# Polearm Feats



## Istar (Jan 31, 2011)

any feats that let you do cool stuff with a polearm.

bit of a polearm virgin


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## DracoSuave (Jan 31, 2011)

The thing with polearms is they all have a second weapon type.  So feat support isn't strictly important with polearms themselves.

I personally like the paragon-level combo of Polearm Gamble and Heavy Blade Opportunity, particularily on a fighter.  That's just a one-stop shop of 'ruin my enemy's day'


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## ShaggySpellsword (Jan 31, 2011)

Heroic:
Hafted Defense (+1 AC and Reflex with a Polearm)
Polearm Momentum (Fighter Feat; Knock opponent prone if you push/slide 2 or more with a polearm)
There's another one (name I can't remember) that lets you flank from reach with a polearm.
And yet another one (name I can't remember) that lets you charge adjacent with a polearm.

Paragon:
Spear Push (+1 push with spear or polearm)
Polearm Gamble (OA against an enemy that moves adjacent BUT you grant CA)

Beyond that, if you are using a glaive or halberd, take Heavy Blade or Axe feats.


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## Kingreaper (Jan 31, 2011)

ShaggySpellsword said:


> And yet another one (name I can't remember) that lets you charge adjacent with a polearm.



 Due to the rules update on charging, said feat is redundant. You can charge adjacent with a polearm anyway.


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## twilsemail (Jan 31, 2011)

ShaggySpellsword said:


> Heroic:
> There's another one (name I can't remember) that lets you flank from reach with a polearm.




Polearm Flanker: This feat only applies to your attacks.  You aren't helping other players on their turns.  If you've got a Rogue he'll be sad that he's your flanking buddy but you aren't his.


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## BobTheNob (Jan 31, 2011)

Isnt there also an epic one that lets you treat close burst 1 attacks as close burst 2 (I think, dont have builder in fron of me)

One thing to keep in mind is stat requirements. They can be crazy...a little strength, a little wisdom, a little dex. Try going into character builder, enable view illegal elements, and search for the word "polearm".

p.s. Draco is right, If you are playing a pre-essentials fighter, polearm gamble + hbo is highly frustrating for your opposition. However, If you are going to go polearm gamble, also consider Uncanny dodge (even though you grant combat advantage, disables the +2 bonus everyone gets to hit you)


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## DracoSuave (Feb 1, 2011)

BobTheNob said:


> p.s. Draco is right, If you are playing a pre-essentials fighter, polearm gamble + hbo is highly frustrating for your opposition. However, If you are going to go polearm gamble, also consider Uncanny dodge (even though you grant combat advantage, disables the +2 bonus everyone gets to hit you)




If you have feat slots to spare.

For those two feats, you're an OA-focused fighter with wisdom prereqs... and modest Dexterity requirement.  The Dex Req. is trivial- With a 16-15-14 starting array, putting the 16 in strength, 15 in dex, and 14 in wisdom, and bumping Str and Wisdom as your primary stats, you'll have such a high to hit on the Polearm Gamble that enemies are very unlikely to get close to you... and still qualify for HBO and Heavy Blade Mastery.  There's probably a more mathematically efficient way to distribute it, but I can't be arsed to bother with it.

Given you're generally at 60% to hit as a weapon class (I did the math), fighter adding 5% to that, 35% is your chance to miss with normal attacks.  Blade Opportunist makes that 25%.  Then you actually apply your wisdom, which makes that 15% at level 1, and 10% by level 10.  If you took a Str/Wis race, that's actually 95% base chance to hit with OAs, which is as good as it gets.  When you hit, that enemy is STOPPED.  He does not continue forward.  Seriously, enemies getting close to you to do anything isn't a major concern for a polearm fighter.  Spending feats on a rare occurance (you miss with an OA) isn't a high priority.

Your two powers would be something to continue this gameplan.  Polearms are about control; if you wanted to do the best damage you'd not be going for a reach weapon.


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## Mad Hamish (Feb 1, 2011)

I tend to favour the greatspear as a polearm +3 proficiency and the spear feats give you a lot of options for what you do (ludicrous amounts of forced movement, knocking people over if you move them 2 squares or more, ability to target reflex instead of AC on basic attacks...)


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## DracoSuave (Feb 1, 2011)

Very good points, and a direction I don't usually think of.


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## Aulirophile (Feb 1, 2011)

DracoSuave said:


> Your two powers would be something to continue this gameplan.  Polearms are about control; if you wanted to do the best damage you'd not be going for a reach weapon.



Actually a Dragonborn with Draconic Arrogance can do quite a lot of damage with Polearm Momentum (the stat array is ugly though). Greatspear Barbarians are pretty common as well (particularly with the 1/2/3 untyped bonus to charge damage that Spears gets now)


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## BobTheNob (Feb 1, 2011)

DracoSuave said:


> If you took a Str/Wis race, that's actually 95% base chance to hit with OAs, which is as good as it gets.  When you hit, that enemy is STOPPED.  He does not continue forward. .



Which at-will were you using to stop them? (Im assuming is was an at-will...)


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## Aulirophile (Feb 1, 2011)

BobTheNob said:


> Which at-will were you using to stop them? (Im assuming is was an at-will...)



In the example he's a Fighter. Fighter OA's stop movement as a Class Feature. ^.^


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## BobTheNob (Feb 1, 2011)

Aulirophile said:


> In the example he's a Fighter. Fighter OA's stop movement as a Class Feature. ^.^



Beautiful. Thank you, of course it does.


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## Istar (Feb 1, 2011)

ShaggySpellsword said:


> Heroic:
> Hafted Defense (+1 AC and Reflex with a Polearm)
> Polearm Momentum (Fighter Feat; Knock opponent prone if you push/slide 2 or more with a polearm)
> There's another one (name I can't remember) that lets you flank from reach with a polearm.
> ...




Halberd is Axe, so looking at Axe feats as well.

I hear about this "Greatspear" - what and where is this ?


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## Mad Hamish (Feb 1, 2011)

The Greatspear is a superior weapon polearm/spear added in Adventuror's Vault.


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## Istar (Feb 2, 2011)

Actually Polearm is for a Warden.
Although a Fighter with Polearm Gambit and Heavy Blade Opportunity looks very very tempting.
Especially a Goliath with Reach 2 at level 11.

But Dex for my Warden is poor.
How about these Polearm "Spears".

With a magic weapon you could double up to throw it when you needed to, but how would that work, would it be a ranged basic off Dex.

Or could you get a Spear with a prof. that could do it.

I like Halberd as its Axe which means I have the con / str to get the 19-20 crit range at Epic.

Plus you need Wisdom 15 to get Polearm Gambit at L11.
And I also need Char 13 at Epic to M/C sorcerer to get the L22 Utility "Platinum Scales".


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## Mad Hamish (Feb 2, 2011)

the greatspear can't be thrown as a weapon.

most spear feats need dex (as do quite a few polearm feats iirc) so that could be an issue for you.
to get Polearm Gambit at level 11 if you don't want to put any stat increases into it you  need to start with Wis 14 (it get's +1 at level 11) 

whether the sorceror multiclass is worth it is open to question, Platinum Scales is a huge defensive bonus but it does mean that ignoring your mark and attacking other people becomes the oppositions best tactic for that encounter.


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## Istar (Feb 2, 2011)

Mad Hamish said:


> the greatspear can't be thrown as a weapon.
> 
> most spear feats need dex (as do quite a few polearm feats iirc) so that could be an issue for you.
> to get Polearm Gambit at level 11 if you don't want to put any stat increases into it you need to start with Wis 14 (it get's +1 at level 11)
> ...




I was thinking with Platinum Scales to use it when:

A. I am about to die 
B. They are hammering my NAD and I need some help - rather than taking a whole bunch of epic feats to bolster them.
C. When I have a whole bunch of enemy tied down in difficult terrain zones and immobolised or slowed - its high level so the form that limits flying might be needed.

Plus with no Shield I am about 2 off the AC I should be anyway.
And Platinum Scales I could have up my sleeve instead of armour feats to improve AC.

How about other normal spears that can be thrown, can they give me Reach as well?
If they are thrown is it a ranged basic off Dex ?


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## twilsemail (Feb 2, 2011)

Istar said:


> (Platinum Scales)



The problem with this idea is that for one encounter a day you're no longer a defender.  You're turned into a mediocre striker or controller.  Maybe a Leader if you're a LifeWarden.

I'm not going to go on a rant about defenders with defenses that are too high.  I'll just say that defenders should be a viable target for enemy attacks.  That's why they get so many HPs.  Wardens more than most.



Istar said:


> How about other normal spears that can be thrown, can they give me Reach as well?




There are currently no weapons with both the Reach property and the Heavy Thrown property (or Light Thrown for that matter).



Istar said:


> If they are thrown is it a ranged basic off Dex ?




Those spears that are capable of being thrown have the Heavy Thrown property.  This means that RBAs made with them use Strength instead of Dex.


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## nightwyrm (Feb 2, 2011)

twilsemail said:


> There are currently no weapons with both the Reach property and the Heavy Thrown property (or Light Thrown for that matter).




Magic properties solve everything.  If you want a spear with reach and be throwable, you can get yourself a hungry spear.


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## DracoSuave (Feb 2, 2011)

twilsemail said:


> The problem with this idea is that for one encounter a day you're no longer a defender.  You're turned into a mediocre striker or controller.  Maybe a Leader if you're a LifeWarden.
> 
> I'm not going to go on a rant about defenders with defenses that are too high.  I'll just say that defenders should be a viable target for enemy attacks.  That's why they get so many HPs.  Wardens more than most.




Conversely, if you're not negating hits in some manner, then all you bring to the table is a higher healing surge value.


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## Nemesis Destiny (Feb 2, 2011)

DracoSuave said:


> When you hit, that enemy is STOPPED.  He does not continue forward.   Seriously, enemies getting close to you to do anything isn't a major  concern for a polearm fighter.



Because of the way Polearm Gamble is written, saying that it triggers by a non-adjacent enemy *entering* an adjacent square, wouldn't that mean that the enemy is then next to you when this occurs?

I know this works, as I've heard about it all over the place, but what component am I missing in failing to understand _how_?


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## Aulirophile (Feb 2, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> Because of the way Polearm Gamble is written, saying that it triggers by a non-adjacent enemy *entering* an adjacent square, wouldn't that mean that the enemy is then next to you when this occurs?
> 
> I know this works, as I've heard about it all over the place, but what component am I missing in failing to understand _how_?



OA's interrupt their trigger. Trigger is entering > you attack, he stops before he enters the square because the OA happens before the trigger resolves (resolving in this case would be actually entering the square).


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## Nemesis Destiny (Feb 2, 2011)

Aulirophile said:


> OA's interrupt their trigger. Trigger is entering > you attack, he stops before he enters the square because the OA happens before the trigger resolves (resolving in this case would be actually entering the square).



Wow. That's cheesy.

I haven't played a character with many Interrupts yet, so I was a little fuzzy on the actual application.


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## Aulirophile (Feb 2, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> Wow. That's cheesy.
> 
> I haven't played a character with many Interrupts yet, so I was a little fuzzy on the actual application.



Eh. It doesn't work till Paragon. Would you like a mathematical breakdown of how many Paragon+ monsters have Reach, which nullifies the whole thing? Answer: a lot. Or multi-square shifts. Or.

PG is good, but it is hardly cheesy.


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## DracoSuave (Feb 3, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> Wow. That's cheesy./QUOTE]
> 
> I would hesitate to call 'How the weapon and class is designed' cheesy.  It's effective, but as the above noted, it's not unstoppable.  Many monsters have other ways to get around it too.  You're not adjacent, so Combat Challenge doesn't get as much of a work.


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## Nemesis Destiny (Feb 3, 2011)

It's known as _"Polearm Cheese_" for a reason, isn't it?

I wasn't suggesting that it should get the nerf bat (because that would be silly), but yes, it seems damned effective, situation depending.


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## Aulirophile (Feb 3, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> It's known as _"Polearm Cheese_" for a reason, isn't it?
> 
> I wasn't suggesting that it should get the nerf bat (because that would be silly), but yes, it seems damned effective, situation depending.



Because people think things are cheesy even when they aren't, and they don't look at the opportunity cost.

Basically people like simplifying things and having opinions, but looking at facts and considering all the complexities of a situation results in a real answer.


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## Nemesis Destiny (Feb 3, 2011)

Aulirophile said:


> Because people think things are cheesy even when they aren't, and they don't look at the opportunity cost.
> 
> Basically people like simplifying things and having opinions, but looking at facts and considering all the complexities of a situation results in a real answer.



Thanks for the unnecessary lesson in pop psychology.

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

First post in that thread, part way down is a heading entitled "Polearm Cheese." I think that qualifies as the reason that it's called what it is; the users frequenting the boards of the company that made the game call it that.


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## Aulirophile (Feb 3, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> Thanks for the unnecessary lesson in pop psychology.
> 
> Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible
> 
> First post in that thread, part way down is a heading entitled "Polearm Cheese." I think that qualifies as the reason that it's called what it is; the users frequenting the boards of the company that made the game call it that.



_"The power of the combo appears cheesy, but remember that it  comes at a cost, dominating a large number of feat choices and making  for a very MAD build.  Threatening reach makes it worse, but has limited  availability.  Nevertheless, some DMs will have a knee-jerk "nerf!"  reaction."_

Basically people like simplifying things and having opinions, but  looking at facts and considering all the complexities of a situation  results in a real answer.

Your question was "why it is called cheese." It isn't cheesy, at all, so it is a reasonable question. I gave you the correct answer: the majority of people are ignorant and call it that, and the people who know better rarely bother with the hassle of correcting it. Because it results in conversations like this one.


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## Nemesis Destiny (Feb 3, 2011)

So, you parse my innocuous "wow, cheesy" as a "knee-jerk 'nerf!' reaction"?

I guess that's why you keep repeating yourself, because you didn't seem to "get it" the first time.


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## Aulirophile (Feb 3, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> So, you parse my innocuous "wow, cheesy" as a "knee-jerk 'nerf!' reaction"?
> 
> I guess that's why you keep repeating yourself, because you didn't seem to "get it" the first time.



I was quoting the thread you linked. That you didn't actually read. Because you'd rather simplify things and have an opinion, but  looking at facts and  considering all the complexities of a situation  results in a real  answer.

Irony is priceless.


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## Nemesis Destiny (Feb 3, 2011)

Aulirophile said:


> I was quoting the thread you linked. That you didn't actually read. Because you'd rather simplify things and have an opinion, but  looking at facts and  considering all the complexities of a situation  results in a real  answer.
> 
> Irony is priceless.



Irony. You're seeing it where none exists. And you're making an argument out of your own misunderstanding.

In response to now "getting" how Polearm Cheese works, after reading your and Draco's responses, AND that thread, I reply, "wow, cheesy."

Not the same as "knee-jerk 'nerf!'" At all. Where's the ironic part? Never once did I say it was overpowered, should be nerfed, or broken. You are putting words in my mouth, as I've seen you do countless times to others before. You don't even understand what my opinion truly is, let alone be able to suggest that I'd rather just "simplify things and have an opinion" without "considering the complexities."

Polearm Cheese. It's a good trick, when it works, but being not a moron, I can think of a dozen ways around it, even before you oh-so-helpfully suggested some for me.


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## Aulirophile (Feb 3, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> Irony. You're seeing it where none exists. And you're making an argument out of your own misunderstanding.
> 
> In response to now "getting" how Polearm Cheese works, after reading your and Draco's responses, AND that thread, I reply, "wow, cheesy."
> 
> ...



Oh man. 

I didn't say that was your reaction. It is the evaluation of if it is cheesy or not from thread _you linked. _Your thread. My point was had you actually _read _the thread you linked, rather then just quickly trying to find a way to justify calling it "cheese" you'd see that the writers of that thread agree it isn't cheesy. You did this in response to my answer of "people who are ignorant would rather have an opinion, with no basis, and remain ignorant, then go to the effort of realizing the opportunity cost, the trade-offs, and comparing it with other options, because being ignorant is simpler." The irony is you did _exactly that _by not actually reading the thread you linked (while attempting to belittle my answer by calling it "pop psychology").


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## Nemesis Destiny (Feb 3, 2011)

Aulirophile said:


> Oh man.
> 
> I didn't say that was your reaction. It is the evaluation of if it is cheesy or not from thread _you linked. _Your thread. My point was had you actually _read _the thread you linked, rather then just quickly trying to find a way to justify calling it "cheese" you'd see that the writers of that thread agree it isn't cheesy. You did this in response to my answer of "people who are ignorant would rather have an opinion, with no basis, and remain ignorant, then go to the effort of realizing the opportunity cost, the trade-offs, and comparing it with other options, because being ignorant is simpler." The irony is you did _exactly that _by not actually reading the thread you linked (while attempting to belittle my answer by calling it "pop psychology").



I justify calling it "cheese" because it is "cheese" in the colloquial sense. That is precisely WHY I linked that thread. As if to say, "I meant it in the same sense as presented here." Do I really need to explain this _again_? Are you that desperate for a fight on the internet that you will continue to deliberately misunderstand in order to continue this pointless argument?

So yeah, I did actually read the thread. I was reading it while waiting for a response to my question. From someone who isn't you - but that's rather moot at this juncture.

If I'm belittling your answers, it's because you are making assumptions and failing to understand what's being said, and all the while doing it with a very condescending tone.


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