounds, detect magic, detect poison, know direction, purify food and drink._
1st - _cure light wounds x2, entangle, goodberry, magic stone x2, speak with animals._
2nd - _barkskin, reduce animal, soften earth and stone* x2, warp wood._
3rd - _cure moderate wounds x2, greater magic fang, meld into stone*, stone shape*._
4th - _planar tolerance x2, spike stones* x2._
5th - _stoneskin, transmute mud to rock*, transmute rock to mud*._
6th - _wall of stone*._
* - Earth spell, is cast at +1 caster level

*Equipment:*
*Belt of Health +4* 16,000gp
*Pearl of Wisdom +2* 4,000gp (worn as headband)
*Hide of Stone Beast (as wild rhino hide armor)* 26,165gp
*Avalanche (+2 thundering club)* 18,300gp
*Hare’s Luck (as cloak of resistance +3)* 9,000gp
*necklace of adaptation* 9,000gp
*Sling* 0gp
*20 sling bullets* 2sp
_*Heward's Handy Haversack*_ 2,000gp
~*Five doses of granite and diamond dust for stoneskin spell* 1,250
~*Scroll of heal* 1,650gp
~*Bedroll* 5sp
~*Everburning torch* 110gp
~*Sunrods (5)* 10gp
~*Waterskin* 1gp
~*50 ft. silk rope* 10gp
~*Trail rations (20 days worth)* 10gp
~*Belt pouch* 1gp
~*Cold weather outfit* 8gp


*Money*
484gp, 3sp

*Claw, dire badger animal companion:*  Large animal; HD 7: hp 81; Init +3; Spd 30 ft., burrow 10 ft.; AC 21 (+3 Dex, +9 natural, -1 size), touch 12, flat-footed 18; Base Atk +4; Grp +15; Atk +14 melee (1d8+10, bite); full Atk +11/+11/+9 melee (1d6+7/1d6+7, claws, 1d8+7, bite); Space/Reach 10 ft./10 ft.; SA rage; SQ low-light vision, scent, link, share spells, evasion, devotion; AL NG; SV Fort +11, Ref +8, Will +4; Str 24, Dex 17, Con 23, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 10.

_Skills and Feats:_  Listen +8, Spot +8; Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Toughness, Track.

_Rage (Ex):_  A dire badger that takes damage in combat flies into a berserk rage on its next turn, clawing and biting madly until either it or its opponent is dead.  It gains +4 Str, +4 Con, and –2 AC.  The badger cannot end its rage voluntarily. 

_Rage Statistics:_  hp 95; AC 18 (touch 9, flat-footed 16); Grp +17; Atk +16 (1d8+12); full Atk +13/+13/+9 (1d6+9/1d6+9, claws, 1d8+9, bite).  SV Fort +13, Ref +8, Will +4; Str 28, Dex 17, Con 27, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 10

_Tricks Known:_  Attack, Come, Defend, Down, Guard, Heel, Track, Stay, Seek.

*Permanent Spell:* _greater magic fang (11th level caster)_ on Claw’s bite.

*Appearance:* 

*Personality:* 

*Background:*


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> She makes weapons, and gives them away.  And then she's never without something to hit evil things with...



Which is never a bad thing, especially for this adventure!


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## deadestdai (Sep 15, 2004)

Flaust Conkersforbrains is up, though without background or Appearance. 

Let me know what I need to change?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 15, 2004)

deadestdai said:
			
		

> Flaust Conkersforbrains is up, though without background or Appearance.
> 
> Let me know what I need to change?



  Lordy lordy, your character and mine are going to get into arguements.  A lot.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

This is by no means a comprehensive examination of Burrow, but I have a few comments from a quick glance-through...

--Wild empathy should be +14 (11 level + 1 Cha +2 synergy from Handle Animal)
--Ride skill should be +12 (10 ranks + 0 Dex + 2 synergy from Handle Animal)
--BAB should be +8/+3 for a 11th level druid, not +9/+4
--Under attacks he's using a merciful quarterstaff and a flaming pistol but under his equipment he's got a thundering club? (Last I checked, pistols were not on the druid list for weapons! )
--Technically speaking, that pearl of wisdom would have to slotted or its cost would double to 8,000 gp

And I remain in awe, as always, at how fast you're able to put a character together, Isida. I _cannot_ do that. I will _never_ be able to do that...


----------



## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> --Hit points should be 104, not 100 (you get max for 1st and 2nd)




Oops, missed that about 2nd level max. 



> --Will save should be +11 (8 base + 3 wis = 11), +17 with Superior Resistance




Oh, probably forgot to raise it after I lowered Wis and then raised Wis again. 



> --I am not using material from BoED so you'll have to find another spell to replace _Eyes of the Avoral_




np



> --No matter how many times I do my math, I'm getting 87,850 gp total for your magic gear, which forces me to conclude that number is indeed correct. Not that that in itself is a problem, but it does mean you can't have 400 gp worth of diamond dust since that would put you over 88,000 gp.




Will look into that again... 

Ok, for some reason I had +600 gp, fixed that by crafting the _Hat of Disguise_ as well (which costs another 20 gp for getting access to the spell used in there). Added another 200 gp of Diamond Dust then, which leaves me at +80 gp (34 -> 114) and -72 XP (66,080 -> 66,008).

Should be good now. 



> --Please make a note somewhere that her speed is 20 ft. (when in armor).




Sure.



> --And it might not be a bad idea to make another note somewhere that she casts _magic vestment_, _greater magic weapon_, and _superior resistance_ every morning (?) with her bead of karma. (At least that's what I deduced from the bonuses.)




Yep, that's why I listed the bonuses to see where they come from, tho she will cast them in the evening (8h before regaining spells) and using Extend to raise the duration to 24h, that's why I included them, since they most commonly would be up.

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

deadestdai said:
			
		

> Flaust Conkersforbrains is up, though without background or Appearance.
> 
> Let me know what I need to change?



Ehr, the first major thing is that Flaust should be 11th level.  At third level, she paid 3,000 XP to get rid of her level adjustment. That means it effectively drops her total XP from 68,000 to 65,000. Which puts her right below 12th.

Since that changes a number of things, I'll wait until you've made the other adjustments.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> This is by no means a comprehensive examination of Burrow, but I have a few comments from a quick glance-through...
> 
> --Wild empathy should be +14 (11 level + 1 Cha +2 synergy from Handle Animal)
> --Ride skill should be +12 (10 ranks + 0 Dex + 2 synergy from Handle Animal)



  Okiday.


> --BAB should be +8/+3 for a 11th level druid, not +9/+4



  He's Small, and thus gets +1 bonus to attack.  I shall list it separately for ease when wildshaping.


> --Under attacks he's using a merciful quarterstaff and a flaming pistol but under his equipment he's got a thundering club? (Last I checked, pistols were not on the druid list for weapons! )



  My bad, fixed.


> --Technically speaking, that pearl of wisdom would have to slotted or its cost would double to 8,000 gp



  Sorry, I should have noted that it was slotted to the amulet slot.  



> And I remain in awe, as always, at how fast you're able to put a character together, Isida. I _cannot_ do that. I will _never_ be able to do that...



 Worry not.  Part of it is that I have a template that has every possible thing in it.  You've probably seen the character before, Quillia, the gnome wizard I use as a sample character for most of my 3.5 games.  That character sheet has spells, a familiar, a spellbook, as well as bonus feats and things like that.  

The other part is as a DM in college, I wouldn't have time to do NPCs very quickly, and the little time I had to make them custom instead of using an NPC generator, I had to move quickly.  I'm also what I refer to as a "rules gopher."  I know what page everything I want is on, and I go there quickly.  I also use a calculator to make sure I don't screw up my cash or skill point totals too badly, and once I have a theme for a character in my head, I can pick out feats and skills from the PHB generally without looking.  I also try not to do a lot with disposable magic items unless I have time, preferring to spend my money in large chunks.  That cuts down on equiping time.  So... no real magic, just a combination of a few simple tools and a memory for trivia.


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## deadestdai (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ehr, the first major thing is that Flaust should be 11th level.  At third level, she paid 3,000 XP to get rid of her level adjustment. That means it effectively drops her total XP from 68,000 to 65,000. Which puts her right below 12th.
> 
> Since that changes a number of things, I'll wait until you've made the other adjustments.





Crap - I wasn't paying attention properly now, was I?

I'll check it out tomorrow after work.  Thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 15, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> He's Small, and thus gets +1 bonus to attack.  I shall list it separately for ease when wildshaping.



Ah, I don't normally factor size into BAB.




> Sorry, I should have noted that it was slotted to the amulet slot.



But he's already wearing a necklace of adaptation.... :\




> The other part is as a DM in college, I wouldn't have time to do NPCs very quickly, and the little time I had to make them custom instead of using an NPC generator, I had to move quickly.  I'm also what I refer to as a "rules gopher."  I know what page everything I want is on, and I go there quickly.  I also use a calculator to make sure I don't screw up my cash or skill point totals too badly, and once I have a theme for a character in my head, I can pick out feats and skills from the PHB generally without looking.  I also try not to do a lot with disposable magic items unless I have time, preferring to spend my money in large chunks.  That cuts down on equiping time.  So... no real magic, just a combination of a few simple tools and a memory for trivia.



That's still pretty amazing, though. I know the rules and numbers pretty well so that's not a problem but I get hung up on picking things-- skills, feats, spells, what have you.  That takes me forever.  But I also meant your speed at picking a character concept and running with it. NPCs aren't too bad in that regard; usually, they're there to fulfill some sort of role and hence it's pretty easy to put something together. But for PCs, it usually takes me a while to come up with an idea that I like and find interesting enough that makes me want to play it. It's like I have to find a hook or something.


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## Serpenteye (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Well, it could. But to me that explains why he became a ghost and didn't move on  to his final reward (as opposed to say, being foully murdered and wanting to find his murderer)... and it still leaves the question of an anchor open. In my view, he needs to tie himself to something material to maintain his ghostly existence. Though from the sounds of it, your character would be better served anchored to an object-- something significant to him in life-- than someone.




The SRD mentions nothing about an anchor, but it does mention the Ghosts grave-site and that the physical orginals of the ghost's equipment lies there and that they must remain there in order to be usable to the ghost. That's not a magical compulsion, but a practical consideration that could serve as an anchor.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> If you're worried about range, it's not like I'm going to require you stay within 10 feet of the item/person at all times. Your character will have the freedom to range out and scout around if he wishes. But if the item/person jumped into a portal from Sigil to Bytopia, your ghost would inevitably have to follow. Yeah, it can make exploring the multiverse harder because you'd  have convince someone to 'carry' you/the item, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of free-ranging ghosts (not just yours), so this is my way of balancing it a little.




My greatest worry is one of character motivation. What could possibly persuade a person to stick around after his death? Which powerful emotional force could motivate that?

There is nothing that could reasonably tie him to any particular item... He could be "protecting a family heirloom" or "a memento from a long lost love", but what sane person would devote his entire existance to that? What would be the point? Wouldn't he simply get over it? Isn't it greater to go out into the infinite multiverse and live, live eternally, tasting life trough a thousand malevolenced possessions?

He could be tied to another person, I guess. Love can do strange things to people, and people give up their own lives to obsess over someone else all the time. But that would also be a RP-problem. Whatever he's anchored to has got to be an object of powerful obsession, he has to love absolutely and desperately. (Whether that is romantic love or the love of family would depend on the other character, his race is not set in stone) That would be a tremendous role-playing challenge for me and for the other player who'se character is the object of the obsession. I'm not sure I could make that credible, and I'm not sure that it would be good for the party and the game if I tried.
The fact that he (I) would be completely dependant on another character (player) would reduce him to little more than a cohort. I guess that my character would be ripped away into oblivion as soon as the other character died, wether of violence or old age. And that kind of makes his primary motivation, the obsession for immortality, pointless.




			
				SRD3 said:
			
		

> Ghostly Equipment
> When a ghost forms, all its equipment and carried items usually become ethereal along with it. In addition, the ghost retains 2d4 items that it particularly valued in life (provided they are not in another creature’s possession). The equipment works normally on the Ethereal Plane but passes harmlessly through material objects or creatures. A weapon of +1 or better magical enhancement, however, can harm material creatures when the ghost manifests, but any such attack has a 50% chance to fail unless the weapon is a ghost touch weapon (just as magic weapons can fail to harm the ghost).
> *The original material items remain behind, just as the ghost’s physical remains do. If another creature seizes the original, the ethereal copy fades away. This loss invariably angers the ghost, who stops at nothing to return the item to its original resting place.*




These items would serve to achor the ghost to a specific location, not by magical compulsion but by a practical need to protect his ethereal equipment. The location of his grave would have to be somehow protected or hidden.
Having his grave-site as a de-facto anchor would also give him a way to make use of his new-found magical equipment. By returning to his grave and, with some sort of burial-ritual, placing the new equipment in the grave he would create an ethereal copy of the equipment that he could use. Otherwise the wealth-levels in the party would soon become severely unbalanced.


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ehr, the first major thing is that Flaust should be 11th level.  At third level, she paid 3,000 XP to get rid of her level adjustment. That means it effectively drops her total XP from 68,000 to 65,000. Which puts her right below 12th.
> 
> Since that changes a number of things, I'll wait until you've made the other adjustments.




How does that work, btw? The paying off of level adjustment? I don't have whatever book that rule is in, but it sound like I could use that for my character.


----------



## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

There are two (three?) specific levels at which you can choose to pay an amount of XP and reduce LA by one. Don't have the specifics handy.

 Basically you will slowly keep up (since you will then be of a lower total level and gain more XP in relation) that way, so at higher levels, LA isn't that much of a factor anymore. Low LA races lose their disadvantage completely after a while, but it takes a long time to get there (like 15th level or so to completely lose 2 LA and have the same XP as a character that started with +0 LA).

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> But he's already wearing a necklace of adaptation.... :\



  Are you sure you are looking at the right character!?

  Havn't seen that necklace there... actually I havn't even seen that _pearl of wisdom_ either. Maybe it has been changed already? 


 @Isida: Unless that has been changed in 3.5, you need to enchant each head of a double weapon seperately, just as if you had two individual weapons... :\

 Also, I think that Signet Ring would work great as a _Gate Compass_. 

  Bye
  Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

Also, Isida, you seem to missed out on two feats (Ftr 4th and 12th)!

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 15, 2004)

I've posted Vlad's equipment and spellbook.  The only thing I'm a little sketchy on is his spiked chain, which I've had him craft as a _+2 ghost touch spiked chain_ with someone else enchanting it as _holy_.  This gives me the following:

02275 plane shift scroll
-----------------------
02275 gp materials

00325 MW Spiked Chain
08000 +2 enhancement bonus
02000 ghost touch
----------------------------
10325 gold -- divided by two, that gives me 5162.5 gp cost for what I craft

02275.0 materials
05162.5 crafting cost
08000.0 holy (Vlad can't cast _holy smite_)
--------------------------------
17437.5 gp total cost along with 413 xp

Am I doing this right or am I not supposed to go a la carte with the price menu?

In other news, I'll have his background, description, and familiar (an earth mephit) up this afternoon. 

thanks,
Nick


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 15, 2004)

I took three planar substitution levels, which means I give up my feats for those levels (4, 8, and 12) in favor of the cool abilities I get.  In addition I fixed the two-headed weapon thingy, by dropping my _ring of feather falling_ and buying a simple +1 for the other head of the dire flail.   

Also, I switched the pearl of wisdom to a headband on Burrow, so I think I fixed the slot problems...



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> Also, I think that Signet Ring would work great as a _Gate Compass_.



  It rather would, wouldn't it?  If we get the opportunity, I'll go for it.  



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> That's still pretty amazing, though. I know the rules and numbers pretty well so that's not a problem but I get hung up on picking things-- skills, feats, spells, what have you.  That takes me forever.  But I also meant your speed at picking a character concept and running with it. NPCs aren't too bad in that regard; usually, they're there to fulfill some sort of role and hence it's pretty easy to put something together. But for PCs, it usually takes me a while to come up with an idea that I like and find interesting enough that makes me want to play it. It's like I have to find a hook or something.



  Well, since Ashy wanted a fairly vague "anything," I just flipped open the Planar Handbook to see if there was anything that tripped my trigger.  I had read the mephlings before, and so I though I'd choose one of them.  No one had made a druid yet, and I think they're kinda cool, and that's the earth mephlings favored class, so _boom_, there's class and race.  To keep it simple, no multiclassing or prestige classing.

Since I had an earth theme, I just ran with it to pick spells, feats, skills, equipment, and animal companion.


----------



## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

@Isida: _Gate Compass_ is a magic item from Planar Handbook, costs like 2,500 gp.

Ahh, Planar Substitution levels certainly explain that... I havn't found any rules for Favored Souls there, so I didn't bother about those. 

@Kajamba Lion: I'm not quite sure what you mean up there.  A _+2 Ghost Touch Holy Spiked Chain_ is a +5 weapon and costs ~50,000 gp. If you craft it up to +3 yourself, that would be ~9,000 gp saved, which you pay for in XP accordingly. The total cost would still be somewhere around ~41,000 gp.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

@Sephiroth: Would you have any problems with a Spellblade (from PGtF) for Greater Dispel Magic (instead of the Ring of Counterspells and something else)?

Apart from that, I'll do a few minor changes still, swap a feat and a few attribute points, one spell (Align Weapon doesn't seem very useful since Holy includes good already, which I wasn't aware of ).

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 15, 2004)

Good idea.  With a bit of shifting my cash about, I now have a pretty Gate Compass for traveling the planes...


----------



## Citizen Mane (Sep 15, 2004)

I had the feeling I was doing something wrong (I was buying "pluses" off the menu like it was an all you can eat buffet).  Right then, I'll nix the spiked chain and see if I can rebuild something similar, but cheaper.

Nick


----------



## Citizen Mane (Sep 15, 2004)

This should be okay then:

00325 mw spiked chain
18000 +3 weapon
-----------------------------------
18325 total
x  .50 craft
-----------------------------------
09162.5 gp, 733 xp to make a _+3 spiked chain_

This should leave me with 8275 gp to spend.

Nick


----------



## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

The special abilities are just substituted for the "pluses". So, a +3 weapon could be either simple _+3_, or _+2 Ghost Touch_, or _+1 Holy_, all of those add up to a +3 weapon bonus.

That's why, even though the maximum enhancement bonus is _+5_, the table goes all the way to a +10 weapon bonus, since you can have a _+5 Holy Cold Keen Ghost Touch_ weapon, for example, which would be a total weapon bonus of +10, but an enhancement bonus of _+5_.

All you do is add together the "pluses" to derive the total weapon bonus and look up the base price.


Now for the bad news...

Since your caster level is only 7th, you can only craft weapons with a _+2_ *enhancement bonus* (1/3 of your caster level) yourself. If you had the *Practiced Spellcaster* feat from Complete Divine, your caster level (necromancer) would be 11th and allow up to _+3_ weapons right now (_+4_ next level). Might be worth thinking about, that's a pretty good feat for a character like yours. In your case it adds a plain +4 bonus to the necromancer caster level to determine spell effects, durations, range, checks to overcome spell resistance, and so on.

However, adding in special abilities, while they are just added to the enhancement bonus to derive the cost, are looked at seperately for prerequisites, that is, you only need to fulfill the caster level requirement of each special ability (listed with the description in the DMG or SRD), plus any spell requirements (though, someone else can help out here, while you still craft the weapon) *and* the three times enhancement bonus requirement, which does allow to craft a weapon with a total weapon bonus (summed up "pluses") of higher than 1/3 CL. Technically, you could even craft a +10 weapon then, if you have the resources and find enough special abilities with an individual caster level requirement of 7th or lower.

So, what you could do right now would be a _+2 Spiked Chain_ or even a _+2 Holy Spiked Chain_ (a +4 total weapon bonus), if you had someone to cast Holy Smite for you quite a few times (once per 1,000 gp base cost, so at least 16 times, if you would make it _+1_ first, then add in _Holy_ and then upgrade it to _+2_), but you will need someone else to add the missing portion altogether, if you cannot fulfill that individual caster level requirement, as for _Ghost Touch_, for example.

Example prices, if you craft the _+2_ yourself and then have someone else raise it to _+3_ or _+4_ or add in some equivalent special ability:

_+2_ (8,325 gp) -> 4,325 gp + 320 XP
_+3_ (18,325 gp) -> 14,325 gp + 320 XP
_+4_ (32,325 gp) -> 28,325 gp + 320 XP

With Practiced Spellcaster you could make most weapons yourself by now, and you could make the enhancement bonus up to _+3_ yourself, too.

Hope this makes the whole thing more clear! 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Citizen Mane (Sep 15, 2004)

All right.  I'll knock it down to +2, as I don't have Complete Divine (and rather like the feats I've chosen).  That'll result in a little more cash to spend and xp to play with, but I've got to run now, so that'll wait until late tonight.  

thanks,
Nick


----------



## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

For Practiced Spellcaster you could drop Combat Casting, you won't need that, anyways, since you beat the DC of 15+SL for defensive casting on a 1+ already even without the feat. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Citizen Mane (Sep 15, 2004)

Hmm.  Something to think about there.    Thanks.

Nick


----------



## Thanee (Sep 15, 2004)

Well, if you consider it, here's what it does in short...

*Practiced Spellcaster*

_Prerequisites:_ Spellcraft 4 ranks.
_Benefit:_ The caster level for one spellcasting class is increased by +4, but cannot exceed your hit dice.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Ashy (Sep 15, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Just for kicks, and because I had the time, I whipped up a potential character for Ashy.




COOL!!!!   THANKS!   I love it!  Now I can't wait to play it!


----------



## deadestdai (Sep 16, 2004)

Hrm.... My PC has attracted unwanted attention and I now need as total Bios reboot and hard drive reformat. My update of Flaust will have to be after that.  :\  I hate viruses.

Sorry all.....


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> The SRD mentions nothing about an anchor, but it does mention the Ghosts grave-site and that the physical orginals of the ghost's equipment lies there and that they must remain there in order to be usable to the ghost. That's not a magical compulsion, but a practical consideration that could serve as an anchor.



I meant anchor more in a flavor sense (since ghosts are traditionally anchored to the place of their death) rather than any mechanistic sense. But yes, a ghost's physical remains do often serve as their "anchor."




> My greatest worry is one of character motivation. What could possibly persuade a person to stick around after his death? Which powerful emotional force could motivate that?



Well, that is one of the tricky things about playing a ghost, I would agree. But you mentioned that your character perhaps was determined to stay in the mortal realms, partly out of fear of what awaited him in the Afterlife, partly determined to be master of his own fate, no matter what. I could see that as an acceptable drive. Ever reading any of the Sandman comics? There's a character in there, Hobbs Gadlin (sp?), who is effectively immortal because, well, he chooses not to die. (Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but the premise remains the same.) It'd be kinda the same... your character sticks around because well, he chooses to, very, very strongly.




> There is nothing that could reasonably tie him to any particular item... He could be "protecting a family heirloom" or "a memento from a long lost love", but what sane person would devote his entire existance to that?



But I would argue that ghosts are rarely sane to begin with.  There are plenty of ghosts in literature who linger on, long after their reason for doing so is gone. It's not logical (or sane) but people rarely are, and dead people are no exception. Ghosts are usually tragic because of the circumstances of their death and their inability to let go of something or someone or some event.




> What would be the point? Wouldn't he simply get over it? Isn't it greater to go out into the infinite multiverse and live, live eternally, tasting life trough a thousand malevolenced possessions?



Perhaps. But wouldn't that make you an evilish body snatcher (unless, of course, you found someone who willingly let you possess them-- but then, who willingly gives up their life so some dead spirit can live theirs)?  But to get back to the topic, the whole point about lots of ghosts is that they _don't_ "get over it." When they finally do, that's when they move on (disappear or get put to rest or whatever).




> He could be tied to another person, I guess. Love can do strange things to people, and people give up their own lives to obsess over someone else all the time. But that would also be a RP-problem. Whatever he's anchored to has got to be an object of powerful obsession, he has to love absolutely and desperately. (Whether that is romantic love or the love of family would depend on the other character, his race is not set in stone) That would be a tremendous role-playing challenge for me and for the other player who'se character is the object of the obsession. I'm not sure I could make that credible, and I'm not sure that it would be good for the party and the game if I tried.



Hmmm... probably not. Could be an interesting experience, but I agree, it would also carry a large potential for a mess-up. And it's not something I would want to force on a player anyhow.




> The fact that he (I) would be completely dependant on another character (player) would reduce him to little more than a cohort. I guess that my character would be ripped away into oblivion as soon as the other character died, wether of violence or old age. And that kind of makes his primary motivation, the obsession for immortality, pointless.



Hmmm... I do agree that it wouldn't be fair to you in that regard.  Though I had been actually thinking more that your character could be tied to an item, not a person, and that to travel around, you'd have to 'bargain' with people to carry your item with them (maybe by offering to be a guide? He could have been dead for a while, and seen many places). An option would be an item significant to him in life, but other options could exist too, like an object which captured his soul (maybe like a lich's phylactery?) or even maybe just a piece of him (uh, a fingerbone filigreed in gold and set with gems?).

Still, that would make your character more dependent on the others than usual, which as you've pointed out, isn't quite fair. But if nothing of the above appeals to you at all in role-playing or character wise, I suppose we can look at the option below-- that is, his 'anchor' is his grave-site.




> These items would serve to achor the ghost to a specific location, not by magical compulsion but by a practical need to protect his ethereal equipment. The location of his grave would have to be somehow protected or hidden.



I would have thought this would be rather objectionable to you since, well, it sorta forces your character to stay in one place if he wants to protect his equipment. Wouldn't that defeat his purpose of thumbing his nose at death and experience the multiverse?




> Having his grave-site as a de-facto anchor would also give him a way to make use of his new-found magical equipment. By returning to his grave and, with some sort of burial-ritual, placing the new equipment in the grave he would create an ethereal copy of the equipment that he could use. Otherwise the wealth-levels in the party would soon become severely unbalanced.



Wouldn't this mean that if the party got new treasure, they would have to go to your character's grave and place it there if he wants to be able to use it? And wouldn't it also mean you'd have to trust the party with the precious information of where your grave is? (But then, I suppose ghostly characters open up a whole can of worms on the equipment front, anyway.  )

Serpenteye, if you want to make the character's grave his anchor point, you can. That would be acceptable to me. I personally think some of the other ideas could be really neat, role-playing wise, but I don't want to force anything on you. If this last option is the most comfortable for you, then I say we go with it. 




> How does that work, btw? The paying off of level adjustment? I don't have whatever book that rule is in, but it sound like I could use that for my character.



I don't have access to my books right now so I can't answer the buying off LA question quite yet. When I get home tonight, I'll try to put up an explanation.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 16, 2004)

Sephiroth, Serpenteye, I may have an rather unusual solution for your ghost situation.  I've written a prestige class called The Song Ghost, in which a bard literally bonds with a spirit in order to help it complete the task that held it to life.  However, for Serpenteye's character, you could turn this PrC on its head.  Make the Song Ghost your cohort, and perhaps select an elf or similarly long-lived race so that you can say you've been around for a while.  Just a suggestion.


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 16, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Well, that is one of the tricky things about playing a ghost, I would agree. But you mentioned that your character perhaps was determined to stay in the mortal realms, partly out of fear of what awaited him in the Afterlife, partly determined to be master of his own fate, no matter what. I could see that as an acceptable drive. Ever reading any of the Sandman comics? There's a character in there, Hobbs Gadlin (sp?), who is effectively immortal because, well, he chooses not to die. (Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but the premise remains the same.) It'd be kinda the same... your character sticks around because well, he chooses to, very, very strongly.




Yes, that's pretty much his primary motivation.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> But I would argue that ghosts are rarely sane to begin with.  There are plenty of ghosts in literature who linger on, long after their reason for doing so is gone. It's not logical (or sane) but people rarely are, and dead people are no exception. Ghosts are usually tragic because of the circumstances of their death and their inability to let go of something or someone or some event.




True, true. But the myth about the tragicness and insanity of ghosts is based on the belief that the afterlife is someting positive, a paradise, and that the ghost would be much happier if he was truly dead.
 The Planescape afterlife is no such thing. When a person dies they are transformed into petitioners, in the plane of their alignment or deity. Petitiones are mindless slaves who retain no memory of their previous lives and retain none of the qualities, besides their alignment, they had in life. They are effectively recycled life-forms, and no matter the plane they end up in their only duty and responsibility is serving their all important alignment. They are still mindless drones with no free will. Though some of them are elevated to higher forms they are still slaves if their alignment is Good or LN and that goes, for a lesser degree for all alignments. Slaadi are bubbling idiots and fiends, though free willed, are trapped in a destructive system and in their own evil. When they eventually die yet again they are consumed by their plane and utterly destroyed.
 And that is a fate worse than un-death, in my character's opinion.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Perhaps. But wouldn't that make you an evilish body snatcher (unless, of course, you found someone who willingly let you possess them-- but then, who willingly gives up their life so some dead spirit can live theirs)?




Kind of, but that would depend on what kind of creatures he posessed. Evil people are generally a lot more interesting than good ones, perhaps he prefers peeking into their heads. 



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> But to get back to the topic, the whole point about lots of ghosts is that they _don't_ "get over it." When they finally do, that's when they move on (disappear or get put to rest or whatever).




Then the "it" has to be something that makes sence, like the refusal to die.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Hmmm... I do agree that it wouldn't be fair to you in that regard.  Though I had been actually thinking more that your character could be tied to an item, not a person, and that to travel around, you'd have to 'bargain' with people to carry your item with them (maybe by offering to be a guide? He could have been dead for a while, and seen many places). An option would be an item significant to him in life, but other options could exist too, like an object which captured his soul (maybe like a lich's phylactery?) or even maybe just a piece of him (uh, a fingerbone filigreed in gold and set with gems?).
> 
> Still, that would make your character more dependent on the others than usual, which as you've pointed out, isn't quite fair. But if nothing of the above appeals to you at all in role-playing or character wise, I suppose we can look at the option below-- that is, his 'anchor' is his grave-site.




What would happen if the item was destroyed? Could he find another token as an anchor, or would he simply fade away?



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> I would have thought this would be rather objectionable to you since, well, it sorta forces your character to stay in one place if he wants to protect his equipment. Wouldn't that defeat his purpose of thumbing his nose at death and experience the multiverse?




That's something I'm willing to accept, to a degree, as long as it wasn't an unavoidable magical compulsion but a practical consideration. He would look after his grave as an act of his own free will.
I imagine most adventurers have something they leave behind when they go out adventuring, something they might want to protect, something they will check up on every now and then. It will be the same way for my character, but instead of friends and family it's his grave.




			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Wouldn't this mean that if the party got new treasure, they would have to go to your character's grave and place it there if he wants to be able to use it? And wouldn't it also mean you'd have to trust the party with the precious information of where your grave is? (But then, I suppose ghostly characters open up a whole can of worms on the equipment front, anyway.  )




He would have to go back to his grave to be able to use his new equipment, but that doesn't mean that he would let the other characters go with him, and it's better than getting no new equipment at all. There's not many items made specifically for ghosts, are there? As a Sorcerer he has limited use for Ghost Touch weapons.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Serpenteye, if you want to make the character's grave his anchor point, you can. That would be acceptable to me. I personally think some of the other ideas could be really neat, role-playing wise, but I don't want to force anything on you. If this last option is the most comfortable for you, then I say we go with it.




I would like that . I think that if we made an item his anchor he would have to spend most of his time posessing someone to carry it, and that would really not be using his abilities to their fullest potential.


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 16, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Sephiroth, Serpenteye, I may have an rather unusual solution for your ghost situation.  I've written a prestige class called The Song Ghost, in which a bard literally bonds with a spirit in order to help it complete the task that held it to life.  However, for Serpenteye's character, you could turn this PrC on its head.  Make the Song Ghost your cohort, and perhaps select an elf or similarly long-lived race so that you can say you've been around for a while.  Just a suggestion.




Maybe, but the link leads to the Songheart and I can't seem to find the Song Ghost on your link-list of classes.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 16, 2004)

Ok, I fixed the link now.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

For Serpenteye:

To buy off LAs, your character must be a certain minimum character level (therefore, this level does not include Racial Hit Dice or the LA itself) as indicated on the following table:


```
LA          Minimum Character Level
+1          3
+2          6, 9
+3          9, 15, 18
+4          12
+5          15
+6          18
```

When he reaches the minimum level, he must pay XP equal to his current (ECL - 1) X 1000 XP. This will reduce his LA (and effective ECL) by +1. To clarify, here's a few examples: for instance, Flaust is a tiefer and has a +1 LA. When she reaches 3rd level (4 ECL), she can spend 3,000 XP to reduce her LA from +1 to +0 and now follows the standard table for level progression. However, if she was a race with a higher ECL, like a drow, who has an ECL of +2, she would have to wait until she was 6th level (ECL 8) to buy off one LA reduction, spending 7,000 XP in the process. At 9th (ECL 10), she can can spend another 9,000 XP to get rid of the her second LA. So the higher your LA, the higher level you have to before you can start buying off your LA, and you also spend more experience doing so.

In your ghost character's case, since he has an LA of +5, he would need to be 15th level (ECL 20) and spend 19,000 XP to reduce his LA from +5 to +4. The book is not too clear on the higher LA adjustments after that, unfortunately.  Since he would be LA +4 then, I assume he could spend another 18,000 XP to reduce it to +3 since he's already above the 12th level limit for +4 LA characters. (Can someone confirm or correct this?)

In any case, I'm afraid it's not much of a help to your character, since his LA is so high. :\


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> @Sephiroth: Would you have any problems with a Spellblade (from PGtF) for Greater Dispel Magic (instead of the Ring of Counterspells and something else)?



Np. But be aware that it won't work if the _greater dispel magic_ is an area effect, nor will it work if your opponent simply casts _dispel magic_ at you.




> Apart from that, I'll do a few minor changes still, swap a feat and a few attribute points, one spell (Align Weapon doesn't seem very useful since Holy includes good already, which I wasn't aware of ).



Plus it won't work on your holy greatsword. OTOH, it's handy if you need to hit something that has DR with a different AL component such as Law or Chaos. But that's pretty rare.

P.S. Thanks for catching the enhancement bonus thing with Blade's dire flail. I often forget those.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

Okay, Kajamba Lion, here's my comments for Vladimir Kronenheim:

--AC is correct but your Dex modifier note isn't
--Reflex save should be +7 (3 base + 2 Dex + 2 grace = 7), +9 with the cloak
--You have a +2d6 against evil under your Full Attack entry and I'm not sure where that comes from since your weapon isn't holy.
--Vlad should have 67 skill points but when I add up your ranks, I'm coming up with 70. (67 = 21 points from levels 1-3, 40 points from levels 4-11, and 6 points from level 12.) You'll need to remove 3 skill points from somewhere.
--Knowledge: Religion should be +10 (5 ranks + 5 Int). Same with Knowledgge: Planes.
--Spellcraft should be +18 (13 ranks, +5 Int).
--Price for your _+3 spiked chain_ should be 9000 gp + 109 gp + 720 XP. You only to pay XP costs for the magical portion of the cost and the 109 gp is from me assuming you craft the weapon yourself with the Craft skill.
--I added up the 2 scrolls of _Mordenkainen's faithful hound_ (2,250 gp), 2 scrolls of _summon monster V_ (2,250 gp), and scroll of _plane shift_ (2,275 gp) and I'm getting 6,775 gp, not 7,775 gp.
--I added up all the prices for Vlad's magical gear (using the numbers above) and the cost to scribe his spells and I'm coming up with 88,659 gp which is over his limit. (I have his magical gear total at 83,559 gp and his spells cost at 5100 gp.)
--Technically speaking, Vlad's XP should be 66,880 XP. He suffers a -20% XP penalty ever since he hit 12th level which gave him a starting XP of 67,600. Then subtract 720 XP for item creation.

Okay, that's it! And since Thanee explained how making magic weapons work so nicely, I hope that's clear for you. I know he's not high enough caster level to make a +3 weapon by himself but he can corroborate with someone-- for example, Zoe, since it looks like she could use some help with her gloves of dex-- so I'm not too worried about that. Of course, that would require that he knows Zoe beforehand.... but well, whatever. It's not a big deal.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

A clarification on weapon and armor creation for everyone:

You *don't* need to pay XP for the masterwork portion of the weapon or armor's cost when making magical arms and armor, but you do need to pay full price (unless you're using the Craft skill to make the item, in which case, you pay only 1/3rd the market price for materials).

So a _+1 longsword_ would cost 1315 gp (1000 + 300 + 15) and 80 XP (1/25th of 2000) to create.
And a _+1 breastplate_ would cost 800 gp (500 + 150 + 150) and 40 XP to create (1/25th of 1000).

[/pointlessserviceannouncement  ]


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 16, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> For Serpenteye:
> 
> In any case, I'm afraid it's not much of a help to your character, since his LA is so high. :\




 No, not much help... But I guess I'll adapt. A Ghost can be very powerful if it's played well. 
I wonder if Sorcerer is the right path to take for him, though. He'll be able to make a much greater impact with Telekinesis and Malevolence than with 3rd level spells, but as a Sorcerer he will get a good synergy with his Charisma. Paladin offers some good possibilities, but it would be pretty weird on a Ghost. Ranger gives good skills and two-weapon fighting, something that would be very useful with some of the ghost's special abilities, and the reduced HD is of no consequence so it's much better than the other fighting classes. The animal companion could be interesting rp-wise but of little practical use and very limited durability. Weapon proficiencies will be useful when he's posessing our fiendish enemies.
The Rogue gains almost as much, and fits the theme better. I guess I'll have to look closer at my strategies...


Do any of you know any good charisma-based fighting-feats?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

deadestdai said:
			
		

> Hrm.... My PC has attracted unwanted attention and I now need as total Bios reboot and hard drive reformat. My update of Flaust will have to be after that.  :\  I hate viruses.



Ugh... that's highly unpleasant (the re-format, not Flaust's update). I hope you had all your files backed-up...


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 16, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok, I fixed the link now.




It's a very well-made class, and it's not a bad PC for a Bard, but it doesn't really fit. Why would I pay a +5 LA for being trapped inside someone's head and being unable to use most of my special abilities?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> True, true. But the myth about the tragicness and insanity of ghosts is based on the belief that the afterlife is someting positive, a paradise, and that the ghost would be much happier if he was truly dead.
> The Planescape afterlife is no such thing.



I can't say I'm exactly thrilled with the way the 'Afterlife' is set up in PS, and it all seems so... I dunno, bleah (particularly the petitioners)... but unless I want to re-write the cosmology  we're stuck with it. Besides, I can understand the reluctance of the game designers not to have adventurers traipsing around 'paradise.'  (I mean, if it's paradise, why adventure? Why not just enjoy it?)




> Kind of, but that would depend on what kind of creatures he posessed. Evil people are generally a lot more interesting than good ones, perhaps he prefers peeking into their heads.



Yeah, but two evils still don't make a right. Possessing unwilling evil people (or creatures) is no less evil than possessing willing good people. :\ We just might not feel as sorry for them....

Do you have BoVD? There's a whole set of rules in there for possession (it's also in Ghostwalk), which I guess we'll be needing for your character.




> What would happen if the item was destroyed? Could he find another token as an anchor, or would he simply fade away?



He'd be able to find another anchor, but if it's not done with within a certain time frame, he'd start having to make saves to remain. At least that's how I see it.




> I imagine most adventurers have something they leave behind when they go out adventuring, something they might want to protect, something they will check up on every now and then. It will be the same way for my character, but instead of friends and family it's his grave.



Some adventurers do, but many don't. "Orphan" seems to be a popular background choice for many adventurers  and for a lot of them, it seems that the party is their family.




> He would have to go back to his grave to be able to use his new equipment, but that doesn't mean that he would let the other characters go with him, and it's better than getting no new equipment at all. There's not many items made specifically for ghosts, are there? As a Sorcerer he has limited use for Ghost Touch weapons.



Ehr, no. On the other hand, there's very little a ghost needs really. It doesn't eat, drink, or breath. It cannot feel cold or hot. It's got a slew of undead immunities and great mobility. I guess you would primarily need protective items, and some utility items. Healing might be concern, since good clerics won't be able to heal you without memorizing _inflict_ spells.




> I would like that . I think that if we made an item his anchor he would have to spend most of his time posessing someone to carry it, and that would really not be using his abilities to their fullest potential.



Hmmm... why would you assume he'd be possessing them to carry it? Couldn't he simply persuade them to carry it of their own free will? It's not like he'd be asking them to carry something huge and unwieldly.




> Do any of you know any good charisma-based fighting-feats?



Unfortunately, no. :\ Charisma seems to be a dump stat for most warriors, excepting paladins, for whom Divine Might is a nifty feat. But that also requires an ability to turn undead.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Sephiroth, Serpenteye, I may have an rather unusual solution for your ghost situation.  I've written a prestige class called The Song Ghost, in which a bard literally bonds with a spirit in order to help it complete the task that held it to life.  However, for Serpenteye's character, you could turn this PrC on its head.  Make the Song Ghost your cohort, and perhaps select an elf or similarly long-lived race so that you can say you've been around for a while.  Just a suggestion.



Thanks for the suggestion, Isida, and I would have to say I think the Song Ghost is a neat, neat prestige class (esp. since I'm playing one ) but I think it would require too extensive of a re-working (even turning it on its head) to fit what Serpenteye has in mind for his character.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

Ehr, Sepenteye, I currently have a bit of an issue with how you've distributed your character's ability points. If your elven rogue character was still alive, he'd have an Con score of... 6? Don't you think that's rather low!?  

As I've said before, please don't make Con a dump stat just because you've adopted the ghost template. He may be dead now, but he was alive once-- please give him a reasonable Con score. An 7th level rogue with 13 hit points is _not_ plausible.


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 16, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> I can't say I'm exactly thrilled with the way the 'Afterlife' is set up in PS, and it all seems so... I dunno, bleah (particularly the petitioners)... but unless I want to re-write the cosmology  we're stuck with it.




The heavens and the hells seem almost equally like a punishment, what with the eternal servitude and all. Though I can't say I'm too fond of the conventional idea of a heaven either. Dante's version of paradise just creeps me out, I'd prefer to spend eternity in the first circle of hell.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Yeah, but two evils still don't make a right. Possessing unwilling evil people (or creatures) is no less evil than possessing willing good people. :\ We just might not feel as sorry for them....
> 
> Do you have BoVD? There's a whole set of rules in there for possession (it's also in Ghostwalk), which I guess we'll be needing for your character.




I suppose one could provoke a combat-situation to justify oneself, . Besides all good people sometimes commits evil acts, often with good reason. They just tend to balance their evil with other acts of good.

I have almost no books at all. Are the rules restricting possession somehow, compared to the MM entry under Ghost?



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ehr, no. On the other hand, there's very little a ghost needs really. It doesn't eat, drink, or breath. It cannot feel cold or hot. It's got a slew of undead immunities and great mobility. I guess you would primarily need protective items, and some utility items. Healing might be concern, since good clerics won't be able to heal you without memorizing _inflict_ spells.




Protective items, items for teleportation and planes-walking, ability-enhancing items, ability-boosting tomes, anti-turning items, etc.

Oh, and I've got healing covered with Draining Touch. 



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Hmmm... why would you assume he'd be possessing them to carry it? Couldn't he simply persuade them to carry it of their own free will? It's not like he'd be asking them to carry something huge and unwieldly.




I guess I have trust-issues 



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, no. :\ Charisma seems to be a dump stat for most warriors, excepting paladins, for whom Divine Might is a nifty feat. But that also requires an ability to turn undead.




That's ok, I've got a pretty nice set of feats anyway.

--

Btw, I've posted my character in the RG. Let me know if there's some inaccuracies.


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 16, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ehr, Sepenteye, I currently have a bit of an issue with how you've distributed your character's ability points. If your elven rogue character was still alive, he'd have an Con score of... 6? Don't you think that's rather low!?
> 
> As I've said before, please don't make Con a dump stat just because you've adopted the ghost template. He may be dead now, but he was alive once-- please give him a reasonable Con score. An 7th level rogue with 13 hit points is _not_ plausible.




Ok, I forgot about that. is a 10 high enough after modification? That's the same as his Wis, and as expensive as his Int.
After re-counting the points I'll even make it 11 (13 -2) .


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I suppose one could provoke a combat-situation to justify oneself, . Besides all good people sometimes commits evil acts, often with good reason. They just tend to balance their evil with other acts of good.



Oh, I'm not saying you can't possess people ever; just that it would evil to usurp their lives. And no one's absolutely good or absolutely evil. Well, no one mortal anyway.... 




> I have almost no books at all. Are the rules restricting possession somehow, compared to the MM entry under Ghost?



No, they just expand on it somewhat. It's about the same stuff as under the _magic jar_ spell, but with some additional text on what affects the ghost and what affects the body its possessing, plus some clarifications. On a side note, be aware that it is a standard action to leave a body (does not provoke an AoO)-- the ghost appears in any square within 5 feet of the host of the ghost's choosing.

It's no big deal. It's more important that I have the books than you anyhow.




> Ok, I forgot about that. is a 10 high enough after modification? That's the same as his Wis, and as expensive as his Int.
> After re-counting the points I'll even make it 11 (13 -2).



That looks better.  I'll go over your character more closely later.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 16, 2004)

It's now later. 

Okay, here are my comment's for Serpenteye's ghost character:
--Your Atk bonus should be +12 (5 base + 6 Dex + 1 weapon focus). His Full Atk should therefore be +10/+10.
--Even though incorporeal creatures always move silently, you will probably want an entry for that skill anyway because if you wind up possessing a body, for example, you would no longer be incorporeal and then the modifier will matter. Though if you have no ranks, I guess it will just be the host's Dex mod.
--Which plane was the elf from, originally?

Wow... that was short.


----------



## Ferrix (Sep 17, 2004)

Okay... I've a couple different ideas for my character (sorry I'm really slow, very busy with work and now that's over and no internet at home).

1) Human Monk 2/Barbarian 5/Frenzied Berserker 5 (a character who focuses on overwhelming unarmed combat, the berserker aspect is more mitigated due to a high wisdom and good will saves from the monk)

2) Halfling Fighter 8/Cavalier 4 (a hardened and rough halfling originally from faerun, he's always been a bit gruff and has developed a reputation as a fierce but often underestimated warrior) (wish I could find a better mounted melee class for a halfling dog rider, outrider is more ranged focus)

3) An old human fighter (although I don't know how well this would work due to the lack of feats focusing on the mental aspects of the fighter), relies more on cunning and wisdom than brute force

4) Bladedancer, crouching tiger hidden dragon type ;-)

-Any suggestions?


----------



## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Np. But be aware that it won't work if the _greater dispel magic_ is an area effect, nor will it work if your opponent simply casts _dispel magic_ at you.




Yep, of course. 



> Plus it won't work on your holy greatsword. OTOH, it's handy if you need to hit something that has DR with a different AL component such as Law or Chaos. But that's pretty rare.




Yep, I mostly wanted it to make the sword good-aligned (or maybe chaos-aligned), and since that is already covered or doesn't even work... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Okay... I've a couple different ideas for my character (sorry I'm really slow, very busy with work and now that's over and no internet at home).




I was already wondering... 



> 2) Halfling Fighter 8/Cavalier 4 (a hardened and rough halfling originally from faerun, he's always been a bit gruff and has developed a reputation as a fierce but often underestimated warrior) (wish I could find a better mounted melee class for a halfling dog rider, outrider is more ranged focus)




Missing Donner? 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

About the cooperative item crafting... I somehow doubt, that someone else can help with the caster level there, at least that doesn't make much sense to me. 

And Serpenteye's magic item list must be the shortest I have ever seen at this level! 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## deadestdai (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ugh... that's highly unpleasant (the re-format, not Flaust's update). I hope you had all your files backed-up...




Most, yes - luckily. 

Am on a pal's system until I can drum up an XP disc to use. Should be sorted by late tonight or tomorrow after work. (Again....)

Sorry about all this Sephiroph. *le sigh*


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 17, 2004)

Just for giggles, if Serpenteye's character had a Song Ghost cohort, perhaps the cohort would be open to some friendly possession when combat becomes immenent, particularly if the cohort isn't much of a combatant himself?  

[I'm just throwing out suggestions, not trying to beat a dead horse.  ]


----------



## Citizen Mane (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Okay, Kajamba Lion, here's my comments for Vladimir Kronenheim:
> 
> --AC is correct but your Dex modifier note isn't
> --Reflex save should be +7 (3 base + 2 Dex + 2 grace = 7), +9 with the cloak
> ...




I'll fix this stuff tomorrow afternoon -- I've been working since 7 AM today and have to work again tomorrow morning at 7 AM until about 1:15 PM, although I'm thankfully off from my other job this weekend.  In any case, thanks to you and Thanee for being patient and helpful.    I appreciate it.

Best,
Nick


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 17, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> 1) Human Monk 2/Barbarian 5/Frenzied Berserker 5 (a character who focuses on overwhelming unarmed combat, the berserker aspect is more mitigated due to a high wisdom and good will saves from the monk)



Ehr, I certainly hope so for your fellow party members' sake. 




> 2) Halfling Fighter 8/Cavalier 4 (a hardened and rough halfling originally from faerun, he's always been a bit gruff and has developed a reputation as a fierce but often underestimated warrior) (wish I could find a better mounted melee class for a halfling dog rider, outrider is more ranged focus)



Hmmm... I think a halfling outrider would work better if you had paladin or ranger levels instead since you don't get the benefit of the animal leveling up with your character otherwise.




> 3) An old human fighter (although I don't know how well this would work due to the lack of feats focusing on the mental aspects of the fighter), relies more on cunning and wisdom than brute force



Well, I guess that could be represent by taking the Combat Expertise feat and taking stuff like Improved Disarm or Improved Trip. Though you're right, there's not a whole lotta feats there.




> 4) Bladedancer, crouching tiger hidden dragon type ;-)



Any PrCs in mind for this one? Dervish, maybe?


Hmmm... well, in any case, it looks like you're pretty set on playing a warrior type of some sort.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 17, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> About the cooperative item crafting... I somehow doubt, that someone else can help with the caster level there, at least that doesn't make much sense to me.



I guess you're right. 

Well, Kajamba Lion, I guess you could either just drop it to a simple +2 (or +2 with some special ability tacked on) or pay someone to take it up to a +3. :\




			
				deadestdai said:
			
		

> Sorry about all this Sephiroph. *le sigh*



Hey, no problem. I understand. 




			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Just for giggles, if Serpenteye's character had a Song Ghost cohort, perhaps the cohort would be open to some friendly possession when combat becomes immenent, particularly if the cohort isn't much of a combatant himself?



Hey Isida, could Phaeder convince his ghost to do this if he finds himself in imminent combat!? j/k!  




			
				Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> I'll fix this stuff tomorrow afternoon -- I've been working since 7 AM today and have to work again tomorrow morning at 7 AM until about 1:15 PM, although I'm thankfully off from my other job this weekend.  In any case, thanks to you and Thanee for being patient and helpful.    I appreciate it.



No worries. And you're welcome!


----------



## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Well, Kajamba Lion, I guess you could either just drop it to a simple +2 (or +2 with some special ability tacked on) or pay someone to take it up to a +3. :\




Ah, I just see, that I made one little mistake in my explanation above. The caster level must be 3x the item's enhancement bonus (not total weapon bonus, that is "all the pluses added together")! However, you also must meet the individual caster level requirement for the special ability, for _Ghost Touch_ this is 9th, for example, so a 6th level caster can make a _+2_ weapon, but not yet a _+1 Ghost Touch_ weapon.

Sorry for the confusion, I have altered the post (found HERE) to adjust for this change, which I wasn't aware of. 

Anyways, Practiced Spellcaster, just to point to it again , would resolve that "problem" pretty much by raising caster level to 11th, besides being a rather handy all around "power-up" for the spellcasting.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

Hey, with the above you can make it _+2 Speed_ by now (7th), or even _+2 Holy Speed_, but *not* _+1 Ghost Touch_ or _+1 Frost_ or _+1 Keen_. Strange rules those are! 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Okay, here are my comment's for Serpenteye's ghost character:
> --Your Atk bonus should be +12 (5 base + 6 Dex + 1 weapon focus). His Full Atk should therefore be +10/+10.




'k



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> --Which plane was the elf from, originally?




Originally Albeir Toril (FR) some half-millennium ago. Since then he's been all over the place.

--


			
				Ferrix said:
			
		

> Okay... I've a couple different ideas for my character (sorry I'm really slow, very busy with work and now that's over and no internet at home).
> 
> 1) Human Monk 2/Barbarian 5/Frenzied Berserker 5 (a character who focuses on overwhelming unarmed combat, the berserker aspect is more mitigated due to a high wisdom and good will saves from the monk)




I'd love to see a Frenzied Berserker in action. Don't worry too much about losing control, if you start attacking your allies my Ghost can pretty easily move into your mind and take temporary control. 

--


			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> And Serpenteye's magic item list must be the shortest I have ever seen at this level!
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




That's all I could afford    . Charisma and Dexterity are so very important to my character, everything that he can do in a battle depends on those two abilities.

--


			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Just for giggles, if Serpenteye's character had a Song Ghost cohort, perhaps the cohort would be open to some friendly possession when combat becomes immenent, particularly if the cohort isn't much of a combatant himself?
> 
> [I'm just throwing out suggestions, not trying to beat a dead horse.  ]




I'd rather possess one of our enemies, turning their ranks into disarray and forcing them to waste their attacks on one of their friends. It's even better than killing the enemy outright, and if I want to I can take an action to do that too.

I think that horse just died


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 17, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Hey, with the above you can make it _+2 Speed_ by now (7th), or even _+2 Holy Speed_, but *not* _+1 Ghost Touch_ or _+1 Frost_ or _+1 Keen_. Strange rules those are!



Actually, I don't think he could make a holy weapon (at least not by himself). That requires a _holy smite_ spell in addition to the minimum caster level, and that's a cleric spell, which Vlad cannot cast.


----------



## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

Well, he could use scrolls (ok, maybe not without UMD  , or pay someone to cast the spell a few times, but that's not really "alone")... 



> Holy Smite
> Evocation [Good]
> Level: Good 4




Wow, not even your average cleric with the item creation feat will be able to do this!

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 17, 2004)

Hmmm... I have a question for people. How would a ghost's corrupting touch attack resolved with damage reduction? I tend to see it as a natural weapon, since well, it's what ghosts fight with, both on the Material Plane and on the Ethereal (where they get Str bonuses, indicating it's a physical attack of sorts on their home plane), and therefore would not bypass DR like any other natural weapon. Plus, I think that it if could bypass DR of any kind, it would be too powerful of an ability.


----------



## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

> *Damage Reduction (Ex or Su):* A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.






> _Corrupting Touch (Su):_ A ghost that hits a living target with its incorporeal touch attack deals 1d6 points of damage. Against ethereal opponents, it adds its Strength modifier to attack and damage rolls. Against nonethereal opponents, it adds its Dexterity modifier to attack rolls only.




Don't really see the problem. 1d6 damage per hit isn't exactly broken. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 17, 2004)

True. I guess that clears that up. Thanks! 

Though from reading the ghost template again, I guess there's no way for a ghost to ever hurt a zombie (or any other undead or construct, for that matter) except maybe through _telekinesis_. Interesting...


----------



## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

There's always a way... well, almost. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 17, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Don't really see the problem. 1d6 damage per hit isn't exactly broken.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Thanks Thanee 




			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> True. I guess that clears that up. Thanks!
> 
> Though from reading the ghost template again, I guess there's no way for a ghost to ever hurt a zombie (or any other undead or construct, for that matter) except maybe through _telekinesis_. Interesting...




Except for taking posession of it using Malevolence and having it pummel itself to death. Since it's not a spell and spell resistance and -immunities doesn't apply there's nothing stopping it from working on a construct and since it's a necromantic effect (like Magic Jar) it can be used on corporeal undead too.
He is pretty useless against incorporeal undead, though they can do little to hurt him themselves.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 17, 2004)

No... you can't use malevolence against constructs. They're immune to all necromantic effects, not just spells or spell-like abilities.

I guess you could possess intelligent undead since the _magic jar_ spell description says they have spirits, but unintelligent undead don't.


----------



## Ferrix (Sep 17, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> I was already wondering...
> 
> Missing Donner?
> 
> ...




Yeah


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth, not to push, but did you have a starting date in mind?


----------



## Thanee (Sep 17, 2004)

I recall he said something about monday. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Ferrix (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Hmmm... I think a halfling outrider would work better if you had paladin or ranger levels instead since you don't get the benefit of the animal leveling up with your character otherwise.




The halfling outrider wouldn't really fit at all with the character idea, he's not a ranged fighter at all, he actually has a grudge against them (since they never seem to work for him), picture a gruff knightly figure as a halfling.  I'd be taking leadership to get a cohort for a mount (blink dog probably).  If you want an idea of what the character would look like at lower levels you can see the original character here.  I wanted to eventually work out a prestige class that would fit the grizzled dog rider type that he was emulating, as well as the pack of the dogs that he'd travel with but it never got to that point.



> Well, I guess that could be represent by taking the Combat Expertise feat and taking stuff like Improved Disarm or Improved Trip. Though you're right, there's not a whole lotta feats there.




Prolly ditch this one since it'd be a pretty poor option.  Someday I'll make a PrC to fit the clever old warrior, or maybe just some feats that require the person to be either middle-aged or old or older to take.  Perhaps I could work something up and submit it to you to see if I could pull it off?



> Any PrCs in mind for this one? Dervish, maybe?




Bladedancer from OA if possible.



> Hmmm... well, in any case, it looks like you're pretty set on playing a warrior type of some sort.




I've been itching to play a psion but since that's not an option here, I don't entirely feel like playing an arcane caster since they are either really limited choice wise (sorcerer) or bound to material expense for their spells (wizard) and I've already got a plethora of divine casters going, and I'd feel like I'd be overshadowed by the ghost rogue if I went rogue.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 17, 2004)

Ferrix, would you mind sending me your ideas for those two prestige classes?  I should have time this weekend to play with them, and I like making PrCs.  

barrow at iastate dot edu


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## Serpenteye (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> No... you can't use malevolence against constructs. They're immune to all necromantic effects, not just spells or spell-like abilities.




Hmm, so I guess they are his major weakness then, since they are immune to sneak-attacks too. He can always run away, though, so they would be worse for the less mobile members of the party.


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## Ferrix (Sep 17, 2004)

E-mail away   Glad you are interested Isida.  It'll be neat to see what we each come up with on our own.


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 17, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Okay, Kajamba Lion, here's my comments for Vladimir Kronenheim:
> 
> --AC is correct but your Dex modifier note isn't
> --Reflex save should be +7 (3 base + 2 Dex + 2 grace = 7), +9 with the cloak
> ...




I've finished my changes.  The above should all be fixed.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> --Price for your +3 spiked chain should be 9000 gp + 109 gp + 720 XP. You only to pay XP costs for the magical portion of the cost and the 109 gp is from me assuming you craft the weapon yourself with the Craft skill.
> --I added up the 2 scrolls of Mordenkainen's faithful hound (2,250 gp), 2 scrolls of summon monster V (2,250 gp), and scroll of plane shift (2,275 gp) and I'm getting 6,775 gp, not 7,775 gp.
> --I added up all the prices for Vlad's magical gear (using the numbers above) and the cost to scribe his spells and I'm coming up with 88,659 gp which is over his limit. (I have his magical gear total at 83,559 gp and his spells cost at 5100 gp.)
> --Technically speaking, Vlad's XP should be 66,880 XP. He suffers a -20% XP penalty ever since he hit 12th level which gave him a starting XP of 67,600. Then subtract 720 XP for item creation.




1.  Dropped the _+3 spiked chain_ down to _+1 spiked chain, evil outsider bane_, which is pretty much what I was aiming for with the _+2 holy ghost touch spiked chain_.  This should cost me 4109 gp and 320 xp.  I've also added a _+1 ghost touch rapier_, which should cost me the same as the spiked chain.  Vlad crafted both base weapons, hence the 109 gp on top of the 4000 gp for each.  Also, I switched out _cause fear_ with _summon monster I_ in Vlad's spellbook and removed the _plane shift_ scroll, as he would need to buy one to make the rapier.

2.  Removed one scroll of _Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound_, which should put me under my starting gold by a wee bit.

3.  Adjusted the XP.

Let me know if I've goofed anything here, but I think it's all good.  

best,
Nick


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 18, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Sephiroth, not to push, but did you have a starting date in mind?





			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> I recall he said something about monday.



Tuesday, actually. I'm going to be really busy on Monday so I doubt I'll be able to get to it until late Monday night or Tuesday morning.

Does everyone think they can get their character finished up by then?


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## Ashy (Sep 18, 2004)

Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm back (not that it matters much, as I am only an alternate...    ...anywho....)  Just FYI.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 18, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> The halfling outrider wouldn't really fit at all with the character idea, he's not a ranged fighter at all, he actually has a grudge against them (since they never seem to work for him), picture a gruff knightly figure as a halfling.  I'd be taking leadership to get a cohort for a mount (blink dog probably).  If you want an idea of what the character would look like at lower levels you can see the original character here.  I wanted to eventually work out a prestige class that would fit the grizzled dog rider type that he was emulating, as well as the pack of the dogs that he'd travel with but it never got to that point.



Arg, I know I've seen something like a Hunt Master or Hound Master PrC in one of my books, but I'll be damned if I can remember which one (I have so many.... oh, the humanity!). I'll try looking, but don't hold your breath. :\ On the bright side, I would certainly allow a higher-level version of Donner into the party, no problems. The only thing I'm worried about are his dogs... if he has a pack of normal dogs, they'd probably get killed.  You guys are going to be heading to some pretty unpleasant places.




> Prolly ditch this one since it'd be a pretty poor option.  Someday I'll make a PrC to fit the clever old warrior, or maybe just some feats that require the person to be either middle-aged or old or older to take.  Perhaps I could work something up and submit it to you to see if I could pull it off?



As interesting as the idea is, I think I would prefer to deal with published PrCs for now. No diss on your PrC-making abilities Ferrix (or Isida-- in fact, a number of your home-brewed PrCs are very cool). Sorry. :\ But you're welcome to work it up anyway and I'd been keen on seeing what you come up with. 




> Bladedancer from OA if possible.



Oh yeah! That PrC did have Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon written all over it, at least as far as movement was concerned.  Okay, this is a class I would allow in if you wished to take it.




> I've been itching to play a psion but since that's not an option here, I don't entirely feel like playing an arcane caster since they are either really limited choice wise (sorcerer) or bound to material expense for their spells (wizard) and I've already got a plethora of divine casters going, and I'd feel like I'd be overshadowed by the ghost rogue if I went rogue.



I think we have two rogues in the party, actually.... Serpenteye's ghostly one and deadestdai's barmy one.  But yeah, that arena's kinda crowded.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 18, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Hmm, so I guess they are his major weakness then, since they are immune to sneak-attacks too. He can always run away, though, so they would be worse for the less mobile members of the party.



What was the saying? I don't have to run the fastest... I just have to run faster than _you_.


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## deadestdai (Sep 18, 2004)

I'm re-working Flaust right now.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 18, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> I've finished my changes.  The above should all be fixed.



--I think your Reflex save is still off-- it should be +9 since your Dex mod is +2 (with the gloves)
--Okay, your skills points are now fine but I should note that since you dropped both your Knowledge: religion and Knowledge: planar to 4 skills ranks, you no longer get the +2 synergy bonuses to turning or to planar Survival check.




> 1.  Dropped the _+3 spiked chain_ down to _+1 spiked chain, evil outsider bane_, which is pretty much what I was aiming for with the _+2 holy ghost touch spiked chain_.  This should cost me 4109 gp and 320 xp.  I've also added a _+1 ghost touch rapier_, which should cost me the same as the spiked chain. Vlad crafted both base weapons, hence the 109 gp on top of the 4000 gp for each.  Also, I switched out _cause fear_ with _summon monster I_ in Vlad's spellbook and removed the _plane shift_ scroll, as he would need to buy one to make the rapier.



No problems here. 




> 2.  Removed one scroll of _Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound_, which should put me under my starting gold by a wee bit.



Actually, by my calculations.... (I hope you're not dreading that phrase now by now ) your magical gear plus spells equal 86,643 gp. Even after adding in any mundane gear, you would have a little over 1,200 gp left.  




> 3.  Adjusted the XP.



Ehr, I think your XP should be 66,960. (68,000 - 400 for 20% penalty - 640 for item creation.)  But hey, it's higher than what you had down, so that's good, right?

How are familiar and paladin mount creation going?


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 18, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> --I think your Reflex save is still off-- it should be +9 since your Dex mod is +2 (with the gloves)
> --Okay, your skills points are now fine but I should note that since you dropped both your Knowledge: religion and Knowledge: planar to 4 skills ranks, you no longer get the +2 synergy bonuses to turning or to planar Survival check.




Crap.  Missed those two.  Will fix right now.    



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Actually, by my calculations.... (I hope you're not dreading that phrase now by now ) your magical gear plus spells equal 86,643 gp. Even after adding in any mundane gear, you would have a little over 1,200 gp left.




I figured as much, but I wasn't going to sweat the extra gold.  I'll dig around for some useful things. 



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ehr, I think your XP should be 66,960. (68,000 - 400 for 20% penalty - 640 for item creation.)  But hey, it's higher than what you had down, so that's good, right?




This is what I get for doing math in my head.  Silly English major.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> How are familiar and paladin mount creation going?




Good.  I just need to post the stats for the earth mephit (still trying to think of a name).  I wasn't intending on him having a mount.  I know that means that I've got an ability I'm not using, but it just doesn't fit in all that well with the concept, so...

Best,
Nick


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## deadestdai (Sep 18, 2004)

Okay - my cooky gal is updated and her appearance is too. (Background is coming soon.) Shucked the paragon thingy - was tooo much of a hassle, took 3 levels of fighter instead. 

Let me know what I've messed up...... *grin*


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 18, 2004)

Fixed skills, reflex save, and XP.  Added a _pearl of power, level 1_ to my equipment list.  Posted Hrothgeat the Earth Mephit.  Background tomorrow morning (or late tonight).  

Nick


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## Thanee (Sep 18, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Does everyone think they can get their character finished up by then?




Definitely. I am almost finished, just putting in some details and such in the background, before I edit it in.

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 18, 2004)

deadestdai said:
			
		

> Let me know what I've messed up...... *grin*




Str: 10 (0) [2pts]
Dex: 20 (+5) [10pts, +2 racial, +2 Paragon lvl3]
Con: 12 (+1) [3pts, +1@4th]
Int: 16 (+3) [6pts, +2 racial]
Wis: 12 (+1) [3pts, +1@8th]
Cha: 13 (+1) [8pts, -2 racial]

I guess those Paragon levels (+2 Dex) won't figure in anymore after you dropped them. But the _gloves of dexterity_ provide that bonus, so number is correct, only the bonus labeled wrong.

And you know, that you could just put 6 pts into Cha (14-2=12) and use the level up from 4th to raise it to 13, then use the 2 pts you saved there to add to Con and Wis for 4 pts each (12, as you have it now) and have the 8th level attribute point still to spend (on Cha or Dex probably), right? 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 18, 2004)

Alright, deadestdai, here are my comments for Flaust:

--XP should be 85,000 (88,000 - 3,000) after the LA buy-off at 3rd level.
--You should change the "+2 Paragon lvl3" under her Dex stat entry to something like "+2 gloves". That caused me some confusion initially (I finally realized that 20 was indeed the correct Dex score).
--Her hitpoints should be 62. (I'm assuming you took rogue at 1st, fighter at 2nd, the order of the rest doesn't matter.) 10+6+5+5+3+3+3+3+3+5+5+11=62
--You also forgot to take out her tiefling paragon bonuses for her saves, so all of them should drop by 2. (Fort +6, Ref +14, Will +4)
--BAB should be +9/+4 (3 fighter + 4 rogue + 2 chaotician), not +10/+5. Oddly enough, her ranged attack with Thingie is correct. Her damage with it, however, should be 1d6+1, not 1d6+3, unless there are some bonuses in there I don't know about/can't find.
--Well, you calculated the number of skills points she _should_ have, correctly.  However, when I add up the number of ranks, it's something like 151 total (unless my math is really bad)  and that's _not_ counting the Search skill that was listed twice. Uh, you're going to need to do some extensive reworking of her skills list. 
--And finally, the price you have listed for celestial armor is wrong: it should be 22,400 gp. The 12,550 gp value you have listed is the cost to create it. :\ This, unfortunately, throw off your wealth since it suddenly catapults the total value of your gear to something over 96,000 gp.  If you want to keep the armor, you're going to have to ditch over 8,000 gp worth of gear.

Ehr, that should be it, I think. You might want to note somewhere that her home place is the Outlands (Sigil).


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 18, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> I wasn't intending on him having a mount.  I know that means that I've got an ability I'm not using, but it just doesn't fit in all that well with the concept, so...



Well, the way 3.5e paladin mounts work, they don't stay with you all the time anyway. You can call them once a day and it'll stay for 2 hours/paladin level. We can just say Vlad rarely calls his horse, if ever (especially if he spends a lot of time in Sigil). But the option to do so remains.


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## Thanee (Sep 18, 2004)

Heh. Just noticed, that Favored Soul Spells Known are kinda funny... one level they get nothing at all, and on the next they get like six new spells then... and that all the time! 

BTW, I made a small change to my skill list.

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 18, 2004)

Ferrix, here's my crack at the halfling dog rider PrC.  I hope you like it.  

Halfling Hound Rider


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## deadestdai (Sep 18, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Str: 10 (0) [2pts]
> Dex: 20 (+5) [10pts, +2 racial, +2 Paragon lvl3]
> Con: 12 (+1) [3pts, +1@4th]
> Int: 16 (+3) [6pts, +2 racial]
> ...




With a wife nagging in yer left ear to get off the PC a chap tends to miss these kind of handy things. Thanks Thanee - did as you advised and it works out just nicely!


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## deadestdai (Sep 18, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Alright, deadestdai, here are my comments for Flaust:
> 
> --XP should be 85,000 (88,000 - 3,000) after the LA buy-off at 3rd level
> --You should change the "+2 Paragon lvl3" under her Dex stat entry to something like "+2 gloves". That caused me some confusion initially (I finally realized that 20 was indeed the correct Dex score).
> ...




Thanks for pointing these out - they are changed accordingly.



> --You also forgot to take out her tiefling paragon bonuses for her saves, so all of them should drop by 2. (Fort +6, Ref +14, Will +4)




Hrm.... PlanarHB, Savage Species and UA all confused me. Planar doesn't give the bonuses as standard, Savage Species does (Tables in the back of the book) and UA offers them as a whole new deal that involves losing level to get them. But I changed them as requested.



> --Well, you calculated the number of skills points she _should_ have, correctly.  However, when I add up the number of ranks, it's something like 151 total (unless my math is really bad)  and that's _not_ counting the Search skill that was listed twice. Uh, you're going to need to do some extensive reworking of her skills list.




I don't know what the hell I was doing here. All those years of not doing crack are finally showing through. 128 skill points are flung amongst my skills now, also realised that Chaotician makes Knowledge skills class skills, so was pleasantly surprised there too.



> --And finally, the price you have listed for celestial armor is wrong: it should be 22,400 gp. The 12,550 gp value you have listed is the cost to create it. :\ This, unfortunately, throw off your wealth since it suddenly catapults the total value of your gear to something over 96,000 gp.  If you want to keep the armor, you're going to have to ditch over 8,000 gp worth of gear.




That's my poor eyesight and lack of paying attention to detail..... Got rid of the armour and signed up for a +3 Mithral Chain Shirt and stuck a +1 on her buckler instead - much cheaper, though she will miss her chance to fly! 



> Ehr, that should be it, I think. You might want to note somewhere that her home place is the Outlands (Sigil).




Good point. Now I can only hope that Sigil will play some sort of significant part in the adventure!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 18, 2004)

deadestdai said:
			
		

> Hrm.... PlanarHB, Savage Species and UA all confused me. Planar doesn't give the bonuses as standard, Savage Species does (Tables in the back of the book) and UA offers them as a whole new deal that involves losing level to get them. But I changed them as requested.



I follow Planar HB rules, rather than Savage Species since it's 3.5. The paragon levels in UA kinda take after Monte Cook's AU, I think.




> I don't know what the hell I was doing here. All those years of not doing crack are finally showing through. 128 skill points are flung amongst my skills now, also realised that Chaotician makes Knowledge skills class skills, so was pleasantly surprised there too.



Okay, all your ranks look good now.  Here's some more good news, though it will require some more work: mithral chain has no Armor Check penalty so Flaust would not suffer the -1 AC penalty you have listed (mithral armor decreases armor check up by up to -3) for those skills. Also, she would gain a +2 synergy bonus to the following skills: Balance, Tumble, Jump, and Sleight of Hand so all 4 of those skills go up by +2 as well. 




> That's my poor eyesight and lack of paying attention to detail..... Got rid of the armour and signed up for a +3 Mithral Chain Shirt and stuck a +1 on her buckler instead - much cheaper, though she will miss her chance to fly!



A +3 mithral chain shirt costs 10,100 gp (9000 gp for enchancement + 1000 for mithral + 100 gp for chain shirt-- the masterwork component is included in the cost of the mithral), not 11,250 gp so you actually have an additional 1,150 gp to play with.


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## deadestdai (Sep 19, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Okay, all your ranks look good now.  Here's some more good news, though it will require some more work: mithral chain has no Armor Check penalty so Flaust would not suffer the -1 AC penalty you have listed (mithral armor decreases armor check up by up to -3) for those skills. Also, she would gain a +2 synergy bonus to the following skills: Balance, Tumble, Jump, and Sleight of Hand so all 4 of those skills go up by +2 as well.




All changes happily made! 



> A +3 mithral chain shirt costs 10,100 gp (9000 gp for enchancement + 1000 for mithral + 100 gp for chain shirt-- the masterwork component is included in the cost of the mithral), not 11,250 gp so you actually have an additional 1,150 gp to play with.




Again, was more than happy to spend those extra bucks!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 19, 2004)

Serpenteye, do you have a name and alignment for your ghost rogue?

Ferrix, how's character creation going?

Everyone, after some consideration on how I want to start the adventure and on party dynamics, I've decided that you will all know each other and have been adventuring together for some time, though not necessarily from the very beginning, and not necessarily always with the same people. You would be part of a larger group of friends and comrades-in-arms that work with each other, half of whom are off doing various things on their own at any one time. This allows the party to trust each other to watch their backs and care about each other, while giving me fluidity to insert new characters or whatever in the course of the adventure if need be. Hopefully, if you already have a background done, this won't interfere too much with it. I've got your most recent adventure covered (the one prior to this), so your histories should end before that.


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 19, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Serpenteye, do you have a name and alignment for your ghost rogue?




I'll work on that, personality, appearance and background tomorrow.


----------



## Ferrix (Sep 19, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ferrix, how's character creation going?




creation is going alright, sort of rough without internet at home for the moment (can't wait till wednesday)...

it'll probably end up being Donner, would something akin to Isida's halfling hound rider PrC be okay?  If not I'll probably end up with a gnome illusionist, would the UA alternatives and some of the racial substitutions from Races of Stone be okay if I made this guy?


----------



## Thanee (Sep 19, 2004)

That's fine with me.

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 20, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> it'll probably end up being Donner, would something akin to Isida's halfling hound rider PrC be okay?  If not I'll probably end up with a gnome illusionist, would the UA alternatives and some of the racial substitutions from Races of Stone be okay if I made this guy?



The UA alternatives would be fine, but I don't have Races of Stone, so no racial substitutions from that.  And if you want to use Isida's Halfling Hound Rider for Donner, go ahead, since I've no luck at all in locating that darn Hunt Master / Hound Master PrC.


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## deadestdai (Sep 20, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Serpenteye, do you have a name and alignment for your ghost rogue?
> 
> Ferrix, how's character creation going?
> 
> Everyone, after some consideration on how I want to start the adventure and on party dynamics, I've decided that you will all know each other and have been adventuring together for some time, though not necessarily from the very beginning, and not necessarily always with the same people. You would be part of a larger group of friends and comrades-in-arms that work with each other, half of whom are off doing various things on their own at any one time. This allows the party to trust each other to watch their backs and care about each other, while giving me fluidity to insert new characters or whatever in the course of the adventure if need be. Hopefully, if you already have a background done, this won't interfere too much with it. I've got your most recent adventure covered (the one prior to this), so your histories should end before that.




Sounds good. I'll have Flaust's background up tonight or tomorrow after work (5.30pmPST). Either way, don't wait on me, I'll write it all so it won't cause any problems with the group.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 20, 2004)

I updated the Hound Master again, incorporating Ferrix's suggestions.


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 20, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Everyone, after some consideration on how I want to start the adventure and on party dynamics, I've decided that you will all know each other and have been adventuring together for some time, though not necessarily from the very beginning, and not necessarily always with the same people. You would be part of a larger group of friends and comrades-in-arms that work with each other, half of whom are off doing various things on their own at any one time. This allows the party to trust each other to watch their backs and care about each other, while giving me fluidity to insert new characters or whatever in the course of the adventure if need be. Hopefully, if you already have a background done, this won't interfere too much with it. I've got your most recent adventure covered (the one prior to this), so your histories should end before that.




Works for me, too.  I will have a finished background up sometime tomorrow during the day, or, at the latest, Tuesday AM.  

Nick


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 20, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I updated the Hound Master again, incorporating Ferrix's suggestions.



I took a look at this PrC a few days ago, and thought it fairly reasonable (with one hound companion every 2 levels, not every level) but I took a look at the 2nd version today after Isida posted that she updated it and whoa! it's gotten a lot buffer. 

I don't have an issue with the bonded hound being +4 hound master level, though I do fret a little at the buffness of each of the hound companions at hound master = druid level. I understand your argument about how lower HD creatures don't present a whole lot of threat to powerful creatures at higher levels, Ferrix, but they are certainly still quite a bit more useful than mere normal riding dogs! If nothing else, they can occupy and hurt minions that would otherwise be harassing the Hound Master or the party. However, since it a core concept to the Hound Master, and I'm only borderline ambivalent about it, I think we can just leave it the way it is.

OTOH, I do think that Isida should have taken out an ability when she switched Hound's Bound for Full Mounted Attack (which IMO is stronger the former, since you don't even have to charge to get the benefits of a full-attack action) and added Baying of the Pack. The Hound Master already gets the benefit of a special mount, plus up to 5 companions, that a whole lot of special abilities on top seems a little... excessive.

In this case, could I request that the Hound Master lose the Pin and Tear ability (which doesn't seem to fit as well with the rest of the theme), and change the Baying of the Hounds to the equivalent of a _fear_ spell (30 ft. cone, 14 + Cha mod), at least for the purposes of this campaign?

Also, a question on the One Pack, One Mind ability. It says that the Hound Master has to be within 10 feet of his bonded mount or a pack member for this to function. Does that mean it only works for the the Hound Master and the dogs he is near? Or does it include all this other dogs, no matter how far away? Why not change it to something more rules-friendly, like saying all dogs within a certain radius (20 feet maybe?) of the Hound Master are not flanked unless they all are (more in line with the Hive Mind ability, which I assume this is based off of)? Any dog outside that radius can be flanked as usual (as can the Hound Master if none of his dogs are closeby).


----------



## Serpenteye (Sep 20, 2004)

My character is done, I think. Please let me know if there's anything that doesn't seem correct.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 20, 2004)

I'm fine with dropping the Full Mounted Attack, and I also just updated the prereqs as well to make them more challenging.  Your suggestions for clarifying the One Pack, One Mind, sound pretty good as well.  The modifications for the Baying of the Pack sound good too.  Pin and Tear was a specific request; think of the mental image of the Hound Rider using his spear to pin an enemy to the ground so that his pack could devour him.


----------



## Ferrix (Sep 20, 2004)

Cool, will have character info up tomorrow probably since I'll ahve to copy Isida's version to disk then bring it home.  Any revisions to the class can always be changed in my character once we get moving.


----------



## Thanee (Sep 20, 2004)

Background is up, now. Left the ending open, so there's enough room to have met and adventured with the others.

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 21, 2004)

Ok, I added it a little very general history between Blade and the others.  She basically thinks the rest of you are a bunch of crazy people mostly lacking in a moral compass, but you're not all bad.  

I'm the only lawful person in the group...


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 21, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> My character is done, I think. Please let me know if there's anything that doesn't seem correct.



Ehr, nope. Not much that I can see. Just two clarifications: 1) Kiaros' home plane would still be Toril, not the Outlands. That's where he's buried (and will reform if destroyed). But if he's banished, he'll get sent to Toril. And 2) he gets a 50% miss chance against any damage from corporeal sources (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects, and attacks made with ghost touch weapons). However, if the spell does no damage, it affects him normally (no miss chance), if it is of a type that can affect him, such as _halt undead_. You may already be aware of that, but I wanted to let you know in case you weren't.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 21, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I'm fine with dropping the Full Mounted Attack, and I also just updated the prereqs as well to make them more challenging.  Your suggestions for clarifying the One Pack, One Mind, sound pretty good as well.  The modifications for the Baying of the Pack sound good too.  Pin and Tear was a specific request; think of the mental image of the Hound Rider using his spear to pin an enemy to the ground so that his pack could devour him.



Gah!! Which version of the Hound Master are we using?  I see the changes in the prereqs for Hound Master II, but not the mods you mentioned above (or it that for this campaign only and hence not changed in the other versions)? Though Ferrix is right, we can fiddle with the particulars later since a number of them are higher-level abilities that Donner wouldn't have anyhow at this point.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 21, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok, I added it a little very general history between Blade and the others.  She basically thinks the rest of you are a bunch of crazy people mostly lacking in a moral compass, but you're not all bad.
> 
> I'm the only lawful person in the group...



Well, there's Vlad the paladin. He's LG... so you're not entirely surrounded by lunatics. 

I see everyone has their background and description up. W00t!  We will get started as soon as Ferrix is done with character creation (don't feel bad, Ferrix, we can wait).


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## Serpenteye (Sep 21, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Ehr, nope. Not much that I can see. Just two clarifications: 1) Kiaros' home plane would still be Toril, not the Outlands. That's where he's buried (and will reform if destroyed). But if he's banished, he'll get sent to Toril. And 2) he gets a 50% miss chance against any damage from corporeal sources (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects, and attacks made with ghost touch weapons). However, if the spell does no damage, it affects him normally (no miss chance), if it is of a type that can affect him, such as _halt undead_. You may already be aware of that, but I wanted to let you know in case you weren't.




Ok.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 22, 2004)

Yeah... sorry Sephiroth, I figured we could tinker with stuff on the fly for the Hound Master class.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 22, 2004)

I've got a question for everyone. In PS 2e, there were all sorts of interesting rules concerning magic that got tossed out in 3e. For example, there was the one where your cleric level decreased the further away you got away from your patron deity's home plane. There was another one where your magic weapons and armor decreased in bonuses the further away you got from the plane where it was forged. And finally, some spells and schools were enhanced or diminished or altered, depending on which plane you were.

I was thinking about leaving out the first two magic conditions (fluctuating clerical caster level and weapon/armor bonuses), but what do people say to bringing back the last one (spell keys and all)? For me, saying "nonlawful characters on Mechanus suffer a -2 penalty on all Charisma-, Wisdom-, and Intelligence-based checks" and "Normal Magic" just don't capture some of the flavor of the old setting....


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## Thanee (Sep 22, 2004)

Wouldn't have a problem with that, as long as it is remotely fair. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 22, 2004)

Oops-- kindly ignore this post.


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## deadestdai (Sep 22, 2004)

What if I can't ignore it? It could have been rather captivating afterall..... 

But ya - sounds good to me. Though, won't that kinda dampen our spellcasters and leave the rest of us non-spellcasting-types free of the affects? Or had you something else in mind?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 22, 2004)

I wouldn't mind too much.  hmm.. I would have to determine where everything was forged though...

Edit - All magical equipment now has a plane of origin!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 22, 2004)

double post


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 22, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Wouldn't have a problem with that, as long as it is remotely fair.



Well, if by fair, you mean that everyone is affected (natives and non-natives of the plane alike), then yes, it is fair. What spells are enhanced are enhanced both for you and for the enemy. What spells are diminished are likewise diminished both for you and your foes.




			
				deadestdai said:
			
		

> Though, won't that kinda dampen our spellcasters and leave the rest of us non-spellcasting-types free of the affects? Or had you something else in mind?



Mmmm... true. It can make life somewhat harder for spellcasters than non-spellcasting types. But that can be mitigated in part by knowing what spells/schools are going to be affected where and the use of spell keys (which lets a caster cast a spell on a particular plane without penalty). Part of the challenge in PS is knowing what you're getting into before jumping through that portal, after all. 




			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I wouldn't mind too much. hmm.. I would have to determine where everything was forged though...



I wasn't going to bother with the varying weapon/armor bonus (since that tends to hurt the party overall more than their enemies), but if people want to go with that as well, I guess we could.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 22, 2004)

Here's an example of what I'm talking about, so people have a better understanding of what I mean:

Since the group was just on Carceri (the last adventure), here would be the magical conditions for that plane:

Conjuration: A berk performing summonings on Carceri is likely to ge a nasty surprise. Though the summoning still brings the called creature to the caster, the creature isn't bound by the spell. Summoned creatures aren't specifically hostile to the caster (please note that the intelligent ones almost always will be), but the caster has to give 'em some show of good faith, offering a bribe to make them want to work for the caster. Otherwise, they turn on him and tear him to pieces.
Divination: Carceri is indeed the plane of treachery and back-stabbing; any divination spell requires the sacrifice of a comrade. The spell takes shape in the spreading pool of the poor sod's blood. It's for this reason that diviners are universally hated on Carceri-- and bonds of treacherous friendship form between those who practice the forbidden art.
Necromancy: Healing spells function at half their normal power on Carceri; nothing about the plane is conducive to life-giving powers. Spells that create undead or cause damage, on the other hand, are much more efficacious. Raised undead are automatically free-willed, and may well choose to attack the caster, while damage-causing spells grant a bonus of +1 per level of the caster to the damage caused.
Transmutation: Spells of this achool always turn to the most evil result possible. If the spell can't actually produce evil, it manifests itself in a hostile way; flames writhe into tortured faces, while sigils and symbols twist around into horribly screaming faces.

Spell keys allow a spellcaster to bypass some of the above restrictions. They enable casters to cast spells so they function normally on planes where such magic is altered or even completely ineffective. Some keys prove more useful than others to a spellslinger. General keys allow a cutter to effectively cast any spell from a group of spells (such as all Transmutation spells), while specific spell keys only affect one particular spell (such as the _invisibility_ spell on Arcadia). Regardless, spell keys are particular to the plane they're intended for, and won't work on other planes (and in a few rare cases, there is no spell key for that plane). Be warned that on some of the more chaotic planes, spell keys can shift unexpectedly; what might work yesterday might not work tomorrow.

Spell keys for Carceri would have been: The conjuration key is a perfectly round, fist-sized lodestone. For divinations, the key's a good quantity of the caster's own blood-- not comfortable, but preferable (to most) over sacrificing a companion. The necromancy key requires the thigh bone of a farastu gehreleth. The transmutation key is a lead necklace, worned wrapped around the wrist of the caster.

They're not big mysteries and most of them can be found with a modicum of research or decent ranks in Knowledge: Planar (except for the shifting keys-- you're better off asking the natives or a lanned blood in that case).

Hey, if you guys think this is too much of a problem, we can ditch it. But I thought it would add a lot of flavor to the setting and had been sorry to see it go in 3e.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 22, 2004)

I think it sounds kinda fun, but then again I'm not a spellcaster.    How would it work for weapons and armor?

And did you post our last adventure somewhere?  Because if you did, I missed it and I'm sorry.


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## deadestdai (Sep 22, 2004)

I'm thinking the weapons and armour idea should only apply to items that specifically state or have powers that pertain to a certain plane or so forth, rather than just any weapon. Our Gm has already said this adventure is going to be tough, I'd hate to be handicapped that much when we might really need to have what we carry at full power. The spell idea I remember fondly, especially wild majicks and so forth from 2ed. For flavour's sake, it'd be very fun methinks to have the effects included, but again, we'll probably need these powers and spells to help us.....

I'm just glad I didn't go for a spellcaster. 

(And now I'm off for an early bed - forgive me if this didn't make sense. Today was a tiring one.)


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 22, 2004)

That all sounds fine to me.  As far as Vlad, though, I'm not sure that him being LG makes him any less of a lunatic.  He's certainly fringe element LG.

best,
Nick


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I think it sounds kinda fun, but then again I'm not a spellcaster.    How would it work for weapons and armor?



I'm assuming you mean weapons and armor with special powers, not the enhancement bonuses themselves. Well, those would be subject to the magical conditions like spells themselves. So if you had a sword that could cast _cure light wounds_ three times a day and you were on Carceri, the effect of the healing spell would be halved just as if your cleric had cast the spell without a spell key. Magical conditions would also apply to spells and effects cast from items. I was just going to leave weapon and armor bonuses untouched for this campaign though. As deadestdai said, the adventure is pretty tough and I didn't want to handicap the party with subpar equipment.

This is meant to make the game a little more interesting, not to cripple the party in terms of spell power (which is why I'm *not* thinking about instituting the rule where clerics lose caster levels the further away they are from the home plane of their patron deity). Occassionally, these magic conditions may result in an inconvenience for you (or maybe even a boon depending on the circumstance), but it shouldn't be a major disadvantage. And I will take them into consideration when calculating CR for monsters and awarding XP. 




> And did you post our last adventure somewhere?  Because if you did, I missed it and I'm sorry.



No, no need for apology. You didn't miss anything... my idea for starting is that results from your last adventure sort of lead into the current adventure (You'll see what I mean when I post the In Character thread). But I thought I wouldn't be giving much away prematurely by saying it took place in Carceri.


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## deadestdai (Sep 22, 2004)

(Okay, I lied - sleep-time isn't forthcoming just yet.)

True, Vlad must be a special one to be a "good" aligned member of the Dustmen. Don't they do bad things to cutters like make them dead so they can just raise them again as walking-servant-corpses? I mean, a blood's gotta be careful lest her bone-box be bashed in or wiped clean of itself and she find herself a Dead'n's slave. At least that's the chant in the Hive. Not that I'd accuse ol' Vlad of doing that sort of thing - of course! He's no Knight of the Post or anything. But i did hear the chant.....

Then again, the berk who told me that snappy piece was a tad addled, so I could be wrong.


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## Thanee (Sep 22, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Well, if by fair, you mean that everyone is affected (natives and non-natives of the plane alike), then yes, it is fair. What spells are enhanced are enhanced both for you and for the enemy. What spells are diminished are likewise diminished both for you and your foes.




Nah, I rather meant, that it shouldn't be much more of a disadvantage than an advantage over time.

But in general I have no problems with a few such inconveniences. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Serpenteye (Sep 22, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> I've got a question for everyone. In PS 2e, there were all sorts of interesting rules concerning magic that got tossed out in 3e. For example, there was the one where your cleric level decreased the further away you got away from your patron deity's home plane. There was another one where your magic weapons and armor decreased in bonuses the further away you got from the plane where it was forged. And finally, some spells and schools were enhanced or diminished or altered, depending on which plane you were.
> 
> I was thinking about leaving out the first two magic conditions (fluctuating clerical caster level and weapon/armor bonuses), but what do people say to bringing back the last one (spell keys and all)? For me, saying "nonlawful characters on Mechanus suffer a -2 penalty on all Charisma-, Wisdom-, and Intelligence-based checks" and "Normal Magic" just don't capture some of the flavor of the old setting....




I think it's a great idea, it makes each plane a little more unique and adds a not of flavour to the setting.


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## Ferrix (Sep 22, 2004)

Donner going up in 5, would have been up yesterday but had to evacuate the library.


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## Ferrix (Sep 22, 2004)

Only thing I'm sort of questionable about is my cohort/mount, which I'm not entirely too certain I did things correctly on.

Go!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 22, 2004)

Okey-dokey, Ferrix, here are my comments for Donner Hund:

--His hit points should be 94, not 99 (10+10+(5x10)+24=94).
--You should add in the +2 bonus to Ride and Handle Animal skills check from the Hound Master PrC. Also, you gain a +2 synergy bonus to Ride from Handle Animal. I don't understand the +2 Circ notation under Ride though; is that from an item or something? I don't see anything in his gear that would account for it. Anyway, Donner's HA should be +22 (15 base + 2 Cha +3 feat + 2 PrC), and his Ride should also be +22 (15 base + 0 Dex + 3 feat + 2 synergy + 2 PrC).
--What is the Valorous property on his lance and which book is it from (from the price I assume it's a +1 special ability)? I don't think I've encountered that one.
--A few prices for items are a little off, though it ultimately doesn't impact much on his money. They are: +2 adamantine valorous lance (21,010 gp-- the mw quality is included in the price of the adamantine), +1 ghost touch longsword (8,315 gp-- you didn't include the mw and weapon price), mw silver kukri (328 gp-- 300 gp for mw, 20 gp for silver, 8 gp for the kukri), and 20 +1 arrows should cost 920 gp.
--Also, which book is saddlebags of providing in? I remember seeing it somewhere....
--Grizzle's +2 mithral chain shirt barding should be 5,200 gp, I think (4000 enhancement + 1000 mithral + 200 barding). Also, _magic fang_ potions cost 50 gp each so 4 of them should be 200 gp. Grizzle should then have an excess 1,600 gp to spend.
--As a 6th level Hound Master, Donner should have three pack members, not four.
--Also, the Fort saves for his pack members should be +8 (5 base + 3 Con), not +9.




			
				Ferrix said:
			
		

> Only thing I'm sort of questionable about is my cohort/mount, which I'm not entirely too certain I did things correctly on.



Okay, let's see. Grizzle is ECL 10. He's 6 HD, so that's 6 ECLs right there. If you slap the winged template on, that's another +2 LA. Since it also has the abilities of a paladin mount, that's another additional +2 LA on top (DMG, p. 200, first column, under "Paladin Cohort Mounts"). That brings us to ECL 10.  If you want to keep those two fighter levels, you're going to have to drop the winged template (since you can't drop anything else). Also his HD would be 6d8+2d10+Con bonus (he doesn't get d10s for his dog levels)-- you would treat Grizzle as a multiclass dog/fighter when calculating BAB, saves, skills and whatnot.

I'm not sure how you did his stats (or how he managed to have a natural armor of +12!  )... my suggestion would be to start with a riding dog's base stats, add bonuses from the winged template on top if you're keeping that (+4 Dex, +2 Wis), plus any from the paladin special mount (+2 Str, and an Int of 7), plus 1 ability score gain for being 4 or more HD. You would not use the 28 point buy method to buy his stats (since all nonhumanoid cohorts simply use the base creature stats in the MM).

I also have a few other questions, such as how did Grizzle wind up with Improved Trip if he didn't take it as a feat (I know he would have Trip as a special ability for being a wardog)? Also, what is the Natural Heavyweight feat and where is it found?

I suppose if you like, I will stat out your dog for you to save you the hassle, if you tell me what you want.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 22, 2004)

Alright! Since everyone has their character up, we can get this show on the road! 

From the sounds of it, no one has any objections to using the magical conditions for different planes as per 2e rules so we'll be trying that out.

I will put up the In Character thread in a couple of hours.... yay!


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## Thanee (Sep 22, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> ... a multiclass dog/fighter ...






Bye
Thanee


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## Ferrix (Sep 22, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> --His hit points should be 94, not 99 (10+10+(5x10)+24=94).
> --You should add in the +2 bonus to Ride and Handle Animal skills check from the Hound Master PrC. Also, you gain a +2 synergy bonus to Ride from Handle Animal. I don't understand the +2 Circ notation under Ride though; is that from an item or something? I don't see anything in his gear that would account for it. Anyway, Donner's HA should be +22 (15 base + 2 Cha +3 feat + 2 PrC), and his Ride should also be +22 (15 base + 0 Dex + 3 feat + 2 synergy + 2 PrC).




Woops, I usually do the average on each die as half which is 5.5, my bad.  Will fix skills.



> --What is the Valorous property on his lance and which book is it from (from the price I assume it's a +1 special ability)? I don't think I've encountered that one.
> --A few prices for items are a little off, though it ultimately doesn't impact much on his money. They are: +2 adamantine valorous lance (21,010 gp-- the mw quality is included in the price of the adamantine), +1 ghost touch longsword (8,315 gp-- you didn't include the mw and weapon price), mw silver kukri (328 gp-- 300 gp for mw, 20 gp for silver, 8 gp for the kukri), and 20 +1 arrows should cost 920 gp.
> --Also, which book is saddlebags of providing in? I remember seeing it somewhere....
> --Grizzle's +2 mithral chain shirt barding should be 5,200 gp, I think (4000 enhancement + 1000 mithral + 200 barding). Also, _magic fang_ potions cost 50 gp each so 4 of them should be 200 gp. Grizzle should then have an excess 1,600 gp to spend.




Valorous is players guide to faerun? Basically it doubles damage on a charge.  Sorry bout those prices, I put rough estimates up when I was making him and never cleaned 'em up.  Saddlebags are from the mounts section of arms and equipment.  Ah, I doubled the mithral cost too.  Thought I had the magic fang potions at 200gp.  Must have been a mistype on my part.



> --As a 6th level Hound Master, Donner should have three pack members, not four.
> --Also, the Fort saves for his pack members should be +8 (5 base + 3 Con), not +9.




Those are hold-overs from before, will fix accordingly.



> Okay, let's see. Grizzle is ECL 10. He's 6 HD, so that's 6 ECLs right there. If you slap the winged template on, that's another +2 LA. Since it also has the abilities of a paladin mount, that's another additional +2 LA on top (DMG, p. 200, first column, under "Paladin Cohort Mounts"). That brings us to ECL 10.  If you want to keep those two fighter levels, you're going to have to drop the winged template (since you can't drop anything else). Also his HD would be 6d8+2d10+Con bonus (he doesn't get d10s for his dog levels)-- you would treat Grizzle as a multiclass dog/fighter when calculating BAB, saves, skills and whatnot.
> 
> I'm not sure how you did his stats (or how he managed to have a natural armor of +12!  )... my suggestion would be to start with a riding dog's base stats, add bonuses from the winged template on top if you're keeping that (+4 Dex, +2 Wis), plus any from the paladin special mount (+2 Str, and an Int of 7), plus 1 ability score gain for being 4 or more HD. You would not use the 28 point buy method to buy his stats (since all nonhumanoid cohorts simply use the base creature stats in the MM).
> 
> ...




That's sort of lame that I don't get to use the 28 point buy method on his stats just cause he's a nonhumanoid.  Where does it say that?

I'll drop the fighter levels and keep the winged template.  The winged template makes him a magical beast, and recalculates his hd, etc. as a magical beast (full bab, etc.).  I listed improved trip cause that's how I think they list it under the wolf.  Natural heavyweight is from Planar handbook, doubles carrying capacity and some bonuses to skills and some penalties to others.  A heritage feat.

Riding dogs have a +4 natural armor, +6 increase from the special mount abilities (the +8 was a leftover).  The paladin special mount is level +4, so he counts as a 10th level paladin in regards to his mount, thus his stats are a bit higher.  I think I had one extra distributed point which is left over from a prior version.  Will fix stuff up and modify him tomorrow.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 23, 2004)

Okay, the In Character thread is up! (Whew, that took a little longer than expected...)

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1771198

I will also put links to this on the first post of this thread and also in the Rogues Gallery.

Ferrix, I'll check over Donner again later when I have time.


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## deadestdai (Sep 23, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Okay, the In Character thread is up! (Whew, that took a little longer than expected...)
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1771198
> 
> ...





Wooo!

I'll try to read up on it tonight, but I might not be able to post until afterwork tomorrow. *happy*


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## Thanee (Sep 23, 2004)

What does Pr/Pl stand for?

Prime material/extra Planar or something like that?

Bye
Thanee


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## Ashy (Sep 23, 2004)

Proxy/Planar, I believe...


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 23, 2004)

Pr = Prime
Pl= Planar
Px= Proxy
Pe=Petitioner


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## Ashy (Sep 23, 2004)

Close....  (It's been a while...)


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 23, 2004)

Having three proxies in the party would be... interesting, to say the least. 

Speaking of threes, this party seems to be pretty determined to follow the Rule-of-Threes: three females, three males, three goods, three neutrals, three primes, three planars....

Now if we could only convince Donner to become lawful and one of the others to adopt a faction, we could have three lawfuls, three chaotics, and three factions and three non-faction members too!


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## Ashy (Sep 23, 2004)

Sounds like it is all good for the DM!    Lots ta work with!


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## Serpenteye (Sep 24, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Having three proxies in the party would be... interesting, to say the least.
> 
> Speaking of threes, this party seems to be pretty determined to follow the Rule-of-Threes: three females, three males, three goods, three neutrals, three primes, three planars....
> 
> Now if we could only convince Donner to become lawful and one of the others to adopt a faction, we could have three lawfuls, three chaotics, and three factions and three non-faction members too!




Isn't a proxy some kind of substitute for a deity? Or are there many different kinds and degrees?


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Valorous is players guide to faerun? Basically it doubles damage on a charge.



Nope, didn't see it in there (looked under the weapon special abilities section in the Magic Items chapter... unless it's elsewhere in the book?). :\ You're going to have to find the source before I can approve it (providing I own the sourcebook).

Found the saddlebags of providing though, thanks.




> That's sort of lame that I don't get to use the 28 point buy method on his stats just cause he's a nonhumanoid.  Where does it say that?



It doesn't... In fact, the DMG doesn't say anything about using a point buy system for cohorts at all. Many DMs just let PCs use the same array they gave PCs (or perhaps a slightly weaker array) if it is a playable race--after all, it's no fun to have a cohort that has straight 10s across its abilities. If it's not, the DMG pretty much assumes the player uses the stats straight out of the MM if it is a monster-- like a dragon or a unicorn-- and assigns a LA based on the creatures abilities. (See the section titled "Special Cohorts" in the DMG, p. 199 for this).

The complication lies in that you're trying to combine your mount with your cohort. A special mount uses the base MM statistics for that animal, and gains special bonuses to make become stronger, faster, tougher than its usual type. Being a cohort simply lets it reach an even higher ECL than it otherwise could, whether through class levels or templates, provided your Leadership score was high enough. There's nothing about it that guarantees what sort of scores the cohort receives.

Animals also have some peculiar limitations, such as they can't have an Int higher than 2, and usually no Cha higher than 6 (or 10 if dire). This messes up the system of distributing points, which wasn't made for this sort of thing.

However, if you want some fluidity in creating Grizzle's stats, and want to make him more elite than the usual dog, I'm willing to offer this compromise: He receives as ability score adjustments: +4 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Dex, -8 Int, +2 Wis, -4 Cha. He receives 28 points to spend on buying scores, but you must spend at least 2 points on Cha to give him at least a 6 Cha after racial mods. Whatever his Int is after racial mods is his Int, as opposed to what he receives would have received on the special mount table, though his minimum Int must be at least 2. Would this be acceptable to you?




> I'll drop the fighter levels and keep the winged template.  The winged template makes him a magical beast, and recalculates his hd, etc. as a magical beast (full bab, etc.).



It does change his creature type into magical beast but does not change HD, BAB progression, saves, skills, etc. If you look at the example creature they have for the template (a winged dog, actually) you will notice all that remains the same as base creature type-- animal. Its creature type is magical beast only for determining what sort of spells and effects can affect it.




> I listed improved trip cause that's how I think they list it under the wolf.



The wolf's trip ability is not the same as the Improved Trip feat, actually. The feat allows the creature an extra attack on a successful trip while the the trip ability... well, here's the text for it from the MM:
*Trip (Ex):* A wolf that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the wolf.​Essentially, it lets the wolf (or riding dog) make a trip attempt at the same time it makes a bite attack and the wolf (or dog) doesn't provoke an AoO when doing so.




> Natural heavyweight is from Planar handbook, doubles carrying capacity and some bonuses to skills and some penalties to others.  A heritage feat.



Ah. Well, since it is a heritage feat, your winged dog would have to come from a world with heavy gravity... which is rather at odds with its winged nature. The only plane with heavy gravity that comes to mind is the Elemental Plane of Earth. Grizzle can't have the winged template and have this feat as well. Sorry. :\


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## Ferrix (Sep 24, 2004)

That'll happen ;-)


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## Ferrix (Sep 24, 2004)

Alrighty, since my brain is sort of off in left field at the moment you want to write up Grizzle for me?

Drop the winged template and add back those fighter levels.  This would make it all that much easier for me.

Are the animal companions all set except for having one too many?


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Isn't a proxy some kind of substitute for a deity? Or are there many different kinds and degrees?



A proxy is a powerful, hand-picked servant of a deity, and can be a celestial or mortal (or anything else the deity wants, really  ). They are often imbued with extra abilities to help them carry out their duty.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> That'll happen ;-)



Eh? Did I miss something?


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## Ferrix (Sep 24, 2004)

I'll find the valorous property, it's in one of those FR source books, races of faerun or something.  Will figure it out when I go back home and report back on that issue.


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## Ferrix (Sep 24, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Eh? Did I miss something?




Donner doesn't so much fit in the lawful profile, he's all too often seen his old adventuring parties disappear from failed cooperation to think it's such a useful thing.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Alrighty, since my brain is sort of off in left field at the moment you want to write up Grizzle for me?
> 
> Drop the winged template and add back those fighter levels.  This would make it all that much easier for me.



If you'd like.  I will try to get something posted for your perusal by tonight.



> Are the animal companions all set except for having one too many?



They should have a Ref save of +8, not +9, but other than that and having one too many dogs, they're good to go.


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## Ferrix (Sep 24, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> If you'd like.  I will try to get something posted for your perusal by tonight.
> 
> 
> They should have a Ref save of +8, not +9, but other than that and having one too many dogs, they're good to go.





Thanks, I'll fix the animal companions now.


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## Thanee (Sep 24, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> A proxy is a powerful, hand-picked servant of a deity, ...




Like Zoe? Hey, she _is_ a favored soul. 

j/k

Bye
Thanee

P.S. Re: Grizzle... adding class levels changes stats to elite array which technically is 25 point buy.

How about a half-celestial? Our halfling paladin (P&P) has such a riding dog mount and its pretty fine (and can fly). Dunno how that fits to the "Thunder Dog", tho.


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## Thanee (Sep 24, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> I'll find the valorous property, it's in one of those FR source books, races of faerun or something.  Will figure it out when I go back home and report back on that issue.




Unapproachable East (p. 54).

Bye
Thanee


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## Ferrix (Sep 24, 2004)

That might work, but I wouldn't be able to have him as a cohort as his ECL even without fighter levels would turn around 12.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Unapproachable East (p. 54).



Ah, sadly, that is a book I do not have.  You'll have to pick something else, Ferrix.


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## Thanee (Sep 24, 2004)

Shouldn't that be Riding Dog 1 Warbeast +1 Half-Celestial +4 Paladin Mount +2 = ECL 8 as base?

The extra HD from being a Paladin Mount should not figure into the ECL again, or do they?

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

They should since they count as normal HD for all intents and purposes-- just as racial Hit Dice count in ECL determination. The +2 ECL for paladin mount is for all the special abilities and bonuses that being a special mount gets. It makes no sense that being a paladin mount only gives +2 ECL whether the paladin mount has 2 extra HD or 8 extra HD.


----------



## deadestdai (Sep 24, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Having three proxies in the party would be... interesting, to say the least.
> 
> Speaking of threes, this party seems to be pretty determined to follow the Rule-of-Threes: three females, three males, three goods, three neutrals, three primes, three planars....
> 
> Now if we could only convince Donner to become lawful and one of the others to adopt a faction, we could have three lawfuls, three chaotics, and three factions and three non-faction members too!




Oooo.... I had almost forgotten about the whole rule of three's thing. Cool! I really need to read up some.


----------



## Thanee (Sep 24, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> They should since they count as normal HD for all intents and purposes-- just as racial Hit Dice count in ECL determination. The +2 ECL for paladin mount is for all the special abilities and bonuses that being a special mount gets. It makes no sense that being a paladin mount only gives +2 ECL whether the paladin mount has 2 extra HD or 8 extra HD.




But then, what exactly is the point of combining mount and Leadership!?

Shouldn't there be at least some advantage?
More importantly shouldn't there definitely be no disadvantage?

If a 10th level paladin has a half-celestial (+1 CR when not increasing the half-celestial abilities with the bonus HD) warbeast (+1 CR +1 HD) riding dog mount (CR 1 HD 2), which is CR 3, thus available at 7th level earlierst (flying ability), which grants it +4 HD (level+3) from being a paladin mount, to a total of 7 HD.

Now, looking at the ECL, it would be 7 (HD) +4 (half-celestial) +2 (paladin mount) = 13, thus unavailable, if combined with Leadership, yet without Leadership it would be fine!?

Well, to further complicate things, even without the bonus HD it would not work as a cohort, since it would add up to 9 still, which is one point too high, the problem from using CR in one and LA in the other. 

That just can't be right! You are better off simply not using Leadership. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

CR and LA and ECL aren't the same thing though. You can't use one to determine the other. Usually, CR is merely used for calculating how much XP to award for the defeat of that monster. The problem is, the DMG uses CR to determine paladin mounts (IMHO, a very bad system) and ECL to determine cohort levels. And it doesn't give any guidelines on how to merge the two, other than a short paragraph on how it adds a +2 LA to the cohort's ECL. :\

Look, an 8th level paladin can have a griffon (CR 4) as a special mount and the creature would have 2 bonus HD, +4 natural armor, +1 Str, 6 Int, and a slew of special abilities. At least that's according to rules under "Unusual Mounts" (p. 204 DMG).

But a griffon cohort has a level equivalent of 10 (7HD + 3 LA), which means you have to be at least an 11th level character with a Leadership score of 14 or higher to have one... and it doesn't even have bonus HD or special abilities. 

So yes, by the rules, cohort mounts are weakers than special mounts, at least from a numbers standpoint.

But what do you want me to do? I'm already giving Donner a wardog that has all the abilites of a 10th level paladin mount (as per his hound master level), plus it has 2 fighter levels on top (which a special mount can never hope to achieve). Plus, I'm willing to let it have elite stats-- better than that of an average wardog, plus it will have 16K worth of equipment as befitting a cohort. Is that not generous enough? We gotta slap a half-celestial template on it too?  I'm sorry, but that's not balanced to me.


----------



## Thanee (Sep 24, 2004)

Nah, I was just looking at from start (half-celestial being more like an alternate idea, than an addition), only thing I'm saying is, that if the mount is weaker than one he could get without Leadership, then something isn't right. 

If you have that covered, than everything is fine. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 24, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> So yes, by the rules, cohort mounts are weakers than special mounts, at least from a numbers standpoint.




And rightly so, but cohort special mounts should at least be slightly better than special mounts. 

Why can't they simply use the same system for all of that stuff, but need to figure CR here ECL there... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

Ehh, sorry, didn't mean to sound terribly defensive but this whole cohort-special mount thing is... problematic. 

I think the half-celestial template is a perfect example of what's wrong with it. It's +1 or +2 CR, but it's a +4 LA. By DMG rules, a 10th level paladin could have something like a half-celestial griffon because it's CR 6, but that thing would be something like ECL 14, if one were to play it as a PC or as an NPC. There's a 8(!!) numbers difference between the CR and ECL in that case.

And that's just really messed up.  I think a half-celestial griffon may be too buff for a 10th level paladin (especially considering the all other bonuses it gets on top of that), but would probably be too weak in a party of 14th level characters. (On the other hand, I suppose having a 14th-level character's worth of equipment and elite stats help.) I dunno.... *throws up hands*


----------



## Thanee (Sep 24, 2004)

What I said... CR/ECL. 

I'd probably just make a special mount and then add something worth like 2 CR/ECL for the feat, or simply have Ferrix drop Leadership, pick another feat and make it a special mount without the hassle. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

Oh well, what's done is done. We've got _something_ worked out, anyway....


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 24, 2004)

Okay, Ferrix, how does this look?

*Grizzle*; Medium Magical Beast [Augmented]; HD 6d8+2d10+24 (62 hp); Init +2; Speed 50 feet; AC 28 (+2 Dex, +10 natural, +6 armor), flatfooted 26, touch 12; BAB +6, Grapple +11; Atk +12/+7 melee (1d6+7, critical x2, bite); SA Trip (as wolf); SQ empathic link, improved evasion, improved speed, low-light vision, scent, share spells, share saving throws; SV Fort +14, Ref +8, Will +7; Str 20, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 6. Skills and Feats: Jump +12, Listen +8, Spot +8, Swim +7, Survival +2 (+5 when tracking by scent); Alertness, Blind Fight, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus (bite), Track.

_Carrying capacity:_ A light load for Grizzle is up to 200 pounds; a medium load 201-400 pounds; and a heavy load, 401-600 pounds. He can drag 3,000 lbs. 

_Possessions:_ +2 mithral chain shirt barding (5,200 gp), collar of adaptation (9,000 gp), halter of resistance +1 (1,000 gp), 4 potions of _magic fang_ (200 gp), 2 potions of _cure moderate wounds_ (600 gp).

----------------​
Notes: I used the elite array for his base stats (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) using the racial ability modifiers I had in the earlier post. I tried to keep as close as I could to what I could remember of the original Grizzle.

By the way, for Aegis and Tor, you cannot switch Track for Toughness because Track is a bonus racial feat. You can, if you wish, switch Alertness for Toughness instead.


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## Thanee (Sep 26, 2004)

> Then she got the bright idea to turn it on its side and roll it, which it did quite well... out the door, into the hall, and down the stairs to the second floor with a spectacular racket. This also had the side benefit of bringing one of the staff running... they'd be sure to know where she could get some water!




That part is just great! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 29, 2004)

*Vacation*

I'll be on vacation for about two weeks. Don't wait on me, Zoe will just relax, dance, drink, socialize, tag along, whatever seems reasonable for so long. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 29, 2004)

Have fun on your vacation!

I'll just have Zoe in the background though I don't think the tavern scene is really going to be much longer... certainly not for the next two weeks anyhow.


----------



## Thanee (Sep 29, 2004)

Will do! 

If needed, just use her spells for healing (Vigor, extended Vigor, Heal) and let her stay in the back otherwise. Considering, that she is the primary healer in the group, that might be needed, if there are some unpleasant happenings ahead. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 30, 2004)

Sephiroth, do you mind if I shuffle around some skill points?  I want to take some cross-class ranks in Knowledge (nobility and courtesy) and Perform (dance) for Blade to reflect her chivelry training.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 1, 2004)

No problem, go ahead.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 1, 2004)

Ashy waits patiently, hoping for an "in"...  

Seriously, gang - I am having a blast following along with you all - the RPing is awesome!  It is almost as fun as playing...

...almost....  

(sniff....sniff....)


----------



## deadestdai (Oct 2, 2004)

Keep pushing mate! I'm sure Seph will cave with enough pressure! *laughs*


----------



## Citizen Mane (Oct 2, 2004)

Things I wish I'd noticed before I made Vlad's familiar: Stitched Flesh Familiar.  A little gruesome, yes, but it would be an acceptable familiar for a Dustie.  Mind you, I like Hrothgeat (a dust mephit makes a lot of sense, and I think a paladin would be a little wigged out by a frankencat).



> *Stitched Flesh Familiar* [General]
> When you are ready and able to acquire a new familiar, you may choose to gain a stitched flesh familiar.
> 
> *Prerequisites*: Ability to acquire a new familiar, ability to cast three or more necromancy spells.
> ...


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 2, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> Ashy waits patiently, hoping for an "in"...
> 
> Seriously, gang - I am having a blast following along with you all - the RPing is awesome!  It is almost as fun as playing...



Yep, I definitely have to say it's been a pleasure thus far (all one week of it ) running this... hope you guys are having fun as well! 




			
				deadestdai said:
			
		

> Keep pushing mate! I'm sure Seph will cave with enough pressure! *laughs*



Oh man... At least the boards aren't a visual medium. I don't think I'd be able to take it if Ashy starting making sad puppy eyes at me or something.... 




			
				Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Things I wish I'd noticed before I made Vlad's familiar: Stitched Flesh Familiar.  A little gruesome, yes, but it would be an acceptable familiar for a Dustie.  Mind you, I like Hrothgeat (a dust mephit makes a lot of sense, and I think a paladin would be a little wigged out by a frankencat).



Well, considering the game started about a month before the book is even due out... well, what can ya do? It _is_ a pretty neat idea though... and really quite creepy now that I'm trying to visualize it in my head. I think there'd be plenty of other characters, not just paladins, that would be freaked by such a beastie.


----------



## Citizen Mane (Oct 2, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Well, considering the game started about a month before the book is even due out... well, what can ya do? It _is_ a pretty neat idea though... and really quite creepy now that I'm trying to visualize it in my head. I think there'd be plenty of other characters, not just paladins, that would be freaked by such a beastie.




Yeah, I realized that wasn't the best choice of words after I thought about it, but I was feeling a bit lazy, so I didn't edit it.  Didn't mean to sound like my precognition was on the fritz.    In any case, it's meaning that Libris Mortis is looking pretty good to me.  

Nick


----------



## Ashy (Oct 3, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Oh man... At least the boards aren't a visual medium. I don't think I'd be able to take it if Ashy starting making sad puppy eyes at me or something....










[SIZE=-2]please?[/SIZE]


----------



## Serpenteye (Oct 3, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> ... hope you guys are having fun as well!




Definately .


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 3, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> [image snipped]
> [SIZE=-2]please?[/SIZE]



I stand corrected... 

Good grief, Ashy, if you really want to play that much... *sound of will cracking*

...you're in. Welcome aboard!


----------



## deadestdai (Oct 4, 2004)

Ashy, that was low man.... But cute. 

Yer bad man. 

Heh.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 4, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> I stand corrected...
> 
> Good grief, Ashy, if you really want to play that much... *sound of will cracking*
> 
> ...you're in. Welcome aboard!




WOO HOO!!!!  

So, can I just play the character that deadestdai created for me?


----------



## Ashy (Oct 4, 2004)

deadestdai said:
			
		

> Ashy, that was low man.... But cute.
> 
> Yer bad man.
> 
> Heh.




Ya do what ya gotta.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 4, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> WOO HOO!!!!
> 
> So, can I just play the character that deadestdai created for me?



You mean Burrow, the one made by Isida? 'Cause I don't remember deadestdai making one for you...

Sure, post the character over at the Rogue's Gallery and I'll check over it and then you can get started.  (If you want to make a character of your own, that would be fine with me too.)


----------



## deadestdai (Oct 5, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> You mean Burrow, the one made by Isida? 'Cause I don't remember deadestdai making one for you...
> 
> Sure, post the character over at the Rogue's Gallery and I'll check over it and then you can get started.  (If you want to make a character of your own, that would be fine with me too.)





Burrow would be a fun char to have along! Though, one thing to change on the char sheet, the AC - it says 11, but I am not sure the Wild Rhino Hide armour was included? I'd hate to see our Earthen druid get smacked by just about EVERYTHING bigger than a bunny!


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Oct 5, 2004)

Whoops... my bad.  I go fixy now.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 5, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> You mean Burrow, the one made by Isida? 'Cause I don't remember deadestdai making one for you...
> 
> Sure, post the character over at the Rogue's Gallery and I'll check over it and then you can get started.  (If you want to make a character of your own, that would be fine with me too.)




Yes, Burrow - sorry Isida!  (The memory's not as good as it used to be....)


----------



## Ashy (Oct 5, 2004)

I've posted Burrow, but I still need to get the background done.  My question to the group is (since you all have worked yourself in with one another nicely): should I be an acquaintance from your pasts, or someone new to the group??


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 5, 2004)

You should already be acquainted with them. I've set it up so it's relatively easy for me to insert characters. 

See this post for details: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1765216&postcount=154

We can just assume you were off doing something on your own for a bit.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 5, 2004)

Alrighty, Ashy, here are my comments for Burrow:

--His point buy for ability scores are off by 2. You spent 34 points on abilities instead of 32. You will need to drop 2 points somewhere (perhaps Int and Cha since they won't affect your modifiers?)
--His hit point should be 100, not 96 (you get full hp for 2nd level too)
--Club damage for Small creatures is 1d4, not 1d6.
--Sling damage for Small creatures is 1d3, not 1d4. On the bright side, you can add your Str mod to damage in 3.5e. The downside is that it takes a move action to load a sling; therefore, unless you have the Rapid Reload feat, you can only fire one shot per round.
--A few of your skill mods are off due to incorrect ability mods. Concentration should be +9, Listen should be +11, Spot should be +10, and Survival should be +17.
--Is wild rhino armor the same as the rhino armor listed in the DMG or is it from somewhere else? (And if so, where?) Rhino armor in the DMG is listed at 5,165 gp, not 26,165 gp. If that's the armor Burrow has, then he has an extra 21,000 gp to spend (see last note on where to spend some of it... ).
--Okay, for Claw, he doesn't get increase in size from his bonus Hit Dice as an animal companion. (See p. 4 of the 
D&D FAQ for this ruling.) So you're going to have to take the size mods out of his stats. Sorry. :\
--Also, for Claw, how did Burrow manage to put a permanent _greater magic fang_ on his bite if he can't cast the spell? I suppose you could pay someone to do it... but then that should reflect under Burrow's gear (on the bright side, that does mean he wouldn't pay the XP for it.) That would cost 8050 gp (550 gp for the spell, 7500 gp for the XP cost).

Looking forward to the rest of seeing his personality and history!


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Oct 5, 2004)

For the _wild_ rhino hide armor, I deconstructed the cost for +2 hide armor, figuring the charging special ability was a 1,000gp add-on.  So we have 4,165gp for the base, then add the _wild_ quantity, which is a +3 bonus, equalling +5 armor.  +5 hide armor is 25,165, plus the charging special quality for 1,000gp = 26,165gp for the _wild_ rhino hide armor.  

As for Claw, sorry, my bad.  I'm used to AU animal companions, which do increase in size.  So... Claw's Str goes down by 8, his Dex goes up by 2, his Con goes down by 4 (and his hp), his natural armor goes down by 2, and his AC and attack go up by 1.

For the _greater magic fang_, Burrow is capable of casting it, he would just have to find a friendly wizard to cast _permanency_ for him.  (That is, if the DM would allow someone else to take the XP hit.  Hmm... but then he would still have to pay for the spell.  Whoops!)

Sorry for the point-buy and weapon size goofs.


----------



## rangerjohn (Oct 5, 2004)

I think the damage is right for the 'club' its the name that's wrong.  She says its used two-handed, that makes it a small great club.  Oops, just checked the SRD.  That's wrong on two counts, a small great club does 1d8 and its not on the druid's list.  Hence, it can't be used without the martial weapon feat.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 5, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> For the _wild_ rhino hide armor, I deconstructed the cost for +2 hide armor, figuring the charging special ability was a 1,000gp add-on.  So we have 4,165gp for the base, then add the _wild_ quantity, which is a +3 bonus, equalling +5 armor.  +5 hide armor is 25,165, plus the charging special quality for 1,000gp = 26,165gp for the _wild_ rhino hide armor.



Ah, I see. I was reading "wild rhino" (as opposed to a tame rhino, maybe?... ) armor instead of "wild" rhino armor. That's fine... except that if Burrow wants the _greater magic fang_ on Claw, he's going to have to scrounge up the funds from elsewhere... :\


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Oct 5, 2004)

My bad, sorry Ashy!

Yeah, those tame rhinos just aren't any good for armor...  All butter soft and whatnot.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 6, 2004)

Uhm, everyone is aware that portal keys are one use only, yes? Like the material component for a spell, once it's been used to activate a portal, it goes 'poof'!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 6, 2004)

Hey Ferrix, is my build of Grizzle okay with you? You can tweak the skills, feats, and equipment around if you like.

Also, could you pick a different special ability for Donner's lance? I don't have the sourcebook with the Valorous property in it, sorry. :\


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Oct 6, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Uhm, everyone is aware that portal keys are one use only, yes? Like the material component for a spell, once it's been used to activate a portal, it goes 'poof'!



  Would us planar savvy people recognize this and edit our request for two keys?  One to get us there and one to get us back?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 6, 2004)

Yep, the characters would all be aware of this... that's why I put up a reminder here in this thread, in case the players didn't.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 6, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> You should already be acquainted with them. I've set it up so it's relatively easy for me to insert characters.
> 
> See this post for details: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1765216&postcount=154
> 
> We can just assume you were off doing something on your own for a bit.




Understood.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 6, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> My bad, sorry Ashy!
> 
> Yeah, those tame rhinos just aren't any good for armor...  All butter soft and whatnot.




No prob, Isida.  Would you mind tweaking the version you posted, so I can just cut and paste it?  Not a lot of spare time on my hands right now, being several hundred miles from home and workin' my tailfeathers off!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 7, 2004)

Hey Isida, 2 portal keys and a map costs 26 silver, not 14.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Oct 7, 2004)

Right right, will be changing.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 8, 2004)

Since Isida's seems to be a tad busy right now, and I have a bit of free time, I'm doing the tweaking for her. You are, of course, welcome to do your own tweaking as you see fit. 

*Burrow
Male Earth Melfling Druid 11*
*Alignment:* Neutral Good
*Patron Deity:* Obad-Hai and Fharlanghn
*Home Plane:* Elemental Plane of Earth
*Height:* 3' 0''
*Weight:* 39 lbs.
*Skin:* Gray-Brown with clay-like texture
*Eyes:* Obsidian Black
*Age:* 68
*XP:* 65,000 (-3,000 XP buy-off at 3rd)

*Str:* 14 (+2) [4 points, +2 racial]  
*Dex:* 10 (+0) [4 points, -2 racial]
*Con:* 18 (+4) [6 points, +4 belt] 
*Int:* 10 (+0) [4 points, -2 racial]  
*Wis:* 20 (+5) [10 points, +2 levels, +2 pearl] 
*Cha:* 14 (+1) [4 points, +2 racial] 

*Class and Racial Abilities:*
+2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Int, extraplanar humanoid, breath weapon (15 ft. cone of rock shards and pebbles, deals 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage, Ref save DC 19 for half, 3 times per day, with 1d4 round between uses), casts earth spells at +1 caster level.  Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy (+14), woodland stride, trackless step, resist nature’s lure, wild shape 4/day (Tiny, Small, Medium, Large), venom immunity, spells.

Has +4 bonus on checks to avoid being bull rushed or tripped while standing on the ground.  Also has +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls if both he and his foe touch the ground.  (Due to Earth Heritage feat).  Also has acid resistance 5 (due to Improved Elemental Heritage feat).

*Hit Dice:* 11d8 + 44
*HP:* 100
*AC:* 16 (+0 Dex, +5 armor, +1 size)
*ACP:* -1
*Init:* +0 (+0 Dex)
*Speed:* 30 ft., burrow 10 ft. (20 ft. in armor)

*Saves:*
Fortitude +11 [+7 base, +4 Con]
Reflex +3 [+3 base, +0 Dex]
Will +12 [+7 base, +5 Wis]

*BAB:* +9/+4 (base +8/+3, +1 for being Small)
*Melee Atk:* +13/+8 (1d4+5+1d6 sonic/x2/B, Avalanche, _+2 thundering club_ wielded two-handed)  
*Ranged Atk:* +9/+4 (1d3+2/x2/50 ft./B, sling)

*Skills:*
Concentration +9  [5 ranks, +4 Con]
Handle Animal +12 [10 ranks, +2 Cha]
Knowledge (nature) +12 [10 ranks, +0 Int, +2 nature sense]
Listen +11 [6 ranks, +5 Wis]
Ride +12 [10 ranks, +0 Dex, +2 synergy from Handle Animal]
Spot +10 [5 ranks, +5 Wis]
Survival +17 [10 ranks, +5 Wis, +2 nature sense]

*Feats:*
Earth Heritage (1st level)
Improve Elemental Heritage (3rd level)
Endurance (6th level)
Diehard (9th level)

*Languages:*  Common, Druidic

*Spells Prepared*
Save DC +5
0th - _create water, cure minor wounds, detect magic, detect poison, know direction, purify food and drink._
1st - _cure light wounds x2, entangle, goodberry, magic stone x2, speak with animals._
2nd - _barkskin, reduce animal, soften earth and stone* x2, warp wood._
3rd - _cure moderate wounds x2, greater magic fang, meld into stone*, stone shape*._
4th - _planar tolerance x2, spike stones* x2._
5th - _stoneskin, transmute mud to rock*, transmute rock to mud*._
6th - _wall of stone*._
* - Earth spell, is cast at +1 caster level

*Equipment:*
*Belt of Health +4* 16,000gp
*Pearl of Wisdom +2* 4,000gp (worn as headband)
*Hide of Stone Beast (as wild rhino hide armor)* 26,165gp
*Avalanche (+2 thundering club)* 18,300gp
*Hare’s Luck (as cloak of resistance +3)* 9,000gp
*necklace of adaptation* 9,000gp
*Sling* 0gp
*20 sling bullets* 2sp
_*Heward's Handy Haversack*_ 2,000gp
~*Five doses of granite and diamond dust for stoneskin spell* 1,250
~*Scroll of heal* 1,650gp
~*Bedroll* 5sp
~*Everburning torch* 110gp
~*Sunrods (5)* 10gp
~*Waterskin* 1gp
~*50 ft. silk rope* 10gp
~*Trail rations (20 days worth)* 10gp
~*Belt pouch* 1gp
~*Cold weather outfit* 8gp

*Money*
484gp, 3sp

*Claw, dire badger animal companion:* Medium animal; HD 7d8+35+3; hp 69; Init +4; Spd 30 ft., burrow 10 ft.; AC 21 (+4 Dex, +7 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 17; Base Atk +5; Grp +8; Atk +8 melee (1d6+3, claw); Full Atk +8 melee (1d6+3, 2 claws) and +3 melee (1d6+1, bite); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA rage; SQ low-light vision, scent, link, share spells, evasion, devotion; AL NG; SV Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +3; Str 16, Dex 19, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10.

_Skills and Feats:_  Listen +8, Spot +8; Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Toughness, Track.

_Rage (Ex):_  A dire badger that takes damage in combat flies into a berserk rage on its next turn, clawing and biting madly until either it or its opponent is dead.  It gains +4 Str, +4 Con, and –2 AC.  The badger cannot end its rage voluntarily. 

_Rage Statistics:_  hp 83; AC 19 (touch 12, flat-footed 15); Grp +10; Atk +10 melee (1d6+5, claw); Full Atk +10 melee (1d6+5, 2 claws) and +5 melee (1d6+2, bite); SV Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +3; Str 20, Dex 19, Con 24, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10

_Tricks Known:_  Attack, Come, Defend, Down, Guard, Heel, Track, Stay, Seek.

**********​
Tweak notes:
--Corrected all the numbers.
--Removed the two extra ability points from Int and Cha.
--Left Burrow with the _wild_ rhino armor and took off the permanent spell on Claw since he can't afford the spell as is. Bumped Burrow's XP back up to 68,000 as a result.
--Since Burrow no longer needs the XP for the _permanency_, I then had him buy off his +1 LA at 3rd using the UA rules, like Flaust did. This means he follows the normal XP progression and will raise to 12th level at 66,000 XP.
--Dropped Claw back to a Medium creature and cleaned up a lot of the numbers.
--Add Claw's +1 ability score at 4HD to Con (Isida had it in Wis, I think) to give him a few more hit points.
--Shifted Claw's Improved Natural Attack feat from bite to claw, since Claw gets 2 claw attacks (as opposed to his 1 bite) and also, it's his primary attack.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 8, 2004)

Deadestdai, I just noticed that Flaust has a whopping *8*5,000 XP when she should have *6*5,000 XP....  Please correct. Thanks!


----------



## Serpenteye (Oct 8, 2004)

Great idea to make a special site for the campaign, Sepiroth.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 9, 2004)

Thank you.  The original adventure came with a picture book so I thought I'd share.

(No copyright infringement intended, WotC!  I will take the pictures down once the adventure is over.)


----------



## Ashy (Oct 11, 2004)

What site?????  Oh, and thanks, Seph!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 11, 2004)

It's more of an image gallery really, than an actual site. It doesn't have much in it right now, but I will put up pictures (and maps) as we go through the adventure.

You can access the front page here, but the only image that's up right now is the map of Torch.

And some of you might recognize the site graphics from another famous Planescape fan site...


----------



## Ashy (Oct 11, 2004)

I see there are none from my old site...  

Just joshin'...


----------



## Ashy (Oct 12, 2004)

I've added Burrow to the RG thread, will fill in the Background and such tomorrow...


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 12, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> I see there are none from my old site...
> 
> Just joshin'...



Sadly, I don't think I had any saved from the old planewalker.com (tho' I recall it having a really cool portal graphic ). But the other thing was that Jon so nicely made those nifty metal graphics available for people to download so I didn't feel too bad about re-using them....


----------



## Ashy (Oct 12, 2004)

Yea, I'll have to dig around and see if I can find some of those.


----------



## Serpenteye (Oct 13, 2004)

I'm sorry about my recent absence, but I've been having some computer-problems. 
Sepiroth, how do you feel about splitting up the party? Kiaros is an excellent scout, but not really when he's inhabiting a physical shell, so he could contribute more acting on his own until the group reaches the festhall.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 14, 2004)

I'm okay with splitting up as long as it's not extensive or constant and doesn't bog the thread down. This is primarily a party campaign-- it's okay to break off and scout ahead if you want (or do a quick side thing) but I find that lots of party splitting usually leads to chaos and dissatisfaction among the players. :\ So the short of it: okay to scout ahead, but try not to spend too much time away.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 14, 2004)

By the way, here's a link to the Mimir's cant dictionary, for those of you who might be having a smidgeon of trouble with the lingo of the planes. 

http://www.mimir.net/cant/cant2.html


----------



## Ashy (Oct 14, 2004)

Sep,

When do you think Burrow'll get in?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 14, 2004)

As soon as you finish writing up his background and personality. Then I'll put up a post working him in. 

If you have any ideas/preferences on his insertion angle, feel free to mention them.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 14, 2004)

DONE!  I think that you should have plenty to work with on pulling me into the party.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 15, 2004)

Okay Ashy, a post for you is up!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 15, 2004)

I will gone all Friday (10/15) to Sunday (10/17) to a wedding and will not have internet access. The earliest I will be able to post again will be Monday. Sorry for the inconvenience all. :\

When I get back, we'll get to the Festhall.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 15, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Okay Ashy, a post for you is up!



WOO HOO!!!


----------



## Citizen Mane (Oct 15, 2004)

No worries.    Have fun at the wedding.

Nick


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 19, 2004)

Bleargh. I'm finally back. ENWorld was down when I got back from the wedding and just when it went back up, my own host went down.  Go fig.

I'll try to put up a post a little later though since the site is very, very slow right now.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 19, 2004)

Welcome back, Seph!  Hope ya had a great time at the wedding!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 19, 2004)

It wasn't bad. Starving grad students have a hard time denouncing any place/event that has free food and booze as 'bad'.  I had more fun than expected, and we can just leave it at that.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 19, 2004)

Lol!  :d


----------



## Ashy (Oct 21, 2004)

Note:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=104448


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 24, 2004)

Ugh, sorry about the lack of activity for the last few days but a wee nasty bug has been making my life miserable. Will try to post when I feel a bit better....


----------



## Thanee (Oct 24, 2004)

Get well soon!

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Citizen Mane (Oct 25, 2004)

Feel better.


----------



## Serpenteye (Oct 25, 2004)

Yes, get better.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 25, 2004)

Ya - get better!

I'm back, BTW!!!


----------



## deadestdai (Oct 26, 2004)

Ack - concentrate on getting well, we can wait!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 26, 2004)

Thank you, everyone! Nasty bugs have been sent packing and we're back in business!  Just as soon as the boards speed up some and I can be sure my posts aren't going to lost in the limbo of "waiting for server to respond"....


----------



## Ashy (Oct 27, 2004)

Something you all might find interesting...  

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105158


----------



## Thanee (Oct 28, 2004)

Never go planeswalking alone. There are all kind of weird, freaking creatures out there, trying to eat you! 

 Bye
 Thanee


----------



## Ashy (Oct 28, 2004)

Amen!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 29, 2004)

But he looked like such a defenseless little thing and it's so huuuunnngrrryy....


----------



## deadestdai (Oct 29, 2004)

Feed it the badger - you can go find a new pet at our next plane.


----------



## Ashy (Oct 29, 2004)

Lol!!  :d


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 30, 2004)

Uh, _interesting_ latest strategy, Ashy...


----------



## Serpenteye (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah, jump into it's stomach and rip it apart from the inside!


----------



## Ashy (Oct 31, 2004)

I'm *WELL KNOWN* for my usual tactics and roleplaying...


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Oct 31, 2004)

*cough*  I must confess I've had characters rip apart creatures from inside before.  Ever seen the furnace golem from Tome of Horrors II?  It's got a really high AC and this nasty attack where it grapples people and tosses them into its furnace-stomach.  So it did that to a character of mine, but she was fire-resistant, and there was no crushing or acid damage like in most creature's stomachs.  The critter was so big inside it wasn't too hard to swing her sword, and the AC was much, much lower on the inside.  When she got out after pulling a inside job can-opening manuever, she said, "I'll have to remember that, things are much easier to kill from the inside!"


----------



## Ferrix (Oct 31, 2004)

I had a kobold barbarian who dual-wielded the nasty nasty claws gauntlets from the original Sword & Fist pre-errata.  He persuaded a dragon to take him as a humble sacrifice before the dragon's greatness by swallowing him whole.  Play off the dragon's vanity.  Poof raging kobold in the stomach.  It wretched me up eventually, but by then it was basically dead.


----------



## Ashy (Nov 1, 2004)

AAA notice:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105697


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 1, 2004)

Sheesh, haven't any of these monsters heard of chewing their food first? 

Heh, though I've had a number of players carve their way out a beastie's stomach though I must confess this is the first time I've had someone proactively encourage the monster to try to swallow them (verbally, even, complete with emphasis).


----------



## Ashy (Nov 1, 2004)

LOL!

Just wait and see what I have planned...  I'm the type of player that makes the rules for swallowing whole scream for mercy!


----------



## Serpenteye (Nov 1, 2004)

Clever, Ashy, let's hope there's enough room in there for a rhino.


----------



## deadestdai (Nov 2, 2004)

Bloody hell Ashy! I wasn't expecting that! Hehe


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 2, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> Just wait and see what I have planned...  I'm the type of player that makes the rules for swallowing whole scream for mercy!



I bet.  Sadly, the creature was not so interested in ending Burrow's misery quite so quickly. It likes to watch things scream and die, preferably outside its tummy, you see...

Though it looks like it'll probably become rhino toe-jam instead in its imminent future... 

By the way, deadestdai, did you see this post in response to Flaust's query (#171)? I was worried that it got lost among all the combat posts for Burrow.


----------



## deadestdai (Nov 2, 2004)

Irk!

Sorry, I guess I must have missed it!

Have replied now.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 2, 2004)

No problem!  That's why I mentioned it...


----------



## Ashy (Nov 2, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Clever, Ashy, let's hope there's enough room in there for a rhino.




Or, rather, let's hope not!


----------



## Ashy (Nov 2, 2004)

deadestdai said:
			
		

> Bloody hell Ashy! I wasn't expecting that! Hehe




  Gotta love the unpredictable!


----------



## Serpenteye (Nov 2, 2004)

Hey... Does anyone feel like conquering the world? Driving your enemies in front of you and hearing the lamentation of their women? It's the finest thing in life, you know, if Conan is to be believed... 

Please take a look at my thread in this forum, I need a lot of powerhungry players.

---
Sorry for the oot, Seph .


----------



## Ashy (Nov 2, 2004)

LINK????  Sounds like my kinda game!


----------



## Serpenteye (Nov 3, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> LINK????  Sounds like my kinda game!




http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105726

Everyone's welcome.


----------



## Thanee (Nov 3, 2004)

For some reason, I doubt you really need to "advertise" new games on these boards... 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Serpenteye (Nov 4, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> For some reason, I doubt you really need to "advertise" new games on these boards...
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Perhaps. I admit that it's rather bad taste of me to do so, but I need a lot of players (20 or so) and I only have a handful so far. So, if you're interested...


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 5, 2004)

Hey, I don't really mind. It sounds pretty darn cool but I just don't have the time to add another game, especially for something of this scope, and I'd rather be able to contribute regularly (and I'm sure you would prefer that too... ).


----------



## deadestdai (Nov 5, 2004)

Have to say likewise Seph. Thanks for letting me know Serpenteye, but I've also got the added factor of an internet hating wife to contend with!  :\ More games means more nagging about how much time I spend here! Heh.


----------



## Serpenteye (Nov 5, 2004)

Heh, it was worth a try. Especially if you drop in Ashy. There's a whole world out there just waiting for you to trample it under your feet .

Now I won't interrupt this thread any more with irrelevant whoring for players.


----------



## Ashy (Nov 5, 2004)

::chuckle::  I don't know if I'll bite on this one - wargames ain't really my cup o' tea...


----------



## Serpenteye (Nov 5, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> ::chuckle::  I don't know if I'll bite on this one - wargames ain't really my cup o' tea...




Ok. Feel free to lurk, and if you want to join in later that's ok too.


----------



## Ashy (Nov 8, 2004)

AAA thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1844417


----------



## Thanee (Nov 9, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Hmm.  Something to think about there.    Thanks.



 Just in case you might need that in future or something, Practiced Spellcaster is now printed out on the wizards page at the Complete Arcane feat preview (seems like they put it in there as well). 

 Bye
 Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Nov 9, 2004)

Seph, could you repost the link to the PS cant page (and/or put it into the beginning of this thread / on the campaign site)?

 I can't seem to find it anymore... :\

 Bye
 Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 9, 2004)

Sure! Sorry, must have gotten lost in one of the edits...  I'll put a link to it on the first post of this thread and the In Character thread as well.

Also, could everyone mark off their money, who haven't already? Thanks!


----------



## Citizen Mane (Nov 9, 2004)

Thanks, Thanee.  Complete Arcane is looking like the only book in the Complete series that I'm even remotely interested in.

Nick


----------



## Thanee (Nov 9, 2004)

Thanks, Seph! 

About Complete Arcane... I just hope they do not follow the current trend to put dozens of completely pointless feats in there, just to have dozens of feats in the book. :\ Some of the previews (Dual Wand Wielder  ) already looks quite bad, really. 

But there is still hope. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Citizen Mane (Nov 9, 2004)

I hear you.  I probably won't buy it, as I'm really covered with Malhavoc's BoEM series, but it at least has some things that interest me (as opposed to Complete Warrior, which I sold almost as soon as I bought it).

Nick


----------



## Ashy (Nov 11, 2004)

DM, I modified my character sheet...


----------



## Citizen Mane (Nov 11, 2004)

Quick check: kobolds are yippy dog men in this game? (This is, of course, cool with me -- it's my personal preference -- but I wanted to check.)

Nick


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Nov 11, 2004)

I was going to say this earlier, but I'll say it now anyway... Irish Mephling!  Hee hee hee!


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 11, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Thanks, Seph!
> 
> About Complete Arcane... I just hope they do not follow the current trend to put dozens of completely pointless feats in there, just to have dozens of feats in the book. :\ Some of the previews (Dual Wand Wielder  ) already looks quite bad, really.
> 
> ...




Well, at least it's got style... two wands at once baby!  Already using it for an artificer in a planescape game starting up here.


----------



## Ashy (Nov 12, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I was going to say this earlier, but I'll say it now anyway... Irish Mephling!  Hee hee hee!





Tee hee!  'Zactly!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 13, 2004)

Arg. Stupid bloody paper...  will try to update later tonight. Sorry.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 15, 2004)

*If it's not one thing, it's another*

Am currently on a friend's computer.... my own computer crashed and requires a massive re-install.  Fortunately had a backup saved from not too long ago but this will take a while. Will be back online as soon as I can. Thanks for your patience, everyone.


----------



## Citizen Mane (Nov 15, 2004)

No beef, Sephiroth — that's a rough break.


----------



## Thanee (Nov 15, 2004)

No problem at all. Get your machine back to work! 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Ashy (Nov 15, 2004)

Here here!


----------



## deadestdai (Nov 15, 2004)

Oof!

That's some awful news Seph - we'll be here waiting, bright and breezy.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 18, 2004)

W00t! Paper done, computer fixed... mostly.  There's still some funny going-ons and occasional freezes that worry me a little but at least it's not kernel-panicking anymore...   

Okay, now getting this show back on the road!  Thank you for waiting, everyone.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 18, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Quick check: kobolds are yippy dog men in this game? (This is, of course, cool with me -- it's my personal preference -- but I wanted to check.)



Oops, only saw this post just now.... But to answer your question, not exactly. Some kobolds are yippier than others (for example, this one), some of them are whinier, and a few of them are growly, though all of them do have rather high-pitched voices. They look pretty much as they do in the MM-- the description says they have "doglike heads" but I'm not seeing it... :\


----------



## Thanee (Nov 18, 2004)

You just know the wrong dogs. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Nov 18, 2004)

I dread to think about what Flaust would have said there...


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 18, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> You just know the wrong dogs.



Boy, if I only know the wrong dogs, I'm not sure I wanna know the right ones. 




			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I dread to think about what Flaust would have said there...



Something entirely appropriate and proper, I'm positive.


----------



## Ashy (Nov 18, 2004)

Heya Seph, are you waiting on me to post, or is the kobold gonna act?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 18, 2004)

Sorry to keep you waiting, Ashy, the kobold's going to act.  The post for that will be coming a little bit... I was having a lot of trouble writing it, for some reason, and took a break.


----------



## Ashy (Nov 18, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Sorry to keep you waiting, Ashy, the kobold's going to act.  The post for that will be coming a little bit... I was having a lot of trouble writing it, for some reason, and took a break.




No prob - just wanted to make sure you were not waiting on me...


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 18, 2004)

You know, thanks to the recent discussion about dog-headed kobolds and a  webcomic I just started reading last night, I now can't get the image of this out of my head for how kobolds look. Arg.... the cute!


----------



## Ashy (Nov 18, 2004)

Ack!  no... no!!!!


----------



## Thanee (Nov 18, 2004)

Heh. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Citizen Mane (Nov 18, 2004)

Cute, but not very threatening (famous last words, I know).

Nick


----------



## Citizen Mane (Nov 19, 2004)

Hey, all.  Just a quick note that I'm going to be away this weekend (through Sunday night).  I'll see you all on the other side. 

Nick


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 20, 2004)

Awww.... I think it scared Ashy off with the cute.  And now it's stalking him.... 

Whew! Pages and a combat later, Burrow finally meets up with the rest of the group. Hope you didn't mind this somewhat roundabout way of working you in, Ashy....


----------



## Ashy (Nov 20, 2004)

Not at all!!! I rather enjoyed it, in fact.  I am not used to playing a druid and it gave me a chance to "flex those druid muscles"...    Also, I might have gained a follower in the process!


----------



## deadestdai (Nov 20, 2004)

I wouldn't class a kobold as a follower mate. More of a snack really.


----------



## Ashy (Nov 21, 2004)

Burrow would not mind.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 21, 2004)

Did I mentioned the kobold was wearing this little red shirt...?


----------



## deadestdai (Nov 21, 2004)

What a shame, all that money wasted to get him through the gate, only to see him obliterated because of his poor choices in fashion.....


----------



## Citizen Mane (Nov 21, 2004)

Hey, it could be worse, it could be one of us.    Vlad's always been a black & grey kind of guy, so poor taste in fashion or no, Vlad'll never be wearing red.  I've always found that the second quickest way to get killed in a D&D game is to take levels in bard (mind you, I love bards) — the kobold doesn't have bard levels, too, does it?  

Nick


----------



## Ashy (Nov 22, 2004)

Poor, poor little red shirt...


----------



## Thanee (Nov 22, 2004)

Hey Ashy... you are a _mephling_. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Ashy (Nov 22, 2004)

Erps!  Sorry - slip o' da fingers...


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 23, 2004)

Huh... just noticed the new spoiler tag styles. Interesting... :\ Not sure yet if I like them or not.

By the way, it is just me or have all the posticons (the little banners that you can set to display campaign settings) disappeared from the topic views?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 23, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> I've always found that the second quickest way to get killed in a D&D game is to take levels in bard (mind you, I love bards) — the kobold doesn't have bard levels, too, does it?



Ehr, I have to admit your bard in Tailspinner's game is taking a bit of a beating right now... I really hope he stays with us! 

'Course, I'm playing a bard in one of Isida's games and I'm not entirely sure if he'll survive the current (and first) encounter... 

But at least they're not bards _and_ wearing red! At that point, perhaps they'd just spontaneously bleed out. 

Fortunately for the kobold, he does not have bard levels-- Torch does not tend to nurture creative and artistic souls....


----------



## Thanee (Nov 23, 2004)

Oh, I'm sure the Torchites are creative in their own twisted ways... 

 And ya, the nice lil icons are gone... *sniff*

 Bye
 Thanee


----------



## Ashy (Nov 23, 2004)

Seph, absolutely awesome post!!!!  WOW!


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 24, 2004)

Ehrm, thanks!    Glad you liked!


----------



## Ashy (Nov 24, 2004)

Truly a top-shelf job!    You did an excellent job of capturing and conveying the feel of Torch!


----------



## Serpenteye (Nov 24, 2004)

Hi...
I'm back. Sorry about not posting for a while. Been sick lately, but now I'm feeling better.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 24, 2004)

Glad to hear you're feeling better! And just in time too.... 

P.S. I placed you in the rear of the group on the battle map since I was going to have him rear-guard if you were still out.


----------



## Thanee (Nov 24, 2004)

Err... oops! 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Citizen Mane (Nov 24, 2004)

Indeed.


----------



## Thanee (Nov 24, 2004)

Hmm... what kind of action is it to touch yourself with a held touch spell? 

Free?

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 25, 2004)

Sounds good to me. Free action it is.


----------



## Serpenteye (Nov 25, 2004)

They never even knew what hit them, until it was too late...


----------



## Thanee (Nov 26, 2004)

Ok, just in case, yaknow. 

BTW, does the ghost have reach (because he's still 10' away from Zoe on the map)? The action I declared doesn't really figure that in, I noticed, and it wouldn't work well in that case. 

EDIT: Changed action declaration accordingly.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 26, 2004)

Yep, the ghost is Large and has 10' reach.

Crap, I just realized the ghost also takes up a 10' X 10' space... d'oh. Okay, the battle map has now been updated to reflect this. It's overlapping a tombstone now but since it's incorporeal, that doesn't really matter to it.


----------



## Thanee (Nov 30, 2004)

Concerning the darkness, does Zoe see the ghost with her _Blindsight_, or is she also affected by the darkness because it's incorporeal?

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 1, 2004)

Hmmm.... that's a toughie. I'd say for simplicity's sake that she can see it just fine. With the spell on, the darkness simply doesn't affect her, whether her opponent is corporeal or not.


----------



## Thanee (Dec 1, 2004)

Yeah, the spell doesn't really go into detail about how it works. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 3, 2004)

Just a note.... I wilbe going to GenCon SoCal this weekend (yay!  My first con!) so I will not be available this weekend. I will be back on Monday.


----------



## Thanee (Dec 3, 2004)

Have fun! 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Citizen Mane (Dec 3, 2004)

Good deal.  Have fun.


----------



## Serpenteye (Dec 3, 2004)

Yes, have fun. Be safe.


----------



## deadestdai (Dec 4, 2004)

Gah! You and my good friend ferretguy and that bugger Uriel!? 

I feel so left out right now. *sniffle*


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 10, 2004)

RL has been crazy busy with end-of-the-quarter madness after I got back from GenCon. Before I knew it, it was already Thursday and great cats!  where did all that time go? So I'm terribly sorry about the lag but at I finally got the next post up.


----------



## Ashy (Dec 10, 2004)

No prob, Seph!  Great post!    Hey - BTW, what do you use to make the maps?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 10, 2004)

I use Excel. I modified the width and height settings for cells to make the grid and then use the draw function for everything else. Moving the characters around for each new round is very easy (I can just drag them to wherever I want), as is adding new elements.

Once I'm done, I take a screen capture of it and use a graphics program to crop and create an optimized .jpeg file. It makes for a very basic-looking map, but hey, it gets the job done!


----------



## Thanee (Dec 10, 2004)

Uhm... Ashy, if your intention is to flank, you should not move Burrow to Zoe's side... 

F4 would be more appropriate... (Zoe would then move to H6 into flanking position).
Actually, since Zoe acts before Burrow, I'll just do that... step to H6. 

In any case Burrow must move more than 5 ft. and so cannot full attack (just attack). 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 10, 2004)

Uh, actually, if Burrow moved into F4, he still wouldn't flank with Zoe if she was in the H6 position... though he would flank with Donner. (If you draw a line from the center of H6 to F4, it doesn't pass through opposite borders of the creature's space, so those two squares don't flank each other.)

I don't think there's a single 5' step Zoe could take that would let her flank with someone, unless someone moves somewhere onto line 3.


----------



## Thanee (Dec 10, 2004)

Oh, yeah, we would only flank a square, but not the whole... well. 

If Burrow moves to F4 we can at least flank next round. Didn't figure it in, anyways.


@Ferrix: Sorry, _Align Weapon_ was swapped out in a last minute decision for _Aid_. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 10, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> @Ferrix: Sorry, _Align Weapon_ was swapped out in a last minute decision for _Aid_.



D'oh!


----------



## Ferrix (Dec 10, 2004)

For _Aid_?

I don't...

*sigh*


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Dec 10, 2004)

Man I am _so_ glad I took those planar substitution levels...


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## Ashy (Dec 10, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> I use Excel. I modified the width and height settings for cells to make the grid and then use the draw function for everything else. Moving the characters around for each new round is very easy (I can just drag them to wherever I want), as is adding new elements.
> 
> Once I'm done, I take a screen capture of it and use a graphics program to crop and create an optimized .jpeg file. It makes for a very basic-looking map, but hey, it gets the job done!




Hurm...  Looks like I need to play with excel a bit tonight....    How do you label the grid?  (i.e. the x and y axis....)


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## Ashy (Dec 10, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Oh, yeah, we would only flank a square, but not the whole... well.
> 
> If Burrow moves to F4 we can at least flank next round. Didn't figure it in, anyways.
> 
> ...




Er...okay - so who is moving where?  I'm confused...


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## Ferrix (Dec 10, 2004)

Ashy, you have e-mail.


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## Thanee (Dec 10, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> Er...okay - so who is moving where?  I'm confused...




Well, if your intention is to flank, F4 is probably the best bet and next round 5 ft. step to G3.

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Dec 10, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> For _Aid_?
> 
> I don't...
> 
> *sigh*




Hey, what's wrong with _Aid_. 

This part here makes the spell a lot less useful:



> This spell has no effect on a weapon that already has an alignment.




Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 10, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> This part here makes the spell a lot less useful:
> 
> 
> > This spell has no effect on a weapon that already has an alignment.



Hmmm... well, isn't that exactly Donner's problem? The fact that his weapon has _no_ alignment?


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## Thanee (Dec 10, 2004)

Of course, but it makes the spell too rarely useful with the small selection a FS gets. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 10, 2004)

Only if she has a holy weapon or some such... which of course, Zoe does have.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 10, 2004)

Ashy said:
			
		

> Hurm...  Looks like I need to play with excel a bit tonight....    How do you label the grid?  (i.e. the x and y axis....)



Ehr... those are just the column (ABC) and row (123) labels that normally appear across the top and to the left side when you open any Excel document.... at least, in my version of Excel (I'm using Excel X on a Mac). I'm pretty darn sure they show up in the Windows too, if you use a PC.

See this screenshot of a typical Excel spreadsheet


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 10, 2004)

Incidentally, I use a row height of 30 and a column width of 4 (with the default text set at Verdana 10) to get those squares. I don't know if those numbers will work for you though. My advice would be to set the column width first, and then incrementally adjust the row height to match as needed.


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## Thanee (Dec 10, 2004)

> Ghost took an AoO at Vlad as he moved, doing 3 points of damage and draining 2 points of Con with a claw.



 I'd just remove that part (including the description) and the damage from it. Doesn't really change anything in the flow of combat.

 Or just use it for this round... as Vlad does provoke an AoO this time from moving out of the threatened area (why not just take a 5 foot step back, anyways?).


 BTW, shouldn't Vlad be at 61 max hps instead of 57?

   Bye
   Thanee


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## Ashy (Dec 10, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Incidentally, I use a row height of 30 and a column width of 4 (with the default text set at Verdana 10) to get those squares. I don't know if those numbers will work for you though. My advice would be to set the column width first, and then incrementally adjust the row height to match as needed.




COOL!  Thanks for the tips!

Also, I posted my changes in the IC thread.


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## Citizen Mane (Dec 10, 2004)

Why not a five foot step?  I wanted to get back farther now and was willing to take the damage.  Nothing good was going to happen where Vlad was standing once he found out his chain didn't work.


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## Thanee (Dec 10, 2004)

I see. 

I doubt, that the fiend is going to follow Vlad, tho.
There are enough of us right next to it already. 

But who knows... maybe the _Magic Missile_ enrages it even further. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Citizen Mane (Dec 11, 2004)

Could be.    It might be the most effective spell I have against a ghost right now (or, at least for this round).

Nick


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## Thanee (Dec 11, 2004)

At the very least you will probably save Burrow from an AoO this round... unless the fiend has Combat Reflexes. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Citizen Mane (Dec 11, 2004)

That's Vlad for you, always willing to sacrifice himself for the good of others...  

Nick


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 13, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> BTW, shouldn't Vlad be at 61 max hps instead of 57?



Oops. Yes, he should. I have no idea where that number came from since his max is 61 in my notes...  Thanks for catching it, Thanee!

Will correct that post-haste.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 13, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> At the very least you will probably save Burrow from an AoO this round... unless the fiend has Combat Reflexes.



Heh... funny, you should mention that...


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## Thanee (Dec 13, 2004)

> but the first swing goes wide as an unseen root catches her foot



 Shhh... Zoe has _Freedom of Movement_ running. 

 (j/k I know you just rolled one terribly low roll for her first attack probably. )

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 13, 2004)

Uhhh, yup. Rolled a 1. 

If you looked in the text below the initiative order, I list all the attack and weapon damage rolls I make for the characters (along with a number of other assorted stuff). 

The format usually goes something like this: roll + modifier - conditional penalty = total result. Regardless, the first number of anything like that I post is always the unmodified roll on the dice.


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## Thanee (Dec 13, 2004)

I actually noticed that myself later... wrote that posting before I finished reading. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Dec 14, 2004)

> _OOC: Aw, screw it, we're dropping out of initiative. It'll get too messy trying to keep this in rounds._



 Yep, it's also kinda pointless, if there is no opponent around (tho, the ghost probably is around still). 

 About Knowledge (arcane): Yep, there is noone (cept Vlad maybe) who has any reason to know much about the arcane. Zoe has it as a class skill, but that wouldn't fit very well.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Thanee (Dec 15, 2004)

> But common sense really did point out that the bed had to die.




This is sooo very wrong! 

Bye
Thanee


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## deadestdai (Dec 15, 2004)

Hardly. That bed was evil - Flaust "knew" it.


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## Ashy (Dec 15, 2004)

You are sooooo my new hero, 'Dai!!!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 16, 2004)

Flaust just cracks me up!


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## Thanee (Dec 16, 2004)

Flaust... crack... yes, that sounds about right! 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Citizen Mane (Dec 16, 2004)

Poor, dour Vlad.  What has he done to be deserving of her taunts?  

(I agree, though, Flaust's a riot.  Cool character.)

Nick


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## Thanee (Dec 17, 2004)

Isida, there is no next room on the left (there are only two, the library and the laboratory). 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Dec 17, 2004)

My other left.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 27, 2004)

Hello! I hope everyone's been having wonderful holidays so far!  My updates for this adventure may be rather sporadic/slower than usual over the next week or so (at least until after New Years) but not entirely absent. I wish everyone a safe and Happy New Year!


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## Citizen Mane (Dec 27, 2004)

No worries.  Happy New Year to you, too.


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## deadestdai (Dec 27, 2004)

Tis okay, I've been getting used to my new baby boy being born last Thursday. So responses might not be as frequent as they once were too.


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## Citizen Mane (Dec 27, 2004)

New baby boy?  That's wicked cool.


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## deadestdai (Dec 27, 2004)

Yeah, and bloody cute to boot! ^_^


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## Thanee (Dec 27, 2004)

Congratulations. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jan 5, 2005)

....And then the portal emits a deep belching noise... Wait, that wasn't a _real_ portal, it was one of them dreaded portal mimics!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jan 5, 2005)

Well, it's been about 3 months or so since the game's started so I thought I'd just check in with you guys on how happy you are with the adventure. Is my pacing too fast? Too slow? (I can slow the game down, but I'm not sure how much faster I can speed it up, especially since I can't consistently post everyday...) Not enough combat? (I can't imagine there's been _too much_ combat but you never know with people...) Problems with how I run combat? Too many bad DM attempts to be entertaining, albeit (hopefully) in an understated sort of way? NPCs and challenges bland and boring? My grammer sucks? Something else?

Of course I would love for everyone to tell me I'm doing just fine, and I hope I am doing just that, but I would also like for you all to enjoy yourselves and if there's something I can change or do to make this better, please let me know!  I can't promise I'll be able to pull it all off, but I will try.


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## Citizen Mane (Jan 5, 2005)

All good so far.


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## Serpenteye (Jan 5, 2005)

I'm happy. Most of my time goes to the IR, but I'm still around ready to step in when you need me.


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## Ashy (Jan 5, 2005)

Doing great!!!  I'm having a blast - please keep it up!


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## deadestdai (Jan 6, 2005)

Defnately up there with my fav' ever games Seph'! 

The pace is just right, the content is fun and umm.... More magical items for everyone! (Especially that Flaust girl - I've heard she's very nice and good and deserves them more than those other skallywags that she has had the poor luck to hang about with....)


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jan 6, 2005)

Glad to hear you're all having fun thus far! 

I'll see what I can do about treasure placement-- I know I've been hitting you guys with some hefty-ish expenses...


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## Thanee (Jan 6, 2005)

You lead us right into poverty. Zoe already had to borrow some money to make it through! 

No need to worry, tho, you're doing great. Very fun! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jan 19, 2005)

On a completely tangential, but not entirely irrelevant note, SW:KotOR is an evil, mind-sucking game....  Fortunately, it is also not a terribly long one. 

I would have posted sooner except I couldn't tear myself away from slaughtering everything in my path saving the Republic.


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## deadestdai (Jan 19, 2005)

Ahh, I see you took the correct paths then young padewan.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jan 20, 2005)

Padawan!? Bow down before me for I am the Dark Lord Revan! 

Uhm, yes. The correct path. Of course...


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Feb 2, 2005)

Sheesh, the gate-town of Torch should probably just be re-named 'Extortion.'


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## Thanee (Feb 2, 2005)

You... if it wouldn't take a full round to swap places with a Bone Devil and then another action to Dimensional Anchor that /&$&%  and _then_ she could still head off with her nightmare... well, that's what Zoe was contemplating (not sure if we know it's a Night Hag or know anything about them either, but I guess it's save to assume, that she has some means to escape, otherwise she would not be so bold, this is the only thing holding Zoe back, basically, as she does not want to risk their mission)... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Feb 3, 2005)

Ehhhh, bloods of your level shouldn't be taking smack from a hag anyway.  Though I'd suggest _dimensional anchoring_ the nightmare first personally.

Besides, how am I suppose to give you guys treasure if you just knuckle in to the demands of every NPC you meet? 

(Badurth was understandable. And Shamiq didn't want anything but your word. But the hag? How do you know she'll even keep her end of the bargain?)


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## Thanee (Feb 3, 2005)

Information is a better weapon than a sword. :\ 

If there was a reasonable chance to hinder them both from fleeing, but that seems hardly possible, especially without knowing what kind of means for escape they have (just going from worst case there ). Therefore Zoe will listen to the terms, as it seems kinda foolish to scare away someone who obviously _has_ this kind of information...

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Feb 4, 2005)

Well, well, with everyone growing so anxious around her, diplomacy won't serve, I guess... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Feb 4, 2005)

Hmm... why does this _Hag_ look so suspiciously like a _stop sign_ on the map, I wonder... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Feb 4, 2005)

> Retreat now, or die by our hands!




Do not promise something, which you cannot hold...
There will be no retreat for the hag...



Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Feb 5, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Hmm... why does this Hag look so suspiciously like a stop sign on the map, I wonder...



Uhm, well 'cause she is...?  

Actually, I only noticed that after you pointed it out but I have to admit... the resemblence is striking...


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## Thanee (Feb 5, 2005)

About the summon spells, isn't it better to decide the specifics in the next round, when the creatures appear? Just together with the next round's action declaration seems reasonable enough and allows to accomodate for any changes, that happened during the round of casting.

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Feb 11, 2005)

I deeply apologize for my abrupt disappearance this last week but was pulled away by an unexpected family crisis. The bad news is, it's still not yet resolved so I'm not going to have time to post updates for the games I'm in.  The good news is, I will hopefully be back in action sometime mid to late next week.  Again, I apologize for making people wait and I hope to be back soon.


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## Citizen Mane (Feb 11, 2005)

No worries.  Take care of yourself.

Nick


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## Ashy (Feb 11, 2005)

My prayers are with you...  Going through familiy issues of my own right now.


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## Thanee (Feb 11, 2005)

Yep, fully understandable. Thanks for letting us know!

Bye
Thanee


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## deadestdai (Feb 11, 2005)

Take care of business Seph', we'll be here waiting for you when things are well again your end.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Feb 11, 2005)

Yup yup, real life is important, you take all the time you need, we'll be here when you get back.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Mar 4, 2005)

Sephiroth?  Is everything ok?


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## deadestdai (Mar 4, 2005)

I hope so.... :/


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## deadestdai (Mar 20, 2005)

Here's hoping that Seph managed to sort stuff out and letting all know that this game is worth waiting for. 

Other news


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## deadestdai (Apr 11, 2005)

Any news on Seph's status?


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## Ashy (Jul 13, 2005)

I've got some sad news gang - I'm going to have to drop this game.  This site has been blocked from my work, and I simply do not have time to post from home in the evenings.  Sorry, but I wish it were not the case just as much as you.


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