# [Help Given] Buying New Deskop - Now Updated!



## John Crichton (Mar 9, 2007)

Hey all.

So the time has come to get a new desktop.  I have built a few machines in the past with various levels of success.  However, this time around I really don't want to spend the time worrying about doing that.  I want to have a warranty that is not me and am comfortable paying for it.  This would also make my GF happy as she will be using it as well.

So, the problem comes with which company to go with and price.  One of the issues with the current rig is that is is loud and only gets louder the longer it is on.  All that said, this what we want in the new PC:

- It needs to be pretty quiet.  
- Don't mind spending a lot.  I've considered everything in the range of $2500-$5000.
- Customer service is huge.  We are willing to pay a premium to not worry about the system for the next few years.
- Don't need top of the line as I don't play the big FPS or the like.  Games to be played: 4X (CivIV, GalCivII), Tycoon games, Sim Games and a few RTS.  I would also buy a PC exclusive RPG (like Neverwinter Nights 2).  But I have a PS3, 360 & Wii so those are my gaming platforms of choice.
- Will be using the most recent versions of Photoshop, Office Apps and probably some video editing software down the line.
- I typically upgrade every 4-5 years so I don't want to have to upgrade anything in the machine with the exception of possibly more HD space and maybe RAM as needed.
- Already own a Dell 24" wide screen monitor - don't need a new one.

So, I configured an Alienware Area-51 7500 - SLI last night.  Was happy with it and then decided to read around for reviews.  I found that with the huge case and quad-core processors that the machine was loud.  Not cool.  Here are the dimensions:

Height: 19.01”
Width: 9.97”
Depth: 25.02” 
Weight:  52 lbs.

Basically, the thing is a beast.  Yow.  Has 4 case fans and one for each of the videocards (GeForce 8800 GTX).  My config only had one videocard but I wanted the ability to add a second down the line when they get much cheaper as I don't need it now.

I need a little help finding a PC with the requirements I listed above.  I'd be okay with the above Alienware, even with the huge case but the noise is a deterrent.  I'd also like a little help understanding RAID 0 vs 1 and watercooling.  I know a bit about both these things from reading many articles but have no practical experience with them.

If I'm leaving out info needed to make a suggestion, please ask.


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## Mycanid (Mar 9, 2007)

Hmm ... well John I am not sure what to say.

You want advice on who to buy the desktop from? And descriptions of water cooling? And the raid setup explained too?

If your budget is $2500 to $5000 (Yikes!) I don't think you will have much difficulty getting what you want.  And yes ... the reviews I have seen of the Alienware Area-51 7500 also said it was noisy.

Well. The first question that comes to mind immediately is how much are YOU going to upgrade the machine? Or will you want to send it off (or have a tech come) and install things for you?

Other than that ... have you looked at Falcon Northwest and Voodoopc's offerings?


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## Mycanid (Mar 9, 2007)

Almost forgot ... I should add that I have recently been purchasing custom built computers from magicmicro.com and have really liked their work. However, most of the systems have cost around $750. You can find them on ebay and at their own website.

Perhaps worth a look at least?


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## Wystan (Mar 9, 2007)

I would suggest the following site:

www.ibuypower.com

I have bought my last 3 pc's rom them and have no complaints.


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## John Crichton (Mar 9, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Hmm ... well John I am not sure what to say.
> 
> You want advice on who to buy the desktop from? And descriptions of water cooling? And the raid setup explained too?



I should have been more specific here.  Is the water cooling worth it and will it make the system run quieter?  My take is that is should do both but I've read reviews to the contrary.

As for the RAID, I do know about striping and all that.  I guess the question would be is the speed of RAID 0 worth the risk compared to the stability of RAID 1.



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> If your budget is $2500 to $5000 (Yikes!) I don't think you will have much difficulty getting what you want.  And yes ... the reviews I have seen of the Alienware Area-51 7500 also said it was noisy.



Yeah, the budget is high because I'm sick of handling hardware myself and having overheating problems (with no overclocking) and losing Hard Drives.  I've lost 2 in the last few years and it could have been my fault.

I'd rather spend closer to $2500-$3000 but I'll drop more to get what I want which is a quieter running machine.



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> Well. The first question that comes to mind immediately is how much are YOU going to upgrade the machine? Or will you want to send it off (or have a tech come) and install things for you?



If it won't void the warranty, I don't mind upgrading things like RAM or videocards myself.  I can handle that.  

Other than that ... have you looked at Falcon Northwest and Voodoopc's offerings?[/QUOTE]Ooo, forgot about VoodooPC.  I was just @ the Falcon site.  Thanks for the reminder!


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## John Crichton (Mar 9, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Almost forgot ... I should add that I have recently been purchasing custom built computers from magicmicro.com and have really liked their work. However, most of the systems have cost around $750. You can find them on ebay and at their own website.
> 
> Perhaps worth a look at least?





			
				Wystan said:
			
		

> I would suggest the following site:
> 
> www.ibuypower.com
> 
> I have bought my last 3 pc's rom them and have no complaints.



Checking out both sites now.


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## John Crichton (Mar 9, 2007)

The VoodooPC Hexx configuration is looking very attractive right now.  It's pretty small and appears to be quiet while still offering a great amount of power...


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## Mycanid (Mar 9, 2007)

You are looking for the intel platform I take it?


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## John Crichton (Mar 9, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> You are looking for the intel platform I take it?



 Yeah, from what I've been reading it appears to be better than the AMD chips at the moment.


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## Mycanid (Mar 9, 2007)

Well ... I think the Hexx looks nice. You know that VoodooPC has been bought out by HP, yes? Doesn't seem to have hurt their quality any. Just thought you might be interested to know, though.

The configuration I threw together cost a little under $5000 ... which seems to be the upper end of your price range.

Hmm.

Any other considerations?


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## John Crichton (Mar 9, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Well ... I think the Hexx looks nice. You know that VoodooPC has been bought out by HP, yes? Doesn't seem to have hurt their quality any. Just thought you might be interested to know, though.



Oh, really?!  Huh.  I certainly didn't know that.



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> The configuration I threw together cost a little under $5000 ... which seems to be the upper end of your price range.



Yeah, the one I just did was about that.



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> Any other considerations?



Well, it's tough because some of these other places don't have any mention of how loud the machine is.  So I have to rely on user reviews.  I hate having to worry about keeping the thing soft but I just can't stand the noise.  I guess it would be worth it if I was a heavy FPS gamer, but I'm not.


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## Pyrex (Mar 9, 2007)

I guess my first question would be do you really need $2500 worth of PC?

Given your stated goals it sounds like a $1000 Dell would suit your needs.

If you want quiet & smaller, try looking at the various home-theater styled Media Center PC's, they're frequently passively cooled.


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## Thanee (Mar 9, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> range of $2500-$5000.




Buy two or three identical (normal) systems, no customer service in the world can give you that much redundancy and reliability. 

Plus you can invite some friends for a (small) LAN party as a bonus. 

Bye
Thanee


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## IronWolf (Mar 9, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> As for the RAID, I do know about striping and all that.  I guess the question would be is the speed of RAID 0 worth the risk compared to the stability of RAID 1.




I wouldn't run RAID 0 if I were you.  Just not worth the risk in my opinion.  With a RAID0 scenario you have now put yourself in the scenario if 1 of 2 drives die you just lost your OS and any data on that volume.  So you end up with twice the odds that a disk failure will cause data loss, since you now have two disks that if either fail you lose data.  Just not worth the risk at all to me.

Now, if you were really interested in speeding up video editing or something, I might consider a separate RAID0 set just for that.  Then you can hack on video in progress on that RAID0 set and once you have what you want copy the resulting file to a sane storage location.  But this RAID0 set is in addition to a disk for the OS and data.  That way if you lose your RAID0, your data and OS are safe.


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## Mycanid (Mar 9, 2007)

Hey there John ... just thought of something. Have you considered buying a Mac? The Mac Pro is a Quad core Xeon processor. And you can load Windows XP Pro on it via Boot Camp and have a dual booting system. It would be quite a nice machine and about in your price range. Customer service is reputed to be VERY good too.


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## ssampier (Mar 11, 2007)

I really wouldn't worry about RAID for your needs. RAID 1 can be slow and it's only a benefit if one of your drives fail; don't think about doing it as a backup. RAID 0 you are putting all your eggs in one basket. Any drives fail; your data is toast. RAID 5 is better for speed and redudancy, but I haven't seen it on too many consumer systems. 

In my understanding water cooling is the choice to keep your system cool when you overclock your system. If you don't overclock, there's little need for one.

Most of the parts of the consumers systems are similar, but the support--in my mind--is lacking. You want to consider a bouqet vendor, Alienware you mentioned, but there are others, such as Voodoo or Falcon Northwest. They may provide better support than Dell, Gateway, or HP.*

*I am aware that Voodoo is owned by HP and Alienware is owned by Dell.


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## John Crichton (Mar 11, 2007)

Thanks all, again.

I'm certainly leaning towards an Alienware/voodooPC/Falcon Northwest at this point for all the reasons mentioned.  I'm trying to find a balance between size, noise, power and price.  I know that I said up to $5000 could be spent but I'm not willing to just throw that much away if I don't have to.  Ya' know?


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## John Crichton (Mar 11, 2007)

ssampier said:
			
		

> I really wouldn't worry about RAID for your needs. RAID 1 can be slow and it's only a benefit if one of your drives fail; don't think about doing it as a backup. RAID 0 you are putting all your eggs in one basket. Any drives fail; your data is toast. RAID 5 is better for speed and redudancy, but I haven't seen it on too many consumer systems.



Not using RAID sounds like the smart move from the posts here and I also understand now that it's mostly for high-end PC gamers.  That is not me.



			
				ssampier said:
			
		

> In my understanding water cooling is the choice to keep your system cool when you overclock your system. If you don't overclock, there's little need for one.



Ah, good to know.  I don't plan on overclocking anything.


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## John Crichton (Mar 11, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Hey there John ... just thought of something. Have you considered buying a Mac? The Mac Pro is a Quad core Xeon processor. And you can load Windows XP Pro on it via Boot Camp and have a dual booting system. It would be quite a nice machine and about in your price range. Customer service is reputed to be VERY good too.



Not a bad idea and I'll take it into consideration.


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## Aeolius (Mar 11, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Not a bad idea and I'll take it into consideration.




Then perhaps some links are in order, regarding the Mac Pro , Apple's "Get a Mac" page for switchers, Apple's current OS "Tiger" and next OS "Leopard" , the obligatory Games link, and videoediting with iMovie (part of the iLife suite), Final Cut Express  , or Final Cut Pro


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## IronWolf (Mar 11, 2007)

ssampier said:
			
		

> RAID 1 can be slow and it's only a benefit if one of your drives fail; don't think about doing it as a backup. RAID 0 you are putting all your eggs in one basket. Any drives fail; your data is toast. RAID 5 is better for speed and redudancy, but I haven't seen it on too many consumer systems.




RAID1 can be slower than a single disk - just because the same data needs written to two locations.  But the single disk doesn't provide any fault tolerance.  

RAID5 isn't really high performing in all situations.  It is just a way to get a large amount of  fault tolerant disk space at a reasonable price.  RAID5 sucks at random writes, does well with sequential reads.  Rebuild times can be quite long with RAID5 and you suffer a fair amount of performance impact while the array rebuilds - though a lot of this varies on the size and speed of your disks. 

Here is a link comparing RAID1 and RAID5 with no cache hits:

http://blogs.sun.com/mrbenchmark/entry/raid_1_vs_raid_56

RAID1 smokes RAID5 in every test - sometimes quite substantially.

Now controller cache can have an impact on the performance hit RAID5 takes, there are some graphs later in that series that do show that.

If you want fault tolerance and performance, looking at a RAID10 solution is better - but certainly not practical for consumer systems.

In either case, there is a good bit to know when tuning I/O subsystems - including knowing how the disk array is going to be used.  Most of which is probably overkill for a home PC...


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## ssampier (Mar 11, 2007)

Great links. We have several RAID 5 systems and they perform just terrific for our needs.

I imagine there is a substantial cost difference with RAID10?


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## IronWolf (Mar 11, 2007)

ssampier said:
			
		

> Great links. We have several RAID 5 systems and they perform just terrific for our needs.
> 
> I imagine there is a substantial cost difference with RAID10?




Don't get me wrong.  RAID5 certainly still serves a purpose and will work in a large number of situations.  I still have lots of RAID5 in use on servers I admin - file servers, application servers, even a Terminal Server. 

RAID10 is pretty expensive compared to RAID5.  I use it on an Exchange server and one of our bigger DB servers.  Pretty much you lose 50% of your usable disk by going with RAID10.  So it does come with a cost.  Whether the cost is warranted depends greatly on what role the server is playing and how likely it is to become I/O bound.


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## Mycanid (Mar 12, 2007)

Aeolius said:
			
		

> Then perhaps some links are in order, regarding the Mac Pro , Apple's "Get a Mac" page for switchers, Apple's current OS "Tiger" and next OS "Leopard" , the obligatory Games link, and videoediting with iMovie (part of the iLife suite), Final Cut Express  , or Final Cut Pro




Good collection of links sir Aeolius! Saved some extra work for me! 

Ya know John ... the Mac Pro may not have many graphics card solutions now ... but who knows what they will have with the next OS release? Still the cards they offer are not that bad.... 'Specially the "workstation" nVidia offering.


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## John Crichton (Mar 12, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Good collection of links sir Aeolius! Saved some extra work for me!
> 
> Ya know John ... the Mac Pro may not have many graphics card solutions now ... but who knows what they will have with the next OS release? Still the cards they offer are not that bad.... 'Specially the "workstation" nVidia offering.



 I do like Macs, but I think I am still leaning towards a PC at this point.  I've always planned on staying with PCs until I get more freelance design work.  When and if that happens I plan on getting a Mac specifically for a studio.  We shall see, but for now I'll probably stick with the PC plan.


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## Mycanid (Mar 13, 2007)

Any final decisions yet?


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## John Crichton (Mar 15, 2007)

We finally decided to break down and went with a slightly stripped down Alienware.  We would have actually gotten a Dell 710, but the customer service was severely lacking and they didn't want to give us enough credit for their no-interest promo.  Odd considering we got approved for almost double from Alienware who have an even better no-interest promo going right now.

The Alienware rep was very helpful, answered all questions easily.  The best thing about the purchase is that I'll easily be able to upgrade the videocards (has the SLI slots and power supply already in there), RAM to 4GB later and there is a 4-year in-home and all that fancy warranty stuff on it.  We certainly paid a large premium (just over $4000 before taxes & shipping) but for both of us it's worth it as both our last systems were DYI and we're sick of not having a real warranty on our main workstations.

Went with the following configuration:

*Processor:* Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme QX6700 2.66GHz 8MB Cache 1066MHz FSB
*Operating System:* Windows® Vista Home Premium
*Motherboard:* Alienware® Approved NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI Motherboard
*Memory*: 2GB Low Latency DDR2 Performance SDRAM at 800MHz - 2 x 1024MB
*System Drive:* Single Drive Configuration - 500GB Serial ATA
*DVD ROM:* 18X Dual Layer DVD±RW/CD-RW Burner w/ Nero Software
*Graphics Processor:* 512MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 7950 GT
*Power Supply:* Alienware® 1000 Watt Multi-GPU Approved Power Supply

It should be noted that once the Dell option when out the window I called the AW rep for case-related questions and then decided to buy.  I will also admit that I've wanted an Alienware for quite a while so that did weigh on the choice a bit.  The future-proofing also played a big part.  My next choice would have been a VoodooPC, BTW.  But the cost was getting way up there for the config I wanted.

The unit should be here before the end of the month and I'll post a review.  Thanks to all for the advice!  ENworld sold me a Dell, but they weren't sellin'.  

Of course they got my money anyway as they own *Alienware* but you get the idea...


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## xmanii (Mar 15, 2007)

Looks nice, except for the Vista bit.


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## John Crichton (Mar 15, 2007)

xmanii said:
			
		

> Looks nice, except for the Vista bit.



 It would have actually cost extra to get XP.

Crazy.


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## xmanii (Mar 15, 2007)

Spending that much, I probably would have went with XP.


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## John Crichton (Mar 15, 2007)

Is there something really bad about Vista for a new PC that I need to know about?  I understand it's not all the different from XP and most of the driver issues have been worked out.


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## drothgery (Mar 15, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Is there something really bad about Vista for a new PC that I need to know about?  I understand it's not all the different from XP and most of the driver issues have been worked out.




Only in the minds of the Microsoft/DRM paranoid conspiracy theorists.


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## John Crichton (Mar 15, 2007)

That's what I thought.  I read around and the only issues that came up were videocard driver problems which were solved over a month ago.


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## TwistedBishop (Mar 15, 2007)

Just curious, if you're not into PC gaming why get such a powerful PC?  Do you work in the video or graphical field?


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## John Crichton (Mar 15, 2007)

TB - 

I do some PC gaming.  It is too powerful for what I do now, but possibly not what I'll be playing a year or so from now.  Civ IV certainly benefited from me having a pretty good system at the time.  And I have been not buying a few other games because my old rig was so unstable. It wasn't bad at all (256MB videocard, 1GB RAM, P4 3.2ghz) but it still chugged at times when I had a bunch of programs open.  And rather than try and fix it myself (again!) I figured that I use it enough to get something a bit better than I normally build.

Aside from that, I do freelance graphic design work (using mostly Adobe progs).  I haven't taken active work for about 4 years.  As of about a month ago, I'm going to take a few jobs and work with a programmer friend of mine and see where it goes.  That and I know I'll want a new videocam soon and will want to do some editing.  This machine should have me covered for at least the length of the extended warranty and then some without *having* to upgrade.  I've spend so much over the years replacing dead hardware, upgrading the machine that I just snapped.

I guess the bottom line is that I want it to do whatever I want, when I want and not have to even think of upgrades for years down the line.


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## Thanee (Mar 15, 2007)

As much as I dislike the thought, I would definitely get Vista today, mostly because you will need it in the future, anyways, once DX10 becomes more widely used. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Jeremy (Mar 15, 2007)

That looks very similar to the 7500 I just bought from Alienware.  Bottom line I had the thing for about 6 days total and had to ask for a refund.  Be it the beta video drivers for the 8800 video card or just plain Vista, it blue screened on my constantly.  I spent the first 3 days trying to fix it myself, the next 2 days doing everything every tech they had suggested til they asked me to send it back.  Sent it back, got it back again in about 2 weeks, not the same problems, but just as many different ones.  I just wanted to play World of Warcraft and Dawn of War on it and I never got to do that for more than 21 minutes before crashing.  Not willing to dump another 70 hours troubleshooting it again I told them to take it back as they had assured me it would be fixed when I got it back and it wasn't.

I was, and am, very upset.  I'm out the shipping both ways, I'm out 15% of the cost to "restocking fees", and I'm back with my old computer.  Which is a 6 year old Alienware that I have never had any problems with it's just it's 6 years old and I want more fire power.

I wish you much better luck with yours than I had.


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## John Crichton (Mar 15, 2007)

OMG

I hope that is one of those horror stories of everything going wrong.  

And I am sorry to hear that you got screwed, Jeremy.


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## Thanee (Mar 15, 2007)

Sorry to hear that, Jeremy. Wish you better luck with your next PC. 

Our Vista test PC at work works just fine. Of course, it's not a gaming machine. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Jeremy (Mar 15, 2007)

Yeah, our Vista test box works passably but it's bare minimum specs.  I have to guess this was a hardware issue because rather than just send it back initially the second time I formatted it and installed a copy of XP off one of our dead laptops.  Still couldn't install or run WoW.  I was crushed.

Especially because the 21 minutes I got WoW to run in Vista in compatibility mode were so breathtaking.  It's my personal opinion that whoever Alienware has outsourced all their system building and tech support to are not the same caliber as the ones I originally bought my older system from.

I hope your experience is the opposite end of the spectrum, and given the extremely good performance of my last Alienware machine and all their glowing reviews I have to believe that this box was the exception and not the rule.


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## ssampier (Mar 16, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Is there something really bad about Vista for a new PC that I need to know about?  I understand it's not all the different from XP and most of the driver issues have been worked out.




_Bad_, not really; just really new. Basically there's bound to be issues that will be eventually be ironed out (like they were with XP Sp1 and Sp2 and Win98 Second Edition before it). You may have no trouble or may have alot, time will tell.


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## Mycanid (Mar 19, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> We finally decided to break down and went with a slightly stripped down Alienware.  We would have actually gotten a Dell 710, but the customer service was severely lacking and they didn't want to give us enough credit for their no-interest promo.  Odd considering we got approved for almost double from Alienware who have an even better no-interest promo going right now.
> 
> The Alienware rep was very helpful, answered all questions easily.  The best thing about the purchase is that I'll easily be able to upgrade the videocards (has the SLI slots and power supply already in there), RAM to 4GB later and there is a 4-year in-home and all that fancy warranty stuff on it.  We certainly paid a large premium (just over $4000 before taxes & shipping) but for both of us it's worth it as both our last systems were DYI and we're sick of not having a real warranty on our main workstations.
> 
> ...




A VERY nice looking machine John! I DO hope everything goes okay with it for you. 

I have a friend (who just moved to Sacramento) who is a solid gamer and who SWEARS by Alienware. I like their machines, but to be honest I never really liked their design "look"!   

May you have many years of trouble-free computing!


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## John Crichton (Mar 20, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> A VERY nice looking machine John! I DO hope everything goes okay with it for you.



* crosses fingers! *



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> I have a friend (who just moved to Sacramento) who is a solid gamer and who SWEARS by Alienware. I like their machines, but to be honest I never really liked their design "look"!



Yeah, the overwhelming response to long-time owners is huge.  I'm banking on that to continue.


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## ssampier (Mar 21, 2007)

Let know how everything turns out.

I remember our first modern family computer. I am young, so this is in 1995. The PC was, unfornately, a Packard Bell and cost $2200 (of course the average PC was $3k). I'm sure others can share stories of buying their first 1MB RAM or 10MB Hard Drive.

Amazing what computer you can get for the money now.


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## Mycanid (Mar 21, 2007)

drothgery said:
			
		

> Only in the minds of the Microsoft/DRM paranoid conspiracy theorists.




To be fair these are not the ONLY ones who do not like it. There are others with (to my mind) quite reasonable quips about the present state of the OS ... SteelWind comes to mind as one who had some good insights into the weaknesses of the OS as it is presently.

But like ssampier pointed out, the OS will undoubtedly change a bit over time with the SP's and such.

All said and done, I personally would have still gone with the Mac and put two OS's on it.    Then again - I am not the one buying the machine!   

Keep us posted if you are interested to do so ... I would be curious to hear your experience with Alienware....


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## Mycanid (Mar 21, 2007)

ssampier said:
			
		

> Let know how everything turns out.
> 
> I remember our first modern family computer. I am young, so this is in 1995. The PC was, unfornately, a Packard Bell and cost $2200 (of course the average PC was $3k). I'm sure others can share stories of buying their first 1MB RAM or 10MB Hard Drive.
> 
> Amazing what computer you can get for the money now.




[giggles to himself]

Our first family computer was a Commodore 64!   

Sorry for the thread hijack here folks ....


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## John Crichton (Mar 21, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> [giggles to himself]
> 
> Our first family computer was a Commodore 64!
> 
> Sorry for the thread hijack here folks ....



 Sweet.

I still have fond memories of our *free with new banking account* Apple II GS.  Wow, I wrote my first short stories on that thing...


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## satori01 (Mar 21, 2007)

Good luck on the computer John!  I have a 3 year old Alienware and my experience with Alienware customer service once you get past the initial buying stage is poor.  It is not uncommon for their computers to arrive and either not function due to seating issues with the video card/ MB and for that lovely case to be damaged in transit.

Now my problems w/ Alienware were before they were purchased by Dell, but after being called some choice words by a supposed Alienware VP I would not buy from them again.


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## John Crichton (Mar 21, 2007)

The good news is that the machine is scheduled to arrive Friday.  Sweet.  Can't wait to dig in.



			
				satori01 said:
			
		

> Good luck on the computer John!  I have a 3 year old Alienware and my experience with Alienware customer service once you get past the initial buying stage is poor.  It is not uncommon for their computers to arrive and either not function due to seating issues with the video card/ MB and for that lovely case to be damaged in transit.



Uh oh.  Crossing fingers again.



			
				satori01 said:
			
		

> Now my problems w/ Alienware were before they were purchased by Dell, but after being called some choice words by a supposed Alienware VP I would not buy from them again.



Would you care to elaborate?


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## Wystan (Mar 21, 2007)

Please tell more.


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## Seonaid (Mar 22, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> I like their machines, but to be honest I never really liked their design "look"!



Tell me about it. When he first showed it to me, my reaction was, "Oh my goodness it's ugly!" But if it does everything it's supposed to, I don't care. I'll be happy with it. 


			
				John Crichton said:
			
		

> I still have fond memories of our *free with new banking account* Apple II GS. Wow, I wrote my first short stories on that thing...



That does bring back memories . . . Good times. Man . . .

 - Seonaid, the girlfriend


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## Mycanid (Mar 22, 2007)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Tell me about it. When he first showed it to me, my reaction was, "Oh my goodness it's ugly!" But if it does everything it's supposed to, I don't care. I'll be happy with it.




Believe you me ma'am ... these machines DO work ... or at least do from all the reviews I have read and from the observations I have done of my friend using his - he got a desktop several years ago and a laptop a few years back.

But ... you know that of course!    I'm just chattering ... mmm ... a GREAT cup of coffee this morning.


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## Seonaid (Mar 23, 2007)

Well, it should arrive within the next 19 hours, which means I'll get to use it in about . . . 4 days, so I'll update you then.  And I'm sure JC will be posting about it, too, if he can come up for air.


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## John Crichton (Mar 23, 2007)

And "The Beast" has arrived!  

Damn case is huge but pretty quiet.  Vista booted up with no problems.  I love the Vista interface.  Much better than XP.

I am in the process of moving files at the moment.  The cool part is surfing the net, listening to iTunes & doing all the file transferring (as well as a few minor installs here and there) is not slowing this thing down at all.

More updates as I do more...


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## Mycanid (Mar 23, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> And "The Beast" has arrived!
> 
> Damn case is huge but pretty quiet.  Vista booted up with no problems.  I love the Vista interface.  Much better than XP.
> 
> ...




Impatiently waits, tapping his roots.

Also ... I had not idea that you and Seonaid were ... married? together? interested? etc., etc.

That's great! A gaming spouse is usually WAY easier to live with than a non-gaming one.

Hope the pc is as successful!


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## John Crichton (Mar 23, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Impatiently waits, tapping his roots.



Okay, anything I should test that will really push this thing?  Any progs you wanna know about?



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> Also ... I had not idea that you and Seonaid were ... married? together? interested? etc., etc.



Living together.  



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> That's great! A gaming spouse is usually WAY easier to live with than a non-gaming one.
> 
> Hope the pc is as successful!



Thanks!  And yeah, I am a lucky SOB.


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## Mycanid (Mar 23, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Okay, anything I should test that will really push this thing?  Any progs you wanna know about?




Yes - a SuperPi benchmark, an Everest Result, an HDTune result, a 3DMark06 Result and Comparison, and a PCMark05 result!

For some general ideas of what sort of info this will show you can go to here:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3586&review=Alienware+m5790

This is a recent review of an Alienware laptop, but it will give you the sort of things I have in mind.

Also, SiSoft Sandra has a lot of interesting benchmark tests....



> Thanks! And yeah, I am a lucky SOB.




I still remember her thread from back around Halloween ... where she was thinking of dressing up as a beaten up Chun Li (she had a hurt leg, if I remember rightly) ... and I thought to myself "This sounds like a pleasant young lady!" 

Hoorah!

And about those tests....


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## Seonaid (Mar 23, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Yes - a SuperPi benchmark, an Everest Result, an HDTune result, a 3DMark06 Result and Comparison, and a PCMark05 result!



Whew! Thanks for the link and suggestions. We'll let ya know how it goes. 


> I still remember her thread from back around Halloween ... where she was thinking of dressing up as a beaten up Chun Li (she had a hurt leg, if I remember rightly) ... and I thought to myself "This sounds like a pleasant young lady!"



Damn, you've got a good memory! I ended up not doing anything for Halloween. But if I do something this year, I'll post pics if it's gaming-related.


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## Mycanid (Mar 23, 2007)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Whew! Thanks for the link and suggestions. We'll let ya know how it goes.  .... Damn, you've got a good memory! I ended up not doing anything for Halloween.




  Oh ... uhh ... thank you. But do post the tests and links. Poor John!   Well ... we'll see how it all works out. Must admit to being curious.

He was one of the ones who was most interested (i.e. via forum post feedback) on my review of the iRiver H10 mp3 player some months back. From these primarily I got the impression that he can be quite thorough about technology assessment ... so ... well, you see the rest in the previous posts!



			
				Seonaid said:
			
		

> But if I do something this year, I'll post pics if it's gaming-related.




Feel free!


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## John Crichton (Mar 26, 2007)

Okay, here are the testing results:

SuperPi - 20s @ 1M
3DMark06 - 5758 
PCMark05 - 8241 
HD Tune - see attachment
Everest - click for results


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## ssampier (Mar 27, 2007)

*jealous much*


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## Mycanid (Mar 27, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Okay, here are the testing results:
> 
> SuperPi - 20s @ 1M
> 3DMark06 - 5758
> ...




WOW.   

Sir ... you have yerself a nice machine.

Many thanks!


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## John Crichton (Mar 27, 2007)

Took forever to figure out the simplest test of all, the SuperPi.  I knew what it was doing but for some reason I couldn't connect that the benchmark was 1 million.  Heh.

3DMark & PCMark required patching to even work on Vista.  Not a big deal but it did annoy me.  I can't tell if the HD Tune results are good or not.  And Everest is certainly TMI.


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## John Crichton (Mar 28, 2007)

Just an ongoing update:

I got the BSoD last night, twice.  Both times due to software conflicts.  Very annoying.  Both were different and the second rebooted before I had a chance to write down the error code.

I'm planning on playing a few games tonight to test things out for the first time.  Just some 4X stuff, but still...


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## Mycanid (Mar 29, 2007)

rassa frassa!   

You did not cash out such an amount to purchase BSoD's!

 

Hope it is just a temp thing.

One thing you might consider, if you have not already, is getting all the MS patches. A few of the ones they released in the past month or so were directly aimed at trying to prevent the BSoD.


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## John Crichton (Mar 29, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> rassa frassa!
> 
> You did not cash out such an amount to purchase BSoD's!



I was *so* pissed.

Luckily, it hasn't happened since and I didn't loose anything important that I was working on.  And the errors were different and apparently software related, as opposed to hardware related which would be a bigger deal.  Like if the MB or processor was overheating.



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> One thing you might consider, if you have not already, is getting all the MS patches. A few of the ones they released in the past month or so were directly aimed at trying to prevent the BSoD.



Yup, I did a slew of updates last night and will do more as I go along.  It is a little annoying that some of the older software doesn't have patches yet and may never get them.  Still, I really like the interface but will be keeping a close eye on installs just in case.

The good news is that if things really hit a wall, I can always put my service contract with Alienware into effect.


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## Mycanid (Mar 29, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I was *so* pissed.
> 
> Luckily, it hasn't happened since and I didn't loose anything important that I was working on.  And the errors were different and apparently software related, as opposed to hardware related which would be a bigger deal.  Like if the MB or processor was overheating.
> 
> ...




There have been problems with some of the older games performing on dual processors, if I remember correctly.  :\  Hmm....

Well ... service contracts may as well be used if we have them, eh? 

I wish you good luck in this!


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## John Crichton (Mar 29, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> There have been problems with some of the older games performing on dual processors, if I remember correctly.  :\  Hmm....



Yeah, haven't even popped in any games yet.  Didn't get to it last night.



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> Well ... service contracts may as well be used if we have them, eh?



Ja!



			
				Mycanid said:
			
		

> I wish you good luck in this!



My thanks.  Let's hope I don't need further help from the tech folks around here anytime soon for any big probems...


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## Zulithe (Mar 30, 2007)

I just want to chime in on the whole Vista thing. I run Vista Buisiness 32bit on my new machine (amd athlon x2 5200+, 2gig corsair xtreme ram, geforce 8800 gtx (pcie), nforce 590 SLI AMD mobo). This is definitely not a gaming OS in its current state. By its very design nature, even if you tweaked it as best you can, virtually every game will run 10% slower than XP with SP2 because of the way graphics drivers are dealt with in the new OS and its kernel. 

Will future graphics drivers updates remedy this? I guess we'll wait and see. Afterall, the Nvidia ones are barely out of beta. I can't comment on ATI, but from game performance analysis charts I've seen on websites I'd say you ATI owners are in the same boat.

If not for some of the components in my new PC being cutting edge, I imagine gaming in Vista would be near unbearable. 

I also experience BSOD from time-to-time, paritcularly when playing quicktime files and trying to multitask (i don't recommend it!). I love the lynda.com quicktime tutorials but since vista keeps crashing when i'm trying to view one and, say, follow along in Illustrator, i can almost guarantee a crash within 30 minutes. Is it graphics driver related, quicktime related, both, or what, i'm still trying to figure it out.

Then there's teh problem with Aero 'shutting off' when you run certain programs that for whatever reason aren't compatible with it. Realplayer is one. 

Overall I find Vista to be far prettier and than XP, but until they get some conflicts worked out (by SP1 maybe?) I suggest sticking with XP with SP2 applied for reliability and gaming.


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## Thanee (Mar 30, 2007)

What, no Vista Ultimate for _that_ machine?   

Bye
Thanee


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## Jeremy (Mar 30, 2007)

Vista Ultimate = I wonder if we put all the features of business and home premium together if gamers will buy it just because it's at the bottom of the OS dropdown with the biggest number and the word Ultimate after it?

Hmmmm..   Worth a shot!

^_^

((Apologies to any domain administering, F.E.A.R. playing, Auto CAD engineers who might actually need everything in Ultimate))


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## drothgery (Mar 30, 2007)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> Vista Ultimate = I wonder if we put all the features of business and home premium together if gamers will buy it just because it's at the bottom of the OS dropdown with the biggest number and the word Ultimate after it?
> 
> Hmmmm..   Worth a shot!
> 
> ...




More like 'guys who want to use their home PC to hook up to their work network or do some web development, and also play with the media center stuff'. But I'm running Ultimate because I've got an MSDN subscription, otherwise it'd be Business ...


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