# JollyDoc's Shackled City-NPC's Only



## JollyDoc (Apr 11, 2004)

Greetings loyal readers and long time fans of the Bright Axes and their adventures in Cauldron.  This thread is being started at the suggestion of several readers.  What I intend to do with it is discuss behind-the-scenes details of the game for those who are interested.  Be warned, there are sure to be spoilers detailed here, so if you are not one who likes skipping to the end of the book, you should probably go no further.  BTW, this includes my players.  You are not welcome here!  So, I encourage commentary, feedback, suggestions, praise, criticism, whatever!  Hopefully this will clear up some space on the actual SH as well, but ongoing commentary is of course encouraged there as well, especially since my players won't be posting regularly on this thread.  Enjoy!


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## Nightingale 7 (Apr 11, 2004)

Ok,I'm first.Pretty fitting that I should take the first post,since I was the one to propose this thread's creation.The thing that has be nagging me is about the Soul Pillars adventure.While Wee Jas is a cold,uncaring deity who might encourage undead,I don't believe that even the most misguided Kelemvorite would condone with the things happening in the church "behind the scenes".I was thinking that maybe they are Velsharoonians,or more appropriately for your campaign JD,Kiaransaleens masquerading as Kelemvorites.Some links with the Cult of the Dragons might be appropriate,what with the dracolich et all.
So?Spill the beans JD,we're in a non-PC infected thread.


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## JollyDoc (Apr 12, 2004)

You bring up a good point, and at this moment, I'm considering having the Kelemvorites of Cauldron be a disaffected group of Velsharoonians who have only been paying lip service to Kelemvor up to this point.  I may have some of the Cagewrights be affiliated with the Cult of the Dragon, and certainly some are going to be allies of Entropy and/or followers of Kiaransalee.  I'd be interested to hear other's opinions on this


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## Mortepierre (Apr 12, 2004)

Nightingale 7 said:
			
		

> While Wee Jas is a cold,uncaring deity who might encourage undead,I don't believe that even the most misguided Kelemvorite would condone with the things happening in the church "behind the scenes".




As a GH long-time DM, I can tell you that Wee Jas would probably not condone (nor encourage) undead creation. While she has Death in her portfolio, and her LE clerics can command undeads, she (usually) doesn't authorize them to create any and even to command them they need her authorization. This was made crystal clear in the 2nd edition.

Needless to say, I am speaking of the Wee Jas appearing in the GH setting here. Not the cheap clone they included in the core rules of the 3rd edition <grumbles>

JollyDoc, one thing I have found very useful when something like this happens is the *Heretic* feat (described in the Book of the Righteous, p.254-255). Basically, it allows you to generate NPC priests of G- or N-aligned deities that "deviate" from the norm and still get their spells.


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## Nightingale 7 (Apr 12, 2004)

Well,I'm not a Greyhawk follower,so I'm going from Wee-Jas's description in the PHB,and the actions of her followers in the adventure.I get the vibes that she's kind of middle-ground aligned on the undead-thing.Like,she doesn't want many of them,because they disrupt the life-to-death flow,but if some are needed,ok,they're just tools.
Now that I'm thinking,she kinda resembles Jergal in her attitude,so maybe they are some heavy-handed Jergalites.
This fits well,since Jergal is the servant/mentor of Kelemvor,so their churches should have a close relationship.
Maybe the Jergalites came to the originally Kelemvorite clergy,to help them,and in time they corrupted Kelemvor's teachings.

On the other hand you may have to rework the High Priestess.Since Wee Jas is the goddess of death AND magic,it fits having her as a 
Mystic Theurge ,but Kelemvor's only connection to magic is his affair with Mystra  .In that context Velsharoon fits better as he's a necromancer,and he could easily have MyThs in his clergy.


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## LordVyreth (Apr 12, 2004)

I didn't get a chance to read Zenith Trajectory until very recently, so I just recently learned the whole thing with the dwarf father was a set-up.  Did the party ever catch on to this?  And what do you think they'll end up doing with Celeste?  It must be rough being the DM and worrying what to do if the PCs seriously investigate or attack her.  

And I'm still upset you killed the drow babe off!


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## JollyDoc (Apr 13, 2004)

Mortepierre said:
			
		

> JollyDoc, one thing I have found very useful when something like this happens is the *Heretic* feat (described in the Book of the Righteous, p.254-255). Basically, it allows you to generate NPC priests of G- or N-aligned deities that "deviate" from the norm and still get their spells.




Do you mean the BoED?  If not, I haven't heard of this book, and I need to look into it.  Sounds like an interesting idea.


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## JollyDoc (Apr 13, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> I didn't get a chance to read Zenith Trajectory until very recently, so I just recently learned the whole thing with the dwarf father was a set-up.  Did the party ever catch on to this?  And what do you think they'll end up doing with Celeste?  It must be rough being the DM and worrying what to do if the PCs seriously investigate or attack her.
> 
> And I'm still upset you killed the drow babe off!




When they rescued Zenith, Ajax was using See Invis. at the time, so he noted the Carceri sign on the dwarf, and correctly identified it, but the party did not detect the ruse with his "father."  Therefore, they don't know about Celeste's part in this.  In fact, they worked with her again during the Demonskar Legacy.  

Do not fear, Shensen still lives.  Her home was just destroyed.  She'll be back.


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## Mortepierre (Apr 13, 2004)

JollyDoc said:
			
		

> Do you mean the BoED?  If not, I haven't heard of this book, and I need to look into it.  Sounds like an interesting idea.




Nope, the Book of the Righteous from Green Ronin. It was published for D&D v3.0 but adapting it to v3.5 is a breeze. In short, it gives you full details of a pantheon ready to be "plugged in" the world/setting of your choice.

5 stars out of 5 in the ENWorld review, no matter who did the review.

The very fact that you haven't heard of it astounds me. Then again, you have spent many months in the Underdark and the Astral Plane


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## JollyDoc (Apr 14, 2004)

Mortepierre said:
			
		

> Nope, the Book of the Righteous from Green Ronin. It was published for D&D v3.0 but adapting it to v3.5 is a breeze. In short, it gives you full details of a pantheon ready to be "plugged in" the world/setting of your choice.
> 
> 5 stars out of 5 in the ENWorld review, no matter who did the review.
> 
> The very fact that you haven't heard of it astounds me. Then again, you have spent many months in the Underdark and the Astral Plane





I do actually like alot of Green Ronin's material, and now that you mention the source, I may in fact know of what you speak, but I think Gfunk actually has the book (big surprise), so I'll check with him.  Thanks for the info.


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## JollyDoc (Apr 24, 2004)

After a bit more thought and research, I have decided to make the bad guys of the Kelemvor church Velsharoon worshipers.  This seems to fit on many levels.  First, their domains include Death and Magic, which Wee Jas also has.  Also, undead figure prominently in their religion, and though Kelemvor abhors undeath, Velsharoon considers Kelemvor one of his primary adversaries, and as an up and coming power, he may just have his eye on Kelelmvor's portfolio.  Also, Velsharoon's followers have ties with the Cult of the Dragon, specifically the Wearer's of Purple.  This provides and excellent link with the Black Egg linker.  So, Velsharoon worshipers have infiltrated the church of Kelemvor in Cauldron and are working with the Cagewrights as well as the Cult of the Dragon.


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## Neverwinter Knight (Apr 27, 2004)

JD, what are your plans for Caine? Are you going to let the party search for him or will you be bringing him back yourself, maybe at some crucial moment later in the campaign? 
Both plots look appealing, although the first does have a "The Search for Spock" kinda feel to it.


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## Ilmyryn (Jun 1, 2004)

JD, or other DMs running this adventure. How did you handle Zenith trajectory. Specifically they give no info on how to get to Bhal-Hamtugn, other than an entrance to the underdark. Is the party just supposed to wander around the underdark until they run into this place? I know my players will balk at this prospect. I have thought of having celeste provide a map or some such, but that seems a bit too convenient.

Any thoughts?


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## LordVyreth (Jun 1, 2004)

Jolly, have you read up on Lords of Oblivion yet, and when will the group start playing it?  Or have they already?  What are your comments, if any, on how you think the encounters will go?  The first chapter with the thieves' guild looks laughably easy, but the second chapter is almost guaranteed to be a TPK if the party goes a hack and slash route.  You know the players better than any of us; how do you think they'll handle it.  Also, what did you think of the final battle?  I thought it looked pretty easy, and I don't think Lord Valantru (or however his name is spelled,) will last a round unless he beats a vast majority of the group's initiative, which is sad for what was the main villain up to this point.  Hard to believe we have another three adventures after this one, isn't it?


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## bbarrington (Jun 2, 2004)

Ilmyryn said:
			
		

> JD, or other DMs running this adventure. How did you handle Zenith trajectory. Specifically they give no info on how to get to Bhal-Hamtugn, other than an entrance to the underdark. Is the party just supposed to wander around the underdark until they run into this place? I know my players will balk at this prospect. I have thought of having celeste provide a map or some such, but that seems a bit too convenient.
> 
> Any thoughts?




Pg.43 of Dungeon 102 "The Fissure" states its ten miles to Bhal-Hamatugn. I just played it as a straight shot from the fissure to the temple.


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## gfunk (Jun 2, 2004)

Ilmyryn said:
			
		

> JD, or other DMs running this adventure. How did you handle Zenith trajectory. Specifically they give no info on how to get to Bhal-Hamtugn, other than an entrance to the underdark.
> Any thoughts?




I don't know how it was handled in the module, but in our campaign, JollyDoc used Jarrod the crazed Bard as the info source for the location of the Kuo-Toan city.  Either that or we simply made a bee-line towards the city upon entering the Underdark.



			
				LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Jolly, have you read up on Lords of Oblivion yet, and when will the group start playing it? Or have they already?




They have started Lords according to JollyDoc.  The first encounter was a breeze, though an important antagonist escaped.  I haven't read the module though, so I can't say how the final encounter might go.

I plan on stopping by to hang with the fellas in the last week in June so if they are running the final encounter AND JollyDoc lets me participate, then I guarantee multiple fatalities.

Starting with Rusty . . . to put an end to his accursed _revifications_!


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## cidak (Jun 2, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Lord Valantru .._snip_.., which is sad for what was the main villain up to this point.  Hard to believe we have another three adventures after this one, isn't it?




He certainly has been the public face.  However we are still to see the head of the temple of Velsharoon, Embril Aloustinai who is by now a very high level Mystic Theurge, the Arch Demon Adimarchus from Test of the Smoking Eye as well as other *senior* Cagewrights, not to mention Hookface the powerful Red Dragon, who's son the Party encountered in Zenith Trajectory.  So I think there will be enough BBEG's out there to keep the party busy. .

I must admit that this series gets better and better as it goes on.  Keep rolling.


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## LordVyreth (Jun 10, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> The first chapter with the thieves' guild looks laughably easy, but the second chapter is almost guaranteed to be a TPK if the party goes a hack and slash route.




Well, so much for that theory, I guess.  I'm surprised they handled what was essentially an EL 20 encounter so well, though, despite the element of surprise.  That's got to help them catch up with the levels.  Will you be adding some of the survivors to the final battle, Jolly?  Also, are you actively looking for new players to replace Gfunk and Wathros' player?


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## JollyDoc (Jun 10, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Well, so much for that theory, I guess.  I'm surprised they handled what was essentially an EL 20 encounter so well, though, despite the element of surprise.  That's got to help them catch up with the levels.  Will you be adding some of the survivors to the final battle, Jolly?  Also, are you actively looking for new players to replace Gfunk and Wathros' player?





Sorry for the delays in answering some of these questions guys.  I must have missed the posts.  Gfunk answered the question about Bhal-Hamatugn.  Crazy Jered knew the way, and drew them a rough map.  After that, it was just a matter of calculating how long it would take them and checking for random encounters along the way.

I was pretty surprised about the outcome with the LoO's.  However, the group came in through the observatory, instead of the front door.  They basically stumbled into the ballroom and the meeting.  As Joachim mentioned, the party was buffed, anticipating some sort of battle.  The LoO's, on the other hand, were not, as no alarm had been raised.  Also, as it states in the module, not all of the adversaries there are itching for a fight.  Mhad, for instance, stayed out of it completely, only sending her dread wraith in, but thanks to Grimm, and his force effect weapon, that was no challenge.  Also, the confined space worked against the villains.  Dalthon managed to toss off a maximized fireball into the room and killed the necromance before he even reached initiative.  He damaged the priest of Cyric so badly, that he spent the rest of the battle desperately trying to heal himself, and ultimately ended up leaping out a window to escape.  Also, Kiko was unbeatable.  He had stone skin cast on him, and his AC was up around 35 or so.  His reflex saves are great, and he has evasion, so few spells could touch him, plus he has SR of 24 now.  That and he has improved trip.  He was a melee nightmare.  Thifirane teleported out with her shield guardian and the ogre mage, who was down, but regenerating.  Mhad escaped on her own.  Thifirane and the ogre mage will be showing up at Vhalantru's place.  As for Vhalantru himself, I may change the template that he has.  Gfunk has given me some ideas that tie in with the Liche Queen story hour, namely the possibility of using one of those templates, or the pseudonatural one so that I can bring Entropy's role into the story a bit more.  We'll see.

As for players, we are having a problem with that.  Lee/Wathros left in a huff a few month's ago, and frankly, that was probably for the best.  We replaced him with Ricky/Kiko, a great player.  G is another issue.  Hard to replace.  We had Eddie/Dalthon, and his brother Fred/Kylon (whom you haven't seen yet in the SH), but home/personal issues with them have prevented them from playing regularly.  So, currently we have Richard/Grimm, Brian/Rusty, Chris/Tilly and Ricky/Kiko.  Rusty has gained a cohort, so that will help.  We have one more player in the wings, a guy who used to play with us awhile back, but had to quit because he was working on a master's degree.  He finishes that in August, and has said he plans to rejoin us.  Also, we hope (strong hint) that Gfunk may find time to join us as he can.


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## LordVyreth (Jun 11, 2004)

JollyDoc said:
			
		

> Sorry for the delays in answering some of these questions guys.  I must have missed the posts.  Gfunk answered the question about Bhal-Hamatugn.  Crazy Jered knew the way, and drew them a rough map.  After that, it was just a matter of calculating how long it would take them and checking for random encounters along the way.
> 
> I was pretty surprised about the outcome with the LoO's.  However, the group came in through the observatory, instead of the front door.  They basically stumbled into the ballroom and the meeting.  As Joachim mentioned, the party was buffed, anticipating some sort of battle.  The LoO's, on the other hand, were not, as no alarm had been raised.  Also, as it states in the module, not all of the adversaries there are itching for a fight.  Mhad, for instance, stayed out of it completely, only sending her dread wraith in, but thanks to Grimm, and his force effect weapon, that was no challenge.  Also, the confined space worked against the villains.  Dalthon managed to toss off a maximized fireball into the room and killed the necromance before he even reached initiative.  He damaged the priest of Cyric so badly, that he spent the rest of the battle desperately trying to heal himself, and ultimately ended up leaping out a window to escape.  Also, Kiko was unbeatable.  He had stone skin cast on him, and his AC was up around 35 or so.  His reflex saves are great, and he has evasion, so few spells could touch him, plus he has SR of 24 now.  That and he has improved trip.  He was a melee nightmare.  Thifirane teleported out with her shield guardian and the ogre mage, who was down, but regenerating.  Mhad escaped on her own.  Thifirane and the ogre mage will be showing up at Vhalantru's place.  As for Vhalantru himself, I may change the template that he has.  Gfunk has given me some ideas that tie in with the Liche Queen story hour, namely the possibility of using one of those templates, or the pseudonatural one so that I can bring Entropy's role into the story a bit more.  We'll see.
> 
> As for players, we are having a problem with that.  Lee/Wathros left in a huff a few month's ago, and frankly, that was probably for the best.  We replaced him with Ricky/Kiko, a great player.  G is another issue.  Hard to replace.  We had Eddie/Dalthon, and his brother Fred/Kylon (whom you haven't seen yet in the SH), but home/personal issues with them have prevented them from playing regularly.  So, currently we have Richard/Grimm, Brian/Rusty, Chris/Tilly and Ricky/Kiko.  Rusty has gained a cohort, so that will help.  We have one more player in the wings, a guy who used to play with us awhile back, but had to quit because he was working on a master's degree.  He finishes that in August, and has said he plans to rejoin us.  Also, we hope (strong hint) that Gfunk may find time to join us as he can.




Well, with help, Vhalantru will probably be a lot harder, especially if he can hang back and concentrate on using his eye rays and antimagic cone, instead of that still "float up and bite them" tactic that the module recommends.  

I'm sorry to hear that Lee's exit was so unpleasant.  I had a few players departures in my current campaign (the one I'm doing the Story Hour on,) as well, and they were always hard to deal with, both in-game and out.  What made him so mad, if it's not too personal a question?  We might be able to form a "DMs with disgruntled players" support group!


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## JollyDoc (Jun 12, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Well, with help, Vhalantru will probably be a lot harder, especially if he can hang back and concentrate on using his eye rays and antimagic cone, instead of that still "float up and bite them" tactic that the module recommends.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that Lee's exit was so unpleasant.  I had a few players departures in my current campaign (the one I'm doing the Story Hour on,) as well, and they were always hard to deal with, both in-game and out.  What made him so mad, if it's not too personal a question?  We might be able to form a "DMs with disgruntled players" support group!




Yeah, I think with the support of Thifirane, et al, Vhalantru might be more of a challenge, especially if Thifirane can split the group with a few well placed walls of force, which I believe are not negated by the anti-magic cone.

Hmmm...where do I begin with Lee?  Lee is a good guy, but he has a tough time playing in a group setting.  He gets easily frustrated, and that rapidly turns into abuse.  When he comes up with a plan for his character, he gets pissed off if it doesn't work out the way he wanted, and then starts sulking ("Well I guess my character just won't do anything.").  Most of the time, you have to stop the game and find multiple rules to prove to him why his plan won't work, and he has often responded with, "Well, you're the DM.  You can change the rules if you want."  The final straw was when Wathros died this last time.  He did not want Wathros raised, because it would result in level loss.  Instead, he opted to bring in a new character.  We have long had a house rule that if a new character is brought in, it will be one level below the lowest level party member.  This is to discourage people from randomly discarding characters so that they can bring a newer, more buffed one, complete with all that starting gold higher level PC's get.  Well, Lee didn't like that rule, and thought he should get to come in at the same level as everyone else.  When he couldn't get his way, he quit.  C'est la vie.


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## Nightingale 7 (Jun 12, 2004)

Well,it's sad to hear this was a bad break-up,but Lee seems to have the telltale signs of a problem player.I don't remember well,but was it him that played Hor'ahun in the CotSQ adventure?His characters have a history of being somewhat underpowered.Even Wathros seemed to do little compared to what a mid-high level druid is capable of.


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## JollyDoc (Jun 13, 2004)

Nightingale 7 said:
			
		

> Well,it's sad to hear this was a bad break-up,but Lee seems to have the telltale signs of a problem player.I don't remember well,but was it him that played Hor'ahun in the CotSQ adventure?His characters have a history of being somewhat underpowered.Even Wathros seemed to do little compared to what a mid-high level druid is capable of.




No, Brian played Hor'ahun, and usually pretty effectively.  Lee played Noir...the paladin/blackguard who died all the time.


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## LordVyreth (Jun 13, 2004)

JollyDoc said:
			
		

> No, Brian played Hor'ahun, and usually pretty effectively.  Lee played Noir...the paladin/blackguard who died all the time.




Well THAT explains a lot.  I always thought that she was played by this board's Lela.  How will this effect the old Lich Queen adventure?  Though w/ Gfunk gone, I don't know what the plan for that is anyway.  And who played the psionic warrior?  I assume that Joachim played that Zental cleric, since he only showed up when Joachim the character couldn't be part of the group.


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## Nightingale 7 (Jun 13, 2004)

Oh well,I stand corrected.Though I did get the impression from the story hour that Hor'ahun was not very effective.(Not that I blame him.Playing a finesse-fighter in that undead-chocked dungeon crawl is no cakewalk!)
I guess it must have been his bad luck,getting killed in the beginning of the BBEG fights:First,succumbing to the poison before reaching Irae,and then getting annihilated by Nalavara.Isn't he the guy who plays Tilly in the Cauldron storyline?A penchant for finesse-fighters,I see.


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## JollyDoc (Jun 13, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Well THAT explains a lot.  I always thought that she was played by this board's Lela.  How will this effect the old Lich Queen adventure?  Though w/ Gfunk gone, I don't know what the plan for that is anyway.  And who played the psionic warrior?  I assume that Joachim played that Zental cleric, since he only showed up when Joachim the character couldn't be part of the group.




If only we could be so fortunate as to have Lela at out table!

Well, Gfunk is going to be wrapping up the Lich Queen story in a very satisfactory way soon.  I'm sure he will give Noir everything she deserves!

Hor'ahun was the psychic warrior played by Brian, aka Rusty in the Shackled City game, and yes Joachim/Richard played Amal, the priest of Bane, who incidentally is going on to much greater things once the Liche Queen arc is complete.


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## JollyDoc (Jun 13, 2004)

Nightingale 7 said:
			
		

> Oh well,I stand corrected.Though I did get the impression from the story hour that Hor'ahun was not very effective.(Not that I blame him.Playing a finesse-fighter in that undead-chocked dungeon crawl is no cakewalk!)
> I guess it must have been his bad luck,getting killed in the beginning of the BBEG fights:First,succumbing to the poison before reaching Irae,and then getting annihilated by Nalavara.Isn't he the guy who plays Tilly in the Cauldron storyline?A penchant for finesse-fighters,I see.




If you want to really see times when Hor'ahun shined, you should probably review Gfunks' City of the Spider Queen.  As a psychic warrior, he was a bit handicapped in Liche Queen, where he to deal with primarily other scions and undead.

Actually, Tilly is played by Chris, who didn't participate in CoTSQ or Liche Queen.


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## Nightingale 7 (Jun 13, 2004)

The thing is,that I have read the CotSQ story-hour,but my memory fails me.(bad,bad memory!  ).Maybe I should reread it,and pry my eyes away from Joachim and Entropy's powergaming moves.


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## LordVyreth (Jun 13, 2004)

Hmm, I noticed you were skipping a few things in the beginning of the Soul Pillar plotline.  The half-dragon was absent (which made some sense since they skipped his dad bad in Zenith Trajectory,) and that bit in the temple with that dead adventurer from the rival party.  Were you planning on bringing either back into the plot later?


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## JollyDoc (Jun 13, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Hmm, I noticed you were skipping a few things in the beginning of the Soul Pillar plotline.  The half-dragon was absent (which made some sense since they skipped his dad bad in Zenith Trajectory,) and that bit in the temple with that dead adventurer from the rival party.  Were you planning on bringing either back into the plot later?




Ah, my friend, you are skipping ahead.  Both of the things you mention should be appearing in Joachim's next update, and both have a big impact.  Recovering the body of the dead Storm Blade will help reintroduce that plot line.  The half-dragon catches up to our friends at a most inopportune time.


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## Mathew_Freeman (Jun 14, 2004)

In a group I play in, we fairly recently got rid of a player that was not liked, and it's amazing how much the game picked up as a result. So my advice is - just get on and do it!


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## JollyDoc (Jun 15, 2004)

Tallarn said:
			
		

> In a group I play in, we fairly recently got rid of a player that was not liked, and it's amazing how much the game picked up as a result. So my advice is - just get on and do it!




Yes, we have noticed the same, and we have had to take this step in the past with other troublesome players.  No need to let the game and the group suffer because of one dissatisfied player.


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## LordVyreth (Jun 24, 2004)

Well, the fact that Rusty gains a cohort pretty much answered my question from the other board.  Have you played since the last update here?  Did you reach Lord Vhalantru yet?

Oh, and how long do you play per session, and how much do you accomplish?  I play bi-weekly, and sometimes we have a hard time getting through two fights in a session, though I blame a lot of that on procrastination and difficulties associated with figuring out what we'll eat.


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## JollyDoc (Jun 25, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Well, the fact that Rusty gains a cohort pretty much answered my question from the other board.  Have you played since the last update here?  Did you reach Lord Vhalantru yet?
> 
> Oh, and how long do you play per session, and how much do you accomplish?  I play bi-weekly, and sometimes we have a hard time getting through two fights in a session, though I blame a lot of that on procrastination and difficulties associated with figuring out what we'll eat.




We didn't play last week due to Father's Day.  At our last game, the group had reached Vhalantru's manor, and dealt with his guards and the nagas, but they have not found the entrance to Oblivion yet.  That will come this Sunday.

We usually play weekly, on Sundays.  Our official start time is 4pm, but most people end up dragging in by 5.  Our usual stop time is between 10 and 11.  How much we accomplish is variable.  I'm lucky in that we play at my house, and my wife very graciously volunteers to cook for us on Sundays.  However, there is a lot of extraneous talk that goes on, and during certain sports seasons, Chris, Rich and Gfunk want the TV on, albeit with the sound turned down, so that can distract at times.  Overall, we can usually make it through several small encounters, or 1-2 big ones.


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## gfunk (Jun 27, 2004)

Just to give you all a general update, I will be helping JollyDoc play Vhalantru and his baddies for the finale of _Oblivion_ today.  We are currently tossing around the idea of slapping on revenant, Tlak'ith or Kr'y'izoth templates on some of Vhalantru's minions via Entropy's _claw of the revenancer _or _crown of corruption_.

The big bad Alienist herself may make an appearance.  Of course, the idea is to just scare the party a little, not totally kill them. ;0


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## LordVyreth (Jul 4, 2004)

Okay, I can use some advice.  My group is just about to disintegrate now that three of the oldest members will soon be moving to another state, and taking another potential two due to car ride and location links as well.  So, in order to keep our 2+ year campaign alive, we all want to try to move it to online.  However, I've never played a game like that before, let alone run it.  I'm pretty sure that a few posters here are experienced in this area, so I'd like some of their advice on the subject.  My advice-seeking thread is located here.  I appreciate any help you can give me!


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## JDragon (Aug 17, 2004)

Had a quick question...

What was the name of the spell that Rusty has been using to raise people if he gets to them with in a round/short time?  Also what book is it from?

I have just started this and had no problems so far, but I'm sure I'l be back soon looking for ideas and suggestions on stuff.

Thanks


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## gfunk (Aug 18, 2004)

The spell is Revifiy from the Minatures Handbook.  It is a 5th level cleric spell, must be cast within 1 round of the character's death, and has a 5,000 gp material component.  It works just like Raise Dead (range: touch) except that revified spellcasters are not at risk of losing memorized spells or unused slots.


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## Lela (Aug 18, 2004)

JD, have you run across this thread?

You may or not be able to use it but, what the hay, I figured you'd at least like a look.


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## Neverwinter Knight (Oct 27, 2004)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Neverwinter Knight
> Perfect! Very nice combat description. Tell us, JollyDoc, which of your players saw Lord Orbious Vhalantru for what he really was (or at least had some suspicions before the fight) ?
> 
> ...



OK, JollyDoc, now gimme the dirt.  

What did your PCs guess or their players know and how did you handle it?


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## JollyDoc (Oct 28, 2004)

Neverwinter Knight said:
			
		

> OK, JollyDoc, now gimme the dirt.
> 
> What did your PCs guess or their players know and how did you handle it?





Well, they had pretty much figured out that Vhalantru was rotten ever since the riot in front of city hall.  The situation with him adopting Terrym, coupled with the fact that Terrym was taken away from them by a beholder, only strenghthened that position.  Still, none of them actually figured out HE was the beholder until after they encountered him in Oblivion.  I didn't discourage their suspicions of him, but neither confirmed or denied anything either.


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## Neverwinter Knight (Oct 28, 2004)

JollyDoc said:
			
		

> Well, they had pretty much figured out that Vhalantru was rotten ever since the riot in front of city hall.  The situation with him adopting Terrym, coupled with the fact that Terrym was taken away from them by a beholder, only strenghthened that position.  Still, none of them actually figured out HE was the beholder until after they encountered him in Oblivion.  I didn't discourage their suspicions of him, but neither confirmed or denied anything either.



 It's a nice trick in the story - and all the references like "Orbious" or the hero "statues" make it really obvious looking back. Have the stone-to-fleshed any old heros?


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## JollyDoc (Oct 28, 2004)

Neverwinter Knight said:
			
		

> It's a nice trick in the story - and all the references like "Orbious" or the hero "statues" make it really obvious looking back. Have the stone-to-fleshed any old heros?




They strongly considered it, because they reasoned out that they weren't "true" statues.  They were also starting to put two and two together at this point.  Even more so when they saw the lay out of Oblivion.  They didn't have the ability to undue the enchantment on the statues, and then the events of Foundation in Flames took place and they kind of lost their chance.


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## Hammerhead (Oct 29, 2004)

The guy's name is Vhalantru and there's some doubt that he's evil? I mean, the only thing more obvious would be a black goatee and a diabolical laugh.


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## JollyDoc (Oct 30, 2004)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> The guy's name is Vhalantru and there's some doubt that he's evil? I mean, the only thing more obvious would be a black goatee and a diabolical laugh.




And his first name is Orbius...not exactly elven, is it?


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## LordVyreth (Nov 27, 2004)

Hey, here's a question about how Foundation of Flame was handled.  Specifically, how did the battles with the mobs go?  I wanted to try using the subtype in my game for one of my homebrewed monsters, but the subtype as written seemed horribly unbalanced to me.  Did you play them as written, and if so, did it seem especially easy or hard for the party to handle them?  If you want, you can also add your opinions to my thread in the D&D Rules forum about this very subject.


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## gfunk (Nov 27, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> . . . but the subtype as written seemed horribly unbalanced to me. Did you play them as written, and if so, did it seem especially easy or hard for the party to handle them?



It seemed like a cool idea but it did not work well in our game.  The swarm mechanic was silly for several reasons:

1.  It is not possible to stop the "swarm" in an intelligent manner (e.g. simply charming the swarm's leader(s) and convincing them to stop the others).

2.  It becomes difficult to apply mercy on the swarm when they grapple you and then start inflicting lethal damage.

3.  The saving throws of the swarm are ridiculously high.

4.  The fast healing aspect of the swarm seems kind of cool, but is unbelievably stupid in play.  I think they describe it as "more people joining in the mob."

Personally I didn't like it at all and I think virtually all of us agree.


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## JollyDoc (Nov 28, 2004)

Gfunk's points are on target.  The party tried to be non-lethal, first with a diplomacy check, with a roll of natural 20, which still failed, then with a wall of fire to stop them (they ran right thru), then with a web spell (also failed), then with subdual damage, then finally right into lethal.  The DC check was 35 for Diplomacy, with a -10 penalty for being in combat (DC 45) or -20 if lethal damage inflicted (DC 45).  Their Will save was +25, which made charming all but impossible.  I think most parties would have had to resort to lethal to survive this encounter.


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## LordVyreth (Nov 28, 2004)

How did it seem when lethal means were used?  Considering the adventure had them at a CR 9 each, did it seem to match the difficulty?  What about the logistics?  Were the players okay with how it worked, or were they annoyed that their physical attacks only affected the mob itself, not individuals in the mob, and that swarms of essentially commoners, albeit ones with exceptionally high ability scores, were not instantly incinerated by fireballs and the like?


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## gfunk (Nov 28, 2004)

1. It really sucked when lethal means were used because the players are a force of weal in Cauldron.  They have no wish to kill innocents, even if they are a part of crazed mob.

 2. CR 9 wasn't too bad.  The mobs basically function as giants with an inability to fly or throw boulders, albeit with outstanding saves.  The only problem was that the players were pretty depleted towards the end, making this encounter much tougher than it should have been.

 3. The players hated that their physical attacks/spells could only affect the mob as a unit for reasons that you mentioned.


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## JollyDoc (Nov 28, 2004)

gfunk said:
			
		

> 3. The players hated that their physical attacks/spells could only affect the mob as a unit for reasons that you mentioned.




However, on the plus side, this aspect soothed the PC's conscience somewhat, since they weren't actually killing townsfolk so much as dispersing the mob.


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## LordVyreth (Nov 28, 2004)

Well, the mob I planned on using was actually the byproduct of an undead-producing monster, so hacking apart zombies will not have the moral problems or the slight reassurance of "dispersing" a mob versus individual kills that the civilian mobs did.  Did anyone here every play Castlevania: Symphony of the Night?  If not, I'll explain what the creature I'm talking about it.  I made the Granfaloon from that game into a high CR monster, and I plan on creating a new version with new special powers, the Epic-level abomination features, and thus a much, much higher CR.  However, the old CR 16 Granfaloon I've been using so far lacks the offensive edge to really challenge the party until after its shield has been removed, at which point the creature is nearly gone anyway.  Thus, I've been trying to figure out a way to make the storms of zombies that it generates into a threat, and while the mob subtype looks like the answer, some of the problems with the way it's handled need to be resolved before I could use it.


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## LordVyreth (Nov 30, 2004)

Hmm, was that a little too focussed on my monster and campaign for this topic?  Or maybe a little too obscure?  I'm not sure how many D&D gamers are also video gamers, so I suppose I might have gotten off track there.

At any rate, I am curious about how the mob would work when the morality of killing the mob itself is irrelevant (like the zombie mob of my example.)  Plus, since I have heard you've had some dissatisfaction with the end result, do you have any suggestions on how to "fix" the subtype?


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## JollyDoc (Dec 14, 2004)

Ok loyal readers, I need your advice.  The Bright Axes are rapidly approaching the conclusion of our tale...the grand climax with Adimarchus himself.  The problem is this:  I've just been re-reading Adimarchus' stats, and I discovered that he can cast Blasphemy once per day as a 30th level caster.  This means that he will instantly kill any non-good  creature who is under 21st level within a 40 foot radius of himself.   As our party now stands, that would leave Grimm to fight him...that's it.  Input?


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## Mortepierre (Dec 14, 2004)

Replace it by _Unholy Blight_ at will. No less lethal over time but at least it won't kill everyone (but Grimm) at once


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## PrimeAvatar (Dec 14, 2004)

JollyDoc said:
			
		

> Ok loyal readers, I need your advice.  The Bright Axes are rapidly approaching the conclusion of our tale...the grand climax with Adimarchus himself.  The problem is this:  I've just been re-reading Adimarchus' stats, and I discovered that he can cast Blasphemy once per day as a 30th level caster.  This means that he will instantly kill any non-good  creature who is under 21st level within a 40 foot radius of himself.   As our party now stands, that would leave Grimm to fight him...that's it.  Input?




JollyDoc,

I'm a loyal reader of your Story Hour (just ran through the whole thing in a week!) and I have to say that you are doing a stand-up job!  I don't know the exact composition of the party at this point, but here are a couple of suggestions that might be helpful to your dilemma:

Make party understand that as a Demon Prince/Powerful Evil Outsider, Adimarchus WILL be able to cast Blasphemy.  This will allow them to prepare with spells like 1) Spell Resistance, 2) Greater Spell Immunity, or even 3)Silence.  I think the designers (in a lot of the Shackled City modules) have failed to fully incorporate the new and improved changes to Blasphemy.


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## Hammerhead (Dec 14, 2004)

Maybe a Quickened Unholy Blight? Because I hope that some demon prince has better things to be doing than hitting the heroes with 5d8 points of damage on his action.


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## PrimeAvatar (Dec 15, 2004)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> Maybe a Quickened Unholy Blight?




This is one good option as I agree that standard Unholy Blight at will is kind of weak.  Another option is to replace Blasphemy with another 7th level spell from the Book of Vile Darkness.  I happen to have it here, so here are some possibilities:

7th level spells

BESTOW GREATER CURSE [Transumtation]
Touch, Permanent, Will Negates, One ability score is reduced to 1

WRETCHED BLIGHT [Evocation, Evil]
Medium range (20 ft burst), Fort Partial, 1d8/level (non-evil only) [15d8 max] + 1d4 rounds of stun [Successful Fort save reduces damage by half and negates stunning]

RAPTURE OF RAPTURE [Conjuration, Corrupt]
Touch (can touch up to 1 living creature/level in consecutive rounds), Fort Half, 6d6 damage, 1 rnd stun, 1d6/rnd until healing spell is cast


Wretched Blight 1/day seems about right.  Grimm won't be affected but it should stun a good percentage of the party and put them in some serious hurt.


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## JollyDoc (Dec 15, 2004)

PrimeAvatar said:
			
		

> WRETCHED BLIGHT [Evocation, Evil]
> Medium range (20 ft burst), Fort Partial, 1d8/level (non-evil only) [15d8 max] + 1d4 rounds of stun [Successful Fort save reduces damage by half and negates stunning]
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the input everyone, and thanks for your encouraging words PA!  I actually like the idea of Wretched Blight 1/day alot!  Adimarchus can already cast Unholy Blight, but as Hammerhead pointed out, it is very underpowered compared to Blasphemy.  Adimarchus can meat out enough hurt without his added in spell-like abilities, but I think the WB option is more humane on the whole.  Thanks again!


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## SolidSnake (Dec 15, 2004)

*Official Ruling*

Sorry to barge in at the end of the discussion, but I found this on paizo's messageboard.  Apparently James Jacobs (Dungeon mag Editor) thought of the same problem and has offered the following as advice:



> So then. As written in the last adventure in the Adventure Path series, "Asylum," Adimarchus's spell-like abilities function at caster level 30. This is too high.
> 
> Reduce Adimarchus's caster level for his spell-like abilities down to 20; this brings him back in line with all of the other demon lords detailed in Book of Vile Darkness, and prevents him from going berserk with spells like blasphemy (which, at caster level 30, instantly kills parties of 20th level or lower with no save).
> 
> I heartilly apologize to any parties who may have been crushed into an early dirt nap by an overly inflated demon prince's caster level.




Hope it can be of some use to you!


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## ltclnlbrain (Dec 15, 2004)

JD, if you check out the paizo.com message boards, James Jacobs recently made a post addressing this issue.  He said to reduce Adimarchus' caster level to 20th instead of 30th for all of his spell-like abilities.  Hope this helps.


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## JollyDoc (Dec 15, 2004)

ltclnlbrain said:
			
		

> JD, if you check out the paizo.com message boards, James Jacobs recently made a post addressing this issue.  He said to reduce Adimarchus' caster level to 20th instead of 30th for all of his spell-like abilities.  Hope this helps.




Yes, I read that earlier.  Thanks for the notification.  Still debating on taking this approach versus using Wretched Blight.


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