# 6 Star Wars DVD releases coming this fall.



## Dark Jezter (Jun 6, 2005)

Apologies to Henry for creating a Star Wars thread, but considering that there are only a few of them that are still active, I though it'd be okay to post this one.



			
				theforce.net said:
			
		

> According to sources for ComingSoon.Net, we'll be seeing 6 different Star Wars DVD releases on November 1st of this year. It looks like you can buy the final movie separately, buy the prequels together or buy all six films in a complete set. Whether or not this is the "definitive release" of the complete saga is unknown, but we can sure hope for a pile of new extras. Here's the list we were given:
> 
> _Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (Widescreen) 11/1
> Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (Full Screen) 11/1
> ...




Source: http://www.theforce.net/topstory/story/6_Star_Wars_DVDs_in_the_Fall_93105.asp

Since I already have Episodes I, II, IV, V, and VI on DVD, the only one of these I'll probably be picking up is Episode III.  I wonder if the Episode I-III DVD box set will contain any new features that weren't included with the previous DVD releases, or if they'll just be the same movies sold together (considering that the both of prequel DVDs already have their own 2nd disc devoted to extras).

Also, I wonder when Clone Wars Volume 2 will be out on DVD.  I'm surprised it wasn't on the list.


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## JoeGKushner (Jun 6, 2005)

Makes me glad I didn't purchase the IV-VI boxed set that's been out a while now. I new that double dipping opportunities were too good to pass.

Now if only Kill Bill would come out in that collector's edition I know they're waiting on.


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## LightPhoenix (Jun 6, 2005)

JoeGKushner said:
			
		

> Now if only Kill Bill would come out in that collector's edition I know they're waiting on.




[THREADJACK] I watched Kill Bill last night and was wondering the same thing.  [/THREADJACK]

Since I have no real desire to own Ep. I or II, and I did get the box set for IV-VI, I'll probably getting just Ep. III.  That said, I'm all for options.  If you already have the original box set, you can just get the prequel box set.  Or, if you only like one movie, you can just get the one.  I don't really see this as double dipping.  In fact, I see the Kill Bill set as double dipping more than this, since the DVDs have been out a while now.


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## Dark Jezter (Jun 6, 2005)

I wonder if in 2007, we'll be seeing a 6-movie Star Wars high-definition DVD box set to celebrate Star Wars 30th Anniversary (if HDDVD is out by then, that is).

Should be interesting to see what happens.


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## reveal (Jun 6, 2005)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> I wonder if in 2007, we'll be seeing a 6-movie Star Wars high-definition DVD box set to celebrate Star Wars 30th Anniversary (if HDDVD is out by then, that is).
> 
> Should be interesting to see what happens.




In 2007, all actors will be digitally replaced with Ewoks so Lucas can finally attain his "true vision" of Star Wars.


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## Dark Jezter (Jun 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> In 2007, all actors will be digitally replaced with Ewoks so Lucas can finally attain his "true vision" of Star Wars.



 You know, I almost hope that comes true.  It'd be _fun_ watching all of the rabid Lucas-haters on the web have a simultanous brain hemmorage.


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## reveal (Jun 6, 2005)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> You know, I almost hope that comes true.  It'd be _fun_ watching all of the rabid Lucas-haters on the web have a simultanous brain hemmorage.




*ahem* F*** George Lucas and the tauntaun he rode in on!


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## KenM (Jun 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> In 2007, all actors will be digitally replaced with Ewoks so Lucas can finally attain his "true vision" of Star Wars.




  You sir, are totally wrong about this. It will be Gungans, not Ewoks.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 6, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> You sir, are totally wrong about this. It will be Gungans, not Ewoks.



 You, sir, are completely and utterly wrong.

It will be a mix of Gungans and Ewoks known as Gungwoks. Fear them. Fear them much.


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## Kai Lord (Jun 6, 2005)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> I wonder if in 2007, we'll be seeing a 6-movie Star Wars high-definition DVD box set to celebrate Star Wars 30th Anniversary (if HDDVD is out by then, that is).



You forgot that they'll also be in 3D.    Which may not even be that far off.  Lucas announced at that little 3D panel he attended with James Cameron and Robert Rodriguez that the original Star Wars will be converted to 3D and released theatrically in 2007 (the 30th anniversary) with each succeeding film to follow each year after.  That should be interesting.

As far as the DVD's go, I really don't care about box sets that are nothing more than the movies all in one box.  I'm glad I've already gotten to enjoy the original trilogy box set and the first two episodes on DVD.  I'll be picking up Episode III and adding it to the collection.

Though a box set with this fan art is certainly tempting: http://www.rixgrafix.com/

Absolutely amazing.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 7, 2005)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Though a box set with this fan art is certainly tempting: http://www.rixgrafix.com/
> 
> Absolutely amazing.




Woah...just...woah.


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## Fenris (Jun 7, 2005)

Yeah, I am waiting for the one big pack to come out, but then I don't have any of the movies on DVD yet.

I did buy both sets of the orginal trilogy on VHS when they came out. My wife didn't understand why I needed both sets. I am very happy now that I have both the original versions of the movies and the new versions, since you can't get the originals anymore!


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## reveal (Jun 7, 2005)

*Ankh-Morpork Guard* and *KenM*, you are both wrong. It will be Ewoks. George Lucas will not give up his beloved Ewoks. Lucas _is_ an Ewok, for gawd's sake.

Separated at birth?


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## reveal (Jun 7, 2005)

*double post*


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## Dark Jezter (Jun 7, 2005)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Though a box set with this fan art is certainly tempting: http://www.rixgrafix.com/
> 
> Absolutely amazing.




_*low whistle*_

Now that's some impressive fan art right there.


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## mojo1701 (Jun 7, 2005)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Though a box set with this fan art is certainly tempting: http://www.rixgrafix.com/
> 
> Absolutely amazing.




Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

And I'll say it again:

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Jun 7, 2005)

I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissent here: looks a little too blue.  

Not that I'm not impressed, nonetheless.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 7, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissent here: looks a little too blue.
> 
> Not that I'm not impressed, nonetheless.



 True...but I like blue so it works for me.


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## Testament (Jun 7, 2005)

Wow.  Just wow to that art.

I think a 2007 ultra-super-deluxe special edition is a given.


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## Datt (Jun 7, 2005)

I haven't bought any of the prequels on DVD knowing this day would come.  I already own the box set of Iv-VI so that will complete my collection.  And I really can't think of anything Lucas could add in that would make me want to go and buy another set of DVDs in 2007.  Even if they are HDDVD.


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## wingsandsword (Jun 7, 2005)

I'm probably just going to buy the Ep. III disc, I just picked up Ep I and the first season of Clone Wars only a week ago!  I'm also wondering about Season 2 of Clone Wars.

If, big if, Lucas makes yet another Double Extra Special Edition change, then I might buy them if Han goes back to shooting first, he inserts the Anakin/Greedo streetfight back into Episode I, and he digitally fixes the rank insignia costuming blooper in RotJ (he's gotta be able to do that digitally by now!).


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## ForceUser (Jun 8, 2005)

I would buy the 6-DVD set, but one thing bothers me so much that I couldn't possibly own the re-released Episode IV.

*Han shot first, dammit.*


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## KenM (Jun 8, 2005)

Datt said:
			
		

> I really can't think of anything Lucas could add in that would make me want to go and buy another set of DVDs in 2007.  Even if they are HDDVD.





  How about if GL puts out the ultimate set in 2007 with 4-6 as they orginally were in the theater with all the special edtion stuff taken out, to preserve the classic look of them.


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## KenM (Jun 8, 2005)

ForceUser said:
			
		

> I would buy the 6-DVD set, but one thing bothers me so much that I couldn't possibly own the re-released Episode IV.
> 
> *Han shot first, dammit.*




 Accually on the DVD relase of IV last year they change it so Han/ Greedo both shoot at aboththe same time. Its better then the theactical cut, IMO.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 8, 2005)

I have no shame...  I will buy the whole collection in the 6 disc widescreen screen set.  (and I have the 5 that have been released on widescreen already.  )


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 8, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Yeah, I am waiting for the one big pack to come out, but then I don't have any of the movies on DVD yet.



Yep.  I've been waiting for this since they announced they were making Ep. 1.


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## BiggusGeekus (Jun 8, 2005)

Datt said:
			
		

> I haven't bought any of the prequels on DVD knowing this day would come.  I already own the box set of Iv-VI so that will complete my collection.  And I really can't think of anything Lucas could add in that would make me want to go and buy another set of DVDs in 2007.  Even if they are HDDVD.




I personally suspect Lucas will release an HDDVD edition, wait a couple of years, and then release an HDDVD edition that doesn't have any of the edits (ie Han will shoot first).  Then he'll wait a bit more and release an HDDVD edition without the edits, but with commentary.

That should suck the last money out of our wallets.


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## ForceUser (Jun 8, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Accually on the DVD relase of IV last year they change it so Han/ Greedo both shoot at aboththe same time. Its better then the theactical cut, IMO.



Bah. Han shot, Greedo died. End of story!


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## KenM (Jun 8, 2005)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> I personally suspect Lucas will release an HDDVD edition, wait a couple of years, and then release an HDDVD edition that doesn't have any of the edits (ie Han will shoot first).  Then he'll wait a bit more and release an HDDVD edition without the edits, but with commentary.
> 
> That should suck the last money out of our wallets.





  By then, there will be a new format to replace DVD, so Lucas can do it all over again.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 8, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> By then, there will be a new format to replace DVD, so Lucas can do it all over again.




Yay? or not so yay?  :\


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## Arnwyn (Jun 8, 2005)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Also, I wonder when Clone Wars Volume 2 will be out on DVD.  I'm surprised it wasn't on the list.



Yeah, I'm pretty pissed off about that. Hell, it should have been out on DVD _before_ Ep III hit theatres, since IMO Clone Wars Vol. 2 is pretty much required viewing to get even half the enjoyment out of Ep 3 that I did...

I'll just pick up Ep III widescreen.


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## Welverin (Jun 9, 2005)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Since I have no real desire to own Ep. I or II, and I did get the box set for IV-VI, I'll probably getting just Ep. III.  That said, I'm all for options.  If you already have the original box set, you can just get the prequel box set.  Or, if you only like one movie, you can just get the one.  I don't really see this as double dipping.  In fact, I see the Kill Bill set as double dipping more than this, since the DVDs have been out a while now.




If it's like the Ep1&2 box set and LotR EE box set (that people foolishly waited for), that are nothing but the original dvds in a special slip case, it definitely can't be considered double dipping.

Taking the timing into consideration I'd bet this is exactly what it is, and they'll wait a while before releasing a real box set with new features.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 9, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> If it's like the Ep1&2 box set and LotR EE box set (that people foolishly waited for), that are nothing but the original dvds in a special slip case, it definitely can't be considered double dipping.




I wonder if Lucas will allow you to order the big slipcase like they allowed for the extended edition LotR box.  (Actually it was free if I remember right, besides like 1.50 for shipping.)


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## Welverin (Jun 9, 2005)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I wonder if Lucas will allow you to order the big slipcase like they allowed for the extended edition LotR box.  (Actually it was free if I remember right, besides like 1.50 for shipping.)




I hope so, I like that New Line (or WETA or whoever) did that, also makes me laugh at all the suckers who waited for it and got nothing for their long wait.

Wasn't it $3, not that it matters.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 9, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> Wasn't it $3, not that it matters.




Something like that...  I remember being, "Wow!  That's it?"


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## Orius (Jun 9, 2005)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> You know, I almost hope that comes true.  It'd be _fun_ watching all of the rabid Lucas-haters on the web have a simultanous brain hemmorage.




Yeah, I enjoy seeing the trauma of many simultaneously "raped childhoods" too.


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## Kai Lord (Jun 9, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> Yeah, I enjoy seeing the trauma of many simultaneously "raped childhoods" too.



It really is amusing.  I was pretty upset back in the day that some of Lucas' changes hurt the films, but after seeing the extent some "fans" take their anger I just want to laugh and distance myself from all of it.  I prefer the original Han scene, but the ANH:SE just blows away the original IMO.  Ditto the new ROTJ:SE (and after ROTS I *love* the new Anakin ghost).  ESB is about a wash, that whole shuttle docking sequence I can do without.  But really its still the same movie, just tweaked here and there.

And I love it when people try to play the "purist" card.  I was talking to a guy at work the other day; he was complaining about some scenes in ROTS and then went off about how Lucas has gone insane since he started doing the Special Editions.  I told him I pretty much like everything Lucas has done in the past 10 years (90% of the OT revisions, parts of TPM, a lot of AOTC, and almost all of ROTS).  He then said, "Oh well I'm just a purist."  "If that were the case, " I said, "then you'd refuse to ever watch any print of the original Star Wars that has 'Episode IV A New Hope' in the opening scroll."  "What?  What do you mean?"  Keep in mind the guy I'm speaking to is 24 years old and was first introduced to the trilogy on VHS.  So I explained how Lucas didn't add it until the 1981 rerelease after ESB was dubbed "Episode V" and that the "revisions" have been going on since almost the beginning.  He didn't have anything more to say after that.  

Maybe George Lucas should do a skit on Saturday Night Live where he says "Are you obsessed with Han shooting first?  Well.......GET A LIFE!"


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## mojo1701 (Jun 9, 2005)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> It really is amusing.  I was pretty upset back in the day that some of Lucas' changes hurt the films, but after seeing the extent some "fans" take their anger I just want to laugh and distance myself from all of it.  I prefer the original Han scene, but the ANH:SE just blows away the original IMO.  Ditto the new ROTJ:SE (and after ROTS I *love* the new Anakin ghost).  ESB is about a wash, that whole shuttle docking sequence I can do without.  But really its still the same movie, just tweaked here and there.
> 
> And I love it when people try to play the "purist" card.  I was talking to a guy at work the other day; he was complaining about some scenes in ROTS and then went off about how Lucas has gone insane since he started doing the Special Editions.  I told him I pretty much like everything Lucas has done in the past 10 years (90% of the OT revisions, parts of TPM, a lot of AOTC, and almost all of ROTS).  He then said, "Oh well I'm just a purist."  "If that were the case, " I said, "then you'd refuse to ever watch any print of the original Star Wars that has 'Episode IV A New Hope' in the opening scroll."  "What?  What do you mean?"  Keep in mind the guy I'm speaking to is 24 years old and was first introduced to the trilogy on VHS.  So I explained how Lucas didn't add it until the 1981 rerelease after ESB was dubbed "Episode V" and that the "revisions" have been going on since almost the beginning.  He didn't have anything more to say after that.
> 
> Maybe George Lucas should do a skit on Saturday Night Live where he says "Are you obsessed with Han shooting first?  Well.......GET A LIFE!"




Well said. I applaud you, sir.


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## Orius (Jun 12, 2005)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> It really is amusing.  I was pretty upset back in the day that some of Lucas' changes hurt the films, but after seeing the extent some "fans" take their anger I just want to laugh and distance myself from all of it.  I prefer the original Han scene, but the ANH:SE just blows away the original IMO.  Ditto the new ROTJ:SE (and after ROTS I *love* the new Anakin ghost).  ESB is about a wash, that whole shuttle docking sequence I can do without.  But really its still the same movie, just tweaked here and there.




I know what you mean.  There's really only two things about the SE I don't like: Greedo shooting first and Vader's goofy shuttle line near the end of Empire.  Otherwise, I don't mind.  Besides theyare _his_ films and he wants to screw around with them, that's his right. 

Star Wars SE has some good effects changes anyway.  The establishing shot of Obi-Wan's house is a good example.  Jabba the Hutt wasn't a bad addition either, the weakest part was that the Jabba graphics were too fluid and had an ugly muddy gray color (I believe it was revamped in the DVD release).  The chase scene on the Death Star where Han runs into about 50 stormtroopers, and then quickly runs away, instead of about 6 stormtroopers in the original is also another good change.  And he put the scene with Luke meeting Biggs back in.

Empire SE had the weakest changes.  I liked the open air look of Bespin, but I could live without seeing more of the wampa and the shuttle docking sequence.  

I actually prefer the SE version of Jedi.  The musical sequence in Jabba's palace looks better without the trio of stiff muppets (plus we get to see more of Oola!).  I liked the bantha herd in the desert.  And the ending showing the whole galaxy celebrating the death of the Emperor was a good touch too.



> And I love it when people try to play the "purist" card.  [snip]  He then said, "Oh well I'm just a purist."  "If that were the case, " I said, "then you'd refuse to ever watch any print of the original Star Wars that has 'Episode IV A New Hope' in the opening scroll."  "What?  What do you mean?"  Keep in mind the guy I'm speaking to is 24 years old and was first introduced to the trilogy on VHS.  So I explained how Lucas didn't add it until the 1981 rerelease after ESB was dubbed "Episode V" and that the "revisions" have been going on since almost the beginning.  He didn't have anything more to say after that.




Heh heh.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Jun 12, 2005)

> Jabba the Hutt wasn't a bad addition either, the weakest part was that the Jabba graphics were too fluid and had an ugly muddy gray color (I believe it was revamped in the DVD release).




I don't know, I really hate that scene, to the point where sometimes I skip it when I watch the DVD. I was pretty amazed when I first heard they were placing that scene in the SE, and was impressed when I heard about all the CGI that went into making it. But storywise, I found it to be a really dumb scene once I saw it. 

In the scene before you have Greedo saying how Jabba's been looking for him and how righteously pissed at him Jabba is for dumping his freight - foreshadowing two movies ahead that Jabba is a scary badass. When we finally get to see him in the flesh in ROTJ he's as scary as we thought, tossing employees to the Rancor and enslaving Leia. 

But in the SE, you have the same scene play out with Greedo (subtly altered, heh heh), and then all of a sudden Jabba finds him. Gee, what does Jabba need bounty hunters for when he can just hang out by the Falcon and wait for Han to show up? 

But that's not even the lamest part - then you have the incredibly dumb "tail-stepping" scene.  Now, I understand _why_ they had to do it that way (because of how Han moved around the stand-in actor), but come on. Would the scary badass Jabba of ROTJ let some arrogant smuggler that he's already mad at *step on him*? In front of witnesses, no less? Did we really need a scene with Jabba that's played for laughs? Did it add anything at all to the plot? 

If you've got a scene that ruins the suspense of a character that you're setting up for film three, plus he's played totally out of character, PLUS it doesn't add anything to the story, then there's a place for that scene: it's called the cutting room floor.

It just struck me as the triumph of special effects over story. For the record, I didn't really have a problem with much else in the SE (Greedo shooting first excepted). But it signaled a trend that I found manifested even moreso in the prequels, this whole idea of "let's do it just because we can".

Lucas needs to print this out and have it stapled to his forehead, so he can see it 24/7:
*
JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SOMETHING DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT A GOOD IDEA.*


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 12, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> Lucas needs to print this out and have it stapled to his forehead, so he can see it 24/7:
> *
> JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SOMETHING DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT A GOOD IDEA.*




And he COULD have completely redone the lightsaber duels in the original trilogy like many people cry for, but he doesn't. In fact, there are a thousand things he could have changed that he didn't.

Lucas knows this, but again, these are HIS movies, and he feels certain things should be in there. We can disagree all we want, but that doesn't change the fact that he has, and deserves, the final say.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 12, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> But that's not even the lamest part - then you have the incredibly dumb "tail-stepping" scene.  Now, I understand _why_ they had to do it that way (because of how Han moved around the stand-in actor), but come on. Would the scary badass Jabba of ROTJ let some arrogant smuggler that he's already mad at *step on him*? In front of witnesses, no less? Did we really need a scene with Jabba that's played for laughs? Did it add anything at all to the plot?




The scene has never worked for me...  I dislike it more than the Greedo stuff in all honesty, especially the part where it looks like Han pointed his finger right into Jabba.  Personally I always thought it should have been a holographic projection, and this was firmly engraved into my brain after seeing Sidious’ moving projector in the Clone Wars series.


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## Arnwyn (Jun 14, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Lucas knows this, but again, these are HIS movies, and he feels certain things should be in there. We can disagree all we want, but that doesn't change the fact that he has, and deserves, the final say.



And THAT doesn't change the fact that:


			
				Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SOMETHING DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT A GOOD IDEA.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 15, 2005)

arnwyn said:
			
		

> And THAT doesn't change the fact that:




But he doesn't change things "just because he can". With every single change, Lucas has given a reason. They were never handwaves of "Why don't we do this?". Even the much maligned Greedo and Han scene has an explanation.

You don't have to agree with the reasons, but Lucas doesn't do anything "Just because he can".


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Jun 15, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> But he doesn't change things "just because he can". With every single change, Lucas has given a reason. They were never handwaves of "Why don't we do this?". Even the much maligned Greedo and Han scene has an explanation.
> 
> You don't have to agree with the reasons, but Lucas doesn't do anything "Just because he can".



 He can offer up all the rationales he wants - that doesn't make them good ideas.  And half of his reasons smack of trying to legitimize his screw-ups after the fact.

I understand why he felt it was necessary (to him, anyway) to make Greedo shoot first, but why oh why did he add that Jabba scene?  Has he ever given any explanation beyond "it was something I wanted to do in 1977"?


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 15, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> Has he ever given any explanation beyond "it was something I wanted to do in 1977"?




Why should he? Its a valid reason. The simple truth is that he COULDN'T get everything he wanted into the movie due to the technology limitations then. That wasn't a "just because I can" thing, that was a "I've wanted this to be in there since the beginning, but was never able to until now".

What's so horrible about that?


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Jun 15, 2005)

> that was a "I've wanted this to be in there since the beginning, but was never able to until now"




But _why_ did he want it in there?  What is so special about that scene?  Of all the scenes you could rescue from the cutting-room floor (such as Luke and Biggs on Tatooine), why rescue that useless, lame-o scene for any reason other than "ILM can make a digital Jabba now"?

If he wants to add harmless mumbo-jumbo like splashy musical numbers in Jabba's palace, fine, doesn't ruin my enjoyment.  But a useless scene that makes characters in a serious conflict (serious enough for Han to kill over, anyway) look silly is a travesty. 



> What's so horrible about that?




Because it lends credence to Lucas-bashers who claim he's lost the ability to tell a story.  For the record, I'm not bothered by 90% of the stuff haters complain about the prequels, but something like that Jabba scene made me think they might be onto something.  Dropping a scene like that from your final cut is Filmmaking 101.  Hell, dropping a scene like that from your final script draft before you even start up the cameras is Screenwriting 101.

I've always respected your reasoned opinions on Lucas A-MG, but you're taking the wrong bullet for him here.  Adding in cinematic pointlessness when you're an 800 lb. gorilla like Lucas with no one to say no to you *is *a "just because I can" thing.  He can come up with all the bogus rationales he wants, but that dog won't hunt.  I'm not saying he's an idiot, I'm just saying he made a blunder.


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## wingsandsword (Jun 15, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Why should he? Its a valid reason. The simple truth is that he COULDN'T get everything he wanted into the movie due to the technology limitations then. That wasn't a "just because I can" thing, that was a "I've wanted this to be in there since the beginning, but was never able to until now".
> 
> What's so horrible about that?



If he wanted Greedo to shoot first, he could have done that in the 70's.  If he wanted Luke to scream when he falls down the shaft in Cloud City, he could have done that too (amusingly, he undid that in the 2004 DVD release, so he always wanted that but not now).  If he wanted a closing shot of the worlds of the Galaxy, including Coruscant and Naboo, he could have done that in the 70's.

Little changes to add things that weren't possible in the 70's and just enhance what was already there don't bother me that much, what bothers me is making changes that actually change the character of events (Han Solo going from being a quick gunslinger who was willing to blow away a bounty hunter in a preemptive strike, to only surviving because Greedo can't hit a stationary target less than a meter away) are what irritates people.

Just because George Lucas has the legal right to change his movies, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.  It's just like the controversy over colorization in the 80's.  George Lucas wanted to create a modern myth, and he succeeded.  Unfortunately, myths belong to the culture as a whole, and when he changes the movies, he runs the chance of conflicting with those myths.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 15, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> But _why_ did he want it in there?




Ask Lucas. No one can answer that but him.



> What is so special about that scene?  Of all the scenes you could rescue from the cutting-room floor (such as Luke and Biggs on Tatooine), why rescue that useless, lame-o scene for any reason other than "ILM can make a digital Jabba now"?
> 
> If he wants to add harmless mumbo-jumbo like splashy musical numbers in Jabba's palace, fine, doesn't ruin my enjoyment.  But a useless scene that makes characters in a serious conflict (serious enough for Han to kill over, anyway) look silly is a travesty.




Its not useless. It introduces Jabba, and while I do like the wait until Jedi to really see him we had before the SE, that doesn't make it useless. We also see that Jabba isn't just some murdering thug crime lord and actually LIKES Han. Ironically enough, there is a character development in Jabba through the movies as he gets annoyed with Han for not paying him off.

Those are reasons more than "ILM can make a digital Jabba now". Not only that, but he OBVIOUSLY had other reasons than that, as Lucas wanted the scene in the movie BEFORE ILM could do it. But, again, you'll have to ask him for the specifics.



> Because it lends credence to Lucas-bashers who claim he's lost the ability to tell a story.  For the record, I'm not bothered by 90% of the stuff haters complain about the prequels, but something like that Jabba scene made me think they might be onto something.  Dropping a scene like that from your final cut is Filmmaking 101.  Hell, dropping a scene like that from your final script draft before you even start up the cameras is Screenwriting 101.




Lucas has never been one to follow the mainstream ideas of what should be done. He does things HIS way because he feels that's how HIS movies should be told. Filmmaking 101 can't tell you that, neither can Screenwriting 101.

If Lucas had lost his ability to tell a story, there wouldn't be a huge fanbase that is STILL growing today. He just doesn't tell a story in the same way that everyone else does. Lucas tells his story the way he wants to tell it. Its just like writing a book in a different style. Not everyone's going to like it, but some people are. In the case of Star Wars, though there are many that yell and scream about Lucas' lack of ability to tell a story, this doesn't hold up when you really look at things and see that he tells a story just fine.



> I've always respected your reasoned opinions on Lucas A-MG,




Now, now, let's keep this clean. We're not going to have any of this respect here on the internet. 



> He can come up with all the bogus rationales he wants, but that dog won't hunt.




In other words, you've already made up your mind and no matter what Lucas says, you won't believe him. Why even comment on it then?



			
				wingandsword said:
			
		

> If he wanted Greedo to shoot first, he could have done that in the 70's. If he wanted Luke to scream when he falls down the shaft in Cloud City, he could have done that too (amusingly, he undid that in the 2004 DVD release, so he always wanted that but not now). If he wanted a closing shot of the worlds of the Galaxy, including Coruscant and Naboo, he could have done that in the 70's




Those changes are different from the Jabba scene, though, which was what I was referring to. For the Jabba scene, Lucas has ALWAYS said its what he wanted to originally put in. For the others, they can be chalked up to other reasons.

Greedo shooting first changed because Lucas looked back on things and felt that it made Han look like a cold blooded killer. I don't really agree on this one, but he's not just doing it for a random "I can, so I will" reason.

I can actually understand putting in Luke's scream, as the scene is almost empty and silent otherwise. Of course, it was a horrible scream effect and Lucas proved he's not above changing things a second time. Obviously, he thought it was bad, too.

Coruscant was put into the Special Edition release to give us a nice little teaser before Episode I, and Naboo is on the DVDs as a nice connection to the Prequels. Honestly, both of them work just fine.

But, again, the ONLY thing Lucas continually stated he wanted to do from the beginning but couldn't was the Jabba scene.



> Just because George Lucas has the legal right to change his movies, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.




Who gets to judge what is 'right' and 'wrong' when it comes to his movies? I'm sorry, but these ARE his and I can completely understand the need to fix things and touch them up. I constantly go back to older pieces of art I've worked on and change or alter them because I either wasn't able to get something just the way I wanted it or I just don't think its working anymore.

YES, he has created a myth that modern culture has embraced, but they are still HIS movies and HIS work. I CAN understand that people don't agree with some of the things he's done, but you saying what he's doing isn't right is worthless. Lucas' opinion is really the one that counts, not any of ours, and I think that IS the way things should be.


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## wingsandsword (Jun 15, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Who gets to judge what is 'right' and 'wrong' when it comes to his movies? I'm sorry, but these ARE his and I can completely understand the need to fix things and touch them up. I constantly go back to older pieces of art I've worked on and change or alter them because I either wasn't able to get something just the way I wanted it or I just don't think its working anymore.



They are not exclusively his.  They might be by legal right, but the law (copyright law included) has absolutely *nothing* to do with "right" and "wrong'", they have to do with what elected officials have decided are rules for running society.  A law (including copyright) can be "wrong", an action that is perfectly legal, even one supported by a law passed by an elected democratic government, can be a very bad thing (watch Episode I for a reminder of that).



> YES, he has created a myth that modern culture has embraced, but they are still HIS movies and HIS work. I CAN understand that people don't agree with some of the things he's done, but you saying what he's doing isn't right is worthless. Lucas' opinion is really the one that counts, not any of ours, and I think that IS the way things should be.



Star Wars is a part of the popular culture, collective consciousness, and like he originally wanted, it is a modern legend.  That gives the people of that culture, as a collective entity, the right to pass judgement on attempts to change that legend, as I see it.  Not in a legal, binding sense certainly, but in a "history will be the judge" sense.

I think we just have radically different opinions here.  He may have a certain legal right to change things, but to be honest, that just means he can, not that he should.  His opinion only means that he can legally do it, that's it.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 15, 2005)

I'm not talking about any legal right...you are.

What I'm talking about is George Lucas' right AS AN ARTIST to make, change, and perfect his work as HE sees fit. Not because the law says so, but because it is his creation. No matter how important this may have become to the popular culture of the day, it is HIS creation and his vision. His artwork, essentially.

Like it or not, many artists are extreme perfectionists and have a habit of continually touching things up and changing them. Lucas is no exception to this, and perhaps the reason I don't have problems with his reasons for changing things is I find myself doing the EXACT SAME THINGS with my own art. No, I don't have the exposure Star Wars does, but why should that matter? Obviously, that's a rhetorical question, but you can probably guess my answer to that.

Lucas does not change things just because he can. HE has made these changes because HE FEELS that he SHOULD to present HIS work as HE FEELS it should be presented. That has nothing to do with legal right. Tell me right now what's wrong with an artist wanting to present their work in the way they feel it should be presented, because in the end, that's all that Lucas is doing.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Jun 15, 2005)

> Tell me right now what's wrong with an artist wanting to present their work in the way they feel it should be presented, because in the end, that's all that Lucas is doing.




You're absolutely right. There is nothing wrong, either morally, ethically or legally, with presenting your work as you like it. However, in order to show it to the public, you have to be able to endure critical scrutiny, which is what I'm doing here. And if you don't like what the public has to say, tough, don't show it to them. Lucas has never had a problem with this. I'm sure he reads every negative review and messageboard flame and cries all the way to the bank.

Now, back to the Hutt.

One thing you should remember: Lucas didn't know he was going to get to make a trilogy when he was making ANH. There's probably gobs of things he might have put in there or left out if he'd known then what he knows now. I like to think that once Star Wars's success was clear and a trilogy would be made of it, he decided to make lemonade out of lemons and dust off Jabba. I'll hand it to him, the way they tease about him in the Cantina with Greedo and Han in ANH, the fear that grips Han of capture in ESB, all leading up to the big reveal of Jabba in ROTJ - all masterfully done, even if it was all just a happy accident because Lucas couldn't put him in the original. They set up Jabba really well in those movies as this unseen evil who sent scary triggermen like Boba Fett around the galaxy. Now I'm sorry to harp on it, but the Jabba we see in ANH SE is nothing like this. 



> Ironically enough, there is a character development in Jabba through the movies as he gets annoyed with Han for not paying him off.




Huh? Han's supposed to be a hunted man from the minute we first meet him. There's nothing else in ANH or ESB to suggest that Jabba's losing patience - he didn't send Boba Fett after him to deliver a stern lecture.


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## wingsandsword (Jun 15, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> You're absolutely right. There is nothing wrong, either morally, ethically or legally, with presenting your work as you like it. However, in order to show it to the public, you have to be able to endure critical scrutiny, which is what I'm doing here. And if you don't like what the public has to say, tough, don't show it to them. Lucas has never had a problem with this. I'm sure he reads every negative review and messageboard flame and cries all the way to the bank.



Thank you for putting it that way.  Yes, as an artist he can revise his works, but he better be prepared for public and critical scrutiny.  He is making a work for public consumption, and the public will be the judge of the work.  Making lots of money?  Sure!  Irritating (but not enraging) much of his fan base with the changes? Yes!  Possibly slightly weakening its status as a modern legend by constantly making minor but notable revisions to important events or scenes? Yup.



> Huh? Han's supposed to be a hunted man from the minute we first meet him. There's nothing else in ANH or ESB to suggest that Jabba's losing patience - he didn't send Boba Fett after him to deliver a stern lecture.



Exactly, Greedo was there to bring him in, and Han felt the need to kill him to get out of there.  He didn't set it to stun, he blasted Greedo to bits at point-blank range, then (in the SE) had to talk fast on his feet when he realized Jabba himself was there with Boba Fett to come after him, and word had gotten out that Solo had blasted the last (chump) bounty hunter to come after him.  Han talked his way out of Jabba's ire by getting an extension on his debts (way to roll a natural 20 on that Diplomacy check there).  For all we know, walking on a Hutt's tail could be analgous to a shoulder massage to a human; Jabba's eyes bulged, but yours might if somebody started working on your back.  Solo just went from Wanted, to temporarily not wanted, to delayed while running around with the Rebels and not getting back to pay off Jabba, and having to deal with Jabba being really upset that Han had owed him the money for several years and not repaid him.


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## Kai Lord (Jun 16, 2005)

Hey Ankh-Morpork Guard,

Didn't you hear?  Revenge of the Sith made Star Wars and George Lucas cool again.  Consequently, Lucas-bashers are no longer "purists" but are now officially "whiners."  So there isn't any more need to defend him with such conviction.  Just thought you should know...


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 16, 2005)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Hey Ankh-Morpork Guard,
> 
> Didn't you hear?  Revenge of the Sith made Star Wars and George Lucas cool again.  Consequently, Lucas-bashers are no longer "purists" but are now officially "whiners."  So there isn't any more need to defend him with such conviction.  Just thought you should know...



 But...but...but what will I do now?!?!


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## Kai Lord (Jun 16, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> But...but...but what will I do now?!?!



Just sit back and chuckle as you would upon witnessing a small child cutely mispronounce a common word.


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## MacMathan (Jun 16, 2005)

Simply put: Joss Whedon is my master now.

http://pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20050510


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## mojo1701 (Jun 16, 2005)

MacMathan said:
			
		

> Simply put: Joss Whedon is my master now.
> 
> http://pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20050510




Then the Emperor has already won.


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## Faraer (Jun 16, 2005)

Rick McCallum has said that the six-movie release won't be this year: the subject of this thread is an erroneous rumour.

I'm entirely with Ankh-Morpork Guard above. Not personally liking some of these changes is one thing; projecting that into George committing some sin, or not knowing what he's doing, or doing things just because he can, is senseless, and smacks of just the kind of holding on to things whose error _Star Wars_ speaks against so profoundly.







			
				wingsandsword said:
			
		

> Making lots of money?  Sure!



How do you spin the changes made for the DVD release, which George paid for from his own pocket and weren't even publicized, as 'doing it for the money'?







> Irritating (but not enraging) much of his fan base with the changes? Yes!  Possibly slightly weakening its status as a modern legend by constantly making minor but notable revisions to important events or scenes? Yup.



Get some perspective here. The number of people who are even more than passingly aware of these changes is a tiny percentage of the people who watch the films. The number who don't like them is even more insignificant.


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## glass (Jun 17, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> How about if GL puts out the ultimate set in 2007 with 4-6 as they orginally were in the theater with all the special edtion stuff taken out, to preserve the classic look of them.




To be the 'ultimate', I think it should have all the versions in there.


glass.


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## mojo1701 (Jun 17, 2005)

Faraer said:
			
		

> The number of people who are even more than passingly aware of these changes is a tiny percentage of the people who watch the films. The number who don't like them is even more insignificant.




So true. I talk with a lot of people and they really don't care about the changes, aside from Greedo's bad shooting. It's not the story, but just the quality, but I always say it was Greedo's itchy finger while it was pointed away.


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## Dark Jezter (Jul 8, 2005)

Update:  According to Theforce.net, the Revenge of the Sith DVD will be out on November 8, not November 1 like stated in the previous article.


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