# Game Design 112: Wealth



## Radiating Gnome (Jun 3, 2013)

One of the things I've been fascinated about in museums here are there are some of the small, local currencies that crop up here and there. It's something that we rarely see detailed in a D&D game, where money is money, gold pieces are gold pieces, etc.  

My favorite was tavern tokens -- local currency minted in lead or pewter or something else fairly common. They were used to make small change, etc. 

Here's a link to a picture of some: http://www.flickr.com/photos/10662608@N06/941241462/

I like the idea of these local tokens or chits as a sort of stop-gap between national coinage and a barter economy -- and unlike gold or silver coins -- where the value is basically the literal value of the precious metal -- these tokens are actually closer to paper money, where they have a value that's related to what the currency _represents_, rather than what it's actually made of. That lead slug from the Fox & Whistle is worth a lot more than a little slug of lead -- it's worth a large pint, or a bowl of stew. But it's value is very local, too -- it's only good at the Fox & Whistle, don't try to use it down the street at the Toad Whisperer Saloon.  

Trying to add that kind of depth and character to a RPG isn't always worth the effort -- it's a distraction -- but it might be an interesting source of clues -- the way it works in Joe Abecrombie's _Red Country_ (ancient currency becomes a clue).  

-rg


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## Derren (Jun 3, 2013)

I really dislike how wealth is downplayed in most settings.
Wealth has been the driving force for western cultures for centuries and most people strive to acquire wealth. Some with more zeal than others, but finding people who do not want to have more money are rare.
So simply removing, ignoring or even just downplaying the importance of wealth ruins a lot of immersion for me. That is simply not human nature.

I also don't think that balancing wealth is as hard as described here. In a fantasy setting you usually have quite hard limits on how much wealth a character can have, simply by virtue of them having to carry it most of the time. And even when they store it, a lot of "wealth" adventurers acquire does not come in form of coins which can be traded for whatever they want.
And for modern characters, well technology makes money more easily accessible, but allows tracking of illicit income. That spaceship the character stole? He can't really sell it except way below its worth. And constantly selling captured ships will attract attention, attention which goes only away when you spend money on the right things...
It is also important that there are things to spend money on besides the next plus on your weapon. I for example like the Shadowrun system of lifestyle cost and the need to constantly needing to cover your tracks (Its not perfect though). Money should also be a resource and adventures should either require the PCs to invest money upfront or allow them to make it easier when spending money. Thats imo much better than ignoring wealth or keeping it in the background.


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## Ahnehnois (Jun 4, 2013)

I like the d20 Modern approach to wealth. Simple, abstract, and open to GM interpretation. As in real life, I want to spend as little time worrying about money as possible, while having its impact meet my needs as much as possible.


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## Radiating Gnome (Jun 4, 2013)

Ahnehnois said:


> I like the d20 Modern approach to wealth. Simple, abstract, and open to GM interpretation. As in real life, I want to spend as little time worrying about money as possible, while having its impact meet my needs as much as possible.




Yeah, it was a very interesting system.  So many people hated it, though, I imagine most designers are gun shy about using it. But it's certainly more meaningful than I found gold in some games.

-rg


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## Ahnehnois (Jun 4, 2013)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Yeah, it was a very interesting system.  So many people hated it, though, I imagine most designers are gun shy about using it. But it's certainly more meaningful than I found gold in some games.



Agreed on all points.

It's a shame there's never really been a revision of Modern. Wealth is a solid concept, but there are some abuses and some stuff just needs to be rewritten. I think a lot of the detractors simply didn't understand the rules well enough; they needed to be clearer.

That being said, I hate tracking every gold piece, and the idea of an abstraction that takes into account the variety of sources of wealth in the modern world is really appealing to me.


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## Challenger RPG (Jun 10, 2013)

That's very cool,  @_*Radiating Gnome*_ . Thank you for the link and cool info.

  @_*Derren*_ : Well said, I certainly love wealth whenever I'm a player. Being able to get loads of money and buy cool things is always a plus. I guess from a GM and game designing standpoint I always like to take wealth with a grain of salt. I've had some players get their hands on a lot more money than might otherwise be deemed reasonable. How much people can carry is a useful limitation, but I know of one player who won't go anywhere without a wagon and a team of dwarves to carry off his treasure hoards.

  @_*Ahnehnois*_ : I know what you mean about trying not to worry about every little gold piece. I really like the idea of wealth as portrayed in Modern, but I find my players are a little iffy on what exactly it means they can or cannot buy. It's definitely a cool idea, though.


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## Fetfreak (Jun 10, 2013)

I for one didn't like the wealth system. Too abstract for me. I like the player's struggle with coin and making the ends meet. If wealth was less abstract and had better corner stones I might consider it. When I think about coins I like the copper-silver-gold system and the gold comes only from the most important people. In Game of Thrones even lords deal in silver while the commoners use copper. Simple village folk won't even use coin but trade by giving their cheese for the neighbor's meat and so forth. I feel that when players actually earn gold and then latter on pay in gold, is a true mark of success and I make sure every npc pisses their pants or tries to robe them when they hold that gold piece in the air. It's mark of well earned status, something that separates adventuring vagabonds from heroes, at least in the eyes of people.


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## Jhaelen (Jun 10, 2013)

I prefer systems abstracting wealth. Ars Magica is one of them, too. I just don't care much about economics and certainly don't want my rpg sessions to devolve into a trading simulation game.


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## Storminator (Jun 10, 2013)

A tangentially related idea is for buying and selling businesses. How much is a tavern? A bakery? An armory?

You can do a lot of suspect calculations to figure out sales, and profits and such, or you can just estimate from Price to Earnings ration. P/E typically varies between 5 and 20. So multiple your owner's yearly income by the P/E to get a quick and dirty estimate of how much a business costs. You still need to estimate a yearly income, but you can usually get that by feel pretty well. Are things going well? P/E around 20. Time for a fire sale? P/E around 8. PCs intentionally wrecking the neighborhood to drive the price down? Maybe the P/E briefly dips to 3-5. 

PS


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## Argyle King (Jun 10, 2013)

I've found that the easiest way to make a wealth system that works is by creating a game world that works and one in which the characters operate in a way which is consistent with that.  One of the biggest reasons why (I feel) games like D&D run into problems is because PCs are measured on a completely different scale than the rest of the world.  As such, when PCs interact with the world, problems arise.


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## Green Dwarf (Jun 22, 2013)

Ahnehnois said:


> Agreed on all points.
> 
> It's a shame there's never really been a revision of Modern. Wealth is a solid concept, but there are some abuses and some stuff just needs to be rewritten. I think a lot of the detractors simply didn't understand the rules well enough; they needed to be clearer.
> 
> That being said, I hate tracking every gold piece, and the idea of an abstraction that takes into account the variety of sources of wealth in the modern world is really appealing to me.




Agreed x 10. With proper application and a little GM discretion, Wealth was amazingly quick and simple. Having to do accounting in a modern world is just silly when you can get loans, credit cards, property, etc. Not to mention how many bills the players would have.


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## Jedi Master Gunner (Jun 22, 2013)

I am a fan of d20 Modern's Wealth system as well.

When players want to track hard cash I have countered with the need to report quarterly tax estimates, make car payments, pay NPC employees, buy insurance... Some GMs have made us account for everything our players own, down to paying for socks and underwear! In Modern the answer was: you begin with a reasonably sized wardrobe and a place to live. You only needed to account for stuff that have a mechanical value.

Accounting and worrying about bills is something that I have to do in real life. In my fantasy game I want to be a snubfighter pilot working to free the galaxy from tyranny, not a moisture farmer worrying the bank will foreclose and repossess the vaporators.

On the other hand, I have played with groups where they PCs will take everything not nailed down from the dungeon, and then take the doors of the hinges and pull the moulding off the walls.


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